Tiger Sisters - Success isn’t linear. What I wish I knew at 29.

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi everyone, my name is Michelle. I'm currently at TikTok working on special projects. I started my career actually mostly in investing. I did private equity and then growth equity investing for about over a decade. I'm 29 years old now. What advice would you give to your 29-year-old self? You see a lot of people around you doing interesting things and I was always like, how do I be part of all of that? It was very good for having strong drive, but it really wasn't good from mental health. You know, there's a lot of anxiety right now, especially with, you know, just graduating and a lot of people are still job searching. Life is very nonlinear. Good things happen to different people at different time, different stage in their life. What is a failure that you are

Starting point is 00:00:39 most grateful for and what did you learn from it? I felt like my life was shattering in front of me. Today we interviewed Michelle Huang, who's head of special projects at TikTok, used to be an investor at Blackstone and also worked in the office of the COO at Luro Piana. Really just a Renaissance woman. Truly. She gets very personal with us in this conversation. and share some of her life philosophies that apply both to her personal and also professional career. Yeah, this one really got me thinking and reflecting. I'm Sherey and I'm Gene and we're the Tiger Sisters. This is season three of Tiger Sisters where we interview CEOs, founders, investors, and business leaders.

Starting point is 00:01:31 We have the interview coming up and right after that, Jean and I do takeaways, where we share some of our learnings and the things that stood out to us the most, kind of like a business case study. We'll jump straight into the interview right after this break. Hey guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on sisters matcha.com. We have sweatshirts and t-shirts that we designed yourselves. Go check it out. And please rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. These ratings are so important for the distribution and survival of Tiger Sisters Podcast. Thank you for your support. So could you please introduce yourself for our audience? Of course. So happy to be here.

Starting point is 00:02:08 Hi, everyone. My name is Michelle. I'm currently. at TikTok, working on special projects. And prior to joining TikTok about four years ago, I started my career actually mostly in investing. I did private equity and then growth equity investing for about a decade. Cool. I'm 29 years old now. What advice would you give to your 29-year-old self?

Starting point is 00:02:32 Well, first of all, I'm very obvious. I wish I were 29. The one advice I'll give my 29-year-old self would be just to be more patient. I think when I was at your age, I also just graduated from Stanford Business School then. And I think I was just very anxious, I think professionally, personally, just doing the next thing, joining the next big thing, being part of the next thing. And it was very anxious. I don't think I was grounded at the time at all. And you see a lot of people around you, you know, doing interesting things.

Starting point is 00:03:06 And I was always like, how do I be part of all of that? And honestly, it just wasn't very good. It was very good for having strong drive, but it really wasn't good for mental health and all that. And I think just over time, I realize, I think life is very not linear. And just be patient. Good things happen to good people. If you keep doing whatever it is that you like and it fits you, like, good things will come. So, and good things happen to different people at different time, different stage in their life.

Starting point is 00:03:38 and you'll have your moment and who knows when it is, but you'll have it. Thank you for saying that. That resonates very deeply. I think me and then also my classmates. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of anxiety right now, especially with, you know, just graduating and a lot of people are still job searching, especially given the macro environment, macroeconomy. And so, yeah, definitely that anxiety and also like looking around at peers is very much a thing

Starting point is 00:04:02 when you're comparing yourself to your class. Yeah, I think the first few years coming out of business school, especially for, for me was tough because I think that was when anxiety was at its highest. Yeah. And also 29 is also a year where everyone's turning 30 soon. So it's almost worse than being 30. Exactly. But once you realize, so that's like giving advice at 29 is very interesting.

Starting point is 00:04:25 Because once you pass that, is that that anxiety, that anticipation, that's actually the most painful. But once you cross that, your life is, life goes on and life is great. So, and you just fully embrace it. Actually, it's only the beginning. Exactly. It really is. And I really think life is so, so long.

Starting point is 00:04:43 And I'm also saying this to myself because I am way more than 29 now. But I do think, you know, people reinvent themselves all the time. Like, I think really you see a lot of people who really hit their strides at just different times in life. Yeah. So be patient. I love that. So the next question is kind of a 180. It's about failure moments.

