Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 102 - Immigration: Fact Versus Fiction

Starting point is 00:00:00 Immigration, big topic, man, polarizing topic, pantheas topic research, rap one's mind around. Very important topic to discuss, very emotional and personal topic for many to listen to. Proud of this one, worked hard on it, hope it shows. Can the United States open her arms and just let anyone and everyone pour inside his borders and chase the American dream? Sure, I mean, I guess it could, but at what costs? How much difficulty would doing so add to those already here and chasing the dream of property ownership, access to healthcare and higher education, the possibility of a comfortable retirement? Based on 2016, US Census Bureau estimates over 43 million US residents were living in poverty.

Starting point is 00:00:40 18.5 million Americans were already living in deep poverty defined as having a household income below 50% of the poverty threshold. In the continental United States, the poverty threshold for a family of four was a household income of $24,300. So deep poverty would be almost 20 million Americans living in a household were less than 12k a year is made. That's the equivalent of someone working full time all year, but only getting paid $5 an hour, brutal. Los Angeles County had officially over 55,000 people classified as homeless in 2017.

Starting point is 00:01:15 55,000 homeless people in just one American County. And after living there for over six years, I believe it. If anything, it sounds low. Financial stability is very, very fragile for many Americans. American County. And after living there for over six years, I believe it. If anything, it sounds low. Financial stability is very, very fragile for many Americans. Federal reserve data reveals that the median value for the amount of money the average American has in savings is $5,200. Median here denoting there are an equal number of people who have less than this amount

Starting point is 00:01:38 as there are people who have more. The median amount of savings for someone under the age of 35, $1,580. Can we afford to let more people in? Some financial experts think things that I will be worse if we don't. How many industries are somewhat dependent on immigration, or frankly, illegal immigration? How many farms and orchards would go bankrupt without seasonal migrant labor? Some of which is illegal.

Starting point is 00:02:03 How many restaurants could go bankrupt without foreign illegal workers? How many construction companies seriously? What would be the economic ripple effect of deporting every single illegal immigrant? There are a lot of non-emotional economic factors to consider. There are moral implications. US was built on immigration, Lady Liberty calling the world. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. This excerpt from Emma Lazarus' poem, New Colossus, has become synonymous with the Statue

Starting point is 00:02:32 of Liberty and with immigration. Who are we, if we begin to deny the chance of freedom for the oppressed? Who are we, if we turn away immigrants, knowing that doing so seals in some cases, their death sentences? There are crime considerations, safety considerations, would opening the borders lead to higher violent crime rates in some states, extremely violent and well organized gangs are a real problem in Mexico and many other Latin American nations. Domestic terrorist attacks would almost certainly go up if no one was checking immigration

Starting point is 00:02:59 from nations like Syria. Also, I do realize very few people and no one on the national political stage are actually calling for the complete end to immigration or an end to scrutinizing exactly who gets in. There is the argument that the immigration debate is a misnomer. This national argument for most isn't about immigration, it's about illegal immigration. However, illegal immigration also built into America's foundation. It's always existed. Our economy has always partially dependent on it. Immigration, illegal immigration also built into America's foundation. It's always existed. Our economy has always partially dependent on it. Immigration, illegal immigration, how to handle it.

Starting point is 00:03:31 Such a complex ever-changing issue. And the first step at assessing how to handle an issue, especially complex and polarizing one such as this, is to learn as much about it as you can. I can tell you this. I know for certain that opening the borders to everyone or slamming the door firmly shut on everyone is not the answer. Extremism, rarely the answer. The solution usually lies somewhere in the middle, somewhere in the gray in between the black and the white. So let's learn all we can in roughly two hours about America's lengthy immigration history and its current challenges. And we're going to actually have some fun along the way.

Starting point is 00:04:05 We're going to get weird here and there and not let the seriousness of all this drag us down too far. So come on, meat sack. Saddle up. Dive down the rabbit hole with me today on Time Suck. Happy Monday time suckers, hail Nimrod, hail Lucifina, praise boat jangles and triple M. I'm Dan Cummins, aka Lucifina's man mistress. You are listening to time suck, dear member of the cult of the curious. Stay tuned until the end of this one.

Starting point is 00:04:44 Have a special edition of time sucker updates today where a variety of time suckers were able to share some very cool personal and varied perspectives regarding today's topic, making us think. Recording in the Idaho suck dungeon, so much smoke outside, so many forest fires, air quality index somewhere in the area of the manufacturing district of a Chinese industrial city. Good air quality index value anywhere from zero to 50, 101 to 150 unhealthy for people with lung disease or asthma and for seniors and young kids, 201 to 300, very unhealthy. We hit 380 the other day.

Starting point is 00:05:18 Actually, Joe told me over the course, right like the middle of the night, it was close to 400 the other day. Knocked Lindsay out for a few hours actually. She took this crazy long nap just to smoke God's word. I kind of like it. Actually, it hasn't bothered me that bad. I mean, every day you get plain air, you know, you get you fucking generic, clean air,

Starting point is 00:05:36 but you know, for us, it's like recently nature was like, hey, how about you try some new hickory smoked barbecue air? Huh? I like smoked meat. What do you think about smoked air? I'm looking forward to the ecological disaster that is gonna make some cool ranch air. I want some fucking natural cheese air.

Starting point is 00:05:53 Yeah. There it does make life a little bit interesting. Walking to the store feels like walking into mortar. Feels like it's a weird fucking hazy surrealness. Feels like it's Stephen King the missed But you know what the suck continues who cares my eyes a little more red than normal feeling good otherwise Feels like I started smoking again, but didn't have to actually purchase cigarettes this time Reverend doctor Joe motherfucking paisley smoking phasing him too much. He's running sound

Starting point is 00:06:21 Lindsay she's she's alive Kyler Monroe back from sleep. Camp Penny and Gigi, kind of being good girls. Recording this in advance of the Denver show, so I'm not sure how they went. Hopefully the suck on Sunday kicked ass. Chicago was great though. Seven shows at Zaini's and they were all fun, man. Even the third show on Saturday. Still don't want to do that again.

Starting point is 00:06:41 Ever, but it was fun. I was giving so many cool gifts in Chicago. You guys are, you spoil me, delicious treats, a stuffed bojangles toy. You can see a little picture of it on At Dan Cummins Comedy on Instagram. The debut pressing of the debut album from Sonny Falls, some time suckers who were also kick ass musicians.

Starting point is 00:06:57 Their album, some kind of specter came out. The boys in the band gave me an autographed album. It's fucking great in D-Rock, man. Super records did a great job with that vinyl. Fuck yeah. No shows this week just folks on the fan and on the suck, recharge and back at it in the Bay area next week.

Starting point is 00:07:13 Sunnyvale, California, been to Rooster Teeth Feathers many times a great intimate room for comedy, September 6th at 9th, Hidden Hollywood next. One of my favorite rooms in the country that Melrose Improv, a historic club, man. One night only September 12th. I have so much fun in that room

Starting point is 00:07:29 Just north of LA in Oxnard September 13th to 15th Lindsay gonna be with me in the California shows. Well should be with me in Oxnard and Melrose Not in rooster tees Hope to see some familiar faces. It's new ones too. on the problem, man, my most recent album dropping on vinyl, maybe dropped. I guess it's technically dropped. It's not out for everybody, but it is out. I'm very excited, man. The record looks so good. So excited to be on vinyl. I joke about hipsters, but in so many ways I am one. I'm a vinyl lover. My first ever vinyl pressings, Romana's records.

Starting point is 00:08:00 They did it. They did a great job. Comes out in just a few limited edition possibilities on September 15th. Noon Pacific Times 3 p.m. Eastern time. Looks so good. So excited to have that out. And actually, space lizards are able to order the record right now. Another space lizard perk early and exclusive access. Knowledge and Nimrod space lizards. Yeah, and you can see that on Instagram too. Add Denbs County. But yeah, the spacers get a special preorder link where they can lock it up today. And Labordale, Labordale, Labordale. Yeah, that's a fucking word. Labordale, sale.

Starting point is 00:08:34 You guys heard of Labordale? It's a place that exists in my head only. The Labordale sale hits the day. It's a big one. From now until September 3rd at noon, Pacific time, get 25% off and a free air freshener with every purchase, so you can not only feel the suck, you can fucking smell it! Hey, surprise everyone.

Starting point is 00:08:53 Reverend Dr. Joe Motherfucking Paisley popping into this episode. When Dan recorded this, he didn't know about the Labor Day sale promo code, such an idiot! I'll make sure you get that so you can take advantage of the deals. It's Labor Day sale promo code, such an idiot. I make sure you get that so you can take advantage of the deals. It's Labor Day 18.

Starting point is 00:09:09 All one word, all lowercase. I know you can't do lowercase numbers, but you get it. Labor Day 18. That's your promo code. Now, back to you, Mr. Suck Master, Suck! Suck! It'll be the last chance to grab a few items

Starting point is 00:09:24 like the original Danger Brain Colt and Curious. Sure with my face, last chance to grab a few items like the original danger brain, cold to the Curious shirt with my face, last chance for the green, lizard pullover hoodie, just got a few of those left, last chance for the summer tank tops, making way in the store for some really cool shit coming this fall. So proud of the merch we're putting out now, man, I'm biased, but I think we're creating some of the best shit in the whole podcast game. So thanks for wearing that stuff to the show. Thanks for supporting the show by getting it.

Starting point is 00:09:43 So proud, man. Thanks for wearing it out in the world and helping to spread the suck. So yeah, so thanks for wearing that stuff to the show. Thanks for supporting the show by getting it. So proud, man. Thanks for wearing it out in the world and helping to spread the suck. So yeah, so be sure, I mean, you're not gonna get a better deal on our stuff. 25% off of everything in the store. Fuck, get it. And now let's dig into a suck where I learned so much.

Starting point is 00:09:58 I knew almost nothing about America's immigration past before this past few weeks. I mean, you know the basics. I knew that we're a nation founded by immigrants, but I didn't really know the details. I know so much now. It feels good. Feels like my brain's a little bigger,

Starting point is 00:10:11 feels like it's been doing some workouts, you know, beefed up, stuck in a settle documentary, pump an iron, swarves a nigger. It's been pumping something. So let's go over everything I dug up, suck the shit out of the history and the current confusion, surrounding immigration in America. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO is I bounced through a preposterous amount of articles and government websites researching today's show. Yeah, if you look at the show notes ever on the app, this is the biggest amount

Starting point is 00:10:51 of show notes by far. I mean, there is, I feel like three pages of single spaced links. I think I went through about, I don't know, 80 to 120 different sites that I actually used information from. Yeah, but I think that as we judge history, history, or judge us is important to keep in mind as we go through today's suck.

Starting point is 00:11:13 One of the most interesting sucks I've sucked on for sure, how will history judges for how we're handling our current immigration crisis? Well, before we assess the current situation, let's get some context like we often do. Let's dig way back to the start with today's TimeSuck timeline. We're marching down a TimeSuck timeline. Let's truly start at the beginning, Way before Columbus, 30,000 BCE. If you'll recall from the timeline we did in the Aztecs,

Starting point is 00:11:48 suck that is when the first humans are thought to have crossed that frozen land bridge connecting present-day Siberia to present-day Alaska via the Bering Strait. We don't know a lot about these early Americans, these first Americans, other than that their lives were very likely, utterly terrible and devoid of much joy. I mean, I mean, their lives were at least comparatively super,

Starting point is 00:12:10 super shitty compared to the lives of everyone listening to this podcast right now, like for sure. They had no concept of medical treatment. They lived in the cold, unforgiving wasteland of the the Barrier Street area, before North Face Jackets and thermal underwear were invented. I mean, sure, sometimes I got to club the shit out of a seal and enjoy some tasty, tasty seal meat. I'm sure that was pretty fun and delicious. But they also probably got eaten by bears a lot, which I'm guessing not fun at all. They probably also died as shit like a broken leg that turned into an infection or a bad

Starting point is 00:12:40 ingrown toenail that could kill you back then. So many not fun things happening back then. Where did they live there? Why would you live in Alaska? Back when you could live near present day San Diego instead. Well, probably because they couldn't read or write and they didn't have maps or the ability to communicate over any kind of distance.

Starting point is 00:12:55 And I'm guessing they didn't know that any other place in the world wasn't as terrible as Siberia nor the Alaska. Showing them a photo of a sunny beach and palm trees like showing them a photo of the surface of Mars. They wouldn't even know how to mentally process it. And then they'd probably kill you for being an obvious witch with your witch photo, using your black magic to create a thin window into another world.

Starting point is 00:13:16 Over the next 15 to 20,000 years, these ancient people, these descendants of American Indians, wandered into various portions of the present day, continental United States. Finally, little bit of decent weather, little bit less polar bears, no polar bears. And where do these ancient Siberians come from? Well, most anthropologists and archaeologists still think that all humans come from Africa. If you head back far enough, evolving from other human-ish mammal species, roughly 260,000 years ago, where all Africans meet sacks, don't,000 years ago. We're all Africans, meat, sacks. Don't you fucking forget it.

Starting point is 00:13:47 It's one of the many reasons racism just doesn't make any sense. We all sprang forth from the same cradle of civilization, you know, had the same, you know, grandpapies and nannis. Some of us just lost a little more pigment over the years than others. Anyway, around 13,000 years ago, the ice bridge connecting Siberia, North America closed,

Starting point is 00:14:04 and ice bridge that may have actually also been a land bridge due to lower sea levels at the time. The ice melted to sea level rose. No one else came over to mix up the American gene pool for thousands of years. For centuries, various cultures and kingdoms rose and fell back in Asia, Africa, and Europe. And finally, one of those European cultures made contact with North America, and I'm not talking about Columbus. Virtually all scholars now accept

Starting point is 00:14:26 that long before Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492, several groups of Vikings made it to North America first. Leif Ericsson, son of Erick the Red, founder of the first European settlement, on what is now called Greenland, was one of those Vikings. Around 1000 CE Ericsson sailed to Norway were King Olaf the First.

Starting point is 00:14:44 Olaf, man, it's hard to find a more Scandinavia name than that. Olaf! Around 1000 CE Ericsson sailed in Norway were King Olaf the first Olaf man You know it's hard to find a more Scandinavian name than that all off Would you like Olaf would you like some lingenberries? Yes, yes, I would Helga I would like lingenberries and some smoke salmon perhaps of course Olaf All of the first converted him to Christianity Man, I, I'm missing my great grandparents right now. My, my Swedish Norwegian great grandparents. I, I loved it as a kid when they would talk in their fucking sing songy language around the house.

Starting point is 00:15:13 Bing, ba dong, tih, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, I'm by done to turn to Lingon Bayer to turn to Anyway, Erics. I know we have a lot of Swedish timeslagers randomly. I hope that was fun and not just incredibly patronizing. Teng, Teng, Teng, Teng, Teng.

Starting point is 00:15:34 Teng, Teng, Teng, Teng, Teng. I feel like I'm able to do that because of family. I feel like I have a legit agency to build to that. Okay. King Olaf first converted him to Christianity, then according to an increasingly popular school of thought, Erickson sailed off course on his way back to Greenland, landed on the North American continent,

Starting point is 00:15:52 where he explored a region called Vinland. The Vikings called it Vinland or Wineland because it was full of grapes, something they just didn't have back in Greenland. They didn't have much back in Greenland. Greenland is definitely a misnomer. Greenland, not that green, not that green, mostly ice and rock. Leaf May have also sought out mainland based on stories

Starting point is 00:16:09 of an earlier voyage by another Icelandic trader. After spending the winter in mainland, Leaf apparently wasn't overly impressed. sailed back to Greenland, never returned to North American shores. And there's obviously a lot more to that story. Other Vikings, you know, later made it to present a new mainland based on archaeological evidence, but the tangent is too complex to dive in down today. We'll save that for a proper Viking suck someday. It doesn't seem that these early Vikings really mixed much with the American Indians. They may have met and seemed to have spread too much into the, or any, at all, DNA into the gene pool, their brief North American presence.

Starting point is 00:16:39 Definitely didn't lead to the formation of the United States that we're talking about today. The date that would lead directly to the mass migration of Europeans into the Americas, the date that would lead to the first big wave of American immigrants, that would eventually lead to the formation of the United States was, of course, October 12, 1492. On this date, the Italian explorer Christopher Columbus, sailing on behalf of the Spanish crown, reaches land of the Bahamas, later that month inside Cuba thinking it was China. In the summer, he'd see hispanola thinking it might be Japan.

