Throwbacks with Matt Leinart & Jerry Ferrara - The Jail Blazers, Michael Jordan, Game 7 vs. Kobe and Shaq with Bonzi Wells

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

NBA great Bonzi Wells joins the show to talk the new Netflix documentary Untold: Jail Blazers. Bonzi discusses the legendary Portland Trail Blazers team with Scottie Pippen, Damon Stoudemire, Rasheed Wallace and more. Plus, he reveals how helped the doc come together, what it was like playing with his idol Scottie, how he met Michael Jordan at an impromptu card game, what it was like guarding Kobe Bryant in his prime and more.   And, on the 20th anniversary of the 2006 NFL Draft, Matt Leinart recalls what draft day was like and what led to him getting that faithful call as the No. 10 overall pick to the Arizona Cardinals and the guys pick their favorite sports team nicknames of all-time.   New episodes of Throwbacks drop every Thursday. Make sure you’re subscribed on YouTube and following on all podcast platforms. Also, make sure you’re locked in on social @ThrowbacksShow on all platforms for highlight moments, bonus content, and to engage with the guys & the Throwbacks community. (http://throwbacksshow.com/)      00:00 Show open  03:45 Matt Leinart recaps the 2006 NFL Draft  06:50 Matt almost went to the Saints  07:35 Matt’s secret call from Norm Chow before the draft  09:04 Al Davis vetoed picking Matt at No. 7  17:11 Bonzi Wells joins the show  22:30 Playing with Scottie Pippen  25:00 The Blazers vs. Portland   27:27 Blazers vs. Lakers 2000 Western Conference Finals   29:50 Kobe Bryant in the GOAT convo  32:35 Playing poker with Michael Jordan  35:00 Comparing Bonzi’s Generation vs. Now  38:45 Bonzi’s Three Toughest Players to Guard  40:55 Rasheed Wallace is misunderstood  45:50 Bonzi’s infamous fans quote  52:50 Greatest Team nicknames of All-time   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I got a call at three in the morning. We had practiced next morning at like 10. He was like, hey, man, the game is on. You coming or not? Yes, I jumped up. I ran three blocks to the rich culture. I've never met him before, right? So they took me around to the resident side or whatever.

And I remember I knocked on the door. I was nervous. I was just trying to get myself together. And I remember I knocked on the door and George answered it. He looked at me, gave me some depth. He said, B, Dub, what's up? And he gave me a hug, right? Wow.

When he hugged me, I smelled him. And I said, damn, he's supposed. I'm like success. All right, welcome to another episode of Throwbacks, Ferrar and Liner. That's our radio handle. Do us a favor. I love saying that. Go to the socials at Throwback Show on everything.

Give us a follow. We've been lighten it up on social media. Lighten it up on social. Shout out to Throwbacks page in our social team, man. This week, dude, I'm very excited for this week, okay? We have joining us, one of my favorite players. because I'm such a basketball head and that was like,

this is like my peak basketball watching. You start in 2000, speaking of a throwback, we have from the Portland Trailblazers, Bonzie Wells coming on the show. He's here to talk to us out now on Netflix, untold jailblazers. Matt, I mean, you're Lakers. We'll talk to them about it,

but famously that that series is the one that got away. Yeah, man, I was like, I was 16, 17, 17 years old in that run, that Kobe and Shaq run, right? I remember I watched those playoff games start to finish every single game. It was the Kings, right? It was like, they had some great matchups, but the Blazers were tough, man, with Sheed and Bonzie and Damon.

And having Bonzie, like, when you look back and talk into him, you look back, he's probably one of the more underrated players of that run, right? Like even like when he went to Memphis, like, he had some really, really good years. He was a great defender. He was a great role player for that team as he sort of, obviously, then he became more of a, like a bigger player for them. But, yeah, man, like, it brought back a lot of memories. Obviously, the game seven, everybody talks about everybody.

Kobe, to Shaq! But he breaks down, right, the series. He breaks down kind of that fourth quarter, which I thought was really interesting. So, I mean, dude, Bonsie Wells, man, what a stud. Yeah, and, you know, a little spoiler from our interview. He has one of the best Michael Jordan stories I've ever heard. The best Michael Jordan story I've ever heard. You have to listen to it.

And then stick around. After we talk to Bonsie, Matt and I, we're going to break down our all-time nicknames for a professional team. Jail Blazers, obviously, would be one of them. If you watch that documentary, man, you kind of look, you'll feel differently about the jailblazers name. I feel like once you're done with the doc. They got a bad rap, dude. They got a bad rap. Look, I think some of it was probably on their own, but they were, they were just a bunch of ballers, man.

And they played really well together. And it was interesting. you go back and the doc covers this, which is fascinating, when the GM starts to kind of bring in new pieces, kind of break it apart to play with the Lakers, basically. It was, hey, how do we defend Kobe and Shaq and that team? And essentially, that was what, like, led to their demise. So pretty interesting.

Yeah. We're going to get to Bonsie in the minute, but I would be, it would be an error for me not to take a second because this is airing now. The draft will begin, arguably the most fun draft for the New York Giants. a very long time. Two in the top 10, buddy. But, you know, it was 2026 NFL draft.

I want to stick you in the DeLorean for a minute and go back in time. 20 years ago. 20 years ago, Matt, the 2006 NFL draft, your name was called. So let's start. I'm going to basically just, like I said, we're in the DeLorean. Go back to the morning of the draft. You're waking up in New York City, right? It was New York City.

Yeah. What's going through? your mind mentally. Where's your family at? Like, what's going on in your world the morning of 2006? Yeah. So, um, nervous, bro. Nervous. So a lot of stories come from that day. And I, for, at that time in the draft, there's only, they only invited a handful of people, right? Like, they invited maybe four to seven, maybe five or six guys. And so it was Mario Williams, Reggie Bush, myself, Vince Young, DeBrickishaf, Ferguson, and Vernon Davis. So like a couple days leading up to the draft,

you're doing all sorts of stuff, right? All the New York stuff, media, blah, blah, blah. The morning of, I mean, dude, like, one, I'm like, in about five, six hours my life is going to completely change. You're going to the NFL. You're going to be a top pick. You're going to make all this. You're going to have all of these things, right?

Like, it's just crazy. Probably similar to the Heisman night that I won, like, I was really nervous because I had no idea what to expect. So the cool part about it. that and I just saw a video this week was like my mom was there obviously my mom passed away so like that was like I saw that video and I'm like damn like I was shed a tear I'm like I don't have a lot of videos of my mom alive with me like at least on my phone so like that was pretty cool to kind of relive that moment you know um but man it was uh is it like what you would imagine dude like just

crazy chaos so mom and dad are with you do you have any friends as your brother any other families or just you mom and dad or agent like who's with you then when you leave for the draft who's in your car going over. So for me, it was my mom, my dad, my brother, my agent, my quarterback coach Steve Clarkson, who just has been with me since day one since I was 13. We're still tight to this day. Brian Kennedy was there, a USC guy. And that was it, I think, maybe one other, but that was it, like, six people, and then you're at your table. And yeah, so like you're in the green room behind the stage, right? And you've seen the videos and each have our table there and it's only six, seven, eight tables, whatever it is. And you're just like, like Mario Williams knew he was going

one. That was announced the night before because there was speculation that Reggie might have went one. Yeah. Mario went one. So I could break down the stories of the top 10 if you want to hear them because I would love to. It's our show. We could do what we want. I would love to. Here we go. So I actually pulled this up because I did forget that some of the few picks. So Mario, is number one, okay? So number two is New Orleans Saints. I flew out, one, they, they worked me out privately, Sean Payton and all those guys, and I had a good workout for them. I think they worked me out privately. I met with them. I met with them at the draft. They flew me out for a visit, a draft, official draft visit out to the facility, right? I did that with the Raiders and with them.

