Tiger Sisters - Networking 101 from Harvard & Stanford MBA Grads: EP 10

Starting point is 00:00:00 Have we ever walked into a room and been completely drawn into someone's personality? They were like almost kind of magnetic and so charismatic and you're like, what do they have and how can I have some of that? This episode, we're going to discuss how to talk to anyone. All righty. Let's dive in. Let's do it. Hi, I'm Jean and I'm Cherie and where are the Tiger Sisters? Welcome to the season finale of Tiger Sisters. Yay! I can't believe it's been 10 episodes.

Starting point is 00:00:44 Yeah, it went by really fast. Yeah, it went by really fast. I am excited about the evolution of topics. Yeah. Discovered. Yeah. I think, like, some of the more recent episodes have been a lot more, like, fun and not just, like, informative. And hopefully the audience is enjoying that.

Starting point is 00:01:04 Yeah. I think we've covered a lot of, like, professional stuff in the beginning. Yeah. Makes in some personal stuff. And, yeah, it's just been such an. amazing season. You've done really well. Thank you. I know. Thank you. My first season. Your first season, first time podcasting. Yeah. And 10 kind of just like flew by. Yeah. And I feel like I'm also just getting more comfortable with like speaking on camera and being

Starting point is 00:01:27 more candid and just being more like vulnerable and honest. I love that for you. Thanks. Okay. So before we go any further, please like, comment and subscribe if you have an already. We have such an amazing season two planned out. And if you haven't seen the season one episodes, like they, some of them, I honestly will say are so, so good. I'm so proud of them. Yeah. And then also, Gene and I read every single comment that you guys leave on our YouTube videos. And so if you have any suggestions, comments or questions, leave them down below and we'll respond to them and maybe even bring them into our next mailbag in our next season and episodes. Yes. So speaking of mailbag,

Starting point is 00:02:12 Mailbag. Okay. So the inspiration for this episode actually came from a mailbag. So Jamie Kohleron said, I would like to see the Tiger Sisters talk about how to talk to anyone and how to be a better communicator for the next episode. You got it, Jamie. You got it, Jamie. Does anyone get that reference? Yeah, it's from Full House.

Starting point is 00:02:36 Yeah. I don't know it. I dabbled. You watched Full House? Yeah, I had the biggest. crush on Uncle Jess. Oh my God. Everyone did.

Starting point is 00:02:44 John Stamos. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. It was like the definition of like 90s dreamy. Oh, for sure. Okay. I think a good way to start out this topic is to focus first on like work and career aspects of how to talk to anyone. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:00 And then we can, you know, devolve into whatever. His podcast might turn. But let's start with like, what are some tips you have for talking to older people? or more like senior people, meaning like leaders in the company and like execs or maybe even people you feel intimidated by. I feel like you're a really good person. This is a big topic because you can talk to anyone. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:27 Like I feel like it's one of your superpowers. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I think I really struggled with this when I first graduated because when you're like a 22 year old in the workplace and you're like, oh my God, so much of my self-worth is tied to what I say and how I present myself. It was really nerve-wracking, but I think just getting more repetitions in and getting more practice in talking to people who are older than you, who have more like years of experience

Starting point is 00:03:53 than you. And like getting those reps in really helps. But I think honestly, it's a mindset shift for me where you're just like, even if I'm talking to someone who's like five levels above me or the CEO of a company, at the end of the day, they are just a person. Yeah. And like if you can connect on a human to human level, like no sucking up, no like ass kissing. It's like how do you connect with another person and genuinely be curious in them and what their story is and what they care about?

Starting point is 00:04:21 Then I feel like that's where it becomes less scary. Well, on the topic of getting your reps in and like getting exposure, I feel like one of the ways you did that was through your internships. And at Borgon Stanley, I remember you interned there when you were in college. And one of your specific assignments was to interview all these like VPs and other sort of leaders at the company for the project that you're working on. You're making like an internal directory of information or something like internal resource director. Exactly. And as part of my internship, it was my like role, my job, my project to talk to a bunch of Morgan Stanley technologists and vice presidents in their very like specific domain. And a lot of it is just like asking questions being. curious. And then also knowing that you yourself have something to offer, I think that's like a comment I see quite often on social media. It's just like, oh my God, like, you know, I'm in high school. I'm in college or like I'm a new grad. Like talking to these people who are much more experience is kind of scary because like, what do I have to offer? Well, but so like when you were doing it, were you like, were you nervous? Or were you like, oh, it's just my assignment? Like I was told to do this. I was definitely nervous because I wanted to make a good impression. Like I didn't want to like sound like an idiot.

