Timcast IRL - Sunday Uncensored: Andrew Klavan Member Podcast: Could God Exist Inside The Universe He Created?

Episode Date: April 10, 2022

Join the Timcast IRL crew for a sneak peek at a members-only episode featuring commentator and best-selling author Andrew Klavan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to our special weekend show, Sunday Uncensored. Every week we produce four uncensored episodes of the TimCast IRL podcast exclusively at TimCast.com and we're going to bring you the most important for our weekend show. If you want to check out more segments just like this, become a member at TimCast.com. Now enjoy the show. We had a super chat where someone said that if God created the universe, he wouldn't, Now, enjoy the show. the question of god is substantially more profound than that but i think it's a simple way for people who don't understand these these questions to understand them and uh to so to carry this conversation forward um this person said computer programmers aren't constrained by their own code

i believe that god could exist within the universe he created through an avatar of sorts maybe like jesus hey there you go but then jesus isn't just an avatar right he is like true god and true man well exactly i mean if if god created the universe avatar a way to to to be here and experience it as man is through the body of man it's still god yeah oh like all human bodies so that you think that's the way god's fingering reality is by touching it with our with animals why i think we all have a spark of the divine, but I think Jesus was a superpower. I think the thing is, it's impossible. And when I say impossible, I literally mean to imagine living outside of time. And I think that's the important thing about God is that he lives outside of time.

We live in time. He doesn't. In Jesus, he finds out what time, you know, I always say he finds out what time is like. And people say, well, he's all-knowing. Yes, because he lives outside of time. So even though it happens in time to him, everything is simultaneous. We cannot imagine what that's like. We can't imagine what it means.

We can see effects similarly, a two-dimensional representation. That's, yeah. In that, like, when you're editing a video, you can see the file in your program from start to finish all at once. Right. And you'll see little snippets, like little frames will be on the bar. You ever edit a video? There's the video bar and you can see little clips of it and you can see the audio waveform. So it's sort of, granted, we don't have the mental capacity right now to experience it all literally at the same time, but it's a facsimile. But people will ask the question,

they'll say, well, if God knows everything that's going to happen, how can you have free will because he already knows what you're going to do? But that's comparing outside of time

to inside time. You can't do it. Well, also, yeah, there are just some questions we'll never be able to answer. That's right. So it's a mystery. It's a mystery.

I've been thinking about time. Christ being all God and all man or God being all just and all merciful. These are things that aren't perfectly possible for a human brain to reconcile. I think time is like we're on our evolutionary path towards just forgetting about time. It's all movement. It's the way we're saying the earth goes around the sun and we're calling it time.

But it's just motion. Everything's just moving. It's spinning all at once. I want to present this idea to you, Andrew, while we still have you here. So I was having an argument with a secular atheist who said, I am a wet robot. Yeah. And I said – I grew up Catholic, became atheist, was just hanging out at Punk Rock. There's no God, all this stuff.

Then I had a few interesting philosophical conversations and then sort of I would say profound realizations. And then I was like, okay, I definitely think there's a God. I guess I would describe it as I saw something when I was, when I was pondering and meditating. And, uh, I don't consider myself, um, theistic in the sense, like a scripture or anything like that, but I certainly believe there's something greater than us. There's a God. Uh, so I, as I explained to this guy, uh, and I mentioned on the show, if humans, if the universe is expansive and as massive as these people think it is, then I asked, like, would you assume that humans are the end,

the most powerful form of intelligence that exists in the universe? No, of course not. Right. Certainly something else exists more powerful and greater than us, right? Okay, there we go. That's the first step. When we know that four dimensions exist, mathematically, we've done it. We're like, boom, there's more than three dimensions.

