Timcast IRL - Trump To Deploy National Guard To Portland, Antifa Has Been WIPED OUT w/ Doug Wilson

Episode Date: September 6, 2025

Tim, Phil, & Ian are joined by Doug Wilson to discuss Trump to deploy National Guard troops to Portland, Oregon, Speaker Mike Johnson revealing Trump was an FBI informant against Epstein, ICE raiding a Hyundai factory, and Tuberculosis cases rising in America.   Hosts:  Tim @Timcast (everywhere) Phil @PhilThatRemains (X) Ian @IanCrossland (everywhere) Serge @SergeDotCom (everywhere) Guest: Douglas Wilson 

Donald Trump is considering deploying the National Guard into Portland to end 80 days of terrorist anti-ice riots. Did you guys know that that there's been this ongoing unrest in Portland? Well, I mean, you may have, but you don't really care because the truth is it's not really that influential or impactful. And I realized something today. When we were talking about, you know, what's the news? The top story on Daily Mail earlier was that tuberculosis is on the rise. And that's bad. But it's like a local story out of Maine.

And I'm like, wow, is it the best they got? Why does it feel like the news is so slow? Something seems off. Now, I've been directly involved in on the ground news about 15 years. And then I realized this is the first time in my career, riot season is just not there. air. And we talked a little bit about it as we're getting ready and doing pre-production, like, well, there was the LA stuff. Yeah, and then Trump sent in the military. And now there's nothing. And we're into September with kids back in school at college. And every year that I

have been doing this, there has been a riot season until now. Why is that? Is it that sending in the National Guard and the Marines was extremely effective? Or as many who are sitting here pointed out, maybe that once USAID money was gone, the NGOs and organizations that were funding and organizing these riots and protests are gone, so no one's doing anything anymore. Thus, it's a slow news season. And there's other more interesting things going on than even what's happening in Portland. But with all that being said, Trump is still deploying National Guard potentially Chicago and Portland. I think it's working. I think it's working. So we'll talk about that. Then we do have some other big news.

Speaker Johnson said Trump's an FBI informant. Yeah, he said on the issue of Epstein. Trump was an FBI informant, which is interesting because maybe that was a slip-up he shouldn't have said. Maybe the issue Trump is concerned about, and I'm not saying it's definitive, but could it be that these documents will reveal Trump has been secretly working with the FBI for decades and snitching on powerful individuals? Could that be really, really bad for him and his business deals and the Trump? Trump organization? Maybe. We don't know for sure.

But we will talk about that. And, oh boy, there was one of the biggest ice raids ever on a Hyundai factory. Guys, 475 illegals arrested. Koreans, I knew it. These are illegal immigrant Koreans building cars in this country. I knew it. I've been saying this. Anyway, we'll talk about that.

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email, and it'll tell you all of your information that's been hacked and breached and sold. So I do recommend that you guys take this stuff seriously. but shout it to WebRoot. Go to webroot.com slash pool and shout up for sponsoring the show. Don't forget to also smash that like button. Share the show with everyone, you know. It's going to be a good night. We've got a great guest joining us, and there's a lot more to talk about than just the news. We're having a great debate this morning about the National Guard, but we're joined by Doug Wilson. Hey. Who are you? What do you do? I'm a pastor from North Idaho, and I was here to speak at NatCon, and we have a church plant in D.C. I'll be preaching there on Sunday, and in between, time, so we thought we'd come up here and visit you all.

We were having a really interesting discussion this morning about the National Guard deployment. We're having a debate with this liberal guy and the issue of Christian nationalism and theocracy came up. So I think a discussion of what this country should do, where we're going. I think it'll be interesting. So it's great to have you. Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. Ian is hanging out. I mean, man, this is so cool.

I've been thinking a lot about this too, because I've sort of been lately, like Americanism is kind of like the new religion. It's like after Christianity, we kept some of the virtues and we got rid of some of the sins, like pride. but it's very interesting how they're so connected, you know, Christianity and being an American. Great conversation. Good to see you, Doug. And I'm about to tweet it out. We also got Phil. Hello, everybody. My name is Phil Labonte. I'm the lead singer, the heavy metal band, All That Remains.

I'm an anti-communist and a counter-revolutionary. Let's get into it. Let's go for the news, my friends. We've got this from the post-millennial. Trump considers deploying National Guard to Portland after 80 days of terrorist anti-ice riots. Quote, these are paid terrorists if we go to Portland, we're going to wipe them out.

It's a bold statement, but there is something interesting in this. Even though they've been ongoing for 80 days, nobody really cares because they're not doing anything. I mean, there was that one video where the local resident that black woman was upset saying they're banging pots and pans. But a bunch of, you know, like a couple dozen leftists banging pots and pants is a local news issue. It's not widespread national protests.

I'm going to go ahead and say, I think Trump's sending an ICE, shutting down USAID, and deploying the National Guard into the L.A. riots has basically shut the left up. And I don't know, maybe it's the calm before the storm. But it feels like Antifa is gone. It's just, it's just gone. And so are the proud boys only, it's sort of the fear of the proud. The whole fear of like domestic terrorism's kind of gone. It's more about illegal immigration and the domestic terrorism that could come from something like that, like an Iranian, you know, sleeper cell or something like that. I'm not sure that does that qualify

as domestic if it's someone from a good brand that comes in or that had come in illegally a couple years back. I don't know. Are they funded by Iran and they're American citizens? I don't think that that counts as domestic. But to your point, I don't know that the everything going on with

the proud boys has anything to do with the administration. The proud boys are actually reactionaries. They're a reaction to all the stuff that was going on with Antifa. I mean, Antifa was really out of hand. It wasn't just the summer of love. That was kind of like the apex of it. But, you know, they had been going after Ben Shapiro and going after Milo in 2015, 2016. There were people showing up. That was when punch a Nazi was such a prevalent

phrase that you heard on the left. It was like, you know, go go out there and make these people stop talking and shut them up. And that was when the conversation about the freedom of speech, whether it was something that the United States is worth, you know, the United States should be protecting, you know, whether it was worth it or not, because the argument from the left was always, oh, there's all these vulnerable communities and all these poor people are getting harmed by, by people speaking and having these, sharing these bad thoughts. So I don't think that, I don't think that Antifa is, I'm sorry, I don't think that the proud boys have much to do with it. Because like I said, they were a reaction to, you know, six, seven years of Antifa. Tifa literally going out and causing massive problems all over the country. One of the things that's important to remember here and what I think is behind this is in Ecclesiastes, it says where justice is not speedily executed upon the criminal, there the heart of man is filled to do evil. In other words, deterrence works, strength works. If Trump says, I'm not going to put up with this nonsense and we're going to send to the National Guard in Washington, D.C., and the crime rate plummets. people notice, right? And Portland and Seattle, I'm, that's out in my neck of the woods. Portland's just a day's drive away. Seattle is just five hours away. The out west, the idea of close is

hilarious. Oh, it's close. It's only a day's drive. Yeah, it's just a day's drive. Go ahead. Sorry about that. Um, so the, the blue state, the blue city governors have been basically making their cities unlivable. Uh, downtown Seattle and particularly downtown Portland are just unlivable. And so, So, and it's not just Antifa, it's not just the activists. It's also the homeless and just the lack of any kind of societal discipline. And Trump is simply saying, we're not going to put up with it anymore. And surprise, deterrence works. If you don't have the funding from USAID and bad things are going to happen to you,

if you start throwing bricks through windows, then look. I'm curious about, you mentioned USAID. what is, you know, what is your opinion about how much USAID had, had been influencing the protests and all of the things that were going on? Because to be honest with you, and the reason I say this is like before Trump, right, before 2016, 2015, 2016, I knew there were people that would protest. I mean, obviously there was the Michael Brown protest in Ferguson and all the, all the riots and that. but I don't think that there was as much pushback on just the right more so broadly right like you didn't see people going after speakers on college campuses you didn't see people going after you know after after anyone that was considered conservative do you think that the USAID money and and influence do you think that that was a major factor in what was going on then or do you think that that was that it's just a coincidence that after U.S. AID has been kind of shut down that the... No, I think it's a major player.

I think it has been a major player funding all kinds of different activism. So sometimes when things were calmer, they would fund AstroTurf protests and that sort of thing, but not violent. But then the violent protests, when something happens and all of a sudden pallets of bricks are dropped off, I mean, somebody's funding that. there's there's a follow it's a follow the money thing always follow the money and so I think that it was a major player and you cut the supply line and one of the principles of war is you cut the supply lines and I think what that's what Trump has done is he's cut the supply line well with uh I agree with you about harsh cracking down on crime right away otherwise it gets out of hand and I thought the summer of love they called it those riots that just kind of got out of control and then

And three days later, no National Guard presence, I'm like, first day I was working with Tim and I was like, where's the National Guard, bro? What the fuck's going on? And it took a while. And we saw the response to that. But the problem here that I'm having internally is that this doesn't seem like an acute problem. This isn't a riot that needs to be put down. It's not like an acute issue that needs to be stomped down by the National Guard. It's like chronic crime. It's like a forever problem. What are you referring to? What's temporary sending the National Guard to cities other than D.C. D. They have jurisdiction. But like it's. He's talking about the attacks on ice, the ice agents who are arresting illegals being attacked. So I don't think he's trying to fix crime generally. He may have been in with D.C. I was saying the intention for sending Marines or National Guard, is it Marines and National Guard? Is that what's being sent? Yeah, so the Marines that were deployed in L.A., they were only allowed to protect federal buildings. They can't enforce domestic law.

So the strategy that Trump has largely employed was by having them there, criminals are scared because if you engage military, they can respond. They can defend themselves. So the idea is basically like, hey, don't mess around while these guys are here. Did they give an end date for taking the feds out? Or is it just like until violence decreases? I think it's interesting because I think recently there was a stay on the restrictions. Trump is allowed to keep operating in the National Guard in California. I think it worked. I think we're dealing with an unprecedented, I shouldn't say unprecedented, but a generational calm, at least in my adult life. I mean, in my teen years, you had, obviously, you had the riots and the protests around George W. Bush. With Obama, you got Occupy. Even Obama's second term, you still had protests and riots. The BLM emerged during Obama's presidency. And then in 2014, escalating into, of course, the Ferguson riots. Then we got Freddie Gray, Baltimore.

It never stopped. Right. Until this year. 2014 seems to be... It's got to be USAID. USAID money came into domestic issues was 2014. I'm sure it was like during Vietnam and stuff, they were doing that with whatever organization they were using at the time. When I was a teenager, it was the 68 Detroit riots.

So it was... Real quick, let me ask you. How old are you? 72. So you're, you've, you've seen a lot in the political space. Right. When I'm a teenager in the 2000s, we had all of the anti-war protests. So the moment I'm, you know, I'm growing up and I'm starting to see the political stuff.

I remember 2000 with the George Bush-Al Gore stuff, but I didn't really pay attention to it. I was watching Simpsons reruns on Fox, you know, at 10 o'clock or whatever. And then they'd mention, we're going to tonight on 11 o'clock news. And I'm like, I don't know. Then I'm like 17, 18 and people are marching in the streets. From this point, there's always been a protest in riot season and activism. Was it like this before the 2000s? Were there periods where nobody was riding?

There was no protests. Yes, there were periods. There were riot seasons, like in 68, there'd be periodic outbursts. Generally, back then, it was racial. It was like every summer there was some kind of... No, not every summer. So there'd be periods of calm, and then there'd be periods of calm, and then there'd be pent up energy

and there'd be... But you mean like years of calm? It'd be years of calm. Yeah. So I guess my point is in my whole life, we haven't had that until now. Right.

Which is why I'm like, something feels weird. I went to the Daily Mail today. I was reading the news and their top story said, Outbreak of the World's Deadliest Disease and I was like, the picture they used

was just a picture of a bay. And I was like, okay, this must be the slowest news day in a long time. And it was a report about an increase in tuberculosis, which is kind of serious, but really? And that's like a kind of a local story in Maine. Right.

Even Trump talking about the National Guard in Portland over ICE, this is a really small local protest. And so I was, you know, I was talking to boys about us talking to my wife about it. I'm like, this is like the first summer of my life where there's not been mass riots. That's crazy. What's going on? It's got to be USAID. Yeah.

