Tiger Sisters - Can We Beat Mr. Beast?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi everyone. I'm Shiree. I'm Gene. And we're the Tiger Sisters. In today's episode, we're going to be talking about entrepreneurship, our startup life, what it's like and how it's going as founders. Before we get started, don't forget to like, follow, and subscribe and put all your questions into the comments. We read all of them. We read every single comment. And so let us know what questions you have or things you want us to follow up on in future episodes. And you see we usually answer them. Let's get started. Let's bring back roses and thorns. Okay, Jean, why don't you kick us off, what is your rose and your thorn? Okay, so my rose for this week is that we recently went to the SNAP partner summit, which is the annual, like, conference that SNAP puts on. Is it a

Starting point is 00:00:55 conference? It's a conference. Yeah, it's like a conference for mostly partners. And it's where we, I say we, I don't work there anymore, but it's just like mental, where we announce like all of the big things that we've been working on and all of the launches for the year. So I've been on the inside. I've been on the inside before. Well, I've always been on the inside and this is actually the first time that I've gone where I've been a partner instead of being like a team member, a presenter, like an employee. And so it was just, it was really fun, obviously, to see a lot of my old coworkers. And also, like, I am still just really so proud of everything we've built because, you know, I only left earlier this year. So like a lot of the things that we showed were things that I have actively

Starting point is 00:01:41 been working on for a really long time. So that was just like really rewarding. And it was also just it was just really fun to experience it as like the other side of it and like really get to just not be like worried about how things are going and like experiencing it in whole in a totally different way and like just seeing how actually really enjoyable it is and how much effort they put into making it a really good time for the clients. Yeah, you were as a partner in the SNAP partner summit this time. Yeah. And then the other really fun part of it was that like I got to see how well curated the guest list is and how it was really fun. Obviously there's like tons of like engineers, product managers, like leaders, like people who actually worked on it that I was like

Starting point is 00:02:37 connecting with, but then also a lot of the, like, creators that are invited, like, on the way over, like the whole experience. Like, as soon as we get out of our car, we went to a shuttle, which was like a five-minute shuttle to take us to the venue at Barker Hanger. But, like, in our shuttle was, um, Lala, a creator named Lala Milan. Yes, Lala Milan. And she has like four million, like, followers across platforms. And she's a huge, like, lifestyle fashion creator. And we were just, like, chatting her up because we, number one, didn't know who she was because I hadn't seen her content before. She was so nice.

Starting point is 00:03:11 Like, so cool. Like, was asking us a bunch of questions about our content, our podcast. It's just very serendipitous. She was just so, like, funny. Like, when you know when you meet someone and you're like, mm, like, you have such a good vibe. Like, she asked us, she was like, oh, what's the name of your podcast? And we're like, oh, Tiger Sisters. And she goes, that's hard.

Starting point is 00:03:30 And I was like, she gets it. I was like, oh, I love you. I love you so much. She's good. But yeah, just like meeting, like, like, lots of different people and like the energy created it was just really special and I have never really like fully appreciated how special it was until getting to experience it from the other side. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:49 So that was my rose. Yay. Yay. You're like glowing talking about it. I know. You're like smiling so big right now. I know. It just feels really like full circle.

Starting point is 00:03:58 Oh, it's very nostalgic too, I feel like. Because you saw a bunch of your coworkers, your former co-workers there. Yeah. Yeah. And then the thorn The thorn is that someone forced someone to leave 10 minutes before Rufus D'Sole came on. This was your thorn?

Starting point is 00:04:17 I thought it was going to be way more dramatic. It's dramatic for me because I was excited to see Rufus DeSole. That's actually not true. You were totally fine with leaving. Don't put this on me. So Rufus DeSole like an EDM DJ. I was so ready to vibe and party with

Starting point is 00:04:34 my friends. Well, so he played, he was like on at 5.30 at snap partner summit. No, at 430. Oh, at 430. Approximately at 3.30, I crashed and I was like, please, like, can we like leave? Like, I was like literally about to fall asleep. But then Jean bumped into like another two people of her friends and they started getting talking. And it was like an interesting conversation. Definitely. And like it was nice to be engaged. But like my battery was like so low that like I needed to leave. But then, you know, we got into another conversation. I felt like a little kid wanting to go home. from like a parents event. You know what I mean? I was like, I don't know why she was so tired. I've been networking. Networking is tiring. Yeah, but who are you networking with even? Well, I would

Starting point is 00:05:15 like go into these like little circles because like you would say hi to people that you were talking to. Yeah. And then I'd be like in an offshoot circle like not in your conversation. Yeah. And like talking to random people who are interesting. But then like you know when it's sometimes hard to exit a conversation? Yes. I got to get better at that. Me too. I really need to get better at that. Because I'm also like interested, but I'm also just like, I need to leave. You just be like, so great talking to you. Yeah. I need to run and find my sister.

Starting point is 00:05:46 Well, we also went to a bunch of talks as well that day. You just know the conference vibes. It's like pretty tiring. So yeah, Rufus DeSole, like really well-known EDM DJ performed and we did not get to go because I wanted to leave. I saw it in so many snaps afterwards. It looked sick. Sometimes the concerts and the snaps are better than the actual thing. I will say that out there.