We can't perceive them. We know there's something beyond us because it's like a Sudoku puzzle. If we look at the universe and based on science believe that there will likely be a greater intelligence than ours, doesn't it stand to reason that it could scale up beyond human comprehension and become godly? Yeah, I mean, the idea that you're always comparing, you know, the reason I made the point about the step of faith to say that it is better to give a beggar bread than to kick a child is because once you have something that is better than something else, it means it's closer to something that is good. And once you have an ultimate good, you actually – the question is done. I don't believe that there's a proof of God because that would deprive you of your freedom. But once you acknowledge that there are some things that are morally better than others, you're stuck with God.

I think there's actually – I would describe it like a Sudoku puzzle in that we're trying to figure things out. We're trying to learn and understand the universe. And based on what we think we know now, I believe there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest it is very likely there is a, I think so too. I think, you know,

even, even the fact of mathematics, you know, I, I, I talk about this in the book a little bit that, you know, some scientists will say the one I heard was I'm a meat puppet with a

chemistry set aside, you know, that's, and, and I always think, well, you know, show scientists will say, the one I heard was I'm a meat puppet with a chemistry set inside, you know. And I always think, well, you know, show me a two. You know, if everything is material, you know, what's a two? And he said, take a look at my ex-girlfriend. I'm just kidding. That scientist would not say that because he's a nice man. We do have a lot of these conversations about physical things, but I'm curious everyone's thoughts on what happens when you die.

Ah, well, you know, I certainly believe that you are part of eternity. And what I believe is we are cultivating that part of ourselves that actually is eternal. And one of the interesting things about Christianity is that it insists that you get a new body. And to me, that's really meaningful because I don't know what I would be without a body. I don't think I'm a ghost in a machine. I think my body is carrying the essence of who I am through memory and through by organizing my experiences and all this. And I think that will happen again. I do believe there'll, there'll be a new heaven and a new earth. I've been looking at lightning. Also.

So what do you, what do you, what do you think heaven is or will be? I mean, you have a new body in a new place. Is it a new life? The only thing I can say is that when I think it's probably beyond the imagination,

but the one thing I do believe is when people imagine it, they always imagine it as being static. You know, like your Christians say, for eternity we'll be singing God's praises. And you think, really? For eternity? About an hour or that. I'll be ready for something else. But I think that there'll still be the challenge

of getting closer to God infinitely. Oh, yeah. Like you're spiraling towards the galactic core. But infinitely. You bounce back out and keep doing it over and over again. No, I think it's infinite, so you never get there, actually. We don't completely share a view here,

but what I really appreciate you bringing up is the physical resurrection because so many people conceive of the Christian afterlife as your soul just floating off of your body and never returning, but that isn't what we believe. I looked at Lewis.

And it's actually really important because there is this C.S. Lewis quote, which is very clever, but it's actually heretical. Someone said, do you really believe you have a soul? He said, no, you are a soul. You have a body. I just have to say he didn't say it. Yeah, he didn't actually say that?

Oh, thank goodness. All right, thank goodness. Because it's not true, but you hear people say this all the time, and that's not a Christian view. It's actually quite Gnostic. We as Christians believe that we are a body-soul composite. So the resurrection is a very important component of that. Though I do believe at death, obviously, your soul is separated from your body.

I believe you are judged by God. And if you're in his grace and friendship, you go to heaven. But if you're not quite perfect enough to be with him, because as Scripture says, you can be united to nothing and perfect, you go through a process of purification that we as Catholics refer to as purgatory. If you have made yourself his enemy and are an obstinate mortal sin, you go to hell for all of eternity. That's what I believe. I was telling you about DC's Legends of Tomorrow.

So get this. There's a show. You ever hear of it, Legends of Tomorrow? I've heard of it. It's like a CW show. It's a show about insignificant people who travel through time to fix history. The idea is they were taken from the timeline because they didn't have big enough impact to screw up history.

And it's unlike seven seasons. But the fascinating thing is that one of the underlying plot points of the show is that Jesus is the son of God. It's a fact and everyone knows as they travel through time. So the second season was trying to reconstruct the spear of destiny that was granted its powers by the blood of christ because it gives you godly powers over the timeline to rewrite that's cool so i just think i bring that up because there's also another scene where they're talking to a bunch of vikings and they tell them that jesus is the you know the one true God or something like that. But I bring this up now again, Seamus, because I'm on season five, I think.

