Tiger Sisters - How to Survive a Stock Collapse: What Founders Get Wrong About Going Public | Dave CEO Jason Wilk

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

Thank you SoFi for sponsoring this video. Sign up here: https://www.sofi.com/TigerSisters  What does it take to keep building when your company loses 98% of its value publicly? Jason Wilk knows firsthand what it feels like to live on the financial edge. Before building one of the biggest names in fintech, Jason was overdrafting his checking account while trying to survive as a young entrepreneur. Today, Jason is the founder and CEO of Dave, the fintech company helping millions of Americans avoid overdraft fees and access short-term credit in a smarter, more personalized way. But the road to success wasn’t smooth. In this episode, we chat with Jason to understand what it actually takes to survive as a founder when the market turns against you, why mission-driven companies endure, and how AI is completely changing the future of banking and credit.Tune in for tactical lessons on:✅ Why the best businesses start with a personal pain point✅ What it’s like to watch your company’s stock collapse 98%... and then recover✅ The mindset founders need to stay calm during public failure and market chaos✅ Why “growth at all costs” stopped working in tech and fintech✅ How AI is transforming lending, underwriting, and access to credit✅ Why traditional credit scores may become less important over time✅ Why Jason believes discipline, patience, and self-belief matter more than credentialsThis episode is a masterclass in resilience, founder psychology, financial innovation, and what it really takes to build through uncertainty. We hope you enjoy! Timestamps:00:31: Episode intro 00:46: Intro to Dave01:20: What shaped Jason the most as an entrepreneur 02:15: What’s behind the best companies? 03:50: Jason’s origins in fintech and early Dave days 06:10: How Jason built self-belief (and maintained it)07:50: How he dealt with Dave’s stock collapse10:07: Going public via SPAC (Special Purpose Acquisition Company)14:38: How to lead during a crisis 17:59: Where Jason sees the biggest opportunities in AI and fintech22:42: What should founders in fintech learn from Jason’s challenges with Dave?25:50: For someone who feels stuck financially, what should they do RIGHT now?26:11: Mark Cuban’s all-time financial advice 27:10: “Mild and Wild” Questions31:11: Closing thoughts🐯👯‍♀️ We’re the Tiger Sisters — your Wall Street & Silicon Valley big sisters Decoding Money • Power • Love✨ New episodes every Monday | Shorts all week ✨💌 Want to partner with us? Sponsorships: [e-mail] trust us?▫️ Cherie Brooke Luo — 100M+ views demystifying tech, finance & MBAs▫️ Jean Luo — ex-Goldman Sachs, ex-Snapchat exec, 50+ AI patents, startup investor▫️ Together: 4 Ivy League degrees • built billion-dollar products • two startups — decoded for youWhat you’ll get (and keep):▫️ 🚀 Ivy League cheat sheets — no $250K tuition▫️ Personal finance playbooks (salary, investing, negotiation)▫️ Networking scripts behind $100M+ deals & job offers▫️ Real conversations with CEOs, operators & investors▫️ Mindset resets — clarity without the pricey coach▫️ Systems for career, money, and long-term growth💛 LET’S CONNECT~ CHERIE ~Instagram — /cherie.brookeTikTok — /cherie.brookeSubstack — cherieluo.substack.comLinkedIn — /cherie-luo~ JEAN ~Instagram — /jeanluo_LinkedIn — /jeanluo👉 Hit Subscribe & tap the 🔔, then leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review on Spotify & Apple Podcasts. It takes 10 seconds and makes a massive difference in helping new people discover Tiger Sisters.🛍️ Items:🍵 Sisters Matcha — www.sistersmatcha.com🌀 Everything else — https://amzn.to/3z0dx5b

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free of charge. BetMGEMGEMP operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. If you're a dedicated entrepreneur willing to work seven days a week, you can learn a lot pretty quickly. We've made a lot of mistakes in the first part of the business as well, but here we are today disrupting a major industry with a guy that had no experience. So anyone can do it. I'm Sheree. I'm Gene. I'm Jason.