Starting point is 00:17:08 He'd established a small colony with 39 men and then returned to Spain with gold, spices, and captives in 1493. In 1497, another Italian, Giovanni Cabuto, aka John Cavitt, sail on behalf of the English crown, would touch down somewhere in Eastern Canada on June 24th, beginning to search for the fabled Northwest Passage to Asia. In 1513, Spanish explorer and conquistadora, Juan Ponce de Leon, arrives in present-day Florida. He's a dude who actually named the area La Florida.

Starting point is 00:17:41 In 1514, the king of Spain authorizes Ponce de Leon to settle Florida and claim it for Spain. He returns and attempts to do just that in 1514, the king of Spain authorizes Ponos de Leon to settle Florida and claim it for Spain. It returns an attempt to do just that in 1521. But the indigenous collusive people are not into it. They're like, how about instead of giving this land to Spain, whatever the hell that is, how about fuck that and fuck you assholes? And these American Indians beat him and his troops back to hell off of the continent. Despite this

Starting point is 00:18:04 initial ass whooping, several other Spanish explorers soon follow, such as Hernando de Soto, and they don't get the racist beat, and they push into present day, Northern Florida, and elsewhere in the Southeast or the United States. As we learn in that Aztecs suck, other explorers also enter in present day Mexico at this time, in 1519, Hernán Cortez, first encounter as the Aztecs, defeating them by 15, 21, paving the way for future spanners to push up into present day Texas. Get up into that Texas, get up into that New Mexico, get up into that Arizona, California and more. Can key stores, man, Spanish for conqueror.

Starting point is 00:18:37 They took that title seriously. They conquered the shit out of America for a long, long time. A couple of historical events, you know, what we've got in the other way. We'd always speak in Spanish as the first language today here in the States. 1526 Spanish explorer Lucas Vazquez de Ion established San Miguel de Guadalupe, the first European settlement and what would become the continental United States somewhere along the coast of Georgia. Never heard of this before this sucks research. This is way before the pilgrims. The exact location of this settlement, unfortunately, has been lost to history

Starting point is 00:19:09 because it didn't last for a long. About two thirds of the original 600 settlers died of disease and starvation in the first winter, including a young himself. And the remaining third, not possessing supplies are the means to defend themselves from angry local tribes, sailed back to hispaniola in the spring of 1547.

Starting point is 00:19:26 So ill-fated settlement. 1540, another Spanish conquistador, Francisco Vasquez de Coronado, began the first European to see the Grand Canyon and the Colorado River. He and his crew pushed all the way into present day Oklahoma and Kansas, fucking Spaniards and Kansas back in 1540. Who knew? I didn't, I didn't remember that. On June 22nd, 1564, the French established a colony for the Huguenots or French Calvinists

Starting point is 00:19:53 called Fort Caroline on the St. John's River in your present day Jacksonville, Florida, early religious pilgrims wanting to live life on their own, probably very morally strict. Probably everyone is required to wear silly weird hats to please an angry god. Not fun at all terms. Ah man, I would have never lasted one of those settlements. This was the first settlement of men and women seeking religious freedom in the New World. Settlement also served another purpose. It was a new territorial claim for the French crown.

Starting point is 00:20:20 But again, didn't last long. Spaniard, Saxo, Fort, claimed it for themselves the following year in September of 1565. Fucking Spaniards! Always sack and shit. SAC and Aztecs. SAC and Hugin' Not So Much Spanish. SAC! God, there was a lot of SAC back then.

Starting point is 00:20:38 They loved it. The Spaniard slaughter, the several hundred religious pilgrims live in there, that irritated France. France didn't care for that. So in 1568, a French force slaughtered the several hundred religious pilgrims live in there that irritated France. France didn't care for that So in 1568 a French force slaughtered the Spanish that had taken over the fort and sailed away Sailing Take me away Away from all this second stuff

Starting point is 00:21:06 Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- the Spaniards, they came back and rebuilt the fort after slaughter, but then abandoned at the following year, almost a hundred years after Columbus and Cabot, the British established their first colony in the present day United States, colony of Roanoke, another future suck topic, founded in 1585 off the coast of North Carolina on Roanoke Island, lack of supplies and bad relations with local American Indians causes some members of the new colony to return to England for supplies in 1587. And when they return in 1590, the colony of a little over 100 people had totally vanished. Nobody's ever discovered historians still trying

Starting point is 00:21:35 to figure out what happened to them. One interesting theory is that they fell prey to a particularly bad outbreak of an especially aggressive and poisonous variety of brown recluse spiders. Those things have always creeped me out, native to that island. The Roanoke recluse has since gone extinct due to ecosystem changes that started

Starting point is 00:21:52 with non-native snakes made their way into the island in the early 1700s, but these spiders witnessed by the colonists who returned to England were roughly twice as big as a normal brown recluse, as big as the palm of your hand. And in forcing for the colonists, who could have known this far more venomous venomous, venomous, the bite was almost always lethal. And it's thought that hundreds of thousands of these spiders may have hatched either 1588

Starting point is 00:22:16 or 1589, and that the colonists driven mad by a fever brought on by the spiders venom, then drowned in the ocean, drowned in the island, deliriously trying to out swim the large swarms of highly aggressive spiders. The Ronoic recluse was known to go for the eyes, ears, and mouth because a bite in that area would send the poison straight into your brain. When one spider bit you, it would release a chemical compound that would attract other spiders. The spiders would then swarm on you and you'd end up covered in hundreds, if not thousands of these things,

Starting point is 00:22:47 crawling into your mouth, crawling all over your eyes as you screamed your dying breaths, just all over your face. They would just say, sometimes one spider would hold open your eyelid and allow other spiders to crawl into your eyeballs. And, and of course that is nonsense.

Starting point is 00:23:03 How would we fucking know that? How would we know about some mystery spider that died a long time ago on an island that no one successfully lived on before they went extinct? I only said that because I'm a six son of a bitch. And I know that a lot of people are very, very creeped out by spiders. And I wanted you to imagine those early colonists

Starting point is 00:23:21 living your worst nightmare, trapped on a terrifying spider island. Do you feel it right now? I mean, on a terrifying spider island. Do you feel it right now? I mean, some of you have to. Do you feel them crawling on your skin? I mean, think about this, just because I was kidding about an island of spiders, doesn't mean that there isn't one spider or several spiders on you right now. You don't know. Okay, back to real stuff. By 1600, Spain and Portugal are still the only significant colonial powers in the new world a settlement in St. Augustine, Florida established in 1565 The only permanent settlement in what is now the continental US St. Augustine by the way the oldest continuously occupied European

Starting point is 00:23:54 established settlement within the borders of the continental US 1604 the French briefly settled in present-day Maine on St. Croix Island before relocating to Port Royal, Nova Scotia. I guess pray Port Royal. I'll probably throw a little, a little, a little penational fanciness unnecessarily on that word. In 1607, the Spaniards established a permanent settlement in present-day Santa Fe, New Mexico. And there have been people of European descent, live in Santa Fe ever since. Also in 1607, the first enduring English settlement was established in the present a us James town on the coast of present day Virginia Just two and a half miles southwest of the center of present day Williamsburg 104 men and boys built a fort there. It will be the capital of Virginia from 1616 until 1699 women soon followed

Starting point is 00:24:38 In 1609 almost everyone died of either starvation or disease To afraid to leave the fort due to poor relations with nearby tribes, but the fort endured. That sucks. More settlers soon followed over the coming years like the pilgrims. The pilgrims set their anchor near that famous Boulder, Plymouth Rock. Province Town Harbor, outside of current day Massachusetts

Starting point is 00:24:56 on November 11, 1620. The Mayflower left England with 102 passengers and a crew of 25 to 30 men. These pilgrims were fleeing religious persecution in England only to ironically carry out more religious persecution themselves a short time later. If you'll recall that from the Salem, which trial suck. The Dutch, well, I mean the descendants of the pilgrims to death. The Dutch established the colony of New Netherlands in 1624. It would encompass all the present day New York City parts of Long

Starting point is 00:25:22 Island Connecticut, parts of Long Island, Paws, Connecticut, and New Jersey. By 1626, the settlement of New Amsterdam would be established on the southern tip of Manhattan Island, where colonists purchased the land from the local Algonquin tribe. In 1633, the Dutch established Fort Good Hope, which should become present day heart for Connecticut, 1638, the realm of Sweden also began to colonize present day United States don't they don't they don't they don't they don't they don't they make them some problems uh the established uh sweetsboro in present day uh sweet bro in Sweden is pronounced that's a taste I had to pray to have it a sleep last night I'm feeling a little loopy in a fun way in present but the established sweet

Starting point is 00:26:04 bro in present day New Jersey in 1638, all the Sweden's North American territory would fall into the hands of the Dutch during the second Northern war less than two decades later by 1702. 10 of the original 13 colonies that would later become states had been formally chartered and established by Britain. Georgia became the 13th colony in 1752. New Orleans as we learned a few weeks ago in the drunken mess. That was fun.

Starting point is 00:26:26 Don't know is the Hacksman and Suck was founded by the French. Yeah, 1718 on July 4th, 1776, the Declaration of Independence is signed with the leaders of the American colonies declaring independence from England and then high five in the shit out of each other. Lot of risk broken that day and it and it pennies hall in Philadelphia. We did it, bros. Bros, we did it. United States is born The Treaty of Paris signed on September 3rd

Starting point is 00:26:50 1783 marked the end of the American Revolutionary War Britain now recognizing America's independence and territorial claims That extended to the Mississippi River in the West in present-day Canadian border in the North the United States just now Internationally recognizes being alive there alive it lives just twenty years later in eight to know three the brand spanking new shiny new car smell united states would virtually double in size with leesiana purchase

Starting point is 00:27:15 that purchase contain land that now forms arcons on the three i will ocula home uh... can this the braska hawaii uh... no doesn't uh... parts of Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Puerto Rico. Nope. Texas, New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, and of course Louisiana. And in the first decades, the United States history, everyone who wanted to come live in the United States could do so. Kind of asterisk. Everyone who was white could do so. Late and 18th century United States, very, very good time and place to be a white dude a lot of advantages Not a good time in North America historically to be anything other than a white dude a straight white dude a straight Christian white dude great time to be a straight

Starting point is 00:27:52 Christian white dude Naturalization act passed in 1790 stipulated that any alien being a free white person may be admitted to become a citizen of United States Calling all white people calling all white people all white people, get your new country, get your new country. This law limited naturalization to immigrants who were free white persons, a good character in order to address ones good character. The law required two years of residence in the United States, one year in the state of residence prior to applying for citizenship. When those requirements were met, an immigrant could file a petition for naturalization with any common law court of record, having

Starting point is 00:28:28 jurisdiction over his residence. Once convinced of the applicant's good moral character, do you believe in Christ, us, have you? Are you white? Yes. Citizen. The court would administer a note of allegiance to support the Constitution of the United States. The clerk of the court, uh, was to make a record of these proceedings and they're upon such person shall be considered as a citizen of the United States. The law excluded American Indians and dentured servants slaves free blacks and later it would be interpreted to block citizenship, uh, status for anybody of Asian descent. Man, for a time, uh, free blacks were allowed citizenship at the state level in certain states and then that was revoked.

Starting point is 00:29:06 How fucked up is the exclusion of American and Jesus Christ? They just had their land taken from them, and then the nation that just took their land won't even let them join the new nation in any kind of legal, equal way. Man, just insult upon insult. Just constant salt being poured into a never healing wound. In the early years of the Republic, white immigration was light and a non-issue. 6,000 people a year on average, you know, it wasn't a lot of people back then,

Starting point is 00:29:29 including French refugees from the revolt and Haiti, coming into a new country that needed new bodies, you know, to settle this land, some new white bodies, not trying to go white guilt social justice war, you're here by the way either. Some people get so sensitive to that, they get triggered by that kind of talk,

Starting point is 00:29:43 but you know what the fucking history is? What it is? It's the truth is what it is. By 1806, the flow of immigration was reduced to a trickle as hostilities between England and Napoleon's France, just ruptured Atlantic shipping lanes. The war of 1812, between the United States and Britain slowed immigration even further.

Starting point is 00:29:59 And with peace reestablished in 1814, immigration from Great Britain, Ireland and Western Europe resumed and kicked into high gear. The major port cities of this era, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Charleston, overwhelmed with newcomers, many of them sick or dying from the long journey across the Atlantic. Man, think about the journey those early immigrants made. To make it from England to America in the early 19th century, it generally took anywhere from six weeks to two months.

Starting point is 00:30:24 I get bad most of the sick, most in sections on boats, man. I think I would have just stayed in Europe just took my chances there. Yeah, the journey was terrible. Gottlieb Mittelberger, a German schoolmaster and possessor of the most Germany sound in German name ever traveled from Europe to Philadelphia in the mid 1700s.

Starting point is 00:30:42 Gottlieb Mittelberger, Gottlieb, middle burger. Gottlieb, middle burger. Gottlieb, middle burger. You're sausage-y-weights, you, Mr. middle burger, Gottlieb. His diary left a few vivid eyewitness accounts of the atrocious conditions this journey. Check this out. This is his, this is Gottlieb, middle burgers.

Starting point is 00:31:00 This is his words. I don't know why I'm still doing Swedish. I can't seem to transition from a Swedish to a German accent there. During the voyage, there is on board these ships terrible misery. Stinch fumes, horror, vomiting, many kinds of sea sickness, fever, dysentery, headache, heat, constipation. This is all his words. Boils, scurvy, cancer, mouth rot, and the like, all of which come from the old and sharply salted food, who sharply salted and meat also from bad and foul water, so that many die miserably.

Starting point is 00:31:36 Imagine if that was part of the travel brochure. Looking for a new adventure? Travel to America on sailboat, willies, transit, Lanantic, schooner, the living hell on the sea. Passengers aboard the living hell on the sea have a 50, 50 chance of making it to their destination alive. And a hundred percent chance of being severely psychologically scarred

Starting point is 00:31:54 for the rest of their statistically short and miserable lives after witnessing unimaginable and daily horrors for months. An old guy like we just getting started, man. He continues with add to this want of provisions hunger thirst frost heat dampness anxiety want afflictions and lamentations together with other trouble. As for example the lights abound so frightfully especially on sick people that they can be scraped off the body. The misery reaches a climax when a gale rages for two or three days and nights so that everyone believes the ship will go to the bottom with all human

Starting point is 00:32:29 beings on board. In such a visitation that people cry and pray most pitigiously. Fuck! And brochure again, next page is brochure. Do you like hundreds of thousands of lice? Do you enjoy the sounds of constant whales of despair and death rattles? Well, hop on board the living hell on the sea. Guaranteed to make you strongly reconsider leaving Europe no matter how terrible your life already is. Now back to Gottlieb, one last time he says, no one can have an idea of the sufferings which women in confinement have to bear

Starting point is 00:32:59 with their innocent children on board these ships. Few of this class escape with their lives. Many, many a mother is cast into the water with her child as soon as she is dead. Jesus, one day, just as we had a heavy gale, a woman in our ship who was to give birth and could not give birth under the circumstances was pushed through a loophole, a portal into the sea, uh, no, in the sea and dropped into the sea because she was far in the rear of the ship and could not be brought forward.

Starting point is 00:33:27 Fucking, don't shit. Just pushing pregnant women and they're unable to be born babies just down a portal in the David Jones locker. For sure, this boat would have gotten a one star review had Yelp existed. Did not appreciate constant death and despair, disappointed to lose several family members on journey, meet way too salty, sharply salted, fruit, non-existent, frustrated with amount of lice, would not recommend one star. At least they didn't have to deal with those damn grown-up spiders.

