Tiger Sisters - Our Upbringing as Harvard & Stanford MBA Grads

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to the season two premiere of the Tiger Sisters. Yay! We're back, baby. We're back. We're so bad. We're so bad. It's like we never even left. Hi, I'm Gene.

Starting point is 00:00:11 And I'm Sheree. And we're the Tiger Sisters. In this episode, we are going to be talking all about the dynamics and the obligations of immigrant and first generation children. So this might be a heavier episode, but like, children of immigrants, we're looking at you. This episode is for you guys. Yeah. help you relate and talked about that much. So like that's why we thought it was important,

Starting point is 00:00:33 even though honestly it gets a more difficult episode for the two of us to do. Like I would love to hear this dialogue from someone else, from other people. Yeah. Oh my God. That's like kind of how we decide our topics and how we're like, you know what? This is not an easy thing to talk about. But like I wish I could hear other people who I consider to be my peers or look up to and respect, like talk about this topic and how it shaped them and, like, how they think about it. It's kind of what we're doing. Yeah. The discourse, at least to our knowledge, does not yet exist in the way that we're looking for it. So like we're creating it. It's actually really difficult for us to do that, you know, like emotionally and mentally, but I think it's a worthwhile pursuit.

Starting point is 00:01:14 Before we dive in, please remember to like, comment and subscribe. Gene and I read every single comment that you guys leave in our YouTube. So please let us know what questions. you have. Yes, we love mailbag. Yes, we have a mailbag segment where we read all the questions and comments you guys leave and we incorporate them into our future episodes. Yeah, and especially if you guys like certain topics, we'll do a V2 of that episode. Like we've already gotten some questions about the friendships. We've gotten questions about the friendships episode. So I'm thinking we should do a follow up on that. Yeah. And then also dating part two. Yeah. Okay, so for our premiere episode, we are bringing back.

Starting point is 00:02:07 roses and thorns. Roads and Thorns. Oh my God, it's been too long. Okay, so Cherie, tell us about your roses and thorns. Okay, so it's actually like hearkening back to one of our first episodes. Oh, guys, I think I know what she's going to say. Oh, yeah. So my rose, I'm so back, baby.

Starting point is 00:02:26 Oh, my gosh. She is so popular. Okay, so in the beginning of our season one, we had a rose and thorn, and one of my big thorns was that I was feeling existentially lonely, like profound loneliness because I had moved to a new city. And I no longer feel that way. It's actually really nice because now I feel like I have my social groove. I'm like meeting people for dinner for events and all this stuff. And so like I honestly feel the pendulum has swung the other way. She's so busy. She has dinners every single night of the week. Like nobody does that in L.A. Like it's just not, it's just not, it's really uncommon. It's not like New York City. It's kind of like

Starting point is 00:03:06 a flurry of like hanging out with people now and I'm really enjoying it. In fact, I need to like slow down and be like, oh wait, I definitely shouldn't book myself like on Monday and Tuesday because I need a rest. But yeah, I feel like my social battery is very, very full right now. Yay. And also not to say I told you so, but I knew it would happen. Yeah. Somehow you knew it would happen. You knew I would bounce back. Although I knew I would bounce back too, but like in the moment I was just feeling like really sad. Yeah, when you're in it, you're like, I know. Like, it's hard to imagine, like, a time that you're not in. Like, I feel like my cups are very full now, like career-wise, like, social-wise, and, like, all the different aspects.

Starting point is 00:03:48 I'm like, oh, like, I finally feel like I'm settling in a little bit, which leads to my thorn. This is similar to how Jen Tran had someone in her life emerge when she least expected it. Someone from my past has emerged when I am not. Dang, she's going there. When I have not expected it at all. And so while I have really felt very settled in my life here in L.A., I was, like, a little bit nervous because, like, now I'm kind of, like, dealing with something and I'm not going to go into detail about it, but, like, someone in my past has come up.

