Timcast IRL - Timcast IRL #343 - Survivor Of Mao's Cultural Revolution Says Its Happening Here w/Lily Tang Williams

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

Tim, Ian, and Lydia join survivor of Mao's cultural revolution, former Republican candidate, and advocate Lily Tang Williams to examine whether there are any parallels between Mao's China and the modern US, what it took to wake up to the truth about Mao, why the American Bill of Rights is crucially important, a social credit score enforced by social media, and how America believed they could 'fix' China, but the opposite ended up happening. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The suspension on the debt ceiling, it's over. The debt ceiling has not been raised and the U.S. is now essentially liquidating assets to pay its debts, which is scary, but hopefully they'll raise the debt ceiling because it seems kind of dumb not to anyway. They just do it and keep taking in more and more debt. But at the same time, the eviction moratorium has ended. It seems like things are kind of breaking and falling apart because now we're hearing there's got to be more restrictions, more masks. All of this weird authoritarian stuff is happening. Meanwhile, in Chicago, they're saying, hey, everybody, you got to wear masks. We got to get this thing under control.

And then they have Lollapalooza with thousands of people not wearing masks all partying. They said the vaccine is here. It's got excellent efficacy. And yet still they're saying we need to lock everything down. It just seems like creeping authoritarianism on top of all that. Critical race theory and critical race applied principles, the wokeness seeping into our government, into our culture, into our politics. It's, I guess you put these things together and it sounds like really

bad things are happening, obviously. And our economy is in trouble. Our government is in trouble and our culture is in trouble. And now we're being joined by an actual survivor of Mao's cultural revolution who says that there is a cultural revolution happening here in the US. and our culture is in trouble. And now we're being joined by an actual survivor of Mao's Cultural Revolution who says that there is a cultural revolution happening here in the U.S. and it is critical race theory. We are joined by Lily Tong Williams. Do you want to introduce yourself?

Oh, hi, Tim. Thanks for having me. Nice to meet you because I've been watching you guys for a while. Yes, I actually was born in Chengdu, Sichuan province of PRC, two years before Mao's Cultural Revolution. Two years, so I did not know anything. I was a child. And so from 1966 to 1976, Mao used the Cultural Revolution

to really purge his political enemies inside of a communist party. Do you know about the Great Leap Forward? Oh, yeah. From 1958 to 1961, Mao, basically his policies made an estimated 20 million to 40 million Chinese died of a mass famine. We were told, of course, later. I was too young at that time, not born yet. But when I was growing up, they said that was three years natural disasters.

Wow. That lie, I did not know anything about it until I come to this country. I discovered the truth. But today, in mainland China, 1.4 billion people, I bet there are still majority people don't know the truth. If they know, they might not be so

quiet and passive, we just let them continue to rule over them. And so Mao basically lost some power. We got a new, called the President Liu Shaoqi, and he saw him as a threat with his supporters. So Mao went outside of Beijing and used what he called

naive college students, idealistic, who worshiped him to start cultural revolution to say we're going to get rid of four old. What is the four old? You can even make that collection today. It's called old culture, old custom, old ideas, and old habits. Let's use cultural revolution to get rid of all those. So change names and change last names of your family members to cut ties. So all that stuff we can get into.

Yeah. A lot of it's like 1984. The statues are taken down. The names of streets were changed. Everything that was old was purged. We'll talk about all of that. We'll talk about your story. We're also hanging out with Ian.

I'm very excited that you're here, Lily. Thank you for coming. My pleasure, Ian. And I am also excited to be here and listen to your stories because I think this is exceedingly important for this time in American history, unfortunately. And before we get started, head over to timcast.com, become a member, and you'll get access to exclusive members-only segments from this show. They go up around 11 p.m. Monday through Thursday, and you'll get an advertisement-free experience on all of our news articles, as well as just generally supporting the work we're doing as we're expanding. We just had a meeting about one of our other shows. We just had people fly

out for another show we're doing, totally cultural shows, by the way, because we want to inspire people to have a good time and not always just be talking about politics and getting people down. We want to inspire people to do things that can actually help bring about positive change. Talking about it, complaining about it isn't enough. What do we have as an alternative? What will make people feel good and say, you know what, that authoritarianism, I don't want that stuff. I want to have a good time with my friends. So we're focusing on that. Go to TimCast.com, become a member. Don't forget to like this video, share the show with your friends if you really like the show. Today's going to be very conversational because this is a warning to everybody. You know, we've said in the show many times that critical race theory, critical race applied principles, leftist identitarianism,

whatever the word is, we can see what's happening. And they use different ways to manipulate. They'll say, oh, it's not critical race theory. Oh, wokeness doesn't mean anything. Oh, that's a pejorative. Oh, social justice. They change the word every time. That's why I say wokeness or leftist identitarianism, whatever you want to call it. We'll call it the left's cultural revolution. We have somebody who actually experienced it, who knows a bit about what happens if you don't resist it. And someone who was saying it's happening here, which should be a warning to everybody that should be more than scary, I suppose. But, you know, keep calm and carry on and we'll learn about what's happening. So let's just jump in and get started.

Do you want to tell us first? Let's start here in America. You said that what's happening here with critical race theory. And I think it's important to mention it's well beyond critical race theory. But these changes we're seeing from the left, this is a culture revolution in America? Well, as somebody who survived Mao's culture revolution, it's very terrifying to say lots of similarities.

The similarities that people who don't know about Mao's culture revolution, he used Karl Marx theory, communist manifesto author, to separate people into primarily two big groups. We all heard those names, oppressor versus oppressed. And who are under oppressor's group in Mao's China? Rich farmers, landlord, rightistists bad influencers

and country revolutionaries sounds familiar? Bad influencers. Yeah, who are those people? And rightists. Yes. That's like basically anybody. They could just be like, you're a bad influencer. Anybody who is not in line with

Mao's party, which is one party ruling China today, CCP, China's Communist Party, and anybody who disagrees with the party policies or trying to offer some suggestions to say we can improve China better, maybe by doing better economically, you all can be classified as the so-called black classes,

five classes. They're under-oppressed. I was one of supposed to be oppressed, called workers, peasants, Communist Party members, officials, People's liberation armies. Because communism is all about proletarian rule, workers' unite, right? Have you heard that before, Marxist terms? Oh, you could call that equity, equity today.

Do people even know that's a communist term? Equity, equal outcomes by forcefully doing wealth redistribution. even though that's a communist term, equity, equal outcomes, by forcefully doing wealth redistribution. That's what Mao did. He promised we're going to have land taken from the rich, give to the peasants, we're going to take over all the private properties

like factories, industries, so we can give to the people equally. People always buy into that kind of promise that never came, you know, never came. And how many people did he kill to enact that vision? Under Mao, 20 to 40 million people stormed to death during the Great Leap Forward campaign he did from 1958 to 1961.

Then, during his 10-year cultural revolution from 1966 to 1976, 20 million people died. Add those numbers together, our kids have no idea when I tell them, do you know more people died under Mao's communist China than Hitler? No.

Did not know that. Too bad we don't teach, emphasize the horrors of communism special down their mouth. I went to Venezuela once and I went to a protest. The people who were protesting were described as wealthier, more upper middle class, more successful business owners.

And I noticed something interesting that in a lot of places you mentioned that people always buy this, this lie that we're going to take from the rich and give to the poor. Well, it's simple. They're saying we're going to give you stuff. And so for these people who are living, you know, it doesn't matter what class you are. Being told you're going to get free stuff, people are like, I'll take stuff. And so for these people who are living, you know, it doesn't matter what class you are being told you're going to get free stuff. People are like, I'll take stuff. So what ends up happening is I've seen, I see this with, you know, occupy wall street. I see with other protests in other countries there in many ways, you'll see the poor people will protest when conditions are bad for the poor. And then when you get this inversion, like in Venezuela, where they take away the

property from the middle-class, it was actually middle class and upper class people protesting because they couldn't survive. They couldn't succeed. And they're the ones producing in the country. So it was interesting. It seems like the rightists or whatever, they're, of course, going to oppose this effort to strip away the wealth and the resources they build and give it to other people, I don't see how it's noble or honorable to take from somebody who has made a bunch of things by force, within reason, mind you, to just give it away to everybody else arbitrarily, especially when there's no agreement, there's no social contract. And that's one of the biggest problems we have today, which is why so many libertarians say taxation is theft.

I think there is a line, but I do find it to be particularly interesting. Long story short, it doesn't matter if it's communist China. It doesn't matter if it's Cuba, Venezuela, or even the United States. Now in the United States, they're saying the oppressors and the oppressed, and they're using race to get what they want. So now you have this idea, I guess, they're claiming – who are they claiming are the oppressors now? Typically white, cis, heteronormative men. Right, you have your own new oppressor's

groups, you know, oppressed groups. But see, to me though, it's not even about race or skin color. It's really about the cultural revolution like Mao did, right? Because Mao used critical class theory

to destroy thousands of years of Chinese civilization, culture, and religion, arts. One third of cultural relics were destroyed. Taiwan, Hong Kong people preserved more of traditional Chinese culture. Even beautiful, you know, like Chinese dresses were banned to wear during Mao time. I cannot lay my hair down like this. It's old

style. I cannot wear beautiful, sexy woman's dresses because that was capitalist. So everything has to be in line, conform to collective society. Well, here's what I think happened. In China, it was mostly ethnically Chinese. So critical class theory is what you'd have to use

in order to create your oppressor and oppressor. The critical race theorist, notably Kimberly Crenshaw, wrote in her book, Critical Race Theory, that they called it critical race theory so that people would understand that it came from critical theory from Marxist ideology. And the idea conveyed in the book is that Marx didn't understand the racial dynamics that happened in the United States about who is the oppressor and who is the oppressed.

And he seems to think, you know, his ideas of class only work in these old world, you know, ethnically homogenous places. So they needed to create a new framework that was race-based for the U.S. And this was back, I think, with like the late 70s, early 80s. And now it's come straight to the forefront, you know, some 30, 40 years later. Now it's in our schools. They're lying, saying it's not in our schools. But what they've done is they keep changing the goal. They keep moving the goalposts.

Oh, it's not, you know, critical race theory. It's something else. Oh, it's not feminism. It's something else. Oh, we're just teaching people not to be bigots. And then every step of the way, they're indoctrinating into this Marxist ideology. So we get caught up in things like critical race theory. I hear it all the time from parents saying critical race theory in our schools. And I said, have you talked about critical theory in general or critical gender theory? And they don't. So that's one of the things that keeps people kind of running in circles is the content, constant semantic debate. But it isn't our, it isn't our schools. Now it's critical race applied principle. Children are being taught all of these ideas in their, in their curriculums, not just as a whole.

So the teachers aren't saying, open up your critical race theory books. The teacher is saying, open up your science book and learn about the critical theory of the frog or something. They're injecting the ideology. It's called praxis. They're putting it into the literature. Now, these kids are going to grow up and they're going to believe this stuff. They're going to be a part of that. So we may be 10 years away from our ideological, idealistic college kids. We already have them, obviously. But imagine now all these grade school kids who are being indoctrinated. Imagine when they're in school

and then there's some charismatic, cultural Marxist leader who comes around, he's a little bit older and he rallies all of these kids now who are in their 20s. That could come here and we will face a cultural revolution in what, a decade?

Well, that's one of the similarities I see is to indoctrinate our youth, make them religiously following so-called social justice movement, right? And follow all this critical race, whatever new name they might give it. So basically, it is about equity. They just use race card, use gender issues. You have to use identity politics to separate your citizens.