And there was a lot of speculation, because at that time, I think Drew was. coming off a shoulder injury. Right. He just had, I mean, Drew Brie's all-time great. It was just, there was just speculation in that time, like maybe we need to draft the next guy.

So number two is New Orleans Saints. There was a chance I was going there on draft day. They went with Reggie, which is the safe pick, a great pick. Reggie's a phenom, right? And Reggie had a great career for New Orleans Saints.

Here's where it gets interesting. Number three, was the Tennessee Titans. Norm Chow, offensive coordinator, my coach at USC. Their guy. Jeff Fisher, the head. head coach, USC guy. I had a private workout for them the day after my pro day. My pro day, I wasn't, I didn't great on my pro day. Pro days had changed a lot now. I wasn't great.

The next day for my private workout, I was a lot better with them. I threw to some of their receivers. It was like, it was a good day. I get a call the night before from Norm Chow. And he says, I don't know if I've ever told this public. He basically says, Matt, we're going to draft Vince Young. Oh, he tells you. He told me we were going to draft Vince Young. Wow. It was sort of, and I'll just leave it at this and like, this no disrespect to anybody, but like it was just out of his hands. They didn't really have his say. So they drafted Vince, you know, Houston guy, all that stuff. Vince, shout out to Vince Young. He went three. But I thought I was maybe going to go to three up until that thing because it made a lot of sense, right? Yeah. On championships with Norm

and all that stuff. The next one, New York Jets and number four. Wow. Bro. Wow. New York Post. The next Joe Namath. I met with the Jets and Manjini and Tanenbaum and all those guys, they flew out to L.A. They private, Schottenheimer, I believe, was the O.C. They, they, they, uh, I worked out, had a great workout with them. Um, they take the lineman to break a shot Ferguson, right? A tackle, you know, had a great career for them, whatever. So I don't go there.

Here's where it gets interesting. The next team, dude, that I'm, that I'm, that I'm slated to maybe go to is number seven, the Oakland Raiders. Again, draft visit to the Oakland Raiders. It was Art Shell was the coach. Um, uh, Al Davis was, obviously rest in peace was still alive. I go out there.

I have a meeting with Al Davis in his office. It's really cool, dude. I get goosebumps thinking about it. And I'm like, this is legendary Al Davis. He's basically telling me, if you fall to number seven, which there's no way you're going to fall to number seven. I remember this vividly.

He's like, I don't see how we wouldn't take you. Whatever he called me, big guy, whatever. You know, like they had, I don't know, it might have been Andrew Walter at the time. They didn't really have a key. They needed a quarter of that time. They needed a quarterback. So I'm like, I might be going to Oakland Raiders.

which was sick because I was a Raiders fan growing up. Kenny Stabler was like... Closer to the whole, not too far from home. So that was that was that. Okay. So they get on. This is a story that's wild that was just told to me a year and a half ago.

One of the strength coaches for Boise State was on the staff at that time. And I didn't know this at the time. He told me that up until probably 30 seconds, right? Because there's like 10 minutes, right? It's chipping down. People are trying to take calls, like whatever. They didn't know who they were going to pick.

he said up until maybe say a minute, it was me the whole time. With a minute to go on the clock. Everybody in that, he told me this. He's like, dude, everybody thought it was you. We were all pumped. We're like, we're going to get our quarterback, West Coast kid, all this stuff. And he told me this. He goes, Matt, he goes, in the last minute, Al Davis goes, what about that kid from Texas, Michael Huff?

And that was it. They drafted Michael Huff, dude. Based off of a revelation. Based on Al Davis was like, hey, what do, or again, like, maybe misquoting me, but what about that kid from Texas, Michael Huff? Michael Huff was a great player. He won the Jim Thorpe, like, he was a stud, right?

So that, that was it. And he goes, Matt, he's like, when Al Davis said that, the room went fucking silent. He was like, we were all like, holy shit. What the fuck is just happening, right? So that was that. Okay, so almost finish here. So then the, no, this is great, bro.

After that, dude, this is. that, dude, this is a scene from draft day, bro, when the quarterback Bo Callahan fucking leaves. I'm like, I'm now sweating. I'm the last one in there. It's like one of those doomsday. Yeah, what's going through your mind? Aaron Rogers did this the year before.

Green Bay was drafted him like in the 20th. He was the last one. Yeah. He was the last one in the room. So I'm sitting there. It feels like a day goes by, dude. And I'm like cameras are there straight out of a movie. I'm like, my agent was kind of like, I had Tom Connan was there and he's a beast. He was just on the phone. Like, we

didn't really know because it was like I didn't meet with anybody. After that, I'm like, no clue, dude. My agent, the last two. No clue. So number 10 comes. And what I heard too was when Denver, they didn't get that. Denver was going to take me or Jay Cutler, whoever fell to them at 11. Jay went to 11, I went 10, obviously. So if Jay went 10, I was going to go 11 to Denver. So I get the call from, I get, you know, then this is, this is like the moment, right? So like, I'm kind of just sitting there scrambling. I get the call, and it's Denny Green. And I'll never forget, man, rest of peace.

And I just, I love Denny. Denny was so great, man. He treated us so great. I only had one year with him, but he was phenomenal. And he goes, he goes, I think he said, and I've said this, he goes, he goes, Matt, like, this is a gift from God, man. I don't know how you fell to us, but like we're so freaking fired up to have you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And it was like the greatest, one of the greatest moments of my life, obviously. And, you know, it was the whole thing. Coach, I can't wait to get started, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah. And that was it. I get off the phone. I hug my family. I walk on stage. I have those photos you can see. It's a really cool moment. Good suit, by the way. Good suit. Yeah, three piece suit. I like it. I still have it. And then, dude, I'm on a plane. I'm on a plane the next morning, like 6 a.m. to Arizona, doing the press conference the next day. You know, with Deuce Tui, who is my team at USC. He was the second round pick. So the press conferences are for like the first

two rounds basically. At least that's what they did back then. So I'm on the plane with Deuce. That was pretty cool. And we do the press conference and facility, all this stuff, dude. And then I get home. And then I was like, you go look for a house. And I'm back. I'm in, at OTAs like three weeks later, probably two weeks later. And that was it, dude. All the craziness in the top 10, right? And I go to the team. I never, I met with Arizona in at the combine. So what they do at the combine is they have, they have hotel rooms, right? Set up. up for teams, right? And they're brass and everybody. And those are the ones that are like 15 minutes. You get 15 minutes. You get a certain amount. I did, I think I did the Saints. I did the Jets.

