Timcast IRL - Timcast IRL #906 BLM Activist CONVICTED For Role Inciting January 6th Riot At Capitol w/Dave Smith

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

Tim, Ian, Seamus (Freedom Toons), & Serge join Dave Smith & Clint Russell to discuss a BLM activist being found guilty over his actions during J6, Col. McGregor predicting America will not have an election in 2024, TikTok beginning to take down Pro-Bin Laden videos, and a debate about the reasoning behind Bin Laden's letter to America. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

BLM activist John Earl Sullivan has been convicted for his role in incitement on January 6th. That is right. This is a BLM far-left activist. And the funny thing about it is, we all know, the media has in the past reported on his activities. We know that he was a frequent attendee and organizer for many leftist rallies. We know that on video he's cheering for what's happening at the Capitol. And now we've got the corporate press saying he's an anti-establishment activist. Right. Because now they're trying to deflect from the fact that he's a Black Lives Matter supporter. And that was basically what it was all about. He even said in the there's video of him

from that from that day where he's saying, I don't I'll be on anybody's side if they're going to tear it all down, yada, yada, yada. So that's going to be interesting how we see liberals and the left respond to this, considering for a long time a lot of conservatives said there were anti-fascists, there were leftists there. Now it's one guy, so we'll see. But we also got to talk about what's going on with TikTok, because this is a wild story that's been going off since yesterday. TikTok has been promoting videos where leftists say they read Osama bin Laden's letter to America and that they believe he was correct. I don't think any of these people actually read the thing because he's basically lamenting how U.S. foreign policy

is preventing Sharia law from taking hold on the planet and how he wants all of the West to come to Islam. And I think if they actually read maybe even like the first paragraph where Osama bin Laden says that you have to abandon fornication, homosexuality, gambling, and usury, they might be like, wait, I don't know if we agree with this guy,

but sure enough, now we're getting news that TikTok is going to start banning all of these things. So it's a wild story. We'll definitely talk about that in a whole lot more. Before we get started,

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Join Us, become a member, because I'm pretty sure the Members Only After Show is going to be fairly lit, considering our guests. So smash that like button, subscribe to this channel, share the show with your friends. Joining us tonight to talk about this and a whole lot more, we got Dave Smith. What's up? Good to be back. Who are you? I am a stand-up comedian, a podcaster, a soldier in the Ron Paul army, and a destroyer of Loomers.

You had a debate with Laura Loomer the other day. I did. It was a fun time. Thank you. Shout out to Zero Hedge for putting that thing on. It was a fun time and Zero Hedge is a cool publication so it was cool to do. It was like the first in like a debate series that they're launching.

Plus we got Clint Russell hanging out. Clint Russell, host of Liberty Lockdown, co-host of Tower Gang, co-host of the best political show over on Rumble with Luke Rutkowski, if you can believe it. Can't be that good. It's pretty good.

Actually, it's the best, Seamus. I know Potato Man doesn't believe me, but it's true. Yeah, we just signed a deal with Rumble. We're very grateful for that, and you guys can actually

check us out. We're going to have Jackson Hinkle on this Sunday, 6 o'clock. Don't miss it. Just search We Are Change. All one word on Rumble. You'll love it. I don't know.

That Luke guy sounds foreign. Yeah, he is. He's actually an interesting Polish person. Yeah, he is a person of color. Polish people, they really are. Not that I have issues. I actually like Polish people. That's why I'm so disappointed by him.

I actually really love Polish food. I tend to. No, like Polish food, it's the best. A lot of what they do. No, Poland's fantastic. Well, Seamus is back again. I'm a cartoonist. Yes, my name is Seamus Coghlan.

Also, I've been on Clint's show, and it is very, very good, actually. Enjoyed it very much. So I will concede that, but that was before the new co-host. I have a YouTube channel called Freedom Tunes. We create animated cartoons about politics and the culture war. We released a cartoon today that I'm super happy with. Everyone working on it.

Their talents shined through. I think it's one of the funniest videos we've made. It's a parody of those red pill guys who will find a beautiful young couple on a date and be like, what are you bringing to the table? It's's it's a fun one i'm really good yeah yeah tim got to see it while it was in progress the other day so if you guys want to check that out go over to uh freedom tunes on youtube subscribe hit the notification bell i love y'all i'm looking forward to a good show

i did they record the uh debate between you and laomer? Yeah. Zero Hedge put it out on their Twitter or X feed or whatever. And I think Laura Loomer put it out on her Rumble. I'm going to be moderating the next Zero Hedge debate. Oh, yeah. So that'll be with, I don't know if it's official who it is yet or what it's on. So I'm not going to mention it now, but it's going to be. Trump versus Biden. It's going to be in the next couple of weeks.

And as soon as I get the green light that it's all confirmed and everything, I'll start telling everybody what's what. But keep an eye open. Could you imagine Ian moderating a debate between those two? He would just ask them questions. They had no idea what was going on. They'd be like, I don't know. What's your policy?

Did you guys have a moderator? Yeah, we had Adam from Patrick David's. Oh, Adam Sosnick. He was great, too. Yeah, I love Adam. He's a great guy. And so, yeah, he did. He did a very good job. Well, Adam Sosnick. Yeah, yeah. And he was great, too. Yeah, I love Adam. He's a great guy. And so, yeah, he did a very good job. Cool.

Well, we got to... Before we're checking it out. We got Serge pressing the buttons. Yes, I'm here. It's good to see you, Dave. And good to see you, too, as well, Clint. And also to see you, too, Seamus. I know I was there seeing you last night.

I didn't know you'd be here today. I know, yeah. It's great seeing you as well, man. Yeah, cheers. Anyways, let's get into it, guys. Here's a story from the post-millennial far-left BLM activist John Sullivan convicted on all charges in the january 6th case sullivan said he was only at the capitol to document the event this is really interesting because uh

he's a prominent blm activist who was there during court testimony he said he was only there to document i was only observing i followed the crowd i'm here to document sullivan's testimony was followed up by prosecutors who played multiple videos of Sullivan urging on the mob, which included a self-declaration to make Trump supporters F-ish up. I'm going to side with anyone who is ready to rip this ish down, Sullivan said in one video. I brought my megaphone to instigate ish, he said in another video. NBC News reports that prosecutors portrayed Sullivan as an anti-establishment

activist who had the goal to burn it all down. Now, I have to wonder, here's NBC News saying anti-establishment activists sought to incite Trump supporters on January 6th, DOJ argues. But of course, I want to make sure we can bring up John Earl Sullivan's Wikipedia page. He's got one where they mentioned he organized and participated in protests relating to Black Lives Matter, though a few other blm organizers explicitly disavowed him i don't think that matters that's what his ideology was they say he entered the capitol and accidentally broke a window he repeatedly shouted encouragement to

fellow writers and they go on to outright outline the things that uh he he does and ultimately his claims of being a journalist i believe cnn paid him. What did they pay him? 50 grand? Something like that for his footage. Had him on TV. Here's what's fascinating. Here's why I think they're not calling him far left. For one, there's absolutely NBC News. They're super biased.

But we're talking about a federal charge here. I'm curious, actually. I believe it is DC, right? Are you going to convict a black lives matter supporter on january 6th by telling a jury that this guy was a black lives matter supporter and so the strategy of the prosecutors is if we go to the jury and say he's blm they acquit him and if they acquit him then they gotta quit everybody well so so he's just being the charges are being brought against him right he hasn He hasn't been convicted. Convicted on all counts.

Oh, he was convicted. Okay, my mistake. Okay, and then do you, does it say anything about like what obviously hasn't been sentenced yet, but what type of jail time he's looking at for this? Well, here's the interesting thing. Because breaking a window is what that, the Proud Boy or whatever got, that got him like 15, 17 years or whatever it was. And the argument was that

they were like well by breaking a window this wasn't just oh you broke a government window it was you created an opening for a mob that would then be trying to overthrow the government so i'm just saying what because for the record whatever he was armed well whatever this guy was armed under the knife okay and they even point out that he drew the knife in on the house uh wait wait he drew his knife as riders were trying to breach the house floor well i didn't realize this guy was a hero i'm just kidding i'm just kidding that's a joke youtube it's a total joke and i don't mean that literally but you know get my point anyway um well i'm just saying what like i because if they're going first off if they're going to throw the book at this guy in that way i still would think that's insane as i do with all the january 6th protesters

what's really interesting about this is the question of which i don't know if it's clear what is this guy hey i'm just so anti-establishment i'm a burn it all down when there's black lives matter rally guy and i'm a burn it all down when there's J6 type guys or is this what I think a lot of the right-wingers were more suspicious of initially after January 6th that this is somebody who's trying to make the pro-Trump movement look bad by instigating all of them to do something that then could be spun as like yeah look how horrible the pro-Trump people are could be both because if if Black Lives Matter was disavowing this guy before the january 16 even went off he might have been it's uh kill two birds with one stone situation where he's like yo i can f the government and i can get

all these people thrown in jail and get them to commit crimes and then i can you know do away with two well he just sounds like a radical that went too far i don't know if you guys remember this but prior to january 2021, the left was not shy about openly embracing insurrectionist rhetoric. I remember during the BLM riots, there were left wingers who were saying all these right wing hypocrites spent years saying they have the Second Amendment to rebel against tyranny and overthrow the U.S. government. And now that the government is just indiscriminately killing unarmed black people, which is, of

course, a lie. But that's what they were saying. These right wingers won't rise up against this state. And then as soon as January 6th, 2021 happens, oh my gosh, insurrection is the most serious problem in this country. And we need to call these people traitors and throw them in prison. So it wouldn't surprise me that you actually might have a left-wing activist saying, yeah, I'll join with these right-wingers, try to overthrow the government,

or try to instigate right-wingers to overthrow the government. I want to crank this thing all the way up to 11 right now, if I may, and just say civil war. Everybody's been waiting. I haven't said it in a few months, so I feel like it's due. But no, let me explain. I don't literally mean to say civil war, but I'd like for you guys to give me your thoughts on the other day we saw David DePapp testify. This is the guy who attacked Paul Pelosi. In his testimony, he claimed that he was a leftist who was radicalized by right-wing conspiracy theories watching YouTube. Of that, he included me, Glenn Beck, James Lindsay. Dinesh D'Souza made a good point that this is a narrative where they go to them and say, they go to these people who are being charged like the J6ers and say, blame

Trump, blame the right and do this. I think there's a really simple reason why that's the case. You're in San Francisco. You are in the bluest of blue and the defense says to you listen you will not win because you attacked paul pelosi however the best sympathy you will get is if you claimed you were radicalized by the far right and that you you oh no what have they done to me it's the evil right that did it. Try and earn some sympathy in that way. The reason why they're arguing this guy in a federal case in D.C. is anti-establishment and not far left, once again, is for that exact same reason. Now, what happens is you are you are getting through these high profile cases in San Francisco. I'm seeing these people post saying, oh, look, James Lindsay, Tim Pool, Glenn Beck.

Oh, they they radicalize this guy. It's a lie. It's nonsense. And but it's creating that terrifying boogeyman. It's creating that bifurcation. If prosecute prosecutors in high profile cases are keep are they're going to keep playing this narrative of Donald Trump is radicalizing people to extremes. Anytime someone commits some kind of extreme act, even a BLM supporter, they're going to blame the far right or the quote unquote far right. They're creating a narrative that young people who are entering the political space will believe we live in this world. So real quick, as an example, it's a really interesting point that you bring up. Can I just say, like, because I think that's

such a good point and such an interesting thing to focus on, because like as a libertarian, one of the things that we talk about a lot is that like look we we don't think government should be in the business of kind of micromanaging culture and things like this but you also recognize that you need other forces like you need kind of a virtuous culture in order for that to work and i think one of the things i've been thinking this a lot like since all these uh these insane indictments have been coming down against donald trump when you look at like kind of the landscape of current day America, you go, how could a guy like Donald Trump ever get a fair trial?

I mean, if you have a jury trial with Donald Trump, whoever the jury pool is, it's like a 50-50 shot that they either think he is Jesus or Satan. And how could anyone who has either one of those opinions ever be an honest juror? And I think kind of the point you're making here is that like, look, in the reality today of a modern jury trial with the polarization of the country and this white hot culture war, you almost, yeah, man, if you're on trial in San Francisco, it's almost like the only way to tailor your defense is to try to have it something that hugs a left-wing sympathy. Let me add to what you said. You said 50-50. Let's say 33-30.

But no, no, no. Here's what I mean. 33% are going to say Trump's Hitler. 33% are going to say Trump is good. And 33% are going to say, holy crap, I better side with the left. Otherwise, Antifa is going to show up to my house and beat me to house. But it's an interesting point, right? Because people who are charged in relationship to January 6th are because of activities they engage in on January 6th are tried in Washington, D.C. As if that's a jury of their peers. I'm sorry. If you came from Arkansas, D.C. leftists are that's not a jury of your peers. That's people. The jury of your enemies.

