Tiger Sisters - Dating 101 (as two single ambitious women)

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Struggling to balance your career goals and quest for real love? Look no further! In this special Tiger Sisters bonus episode, Jean (mid-30s) and Cherie (late-20s) reveal their newly discovered 3-part formula—Stability, “Juice,” and that elusive X-Factor—to help you find (and keep) genuine connection.Expect raw truths on heartbreak, honest talk about dating apps vs. meeting IRL, and hard-earned lessons about building long term relationships—applicable for both single and coupled people.Want to make room for both ambition and meaningful romance? Check out this episode and don’t forget to subscribe for more real-life insights!------------------------------------------------------------------🐯🐯👯‍♀️ Tiger Sisters Podcast | Career, Entrepreneurship, and LifeWelcome to Tiger Sisters, your go-to podcast for career mentorship and life guidance! Hosted by Cherie Brooke Luo and Jean Luo, we’re your internet big sisters here to demystify the ups and downs of navigating careers, tech, and entrepreneurship— all while staying healthy, stylish, and joyful along the way.Cherie is an influencer who has broken down the complexities of big tech, finance, and MBA programs for millions of viewers, with over 100M+ views across platforms. Jean is a tech product executive and investor, holding over 50 AI patents, who has built an impressive career in product management and institutional investment at companies like Goldman Sachs and Snapchat.Between the two of us, we’ve survived stints at top investment banks and big tech firms, founded startups, and earned four Ivy League degrees—if we’re counting Stanford! Yet, we still find time to focus on wellness, friendships, fashion, and skincare, always sharing the lessons we've learned along the way.Whether you’re here for career advice, stories about balancing life’s challenges, or just to hear our honest takes on what it means to pursue fun, wealth, and joy in all areas of life, we’ve got you covered.💛 LET'S CONNECT: ~ CHERIE ~🤳🏻 Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/cherie.brooke 📱 TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/@cherie.brooke ✍🏻 My Substack – https://cherieluo.substack.com/ 👩🏻‍💻 LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherie-luo/ ~ JEAN ~🤳🏻 Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/jeanluo_/👩🏻‍💻 LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanluo 🎵 Music produced by Sammy Signal https://open.spotify.com/artist/2HsyknHuxhT8RoZfn5rqMS🛍️ Items Referenced:🍵Sisters Matcha & SISTERS Merch:www.sistersmatcha.com✨Tiger Sisters & Friends Japan Trip (May 2025): https://trovatrip.com/trip/asia/japan/japan-with-cherie-luo-may-2025  ♠️ Everything else: https://amzn.to/3z0dx5b⏰ Timestamps:00:00:00 Single, Ambitious & Over It? Welcome to Our Dating Dilemmas00:01:22 Roses & Thorns: Winter Blues and Sonoma Wine Country Magic00:09:26 Girl Gang Goals: Cherie’s New Founder Besties00:14:36 Ouch! Cherie’s Golf Injuries & a Goopy Deep Cut00:17:56 Why Romance Matters as Much as Career Success00:19:19 Jean’s Heartbreak Confession: 8 Years Down the Drain?00:24:18 The 3-Part Love Formula: Stability, “Juice,” & the X-Factor00:33:21 Chemistry vs. Commitment: What Really Lasts?00:38:58 Jean’s Biggest Lesson: Do Values Actually Align?00:43:33 The “8 Dates” Book: Why We’re Intrigued…or Terrified00:51:12 Hinge Confessions: Why Does It Feel Unhinged?00:56:09 LA vs. SF vs. NYC: Best City for Dating?00:58:28 Falling for Love Again: The Thrill & The Fear01:00:12 Holding Hope and Hopelessness at the Same Time01:02:00 Coming Soon: Egg-Freezing & Deeper Dating Talk01:02:55 Thanks for Watching—Love You!!

What is it like dating as two ambitious women who are single in their late 20s and mid-30s? Jean and I talked about dating in our season one episode of Tiger Sisters, and now we're giving you a dating update. And also going to talk more about relationships, how we see dating apps, our formula for dating happiness, and balancing, feeling hopeful and also hopeless while dating at this age. I'm Shuri. I'm Gene. and wear the Tiger Sisters. With Valentine's Day coming up, we wanted to do this special bonus episode for season three. In addition to all of our amazing interviews, we kind of thought we'd interview each other.

And this is a very, very highly requested follow-up to the earlier dating episode that we had. So excited to get into it. And we'll get started right after this break. Hey guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on sisters matja.com. We have sweatshirts and t-shirts that we do. design yourselves, go check it out. And please rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. These ratings are so important for the distribution and survival of Tiger Sisters podcast. Thank you for your support. Okay, so we're going to start off with roses and thorns.

So, Gene, what is your rose and your thorn? Okay, I'll start with my thorn. I have been having sort of a bout of sad, seasonal effective disorder or seasonal effective depressive. I don't know, disorder, I think. But it's basically like the winter blues, but it's actually clinically, it's the clinical name for winter blues. And I remember I got it really, really badly back in Boston seven years ago. And that was part of my calculation for being like, oh, like, I should move to Los Angeles after school, like the land of where it's only sunny, basically. But this year, this winter. And like I get like a little bit down every winter, but this winter with like the, you know, the fires in L.A.

And then just like kind of like running around and everything. And you were sick for a little bit too. And I was sick. I had pneumonia from the fires. I just have been feeling kind of like in a funk. So I've been trying to do things to like get out of it while also not being like too hard on myself. So that's kind of my thorn. And so anyone else who goes through who feels like winter blues or you feel like you're in a funk,

I see you. I feel you. You're not alone. We got this. Don't be too hard on yourself. Do things that are like rejuvenating for you. Yeah. And then at the same time, like what I'm trying to do is like push myself a little bit to do activities even if I really don't want to.

because I think that's, like, one of the underlying feelings of, like, when you're in the sad seasonal factors disorder, like, period, you just, like, kind of don't want to do anything. Yeah. You feel, like, nesting and resting more. Yeah, like, you just feel like, like, you don't want to do anything. Like, you're like, oh, I can't possibly bring myself to do this. Or, like, you just feel like, kind of like, you know, when you're in your, like, ludial phase for women out there, when you're, like, I cannot bring myself to do anything. it's like feeling like that like all the time for many weeks on end so that is the thorn well you that's also we have bright lights on us to simulate sunlight which is one of the things that can help sad yeah get a

happy lamp so you're saying I should record more episodes geez just trying to put me to work maybe um okay so that's the thorn but I have a fabulous rose which is this past weekend I went up to Sonoma and had an amazing weekend away with four of my girlfriends from HBS. And we basically like descended upon Sonoma from like I came from L.A. My friend came from Texas. One came from New York. And then two of them live in SF. So like we all like flew in from like all corners of the United States.

