Tiger Sisters - The #1 Small Talk Rule That Makes People Like You (Stanford Communication Professor)

Episode Date: April 20, 2026

Thank you to Shopify for sponsoring this video. Start now at https://shopify.com/tigersisters Thank you SoFi for sponsoring this video. Sign up here: https://www.sofi.com/TigerPlusSign up for our newsletter here and be the first to access our upcoming LIVE EVENT: https://cherieluo.substack.com/subscribeHave you ever walked away from a conversation with someone and thought: “how are they so magnetic?” Or, have you ever left a meeting and wondered: “why did I say it like that?”Today, we’re joined by Professor Matt Abrahams – a world-renowned communication expert, Stanford GSB lecturer, host of the podcast Think Fast, Talk Smart, and Cherie’s former TEDx coach – to break down the science (and strategy) behind how to talk to anyone.Tune in for lessons on: ✅ How to get out of your head and connect in real time ✅ The #1 mistake killing your communication ✅ Matt’s “What, So What, Now What” framework for confidence on the spot ✅ Tips to get in (and out of!) small talk ✅ The 5 stories everyone should have ready (for networking, interviews, and life) ✅ How to take your networking – and Zoom interviews – to the next level Plus, we get tactical with real exercises you can start using this week: from recording yourself, to building your personal “story bank,” to becoming what Matt calls a “communication athlete.”Consider this your guide to thinking faster, speaking smarter, and connecting better 🤓📝PS… Tiger Fam: We ran into a few technical difficulties this time and there were a few dips in audio levels, but we worked extremely hard to make it the best episode possible! What did you think? Did you even notice? We’d love your feedback!Timestamps:00:44: Episode Intro 01:35: Introducing Matt Abrahams 01:54: What actually makes someone easy to talk to? 03:40: Why Matt records his students in different scenarios 05:40: 5 fundamental stories everyone should have in their arsenal 09:34: Matt’s go-to story… about toothpaste 10:45: How to prepare to be spontaneous 11:30: Being a “communication athlete” 13:30: The Pin Drop Principle’s techniques 14:30: The best way to have successful small talk 17:38: How to get OUT of small talk 21:34: How to judge yourself less while talking 22:45: An improv game to try (“shout the wrong name”)24:00: Why memorizing is so bad 30:42: “What, so what, now what” framework to speak on the spot 34:10: Bad vs. good apologies 39:20: How to communicate while networking 41:45: The science and art of “biz rizz” 42:50: Tips for connecting on virtual meetings and calls 45:32: Closing thoughts🐯👯‍♀️ We’re the Tiger Sisters — your Wall Street & Silicon Valley big sisters Decoding Money • Power • Love✨ New episodes every Monday | Shorts all week ✨💌 Want to partner with us? Sponsorships: [e-mail] trust us?▫️ Cherie Brooke Luo — 100M+ views demystifying tech, finance & MBAs▫️ Jean Luo — ex-Goldman Sachs, ex-Snapchat exec, 50+ AI patents, startup investor▫️ Together: 4 Ivy League degrees • built billion-dollar products • two startups — decoded for youWhat you’ll get (and keep):▫️ 🚀 Ivy League cheat sheets — no $250K tuition▫️ Personal finance playbooks (salary, investing, negotiation)▫️ Networking scripts behind $100M+ deals & job offers▫️ Real conversations with CEOs, operators & investors▫️ Mindset resets — clarity without the pricey coach▫️ Systems for career, money, and long-term growth💛 LET’S CONNECT~ CHERIE ~Instagram — /cherie.brookeTikTok — /cherie.brookeSubstack — cherieluo.substack.comLinkedIn — /cherie-luo~ JEAN ~Instagram — /jeanluo_LinkedIn — /jeanluo👉 Hit Subscribe & tap the 🔔, then leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review on Spotify & Apple Podcasts. It takes 10 seconds and makes a massive difference in helping new people discover Tiger Sisters.🛍️ Items:🍵 Sisters Matcha — www.sistersmatcha.com🌀 Everything else — https://amzn.to/3z0dx5b

Your brain is like a computer. A computer CPU has only limited bandwidth. This is why, I want to bust a myth here, memorizing is so bad. So I tell my students it's about connection, not perfection. Okay, this is already so, so good. Yeah. I have feelings, but then I also have feelings about my feelings. Many of us run around with that volume turned up to 11, and that gets in the way of our communications.

What? So what? Now what? Like, wow, could we do this every week? Yeah. I'm Shiree. I'm Gene. I'm Matt. And we're the Tiger Sisters. We are your Wall Street and Silicon Valley Big Sisters.

