Timcast IRL - Timcast IRL #892 Israel Formally Invades Gaza "It Has Begun," Saudis Warn US, WW3 Feared w/Scott Horton

Episode Date: October 28, 2023

Tim, Phil Labonte, Libby Emmons (The Post Millennial), & Serge join Scott Horton for a deep discussion and analysis of the history behind the Israel-Palestine conflict, Obama's role in the war in Afghanistan, Palestinian's claim to Israeli land, & Jewish American students rallying in support of Palestinians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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but now we're seeing full-scale boots on the ground. There's some wide, uh, wild rumors going around. We gotta be very careful of, but people are sharing it. Lebanese reporters claiming there's even us troops there. I want to be careful about that because we just don't know for sure. And we don't want to fan the flames, but this is getting, uh, it's getting hot to say the least. And, uh, Saudi Arabia is warning the U S things could get, uh get pretty intense and they can get pretty intense pretty quickly. So we're going to talk a lot about that. That's basically the dominating story. I know there's mass protests happening at Grand Central Station in New York.

Many Jewish individuals who live in New York are protesting what's going on. And this could spiral out of control very quickly. So welcome to your Friday night. Fortunately for us, we have a sponsor that isn't afraid to get behind shows with a great message. And that is castbrew.com. Why? It's my company. So, of course, I sponsor myself and I'm not worried about my sponsor pulling out of my show.

No, but to be fair, there are a lot of companies that don't want to sponsor a show that's going to be like, here's a bunch of war and civilian casualties. And so that's one of the reasons we decided to make a product where we sponsor ourselves, but it's also part of the bigger mission. Go to castbrew.com, buy Cast Brew Coffee. We have the limited edition re-rise with Roberto Jr. It's limited. It's just for Halloween. And we're making fun of our own dead mascot, which is kind of sad, but we love Roberto

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If you think the work we do is very good. If you like the culture war episode we did this morning, then support our work but uh i will i will say culture war soon to be on tenant media i'm really excited for this big shout out to everyone over at tenant media uh lauren chen and everyone i'm really excited this is gonna be a great project we'll have more on that later but in the meantime smash that like button subscribe to this channel share the show with your friends joining us tonight to talk about israel it's scott Horton hi Tim thank you for having me who are you what do you do well I'm the director of the libertarian Institute on the editorial director of anti war comm I'm the host of the Scott

Horton show I've got 6,000 interviews almost 5,960 something going back to 2003 at Scott Horton org and I'm the author of Fool's Heir and Time to End the War in Afghanistan and Enough Already, Time to End the War on Terrorism. And I'm working on Provoked, how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine. And we got Phil Labonte here. You got a book signed.

What was that book? That book was Enough Already by Scott Horton. I am Phil Labonteati lead singer of the heavy metal band all that remains very failed musician anti-communist and counter-revolutionary libby hey phil hi hi everybody i'm libby emmons i am the editor with the post-millennial on human events filling in for ian again glad to be here ian's just gone he messaged me he's like i'll be back at some he's in miami oh okay he's on vacation you know vacations happen it's nice to take vacation you know what happened to be in a vacation he started working out a vacation yeah it's i don't know

i'm thinking maybe i'll look it up yeah must be on urban dictionary started started working out i think it's and then now he's doing tactical training with luke and using guns and i'm just like here here goes he said he prayed to jesus and i guns. And I'm just like, here it goes. He said he prayed to Jesus. And I'm like, it's the gym to Jesus pipeline. He's going to be in a right wing death squad the next thing you know. Ian, no. All right.

But he'll be back next week, probably. So we got Serge pressing the buttons. You introduced yourself already, right? I didn't skip over you. I did. I'm good. I'm all good. We got so wrapped up on Ian.

It's okay. I am here. I'm waiting for Ian to get back. I'm excited to see him. If anyone's a Springboks reporter, we got a really big game this weekend we can beat the all blacks anyways all right here we go fox news has it israel launches second ground incursion into gaza hamas commander killed in airstrike uh a bunch of different reports this is all major breaking news u.s won't draw red lines for Israel in war with Hamas, etc., etc. We've got this story from the Daily Mail. Quote, Hamas will feel our wrath tonight, warns Israel as it

unleashes unprecedented airstrikes on Gaza. IDF steps up ground operations and tells Palestinians to flee south now as invasion looms with phone lines and Internet cut across the city. You were mentioning just a moment ago that there's a, Scott, that one of the, I guess, rumors or thoughts or whatever is that Israel may try to split the Gaza Strip in half between two cities. Tell us what's going on.

Well, I don't really know. I have a Israeli friend that sent me a message earlier today that said the invasion has begun. And I don't know the extent of it. He actually had also sent me a document that was a few years old that was a military study an israeli military study about how to invade and conquer the strip and they had a few different ideas about how to go about it and

i guess one of them that my friend who was a veteran also he's a veteran of the 2006 lebanon war um or hezbollah war um he uh he i think thought that this would be the most likely uh take that they would invade kind of in the middle of gaza and divide uh conunis from gaza city and um you know they have a hell of a fight uh if they're really going if the doctrine truly is to eradicate hamas as they had previously said to completely eradicate hamas they have a real fight on their hands because they have thousands of guys and they have these very deep tunnels and in 2014 they started to invade and hamas guys were popping up out of the ground out all over the place and they were taking casualties they were popping up out of the ground, out all over the place,

and they were taking casualties. They were getting up close and kind of ruining the Israelis' advantage by taking them out up close. And the Israelis, they pulled back and instead just went to artillery and air power. So if they're going to truly, quote unquote, clean out the Gaza Strip of Hamas,

it's going to cost incredible casualties on both sides i just want to mention you know we hear it from uh neo-libs in the united states all the time about gun control about if you want to go up against the u.s you need nukes and all that stuff and it's like dude guys with guns are dangerous it's it's you can't occupy a street corner with a drone you can just terrorize and devastate but if you want control of something guys with guns you know so that that's yeah now seymour hirsch uh the incredibly important journalist seymour hirsch has been writing that he has uh contacts in israeli intelligence and in the military and whatever who are saying that america has delivered um these massive

bunker buster bombs which they're essentially dropped from very high altitude and she very high speed and then they have a double charge the cone fires some kind of superheated charge into the ground to dig a hole down 30 40 meters and then the main charge which is also a shape charge that's shaped downward goes so that you this is how to kill a bunker without having to use a nuke is to use these massive bunker buster bombs and then the idea is they're going to try to use these to destroy the hamas tunnels but of course hamas has dug their tunnels deep enough to try to be protected from those so we don't know if that'll really work for them or not they're going to have to do to like tunnel rat type tactics like they

did in vietnam and one of the things that that i wanted to that i was mentioning to scott earlier that we didn't want to talk about without being on air is this is going to be if they do decide to go into you know really go in full full scale it's going to be like fallujah you know in iraq and that was bloody and a lot of people died a lot of innocent people died so the idea that this is going to be some kind of easy fight that is absolutely not the case i'm uh i'm hoping that it's a crazy thing to hope but i'm not really but i'm hoping that the ukraine stuff is fizzling out and that the the but i i'm not sure i'm not so sure right there there's talk that the u.s is losing interest in this because the shifting fight a shifting fight is better than expanding into

world war three but i got this foreboding feeling as we're preparing the show reports that u.s has led airstrikes on iranian-backed targets already that's another story we'll pull up in a second and i'm like if the u.s is deploying tens of thousands of 19 000 personnel into the region already some are saying that they've been deploying the largest it's the largest nato fleet ever amassed i don't know if that's true but i'm seeing these you know these these these images and like uh various individuals in politics posting these things may or may not be true but we saw the the announcement last night the u.s has deployed uh many more troops into the region.

We're getting more moving from other areas into this area. Feels like World War III. I have information that there are Delta units being moved into the area either tomorrow or the day after. There are rumors on Twitter right now that U.s elite forces delta forces are in the conflict already in in gaza i don't i i'm i'm hard pressed to believe that well there was a picture last week of that they put the incompetence in the white house posted on instagram a picture of biden shaking hands with delta force operators and congratulating them for all the great work that they're doing those guys palestine they took it down real quick but i believe so no those guys those guys were security detail okay yeah they took it down

quickly also but you could when they read when they reposted it with their faces blacked out you could still see their tattoos yeah i mean the operational security there is completely ridiculous but look as far as world war three i don't know about you know look there's slippery slope arguments where russia ends up here, that kind of thing. But look at just the risk of regional war where we could have, you know, this war very quickly. Never mind how difficult it is for the people of Gaza and the Israeli conscripts who are invading right now, by the way but for the region this very quickly could escalate to a war with hezbollah in southern lebanon with all different kinds it's already in syria of militias in syria and why are we in syria we're in syria for israel right donald trump tried to get us out of syria three different times and

his military overrode him three different times they lied to his face and they just cancelled his orders three times and why because well because america got rid of saddam hussein and empowered iran and so now since the regime change against assad failed and iran and hezbollah had even more influence in syria than ever before then america had to stay to occupy that Al-Tanf base to block the so-called land bridge from Iran to Beirut. And so that's why our guys are there. And then when Israel goes and does what they're doing in Gaza now, then our guys are at risk. And I actually have a friend whose son is deployed in Syria right now, who's at risk of getting killed over this. You know, there's that guy that ran for Congress, and help me out, in Washington State,

that almost won the Republican. Joe Kent. Joe Kent, whose, his wife was killed in Syria after Trump ordered our guys out, and the military said no, and just said, belay that order. They said, you got it, Trump, don't do it. Yeah, the idea that-

Well, and they made him back down, actually, on the order. Right. This has happened three times in 2017 2018 and then in his lame duck session in december of 2020 he ordered he said i want our guys out and they essentially dragged their feet and then forced him to back down and change his mind and and look this gets to the very bottom line. Who listening to this show right now wants Iraq War IV? After George W. Bush put Iran's best friends in power in Baghdad, who wants to go back to Iraq? Who wants to do another war in Syria?

Supporting Israel is not in the interests of the United States of America. It's not. And General James Mattis and General David Petraeus, both in candid moments, admitted they said something very close to, our men pay a price in terms of their security in the Middle East every day because of Israel and what they do in Palestine. And you talk about Fallujah, here's a great example of that. In March of 2004, Sheikh Yassin, who was the founder of Hamas, who Israel had financed and helped for years to grow Hamas, he started moderating his position and trying to get along. So they assassinated him because they don't want a partner for peace.

We're going to talk more about that. They murdered him because he was mellowing out and that was in march of 04 was just like a week later was the giant riot in fallujah maybe it's two weeks later was the giant riot in fallujah where the black water guards were lynched and their bodies burned and hung from the court hung on the bridge. And one of the corpses was dragged through this street with another guy tied to the hood of a car with a big picture of Sheikh Yassin in the window. And it was the Israeli assassination of the founder of Hamas

that had helped to touch off that riot that killed those Blackwater guards that then led to Bush, and maybe this is what Mattis was referring to, then led to Bush and maybe this is what Mattis was referring to this led to Bush ordering James Mattis to go in there and clean them out and what they did was like a free-fire zone if you're a civilian leave the city if you don't leave the city your life is forfeit right like Vietnam and so and they didn't do that in the other battles in

Iraq war two but they did that in Fallujah. And that big, the first big battle of Fallujah in March of 04 is what really kicked off the Sunni based insurgency that killed 4000 of our guys in Iraq War II. And it was because Israel assassinated their own former sock puppet when he was becoming a public relations liability for them i wanted to point out when it came to biden and the leaked photo uh telegraph reports that it was a hostage rescue unit in israel yeah that's what i had thought is that i don't i don't uh you guys heard something different or i think it was security detail if it's delta they don't like to talk about what they're actually doing that was the scandal the scandal was they leaked the information on accident and they weren't supposed to write on their instagram yeah and that's why they deleted it delta delta is top tier special operations forces when they get killed they don't report their casualties right this is these guys are clandestine forces top tier guys yeah right above the the special forces yeah and so but but if they're there in israel

that i i think i don't know if they're gonna i don't know if they're gonna put them into israel and i this is this is only like hearsay stuff that i that i've i've got but it's my understanding that they're probably going to be going into the bases in because there's there's a base in the desert in iraq that they that they forward operate from so they can get into Syria and stuff. So if I understand correctly, they're going to be in that area. I don't know that they won't put them in support roles for the IDF. I think that more than likely if there's a support force, it'd be the two Marine Expeditionary Units that are in the area that are on carriers. You know, Delta doesn't have enough guys where they'd be a big support role they're usually the because there's

only a few hundred of them there's maybe like 500 well the post said they have generals embedded with the israeli military helping advise that could be i'm not so sure which advising is sure like we can have an argument like why why are we involved? But actual warriors, actual fighters down there, that's disconcerting. And I would also be very concerned about the kind of person that gleefully smiles with excitement at meeting Joe Biden. Yeah, seriously. No, but for real, I mean, look, if you talk to the average American, they don't like Joe Biden. No, you'll find your average Democrat who despises Donald Trump with the most extreme Trump derangement syndrome does not like Joe Biden. But they'll still vote for him.