Starting point is 00:05:38 but I think before even talking to the person doing like a lot of research. Okay. And like every conversation, it goes well because I'm prepared. Like I've done research on the person. I know what their purview is. And it's not like I'm asking like, you know, level one questions that I can just Google. I'm asking level 10 questions that only this specific person in this specific domain would have the answer to. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:04 It's kind of funny because I feel like Shuri's corner. was like an evolution of like looking back on it now right like have you ever had that no I haven't that's what you do for shirri's corner so for shri's corner shiris other podcast that um is wrapping up its last season her other podcast was wrapping up its last season so she could focus fully on tiger sisters yeah she has interviewed some like true like titans of industry like people who are just like I don't know, like single name people kind of. Oh, yeah. In a way.

Starting point is 00:06:39 But you do so much preparation for that. Yeah. And that's when I think people don't see is how much behind the scenes goes into these. I mean, the podcast, obviously, but then also just having like one-on-one coffee chats with people. Yeah. Like never, ever go into a coffee chat like cold. Bare minimum is spending five minutes on their LinkedIn profile to know more about them. And that's like the bare minimum, I would say.

Starting point is 00:07:04 Especially if you're the person who is asking for the coffee chat and, you know, in the like power differential is asking for help. Yeah. I feel like that's a very good practical tip. Yeah. I think one of the most powerful ways to talk to anybody is to identify what your shared interests are or like even better like over time like cultivate some sort of like shared interests and share experience. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Like I feel like you have like so much. much to say about that. When I was in school, one of the big things that I did, and I would suggest that other people do as well, is like join clubs or get involved in groups where you can like find a common interest. For example, in the last few months of my time at Stanford, I helped organize, co-organize the Stanford Women's Golf Clinic. And it was just, you know, a few of us ladies where we got together and we created a three-week series to bring other Stanford women in business to go learn

Starting point is 00:08:04 golf together. And we got so much feedback from these ladies that they were like, this was amazing. I've never played golf before. It's so safe. It was just like a good environment. And then also like, for example, we had like a mini creator club at Stanford and it was just like common interest. And it's not just at school too. It's at work, right? And a lot of companies, they're different sort of affinity groups that you can join. And even outside of that, like some of the things that I've done is remember, I've created this with my friends, like this annual retreat with my HBS girlfriend's where we get together every year in Newport. It's about like 20 of us.

Starting point is 00:08:39 And we basically like have this weekend of like learning and growing together and like reconnecting and bonding. Yeah. It's like creating. You can like you can actively create these experiences where you can like bond with people and like get to know them better. Well, I think it also starts from like a. a shared understanding too.

Starting point is 00:09:00 Like we all have a common something. And then from there, you create the shared experiences where you dive in even deeper. And one way we were able to do this at Stanford DSV that I absolutely loved was going on trips together. Big proponent of traveling together to experience things in a new way. And speaking of trips, you may have seen that Shari and I recently announced our Trova trip to Japan together, which we kind of put together. because we wanted to create this opportunity to bond with and build community with all of you guys.

Starting point is 00:09:34 So you can find more information in the description in this video, but basically it's going to be Gene and I as the hosts of this trip. But we will definitely have someone on the ground in Japan leading us and guiding us through all the different points. We'll be in Tokyo and then also near Mount Fuji. And we'll have up to 15 people join us on this trip and we can't wait to spend time with you guys. I'm so excited because I've never been to Japan before somehow. But Shri has been and she's like a total, I feel like expert on Japan now because you've spent so much. Japan off fire.

Starting point is 00:10:09 Yeah. And so I'm like super excited to like get to know Japan and like experience it and also like have like her expertise and her personal experiences to guide us as well. And I just think it's going to be a totally magical experience. and I can't wait to meet you guys and to like get to actually spend time together face to face as opposed to just like messaging and like, you know, DMing and like responding to comments. Yeah, so excited for this and check out the link in the description for more details. Speaking of exposure therapy, I feel like another way that we had exposure therapy was just kind of the environment and neighborhood that we were in growing up.

Starting point is 00:10:52 So Shuri and I grew up on Long Island. Well, actually, I grew up in Brooklyn and then I moved to Long Island in the middle of fourth grade. I was born in Brooklyn. Yeah. And then Sheree moved when she was like, I don't know, three or four years old or something really young. But we grew up in what was essentially like a very white and affluent community. And so I feel like, yes, there were many, many times where I never felt fully comfortable because I was like, like one of one Asian people like in my,

Starting point is 00:11:28 not just in my friend group, but like in my entire grade, maybe one of two actually. But, um, and I always felt like I was very like defined by my ethnicity. But the like flip side of that is that I feel like I had to learn how to become very comfortable with people who were different from me.

