Tiger Sisters - The Secret to Power & Influence I Learned at Stanford's Business School

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

After spending $250,000 on a Stanford MBA, I realized the most valuable lessons were the invisible soft skills — the mental operating systems that help you build trust, influence, and actually lead everyone around you.In this episode of Tiger Sisters, we share the 3 most powerful frameworks from Stanford GSB that transformed how we show up as leaders — and how you can apply them immediately.We share:✅ The SBI feedback model from “Touchy Feely” — used by Netflix, Microsoft, Adobe✅ Power mapping from Jeffrey Pfeffer’s Paths to Power — why influence beats titles✅ Executive communication with the SCQA framework — clarity is stronger than being “smart”✅ Real company case studies (Sheryl Sandberg at Google/Facebook, Amazon product launches)✅ Mini exercises to practice each framework today🐯👯‍♀️ We’re the Tiger Sisters — Your Wall Street & Silicon Valley big sistersDecoding Money • Power • Love✨ New episodes every Monday | Shorts all week ✨🎯 Sponsored by mbaMission, the #1 MBA admissions consulting firm (Poets&Quants). Their expert team has helped 15,000+ applicants get into top schools. Start with a free 30-minute consultation at www.mbamission.com/consult and select “Tiger Sisters.” Use code “TIGERSISTERS30” for 30% off onTrack, their guided MBA application platform.💌 Want to partner with us? Sponsorships: [e-mail]⏰ Timestamps00:00 Doing everything “right” but not seen as a leader00:08 $250,000 Stanford MBA & invisible soft skills00:23 The mental operating systems behind leadership00:33 Today’s 3 frameworks from Stanford00:41 Meet the Tiger Sisters — Top 10 Business Podcast01:08 This is Part 3 of our Stanford GSB series01:32 What to expect: case studies + mini exercises01:44 Sponsor: mbaMission03:02 Framework 1: Giving feedback the right way (SBI model)06:11 Why specificity matters — workplace & personal examples11:08 Mini exercise: practice situation → behavior → impact13:22 Framework 2: Power Mapping (Paths to Power)18:19 Case study: Sheryl Sandberg’s power map20:37 Case study: Carol Bartz at Yahoo22:05 Mini exercise: map your own power web23:21 Framework 3: Executive Communication (SCQA model)25:10 Example: marketing spend pitch & SCQA breakdown27:00 Case study: Amazon press releases & clarity28:12 Mini exercise: write & test your SCQA pitch28:41 How these frameworks changed our careers29:03 Wrap-up, reviews, newsletter, and next episode👀 Newsletter: https://cherieluo.substack.com/🎁 Survey: https://forms.gle/rXpQtbpwU3qShHW26Why trust us?▫️ Cherie Brooke Luo – 100M+ views demystifying big tech, finance & MBAs▫️ Jean Luo – ex-Goldman, ex-Snapchat exec, 50+ AI patents, startup investor▫️ Together: 4 Ivy degrees • built billion-dollar products • two startups — decoded for youWhat you’ll get (and keep):▫️ 🚀 Ivy League cheat sheets – no $250K tuition required▫️ Personal finance playbooks – salary jumps, investing, money psychology▫️ Networking scripts – behind $100M+ deals, job offers & VC intros▫️ Real talk with unicorn founders, VCs, and billionaires▫️ Mindset resets – clarity minus the pricey life coach▫️ Fashion, wellness, and productivity hacks that actually work💛 LET'S CONNECT:~ CHERIE ~🤳🏻 Instagram – / cherie.brooke📱 TikTok – / cherie.brooke✍🏻 Substack – cherieluo.substack.com👩🏻‍💻 LinkedIn – / cherie-luo~ JEAN ~🤳🏻 Instagram – / jeanluo_👩🏻‍💻 LinkedIn – / jeanluo👉 Hit Subscribe & tap the 🔔, then WRITE A REVIEW and rate us ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ on Spotify & Apple Podcasts!Share this with someone who deserves to be seen as a leader.🎵 Music: Sammy Signal – https://open.spotify.com/artist/2HsyknHuxhT8RoZfn5rqMS🛍️ Items: 🍵 Sisters Matcha – www.sistersmatcha.com | 🌀 Everything else – https://amzn.to/3z0dx5b

You're doing everything right at work. You're hitting deadlines, being a team player, over delivering, but somehow they still don't see you as a leader. I spent over $250,000 on my Stanford MBA, and yes, I learned the hard skills, the frameworks, the case studies, the mental models, but honestly, the most important things were the soft skills that are kind of invisible. And these are the mental operating systems

that help you build trust, influence, and to actually lead your team, your management, your clients, your investors, pretty much everyone around you. And so today we're going over the three most powerful frameworks I learned at Stanford's business school and how we apply them to our everyday lives. I'm Sherey. I'm Gene. And we're the Tiger Sisters.