I did. I only did a couple, right? Then there's speed rounds, like speed dating in like a room, right? Where you can just, coaches can just pull you aside, right? Like you're sitting like you're just sitting at a table. They're like, oh, hey, I'm coach so-and-so from Arizona. Nice to meet you. You know, coach Cruz, who is my quarterback coach in Arizona. We sat for like a, a couple minutes just shooting the shit. And he was, and he, I remember he was like, there's no way you're going to drop the 10, Matt, but like love your career, whatever.

It's just small talk, right? Kind of get to know you, shake hands. Hey, coach, nice to meet you. Yeah, like awesome, blah, blah, blah. That was it. That's the only interaction I had with Arizona. So, wild. For you, after hearing that story,

what's the biggest one if, what if of all those teams? Like, which one would you say, man, if I could have just what? Because, like, I started thinking of the, the Tennessee thing. They draft Lendell White later in the first round, right? There's a chance then they draft you.

I would probably say, I would say the biggest, yeah, I would say the biggest what if is probably New York would have been bad for me. I think Oakland, Oakland didn't have a great team. Arizona, in all honesty,

Arizona, we were like, we had Anquam, working out, and Larry Fitzgerald. Like, we had receivers. And Denny just happened to get fired after one year,

right? we all know the history that happened after that. I think Tennessee, because I know that offense was my offense at USC, that's what, that's what he had there, even when Vince was drafted. Like, there, there is something to say about going to a team, coaches, the head coach, and, you know, they build around you or they build a system around you and all that kind of stuff. Again, I think the biggest what if is if I would have came out the year before, because everybody was slating me the number one draft pick the year before. Who was won that year? Was it Alex Smith? It was Alex Smith, Aaron Rogers, and myself.

And I made the decision to come back. And again, I'm glad I did. But everyone asked me, like, what if you would have went out? Sometimes I sit back and think, like, would I have gotten drafted number? I don't think I would have because physically I was not as good as I was the following year. And again, I wasn't like, you know, I wasn't a, like, I didn't have a rocket arm. But I was just a lot bigger and better my next year than I was that year. And I was hurt.

I was just hurt. So that to me might be the best. biggest what if, like, I would have came out where, like, I would have, I wouldn't have been in Arizona, you know, so, but yeah, Tennessee probably. Dude, well, listen. Hey, but real quick, shout out to all the, you know, all the kids who are going to get drafted, even the ones that aren't going to get drafted. It's, it's an incredible experience, enjoy it, embrace the moment. And if you don't let it be motivation, right, there's so many stories out there of undrafted free agents, fourth, I mean, Tom Brady, the biggest one, right? Fifth round pick, six.

six round picks, seventh round picks. The story isn't over if you're not, your name's not called right. It's just, it's a great day. I'm excited to watch it and to see where all these kids go. And I'm excited to see what your Giants do in the top 10, bro. Two picks in the top 10.

It's gotten to the point, Matt, and I know by the time most people listen to this, maybe the draft will have happened, who knows. But it's gotten to the point where I've heard so many versions of what the Giants could do. You almost have to just stop reading and listening to stuff because nobody knows. It'll all be fun, man.

Let's get, Bonzie, our boy. Let's get to our boy, Bonzie Wells. Untold, jailblazers. You know what gets me every time that mid-afternoon slump, like 3 p.m. hits and suddenly thinking about coffee. Something sweet, just a little pick-me-up. I've started building in those little treat moments, though, because if you don't, you end up going off the rails, it's all about balance, right? And lately, I've been swapping that extra coffee run for something that actually does a little more for me. Kachava's new coffee flavor. Stuff is legit.

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That's Kachava, K-A-V-A-V-com, code throwbacks. All right, our guest today hails from Muncie, Indiana. He completed his career at Ball State as the Mid-American Conference, all-time leader in points and steals, the 11th overall pick in the 1998 draft. He knows a challenge of trying to lock down my favorite athlete and basketball player of all time, Kobe Bryant. And in the 2003 playoffs, he set a then-franchised record of 45 points, a member of the infamous Portland jailblazers with a new doc coming out. It's Bonzie Wells. Welcome to throwbacks, man. Man, appreciate you having me, gentlemen. Appreciate it. I am like, so I'm a Laker fan. You know, I'm from Southern California, but I totally, watching this doc, which is really incredible,

and that team, and those teams you were on were so good and so fun to watch. It's just a great, it was great memory lane for me, man. And I used to always say, yeah, Bonzi's a great player and all this stuff, man. So we really appreciate you coming on, dude. I appreciate you having a thing. And, you know, I'm glad you guys liked the doc,

and I hope everybody else like it when they watch it. But it was just an opportunity for us to tell our story, man, from, you know, our eyes, not everybody else's. And, you know, like we spoke off camera that it wasn't any social media back then. So it's good for everybody to kind of relive the journey and kind of understand, oh, that makes sense now. You know, oh, okay, that makes sense instead of kind of like hearing one side of the story, judging guys off the one side of the story.

So that's kind of what it was. I want a Damien story to get out. I want a Rashid story. to get out of muscle mall. Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask. When you are first approached with the idea of doing a doc, right? Is it, was it an immediate, like, yes, let's go tell the story. What was your process when this all kind of came together?

Was it a no-brainer? Do you guys all have to take some time to figure out if you wanted to go back down memory lane? You know, honestly, it was me. I spearheaded this thing about eight years ago. It just became an idea. And, you know, and you know how this world is. You know people.

and sometimes you don't do official writing stuff down. It's just a conversation. And, you know, when I, when we started the big three years ago with Ice Cube, I started mingling with different type of people that, you know, in different worlds. And I was just, we was having blazer conversation, blazer conversation. And I was like, man, I think it would be nice if we did a documentary. Just something to tell our story, just kind of just go back and relive the thing. And it just became a conversation.

And it just stayed on me. And for years, I was just trying to connect the dots with different people and make stuff happen. And you know how I go. timing's not right, you know. And then once I've really got it together, the hardest part was getting guys to agree to it, you know, and, you know, a couple guys got on immediately, but Rashid Wallace is probably one of the toughest guys in the world to, you know, get to talk. And I had to pull the serious friend part to be like, bro, we need you. I need you, man. Let's just tell our story. Because he's such an interesting guy to me. He's such an interesting character. And he's so

misunderstood. And I'm like, man, people need to know the true you, the guy that I know, because I know how people, the response is when we go out in public, especially back then some people will be standoffers, some people will be, you hear the whispers, you get the looks. And I'd be like, man, people don't know how genuinely of a good guy you are. And then Damon as well, and just, you know, all of us. And I feel like that story needed to be told. And once I've met a guy named Tim Livingston, you know, he's my guy.