Starting point is 00:06:06 Yeah. Next time. Yeah, next time. Don't bring your lame-ass little sister. Yeah. Sorry for being so cool. Said no one ever. Is it funny that I'm the lame one in this context, only in this context, and then you're

Starting point is 00:06:23 the cool one who wanted to stay and party? I'm always the cool one. That's not true. You just haven't. You haven't seen that side. me. That's true. We've never gotten drunk together. We haven't. Never. I actually told some of my friends that and they're like, what? Well, you've just always been so much younger. I know. Not that that's like a criteria for anything, but when I talk to my friends who have like siblings who are closer in age,

Starting point is 00:06:50 like they go out together and all that stuff, we've literally, the only time we've ever been out together was when we're in Las Vegas with our family. I know. But it's because I'm so cool and you just want to go home and go to sleep. That's true. I have to wake up at 6 a.m. to go to my gym classes. Let me hate me. Anyway.

Starting point is 00:07:09 Okay. What's your Rosenthorne? Okay. My rose, oh, I have a show and tell. Okay, it's a little bit hard to show. Okay, it's a little bit hard to show because my hands are very full. But as some of you might know,

Starting point is 00:07:23 Jean and I are working on our matcha brand. It's called Sisters Macha. And it's been something that we've been working on for quite some time now. and it's finally coming together. So sisters macho, I think we're going to dedicate another full episode to like talking about it or like another segment at some other time. But we have this macho brand and we've been working on the prototype. And as you can see, these are paper prototypes. I come from an engineering background and like this is something we would do in classes.

Starting point is 00:07:50 Like you would create paper prototypes before going forward to like making an actual thing. So reminded me a bit of that. But like even for computer engineering? Yeah, well, some of my classes, we would do it, especially for my like electrical engineering classes and stuff. would just like... I didn't know you took electrical engineering. It was one of our like core required classes. It's like the most base level. Wow. Yeah. And you just have to do paper prototypes and also for like my like web design classes. You would make paper prototypes and like move things around. Really? I didn't know that. Yeah. It was very fun and interactive in that way.

Starting point is 00:08:22 That's so cool actually. So Gene and I have a matcha brand. It's out for pre-order. So make sure you pre-order. It is the perfect holiday gift. And it's slated to get in right before the holidays. So we're hoping, like, all things going well. Like, it'll come in November time and then we'll be able to send it off for holiday season. And I'm just so proud because it's one size fits all. It's true. Gene and I, and I, and I, like, have spent so much time on this and on the design iteration. And we really, I don't know, it's coming to fruition. And I love, like, having a physical product. You know, more to come on like why we're creating this and like, you know, what's the plan moving forward? Because I feel like that deserved its own like, yeah. And there's a lot of

Starting point is 00:09:08 meaning behind the design too, seriously, which we don't have to get into now, but like everything we did has a reason and was like very, yeah, very intentional. And we worked with, um, a designer, which is Cherie's friend. Well, Gene and I designed this thing ourselves. Like we didn't hire an agency or anything. But we had one of my designer friends, who's now a product manager. He helped us, like, think through some of the principles. Thank you, Ian. I also consider myself to be a product designer. I think I consider myself to have product design experience as well. Not like physical products, but digital. I mean, all product managers do to some sort of sense, but he was, some more than others. But he was actually a designer before he became a PM. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:53 Like a professional. Yeah. So that is my road. Okay, so for my thorn, I feel like I'm stretched pretty thin, and I'm in like very much like a go, go, go mode, which I really enjoy. Like, I love doing all the different things that we're doing. We have macho. We have our podcast. We have our Japan trip coming up in May of 2025. I write in weekly newsletter. I write for Forbes.

Starting point is 00:10:19 I create my own content on like insert. Like I have a lot of different like works. Your LinkedIn post. I have my LinkedIn post. I'm like growing on LinkedIn. And it's, it's all good. things. And then on top of like, those are my work, work streams. I also have like a social life and then starting, you know, to take dating more seriously. And then all this other parts that like,

Starting point is 00:10:38 yes, it's all good things and I need to figure out how to balance it. But I do want to better prioritize like what are the things that are meaningful for me? And then how do I make sure that I'm getting them done this past weekend. I volunteered. That was amazing. I'm really glad I did that. It's once a month. But like, you know, I was even like considering maybe not doing that because I feel so busy. I'm like maybe I should work instead, but I'm like, that's not the right trade-off. So I think getting a little bit more thoughtful about how I make my decisions and how I use my time would calm me down. But that's my thorn. I just feel like I'm running around, you know? Yeah. I mean, I kind of feel that way too. There's like a lot going on and all of it is like interesting and valuable and we're

Starting point is 00:11:19 like excited about it. But it's just a lot. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good problem to have, I suppose. I guess for me, Like, I feel like I have, I don't know if it was like a really, really conscious decision, but I definitely have been less social in the last month or so than I had been in the past year. And also, like, I kind of think you just go through phases. Like, I think we said into a different episode, like different seasons and different reasons that was like referring to something else. But it kind of, it makes sense when it applied to like even your career too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:55 It's just a lot going on. which is what also is like the most fun part because I think if I felt this way in my like corporate job, I would be like way more stressed out or overwhelmed. But I feel like so excited about every single one of our projects that like it doesn't feel stressful. It just feels like a lot, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay, now we're going to take a quick break.

