Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 118 - The Alphabet Murders

Episode Date: December 17, 2018

Three young girls were kidnapped, raped, and strangled to death near Rochester, NY in the early 70s. Carmen Colon, Michelle Maenza, and Wanda Walkowicz. Their crimes became referred to as the Alphabet Murders or the Double Initial Killings due to the first letter in their first name matching the first letter in their last name. No one has ever been caught but there are a variety of disturbing suspects including two different serial killers and another serial rapist. Then, in 2011, Joseph Naso was arrested for and then convicted of four additional double initial murders in California. And where is Joseph Naso from? Rochester, NY. Did he commit all seven killings? And possibly others? Find out today in a "I can't believe how many dirtbags were living in Rochester in the 1970s" edition of Timesuck! Today's Timesuck is brought to you by: The Jim Jefferies Show podcast - listen to new episodes every Wednesday on your favorite podcast app! The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) - Drive sober or get pulled over!! The Great Courses Plus! For a limited time only, you’ll get a FULL MONTH for FREE when you sign up at TheGreatCoursesPLUS.com/TIMESUCK Robinhood! Get a FREE stock like Apple, Ford, or Sprint to help build your portfolio when you sign up at TIMESUCK.robinhood.com Becky Lusk GoFund: https://www.gofundme.com/the-tale-of-the-very-bad-no-good-broken-uterus Todd Larsen's wife's breast cancer GoFund: https://www.gofundme.com/help-her-fight-breast-cancer Want to try out Discord!?! Click HERE! Watch the Suck on Youtube: https://youtu.be/L4l2bI0ub0w Merch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ Want to try out Discord!?! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG, @timesuckpodcast on Twitter, and www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna be a Space Lizard? We're over 3500 strong! Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast Sign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits!

On November 16th, 1971, 10-year-old Carmen Cologne disappeared from church-filled New York. Little village, just 50 miles west downtown Rochester, sent you part of the suburbs. She was last seen climbing into a car of an unknown suspect, sometime between 4.25, 5.00 pm outside of Jack's drugs. A little pharmacy after dropping out for prescription requests for her step sister, 5.30 pm, the girl matching Carmen's description, seeing naked from the waist down, witnessed attempting to run away from a car on the side of interstate 490 West near the church feel exit.

She's waving her arms frantically, screaming for help as cars barrel past during rush hour. A car is rapidly backing up to her. And then whoever was driving that car catches up to her and then whoever was driving that car catches up to her and takes her away. Several motorists see all of this go down and yet no one comes to her rescue. No one stops and the days before cell phones, no one calls the police, no one calls the police when they make it back home after seeing all of this happen. No one, not one single person makes a single call about the girl they

had seen running half naked and afraid away from some strangers car until three days later. After her photograph appears in the areas two newspapers, the Democrat and Chronicle and the Times Union, when the two papers announced that Carmen's body had just been discovered after her brutal rape and murder. Even then, only a few individuals out of the hundreds of cars estimated to have seen this go down off of I 490 come forward to describe what they've seen. One said that while he thought it was odd that a young girl would be running half naked towards traffic on a busy highway, he was in the passing lane of heavy traffic when he

saw her and thought for sure that someone behind him would stop to see if something was wrong. Another insistent he thought the car, he saw it back and out towards his child, we just allowing her to go out and use the bathroom. Uh huh. Sure, because that's how kids use the bathroom to take all their clothes off. Some people thought it was perhaps just a family squabble. There's none of their business. You know, again, yeah, right.

Just a normal argument involving a half naked child. Others said they were unsure of what they'd seen either because it was too much of a blur and the drizzle as they sped past with their minds on other things. Or because it was already pretty dark and the crescent moon yielded precious little light on an already surreal scene. So those individuals put the disturbed image out of their minds and just continued on with their lives, how morally convenient. Carmen would be the first victim and what would become known as the alphabet murders aka the double initial murders. C C C in this case Carmen

Cologne Churchville two more murders of both initials matching the first letter of the town they were taken from would follow and then a terrible suspect list would emerge a list that would end up including not one but two convicted serial killers with ties to the area a different known area serial rapist a family member and more also an additional set of double initial murders would occur in California including another victim also named Carmen Colone. How strange is that? The second Carmen Colone's 22 year old body would be found August 13th, 1978,

near little port Costa, California, just south of Lajo, north of Oakland. And the man charged for this Carmen's murder and four others also had strong ties to Rochester. He was born there, grew up there, regularly traveled back to the area at the time of the murders Coincidence to the same man committed at least seven different double initial murders Or did one man commit the first killings and then inspire a copycat killer to commit the rest or did multiple men commit the three upstate New York murders

Is America loaded with child rapists and or child killing dirtbacks? America loaded with child rapists and or child killing dirt backs. Lot of disturbing questions to look into today. All of this and more explored on today's dark and disturbing true crime edition of Time Suck. Happy Monday Time S suckers. He'll never out. He'll lose to be a praiseable jangles. Praise triple M. Can you believe 2018 is almost over?