And we're a top 10 business podcast bringing late night sister talk meets boardroom strategy. Have you ever left a conversation and immediately been like, oh my God, why did I say it that way? Communicating clearly, confidently, and effectively is something we've discussed before. But today, we're taking it to the next level with Professor Matt Abrams, a world-renowned communications expert, lecturer at Stanford GSB, author, and my former coach for my TED Talk. At the end of this episode, you will have all the tools and frameworks that you need the next time you're making small talk at a dinner table, next time you're networking, or even when you're making that big presentation.

And you'll have saved $250,000 by getting all of the key lessons from Matt's perennially sold-out class at Stanford Business School. Yes, guys, this is a true crash course, and we're going to teach you how to think on your feet, how to calm your nerves, and how to network and above all, how to talk to anyone. Let's get into it. Hi, Matt. Hey, great to be with you, Sharia, and Jean. Thanks so much for coming to the Tiger Sisters podcast.

I am thrilled to be here. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. Okay, Matt, so let's dive in to the challenge of how to talk to anyone. What actually makes someone easy to talk to? Is it confidence, curiosity, charisma, or something else? I think it's all those seas. I think we have to be confident in ourselves and in our presence in the room. We have to be curious. Curiosity is a great lead-in to most communication. And while charisma is something that we're not quite sure exactly what it is, I mean, we can definitely feel it, but in terms of dissecting it, it's this idea that we have a presence, some energy, some interest, and that's what really draws people to us. And it also means not being. distracted. It means leaning in physically. There's so much that goes into what makes somebody interesting to talk to. And I challenge everybody to just pay attention to the people you're

interested in talking to you. What is it that they're doing? What do you notice? And from that, you can begin, not to copy them, but to build some of those behaviors into your own communication. So, Matt, why do some people feel like you're instantly safe to open up to them versus other people, even if they're really, really nice, you feel intimidated by them. You don't feel comfortable talking to them. If you aren't already engaged in a conversation, we're relying on people's nonverbal presence, what they do with their bodies. If we're open, if we're leaning forward, if we're paying attention and looking at people, these are all signals that I'm here for you and I'm present. If I'm distant, if I'm looking away, if I'm crossing my arm, these all send

signals. There's no one correlate, like crossing arms means I shouldn't talk to that or I don't want to be talked to. But it's the amalgamation. It's all of them together send signals. And that's why it's important for all of us to be aware of how we show up in our nonverbal presence. At Stanford's Business School, where I teach strategic communication, all of my students are digitally recorded in different communication situations. And while it's very stressful, I tell people it's like going to the dentist. Most people don't like going, but they're really glad they've been. after people watch themselves, they become more aware. The reality is we're not that aware of what we do with our bodies when we communicate.

So seeing it and then changing it can make us be more approachable. In the academic world, we call this immediacy. It's you want to be immediately present with someone, and that's what's really inviting. Okay, and so in this class, is there a common reaction that your students have when they watch themselves back? Well, besides cringe, it's yes. So the biggest thing is what we call the perception gap. People come back, come all the time and say, I appeared more confident than I felt. And the reason for that is we have a whole bunch of insight into what's going on in our bodies and our minds that others don't.

So I know what I was intending to say versus what I said. I feel my heart pounding and my knees shaking, but none of that comes across. So one of the biggest learnings people take away is that those internal feelings and states aren't always translated. into what we do. So it's actually a big confidence boost for my students. And I encourage everybody listening and watching to record yourself and watch. And I'll share exactly how I make my students do it. First, they watch without listening. So they just see the nonverbal presence. Oh, wow. And then they listen without watching. So they hear what their voice does. And then they watch all, to get both together. And each time they gain insight. And again, painful. But the learning

is transformational. Okay, this is already so, so good. Yeah, this is so useful. So what do you have them say when they film? Do they like read something? The very first time they do it, we teach our students to storytelling. And as part of our class, we believe that there are five fundamental stories that everybody in business should be able to tell. And one is the pie in the face story where you embarrassed yourself or something didn't go well, but you learned something.

The crucible story where you were really put to the test and you had to resolve something. So there are five choices. Students pick one of them. And it's a two to three minute story. We work on what makes for a good story. How do you bring a motion? And that's what we have them watch for the first time. I like that assignment because, one, there's variety.