Starting point is 00:12:17 And when we come back, we're going to talk about how our entrepreneurship journey is going. Hey, everyone, quick break to share something special, sisters matcha. We've launched limited batches of seven. Marimonial grade, single estate, single cultivar, Macha, straight from the family farm Shri worked on in Japan. It's pure, authentic, and crafted with intention. Head to SistersMacha.com to grab yours before it sells out. Make Macha your daily

Starting point is 00:12:39 ritual for lasting energy and focus. Okay, so time for mailbag. Mailbag. Which is the basis of this episode. So Kusik 100 says, You guys killed it. Thank you for sharing your experiences. We'd love to see content regarding your startup process,

Starting point is 00:12:55 i.e. how you guys problem solve, resources, lessons learned, et cetera. Thank you for your question, Kusick. Good question. Really good question. I think we've gotten a bunch of other questions like this. People are very curious as to what our process is and like what we're doing because I can see from the outside why it would seem like a lot of different things that may seem disparate, but it's all part of a broader plan. Totally. And I love this idea of building in public I think in the past, like stealth mode was totally a thing. Like startups always talk about like being in stealth.

Starting point is 00:13:32 And like, yes, I understand like if you're working on like proprietary technology, like you need to be in stealth mode. But building in public and sharing with you guys is so exciting and really looking forward to diving in here. Yeah. Yeah. So I think why don't we get started with like the startup process since that was the first question. So I think what I would say about that is the first thing is to have a very thing.

Starting point is 00:13:54 is to have a vision. And Shari and I definitely have a vision. We actually have a very ambitious vision. A large vision. Yeah, I would say, like in a nutshell, if I would just say we are planning to build the next Disney. A media empire. Yeah, the New Age Disney. And that's our long-term goal. And as part of that, we have like several different hypotheses that we're trying out, kind of like in tandem, like all kind of going on at the same time. They're running in parallel. Yeah. And, And like kind of to achieve all of that, we have like short-term goals and we have medium-term goals and all of that we've sort of mapped out and been like working towards all the same time. And we basically are trying to ensure that like the short-term goals ladder up to the

Starting point is 00:14:41 medium-term goals, ladder up to the long-term goals. Yeah. And that it all sort of like makes sense. But the other thing I would say is that maybe people, what maybe people would be surprised by is that we are very unafraid to edit the strategy. Yeah, and pivot. Yeah. Like even when it seems like a major change, I guess like pivot implies a pretty big change because when we first started out, like our first project that we were expecting to work on was to make like Tiger Sisters a reality TV show instead of a podcast. So like the podcast actually came out of like after we did a ton of research

Starting point is 00:15:21 talking to like agents and producers in L.A., understanding the landscape a little bit more about reality TV and, you know, getting an answer there and we're like, oh, we should probably pivot away from this idea after we've gathered all this new data. Yeah. And like also I think being sensitive to the market and being reactive to the market, right? So like, I don't know. It's like you know how how right now like every company is pitching themselves as an AI company. Gen AI.

Starting point is 00:15:52 Yeah, well, like four years ago, every company was pitching themselves as a Web3 company. But like today, you would never pick yourself as a Web3 company just as like, you know, five years ago it wasn't as fruitful to pitch yourself as an AI company. So I think just like being aware of that, yeah. Yeah. Market trends. Also, like, in terms of being successful, what, if we were to create a reality TV show, what would it take for us to be successful?

Starting point is 00:16:16 And we did a bunch of research there. Like, do we think we can do that right now in this time and place? in this environment, like likely not. And so we pivoted away from that idea. And like kind of like in a week's time, we like had to let it go and move on to like our next experiment and our next idea. And then I think like a piece of feedback that we got that was very impactful was just like you guys should build on your strengths. You guys should leverage your strengths. And like if Sheree already has been running a podcast for the last year and like she already has a built in audience that is like self-created on specific platforms, then like, why wouldn't we lean into that?

Starting point is 00:16:57 So I was like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I mean, it's like kind of an age-old question. It's like, do you dive into the places that you're already strong or do you like, you know, go into a new area where you're the complete newbie and you have like an advantage in that you see things in a different way that people in the space. already might not be able to see. And I think we're kind of doing a little bit of both because the matcha brand, Sisters Macha is the latter where we've never built a zero experience. As somebody as someone in another comment, like people have mentioned multiple times. Like why are you building a

Starting point is 00:17:38 CBG company? Exactly. Like what you guys don't know anything about like supply chain. Like why are you doing this? Yeah. I think going back to the larger vision of building the next Disney, I kind of to dive into like the why for a little bit because I think it provides more context and the why is important. And so I think the ultimate vision of like where we started when we're like vision setting is that like Gene and I want to empower a billion people around the world to uplevel in their lives, their personal lives, their professional lives. And media is a way that we can do so especially because Gene and I create educational content where we want to be a part of your journey as much as you are a part of our journey.

Starting point is 00:18:20 And so, like, we were looking to, like, what are the companies that are able to do that on a scale? That's not just about media, but they also have commerce in different ways. Like, Disney is known, obviously, for their IP and their movies and all of that. And full-fledged experiences. And experience. Like, going to Disneyland. Exactly. So, but they also have, like, Disneyland.

