TigerBelly - Dr. K Analyzes Bobby Lee

Episode Date: March 11, 2026

Harvard-trained Psychiatrist and Healthy Gamer founder Dr. K joins TigerBelly and Bobby ends up in a surprisingly honest conversation. We chat meditation bliss, the crash after comedy specials, gaming addiction vs drug addiction, ego and relationships, psychedelics, porn and dopamine, and the question that stops Bobby in his tracks. Limited Time Offer – Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code TIGERBELLY at huel.com/TIGERBELLY. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! For simple, online access to personalized and affordable care for Hair Loss, Weight Loss, and more, visit www.hims.com/Belly 

It's a place for overstimulah It's a new song I'm working on. It's a place for overstimulation. It's like a fever dream. It's a fever dream. It's like, okay. Yeah, yeah. It's a new song I'm working on.

He's also a musician as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, great. It's a place for overstimulation. It's a fever dream. I get the lyrics down. Give me another one. Oh, um.

Oh, um. Chaos Central. Chaos Central. The generates. Generates. What are you doing? Your headphone teacher? Yeah.

Headphone teacher. Headphone teacher. That's a rock band. Teaching how to use the headphones. Yeah. Just trying to get my vocal stuff ready, you know, for the pod. It's sounding good. Because I just woke up, so I have not even really here.

Yeah, I was going to ask how long ago did you wake up? Let's be honest here. Seven minutes ago, maybe eight minutes. Eight to ten minutes ago. What time did you go to bed? Oh, my God, I don't even know. It was a rough one. 6.30.

Why? 6.30 in the morning, playing Starfield again, grinding it out. Music to Dr. K's ears. 6 a.m. Game. Dr. Alok K. Yep. Dr.

Let's all meditate. You want to meditate? Can we actually meditate? I do. I really want to. You think I'm a liar? Wait, what? You accused me being a liar?

I just think, let's meditate. Yeah, but you were doing some fake shit. You're a fake shit. You're a fake shit. We have a guest here. What are you getting combative for? I wanted to meditate, I said. They used to date.

They used to date, Dr. Kay, for ten. Yeah, let's get it. First of all, let's start here, okay? He's from Houston, Texas, right? Wow. He's a psychiatrist. Yes. Okay.

Very handsome. Oh. Yeah. Well, that's a sexual way. I didn't say that in a sexual way. No, I'm saying a great way. You know, I've never hooked up with an Indian person, but, you know. Really?

No, I've never have. Really? Yeah, yeah. That's surprising. I want to. Weird. I'm not a gay either. What's surprising about that?

I'm just trying to figure out what exactly what kind of energy I should be bringing today. Oh. You know, so it's, I can see that you're ramping yourself up. No, no, no, here. Let's let, I can come down to your level. Oh. I can come up to yours. Oh.

Or Bobby, you can come up to mine. Why do you, why do you assume mine is lower? You got to. Oh, slam. Just because we're quiet doesn't mean that we're not energetic. Oh. Yeah. Hey.

You know what I mean? Like snaps. So we can. Love. I don't know. You don't have opposable thumbs. Sorry, sorry. What a revelation.

He doesn't have opposable thumbs. You can't snap your fingers? Yeah, I can't do any of that. Anyway, yeah. So you're, sorry. It's all good. Did you meet Kat?

I met Kat earlier. And I'm sorry, can I get your name? It's Kalila. Kalila, okay. Yeah, it's a little bit of a tongue twister, but. Okay. Yeah. Cool.

I'm all of this. So I will go up to your level. Sure. Okay. Because you were meditating earlier in the green room, I heard. I was. Yeah, yeah. The bathroom? Yeah. That's every time in the bathroom is meditating. Yeah. What are you being rude for? No, I'm not being rude. No, so seriously, if you guys want to know, like, the ecstasy of meditation. I'd love to. All you have to do is imagine, you know, when you really need to go pee and then you, like, finally, like, get into the bathroom.

So I think the best example of this is if you're on a road trip and you, like, pull over to use the bathroom. And then you go in. into the bathroom and you really need to go and it's full. And then you have to wait. And then that like 30 seconds where you're waiting for someone to make room. Is it one or two? I'm talking about one. One. I think it's easier to do with one.

I do it with two. But yeah, two is two. You do it with either one. We can talk about two in a second. Okay, okay. Because I feel like that's a whole other type of restraint that like I have to tap into like really dig deep for that one. Yeah.

And then then then when you. you go, it feels absolutely blistered. Eye rolling, yeah. Yeah, right? So that's what we're shooting for when we meditate is that sensation. Whoa. The relief. Yeah. Yeah, so it's relief and it's bliss. What it

actually is is the alleviation of desire. See, we think that like fulfilling our desires makes us happy, but when we really fulfill them, we make them go away. Does that make sense? Yes. Wow. Right? Yeah. So, so this whole time we're like trying to chase our desires, but actually getting rid of

it's the stillness afterward. Wow. That's what I wanted, well, we're getting too ahead of ourselves, but we're not. It goes right along, it's, when I think about how you felt after you finally filmed your special and then you went into a deep depression, is it, sorry. Let's talk about that. I mean, that doesn't sound like deep depression is the opposite of what we're going for,

but we should absolutely talk about it. We're going for up. When I think about it. There had been this like bowl of hands. In your face, man. Opposable thumbs? Why is it do, like you said, why do we feel so empty after the goal has been achieved a lot of times?

Well, I think we got to ask you. So tell me about the special. What? Yeah. So what happened was for about a year and a half, I was preparing for this thing, this event. Yeah. And I had a lot of fear behind it because it's like I had never done a special before.

Okay. It was a lot of pressure to involve like, you know, a lot of people online and were like, you're never going to do one or, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? It's been on and on this thing. And I finally signed a deal with the company and I'm like, so I spent a year and a half working, working, working, working. And I worked harder on it than I've never, I've worked.

worked on anything else and then I was then the week of real dread you know but I was prepared and then I got sick that week oh my God yeah I got sick that week there was a lot going on and you know she was there she was there everyone was there everyone here was there and I and then it came off pretty good you know I mean I did it and and then the following week it was so depressing I just I had this a kind of not an emptiness but it was just like a I had to get on Exapro because of it. What were you feeling?

You know, I've always had a low humming of depression. Okay. Like a buzz, you know what I mean? Nothing that's like, you know, too despairing, you know? It wasn't like crippling. It was just always there. Just overcast. Overcast of sadness.

Yeah. And I would have glimpses of joy, you know, but it's always been there ever since I was a kid. it sort of deepened that level of depression. It was also like it went up like a couple of levels below that. And then I, um, I just couldn't get out of it. And so my psychiatrist was like, let's try it,

lexopro. Because it was the first time I ever really even mentioned this low level of depression. But it was just like an awareness of it that was like glaring after the special. What were you expecting yourself to feel victory? After the special. And just like, I did it. And I did feel that.

I mean, you know, that weekend, it was great. I was, you know, I was talking to everybody out backstage. There was a lot, there was like a lot of magic happening. Yeah. All my reps were there. You know what I mean? The theaters were packed. You know what I mean?

20 years in the making. Yeah, yeah. It was just just a lot happening, you know? It was like all the executives were like coming up to me like, we got it. That's amazing. You know what I mean? It was just like everything that I thought was going to go. wrong didn't happen.

What do you? Is that your listening face? Yeah. Why do I smirk, though? I'm not smirking. I'm just happy to hear it because it was really good. And I've had, yeah. What bothers you about her smiling?

Yeah, let's get into that. Is that a joke? I want you to figure out. I mean, look, like, we can joke if you guys want. No, no. I was born on Twitch. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm not joking.

Yeah. It annoyed me. Yeah, what, what, what, I don't know what it is. Okay. Okay, let me, let me, write that down, write that down. Can you show me what it looked like at? She was like feeling jolly listening to the story.

I think she was engaged. Yeah. And she was normal stuff. No, no, no, I mean, but it's like she's engaged, right? But her, if she's smiling even a little bit, she's engaged, but what she's, what she's projecting to Bobby is amusement. And like Bobby is talking about, this is something that's 20 years. the making, this is a guy who's had overcast skies his whole fucking life. And then you have

your monumental achievement. And right before he goes into it, everything is about to go wrong. He's never done it before. It's a real special. Everyone's showing up. He's saying everyone in the room was there. That sounds supportive. It's fucking terrifying. Because when he fucks up, because he's sick, right? He's never done it before. He's practiced. Everyone tells him he's going to be great, but he doesn't know that. He's never told anyone about. the overcast skies so what if what if he fucks up right this is his shot and then it's magical and everyone is is celebrating and you feel those celebrations too sorry to get into it but then the next day the one thing that doesn't change is the overcast skies right and so when we have when we

spend 20 years of our life building up to something we think it will change something fundamental within us but it doesn't and then what do you do yeah what do you do Right? Because now you have achieved. Everyone told you, oh, yeah, like, Bobby, the reason that you're unhappy is because you haven't made it quite enough. Yeah. And then you make it, and then you wake up the day in the next day and the overcast, the clouds are still there. And then you're fucked. Wait, what's so, see, that's what I'm saying.

At the same point, at the same point when I was telling my story, that's when you were smirking. You smirk the same exact point. What the fuck is your problem? Do you think that is a rational response? I think if we're, I think that it is very easy for someone to burst out laughing. If someone bursts out laughing when we talk about the depth of how someone is fucked, I think it's a not inappropriate reaction to get upset with that. Not to make you the bad guy.

He loves it though. But it's not inappropriate. It's not. And I know you guys, y'all all do this thing where like he's like mad at you, right? But this is a fucking comedy podcast. So then everybody laughs about it. Yeah. And this is the one time during the comedy podcast where if you laugh, he gets mad, which is weird, right?

Sometimes he hits me. Is that normal? I don't hit you. That's insane. So now you're clapping back. You see that? You're clapping back. Let's talk about her.

No, no, no. What she's doing? Yeah. And lobster hands. So it's important, right? because if he's bearing his soul and you laugh, which I think, like, we all use humor as a defense mechanism. And then, and then now, like, I make you,

now the lens is on you. And so you're like, okay, let's divert the lens off of me. Oh, no, he hits me, especially in the climate of the Epstein files. Yes. And so he is a man. And so, oh, my God. Now, now, oh, God. What are you accusing me of?