Just a few weeks left. What a year. What a crazy or one of the craziest and best years of my life. I hope it's been good to you. If it's been horrible, then you know what? Fuck 2018. You'll be happy to know that 2018 will be dead just a few weeks.

2019 will be born and we can begin a new. I'm Dan Cummins, sweet meat master, suck master, undisputed champion of Chiquitilo's Royal Rumble. Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. Elite master Hoover of the glorious kingdom of Suckdom, and you are humble servant to Nimrod, and you are listening to Time Suck. You remember the call of the curious, welcome.

Recording as usual in the Cortalain Idaho Suck, Dungy with Reverend Dr. Joe Motherfucking Paisley, sitting in a fancy computer, putting all those radio skills, music skills to work. Did you know that Joe is also lead vocalist songwriter for Metal Band Maretta? Have you checked out Maretta? You're listening on Spotify, Apple Music Pandora,

other places that involve technology and music, joining forces in an unholy union of screaming and metal. You listen to him shred, I recommend it. I saw him in Spokane a few weeks ago and metal. You can listen to him shred. I recommend it. I saw him and spoke in a few weeks ago, and they're a great band, seriously. And I'm just saying that because he's actually listening right now to all this happen. You didn't know this was going to happen. Joe says that he does all the work, and the rest of the guys don't have talent, and

are just along for the ride. I do think that's weird. Because when I watched them live, I thought it was like a team effort. He said that's not true. He said they're just, you know, disposed, I think he used the phrase disposable puppets and he's pulling the strings. I'm kidding. His bandmates actually listen to the show as well

and they're good, man. They're really good, man. It was great. You ready for some true crime today, though? Suckers? I almost called you guys dirt bags. I don't even talk about dirt bags. You're not the dirt bags.

We're gonna be talking about an alarming amount of dirt bags, though. Maybe some of your dirt bags, I can't control who listens. We're gonna suck on all of them after a few announcements and some sponsors. Today's time suck. Brought to you once again by the Jim Jeffery Show podcast. Jim, if you don't know, one of the best comics working today. edgy smart, a combo. I thoroughly enjoy. And the Jim Jeffery show and comedy central covers the most controversial issues of today through

Jim's distinctive brand of comedy and global point of view. And the Jim Jeffery show podcast is a is a slightly more podcasty version of this already great show. So you can listen each week is Jim Jeffery's co host for a shot sit down with friends and guests discuss news politics All the things Jim couldn't wouldn't and shouldn't say on TV Subscribe now to the Jim Jeffries show podcast listen to new episodes every Wednesday on your favorite podcast app Time suck also brought to you today by Nitzah NHTSA the National Highway Traffic Safety Commission Everyone knows about the risks of you know driving drunk. I certainly do. I have a DUI NHTSA, the National Highway Traffic Safety Commission.

Everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. I certainly do. I have a DUI. You may have heard my story about it on my here this album several years back. I've joked about what I went through, excuse me, after I was arrested, but drunk driving certainly not funny. You can get into crash like I did, or people can get hurt or killed because of your terrible choices, which I could have easily done.

You could get arrested, you could incur huge legal expenses, possibly even lose your job. Drunk driving is why I haven't done shows in Canada for years. Very hard for me to get into Canada. Still cannot go to Canada for a vacation because of my record. And you know, and deserved. We all know the consequences of driving drunk,

but one thing's for sure, you're wrong. If you think it's no big deal, drive sober, or get pulled over time suckers. Laughing my mistake, but don't make my mistake yourself. Thanks for continuing reviews, everybody. Always appreciated rating and reviewing time suck, wherever you listen is the easiest way to support and spread the suck.

It only takes a few moments and it means a lot to us here. Working hard to try and make this show better. We appreciate any support you can give. And so many of you are so supportive. Very thankful. Thank you all. It's all the new listeners popping over from the Rezudo show in St. Louis.

Thank you, Rezudo on crew for showing so much love to time. So thank you, Rezudo for actually listening to the show Beat and Time Sucker. That was unexpected and much appreciated. You guys are very, very good at what you do. Lots of new tour dates up at Dancomas.tv now. Also, Texas suckers, we are at, we, we have now added two Texas shows. That was the most anger

over where we weren't able to get going back to Houston and Dallas and, and then the last city we're trying to lock up a Chicago. and I think that's it because otherwise I will go insane from being gone too much. I got already got to bring the kids out to some of these dates. This too much travel. We're going a lot of fun place to start off with Providence Bridgeport Albany, New Brunswick, Madison, Philadelphia Salt Lake City Birmingham at Lanna National Huntsville, Naples Miami, Cleveland, on, on, on, on. A lot of dates up,

called the Happy Murdered Tour and Facebook and Instagram, not happy about the title or the images that I've been putting on social media. You can check it out, Dan Cummins comedy. I can't boost them. They will not let me spread them to other people because apparently that violates some kind of code of conduct at Facebook and Instagram,

which is fucking ridiculous. You can promote any violent movie you want to, but I have a picture of me in blood, and I'm just telling jokes about theoretical violence and suddenly I'm the asshole who can't promote himself. Even though you know, you could do a movie where a thousand people fucking die violently, and you could put your trailer on Facebook

and you're like, ha ha, yay! Let's spread this. Ah! So I'll be, I'm sure I'll be making fun of them pretty much all of 2019 for the ridiculous policies. Check it out. I hope you can come out to some shows, sometimes I'm doing some shows and small venues, and it's not a lot of tickets in a few of the cities.