We are the internet's Wall Street and Silicon Valley Big Sisters. And we're a top 10 business podcast on Spotify where we talk about money, power, and love. And this is part three of what I learned at Stanford. GSP. So if you haven't seen part one or part two, go back after this episode and binge those. And just like we did for our everything I learned at Harvard Business School series, we are actually going to go through case studies of different companies, just like we do for business school. And we're also going to do a mini exercise for each of the framework so you can practice it as we go along in the episode.

All right, let's get into it. So first up, nobody teaches women at work how to be powerful and direct without being called also intimidating or bitchy. But Stanford did. That's up right after this. Applying to business schools, it's a lot. We know. Every decision feels high stakes. Where to apply, when to apply, how do you stand out?

You're Googling everything alone, hoping you're not making a huge mistake. Those months applying to business school, they were some of the most stressful of my life. Having an expert to guide you through the complicated application process, that's a game changer. And that's why we've partnered with MBA mission. They're offering Tiger Sisters listeners free, personalized one-on-one MBA consultations. You can ask their experts anything and get advice you can use right away. The essays, the interviews, sharpening your own personal narrative, think of them as your own personal counselors to help you with the entire process.

They are the leaders in MBA admissions consulting and I wish I knew about them when I was applying. So go to MBAMission.com slash consult and pick Tiger. Sisters in the drop-down menu to claim your free consultation today. Book now before the calendar fills up. Check out the episode description. We have a special discount for Tiger Sisters listeners for MBA missions special on-demand platform. They have over 25 hours of videos that take you step by step in the application process. All right. Now back to our show. Okay, let's do the first framework, which is giving feedback the right way. So this is rooted in Stanford's infamous course, which is called touchy-feely, and it's officially called interpersonal dynamics. And it's all about how to

give feedback the right way. And it's not just used in Stanford. It's also a really big part of now Netflix's culture deck. Yeah, this class is extremely competitive to get into. You have to rank it very high. I feel lucky because I ranked it and I was able to get into it. And I took this class last winter. Yeah. Actually, side note, my ex, like 15 years ago went to Stanford GSP and we like broke up, but then he broke no contact to tell me that taking this class changed his life. And he sent me all these notes from it, which I don't think I ever read at the time. But he was like, this class is amazing. It changed my life. Everybody cries. Yeah. It's kind of a rite of passage for people to cry in the class. Not that like the facilitators are doing it on purpose or anything.

But like so much of self-discovery comes out in this class that it just happens naturally. Okay. Well, so you guys are going to get the learnings without even having to cry. Maybe they'll probably while watching this. I don't know. Or receive notes from your ex-boyfriend. Your ex-boyfriend. Breaking no contact. One of the biggest parts of this class is a training session that you do with a group.

And basically you sit in a circle with 12 other of your classmates. And for like three hours, there's no curriculum. You just sit in the circle and people will start to say something. You're like, wait for someone to say something. And then conflict will kind of automatically around. and then you have to say like when you said this, I felt this. And we learned the SBI framework, which is really important to giving feedback. Wait, so you just like sit in a circle for three hours and you have to like kind of like dis each other? You don't dis each other, but it naturally

comes up. You just imagine sitting for three hours in a circle. You're just waiting for someone to say something. Okay. And so you have to start with kind of a complaint or a lament or something or giving feedback. Kind of. Or like you kind of. Or like you kind of. You kind of. You kind of. You kind of. You kind of. comment on what is going on in the dynamic. Like someone will be like going like this or something. And then a classmate will be like, Frederick, can you stop doing that? It's like really annoying me. But Frederick's like, I have like a tick and I have to do it.

