Tiger Sisters - How She Used Claude to Build a Million-Dollar Business: Prompts, Agents, Automations & Real Workflows | CatGPT

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

Check out our matcha brand, Sisters Matcha at ⁠https://www.sistersmatcha.com⁠ Sign up for our newsletter here: https://tigersisters.substack.com/ AI is everywhere, but how are you actually using it to make your work more productive? This week, we sit down with Cat Goetze, aka CatGPT. She's an AI expert, founder, and content creator.We discuss how she used AI to help turn her company, Physical Phones, into a million-dollar business, and dive into her playbook for going from basic chatbot prompts to AI that actually gets sh*t done. Tune in for lessons on:✅ How to graduate from using AI as a chatbot to building AI agents and automations✅ Cat’s best meta-prompting techniques for getting better and more thoughtful results✅ How to use AI to challenge your assumptions instead of simply validating your beliefs ✅ Why you should still double-check AI’s work, and how to train it when it makes mistakes✅ How being more direct (with AI and people) can lead to clearer and better outcomes And! Stay tuned for a special “Roommate Revelations” segment where we spill what we learned about each other after a week of living together in the South of France for Cannes. Whether you’re AI-curious or already deep in the rabbit hole, this episode will level up the way you use it.Timestamps:0:00: Cold Open1:15: Introducing Cat Goetze 3:15: How cat used AI to build a million-dollar business7:15: Turning AI from a chatbot into an agent9:05: Cat’s brand deal automation 11:07: How to set personalized automations13:27: Which AI platform should you use?15:37: Should you pay for an AI platform? 16:38: How Can automates accounts receivables 19:15: How to train AI when it gets something wrong24:10: Cat’s best prompting hack: ask AI to interview you27:24: Why voice and dictation is the future 31:42: Cherie’s AI voice mode hack 34:20: Using AI in your personal life36:00: How to Stop AI From Just Validating You38:00: AI’s environmental impact40:48: Cat’s best meta-prompting techniques45:45: Why AI literacy matters right now51:36: How to give AI more direct feedback56:53: Roommate Revelations: Cannes edition1:01:45: Closing thoughts🐯👯‍♀️ We’re the Tiger Sisters — your Wall Street & Silicon Valley big sisters Decoding Money • Power • Love✨ New episodes every Monday | Shorts all week ✨💌 Want to partner with us? Sponsorships: [e-mail] trust us?▫️ Cherie Brooke Luo — 100M+ views demystifying tech, finance & MBAs▫️ Jean Luo — ex-Goldman Sachs, ex-Snapchat exec, 50+ AI patents, startup investor▫️ Together: 4 Ivy League degrees • built billion-dollar products • two startups — decoded for youWhat you’ll get (and keep):▫️ 🚀 Ivy League cheat sheets — no $250K tuition▫️ Personal finance playbooks (salary, investing, negotiation)▫️ Networking scripts behind $100M+ deals & job offers▫️ Real conversations with CEOs, operators & investors▫️ Mindset resets — clarity without the pricey coach▫️ Systems for career, money, and long-term growth💛 LET’S CONNECT~ CHERIE ~Instagram — /cherie.brookeTikTok — /cherie.brookeSubstack — cherieluo.substack.comLinkedIn — /cherie-luo~ JEAN ~Instagram — /jeanluo_LinkedIn — /jeanluo👉 Hit Subscribe & tap the 🔔, then leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review on Spotify & Apple Podcasts. It takes 10 seconds and makes a massive difference in helping new people discover Tiger Sisters.🛍️ Items:🍵 Sisters Matcha —  ⁠https://www.sistersmatcha.com⁠  🌀 Everything else — https://amzn.to/3z0dx5b

AI, as it stands today, is like having 100 mediocre interns at your fingertips. I think right now trust is at all time low with AI tools. You made $100,000 with AI? Show me. Literally share your screen and show me proofs on the pudding because there's so many grifters out there on the internet. One thing we hadn't really publicized is that we were roommates together for a week in the south of France for Cannes. I think it was just like a tornado, was in our Airbnb. I still think we need to pay two billion dollars in a hotel next year because that shit was.

dusty. I feel guilty because I don't really understand what my AI usage's environmental impact is. Yeah. And yet I continue to do it anyway. You could just use AI only when the sun goes down like me. Save energy. Should everyone be paying for an AI platform at this point? The crazy part about this moment in time that we find ourselves in right now is like we are all writing the guidebook together in real time. I'm Sheree. I'm Gene and I'm Kat. And we're the Tiger sisters. We are your Wall Street and Silicon Valley Big Sisters. And we're a top 10 business podcast bringing late night sister talk meets boardroom strategy. Today we're joined by Kat Getzi. You probably know her as Kat GBT. She is a founder and creator and the internet's sharpest voice on how to use AI to optimize

your personal life and how to use AI to build a million dollar business. Kat used AI to turn her business physical phones into a million dollar business in less than a year. Today, we are tapping into Kat's playbook on the best prompts to use as a coach to improve your life, how to improve your business, and also what the most common pitfalls are in using AI so that you can avoid them. We'll also talk about her best blind spot prompts using AI to actually challenge your assumptions instead of only validating them. And a very, very special one time only special segment called roommate revelations where cat jean and shire are going to talk about what we learned about each other when we were roommates together in the

south of france this summer for a week yay thank you so much cat for joining us thanks for having me i'm so excited it's going to be a great conversation yeah okay so let's start this episode by revealing a little bit of internet history oh god no it's only good it's It's only good things. It's only good things. I trust you guys. Which is that Shari and I were one of the very first people to get our hands on physical phones back when they were just prototypes when we used them in our photo shoot in 2024. That's right. Oh my gosh.

I almost forgot. We mailed you guys early, early. Early, editor, throw those photos up. Yeah, for real. That's amazing. That's right. The lore runs steep. I don't even know if they were functional at that point.

They were just designed prototypes. I think they were design prototypes. and shout out Maggie, who brought them over, and we used them for our photo shoot, and it was so awesome. They were functional for the photos. They served the purpose. And the photos turned out great. You guys are caught.

The phones looked hot, too. Thank you. I agree. So, Kat, diving into part one, how you used AI to build a million-dollar business. You built a million-dollar business using AI, and you were selling landline phones, which is such a funny sentence. And now you've evolved physical phones to the ultra successful product and into Cat Labs, which is a full-fledged experience and company. How did you use AI to build your companies?