And we're the Tiger Sisters. We are the internet's Wall Street and Silicon Valley Big Sisters. And we're a top 10 business podcast on Spotify where we talk about. about money, power, and love. Most of us know what it feels like to stress about money. Overdraft fees, not having enough cushion, or just feeling like the system isn't built for us. Jason Wilk saw that problem up close and decided to fix it. He founded Dave, a fintech company based on a simple idea, to help people avoid overdraft fees and to access small dollar loans without the usual barriers. Under Jason's leadership, Dave grew into one of the fastest rising

names in Neo-Banking. They went public, faced a dramatic stock collapse, and is now staging one of the most impressive comebacks in Fintech. Today, we're talking about resilience, innovation, and what it takes to reinvent banking. Jason, welcome to the Tiger Sisters podcast. Thanks for having me. Yay! We always do that. We don't know why. So you've been an entrepreneur for many, many years, and looking back, what early experiences shape the way you think about money and business today. Well, I've always been a serial entrepreneur. Never had a boss my whole life. I was a, I guess I was a caddy growing up was my first job. But even then, that's sort of an independent contractor you're fending for yourself. And so I've always had to think about self-preservation because I've never had any anyone to rely on. No backstop of a job. I grew up in a middle-class family. There was no support there for me. I always had to have a job right after school. And I always had just an incredible amount of self. self-belief in myself to get there. And with that, I never wanted to go over my,

overset my means, make sure I never, and always had, always had enough money to survive. Yeah. So Dave is built on the idea of serving people who are often overlooked by traditional banks. So what personal values can you speak to a little bit more that drive you to focus on this financial inclusion? I think the best companies start when the founder has a real personal pain point that they're trying to solve for themselves. And for me, again, going back to not having that backstop, I was constantly overdrafting my checking accounts and trying to start my first business. And that pain of taking a $34 up to $100 per day in overdraft fees at your bank, where you're just trying to make ends of me, build your career, is incredibly painful.

And I never understood why banks had to charge such a high rate. But after I sold my first business, had a little bit of money to have more cushion to go for a big idea. I started to really dive deep into that problem to really disrupt banking. And at the core of it, you realize that banks, it costs them $300 per year just to maintain a basic checking account. When you factor in the bank branches, there are legacy tech stack. So if you're a consumer that's younger, thin file credit score, can't use a JP Morgan credit card or personal loan. The only way the bank can make their money back on you is by charging these high monthly fees and overdraft fees. I was sort of a victim of that.

So I figured if I could be persistent, build a digital first neobank that didn't rely on bank branches, build all the tech stack ourselves. You could build this highly scalable platform that would save customers millions of dollars on fees. And that's just how the business was built through, again, perseverance and solving a personal pain point. Yeah. And I remember your first business was something with golf, right? And then you kind of just sort of jumped right into building a neobank. That's kind of crazy, no?

Like, how did you have the confidence or you didn't have the actual, you know, background in doing that? So how did you go about doing that? That's right. I had no experience in banking or fintech. That was all brand new to me. And even if you look back and when we built Dave, so much of the underlying technologies that we were using today didn't exist. Bank partnerships, debit card processing, ACH process. ACH processing for small dollar lending really wasn't a thing.

We had to go convince the banks to work with us, have to convince all the processors to work with us. We really had to invent this category. And I think if you're just really passionate about something, you can learn anything. And you think about people get MBAs and two years of school, but that's a couple hours a day of classes. If you're a dedicated entrepreneur willing to work,

seven days a week, you can learn a lot pretty quickly. And so we made a lot of mistakes in the first part of the business as well. But it's such an amazing way to just kind of throw yourself in and learn by doing. And here we are today disrupting a major industry with a guy that had no experience. So anyone can, anyone can do it. Yeah. I think part of it is that you had the hutsba because you had already built businesses in the past, even though they were totally different areas. like you had built and exited businesses. So you kind of had that muscle memory maybe. That's right.

I think going back to my first real business, my college business was the little sports company, but it wasn't until I got into a white combinator from my second company where I was building a company, raising capital, meeting investors like Mark Cuban, to really build a real business. And you just learned so much about the processes to go doing that, hiring, firing, raising capital, growth plans,

going through the ups and downs of being an entrepreneur, that gave me such a amount of leverage on learning for the next business. And Dave was able to just get off of the races so much faster because I've already had success there. And I do find that in many cases, second time founders are much more successful, or at least their second business is much more successful than the first one. Yeah. I think you mentioned self-belief in the beginning. Is that something that you feel like was inherent in yourself or as a serious? entrepreneur, you had to build that over time. And did you ever question your self-belief? Never question my self-belief. I think part of it, I grew up playing golf, and that's a very

self-sufficient sport. You have to be willing to go do your own practice. It's not a team sport. It's very self-driven. I think a lot of the characteristics carry over into business and entrepreneurship. It's up to you to practice and get better and sort of a lot of weight is on your own shoulders. And so I think I sort of developed some pretty thick skin from 20 years of competition within golf. And when I wasn't good enough to go pro, which was my original goal is to be a pro golfer. It was a fairly easy transition to taking that same level of determination and grit into business. Determination, stoicism, maybe. Maybe.