What? This is wild. Frederick's like I have a tick and I, this is like makes me feel really comfortable. And by you saying that like you want me to stop like that's kind of crossing my boundaries. And everyone's just like, what is going on? And then Frederick and this other person. will kind of go back and forth. And then another person will jump in and be like, when you gave feedback to Frederick, I thought it was really, really callous. You didn't consider. Like, that's like

the curriculum for this class for three hours. And okay. Yeah, it's pretty intense. And as you can see, it can kind of escalate. Yeah. But the point of that is that so that you can actually learn and then practice the framework. Exactly. You can learn how to give feedback and also receive feedback in a way that makes you more empathic and you understand and like how the other person is feeling. So I'd love for you to share a little bit more about the SBI framework that we learned. Yeah. Okay. So the SBI model, S stands for situation. B stands for behavior and then I stands for impact. So basically what you're supposed to do is use each of these three to give your feedback. So situation, when and where did this happen, your lament. B, behavior. Talk about what the person did objectively with no judgment. And

And then I, you talk about the impact of how it made you feel or what the effect of their behavior was. Yeah. And I think the most important thing here is that the feedback is very specific. It's not vague. And I think I'm also, I suffer from this as well. Like if you're giving feedback at work, you want it to be as specific as possible to the situation.

So that's how people kind of know and contextualize your feedback and have a way to improve. The most important thing is that the feedback is grounded in observation. It's very specific observation that no one can contest. It's like this is the observed behavior that we both saw. And it's how it made me feel. Yeah. And Stanford professors, they emphasize that a lot of times the reason why feedback fails is because most of the time

people jump straight to the impact, right? People say, well, you made me feel bad because XYZ, instead of actually doing the first two parts first situation and behavior. actually the most important thing that I took away from touchy-feely is not really the you made me feel bad. It was more the I felt bad when this happened, you know, because then when I say when, it's like the behavior and we can both agree that that happened. And a key distinguishing factor there is intent versus impact. And something that we learned is that you're never supposed to assume the intent of another person. You have no idea what's going on in their mind. We call that crossing the net. You'll

never cross into what is going on in someone else's head. So don't assume intent, but you can talk about impact and how someone's behavior impacted you. And so by using this framework, what you can actually do is you can diffuse the defensiveness that people usually typically have when you start, you know, when you go with them straight with the impact. And so this is a really good and like grounded framework for giving impact both in your personal and your professional lives. Giving feedback. Yeah, sorry, giving feedback. And actually, I have used it in giving feedback in my personal life.

And it worked. To whom? To like a guy I was dating. I gave him some feedback. You use the SBI? Yeah. Well, I used, I especially intentionally used the thing you just said, which is saying like, oh, like I felt X, Y, Z.

or like, oh, when you did this, when this happened and you did this or the situation occurred, I felt X, Y, Z. So that it was more about, like, me and not so much like you did this. Yes. So, and it worked, it worked well. Yeah. They were very receptive. Oh, that's great.

Yeah. And then they even said, like, thanks for telling me that. Oh. Yeah, like, I'm really glad we talked about that. That's a great response. Wow. Yeah. Results may vary.

I don't recommend trying this on your parents if they are immigrants, if they are immigrants, and you guys have not had this conversation before because results may vary. Or just no results may vary. Yeah, or yeah. We are not liable. And it's actually not just used at Stanford. It's actually a framework that's used in a lot of corporate settings. So at Microsoft, they train all of their new managers and S&S.

SBI because it's part of their performance review system. And also I know that at Adobe, they actually were using SBI to move away from their annual reviews. And apparently it increased employee satisfaction. And I feel like a real life example so that you guys can kind of see what this looks like in the workplace and in a personal life. So in the workplace, it might sound like this. In yesterday's client pitch, that's the situation, you interrupted me. You interrupted me. No, it didn't.

While I was presenting our strategy, that is the observed behavior that no one can contest for the most part. And it made me feel pretty undermined and less confident in front of the client. And that is the impact. And again, it's the it made me feel. It made me feel. Or I felt. Yes.

Right. Yes. Okay. Another example that is more personal that you can use with like a partner or a roommate or something is it would go something like this. When you left the dishes in the sink last night, situation, even though we agreed on cleanup behavior, I felt like my time and effort weren't being respected. Impact. You bitch. Yeah. So I think it sounds simplistic. So we would love for you

guys to practice this. We have a mini exercise for you. So maybe think of a moment where you felt really frustrated with something or with someone and just write it out, write out the situation, the observed behavior. and the impact how it affected you. And if you say it out loud, kind of in the way that Gene and I practiced, it feels, you can tell it feels less confrontational and more conversational. And it's actually like just reflecting on it. I think it's kind of amazing that just a small change in syntax, like it doesn't seem like it's such a big change to say like you made me feel versus I felt or like to,