Starting point is 00:04:20 You know, it's caused a lot of, I think, like, consternation. Consternation. Like, I don't know, like, a lot of, like, emotions and, like, flooding and a lot of, like, all this other stuff going on, but I think throughout it, like, I was like, oh, this is kind of annoying that this is coming up, similar to Jen Tran, like, you don't expect it. Like, Jen Tran on The Bachelorette, you don't expect it. But I'm also just like, life goes on. I have to deal with it. Like, my life, I can't put my life on pause to, like, deal with this thing that's come up from the past. So just, like, taking it in stride. But, like, with all my other roses,

Starting point is 00:04:56 I was just like, this is kind of like I have. I have comments. All right, what's your comment? So I think one thing that I'm proud of you, that you did a good. job of is that you like talked about it with different trusted friends, including me. And I just felt like when you gave me the feedback that your friends gave you, I like was really able to see that they were like very high quality friends kind of and that they're like really thoughtful. They're really thoughtful people with good judgment. So like that actually, what?

Starting point is 00:05:28 Because they said similar things that you said. Yeah. So? Yeah. I'm a thoughtful person with good judgment, especially when it's like not yourself, you know? Like when it's yourself, like you can't. You don't see it as clearly. You can't, yeah, you can't like see the like scenery or like the landscape when you're inside.

Starting point is 00:05:48 Yes. I guess that's the phrase. Sort of. And it's also, it's like your board of trust board of advisors situation. I have a board of advisors to go to in terms of like, you know, career, professional stuff. love life, like different friends for different reasons and different like trusted advisors in that way. So yeah, we're kind of, we're moving past that. We're moving and grooving. We're getting through it. And yeah, we'll see how that goes. Nice. Okay, Jean, so what is your rose and thorn?

Starting point is 00:06:22 Okay, my rose and thorn are related. So it's kind of a little bit similar to what you said, but basically my thorn is that like over the last week I was just really really like heads down and working a ton and it was coming off of I had a cold the week before so that I was like not really doing anything and I had to cancel pretty much like a whole week and like weekend of plan so I was like kind of bummed about that and then right after that I was just like working a ton the whole weekend like barely to catch up yeah to catch up and like barely saw anyone but like I wanted to work too you know what I mean like I wanted to like get through all the stuff and I was just like really in the zone and I felt like I was like in sprint mode. But then I also was just feeling like I don't know like a lot of my it's like in the time period where everyone's kind of like traveling to Europe and like going to a lot of weddings.

Starting point is 00:07:14 And like that's the sort of thing that I typically would have been doing and like was doing pretty consistently like when I was with my ex. fiance. And so like it was just like it was just did you get fomo? Not even like fomo really, but just kind of it's like when you are like watching like a story where you're like oh wait like that is like usually me. That's like the old me. That's like what I would have been doing. But then I'm not doing that anymore.

Starting point is 00:07:47 I'm doing something totally different. You know? Like I just have like a very different life. It's like you're watching like the alternate version of like. what your life would have been. So, like, watching all my other friends, they're, like, doing all these things that I usually would have been doing. But then I'm not doing it.

Starting point is 00:08:05 So... Yeah. I don't know. It was just... It's not... That's a little bit trippy. Yeah. It is.

Starting point is 00:08:12 Yeah. It's like watching a scene or a movie of, like, yeah, like, how your life would have been. But it's not now. I guess I'm still processing it because I just said the exact same thing. Yeah. No, I feel that. I've never been there. before. She's zero advice for me, guys. I have no advice. This is a one-way street. I have no advice. That just

Starting point is 00:08:33 sounds really tough and I hope you get through it. Yeah, no, it's not, it's not that like bad. It's more just something you're noticing that I'm noticing. Yeah. And it's just, I guess it's like a little bit sad still. Like it's just like remnants of like the life that never was. Or more like the life that never will be. yeah yeah i guess with that specific person although i feel like that life is very possible with someone else as well that's true it's not like that won't happen ever yeah that's true it will happen just with someone who is a different person yeah just someone else yeah so wow who said i didn't have advice that was pretty smart yeah it was like you know boilerplate but that's not a

Starting point is 00:09:27 Blueprint. Boiler plate means like standard. I know what boilerplate means. Okay, but you're like acting, she's like acting all like smug as if like that was like a compliment. Um, okay. So that was the thorn, I guess. I didn't even really realize I was going to like express it that way. But the rose is that now on the flip side of all of that, it's like all of these different like opportunities have started coming up. And Sheree and I have like a bunch of conferences coming up, which I'm really excited about and I'm also like speaking at a conference that is like a pretty big deal to me at least with like a super it's a big deal it's a big deal it's a big deal and I am so excited to brag about jean about this because I think we just generally have a hard time bragging about ourselves but it is