And it was just like the most like rejuvenating like wonderful. weekend to like reconnect yeah like girl time is so special actually one of the things that one of my girlfriends said at the time she was like she was like you know like women girlfriends really carry you through life she's like yes there's men there's partners there's you know you'll have your boyfriends and your husbands but she was like I've always said like girlfriends carry you through life that's so sex in the city so it that's what charlotte actually said before she's like what if wear each other's so much guys. And you know, guys are just, you know, there. Yeah. Yeah. So like not only was it fun and

rejuvenating and like really help me. Like I almost I almost I really like for not a split second, for a moment in time, I really almost didn't go because I was so like in my sad. I was like, oh, now I have to like take a flight and like go and like then I was really sad. I was going to be rainy there over the weekend because there was an atmospheric river. But it turned out to be wonderful. And also like what's crazy is so the group of us like we aren't always in like super close contact. So like we hadn't been together in person since last May. And what is crazy is how many things like life changing events have happened for all of us in the time between May and now, like February or end of January. It's like eight months. Yeah. But I was like shook.

Yeah. Like, like major like life changing like health events like it like near death health events like like changing of like jobs like you know a changing of relationships like so many things have happened. And it's just like I don't know. It kind of it really gives you perspective in a way to to really share yourself like so so like deeply and honestly like tell. your friends, like your true everything that's going on and like vice versa. It's just like, it's very special. Yeah. And be open with a group of women who support you and support you through like my professor Joel Peterson says at Stanford.

Like he says that it will always, it will rain in everyone's lives. Like the rain will fall is what he says in everyone's lives. Be that like the death of a family member. a huge health crisis. Yes. And you just need to find support systems that will help you get you through the rain because he's like, there's nothing else guaranteed except for like rain in your life. Yeah.

Well, but it's also it's also really interesting because like we shared these things with each other. But then also like on the surface, everyone's life looks like amazing. Like if you just were to be like not super close friends, but like, friendly with a person you'd be like, oh my God, like you're killing it in so many different ways to do it and not know that like deep down there are these like giant pillars that are changing and impacting them. Yeah.

So yeah, it's not all like doom and gloom, but I'm just saying that like it's really special to be able to like share yourself fully with people. And okay, this is the other thing is that they are all women that I deeply respect on like many different levels. And like I feel like I learn from them. And yeah. And it was also helpful to just go and kind of like plug into. So one of my friends, she lives in San Francisco. And so we like stayed at her place in Sonoma. And it was just also really fun to like plug into somebody else's life for just a couple days and just like see how they live and almost like learn from them in that way. You know? Yeah. You get to live vicariously.

Yeah, a bit to be like, oh, like, I love your interior decoration. Yeah, I love your style. Yes. Yeah. And it's also nice sometimes, I think, for them to, like, see your admiration of them, like reflected, you know, like, you're kind of like mirrors of each other in a way, like real friends. That's so special.

Yeah. So it was, I feel like a much, much needed weekend that just so happened to be, like, at the perfect time. and it was like a really really good rose to like the thorn i was really happy you went to sonoma and i actually told mom about it too okay and she was really narc but and she was really happy that you were going too oh thank you yeah like it's good for you i feel like um to catch up with girlfriend especially ones that you you hold so dearly yeah yeah it was really nice um so how about you what is your roots and thorn my rose is actually

actually similar. Okay. Yeah. It's not my like old friends, but it's new friends that I've made in L.A. We have a group of girlfriends. There's like four of us. And we are all, the thing that has brought us together is that we are all founders, co-founders of CPG companies. So Gene and I have founded Sisters Macha, which is our Macha brand. We're drinking here right now. You might have heard from an earlier ad that we put in there. But so Gene and I have co-founded Sisters Macha. And And then these three other women who are in my like LA girlfriend group are also CPG founders. And these three women are brilliant, really special. We have like so much to talk about, of course, on the business side because we all respect each other.

But we all kind of have different like specialties as well. Like they come from different backgrounds. One woman is in private equity. Another person used to work at a larger, like much larger like food brand. And the last woman has experienced. working in like beauty, but at like a giant beauty company. So like it's so interesting how we've come together. And I really and then your tech and then one was McKinsey. Exactly. Tech, McKinsey. And then two of the women went to HBS. They recently graduated my year. So we've also bonded and

talked about that. And that's actually how I know one of them. And they're also like super fit, really well adjusted like go getters and super career driven. So I really respect that. And I really respect them as people too and I've talked to one of the women about like we've talked about like dating and guys and like I can just tell like they also really respect themselves a lot and have a very high bar for themselves in all aspects of their lives yes and that just makes me respect them even more because you know we're kind of talking about boys at one point and like who this girl's dating and she was just like giving like a very no BS response to be like can you believe he did that and she's like that's that's unacceptable actually. And like I will not tolerate that. You know, I was just like, yes,

you know. I love no BS. The older I get, the more I value no BS. Yeah. Um, I, I really appreciate this group. And then this coming weekend, um, I'm actually going skiing with one of the women, um, as well, who's in, who's brought me into her friend group here. And so I, I, I so appreciate that. And it just goes to show the power of female friendship. Yes. Well, I'm just going to say like the power of female friendship is also there's something really special in like the group where it's like you admire each person so much in different ways but then also it's kind of like reflects on you as well. It's like you see their beauty and their power and their like magnetism and their skills and their kindness. And then it's also a reflection on you. Yeah.