Not everybody's saying the same thing. And two, it's a genuine true story so people can be authentic because we like to start off talking about authenticity, warmth, et cetera. So everybody listening and watching, think about a story you can tell and record yourself. I'm certain you guys watch your friends. I'm certain you guys watch your videos and see what you're doing and learn for it. Yeah, it's a very useful teaching. We're mostly seated, though.

Well, you can do it seated. You can do it standing. You're going to learn a lot either way. Yeah. I've actually done this exercise. Sorry to, I never shared with you, but I took strategic communications. Yes, I know from my colleagues. Yes, with Alison Kluger and Bert.

And I've actually done this exercise before. Yeah. And it is so crazy, the different ways that you can perceive yourself without sound, with sound or both combined, because if you're just focusing on the body language, you can see where you're doing really well or what's lacking, and you can focus on the visual aspect. Yeah, our voice distracts us. And similarly, our movements distract us from hearing what our voice is doing. So taking the time to do that. And again, for my students, it's nine minutes out of their day, but it's a very valuable nine minutes.

And when you film the students, are they presenting in front of all the other classmates? So for this particular assignment, we have them up in front of half the class. We baby steps towards larger audiences because a larger audience can be intimidating. So part of what we're trying to do in the whole course is build confidence. And so we start a little small and then graduate as we go. Yeah, that is so cool. I can't believe you never told me about this. I see the learning goes one way.

What is this? Actually, see if you can get a copy of that video. And then you've got some leverage. There you go. Beginning of the class, end of the class. you can see also how much I improved. Well, absolutely. So my students, they redo that first presentation as their last presentation.

But the idea is that they apply everything they've learned over the course so they can see the difference. Because it's very empowering, I think, when you leave a class feeling like I've actually made a lot of progress. Not to say that there isn't more progress to be made. I think all of us can continue to evolve our communication. But it's a very powerful reminder that in just an academic quarter how much I've improved. Yeah. I mean, if you're listening or watching this conversation right now, I urge you to take 30 minutes from your Saturday or your Sunday to do this exercise. I know it sounds like, oh, that sounds good in practice, but like actually do this exercise because the learnings from it, because how else will you know how you come across?

You know, like you don't really get that feedback in real time or you're talking to people. No one's going to tell you that you're like very closed off. But if you can actually do this exercise yourself and self-analyze or with a trusted friend you can share it with and get feedback from me. them, I think this makes a world of a difference. Absolutely. And that feedback part is so important. We, even though we're seeing it ourselves, we're not perceiving it as somebody else might. So getting feedback from a trusted other makes a lot of sense. I'm sure there's a lot of feedback going on between the two of you. And that's helpful, right? Yeah. There's a lot of sit up straight. Remind each other to sit up straight. It's a lifelong battle. One of the greatest ways to do that is just pull your shoulder blades down.

when you pull the shoulder blades down, it forces you to sit up straight. We're asking the right person. Seriously. What is the idea behind having the story ready? Like, why? So leaders are often in a situation. So it's premised on the fact that story really can help move, motivate, and inspire. And as leaders, we should have stockpiled some stories that we can pull in at any point.

So I have a story that I love to use all the time. The biggest fight my wife and I have ever had is over toothpaste. And it usually gets that reaction like that's ridiculous. And then I'll tell you the truth. And this is a true story. My wife's a roller and I'm a squeezer. And there's nothing worse to a roller than a squeezer because we ruin that work. But this story, one, it builds curiosity.

You're like, what? This is crazy. But I can use that story to then talk about lots of different things. I can talk about respect. I can talk about listening. I can talk about knowing your audience. So having these stories as starters that you're comfortable with allows you to feel better in the moments where I have to inspire, motivate, persuade. So we're teaching our students

to start cataloging and stockpiling early on. That is so smart. That is so strategic. But I think a lot of people with social anxiety can benefit from already having some of these anecdotes pre-planned. 100%. And think about a job interview. If you go into a job interview and you think about, hey, here's some data I might need to share or could share. Here's a good story or to, or here's a testimonial from a previous boss or a tribute I got. Having those at the ready help, you know, the thing that I teach that is often most counterintuitive is you can prepare to be spontaneous. And that sounds strange. It sounds like it's disingenuous. But think of an athlete. An athlete does a tremendous amount of drills so that when they're in the moment, they can respond

spontaneously. We can do the same thing. We can, just like an athlete goes to the gym and works out, we can stockpile our stories. We can do practice drills with AI. There are all these things we can do to help us get ready. So when we're in the moment, we can respond appropriately and be really present. So we're not in our head saying, oh, my goodness, what I'm going to say? I just pull that in and then I can have that really present connection.