Yeah. Anyway, let's. All right, so let's go back to the special, all right? Okay. I apologize. I'm sorry, too. That's what I wanted. What was that just now?

I don't know. Yeah, what is that? I don't know. I don't either. Because I can't tell. I feel like y'all are deeply uncomfortable, but also authentic. Like, I think that was like, like, I know we're pretending to joke, but I think if people are watching this, like, there's actually something really important about that exchange. Actually, now you can see it in her face.

You see it? Yeah. That doesn't bother you now, right? No. Right? There's something really genuine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

It's so funny. I think what you're like... I guess this is what we're doing. I'm here to talk about my book. We're going to talk about your book. Why? No, but you just put a spotlight on a behavior. Yeah.

Right? And the thing is that I don't think as I don't think we are. I don't think anything I do is real. I think it's all deflection. I think it's all like, you know, I mean. not listening. I think it's a lot of, you know, and this, it's very glaring.

Yeah. I'm like that with, like, I was with Eric Andre the other night. And he, I didn't see him in years, right? And he kept pulling my shirt up repeatedly, you know what I mean? Right. And then, it was really awkward, you know what I mean? He was like, kind of, and it was like,

and I realized that that was my relationship with every comedian. Just, there's no, how are you, this and that? It's just, it's all play. It's all play. it's all like, you know what I mean, let's not think about what's really going on or being in the moment or feeling or anything like that. You know what I mean? Or sharing things. Sure. And it's like I don't have in A.A. I do have deeper relationships, I think. But with, you know, with everyone here, I think it's, I don't think it's real. I mean, I've been trying with Gilbert. What in the, I've been trying with Gilbert. What I mean? No, with he used to find something. What the hell? What the fucking hell? With the deposable thumbs.

We were, Dr. K, for some context, we were together for a decade. Okay. Yeah. And now we're. I think you know what would be fun? Please tell us. If you guys don't give me context. Ooh.

So what do you think our relationship is, Bobby and I? Give me time, though. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, you got to give them time, dude. Just keep it blinding. We'll see if I can figure it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so.

We're together for a decade, but aren't anymore. Aren't anymore. No, no. And now co-hosts a podcast. We co-hosted while we were together as well. Okay. Yeah. We'll get into that later.

You see his brain? You see his brain. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's business. Ew. That's so not how I see it. Yeah, right.

It's business and pleasure. No, it's business. I'll tell you what it is. It's business and family. It's business and family. Tough nut to crack right here. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Let's go back to that. Yeah. All right. Let's start somewhere. Stick to something. Can I get a queen of a clap? Can we do one more?

Yeah, let's do a proper intro first. Can we? We did it. No. Okay. Okay. Do we do not? I think we can do an intro if you want to, but I think I have introduced myself if people are listening to this.

That's exactly how I felt about it. Dr. Kay. Right? So, I mean. God, I love you, man. You're a good guy. What? Nothing.

Dude? Nothing. Okay. I'm starting to love you, too. I'm getting there. Yeah. Not quite there yet. I think I'm going to get there, though.

You'll get there. I think you'll get there. Yeah. Everyone gets there. That's weird? Yeah, that's the wink. A wink was weird. It's brocode.

It's broke code. It wasn't weird. It's a code that you don't fully understand. I winked at him too. You didn't see that, but I- Ron Alex? Yeah. Do you guys see the wink?

I saw it. You don't fully understand it. But you all got it, right, guys? His is also way more subtle. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Who, who, who, come on, guys. Who, who, who, who, okay.

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Okay. So, and then I was in the deep depression. Deep depression. And I was talking to my psychiatrist, Dr. Mike. And, what? Anyway, and he, we talked about it. And so I, so then I got Alexa Pro and. Sorry.

Burping was fine. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Better out than that, I say. It was just like the longest. You were standing. directly in his eyes.

I'm so sorry. He went. I'm interrupting this. No, no, no, it's better out than in. It's out. That's a good. My grandfather used to say that. Yeah.

We'll talk about that when we do number two. Oh, yeah. You remember all the little points. This is great. This is going to be a three-hour podcast. I can tell. Can I have the pad, please? Yeah, of course.

Oh, yeah, get the pad. Get the pad going. So anyway, I had never seen. See, so a little back story about me is that with all the, every TV show or movie as an actor, that I've never really seen it, and especially doing stand-up, I've never seen anything. I just can't watch myself. So then I got on Alexa Pro and, you know, the editing, my, my special, I have another podcast called Bad Friends on the second floor of Bad Friends. Oh, okay.

So I just go up and watch, you know what I mean? So I watched the whole thing a couple of times through. and I don't know if it's the Lexa Pro or my growth as a human being I think it's the Lexa Pro but I can sit there and watch it and not really judge it and I really the first run through I was like I'm pretty good I'm pretty good you know I it's like I was astounded by some of my the timing of like being more relaxed

because when I was a young kid I used to be you know what I mean? And I couldn't stand silence. But here I was like the transitions were smooth. You know, it was pretty well, like, anyway, I was pretty proud of it, you know? So, but I don't know if that's Alexa Pro or whatever, you know what I mean? When did you watch? How many, how many days or weeks after you watched it?

How many, how long after it aired did you watch it? Probably three weeks. So you had been on Lexapro for three weeks at that point? It doesn't air until November, but they're editing it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. So, but, so I got on Lexaprope, and then two or three weeks later, I saw the special.

I recently saw it like maybe three or four days ago. And how would you have expected, what would you have expected from your reaction that wasn't there? Because you make it sound like you were surprised by your lack of rumination, judgment. Like you could watch it and appreciate the work that you do. What was the question again? So when you watched it,

yeah? You were, it seems like you were surprised that you were not more. judgmental. And then what, so what would, if you hadn't been on Lexapro, because it's not clear that it was Lexapro. Okay.

But if you had, I think, I assume that I would have been like really more judgey about it. In the past, he's like just cringes and runs away when he's had to watch any of the stuff.

He's, talking about a reservation on is what I did. Yeah, so we went to a screening of one of, um, one of the shows that he was on, a regular on. And we went through the whole party, the whole thing.

It's okay. Yeah, yeah. I'll let you all. He said hi to everyone. Once it was time, once the actual episode went on, he, like, froze. Like, you could visibly see him, like, just fully clench. And then I got up. And then started walking away, like, not even saying by to anyone or even, like, signaling to me, like, hey, we're out of here.

He was just almost like a fighter flight. Like, I got to get the fuck out of here. Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah. I really remember that. It just happened for a goat. I mean, that goat movie, that animated movie. I went to the premiere.

As soon as I heard my voice, I left. So I did fuck up there. You know what I mean? I heard Andrew Santino. He's so good in the movie, his voice. Yeah. And then you hear mine, I'm like, I had this reaction of like, I got to get out of here.

But is that a common thing, Dr. Kay, to not feel comfortable watching ourselves, even hearing our own voice? Dude, I cannot watch myself. Okay, cool. That makes me feel like that. What is that? I mean, so I think it's a couple of different things.

So one is, I guess this is, it's interesting. No one's ever asked me that. I just had this thought. We have an idea of who we are in our heads. It's very different from who we are in the world. Oh, yeah. Right? So I think first and foremost, like, when I listen to my voice, I can't stand my voice.

I consider my voice to be excessively nasally. And so I think sometimes it's just hard to see our performance because we have so many protective illusions about who we are. And then when we see ourselves, I think there's also probably like a cognitive bias. So on the one hand, we have like a protective cognitive bias. On the other hand, I'm guessing that most human beings, if they look at their work, they will probably highlight the worst parts. Right? So when I like cook for my kids, they'll eat it. I mean, they'll love it.

They'll gobble it down. But then I will hyper focus on the things that I got wrong. Right. Right. So I think some people, especially who are very craft oriented, because in order to be Michelin Star Chef, successful comedians, podcast hosts, right, we have to be critical of our own work. So I think there's a lot of that.

I think with Bobby, there's another layer, though. So I think there's like regular humans, no offense, Bobby. None taken. And then there's the extraordinary. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, I think that, you know, it's clear to me already that you carry around a lot on the inside, like your internal environment. Oh, maybe. What's up?

You know, whether it's the substance use, whether it's being a comedian, you know, like there's something about, I don't know exactly what's. going on. I'm curious, just a couple of questions pop into my mind. When you watch yourself, do you, is the thing that is the most disturbing that that isn't you? Yeah, I mean, it, the first thing comes up is, oh, that's what I kind of look like. Okay. It's a little shocking. Okay. You know, I always thought that like, I always had this thought where it's like, let's say there was no system as mirrors or even a pond where I could see my reflection. And we were just kind of for 30 years I existed, and then one day somebody invented a mirror. If I saw myself, I would probably take a shotgun and just shoot my brain. You know what I mean? I think that.

Because in my mind, I'd be like, oh, I'm Brad Pitt. I look good. And if I saw the mirror, I don't think, I don't think it would be, I would ingest well. But it's not, but you know, there are mirrors, right? So you're seeing something on the screen that is not just your physical appearance. When you see yourself on a screen, what bothers you so much about? what you see. What makes it intolerable? Because it's intolerable. Like he gets up and he just walks out. Yeah, yeah. I think more with acting is my, I've always been paranoid as an actor. You know, because people make fun of me that you're not that good of an actor. So then it's like, you know, I, um, when I watch myself, I just with the real, because I love film and television

too. I just grew up with it. So I just, I kind of like just compare myself with, you know, and I've done scenes with, you know, big actors, you know, before, Ben Kingsley. Jamie Lee Curtis, these kinds of people, you know what I mean. I think that's what happens as an actor. As a comic, I think what happens is I'm friends with the best comics on planet Earth. And I just watch them. So then when I watch myself, I just, in my mind, I'm like, I'm not as good. You know what I mean?

Which is crazy, though, because, like, the way we see you is insanely talented. Just, like, being at hit special, like, it was insane. And I know that's cool. Like, I don't want it, but it was just crazy, that you don't have that perception of that. I'll tell you, I'll give you an example. When I was at my special, right before they were going to bring me up,

just the whole audience, there was a couple of shows where they were chanting my name, and they were just standing already, you know what I mean? And it's a little bit of a shock of like, you know what I mean, like, oh, you know, I felt that. What did you feel? Like, oh, people like me. Because you don't get that at that, like,

at clubs or... Did that feel good? Yeah. It felt like it gave me the confidence to tear it up. Nice. I felt it. I was like, okay, I'm going to rip this. You know? It was like there's no way to fail.