It's like it gets all of that goodness is also reflected back to. you. That's right. But it's funny that you were like talking about how amazing this group of girlfriends are because I also have like a newer group of girlfriends in L.A. that like the joke that we made when we like first all hung out was like we are like basically the C suite of like a Fortune 500 company. That's funny. They're all like one is like a super successful like lawyer. What like I worked in product one is a product designer um one is um like a marketing like CMO like everyone has just hell yeah that has their own lane is like amazing and um wait a second don't start a company with them now because we're doing stuff but consider it later on yeah yeah but it was just like a joke that

like yeah that's powerful maybe your group chat should be called the C suite although that's like kind of disgusting in corporate, but like, you know that June and I like that shit. So if you're here watching this, you like it too. So got him. Or you will like it. The more episodes you watch. Oh my God. Okay. Wait, I kind of love this. This episode was meant to be about dating and relationships. And then I love how it's both of our roses were about Galentine's Day. Yeah. And non-valentine's Day. Yeah. Yeah. I do have a Galentine's Day planned. Oh, so do I. Actually, one of of the women who's in the group of the four of us is hosting a Galentine's Day. See? Oh, I love that. My girlfriend is flying in from Aspen for our Galentine's Day.

Are you guys hanging out on the 14th? I think on the 13th. Yes, 13th and 14th. Wait, what are you doing on the 14th? I was thinking about this. Should we do something together? Maybe. Being busy? Okay. I'm not going to commit on camera. Oh, my God. I was going to invite you on a date for sushi, but never mind, you're paying. Okay. And then so I'll just wrap up with my thorn. I've had, I don't know if it's like persistent or acute, but I've been having back pain.

That is my thorn. She's only 29, ladies gentlemen. Guys, this is 29. They're one year early. 30 is coming up so soon and like, oh my God. In less than six months. Holy shit. Wait, holy beep.

Oh my God. Gosh. Okay, anyways, I have back pain. It was first started a couple of weeks ago when I was playing golf a little bit too strained. Like the activity was too strenuous. She played golf like three days in a row. Three days in a row. I swing really hard and it was 25 degrees, 29 degrees. And then I've been working out a lot. So I've also kind of like strained my back again. She's playing sub freezing golf. Yeah. So I think I need a chill. Yeah. And take it easy. A little easier. No kidding.

I've been going to the gym like for 10 days in a row, which I'm really proud of. But I think I need to go a little bit easier and have more rest days. Like walk more, stretch more. Because this is 29 and a half, guys. So I need a chill. So that's my thorn. And I'm trying not to get injured when I'm going skiing this weekend. So I really, it's like on my mind, you know.

So that's my thorn. Yeah. Don't be the one loser at Deer Valley. I mean, I lost half a day of skiing. That's such a good reference. Does anyone know that reference? That's a reference to when Gwyneth Paltrow had to go to court because she had a collision with another person. I think someone collided into her.

Yes, but he still sued her. Right. And it was at Deer Valley. And it was like, they're like, what were they the losses, man? And she's like, ma'am. And she's like, well, I lost half. half a day of skiing. But what was iconic is at the very end, after the judge ruled in her favor and the man lost,

she, I think she was wearing this, like, white suit, like a cream blazer. And she, like, walked up to him at the end and she, like, touched his shoulder and, like, leaned into his ear and, like, whispered something into his ear. And they walked away. Really? Well, apparently what she said was, like, I wish you well or something like that. like I hope you know you have a good life or something I did not know that I have to look this up now to see exactly what she said interesting but it was like it was like a kind thing to say

but you know it could be slightly ominous too it's a little bit threatening it's like yeah I wish you well and yeah like I hope you have a nice life you know you know watch out, you know, the undertones. Anyways, all right. Let's dive right into the episode. Yeah. And we'll get into the episode right after this quick break. Hey, everyone, quick break to share something special.

Sisters Macha. We've launched limited batches of ceremonial grade, single estate, single cultivar, Macha, straight from the family farm Shari worked on in Japan. It's pure, authentic, and crafted with intention. Head to SistersMacha.com to grab yours before it sells out. Make Macha your daily ritual for lasting energy and, focus. Okay, so welcome back. Wanted to dive right into this episode and give you guys some context. So, Gene and I are going to be talking about dating and relationships and romance and all that

stuff. But if you've been watching, you know, season three of Tiger Sisters, you know our content is usually very professional. In season three, we're interviewing investors, CEOs, founders, professional people. Gene and I truly believe that Tiger Sisters represents the whole self. Like we can talk about our careers, be super driven and ambitious as the title of this, you know, video says. But that also includes how it's going with relationships, both, you know, friendships and romantic. And we want to talk about this more openly with you guys. It's usually not something that we talk about, but we hope to inspire more conversation around it because it's the conversations we're having with each other and with our girlfriends. Yeah.

And I think you guys know that, you know, in the. past, I have kind of worked on being more vulnerable and more open for the sake of this podcast. And thank you so much for all the feedback over the last couple seasons and the comments of saying like how me being vulnerable has helped you guys in certain ways. That's really encouraged me to continue to be open and vulnerable. And also, I was even more convinced that we should do this episode when I saw the most recent Call Her Daddy episode with Rachel Kirkconnell, who was the winner of The Bachelor, I think like four or five years ago. And she and her partner Matt just recently broke up after a four plus year long relationship.