Starting point is 00:33:57 Gah! Spiders calling your eyeballs. How many of you are still okay with anything about that? How many of you were able to stop thinking about the spiders? And then now are very angry to be again thinking about the many, many spiders that would like to live. Remember how they would lift up your eyelid and let another spider crawl on your under eyeball? Ugh. God, that's terrible. Anyway, Congress responded to these terrible travel conditions with the steerage act of 1819 requiring ship captains to keep detailed past and your

Starting point is 00:34:23 records and provide more human conditions for those on board. Between 1820 and 1880, immigration exploded with hundreds of thousands of immigrants finding work via the Industrial Revolution on the East Coast, the construction of the Transcontinental Railroad, and the California Gold Rush. Immigrants from both Asia and Europe poured into the country. In that 60 year period, roughly 3 million people emigrated from the German Empire, roughly 2.8 million, came over from Ireland. Another 2 million came from Britain, million from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, 750,000 from

Starting point is 00:34:52 Canada, 230,000 from China, and another 50,000 from Africa as the slave trade wound down. The Asian immigrants were allowed to come into the country and work, but not allowed to become citizens. While there were some anti-immigration voices during this period overall, generally, voice during brief economic downturns in general America was actually very pro-immigration until the 1880s. The Republican platform of 1864 actually stated foreign immigration, which is in the past has added so much to the wealth resources and increased power to the nation should be fostered and encouraged. And there were some voices of dissent, there were some, you know, like some during the potato famine and

Starting point is 00:35:28 I have listened to some very like anti-Iarish kind of political voices, but nothing that made it to the way to legislation. After certain states passed, immigration laws following the devastation of the Civil War, the Supreme Court in 1875 declared regulation of immigration of federal responsibility by the 1880 steam power had shortened the journey to America dramatically. Immigrants poured in from around the world from the Middle East, the Mediterranean, Southern and Eastern Europe, down from Canada. In the 1880s alone, 99% of the total population of Norway immigrated to America. That is nuts. Can you imagine if in one decade one out of every 10 people in your school or

Starting point is 00:36:06 Neighborhood or town just bounce to other country? Can you imagine just being on those boats? Everything we've already talked about plus just the con just a concoction of this Do you want some smoked hearing in some linden bear? I got to think of more references besides linden bearian fish hearing I think of more references besides Lincoln, Barry, and Fish. Smoke salmon and hearing, ting to ting, ting, ting. Okay, I'm done now. The Naturalization Act of 1870, now that we've lost all of our Scandinavian listeners, the Naturalization Act of 1870 intended to provide citizenship to recently freed slaves, also added to anti-Asian immigration policies.

Starting point is 00:36:39 It limited naturalization to aliens of African nativity and the persons of African descent, whites, thus excluding all Asians from receiving citizenship, the anti-Asian vibe will intensify greatly over the next few decades. The page act is passed in 1875, the first restrictive federal immigration law, the law prohibited the entry of immigrants considered, quote, undesirable, and here we go! Here we begin to get into the history that leads to a modern immigration concerns. Legal discrimination towards a certain immigrants truly begins racial discriminatory laws regarding citizenship already existed. But this is the first time the US starts to legislate against certain groups being allowed to even enter the US. Prior to 1875,

Starting point is 00:37:21 obviously a lot of racism, slavery had been abolished only a decade before. There was for sure racism towards different immigrant groups coming into the country, but prior to 1875, the government wasn't stepping into actually legally ban entry to certain races of people. The new law classified as undesirable, any individual from Asia. Fuck. Most of us that just later thrown undesirable on anybody from Asia, fuck. What is that? Just lapestrown undesirable on anybody from Asia. Anybody from Asia coming to be a forced labor

Starting point is 00:37:48 or any Asian woman who might engage in prostitution, anyone considered to be a convict in their own country, speaking of prostitution, time suck, resident pimpology expert, chicken Joe just walked in, and would like to share his thoughts on this legal discrimination. Maba, preboah, mabah. Tahao don't care about what shayda's skinny, do you feel this? Mabah.

Starting point is 00:38:09 Little lady kind of play, she dig a husband's dig a wife, dig a team, she live a life. Everybody not needs no matter what like ribs or rice, play nice pleboah. Play nah, bah bah. That was chicken Joe speak for race shouldn't matter when it comes to marriage or prostitution. Love and sexual needs aren't exclusive to any ethnicity. Thank you very much, chicken Joe. M-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m age and prostitution language. You know, it was a not so subtle way of preventing recently immigrated Chinese men from bringing over their wives, which also prevented them from bringing over their families, you know, because any woman theoretically might engage in prostitution.

Starting point is 00:38:53 In 1882, the United States furthered its policy of racially based immigration legislation when President Chester A. Arthur signed the Chinese Exclusion Act. It's pretty straightforward. Chinese Exclusion Act, fuck, in the law on May 6th. This act was initially intended to last for only 10 years, but it was renewed in 1892 with the Geary Act signed into permanent law in 1902. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the first law implemented to prevent a specific ethnic group from immigrating to the United States.

Starting point is 00:39:20 Past after the immigration of 123,000 Chinese in the 1870s, who joined the 105,000, who had immigrated between 1850 and 1870. The reason this law passed largely economic during the gold rush of 1848 to 1855 in the West Coast and the subsequent massive railroad projects that accompanied the gold rush across America. There was more than enough work to go around for everybody. But then due to the combination of more and more workers arrived into California in 1860s and 1870s, less and less gold being found, the railroads being built, animosity towards

Starting point is 00:39:55 foreigners increases and the Chinese becoming easy targets. Because there was also a lot of people born in the US from places like Ireland, but those people at least were familiar to other Americans, many of whom were had Irish ancestry or similar ancestry than the Chinese. There was the immigration act of 1891, while the immigration act of 1882 regulated coastal borders. It did not regulate the contingent borders and immigrants crossing either the US Canadian or US Mexican border entered

Starting point is 00:40:25 the nation largely without inspection. Reports estimated that in six months before the passage of the immigration act of 1891 as many as 50,000 immigrants entered the US from Canada without inspection. I can sneak into Canadians with the immigration act of 1891. Congress began tightening regulation of the US Mexican and US mexican and us can't even borders eighteen ninety one act also extended the federal federal government's power to uh... deport immigrants beyond chinese workers and contract labor the act listed all the existing categories of exclude or added to all the to existing categories

Starting point is 00:40:58 uh... of excludable immigrants check out this list idiots the insane poppers and polygamists persons liable to become a public charge, people convicted of a felony or other crime or misdemeanor involving moral turpitude, suffers from a loatham or dangerous contagious disease. This act connected each of these excludable categories with a deportation provision so that all these categories were now both excludable and deportable.

Starting point is 00:41:22 The Office of Immigration is established in this act. The new executive or bureaucratic office would comprise three clerks, a superintendent appointed by the president, who all worked under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of the Treasury by 1894. This federal bureaucracy had become the bureau of immigration. Then there was the gentleman's agreement of 1907 with the Empire of Japan. In 1906, the San Francisco, California Board of Education passed a regulation whereby children of Japanese descent would

Starting point is 00:41:50 be required to attend separate racially specific schools. And this did not sit well with the prideful government of Japan. They didn't appreciate their people being discriminated against so they made an informal agreement with the US. The Japanese agreed to no longer give passports to Japanese citizens looking to move to the United States and exchange for the US, not legally discriminating against Japanese already living in the United States, including letting them attend the same schools as everyone else. Real, real gentlemanly. This strange agreement actually led to a massive immigration influx to Hawaii.

Starting point is 00:42:24 Hawaii to this day, largely still influenced by Japanese culture. The Japanese government continued to issue passports to its citizens to move to Hawaii, then just a territory of the U.S. and then from Hawaii, easy for immigrants to bounce on over to the mainland. I can loophole. Uh, outside of blatantly racist anti-Asian immigration policies, immigrants continued to pour into the US Mexicans fleeing various revolutions pouring to Texas and the American Southwest European Jews flee

Starting point is 00:42:51 pogroms and Pagrums, I think it's that we're not always fucks with me. I always want to say pogrom But pogroms in Eastern Europe and Russia. It's just What it means we've talked about before in various other set episodes, is just, you know, basically like purges of Jewish communities in Europe, racially and religious, you know, motivated purges. There's Armenians escaping massacres in Turkey, etc. New York City in particular became an elaborate melting pot with various neighborhoods

Starting point is 00:43:20 representing various nations. Then World War I broke out, attitude shifted again about who should be led into America with the immigration act of 1917. This act also known as the literacy act. And as the Azeatic Barred Zone act was the most sweeping immigration act that the United States had passed up until that point. Literacy had been proposed as a prerequisite for citizenship for a few decades, but no legislation passed until 1917. This act added substantially to the list of the 1875 Page Acts, quote, undesirables, banned from any of the country. This group now included alcoholics, anarchists, contract laborers, criminals and convicts,

Starting point is 00:43:59 epileptics, feeble-minded persons, idiots, illiterates, imbosols, insane persons, poppers, I can popper, I can get out, popper. Persons afflicted with contagious diseases. Persons being mentally or physically defective. Persons with constitutional psychopathic inferiority, okay? Political radicals, polygamous, prostitutes, and vagrants, sweet Jesus. Where did it begin with this shit?

Starting point is 00:44:24 Really, there's a lot of room for interpretation, doesn't it? Criminals and convicts, that's pretty straightforward. So is persons afflicted with contagious diseases, but anarchists? How does that come up on an immigration form? Okay, you're almost in sunny boy. I want more question.

Starting point is 00:44:38 Would you like to destroy the government? And I'll show you in a new era of complete lawlessness with the government protects no one. And it's every man for themselves No police no public schools no infrastructure development or maintenance of any kind just you know complete and total energy Yes, I would like to destroy government. I anarchist Oh, that's not so good son. I'm afraid it says right here. No anarchists really That's such a bomb on it and they'll get the top

Starting point is 00:45:06 of the American government. Freight not buddy, ol' Powell, back to Russia, Mr. Bolshevik. Prostitute pretty straightforward, although if you don't have an arrest record already, like placing you in the criminals and convicts category, I don't know why you would ever offer that information up to an immigration official. So young lady, what are you hoping to do for work here in the United States? Dicks? I was helping that suck a lot of dicks for money.

Starting point is 00:45:31 Oh, well about that. No, no prostitutes. Sorry, back to Europe you go. Bobbock is your own judgment player. Well, God knows solely on all the spoilers. Neat. Bobbock. Having the three separate categories of it yet and feeble minded person is interesting.

Starting point is 00:45:47 To me, uh, obvious who they were targeting here. I just, just say it. You don't want more Polish immigrants. You're tired of those, you know, morally defunct monsters, sneaking in and scaring the children. God, it's so much easier to say things about Polish people and my wife isn't sitting next to me. Seriously though, we're to throw in all three of those terms, right? Like, should we let him in? He's not

Starting point is 00:46:10 feeble minded and he's not really an imbecile. True, but he does seem like an idiot. Persons with constitutional psychopathic inferiority. That one in vagrant seemed to me like ways to just throw anyone in immigration official just doesn't like out of the country. The first term was actually a popular psychiatric term of the day created by German psychiatrist Julius Ladwig, Ladwig, August Cook, and is kind of a long form version of psychopath. Kind of. It meant someone with a natural criminal inclination, but wouldn't they already be barred on their criminals and convicts?

Starting point is 00:46:42 After I dug further on it, it meant anyone to be homosexual orientation Homosexual sexual activity being technically still illegal. So you know anyone who admits openly to being homosexual not welcome This is only a hundred years ago the homosexuals legally banned from becoming citizens Vagrant defined as a person without a settled home who wanders from place to place without study where Quebec's This one also, I don't know, it seems like probably like racist or me, or maybe they were targeting like the Romani people, AKA the Roma people,

Starting point is 00:47:13 AKA gypsies who are nomadic people originating in northern India who've been rowing around Europe for centuries. In addition to banning the list of people, I just mentioned this new 1917 act banned anyone over the age of 16 who was a literate. Literacy in this instance defined as the ability to read 30 to 40 words of their own language from an ordinary text. And then in another example of like blatant racism towards Asians, there was that whole azeatic barred zone language. And that blocked certain countries, or people from certain countries to immigrate in the U.S. Basically, it barred

Starting point is 00:47:44 anyone from the South Pacific Islands such as indonesia pop and new guinea etc. Everything except for the Philippines. Also banned entry to anyone from Korea via nom, lous, etc. Barred anybody from india, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. banned anyone from any place in the middle east and turkey. Not just going after the Chinese and Japanese anymore. They were like no more, no more Asians in general.

Starting point is 00:48:04 No more Asian-e people. No more Asian-e people. No more Asian-ish humans. There was a tremendous amount of anti-Asian sentiment in America, particularly in the American West, where there were the overwhelming majority of Asians immigrated to in the early 20th century. There was a Pacific coast race riots of 1907 and cities from LA to the West Coast, Canadian border.

Starting point is 00:48:23 In Bellingham, Washington, an angry mob of 400 to 500 white men at this time attacked the homes of south Asian immigrants and literally beat them out of the city. Institutionalized racism was taken further in 1921 with the passage of the emergency quota act. This legislation utilized immigration statistics to determine a maximum number of immigrants allowed to enter the US from each nation or region. The numbers were heavily skewed in favor of immigration

Starting point is 00:48:47 from Western European nations, severely curbing immigration from areas perceived to be undesirable. The Emergency Quota Act re-restricted the number of immigrants admitted from any country annually to 3% of the number of residents from that same country living in the US already as of the US census of 1910.

Starting point is 00:49:04 So this meant that people from northern European countries had a much higher quota. We're way more likely to be able to admit it to the US than because since there's already so many people of northern European sense, living in the US than people from Eastern Europe or Southern Europe or non-European countries. Interestingly, this act set no limits on immigration

Starting point is 00:49:25 from Latin America. Basically, this law was enacted to reduce the amount of immigrants pouring in from Eastern European countries devastated in the wake of World War I. America, still for the most part, cool with Latin immigrants as of the 1920s. And then that would change, that would be reformed by the immigration act of 1924.

Starting point is 00:49:44 Well, actually, it wouldn't affect Latin, I'm sorry. by the immigration act of 1924. Well, actually, it wouldn't affect Latin. I'm sorry, the next immigration act in 1924, still a little ways further along before it starts to affect Latin immigrants. The immigration of act 1924 basically just imposed further bans on Eastern and now Southern Europeans, particularly Italian Catholics, not popular at that time. We learned about anti-Italian and particularly anti-saccelian American leanings in the drunk as fuck, Axeman of New Orleans suck, few weeks back. This act used some careful wording to exclude mainly, uh, at times and also European Jews, accorded in the US Department

Starting point is 00:50:16 of State Office of the Historian. The purpose of the act was to preserve the ideal of American hom- uh, homogeneity. Uh,ity. Homogeneity got whatever. Shouldn't have thrown that word in my nose. Homogeneity, fucking, fucking, hard word. I wanted to keep American homogeneity. It provided funding and legal instructions to courts of deportation for non-white immigrants, Southern and Eastern European immigrants

Starting point is 00:50:41 who exceeded their national quotas. It added other non-whites to the existing ban on most Asians, however it didn't ban Africans, didn't ban Hispanics. Persons of mixed white and Native American ancestry were considered white. This principle was interpreted under the act to allow Latin Americans to immigrate, to immigrate as white persons. So Mexicans still able to move on up and become citizens. Restricting overall immigration again did lead to increase illegal immigration in the early 1920s and response to rising numbers

Starting point is 00:51:08 of illegal entries and alien smuggling, especially along land borders. In 1924, Congress created the U.S. Border Patrol within the Immigration Service. The Executive Order, 6166, June 10, 1933, reunited the Bureau of Immigration and Bureau of Naturalization into one agency, the Immigration and Naturalization Service. The agency's focus shifted towards law enforcement as immigration volume dropped significantly during the Great Depression. Economy not great, people not wanting to pour in. Through the 1930s, the INS dedicated more resources to investigation, exclusion, prevention of illegal entries, deportation of criminal and subversive aliens and cooperating closely with the Department of Justice

Starting point is 00:51:47 United States attorneys and federal Bureau of investigation and prosecuting violations of immigration and Nationality loss and that makes sense the economy is you know devastated now the focus is a little less on keeping people out because Because people don't want to come over as much and the focus is more on getting certain people out, because job competition is fierce. 1940. Presidential reorganization plan number five moved the INS from the Department of Labor, the Department of Justice. New national security duties led to the INS's rapid growth throughout World War II. The agency's workforce doubled from approximately 4,000 to 8,000 employees as INS instituted the following programs to support the war effort. One was reordering and fingerprinting every alien in the US through the alien registration

Starting point is 00:52:32 program, organizing and operating in tournament camps and detention facilities for enemy aliens, overseeing the expedited naturalization of more than 100,000 members of the US Armed Forces, including 13,587 soldiers naturalized abroad in the nation's first overseas naturalization ceremonies. We needed more bodies to fight for us, increased border patrol operations, record checks related to security clearances for immigrant defense workers, administration of a program to import agricultural laborers to harvest the crops left behind by American workers who went to war. 1942, the agricultural program I just mentioned was given a big boost. American farmers' use of seasonal migrant workers, primarily from Mexico, was

Starting point is 00:53:13 facilitated by the Bracero Program. The Bracero Program was created by executive order in 1942 because many growers argued that World War II would bring labor shortages to low-paying agriculture jobs. Braceros was Spanish for manual labor, by the way. The Bracerro program, controversial Mexican nationals desperate for work, willing to take arduous jobs at wages scorned by most Americans. Farm workers already living in the U.S. worried that the Braceros would compete for jobs in

Starting point is 00:53:38 lower wages. In theory, the Bracerro program had safeguards to protect both Mexican and domestic workers. For example, guaranteed payment of at least the prevailing area wage received by native workers, employment for three-fourths of the contract period, adequate sanitary and free housing, decent meals or reasonable prices, occupational insurance, and employer's expense, free transportation back to Mexico at the end of the contract. Employers were supposed to hire Braceros only in areas of certified domestic labor shortages,

Starting point is 00:54:07 not to use them as strike breakers. Those are all the laws, but in practice farmers ignored many of these rules. And Mexican and native workers suffered while growers benefited from plentiful cheap labor. And other Americans then lost their jobs because of this. Between the 1940s and mid 1950s farm wages dropped sharply

Starting point is 00:54:23 as a percentage of manufacturing wages uh... result in part of the use of press arrows and undocumented labor to lack full rights an american society this is such an important point and i i feel like a lot of people complain about immigrants illegal immigrants taking american jowls by would be you know by being willing to work for lower wages what i think it's left out of this discussion all too often is the fact that

Starting point is 00:54:44 legal citizens often non- the fact that legal citizens often non-Hispanic legal citizens are the ones hiring them, are the ones paying the illegal immigrants these cheap illegal wages. There's no problem if no one is hiring the illegal immigrants. A legal immigrant is doing a steal job, someone is giving them those jobs. And aren't those people the real problem? They're fucking over the immigrants and they're fucking over American workers. Right?