And they said the fates, the Greek gods, have taken over reality with the loom of fate. Everything is authoritarian. And they explain how much better life is because these people who are being controlled won't become evil. Do you see an evil person like a Joseph Stalin around you? They actually said that. I just find it fascinating. This show has an underlying premise that Christianity is true and unfalsifiable. That's very cool.

And Stalin is the bad guy. Very rare. They didn't say Hitler. They didn't say Stalin. They didn't say Stalin is the bad guy. It's so much work to get from Hollywood. I just want to mention, for my statement about what I believe on the afterlife, I may have spoken confusingly. I want to remove the term obstinate.

We just believe it's a matter of mortal sin because I'm sort of conflating terms here as I'm speaking quickly. I read a book a long time ago about near-death experiences. You mentioned that on the show, I believe. Yeah. And the fascinating thing was it was a researcher who was a skeptic, not overly religious, but interested in the phenomenon, interviewed hundreds of people

and said that the overwhelming majority were the exact same story. That most people felt like there was a bright warmth, an energy that felt like unconditional love that was calling them. Holy shit. Is that lightning?

This is interesting. I've been looking at lightning lately. Lightning goes from the earth's core above, away from earth, above the clouds. Let me, I'll go back. Actually, you just say what you're going to say. I'll say this later. I am, just to sort of stay on the topic, I am actually, you might not suspect it, I'm very skeptical of the NDE stories.

But also, it's interesting. Many people do tell the same story. I think about 30% of people describe the experience very negatively. We hear the NDE stories, right, because no one's going to sell it. It's really hot. Well, yeah, you'll sell a book. You'll sell a book called Heaven is for Real. No one's selling Hell is for Real. Also, to be fair, it could be underrepresented because if you did go to hell when you have this NDE, if it is a legitimate experience of the afterlife, you're not going to wake up and be like, yeah, I went to hell, you guys.

I'm going to be like, oh, it was great. I went towards the light and it was beautiful. I have a question. I have a near-death experience and did very just even quickly perceive yourself going to hell, if you came out of that and then said, I repent out of true fear and faith, actually out of true fear and then started going to church and praising the Lord, would you actually go to heaven at that point? Yeah, you can repent.

We believe in redemption. But it's not faith at that point. If you're at peace, the burning is going to feel good. It's still faith. Well, because you have to make a decision in deciding whether you're going to believe that was just a neurochemical reaction occurring in your brain because you were deprived of oxygen or if you really stepped into the afterlife for a moment. People still believe in communism.

You can see anything and still believe. What do you guys think hell is, right? Because it's clearly not a red guy with horns poking right while there's fire i see i believe well and i'll let you answer um after obviously i because i stole the mic from you but yeah i believe hell is ultimately an eternal state of separation from god but i do believe it also involves physical torment especially because i believe in a physical resurrection of the body and so i do believe people are in hell they're burning they're they're tortured by They're tortured by

Satan and his minions. Have a nice day. I don't believe that. Hell is real. I believe people are there. If you can accept the fire, that seems more like... There's discussion about this. What do you think about Dante's

Inferno? It's interesting. I mean, it's not canonical, but it's an interesting Yeah, I don't think it's meantferno? It's interesting. I mean, it's not canonical, but it's an interesting— Yeah, I don't think it's meant to be. It's meant to be poetry. Yeah, exactly. Does the Bible actually say fire? Yeah, well, the language of fire is used, but there's a lot of debate over this.

Yeah, because the sun looks like it's on fire, but that's plasma. Super hot gas. In The Simpsons, Homer was just forced to eat donuts, and he enjoyed it. He enjoyed it. I had this thought. That was really funny, though. What if when people die, their souls are in the earth, and then when lightning shoots out, they're releasing souls. I was looking above the clouds when lightning strikes.