I think so. Ian, you mentioned like 2014 or whatever. that does coincide with the end of the or with the smith modernization act which we've talked about you know the act that allowed it the modernization act allowed uh state department to disseminate basically propaganda for the american people and that was in the i believe it was the 2013 NDAA national defense authorization act so i don't know if the the USAID money was being i don't have evidence that it was, but it is a coincidence that at the same, you know, right around the same time that the Smithamont Modernization Act was signed into law, and then you saw

this uptick of all this, you know, essentially, you know, tumult in the United States from the left. Also keep in mind that the liberal progressive mind doesn't, didn't flip a switch where it's violent all of a sudden. They have to work themselves up to it. They have to So Thomas Sol has the subtitle of one of his books is Vision of the Anointed, and the subtitle is self-congratulation as the basis for social policy. Liberals, progressives, like to think of themselves as the civilized people in the room, the moral people in the room, the intelligent people in the room. And USAID presented itself as foreign aid, you know, aid for programs overseas.

we're going to help the children, we're going to help the children, we're going to build democracy, we're going to do all these things full of sweetness and light. And it became violent by degrees. It's not something you just, you don't go out to save the world, join the peace corps, and then overnight you turn into a monster. That has to happen slowly. It has to be a process of corruption and like intellectual self-deception. And I believe that we got to this period of long chain of riots where they talked themselves into believing they really were saving democracy. And it was that famous, the equivalent of that general statement in the Vietnam War, we had to destroy the village in order to save it. The liberal

state, they've gotten to the point where they believe they have to destroy democracy in order to save it. I prefer the more contemporary we did it, Patrick, for those are not familiar, it is this. We did it Patrick. We saved the city. And it is Spongebob and Patrick in a city that's on fire and everything's being destroyed. No one's fighting anymore. Exactly. We did it, Patrick.

And they heard that before about the Vietnam ethos. They were like, was that like a government thing they had to say? Or was that just a... No, it was a famous quote from a general. They had obliterated a village. And he said, well, we had to destroy the village in order to save it. And every, okay,

everybody sees on that. And I think that the progressives have gotten to the point where they sincerely believe that if they fight to overturn what the people all voted for and, you know, they voted Trump in. He's doing exactly what he said he was going to do. Well, that's obviously anti-democratic because they define democracy as getting their way. Yeah, yeah. I had a friend, a very close friend who didn't like Trump, 2018, 2019. It might even be around 2019. And he said, it's okay to use evil to defeat evil.

And I was like, doesn't that make you evil? Isn't that the point is like you don't use evil? You don't let yourself become that? Yep. And it was just so shocking. He was like one of my best friends for 40 years at that point. And it was so shocking to hear that come out of his mouth. I don't know if I should just be in a really good mood.

Because I was saying this like a month ago or so ago. When I was younger, my attitude was very much. People care too much about sports. They would rather watch the baseball games. game than care about the war and what's going on in this world. And, you know, I'm protesting. I'm angry. And I'm like, you mean to tell me that Barack Obama's blown up kids and you'd rather

watch a football game? And then I realized when everyone started caring more about politics then sports, there's a lot of stupid people who wield power in very dangerous ways. And I'm like, careful what you wish for. Yeah, people need to get back to caring about sports. A lot of people. Then only a ball is involved. And they treat politics like sports.

A lot of people do. A lot of people. They've called the left and the right, like the team. like they're two teams playing for the win. And it's like now we're sitting here on top of the hill that we feel like we've won and it's like what is winning? It doesn't make it. It means I'm not worried about going outside

and having someone molot off my car. It's less stressful, but there's still serious problems. It's still. It's significantly less at least in the United States. And I now grant that if you're going to go ahead and expand the context to the whole world, there's always bad stuff going on somewhere in the world that you can point to and say, oh, things aren't perfect. But in the United

States, like the fact that there are not you know, riots in every city that we haven't had massive riots. That stuff, even if it doesn't affect us as individuals, it affects a lot of individuals. Like if you're, you know, if you own a business and someone throws a Molotov cocktail through your window or even just a rock through your window. Like, that's a huge hassle. It sucks, you know, and that's, that affects a lot of people. You don't want that stuff in your society at all. I've been, you know, there's a lot of people kind of freaking out because views are way down across the board, across a bunch of podcasts. Revenue is on the decline. It's summer. Ad rates are down. It's kind of normal.

But it is an unusually low interest right now. There's very little news to talk about Congress. Even when Congress is in session, there's not a lot going on. Like even the Epstein stuff is like, we get it. You know what I mean? Like they come back from recess and then here we are, discharge petition and all that stuff. And I've actually been a fairly optimistic. We're working on a bunch of projects. We're working on other news projects talking about mini-documentaries. I launched a new channel at Tim Poole, where it's kind of just an opportunity to do other content outside of this kind of this culture war that we've been entrenched in. And the culture war debate show we're doing is more evergreen political debates.

We're actually talking with some networks about doing full seasons and getting funding. And I'm like, man, it's actually a great opportunity for business development. It's new and exciting. And I don't have to worry about far left is smashing things. And, you know, it kind of seems like we at least have. 90% of the battlefield at this point and the left has just totally been washed out. I mean, Cracker

Barrel, Bud Light, Target, even Hooters is trying to rebrand to be family friendly now. Did you guys see that story? Yeah, they're changing. They're getting to go ahead. No, yeah, Hooters announced that they're going to do a rebrand to try and be more of a family friendly friendly location. I'm like, change your name. Yes. Or make a full owl.

Like, forget about the boobs. Yeah. With the big old eyes. Yeah. man uh you know there's a there's a story we have pulled up that we'll get to in a little bit uh about how gen z men don't believe in gender equality whatever that means they believe more in gender roles young men are skewing more religious they're more likely be conservative this shift i think is resulting like we you know i'll put it this way my prediction was first because of the low birth rates of the 2000s in the financial crisis that uh we were going to one we're going have a population, cultural crisis. I believe that's going to happen. But another component of that

that I've been talking about for years is that it was largely liberals who weren't having kids and religious conservatives were. That means do the math. If liberals don't have kids and conservatives do, give it 20 years and you've got a generation that is more likely to be conservative and religious. And I think that's what we're seeing. And I think one of the reasons, not just the deployment of troops, but one of the reasons why riot season may be simmering down and why it's probably going to go away, there aren't enough children of leftist ideology anymore. You know, people tell me, yeah, but the universities are indoctrinating conservatives' children. Yes, but that is fleeting.

Parents will always have more influence than universities. Some kids from conservative families will go leftist, but it's not a guarantee. Now, if you're born to a purple-haired pair of moms, or I should say if you're born, you know, surrogacy or whatever to two dads or whatever, you're likely going to, you're more likely to hold that ideology to be leftist. But on the college thing, keep in mind that colleges across the country are about to go off a demographic cliff. Because a number of them are going to go under. So the model of everybody and his dog go to college is not sustainable to use a term from the left. And so you're not going to have as many kids to indoctrinate anymore.

What you're saying is very true, in my experience, the liberals have 1.7 children. so they can have something to put into daycare. And in the church that I pastor, it's four, five, six, seven kids are normal. It's for, you know, you're, you describe yourself, do you describe yourself as Christian nationalist? Yes, I do. Yeah.

It's way better for you than you realize. When you look at the fertility rates among younger millennials and Gen Z, which is the principal fertility years for young women, it is estimated between 0.3 and 0.8 among, in general, now this is of course because liberals have none and conservatives have one it's worth pointing out to political affiliation is actually pretty heritable like if you have if you're if you're a conservative you're likely to have kids that are conservative they might rebel when they're young but by the time they reach adulthood they're probably going to be but but real quick to your point when you're

saying you're seeing like four and five kids yeah the parents are probably what in their like early 30s the 20s actually some of them oh my god 20s and 30s. So I'm, I've got three kids. I have 18 grandkids. Congratulations. Thank you. I've got four great-grandchildren. Wow. And one more great-grandchild on the way. So my wife and I are just a humble couple, and we have multiple descendants. And my kids, one, one kid has five, another kid has five, the other has eight. So you're, how old is your oldest great-grandchild? My oldest great-grandchild is two. Okay, super ding. We were having a conversation about this. There's a viral social media post where someone said, it was, someone posted, my grandfather gifted me his PlayStation 1. What do you think about these games? Do you have any recommendations? And then someone responded with, your grandfather, is this a rage bait? And this, because like you're intentionally trying to antagonize the millennials or whatever. And the person responded with, my father was 28 when he got the PlayStation 1 when it came out. He had his first, my dad was born, my dad was eight years old when my grandfather got this. He had my dad

at 20. My dad had me at 20. I'm now 18 and my grandfather is 40 years older than me. Which was like totally normal until 80 years ago or something. So if you go back 100, 200 years, it was not uncommon for a grandparent to live with their great, great grandchild. Right. Because if you're going on an average of like 20 or so years. You start early. Yeah. Yeah. You're 20 of your first kid. You're 40 your first grandkids. 60 your first great grand kid. By the time you're 80, your great-great-grandchild is there. I was thinking about life extension and how it might be possible for people to live till their 200.

And then all of a sudden, you're going to be the same biological age as your great, great, great, great-grandchild. And you're both going to look at each other like you're both 30-year-olds with healthy genetics. That's that movie with Justin Timberlake and Olivia Wilde. I didn't see that. Everybody stops aging at 30 or something.

There's the time where they have time number. Yeah. One of the worst movies I've ever seen, by the way. But the idea was that once you Once you invent genetic immortality, they had to create a way to facilitate dying. And so time is money and it's on your arm. And the movie's really bad. But it's an interesting idea. So jumping back to the point you made about the Gen Z becoming more religious, more conservative.

One of the things I like to say observe is that in the long run, stupidity never works. And human beings have a need. for the transcendent. You can't treat human society like we're all rats in a maze, and there is nothing above the maze. It says in Ecclesiastes, again, God has put eternity in our hearts. We want to matter. We want to mean something. And you can't have your meaning assigned to you by Congress or by the media. That's not sufficient. That's going to collapse under any weight you try to put on it. And that means there's a religious hunger that people have,

and you can stifle it for a time, but we're in the middle of a massive recoil. People are saying, I need something more than this. I hate to bring it up now for the third night in a row, but I commented on a new song by the singer Haley Williams. She was the paramour singer. She put out an album, solo album. And in the song she put out, there's a line saying,

I'm going on, I'll paraphrase. She's like, I'm going on 37, and I have no idea. what the ever-living f i'm doing here does anyone know if this is normal and it's fascinating to he it's like a someone is similar age to me mid you know i'm 39 she's going on 37 and i'm my response is it's not normal no throughout human history for thousands of years everybody had a purpose they had a mandate they knew what they were doing you did not have such widespread nihilism and listlessness homelessness. Someone today I saw a video, they were like, your purpose actually is the way you make other people feel when you do what you love. That was kind of nice. I feel like for the secular atheists, your purpose is to create, to organize, to work towards order. But the thing that I would add to that, all this is good, but you have to have someone that's outside the human condition who approves of it. You. You can't just say, we're bits of protoplasm, we're just flotsam and jetsam on the ocean of being.