He kind of started connecting the dots with me. And we got with some other guys and it worked out. It was so fun watching because it kind of brought me. back because I was gosh in those years I was probably 17 18 19 years old I played basketball and football and I remember there were a few like players and teams that really changed you know the culture just what it was it was the fab five back in the day you know with the shorts and the uniform it was it was kind of AI coming in a league and him and then gosh I'm watching the dock and I'm thinking man it was it was you guys like you guys like it's almost it's almost refreshing to watch it because now the NBA is so different

I don't say it's soft, but it's different, right? It's just a different. You guys were like almost the bad boys, you know, before, you know, you guys were like the bad boys in that time. You kind of talk about reliving. What emotions and feelings come up? I know you just watch the doc. What emotions do come up from that?

Because I do think, and Jerry and I have talked about this, it is one of the bigger what ifs, I think, in sports, because you guys were so freaking good. And if you do win that game seven against the Lakers, then, like, you guys might go want to win a couple championships, just the emotions and feelings that you got from rewatching that. I mean, it was a lot, you know, because when you were in the moment, I was young. I was in my first couple years in the league, so I didn't know the intricate details that was going on behind the scenes. For me, seeing a doc was like connecting puzzle pieces for me as well. And when I was in the moment, I was just remembering selfishly saying to myself looking at the talent, like,

I'm never going to play. Like, these guys are really, really, really good. I'm never going to get off the bench. And I just remember that journey. Like my first year I didn't play. We made it to the Western Conference Finals. I don't know if you remember when Sean Elliott hit that corner three over Rockies. Oh, yeah.

And then he played the Knicks in the finals and they beat the Nixon. So that was supposed to be us. And, you know, but, you know, when you're young and dumb, you're thinking, oh, this is every year. We'll be back next year. It's nothing. And, you know, and that was the beginning of, okay, you start seeing, you know, Bob Witts and started making tweaks to the roster a little bit.

But, you know, that's part of the business. I was okay with it. So my second year, when they brought in Scotty Pippin, Steve Smith, and some guys with some, you know, some real cachet in terms of legends. You know, Scottie Pipp was a Lekin. And obviously, we know Steve Smith is a perennial all-star from the east. And I was like, okay, we got a different vibe here. And when we made that journey in 2000, I was literally like, man, every time we go into the game, I think we're up 15 points because we're that good. Like, people are scared of us.

Like, not, not, but we had an intimidation factor to us in terms of how we carried ourselves, which was a plus. And if you got that type of babado, you would take it. And I think just going through that and dominating teams, they're going through that roller coaster with the Lakers for all those years, and especially that 2000 when we lost that game seven, that right there when I saw that, because I haven't watched the game since 2000, I never watched it. Just to see those highlights and seeing the people,

it brought it back to me. And I just remember, like, being dumb, like, we'll be back next year again. And they made some tweaks. and, you know, we never got back there. Then we went through the hole. The fans love us and everybody loved us. And then you just watch the downfall.

And I watched the downfall. And then at the end of the doc, I'm not going to lie to you guys. I shed it a tear because it brought back so many emotions that I went through that I didn't know I was going through. Well, that's what really comes across and watching it. You know, we were talking off the air. Like, that was peak basketball for me. And I was like 20 years old. I was watching every game.

Any game, I don't care who was playing. I was watching everything. and, you know, that's why I'm so happy you guys did do this doc because, you know, watching it back now, first of all, I forget how young truly you are. Like, we're about, like, you're not, we're about the same age, right? You'll realize it because, like, you're in the NBA. I'm like some kid working in a restaurant.

And, like, you're, like, playing an NBA playoff games, right? But, you know, and I don't want to, I encourage everyone to watch it, so I won't get too deep because I don't want to, not the, it's, I mean, it's a public story, but when you, the shit, the thing that hit me the most was the Damon Staldemier, incident, right? The thing that happened, I just think like today, obviously, we always have these talks about like, oh, social media having it now. It's no good. And back then, but like, that might have been the one instance where maybe it might have helped because like, and Damon, I know says in the doc, like, he just like never talked about it, buried it, went about

his life. But to me, watching that and like knowing you were so young, you must have really just been like, what the hell is going on in this place? You know, it hurt me so bad, but I was proud of him. Of course. Because it hurt me to see people turn on him, hometown, legend, one of the best players in the league, just a really, and then off the court, hands down, one of the best men you want to know. Yeah. And they was just so hard on him, and I watched him every day, never put his head down. I never saw him pout.

I never saw him. Even when we hung out on our personal time and just doing what we do, he never wanted no. mind to feel sorry for him. And that's the what I respected so much about him. And when he was going through and this stuff was happening, that's the story I wanted people to know about Damest Died and Maird and Rashiie Wattah's like, this stuff happens to people like us out here.

The police might have it out for you. Yeah. You know, people just don't like you and don't want to see you on top and they just want to, and when they control the narrative, they kind of control your life. And, you know, back then, was it associated press was everywhere. And everybody didn't have access to it. And us, we were so anti-media. We wouldn't say nothing to them. So we just allowed them to say, spew whatever they wanted to. And for guys like

yourself who don't know us personally, you're going to form your opinion. I hate this dude. This guy is a douchebag. This guy is this and that, not knowing that these people are creating a narrative that's totally false of a reality. And that's what we dealt with so much. It got to the point, well, it was always like that. We was just like, we was used to it. It just became another Monday that we got pulled over. It became another Tuesday that they would pull us over, let let you go on your way. And then you read the paper next day that the policeman made a report to say it. I pulled such and such over. And I think I smelled the odor of marijuana just to put the narrative out there.

And it keeps building. And then when you start stacking narratives, shoot, the weight was just so heavy. He was just like, man, this is what it is. Yeah, man, that's just dead wrong. I'm curious to see, like, once the doc drops, like, there will be some commentary on social media about a lot of that stuff. So, like, real quick, I know we were talking about, like, game seven, you haven't watched it. But, you know, we hear our throwbacks like to kind of go back in time and dig up. I forgot, too, as a massive fat.

You guys were down 3-1. So that game 7 wasn't just like, oh, both teams were slugging it out. You guys almost pulled off. 3-1 is like a death sentence in playoff basketball, let alone the Western Conference finals. So I guess go back in time for a minute because it doesn't really hit on the dock, but the mindset, what do you remember going into that, like, game 5 down 3-1? Lakers trying to close it. I'm going to tell you the truth.

If you look at the series, we went to L.A., you know, you got to play 2, 2, 1,1, 1. We split in L.A. We got our brains beat in game first. In game 1, I'm sorry. Game 2, we beat them. So we're going back to Portland with all the momentum. Like, oh, we got two games at home. We're going at least we got to get two of them.

We're going to go three of one. And we're confident. We saw the looks on their face. We knew the matchups was there in our favor. We knew we were deeper. we knew we had better players respectfully as a whole, as a whole. So we was like, okay, one of them going to get their point, Shack or Kobe. It is what it is, but we can't let the others.

So that was the game playing. And when we went to game two and, I'm sorry, three and four back in Portland, I think we might have let our guards down a little bit, a little more cocky, because we had the home court advantage of the fans were great. And they snuck us in those two games. So you think the morale would be down, it wasn't. Guys were still like, man, we gave them a gift. man, we're going to go to L.A. and wooped down.

We're going to go back home and whip him again. And then we're going to go win in game seven. So that was the mindset. And you basically did it. You basically did that very thing. Yeah. Well, you know, everybody would say that in that situation. If we do this, we can do that.

