Tiger Sisters - Best Age For Business School | Workaholic Tendencies and Feeling Lonely

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

How old is too old and how young is too young for getting your MBA? This is one of the most common questions we’ve received from listeners and we tackle it head on in episode 2 of the Tiger Sisters video podcast series. We also start off with some candid highlights and lowlights from our week including a free peer therapy session for Jean’s fight against her engrained workaholic tendencies and Cherie’s feelings of "profound loneliness" post-non-stop socializing at business school. We hope you find this episode enjoyable and helpful! Hi everyone, it's Cherie and Jean. We're giving an inside look into our experiences at GSB (Stanford) and HBS (Harvard) MBA programs, and beyond. Think of us as the internet’s career big sisters! Let us know in the comments what other questions you have about career, school, or life. We want to share the ups and downs of our experiences so you can learn from our mistakes and choices. We've been there and we are here to help.

Hi, I'm Gene and I'm Sheree. And we're sisters. In this episode of the Tiger Sisters, we're going to talk about all things at business school. And specifically, we're going to talk about how old is too old to be in business school. But before we dive in, we're going to talk about the highlights and low lights of our past week. Low lights? Yeah. I don't want to talk about low lights. My low light's going to be I had COVID. So, Gene, what was a highlight and a low light? Sometimes people say roses and thorns, you know, you understand the idea. Yeah. Okay, so I'll start with a low light. I was sick this past week. So I was kind of out of commission for a few days. And as you know, it was very hard for me to like turn off, to like shut off. And I just felt really bad about like actually taking. a sick day and I felt bad that I was being unproductive but then you were like no like you need to rest like you literally need to like your job is to go lay in bed and that is your number one priority that is your action item for the day and it was actually really necessary and I think like like had kept going because of like adrenaline and I think I actually was like sicker than I realized

and then like once I like turned it off, then I was like fully in recovery mode. Yeah. I think it's a trauma response like from your days of working in banking or something or like working. Probably response. Working in finance where you're like constantly pushing yourself, where you're just like, oh, I need to feel productive, be productive. But honestly, like in this day and age, especially after the pandemic, it's like when people are sick, they're sick and they need time to like recover physically and recover mentally.

emotionally from like all of that. So I don't know. You're really pushing yourself and I was like your number one job is like to not do something but like just to relax. Well yeah, it's also like the recurring joke in tech where it was really popular the last few years to have unlimited days off. But the joke is that like nobody ever takes any days off. And by having unlimited days off, you actually have people work more because it's just like

psychological. Yeah, no. there's a lot of like conversations around like unlimited or like discretionary time off and all that stuff within tech because like supposedly if you have unlimited time off you would think people would take all the time that they wanted but people end up taking less time like I think it's supposed to be like mandated in like a more traditional industry that you have like 10 days off or like two weeks off of the entire year but people in tech sometimes end up taking less than that if they're not carefully monitoring their days. off. Yeah, not to mention the contrast between American workdays versus European work style. Did you see, there's this TikTok about Europe? Oh, you saw it, right? Was it this guy who was like roaming around Spain? Yeah. Yeah. He's roaming around Europe and he was like, Europe just needs to accept that there are Disneyland. They are America's Disneyland where we come and we just frolic. Frollic. And you guys don't really have industries. It's like your industry is being historical. Yeah, yeah. Understand that. And like,

instead of shoeing away tourists who are propping up your country through tourism, um, he was like, this is the hot take of 2024. I was like, it kind of is. I hadn't heard it said before, but, ouch. It's kind of true. Well, yeah. So that was a low light. Oh, so that was low light. And then I'll say two highlights. So one was, was, before I was sick, I actually spoke on a panel, an AI panel for this X-Prize event that turned out to be super fun. And I haven't spoken in a public event. I haven't done public speaking since before the pandemic. I used to do it a bunch in my role. So like I've done speaking in conferences all over. so like Vegas, Shanghai, Tel Aviv, L.A., obviously, Toronto.

