Tiger Sisters - The Secret Power of Siblings ft. Mike & Paul Rabil, Founders of the Premier Lacrosse League

Starting point is 00:00:00 Sports is like kind of the last great unifier. With the league MVP, two-time, that's Paul Rable, the face of lacrosse. Sports is the thing that actually brings people together in person, one of the last few things. Ravel switches hands and scores. Paul Rable. What makes sports really exciting right now is that it is more defensible to AI than any other industry. So many people are talking about the Premier Lacrosse League. Every brand is trying to elicit a feeling.

Starting point is 00:00:30 from a consumer. And sports is one of the few things that can like, with surety do it. That's why it's such a great advertising business. Welcome to the professional lacrosse Hall of Fame. It's clear to me, strength, speed, and endurance. You guys are at the top of your game. I want to flip that on its head. I've actually, Paul heard you talk about in an interview that when you walk into a room of business people, do people think of you as a dumb jock? Why a lot of family members don't go into business together. It's psychological warfare. That's been a family therapy.

Starting point is 00:01:00 The Tiger Sisters. Who can do more push-ups, prove it. What's your squad? 105. That's pretty good. My PR last week. That's pretty good. I've been working up to it, okay?

Starting point is 00:01:13 Hell yeah. I like that. All right. So today, we have two forces of nature in the room, Mike and Paul Rabel. They are brothers, business partners, and the powerhouse behind the premier lacrosse league, where Paul serves as the president and Mike as the same. CEO. PLL is actually, you know, I'm just going to go off-strip. So like PLL is actually so revolutionary because it's the first of its kind. It's kind of this combination of like what

Starting point is 00:01:47 you guys built. It's like the best of tech startups meets the best of like content creation in the media and media world and then also the best of elite sports. So we are so thrilled to have you guys here. So Paul is the greatest lacrosse player of all time in history. Of all time. And when I told my lacrosse bro friends that I was interviewing you. They said that you were the Tom Brady or A Rod of lacrosse. Oh, that's nice. That's a good one. Yeah. And Mike is a former Dartmouth football player and a serial entrepreneur. He brings the business vision and the operational backbone to the PLL. And together, they're the ultimate duo. And Paul and Mike took a formerly niche sport and turned it into a global movement

Starting point is 00:02:28 that is now even in the upcoming 2028 Olympics for the very first time. Mike and Paul, welcome to the Tiger Sisters. Thank you for having us. Let's do it. Okay, so we've never actually had two guests on the podcast before, not to mention much less siblings. So this is a very special occasion for us. You know we're not a sports podcast,

Starting point is 00:02:51 and we have a pretty big international audience that might not know what lacrosse is. So, Paul, you've talked about how before, you know, lacrosse has been around played by Native Americans. It's been around since the 12th century. Can you just take a minute to tell us about tell our audience in our community what lacrosse is in one minute yeah well if you've seen lacrosse before it's probably less to do with us and it has to do with the game's been around

Starting point is 00:03:15 north america for thousands of years and it's been played in college since the 1800s it was once in the olympics in the early 1900s um you know we weren't building slam ball we weren't creating a game from scratch we came in and we're like this game is not servicing its stakeholders the players and the fans and the way that we believe it could, especially in this modern environment of tech and media. But underneath that is, what we often say, is we had to rebrand a sport and reintroduce professional lacrosse because it had existed.

Starting point is 00:03:49 Yeah. I mean, I think that all that's 100% true. I always say that I don't think we would be able to, I mean, take a step back. We are far from having made it whatsoever. So I'm surprised you guys even had us on our podcast. But, you know, we finished our seventh season with the PLL. We were launching next year officially the Women's League, the WLL,

Starting point is 00:04:14 with four inaugural teams. And it's a huge fucking lift. And I would not be able to do it if I didn't have Paul. Just he is just a beast. And, you know, it's the work that's required for not only a startup, but a sports league and in the competitive environment where there is more capital come into. There's always other emerging sports leagues that are,

Starting point is 00:04:34 sucking up attention and we also compete with the entire attention economy for watch time. So you need especially early days more output more like strategic thought a thought partner who's a different brain. We have very different brains which is why we butt heads but also good for the business. If I didn't if he wasn't my brother, this thing would have already been done already probably because I would have I would have quit because I would have gone into way too many clashes with my co-founder. And so end of the day, and we have a lot of clashes, but end of the day, like, a lot of the pain is like, we're just not giving up on each other. Yeah. So you grew up together and now you work together, kind of a similar story as us.