to put stuff in this specific order when you're giving your your someone feedback but it really does make a difference yeah it's actually it's really cool yeah to it's a bit disarming yeah yeah it's like the power of language yeah sometimes i use it on you okay do you do you realize that um if not that's good that means it's woven in seamlessly you're you're you've had many many hours of practice. Yeah, I've had a lot of practice with this. And as Jean knows, I'm in my confrontational phase of my life. So that like if something, if something bothers me, I will share it, but not in a confrontational. Sorry, not in like a mean confrontational way. I just like don't bottle things in anymore. I'm more willing to express it. And honestly, using SBI.

And then one last, okay, one last extra level up. If you want, you can actually take SBI and use it the opposite way to actually ask for feedback. So for example, you can say, when I shared the product plan in the meeting, S situation, what stood out to you about how I presented it? B, behavior. And what was the impact on the team's decision making? I impact. And that's how you grow faster. Don't just wait for feedback. Design for it. Okay, so giving feedback actually gets you heard, but this next one is what keeps you remembered. It's the difference between being respected and then being promoted. So don't skip this next one. And we'll get to the next framework right after this break. Quick pause, Tiger fam. This is Sheree, and we just dropped a brand new listener survey.

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And we're back. Okay, so Framework 2 is actually called Power Mapping. And this is based on an infamous Stanford class called Pads to Power by Jeffrey Pfeffer. Yeah, I didn't actually take this class, but I have so many friends who did. It's one of those really famous classes that you need to prioritize in order to get in. But the biggest takeaway from this class is that success isn't always about merit. It's about understanding influence, visibility, and alliances. And if you don't understand power, you'll lose to people who do.

Sounds threatening. It is a threat. Right. And power is definitely not the same thing as title. So what Fephyr teaches in this class is that power is about who controls the resources, who's influencing decisions, and who's actually pulling the strings behind the scenes. This is something that really rings true for me. And it's something that I feel like I was subject to, I was a part of that I actually benefited from for the first half of my career, all without me actually noticing or like really knowing

what was going on. Yeah. And then I think this is not something that I actually realized until the last six years of my career and like maybe didn't even start to implement or like play a part in until the last three years. Yeah, because I think when you're early in your career, like a lot of things happened behind the scenes with the higher ups and the execs and your boss and your boss's boss that you're kind of not privy to. But as you get more senior, you're looped into those conversations and you kind of understand a little bit more about

how the sausage is made like in the political environment at work. So then you're like a part of it. Right. It actually becomes your job to influence these decisions and kind of, I guess, maneuver in a way to help your team and, like, progress your goal. I mean, it sounds kind of Machiavellian because it is. And it's not saying that this is like the only way to do things. That's like one of Jeffrey Pfeffer's, like starting overtures or something. Yeah. Premise. Yeah. Starting. Preface. Yeah. It's one of Jeffrey Pfeffers, like starting disclaimers with the. class is that he's saying what he believes to be true. It's not the only way to go about life or go about like work relationships or politics at work. There's other ways to do it. But you should

at least know that these are the power dynamics and power moves that some people abide by. And some people are, you know, moving the chess pieces around. So just like be aware that they exist. And this class is also guest lecture based. So Professor Feffer invites people into his class who have made those power moves and they share stories of where those power moves really worked out for them. This class sounds so good. I wish I could have taken it. Yeah, I didn't take it, but like I said, a lot of my friends did. And honestly, some of them gave very mixed reviews. Many people enjoyed the class because they're like, oh my God, I never even thought about that. That's so smart of how to like gain influence and power. And then other people came out of the class being like disgusted. They're like, I cannot believe people do this or think this way or treat other people. people that way in order to get ahead. But like I guess their eyes- Like pawns on a chessboard. Ponds on a chess board. It's very house of cards. And yeah, I think it's up to viewer discretion, right? On the chess board of your life, are you going to be the queen or are you going to be a pawn?

God die. Well, it's up to your discretion, right? You get to choose what is within your bounds of feeling comfortable to implement. Yeah. And also, Jeffrey Pfeffer wrote, Professor Fephy wrote a book about it too. Yes. So even if you can't take the class, if this is really interesting to you, as a follow-up, you should buy or borrow the book and we'll link to it in the notes for this. Actually, one of the reasons why I didn't take the class is because older students said you could just read the book and it's basically the class.