Like, those are just some of the ones I'm thinking of. And it's definitely enjoyable. But because I hadn't done it for so long, I was actually very nervous going into it. And I also have never spoken from my, like, new, I guess, position or, like, role before. And in the past, I was always speaking sort of on behalf of Snapchat. like, you know, representing the company, representing my role. And now I'm in a new role and I'm representing myself, basically, and representing us. So, yeah, and the topic was really interesting.

It wasn't exactly what I thought it would be. It was kind of about, like, AI and, like, empathic AI in a way. And, like, how do we develop AI in a way that is true to, like, humanism. But yeah, it was actually really fun because I got to almost like formulate my own opinion as I was speaking. Like it was like I through speaking on the panel, I realized I actually have quite strong opinions about the topics. And then I just like was thinking and I said it. So yeah, it was good to break the ice there. And now I'm looking forward to doing it more. Yeah. You seem really jazzed about having that speaking opportunity, although I know you're nervous going in, but it sounds

like it went really well. Yeah. Yeah, it did go well. And then the second highlight was this morning. I went to a, like a women's breakfast together in Malibu at the little beach house that my friend Amy put on. And it was like 25 women. And it was just like, it was just so cool. It was women from all different industries and we all stood up and introduced ourselves and kind of like talked about what we're working on and how we can help each other basically. We're like, this is how you can help me. And it was just, it was just really cool. It was really rewarding. I met some awesome people. It was like a networking event. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And just the energy was very like warm and supporting, supportive and like grounded. I don't know. It's like, feels silly to like say those

words. But you just totally, you can just totally feel the difference when you're like in an environment and you feel really comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. I love being around strong women. I feel like, yeah, that type of environment is very empowering, uplifting. Yeah. I kind of gives you like hope in the world for like what women can do. So I love that. Dramatic. I said it. Um, okay, what about you? Okay, so I have to think about what my highlight is because I feel like a lot of things happen this week, but I need to figure out like what is the number one thing. I think a low light for me, um, honestly is like I'm approaching my 29th birthday, which is coming

up very soon in a few days. And I've just feeling like a real like profound sense of like loneliness, I would say. Like, I don't know. I feel like 29 is a weird year. where it's like supposed to be full of transitions and stuff. But now I'm like in a new city, trying to figure out like my new community and like, you know, this new chapter where I'm working like for us like on our own and like not having like a formal boss or a program. And also like one of the weird things I didn't realize with working alone is like how many limited interactions

you have with other people unless you make those interactions. So I've been trying to like really put out an effort to like go to like alumni events and then meet for. friends over the weekend and stuff. Otherwise, I feel a little bit like, I feel like isolated in that way. And I love hanging out with you and we hang out with each other all the time. Not you saying you're lonely when you live with me. Not you. I mean, but it's saying you have a profound sense of loneliness while being my roommate. But it's kind of different. Like we spend so much time together, you know, in both a professional and personal setting. And I think like without you, like I would be like miserable, you know, in like a new city, especially when like L.A. where I don't have like any like roots or ties in.

I would like be like Ms. And so like being with you is like I am not Ms. I'm like having fun. But it's also just like really tough being in like a new city. Whereas like had I gone to New York or SF, I would have more easily had like people like hitting me up and being like let's hang like every night of the week, which is the environment I'm used to coming out of business school. Yeah. I think it's more just the transition for you because you're coming from an environment where you're literally surrounded. by like thousands of people every single day.

Yeah. And you have so many groups of friends that coming back into the real world, it just can be a tough transition, especially if you're not in a city where there's a lot of density. And like, I know you're saying like a lot of your friends haven't actually moved to L.A. yet, like the ones who are planning to be here. So I think just know that this is a temporary time. and because if you know something is temporary, you can kind of like feel more comfortable in the discomfort of it, if you know what I mean? Yeah.