And specifically, what did you use it for to supercharge your multiple businesses? Yeah, totally. So I think first and foremost, I want to set the scene by saying, if anybody thinks that simply by using AI tools, all of a sudden, a business is going to fall out of thin air or become fabricated. in front of them. That is absolutely not how it works. Just because we have AI today, you still need the business know-how, the knowledge, the grit, the intuition, the sense of a market and what's working and what people want and need in order to make yourself successful. AI, what it does is it supercharges and helps you get to where you want to go faster because it means you don't need as much capital to hire people early on to do the things that you yourself either might not know how to do or

just don't have the time to do when it takes a village to get something like physical phones off the ground. So as an example in the earliest days of getting this product started, we did everything from researching different factories to help us build our physical phones on, you know, tools like chat GPT and Claude, as well as like just actually going through and helping like writing copy and automating some of our different systems inside of the company so that instead of having to hire six to ten people to do what we did, we were able to do it with a group of two to do. three freelancers. Yeah. One of my friends has this amazing saying about AI that like AI as it stands today is like having a hundred mediocre interns at your fingertips. What do you think about that statement and

how do you use AI to turn them from like mediocre interns to like really good ones? Yeah, for sure. I like that statement because I think what is implicit in it is this idea that much like an intern or a human hire, you have to train these systems to understand you and your business. And the tools and the access and the context that you give it will impact how useful it's able to be. So as an example, just going back and forth and chatting with an AI bot is not going to be as useful if you don't give it access to your Slack chats or your Google Drive. The more systems you plug into it, it's like giving your intern access to all those different company tools as well. Now all of a sudden and it can actually go and do more research and take more action and be successful in the role.

And you are going to feel like it's smarter simply by giving it more access. So the first thing is giving it more tools. The second thing is also enriching it with more context. So there's all sorts of different things you can do like creating projects or just organizing your chats by folders in your different tools that you're using. And when you do that, you're taking advantage of the fact that these products are meant to collect context around certain topics. So if you take advantage of that and you build a project around the company that you're building or finance or customer service, whatever it may be, that part of your Claude or ChatsyPT project is going to get better and better at learning your preferences over time. Okay. So step one is to connect it to basically all the other systems that you're already using. Yes.

And then do you like issue commands from those systems? Like how advanced is this setup? Like are you creating automations and like what? us through that. Yeah, totally. I really want to encourage people to not get too overwhelmed by this, because I actually think that the systems are way more intuitive and way simpler than Tech Bros on Twitter and Instagram will try to make you think that it is. Like, this stuff is not rocket science. I absolutely promise you. So if someone were starting completely from scratch and was like, I'm ready to graduate from using a chatbot and I want to start actually using AI like an agent, what's the very first thing I should do? I would say, download the cloud desktop app. turn on co-work, which is basically just like chat, except now it can handle more context and go off

for longer and do tasks that take a longer amount of time. And then connect it with all of your different apps, like we just said, Slack, Google Drive, Gmail, calendar, et cetera. And then start interacting with it and asking it to do things, not that you would ask like a little intern to do, but something that you might ask like an analyst or, you know, a manager, someone on your team who's like actually helping you get real work done and do real knowledge work. Between those things and just again literally turning on a co-work toggle in an app that you can download off the internet in 30 seconds from an accredited frontier lab like this is not some weird voodoo terminal stuff like you it's it's very user friendly and I think sometimes the word agent turns into

it's like a it's a weird scary word that I think it's like a witchy word it's very witchy it's not in a fun way all the time now people like agents you know I have to make an agent how do I code an agent from scratch but you're saying it's not even that hard it's really not that hard like there's an incentive for the people who are inside of this world to also continue to make it sound scary because then they get to like have it all for themselves. But the reality is the more that we can demystify this for other people, the more we can help like spread what is actually democratizing access to building companies faster and therefore like finding financial independence. Yeah. On your own terms. Well, it sounds like getting started will take less than 10 minutes.

Of the of the steps that you described, like downloading this app, connecting it to all the other parts of your workflow. like 10 minutes to just even get started and then writing your first prompt with all these connected apps. And can I just tell one story about like this was the moment for me where like my brain really exploded on this stuff and I was like, okay, I just feel like I discovered fire. I was using co-work pretty early on and was like, okay, what can I like, how can I bring all these pieces together to like actually gather value for my team and like really put something load bearing for my business on this tool? And essentially what I did is for CatchyBT, the media business. I'm in a Slack channel with my management team who's constantly pitching me

brand deals and saying like, hey, would you want to do like this deal with this company or this deal with that company? And it's so much to keep track of that by the time, a couple months later, I'm, you know, getting followed up by them and they're saying, hey, we need X, Y, Z video for that brand deal that we talked about four months ago. I'm like, wait, what brand deal? And I'm like, searching through the Slack and it's just super inefficient. So what I did was, I went into Claude Co-work and I said, okay, look at this Slack channel. I want you to crawl the last nine months of history of me getting pitched brand deals from this management company and organize every single one into a notion database that includes the name of the company that the brand deal was with, how much money it was for, what the deliverables are, what the dates are, what the prices, all this stuff. And it took that and it churned on it for a long time because the amount of threads and back and forth, you know, you start a conversation about one thing here, two other people say something and then three days later you're following up on that and it's like super disorganized.

But the intelligence behind these systems on these models have gotten good enough that it can actually like parse out all of that complexity and noise and conversation. And it actually turned it into a notion database that then I could go through and much more easily scan and search to find the deals that I was looking for. And most importantly, the thing that I did after that was I set an automation so that every day at 9 a.m. It goes into the same Slack channel and checks for any updates on previous threads that it knows haven't closed out yet or checks for news. new threads of new deals that have gotten pitched, and it constantly updates that notion database. So essentially, I went from being like, I wonder what are all the deals we've been pitched or having no way to kind of audit or inventory, what we've agreed to or what I've been pitched, to a very reliable constant source of truth about what the inbound for my business looks like.

Ready to take your investing knowledge to pro level? This is Fidelity Connects, your daily edge in the markets. Get deep insights on real-time market topics that may impact your investment portfolio. Listen to Fidelity Connects on Spotify today and power your next move tomorrow. And then talk us through the part where you said you set an automation. How does that happen? Or how did you do that? Yeah, totally. Once again, like any main frontier lab has these desktop apps that are very easy to use.

But yeah, if you go into the Cloud Desktop app on the left-hand side, you'll see something that says scheduled automations or automations or scheduling. I forget exactly what it says. Okay. But when you click on that button, it'll basically just say, like, what automation do you want to schedule? And you can just describe in plain English exactly what you want it to do. And it might ask you a couple questions, be like, okay, just to confirm, this is what you want. Okay, here are the tools that I'll need to run. And it's truly that simple.

Then it creates this little automation. There's a toggle on and off. But there's no like with Zapier and some of these other tools we've used in the past, you'd have to like be very specific about the things that connect and where you're pulling data in from and how you're going to enrich that. All of that goes away. You literally just use plain English to. describe what you want to happen and it will do it. That's really cool. So what you just described, that is an AI agent, right? Does that count as an AI agent? Yeah, absolutely. That's what I mean when I'm like, people make it sound scary and you know what I mean. But I think a lot of times when people will use AI agent, they're referring to something that will go off and then do additional,

like what I described is fairly, it's fairly easy to understand. It's like very directly replacing an amount of like tactical kind of clicking around labor that I would otherwise have to do. Sometimes I think when people refer to agents, they're talking about coding agents, which are actually writing code. Right. But they're all agents. The way I think about agents is just an AI that can do stuff. Yeah. Hi, Tiger fam. Take five seconds to subscribe to the Tiger Sisters podcast. Because when you subscribe, you are notified every single time a new episode comes out. Also, as you guys might know, we have a newsletter. So please sign up for the newsletter. The link is in the description. Or you can also find it at Tiger's Sisters Podcast.com. Thanks, guys. Now back to the show. Also, I've tried a bunch of these different AI

platforms. I like Claude because it does prompt you for like, it asks questions back so that it can get more specific. But looking across all these AI platforms and you bring up Claude specifically with this co-work example, can you walk us through which ones that you use for what or what it should we specialize in one if we really like it or how are you thinking about which ones we should use because there's so many out there. There's so many out there. There's so much noise. And one of the most common assumptions that I hear from people is that they have to know all of them and that literacy with AI is equivalent to literacy with all the tools. You have to know all the tools if you're good at AI. I think that is probably the most wrong assumption that's like very common in this field.

