Tiger Sisters - Grinding is overrated: the richest people never retire

Starting point is 00:00:00 I'm 35 now. What advice would you give to your 35-year-old self? Figure out a way in life to pause. Find your pause. Find your thing that allows you to step away. Find a new way of looking at whatever the situation is, business, personal, etc. If you pick your habits that are personal to you, I think you design a life of N of 1, your life. I think you'll find more successive life. The more that we let habits come in from somebody else, the less happy we are. What is your favorite city to travel to? Is it Aspen or the Hamptons? Br.

Starting point is 00:00:33 I love both. I love Surf Lodge and Montauk. I love the Snow Lodge and Aspen. I actually like going to Tokyo, Japan. Who is the crazy successful but also low-key serial entrepreneur who sold his startup for $850 million to Oracle and has invested in over 100 startups himself? Today, we talk to Jonah Goodhart.

Starting point is 00:01:08 And side note, he's also the co-cincter. owner of one of the hottest spots in the Hamptons, the Surf Lodge. Where are your co-hosts? I'm Sherey. I'm Gene. And we're the Tiger Sisters. In this season of Tiger Sisters, we interview the most amazing set of founders, CEOs, and business leaders. First, we talked to Jonah in an interview, and then right after that, Shere and I talk about all of our takeaways from the interview in kind of like a business school, case study method way. We'll get to the interview right after this break. Hey guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on sisters matcha.com.

Starting point is 00:01:44 We have sweatshirts and t-shirts that we designed yourselves. Go check it out. And please rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. These ratings are so important for the distribution and survival of Tiger Sisters Podcast. Thank you for your support. Jonah, why don't you start with introducing yourself? So I'm Jonah Goodhart. I am the co-founder of a company called Mobian. We're building an AI-powered contextual classification.

Starting point is 00:02:09 engine. So said really simply, we want to build a new way to look at the content on the internet by leveraging AI. Okay, Jonah, I'm 35 now. What advice would you give to your 35-year-old self? The advice I would give to my 35-year-old self is figure out a way in life to pause. The idea, I think, of pausing is incredibly impactful. And by pause, that can mean taking a break that can mean stopping what you're doing. In the religious world, maybe it was on a certain day we don't do things. And if you sort of step back from that, it's essentially taking a pause. It's stopping. It's not being a part of it. In some ways, it's the only way to get out of some of these cycles that we're in as society is just to say, I'm going to pause and not be a participant

Starting point is 00:03:01 in that for some period of time. And so what I would say is find your pause, find your thing that allows you to step away and find a new way of looking at whatever the situation is, business, personal, et cetera, take a pause. Yeah. Oh, I fully subscribe to that because I think my generation, like millennials, a lot of people are discovering sabbaticals for the first time, especially a lot of people who are like in their 30s and haven't taken time off for like, you know, life milestones. It's just like taking like a month off or, you know, your wedding and honeymoon or taking

Starting point is 00:03:36 maternity and maternity leave. Like people are now like baking in sabbaticals into their like overarching career plans. Totally. And I think it's also just on a daily basis, figuring out what do you do during the day that gets you to step out of it. Right. So there's these things where we feel like we have to take some action or we have to respond or we have to post something on social media or go back and forth. I think the only way out of that dynamic is to pause, is to disconnect, is to say I'm not going to be a part of whatever that thing is. And so I think figuring out what is it in your world that lets you pause on a daily basis, not be on email, not be on text, not beyond social media, not whatever the thing is that is pulling you in one direction or another, stop doing it for some period of time

Starting point is 00:04:20 as a daily habit. I'm a big believer in daily habits in that if you pick your habits that are personal to you, I think you design a life of and of one, your life. And if you pick your habits, that matter to you over time, I think you'll find more successive life. And I think that the more that we let habits come in from somebody else, the least, the less happy we are. Oh, love that. Okay. Jonah, what was your first job and how did that influence your career or like how you approach

Starting point is 00:04:53 work today? Yeah, my first job was working at Dairy Queen, painting a fence and picking up trash. Some huck Finn. I thought it was great. I loved it. I love the idea that I was independent that I could make some money, even though it wasn't much money, but the idea that I could do something and feel some sense of pride of being able to be independent. I think that the idea of working hard was instilled in me at a young age. And I think there's something really, really great about it. I think that we have this idea of so-called retiring and all of these different concepts that we sort of create as, society, it's great. You want to retire whatever that means to you. Wonderful, more power to you. But I think there's something that we've sort of missed. And I think the thing that we've missed is what my oldest brother calls the happiness quotient. And the idea of the happiness quotient is that