Starting point is 00:10:17 so cool there's jean's getting a lot of different speaking opportunities where like companies are flying her out like very reputable companies flying her out like posting her up and she's going to be speaking on panels to, like, investors and business people who, like, look up to her and her expertise. It's a very... I'm really excited because it's, like, a super qualified audience, and it's, like, people that run, like, between them are managing, like, probably, like, trillions of dollars, like, literally. So I'm just really excited about that.

Starting point is 00:10:50 And also, I'm, like, looking back now on, like, a couple of, like, really random speaking opportunities that I just, like, said yes. to and I like had no idea what I was getting myself into and I just like did it and now I'm like oh I'm so glad I did that because then I had a chance to kind of like get back into public speaking true in a more like low stakes way even when you did one when you were very sick oh my god but you didn't know you she didn't really know she was that sick I really know if you know what I mean so yeah those are my rose and thorn so obviously we have mailbag

Starting point is 00:11:27 Mailbag. Mailbag. I want to play the like blues clues. Mail time. Yeah. Okay. So we actually, once again, we have received a lot of questions on the same sort of topic. But generically, they are all pretty much questions.

Starting point is 00:11:45 A lot of them are about asking about how we were raised and asking about our childhood. And we've also received questions about what would you do same or different for your future children? So I think one of the reasons why we've gotten this question so many times, like over and over again in our Instagram videos and our YouTube videos, is because I think on the surface, people see something and then they're like really curious to know like how it became. Like on the surface, we are the Tiger Sisters, you know, in our intro video, you see all of the institutions, the like industries behind our background and our credentialing. And so people are just like, how did you get this way? And I get that. And I'm also people like your personality. and like they see that we're generally like well-adjusted humans in society.

Starting point is 00:12:32 And so they're like, how are you raised by your parents? And so while I understand that's a very like natural question, Jean and I have honestly gone back and forth on like really how to do this episode. It's a bit tough for us to address. And I think we're really excited to dive in here. But I think just some context setting, it's not something we talk about often. Honestly, like if you've watched me throughout the years on my, social media like I don't really talk about my family like now Jean has become such a big part of

Starting point is 00:13:02 my Instagram and social media but like I just usually don't go there yeah and I've obviously never talked about it publicly because I've never talked about anything publicly before she's still beginning to talk about stuff but yeah like you know I've talked about so much stuff on my Instagram everything and I share about my life but I don't really share about this aspect yeah usually I keep it quite private and so I think in sharing this you get to learn more about us in a deeper way. And, you know, I think it's also a process for me, just quite honestly, of like, I'm also learning to learning what it means to share this kind of stuff as well. So thank you for being here with us and thank you for understanding before we even dive into

Starting point is 00:13:43 the context, like where I'm coming from. So setting some context, Gene and I are seven years apart. We grew up in New York and I think first things first, we are children of divorce. Our parents, were divorced when I was in middle school. And so Gene was in college. But, you know, we saw a lot of the pre-divorced stuff before then. And I think the environment that we grew up, grew up in was oftentimes very chaotic. And that's probably very much sugar-coding it. And I think I'll just leave it there.

Starting point is 00:14:16 And I think throughout all of that, like our parents are immigrants, adding that to the equation. And I'm an immigrant. And Gene's an immigrant. Yeah. I moved to the U.S. when I was 11 months old. I was born in Brooklyn. Brooklyn, New York. Forget about it.

Starting point is 00:14:31 Forget about it. Forget about it. Forget about it. And, you know, soon after then, like, I moved to Long Island where Gene and I then ended up growing up and much of our formative years ended up being on Long Island. And I think Jean can also dive into a little bit more of her experience moving as well a little bit later. So just setting some context there. it was oftentimes very tumultuous, but I think coming out of it, like Gene and I are super close

Starting point is 00:15:02 because of, I think, a lot of the stuff that happened in our childhood that was not very nice. And I think throughout it all, like we grew up mainly, I think, with like a very strong single mother or a person who had to be very strong because of the situations that we were in. And so a lot of our personality, I think, is derived from all the shit that we saw and we did and how we had to adapt. And honestly, survive in, you know, a child's context of, like, how to survive through all of that. And so I think I'm just going to leave it there. I think that's, like, already very heavy. And I think if we feel comfortable later on in this episode or a future, we might dive into it.

