Throwbacks with Matt Leinart & Jerry Ferrara - What Made Kobe Bryant Special, The Redeem Team, All-Time Lefty Hoopers, Ohio State vs. Michigan and More with Michael Redd

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

NBA All-Star, Hall of Famer with the legendary Redeem Team and all-time lefty hooper Michael Redd joins the show to talk about playing against Kobe Bryant and later learning from him in their secret workouts away from the team as members of the Redeem Team in 2008. Redd looks back on his days with the Milwaukee Bucks, including his rookie season with Ray Allen, Glen Robinson, Tim Thomas, Sam Cassell and more as they made a run to the Eastern Conference Finals. Redd also talks about his favorite players from the current era, the hardest players he ever had to guard and picks his all-time best left-handed players.   Then, Matt and Jerry draft their all-time lefty starting 5, with a sixth man off the bench to boot.     New episodes of Throwbacks drop every Thursday. Make sure you’re subscribed on YouTube and following on all podcast platforms. Also, make sure you’re locked in on social @ThrowbacksShow on all platforms for highlight moments, bonus content, and to engage with the guys & the Throwbacks community. (http://throwbacksshow.com/)      00:00 Show open  03:52 Michael Redd Joins!  06:40 The Ohio State vs. Michigan Rivalry in Basketball   09:04 The toughest part of the transition from college to the NBA  11:45 What was Michael Redd’s Welcome to the NBA moment?  14:07 What made Kobe Bryant special?  14:57 Secret workouts with Kobe on the Redeem Team  15:35 What defenders kept Michael Redd up at night?   20:20 LaMelo Ball got a bad rap  21:20 Michael Redd’s 3 favorite Lefty Hoopers  24:35 Building the Redeem Team  27:45 Golf taking over the NBA  31:00 Mike’s great NBA golfers  31:40 Can dynasties exist in the current NBA?  34:20 Matt and Jerry draft their all-time lefty basketball lineups  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can you imagine how much we would have made in college? Let me tell you what, man. I would have made more in college than I did in the NFL. We paved the way for these guys. But God, it would have been nice. Okay, welcome to another episode of Throwbacks. Me and Maddie Liner, as always. Do us a favor.

Stop by the YouTube, as they call it. Go to Throwback Show. Give us a subscribe. Yes, like, subscribe. Don't be afraid, like and all that. And on all social media platforms, throwback show. Matt, today, you must have woke up feeling like your left arm must have been like, my left arm feels good today because we have another amazing lefty professional athlete joining the

show. Michael Redd. Michael Red, dude. Shout out to Mike Redd, dude. Yeah, dude, there's not a lot. You know, listen, man, we kind of, lefties kind of get labeled as a little different, a little off, a little quirky. Voodoo. Um, voodoo. Whatever you want to say, like, we're just weird, right? We're different. Like, like shout out shout out to my lefties but shout out to my lefty hoopers because I was a hooper back in the day we got the greatest

excuse my language the greatest stroke you know every lefty you could think of and Michael Red is right up there at the top man what a freaking beast dude and and again like one of like

Olympian All star like incredible player dude he's also if you're paying I you know I'm I basically go on like Twitter these days

for basketball content only he's been crushing in social media and he launched a YouTube channel. He just search his name. He's coming at basketball in a very different way from media. As you see, a lot of former players and current players, it's more about like the drama of the NBA and the stories where I think... Talking between errors.

Yeah. Michael Red has been approaching content. Like, let's really dig into some X's and O's and why this guy's good and things you might not notice as a fan that he having played the game or noticed. The cool thing about it is he's giving his flowers, to the new generation. Yes. And giving his flowers

to the old generation and like bridging the gap between the audience, right? Like it's like, hey, we don't have to talk about these kids. Like these kids are really, really good. It's just a different era of basketball. It's played differently than maybe

when Mike played or when it's played in the 80s and 90s. So like it's okay to respect and love both. And he's breaking it down and his stories are incredible. And I think he's one of the best follows on social.

media for especially for hoops and like becoming and and becoming one of my favorite players. I mean, he was still like one of my favorite players as a lefty, but is, and one of the better human beings. Like incredible interview. And also has had a great post-MBA career. I believe he's like a dog investor and he's just crushed it. So after the Michael Red interview, stick around because we are doing so, I am so excited. I can't wait for this. This is in my wheelhouse. Like this is what I would do on my own time with friends. You and I, and honestly, and honestly, of having one of the great lefty shooters are going to draft our

all-time NBA lefty lineup. Now, you got two ways to go, Matt. You could just go best available, try to get a strong five. I'm going into this. I'm drafting a team that I could put on the court that would run your team out of the building, even if you had

slightly bigger names. That's how I'm GMing this. It's a GM draft. I guarantee I know one of your top five, and I'm not even going to go there. I guarantee. I hope he's available. Maybe he might not be So, yeah, stick around for after the interview. We'll do that draft. And let's bring on the great left-handed shooting, Michael Red.

All right, joining us on throwbacks today. One of my favorite players to watch as I started my obsession with the NBA. And now he's one of my favorite follows on social and his YouTube channels crushing it. The way he speaks about basketball, both when he played and the way it's played today. Michael Red joining us on the show. Thank you so much, Mike, for coming on. It's my honor, guys. Big fan of both of you guys, and it's a privilege to be on the show with you guys.

Just a great lefty, Jerry. Just another great lefties. I'm sitting here with you. I'm humbled as a righty to be sitting here with two of the great lefties and sports. I said there's something different about being left-handed, just whether it's a hooper or throwing a football or the lefty swing. We're just like, we're just smoother. Like, everything we do is smooth.

I was telling Jerry before you came on, right? I mean, that's just, it just looks prettier, man. You know, my nickname, Matt, growing up was called Silky. Oh, there is. I think it had a lot to do with the fact that I think we were left-handed. Well, my nickname growing up was Shamu because I was 300 pounds at 10 years. Well, I mean, dude, I was, I was a pitcher. So I were talking before, I loved, I loved baseball.