Exactly. People with a specific political bias who hate you and your way of life. Hold on. I mean, think about what you're saying here. Other Americans are your enemies. Oh, boy. exactly people with a specific political bias who hate you in your way of life hold on i mean think about what you're saying here other americans are your enemies oh boy so so when i'm not other americans people in washington dc let's be clear about this but i get it but like the the genuine sentiment is if you are from look i brought this up yesterday when we were talking about the thing we had a legal issue against a major corporation.

And my lawyer said, OK, well, if you sue in California or New York, you'll lose. The Democrat judge is already going to hate you, Tim Pool. And outside of that, they're going to be way more pro-corporate and they're not going to care about your rights. You sue in West Virginia, you're going to win overnight. Why? Well, you're in West Virginia. They like you, Tim Pool. And I'm like, is that really all that it is? Yes.

Selecting the proper venue is like one of the most important most important things especially today if not the most important thing i have a bit of a different angle on this i think that the uh the the real concern that i have is that you have these commentators that are being categorized like you're my friend tim here uh along with james lindsey and others that they're trying to kind of lay out the groundwork for this stochastic terrorism argument where you're being uh you know pushed into radicalism by people who are just speaking freely and then you're now in some in some way uh what's what's the word exculcated uh where basically your your personal responsibility is removed because you've been inspired by this radical tim pool or alex jones or whatever and it just it really because of the where we're at that's a real thing and like they've

come at you before with that wasn't what was the other that young turks uh chick tried to like come at you about how uh some shooter liked one of your videos or something like that so they're not young turks i'm sorry my mistake yeah that's right so that was the guy in Texas who on his Facebook had posted four screenshots of one episode and one specific portion of one episode. And it actually showed he wasn't a subscriber. Which is such a crazy thing because when you have a show like, look, you have a show like with this size audience, which you've built up a very big platform here. The idea that any one person who one time liked

one clip on this you're now on the hook it's literally it's almost on the level of like well this this mass shooter watched friends it's so i mean what i think i think obviously ross and rachel are the reason why he shot up there but but the other thing about it that's crazy is that phoebe was the one that radicalized when you yeah i'll tell you she's the one it was on that show she was the one but like if you actually kind of live in this world of like i do consider myself to be a radical politically speaking i'm pretty radically outside of what the current status quo is but when you're in this world it's kind of my uh my my good friend michael malice good friend of the show he used to always say and i really loved this uh when he would go i hope left-wingers

understand that the nra are the moderates on this issue because it really is like if you're not in that world i know they paint it as like that's like the crazy extreme but that's a they're the nra is up there like all we need to do is enforce existing gun laws and you're like wow that's so extreme and you're like extreme like i'm like shell not infringe yes like but the point is that if you're actually talking about a radical show like a show and i'm not even not radical in the way i am i'm radically like non-violent and peaceful if you were talking about a show that was going to amp you up to go like murder people this is not that show there's crazy people out there on the internet and this is not that real quick question do you think individual citizens have

the right to keep and bear biological weapons well we're getting a little out there with biological weapons i'd say down i'd say well it depends on what the biological weapon is how it's i mean uh i it depends on exactly what your definition of that is. I draw my line at nukes. No, I'm just kidding. Well, you know, look, I think if you were to have, this is a serious question. I will say unequivocally, the Constitution guarantees our right to keep and bear arms. It doesn't define what arms are.

Private citizens to this day own nuclear weapons through their corporations and back then owned warships. Nothing's changed. So right now, to this day, it's not even controversial to say, except in the in these podcasts, liberals get shocked that I would say this. And I'm like, do you think Raytheon is a government operation? Yes. No. Look, so in that case, you're absolutely right. where if you were possessing chemical weapons and were keeping them in a very risky way that could hurt a lot of other people, then you should be maybe liable for the fact that you're putting other people at risk.

Yeah, see, I gotta stop you. But in theory, in theory, I would tend to agree with you. Because this is the argument they make about proper gun storage and stuff like this. Like, you can only have a gun if it's separate from the ammo and in your trunk and not in the same compartment.

Yeah, so then the question is where you do draw the line. But at the same point, if you had a gun that you left out that the difference between like a nuke or, or chemical weapons in a gun is that a nuke, if you're just keeping it in a way where it could just detonate at any moment is actually a threat to other people. Whereas a gun,

someone actually has to pick it up and point the trigger and shoot. Anyway, I'm all for no, no restrictions. Brandishing a weapon. If you're like waving it around at people on wrongly yes right so you could you could think maybe there's an i don't try to out anarchist me i'm not gonna lose this i will i will say let me just say real quick i i do agree with the sentiment obviously i don't want the government regulating any weaponry that i can own however i go the opposite direction where i say uh humanity

ought to be working towards nuclear disarmament, broadly speaking, so I'm not interested in having civilians have them. I'm more interested in getting the federal government to have far less. The goal should be to disarm federal governments. Yes. That should be the goal. Yes, I think every person on the planet should have a nuke, perhaps a MIRV with a 12 warhead MIRV,

and because an individually nuclear-armed society is a very polite society. I'm kidding. I am kidding. perhaps a Merv with, you know, a 12 warhead Merv. And because a nuclear armed individual, an individually nuclear armed society is a very polite society. I'm kidding. I am kidding. Extraordinarily polite. Extraordinary. Or glowing. Either way. Have you read John Lott's book, More Nukes, Less Crime? It's good. A lot of good stats in there.

Anyway, what were we talking about before I decided to ask about that? January 6th. We were talking about the courts and how the courts have basically turned into if you're in a conservative district you know what a leftist is going to get a fair trial not as as fair as like it's hard to say fair fair um a leftist in a conservative district is going to get a decent trial definitely better and a leftist trial is going to get hard feathered strung up for for jaywalking or farting donald trump could fart in public and they're going to get him on some nonsense and lock him up yeah the truth the truth is that that leftist dogma is is so much a prerequisite for all of academia at this point

if you if you have to rely on any institution for your freedom you're in a lot of trouble at this point yeah put politically in in academia obviously now in the judiciary as well it it's not getting any better either because they have had a hundred years of infiltration into these uh you know mind creation uh institutions so yeah we're we have an uphill battle i think the like the only caveat and i agree with what you're saying tim i think there is there there is a point there that it's not equal kind of on both sides. But I guess part of the difference there, too, is that, look, there is, let's say, in right wing or red America, I think there is a tremendous amount, and I would argue justifiably, but a tremendous amount of resentment towards, say, the political establishment, debt is particularly the democratic party establishment so the the thing is i don't i don't know that in this moment of this hot culture war i don't know that hillary clinton could get a fair trial in rural alabama but the thing is that hillary

clinton is never going to face charges exactly in rural alabama right like the the federal government or different state governments or different like if there were some like conservative financier who's financing you know conservative prosecutors doesn't exist never right this just doesn't exist and then and hillary clinton isn't going to ever be put in that situation whereas donald trump will be on trial in new york city in washington dc and so that that is a part of the asymmetry also is that the entire like ruling base of the establishment is on one side exactly you know people say like oh the red pill is that people who have information that will lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton die actually the red pill is no amount of information will ever lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton there is

nothing you could show anybody that would ever result in a woman seeing a day in court. Yeah, that's a big cope that you think at the end of this, you know, whatever the QAnon crazy is. Oh, no, he's in charge the whole time. Jack Kennedy is coming back. Now, hold on. Roseanne has a standing bet with Michael Malice, two of them. One is that there will not be an election. So we're looking forward to that.

And that there will be military tribunals by the end of the year, which I don't know if you're talking about this year or what. But, know we'll see she is right about everything let's but but you know to be honest she made a good point though because i asked her to clarify on this i said are you saying we all just skip election day the tv says no elections or are you saying that something changes the election fundamentally to the point where it's a sham like north korea's elections well if that's the case we didn't have an election in 2020. 2016. Or 2016.

Look, I'll say, and I say this disclaimer, I love Roseanne. I consider her like a comedy icon. And every time I've met her, I'm giddy in the room that I'm even in her presence. And she's just hilarious and so great. But perhaps a little bit more of a serious voice on this uh topic is colonel douglas mcgregor who also said he is i don't know exactly exactly what he said but he basically said that he is

very concerned that there will not be a democratic election in 2024 now i'd like to hope he's he's wrong about that um he wasn't wrong about can't we talk about russia can we break down what does that mean does it mean yeah and this is the important question we have with rosanne does that mean there's no polling stations the tv just says you're not voting or does it mean it's going to be uh donald trump removed from the ballot and then 75 million people feel like they're not allowed to vote at all because of this well i don't know i mean i have no idea it's not my prediction but i think what uh if i remember correctly this was on patrick bett david's show he said this uh colonel douglas mcgregor that is who's been right about a lot of stuff over the last 20 years and um i think he was

basically saying that some type of emergency is going to be declared uh and that that is going to it's going to be used as an excuse to like postpone indefinitely the next election. Now, again, I'm not claiming this is going to happen, but I will say that if that sounds crazy to you, just take a step back. Look at the last three and a half years in America and go, look, a lot of things sound crazy. The idea of lockdowns would have sounded really crazy in 2019. And, you know, that happened.

If you talk to yourself from 2014, you're like, all right, so here's what's going to happen. Donald Trump's going to be elected president. And then the deep state's going to try to unseat Donald Trump when he's the president

of the United States because he's trying to dismantle the industrial military complex and get us out of all of these foreign wars. And then what's going to happen is there's going to be a virus that was created through research

funded by the United States that'll be released and everyone's going to be locked in their homes and the economy's going to crash and we're going to have rampant inflation. And then people are going to be debating whether the election was still you'd be like what are you talking about

but also the fbi and the cia will be working against donald trump the entire time they'll be lying to him about troop counts in syria we'll have a bunch of different fronts for nuclear uh for world war three yeah it's this is all going to happen in the next five years let me pull this up so let me pull this up we have this from zero hedge i don't think we'll ever get to the 2024 election colonel douglas mcgregor retired warns uh and that's this is the gist of it uh so let's see i think oh i think that's usually made by ambassador claims he's on the pbd podcast no no this is not he is not like uh he's not the type of guy to just say wild things to get a reaction this is a serious guy this was like a highly decorated colonel in the military he was mcmaster's boss let me at one point in the military and then just like he kind of turned against all

of the wars i believe he drew up the plans for battle with russia if we were to ever go to war with them let me read this uh so they want to they first in the zero-hedge article break down who he is they say uh bet david laid out how he thinks 2024 will play out he says newsom will go around defending biden selling b's record, have him constantly attack DeSantis. If Biden doesn't step down, have mainstream media attack him. Once Jill notices the NS attacks, have a private meeting with Biden, sharing strategy to save face, multiple documentaries showing him as a modern FDR, massive Simon & Schuster book

deal, defend his legacy. Step five, choose one of the few options to step down due to health. Jill and I prayed about it. We fixed everything Trump broke. We're out. Step six is in order to prevent Kamala from backstabbing, let her become the first female president for a split second, then step down, divide his hands in Trump. Newsom becomes 47 to step eight. In response to this, McGregor went dark beginning by noting that first of all, I think it's brilliant.

And I think that if we are, we're living in a linear world, in other words, when one event follows the next logically, you're absolutely right. But but I don't think we'll ever get to the 2024 election. I think things are going to implode in Washington before then. From there, it gets more ominous. Now, I don't I don't know that I disagree. And one of the reasons is, which we'll get into it a little bit later, is is TikTok pushing this? I've been a lot of Osama bin Laden letter to America and having a bunch of gen z leftists claim that osama was incorrect again

we'll talk about that in a moment but i'm just saying the the political divide in this country is so psychotic right now yeah to the point where like we already mentioned if you're being criminally charged in a liberal district your best bet is to say trump made you do it no matter what it is shoplifting i was watching this video about about Donald Trump and he told me to do it. Please help. Help. I'm a victim of the guy you hate. Listen, dude, I'll say still to this day, and you, Tim, you've done some incredible things in your career. But if I had to pick still to this day, what I'd say, I think your greatest moment was, was still Jack Dorsey, Rogan with the Rogan, because it was just such an incredible thing

it everything lined up we're like first if you remember uh that jack dorsey went on rogan and they didn't have a very confrontational argument and it's literally to this day the only joe rogan experience episode where i ever saw like joe's audience really upset with him and and as great and this is a credit to joe you know, full disclosure, he's a friend of mine, but a credit to him is he was like, okay, I hear you. Let's like run that back with someone who's critical of them. But you had the point to them and people could accuse you of being hyperbolic.

People could accuse me of kind of the same thing. But you had that moment to them where you were like, and I don't remember your exact words, but you were like, you guys don't realize what you're playing with here like you don't realize the game you're playing and you're like i'm getting a van and like gonna be bringing and like i'm like really concerned about like you're provoking a civil war in this country and okay it's not like we've had a civil war exactly since then but look we are we don't know we're all flirting with it and this is a

real thing that when people make these kind of dire warnings, I understand it's easy to go, oh, that's kind of crazy. But look around at this country, man. We are flirting with a lot of very insane possibilities. Time travel test. Go back to, what was it? Was it 2018 or 2019? When I was on with Jack Dorsey, Vijay and Rogan, it might've been 2019.