And then I get that's fine. My point is they don't meet Joe Biden and go, yeah, fist bump, high five. Like, it's so great to meet you. And I look at this photo of these guys shaking Biden's hand and I'm like, I am worried about. Although, you know, I mean, the boss, their military and he's the president. That's basically all. That's my point. That's my point.

You know, his approval rating is down 11 points's really going on there. That's my point. His approval rating is down 11 points among Democrats right now. But this is my point. The idea that there are people who are like, I'm excited to meet him. He's the boss.

Hoorah. And it's just like, dude, Biden's an evil guy. Like you should be like, I am, you should be ashamed that he is the one giving orders.

Agree. But I think perhaps for a lot of these guys that are doing the top tier stuff they don't think joe biden's the boss they well i mean the those like just because the picture they they were smiling like i don't think that i think it's likely that they were putting a face on because you don't spit in the face of the president i would be i would be magnanimous if i met the president i would say say that I would be kind and smile as well.

My bigger concern is the excitement to meet him and get a photo op and do all these things instead of being like, look, I get he's the president. I'll be respectful. There's a difference. I'm fairly confident. I can't say for sure, but I'm fairly confident that they were getting ribbed later on. The dudes were like, really? Because there are people that I know that are not in the military that also know dudes ribbed later on. The dudes were like, really? Because there are people that I know

that are not in the military that also know dudes that are like that. And they're just like, yeah, they weren't. Well, look, I want to go back to what you're saying about how could any of them have faith in him as their commander in chief? Remember in 2013, Barack Obama tried to take us to war in Syria over the first fake sarin attack.

And essentially the american military and and any potential volunteers were like no we're not following barack obama into battle that's our commander-in-chief forget it well look if barack obama was jfk then joe biden's lbj who has faith in him like no one you're gonna sign your son up for the service when joe biden's the one calling the shots let's go if you're already on the delta team i guess you might not quit but who wants to send their son to join the service right now let's go back in time let's uh yeah so we have this period under brock obama oh boy did i fall for that one in uh 2008 i had all my friends being like he's gonna end

these wars man we all hate the wars we all hate what george w bush was doing and i was like all right whatever i guess i'll vote for the guy and then brock obama gets in and like day three he's like i'm gonna blow some kids up gotta blow them up too many of them and then we like i remember one of the first too many of them that's seamus joke seamus shout out seamus coglin uh gotta blow them up too many and uh when it's like day three of his presidency. In Pakistan. Yeah. It was like 23 women and children were killed in a village in an airstrike or whatever.

And I was just like. That was the wedding, right? Wasn't it a wedding? It's been a long time. There were a lot of weddings. I don't think that particular one was. But that one sticks with me. Pakistan.

Civilians killed. And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. He's there now. Obama was supposed to say no. And then, oh boy, did I learn quick. How old was I? I was like, oh, yeah, 2008. how old was i in 2008 and i was just like well that was fun i'm out well in that election i remember because i was in new york doing like indie art projects and everyone was very on board

with obama and i remember telling them like he promised that he was going to send more troops to afghanistan and they were like no he didn't like, no, he totally said he was going to send more guys to Afghanistan, which I can't vote for him because of that. Because he's, you know, my goal is to vote anti-war. And they were like, well, he's not going to do that. And then of course he did that. These were also the same people who, when he put the Obamacare into place that had a mandate.

And if you didn't sign up for health insurance, you would get taxed extra. They were like, that's great. And then when they got taxed extra, were like why me seriously it's partisanship is the mind killer it's the worst and you're right he out vowedly said he was going to escalate the afghan war although and i write about this i got i got a chapter two on this in fool's errand what he really said he wanted to send a couple brigades which was mostly just like a pr thing that he was saying afghanistan is

the good war iraq is the bad war whatever then as soon as he got into power they just absolutely rolled him and it was the secretary of defense the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff generals petraeus and mccrystal in alliance with mccain and graham the Senate, and they spent nine months pressuring him to escalate that war by 70,000 troops, which eventually he did. And Lindsey Graham promised him, he said, give us a number, this is after he already sent 40.

Graham said, give us, us being him and McCain, give us a number that starts with a three and we'll leave you alone, meaning 30,000 something more troops. And Obama made the deal. So here was his calculation. I'm going to triple a war that I know I can't win.

I know that I'm going to get thousands of American soldiers shot and blown up and killed. I know I'm going to get tens or hundreds of thousands of Afghans killed, but it's going to keep John McCain off my back we made a deal and and that was what he did and so he escalated the war and then he lost it anyway lindsey graham is vile evil you saw what he just said recently right yeah with or without evidence

it's time to start bombing iranian targets he wants to go to war with iran so bad and it i know that there are still like holdovers in the in the government that still think it's a good idea i don't think that there's anyone in america that thinks it's a good idea no regular people in america that think it's a good idea to engage in a war with iran right look in 2007 dick cheney and george bush wanted to they were escalating the war they launched the the iraq war surge and then they even dropped the lies about the nuclear weapons program for a minute to focus on the lies that they claimed and people should check this it's not true and i wrote it all up in enough already they claimed

that iran was responsible for every roadside bomb that went off in shiite parts of iraq that's just not true they were all being made in iraq by iraqis but that was the propaganda and that was supposed to be the excuse for the war and then what happened was that the joint chiefs brought george w bush to the pentagon and i believe this is in january or february of 2007 and they went to the tank like the secure room in the basement or whatever and they told w bush we're not going to iran like maybe the air force and the navy talk tough with their air power but the army and the marines who are already getting chewed up in iraq and afghanistan and the special operations forces they will die by the

thousands and thousands and maybe tens of thousands in a war because you have to send it to take out the anti-aircraft you have to send in special operations forces with laser designators to take out the anti-aircraft and you sure can't win a war or get a real regime change from the air all you could do is some kind of crazy punitive strike anyway right and as they put it they say guys with guns they said that's right we do not have strategic uh i forgot the word for it what was it the strategic dominant that's not the term for it i'm sorry um i believe it would i'm sorry anyway the point was the pentagon they want to be able to um oh escalation dominance pardon me this was the term i'm looking for we we don't

want to fight unless we have escalation dominance meaning we control every stage of the war so when we do this they'll do that but don't worry because then we'll do this and then they'll do that and but we have that covered and they said but in the case of iran we do not have escalation dominance in the case of iran if we attack iran they have tens of thousands of missiles now luckily we don't have a hundred thousand troops in iraq and afghanistan anymore but we got tens of thousands in kuwait we still still do have thousands in Iraq, low thousands in Iraq. And we have the 5th Fleet Navy Base at

Bahrain. And we have CENTCOM headquarters at the Al-Yulid Base in Qatar. And our allies, the Saudis, Bahrain, UAE, have trillions of dollars worth of economic targets all up and down the western side of

that gulf and if we go to war with iran every bit of that is up for grabs including our navy and air base there a geography lesson would wake a lot of americans up very quickly so you can pull this up this is google maps figure it out as soon as you look at the map, you go, now I get it. Iraq, Afghanistan. Two amazing coincidental countries for the U.S. that's having a bunch of military bases in. And Kuwait, where we have a bunch of troops. I wonder why that may be. And what do you think Iran is thinking, surrounded by U.S. military assets?

This has been the plan for a long time. In fact, Cenk Uygur mentioned Wesley Clark. Was that his name? Yes. Who talked about the seven nations the U.S. wanted to invade. And Iran's one of them. Has the U.S. gone after all of them already? Or which ones have not? Almost.

Okay. All right. So it's a great anecdote. People who aren't familiar, you ought to look this up. It's General Wesley Clark. He was the guy that did the Kosovo War for Bill Clinton. He was the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO in 1999. Almost got us all killed in World War III there.

Ask me about that anecdote later. But anyway, and this gets right to the neocons and the Israel lobby in the United States. He went to the Pentagon right after September 11th. And an officer said, General, come here. I want to show you something, and showed him this piece of paper. He said, this is the plan for regime change in the new war. He said, we're going to war with Iraq. And Wesley Clark said, Iraq? Why would we go to Iraq?

They don't have anything to do with September 11th or Al-Qaeda, of course. And the guy said, yeah, no, check it out. So the list was, I hope i can get this right the list was iraq lebanon by which they meant not necessarily everyone in beirut but hezbollah in lebanon syria libya somalia and i already say sudan and iran ending with iran well they got they did iraq war ii they failed to do the regime change in syria they did libya they broke off the south from sudan um and you know there was a regime change there although i don't know if there was america's sock puppets really that took over or not but they certainly broke the country in half and And so the only one left is, well, and Hezbollah still stands.

Yeah. And then is Iran. And so, look, this gets to all of Iraq War II. Let's talk about the clean break. Have you ever read the paper, A Clean Break? Have you ever heard of that? Okay. So, David Wormser is an important neoconservative apparatchik.

He was foreign policy advisor to Dick Cheney in the first W. Bush term. And in 1996, when Benjamin Netanyahu was brand new, the first time he was the prime minister of Israel, he came in in 96. And David Wormser, Douglas Fythethe and richard pearl wrote this study these are american neoconservatives it's called a clean break a new strategy for securing the realm and they wrote it for netanyahu and what it says is this it says iran syria and hezbollah are the threat to Israel, particularly Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, backed by Iran and Syria. And what we want to do is we want to break that chain.

And then, get this, they said to break that chain, what we want to do is we want to get rid of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Huh? Saddam Hussein is the Sunni the minority sunni dictator sitting on a super majority shiite population and iran and hezbollah of course are these fundamentalist shiite regimes so why does it make sense to these neocons to get rid of saddam hussein well it was this ridiculous rube goldberg scheme that they had come up with if we get rid of saddam Hussein. Well, it was this ridiculous Rube Goldberg scheme that they had come up with.

If we get rid of Saddam Hussein... Who's Rube Goldberg? Oh, Rube Goldberg is the guy that makes the ridiculous, like, the mousetrap machine where it's like a hundred little gears turned to make...

Yeah, Pee Wee Herman's breakfast. The perpetual motion machine. That's exactly right. Pee Wee Herman's breakfast. There's probably a lot of young people, some jenny people, who are like, what? Yeah, y'all get the Pee Weee Herman's breakfast. There's probably a lot of young people, some jazzy people, like, what? Yeah, y'all get the Pee-wee's Big Adventure off the Pirate Bay tonight.

It's a classic. It's a great movie. I think it's probably on Netflix. It must be. But look, so here was the scheme, okay? The Rube Goldberg scheme was if we get rid of Saddam Hussein, then we will get the cousin of the King of Jordan to take over Iraq. And because he's a Hashemite with the blood of the prophet in his veins, all the Shiites will just bend over and

kiss his bottom and do whatever he says, which this is completely crazy. The Shiites don't revere the Hashemites at all. The Hashemites are Sunnis. And even the shiites revere the bloodline of the prophet it's not like they're priests and even priests and cardinals and bishops don't have like political control over their people directly so in other words they were living in this fantasy world that the shiites of iraq would become compliant under the new pro-american installed and pro-israeli installed regime and then because shiite islam is born in iraq and then spread into iran they would get the shiite clergy in najaf to order hezbollah to stop being friends with iran and start being friends with israel and and iraq under these compliant shiites would then give the full

advantage to america jordan turkey and israel our friends in the region against iran well tim this is the dumbest damn thing this makes no sense at all and and people can read it's called a clean break by wormser the follow-up is called Coping with Crumbling States. And if you really want to know, they wrote a book about it called Tyranny's Ally. And then what really happened in Iraq War II? What happened in Iraq War II was Bush overthrew the minority Sunni dictator and he put the supermajority Shiite population in charge

and their political factions, who happened to be guys who'd been living in Iran for 30 years since Jimmy Carter had hired Saddam Hussein to invade Iran back after the revolution. And so they were the ones who came and inherited the whole thing. So when we think about Iraq War II of the George W. Bush years, that whole five-year civil war that was going on, that was Bush fighting for Iran's side in the war against his own friends because that was what the

neoconservatives thought would be good for israel i saw this post on twitter they were talking about how biden's approval collapsed after the afghan withdrawal and instead of making the point that joe biden botched the withdrawal and uh ian goes off calling it a surrender i mean it seems on purpose they said it was a bad play by trump and biden shouldn't have followed through instead And Ian goes off calling it a surrender. I mean, it seems on purpose. They said it was a bad play by Trump and Biden shouldn't have followed through. Instead of it was the right play by Trump and Biden intentionally, in my opinion, flubbed the whole thing. Everything. But this is the point.