Starting point is 00:05:17 What was your dynamic like as brothers growing up? Were you allies? Were you rivals? You're pretty close in age. Something kind of in between. Yeah, I mean, I think our relationship has been pretty consistent. We're allies and we have been competitors we had a rule that we set when we were teenagers that we had to play on the same team when we were playing pickup football or basketball or street hockey because on opposite teams we wouldn't finish the game without going to blows I think mom set that for us us yeah in video games we couldn't be on the same teams yeah yeah we needed that we would go to basically if we played against each other we start getting a fist fight yeah

Starting point is 00:05:58 so we had to be in the same team but the ally ship's always been strong we're 22 months apart. And I don't think we never had a grand plan to partner, certainly to this extent, together. We had always stayed close after both of us graduated, him from Dartmouth, me from Hopkins, for various reasons, this opportunity presented itself. And I want to say we rushed into it

Starting point is 00:06:21 because it was one of those things of timing where there was an existing league and different than a technology startup, or another event business where if you don't have it just the way you want it, you can push the launch day back a little bit. And we couldn't do that when you're running a sports league because you're signing 200 players and you're selling tickets to fans and you're doing venue agreements and you have a network counting on you to deliver on June 1st.

Starting point is 00:06:51 So it's actually just a dramatic, you know, series of, you know, moments that we have to execute on from when we decided, okay this is a good idea to get into the start line. Well, I think this is like the perfect lead in to this question that we have, which is for both of you actually. And it's more about like, so you guys have set out to build basically the NFL or the F1 of lacrosse. And our question, because we're kind of trying to do the same thing with Tiger Sisters,

Starting point is 00:07:20 is what does it take to turn that vision into a reality? And how do you do it from building something from something really nascent to now you're at the point of scaling it? You're like building out whole new adjacent. You're about to launch the Women's League. So like how do you how do you tactically do that? We're super ambitious. But a whole wholly owned model.

Starting point is 00:07:38 So we own it all, a tour-based model. So you can get a lot of economies to scale your costs. So you get central locations. And ownership of all the IPs. So we're able to package and scheduling. So you're able to package deals with sponsors and your media rights partners really quickly. Right.

Starting point is 00:07:51 So it allows you to scale revenue, allows you to get really good distribution with your media rights partners. Now you take a step back. What does that done? build a really good national business, but sports are really communal and hyper local as well. And so now we need to get to a place where we bring on some owners. And it's not just us in our front office and our investors.

Starting point is 00:08:09 It's like, okay, let's find really great sports owners because there's just really great sports owners out there who want to invest in the team, who want to bring it to their community on a 365 basis, who want to build real estate around it, or have existing real estate where they can bring the teams into it. And so that's going to give us that local that we've been missing. And we've been building, but we just authentically need more of. And so that's like the next evolution. And coupled with the Olympics that you're saying,

Starting point is 00:08:34 I think we'll add a lot of sort of scale that we're looking for. And then, you know, look, the biggest thing that you need is you need duration. You need time because people are always like, when's it going to hit escape velocity? When's it going to hit escape velocity? Because they're always like measuring your tech. And we've raised some venture money. And so their LPs are like, you know, spend seven seasons.