I grew up in a baseball family, but I love hoops. I still love hoops. And football was sort of kind of, we don't get, kind of randomly fell into hoops as I got. older but or a fell into football but i was like probably 180 pounds in fourth grade but i was on the hill and i was just pumping gas but my my teammates nicknamed me shamu so not proud of it but you know so so not bad for just falling into football not bad not bad but but listen man i would give anything i still the one thing that i hold on to and jerry can attested outside of we've transitioned into golf now in our older years, but I just popped my calf playing rec league basketball a couple weeks

ago, man, and it was, like, devastating because I think my basketball career is over. So, but we can move on, yeah. When you were a young guy coming up, was basketball always number one sport for you? When you were a kid or did you play a lot of different sports? It was. I played, as you all know, we're similar age. We all played different sports growing up in the park. And as I got older, basketball became predominant.

But between my freshman and sophomore year, I actually had a love for tennis that superseded basketball at that point. I became a really good tennis player in high school. But ultimately, yes. In fact, when I went to Ohio State, first time meeting Coach O'Brien, who was our new coach at the time,

the first thing he said, him, is it going to be tennis for basketball? I said, basketball. I'm not going to play tennis at Ohio State, but that's how much I love tennis. I've been a part of this Ohio State, and you were obviously great at Ohio State and had a great career there, the Ohio State Michigan rivalry I've seen from a football side, which is crazy. Is it the same when you're playing a part of the basketball rivalry when you're playing Michigan? I know it's probably a little bit different. And do you have any kind of unique crazy stories from that rivalry? It is similar but different. Obviously, it's more heightened with football. No question about it. But basketball certainly, there were a rival of ours.

Indiana, when I was in school, was more of a rival than Michigan, actually, because of the Bobby Knight connection to Ohio State. And so there were great games throughout the years with Ohio State in Indiana. So I think those two schools, when I was in school, were the schools that stand out. Yeah, Michigan was always a great competition for us in basketball when we played against them. I think probably in my career, I probably split with them. but, you know, the aura of the Fav V and all of that was certainly looming over when I played

and they had great players when I played against Macy O'Bastion, Tractor Trailer, and Lewis Bullock. Tractor. There's so many different great players they had. But we held our own, though, for sure we played against those guys. Was it always OSU for you? What was your recruiting journey like? The first school to recruit me was Michigan.

And I was a Michigan fan growing up, ironically, to your point, Matt. And Jerry, I love Glenn Rice and Ramil Robinson growing up. And then obviously it went on to the Fad 5. And Jenner Rose being a left-handed player, tall, point guard, so was I growing up as a kid. And I looked at those guys tremendously. But something changed my senior year. And I didn't want to do my laundry.

And so I just want to stand at the Ohio State University. I broke 10 minutes from there. It came out of that. And also, at the time, Ohio State was a distress program, a really struggling program. And a lot of kids from my area were leaving Ohio to go and build up other programs. And I wanted to stay home and help revitalize our program. And it wound up working out. God, there's nothing better than driving down the road on mom and dad and just dropping the laundry off.

Correct. I almost went to Michigan, too. my mom almost had a heart attack. She's like, you're never going to survive out there. And I ended up staying home. When you get to the NBA, Mike, I'm always curious because, you know, in the NFL, it's just, there's these moments and all that. And you've talked about your rookie year kind of being one of your favorite years.

What was just the transition like? And what's the toughest part about the transition going from college hoops to playing at the elite level in the NBA? Well, at the elite level of the NBA, Matt, and you know this well, you're playing with the best of the best. And that's a different dynamic. And there's a different rhythm to professional sports than it is in college. Just like the transition from high school to college was. And the rhythm, the pace, the preparation, the intentionality with your craft all came

into play for me, the 20-year-old going to Milwaukee. And I had the privilege of being around incredible veterans, like I've mentioned before, Ray Allen, Glenn Robertson, Sam Cassell, Lindsay Hunter, Irvin Johnson, Tim Thomas. I had the privilege of being run great players, great people that really helped my career accelerate. But there is certainly a difference between college and pro. And a lot of it has to do with physicality and also the speed. You're playing against grown men coming in from college, which is a different dynamic. Yeah, I remember that Bucks team, your rookie year so well.

And it was Eastern Conference final team. Yep. Right? So you're a young guy coming in, watching all this. Like, I always wonder this, when you kind of taste that so early in your career, not that you would ever take it for granted, but do you think maybe like, oh, we're going to be here every year? We're going to be back here all the time because it's such a grind even to get to the Eastern Conference Finals, let alone the NBA Finals. So what was that transition like from Eastern Conference Finals team and going into your second year and you start getting the rock a little bit? How'd that go? Well, the best thing that ever happened to me was that we went to the Eastern Conference finals

my rookie year. But it wound up being the worst thing because you get spoiled by it. You think this is going to be like this every year. And I never got back to that level again in my career with the Bucks at least. And so there was so much learning for me in that year of sitting and watching. And I was able to take when I learned that year and really absorb it and really apply it to my game going forward. And yeah, it's really hard to get to the East Chicago, let alone the finals. It's hard to get to that level.

And you at that point have to have a great team. And so I enjoyed my 10-year-in-lawful-year-in-lawful-year-in-old in Milwaukee. Obviously, my last year was in Phoenix, but for the majority of my career, I was in Milwaukee and enjoyed every minute of it. What would you consider your kind of welcome to the NBA moment? Was it someone you guarded, or maybe you're on the bench, you're watching Kobe play or something.

What was that moment for you? Well, my rookie hero was Eddie Jones. Eddie Jones. Eddie Jones. Yeah. Baker, baby. Exactly. Tenacious defender, as you know, Matt, Jerry.