The reality is I think you should pick one and go really deep on it and learn it really well. So if you're going to take Claude, for example, just click on every button that you see. in the interface and get to know what it does. Because the fact of the matter is, I think we're seeing all of these different Frontier Labs start to converge and commoditize the intelligence layer. And so now what's becoming different is the product layer and what people are able to get out of each of the different desktop apps and web apps and tools. And we're seeing, you know, Anthropic come out with like Claude Design and all these

different things. But for the most part, they're kind of all copying each other. Like they're all sort of the same. So, yeah, if you take Claude, for example, I think just like getting really. good in getting to know Claude and Claude's voice is like a great way to just kind of go all in on one thing. So for you personally at this point, are you still using multiple tools for different things where maybe you've like trained one up in one specific area or are you kind of trying to just spend more time on improving the one that you spend the most time in? Definitely the latter.

I just spend for me personally, I've put so much context into my conversations with Claude that that's where it knows a lot about me, I will say that's also not a really good reason to like stay with one though, meaning if there was a product advantage of going to somebody else, exporting the knowledge that I have from one tool to another, isn't that hard? You can actually just say like, tell me everything that you know about me and it will just spit it all out and then you can just grab that and copy and paste it and drop it into the next tool. Granted, you're going to lose some depth, but no matter what every tool that you're using in a conversational interface is summarizing and compressing all your conversations from the past. So it's never going to have

like perfect memory and know absolutely everything about you. So I think the switching costs are a little bit overblown. Should everyone be paying for an AI platform at this point? That's a good question. I think so. I think so. I think the the difference in the pro version, which is like $20 a month or whatever, versus the free version is significant in terms of intelligence and also just level of access. You won't run out of credit so quickly. From max to pro, I understand if that's like not in everyone's budget because that's like literally an order of magnitude higher. But I do think that for professionals, especially if you can expense it through work, it is absolutely worth every penny. What level are you using now?

I use max. Yeah, because I use it all the time. Because she's catchy BT. I'm on the max plan. Yeah. So I pay for the highest tier of chatchipt and Claude. I really love the example that you gave us of this agent that you. you made and you made it sound really simple to create. Do you have any other examples that you

could walk us through of recurring sort of projects or these kind of automated workflows that you've made for your business? Yeah, totally. Another one that I would describe is somewhat related, but it's basically an accounts receivable automation. So in my media business, we create sponsored videos and then after that the brand sends money. essentially. And sometimes it's hard to know, okay, wait, when are we supposed to get paid for that thing? And did we get paid? And I am not an accountant. And I also don't have a full-time finance person on my team to follow up and do accounts receivable. And so basically, we built an automation that looks at the database of payouts and matches that up with an export that I grab

once a week from my bank statement and basically matches the two and says, okay, did we receive, did like the literal cash land in the bank to match up with what, we allegedly were sent because like ultimately the bank is the source of truth, at least for me. And so that's again, just like very much automated. And the way that it marries it all up is just like within Claude Co-work. And then it sends an automated message to me on Slack every week, just letting me know like, hey, these payments are going to come. These ones are looking late.

And it gives me and my team something to reference when we go back to the management team and we're like, hey, just want to follow up on this payment. And it saves us so much time. in terms of manual effort. I will say we have run into snafus with this automation. Okay. And I mentioned that because I think it's really important to call out that these systems are not perfect. And that for any responsible business owner,

you're not going to put something as important as like final, say, financial accounting on an AI agent, unless you're like 100% sure that it will not hallucinate or make mistakes. So we still look at all these things that the bots are doing. and occasionally we find mistakes. And so I mention it because it's also like it is an ever-evolving thing where we're working with it to make sure that we're mitigating as many mistakes as possible. But those things do crop up. Ultimately what we find is that we still save a lot more time

by using these tools and then going back and double-checking their work than we would if we had to do everything from scratch. But don't believe everything you hear. There's a lot of people on the internet who are like, it works flawlessly every time. I think responsible business. owners should know that you should always double check and make 100% sure. And only when you've seen it be successful time and time and time again without any mistakes, should you kind of

take your eye off of that. When you do find these mistakes, do you try to then train the model to be like, hey, you made this mistake, make sure you don't make it again? Or are they still making the same mistakes over and over you find? Yeah, it depends on the kind of mistake. So yes, oftentimes it's as simple as just like, hey, I forgot to mention when we get paid out for this particular brand partner, it goes into this bucket so you don't need to worry about that. Or like, I forgot to mention, don't factor in external transfers because those are just moving between my accounts. Like, things like that that are just missing logic. But when it's an actual mistake, there's kind of two things I like to do. The first thing is to just tell the model, hey, this was the success criteria.

This is what you did instead. Do you understand the delta and don't do it again, essentially? Is that the language you use? This is a success criteria. this is what you did. Do you understand the Delta? Yes. Yes. I think it need the more clear and direct you are with these models, just like with an employee. It's easier to understand. You're using computer language with the computer. Yeah, exactly. Programming language. Exactly. Like computers are like inherently deterministic. Obviously we're talking about a large language model. So like that's weird. But in general, like think about it like a programming language, like the more concrete and specific you can be, the better.

Camputa. Canbuda. Do you understand? I brought that up last night and no one knew what I was talking about. Okay, good thing. Everyone just started her. It was like, okay. Camboor.