Starting point is 00:05:48 you see people who are 100 years old and they don't seem like they're the healthiest person. And they eat bad food and they're not exercising, they're not doing the things they're supposed to do. And yet they live to 100. And you see other people that are in incredible shape. And unfortunately they die early and the difference perhaps is not just whether they follow a healthy regimen difference perhaps my oldest brother would argue and i agree is something that we don't totally understand and that has to do with happiness and the the idea that if we're happy if we're living the life that we want to live that maybe that contributes to longevity i see people like warren buffett in business world or it was 93 i think charlie munger died at 99 and a half years old

Starting point is 00:06:32 growing up eating, you know, fast food and soda every day not working out, yet lived a lot longer than, and Warren Buffett's still living, than a lot of other people. I think the difference is they figured out happiness. They figured out what was happy for them, what they enjoyed doing, what drove them. And I think there's got to be some, some of the calculation has got to be that. It can't simply be that you have to eat perfectly and live this perfect healthy lifestyle because we see lots of examples of people that that do that and they're unhappy. And so I think it's trying to figure out how do you get to happiness for you? The happiness question. I like that. I'm going to start quoting you, quoting your brother. Okay. How about what failure in your life are you most

Starting point is 00:07:21 grateful for? And why? Well, I have had plenty of failures. One of the failures in my life in the in the business world was that we built a company my middle brother and I in college. And we were doing phenomenally well. We thought we were the top of the world that we had figured everything out. And we even got an offer to sell our company to Lycos at the time. And we turned them down. And we thought this company is never going to stop growing, crushing it. It's going to be incredible.

Starting point is 00:07:55 And within a year, the business had almost completely gone out of, business. And of course, the offer to sell the company was no longer there. Now, as it turns out, had we done that deal, we would not have ended up on the pack that we got on, which is we partnered with somebody else. We ended up helping create another company, which led to a third company that we were involved in. And had we not done that, we wouldn't have gone down the path to run today. And so I think you don't know, I think Steve Jobs actually said, you don't know how these things are going to connect in the future. And so you can't sort of judge it too much in the, in the moment. but at least if you have a belief that things happen for a reason,

Starting point is 00:08:33 and I am someone who believes that things happen for a reason. And so you don't know what that reason is going to be today, but keep a positive attitude as best you can and keep driving for happiness. Yeah, I'm the same. The older I get, the more I subscribe to that. But were you devastated at the time? Yeah, I mean, we were definitely seriously disappointed because it felt like it's worse to feel like,

Starting point is 00:08:59 you had something that you lost, right? If you didn't have it at all, if you didn't get to that point prior to that, we were a couple of kids on financial aid at, you know, college. So we didn't have anything. There was nothing we were concerned about. But at that time, we were given an opportunity for life-changing financial reward and et cetera. And we turned it down.

Starting point is 00:09:21 And so you feel like, oh, man, we really made a mistake. We really messed that up. Yeah. And you start sort of questioning everything. And I think that you don't know how that road is going to lead. So if I could go back and talk to my younger self, I would say, don't sweat it. Yeah. It all happens for a reason.

Starting point is 00:09:40 I love that. What's a hot take or like a contrarian belief that you have in your industry? Well, one of the things I've been in the digital advertising and advertising measurement industry for a while in digital advertising now for 26 years or so. And one of the things I think that I've learned is that advertising is just about people. And I think if you mention advertising to people, they go, ah, ads, everyone loves to hate ads, right? They think, ah, it's an ads thing. It's whatever.

Starting point is 00:10:14 Yet advertising, if you think about it, is storytelling. That's what advertising is. It's literally just a distribution for storytelling. And storytelling is the most foundational concept of humanity. That's how we communicate. It's how we've communicated over centuries. And so for me, I think there's a misunderstanding at some level of what ads are when done well, right? And in any industry, in any category, when not done well, nothing is good in that case.

Starting point is 00:10:45 But when done well, ads can be inspirational. They can be certainly informative, certainly fun. And it is truly a story. And stories can be heartfelt and meaningful and drive us. and help us be happy. You're really good at storytelling. That was really good. Okay, just two more.

