Tiger Sisters - I'm 42. If you're in your 20s watch this (ex-Palantir genius who sold companies to Apple & Discord)

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you're not actually putting yourself in a position where you might fail, you are fundamentally capping your potential. I've failed in so many ways. I'm trying to pick one that actually makes sense. I think a lot of life is micro failures. And as soon as I started caring no more, it really opened me up to the possibility that maybe I needed to change something. Or actually, maybe that no is a gift. Like, that's really powerful. And that's not just about career.

Starting point is 00:00:26 Like, that could be about raising kids or dealing. with school or like your own love life, figuring out that someone saying no today might be better for you is actually really powerful. My ex who wants to get back together, but I don't want to get back together. We're going to cut that out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah. Well, no, exactly.

Starting point is 00:00:45 Like, take the no right off into the sunset because you're going to find a better, yes? Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. I was actually brought by Gene for emotional advice. Yes. I knew the questions were coming. I pep-ta.

Starting point is 00:01:00 This was a planned action. Who is the cybersecurity expert and serial entrepreneur who sold his companies to both Apple and Discord? In this episode, we have a conversation with the super high energy John Redgrave. I'm Gene. And I'm Sherey. And we're the Tiger Sisters. In this season of the Tiger Sisters, we're interviewing business leaders, CEOs, CEOs, CEOs, entrepreneurs, and investors.

Starting point is 00:01:39 And right after the interview, Gina, go through our takeaways. What are our key learnings that we're sharing in kind of like a business school case study method? And we'll get to the interview right after this break. Hey guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on sisters mancha.com. We have sweatshirts and t-shirts that we designed yourselves. Go check it out. And please rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. These ratings are so important for the distribution and survival of Tiger Sisters podcast. Thank you for your support. So could you please introduce yourself to the audience? Yes, I'm John Redgrave. I am the founder and GP of DTX Ventures. I have one other partner who is running it with me. And I'm an internet entrepreneur. I've built and sold two machine learning companies, one to Apple, one to Discord, and was an early employee at Palantir. Incredible. And so we have a few icebreaker questions. These are a little bit rapid fire. So first one is what podcast are you listening to now?

Starting point is 00:02:36 Darknet Diaries is a podcast about the cybercrime world and all of the different cyber attacks that have been experienced and it's all about red teaming and it's very intense but I've operated in that world before so made sense for me to check it out. I'm probably going to give it up though and switch to like smartless or something like that. Oh I love smartless. Yeah, it's great. A very different niche though. Totally. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:03:03 Next question is when you were a kid, were you a kid, were you? a rule breaker or a rule follower? I was a rule breaker for sure. Yeah. Always have been trying to teach my kids not to be rule breakers, but it's hard when I've always been a rule breaker, but I think that's what makes me a good entrepreneur. Even now you're a rule breaker.

Starting point is 00:03:21 I try to follow some rules, but I think rules are generally put in place to stifle innovation. So I actually am a big believer in trying to figure out which rules are meant to be broken and then going and breaking you. I love that. Very mindful. Mindful rule breaking. Mindful rule breaking.

Starting point is 00:03:39 I'm going to take that. Okay. So now jumping into our main questions, I'm 29 now. What advice would you give to your 29-year-old self? Oh, wow. I think the number one piece of advice I give myself is take risks sooner in life, take the leap sooner. Career risks?

Starting point is 00:03:59 Career risks. No, I think just generally like risk in life. I think people, you know, especially people who are type in, They tend to not take as many risks as they could because they have a fear of failure. And ultimately, the only thing that's stopping you from actually creating the thing that you want to create in the world is yourself a lot of times. And so taking that risk, the second thing would be become an incredible storyteller. I think storytelling drives, well, you know this very well, but storytelling drives almost everything. And so for me, as someone who's built companies, storytelling helps me recruit people, helps me fundraise.