Starting point is 00:11:51 Yeah. Um, yeah, I have like, I have, girlfriends who have told me who have grown up in California and they've like grown up with mostly Asian people and they're like, yeah, I just don't feel I like to this day, I still just, I just don't feel like fully, fully comfortable talking to white people like or as comfortable as I feel

Starting point is 00:12:12 talking to Asian people. So that's something I feel like never really gets like talked about. Totally. I mean, there's so much to dig in there. Perhaps with a therapist for us. Like, I loved, I have other higher priority. I know. We have other things to talk about it. Therapy. But underneath the surface, that is one thing. But yeah, I mean, there's both pros and cons.

Starting point is 00:12:36 Like, Gene and I grew up in a nice neighborhood, even though we didn't come from that world. We were very much, like, exposed to that world and exposed to, I know, the letter, like, behave. Yeah, that world as a person shows, the ways of speaking, the expectation. Some people would see that as a jury. big though for like oh you need a code switch i mean you know me i'm like the world is the world right are you going to exist in the world today and how can you change the world if you're not going to like be a part of it yeah and if you're not going to make yourself into a person of influence in the world today in order to affect change that's my perspective i agree with that but i also see the other

Starting point is 00:13:22 side as well. But I guess all of that to say, like, it was a really good experience to be exposed to that. So then we can kind of, yes, like looking back at the time, like, did I enjoy being like feeling alone and being bullied when I was growing up? Like, no. But now. Yeah. But now, now I like see the value of having been put into that situation. So maybe one takeaway out of all of this is that that wasn't something that we like opted into, but it is something that you can opt into. Like basically you can choose to put yourself into situations that are outside of your comfort.

Starting point is 00:14:04 So yeah, in order to kind of like learn more about different cultures. Yeah. And honestly, it just goes back to like how to talk to anyone. Like I think that is a strength if you're able to relate to many different types of people, especially if it's outside of the environment that you're comfortable with. and I think it'll be good professionally. It'll be good personally. It'll widen your world view.

Starting point is 00:14:29 And I think like, yeah, like talking to some, and this very specific stories, like, some of our Asian girlfriends who are not comfortable with it. Like, you can stay in the comfortable spot or you can like lean into the discomfort and like grow in different ways. And I would argue it would help your career to do so. Yeah. And one specific example I have of this is, or like one or like one, or like one. specific method you can do at work is you can seek out sort of like opportunities to interact with different people, especially senior people, if you feel nervous about connecting with or you don't know how to talk to them. Seek out opportunities to interact with them that are outside of your

Starting point is 00:15:08 typical like meetings or like super like straightforward interactions where you're like presenting to them or like, you know, not to like cut and dry work interactions. So like what's an example? When I worked at Goldman, one of the things that my group did every year, I don't know why, but one of the things that we did was we put together this like a holiday music video. And it would have access to it. No, but it honestly was so freaking good. It was like, I was like so proud of it. We like made ourselves like little awards for it too. But anyway, it was one of the things that we did. And it was like day to day, like we thought we, day to day like the work was so serious. Like everyone. And we literally thought we were doing God's work because that's what Lloyd had said to us.

Starting point is 00:15:57 Lloyd Blank Fine. Yeah. He was like, we're doing God's work. And I was like, yes, we are. Because I was like, 2021. And I was like, I'm doing God's work. And everyone took everything so seriously. But we had this holiday video.

Starting point is 00:16:08 And I like volunteered or was a volunteer told. I don't remember to become one of the producers. And so my job was to help like write the scripts. It was like an S&L thing to like write the scripts and like, help like direct and have and like make the MDs and VPs like lip sync to all these different songs you're like it's my job you have to lip sync Taylor Swift yeah and I would like give them these like costumes and it was just like so fun and it was a way to interact with each other oh I love that that was not work yeah but it was work but like it wasn't work no it was it was fun it was

Starting point is 00:16:47 silly and you're able to like bring a fun side out of the P's and MDs as well. Yes. And then they get to like see me for a person too, not just like a robotic minion. God in the machine. Codding the machine. But yeah. So like I would just encourage even like other like now that I'm thinking about it like other little things like we had this annual baking competition. And like me like you know me I am not a baker much less a cook at all. But for some reason, me and my friend, slash fellow first or second year, I don't remember which year this was, fellow first year. Christine, we were like, let's enter the competition together. And we made these sticky toffee pudding cupcakes.