Yeah, I mean. That's a good way to put it. Right. Flotsam and jetsam on the ocean of being. Yeah, I mean, essentially the argument that you're talking about is, you know, without some kind of foundation, then life has no meaning, right? Right. Without God or without a spiritual anchor, then there is no meaning to life. And people can say, well, I have this meaning and I have that meaning.

but if your meaning is all subjective and there's no rock that it's based on or no serious foundation, then your subjective meaning doesn't mean anything to me. We do, I really want to get to this next story about the absence thing, but I'll make one more quick point on,

I say it all the time, I'm not a Christian, but my view of divine mandate is as simple as I can put it, which doesn't really get to the context. No one says, create order, build, grow, or quite simply be fruitful and multiply. But there's

more than just be fruitful and multiply. There is be good stewards of the earth, protect others, and stop evil. And evil overly simplified is efforts towards destruction and chaos. And when you look at the leftist and liberal worldview,

over at least my lifetime, they are agents of chaos. Yeah. They're the Joker. Push back against entropy. They are the agents of entropy. They seek to dismantle, destroy, disrupt. It says in Proverbs chapter 8, Lady Wisdom is talking in Proverbs 8. And she says, all who hate me love death. And basically the whole progressive element is a death wish. They want things to die. They want economies to die. They want babies in the womb to die. They

want marriage to die. They want men and women and their identity as men and women. They want all that to die. They want it all to wither and turn brown. And let me let me, Let me add this. I know that there's going to be liberals who say, that's ridiculous. I don't want anyone to die. I would never think that. Let's just step outside of the personal feelings on the matter and take a look at the consequences of action. The consequences of the modern progressive worldview is death destruction and chaos. Just listen, this PBD, Patrick Bet David, surrounded by 20 anti-capitalists, was so great. Because you see them espousing an ideology where if you literally just follow the logical steps of what they're proposing, it is death. destruction and chaos. When they say communism, a cashless, classless society, what they're saying is, you will live the way I demand it or else. And the ethos they espouse is this surface layer that when you actually ask them the questions of what does it mean and how do you achieve this, they end up basically saying, I guess we have to have the killing fields again. We know the results of that ideology and where it leads to. It is chaos, destruction, and disorder. Communism killed

a hundred million people you know i i i choose order over chaos but the problem with just order is like i agree that people need a higher some something other than beyond and but then like where do they get that from do they get it from the media does is it the media that tells them and then i start thinking like what is the media is books and television it's whatever the the information is delivered on i'm a preacher so i'm going to say the bible god god did not leave us in the dark i i the bible also is a piece of media. This is what's been going on with my mind. And it's like, they tell me this is, like, I get morals and things from movies and television. I can learn from stories. But if a piece of media tells me this is true, I need to do research. What do you, what do you classify? How are you

classifying the Bible as media? It's just a book. Book is like one of the oldest forms. But he's not wrong. Well, but the reason I say that is because like, would stories that are handed down be considered media? And the reason I ask that is because obviously the, at least the first, well, most of the Bible, not all, not the New Testament so much, but the first part of the Bible, the first half of the Bible, the Old Testament, not half, the Old Testament, was actually stories that were handed down verbally before people were writing. And they were really, like, whether or not you believe in God and you believe in the literal nature of the stories in the Bible, they really do lay out a way to live your life that will

produce mostly good results for the most people if you live your life that way. Yeah. I think the stories, like the morals from the Bible are key. And a lot of, even in movies sometimes, you'll get it, you'll see a movie and you'll be like, I'm going to change my life. People won't do it. If I get up in my own name and say, hey, my good advice, I'm older guy. Why don't you live in a decent way? That's not authoritative enough. True, true, true. So I'm just an old geyser. I'm a boomer, and I'm telling you to shape up. who needs that who needs that what there's a difference between a preacher get like a modernist liberal preacher getting up in the pulpit and saying it seems to me or on the other hand or at the end of the day

and a conservative preacher who says stands up and says thus saith the lord the lord god almighty who made heaven and earth this is how he wants you to live and then smart kid is going to say how do you how do we know that and i'd say well i believe the bible is inspired by god because god who made heaven and earth did not leave us abandoned in this awful world. This world is a place that can go to destruction, chaos, and all the rest of it. I actually believe it's objective that when you study enough about the nature of existence, the things that humans universally agree upon and find to be good, what I've stated, and I got, you know, it's funny, is the most pushback I get on the statement

is actually coming from Christians, because I suppose it is trying to, like, create a, apply like a Christian moral worldview to secularism, whatever. But my argument is when you take a look at the history of the world and the religions of the world and the civilizations of the world, pretty sure all the people here would agree we have the best one, be it wealth, access, the expansion of rights, and it was all built on a Christian moral tradition. Well, all I can say for now is I certainly don't think we found the end all be able of truth in the universe. Christians, you know, maybe you found it. component of it. My argument is, as far as I can see right now, based on what we know, there are many religions that are destructive, chaotic, and evil and hate each other and commit acts of violence or promote behaviors that are destructive to life, like cousin marriage, for instance, which science has shown us already is really, really bad. Then you take a look at the Christian moral tradition, the nation's born upon it, and they're too nice. They've been very forgiving and welcoming and open. There's a sort of like subservience built into it, I think,

that needs to be shattered for the Christian to awaken. Like, your lord, that term, because your king was your lord. And I feel like the Roman wanted you to call him Lord, and they would be like, bow down, say my words, call me Lord, and it's the guy standing up there reading the text. And like, you want people to be like Jesus. You want them to stand up and be leaders for their community and heal people. What I would say, you know, to the point I was making previously, is that there are religions today that say, believe or die, claim it's true or.

else. And that's not what we have in Christianity. In fact, Christians are too forgiving to the evil. And my criticism of the Christians in the United States is that this was a Christian dominated nation in the 50s. I mean, it's 98% or whatever. And that's been declining because Christians don't beat people and force them and scream at them, even at the height of the power in the United States. The besetting sin of evangelical Christians is that they're so sweet the diabetics can't be friends with them. Why is that? From your experience, why do you think?

It is fascinating how the left paints Christians in this country as like an evil, fascistic, authoritarian, you know, the handmaids tale. And I'm like, real quick, if that were true, they never would have given up the power they had in the majority. And they would have entrenched those laws. They would have entrenched their faith and religion in the Constitution and the government. They did not do that. Yeah.

The reason to answer your question, What happens is when you are young, lean, and hungry, you're tough, and you make your money, and you, you know, in the business sense. And then you get complacent. You know, things are nice. And it's the difficult times, hard men, hard men create good times, good times create soft men. And in Deuteron, it says Jesuin waxed fat and kicked. So what happens is the evangelical Christianity was a victim of its own success.

It helped create a very stable society, one of the most productive societies, and they got complacent and lazy. And I think you're exactly right, didn't defend what they ought to have defended. Let's jump to this story. We'll move on from here. There's a great conversation, by the way, but I enjoy it. We've got this story from the Daily Mail, President Trump and FBI informants. Speaker Mike Johnson may have just spilt the beans as to why Trump is so concerned about this Epstein story. Super quiet. Hold on. He has never said it to is the hopes that the Democrats are using to try to attack him. He has never said or suggested or implied.

I've talked to him about this many times, many times. He is horrifying. It's been misrepresented. He's not saying that what Epstein did is a hoax. It's a terrible, unspeakable evil. He believes that himself. When he first heard the rumor, he kicked him out of Marilago. He was an FBI informant to try to take this stuff down.

the president knows and has great sympathy for the women who have suffered these unspeakable harms it's detestable to him he and i've spoken about this now there's a couple theories on this one is that mike johnson let's slip this statement to try and protect trump's reputation there's also that you know basically like oh did you know he was an fbi informant stopping it that's why or i think there's a strong possibility here i don't know for sure i'm not saying i trust trump on any of this stuff elon says in the files whatever let's let's get the files and figure it out but let's at least entertain. Did Speaker Mike Johnson maybe accidentally just slip up that Trump was an FBI informant?

And the reason why Trump doesn't want the documents released is that they're going to show that Trump was snitching on powerful people. That's prominent, wealthy individuals doing untoward things. And the documents are going to show that Donald Trump was a snitch. Here's the argument that I don't know, obviously. But the argument against that would be if there was material in the Epstein files that would be would be damaging to Donald Trump and his business relationships,

it would have been out by now. I disagree. The Democrats would have gotten them with it. If it was implacative of Trump, if the documents show that Trump was doing bad things to children and underage girls, they'd have released it. But if the documents show that Trump

was working with law enforcement to stop this, that's not damaging to Trump's reputation among his voters. It's damaging to Trump's reputation among powerful elites he needs to deals with. So the Democrats might be thinking, it's not, it's going to help Trump. If we leak files showing that Trump stopped Epstein, people are going to cheer for him.

Trump may be saying, if they find out that I ran it on Bill Gates and Bill Clinton and I was the one actually spying on him or wore a wire or did who knows what, these people aren't going to want to do deals with his business. If Trump was snitching on prominent world leaders, I'm not saying he did. I'm not saying I believe that's the case, but it could be an explanation. Trump was a snitch. He, like, I'm going to put it this way. I'm going to paint Trump in the worst possible light in this regard. Trump only cared about himself. He only cared about his organization.

When he heard about what Epstein was doing, he said, this is exposure, I don't need. And when the FBI came to him about Epstein, he says, I'll do whatever you want. I'll help you out. And they say, wear a wire, give us a list of names. What if Trump gave like, gave ledgers from his club to the FBI? What's going to happen to Mar-a-Lago when all of the people who spend their 24 20 grand, I think it's like 200 grand a sign up or something, maybe I'm wrong, but it's like 20 grand a year or something. What's going to happen when a bunch of these people find out that their names

and private information were handed over the feds as part of a criminal investigation in Epstein or to illicit activities? What if Trump was informing more than just Epstein? What if Trump was feeding the FBI information on tons of cases about prominent powerful elites? That would be extremely bad for Trump's business and his dealings with powerful elites so much so that he'd be like, we can't release this stuff. It would destroy my family's business, my legacy. If people find out that I was basically a spy for the federal government against powerful elites, the populace, his voter base might be like, wow, Trump was actually trying to stop bad people. That's not what the powerful people are going to think, though. They're going to think, destroy this guy. I want revenge.

Yeah. I mean, look, I don't know how true this is. I'm interested in finding out more. But I will say this is actually more, it's more believable that he was an FBI informant than that he was a KGB informant. Like it was asserted by what's his name. Jonathan Shate. Yeah, Jonathan Shate. So I think that, and also it would be a good thing because it would prove that he's more patriotic than Jonathan Chait with him as well. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know that he is, obviously. And I want to see more information.

You know, there was a tweet going around that was, I forget. the guy's name, but he was, now that this has come out, there's more information kind of trickling out. People are saying, yes, Donald Trump was an FBI informant. Has Johnson asked about the comment? Has there been a follow-up? Hey, what do you mean by that? I think this actually just came out

a couple hours ago. His eyes. Right after he says the word informant, look at his eyes. He like, his eyes get real wide, and he blinks. And then a couple seconds later, he looks at the camera. Yeah, I just do that. Let me play this video for you guys. Listen to this. You actually try to press up on Trump, but you can never get to him. Yeah. Because he had ex-FBI agents all around him?

All the time. And I tried a couple of times to press him and make arrangements where I could work with him and earn with him. I did that with other big contractors. I had the power of the unions. I could do all kinds of little things. But I couldn't get to him. He wouldn't bite. He just wouldn't bite.

He didn't want to do anything like that. And there was layers of people in the middle. One of my guys said, we'll go up the office. I said, we'll go up the office. Everybody around him is an ex-FBI agent. We'll go up the office, we'll get cuffed, and we'll go right to prison. Wow. So forget about Trump.

He's a legitimate guy. He don't want to do it. Forget about Trump. And for context, that's Sammy the Bull Gravano. So he's a fairly well-known organized crime guy. What if a component of Trump's acrimony is, is, anger is that he spent a lot of time thinking that he was cooperating with the feds that he was in their good graces and then when they betrayed him and went after him he took it very personal you know

well firstly so much weird stuff i when when he visited or someone visited gilane maxill was basically the ringleader of the whole epstein you call it the the maxwell files is what it should be called it's it's her running this thing she had jeff put her in a minimum security prison and then a month later she says trump never did anything toward i'm like all right that smells so i'm like maybe Trump was hooking up with underage girls and that's why it's why all of a sudden he's like, it's a hoax. But I think your conspiracy crazy

theory might be more realistic that he because he's such an ordered candidate. He's such like a law and order guy that he would have worked with the feds, like happy to. He might have went to them. Because if he was doing doing dirty work with underage girls, the Democrats had access to that for years and they could destroy

him. And they didn't. And so now it's the, why is Trump freaking out over this? The Democrats didn't release it. And you know they would have. They falsely accused him of rape in New York, civil fraud. They tried arresting him. They'd literally arrested him, and tried convicting him several times. They'd have taken any opportunity. I actually, I'm not saying I know for sure. I don't know if it's my theory. I'm just saying, if this is true, there probably is a higher probability that trumps a snitch. And I'm saying that intentionally makes me love him more

if he, if he complied and worked with the FBI on getting Epstein thrown away. That's a good thing. But not just Epstein. Prominent, powerful elite. It's like, you know, he's, look, when he's saying Trump was surrounded by ex-FBI guys, how does Trump know the ex-FBI guys? And he was so famous in the 80s. Who in his circle is like, I can get you connected with guys who were in the FBI? A lot would ride on the powerful elites. What were they doing?