Starting point is 00:08:54 What's up? And we're like, we're getting. there we're growing every single year but at the same time like it's never you can never predict like this like usually with tech companies like it's like it's going to work or not your product market fit or not hits escape velocity right for this it's like with tech it's either like this or it's like that right and so for us um durations really important we have some really good um long-term investors but you know if you look we were just talking about us in the car like the NBA in the 80s early 80s was tape delayed you know they were losing tons of

Starting point is 00:09:27 of money and then all of a sudden they got Michael Jordan Larry Bird Magic Johnson and went You know look at the WMBA Caitlin Clark and in All that she's done for them and it's just so you get a superstar and so We think we have some early superstars, but a lot of it is sort of just being in the game long enough and showing consistent growth and pounding the rock It's all of a sudden you turn around. You're like whoa. Okay, we're here now. So it's a little bit more context I love that you guys are so complimentary. I see how it works now. Yeah, because you guys were kind of referencing it before you're like we have different skill sets. We have different kind of approaches to things. Now I'm like getting it. The picture is coming together. Similar to you guys or different? We're, I think on the surface, we're pretty

Starting point is 00:10:07 similar in training because I basically copied Gene's entire career. She's been my role model and she's seven years older. Right. So like she went to world class business school, both worked in tech. Both work in tech. But I like made her like the better version of me. Because like I, I, when I went to work in tech, I didn't have a engineering background. And that was really hard for me to get a product management job. So she was starting college at the time. So I was like, you have to get a computer science degree. And I kind of like forced her into it. And that's what, you know, so she stepped into a tech role right away. She didn't have to go, like first I had to go through finance, which was like a total grind. So she went straight into a PM role right out of undergrad,

Starting point is 00:10:44 which is like kind of unheard of. Like literally she was one of four LinkedIn interns her year. Yeah. Product management's hard because it's not, it's like a leadership role right away. Because you're like intermediating between the business and the tech team. and making decisions. Usually they want to see a couple years of that type of management training before you can jump in. Right. And like the engineers, they would question me sometimes. They'd be like, well, you don't have an engineering degree.

Starting point is 00:11:07 Why are you giving me feedback on that? So I was like, I'm going to make you bulletproof. Like no engineer is ever going to be able to question you because you are also going to have a CS degree. Now you can just be like, just use Claude and cut. And how do you feel when she says that she helped you become a better version of her? It's true. I think it's true. Because we have such a big age gap, I think it's something we're kind of like in like reckoning with now because like I've always looked up to Jean as my role model. She's my older sister. We have seven years. She's been like kind of my second parent in that way. She used to babysit me and all that stuff. So now we're like peers working together as, you know, co-founders, co-hosts and so much more than that. So there's a little bit of like fine tuning that needs to happen right now where like you have to respect me and my opinions. And I'm. I do.

Starting point is 00:11:55 though. Yeah, but I think it took us like a little bit to get there because I think in some ways you see me as the younger child. I mean, I am, but I'll always be the younger child, but there's that. I mean, one thing that everyone talks about is how sports is like kind of the last great unifier, right? Like sports is the thing that actually brings people together in person, one of the last few things. So there's that. That's like, I think we can all agree on that. And then I think the other thing to take it a little bit more, like, like, you know, economic, kind of political. One thing I think is that sports is like the last great export of the United States. And I'm not the only person to say that. That's been, I think Joe Sy says that in one of your investors, right? Like, that's like our last great chance for global hegemony for the United States. So it's like, I don't know. What do you guys think about that?

Starting point is 00:12:49 Are you blowing Mike's mind right now? The latter of them say that, but it makes sense. Yeah. sharp yeah I would also add what makes sports really exciting right now is that it is more defensible to AI than any other industry yes because I cannot prompt a skill a physical skill I can't if I wanted to be a better lacrosse player I have to get out every day and practice for hours on end against the wall find teammates to dodge shoot on net it's the only way you're gonna improve I heard Elon must say

Starting point is 00:13:24 yes, there will be a robot that, and probably already is, that you can bring out to the middle of the court in an arena that'll hit 100 threes in a row. And that'll go viral and then it won't. Because people actually watch sports either consciously or unconsciously embracing and accepting the failure. Like when Michael Jordan has his iconic dunks,

Starting point is 00:13:47 that's over another player. That player is feeling pain. Another fucking Michael Jordan highlight here. I get crossed over and dunked on, you know, and that, that has to live. And AI in other fields is perfecting human error. And you need human error in sport. So it survives AI, which is, I think, going to be a long-tail value problem. The agony and the ecstasy.