Tremendous length and also really underrated offensive player. And as a rookie, I'm trying to guard. He was in Miami at the time. And it was certainly a rude awakening, guarding him and having him guard me. And it was just a tough night, obviously. And then my first year as a starter playing as Kobe was a rude awakening for me. Usually typically, as a guy that came off the bench

as a sixth man role, I didn't play against the starters my first three years. So I kind of missed a lot of times against Kobe. And then he does a turnaround jump shot. He's posting me up and he doesn't turn around jump shot. I can test, but his foot hits my underneath my arm. That's how high he joked. I said, wait a minute.

This is a different level of athlete and player. And yeah, it was an incredible moment. And it made me realize I had to step my game up and become a better player. You had such an amazing, I think, you know, not too long ago, Shane Battier was talking about Kobe, right? And you were on X, and you've been incredible on social media. Just breaking down. I enjoy, for me, from the football side, I always see, like, play breakdowns. And I think it's really cool because it opens up this lens to just normal fans.

And you've been really doing that on the basketball side. And there's not a lot of guys, like in your era that are breaking that down. You did break down the Kobe stuff. I just could you dive a little deep? I'm a diehard all-time Kobe fan and a Laker fan. And Eddie Jones got what a name blast from the past. Temple University. Temple, there you go. Yes, sir. Just just what made Kobe just, Kobe just, Kobe, because every time we have someone that played basketball, I always ask the same question, like, what made him so unique, what it made him so different? I often feel like he is almost underrated when you look at like the Mount Rushmore of players, for whatever reason this generation,

just they go to LeBron and all these other guys. Just Kobe Bryant, how would you kind of describe playing with him watching him play? Probably the toughest challenge for me ever in basketball. him and AI 1A, 1B. Kobe was really strong, underrated, strong. You had to be really physical with him.

The more you were physical with him, the more he fed off that, though. Had the ultimate green light. So, you know, really not too much you can do with him, with his skill set, along with having the green light, right? But more than anything, I think, is mentality. You got a mentality to destroy you.

which I appreciated it because I had the same mentality. And so, you know, his ability to be completely obsessed with the game, a basketball, and you felt that when you played against him. And I had the privilege of being on the Olympic team with him in 08, but we had a three-year process before that. So we spent a lot of time with each other between 05 and 08 leading up to the Olympics and got a chance to see his work ethic, got a chance to feel him and practice. him and I used to go have our own training sessions by ourselves, actually.

So I had the privilege of seeing him of close beyond how most was able to see him. And what an incredible athlete, what an incredible mindset that to me marks him more than anything. You know what gets me every time that mid-afternoon slump, like 3 p.m. hits and suddenly thinking about coffee. something sweet, just a little pick me up. I've started building in those little treat moments, though, because if you don't, you end up going off the rails. It's all about balance, right? And lately, I've been swapping that extra coffee run

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Save the everyday with Amazon. One of my favorite quotes of yours is when you talk about guarding AI and the best defense for AI is making him guard you, right? I'm going to make him work on the other end because you really can't guard. Everything we ever hear from a coach is team defense and we're going to run a lot of different looks.

sure. And a lot of players like yourself get asked, you know, who were you thinking about the night before that you had to guard? But I'm going to flip that question for you. You know, how did you use to prepare for certain defenders? And who were some of those defenders that you would be up the night before on the offensive end thinking like, all right, this guy's coming at me tomorrow. So here's how I'm going to approach it. I slept well every night, Jerry. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not even being, like honestly, I think my career is underrated because I was in Milwaukee. It for sure is. And it doesn't get the highlights.

And I wasn't a really flashy, flamboyant, like, personality. Just did my job and went home. But, I mean, there was the Eric Snow's, the smaller guards that would get underneath you. Did Derek Fisher's, the Eric Snow's, then you had the meta world pieces, the Roder Test. And then you had those guys, Bruce Bowens, who had tremendously. A hand checking. I'm hearing a lot of hand check. right now. Yeah, Trevor Arezzo was a terrific

length guy. Russell Butler, got rest of there's a lot of guys who had length. Eddie Jones, again, Ruben Patterson. There's a number of great defenders. I wasn't overly athletic. I didn't rely on my athleticism. I just had to rely on being

crafty and outwit you. I'll smart you. And being left-handed, Matt, something played a role in that. You know, it's hard to be a left-handed player. I had the ability to go left and right. So the scouting port was, well, he's left-handed, but he goes right, right? So how do you defend against that? And then the ability to shoot the basketball at any point gave me such a leeway.

So we had tremendous defenders. And it was a physical league, obviously, when I played. But I slept well every night, pretty much. Yeah, Jerry, come on, man. Listen, you always hear those stories of, like, I was up all night because I knew I had to guard this guy. but I was wondering on the flip side, like on the offensive side. But that's how you know. And by the way, like, I don't look at you as underrated because I know how good you are.

I watched it. I was there for all of it. Every now and then, you know, something happens with the younger generation. That kind of gets the word out. And I love, love, love how people have discovered you, the young people, because I'm a 2K player myself. They discovered Michael Redd 2K. And what is the quote? like Michael Red, but everything's green

because you know you had a perfect shot. That must have been fun for you to live through. People are like, Michael Red on 2K's guys, unbelievable, because that's what I would say watching you in the era. My game is completely embellished on 2K. A lot of young

people, I didn't really miss. And it's a funny story about my son was playing 2K on these 4 or 5 years old. And I tell the story sometimes. And I go into his room is dinner time. I say, son, is dinner time coming out to eat, buddy. He's played, I'm coming, Daddy, I'm playing a 2K.

And I says, well, son, we have to get going. Dinner's ready. Mom is ready for us to come eat. He said, yeah, Dad, I'm coming. I'm playing with Michael Red and Milwaukee Bus. And he didn't connect the character on the video game. True story. That's wild. And to me, it was like, I won in life.