Starting point is 00:17:35 I will never forget this. And we won. Yeah. I know. Oh, my God. No, he's not. I would have been shot that you want a vacant competition. But we like beat all of the like EAs and admins who had all these, like,

Starting point is 00:17:49 like amazing like passed down recipes. But anyway, that was just like another way for us to like, like, did we think we were good cooks or good bakers? Like no, but we're like, okay, let's just do it. And then it's like another way to like interact with people and like have connections and also like make little jokes, right? And like be and like it also helps if you're the one organizing the event as well. Yeah. Because then you can bring people together and everyone can see you and then come to you because you are the organizer. Yeah, I organized a baking competition at LinkedIn. Oh.

Starting point is 00:18:24 For my larger, like, team and, like, or get copier. I don't even know you won your sticky toffee cupcakes. But yeah, I organized this baking competition and got, like, engineers on our team and, like, sister teams to, like, sign up. Yeah. And it really brought people together. We were able to vote and everything. I've actually done it twice.

Starting point is 00:18:44 And they were mega successes. people loved it and it was a way for like us to engage it was a way for me to engage with people who were not on my team but on partner teams and in different roles because it was super cross-team cross-functional yeah so designers came engineers came data scientists came yeah and it was a way to also talk to people but then also be known obviously it was for baking it wasn't for like she was known but it was also a way to know it was a way to get known you know okay yeah or I was like I was kind of making fun of it, but you're right. It is. It's a way, yeah, it's a way for you to, like, put your name out there that is kind of, like, low stakes. Yeah. It's just, like, a reason for people to, like, know your

Starting point is 00:19:28 name and also, like, talk to you. To engage a conversation in the next time I was in the micro kitchen and someone who, like, I literally don't even remember, because since you're the organizer, there's, like, so many people you're dealing with. They're like, oh, you organize. I was like, oh, did you partake? And, like, it was a conversation. They're like, I for sure partook. I was like, did you bake something? Yeah, no, I first, it was forsakist. Anyways. Yeah, those are good.

Starting point is 00:19:53 Oh, memories, memories. It's funny how like, I'm like, oh, my years at Goldman Sachs all I remember is so fond. The music video and the baking contest. Yeah, seriously. Those are probably like micro snippets out of your. I know. It was like one percent of my time. But it is, I mean, it is, yeah, it's funny how that's what I remember about what I

Starting point is 00:20:13 remember it. All right. What about communicating as a woman in the workplace? This is a juicy one. Do you have thoughts? Yeah, I do. It's tough. It also depends on the environment that you're in and the workplace situation, like especially if it's a super male dominated field, like finance tech, I don't know, gaming, like those oil and gas. Yeah, if they're super heavily male dominated, it's hard sometimes. as a woman to be able to have your voice heard. And there's like many, many studies on this on like why that is, especially in like workplaces with that dynamic. I would say if you find yourself there, my number one tip is to find male allies. Oh, who will be able to pull you into conversations. These are the people. It could be your boss. It could be a mentor. It could just be someone who's

Starting point is 00:21:05 in meetings with you that you just really trust. For me, this was my, my boss Albert, who we had a very close like relationship and like we would be back channeling all the time and then he would give me such good advice that like in a meeting if it's like quiet and someone like ask something he's like it's jump ball he would like coach me afterwards and before it's jump ball meaning like anyone can like chime in and like someone like lobbed a question in the air chime wow like you know grab the ball and you know take it so and then there'd be there be times where there'd be conversations happening in meetings and like i would have like specific knowledge on an answer, but I'd be like too nervous to speak up. And then Alba would be like, DMing me on Slack be like,

Starting point is 00:21:48 go take this, you know this, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, wow. A male ally who is not only encouraging me to take the dump bowl, but then sometimes even putting like a layup for me anyway to like dunk it. And then he'd pass it over to me. That's amazing. So it was not only him being a male ally, but it was also me wanting to have like that, wanting that exposure. Yeah. And wanting to speak up. Okay. But then how do you, how do you cultivate that? Like, let's say, didn't have Albert because I'm like, okay, he sounds like the best boss in the world. Like, not going to lie. He really was, Albert, if you're watching this.

Starting point is 00:22:22 Yeah. Home me for life. Albert's living his best life. I know he is. I need him. I need to text him. But like, let's say, okay, Albert aside. Let's say he was this like outlier.

Starting point is 00:22:32 Yeah. What did you have other male allies that weren't your boss? I do cultivate them. Yeah. I would say for this one very tactical thing to do is that like, Figure out who you admire in the workplace. It could be a woman. It could be a man.

Starting point is 00:22:47 But if you're looking for male allies who are already in the room and already have influence, like find someone that you trust. Like, and that can be through. You have coffee with them. You vibe. And then after you're in a meeting together, pull them aside immediately when the meeting ends and then ask them for feedback. I'm going to be like, that's one so scary.

