Tiger Sisters - Are Our Standards Too High? EP 5

Episode Date: August 19, 2024

🎙️ In This Episode: Dating Confessions & Lessons from the Tiger Sisters! 🐯 In this episode, we dive deep into their personal dating stories—revealing what it’s really like to navigate relationships while balancing big tech, startups, and everything in between. We discuss what we look for in a partner, the pros and cons of dating ambitious people, and even share our top picks from this season’s Bachelorette. Whether you’re curious about dating coworkers, searching for the perfect match, or just here for the juicy stories, this episode is packed with insights and laughs. Submit any dating advice questions you have for us and we can answer them in next episode’s Mailbag! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Tiger Sisters Podcast | Career, Tech, and Life Welcome to Tiger Sisters, your go-to podcast for career mentorship and life guidance! Hosted by Cherie Brooke Luo and Jean Luo, we’re your internet big sisters here to demystify the ups and downs of navigating careers, tech, and entrepreneurship—while keeping it real about staying healthy, stylish, and joyful along the way. Cherie is an influencer who has broken down the complexities of big tech, finance, and MBA programs for millions of viewers, with over 100M+ views across platforms. Jean is a tech product executive and investor, holding over 50 AI patents, who has built an impressive career in product management and institutional investment at companies like Goldman Sachs and Snapchat. Between the two of us, we’ve survived stints at top investment banks and big tech firms, founded startups, and earned four Ivy League degrees—if we’re counting Stanford! Yet, we still find time to focus on wellness, friendships, fashion, and skincare, while sharing the lessons we've learned along the way. Join us for candid conversations where we spill the tea on careers, technology, entrepreneurship, school, and life. Whether you’re here for career advice, stories about balancing life’s challenges, or just to hear our honest takes on what it means to pursue fun, wealth, and joy in all areas of life, we’ve got you covered.

This is a special episode. Yes, it is. Hi, everyone. Hi, everyone. Welcome to a very special episode of the Tiger Sisters. It's me. And me. The Tiger Sisters.

This podcast episode is for everyone but our mother. If you are mom watching this right now, turn this episode off. This episode is not for your ears. It's not for you. Yeah. Close this video. Never open it up again. In this episode, we're going to be talking about all things.

personal. We don't usually do this. We usually keep it very profesh. But in this episode, we're going to be talking about dating, dating advice, and answering some of the questions that you guys have asked us on our personal lives. So the reason we decided to do this episode is because we got a lot of questions about our dating lives and our personal lives and what our status is. So we're going to answer them. And since we talked about professional staff for the previous podcast, it's nice to have a bit of a balance so you can understand us more as people, which is what this whole podcast is about. And so we're going to be opening up that side to you. Yes. And I think we should do a whole separate episode about this. But the point of Tiger Sisters

is not just that we want you to have a successful career and like a successful professional life, but really what we want to do with this podcast is to have a really holistic approach to living a, you know, joyful, wealthy, and fun life. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to create this podcast with you, too, is because like so much of our early careers were so focused on like the academic achievements and the professional achievements that like, I feel like sometimes there have been sacrifices in the personal life or the personal department. And so it's really important that like we focus on that now and we just talk about some

of the things that we've gone through. So that, you know, like, how do you balance, like, work and dating? Like, that's a very real thing that, like, girlfriends talk about. Yeah. Cool. We have mailbag where we take, like, questions and DMs from you guys, and we answer it. So the first thing is that I have someone named Philip Sebastian, who said, is your sister single? I might have a friend that might be a good match. I might have a friend that might be a good match. That's probably one too many mites for me. Yeah, seriously. Yes, he's very successful in VC, sold his company, YC, etc. But he's a really nice guy and smart. And I said, who is it? And then they said, this person and gave me their personal website. And apparently he is a tech

entrepreneur, investor, and collector. Collector of what? Collector of women in binders. Does anyone I would still get that joke. Wait, what is that? I just remember when Mitt Romney was running for president, and he was like, and people were like, you haven't, you're not nominating any women for your, like, board. And he was like, I have lots of women. I have tons of women in binders. Meaning he was, like, reviewing resumes of, like, women in binders, but then.