And was it really bad? You know, if it was Epstein-level bad deeds, then that's not going to hurt him. How cool would it be if Trump wasn't informant for the FBI for a long time? Like, actually saying, listen, you know, I'm going to do my family. business anywhere I can help you. I'll give you information. So with all his foreign business dealings, the feds were like, we want information. These guys are like, I'll help you out. I love this country. And then in his dealings, he discovered Hillary Clinton was a crook. She was doing untoward things with the Clinton Foundation. And he thought, I better run for office and put a stop to

this. Yeah. What if Trump's whole thing was he stumbled? I'm just like, what a great movie it would be if like Trump was just a business guy who was an informant and he accidentally walks into the wrong room at the wrong time and sees them all shredding documents, and then this triggers the movement. I have to, I have to save this country. And then he rides down the escalate. That's right. The feds came with. They were like, there's only a few good ones of us left, Donald. We need you. Like the ones he'd been working with in the 90s and the 2000s, they're like, we've been taken over. We need you to run for office. You have to save this country. There is another conspiracy that's been around for a while, and that is Trump is deep state.

And, you know, it was funny. We talked about this over the election. There's a conspiracy theory that I love this one. It's my favorite. In the late 2010, or I'm sorry, in the late 2000s, you saw the rise of Alex Jones, who's getting bigger and bigger and more prominent, more popular, and he got very, very big in the 2010s. And the Ron Paul Love Revolution, Libertarianism, anti-establishment, anti-war, was getting very popular online, which also bubbled up into the Tea Party and Occupy movements. So the conspiracy theory goes that the CIA, very, very smart guys who have plans in place for decades, said, how do we see? stop this, okay? We're trying to do the stodgy uniparty candidates, the old white guy versus

old white guy, but people aren't buying it anymore. The 2000 thing was crazy. You get Obama. They say, the deep state goes, we're going to do Obama. We're going to do the first black president still got protests after Obama won. People were still obsessed. Occupy, upset. Occupy Wall Street was during Obama's first term, 2011. And so CIA says, something's not working. There's a populist uprising happening. What do we do? Here's the idea. We need a popular candidate who can play the villain of the establishment, but who's actually in it the whole time. So the conspiracy theory goes that Donald Trump is friends with Hillary Clinton. He's friends of the deep state. And they set him up to make it look like they were attacking him so that the conspiracy theorist anti-war faction

would side with Donald Trump like Alex Jones had done. Then when he wins, the the populist movement gets back behind the person you chose in the first place. You know, the controlled opposition essentially, maybe except I feel like he really, like Hillary wasn't at the level of the people that Trump was, if Trump was working with FBI, I feel like there are people in the middle that didn't know and they just got, you know, rolled. Entertain this. Brian Krasenstein says, Mike Johnson just claimed Trump was an FBI informant to help take down Epstein.

If this is the case, then Trump would be a hero after it's all released. in the Epstein files, release the files. Interesting. When the liberals are saying Trump would be a hero if that were true. Interesting. I don't think Trump is deep state. I think the simple solution tends to be the correct one. I think Donald Trump was an outside of the uniparty candidate. They didn't think he was going to win, but he's a celebrity who knows how to sell. They stumbled into it. He ended up winning. Hillary thought he was going to win, but Trump squeaked by with three states getting about 80,000 votes in those states, put him over the edge. got angry, lost their minds, and started having a temper tantrum as they do, accusing him

being a spy. It bubbled up and escalated the point where they literally arrested him and tried putting him in jail and stopping him, but then ultimately lost, and here we are, and Trump's largely won. Yeah. Simple solution. The Trump had worked with the FBI over Epstein. They said this, like a couple, a few months ago, had been made pretty clear that he'd already in the past been in contact with the FBI or Epstein. Now, the word inform it, it's almost semantic. Like, he probably feels bad about saying that word because of the weight of the word. But also, you inform, you inform,

on one guy, the FBI's, like, once you're an FBI informant, you're kind of an FBI informant for life, I think, from what I've heard. He could be lying. That's true. That's a real simple. He mispoke. He meant to say that everybody knows that Trump had basically not been an informant, but had given a statement to the FBI.

Dude, if Trump informed on Epstein and a bunch of other billionaires, like, good. Not necessarily for his businesses, but good. Like, that's a good. I don't, I don't, But then maybe, the FBI, if it's strong arms and you never, sorry. Well, the question I have is the way that the Trump admin is handling the Epstein thing is weird because he could just lie. You know, when he's sitting at the table and it's like, why does everyone care about this? It's a Democrat hoax.

He could literally just keep saying the things we're finding, we're going to keep digging. And when it's ready, we'll get it to you. I'm sorry, it's taking so long, but we don't want the bad guys to get away. So we need to build a sound case. And then everyone forgets about it, right? I've been saying this since the beginning of Dan Bongino came out and said you know we're looking at all of these Epstein files

and it's dark stuff guys I am not going to release it before we're ready because the bad guys will get away if we do so it's going to take time everyone will forget about it so I'm wondering what the heck is going on behind the scenes because Trump could just lie

and it would go away but he's not so maybe they're just incompetent I don't know and like I think most of those files are burned anyway I mean, I keep hearing this from people, like Mike Sernovich talks about it. Mike Sernovich talks about it. For sure. Like day one, you torch the files and then you smash the servers, of course.

If you're going to cover up a crime like that, I would think. But, you know. Mike Sernovich said these documents have been gone for years. There's no way they held down to any of the incriminating evidence. But that there's still not, that Trump's still like, it's just a hoax, forget about it. Even if the files are gone, like, it's just a very weird, very weird. left hand doesn't seem to know what the right hand is doing kind of energy right now or like a scrambling kind of energy it's highly likely that they've been destroyed for years but then you can't

account for why the trump underlings were overpromising the pan bondie saying they're on my desk and you know that that would be weird yeah like were they were they enticed into saying that by someone and then they said it and then realized yeah or you were just elected and everybody's giddy and it went to your head and you like the adrenaline rush that comes from enticing the press. What did you guys think about how those women, 100 Epstein Survivor, women said they were going to drop all the names? Why haven't they? I don't know. Well, that's what I think.

If they have access to name, if they have names to name, name the names. Like, I think that it's BS and I think it's BS specifically because this, they're not, this isn't new. they've had this information for allegedly 20 years or more or whatever if they have this information why are they sitting on it why did it go away yesterday release the information

if you have a list compile the list and put it make it public I wonder if they're waiting for Massey's proposal he has a in Congress to get the files released I think he's waiting on three more signatures in order to get it passed there's no guarantee that he'll ever get those signatures you know and I will stress information let put it out I will

stress this too like I do support Massey and Kana's effort so far. But I got to be honest, the oversight committee and the DOJ have already committed to releasing the files and said they will. I don't trust them. So that's why I do think what Massey and Rokana do lean towards the good. But at the same time, shouldn't you be like, all right, we're going to give them a month to put out the files. And if they're not going to do it, then we're going to file. To be like, they said they're going to do it. They've been putting out files. But we're going to do this anyway. I'm kind of like, they just put up 33,000 files of which I think three to five percent were never before seen. So the files, or at least some of them

are getting released, wouldn't the reasonable thing be, we're going to, we're going to give them the opportunity to release as they said they are. We're going to trust that they're going to do it, benefit of the doubt. And then if they don't adhere to a time frame, we'll go for a discharge petition. My point is just, it seems kind of weird to straight go for a discharge petition when they claim they're already working on and literally just released files. It seems disingenuous. I mean, again, I don't trust they're going to release everything, but the argument is then you've got to, you got to let it play out. I mean, again, the Epstein story is not going anywhere. Right. You know, it makes it feel like a stunt. Interesting. Yeah. Maybe it's a response

to them, the binder released that ended up being a nothing and it's like, all right, that's day one. Now day two is another nothing burger. Now 33,000 files go up and there's like nothing there except for some new stuff that's nothing. Give us the real deal kind of energy. You know, for sure. That's why I'm saying I do, I lean towards more agreeing with them doing it. But I do think it's fair to question that it's, you're going to have to redact stuff. Even in the, in the Massey bill, they expect things to be redacted and withheld.

So what is, what is, do we have reason to believe the Oversight Committee is literally not doing it? I mean, they put out 33,000 files. We got a decent amount of new documents. people aren't getting what they want. So again, I'll stress, I'm begrudgingly saying, well, you know what, they should do it because we just get him released anyway, but isn't there a component where it's just like, why don't you wait? I bet Massey is doing what he thinks his constituents want.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Of course. That's what this is all about. He thinks the people want it, so he's doing. He's a vessel. Yeah, that's probably right. Let's jump to this next story. Ladies and gentlemen, the largest ICE arrest raid in history, 475 workers.

and these individuals were from Korea. Working in a Hyundai plant, Hyundai and Kia. I never trusted these Koreans. You know what I mean? Very good at math. You know what I mean? Architecturally genes. Oh, yeah.

I can attest to their math skills. Their ability to build trebushes second to none. Is that true? And it was funny to hear that there's a lot of, I'm Korean, by the way, that's the joke. I think everybody knows that. I don't know. But it is funny to hear that actually there was 475 Korean workers here illegal. Like, no one saw that one coming.

How'd they get here? Yeah, I don't know. Bering straight. Well, I don't know. I was like 200 years ago. The one thing I will say, though, is more so, well, maybe not more so. Let me clarify. Typically, the illegal immigrants from Asia we see are indentured servants.

So what you'll get is companies in Southeast Asia will say, we will move you to America, and you will owe us $50,000 and have to work force to. pay it back. Just general, it's illegal. You can't do this. They don't tell you this, right? They don't come and admit to the United States where it's all indentured servitude. They keep this on the books in China and Korea. So when you, a lot of the migrants that you meet working at Asian food restaurants or like spas and salons, they're indentured servants who have to work for 10 years for a trafficking organization. And that's illegal. I just don't think that there's a priority to enforce against it. Like no one in government.

cares. Do you think this is that? Sort of. The interesting thing about the indentured servants is that they're not here illegally. The company facilitates their immigration and pays the bills and then they owe a debt. So it's the endangered servitude. This is interesting because this is the much more nefarious. They brought these people here illicitly to have them build cars. That's crazy.

Shut that plant down. Yeah, in Georgia. Shut that plant down. Expropriate it from Hyundai. I mean, it's not going to. Oh, bro. It's not going to blow up Hyundai the corporation, but still. If I were king, I would seize the plant.

Yeah, absolutely. I'd walk in with Royal Guard and say, let this be known to all who seek to subvert the will of the American people, our economy, our laws. If foreign interests are operating factories with 500 illegal workers undercutting the American people, we will nationalize it in two seconds. Then what I do, as king, is I would auction it off to American car companies to own the factory. I don't want the government to own it. My joke on riff off that is, if I were king, what a glorious three days that would be. Look, whatever Donald Trump can do to punish this corporation, he should legal, whatever he can legally do, he should do. Whether it's expropriation, whether it's tariffs, whether it's, you know, I don't know if you can,

I don't know what latitude the president has, but he should make it painful for Hyundai for having 400 and whatever, 475 illegal aliens here in the United States because they facilitated. It's not just that they were, you know, they snuck in. These were Korean workers from a Korean company. That means the company facilitated them coming in. Oh, yeah.

There should be significant ramifications for Hyundai corporate. Yeah. Like maybe, maybe you have, maybe you tear it. I don't know if you tear off the company. but I know that there's all kinds of find them find them yeah fine find the absolute hell out of them there's all kinds of licensing that they have to do to be able to to build a you know a plant of this size in the united states you should go after them in korea in south korea not just here in the united states go after them in south korea for doing this just just to clarify uh out of 560 workers

300 were south koreans according to local media all of the illegal immigrants that were there there were 475 arrests uh it said of the 500 160 workers, 300 were South Korea nationals. So I think there's two distinct numbers here. Yeah, 500 total workers, 475 illegal. And that means some of the South Koreans may have been legal and many of them were not legal. But yeah, that's a good point. That means the company new and facility.

And we're talking about 300. We're talking to 475 illegal. That means Hyundai knew what they were doing. How many other Hyundai plants are there in the United States? Bro, just rate all of all of them. They should be rating them all tomorrow because you do have to take it up to corporate. you're right, starting to interrupt.

Yeah, absolutely. Like, this is, this is something that the corporate structure of Hyundai intentionally did. You know that meme of the police breaking

through the door and then coming through the ceiling and like, that's what we need. We need that at all these, these plants. You know, we were talking earlier in the show

about like ICE and the protests like disappearing and stuff. I'm sorry, National Guard and the protests kind of waning. I think ICE is playing a huge role in this.