And then just kind of be like, okay, what are some of the positives of this time? And like, you're like, I can focus on me. I can like work on developing these things and then like lean into that more, knowing that it's a temporary period. And, you know, it's only, I think about Cheryl Sandberg, she has. as this like saying like the three peas, it's not personal, it's not pervasive, and it's not permanent. And like, I think about that quite often whenever like a problem comes up. Okay. Because like, oh, it's just like my social life. If things weren't moving along in like other parts of my life, I'd feel like a little bit more down. Yeah. It's not permanent,

like you said. It's like time bound. Like it's just a transition. Permanent, pervasive and, oh, personal. Like this has nothing to do with like, you know, people like not wanting to hang out with me. It's just like the circumstance. So yeah, that's kind of. something that I've been feeling, like, I would say that's a low light, especially because, like, if my birthday is approaching and it's usually, like, a very, like, festive time, I would say. So it's, like, another, yeah, that's happened. And then I would say a highlight for me is that two of my best friends have gotten married and are getting married, and I get to be a part of both of those experiences.

and they're like two girlfriends that are so special to me that I get to see them and also support them and celebrate them in this like momentous part of their life. And that's really special. I like love love and love seeing them in love and have seen them in different like parts of their lives, chapters of their lives. And so seeing this new chapter emerge for them is like for me really special. Yeah. Maybe that ties into your low light.

too. It's just that so much is going on for your best friends and you're also like a big part of that and you're investing a lot of your time since you're the bridesmaid and you were like the de facto bridesmaid for the last one. You're like investing a lot of your time and energy into like moving them into their next chapters and you haven't really fully done that yet because you're in this like in between period. Shit. Not not me. Are you my therapist? Do I need a Venmo here? That'll be $3.99. Seriously. I think, I mean, that's a really, I didn't even think about it that way, but that's probably

an accurate analysis of, like, them literally, like, being with the love of their lives, the love of their life for, you know, the rest of their life. And then me kind of being like, la, la, la, I'm in a new place, like, trying to figure it out still. Yeah. Well, and it's not passive for you either. Like, you are very involved in, like, ushering them into this next period. And you're, like, dedicating a lot of your, like, time and energy and like you know emotional bandwidth and stuff to that for them so don't forget to take some

time for yourself that's true there's kind of like a little there's a bit of a dissonance there yeah um okay so highlight and low lights okay rose and thorns i like that we should do that the future segments yeah that we have i like it well you can tell us if you guys like it. Yeah, let us know. If you enjoyed us opening up and sharing our lives with you. If you hate it, leave a comment. If you like it, leave five comments. If you hate it, leave 10 comments. Huh? Engagement. Okay. So now moving on to the topic of this podcast episode, we're going to talk about how old is too old for business school or how young is too young for business school because this is a comment that I've seen come up several times on my social media.

I know it's top of mind for many of you as applications for round one are starting for business school. What is the average age of business school students? So I graduated from Stanford's business school about one month ago. And I graduated from Harvard Business School seven years ago. I did some research online and the average age of someone who's enrolled in business school is between 27 to 29 years old, depending on which business school program you're a part of. So how old are you when you enrolled in business school? I was 26 turning 27, but I have a late birthday in December. So I was five years out of undergrad, and most other people my year were 27.

Okay. Almost everyone. Yeah. And I was 27 turning 28. So like I was more than like the normal category. Yes, but we were both exactly five years out of undergrad. Yeah. So we were the same year.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So why did you decide to apply to business school when you did? So I was a few years into my job. I had worked at LinkedIn for four and a half years at that point in product management. And the first like three years were incredible, especially because I was in a very new role learning very rapidly. my learning curve was super steep and I loved my job and it was in person. COVID happened. And so for the last year and a half, things were remote slash like hybrid. But I felt like towards the later years of my role,

I wasn't learning as much or as fast as I had in the beginning. And I knew that I wanted like a more diverse set of experiences in my life. And so like I told my boss at the time who I'm really close to. And I was like, Either I'm going to join a startup or I'm going to apply to business school and hopefully get in. And he was very supportive along that process. So how many years into your job was that? It was four years into my job. Oh, okay. So you like pretty much decided and then applied right away.