Starting point is 00:05:05 Yes. But I do really like this framing. So what is a failure that you are most grateful for and what did you learn from it? Okay. I'm going to say something that sounds really, that is very personal, but it also sounds very, very cheesy. And I really sounds like first world problem, but I will share it anyway. So this is when I was 20, this is when I was 26, 25 years old. So at the, I'll just give you.

Starting point is 00:05:35 I just met you, but I'll give you the full background. So I was dating my college boyfriend for a very long time. He, my, I had grew up in Boston at that point, and he was going to Harvard Medical School. My dream at the time when I was 26 was, I was going to go to Harvard Business School and we were going to, you know, get married and live in White Pickett's House. So a couple of things happened that fall. One is we actually broke up. So I felt like my life was, like, was shattering in front of me. And two, I also didn't get into HBS.

Starting point is 00:06:11 So I think, again, all of this really sounds like first world problems at this point, but I think for a 26-year-old, it was a very big too. Yeah. It just meant like I thought my life, the course of my life had to change, at least. But I think just learning a lot about resilience, right? Just, you know, how do you bounce back from it? How do you, you know, then change a course of life? life. I think there was a lot that, just really believing in, you know, like what's meant to be.

Starting point is 00:06:41 Yeah. And I used to think, you know, there's a will, there's a way. I think I now used to think just embrace what's in front of you and just keep going on the path that you're on. Yeah. I really appreciate you sharing that. I think probably just like the hardest part is having like a vision of what things might be like. Yeah. And trying your hardest to make that work. But then the universe might have different plans. Yes. At the end of the day. And just embracing the universe. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:07 That's really beautiful. And I think, I mean, I'm taking a lot away, a lot away from that more than you realize. And I know a lot of people watching this will as well. Yeah. Well, thank you. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you. The next question is around hot takes.

Starting point is 00:07:20 So what is a hot take that you have or a belief that you have that, you know, might be a little bit more contrarian, either about your work, your industry, or any hot take you have? I really do believe in, like, good things happen to good people. I think also just kind of tying a lot of things together, right? Like you really have to look at it in the long run. I think maybe in the short run, you know, cutting a few corners here and there or, you know, saying things, doing some things in a sort of way can be really beneficial. But if you really look at it in the long run, like you just really good things happen to good people.

Starting point is 00:07:55 So like just really keeping that longer term mentality. I believe that. A few more questions. This one's more fun. Okay. So this one's about travel. What is a travel recommendation that you have, either a city or a place that you like to go to when you're taking a break from work? So I'll give you my most recent travel tip.

Starting point is 00:08:16 So I was in, I was in Scandinavia for the first time this summer. So it was also because it was so hot in New York. So I need to go somewhere cooler. Plus, people always say Scandinavians are the happiest people in the world. So I need to check it out for myself why they're so happy. So it was lovely. I spent two weeks across Stockholm and Copenhagen.

Starting point is 00:08:37 And I also discovered the secret happiness. Which is? Can't share. Which is, I guess, hot take there is the reason why the Scandis are so happy, apparently after talking to a bunch of them, is they have low expectations.

Starting point is 00:08:54 So when, it's because the winters are so long and when there's first sight of spring, they get so happy. happy when this and because they're so the summer days are so um there's so few of them so when it's a sunny day people are so happy so they really treasure a lot of these things and uh and plus it's a very very peaceful uh society and yeah just very happy people also staninavia during the summer is just so gorgeous the vibes are great yeah the vibes are it's midsummer the vibes

Starting point is 00:09:26 are top so the next question is around your first job so what was your first what was your first job and how did it shape your work ethic? And this could be, you know, your first job as a kid or your first job out of school. Yeah, so my first job, so I did, maybe I'll give you my first two jobs. So I did consulting right after college for about a little bit under a year. And then I did private equity. So I was in New York first and then I moved to Hong Kong. In terms of how it shaped my, you said, work ethic. Yeah. I think a lot of it was actually just like working really hard. The grassland.

Starting point is 00:10:08 Yeah. I think one of the thing was, I think one is in consulting because everything was new. So it felt like for me, it really felt like I got paid to just learn a lot. So I did have that intellectual curiosity. So it felt like, yes, it was a lot of work, but also just felt like playground because everything was new. So I had a lot of drive to just learn new things. And then in my next job in private equity, it was a brand, brand, brand, new industry and I really didn't have any prior experience in it.

