Tiger Sisters - What Harvard and Stanford did NOT teach us

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to the season three finale of the Tiger Sisters. In this season, Gene and I were so lucky and grateful that we're able to talk to billionaires, investors, CEOs, people who are just so successful in their fields, and they were able to give us some incredible advice. So this is our bonus wrap-up episode where we talk about the main takeaways, and we're also going to go through some of our more normal segments like roses and thorns, all the things that you know and love. I'm Sheree, I'm Gene, and we're the Tiger Sisters. Stick around until the end of the episode for not only all of our favorite parts, but also our top learnings from all of our guests this season. And we'll get started right after this break. Hey guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on sisters matcha.com.

Starting point is 00:00:57 We have sweatshirts and t-shirts that we designed yourselves. Go check it out. And please rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. These ratings are so important for the distribution and survival of Tiger Sisters podcast. Thank you for your support. And we're back. So let's get started on Roses and Thorns, which we haven't done for a while. Sheree, can you kick us off?

Starting point is 00:01:17 I would say my rose is that I'm in my most, like, active state that I've been in a very long time in terms of working out. I, if you guys have seen our previous episodes, I talk about working out in our health and diet and exercise episode. And I have a challenge, like our New Year's resolution, to go to the gym 30 days in a row, which is really hard or just being active. of 30 days in a row. So it's been difficult to like achieve that goal, which is not a bad thing, but like it really keeps me motivated to have that internal goal because now I'm trying to go to the gym almost every single day, which like, you know, I've made it 10 days in a row, skip the day, clock reset. I've made it two weeks in a row, skip the day, clock reset. But it's totally fine because at the end of the day, it like just motivates me to be really

Starting point is 00:02:04 active. So I'm really happy that's like my rose is that like oh my gosh like I am getting to a very active and like probably my best physical shape that I've been in a long time and a mini subrose is that I can see my abs for the first time like ever like the share with people. I have like baby abs. No, this is not a show and tell. This is a rose and thorn. But like I like me like baby abs, which I'm really proud of because I feel like it's just my consistency showing up. It is a lagging indicator of the work that I've been putting in since like January. So I'm happy to see the progress there. And so next my thorn is that I feel like I'm going through a pretty big life transition.

Starting point is 00:02:50 And it's something that's been like on my mind recently where I'm also going on dates, which is really fun and exciting. And they've been positive experiences as well. But things are getting more serious. I would say, and like the conversations that I'm having with, you know, the people that I've gone on dates with where it's just like in my 20s, I hadn't had like a serious relationship that it would talk about engagement. But now like things are a lot heavier where I'm like, oh, I'm in my late 20s approaching 30s. Like the conversations that we're having are not just like,

Starting point is 00:03:20 ha ha, ha, he he fun conversations. They're a bit more serious about like what we want in the future if we're compatible with each other. And those conversations can be fun, but they just, It just feels like that there's a lot more at stake now that those conversations are happening. And it's something I've been reflecting on. It's just like, yeah, it just feels like a life transition. Like I haven't been here before to like have these conversations. They're a bit harder to have. And I have to really dig deep, show more vulnerability.

Starting point is 00:03:51 And I was like, oh, this is messy sometimes, you know. Oh, honey. So, yeah, it's like not. ha ha ha he he in my early to mid-20s where we're just you know frolicing in the meadow with flowers no now we're just like if there's a baby in the future will you wake up in the middle of the night to take care of the baby so that I can rest I'm like oh my god these are too serious of conversations but I think it's growing up um it's a part of it so sorry not to be a downer but I'm like god this is it's hard maybe I'm regressing because I'm back to ha ha ha he he and I'm yeah you're regressing and then I'm

Starting point is 00:04:33 going this way we're going like that yeah I'm all ha ha ha he he yeah so as you should be after the serious conversations you've had for the last eight years oh my god that's true so enjoy your ha ha ha he he he shouldn't it will so jean what is your rose and your thorn yes so I'll start with my thorn and it is just that a Over the last month and in the next couple weeks, two of my really good friends are moving away from L.A. One, actually, both of them I know from undergrad, but one I've known for and been really close to since literally freshman year. So that's like what, like, I don't know, almost 20 years. And the other one I got to know better over the last couple years. And one has moved away to New York.