You see these blue jets shoot off into the galaxy, off into space. It looks like a neural pathway activating. This is one of the interesting things about theology that people get wrong, too. Really, one way to read the Bible is that you don't die and go somewhere. You die, and then there is a day on which people are resurrected, brought back, and judged. N.T. Wright writes about this a lot, that it's not like you actually, the minute you die die you actually go some other place there is there is death and you are dead for you know oh so you don't know that's so yes this is uh this is a different i don't agree but it's interesting yeah well there is a view i don't know no no there is a view that uh so there there is one view that the the person is

effectively sleeping until the final judgment we as as Catholics believe that there's a particular judgment and a final judgment. So you are separated from your body. Your soul is in one part of heaven or hell ultimately. But at the end, we're resurrected and there's a public judgment. That's the lightning strike. Purgatory's in the earth's core. So I've actually, I have heard that before. And I remember talking to some people about it, and they said they believe the reason why we preserve bodies, ceremonial burial that we do, is to keep your body ready for resurrection.

I think that's – I'm sure God can work this out. Yeah. I think – Well, no, no, no. I don't know. Not that they're saying that they need to embalm you so that God can resurrect you, but that they preserve you in hopes. Yeah. When you're resurrected, you're resurrected.

I think it's very much symbolic. People are saying, we believe that this body will return. This person is going to use it some day. God will reanimate them. So we're going to treat the body reverently. As opposed to just incinerating them. Will you be 24? I think I've actually heard some theologians say 33.

Interesting enough, because that's when you're perfectly at your prime. That's how old Jesus was when he died. That's what you rolled on the show. That's right. There you go. There you go. It all makes sense. Thank you for coming back.

The entire thing makes sense. With this, I think I'm going to have to go. I've got to do my show in the morning, and I've got to drive home. This was fantastic. I wish we could have gotten into it more. And it was really great meeting you guys. We'll keep talking. Yeah, yeah.

I'm only an hour and a half away now. Right on. Appreciate it. Do you know how hour and a half away now. I appreciate it. Do you know how to find your way out? I do, yes. All right. Thanks so much for coming. It's been great. Thanks a lot.

We're going to talk about lightning strikes now. Also, I wanted to wait until he left to mention the parts we disagreed on so that he couldn't defend himself. This is cute. No, it was really great. Ian, what do you think happens when you die? I think the soul, I'm wondering now if the soul is stored in the earth, and then maybe the body is kept intact because the patterns, like if you ever look at astrology, like wherever the sun and the stars are when your body is being created have this imprint on you.

So maybe there's something to it. So it utilizes that imprint to release the energy through it and out into space, and that's like going to heaven um and maybe when you're if you're more in touch with and you're you're you're more like calm and confident with what you are that you're you just immediately go to heaven interesting all right so here's why andrew claven was wrong no um i love you as you're that's interesting so man so if i understand properly because there's sort of a couple things that you are starting from or taking for granted with your narrative.

You're saying souls are stored in the earth. You mean people are buried after they die and that's where their soul is? Like the electromagnetic frequency around your body. There's the human dynamo or the human, what do you call it? Or a soul. Human dynamo. Have you ever looked? We should probably pull a visual of this up so they know.

Human dynamo. Yeah, Taurus, human dynamo. So this is all astrology. Is this part of astrology or is this your personal theory? Because I don't know anything about astrology. It's an idea scientifically that your heart produces a magnetic field. Okay, the human dynamo is a superhero. No, no, type the human dynamo Taurus.

That's cool that that's a superhero. T-O-R-U-S. A Taurus is a shape. And this apparently, your heart is producing an electromagnetic field. So I think that's your soul but it's the interface with this field and the earth's magnetic field that's producing what we know as a soul but have you considered that the soul

could be something completely immaterial that we could never detect or capture with any instruments and that doesn't look like anything that was hard for me as a kid to ever to think it was completely immaterial I could never wrap my mind around I don't understand. But I think a lot of this would be things that you...