Starting point is 00:55:06 I feel like blaming illegal immigrants for taking jobs. It's kind of like blaming heroin addicts for a heroin epidemic. You don't get, you know, the drug without the dealer. It's the dealers. They're the real problem, which is why dealing heroin gets you more present time than buying and using it. I know the problem is more complicated than this, but maybe tougher legislation is to be passed to more severely punished employers who are paying out of the table illegal wages

Starting point is 00:55:28 to illegal immigrants. I mean, again, these people are both taking better pain jobs from legal Americans and also illegally exploiting illegal immigrants. 1943, Congress repeals the Chinese Occlusion Act, fucking finally, with the passage of the Magnus Act, Chinese immigrants are, fucking finally, geez. With the passage of the Magnus and acts, Chinese immigrants are now allowed to become citizens. And a quotas set up allowing Chinese immigrants to immigrate to the US every year.

Starting point is 00:55:51 Guess how many get in every year? 105. Back, what did it insult? What a joke. I guess that's technically better than nothing, but come on. All right, okay, I know we've been asked all this to you guys. I know there's millions of you in the country this point.

Starting point is 00:56:04 We're gonna let you come on over legally. We're gonna let 105 of you. We're gonna let us as many as 105 can come on over and that's it 1946 the loose seller act is allows another 100 Indians and 100 Filipinos to legally immigrate each year how generous how generous they can become citizens World War two altars immigration policy again immigrating to your how generous how generous they can become citizens uh... world war two alters immigration policy again nineteen forty eight with the displaced persons act the displaced persons immigration program emerged from the enormous need to

Starting point is 00:56:33 handle millions of displaced persons europe at the end of the world at the end of world war two uh... one strong objection was it took away previous immigration quota places from others already on quota waiting lists, simply transferred these places to displaced persons and actually did this forwardly for as many years as needed by displaced persons, kind of like mortgaging the future year's places

Starting point is 00:56:55 for other people. Another strong objection was that the details of the act caused it to heavily discriminate against Jewish displaced persons, specifically those originally from Poland, now making this up, not just another shot of Polish people, they really did it, and the Soviet Union who would not yet reach Germany, Austria or Italy by December 22, 1945. This excluded group represented nearly

Starting point is 00:57:16 the full totality of Jewish displaced persons. Those objections and others were removed in a later displaced persons immigration act in 1950. Displaced person eligible for admission to the United States under this act given the conditions on or after September 1st 1939 and on or before December 22nd 1945. They had to have entered Germany, Austria, Italy by that time, resided in the American sector of Italy, resided in the British sector, a French sector of Berlin or Vienna, resided in the American zone, British zone, or French zone of Germany or Austria, had to be a victim of persecution by the Nazi government, or native of Czechoslovakia

Starting point is 00:57:52 who fled persecution or fear of persecution from that country, and any of the affirmation country since January 1, 1948. So that allowed us a lot of stipulations. 1951, after nearly a decade in existence, concerns about production and the US entry into the Korean conflict led Congress to formalize the Bracero program with public law 78. Starting in 1951, hundreds of thousands of Bracero entered the country each year as non-immigrant laborers all the way until 1964. The Macaron Walter Act is passed, 1952. And finally, repeals the remnants of the free white person's

Starting point is 00:58:25 restriction of the Naturalization Act of 1799. They waited all the way until 1952 to get rid of the white person language. All right, all right, well, fuck and change it. However, this act remained the quota system for the effectively banned, nearly all immigration from Asia, except for those small annual quotas.

Starting point is 00:58:41 For a few years, the massive influx of Hispanic workers is starting to create a lot of public backlash. And then one of the most racist sounding programs that American political history has launched in 1954. Now, now, now is 1950s is when the anti-latin immigration movement really starts to pick up steam. 1954 operation wetback is launched. I am not kidding. I'm not making that up. The racial epithet, wetback, used to describe Mexicans who illegally entered Texas by crossing the Rio Grande River, Rio Grande River. Operation way back, I feel terrible saying it, but that's an actual name of this

Starting point is 00:59:16 operation, launched by the Eisenhower administration, the largest mass deportation program in American history. As many as 1.3 million Hispanic immigrants who did not return home after their Bacerral visas had expired, rounded up and deported. With the help of the Mexican government, which one of these people to come back to help alleviate a labor shortage, border patrol agents and local officials used military techniques and engaged in a coordinated tactical operation to remove the immigrants. Along the way, they used widespread kind of racial stereotypes to justify their sometimes brutal treatment of the immigrants.

Starting point is 00:59:48 Inside the US and anti-American sentiment is pervasive now, harsh portrayals of Mexican immigrants are being thrown around as being dirty, disease-bearing, and irresponsible. The anti-Mexican racism that still exists, very strongly in many places, you have reached a fever pitch in 1950s. Anti-Asian sentiment is decreasing, anti-Hispanic sentiment increasing. During Operation Wetback, tens of thousands of immigrants

Starting point is 01:00:11 shoved into buses, boats and planes sent to often unfamiliar parts of Mexico where they struggled to rebuild their lives in Chicago. Three planes a week were filled with immigrants and flown to Mexico. In Texas, 25% of all the immigrants supported were crammed into boats. Boats that were later compared to slave ships. People dying to sunstroke, disease,

Starting point is 01:00:29 other causes, wallocussity, all two reminiscent in some ways of some of the current current immigration situations regarding Latin immigrants. 1965, things get a little better. The Immigration and National React of 1965 was passed at AKA the Heart Hart seller act. Man, longtime Democratic New York congressman, a manual seller sponsored another bill, a leavey and racial discrimination when it came to immigration. He's a good man. He was born in Brooklyn, 1888, died in Brooklyn, 1991, aged 92. Went to Columbia and Manhattan got a law degree from Columbia, dude, never left New York City. But he did a lot of good for the country as a whole. This act removed racial language from previous immigration laws, got rid of the ban on various Asian and Middle Eastern nations, should be noted

Starting point is 01:01:12 though that it upheld a ban on homosexuals. Still classifying them is mentally defective and suffering from the constitutional psychopathic inferiority. The new law did maintain per country limits on immigration, also created preference visa categories that focused on immigrant skills and family relationships with citizens or US residents. The bill set numerical restrictions on visas at 170,000 per year with a per country of origin quota. However, immediate relatives of US citizens and special immigrants had no restrictions. Some of the special immigrants included ministers, former employees of the US government, former medical graduates, among others. This act significantly altered US racial composition. Prior to 1965, the demographics

Starting point is 01:01:54 of immigration stood at mostly European. It was 68% of legal immigrants in the 1950s came from Europe and Canada. However, in the three years, or excuse me, in the years, three, in the 20 years, 21 years actually, 1971 to 1991, immigrants from Hispanic and Latin American countries made 47.9% of the immigrants, Mexico accounting for 23.7% and immigrants from Asia, 35.2%. Not only did this change the ethnic makeup of immigration, it also greatly increased the number of immigrants. Immigration constituted 11% of the total US population growth between 19, 16, and 17. Growing up to 33% from 1970 to 1980,

Starting point is 01:02:35 and 39% from 1980 to 1990. Yeah, man, a lot of numbers, a lot of numbers, man, so far, right? I don't know about you guys, but these are to confuse me after a while. Too many, let's take a break. Let's take a break from today's numbers with a quick word from today's sponsor. Time suck has brought to you today by renowned musician Andrew Holes A-Hole Air Banjo Academy.

Starting point is 01:02:57 At the A-Hole Air Banjo Academy, you'll learn the fundamentals of air banjeling, like scales. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. And the basic keys of G, C, D, E, A and even H. You'll be introduced to the basics of rhythm, lead, and of course improvisation. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, So become a real banjo playing A-hole. Sign up for some lessons today at A-holeBanjoAcademy.com. Slash Time Suck. Get 20% off lessons that are guaranteed to annoy the living shit out of everyone around

Starting point is 01:03:59 you for the rest of your irritating life. That of course is not one of today's sponsors. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, is not one of today's sponsors. Today's time stock brought to you by Lisa. Quality night's sleep helps you recover from distractions faster prevents burnout, make better decisions, not play air banjo, improve your memory, overall make fewer mistakes. It's not marketing science. I know more than I'd care to about the importance of sleep, turns out you need it.

Starting point is 01:04:27 And I now know the difference between hotel sleep on the road, Lisa mattress sleep at home, no comparison. Lisa crushes it. I love it. My spine and crushed a disk really love it. To design a better mattress, Lisa leveraged 30 plus years of experience, hundreds of hours of testing to develop the perfect mattress for all body shapes and sleeping styles. Lisa's mission is to provide a bed or night sleep for everybody and through their 110

Starting point is 01:04:49 program, they donate one mattress for every 10 they sell. Sell. So cool, man. That's more than 26,000 mattresses and counting. Lisa strives to leave the world better than they found it. And that doesn't stop with mattress donations together with the Arbor Day Foundation. Lisa plans one tree for every mattress they sell and are committed to planning one million trees by 2025.

Starting point is 01:05:12 So don't miss Lisa's kickass summer savings. Get $160 off, Alisa mattress at Lisa.com slash time suck. That's Lisa.com slash time suck for $160 off Lisa L.E.E.S.A. A better place to sleep, link in the episode description and on the sponsor section of the time suck app and website. Bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me down, bring me, bring me down, bring me, bring me down, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring me, bring Air Banjo can now now no sleep. All right, no sweet Lisa sleep right now. You gotta wake the fuck up. That's why it's playing the banjo. Uh, we got more history to discuss back to today's immigration timeline where things start to get a little better.

Starting point is 01:05:52 Uh, for a little bit by 1980, 1980 President Jimmy Carter, uh, guy who probably knew his way around a banjo, signs the Refugee Act creates a system to process refugees separately from other immigrants. The immigration ceiling separately kept at 270,000 people. The main objectives of this act to create a new definition of refugee based on the one created the UN Convention and Protocol on the status of refugees. It was to raise the limitation from 17,400 to 50,000 refugees admitted each fiscal year and provide emergency procedures when that number exceeded 50,000.

Starting point is 01:06:24 It also established the Office of U.S. coordinator for refugee affairs, the office of refugee resettlement. Most importantly, it established explicit procedures on how to deal with refugees in the U.S. by creating a uniform and effective resettlement and absorption policy. Jimmy Kata, honestly, I don't know a hell lot about his political policies, but he always seemed like a good dude. Him and his wifeossin have been married for seventy two years seventy two years of a married she's ninety uh... he's ninety three

Starting point is 01:06:52 and they live in the same house they lived in before he was president a two bedroom rancher assessed this is like this year assess this yet at a hundred and sixty seven thousand dollars in plain Georgia the birthplace of both jimmy and r, little town of 234 people, 234. Dude still flies domestic when he travels. Unreal, the least blingy president in modern American history. Let me sum Jimmy Cotta.

Starting point is 01:07:17 1986, US President Ronald Reagan passes the controversial immigration reform and control act, giving undocumented immigrants a chance to gain legal citizen status status. The act also intensified efforts to crack down on US employers hiring undocumented workers and increase the annual limit on immigration to 540,000 people. The act also required employees to attest their employees immigration status. Made it illegal to hire or recruit illegal immigrants knowingly, legalized certain seasonal agricultural illegal immigrants. And here's a big one that relates to the current immigration situation.

Starting point is 01:07:51 It legalized illegal immigrants who entered the US before January 1st, 1982 and had resided there continuously with the penalty of a fine. Back taxes do, admission of guilt, candidates required to prove that they were not guilty of crimes, that they were not guilty of crimes, that they were in the country before January 1st, 1982, they had possessed at least a minimal knowledge about, or that they possessed minimal knowledge about US history government and the English language. And nearly three million illegal immigrants granted amnesty through this act.

Starting point is 01:08:20 Reagan! Great work there. Thank you, actor and president. Then there was the Immigration Act 1990, increased total overall immigration to allow 700,000 immigrants to come to the US per year for the fiscal years 1992, 1994, 675,000 per year after that. The act also lifted the English testing process for naturalization that had been imposed in the Naturalization Act of 1906 for permanent residents who are 55 and over and have been living in the US for 15 years as a permanent resident. And finally, finally, finally eliminated exclusion of homosexuals under the medically unsound

Starting point is 01:08:55 classification of sexual deviant that was still in the 1965 acts language. 1996 president Clinton signed the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act. This act boosted border enforcement, called for construction offenses along the heavily traffic areas of the US, Mexican border. Social programs for illegal immigrants are reduced, virtually eliminated from undocumented immigrants. Congress mandated jail time for some immigrants accused of committing crimes. It was this act that established the deportation

Starting point is 01:09:25 machinery that we have today. The 96 law essentially invented immigration enforcement as we know it now, where deportation is a constant and plausible threat to millions of immigrants. Legal immigrants, including green card holders, could now be deported. If they were convicted of certain crimes, which now covered a broad umbrella of offenses, some of which were not violent uh... congress radically expanded which crimes made it uh... made an immigrant eligible for deportation and they made these changes retroactive god man that's that that's the shit that i feel terrible people were slightly you you do everything right

Starting point is 01:09:56 you're you're you're moving along the right track and then the government's like no now we're changing everything we told you ten years ago now that's gone over night says law professor nancy uh... more of it so the new york uh... university people who had formed their lives here came here legally or had uh... just a legal status were working here building their families head ordinary lives and everything else suddenly because of some conviction were even allowed to go in front of a judge more there were just fast tracked to deportation

Starting point is 01:10:20 i remember talking to a guy uh... after a show years ago on on a brass this. He was probably like 40, 50 years old range. Dude was born in Canada, but had lived in the US since he was 18. He got married to an American citizen, had several kids, been working in the States, gainfully employed his entire adult life. And then now when I was talking to him,

Starting point is 01:10:40 he was very concerned about possibly getting sent back to Canada. I remember him telling me he wouldn't go to Canada because he felt like if he went up there, there was a very real chance he would not be able to come back in the U.S. And I'm pretty sure he told me, yeah, that he was a citizen. He got into DUI just like, unfortunately, I also have in my record. That was actually what we kind of talked about was I was doing a DUI joke at that time. It's a couple albums back.

Starting point is 01:11:04 Not an amazing life achievement. And you know, just so you guys know, I learned my lesson, I don't do it anymore. Well, this DUI, I don't know that he had on his record, it flagged him in the system, in this, under this new system. And since he wasn't born in the US, wasn't a citizen at birth,

Starting point is 01:11:20 because he was, you know, from Canada initially, yeah, face the real possibility of getting kicked to fuck out. Crazy! That is crazy. I think these kind of stories get lost in the big immigration debate a lot of times. I'll have more detailed and similar stories to share in this week's special version of Time Sucker Updates.