It was 2018. 2018. It was 19. It might have been 2019 2018 2018 was it 19 yeah yeah go back to that year and tell people if i went back and everything i said was was vague predictive like this country is headed towards civil war i'm gonna get a van i'm building a van with solar power getting ready to bug the F out. And they're laughing like, ha ha, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Now go back and say, since then, for the first time ever, a sitting president has been indicted in multiple jurisdictions. January 6th, just January 6th alone. I had Ryan Long came here on the show. Love Ryan Long.

He's hilarious. I was just thinking about it. One of the first things he says when the show goes live is he goes, Tim, you told me there was going to be a civil war. What happened? I thought you were getting me all hyped up. I was really worried when I left. And then I said, a thousand Trump supporters stormed into the Capitol and disrupted the Electoral College vote count.

And he went, oh. Well, I mean, and even the riots of 2020. I mean, the fact that we had the longest sustained riots causing billions of dollars of property destruction that same year. So this is the important thing to understand is um you know going back to something like that debate what we're seeing with twitter we're seeing uh the the hyper polarization of the of of twitter the rules they were creating the narratives they were swinging and the bifurcation in american culture and that's the

point i was making like you guys keep doing this yeah you are creating two distinct universes and what i could see at the time and what i can see now is like a blur it's like when you're if anybody wears glasses you know exactly what i mean your glasses are off and you see a strange shape in front of and you can't exactly define it but you're like there is a person walking towards me right now you put your glasses on you can see it clearly if i had glasses i could see the future but i'm saying what we're witnessing right now, as Phil Labonte says, what's the off-ramp? If we're now seeing

in these January 6th cases, confess and say Donald Trump made you do it or you're done, we're seeing Enrique Tarrio getting 20 years. He wasn't even there. But more importantly,

since that point, we've had the Summer of Love riots, the worst riots in 50 years, since that point, we've had the summer of love riots, the worst riots in 50 years, 30 plus deaths. We've had a guy gunned down in the street in Portland. We've had multiple autonomous zones. I can't even begin to stress how we've normalized this. Go back then and say, what if I said to Jack Dorsey, which I got a very specifically within the next year or a year and a half, there will be far left extremists who occupy city centers with rifles and kill people who oppose them. They'd say, you're nuts.

And it happened. And now we're just like, oh, that happened. Are we not even shocked that it's going on? So exactly. And so the, okay, the point that I'm trying to make here is that, okay, like imagine, I don't know what the analogy exactly would be, so imagine um you go you know you were in a business and you were talking to the other like stockholders and you go i think this business is in real trouble i think we're going to be out of business next year and then next year you're not out of business but your stock is down 90 percent

and they went see you're wrong we weren't out of business okay fine so i'm not saying yeah technically speaking maybe you weren't out of maybe it wasn't a civil wrong. We weren't out of business. Fire him. We're doing great. Okay, fine. So I'm not saying, yeah, technically speaking, maybe you weren't out of, maybe it wasn't a civil war. Maybe we weren't out of business, but still at least grant that there was like a lot accurate to this prediction. And that's my point about, by the way, just tying this back to the not being elections. Maybe that's not exactly right. Maybe Colonel Douglas McGregor is not word for word right about this but there still might be

much like with your prediction like some real insight i'll give you one i'll give you i'll give you the potential the potentiality october 2024 a single state secretary of state decides donald trump is ineligible based on the 14th amendment as they've interpreted it and so they remove his name from the ballots immediately and we And when we're three weeks out or whatever from the election, so early voting is happening immediately. You get the Trump team of all the conservatives, everyone filing emergency notices saying we need an injunction on this immediately. And then the state says, OK, we'll see you in court. They go to court by December. There's a ruling. Yeah, guys, you can't keep Trump off the ballot. Oh, the election's over. Trump wasn't on the ballot.

We've already seen in Michigan and Minnesota, they've said no to this. But the issue would be there. Look, we saw this in Arizona. And so I'm not basing this off of nothing. In Arizona, the wrong ballots were printed on the wrong paper. So the machines didn't work. I guarantee you. I shouldn't say that because i can't actually guarantee you but i would tell you this right now i will i would bet a substantial amount of money that in 2024 we will see similar voting machine errors on par with a misprint that results in jurisdictions failing it may listen if we hear about 100 jurisdictions and it totals maybe a single percentage point that this happened, no one will accept it no matter which side it ends up being. If it happens to Trump, if it happens to anybody else, I knew some.

Well, the truth is that government is a faith based system. And that's that's especially true for democracy. The whole thing is kind of reliant on this. It's all a religion in a way. It's all like you believe in it. We believe in, look, the government is a religion in every sense of the word, right? It has its kind of like sacraments and its rituals and its nobilities. And it's sacred cows.

It has its blasphemy. the things you're not allowed to say right it has all of this and also you know much like religion um and i i say this is someone who believes in god so don't take this the wrong way but it is so picture this like the religion you don't believe in not the religion you do believe in okay so if you're religious every other religion not your one uh but also it doesn't exist like government itself doesn't exist it's an idea that's in your head and that idea is almost gone well right but it's that's the point is that if it's not in your head then it's not right you know there's no there isn't government there's buildings and there's men with guns and who will

enforce the politicians wills and there's titles that we made up you know senator governor president but none of that is objective reality this is an idea that we all buy into and so when you have something like 330 million people in a nation and then however what is it 140 million voters or something like in that ballpark and then we're all recording all of their votes one day. Now, obviously, it could be a much better system than we have here. But it requires, to some degree, a leap of faith for people to just say, I believe in this system. And nobody has that in the United States. Very few people have that.

I think it's fair to say that 2012 was the last election. I'm not saying 100%. It is true. I'm saying it's fair to say in that 2016 was disputed by the left as fraudulent because Russia interfered. They even believe they flipped votes, et cetera, et cetera. 2020, the Trump supporters said the same thing of the Democrats. I don't care who you think is right or wrong.

You're allowed to think you're right. You're allowed to think other people are wrong. The point is we have now had two elections where both sides have accused each other of very dramatic, serious treason. Yes. And the point is that it's almost like if you believe it, then you're right. Because the point I'm making about saying it's like a religion, and again, I really, just to be clear, I'm not trying to knock the idea of religion.

I'm saying like some of the things that I think are the most beautiful ideas and institutions in the world. I think marriage is amongst the most beautiful institutions in the world. I think marriage is amongst the most beautiful institutions in the world. But in a marriage, if either the husband or the wife doesn't believe in it anymore, then they're right. Right.

There is no objective thing there. It's like, if you don't believe it, like then you're right, then you're not in this anymore. It almost requires both of you to believe in this thing that it's real. It's a much bigger debate but i do just give you a full way you need none of that no no you can get into how you trap your wife in the basement after this but i'm just saying i'm saying my wife is free to leave anytime she wants to and she doesn't want to leave

no it's it's not about why she's catholic though right so but you're not baptized yeah well it's a different situation but my point is okay but you don't believe in the concept of like sacramental marriage or that you're like actually bound in a way where you can't leave i'm not saying that you're not i'm saying you can believe that you're bound in that way and i do believe that i believe yes i believe that i've made a commitment to my wife that i said in front of our families and in front of god and that i will till death do us part uh and yes i believe that but if i stop believing that it doesn't exist anymore that's my point it requires the belief in that otherwise it's over and so in a sense even though it is completely ridiculous for the the left half of america to say that

vladimir putin overthrew the government in 2016 when he installed trump them believing that in itself changes the whole dynamics of politics and the same thing for trump supporters who believe the election was stolen in 2020 now i'm not saying it wasn't or it was i'm just saying once you believe that we're not playing the same game anymore you know i agree with you but you're putting on like the lens of what you think is right and wrong i'm saying forget what you think is right or wrong i'm saying if your wife stops believing that she has she's going to act as if she's not married you're in a different game you're in a different game now certainly different situation and so that's what we're dealing with in america today yeah no my point is simply to say that i agree

with some of what you're saying and i think ultimately we would just disagree on like the moral questions of how you're sort of formulating the analogy the way i understand it is i believe obviously in the the trueness of my faith i also believe there are such things as false religions i think anytime you have a false idol you have a false religion and government has become an idol for many people especially people in government they really do see themselves as the highest moral authority even fauci saying something like i am the science i mean that is a mockery of christ i am the way i am the truth i am the life fauci is saying he is truth itself and they also say that science is the way and the life they have this insane kind of scientist system of thought built up where anyone who calls themselves an expert is now entitled to

tell you exactly how how to live your life they have the fullness of the truth so i totally agree that there are parallels here with with um false religions rothbard actually talked about this in anatomy of the state that once faith in the state declines they would replace it with a technocracy or scientism it's exactly what we've seen we yeah that they're basically evolving naturally but i want to point i want to go back to a point from a minute ago when you were talking about uh you know sit down with jack dorsey on on rogan the whole reason that oh first off you didn't know at the time, but thanks to Elon Musk's acquisition and the Twitter leagues, we now know that much of those policies in the terms of service modification, as well as the moderation policy shifts were being dictated by a multitude of three-letter agencies.

Now let's back up a little bit further. The whole reason that they felt genuinely righteous in in modifying these things even if you discount the fbi interference and everything else was because they felt genuinely that donald trump had had the election stolen because of russian interference that was also the state that had planted those seeds all fictitious hillary clinton the steel dossier all a lie so you have this entire censorship apparatus that is being rolled out, and you have useful idiots that are actually propagating it based off of deception that is all a CIA plan from the get-go. Now, just to add to what you said, they genuinely believe Trump stole the election. He's a Putin asset, so he must be stopped.

But that narrative itself was created by them. And this is why I have long described Twitter as Jack Dorsey hooking his own sewer system into his own mouth. Dorsey created Twitter with a team and everybody's sharing ideas. Crackpot psychotic refuse is splattered all over the place on Twitter. And Jack Dorsey decides, I'm going to take that funnel and shove it down my throat and starts consuming it. He then adopts the ideology of chaos. Listen, this is the important thing. The TikTok story about Gen Z believing bin Laden was correct because they read his letter proves my point.

There's no way they actually read his letter. If they did, it's all anti-LGBT. They didn't actually read it. They're simply saying they agree with it because they're seeing other people say it jack dorsey saw the same trends decided to abide by them without knowing what he was talking about and that's the left is and he built rules around it which helped propagate the very cult all right before we get into the the osama bin laden letter if i just one thing on on that like and i don't completely disagree with you, but there is kind of like another element into this,

which is that, look, if you look at the state of social media from pre 2016, it was just a different world. And I'm not saying that nobody ever got like banned or kicked off. There were very rare instances where people would go really, really far. Like when people would actually be like advocating like you know nazism and stuff like that where they would get

banned but it was very rare i mean i remember back in the days and of the wild wild west and i say that in the best possible sense of the term as a libertarian love the wild wild west uh but that it was a you could kind of say whatever you wanted to without any fear that like, oh, I better watch myself or I bet I'm good. And of course it was because all of the incentives lined up for social media companies to not want to kick people off. Because it was real competition still. Well, look, the whole thing is they want you to be on their site.

They don't want to kick you off of their site. Now they don't care. But so let me give you the quick, finish your thoughts so I can. Well, so my point is that the rise of Donald Trump, who really tweeted his way to the presidency and tweeted his way to the presidency when the entire establishment said this guy is not allowed to win and ended up winning and used Twitter to drive the entire news cycle through the entire election. Once he won, all of the powerful people in government in the media class, they couldn't

simply accept that, oh, he had a message that resonated with the people, even though we told you there was no way this message would resonate with the people. And we couldn't accept that Hillary Clinton turns out to just be a horrifically corrupt, unlikable, awful human being. And, but this was, I'm just saying this actually happened that they hauled all of the heads of the big social media, the big tech companies in front of Congress and explicitly in front of everybody threatened them with violence. You know, they threatened them with, we will regulate your car. The reason Trump won.

Is because of disinformation. And Russian interference. And you better do something about that. Or else. Many of them threatened nationalization. That was a. That was a factor. Yeah.

In what happened. A major factor. Let me give you the quick rundown. Of what social media started as. Social media website. Post what you want to post. People did. Eventually.

Too many people are posting. Facebook says. People are. Their feeds are cluttered up. Reverse chronological isn't working. We need them to post. People did. Eventually, too many people are posting. Facebook says their feeds are cluttered up. Reverse chronological isn't working. We need them to stay on the website. Algorithms were created. Algorithms will deliver to you content we think you like better. Many of them failed.

The early algorithms of YouTube were, if it gets more clicks, show it more. What happened? Every thumbnail became women in bikinis. I'm dead serious. Right. What ends up happening then is a bunch of companies start emerging. Huffington Post, one of the first. All of a sudden, they're getting massive traffic.

