Throwbacks with Matt Leinart & Jerry Ferrara - Timberwolves Assistant Micah Nori On What Makes Anthony Edwards and Kobe Special, Coaching Rookie Jokic and His Coaching Journey

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

Minnesota Timberwolves lead assistant coach Micah Nori joins the show to talk all things Wolves and Anthony Edwards. He compares Edwards to young Kobe, discusses being on the wrong coaching end of Kobe’s 81-point game and Klay Thompson’s 37-point quarter, reveals what it was like to coach a young Nikola Jokic and scheme against him later and more. Finally, Micah looks back at his interview process with the Knicks for their head coaching job and talks about his desire to eventually get a lead role in the NBA.  Plus Matt and Jerry recap the Super Bowl and pick their favorite NBA Dunk Contest dunks of all-time.      New episodes of Throwbacks drop every Thursday. Make sure you’re subscribed on YouTube and following on all podcast platforms. Also, make sure you’re locked in on social @ThrowbacksShow on all platforms for highlight moments, bonus content, and to engage with the guys & the Throwbacks community. (http://throwbacksshow.com/)      A big thank you to our sponsors:    Wendy’s  Get yourself a $4 Biggie® Bites, $6 Biggie Bag®, or a $8 Biggie® Bundle. Now at Wendy’s.  https://m-wendys.app.link/468biggiedeals  Twisted Tea Grab a Refreshing Twisted Tea Today.  https://www.twistedtea.com/locations  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The game plan was, you know what, we're going to force it to be tough on Kobe, make him score. Well, he did. I don't care if he scores 80. Let make it tough. Well, okay. I was also on the bench with Sacramento when play got 37 in the third on like seven dribbles. So thank God.

You don't want to hire me as your damn defensive. All right, everybody, another episode of throwbacks. If I sound a little sad, it's because football's over. But don't worry, we're going to turn it around. We are going to talk hoops. I get to talk boots later today. There we go. This is the time of the year where Jerry all of a sudden lights up like a Christmas tree.

We get to talk NBA for the next four months. Yes. And we have a cool NBA guest. We'll talk about him in a second because he needs his own proper intro. But Maddie, you were out there. I unfortunately did not make it. It was a combination of baby being born. My two older kids went down with the flu.

I ended up watching the Super Bowl with the flu on my cell phone undercovers while sweating out of fever. I mean, listen, man, excuses are like holes. Everybody has one. That's what they say. I didn't have my flu game in me, but how was all in all before they get to the game, how were the vibes in San Fran? You know what? The vibes, well, first of all, hot take, Super Bowl should always be in Las Vegas.

Super Bowl should always be in Las Vegas. I get it. I just, I don't understand what we're doing, trying to bounce around. And I get it for the city itself. but like Super Bowl should be in Las Vegas, Nevada. It is the epicenter. It is built to host. It is the best.

I will say this. San Francisco, the energy was good because San Francisco is a really unique, cool city. If those of you've been there, you know, if those of you haven't, obviously you've seen pictures, like it's a really cool city on the water and all this, up, the history, the architecture, all that. Obviously, the city has taken it over the last handful of years to say, loosely. But I will say this. The vibes are good. I enjoyed it. You know, we walked around. The parties were fun. I saw a lot of old friends. You know how Super Bowl weekend is, man. It's like event to event to event and you do this and you do that. And then by the time the

game rolls around, you want to go home. I actually went home Saturday night. But we did the throwbacks triple option pod, which was going to saw the guys. Saw the guys out there. So all in all, It was great. I always enjoyed that weekend. It should be in Vegas. It's actually in L.A. next year, which is great. But it should be in Vegas every year. And then just the game, you know, like obviously happy for Sam Darnold and the Seahawks.

You know, a lot of the narrative was his journey and, you know, how everybody wrote him off and the path of quarterbacks. And we talk a lot about it on the show. It's pretty remarkable the redemption story. If you really think about in the history of the sport, like what, five teams in eight years, been thrown to the wool. all these things, and then he ends up winning a Super Bowl. And by the way, just his balled. Like, he didn't have to do much in this game, obviously, but over the last two years. But he did what he needed to do in the playoffs, too.

So shout out to the Seahawks, your Super Bowl champs. That was a dominant defense. Sam did great. Kenneth Walker was outstanding in the MVP. I got a good story about Kenny. And Drake May, keep your head up, man. Drake May is a star. Patriots probably overachieved this year.

but NFL is the best. It's a great season. culmination with the Seahawks being your Super Bowl champs. So before I ask you a few questions about the game that I have for you, give me your favorite party and then your favorite running. And it doesn't have to be necessarily a famous person. Favorite party and your favorite running. Good question.

Favorite party? Favorite party. And it could be because the food was good. Like it could be a random. Yeah. I mean, I didn't really eat too much of the parties. The favorite, I would say probably my Draft Kings party Friday night was pretty legit. And I hung out with Portnoy a little bit.

Run-ins, I mean, run-ins. Actually, you know what? The best running I had that night, I ran into two run-ins. Larry Fitzgerald, I ran into Friday night. Your receiver. Your wide receiver won. The night before he got inducted into the Hall of Fame. So he made the Hall of Fame, which is awesome.

so I hadn't, we text, but I hadn't seen him in a while, so we caught up for like 10, 15 minutes. That was pretty cool. So I got to run into him. And then honestly, dude, my favorite run-in was Anquan Bolden. I had both my receivers. I hadn't seen Anquan or talk to him in 15 years, for whatever reason. You know, he's quiet.

He kind of does no thing. I'm in the lobby, and he's talking to T.J. Hushmanzada. And I just get in. And I know T.J. He's L.A. I know T. I talk to him all the time.

because of flag football and all this kind of stuff. And I go up to TJ what up and then Q goes, Matt, I go, shit, Q what up. It was like the coolest thing, man. We caught up for a couple minutes. It was just good to see him because I always talk about it. I said it's like one of my favorite teammates of all time and one of the best pure football players I've ever seen. I hope he gets in the Hall of Fame. I don't know if he will, but man.

And then, dude, just, you know, obviously I saw James. I saw James on the red carpet at EA. That was fun. You know how it is. You just run into everybody and you kind of say what up and then you kind of go about your way. But tons of great run-ins, but seeing my old teammates was the best. I think, and you would be a far better judge. But as a fan of the game watching football for almost 40 years, I think Anquan Bolden is one of the toughest I've ever seen.

Because I think of this one play when someone on the Jets in the end zone speared him in the face with his helmet. I was on that team. And he broke his face essentially. So what happened? Yeah, dude, it's the craziest thing ever. And he, like, played next week or two weeks later or something.

So we're playing, it was when Brett Farr was on the Jets. On the Jets. We're playing in New York. And Kurt throws a, it was like, it was, you know,

four vertically, or three by one seams, and he throws a seam. And I think it was Jim Leonard that hit him. I'm almost positive. Anquan goes up and just, boom,

and just lays lifeless. Honestly, I'm getting chills. Think about it, because we were like, oh shit like that's bad because then you start to think the worst I walk up to a man and

he's like eyes back of his head we're all kind of there we kind of gather around long story short he breaks like his orbital bone he breaks his jaw and other fractures we I think he was supposed to miss like six weeks or so I think his

his jaw was wired shut he played he played two or three weeks later we had a buy stunned Yeah, he played three weeks later and we're like, this, this dude, I always say this, this is like one of the few guys in the league that now it's different right now. All these kids, a lot of these guys could probably play both ways.

But like back then, like, I was like, Anquan is a great receiver. He could probably play outside linebacker or safety. Like, you know, he was just such a great football player. But yeah, man, we, dude, one of the toughest dudes I've ever met. We've been cool to get a video of like the three of you all together. Because someone did send me a video

of like James and Scataboo, like lining up. Yeah, that was, so they were on the red carpet for the EA party. Yeah. James was doing stuff with Kay Adams. Yeah. And, and Scataboo and Jackson Dart were together. I didn't get a chance to see them, but I saw Mendoza. I mean, gosh, you know, man, you just see everybody. I talked to Mendoza for a while. He's so funny, man. You know, catch up with, gosh, who else do you catch up with a lot of guys, man. So I'm going to give the audience my, uh, I'm a fever dream slash one of the greatest bets I've ever made in my life. Now, stick with me for a second and try and follow this. So I bet a lot of basketball, right?

We have a great basketball guest coming up. We're going to talk about that in a second. We're going to talk hoops for the rest of the show after we talk Super Bowl. So I like to throw in these like eight or nine leg parlays on props, usually involving the Knicks, but very safe, like not long shots. Like Jalen Brunson, one three, cat, six rebounds. So the odds aren't insane at all. So I put in the 10 leg last week.