It's a typical Maoist, Marxist way to do divide and conquer. How do you divide people? Mao did by classes, right? Five red, five black. And what are the Marxists doing in our country by race? If you trace back

those critical race theory, so people cannot sell communism very old-fashioned way by doing, oh, who is poor, who is rich. But they can sell to the culturally people, sensitive, compassionate, buying

the race game, race car, and look, you know, all those people who have different sexes, different genders, different races, skin color, they are oppressed. But they don't know. Oppressor versus oppressed, that's already typical Marxist, you know,

theory, Maoist theory. Then further divide people into subgroups. You have to get people to fight each other, hate each other. Mao said, revolution is not dinner party. It's not embroidery. Revolution is about crush your enemies with a hammer. That's what communist party symbol is, right? Use violence.

Scare people. Were you scared last year when you said, what's going on in our streets? Mao also used young people to top down the statues, destroy the cultural relics, and looting door to door

by red guards. Drunk, hitting, go to searching the doors, get rid of all the people, have to burn books, hide their old dresses, and hide all the Chinese arts or give them away, bury them so they don't go to concentration camps. People don't get this.

They don't get this. When the statues were being torn down. These are the stories we read about in these books. These were the movies we watched where you see the image of the people throwing the ropes and toppling the statues. We knew that this was a component of what was going on. And then we watched it happen for a year. And so many people in this country didn't care. And I saw these conversations. People would say, well, you know, Christopher Columbus was a racist or whatever. And I'm like, the point is, whether you agree or disagree, violent groups tearing

down statues without public conversations, without any democratic values. These are authoritarians who are imposing their will on everyone else. And no one asked for this. If you allow these people to keep doing whatever they want, and that's what's happened, eventually they just take absolute authority. And then what they will do is substantially worse than what they're doing now. We had a man on the show. He was a freedom fighter after the revolution in Cuba. He said if these people get real power, they'll start killing people. Well, they did.

I mean, how many people died? The most sad part is they get the children turn on their parents, grandparents, and neighbors, friends. I learned my lesson. I can't trust my friends. My friend reported to teacher about I was bragging about my good grades in schools as seven years old. Oh, she was full of herself. She was overly confident, bragging about her grades.

She'll be first one to join Mao's Young Pioneer group, rid of that red scarf. I was pushed back for a year not to join Mao's Young Pioneer to wear that red scarf. I was a red child. I was very competitive. I wanted to do it. I wanted to be first group to that red scarf. I was a red child. I was very competitive. I wanted to do it. I wanted to be first group to wear red scarf.

I got a spy, a friend reported to teachers. I got a call into teacher principal office to say, sorry, you are full of yourself. In our collective society, your individual expression, confidence are not allowed. You better to act like one of the other students. Keep your head down. Conform.

I learned my lesson at the seventh. I never forget that lesson. I never forget to remind myself, don't trust anybody in this society. And I become Red Guard later, and I become even communist youth member. When I was in college, and after graduate from law school,

I wanted to teach in Shanghai. I had to join communist party in order to teach university, to teach law. Otherwise, where your loyalty? So I did all that. But I also learned in my back burner, ooh, I better not trust anybody.

I need to be strategic what I say. Is that sad? I feel like that way today about America. I have to be careful about what I say. Why am I getting canceled? History is repeating itself. How did you wake up to what was happening in China and decide to leave? When Mao died, if you go to government schools, one party controls everything.

So you go to schools and you hold a little Chiang Mai Mao's red box and they ask you to chanting. Long live Chiang Mai Mao. Long live the party. You literally chant for quite a long time. Then you say a song. Say, hey, my parents are dear. Chiang Mai Mao is more dear. Chiang Mai Mao is the rising sun from the east.

All that stuff, right? What are the red songs? Then I never challenge that. Like, oh, is Mao a god? A human? I never challenged that. Like, oh, is Mao a god or human? I never asked that question. You were not allowed to ask those questions either. But my parents were in literally working poor class.

They did not ask questions. So by the time Mao all of a sudden died, I was already 12 years old. I mean, he was like my god, talking to me from clouds, smiling at me from the burning fire when we do Chinese stern fry. You have to put like a fire under the wok.

He said, sometimes, because every day you say chanting, it was becoming like your religion. Communism was your religion. Mao was your God. So Mao would smile at me. And so if i go to exercise in the morning everything is political you cannot just say i want to exercise because i want to look strong look pretty no not right thing to say you should say i'm exercise to protect

turn my mouth and to protect my motherland. Oh, good child, good student. You get a pat on the back. So I learned to be a straight rat, right? Oh, I cannot really say what I really feel, but I have to make it PC so I can move up. So when I woke up, mom died. That was the first time in my life I start to ask myself privately,

how did that happen? Did he die as a human? Did somebody lie to me? I had some brain left, you know, at 12. Then later, the Communist Party did come out to say, hey, Mao was a human being. Cultural revolution was a mistake. I was totally lost.

Imagine your God is dead. I just said, what's going to happen to me now? My generation, my parents' generation and Red Guard generation went to concentration for 10 years to worship him, serve him, and then later lost 10 years life without degree, without wife, without anything. How about those my uncle generations?

I was lucky I did not go to countryside for 10 years because I was too young. So people who are 5 years older, 7 years older than me, they all went to countryside. After Mao used the young people, he threw them under the bus, go to countryside, we don't need you anymore. I'm already become a godlike leader

and the rule of law was gone. Police were told to stand down. Military was all loyal to the party. So people were killing people in the streets. Sounds familiar? No law, no rule of law, no order. Defund police, okay? So my

uncle generation went to countryside. I was lucky to have even time to ask a question, what happened? So I decided I'm going to search for truth by going to the best university, which was all schools shutting down during the cultural revolution, and I could go back to school and study for a few years before I could go to college, pass this national college exam. So I wanted to search for truth. Of course, in law school, my dream, my ambition was gone. I got lost again. That's when I start to wake up to say,

maybe I should look for other options to get out of China. I will not be happy and free in this country. When I went to law school, first week, our professor said, what is law? It's called a law theory class, Soviet Union style. Law is not what you think because I thought it was for justice. No, law is a tool

for the party to use to govern the masses. It's the typical word, the masses. You are not an individual team. You are one of the numbers. You are one of the masses. So that's my truth I was looking for.

I could not change China to a society rule of law it would be always ruled by men by a few mad men dictators who want to be tyrants emperors so I started to become really rebellious college in the 80s

was best years of my life up to that point because we were going through cultural renaissance in the 80s was best years of my life up to that point because we were going through cultural renaissance in the 80s. And then Xiaoping said, okay, let some people get rich first. Let the kids hair lay down. They can wear blue jeans. They can have dancing parties. So I went to dancing party every night.

Did not even feel like study anymore. Just wanted to listen to classic music and even Chinese style rock and roll. I remember I learned disco in college in the 80s. It was already over, right? It was 60s disco. But in the 80s, I was dancing disco

in China on college campuses. That was great. First time you feel the freedom, even shake your body because you cannot even move your body. You cannot dance. You cannot sing the songs you love. You cannot date. And you cannot wear beautiful clothing.

I never know how to do makeup except lipsticks. All were capitalist styles were banned. So by the time I went to college, oh, I could do this call, shake my body anyway, stay fit. It was truly a liberation moment. That was in China?

Yes, college campus in the 80s. Wow. I was in college, 81 to 85. But if all that good stuff was happening, why would you leave? Well, when you were a college student, it's one story. But when you get a job by the state, everybody got a guaranteed job. As a college student, there was no labor market yet. It was totally still communist kind of style economy.

Central planning, everybody got a guaranteed job. So I wanted to stay in Shanghai to teach because if I go back to Sichuan, Chengdu, it was more isolated. It was less Western. But we got foreign students and foreign professors on our college campuses. One American student changed my life.

He told me about America. He put something in my head. Hey, Lily, come to my dorm. I show you something from America. I saw some piece of art and cool stuff. He showed me a pocket constitution. Wow. He was not supposed to.

That's why he was not trusted for any college student to see a foreign student or foreign professor. You got to register. There's an old lady or old man as a gatekeeper there. Register my name, my major, my dormitory address. What are you going to talk about? Time in, time out, who are you going to visit? It's all tracked. So by the time I went to his dorm, he showed me this. He told me about decoration of independence. Just my English was so bad, I couldn't understand. He just read to me very slowly. We have those truths to be self-evident. What? All men are created

equal. What do you mean? Well, Lily, you are a woman, you are Chinese, you have yellow skin, but you are creators. Daughter and son. Your rights come from God, not from your government. You have an individual right. Nobody can take away from you. That's in American's founding document. My light bulb just came on.

I never heard of individual right. I have a right? Me? By myself? Not from my government? You know what? Next time when I went back to see him, I refused to register.

My night bulbs were not turned off. It's like I found some critical term called an individual right from God. But I had to cheat because if you don't register, you get caught. Police will take you away. So I had to just because if you don't register, you get caught. The police will take you away. So I had to just, when lady goes to put a tea, go to the bathroom, I would sneak upstairs

and I would run downstairs very quietly and he told me more about constitution, separation of powers and right to vote, Bill of Rights, most important, Second Amendment right. It's like, wow! Can you imagine my feeling? It's like I have this, it's like finally

I was searching for something, and I found it as a junior year student in college. But still, I wasn't ready to leave China because I still had hope to change my country into rule of law. I just like what I heard from him, those new concepts. I just did not want to complain anymore. So I still continue to be with Venice College students, skip classes. You know what you do when you go to college that time? 6.30 in the morning, it's like a loud concentration camp in Germany.

6.30 in the morning, big speakers come on college campus. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Time to wake up, students. Time to go to school. Time to go to work. You cannot sleep in. But you can wait until that's over, be quiet, then sleep in, skip classes. So I was very rebellious because I said,

what am I going to study law for? Law is not for justice. But I still wanted to try. I haven't given up my dream, my ambition yet. Did you see, I'm assuming you did at this time, injustice?

The authorities hurting innocent people, arresting and rounding up innocent people? No. Government control all radios, all TV stations, all period articles, all newspapers. You only hear good news.

Great. Did you ever witness it yourself? I witnessed two neighbors when I was growing up in a community courtyard where my parents lived with us. Two neighbors disappeared. I witnessed people who have better positions inside the state factories, got better food rationing coupons, and I had to babysit because everything,

they said it's supposed to be free. They were never free except our community courtyard, but a family share one bathroom, one water faucet. Would you like to live there? Who the hell knows? Like so primitive. You know, when you talk about poverty, that was real poverty. So I went through that.

But I did not know how really bad this dictatorship, one-party system is. I was very patriotic. I was brainwashed to love my motherland, love the party, until I went to college. I become rebellious. Then my night bulbs came on, but I still graduated. I got a job in Shanghai to become a faculty member of a law school. That's when reality kick in. I could not even go to dance and party anymore

because every university department, guess what? Controlled by who? Communist Party Committee. They are in your university with every department. If you have a business today, private business in China, you have over 100 employees, the party committee will be on your site, supervise you, make sure there's no any threat to national security.

So when I become law school faculty, they say, well well you got to join the communist party because you teach law law is a state government tool to govern the masses so I did that but after one year I just feel like oh my god I cannot ever have academic freedom

I could never do what I wanted to do so I decided here's a country called America. Maybe I should plan my escape. You need permission to leave, Tim, to get a passport, to quit your job. It's not

like, oh, I'm just going to pack my bag and leave. No. They track you by household registration. My household registration was in Chengdu. So my legal status was my family in Chengdu. But I have my personnel file individually in Shanghai. So I could not just pack up leave. You're supposed to stay where you're supposed to stay.

So when I tried to come to America, I had to change my attitude. I had to change my strategies to border up my Communist Party committee for him to give me permission to quit my job to leave for America. It was two years, long process, and you could not trust anybody to tell anybody, I plan to leave. I will never go back. No, don't say that. So I basically just say, well, I need to go to university to get a master's degree so I can come home, serve my country better.

And so he said, well, your attitude is not good. You were not speaking up, support party policies during your weekly political study meetings. So I say, okay, I'll do better. So I started to go to my weekly meetings and remember my light bulb came on.