Starting point is 00:05:24 and now one is moving to Alaska. So, guys, I got range and friends, okay? First of all, she's got range. So, yeah, there's just kind of like a bit of like a morning that comes with that because one of them, the one that's moving to Alaska, he was actually the first person that I talked to after everything, like, went down with my breakup. And like, I say that to basically illustrate. how close of a friend he is.

Starting point is 00:05:57 And it's just going to be sad to not have him around. And I don't know, like we would just do things all the time. Like we would have, you know, dinners and dinners and night like game nights. And it's just like your friends who you do like low key but really fun things with. Yeah. And you just really, really deeply enjoy your time together. So that's my thorn. But I guess I could visit him in Alaska.

Starting point is 00:06:23 True. plan a trip around it yeah okay that's that's yeah that's that's the upside to it and then the the rose I was going to talk about was just that um as you guys may have heard I've started dating again um which has just turned out to be actually like really fun and positive and um like one question that I had because I haven't dated in eight plus years basically So one question I had going back into it is I was sort of wondering if it would be as fun as it used to be or if it was going to feel like a totally different, a new paradigm, you know, since I'm so much older than I was last time, almost 10 years older. But no, it's it's been fun so far. And it's just really encouraging.

Starting point is 00:07:16 That's the roads. I think it's good to have a positive experience getting back out there because it can be really scary. Yeah. So it's nice to leave it feeling just happy and positive and excited and hopeful. Yeah. Because I know that like talking to some girlfriends, if they've gone on like really bad dates, like multiple in a row, it kind of just like little cuts kind of crush the spirit of it when it comes to dating. Yeah. And I'm also just really grateful that I'm having a positive experience because I was sort of like so unsure because it was such a long period of not. dating that I was really not like nervous but just like the the unknown was more vast than it ever has been but now she knows but now she is all knowing yeah um so yeah I'm happy about that it's exciting I mean who knows like I'm sure it'll be like a roller coaster over time and there'll be

Starting point is 00:08:17 times when I'll be sad and I'll share that with you guys too but um yeah for now I feel positive about it. Sissy. And next we'll talk about our main learnings from all of season three. Hey everyone, quick break to share something special, Sisters Macha. We've launched limited batches of ceremonial grade, single estate, single cultivar Macha, straight from the family farm Shari worked on in Japan. It's pure, authentic, and crafted with intention.

Starting point is 00:08:47 Head to SistersMacha.com to grab yours before it sells out. Make Macha your daily ritual for lasting energy and focus. Okay, one concept that I noticed resonated a lot with all of our subscribers is the idea of be dumb to succeed. That was episode with Vutran that maybe Shri will put the infographic of here. She's not using her arms, so I'm not sure. Oh, there we go. She's committed. Yeah, that one was like a big hit.

Starting point is 00:09:19 Yeah, I think it was, it's also just so counterintuitive. Voo is such a smart, intelligent person, but it's so funny to, like, see him throughout the conversation. And his, like, main takeaway was, like, you should go max dumb. And I think it's just, like, so counterintuitive, but I think there's a lot to dig in there. Like, number one, it is such a good saying to, like, go into a conversation and go to first principles and be, like, what exactly are we talking about here? And instead of, like, being at, like, level 10, you go all the way back down to level zero. You ask why over and over again so that you. can understand at its core what people are talking about or what the concept is because something

Starting point is 00:09:59 Vuce said that I thought was really interesting was like if you try to be a little bit smart, you end up as midwit. And then you end up like, he said midwit. Yeah, he said midwit. So like it's better heard that phrase before. Oh really? It's something that people use in a very derogatory term like someone who's like what? Yeah. Like just means mid? Like mid. like mid smart like if you try to come off as smart you end up at midwit and then that's why it's always best to go look into this term go to first principles and go max dumb yeah I agree with that because I feel like I've seen that in a lot of instances where if people are just actually I think this phrase maybe is sometimes overused but intellectually honest and you're just like you know what I