Everyone's clicking their articles. They can read the news now, not through a newspaper, and comment on these stories. What ends up happening? Through the algorithms, Facebook says, share the links that get the most clicks. What happens then? What gets the most clicks? Police brutality videos. Things that make people angry get the most clicks what happens then what gets the most clicks police brutality videos things that in uh make people angry get the most clicks overnight in the early 2010s we end up

seeing my favorite example is mike.com do you guys know that started as a ron paul pro ron paul website yeah you told me about it mike.com started as libertarian pro ron paul and with a component of anti-police brutality because libertarians were very into this eventually however mike becomes social justice why it was getting more clicks to go beyond police brutality this whole machine's always been in play so we can say pre-2016 it was a different story no no you were just and you were walking into the building you just didn't see the bowels well no i'm not so i don't i don't deny that and i think there is part of this that just was an organic force of like how can we get more clicks and more clicks and more clicks but i am saying that like there there was a government intervention and obviously

we know from all of like the twitter files and all of that stuff now that there was massive like government intervention that certainly put their thumb on this scale and said and particularly i'm not just saying about the clickbait stuff i'm more talking about like the tech censorship stuff where they really did crack down on these companies and insist that you like censor dissenting voices and oftentimes let me just say and oftentimes it was dissenting voices who were getting tons of clicks and what you need to understand is the people working for the intel agencies are not like, it's a 30-year-old guy in 2005

who is now a 40-year-old guy in 2015 who went, whoa, we better censor this. It is, in 2015, them hiring a new 30-year-old who's been indoctrinated for 10 years by the refuse machine. A 10-year-old,

a kid born in 2000 gets on the internet, gets on Facebook for the first time in 2010. And what does he see on Facebook? Literally nothing but police brutality videos. Police brutality was so ubiquitous on Facebook that there was a website dedicated to nothing but police brutality videos in the top 500 global websites, making millions of dollars. You're 10 years old, you get on Facebook, and it's all you see. For the next four or five years

in your formative years, the only thing you see, guess what? They're BLM activists now. Now you have critical race theorists and Marxists. Now imagine this. Imagine you're already 10 years old

in 2000 and you're just starting to get on the internet. By the time you're 15, you're being inundated with this stuff. 10 years later, you're 25, you're now working

in these intel agencies. You're out of college. You're interning. This is what weated with this stuff. 10 years later, you're 25. You're now working in these Intel agencies. You're out of college. You're interning. This is what we saw with Bud Light. I predicted this. I said, I'm willing to bet it's going to turn out. I was talking to Vivek about this. It's a young millennial marketing person

who has just brought on and has risen in the ranks and is now trying to push their crackpot garbage into the machine. What did it turn out to be? Exactly that. A millennial woman who said, let's do wokeness and then burn the company to the ground because we don't want these frat boy customers that buy you know millions of cans of our beer every year why are we seeing 16 year olds in san francisco marching through the hallways chanting from

the river to the sea do you genuinely think these kids know anything about israel palestine no they've been indoctrinated by their by their schools let's let's get let's let's go to it baby it's not just there we got it we got a big one point about that after we jump to the next story we can make it well i just want to say you mentioned they're brainwashed by their schools that's that's certainly true in part um i i had the privilege of speaking to dr george barn on my podcast and he's done research on what tends to form the beliefs of the youth in america and what he found is that like without a close second media is basically what shapes their opinions when you look at schools you look at parents you look at churches it's not it's it's far far above all of those things

is media what they're consuming on television basically or on social media and so so here let me let me pull this story from the daily mail we got a lot of stuff to uh point points to make tiktok will scrub videos of anti-Israel Gen Zers fawning over Bin Laden's vile 2002 letter to America because it clearly violates our rules on supporting any form of terrorism. I want to show you this image. In this

image, can you switch over, Serge? It says TikTokers are now justifying, this is from Libs of TikTok, the 9-11 attacks and praising Bin Laden because he was just the resistance. This in in one of his videos it says 2011 me finding out we got him and he's cheering then it switches to this reading his letter to america knowing he was right full stop the point tick tock is doing what we have seen social media companies do quite a bit of they are creating a trend.

And these people have not actually read bin Laden's letter, not even a single word of it. And I know for a fact, I think any sane person can see that what they're doing is instead. Oh, this guy got a million views by saying that. Let me make the same video and get a million views. There's definitely a lot of that. I don't know. I don't think it's a lot. I don't know. There's no way woke leftists read a letter saying ban homosexuality and then said he was right so you're

telling me that you don't believe in woke leftists ability to contradict themselves and like no i'm saying a drop of a dime i'm saying that some of these posts that are prominent come from muslim activists who are saying look he was right they, do you see the video where it was, it was Billboard Chris and the Antifa guy goes up to two Muslim women and says, he's trying to stop kids from being trans. And they're like, we agree. What happens then is because people are getting millions of views, these other young people are like, I want to get millions of views

and just make a fake video claiming they read the letter. I'm not denying that. I'm sure there are people who are doing that. But I'm just making the point that... They can contradict themselves, but I will not... No, but I mean in the most blatant way. And I get that. They can contradict themselves.

No, I mean, I've seen it over and over again. Where the woke leftists can literally sit here and say, like, there's no such thing as gender. And also, I knew I was in the wrong gender from the moment i was born because it's in my brain and you're like these are the complete contradictory ideas we had lance from the serfs on the show who said you can get abortion whenever you want then he said but but a woman can't do meth because it intentionally kills the baby right we've seen these things and everybody loved that clip but i do not believe you can take a statement, ban homosexuality, put it in front of any leftist and say, would you agree with this? I think if they is a reasonable point to be made,

and then it's put into the hands of left-wingers to make that reasonable point, they will make it in the worst way possible. So I think that what's going on, obviously this has to do with the context of what's happening with Israel and Gaza right now, right? Like that's a part of the reason why this is going so far. 16-year-olds chanting from the river to the sea is why they're saying bin laden was right they don't know anything about what they're talking about listen i'm not defending left-wing 16 year olds they're going to say a lot of stupid things but this is the point i think that but i think what the what what the point

should be so i'm i'm with you completely left-wing 16 year olds are stupid that's not that's my point is it is not just 16 year olds we have 37's not that's my point is it is not just 16 year olds we have 37 year old millennials who are indoctrinated in the exact same way yeah they're also stupid no they're also 16 yes no sure sure but listen these are people in the intelligence agencies how old is vindman these are people who are at the cia who are removing donald trump from the presidency because they believe this crackpot BS. I mean, I think I think the people I think the people in the intelligence agencies, even the ones who are removing or trying to remove Donald Trump are much more on board with Israel than against Israel.

But I would say this. Look, I think the kernel of truth here and what a lot of these guys just are trying to get at, but do a horrible job of of getting at it is that look in ben laden's letter to america obviously he's an islamist and he's saying all types of crazy things that a lot of us don't agree with well seamus maybe mostly but the rest of us don't agree with that uh but there are stated grievances in this letter that you have to admit, okay, he probably has a legit grievance here. You understand why this would be fertile ground for recruitment and why almost any people would probably resent this if this was happening to them. Let me read the first one.

As for the first question, why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple. Number one, with a bullet, because you attacked us and continue to attack us. That's the first thing he says. No, no, no, full stop, full stop. I'm sorry, dude. I reject this outright. You can't just read a sentence.

I read the whole thing, Tim. I know exactly what he says. You need to understand what attack us means. And he outlines very clearly in the entire second half, attacking us means stopping Sharia Islam from taking over the world. Well, yes, he also includes 1.5 million kids that starved in Iraq because of the sanction regime. You can't discount that either. My point is, it's like a guy saying, I am attacking you because you kicked my dog. And we're like, wow, you kicked his dog? Why?

And he goes, because I was trying to eat it. And you're like well wait wait hold on this so what's happening is you got a lot of these leftists and glenn greenwald did this too bin laden was mad about u.s foreign policy bin laden was mad about u.s foreign policy in imposing it's it's a western viewpoint and preventing islam it's all in his letter well look okay again there's no question he's a radical islamist and that's all that's that's uh all throughout the letter you can see that there but i think that the issue is that so these left-wingers take it in this direction that's like well he was right and you're like no of course that's not the conclusion the conclusion is he was an insane madman who's obviously like an he's obviously an evil figure there's no getting

around that the point is that obviously within this islamist rhetoric there are also these grievances of and look that you have attacked us that you have bases in our holy land that you uh you prop up brutal dictators in our region that you support the israelis who are are have ethnically cleansed cleansed the palestinians that you uh and then of course the sanctions campaign against the iraqis and all the kids are done now i'm not saying obviously his wishes his wishes are that they would be under sharia law and and muslim control but it's still here's the thing right when it since uh from 9 11 and the years these have slowed down a little bit but for at least 15 years afterward the fbi did all of these um you know sting operations what they were not really

entrapment operations where they claim we foiled another terrorist plot but then you find out that they created the whole thing every time they did it every time they did it go look at how they recruited the person listen they never read them the quran they always said how do you feel about u.s foreign policy in the muslim world the point shouldn't be that osama bin laden's a good guy the point should be that this is why he was able to recruit people who were willing to go blow themselves up and sacrifice and let me and let me point this out when glenn greenwald let me pull up glenn greenwald's tweet says his three main grievances are u.s sanctions on iraq that killed hundreds of

thousands of iraqi children to u.s support for israeli violence and three u.s troops on sacred saudi land that is this is what pisses me off that is i'll tell you what that is that's black lives matter that is michael brown that is blm saying they shot and killed michael brown that's why we're mad that's why we're mad. That's why we're rioting. And then you go, well, hold on there a minute. Michael Brown robbed a liquor store and then attacked a cop. Okay?

So if you're really saying you're mad that he was shot, what you're actually saying is your intention is to be able to freely and willfully rob and attack cops. And guess what? It's actually happening now. So you're saying it's lying through omission. He's not including the full context of the letter. When we get people like Glenn Green greenwald coming out and saying well look bin lobben said they were mad about us for he was mad about foreign policy no no no no no blm comes out and says police are attacking us so we want to abolish the police we're now three years past

the summer of love and what's happening there they just released two guys in new york who mercilessly beat a cop without bail we had a woman who was just killed and i think it was in georgia i'm not sure where it was because the guy got released without bail everything they said they said these cops are killing us so we need to stop this they weren't actually mad cops were killing them they were mad that cops were stopping criminals from doing extremist things okay so i i just don't i don't think the comparison is perfect i get your point on the okay sure so you read the first line you attack us want me to read you the first line of what he defines i'm not going to read the whole thing on the show because it's long but he says uh in the first section under your supervision consent and orders the governments of our countries which act as your

agents attack us on a daily basis one these governments prevent our people from establishing islamic sharia using violence and lies to do so okay two they humiliate us three so when you ask on a daily basis. One, these governments prevent our people from establishing Islamic Sharia using violence and lies to do so. Okay, two, they humiliate us. Three, so when you ask him what does it mean to be attacked on a daily basis, he is not saying

I can't believe that you're shooting at us. He's saying we want Sharia. He goes on to say the whole second half. Number two. Tim, what he's clarifying there is that you're toppling

the leadership that they want. You're basically, they're asking for autonomy. I disagree with them. I get it. But if they want autonomy, if they want sovereignty, then they can have it. So my point is this. These leftists, it all comes down to, have not actually read the letter,

do not actually understand what his goals were. I agree with you that they didn't read it. But let's just say that he has some legitimate grievances. Well, let's say they're all wrong, right? And obviously, any leftist who's going to say, realizing Osama bin Laden was right about everything is like beyond stupid and just it's insane obviously forget any of that if your conclusion from any of that is that therefore it's okay to slaughter innocent people then f you you're a horrible person and you're a madman

but i think the point is what should like like not the leftist interpretation of this but say like the the ron paul interpretation of this which i think he was completely right about and the papu canon like i'm talking about the most right wing and the most libertarian not left wingers at all and the point that they would make is that it's like look there's a the papu canon quote that i love which i think nails it always, right? Is he says, terrorism is the price of empire. And if you don't wish to pay the cost, you must abandon the empire. So I think what you're dealing with here is that, listen, these are a group of people who have a different way of life than us and a different belief system than us. And I'm not defending that way of life or that belief system but when you go over there and you impose your own brutal dictators on them you slaughter their

innocent civilians so but i'm saying but so that's what i think should be gained from this letter those parts are legitimate grievances and my issue is no one disagrees but well some do but my point is here in this room we get it u.s foreign policy has been a disaster afghanistan is the latest in a long line of disasters i think it would be unfair to say every single thing ever done was a disaster but boy did the u.s lose a lot of wars in the past 70 years lose lose lose lose lose but for these leftists to do two things one claim bin laden was right and actually be activists who are pro-palestine who read it well they're lying and they're manipulating and they're trying to

obfuscate what his actual goals were and two the other leftists who are claiming they read it and they thought he was right they did not read it that's just i agree i don't disagree my point that bothers me is people who are arguing that like like glenn greenwald's tweet is irksome that is not bin laden's grievance they are they are they are they are single facts of things that he's using examples of of how we stopped him from having sharia and let me let me read section three i read you section one section three you're a nation that permits the production trading and uses of intoxicants you permit drugs and only forbid the trade of them even though your nation is the largest consumer of them he says uh where was it when you are a nation that permits acts of immorality and you consider them the pillars