Starting point is 01:11:36 Well, immigrants convicted of crimes weren't the only one stripped of their ability to argue their case before it judged, before it getting deported. So did anyone apprehended within 100 miles of the border. This new act made it harder to gain citizenship through marriage as well. Marrying a US citizen or permanent resident makes you eligible to apply for a green card. Stotus having an immediate relative

Starting point is 01:11:55 who's a US citizen like a child, as long as a citizen is over 18. These are true whether or not you already live in the US, and before this program it was true regardless of whether or not you were legal to begin with starting with the passage in nineteen six of this uh... legislation uh... and authorized immigrant couldn't directly apply for legal status status even if he had or he or she she had uh... married u.s. citizen or qualified for a green card uh... through a relative

Starting point is 01:12:22 immigrants were banished for at least three years if they didn't live in the u.s. without papers for six months or if they or if they years. If they didn't live in the US without papers for six months, or if they had lived, excuse me, in the US without papers for six months, the banishment lasted 10 years. If the immigrant had lived in the US without papers for a year or more, you could wave these bars if you could show that your spouse or child would suffer extreme hardship,

Starting point is 01:12:40 but you had to leave the country to do that. Triggering the ban before you found out if you'd actually be able to come back in through a waiver. You know, and many immigrants understand how we felt this wasn't worth the risk to leave the country where their family was barely getting by, needed their support to just leave, and then hope that you get

Starting point is 01:12:56 to come back and support them later. 2003, the Department of Homeland Security is created in response to the terrorist attacks 9-11, taking over US customs and immigration agencies, immigration and naturalization services turns into immigration and customs enforcement. Ice. Joining customs and border protection, citizenship and immigration services and nearly 20 other agencies under the newly formed Department of Homeland Security. In 2006, the Secure Fence Act authorizes a construction of 700 miles over 1100 kilometers of double layered fencing along the US Mexico border. The precursor to the cries of Bill

Starting point is 01:13:30 DeWall barbed wire fences with light and infrared camera poles. The US border patrol had begun to erect the first physical barrier south of San Diego 1990. 14 miles of fencing had been built along the border of San Diego and Tijuana. and then this act took to barricade much, much further. By April 2009, about 613 miles of pedestrian fencing and vehicle barriers have been completed along the southwest border from California to Texas in areas of high traffic immigration. The total length of the border between the US and Mexico by the way, 1,954 miles. And this fencing by the way, very expensive. From fiscal year 2007 through 2015

Starting point is 01:14:08 to cost approximately 2.3 billion to deploy border fencing along the Southwest border, estimated that maintaining the fencing will cost more than a billion more over the next 20 years. So how effective is it, this very expensive fent system? A 2017 government accountability office report citing US customs and border protection, CPB data found that from fiscal year 2010,

Starting point is 01:14:35 through fiscal year 2015, the US Mexico border fence had been breached 9,287 times. At an average cost of $784 per breach to repair. The same report concluded that the CBP cannot measure the contribution of fencing to border security operations along the Southwest border because it is not developed metrics for this assessment. They noted that because the government lacks such data,

Starting point is 01:14:58 it was unable to assess the effectiveness of border fencing and therefore could not identify the cost effectiveness of border fencing compared to other assets, the agency deploys, including border patrol agents and various surveillance technologies. Also, defense routinely climbed or otherwise circumvented. The GAO reported in 2017 that both pedestrian and vehicle barriers have been defeated by various methods, including using ramps to drive vehicles up and over vehicle fencing in the sector. That's impressive. That sounds like some people have been just dukes of hazarding that shit. Now, where are those old duke boys who found themselves in a heap of trouble stuck on the south side of the Rio Grande? Just how would they make

Starting point is 01:15:40 it to the right now? They're riven up that 69 charger. Oh, what? They're going to go for the jump. Ross keto p cool, train, old days hot on the trail. Buenos Aires, when it's where they boys fucking, ah, I almost got through with that messed up word. In addition, that's that's a old dux of hazard reference for anybody under the age of 40. Like what's the fuck? Who dux of what? That was that was supposed to be way be way than jet way than Jennings's voice in addition to driving over the fence Many have scaled it jumped over it. They've cut holes through it. They burrowed or tunnel tunneled or an ether New York Times op-ed writer Lawrence Downs wrote in 2013 a climber with a rope can hop in less than half a minute smugglers with Jack Hammer's tunnel under it. They throw drugs and rocks over it the fence is breached not just by

Starting point is 01:16:24 cameras tunnel under it. They throw drugs and rocks over it. The fence is breached, not just by the fence is breached, not just by sunlight and shadows, but also the hooded gaze of drug cartel lookouts by bullets. Border agents describe their job as an unending battle of wits of cat and mouse game with a constant threat of violence. 2012. President Barack Obama passes an executive order called the DACA or the deferred action for childhood arrivals, allowing hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants who came to the US as children to remain in the country without the threat of deportation. The order also allows the so-called dreamers, illegal immigrants under 30 years old to stay in work.

Starting point is 01:16:58 The order allows some individuals who are brought to the United States illegally as children to receive a renewable two-year period of deferred action from deportation, and become eligible for a work permit in the US. To be eligible for the program, recipients cannot have felonies or serious misdemeanors. The policy was created after acknowledgement that dreamer students had been largely raised in the US, and this was seen as a way to remove immigration enforcement

Starting point is 01:17:21 attention from low priority individuals with good behavior. Dreamers, by the way, get their name from the Dream Act to build an aim to grant legal status to young immigrants brought to the US legally by their parents. The Dream Act was first introduced back in August of 2001 in the Senate by Illinois Democrat Democratic Senator Dick Durbin. Oh, Dicky Durbin. Oh, Dick D. Oh, D Dick.

Starting point is 01:17:43 And Utah Republican Senator Orrin Hatch. By partisanship. I love it. I love it. Work together, you fuckers. It was a legislative proposal for a multi-phase process for qualifying alien minors in the U.S. that would first grant conditional residency and upon meeting further qualifications, permanent residency, but it never passed. So, so there you go. So how things shift the recently? Well, honestly, other than people either being in favor of the whole build out wall movement or people being against it, I didn't really know where things shifted until recently. I know people have been getting fired up.

Starting point is 01:18:16 I know this is a hot topic, people. I know people have been getting detained, but I didn't know why. Now I do. And I'm going to share what I've learned with you. After today's final sponsor, today's time suck is brought to you by the great courses plus and talk about Russia and talk about Russia right now. So hot, so hot, like Hansel and Zoolander hot. We talked a lot about Russia here on the suck, Stalin and his Putin, she could Tilo, Chernobyl,

Starting point is 01:18:43 love a Russian suck, fascinating nation, and I highly recommend checking out a fantastic course on the history of Russia from who the great course is plus. This course offers a fascinating exploration into the ideas, values, socio-economical shifts that make up Russia's past, beginning with Peter the Great, continuing on with the collapse of communism. Check out lecture 27, taught by Professor Mark Steinberg, Bolsheviks in power.

Starting point is 01:19:08 Dive deep into how Russia transitioned from an imperialistic monarchy to a communist world power. Or check out lecture 30. Pick up an extra 30 minutes of info on Stalin. Be up your existing suck knowledge. Hail Nimrod. The history of Russia, this course, 36 lectures and all, is just one of the vast and fantastic catalog of courses that you get to enjoy when you sign up for the Great Courses Plus.

Starting point is 01:19:32 So much knowledge, so much info, so well done. Learn about practically anything. Watch and listen anytime, anywhere with the Great Courses Plus app, you're gonna love the Great Courses Plus. And today, they're giving time suckers a free months trial with unlimited access. Enjoy their entire library of fasting lectures for free at the great courses plus dot com slash time suck. That's the great courses plus dot com slash time suck to get started today. You're gonna love it. Link in the episode description easy one click button in the time suck to get started today. You're going to love it. Link in the episode description. Easy one click button in the time suck apps that take advantage of this awesome deal.

Starting point is 01:20:07 All right, back in the USA, back to the immigration timeline that has led up to Trump, Trump's administration's current policies. The past few years, no important congressional immigration legislation has been passed. However, several important executive orders regarding immigration and and or deportation, have been pushed through. So what is an executive order? We've mentioned a few here already in the show. It's an example of how powerful the office of the presidency is.

Starting point is 01:20:34 An executive order is a directive from the president that has much of the same power as federal law. The constitutional basis for the executive order is the president's broad power to issue executive directives. According to the congressional research service, there is no direct definition of executive orders, presidential memoranda and proclamation in the US constitution. There is likewise no specific provision authorizing their issuance. This is interesting to me in regards to president Trump because love him, hate him, confuse behind, don't care about him.

Starting point is 01:21:06 He has been an extremely unique president and one of the most unique things he's done is exploit loopholes and law or policy or identify unprecedented uses of power and then just use them. Like he does a lot of things that leave a lot of pundits and critics screaming like what did the fuck? He can't do that. And then when people really analyze it, they have this realization of son of a bitch. He can do that actually.

Starting point is 01:21:28 We did not know what president could do that. We just assumed because no one else did it. It was probably illegal son of a bitch. Turns out it's totally legal, just unprecedented. And one of the things he does is issue a lot more executive orders than most presidents because you can bypass Congress and the senate and quickly enact new policy now there's a chance that congress will then pass legislation that invalidates an executive order and they have done that on occasion but that takes time that puts the onus on them to move directly against the president uh... and

Starting point is 01:21:57 then also the supreme court can overturn uh... executive order they can they can kind of push pause on it review it and they and they do that from time to time as well. Well, Trump has issued more executive orders in the first year of office than any other US president since Lyndon Jumbo Johnson. And several of his executive orders have pertained to immigration policy. We'll look at them closely before bouncing out of this timeline. I know it's been a big one. On January 25, 2017, Trump signed executive order 13768 titled enhancing public safety and the interior of the U.S., which among other things significantly increased the number of immigrants considered a priority for deportation. Immediately prior to this order, an immigrant ruled removable would only be considered a priority to actually be

Starting point is 01:22:41 physically deported if they, in addition to being removable were convicted of serious crimes such as felonies or multiple misdemeanors under the new order uh... and immigrant can be considered a priority to be removed even if convicted of only minor crimes or even if they're just accused of criminal activity uh... guadalupe Garcia de rejos became the poster child for the type of illegal uh... immigrants uh... uh... but but for this type of illegal immigrant, but for the type of illegal immigrant, excuse me, affected by this order. She came illegally to the US when she was 14 years old. Now she's 36 and she was deported on February 9th, 2017,

Starting point is 01:23:15 separated from American husband and two teenage kids. She'd previously been convicted of felony, criminal impersonation related to using a falsified social security card to work at an Arizona water park. So I feel like it sounds worse at first like she's a felon and then you realize like her felon or felony conviction is just like trying to get a job at a water park. She's a felon.

Starting point is 01:23:35 She's trying to regulate the fucking loop you loop slide at the wet and wild. This conviction had not been considered serious enough prior to this order to actually remove her from the country, although she was required to check in regularly with US immigration and custom enforcement again, aka ice, which she done regularly since 2008. First time she checked in with an ice official after new executive order took effect, that led to her detention and then physical removal from the country. She remains in Mexico to this day living with her parents in a combo, working in a tortilla shop. Two days later, January 27, 2017, President Trump signs executive order 13769 titled protecting the nation from terrorist attacks by foreign nationals.

Starting point is 01:24:15 This suspended entry for citizens of seven countries for 90 days. Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. The order also stopped the admission of refugees of the Syrian civil war indefinitely and the entry of all refugees to the US for 120 days. Now refugees who are on their way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped, were detained at airports. A lot of public backlash regarding this order,

Starting point is 01:24:38 I'm sure you're familiar with it, dominated the news for weeks. A lot of immediate lawsuits, many legal challenges to this order were brought immediately after its issuance from January 28 to January 31, almost 50 cases were filed in federal courts. Some courts in turn granted temporary relief, including a nationwide temporary restraining order that barred the enforcement of major parts of this executive order. On March 6, 2017, Trump signed a revised executive order that among other differences from

Starting point is 01:25:06 the original order excluded Iraq, visa holders, and permanent residents from the temporary suspension and did not differentiate Syrian refugees from other countries. On June 26, 2017, the Supreme Court partially allowed this new revised order to be enforced. September 5, 2017, Trump's office formally announces that the DACA program, aka the Dreamers program initiated by that Obama executive order, is done. This is significant. Put an expiration date on the legal protections granted to the roughly 800,000 people known as Dreamers.

Starting point is 01:25:40 Those people who would enter the country illegally, but as children. President Trump issued a statement saying, I do not favor punishing children, most of whom are now adults for the actions of their parents. But we must also recognize that we are a nation of opportunity because we are a nation of loss. Now, I do think Trump makes a valid point here. This to me is a good example of cold logic versus emotional thinking. And I don't say that, you know, say that thinking

Starting point is 01:26:05 that emotional thinking doesn't have value, you know, it does. But it's an interesting point. Interesting point to think about concerning America's current immigration status. What is the best decision to make when emotion is taken out of the equation? What is the best pragmatic decision? What does the best feel good emotional decision? And then how far apart are those two decisions? We'll look at this in a little bit after the timeline. This kind of stuff. September 24th, 2017, the protecting the nation from terrorist attacks by foreign nationals executive order superseded by presidential proclamation 9645 to establish travel bans on

Starting point is 01:26:37 seven countries, omitting Sudan from previous list while adding North Korea and Venezuela. A presidential proclamation by the way is just a form of executive action, which is a type of executive order. Essentially, slightly different paperwork, same concept. Fucking red tape, man. My God, this is government love to overcomplicate shit. Actually, I'm sure a government employees hate how overcomplicated things are. They're the ones that have to process all this bullshit paperwork.

Starting point is 01:27:01 Overcomplication sadly, maybe just the inevitable result of a few hundred years of different politicians taking office every few years, munking around with the laws, you know, in a lawsuit happy society, things have to get overly worded. If I can do many lawyers get thrown into the mix, things get left on the books, people get scared to remove other things. What a mess it is. Sometimes I feel like it'd be nice just to have a big committee just overhauled all of our laws, just gethauled all of our loss.

Starting point is 01:27:25 Just get rid of all the bullshit. Clarify the essential stuff. But then probably that won't even clean things up because we meet to actually know we're not good on a green hunt stuff. You know, as long as there are modern nations comprised of hundreds of millions of people in an increasingly complex world, shit is probably just going to continue to be more complex. Damn it. Why can't we just put both jangles in charge? If he grins and waxes tail, it's legal.

Starting point is 01:27:48 And we keep it. If both jangles growls, tail goes down, illegal. And it's out. Praise both jangles. Okay, October, 2017, now we're getting close to the present day. Trump ends a ban on refugee admissions while adding new rules for tougher vetting of applicants, essentially halting entry of refugees from 11 high risk nations. This leads immediately to a 40% drop in entrance from those nations.

Starting point is 01:28:11 April 6, 2018, or this year now, Attorney General Jeff Sessions directed federal prosecutors to adopt immediately a zero tolerance policy for all offenses related to the misdemeanor of improper entry into the US. And that this zero tolerance policy shall supersede any existing policies. First time offenders would now face criminal prosecution when historically they would face civil and administrative removal, while criminal convictions were usually reserved for those who committed the felony of illegal reentry after removal. It is the aftermath of this decision that dominates today's immigration headlines.

Starting point is 01:28:46 May 7, 2018, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announces, if you cross the border unlawfully, then we will prosecute you. If you smuggle an illegal alien across the border, then we'll prosecute you. If you're smuggling a child, then we're going to prosecute you. And that child will be separated from you probably as required by law. Following this announcement, dozens of massive protest demonstrations are held around the nation. Many others are held internationally. On June 20th, the summer, 2018, Trump signs another executive order. This one is called, if you don't like it, go fuck yourself.

Starting point is 01:29:20 Now with this order, Trump legalizes the phrase, go fuck yourself to make an exemption to masturbating in public previously being a crime. Since June 20th, it's actually legal to openly masturbate in any public space as long as you are masturbating as a way to display your lack of agreement regarding passage of political policy. Of course, that's not true. I said, lighten this shit up for a second. It's always so heavy.

Starting point is 01:29:47 We'll be funny if that was true though, right? You know, you grab a breakfast at a diner. Some dude just suddenly slams down his morning paper and disgusts, takes off his reading glasses, drops his pants, and then still visibly angry, just starts jerking off over his pancakes and eggs just, I don't like it! I don't like it! Everyone else just shrugs it off. All right. Go back to eating the breakfast. No, on June 20, 2018, Trump signs executive order titled Affording Congress and Opportunity to Address Family Separation.

Starting point is 01:30:14 This order maintained zero tolerance attitude to border crossings of the previous order, but now allowed families to be detained together. June 26, 2018, the Supreme Court ruled five to four along ideological lines in favor of the September 2017 version, presidential proclamation, 9645, of the Trump administration's travel ban, reversing some lower court rulings that had deemed the ban unconstitutional. And of course, there has been a lot of additional immigration rhetoric on all sides this year, in addition to what I've stated all the reforms uh... other stuff past that we could have mentioned but what i've outlined so

Starting point is 01:30:48 far it really does give us the gist of united states immigration and immigration policy history from the very beginning allowing to have a you know that the the necessary context to discuss the current situation tell us only so now let's get the fuck out of this timeline and do just that.