Yeah. My goal this year is to break 100 in golf. She loves golfing. I love, well, I started recently. That's a great goal. Yeah. I haven't played 18 holes yet, but projecting from the nine that I have played, I'm at 48, so times two. The back nine is a whole, is a whole other game. We've got to tell her. You got to let her know. Just work on short game. Avoid mistakes and practice. Yeah. I'll get your recs for places to golf in L.A.

Definitely. Okay, so now we're going to get interesting. So talking about transition and leadership. So Dave went public, which was an incredible, like massive goal. and then you saw it stock collapse. So that's the kind of moment that could really break a company or a founder. So how did you personally stay steady through that whole storm? Well, I think first and foremost, I never started the company thinking it was going to be a public company. We started the business with a real mission to disrupt overdraft fees.

We didn't really know what that was going to look like. If you go back to the seed deck of Dave, we talked about the product roadmap that we thought we would ship, but it was never a here's how many years. to get to an IPO. It was really about just a disruption. And so I think from that perspective, we built a very mission-driven culture where we have values-aligned company. And so when the stock did drop, we got to really rely on the fact that we had a very clear mission and vision, which the company was going after, not to mention our values. And so we saw such little churn when the stock went down 98%. And so I think it's really important for founders. And I think

about their business that they do have a really strong mission. We have a very published vision mission strategy and even down to our audience of who we serve, which helps us guide the business. And great high stock price is just sort of a byproduct of the business doing well, but it's not everything because even when the price is going down, we were still helping millions of consumers buy gas and groceries. And that makes our team feel really great. So by turn, you mean the customer base stayed consistent, even though it's the stock price was volatile? Yeah, the customers had no idea that the stock had gone down. They're not owners of the Dave stock. I mean, no churn from our employees leaving the business.

And so I think most companies, I think if you didn't have a clear mission, you might see that. If it's a very financially motivated team you have, but we just had a really nice mix where the equity part of the story was a by byproduct of doing right by customers. Yeah. I mean, you seem to be a really like even keeled kind of guy. Were you like internally pissed? Were you like, why doesn't the market see our value? Like, why, what are they not understanding? Were you like, it's my fault because I'm not communicating it correctly to the market

and the equity analyst or like what were you thinking? Like bring us into your mind? Well, pissed from the sense of it was just poor timing. We had an opportunity to go out, go public earlier. I'm not mad at going public via SPAC. I think that's a perfectly reasonable way to go public. It really was the market fell out from under us before we had a chance to really build a solid foundation of investors in public markets. And that's so key because public market investors

are so different than venture capital. Most of your venture capital investors are looking for the exit door and you're trying to rebuild. And if you have to do that all in a very short time frame when interest rates are going up and everyone's selling down growth stocks, not a great place to be. So that part was upsetting. I think where we, back to me being even keeled, they made that help get us through it because you're never going to see me get super excited about the stuff, but you're also never going to see me get really down in any news either. And so I just really knew that if we kept focused and delivered on our growth plans, we would ultimately get there and investors would eventually see the story. I think that's when Imran was quite a big help for

us because when he came in and invested, we started to really unpack what is the sort of profitability story and look like for the business. And we really simple, that down to one clear metric, which was once the business grew to 2.1 million monthly paying numbers, that the platform would reach profitability. So every quarter we started just communicating our progress towards that. And once we hit it, the stock went up like 900% in that year. That was what the analysts were looking for. Yes. Yeah. That's right. So you were, yeah, you were able to sort of predict that and understand it, benchmark to it, and then build towards it and perform. That's right. That's pretty cool. And profitability was so different than what investors were looking for in 2021 and 2022. And it was kind of growth at all costs. Growth was far more rewarding than profitability at that time. But we did have to make our shift. And ultimately, when interest rates went up, any company losing money, investors sort of wrote them off to zero because they were worried about their need to raise capital and how dilutive and expensive raising capital would have been. Therefore, we had to get the profitability. That was the only.

only thing that mattered. And what's unique about Dave is we didn't have to do any layoffs to get there. We just focused on building our gross margins and again, getting that clear growth plan communicated to the street and everything else kind of followed too from there. Yeah. It seems like you were very methodical about it as opposed to being like, I'll show you guys. Yeah, we never have like I'll show you or I'll get back at you mentality. There was no one to point fingers too, right? You're looking at like tens of thousands of investors. It's such a macro-driven event. We couldn't really point too many fingers other than the investors that sort of sold early

before we had a chance to get our foundation as a public company. Well, you showed them. Show them. That's right. If I could say so. You could say so on Jason's behalf. Yeah, I'll say so on your behalf. So, Shari, how do you think about your checkings and savings account?