Yeah, yeah, that's it. So that's a lady because you can see the boobs. So my question is, you believe in a soul which is sort of more material, takes up physical space, and it's because you can't quite wrap your head around the idea of a soul which is totally immaterial but my question is because my question is do you think it could still be possible even though you can't wrap your head around even if it's difficult for you it could be a subatomic vibration that we can't calculate but

even that even that is a material thing like what if it is completely immaterial we just can't understand what it is outside of you know reality or what as far as't understand what it is. Is it outside of reality? As far as we understand it, it's totally spiritual. So we can't... It's not a vibration. It's not energy. It's simply not material. It's spiritual. I'm not sure exactly how to describe the spiritual.

The problem when you say immaterial, it makes me think of non-racist. That's not a real thing. Well, let me think about... You're're both wrong no uh that damn right at the same time you have to you have to die with at least a million dollars in order to go oh you bear it with you that's right so you have to have the pharaoh's got it right man you gotta have a pyramid and like well you gotta you gotta pay your your your it's possible to cross the river sad but imagine how sad it would be if that was true like the pharaohs were right and

your your body rotting away actually affected you in the afterlife and so you only had like max you know for them i guess but for for them they have like a couple thousand years of having paper thin skin that doesn't really look right and it's super gross but that's no no you need to pay the the toll the fee for to cross the river sticksx. That's why you needed money. Oh, okay. That's why they put the two coins on your eyes. We were talking about super acceleration of the soul through the Earth's core into the galaxy. If the gold stored with the dead people was also super accelerating the energy field.

It'd be funny if when you die, you go to like, everything's woke in heaven. It's just like the absolute epitome of wokeness. That's the other place bro and that's the other place oh that's what i think heaven and hell are the same thing but it's the way you interact with it so it's like the burning heat of the sun if you're calm it just feels like god's divine love and it's burning away the impurity but if you're struggling it hurts that's very fascinating because i wouldn't say that i believe that but there's an idea if i'm not mistaken in orthodox christianity which is essentially that heaven and hell are the same place and it's the state of your soul that causes you to react to god either with love or with intense pain again not necessarily my belief

not my theory not what i feel but it's interesting you should say that because there is some precedent in some schools of christian thought for that that's interesting but what i want to ask you about the soul here your view of it and maybe what I'm getting at. Because by definition, it's impossible to really explain the immaterial or the spiritual or what a soul is. What is an idea made of? Neuropathways, I guess. But that's sort of what produces an idea. As far as we understand it, that correlates with you having ideas.

But what is an idea made of? When you have an idea in your head like what is the experience of that idea made of i wonder if it's dark matter but i think dark matter might be bullshit you have no word but if it's spinning you're causing like a force of some force maybe ideas but what is but you get but like what is a force like how do we you get what i'm saying like at some point you just cannot describe it and i think well i'll let you actually keep speculating because I'm curious what you have to say about like what you would say an idea is made of. Well, this one guy, this neighbor of mine at one point was beating his girlfriend. And I was like, who the fuck? I called the cops on him one day.

I didn't know who they were. And one day I saw him walk by and I didn't know who it was. I just felt this dark force, this like black hole force. And it was – I knew it was the guy and maybe it was a demon and then the question is what is that feeling made of is that feeling just your neural chemistry or is there some immaterial component to it that we can't describe as an energy or as matter or as a vibration yeah i think it's more like that like the cia will say don't look at the person you're following because they might turn around they know they're being watched kind of thing like what is

that force that's making them know or sensing that they're being watched they really say that i think so i've heard this yeah i think this told me my point well if chris told you i would just disregard it entirely but it's not the first time i heard it though i heard it before too my point is that it's like the men who stare at goats type stuff with the spiritual it's it's so difficult to explain, but ultimately that's what I believe. I mean, I believe that its base component, like an idea, is spiritual or experience itself is spiritual. But there's no real way for us to fully describe or understand it. It's very difficult.