So, based on last year, they will sell it in advance, and if you don't get them in advance, you won't go. Yeah, so thanks for gobbling up. Also, a lot of the fun merch in the store We got a lot diverse range of products now and also oh Daniel from St. Louis You left your challenge coin at the show at helium the one that you brought and I signed I gave it to a staff member named Shoranda so Shoranda at the helium comedy club and say knows about knows about your coin, contact the club, get it back. And I think that's all, I think that's all the stuff

before I can get into the meat of today's show. So thanks for that allowing me to do some housekeeping. Now it's time to get into the alphabet murders, heel nimra. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ A lot of different ground to cover today. This is not just a straightforward narrative time, so I'm gonna take a peek into the lives of two different convicted serial killers, a waste of oxygen known as Joseph Nassau.

That's one of them. Joseph convicted in Marin County, August 13, 2013, for four double initial killings that took place in California between 1977 and 1994. A four year old inmate, AR-9737. Joseph Nassau sits on death row in San Quentin today, the man who for decades kept disturbing rape diary or rape journal. Prosecutors called it for what seems to be many, many heinous crimes he was never tried for, never convicted of. He will likely die of natural cause excuse me died natural causes uh...

it's in california is not executed prisoner in the last thirteen years due to a federal moratorium in place in two thousand six on the death penalty that rules that the uh... the death penalty in california is cruel unusual based on the lethal injection method i strongly disagree. When you hear later in this podcast about what Joseph did, what got him on death throw, I think lethal injection seems far too humane.

Oh, you might feel some pain in the last few minutes. Fuck that guy. Tie him to a chair, letting him be eaten alive by rats. All of a suck subject 51, the ice man, Richard Polish savage, Kuklincki's method where he killed one of his victims that way in a cave, tied him to a Charlotte rat's item. I think that might be too good for Joseph. And Joseph isn't the only serial killer we're talking about today. Another suspect in some of the alphabet murders is Kenneth Bianchi, one of the hillside

stranglers convicted of kidnapping, raping, torturing, murdering, 10 women and girls between the ages of 12 and 28 with his cousin, Angelo Bueno, Obono, around Los Angeles, 1977 and 1978 and dumping their bodies on the hill sides northeast of Los Angeles. And then he was convicted of killing two additional women by himself in Washington State, January 11, 1979, before being apprehended the next day January 12th, currently serving a term of life in prison at Washington State, Penitentiary and Wall of Wall of Washington, only a few hours from the suck dungeon. He'll be eligible for parole in 2025 to the age of 73.

I don't like it. He may have also killed three young girls around Rochester, New York, where he, like Joseph, was born and raised. And there are a few other disturbing suspects, and we're going to look at them soon. I'm going to have to do today's timeline a little bit. Definitely today can have to break it up into two. Well chronologically, look at the lives of each of the three Rochester area alphabet murders. Then look at the lives of various suspects.

Then go into Joseph's life, and then get into Ken's life, the hillside stranglers, you know, is a suck unto itself. So let's get started with today's first of two time suck timelines. And also a special thanks to Sherry Farne's worth author of the alphabet killer, the true story of the double initial murders, hard to find a lot of information about this on the web. Most of what I found that was really good info came from this one book. All right, let's get into it.

Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time, suck time line. Carmen Cologne was born in Rochester, New York in 1961 to justiano and Gui-O-Nina, Gui-O-Nina, and then spent the first half of her life in her parents' native Puerto Rico with a family returned to Rochester. Carmen struggled to learn English and was placed in special education classes at John William School Number Five, like countless other students who spoke Spanish as the first language because the school's the time lacked the resources to accommodate these students. Despite this hurdle, Carmen had an upbeat personality.

The principal of her school, Dr. Alice Young, later told the press that Carmen was a sweet little angel. When Carmen and her family returned from Puerto Rico in the mid-1960s, Carmen's father, Justiniano, abandoned the family, and then Justiniano's brother Miguel moved in with Giel Nena and became her common law husband and Carmen's default stepdad The old uncle stepdad situation always a red flag always assigned that there's a fair amount of dysfunction your family tree Uncle stepdad is gonna show up later when we talk about suspects. Of course. Yes Uncle stepdad doesn't seem like a good dude. And I'm guessing I don't have any stats. I'm guessing Uncle stepdad's are probably bad people more often than non-uncle stepdads, at least in the modern era. Way back when you know you married your

dead brother's wife because she needed help with a homestead. And there was no other men in the area for her to for her to bed. No other women for you to choose. Carmen had five brothers and sisters and the six kids floated back and forth between Guiana, Guyanina's home and her paternal grandparents' home, which was just a 10 minute walk or three minute drive away. By the fall of 1971, 10 year old Carmen living with her grandparents,

where she had her own bedroom, a little more space, and then on November 16th, 1971, sometime around 4 p.m. Carmen's mother, Guyanina, strode into her father-in-law's home to see her daughter Carmen. She needed Carmen to go get some medicine for her nine-month old baby step sister. Not sure why she couldn't go get it herself.