I was most times sitting there quiet. Don't say anything because I don't buy into that anymore. But I had to change my behaviors. Okay, I support the policy. Great. Good news. You wanted to leave. So finally, I got permission to go apply for passport

to go to graduate school in UT Austin, Texas. That was 1988. So before we get into what it was like when you first are getting out of China, I wanted to ask you, experiencing, you said neighbors disappeared? Yes, for no reason. And recently, recently, one of my junior high school students used to be on way check.

He disappeared too. All of my junior school good friends in my hometown, they don't know where he is. When you, so when you were younger, did you understand what it was to have someone disappeared?

No, I just know the adults sometimes whisper. I was a child. I lived in that courtyard until we were about 16 to move to another better place. But this eight-family shared courtyard, I was always curious when the people were talking about something, like comments on society, the government.

I would like to ask a question. They always say quiet go go there sit there you child don't say anything i just heard two people just gone i don't know what happened to them not supposed to ask questions and there's no trial no say nothing no notification don't know what happened did you ever realize as you got older what was going on now i know people disappear all the time even when i was in law school i did not know i also did not know lots of people starving to death i i did not know any of those i just wanted to base it i was young i just wanted to have some personal freedom. I want to be left alone. So I decided I should come to a free country so I can be left alone.

That's all I wanted. I did not know how ugly actually China society was. What was it like to learn of the First Amendment when you were shown that pocket constitution? Freedom of free to speak and free to assemble. you know what it's kind of funny they had all that in the chinese constitution too and assume it but they never never exist in reality but so why believe him so but the most important when he told me that the U.S. actually has a separation of powers, that was most shocking to me.

It's, oh, we have a three-branch government. You get to vote literally as a citizen. It's like, really? You know, my first time I voted in the United States, it was the year of 2000. I was 36 years old. First time to vote in my entire life I took that right so seriously where lots of people don't even vote

but they run you over anyway if you don't vote like some people don't vote but you know if you think I'm not political I don't need to vote I don't need to choose my own

you know like rulers they don't leave you alone they have interest in you where you are not interested in politics. They want to control you, dominate you, and take away more of your private property, even your self-ownership of your body. Look at what's happening last year and this year, right? So that's what communists do. So when I realized, oh, I could come to this country later, become a citizen,

vote, choose who represents me. That was a huge deal. Of course, this religious freedom, we were shut down, all religions, during Mao's cultural revolution. My grandmother, my mom were Buddhist. And all of a sudden, we could not go to Buddha's temple to say Buddha bless me anymore because that was not PC. You need to say long live Chairman Mao. Don don't say long you know buddha bless me so i i in order to become young pioneer red card i could not tell people we were buddhist that would be stupid that's black class i think maybe the the most shocking thing may have been the discovery of the Second Amendment.

Yes. What were you thinking when you discovered Americans can just have guns? I could not even comprehend that. And I could not comprehend that. I just thought, are you sure? Are you sure? Because in China, it's illegal.

You go straight to jail, right? I want to tell you a funny thing. When I first came to this country, I was afraid of guns. I was afraid to touch it. It's like a gun is going to jump on me and kill me or something. Then my husband, I'm married to a Texan, right?

I went to gun range. And they showed me. First time I went to gun range, I scared them a lot because I just said, just oh what is this people say oh no no no later you you never pick up gun like that that's not responsible you could kill somebody you number one rule you never point at a person right so i said okay so they show me how to use it and how to practice this or that So I started to feel a little bit comfortable.

And when I fired the first shot, it was very scary. It was loud, even though I had the earplugs. Then I kicked back. It was horrible. I was horrible. I said, oh, it's better I don't touch guns. So I was still afraid of guns. But after I become citizen, learned about my rights,

and especially that the Tiananmen Square massacre happened when you say citizens and the students, peaceful protesters were slaughtered. And I start to really appreciate the Second Amendment. You could have begged the tankers, soldiers to stop. Please don't kill our students. They are our brightest, best, like the Beijing citizens did. So Deng Xiaoping had to get his troops from outside of Beijing

because Beijing soldiers could not do it. Because they know, they know, oh, they're just peaceful protesters. They just won't have a dialogue with the party officials. They were not talking about the government at all. So Deng Xiaoping went to Hubei, Wuhan area to get the

troops come in. They're all indoctrinated. We have a country revolutionary in Beijing. Go to crush them. They knew the power of college students. They used the young ideological college students in the first place.

So naturally, they understood that these people would bring about change. Yes. They stopped them. So if you are not in line, you are labeled to be counter-revolutionaries. Very sad. Since 1989, the case is sealed.

Those students are counter-revolutionary according to China's law. So their moms, dads were waiting for years trying to get the case overturned, even just get a little bit better name for their children who died that day. They couldn't do it. It's a banned word on the internet. You cannot even search Tiananmen Square massacre. Did you know about Tiananmen Square massacre when you were living in China? Oh, I was here in 1988. So I watched the whole thing. I was so sad. And I had a friend who worked for Xinhua News Agency in Beijing. They were there for an entire six weeks, peaceful protest period, to feel excited, and they were just hoping,

oh, no, no crackdown. No, we just want to have a dialogue. We're not the country revolution. We're not violent criminals. And so that night, they heard the gunshots. One girl came back to office. Xinhua News Agency,

the propaganda arm of the Chinese Communist Party, young college graduates, that night all cried. They lost hope. My friends, I don't know where they are today. Gone. Do you think the state took them? Some disappeared, some went to jail.

I think this guy who worked for Xinhua News Agency, I think he left country. I don't know where he is today. Maybe Australia. I don't know. He should have found me if he knew I'm in America. But I don't know where they are. He even told me,

I'm not going to have children. I'm not going to get married. Maybe that's the least thing I can do, so-called contribute to my motherland. I'm going to be gone. I'm not going to have kids in this country. So most educated people are gone. I could not imagine wanting to leave America. I understand, though.

Actually, I take that back. Growing up in the United States and then working for companies, I took that back. You know, growing up in the United States and then working for companies where I've traveled all over the world, I've seen how amazing America is because you take it for granted not being here or you take it for granted being here. I mean, when I started traveling around covering conflict and crisis in other countries and then seeing what the rules and the laws were, I was in Thailand, for instance. You couldn't even paraphrase disparagement of the royal family. It's les majestés.

It's a crime. Even as a journalist to say, let's say, you know, Ian disparaged the crown. I could not as a reporter say Ian Crossland made a comment disparaging the crown. That itself was a crime. And so I remember having conversations with foreign journalists and one accidentally referenced someone insulted the king and then panicked and started looking around, making sure because even as a foreigner, you can get in trouble. Yes. Then I come back to America and I'm going to the security line and I see the border CBP and they're looking like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I see the American flag and I'm like, wow, I know that I can say screw off to the president all day and night and laugh.

And I can say it into the face of these federal these federal agents, these officers. And they'd look at me like a weirdo. And I'd be like, hey, I'm just saying I love America. I didn't say that. Obviously, I'm saying like you can you and it's crazy. Now, with what we're seeing with all this critical race theory stuff. Now, I understand when I hear these stories about Cuba, Venezuela, China, the Soviet Union, that if these things do keep happening here in the United States and they do get as crazy as,

they get crazier than they are, then I would understand, you know, why someone would flee their country. And that's scary to me because America is the last best hope, I guess. I mean, there's a lot of countries in the world. Some of them are pretty good. Uruguay is pretty chill, but America is something unique with that Constitution, that Bill of Rights. And if we don't defend it and we lose it, then what do we have? Where do we go? That's why I properly come out and I funded with another Vietnamese American New Hampshire Asian American Coalition. Our first rally was about

Unstop Critical Race Theory Inductration. We had 250 people showed up, and we had about 12 people on this stage when we ended the event holding signs, all men are critically equal in their own native language, Japanese, Thai, Chinese, and, you know, all kind of languages to say, you know, why people even don't know what we're saying. We just hold the signs and say this one short sentence

until the last guy, an American guy, and he's black, and he hold the sign, sit beautifully, like all men are created equal. Then we play the song, the chorus, called the American, the Beautiful. It was a very positive, unifying moment. All those immigrants come from all over the world, think America is exceptional country.

The only country you can come to achieve American dream I get emotional when I think about that American dream where can you achieve American dream and I was just so touched by watching them oh my god we defend America.

America is not systemic racist country. Otherwise, why would we all want to come? You know, sorry about that. It's a good emotion. I agree. I grew up here. I grew up in Chicago. I grew up being told a lot of things by leftists, anarchists. We didn't have critical

race theory back then, but we certainly had class theory. And so when I was younger, I heard all about the 1%, the rich. And I still have some libertarian... I consider myself to be left libertarian. I think libertarian comes first in that you can't force people to do things. You have to come to agreements and find cooperation and negotiate. There has to be mutual agreements. And it really wasn't until I started traveling the world and seeing what other countries are like that I started to realize, man, we really do have something special here. I think America has its share of bad history.

What country doesn't? The history of the world is fairly bad, but we've certainly made something special, and I think you hit the nail on the head. If it really was so awful and racist, why would everyone want to come here? Well, that's why I feel like, you know, I learned about slavery history. You know, no country is ever perfect, and we all have our issues we need to deal with.

That's why it's so important for all these citizens with diversity of ideas, minds, thoughts, skills to come together, have conversations. How are we going to solve our problems we face? How are we going to help our communities, our families? But that's what America is about. We all are multi-part immigrants from somewhere many years ago. How could we condemn each other?

How could we call it if you were born white, you're racist, your ancestors were racist. But I come here, I'm supposed to be victim, oppressed as Chinese immigrant. I come here with nothing.

Nothing. $100 borrowed. And I owe my professor, sponsor, $1,200 in debt. I could not even speak English. I was about 24 years old. I walk away from a country, my family, friends, and in a foreign land. And American people open their arms to welcome me, to offer me their homes, free items,

kitchenware, blankets, clothing, because I was a poor graduate student. And I lived in Austin, Texas, a traditionally very white neighborhood. They were so warm to me. Let's start from the beginning, because we left off you know you had just you had left china so tell me what it was like you you're you're finally leaving china

coming to america you knew and no one else did you have been planning this for years convincing everyone around you that you love the party that you're working for the party and that with your new degree from america you could come serve the chinese communist party but really in the back of your mind once you got on that plane you you were going to cross that border in America. You were going to stay in America. So what was that like? So when I get the permission to leave, here's a trick. My party boss said, OK, I will give you paper to go apply for your passport.

Even though I got into graduate school on my own time, on my own time, my own efforts, find American sponsor, all that stuff. Then he said, you must come back, serve your country. Write down, sign this agreement. Or two conditions, two consequences. We're going to kick you out of the party, number one. I didn't care about that, right? That's no big deal. I didn't want to join in the first place.

Number two, I told you about household registration, where you're supposed to stay, where you're registered as a family, which is Chengdu. Then your personnel file who travel with you, secret file that the Chinese Communist Party officials and your employers share with each other. You are not allowed to say what's inside. Your family, parents were never allowed to say what's inside.