Starting point is 00:18:40 They have cruises. And I think, I mean, their goal in, like, making people happy is something that we want to do, but we want to take it a step further and not just make people like. happy, but really like empower them to level up in their lives. And we believe that we can do that through our content and through our different commerce channels. So that's kind of the thinking between like how do we help the most number of people as possible and reach the most number of people as possible. Yeah. But if we were to answer like super specifically, like very tactically, how do we do it? We use Trello. So we have several different Trello boards and every week we review

Starting point is 00:19:15 and we look at like all the things that need to be done that are like P0, P1, P2, which is priority zero, priority one, priority two. And then we have a column that's like in progress. Yeah. It's like sprint planning. Yeah. Oh, exactly. For all of you people who work in the tech world, we, Gina and I do sprint planning.

Starting point is 00:19:34 We have standups. I mean, we have impromptu standups every day, but we do like a weekly standup on Monday so we know what we're working on. And Gina assigns me tasks and I assign her tasks sometimes. and then we complete them either on our owner together. Yeah. And then we also use it as like a period of time to like sit down and actually like do work together. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:53 Especially like some like sort of like annoying tasks that have to get done. Yeah. Like operational business tasks that we need to do together. Yeah. Because that needs to be done in addition to the creative task like making this podcast. Right. And so right now so far we have two travel boards. One is all about podcast planning where we plan out all the episodes and the content and we like schedule that.

Starting point is 00:20:15 schedule and like review it that way. And then another one is our broader like startup planning board where there's like a lot of admin and like long term planning. And we also just recently started one for sisters for sisters matcha, which is more specifically like all the tasks that we have to do for sisters match. Definitely. And I would say very tactically, Gene and I live, I don't want to say live and die. That's like morbid. Gene and I live by our calendars. Like we will have a calendar event for like basically everything we do, especially because we work so closely together. And then it's like nice to organize our schedules and like sync them. It's so interesting. Like a lot of my friends have commented that like it's remarkable how well we work together,

Starting point is 00:21:01 given that like so many things are aligned. Some of my friends are like, I love my sibling, brother or sister, but I could never imagine working with them. And they're like, we're so surprised that you and Gene are aligned on so many things. It's really, really special, I think, in the timing of things and also, like, our view, our working styles. And maybe there might be times where we, like, disagree or, like, go back and forth a little bit, but I feel like it's actually, I agree that it's remarkable. Maybe I'm just amazing to work with.

Starting point is 00:21:36 Well, we'll have to see with your performance review coming up. I will give you feedback then. 360. Yeah, 360. Yeah, 360. I'll collect feedback from me, me, and myself. Me, myself and I. I want to go back to your comment about stealth is dead.

Starting point is 00:21:53 Yeah, stealth mode. Goodbye, stealth mode. That's in the past. Hello, building in public. Yeah, I really like that. Me too. It was kind of a hot take. I mean, obviously, it's a generalization, you know.

Starting point is 00:22:05 Like, some things should be built in stealth mode. I mean, I was going to say like, pharmaceuticals. If you're creating a new pharmaceutical and it's like super proprietary. But then again, maybe some pharmaceuticals should not be built in self mode. Maybe that knowledge should be shared. So bad example. But you know, like so many startups who are creating like the next like innovation in AI, whatever, like they want to build in stealth mode.

Starting point is 00:22:28 But I think it's actually not just startups. So like for me, this like building in public is really a challenge and it's very outside my comfort zone as are many things that we're doing these days. because for my background, like, obviously Goldman was all about, like, the firm. Like, there was so, like, we were scared to death of accidentally ever saying something in, like, the elevator. You had that rule, right? Like, you're not supposed to talk about work in the elevator at Goldman.

Starting point is 00:22:56 Because you don't know who could be in there, like a client, a reporter, like, a competitor. A competitor. So, like, we were always, like, so scared to death and we were always like, oh, the firm, like, et cetera. So that was, like, my first experience, like, my first experience out of. of college. And then even at SNAP, we had quite like a siloed. Yeah, like we were super siloed and like very like closed door projects. So there were a lot of projects that I worked on that were even

Starting point is 00:23:24 secret within the company. And like only specific teams, like knew about it, only specific, very specific people had access to it. Yeah. Apple is the same way. Apple is known to be very secretive. Exactly. So we had like a lot of that culture, especially towards the beginning, even today, but like especially around projects that were like hardware related and like things that are more. Extra sensitive. Yeah, things that are more like proprietary and secretive. So for me, it's a major departure, but I am already starting to see the benefits of it. Yes. Which is that like when you put yourself out there and like put what you're working on out there, it's actually really surprising. like people want to help.

Starting point is 00:24:08 Yeah. People want to be involved. They want to engage. Yes. And I think like it's not purely altruistic. It's not like people want to help just because they want to help. It's because they think what you're doing is like interesting and they like want to be involved, which is kind of like honestly my own experience too because I advise these three different

Starting point is 00:24:26 startups. Yeah. And like I think what they're doing is really interesting. Like I want to be a part of it. Like I want to help them because I want to see what they're building like. be really big in the world and be successful. So that's one thing I've been pleasantly surprised by so far. There are many benefits to building in public.