Starting point is 00:04:39 It helps me sell. And ultimately, I think, you know, a lot of our institutions and the way we create change in the world are built and we're able to do, to make change in the world because we're able to tell great stories. How are you able to build up your storytelling skill? I think a lot of it is mimicking great storytellers and watching people who have told great stories. And you can find that through music. You can find that through the arts broadly. You can find that in corporate America, believe it or not. You can watch people who have told great stories to incentivize change, to build new products for the world.

Starting point is 00:05:22 I mean, Steve Jobs is notoriously difficult, like a great storyteller. Amazing. I love how you're like supporting the liberal arts here too. Yeah, well, look, I mean, I think diversity of thought is so important. And if you're really narrow in your exposure to how people tell stories, you're only going to tell a story through a particular lens. And the truth is, like, we're all different. Yeah. And you need to be able to cater your story to the people that you're trying to incentivize to drive change with. Yeah, in order to be more persuasive. Exactly. I love that. And so, So the next question goes all the way back to your first job.

Starting point is 00:06:01 What was your first job and how has it impacted your work ethic? My first job, oh, wow. My first job was actually building a company. So I built a small Web Solutions business in the 90s, building websites for small and medium-sized businesses. And I think most importantly was just identifying a need and then realizing like no one else could do it except for me. And so it was either going to go or not because of my own effort.

Starting point is 00:06:34 And so I think figuring out how do you identify a need in the market and like how do you work to actually address that need is really important. I'm not sure how it's like influenced my work ethic. I think the biggest influence on my work ethic was my family and seeing how hard they worked for everything that they got. nothing was given regardless of circumstance. And so if you apply your best self, I'm thinking about what I tell my kids right now.

Starting point is 00:07:03 And every day we talk about if you work hard, like good things will come. Yeah, strong role models. Yeah, that's right. The next question goes to failure. And I love this framing of this one. What failure are you most grateful for and what has it taught you?

Starting point is 00:07:23 I think I failed in so many ways. I'm trying to pick one that actually makes sense. I think a lot of life is micro failures. And I was used to not hearing no a lot for a very long period in my life. And as soon as I started hearing no more, it really opened me up to the possibility that maybe I needed to change something about the way I was approaching problems, the way I was approaching people.

Starting point is 00:07:53 I'd say like one of the biggest failures. Gosh, I actually like can't come up with a lot, unfortunately. That's fine. Out of failure, it can't answer any the question. How about that? We can come back to it if something comes up. But I really like the idea of micro failures. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:10 It's just like different ways of getting rejected and then figuring out how to pick yourself up. Yeah. It's really important. Yes. Really, really important. Yeah. I mean, look, I think most people who have been very

Starting point is 00:08:23 successful in life. I'm not counting myself as one of those people. I'm just generalizing here. Like you you see past all of those failures because you just totally intercept it in your mind as, oh, this is just like something that I turned around. Yeah. And so you focus on the thing that you learned instead of the mistake that you made. Like that's such an important framing. Yeah. To actually go and achieve something in the world. Yeah. Right? It's like I love people who can just run through a million brick walls no matter what's put in front of them, it's, it's okay, great, that's an obstacle. I'm going to go through it. I'm going to go around it. I'm going to go over it. Yeah. And it's not even like framing it as a mistake, but yeah, like,

Starting point is 00:09:08 what are the learnings because that failed? Yeah. Yeah. Right. And like humans learn more from failure. Yes. Then they do from success. Yes. Like, we know this. And, you know, there are many studies that are proven this. And so I think, this again goes back to the point about risk, if you're not actually putting yourself in a position where you might fail, like you are fundamentally capping your potential. That's powerful. One of my GSB professors, Joel Peterson. Yeah, I love Joel. Joel's amazing. He was basically like the biggest problem for you students, you GSB students, you haven't failed enough. And he's like, you guys have gotten through, you know, amazing schools and amazing opportunity has been the top 1%.