And I saw it was like plus 400. I bet I think 60 bucks to win like 300. And it hits, right? I hit all 10. But then I don't get paid. So I'm looking in the app and I'm like, why didn't I get paid? As I'm scrolling, I see 60 to win 3,000. I'm like, wait, what?

I from a day before had a bet slip with a Super Bowl MVP. MVP pick that I was toying with that I guess I didn't delete and somehow this Knicks 10-leg parlay attached to that. So I have this 10-leg hit and the Super Bowl MVP pick, Matt, I shit you not, was Kenneth Walker at plus 800. So the whole bet in its entirety was 60 bucks to win 3,000. How excited were you? Well, at first I was mad because I'm like, oh, I had this 10-leg, nice little $300 victory,

which is hard to win bets. So I just thought it was a dead ticket. So then the game starts. Now, I'm sick all week and I'm in bed with the flu. I'm watching on my phone. I see Kenneth Walker with the big first half. I doze off somewhere in the third quarter,

wake up, and I start seeing, oh, Myers is kicking all these field goals. Yeah. So now I'm like in hedge mode. I'm thinking I should throw, because his odds were still like plus 1,200 or something. I should throw 100 bucks on Myers to win. These are going to be the two guys.

Sissue Hedge. And then I thought I put a bet slip and I swear Matt. I thought I placed bet. I fell asleep again for like 10 minutes because it was fever. And then I woke up midway through the fourth quarter, never put the bed in and Kenneth Walker hit. So I literally won a $60 parlay to win three Gs on Kenneth Walker to win Super Bowl. Why are you falling asleep at 5.30? Because I had the flu, bro.

I had 102 fever. Man. And also that game was, that game was terrible anyway. Yeah, it wasn't real. That's why I want to... First of all, it's like, Drake May, you had to think was still hurt. I'm not trying to excuse his play,

but I will say, Matt, I don't know how closely you were, like, if you were on the couch for the first quarter. Those first few darn old passes were shaky as shit. Like, the patch jumped routes. Well, the first pass of the game

almost was a pick. They ran like that little out. They ran like a little stick route to the tight end, and he caught it. But yeah. I was worried for him because they were on him

and he was still, but he kept, throwing it. And then like, I don't know, I just felt like Rable was waiting for the darnold mistake that just never happened. Like, the Pats are playing for the Seacocks to make a mistake. Listen, I think this was one of those games where I just, for me personally, I was telling people, and again, I didn't know what the outcome is going to be, but I was telling people, I'm like, don't overthink this game if you're betting. Seattle is a much better team. They just are. And again, you have a dominant, you have the number one defense in all of football.

going up against a Patriots offense that's like, I don't even want to say it's smoke of mirrors, but like, Drake May is a star, you know, but they don't really have, like, they didn't scare you, you know what I mean? Like, they didn't really have, like, Stefan Diggs isn't the player he was seven years. And they haven't played a good game in like four weeks.

So it's like, you know, they were kind of coming in like, like, like Seattle's like, I guarantee you those meetings that defense says like, dude, they're not going to score a point on us. Like, I just guarantee that. And then on top of that, you combine that with, one, the Patriots defense, I don't know, it's playing pretty well,

but still not, like, not an elite elite defense. And you had JSN, you have Kenneth Walker, you had Sam who's playing really well. Barner was awesome, too. Yeah, it just, it was one of those things where it was fairly lopsided if you really dive into it. I thought that's why a lot of people were on

Seattle and the spread and the number. But like, yeah, so like I thought Sam played well. I mean, he had a great, you know, great pass to Cooper Cup early on the sideline. He just did what he had to do. And they leaned on the run game. And that's all they had to do in that game. And Drake made, like, I would just say, like whether he was hurt or not, like their offensive line got beat up. He kind of knew that was going to happen. He's young, man. Like they just need to, like, and Frable's outstanding, but they just need to get some guys around him.

Like, they need to get like a boy receiver. Yeah, get a number one. You know, the running back, like, Trayvon Henderson is a good young running back. But get that guy, a guy on the outside, you know, because again, the whole narrative after is like, well, they'll be, it's like, it's like, dude, it's hard to get back, though. I mean, you still got Buffalo in there. You know, these teams are going to get better. and the schedule obviously was it was the easiest schedule in the NFL this year. So, but yeah, man, Sam did his thing. And again, that Seattle defense was suffocating. I mean, and I just saw them and the Rams are the, what, the highest odds to win it next year.

I mean, think about that, the Rams. Think about that. It's like, that was the Super Bowl, Matt. Yeah, that was the Super Bowl. We knew it. And you can just see the difference between Stafford and the coaching of an offense and the playmakers they have

as opposed to like what Drake Bay. and all that, you know, because, I mean, Stafford lit up that Seattle defense multiple times this year. Did you see any of the Julian Love wired up stuff? Yeah. So he was coming on. Yeah, he was coming off just going, man, his young boys, like, they plant that back foot, but they wait that one second. He's like Stafford was planting that back foot and that balls already in the air. It's just, yeah, it's just, yeah, but that's, that's, that's the experience, man.

I mean, that's, like, Drake Mays is as a young star, man. He's going to be a great player for a long time. He just, that just, that happens with, with reps experience. Stafford played 18 years, dude. The dude's been doing no-look passes for a decade when Drake May was still in middle school. Well, I thought it was an A-plus football season, even though the Super Bowl game wasn't the greatest game. It still was entertaining in spots. I think all in all the season was an A-plus.

And now, obviously, we get to reset things. I'm hopeful for my giants. But I'm really looking to, we talked a little bit off the air of, you know, Sam's one of the best redemption stories in the NFL we'll ever see, right? Super Bowl champion. and I like that he was at Disneyland with Kenneth Walker, people giving him shit. They invited say, would you want to be Kenneth Walker going alone?

It's not like Sam like, like, yeah, it's not like Sam went on his own. Yeah, like, come on. Like, I would love, if I got invited to Disneyland, I'd be like, hey, Matt, want to come? Like, I would invite my boy. So, but I am trying to figure out who's the next kind of comeback guy.

It might take a few years for it to happen, you know, because I don't think we're not going to get one of these a year. Baker sort of rebooted his stuff. Basically, a lot of guys who went through the Panthers system. But there's some interesting names out there of guys who definitely need redemption. Daniel Jones was certainly seen like he was on his way. Like, is it Kyle Murray? You know what's an interesting one?

And I'm just thinking about this now is like they made the playoffs this year is Bryce Young. Yeah, he still. I don't think Carolina is like this Super Bowl contender, but they did make the playoffs. But you look at kind of like he got benched this year. I mean, he got benched for Andy Dalton, right? That's right. And then came back and led them to. And, like, he's been kind of this up and down for three or four years.

And a majority of it surrounding him has been sort of negative, you know, like, eh, like, there just isn't a lot of positive. Like, that's one that could be interesting. Yeah. I mean, it's all. I mean, then you could look at the big guys. Like, I mean, Josh Allen, Stelson won. Burrow hasn't won in a long time. Lamar, like, the big name guys who are always there.

Herbert, like now I think surrounding with some new staff and all this. Like it's going to be interesting, man. That's why the NFL is the best because the parody is so great. This year was just so weird going to the playoff because you had like, you could have picked any of these teams to win it, really, right? I mean, at the end of the day, the number one defense prevailed. I mean, that's what happened and a good running attack, which is typically what happens, Jerry, in the playoffs.

Awesome year. And I'll be sad until it comes back. But I'm starting to get into like basketball mode, masters coming up in April. Sticking with hoops. And again, I don't know how you pulled this off, Matt. Like you're, you, I know you don't want to be a guest booker by day, but some of these I mean, I should be getting paid for guest booking.

I would be down for you to get some extra money because I don't know how you've got our guest today, an NBA-centric coach. He is an active coach who is currently like on his way, probably as we're recording this now, to go coach somewhere and he's scouting for someone. Do you want to take the table here? Because you know him. This is your friend. I'm curious how you guys even know each other. The lead assistant coach for the Minnesota Timberwolves is Micah Nore.

Micah is joining our throwback show today. I met Micah kind of long, the long story short, Finchie, who's the head coach, who's great, Micah is great. There's a connection there with A-Rod, who is an owner of the T-Wolves. Yep. Fox, our producer, Bardia, shout out to Bardia, my guy. who got to know these guys through A-Rod, you know, being around basketball and all these kind of things. Finch and Micah have come to Big Noon kickoff a handful of times over the years.