You know, you're thinking of the best case. So, you know, everybody threw it out there. And you know, you don't know if it's going to happen, but it happened. And it was happening perfectly until for, so it worked well in game five, game six and game seven for three quarters. And then after that, you know, bopple, 13 missed shots in a row, or whatever the case may be. But it was no wavering on the fact that we still, to this day, for like we were a better team, and they will probably tell you to say.

All people remember, and you see the highlight. And by the way, I don't watch the last five minutes of our USC Texas National Championship game with Vince Young just whooped our ass. I understand. I'm the same way, man. It just makes me, it makes me shed a tear. I'm like, I got to turn it off because I know. Unfortunately, I know what happens. But like game seven, you only really see the lob, right, from Kobe to Shaq, but I forgot the 13 missed shots because I'm watching it, the doc, and I'm like, dude, you're up 13 or 15 going into the fourth,

you have the game one, and then all of a sudden it's just, it's just, it's just like luck, you know, literally Lakers got lucky, and I'll be the first to say that. I wanted to ask you about Kobe, because I think, you know, for me personally, like I think he's one of, I think he's probably number two behind MJ and, you know,

there's all these goat conversations, LeBron, all these people, but like, you played against, him, you saw him throughout his prime in those years. What are your thoughts on Kobe on where he stands as one of the greatest of all time? Because I do think sometimes he's, he almost, he's looked at as underrated sometimes, you know, with the way they view, you know, I don't know. I just feel like these young kids now are like, oh, like he's, he's never really in that conversation sometimes, you know? And it sucks. It sucks. You know, I argue with my kids and I argue with these younger kids that I coach and I'll be like, fam, y'all say that.

But you guys never had to look across from him knowing that you got to guard him on NBC at noon where everybody's watching across the country. And like, you don't know what that feels. Like, I do. But, you know, honestly, man, Colb, you know, rest in peace to Cole. Yeah.

I'm just so thankful for what he brought to the game, the mindset he brought to the game. And the mama mentality is real. You know, people don't truly understand. Kobe had no friends in terms of outsiders. If you were close to Kobe, you were special. you like every time I talk to Kobe off the court it was like interviewing our young fellow yeah and they keep moving around it was never like he

trying to be my friend he was like and then do you hear about the work ethic you hear about the stories and then you get on the court and he's embarrassing you like I just remember I thought I was one of the best defenders in the history of defense just mentally because you try to be you know you try to have confidence in yourself I just watch this six six man when he don't got big hands he can't grip the ball he's not oh more athletic than me he's not overly faster to me, but just the skill set and the will that he had, it was unmatched. And I played against Jordan, older Jordan, LeBron, Kobe. And just that Kobe, it was just amazing to watch as a fan of his and the compete against him to see if I could even match up.

And he was younger to me in age, but I was just like, man, this guy is just so mature and ahead of his time, the way he goes about the game, the way he, you know, holds people accountable to how they even address him. You know, Kobe don't even take no mess on how you even address him. So I just really appreciated him for the game. And I feel like it's dumb for kids to really, really overlook Kobe in any type of goal conversation because his game was special and he didn't have any distinct advantages. Like Braun 69, 250, he got, you know, Michael Jordan's Uber Athletic, had these big hands, you know, all this, the stuff of Kobe was just a 6-6 skinny kid with a crazy, crazy, crazy skill set.

This episode is brought to you by FedEx. These days, the Power Move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate launch. The real Power Move is leveling up your business with FedEx intelligence and accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks. Level up your business with FedEx, the new Power Move. What do you remember about, you said you played against kind of older Jordan, I'm assuming with the Wizards. What, what, what do you remember about playing against him? Anything? Playing poker or playing, uh, gosh. No, just playing. I mean, poker.

Both, both. Yeah, yeah. You know, I was blessed to, I was blessed to play with Pip. So, you know, I had kind of an end with Jordan. So we, we've had a couple card games where I got to, I got blessed to be in everything. I learned that it's levels. It's levels. It's levels. It's levels. I learned a lot about levels. Like, I'm here. Jordan is, you know, and he'll let you know about it.

But, you know, playing against Jordan, I just remember when he was playing from the Wizards. And, you know, I grew up in Indiana. So, you know, WGN for us was local. So I was always a huge Jordan fan. I was a huge Jordan fan, you know, a huge Scotty Pippen fan. And I heard about the stories for Scotty for like two years before Jordan, you know, before we played them. And just telling me about Jordan. I was just picking Pips, you know, brain about Jordan, about the time, you know, mindset and all that stuff.

And then he was like, you're like, man, we're going to have a car game. You want to meet him? And I just remember, this is a true story. This is a true story. Wow. We went to Washington. And I got a call at three in the morning. We have shoot around.

We had practice the next morning at like 10. He was like, hey, man, the game is on. You coming or not? Yes, I jumped up. I ran three blocks to the rich car. I've never met him before, right? So they took me around to the resident side or whatever. And I remember I knocked on the door.

I was nervous. I was just trying to get myself together. I'm not knocked on the door in Georgia. and Jordan answered it. And he gave me, he looked at me, gave me some depth and he said, B, dub, what's up? And he gave me a hug, right?

Wow. And when he hugged me, I smelled him. Oh. And I said, damn, he smelled like success. I said, man, I said, man, I know I was weird, but I said, man, I just wanted to smell him, man. You know, he just showed love. He was just nice to me all night long, man.

I just got a visual of that. I got a visual of that's amazing, dude. And, you know, we played two times that year, and I got, you know, we split. But it was just good going against him. He lost his athleticism, but he still had the skill set, the pivot. Yeah. And that's why he was pumped fake Michael Jordan. So he still gave us 20, he still gave us 25 at 40.

So I let you know what he was on. Listen, I, you know, I'm a Knicks fan. And similarly, like, you know, that guy was the bane of my existence. But I want to ask you with two things real fast, too. You know, you mentioned like your kids and kids are coaching, right? I have this conversation with my nephew's 17 all the time I like I learned how to show him like Michael Jordan highlight real he's like come on was he really that good I'm like dude

but who do you find like whether it's kids your coach and your own like what when you talk about like your generation who do they try to throw at you from this generation right besides LeBron I know it's LeBron but besides Braun that's what it's always going to be it's going to be brown right like they know John Morant they don't know D. Rose the young D. Rose that we know They know John Moran. I'll be trying to tell these guys, I'd be like kids,

all this training stuff you're doing and all these kids you're seeing, they got the stuff from our era. All these training as they're doing is all the stuff that Michael Jordan was doing naturally. These trainers are just so smart. They know how to break it down in the drill form. I said, so you're just basically getting kids

who mimic the games of other guys. Like even when you coach, it's crazy. Alan Iverson used to do this cut right, where you got the top of the kid, you have two guys at the free throw line, and he'd be on the wing, and he just run across the top of the guys and he catch the ball and drick it through.