It was remarkable when we saw the traffic in L.A. And they, the liberals ran to the high, They desperately try to say it's not true. There's still traffic. No, traffic in L.A. was down after the ice raids.

Whatever you think. We had this debate this morning on the use of military for law enforcement. And Piscoe, our resident liberal guy, was arguing that Trump shouldn't do it. It's illegal and military shouldn't be enforced in the law. He asked me if I thought they should be in California. And I said, depends on the circumstances. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. In this circumstance in California, what were.

they doing when the military was deployed? Child slave labor on marijuana farms. That's what they were stopping. If you go to the average American, I guarantee you nine to ten times, if you said if they were child slaves on a drug farm, should we send in National Guard, Marines, or military to rescue those kids and shut down the production and the facilities, they're going to say, yeah, absolutely. Okay. All right. emotional response is always, yes, is always go get them. Stop it. But you got to think how that can be twisted. I'm going to go ahead and say that in the event, child slaves are being forced to grow drugs. I don't, I could you, could you provide for me a hypothetical scenario where I would disagree with stopping that using military force?

If it was another illegal thing other than drugs, maybe, that underage people. No, no, no, no, no, no. We're talking about it. I'm trying to think of a similar circumstance in the future that might be replicated and national regard to get sent in. There is a drug farm. Child slaves are doing the work. And Trump says, I'm going to use the military to stop this. What reason could exist where we'd be like, no, no, no, Trump, don't use the military for this one? That's an honest question.

I mean, come up with any hypothetical you want. A giant boulder is dangling over the children with an evil villain saying, if you bring in the military, I'll cut the rope. That's not real, but I'm saying, give me a scenario where I, a reasonable person would be like, we better not use the military to. stop this child slavering at a drug farm? No, I think the reality is 100% of the time a reasonable person, like anyone here is going to be like, so child slaves are growing drugs? They have no choice. Let's go, let's go rescue them. What can't Donald Trump do when he gets Democrats to defend drug cartels, child slavery, this sort of thing? Yeah, I think it's open and shut. the Democrats are underwater on 80, 20 issues across the board, and this would, this was

be like a 95-5 issue. Oh, I mean, and the five only because some people are developmentally disabled. And on the farms. Is it just an operation where the National Guard was in and out? Yeah, they went in and basically made arrests of illegals and rescued the children who were working as slaves. But they didn't leave the National Guard is not still present? I don't believe at those facilities, but I do believe the National Guard is still present in California. Doing a sting operation with the military on domestic soil is also a risky precedent to set, but if it's a sting operation and you're in and out, that's way different than... It's not precedent. It's legal.

There are, so let's just clarify, because this is the debate we're having this morning. There are criteria by which Trump can deploy military for domestic law enforcement. It's called the Insurrection Act. In this case, he didn't do it. Now, what Piscoe argued is that Marines were assisting in execution of warrants. And my argument, and he said, so if it's illegal that Trump deploys the military, is it a good thing? And I'm like, sometimes.

That's just, it's a ridiculous sophistry to be like, there is, we're absolutist. Trump can never do a thing. I'm like, dude, in California there were marijuana farms. Children were brought there against their will to work on those farms. Yeah, sorry, if the local law enforcement isn't,

is facilitate, like protecting and facilitating this, Gavin Newsom won't do anything about it. I think Newsom should be brought to testify before Congress and criminally investigated for what his government did in facilitating child slave labor in his state and protecting against it, or at least being criminally negligent in not rescuing kids that they knew were being held as slaves. So when Donald Trump is like, okay, local laws are not being enforced, what is my, what authorities do I, you've got federal law enforcement, are they going to be equipped to go in?

and stop something as dangerous as like cartel child slave labor, maybe. Trump said, we'll use the National Guard with assistance from the Marines. And I say, good, good. Like, I don't care. The people are going to argue, but the precedent of the military, the precedent of the military stopping child slave labor? Listen, come to me when Marines are arresting a guy in front of an abortion clinic for praying, okay, and we'll have a conversation about free speech and the line being crossed.

But I'm not playing this game where liberals say, you are never allowed to stop evil and we have no choice but to let evil happen. When you say child slaves or were they like illegally brought here? Yes. And smuggled in and they're just working on a farm? And forced by the cartels to work. You've got to rescue the kids. Indeed.

But notice when Eisenhower sent the National Guard to integrate schools in Arkansas or Alabama, I forget. I think it was Montgomery, Alabama. So everybody, all the liberals, progressives, yay. They're not concerned about precedent. They're concerned about outcomes.

If something advances their agenda, they're for it. And if something retards their agenda, they're against it. And they don't care about process. I agree, though. What's that? This is the argument I had with Piscoe. I said that I disagree with Trump. He should ban TikTok.

It's already been codified as law and signed into law that TikTok should be banned and Trump is refusing to do. it. And he said, why are you citing law? I thought you said sometimes. I thought you said Trump shouldn't follow the law because it's ridiculous sophistry. And I said sometimes in my moral worldview, TikTok is destroying this country. Trump should enforce the ban. I'm questioning why Trump is allowing TikTok to remain. And I think it has to do with moneyed interests. And it's fascinating to me that when I say Donald Trump has moneyed interests in TikTok so will not ban it despite the law being passed, liberals defend that and say, no.

No, TikTok is, oh, the point is, I consider myself, I've said this for 10 years, philosophically anarchist. I understand that the only laws that can enforce are the laws that people are willing to enforce. I don't believe that the way we should live as a nation is anarchy. So that's why I say philosophically, I recognize if you do not use your power, you have none. That means if Donald Trump says there are child slaves on a farm in California, and the standard process to end this would be local law enforcement, California putting an end to it. We say, did it happen? No, we move down to the next step. Then what do we do? The feds get sent in to put an end to it. What we get from libertarians

and not the good Mises caucus libertarians, we like those guys. But we had a debate, a debate with a reason magazine libertarian. The conversation was Democrats have illegally and illicitly arrested Trump's lawyers unconstitutionally tried to stifle his campaign to steal power in the United States. What is the remedy? And I was told by the libertarian, none. Democrats are allowed to be evil, but Republicans can't enforce a law against them because that would create escalation of conflict between political parties. So it's, you just do nothing. And I said, well, then they'll do it again. And the corruption will get worse. And you will live in a corrupt system with tyrants. It's like, yeah, well, if Trump starts arresting Democrats for the illegal things they did,

that's tyranny. And the liberals say the same thing. Listen, I understand there are child slaves on that farm, but it would be illegal to stop it. Also, I know that ICE enforcement is legal, and we're going to use Maltaf cocktails to stop it despite it being illegal. I recognize that only those who are willing to use the power they have have power, and I will state it publicly and fairly to everybody. I will not defend communists who try to take my free speech when their free speech is taken. okay, and I'm not going to sit back and let child slave labor continue. And this argument that it may be illegal doesn't fly because y'all Maltaff-cocktailed cops for years.

So I don't think you actually care about the law and you're lying to me trying to use our goodwill. I know, you know, Doug, you and I, we agree there should be a law and a mechanism by which law is enforced so we don't like it if cops are illegally or unjustly arresting people. They use that against us and say, Don't you believe in being fair in the Constitution and good jurisprudence? And we say, yes. Okay, well, you can't stop the child slave labor.

I'm sick of it. These people have child slaves, okay? We have crossed that line a long time ago. And I will put the cherry on top. It is not even illegal what Trump is doing. He has the authority to send in the Marines and the National Guard, literally whatever he wants. He has to declare it. Not to enforce the law.

No, no, no, no. Trump can send all of the Marines Every single one right into downtown Chicago They just can't enforce law He can tell them I need you to go stand in Chicago And they'll say okay All I'm doing is standing on the corner

But if a guy like gets in his face Can they shoot him because he got too close? No But I mean what if the guy's like aggressing on him So are you saying if a Marines Like he's aggressing Marines life is being threatened Can he defends his life is being threatened? Literally any human in the United States

Is allowed to do that Except in like Maryland So a guy with an M-16 Like it's 1970. You're allowed to carry guns in the United States, too, Ian. If you carried an M-16, you're not going to have one of those because they made it illegal. But let's say you had an AR-15 and you were walking around West Virginia and a guy threatened your life or threatened you with great bodily harm. You can defend yourself.

So my point is, I would not be happy if Trump sent all of the Marines into Chicago just to stand there. I'd be like, this is a waste of resources. It is cluttering things up. It's good for the economy, I guess. They'll buy a lot of hot dogs. The businesses would be booming. There's better ways to go about law enforcement. But when they say the estimate right now is that the Trump administration will send about 80 National Guard into each city, 80.

I mean, come on. What is that? This is his first step. What he's doing is he's flying the flag. So Teddy Roosevelt sent the – there's a great story about Teddy Roosevelt who sent the great white fleet around the world. And Congress only apportioned enough money to send them. halfway there, but he was flying the flag on all these international ports, show

of strength, and so Roosevelt sent the fleet to the other side of the world with half the money, and then told Congress if you want the fleet back, then you're going to have to be it to. You're going to have to bring it back. So here's the argument. Trump wants to send, the estimate is about

80 national guard in 19 cities. They will have no law enforcement capability that would require the insurrection act. Or there's a act. I forgot what it was. There's two. Insurrection Act allows the military, National Guard. There's another one. I forgot what it's called. He's not doing it. What do we see in D.C.? Liberals complained National Guard was picking up trash. D.C. Now, here's the issue. Gang, I'll tell you this. I'll

speak for Chicago. I as a Chicagoan want the National Guard in my hometown, particularly in my neighborhood where gang violence and just urban street violence is bad. The argument, the play is if two National Guard are simply unarmed standing in the park, the gangbangers will not go there because they don't want to pick a fight with the military. Now, if it's local police, they don't care because they know the extent of where the police can operate. A lot of these gangbangers know they can go to Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa, or St. Louis or whatever, and they operate out of the prisons as it is.

But everybody, they all know, hey, man, you don't want to, if you, if you, if you, you, if you, you go and shake someone down with a gun and you do a drive-by and there's National Guard there, you are going to open up the can of worms. And so the idea is just put two National Guard to hang out and they'll avoid the area. Well, it works. That does work, but it like at what cost? D.C. is a different story. What cost?

What's the cost? The cost is you've got federal troops in domestic cities. And if the federal government goes psycho, you're... Okay. Well, if they do, we'll complain about it when they do. That's not the way it works, dude. If they do, you're done. Could work.

And when the Democrats did, are we? done and what are we doing about it? If the Democrats were trying to put National Guard in our cities to activate Operation 57 or whatever the emperor does when he clicks the button and now the Intersection Act is open and now everybody can shoot. You know that J.B. Pritzker did deploy the National Guard when crime got bad and affected the wealthy elites in Illinois and Chicago. You know that Barack Obama actually, I think it was Obama, facilitated the National Guard deployment into Ferguson during the Ferguson riots. During a riot. I get the during a riot. And in D.C. is cool because like it was 1783 when there was a riot in Philly that I think it was Madison, James

Madison. Someone was like, we need protection for the capital. We need to protect our capital with federal cops. That's why you can do that in D.C. And it was like a soft precedent to make people think it was normal to do in other domestic cities. It's not. Is the argument, so when would it be appropriate for the federal government to deploy any amount of troops, be it lower level national guard to higher level Marines? Like, there's a riot. Just a riot. If there's like something like a riot? What if 20 million non-citizens are illegally in our country flying their own flags and just operating illicit businesses, drug trafficking, drug trade, and gang violence? I don't think it's acute enough. What if there's 800 dead? What if children are growing up in

neighborhoods where they hear gunshots hitting windows and teenagers are getting murdered and doing drugs? Like, it's fascinating that if we went back to an older time when there were less people in the United States, no American city in the 1700s would tolerate the amounts of crime and violence that we have. I mean, they would go to war over it. One Native American coming against you. Well, they'd lynch the criminals back in the day. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, look at the, was it 1912 or whatever, that TV show? They're in the West and a guy's accused of me to pick pocket. And without evidence, they just hang him on the spot. They throw rope over a post, put it in his neck, and yank them up. But that leads to a really important.