That was, oh, eight. I was. Okay. Please tell me some people are watching this who understand that reference. I thought you were making a weird like serial killer reference. Yes, but that was like the second layer joke. Oh. But you needed to get the original reference to then get the second layer of the joke.

Okay. Well, hopefully he's not collecting actual women in binders. Hopefully he's collecting art, but we don't know. So anyways, Gene, I would love to ask you, are you single? What is your status? Okay. So yes, I am single. And I guess in general, I actually feel pretty,

nervous talking about this topic just because I'm very new to this whole creator lifestyle and creator career. And so I'm not as used to putting myself out there as much as Shri is. Like you've been doing it for four plus years. Yeah, like almost five years now. And you're just so fluid and good at it. Whereas for me, I think like naturally I'm a much more private person. But I do think back to what we said earlier, like dating. and relationships and friendships are just such a critical and important part of living, like a holistically happy life that we should talk about it. So yes, that's all to say that I am single. I am recently single. And how does this person sound to you if this guy who might be a friend

who might be a good friend, very successful in venture capital, sold his company, Y Combinator? Yeah, I mean, that sounds like a good resume. I mean, that's not like an automatic yes. Yeah. We'd want to know more about him, but. It's interesting that this person is recommended from another person, basically someone who DMs me. Yeah. But you don't know this person who DM'd you.

No, I don't. Okay. So it's kind of, I think that's kind of funny. It's a little bit risky. Yeah. It's funny, but it's also risky. Like, what are your thoughts now about dating? apps versus like getting a friend to recommend someone. Yeah. Well, I did use dating apps a lot. Like, I was on them a bunch when I was single, but that was back in like, you know, I used them up until

2015, I guess. Oh, wow. That's a long time ago. That's like almost 10 years ago. You kind of remind me of my boss, like one of my old bosses who was dating someone for 10 years before he got married. And he would always like ask me like what's it like on the dating app? He's like what does it what do you do you guys even do? What question? Yeah. What hit up like hit up lines do you get? Yeah. So I would kind of like decode it for him. This is when I was like 23. Yeah. I'm like look at all my matches and they're like, would you respond to that? Like show me their profiles. Like it was just a fun conversation, but he was like so out of the dating game. Yeah. That he was like seeing it for the first time. Yeah. I mean what is funny and kind of like mortifying is that I was like looking at my friend's hinge profile

the other day. And I was like trying to like scroll through things. And I like couldn't even, I like didn't even know how to like operate it anymore. I was like trying to scroll through the like carousel and it didn't work. And I was like, what's wrong with this? And then she was like, here, look, you do this. And I was like, and then I like totally like blamed it on the app. I was like, the tap zone is too small here. Like they need to like work on that. Like you need a shake and like send in a report. Technology has involved since 2015. Yeah. Yeah. So I think. In general, I'm not opposed to dating apps, but I also am not on them now. And I kind of am just, maybe this is naive, but I'm kind of just hoping that I just meet people organically and through friends.

And it just magically happens. Yeah. I don't know if that's, I mean, I don't know if that's naive. I think that's optimistic, but also, like, it's much better from. what I've heard and seen to like get a friend referral to like if you are looking to date or get serious it's like way more serious when your friend recommends someone because especially if it's someone that you trust it's already bedded yeah and then like they might know you they know the other person really well like yeah it's kind of like a matchmaker yeah i haven't really dated anyone seriously

who i was like set up with but i've actually never been set up with i've actually never been set up with I would love to be set up. Oh, yeah? Do your work. Do your work, people. Okay, and since no one asks, I'm also single. Sorry. I'm also learning how to ask her more questions on these.

Yes. Usually I'll say, how about you? I'm like, that's not a real question. You could say, like, I'm so curious. How would you answer this question? But you cannot say, how about you? Okay. Work on it.

But back to me. Okay. I guess for me, my experience with using dating apps 10 years ago. What was that? When I was, you know, just five years old. I've never really had a serious relationship with anyone who I met through a dating app that I wouldn't have already potentially met through a friend of a friend. Or through a friend, if that makes sense. Like you met someone on a dating app, but you had met someone on a dating app, but you had met.

met them in real life already? I could have met them in real life. Like, we had enough mutual. And I don't even know if that was like a serious relationship. That was like on and off for like five or six months or something. Pretty much everyone who I've dated seriously has been through like school or work or work. Oh my God. We had to talk about that.