It wasn't like a long process. It was something in the back of my mind because like I saw you do business school. It was like a it was a long process in terms of like taking the GRE and like getting that like squared away to see like even if I had like a fighting chance to like. get into one of these programs given my standardized testing score. I was like four years, maybe like three and a half years actually. You had role models at LinkedIn who had gone to business school. Like you mentioned Hari. He went to the GSB. Yeah. So my like VP went to the GSB. Like a director on my team went to HBS. Some people had gone to like Hoss and like Wharton. So like that was very much like in the culture of the people who I worked like most closely with. So it felt like a

very normal thing. Although people were like, oh, it was a great life experience. We didn't really like need it because like we worked in tech. I mean, who's to say? Like if they needed it or not. Who's to say? But like, yeah. So they were very supportive of me, but I think they wanted me mostly to stay at LinkedIn. They're like selfishly. Yeah. Stay on my team. Yeah. And I think like three and a half, four years was like a good number, like a good amount of time to be at LinkedIn because the average amount of time spent working in industry before going to business school is four to five years. Yeah, because there are people who go just after two years or even after three years. Yeah, so a lot of business school programs have deferred programs, which they also call two plus two, because you apply an undergrad,

you wait for two years, basically you work for two years, and then you go to business school for two years. Well, you apply an undergrad and then they give you the decision right away. So like you get in, but they say, like, you can't start for at least two years. So go and do your job or like whatever it is, get some experience for at least two years and then come back. But you've already been accepted. So. Yeah, but also the two plus two program, sometimes people defer that even more. So they take even more time to work before going to business school.

But they have this amazing admissions acceptance in their back pocket while they're working in industry for two plus years. I think the people who go straight out of like two plus two, like they only work for two years. Like it's it sounds like it's a more challenging experience because they are on the younger end. Like they're 24 as compared to like 27 plus, maybe 29. And that's like a pretty big age difference, I would say. And also experience difference. Especially at HBS. You talk about your work experience so much in the classroom because as I mentioned last time, it's the case study.

So a lot of it is the richness of the class discussion is based on the experiences of everyone in the class. If you've only had two years of work experience, you just don't have as many stories to draw upon. Yeah. And especially at that point, too, if you're like 24, it depends on, like, the industry that you've worked in. But, like, many of these people, like, work at, like, MBB, like in consulting or also, like in finance. Yes, McKinsey, B.CG. Yeah. Like. I've never heard MBB before.

Oh, really? That's like a new thing. No, it's not. People call it MBB all the time. Not generational gaps. Yeah. not really, that's what I'm saying it's a new thing. Like it wasn't, like people weren't saying MBB like, you know. Yeah, they're saying back in my day. They're saying McKinsey, B, CG, Deloitte,

KPMG. Oh, they're also saying, um, yeah, Merrill Lynch. Yeah, when we were, you know, conversing in the horse and buggy. Yeah. We weren't saying MBB. We had to say out the words. McKinsey, B, G, G. Lehmann. Lehman. Merrill. Almost comfortable. I think they're like the age gap between like a 24 year old and also like a 29 year old experience gap can be quite stark. And like I've also heard anecdotally from people who are in the two plus two who only take two years deferred that like it can be a bit of an isolating experience. Yeah. I could see that. Yeah. And honestly it's not that big of an age difference. Like just like a few years is not really like a huge age gap.

But there's kind of like a condescension like a feeling. where like, and like I saw this also at the GSB too for like our classmates who were like 24 or 25 or just a few years younger. There's like, there's a baby of the class. It's like so cute. And like they did not appreciate that at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I kind of fed in time. I guess maybe like the flip side of it though is if you are coming in and you are the younger person, you only have a few years of experience. I guess like the other way to say it is that you have the most to learn, right? Like you do have the least work experience. So everything you learn from everyone is that much more valuable to you because you're starting from like a smaller base.