Sheria dinner. Campura. And then the other thing that I recommend doing is looking up the dot MD file. Do you know what I mean by this? No. Tell us. Okay. So when you're interacting, like let's say in Claude Code or Claude Co-Work or Chat-EPT

co-work or any of these other. tolls. So wait, would we call this intermediate level? Yeah, I think that's, I think that's intermediate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically what I mean by this is like when you go, and I wish I had my laptop, I can show you what this means, but like in Claude, if you turn on co-work, it's going to be like, do you want to select a folder to work in? And you're like, what folder and why would I need to do that? This is what before when I was referencing projects where it can be helpful because what's going to happen is if you say, I'm about to start working with Claude and we're going to start working through accounts receivable and finance stuff. I'm probably going to

come back to Claude and want to keep talking about this later or like next month or in a week. So what I'm going to do is before I just start running off the bat and having this conversation, I'm going to create a new folder on my desktop, like literally how you would save like photos in a folder, a file is in a folder, a new folder anywhere on your computer and you're going to call it finance or whatever. And then in Claude on that little button that says select a folder, you're going to click on that. You're going to navigate to that finance folder and you're going to select it and you're going to click continue. What that's going to do is it's going to centralize all of the context and conversations from the one you're about to have about finance, plus any future conversations where you go back

and select that folder again into one place on your computer, which means that Cloud or ChatTPT or whatever tool you're using is going to start writing and saving files directly into that folder that will help it remember in the future what that folder is all about and what this project is and what you're working on. So without you even prompting it or knowing that it's doing it, these tools are writing markdown files, which are essentially just very plain text word documents. Like there's type on a page explaining, okay, Sheree really wants to talk about finance. Sounds like she's got a couple tools going on. These are the three that she's mentioned. She really wants me to double check to make sure that nothing, you know what I mean?

Like it's writing its own memory. And then it saves it into that folder. And so when I say a dot MD file, dot MD is like the shorthand for a markdown file. It's like dot xLSX is an Excel doc. It's just the whatever that's called the suffix. And you can actually go in and you can go to that file on your computer and open it up and read it. And so sometimes if you read through it, you'll realize, oh, it hallucinated because it saved the wrong logic here. And so you can either modify it by asking Claude to change it or you can literally just delete it and type it and say it the way you want. Or modify it yourself.

Yeah. Interesting. I like these examples. about the accounts receivable and also the first example you gave about matching up the brand deals and creating a folder to keep track of what's coming in and when. Those are pretty straightforward because it deals with numbers and updating those numbers. When you think about using AI platforms for more creative work or also things that are more strategic or we said in the beginning challenging assumptions, how do you change your prompts? and how you approach one of these platforms. Yeah, totally.

So a couple of things come to mind right away. Number one, I absolutely love to ask for it to ask me questions. So I'm constantly telling Claude or Chatty BT to please interview me or ask me any follow-up questions to ensure that it fully understands what I want it to do before I have it go off and do whatever thing that is, especially if it's like any kind of creative or kind of more open-ended thing that's less about like, hey, crunch these numbers or check this thing. It's more like, I need to work with you on this and we're going to kind of be a thought partner together. The reason why I do that is because these models thrive on context and on clarity.

But sometimes it's hard to be, you're sitting there thinking like, what's all of the possible context it would need to know? Like you're sitting there and you're racking your brain, but it's hard to know everything. Yeah. And so it's a hack to just be like, just tell me what you need to know. What else are you wondering? And it will, it does a phenomenal job of identifying what the holes are in what you've just asked it to do. Yeah. And it'll just tell you what the holes are and you could just answer it that way.

I love this best practice. So then what do you say? You're like, oh, please, I want you to do this. And then what do you write at the end? Like, what's the phrase you add? Ask me any other questions you need to know? Exactly. So it'll be like trying to think of an example for this. So perhaps like writing a job description, right? It'll be like, I start with the wireframe. I'm not just going to have it write a job description for something for me because that's really important for my business. And I want to make sure I have my thumbprint on what I really care about. So I'll start with it. I'll give it 15 bullet points of like here's the things that I want. But I'm not going to sit there and write like the full bio and description and everything. So I'll drop that in and go, I want you to help me write a job description for my company. Here's the starting point, paste in the 15 bullet points. Ask me any questions that you have in order to make sure you have the context that you need to complete this job. Okay. Ask me any other questions you have to ensure that you have the context to complete this job. Exactly. And like I know that can be helpful to know the exact sentence, but also if you word it slightly differently or you just say like, ask me any

questions you have, that's totally fine too. It'll still work. And then when you write the prompt, do you include this is the success criteria or like how often do you use that sort of language? I feel like the success criteria language and being like super, super specific is more for when I'm trying to automate something that I need to run over and over and over again without me looking at it. If it's just a one-off task and I'm going to be right here with it and it's I'm not going anywhere. I'm I don't worry about that as much because I'm going to be involved the whole time. Yeah, I guess it's more when you have like a determinate outcome versus an indeterminate outcome. Yes. Yeah, exactly. So Kat, I have a more advanced question. We kind of did beginner

intermediate and now for advanced. Yeah, yeah, sound the horns. So how do you, we talk about like we're like, Gene, you like actually like did typing hands as you're like typing out. Is this coming from Sheree, the computer engineer, computer science engineer, major? No, it's more casual than that. How do you use one of these AI platforms when you're doing speak to text or dictation? Or I don't know. I just see some of these videos on like Instagram where I'm like, oh, that's so sexy.

Someone's like talking to their AI and like walking across the street and like it's so integrated into their workflow. They're like strutting and like working at the same time. Like how do we do that and does it actually work and what's that all about? And they're like, ah, yes. I literally made a t-shirt. that said hot girls don't walk and look at their phone. But we do walk and talk to our phone. You just can't look at it.

We walk and talk to our AI agents. Here, yeah. Okay. So the, yes, one like hot take that I have is that in the future we're going to be doing a lot less typing and a lot more talking to our devices. Will it be through glasses? Doubtful. Who's to say? Who's to say? Who's to say?

Love you, Mehta. But I do think that dictation has gotten so freaking accurate, like biblically accurate, that you could just talk way faster than you can type. Previously, when we didn't have large language models and you weren't talking with AI chatbots, it's like, yeah, dictation is great, but like what's the point of like typing up a big rambly thing? Because now you have to go back and edit it before you can send it to anybody else. But now because we have these AI chat bots, you can load that baby up with rambly context. it's still going to be able to process everything you're telling it. So when you see, like, it's kind of crazy. If you go into any startup in the San Francisco Bay Area right now and you open the doors of like a Wiiwork or something like that, every single desk has a gooseneck microphone. Have you seen this? And it's because they all have this application called Whisperflow. And it's literally just like a super simple app. You download it off the internet and you turn it on and you have this little like gooseneck mic. And people are just like, upload the context in the dot MD5. that I have to sing, and it's like everyone's whispering in the office because nobody's typing anymore. Say it again.

Yeah, so, go ahead and just upload the CD.com. And it's so weird. But it's how it works. Like that's how everyone's doing it. So yeah, I'm big, big, big, big on dictation. Like once you do whisper flow, you'll never go back. I'm constantly talking to my AI. The thing that I do is like in the car, I'll turn on one of the agents and I'm talking to it and it responds to me.

And it's just like, I'm talking to someone on speech. speakerphone and I'll be from like anything from like, hey, I'm driving a Trader Joe's right now and I'm like about to make dinner, help me brainstorm this stuff. Or I'll be like, hey, I'm coming out of work. It's just like a normal conversation. And I can have it in the car where I'm like hands free. Well, I have to like be like eyes free looking at the road. Totally. I do the exact same thing. Yeah. The times I use voice the most are context dumping for something like what I just described or it's like a big task and you're like I'm not going to sit here and type out all the context that I need to share with you. I'm just going to give you a bunch of rambling thoughts and you turn these rambling thoughts into a job description or something like that. Or or like you just said driving. The other hack that I'll do for that is I find that I end up using driving time a lot to, like, go down weird, like, nerdy rabbit holes. Like, I had this thought the other day while I was driving where I was just like, wait, how are billionaires leveraging their assets to, like, get loans? And how does that not just put them in more debt? And like, how does the flywheel continue? Like, whatever.