That's what I felt. Now, if they were like tight and quiet, you know what I mean? Because I've been, you know, as comics we performed in front of tight audiences. You know what I mean? I was expecting that. I was expecting the worst. That's why I worked so hard. that's what we did

shows that were almost impossible to do well on the road before like you know what I mean like tough markets or and whatnot because I just knew that I wanted to prepare myself for any situation and then when it actually happened I was like I think I prepared too much it was like oh it's just a show you know

anyway what's up I think that's huge so I mean this is going to get a bit I'm trying to figure out how to say this you're gay No, I'm just kidding. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

No, no, no, no. Let's an act. Can we analyze that? Did you just hear that? Yeah, I did you hear that. How'd you feel when you heard that? You can't use him against you. No, I'm not using it.

It's an interesting thing. I think she's carrying a lot of responsibility. Oh. Yeah, let's go with this. So like, like here, like this is a podcast that is extra loud. And then I'm thinking, there's just ordinary volume. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there's, there's volume that's above the ordinary.

There's no regular volume. He's purposely been breaking his headphones not to listen. And so I think it's, you know, so I'm trying to think through something. My challenge is that I think if I explain it now, it won't make sense yet. So I'm trying to think about. I can understand things. No, no, I know you can understand things. It's just, I feel like this is one of those things where it's like, if we talk a little bit more, I think maybe it'll become clear.

Okay. And then I think what Kat, Kat has the challenge of filling the space, right? So you're, you're tuned in, like, we're quiet. Yeah. But like if people are listening at home, so I think she's actually, she's, she's serving a very important role, which oftentimes women do. She's, she's the, she's the, this guy. No, I'm serious. This is what a woman get socialized to do, right?

Oh, you're socialized to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she's, do you feel the responsibility? Oh, yeah.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Right? So it's like, it's like she has to step in and make sure that, like, things are okay for everybody. Whereas you and I. Yeah. Actually, yes.

I mean, if you think about it, if you think about it, it's, it's such a low effort joke, right? No offense. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like, right? Let's say that. Let's see this. When he's the lowest, lowest effort of a dog.

It's the bottom of the barrel. Can we say that? It's like, okay, good. Like break glass in case of emergency. Exactly. Call somebody gang. Right? Like that's what happens.

Yeah, yeah. So, so. Like a primal. This actually, this actually signals to me that she's trying really hard. That's not trying hard. No, I mean, no, dude, she's good, right? So if if she's trying hard. Yeah, yeah.

And she produces such. a shitty joke. Like, that's like you're at the bottom of the barrel. It's like desperation. Yeah, yeah, desperation. It's not, it's not. I think we're done. Open mic, open mickey.

I mean, yeah, I get it. I get it. Palala next. Okay, Kat. Yes, please. Okay. Oh, I have a lot of questions. I can't prepare and loaded. No, but let's leave the bottom.

Yeah, so, so I guess this is just what I'm going to say at this point. So, like, I know this is going to sound kind of weird, but. this comes down to like who you are and like what what people are okay so the first thing that I want to point out is you are so worried so like anxiety and rumination and thoughts in your head of living up to a standard so in our own head we have an ego an ego is like an identity of what we think we are the crazy thing is what we are is not what we think we are I know it sounds like really simple, duh, but like when you, the moment that you heard people, so high expectations makes you overprepared, high expectations makes you paranoid, high

expectations makes you anxious. When people are laughing and clapping and chanting your name or whatever, they're standing, right, you would expect in that moment that the expectations are actually at their highest because you're about to go on stage and everyone is already excited. So you would think that that would trigger a crisis in your, ego, right? Because this is like now the expectations are like here. It's not like expectations over six months of preparation, 18 months of preparation. It's like, oh, fuck, these people are expecting me to show up and laugh, right? So then something really cool happens where

if you step away from ego and into yourself, and that's what you did, right? You were like, this is just a show or something like that. You said something that was really simple that actually wasn't about you. It wasn't about whether you can do it or not do it, deliver or not deliver. It's like I come on stage. Okay. I come on stage. Period. I was trying to think about whether that would sound bad or I, anyway.

So now I'm stuck. So when you come on stage, you show up on stage. Dude, the way his face is like, sorry, I'm processing. So when you come, when you go on stage. When you go up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, go up. Get hard on stage. go up on stage, right?

So there is the actual performance of the comedy. There is the, actually, I would say the embodiment of the comedy. Right, so if people are expecting you to embody the comedy and you embody the comedy, then it's fine. Yeah. But I think what you're, can I just say a couple of things? All right, number one, it's that as a comic, I know how to read a room, right?

So it's like, when they were cheering and they were like the energy, I just know what. what that is, right? And I read the room, it had nothing to do with like, you know what I mean, rising to an occasion. Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, right? So you were, and you wanna say a couple things. Another thing, oh, God, you're so good.

The second thing is that, I don't know what it is, and I think that I always tell younger comics, I go, it's not the funniest person that makes it in the business, it's not. It's, I know so many people at the open mic stage growing up where I was just like, oh, this person is a star. They're just the best jokes.

They have the looks. They have everything. But, you know, the difference between them and me is that the guy that makes it is the person that can perform under immense amounts of pressure. There are just some people that are, you know, really good. And then, you know, when the Tonight Show comes out to go see them, they just can't do it. They're not themselves. You know what I mean, they, they crumble.

under the weight of it, you know? And the one thing that I've, I'm pretty 90% of the time, I've always hit the ball. In the right moments, I just, I rise to the occasion. Like, I did that tonight when I was a kid, and I just, I knew that I had to do well, and I just rose to the occasion, I did it, you know what I mean? So it's like, I don't know if I'm not the most talented.

I just can just do it, you know what I mean, in terrible situations, you know what I mean? Yeah, so I think that's actually what's so scary, right? because you can't control who shows up. So I would almost say, like, you know, when you do, the work of doing the comedy is, is like, so you kind of tap into that. And like you read the room and then you're not thinking about living up to expectations. You're reading the room and you're with the room.

You're in the present. And you are doing the work of comedy. That's what it means to show up. And when you actually show up, all of the thoughts and expectations that you have actually empty from your mind. You're not thinking about it. You're not thinking about doing a good job. You're just doing the work of the comedy. And I'm with you that when you say, you know, they crumble on stage. What is it that crumbles? What crumbles is the ego, the identity. They get too trapped in their head. Then they start to choke. Once they start to choke, the choking gets worse. Once you're like,

oh my God, I'm choking. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so I think there's a really important, like I work with a lot of people who are, for lack of a better term, high performers. And what we try to teach even on YouTube and on the internet is like how to tap into that best version of yourself and leave the ego behind. Yeah. Right. So instead of living up to an expectation, do the action, like become, I know this is not going to sound cheesy, but like become one with the action, become completely egos, become a vessel. And when you do that, that's what, that's what really knocks it out of the party. And it doesn't matter. I mean, you can talk about, you know, Olympic athletes who will like enter the zone. You'll talk about the flow state. You can talk about

about people who are, you know, creative, comedians, performers, stuff like that. And I'll even work with people who are like day traders and people in finance. And it's the same. There are some times where like, you know, you're paranoid about whether a trade you're making, like, should I buy crypto, should I sell crypto? But then there are times where like you almost become omniscient and you just like know, like something in your subconscious, everything clicks. I've never heard that word before. It's ever present. That's omnipresent. That's omnipresent. I'm not to make it. I guess.

Kat, what are you doing to do that? Yeah, okay, anyway. I just realized I man splain. It's okay, no, you need to have with her. But I mean, that was. Were you directing it to me? You're the one, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Anyway, so I think that's, and I think the really scary thing about that is that you never know, if you, you can't be sure that you're gonna do that, right? Like the 18 months when you're anxious, you can't predict that when you're about to go on stage and everyone is ready for you and you're gonna, you just show up in the right way.

Like, at least what terrifies me. So I gave a probably the best talk I have ever given in my life and I'm afraid that that was the peak. So I went to a conference and I gave a talk that was just fucking spectacular. Like I've never done it that good. Crushed. Crushed.

And then so the first thing that happened is people were like, can you come back next year? Oh, I see. And so, you know, I was talking to my wife. And so she was like, yeah, of course he can come back next year. And then I was trying to convey to her that like I'm terrified because I think that like everything that I showed up and no one expected anything. Right. And I knocked it out of the park.

Oh, I see, I see. And so now the problem is like people have expectations. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And people sometimes don't realize like how terrifying expectations are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Because everyone around you is looking at, you know, they're like, I've seen you do this a thousand times.

Like, it's totally fine. Like, you're going to do fine. Like, it'll be fine. Yeah. But to be the one who has to produce that, right? Like, that's, it's fine for other people to recognize the pattern of your success and say you've done this 99 times. Of course you can do it the thousandth time.

But when you're the one who has to show up the thousandth time and you know how close disaster was, each one of those 999 times, which no one sees, right? They just see the finished product. They don't see the blood, sweat, and tears that went into it. And that's scary. Yeah. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. But you'll be fine. You're going to kill it. So I think actually the solution that I've been, that I advocate for, what? What's up? No, no, no. No, why'd you laugh so much? Because you just can't give him advice. he's giving you advice. Of course he can.

Oh, you can give you the other. I thought it was, okay. What is going on with you, dude? Yeah, yeah, I'm wise as well. Okay. No, I didn't see it as advice, but I mean, I think everyone. But I mean, it wasn't even advice.

He just said, you're, just something to say. I think, I think he was trying to be reassuring. I would call that reassurance. Like, you're going to kill it. Like, I don't. It's kind of like my gay comment, right? Yeah, yeah, right now. So he's like, so Bobby's taking care of me now.

Yeah, he's taking care of. Yeah. There's this term when I was a competitive swimmer. I swam most of my life and I spent for the Philippine national team and up to D1 in college. And my favorite term we used to use was outside smoker. And when I was a favorite to win the race, I, if I was in lane four, which is where they put the fastest-seeded swimmer, I never swam my best race. But if for some reason I was in lane one or lane eight and not expected to win, I always, always swam my best times, like unanimously throughout like my 15 years as a swimmer.

If you put me on the outside lanes with zero expectation, I spend my personal... Oh, so the people go on the outside lanes? I didn't know that. That's what they call the outside smokers. Oh. Because, again, it was like when... Because, you know, like, I had a lot of trauma around, like, my parents, like, pushing me to be, like, the best. But if you put me on those outside lanes, you knew...