Starting point is 00:15:45 We might not. But that's just some context setting is, like, you know, how people talk about having a chip on their shoulders. was just like, oh, I think this is a chip and then some, you know, of us trying to strive and then also making it work. And if you are a child of immigrants, you know that they're, I'm talking to you guys right now. Like, you know that there's like so much that comes with it. Like, you know, the family dynamic, you know, parents coming to the United States with like nothing more than like five dollars in their pockets. Like, I've heard that story, internalize that story. And it's just like, children of immigrants, I think, have a lot of pressure. Yeah. And like the level of

Starting point is 00:16:21 expectations. And I think in many, many cases, a very common story is that the parents give up what is, you know, oftentimes like a very stable life, perhaps. Yeah, not just stable, but a lot of times, like, guaranteed to be upper middle class or even, like, wealthy lives in their home country in order to come to this new, you know, come to the United States. Yeah, they sacrifice opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. And like, give opportunity to. to, you know, their children. So this might be a heavier episode, but like children of immigrants,

Starting point is 00:16:56 we're looking at you. This episode is for you guys. We hope you relate. It's not talked about that much. So, like, that's why we thought it was important, even though, like, honestly, like, it's a more difficult episode for the two of us to do. It's just, like, I would love to hear this dialogue from someone else,

Starting point is 00:17:14 from other people, you know? Oh, my God. So it's, like, that's, like, kind of how we decide our topics and how we're like, you know what, this is not an easy thing to talk about. But like, I wish I could hear other people who I consider to be my peers or look up to and respect, like, talk about this topic and how it shaped them and, like, how they think about it. So that's what we're doing. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:35 The discourse, at least to our knowledge, does not yet exist in the way that we're looking for it. So, like, we're creating it. And it's actually really difficult for us to do that, you know, like emotionally and mentally. But I think it's a worthwhile pursuit. To kick off this episode, one thing I found to be helpful when it's a more difficult topic for me personally to talk about is find some other voices that have already spoken about it. So I found this one article that was written the Duke Chronicle, and it's about basically children of immigrants on guilt and drive. And I'll just read it. Susan Cheminor, class of 2027, says, when I study for a test, I'm not simply being a good student.

Starting point is 00:18:17 I'm making good on a promise, a promise that I won't let that. the sacrifices of the people who came before me go to waste. That's heavy. That's like really heavy shit. Right? Yeah. It's like such a good encapsulation of like every single thing, like the way that you kind of walk through life as a child of immigrant, right? It feels like everything you're doing is like not just for you, but it feels like it's for your parents, your grandparents, your great-grandparents. your ancestors, like you know the history of, like, trauma that they went through. Yeah. I mean, at least we know the history about our family trauma.

Starting point is 00:18:58 Yeah. And, like, it's kind of, it's not that healthy, but, like, I feel like what's ingrained in you as a child is, like, your level of trauma, like, whatever it is, is never going to compare, which is true, right? Like, we never had to be, we've never been, like, victims of war, right? That's true. we've never had to contend with like starvation yeah like you know droughts or starvation and this is just true across like so many minority like friends that I've spoken to I don't really know what to do with that

Starting point is 00:19:32 mindset I know because it it is a hard way to go through life like you just put a lot of pressure you put a lot of pressure on yourself and you're like oh like oh I'm not going through war or starvation like my life is fine but then like I also don't think that's like a really feasible way to think about like when things actually do matter like I know like the unhealthy way to think about it that I think I have in the past has been like oh like I didn't have to deal with like starvation war or like you know child labor and I still can't get into Yale like that was like that's like the most toxic way that honestly I did think of that was like my way of thinking for a long time well I'm glad you move past that because I feel like for mental health reasons like yeah it's not