Starting point is 00:11:08 What is something that you feel like is really valuable that you've gotten out of conference or like what were you looking forward to most from conference? Like either of those. The number one thing I get out of conference is just the interactions with the people. Imrod is such a force of nature and he brings together really not just people who have done something interesting in their lives

Starting point is 00:11:33 and all the people at those events have done something interesting, but they're people who are intellectually curious who want to learn, who want to talk, who are not just coming in and leaving as people do at some events. People are coming here for the purpose of interacting with the other people who are here. It's a small event, it's invite only. I'm honored that I've been able to attend Imron's conferences. since he started. And there's something special that he has curated here.

Starting point is 00:12:02 And it's a group of people who want to learn who are humble and who are willing to put themselves out there and learn something. And some of the people, you walk around and you go, wow, this person leads tens of billions of dollar public company, $50 billion public company, $100 billion public company. And yet they're walking around with everybody else. And not just there, but having conversations, engaging, wanting to learn from you and vice versa.

Starting point is 00:12:28 And so I think he curates just an incredible environment where people want to meet each other. And in the end of the day, I think business is about people, right? The thing that we misunderstand about AI, the hottest topic and certainly something that I believe, as probably most of us do watching this, that it will revolutionize the entire world. It absolutely will. but in the end of the day, AI is here to serve people. We don't go away in this whole AI equation. We may change some of the things we do, but in the end of the day, it's still, we're still

Starting point is 00:13:03 going to be there, we're still going to eat food, we're still going to interact with each other, we're still going to have dreams and visions and goals, and AI is going to be there to help support us as human beings. And so I think that the interesting thing is humans plus AI and how that that future works, but it is AI in service of people. What is your favorite city to travel to when you're taking a break? And is it Aspen or the Hamptons? My favorite city, actually, I don't know if I would say Aspen or the Hamptons,

Starting point is 00:13:36 although I love both. I love Surf Lodge and Montauk. I love the Snow Lodge and Aspen. But I actually like going to Tokyo, Japan. And the reason I like Tokyo is because it is so completely different from my world. It is, one, beautiful and imaginative and creative, but it is an environment in a society that cares about things in a really unique and special way. You won't see trash all over the place.

Starting point is 00:14:08 As an example, you will see people that take honor in what they're doing in their day-to-day lives. And you see just a incredible environment. A lot of people, a lot of business still, people transact, lots of things are still happening. It's a successful, very successful society and culture, but it's very different from other places. And so I think going to Tokyo and going to Japan in general is an opportunity to pause and really think differently. Certainly, I'm American. I was born here. And so being able to be somewhere that is totally different and look to things at totally different way is incredible and fun and inspirational. So I would say Tokyo for a city in Japan or the country. Oh, fantastic. We're going in November. Amazing. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's it.

Starting point is 00:14:57 Great job. Awesome. Oh, my gosh. What an interesting conversation with Jonah. Yeah. That was a really thoughtful guy. Super thoughtful. And I'm so excited to get into the takeaways. But before we do that, please remember to like, comment, and subscribe. We would so appreciate it if you could rate us five stars if you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. And we'll get right to the takeaways after this break. Hey everyone, quick break to share something special, Sisters Macha.

Starting point is 00:15:27 We've launched limited batches of ceremonial grade, single estate, single cultivar, matcha, straight from the family farm Shari worked on in Japan. It's pure, authentic, and crafted with intention. Head to SistersMacha.com to grab yours before it sells out. about McMacha, your daily ritual for lasting energy and focus. And we're back. Let's start with Shari.

Starting point is 00:15:47 What was your first takeaway? So something that I think the viewers and listeners will not see because it was off camera is that before this interview that we had with him, we literally sat down with Jonah for like an hour and no, like longer than an hour. I lost track of time. But like we sat down. We talked about our life stories. he's so interesting and so incredibly humble.

Starting point is 00:16:12 And he doesn't even mention it because like in this interview, he just doesn't say anything. He's literally sold one of his previous startups to Oracle for $850 million. Wait, I literally forgot that. Isn't that insane? I forgot that. Yes. What? And of course he doesn't mention it because like all these, I think, very super successful

Starting point is 00:16:32 people are just like incredibly humble. I don't like they don't hype themselves up so Gene and I need to hype them up. Yeah. He's also worked with his brother. He told us that he has like more than one brother. But he's like worked with like both of them in different capacities, which is so interesting because like I think it's special working with a family member. He's talked about that.

Starting point is 00:16:53 And also he is part co-owner of the surf lodge in Montauk. And then also a similar one, but a ski version in Aspen. He's just like so humble, so interesting. so smart and thoughtful, but like, yeah, he's kind of a Renaissance man. He really is. And he also, like, I don't know if this, like, comes across as much in the, like, interview setting, but in our conversation with him, like, I have to describe him as mesmerizing. Like, why else did we have, did we, like, end up talking to him for, like, an hour and a half?