Starting point is 00:14:16 Yeah, exactly. Well, essentially what we're talking about is the feeling, right? It's like a fan, a consumer, whether they're watching or in real life, doesn't know the feeling they're going to have. So it's that anticipation before that you're like, I'm either going to be really happy or really upset. And nothing can disrupt that. That's ultimately human beings are driven off feelings. And sports is one of the last things like you're saying that can really elicit that feeling, that in-state that you're not sure you're going to have before it. So there's this big anticipation and then like a payoff or a letdown.

Starting point is 00:14:48 And there's like value in that. Everyone, every brand's trying to elicit a feeling from a consumer. And sports is one of the few things that can like, with sure, do it. That's why it's such a great advertising business. Right? Because brands like, okay, people are going to watch it to get that feeling. So let's put our brands there. So they're going to be assigned to that experience.

Starting point is 00:15:12 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was really good. I would say, you know, strength, speed and endurance. is what Mike's talking about. And then I noticed you have Rick Rubin's book, Creative Act Back sitting behind you.

Starting point is 00:15:23 Yeah. And the relationship that perhaps our league, our business can have with your business is we're all competing for attention. And the worst thing we can do is try to service what we think our fans want. Both of us. So what I believe the benefit is of being obsessed with lacrosse and loving our product as much as we do. Everyone at the company is that way. And we eat, sleep, drink, breathe this business is that we have to create the content and the distribution, the production, the rules of the game, the way that we feature our players such that it entertains us.

Starting point is 00:16:13 like this is what we love about this player and about this team and the bet that you make is that if you do that authentically and regularly and obsessively that other lacrosse fans out there they see that and they want that as well and so for your guys podcast you know you you have a unique point of view and you're consistent and really all that matters is that you enjoy the show that you're putting together and and then i believe like the union universe has a plan. You know, and, like,

Starting point is 00:16:46 we want to be a top five team sports league and we're going to do everything we can mathematically, energetically, financially to get there. But in our lifetime, we might not, but that won't be because of us. Just for the same reason,

Starting point is 00:17:02 I think about like, preach. Yeah. I love this. I think about, I even think about movie stars. You can't force people, you can't force people to watch lacrosse.

Starting point is 00:17:10 Like, we just, like, can't force it. So we're doing everything we can. to hopefully get more fans to watch it every single year, year, year. But you can't, like, one way I've heard you put it before, Paul, is that you say you're conditioning your fans. Like you can't force them, but you can do everything else to make it the right conditions for that.

Starting point is 00:17:26 Yeah, and that note is about how, I mentioned quickly the history of lacrosse, but there are lacrosse fans, a lot of them out there that have grown up watching the college game on TV. And they had never watched the pro game. And they certainly have never gone to a pro game and, paid a ticket price sat in the stands on a Saturday afternoon in the summer and ordered concessions. So conditioning them to watch pro lacrosse, look forward to it, attend the games. That's what Mike had mentioned in the NBA. That's what David Stern and now Adam Silver, where Adam served as deputy commissioner at the time, did in the 80s and 90s.

Starting point is 00:18:04 And that's a different strategy, right? Because that's like looking at your fan and telling them how to, you know, show up to an NFL tailgate four hours before kickoff. Like that was conditioned and created and became a part of the tribe of being an NFL fan. And that's a challenge. Yeah. And it's like you're doing that at the same time that you're building the infrastructure for the PLL. You're doing both at the same time.

Starting point is 00:18:31 Yeah. Which is what's wild. Yeah. Yeah. And so you said strength, speed and endurance. I love that. I like, I like, we're like, we're like, we're like, wait, that's so good. She was like, I'm going to make a carousel of that.

Starting point is 00:18:42 I mean, I'm going to make an Instagram. I think about it. Even in the podcast game and the creator game, strength and speed is most commonly observed. And as people getting out of the gates, but it's about your ability to endure over time. And that, to me, stems from your authentic passion and your care for whatever it is you're putting all your might into it. Yeah. I think it's very, it's clear to me, strength, speed, and endurance. And also, Mike, hearing you talk about taking, you know, the best of the, the tech world, the best of the media world and the best of like the traditional sports world and bringing that all together for the PLL. And it's clear to me that you guys are at the top of your game energetically, financially. I want to flip that on its head because I've actually Paul heard you talk about in an interview that you have imposter syndrome sometimes. Like maybe when you walk into a room of business people, do people think of you as a dumb jock.

