Tiger Sisters - Did We Waste $500K on MBAs? Our Honest Take. EP 6

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi everyone. Welcome to this episode of the Tigris Sisters. In this episode, we're going to be talking about how we've spent half a million dollars in total on our education, getting our MBAs. Was it worth it? So we've gotten a lot of questions about this topic, actually, multiple mailback entries. So I'll start with reading just one of them. Vennode asked, as someone who hasn't been to a business school for an MBA, I'm curious to know, what are some things that change for you as a person before and after MBA, personally? for you both. This is something I think we'll dive into a little bit more, but just to tee it up, was business school worth it for me? Business school was a very, like, meaningful life experience. And just like when I've talked on the phone with some of my, like, best friends who didn't

Starting point is 00:00:45 go to business school with me, they're like, wow, I can really hear in your voice, like, how grounded you are. You just sound so different before business school and after business school. And like, I can feel it in myself a little bit, but I think just getting a third party to be able to say that. Like I talked to one of my best friends before business school and we hadn't spoken in a long time and she's like, oh my God, I can kind of tell in this conversation. You just like sound way more confident, way more self-assured. I'm just like way more confident in who you are and what you want to do. And I was like, yeah, I feel very aligned coming out of business school now,

Starting point is 00:01:19 having done that reflection and spent the time like figuring out what I want to do, what's important to me. I know I'm not alone in this. I've also talked to other classmates of mine. who, when they talk to their, like, former bosses, their bosses are just like, wow, you sound different. And is that because of the classes? Is that because of the people you meet? Like, is it because of what you're learning? Like, why specifically do you think that is? I think it's a mix of all of those things.

Starting point is 00:01:47 It was just, like, the life experience of two years. Like, I feel way more confident now that I've taken those classes, like, the wide variety of, like, finance, like, econ, entertainment, accounting. That's true. Like, I have such a wider breath of knowledge and topic areas that I can speak to. Like, I just feel more confident and knowledgeable as a person. And I feel very grounded. At GSB, there is so much emphasis on, like, who are you and what do you care about? And how do you want to leave your impression in this world so that I spent two years basically, like, figuring that out so that I could, you know, once I was released in June, go forth and do.

Starting point is 00:02:28 Yeah, I think what a lot of people say about business school or like a common phrase is they say that you learn enough to be dangerous in every field. Right. So that's like something where I think about like accounting. Am I ever going to be an accountant? No. Am I ever going to myself like apply the skills of accounting like pen to paper? Hopefully not. But I do feel like because I took accounting in business school, I know enough to. to know if something is going to be like totally off. I know if something's going to be totally wrong. And I think it's true for just like a lot of fields. Like for you, I know you would never, for example, like you took a real estate class, right? That was very eye-opening for you because you had never had any sort of exposure to real estate at all.

Starting point is 00:03:21 It was real estate investing, talking about commercial real estate. Right. And your only investing experience was in venture capital. which is super early stage and usually, you know, like pixels, like a lot of it is zeros and ones as opposed to like hard assets, which is like commercial real estate is like the total opposite of that. Complete 180 and it was fascinating because commercial real estate or I just real estate in it of itself is just like a vertical that's so different from any other type of investing. And like the vocabulary used like how you go about a deal, how people make money from real estate. It's just so different from like software, which I've been, you know, in the world of for over five years. Exactly. And I think you touched on a really good point there. You literally just said the word the vocabulary used.

Starting point is 00:04:09 Because like think about it. If you know the vocabulary of a certain field or an industry, like you're already light years ahead of someone who has never like been exposed to it. Yeah, never been exposed to it. So that way like let's say Cherie goes to, you know, she has a meeting where somehow like, somehow like real estate is a relevant topic or like let's say we're building our company and we end up wanting to do something with like a commercial footprint like that's already somewhere where like you're going to go into that meeting knowing the terms right like what are some of the terms that people would say totally or like for example let's say jean and i open up like a cafe or something and it's like let's say we open up a retail spot let's say we open up a retail spot like a retail spot like a a cafe, that would be like an amazing, like, dream of mine.

Starting point is 00:05:01 But, like, what do you need to ask? And, like, who are your competitors? And, like, for example, if our cafe were, like, within a mall versus within, like, a strip mall, like, or, you know, on just, like, a really busy street, what are the different things to consider? Like, what is the, is it near a hotel? Like, is there a lot of foot traffic there? Right.

Starting point is 00:05:21 What are the vacancy rates? Like, is this a happening spot? How close is the airport? Like, whoa. All this stuff that I've never even thought about. And that's not to say that we wouldn't work with like a, you know, commercial real estate lawyer or like an Asian or someone who's an actual like expert who does it day and day out. But once again, like we know enough to be dangerous. Like we go into those conversations having some base level of understanding and feeling, I guess, unafraid.