My personnel file was in Shanghai with me when I was working in Shanghai. If I don't go back, they're going to send my file back to Chengdu, Sichuan, Western Province, next to Tibet. So I will lose opportunity to have a better career, better living standard, better pay in Shanghai, getting my law school job back. That was a tough one. That really pushed me to the corner. I better make it in this country. I don't know how. I didn't have anything to start with. Couldn't even speak the language. I just

had this big ambition and big determination. I'm going to make it. I'm going to make it. I don't want to come back to this one-party rule state. I want to be free. I want to have prosperity. I'm going to make it. I'm going to make it. I don't want to come back to this one party rule state. I want to be free. I want to have a prosperity. I want to get rich. That's how I told my friends, please, I'm going to America. I need a hundred bucks. I did not have that money. Ten dollars here, write down their name, ten dollars here, borrowed. I'm going to get rich. I'm going to pay you back. 20% interest. How is that? I raised $100 come to this country. But I was still a little bit scared because I really don't know how I'm going to pay bills. You know what? I feel so blessed. The first night I come to this country, my sponsor picked me up. 1988, May 11th at austin airport let's go see your neighborhood

because he lives next door to my undergraduate school dean so let's go say hi to your dean first i said i'm tired i was airsick i threw up during my flight i look pale there were a whole family is waiting so i showed up at the door, lock on the door, and here's this very earthly mother, like dean, professor, said, welcome to Texas with a garden rose, a red rose from her garden. And then she turned around to say, meet my oldest son, John, and then another son, you know, other kids behind John. So I met my future husband the first night I arrived in Austin, Texas.

And I thought I just came over from one point, some two billion Chinese, and he looked really dark blue eyes and big nose. So I thought he looked alien-like, but he was very nice to me. And he said, would you like to visit campus next day? And very slowly, my English was not good. I said, okay, okay. They thought I was shy, but because I could not speak English, I was tired.

I was sick. So next day, he took me to tour the UT Austin campus and took me to Dinosaur Museum. And all I heard is soars and sores and sores. I don't know what kind of dinosaur. I said, can I go home and sleep? I'm really tired.

And he was very patient. So I learned English from him. I would write down my new vocabulary, find a dictionary to learn English. And his mom was next door. Later, when I needed a place to stay, and then his mom and next door neighbor, they all offered me free room to stay so I could pay

back my debt and for two months as research assistantship I only made $500 a month but when I got my first two months check oh that was such a wonderful feeling I was lying in bed look at my first two months salary $900 for two months and And I could not sleep. I was so excited because that time $1 equal to five Chinese yuan or something. That was not the money, the most money I never made. I did not own anything in China. I did not even own myself. I only had a used bike. So now I have $900 in my check. Oh, I was excited, you know. When did you tell people that you were not going back to

China, and what was that like? Well, what happened, 1989, Tiananmen Square massacre happened, so they did not single me out, because 400,000 Chinese students got ambushed, refugee status. Because if you protest

and raise money, which we did, you could go to China and face potential hardship, prosecution, political prosecution. So we could stay. And so because of that reason, they couldn't send out all the 400,000 people because of Tiananmen Square massacre. So, thank goodness for that. I could go back to China to visit my family with my American husband later

to introduce him. He didn't say, let's go back to China before I had to marry him so your family can bless us. I said, no. I have to get their permission from long distance away because I'm student.

I'm still on student visa. If we go to China, they can stop me to say, you cannot come back to United States. My nightmare will happen again. So I had to convince my family to say, he's really nice guy. Here's a mom, dad, brother, sister, traditional Texas, nice family,

what they do, their pictures. And here's John's picture and me. I just pretend that he's like a very excellent Chinese young man, except he has blue eyes and big nose, you know? So I said, okay, let's give her blessing so then she can come home with guaranteed return ticket.

So I married myself out in a church, and my sponsor was my acting father to give me away. And I had a godmother in Texas, and she acted like my mother, and it was a beautiful wedding. But I did not have anybody from my family to attend i had their family portraits on the table in the church to say hey they're watching me that's how i married myself then took my husband back to visit and they all loved him but why wouldn't the the party make you stay then after i mean you had been gone you you broke the rules didn't you well because they i'm just one of the 400,000 people i did not go shanghai to work they probably

even did not know i went back to visit it because i did not go to say can i have my job back well i can't have my job back this is my i already broke the rule right but in order to go back and i still had a chinese passport that time and it was okay because i was one of the 400 000 students got a political refugee status because the u.s government offered that so i was lucky in that regard i could go back to find my family they saw my children later you know they and this were party for us like a it's like a wedding celebration afterwards we got married but in chinese style you know you were saying that you know even in china like a couple years before you left you

have been planning this thing you had been rebellious do you think you would have been protesting during the the tiananmen square protests or in any way i don't think you were there you weren't right i was in shanghai not in be Beijing. But the June 4th Tiananmen Square students' protests were happening all over China. So when I went back, year of like 1990 with my husband, guess what? My family act really weird. We would say hi to neighbors, have friends come over, have a big face. When everybody's gone, just my favorite uncle and his wife left in the room. Then they locked the door.

Now tell us, what do you know? See? They were asking me, what do I know about the Tiananmen Square 1989? What is the foreign press saying? What did I see on TV? I told them the truth. They did not know the truth,

but they saw with their own eyes students even in Chengdu protested and got crushed. So the crush of students is everywhere in China, not just in Beijing. The only thing you saw on CNN, but they were all over. I had a friend in Shanghai.

He got thrown into jail. He came to this country later as a graduate student and swear to God he will never go back to China. He even become Christian, and he's working, living in North Carolina. He said, no, I will never go back. Probably he's on blacklist.

He went to jail before, right? He doesn't have a good record to go back to. And so we talk sometimes, and he's very busy now. He's not very politically active but he tell me though, I really don't want to go back to China. I don't care. I care more about what's happening

in America now. Oh, I was thinking when you were saying they locked the door and they were asking you in the room what happens. Now, today, they can listen with telescopic radio and listen to asking you in the room what happens like now today they can listen with like telescopic radio and listen to people talking in their houses lasers on a window how difficult it is to get the information around when the government goes haywire it's getting more it

seems like it's getting more difficult maybe it's getting easier too in some ways that i don't know underground it's all social media now called WeChat. You have groups. So you have to be careful in China. People, I don't know what they do with their cell phones when they talk about sensitive stuff because everything can be tracked by your cell phone. The Chinese government even

banning cash now. Every financial transaction is your cell phone. When you go get your cell phone, brand new cell phone, the cell phone company, which is semi-governmental, they scan your face. They get your voice recording. Then they give you the number.

Then hook up with your bank account. And now your vaccine record, vaccine passport sounds familiar. So everything is on your cell phone. Everybody has a cell phone. It's very cheap to get. Then they built 4G, 5G network all over the country. 300, 300 million public facial recognition cameras in public places in China today. In a few years, it will be 600 million. For every two citizens in China, you have one camera watching you. And those are huge cameras,

not like little traffic cameras you saw here. Huge. I saw them before. And they are in Xinjiang, the weaker place everywhere. Watch people. You cannot even talk to your relatives overseas without somebody next to you listening to watch your thing. So it's a, people

always say, why Chinese just comply? I say, well, first of all, the government propaganda got lots of people in the cities brainwashed. Some even think social credit system is good for the society. All the bad behaviors are gone. But how about citizens' voices? How about dissidents' voices? Ah, doesn't matter, you know.

So if your social credit score system, your score is low, you cannot buy train tickets to travel. Forget about flying. Forget about getting your passport, leave the country. And your kids cannot even go to good schools. You cannot get mortgages. And you cannot even say something on your WeChat because your account was shut down. Hey, sounds familiar in America?

You self-censor all the time. Don't say anything, then you will get shot down, or your score will be low. You cannot get a job. Your kids cannot get health care benefits, cannot go to good school. Now they're forcing people getting vaccinated, and everybody has to, no exceptions. And some people will cross the firewall, which is the Internet blocker, use a VPN and watch my video interviews. Maybe, hopefully, they will watch this one too. And they will tell me, Lily, please tell Americans,

don't let America to become like China, because we have a hope in China if America is free. And you tell them, you tell them, don't become like us. You speak for us, voiceless people in China. Every time when I get a message like that, I'm just like so moved, touched. It gave me more courage to continue to speak up, you know, same way I do here. So you came to America, and it was a lot better. And you got married, you had kids, you had a good life.

At what point did you start to see the signs in America that were similar to what was happening with the Communist Party in China? I was very naive. When I first came to this country, I felt so happy, so free, even though I did not have money, did not speak English. I just focused on school, English, culture, and, of course, dating John. We got married 18 months later. Once we got married, we focused on our graduate degree. We finished graduate degree, took him back to China. I was pregnant with our first son.

Boom, boom, boom. So this happened very quick. So guess what happened? You got to make money. After graduation, you got to get jobs. So you have to get jobs and raise kids. And for 20 years, I was not political. I just wanted to live in peace and trying to achieve my American dream.

My husband had student loans. We were even sent to Hong Kong work there for two years and he pay off all his student loans with my help. I got a full time job too. Doing international trade in Hong Kong. 1996 to 98. I love Hong Kong. It's so sad what happened today. But then I come back

to this country. What happened is my American dream got interrupted. I got laid off by corporate America. I was in telecom industry, 2000, collapsed. So I got laid off. And we had a big house, mortgage to pay, our dream house with three kids.

I started my business. I always wanted to be self-employed. But my first eight years, not profitable, but that gave me time to study English, to get involved. I said, well, since I'm American citizen now, I better learn how this democracy works.

So I start to read, I start to go to HOA meetings, I become like a board member of HOA, charter school board member, later chairwoman, a fire, a principal on my watch. And still, I wasn't threatened until I go to state capitol to become student intern for free to learn how state capitol,

state government is running. And I saw all the people there asking for taxpayers' money, all special interests. So I told my husband, I was kind of depressed today. I went there. Nobody represented us. Middle class working man, woman who pay taxes for his family. All special interests.

Lots of bureaucrats there representing their special interests. Organizations, government agencies. But I still was focused on my business, trying to make money. I got even involved in 2008 in real estate. The only reason I woke up is I was independent for many years. I become Republican. And in 2008, when crash happened, when banks were bailed out, I got really upset.

Free market failed. Now we need to bail out the banks. Tarp money, remember, they bailed out. And all the Patriot Act started to track American citizens. Privacy. It's like, oh, something's not right here.

And I started to have a better English, read the books, and study history. And I even read this book really opened up my mind called Free to Choose. here and I start to have a better English, read the books and study history and I even read this book, really opened up my mind called Free to Choose. Free market economics, Milton Friedman. Then later you know, the agonist

shrugged. It's like all that just, I never heard of this ideology before. I only know two parties. I only know government do something, government do this, government help us. I never thought about there something, government do this, government help us. I never thought about there were other options. It's called free market, free enterprise,

and private charity, and private community individual help each other. So I start changing. I start to go into some different kind of meetings, and then the more I got involved with politics, the more scared I become. Why are people using Marxist terms in this country? Why are they talking about government should be bigger and bigger,

and the free stuff, get people free stuff, and turn people into renown government? You know how dangerous that is when you're in renown government? They take everything away overnight. They enslave you. They track you. You do what I say. Oh, I don't give you food. I don't give you health care. I don't give you schooling. So I become more libertarian. Say, oh, we need to have a bigger individual, smaller government. So I start to get more active in politics. My

first time testified everfired ever, it was Colorado State House. They're trying to ban our magazines, limited magazines for AR-15s. So I went there test-fired 2013, even wrote my first opinion piece published to say

we don't want this here. Otherwise, look, the Tiananmen Square massacre, maybe people will fight instead of get killed, run over by government. We cannot compromise the Second Amendment. That's the first time I testified. But then they passed anyway, party line. So I become liberty activist ever since 2014.

I run for state house in Colorado, and I got involved with Libertarian Party because I left Republicans when they upset me. When they left me, I saw they left me. They left their own platform behind and I just care about our liberty. I don't care about all those politician's rhetoric that I run again 2016 because 2016 running for U.S. Senate gave me unlimited time to talk about my stories, to get interviews like this in Colorado.

And I thought, wow, actually whenever I go tell my stories, people give me big hands. I need to do more of this. They obviously want to know more about my stories, what happened to us. So I volunteered to be speaker in the classrooms for middle school, high school, college students. So I had a sponsor called the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation based in D.C. I'm on their speaker's bureau. So students, teachers, principals could request, oh, we need eyewitness of communism from China to speak to us. Then boom, I will fly there, go to their classroom, teach students. It was so satisfying when I saw students' eyes open up like this, like I did

when I was a senior, like a junior year in college, when I heard those new concepts, right? Our students don't know much about horrors of communism. That's why also our schools are one side dominating. They do not teach you all kinds of ideology for you to choose. No. How many students heard about libertarianism? How many students have heard about other philosophers?