Mine is the guest lectures. Okay. Cool. Or other people say you could just watch Tiger Sisters this episode. Yes. I think a lot of people have said that as well. Or they will say that soon. They will say that.

Once you send them this video, they will say that. Okay, so I wanted to give you guys a case study, and I have a really interesting one here, which is actually contrasting two people, one who did power mapping seemingly all right and one who did it seemingly all wrong. So the one who did it right is Cheryl Sandberg. So she's pretty well known. And I think what a lot of people don't know is that she actually started her career, not in tech, but in government.

So she was the chief of staff at the U.S. Secretary. which is where she kind of first started at the U.S. Treasury, which is where she kind of first learned to understand where power sits behind the scenes. And she was basically learning influence. She was learning how decisions are made at a very high level. Then the next step that she did was she joined Google, but not in a technical role because she wasn't technical, but it was actually in a biz-ops role. And she reported directly into Eric Schmidt. And what was important was that in this role, she actually expanded her power map a lot because she was in such a cross-functional position and she became like the go-to cross-functional partner and she built out her sort of like

web of influence. And then finally she met Mark Zuckerberg at a Christmas party in 2007. She was so funny. I'm just imagining that Christmas party. 07. Zuck in a Christmas sweater. You were in like, I was in seventh grade. She was in seventh grade. She couldn't make it. I couldn't. My invite out law. in the mail. I needed parent permission to go to this field trip. But so by the time she actually met Mark Zuckerberg at this party, she had already built out what was her most valuable asset, which was her web of influence, like her web of all these different relationships that she had across Silicon Valley. So that's why he brought her on, not just for her like strategic mindset

and her like ability to be a really strong COO and partner to him, but for her power map. And it was power map, notably, that actually extended across multiple sectors. So not just tech, but also government. And so I think the main takeaway is that the way that Cheryl went about this was that she wasn't trying to accumulate titles throughout her career. She was trying to accumulate influence. And it was actually influence across all these different sectors, tech, public sector, and then eventually leadership in a company. And then just really quickly, what will contrast this with as the sort of downside case is Carol Bart's. who was this really well-known and respected CEO

who came in to be the CEO at Yahoo. And basically she was brought in to kind of turn the company around. But legend goes, what happened is that she focused all her energy into really just more the tactical aspects of the turnaround. And she never took the time to build out her power map within the company. So when she tried to do these pretty radical moves that, you know,

objectively would have been the right moves. she didn't have the allies within the company to support these moves. So eventually she was actually fired through a phone call. Legend has it. Was it a 30 second voicemail? A la Joe Jonas and Taylor Swift breakup. Something like that. This is probably the corporate version of that.

The corporate version of that. Damn. But yeah, so there you have it. Like the reason she lost out isn't because she wasn't capable. She was incredibly capable. That's why she was even put in the role in the first place. but it's because she didn't play this power game that Jeffrey Pfeffer talks about. And I think what Jeffrey Pfeffer always teaches at Stanford is that power isn't actually about being right at all.

Power is about having enough support and alliances to survive being right. I wish this mic was separated so I could drop it. Do you guys like that? Replay it. Just rewind 10 seconds. So our mini exercise for this section is for you to map out your own power web. choose five people who will influence your next opportunity, whether it's a raise or a role that you're trying to get or a deal you're trying to close. Are they advocates for you? Are they neutral?

Or are they unaware of the situation? Pick one of those people to then connect with this week. That is your homework. And we'd love to see some of your comments below, maybe not the person's name or anything, but kind of how you're thinking about it. And if you're doing these many exercises. Yeah, because I'll say you can't afford to ignore power dynamics even if you're brilliant, actually, especially if you're brilliant. Because being excellent without visibility is a silent career killer. Man, all these things are invisible and silent at the same time. That's actually why they're so dangerous because also people don't talk about them. Yeah, except for us.

Except for us. And also, I think they're invisible and silent because people don't realize that it's happening. Yeah, and the people that do realize that it's happening, like they're not going to tell you because they don't want to give away their edge. Yeah. Except for us. Except for us. We're different like that.

Tiger sisters. We're different like that. That's funny. And our last and final framework that we're going to talk through is executive communication. This framework is actually based on strategic comms, a class with Matt Abraham's. Shout out to Matt. I actually had the pleasure of working with him as a communications coach when I was doing my TED talk last year.