Starting point is 00:05:48 Unafraid, well equipped. And like just knowing what are the right things to ask so that like if there are people who we're working with who are like trying to pull on over us or like. I don't know, take advantage because like, I don't know, whatever. Like, yeah, no. Because we look weak. No, I'm kidding. And then on the flip side, you also took some classes such as like stand-up, right? Didn't you take improv?

Starting point is 00:06:14 You took an improv class. Yes, I took a theater class at Stanford. It was incredible. It was called The Spirit of Play. And it was all about how do you bring play and playfulness back into the everyday? How do you bring it into work and to teams? And how does that make them more productive? Like, I've never taken a series of improv classes like this before.

Starting point is 00:06:36 And one, it was very fun. Two, it was just like a way to broaden my horizons and also my skill set in a way that I wouldn't have done otherwise. Yeah. And one thing I really admire about you is I think you're an incredible public speaker. And, like, you can just, like, speak on anything, like, off the cuff. Extemporaneously. Extemporaneously. So like is this something that you think, did this improv class like help you or it gave you an opportunity to like practice it more? Like I know you did the class before your TED talk. Yeah. Your TED talk was amazing. Oh, the TED talk was so unlike anything I've ever done in my life. I was so incredibly hard. But I just imagine that the fact that you did this improv class before it, like it must have helped. Yes. I think so more subconsciously than like a one-to-one link. But the improv class. We just played games every single class. And honestly, it was a way for me to do cringe

Starting point is 00:07:32 things and then not feel cringe about it. Like the class, the games were so silly. They'd be like, I need that. They'd be like, you know, you would just do weird things with your body and like, we'd play it with different scenes and like kind of act, play act with each other. But it was, it was just a way for me to get more comfortable with my body in space. Yeah. And like using the space around me. Whereas, like, I didn't realize how uncomfortable I felt before then, like, with my body. Yeah. If that makes sense.

Starting point is 00:08:04 Yes. I feel like one way I would summarize what you've said and what you've told me before is that for you, like, business school was just a way to really, like, expand your horizons and, like, fill in the gaps of all the different areas where you thought you could sort of, like, up-level your knowledge, right? Because, like, you had a very specific knowledge base going in. you had been a product manager at LinkedIn for a long time. So, like, that was your expertise.

Starting point is 00:08:29 You were an amazing, like, really high-performing product manager, and you briefly worked in VC investing. Yeah. But you were, like, these are all the other areas. I guess people say, like, I want more tools for my tool belt or something like that. Yeah, I, that's a really good way to summarize it. I would say also that, like, business school, like, because I was so intentional going in about it, I was like, these are the places where I feel that I could really work on.

Starting point is 00:08:55 really grow. What were they? One example. Just like this is not even like an interest area or an academic area. It's like socially. Like I wanted to grow socially and I wanted to go. What does that mean? I applied after the pandemic and I was really sad during the pandemic because I was living with my mom for a year, which was an amazing experience, but I didn't meet anyone new and I felt really lonely, really sad. That's why she was making so many TikToks and videos online. I was like, these are my friends, my online friends. Well, so I just felt super. She's like, mom, I'm talking. talking to my internet friends. I'm talking to my friends, mom. So, yes. So, like, the gaps that I had in my life, interest area based, socially, meeting professors, like, I don't know how I quite

Starting point is 00:09:38 quantify that, but I identified there were gaps in my life. And it felt like business school could fill in those gaps and, like, add to my tool belt in that way. Yeah, that is one thing that I do think business school is very different from other grad schools, is that there is a very intentional aspect of going in to meet new people, of going in to learn from your classmates, learn from your professors, build out like this sort of new community, and really grow from that. The reason why it's different is because everybody recognizes that going in. Everyone going in knows that that's such a valuable part of your business school experience. It's a social aspect.

Starting point is 00:10:17 Yeah, that everyone's really like bought into it. As opposed to when I was attending HBS, one of my best friends was at Harvard Law. law school at the same time. And then one of my other best friends was at the Harvard Ed School at the same time. And like the three of us just had like such different experiences. Other grad schools are often much more like academically oriented. Totally. Well, I mean, there's a reason my people joke that like business school students are partying all the time. It's like, yeah, we're hanging out with each other. And it's very normal and expected that like every night of the week, you're not eating dinner alone. You're like,

Starting point is 00:10:54 supposed to eat dinner with someone else and hang out with other people, whereas just like it's the personnel. It's the type of people it attracts. It's also the vibe. But like if you're going into like a PhD program, for example, like it's very academic. It's like very research focused and like it doesn't emphasize the social as much. So it's just different vibes. I mean to that point though, I ate many dinners alone because I felt like after an entire day of socializing.

Starting point is 00:11:24 and I knew that I would have a whole evening of socializing. I needed some time to myself. So I do think if you're thinking about business school, it's a good area of self-reflection. Yeah. I mean, this is a whole other topic. Like, how can you survive business school if you want to go, but you're also an introvert?