Like how do you describe consciousness, right? Consciousness. How do we describe consciousness? right? It's very – Consciousness. How do we describe consciousness? Well, I usually start with it's a vibration, which is a very generic way to describe it. Exactly. But the question is why is it a vibration? Because every time I ask myself the question, what is an idea made of, I can't really justify any of the descriptions that I would give it based on the material world, right?

So if I were to say it was like a vibration or energy or something, that might sound right in some instance, but why am I describing that? Why does that – why would it be that? How can I justify that? I find that you can't. Ultimately, it's just something spiritual and immaterial that we can't describe. It needs to interface. For an idea to come to fruition, you need the vibration and the body's reference like the the memory um so that you can be like that feeling makes me think of

that thing and now i have a new what i call an idea my question is why are you calling it a vibration well i look at the cosmic microwave background radiation that's like vibrating and then when you study like um nasum herriman source proton, and you look at like – oh, jeez. I guess that comes from like the Planck constant and string theory. It's not the right word. Vibration is not the right word. So then you get what I'm saying. But you get what I'm saying.

You can't describe it at some level. But I got to point something out too. Like Ian, the ideas you have about forces, Planck, whatever, all of that stuff, you've never tested any of that. You've never done the experiments. You don't know if any of that's true. You just believe it. Right. Yeah. It just comes down to can I make sense out of things.

The whole like there's a guy in the sky you'll never see and you can't understand. I'm not satisfied. But no one believes that. The God thing. Like that's – The God's a man. That's fucking crazy. The guy in the sky, that's a caricature of Christianity.

They call it he in the Bible. It's a capital H. I'm like, come on. That's nonsense to me. Like it can't be The guy in the sky, that's a caricature of Christianity. They call it he in the Bible. It's capital H. I'm like, come on, that's nonsense to me. Like, it can't be a guy in the sky. It's not. That's more nonsense than vibrational strength theory. That's a caricature of Christianity. So if everything, so.

Seamus, do you believe that God is a guy in the sky? I see what you mean. I believe that God is a man. I believe that. Well, I believe that God. So God describes himself with masculine pronouns, but of course he transcends it. But I'm not a man in the sky. Yeah, yeah.

It's not, it's not. No, I would not conceive of God the way that Ian is describing. I think people make the mistake of characterizing God as just the biggest, toughest bully around rather than the creator of the universe who exists. Yeah. Or existence itself. Yeah, exactly. Why could God not be the creation of the universe?

What do you mean? So what do you mean by that? Well, because God is uncreated, right? I don't know. So he didn't create himself. Well, that's what I believe. Okay, that makes sense. I do believe it's infinite.

I believe people can go too far in either direction. So you end up with people who are deists who say that God created the universe or some higher power created the universe and just stepped away and the universe sort of runs like a clock he wound up and let go of and he's not really paying attention to it. Then on the other hand, you have pantheists who say the universe is God and everything you're looking at is God all the time. My view is that God created the universe and he is constantly sustaining it in existence. So the universe is something different, but everything in the

universe is being held in existence by god so we learn about god through our observation of the universe but the universe is not him i do believe i think that at least i tend towards belief that the universe is god that god is it it is the it's the essence of energy interfacing with matter or vibration interfacing with matter. I'm sorry if I just keep going in circles. No, no, I'm interested in hearing what you... What if we live in a computer simulation programmed by a 20-year-old college student?

I'll probably crap myself if that's real. The college student doesn't live in the simulation he made. He controls it. He has a reason for doing it. He has expectations. There are things he wants out of it. But where is he? He's sitting in front of a computer screen is that god though in the metaphor

like where is we were in a simulation if uh if so if we're if if someone programs a universe into their computer and they're sitting outside of it they are the god of that universe of that universe not of ours so god could very in opinion, is outside of the thing he created. And I think, you know, referencing Jesus and visiting Earth as a man and all that stuff. That's how you would do it. You'd plug yourself in and send yourself into the universe you created. And you are still you, the creator and everything in the universe that you programmed. And obviously, you know, analogies break down