Starting point is 01:31:07 Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely. Alright, to clarify, I'd like to reiterate that the immigration argument really isn't about immigration for most people. It's actually mostly about illegal immigration. That's an important distinction to make although there there have been calls to end even allowing tourists in certain countries and the end of been calls to halt immigration altogether so you know

Starting point is 01:31:33 shit it's about a lot of stuff but mostly it's about illegal immigration so i will mostly focus on that and the main arguments against illegal immigrants from what i can tell are that they uh... one increase crime to take jobs and three drain government resources adding to the burden of national debt so let's start with crime uh... you know do illegal immigrants at the violent crime with with with lens in

Starting point is 01:31:57 iron sandiego few weeks ago we had a very interesting discussion with our uber driver twenty-one-year-old young man recently arrived from his arrived from my rack with his family with his parents and everything and siblings uh... he was to our surprise very in line with trump administration uh... you know the the stance of the trump administration regarding illegal immigration that took his family of four years to make it to america so they left Iraq wanted to make it to america years earlier couldn't do so

Starting point is 01:32:24 had to live in j Jordan for about four years During those four years this man's dad, you know filed out you know filed Then filled out form after form after form took a variety of back ground checks went through a litany of interviews All to prove that they were not terrorists that they didn't have any terrorist ties and He said he wouldn't have it any other way He said he felt that way because he knows what it's like personally to live in violent chaotic nation where he saw dead bodies many many times on his way to and from school

Starting point is 01:32:51 where you know he witnessed gun battles breaking out in his neighborhood violent foreigners from syria and elsewhere sweeping through his neighborhood you know time-to-time uh... the whole point for his family in leaving all this was to make it to a country that actually was safe and he talked about how if america didn't protect his borders, then the quality of life it had that made so many people want to leave their countries to start a new life in America would go away.

Starting point is 01:33:12 You know, he pointed out to the United States is only worth breaking into if life is better here than what it is where people are escaping from. And I thought that was a very interesting perspective. And I do think it's reasonable and rational to screen which immigrants we let in. I can't imagine not doing that. And this is a big argument in favor of cracking down on illegal immigration. If we don't know who's getting in, how can we possibly screen everyone? To be fair though, I should point out that currently America is not more statistically violent because of illegal immigrants despite a never ending flow of annual illegal immigration

Starting point is 01:33:46 throughout our nation's history and a lot of rhetoric. Sure, there are headlines about illegal immigrants, you know, doing this or that as far as crime, even violent crimes like murder, I saw one today. But they're not committing these crimes statistically more often than citizens. That's an important point to make. Alex Nowatresh with the Libertarian Cato Institute think tank and

Starting point is 01:34:07 you fucking know I love a libertarian perspective. Alex compared criminal activity between illegal immigrants and native born residents in Texas. One of the states with the largest influx of immigrants. He noted that in 2015, Texas police made 815,689 arrests of native born Americans, 37,776 arrests of immigrants who are in the country illegally and then 20,323 arrests of legal immigrants. Given the relative populations for each group, he wrote the arrest rate for illegal immigrants was actually 40% below that of native born Americans. In addition, he wrote that the homicide arrest rate for native born Americans was about 46% higher

Starting point is 01:34:49 than the illegal immigrant homicide arrest rate. And that actually makes sense to me. I used to get super annoyed, driving around Los Angeles when there wasn't gridlock traffic, partly because it felt like I was always stuck behind some asshole actually driving the speed limit. Or driving below the speed limit. How much do we hate those people?

Starting point is 01:35:07 You know, and I wanted to drive 10 to 20 miles per hour above the speed limit that I used to do down there. And usually, to me, it seemed that the slow driver appeared to be Hispanic. And I would think I wonder if they're in a legal immigrant, and which makes sense to me because I could drive fast and just all I get is a speeding ticket. And whatever, a couple hundred bucks, a little higher insurance rate. My life continues the same as it before. Very different stakes of getting pulled over means you get kicked the fuck out of the country.

Starting point is 01:35:35 I would think you would mind your peace and cues a little bit more if one arrest means you're out of here. There have been a lot of other studies determining whether or not illegal immigrants add to violent crime. Michael Light, criminologist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison looked at whether the soaring increase in illegal immigration over the last three decades caused a, caused a big jump in violent crimes, murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. And he found that statistically, it absolutely did not. These findings published in the current edition of the peer-reviewed journal Criminology. In a separate study, researchers looked at nonviolent crime.

Starting point is 01:36:05 They found that the dramatic influx of undocumented immigrants, similarly, did not drive up rates of drug and alcohol arrests or the number of drug overdoses in DUI deaths. We found no evidence that undocumented immigration increases the prevalence of any of those outcomes like set. Finally, a research paper appearing in the current edition of the UK journal Migration Letters shows that youthful undocumented immigrants engage in less crime than do legal immigrants or US-born peers.

Starting point is 01:36:30 All of this comes as no surprise to art Acevedo, the police chief in Houston, which has one of the largest undocumented populations in the nation. The chief has been publicly critical of the immigration crackdown recently, saying there's no wave of crime being committed by the immigrant community, as a matter of fact, a lot of the violent crimedown recently saying there's no wave of crime being committed by the immigrant community as a matter of fact a lot of the violent crime that were dealing

Starting point is 01:36:48 with is being committed by people that are born and raised right here in the United States. And I found study after study after study saying the same goddamn thing. There's a lot of rhetoric about a legal blown up crime stats, but no actual consistent studies back that argument up. I'm sure I can find a study or two if I try hard enough, but at the very least stats seem to say overall that immigrants are not adding to crime stats. And again, this is not to say that they're not committing crimes. You got to think about this argument.

Starting point is 01:37:17 They are committing crimes just not statistically at a higher rate than the rest of the country. Now do I think that because there isn't an increased crime stats that we should actually just turn a blind eye towards illegal immigration? Fuck no, there should be a formal legal process you have to undergo to get in. However, I just think it's worth noting that the argument that we have to do something because of all the rampant crime illegal immigrants are committing seems to be utter bullshit, seems to be media nonsense political nonsense. So what about the job argument are illegal immigrants taking American jobs and driving

Starting point is 01:37:49 down wages? Well Vanda, Phil, bad brown senior fellow at the Washington DC thing tank to Brookings Institute has this to say. She says the impact of immigrant labor on the wages of native born workers is low. However, undocumented workers often work the unpleasant back breaking jobs that native born workers are not willing to do. She explains that many of the jobs occupied by undocumented workers in the US are physically demanding jobs that Americans do not seem to want, such as cutting fish, working on farm

Starting point is 01:38:14 fields. She argues, fixing immigration is not about mass deportations of people, but about creating a legal visa system for jobs Americans do not want. And it is about providing better education opportunities, skills development, and retooling, and safety nets for American workers. However, Brian Stoffer, journalist at Politico, an Arlington Virginia-based media company

Starting point is 01:38:34 that focuses on politics has an imposing view on this matter. He says that anyone who tells you that immigration doesn't have any negative effects, doesn't understand how it really works. And this is regarding the workforce. When the supply of workers goes up, the price of firms has to have to pay to higher workers goes down. You know, just supply and demand economics.

Starting point is 01:38:52 Wage trends over the past half century suggest that a 10% increase. The number of workers with a particular set of skills probably lowers the wage of that group by at least 3%. Even after the economy has fully adjusted those skill groups that received the most immigrants will still offer lower pay relative to those that received fewer immigrants. He further states that the typical high school dropout earns about $25,000 annually. According to Census data, immigrants admitted in the past two decades lacking a high school diploma have increased the size of the low skilled workforce by roughly 25% as a result.

Starting point is 01:39:25 The earnings of this particularly vulnerable group dropped by between 800 and 1500 each year. Now, that's an important point to make. We can joke, and I've definitely made some of these jokes about how a legal immigrants are willing to take low-paying jobs, like picking fruit, low-level construction laborer, landscaping, dishwasher, et cetera, and like, you know, like, and who wants these jobs anyway. But what if companies weren't able to hire illegal immigrants for these jobs? What if they had to hire Americans? What if in order to attract citizens to these jobs, they had to pay more?

Starting point is 01:39:58 Would the ripple effect of that crush the economy by raising the cost of goods and putting small businesses dependent on this illegal workforce out of business or would it provide a living wage to more Americans and help the economy overall? I don't know. That's some deep dive economic theory shit there from what I can tell economists, economists, economists, you guys economists are deeply divided on. Stopper does mention that because companies can pay lower wages due to illegal immigrants, they make more in profits, benefiting owners more than workers, adding to the widening gap

Starting point is 01:40:28 between the rich and the poor. So basically, illegal immigration, help in the wealthy factory owner hurting the already poor factory worker. So you know, at a little more than a quick glance, I'd have to say yes, a massive influx of illegal immigration absolutely does harm American jobs. At least some of them, some of the most vulnerable Americans are affected. Those already at the deep poverty level, we mentioned earlier already in real danger of falling one step down into homelessness.

Starting point is 01:40:54 So now for another debate point, our illegal immigrants adding to the national tax burden. Well, let's start again with political Brian Stoffer. He claims that immigrants received government assistance at higher rates than natives. The higher cost of all the services provided to immigrants and the lower taxes they pay because they have lower earnings inevitably implying that on a year-to-year basis immigration creates a fiscal whole of at least 50 billion. 50 billion that burden falling on the native population. But the folks over the Brookings Institute disagree. Brookings senior fellow Danny Behr points out a positive link between immigration and economic growth. Behr explains

Starting point is 01:41:30 that while immigrants represent about 15% of the general US workforce, they account for around a quarter of entrepreneurs and a quarter of investors in the US. And over one third of new forms have at least one immigrant entrepreneur in the initial leadership team. Behr also states that by cutting on immigration, the control misinopportunity for new inventions and ventures that could generate more jobs for natural citizens already here. Interesting thoughts. Moose-of-Far, Kristi, a director at Migration Policy Institute,

Starting point is 01:41:58 believes cutting down immigrants is detrimental to the economy. Fewer immigrants means fewer workers. You want to be a super economic power. You need labor market growth. Just he says, adding, you can't have economic growth without labor market growth. And I thought this was very interesting. One Texan, former president George W. Bush, has a lot of interesting things to say about immigration, or at least his presidential center does. A quote on the website says, America is strengthened by the contributions made by immigrants for the U.S. economy to flourish to its full potential outdated immigration policy must be modernized.

Starting point is 01:42:29 The Bush Center says that immigrants are not taking over. Then in fact, immigrants actually only account for 13.5 percent of the total population, which is in line with historical norms. But I'm going to let off track. Oh, no, and actually one thing he says also is that they help the economy stating that immigrant owned businesses have an average of 11 employees. But I am going to let track or no and actually one that one thing he says also is that they help the economy stated in immigrant owned businesses have an average of 11 employees but I am going to track you start looking into a legal immigration you never will find yourself an arguments for immigration in general and uh... you know we're supposed to be

Starting point is 01:42:54 talking folks about illegal immigration so let's focus on it will michael mcdonald phd assistant professor and finance at fairfield University thinks that legal immigration does help the economy and I'm not making his name up. I swear I'm not making other name. His name really is Michael McDonald. YAML PROMISE! Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

Starting point is 01:43:15 oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh I swear he's really a professor in FireHonance. I swear his name is really Michael McDonald. I swear he has some shit to say about immigration.

Starting point is 01:43:36 Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Okay, Michael McDonald, not triple M, says the economic impact of illegal immigration in the US is costly, impacts of financial security of the country's legal residents. The impact plays out a number of ways. Legal immigration reduces wages. Those unregulated workers are often underpaid, which keeps wages lower on a particular occupation of region.

Starting point is 01:43:56 Legal aliens can put a financial burden on local and federal law enforcement. Immigrants on average tend to have larger families in those in the US. The difference is constrained the resource to local districts and he goes on and on and on. Meg Wee, state tax policy director for the Institute on taxation, economic policy, disagrees saying, fuck Michael McDonald, he could suck my dick. So you know, there's that to consider. No, Meg didn't say that. It would be amazing if she did.

Starting point is 01:44:22 She said undocumented immigrants contribute significantly to state and local taxes, collectively pain and estimated 11.64 billion a year. Contributions range from almost 2.2 million in Montana with an estimated undocumented population of 4,000 to more than 3.1 billion in California, uh, home to more than 3 million undocumented immigrants. Uh, so overall, I'd say the results of whether or not illegal immigrants are tax burden mixed. So to review, legal immigration does not add to existing crime rates or it need to does illegal immigration.

Starting point is 01:44:55 So far illegal immigration, yeah, sorry, does not illegal immigrants do take away certain jobs, the jobs of unskilled workers primarily. Legal immigration does drive down wages for those jobs by flooding the market with too much supply. However, immigrants, including illegal immigrants, do seem to add value to the overall economy and they don't currently add an unnecessary burden to the tax system. So what the fuck do we do? Do we just let whoever wants to pour in, pour in?

Starting point is 01:45:21 I don't think so. That Iraqi Uber driver from San Diego. He got really angry when Lindsey and I brought this out. He talked about how insulting it would be to do that to legal immigrants. He talked about how he and his family, they sat in Jordan, you know, living in more danger than they were. Then they are here now in the US for over four years trying to do things the right way. He said, why would future immigrants go through years of paperwork and vetting if they know

Starting point is 01:45:44 it's just easier to sneak in if you're allowed to stay? And that's a great point. Another thing to consider is how does our nation in general actually feel about immigration? Like it is a democracy overall. We'll despite how the media portrays the immigration narrative, people actually seem less alarmed about immigration. Overall, then there were a few decades ago, according to a 2017 Gallup poll, I find she like this fast. I need to disconnect between what polls and stats say and what the media actually wants us to believe. So much the media is such a fucking despicable joke right now.

Starting point is 01:46:15 The share of Americans calling for lower levels of immigration has fallen from a high of 65% in the mid 90s to just 35%. Now near its record low. It's poll found that fears that immigrants bring crime take jobs from native born families, damage the budget, overall economy, or at all time lows. It found that the percentage of Americans saying immigrants mostly helped the economy has reached as highest point since the Gallup began tracking that question of 1993. A Pew Research poll asking if immigrants strengthened the country with their hard work and talents

Starting point is 01:46:44 similarly found affirmative responses at an all time high in a june two thousand eighteen gallop poll seventy five percent of americans were found to think that immigration in general good for the nation so where does this leave us well it leaves us as you know most americans pretty fucking cool immigration sure there's gonna be some people who are xenophobic they don't like having their neighborhood infiltrated by culture. They just don't understand they're not used to. There are, you know, going to be some people who are just frankly racist about it. Just life, there are going to be some people who live in high crime neighborhoods who see criminals of a certain ethnicity commit most of the crimes and that's

Starting point is 01:47:20 going to influence their worldview. Some people are going to lose their jobs to a legal immigrants and understandably be fucking pissed. That's going to affect their world view. But overall stats don't confirm immigration fears on a national level. There are going to be some who do lose their jobs, you know, but overall the economy in general not going to suffer. And aside from this, okay, here's another thing to consider, the wall, right? That's the big thing with immigration, the wall. So we build the fucking wall. On the American-American border, border. Would it even work if we built it?

Starting point is 01:47:50 According to the Cato Institute Think Tank study I read, many Border Patrol agents oppose a concrete wall. A Cinder block or rock wall in the traditional sense isn't necessarily the most effective or desirable choice. Some Border Patrol agents told Fox News. Seen through a fence allows agents to anticipate and mobilize prior to illegal immigrants actually climbing or cutting through the fence. Also the wall not geographically feasible in some places.

Starting point is 01:48:13 And current tunnel detecting technology would not allow border patrol agents to find the tunnels in time to stop immigrants from going underneath it. And there's the cost of the wall. Congress set aside 1.2 billion for the 700 mile board of defense in 2006 for the Mexican border, the full length, Trump's 30 foot concrete wall with a 10 foot tunnel barrier, 31.2 billion. You know, over 30 million per mile, according to the best estimate from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Engineers.

Starting point is 01:48:40 And then to maintain it with an increased number of border patrol agents, many, many, many billions more. So what do we do? What's the best immigration policy we can enact? I swear to God, I'm about to wrap up this passive suck. But before I do, let's check in with some time suckers who have offered some very unique immigration perspectives in today's special edition of Time Sucker Updates. Updates, get your time sucker updates. All right time, so let's kick this one off with a story of time, sucker, Jessica Cassias and her husband, Jack.