Whether they're on the road playing in Cleveland or whether it's Michigan, Ohio State, like Micah came, I believe, last year before. He brought his family out to Michigan, Ohio State. So, like, I just got to know these guys. And I got to know Micah really well. We texted on. He's just an awesome guy. Yeah. And he's a hell of a basketball coach.

So, you know, with the NBA going on, football over, we got an All-Star kind of coming up. We hit them up and just say, hey, come on, let's talk some ball. Let's talk. Let's talk NBA now where they sit. Obviously, they're a perennial playoff team over the last couple years. The gauntlet of the West and how you defend some of these players. And most, he's got the, he's been coaching over 20 years in the NBA. He was with Toronto. Think about the guys.

He's coached Charles Oakley in Toronto. Vince and T-Mack. He coached. Yokic for a couple years. He's coached Anthony Edwards, obviously, over the last handful of years. He is, he is, he was, he was on the Raptor staff when Kobe went for 81 and he tells that story. He's been around. He's going to be an NBA head coach. Yeah, the Knicks interviewed him before they hired Mike Brown. And famously too, for those of you still want, like he, remember when Finch got hit on the sideline and messed up his knee, we talked about that because Micah,

was next man up. He was on the front line while Finch went to the second row. And then the best part about Micah Norrie besides his basketball acumen is, I don't know, you know, he's the assistant coach. He comes out after halftime

and has to do those interviews and he works in what these funny, did they come up with these funny things to say beforehand? Is that how it goes? I think it's because, you know, they get, they're so boring and so like,

oh, like, yeah, we need to box out better. We need to be better on the fast break. So I know this for a, fact, because he and I have done this on Big Noon, he gets together with his staff and they come up with some funny phrase to say that he has to get into a pregame or a halftime interview. And that's what makes it even better when you listen to it. Well, there's a great cut up on Twitter of Mike and Norrie's best ones.

So let's play this clip so you know what we're talking about. And the first one for me is my favorite thing of all time. Let's play it. Mike and Norrie, sideline interviews. Nothing fast rate points. Boom goes to dynamite. There goes our lead. We got to treat Bain like you do the elf on a shelf on Christmas morning.

You got to find him. He makes everybody comfortable. He's like popcorn during Saturday night movies. Our paint defense was like 7-11, open 24 hours. Realize they had it's on like Donkey Kong the way they started out. First time all year that we're kind of on almost like a hot mess express. It's just stellar. The best part is he keeps a straight face knowing that he's just being an idiot doing that with his coaches.

He's asked you to work something in on Big Noon. Yeah, I've gotten stuff in on Big Noon during a live show or even like a taped. And our producer, Barty, will be in our ear. Hey, remember, get in, boom goes to dynamite on this, what you say. Like this year, like, I got in like the whole 6-7 craze, right? So I got in a 6-7 reference, deadpan talking about whatever, six, seven yards per game. And I was just like, yeah, he's averaging about 6-7 yards per game. And I did the hand gesture, but dead serious into the camera and the boys Mark and Brady next to me,

look at me and they just start laughing. They're like, you've got to be kidding me, dude. The elf on the shelf is fantastic too. The elf on the shelf is great. Yeah. So, yeah, Micah, Micah's fantastic, man. And again, like I said, he's a future NBA head coach, whether it's this cycle or the next. He's going to be, he's going to be a head coach here sooner than later.

I agree. I agree. Well, we're kicking, we're kicking the Micah in a second. It is All-Star weekend coming up. And we thought for our Wendy's fresh take, it's only fitting to stick with basketball. And we're going to do that. right now. So it's our fresh take of the week presented by Wendy's. Get yourself a $4 biggie bites, $6 biggie bag or $8 biggie bundle now at Wendy's. So, Matt, I thought we should just talk, dunk contest because I think it's the only part of All Star Weekend that I still understand what's

happening. And that you actually... Yeah, and that you actually tune into to at least see if it's any good. Yeah. And I think we should name a few. We could do three or just whatever calls to you. Not favorite dunk contests, favorite dunks from any dunk contest. Well, first, I want to say, when I was growing up, they were like, at this time of the year, there were two things that you would almost schedule things around, right? One was like March Madness. When you grew up, you were like, man, I got to, if you got to miss school for March Maddena, I think I missed school, like, or you got, you were home sick. Like, I just loved watching like Thursday March Madness. Or you would come home and watch it, right? And that still exists today, for the most part.

The other one was the dunk contest, dude. Because you and I, about the same age, I mean, you grew up in, you know, like the late 80s, 90s dunk contest when it was Jordan and it was Dominique and it was Spud Webb. Sean Kemp came around. Sean Kemp in the 90s, like Jason Richardson in the 90s. Kobe in the 90s. And the slam dunk contest was just a can't miss whether it was Saturday night. You didn't go. You were glued to the TV to watch.

the freaking slam gun slam dunk contest so i do want i say that because like i'm not going to really say any jordan dunk like jordan there's there's probably a hundred better dunks than what jordan did when you actually look at it but like he was the trendsetter it was the aura of jordan it was the it was the flying in the air it was the gold chain it was the tongue out like he is iconic there's no question he's an icon um so i guess i'll give all just i'll just give my top three and then or my three favorite ones and then you go if that works. 2003 Jason Richardson Dunk, the lob

between the legs, baseline, and then he kind of threw it. Yeah, it kind of throws me in there. Like, yeah, it was just just ridiculous. The Zach Levine, which I'm sure we're both going to have Zach Levine, he rivals Vince Carter is maybe the greatest dunker of all time. The 2016

free throw line for me through the legs. And just like, I mean, just like with ease. And then the favorite one 2000 NBA dunk contest with TMAX Steve Francis was Vince Carter and for me

it was the 360 windmill dunk just and it's just like the cupping like he's flying in the air he's still going up as he's already doing it's like turning the opposite way

it was crazy I got I mean I got goosebumps you just watch it you're like and Vince Carter is like 6 6 6. I mean I know he's listed 6 7 but he's not that much taller than me. He's like 6-6-6-6-5, kind of like MJ. So it just looks like they're flying through

the air, man. I mean, gosh, I don't know. I could name, I mean, I left out a million of them, but I can name 100 of them. But those to me are kind of three that I remember like, goddamn, how did he do that? We got to remember to ask Mike and Norrie, because he coached both Vince Carter and T-Mack up there what those practices would like, because I'm sure he saw some shit. No, those are all, those are all undeniably great. Yeah, for sure. Before, we get to your guy for your dunks, who would you pay money to see to be in the dunk contest? I imagine Anthony Edwards is one. But if you could get three or four guys in today's NBA right now that you want to see

square off in the dunk contest, who are they? Ant for sure. Because I do think if he did it, he's so competitive. He was going to win. He's not going there to like, I think if it's like healthy job, like I don't know how healthy job is these days. If you give me a job from like two years ago where he still has his legs and he's healthy,

I'm like all in on that dude. VJ. Edgecombe. Give me Vijay Edgecombe on the Sixers. That dude looks electric. And then like I do want like just a pure dunker. Like not necessarily Mac McLong, but I mean, I don't know. Who's like the best?

Like I loved, all right. So one of my guys, here's what I would put in as just like my pure dunker. Can we, I mean, even Zion now. I just don't think, like, I would worry about his safety. I would worry about him. Yeah, but that aside, like, you had a dunk contest with Zion, Jha, Anthony Edwards.

Are you kidding me? And VJ. Edgecove. Trust me, Vijay, Edgecold. You could throw VJ in there. I mean, he's, you know, he's a young buck, but I'm just saying, like, I'm glued. Like, I don't even know. I don't even know who's in the dunk contest this weekend. Well, you know who I used to love watching?

He's not a big name, but he's a great dunker. he's on my list for is Derek Jones Jr. Yeah. Because he on Miami had that dunk where he basically caught it, went through his legs, dunk, and it led us to the Dwayne Wade meme. Like he's in that outfit in Miami with the glasses where he's to, it's one of the best NBA memes of all time that was off of the Derek dunk. So that one's up there for me.

My number two, Aaron Gordon over the mascot, but under his legs. Yeah, that's ridiculous. And I know we give 610 dudes a hard time. Like, oh, you're in the dunk con, you're 610. How hard is it? Try being 610 and lifting your legs. Well, his ability to float and, like, hang at 610 is ridiculous. Like, he looks the same as someone like Zach Levine and 66, like, flying through the air.

Like, his dunk. I'm telling you, that dunk contest was unbelievable. And for me, it's Vince Carter. It's the, when he did the elbow in the hoop thing, you could say now, that that's not, okay, I get it. Probably 90%, if not 99% the NBA could do that, right? But we just didn't even know you could do that back then. And it's not even like, it's not even creative when you look at it, but it's just,

you're just like, wait, wait, wait, wait, what happened? Oh, he put his elbow crease. Right, like that in the Twitter generation, not seeing that, people would have lost their mind. And I think that is, it's not the greatest dunk. but as far as iconic and also never saw that before and that's the problem of the dunk contest now. We've seen everything. We've seen so much.