And I didn't watch the whole episode, but I watched some short form videos and snippets of it. And just like through the course of that and like hearing the conversation between Rachel Kirkconnell and Alex Cooper, I just heard her say things that I resonated so strongly with and I had never really heard anyone else say. And she kind of verbalized things. I'll give you an example. So the strongest example was when she said, she was like, yeah, I just felt really sad because I imagined all these like future children with Matt and they were. like all gone. And she was like, I don't know if that, you know, I don't want to sound crazy. And then Alex Cooper jumps and she goes, no, you don't sound crazy at all. And that is something,

that's like a feeling that I myself have had after the dissolution of my engagement and eight year long relationship. Like, you know, that was something that for so long, for all eight years, I had already like conceptualized a life and a future with this person, which included, like, beautiful in my mind children beautiful imaginary children yeah that I had thought about for so many years and like it was like kind of like a foregone conclusion and it was almost in a way like the you know the dissolution of that relationship and engagement like it wasn't just the relationship but it was the entire future life was just like kind of like poof like up and disappeared including all of those like imaginary children that I had had in my head for

almost a decade. So like hearing her say something so similar and then hearing Alex Cooper be like, no, that doesn't sound crazy. Like that was so powerful. Yeah. And it really touched me in a way where I was like, these sorts of conversations are important for us to be having. Like they are pretty much like equally just as important, I think, as all of the conversations we have about like career growth learning because you know your life is like a holistic picture yeah um so yeah i just think that maybe like to some people these conversations seem trivial or like not as important as the ones that are more professional but i have come to the realization that they are just as important because these are all the things that we're going

through in life. Yeah. And that's my soliloquy. Monologue. Thank you for the yes. I mean, honestly, like people say the most important decision you'll make in your life is who you choose to marry. Yeah. So, I mean, it's the most important decision that'll affect your finances that'll affect, you know, your progeny that'll affect your immediate... Your progeny. You'll lie in that? Progeny. And it'll affect your immediate family. It affects your daily health because it's the person that you spend the most meals with. Right. Your habits too. Like what are their habits? Yeah. If you go to the gym. Yeah. Or don't go to the gym. You know, if you guys are more sedentary. I mean, it's just

everything becomes so intertwined. So it seems natural that we talk about this. But I agree. Like, I don't know why in society it has become more trivialized or like Zena's like, that's not a serious topic. But like if we're going to talk about it in like kind of an academic way, guys, I bring up a formula. I made a formula. Like, I am thinking about it in a much more, like, structured way. Yeah. I think it gets trivialized because it's considered, like, a women's topic. And not to say, you know, not to bring up the patriarchy, but the patriarchy. But the patriarchy sort of like by default trivializes anything that is like considered to be like a women's topic. I think. I mean, mean in a like heterosexual relationship it I mean in every relationship it takes two but in a heterosexual

relationship not an ever relationship maybe three is that what you're getting oh I was thinking some people say they're self-partnered oh never mind you went down the number I went up a number remember Emma Watson said that a few years ago she was like I'm self-partnered I was like I think she said that in a vogue article that's some bullshit Just kidding. I'm watching. Guys, I read Vogue for the articles. Yes, sure, sure.

Like I said, there have been many, many requests for a part two of our dating episode. And one of the questions that we got from the mailbag, I will read out loud. From boarding 7-Eleven, they asked, I'd love an in-depth analysis of what worked and what did not work in past relationships to help inform the future. Great question. Thanks. Thanks for asking. It's only something that I've been thinking about every single day of my life. And now I have a platform to talk about it.

Yeah. And so funny, actually, after our first dating episode went out, I think there's close to like 15,000 views on that episode. Like a lot of my Stanford friends actually like messaged me. Oh. Because I think they were like, they wanted the tea. They like wanted the juicy, the sip, you know. Okay. So this is part two of that dating episode.

I just thought it was funny. I have been doing a lot of reflecting, especially as, you know, the new year just happened. And I was thinking about like, what do I want for 2025? I want to be more intentional with dating. And so I've been reflecting on my past relationships. And I've come up with a formula for happiness. Roast me in the comments if you'd like or provide. For dating happiness.

Yes. Yes. For dating happiness. For relational happiness. Romantic relation happiness. Exactly. First of all, this is personal. Like, I don't know.

You guys can listen to it. And maybe if it resonates with you, you can adapt it to your life. said results may vary. This is not my professional opinion. This is my only, you know, my only lived experience. But so I'll give you guys the formula. And I also like don't know if a formula is like what you need for love. Like it seems like love and an equation inherently do not mix. Well, I think it's just for you, it's helpful as an exercise to have a structured way of thinking about it. Yeah. As opposed to feeling like, I don't know, there could be like 50 million inputs and how do you know what's actually important and what's not important. And this is the way you've come up with

this formula is through your experimentation of dating and what you've learned from your past relationships. And then this is like a very structured way for you to apply your learnings. So like summarize and then apply your learnings going forward. It's honestly like guardrails. I feel like. Mm. Because I'm like, I kind of need these things to feel fulfilled and happy in a romantic relationship. So here's the equation.

On the other side is happiness. Happiness equals and it's three things that make up this equation. The first thing is stability. Second is what I'm calling juice. And the third is an X factor. So stability are all the things that I feel like I need to feel very like safe and cared for in a relationship. And a lot of these things are what some people might call baseline.

But I have since like put a label on it and a name. I'm like, okay, these are the things that I need. So I feel like an example of stability is like feeling prioritized, being like considered in decisions, picking me up, dropping me off, like taking the initiative to plan dates. I want to be thought of when we're not together, showing me that we're thought of. These are like things that make me feel very safe in a relationship. psychologically safe and also physically safe. And I think in my past relationships, I had felt not prioritized.

It felt really bad. We had really good chemistry, juice, which I'll get into. But like, I don't know. I just like didn't feel like they put as much time and energy into the relationship as I was. So that's stability. Jump in if any questions. I'm absorbing. Okay. And juice is, I don't know if I need to explain this one. It's just chemistry. It's just like,

are you viving with someone? Why are you calling it juice? That's what my therapist called it actually. Oh, okay. Like I described it to him and he's just like, that sounds like juice. And I was like, okay. Do you not like that word. Oh, it's unusual. It's memorable. It's memorable. Okay, so we'll go with that. Yes. So juice. Juice. But honestly, like I wrote down all the things that are like juicy to me. And I want to clarify that like none of the things that I listed were physical traits. It was all like very much like am I intellectually stimulated? Do you have a good sense of humor? Like do I feel like very connected to you right now? So juice is just attraction? It's attraction. I do think it should include physical attraction though. Yeah, of course. Yeah. But I guess when I first thought about it,

like none of the things were about physical attraction. But that needs to be added. I think it's because your definition of being physically attracted to someone is not like so prescriptive. Like it's not like they must be brunette or they must be blonde or like anything like that. So I think it's just being attracted to someone. Yeah. Physically attracted, whatever it may be. Humor is a really big part of what I find attractive to. And so having a good sense of humor is definitely part of the juice.