Who am I going to call to ask about this? The things I go on in cat's head while she's driving in LA. So far cry from a billionaire. It's just a bunch of fluff up there, you know. What? Exactly. What color should I paint my nails next? Yeah.

So anyways, I like, but what I do for that is yes, I'll, I'll like dictate with Chachy BT or what have you. I find that Chachy B.T. voice is really good. I like it. So it's really good for that. But instead of having it. The British guy? No, but I don't have it talk back to me because I don't like how it shortens.

All the answers are really short. The things that I'm going in on, I'm like, no, I want you to give me like a lesson right now. Like, we're going to do math. Like, let's go in. Yeah. And so what I do is. is I just dictate. I do speech to text, sends the text. But what I append to the end before I hit release is I say, give me back the response in the form of a transcript that could be read aloud to me.

Because if you don't do that, it'll give its answer with like a bunch of headers and then like number one, number two, number three, and it breaks out. So it's more easy to scan if you're reading. But if you're driving, it's like header one, idea, header two. Like it enunciates each of those things and it makes no sense. So you have it read back as a transcript. And then if you scroll down, there's a little play button, which nobody ever clicks on. But if you, any chat GPT response you get, you can click play, and it'll just voice over everything it said. And so then it'll talk for like six minutes. You like it more than the conversation because the conversation isn't doing it because it's too truncated. Yes. Interesting. I haven't tried that before. I'll have to try that. And you don't

like that it interrupts you. No, not that it doesn't interrupt me, but that it's too short. It's like way too short. Like it's more conversational. Like it'll say something for 30 seconds, then you have to respond. And then it's just like a very back and forth, which works really well. My hack is for language practicing. I've used it to practice like Mandarin and also Cantonese. And you can tell it very specific with like dialects, like where you want them from, like Hong Kong Cantonese versus like Kanto Cantonese. That's really, really cool. And it gets like the nuances. Has it helped? No. But the thing is I feel like it can't talk slowly. No, you can tell to slow down. Really? Oh, they must have improved it then because I've asked it in the past to slow

down and it's like, like, yeah, no problem, but it still says it really, like, okay, okay. Yeah, I could do that for you. Then the other thing is, like, it's really, chatypte voice really annoys me because it's like, ah, totally understand. That's a great point. No problem. Got it. Absolutely.

And I'm like, shut up. You're so annoying. But in a British accent. But in a British accent. Or that's, again, if you're like, just give me the transcript and then read it, it'll just talk like a normal person. I see. I like that method.

Yeah. That's cool. Hey guys, so you might notice we are in an incredible studio right now. Thanks, Spotify. And if you are not noticing, because you're listening, watch on Spotify. Turn on your video. See this amazing studio. Check out the lighting, guys. It is so good. When you're watching on Spotify, you get so much more of the in-person experience with Gene and me. You see the bansa, you see our facial expressions, and it's way more engaging. Turn on your video and check us out. Now back to the show. Okay, Katz. So let's move on to how you use AI in your personal life. Because one thing I learned about you when we were roomies together in France. In France. In France. Is that you are super organized and just like, I feel like you're like really optimized in your day-to-day life. So I'm curious, how do you use AI as part of that system that you've built? It's funny that you say that because I feel like I sometimes feel up. Here's what I think I do. I think I spend a good. amount of time deciding what I'm going to be spending my time on up front. Yeah. So that I have a lot of

free time to like breathe and be creative later. So it's funny that you say that I'm optimal. Sometimes I feel like I'm not, but thank you. Okay. How do I use AI in my personal life, like to stay organized essentially? Yeah. And you can even talk about maybe just the system that you've built like really sort of briefly. And then maybe if there are any ways that AI plug into that. Yeah. Well, essentially, I honestly don't, I honestly don't know if I'm the best person to answer this question because I really don't use AI much in my personal life at all. Like my AI usage is pretty much entirely isolated to my business. I'm trying to think like, of course there's the occasional like, my stomach hurts. What should I take? But that's more kind of just like loose. You could also just Google that. You know what I mean? Like I wouldn't consider that very like intermediate or advanced AI usage. And I think we're all doing that anyway nowadays. There's probably more stuff that I would recommend against with using AI in personal life that I would recommend for people to do. As an example, like, me and my partner are in this argument. What should we do?

I think that these models have a real tendency to reflect us back at us. And an unintended side effect of that is that it can really hype you up. And sometimes to a detriment where you don't see all that. points of view. And I think it's a really slippery slope, especially for people who really just want to hear their own ideas reinforced. And I actually think what's far more valuable is going out into the real world and finding friends and a friend group and people in your life who can like push back on those ideas and like provide another point of view. I don't know if that's what you meant by personal life. Yeah. But that's kind of how I interpret it. Whenever I hear AI in personal life,

like little alarm bills start going off in my head. I mean, There have been points when I've used AI in that way and made sure to call out and like, what am I not seeing here? Like, challenge my assumptions. Like, this is my point of view. This is the argument that we had. And this is how I'm thinking about it. Like play devil's advocate and challenge me.

I'm like, am I being too harsh or like, how are things actually going on the other side? I think one way to do this is you just always ask for the bull case and the bear case. Sorry, that's, again, a very businessy way to say it. But it's like, no, that's good. Give me the supportive and the, like, devil's advocate point of view on everything that I give you. Like, on every, and just, but the thing is you have to remember to ask for that every time. Yeah. It's risky because if you forget to ask for it.

Again, listen, I think sometimes you do just want to be, like, soothed a little bit. Yeah. And it's going to be like, isn't she a bitch or whatever? It's, like, helpful to have. Yeah, she is. She's so annoying. Yes. You're so right.

But I think some people don't even realize it's doing that. They think it's objective. And that's where they're like, they feel very self-righteous about everything because now they've got a chat pot in their pocket. It's funny because sometimes you people say like when you talk to a friend and you have an issue, sometimes the friend is like, okay, do you want me to give you like solutions or do you want me to just listen and empathize or do you want me to like give you opposing viewpoints? It's kind of like the default for chat CBD is always to empathize. Yeah. Unless you ask it to do the other things. Yeah. That's actually a great point. Yeah. I think this is a good way of putting it. I will say Claude does a better job.

job of providing that opposing viewpoint without you having to remember to ask for it, then chat chit. Chatchipit no matter what is going to hype you up. Claude will be like, you sure about that? Okay. Like it's kind of, it will push back. I think it's default is much more likely to lean that way. Interesting.