Starting point is 00:24:45 I think another benefit of building in public is that you're able to talk to your audience and get feedback so quickly. Like Gene and I read all of the comments. So like we see the DMs. We see people commenting on this design, like asking questions about it. There's a lot of comments on the color about this. Blue is controversial guys. Blue is so controversial.

Starting point is 00:25:07 There are like some comments that I've seen is that like, oh, blue is a color, a negative comment is like blue is the color of a lot of skincare stuff. Like this doesn't look like matcha to me. So like I don't want it to be blue. Well, or someone was like, blue is like historically an appetite suppressant color. Oh, someone said that? Yeah. You didn't see that comment.

Starting point is 00:25:25 I was like, guys, we're not McDonald's. Like we're not, we're not going to do like red and yellow McDonald's because we want you to like eat more. We're not trying to like force it down your throat. Like we want you to like opt into it. Yeah. Well, there's also a positive comment about the blue where blue has like a very positive association in the sense that like blue is a color that can be many, many things. Blue is a color that is very versatile and can be many things for many people. So yeah. Yeah. We see the comments and I think that's good about building in public is that we're able to get a wide variety of opinions from the people who we would be selling to. So our customers, it's like really important to have that

Starting point is 00:26:05 dialogue. And I think a lot of companies that are working in stealth miss out on that. I think the other cool part, like taking that a little bit further about building public, is that also just our friends know what we're doing. And like this is kind of like one of the first times that I've really started to see like the value of our network, aka our friends, which is that just that like I feel like so many of my friends are just like, brilliant in like so many different ways and are just like so talented and like because they know what I'm doing it's really easy to just like jump into a conversation with them and like be like oh like I've been thinking about this like what do you think and like I feel like we we get so

Starting point is 00:26:46 I get so much I get so much inspiration from our friends yeah and like I learn so much from them and like I feel like every few conversations like they it turns into something where I'm like oh this is something that could really change the trajectory of our entire company what we're working on. Yeah, it's interesting. It's like, it's amazing to have that network. The conversations come so easily because they see what we're posting. They're just like, how's macha, sister's matcha going? Yeah. And then

Starting point is 00:27:12 because they're brilliant and smart and like their own ways, they'll bring like a nugget of wisdom. We're like, oh, we didn't think about it that way. We should. And then like, we'll be like, oh my God, we need to incorporate this. Yeah. It's like every conversation can be a big brain conversation. But like in the best way where it's like really fun because like we're obviously passionate about what we're building. And like when our friends like bring their lens and they're like genius to it, even for just like,

Starting point is 00:27:39 you know, like a 30 minute conversation, it's like having like an infinite amazing like board of advisors. Yeah. Who have like thousands of years of like job expertise across like all of them. Especially in different fields too. Yeah. Because we have friends across so many different. industries who bring different like wisdom to what we're doing. Yeah. And it's also fun. It's also

Starting point is 00:28:02 kind of fun to like realize that like your friends have even different skills than you like realize that they had. You know, like when we were talking to my friend yesterday, I was like, wait, you're like an amazing marketer. Like I had no idea because like the capacity I had been working with him in was like product. We were both heads of product. And I was like, what? You are so good in marketing. Like, just like, it's so fun to discover. I love it. It's really fun.

Starting point is 00:28:29 I love it. Especially talking about our own thing. It's just like we're so much more passionate about it. And like, I also really love it as well. I would say a downside to building in public that we've like run into a couple of times. Trolls. Sorry to preempt you there. I mean, I wasn't even going to say that, but yes,

Starting point is 00:28:47 trolls sometimes like on our content. But like that's just the nature. That's the beast of it. And, you know, I've been dealing with online trolls for the last four years. So it's fine. Haters don't get her down, though. The haters just power her even more. Haters are engagement.

Starting point is 00:29:03 I try to tell myself that. But I would say honestly that one of the negatives is like building in public but not, there's like a line. You need to like protect yourself and fortify your company while also sharing what you're doing. Because there are some trolls, for example, like we announced like the name of Sisters Macho. Oh, yeah. And I hadn't even like built the Instagram page yet. And like probably should have now lesson learned. I will.

Starting point is 00:29:30 But like someone created like a sister's match account that said new. Like and my guess is that they saw that I announced it and they tried to take the Instagram name of it. You know? And like it was just like stuff like that where I don't know. It's just weird. Womp. Womp. Same thing happened with like another naming convention that we tried to do where we looked it up online.

Starting point is 00:29:50 Domain was totally free. We created a LinkedIn post. We didn't buy it. We were going to buy it in like two days. We created a LinkedIn boast like announcing the name of something. And then like two days later, the domain was taken and was like going to be sold for like $200. And we're like, what the hell? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:05 You know? So I think it's like finding the balance between like building in public in real time. But while still like protecting yourself as a company and being like wise enough to know that there are like weird out, like shady people who are trying to like outsmart you in some ways. Yeah. That's something we have. hadn't really, clearly we hadn't really like considered that or like planned around it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:30:28 Narks. It's okay though. I guess like if we can learn our lesson for like $200 or whatever, then it's not that big of a deal. It's worth it. Yeah. We did try to buy the domain of like another of like sisters.com or something and someone was trying to sell it to us for like three quarters of a million dollars. I was like, hello?