It's all about Marxism now. Divide and conquer. They don't use Marxism, but they talk about race. 1619. Critical race theory. Equity. Diversity. Inclusion. Training. America is

a racist country. Mass is racist. How crazy is that? Yes! So number one rule for the party. I know this. Just like 1984. Number one rule. Party is always

right. Number two. Repeat the same talking points every day even though they're big lies. Every day. Repeat it. Every day, same time. Everybody, every media. The lies will become truth. People will no longer question.

Is United States learning from Chinese Communist Party tactics? Why? If they are taking their hardcore tactics, why? We got to ask that question. I'm sorry. No, you're in it. Yeah. So American citizens need to ask more questions.

And it doesn't matter how much you're afraid to be caught. You are racist. That's why I like hearing it from your perspective, because it's not just like it's like i'm able to figure it out on my own through your vision like kind of seeing what you saw it's almost like i went through it so i'm able to re-realize how important it is you you you mentioned uh the democratic uh uh you see the democratic party or the american government whatever but uh i'll just i'll just rephrase it.

We had Jack Posobiec on the show, and he's mentioned this a couple times, that we all believed that if we opened up to China and we went there and said, look at all of our amazing capitalism, look at our amazing constitution, that they would say this is brilliant and we want to adopt it. Instead what happened was that many politicians went over to China and said,

wait a minute, you built this building. How fast was it done? You mean you just snapped your fingers and you just removed the residents and then got to build your building? You mean you built this road in how many days? Wow, in America, we have to deal with all this bureaucracy. How do we do it? And so the idea, I suppose, is that what ended up happening was Americans realized that it's faster and easier if you just trample

over people's rights. And the Chinese Communist Party certainly figured it out. Now they started importing that here. Why? Why bother with going to a court because you've got to deal with one person's rights? It's like that movie Up. You ever see that movie up where the old man has the home and the city is built around it but he won't sell it and they want to take it from him but he refuses so what starts is this little house on a hill and then after you know 30 years or so there's skyscrapers everywhere they want to build the building but his house is still there and they can't just take it from him. Well, that movie wouldn't happen in China. It would be banned. Well, probably.

But if you made the movie up in China, it would be three minutes long where the guy says, you can't have my house. And they say, you never own the house in the first place. And then they just steamroll it and then build a building. Well, during the globalization process of China, so-called modernization, building skyscrapers, high-rise housing. They actually mislocated lots of people.

And you talk about Edmund Domain is bad in America, talk about China. You know, they, I have a friend in New York City now. She's a political refugee. She had a 10 years, 15 years factory producing product services during the economic boom. And she got rich because of that. All of a sudden, the local government said, we need your land to build high-rise housing because land belongs to the state. Remember?

All the lands, all the natural resources belong to the state in China. If you build something, it's only the structure on top of the land is yours. But even for that, they want to flat it. And she went to court, did not want them abolish her factory. The court even said, it is her factory. You cannot do this. It doesn't matter. One party rule.

They control courts. They control everything. So the local government, like mafia, they bought her factory. And she had to flee to come to this country in order to try to get her story told. She even tried to hand her paper to the Xi when Xi was visiting here.

So when people talk about, oh, it's so efficient for the Chinese government to build this, build that, they also are very efficient to put one million people in concentration camps in Xinjiang today and harvesting people's organs and arresting disappeared human rights lawyers the tracing camps in Xinjiang today, and harvesting people's organs,

and arresting disappeared human rights lawyers, and citizen journalists who don't have a license to practice to report. So do we want to become like them? Democracy, Constitutional Republic, you have a process. Everybody is entitled

to fair trial, fair process of voting to decide what to do you cannot just wipe out like during last year your constitutional rights don't even matter because we have a pandemic maybe chinese leaked pandemic virus with the purpose of wake our economy and cancel all western countries citizens rights So we'll be taken over by communists. You know what I've been saying is to the people who've read the books like 1984, did you think that the totalitarian regime

wouldn't have an excuse? Did people believe when they read 1984 that the party that seized control one day just got up and said, we are taking control, and everyone said, okay, I guess. No, it's always an excuse. It's like V for Vendetta.

Have you seen V for Vendetta? You should definitely see that movie. Movie? Okay. Yeah, it's a great, it's a graphic novel series, but the movie is fantastic. And it's a story about a totalitarian regime. It's in the UK. And for them, it was a virus.

I think it was called the St. Mary's virus in the film that people got scared. Pharmaceutical company then started coming out with the cure that made tons of people rich. The party members all coincidentally got really wealthy. And it was their excuse for seizing control. People were scared, and so they gave up that control. But there's always some excuse that is put in place.

Have you read Animal Farm? Oh, yeah. It's also George Orwell, and it's basically, I read it after I read 1984, but it's like a version of what could lead up to 1984. You see the farm and the workers take over because the farmer's not doing a good enough job. They throw them out. Then the smartest of the workers seem to take control of the party and the pigs. It's a short book.

And the famous saying that there are some animals always more equal than others. Right, I know that. Like today our tyrants, governors, mayors and all the public health bureaucrats, politicians we get told stay home, no travel, don't say goodbye to your loved ones and shut your business

for public good. That's what they told us in China. It's always excuse to take away your rights and liberty. It's for public good. It's for public health. It's for society's stability. And you're not human beings. You stay home.

You must do this. You must do that. Do they have this authority to tell another human being those people are not gods, they are not angels they are not even actually decent politicians, they are corrupted tyrants, and they tell me how to live my life here, that's like a hell no

hell no, we need to march, like European people did last weekend, like the Greek people did last weekend, we people who love freedom, who have human dignity, need to unite in the world. There are so many tyrants, all want to

become the rulers, the masters to control us. To have so much power, is that nice? Like Lord of Rain, I'm going to wear this one rain. I have unlimited power. I watch those movies, it's like, wow. Absolute power corrupts.

Absolutely. And what is wrong with Americans today who believe authority? If it's a sales, you fear. You're going to just lie down, live on your knees, and stay home. And shut your business. Government give me some unemployment checks.

Give me some stimulus, and now inflation is coming. It's like the largest increase on your taxes when inflation is so big. It hurts the working class. It hurts the poor. But they don't understand economics. How come our kids don't even study a book

called Economics 101 that tells you they don't want you to become smart. They want to dumb down you. That's easy to sell your fear because you are afraid. If you are afraid, you stay home. Don't go out. You're familiar with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Of course.

I challenged her, debated her, but she totally ignored me because I'm nobody. She has an economics degree and recently on Twitter failed to define capitalism. She had started a business. She was selling merchandise. She was criticized for engaging in capitalism and being a socialist. And then she said that that's not capitalism. Capitalism is when wealthy people exploit the working class and just some very ideological and biased view of what capitalism actually means. Capitalism actually is a really simple definition. The private markets, private

enterprise, the private exchange of goods and the private trade. And socialism is the public control of the means of production. So a capitalist system, and there's in-betweens. You can have a mixed economy. We have a bit of a mixed economy. Yeah, we don't have a total

actually pure capitalism at all. That's why people cannot understand when they support Bernie Sanders and demonize capitalism, they think what we have is corporatism, is capitalism. So they feel like injustice. Of course, there's lots of

income gaps, and there's a super rich and super poor, you know, you have that in all this society. But what is our alternative? You want 100 million people to die? And you want 1% of ruling class over you? So what is our alternative? That's why we need to have conversations.

How we are going to improve our lives through more, like, fair competition? That means that we actually, free market, real free market capitalism, everybody's equal. Instead of we're talking about, oh, only the billionaires. They can shut you down. They can

lock you up. And they can sell you the things you must buy because no more competition left because they want to make more money. That's not real capitalism. It's in bed with government to have a monopoly. That's totally wrong. That's not fair to regular common man.

There's never going to be the equality in terms of class the way these class theorists believe that you could implement communism and then all of a sudden people are even on even footing because some people are still going to be taller.

Some people are still going to be shorter. Some people are still going to be faster or stronger or weaker or slower. And some people are going to be smarter and the smart people will figure out how to navigate these systems and succeed and the people who aren't as smart will probably struggle in that regard and there's nothing you can do to change it i i these these people don't understand they think everyone must be equally as smart as each other they think everybody's the same height everybody's the same speed if if we're in in the middle of the woods and a grizzly bear or how about a black bear that's charging at us, well, the taller, faster person is not going to get eaten.

The world doesn't – we can complain that it's wrong, that it sucks that the world is this way. Right. But they don't want to accept that. Right, Tim. That's why equity is Marx's term. They want the equal outcome. That's what the Cambodian communists did. They want everybody to even look the same.

If you wear glasses, you get killed. If you are too tall, we cut your legs in half because we want everybody to look the same. Is that insane? And the people buy into socialism, communism, because it sounds utopian, sounds wonderful. But it never came. Mao promised

land to the peasants, intellectuals to have free idea, free expectations. Then he never gave the land to peasants. He never gave intellectuals and even the journalists the freedom to practice, to speak up. Lots of journalists in this country are leaning left. They really don't understand history either. Teachers

too. They were indoctrinated in colleges, training teachers all about left Marxism because it sounds wonderful. They're compassionate. I understand. But the thing is, when you look at the system, when you look at the system, when you look at actually what happened, when you went to that kind of system, only 1% ruling all equally poor people. You don't get what you wanted, you desired for.

And you were being slaved because everybody relied on government instead of yourself, responsibility, families, churches, communities, the results just disastrous. It's a lot worse than what the Bernie Sanders would like to believe or I would like to talk to her if she wants to sit down with me. I invite her to sit down with me. So now with the lockdowns, you know, we saw these videos of nurses dancing in the hallways. There was one viral video where a woman was filming them rehearse their dancing. And she said, you can hear her say as she's filming it, is this why we can't get any help? What are they doing? And then you can see the nurses that are dancing. In one video, the nurses are dancing with a mock corpse that says COVID-19. It's got a toe tag on it. These are disgusting and disturbing videos.

But they're telling you, you can't visit your loved ones on their deathbed. You can't be there for the birth of your children or the death of your parents. Seeing all that stuff, my question is, it's happening all over the world. Would you compare it to communist China? And what do you do? When do you try and leave and where would you go? Well, I have no place to go. America is home. That's why I wanted to tell my stories to warn Americans that it's not just critical race theory. It's not just two weeks flat curve. It's not just, you know, like for public health and temporary shutdown.

It's not. I don't say that. I say it's our liberty and the rights could be gone forever if we don't speak up, if we don't fight back, we don't resist. And do we want to rule by communists? Have everybody who came here from communist countries then to condemn America?

I have my YouTube channel, Lily Tong Williams. I'm not going to get immigrants come to my channel talk about their stories. Why we choose this country? Why we love America? Why we reject all this nonsense

to call America systemic racist country? Is that really about race? Or is it about something else? It's about destruction, fundamentally destruction of America. The values, the exceptionism, and the constitution, the declaration of independence, to replace them with what? What are we going to do after we destruct? We're going to be equally poor?

We're going to have a Marxism. We're going to have our children all become little social justice warriors, don't have any skills, and don't have any love for this country. Chinese government, CCP is laughing to the bank right now. They have infiltrated our society, and see America exactly where they want it. They are threatening people like me in this country to speak up against the communism. We are traitors. We are counter-revolutionary. Or we are

extremists. Whatever. Our media rhetoric are consistent with Chinese official talking points. It's so sad. Why are they doing that? Do our journalists understand? If you practice journalism in China, you need to get a state license. You need to study Chairman Xi's thoughts. You need

to pass a test. Here they are to stop that can make them to get through under the bus someday. And the teachers, any conscious, good teachers, it's time to speak up now for the children of our country's sake. Don't teach division.