Starting point is 00:10:50 don't understand this thing that you're saying. And I can't, we can't move forward in this conversation unless I actually understand what you're talking about. And then they dig into it and like actually ask the questions and get something explained to them. That I think has a lot more people give that a lot more respect than you just kind of like trying to roll with it and try to, um, sort of pretend that you actually know what people are talking about. Yeah. The smartest people I know are the ones who are least afraid to say they do not know or do not understand a concept. I think it takes a lot of self-confidence, a lot of bravery, and a lot of just like accepting like, oh, I don't understand this. I know I'm not a dumb person. So could you please explain it to me in a different way?

Starting point is 00:11:38 Yeah. Because I think just like honestly the worst people that I've come into contact with are the people who are like are just pretending, pretending to know because that doesn't help anyone. Yeah. Yeah. And I also. think that the smartest people that I know are ones that are always, I think they always acknowledge the fact that there's always more to learn about something. And they pretty much like come into any conversation with being like, you know what? I'm really not the expert on XYZ. Like even though I'm literally a billionaire investor. For example, Jeremy Liu, when he was telling us about his hot take, one hot take that he has is about nationalizing the investment

Starting point is 00:12:17 into AI so that we can actually progress faster as a country, meaning the United States, than the other superpowers in AI. And in part of the conversation, I remember him saying like, oh, you know what? I actually have a lot more research and understanding to do on this specific topic. But from what I know, this is my opinion. And my opinion is a strong opinion weekly held. So I think those two concepts actually tie together. The idea of Max Dum, go Max Dum.

Starting point is 00:12:44 and then the second concept of strong opinion weekly held, and then also like acknowledging, hey, there's so much more research. There's so much more I have to learn about this area. Yeah. It kind of just reminds me of me. When I was in college and I was studying computer science, I remember being so afraid of looking dumb or so afraid to raise my hand and ask a clarifying question because I was not in a psychologically safe environment to do so. And I just like had very low confidence in myself. So like I didn't want to look dumb in front of my peers, my classmates. And like the professors were like for the most part very, very nice, except for one professor that made me feel very dumb. But like they're all very accommodating one. I would go to the professor's office hours. They'd be

Starting point is 00:13:29 super nice. But like in front of other people, I didn't want to seem dumb. And that mindset held me back so much like caring what other people thought or not wanting to look dumb. This can be applied in the classroom and like in business school too. And in the workplace, like, I don't know how many times, like, people are just, like, biting their tongue or not asking a question because they don't want to seem like they don't have it together. But honestly, at the end of the day, if you don't speak up, you're only hurting yourself. And chances are other people have the same question that you do. Yeah. And this is also her villain origin story because then she became the present of Columbia Women in Computer Science Club.

Starting point is 00:14:06 That's true. That's a massive club at Columbia. It's true. And you guys threw this, like, huge conference, I remember. Yeah. We had conferences and networking events. But yeah, that was my villain origin story because like most of my classes were dominated by men at the time. And yeah, office hours were not very nice.

Starting point is 00:14:25 People were pretty cutthroat and computer science. So it's nice to have a community where you feel where I felt like I could go to and feel very safe. The second main takeaway that I thought was super impactful over the entire season was something that Imran Khan said, which was basically the equivalent of having. emotional control. How would you put it? Emotional regulation. Self-management. Emotional self-regulation. Yeah, exactly. So basically, Imran was saying that his whole entire life, just the way that his demeanor is, is that he never gets too excited about anything, and then he never gets too depressed about anything. And for him, I think it was much more of like a natural personality trait, but he attributes that personality trait to really helping him succeed in a lot of ways. And you can kind of see how it works out in like,

Starting point is 00:15:19 you know, he was an investor. He like worked on like huge massive deals. He was the chief strategy officer at Snapchat and like brought us all the way through like IPO and like major roller coasters and in the stock price. And I could see why that would be something that is a really successful person's like source of power. Just the ability to kind of like ride through any waves, never get too overly excited and never get depressed. It's a very, like, level-headed, like, inner Zen, perhaps, where, like, he's able to sort through all the highs and lows without, like, you know, throwing himself and feeling every single bump along the way.