If my son doesn't just see me as a basketball player, he sees me as dad. He just knows me as dad. Yes. And so it was a really fun moment. But most people, young people, you were amazing on 2K. hey, oh my God, you'd never miss. And, you know, it's true. That is, that is, it's always an honor for people to remember what you, you did on the court.

But I think more importantly, probably on the video games now, you know, these days. Right. But, but it was, it was an incredible tenure that I had when I played. I loved every minute of a jury. I love competing. And I always, in my social media, you know, my platform, I usually try to admonish the guys that were ahead of me, the Allen Houston's and the trails freewells, Mitch Richman's and Reggie Miller's and give those guys their flowers because they were terrific in their own right in their time.

And I think it's important as a player to remember who came before you, but also while still celebrating what's happening right now with the young players. That's what you do that I love so much too is you celebrate the generation you were in and the ones even prior. But, you know, you have said, like, I look at basketball now. These guys are like unbelievable. Like, I've heard you even talk about La Mello. And you're like, you said, I think a year ago in 2025, you're like, this guy's really unbelievable. Everyone's giving you crap for it.

I've always appreciated that about how you talk about today's game, too. I love the modern player. I really do. They're so talented. Mello had got the bad rap and really was associated with the Globetrotters way he played from a lot of fans. But, like, I saw a young man who was learning how to play the game, who's extremely, talented who wants to win actually through all of the showmanship of his game he really wants to

win john caniple baby he's a right he's a right yeah i think the the the you're bridging the gap because in especially in basketball you know with football there's not as many kind of mouthpieces guys like micha parsons has his own podcast and all that but in basketball you always see like it's almost like the era's clashing like the older guys or like ah this and that they couldn't play in this and i just think you're doing a great job of kind of bridging the gap of like giving the old guys flowers, giving the new guys flowers because they are so talented. We've talked about lefties a little bit, Michael. We do a segment every week called Throwback 3, and we wanted to ask you your all-time favorite lefties basketball players. You can go all the way back. You can go modern. You can go

shooters, whatever, your top three lefty basketball players. You can't say yourself. So we're going to go, we're going to go your top three. Who you got? Wow. Top three, you've got to look at Chris Mullen. Yes. Yes. Yes. honorable mention, I didn't see him play, Bill Russell. You've got an honorable mention, David Robertson. Yes. For me, certainly Manu Genoblee was, I had to guard him. He was incredible.

Yeah, he was good. He was terrific, terrific left-handed player. And then you look at James Hardin and what he's at his career, arguably one of the greatest scores in the history of the game. I'll throw a last one in there. I know you asked for three, but I'll throw, Lamar Odom. Yeah.

Lamar Odom was terrific. God, he was good. 6-11, 6-10, kind of ahead of his time. When we look at his game. So those are the lefties that stand out to me along the years. There's so many more. Did you ever play? I mean, I know you do.

Anthony Peeler was one of my favorite players growing up. Terrific. The Lakers, it was Eddie Jones. It was Peeler was on those teams. It was Van Smeck. Ben Axe. Vlad Eivok, yeah. Yeah, but Peeler was so smooth, man.

I think that was probably like, God, I must have been like 10 or 11 years old when he was on the Lakers. But Peeler's one of my favorites. He was terrific. Nick Van Exel, left-handed as well. Yeah. Nick the Quake was special. And so there's been so many great players that kind of get overlooked that I love to highlight along the way. But, yeah, Anthony A Pillar, unbelievable left-handed player.

I got a question for it. So I've listened to you talk about the Redeem team. you know, it's such a unique story. And we all saw the documentary and you have so many good stories from there. But as I was kind of preparing for you, you had a quote that, you know, really stuck out to me too. Because when you said, like, time to be on the redeem team, he's like, because the rest of the world caught up, right? And that just struck me as like, you know what? That really was the time period.

And now you look at the NBA now, I guess if you go back to that time period, when you say they caught up to you, obviously they got better. you think they were doing in other countries basketball-wise that made them catch up so not quickly but now we look and you can look at the top five NBA players whatever your rankings are and you know there's a lot that are not American currently yeah oh i think the exposure from 1992 dream team with jordan and berkeley and ewing and larry bird and magic all those great players exposed the game on a global scale and the world really big begin to take a liking to basketball, the more. And so by the time you get to 08, you know, you've got six NBA guys on Spain's team, you know.

And so, you know, their ability to have been together for years played a massive part. No longer could we just put a team together and think we're going to win the gold medal in that summer. I think you have to credit Jerry Colangelo with being a mastermind of putting the guys together for three to four years before the Olympics. So we can develop chemistry, cohesion, togetherness, the ability to trust each other in tough moments, dinners, breakfasts, training camps. We went through all of that before we got to the gold medal game.

And I think those moments help propel us in those moments during that championship game. So I think the world had an advantage as far as being in their development system, obviously, but also had it been together for since they're teenagers. That's a big deal when it comes to winning. What do you think of, like, club AAU basketball now? I just curious my son played it a little bit. I kind of got my feet wet.

What are your thoughts on that? So I have an AAU program. You do, okay. It's not the traditional AAU program because we focus on development more than playing. Yep. And the kids, they struggle with it because they're not used to just, like, doing L cuts. and post-entry passes and learning how to do a left-handed lap

and chest passes. And I think there is something to be said about learning the fundamentals, man, as you know, in order for you to be really gifted at the passes and all behind the back, you've got to master the simple plays and simple things. And I think we've lost that in our generation as far as fundamental basketball

being the foundation. People come to me all the time about when I play or fans and say, hey, Alan Iverson's amazing. I said, but what you don't realize is Alan Iverson is probably the most fundamental basketball player in the league.