Being coworkers. But also I- She's very against it. I'm super against it. Having dated a coworker, I'm very against it. Well, I was also going to say like, that's pretty good though. Like you've met people very organically in your life. Yeah. And you haven't really had to like use the dating apps, which I think a lot of people have found success on dating

apps. So it's like definitely a good avenue for some people. Yeah. I've also never, I've never like dated a random person. Like you know how on TV or in books and stuff, it always seems like people will like go up to someone at a bar or you'll or you'll like meet someone when you're out and then you'll like give them your phone number and then you like go on a date. Does that happen for people? Does that happen to you guys? Like maybe I just have too much like ingrained stranger dangers. But I like don't feel comfortable with that. I feel like I mean there's definitely some level of stranger danger there. But like I feel like that happens less and less now that like we have so many touch points with people. Yeah. On like Instagram and people are just like so focused on their phones when they go out. Like I think it happens much less now than like. Yeah. In like the 2000s or whatever.

Yeah. Okay. So for you, you're also newly single. Yes, I am newly single. In a new city. In a new city. How are you feeling about that? I feel optimistic, but also like very weird. I'm like smiling because like it's exciting. Like I think I'm still processing my previous relationship.

Okay. I dated someone at school. It was like a very fulfilling, a very connected relationship. And I would say, like, I've learned a lot from my, from that relationship about myself and, like, what I want going forward, which I think was really important for me. But I don't know. I think dating is weird. I went on one date and it was someone who I had met in person at one of your friends' house parties. And at first I was like, is this a date? It's not a date. It was. Of course it was a date. Yeah. It was a date. Yeah. Duh. Well, they didn't say, like, do you want to go on a date? I don't know. Anyways, it was just. like really subtle. Anyways, it was a date and I was surprised. Like, I really enjoyed myself. I think coming out in my last relationship, I was like, I don't know. I feel like I still need to process stuff. And I think I do. But like, I was like, I should probably just get out there and like see what

it's like to like meet someone. Yeah. And I really had fun. Yeah. I told this to my girlfriends. And they're just like, wait a second, hold up. Did you have fun because this person was engaging and interesting or did you have fun because you, Shiree, are engaging and interesting? I mean, hopefully both, I guess. Yeah, but that's something that my girlfriend's called out. Because I've enjoyed myself and they're like, yeah, but like, you're so interesting that, of course you enjoyed yourself. Yeah, I have definitely been on dates where after like a few dates with someone, you're like,

wait, am I like the entertainer here? Like, am I like the entertainment? like what? So this guy was, this was a long time ago, obviously, but this guy was an investment banker and, what? He was like. Allegiate ick. I'm just kidding.

I'm kidding. Oh, it's so funny. He was like extremely successful. And he was, I don't think I've ever told you this. He was, he was literally, he was a collector of cars. Oh? And he picked me up in. Oh, you did tell me this.

Was this in San Francisco? Yes. He picked me up in, oh my God, I don't remember the car now. Oh, okay, he picked me up in one of his cars, which was a scooteria. I have no idea what... I don't remember which, like, car brand that is, but it was like a... The car people know. And then he, like, took me to this, like, really fancy, like, Michelin Star Restaurant, blah, blah, blah.

But he was just so boring. Like, all he really cared about was he loved his job, which, like, so happy for him. But he, like, didn't really have that many interests. Did you only go on one? date? No, we went on a few dates. And also he was, again, a friend of a friend. So that's how I even got to know him is that like we had hung out a few times in like a friend context, like a group friend context. Like he like made it clear that he was interested in me. So then we went on a couple dates or we went on a few dates. No, he was like a really nice guy. But I was just like,

the conversation was not giving. Well, I think in that case, like what does that show? Like, are you looking for someone who's like, interesting? I'm not even interesting, but is it like funny? Is it like? Yeah, I know that's your like number one requirement, right? It is now. Okay. After I dated the last person from school, I realized how much I felt like when we were dating, it felt like I was back in high school again. We were just like laughing and giggling all the time. And it was just like so much levity in my life. And I'm like a very like cheerful person and I love to laugh and I felt like she L-O-L loves to laugh but like I forgot what it felt like to laugh like that with someone and to like joke around and just be so playful yeah like bringing