It's so hard for these guys. I will say, I will say Jor MJ's where he, like he'd roll the ball like this and he did his little windmill like that. Yep. That shit. I mean,

well, there's one two MJ did where he jumps up with the ball high, right? And then he reverses under the hoop and he brings it back down. But then like when he stuffs it in, His elbows, like in the, he almost did the elbow thing while wrapping underneath the hoop. It didn't really get as much hype as it should have. I mean, Dominique, Dominique was a great dunker too, man.

Well, that's just like power. You want to talk about like, power, two hands just cockback all the way. If they had, like, you know those punch machines that tell you how hard you punch? If they had that with like how hard you would dunk, Dominique Wilkins would have the high score on that. So we agree Vince Carter is the greatest dunker of all time. I think so, but like, it's hard to ignore Levine. and Gordon though. But I think like Carter in that generation,

I think would have been toe to toe with Levine and Gordon. Oh, for sure. That's like, and that's like the greatest matchup you could have had. So shoutouts to Wendy's. We're going to ask Coach Mike and Norrie about some of these guys

because he coached a lot of these people that we just talked about. So let's get into, I can't believe you got an active coach during the year, Matt. Shoutouts to you. You're getting extra Wendy's money this week. This one gets me fired up, boys.

Our guest was once the captain of the Indiana Hoosier's baseball team, where he also did a stint as a hitting coach, a former statetician for the Middletown High Junior Varsity Basketball Team. He's partially responsible for Kobe Bryant's 81-point game. We're going to get into that a little bit later. He is known, maybe more importantly, for his strategic basketball insight and colorful and memorable sideline interviews.

He currently serves as lead assistant coach for the Minnesota Timberwolves and a buddy of mine, Coach Micah Nory. Coach, what's up, man? How you doing? Thank you for having me. I'm excited. Dude, I don't know who's more excited me or Jerry because Jerry is the basketball nut on this pod, but you know I love you, man. I always love seeing you during the fall.

And to get you on throwbacks is a real treat for us. No, thank you for having me. I'm excited as well. No, this was good because, like, Matt's always down the talk hoops. He's a little bit more of a playoff guy. Like, he really locks in around the playoffs, but he enjoys watching. me sweat. I'm excited because for years I've been watching

you and the sideline quotes, right, and in-game quotes that we get. With the minute you said, we played the mashup that I'm sure you've seen floating around Twitter, we played it in our A block for our audience. The minute you went, boom goes to dynamite, you stole my heart with that one.

Because to me, that's one of the best moments in sports media is boom goes to dynamite. Yeah, for sure. I think it was, what was he doing? I think it was a kid from Ball State or something and it. And there was the pacer clip with Reggie Miller and all that. And yeah, that was a good one. And again, all that stuff started because those halftime interviews to me, like, okay, you have a coach out there and you're sitting there like, what do you think? Oh, we need to box out more.

We need to rebound more. And they just seem so very mundane, very monotonous and very boring, for lack of a better term. So kind of came across that we were joking around one time. Coach Malone in Denver was like, you know, we used to try to get things into pregame speakers for personnel, just to try to keep guys in tune. all that. And so then I was like, well, why don't we try this? And then it came to the thing where guys started saying things, I bet you can't say this, I bet you won't say this, I bet you won't say this. I bet you won't meow. I bet you won't do that. And it was like, all right, so what? So we just try to figure out and I have gone with it. Jerry, Micah and I have texted when I'm on

Big Noon and I'll say, hey, I'm going to get this line in on live TV. And I've done it. And we sent you the clips, man. It's freaking hilarious. It just can, you know what? It keeps it, it keeps it fun and entertaining, obviously. Oh yeah. You got Tom and Jerry in. Remember? I got Tom. That's it. That was Tom and Jerry. I was thinking, I was like,

was it Wiley Coyote. It was Tom and Jerry. And we don't need to go into the history of Tom and Jerry. But, I mean, listen, a lot of news this week for the T-Wolves. A little scrummage happened in the game.

What goes through a coach's mind when you see the players just out there throwing haymakers? It's funny. I've evolved. I think, you know, when I first started the NBA 28 years ago, I'd be one of those ones thinking run out there and try to break this up and all that.

Now I'm the first one to turn to the bench and say, hey, guys, don't go on the floor. It's a lot safer there. You know, we have, and now the staffs are so big, and there's a lot of young guys that are all gung-ho to run out there and try to break it up and all that. But the first thing is, obviously, you hope that nobody throws a punch because then you're talking, number one, break a hand, all that type of thing. Not later, but just you don't want to deal with suspensions and all that type of thing. But, and I will say the ones that have been of late, and, you know, Nas has been in a couple of them, but the ones we had with Detroit, you look at Detroit's last night, these things are getting a little more serious. Usually you think of the basketball fight for nobody wanted to hit anybody. They're just looking for someone to stop them. Yeah. Now, we seem to get a lot more serious. So, no, you will not see me in the middle of those scrums breaking those things up for sure.

Well, I remember, yeah, I'm a Knicks fan. I grew up in New York in the 90s. And I remember watching that playoff series with the heat in 90s. And it was a hotly contest. the battle and there was a big brawl and Knicks players left the bench and I only think I knew that rule and that rule wasn't really enforced in a long time and for game seven or maybe was game five back then I think the Knicks were down three starters so I do remember every coach after that fight breaks out and literally the job was to hold every player on the bench so that's why I was interesting to see Stewart escape the coaching staff onto the floor in that Detroit brawl yeah yeah I think that one you're talking about there was the one when van gundy was hanging on Alonzo's leg.

Remember that? And then I can be caught him with it. Anyway, so yeah, there were some. Are you a hang on the leg guy? I feel like you would get in there if you had to or the guy. Micah would be throwing some blows in there if you could. And then the one I got to tell on myself, we did. The one year I ran out and I still was holding my clipboard, which was an awful look.

And guys were like, Mike, you can't be running out there holding your clipboard and left hand. And so it's just, yeah, so it at the end of the day. But again, there's usually a lot more jaw and that type of stuff. and guys acting like they're going to do things, but who knows? Well, we got All-Star Weekend coming up. You guys get a little bit of a break, and you guys are sitting right now currently at the thick spot right behind my Lakers.

I thought I'd get that in there. But how would you assess the squad so far this year, man, and kind of just the temperature of the team and getting ready for the rest of the home stretch here? Yeah, it's been up and down. I think, you know, we started off kind of hovering right around 500, and then went on a five-game win streak and then lost five games here recently before winning a, like, I think, four in a row right after that. So it's been up and down for sure, been relatively healthy, which has been good.

I think the biggest thing for us, the biggest difference this year was Nikiel Alexander Walker. He went down to Atlanta, signed down there as a free agent. And, you know, just because we're up against the cap and money-wise and all that really couldn't add a whole lot and was relying on some young kids. And so our bench last year, I think we were fourth in the NBA in scoring. And this year, at one point, we were right around 26 or 27th. Had a nice pickup with the I.O. Just came over from Chicago. He had 20 plus points last night.

So up and down, I think the biggest thing is trying to secure and make sure that our bench is solid. Because last year, we go to a bench of basically was Nikiel Alexander Walker, Dante Devinchenzo, obviously, former Nick, and Nas Reid's six man of the year. You didn't lose a whole lot. And so this year, bench had struggled a little bit. with Dante now starting and still just relying kind of on Nas. So hopefully we get that short up with the addition of I. O, get him incorporated and everything, got a few days, almost, you know, a week. So some practices to get him caught up as far as what we're trying to do offensively and like that.

So been up and down, but the West is, I tell you, it's right there. I think we were fourth. We were half a game behind San Antonio when we played them recently. They beat us. And then next thing you know, we were seven. So, I mean, it's like every day you're either wake up. We're either looking at fourth or seventh or eighth or eighth. You know, it really makes such an interesting debate amongst my friends,

because we always kind of debate the play and turn in it, right? Because on one level in the East, you know, it is excited. It spices things up in the East. Let's just say that. You're taking some teams that maybe don't necessarily belong in the playoffs and you're spicing up and maybe they get out at the right time. But then when you go to the West, making the 8th seed in the West before the playing is a legitimate accomplishment.