You know? And so they see all the highlights on sports center and whatnot with these great players but not realizing they're so fundamentally sound. And I think that's an important aspect. And so we do that with our A& program. I think there's too many games played,

which breaks down the body. Yep. Much sooner. Kids experience burnout by the time they're juniors and seniors in high school. They dislike basketball by the time they get to college.

Obviously, NIL now. has reinvigorated my love and like for the game. But I think your body takes a beating and then by the time you get to the NBA, if you're lucky, you know, injuries are popping up more frequently now. So I think it does stem from an arduous schedule in the AAU circuit. Yeah, you said it even at like the top of our interview. You were like, you know, you played a lot of sports as a kid, you know.

You didn't just play basketball. And nowadays, I feel like, you know, kids pick their sport very, very young. And then it's just push all the chips in. a lot of people are there's push all and like, this is our sport, this is our lane. And, yeah, I mean, I can only imagine being a kid where it's like, I mean, some kids that think like, oh, you never tried baseball, right? I mean, football's different. I don't, maybe some kids should try.

I definitely should never have tried football. But, you say tennis, golf. I know you're a golfer too, which like, that's what I want to say. I know, like, it's so funny, right? Because I remember when there was like a wine craze in the NBA, right, with LeBron. LeBron started really kind of drinking some wine, and then next thing you know, every NBA player has a wine label and all this stuff. Golf back in like 08 during the Redoubt, like it obviously was popular,

not nearly as popular now. Were you playing golf back in the redeem? But it wasn't like everyone's going to play golf at 08, right? Because LeBron's like obsessed with golf now. Now golf is going to be the wave now in the NBA. I've been playing golf for 25 years. Ray Allen took me on the golf course in 2001. He can play.

Yeah, he's terrific. And so we just DM each other the other the other about playing with each other. But he started me on this journey. And I love golf so much. To your point, we were at the Hall of Fame in last September. We had the privilege of being inducted

in the Hall of Fame. Yes, congrats. Thank you, buddy. What a tremendous recognition and honor. The conversation, we hadn't seen each other in 17 years in one space, all of the whole team. And the majority of the conversation

was around golf. And I'm trying to weasel my way into these games with LeBron, D.Way, Chris Paul, Jason, Kidd, and they all rejected me. They're like, Mike, you're too good for us. Like, you were not here yet. But, and so it was amazing because LeBron was like, no, I'm not ready for you yet. I'm not ready for you yet.

I mean, you're on a different level. So the game is, as you guys know, you can play forever. Yeah. And it continues to help that competitive nature that you're born with. Are you over at Muirfield? I'm at the golf club. Oh, the golf club. The golf club.

It's the top 30. It's one of the best golf experiences in the world to me. So you know we need to do them, Matt. When you're in Columbus with big news. Listen, I've been asking you for multiple years. All these dudes golf. Matt's getting into it. Let's all meet up.

Get two forsooms out there and let's go. Dude. I knew you were asking for a reason, Matt. I knew you were asking for a reason. Well, Urban's a member. Brady, Brady, Brady, Bradie Quinn lives over in Dublin right by you. Yep.

Yep. I, I play golf during my cry. I just never got the bug. And then as Jerry and I started the show a couple of years ago, Jerry's a golf nut. He's a golf. And so, dude, I've been, I went to, I played St. Andrews last summer in Scotland. Like, I'm, I'm all about, I'm all about, I played in Tahoe in the little classic,

the pre with Austin Reeves, who's a, who's literally a scratch golfer. So I'm in, man. I'm in. Now that my basketball career is over, I'm in. I got down to a one. Oh, dude. I can't play with you either. Three now.

No, I grind, though, man. I work at it. I take lessons and you got to work at it constantly. But I definitely want to be a scrow. I'm right there. I'm just got to continue to make more putts. But, yeah, I'm right there. I love the game.

Well, you know, you know what's even tougher for like a 12 handicap like me? playing with a one handicap like you, but then again, the lefty stuff. I can't even look at you for swing help because it just looks so different and smoother. Like, righties just don't look like that. So I can't even, like, look to you for help because you're operating in this whole other spectrum of leftyville.

Do you golf lefty too? Because I golf righty. I do. Okay, so I golf righty, but throw lefty. There's a lot. It's kind of random, but yeah. No, Mike is a pure lefty. Pure lefty.

Pure lefty. I tell you a great golfer who's low-key, Mike Connolly. So Mike Connolly's like a four, like a four or five. And we have Civil War in the summertime when he's home. We play golf all the time and we love to be each other. DeAngel Russell as well. A lot of guys are-

I just heard another two lefties. Just another two lefties just popping up, man. Exactly right. Exactly right. Listen, I appreciate the time. I could talk to you forever. I have like 10 more NBA things. Same here.

Maybe we could get you back as we get deeper to the playoffs. because, you know, I want to know your thoughts on, like, the play-in, which I think has been great. And I guess, like, last thing, I was thinking about this the other day, you know, regardless of whatever happens at OKC, but even if they do win the title or come very close again, it kind of feels like current rules and aprons. And I'm not, I'm versed on the cap, but not smart about it. Like, I feel like it would be really sad if they happen to win the title again, and then we have to see, like, one of those core guys go because of cat rules. Like, we kind of lose that sense of a team that everyone's just coming to try to be. I don't know. I had this thought the other day, and I wanted to mention it to you, but I don't want to keep you for another 20 minutes.

No, I think it's going to be hard-pressed to find true dynasties going forward. Yeah. You know, like the USC dynasty, the mid-2000s, right? Like, having those guys, that was for you, Matt. Yeah, but having, to your point, Jerry, having teams be in contention for six or seven years, that same roster. that's not going to be the case going forward. I don't believe, unfortunately. Now, you've got to maneuver as a GM.

You have to maneuver a lot of things. But I think seeing the same faces on a roster for six to seven years that it's not going to happen as often. Well, enjoy what we got coming up. Playing is going to be fun. Go play some golf. And, yeah, we'll definitely hit you up when we're coming out to Columbus. Absolutely.