of personal freedom you can need to sink down the abyss from level to level etc etc he goes on to say uh if i go uh into the earlier sections you allow fornication, homosexuality, gambling, and usury. Yeah. So when he's mad about U.S. foreign policy, that's like. It's starting to sound like Kanye. When he's mad about U.S. foreign policy, it's not for the reason the anti-war Americans are. I don't agree with that, Tim. If you've read the whole thing, as I have, yes, you're right. He makes a whole bunch of points that I disagree with, but he also makes a ton of points that are totally legit he says you have aggressed upon my people for decades after decades he talks about how how israel was foisted upon the arab world and

that they they oppose the un declaration that made it come to pass i get it i mean like he like yes but my point he has a bunch of shit that i disagree with but then he's got he's a murderous he's a murderous psychopath. But he's also raising some grievances. What he's saying, I compare this to BLM. I don't think the U.S. should be going to foreign countries and doing these things. But the argument from the left is essentially, let us do horrifying things to people. Slave trade, child child marriage all these awful things that's what he's saying right so how dare you stop us so he's so he's wrong and and the he's

a bad guy i mean that should be that should be the conclusion of all this but i will say this my point comes down to leftists on tiktok claiming he was right when his message is he wants Sharia law. So, okay. So the leftists are wrong for claiming that he's wrong for wanting Sharia law, but I just think, so let's, again, those people are wrong, but let's just talk about what's right for a minute. And now I'll say this, this is a point that I tried to make in the debate I did last night with Laura Loomer for Zero Hedge hedge but she was basically just like condemning islam the whole time and talking about and i was trying to just have this moment of being like well look let's just try to be really fair here okay so let's try to think this through and i'm not obviously bin laden's a bad guy but think about what we did after 9-11 how crazy we went as a country like in terms of how what we would support what

our government did what the response to it was that we look back at this now when we go wait so we got essentially missiled bombed with two planes and a world trade center and we we created the department of homeland security and the patriot act and the tsa and the war in afghanistan and the war in iraq which we almost all universally look back on and go whoa that was wrong john mccain in his memoir wrote that the war in iraq was a mistake so almost everybody like acknowledges like we went a little bit crazy after 9 11 and did a whole bunch of bad things a lot of innocent people died over that now Now, try to imagine, and I want you to really try to imagine this, that 1,000 9-11s happened to us. And what that would look like, how crazy we would go,

that's the reality in the Muslim world. Now, I'm not saying this justifies any of this. And if your takeaway of this is that Osama bin Laden is a good guy, you might be an idiot 16-year-old leftist. But I'm just saying that before we sit here and condemn them for how often, and I think this is the point that Glenn Greenwald is trying to get at here, is that it's like, look, what he's talking about in this letter is describing a thousand nine elevens. And if you actually do the numbers in terms of dead, it's probably more than that, but whatever, just imagining that.

And so if we're going to sit here and our reaction to that is going to be like, but you're a radical Islamist and all of this is crazy that you want Sharia law. Okay, fine. And fine. But seeing as what our reaction was just after one 9-11, I don't know that after, you know, after a thousand 9-11s, Seamus gets in control. What do you think he's going to do? Let me tell you, based on the letter, what should these leftists do to remedy what they've

done? And do you know what the answer is? Become straight, convert to is convert to islam explicitly says as second question what are we calling you to do calling you to islam the religion of unification of god bin laden attacked us for two reasons he says because you opposed you've obstructed our the life that we want the rules that we want he says specifically your attacks on us include fornication, gambling, usury, etc. And what do we want you to do now? Join Islam. Okay, but hold on.

Here's the thing. We can ban fornication, usury, but not alcohol. That's what I'm saying. All right. Okay, we might meet in the middle there. But do you think, let me ask you this, Tim.

Do you think, and I mean this in real human terms, like trying to put yourself in the position of these people. Do you think Osama bin Laden was able to recruit people to be willing to suicide bomb themselves to death? Because like, do you think a pretty major factor of that was that maybe they had seen someone who they loved?

Well, what started the first jihad? The first jihad? Yeah. I don't know. Well, I kind of think if you have i i don't know well i i i kind of think if you have i don't know the first jihad which is what was it went on for a thousand plus years and they went from uh the middle east all throughout europe on the to spain i don't i don't know was that caused by a thousand nine elevens was it like oh i think i don't know but i think i think going that far back in history

kind of opposite yes like i have to i have to make this point because in the letter itself, he says, 3,000 of your people die and all hell breaks loose. 1.5 million of our people die and you won't even blink an eye. The point that he's making, setting aside all of the Islamist bullshit, all of the leftist argumentation is that we don't treat them as if they're real people we treat them as if they're lesser and that's true well and and until until we're willing to accept that reality and actually like look in the mirror if i was born in gaza in 2006 i would be of fighting age today and i would have never had any sovereignty whatsoever i'm ruled by hamas

i'm ruled by the idf if i go too close to the border i get shot i would be a complete lunatic anytime you bring this up people say oh you're trying to you're trying to justify terrorism you're trying to you know make it sound as if hamas is the good guys i'm not doing that what i'm doing is i'm putting myself in the shoes of people that have been legitimately oppressed and i'm not talking about the critical theory oppression i'm talking about real effing oppression where your whole life has been done and let me ask you a question why were the marines formed the barbary wars and and what did what what did the sultan say to thomas jefferson which required what resulted in him saying you know what fine then we're forming the marines with the well the pirates were bribed or uh demanding uh ransom when when the american

ships were being attacked by the north african barbary states jefferson and adams many other u.s uh agents were like yo we got no problem with you guys why are you consistently attacking our ships and you know the response was our religion says we're allowed to do it yeah yeah okay so he said if that's what you're going to do i am going to raise a navy and i will wipe you out and it was probably it was probably a big mistake by the way i mean think about the implications of first off he didn't get a declaration of war from congress he just went about it with having thomas jefferson market reprisal that was that was the no no they got kind of it wasn't even mark and reprisal. That was the point. No, no, no. They got kind of, it wasn't even mark and reprisal. It was kind of like almost an authorization of military force type deal.

By the way, the French and the British had forever just been paying those pirates off, paying the ransom. And I think he ended up spending a lot more money on it than if he had just paid them off. So people died and he wasted a lot of money. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. The pirates were the aggressors in that. But here's my issue with this. My issue with when we go back to like, OK, but look in the year 1801, a radical Muslim did this or that.

Here's kind of the problem that look there. Do you guys familiar with the King Crane Commission? No. OK, so the King Crane Commission was after World I. At the end of World War I, I think it started at the Paris Peace Conference, and they were trying to get the British and the French on board, but they kind of pulled out of it, so the Americans just did it without them. But they sent a commission into the Muslim world because the Ottoman Empire had collapsed, and now there were all these territories that used to be ruled by the Ottoman Empire,

and they were kind of going on like a fact-finding mission. Like they went there to just kind of like survey and interview a lot of people and figure out what we're going to do with this part of the world. And there's a few really interesting things that they found. Number one, Syria overwhelmingly voted. And Syria back then was much bigger than Syria today. But so it's like the land Syria is. And then I think a bigger area than that. Overwhelmingly, they said, who would you like to rule you under a League of Nations mandate?

And overwhelmingly, Syria voted for the United States of America. So this narrative that they hate us because we're free is really not very true. In fact, when we were viewed as the ones who weren't the imperialist force remember this is world war one okay they they were like america the city on the hill that's all about freedom and doesn't intervene in our part of the world we love those guys like they had nothing but a positive feeling about those guys and likewise early on if you read the early zionist writers they were not like they didn't consider consider the Arabs to be an enemy. So my point is just that actually a lot of,

I'm not saying every, the problem with when you go back to say like the seventh century, or you go back hundreds and hundreds of years ago, look, they were being barbaric. Then the truth is that everyone was being barbaric. Then if we, if we look at more recent and more relevant history,

you realize that actually there are a lot of this, the Syrians had no problem with America. They hated the British and the French. Why is that? Social media algorithms are resulting in people sharing things they don't understand. Well, I agree use this specific example of Glenn Greenwald, instead of pointing out what's going on, misrepresenting the summation of what bin Laden wrote for the justification of their ideology. I don't think he's misrepresenting it. Oh, he literally is. Well, no, I think he's trying to point out what he views as the most important aspect of that. And I think maybe you're pointing

out what you view as the most important aspect of that i think i'll tell you what i would say what i'm pointing out the letter has two questions the first one is 50 50 between the prevention of sharia law and allowing of homosexuality along with foreign policy from the united states and the second part is that the u.s is not islamic if you're going to claim his three grievances are u.s specific u.s foreign policy actions you are misrepresenting what but he also says that he was he did mention all of those specific grievances that glenn greenwald laid out so my guess would be and maybe this is a more charitable interpretation but i think that what glenn greenwald is saying is essentially that like what kind of my position on this that well obviously it's a given that osama bin laden's a bad guy and an islamist like no one's real i i mean i guess

some crazy 16 year olds are but no normal person is really questioning that that's not the point okay look at his grievances now let me clarify for you again if bin laden says i attacked you because of these things and glenn says actually it was these things that's misrepresentation but he does mention those he does say those things bin laden says there are two main points okay the first being the attacks on us which includes physical and ideological okay and the second half of is you must become muslim and then and then glenn goes actually it was only about u.s foreign policy he didn't say that i'm not asking three points and he names three specific for what i'll tell you what bothers me. What bothers me is when activists with policy ends lie to gain power. I understand.

But it's not a lie as much as you're saying he left out part of it. He mentioned three things and omitted. He explicitly states in his tweet that his three main grievances are. So he claims those are the main grievances. And they're not. There's two main grievances. One is the attack on them and their ideology, both physical and ideological. And the second is that we must convert to Islam.

Right. So when people say they hate us for our freedoms, I think it's stupid and oversimplified. You could say, well, look. And you're saying this is stupid and oversimplified. When we engage in foreign wars which destroy the way of life of people who don't want to live the way we do, we're making enemies. And what they want is for us to convert to their way of life right if if if the united states foreign policy acted in ways that resulted in the benefit of islam bin laden would have been happy and he would have wrote that see here's the issue though possibly up until up until there was decades of interference into the middle east

they weren't actually trying to get us to convert it like yes his letter this aspect of his letter obviously i rejected and i'm not going to become a muslim to acquiesce to osama bin lann's demands good call yeah well you'll be relieved to know he's dead yes well thank goodness but but all i'm taking away from this letter is is what aligns with with reality and what does align with reality is that we have bombed his people for decades. And he does categorize that. He says that the sanctioned regime in Iraq, you guys don't care about this. He says,

we have tried to be civil. We have tried to rationalize with you. I pointed that out. I agree. The point is... But that matters. That's important to talk about. It's broken into two sections. You have physically and ideologically attacked us, and you won't convert. Let me read another section for you. This is section 2A of the second half of his letter we call you to be people of manners principles honor and purity to reject the immoral acts of fornication homosexuality

intoxicants gambling and trading with interest to say his main grievances are specifically u.s foreign policy is wrong i don't is he mad about there was also there were many other speeches and many other letters that he did where he mentioned these grievances over and over so you're right again he's a radical islamist like he's like yeah like i don't know why why are people i'm gonna i'm gonna lay it plainly i am sick of ideologues manipulating information for their personal ideological ends but you're making it sound as if it's not actually listed it he does no i agree it is listed okay there's two sections the ideological and physical attacks as well as we not converting to islam those are the two main what i'm taking what i'm taking from it is what do i have control

over i'm not going to become a radical islamist i'm not going to adapt sharia law what i can do is get my effing state department to stop saying anything to these people. I just explained kind of why I disagree with you. The question is simply this. Would Osama bin Laden are you arguing that he only attacked us because of U.S. foreign policy? I don't think he would have had the capacity to attack us if not

for the radicalization that happens because of our sanction regime. He was a psychopath. I think the reason he was able to recruit enough people who were willing to commit suicide and attacking us was probably blowback but let me say this this i think is essentially my disagreement with you and like you use the kind of black lives matter michael brown analogy i'd look at it kind of like if you were let's say you were trapping someone in your basement and torturing them every single day. And they are, they went crazy and completely lost their mind and wrote some manifesto.

And half of the manifesto was like just the rantings of a madman. And half of it was like, and you came down here and you beat me with a wire every single day. And that's why I'm going to try to kill you. And then that guy came and killed you. I'd go, well, yeah,

I mean, look at the manifesto. He came and killed you because you were torturing him every day whereas someone else could look at that and go no these are the things of a madman i get it but i don't think the analogy is one for one no it's not perfect it's not a perfect analogy but the mike brown analogy isn't a perfect analogy either i'm just saying that that is my point with my point with mike brown is specifically for the leftists who are adopting this and claiming he's right. Yeah, well, they're stupid. And then when people like Glenn come out and say, well, bin Laden was mad about war.

This fuels the indoctrination of moronic millennials. And you keep saying 16-year-olds, but dude, these are millennials who are in their 30s. No, I know. They're still 16, but I get your point. Yes, they're very old 16-year-olds. And they're running for office, and they're in they're and they're chanting these things in the streets. They're in New York celebrating. I get your point on that.