Don't teach hate. We need to be united as Americans. There's nothing we cannot do. We cannot win if we are united. But they're indoctrinated. They believe it all. They believe every single word of the ideology, even its contradictions. How do you communicate with someone who isn't interested in the truth,

but is only interested in defending their ideology or their cult? You've got to get them on your side first. And the way to do that is to show that communism has some benefit in small groups. It doesn't scale very well. But in a family unit, that's a communist unit. Yes, but these people don't think they're communists. In fact, when you tell some of these teachers what cultural Marxism is, they respond by saying that's a conspiracy theory.

It's not real. Possibly. You're probably right a lot of times. But I think tonight, if someone has listened to this show not always yeah there's a possibility that someone that had had been in that mindset had listened to you tonight and now thinks it differently that's possible and probable actually um and it's just one person at a time but with the video that that scales so it's 100 million people at a time or 50 million or 10 million or whatever i know i have people always say that our people think oh you're just trying to scare us we're not communist china this is not communism and it's about racial equity it's about justice i know their words but i have lived

through it lots of immigrants have lived through it look Look at the Cuban Americans, what they're saying. Look at the people who fled the former Soviet Union, what they're saying. We see the writings on the wall. We recognize the signs. We recognize the terms and tactics. When you do the diversity training now, it's like China's cultural revolution struggle sessions. You go to a room, you keep your head down, you look depressed, you apologize for being white, racist. If you don't even realize, oh, my parents actually told me, oh, man, I guess I need to dig deeper.

I have what you call hidden bias against people of color. Then you should deluge yourself, then you should apologize, and public shaming, have you seen public shaming last year during the riots and looting? Public shaming. And people take knees and all that. It's like we still have maybe some time left to stop this train going down socialist communist path, but they are here. The train has started.

It's going to go down fast. If we don't educate our citizens and to be united to realize danger, horror, we're going to go down that way. So that's why I'm calling for people to listen to immigrants like us who live through it and we don't buy this whatever left is trying to sell us. Our citizens are not our enemies. They're not.

Doesn't matter which party you belong to, you're independent Democrat, Republican, it doesn't matter. It's the people who want to control us, dominate us. Want to put a chain on our necks and chains around our brain. You cannot even think. Those are our enemies. They will throw all of us, 99% of us, under the bus.

Doesn't matter you are supporters or not. Oh, what were you going to say there? Yeah, you go ahead. Do you think there's anything that could have been done when Mao had been coming to power in the 50s that could have changed and made it so it didn't happen? Well, he did lose a little bit of power. Remember, they had a new president, Liu, after Mao, and all the people storming to death. Mao was such a supreme leader when people were storming to death. Mao was such a supreme leader when people were starving to death because all the mayors, governors, all the leaders were

appointed by the party, not elected by the people. So people were afraid to tell the truth. But if you tell the truth, like a COVID-19 cover-up or like this flooding, if you tell the truth, you might lose your job. So everybody trying to tell good news, never report bad news, never tell the truth.

So nobody could stop him. By the time he become like a godlike, by starting the cultural revolution, so he purged his political enemies. You know what happened to our, that time, the Chinese president? He was house arrested. He died alone, like a pig, alone on the floor. Who was that during what time, what year? During the Cultural Revolution,

his name is Liu Shaoqi, President of China. So Mao was not the President? Was he just a guy? Just some guy? He was a military commission chairman. He was a Communist Party chairman. Those two jobs,

one you control the party, one you control the guns. That's another similarity I see with today. Law enforcement go down, and almost like one party control now, you know, work military. It's like, it's very dangerous. When people swear to defend U.S. Constitution and Citizens Constitution rights against domestic enemy foreign or

domestic. And now you got to go through this so-called loyalty test. Almost like you got to be active anti-racist. Do we have to play race card? So the anti-racist people today, I think they practice

racism. It's all about your skin color it's all about your race but nothing about other stuff like individual character, your mind diversity of ideas, no? it's all about race, so they are actually racist but then you talk about they're fascist, Antifa is supposed to be

anti-fascist but what do they do? are they practicing actually fascism i think they are because anybody who against them you get you can get threatened mafia can come kill you well it's like uh ibram kendi said what's his real name henry uh rogers rogers that's his henry rogers is his middle and latin ibram henry rogers yeah ibram henry rogers what up hen oh ibram rogers? It's like he said. In his worldview, he wants

racial discrimination because he says it's the only way to end past racial discrimination. And then he also says that he wants future racial discrimination. But he's an anti-racist. Well, it tells you all you need to know about anti-fascists. Their idea is that they're going to implement

authoritarian tactics of violence against anyone who opposes them because, well, they have to, to defeat fascism because fascism is also violent. But that also means they have to attack innocent people too, just in case. They'll claim they won't. It's propaganda. We've seen them smash the windows. We've seen the photos from Germany where every storefront is smashed up except the one, the one that had the red salute in the window. The fist of the Communist Party of China, the symbol of Marxism, that was in the window and that was the one storefront that wasn't destroyed.

People tell me all the time, really, it's not just America now, but America is our last hope. They all feel they lost Europe, they lost Australia. I'm hoping Australian people are waking up and, you know, that there are lots of things happening all over the world. It's like there is this huge communism wave because this virus alone can shut down all the freedom-loving people's rights and liberties. Guess who benefits?

Who benefits? Follow the people who benefit to gain power and to gain money, including our own government, our own billionaires, corporations, and, of course, Chinese government, Silk Road Initiative. They are using lots

of money to buy up foreign companies, corrupt the government. Some people think, oh, they're so smart to build the Silk Road Initiative. Some people think, oh, they're so smart to build a so-called initiative. They are smart, of course, and they want your country's support to expand globally. They want to become number one by 2049. Xi Jinping said his China dream, China will be number one,

dominating power of the world. Because of the lockdown, they think that'll happen in 2028 now, that China will take over the U.S. economy as the largest economy on the planet. Well, let's go to Super Chats and see what everybody's thinking. If you haven't already, hit that like button, subscribe to the channel, go to TimCast.com. We will have a members-only segment coming up after this show at TimCast.com about 11 p.m but let's uh read these super chats rocket wreck says you were right about who owns the culture i went to barnes and noble for the first time in years i usually shop online the majority of the books covered woke ideology that's right and i think you know for a lot of us uh one of one of the things i'd like

to mention to you uh lily is to consider over the last year with all the lockdowns, everyone's forced to stay inside. People were only communicating through social media. But social media, the opinions you're allowed to have are regulated by small companies and by the people who run those companies like Zuckerberg and Dorsey. That meant that conversations that would normally happen at a bar wouldn't. Somebody who might say something that they truly believe about the news, but that opinion is banned. Say the story about Hunter Biden. You're locked down. You can't talk about it. You post it on the internet. You get banned. You say learn to code. You get banned. Conversations and ideas were purged by the big tech companies because no one had any other way to communicate. Well, let'll read a little bit more.

Just a Justice D says, Hey, Tim, have you thought about trying to get G. Edward Griffin on your show? He wrote the book The Creature from Jekyll Island, and he also did an interview with Yuri Bezmenov. That would be fantastic. We will look into that. OK, Neo D Genesis says, Keep up the great work. Waiting to see Vosh v. Kirk as Vosh's claims is three right wings on one and he can't think of anyone to partner with. He counts you as right.

Yeah, I think, you know, I'm like heterodox centrist of sorts or whatever. Certainly, I don't like the Democratic Party for basically most of the reasons you've explained what's going on with them. But the Republican Party doesn't do anything. Party politics. I don't But the Republican Party doesn't do anything. Party politics. I don't like the Republican Party either. I like the Libertarian Party only now because of the Mises Caucus and because of Dave Smith. I understand having to organize for politics, but I don't know why it has to be like a party. Why it's got to be like, we are here, join us or not.

Why can't it just be like, we're all saying what we think and you vote for whoever you want? It's a ballot access. If you are not a major party, you candidates cannot get on the ballot. There are some very strong restrictions based on your state. Some states are easier. Some states are very hard. Ever since Ross Perot ran as a third party, independent, got into presidential debate, have you seen any other ones got into presidential debate?

Nobody could. Nobody could. Nobody could. It's a two-party system dominating the society. I wish, what if we had like all American party, huh? That would be cool.

But they're saying so, you know, in New Hampshire and Republican Party that I joined, there are lots of good people are fighting the good fight. And Colorado, they have lots of work to do.

And so I think it depends. I always respect people. I met Dave Smith. I even asked him questions during Porkfest. I put him on the spot. Everybody loved it. And basically I said, you know what? If libertarians want to educate people to be effective,

then we need to do something better and more, something different. Because if a country is becoming today, from an immigrant's eyes, we're going down this path so fast, all the freedom-loving Americans somehow have failed. What have you been doing in the past 40 years? You let the radical left control the educational system

and indoctrinate our children, our college students, all our Marxists, hate their family, hate their country, but they will not move to Cuba. We cannot make them to move. We could ship them a donate air ticket. You know, I will. Yeah, me too. Yeah, but they say so.

They don't want to. They cannot say where they want to live, but they were just will. Yeah, me too. Yeah, but at the same time, they cannot say where they want to live. But they were just privileged. I have offered people. I've had these debates on Facebook

where people are like, oh, America this, America that. And I'm like, I mean this genuinely. I would love to do a mini documentary with you. You choose the location.

We cover all the costs. We go with you. We don't impose any of our views on you. We just literally say, tell us where you want to go. Show us what you want us to see. Nobody would take up the costs. We go with you. We don't impose any of our views on you. We just literally say, tell us where you want to go. Show us what you want us to see. Nobody would take up the offer.

Can we call it like release the dragon? The idea was most of these people that I argue with don't know anything about these countries they claim. They're afraid to go. And they are afraid to go. They are still living with mom and dad too. So some of these countries I've been to. And so I get in discussion with someone talking about one country or another. And they say they to go. They are still living with mom and dad too. So some of these countries I've been to. And so I get in discussion with someone talking about one country or another and they say they know what it's like. They know what it is or it's better and here's why it's better

or it's worse and here's why it's worse. And I'm like I'll pay for your ticket. I'll go with you. We'll film it and we'll let you guide us. And you'll interview whoever you want to interview. They never want to do it. Often a lot of decision making is done by feeling. That's a problem because then when you start to get analytical and explain the past and the cycles that it's confusing and it kind of threatens their feeling, their worldview

based on feeling and they don't have. I've been in that position, so I understand it. I do want to stress, though, just for this one super chat. Yes. Tomorrow, Charlie Kirk and Vosh will be here. And I guess Vosh is saying it's three right wings on one because Ian's right wing. All right. Like the weirdest thing.

I'm the Trojan horse. Yeah, I'm right wing. Let's go. Everybody's always complaining in the chat that Ian's like a leftist or he's like, you know, he's wrong. So glad. But like to Vosh, Ian's right wing. Wow. Dude, I love that guy.

Even though we disagree on like all these different things, you know what I mean? He's like a D&D friend of mine from high school. That's as far as I go. I just really hate people to be put into boxes. Don't you think? Yeah. That's why I don't like call myself a libertarian. I don't want to be put in boxes, you know?

I feel weird saying I'm a libertarian because I feel like I'm then becoming part of this authoritarian process that's saying this is a thing. But little L. Little L libertarian. I am libertarian, but I'm not a libertarian. I feel weird saying... Right. Makes sense.

So I just want to say, for tomorrow, I certainly... I think one of the problems of the left is they only learn about this show through memes

and out-of-context clips. And I think, you know, the last time we had Vosh on the show, there were a bunch of leftists actually saying, oh, it wasn't that bad.