It's called the Iverson cut in everybody's offense. Like they got names for guys. And you're probably in football, as you know, Matt. You probably have different things. The guys did well. So I mean, like, guys, you guys stole everything that we had that we offered. And you guys are trying to make it like you're the originators and you're not. And, you know, if you really want to watch guys, I've said Jordan and Kobe and Scotty

Pippen and he was my favorite, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, just Charles. Barkley. There's so many guys that just naturally played the game without training aids. Go watch those guys. And that's that's that's the reactionary stuff. A lot of you guys play, oh, I got to do this cone drill. I got to do this pop, pop, pop, pop. Like, no. Like, our arrow was different. We're going right at you. We don't got no time to, you know, shoot threes and all that crazy shit. Real quick. I love, I love basketball. I love this. Who was someone, we know like Kobe in that era. I know you play with T-Mack, I think, who's, I mean, unbelievable. You mentioned Penny. was there someone in the era that you played

that is just like super we talked about Brandon Roy a couple weeks ago and like one of the bigger what-ifs how great he was right but then the injuries and all that was there someone in your era that maybe we don't talk about that you're like this dude was a problem maybe not a big name or a star but someone that would give you fits

I mean I just man that's that's a good question because everybody played with a really really really good players. I mean, I was going to name a guy like Yao, but y'all was really, really good. And I thought Y'all could have been really amazing. But we don't even talk about Yow. We don't talk about Yow anymore, though. It's sad, but we really don't. Oh, my goodness. Y'all was the best center of skill that I've ever seen. I'm talking about shooting, mobile, big, good touch, play

like guys like him, you know, a guy like Stroh Miles Swift, who was really, really, really good. But he was just like, He was kind of like Rashid a lot, like, I don't care about getting 20 and 30 points. I just want to win the game, play the right way. And if I get 20, if not, you get 20 and all that stuff. I don't care. So, you know, there's so many really good players out there. I mean, that's an interesting question. It might pop up in my mind again.

I might say something in the second. There was, Vernon Maxwell was on a pod. And he had said somebody back in the day. And it was like, actually, I think he ended up passing away so rest of peace out. But he was a European guy. And he said, man, this dude used to give me buckets. We'll have a caller, Eddie, one of our researchers will pop But it made me a thing

It's like, I don't even know who the guy was But like this dude was a ball Well, you know what? This sets up though We do a throwback three every week, right? We just ask for like a top three from you And being that you had that Swag of I'm the best defender in the world

As you should have as a young man Yeah Give us the three guys Night before you're like, shoot, I got to cover this guy tomorrow. All right. Give me your throwback three toughest covers for you personally, strictly for you.

Easily, that's easily. I tell anybody. Obviously, Kobe, you're going to sleep at 8 p.m. You're not hanging out. You're not, we're not chasing. We're not partying none of that. Colby, obviously is number one. No, early night.

Richard Hamilton, Rip Hamilton. I don't know if you remember the way he's this run. Just never stop running. Run, run, run, run, run. And it's a tie with these two guys because their games kind of changed. But Reggie Miller and Ray Allen were two of the toughest guys to guard. Because I can guard somebody on the wing that's giving you rock steps and all this stuff.

But when the guy this won't stop moving, and then you have big strong burly, big shoulder guys setting the screens. And those are the stuff that's tough to guard. And Reggie Miller and Ray Island, you know, this is when Ray would became a shooter before he was, this after he was dribbling and all that stuff when he came a shooter. He was just really tough to guard. And the night before, you better get some rest. Man, I'm thinking about it now. you guys would have, I think you guys would have beat the crap out of the Pacers after that game seven, man.

Oh, I'm, because that's who the Lakers destroyed. The Lakers swept the P. I know. I think, I think you guys would have swept them two, maybe five, man. You had nothing for you. Fellas, I had a party plan. I'm like, I'm going home. I got a party plan. We're going to win. We're going to win a championship at home. I just had this whole mapped out in my mind during the fourth quarter. As I'm watching the league go from 13, 11, the dime, it's like, oh, my goodness. So just everything just kind of went away all in the, and you know how it. Matt, when you're winning. And then when they're walking you down, the time goes so slow.

You're like, you're like, oh, this is. Seven minutes left. There's still seven minutes left. I got, honestly, dude, I got goosebumps talking to you because I can remember, I remember those years as a Laker fan. And then, like, because the Lakers had all the Kings battles when they had, you know, Bobby Jackson and they had, Asia. They had, and then you guys, it was always the West, man.

No disrespect to the East. No, that's true. The Nix, but it was the West back then. The name, Bonzie, was Drozzen Petrovik. Of course. So Maxwell was talking about, he's like, that dude, yeah, rest of peace. He used to give him buckets.

Well, you know, you talked a lot about Rashid. And I do think the doc really highlights what you guys were trying, what you were trying to do and put him together. Just like he is misunderstood. He played with a lot of emotion. It seems like he was a great teammate. How do you think, if you could pinpoint one thing, how do you think he was misunderstood, you know, as you watch it.

It's like, because he, you know, the technicals and all this stuff, but he just played with so much passion. And that's what it is. That's Rashid. And Rashid is what you call it one of one. He's like, if we're going, everybody's going this way. Sheed is going to go this way. Like he's not like he's not a guy that's going to wear a jury.

He's not a guy that's going to be in the fashion stuff. He don't wear, he don't care about none of that stuff. All he care about is family, you know, making sure everything is good and his friends. And if you're in that search. circle, you're in there forever. And then that's what I wanted to show in the doc because Rashid didn't care about stats. All he wanted to do was when. I remember, you know, I just get mad at him. You know, we're sitting back. We might be doing a session or whatever we're doing. You know, the fellow be powwowing. And I'd be like, bro, how you letting Chris Weber and Dirk and Tim them

averaged in 20 and they being printed all-stars. He only averaged in 17, 18. I'm like, dude, you can average 25 a night if you really wanted to. And he looked at me and he said, bonds, think about it. He said, what would look like if I'm averaging shooting all the balls having 25, 30, you averaging 7 or 8, Dame averaging 10 or whatever, and I get hurt. Now we ask you y'all to do something that you haven't been doing all year. He said,

what if I'm averaging 17 or 18, you at 15 or 16, Dame at 15, Pipp at this number, and if one of us go down, it ain't that much, we all on a good rhythm. And selfishly, I was like, oh, Lord, I got more shots for me. I got more shots for me. Yeah, but I just let me know the type of dude he is. He's just a team guy. He didn't care about nothing

him but win it. And he could sniff out the BS. He sniffs out the bullshit. So he really truly believed the refs was cheating. The refs had an agenda. And when the stuff came out with the ref cheating and we had him on our pod, he admitted that he was cheating to us. And Rashi was

always saying this stuff behind the scenes. Is Donna Hay? You had Donah I got to listen to that, man. That's crazy. And he admitted it on your show. Yeah. He was like, man, we had an agenda with y'all. That's crazy. Go check it out if I get. You know, go check out I would love to get technical, under our, let's get technical when we was doing our pod.

But he, he told us, and Rashid's like, man, I told you, Bonds, they was cheating us. I told you I wasn't out there tripping. Like, I told you that was get every big game they would give me and you two files in the first quarter, or Dame or Pipp or whatever. So we got to sit and kind of get the, like, he was just saying all this conspiracy stuff. I'm not knowing if it's true or not. But when it's, he kind of, Donna, he kind of confirmed a couple things. We was like, wow.