Yeah. And also keep doing the social stuff, man. We really, I appreciate it. I'm sure the younger guys do. And also just business after basketball, man. And this new era of NIL and all that, I think you just, you're becoming a great mentor online for a lot of young kids. So I think it's awesome. Thank you, Matt.

Yeah. Matt, last question for you. Yeah. Can you imagine how much we would have made in college? Let me tell you what, man. I would have made more in college than I did in the NFL. Shit. Hey, listen, you know what?

But we paved the way. for these guys. Actually, the O'Bannon brothers paved the way, but we did pay. We did pay, we did pay, we did pave the way, though, man. But God, it would have, it would have been nice. It would have been nice. It would have been nice. I did ask for a reparation a couple years ago. Yeah, I did. And we, we're too old. So this will make you probably feel older too. I have a, um, my 19 year old son is playing college football for SMU and he's getting paid now with all the revs share and NIL. So now I'm, I'm, I'm like, And he's like, dad, yeah, I'm making money. He's like, man, Pops, you would have made a ton of money back in the day.

I'm like, oh, yeah, dude. For sure. It's cool, though, man. I'm happy. I'm happy for the kids. They deserve it. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Well, we appreciate you, man. You're the best, dude. Thank you, Michael. Thank you both, man. Thank you, Jerry. Thanks, Matt. Welcome aboard via rail. Please sit and enjoy.

Please sit and sip. Play. Post. Taste. View. And enjoy. Via Rail. Love the Way.

All right. Again, big shout-outs to Michael Red. That was a lot of fun. But now we're about to have some real fun. All right. So we're going to do GM draft, lefties only. You could do it however you want. Best five or your position.

Matt, should we do a sixth man as well? Let's do a six-man. We got a shout-out to a six-man. You need a heat-check guy. There's enough names. I mean, the list is strong. I mean, there's strong. It does, I feel like it does.

It can tail off a little bit, but then it depends just on, on what your need is and what you're going for. And how deep of a cut do you want it to be? So we're going to draft, we're going to switch off to 10 or to 12 because we'll draft a six man or however you want that. We'll do 12 picks. We'll just rotate everyone. I'm going to, I'm going to flip a coin, dude.

I have a quarter. Okay. Snake draft, no snake. Heads or tails. You trust me. No snake. Just straight one through 12. This is a big flip.

Alternate. It's a big flip. It's a big flip. Call it in the air. You ready? Yep. Set, go. Tails.

Oh, shit. fell off the table. table. Hold on. One more. Here we go. Ready? Tails. It's heads. Oh. It is heads. No, it's fitting that. Another all-time great lefty. I mean, you can't tell, but I am

gonna, I am gonna. I believe you, I believe you. Pick it up. I know is you're an honest, you're an honest broker. All right, with the first pick of the lefty draft. Matt, liner, you were on the clock. I tried not to go back old school because I'm not going to build an old school team, but I'm going to go with one of the greatest players of all time, Bill Russell. The greatest? arguably Mount Rushmore, one of the greatest players

the NBA has ever seen. I think his game back there translates into this game. I'm going with Bill Russell, the number one pick. Okay. That was great. I'm going to go with a little bit of strategy here. I'll explain later. But my first overall pick is the great Manu Genovoi.

Taking him right off the board. I think the first guy really to show us the Euro step in a way that we haven't seen it before. Manu, welcome to Team Ferrara. God. You are on the clock, Liner. He was in my, yeah, Manu is one of my favorites. Listen, I'm going to go with one of the greatest scores of all time of picking a roll with Bill Russell.

I'm going to go James Hardin, number two. Doesn't play a lot of defense, but when you have Bill Russell backing you up, you don't need to play defense. That is pretty fantastic. This next pick, sticking with strategy, I'm doing this just to piss you off. Chris Mullen, let's go. know that's where you were going next. It's not. It's not.

No, okay. Well, I'm sitting with Manu and Chris Mullen, a much more modern style. I mean, you got... Defensively, I got problems. Yeah, I was going to say, you're real slow on a defensive end right now. All right, that was a good pick. I'm going to go... Oh, this is where it gets interesting.

This is where you can go a lot of different ways. Yes, now we're in the nitty-gritty. I'm going to go with Chris Bosch as my power forward. I got Russell at 5. Bosch. It might be a little bit of a stretch, Perennial All-Star, Olympian, a really great player,

kind of got lost in Toronto for all those years, but like Chris Bosch at 4, can shoot it, can extend. See, that's the one thing you need... Well, the one thing you need, when you have Bill Russell is also you need some shooting, so you just solve that

with maybe one of the best stretch four or five players. I'm good. Yeah, but Hardin's a lot of things, and he's a good shooter. I wouldn't classify him as a knockdown. like dead eye. He's not Chris Mullen.

He's a great shooter. He's one of the greatest scores. The NBA's... Score, right. He's... Yes. Okay. Great pick.

I need to take the pressure off now. I stashed this guy to the third round because I figured you got your center, so I didn't need to jump for center. But I'm going with the Admiral. David Robinson answers a lot of the defensive questions, a lot of the rebounding questions that my team... By the way, I got two spurs on the squad as well, which... I almost went David Robinson and just did Twin Towers.

You could have went double bigs and totally. Totally screwed me, bro. Oh, okay. This is where it gets interesting. I'm going to go, I could totally screw you right now and go your boy, but I can't have, I can't have undersized guards. I'm not going to do that. So I'm going to go probably playing my two. I'm going to go Michael Red.