Tim's actually not that bad. I saw comments where people are like, he actually seems like someone you'd want to hang out with, but he's kind of leftists actually saying, oh, it wasn't that bad. Tim's actually not that bad. I saw comments where people are like, he's actually seems like someone you'd want to hang out with, but he's kind of dumb. And so it's like, by all means, you can call me dumb. I don't care. But like to lie about what we believe in, what we do on the show, like they're trying to claim that we do far right extremist conspiracy nonsense, like every article we use is certified by NewsGuard.

But I will talk about far right conspiracy nonsense. I will talk about far left conspiracy nonsense because it's fun. And that's how you understand what other people think. They'll say you push the conspiracy. You've got to understand it without believing it. So the plan for tomorrow is, Ian, I have asked to just try and track the super chats so that we can write down some of the best questions and potential rebuttals, I'm mostly just, I want them to have a conversation and I don't want to, you know, intervene unless there's a fact check involved. And I want to try and mostly, I don't, I don't think it's fair if like, you know, Charlie and

I are both yelling at Vosh. I don't agree with Charlie on a lot of things. He's a conservative. I'm more libertarian, but we certainly probably agree more on more stuff than I would with Vosh. But I don't want to do a show where it's just like a pile on. So if he says something and he claims it's true and says Charlie's wrong, we'll look it up and we'll call out who we got to call out.

When I go to college campuses, lots of times Charlie Kirk's Turning Point USA on that campus normally is my host. They will make a public event. Okay, we have eyewitness of Communist China come to talk to us about her stories. And everybody's welcome. So sometimes I will get students,

especially the students who are in the middle. And I mean, I would love some people to come to challenge me, ask me questions, or even protest me, right? But it hasn't happened yet. Normally, they just listen to my story. Their eyes are really big. They will focus on my pictures and my facial expressions.

So I think that if people just can be calm and listen to each other, respect each other's differences, this country actually can get lots of down. Instead of, I hate you, if you just have a different point of view. I'll tell you, even people that are racist, I don't want to stop them from being racist. That's their worldview, and that is acceptable in the United States. I would like to debate it, but I'm not going to tell you you can't have that thought or that it's bad or wrong. Is that part of free speech anyway? Well, I disagree.

People need to evolve, and we can't do that if we're shutting each other up. I do want them to not be racist. Well, ultimately, that's my goal as an egalitarian society. Persuade them. Persuade them to not do that. Yes, by understanding their point of view. You have to sympathize and empathize. I have had conversations with some racists

and rather recently, and it's just no logic. You're right. That's why it's hard to change that because it's fearful, it's terrifying, and it's scary to think like, even if I understand them, I might start to think like that. I don't want – but no, that's not how it works.

No, no. I'll tell you what happens. I had a conversation and I was thinking to myself like this guy is basically telling me 2 plus 2 equals 5. Like some of these conversations, I'm just like, wow, they really haven't read this. They don't understand this. They make way too many broad assumptions and it's detrimental to the success of this country i get it two 2.4 plus 2.4 is 4.8 which rounds up to five i understand the logic but it's not logic it's not real logic we gotta we gotta read some more superchats it's a misuse of the word logic people people should not be racist let's read some more superchats

mediocre fisherman says there is uh there are more shortages I work at a metal shop in Wisconsin, and we are having a hard time finding metal. Wow. All right, let's see. Georgiev says, hello, Tim. Get Vosh and one of the Chinese guests you had on last month to get together on the show. I want to see how Vosh will defend his views then. You know, I respect Vosh for coming on the show now for the second time and there's a bunch of there's a few other people who have like first tried to play games to get on the show and

then didn't come on the show but now when i come back on the show i said hey vosh come on the show and he said okay and he came on the show and then we argued and then people said i was dumb and then other people said he was dumb and i was like hey man at least we're like having the conversation i'm not i don't hate the guy a lot of people say disparaging things about him like by all means i'm here to talk politics not personal beef and then when we were trying to put together another uh uh show i i tweeted at vosh something he tweeted something about critical race theory and i said why don't we have you back on the show then because he said conservatives don't know what critical race theory is so we're going to have charlie kirk and vosh on with a big part of the discussion will be critical race theory but we'll talk about everything

it might end up going long maybe i mean maybe we'll roll on. A big part of the discussion will be critical race theory, but we'll talk about everything. It might end up going long, maybe. I mean... Maybe we'll roll initiative. That's a Dungeons & Dragons thing. Yeah, I think that's why this kind of shows are so important. You give people lots of time to sit down and exchange views.

I might disagree with you. You might disagree with me. At least we get each other to listen to each other's views a little bit. They present your point. Is that, I mean, if you have a great idea, why are you so afraid of talking about it and debating it?

Why do you have to use a force to shut them down? I agree. I'm not scared to have, the only people, there's two kinds of people that I wouldn't want to have on the show. Spammers, people who

have nothing to say, like obviously you wouldn't invite them anyway, and people who are just grifting. Like their obvious behaviors where their intent is to drum up drama and cause problems and just want to, you know, I find if you have a really good idea, you can listen to other people for hours and let them talk

because your idea is so good, you don't need to yell it, you don't need to repeat it, you can wait, wait, for hours and let them talk because your idea is so good you don't need to yell it you don't need to repeat it you can wait wait let me finish this and then you can say it as opposed to someone that maybe doesn't really believe what they're saying so they repeat it over and over louder and louder because when you repeat a lie enough times it does have an

impact I'll tell you one of the challenges that will definitely be for tomorrow is gish galloping. What's that? It's when someone says a whole bunch of things really fast that makes it difficult to actually engage. Good call. That's why it's good that we're recording it, which is cool, so you can rewatch it.

Slow it down. I don't care for rules in a debate. I don't like viewing things as debates. I think we should have a conversation. But I will have to put a foot down if someone says like five points at once like two plus two equals five three plus three is seven seven plus twelve is 91 and i'm like stop stop stop we have to address the first one before you can keep saying things but people do that all the time they'll be like critical race theory is not being taught in schools it never was you're wrong about critical race theory and

marx is right about class i'm like stop stop stop We need to say the first thing, provide a rebuttal. Second thing, rebuttal. You can't just. So it'll be interesting. But let's read some more super chats. Yeah. Fun. All right.

Let's see. Oh, hey, how's it going? Oregon Life says, Cenk and his goons over at TYT had an hour-long bash session on my boy Tim Pool today. Your show is better by far jank is just pathetic to be honest i honestly just don't care jake uh come on the show dude yeah no i i i i yeah yeah actually that'd be that i'd be fine with that i don't care though you know like we did a criticism of the young turks and i said if they say anything i'm not

gonna respond because i don't care i don't i don't care to like if someone says something about me and insult me i'm like whatever dude i got i got work to do i'm not going to respond because I don't care. I don't care to, like, if someone says something about me and insults me, I'm like, whatever, dude. I got work to do. I'm not going to waste my time. Storm Viking says, Tim, after one of your posts today, you are clearly in favor of forced vaccines. You need to be honest with your audience that built you up.

Are you for the vaccine or against it? You need to be honest. What? I'm for people talking to their doctor and figuring out what makes sense for themselves. I don't like when people say the vaccine. I'm in favor. I said private businesses can mandate a vaccine.

There's so many vaccines in the world. So like be specific. I worked for Vice and in order to travel to other countries to report, you needed to get vaccinated. The security company wouldn't work with us if I wasn't because they didn't want to deal with someone who had yellow fever. If you don't like what a private business is doing in that regard, then don't work for the company. If the government mandates businesses do it. Now that's a problem. If a, if a pizza shop says we don't want to work with people who don't have, you know, you know, this like vaccines or whatever. I'm like, well then like, why did he just, that pizza guy doesn't owe you anything.

I'm more libertarian than that. The pizza guy does not owe you a job. And if he doesn't want to hire you, then, you know. Get back to personal choice. When I was in China, we had no choice. You just lined up. In school, they just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, give you lots of shots and no parental rights. But here in this free country,

if you're an adult, you have personal choice. If you're a parent, then you need to make decision for yourself and for your children. That's so simple. It's not like either for or against. Respect freedom. Respect people's right to choose. I think it's a problem when a monopolistic business starts doing things. I was just thinking that because then you need to use the government to enforce a negative right,

which is you can't force people to fill in the blank. But I'm talking about like, you know, John's Pizzeria. It's got like 10 employees and he's like, here's what I want. I'm like, John doesn't know you or anything. All right. Elizabeth Carmela says,

wow, I am enlightened. My father, retired Navy SEAL, used to talk to me about Mao when I was a teenager. I never listened. I didn't understand. I thought it was boring. I am listening now.

Time to give dad a call to apologize. A call to apologize. Wow, yes. All right. Listening now. Time to give dad a call to apologize. A call to apologize. Wow. Yes. All right. Ghost Crusader says, God bless you, Tim, for having people who escaped communism on your show to show the truth. You should get my dad on.

He left communist China at 14 and came to the U.S. and is a multimillionaire now. Wow. I sent him here for fear they would kill him. Wow. Good for him. Yeah. Wow. How for him. Yeah. Wow. How do we... Ghost Crusaders. I don't know how to get in touch with you. You can look me up on Twitter. Follow me and tweet

at me. What's your Twitter? Sour Patch Lids. There you go. That would be really interesting. Yeah. Archangel says, this lady is awesome and very based. Lily. Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate that comment. Alright. Let's see what we got here. Curtis Reynolds says, God bless this woman and God

bless the USA. Absolutely. Are you very religious? Did you used to be or did you become more religious or less religious as you transitioned from China to the United States? You know, I'm just not, I'm like, I'm not religious. I do go to churches because I'm open-minded about learning different religion. I'm a, you know, very firm supporter of religious freedom. But what happened to me, I think, make me just really, really like independent or cautious now. Skeptical. Skeptical. Skeptical.

Yeah, I always have to ask lots of questions. So you need time to study religion to really, because I was raised as Buddhist, but then we got shut down during the Mao's. It's like, you know, now it's like, okay, you know, like I'm open-minded. I mean, I always support people, whatever religion they practice, based on their personal choice. But the thing is, though, that

I think there's a tendency there are more people trying to look down on people who are Christian conservatives. But then the people who don't have religion, they believe in government. That's even more threat to me. That's another religion.

That's another religion. That's more scary. All right, this one's important. We have Return of the Mackie says, groundbreaking interview. Stream is shadow banned. Can't find by searching for it and not showing under your channel.

Sad day for American rights. Also, many of you may have noticed the stream was cutting out for some reason. It was, yeah. We have a perfect connection. We have our gigabit line

is solidified. Our IT guys here, we've built up and everything's good. We've had the green light the whole time, but for some reason the stream has been dropping off very very because of me it's never happened before yeah we've had instances where our internet flickers and we can see on our on our system the the stream rate the bit rate and so there's been instances where it's like something was wrong it turned out there was an electrical surge a lightning strike

and it fried one of our network boxes or whatever. And so then we couldn't even use our backup internet. We have backup internet. So it's an automatic system. When one goes down, it switches over automatically, and there's a bump. We can see that happen. This time, nothing on our end. I'm skeptical, as you are, that it's nefarious.

I think I worked with mines for so many years that it's usually 98% of the time a technical glitch. Well, I hope it is a technical because otherwise that's even more stuff for us to worry about. Oh, yeah. But we have this. LUA Coder says, Tim, there are a lot of Chinese communist sympathizers

in the chat today. China actually sends people to American social media to spread propaganda and pays them for it. They're called Wu Maos, which means 50 cents. Is that? Yes, I got threatened by them to Wu Mao. Wu Mao is a 50 cents army. So every time when you become internet troll,

go to say something in favor of the communist party and attacking whoever, like me, for example, on my page, they get paid 50 cents. Really? Yes. Google, it's Wu Mao. It's a 50 cents army.