Starting point is 00:20:17 best to have that mindset but like I do hear where that's coming from like just going back to this quote it's just like I mean also the generations before us like people who are in their like 90s 80s 70s 60s like they've had things were not easy I think they're still not easy today but like for our like great grandparents like oh my god yeah I think there's also like very much across all of many immigrant cultures this idea of like hard work yeah and sacrifice sacrifice and like sacrifice and like because so many of our predecessors, their achievements are due to hard work, they kind of see that as like a, I don't know, like panacea or what's the, how do you pronounce it? Panacea. They see that as the sort of like panacea in some ways or at the very least like the basis of

Starting point is 00:21:07 everything, right? But also at the same time, hard work is not, is not all you need. And that's something that I feel like a lot of immigrant parents, like, don't really, because they don't have that context of, like, what it's like to, like, grow up and live and try to thrive in, like, this new social structure, the new social structure of being in a different country. So, like, it's not, like, you can't just, like, hammer your way and, like, hard work your way through everything. Yeah. I think a lot of things are out of your control, honestly. Well, I think it's a good starting point. It's a good starting point, but it's, like, I feel like it's, like, ingrained in you so much. that like it eventually becomes a limiting belief because you think that you can kind of do

Starting point is 00:21:52 anything or get anywhere with hard work and you assume that the world is a meritocracy in some ways. Yeah. Because it is when you're in school in a lot of ways, right? Yeah, for the most part. Literally grades, like tests. That's so interesting. Yeah, it's because like it also, I think in the, it depends on the industry, but like a lot of industries are more regimented that way where it is a meritocracy.

Starting point is 00:22:15 for example, like being a doctor for the most part, like getting into men's school, like it's your grades that matter. It actually makes so much sense now why like immigrant families push their daughters or push their children to be doctors and lawyers. Because literally like getting into a good law school all goes, yeah, more engineers. But getting into a good law school all comes down to your LSAT and your grades. Very much, very, there's less like exogenous factors. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:42 They're all, for the most part, it's like more within your control. like the harder that you study and the higher the grade. Wow, I can't believe I never thought of that. Yeah, whereas like... That's such a good correlation. It really is. And like, because I think that's what a lot of immigrant families know to be true in their home countries and in the U.S. if they can replicate that in these specific domains, they can also see and find similar success.

Starting point is 00:23:06 Yeah. Versus like if you think about a lot of the other industries, like even the ones that we've been in, like finance, technology. Media. Media. a lot of it is not just about working hard, but it's about having an edge, right? And having an edge comes through information. How do you get information? Interpersonal relations, right?

Starting point is 00:23:24 It's not just like, you can't just hard work your way to like information in those industries. Something I would like to come back to that I've been thinking about is the stories that we tell. We were saying we've heard the stories of like sacrifice about our great-grandfather. And like those are the stories that are told from generation to generation. It has a theme of sacrifice, of loss, of hard work, and duty. And those are the narratives that I think are passed out in many immigrant families, especially Asian ones. And I find that to be quite sad because I haven't heard stories that are told about like love

Starting point is 00:24:06 and laughter and fun times. And it makes me believe, maybe incorrect. maybe correctly, that those were not present in our family ever. Like, maybe they did have a laugh at the dinner table, but those are never the stories that are told in our immigrant family, you know, dynamic. And I hate that. But like, I don't really know what to do with that. I would like to change it going forward.

Starting point is 00:24:31 But so much of the stories we tell ourselves and that we hear dictate how we feel about our family history. I do think some of that is cultural because I feel like, I don't know, it's like a spectrum, right? Like, do your stories that you tell and pass down, like, do they tend to be more positive or do they tend to be more, like, kind of like negative coded, you know? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:55 The thing is like, you know, I don't know. It's a story about resilience and grit. So that's the positive side of it. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was going to say, is that on the flip side, it makes you, sorry I cut you off, but like, it makes you work harder. Right? Like, even though we haven't gone through.

Starting point is 00:25:12 those hardships ourselves. Yeah. Like hearing those stories like make us almost like act in a way as if we did. Perhaps. But is it out of like internal positive motivation or is it from this quote the guilt and the duty that comes out of it? Like what is the motivator? Does it matter?