Starting point is 00:09:55 You don't know what failure is like. Right. And until you do, like, you know, we're struggling in a different way, not knowing what extreme failure and looks like. Yeah. So I also took a class from Joel and really appreciated him. And I think, you know, having gone to the GSB, like you realize that most people haven't experienced failure until I started going and building companies, that's when I really

Starting point is 00:10:21 really experienced. And it's like hard to think about it as failure. Maybe that's why I was struggling to answer the question because for me it was more about like, okay, someone said no to me. Like how do I how do I figure out how to get them to say yes? Or actually maybe that no is a gift. Right. And recognizing the person said no to you today may open up a yes from someone better in the future. Like that's really powerful. And that's not just about career. Like that could be about your personal life, whether it's raising kids or dealing with school or like your own love life, like figuring out that someone saying no today might be better than for you is actually really powerful. My ex who wants to get back together, but I don't want to get back together.

Starting point is 00:11:05 We're going to cut that out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Well, no, exactly. Like, take the no right off into the sunset because you're going to find a better, yes. Yeah. Amazing.

Starting point is 00:11:15 Oh, yeah. I was actually brought by Gene for emotional advice. I knew the questions were called. A pep-top. This was a planned to actually. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what is a hot take or belief that you have that no one else in your industry has? Oh, gosh. Then no one else in the industry has. Okay. I've got a couple hot takes. Here we go. Like a smile on the right. Yeah. Okay. So I don't know that, I mean, Chris, Lahain had this take, but like I still think it's a pretty hot take, which is the U.S. is ahead of China in particular on all things AI by at least six months. I think it's a very hot take. I think you talk to your average person in America and they're like either scared of AI or like they're scared of China or they're scared of the combination of those two things. But most people don't realize that like we suck at regulating technology in the U.S. And therefore, it actually ends up accruing some advantage. And then we, you know, everything else told, like we kind of net out on talent. But I think that's a hot take.

Starting point is 00:12:27 The next question is on public speaking and public speaking tips. So you've spoken in public a ton and perhaps had some media training. And so for people watching this and who want to be a better public speaker, what is some speaking tip or media training tip that you've gotten that you would like to share? I have done a lot of public speaking. This is probably the most nervous I've actually been. Public speaking, no, I don't know. It's the camp, the ring lights and everything like that.

Starting point is 00:12:56 I don't know. It's like maybe it's on social. You did say it's your first ring light. It is my first ring light. So I've done a front line special. I've like gotten grilled by governments. So I think it's just me. Yeah, hard ball.

Starting point is 00:13:09 Yeah, hard ball. Hard ball. Yeah. I think there are two really important tips because I've been through a lot of media training and I've dealt with very, very aggressive interviewers and I've dealt with very aggressive government officials all over the world.

Starting point is 00:13:28 Number one is it's your message. You always can stay on script. And so you need to know the core talking points that you want to get across and everything that someone asks you can be bridged back to your core talking points. How long it takes you to get there is a different question, but it always can be bridged back.

Starting point is 00:13:51 The second thing is to try to remain calm, take deep breaths, like be cool under pressure. Even if you're sweating through your jacket or sweating on your forehead, it's like just remain calm because as soon as someone actually senses, hey, this person's really nervous or, man, their voice. is really shaky or their hands are shaking, right? My hands are not shaking. Good, good.

Starting point is 00:14:18 Then it just erodes your message, right? Because it comes across as you're not confident in what you're saying. And confidence is the key. And then the third thing is reps. Yeah. Do tons of reps. Yep. Here's a hack.

Starting point is 00:14:37 So if you're prepping for an interview, take all the questions that you think you might get asked, put them into chat GPT, pull it up on your phone and say, write me 20 to 30 questions that I might get asked by this interview, or whether it's for an interview with a company or for a media or going into a speech where you have to do Q&A and then talk to chat GPT and make it ask you those questions. And actually, like, gives kind of good communications feedback. Yeah. The comms firms of the world should be scared.