Starting point is 00:17:28 Yeah. Like, learning his entire life story, like, telling us, telling him our life story. Like, he's just, he makes you feel special. Like he's one of those people. Like, you know how they always say that there's like people who like when you talk to them, all they focus on is you. Yes. That's like he. That might be his superpower.

Starting point is 00:17:46 I think so. Yeah. Which is why I think in this interview he made lots of eye contact. Yeah. With the audience. He's mesmerizing. He's mesmerizing. So I just wanted to put that in there because I definitely know that did not, was not mentioned in the interview.

Starting point is 00:18:00 So. Yeah, we like didn't talk about his accomplishments at all. We're so rude. we're like just tell us your advice yeah give us advice now yeah i really liked that jonah when we asked him about his first job he brought up working in dairy queen the biggest takeaway for me is that like no matter what you're doing no matter what your job is whether you're a kid or you're an adult like do it with pride every job is hard and you can always find pride in what you're doing and i think those people who are who are able to do that just like go away full

Starting point is 00:18:36 further, you know? Like, people can tell that you're, like, proud of what you're doing and proud of the craft. Yeah, like recognizing the value of work. Absolutely. Nobody works anymore. Nobody works anyone. If you're feeling, like, honestly with yourself that you're, like, not proud of what you're doing or you're not proud of your output, your deliverables with work, then, like, maybe you're not working in the optimal role or job that is, like, right for you at this right time. saying that some of the things he did was at Dairy Clean were like painting the fence, picking up the garbage. Like I don't think he was like, this is going to be my role forever and this is my like

Starting point is 00:19:17 dream role in life. But he was like, this is where I am now and I have pride in what I'm doing in my contributions. And he said also I think he said that it taught him basically just the value of hard work. Like it's not like a like a new concept. But I think having that early on in your life. and learning to kind of like also enjoy what you do is important because he also then related it to the idea of the happiness quotient and the idea that like so many people think of work as just something to like muddle through from nine to five from the ages of you know 18 to 67 or

Starting point is 00:19:59 whatever it is and then you finally get to retire he is very much of the mindset where he was like No, I think the happiness question is if you enjoy what you do, you never want to retire. You want to keep doing it. And he used the example of Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, where they were and still are investing well into their 90s and their legends at the craft. Yeah. And like that's kind of his like his role models. If you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life is what they say. But not to be trite.

Starting point is 00:20:36 Not to be trite, but like when I see professors at Stanford, especially the ones that are like pretty old, like objectively, like in their 70s, they have many decades of wisdom. Like I think of Glenn Kraman and Joel Peterson, Irv Grossbeck, who are in their 70s and also Irv Grossbeck, I think is 89. What? And still teaching at Stanford GSB. Legendary.

Starting point is 00:21:01 Legend. But that's like actually legendary. Well, also I had a coffee chat with him. He was kind enough to like, he wasn't even my professor. I didn't have a class with him. But he did a last lecture series with us. Oh, that really touched you. Yeah, I was like writing notes the entire time.

Starting point is 00:21:14 And then I asked him for coffee. We sat down. I told him my life story. And then I was just like, so what's next for you? Like in teaching in your journey. And he's like, he's like, well, I'm going to be teaching at Stanford until like I start drooling. I love that.

Starting point is 00:21:31 Yes. And I think to me that's awesome. Even then, why let drool stop you? Seriously. Gross Beck needs to widen his horizon. That's true. I think to me that is a model of happiness, I think. It keeps the brain going.

Starting point is 00:21:48 If you can keep working into your 70s and 80s, late 80s, that is a goal of mine, actually. If I love what I'm doing, I don't want to stop working. It's exciting to me. Yeah, because it's not really, I guess it's work, but you're kind of your building, you're creating, you're generating. Well, now they're empowering too and like bringing up the next generation. They feel like they have a hand. Yeah. And like, yeah. Curating, massaging the minds, you know, of young people. I've always thought that after I retire, whenever that is, I would become a professor. I've had this like sort of dream ever since I went to Dartmouth that I would then move to Dartmouth

Starting point is 00:22:31 buy a house on Akam Pond, which is the main pond. Or people go ice skating, right? Or people go ice skating. Yeah. And then be a professor at Dartmouth. You would want to live in Hanover? I don't know. You would fly in.

Starting point is 00:22:47 From Washington State. Yes, exactly. Long commute. Yeah, that was pretty long commute. Yeah, I think it'd be fun to be a professor. I also would want a role where I would have influence over young minds and also. She wants power.