I just knew I was... I was free. I was free to just execute and swim. Just swim, right? Yeah. And it felt so good. Those are my favorite, like, I don't have a lot of positive memories as an athlete, but being on the outside lanes was like my favorite memory.

And that's when you do the best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? When there was lower expectations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. So you never hit the ball when it was high expectations? I mean, I did, right?

I would win. But in terms of posting my personal best or hitting, like, I remember, like, one of the last meets I did right before I got recruited to swim for a division one. I was just coming off just a really tough year of not training. My dad was dying. A lot of things were happening in my life. So there was just a lot of pressure to be like, I need this scholarship. I need this.

We didn't have any money. This is the only way to get to college is if I swam fast enough. And I remember that race, it was an international waste. It was a cue meet in Long Beach. And it just so happened that because it was an. international meet. You had a lot of Olympians there. And I just wasn't the fastest seeded swimmer. So I swam in lane one and I shaved four seconds off my personal best, got my senior cut and got recruited like literally the next week to Division I was like. It was so freeing to be so like from

the beginning to the end. I was like, all I have to do is swim. I am literally nobody in this lineup. There's so much better than me that there's no expectation. And it was like so, yeah, it was amazing. So. What were you saying, Ken? No, like, well, I was just saying because I'm like, like, low in comedy. So it's like when you have big names, like Bobby and Santino and all these guys, and you have to be on those lineups, you do feel like there's a lot, there's like not that much expectation.

But then you also feel like, oh, I really got to prove myself, but not in the way that you might feel because you have people in the audience that are there to see you. I think but it's weird I don't really care as much too which is I think I don't know what that is

as you get older you're just like I don't really care what they think really you know I cared so much in the first 20 years of me doing it but now it's just like I don't really if I have a really bad set

it's not as devastating to me you know so it's like it's time and I think once you get to like a certain level you're just kind of like, okay, you know, I'm not going to fucking beat myself up over something that's going to, you're going to be doing it for the rest of your life. Think of that. And also the things that like, I don't remember, I've done thousands and thousands. I don't remember any of them. I don't remember any of the reactions of people come to me like, hey, you know, I was there, Boko Ritone, 92, 2002, you know, second show. I'm like, I don't remember that. I was in Boko Ritone. The first time you said that It was the first time I ever said that Boko Roton?

Yeah, yeah Is that how you pronounced? I've never heard of it. What do you mean? Boko Roton! Yeah. Florida! Yeah.

Hey! I did the Italian way, you know? But anyway, sorry. But you have notes? Oh, I have so many questions. Go ahead. I haven't even like... But I feel as though it would make us hard pivot

in a different direction. Well, there's other things, but go ahead. Okay, so we're going to hard pivot from your special because I have so many questions that might be rooted. Let me ask this, Dr. Kay, are you having a good time? What do you think? I think you're great. This is so much fun.

I think it's great. I'm having a good time. Yeah, I'm most worried about you. No, because you're the one who unfortunately gets, you know, you've become the villain. People have villainized you a little bit. I'm serious. Like, so I'm, I'm going to try my best to help you feel more comfortable. Oh, yeah.

And now that I pointed out, now you're even more uncomfortable, right? Because you were, but you felt you, did you feel being villainized a little bit? Be honest, be honest. Villanized, sure. Right, so I know it's a strong word, but like we got to take care of her. Okay, she's a good guy. She's part of the team. Yeah, yeah.

Can't leave her behind. Yeah. Are we ready to pivot? Yeah, go ahead. Okay, so some of these questions might be rooted in. Resentment from 10 years of a relationship. Yeah. But my first question is,

Whoa, dude. Since, you know, you have a lot of background with gamers in general. Yeah. How do you approach someone who doesn't see their gaming as a problem? So can I ask you a question? Yeah. Did you think, so when y'all were together, Bobby was gaming a lot? I would say 16 hours a day.

And you thought it was a problem? I'm codependent. I want to be very clear on this. Okay. Because I tried to be the cool girl and pretend that it wasn't a problem for so long because I was convinced that my assessment of him was he needed this to either stem or escape or soothe himself. So I convinced myself for the first couple years that this is just what this man needs to get by. And but after that, there was an awakening of, oh, I've completely abandoned my own needs because I've just let him roam free with this thing that he does for so much of our life together. And so, yeah.

And then what did you do? I tried to address it, but I feel like I addressed it a little bit too late and in a way that wasn't effective because I sounded like a nag. Okay, so how did you address it? Nag. Nag. Nag means what, though? It was like, I need, we need to be doing things outside of this. Can we go do this?

Can we, you know, can you stop? Can you put that down? And it was just like constant. And how many times, like a day, every day? No, or that I would just shut down. Okay. And then, and wait for him to notice that I was, it's been six days. Okay, so he's, yeah.

So you were encouraging him to change his behavior. I mean, Skyrim came out. What am I going to do? So immersive. It's so immersed. It's the one that came out. Bobby, which time? Because Skyrim keeps coming out.

I mean, the original the first time it came out. It was like, I'm a Bethesda fan. I was like, it's coming out? What am I going to do? You want to cuddle? No, I'm playing. I'm kind of. Come on, guy.

Ooh. Ooh. I'm an overunderstander and I understand like what he went through as a kid. So in my head when he would talk about Red Dead Redemption was coming out an X amount of days, I was like, Oh, he needs this, right? So then I felt guilt for even trying to like pry him away from this thing he was so excited about.

And then so I would go back and forth between being really angry and being like, you can't, can you just shut it down to being like, oh, fuck, I'm just going to pretend that, you know. Okay. So, but what can you shut it down would not work? It would not work. Right? So then when that wouldn't work, then I would. Yeah. And then you're just like, well, this is not working.

Yeah. I guess I just have to take care of my own needs. handle it myself, he's going to do what the fuck he's going to do. And then the volcano of getting frustrated with him because you're in a relationship with a man who's playing Skyrim for 16 hours a day and you have social needs, sexual needs, whatever, right? Emotional needs. And then you're like, hey, can we hang out sometime?

And then he's like. Yeah. And it was also layered by the fact that once the video game was shut off, it was instead of connecting with me, then he would go straight to porn and jerk off. and go to bed. Okay. Here we go. So, there we go.

The train again. Okay, this is great. The train of doom. Okay, no, no, no, this is, this is, this is. It goes nowhere. Sorry, I told you was a hard case. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a circle, circle, circle of it in. Bobby?

By the way, I've, like, we've reconciled. I forgive them. Yeah, you like to bring up old stuff. Listen, we're not together anymore. I know, I know. I know. You're no longer than the way, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're off the hook. I'm the villain. I'm the villain. Yeah, you're so defensive. Yeah, yeah. Right? Like, like, bro, bro. Go offensive.

Bro. So, so let's just, I'm with you. Hey, guy. No, no, no. I'm with you. You were together with the cat stuff, man. I still, I'm, I'm, so, listen, listen. What is going on here?

How did I become the villain? What's, no, what's, no, but you, she villainized you. She's villainized me. I know, but that makes you the villain. He's a villainized you guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's understand. Okay, dude.

Wait, by the way, you're free to villainize me back. I'm, it's a fair game. Okay. She's bringing up old shit guy? No, no, no, I know. I know. Yeah, yeah. So, step number one.

No, step number one, she's still the villain. No, what? Yeah, yeah. Well, wait, just as soon as, so she'll, she'll become the villain soon enough. On her own. On her own. Because now, now what's happening is y'all two are fighting. I'm in the middle right now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not fighting. And then if I ever take a step back, she's going to feel so fucking uncomfortable that she's going to have to step in and call something that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got your back. I also have your back. So just because we're, so she,

so you were fine with being a degenerate 16 hour gamer, but when your athlete swimming girlfriend, complains because you're jerking off instead of having sex with her, that is like when you're like, no, right? Like you see what I mean? Okay. But, but I still have your back. Okay, but calling you out and having your back are not mutually exclusive.

Oh. I like that. Yeah, you like that. Right. So what we're going to do is we're going to, we're going to help you out. I don't need, I already addressed it. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, I don't do that anymore.

Okay. Yeah. It was one of those things where it's like I, it ruined my relationship with Kalila. And in this new relationship, I don't do it anymore. There's so much there, man. So, so it's growth for you. Oh, yeah, yeah. Right?

But like, here's what's annoying for Kalila. She's got a man. She's got a base. now. Great. She moved on. Great. Better horizons.

Great. If only that worked. So I think the real tragedy here is that both you all have moved on and that's like healthy and great and good for you. Yeah. And also for 10 years, I don't know if it was 10 years, right? She was living with this. So that's a lot of emotional energy.

It's a lot of like rejection that builds up. It wasn't the full 10 years. Okay. Okay. Whatever. The last five. Okay. Good.

Right. So do you feel, do you feel it, right? So like like when I make a. mistake like it needs to be corrected, which is good. Yeah. But you feel like you're signaling us to us really hard. I'm not that guy anymore. And I put in the work. Sometimes I slip. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Right?

Week and a half we'll go by. I was like, I'll just jerk off tonight. Whatever. But I don't do it every night. So now I'm going to pivot earlier, we're like, okay, we're going to talk about the book. And I was like, why now is the time to talk about the book. Yeah, yeah. We're a good segue. So this is actually why I wrote a book. No, I should. But this is why I wrote the book. So I think that, so the book, How to Raise a Healthy Gamer. Boom. This is why I wrote it.

Yeah. Because people are having this problem and they literally do not know what to do. Okay. Right. So what people try to do is they try to change the behavior. Like, so you start to nag and then you get exactly into the position. Kalila, I have heard your story a thousand times. Yeah.

Of like you're trying to get him to change and you're like, you nag, but that doesn't work. And then you kind of like ease off and that doesn't work. And then the other thing with it, which we didn't talk about is sometimes the nagging works, right? Like sometimes with a lot of effort, you can get him to stop for like a day or two. Yeah. But then the problem is like on a Saturday night, he's fine. And then on Sunday, maybe he's on his best behavior because you're threatening to break up with him or whatever. And then like Monday, like the moment that you stop nagging him, then it comes back.

And then the really bad thing is like, you know, you can get kind of get him to stop. but then you don't like the person you become. I hated the person I became. Like I felt like very much like a brute overlord. Right. So this is where, you know, this is this is what the book is good at. So the book is there to teach communication skills that I think absolutely, I mean, it's designed to help you have your kids develop a healthy relationship with technology.