This is what we the reason why I'll say intentionally now, in my opinion, is that at the time we were asking, biden screw this up on purpose to sour the idea of withdrawal in the minds of the american public the reality was you could withdraw from afghanistan without causing what what biden caused but now what i'm seeing is journalists say trump's plan was bad and biden is getting blamed for it no biden's plan was trump put the plan in place way earlier in the spring that's right that promise and there were plenty of opportunities to get started on that withdrawal and what happened was no i i hear what you're saying the biden administration refused to get started on the withdrawal and so they had to do it the last minute it's not just that it's they they abandoned bagram in the middle of the night without telling the afghani security forces they left all i think they turned it over to the to the

ana but the ana couldn't hold it in the middle of the night yeah the u.s forces pulled out without without notice and regular afghanis just looted the the buildings and uh uh there were uh helicopter pilots i think this is the new york times reporting that instantly lost logistics and didn't know what's going on landed the helicopters and ran away yeah because they were like there's no one anymore no i'm not talking there was it was just it was an insane insane move and i think what they wanted yes joe biden uh gets the negativity from it but they don't think joe i do not see joe biden being the candidate 2024 it makes literally no sense he's there he's their their sacrificial lamb their scapegoat now what they're going to do and they're starting to do it is saying

you see what happens when we withdraw it's chaos americans like we can't we have to stay and keep the troops overseas everything go ahead everything that was bad about the the uh the withdrawal from afghanistan was all tactics it was not none of it was policy like well no i disagree it was insane how they left all of the all of the weapons but now what we have is the taliban saying if you give me safe passage we'll destroy israel for you well they're not getting anywhere near israel check the map again put the map up i'm just saying that's that's that is the goal of the taliban now here's the thing though so look you make a great point about the narrative here about oh yeah see what happens when you ever leave anywhere?

Something bad happens, right? You're right. I don't believe that that was the reason that they did what they did, though. And I can explain why. Here's what they did. Okay. Trump, as she said, absolutely correctly, Libby said, Trump's deal was we leave by May 1st. We're out by May the 1st.

Okay. That's the start of the fighting season right everything's frozen over until the summertime essentially comes that's the start of the fighting season we're supposed to be gone by then biden came in and said well i don't want to live up to trump's deal i want it to be my afghan withdrawal not trump's afghan withdrawal and i don't want people to be able to say that i did what trump said i had to do and this and that so what did he do he kicked the can down the road for four months to september which remember they said we're gonna do it september 11th like what do they do just public relations

and you had in afghanistan they were like uh you kind of promised but here's the deal that you guys need to understand about the war okay the war was lost they had had to leave. Okay. Bush and Obama lost that war before Trump ever got there. The Taliban were ascendant. They controlled 60% of the country in the daytime. They controlled 80 or more percent of it at night. Part of it was the only way. The wind looks like they didn't know what the wind would look like. The policy was wrong.

Look, let's just stick with the withdrawal here for a second. If Biden was going to tell the truth to the American people about that war, he would have had to tell them, listen, we lost. The government that we built has no popular support. It cannot stand. The military that we built has no popular support. It cannot stand. We failed. We're leaving. but he couldn't do that right he had to say what did he say he said we won the war it was great we built a great government in Kabul which will surely last for years and we built this great magnificent Afghan national army

300,000 men strong and it's sure to last for years too that's why we can leave not because we blew it but because we did it everybody and so now we can go well by sticking to that lie that meant they had to leave all those weapons in the hands of the afghan national army that couldn't hold on to them and ended up turning them all over to the taliban and because they had to pretend that they had created a government worth its salt in Kabul, they couldn't abandon it and leave the city early or they would have been accused

of undermining the government and being the reason that it fell. So they had to stick with their lie that everything is fine. Meanwhile, the Taliban are walking right into Kabul because it's four months behind schedule that they're leaving.

And you know what else comes from this? With the Taliban getting access to a lot of these weapons, certainly they can't maintain a lot of it. So a lot of it just instantly falls apart. But with a lot of the guns and the materials that are available to just ground forces, it allows the U.S. to have a recurring problem and reason to be in the Middle East. It's also, they are also... Hard to get back to Afghanistan.

But it's not even necessarily about Afghanistan. It's the reporting that, or the rumors at least, that weapons left behind by the U.S. are being used by Hamas and other Iran-backed militants. Yeah, that was reporting from the Wall Street Journal. They were reporting about that in June, that that was likely to be happening. And there's also reports that the

technology has been reverse-engineered. And like that they're able to build you know we saw that video of them trying to fly a helicopter and they're like going in circles or whatever when it comes they can make ak-47 yeah when it comes to the small arms they're like there's there's they're building ak-47s and they're building at least small arms in the mountains of afghanistan between uh pakistan and afghanistan there's there's a whole arms market up there where building at least small arms in the mountains of Afghanistan between Pakistan and Afghanistan. There's a whole arms market up there where you can go and buy copies of fully automatic. It's like Louis Vuitton handbags, except AK-47s.

Let me tell you a story, though. Here's how my first book, that was this book, about all of the terror wars, became a different book, Fool's Errand, about Afghanistan. It's because I got stuck in Afghanistan. Because it's such a huge story. It's 20 years long. But the whole thing takes place east of Persia.

And so I knew people were going to be mad at me that it takes too long before we get to Iraq War II. So I ended up, you know what, fine. I'll just do a whole book about Afghanistan. I'll get back to the rest of the Middle East later. Because the rest of the whole story of the Bush and Obama years takes place in Mesopotamia and the Levant. What's going on in Afghanistan is, I hate to say it, but almost irrelevant in a sense. It's separate from the rest of the story.

Whereas the war in Iraq immediately bleeds to Libya, to Syria. And the rest of the story comes from Bush Jr.'s invasion of Iraq War II and 03. Do you think religion plays a role in high level military? I'm trying to be careful here. Obviously, religion plays a role to varying degrees. But do you think that actual like revelatory religious fanaticism is a component in the Air Force more than other places? But yes, I do. In the Air Force? Yes. You know, there's a guy named Mikey Weinstein who sued religious fanaticism is a component in the air force more than other places but yes i do i think in the air force yes you know there's a guy named mikey weinstein who sued about this over and over and over again about um you know religious freedom inside the services and it's particularly the air

force has been taken over at least this is my dad is 10 years old here but uh from what i'd heard before he had real holy rollers who believe that yeah nuclear war will help force jesus to come back and all this kind of stuff so there are people who really believe that with power and influence in this country that and it's it's it's tough because i think occam's razor is always there's money to be made for the military industrial complex there's power to be had there's gr grudges. There's generational conflict. But we are I bring this up because there are people pushing this rumor. And, you know, I think Jack kind of took it the wrong way when I said that there's videos of people claiming, you know, Israel is the blessed Holy Land members of

Congress saying this and many people who believe that there has to be this war for there to be the messianic era or whatever. I'm not talking about any of these anti-semitic conspiracy theories about world control dominance i'm talking about people who generally just believe the bible sure and the bible says that there'll be this great war there's been uh people have been taught there's a forward i think it was forward.com wrote about the red heifer that was born i'm not saying i believe any of that is true i'm wondering to what degree does a lot of people are very deeply religious i'm wondering to what degree does a lot of people are very deeply religious i'm wondering to what degree that influences their actions i i think it has i guess i would say in the in the councils of the highest levels of the pentagon and the white house i don't think that

they have that much influence but in the nation in the country overall they do and in the republican party and in the congress they absolutely do i mean look after september 11th colin powell told george bush just like james baker told his father your approval rating is through the roof we have to do a palestinian state now now is the time this is one of the main causes of terrorism against our country is the israeli suppression of the palestinians and bush was convinced and they started to do it wow and then what happened was tom delay the house majority whip from texas came to w bush and said you want to be a one-term president like your father because i'll turn every born-again evangelical christian in this country against you and you will be toast why do you think the uh why do you think the palestinians have for so long even going back to the founding of israel rejected a two-state solution even the one bill clinton proposed i

think in 92 that was really generous and pretty strong and we're skipping a lot we're skipping around a lot here i'm just asking your opinion on that okay i mean if you want to go back to the beginning of it it was because this what 11 of the population were claiming to own half the land more than half the land and everyone else was going to have to get the hell out of the way and they're violently there's been so violently massacring them and cleansing them from their homes and so they said no but then what happened i mean first of all well there's a lot of first of alls here but what happened was israel made a secret deal with the king of Jordan that he would keep the West Bank. And then at the end of the war, they had Egypt keep the Gaza Strip just so that the Palestinians could not have their state.

So quite contrary to this myth that Israel has done nothing but try to give the Palestinians independence all this time. I'm talking about the American proposals. There's been a lot of American proposals. Well, that was in 92, but you asked about 48. Right. I'm saying why have they rejected it all along? Like you're saying it's a different reason each time. Well, I mean, to skip from 48 to 92 is tough. And there's obviously a lot issue here. If you want to do, me do the the narrative in the broad stroke thing okay so so picture your map of israel and palestine that you have in your head right now in the 1948 war i mean forget morality and normative just descriptive okay israel won

the war and they cleansed 750 000 palestinians out of what we now call Israel proper within the 67 borders. Okay. And they pushed them into other nations across the Middle East and they pushed them into the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. And they took as far as West Jerusalem. Okay. okay now regardless of you know who you sympathize with or whatever just factually speaking that was sustainable what they created was sustainable in the sense that they created an 80 20 super duper majority jewish democracy had 80 jews 20 palestinian muslims and christians inside israel we're talking about now not the

occupied territories and this is after the six-day war this is after the um wasn't that 67 i'm talking before 67 oh i thought you were talking about 67 oh yeah no so 67 is next right okay so before 67 they had created essentially this 80 20 super super-duper majority Jewish democracy. Then in the 67 War, which was started by Israel, they claimed it was preemptive. Regardless, Israel won the war. The Palestinians, of course, had nothing to do with it. They were just stuck in the middle. But Israel beat Jordan and Egypt and Syria in that war.

And they took the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. And you could say, guys, that, look, they really de facto annexed all of Gaza and the West Bank then. Yeah, and Egypt was pissed, for sure. But they kept all the people. So unlike in 1948, where they drove all the people off their land and created this 80-20 super-duper majority Jewish state. They let everyone stay in their homes. Well, they couldn't force them all out. They actually did force 235,000 people out of their homes, more out of their homes.

But they still overall, they kept the people of the West Bank. So they're essentially kidnapped now. Right. So they were conquered were they kidnapped or they were let to stay where they lived well it's sort of the same thing in a sense i mean it's a turn of phrase here that i'm using but what i'm what i'm trying to tell you is that palestine the the palestinian people have had nothing like independence this whole time they've been under the occupation of israel first the under jordan and egypt and then under israel since 67 okay so when like ben shapiro for example or my friend here last night on twitter says well what would

we do if the mexicans were attacking us across our international border here tells well even then we'd do nothing because we are being attacked by cartels and we do nothing so we let seven we open the border for them we open the we kiss them on the cheeks what what well give them xboxes and tents we let them populate central park all right let's do the southern border in a minute um But so unlike in the Ben Shapiro analogy, which everybody's heard a million times, there is no international border here. See, most people, I'm not saying in this room, but I just mean in America, generally speaking,

if you say the Israelis and the Palestinians, well, it sounds like the Palestinians already have a country because everybody has a country and you just called them Palestinians. Well, it sounds like the Palestinians already have a country because everybody has a country and you just called them Palestinians so they must be from the country called Palestine, right? No. You got a bug right behind you on your chair there, buddy. Oh, yeah. Those little stink bugs, they do their thing.

He is actually cute. Friendly little guy. He was over here for a while. So what happened was the... Blasted him. He's alive, though. I just blew him off with the... So since 67, they've been under occupation. Now, David Ben-Gurion, the first prime minister, said,

this is crazy. We shouldn't do this. We should let them go right now. We don't want to essentially, in a way, again, accept my turn of phrase, import by expanding their territory. They're, in a sense, importing this massive population of Palestinian Muslims and Christians that they don't want. And so David Ben-Gurion... Jordan doesn't want them.

Egypt doesn't want them. No one wants them. Well, and that's partially because if the Israeli Jews are able to cleanse all of historic palestine of all their muslim population then they lose all their claim to their holy sites it's their land that they want to keep they were the ones who were there first they're the ones being cleansed from their land by the israelis well first means they were living there all along but we're like and for for generations back into antiquity when a bunch of russians and lithuanians and germans and new yorkers showed up and said the land belonged to them antiquity and yeah into yeah ancient times in fact here i'm glad this has come up because i

got a great quote for you here i've been talking about this lately but i had forgotten what the actual source was but what you're saying the actual source is David Ben-Gurion well you're yourself you're saying that who said Muslims always always had this had been there that's right because here's why because when the Muslims came and took over that land they did not cleanse the land of the people who lived there all and they did not invade it with a giant occupying force to replace them all they did was take them over and tax them and then the deal was if you convert to islam you get a tax cut basically you pay less and so the local

people all converted to islam by force and this and essentially but yeah by coercion right and so but wait but so these are the same people who are the descendants of the ancient hebrews and the source for this is david ben-gurion himself okay this is from sheldon richmond's book which we published at the institute and sheldon my good friend was raised jewish and zionist until he learned all of this stuff and And he wrote this great book coming to Palestine about it. And on page 11 and 12 here, he quotes David Ben-Gurion and his partner Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, who is Israel's second president and who was also a professional historian.