Starting point is 00:25:32 I would say for our mental health it probably does. I think the distinction probably matters. Yeah. Maybe for the end result it doesn't. But then maybe without those stories like we never. I mean, I'm sure. sure without those stories, like, in that background and, like, that sort of pressure that we had taken on, we never would have pushed ourselves to do all the things that we do. Even, like, now.

Starting point is 00:25:53 Like, maybe, like, on the surface, it looks like we're just, like, making a podcast day to day today, but, like, it's, it's, we have, like, no, it's not just a grind, but, like, we have, like, huge ambitions for this, like, massive. I'm just going to put it out there. Yeah, like, really big. Like, truly, like, world. Well, Disney were coming for you. No, truly, though. Like, we were. want to like change the world with what we're doing. It's kind of beautiful in that way. Yeah. Come, maybe come from a harder, rougher place, but I think it's come into, it's grown into something beautiful, which I really love. But then I think another question is just like,

Starting point is 00:26:30 if you don't grow up in these circumstances, like, do you have that same edge? Yeah. I would love to know, like, this is where like I'm going to ask you guys, like, please chime in. Like, please comment. Like, I want to know. Like, if you don't have that chip on your shoulder, in this way. Yeah. Do you need a different chip on your shoulder to like have, I mean, sometimes, I mean, this is, I'll just put it out there. Some people are like, people who have everything handed to them in life, like, don't have enough drive. And that's why as a parent, I'm not going to give my kids, you know, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Like, but, you know, that's a different chip on your shoulder that you won't be ever good enough or you won't measure up. But like, yes, and then you want to prove yourself

Starting point is 00:27:06 that way. Yeah. Yeah. There's a discussion. Please have the discussion in the comments because we would love to hear your thoughts. Or like, even if you, even if you do like a hundred percent identify with us or you're or you're like oh well I agree with like this part that you're saying but not this part like I want to I want to know like I want it to be a dialogue yeah I'm like genuinely curious I want to know what you guys have to say and how you think I feel like we should have another person on this podcast who I don't know just like a third voice yeah I do think that's a good idea like we could basically like have this same we could like have this same conversation, but having like a third perspective would be really interesting, like someone who's

Starting point is 00:27:45 like outside of our family, basically. Yeah, totally. I'll just share another quote that really stood out to me in that same Duke Chronicle article. And it goes through the lens of immigrant guilt, to be productive means to toil, to suffer, and to drown in Google Calendar appointments. That one just like really hit home for me because I'm like freaking obsessed with my, Google calendar and it's like every single minute of the day is like mapped out and I'm like holy it's like when you read something you're like oh my god like how did how do they know me like you know so it's like it's just it's just you feel so seen you're like oh it's universal it's not just me like this other person yeah has like so perfectly elucidated the way that I feel yeah I don't like

Starting point is 00:28:37 that quote I'm glad it you it spoke to you but I don't you like it I just don't It's just so unhealthy in my mind. Oh, I agree. Sorry to put a label on it, but I'm just like, in this day and age, like, I can see why that's a thing, but I like don't like it at all. Well, yeah, I'm not saying it's healthy. I think it's just like, it's like a means of like coping, I guess or something like that. But you're just like, oh, like someone else is that way too. Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

Starting point is 00:29:04 Did you cut me off? Don't like it. I think another really common theme of immigrants and children of immigrants is just guilt, right? Like we kind of like touched upon it, but we didn't really put a label on it. It's such a powerful emotion. Yeah. And there's this really amazing article that was in the Washington Post that was called, But What Will People Say?

Starting point is 00:29:30 And the author says how as the first in my family to be born in the West, I've always had to navigate my feelings of guilt and have painful and difficult conversations with my immigrant parents about the choices I am making that are different from their expectations. And the guilt can be because of constant adaptation between two cultural influences, a phenomenon known as bicultural straddling. That was also helpful for me because I've never heard a phrase, like, being put to our state of being. Yeah, I've heard of like intersectionality, but I think that's like very broad, bi-cultural. bicultural straddling

Starting point is 00:30:08 bicultural straddling. Yeah, I mean, I feel like that's what I've experienced my entire life. Yeah. It's like, oh, going to school, like a mostly white neighborhood and, you know, doing all the things in school, join all the clubs and being like very American, like standardly American. And then going home and like really enjoying like, I don't know, fried rice. This is like kind of a

Starting point is 00:30:30 dumb explanation. She said stinky tofu. She's saying. said, I had to go to school with stinky tofu in my lunchbox. Yeah, I don't know, though. No, she didn't. It's kind of like... That's just, like, one dumb example, but it was very much bicultural straddling.