important point that people miss about law enforcement. Ultimately, if you're not enforcing the law, not guarding, making the streets safe, everybody thinks the police force and the National Guard is there to protect the citizen. Ultimately, they're there to protect the criminal. Right. Because with, with, without this enforcement, at some point, the people are going to revolt. There's going to be a vigilante recoil, and the criminals are going to be hung from lampposts without a trial, without any kind of due process, and you're going to have vigilante justice, you're going to have lynchings, you're going to have all kinds of mayhem, because the government won't do its fundamental duty of protecting the streets. You can see it in England, dude. You see it brewing

in England right now. Indeed. So, so, the king's just sitting on its hands. There is a problem in your country when you need to send in National Guard over these things. And maybe the end result is just we break down and it falls apart. I don't know. But I will say this. We had a culture war debate show live and we were debating the Trump deporting Kilmarer-Garcia, an MS-13 gang member who lived in Maryland. And of course, the resident liberal who was from New York and on the show was saying Trump shouldn't be doing this. It's wrong. And then a Maryland resident came up and says, you don't live here and know what we deal with with MS-13, killing people and drug smuggling, the fear we have, the graffiti that tells us to be afraid. And then Trump takes one of these guys and sends him

home. All he does is send him home. And then you say, we should be forced to live this way. This is what I can't stand about the whole debate right now on the National Guard issue. I understand there are people in Chicago who don't want the National Guard. I will happily debate them and say, how about I get National Guard in my neighborhood where my friends agree with this? And you don't get the National Guard in your country. neighborhood. And we're good. So I told this to Pisco. There was an area in Chicago where I grew up by Midway Airport. We had an area called the Leclair Courts. It was predominantly black and it was gangs. The Insane Popes was one of the gangs there. Gang violence, robbery, muggings,

kids joining the gang. It was a terrible influence. And in my life, I have stories of my friends. I'm on the phone with my friend and he's like, I'm watching someone drag a corpse through the alley. The next day on the news, they found a body in a dumpster. Friends of mine who died. People, like my friend's brother who was forced to kill people because the gang made him do it when he was 13. Because don't worry, you get out of juvie in five years. So the area that was predominantly fomenting this crime was a largely, it was just north of 47th. And it was predominantly black.

So the city, you know, they dealt with the crime? They bulldozed all the houses and kicked everybody out. and all the gangbangers and all of these this criminal element were just moved to other areas in the suburbs.

So they didn't enforce the law because they struggled with it. The police, who I have a certain degree of respect for the Chicago police, but they are a largely corrupt institution. You know, you had

Burge, I think the guy's name was, who tortured people and electrocuted them. Oh, that black ops site, that big building? Oh, there's more than one and they still operate to this day. And the problem in my neighborhood

was that when we would We would complain to the police about the constant robberies at our park. Vidam Park, Google it, lit up. You can see where I'm from. I live down Laramie. Shout out to Jimmy Dorr, who's from the same neighborhood who lived two blocks away from me. No joke. When I was three years old, Jimmy lived two blocks away from me.

That's crazy. When I found out, he was like, you're from Chicago? I'm like, yeah, I was aware. I was like by Vitam Park, my midway. And he goes, no kidding. Me too. Anyway, I digress. You can go look it up.

The police would tell us, hey, look, man, if we arrest these guys, we're going to get in trouble for being racist. Not joking. They'd say, we can't be seen to just be arresting black people. And we would be like, we don't care if they're black, dude. Some of our, like we have friends who are black. It's not the issue. We're just asking for us the guy who robbed my friend.

And they're like, but don't you get it? The people who are robbing you and selling drugs are all from the black neighborhood. And so they wouldn't do it. They wouldn't do it. So what did the city do? In 2009, they said, we're going to tear down these old, old, shoddy buildings and rebuild better ones for all of you. It'll be temporary. It wasn't. No, what they really did was they demolished the entire black neighborhood, forcing all of these

people to Joliet and other suburbs where my friends tell me the stories about what's going on now because a crime didn't go away. But the city of Chicago was like, why don't we? Hey, we fixed it as far as the city's concerned. Patrick. And so my argument is this. When Ian, you from Ohio, tell me that as my friends get shot and my other friends die of heroin overdoses, it is tyranny if we beg for help to stop it. I just, I reject that. And I say, I'll tell you what,

you don't got to have the National Guard in your neighborhood. But as a kid, as a kid growing up, when the gang bangers would pull up and roll down their windows, flashing a gun and being like, what you is, boy. And then I'd be like, I ain't nothing. Leave me alone. They'd be like, and then they'd throw up a gang sign and shout out their gang and leave.

The stories, man, south side of Chicago. Everybody knows. I would have loved it if they were two National Guard guys that literally just walked up and down Archer every day. I'd walk next to him as I went to the park. You're telling me makes me want more vengeance on people. I'm a vengeance human. I was bullied as a kid and I liked to see people hurt for doing hurt. So I don't know.

I feel you. I'm trying to be practical. My issue is there is an emotional component to, I just can't. stand these uppity liberals in New York and billionaires like Pritzker, Pritzker going on TV saying, Trump should not be sending the National Guard here. And I'm like, you fat piece of crap, there's a hot dog joint by where I grew up. And you can look it up. It's called L&M. It's on 47th in Laramie. I was on four, I grew up on 49th in Laramie. And we were scared to go there for hot dogs because the windows were bulletproof and there were bullet holes in the window.

And, you know, look, this is the south side of Chicago. I think it's fair to say that life has been worse before in war and in times of crisis and famine. I get it. But that doesn't mean we don't stop the crime now, especially as people are growing up in these ways. What you're saying reminds me of years ago when the federal government, people who don't have skin in the game, the federal government reintroduced the wolf into Idaho. Right, right, right. you know oh great yeah thank you know they farmers were like and we thought and and we've got wolves in our area because of because of it and but our idaho senator at the time proposed a measure

to reintroduce the grizzly into new york state so basically in an orderly society everybody should play by the same rules you can't bet with other people's money other people's lives. So if things deteriorate to a certain point where riots are normal, the crime is out of control, and you can have a deadly weekend in Chicago without a riot, you know, it's just, my, my neighborhood in Chicago was a Democrat up until 2020 when it turned purple and 2024 turned red. This is urban liberal Chicago voted for Donald Trump in my neighborhood. And so I talked to my friends. Like some of my homies from back home, they work here.

We hang out. And I was literally talking to Andy, who's, we grew up together at Vidham Park by Midway. And I mentioned part of the debate after the show and did. And he started talking about the suburbs, the gangbangers. They moved out there in the suburbs now. And he's like, and I'm like, could you imagine when we were growing up and we were trying to skateboard? Literally, that's what we were kids.

And we'd ride around our skate. We'd play with Pokemon cards. We would skateboard. We'd go to the comic shop. and instead of having gaggles of gangbangers mugging us there were a couple

of national guard just walking down the street do you think I was like would anyone care no not a single one of these people would have cared

if there was a couple national guard walking down the street when I was in South America I lived in Chile and Santiago and that's the thing in there is all federal

cops so you see federal allies on the corner just standing there and it is disconcerting in a way that it's like not all law is good and sometimes if the

federal government is evil and you need to be able to break their laws in seclusion in your community. And if there's feds everywhere, you can't. So that's my concern. I certainly, this is one thing I brought up in the debate. I certainly understand. I said, weed as a schedule one drug seems kind of crazy. I'm fairly libertarian, but I don't, I think we need cultural solutions. I'm over like a Ron Paul guy. Like, abortion should be, shouldn't be illegal, should be unthinkable. I'll throw it to Wade's thoughts who made the

argument, a constitution is what constitutes the people. And by the time you get to having to write down what your laws are, your people are already breaking up morally. I think the proper way of society should function is everyone just agrees abortion is bad. So it doesn't need to be on the books. Nobody would dare do it. Same thing is true for marijuana. So I agree that like some dude who's got a small bag of pot going to prison is not helping your society. It's not fixing the problem. I don't want people going around and smoking pot all the time, which means now I'll throw it to Moxie Marlin Spike who made, who answered the question when I interviewed him 10 years ago or whatever. Why is it bad that we have mass surveillance? And he said,

Sometimes we decide a society that laws need to be repealed. Whatever that law may be, it's not the point. How do we figure out the law needs to be repealed? Prohibition is a good example. It's because people were drinking and they recognized they were okay with drinking. If the government spot on you 24-7, no one would ever touch alcohol again and alcohol would remain illegal forever. Some people may want that to be the case, but the point is to recognize that in a functioning

Republic, we sometimes say, you know what, that law does need to be changed, but how do you know unless some people sometimes break it? So there has to be some tolerance. The way I describe protest, for instance, as I say that far left activists should be allowed to obstruct streets, link arms and, you know, wear the chains or whatever, allowed in the sense that we don't beat them or kill them or lock them up for life. No, no, no. When you chain yourself to a door, we tolerate that and say, okay, okay, now we're going to give you a minor charge for disorderly conduct. You've crossed the line, but we recognize tolerance for civil disobedience because there needs to be pressure release. Otherwise, people get violent. And then you get shootings and chaos.

So a Republican system that we have will say, you're not supposed to block the street, but we get what you're doing it. We're going to be a slap on the wrist. We get it. It happens. We'll clear it out and try and be reasonable in your discomfort. and your efforts towards assembly and speech. We don't want a 1984 society where no one can do anything, can't express themselves at all, and then it ends up with a lunatic

just ramming a car into a building. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking about the levels of crime in the United States right now, because it's, it really, we do need to do something, something. I just, oh man, well, I'd love to go on to the next story, too.

I don't know, personally, I don't know if National Guard equals solution. I don't know if military equals solution necessarily in the domestic... We'll see. It actually, this is the point I was making. Perhaps it just signifies when you get to that point, your society is breaking apart as it is. I do think with the, it was funny, another component of the debate was that the population is collapsing. Oh, that's why crime was down.

Yeah, that was an interesting point you guys made earlier. One of the reasons why crime has been disbanded. Well, so tuberculosis is breaking out in Maine right now. And let's actually, you know, let's do an ex. Let me, let me pull. this one up. This is actually a really important story. This has to do with immigration. Fox News reports three active tuberculosis cases reported in Maine as deadly disease continues to tick up across the country. TB killed around 1.3 million globally in 2022.

As in the last year, I believe there are about 10,400 cases of tuberculosis in the United States. That was a high. It had been going down after 2011. It is not. at a considerable high. I don't want to say it's a record or anything. I don't know for sure, but it is very, very high for this country. And there's a very obvious reason why tuberculosis is so high right now

in the United States. Would anyone like to take a meandering guess? Maybe immune systems being destroyed from the last four years? No. Immigrants. Illegal immigrants. That may be too. The mass importing of people from third world countries

where tuberculosis is more common as the United States has antibiotics and extremely easy to eradicate. actually a premise of a house episode we watched recently where this fancy doctor who goes to Africa was like TB is curable but we won't give the drugs to these countries in the United States you walk into the hospital they hand you a little cup and say here's your medicine you'll be fine in no time how is it then that TB is on the rise we imported tons of sick people from the third world now here's what gets scarier the rate of increase the amount of tuberculosis cases

should actually be going down, considering fertility is down. Another point that was made in the morning debate, that when we say something like, hey, crime is down, the argument from the liberal, crime is down, meaning we've done a good job of stopping violent crime. Well, that's a spurious correlation. The data suggests many things, one of which is with lower fertility means less young people. The population increased only because of net migration from adults. crime is typically perpetrated by young men, mainly older teenage males commit crimes.

When fertility declines, 20 years from that point, you will have a smaller number of older teenage males, meaning your crime rate will go down. It does not actually mean that crime as a percentage has gone down or you've done anything good as a society. It actually is bad. So when tuberculosis is up, when population is down, it's indicative of a higher rate of transmission, largely among illegal immigrant newcomer population, this is really bad for the country. So we shouldn't do it. I've been playing a bunch of crusader kings. You guys ever play that game?

And it's just all about conquest and just ripping people out of their homes. You're just a king in the middle ages. The way you would handle an immigration crisis? I mean, really? It's 1700? What you would do in 1320? You play civilization? With a sword. Dude, it is all. Yeah, that's the fast way. I mean, that's the ultimate way. You know what I love? Civ 7, Civilization 7's bombed, and I guess Fraxas is firing tons of people because of how bad the game was. I guess what should happen, we have a competency crisis in this country. But I will say this. To anybody who's played the Civilization games, notably after I think four, when they introduced borders, you played Civ, right?