And they wrote a book in 1918 called Eretz Israel in the past and in the present. And in there, I won't read you the whole quote, but in there they describe in detail, Ben-Gurion says, the ancient Hebrews never left. So you can't take a farmer from his soil. They were there the whole time. And so what was happening was the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who had stayed in Palestine were being replaced by the descendants of the ancient Hebrews who'd gone off to Europe. And then their descendants came home as though there's no statute of

limitations. And 3000 years later, you can come and say, this is my land. You can't live here when, but if the, if the argument is one people conquered another people, then all you're arguing now is another people are conquering other people right like well that's right but but look i'm not

okay with any of it but i understand it happened and i you know i i wonder what the solutions would be well right so minimize casualties look i mean all we're trying to do here is describe the reality of the situation tim most of the time again if you listen to ben shapiro which many people do you would think there already was some kind of two-state solution and now the nation-state of palestine has sent its terrorist forces to attack and invade israel when that's not what happened what happened was essentially indians broke out of their reservation and attacked the people in town and that's not a fight between sovereigns that's a fight essentially between refugees in a prison camp versus the nation state that conquered them.

And when you at least explain. It's against the population because they did go after innocent people. That's right. Of course they did. And let's talk about that in just a second. But just overall, just the situation of who's attacking who and the relative power. Like if America went to war with Mexico, that wouldn't be a fair fight, but at least they have a national government

and a national army. That would be a fair fight, for sure. That's different than if we just start carpet bombing the Navajo reservation out in Arizona. I mean, imagine some Indians in the reservation out west going to town and massacre a thousand Anglos. Do we carpet bomb the reservation or we find the people who are responsible and their commanders if the navajo massacred a thousand americans

off the reservation yeah it'd be federally occupied what would we do wipe out the reservation no no we would not even no we would not we should no we would yeah we would no we would be occupied we would find the individuals responsible and the men who sent them and we would hold them to account. A thousand Americans? They would be prosecuted in criminal court. We killed a million people in Iraq. Yeah.

Because it's September 11th. We massacred everybody at Waco and Ruby Ridge for far less. There's not an endorsement of it. And look, they killed a hell of a lot of indians that wounded me too and in second wounded knee however okay well let me rephrase it would you support would you support carpet bombing an indian reservation over an atrocity when you know good and damned well that the fbi and the marshal service can handle this no you're gonna send in the military and and you know you're gonna kill innocent people if you're saying that if you're saying that the Navajo Nation which

struggles to have electricity and refrigeration just to afford like the people of Gaza no like the people of the Navajo Nation the Navajo Hopi Reservation right like there's solar panel structures to keep refrigerators going to make sure that they have insulin, the insulin stays cold. If you're saying that these people, if they, if like there was a, if there was a militia to the point where they had a militia and they decided to murder a thousand Americans, I think that would, first of all, that would be really shocking. And I would think very long and hard about the the structure of the um you know

well that's a great point you would wonder what they were so upset about no i wouldn't worry what they were upset about but i i would well maybe hillary clinton sold their uranium to the russians and they all got cancer and they're actually upset and got something to fight about let me let me let me literally answer the question instead of just going back and forth. If the Navajo Nation mounted a raid that killed 1,000 Americans, it's not some arbitrary question of carpet bombing them. It's a question of military capabilities, what we expect in terms of future actions against us,

and what amounts to justice. I would be quite concerned with a carpet bomb on the Navajo Reservation because they don't have support from Iran or they don't have access to justice. I would be quite concerned with the carpet bomb on the Navajo reservation because they don't have support from Iran or they don't have access to rockets. They're not produced. We're not being bombed by them consistently. Rockets aren't launching out of various areas. We don't need to do that. Yes, the marshals and U.S. forces could go in there. Even if they were armed with rockets. I mean, look, we call them rockets because you don't dare call them missiles because they're not real missiles and they didn't get shipped from Iran. They made them out of water pipes right there. These are, you know, barely amount to Katyusha rockets. The fact, look, the reason it's so important that we talk about the difference between, you know, whether we're talking about a sovereign nation or an Indian reservation where you're supposed to take from that is everybody in this country knows that the great white father back east Joe Biden and his armed forces have one

billion times the strength and the power of any Indians on any reservation and that if they did break out and commit some terrible atrocity that Uncle Sam ought to be able to negotiate a peaceful solution from here. And again, the individuals responsible would be prosecuted in court. It wouldn't be a war. They would go to court and then they'd be hanged. Michael Reinald. Was he given his day in court? Who's that?

The guy who shot Aaron Danielson in Portland. I don't know. I mean, the Branch Davidians didn't get their day in court either,'s that? The guy who shot Aaron Danielson in Portland. I don't know. I mean, the branch civilians didn't get their day in court either, but they should have. Should have. They should have. I do not expect the U.S. government to be honest and bear integrity when dealing with these things. Did people of Iraq get a fair trial after 9-11?

The U.S. just decided to lie to wage war overseas, which resulted in untold deaths. And we're still pissed off about it. It was it was an insane move that we went to Afghanistan in Iraq over 9-11. 9-11 was an atrocity that this country and for this country. Everybody knows that. And 3000 people lost their lives. The stories that come out of 9-11 are their stories of great heroism, which inspire. But the whole day was just so horrifying and the reaction was just untold more dead with lies the u.s did

not have a fair day in court i i fully expect evil actions uh it should should something like that occur i wish it was dude you're talking about a bunch of egyptians and saudi nationals who hijack planes working for a foreign terrorist group. Right, and then we went to war in two countries. No, we're talking about Indians on the reservation because we're talking about Israel and the Palestinians. That's not the same as al-Qaeda attacking us on an international jihad.

We're talking about, look, the point about bringing up the Navajo is not to impugn the Navajo. It's to point out that they are already lit. They're already beaten. They live in a concentration camp under the total control of the United States government. But they can leave. Hold on.

Well, no. Look, it's not a perfect analogy, but I'm just saying the relative power versus the Indians on the res versus the U.S. federal government means if something very terrible happens, the onus should be on the American national authorities to resolve it peacefully from there, not to call in the army to wipe out a bunch of innocent men, women, and children. And look at the history of Israel and Palestine here where they've had problems with terrorism from the leftists from the nationalists from the Islamists the whole time and how do they handle it they went in they get them one at a time it's only since Netanyahu that they do these

massive bombing campaigns you can go in again we're talking about a reservation you can go in and pick these guys off one at a time so you think the response to from the hamas attack would be for israel to do like strategic incursion with forces to remove hamas yes they should listen to what he said they should i don't care about that listen what you just said was that america got all emotional and did a bunch of stupid wrong things after september 11th israel ought to listen to you and they ought to not do that they ought to be smart and look i wrote an article a couple of weeks ago and and we do need to get into why netanyahu likes hamas so much and supported them in palestine uh because that's a huge part of this okay because we get we keep getting distracted off our points and probably that's mostly my fault but um uh and

hell now i forgot what i was going to say about that talking about the you were you were leading to the comment uh the the link you sent which is something that i was oh the reaction yes reaction the reaction okay so linsky stuff so look okay yes you guys are familiar with sololinsky the leftist radical community organizer guy right okay page 74 of rules for radicals says that in all asymmetric political action the action is in the reaction of the opposition yeah right so like bin laden has a group of 400 bandits he's trying to take on the superpower how do you do it you get the superpower to kill itself right right you give them an opportunity to go wild and do something self-destructive okay in this case hamas was trying and probably there are people who are siding with the palestinians who might not want

to hear this part of it the reason that hamas committed the atrocity that they committed you mean on october 7th yes on october 7th which by the way an extended family member of mine was abducted and murdered by Hamas in that atrocity. Condolences. Okay. And by the way, my wife almost would have died on September 11th, except she was homesick at her parents' house. But she had an office in the tower and would have been killed on September 11th. Okay. So I don't have any love or sympathy for these armed Islamist murderers.

That's exactly what they are. Okay. But they're not just devils. and they're not just angry children and muhammad didn't come from hell to give them instructions to do a bad thing these are human men and they're fighting about politics so why why'd they do it so why they did it was to provoke netanyahu into doing exactly what he's doing now carpet bombing the gaza strip slaughtering gaza and palestinian civilians by the thousands that this would result in a massacre of their own people that's exactly right that's right wait wait wait let me finish now real quick one point for your question of course

hamas knew right now motivations aside there's no other reaction not just they knew not just that not just they knew this is what they wanted to happen absolutely because with the reaction then comes all the counter reactions right so what how we start the show at the top of the show today. America hits Iranian sites in Syria because they had sent drones after our guys in Syria because of what Israel is doing in Gaza, right? At the Lebanese border with Hezbollah, you got so far just pot shots going off back and forth. But that could quickly escalate. Wait, wait, wait. Now, every shite militia in Iraq has to take a stand. The Ayatollah in Tehran gets to get up there

and beat his chest. Now, every Sunni king in Arabia, all of the American sock puppets, Mohammed bin Salman and Mohammed bin Zayed in Saudi and in UAE, they all have to take a stand. Are they going to be silent because they're good little sock puppets of the empire?

Or are they going to agree with 100% of the public opinion of the people in their countries? This could destabilize the whole region. It's already... Remember when I was here a year and a half ago, we talked about the Abraham Accords. And what was the purpose of the Abraham Accords? This was the netanyahu

doctrine that said we can with enough american tax money we can make peace well not peace but we can finally permanently normalize relations with bahrain ua not bahrain, with It was UAE. Yes, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Saudi, Sudan, and Morocco. That's right. And we can do this without making peace with the Palestinians. That's right. And so And that made the Palestinians pissed off and so they took a couple of years to plan this attack.

That's right. And then look what happened. They got the reaction that they wanted and now all of the Abraham Accords are in jeopardy. Right. And look, let's let's get real honest about here about this even if you absolutely love israel and i don't know any reason why not to it's a land full of civilians i love them just as much as everybody else okay you wouldn't worse you wouldn't you would not wish Netanyahu on the people of Israel. He has been the longest serving prime minister in Israeli history, longer than David Ben-Gurion. Okay?

They call him King Bibi. And so, like, think if September 11th had happened in Bill Clinton's third term. His approval rating would have gone down, right? Bush was off the hook because he'd only been on the job for eight measly months before that attack happened on his watch, right? This is happening in Netanyahu's fifth term, okay? This is his policy finally come to fruition. It was called the Netanyahu Doctrine. And the Netanyahu Doctrine said, unlike Yitzhak Rabin,

who one of his fans assassinated in 1995, unlike Yitzhak Rabin, who said, we want to demonize Iran so that we can negotiate and make peace with the Arabs, including the Palestinians. The Netanyahu Doctrine said, no, we'll make peace with the, demonize iran make peace with the arabs but not with the palestinians and you can hear him just three weeks ago in his united nations

address he explains exactly the thinking behind this he says they always said that we could never um uh normalize relations with the rest of the nations of the region. Uh, and, and, uh, therefore then have peace with the Palestinians, unless we make peace with the Palestinians first and give up a Palestinian state first. And only then will we be able to get along,

but we showed them and we're so smart. And we made these deals without, um, giving up a Palestinian state. And he said, but we will have peace. And what he's essentially saying between the lines is, we're going to have the peace

of total victory here. The Palestinians will get nothing and they'll learn to like it. They'll never have independence and they'll never have freedom. I got some trivia for you. And then this happened two weeks after he said that.

What is it? Or one week after he said that at the UN. Look at me, I got away with it everybody called for i got i got i got some trivia for you okay what is what does this mean that's peace this is victory right but the the origin of this sand sign is the same thing f you that it's making the v for victory and so what happens is after the battle when they hold up

the two fingers we call it peace why because you killed all your enemies yeah the piece of desolation the peace has been achieved we've won and so when people are like peace out the origin of that is after your enemy was killed you held up the v for victory i always thought that this was this was f you because the archers would hold up two fingers because when they when caught, they would cut off one of the fingers so they couldn't pull the... That's where this comes from. Which people now say peace, but the peace is... It's peace after you win.

So this brings us back to the clean break, okay? Because what was the purpose of getting rid of Saddam so that we can weaken hezbollah it was so that we don't have to abide by the oslo agreement and negotiate an independent palestinian state but if we screw over the palestinians while we still have hezbollah on our northern border then that's an extra pressure and so the whole point of the clean break strategy was we need to get america to go to war in iraq for us so that we don't have to give justice to the palestinians let me i wanted to ask uh when you mentioned hamas news is going to happen do you think they knew i mean you're outlining this this this story of dominoes falling over which could lead to world war three and the first thing i thought was if you are hamas

in gaza you're thinking world war three is is is our only path to any kind of change well look again i think world war three is a little hyperbolic i don't foresee russia getting involved although it could happen something like that we're already in a massive proxy war against russia right now as we all know which is uh horrifying and terrifying um but they're not that close with the ayatollah you know russia and iran they have their own tensions going back and they've been getting along okay and and iran has been sending drones for the russian war effort and that kind of thing but they don't have like a treaty of alliance where russia would go to war spreads to Lebanon and possibly Iraq.

But I really think that the Americans and the Ayatollahs guys, too, have got to be cautioning him. And I think the American military has got to be telling Joe Biden how badly they do not want to fight Iran. You put that map up earlier there. A country's, what, three, four times the size of Afghanistan? Afghanistan is the size of Texas, okay? People don't understand this, too. That's why I say a geography lesson. And this is mountains, too.