Starting point is 00:23:07 I mean, it's scary in the sense that like your ego might be hurt because you're like, oh, I'm like seeking feedback, but it's only for growth, especially if you trust this person. It's not even that. Even just like, I could imagine someone being like, oh my God, like I couldn't imagine like going up to someone more senior and being like, like even like pulling them aside. Even like approaching them. But that's something you have to like work up to, I guess. It's something you have to work up to. But it's just like you're in a meeting together and you want to get better.

Starting point is 00:23:33 You've already had a coffee chat with this person. Like they know that you have an interest in growing. You have like a growth mindset. And then like, you know, when everyone's. hacking up their laptops and then everyone's leaving when the meeting's over. Like you can't, you walk out of the meeting room with someone by your side and you have small talk. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:49 So what would you say? Pretend it's me. I'd be like, hey, James. Hey. You talk about. Or I walk out and be like, hey James. Hello. Where, Sheree?

Starting point is 00:24:01 Hello. This is based off of someone I know. Oh, okay. I'll be British. Hello there. I'm like, hey, so, do you have a second? Perhaps for you. Well, in this meeting, I just wanted to grab your feedback really quick.

Starting point is 00:24:17 If you had a couple of thoughts on how I presented myself, what I said, and how you think I could, you know, perhaps have more influence in the next meeting. Like, what do you think? What's a thoughtful question. I will most definitely give you feedback. Yeah. And, and, you know, if James is running off to laundry, has another meeting, be like, no stress. You don't have to answer this now. But if you can jot down like three thoughts, like, I'll catch you later.

Starting point is 00:24:41 Yeah. Okay. As like a manager. Yes. Thinking about it now as a manager and a former like team leader, I would be receptive to that. Yeah. I'd be like, oh, wow. Like what a thoughtful young person or just like what a thoughtful person who like actually really wants to grow. I have some thoughts on it. They're not fully formed about communicating in the workplace as a woman. Yeah. I think the like reality of it. I feel like I'm like always the one that's like the cold reality of the world. The cold are true. You don't know what this world is like. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:12 Like, you don't even know. You're not ready for the truth. But God. No, but like, I am, you know, I am like half a generation older than Sheree. So I do think the reality of it is that you may not necessarily be in control of everything, right? Like, as a woman, like, you are still existing in a broader context. And you exist in the context of coconut. You think you just felt.

Starting point is 00:25:40 of a coconut tree. Exactly. I think what I'm trying to say is that it's helpful to also be aware of how other people perceive you. And it may not even be specific to you. It may be like you as a category, right? Like you as a 25 year old woman, how are you perceived? You as a 30 year old, not single woman, how are you perceived? Like, you know how there's been a lot of discussion about the idea of the manic pixie dream girl? I feel like there's a very, version of it that carries over to the workplace as well where like when you are a certain age and you act a certain way you're kind of viewed as more of like the ingenue like you're like new to the world like you're new you're young enough that people don't perceive you as a threat and they don't

Starting point is 00:26:28 take you seriously like you're you're you're fresh out of school great you have all this fresh energy good job yes right so that's like kind of but also it's to your benefit right because if you go up ask someone senior like, oh, can you give me feedback? They will be fully honest with you and be like trying to help you. Yeah. As opposed to when you reach a certain point, when you're no longer like viewed as the ingenue and, um, you are like a little bit more senior in your career. Like those same tactics may or may not go over the same way.

Starting point is 00:27:04 Because then you kind of start to be viewed as like competition. Yeah, totally. So it's kind of. like you get some beginners like leeway yeah so that's just something that i've seen that i myself and i and my like fellow millennial women i feel like we've like been working our way through and i don't really have an answer to that but it's just something that i can be like watch out for like be aware of it and like understand how you're being perceived by the people you interact with totally i think i mean it's especially we're talking about the context of women in the workplace, but I think like men as well,

Starting point is 00:27:44 especially maybe minority men as well, like, like are placed in some sort of like stereotype. Yeah. I know one of my friends who worked in venture capital, he was one of like the youngest partners at a VC firm amongst like other people who were probably like 20 to 35 years older than him. And then he had gotten married, but then he like very specifically like wanted to get married and have a ring to seem older. you than he actually was and he was very mature and like but like in that way it's like understanding your reputation and how do you manage it and then perhaps surprise people if you know they have a stereotype of you and you completely break out of that in a good way yeah and i do feel like that sort

Starting point is 00:28:26 of benefit that men get in the workplace of like being married and like having kids like just think about your own perception of like a man with kids like you're automatically like oh my god he's a great he's a good person this he's a fun he's response like he's like he's a response like He's responsible. He is, you know, like thoughtful, et cetera, versus like women don't get that same sort of benefit of the doubt or like immediate positive shift in perception. I mean, if anything, it could be like the other way. Oh, yeah. True, true.