People in business school, like, they want to go to learn from other people. And if they feel that you have nothing to offer or like nothing that can like learn from you, whatever it might be in like your walk of life, whether it's personal and professional, like, they kind of write you off. They like will write you off. And like that's like completely unfair. But like it is like a darker undertone, I would say. The seedy underbelly where they're like, you know, everyone's coming into business school. Everyone's very qualified. Like, you've made it past this point. You were handpicked by the admissions committee, blah, blah, blah. But then, like, I think people are, like, looking to make those connections. And you might have a lot to offer as a 24-year-old, but, like,

on first glance, like, there will be classmates who will write you off. I think another interesting perspective that I just thought of is that you could say that the people that come in through 2 plus 2 are, like, sort of higher beta acceptance. because they haven't actually gone through. What is high a beta? There's more discrepancy or disparity between them because they don't have any work experience. So you're just taking a bet, right? As in the admissions committee, you're like, okay, this is a person that just graduated from undergrad.

I think they're going to be just as good, if not better, than the people that we'll admit in like two years or three years, like looking at their pool. Right. So they're kind of like taking more of a bet on you. And like, you don't even know what these people are going to do. I don't know. So it's kind of interesting. I never thought about it that way. It's higher beta or higher alpha? I mean, honestly, I think the HBS 2 plus 2 admissions rate is lower than the normal admissions rate of like people getting in. I mean, that would make sense. So like supposedly it's like more competitive and more selective. Yeah. But yeah, like you haven't done anything in the workforce to then like want you to go to business school. You must have had a really good track record or like potential to, you know, do something great.

Right. Yeah. So they're like really betting on your potential, but that can go, you know, amazingly or it can go sideways, but they can't retract. So if you end up like applying to a two plus two program and you get in, like I would say, if possible, take more than two years in the workforce, like three years, three and a half years, like whatever you can so that you get more work experience. Yeah. And also like if you're learning about something that you have never experienced before, it's a much more like academic. learning experience, which is different than like going into it, learning about it, having had some experience yourself. Yeah, totally. All right.

So let's move on to the flip side of that, like on the older end of the spectrum. So like the younger end is around 24 years old. And the older end, I would say, like anecdotally from my class is like mid to late 30s. Yeah. I think the oldest person in our class was like probably like 36 or 30s. 38 years old, which I think is like on the very, very high end. What are your thoughts there on like going to business school in your mid to late 30s? If it's the right path for you, you should do.

I think it could be an amazing experience. You probably do have to like potentially like not roll your eyes at like the antics of 20-something year olds because people go to business school for all different reasons. One of those reasons is to literally just take a break. Yeah. Like if you've been grinding. A two-year vacation is what some people call it, especially if they worked in finance. Yeah, and especially if they know they're going back to finance. So people have all different goals going in. And for some people, their goal is to party their face off for two years. So what do you think about going to business school when you're older? Yeah, we had some of our classmates who, I think on the older end, like you mentioned, like you mentioned, like rolled their eyes

when like there's a party bus going up to San Francisco on like a Thursday. night or something. It was just like those types of things. If you're on the older end, like, you've seen it, you've done it. You don't need to like party your face off anymore. Yeah. And many people, I think- Your body rejects it. Seriously, you drink one sip of tequila and you're like, nope, that's fine. But I would say a lot of our older classmates as well, a lot of them came in with children. And they'll go to business school. They'll bring their children and their partners with them. And when you have like obligations to another human being, aka a child, at like 7 p.m.

Like you're not going to go party your face off. So I think it's like a different, it's a different way to approach business school altogether, I would say. Yeah, just because they're in a totally different life stage. Yeah, life stage. So by definition, they're not going to have the same type of experience. Yeah. There's another program at Stanford through the business school.