I'm going to go Michael Red. You're getting a little too much shooting. I was afraid you were going to start to have. Underrated defender, another Olympian can drain. I mean, my team is absolutely stacked. Okay. So I have David Robinson, Milo Genoblee, Chris Mullin. I am going to add a piece now for fit that I think I just have to. And I think he fits so well in this spot. I'm going Lamar Odom at the four. Versatility. Now I have dual ball handler. I have a scorer. I have a good long defender. My team's, I'll tell you one thing. My team is weird right now. We're living up to the lefty weirdness. So you got, recap, so you got Bill Russell, James Hardin, Michael Red, And did you take your fourth yet? Chris Bosch.

And Chris Bosch. Okay, so you got two picks left. Hmm. This is a tough one. And this is, this is, this is going to be interesting. And you're not going to know where I'm going with this. But I think this guy is, no, you don't know. I guarantee you don't know.

It's one of the best in that era, one of the better European players we have seen. He was sort of hidden on a championship. team. But in this, he's versatile like Lamar Odom. I'm going with Tony Kookech. Listen, I love your points. I love your case. I'm just going to say, I feel like I'm back in the game now because now I have a guy I can target on defense. Tony Kooch and Lamar Odom are a wash, other than Tony Kookech is a way better shooter than Lamar Odom. Okay. Way better shooter. I find it hard to believe. Lamar's a better ball handler, but I mean, they're, I mean, I'm Look, I'm scoring, bro.

I just find it hard to believe that if you had your choice over Tony Kooch and Lamar Odom, I was about to pick Lamar Odom over Michael Red, but I'm like, you know what, I'm good. I don't need any more long. Like, Bosch is versatile. I'm good. So, okay, I got Manu, I got Robinson. Feel free to cut all this out, by the way. I got Manu, Robinson.

Bro, just take Jalen Brunson. That's who you want. Well, I need a point card. So I'm going to take Jalen Brunson now, even though I know you wouldn't do that to me and take them. So that rounds out my starting five of Brunson, Genobley, Mullen, Odom, Robinson, and you have your starting five of Russell, Harden, Bosch, Coo Coach, Michael Red. Oh, dude, I'm putting 200 on you. Here's my sixth man.

You ain't stopping anybody either, Bob. What are you talking about? You got Bill Russell. That's it. That's your only defense. Michael Red could, Michael Red could play D. All right, all right. He said his best defense was his offense.

Don't forget. defense on your team. Jalen Brunson ain't playing defense. No, he's not. Chris Mullen for sure ain't playing defense. Mon and Genoblee probably he's a crafty. He's crafty. Lamar Odom would not a great defender. Admiral and Bill Russell.

I mean, I'm, I'll take Russell, Bosch, and Red. Hardin can't play and Cootch, probably whatever. So I'm curious to see with your sixth mayor. Are you going offense or defense? No, I'm going, I'm going a guy who can play one through four. He's an NBA champion. A

highly, highly underrated player. Won an NBA championship. He can score, too, but he can defend all of those guys. I'm going with Tashon Prince. It's a great pick. That was my pick. It is a fucking great pick at my six minutes.

That is, I mean, I almost took him in a way. I almost staggered this, so I was going to pass on Odom and leave him for you. And then Tateum's a good pick. Prince with the fifth pick, because that is, he kind of rounds it. out the whole roster. You have an interesting one because I was torn.

I have a guy that I left off who I love. I just love them. A guy I'm leaving off, no disrespect to them. Like, Willis Reed is kind of an obvious pick. There was a ton of guys in the back. I just don't know enough. Like, I know how good they were. I know how iconic they were, but I don't know enough.

Bill Russell is the only old school guy for me that I could like justify. Okay. Here are the names I'm passing on. And then I'll announce, I'm passing on Derek Coleman, although I loved Derek Coleman back in He was a beast. Incredible. I even toyed around with like a Julius Randall or even like a Catino Mobley. Let me get like a 20 point score or a game, but I'm not.

I need a little more toughness and I need a little more defense. And when you name those two things, I can't think of anyone else other than the late great Anthony Mason. Let's go. Now we got some fear on the board. Oh, I thought you were going a different player. Who would you pass us? So who'd you pass? We left a lot off the board.

There's too many to choose from, but who's someone that you almost took? Zach Randolph, bro. Zibo. Zibo has a six off the bench. Was a old, like, talk about toughness and a 20 and 10 score. But the defense is not quite there. Yeah, but you don't need defense. Mason, you get ball handling and you get a little toughness.

I mean, I got to be honest, guys. And I know, I know, I mean, we can have our guys, Eddie, if you want to chime in. I'm fucking running races. Wait, wait, wait, get Eddie, jump on, Cole. I'm running. I'm running. Laps around your team.

This was harder than I thought, though, but I don't think you're smashing me. I have everything, bro. What do you think, Eddie? What's the instant reaction? I'm looking at Matt's team like, oh my, I can't believe you picked Manuel over James Harden.

I can't believe you pick, Manu is your number one pick and strategy. Number one overall pick, Manuel Genovo. Look at the chat. Number two. Linear. Yeah. Why are you guys talking like Manu Genoobli?

Manu is fantastic, but is a number one pick? James Hardin, about to be 30,000 points. One of the greatest office of the players. You could have got, by the way, wait, wait. Who's more of a winning player? James Hardin or Manu Genoobli. This isn't even a take, guys. Jerry, Jerry.

Jerry. He led the team in scoring several seasons. You could have got Manu in the third round. I wasn't taking him until my third pick. You could have got him in the third round. You could have got James Harden at any point. I was never taking him. I knew the Knicks-Briest.

I knew the Knicks-Bius was strong when you picked Mace over Julius Randall. That was the little- But again, I went to need. I needed defense. I would take a deer and Fox over-upon-Mason. I need a little defense in ball handling. Like, I didn't, Randall's a score. I don't quite need what Randall does. I need what Mason does.

I was waiting for like a loophole pick, like somebody to say, well, LeBron's actually left-handed. Russell Westbrook's actually left-handed I was waiting for one of those. There's a couple of those in there actually that they said. I like the Tayshan Prince pick. The Tayshan Prince pick. That was a good one.