And the last is an X factor. I'm calling an X-Factor. I think even in my platonic relationships, like my best friends, my best guy friends, best girlfriends have an X factor about them. They're just like really interesting people who are passionate about something. And they're like a subject matter expert in something because they're just nerds. They like care about like running or they care about, you know, mountain biking or about like content creation. Like whatever it is.

Like I think my friends are just so interesting. And I think dating people who are also interesting and have hobbies and are not just focused about work is something that I've found very stimulating. How are you going to like apply this formula? I'm actually like have already started applying this formula like day to day in like my interactions. Like I've gone on like two dates and I kind of see where I feel very fulfilled in the formula and where some things are lacking.

And actually last night I went. on a date and I didn't tell you this. I mean, I didn't tell you this far, but we actually had a conversation where I felt like part of the stability was lacking with this person because of something they had done on a prior date and you told them. Well, they had asked me like, they had asked me like, I don't want to get too many details here. The conversation led to us talking about it actually. And I was like, oh, I didn't feel so great when this happened actually. And I was like, it's also part of my formula, which I had like mentioned it to him. So he was familiar.

And I was like, I didn't feel like super like comfortable. She had given him a rubric. I had given him a rubric and he and graded him against this. Sorry, not exactly. She gave him. She was like, these are the areas in which you will be evaluated against if you want to be promoted. That's what you gave him. But actually.

is it called when it's like that list of like the document that we write out for promotion like promotion requirements or something like that oh my god you're so right oh it's like we call them career ladders yeah yeah yeah yeah um pm ladder or like pm roll or roll ladder these are all the requirements to get to the next stage i mean i wasn't even telling like it's i wasn't even telling him my equation she's like it came out really naturally I wasn't telling him my equation. So like to tell him I was grading him on it, I was just sharing this like new thought that I had. And then later on, I was just like, oh, I'm so in my mind. I was like, I'm so happy. I told it to him because now I can refer to like the stability element and something was missing.

And then he got it, you know? Like I wasn't putting pressure on him like to like be all these things. I was just telling him. But I'm really glad that I was open about it. Wow. We are friends. Yeah. And so like, I was like, this really interesting thing I figured out. And he was interested and intrigued by it. Yeah. That's cool. Well, so now. Now he he's like I've told him that I felt like not good. And then he's like, okay, well, I like you and I want to change that. And I want you to feel good. Wow.

These are really advanced conversations. I know. And you know, that was only like date four. So now in the future to like move forward like he knows that like I need this thing. He's like, let's make it happen is what he said, which is also not. I wasn't expecting that kind of reaction, you know, but like also that was a positive sign. Yeah. That's a very positive reaction.

Yeah. To how they respond. to my feedback. My grading group break. Damn. Okay, that's great. It's good.

I'm glad. Isn't that insane? Yeah. Like a little bit insane. I'm really glad that you already have an example of like how it's served you. I wasn't ready to have that example until like last. I didn't even know. Yeah.

Like it just happened organically. Yeah. That's kind of cool. Yeah. I mean, I have another. example as well of this rubric. I was dating a guy for about like four months most recently. And you had to like take a second to be like computing, computing. Who's she talking about? No names. No names will be named. But I know who it is. But she knows who it is. I'm just so jealous.

I'm just kidding. But I mean, it's sister privilege. It's sister attorney sister sister sister sister. Sister client privilege. Um, and this guy. And this guy. is like basically perfect in all things stability. I felt so cared for all the time. Like it was chocolates, flowers, dropping off chicken soup that he made when I was sick. Like this guy is like an angel. I was very impressed by that. Yes. And as was I. Oh my God. So thoughtful, dropping me on dinner. Like I felt incredibly cared for. But I think at the end of the day, there was a lot of stability, but I didn't feel like there was enough juice between us and like the stuff that we were talking about. So in that way, like it wasn't very compatible.

He's like incredibly generous and nice and thoughtful and I have nothing but good things to say about him. But I think in terms of just compatibility, like it didn't work out for the long term. That's also kind of why the rubric started because I was just like, this guy is amazing. Like the ultimate gentleman, like made me feel so safe all the time. I'm like, what's wrong with me? I was like, why don't I like him more? He's perfect, which is really tragic. So, and I don't think you can like force chemistry, obviously or like force juice.

So that's actually the origin of where I got this formula from. I needed to figure it out. I was just like, what else is important to me if he's everything that I've ever asked for? She did a root cause analysis. Oh, my God. Which is what we call, which is like what it's called in tech when like after you launch a product. And there's some sort of issue. You kind of do like a root cause analysis to like go all the way, all the way deep and like go like all the way backwards in every single step you took to build that product and figure out like what was the cause.

Also known in therapy as a presenting problem. Because I went to my therapy. I went like I started going to therapy again. And I haven't been in like four years because I was like therapist help. I know we've been talked in a long time. But I cannot figure this out on my own. And you are much smarter than. me, you know, and perceptive. And so it was that like there's nothing wrong with me. It's just that