I'm just saying that also. I mean, Glenn Greenwald has like been serving them a heavy dose of reality through all of this. So I don't know. I think it is fair enough. Fair enough. But I'm also saying that I don't technically think he said anything wrong. If you want to say he omitted the fact that Osama bin Laden is also a radical Islamist, I would just be charitable and say,

I think that's a given for sane people. It's not a given for these people that you're pulling up. So fair enough. Anyone who read Glenn Greenwald's tweet would have an incorrect interpretation of the summation of the letter. I think if they only heard your interpretation, they'd have an incorrect summation too.

I gave you the two full points and and and gave you the stuff but there's a lot that's included in there the the sanction regime you didn't mention that was 1.5 million he says you killed we killed 3 000 of yours all of a sudden you care the whole reason that they yes the physical attacks on i know their countries but that detail matters a lot because he's saying he's saying i have tried to have civil conversation you all don't listen to us you only respond to aggression we're going to give you aggression i'm not justifying it and there is a terrible in section one if i'm not mistaken because i i didn't get a chance to read this today when we found it because it's been

scrubbed from the internet it's been years since i've read this and so i'm going off memory but i did think in section one he did list out those three grievances right like i understand there were the two sections but i think he did list out the three grievances of like military bases in saudi arabia hold on a huge part of this is the first grievance is the first palestine is the first grievance is palestine so for glenn to say it's iraq and it's israel and then saudi land when actually the first point was so it should be israel then iraq so it's so it's it's israel it is israel it is israel it is israel okay then it's somalia uh number five is somalia then it's uh uh the next section goes on to be like you guys uh use violence to prevent Sharia everywhere.

But he doesn't talk about a global caliphate. He's not talking. I know. But the point you're bringing up with these specific things, I'm not there yet. I'm in section seven. Not there yet. Eight. Not there yet.

Nine. Palestine still. Ten. Still not there. Still, we want Sharia law and you're blocking Sharia. The next one is, you're stealing our oil and it's the biggest theft of mankind. Okay. Still not those specific military things. But yes foreign policy here we go finally i think we're at point 13 you occupy our countries with military bases and allow jews

you're skipping over number one after like paragraph two where he says because you attacked us and continue to attack us and then he says a you attacked us in palestine and then he starts how many times do i got to say the first section is that we attack them well i know but you're saying you didn't say that you're saying he doesn't do it until the very end that's not true he does do it in the very the points that glenn greenwald made have not even come up after the 15th you're saying that uh the the iraq blockade didn't come up until much later i'm saying that for glenn to make these points that these are the main grievances is glenn choosing subjects that benefit his ideology, and it's manipulative, and I am sick of ideologues who do this. I don't care if you're the left, right, libertarian, up, down, whatever.

I don't care if you're Christian, Muslim, whatever. If you're going to lie to me to steal power, I'm going to call you out for it. Well, I don't think Glenn Greenwald is trying to steal any power. He's trying to impose his ideological values by obfuscating what's actually being said. He has his own bias. When he reads this, he takes away certain notes that he thinks that that's the summation. Can we say screw Glenn Greenwald and let's talk about the substance of this letter for a little bit? And my point is, just using him as a singular example, the left is arguing that bin Laden is right because the first 15 paragraphs are almost entirely about Palestine.

And the context is Israel and Palestine are currently in the hottest conflict we've seen in our lifetimes. And so they are deciding to claim all of his stuff about Sharia and Islam is also correct in its entirety. Look, I mean, look again, I think you can say this and I know there's a tendency for people to kind of characterize what you say, but why is it that this is there's fertile all about how those people over there hate you in large part because of what your government has propped up israel to be able to do in gaza this is probably at least partially

why there's fertile ground for this narrative to catch fire right now and not that doesn't mean it's completely right no it's it's actually not right but here's the problem is that we lied to the american people not we but the fucking government did they didn't tell us the truth about why they were actually upset with us so now you have all of these kids that are growing up going like they hate us because we're free and then they realize oh it's actually not just that it's actually not because it's not true and it hasn't been true from the beginning right so because they were deceived now they go to tiktok to learn history lessons and then they get misled and we're all upset about it well how about we just start by telling the truth my point is social media is indoctrinating young people the millennials and

lower into psychotic beliefs this kid i pointed up did not just say we were lied to he says bin laden was right yes okay now that's stupid and that's what they are saying but here's the really sad thing tim even though you're right and that is insane they're getting better history than george w bush taught him so as as crazy as all of this is at least now they're hearing the other side of the story they're still reaching a very dumb conclusion if their conclusion is osama bin laden was right not read the letter okay i i don't know there's no way of knowing that for sure but there's no there's no reasonable way to say that a leftist agrees with the statement that we must ban homosexuality yeah i agree i agree with you here's why here's why i i think you're you're wrong in a

sense because the leftists will be so hypocritical that almost every situation they look at they have to look at it through who is the oppressor versus who is the oppressed. And whoever is the more white European looking ones is always the more oppressed. And if those two things completely contradict each other, it doesn't matter. So just in general, if a Muslim is being oppressed, then they'll be like,

okay, we're on the side of the Muslim. And then if they feel like a gay person is being oppressed, they're on the side of the gay person and the fact that that muslim and that gay person would not get along very well i just does not like register and i agree with you but it's more mostly about ignorance like when they have queers for palestine and they made the pride palestine flag there's a big difference between not knowing anything and just waving a flag and reading a direct statement that says abandon and

ban if osama bin laden woke up it was like geez it's 8 30 a.m well osama bin laden was right that doesn't mean that he's right about everything he said probably some things in here are correct it's specifically about why they were attacking he seems pretty honest the palestine stuff but then we got to be clear he didn't say that they're fighting us because we won't adopt sharia part of it is you won't let us practice our sharia in our countries of choice so we will fight then the part on the second part what are we calling on you to do now is like adopt sharia they're pissed they're beyond the pale at that point yes because he says you guys have aggressed so so consistently and you don't listen to reason you don't listen to rational discussion you don't want to have any negotiations you want to be you don't want to be

civil at all think about this we we phrase these radical jihadis as the most uncivil, barbaric people on the planet. They look at us, the Americans, and they say, y'all aren't civil. Think about how crazy that is. The head choppers in Syria think that the American empire isn't civil. People need to internalize this. Actually think about what they're saying there. That's profound. That's profound that they think that we are the barbarians on earth like take it in for a second for real

you know this is something that i kind of like came across in in the debate i was doing last night and there's part of this uh thing where people look we are unquestionably say the united states of america and and is and Israel compared to the Muslim world in which we've fought a lot of wars over the last couple decades. We are undeniably much more advanced, much more sophisticated, much more systematized,

and they are much more primitive than us. And so it's very easy for people to go like, you know, people who are on, say, like the pro Israeli side of the argument, if you go, well, look, I mean, Hamas killed all these people. I think that's really wrong what happened on October 7th. But then look, Israel's killing all these innocent people in response. And I think that's wrong. It's very easy for them to be like, no, no, no, no, no. That was barbarians targeting civilians and this is collateral damage done by military strikes and it's very easy in the western world to feel this difference that like

well that no but that's just different you know what i mean this is kind of like look this is bad policy or they don't they don't feel that difference or even good policy that happens to have these negative you know um results but if those are your kids and your sisters and your mothers and your wives who are dying as a result of that policy it is very easy to say that is every bit as barbaric that is every bit as evil as whatever you know what i mean like could be done in return well it's even so brutal because you're coming from a very poor place like the people in gaza are so destitute you have a full sanction regime all they've dealt with is bombardment year after year sniper fire these people have been radicalized and we and we refuse to just look in the damn mirror and say

why why is this happening Can we do anything to actually intervene on behalf of these people as opposed to just going, look what Hamas did. Let's flatten everybody. Let's continue the cycle of death and destruction. All I'm calling upon people to do is to actually reflect on what got us here. That doesn't justify anything. It doesn't say that Hamas are the good people. It says, can we stop this cycle of violence can we and for a lot of people the answer is no we can't i reject that please religious man back me up here i can't speak and this is what i well i can't say it's been hard to get a word in edward but i can't speak to the the specific history of the israel palestine conflict because i don't know much about it but what i will will say is you can acknowledge that Islam has a unique problem of violence while also looking at the United States, seeing our own

history, recognizing that, for example, in 2001, when New York was attacked, we felt that was an attack on our whole country and rightly so. I have friends born and raised in Georgia who fought up, who enlisted to fight in a war in the Middle East because people who they'd never met in their entire lives and probably never would were killed in a different state. Same. And so it's reasonable to say that even if I don't agree with their cause, for them as people to have their neighbors or family members killed in these conflicts

and then have that result in them wanting to take up arms against the West, well, it's not something I'm saying I agree with Osama bin Laden. It is to say that that's predictable. Yes, exactly. Look, all of the wisest people who predicted everything that's gone wrong over the last 30 years in america i mean like all of the best people like the pat buchanan's and the ron pauls and like all of the guys who stood up and were right about all of this stuff they always said like again to mention that pat

buchanan quote that terrorism is the price of empire and if you want and this is all of it this isn't an islamic like problem look at the the irish when the british were dominating them he like literally pointed at my alcohol by the way when he's like look at the irish look at these sloppy drugs okay but right okay this this is true all around the world terrorism is is almost always the tool of the dominated like this is what this is what they have left in their arsenal and i'm not saying that they might have some goofy beliefs that also go along with that because when people get desperate they tend to cling to whoever the most radical person around

trying to recruit them is let's clarify the george bushian terrorism was insurgents and militants have attacked our military. That's terrorism. They call it a terror attack when a bomb is planted in a military. Hold on. If our military is being attacked by foreign fighters in a foreign country that we invaded, that's not terrorism. They're calling it that because they want to win a political point. Terrorism is, why did Hamas target the music festival?

That's terrorism targeting civilians intentionally for the purpose of gaining leverage over your enemy terrorizing the people in the country to win political power they want they want to inflict terrorism they want to inflict as much damage as possible on civilians because they know that the reaction will be catastrophic and because of that the rest of the arab world and the muslim world may rally to the defense that is the that is exactly what terrorism is is designed to do blumenthal said max blumenthal said that hamas targeted music festival is a target of opportunity knowing they could use civilians as leverage against the israeli government and uh i think the general assessment is hamas wanted to disrupt the abraham accords and they wanted to force like the united states what do they do but biden promises 100 million

dollars to the strip and the west bank of which a lot of that will flow into the hands. Yeah. But look, I mean, again, and this is just to be clear here. If I, if you ever say, put yourself in their shoes, this is not saying therefore they're right about everything. I'm just saying to understand the situation, what were the Abraham accords really? Okay. For years, okay, even when I was a kid, under Yitzhak Rabin, who was the prime minister of Israel, and from way before then, the entire framing of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians

was basically that, look, there is this resentment within the Arab world that Israel illegitimately got this land and kicked all of these Muslims off of this land to create their country and then continued. Not only did they take what the UN partition recommendation recommended by force, but then they took way more than that and then way more than that by war. And this isn't right. And all these Arabs should be allowed to return. That's their perspective okay and forever and all the way up to yitzhak rabin in the 90s the idea was that look we have to either make peace or kind of pretend to make peace or at least act as if

we're offering a two-state solution here before we can ever make peace with the broader Arab world. The Netanyahu strategy was to go, screw that. We're never making peace with these Palestinians. You'll never get your state. We're going to support Hamas just so you don't get your state. And what we're going to do is try to buy off with U.S. taxpayer dollars the rest of the Arab world to abandon your cause and recognize us and normalize relationships with us even though we will never give you your state is that bad well i'm not saying forget even the more yes i do think it's bad but forget even the moral judgment

for a second i'm saying put yourself in the shoes of the palestinians this deal is now to buy off your last lifeline which would be these surrounding arab countries and that you will never get you there's no more hope you will be dominated forever so of course they would want to break up yeah what do people without hope do yeah radical things and and my point is just the distinction between the george bushy and description of terrorism when they say oh some iraqis just blow up a truck they're radical things and and my point is just the distinction between the george bushian description of terrorism when they say oh some iraqis just blow up a truck they're terrorists it's like well dude you're you're an invading military force in a country so you're saying they're defending themselves versus people who are aggressive i'm saying military action is different from

people civilians targeting civilians explicitly for for for gain oh i completely agree with that but i'm i'm not even saying you don't have to define them the way i'm defining i'm saying there's a distinction between two sure and typically in american foreign policy they say oh what when people refer to the george bush era definition of terrorism when they when they were saying things like you'll get terrorism well they were talking in the news about iraqis or afghanis bombing u.s military targets and then the media would call that a terrorist attack because it scared people in the same way 9-11 did sure no but when i was referring to pat buchanan's quote he was talking about 9-11 he was talking about the african embassy

so i get your point look if you're fighting off an invading army is a very different thing than attacking people in a country that's dominating your country what i what i what i guess the the broader point is 9-11 was a terrorist attack they attacked civilian targets they killed thousands of civilians and then that freaked americans out to a great degree yep the u.s then invades for some reason iraq whatever and when the iraqis resist the reason they call it terrorism is to invoke the same sense of dread and fear in Americans that they felt from 9-11. Yeah, even though it's a military. Which is absurdly unfair to the Iraqis who had every right to defend themselves from the American empire that was attacking them for no reason at all.