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not too low, like very even keeled, which is something. that I aspire to. When you're leading in the middle of a crisis, how do you decide what to share with your team, your investors, and your customers? Well, back to the customer perspective, all we cared about was making sure we were serving our members. The members didn't care.

As long as we were keeping the lights on for the business, that's what mattered most of them. And I don't think any customers ever wrote in asking, is the Dave stock going to ever recover? And so I think when it comes to the board and the team, You have to take a very common collected approach, really unpack what's going on. I think what's unique about Dave in the scenario,

though, is there was never any issue with our business. It was such a macro-driven event. It wasn't like we lost some big customer or we had some customer-churn problem. The business, it was better six months after going public than it was pre-going public at the value it dropped 98%. And so we never really could look ourselves in the face

or on the business, like what did we do wrong? obviously margins could be improved, but we always had a plan to improve margins, renegotiate our contracts. It just had to do a lot of that stuff on a more expedited basis to save the market capital of the business. But I'd say we were always barely common collective. So you were basically, you were always confident in the fundamentals so that it sounds like it made it easier for you to communicate with everyone because you were basing all of it on the fundamentals. That's right. But the downturn actually had some benefits to us as well. If you think about high interest rates, that meant that a lot of big banks were cutting off access to credit

for credit cards and personal loans. And so that brought to us a lot of customers that now can't get approved for traditional credit. So they start using our product, which was great. And obviously, Dave was one of the poster childs for successful fintechs in 21. And when you saw a business with 12 million consumers and a market cap of 50 million, the entire venture capital markets shut off for all of our smaller competitors. And so it actually helped create more of a moat for us at the top. And so we've seen a lot of bigger winners take more market share as a result of this very short-term fintech winter that we really grew out of. That's so interesting. It's like even though it hurt your market cap, it ultimately made your company stronger. Yeah, we just had to be

patient. But the patience was well worth what it's now turned into, which was more customers better positioning in the market and bigger moat. That's one of my weakest. You're one of your weaknesses? Yeah, patience. Unrelated yesterday when we were at the comedy. I don't know what she's going to say. No, at the comedy barbecue thing, you were asked,

like when did you last interview for a job, right? I thought that was hilarious. I was just like, do they? Wait, you were literally, you've never interviewed for a job. No. Because he's been an entrepreneur. I know. That's funny.

I was like he's asking that, like literally the worst person to ask that question to. Yeah, I try to answer that at the least, I don't know, offensive way possible. But, yeah, I was not the right person to ask that question. You're like, well, my first job, I was a caddy. So I worked for myself. He starts doing like. And then goes down. The dialogue.

Yeah. And next. Yeah. That was funny. So we have to ask you about AI. I'm just like, we're interested. Yeah. So you've leveraged AI.

AI and data in ways that traditional banks haven't. So where do you see the biggest opportunities for FinTech to reshape how people manage their money? Well, I think where we're really helping consumers of AI is around just better access to credit. So we really pioneered back in 2017 using customers' cash flow information to underwrite them for credit. Typically, banks are charging you a $34 fee for overdraft, very unintelligent approach, charge every customer of the same fee regardless of how much you overdraft.

your account. And so using the cash flow information gave customers who didn't have a high credit score or thin-file credit score the benefit to be approved just by the virtue of their paycheck and how much income and a solvency they have between paychecks. So carry that forward several years. We started to introduce AI as another way to analyze all this transaction data because we're started to generate billions and billions of consumer data points around how much they get paid, their employer, ATMs they go to. There's so many data points now. We have hundreds of features on our models, which we call Cash AI, which helps customers get approved for credit. And we've seen loss rates now get down to nearly 1% with our own proprietary model that doesn't use FICO

scores at all. So that's been a really exciting thing that we've really pushed a needle on, and we could not have not have done that without AI. How does the 1% compare to like an average benchmark default score? Like what is the average? Well, I think about Dave and our launch, our loss rate was 10 to 20 percent back when we were just using a basic rules-based model and the average size of our microloans, effectively, was $50. Now we have 1% loss rate with average loan size of over 200. So 4X the origination size and 90% better on the loss rate side. That's really cool.