I didn't realize there are other parts of the formula that were equally as important. Yeah. Or verbalize it. I mean, also, yeah, you hadn't come up with a formula yet. And then also, I think as a result of your most recent relationship before that, you had over indexed towards stability because that was the number one thing that was missing from the previous relationship. Yes. So that is kind of interesting. So I've learned all of my past relationships literally in my entire life have had a lot of chemistry and have been like super entertaining and fun. And like they're just like really smart people. We have a lot to talk about. Yeah. But I just didn't feel that stability element. Like maybe it's because we were never like super serious in terms of like we're going to get married. Like I feel like none of my relationships ever got to like obviously the engagement conversation. And so maybe it didn't need that stability. element um but yeah all my relationships were very like fulfilling in the mind but not really the heart i don't know damn you like that yeah it's just funny because you didn't mean to but you really ripped this guy no i'm just kidding you said a lot of very kind things about him yeah i think okay

for me i don't have like as structured an answer as you do oh sorry you have you have a haven't done 50 hours of therapy to dig into what the hell is wrong with you? I have done thousands of hours of therapy, but I still have not come up with a formula. Maybe I can think about it that way. It's an interesting exercise, I think, for all of us to be like, oh, if I had to come up with a formula, what would it be? Or like, it's a good thing to react to for everyone. Because like seeing your formula, then that's what will make everyone else, including me, like, think to be like, okay, how much do I agree with like all of your components yeah which ones don't I agree with or it's a good starting point also feel free to disagree I'm yeah for someone in the comments to be like ick a formula you can't

put a formula on love love is natural and I'm like bitch I try the natural way it's not working well I mean also I'd be very interested to know what your guy's formula is yeah you know like I'm it's not like we're like experts in love and relationship but we're happy to share all the things that we've and like how we've processed it and like how shri is approaching it in the future. So anything you want to share, we're very open to hearing it. Yes. And as you know, Gene and I read every single comment. And please keep encouraging her to be vulnerable and to open up.

And we see all the people who are thirsting after her actually in the comment. So keep it going. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Okay. So what are my learnings? I think so one, I'm coming at it from.

I'm seven years older than Shuri. So just by definition, I have had more experience. And I've also had a very long relationship of eight years that ended last year. So I think that's also like the main differentiating factor between like our history is that I've had that like super long relationship, you know, went through everything like got engaged, like thought that was the person that was going to be my like forever life partner for a. long, like thought that for a long time, quite a long time actually. And I think like, I don't know if this is going to come across sounding really, really, really basic. But I think my main learning from that was that it kind of all goes back to your values and what your own values are, understanding the values of the other person and then understanding what the combination of those two are and how that

plays out in a life together and like all of the sort of like major life milestones and circumstances you may face. So that's kind of like the broad strokes of it. And it's not just that. It's not just like understanding your own values, but I think like really taking the the time and like an annoying like effort to sort of like interrogate that and like interrogate yourself really like interrogate yourself interrogate that person and then like interrogate that combination and like really like hold it up to the light and like cross-examination and be like stress test it. Yeah. Like yes.

Yes. Like, does this really make sense? Because I think it's so easy. Like, for me, I would consider myself to be a lover girl. Like, I... Romantic? Yeah. I'm, like, very romantic.

Like, I think it doesn't, like, present that way necessarily, especially on this podcast because I... Because this podcast is mostly about, like, professional stuff. Yeah. But I am, like, deeply romantic. And I feel like I don't know that about you. Yeah. Because, like, I feel like also, like, within our relationship, I'm more of the big sister.

Yeah. So, like, I don't tell you everything, but you tell me everything. Okay. I'll just get up and leave now. Excuse myself. Well, it's just like you haven't known me my whole life, but I've known you, your whole life. Oh. Just keep punching me while I'm down.

I got it. So, um, so, okay. So what I'm trying to get at is, what am I trying to say? Is that I thought that like being deeply in love with someone and vice versa and also like being best friends and like building up your life together was the formula. Like I thought that that was all that it took. But I think that like having those sort of stress tests and like having those. like interrogation of the values early on as early as possible would have like really served me better.

I think a lot of it, I think it's having those conversations and also seeing it play out in actions as well. I think I am very gullible, which is why I've fallen for the juice, as I say, and the chemistry in the past. Like I think she's trying to make juice happen. It's juicy. Once again. I mean, it's just, you know, when you kind of are like intoxicated and someone's like fun and

their banter and their wit, it's just like feels like high school. And I think I'm very gullible and I get pulled into that. Having a stability arm like screech. I was like, you might be a very good talker and you might be very like charming. But like I need to see action behind your words. Like after we've interrogated each other on like, oh, you say this is important to you. Show me. Yeah.

Yeah. Is this okay if I bring up the book? Sure. It's related. Okay. Okay. And so there's a book. So a person that I'm dating gifted me this book.

It's called eight dates. And it's like eight dates to go on or eight date conversations to have. I've only gone on like a couple dates with this person. So getting a book is kind of. Is this him giving you his? formula. Oh, maybe, but it's a whole book. It's a whole ass book. This is a lot of work. Yeah. It's a little bit like homework, but it's interesting because I just started reading this book and there's all these different chapters. I see there's something written on the first page. There's a message for her.

Just kidding. You can't see it. It's a personal message from this person that I've seen. Can I see it later? Yeah, I'll show it to you. Sister to sister privilege. Sorry guys. But you know, out is like he wrote me a personal message but these are to your point about interrogating a person the whole philosophy about this book is that there are eight dates eight conversation topics you should have and it's whether you're in a relationship now or like married like for all stages like these are things you should talk about to set you know ground understanding and also come together reignite whatever but here are the different dates and if things come up that you disagree with there's like a manual of how you're supposed to talk about it actually.

So the first one is how you guys think about trust and commitment. The second is how you guys address conflict. The third is on sex and intimacy. But how are these dates? They're like topics to talk about on each date. Exactly. Oh my gosh. Yes.

And the fourth is the cost of love, work and money, how you guys think about that. Date five is family. Date six is fun and adventure. Date seven is growth and spirituality. and date eight is about your dreams together. And so like you're supposed to, I mean, in the beginning, in the prolog, it's just like, this is how you're supposed to have a date. It doesn't have to be an expensive dinner or date or anything. It could be a walk in the park, but both be intentional and set time aside to talk about these things.

And it like literally gives you. This is some real Stanford GSP shit here. Why? I mean, it's, what does that mean? It's good if you're on the same. same page. I could imagine if you were another person, a different person, and this person gave you this book on date for whatever number of dates you've been on, like sub five, like I could see someone being like freaked out. Yeah. And like totally making fun of this person. Like can you imagine

that like some of your girlfriends being like, um, you gave me a book. Like WTF like he gave you. This is this is like basically a couple's counseling book. It is. It is a couple's counseling. These are not real. They're just using the word date as like a marketing slash like a mechanism. But this is like truly like couples counseling. This is very advanced. Unfortunately, it's worked on me. The book. I mean, I like this. The book tact. Well, the book is well, because I'm all about like self growth and learning. I'm like, yeah. It is interesting. It is interesting. It is interesting. And what it tells me is that this person, is very intentional about dating you. Yeah.