I mean, she just walked from her parents' house, you know, or I'm sorry, from her house Guilinna to her parents' house, why couldn't she walk a little further to the pharmacy, especially when they lived in a sketchy-ass neighborhood. I know I, I don't really have any of the specific details of what was going on in the family that it's a, so maybe there was very good reasons, but it just seems like, huh? Okay. That's maybe now what I would do, but okay. They lived in a, they lived in a shitty neighborhood full of drug addicts, various vagrants and

criminals wandering the streets. So Carmen's Roman Catholic grandparents would not normally let Carmen run errands alone, but on this terrible day, Carmen's grandfather Felix, he intended to accompany her, but then unbeknownst to him, Carmen begged her mom and her mom agreed to let her go by herself. And you know, you need to give in. And then when Felix realized the union had gave in, she was already gone. And that's that's unfortunate tremendously here because Carmen balanced out the door around 425 PM into the cold November air within a few minutes. She'd reach Jack's drugs. You know that little pharmacy about two blocks away, little strip

mall. She walked up at the counter, handed the pharmacist, Jack Corbin, who the family knew an empty bottle along with her mother's Medicaid card and Corbin told her to take about half an hour to get everything ready. So Carmen said she would be back then stepped out. And then a witness later reported seeing a child who looked like Carmen climbing into a car at dinner time that day near Jack's drugs, but but observed no struggle whatsoever couldn't recall to make her model of the car by 5 p.m. Carmen hadn't returned to either grandparents home. So sorry, excuse me to either her grandparents home or her either grandparents home. So, sorry, excuse me, to either her grandparents home

or her mother's home. So now the family's worried, and her stepdad, Uncle Stepdad goes out to find her. Few minutes later, she'd be seen half naked, frantically waving her arms, screaming for help by the freeway like I mentioned earlier, just desperately hoping somebody would save her. And it's just important to note that this,

you know, this, people witnessing this, they witness it after Uncle Stepdad goes out to get her. Because this will come up later with a suspect list that maybe she initially was okay. And then maybe Uncle Stepdad got a hold of her and then was okay. By 7 p.m., the Cologne family, I'd call the Rochester Police Department and various friends and relatives were combing the streets in search of Carmen, the police and methodical door to door search of the entire Bullshead neighborhood where the families lived. Forty officers strong looking for little Carmen. Handful of witnesses admitted to seeing Carmen that night and they gave

very descriptions of the vehicle backing up torture. One saying it looked just like the brand new car 37 year year old magwell cologne uncle stepdad just purchased f okay dirtbag alert uh... magwell was immediately made the prime suspect in the case tips continue uh... to filter into this day some even from cologne family members who who do

insist that they think that uh... uncle stepdad was the one who did it on november eighteenth two days after carmen's appearance fifteen year old mark alan thirteen year old Mark Allen, 13 year old James Gillen riding their bikes in Riga just outside the city of Churchville. This is all outside the city Rochester. They spot what they thought initially was a plastic broken doll crumpled against a boulder laying on a ditch on the side of Stern's road, a quiet, seldom traveled to the side street. Closer inspection reveals the body of an actual child

wearing nothing but a sweater, blue socks, and white sneakers. Just like the girl that had been seen on I-490 West, it was 4.30 pm exactly 48 hours since Carmen had left Jack's drugs. The media ran headlines for weeks about no one doing a damn thing to help little Carmen Cologne. Headlines saying stuff like no one stopped.

Apathy abounds as motorists ignore girl. Nobody stopped to save Carmen. Girl is slain after motorist ignore her pleading for help. Hundreds saw Carmen. No motorist stopped just a few of the headlines. Social psychologists kind of explain this phenomena. Social psychologists Victor Harris working at the University of Buffalo, New York at the time, offered a theory as to why no one stopped based on research he was doing. He said this was what happens, a classic case of what's known as the bystander effect. A social psychological occurrence, also known as crowd apathy, or the diffusion of responsibility, also as Genevieve's syndrome. This phenomenon occurs when individuals witness an emergency,

but are reluctant to help if other people are present. The more witnesses, there are two of crisis, the less likely any one individual will be to step in and offer assistance because everyone is falsely assuming that somebody else will take care of it or that there is no emergency if others around could handle it if needed.