Starting point is 00:10:37 A lot of my cohort who came in actually had more finance background. So again, a lot of how it shaped me really just grown into a new environment and really learning new things and just giving yourself the confidence that you can't pick up things. Growth mindset and very much like a willingness and a desire to learn and grow and do that over again. Yes, yes, yes. You can always pick up new skills, reinventing. and your salt. I love that. So the last question for you is around conference 2024. So what do you hope to get out of conference or what are you looking forward to? And what is the most valuable part

Starting point is 00:11:15 of conference 2024? I think what conference, at least for me, is it does a really good job bringing together people from really different walks of likes because there's a certain conferences, conference with a C that, you know, focus on whether, you know, a subgroup, like whether there's a certain investors or entrepreneurs or healthcare. Yeah, so the industry. I think this one almost feels like there's no particular agenda in terms of what they're trying to do, but just really bring together a group of very interesting people and you let you let people form these connections organically and like a lot of good things happen.

Starting point is 00:11:56 That's well said. Very well put. I feel like the talks that we've had and the conversations you just have over dinner, very organic and people that I normally wouldn't talk to. It's different when it's like industry focused. This is one purely on tech or AI. But so many different people are coming and I think there's the most learning there. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Awesome. So that's it. Oh, well, thank you. Yay. Thank you. What a great conversation with Michelle. Yeah. I loved watching you do the conversation while you were filming it. It was really, it was really fun to, like, listen to it back, too. Yeah. Before we get to the

Starting point is 00:12:31 main takeaways, please remember to like, comment, and subscribe. And if you could rate us on Apple podcast and Spotify, it would mean the world to us. And it only takes a few seconds to do. Five stars. Awesome. We'll be right back with the takeaways right after this break. Hey, everyone. Quick break to share something special, Sisters Macha. We've launched limited batches of ceremonial grade, single estate, single cultivar, macha, straight from the family farm Shari worked on in Japan. It's pure, authentic, and crafted with intention. Head to SistersMacha.com to grab yours before it sells out. Make matcha your daily ritual for lasting energy and focus. So the first thing that I noticed in the conversation with Michelle is how

Starting point is 00:13:14 in tune she is with herself. And I think of the guests that we've had on the season of Tiger sisters, she's like very emotionally aware of how she feels in each and every situation, whether it's personal or professional. I think one of the main conversation topics that really stood out to me was when she shared a really personal anecdote of when she and her boyfriend at the time broke up and it really changed the trajectory of where she thought she wanted to go because she had a grand plan for her career. And this was kind of part of that grand plan. And Yeah, she thought she was going to be an HBS girlie. Yes.

Starting point is 00:13:55 But then she ended up being a Stanford GSB girlie instead. Which is also okay. Which is, it's good too, you know? It's a good school too. It's also a good school. I mean, I didn't really expect her to go that deep. And she's honestly like, we just met a few minutes ago, but I will go there. And I really appreciated that because it shows like a little bit more about like what

Starting point is 00:14:14 she cared about and honestly a very vulnerable moment. Yeah, I think it's also, I don't know, I thought it was very very. noticeable to me that she was one of the few people that actually brought in her personal life into the conversation in a way that wasn't related to like her career directly at all. But she was like, this is something that had a major effect on me and my life and therefore my career. Like it's, you know, because life is not that cut and dry. You can't just separate your life life from your career life, your work life.

Starting point is 00:14:52 It's all intertwined. Actually, that's kind of what our podcast is all about. Yeah. It's like your work life and your personal life, especially if you're someone who is a go-getter. And like your work life and your personal life are kind of mixed. Like it's on your mind as much as you try to separate it. And Michelle, and I think we are those people who kind of have it intertwined. And if you are too, it's just it goes to show how they're kind of related.