That's the swing. He was, I was almost going him in my starting five because he's one through four. Like he was one of the, I should have maybe taken him over Odom. I was hoping to get, to be honest,

I was hoping to get Odom and Prince. Dude, I had, I laid out my one, I had Tony, Tony Coot coach was, I probably could have taken Prince over him. That's to me where I think I have a big, case to come back here. But I don't, but I don't

look at Lamar Odom as like this upgrade over Tony Cootch. And I love Lamar Odom. If we're talking about healthy Lamar Odom, who's not like, I get all the issue, right, but if we're taking that out of play, like the on the court to me, Coot coach is a great player, but Odom is like one of the most talented

players ever. Bill Russell, Bosch. Talk about third. We're talking about you're saying Manu's the third guy on the championship team. I love Chris Bosch. I wish he went to the Knicks instead of the He had to take that less of role. Yeah, but Bosch and the Raptors was a perennial all-star.

Yeah. He was a great player. I like what he did in position-wise with this lineup, too. Well, that was my other strategy. Pure point guard, peer two guard, pure three, pure power four, one of the greatest- years of all-time. That's nice. That's nice.

Hey, we'll let the audience decide. I think Matt's team falls apart with Tony Koo-coach. Falls off a cliff with Tony Koo-coach. And honestly, I'll tell you this right now. that's actually your, that's your six. By the way, Jalen Brunson, Jaylen Brunce is not going to know, not going to know what to do because he doesn't know how to pass.

So he's going to be like, Chris Mullen, Genoblee, Odom, he's like, oh, wait, I have to pass. Talk about, talk about a team that's going to be a disarray. When you have Ku coach, when you have Koo coach and Zibo on the team at the same time. I don't have Zibo. I don't have Zibo. I have Prince, buddy. But I'm just so, but someone has, one guy has to sit at some point. I like how Matt knew you were on Brunson. was not on my team.

I didn't pick Zeebo. You didn't pick Zach Randolph? Dude, are you, what are you, who is your sixth man? Hey, shot Prince.

By the way, if you want me to put Prince in, oh, that was someone you passed on. I'll put Tony Kukoch on the bench. I'll put Prince at three. Well, that was always my plan was like,

you don't have to take your sixth man sixth. You could just bench your guy, right? Like, there's a world where, you know, Brunson maybe sits a little bit. And Genobley runs,

that's thing, Genoble could run the point. He could run the office as well. I love Genoble. I just wouldn't have taken him number two overall. So you would have taken James Hardin over Genobley? If you would have went one, would you have taken Bill Russell? Yes, for sure.

There's no other. Bill Russell is the number one pick. I probably would have taken David Robinson because I was building a center first, and then I was going to probably take Hardin or Genoblee with my second page. I love Hardin. I think Hardin's awesome, but... On this team, I don't need him to play D. Pick and roll.

Because he's not going to. He's not going to. That's good that you don't want him to play Dek because he won't. It's tough saying that when Zaylon Brunson's in your start line up. You have Chris Mullen, Jalen Brunson. You have no defense in your guards. At least I have Michael Red who can play D. Michael Red said on this very episode,

my best defense was my offense. He said it in the episode, Matt. Yeah, dude, come on. And he's on that team. He needs to go for 28 to make the other defender tired. By the way, my team is scoring 200 points, dude. It doesn't even matter. If we put these teams together on 2K and we watch it happen,

180 to 120. You know what? Motherfuckers, I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that tonight. I'm going to put it on 2K tonight and I'm going to run a sim on it and let the score. We need that. Good work, guys. That was fun, man.

That was fun. We got to do more of those. I love drafts, man. Drafts are the best, dude. Drafts are the best. You took one of the most polarizing playoff players. Say that three times fast. Polarizing playoff players. Of all time. A guy who historically we have said, I don't know, is this guy going to show up in the playoffs?

James Harder. Is he going to be there? Is he going to score? They benched him in the playoffs and the team came back and won. What is Brunson done for the Knicks? And I love, by the way, I love Jalen Brunson. But if you're going to start saying that. He might even be my sixth man. Who knows? Maybe I plug Mason there. Okay, so then James Hardin will be my six man.

If you're worrying about my Mullen defense, I'll put red at one and I'll put Tashon Prince in there to guard one through four. I'll put Odom at the two. What if I go, Genobley, Odom, Mullen, Mason, Robinson. Where are you, you, you're in a box. You're in a defensive box. You don't think Tashon Prince can lock up Lamar Odom. What I'm saying is defensively, you got nowhere to go anywhere. You're in a box.

I got Robinson, Mason, Odom, Genoble. You're in a box. The sad thing about this is you thought way too hard about this and your team sucks. I thought about this for about... You can't say my team sucks, bro. Well, no, it doesn't suck, but it's going to, it'll lose to my team. We'll find out. We'll find out.

We'll find out. All right. Shoutouts again to Michael Red. Go follow him on all platforms. We got to come up with the next draft for, uh, because this is too much fun. Listen, we'll take, we'll take, we'll take a request. What draft should we do next? That was fun.

We could do anything, any sport. All right. I got a fun one. What if we did the all, six, two. an underdraft. That could be fun. That could be fun. Shoutouts to my short people all out there.

Taking Mugsy Boggs or Spock? I'm taking Mugsy Bokes first. That was always the player. My mom said, Jerry, if Mugsy could do it, you could do it. That was my mom's like a little pitch to me. By the way, you're, you're Jose Al-Tubei, but you're also J.J. Borea, dude. That is you.

J.J. Bray. A, champion J.J. Brayette, who was guarding LeBron in the final. He had great minutes of the playoffs. bro. He was a part of that rotation. Great minutes. All right. We'll be back next week.

Thanks for listening.