Kat, we did an episode on Tiger Sisters maybe a few months back now on how to use AI to be hotter, healthier, and happier. And in the comments of that episode, it was like our first foray into like talking. more about AI officially. And in the comments of that episode, people brought up the environmental impacts of using AI. And I just kind of want to get your opinion and thoughts on like, how can we reconcile the use of AI every day that helps us with our productivity and our work and the negative impact on the environment? Totally. I'm really glad you brought this up. I'm actually doing a campaign right now with Anthropic because part of the thing that I feel

really challenged about right now with my own AI usage isn't merely I feel guilty because of the environmental impact of AI. It's I feel guilty because I don't really understand what my AI usage's environmental impact is. Yeah. And yet I continue to do it anyway. Like for me, the gap isn't, I know it's bad and therefore I do it. It's like, I don't even know what the impact is because I've seen such wildly different sources saying things from, it's the scourge of the earth and it's burning the atmosphere on a scale we have never before witnessed to like everyone is overblowing this and you literally, it uses less energy than like a hairdriar. I'm like, how are we getting such varying views on this? And so Anthropic right now is currently doing a campaign called

Hard Questions where they're actually welcoming their audience and asking the public to ask them their hardest questions about AI so that they can go back to the research and come back and give them those answers. And so I'm currently partnering with them. I don't know when this episode's going to come out. It might be done already. But if there's still time to like collect these questions from people and that's my question that I provided them so that we can actually like come back with those answers. Yeah. Do we need a third party on that on that research study? Very fair. Paging McKinsey. Yeah. I would say the EPA but maybe not the EPA these days. But yeah, who is objective on this matter?

Harvard, get in there. Yeah, somebody, please. But it's a good, but it's a good call out. Yeah, unfortunately, I wish I had more information about exactly like what the environmental impact is. I do believe it's getting overblown. But I don't, I cannot sit here and tell you why that is or like show the facts. So I really don't know. I mean, I think it's fair to say that you're in information gathering mode.

I think that's a totally fair answer. Like you're not like, oh, I know what the answer is. I mean, I think all of us are like, we don't really know what the, we don't know what the carbon footprint is. We don't have that information. Yeah. And I don't know if it's like we don't have it because nobody has it. Again, it's just like there's so much different, disparate sources of truth on this. And nobody, it all seems to be so different.

Yeah. Or you could only, you could just use AI only when the sun goes down like me. Save energy. Good for you. It's the little things. It's the little things. I love that. That was a joke. Oh, I couldn't know. I thought you were serious.

I was joking. Okay. I thought you were like, I'm a night owl. And I was like, oh, that's cool. You were so new. You were going along with it. Oh, nice. All right, Kat. So we're moving into a section where we're talking about practical prompts from your playbook. So as we're talking about prompts, I want to hear like something that anyone listening or watching this episode right now, if they were to do something immediately after. what is one thing that they should do in their AI platform. Yeah, totally. So I think when we think about this in terms of like, what's one prompt that everyone should do? It's kind of tricky because like the reality is your prompt should be entirely different depending on what your needs are.

If you are a teacher, a prompt that is extraordinarily valuable to you is going to be completely different from somebody who's an entrepreneur. So it's not like it's like saying like what's the best Google search someone can do. It's like, what do you want to know? you know what I mean? So I think instead I'd like to reframe that a little bit is like what are some great metaprompting techniques that anybody can use? And a metaprompting technique is literally just like how what are ways that you can prompt that improve the results of what you get back regardless of the use case. And so an example of like a metaprompting technique that I am obsessed with and I use all of the time is when I am trying to use AI to make something sound better.

or more broadly to like take a rough version of something and then polish it and make it more mature. So let's go back to that job description example, right? I know I'm hiring a community manager and I've written down 15 bullet points, but I need to like actually turn this into a legit job description now. What I'll do is I'll go to Claude, for example, and I'll say, this is a very important job description. I want you to read it, assess its goal, analyze it for shortcomings, against that goal and then rewrite it to address those shortcomings. And then what you do is you provide

a rough draft of whatever it is that you have. So if I just have 15 bullet points, I'll include that. But if I have an email that I'm writing to somebody for a negotiation, I'll include that. Anything that's like sensitive and I need to get the framing and the tone right, this is a perfect prompt for that. And what it's going to do is by framing the initial prompt as I want you to first assess its goal and then analyze it for shortcomings against that goal. you're actually prompting the AI to analyze it at the overall structural level as opposed to just at the sentence level, which is what it's going to default to if you just say, make this email sound better. So that's an example of like a meta-prompting technique that will instantly improve the results of all the results of everything that you get back. It reminds me of it sounds like you're having the AI basically do like an SAT question where it's like analyze the intention of this.

and then assess it for success against the goal that you've, you know, assigned it. Like, it sounds like it's a writing section of the SAT. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You're making it take the SAT. And so do you use that? So you basically use it on anything that's external facing, it sounds like. Where I feel like I need help.

Yeah. A lot of external facing things, I'll just shoot off myself. But if it's something like really sensitive or dense or I just want to get another pair of eyes on it and I don't have anybody else near me to help, then, yeah, that's, something that I'll... And you're right, this is an important document? Yeah, I'll just write. This is an important X. There's an important document, an important job description, an important email. Interesting. Whatever it is. It's really fun to hear all the like tips and tricks and like the little things that different people do. Yeah, I know. It's fascinating, right? Another one I learned recently. It's

more relevant to people who are using AI for like coding and stuff. But my buddy showed me how he will go back and forth with AI and it'll be like, sorry, I can't do that. And it'll be like, yes, you can. Try harder. And then it does it. And then it just does it. You know what I mean? It's like, it's so like that's another technique that people can use. Again, it has more to do with like when you're trying to get it to do something agentic and take action. Sometimes it's just like, like I've done this before where I've, I saw other people online using Claude to analyze videos and then like categorize and organize their videos. And mine came back to me and was like, oh, sorry, I can't. I can't read video. And I was like, yes, you can. Like, I know you can do this. And then it came up with a

creative solution where it basically took the video, broke it up into screenshots and took like frames from each five seconds. And then it was able to like infer what the video was about by taking those screenshots and the screenshots on them and everything like that. So I was able to fully get it like to the end goal of what I needed it to do. It just had to come up with a creative solution. So sometimes it just needs nudging. You're like, why are you lying to me? Yeah. AI platform. Just gaslight it. Right. Yeah. Well, so you got an idea from talking to one of your friends about how they use AI. So like, are you learning about metaprompting through your own trial and error? Or where do you go to get all the goodness, the tips yourself? Are there, yeah, like video platforms or channels that you recommend? Yeah. I recommend catchy BT. But seriously, like, from friends. Like the crazy part about this moment in time that we find ourselves in right now is like there is no playbook. There's no guidebook. Like we are all writing the guidebook together in real time. And so the most valuable insights that I personally am getting from how to use these tools is from the people that I surround myself with who are also experimenting in real time. And when we come together and we share those learnings, we're able to actually like compound those and learn from each other, which is exactly why I built Cat Labs. Like Cat Labs literally exists so that I had an excuse to bring all.

my smartest friends together and be like, so we're going to hang out and talk about metaprompting and just like share screens and talk about what we're doing. We're literally hosting an event tonight where the event is called How I Built This and everyone has to go up with their laptop, plug in their laptop to the TV, screen share, and they spend one minute showing what they built, but then they spend four minutes screen sharing into Claude Code or whatever tool they used to build it and literally scrolling through and showing us, here is exactly what I said and the exact skills and methods and tools that I used in order to make the result that you just saw. Because I think right now trust is at all time low with AI tools.