Starting point is 00:15:22 And there's always trade-offs. I so relate to her plan because even when she set it out loud to us, I was like, wow, that's a perfect plan because she was saying how her boyfriend at the time was going to Harvard Medical School or was accepted Harvard Medical School. And so she was like, oh, it would be perfect for me to then at the same time go to Harvard Business School so then we can move to Boston together. And then we can have this like, you know, beautiful like student life together. And like, I was like, wow, that does that too. I saw that. I saw that life for her as well. But then she was like, yeah, that. then I didn't get into Harvard Business School.

Starting point is 00:15:56 And I broke up with my boyfriend. And so I could just, I relate to like the younger version of her so much because that's just very, very unmooring. And I feel like that's also kind of what happened to me recently. Yeah. You know, it's like two huge things happened to me in 2024, which is that one, I left my corporate job of seven years at Snapchat and left corporate life overall, which is the only thing I've ever known, really, aside from student life. And then two, I ended my engagement of a

Starting point is 00:16:27 relationship of eight years. So like both of those are, I wouldn't even say equally. I think the personal one is even bigger. I don't know, but it. It is bigger, I think. Yeah. But like, it's just very unmooring because then you're like, who am I? You know, because so much of your identity is tied up in like, one, your career. If you're like a very career or, oriented, ambitious person. And then also so much of your identity is built up with your partner. Like so many of your friend groups and the way that people, a lot of people over the last eight years, like when they met me, they only ever knew me as a partnered person.

Starting point is 00:17:08 Right. Like in context with this one other person. Yeah. So you're just like, who am I? Like I'm not head of product at SNAP anymore. I'm not, you know, Gene and X person anymore. It's just... Who watches my stories sometimes?

Starting point is 00:17:29 I think that's awkward. Why? I don't know why. Like, I see this person. I see my IG stories and I was like, what are you doing? I'm like, Ariana, what are you doing here? Like, you shouldn't be watching my stories anymore. But, yeah, I'm like, who am I?

Starting point is 00:17:47 Yeah. I mean, I think it's real. It's like so, it's a untethering, untethered feeling, you know? As Michelle was saying, it's like when you have a vision for a career or personal life or like the way that it's tied, like not having that anymore is a strange feeling. Yeah. And I also really like the other thing she said, which is that different things happen for different people at different times, different good things, different bad things. Just different things happen in different periods of your life just because it didn't happen for you. at a certain point in your life the same time as your friends doesn't mean it's not going to happen

Starting point is 00:18:24 and it doesn't mean that the timeline that you're on is not what is best for you. Sorry for all the double negatives, but I think you get my meaning. I got it. No, it's clicking for me. Yeah. And can I just, I want to quote her specifically. She said, I really think life is so, so long. People reinvent themselves all the time now.

Starting point is 00:18:45 You see a lot of people who hit their strides at different times in life. And I really love that. And it made me think about my own past where, you know, we're doing sisters worldwide now. We're doing sisters macho. We're doing tiger sisters. We have our own startup. Yes. And what I don't talk about a lot is that this is not my first startup.

Starting point is 00:19:04 This is actually my second startup. This ain't her first rodeo. It's ain't my first rodeo. I've fallen off the horse before. But yeah, I actually had my own startup back in 2016 that I ran for. a year. We had customers. I worked on it full time. I had an entire team and it failed. I shut it down after about a year because I was like, this is not on the path that I want it to be and it's not what I'm going to do after business school. So like I had set up parameters to try to make the

Starting point is 00:19:37 experiment or to try to make it as safe as possible for me to fail. Yeah. But regardless, I failed. So this is actually my like second go at having a startup. Things are different this time. Yeah. You got me. I got my bud right here. And it is, things are different though. That actually is the main difference.

Starting point is 00:20:01 Yes. But wait, that things are different or me? Well, you. Oh. Duff. Well, also things are different that you also have like seven years of operating experience. Yes. in a different product role, a much more, like, highly visible product role.

Starting point is 00:20:20 Totally. And like in that period between then and now, like, I've done like a hundred million dollar deals. Like, I've done, I've run major teams. Like, I've built up entire business units. And I had never done that when I started my first company. Right. It kind of is like what Voo was saying. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:35 Voo was saying that he did Y Combinator twice. Ah, yeah. The first time he was 18 and 19. And the second time he was 22, 23. And he was like, those two times were a world of difference. Yeah. And because we were like, oh, what happened with your first company? He was like, I was 18.