Starting point is 00:19:38 So it's interesting hearing you say that when like from the outside, I'm like, oh my God, you guys are both so incredible. So when you're literally the goat. Like it's the greatest of all time for lacrosse. So like how do you overcome that imposter syndrome and like what do you, what do you do to do that? I think, yeah, it's a good question. So I think some of it is good and healthy to have imposter syndrome.

Starting point is 00:19:59 Imposter syndrome ironically is what most top athletes, entertainers have. Because, and I say ironically, it's because that's what drives you. Like the, when you're, you know, practicing on your own because you're worried about some imaginary figure in West Texas who is working harder than you that gives you your energy to do the last rep or another rep after that that you know father time is creeping that if you turn your ankle that you're never going to be fast again and and that was that was woven into the culture of sports via coaching for generations and they're better than us this is a trap game if we don't show up here we're going to lose and we're not going to accomplish our goal.

Starting point is 00:20:45 And so that you have to sort of like embrace part of it isn't your fault. And then you also have to realize that that imposter syndrome is what gives you your edge. And then once you're through that, you should have checkdowns. And some of that is like, you know, is this coming from a place of not being enough? Is this coming from a place of just, you know, insatiable desire? Both are sort of vices. And that's when you can go investigate your upbringing and certain pieces of even your adult life that led to that.

Starting point is 00:21:23 And I think one of the interviews you might be referencing is, you know, it's hard for me as a professional lacrosse player at the top of my game being paid $15,000 and looking across the aisle at an NBA or NFL or Major League Baseball player at the top of their game and seeing all of the reward they were getting.

Starting point is 00:21:42 And then on top of it, you know, most people not even recognizing that there was professional lacrosse or thinking that was the sport that the guys who got cut from the other leagues were doing. So I think that was like

Starting point is 00:21:58 always a heavy piece and that's made its way into probably the business world when I walked into rooms as I carried that judgment with me. Mm-hmm. Um, so anyway. And in terms of expanding people's interest in the sport, you guys mentioned that you

Starting point is 00:22:17 guys are introducing like women's lacrosse. Can you talk a little bit more about that decision? Because I think right now we're kind of at an amazing inflection point for women's sports. Yeah. And that's credit to the WMBA. It's been around for 30 years. The NWSL that's in its now, it's third iteration of professional women's soccer. Um, and a lot of the investment that has happened by,

Starting point is 00:22:38 our predecessors into women's sports, much like an investment societally since really the 50s and 60s into women in the workplace. I also personally believe that women have a faster track record and a better track record and a faster path to becoming superstars. I think that women going back to the advertising industrial complex have always been featured more than men and they are more empathetic often. They have more hobbies and interests that help them become, I think, probably more diverse to different potential audiences. And so I went on a little bit of a sidetrack because investing in the women's game not only made sense for us from a participation in a fandom standpoint, but when we also look at the women's stars of today, I believe they're

Starting point is 00:23:34 superstars in the making. It's it's about time that someone built a platform around them. So we're excited to do that. I'm really excited. I'm so I'm pumped for it. Awesome. Yeah. We'll host you guys. Yeah. That'll be great. Should we do the bowl? Let's just do the bowl. Okay. Okay. So we have one last segment here where we put in some questions in this beautiful matchable and watchable. And you guys get to pick out one question and answer it. It's kind of just like a fun little, fun little break. Okay, great. Let's do this.

Starting point is 00:24:07 I got two. My bad. You can read both of that? Oh, yeah, you can read both. One in shoes? Oh, man. Okay. We actually don't know what,

Starting point is 00:24:16 we don't know which one you got. Who can do more push-ups, prove it. Whoa. I like that. Who can do more push-ups? You can do push-ups right now. I haven't done chess in a couple days, so I might be, I might be out in a good spot.