So you can set good technology habits and things like that. But I think this is where it teaches. of the most fundamental communication skills. So I think the way that you want to start is by asking Bobby. Right? So here's a lesson I've learned doing addiction psychiatry for a while. You can't be sober for somebody else. Like you can try.

I know. You know, you just can't do it. So the biggest problem here is as long as you are trying to get him to stop and he is not interested in stopping, there's no way to win. Right. So I think the first question is like, Bobby, how do you feel about your gaming?

what's it like to play Skyrim for 16 hours a day? You know, like, I know Skyrim is a great game. Like, I've played Skyrim. I think it's awesome. What's up? You know? And Skyrim is great. I played Moro Wind.

I played Oblivion. Ooh. Oh, deep-up. Deep-up. I played arena. I played Daggerfall. What the fuck I do? What's up?

Dude, Bethesda all day, every day, huh? Yeah. Well, used to be Bethesda all day every day. Nowadays. He doesn't play fallout. So you didn't play Starfield? Did not touch Starfield. Play New Vegas.

Played Fallout 3. Haven't tried to fallout 4. I'm circling around, though, maybe. Ball out four is great. We'll see. Speaking of expectations to live up to, I think this is the problem with Elder Scroll 6 is like they just have such huge expectations. That's why they haven't come out.

I know. That's why they just read. Anyway, but getting back to, I had a problem in gaming addiction too. That's tough. So I think just asking him, you know, what's going on? Like, what's going on with this? Like, how do you feel about this? So you want to start with like open-ended questions?

and as long as he views you as the enemy, he's going to get defensive. And we're even seeing like an echo of that come out in this conversation, even though y'all have moved on, right? But you see like a little bit of the resentment comes out, a little bit of the defensiveness comes out. And you all have absolutely moved on. I'm not trying to demonize it. No, you're right.

I'm sweating. Like even just asking that question. Right. Like it throws me back in this scenario of like. Exactly. So that's what happened. We get thrown back. Yeah.

We get thrown back. Right. And Bobby is signaling to us, and it's important to acknowledge that, right? He's not the person he used to be. And you guys have, he has grown, y'all have moved on. He's in a new relationship now. He's been sober for four years, right? Four years.

Sure, sure have. And so there's a lot there to be proud of, and we'll get to that later. There's a lot, a lot, a lot of lot to be proud of, you know? Yeah. Are you on the verge of tears? No. Okay. I'm just like going through something right.

right now, man. Yeah, what are you going through? Rage. Okay. What are you angry about? That's all such a scenario. What? It's like, you know, she brought up old stuff, man. Yeah.

And it's old, I ruined our relationship. I accept that. You know, I changed my behavior too late after. Okay. And now we're friends and I love her, right? But it's like, you know, I, um, Now, the video game thing, I've addressed the porn. The video game thing is, it's a problem.

Still a problem. But, yeah, I, yeah, anyway. Well, I will get back to the rage in a second. I'm serious. Self the rage. Yeah, right? So I think. Got it.

Sheld? I'm good. I'm good, dude. Did you fart? What is it with gay fart? What is it with you today, dude? Gay farder. Simplistic comedy today, huh?

See, now you all have to be careful because I'm teaching you all how to observe interactions, right? So now he's doing the work that I didn't. Now he knows. Now he knows. Now I know what you're doing. Yeah. But we'll get to the rage. Okay.

But let's answer your question, because I think that's a huge problem that people struggle with. So if you have a partner who has a behavior that is harmful, what do you do? you ask open-ended non-judgmental questions because he knows like so he's got rage right but he's saying he's moved is beautiful that you brought up the rage um because what the rage tells me is that y'all have moved on but that rage is still there so where is that rage coming from that rage is coming from his mind when he was stuck in it like he knows i've got a smoking hot girlfriend and like she wants to hang out with me and i i'm choosing to watch born like Like, there's self-loathing, right?

I don't know. I mean, there's some anger that probably got shifted to you, but I think most of the rage is towards himself. And so it's okay, get going. Yeah, thanks. Okay. So I think the key thing there is that we want to use that in a healthy way, right? So his own frustration with himself can come out, but not if you're on the attack. Yeah.

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So I think just asking questions about like, hey, like, you know, what's it like when we're, you know, what's going on with you? What are you experiencing? How do you feel about... I feel like I should have done that way sooner. But I think that because I waited too long to even address it, it had already simmered into a place where I couldn't access the open-ended questions. It was more like, fuck you, you know, like... Yeah. Too late.

Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Okay, yeah, it, it, you don't understand that. You don't, you don't fully understand, right? It's just like, she's also very difficult. All right, so it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, what I'm talking about it? What I'm trying to say right now is this, okay? I'll be walking the dog. I'll be walking the dogs outside, right?

Yeah. And I'm like, okay, they did it. She's like, no, they haven't done it. You got to stay out there for 30 more minutes. Like she had this kind of, did it. They went through the bathroom or the dogs. Because we used to live in an apartment building. I used to look up.

Yeah. And she'd be like, no, no, no, no, no, you know what I mean, another 30 minutes. She's very controlling in that way, you know what I mean? And very nitpicky, too. It's like, why do you do this? Why do you do that? Why is this happening? You know, why is your foot so itchy?

You know what I mean? And like, on and on and on. The way that I read it is more like he didn't want to ever be inconvenience to do anything outside to play video game. So even if it was like requiring, like, we had three dogs and I walked them 90% of the day. So the 30 minutes that I asked for him to walk the day. dogs at night, it was such a big inconvenience that it became in a fight because it was cutting into his game time. And so it was like every, every minor thing that needed to be done

was a huge. You're not like that. You're like that. I don't want to get it. I want to get too deep. No, I have my own deep. I have issues. Yeah, I have a lot of anxiety. Good. I'm glad. OCD. I, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, for sure. I'm not, I, I'm not saying I'm not, I'm so faulty. There's so fucked up things. So many things. Yeah. So many. And we can talk about that. I don't want to. I don't want to. Because what we have now is good. I think we're, I think we're going to the past. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I'm, this is something of interest to me just because you aren't the only person who has a video game addiction. I see it in my family. I wrote a whole book about it. I know. That's why I see it in my young nephew. How to raise a healthy gamer. Okay. And I have,

I have a son now. So these are the things that I kind of want to learn how to like mitigate like early on. because he is going to have some relationship with tech, right? No matter if we're the most outdoorsy family ever, he is going to eventually stumble upon it. But I was to provide it. We're not even talking about it. I don't care. I provided.

Okay, so let's let's go to Philippines. Everybody gets to go. Hawaii, you know what I provide. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. This is really good. I hope people who are listening to this understand what's going on. Yeah. To me, it's clear as day.

Is it clear to this day to y'all right? Everyone's clear. Everyone's day. So you feel. I don't know what's going on. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Let's call back. Oh. Let's be clear about what happened. Okay. I missed this. I stopped paying attention. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Okay. So she asked a generic question, right? She asked, how do you get someone who struggles with tech addiction? What do you, what should you say to them? And then I didn't let her get away with it. I asked her, no, no. I asked her what happened in your life. So I'm the one that's what, what, what happened in your life. So I'm the one that put y'all's relationship on the table. So I appreciate the fist bump, but this is, this is she tried to, she tried to remove you from the story. And then I asked her to put it back in. Yeah. So he's right. Right. Right. So, so, so, and I think that's, the reason I did that is because like asking like, oh, how do you talk to someone? Here's five.

tips to get your partner, stop playing video. That's not what works. What works is like understanding the dynamics, understanding the rage, understanding the co-dependency, understanding that even though we're done talking about it, and she admits that she's got issues, and you respond with, I paid the fucking bills, right? So like this, this rage, this rage that you have is like, it's buried deep, right? And y'all have grown, and now you're on the verge of tears, are you? Oh, no, I'm not, I'm not.

So, so like, but maybe, maybe. There's, there's, maybe. Really? You know, so there's. No, I think that I'm just more like, I, I, I, you know, because we really have tried so hard to depart from, like, that era of our lives. Absolutely. That, like, when you put it back on the table, it becomes very real in my body again.

Yeah. So, but, but that's, that's what I. Body keeps a score. It does keep the score. Yeah. It does keep the score. It's another book. Yeah.

Best Lavander Colk, fantastic. So, but I mean, I think it, you know, pardon, like, pardon me for bringing it up again. But I think this is the, this is actually like, you know, asking a sterile question of, like, what do you say? And just say this does not even begin to capture the emotional difficulty of struggling with addiction, right? And there's, like, this other element here of, like, when she can't control one part of your behavior, she is going to displace that frustration and make sure you walk the dog for 30 fucking minutes, whether it's gone or not. Right, right, right, right.

This is something that I see a lot. Frequently, I mean, it's not all, the things are not always gendered this way, but frequently I see this in female partners of men who have substance use problems or things like that. It's like, you're going to draw your line in the sand. Yeah. Right? Because you may not be able to win on this.

front. Yeah. But when it comes to this front, like, I'm going to draw my line in the sand. And I don't care whether they've gone. If they've pissed, they've shit. 30 minutes to 30 minutes. You can't even give up 30 minutes of Skyrim. There's so much anger into that.

And then that comes across as controlling, because in a sense it is. But it's the emotional energy behind it. And so another thing we talk about in the book is like how to get to the emotional energy underneath what is fueling the interaction. Because when you ask me the question, what do you say? it's almost like it kind of doesn't matter. Yeah. What matters is you get to the emotional energy that is driving the behavior.

And once that, it literally, once it comes to the surface, people are just more willing to be flexible. They're more willing to hear you out. They feel more understood. I know this is like actually kind of a tricky situation here that we're in that right now. I don't know if it feels that way to y'all. But I mean, it is. And so, so, you know, but like as I'm calling attention.

to like the various emotions that people are feeling, it becomes uncomfortable. But like we got to, we got to like let it out. And yeah. And then it's tense for a while. Like it was like you guys were like, we had an insight into your life from like five years ago or 10 years ago or whatever. We saw, we saw just a glimpse of what would happen in your kitchen or in your bedroom or whatever when he's walking in with the dogs and you're standing there at the doorway and you're like, it hasn't been 30 minutes. Like we just saw a glimpse of that. And it, It's like ugly, and I don't mean that in a bad way, but like this is what human beings are, right?