Starting point is 00:30:47 Or even just, like, another example is just like, my friends from school are friends with their parents. Mm-hmm. Huh. And their parents' friends. And they're not afraid of them. Right. They're, like, not afraid to, like, talk to them. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:04 Which, you know, like, I can understand. So, but like, I would say in many, like, immigrant households, it's just, like, a very much parent and child and obedience dynamic. Yes. And not, like, a friendship. It's, like, the literal definition of, like, in engineering when it's, like, parent-child relationships. Seriously.

Starting point is 00:31:24 One thing I've noticed now that I'm reflecting on it is that I'm only seven years older than you. But even in that, like, age gap, like, I see a lot of things where, like, for me, I feel like my path that I chose was like much more by the book. So for example, working in finance, even that was like a little bit outside of the norm because like that's not because that's not like a line of work that is like the typical like three accepted, you know, jobs of being an engineer, a lawyer or a doctor. So like even kind of like explaining that a little bit to my mom and like being like, no, I'm making the right choice.

Starting point is 00:32:06 I know what I'm doing. Like, this is what I've learned at school. And this is a, like, very viable career path for me. So, like, even doing that was a bit of a stretch. Then she was, like, fully bought in to, like, Goldman Sachs. And then having the conversation to be, like, actually, I'm leaving finance. I'm leaving Goldman Sachs. I'm leaving, like, the steady paycheck and the bonus behind.

Starting point is 00:32:28 And I'm going to be working at a company that is, like, barely a public company that builds social mobile games. And it's just like, you're going to build, like, phone games? Like, that was like, again, I had to then do the labor of, like, explaining all of that and, like, pushing against, you know, even just to, like, live your life, kind of and to do these jobs. But then you on the other end. But I also feel like, before we dive into, like, my context, like, at that point, you were, like, 25. But I also feel like there's this thing in, like, immigrant families, too, is that, and especially ours,

Starting point is 00:33:05 because we're super small and very tight knit in that way, is that like we feel a lot of responsibility to like explain our decisions or potentially like over-explain our decisions when it's really our life. I feel like the very like American like independent like mindset would be like, I'm going to be doing this. Like I'm going to do it and you're not going to stop me. Yes.

Starting point is 00:33:29 That's like a very American way of thinking. But because of this bicultural straddling, we still and the guilt and also, you know, the sacrifice that our family's made. Like, we still feel a very, like, large need to explain our decisions when, in fact, we were adults then and adults now. Well, it's a very well-studied phenomenon. It's the idea of, like, coming from a culture that is more communal-oriented, like,

Starting point is 00:33:53 communal decision-making versus individualistic decision-making. The USA is, like, the token. Exactly, the most individualist, like, oriented country. Personal human rights. Wait, I probably shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say that. The U.S. is the most individualistic. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:13 The most individualistic, the most capitalistic, like, for better or worse, I mean. Yeah. Which is where the bicultural straddling comes from. Yes. Yeah. Because, like, you feel like with your choices, like for my job, like, it's not just a choice for me, right? It's a choice that is, like, paying. not paying back, but like, it's a choice that everyone needs to be bought in on because

Starting point is 00:34:39 the only way you've gotten to where you've gotten in life is because everybody has invested so much in you. Oh my God. That's a good way of like explaining it, right? It is. That's why you think, like every single decision is so imbued with like a hundred years of like people doing things for you. That's so much pressure.

Starting point is 00:35:02 That's literally so much pressure to put on yourself. said that out loud. I've never like, yeah, said things. I don't love that. But, but it is like, it's verbalized. I know, but it is kind of verbalizing how I felt. Yeah. And probably how you felt in some ways. Yeah. Although I feel it less so now as like an almost 30 year old where I'm like, you've raised me to make these decisions. You, as in our family, have raised me to make these decisions. And at some point, You have to trust me that you've raised me in the right way to make the right decisions for myself.