They're like, let's skip straight to the premarital counseling. Oh my God. This person is, he's interrogating straight away. You're right. Oh, my God. And I didn't even realize it. I didn't even think of that. But this is what he's doing.

Yeah. He's like initiating the mutual and self interrogation. Yeah. Right off the bat. Are you scared for me? No. I think you kind of like this shit. Yeah, I do.

This is very, you know, touchy-feely coded. Yes. And actually this person, which is the Stanford Graduate School of Business class that is like famous. Yeah. Where people who are students like learn how to talk about interpersonal dynamics and relationships. And like if I'm having a problem, how do I express it to you? How do I make sure that you feel heard? All this stuff.

It's their most famous class. Yes. And I think I see how it's affected you. Really? Yeah. Wait, did I ever tell you that? So one of my ex-boyfriends went to Stanford GSB and he told me this was like back in like 2012 or 13. He like sent me notes from this class and was like, this class changed my life.

Wow. He was like, you would love this class. Like it changed my life full stop. Yeah. And that was why I wanted to go to GSP. We'll see how that turned out. She was rejected from GSP, but I went and she got to live vicariously through my T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T. She was rejected from Goldman Sachs twice.

She was rejected from Goldman Sachs twice. And she was rejected from Stanford School of Business Ones. But look at her now. Look at her now. Yeah. But you know what? I might go back and be a lecturer. Yeah.

Be a professor. Yeah. one of my good friends is now a lecturer there. Yeah, which is so cool. She teaches a class at the GSP. It'd be fun. It'd be fun to co-teach a class. Me and you.

Whoa. Tiger Sisters Takes. Yeah. Academia. That could be cool. Really fun. That could be cool. It would just be this.

It would literally just be this. It would just sit at the front and shoot the shit. Hey kids, you want to know about dating? Formula. You little rascals. Although honestly, they would be like into that as a class. Yeah. If you wanted to, I bet if you like proposed a class that included elements of like relationship and dating and long term, like they'd be into that. I mean, it's funny that a lot of the classes that I've actually taken at Stanford were so based around like life planning.

Yeah. They have many classes there. It's not even a joke. We didn't have that at all at HBS. We have life planning. Like what happens. And I mean, you know, there's also part of life planning is also like the accounting and finance part of it. there's like, oh, how do you create a trust for your family? Like that stuff as well. That's amazing.

Yeah. I wish we had that. Yeah. We did do an exercise where we wrote a 10-year letter to ourselves that I will open in like two years. But this past weekend, like one of my girlfriends in Sonoma brought up, she was like, God, this like 10-year letter, she's like, I'm just going to, I know I'm just going to like rip myself apart when I open it. Because, well, in like a joking way. Yeah.

but she was like, it probably says like, you're a billionaire who has like exited five companies. And like you live on the shore of, you know, like the, the Florida Bamas shore with your like seven children. Like she was just kind of like. Starry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. main thing that she's noticed about the students is that they are so starry-eyed and optimistic.

And she's like, I love that. But also, like, that's what we were like. Yeah, she was like, life's going to come at you fast. I was watching our previous dating episode in preparation for this one. And something that you said was that you were hoping to meet someone like organically, like natural in real life. And you weren't using the dating apps. How has that changed?

Well, I do still hope to meet someone naturally or I kind of just think that that's what's in the cards for me. But one of the sort of like New Year's resolutions I'd given myself, well, as you guys may remember, I make like every year like a list of goals that I have and they can be like some really small goals or some are stretch goals. And it's called like the list is usually called like, you know, 35 things to do all 35 or whatever. but then I actually write like 70 things. So then if I achieve half of them, then it's 100%. Just a little bit of insight, just a little insight into how my mind works. It's sick in there. But one of the ones was I was like, okay, I am going to be on a dating app.

I'm going to download a dating app, make a profile, and just like be there. because I think that like even if the you're even if you don't ultimately meet someone on a dating app, I think it's about like kind of like getting into the groove of dating again. And so downloaded Hinge. So that's where I've started. And I just feel like it's like it's a mixed bag. Yeah. Okay.

So one thing I'll say. So first of all, I haven't been on Hinge. like 10 years. And the premise is totally changed. Hinge used to be, it was called Hinge because you were connected with people who you had friends of friends in common with. That was the whole premise behind the entire app and the whole name. And like why it was useful. Yes. Because it was through a connection you had. Anyway, that's totally out the door. So it's like basically. No unintended. Yeah. The hinge is gone. Yes. The door, it's off the rails. There's no, there's zero hinge. It's nonhinged.

It's unhinged. It's unhinged. God, that's good. That's the other name for our podcast. Well, just for the dating episodes. Yeah, true. It's basically the equivalent of like what Tinder was 10 years ago. And like everyone 10 years ago was like Tinder's the crazy app where you could be connected with anybody.

And that's what hinge is now. It's the same thing. That's true. Remember? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're the vibe is different. People say Tinder is for hooking up.

I don't think hinge is really for hooking up. I guess not. I don't know. But like what it feels like to me using Hinge is this is what I told my girlfriends. It's as if you were to like walk into the middle of Times Square in New York City, stand there and then talk to every single man or woman, but whatever your flavor crossed your path. And then like consider them as an eligible romantic prospect. Well, if you pay for Hinge, you can also put in filters, though. The filters are not filtering.

Filter enough. There's not enough parameters. Oh, really? Yeah. What would you add? Well, there's the friend element. Oh, there's just like... A mutual connection.

Yeah. So I think that doesn't work in their favor because then it like shrinks the people that they can show you. But, I mean, it doesn't work in their favor because they want to keep you on the app. Right. But it would work in the favor of the customer. because then you can have like a better set for of consideration. I mean like let's be real like the incentives of the people that run the app are to keep you on the app. Yeah.