That's so cool. What a sentence. Yeah. What a sentence. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. She doesn't even need to show off. She just speaks the truth. Well, I always wanted to create a Instagram post after my TED talk and write the caption. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

But I forgot to do that and the time has passed. But you guys know that I had the intent. It's never too late. It's never too late. It's never too late. Fine. Maybe I'll do that today. That's so annoying of me.

But anyways. So Matt Abrams was the comms coach that I, one of the communications coaches that gave us feedback on our talks. And I'm, I'm excited to talk through some of his advice. And he talks about the SCQA method as created by Barbara Minto. And it's all about communication with clarity through this framework. Yeah. And I think we'll get into the actual framework. But I think the takeaway that we can start with is that your ideas are only as powerful.

as your ability to communicate them clearly and effectively. I used to think that being smart meant giving long, detailed explanations, but actually in the business world, if you can't get to your point in 30 seconds or less, people will tune you out. Right. So that's where the SCQA framework comes in. So S stands for situation.

C stands for complication. What's the challenge? Q stands for question. What are we solving? And then A is answer. What should we actually do? about it. So why don't you give us a practical example to start with? I really like this because the SCQA framework gives you a way to storytell so someone can clearly follow your train of thought.

And here's an example. Let's say you're pitching a shift in marketing spend at work. And instead of saying, we've been testing different channels and thinking maybe we should try, blah, blah, blah. You should say right now, KAC is rising faster than LTV. That's the situation. If we don't adjust, we'll overspend. That's the challenge or complication. And what's the solution? You're kind of asking them, prompting them, telling them that there will be a solution coming up.

You're giving them the answer. We shift 40% of our spend to UGC creators. So it's just a way to model out what you're thinking and someone can follow step by step and understand your communication much more clearly. Yeah, I like that. I think it's clean. It's confident. and you're speaking with the type of clarity that builds trust.

Because being clear is more powerful than being smart. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. Actually, sometimes being smart or, like, too smart can actually hold you back. Totally. Because you can't convey your ideas clearly. And then it's, that's why, I mean, I don't know if we should take it there. But that's why a lot of times Donald Trump's communication is so powerful

because he kind of like dumps everything down to the most simple word that you can use. So instead of being like, this is despicable, he'll just be like, this bad, this very bad. Instead of being like, this is a comprehensive bill that, you know, will uplift people around the world who'd be like, big, beautiful bill. This bill got a lot of stuff in it. Literally big, beautiful bill. Yeah. In my winning writing class with Glenn Kremont at Stanford, we had an exercise that we had an exercise that we would do to simplify what we're saying. And so like we would start the class. This is just a famous

writing class at Stanford. We would start the class with our laptops out and he would put on like 10 terms that are not like that complicated, but they definitely can be simplified and just simplify, simplify, simplify. That's a good exercise. Yeah. That's like a bonus mini exercise. A bonus mini exercise. For you to do on your own time, not during this podcast. Oh, and then just to bring it back to our case studies where we're always talking about the different companies that actually implement this. SCQA is actually used at Amazon very frequently because every time they launch a product, they actually write a six-page memo ahead of it. And a very big part of it is actually writing a sort of like fake press briefing of like what the product would be when you, when it's being

launched. And that part, they use SCQA. And the way that they use SCQA in this press release at Amazon on is to explain the problem, the user pain point, and what the product clearly solves. It's very simple and easy to understand. Okay, and the really quick mini exercise this time, think about a problem that you're working on, write it out using SCQA, and then say it out loud. That's it. That's your entire pitch. And if you want to take it to the next level, actually take what you wrote and read it out to your friend. And if your friend can repeat back your idea in one sentence, then you've done it right? If not, try again. So every single one of these three frameworks helped change our careers. And we use these daily to build our company, our startup together, but we also

use them in real life with our friends, our partners, and some of the examples that we shared. Yeah, so if this episode was interesting or helpful or you enjoyed it, just imagine what's coming next. So please subscribe to Tiger Sisters podcast so that you can be notified the next time we drop an episode. And if you're listening to this podcast on Apple or Spotify, please give us a five-star review. It really just takes five seconds to do so. And it helps other people discover our podcast. Yes. And also subscribe to our newsletter, Tiger Sisters newsletter, which is going to be linked in the description.

And also send this episode to a friend. In fact, send it to everyone you know every single person you've ever come in contact with because it really helps us. Thanks, guys. We'll see you next time. Bye.