And I also think it's very scary for a one seed to play. Like if you, for some reason, I don't think that would happen, but to like have to face Minnesota as like a seven or eight seed seems like a punishment for being one or two seed in the West. Yeah, it's a very, it's a great take by you. And reason being is like it's all matchups, right, in the West. Like there's teams that, you know, we match up pretty well. Let's say Houston, over the years we've matched up well with Denver.

But then there's certain teams that have our number like OKC obviously or whatnot. And so, but to your point, Jerry, it's all. about matchups, whether it's, I mean, yeah, home court is obviously nice. You'd like to have home court. But the thing is, too, you start home court and you got the first two and you lose one of those first two. It's gone. And so sometimes coming in as a visitor, like we did last year in LA, you steal game one. You're like, oh, shoot, now we're playing with house money, you know, on this game two or whatnot. And, uh, but at the end of the day, you're absolutely right. The West is crazy. A lot of it has to do with, uh, with matchups. And the other thing is you see,

I think that's regardless of sport, health is such. a big deal. You know, when you have guys that are, that are, you know, healthy and that, and I mean, you look at it, I think no team's been affected more by their star player. Like, you look at what Philadelphia's had to deal with Embed and George, just those two guys being hurting out. We're looking crossed over there. But yeah, it's a great take. I think the West playoffs, one through eight, it's going to be very, very, should be some exciting basketball. You talk about star player. You guys have one in Anthony Edwards. I feel like you and I have talked about them before. But what, what is, what is it about this kid that you get to see?

every day what makes him so unique. I think the fact, Matt, that he, I mean, what you see is what you get. He doesn't change for anybody. He's a great kid anymore, but he's a great guy. You know, his great personality. Teammates obviously love him. He's a lot of fun. He's not going to change for anybody. There's nothing fake. He's not worried about social medias. He's not worried about the clicks, whatever. He just is who he is and sometimes to a fault. But I tell you what, and I know that probably gets overused, but he's about as real as it gets. Doesn't have a whole lot of, I would say, hobbies. Yeah, you see the stuff with the ping pong, that type of thing.

But at the end of the day, he just, he's a hooper. He is literally a goback that just love to compete. I think that's his one hobby is just competing, whatever it is. I mean, we'll be at the end of practice. Some young guys will start a one-on-one that we're trying, and he'll jump in. Some guys are doing a shooting competition. He'll jump in. He literally just loves to compete, loves to play.

And I think the one thing that we talk about health, that availability, I think across all sports is a skill essentially now. And it's there. I think at one time we've been here, this is our fifth season, and we were looking at it. We had played 320-some-odd games, and he was available for 310 of them. So he's there all the time. And he's one of those guys, and there's a few of them in the league where on any given night he's going to do something that you either haven't seen before.

You're just going to go, wow, that was pretty, you know, especially at the level that, Matt, you played at obviously at professional levels where you see guys. do things. You were like, man. I was at the Knicks Wolves game when you guys were in New York. I was seated fortunately not that far from A-Rod on the sideline by your bench.

Tough game. Nicks won that game. But some of the crowd where I was sitting was kind of chirping during the game. And I just feel like, listen, there's some players maybe you can chirp. He's one you don't want to. But there's like some, like I'm like, why on earth

would you, not that they needed to be woken up, He was playing well, but like, why would you give him even 1% more of, let me just break your hearts right now? I was really telling people I didn't know to sit down and shut up and stop talking to aunt during the game. Because we were close enough that he could hear. And I don't want that dude having even 1% more fire in his heart. Jerry, it just happened in Toronto. It was a one possession game. He shoots an air ball.

And with about a minute and a half to go and they start jeering him or, you know, booing and this and that. And he gave it the old, all right, keep coming, keep coming. Next possession, honest of goodness, next possession, R.J. Barrett comes down to floor. He just strips him, goes in and dunk, put us up one, and then he starts doing the same thing. But he's one of those guys. It reminds me of what people used to say. Kobe, you know, we can talk about the 81, but he beat us one time in Toronto, excuse me, in L.A. It was a, you know, he had a turnaround jumper last second shot. And Alvin Williams, who, you know, coached him 28 years ago. Matt had a great comment. I said, hey, You know, we forced him into a tough shot. And he said, listen, everybody's tough shot's not the same, meaning Kobe's shot 3,000 times. And to that point,

ants like that, like all these guys, some guys aren't built for moments. They're not built for, you know, and then you look at the playoffs. And that's the thing, I think the biggest thing with Anthony

that Coach Finch always is on him about and that we have to fight and push is that, you know, he's ready for the playoffs right now, but you can't just breeze through 80 games and just kind of just play and compete and just pick and shoot. Not that he picks and chooses,

but he's going to get up for the Oklahoma cities and all this, but on any given night when we're playing teams that are struggling, just bringing it. But you know the playoffs. And you look, the first playoff series we ever had with him in Memphis, I think he had 40 as a second year guy. So you're like, okay, these moments are obviously not too big for him at all.

And you know what else personally got me a little annoyed at him? Because he went into my turf for a second. He was good in hustle. He had a good performance. movie. He was good. He acted. He performed well. I'm like, now you're even like good at that. That like, come on, man. What happened to lanes? Does he not supposed to go into that lane? Exactly. He was good in the movie. Exactly. Coach, you, you've, I mean, it's pretty cool when you look at your career. You've coached.

You mentioned Kobe. We want to get into that because I believe you were on the Raptors coaching staff when you went up against Kobe in his 81 point game. But I want to ask you this because there's so much, there's so much like basketball players are fast. to me because there's so much shit talking between guys now that have a microphone, you know, like, KD is always chirping with guys online. Like, it's just funny to me. And a lot of it now is between these eras, right? You have the older guys who talk about the new era of basketball and saying they're soft and

this and that. And then you have the new guys and say, well, these old guys can't play in this era. I mean, you've coached in different eras. You've been around the game a long time. Like, what do you make of all that? And what do you think the biggest difference is between, you know, 90s, early 2000s to the game that we watch today? Okay. Good.

I think the very first thing, let's talk about the game itself. The biggest difference to me is two things. Number one, the three-point shot. So when I first got in the league in the late 90s, teams were taking 10 to 12 threes a game. Now in any given night, I think the leading NBA team is at right around 40. and the fewest teams, we just played the Clippers. I think they're 27th in league, and they're taking 28. I think the Warriors took 55 the other night.

I think I saw that. It's crazy. But you're right. And so the three-point shot has really changed the game. And the other thing that's changed is, you know, the positionless basketball, if you will, but any more, there used to always be a four and a five. Like to go back to Jerry's Knicks, you know, we had Charles Oakley in Toronto, but, you know, Oak is your prototypical foreman.

And then even you look at back in the days of the spurs and there, when they were rolling, they had Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Now, it's kind of like there is no more four-man. It's the stretch fours and all this type of thing. I think it reminds me a little bit, man, I'm probably wrong, but like football to put it in your world a little bit. It's like, remember when they just took everybody and they moved, you know, linebackers to defense events, free safeties to, you know, like everybody got faster. And it's just a faster game now. And the other thing is, too, because back in the 90s when we first started, or I first started, excuse me, there wasn't a whole lot of offense.

I mean, playoff games, like if you can remember even the chase down block that Prince had against the Pacers or whatever, the score was like 84 to 82. And so those are some halftime scores now. So the league wanted, the league wanted more offense. The league wanted more, you know, action. And so they've changed the rules to really benefit. the offense, but the three point, the three point shot has really changed that. If you ask me, were guys tougher than, yeah, I think it was just naturally so, because again, you had,

there wasn't the freedom of movement that they forced you to have now, but when you're talking Anthony Masons and Charles Oakley's and all those guys down at the four or fives and setting screens, and it was like everybody was in the paint. Now, no one's in the paint. It's all a out game, it feels like. So those to me are the biggest differences in comparing the eras. I think it'd be very, very difficult because just the way the games were played and they're totally different. It'd be like saying, okay, is Jim Brown the best running back or is, you know, whomever that's going now? So I think it's tough. I think basketball is obviously more fun to watch now, but you do miss some of those things now. It's just essentially feels like it's a three-point

shooting contest and a free throw contest. I just miss Shaq on the block, dude. Just like inside, well, the game used to be an inside out game. Now it's just, it's not even outside. It's just all outside with a lot of guys moving. Shaq, we were in Phoenix, and this was late in his career. And my two favorite Shack stories playing against him. He was posting up against on the block in Phoenix right from our bench. And I'm screaming, you know, it looked like he was by himself. And I'm like, get Shaq.

And Chris Bosch, who's, you know, he leans out. He's like, I got him. I'm like, okay, you can see him. I mean, Shaq is just obviously a huge human being. And then we had, and rest in peace, God bless him, he sent past. But we had a guy come over from Europe and playing with us. And Shaq called to play or Phil called to play and wanted something. And Shaq Nutt said, no, solo, solo, which means post up him.