Starting point is 00:30:50 You can keep the domain name. That was insane. Yeah. Anyways, like stuff like that that's behind the scenes where you're like, what is going on in building this company? Next, we're going to take a break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about the lessons that we've learned. Hey, guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on sisters matcha.com. We have sweatshirts and t-shirts that we designed yourselves. Go check it out. And please rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. These ratings are so important for the distribution and survival of Tiger Sisters podcast. Thank you for your support.

Starting point is 00:31:21 Welcome back. Welcome back. And so back to the original question is like what are some of the lessons that we've learned? We've been working on this startup for the last few months. Gene, what are some of the lessons that you've gleaned? Yeah, I think the first one and I kind of alluded to this earlier is to not be afraid to change course, especially early on. And because we are so early, like we've only launched for like a few months. Like two months, three months?

Starting point is 00:31:47 Yeah, like very, we're very early on. And when I think back about like different companies that I've been working very closely with, like there are many companies that would have been much better off if they had pivoted or like if they had adjusted more early on. So like I think that's something that I'm actually surprised by like how fluidly you and I have both been able to do that. And like because I feel like a lot of people take it really, really hard when they have to make major adjustments. So I think something that people say is strong convictions loosely held, which is basically like you want to have your beliefs, but not be afraid to take in new information and make changes and edits where we're needed. Honestly, I feel like I felt a lot of pressure in the corporate world to stay on course because there were so many more things at stake in terms of like aligning people and like having your boss tell you something. And then you have to like manage your entire. The politics and also like how people feel morale.

Starting point is 00:32:51 Like if we had like a team of engineers, I think it would be like a lot harder to like move the boat as quickly because we are moving things. When it's just you and I. We just have one engineer. We just. I have to manage myself. But like I mean that it's true though. We do have to manage our own emotions. But that's it.

Starting point is 00:33:08 And that's like not easy but like easier. Yes. Because we have each other and like we know each other so well and how we can kind of do that. Yeah. And like help each other in those. ways, it's so hard when you have like an organization. I think the other lesson I've learned is that it's okay to be working on these several different initiatives at the same time and to be like testing out these different hypotheses because I'm kind of very like in the mode right now and I was

Starting point is 00:33:35 mentioning this to you yesterday that I think like all of the things that we're working on are for a reason. Like even if one of them doesn't turn out to be like a, major like aspect of our company going forward like we are going to learn something so invaluable from it and it's going to turn into something that never would have happened had it not been for us doing the first thing. I agree. I totally agree with that statement. So I feel like it may seem like because even outside of sister's matcha and outside of the podcast, we are doing a lot of different things. So like we're speaking at conferences we are going and like reporting at, you're going to be a reporter at a conference. Yeah, I'm a writer for Forbes. I attended an event last week that I'm writing like an article on.

Starting point is 00:34:24 Yeah, I'm an active investor. Like we are doing a lot of things. And sometimes I feel like when we talk to our friends, they're like, what is going off? I'm like, I just tell people I'm multi-hyphen it. I'm like, do you really? Yeah, because it is kind of hard. I, I, I mean, I wonder if we need a better way to like package it and brand it. Model slash actress. I need a way to like package and brand it maybe. But like, you know, we're also like doing a lot with our trip to Japan that's coming up. Yes.

Starting point is 00:34:55 Yes. Like it's hard to kind of. Community building. Community building. I do think it's kind of hard to explain. When I talk to my friends, I was like, we have our podcast. I have my Instagram. I'm writing for Forbes.

Starting point is 00:35:04 We're going to Japan. We have a matcher brand. Okay. But like in my mind, in our mind, it all makes sense. It all makes sense. It all works together. And I think like I'm leaning more into this. At first I was not super comfortable with it.

Starting point is 00:35:16 But like you remember when you interviewed me on your other podcast, Sheree's Corner? Yeah. Now since on its last season, now wrapped up. But took me a long time to get on that podcast, guys. Finally. Finally I was asked on it as a guest. Yes. But one of the things that you said was you were like, after I described like all the things that I've worked on in my like history and my career,

Starting point is 00:35:41 you were like, oh, it sounds like you have always been working on the cutting edge. And I was like, yeah, like that's pretty accurate. And I feel like that's what's happening again here. Because like, what we're building is this sort of new format of a company and of an enterprise that is not like, it doesn't have an acronym that goes along with it. Right? We can't just be like, oh, it's B2B SaaS. Like it's not easily understandable because it's an entirely new entity that I think is going to be the basis of like many more. companies to come. Yeah. It's never been done before. It's never been done bibes. It's never been done. Yeah. But so like I think the different ways that we're building like a new language around it too,

Starting point is 00:36:23 right? So like us saying things like, oh, our company is a content to commerce company or us saying like we are building and monetizing IP brands and community. Like that's all kind of like new. I've never really heard other people put it that way. I actually don't think there's that many people who are doing it this way. I like think to creators or actually influencers like Emma Chamberlain or even Mr. Beast who do it. And I don't exactly, I think they're adjacent, but I don't exactly think they're doing it the way that we're doing it. Yeah. It's different flavors for sure. It's different flavors because Emma Chamberlain definitely, she has her vlog, she has her podcast. She brings you belong on her life, but it's not really like so much her business aspect as it is more the lifestyle.