People just think if help is warranted, you know, somebody else is gonna get to it. We can just truly be just a bunch of dumb, hurt animals sometimes. And fold this closure, I am guilty of this on a smaller level, you know, you know, kind of, for sure, I mean, I've driven past people sitting in their car on the side of the road with their hazards on,

but only when they're sitting in their car, you know, I mean, I guess I do just assume that if something serious is going like somebody else will help them. And also, I just see that they're not actively expressing other than hazards, which just can mean like, hey, don't run into me. I just assume that if they're not waving their arms frantically, it must not be that serious. Yeah, so I've definitely, though, never, though, never, never just written on by when someone is, you know, out there screaming and shouting, asking for help. Okay, so don't be a heartless prick, you know, stop, stop if people need help, but maybe,

but maybe, you know, also if someone's waving you down and they're, and they're, it seemed like an obvious, a car jacker, maybe, maybe don't stop there, because that can be another angle of it. Sometimes people out of self preservation don't want to stop and help because they're worried about what might happen to them in some cases i i i do understand the rationale there for sure uh... but let's talk about this effect more before carman cologne the most famous famous recent example of the bystander effect had been the stabbing death of kiddie genoves in queens new york in nineteen sixty four and that's where

the name genoves syndrome in Queens, New York in 1964. And that's where the name Genovese syndrome comes from. 28 year old, Kitty Genovese was attacked by a knife-wielding man. I remember studying this in psychology classes years ago. She returned home from work one cold morning on March 13th, 1964. Several neighbors had heard her screams as the mystery attacker began to repeatedly stab her in the back. Some even actually witnessed, you know, actually saw her be stabbed, get only once, spoke up and yelled for the attacker to stop, which they did briefly.

But then they didn't come out and check on Kitty right away. The attacker ran away. She staggered alone towards the door for apartment, collapsed outside the door, and then the attacker came back, continued to rape her, stabbed her, according to some reports, for up to a half an hour more, like the total attack time, and then fled. And then a neighbor, Sophia Farah, finally did come out there and check on her after the attacker had left. All in all, estimated that 12 to 38 people saw or heard the lethal attacks.

And while two people did later claim to call the police, the police have no record of those calls. And the public was outraged, and then the New York Times published an article two weeks later called 38 who saw murder, didn't call the police. And there is some, some things that are disputing some of the facts of that now.

So a little bit of controversy of how exact that happened. Everybody knows that it did happen, that she did die. People did hear people did not go to help. I guess there's disputes about how many people may have tried to call authorities or not call or how long the attack went on. But it's also not an isolated incident. It's not like this is the only time we have to refer before this Carmen Cologne story of this happening. There's much more recent is the only time we have to refer before this Carmen Cologne story of this happening.

And there's much more recent examples, including one that happened, you know, fairly near me, Spokane 2009, the Riverfront Park rape, on 2009, a 27 year old woman was brutally raped by a 53 year old transient named Terry Lee and broad daylight, middle of the day, Riverfront Park, a park I've been to many times, hundreds of witnesses, including many children either watched or listen to her screams either sawd happen or heard her screams for help noted anything no one called authorities i want to assume somebody else would help

uh... there was an example in two thousand nine also to get a lot more much more nation-wide publicity i remember hearing about this in the news uh... when a fifteen-year-old girl uh... leaving her high school homecoming dance in richman california which is in the Bay Area near San Francisco was brutally gang raped and beaten by several young men in just front of tons of witnesses. The attack left the young girl in critical condition, you know, for more than two hours. Some 20 witnesses either watched or took part in a violent sexual assault,

although word quickly spread about what was happening outside on school property, not a single individual called 911. You know, and they do have cell phones now. Nobody did anything to help the girl until her battered unconscious body was later found under a bench. Fellow student Manuel or Teget was the instigator of the attack received a 32 year prison sentence in the plea deal. He had ripped off her clothes, punched and kicked her in the head, raped her, encouraged others to rape her, and was also convicted of raping her with a foreign object.

And up to 20 people watched and didn't bother to call the police. Powerful reminder, to find out what the fuck is going on when you think someone's in trouble. All right, I mean, you are, you are an accessory to the crime. If you just blow it off like, ah, it's not my problem. No, it is your fucking problem, because you heard about it. You know, when you hear screaming and moaning from the other side of the wall in an apartment building, I don't know, I guess you can kind of write up here,

like, ah, maybe they're having just rough, consensual sex. And maybe they are. You know, there's a lot of pervs out there. That's okay. Not the wrongs, you want to do it loud and proud. You know, orgasms, more intense, when you throw caution to the wind,

you know, really get into it, really let yourself go. I get it. Hard to finish if you're worrying about the neighbors, you got to focus. You know, when you hear that, you know, you could think like, oh, screams of no, a role plane, some are, some people do enjoy a rape fantasy. Not my thing, but if you're, but if you're both into it, why should I try and make you feel guilty about a consensual act? But what if something much worse is going on? You need to at least find out. What if it's not role-playing? What if it is rape?

Nothing wrong with knocking on the door and killing a boner, okay? It'll come back. It'll come back. You know, because that's the worst case. You ruin somebody's sex. Actually, worst case would be you get dragged in to an actual crime and then something about happens to you. But that's highly unlikely.