like child like play back into the relationship like when I am I don't know like 50 or 60 like I still want that to be a core tenant of my relationship in the future and the person I had dated before was like very different from that like yeah more serious. serious. Yeah. I feel like a few of the people that you've dated can be put into the bucket of like, oh my God. What? You're like analyzing this. Of like really attractive, but kind of stoic. Really? Oh, I can see that. Yeah. Like just not very humorous or playful. Yeah. Like nice people. Yeah. But they like take themselves very seriously. Yes. Which I found out. like I don't I'm not very I mean I guess I am drawn to that but like moving forward like that's not

something I want or I'm looking for in a partner really yeah I think it's so much more fun when people don't take themselves seriously yeah yeah it's fun to it's fun to have fun I mean like your partner is going to be the number one person that you speak to and like make life decisions with and like build a life and probably potentially a family with so yeah you want that person to be as fun as you are. Also, this podcast episode is for everyone but our mother.

If you are mom watching this right now, turn this episode off. This episode is not for your ears. It's not for you. Or if you're friends with mom. Or if you're friends with our mom, that's like X. Click the X browser.

Close this video. Never open it up again. This content's not for you. This is private. This is private. This is for me and my internet friends. This is for us and our audience and our community that does not include you. Yeah. That's awesome. Love you. Love you. Bye. Um, one of the questions that we got on my Instagram was like, how do you balance life and work, dating and work? And what happens when you're trying to like excel in your career? That's a great question. I think what the

question actually does though, the way that it's worded is that it kind of, kind of actually falsely implies that dating on relationships and work life are actually like perfectly separated in different buckets. I think the reality of it is that especially for people who are so invested in their work lives and their professional lives that oftentimes they end up being one in the same because if you're spending like 40 to 100 hours at work every week, like you don't really have as many more opportunities to build meaningful relationships or to like, meet other people. And then also just proximity and like repeated exposure builds interest, I think is another reality.

People that you work with. Yes. Guilty. Yeah. Guilty. It might work out for some people to date their coworkers. Like if it's the love of your life, like I think there have been really successful stories. But for me, it has not worked out and people usually say don't shit where you eat, which is basically like don't date where you work. Yeah. If they're on your immediate team, like that's pretty weird. Like it can get pretty weird. If you guys are at the same company, it's a big company. Like sure, like things can be normal if things go south. But like you have to like end up seeing that. If you have to end up seeing that person in a meeting or at your work every single day, like just imagine how like stressful that is.

If you are in a situation where you really want to date someone at work, maybe a reasonable compromise is that you can just hold off and see if one of you ends up leaving the company. And then you can date after the fact and after you have less like interactions that are work related. Anyway, so my advice is try not to date anyone at work. And if you can hold off, I think that would be a really good idea. Yeah. Maybe like the way that you can look at it is that the people that you meet and interact with at work are like a pool of people you could potentially date in the future. Yeah. So that you can get to know everyone as like a coworker and as a friend.

And then in the future maybe something develops from it. Thinking back for myself, that's been some of my more positive relationships. People that I had originally met through work. But then we hadn't dated until after the fact. sometimes even like years, like a year later or something like that. Really? That's kind of romantic. Yeah.

I think maybe that's also my personality is that I'm kind of more of like a slow burn person or like I like to feel like really comfortable with a person. So that's why like for me I was saying like pretty much all the people I dated seriously. I like knew them and had hung out with them multiple times in totally platonic situations. Oftentimes like years or even like a month before we like actually. tried out a romantic relationship. Interesting. I think I'm the opposite. Oh, really?

Aside from someone who's funny, what are you looking for? I think it's really important for me to find someone who challenges me. Oh, true. Both, like, physically and, like, intellectually. Yeah. One of my, like, favorite things about my past relationships was that, um, beep was a really good snowboarder. Right.