All of them except seven. Yeah, me too. I haven't played the newest. I ain't going to play it. Okay, so anyway, for those that are not familiar, civilization is a recommendation for all of your children who are old enough to use a computer. Keep them off the internet, but civilization is great. I say four, where you get Leonard Nemo, Leonard Nimoy, are reading all those famous quotes.

Four was fantastic. I love it. So you build a city. The game is basically, it starts with a single individual pioneer or settler. You build cities, you create your country, and over time, you build a nation, advanced technologically, and there are other nations you're at war with or allied with. The game is civilization. It's fun.

Well, in the game, someone will come to your border, and you will then have a meeting with their king and maybe it's Caesar, maybe it's Abraham Lincoln, who knows. And they will say, I propose open borders between our peoples. And sometimes it's worth doing. That means your people can move through their country and explore and their people can move through your country and explore. But for anybody who's played the game, the people who developed it understood something. You will meet a rival nation on your border. They will ask for open borders. You will agree. and you'll start to notice military armed individuals from their country come through your country and then kind of just stand there. And there's one guy standing like that, they put their military

guy near my city just standing there. What's he doing? And you'll say, well, I guess we have open borders. What's the big deal? The next turn, another guy. The next turn, another guy. The next turn, another guy. The next turn, another guy. Then there's like seven military units from their country in your country through open borders. And you'll send an emissary to their leader and say, what's the big deal and they'll say, hey, we have open borders. What's the problem? The next turn they attack you and take over your cities. You open your borders. Slowly they come in and tell you everything's fine. And then once they have critical mass, they say, we're declaring war on you. And then they take over your city and you lose your country. Anecdally. Civilization. One of the games, I think it was

Civ 5, they made it so when they did do a surprise attack on you, all their units got moved out of your country by default. It was super cheap because that's not what happens in real life. In real life, they're already here. And that's the point. Yeah. It is a really fascinating game where you can take over their country through culture. Yeah, that's a cool. That's what America likes to do. Yeah, and science.

I like science. Science because you can build the best military with the best science. You can build the best culture with the best science. I love that game because my strategy was always leave me alone, very libertarian American style. And I would mass industry, technological development, mass militarization, but never war. And then when the country was stupid enough to declare war, I would. I'd nuke them. The reason I brought up the game, video games in general and games, and just because this is, it's such a traumatic, like, it's this experience of this mass migration over the last

four years has been such a traumatic on my psyche. I mean, I don't, I'm constantly thinking about like, how do we deal with it without dragging people out of here, but you have to drag people out. So northwards of 12 million in Biden's four years north of that. That's six Idaho's. And one Idaho is too many? You can destroy an entire country. Like, Romans, not all countries are destroyed by an invasion or a plague. Sometimes you're destroyed because the fabric of your society has been

distorted to the point of destruction by immigration, rapid immigration. Actually, I just want to clarify, it was a joke. Idaho is actually awesome. It's fantastic. What is? Idaho. It is. I know people who have moved there because it's good family. It's great. I knew it was a joke.

There's going to be someone out there being like, how dare you, Tim. Idaho's great. I know. Idaho is awesome. A lot of wide open space. Potatoes. So I'm looking at like, you know, how do we, how do we handle? Now I'm like, oh, immigrants are coming here and bringing disease to our country now. We handle immigrants. They're by supporting them.

55 million visa holders. Yeah. If they so much as sneeze wrong, they need to go. A visa holder? If they don't cover. So like a tourist shows up and they're just like, I'm very great to see our country. Hach you out! Well, if they don't cover.

their nose, yes. If they sneeze on someone, got to go. I mean, look, I'll go so far as if my cat sneezes, they're out. Yeah, there you go. But look, the point is, we need to use every legal means necessary to remove the people that are here illegally. And if you have a visa, you are here as a guest. So if you break any of our laws, you do anything that is counter to American, that will not benefit America or that will harm America, you just got to go. And I've said this a bunch of times. Just like we're talking about with Hyundai, if people employ

illegals, go after the companies. The Democrats say that all the time. Go after the companies. Yes, they're right on that. Same thing with people that rent homes or apartments to illegals. If you're doing, if you're renting, if you're knowingly renting to illegals, go.

They lose their property. They got good skiing in Idaho. Yeah. Good mountains. Do you think that there's like an off ramp or maybe a better phrase for that. Like, is there a dissent after the immigration crisis that we're experiencing right now? Like, is there a level of amount of people that have been extricated now that we can stop national emergency eyes in it? I want to see a complete shutdown of all immigration except for 01 visas for the next decade. I think you'd agree with other visas.

Well, okay, so the reason I specify L1-0-1s is because they are for their for people that are a benefit. If we have individuals... I think it's like the K visas. If there are individuals that actually bring a benefit to the United States on an individual level, they can come. Their family can't come, right?

Maybe a spouse and kids, but granny can't come. You know, cousins can't come. So, like, what about someone who is marrying somebody? That's the K-1 visa. Yeah, if you're married and your family, your immediate family can come. fiance. So if you're, if you're going to get married to someone, they get a K1 visa, they can come, and then you get married to them, they can be here. Yeah, that I think

that's fine. But brother, there's so many visas. I actually, and I agree with what you're saying. I just think that for the sake of clarity, we can point out, O1 isn't the only visa you would personally approve of. There's many of them. Yeah, my premise is if you're ever going to come to the United States and bring a specialty skill or something like that, then fine. So there probably doesn't need to be as many types of visas. You can probably cover that stuff with, but let's go I'd love to go through the nitty gritty of these visas. So tourism visas largely are okay because you're like, you have three months. But there's obviously people who seek to overstay and use that illegally.

Trump has said, we're going to do a fee. It's $2.50 to apply. When you leave, you get it back. But there's business, B1 business visitors. Typically when someone from like allied nations want to come here for business, they just show up and we have visa on entry. Totally fine with it. There's student and exchange programs. I actually think we should slice those way, way down.

So that's FM and J visas. I don't really care about having all these Chinese exchange students coming to the United States. Anyone that's a visitor, they should either get like an air tag or an app in their phone so that way the federal government can monitor their location. You're not a citizen. You don't have the right to privacy. Let's play that game too. Like if you come here on a work visa, then we get to put an ankle monitor on you.

I mean that figuratively, like, we should be able to track. You do not have the same rights. You are a visitor. But let me point this out. H1B, everybody knows. H2A, gone. That is temporary ag workers. H2B, gone, temporary non-ag workers. We don't need that.

H3 trainees, nope. H4, dependence of H? No way. The L1A and the L1B, intra-company transferees, managers, executives, or specialized knowledge. I say absolutely not. So many of these other countries won't let the, so in the United States, a Brazilian can launch a company right now on the internet and then use that company to hire themselves and find a way to migrate here to the United States. They don't allow that. All these other

countries, many of them, don't allow us to send our citizens to their country to be managers. So I don't know why we do this. Now, there is the 01, extraordinary abilities, O2, support for 01 visa holders. O3 and the dependents of the O1. So the O visas we're largely okay with. We're talking about like you're a rocket scientist coming here. The staff members of the rocket scientist, Elon Musk or whatever, and the dependents, okay, you can't tell them they can have their kids. I'm actually helping sponsor the guy who invented Flash Jewel heating process. There you go. Yeah. There's the P visas, artists, athletes, and performers, and their dependents. I'm actually totally fine with that as well. The issue there is just, it's got to be

legitimate, qualifying, and they got to basically pass the test, okay? So which is, if someone says I'm an extraordinary athlete. Like, we're literally talking about a pro basketball, a baseball player from Japan. Golfers. Golfer, best of the best, world record breaker. And they're like, I want to come and plan the American team or golfer. I'm totally cool with that.

No mariachi bands. What if it's the best mariachi band? No. Bro, mariachi bands are awesome. They can be. They can be skilled musicians, but I'm not a fan of Maryachi. He wants American mariachi bands. And then there's the R visa holders.

Do you know what our visa holder is? religious workers no depends on the religion missionaries so I'm actually I say no to this completely because I don't think we should the government

should create a special class for someone on religious grounds to be here you're either here for a legitimate legitimate tourism reason but this argument would be that Muslims can come as missionaries to the United States and their right to be here is simply because

because they're Muslim. I don't care if they're Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Confuciist, Taoist, whatever. You're on Taoism lately. Like someone being like, I should get to come to your country. Why? I'm a Taoist. It's like, come on. Simply because you believe something? No, no, no, no, no. You should allow Christian missionaries to come. I don't think, as much as I would prefer a Christian missionary over many other missionaries, I don't think simply because you believe in a certain religion. Because basically everyone's just going to try and make that argument to gain access. So, Right. But societies have to make up their mind on stuff.

Sure. And one of the things we could make up our mind on is that Christianity is a blessing to society and other religions aren't. It's funny because there are a lot of, I don't know what you'd call it, left the left people who also then found Christianity. I don't know if I trust them, but I'm not going to blame someone for bettering their life. And I personally know people who have been saved by Christianity. I personally don't know people whose lives have been damaged by Christianity. I've not heard stories like that. I know drug addicts and former gang members who, when they came to Christianity, they were saved.

They live good lives. The book I did with Christopher Hitchens, the title is, Is Christianity Good for the World? And I think the answer is resoundingly, yes. I happen to believe, I don't want to make a pragmatic argument simply for Christianity. because I'm a preacher. I want to say we should believe it because it's true, not because it's helpful. Because like you said, people can argue lots of self-help things are helpful. But basically, you have to, at some point, missionaries are a thing. Christianity is a missionary religion. If we don't want some country that we have a trade agreement with banning Christian missionaries

from America going there, then I don't think we should ban Christian missionaries coming from them. You know, the historical revisionism is interesting, and it's funny that Christians allowed it to happen. When you hear these stories from the leftist activists about, like, the oppression

of the Native Americans and all that stuff, and it's just like, you know, listen, I'm not going to sit here and say that the law of 1600 was something we'd uphold today, okay? I mean, bad things happened across. Wars were bad, and people did bad stuff. We get it. We get it. But how are you going to defend child sacrifice rituals and, like, ripping people's hearts out? I'm not saying all Native Americans were bad. But this, this, this argument that European Christian colonists were uniquely evil is just like, oh, the Aztecs were one of the, at least the history tells the story that the Aztecs, who knows what they really were, but the Spanish tell us. We've all seen apocalyptic. I don't know they drink it. You were mentioning sports earlier. The Mayans had a game. It was not basketball, but it was a ball game, and they would play, and the losing team would be executed.

You know, I thought that... Hey, hey, look, the Romans at the Coliseum. We got to go to chat. Sorry, because I was about talking about Christianity, no wonder. Well, we got to go to chats because we went a little bit of long. Let's do this, you guys. So, smash the like button, share the show, of course. It's Friday night.

It's summertime. Everyone's out partying. I get it. But thank you all for hanging out with us. 65 when we get out of here. 82 coming in, 65 on the way out. 79 degrees right now. Oh, snap.

Oh, snap. All right. Shane H. Wother says, everyone needs to congratulate Brett Dasevic. He and Olivia are getting married this weekend. They grew up so fast. One minute they're talking about person of interest. The next, they're getting hitched.

Congratulations. To our very own Brett Dasevic of pop culture crisis, getting married has wonderful news. You know, if you've never had a conversation with Brett, you should. He's an excellent conversationalist. Smart feller. Cool guy. Hops and Bruce, as I played drums on a cover of Sweet Home Alabama at a RCC family that Doug Wilson sang lead vocals in early 2000.

Is that true? Yeah. Birmingham, they love the governor. They sure do. What a great song, man. Yeah, I don't know, man. That Neil Young guy. Southern Man don't need him around any of.

Yeah, that's one of my favorite lines. It's so good. The story was that he wrote a song, ragging on the South. Is that what it was? Yeah, he wrote a song called Southern Man. Yeah. And Bullwips Cracken and everything. and Leonard Skinner gave it right back to him.

That's cool. Oh, man. All right, what do we got here? St. Miles says, Tim, ask your guest about the Bank of America burning in the 60s. The Bank of America burning in the 60s. There were a number of burnings and bombings, so I don't remember that one. There was the Capitol in Washington, D.C. was bombed. It was in the 80s, though, wasn't it?