When we're frustrated with each other and we're not happy and like you hate the person he's turning you into. That is such a huge theme. And then when COVID happened, it was like winning the lottery. It was just like it gave me kind of an excuse to play, remember? That little closet downstairs or whatever, that little. Yeah, I think that was about.

That was the end. That was the beginning of the end, even though we didn't know it at that time. Because then it was, he didn't have to go on the road. And he didn't, it was like on full display his addiction. And I had nowhere to run because it's like, where could I even? Yeah. We were in the confines of our home.

And in the beginning, we were like, oh, well, in my fantasy land, I was like, oh, we get to hang out at home as a family. I was cooking meals. Like, and it, that bubble burst so fast when I realized, oh, I get to see him practice his addiction in broad daylight. every single day and I have nowhere to go. And so I, we didn't realize it at that time, but we didn't nip it in the bud either. And I became a person who was just, what I, the person I didn't want to be was sweeping everything under the rug and I became

her. I was just like, okay, let's just keep excusing it. And then it bubbled over into just the worst shit. So what do you all think he's going through right now? I'm serious. It's not. Right. Presently in his life or in the moment?

No, no. No, this moment. He's rocking back and forth. I feel fine. I'm probably similar to what I'm feeling, which is like, fuck, we both saw this problem and, like, we knew it was there, but, like, we couldn't fix it. I was too lost in my own rage, too, and, like, feeling like I was the most undesired person on Earth. That's truly how I felt.

I was like, I might as well be, like, a 500-pound, like, man at this point. Like, he would treat me the same. I think what he's feeling is probably same as me where it's like we had a chance to fix it because we knew what was wrong but we didn't we were stuck in our own fucking loops in our head Cat please Call somebody gay right now

Whatever your folksie Ford I'm sorry Can you hear yourself? Yeah yeah but also I don't want to speak for you If you're what I think I get something different from him Do you want to speak or you want me to speak Speak, please.

Okay. I think he carries, so you think he's feeling what you're feeling? I don't think so. So I think there's a lot more I in what he's feeling and there's a lot more we in what you're feeling. That's the simplest way I put it. I think he blames himself. Yeah. I think he, like, here's what.

Yeah, just self-loat. May it interject, doctor? Yeah. Thank you. I. Welcome. God, I love you, man. Is love better or not?

It's getting there. Yeah, getting there. We're getting there. We're getting there. How long, when do we get there? We'll let you. We'll be getting there. It takes some time.

Yeah, 45 minutes you were like getting there. We're getting there. Okay, I don't think we're going to get there. Are we getting there? We're never going to get there. Yeah. Don't doubt yourself. I was kidding.

Yeah, yeah. So it's glaring that addiction, the video game addiction. It's, you know, as problematic here's the thing here's the difference between drugs and alcohol because I've been sober for four years you know

it becomes more drugs and alcohol it affects people around you fast you know I mean it affects work fast you know people get really concerned

because you're dealing with your health you're dealing with you know it's a bigger behavior that people, it's glaring, you know, and video games is a subtle addiction in many ways, right? It's just like, it's just so easy to justify, like, you know, I did, I did stand up, you know, I hung out with my friend, and I'm just going to play for eight hours, whatever. It's, you know, it seems, but the, the reasons why I am doing it is what's glaring. It's just, I just don't want to feel.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's, it's definitely has replaced my drugs and alcohol addiction, because even when we were dating back then, And she, I was sober then too. So I, you know, I had big chunks of sobriety in my life and I would relapse. My point being is it's always been a substitution for this addiction not to feel or be in the moment or, you know, whatever. So it's like, you know, it's a real glaring thing. Even now when I'm doing it now, it's like I should be writing a new hour, but I'm not.

I'm just playing a game that I played a thousand times, like Starfield, I just went back because Crimson Deserts, coming out March 19th, and I sat out yet. You know what I mean? So I'm just killing time going to an old game until Crimson, I hope Crimson Desert is good. Another narrative also. So where are we, where are we going? Are we going to question number two?

Yes. Are we going to rage? Let's let's, let's, what's, I also am curious about what you feel that makes you, that what you're trying to run away from on the inside. What do you mean? Right, so you mentioned a couple of times that like when we play video games or use substances,

like you're just trying to get away from like something on the inside? I just don't feel, you know, I feel, I think, um, I think I've, I have the right kind of concoction of things now. I, I'm going to more A.A. meetings and, you know, I went to my sponsor's house a couple of weeks ago and we started working the steps again. And then along with this new, these new medications and stuff, I think that I'm, um,

getting the right good place balance you know I wish that I addressed some of the stuff when we were together you know it would have helped I think a lot

you know but let's get to question too but Bob you should be careful after this podcast okay what do you mean so like make sure that you know if there's a chance that we're waking something for real

like this is like clinical for second just you know if you start to feel like you there's a there is a non-zero chance that these conversations will increase your risk of relapse. Oh, no, no, I'm fine.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't give a fuck. But, okay. Good, good, good, good, good, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I know we're talking about stuff, but, you know, we want everyone to be. I'm fine, totally fine.

Okay. It's entertainment. Okay, good. Yeah, yeah. What's second question? Oh, God. Yeah. You doing okay?

Oh, yeah, good, good things. Yeah, she's. Have you been muzzled? Huh? Do you feel muzzled? No, no, no, no. Just observing. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what's going on with you right now? How are you feeling? Oh, I feel pretty good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I've been thinking a lot about the ego a lot.

Because in this profession, you compare yourself. Yep. And sometimes that can be debilitating towards creativity. So just trying to be more present and more just like embracing who you are, right? Because there's not another person like you. Absolutely. So. I want to say something

I observed the other night. Okay. Okay. This is a good thing. I'm not saying something again. I get scared. Yeah, yeah. You like, made a full body clench.

I know, your whole body, like. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you had your notebook or whatever. You're running around, right? And you're like, you're hosting huge shows. Like, she's now hosting, like, you know what I mean? Jay Leno's on.

I mean, all these big names and she's, right? I mean, these huge shows, and she's, She's very beloved at the comedy store. And I can see you running around and your excitement and you're in this big dream state. And I envy it. I wish, I remember that. I remember like in that period where anything can happen, right?

You don't know. But you can see yourself rise. You feel the rise, right? Yeah. And then you feel the other people around you, resent you? Yes. Yeah, but it's still like, no, I could feel it.

I can sense it on your behalf. You know what I mean? Like the eyes. You know what I mean? Especially from the ladies. You know what I mean? But the excitement, you're in a really exciting space. But it's scary.

But it's, I'm telling you right now, you'll never get that again. Really feel this. It's so fun. That anything can happen. Because when it does happen, it's a letdown, baby. my special. So what I'm saying is that this feeling that you have

is everything. This is as good as it's going to get. Bobby, can I do something real quick? Can I whisper? You can do whatever you want? I'm going to whisper a question in your ear. Oh, I love. I want you to ask her.

Why can you ask her? I want you to ask it. Let's make noise. Do do do do. Okay. Ask that question. I know what. Can I do it on my own time, guy?

Okay. on my own time. I'm sorry, I love you. What's scary about it? You don't, there's just more pressure, more eyes on you, and I don't want to fail. I feel tired from like just feeling like, yeah, you're just, I feel there is, I know you have like an insane amount of pressure on you constantly,

but I feel like there's like the first. first time there's like a few eyes on me and I feel just scared to mess it up or you know being compared to or it's I know we have to be strong and be like oh yeah I don't care what people are saying about you but it just like it does when you hear people talking about you or this and that that can be scary yeah I see you that was good right so so I think what you didn't you didn't what? I'll tell you why I did that. Okay.

It's because I can, we can go on and on about it. Yeah. I had so many other things I wanted to say, you know what I mean, about it, but I didn't want to. So instead, you mean, it's like, you know, let's move on, like, not move on, but I don't know. Oh, okay, okay, okay, this is huge. Okay.

So first of all, how what the fuck? It's huge, dude. Okay. Watch this, watch this. Watch this. It better be huge. Okay, do you guys, so, so, so, so, so. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So, okay, I'm going to try to stitch this together. So first thing is, Bobby is telling you to cherish it. He misses it. It's gone for him, right? This is like you only get to do this once, like popping your cherry. Yeah. Okay.

And next thing is, he knows, right? He knows how scary it is. He's like the eyes are on you, especially the women. So he knows how scary it is. He's trying to be reassuring. And then when he asks you, when I tell him you to ask you about the scaredness, because he's reassuring you. That doesn't work, though.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, it just doesn't, like, so here's another thing that you guys can learn in the book. Reassuring people doesn't fucking work. Telling them it is going to be okay where you are, where you are. That's interesting, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, not everybody gets to be you. Mm-hmm. Like, you are exceptional.

What? Right? Like, you said, hey, there's people who are successful. Yeah. They're not the ones who are talented. They're the ones who fucking show up when they need to, and that is something that I have. I'm not done. Okay, right?

So, so, and she's coming up. You see the talent in her, but you know what it's like to be afraid. And then here's the huge thing. When she talks about being scared, Bobby's response is flat. Now, we can think of him as an asshole. We should not think of him as an asshole, because that is the way he responds to his own scaredness. This is why he's tortured on the inside Because when he hurts,

Why is he fucking addicted to anything under the planet? Poly substance use. This is not, so sometimes when we have addictions, We are addicted to a particular thing Because we've got this fucking transporter, like the gabap transporter. When we have a change in our gabapur transporter, we get addicted to benzos, like Xanax.

We get addicted to alcohol. Some people get addicted to everything. Yeah. video games, drugs of choice, right? And these are the people who, the way that they respond to themselves, he can't, he doesn't know how to sit with your scaredness. He literally doesn't know. And he has learned, he has been terrified for so long that he has learned how to just like

fucking blank, right? And that's what's so hard. Does that make sense? Yes. Totally. So it's huge, huge. Yeah, yeah. But I feel like by her saying that, you know what I mean, I was, she was kind of negating of what I was saying before almost.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Right. Like I was like here's the thing is it's like, I don't know much about horse races. Right. But it's like a derby? Like horse derby? Like a Kentucky Derby horse race?

When they go in a circle, man. Like sea biscuit. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know where you gamble. Let it ride. You know, let a ride, you know? Richard Dreyf's movie. You ever see it? For reference for everyone. Yeah. Horses going in a circle.