Topography lesson counts, too. This isn't flat desert like Iraq. You cannot win here, man. Mountains, massive, with massive air defense. The U.S. military doctrine is defined by its air superiority. I don't know how much I believe that there is a war with Iran coming, like whether cooler heads will prevail or not. But I strongly believe that if it does happen,

the U.S. will justify using tactical nuclear weapons because they'll they'll want to take out the oil reserves they'll want to take because that's what lindsey graham's after or they'll use moabs as big as they possibly can if they don't want to get on they don't want to have what do you make of iran having um trained hamas fighters well look i mean they have a a real interest in disrupting the situation in Israel and Palestine. I mean, Iran was training Hamas fighters before they were even Hamas, like back in the late 80s, when Hamas was essentially forming in Lebanon with Hezbollah. So, well, no.

Hezbollah was training Hamas. That's different. And so was the Iranians. Yeah, and they're part of the muslim brotherhood and i want to recommend to you and to everyone listening a great book by robert dreyfus called devil's game how the united states helped unleash fundamentalist islam so it's the fault that the yes yes yes because america inherited all of the european and the japanese world empires after world war ii america is the dominant force in the middle east even though we're the middle part of north

created the people that hate us now is that i'm just trying to understand what you're saying not not created in the like oversimplified sense but yes the enemy in the cold war was first the commies and second the nationalists and who's opposed to both the commies and the nationalists the islamists and so america and britain and saudi arabia spent billions spreading fundamentalist Islam throughout the region. And not just the Wahhabism of Saudi, but the Muslim Brotherhood essentially was meant to disrupt all secular politics in the region for generations and did so. That was the purpose of it. And that was why Americaica backed the muslim brotherhood that was a huge part of the reason of course that america and saudi worked together to send a bunch of guys proto al-qaeda guys to fight

the soviets in afghanistan in the 1980s which is where that's right well because see there was the afghan mujahideen but then there was the arab afghan army and these were mercenaries again look at the map all of these guys are arabs then you have Persia. And then you have the Afghans who are Hazaras and Tajiks and Uzbeks and Pashtuns, right? They're not Arabs at all. So they sent, they got all these Arabs to come and sent them to fight in Afghanistan, including the guys who were the leaders of what became Islamic Jihad and Al-Qaeda that ended up turning against the United States. And in fact, most people don't know this, but throughout the 1990s, when Al-Qaeda was already attacking the United States, Bill Clinton kept supporting them anyway. He supported them in Bosnia and in Kosovo and in Chechnya. And you might remember when Vladimir Putin declared war on Ukraine two and a half or a year and a half ago in his declaration of war, he said, and I like the way he did this too, because he knew it was going to sound like conspiracy stuff. So he phrased it like this.

Come on, let's be adults about this. We know what you and Britain were doing in chechnya right that was true america was supporting bin ladenite head choppers suicide bomber murderers against the russians brooklyn i mean well and and and his men uh were essentially divided right there was this this they were motivated to attack the united states by one are stationing a troops in Saudi Arabia to in order to bomb Iraq from 1990 all the way through. Okay, through the entire Clinton years and then support for Israel and their in their occupations of Palestine and at that time of southern Lebanon as well as support for all the dictatorships in the region. So even though Bill Clinton was backing them in Kosovo and in Chechnya, they were still coming for us anyway. He was using them, but he wasn't buying their loyalty. And so I'm not like a 9-11 truth here saying the CIA had them attack us. That's not right. But what happened was they were too clever by half,

just like Netanyahu. they think they're so smart we're gonna back these terrorists and then i'll tell you i got i got these great uh quotes for you guys okay this one is from the american pentagon in the years before september 11th they said terrorism is a small price to pay for being a superpower okay and what they were thinking was, come on, somebody sets off a truck bomb at an embassy in Africa or something. Who cares?

We get to rule the world. Okay? Here's a quote just like that, Libby, that you can find from Benjamin Netanyahu addressing the leaders of his party, the Likud. And he's talking about anyone who wants to thwart

the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas in Gaza. Because they will never deal. But then he said, we control the height of the flame. Right? blame right it's that same imperial arrogance of the bill clinton years that we can use these people to keep things the way we want them whether to fight our enemies or to divide and conquer our subject peoples but then what are they gonna do right in fact one more quote was from a female israeli soldier who warned her superior officers that Hamas is training.

They're obviously training hard. They're preparing something. And her boss told her they're punks. They're punks. They won't do anything. NBC Boston is reporting that the main, the Lewiston main shooter, Robert Carr, has been located

and is dead. Oh, damn. Where is he? All good. I don't know. I'm just looking at it right now. The Lewiston, Maine shooter, Robert Card, has been located and is dead. Oh, damn. Where is he? All good. I don't know. I'm just looking at it right now. The man suspected in Wednesday's massacre that killed 18 people in Lewiston, Maine, has been found dead, sources told NBC Boston Investigators Friday night. Robert Card was the subject of a days-long manhunt that followed mass shootings

at the just-in-time recreation bowling alley in Schmemegans. Bar and Grill. Schmegies. Schmegies, all right. You're from New Hampshire. You should know how to pronounce things. It's literally Schmemegans. I know, it's very weird.

It's Schmegies. Anyways, specific details are not available immediately, but the source told NBC10 Boston investigators that there is no longer a threat in Maine as Card has been located and is deceased and that is literally just popped up like five minutes ago i just wanted to say you know because we we talk a lot about this deep history with the middle east and u.s involvement and it kind of feels like uh a lot of conversations i've had i'm always just like someone will make a bunch of points about well there's you, Libby says these people hate us.

And then you're talking about these these operations. And I'm just like, would we would we not benefit from not being involved? Like, is it better for us? Yes. We just totally not be involved. Hundred percent. And so when I hear a lot of like moral arguments, well, like what they're doing this and they're doing this. And then, you know, the Israel Palestine stuff specifically, I'm kind of like, my response is, I'm America.

I don't know why we're arguing with the morality of foreign nations that are in a generational conflict when we should be helping our people here. The answer is because America is the world empire, Tim, and this is a huge contradiction, right? This is the new world. Our ancestors came here so they could mind their own business and be free, and yet America came out on top at the end of the second world war the rest of the industrialized world was burnt to the ground

and so america had what half the gdp of the planet and then they took full advantage and they created a world empire they justified it in the name of containing the soviet union and then when the soviet union ceased to exist 30 years ago, what'd they do? Quit and go get a real job? No. They went and they expanded to the Middle East. They expanded into Eastern Europe.

And they picked a fight with Al-Qaeda and they picked a fight with Russia. And now here we are. Same as they expanded, by the way. You guys are such China hawks on here. But who started the China pivot? That was Barack Hussein Obama and Hillary Clinton who said now's time to pick a fight with China. you guys are such china hawks on here but who started the china pivot that was barack hussein obama and hillary clinton who said now's time to pick a fight with china that was their policy

i just want to you know my my view and it's probably naive it's probably ignorant whatever but my view is a tremendous opportunity of the fall of soviet union for trade agreements and not war right to say hey we're you know you look at what's going on in Eastern Europe and we keep hearing from the establishment press and from the neocon neolib uniparty that it's an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine and Russia. Oh, come on. NATO expansion.

That's my book is called Provoked. It's about how they provoked it. But at the very least, if you want to make the argument that, you know, I was in Ukraine at the start of the protests which which eventually turned into the ousting of yanukovych and in the city i talked to many random people what did i find they were very pro pro eu and the when i talked to them they say that what i was generally told by a lot of ukrainians was you know russia wants to create this uh federal this trade union. They want Ukraine to be a part of it.

Ukraine, many Ukrainians don't trust Russia, obviously, because Soviet Union wasn't even that long ago. So a lot of the older folks are really concerned. And entering the EU is a major economic lift up and the Schengen zone, a lot of people want to move. And so that's where we're going. That is all geopolitical dispute and conflict, which results in escalated conflict.

The idea that there's no provocation, what the media keeps saying, is just absurd. As long as our military alliances are expanding in a region, there is cause for conflict. Right. You're absolutely right. And look, this isn't just hindsight, okay? This is what all the paleo-conservatives said 30 years ago. Pat Buchanan and Scott McConnell and all the guys who were like the refugees from the george hw bush republican party at that time ron paul ran for president in 1988 saying we need to completely back out of the old world all together and was absolutely right and

and you know what happened hw bush took full advantage he He lied to the Russians. He knew the plan was to expand NATO and they lied to the Russians and made them believe that they wouldn't expand NATO just to get them out of the way. You know what I love? You're obviously made lied us into a rock war one as well. You're obviously familiar with the liberal economic order and plainly stating, is it after World War II, the fears of expanded war and nuclear annihilation led to this idea of the liberal economic order, which is a soft way of saying American empire. Military bases everywhere, the American world police. And it's an impossibility. Naturally, what you're doing is creating something that becomes the massive target you the u.s never had the capability of suppressing the rise of any other economic power though they try it doesn't happen and now we're staring at the fourth turning

world war three whatever you want to call it and it's what my favorite part is you get to the point where you get hw bush saying what was his quote we can begin to see a new world order now you get to the point where you get hw bush saying what was his quote we can begin to see a new world order now you get a bunch of people complaining about the idea of the new world order which literally is a reference to an expansion upon the cfr the liberal economic order into a new version of it which is american world police etc the media runs out full speed screaming the conspiracy theory of the new world order and what i think happens is a lot of people fall victim to this. There's a legitimate concern over over powerful interests internationally, corporate interests and their and their their vassals in government to create and maintain the liberal economic order and their new version of it what happens then is the media because these people are easily they're stupid and they're evil for a lot not every single one but a lot of them

they will take the legitimate story of the liberal economic order pull the most absurd claims off the internet create this psychotic conspiracy theory and then say anybody who's saying this believes the crazy conspiracy theory yeah to try and discredit the idea that there are people who are actually calmly and rationally saying you know that thing you've been doing for a long time about trying to set up military bases everywhere to be a world police i think it's a bad idea that's going to get us all killed they say what he actually believes that lizard people have set up a base in the denver airport and he's insane don't listen to him right look you're right and look the the new world.W. Bush said it, what he meant was the era of the American empire and no one can oppose us now.

As he put it, what we say goes. And when they say now, they call it the liberal rules-based international order. Again, it's the American empire. But the conspiracy theory is the opposite, actually. The conspiracy theory is that ultimately they're going to create a one-world federal government under the UN that will then conquer the United States and we'll have Chinese troops everywhere and it'll be like Red Dawn and we'll all be enslaved.

And this is the thing which it's good for getting right wingers interested in foreign policy and how dangerous all this stuff can be. Because, look, ultimately, you know, the John Birchers were the big pushers of the new world order conspiracy and the lesson that they were preaching basically was the only way to destroy america is to turn it into an overextended empire now from their point of view it was all deliberate it was all treason to bring us down but forget that just stick to the point the only way to bring down america is to turn it into an overextended world empire and you could carpet bomb us with h-bombs but then there's nothing to take over otherwise the only way to do it is to drive our national debt up till the dollar breaks the roman empire which is what we're doing right now so it doesn't have to be a conspiracy it's bad policy it's suicide it it we a lot of

people like to talk about the roman empire and what caused it to be ripped apart. And there are similarities there. History doesn't repeat, it rhymes. And so a lot of people are drawing parallels to all these other historic events. And some people be like, no, no, no, it's not like this one. It's like this one. It's not the Roman Empire. It's more like, you know, the Bolsheviks in Russia. And I'm like, guys, it's a little bit of all of them.

And that's a big problem. Yeah, it's us. Hey, look, so let's get back to talking about the palestinians here for a second because you know people use hamas and palestinians interchangeably here like all these people are guilty of the things that hamas did but i mean tim the reason i'm here right now is because i'm still not over waco okay oh dude i went there i went there last year so my dad's from but but like if according to the logic of the people who want to bomb Gaza right now, I'm responsible for Waco because somehow I didn't prevent Bill Clinton from becoming president. And now it's okay to kill me and my family because of the things that Bill Clinton did.

That was the logic that Osama bin Laden invoked in his letter to America in 2002. He said, you pay your taxes, you vote in elections, and boy, especially you Americans, always bragging and boasting about how self-governed you are. There's more nuance than that. So then he said he had the right to kill us, which was in fact, he was parroting Bill Clinton and Madeleine Albright, who said that they had the right to kill innocent Iraqis in order to force them to rise up and overthrow Saddam Hussein. It's the same sick morality.

We think the price is worth it, as Madeleine Albright said, to kill innocent people to do what we want, to get what we want. I suppose the big question then becomes, what do we do? That's why I brought up the maybe we should... We as Americansicans first and foremost the united states should adopt an absolutely non-interventionist foreign policy 100 100 and that means telling the israelis you guys are on your own and this goes back to a point that you raised i think before we went on the air what happens to israel without the israel be fine

without the united states israel will be better off without the United States. As you guys have noticed, everything America touches turns to fire. And I just didn't say a bad word. I almost did. Would be better off. Israel would be better off without the U.S.? Yes.