I got a threat on my page. Don't you want to come home again? I once did a video about conflict with China and what China was doing and the US potentially going to war and a bunch of Western-seeming Chinese YouTubers. Well, they were pro-China YouTubers telling me I was wrong

and making rebuttal videos and coming after me. I just ignore it. I don't care. People can say whatever they want, whatever. Tim, they're paid influencers. We have to be careful how deeply the CCP infiltrated into America.

Like my human rights and liberty activists in this country from China, somebody who actually was jailed in China before, they are trying to hurt him here. They burn his car. Burn his park like statues. The way I see it is, we're running towards this end goal

and you've got people trying to distract you all the time. They're throwing things at you from the sidelines. I'm not going to stop and get into an argument with the guy who's next to the marathon. I'm in the marathon, man. I got I got to stop the chat. You become an easier target. You got to keep moving. All right.

Paul Bedard says Tim nailed it. Government and corporate corporate executives love and envy the CCP model. The democratic process is an inconvenience for them. The will of the people is irrelevant because they don't respect citizens they are beneath them yes scott all uh all uh sowski scott osowski says i've been a regular viewer for over a year now and lily is by far my favorite guest you've had on thank you for sharing your story mrs williams hopefully you can enlighten more americans thank you i will i I will until I die. Jason Van Kirk says,

I'm glad I got to watch this one live. I'm sure YouTube is going to take this one down. The stream has been dropping off, but we record them all and we put them up on a variety of platforms. Plus, we're going to have a members-only segment. That's going to be at around 11 p.m. at TimCast.com,

so go check it out. Laurel says, Lily Tong Williams is on fire. I love this woman. So much fire. I'm from Sichuan. Too much spicy food. And you were born in the year of the dragon. Yes, I'm dragon lady too. My husband always tell me

please go focus on liberty. Don't fight with me. I love it. What year were you born? 79. What does that make Ian? I don't know with me and I love you. I love it. What year were you born? 79. What does that make Ian? I don't know. It's every 12 years

you have the, you know. I'm a tiger. It's the Chinese. Oh, tiger. My dad is tiger. Yeah, tiger. What's it called?

The Chinese birth? Chinese zodiac. My husband is a bull, a pig. So actually, according to Chinese zodiac, it's very funny. Dragon and the pig get along.

We have you married for 31 years. I am the goat. Are you really? That is the greatest of all time. The G-O-A-T. I eat the goat. They do call me the goat. I like that.

That's awesome. Fran Dredger. Is that pronouncing it right? Dredger? I don't know. Lily, do you come to middle schools? Yes. In sixth to eighth grade, if they're studying world history, the teachers can request me

as their classroom guest speaker. Cool. Lily for Liberty, my Facebook page. There you go. All right. Let's see. Machismo. Joe, is that how you pronounce it machismo machismo machismo it's time to start the 2a party bridge the gap between the left and the right call it the constitutional party 2 uh 2a lily was great to hear most of your story something kept trying to interrupt the video

it's yeah it was cutting out every so often it was weird weird. And I'm looking at it like our internet's perfect. Everything's fine, yeah. It's not on our end. I can see it. This one's worth a full, clear stream. We do have the recording. Maybe we can make sure people see that on the website or something. So you do have the whole thing recorded.

Yeah, we record it. It'll be on iTunes and Spotify and all that stuff. And I think Pandora too. Yeah, Pandora now. Dane Shell says, Ian nailed it. Most of the rhetoric is based on feeling. Feelings only run one layer deep. If you go deeper, you run to logic.

That's right. That's why our brain is, it's a human being should have logic and reason. And your stomach, there's a lot of neurons in your stomach. The food you eat can really change your mood and the way you feel. Yeah, but we are human beings.

So we have all of that. You know, we do have emotions and feelings, too, you know. That's why we got to, you know, calmly talk to each other, respect each other. Yes. Here's a good one. FOMO says, Super Chat, just for having this amazing woman on. If 20% of, quote, our side had half of this woman's enthusiasm, there'd be no struggle. God bless you.

True. Thank you. That's what I'm saying. If people were animated, there wouldn't be a question. All right. Wow, you have awesome supporters. Great audience right now. So I can't read Chinese characters, so I can't read this.

A Chinese character? Yeah, I can't read the Chinese characters. From Caraface, I see your super chat, but I can't read. I don't even know how to pronounce it. It just looks like, you know, Chinese characters. I don't know where to begin. Sorry. I have a YouTube Chinese channel, Mandarin.

What's the channel? It's actually called Hua Ren Chai Yi, Voice of Chinese Americans. So I'm trying to get the Chinese to be kind of paying attention what's going on in their new country and get involved locally because we have to focus on what's going on here now. Otherwise, it's kind of dangerous. We all have no home to go because, you know, if we lose America, no place to go.

This is a really great super chat. Cletus Curtis says, I know it's a good guest when I'm fighting tears while holding my 300 blackout. Is that a weapon? It's a gun. Oh, my goodness. Wow.

Inspirational. That's truly American. That's the visage of liberty. I got a little emotional myself, and I cannot help it. People say, you're so passionate, your passion is contagious. Well, because my memory coming back to me, I cannot help it to be passionate. Well, I guess we need more passion in this country, right?

Yes. Slensder says, best guest yet. Thanks for finding Dave Smith as Secretary of State. Yes. Wow, that's great. That'll be on on dave and uh you know but uh absolutely get some more libertarians in the house he's funny you know dave's great oh he's fantastic yeah we've had him a couple times yeah yeah yeah uh i i thought

the libertarian party was a joke until i saw what he was doing and what he was talking about and he's him and the mises caucus and you know I think there's a bunch of good people coming in and they're reinvigorating it. Or invigorating it in the first place, I guess. Yeah. Gary Johnson's cool, but I mean, like,

he was really low energy. He was not too bad the first time running. The second time, I don't know what happened. It seemed like he got disillusioned and thought, well, it's,

there's no, I have no chance. This big, I can't stop the big machine. I'm going to gonna get one percent this is nuts so he just he just started acting like a clown like he just started having fun you know that's what it seemed like all right this is a good one black rock beacon says i want this woman to go berate both congress and senate on behalf of free people everywhere she is my. Tim, keep bringing on people who have survived communism. Thank you. More need to hear these stories. Absolutely.

Yes. Alright, let's see. Thank you. Thank you. Wow. Very encouraging. Cameron Terry says, Hey Tim, big fan, but I'd like to ask for a little bit of elaboration. When it comes to the private mandate of something like a vaccination, what happens to the concept of your rights and where mine begin?

Especially as variable and important as meds. So I think there's got to be medical exemptions. I have to think that I think they have to be leaning towards lax in that you have to give the benefit of the doubt to the employee, not the employer. However, it's also based on the size of the business these are really complicated things especially i especially start learning about this as i'm like building a business a business size matters if a company has less than 50 employees i i really do side with the with the employer on this one in in most capacities but i do think we need labor rights for a lot of you know you you can't have scams and stealing from paychecks and things like that employees have to have rights

in terms of like a vaccine or job requirement, small businesses, I think, should have the discretion to run their businesses for the most part as they see fit. I think serving a public accommodation is different. I don't think there should be mandatory vaccines for customers. Employees is different. That employer does not owe you a job and you don't owe him work or anything. That's a deal struck between you both. Do you think that if a company were to create a mandatory vaccine for an employee that took the job before the mandatory vaccine was initiated, that they should – and the person refuses, that the employee should have a payout package when they're released? My personal belief is yes. I think that would be equitable.

But I'm saying personal as in like if I ran a business that's what i would do should the government mandate it and stuff there's a lot of these questions aren't black and white that's one of the biggest challenges because people will say things like oh if you believe this how do you believe this and i'm like because they're two different scenarios and circumstances and we're dealing with like a granular legal system to figure out the best way to navigate these things you know if someone the way the way i feel like, if you're using public space with public plumbing and public roads and access to public fire services and police and all that stuff, then taxpayers should have access to this building.

Because if you're occupying the space and refusing to service a certain type of person because of some ideological belief or you oppose a certain kind of identity group. Well, that space could be occupied by somebody else. I don't see us having to accommodate you if you're not going to accommodate the public in return. Employees are different. A business choosing to have an arrangement with an employee is like there's 10 employees of this business in a given month. There's 100,000 customers walking in and out the door in a given month there's a scale matters but i don't think it's perfect i'm not saying that i i you know i i would say this to quote chris rock in the movie dogma i don't have beliefs necessarily have ideas beliefs are hard to change ideas you can change so clearly when michael malice came

on the show and started saying a bunch of stuff i was like actually those are really good points and then i probably moved like a little bit more down the libertarian spectrum because of that. Your alignment shifted. Definitely, because you hear smart people give you good arguments, and then you, you know. It's not just the medical exemption, religious exemption. Also, people who already

were infected have antibodies. There are so many exemptions, but they just don't even talk about it. You cannot even throw that out there. People who already got COVID tested positive. They're young, have antibodies. And is that more dangerous actually for them to continue to take another vaccine

on top of their old antibodies? I don't know. I'll say this. People should talk to their doctors because someone I know actually talked to their doctor the doctor said if you've had covid too recently you can't get it so you need to talk to a doctor but right so you pick back a medical decision like normally between you and your family members and doctors yeah at least government should stay out of it and these employers should consider all that kind

of exemptions religious is big one and i can already hear all the leftists laughing and saying duh, the conservatives who are pro-life. I'm not pro-life. There's a lot of people who are pro-life. I've had a lot of moral arguments, but I've always been private medical decisions have to be between the doctor and the individual and when it comes to pro-life and pro-choice

that is a hefty moral conundrum that I don't have the answers to. So I can only say i'm i can put it this way i am not one of these conservatives who have marched around for pro-life i have always been in more libertarian in that regard so don't bring those leftist arguments here it it bears no purchase also no vaccine passport this should be consistent throughout the world now eu is doing that it's like uh, so people cannot even travel to EU, spend money there as tourists anymore?

It's like, well, the thing is, if you make people carry this passport, what else are you going to make people to carry on their cell phone? It's like a little code, you know? Track everything. All right, my friends. We are going to have

a members-only segment coming up and we're going to talk. We'll probably get into some things, you know, YouTube doesn't allow and this always makes

those establishment media types angry that we can have these conversations over at timcast.com. So become a member. It should be up around 11 p.m. or so.

You can follow us at timcast IRL. You can follow me at timcast. Did you want to, Lily, shout out any social media or your organization or anything? Yes, if you want to write to me and contact me, I have a public page, Lily for Liberty. L-I-L-Y number for Liberty.

Lily for Liberty. Sounds very good. And my Twitter is also Lily for Liberty. That's where I was found by Lydia. And my YouTube channel is Lydia Tong Williams. If you're not on Facebook, you can always follow my YouTube and subscribe and share because it's very educational, especially you have young people who really want to learn more.

Like some of my interviews, people will write to me, oh, Lily, after your interview, actually I started to rethink about BLM. I used to really support because they started to hear, oh, trend marks, what does that mean? They started to do research. So it's very encouraging. So I will appreciate you go share my stories and follow me. And thank you, Tim, for having me tonight.

Absolutely. Thanks for coming. Thanks, Lily. You can follow me at iancrossland and at iancrossland.net if you want a nexus point for most of my social media and activity. Thanks for coming. Thanks, Lily. You can follow me at IanCrossland and at IanCrossland.net if you want a nexus point for most of my social media and activity. Thanks for coming, guys. And I just want to say that I hope that you guys will join over at our

website to help us stick it in the eye of the mainstream media because they're not fans of ours and we're not fans of theirs. You guys may also follow me on Twitter at Sour Patch Lids as I document the training of my little cat, Dip. Today I trained him to sit. He's a very good boy.

He's very treat responsive, and he's adorable. Join me there. We'll see you all over at TimCast.com. Thanks for hanging out. Bye, guys.