Starting point is 00:20:53 It failed. We'll link the conversation with you. It was an earlier podcast. Great conversation. We'll link it here if you guys are interested in listening to that. Yeah. But yeah, I think it just goes to show just because you fail at something one time doesn't mean that you're not destined to do it.

Starting point is 00:21:10 Yeah. And it also, I think it's really powerful. too because then you have to have a perspective of like wanting to get back on the horse like going with this analogy not your first rodeo you fill off the horse you want to get back on the horse and like try it again it's like a persistence grit resilience mindset yeah also I love horses I don't know if it was because it was me talking to michel and like we were just like bouncing off one another like the vibes were totally there and like how we talk to one another and like it seems like both like subscribe to kind of what you were saying like what will happen happens and timing and

Starting point is 00:21:51 like I think I don't even know she said it or I said it but I was just like oh it's like what the universe has planned for you so like at the conversation like went there and I'm like really glad that it did because oftentimes like I really believe in like what will happen will happen like karma and all this stuff and I've talked to a few leaders about this but like people don't really talk about it, you know? Yeah. Well, there's the idea of like a higher power. Yeah. Or destiny. Yeah. One of the associations that I had was like, what is the formula for happiness? Mm-hmm. And like I, like, somewhere, like where people like, happiness equals like expectations minus reality and how big that delta is. And so I thought that was just like a really interesting,

Starting point is 00:22:37 like another association that I had. Yeah. Well, so she actually brought that up when we asked her about her favorite travel recommendation. And she said it was like Scandinavia, right? And they were happy because they had lower expectations or something like. Or like something with like the weather or like whether like you know what I'm saying that it's like dark there most of the year. And so when they do have a sunny day, they're so happy for it. But because they expect a gloomy day or like a day without sun most of the time that

Starting point is 00:23:06 they like so much more appreciate the sunny days. Yeah. Which is really powerful. I like that a lot. It's like an analogy of itself, in and of itself. Yes. Yes. And so, yeah, happiness equals reality minus expectation and how big that or small that delta is.

Starting point is 00:23:25 Yeah. So if you have expectations are lower and reality is there, you're very happy. I think it's also back to what she was saying earlier. It's also an element of letting go of certain dreams or path. that you had seen yourself on when they are not your path. Or it doesn't pan out? Yeah, when it doesn't pan out. Like if something isn't meant for you, then being able to like let go of that so that you can

Starting point is 00:23:54 receive so that you can receive like the future blessings and the future opportunities. Yes. And like have your eyes open to that as opposed to still being fixated on like what did it happen for you. Well, you know, there's a Helen Keller quote that talks about. I know. Dude, she's just... I got quotes up here. She got quotes.

Starting point is 00:24:15 No, it's perfect. Is it Archduke Ferdinand? No, it's not Archduke Ferdinand. It's a Helen Keller quote where she goes, when one door closes, another window of opportunity opens, but you have to be searching for the other window of opportunity rather than looking at the closed door. Yeah. I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically the Helen Keller quote. Did she really say that or is it one of those things that are like attributed to Mark Twain? The Dalai Lama said.

Starting point is 00:24:44 Mark Twain said. Helen Keller said. Albert Einstein said, no, I think she said it. Did you do a report on Helen Keller once? Or was that me? I learned about Helen Keller. We watched the movie in like third grade. She was a big part of our curriculum on Long Island.

Starting point is 00:25:01 I don't know why. She was. She was, she was. We were heavy on Helen Keller. She's inspiring. And also the three. three song. Move your hips.

Starting point is 00:25:15 Shush, girl. Shut your lips. Do the hell and call in your hips. That said, shush, girls. No, anyone? I know that song. What is the hand signal? I'm not even going to try it for 303, but that was also my seventh grade.