Starting point is 00:16:03 Yeah. That helps you be more successful in the long term because then you don't get dragged down by failures. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I really liked Imron's. failure story and also Jeremy Liu's failure story because those were the two people that explicitly talked about getting fired really early on in their career, which is like a really

Starting point is 00:16:26 powerful thing to share, especially to like two younger people in their careers. I candidly have never been fired. But like if I were fired, I know that it would be probably one of the worst days for me in my life. I could just only imagine it, you know, like I would be a complete mess. I'd crash out. Like, I'd be really sad. But it's like really encouraging to see that like these successful, I would say Titans of Industry were fired at one point. And not only did they bounce back, but they had massively successful careers after that. It, you know, it wasn't, maybe it was a low for them, but they were able to grow their careers in such a meaningful way. And also now look back on the firing story and see how that related to the.

Starting point is 00:17:13 them getting their next like stepping stone to like really jump off and succeed yeah and i want to also call out that they were both actually fired like not laid off like it wasn't like their entire org was you know laid off or something they were specifically they both said fire performance performance reasons and so that's like even it makes the anecdote even more powerful right they're basically being like yeah i sucked like i was bad yeah for one reason or another. Yeah. And then I was fired. But then like, look at us now. Hi. Yeah. I know. No. I mean, like, they kind of were just like, yeah, we sucked. We didn't know how bad we were and we were let go. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. So is that, do you think like that's like a third takeaway? That's a third lesson.

Starting point is 00:18:02 Is that you can always bounce back from anything from being fired? Um, I don't, I think that's just like a generalization. I don't think everyone will bounce back or can't bounce back. I don't know. It sounds like a pretty traumatic. thing but I guess my takeaway from those stories is that there are many paths that you can go on when things don't go your way when things seem really shitty like it might be shitty in the moment but it's not going to be the thing that like defines you you don't have to make it the life defining thing is that I got fired but they were able to really learn from what had happened and their next opportunity was from that really shitty moment. Like it was born from that shitty moment.

Starting point is 00:18:46 Yeah. Which gives me a lot of hope that like for the shitty moments that I'll have in the future, no doubt they will be there for whatever reason. Like it might not be the worst thing in the entire world, even though in the moment it might feel that way. I think another way to think about it or another way to put it is that life is long. Career years are long. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:08 And had these two people. not specifically told us those stories because we asked them. We said, what is one of your failures? Tell us about your failures. And they told us that story. Had we not asked them, like, maybe the world would have never known that they both were fired at one point, you know? Like, that's not something that you just, like, randomly share with people.

Starting point is 00:19:26 And any sort of article written about them, it's a blip. It's like the tiniest blip in the most insanely successful careers for both of them. Like, you never would have. No, that's because it's not going to be. it yeah yeah but like it didn't even really there was no like negative consequence of it yeah overall yeah uh in the long run in the long run so that's just i don't know i'm sort of like just like repeating it for myself you know what i mean yeah to just be like oh like we never would have known it never it would never be mentioned in their like linkedin or like any sort of like Forbes article or time

Starting point is 00:20:04 time magazine article written about them yeah so it's like it's like like fine to fail. Yeah, I feel like also like greatness lies ahead of us. And greatness lies ahead of you. Hmm. Yes. Amen. Amen.