Right. Right. And you're a horse breeder, right? And you know what horse, like, you don't just go, hey, that guy. That's going to be my guy. You have to watch him do things, right? Okay. As a calf, it's a calf.

And as it gets older, you just know. And also their parents are important, right? But you just know that it's a winner. Okay. It's got potential to be a winner when you're a horse breeder, correct? Yeah. Can anyone agree with me? Yes.

All right. And so when I was saying to her is that she's already, she's, you know, I don't refer you to it as a horse, but I'm just saying that. Maybe choose something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's a prize horse. Yeah, she's a prize horse. Breeding quality. Right.

So I was, yeah, she's brought, you're good bread. Good breeding. I mean, anyway, anyway. Good measure. Pategory. Pedigree. Pedigree. Good pedigree.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good jeans, good jeans. You know. You got good jeans. You got good jeans. What I'm saying is, forget it. Let's move on. Next question.

No, but I think, too, what you're saying, too, how that doesn't necessarily work when someone says, hey, I'm scared. And then you say, but you're so talented because when he's in a bad way and he's like, hey, I'm really scared. And I'm like, Bobby, you're beloved. You're X, Y, and Z. He doesn't take it either. Yeah, because the scaredness, here's the thing.

The scaredness. never goes away. I'm still scared. But it can. But it won't. That's huge. And that's the deal. I don't, I don't agree. Boom. Agree to disagree. I don't think he wants to agree at all.

Oh, really? Yeah. No, so I mean, I think, so the scaredness, just because it hasn't gone away. Yeah. It makes perfect sense for you to think it won't go away, right? Because it's never gone away. But, I mean, my job. is making it go away. That's what I do for people. Right. And so I think it's doable. But once again, me reassuring you that it's doable ain't gonna work. Yeah. Right? So instead, what I should do is, is, and I get what you're saying about, you know, you're trying to protect her. You're trying to, you remember what it was like to be scared in that way, and you care about her. I do. Right? And so you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're,

like, hey, person who is coming after me, not like, as in next, not like, you know, like, be assured, like you will get there. He sees talent in you. He sees work ethic in you. He sees bright points. And he remembers how, how frightening it was. And he wants to try to take that away from you. Like, he's trying to protect you from that. I was just mentioning that, like, she's in an exciting time in her life. That's all I was saying. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think we're, like, too, too much mountain out of a molehill? That's exactly it. I don't know how to say that.

Too mountain of the roll wall. You know what he said? It's too fast. Yeah. Yeah. Too much mountain of a molehill? Yeah. Wow, that's a good one.

Yeah. No, you're killing it. And I love you. In fact, I'd like you to have you back here. I'd like you to have you back here. I would love you to have you back. I don't know if he wants to come back. Yeah.

I would love to be back. Every year you've got to come back here. I'm not ready to go. Yeah, yeah. I really have. learned a lot from you. Yeah. One question.

Let's get one more. No, we're not done. I'm just saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go through some questions. Go ahead. I guess this is kind of already in that same vein because it's another kind of addiction. But I wanted to ask you what happens to the brain when someone consumes porn regularly?

And what is the difference between a young brain, like a teenager, having access to nonstop porn versus a. older person, 50s, coming across all of a sudden, you know, 8K porn, like for the first time in their lives they have access to that. Like, how does, how do those two brains? What are you talking about, Willis? What are you talking about, Willis? I'm not trying to bring you into this. Yeah, yeah. You just did. No, I didn't. You said old guy. You're not the only old guy. You're not the only 40, 50 year old on the planet. What's A K mean? What I'm saying, 4K. Oh, 4K. I've never seen A. Is there AK?

Is there 16K? Is there? Okay. I can't wait for that porn. Because when we were growing up, like just porn wasn't everywhere. So you kind of had to search and like the amount of porn that you did consume was kind of like limited or it was grainy or it was skin a max. Right. But now it's like I'm in my 40s or Bobby's in his 50s and now it's like, holy shit, we have access to all of it.

The first time I saw porn, there was a field by my house. It was just this field and all the kids knew behind this like if you lift this boulder There's a hostler magazine boulder is insane though it's like a gigantic boulder right and you would lift it right and there was one Mildewy hostler magazine it would all just jerk off in the field Not together but everyone would know that on the boulder open up what you would jerk off on whatever you know mean but you just in this field and close it and then put it underneath the bold It was like a community. That's where I was introduced.

You know what I mean? And the, you know, like it would be mildewy and wet. You know what I mean? And you'd have to, you know. Is this San Diego? No, this is in Minnesota. Minnesota. There was a field.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it was just there for years. And then I remember somebody put a new one in there and we were so excited. But that was like three years later. Who's dropped a tooth hair? Yeah, yeah.

A poor tooth. Yeah, yeah. It was a penhouse or something. Yeah. Like, oh, this is a new. you know what this is amazing but anyway that's how I was interested to board so as as technology

you know what I mean furthers it just gets more exciting you know what I mean and like the toys that I have yeah so that's basically my question this was asked about you you're just watching everything in HK um

8K I mean go ahead sorry HK actually let me just ask the first question like what does just porn access to this much porn due to like a younger brain. Okay, so let's do two questions. Yeah. One is how does porn affect the developing brain?

And second question is, how does porn affect the brain? So first thing to understand is that any time you do something to a developing brain, it gets shaped by it more. So if you, so interesting statistic, one of the highest risk factors for pornography addiction is actually pre-pubescent exposure to pornography. So it's not even about sex. Like kids don't know, they don't feel horny. They're like pre-puberty.

So you'll get like eight years. What if you were molested, though? This is a good question. What if you were molested, meaning what? Well, if you were molested and then like, and then, you know what? I think that my sex drive, I learned about sex too early because I was molested. Yeah. So that is going to have an even different effect.

Okay. I don't think that's a... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. That's... Yeah, I got uncomfortable. Yeah.

And so we have to be in halfway with what. It's not a joke. I mean, he just disclosed that he was molested. So it's like whatever, whatever you know, whatever you got to do. Okay. In order to help him feel comfortable. So... Development game.

Yeah. Yeah. So the first thing is just like, I want you all to think about the brain as like, you know, concrete that's just been laid. So whatever, you know, if you start using drugs at an early age, your brain wires with that stuff on board. So the likelihood of addiction is greater, the earlier you get exposed to. Well, I started doing drugs at 11, 12. That's when my addiction started. Alcoholism. And you were molested before that. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, you know, I mean, so it's like, I can't even believe I'm still, I'm here, to be honest with you. Yeah, it's

quite an achievement. Yeah, yeah. I'm not kidding. You know what I mean? Yeah. I took. But yeah, and then I got sober at 17, which is so, I mean, it was a miracle because it's like, you know, I found, you know, I believe, I started, I found God at 17.

Yeah. And then I, you know, if I wasn't an AA, I don't think I wouldn't stand up because I had a lot of encouragement from the community. Yeah. The sober community to go follow your dreams and stuff like that. So it's like. Let's suppose that porn was very. accessible when he was in the 80s, 70s, 80s, and a young Bobby at 1112 who had been molested.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it would have fucked me every day. Yeah, but I mean, he started using substances at like 11 or 12, right? So I think this is where like basically what, so we'll talk about the effects of being molested in a minute, but let's finish on the porn thing and then we'll come back. Yeah, just hang tight, okay? I love it. Okay.

Okay. So the key thing to understand about pornography is that what a lot of people don't understand is that it's actually about emotional regulation more than anything else. So, you know, most of the people who I work with who are addicted to pornography, people assume that there's a lot of masturbation. But for a lot of people, it's like second screen stuff. So it's like literally like patients who are like in investment banking or private equity and they're like financial modeling on Excel on like screen number one. and there's like, you know, somebody getting railed on screen number two. Yeah. And so the interesting thing, if you kind of think about it, right? So our body is designed to procreate.

And in order, if we get an opportunity to procreate, we can basically shut off everything else in order to make that happen. So if you think about, you know, the emotional effect of sex, if we're feeling anxious, like there are absolutely cases of hyposexual. desire disorder and things like that. Or like, you know, if you're really depressed, it's like hard to get aroused. But if we think about if you are able to get aroused,

what does it do to your other emotions? It basically wipes them clean. And earlier we were talking a little bit about, you know, the feeling of taking a piss. So in Sanskrit and if we talk about meditation, there's a state of temporary enlightenment called samadhi.

And so when we meditate, we're trying to get your... Yeah, yeah. So when we're trying to get to samadhi, like that's why people meditate, and once you get to samadhi, you feel amazing. What's nirvana then? Nirvana is permanent samadhi. Oh, permanent samante. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When the sadness disappears forever.

That's death? Or can you achieve that in life? In life. Yeah. You can achieve nirvana in life. Yeah, that's the only time you can achieve it. Oh, my God. That's true.

It is death of the subconscious. Or that it it, so death of the self happens can be can come and go. So another random aside, since we're talking about this for a second. So if you if you look at the, you know, I don't know if you guys have seen these like studies on psychedelics being useful for mental health. Yeah. So, so the really cool thing is you can actually ask someone what their psychedelic experience was and based on their subjective experience, you can predict whether they have an improvement in trauma or treatment refractory depression. Yeah, I got, I had a ketamine, I did ketamine therapy once and once only. And when I say, like, it was so effective compared to any, like, SSRI had,

I had been taking, like, years prior as, like, a younger person. I was shocked by how well it worked. Yeah. Yeah. So the interesting thing is when people have an ego death experience in psychedelics, if I just see like colors or even if I have something like synesthesia, that doesn't correlate with a mental health improvement. It's specifically the ego death experience. And that's why people are into the heroic dose because the heroic dose is what is most likely to have an ego death experience. And that's like a heroic dose of like macro dosing like mushrooms or...

Yeah, so the scary thing that people don't talk about, which we oftentimes don't see in the studies and they're like we can get into technicalities of that. So I have had an equal number or greater number of patients who will get PTSD from trips. Yeah. Who will develop panic disorders. Because it does have a lot of neuroplasticity. It like puts your brain into like from read only mode into like edit mode.

But depending on what kind of trip you have, it can be incredibly traumatic. It changes the way that your physiology can be wired. So it's kind of like playing with fire. Yeah, that's like that's exactly how I felt when I smoked a lot. a weed when I was younger. It almost threw me into a state of like chronic anxiety and like just unwellness. Yeah, so chronic weed is even different. So chronic weed is you get you get rebound anxiety from weed. Yeah. So it's kind of like, you know, if you drink caffeine every day and then you like don't have caffeine one day, your energy level, like then caffeine becomes your baseline.