That's what I thought. He was a really good snowboarder and I ski. And one of my most fondest memories is when we went skiing slash snowboarding together. And he would take me down mountains that were literally like turn around. You may die. We're not responsible for your death. And I was definitely not at his level. And we got into like fights on the mountain because it would take me like way longer to get down. But he was like there to like coach me through it all and stuff. And I think it made us stronger at the end. And that was like very much like a physical challenge. And that I really enjoyed. I want to put that in a different way for you. I think you enjoy people who you learn from. Yes. A hundred percent. Yes. I agree. That is also something that I really value. I don't think I could ever date someone who I didn't think was smart. For me, like, that is... Well, that's like the intellectual, like challenge. Like, yes. Like you want them to like push you intellectually and like, yeah, have a conversation. That's true. But like, you can learn stuff from people who are not intellectual, right? Yeah, I like to be challenged.

I like to learn from other people. And then also I feel like I like to be pushed as well. One of the good things from my last relationship was that I felt like we constantly had conversations that pushed me out of my comfort zone. And it was like a very like safe place. It's like have those conversations, those debates. For example, we talk about, I don't know, something that's like happening in the world or like happening in like the economic markets.

And I was like, oh, I don't really understand that. but like it pushed me to like want to understand. And I didn't feel dumb being like, oh, I don't understand this thing. Because like I know I'm not a dumb person. Yeah. And I think like having that level of trust, that respect that like they're like, I understand you. And I also want to like help you understand this.

And like I would do that for him in like other aspects where I felt more like well versed. So she wants a nerd. I love nerds. You've got to be a nerd. You have to be a funny nerd. And something like in the combination of that is. is also an amazing skier or snowboarder and golfer and golfer I love if you can teach me golf like that's bonus 10 points I would say like in the intersection of like nerd and funny is you have

to be witty like I love puns and I think if someone is like witty and like is she wants that repartee that banta she wants the banta um like the witty sense of humor is so like attractive it's very funny. Kind of like a stand-up comedian without the depression. Do we get through all the attributes? Anything else? Oh, I have another one. Okay. Tell me. I really, I'm really into people who prioritize fitness. Right. Like physical fitness because normally I am, I think a bit of a couch potato or like, I lean towards. You are not a couch potato at all. I lean towards couch potato. Like there's days where I can go like, two, three, four days without working out. That doesn't make you a couch potato, guys.

I don't think she knows what a couch potato is. Well, I think I like someone who's more active than I am. Okay, to encourage you. Yes, to challenge you. To challenge me. And then we can, like, do activities together, like play pickleball or tennis. We can go to yoga together. My ex and I did, like, all those things together.

What if they're, like, pressuring you to be active every single day, though? I would like that. What if they pressure you to do two a days? I don't know how I would feel about that. Like, it would make me like a healthier, better person. Yeah. I might be exhausted and, like, have to weigh, like, you know, the pros and cons in terms of, like, how am I feeling? And is my work impacted by how tired I am?

What if they were, like, you must be a long-distance runner? That's a weird criteria, but I think that only makes me healthier. Okay. Like, if we, like, did a half marathon or signed up for a half marathon, together and like how to put together a training plan like that is only pushing me and challenging me in a good way okay but what if it is the marathon i don't think i would ever do a marathon i think yeah i don't know it's a bucket list item maybe hmm okay why you're trying to do a gotcha why because i'm trying to test the bounds i think this interest of this what you want i think if it's three

of days, I'm out. If it's sign up for a marathon, maybe. Yeah. Like, I would, it's a bucket list item. So to add to your list, she wants a hot, fit, funny nerd. Hot, fit, funny, witty nerd. Yes. Who's into extreme cold sports.

Extreme cold sports. Like curling, for example. Not curling. So you're looking for a hot, funny, witty, skeleton? No, let's not. Let's not mislead anyone. Okay, just kidding, just kidding. Okay, what about do you want to be in a power couple?

Ooh, this is a tough question. I am pro-power couple. How would you define power couple? Ooh, that's also a good question. A power couple, assuming that you are in a more traditional relationship involving two people. A couple is two people who have like high status. within their professional lives, I would say. And the high status could be that they are influential,

that they have power, obviously in a power couple. They are people of influence. And it could be like whatever job that they have. They could be like in a nonprofit, but they're a very influential person. They could be working in finance or whatever influential person. But I would say that constitutes a power couple. Okay.

I like the idea of a power couple. I think that's so fun, especially if you have someone who is encouraging you, and supporting you to get to the next level and you guys can be like strategizing together on like world domination. Like that's exciting to me. Have you ever felt like you were in a power couple? My most recent ex mentioned that he thought we were a power couple.