Because, look, they're plenty well enough armed to take on any neighboring nation state, which they're friends with Jordan and friends with Egypt. They bombedria with impunity once or twice a month for a decade straight now hezbollah has enough of a force probably to keep them out i mean not in a full-scale war in a full-scale war israel completely destroy them

but hezbollah has no real offensive force that threatens israel so they're perfectly safe. Right? Who's perfectly safe? Israel is perfectly safe. From foreign nation states, I'm saying now. That was the question. Right. I'm just trying to clarify. But by having America there, it's like being a banker on Wall Street and knowing that Alan Greenspan

is going to bail you out. Right? It's called a moral hazard in economics. They called it the Greenspan put. Right? And what happens is if you're a banker and you know that the fed is going to bail you out then you can make all kinds of lousy loans and it doesn't matter because you're going to be made whole it's the same for like a bratty little kid in the neighborhood who likes to be a bully and pick fights because he knows he has an older brother that's going to bail him out if he gets into a fight with somebody that he can't handle. And so this is the same kind of situation with Israel. If America did not, well, look at just the current situation. If Joe Biden didn't sail

aircraft carriers right in there and tell Hezbollah, you better not think about it, and tell the government in Iraq, you better keep your militias under control and all that. Israel would already have to scale back their ambition here, right? By showing up- So Israel is perfectly safe or Israel would have to scale back that? What do you mean? Yes, I'm saying that the more violence that Israel commits and over the decades, the more

they refuse to deal in good faith with the people in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, the Palestinian people, the worst situation that they're in. The fact, Libby, that we're having this conversation in 2023 means that Netanyahu's policy is a terrible failure, 100%, no different than if it had been Bill Clinton's third term on September 11th. What should Israel do right now? And what should they have done on october 8th well on october 8th i think they were still chasing the the terrorists back into gaza but look right now they have the place completely surrounded okay they've called up 300 000 reserves this is essentially i have an israeli

friend again an army veteran who fought in the 2006 war he says this is like waco right now they're completely surrounded who is the gaza gaza is they're completely under siege and yes hamas is bad and yes koresh is bad but there's also a bunch of innocent people in there and so just wait them out you got all the time in the world there's no reason that you have to go in there like this and you know daryl cooper are you are you guys familiar with martyr made the podcast of course this is my good friend daryl cooper he's so smart about this we've had him on i'm pretty sure he talked about how for decades for decades the way that the israelis dealt with

terrorism in the territories, where they go in there and pick them off one at a time. You don't have to do a big war like this. How do they kill Sheikh Yassin? They just found him in his car and dropped one bomb on him. I'm not saying that was okay, but I'm saying all other things being equal, the Israelis can pick off the leadership of Hamas one at a time. No problem.

Because again, this is not some foreign nation. This is an Indian reservation. It's under their control. This is where I always come back to. It's like, I see you guys, we're having an argument over a foreign nation's capabilities of defense and I'm just like, you want to talk about America? I'm just curious what

he was... No, I know. I'm not casting shade. I I'm saying I think a lot of This debate that ends up in politics Reverts back to the normative position of We As the United States are concerned And involved in foreign wars And I'm kind of like you want to talk about

Burma Myanmar Right I don't yeah because we're not in on that one Right right right Let's not be in on any of them. That's right. Look, I totally agree with that. Myanmar is so closed. It's hard to get any information out of Myanmar.

Since 1948, hundreds of thousands of people have died in the region, 12,000 this year. Talk about ethnic cleansing. Nobody cares. So there's one thing that I want to bring up. Because we're not involved in it. Right. Well, not only that. It's not just that.

Tim, this goes to a point that you make a lot you you frequently say that the left doesn't have an ideology that that's coherent and to some degree i think you're right but i really think that the left broadly is is just anti-west right they're anti-capitalist they're anti-america and any idea anything that's going on that is pushing back against western society which is why like the people that are pro-palestine that are very anti-israel when they're if they're if they're leftists the reason is because israel is a is a ostensibly a democracy in a western style country and so it falls in line with the pushback against the west and the whole decolonization

thing i also think it's okay but it's because you want to destroy the united states from within and so we have foreign influence through social media and algorithms sure yeah and and you mentioned they're all anti-west i'm like well we're we're being gutted from within guys we started this show with a massive protest at what grand central station no i should of american jews who are against this stuff i'm not saying everyone i'm not saying i'm not saying everyone is scott i'm saying that the people that are that are like i'll tell you i'll tell you phil look there i'm not pushing back against what you said no no that's fine i was just saying i just want a shout out to uh alad elahu who's covering this right now.

We're texting her now. Elad is our in-house Bolton bro, neoconservative. He is, but he does a really great job asking questions. He doesn't attack people. He asks them honestly what they think and believe and lets them answer. That's cool. And, you know, he's down here covering it. We're big fans of Elad's work.

People ought to ask themselves, cause look, these Jews, almost all American Jews are basically like center left liberals. They're not leftist, communist, revolutionary, hate America, whatever,

this and that. They're liberal Democrats, almost all of them, right? Like 85, 90% or something like that. They don't want to destroy Western civilization. The radicals,

the reason they're sticking up, I forget the college kids don't mean anything. We're're let's not spend another minute talking about college kids tonight we're talking about what actually matters in the world here okay and what's happening here is these jews are sticking up for the palestinians because they're being treated unfairly right if you go back to england versus ireland you'd see English stick up for the Irish. You didn't see the Irish take the English's side. Why not? Well, because Ireland wasn't occupying England.

It was the English who were the occupying power and who were brutally oppressing innocent civilians. And so you'd have English from time to time saying, geez, guys, this isn't right. Why would you have millions of american jews opposed to the system in israel right now well a bunch of it's because it's wrong funded by the same well funded nothing same groups that fund the splc and a bunch of other heavy maybe yeah the jva is maybe but you know what what it really is is america so fun what it is is american jews are causes american jews are liberals and they believe in civil rights and the fact is the palestinians have no civil rights and no civil liberties whatsoever they would be slaves except the israelis don't want them they just want

rid of them but they have no rights at all and these people know that that is wrong and they're upset about it i also had shabbat with rashida Tlaib after she said that she gets what a warm fuzzy feeling when she thinks about the Holocaust. Is that what she said? She said something like that. She said something very similar. I can find it. I am not a fan. I'm a fan of the sentiment of we don't want civilian deaths.

But I just keep coming back to the, you know i i would refer i refer to it as israel derangement syndrome because for some reason this cause for a lot of people is paramount despite not being us despite all the other conflicts in the world tim as you know we're implicated in every bit of this our our government is implicated in every bit of this. People do not get as mad about Sudan. I wrote a book about the Iranian Revolution, the Iran-Iraq War, the 80s Afghan War, Iraq War I, Iraq War I and a half, Iraq War II, Somalia, Libya, Syria, and Yemen. And there's some Palestine in here. And I'm writing a book about Russia right now. And why are 16-year-olds chanting in the hallways of their school free free palestine do you think these kids who cares i mean well i think

i think the media abolished government school then i already want that this is my point why why why does it always like i'm gonna when i was a kid we said kill them all nuke baghdad whatever my point is worse i'm i'm just continually at the point where I'm like, y'all can go protest for any country in the world you want. I don't care. They're not us. In Marjorie Taylor Greene's resolution that she brought before the House to have Rashida Tlaib censored, censured.

She said, Tlaib said the Holocaust gave her a calming feeling. Okay. I want an original source on that. I watched the video like she actually said that are you serious i swear to god there's a video clip of it she said it it was never even heard of that she wasn't like it was it was it was in it was a broader context but it was in 2019 yeah the the overall point was she's like i have a college i had a calming feeling i've never voted for a Democrat in my life.

So I don't give a damn about that. I did. And then she said she stood behind her comments. Look, let me tell you guys something. College communists are bad on everything. College communists are bad. College communists are bad on everything. The squad is bad on everything.

But so what does that have to do with what we're really talking about here? Right? on everything the squad is bad on everything but so what does that have to do with what we're really talking about here right like look why would it be that george hw bush and james baker 30 years ago thought it was so important to try to negotiate a palestinian state why is it that 20 years ago is that there should be a palestinian state yes. So maybe that's why they, maybe they have the same reasons as you for wanting to establish it. That's what I'm saying. Right, so they've been trying for a very long time. Right, and so this is what I'm saying is people act like, I'm paraphrasing, I'm plagiarizing Martyr Made here, okay? He says people act like the Palestiniansestinians are this volcano like

everything is fine and then every once in a while this volcano erupts and there's this violence but the thing is everything's not fine the thing is these people are under total occupation for longer than the soviets occupied eastern europe they have no rights whatsoever that is why james baker was willing to go to the mat to try to force a Palestinian state 30 years ago. That's why Colin Powell went to the mat and lost 20 years ago. And what happened was the neoconservatives, which who are the neoconservatives? They're the vanguard of the Israel lobby is who they are. And they convinced Bush that the road to Damascus, the road to Jerusalem

runs through Baghdad. First, we do Iraq War II. Then we're in the position of strength to force the Palestinians to bow down to our wishes. How did that work out? Did you, I'm not going to answer. We got to go to Super Chats,

but I want you to finish that thought. I don't know if you were done. No, go ahead. We're going to go to Super Chats. Powell lost. So smash that thought. I don't know if you were done. No, go ahead. We're going to go to super chats. How lost? So smash that like button, subscribe to this channel, share the show with your friends.

Friday night, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to read your super chats, which of course are, oh, it's Israel, Palestine. So contentious. I'm so excited. Clint Torres says, howdy people.

Tim, today you gave a masterclass in dealing with the delusional. I swear you deserve an honorary PhD in clinical psychology. This morning was an awesome conversation with Cenk Uygur. And for those that watched, you probably noticed there was one point of contention when I began discussing George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery. Cenk got very heated about that one, did not want to hear any arguments or points that it was racist. And I felt we're better off focusing on solutions and ideas and try to pull away from what I thought was devolving things into an irrational WWE style drama fight.

But that was probably the only point at which I felt like it got to that point. I see a lot of people are saying that I'm very patient or whatever. And it's a mix. There's a lot of people who want me to just tell him he's wrong no matter what, Every single step of the way whenever I think he's wrong. But the purpose of a show like this is I'm interviewing the guy and asking him what he thinks. So he can try and articulate it and I can get the best honest understanding. But more importantly, when Cenk comes out and starts saying that it's racist to bring up the facts of the case on Ahmaud Arbery. That's for you guys to watch. It's not to see me come out and say something like, let's, you know, it's not for me to argue with him.

Like, no, how dare you say that? You know, you think you can come here. That serves nobody. That's just people eating popcorn and laughing at a fight. I want you to hear what what Jenks argument is. And then you figure out if you agree or disagree. And I think often when it comes to a lot of these arguments, they'll say things that you'll find. Hey, that's actually not a well thought out thing to say.

Or maybe you agree with them. But that's the point is to have them say it. There was a- That's a really smart point to make. Well, conservatives are trying to get this pro-Palestine event canceled in Texas. And I immediately tweeted like, no way. If you are concerned these people are pro-Hamas,

whatever, let them speak. Right. And then take those videos and share them. Let them have their event. Like with the drag queen stuff. You mean with kids? No, not with kids when they do that they do the big protests or whatever yeah all right all right but anyway we'll read some more uh rj mcdougalheim says damn so close wrath says maybe maybe maybe not you guys were not first matthew hammond says can lauren

southern do a documentary on covid lockdowns and businesses that closed call it non-essential oh that would be cool one of the people she interviews should be the wife of the former guest gary uh nerdroddick i can't pronounce his past name buckler um what i will say is we did this documentary with lauren southern we're really excited but uh lauren is going to be working with tenant so i don't know uh to what degree what documentary did you do with With Lauren, we did one. It's called Infringed. It is a exploring. Yeah. So Lauren being Canadian, she takes a look at gun control.

She has this adventure looking at gun control. It's awesome. It's coming out November 7th. So we're super excited for it. It was supposed to come out 4th of July. And then there was legal stuff. Can we get a screener so we can write about it in advance? Absolutely.

We'll drop it when you put it out. And I'm told it's exciting and fun. And Lauren shoots a lot of guns. That's great. And we like guns. That's awesome. But yeah, that's coming up soon. And then I'm also just really excited.

I don't know if you guys saw the trailer that was released by Tenet Media. We're doing a super group. So Benny Johnson, Dave Rubin, me, Taylor Hansen. It's Taylor, right? I always get his name wrong. Yeah. Lauren Southern. it's a it's a we're doing a super group all right so uh benny johnson dave rubin me uh taylor hansen it's taylor right i always get his name wrong yeah lauren southern i think this is uh matt christiansen i'm super excited about matt christiansen shout out to matt christiansen he's amazing love his work um but we're basically you know we're putting together the super group so it's a bunch of various projects that are coming together and i think it's it's wildly beneficial but i don't want to say too much because you know,

I, there's other people involved too, but the culture war show will be moving there. There's a lot more going on, but super excited for this. Matt Christian's great. I didn't know that he was involved in tennis. He's great.