I think it was earlier. than that. And then my high school in the 60s had an SDS chapter, students for Democratic Society, which was basically a terrorist organization. Yeah, it was

a turbulent, it really was a turbulent time. This is 1970, February 25, Bank of America Branch, and is Ila Vista burned? It was a big deal 1970, and did it ring a bell to you? We got Guido. He says, my little girl,

will be 16 tomorrow. She helped create an orchestra in our small town. She helped me restore her truck and she gives me hope for Gen Z. Happy birthday, Abby. Shout out. I am envious. I have very few regrets, if any, at all. But I wish my wife and I had our kids sooner. I wish we were doing family stuff a lot. Everybody says that and I'm like, ah. Yep. Today, my daughter's, it's not the first time, but she was on her tummy kicking her feet going, da, da, da, da, da. Yeah, she got good rhythm. And, uh, and she's singing. We, we play music for her. And, uh, last week she's going, da, da, da, da. That's, I was probably like, I'm like, let's go. Two months ago, I think we were all, we were in the car driving and Allison was driving and you were in the backseat with the girl.

And, um, you were singing. And then she was like, you were like, da, dat, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. She was like, ah, ah, and to the untrained ear, you just think she was making, but I could hear her tone. She was mimicking you. Oh, bro. I filmed a video today. She just looked at me and went, ha, ha, ha, ha. and I'm like, this is awesome. She's singing. She's just screaming. Well, that's what I wake up to.

She's six and a half months. It's just I wake up to, ah, bah. But now she's, she's vocalized. She's been vocalizing a little bit more and more and more. It's great. So now she says, da, da, da, she said la la la today for the first time. La. Yeah, it's a big.

You may wish that you had started earlier, but it's amazing how fast it goes by. Yeah. It goes by really fast. yeah it's just because I need you know we need someone to do chores it's like oh you know what I mean 16 right now I'd be like hey go pick up the mail no but the time will come the time will come we're excited all right and so my recommendation to everybody and you don't need to hear it for me but you know when you can do it you can have a family it's fun Colin Christie says Tim you're slowly marching back to Christianity much like this former altar boy marched back to Catholicism

this last Palm Sunday you're a good person my man there have been people who have said Tim how come you praise Christianity, but you won't just be a Christian. And it's like, I can recognize objective good coming from my friends, the ideas they push, the history of this nation. That doesn't mean that I believe. And I'm not going to lie to you and pretend to believe because it earns me brownie points. Pretty sure if I came out and claimed to be a Christian, I'd get more followers or something. I just, I don't know. Yeah, you can't lie your way into God's good graces. Yeah. So let me offer a definition of what it is to prove something. you've proven something, whether it's theological or any other proof, when you have created

a moral obligation to agree with it. So when someone presents you with the gospel and it would be you committing a sin to say no, that's the point where you need to submit. If you're fighting against what you know to be true, then that is the problem. But until you know it to be true, it'd be bad for political reasons or social reasons to conform to something that you're not convinced for personal gain. I'll keep it simple for everybody. I believe in God. I believe we have purpose.

I believe that God has a mandate for us and a plan for us. But I don't believe the Christian faith base. I don't believe the Jewish faith base either. Well, the center of the faith base for Christians is that Jesus rose from the dead. If Jesus rose from the dead, everything follows. If he didn't, then it doesn't. That's the linchpin. Yeah, I would say that I am agnostic on the resurrection.

I don't believe it. In my mind, I think about it, there's something, there's a lot of things that I believe, and I am passionate about this is not one of them, and I'm not going to lie to people and pretend that I am for the sake of audience. But think about this. even the materialistic atheist believes in life from the dead because for him everything was once inorganic matter and here we are we are we are outstretchings of piles upon piles of dead right so Christians are those who believe that life from the dead god created adam out of the dust of the ground the atheist believes

that evolution that we evolved out of primordial goo but in both cases inanimate matter, animate matter. Christians are the ones who believe it will happen again. Atheists are wrong. I believe atheists are incorrect. I believe that even from the most secular of liberal worldviews, if you were, the probability based on what we think we know in science today leans towards the existence of God. I actually believe it's observable that there is God based on what is observable in the universe and what humans have collected his knowledge already.

lately, but now I'm like, but your perceptions can be flawed. So, like, if everything seems like it's God, it could be a bunch of other stuff that's making it seem like. The end road of that is you're going to be wind up as a brain and a vat. Well, it's just, you don't have to believe anything. But I would put it like this. If you believe that science, as we've collected the information and operate upon today, is true, then this predicts the existence of God.

And it's, it's, there's an elaboration. I have arguments with atheists all the time where they say they don't understand. I know it's overly simplistic what I'm saying. But the simplest of versions is that life organizes, life creates order within systems of entropy, and there is no reason to believe that life is the end-all be-all of the creation of complex systems. So whether it be the organization of matter from particles into denser elements or molecules, into single cell, multi-cell, then finally, life as we know it on the planet,

then the systems that life creates, then the language and the math and the abstract. Humans can create order in thought that exists in no tangible reality. So this predicts there will be a higher level. Mathematically, it makes no sense. It's like a Sudoku puzzle. We can't see what's there,

but we know that everything's pointing to the existence of a higher form of order. This, I think, gives us at the bare minimum a simple probability of the existence of God. Probability, probable. And that means if you're going to live your, if you're going to play an EV plus life where you're like, what makes the most sense,

the dice roll you'd always want to take is there's a God. Now, I actually could argue with someone for, not I'd argue, but I could go in a great detail for hours explaining why I believe actually you can calculate to the point where God exists. I'm not the first person to come up with this. I actually read someone else's thesis, where the end result is singularity, is the existence

of a supreme power over the universe. I think that makes a lot of sense. And the other, the flip side is if you postulate no God, then you have incoherent. You can't know anything. You can't even know that there is no God. Because it's just, the universe is just a blind concourse of atoms cascading down through history. And if I, if I took a bottle of Mountain Dew and a bottle of Dr. Pepper and I shook them up and they both were fizzing over, and I said, now, which one's winning the debate? You would say, well, they're not debating. They're just fizzing. But if there is no God, all our thoughts are are what these chemicals do at this

temperature and under this pressure. And I therefore have no reason to believe my thoughts to be true and therefore have no reason to believe my thoughts are composed of atoms. This predicts a God. Yeah. So let me, I try to explain it, listen, if if, if to the atheist and secular liberals out there who say we're just wet robots, your consciousness as a function in the code of the universe is inside of the universe. This means the universe has consciousness. Okay? So there's two things to stay there.

This predicts the existence of higher degrees of consciousness, which isn't necessarily God, but also that if you, like, are you familiar with Einsteinian God? This is simply that the universe may be God itself. God may be the logic and the code of the universe, the logos, whatever it may be. Christians, I believe,

I don't want to speak for you, but that we are in the image of God. God has a form of man of some sort. Yes. I believe that God is infinite, infinite and infinite, infinite, and we can only perceive a small component within what is possible in our minds. But imagine there is a computer that is programmed by a man, and this computer is capable of simulating a universe. In Grand Theft Auto, for instance, the people that walk around in this game and say things, are not singular and sold entities. They are actually the exact same as the brick wall next to them as far as the code is concerned. If you are a liberal, secular atheist who thinks

that we're just wet robots living within the universe, your consciousness is a piece of the universe. The universe has consciousness. So just start to explore that and take it to its logical conclusions. The expansion of life, as we know it, we don't, humans, we don't believe we're the end-all, be-all of consciousness and intelligence. So this suggests there is likely a higher degree. If you look below us from ants to microbes to dogs to squirrels, we can see varying degree of consciousness. There's no reason to believe that humans are the supreme form of consciousness or conscious entity. The universe has consciousness within it. We, as components of the universe, prove that the universe has consciousness, and there likely exists higher forms of consciousness than ours.

If we look at the scale of the fundamental particles as it scales up in physical reality into humans, this predicts it moves towards a singularity, a higher power, above all, and forms of order we can't comprehend infinity. So I'm oversimplifying it. Well, that's the thing about agnosticism is it is simple. We need someone to play the organ here. Yeah. But I will say this, and we'll get some more superchance in. everything I've stated, this is why I don't follow Christianity or believe in Christ or anything like that.

None of that predicts the resurrection of a Christ as what I'm describing. All I've done is, you know, I had a little bit of theology when I was in Catholic school, learned a bit about what they're saying, read science and quantum physics, read some philosophy, thought about it for a bit and I was like, now I'm not going to pretend to understand the universe, but certainly all of these pieces together, like a Sudoku puzzle, predict that there is a higher power, or at least the probability lies in the existence of a God. And then if you vape, I was going to say, and then you vaid DMT and, oh. Well, then I would want to say, and this God is a father.

And in Francis Schaefer's title of a book, he is there and he is not silent. So God is not closed off from us. He reveals himself. This is why I don't like being called a deist. People have said, oh, you don't follow Christianity, but you believe in God. So you're a deist. But deists believe that God does not intervene. I believe God intervenes.

And I'll say it in the example. same argument I made. If there is a higher form of consciousness and being beyond us, we are not the end-all-be-all of consciousness, then our motivations are simplistic relative to the higher form of consciousness, indicating there's going to be a degree of interaction from the higher forms of higher being or ultimate supreme being with the universe. That's like, I've been into Taoism lately. I think I've always been into Taoism for 20 years or so, and it's the flowing of nature, the way, the Dow means the way. And I think it's magnetism. I think they tapped into the magnetic flow of nature.

They just didn't know what magnetism was back then. And that's where I'm at spiritually is that. We are going over. I want to grab a couple of the super chats. I don't want to leave you guys hanging. So let's read this. RT says, start a new tradition. I'm currently making a baby while watching the show.

Oh, holler. Turn it up. Bro. You hear my voice, baby. Please stop cutting the camera to Ian. It's making this difficult. So remember, it'll get easier in the future. Keep watching.

So we have a tradition when, people's children are being born, they'll chat into the show and say, my child is being born right now, and we read the chat for them. And so, new tradition. They're going to make it. Sorry about that. Search, nice job. You know, it's pretty crazy.

I mean, someone with so many grandchildren and children certainly understands this, but one year ago, my wife was pregnant, and she had been pregnant for a few months. And so the baby has been here, despite her only being about six months old, she's been here much longer than this. She's kind of like 15 months old. As far as we are concerned. With the conversations we've had and the way we've acted, the baby has been here the moment my wife was working.

If the baby had a neural implant from conception, you would know that it was a living creature communicating with you from like two months. Ian, all you have to do is put your hand on the pregnant woman's belly and you will know. Well, you'll feel it moving. But once you have a conversation with it, you'll realize, oh, it doesn't start being alive at nine months. Yeah, you know that it's alive long before. And probably conscious, well before. A hundred percent.

It's reactive, absolutely. Let's grab one more. We got big lean. He says, for every illegal we find at your company, you find $1 million. Every illegal from your country we find increase the tariff on you by 0.1%. I will say this. If the illegal immigrant defrauded the employer, I don't blame the employer. If someone went to apply for a job and they had an ID and said, I am a citizen of this country and I'm legally allowed to work here, I don't blame the employer for that because there's limited, they're defrauding you, they're tricking you.

If the employer is proven to be complicit in the hiring of illegal immigrants, then 100% yes. But it is Friday night. So we're going to wrap up there, my friend, smash the like button, share the show with everyone you know. A lot of great stuff happening. We're working on a bunch of new projects. The culture war, of course, the live shows are all being planned. The next two shows currently being set up. Capitalism versus anti-capitalism and dating in the modern era.

A conversation about men, women in the workplace, and family. It's going to be a lot of fun. And the 13th, we're having another great game of skate event at the boonies. It's going to be fun to watch. Smash the like button. Follow me on X and Instagram at Timcast and subscribe to my new YouTube channel at Tim Poole, which may end up being random whatever content

that I feel like posting. Doug, do you want to shout anything out? You can find what I'm doing at Doug Wills.com. Pretty much everything I'm involved with, New St. Andrews College, Logos School, Cannon Press, can be found there. Great to meet you, man. Thanks for coming, dude.

That was awesome. Hey, maybe one day in the future we'll go deeper on theology. That was super neat. I met Ian Crosson. What's that? Great being. here. Oh, thanks, dude. If you guys can follow me at

Ian Crossland, it's a pleasure to be part of this. So thank you for coming. I'll see you later. I am Phil that Remains on Twix. The band is all the remains. You can check out the band on Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube and Deezer. Don't forget, the left lane is for crime. We'll see you all.

We might have some clips on the weekend. We definitely have clips throughout the weekend. Then we're back Monday, and we'll see you then. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.