Starting point is 00:37:12 Yeah. Whereas like we're doing building in public and that is part of our business. Yeah. And Mr. Beast obviously like has his content and he has his like game shows and everything. But it's not like the everyday like minutia. Right. His is much more of like a grander scale of production. His is, well, I would say his is much more of like a media company, but more of like media on new platforms.

Starting point is 00:37:35 I think it's much easier to like understand and much more straightforward, especially like the direction he's gone now. Yeah. So. So it's scary that we're doing like something that's never been done before because like what the hell. But it's also just like, oh my God, I feel like there is no playbook and we're writing the playbook. Yeah. It's just it's so invigorating. And like it's cool when you have so much conviction in something and it's your own thing.

Starting point is 00:38:04 Yeah. Yeah, I feel like that is very, very rare because there are times when I feel like I've worked on projects in the past. And this is when I've been like the most fired up and like we'll be working like, you know, 100 hours a week or something like on a work project when it's like you have so much conviction in it and you feel a lot of ownership. But this is that times like a million. Yeah. It's really special in that way because I've worked on my content for the last like four years. almost five years, but it's like only been my content, never really the business side. I've done brand deals, but like this is like our own business on top of that content.

Starting point is 00:38:44 So for me, it's a completely new flavor as well. Yeah. Exciting. Yeah, you. Okay, and we actually have a second mailbag question that I think we can touch on pretty quickly. So Seven Summer Grapes asks, how exciting. Can you share a bit more about the biggest difference in building a CPG versus software

Starting point is 00:39:01 product besides the product development process, obviously? what did you not expect? What skills you learned prior that's going to set you or your product apart? Okay, for this question, I have three points. I would say the first thing that we did not expect was physical injuries. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 00:39:20 My lip, my lip is physically injured. I was, quick story, I was taping together one of these prototype things and I had like a piece of tape and I needed to align it. I put the tape in my mouth. Because you know, you're just like, you wanted to hold it on something. Put the tape in my mouth.

Starting point is 00:39:33 Took off the tape. It ripped off a piece of my skin on my inner lip. And I was bleeding and I was freaking out. It was actually. She was actually so traumatized, guys. She was so, so traumatized. I like waxed, accidentally waxed the inside of my lip with this piece of like scotch tape. Never do that.

Starting point is 00:39:54 Do not put tape around. It's like actually a PSA. It's like, you know when you see those PSA's on TikTok that you like sent all your friends that are like, don't drive with like a claw clip on the back of your head. head. This was a PSA. Never put tape around sensitive skin. I don't know if you're doing that otherwise, but literally my lip was like bleeding and like now is still healing and I'm just quite unhappy. Okay, I just had to give a chance to get that out. Thank you. That was, but it is true. It almost made it as my thorn. Almost made it as my thorn. I didn't want to draw attention to it,

Starting point is 00:40:25 but yet here we are. Okay. So that's the first one. The second one, I would say, I don't know, this is kind of obvious, but turn around time. Right? Like software is so freaking fast. Like there are times that I would have an idea for like an augmented reality lens and then the next day it would be made. And then the day after that, it would be in the app. And the day after that, it would have been used by like billions of billions of times. Billions. Billions. Well, the thing is like so far it's been fast turnaround because we've been working on the digital side. We've been creating this logo. So whenever Regina and I have a new idea, we can change it now that this is. being made into like the physical canister, like the times for wait are going to be much longer. Now is the turnaround time. Now is the turnaround time. So now we're waiting, which... They're creating a sample to see what it looks like.

Starting point is 00:41:15 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's just different because I don't know, when you work in software, you're always like in the mix. Like you can always be like editing and changing things all the time. Not that you necessarily should be. It's not always the best practice, but you can be.

Starting point is 00:41:33 And then I would say the third thing I've been. notice, that's different. The thing I've noticed already is obviously scaling. For like software, you just build it one time and then you can scale indefinitely. Versus like this, it's obviously a physical product. And the way that we chose to do it is we are actually making, even within the category of that physical product, an ultra-premium version of that. So the fact that it's single cultivar, single estate, ceremonial, like all of that. It's literally from a single family farm. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:10 So like we are obviously constrained by the operational capabilities of the family farm, which has three like three non-farm or employees. Yeah. So so that part is very different. But I actually think that almost like, I don't want to say subconsciously because I don't want to like not give ourselves credit for this. But like the fact that we decided to go ultra-premium with it actually fits really well. And the fact that we're doing it all small batch.

Starting point is 00:42:41 Yes. It actually fits our approach really well. It fits our approach. And also I know there are ethos. There's a lot of like influencers who have created macha brands themselves. And I think a lot of it is centered on like their love for macha, which Jean and I have, obviously because we're creating this brand but I think behind it too there's like

Starting point is 00:43:02 we it's small batch small family farm we're connecting with this like one family who owns this one farm like I've seen some influencer like behind the scenes of their like macha videos and how they process their matcha in Japan but like it's these like giant warehouses and factories and that's not what we're doing at all she would never I mean it's going to be a problem if we want to scale

Starting point is 00:43:23 to like three million canisters of matcha right now we have 300 that we're We're going to smell. We're going to sell small. We're going to smell. She's going to sell she seashells by the seashore. 300 that we want to sell small batch. But like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:40 So like it's. What was that again? Sell small batch. We're going to sell 300 that we're going to sell small batch. Exactly. So yeah. I don't know. It's special.