Starting point is 00:15:12 Or like tune it up a little bit. Like give it to me even tougher. Yeah. But that's exactly what I did. Yeah. When I was prepping for things is I would go in, I do the media prep with former investigative reporters. And then I'd like sit with chat GPT and just talk to it on my car rides to work. It's kind of an amazing way to use AI to make yourself a better public speaker.

Starting point is 00:15:36 Yes. Because if you can answer questions more succinctly than what I'm doing right now. then like that's really powerful. My favorite part about chat GPT is giving it input and asking it for a grade. So what if you give it a response and be like, rate my response one to ten? How do I do and how do I improve? Yeah. And even better, you could like train your own custom GPT using, you know, a media prep deck,

Starting point is 00:16:03 which you can easily find online these days, feed it in and then say, now grade each of my answers. tune the way that I actually communicate this specific piece of information. I love it. The answers are all out there. You just got to do it. You just got to do it. Just got to do it. Yeah. Part of it is people are scared. Right? Of just showing up, getting in front of the ringlight, getting up next to a microphone. Not you though.

Starting point is 00:16:28 I mean, kind of stared, apparently. We have two more questions left. The last question is on travel. And so just any recommendation of a city or place that you like to visit when you're taking a break from work? I do a lot of staycations, so I recommend Dallas, Texas. There's lots of amazing things to do here. Lots of people from all over the world coming here. The economy is great here, the Crow Museum, lots of amazing barbecue and food.

Starting point is 00:17:00 Other than that, it's like, I love the Cayman Islands. That's my happy place. That's where I go with my kids. Build sand castles. The water's amazing. There's a stingray city. Yes. It is majestic.

Starting point is 00:17:12 Yes. I highly, highly recommend the Cayman Islands. I scuba dive, scuba dove the first time in the Cayman Islands. And what a treat, because it's not like that anywhere else in the world. No. I mean, it's so crystal clear. And neither of my boys want to get in the water when they can't see underneath them. And so the Cayman is just like a perfect place.

Starting point is 00:17:32 No lakes for them. No. Lakes in Texas are all manmade. And so, you know, go to Minnesota. for the lakes. Yeah. And the last question we have, this one is related to conference, 2024. And so what are you looking forward to most about conference 2024, or what are some aspects that you find really valuable? I mean, I love Iman on first and foremost. I think he is such just like a warm human being who cares deeply about the people around him. And he also has,

Starting point is 00:18:04 I feel very lucky to be one of his friends because he has so many amazing people. people who are at the cutting edge of each of their industries. And so for me, conference is fundamentally about spending time with each of those people, getting to know them, breaking bread with them, right? Like that, it's really amazing when you can get outside of like the core business context that you might find yourself in and just be able to say, hey, how do you know Imron? Like, it's an easy icebreaker. I'm also very interested in how people are talking about the common,

Starting point is 00:18:38 of AI and national security. And so I really loved spending some time with Chris Lehane after his talk today. But there's so many fascinating people who are thinking about the future. Yeah. And to me, like, that's what really matters is investing in the future. I love it. It's the people. It's the people.

Starting point is 00:18:59 Awesome. So those are all the questions that we have. Nice job. All right. You've got really killed. That was fun. Yeah. What a fun conversation with John.

Starting point is 00:19:08 John has the best energy. The best energy, honestly, the best personality. It was just, like, so engaging and alive. Yeah, like, you just want to, like, continue to hang out with John. And also, I feel like I could be his friend. Yeah. No, I think, I mean, I feel like John is my friend. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:19:24 But I'm sure he could be your friend, too. He's your friend too now. Yeah, he's my friend too now. There you go. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to this interview with John. We have our takeaways right after this break. Hey, everyone. Quick break to share something special.