and it's very difficult to describe. But what we believe as Catholics is that God, we describe it as the incarnation is God entering history. That's sometimes the way that it's described. What's that? Like God, so the incarnation would be Christ's incarnation. So God taking human form. That's why I take some issues I have with it is it's just so recent

like what what about the last 100 billion years why wasn't like just because we didn't have written history so we didn't write about all the dudes that god came through well but let me let me let me say something you're assuming there are others you first why assume human motivations to god and second if you were to make an assumption and you were to assume their human motivations it's very, very simple. If a guy programmed a universe and he watched it run for thousands of years and then he said, I'm going to go inside and see what's up. It's really easy to prescribe a human motivation to God. I think the reality is you can't.

Yeah, it doesn't feel like a human motivation. It's almost like when you shine a blue light and you see orange, like the counter light. It's not the energy you're putting out, but it's what you see. That's what God feels like. Well, what we believe is the reason he entered the universe in that way, the reason the incarnation occurred, is the same reason he created the universe, which was

as an act of love. So I'm into this black hole theory where we're inside of a black hole and that there's universes, black holes within a universe which is also a black hole within another universe that's a black hole from an outside and that god is the out the people out there talking to us and that it's so many of them but then i asked ben about this and he's like no no it's much more complicated there's ben townsend and he said it's infinite black holes so it's it's the the garden of what if those black holes are just you just hard drives?

That's fucking wicked, dude. I mean – We're in Roblox. Where would the guy be that built it? That's the question. We're actually just mining Bitcoin right now. That theory would lead me up to that there's a guy at the very top that's like the grand coder. But where is he? Is he in a room that he built?

What did he build it with? You can't know. But I assume you're analogizing right now, right? You don't necessarily believe it's actually computer okay no no yeah with what tim's saying about what if it's a guy simulating reality for us i'm not saying it's not i'm very i'm trying to create i'm trying to put things in a in a simplistic human perspective like when people are like we must be in a simulation where someone created it for some reason an advanced race and it's like okay well extrapolate from there. You know what I mean?

So if you're, like I said, either recognize you can't attach human motivations to God. You can only perceive it through the lens of how a human may interpret what God is or wants, or just go ahead and make up whatever human motivation you want. I've been talking to God lately. I ask my subconscious a question and it responds. And I'm like, how much of that is God? And how much of that is my own filter telling myself what I want to hear? And you have to be very careful about that, right? Because if you're listening to yourself and telling yourself that you're hearing God,

you end up worshiping yourself. Well, that's very dangerous. In Bruce Almighty, I think it was, I think it was Bruce Almighty. He asks God if he talks to people and he says, well, people who claim to talk to me are mostly talking to themselves. Okay. So you think the subconscious, what do you guys think about the subconscious and God? Do you think they're the same thing?

I don't believe they're the same thing. No, I don't believe they're the same thing. But I think it can definitely be the case that a person is having a conversation with themselves and then they attempt to personify it as God or they believe that they're talking to God when they're talking to themselves. I definitely think that happens. Who is, how are you talking to, as you described that? I'll think a question and then the subconscious will answer it.

What does that mean? Like, I'll be like, what should I do? I'll think it. What should I do? And it'll be like, it'll show me an image of me eating like kimchi. But isn't this just you thinking in your own mind? Maybe, but it's my subconscious. I'm not choosing the response.

It just responds. You know, your? Maybe, but it's my subconscious. I'm not choosing the response. It just responds. You know, your subconscious will just say stuff sometimes. No. Sometimes you just get thoughts. Oh, I mean, I have ideas, but it's me. Oh, yeah. I think. I have an inner monologue.