Starting point is 00:29:04 That's so unfair. Yeah. So I don't know. That wasn't like a fully fully formed thought, but it's like something, there's something there. Yeah. So I guess the main takeaway is that like be aware of what, how you may be perceived for whether it's fair or not, like in the workplace. And many times perception can be reality. What?

Starting point is 00:29:28 You weren't ready for that truth bond? Yeah. So what do you think about communication when it comes to dating and flirting? Um, thoughts, thoughts. I think, okay, I think even the kind of like precursor to explicit communication is like your energy. Because vibes. Yeah, because I feel like something. What are you laughing? Communicating through energy. Well, more energy. More energy. More energy. More passion. More passion. More passion. more passion. No, but I just feel like for myself and my own experience,

Starting point is 00:30:14 I feel like in the last like few months, like something has shifted in my energy. Whereas like I'll be going back to the same exact places and situations. But now all of a sudden like people are like approaching me. And like people are like coming up to me and like speaking to me, you know. Oh, I love that. Yeah. You're like more, you're more open.

Starting point is 00:30:39 I think so. You're like radiating, you're magnetic. Yeah. Or maybe I'm just not wearing an engagement ring anymore. That might be it. That might be part of it. But no, I don't know. I think it's not, it's not just that.

Starting point is 00:30:54 I think it's more like my energy has shifted. Yeah. And also it's like both my energy that I'm putting out, but then also like my energy within myself, whereas now I am like more like aware of the world around me. I'm like almost like seeing the world through like a different perspective. I love that. I think it's energy that you put out and then also the energy to receive as well. So that like if people come up to you and talk to you, you're not going to be closed off. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like for me, I'm like very much like sometimes I'm in like a state of like mind or energy or I'm like, nobody better talk to me. Like I'm like, I'm

Starting point is 00:31:34 not here to like. But I do not wish to be perceived. I do not. Yes, exactly. Seriously. Really? Yeah. Whereas like you're different.

Starting point is 00:31:42 Like you're much. I'm like, perceive me. Everyone. You're more like open all the time. It's about your energy. So maybe it like kind of like starts there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:52 I think you can also perceive people's energy too before they even like open up their mouth. Like you could. Yeah. Before they speak, you're like, oh, do you have like a positive? Like are you smiling? Are you smiling? Eyes glistening with this for the future in the world.

Starting point is 00:32:07 Do you glimmer? Yeah, do you glimmer? Do you shimmer? Like, I really believe in that energy and you can feel it in someone, even if you're just, like, interacting with them briefly. Yeah. But then what about, okay, energy aside. What are your thoughts? You guys already know.

Starting point is 00:32:27 If you've seen the dating episode, I've said it once and I'll say it again. What? What did you say? I love the banter. Oh, okay. I love. Yeah, me too. I think so in terms of communicating with like someone romantically or dating, like I think it's really attractive, obviously when people are intelligent. And I saw this from like a TikTok video. So if you guys know who it's from like definitely at them. But they're just like women in general. This was a gross generalization. But I agreed with it. Women are at least myself like really are attracted to people who are intelligent. And one way to demonstrate intelligence. is through like jokes and being funny. And if you can like engage in like the witty humor, the banter, the banta, then like I find

Starting point is 00:33:13 that super attractive and it draws me in as well. Totally. Like it demonstrates that it actually, it like demonstrates several things because it demonstrates that you're smart enough to like pick up on and like make jokes in the moment. But also that you have enough. Yeah. Self-to like deliver it in a way that's like, funny and you're like, oh, this kind of joke will connect with this person. Yeah. And like it's going to land.

Starting point is 00:33:37 They have the context for this. Like blah, blah, blah. Yeah. It's actually quite complicated to be funny, in a good way. Yeah, it's hard to be funny. It's hard to be funny because then you have to like know the other person and what they find funny and understand what context they have for the jokes that you're going to make. Is it a cultural reference, a historic reference? Like, you know. So yeah, I think being funny, can someone fain humor or being funny it's hard no I don't think you can't I think usually a joke will like fall flat

Starting point is 00:34:11 and people can immediately be like that was awkward yeah I mean also like you like leading with humor like if you are leading with jokes you can really like understand a person like pretty quickly like you can be like

Starting point is 00:34:26 oh like what kind of references are they picking up or not picking up like what is their response to my like jokes in my banter. Yeah. I think it also can, if you're not like a naturally funny person, I think two things that can help.