Starting point is 00:19:38 Sisters Macha. We've launched limited batches of ceremonial grade, single estate, single cultivar macha, straight from the family farm Shari worked on in Japan. It's pure, authentic, and crafted with intention. Head to SistersMacha.com to grab yours before it sells out. Make matcha your daily ritual for lasting energy and focus. And we're back. We're back. Okay, so I want to jump right into my favorite takeaway from your conversation with John, which was when we asked him about public speaking advice. I thought he gave the best advice because it was the one, it was so well structured. Yeah. He gave like three top line pieces of advice. And then two, they were very actionable. And then three, he gave details on how to actually implement each of the actions. Like he wasn't

Starting point is 00:20:27 just like, oh, you could do this. He was like, sorry. He was like, oh, the way to do this is to actually type this exact thing into chat GPT, blah, blah, blah. Blah. But. But I actually want to touch on the points themselves because I feel like they're worth spending some time on. Totally. And also John himself is just like a really good animated speaker. He's so engaging. You just want to keep listening to him. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:50 I mean. Yeah. Like everything feels very conversational. Yeah. I think that might be his superpower. I think so. Yeah. And also I love that he's still so like humble, authentic, like honest.

Starting point is 00:21:06 Like he was joking with you. He was like, oh, it's my first ring light. And he, like, made it kind of seem like he was, like, nervous or like a noob. I mean, maybe he was, like, one percent nervous in some ways. But then he was like, yeah, like, I've done a frontline special. I've gotten grilled by very aggressive government, like, officials. Not by me, though. You know, sure.

Starting point is 00:21:26 You'll give him the hard balls. It's a whole new setup now with me. So many hard balls. Yeah, so many hard balls. But, yeah, that was a funny. I think, I don't know. if that happened on camera or off camera, but like, it was just like a funny little bit because like, oh yeah, it's my first ring light, but he's actually done like so many public

Starting point is 00:21:45 speaking appearances. I might have that effect on people. Hmm. Okay, the first piece of advice was he said, it is always your message. It is your talking point. And your job is to always stay on message and do whatever you need to do to bridge your answer back to your main message. And he was like, it might take a long time and it might be kind of like convoluted. But there's always a way to like find your way back to the main message. Yeah. That reminded me of like in presidential debates whenever someone is asking the moderators asking me the candidate a question.

Starting point is 00:22:28 Like sometimes the candidates won't even answer the question and they'll say whatever they want to say. And like people let that go because like we're following along with their answer, even though it didn't answer the question. Yeah. Or they'll be like, they'll be like, oh, like, what do you think about like the Los Angeles fires? They'll be like, oh, what a tragedy. But you know what else is really on fire? The state budget. Yeah. Like they'll say something like that and like bridge it back to like, oh, they wanted to talk about the state budget. They wanted to talk about like cutting taxes or I don't know, whatever it was. Yeah. So that's kind of what it reminded me of. Yeah. Okay. And then his second point that I really liked was stay calm and just take deep breaths and just

Starting point is 00:23:10 like work through and try not to show how nervous you are, even if you are nervous. And I like that because it's like very different from the first thing. The first thing is like kind of like what to do. And then the second thing is like how to be acting while you're doing it and like how to portray yourself. Yeah. So I thought that was like really good put together. And then the last one was just simple reps.

Starting point is 00:23:38 He was like lots of reps. As many as you can. And that must be why he's so good. I think to the second point, it's just it's hard to stay calm. But something that I do that's very, I feel like actionable that you guys can try. If you're doing like a public speaking thing or presentation is that like the thing that makes me the most nervous when I'm about to like speak. is that like my heart rate is beating so fast, but I, because there's a lot of adrenaline,

Starting point is 00:24:05 but like my body isn't in motion. Like there is a mismatch between my heart rate and like what my body is doing. Because usually if I'm like running or doing some cardio, my heart rate increases. But like I'm literally just standing there and my heart is pounding because I'm nervous and there's a lot of adrenaline. So something that one of my old bosses, Eric, used to say, is that before a big presentation, do like a two to three minute like warm up physical. warm up. Body pump. Get the body pump in. Seriously, to match your heart rate with like what your body