It's probably for sure true. Yeah, yeah, like, wow. I mean, I love the NBA. I'm not ragging on them, but just in that incident when he said, I was like, wow, She, you know, you, yeah, yeah, you caught it. Damn. Well, then, because it really does, like, turn into a script, right? You know, Rashid goes to Detroit.

And with that same mindset, though, right? Like, again, could have went in. His numbers could have been way bigger. And if you look at that Pistons team, right? Who's really the star that team? It's like, Billups was, like, the leader, but, like, he wasn't 25. Rip Hamilton, you mentioned Ben Watt. Like, who, Tachon, like, that was a team similar to what was built with that Blazer

team that the pieces just fit together. There was an unselfishness. And of course, like I said, like a good Hollywood script, they beat the freaking Lakers, which man. Man. And I said it in a doc. The super team, too. They smacked it. I just remember I was so hurt

watching him celebrate with the mother. And those are my brothers. Of course, that's fair sweet. Yeah. But I was watching him and I was just sitting back at the house and I was happy for him, but I was like, man, I wish we could have experienced that together because we went through so much and that could have been the

final F you to everybody, like, through it all. Yeah. We still won. And that's, that's the thing that kind of lingers for us because we was right there. But it's just a pesty-assy-ass lakers. And that Shaq and Kobe that Rick Fox, Jack and Kobe. Brian Shaw, my guy. You honestly, if you think about it, I mean, Shaq and Kobe were great, obviously, but like you guys definitely were way deeper, way more talented. Like you said, like, it's not even close. Those two were just so, but you had like, do you have them, They had their role players, and then you had two stars, man.

Yeah. I feel for you. I feel for you. I just think how many times Derek Fisher hit that big shot. Robert Ory hit that big shot. Rick Fox hit that big quarter. The stabilizer shot or whatever because everybody knows the defenses is going to double team this guy. Everybody knows the flow.

But them guys always hit that shot. And that's why they're pros. And that's why they're legends and what they do. I think, I think, Bonsie, one really cool thing about the doc that I thought was, and you talk about it just really talks. tells your story and highlights all of you guys. But for you, and when you had, you know, the quote about the fans and you talk about it in the dock, and I thought it was just, you know, you kind of owned up to it.

And I think I've read a quote where you, it's like one of the, maybe the regrets you've had in your career. When you do look back at that, do you all, do you think like, man, I should have never said that? Or how do you feel when you rewatched it kind of relive in that moment for you? Man, I'm going to tell you, and I never said this to nobody. I didn't say it. Oh. this is the craziest thing. This is how they take stuff out of context, right?

So back then, everybody was trying to get a story. But people were coming in. So they gave it the SID Sports Information Director or whatever for the team or whatever. He gave us the heads up, hey, Sports Illustrated is coming in. We know what's up. They're trying to come in and find some dirt or whatever. But it's still Sports Illustrated. You're still going to give them a little something or whatever.

So in this particular moment with me, you know, he was asking me all kind of dumb-ass questions. Like I'm a kid. I'm like, bro. Of course. And nobody's. We know what you're trying to finesse us. Nobody's stupid.

You know what you're trying to, trying to go viral before viral was a thing. We know what's what you're trying to do. So we were leaving a game and we played a bad game that so happened. And they booed us, right? And I remember this like it was yesterday. And he asked me the simple question, how do you feel when the fans booed you? And I said, we hate it.

And he said, what are you going to do about it? And I said, well, if we play better, but they'll love us tomorrow. I said, but all we got to do is play best. Because it was a game next day. It was like two days. I said, all we got to do is play better. I said, you know how this stuff go. Yeah.

And so when I read that quote, I said, what the? And I'm talking about I was the beloved Bonzi Wells before that moment. The next day, they was booing me. But I'm thinking to myself, I don't even have to say nothing because Portland knows me. They love me. I'm not, they know the time. I leave with love. I might be aggressive on the court when I play, but off the court, I'm the nicest man in the world.

Yeah. And when, and people who know me knows. So when he said that, and I saw that, I said, oh. and it wasn't no way I could say anything back because the organization took it. And I was like, and then by, I would look like, like I was trying to scramble if I would have said something by time it came out. Because I, so I just kind of kept the status quo with all of us.

It was like, I'm just going to just let it go. Like, Dammit let it go. She let it go many times. I was like, it can't get no worse, you know? But for me, that was the beginning of the end for me. And the fans just kind of turned on me, which I get it because they don't know me. All they can do is go off what they read and hear.

So I understand it now when I'm older, but when I was young, it hurt. It hurt me bad. And it made me bitter to not want to smile when I was on the camera, made me bitter when I didn't want to smile. And that wasn't who I was, but when I was getting booed all the time and people said disrespectful things to me when I was out, I just left a bitter mindset. Yeah, shit. I appreciate that, man. I didn't know. Again, there's a perfect example of like you just kind of read what you think and you talk about a little bit.

But I appreciate the honesty. Oh yeah, yeah, I appreciate. And that's why I'm happy that you got this doc made and I encourage everybody to watch it. And yeah, thinking about like, even just hearing you say that too, you know, growing up in New York, there was so much, it always did feel like, because New York's a tough town to play and like the movie would try to like get a divide

with a player in the fandom, right? Like famous like Jack McDowell at one point, pitcher for the Yankees couldn't take it and like flipped off the crowd. And that became like this whole, like there was, especially in that era, I feel like, again, maybe she's trying to sell papers or whatever. Who knows? But it did feel like there was wedges.

They tried to incite the fan base, right? Because that's what sells back then anyway before social. So I'm glad you did it, man. I'm glad that you got to tell the story. It's an awesome doc. I love a good sports doc. And this one is like of the era. So I encourage everyone to watch it.

And yeah, man, it's good to hear. Like, you still keep up with everyone to. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm the connector. That's my job. I'm the connector. I'm cool with everybody.

Man, I leave with love, man. And, you know, if I saw y'all, I would be the same way. That's how I always been. You know, on the court, I'm a warrior. I was a warrior. I played hard. You were, man. That's how you got to play in.

And I had a crazy father growing up that wouldn't let me smile on the court because he knew I was a class clown off the court. So is that a rule, though? Like, no smiling on the court? Oh, 100%. 100%. I bet not catch you smiling. That's what it was.

I bet not catch you smiling unless the game is to say triple zero is and it's over with because I was a class clown. I was voted class clown my senior year. And he's like, man, if you could, he used to always tell me, he said, man, if you ever took this game seriously and quit smiling so much, you could be good. So that's what it became. And then it became a threat. Like, all right, and I'm tired of asking, if I see you smiling again on the court, I'm going to, you know, do that thing to you. So it just became me trying to take the game seriously.

And that's all he wanted. Well, I think that's what the fans did love about you. And that's what, as a true basketball fan, all you ever want to feel is that you really want to win and you're taking the shit serious. And as much as maybe you wanted to smile, I think, I mean, when I watched you, I was like, that dude wants to fucking win. That dude wants this game bad. You know, it's easy to say, of course, you want to win. But there is a difference, right?