In hindsight, zero reason. There's a reason. Please. Yeah. We set up military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan surrounding Iran because we also want to attack Iran. Well, that's right. There were a lot of lot of reasons but look i think they're not good ones i think like like and and this is what i try to say with this when you first start if you're if you're trying to first start understanding the whole thing and then because you got to understand

it before you can really know what the correct policy is but if you understand because really like i remember um there there was i was on a, I used to, I was a contributor on Essie Cup show, which she had a show on CNN back in, this was like in 2017 or something like that. And there was like this- I'm such an OG Dave Smith fan. I watched every single episode. Well, you're one of the 17 people who watched that show.

That's me, buddy. That's me. It didn't go great great but it was good money it was a good time and i you know it was it was fun for me at the time um but there was this isis attack in new york city and a very on the scale of terrorism a very minor one i mean it was i i don't remember the crash yeah it was a truck crash and he jumped out and he hit someone with the van then jumped out and shot off a gun and he said he was isis but like even that it wasn't even like really connected it was like a crazy person here who happened to be muslim who happened to say i'm

with isis and um so we're going around this panel and i was just making the argument about how you know like you know we always say we have to attack him over there so we don't have to fight him over here but the more we fight him over there the more we're fighting him over here and how there's kind of this cycle of blowback. And then there was this democratic strategist who was next to me. I went off on a rant out of the way I tend to do. And then he just goes to me and he goes, yeah, but I don't, I'm sorry,

but so you're just saying we have to do nothing? You're saying the response to this is we have to do nothing? I think we have to do something. And that was all he said. And this was like a professional democratic strategist and that was his takeaway it was like you like it literally i felt like a caveman was next to me like you go you say nothing i say something and and i went okay something is superior getting rid of our bases isn't nothing right well right but well yeah i but i kind of looked at and i was like well look but do you see how you're feeling right now we gotta do something and what do you mean by something

you mean kill some people yeah like it's like our people got killed what are you saying we don't go kill some of their people and don't we totally understand right everyone totally understands where after october 7th what's the israeli response flatten gaza right what are the calls from all the politicians are you out of your mind are these innocent and by the way i'm saying i understand that response i understand look dude when you look at those pictures of of babies who died on october 7th i look at those pictures, I see my kids' faces in those kids' faces. It's horrific. I think to myself, how would I feel if those were my kids?

And I'll tell you, I'd feel exactly that way. I'd feel exactly that way. Somebody better die over this. And I don't even really care if some innocent people get killed. Whoever did this better die over this. But then look at the babies of the dead Palestinians and just understand,

if for nothing else other than just for strategic empathy understand it so you know what's going on here that they also feel that way about their kids and i'll to be honest i also see my kids faces in those dead palestinian kids faces and it's like okay so once you understand that, you recognize that you're like, this whole cycle is only going to continue until we recognize that there's actually, sure, they might be Islamists and we're more secular or something like that. listen the fundamental thing that's going on here is something that unites us more than divides us that we're both responding to the fact that our people got killed and now we got to go kill your people and we want to protect our children that's a very human instinct regardless of our cultural differences i know we got to go to super chats but before we do that i just want to say real quick look i'm a finance guy all of the inflationary pressures that we're dealing with right now are a product of our

empire. The dollar reserve currency status, whether you care about the Palestinians or the Israelis, it's really irrelevant for your own family's sake, for the sake of everyone you know and love when it comes to your capacity to save and invest and retire, buy things. Everything is predicated off of whether or not the American government and the American people are willing to be adults about the situation that we stand in today, and we say, we can't continue down this path.

It's totally self-destructive. It's actually suicidal what we're doing to ourselves. So we have to take a non-interventionist position moving forward, not just for the sake of the world, but also for ourselves. And I'll end. Can I just say one last thing before we go to Super Ch and i'll try to keep this as brief as possible but i know tim that like even in some areas where we may like have some slight disagreements on this because i i

listen to the show regularly and i know that you are completely me and you totally agree on what the american policy on this should be which is that you're like this is not our fight we should not be involved on this like yes yes Send a fleet to Italy or something. Why on earth are we, when we're $30 plus trillion in debt, trying to get involved in every single fight and fund every other country and all of this? But I will just say this, because I mentioned the King Crane Commission before. So the King Crane Commission, one last thing that was really interesting about their findings. Have you read this, Clint? No. It's really good.

You should check this out. I'm going to. Fascinating. So they go after world war one so the balfour declaration has already been made where the british basically said uh we it pleases the king that the jews have a homeland in palestine as long as they don't violate the the rights of the non-jewish population there and one of the things that the king crane commission came back after interviewing and surveying thousands of people in Palestine

is they came back and they gave this recommendation to Woodrow Wilson, who was the president at the time. And they were like, listen, Mr. President, let me just tell you about this Balfour Declaration. It is unworkable. Because there is no way that the Zionist project can go forward while being consistent with the rights of the non-Jewish people in the land. And they said it will take an army, a military not only committing yourself, but you're committing America to supporting

force against the Arab population to create and maintain a Jewish state here. So basically what they were saying, now Woodrow Wilson ended up having a stroke and being incapacitated, best thing he ever did in his administration but then he never got this uh this message but i'm just saying when they said to create and maintain they basically said if you're going to support israel what is now israel you're committing in perpetuity oh yeah to commit force against this part of the world and i think that's something that we have to recognize. It might be worth it, but understand that there is a cost

that comes along with that. We're going to go to Super Chat, so smash the like button, subscribe to the channel, share the show with your friends, go to timcast.com, click join us, because if you thought this one was rowdy, wait till we can swear.

Actually, I think we were already swearing. I've been holding it in so much. Wait till Dave and Clint can say all the naughty words. Like control demolition. The dirtiest words I can think of. But also, especially check out tomorrow's Culture War episode on Tenet Media, where we're going to have Scott Horton and Will Chamberlain debating Israel. But we'll read your super chats now.

Clint Torres says, how do people? Tim, I'll be leaving the country tonight for a few days, so there will be ample opportunity for others to pretend to be the fastest. Ah, that's right. Clint is always the first super chat. Thinking about you last night, Clint. Yeah, I've been doing that from my phone at home. I am actually Clint Taurus, so that's awkward. That's you, huh? No, I'm just

kidding. I just thought it'd be funny if it were. Volsiferon says the Alex Jones video game is hilarious. Yeah, did you guys see this? No. I haven't. I heard about it. I saw that there was some hubbub about it, as the kids say, haven't seen the game what do we have here we'll grab some more super chats all right let's scroll down uh alpha turkey saying the osama thing with gen z is wild it's wild it's certainly one way to say it yeah all right curtis c says white wheelchair santa is 1.40 more than black wheelchair santa that's patriarchy really hmm tn the husky says lauren is a lot of passion but she is unable to

listen and understand other points of view 30 going on 13 seems like lauren laura loomer i think i think they mean laura because you mentioned laura loomer oh yeah yeah they're talking about when i argued with you and Lauren Southern on culture war. Yeah, that was my first thought. I don't think they're talking about Lauren Southern. They were creator of influence. All right. Augusto Mimiche says it's my birthday

and I can't think of a better birthday gift than having Dave Smith on IRL. The only thing I ask for is Dave's Trump impression. I don't really do a very good Trump impression. Nobody does. Give me Trump getting us out of the Middle Eastern wars. Tim does the best Trump impression. Yeah, Tim Dillon.

No, not Tim Dillon. Fucking. Tim Poole. Shane does the best. Oh, yeah. Shane's is incredible. Shane Gillis is wild. I have people.

I mean, I guess if that's what people are implying. It's great. I don't think so. Maybe we'll do it in the members only and we'll see if I can. I kind of feel like I can do impressions if no one tells me to do an impression. You know what I mean? Yeah, I didn't mean to prompt you. I'm just saying you're very good at it.

People are like, so people love my Pelosi impersonation. Because my Pelosi impersonation is just intended to make her sound as disgusting as possible. That Trump is so disgusting. And it's not really meant to impersonate her. It's uncanny. Dude, we played poker last time I was here. Sometimes those are the best impressions. I feel the same thing that I feel when she speaks yeah that's what an impression we played poker the last time i was here and these

two were just doing trump impressions back and forth that's true yeah i mean it's him by the way happy birthday to the guy who said oh yeah mr mimesha himself yeah shamus and i were doing this thing where it was trump and mini trump and then i would do a trump impression impersonation and then he would do a higher pitched version of it but then I guess he found out someone actually already did a bit. Yeah, I think Zach Hadel already did a bit like that. That's unfortunate. Happy 70th birthday to

my dad, Charlie. I didn't get to see you last week. I love you very much. Happy birthday. I am the voice of Dr. Anthony Fauci on the recurring cast member on Freedom Tunes. But what happened was like Trump was like the reasonable one. And then mini Trump was like the far more offensive, like awful one. He's just saying all the terrible things the media wants you to think Trump would say.

So Trump would be like, no, we don't hate all of them. Like, yes, we do. We hate all of them. It was a lot of fun. And then eventually mini Trump has Trump arrested. I forgot about Tiny Trump. Tiny Trump like takes over. He's like, we're getting rid of the big Donald no arrested. I forgot about Tiny Trump. Yeah. Tiny Trump, like, takes over. He's like,

we're getting rid of the Big Donald no more. We don't need him. All right. Jesus Crisp says, I plan on hanging spoons with care on my chimney this Christmas. If I'm really good and Catholic this year, maybe Seamus will make a visit.

And yes, there will be a potato and Irish whiskey. Oh, I caught the cat yesterday. Nice job. And we named it Seamus. They said they're going to name the cat Seamus. Dude, you want to hear a really funny story? My friends, I went over to their house once,

and they had this little disabled goat, and they're like, yeah, we named him Seamus. And they were convincing me they named it Seamus. Turns out it was totally not his name. His name was Gibbous, but for a while, I was like, honored. They thought that that was going to make me feel bad. I was like, that's a great name for him.

I got to read this one. George M. says, wtf is going on left-wing civil war right-wing civil war shamus on timcast no elections boys can be girls kids praising terrorists and all i really want to know is what does she bring to the table thank you if you guys want to understand that reference go over to youtube.com freedom tunes check out our newest cartoon i think you'll enjoy it so now I'm gonna get to the part of the show where I only read the super chats that agreed with me okay sorry I like let's go

no but there is one and we'll see there's certainly a lot they're calling me stupid our good friend real hydro is just calling me the lowest IQ guy in the room so respect we appreciate the money I'm not your buddy guy says Tim is more right thumbs up then Tim is more right than you think.

Sadly, then real hydro says Tim is an idiot and low IQ. So we'll definitely make sure we get some of those in. And let me try and find a good one. Let's see. Let's see who sends someone money to say that. I'm sorry. I mean, like, that's the lowest IQ thing I've ever heard in my life. I don't think you're smart.

Here's my money i mean like real real hydro is a regular in i love you real hydro i'm not hey i'm just more money to him to tell him how dumb he is just teasing oh but but he he probably gives like a hundred bucks a day to insult me that's awesome i'm just like all right subscribe to liberty lockdown hydro i need your money i'll tell you though there's a weird relationship with the whole internet and everything it's something the mix between like anonymity and internet shows where i know people who will literally like do the same thing like insult me on twitter every day but then they'll be like this thing like they'll be like ah dave such an idiot. At one hour and 13 minutes on his last episode, he said this, which is totally wrong.

And you're like, dude, you're a fan. I've got the term. You're an hour and 13 minutes into this. What is this relationship where you consume all of my content and then try to hurl insults at me the next day? It's so strange. Imagine when we were a kid, if we could just be like larry david that last episode of seinfeld sucked and i'm just i mean here's 20 bucks but like i really think like you should have tied the show together but you're a real bum though it's so bizarre the whole thing is so bizarre it's a para anti-social relationship they're trying to be on

parasocial they try to incite you to respond because they want to hear you respond to them. It gives people like, I do exist. I am something. But I found if you respond to the negativity, then they're like, that's what gets his attention. They'll do more of that. That's a good point. You know what Ryan Long said to me? This is a hilarious.

Ryan Long, we were talking after the show at one point. He's like, I'm pretty sure after two years, no one has fans anymore. They all just hate you and talk crap about you in your comment section. I was like, that's the funniest thing I've ever heard yeah there's something about so uh here we have relate michael o pinkerton says watching dave calmly speak while tim is shouting makes me even more disappointed that he couldn't run for president yeah well all right to be fair i don't think tim was shouting was he no but i'm gonna read that i'm gonna write it because i'm also disappointed have you found peace with your decision not to run yeah you know i mean

it's uh it was a big it was a big decision and there's definitely uh it was a tough one you know there's like a lot of decisions like we all have in our careers you know we kind of got to make decisions of like okay i'm gonna do this or i'm gonna do this moving forward and i've always been pretty good about um you know like okay i'm not gonna live in the past i made this decision close that door this one was hard i was very seriously considering it for quite a while and then just when it was time to like be like okay i got to officially make the decision there was just a lot of family stuff going on that i was just like i don't think this is the right thing and i'm before i'm anything else i'm a husband and a father and so that was kind of like what i decide i erred on. But look, man, I feel bad in the sense that I disappointed. I know there were a lot of people who wanted me to, but I'm I'm nothing but blessed and

fortunate. I have an amazing family. I have an amazing career. I get to do everything I love to do. So I love where I am. And also, I still do think that like I still do really really think the libertarian party is going to do incredible things. I think the Mises caucus has been incredibly successful movement. I'm supporting Michael Rechtenwald, uh, for president.