Starting point is 00:11:43 And you totally can. I have so many friends who are actually introverts and then figure out ways that they can balance their emotional capacity and their like mental capacity to be as social as possible. For me, going into business school, I had a very specific plan. So the reason that I went to business school is because I had always wanted to start a company of my own. And also just to preface this, I graduated from business school seven years ago. So that means I applied over 10 years ago.

Starting point is 00:12:13 So 10 years ago, I was like, I want to start a company. And I just didn't really have like the chutzpah or the balls to just quit my job at the time and just do it. on my own, that felt way too scary for me. And at the same time, my GMAT score was expiring because I took my GMAT when I was a senior in undergrad. So it was five years after that. I had five years of work experience. And it was the last year I could use my GMAT score.

Starting point is 00:12:41 So I was like, you know what, I am just going to apply. I'll see if I get in. And because I really don't want to take the GMAT again. And I had always wanted to go to some grad school of some sort. And so then after I got in, it kind of just like, I was able to sort of form my plan from there because I was like, if I go to business school, it basically gives me these two risk-free years where I can actually just work on my startup on the side. I knew that Harvard in general had a very strong focus on entrepreneurship and it was very

Starting point is 00:13:15 much, I think, a reaction to the strength of Stanford's entrepreneur program. They had this area called the Harvard Innovation Lab and they were really investing. in that. So I was like, I'm going to go, I'm going to build my startup at school. If it all goes to plan, then I'm going to work on it full time over the summer. I'm going to get customers. I'm going to fundraise right as I graduate. And then I'll be off to the races. And then the downside case would be, let's say I decide this is not for me. Then I can just graduate and I'll have an HBS degree. Yeah. That was my intention going in. So for me, it was very much worth it because I did follow that path. I worked on the startup a lot during the first year.

Starting point is 00:13:56 So other parts of my experience did suffer. For example, like the social aspects or, you know, I didn't invest in classes as much as I could have. But that was intentional. That whole experience helped me realize that, you know what, I actually am very excited about starting a company. But this is not the right company for me. Like this thing that I've been working on for the last year and a half is not going to be what I'm spending the next, you know, five, seven, ten years on. but I've had this experience of entrepreneurship. I've had this experience of working on my own company full time.

Starting point is 00:14:31 Yeah. And I know kind of what are some things that I need to work on and what I'm looking for for the next time that I do this. Yeah. So for you, business school was worth it because you were able to try something completely new that you wouldn't have done otherwise and like see if it's something that you wanted to continue

Starting point is 00:14:49 and ultimately you didn't. But like you were smarter for it and you have another thing in your tool belt. Yes, and I was able to do it in this very kind of supportive atmosphere where there are a lot of different programs at HBS and many other business schools that are designed to help you build a company while you're at business school. Yeah. I mean, also like you're a part of, I guess like a program where it was like a cohort experience so that like while you're building your startup, you could also be with other people who are building as well. Exactly. And so, like, I feel like there are other places, like other incubator programs that happen outside of business school now, like Y Combinator, South Park Commons.

Starting point is 00:15:29 It's amazing that, like, you can do that as well while you're a student. I would say for me, that's my personal experience. Like, that was why I decided to go. That was a very intentional sort of, like, hypothesis of mine that I wanted to explore and try to see what the results were. Do you think it was worth $250,000? Oh, and also don't forget the opportunity costs. of the money that we were making at the time. Yeah, I don't like to think about it that way.

Starting point is 00:15:56 It's just depressing. Yeah, it's worth it. I think if you believe in yourself, then you will be able to recoup that money and make it in the future. Yeah. Your life is long. Your career can be very long,

Starting point is 00:16:08 but being in an environment where your only job is to learn is so special. And like you get to do that so few times in your life. So like anyone who, you know, A lot of people ask me, like people who are like, oh, should I do, you know, business school? I almost always say yes. Yeah, that could be another interesting topic next time.

Starting point is 00:16:31 Like, who shouldn't do business school? That wraps up our episode. Thank you guys for being here. This is a new format we're trying where we're trying to do a really short and sweet episode. This time we didn't have any of our segments, but don't worry, they're not gone. I know you guys like roses and thorns. It's coming back. If you guys like this episode, please remember to.

Starting point is 00:16:51 like, comment, and subscribe. And we'd so appreciate it if you could share this episode with someone who might find it helpful. Thanks. Bye. Maybe we'll save you half a million dollars. I've had so many people, especially my former coworkers, come to me and be like, was it worth it? I'm like, yeah, I built some confidence.

Starting point is 00:17:21 And they're like, oh, confidence? Yeah, they're like, that doesn't sound like it's worth half a million dollars. Yeah. They're like a quarter million dollars for confidence. I don't think so.

Tiger Sisters - Did We Waste $500K on MBAs? Our Honest Take. EP 6

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