What are some of the features that have surprised you that are like overweighted that you you didn't think would be a strong indicator or I'm just interested. There are so many, to be honest, but honestly, even just depending on where you bank, the types of merchants, the time at which you can buy food, like all these things can be really interesting inputs into your default behavior. Wow. The time at which you buy food. I can't say that as an exact feature of the model, but like that could be something

you could input into it in AI model at the company. Yeah. Have there been any interesting trends that you can share? I mean, other than just every time we ship new features in the model, it's gotten consistently better and better. I think for the last eight quarters in a row, we've seen steady loss rates just quarter after quarter, and it's just been a huge boon to the business. And because we're originating so much per quarter, nearly $2 billion per quarter at this

point, every 10 basis points of loss rate improvement does. really meet a lot for us in terms of profitability. And that was a major level we had to get to profitability faster. I think this model is really interesting. I'm like, I want to like dig into it. Send us code. We're interested in it too. And we're really excited about how we can take the same underwriting to get into other lending products too, because it is a really great way for people to get better access to credit and not just using FICO. More personalized. So you mean just like larger origination sizes, like bigger loans? And longer duration too. Right. Right now, the microcredit we're giving out is a due on your next paycheck date.

And so by nature of how fast the payback is, that tends to lead people to where they use it. And so it tends to be for gas, groceries, rent, things more like you're doing to smooth over your income. But if you wanted to buy an airplane ticket or books for school, you want a little more duration than your next paycheck date. And so I think we really aspire to service our customers in many different, many different parts of the credit spectrum. Would you ever turn the model itself into a product like B2B? We've been asked about that a lot. I think when it comes to the public market investor being very

specific on who we serve, which is a direct-to-consumer company, gets a little bit messier when we start to become a B-to-B business and how we should think about and talking to customers and to investors. I think right now, given we're still in this recovery mode, we still want to just get the valuation up up from here, we benefit from more and more investor clarity. I thought my question was so original. Everyone asked me that. Everyone wants some insight. I think another really interesting part of your experience is that Dave's entire experience

has become kind of like a real-time case study in startup risk and consumer protection. So what do you think founders and fintech leaders should learn from how your company navigated this regulatory challenge? Well, regulatory challenge from what perspective? Basically, like, all of the interactions that you guys have had with, like, the FDC and DOJ and, like, navigating that whole sort of, like, part of your history. Well, look, we do operate in a highly regulated industry. Regulators do ask questions of all people, especially when you're dealing with over 10 million customers like we are. I think you just have to be very mindful and very conscious at the end of the day that you believe in the products and services you're sharing. to your customers. And that's what we believe. And so at the end of the day, that's all we can really do.

Yeah. I feel like several times in this conversation, you've circled back to the customer, the customer pain point, the member need. And I can see how it's at the forefront and also like at the center of what you guys are working on, especially as you tell like, I guess the individual stories of like, you know, a student needing to buy books or people needing to make ends meet to buy a plane ticket. Those are very. individual moments. That's right. And to try and educate regulators who are used to legacy products, you know, it's not

always the easiest thing. If you look back to the first version of Dave, you can actually borrow money from us entirely for free. If you wanted to give us a tip for borrowing, you could do that. And so that was one of the reasons why regulators took an extra look at the business. Like, wait a minute, who would ever tip a financial institution? But when you peel back the layer of that, when you're dealing with you. with a customer that's on average paying $400 a year and overjet fees of their bank,

and then someone's now going to show up to their front door and offer them credit for free, it makes a whole lot of sense to me why somebody would offer up an optional tip, which on average is only a few dollars. Yeah. I mean, and your first job was largely tip space. Yeah, so I've got on tips. That's right. Yeah. A hundred percent tips. Yeah. Actually, it reminds me of when like Uber and Lyft first started, they were, the rides were technically free and everything was based on a tip. Interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah, that was back in the Bay Area. I think it was very short-lived. It was in like 2012 or 2013, maybe. I remember, yeah, we got into a lift and we didn't have to pay for it. Yeah. Well, you just pay whatever you want. And it was technically

tip. And we happened to also pair any tip. We would donate a portion of that to Feeding America. And we've given over $20 million of feeding America since inception. So that was also sort of near and dear to us that we give back as we're helping people too. And it's been an amazing model. But again, educating people on that not as easy given how unique it is. Yeah. I can see how the, I mean, when it's a very traditional industry and there's education around new models and different ways of thinking about it, I can see how that could be an uphill battle. Okay. So wrapping up, this is our last question. So for someone listening right now who feels stuck financially, maybe they're in debt or maybe living paycheck to paycheck, what's one bold step or maybe a power move that they