He catches on the block. He turns. He dunks. He runs back by our bench. And he's like, who the F is that? You know, just typical Shaq. And, I mean, you talk about a guy that you could do nothing with. and especially when early in his career is athletic

and when he wanted to play, I mean, my goodness, unreal. He has the most disrespectful dunk, I think, on Chris Dudley. Yeah, Carl. throws him under the hoop. Like, all Dudley could do is just throw the ball at him. And even being a Nick fan, I was like, ah, I feel bad. That was just sad to watch. That was hard to watch.

No. And, you know, you see these guys nowadays. I mean, you know, they're all huge. I mean, Wemby is the, I guess the one thing where, like, is big in the is. You're like, holy cow, but Shaq is the one human being. When you see Shaq, just, you know, the first time I ever saw Shaq in person, like, right there, you're like, my God. And then just to see that way he moved and was athletic as he was. It was scary.

But what was it like for you in like the first moment is like, okay, I'm going to get a look at Wembe tonight. Like in person, with an NBA jersey on. You got to be like, how the fuck is someone that tall. Because it's not just, physically, you're right, like strength. Yeah. But then the guy just keeps going. Like it doesn't end. It's crazy, especially like when you see, and again, you're used to these guys, these seven footers,

but when you guy is seven, six, as long as he is and does the things. And I mean, we all know that. I mean, he's going to be a problem for a long time in the West as he continues to get better and continues to fill out a little bit. And, I mean, you just can't do anything with it. I mean, I remember, like, on a smaller scale, obviously, but like, you look at Durant. Like, when Durant first got in the league in the way he would shoot and Dwayne Casey, who I worked with And Toronto always had that the best, he just said that the rim is always open to him, meaning so there is no tough shot for KD because you're not going to block his shot.

He's 6-11. You know, he gets it, he shoots it. But those guys, when they're that long, that big and that skilled, and then, and Wimby's pretty much all of those. I mean, I tell you, when we just beat them at our place, you know, our guys didn't, it just, he just takes up the whole paint. You can't see. So they're not, you know, you're like, aunt, go to the bucket. And he's like, where do you want me to go? What?

Down there, he just covers up everything. And it's kind of, then you watch, like, oh, yeah. I mean, it's just, it's crazy. How do you, with, I mean, obviously you got a long ways to go and stuff. And you're probably going to be a match up against one of these guys. And SGA is another one who's, I got a little bit of a throwback, I think, because of his mid-range and the way he can play. But how do you defend guys like that?

Like, you just bodies at them or what do you do? Yeah. I think probably the one we've played the most and the one that we've probably thrown the most at defensively is Yokic. And you kind of can go one or two ways. And I think, and he's proven to do both. It's like, how do you want to lose? You know, if that makes sense, like you sit there and so like, all right, you want to. Do you want to play him one-on-one, make him shoot twos and make him, you know, try to make him shoot tough shots and not foul him?

Or do you want to double him every time he touches it, which when you do double him, he's going to make the right play. And then you're at the mercy of those guys making threes behind it or whatever. So you basically say, all right. So for Biggs, it's kind of like, do you want to double them or let him go? With like an SGA, it's more so do you want to trap him, get it out of his hands? But also you try to get guys, we throw different looks at them. And that's why we had success, you know, the last couple of years, because Anthony Edwards can guard him as well as anybody.

Jay Daniels can guard him as well as anybody. Nikiel, who's his cousin, did a good job and competed against him. So we could throw different people in different bodies at him. But also it's just so much now as tendencies. And I think that's where analytics has really impacted. Obviously, the three-point shot, the numbers, yes. But the other thing that you can look at now analytically is guys always go back to what they're good at. Meaning if a guy wants to go left, that's where he's going to go.

If a guy's going to cross over, whatever their moves may be. And you just try and just keep on showing personnel, like try to take this away and make them have to do something else that they may not, it's not a strength of theirs or, I mean, they're all pretty much strengths, but they're not as good at, if you will. So it's always trying to change it up. The other thing, I think Chris Paul was the other one that, you know, thinking back that you would have to change. Like, if you just played the same coverage against Chris Paul for the whole game, he's going to beat you. So you'd have to switch things up, whether it be coming out of timeouts. All right, we're going to blitz them here. We'll play drop. We'll switch. We'll early double. Just trying to keep them off balance, especially the great ones. That's what you kind of have to.

Obviously, when Kobe had 81, none of it worked. Well, what do you, I mean, you were, what do you remember about that game? I mean, you were on the Raptors staff. Yes, I can say it now because it's been, you know, almost 20 years. But the reason I say that is deep down, like, and it was a regular season game. I mean, you're almost like, the game starts. It's kind of like, remember Rocky 5 when he was fighting the Russian and everybody was hating on Rocky? And at the end, everybody was trying.

The crowd turned. Yeah, you were just a fan watching Kobe. So exactly. So it was in LA. They obviously cheer, but by the like, when it got to 80, you were kind of like, oh, maybe he's going to get 100. This kind of, you know. And I know I know Jalen Rose and those guys that were defending him in Mo Pete, they probably wanted no part of it. But the game plan was kind of like what we talked about. What do you want to do? Do you want to make somebody else? But you know what? We're going to force it to be tough on Kobe, make him score. Well, he did. I don't care every score is 80. Let make it tough. Well, okay. And you know what? I shouldn't say this because. this probably this is another bad reflection. Not only was I part of when Kobe got 81, I was also on the bench with Sacramento when play got 37 in the third on like seven dribbles. So thank God.

You don't want to hire me as you damn. Yeah, but you're not, I mean, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not the defensive guru. No, and damn sorry. You're just bringing good offense out for both sides. Yeah, yeah. You're elevating the offense on both sides. So, I don't, yeah, that game, I, my,

former co-star and good buddy Kevin Connolly on Entourage. I'll never forget that day he got invited for like, hey, he got courtside at the Lakers. Like, oh, are they playing the Raptors? He passed on the game and went to go see some three-hour movie at the

Beverly Theater and he literally skipped court sides for the Kobe 81. And he's a massive Laker guy. I don't think I could ever live that down if I knew I could have been in the building for that. Well, and it's going to live forever too because I think on one of the Kobe statues outside of you know crypto or whatever they've got

the they got the score sheet that literally the score sheet on the side of the statue there I mean he just he's my all-time favorite athlete I got his jersey right here he signed for me rest in peace man he's he's my favorite athlete of all time I mean just got what a treat to be able to watch him put up 80 on your team though you know what's funny Matt you're absolutely right and what you love about Kobe. I mean, there's many things, but Kobe wasn't imposingly big. You know what I mean? It's not like, I mean, Shaq and not take anything away from those guys. Like, I mean, Shaq is seven foot, whatever. LeBron is literally six, eight. When he was in his prime, he was 260 just, you know, so those guys, and again, they're very, very steel, but Kobe, you just look.

And Kobe, you just look, and Kobe was like a normal dude, but just unreal, unbelievable competitor. And, you know, just one of those guys that, like you talk about. And there's very few of them that have it. I do believe Anthony is one of those guys, and there's a couple of them. But at any given moment, they're going to, they can take over a game. They're going to make a shot. You know, big moments and all this year. You're never too far ahead against them. And it's, it's, he was impressive. Where do you, I don't want to get into the list because you're coaching all this stuff, but where do you rank him all time as far as, because I put him to behind MJ, people have LeBron, all that. Is he up there for you? You've seen a lot of great players. Yeah.

Kobe. Yeah, I mean, Toby's, Kobe would be two or three. I mean, Michael, I mean, because I was young, it would be one for me. And I think the reason why, again, not to get into it a whole lot, but I think Michael, too, is just the greatest competitor we've, that's ever been around and just, you know, in his record of finals, this and that. But, and then Kobe and LeBron, to me are two and three. And, uh, I mean, yeah. And again, I think a lot of it is just like the way Kobe was like, you know, I think nowadays, I think we're all throwbacks a little bit in a sense that he, he, didn't, he was never buddies with guys. You know what I'm saying? He wasn't worried about being buddies or friends. I love that about him. Yeah, like the Olympic games when he ran through his teammate Gasol. That gave me chills in the dock. Like Pat Riley back in the day, like you would get fined if you were on the Knicks team and help another opposing player up, you know, like that type of stuff or dapping guys up before the game and still smiling and, you know, and I understand it a little bit more, but just, I mean, that's the ultimate competitor and, and, uh, And the work ethic, obviously, that, you know, is unprecedented, if you will, is Chris Bosch talks about that.