I really like his streams. That's awesome. You know, that, that was like, you know, when this, this,

this super group is coming together and I'm like, yeah, yeah. And they're like, Matt's involved. I was like, Oh really? I was like, okay, well, I don't know. Let's send me, send me send me let me know what's going on and then i talked to everybody who's involved and i think it's it's it's really really smart it's one

of the smartest moves in new media in my opinion nice yeah uh i don't want to i don't want to get into too much detail until they do their formal launch and everything put the trailer out but there's a lot i could elaborate on why i think it is really really smart there are people saying things like tim you're supposed to be independent what are you doing it's like yes yes tim cast is entirely separate company we did a deal with them so we could we could it's it's a multi-front uh battle in the culture war but i i really do think there's a there's a lot more to be said and i'll save it for when they do all their big announcements and they want to you know i don't want to step in anyone's toes but it's going to be it's going to be epic so it's really really cool stuff i

think it's going to amplify the the the reach of many people involved it's going it's going to be, it's going to be epic. So it's really, really cool stuff. I think it's going to amplify the, the, the, the reach of many people involved. It's going, it's a tremendous move. I think in winning the culture war, uh, we've all, we all talked with a lot of people about like strategy and stuff. I'm really excited for this. So, uh, let's read some more. Shane H. Wilder says great job with the culture war. I'm glad it was a civil discussion. Even if I still disagree with Jenk, regardless, these conversations need to be had. Keep it up. I think the most important thing that came out of that was the question over who has a right to be president. And I know a lot of conservatives will have the more immediate response of you have to be born in this country or born to American parents. point was Chinese Communist Party members having a surrogate in California give birth to their son, who is now a natural born citizen, who within an hour of being born is flown back to China,

who is raised in China, and then a loyal CCP member comes to the United States and wants to be president. That doesn't make sense. So the line isn't just if you were born here, because there's issues that we have to deal with right now with people coming here just to be having their kids just to be born here. So they get these rights and access. If so, the question is, what should the test and restriction be if we're going to have one? Cenk made interesting points. I don't completely agree. He argued the 14th Amendment has already determined you can be president even if you weren't born here. will i don't think the supreme court sides with them but he's saying he's going to win and all that stuff he has to say that

you know to be fair he's making the he's making the argument but you know my point was who would you rather have uh as president someone who is a chinese communist party member and official who was born in california spent three days here and then was raised in china or dinesh de sosa well i'd rather have dinesh D'Souza? Well, I'd rather have Dinesh. But he wasn't born here, so he can't be president. Sorry, you get the CCP member. But he's very smart.

But I don't know why anyone would vote for the CCP. I don't know why those are the only options. It's not. I never could figure out why in a country of 300 million people, we got to settle for the scum that runs for office in this country. Because in a country that has so much opportunity like america people that are skilled and they find something else to do do actually good things why aren't you running oh come on you know what i am come on i'm a great advisor to libertarian party presidential candidates that's what i am and you know what i screwed up i forgot to say during the main part

of the show i got an article on antiwar.com today the spotlight article it's full of quotes in fact if anyone's collecting these quotes it's your ultimate resource for quotes of benjamin netanyahu and his men explaining why they like hamas ruling the gaza strip so they don't have to deal in good faith with the palestinians on the west bank and i got a list of quotes this long it's a spotlight on anti-war.com right now i i here's here's an important question um and and with respect because we're huge fans of dave smith why isn't dave smith running for the for president i have no comment on that he's because he's got a wife and kid that his kid had like had i don't know for sure that like it's not like i know that's it talked to him but he's got a kid his kid had a has a heart i get it i get it i get it i mean no disrespect when i ask my point is running for

president is very very very hard you have to have something deeply wrong with you dave smith would have to be like my family's not important to decide to run for president oh i don't think that's true i mean especially as a libertarian you could do a half-assed job and still be you know all right dave where you at the problem that we've had in the libertarian party for a very long time since harry brown is we've ended up we've essentially well badenarek was i don't know we we have presidential candidates who don't understand the philosophy and don't know how to talk about it and don't know you know we have bob barr and gary johnson and that's right you know i'll tell you a story where were you to whisper in his ear i'll tell you a story. Where were you to whisper

in his ear? I'll tell you where I was. I wrote Gary Johnson a memo this long about Syria the night before that happened. Are you kidding me? I swear to God. Which was all about what? It was all about Gary. Barack Obama is backing Al-Qaeda in

Syria right now, bro. Like, I was hitting him with some good stuff. You're only making me hate him more. And I swear, this is what he answered me. He answered me back. Thanks. Right? Not like, wait a minute, can I call you and ask you some follow-up questions?

Because this is crazy. God damn you, Gary Johnson! But wait, wait, listen, listen. The funny thing about the Aleppo moment is, do you know what Trump would have said? Oh, no. Look, Aleppo is interesting. I know a lot of people are talking about it,

but I'm focused on jobs. He would have pretended to know. Exactly. And that the more important thing is jobs. And then, you know. Well, he's right. The more important thing is jobs. And what's so funny is,

what's so funny about that too, is that if he had known what he was talking about, if he cared at all to know about the Syria war, he could have had such a great fight with them. Because want to talk about aleppo i'll tell you about aleppo that's where barack obama backs the suicide bomber head shopper murderers of al-qaeda and where the secular dictator with the clean shaven chin in the three-piece suit who protects the rights of christians and shiites and other minorities in the country is trying to save that city from america's mercenary terrorist forces

and what were they saying what yeah exactly and what were they saying at the time they were saying that assad is committing genocide assad is attempting to murder every last man woman and child in his own country and luckily al-qaeda is there the moderate rebels are trying to stand up to him and prevent him from accomplishing this but then what happened just after that within a couple of months after that not even a few weeks after that the Assad government finished retaking that town the jihadists all got on buses to the idlib province and then what happened they had christmas and all the christians came back wow and all the civilian population of aleppo came back the city was saved by bashar al-assad from the real genocidal murderer barack

hussein obama all right and benjamin netanyahu spark Wire says, Tim's unhinged financial advice. Sleep in the park with $5,000 in your backpack. You gotta risk it for the biscuit. Sorry, if you're not willing to do to take those risks, you don't win. That's just the way it's gonna be. You gotta bet big to win big. Now, look, in all honesty, in all seriousness,

I wouldn't recommend anybody do what I do in terms of risk. You know, I gotta... You take a lot of wacky risks and you do a lot of wacky things. Oh, I love doing wacky things. I love it. Remember that mini mega you were going to build here, man. Oh, man. I would love to see a map of all the places you've been.

I don't want to besmirch the good name of friends of mine, but I'll tell you afterwards, it's more of a private thing. It's kind of just like you know business stuff so we're but uh uh we're we're it's coming it's just it's somewhere else okay yeah so i gotta tell you i want to try it but also i'm so terrified oh we got we have we have a big project with the new skate park stuff that we're doing and we're really really excited so uh i don't know if you've been posting yet it's called the boonies it's the skate show and project we're doing we're producing a lot of content but uh my my real point i like it yeah scott next time you come no matter what you think

bring the skateboard i'm bringing my board next time we had a great session last time after the show it's it's like midnight i am dead tired and he's like you have to skate i did a kickflip pivot on the mini ramp he did do a kickflip pivot on the mini ramp i'm like that's not bad he's got he's got a mean hard flip well he showed us this video earlier but i've seen with my own eyeballs a mean hard flip and what do you call it hang 10 hard flip yeah i love that that's almost hang 10 hard for the light flip i've done them but uh i landed an ollie blunt and i still remember telling myself do not bail these boys are looking at you feet on grip tape horton so uh as for the sleeping in a park with a ton of money what i will say is to varying degrees you must determine the amount of risk you are willing to

take and i would not recommend anyone take any risk if someone comes to me and says i want to go report from turkey and istanbul during mass protests i would say don't ask me because i'll tell you not to do it why i will not be responsible for the risks you decide to take because i'm not you that being said i take a whole lot of crazy risks and boy do they pay off so uh weren't you there for the kyrgyzstan coup in 05 or something like that what i'm not that old i was in uh the gezi park protests but i know to get out of war like and i have no problem saying this i there i have no illusions of grandeur when when civil unrest results in war i'm i'm gone three hours before that happens sure and i'm like you need military veterans to be reporting from

these locations you need people with actual war experience because it's about two things i got no problem risking my own life but i cannot be responsible for someone else's and i've been in some serious conflict stuff where they have strapped people to my ankles and i'm like i have to keep this person alive now i am not the person for that job i am not a medic i am not a first responder i'm not a soldier i i would not be able to handle that i have no problem running and jumping over walls and breathing in tear gas and bullets are flying and i'm hitting the deck but the moment you put someone with me who doesn't have any capabilities and i know if i abandon them

that i was in venezuela they they're their national guard they're shooting at people crowd uh so they had been shooting people in in the past so when these protests happened they weren't shooting where i was i don't believe when something snapped between the national guard and the students everyone runs i yell to my crew move now run and i run and i look back and they're just standing there staring at the national guard with rifles and their mark and i'm like oh my god oh my god like they're going to die and so i was just i lost it i said guys we're leaving i will not be here to pick up your remains like people are being shot and killed in this place we it wasn't a war zone it was civil unrest with live ammo those that's that's my limit

and i'm like i couldn't imagine being in an act actually in syria or afghanistan or something like that i could not handle that. And so that for me was like, if you can't do this, if you're not trained, I'm sorry. I am not skilled enough to be able to be a fixer for you guys. And I think about there are a lot of journalists I know who are dumb as a box of rocks. And they'll get some like, you know, Iraq war veteran to be their security head. And I'm like, what a job. Yeah, that's like, yikes, man. I wouldn't put anyone in that position.

For myself, my own dumb journalist self, I wouldn't do that. When the security guys, when I would be, they would make us do these security things like coordination and prep. I'll give you a better story. I was in Brazil interviewing the Bopi.

I think it was the Bopi. It could have been the Carre or whatever it's called. SWAT cops. They had this mock favela and they're explaining how they go in to deal with the gang members and the cartels and all that stuff. It was like their own cop city. It's it's no, it's not a cop city. It's a fake favela.

It's a training center that's designed to be like a favela. And we're on the top of a building. And he's explaining like, you know, it's very narrow corridors. And I said, what do you do now? You're up here. The guy jumps and he goes, he smiles and he just, he, he, he grabs the wall and he jumps down. And then I jumped down right after him and he's like, yeah.

And he gives me a, he gives me a high five. Like I just jumped off a building with this guy. So he's like, I've, I've had meetings with security guards and I'm like, I've been skateboarding for 20 years. And they're like, OK, good. So when I tell you, you move, you'll be quick. I get it. And then you have the other journalists who are morbidly obese and don't know what gunshots sound like and have.

And they're like, all right. Yeah. But we got to read some more. We got to read some more. But my point ultimately there is if someone comes to me and says, Tim, I'd like to report for you in the Middle East, I'd say, nope, because I can't be responsible for you. A lot of news organizations will not allow you. They will not hire you. It won't happen.

This is why they do hire military veterans. So if you're like Tim said, sit in the park with five grand, I'm like, oh, bro, I've done crazier things than that. I mean, come on. I'm like I'm driving into active riots and people shooting at each other. That's way crazier than carrying a bunch of money in your pocket. But you gotta figure out the amount of risk you're willing to take to get the biscuit. You gotta risk it for

the biscuit. Is that a skateboarding thing? I don't know. People say it in skateboarding. I never heard that phrase until right now. Risk it for the biscuit? But I like it. It does rhyme. Yeah, so I think we just had some skaters here. Dude did a kickflip, blunt kickflip. It's like, you gotta risk it for the biscuit. I know. I'll show you the video. I some skaters here. Dude did a kickflip, blunt kickflip. And it's like, you got to risk it for the... I know.

I'll show you the video. I'll tell you this. There's a vert ramp going up somewhere in Texas. That's going to be 12 feet with extensions with pool coping. It's going to be 150 feet wide. Half a football field wide. So a vert ramp going in. We got to read...

I'm saving my legs and my elbows for that one we got to read more superchats we got to read more superchats logan culver says scott do you have a photographic memory your ability to pull up all this info is amazing uh yes i do have a photographic memory i can um my real event one of my real advantages you know when i was a boy uh third grade uh my hero was encyclopedia brown his he the the crime solver and his thing is he remembers everything he reads and that's that's really my talent and i um i can i kind of picture the i can i can remember the colors in the shape of the website really helps me remember where i read what and when and that kind of thing is this dom says general clark wanted to attack russian military

in kosovo james blunt and his ceo refused refused Clark's orders to attack a Russian-controlled airport. Yeah, so this is what I was mentioning earlier about World War III there. Clark would have started World War III in the 90s. He's a warmonger. That's right. So when he says James Blunt, this is the singer who I'm not familiar with his songs, but I think he's like a real famous guy, right? The singer? English singer.

Yes, James Blunt. He was a colonel. Is that your beautiful guy? Yes. Yes, that's the guy. That's the guy. Okay, and then it Blunt. He was a colonel, yes. Is that your beautiful guy? Yes, yes, that's the guy. That's the guy. Okay, and then it gets better. It gets better.