I think in words and pictures and stuff. Do you sort of mean like the first idea that pops into your head after you think this? Yeah, sometimes it's not even an idea. It's like a feeling. Sometimes it'll be an image. Sometimes it'll be like, sometimes I expect like words to be like, do this, but it'll just be like the image of me doing something. Maybe that is God. Maybe, maybe people just assume they're giving themselves these things when they're asking for them. I mean, people can't perceive a prayer. I think it's definitely possible that in many instances,

people are hearing from something other than themselves and saying it's themselves i think there can be demonic influence uh i also obviously you know i i believe in prayer yeah i i caution people to yeah demonic influence because i've had different voice i've had like different people respond or whatever it is a different force and it's not the same one it's like a different one almost every time but it's like a group of them and sometimes it'll be like 60 good 40 evil or it'll be like 11 evil of them and sometimes it'll be like 60 good 40 evil or it'll be like 11 evil you know or 20 and it'll be this weird like and sometimes you'll feel that it's evil like you'll you'll you'll feel the aggression and the response yeah i mean i would

just caution you to stay away from that then be careful man i can't man at this stage of my life i've got it i gotta know you can't you can't get away i promise you can break away it's because what it is it's an abusive relationship. What if tomorrow we're getting ready for the show, and then when Ian walks in, his eyes are completely yellow and his skin is gray, and he floats in? And we're like, Ian, did you give in? Yes. I love God. Ian is gone.

I am all that remains. Honestly, I believe people are so disconnected from religion. It would be so much more creepy to be like, we are what remains or something. See how people are so disconnected from religion? If we truly can establish a connection to God, like if we can really do it and then help people to learn how to do it. See, why don't we film that? That for the vlog? Wow, I guess, you know, Ian. We are what remains. And we'll have you do the voice and he'll just mouth it.

We are Ian. Ian's trying to ascend again, and then someone walks up and hits him with a stick and he falls down. You know what else I found? Oh, sorry, guys. I was thinking words

instead of saying them for a while, 2006, 7, 8. I was experimenting with just thought communication, low-frequency communication, and it seemed like it was hijacking God. It was deciding what God was going to...

I was becoming... So then it is yourself. It seems like I was telling... Because a person can't hijack God, right? I would like tell my subconscious things and then it would start to believe them. Like when people walk around, they're like, this fucking sucks. Like it's that you're telling God that and then God starts to believe it. And then we'll create that reality for you or for other people. I believe that.

I don't believe that's the case. I think that you're convincing yourself. You're changing yourself. Right. Because if you can, yourself you're changing yourself, right? Because if you can if you can change it then it isn't God. Yeah, now you're talking about

like absolute truth that there's a thing like an absolute power that cannot be corrupted. That is possible. It's not just because I can't comprehend it doesn't mean it's not real.

Yeah, yeah. Perhaps we should set up that longer conversation between you guys but I think, you know unless there's anything else you wanted to add to it, we'll wind it down. Andrew had to leave, so, but, you know. Yeah, it was

that was that was really a great I very much enjoyed our discussion, and I really enjoyed our discussion with Andrew. I thought this was a great episode. I'll point out just to point out one last thing before we go. I want to make sure we see this. You can actually sense the people looking at you. We have this, you want to pull this article up? That's right see this. You can actually sense the people looking at you. We have this article.

Why can we sense when people are looking at us? How strange. It's freaking wild. It was strange that you didn't start reading the article right after you said the title. What do you mean? Normally you read the title and then immediately start reading the article. Because someone was looking at him. A million people are watching you at once.

But that video is so fascinating because people are watching you all the time now. Like right now there's probably 20,000 people watching you on the earth, empowering you or doing something. No, no, no, no, no, no. Based on all of the channels and the podcast and everything, it's like it's more than that. It's like we've hacked God. It's 50,000 right now just on YouTube alone from just TimCast IRL. So it's probably like 200,000 people are currently watching some form of me talk. That's amazing.

Yes, and so are you, good members over at Timcast. That's right, we love you. Thanks for hanging out. We, tomorrow, we're going to be heading to Nashville right after the show. So we'll be doing the show like normal, and then immediately once we're done, we're hopping in the vehicles, we're driving out, we're spending a week with the Daily Wire crew. It's going to be a blast. So thanks for being

members. Thanks for supporting our work. We'll see y'all next time.