Starting point is 00:24:35 is actually experiencing. So he's just like do, you know, 10 jumping jacks, 15 like pushups or whatever it is to get your heart rate to match your body. I'm just laughing because isn't Eric like a super, super fit? Oh yeah. He's very fit. He's super fit. Obviously this this advice I feel like makes sense. And I've actually implemented it before. And it makes me feel better because I'm like, oh, I'm out of breath. And my heart rate is up. Like, it's a lot. it feels more congruous. Huh. Like physically.

Starting point is 00:25:03 But then are you sweaty? No, no, no. It's only for like two seconds. It's like only for like, you know, like two minutes. 10 jumping jacks basically. Exactly. Right before you're about to present. Because you're not like before you're going to present, you're like, oh, power pose.

Starting point is 00:25:16 Remember your key points. Do like 10 jumping jacks. But like not enough to be like out of breath. No. Okay. 10 jumping jacks. Yes. So I think that was a good way to like stay calm.

Starting point is 00:25:30 That's cool. never done that before really yeah maybe i'll try it let me let us know if you guys try it if it if it works for you related to public speaking i really liked when john talked about being more persuasive in storytelling like one of the pieces of advice that he had was that like when you are gathering like input and getting like different inspiration for ways to storytell it's helpful to have multiple like points of view and also multiple different storytellers that you're basically modeling yourself after. I thought that was really cool because like I listened to, you know, like iconic like Steve Jobs who's known to be like a really incredible storyteller. And also I look

Starting point is 00:26:17 at like a lot of tech leaders as well. But to be honest, that's like definitely one very narrow lens of what it means to be, you know, that type of storyteller. I think looking to other like leaders in history, like other people who've had different styles and presence. Yeah. Like, what Martin Luther King Jr. Or famously. Or like Winston Churchill. Like also like also very well-known.

Starting point is 00:26:43 Walter Mondale. Who's that? Oh, he was like the famous news anchor. Oh. Of the United States. Back when there were like three TV channels, he was like the guy. It's interesting. We're naming all men.

Starting point is 00:26:56 I'm like realizing that now. I like kind of want to pull out like another like a name of a woman in history who's been super I mean pervasive. Yeah. Everything that woman says is like gold, platinum and diamond. Yeah. Like it's amazing. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:17 She's a great speaker. I think there's a recent like Oscar speech that she gave over the last few years that people have. But just even when she says like even like tiny snippets. of what she says. Like, I don't know why, but she just is the face of, like, trust. Like, she'll say the same thing that a million people of other, a million people have said. Like, I just saw a clip where she was talking about GLP1s, such as, like, you know, Monjaro, Wagovi, Ozempic.

Starting point is 00:27:46 And she was like, what people don't understand is that it quietes down your thinking and you're not thinking about food all the time. And she's like, oh, this is what. what other people feel like. They're not just thinking about food every single minute of the day. It's only when they feel hungry. And, like, I feel like I've heard that same exact message many other times, but just the way she says it, she's an incredible storyteller.

Starting point is 00:28:13 I think, I mean, to that point, like, also, I think a lot of people who work in entertainment, like actors as well, probably are, like, very good speakers and storytellers as well. Yeah. I mean, a lot of times they're telling stories on behalf. of other people or on behalf of characters on behalf of the directors, the writers, the producers. So I guess it is a different way of storytelling. I think John Stewart is also a really good storyteller. Great at communication.