Like, yeah. It's just wanting to win and like needing to win. It's a different thing. You guys had that need to win. Yes, sir. With that team. So, dude, can't thank you enough for doing this again. The doc is unbelievable.

Courage everyone to watch it. And, hey, man, let's hit up. Let's tee it up one of these days. I don't know now. We got to go ahead. Hopefully you don't want to win that much in golf because, you know, you'll take some... Every show we do, we always end up trying to play golf with everybody because all of us do. I love golf, man.

Golf changed my life, man. I've been playing golf about 20 years now, and it's just the best game ever invented. I mean, there's no... You know, y'all know the journey. Y'all know the journey. It's a hard journey, though. I hit the best eight iron in the world today about 175, about five feet from the whole of the day, so I'm still feeling that. I still got that on me a little bit.

There's nothing better than hitting a fucking great golf shop, man. Oh, God. Yeah, definitely, definitely. All right, man. Best of luck. And, yeah, we'll talk to you soon. Good luck with you, guys. Thank you, man.

Bless it to you, fellas. Thanks for having me. All right, peace. All right, big thank you to Bonzie Wells. That Jordan story, man, smells like success. Just gave a hug at three in the morning. I just love that he threw his clothes on. He was like, I got to get there.

I can picture running through trying to get there. So good, man. All right. What a great, dude. we are an honor of the jailblazers and I just want to point out too we've said this and like jailblazers is not on any of my lists

because now also we have to talk in the Bonzi that nickname to me although catchy and memorable I don't think it was deserved man it's not like a deserved I don't know I feel totally different

about that nickname now after all these years and after getting the story yeah I don't it's not necessarily the greatest nickname I don't think but I mean look again the doc I think takes a deeper dive

into those guys and the personality and honestly I think I think the league was out to get them I mean Bonsie talks about that a little bit but the doc talks about that I think they were just one of those in that era where they were kind of being out to get got

you know so all right so here's how we're going to do this Matt because there's so many to choose from in our favorite nicknames you go your three and I will comment and then I will go my three and bring the noise

So you want to go count it backward, three to number one? Yeah. So I'm going to go. I mean, I could have easily been number one for, but I don't want to be a homer. So I'm going to go number three, Showtime Lakers. I'm not really sure if there's a better name than just like, hey, it's Showtime, right? It's Showtime, the ball. Like, it's Showtime.

So obviously that air with Magic Kareem and we had James Worthy on a couple weeks ago. But Showtime Lakers is pretty sweet. This one is interesting. Number two, I'm going to Bash, Brow. others. Oh, okay. I know. As a baseball fan growing up, obviously, I love baseball. And in the freaking, I don't even care, the steroid era, it don't matter to me. You had Mark McGuire and you had Jose Canseco, just two absolute units batting back to back and just hitting absolute nukes. I mean, unbelievable. That one just stuck with me. And then, listen, dude, I'm going to go number one.

this is going to surprise you, but I still think we talked about them recently. They are still culturally relevant today as they were, you know, 20, 30 years ago. The Fab Five. Yeah, that's that's, the fab five to me, it's still like they, they just changed. Like, it was like them and like AI, right, kind of changed just the way the culture of basketball and the fact, and they were together for March Madness a couple weeks ago, Michigan won at all. And they were all together. And I was just like, this is so rad. These guys are back together. They didn't even win a championship. And they're still being talked about as sort of transcending the game of hoops back then.

So, again, I had a bunch of other ones, man. I'm curious. That would be my top three nicknames, though. So the cool thing about Showtime, besides the obvious, and something you and I talked about off the air, it's just one word, showtime. A lot of these nicknames have like the, the, the, like a bunch of things. Yeah, when you say Showtime, you know. Showtime.

Yeah, that was the Lakers. So that's always what made it cool, you know. like those things that are one word. Great list. Great list. You really can't, you know, there's really everyone. I'm curious to hear everyone else is on social too because some people are going to claim. I'm going to start real quick, Matt.

I'm going to give you the worst one first. I don't know why this became the nickname for this team. I'll say, I'll look right in the camera and say, I think it's stupid. I think it's a stupid nickname. The Heedles for the Heat team, for the LeBron, Dwayne Wade. They were called the Heatles? I've never heard that before. Like the Beatles, like you gotta go see them in person.

Yeah, we all went and saw them in person. And unless you were from Miami, you booed them. I don't know if anyone went to go see the Beatles in the 60s. By the way, that was so bad. I never even heard of the Beatles. You never heard of the Beatles? No, that was a thing. That was a thing for sure.

And easily, uh, and I'm sorry, I just will refuse America's team. I will not put that. I just won't do it. Whatever you want. I just will not do it. Okay. That being said, I'm gonna go number three. this is a personal favorite.

Hate me if you want. I'm going run TMC. Dude, I had them honorable mention. So sick, bro. It's so specific to me. So you could argue with yourself on this one if you want. But just that generation, Mullen, Mitch Richmond, I mean, Tim Hardaway, just the ultimate coolness factor.

They were nasty. They were another three that were like kind of had that bad boy image a little bit, right? You know, like a little bit of toughness. up there, NorCal, yeah, run TMC was sick. They were in my top 10 for sure. God, there's so many, man. I couldn't allow myself to do it. I don't know where you're going with this.

Well, number two, I'm going with the Dream Team. I just think that's as iconic as Showtime, in terms of like my iconicness, that is as iconic as anything you could think of. You hear it, you know exactly what it is. I'm going Homer on my number one. I'm just sorry I am. And I'm sorry for you with your Dodgers

that you don't have a cool, fancy nickname for your... We don't need a nickname to win champion. Dodger, well, back-to-back champs, I should say. The Bronx Bombers, come on. The Bronx Bombers. I like the Bash Brothers better than the Bronx Bombers. Well, the Bash brothers are cool for that moment. I remember the elbow thing.

You might get everyone with that one, because that one is fantastic, but it's just hard when I think of the nicknames after Dream Team. To me, it's Bronx Bombers. But we left a lot off. I almost split, and I can't again, allow myself to do the Jets, but do you remember the Sack Exchange?

The New York Sack Exchange, that was a fucking dope. Dude, the greatest, the greatest show on turf was pretty cool. I had, obviously, the Bad Boys, the Pistons, just being called Bad Boys, is pretty dope. Yes, famous. Yeah. I thought you might have said the captain. The captain's, I mean, you think of the captain's great. I just really went more with the team.

The team, like, I couldn't do the Purple People leaders because I didn't really know that Vikings team, but that's a cool one. The hogs. There's just so many. So let us know yours. We left out a bunch. Good ones. Who was your number one again? You went Bash Brothers?

I went Fab Five. Fab Five. Fab Five. Fab Five. Fab Five. Bronx Bombers. I could have had showtime one easily, but. I like that you didn't go full homer on me.

I appreciate it. All right. Well, that's it for today. Thanks again, the Bonzie Wells. Go check out jailblazers. Untold jailblazers on Netflix right now. And we will be back next week.