And people on the internet and elsewhere are saying, okay, you made $100,000 with AI, show me. Prove it to me. Literally share your screen and show me proofs on the pudding because there's so many grifters out there on the internet who are saying that because then they're trying to sell you something. Yeah. But like who's actually doing it for real? I think that is the value of actually turning the camera and being like, we're going to

talk the talk and walk the walk. And part of that comes with showing what it can't do yet. You know, that's why I point out things of like, look, we've had some snafus with the finance thing and we can't fully take our hands off the wheel yet. That's a good call out. I do think that these models are the dumbest they will ever be, which is absolutely bananas, because if we made absolutely zero intelligence improvements on these models, we would still be figuring out how to deploy them across the economy and it would be transforming the world that we

live in for the next 20 years without a doubt. And yet these models continue to increase in their intelligence exponentially over time. I think the world we're about to inherit is going to look so wildly different from where we are today. So there are very few things that are more important right now than for people to like get really literate with these tools and understand what they are and are not capable of. Real Canadian Superstore has everything you need this back to school season. savers like Zinke's sliced deli meat products for always 375 and get life brand pure Vita shampoo or conditioner for $8 each at real Canadian superstore when you're ready we're ready with a whole world and more yeah I'm pretty fired up I mean I'm like I feel very inspired to go back home and kind of do

like a clean up m session to kind of like dig into what we're using now and set it up in a better way because I think one thing you said earlier that I really loved was the fold setting up the folder ahead of time. It's just so funny because it reminds me of like back when you work in corporate, there's this kind of concept of like folder hygiene and just general like work hygiene and setting things up so that the system is set up for success in the future when you bring in a lot of different people or once you have a lot of tasks and workflows and all that stuff. And this is like the new age version of it where you need to have a set of rules and hygiene and best practices for setting up your. AI desktop, basically.

Yeah. I think also said another way, like if you were joining a team, you would have an onboarding file or an onboarding doc for yourself or for other people. And in that way, you need an onboarding doc. Maybe it's a markdown file for AI. But you need to onboard all of your AI folders and tools to make it efficient for your own projects and usage. 100%. I think using AI tools is very similar to hiring. It is just like bringing on someone new to the team. The more context you can give it, the more tools and access you can give it, the better it will be. But also, you don't want to overload it with so much that now it's confused about its role. And that's where I go back to success criteria. The best performing employees will come when you're like, this is exactly what you need to do to succeed. If you do this thing, you will be successful. And if you don't do this thing, you will not be successful. It seems overly stern, but it's actually incredibly kind because you're being very clear.

And you're setting, you're giving someone the playbook of like, here's what I need you to do to be successful. Most people don't take the time, though, to articulate what that is. And so the employee is just left to, like, fill in the blanks and interpret. And for a role that's, like, pretty confined and specific, that's probably okay. But for roles that are, like, really broad, I think that's where things can kind of go off the rails. Or you'll see AIs that just, like, start doing random things because they're like, I don't actually know what she wants me to do, you know? Hey, guys, it came to my attention that some of you don't know. We have a matcha brand.

What? A matcha brands? Yes. Some of my friends were talking to me, like, wait, you guys have a matcha brand, and it's called Sisters Macha. Gene and I started it in October 2024. And it's something that means a lot to us because I lived and worked on the farm where we source the matcha from. This Macha brand is our baby, and we are so passionate about it. And we really love everything that has gone into it. There's just so much love and passion that goes into our company, and we want to share it

with you guys. We source from a small family farm just an hour and a half outside of Kyoto called Wazuka is the name of the town. And it's absolutely incredible. We've visited the farm. We've worked on the farm. And we're so excited to bring it to you. So you can find out more at sisters matcha.com. That's sisters matcha.com. All righty. Now back to the show. In that same vein of being direct to your AI agents or the platform that you're using, one thing I really admire about you Cat is how direct you are. And I know you've had a series of videos recently of this concept go viral. And so the question I have is that you don't appear overly preoccupied with making every sentence sounds soft and agreeable. And I think in one of your past videos you said, I think I'm

too direct. And so can you talk a little bit more about kind of the mindset you have when you're delivering feedback for people who might beat around the bush, me, a little bit too much, whether you're talking to like an AI agent or also to someone on your team. Yeah. For me and my entire corporate, I worked in corporate for seven years before I started becoming a content creator. And my most common piece of critical feedback that I used to always get was you're a little too direct. Like could you just kind of like soften that a little bit? Like you're really just like very straightforward with people.

And it's funny that now it's seeming like people are really like, tell me more how I can be direct online. And you're like, well, what's the success criteria? Yeah, exactly. So it's just funny. Like it's all so relative, but I do think, especially like as women were told that we should like be very likable and like be soft and don't be too hard, whatever. So my mentality, look, this is my approach on it. I appreciate when people are clear with me because it shows that they think I'm smart and they respect my time. When you beat around the bush or you fluff things up, it makes me think you either think I'm stupid, I'm not tough, or that you just like literally don't care about my time because you're willing to fill it with all these words. So like I appreciate when people are clear with me. Yeah. And like we can use an example and I can show you how this sounds. And I'll show you how I actually do give feedback in real time.

Yeah. Because I think it illustrates how much like it feels scary to give direct feedback in the moment. But when you're receiving it, it's actually not that. It's like really not that bad. And I think when you internalize that, you realize it. So as an example, like, what's an example we could do? Like, let's say, like, Gene, I have to give you feedback because what would be something that, like, was a mistake. She blew up the AI agent.

She messed it up. She programmed it wrong. She, like, spent too much money on credits or something like that. Like, you didn't put a credit limit, and so you, like, spent $1,000 on credits when you were up at 3 a.m. Because you only use it after midnight. Yeah. So the software to do this would be like, hey, Jean, do you have a second? Yeah.

So, like, I know you probably didn't mean to do this and like it's totally not your fault or anything like that. But the thing is like I did kind of like sort of notice that there was like that thing with the credits that happened and just like I'm sure it was an accident or things like that. But it's just really important because like, you know, we only have so much money and we have to like be really conscious of that. So could you just like be really careful next time and that kind of thing? Is that okay? Yeah. Okay. I'm exaggerating a little bit. But we. That kind of sounds like how I do. Talk. Fuck. All right. What was your impression of that? Oh, it was so soft and kind of annoying. And I was like, damn, I sound like that.

Okay. So here's how I might deliver something. I'm scared. I'm scared. I'm scared. I'm scared. Okay. Wait, you oversped the credit.

Yeah, you didn't do anything. This is made up. This is a hypothetical scenario. I didn't do anything. $1,000. Jean, do you have a sec? Mm-hmm. So listen, I saw the bill was $1,000 for credits last night.