That is highly unlikely. Realistically worst case, you know, somebody else dies because you don't do anything. Somebody else gets, you know, really messed up because you don't do anything. So, so call the police, check on it. You know, don't just ignore it. And if you see somebody half naked,

especially a child, frantically waving their arms for help, fuck and stop and help them. Call the police immediately. If you're packing some heat, put that heat in your hand, and you're ready to pull that trigger, not kidding, man. Some dirt bag puts you in a URM situation,

put the fucking dirt bag down. Those two teen boys, I know, I get the stuff, definitely riles me. After those two teen boys, fine Carmen's body, 48 hours out, it just disappears her young body, removed her autopsy. And the next day, her coat is found in a culvert, about 300 feet from her body, where it looked as if it had been tossed out,

maybe out of a fleeing car, maybe as an afterthought. 11 days later, her green pants are found, and your service road roughly a mile before exit three. You know, right where witnesses have seen the car and seen the girl running, discovery of the pants, led to the theory that she, uh, that Carmen had either interrupted a rape herself like a rape attempt with somebody else or that she had already been raped before she made a run for it. Man, fighting them and killing both jangles, the tax, they can, they can destroy.

Uh, Monroe County Medical Examiner, Dr. John Edland conducted the autopsy, determined that Carmen Habin raped, beaten, strangled to death. Severe bruising, what appeared to be human fingernail scratches covered her slim little body. He also found that she had suffered fractures to her skull and the area around her neck had been gravely injured during the ferocious attack. Police investigate Carmen's crime thoroughly in April 1972. By the end of April, police had questioned roughly 1,000 people,

hundreds of possible suspects, including numerous known sex offenders in the area had been investigated in the first few weeks after its appearance alone. And then when no arrests have been made, the police moved in, a handful of investigators kept their case, oh sorry, not moved in, I was like, well moved in, moved on. Everywhere, when Noah Ress had been made,

police just died, they moved into new apartments, started new lives for themselves, because they're that frustrated. No, they moved on, sadly to other cases. A handful of investigators kept the case officially open, but with no new clues, no significant leads, other crimes took priority. Most of the original investigators seem to still believe that Uncle Stepdad did it. And when it comes to like family versus non-family and like these sex type crimes, you

know, they just say 90% of child molesters are acquainted with their victim. You know, not sure if that's a scary number or a comforting one. I guess the odds of a stranger molesting your kid are, you kid are pretty small. Way smaller than you or someone you know doing it, and if you know, you're not gonna do it. I guess the greatest odds of it, somebody in your immediate family are circle of friends. I guess acquaintances could do it.

They say that 90% or of that 90%, 30% of relatives, fathers, stepfathers, brothers, uncles, grandfather, cousins, or rest of people like babysitters, neighbors, friends, only 10%. Yeah, again, are strangers, man. I expect that number to be so much higher. But I guess you know, these kind of crimes usually crimes of opportunity and abuse of trust and kids, you know, trust the people they know.

More on Carmen suspects after we break down the other two New York alphabet murders. Time to go back again to 1961 Carmen Cologne and this next victim Wanda Vallicovic were both born that year Wanda was born on August 4th 1961 to Joyce and Richard Vallicovic and Rochester poor working class upstate New Yorkers 1967 Richard dies of a heart attack at the age of 30 when When Juan is just six years old and her little sister Rita is five and the already poor family pushed down into true poverty. 1968 Joyce moves herself and her two girls

into an upstairs apartment in a brown two story clabbered house at one, one three two one and a half. One of those dash two, Avenue D, is the address, so-so Rochester neighborhood at best. One, it was a red-headed blue-eyed freckle face kid, who by 11 was mature for her years.

She was 65-pound tomboy, who a love plane outside with friends and stand up as late as mom would allow. And also kind of like love being a little money mom herself. One, his family survived barely. On the few $100 Joyce received monthly from her deceased husband, social security benefits. And maybe they also struggle because Joyce loved to frequent the bars in the neighborhood and often took her girls into the taverns that allowed her to bring kids in while she drank. So sadly, both of these first two girls not raised in the best of family environments.

Joyce gave birth to a third daughter, Michelle, shortly after they moved into the new neighborhood and then Peyton, Jr. Rainey moved in and became Joyce's common law husband. Stepdad referred to as junior. Step up from uncle stepdad, but probably not ideal. If you're a junior and you're a great guy, good for you. It just seems like a weird nickname for a grown man. Hi, I'm junior and this is my buddy, baby. This is my buddy, fetus.