He said that he was on that first Olympic team. And, you know, they talk about Kobe, obviously, coming back and he's already worked out twice. But Kevin Durant said the one thing, and Jay Triano was a former head coach of the Raptors, was an assistant with them. And he said, he'll never forget. They went on a, they were having a night shooting in Vegas. And two guys were there. K.D. and Kobe were on the bus. And KD. was shooting at one end. and Kobe at the other. And I think KD, to that point was like, I looked down and I saw the work that he was putting in. And I was just, you know, and Katie was still doing extra work, like getting his shots and all this, but watch the workout and the effort and the things that Kobe was doing and kind of changed his whole mindset of this explains a lot. So pretty cool.

So really quick, when you were talking about Oakley on the Raptors, was that all, was that Vince Carter T-Mack? That was, right? So you were, you were there. during that time period because those are also now they have a podcast, cousins, for lack of a better word, because that's what they're on our very own AMP network that we're a part of. That must have been seeing those two guys at the same time coming in being that young. You almost wish those are two guys you wish could have stayed together. I don't know if it would have worked because they were both big stars in their own right,

but that was always a what if for me. Like what if Vincent T. Mack found a way to like play together for 10 years? I'd probably still be in Toronto, Jerry. Well, I feel like T-MAC is like one of the biggest what-ifs because he's one of the greatest skilled players we've ever seen in the history of the game. Absolutely. He's another one of those guys, 6-8-69 skill to handle,

could defend, you know, do a lot of, a lot of things. But yeah, so my first, I'm in Toronto. I'm an intern 28 years ago, Vince's rookie year. And we trade Marcus Camby for Oak. and Oak is coming to Toronto of all places. You know, obviously the last place we wanted to be. And so our head's at the time, Bush Carter's like, hey,

Oaks pulling up. You know, and this was a lockout too. So it was the middle of winter. I can remember in Toronto. So there's snow, there's this. And I have to go down to meet him. And Oak gets out. He's got a full-length fur on.

He's got his fedor on. And I'm like, hi, Mr. Oakley. We're here, you know, and he's pissed off because he's in Toronto. But Oak was unbelievable, obviously, for that team and changing the culture there. But Oak had some great one-liners, man, and just some great things. Like, I remember we were talking the team. And so he was like, you know, T-Mack and Vince, you guys are the lead singers. But, you know, we're the band and all that type of thing.

But at the end of the day, you still got to feed us, help us, do this, do that. And Oak was great. When I talk about culture, so I'll give you, I mean, there's a thousand of them. But so Oak said, and this was before headphones nowadays, you know, and everybody on their phone. So the music was in the locker room. And so Oak had a rule, no, no music, 45 minutes before the game. And so Oak was one of those guys that would shoot last on the floor. Then he'd come back in and 45 minutes, he walks in, comes back in from the floor, down to 44, music's still on. He goes over and unplugs it, turns it off. So I'm just telling y'all,

right now, 45 minutes, shut the music off. I'm not going to say it again. So I don't know if it, Maybe not the next home game, but maybe a week later, he comes in. The music is still on. He goes over. He flips the whole old tuner amplifier out of the wall, throws it down, doesn't say a word, and then just goes and sits down. And guess what? No more music.

But I'm one of those guys that, I mean, he was just. Yeah, you weren't messing with him, though. No, yeah, just no nonsense. But what I love about oak, I mean, many things. and is like, like things that you don't hear about. Like, um, so I remember the, uh, equipment guy, the ball boy, what the lead, uh, you know, clubhouse guy comes in. And he asked, he asked me, says, hey, do you have, I have a $100 bill. Do you have five twenties? And I was like, I don't, whatever. So he asked Oak. And then

Oak was like, well, what's it for? And he said, well, I want to pay the, um, you know, all the help like the other ball boys and all that. Just tip them. And again, this was 25 years ago. So 20 bucks for that, maybe whatever. But, and I'll never forget, Oak was like, what's it for? And he's like, it's for the ball board. And he's like, it's for the ball board. And O'Killard Well, here, and he peeled off $400 bills. Says, here, give each guy a hundred bucks,

but don't tell them it's for me. And then so, and then the other thing Oak was great about, we got to the playoffs, and he just said, all right, listen, here's what we're doing. Playoff share-wise,

we're going to take care of all these guys from the interns, this and that. And as you can know, Matt, when you're talking about splitting that stuff up, when you got guys like that,

always looking out for other people. It's really cool. And so he, Oak is an all-time favorite for sure. That's awesome. So when Vince Carter, you coached Vince's rookie year, was that the same year he did the dunk contest, the famous dunk contest of the first couple years?

Yeah, so that's great. It was the second year. And you guys remember the dunk he did when he caught himself? Yeah, he hung on a, yeah. Mind blowing in the moment. Never saw anything like that in the moment. So this is, I still believe this is where this came from because, to your point, like practices with T-Mack and Vince.

So, Butch Carter, who I've known forever, loved dearly, these guys, it's just like, they're run up and down. All they're trying to do is dunk everything. Butch puts in a no-dunking rule in practice because that's all they were trying to do. So he's like, all right, no more dunking. Well, then Vince would get breakaway and he would go. And what he would do is he would put his whole arm in and then he would let go and then pull his arm out. Not a dunk. So he didn't even touch the room. Wow. Yeah. So then that's why he would,

that's why he kind of came into. He's like, you know what? I can do this. I'll just hang on the rim. And, um, but Mugsy Boggs was the greatest hype man ever. And he was on that team. And he was trying to tell those guys what to do. And it was like really like a watching a video game saying, all right, do this. Try that. Don't do this. And Vince to this day is still, I mean, some, he's the best dunk. there is. He's the greatest dunker of all time.

It's not even close. No, it's not close. And what was awesome, too, is because Oak loved to throw lobs. And Oak would

lobs sometimes would get away from them, but those would be the best dunks because he would literally throw one to the corner of the backboard, and Vince would jump, reach back,

catch it, dunk. I mean, unbelievable. Yeah, I got to, yeah, I got to imagine.

Go ahead. No, go ahead. No, I just to run the first play of every game for Charles Oak. All right? And Butch Carter,

would run it and sometimes he'd make it. It was always a jump shot and we had one assistant coach go, why do we always run the first play for Oak? Because, you know, we could be nothing, nothing. I'll never forget, and, you know, we're on air, but he was like, let me tell you something. I don't give it if he catches it and punts it into the upper deck because he's going to get every rebound. He's going to set every screen.

He's going to guard every single action. And so, and that's all Oak won in. Give me one play. He just wanted one play. So you just got it out the way at the beginning. Yes. And then we would make it. the pastor and he just loved to throw lobs and dunks to timac and vents and all them and uh it was uh it was

a it was a fun but short-lived two years with those two guys for sure oh well that's what i was gonna say man it's probably like having a receiver like Julio jones or larry fit just a guy you can't overthrow like no matter where you put this thing i just gonna get it i just saw larry who just got in the hall of fame i just saw him at the super bowl and we were just catching up and i i was tell the story like there were a couple times when I was in Arizona and he was one of them he's a perfect example he's like Matt just throw it just throw it up and I will go get it because he was so good and he and Larry's six four like but he was so big his body control Calvin Johnson is probably the great Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson are probably the two that were like you just throw

within 10 yards and you know they're going it didn't matter how many guys were um around them uh coach there's no doubt in my mind that you're going to be a head coach in the NBA soon and you interviewed in the last couple years and all of that stuff. I'd just be curious of what you've learned about maybe yourself as a coach and what you've learned about that process. Because I think, I mean, it's right around the corner. It's going to happen. No, I appreciate that. But I think the biggest thing, I think I've had four or five interviews for head coaching jobs now. Probably the one that, you know, was the most involved was the Knicks. And I think what you learn, throughout all this time in the NBA is I used to think it was about X as and O's.

You know, how can I, you know, can we get this guy a shot? How can we get this guy a bucket? And then you think, okay, how can we mess up that end of game as far as defensively, different types of things? And it really is about being a leader as far as, you know, of getting guys to play, not only that, but then inhaling the locker room. So it's not X as and O's. It's more about personalities. And I think when you look back at the guys that have done it at a high, high level. And yes, they've had very, very good players, but like the Phil Jackson's and those type of guys that have, and even Steve Kerr.