Starting point is 00:24:29 What do you think? You think you can do more? I mean, I think you're lighter, so you'll probably beat me, but my chest is pretty strong right now. What was the last time you am wrapped push-ups and what did you get? Dude, my push-ups are, I mean, I don't know. I bench is pretty strong right now. What is it?

Starting point is 00:24:42 But I'm also heavy. So. Sheree bench presses. You do? No. I haven't done a max, but I can throw, what's your squat? 105. That's pretty good.

Starting point is 00:24:53 My PR last week. That's pretty good. I've been working up to it. okay. Hell yeah. I like that. I could probably get to 50. 50? No break. No break. Dude, dude, that's a lot. Yeah? Yeah. Wait, prove it. I mean, I can, like, I really push myself. I could probably get to 35. Yeah, I guess you could beat me then, I guess, because you're light, but 50's huge, dude. 50's a big number, yeah, but I, no breaks. No breaks. No breaks. Well, my lifts were good until we had a baby. and then I stopped lifting

Starting point is 00:25:30 but I 50 pre-baby really They have gems in London Yeah Okay Yeah Go to the Soho house

Starting point is 00:25:38 Yeah But then I transitioned Because they didn't work out For like 12 weeks or so And my buddy Kyle Harrison Was like You know you're not going to find

Starting point is 00:25:50 An hour and a half For a workout So just do 10 minutes of push-ups So I do know that I've Been able to rip 25 pretty easily a lot of push that. Yeah, he's trained.

Starting point is 00:25:59 He's been training for this action. Okay, you've actually been training. So this question feels similar to what we've already discussed, which is, what is your brother's greatest weakness and strength? You can pick another one. I could hit that. Let's go freshy. Freshie.

Starting point is 00:26:15 Freshie. Who's more likely to bend the rules to win? Oh, wait, that's a good one. Probably me. I would say, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think. I don't, yeah,

Starting point is 00:26:30 bends the right way to frame it. Yeah. Because you're not breaking. Creative. You're just bending. You're the creative brother. Yeah. And he's,

Starting point is 00:26:38 you know, he's competitive. Psychically competitive. And like that's why we would usually fight. It's like, I'm competitive, but Paul is just relentless. It's just,

Starting point is 00:26:47 it's, we get to a place, which is, which might be a stem of a lot of our disagreements, where both of us have to decipher the source of the, of the disagreement. Sometimes in his head, it's like you're just trying to win.

Starting point is 00:27:02 Yeah. And in my experience, it's like, no, I'm trying to like meet him where he often wants me to pool, which is like use data. And I think what we both agree to is like, we come into a disagreement with a strong point of view. And that's backed by a lot of care and research. So naturally, we wouldn't be in this disagreement if we didn't feel really strongly about this position. So if you have an impasse, then it's sort of like, all right, well, who's going to make the concession? Yeah. And I find a lot of disagreements sort of like impossible to solve through logically, so you have to revert back to sort of empathetic perspective.

Starting point is 00:27:44 Hmm. And then there's a little bit just lives in romance, too. There's a little bit of like, you take this one and I'll take the next one sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. How do you guys handle it? I think we should disagree more. Honestly.

Starting point is 00:27:59 Like we don't... Is it a lot? No, we don't disagree on enough. Oh, wow. Like, I want more fights. I want more conflict. Because we, since we do have a similar training and in talking about like strategy and where we think things are going, it's been pretty aligned, which is nice.

Starting point is 00:28:12 But I think in disagreement, we could have maybe like 10x crazier ideas and bring them to the table. I think more creative stuff would come out of that. I think as long as you respect your strengths in areas of ownership. I see a lot of co-founder blow up, especially in tech, when there's like overlay over the same shit all the time. They're both engineers or they're both business people and they don't. And it's like, no, this is your area, is my area.

Starting point is 00:28:38 Of course, big decisions we have to make together. But like you have to have mutual respect for the lanes that you cover and for, you know, your general just horsepower and effectiveness and throughput, right? So as long as that's there, you can solve a lot of the issues, right? Because so many people just jump in the business and they're like, oh, wait, we're doing the same shit. And that's what we argue about. And this whole other area of the room hasn't been cleaned up yet. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:01 Yeah. Yeah. What's the same like the bad things or difficult things come in threes? I think conflict shouldn't be consistent. But it will exist. And it's like friction. You need friction to run fast. You need your foot to hit the ground, create friction and force so you can push forward.