This is a tiny wimp. We got micro peen hanging in there in the back. Uh, it was like, what the, uh, it's just, I don't know. It was a very weird, if I, like, I'm almost a junior, my middle age, but I wouldn't, I don't know. I just wouldn't go by junior. Anyway, anyway, April 2nd, 1973, it's a cold, wet, gray day in Rochester. Wanda's mood is sunny. She's racing home from school late on the corner of Avenue A in

Conkney because she's got the best report card she's ever had. Even though she reportedly missed 57 days of school that year, 57. No mention of catastrophic illness, but 57 days clearly did not have a stable home life. But her fifth grade teacher said that she was an average student, a little above average in reading, which I think is pretty exceptional when you're missing that much school. Also reported to be again, happy, personal. She was well liked. I wanted to teach her, but later tell the media that she could sense that wanted to have too many responsibilities at home. Code for her parents did not have their shit together. Crazy, junior,

junior's not running a tight ship, get the fuck outta here. But none of this seemed to even bother Wanda. In fact, she seemed to bask in the role of little mom or mini adult, you know, that's what wanted murder and vascular later caller. She was a street smart kid, seemingly capable of taking care of herself, helping to care for her mothers and sisters by the time

they were 10 and 11 wanting her little sister Rita, both become accustomed to interrupting their play to run more grown up type errands from mom. You know, I'm sure there was stuff. I didn't say this, but I get to get to vibe with a lot of like, hey, let's go get your mom some smokes, walking alone through your sketchy neighborhood. Sometimes they walk together, sometimes they go to their friend, usually wanted they'll like to go alone if it was her turn. Necessities were needed the Monday evening of April 2nd, 1973.

The family pets were out of food. Two-year-old Michelle was out of diapers and they needed basics like bread and milk for dinner. So they send the kid instead of mom going, and again, I just, I don't understand the logic here. Like why can't the kid not walk around to sketch his neighborhood and stay home and why can't mom go get a stuff for self and

I My gut tells me because his mom Probably not the running for a lot of mom with a year awards based on everything I hear about this story And I don't have more ammunition about that here in a second So sends one down she puts her color in book down. She heads out. This nearby deli And she just passed her school. Just three blocks away. She's very familiar with the route to get there. Took only four minutes.

Dressed in the blue and white checker dressed, white socks, sneakers she wanted to school that day. The little red head of Avenue D is the Democrat and Chronicle will call her, walk down the street, arrive at the hillside neighborhood grocer, doodlesly picks up every item on her list, two quarts milk, package disposable diapers, bread, cupcake, soup, tuna fish, dog food, cat food. Bagger, William, Van, Orden, crams everything into one overloaded paper sack.

So she'd only need a single bag to carry home and store clerk, Richard, Chetche, Jots down total of $8.02 and Joyce's brown charge book. And then Chetche says that everything seemed normal. Says all I want to say to him was I'm in a hurry, which wasn't on Liker. There's a lot of times when your mom told her to hurry back home. That it was a normal thing for her to say. Store employees, two male customers, a third individual standing outside the store, all C1 to leave hillside carrying the bulky bag of groceries between 515, 530 PM. She's heading north on Conti, heading towards home. The wallet co-witches were

regulars at hillside and Joyce knew exactly how long it would take, you know, her daughter to walk to and from the store, pick up groceries, all that stuff. So in the amount of time, it's elapsed. And she's not back. Want to send the other daughter, read it at the store to see what the hold up was. Again, fucking weird. One daughter's, one daughter's not here. So who do I send another daughter?

Why can't, what's going on with you? Why can't you go? But Rita's friend, 12 year old friend, Seen joins her at 747 2 and a half hours since she had last year daughter, the other daughter and friend can't find anybody, can't find her, can't find one. It's a Joyce calls a Rochester police department to report one to missing and then she heads to the deli herself to talk to the employees. Okay, so a couple hours later, she's like, I don't know, maybe I should go talk to somebody. By 815, a massive search and rescues underway,

police and neighbors were searching back to our Zalai's railroad tracks, the entire area between the tracks and Avenue A. While talking to the missing persons report, police, this is what makes me very angry towards Juan de his mom. And I know it's not her fault. I know, I know, let me rephrase that.

I know that she is not the person who does something to her daughters specifically, but check this shit out. Please are told of a close encounter. Wanda and a nine year old friend had two nights earlier two nights before she goes missing a Strange man near some fucking railroad tracks a block away around 10 p.m. Is literally hiding behind some bushes like a creep out of a shitty after school movie he jumps out of the bushes uh... chases them runs after them that's a runaway uh... they don't see his face but you do get a glimpse of his shoes and uh... with some buckles on them they give the description uh... to the police find he is a sex offender unknown sex offenders in the area joys is asked by police issues if she was aware of this incident, she reluctantly said that she was.