Starting point is 00:43:50 It is, it does go hand in hand with our ethos of who we are and what we want our company to represent. Yeah. So. those are the things that are different. I would also say like one way we're trying to differentiate ourselves because like there are a bunch of macha brands out there is the storytelling. It's like so important to understand like Jean and I believe like what you're buying and

Starting point is 00:44:14 what is the story behind it because like people now you, you, what's it called with your dollars? You support. I don't know. You support with your dollars. It's like you. you like opt in with your dollars you like express yourself with what you buy like even like everyday consumable purchases are now like what I consider to be like ego expressive like every time

Starting point is 00:44:41 you make a purchase it's saying something about yourself right like exactly like one thing one way sheree and I've been sort of like jokingly referring to it is just like the yassification of like so many different categories so like 10 years ago if you ask someone like hey what's your favorite olive oil? Like nobody would have an answer because nobody knew olive oil brands. And now there are so many that are like very heavily branded, beautifully designed, artisanal. Like you understand the, um, they have varietal too. Yes. My favorite is be cool. But of course, you have a favorite olive oil varietal. Um, but that's happened. That's taken like 10 years to start to like come to fruition. The justification. And like it's actually happening to a lot of different

Starting point is 00:45:26 categories because also I think because okay this is maybe a hot take and it's like very new but also things are generally more expensive to buy now yeah so like inflation yeah so I feel like people maybe want to be more intentional about even purchases that used to be very just like no thought given to it yeah I think I mean there is like a very intentional consumerism now and even though like we would love it if you would buy our matcha because of us and like support us as creators. I would say like in addition to that, like who we are as creators is like working and telling the story of the small family farm that I worked on. And like what is the history of tea farming in Japan like just very briefly like the farm that I worked on like surrounding it. Like those

Starting point is 00:46:19 tea fields have been owned by like seventh, eighth generation tea farmers. There's a huge problem in many Asian countries and in Japan of aging population. And so many of these tea farmers are, you know, aging out and they don't have people to take over their farms because their kids are living in the cities nowadays. It's like this whole like national geographic, like, you know, esk type of view into like the tea farming industry, which is like a huge historic part of Japan. And that's like a story that like interests me, deeply, deeply interests my academic side. And we haven't even talked about that at all ever.

Starting point is 00:46:54 Like basically, like, not to put too fine of a point on it, but like by buying this matcha, you are supporting literally, like financially supporting the regeneration of matcha tea farming in Japan. Small tea communities. Yeah. In Japan. And that's like, no one talks about it. Which is a dying practice. And like, yes, you can buy this like new fancy type of macho that like some influencer is created or, you know, some brand has created. But like the story behind ours, like, I.

Starting point is 00:47:24 love like connecting and is saying that it's the national geographic point. Do you know what I'm trying to say? It's like kind of like the documentary aspect of it. Yeah, I get what you're saying. It's like the academic, the history, like the learning about like where does this come from. That is just like so cool to me. Not only with macha, but like whenever like I buy like a piece of pottery or like even a piece of clothing, especially when you're like traveling to a new place, Like I just want to know about its origins and the historical context in which this was created. Yeah. Who created it?

Starting point is 00:47:57 It's just like I like that. I don't know. I think you're not alone in that. I think that more and more so people of our generation, more so your generation, are like very invested in the like provenance and like the heritage of every single piece of clothing they wear. like every piece of like, you know, skincare, like everything that they consume, like, people are much more intentional than ever before, which is very different from like, I feel like my generation is like kind of the like Forever 21, like Zara Inditex, like fast fashion, like to be, to be like devil's advocate though, like I still see, still see that aspect

Starting point is 00:48:43 because like Sheehan is massive here. And people know exactly what Sheehan's doing. And that's like fast fashion foundation. Yeah. So I don't really know how to like grok like this growing trend of like young people being very conscientious. But then also other like the masses still wanting the mass produced stuff. I think it's not one or the other. I think people are doing both at the same time.

Starting point is 00:49:07 Like it just depends on your your wallet. Right. So like people, they're buying Sheehan. but if they could afford it, would they buy, like, Loeve? Like, would they buy, like, they're buying Shee in for clothes, but then they're buying, like, one really, like, special pair of shorts from, like, Lisa Sezga or something like that. I don't know that brand. Well, yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:31 So, like, I think, like, they're choosing or they're, like, going to their favorite coffee or match shop and, like, buying, like, a $7 matcha, like, every week because that is, says something about them, but they can't afford to do the equivalent when it comes to like a full outfit, right? That's interesting. It's like it can take place in like certain parts of their daily habits, but maybe not all parts. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:55 Yeah. Yeah. People are still, I think, like, graduating into that. But and then also that I think that's why like vintage shopping has come back into fashion, like so hard. Mm-hmm. Because it's like a way to do that and a way to like have, automatically like a story and like a history to your outfit and your clothes in a way to be

Starting point is 00:50:18 unique but at a more affordable price point and there's also like a little bit of like clout that comes with vintage shopping as well in that like it is good for the environment it is good to reuse and buy like use clothing so yeah it's interesting thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode of tiger sisters please remember to like comment and subscribe and we would so appreciate it if you could share this episode with someone who might find it helpful. Thanks so much. See you next time. Bye.

Tiger Sisters - Can We Beat Mr. Beast?

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