They don't they don't want you to find love. They say they do, but they don't want to. That's what people say. I'm laughing because as I say this, my like, my like old coworkers like actually run match group and hinge. Well, if you're listening, we have some feedback. But actually, that's what people say, not to bring the professional element in here, but this really famous investor named Andrew Chen from A16Z, he says he will never invest in dating apps because the model is completely messed up

where like the outcomes of the customers, the positive outcomes, lead to less time spent on the app. So he will never invest in a dating company. Yeah. Not to bring in the professional. know answer this dating episode she had to talk about an investor i had to talk about a 16s what is this threads because this twitter um okay so that's how the apps like feel like to me but i think it's still a good and healthy exercise for me to start to do um and i'm going to just kind of like take it as it is

yeah do you think you're going to look in other cities because i know hinge you can set your destination in other places. Because I think LA is a little bit tough, quite honestly, because it is more like entertainment, like bend to the industry. Like everyone works in entertainment, talks about a certain thing, works in entertainment. Yeah. Singer-songwriter. Well, when I went to Sonoma this weekend, I did like set the, change the setting,

like just for shits and giggles to like pack heights. And like the app is like, there's like 100. of like hearts now like I can't even go through them like I can't she has a she's a backlog guys so if you've had your gene recently don't take it personally if she doesn't get to you yet no but I just it actually is I should probably take some sort of learning from this but like it's shocking how or maybe because I like made the parameters wider I don't know but it does bring to question some sort of like product market fit questions I mean with you Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I'm the product. Yes. No, I think, I mean, SF is a different type of person for sure. Yeah. I mean, just historically, San Francisco and New York City are much more professional cities. Yeah. San Francisco, like, even by far.

Because like what else is the city known for aside from basically like tech, people who work in tech? Because in New York City, there's a lot of like artists still. There's a lot of like people who work in fashion. Well, that's professional. But I see your point. Yeah. Yeah. Versus like it on top of the base that is financed.

True. But in San Francisco, I think it's like the base is tech. And like I don't know what else you would say. It's like sprinkled on top of that. Also the ratio works in the favor of women in San Francisco. Whereas I've heard in New York, there's way more women than men. I don't know. I was doing fun in New York.

Yeah, 15 years ago. I enjoyed New York. Yeah, 22-year-old Jean enjoyed New York. So should I wrap up? Yeah. What are your finishing thoughts? Sorry, I didn't mean this high so dramatically. That was not planned.

But I guess that's kind of how I feel, where it's a mix of feeling hopeful and really excited about the future. Yeah. Because, like, there's nothing like being in, I don't know, the beginning stages of what could be love. Like, I think that what a beautiful time. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. One of the things I said to my girlfriends this weekend, who is also sort of, like, newishly single, is that, like, what is exciting is that we get to, like, go through that experience again of falling in love. and like all of the like everything that comes with it and it's like I guess I never thought I was

going to experience that again and it is a really like it's the spice alive it's so beautiful it's the it's the it's the everything it's like the feeling it's the juice of life look who's in juice now it's the I'm trying to help her out it's the juice of it's what makes life juicy yeah you know what a fun feel. It's not even fun. It is fun. It's just like beautiful. It's exhilarating. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the arc of like hope and like everything and like projecting forward and before the interrogation. Before you interrogation. Okay. Well, I told you guys, see I, this is how you can, this is how you know I'm a romantic. Right. Because these are like the things that like I think of and I'm like excited about. Yeah. But you know, balance it with some interrogation, self-interrogation. A little

mutual interrogation in there. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel hopeful for all of that stuff. And at the same time, not to be a downer, but like sometimes, I mean, as you can tell, like feeling a little hopeless. And I don't think that's a bad thing. Like I mean, of course, I have the existential dread that I'm like, oh my God, maybe

I'll be single forever or like a very long time. And that like sits with me, you know, like I would be lying if I said it wasn't there. But then at the end of the day, I guess I don't feel that bad. Like I think maybe deep down I'm like quite sad about that thought, but like if I were alone for the rest of my life, like I have a lot of fun with myself. I don't know. Like I love so many different activities and things that I do. I really enjoy life. I enjoy like food. Like would it be that bad to be with myself? No. Like I've already done all the work to be by myself. And I love my alone time. And that doesn't mean like I want to be alone forever. But like. And she's a really good cook. I can survive. You would eat well. Yes, I'm 40 fruits and veggies every week. But so I don't know.

It's kind of balancing both. And if you guys feel similarly, please let me know because it can feel a bit lonely. But I don't know. It's a mix. And I think maybe that's what the juice of life is. It's like being able to hold both at the same time, being hopeful and also hopeless. Oh, I thought you were saying like having your like independence and all the things that make you you and being happy, but then also being able to combine that with someone else is.

It's probably both too, yeah. I think maybe that's what like life is about. It's about holding both at the same time. Yeah. What both is is up to your interpretation. Both that and both of this. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. I just remember there's like so many other topics that we didn't get to today. We should totally do a second topic because I think that there's a lot more sort of like practical advice or like step that we can talk about like I didn't even I meant to talk about but I didn't even get to talking about like egg freezing I think I was just thinking about that yeah I think we should do an entire episode on like what is egg freezing should you egg freeze should you freeze your eggs practical steps one of my biggest regrets oh it's not too late but it's one of my biggest regrets because I don't have corporate funding from yeah um

Well, I've heard different advice on that. So we can tackle that next time. And maybe I can let you know why you don't need to be regretful. Oh, thanks. But I won't tell you until the next episode. So sit with that. So stay tuned. We have a lot more to discuss.

And if you guys have any ideas or thoughts or comments, please leave them below. And maybe we'll incorporate them into next episodes, mail that. Yeah. Please stay tuned for the rest of season three of Tiger Sisters. we have some incredible interviews with our guests and Gene and I do takeaways and learnings with those episodes. And we're so good. So good.

So good. So good. Yeah. And open to any other topics that you have. Okay. Thank you guys so much for being here. As always, please like, comment and subscribe and rate us five stars. We have a review.

We love to hear from you guys. And until next time. Bye. Bye.