Did you see that? Yeah. Yeah. We have to be really careful about those credits and not spend them. Do me a favor. If you notice that it's going to go over again, call me because even if it's late, I can help you work on that. Otherwise, we can't have that happen again. And if it does, we're going to have to have a conversation. Do you have any questions? No. Okay. Thanks. Keep up the great work. You know, something like that. That sounded really good. I'm kind of improvising. I could have done that better too. But whatever. In the moment, it's just like I mean, it sounds markedly better than the first one anyway. Right. Yeah. Right. I think it's like it's kinder. It's clearer. I'm like, Gene, you're smart. You know that one's a mistake. You didn't mean to do it on purpose. But like if it happens again, like, that's going to be an issue. So like, just please don't let it happen again. Yeah. You know, the other thing I would probably incorporate that I didn't do that time was like, let me in. Why'd that happen? You're not stupid. Something must have gone wrong. Like, let me in. What happened there? And just like let that person respond and react would be the other thing that I would probably incorporate. I love it. Yeah. I need to watch this over again. It's not a script, but it kind of is so that I like remove the fluff and also the beating around the bush. Yeah. Yeah. There's also a thing there too of like you're reacting to how that person's reacting. So Gene is kind of like, yeah. So I'm not going to like be super hard on her because I can tell from her body language that she already gets it. So that's even more where I would lean on the thing of like, I just talk to me like what happened, what went wrong? I think like taking the emotion out of it and showing your team that it's like, you're smart. This was obviously a mistake. And like coaching them on how to just like use words to talk through it and not like, I'm going to bite you because you like, fuck. up or something. Yeah. It's also like a culture thing. Showing people that like it's okay to admit you made a mistake.

And in fact, especially like for the people I work with, I'm like, you better own up to making a mistake because the worst thing you can do is brush it under the rug or pretend it didn't happen. That's like non-negotiable. You can't do that. If you're not going to take accountability, you can't work at CatchyPT. Okay. So I thought we would close out this episode with a fun section, which is going to be called roommate revelations. We've never done this before. And I don't know if we'll ever do it again. But one thing we hadn't really publicized is that we were roommates to for a week in the south of France for Cannes.

We sure were. And I thought it would be fun if we went around and we each talked about something that we learned from each other, that you can only really learn by living with someone for a week. Okay, sounds good. So I can start it off with something kind of just like light and fun. So what I learned from you, a best practice, is that when you go to a new city, you buy an ice pack and you leave it in the freezer and you use it to help depop. which is so genius because I would sometimes use. She's like puffy in the morning. Yeah, like, you know, people are, you know, and it feels good.

So I would sometimes take like spoons and put them in the freezer if you need to use them in a pinch. But the ice pack, it's really thinking ahead. I specifically let the record show. I specifically do that for tan. Because my, I don't do that in every city I go to, but I appreciate that. My sleep schedule gets so buffed at Kampilines. Yes, if you're flying. That I'm just, this is a wash.

So, yeah, having an ice pack in the freezer. When I wake up, I can just sew it on my faces. And you left that ice pack, and now it's at our house. You took it home? I think we just grabbed it. Oh, that's great. That's awesome. I think my roommate revelation, I just loved, like, living together for a week because

it just felt like girlhood. It felt kind of like sorority because I feel like you're-serrity, sorority. Seri because Gina and I lived together, but like when you're living at home, like, you try to keep things in order and like your mental space is kind of like, oh, I want things to like look nice and whatever. I think it was just like a tornado was in our Airbnb just because it was so crazy in Cannes.

Yeah, it was wild. Right? There was like and I say this with love and like I contributed to it. There was like food at like 1 a.m. There was like makeup everywhere. There was my clothes everywhere. My lash my eyelashes is on the floor. But like it just felt like girlhood. And I don't know. I mean this wasn't really a revelation

but I just loved living with you in that week because it was just so fun that we can come together like after a big event. and kind of debrief together and be like, what did we learn, like, what happened today, especially because we had different schedules. And I think maybe my learning is that, like, when you go to a big event, like, find people who you're comfortable with and you want to see when you go home and you're in your pajamas and you have no makeup on your eyelashes on the floor, like, just like hang out because so much is going on

and you want to find an ally, a friend that you can kind of debrief with at the end of the night. I love that. Yeah, I think mine would be. I really loved witnessing your guys' sister dynamic because I feel like on the podcast and everything you guys post online, obviously you guys are super warm towards each other, but there's also an element of polish. But it was really fun to see you guys with the eyelash half hanging off and like in the oversized t-shirt. And you guys like, I think one night you had ordered like really late night like halal or something. And it was like three in the morning and we were all scarfing down

food at like the plastic kitchen table or whatever. And just your dynamic. I think, Gene, you were like, oh, I don't know. It was something where it was like, are you going to eat that? Yeah, I'm done. Okay. And you guys were like finishing each other's sentences while like sharing the food that you like, you knew she was going to want so you saved extra for her. And like it just made me think of me and my sister.

We have the same age gap that you guys do. And so it made me think about her and just I think witnessing your guys dynamic was great. And seconding the idea that having people to come back to and debrief with at the end of the night was so clutch. Like I wrote down things in my notes app from that conversation that I have not stopped thinking about since can. Oh my God, send it to me. I will. I totally will. They're like direct quotes from you, and it made me really, really, really want to film it next year. Yeah. Like, I think we should live together. First of all, we're staying in a hotel. Fuck that Airbnb. Oh, my God. Okay. It is the dustiest air living in the world. But like literally dusty. Oh, and mind you,

$15,000 or whatever the fuck. You know what I mean? Like, it's a bajillion. So it's a bajillion dollars. But I still think we need to pay two bajillion dollars and stay in a hotel next year because that shit was dusty. And we're going to film the whole thing because those conversations, I feel like that's the, it's like the nugget of wisdom that you have when you're like half sleep deprived and you're in a full beat, but your hair is in a bun and you're like eating McDonald's at three in the morning. That's the conversation that I want to capture and share with the world next year on like the real post-Candy brief. In. In. So. Yeah. Yeah. It could be a whole podcast episode end of itself. Yeah. There's so many things we talk to. Tiger Sisters from Cannes. Come on.

We'll do it. We'll run it back, run it back. That should just be a podcast in general. We only film it at 3 a.m. and we're eating fast food while we do it. It'd be impossible to book guests or really easy because no one's busy at that time. Awesome. Thank you so much, Kat for joining us. It's so fun. Yeah. And for everyone watching and listening, where can they find more of your content, more about Cat Labs, if they want to get involved? Yeah, what are your socials and websites that you can share? Yeah. You can just look me up on Instagram if you just look up. cat gpt you'll find it um or you can go to ask catgpti.com and where can we find physical phones yes you can buy a physical phone um physical phones.com or look up physical phones on instagram it's all the same thing you'll see it thank you okay thanks guys and don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter the link is in the description of the episode and if you enjoy this episode please rate us

and also subscribe thanks we'll see you next time tiger fam bye Bye.