Starting point is 00:29:17 I mean, I think I'm working on, I'm naturally very non-confrontational. And I think there's also like the protective element that you had said about Mike like I think maybe Sherey doesn't realize this we actually just talked about this yesterday our fight yeah we had a fight we had a fight yesterday um I think I was being insensitive um well actually yeah I don't basically well okay so an an email came in for uh on Saturday for like the biggest deal we've ever endorsed brand deal brand deal we've ever like been considering actually I think I told you about it maybe or and um It would be like 10x the size of any other deal we've ever done.

Starting point is 00:29:59 I've been working on it for months because I sort of like lead the beaty stuff. And an email came in on Saturday, which was they actually sent back the red lines. Like it was ready to go. And then the person sent a double email. So I missed the email with the red lines. But we also, we worked on Saturday. We did like a photo shoot and went to like a Hall of Fame induction event thing. We worked on Sunday where we recorded a podcast.

Starting point is 00:30:20 And then I didn't see it on Monday. And I emailed the person on Tuesday. I was like, hey, are those red lines ready? They're like, oh, we sent to you on Saturday. So I felt so bad. I was like mentally beating myself up that I had missed the email on Saturday. Because like I've been wanting to close this deal for like a month now. Right.

Starting point is 00:30:37 We've been so close. So like I was just like already internally feeling so shitty about myself that I missed this email. And I was like about to like burst into tears even just like myself. And like mentioned it to Sheree. And like her response was not very empathetic. Well my well. Actually, it wasn't that it wasn't empathetic. I've also been wondering, I'm not on any of the emails for this deal, but I think about it daily.

Starting point is 00:31:03 But I don't ask her daily, like, how's it going? How's it going? Because I don't want to breathe down her neck. But, like, I think about it all the time because it's such a big, massive deal to close. And so my, when she told me that she missed the email, I was just like, oh, like, since this is such a big deal, I'm not on any of our, like, partnerships emails. And I don't think I should be on them because it's not my lane. But for this one, that's so big, if I were on the email, I could have seen it over the

Starting point is 00:31:25 weekend and possibly been like reminded her or you know like said something on monday or tuesday if i had seen it i don't think i should be on any of the other emails this one i think i should have been on and i was like oh maybe you can put me on that email i said it like that it wasn't like you suck how could you miss this it was like could you put me on the email like i think i should be on it and for our content we have for all of our podcast episodes the both of us to review them because i mess up i mess up sometimes when i'm editing things don't look good there's a black mark you need to both sets of eyes because the content is our core product. I need you to look at what I mess up and I admit that. So I think for this big partnerships deal, I think I should have the same eyes,

Starting point is 00:32:05 two pairs of eyes on it as well. Which I don't disagree with, but in the moment, like I needed, like, if she had said that to me, like I immediately would have been like, oh my God, don't even worry about it. We literally were working on Saturday. We were working on Sunday. You missed it for one day. Like it's it's Tuesday morning like the deal is it's going through right like don't worry about it all like we'll be good but like she didn't respond with that. Well the interesting thing about well it's just it's the heat in the moment right? I should have been on the email then maybe you wouldn't have missed it. Well this is so this is a thing there's two things that come to me for this one is that working with a sister or in our case a brother is more likely to induce in these moments our parents

Starting point is 00:32:49 So when I hear that, it makes, it probably made you feel like you were being parented. The irony is that situation I often feel is like you were coming in as if you're the older sister. There's just status in sibling dynamics. And like the eldest is meant to be the all-knower and support and fix. And I'll take over from here. So there was probably a sense of like, well, shit, this is, you know, my stuff, you're the younger sister. You know, my job is actually due to you. And so I could see how that probably spun up.