Starting point is 00:34:40 One, watching like comedy shows and like picking up on other comedians and figuring out what do you find funny. And then the second thing is also self-deprecating jokes. Like when you're making jokes, you never want to like punch down on someone. You know, if someone, that's what they say for like stand-up comedian. You want to like make fun of yourself and you can also punch up as well. Yeah. Or like you.

Starting point is 00:35:02 first you can like make fun of yourself and then you can make fun of someone else. Yeah. I also, I like being teased. I think being teased, um, it can be cute. What about the role of like gossip or tea? Like where does that fall in how to talk to anyone? I think it's an important part. Like I think people who believe they're like self-righteous and like, oh, I don't gossip. I don't, you know, especially like harmless gossip. I don't gossip. I don't gossip. I don't gossip. I think people who like claim to be self-righteous in that sense, you're just kidding yourself and you're honestly hurting yourself for making connections with people.

Starting point is 00:35:39 I think hurtful, harmful gossip. Like that's a different thing. But if it's like harmless gossip and like just a little bit of de-sipping can be fine. I think like specifically outside of friend groups like on the topic of how to talk to anyone, like a little bit of harmless gossip is a great way to like break. through like three layers of like small talk to then like have like kind of this like inside joke between the two of you inside jokes also are so powerful. I was like listening to something the other day on TikTok where someone was like oh like one of the one of the best hacks to like

Starting point is 00:36:21 be friends someone. It's to like make an inside joke with them right away. And I was like, oh yeah, I freaking love that. Like I love when people do that with me and I also enjoy doing that with other people because then you have this like little like harmless little secret and there's like this little inside joke and it's like so like fun yeah um yeah but it's kind of like I feel like there's like kind of like a spectrum between like harmless gossip and inside joke it's like can sometimes be like one in the same so maybe it's a spectrum it's like a vend end diagram or something like that but like I don't know one example is like I was at the gym and then I was um talking to one of the And I was like, oh, like I heard this happen with like the CFO, which is like someone that I have

Starting point is 00:37:08 no idea. Like I've never met this man like, you know, this guy like probably barely knows him. And it was just and he just all of a sudden he like, you know, broke the fourth wall or like just like broke character. He's like, oh my God. Like yes, like this is what happened. This is blah, blah. And it's like totally harmless. Yeah. But it was it or it was great to like just like connect about something. And then now like every time we see each other, we're like, tiki. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of, it builds relationships. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:36 It's the power of normal gossip. Next, we're going to talk about ways to invite people to talk to you without having to talk to them or without having to initiate. One of the great things that Jean and I share is our love for fashion. And in this specific instance, fashion and statement pieces as a conversation starts. So have you ever seen a person who's just wearing something so freaking cool? It's a cool blouse, a cool pair of jeans or shoes. And you're like, oh my God, that's amazing. Sometimes when I see these people walking down the street, I will stop them. I'll be like, you look fantastic. And like, where did you get that from? And so I think if you can incorporate

Starting point is 00:38:21 that into your life and like there are things that you really enjoy that are like specialty or statement pieces, it really does invite people in to ask you about it. Yeah, I love a statement piece. So like especially. if you enjoy fashion. Like I think that's something to lean into because that's like a way that you can express yourself and other people can perceive you and like sort of like understand who you are without you even opening your mouth. Right.

Starting point is 00:38:47 Like without even saying anything, you're sort of like having a conversation with them through the way that you choose to like dress, especially if you have something that is more of a statement or like more like noticeable or more like cute. So that's like, that's kind of like informed sort of the way I shop. Because I just like also like I love like statement pieces. Like I love like a whimsical like bag or like a really like unexpected detail or something like that. Well, that's also why you do a lot of shopping like abroad as well because then like one, it commemorates your trip as like a fire. But then like there's a story behind like what you're wearing and like people will ask you about.

Starting point is 00:39:31 it. Oh my God. My biggest flex and I am so annoying about this, like, and I know it, is that when I buy things in thrift stores or consignment shops abroad, I am incredibly insufferable and for a good reason because it's so cool that I got this like scarf from, it was like a, it's like a Van Gogh print on a scarf from a thrift store in Australia and Sydney. And I've gotten so many compliments on it because I wear the scarf as a top and I like, I tie it around on different things. And people are like, oh my god, I love your top. Like, where's it from? And I'm like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:03 It's from a, and it's also like one of a kind because it's from a thrift store. I mean, I'm sure you can find it online, but who's going to find it? It's like, maybe you are. Like, who knows who makes it even. Yeah. And then also like your vintage leather long jacket. Yeah. Paris.