That's not the MBA, but it's called the MSX. And it's designed instead of it's a two-year program. It's a one-year program. and it's like an expedited MBA program where you get to go through all the GSP classes, well, most of them. And people who enroll in this program are usually 10 years into their career already. So if you are on the older side and you don't want to be part of the MBA class and do it for two years, you only want one year, you have that option at the GSP. But sometimes there's tension between the MSX classmates and the MBA classmates. How so? Like, we'll be in the same class together, and one of the stereotypes is that, like, MBAs are, like, lazy, they don't care. They're here just for a two-year vacation. That's how the MSXers view us. And we, as the MBA class, view them as, like, more boomer and, like, try-hards because they only have one year to do the entire, like, curriculum. They, like, try much harder and they have a much larger workload.

Okay. And so there's kind of like an unspoken or maybe spoken like tension. But what's wrong with that? What's wrong with if they're tryhards? Like they're messing up the curve or something? Will sometimes be put in the same group project as them. Oh. And when like our grade depends on it or their grade depends on it, like, you know, it's just like a misalignment of what the people want. Yeah. But do they care about grades or they just like want to get the most out of it? They're just much more serious students. It's both. Like I think because they're serious students, the way. one way that they value that or measure that is through the grades. And so they're aiming for much more participation, much more, like, just like try hard in class. And there was, like, attention in the GSB that, like, existed there. That being said, there are some really wonderful people, friends, and classmates who are part

of the MSX class. Yeah. Who, like, I really, really cherish. I've had classes with them. They're wonderful. But, like, there is, like, an overall general tension, I would say. Is the MSX class? 90 people.

So it's much smaller. Okay. And then the regular GSB class is... 420. Okay. 420? I would like to do MSX. You already have an MBA.

So? I don't think you can. I mean, you can, but like you would learn the same things. What you should do, you should do. There's two other programs at Stanford. One is called the exec EMBA. Okay. Well, EMBA, executive MBA.

You don't get a degree for that, do you? No, it's like a one-week program, I think. Your company can sponsor it. Okay, yeah. And you can go and you, like, still learn from these, like, amazing professors that I've had. We have that at HBO, too. I mean, as far as I know, we don't have this MSX program, but we do have exec MBA. And the, like, joke is that that's how HBO makes the majority of its revenue.

I'm sure. That's, like, B-to-B. Yeah, pretty much. You're getting, like, companies to pay for it. Yeah, exactly. That makes a ton of sense. like a week. I don't even know how much it costs, but I'm sure it's something like way larger in comparison to like a full two years. Yeah. And then the second way you can go back to Stanford and

take the classes is if you go back as a distinguished like fellow. Oh? Yes. And these people were in my Gene Lou Distinguished fellow at Stanford. I think it's like a good ring to it. These people are literally like in their 60s. Distinguished fella. Well, like, they're in their 60s and they're like sat in my classes. Okay. And they didn't get graded, but like they get to like, there's some in my real estate class, some in my private equity class. And they get to sit in on these classes. But it's like a program that you have to apply to.

And I think Stanford like actually looks at their career with like some rigor. Is there like a minimum age? That I don't know. I'm going to be the youngest distinguished fellow. That I don't know about. But it's kind of fun having like a class of like being engaged. class with so many different types of people. And I guess all this is to say is like, be a nice person and like say hi to people. Yeah. Don't like, even if there's like a weird age gap,

like just be kind. Be kind and, you know, you're so good at that. That's something I totally admire about you. I know we've like joked about it before. Like I'm the type of person. Like the example between Sheree and I is like if we go buy something and we're like checking out, like Shri will be like, hi. How's your day? Like, long day? Like, the weather is amazing, isn't it? Like, what do you recommend here? And I'll just be like, um, Amex. You'll dissociate. Yeah. You're just better at, like, connecting with people. Well, I enjoy it. I think, like, whenever Jean and I are in the Uber, I'm, like, talking to the Uber driver, I'm like, have you just started or do you have a long night?

You know. Well, sometimes I obviously like it to be like quiet when I like get off a plane and I'm like exhausted. But like I try to really engage with people and that's like very fun for me. Okay. I think that's our episode. Okay. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of Tiger Sisters podcast and we'll see you next time. And let us know what other topics you want us to talk about. Yes. And if you like this content, make sure you like, comment and subscribe. Thanks. Bye.