can take on right now to start shifting their money story? Well, take this one from Mark Cuban, it always says the best return on investment for people that are paid to paycheck is to cut down on expenses. That's it. It's not some magical investment or crypto token you're going to go by. It really is a lot of cutting out of expenses. It is so amazing we see in our customer data because when people connect their checking account to us to get approved for our extra cash product, we can see their checking account information. And they are spending $400 a year in bank fees. Like, that's a good place to start.

And so I'd say that's also a major return is if you can just, yeah, save 10, 20% of your expenses. If you can, that's a great place to start. I like that. That's very practical. It's very tactical. People don't really say that. Usually they come with like investment advice or something. Yeah.

But you have to start with managing. That's right. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Awesome. Okay, so now we have a fun little segment. All right.

It might get spicy. Watch up. Okay, so we have these fortune cookies that have questions inside. We have both mild and I'm holding wild. So you can choose one of each and they're kind of ice breakery, but yeah. All right, cool. You're ready? You want to start with, this is mild.

All right. All right. And then this is wild. wild. And we don't know what the questions say. Yeah, we don't know what they are. So we're going to be just as surprise as you are. Let's see here. What's a compliment you've never forgotten? Oh, that's so nice. Was it the one that Mark Cuban just gave you publicly on stage to 150 people saying you're like a great investment? Yeah, that was a great one. He's been very complimentary of me, which has been awesome given he was like a mentor and I actually met him doing similar stuff to what you guys are doing

today. I had a little blog that I was running, trying to write about technology companies that I was really interested in. And he happened to be speaking at this TechCrunch 40 conference back in 2008, not to date myself. And he was on stage keynote investor and he went over the 10 ways to get him to invest in your company. Because at that time, he was pre-Shark Tang, but he was starting to try and do more deals. So I wrote this blog post on my small little blog that I had. And it got a lot of views. I emailed it to him because he gave the whole crowd his email address.

And that's how we started our relationship. And I started bothering with different ideas from that point forward. And ultimately ended up being the first check in my business. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's cool. I love that story. But yeah, compliment.

Let's go with that. Yeah, to have one of your great mentors compliment you on stage at a great event. Did I just give you that one though? I did. You did. That's okay. We still have the wild. We won't say anything for wild. I'll zip it. Organic. Have you ever been undone by a compliment? Undone as in like offended by? Oh, maybe offended. I was going to be like frazzled or like, or like so pleased that you like, yeah, shooketh. I mean, I just had my 40th birthday party. Happy birthday. Thank you. And one of them. One of them. my dear friends got up and he said that he hopes his kids can grow up like me. And I thought that

was one of the most amazing things that someone's ever said to me. Yeah. That's great. That's so lovely. Yeah. Oh, that's incredible. You were undone. I was. Completely undone. My wife also gave an amazing speech of that wedding, or not wedding, a birthday party. Sorry. See, I'm undone right now. Just thinking about it. Yeah. Do you want another wild one or was that too tame or? Up to you guys, sure. He's addicted. Here's another. He's wild.

Because it ended up being kind of the same as the mild. Yeah, it was like related. I don't know how those. What's your favorite form of destruction? I don't know why. This is so funny. Let's see. So I recently was on a summer trip and shot my first shotgun doing like clay, clay pigeon shooting.

So fun. Where were you? In Yellowstone in Montana. And I was like a day. because I went 30 for 30 on the clays. And so now I get back to LA, which is not really known for being a gun heavy place, but I've gone clay shooting several times since getting home. Wow.

Like a new little hobby. You're like, I have to prove to myself, it's not beginner's luck. Yeah. And it kind of was. Yeah. But nonetheless, it's still a pretty challenging sport. Yeah. I love skied shooting.

We had a club and my undergrad called Bait and Bullet. And I was a member of it. And we just did a lot of skeet shooting. Yeah, it's fun. I like the clay's. I would never want to kill like an animal. But I do think the sport of shooting the clays is actually quite unique. And it's an Olympic sport too.

Yeah. Something to aspire to. That's right. Instead of golf. Exactly. Yeah. Pretty similar to golf. Yeah.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks so much. Great questions. Really appreciate it. Okay. You guys have told us that you love our stats.

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