Starting point is 01:49:13 Jack currently stuck in Mexico due to some current policies. Jessica wrote me saying, okay, so here is our story. My husband and his family came to United States in September, 1994. Jack was 10 years old at the time. They came because Jack had severe asthma and was in and out of the hospital and his parents couldn't find any work. They spent his first 10 years traveling between Alcapoco and Cancun working different jobs.

Starting point is 01:49:36 They finally decided they couldn't remain in Mexico because the lack of available jobs corrupt government and the constant growth of the drug cartel which had brought kidnapping, rape, murder, and violence with it. They managed to get over the border and lived in California for a few years. Once Jack was 16 years old, he moved to Utah and stayed with the family in Provo, and then in West Valley City, Utah. In July of 2004, when he was 20 years old, he was at a party where the cops showed up when

Starting point is 01:50:02 he was caught with less than 30 ounces of marijuana and a pipe. From there, he was charged with the misdemeanor. I met Jack in 2005 when we first met when he was in the process of taking care of his misdemeanor charge. We began a relationship and I knew from the beginning about his status. We got married June 23rd, 2007. Now, how three children, two boys, 10 nine, and a little girl, five, all while having jobs, pain taxes, and not being on government assistance.

Starting point is 01:50:29 In January 2016, we were able to afford the start of the immigration process. One thing I will tell you is that if an illegal immigrant marries a US citizen, they do not get automatic citizenship. Thanks to September 11, 2001, that was abolished. So because Jack was brought here at the age of 10, he could have qualified for the Dreamer Act, but the misdemeanor disqualified him from being able to apply for it. The Dreamers had to have been brought over as a child, graduated high school, and have no criminal record.

Starting point is 01:50:58 So to start our process, we had to submit a 1601A application for provisional unlawful presence waiver. $670 fee. The application basically is jack apologizing for crossing the border illegally, but then gives him permission to remain in the US while we continue this process. We got that approved. Went into our next application, which is a I-130 petition for alien relative, $535 fee. So a lot of people don't understand, or what a lot of people don't understand is that

Starting point is 01:51:27 you go through this process, or in order to go through this process, you have to have someone sponsor you. If you don't have a sponsor, then basically you get kicked out and have to do it from your country of origin. Sponsors can be a spouse, a relative over the age of 21, or an employer. Also what you need to understand is that your sponsor has to qualify to be able to sponsor you. If you don't qualify financially, then sponsor has to qualify to be able to sponsor you. If you don't qualify financially, then you have to find a co-sponsor.

Starting point is 01:51:48 I have a job, but don't financially qualify to sponsor Jack completely. My awesome and amazing brother helped us in co-sponsor Jack. So we submitted Jack's petition and waited. With this petition, if approved, the alien, quote unquote, will have to then go to an interview in their country of origin where they get their fingerprints done, physical exam, vaccinations all done, then go to an interview where they're asked a series of questions. If they're approved, they get,

Starting point is 01:52:12 they wait for a package in the mail in the country of origin. They have to give you an address to have that set to them. Generally, the hotel they're staying in, they get the package crossed back over the border because their green card now has been approved. After having your green card for six months, you can apply for permanent residency, and after having that for five years, you can then apply for citizenship, and everything is awesome. We heard back December 7, 2017, in regards to Jack's I-130, and found out that his interview

Starting point is 01:52:37 date will be January 11, 2018. Jack flew down to CU.Warez. down to CUDAW, Juarez. Genuinely, actually Jessica puts some instructions for me to roll the R and Juarez. I'll just try. Okay, January 7th, so he could get his biometrics, fingerprints, and physical exam done before he went to his interview. I was super fucking pissed when they gave him three vaccinations he didn't need because he was up to date with all of them and it cost us about $350. But the places corrupt his hell and they gave him to him anyways.

Starting point is 01:53:06 He also had to wait five hours in line to get his Mexico criminal record done for the ten years he was in Mexico as a child. He went to his interview called me two hours later to tell me that his green card had been denied due to the misdemeanor charge he obtained thirteen years ago because it had been denied he could not return home. He informed our lawyer of the situation at this point I got him on a flight to Zee what Tanejo, Mexico, where one of his aunts live. He has remained the other's entire time. He managed to find a job where he worked 12 to 13 hours a day, six days a week and got paid $35 a day. I made him quit when there

Starting point is 01:53:40 was an incident in the town he was working with the police slash military were making rounds and had been ambushed by the local cartel in which six officers were killed and then 10 gang members were killed when the officers retaliated. He really has not been able to find work since. While he was while he was remain there, I've been busted in my ass trying to provide for my kids by selling a ton of shit, setting up a go fund me and rent out my basement to financially survive all while trying to get Jack home to us. My lawyer and I gathered more documentation together and submitted a I-601 application

Starting point is 01:54:09 for waiver for grounds of in admissibility 930. This application is basically Jack apologized and forgiveness of his demeanor. I submitted it and was received by immigration March 12. The shitty thing is they are backlogged on this application. The processing time frame currently says it's 18 months, which means they are currently working on applications receive March 2017. So if they remain on this time frame, I estimate they might start working on Jack's application somewhere in June of 2019. If his I-601 gets approved, then we have to submit for another I-130 application.

Starting point is 01:54:46 Pay another fee. Wait for another interview date. All with the possibility of him being denied again because of the timeframe and me being a pain in the ass, Jack and I have contacted several congressmen in the hopes of them helping us. I am currently working with one of the congressmen, one of congressmen Chris Stewart's employees, which if we qualify by proving that I'm an extreme hardship, we can get Jack's I-6 to one waiver possibly expedited, but it's no guarantee he'll actually still be able to come home.

Starting point is 01:55:11 To prove extreme hardship, I have to prove I'm not financially surviving, which I'm not really, and I can't get government assistance either. I was denied. I'm mentally or emotionally distraught. I am seen a social worker who is writing a letter explaining that we're not doing well, as well as explaining the jack is in danger, which with a travel band and pulling news articles in regards to where he's at, yes, really not at all that safe. The thing that pisses me out the most is with all the applications, we have submitted they all require specific documents. They all require the same goddamn documents. All

Starting point is 01:55:42 of them at this point make me a professional tree killer. And not on purpose, it's insane how many copies of my birth certificate marriage license, kids birth certificates, and other extremely sensitive information I've had to send in by mail to immigration. Fortunately, with the help of my family and friends, I managed to fly down to Mexico to C. Jack and March.

Starting point is 01:56:00 Wasn't able to take our kids, like couldn't get their passports because I had to get them notarized and signed permission from Jack to obtain their passports. And it can't be notarized just anywhere has to be notarized at a U.S. Consulate, which is four hours south from where Jack is at in Alcoblaco. Also, keep in mind that the travel ban has been placed on Guerrero, the state Jack is staying in, because the car tell is getting bigger and is now starting to push in the tourist areas. Alcoblaco is currently one because the car tell is getting bigger and is now starting to push into tourist areas. Acapulco is currently one of the most dangerous cities in Mexico.

Starting point is 01:56:29 While in Mexico, my eyes are open and now I have a better understanding as to why we have so many people coming here. Take this into consideration. You have people fleeing a beautiful tropical paradise, risking their lives to come to a country to work pretty shitty jobs, get paid less than minimum wage and call that a better life. I understand there are criminals crossing the border, but the majority of people coming here just want a better life for their family. Jack lived in the US for 23 years, which basically made him a foreigner when he had to go back

Starting point is 01:56:52 to Mexico. He spent the first two months not being allowed to go out by himself without a family member being with him, to prevent him from being robbed, kidnapped or killed, because he doesn't understand the culture and he stuck out like a sore thumb. In the seven months, Jack has been in Mexico. I spent that time trying to remain positive in every weird and shitty situation I've been in as well, as well as educating people by telling our story

Starting point is 01:57:12 and explaining the process we've gone through so far and that our situation isn't nearly as shitty as some. After Jack was denied, he ran into a guy in the airport who also got denied with a 10 year ban. Because when he crossed the border, he carried his toddler daughter over, which is considered human trafficking.

Starting point is 01:57:28 Since that man got a ban, he has to stay in Mexico for 10 years. I don't have to start this process all over again in Mexico in a decade. I have also had to be the rock to keep my family together. I'm good at setting my emotions and feelings aside to remain strong for my family while shit gets done. But it's difficult to have to see our kids

Starting point is 01:57:42 grow through this as well. Our kids and I have the good fortune to be able to go to Mexico in September for two weeks. This will be the first time in almost eight months that my kids have been able to give their dad a hug. I am really sorry for how long this email is by it, but I felt I provide our whole story to you in hopes it will help. There are so many families like mine who have been torn apart for trying to do the right thing and become legal, who have done nothing wrong, but try to make or provide a better life

Starting point is 01:58:04 for themselves and their families, which I've already explained I would do if I was in the same situation. Hail them, not Hail Luciferina, Hail Bull Jangles, Hail the Master of Times, Lieutenant Cummins, to Prophet Reverend Esquire, Hail Triple M, and Hail Queen of the Suck Lindsay. Thanks again for all you do, Jessica Cassias. Wow, wow!

Starting point is 01:58:21 Thank you, Jessica, for enlightening the rest of our community to the shit you've had to go through my god Sorry, you've had to deal with such a mess Sorry, I wasn't able to include everything in your message. You know, I left out some personal stuff that just Didn't didn't pertain to the to the narrative. I'm trying to stay focused on this beast of a suck I wish I could help you wish I could help Jack. Please let us know how this continues to play out Hail Nimrod to you. You incredibly strong and determined meat sack and I know people with things like well, you know, he has a marijuana on his record. Well, I mean, how many of us have sit on our records, man? I'd be fucking out for sure.

Starting point is 01:58:55 Uh, a couple criminal mischief. Thanks. I'm a nice younger. D.Y. Ah, fuck, man. I've talked about, uh, you know, illegal drug use on TV. Um, yeah, it's crazy. Okay you know, illegal drug use on TV. Yeah, it's crazy. Okay, so let's really switch things up. Here from Time Sucker, who is also in immigration and customs enforcement officer, a member of ICE. I have an ICE challenge coin in my little display case in the office, and I'm very proud to have it, man.

Starting point is 01:59:19 A lot of these guys work in their asses off to do the best job they can keeping our border safe. And I'm gonna leave his name out as requested because of his job and the sensitivity around it. Time sucker ice officer someone I spoke into writes insane. Here's my history with immigration customs enforcement ice. I have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice. I'm choosing to leave this out the place he sent his alma mater.

Starting point is 01:59:42 I wanted to be a federal law enforcement officer and ICE was the first agency to hire me. So here I am. I've been with ICE since October 2007. Wow, man, oh wow. My current title is deportation officer. I didn't pick it. She was what they put on my credentials. I'll spare you the specifics.

Starting point is 01:59:55 Just fair to say I've done both field and office jobs within the agency. I would like to qualify all my statements. These are my opinions and not representative of agency policy. So here are my questions and then this time, Tucker's answers. I asked him, as someone actively working in the trenches, so to speak, someone deal with immigration in a very real first-hand way, what do you think our national policy should

Starting point is 02:00:14 be regarding immigration? Who gets in? Who gets kicked out? Do you like our current policy? If not, how would you change it? And he wrote back, I feel like our country was originally based on open immigration policy. People were encouraged to come here and start a new life. I personally think we should encourage people who want to be a law abiding part of our society

Starting point is 02:00:32 to immigrate into our country. So I'm firmly for legal immigration of people from all over the world. Our current policy is almost impossible to handle. It's just financially impossible to remove everyone currently illegally present and those who are entering the country illegally every day. Then I asked him, do you have any personal stories of families who you've had to turn away? They really broke your heart.

Starting point is 02:00:50 Do you have stories of people who got in illegally then committed horrible crimes? And he said, I've seen too many stories of families who have been broken apart. Also terrible criminals, pedophiles, murders, and rapists that I was happy to remove from the streets of this country. That being said, I believe that we need to work on a method to allow law-abiding people

Starting point is 02:01:07 who have illegally entered the country to be legally present and eventually citizens. Maybe have them pay a fine or they go back to the back or they go to the back of the immigration line. I love that thought. Like you got in here illegally, okay, but you've been a law-abiding citizen since or well, not citizen. You've been abiding the law since and working your butt off since you got here. All right, you can stay, but you have to pay some back taxes, you have to pay some fines.

Starting point is 02:01:32 It seems like maybe we can find a balance where we can keep people who are already adding to the economy, but also penalize them enough to deter future immigrants from entering illegally. I asked, do you think the whole, let's build that wall, would actually work? Would a wall keep out immigrants? Should we build a wall? He says, the wall is a pipe dream. It would cost too much and give very few benefits. People are resilient and industrious.

Starting point is 02:01:55 They will find a way over or under a wall. A wall already exists in some places along the southern border and has been shown that people regularly climb over it or build a tunnel under it. A better investment would be a more extensive version of the virtual wall that is currently in place. The virtual wall is a network of drones, balloons, and ground sensors that detect people in aircraft trying to illegally enter the U.S. border and then alerting border patrol. Did not know about the virtual wall.

Starting point is 02:02:19 Man, thank you. Thanks for your expertise, your insights. Thanks for answering my questions. A person I would like to name, but I will not. I appreciate the honesty. Thank you. Thanks for your expertise, your insight. Thanks for answering my questions. Person I would like to name, but I will not. I appreciate the honesty. And now a time for another perspective. A few stories of some hardworking Mexicans who love this country and Mexican Americans and

Starting point is 02:02:36 it had to work really hard to get here and how, you know, some of them or one of them at least in the stories could be kicked out any second. Mexican American time sucker Noah shares these tales with us. I'll leave his last name out because he references some illegal immigrants. I don't want to risk it in trouble. Noah Wright's hey Dan. Okay, well for starters,

Starting point is 02:02:52 I'm third generation Mexican American. My mother's parents are from Chihuahua, Chihuahua, Mexico. My grandfather first decided to come across during the Preserval program. I'm glad I know about that program now. The program started during World War II because the US didn't have enough domestic labor to work to fields. Yep. Anyways, my grandfather worked in the Procero program. I'm glad I know about that program now. The program started during World War II because the US didn't have enough domestic labor to work the fields, yep. Anyways, my grandfather worked in the US

Starting point is 02:03:09 through this program starting in 1947, when he was 18 until he was in his late 20s. I remember him telling us that he and other workers would sleep in the drainage ditches that were perpendicular to the fields, ditches, whether they were moist and full of human feces because there were also the restrooms during the workday. Man, it's fucking sleeping in shit, goddamn. They had to sleep there because it was first

Starting point is 02:03:28 come, first got to work for the next day in the field. They'd sleep in the ditches until the whole field was picked, which could be three or four days, and then they'd move on to the next field. This continued on until it wasn't picking season anymore, then he would go back to Mexico for a couple months, then repeat this process. He immigrated to the US in 1956 with his wife, two daughters, who were younger than four, and an infant son. The only reason he got to immigrate was because his employer, during his later years, of working in the fields liked him and vouched for him and his family. My grandma, my grandma, or mommy, as we called her, and grandpa, or as we called him Poppy, became a citizens of the US in 1998, where eight month old me, a young man, eight month old,

Starting point is 02:04:05 and the fucking 98, gives you guys, my mom accompanied them. Poppy passed away in 2014, but my grandma's still kicking it, I feel a spittin' vinegar. Mommy's still kicking it. She's, I remember when I said kick it, I was serious,

Starting point is 02:04:18 she stays the night once a week, with my, once or twice a week's my parents, my grandparents laid the roots down for their five sons of four daughters, the last child of nine being my mom. Mateo Suntias gave them about 35 grandchildren and many more great and great, great grandchildren. Wow, one of my dad's employees is 35 and has four brothers in the U.S. and six more siblings in Mexico. He first came across in 1992 with the green card to pick fruit in Northern California, Washington and Oregon.

Starting point is 02:04:44 He would work during the picking season, go fruit northern california washington and organ he would work during the picking season go back to max co when there's no longer fruit to be picked you realize he couldn't do this anymore as he had kids and a white defeat to a construction as uncle had a construction company during the time he he it was it was at the offseason so his green card was no longer valid he kept working even though it was expired and somehow he knows to uh... brothers got deported

Starting point is 02:05:04 or to his brothers now when some were to, they have to sign a document saying they will never try to come back in the US. So he and his two brothers signed the document, went back to Mexico and immediately tried coming back because they had no work in Mexico. They came back during the winter through New Mexico. He said it was so cold as feet were numb through his boots. He came back and started employment with my dad. He's still there today. He said, if he doesn't get deported, he'll never leave because his whole family lives here. He pays taxes. His kids go to public school. He works harder than many people born in the US, but just because he wanted to work to help his family, he had to become illegal.