Starting point is 00:40:15 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And $17. Also, like, for me, like, I also like to buy like special purchases, um, abroad. Because then it's like a way to commemorate the trip.

Starting point is 00:40:29 and then also it's something that people can ask you about. And then you can tell them the story behind it. And then perhaps they'll purchase it or just like have a conversation. Or even if they don't ask you, it's not like they'll like, they'll like be like, where did you get that? They'll just be like, oh, like, I like your bag. And you'd be like, oh, my God, thanks so much. Like I got this like on a trip last year in Lisbon or something like that. Or like I got this in Barcelona.

Starting point is 00:40:54 And then like that's like you like responding to them with like a little piece of information. And then that's how you kind of like. get into this conversation. And then they were like, oh, my God. Like, I've always told us to go Barcelona or like, I was just there last year. Like, blah, blah, blah. Yes. It's such a good conversation starter. Yeah. Especially if there's a story behind it that you care about. They can sense that excitement that you bring into the conversation. I think also part of it is that, like, I genuinely love fashion and have like a true passion for it. So like passion for fashion. Yeah. So like it, whenever people do ask me about it, like I'm really excited to talk about the topic. So like maybe that's something that like either if it's not like natural to you, you can like try it out like little by little or maybe there's like other ways to convey like things that you're passionate about in like what you wear or like how you present yourself. Like if you love golf like you could be I don't know where like whatever you go golfing like buy some of the member.

Starting point is 00:41:57 Rebellia and wear it and then we'll ask you about it. Yes. Like where if you go to band and dunes like get a little sweater that's like band and dunes like totally or like one of my friend, my classmates who goes to golf courses like around the world. He always gets a little hat. Yeah. That sent the golf course name.

Starting point is 00:42:14 Oh, I love buying hats. Right. What caps. Kind of for this reason. Yeah. Because then you can wear it and then you can wear it. You can wear it the next time you play golf in like a normal place and then it'll strike up conversation with people.

Starting point is 00:42:26 Yeah. especially if you're already on the golf course where other people have similar interest to you. And you're like, oh, my God, you went there? I went there. Or I've always wanted to go there. What, like, recommendations do you have? Yes. Or even, like, a lot of times people, if they go to, like, a hotel or something, they'll, like, buy a hat from the hotel.

Starting point is 00:42:43 Really? Yeah. Is that kind of cheesy? Well, it depends on, like, the hotel. Like, people will do it for, like, Amangani or, like, Amangiri. Or people do that for, like, rest. Like, the restaurant and not restaurants. about like dive bars, you know?

Starting point is 00:42:57 That's a good. Yes. Yeah. Like something that you like associate yourself with or like an experience that you had. And then like other people, I don't know. It's like social signaling. Yeah. Right.

Starting point is 00:43:09 Like it's like when I went to the apprae at Shamies and Palisades Tahoe, you better believe I got a shamis hat and I wear it around. If you know, you know. Shammoa. Chamea. The other part of the memorabilia that you pick up at different. for places is that it also kind of is a way of signaling to people what sort of groups you belong to or like what sort of common interest you may have. So like why do people buy so much gear from their undergrad or from their grad schools? Like why does Shari have like 50 pieces of Stanford

Starting point is 00:43:46 clothing? It's because one, she's obsessed with Stanford. I love Stanford. And also she has tons of stuff and Barnard and Columbia too. Yeah. So she just like obviously she just like loves it. She's passionate about it but like also it's like subconsciously a way of being like hey like this is part of my identity and then you can see it right away when you see me and that's also a conversation started too especially if you're an alum or you know you live in palo Alto or you're in from the surrounding area like I'm when I'm wearing like a Stanford sweatshirt like people can see it and if they bring it up I'm like obviously I'm going to talk to you about it yeah you like you want to Samran me too me too what year are like oh my god I was Stanford well I'm not a lot of now

Starting point is 00:44:26 Or if you go to a concert, that's why people love buying concert and robilia. Yeah. Because it shows you the music that you're into and then you actually went to the concert. Yeah. So, yeah, there's lots of ways even if you're not like obsessed with fashion like us to kind of like express who you are without words and then have people come to you. How to talk to anyone. Yeah. Start a conversation with no words.

Starting point is 00:44:51 How to start a conversation without saying a single word. It's the energy. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode of Tiger Sisters. Hope this was helpful. There's some topics that, you know, could be discussed further. They're open discussion. Yes. And so please remember to like, comment, and subscribe.

Starting point is 00:45:11 And we would so appreciate it if you could share this video with someone who might find it helpful. We'll see you next time. Thanks. Bye.

Tiger Sisters - Networking 101 from Harvard & Stanford MBA Grads: EP 10

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