Oh, wow. Or I guess someone mentioned to him someone from like work or something that was much more senior to him. And he told this person about me and that person deemed us a power couple. and then my ex says she's more the power and the power couple. But I like, I would say in the last few, they kind of felt power coupley. Well, I think the person has to be ambitious. I do think that the concept of the power couple, though, typically in a heterosexual relationship, favors the man.

Favors the man in terms of he holds the more, most of the power or? No, just in terms of, let's say you have two people who. who start a relationship together and they're the same age. And we like hold their career potential and their performance, everything constant. If you are growing a life together, like everything outside of your careers, usually the woman is the one that has to like take a step back in order to. Yeah. Invest in the family.

Would you rather, are you saying like the other alternative is like a state home dad? The ideal is to be in a power couple. But I don't, I'm trying to think of like really successful examples. I guess people are like, oh, Michelle and Barack Obama. Serena and Alexis O'Hanagan. The interesting thing is that they didn't become a couple until both of them essentially reached the peak of their career. Like, I'm not saying they're like going down, but they like reached extremely significant career highs. Yeah.

And like then they started being a couple. Okay. Let's talk about The Bachelorette. That is a show that Sheree and I watched together. I've been watching The Bachelor for a long, long time. Much longer than you. How long? How many years? How many decades have even watched?

It's so long. We love this new season with the first Asian bachelorette. Yeah. With Jen Tran, so excited to see her on there. She's. Yeah, I'm so proud of her. Me too. I'm really proud of her.

I love this season and I love seeing her shine. Yeah. Well, so we actually, she re-hosted a Bachelorette watch party earlier this week with her friends. One of the things that we were talking about is that the topics they talked about on the episode were just like topics we've never seen explored on The Bachelor. It's like this season is very intense. Like they talk about like family way more like especially like family like issues like troubles growing up like self confidence. Yeah. Like one of the

contestants like was in the military and like something horrible happened like it's like a heavy season. But I think the reason why we're actually exploring these topics for the first time is because of Jen and because her background is very different than 99% of the bachelorettes that came before her. Historically, the franchise is a very white and Christian-based franchise and also very traditional values of family. Family, yeah. But like she talks about how she kind of grew up in a broken home where her father abandoned her and she has been very open about like working through some of those issues. I love it because it makes her feel so much more relatable. Yeah. Because like even if you haven't gone through those things yourself, I can see the emotion and the vulnerability that comes

with that. Whereas like I feel like the past bachelorets, maybe they've gone through like horrible breakups and like infidelity and like other like really traumatic stuff. But like I don't know. I'm just like talking about the family and like a broken family in that way and issues of self-confidence. Like everything just feels like way much, like way more deep in this season. Yeah. And now the new Bachelor is your favorite. No, it's not Marcus. Oh, yeah.

The new Bachelor is Grant. Yeah. Who I guess was my favorite. Yeah. My favorite as of right now is Marcus. And with all just the context of this. the TV show that we're watching. Yeah, that's true.

Okay, that's fair. He is the frontrunner for me. I think just he was in the military. He's like a very sturdy, like, it seems like respectable, responsible man. Yeah. Although some Reddit threads that I've read have raised issues about him. But that's outside of the show. Outside of the scope.

Yeah. Outside of the scope. That's out of the scope. Outside of the scope. Objection, Your Honor. Objection, Your Honor. libel. Yeah. Objection, Your Honor, hearsay.

Yeah. Wait, but, okay, but based on what you said you're interested in, you're, the person that you should like the most would be Devin. Or, or, um. Devin reminds me of my ex. The most recent one? Yeah. Okay, but he fits the, like, the things that you said you're interested in. You said you're interested in a funny, witty nerd.

Devin's not nerdy enough. I think the human that he has. know if anyone's nerdy. They don't really... Well, we know that Jonathan and Marcus are nerdy because they were doing a crossword puzzle. Okay, that was like a half second. Well, I don't know. I feel like the... Crossword puzzle doesn't mean you nerdy, does it? It makes you nerdyer. It raises your nerdy level.