Starting point is 00:35:38 I feel it less so now for a different reason. I feel it less so now because I am financially independent. And to quote Tinks, I like saw like a clip from her one of her podcasts. She called herself borderline wealthy. I kind of like that. I'm fully financially independent now. And that's why like I can like fund this investment period into ourselves. right where we're starting our own company we're bootstrapping it we are funding everything on our own

Starting point is 00:36:08 but that's the only reason why is because i've gone through at this point 15 years i have 15 years of experience working in finance working in technology and like really optimizing for optimizing for success and financial independence do you want to talk about me or no oh about you right what the point I was going to make is that right out of undergrad, you worked for LinkedIn. Yeah. But before then, don't forget, I very much wanted to be a doctor in college. Like, that was the more traditional route that I was going in. And she had to slice the mice brains. And then I worked at a neuroscience research lab at Mount Sinai, and I was secluded for many hours a day in a dark room imaging mice brains that I sliced.

Starting point is 00:36:56 Yes. And I was like, this research life is not for me. Yeah. But I was going to go down a very traditional path. I'm still obsessed with the fact that you had that internship. She was like literally like 19 and she was like working at Mount Sinai. I don't know. There's just so many things. I'm like so proud of you. I was really cool. I love my little badge. Yeah. It was an amazing. It's a it's a beautiful. And you wore flats. Yes I did. I wore jeans, skinny jeans and flats and like a buttoned up shirt. Yeah and a J crew button up. Yeah. I felt very adult. Yeah. She was so professional. But I guess yeah, I guess you did do like a lot of, you worked at Morgan Stanley in college too. Our mom recognized that name.

Starting point is 00:37:42 Yeah. I think going to LinkedIn was a bit of a stretch because it's not like a Google or like a meta. But I mean, it wasn't that big of a stretch. I had studied computer science. So I think our mom felt very comfortable with that degree or that type of degree so that I would be very employable. Because it's basically adjacent to slash is computer engineering. Yeah. So she's like, it's an engineering degree.

Starting point is 00:38:07 Yeah. I feel like that's one of the things that mom is still like the most proud of you for. Really? That you're an engineer. She brings it up all the time. Right? She does in the most random ways. Like Sheree will do like one random.

Starting point is 00:38:19 I'll hang up a picture frame. And our mom will be like, oh, it's because you're an engineer. She'll be like, my little engineer. I will all do something like that's a little bit related. Actually, not even, like, I'll do something like hardware related, you know? Yeah, that's like kind of technical. I'll fix the printer and she'll be like, you're such an engineer. I know, and then when I fix the printer, I get nothing.

Starting point is 00:38:43 I should be getting more credit because I'm not an engineer. And you should take that up. I'm a self-taught engineer. You should take that up with her. So I think this was already a very meaty episode where we kind of just like broke down like what it means to be the children of immigrants. What are some of the like implications? the mindset, the mental health, the guilt, the feelings behind all of it.

Starting point is 00:39:04 We talk so much. Like, I'm surprised by how much I had to say. Really? I knew this was going to be a good episode. I knew it was going to be tough. Like, this is not an easy thing to talk about. So I do think this warrants a part two, because we do want to dive into, like, obligations of being a good daughter, eldest daughter syndrome.

Starting point is 00:39:22 Syndrome. And, like, what it really means to be it, like, an immigrant, like an eldest immigrant child. And then maybe a young, you. younger immigrant child and what are the dynamics there? Let us know if that's something you guys want us to talk about or want us to see because I think this was already a very meaty episode and it deserves its own episode. Yeah, and I'm ready to talk about those things if you guys are. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode of the Tiger Sisters.

Starting point is 00:39:52 Thanks for being here. I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say. I really wanted to be a dialogue with all of us, with our community. like, comment and subscribe, especially this episode, comment. I want to know what you're thinking. And if you found this episode helpful, we would really appreciate it if you can send it to someone who might like it. Yeah, do it. And also rate us five stars. Thumbs up. Thumbs up. All right. See you next time. Bye.

Tiger Sisters - Our Upbringing as Harvard & Stanford MBA Grads

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