Starting point is 00:20:24 And then the third and last main takeaway that came from Jonah Goodhart is that it is okay to pause. Yeah, I really enjoyed this part of the conversation with Jonah because I think when we think about entrepreneurs and founders or successful people. What we see on the outside, especially in the articles, is that like, they're on the grind. Like everyone's grinding. They're on the wheel. Like, you know, it's always go, go, go. I think that is the impression that like we see in media and, you know, in culture. But honestly, I really like Jonah's advice. He's like, it's okay to take a pause because in that pause, you're not only taking care of yourself. You're taking care of your like mental health, your physical health, and in that, you're helping yourself get even further if you are able to pause

Starting point is 00:21:12 and take a moment for yourself. It's okay to pause. And it was nice to get permission, I guess, from such a successful person. I think it's the concept also. Some people say it's the idea of slow down to speed up. That like sometimes you need to take a rest and like walk away from the problem in hand to then be able to process it and see it in a different light. Something that I've been thinking about is that I move a mile a minute or like I'm someone who really likes to take action. I'm someone who's like go go go myself. I'm just like what is the next thing that I can do to move this forward. A lot of the times I don't give myself enough grace and enough time to really think things through and to let it marinate.

Starting point is 00:22:04 David Shim talked about this in his episode. It's a little bit of a different context, but he talked about it in the context of public speaking that whenever he's preparing for speech, he always likes to take time away from the speech itself so it can process in the background while he is doing other things. But I think the underlying concept is the same. It's like you can step away from what you're doing

Starting point is 00:22:28 so that you can really bring your best self when you step back into it. Yeah, I love that phrasing of it. And I think what you were saying before, especially when it applies to entrepreneurship, is so true in terms of like what I'm so used to thinking. Like coming into entrepreneurship, I remember I have a lot of very, very, very extremely successful friends who were founders and entrepreneurs. And back in the day when it was like very much the Silicon Valley mindset and it was the like, you know, founder is everything mindset, I remember they used to be like. Oh, yeah, like we sleep in the warehouse. We like sleep in the office.

Starting point is 00:23:07 We sleep under our desks. Yeah, we sleep under our desks. And so for me, you know, ever since I entered my professional life, I always thought that that was the concept of an entrepreneur. That was the concept of a startup founder is that you had to be that exact archetype. Otherwise, you could never be successful. And then I also thought that you had to be a tech entrepreneur. in order to be a startup founder basically, which is obviously not the case. So I think that it can be successful depending on the economic conditions.

Starting point is 00:23:45 But it's not the best path or the right path for everyone. I like it. Slow down to speed up. All right. So wrapping up this episode, one last question and one last topic is Cherie, what are you excited about for season four of Tiger Sisters? We have so many amazing episodes coming to you soon for season four. I love that we're returning to kind of like this format where we're talking to one another. Yeah, we were like us.

Starting point is 00:24:13 It's going to be a lot of this. We were experimenting with season three with some interviews, which I think we're really successful. We were able to get the most out of them and really get all this incredible insight. But I think, you know, as we're experimenting with formats, we'd love to hear from you what you guys like to see for season four. where we're turning to more like topic-based conversations. We have some coming up about networking, about public speaking, about business school, and giving you basically everything that we've learned over the last few years and also our experiences working in the professional workplace.

Starting point is 00:24:49 So all that to say, I'm really excited for the topics and also drawing from some of the questions that you guys had that are the most burning. Yeah, I'm so excited for season four because it's, It's essentially a culmination of everything we've experimented with and everything we've learned over the last three seasons. And we are also still trying to line up some interviews for season four. And we're also going to be applying learnings from this past season. And already one of them is that we can be a lot more sort of nimble in the interview questions and have them be a lot more personalized for the interviews coming up. So I am super excited.

Starting point is 00:25:32 So many more learnings to come. A lot of explainer videos actually, which people have been asking for. And I'm really excited to get out there. Please share what you enjoyed or what you're looking forward to for season four. And that is a wrap. Yay. Thank you guys so much for an incredible season three. We'll see you very soon for season four.

Starting point is 00:25:55 And as always, please remember to like, comment, and subscribe. and we'd so appreciate it if you can share this episode with someone who might find it helpful. And to rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Thanks guys. Bye next time. Bye.

Tiger Sisters - What Harvard and Stanford did *NOT* teach us

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Tiger Sisters - What Harvard and Stanford did NOT teach us