Wesley Clark ordered James Blunt to take his men and seize the Pristina Airport after the Russians took it. And the Russians weren't supposed to take it, but they went in there and they got the Pristina Airport. Clark ordered Blunt to take the airport. And then guess who intervened and stopped him general michael jackson of the british army told you're lying i swear to god we live in a simulation general michael jackson said belay that order blunt and told just told general clark i'm not

gonna start world war three for you then he moonwalked across the battlefield. And by the way, so Clark also was in charge of Fort Hood during Waco. It's not Fort Hood anymore. Isn't it like Fort Native American Special Man? Fort PC. But he was the boss during Waco, and General Shoemaker, who was the commander of Delta Force, it's really General Shoemaker who murdered those people,

but he was working for Clark at the time. And so those men's responsibility for that is still to come due. Legama says, Tim, I'd like to see this man debate historian Benny Morris about the 1948 war. Oh boy, wouldn't that be fun? I would love to see his ignorance humbled.

Oh, that would be hilarious. All I would do is read Benny Morris to Benny Morris. Are you kidding me? This guy ought to read what Benny Morris has written, the truth. Benny Morris is, I'll have you know. We should do a culture war episode. morris to benny morris are you kidding me this guy this guy ought to read what benny morris has written the truth benny morris is all i'll have you know we should do a culture war episode here's two things to know about benny morris he has done more he has done more to tell the truth about what happened during the nakba to the poor people of palestine than probably anyone else he's a

revisionist historian in israel and then he also is a total hawk who says that they should have finished the job and cleansed them all, all the way out of there. So he's a total hawk, but he's an honest guy. And he has done probably more for establishing the real truth of what happened in the Nakba than any other Israeli historian. I would love to debate Benny Morris, Tim. You make that happen for me, buddy. And I'll bring my skateboard that day. Well, we should definitely do a culture war where we can find somebody who would like to have a debate with

you on all this stuff, if you'd be interested. I'm happy to do it. That'd be great. I'm happy to do it. I know a lot of people were hoping that I could debate Ben Shapiro here, but I don't think he'll show up. Here? Sure. Well, here's the issue. Ben Shapiro runs a company and hosts his own show. So the idea that it's like... He'd go on a neutral thing. No, it's not about. Ben Shapiro runs a company and hosts his own show. So the idea that it's like going a neutral thing.

No, it's not about being neutral. I say this about Hassan and Jen Cougar. I'm like, guys, guys, if someone's got a full-time job where they're running a company and hosting a show, if someone said, Tim Pool, why don't you fly to LA and debate a guy? I'll be like, well, I'm running a company. We've got like 40 employees. I got to host my show. It's a disrespect.

I took a week off of writing my book to read nothing but israel stuff and prepare for this show to come out here and try to do my best for you guys um and and i have a lot of jobs no i get it you know but i think it's worth it and by the way shapiro shapiro i challenge you dude i saw you say on joe rogan that you're willing to debate this issue but i think you're a coward and i don't think you are man enough well i gotta tell you i don't i don't think that is conducive to actually having the conversation with him well except you know what gene epstein already invited him to debate me for money at the soho forum in new york and he wouldn't do it and so what ended up happening was i i instead debated bill crystal and drove him into the ground. Have you ever seen that? It was awesome. I debated Bill Crystal and

smashed him because Ben Shapiro wasn't man enough to show up. Well, we have to make sure it is the steel mannest of steel mannest debates. Sure. So we don't want to get any half-assed, you know. Agree. Not for Bill Crystal. Bill Crystal's garbage. He's wrong about everything. Everything. And look, I

didn't straw man Bill Crystal either. I don't do straw man dude i mean i don't want to win a rigged game there ain't no honor in that we want we want to put the heavyweights against the heavyweights the only problem is with debating ben shapiro is i'm not sure if i could stop myself from laughing the whole time he's talking just from the sound of his voice you're not gonna get a debate but no but no serious why would he debate you if you're just insulting him okay you know what he wouldn't already. We already tried this. And I told, I was actually very polite at the time

and said, hey, seriously, man, I'd like to discuss this with you. We could do a whole thing and try to be very adult about it. And he refused to respond in any way to Gene Epstein's offer to have us debate at Soho. Cenk Uygur has said some really awful things about me. He's yelled at me in person.

And I still like say, like, I don't insult him. I try to agree with him when I can. And he eventually said, you know what? I'll come on Tim's show. He came on because he's running for president. Tim, you know that Ben Shapiro will only debate college girls who are confused about their gender identity or some crap. He'll make fun of some little kid he's not he have you ever seen him debate a grown man about an actual subject of

import of any kind i was going to college yeah i don't either yeah but but you know i see him in the right hand margin on youtube for some reason every single day no matter what and it's always ben shapiro destroys 19 year old girl who doesn't know the difference between a girl and a boy okay well that's you know really impressive i guess look that's what there's a there's a supreme court justice that doesn't know the difference between a girl fair fair point but no but in all seriousness let's let why don't we find someone who's like sure like very like top tier i'm happy to do it that's the best yeah and look i think this is something that you guys deal with

a lot when you're dealing with the left is all these ridiculous accusations of racism you guys were talking about some of this a little bit earlier in the show today but it's the same thing on the right with the claims about anti-semitism i bet you could probably testify to this more than any other person or just as well as me any person involved with online alternative media can tell you that anyone who's actually an anti-semite will tell you that they are and will try to convince you to also be and so when you hear right-wingers throwing around jew hater and anti-semite when we're talking about israel palestine that ought to sound as ridiculous in your ear as when everybody calls you a racist just because you disagree about the

minimum wage or whatever it is that they're stupid on you know all right we'll read some more missy kin says tim how did you not want to punch chank during the culture war interview today for saying you attract right-wingers because you look at the nuance in each of the high high profile police killings i i don't want to hit i i don't want to hit anyone ever sometimes in self-defense you have to the i think the most i've ever gotten is saying that i wanted to punch my my monitor screen or something but you know i like it's it's about tech but no no no listen listen people need to understand this jank performed as i hoped he would we the first and foremost the most important thing we agree

on a lot i'm like if we can be i said what were y'all mostly talking about uh foreign war i think well i don't know it's two and a half two hours and 40 minutes probably probably a bunch of things but what stood out to me is i said if we can win where we agree we should focus on those things yeah max blumenthal said that and i said if mitt romney was running against with joe biden i'd vote jen kuger why at least we get julian assange pardoned all right and i can i can bet he's not going to start foreign wars now all the other stuff i think probably gonna be awful but if and i say romney not that he's running but because he's the example of that garbage republican and and joe biden is garbage Democrat. They're going to screw me over

every way and have war. So like if the best I can get is is Janko is is for gun control and a bunch of woke policy and stuff. You know, that's what I want to focus on. But understand when I when I began talking about George Floyd and then he lost it, I'm like, I'm not I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm asking you, what is what is the answer to? There is a man behind the wheel of an SUV chewing on a speedball, methamphetamine and fentanyl. Should the police not intervene?

He says they shouldn't. I'm like, OK, and when the police do and the man resists, what should they do? And he's like, I can't believe you're defending. I said, OK, well, he's like the most high profile profile case. I said, let's talk about Ahmaud Arbery. I said, and he goes, oh, you mean when the two racist guys killed that jogger and i'm like okay right here is the point if you don't know the facts of the case and he's like i can't believe you would even say this and blah blah but that's the point i want everyone to see jank say that jank wants everyone to see

jank say that the wager both of us have made is that i believe the average person will be repelled by what he said he believes the average person will agree and be attracted to what he said i'll take my wager i think what he said was repellent but he said it because he believes it i'm glad he did we had a great conversation i'm not mad about it i'm like thank you for saying that i'm now i'm now going to show my friends and family and I say, this is what an argument looks like when you try bringing up the nuance in a criminal trial. Yeah, that made me mad.

Well, I thought, I was just really glad to see the conversation. I mean, it's so rare. And you guys talked about this in the interview. Like it's so rare to see people from, you know, sort of divergent political perspectives actually have a conversation you know yeah well i i max blumenthal came on i said he said he said the same thing he's like we're probably gonna disagree on a lot and i'm like then let's just win all of

the things we can win on that we want and then go back to complaining about each other because is that is that fair like i totally agree with that. Let's do it. Look, I'm a libertarian, and so that means I know that no matter what, if I die at 85, we're still going to be a tiny minority of the population of the country. So I can try to recruit as many new libertarians as I can, but I also just want to help the right and the left

to prioritize to be the least worst right and the left that they could be as well you know what i mean so the majority of this country is anti-war i absolutely agree with that and especially that it's really changing on the right unfortunately this israel thing is really kind of put thrown a monkey wrench in the america first right but only temporarily i think it was interesting though to hear mike johnson talk about um funding for israel today because he at least said that any money that um he would he would advocate for to go for israel today because he at least said that any money that um he would he would advocate for to go to israel would have to come from somewhere else in the

budget from other from americans well i mean he didn't say that i would ideally say that you know it would be pulled from different foreign by the way you know you hang on libby asked me a question earlier that i actually didn't get a chance to answer, but I'll just be real brief about the, because we talked about 48 a little bit, but just kind of this ongoing narrative that the Israelis keep trying to give the Palestinians a state and they always say no, that that's just really not true. And in fact, I have a book here that I was reading today. I didn't quite finish it today, but it's what really happened or the secret history of Camp David in the year 2000 and how Arafat just took all the blame that they try to give him a whole state and he refused to do it. And it's just not true. And what happens is they essentially set him up to be the rejectionist.

And then they go, aha, see. And in fact, in the book, they show where Bill Clinton agreed and promised Arafat, if it all falls apart, I promise I won't blame you, because you're right, they're being real sticklers about this, that, and the other, forget the details for a second, but the deal is not coming through, the Israelis are not being as generous as they say, whatever, and then when the deal falls apart, they go, aha, it's all his fault, and we tried to give him a state, but he refused to accept it, because you know how those arabs are and all this kind of stuff and then and just to provide one footnote for that too is people can look this up this was a leak from 2011 it was leaked to the guardian and to al jazeera it's called the palestine papers was it in the sock drawer was this part of the bill clinton sock

drawer i don't think so totally separate there there was if you're talking about sandy burger stealing documents that's a different thing. But these Palestine papers reveal that the Palestinian Authority under Mahmoud Abbas, they have just been bending over backwards to accommodate the Israelis. They've been willing to give up all of their claims on East Jerusalem. They've been willing to give up all their claims on all but like the three biggest settlements that prevent the west bank from being contiguous and this kind of deal and then it's the israelis who won't negotiate in

good faith and you can read the palestine papers that they really demonstrate this all right it's the case we're gonna wrap it up there everybody if you haven't already would you kindly smash that like button subscribe to the channel share the show with your friends become a member at timcast.com if you want to support our work it's friday so uh we're gonna go take some days to relax but i'm always reading the news we're gonna have clips up throughout the weekend it's gonna be great you can follow the show at timcast irl you can follow me personally everywhere at timcast scott do you want to shout anything out uh check out my guys at the libertarian institute i got a great group of guys we get the best guy at kato

ted carpenter got fired for being too good on Ukraine. Now he writes for me. Okay. And I got the world famous and heroic James Bovard. We're about to publish his book, Lost Rights. Pardon me, Last Rights, The Death of American Liberty. We're about to publish Tom Woods' book, Diary of a Psychosis, How Public Health Failed Us During COVID Mania. And, oh, you'll love this one.

Domestic Imperialism, Nine Reasons I Left Progressivism by Keith Knight. Awesome. You're going to love it. It's so good. And he's just brilliant. And then, of course, all the bad news in the world at Antiwar.com. Check out my show, The Scott Horton Show. I got 6,000 interviews going back to 2003 proven

that me and my guys are right about everything and and read my book enough already time to end the war on terrorism right on i am phil that remains on twix i am phil that remains official on instagram the band is all that remains you can find us on spotify on youtube on Spotify, on YouTube, on Amazon Music, on Pandora. You know, the internet. Scott, you were awesome. Thank you so much. Oh, and I'm on Twitter, at Scott Horton Show, too. And thank you.

I'm very grateful for you having me here today. Oh, yeah. Anytime, man. It's been a blast. Libby? I'm Libby Emmons. You can find me on Twitter. I'm not cool enough to say Twix.

At Libby Emmons. You just said it. I know, but I can't make it work. And you can find all the great work we're doing at thepostmillennial.com and humanevents.com and if you'd like to subscribe it's thepostmillennial.com slash subscribe thanks and i'm serge.com i'm rooting for the box you should too we can beat the all blacks we have a better record than them i think i don't know i have to look into that i'm not really sure but it's the most important thing in the world guys

so the African East is where they come please we need that Web Ellis back I'm gonna be playing music in DC later tonight cheers

and at some point soon we got the music set up too so I'm telling Phil he's gotta play some music and uh Dennis Prager to debate

Scott might be good oh I'd do that we can ask him but you know we'll figure it out alright everybody thanks for hanging out and we'll have clips up throughout the week and but you know, we'll figure it out. All right, everybody.

Thanks for hanging out. And we'll have clips up throughout the week and weekend. And then we'll see you on Monday. you