Starting point is 00:23:08 No, it's more like guiding. Yeah, like I think guiding people, helping people learn. And also, like, I think it's really interesting, like what Imran said in our conversation with him, like having a pulse. Like that's true. And checking in with young people and knowing what's going on all the time. Like how exciting if I'm when I'm 80 and I can. have friends of different generations who are in their 20s and 30s.

Starting point is 00:23:34 Yeah. And they'll be like on like the hippest whatever. Like they're not even born yet. When I'm 80, like those people are not even born yet. Can you even imagine? They're minus 60. Or maybe they're born actually. They're born right now.

Starting point is 00:23:46 Okay. You know it would be really like a kind of like cool goal or North Star is for if you're like, my goal is to be the coolest 89 year old everyone knows. And then also for me to like still be friends with people of all. generations at any age. I think that's hard. My speculation is that I think that's hard to do. But if you can achieve it, like you will live a very rich life.

Starting point is 00:24:12 Very rich life. I can't, I mean, if you're 89 and like you don't have grandchildren and you're not like friends with, you know, people of that age, like, how do you even meet young people? Like, you guys are in different spheres. Like, you don't really come across one another ever. Yeah. Yeah. Socially.

Starting point is 00:24:28 Well, I mean, I figure, you know, a lot of my friends will be young because I'll be dating like a 25 year old AI, you know. Well, then will your friends just be AIs? The AI will, listen, in the future, the AI will have both AI and human friends. Okay. So it'll be a mix. Okay. And they'll be embodied AIs.

Starting point is 00:24:49 I don't know what you were going to say you're going to be dating a 25 year old AI. I thought you were just going to stop at saying you're dating a 25 year old. Which I was like, sure. Go eat more power to you. Mama. One takeaway that I really liked from Jonah, that. that seems simple but is hard to execute, he said, figure out a way to pause. And I feel like there's so many different ways you can interpret it.

Starting point is 00:25:12 Right. Because a pause can be any length. That's what he said when you asked him what his advice was to his younger self. Yeah. I was like, what's your advice for your 35 year old self? Yeah. He said, figure out a way to pause. And like initially, I had thought he met like the way I had interpreted it at first.

Starting point is 00:25:30 was I thought he meant like take a sabbatical. Yeah. Because I think like at 35, usually you've been sort of like grinding in your job and like rising through the ranks and like building up your career for like 20 or so years already. Wait, not 20. Like 15ish, something like that. But then he also meant it in a sort of like daily way. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:55 I took it as a more daily way. That was my interpretation of it. One of the examples that he said was he meant it in like a weekly way. He was like, oh, like, for example, you have the Sabbath. That was like the original intention of it is every Sunday God was like, put down your smartphone. He was like, put down your slave. Put down your stone slaves. Put down your hieroglyphics.

Starting point is 00:26:22 And just enjoy the people around you. Yeah. Like something like that. Like gather. And so I guess I actually like that it's kind of vague because there's so many different ways to apply it. Yeah. But all of them are true. That kind of makes me think about my schedule now.

Starting point is 00:26:41 You and I are working like every single day. Should we have a day of pause? Yeah. As God intended us to have. Like if we wanted to instate it. Yeah, a little bit more. And be more. intentional. Yeah. About it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We kind of do that on Sundays. Like when we had our

Starting point is 00:27:02 like groove, we had like our cardio dance class. We had a farmer's market. That was really nice. And of course we like built in work, but like I like that routine that we had. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be Sundays. Although I guess it's good because then it would coincide with like most other people. Right. When like stores are also closed sometimes or restaurants are closed early. You know, like people are trying to rest as well. Yeah, yeah. But I do think like you're very good at building it, at baking in a moment of pause, like on a daily basis. Yeah. Because you make the matra. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She makes it the matcha. I thought you're going to like give me a backhanded compliment. You're like, you're so good at resting. You're just so good at resting. You're so good at not doing anything. You're so brave in taking the time that you need every day to like not do anything. When I am just like working so hard like on the side and you could see that I'm like killing myself, but you're so brave to honor your truth. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:28:05 I rest. Yes. Thank you. I mean, honestly, I think I should be doing it more. Because like, I don't know. It's just a lot. We're grinding a lot. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:15 I also think like not like talk too much about this topic. But there also is a difference between like active. And then like distracted rest. Oh, for sure. Because I think I do a lot of like distracted rest because my way of like winding down and like disconnecting, I guess is like watching TV or like it has been recently. And so but you're not really like resting. You're still consuming.