You know, Steve came right out of the TV booth and, you know, and he had the skill with the players that he had. But just it's more about managing egos, getting guys to play and different than football because football, I think, you know, was 16, 17 regular season games. If you lose one football game, that's a five game losing streak in the NBA. So, so guys are usually, I would assume, ready to go. to play. Same thing in college now. It's almost like every game's a playoff game. And that's what we fight even now. Like how in NBA basketball, when you know that you're going to be a playoff team, as we assume that we would be, but how do you get guys to play for 82, 82 straight games and play hard to compete? And then the other thing that you find as a head coach and the way that

everything is now is probably a lot like college as well. But it's just you're almost like a CEO of all of it. And you're just so much of it is managing people. And guys have a lot of lives outside of basketball and that affects them and just everything there and keeping guys rested, keeping guys healthy. So there's so much more when I was naive enough to think that, oh, it's just X as an O's. You know, I'm just going to play call or try to out maneuver people from that side of the ball and that's, and that's not it. So I think a lot of it is that and combinations is the biggest thing, combinations of players on the floor, like rotations and how do you get guys to work together? And I think that that's really helped me in Minnesota because, you know,

the first year we had Carl Anthony Towns and then, and Nas Reed, you know, and then the next year, we had Rudy, who was, you know, more of a low block pick and roll guy with Carl. And then all of a sudden you add Julius Randall. So how do you make all these different people and players mesh together with their talents and, you know, with the group that you have and keep everybody? I'll never say happy because no one's ever fully happy. But how do you keep them engaged and playing hard?

So it's been a great process. Hopefully, like you say, one of these, you know, you break through. Like I told Joe Ingalls, who's one of my favorite people. I sound like Australia. I can get on the podium. I just take it to gold medal, right? No, you're going to get that opportunity, man. There's no doubt.

Engels is hilarious, man. Oh, he's great. Yeah, I was like, what must have been going through your mind? I still, like I said, I've been watching basketball since 19. The Trent Tucker game was like my first game I watched where I kind of knew what was going on. I was almost a Bulls fan because I'm like looking at Georgia. going, this guy's great, but I should root for the Knicks because I'm from New York, and then Trent Tucker hits that shot,

and I'm like, I'm a Knicks fan. But I've never seen the, the finish injury situation. Like, I've never seen a coach get hurt during a game at such an important, crucial time in the season. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure, I don't think you've probably seen that

in all your coaching time. So you're kind of like, what goes through your head when that happens? What goes like, you know? No, the first thing, it's funny. Like, it happened. Not funny, obviously. But it's crazy that. He goes down and we're like, oh, crap, is he all right?

And, you know, then you're worried about Mike Conley who ran him his heel playoff game. And then you're like, all right. And the next thing you know, he's like, he feels down. I never forget because he said he knew he did something because when he put his hand on his knee where he thought his knee cap should be, it was gone. I mean, it wasn't even like, oh, I sprained my knee. Yeah. He ripped his piteau. And so, and then you're like, obviously, I mean, not only is he my boss, but he's a good friend of mine.

And then you're just worried about the next thing you know, he's leaving like, okay. And then people like, oh, shit, I got a, I got a spotlight. Yeah. And so, but it was crazy. I think in all honesty, it worked out well because that was the closeout game against Phoenix. Right. And so then we had about four or five days before we went and played Denver. I think it would have been more difficult if that would have been, let's say, game two or three in the middle of that.

the games are coming that much quicker. So we had a chance to catch our breath, if you will. And I had a chance to catch my breath and really say, okay, this is what, you know, this is kind of what this is and that type of thing. So it was very, very strange. And yeah, not that. Was he sitting, he was sitting, was he sitting in second row on like a high chair or something? I remember watching him.

Yeah, he was sitting second row and had his leg out. And then I always joke with him. Like, if he was saying, I'd just stand closer to mid court. So it couldn't get to you. Act like I hear him, but it was, no, it was great. It was kind of like head coaching with training wheels, you know, because he was great. He said, I don't want it to be clunky. So coach the game like you're the head coach.

If there's something I see or want or whatever, then, you know, I will make sure that you get that in. So he was still very, very involved, obviously. But it was just very, very strange. And like he said, he's like, what more I got to do to get you a head job? My God. I faked an injury for you. I faked it. My knee is fine.

This was all for you. I'll tell you what. He's going to be sad when you leave him, though. That's for sure. At one point, he's going to be bummed. He'll be sad, but I think,

you know, he's always giving me shit. Because he's like, you know, my God. I mean, there's always something. He's like,

Mike, you know, I guess overbearing probably a little bit too much at time. But that's all right. It's all good. You know, because we all, he closed.

I told Jerry just as I've gotten to know you guys In the last couple years with football And you know just seeing you guys on the road I was like man Micah and Finch here awesome man Just two great dudes but two great coaches Coach we're gonna wrap man We appreciate you

I know you're midseason taking the time Good luck to good luck to your squad the rest of year And I know I know we gained a fan Of the T-wolves with Jerry here Even though he's a diehard Knicks fan No that's my West Coast team Yeah 80 games a year

80 games a year, cheer for the Timberwolves. The two we play in New York, cheer for the Knicks. Listen, I could have told you. You're not going to be able to keep Devin Chenzo on the bench. He always ends up a starter. That's my scouting report from the Knit. And I love Randall. Like, Randall came to the Knicks at a time where no one wanted to come to New York

and he dragged them to a four seed in his first year with not the most skilled team. So I love those dudes, what they did for the next. So I root hard for them. And also, I will say, that season with the injured, like the, the, the, the most impressed, I think I've been in the last 10 years when I've seen a team lock in was I think one of the games versus the Nuggets when I felt like the Nuggets couldn't even get the ball across half court against you. It was like an ass kicking that I have not seen.

So like from that moment, I'm like, this team is must watch because if they go to that level, they could do anything. So I've always enjoyed watching the wolves. And I'm going to continue as literally my six-year-old. son I hear is out there shooting and he's still trying to understand why the Knicks traded Yabaselli for Elvarado. I have a basketball nerd coach. I got a basketball nerd. I love it. I just wished that last year we could have got the matchup for you, Jerry, of New York and Minnesota in the finals instead of Indiana. Okay, C. You'd have been, you know, you wouldn't have been

torn, but it would have been. Hey, he would have been court side at the garden, that's for sure. Jerry's got those courtside seats. I will, I will always have tons of love. Every Knicks fan, I think has massive love and respect for Devencenzo and Randall. Massive. Like that goes on for it. And they've showed up in Minnesota too. Those guys have been great. Oh, they've been phenomenal. Yeah, for sure.

Matt, buddy, I got to thank you for that one. How great is he, man? He's awesome. And you know how much I love talking hoops? Because now I'll be fully locked in. And I still can't believe you got a current active coach who took a break to talk to us. It's basketball season, man. We just we just transition here at throwbacks.

football the hoops. You know, we talked a lot of dunk contest, so we're on the way out here, but the three-point contest is still a lot of fun. Still gives us a lot of joy. I'm looking here at the contestants and the odds. Should we make some picks here? Do you need the names, or you got them in front of you?

I got the names. You just tell me the odds. I mean, I'm already going with my boy. So we got Con Cinnipple and Damien Lillard, as of right now, plus 400. Jamal Murray, plus 450. Norman Powell, plus 500. Donovan Mitchell plus 600, Tyrese plus 650,

Devin Booker plus 750, and Bobby Portis, folks, he's been all over the place. I've seen plus 850. I've seen plus 1,700. So he is the clear long shot. If you are venturing a bet, who are you betting on? Well, I'm looking right now, Bobby Portis is hitting 46% from three this year.

It doesn't take a whole lot of them, but he's hitting threes. He's hitting threes. I mean, I'm probably, listen, I'm not going to over, what's, Connibbles at what? Plus 400. Plus 400. That's the favorite.

The Donovan Mitchell at plus 600, 650 is pretty enticing to me because he's, I'm going to, I'm not going to overthink it. I'm going to go with Great White Hype. Connoissell at plus 400 to win this as a rookie and to set the stage for years to come. I do think it could be his time. I mean, he's shooting 43%. He's a dog. I mean, Luke Kinard, my, my.

Laker now is at almost 50% from three, dude. Fuck. Give a time. That's like me on a Tuesday night at the Bay Club. You know, as much as I would love to sprinkle some dough on Devin Booker plus $750 and maybe he can win it. He's just a scorer. I don't know. I'm not just.

I mean, he's a great scorer. I guess for my money, I'd go Jamal Murray plus $4.50. A little better odds. He's like right out of the top. He's hitting 43%. Yeah, I think I'd go Jamal Murray if he catches fire. All right. So I got Concanipal.

I got Chalalmurie. We'll get back to you on the dunk content. Matt loves Jackson Hayes and the dunk. I can't even, I mean, what are we doing here, dude? What are we doing? Protest the dunk contest till we get our stars back in it. Hey, I know what we're doing. We're taking a week off and we're coming right back to you.

So we will see you guys next week. Love you football.