Starting point is 02:05:34 I know he broke the law, but everything isn't black and white, and every day he fears he will be deported. And then he says, stay drunk. No, no, no, wow, no, thank you for those stories, man. God damn, man, I take for granted being able to live and work in this country. I bet a lot of other time suckers do too. So he's didn't forget how hard others have to work for what many of us are just given by birth. The opportunity to provide a good life for yourself

Starting point is 02:05:57 and your family. You sound like you have a wonderful, close-knit family, man, that is beautiful, Noah. Okay, a couple more perspectives, and we're out. This recently reached out to time sucker Angela Bernson Aguilar, first person to ask me to do this topic. If I remember correctly, she and her fiance in another time sucker had their life turned upside down by immigration policies. Angela wrote, Hail Nimrod, most gracious suck master general. And then a response to my question about how are things going with

Starting point is 02:06:23 you guys? She said, yes, he is my husband now. We got married in May. Carlos's family started the immigration process from El Salvador. As soon as his aunt got her citizenship, since she was now a citizen, she could sponsor them. She got hers because she married in American. He was five when the process started. He doesn't remember all the details. His parents had to go through. He does remember as it came closer to time to immigrate, immigrate that to go to the police station, have different background checks done. I had to go to the doctor, get visually inspected by the doctor, you know, the doctor who did the inspection was a Carlos's desk colleague.

Starting point is 02:06:55 The only reason that that doctor was able to test was because he was an American citizen overall the entire process took over 12 years. And he'd already graduated from high school before they were able to actually move here. Apparently that is a relatively short amount of time for Central Americans. A few years ago, after being in the United States for almost 10 years, he applied for a citizenship download of the form, it's like 50 pages, completed everything, mailed it off after a few months, received response to the mail that he would have to re-complete the forms because one page was wrong and out of date, even though he downloaded the forms off their website.

Starting point is 02:07:23 They proceeded, this sounds like my interactions with the fucking government. Man, I wanted to bomb DMV places after dealing with the DMV for the bunch of shit. Up my own fault with my DOI several years ago, but then when I got thrown into the system, oh man, if you've never been thrown into this, it is such a fucking red tape nightmare, where it's like, all right, I gotta be gonna have some policies, but it is made by just bullshit bureaucracy so ridiculously difficult sometimes that I get why people go fucking postal. You said, uh, you had to complete the form again, mail it back anyway. The application cost like 700 bucks. About a year ago You had to go to the immigration center for his biometrics had to take a day off work. Then because he's been waiting so long

Starting point is 02:08:01 had to take a day off work. Then because he's been waiting so long, had to interview again for a citizenship test. His green card expired. He had to go to the consulate in a special stamp in his passport that says he's still legal. Even though his green card has expired because he waited so long for the final portion, it's been almost three years since he started the process. Last week he got the letter in the mail that told him his interview time for the interview for his citizenship test. Yay.

Starting point is 02:08:24 Oh, but though we don't know if that is also the day that he gets to do his oath or not, it's a step closer to that goal. Crazy enough, his story is not as bad as some of his best friend stories. If you'll indulge me, I'll tell you another that is happening right now as well. One of his best friends from college came to the US to go to school at Texas Tech, studies MIS at the business school, got a job at national instruments in Austin right out of school. They were even paying for an immigration lawyer to help him get his H1B visa. He needed an immigration lawyer to complete all the paperwork.

Starting point is 02:08:50 Three times, national instruments applied for it and paid for him to get the H1B visa. Unfortunately, he never got it. He might have, but he was applying right as Trump severely cut the amount of H1B visas that the US would grant. His wife also came to the US on a student visa. However, once they got married, she was legally not allowed to work. She had to get odd jobs to help her, you know, fill her time. A person has two years after graduating from school, either leave or get the H1B visa, since he didn't get his, the company had to move them to Costa Rica in January. They have to stay there for at least two years before they try to come back into the US with national instruments. They moved in January, had their first baby December. I know this is long. Hope it adds a little to the amazing work.

Starting point is 02:09:28 I know you're going to do with this challenging topic. Knowledge in slash and Nimrod, Angela. Wow, thank you, Angela. Thanks for illuminating all that red tape bullshit. That's the style that drives me fucking crazy. There's no way this process should be so complicated and why can't people be grandfathered in? You know, it's like's like again it goes back to this fucking political rhetoric I hate where to appease your base. You're like well now we're done with this shit And it's like yeah, you just fucked over so many people's lives that we're doing things the legal way when you say ah Makes me so angry Someone's not a threat. Why make the process so fucking difficult and confusing?

Starting point is 02:10:01 All right, but as our last time sucker example shows in the updates today, not everyone should get in. All right, there is some danger. This is from spaces where Cody Smiley. Cody says, all hail the glorious master of the suck. It is I, your faithful spaces where Cody Smiley. Thank you, man. I have some unique perspectives on the immigration issue. I want to preface my thoughts by saying

Starting point is 02:10:19 that I have no problems with immigration. I'm even sympathetic to illegal immigration. Like you're not, we're all descendants of immigrants and there's nothing problems with immigration. I'm even sympathetic to illegal immigration. Like or not, we're all descendants of immigrants and there's nothing wrong with that. My dad quit his job at a refinery in about 1992 and leased a 6,600 acre rants out of the radio, Texas. Around five miles of real grand, real grand day. I do say thanks for putting them, oh, or real grand.

Starting point is 02:10:40 Ah, thanks for putting pronunciation options for me, Cody. You got five miles of real grand uh, real grant, real grant. I see real, grand day or real grand river, frontage. Uh, we were one of the most active branches in the entire state. I love how you guys when you send messages, by the way, that you know that I'm, uh, absolutely mentally incompetent when it comes to pronunciation. And you just like spell it out for me with like, you'll put like, it rhymes like this. As if you, as if you were riding a small child

Starting point is 02:11:07 who would just learn to write. And I, yeah, I don't have that part of the brain, so it's very helpful. We are one of the most active rancers in the entire state for legal board of crossings. On numerous occasions, we would have pain hunters, encounter immigrants from Mexico hiding out in our deer blinds

Starting point is 02:11:20 across in the road in front of them while they sat in their deer stance. And that'd be irritating. Most of the encounters were nothing too scary. deer blinds, across in the road in front of them while they sat in their deer stance. And that would be irritating. Most of the encounters were nothing too scary. Um, just people crossing with their families. We would leave tens of gallons of water and lots of non-perishable foods that are main campsite for them to take with them.

Starting point is 02:11:35 As a scrub brush country down there is brutally hot and devoid of water. The real issue we had though was drug smugglers and bandits. Most of them carried absolutely nothing with them, and that was the main distinction between them and the other two groups. The drug smugglers especially always wore a backpack and always carried guns from just a pistol to fully automatic weapons and one scary event. A hunter put up in a deer blind right along the river, sitting in his blind with a group of about 20 men all dressed in black and wearing masks, carrying large backpacks and M16s crossed in front of them. In front of him, fuck! One of the men was only about 30 feet from him.

Starting point is 02:12:06 He turned up and looked right at the hunter and the blind just kept on walking. Did I piss myself? I first saw a group of six or seven men crossed near me while I was carrying a backpack, a radio, my dad. He called the direct line to the head of the border patrol in the radio and in two minutes it was a helicopter over my stand looking for them.

Starting point is 02:12:21 The drug runners even got some hired help. We had down there, we hired an illegal immigrant to stay at the ranch and tend to it while we were away at our other ranches. My dad got a phone call one day saying the Border Patrol had to arrest him because he was hauling drugs in our water trailer. What happened was the cartel came and paid him a visit and told him if he didn't haul those drugs, they're going to kill a spuck in family. My dad testified at his hearing, told the courthouse scary it was out there, and they dropped the

Starting point is 02:12:43 charges against him. The bandits were another thing altogether. They had a camp right across the river from us. We could see them. They could see us more importantly. They can see when we weren't there. Dad wanted to put direct TV out there so the hunters could watch TV during the downtime. That lasted up until we made a trip to the Laredo for groceries.

Starting point is 02:13:00 Another time dad came in and they'd stolen all of the ceiling fans from the trailer on the porch. Okay, so they took the TVs and they took this stuff Another time dad was pulling up into camp at night When he looked at the trailer with the truck's headlights everything seemed okay the lights were off the doors are closed We had an office building to the right of the trailer. We stayed in He got out of the truck unload some things to the office building and when he came back out the door The trailer was wide open the next morning checked and saw their footprints and camp leading down to the river

Starting point is 02:13:24 The biggest theft we had happened with a huge storage pod. We finally got entirely been ripped off of these guys, so we rented a steel storage pod to store literally everything in it when we left. They have a get tips from hunters and the form of crown royal whiskey by the gallon. So he would store it in there, along with that, he had some bow hunting equipment, fishing equipment, all in all about $30,000 worth of stuff. One time when we were gone to Bracketville, our larger 10,000 acre ranch, Hunt and Black Buck, they found a railroad spike, drove it into the side of the pod, used the hanging rack with the winch to get a hole open a little bit more.

Starting point is 02:13:54 Once they got inside, they found out, found an electric truck winch rated for 20,000 pounds and used that to finish the job. And they stole everything out of this. So scary down there that during the off season when hundreds weren't there, we would sleep during the day and shifts and stay up all night. I really don't have an answer for how to fix immigration, but I think if we help Mexico, it might help out with their economy and bring more people out of poverty. Maybe that will help.

Starting point is 02:14:19 I'm sorry this went on long, but I needed to get my stories out to you and to people who may not know how scary things are right now in certain portions of the border. It's so bad. In fact, that as of now, the Border Patrol won't even set foot on our old ranch anymore. Hail Nimrod, Begon, Lucifer, and Nicodi. Wow. Well, thank you, Cody. Man, what a great point you bring up at the end.

Starting point is 02:14:36 What if we worked more closely with Mexico to help strengthen their economy so that our citizens didn't want to leave? I don't know how feasible that is. I know that doesn't take care of the drug cartel situation, but we have drug gangs in our country already. But have we really, ever truly explored that option? Having our southern neighbor be a strong, stable, economically powerful ally, that would be in our best interest, man.

Starting point is 02:14:58 People, you know, you want the countries next to you to be strong allies know, strong allies. You know, healthy allies. Yeah, just another interesting perspective. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to share your stories. Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. We all did. Truly.

Starting point is 02:15:18 Okay, wrapping up here. You know, I didn't really dive into the detention center controversy and current protests, et cetera. That was intentional. I like to focus primarily on the underlying issues more than the visible symptoms. If we can wrap our heads around, immigration come up with some better policies. You know, a lot of the stuff we're dealing with currently, and politically, I think we'll just kind of go away. To me, it feels like we just need to come up with a hell of a lot better solution than just kick them the fuck out. That to me is super ignorant, knee jerk reaction

Starting point is 02:15:50 to political rhetoric. Also ignorant, naive to say, I just let them all in. Let them all in and just pour in however they want. I think after absorbing all of this for weeks, we need to prioritize a legalization process for people who've already made it into this country, form families who are following the law uh... you know it's at the very least following like the major loss

Starting point is 02:16:08 uh... you know should be penalized for sneaking in yet i do think so i think they should uh... finds back taxes garnished wages to get those taxes if necessary to cover those finds you know you should be punished for entering illegally because it's not fair to those who have entered legally uh... from what i've learned mass deportation will not have a good effect on the economy. It will not lower national crime rates, so why do it? Reagan allowed millions of illegal foreign citizenship.

Starting point is 02:16:34 And that was when national anti-immigration feelings were much higher than they are now according to recent polling. Should we build a wall? Fuck no, it's a massive waste of taxpayer money from everything I've seen. Everything I've seen is like, yeah, I mean, full disclosure, I mean, politically, I am against constant government spending. The wall just doesn't seem to be a favorite solution by actual ice and border patrol agents, many of whom listen to this show. And you know what, I trust the boots on the ground

Starting point is 02:17:05 a lot more than fucking political rhetoric. I hope we always have an immigration problem. That's one thing to kind of maybe feel good about this thing just in general. It's great that we have this problem. Why? Because it means our country is fucking awesome. You know, if we didn't have a lot of people

Starting point is 02:17:21 trying to bust in here, you know, that would mean that we're no longer that much better than the places people are trying to bust in here. You know, that would mean that we're no longer that much better than the places people are trying to bust out of. Also, you know, if we're gonna require all this damn paperwork necessary to get in, maybe we should take some of the money that was going to go to building a wall and actually use that money to create more jobs,

Starting point is 02:17:38 more American jobs for people to process the paperwork. So, you know, people who are gonna be awesome citizens can get in here a lot faster. And I'm about done now. My goal was not to say, here's exactly what we need to do. I'm not arrogant enough to think that I can solve this problem in a few weeks worth of research.

Starting point is 02:17:53 You know, form your own opinions and inform them knowing, hopefully, you know, a little more than you did before you listened to this suck. And finally, if you're just mostly worried about change, it's natural to feel that way. If you're worried about, you know, your neighborhood, just not being the same that you remember it. You know, there's kind of good old days mentality.

Starting point is 02:18:12 It's going to be different now. Thanks, immigrants. I get it, but you got to realize change is inevitable. Our melting pot society has always changed. It's always in the process of constant evolution that is part of what makes this great. So stop fighting it as best you can and brace it. Bring some fucking cookies over. Do your new Mexican or Middle Eastern neighbors get to know them? And then if you find out their assholes, yeah, then fuck them. Hey, don't talk shit about them. Just like you do with

Starting point is 02:18:35 a regular asshole neighbor. All right, that's all. Time for some top five takeaways. five takeaways. Number one, the United States is a nation of immigrants. Never forget that when it comes to immigration. Number two, contrary to popular opinion, national violent crime rates do not seem to increase with increases in immigration. Don't believe the hype. Number three, legal immigration does have a negative effect on wages and job availability for our nation's most vulnerable employees, low skilled, poorly educated workers, many

Starting point is 02:19:12 of whom are already in deep poverty, borderline, homelessness. We need not only to focus on legal immigration, we need to focus on businesses hurting the workforce by hiring a legal immigrants and driving down, driving down wages. Number four, fucking spiders. Did you forget about the, the row and oak brown recluse? You probably did. They swam on your face.

Starting point is 02:19:35 They work together in teams to crawl onto your eyeball. Number five, new info, brand new study released today of this recording finds that deporting illegal immigrants may ironically lead to more illegal immigration. I thought that was very interesting. Deportations return criminals to their home countries. Okay, we know that. In some cases, those deported criminals help develop and extend criminal networks used to traffic drugs, weapons, and people.

Starting point is 02:20:03 This in turn increases the frequency of violent crime in those countries, which then sends more people fleeing out of those countries and migrating to the United States. The vast majority of unauthorized migrants and asylum seekers arrived at the US border are escaping widespread violence. Crazy right? The deporting more people back to their countries and increasing violence just kicks more legal immigrants back to this country. Just one more thing to consider when considering immigration policy.

Starting point is 02:20:32 Time suck, tough five takeaway. Immigration sucked. Wow, holy shit, what a monster of a suck. Please share this episode, spread this suck. I think the more people we get thinking about this issue, the faster someone, a lot smarter than I am, is gonna help figure out a solution. Knowledge, spread it, love it, rub your balls on it.

Starting point is 02:20:55 I'll be afraid to discuss anything. Rub your vagina on it. I don't wanna exclude people who don't have balls. Big thanks to the time-subtained high priestess of the suck Harmony Velocamp, Jesse Guardian of Grammar, Dobner, Reverend Dr. Joe Paisley, time suck high priest Alex Dugan, the Biddelixer team, danger brain, space lizard, immersed distributor, access to peril, queen of the suck and boss of damn near everything, Lindsey Cummins.

Starting point is 02:21:16 Next week, a space lizard voted in topic January 22, 1977, Robert Bud Dwyer, pencil of angestate treasure, pulled out of 357 Magnum Revolver during a televised press conference in front of a room full of reporters, put the gun in his mouth and blew his brains out. His suicide was broadcast to thousands in Pennsylvania. Why did a 47 year old career politician and married father or two do that? Scandal. Scandal is why.

Starting point is 02:21:44 A scandal that led to this intensely dramatic end. It's going to be a nice change of pace episode. What led to bud making this decision? You know, why did he do it where he did it? Why the day he did it? All revealed next Monday. And that is all for today, time suckers. Sorry, Swedish listeners.

Starting point is 02:22:01 Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh,, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh,, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh,, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, you, include Swedish listeners, take a page for Mr. Rogers this week, and be nice to your nice neighbors, and keep on sucking! Bye-bye.

Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 102 - Immigration: Fact Versus Fiction

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.