Starting point is 00:25:30 Okay. So, yeah, it's in you. It's relevant. Deep. Yes. The other thing that Michelle talked about that I loved is that she said how her first job, what it ultimately gave her is the confidence that you can pick things up, or her first couple jobs, because she said first she did consulting and after that she moved into PE,

Starting point is 00:25:51 where she was kind of like a peg below everyone because she hadn't done finance before getting into PE. So she was like everyone else was really practiced and making all these models and they had basically done the job before or a version of the job. And she was like automatically behind on the first day she started. Yeah. But she was like, that did was it gave me the confidence to know that I can do I can learn anything. Mm-hmm. I think that's like such a powerful mindset for, I don't know, like any young person is that like, you can pick things up, you can learn them.

Starting point is 00:26:24 And like if you stop learning and like growing, then like that's kind of like the death to like, I don't know, your curiosity. The death knell. What's that? It's like the blow, the death, the blow of death. Oh. Final pause. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:26:39 I mean, also something that. that we didn't really mention in the interview is that like how many experiences Michelle has had that like shape who she is. She is so accomplished. Yeah. And I'm like and humble and humble because like she doesn't even talk about it. So like you wouldn't even know. But like I just kind of want to read off like all the varied experiences that she's had. Like Jean says, she used to work in consulting, private equity at Blackstone. She worked in the office of the COO of Loro Piana, which I feel like we need another conversation with her because like, no, I want to know about that. We didn't even get to talk about it.

Starting point is 00:27:13 Like, that's so sick. Yeah. And does she still get discounts? Just kidding. I don't know if they do discounts. But yeah, she also most recently works at TikTok in the special projects office, which is just so cool. And you can see from these like different experiences, like how she grows and learns on the job. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:35 So she's had a special project. which from what I know is an extremely important and highly influential role that's like shaping the strategy and direction. Yeah, the direction of TikTok. She's so cool. Michelle is also a GSB grad. So like off screen and then also after the interview, like a bunch of us went out to dinner together. Yeah. And you can't really see it on screen.

Starting point is 00:27:57 But like we were talking to her and also other people who are GSB grads. And it's just like a really, it reminded me like the network of GSB is far larger than I. had thought because like I have my classmates but then it's like so fun connecting with alums too yeah especially like at these conferences where like we don't I don't know anyone I don't have anything in common with them but then like this thing just comes up that I'm like oh I recently graduated GSP they're like oh I went to GSP it's just like so topical yeah especially because I just since graduated and we also have another interview coming up with John Redgrave who is another Stanford GSP graduate the familiarity and the like inside jokes like are totally a thing

Starting point is 00:28:37 I don't know if you have that at Harvard, but we have that at Stanford. And so I do think it's really cool. They have like these like classes that everyone like talks about. Yes. And like it is very it is very cute. It's giving it's giving Dartmouth vibes. Oh, okay. She has another reference to an Ivy League that she has to bring up.

Starting point is 00:28:57 Oh my God. But that's what it reminds me of. It does. Like everyone has like really strong associate really strong positive associations with it. Yeah. So like it's like if you. meet another Dartmouth person, then you have to like talk about the fact that you're from Dartmouth together.

Starting point is 00:29:11 Yes. And like you just have like word vomit. You can't stop yourself. It's like a compulsion. So I feel like you guys are the same at the Sanford Chia's. It's like a compulsion. You have to talk. Thanks.

Starting point is 00:29:21 I think. I mean, it, it does speak to the power of the culture that they feel. Well, the class is so small. Yeah. That like it feels very familial. Yeah. You're just like naturally obsessed. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:34 Naturally obsessed. And then the one thing I wanted to close on. was just a quote that Michelle said that I really liked. And I just want to leave it there for everyone to kind of sit with at the end. And she said, how do you change the course of your life? Embrace what's in front of you. I love that. I will be journaling that.

Starting point is 00:29:55 And thank you about that for the next days. Thank you. Yeah. She just had like wisdom. She had wisdom. She had bangers. Yeah. She was just saying them casually.

Starting point is 00:30:05 I was like, wow, she's really thoughtful. She's really something. Yes. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode of Tiger Sisters. Before we close off, please remember to like, comment, and subscribe. And if you're listening to us on Apple Podcast or Spotify, we would so appreciate if you gave us a five-star review. It only takes a few seconds and it means the world to us.

Starting point is 00:30:31 It helps a lot. Thanks, guys. Bye.

Tiger Sisters - Success isn’t linear. What I wish I knew at 29.

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