Nerd quotient. Yes. Plus five. Well, Devin is just like the jokes that he makes are kind of dumb to me. Like, I don't... I think like dumb humor. Like, you could have dumb humor, but you have to be smart to make dumb humor funny. So you don't think he's funny? Not really. Oh, I think he's funny.

Well, you're right that Marcus is very serious. Yeah. Marcus is the stoic, the stoic hot guy again, once again. He has no sense of humor. I mean, that we've seen in the episode. Yes, that we've seen, that we've seen. Yeah. Oh, no, you're right.

That is my... You see, I've an old type, and I'm trying to evolve into a new type. Yeah, so she wants the old type again. No. Wow. Wow, we just revealed. That was very revealing. Well, I...

That was very revealing. Dang it. You know what? Haughter. You know what? All the exes that have been stoic and handsome are very like Marcus-like. They're very like, like sturdy. Yeah.

I like that because they're responsible too, for the most part. They're like very responsible, have their head on straight type of person. Like, I want to be, I want them to be very dependable, which is what I like about Marcus. And so, like, can I have someone who's, can I not? Dependable. Can she has? Can I have? Can she has hamburger? May I has cheeseburger? May I has, please? May I has cheeseburger? She just wants someone who is the Venn diagram of dependable and playful. Yes. Can someone not be both? I am both. Yeah. You are. Yeah. So you want someone who's the same as you. She wants a twin. She wants a male twin. That's weird.

Narcissism. Just kidding. Oh, wait. Who's the one who has two earrings? Jonathan. Jonathan. Yeah. I really like Jonathan.

He's my number two. After Marcus. But they're so different. Are they? That's the two archetypes that you're talking about. Stoic and like muscular. Sturdy. I mean, they all have muscles because they're on, well, not all of them, Devin.

Well, anyway. I'll cut that out. No, they all. fit. Yeah. Okay. We'll forget it. I don't want to talk about people's bodies.

Stoic and not really much of a sense of humor, but very like sturdy and dependable versus fun, playful. Yeah. I'm worried about Jen because, okay, my main takeaway of the most recent episode where Marcus, who his background is that he is like a vet, army ranger. so like a military vet, he had like a major traumatic experience. And he also, when he was, when he grew up, he was went through the foster care system. So to me, even like watching these episodes, I'm like, he has so much to work through. I feel like he's going through like 10 years of therapy in these like the five week long show.

I don't want for Jen to have to like take all that on even though ironically the fact that he has gone through all that is I think why she sees him in such a positive light. Like she's like, wow, you're so mature. She like imputes all these really positive traits on him because of the experience that he's gone through. But she doesn't necessarily thinking through like the downsides of them. Well, it might be like one of her responses to hearing all of that is like maybe like an I can fix him. Yes. Or like I can make him open up to me type of thing. Yes. Which is, is that a fatal flaw for a woman? It actually, it reminds me of someone that I used to date, like, who was, it was a very serious relationship in my 20s. This person was like super, like extremely smart,

very playful, funny, et cetera. He had had cancer during undergrad in college and he beat it. Because of that, I think I sort of put him on this pedestal where I was like, oh, he's so mature because he's had this like life and death experience where he survived cancer. I kind of viewed everything he did through these more rose-colored glasses where I just assumed he was very mature and thoughtful, whereas I think if I hadn't known that about him, I would have been more aware of some of the like bullshit. So I think that this is what Jen is experiencing. She has these same like rose-colored glasses on because of his like life experience.

I want her to have like an easy life because she's already had a lot of trauma herself. I think it would be tough to then have to like pour herself into helping someone else work through their trauma while also building a relationship for the first time. I guess it just depends on what everyone wants. I don't know if someone would want that, but like someone might be less like or more willing to take that on. She's young. Anyways, all that to say, Jen, we are rooting for you.

Yeah. We wish you nothing but the best and happiest life. Yeah, Jen, you're doing great. You're doing great, sweetie. Guys, let us know if this was interesting to you. We're trying something new. We're very much like building in public. We're trying all these new things that you guys say are interested in

because it's coming into the mailbag. So let us know if you like it. Please remember to like comment and subscribe. And if you guys have any suggestions or any ideas of what we should do next, leave them in the comments below. Gene and I read literally we read every single comment. So leave them below and we'll respond. And so excited to see you guys next time.

Yeah. See you guys soon. Bye. Bye.