Starting point is 00:33:33 And the reality is like, you know, codependence is like you're actually all trying to come from the same space, but you're overstepping. You're coming from a place of care. Yeah. But you're overstepping unknowingly. And it leads to like a blowout. Like, what the fuck? I just care about the same. thing that you do well if what I was going back to the beginning I think all that's

Starting point is 00:33:51 right I think the issue is is you shortcut the professionalism when you're when your siblings so in a normal world if you guys were just partners you would have been like man we were working really hard this all weekend and that sucks you missed it I would like to be on this email moving forward but like when you're just you probably would have been cool with that oh she knows where I'm at she meeting you on that yeah instead like you skip through all that you know all that because she's your sister right that happens with us all time I'll just be like, dude, why are you saying like that?

Starting point is 00:34:19 Like, I'm in this too, right? Or whatever it is. And he'll do the same thing. Like, what's the update? I'm like, why are you pressing me? I'm on it, right? And the reality is, like, you're all over it. You missed an email.

Starting point is 00:34:27 People miss emails and you email them again on Monday. And like, that's not going to kill the deal. It's actually all good. Yeah. Like, if anything, that means that they know that you're like on it and you care. Yeah. You're going to get it done. And so sometimes you're just like in those moments where sometimes what I've been trying to do is like,

Starting point is 00:34:41 I feel myself getting hot. I'll like try to pull out from it. Like, I'm hot. take a second breathe calm down and then i'll try to adjust yeah um and then i'll try to react after i pull myself out of it so i just started to let my body tell me if i'm getting hot um and then if i just get hot and react and i'll try to apologize real fast afterwards well i did apologize within five minutes and then it's pretty good five minutes within five minutes because we had a meeting right after and i had to apologize before that but she said i hope like it was five minutes

Starting point is 00:35:10 it was five minutes it was literally five minutes boys and and she's just like well if you had said that in the beginning, I wouldn't have reacted like this. So I guess my learning is that apologies are, don't cost anything and they mean a lot. Totally. But also, I will say the feedback I gave, probably timing was wrong because she already felt really bad and I didn't realize how bad she felt. But like the feedback I gave felt kind of very professional to me and like, oh, you just put me on the email and like then we'll both be on it. But I think because she was in the heat of the moment, it felt very unprofessional. And then it felt like more. an attack then like I was like I feel like I should be able to tell you these things but generally

Starting point is 00:35:50 even if even if you weren't partners and if it was you know sales associate that that feedback of saying put me on the email implies that you wouldn't have missed it knowing that she missed it so it's all no matter who who you are it's just it's a hot it's a hot yeah and i've been there and mike's Mike's actually been there more with me because I'll make more mistakes. And he'll say, I got it. You know, I'll have to jump in. And I was mentioning the sibling revelry stuff because, you know, when I hear stuff from Mike or if he hears stuff from me, it lands different because we're brothers.

Starting point is 00:36:29 We have so much history. You know, we have 40 years of history like hovering over each other. Yeah. And competing against each other. Yeah. And so it's psychological warfare at times. to just, and we don't even know because it's in our system, it's in our fiber. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:46 So you're working out like 40 years of just ingrained rivalry. Yeah. It's just, you know, it's no one's fault. It's why a lot of family members don't go into business together. But the ones who do make it big. We used to always say like you get this undying loyalty. Yeah. And commitment and respect and pace and strength and endurance.

Starting point is 00:37:07 Yeah. I mean, you'll never have someone as commitment. as your sibling. Right. Yeah. Cool. All right. And that's been a family therapy with the Tiger Sisters, business therapy with the Tiger

Starting point is 00:37:20 Sisters. Thank you for joining. And I guess to wrap this up for people watching this, like where can they find more on your socials, on the PLL? How should they follow you? I would follow the PLL. We're at PLL across most accounts at Premier lacrosse on X. and our games are on ESPN and ABC every summer

Starting point is 00:37:41 and the WOL is at WLO across all accounts and you can visit our website is premier lacrosseleague.com and we look forward to entertaining you. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. We'll be back in February.

Starting point is 00:37:58 Games start back up in February. We'll be around the corner. Ready. There you go. Yay. Thanks guys. Yay. Thanks for having us.

Starting point is 00:38:06 Yeah.

Tiger Sisters - The Secret Power of Siblings ft. Mike & Paul Rabil, Founders of the Premier Lacrosse League

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