I think he's a great candidate by far the best candidate, uh, running. And I think he's going to be the libertarian nominee. So, you know, it, it wasn't in the cards for 2024. I appreciate all the people who were very enthusiastic. It's particularly you, Tim, who are always, I know you were like way in on the day. Waiting for you to announce. Come on, man. Yeah. I appreciate all the people who were very enthusiastic. It's particularly you, Tim, who are always, I know you were like way in on the day. I appreciate that. Wait,

wait, wait. Particularly Tim pool. Clint Russell was just like dying to see. I think you can. I'm sorry, Clint, were you on this episode?

Oh my God. Hello. Like Liberty lockdown. Oh, I know you. What's up buddy. Gandhi didn't need to be president to change the world like you can be just needed to sleep with nine-year-olds in his bed so would you consider

aiding i'm sorry guys it's history i gotta read some more superchats i'm sorry let's let's we got we got the members only coming up i'll ask you later but i want to try and get as many people in um uh dr or is it d rad max says tim uh to remind you of your own words the left has no values they're just spewing new thing and i actually think that's fair to say seeing a lot of these leftists blindly just claim that bin laden was right without actually knowing what they're talking about is maybe not absolutely because some of these videos are from people who say they're muslim from muslim countries and they're surprised now that this video is coming out or this letter's coming out but some of these people are just like dude you did not read that well yeah

but you know but again the point I'm trying to make is I almost see this as consistency on their part like do you remember like do you remember uh when James consistently right right no James Lindsay like reprinted Mein Kampf and they agreed with it you know what I mean like this is my point you're right right yeah the wokeness is the social orthodoxy of the liberal of the left liberal faction right there that's that's it and so that means when you know even to jay when james lindsey is like well the left believes these things and these things i'm like no no no they don't that's why why is it that the same people who are you know woke are also flying ukrainian flags whatever current thing is that and you know and one of the things that's really kind of like uh entertaining in a dark way is that

the debate on the left right now when you have like kind of leftist like uh jews or leftist like pro-israeli types versus leftist pro-palestinian types is that they've all there's so much atrophy from like the last like 15 years that they can't even have a debate so all they have to do is try to outwoke each other yeah you know what i mean like the the jews will be like we're the oppressed minority and then they'll be like no we're the oppressed minority like you should be canceled no you should be canceled and it's like this is the only tool they have left in their tool belt it's really it's sad it puts me in a terribly challenging position to try and make the pal argument without being categorized as one of these people,

because I don't have anything in common with them otherwise, but I think they happen to be right just for the wrong reasons. X, Y, and Z says, you fail to understand that Islam's goal is to subjugate everyone to Islam. It is not a banal live and let live ideology. It's like communism. You're right. They are so freaking horrible and let me tell you something about how much better our culture is is that the united states of america would never try to subjugate the rest of the world to our goals right i mean like come on dude it's like it's so easy to just pass this blame off on some other culture while we're doing it who's actually

taking over the world they try to conquer us it's like as we conquer all of them. Dude, what part of the world? There are a couple sections on the freaking globe that the U.S. Empire. But I'm just saying, a couple sections on the globe that the U.S. Empire doesn't dominate. And we are every single day demonizing them, trying to move in on dominating them. So I'm sorry. It doesn't change anything. No, I'm not saying it does. But no American gets to just point the finger over at them and say you don't understand the nature of their ideology and i agree sorry so i do that i uh and i agree with uh to a great degree this comment that it is a lot

like communism and it's different because it's a religion and communism is just people trying to steal power communism's kind of a religion too but sure i get your point but i mean like one's got a god at least and one's got scripture and um but my my thing is and i'll say this about israel having power doesn't make you inherently wrong or evil it's it's what you're doing and so for the united states it uh i agree with you the u.s is doing all of these things it is bad it would be bad if anyone else did it and so we shouldn't be doing it yeah 100 but it's just like kind of a weird thing else did it and so we shouldn't be doing it yeah 100 but it's just like kind of a weird thing where like it's like if you i don't know like if you were like taking away like kicking like a schizophrenic person out of their house and as

you're kicking them out of their house you're going you know that that guy wants to take my house it's like yeah but you're actively taking his house like how do you get to do that and so i'm not even denying that yeah there's radical islamists who would totally love to take over the world and take over and enforce sharia law in the whole world okay there's no threat of that happening so let's deal with reality yep all right let's read some more what do we have here what do we have here um ryan renner says i Ian's Tim cast coffee should be the instant freeze dried crystals since you love crystals so much. That's funny.

I don't like instant coffee though. I want a low acidity, maybe coffee, something like that. How would we do that? Like a dark roast? Well, there's just certain types. I don't know how they're made, but certain types of coffees are very low acidity. You can avoid the burn. I got it.

I got to give an honorable mention as we do, because you were talking about, you saw what Bethany Mandel tweeted, right? I don't think so she said the only, I'm paraphrasing, the only reason not to nuke Gaza is that the fallout would harm Israelis. Oh I saw that I mean there's certainly not sane thought happening there and Lindsey Graham saying, you know, turn Gaza

to glass or flatten Gaza and all this stuff look, there's horrible rhetoric on all sides coming out of this. Lindsey Graham saying with or without evidence we should bomb around yeah which is really i mean lindsey graham is as crazy as any jihadist as any jihadist he's absolutely out of his mind he's been in power forever yeah i mean again and that's not to give cover to one side to point out the other but it's like point out how crazy both sides are crazy but you will see within like kind of the corporate media where there's so much attention paid in fact people will go on and it'll just be like

they said river to the sea what does river to the sea really mean to you and then someone will be like well okay look i mean it could mean that they think all of israel should be returned to the muslims or it could mean they want to genocide everyone it could but it's like well what does flatten gaza mean what does turn gaza to glass nicki haley said that means finish them but what does that mean like what exactly like how many innocent there is over 1 million kids in gaza right now let me so like what are we talking about here's a here's a good for you nathan uh brewbaker says dave given that we've been funding ukraine do you think they'll be our next enemy well dude listen you they based off the intro to your show you have to say yes look uh look there's no

question they're already our enemy i mean they're already are but listen the the ukrainians have part of who we've been funding are the you want to talk about the radical right-wing elements in the ukrainian forces i mean the as of and that you know i mean this is a you know like straight up neo-nazi groups i'm not saying that's all of ukraine i'm not sure they're going to exist ukraine forget even our enemy because that is my tagline one of the things in my show is if you want to know who our next enemy is look at who we're funding right now well look who there was just an article this week saying that ukraine were the ones who pulled off the nordstrom pipeline bombing right now i don't know if i believe that uh but that's a a terrorist attack on a european uh ally right

so yeah this is how the cycle always works and um by the way look at uh it applies to israel too funding and propping up hamas and now look where they are we're here funding Israel at the moment when we had Majid Nawaz on he made a really interesting point about this where he said what we're essentially doing is we are arming and giving combat training and combat experience to neo-nazis all we do all the media wants to discuss is radicalization and how there's going to be some kind of far-right uprising in the United States. Look what we're actually doing. We're literally arming Nazis.

Here's the important point, though. We've been doing that in the Wahhabi sect of Islam forever. That's what we do. And the point Majid was making is after the war in Ukraine is over, Azov does not disappear. You still have a bunch of neo-Nazis who have combat training. To be fair, a fair amount of them have disappeared yeah but uh that's but yes and you're you know and it's pretty funny that like you know uh the same people who call anyone right of center who disagrees with them a neo-nazi here who have supported this but you know propping up of the ukrainian side of this proxy

war where make nothing but excuses for them like i've literally seen uh what's her name uh kathy uh was the one who debated scott horton kathy kathy young young uh and she's and she's the most like goes after all these right-wingers rights for like bulwark or whatever and scott horton at one point brought up like at the azov batt. And he was like, uh, he goes, uh, he brings up the Azov battalion and she goes, I don't want to discuss the Azov battalion right now. And he's like,

of course you don't. You don't, you don't. And then she goes, but it's so funny. Cause she'll attack any right wing group, like here in the United States of America. And she's like,

yes. Was the group founded by a Nazi? Um, yes, it's true, but they later moved away from that.'s like so now i watched it live by any trump supporter is a nazi but a literal neo-nazi like a guy walks by with a swastika tattoo on your neck and you're like tattoos don't really mean that much you know it's just it's

goofy it was incredible no it's true it's true it's very sad but it goes back to what you were saying earlier and it's actually a point i was going to make while you guys were talking but you made it before i could get to it which is basically that their only assessment of morality in any given situation is what the power dynamic is and so in this instance because the nazis in ukraine are on the other side of the power dynamic they're not actual nazis like nazi means in power for whatever reason anytime any like nazi actually just means bad like nazi right wing bigoted homophobic those words all just mean well it's also crazy like how one of the things that's

really kind of funny is that the big claim of the people look i'd say just like the majority of the political establishment was supporting ukraine in this war and is now supporting israel in their war and in the ukrainian war they go vladimir putin cannot take territory by war right and then they go israel has a right to defend itself no no you're like how did they get all their territory by war george w bush's freudian slip where he was roasting Vladimir Putin and launching an unjust invasion of Iraq. I mean, oops. You can even see in that moment where he was like,

I'm going to go to hell. I got one last one for you that will light a fire under you before we go. All right. Legamas says, bottom line, the modern West is the primary force

which prevents the rebirth of the Rashidun Caliphate. People like UBL will never forgive the west for that and the west should never seek forgiveness for this the west must keep the caliphate down at all costs okay well then here would be a good idea well listen if you if the idea is to keep the caliphate down at all costs may i humbly suggest a policy of not funding them, not funding, arming, training and propping them up, which by the way,

is what we did, not just in 1979 and 1980 to try to take out the Soviets in Afghanistan, right? We funded the Mujahideen, the precursor to Al Qaeda, but that, and this really started with the George W. Bush administration in around 2006 after their dumb ass war in Iraq led to the Shiites taking full control in Iran.

And then they realized they had to do the redirect and start siding with the Sunni radicals. But then under Barack Obama in Libya, in Syria, in Yemen. He sided with Al-Qaeda, directly funded Al-Qaeda and ISIS in Syria. That's what led to the caliphate. So look, if you want to sit here and say the biggest threat is the Islamic caliphate, okay, why did it happen? It happened because we overthrew Saddam Hussein,

who was a bulwark against it. We overthrew Muammar Gaddafi, who was a bulwark against it. We overthrew Muammar Gaddafi, who was a bulwark against it. We tried to overthrow Bashar al-Assad, who was a bulwark against it, right? We did everything and then directly funded them. So how about we stop doing that if you're so concerned about it? And how about Netanyahu doesn't fund Hamas? We're going to go to the members-only show, so go to TimCast.com, click Join Us, because now they're going to get to swear about all of this on top of everything.

It's been so hard not swearing. So hard, huh? So again, Timcast.com. We'll be live up in a few minutes. You can follow the show at Timcast IRL. You can follow me personally at Timcast. Smash the like button, guys. And Dave, you want to shout anything out?

Part of the problem is my podcast. Go check out my debate last night with Laura Loomer from Zero Hedge if you haven't already. And ComicDaveSmith.com to come see me live doing stand-up comedy by you. Dave's latest hour is the best work he's ever done. Make sure you go see him. Thank you. At Liberty Lockpot on Twitter. Yeah, subscribe, follow, do all that.

Liberty Lockdown is the show. Please subscribe. Follow it on YouTube, Rumble everywhere else. Tower Gang on Wednesdays. It's insane. Maybe don't subscribe. Whatever. And then thebestpoliticalshow.com

or we are changed all one word on Rumble and YouTube with Luke Krakowski. We're going to have on Jackson Hinkle on Sunday night. Do not miss it. My name is Seamus Coughlin. I have a YouTube channel called Freedom Tunes. I make animated political cartoons. Please go on over there. The new cartoon is doing decently well. People are really laughing

at it. I enjoyed it a lot. If you see it and you like it and you want to support what i do become a member at freedomtunes.com you'll get an extra cartoon each week and we are also launching a behind the scenes podcast that i think you'll enjoy if you're a fan and uh follow me at ian crossland on the internet so anywhere pretty much every day at one o'clock i'll do an interview with somebody cool i talked to forrest cooper today went for like two and a half hours talking about battlefield tactics and so much more the philosophy of combat and the basically the philosophy of violence it was very very interesting also it was invigorating to be in the room with two future american presidents i'll let you guys decide who those two people are

gonna be me and tim tim always always happy to be here. Shamus. Alone on a hill. And I'm Serge.com. I've been hanging out in the corner watching you guys go at it. It's been fun as always. Yeah, cheers. See you guys in the after show. We'll see you all at TimKess.com in a few minutes. Thanks for hanging out. you