Starting point is 00:28:43 But to that point, Michelle Obama. Michelle Obama, getting very different types of storytelling can only help inform your own person style. Yeah. And I like that he even mentioned he was like music. right like liberal arts like these are all the different ways of storytelling that are not just like you said what we're used to today of like the apple presentation of like think different exactly um but yes that was also one of my favorite takeaways from him was just that like

Starting point is 00:29:20 what he explicitly said was his advice for people who are in their 20s and 30s is to learn how to become an incredible storyteller. And you can see that in him. Yes. He's an incredible storyteller. Who is the best storyteller that you know personally? I mean, honestly, a lot of them are the people that we've interviewed in this series. Yeah, that's true. Because the other thing we, like, haven't ever mentioned on this podcast is that we didn't give them these questions ahead of time. Nobody was prepped. Yeah. Like, they very much on the spot. Yeah, none of them, like, nobody knew they were going to be interviewed until the day before or for some people like 15 minutes before. Like they just kind of agreed, you know, to be interviewed pretty much on the spot.

Starting point is 00:30:09 Nobody had like PR people or like, you know, media training people that they ran our questions by. It was very organic. And so like you're getting them at their like least prepared. I think it also goes to show how reflective these people are too. because we asked them like, oh, what was your first job and what is it taught you? They like maybe like thought about it for like five seconds, but then they were able to like on the spot, like come up with something. But and by come up with something, I mean like probably have done lots of reflection ahead of time so that they like have this answer and they like know themselves. Well, yeah, but then also being able to communicate it in a way that is interesting to listen to and useful for our audience. and like compelling for us as the interviewers.

Starting point is 00:30:59 Totally. That is definitely something I want to get better at because I feel like sometimes, I don't know about you guys, but a lot of times like you have this like amazing narrative in your head, but then when you say it, it doesn't sound as like smooth as it was in your head. No, yeah, for sure. She laughed at me. Rude. No kidding.

Starting point is 00:31:22 But yeah, that's something I want to work on. But I think the podcast is good because they were getting reps on like basically talking extemporaneously. Totally. And the last takeaway in this conversation with John is when we talk about failure, very specifically he says that he wishes he had taken risks sooner. And then I think in the conversation like professional risks and he's like, no, personal as well.

Starting point is 00:31:47 And we also mentioned like the fear of failure specifically if you're very like high achieving type A. Yeah. You have gone to like a school and gone through life, the path, and gone to like, you know, these prestigious jobs. It's like if you haven't failed and been rejected, it's harder and harder to like seek out those failure moments. Interesting.

Starting point is 00:32:13 Okay, I just thought of an analogy that is very like visual and physical. Because like if you think about going through life, like as you move through life, you kind of like climb higher and higher typically. It's not like, you know, it's not all 100% linear, but, you know, it's like this and you're going upwards. And it's like if you haven't fallen down and failed, then like the higher up you are when you have your first failure, the more painful and like devastating it'll be and the harder to recover. I see that. I totally see that. And I think it's, we talk about it in some of our previous podcast episodes, like the idea of failure training, like in David Schim,

Starting point is 00:32:53 episode in this season. But I think the way that John puts it, I really, really like. He says micro failures. Uh-huh. And so, like, can you fail on a smaller level so that, like, when Jean said, if you do have a larger failure, you're more prepared internally and, like, mentally for, like, how to deal with it. Yeah. And then, like, your, your bones are more bouncy. Like, you know, when, like, little kids start to learn how to ski for the first time, they're just, like, bouncing off the ground when they fall. Like, it doesn't even matter. Yeah. You know, as opposed to like an older person who has more brittle bones. Yeah. So I would say like a takeaway, a very actionable one is to like ask yourself right now. Like what is the way that I can fail on like a small level like this week? What is something that I can do this week that I can try?

Starting point is 00:33:40 And because it's something that's a little bit outside of my comfort zone probably like it's going to be a little harder, more challenging, whatever it is. Like maybe there is a more potential to fail. And like like what can you learn from that? Yeah. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode of Tiger Sisters. Please remember to like, comment, and subscribe. And we will see you next time. Bye.

Tiger Sisters - I'm 42. If you're in your 20s watch this (ex-Palantir genius who sold companies to Apple & Discord)

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