Starting point is 00:28:49 Even if it's something as like mindless like beautifully mindless as like Love Island for example. famously jean's favorite tv show it's not my favorite tv show i just think it's one that a lot more people should give a chance to and you know you don't need to be snobby about it what do you think about disconnecting that like if you were to trade in because you only have a limited amount of time to rest what if you were to trade in your connected rest to disconnected with disconnected rest like just to get off Wi-Fi and even doing that you've been taking walks and stuff but like i wonder if you could do more of that to like actually really feel more rested.

Starting point is 00:29:26 It's hard because sometimes when I'm doing my like TV watching, I'm still multitasking. Like, I'm still doing something else at the same time. That's not resting. Yeah. I don't know. No, it's, it's, it's not judgment. It's just, I think, an observation. Like, that's not resting.

Starting point is 00:29:44 And maybe that's also like relaxing, but it's not really pausing. Not yet, you know. She's trying to, she's trying to put different labels. on it. Girl, your brain is still working one way or another. Like, I think you should do watercoloring or your jewelry making. Like, that is like to me disconnected, more disconnected if you're looking for a way to pause more. Hmm. Rather than relax. Sure. Maybe they are, they are different. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Sometimes I say good thing sometimes. I'm saying hmm, because I don't know if I agree with her, but we don't need to get much more into it.

Starting point is 00:30:23 What do you guys think? What's the Harmon? trying. Yeah. Okay, well, let us know what you guys think between like resting, pausing. Do you have like a routine around it? Yeah. I don't know if it's partially because he's been so incredibly successful, but he's, he's very much of the mindset of, you know, things happen for a reason. Like he, he said that like a few different ways. And I think. like one of the things that he reflected on or one of like his experiences was that he said when he was really young he and I think his

Starting point is 00:31:02 brother had started a company and they basically they had made like what at the time was a massive blunder of turning down like an acquisition offer for what he says was a life changing amount of money that like wasn't even ever

Starting point is 00:31:18 imaginable to them at the time and after they turned it down like the opportunity basically like went away like the company kind of crumbled and I think he spent like a lot of time he didn't say this explicitly but I think it's like only natural to have a lot of regret after that and be like oh my god I made the wrong decision like how could I have done that but it ended up being that like that is what eventually let him to start that next company that then he sold for $850 million and then like let him to do on like all the things that he's achieved ever since then yeah so I don't know

Starting point is 00:31:54 it's like one of those things where it's like is it attribution like backwards looking attribution bias? Is that a bias? Just like if you're like telling the story being backwards looking like you can attribute one thing to another when like maybe they weren't actually related. But he he thinks that they're related. Yeah. Right. Life is all related. Well, he quoted Steve Jobs.

Starting point is 00:32:20 Yeah. It's just like it's this famous Steve Jobs quote where Steve Jobs. where Steve Jobs in his like 2004 commencement speech or something was just like you can only connect the dots looking back. You have no idea how these things lead to one another, but like your life is all related. Yeah. Yeah. So I think sometimes it's important to remember that when things seem not great. Because like, I don't know, there's always going to be a time, I think, in everyone's life when you're like, whole.

Starting point is 00:32:52 crap, I made a huge mistake or I think I've made a huge mistake. And when you hold on to, you know, decisions that you've made with like a lot of regret, when you could just potentially spend that energy on something that's more forward looking. Yeah. That's definitely something that like I personally try to have been trying to work on. Like the last few years. And one of the things he said is like he's like, I remember he said something about like, oh, it's almost better. to have never had something or like knowing that something was offered to you than to lose it, to feel like you've lost it. I think that's very much like human nature because human nature is to be loss minimizing as opposed to like gain maximizing or something. Like people are always more likely to want to protect downside and not lose what they have versus like put it all out there to try to gain something more. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:51 Yeah. I think it's challenging day to day to have that mindset, but it's like, obviously, like, he's so successful that it's just like, oh, this is the mindset that he's had and how it's helped guide him through life and he can connect to the dots. I was just like, I kind of love that. I want to be reminded of it every single day. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode of the Tiger Sisters. Please remember to like, comment, and subscribe. And if you're listening to this podcast episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, we would so appreciate that. it if you gave us a five-star review. It only takes a few seconds and it means the world to us.

Starting point is 00:34:27 Thanks guys. See you next time. Bye.

Tiger Sisters - Grinding is overrated: the richest people never retire

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