Wow. Wow, wow, wow, well, yeah. So I see that a lot with weed. So people will get chronic anxiety. The worst version of this is something called cannabis hyper-emesis syndrome. It's like vomiting? What is that? It's when people vomiting. Yeah, what? Yeah, I got that on a pot brownie. I had too much of a pot brownie.

Yeah, so when people use it chronically, they can be left in a state where they're nauseous and vomiting, like, all the time. It's really bad. What about the freeze? The froze. That was probably. That's not hyperamesis. Oh, that's not. Okay.

I used to take weed. I used to freeze. Yeah, he used to take like a thousand. of edibles when he relapsed and he couldn't tell if he was moving or going or staying still or going. So he would just like freeze like this and then I'd see like a silhouette of him in the dark

and I'd be really freaked out. I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, where am I going? Am I moving? And he would just stay stuck there. And then I would get so shivery. And you'd be like ice. Yeah, ice.

And they didn't have to carry me to a bed. And they'd roll me up in a blanket. Like a burrito, right? and then I'd have to cool down. Yeah, that's scary, man. Yeah. Don't do drugs, kids. It's fun, it's fun, too, though, you know what I mean?

Was it enjoyable? No, it was painful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, because there's absolutely the sense of time dilation with marijuana. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, back, but I like what you said about pouring fresh concrete with porn. Yeah, so with porn, like, you know, the earlier you use it, the earlier you get exposed to it, the worse it is.

You know, there's a really scary stat. So non-consensual choking has really skyrocketed in college. 51% of women experienced non-consensual choking. 60 plus percent. You always go, is this okay? Is this okay?

No, no. But Bobby, Bobby, this is exactly the problem, right? So when you were watching your hustler mag under the boulder, that wasn't part of it, right? So now actually what's... No, I used to... Is it... But that's your own erotic asphyxiation.

I would joke with it. There's all kinds of... So what I love about this, and I would love to come back, is there's so much fascinating physiology around autoerotic asphyxiation. I recently saw a really cool study... Autorotic exfixiation. Don't try that at home. I had to say that because it's...

But I saw a really cool study in a scientific journal on yoga. Yeah. This is for you. Oh, yeah. That... So there's an ancient yogic burial practice where, like, as a yogi, you bury yourself. And then when you bury yourself, you're like in this, you know, you're underground. And then you like kind of run out of oxygen.

But these are yogis who are like trained to do all kinds of crazy stuff. So what's really interesting is probably when we have like near-death experiences from like asphyxiation and stuff like that. So that has to do with really high levels of carbon dioxide in our brain. So when levels of carbon dioxide in our brain get really high, they start to malfunction. Now, if you're not, that can lead to death. So don't do that at home. No. But the really interesting thing is it's probably that high level of carbon dioxide that induces

these like near-death experiences. And so there's actually some like really esoteric yogic practices where you bury yourself and then you don't try this at home because you can die or get brain damaged very quickly. Should be done on the guidance of a guru or probably not really at all. And then what happens is they really, it's a powerful experience for inducing like essentially a psychedelic experience or a near-death experience. What do you mean bury yourself? Like a whole...

Like DMT? So DMT is a whole different ballgame. But is it like, does it kind of mimic that whole... So what's really fascinating is we know that the brain produces DMT. Yeah. But we don't know how. All we know, and I've been looking into this because I've been trying to figure out when you have like a crazy experience of meditation, like what's going on in your brain.

All we know is that it's produced from serotonin. So I think when you have all these yogic practices, you have people that are like on these very strict diets, eating like certain herbs that are found in the Himalayas, drinking like very pure water, meditating for like, you know, many hours a day, many years at a time. Like you'll have dudes that like just sitting in caves in the Himalayas

meditating for years, decades, arguably if stories would leave centuries. And then, so we don't know what's going on. But like I think that all of these strict yogic practices are absolutely altering our neurochemistry. in a profound way. Oh, wow, wow. Right?

We just don't know how because we don't do studies on those people. But going back to concrete. Yeah. So earlier you do porn, the worse it is. Porn is primarily around

emotional regulation. So, you know, we see people who are, I don't mean to, but people, people who struggle with their emotions and are prone to using substances or other things to regulate their emotions,

pornography and sex is very good at shutting down our amygdala, which is our fear center of the brain, good at shutting down our limbic system, which is where we feel. So oftentimes, like, people will relapse when they're going through something emotionally difficult. Or we'll see something where,

in early stage of substance use sobriety, tech addiction will skyrocket. So a big part of overcoming porn addiction is, just like any other addiction, is learning an alternate way to manage your emotions. So the better you get at managing your emotions, the brain needs the pornography less. But a lot of people... I think that's what's happening to me right now.

How so? Well, the more I go into, like I do some meditation, but the more I'm, like, because I'm, I'm in therapy, I'm going to more A meetings, you know what I mean? I'm being, it seems to not come up as often. And then when it does pop up, like, should I do it? I always kind of pop it like a balloon and I just kind of go to sleep or whatever. Yeah, so I think if you kind of think back to when you had problems with it, you never even have the question of should I or should I not. It's just like, I need to now.

I need to, yeah. Right? So that shows that that shows the work you've been putting in. And that's where, you know, you don't believe the sadness can go away, which is fair enough. But many people don't believe that the porn addiction can go away. Yeah. Okay. They can't imagine a scenario in which I need to can become should I.

Yeah. Wow. The non-consensual choking is really scary. Let's move on from that. Yeah, it feels weird. Oh, yeah. That happens a lot. When you, like, hook up with people now? They just, like, choke you for no reason.

Well, so the reason. That's happened to you? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's cool, but I'm like, no, uh-uh, uh-uh. If I don't broach the topic of choking first and there isn't like a disgust thing and someone just goes for that, I'm out of there. That takes me, I'm such enough fear my body will really.

Do they ask you? Like, can I do this? No, just straight. for the neck. Yeah. So you're making out and then it's like maybe a little bit of a tit and then it's to the neck. It goes tit to neck, huh? That's scary.

Titt neck is crazy. So tit? Yeah. I go Vagged, neck and then tit. That's my like routine. No, but do you mind if I ask how old you are? 34. Okay.

Yeah. Right? So I think this is what's happening is, so we're seeing a trend where over time you develop tolerance to pornography. so then you need more extreme pornography for it to suppress your emotions. Wow, this is scary. And so there's a lot of pornography

of non-consensual choking. And we're seeing a rise in sexlessness, right? So people, so in 1975, the average age for a man to get married was 23.8. For a woman was 21.1. In 2000... Let's run it off, maybe.

Sure, we can do that. In 2000... Sure, if we were to round it off, It's 31 now for men and 28 for women. Wow. Right? So it's changed a lot. We're seeing more people, probably about half of dudes between the age of 18 and 24, rounding off.

For you, dude. Yeah, for you. I have not had sex within the last year. So we're watching 18 to what? 18 to 24. Yeah, it's bad. Half of dudes. Yeah, yeah.

So they watch way more pornography. Yeah. They watch, for some reason, non-consensual choking is like a huge part of pornography now. Wow. And so since they don't have real life experience, they watch a bunch of porn, and then they, and then they think that that's what they're supposed to do. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Yes. It's crazy. And it's shocking. This is something that no one talks about, but it's like, it's insane. 51% of college age women will experience this. Wow. And you guys are like, me too.

Like we're like, what? Yeah, yeah. Like that, I had never even heard of someone doing that in, in, when I was like in college. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but now it's like, it, it blows my mind that it, it happens. It sounds like it didn't just happen to you once. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

All the time. Why don't you put a boundary up and go, hey, don't go to it. I've kind of into it. I should say that first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, but, you know, but. I like it when they choke me. Yeah.

And I always go, you know, you ask for it up front. It's weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I go, do it harder. Like, I want it, like, I want them to really get in there, you know what? But that is such a scary, statistic. It is scary. I think that young men are just going out there with zero concept. Anyway, how to raise a healthy gamer?

What's the matter? I'm listening. What's the matter? I'm just listening. I'm trying to get to the end of this. Did you have fun? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to promote your book. You know, I mean, there's so many things we can address, you know what I mean? But how to raise a healthy gamer? How long has this book been out? About a, about almost two years. Two years. Where could they get my friend. Anywhere where books are sold. Brookstone.

Brookstone? That's where you buy your books? That's where you buy your little massagers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And my pillow, my little travel pillows. And look, he even made a post while we were doing the podcast an hour ago. Wow. Amazing.

You did. Yeah, so, I mean, I guess if people want, you know, more information about all of the random crap I talk about, then also check out the YouTube channel. Check out his YouTube channel. This one's crazy. Why you should stop watching YouTube. Wow, wow, wow. I love that.

Yeah. Sometimes you have to be a hypocrite in order to survive your own mental environment, right? So, like, people will take, they'll take their psyche. And if I have hatred, I need to compensate over here. To offset. To offset, right? So, and this is really common where it's like, okay, if you look at an abusive relationship, one partner is, like, physically abusive, and the next day, it's like gifts.

Yeah. Right? So parents will do that, too. So as we become more degenerate and evil as human beings, that other pole of performative goodness really starts to climb. So it's like, I'm God fearing. This is about God. This is about Jesus. Like, I'm a good person.

This is about the goodness. My parents used to do that. My day used to hit me and the next day, here's a car. Yeah. Got a car? Yeah. It hit me. Hit me, Papa.

I got a hit, no prize. I just got hit. The car's big. Yeah. Like a truck or something. That's still that. That's so nice. Is that still a car?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. Not worth it. There we go. It was worth it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah.

Lifelong sadness? Yeah. Overcast, overcast. Yeah, come on. Make light of it. Anyway, so healthy game, on YouTube. We got to figure it on YouTube.

We got to figure it. So follow him in all the platforms. Amazing. What a beautiful, what a beautiful, you know, I didn't know what to expect today. I'll be honest with you. Either did I. Yeah. And I thought it went perfectly.

He sent the text out. He was like, tell me about Dr. Kay. And my reply was, he can heal you. So I hope. No, there was a lot of insight. I'll be honest. Yeah. Then we text that to you?

Yeah, it was very funsy. And insightful. and enlightened, and what a great guy. Give a round of applause. Thank you guys so much.