So she knows that two nights earlier, a known sex offender had been hiding in the bushes and then Chase has her daughter and then like her 11-year-old, excuse me, 10-year-old daughter. And then sends her out the next day, what the fuck, lady? Come on, junior! What are you doing uh ten year old daughter gets yeah chase man ah

yep so i don't know that this is this whole like this this mother does remind me of like a character from like shameless like a somebody written Frank Gallagher would date and again i feel terrible for what happened to a daughter can't imagine losing child that way but come on man, be a parent. One of the first things Lindsey and I did in our current neighborhood before you've moved in was check out the local police registries

for known sex offenders. There aren't any in our neighborhood like right around us. But there are several few blocks away that I would like to beat unconscious. I'd like to throw their bodies in the perfect world in the back of my truck, drive them out to the woods and perform some wild west vigilante justice on them. Yeah, yeah, time to die, motherfuckers. Having dig some graves, strip naked, you know, show them some pictures of kids and whoever

gets a boner gets dumped in the dirt. How about that little test? How about that little row-sharch boner test? I do hate pedophiles, man, low to the low to me. Humanity's bottom feeders. Grabbing an innocent child, abusing them, killing them in some cases. And it's always that, oh, but I can't help it.

I have these urges that I can't control. All right, maybe, okay, I'm not saying you don't. I can get it, but what if I have the urge to kill people with your urge? Maybe I can't control that. I can't actually, because I don't wanna go to prison. If only I could be some kind of dexter. If only I could just get away with it. But I don't think I could.

I probably dropped my driver license or something. When the kids are with us down in LA, before we moved up to court of LA, I never let them play outside unsupervised ever. And I'm not saying I'm some perfect parent, because I'm certainly not. I'm not at all. Not even close, not even the ballpark. But yeah, I'm not saying I'm some perfect parents, I'm certainly not, I'm not at all. Not even close, not even the ballpark.

But yeah, I wouldn't, I'm like, no, I've heard too many stories like this. No way, man, no thanks. I would take him to a park, and even sometimes there if I'd look at my phone and then pop up and I couldn't see him, immediate panic. And I would jump up and start yelling until I'd found him.

Cold sweat pops out immediately. Anyway, back to Wanda, not trying to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, I'm not gonna name names. I know I can't shout about this right now, but there have been certain relatives and family friends I've had over the years who I have made it very clear my kids are never ever to be alone with. And these people have never been convicted of anything. They just gave me the creeps. Just my gut, just based on some circumstance in their life, I'm like, nope. Just my gut, just based on some circumstance in their life, I'm like, nope, uh-uh. They never get to be around the kids alone, ever, ever. And I check it with my kids way too much about it too.

Like so much that they just kinda like, oh Jesus, Dad, now when I talk, I'm like, you guys know, no one's supposed to touch your private parts. Actually they're a little older now, so I don't even say private parts. I just say, I'm like, no one's supposed to touch a dick. Not your balls, not your butt, especially not your butt hole, not your vagina,

not your boobs, none of that, none of that gets touched. Why anybody, at all, by anybody at all. You other than yourself, you can touch it fine. No one else gets to touch it. Maybe a doctor, but that's it, but seriously, I'm like, no, I tell them to, I'm like, if somebody tells you that, it'll hurt somebody, it'll hurt you. If you find out, I'm like, no, and I tell them to, I'm like, if somebody tells you that, you know, they'll hurt somebody, they'll hurt you.

If you find out, I swear I tell my kids to the point Lindsey eventually has to step up. I'm like, I swear to God, I swear to God I'll kill him. You, just, this not true, we have guns. I will fucking, I will murder them. I will put them down. And that's when Lindsey's like, oh, all right, okay, that's enough. Okay, now you're just, you're getting weird.

You're not gonna go to prison, I'm like, but I'm like, yeah, but I will. I tell my kids I will go to prison. It's worth it in that circumstance. Ah, okay. Now we're finally back for real. April 3rd, 1973. This is a day should have been a time of celebration

in the Valacovic household. It was Wanda's little sister Rita's 10th birthday. She's starting to 10 now, but you can imagine no one celebrating because nobody can find Wanda at 1015 that morning before authorities had arrived at the house bearing the bad news. Joyce here's over a police scanner that a young girl's body had been located in a rest area in Webster. She knows immediately it's Wanda. 15 minutes earlier, New York State trooper Thomas Zimmer on routine patrol along New York State route 104 in Webster. And

he's pulled onto the approach ramp of the old uh... randacoit bay area or excuse me randacoit bay rest area just before the bridge that crosses over the bay he'd spot it something white on the hillside uh... he saw wanders bear lakes she was laying face down the cold bearing ground lifeless in the in the dress she had warned a school to previous day uh... she'd been found dead in Webster and that's the the the initials again, Wanda, Volakovich, which because it's Polish and they don't know

how words work, is actually spelled to W found dead in Webster. Dr. John Edland, the same medical examiner who performed Carmen dot-tobsi determined that Wanda too had been sexually assaulted before being strangled to death with an object, perhaps a smooth belt, unlike Carmen, who was left nigger from the waist down, wanted to at least still had on her dress, but some sources say that it appears that she was, she was redressed after being assaulted. Stomach contents revealed she'd eaten custard, but then two hours of her death, even though she had left home with no cash, and it not purchased such an item at the hillside, Delhi, who, bought her, is custard.

One can only imagine it was a killer. Force of 50 officers, this time to dispatch, or dispatch to Canvas, the Volakovich neighborhood, as well as the location where the body was found, methodically going door to door, to check for suspects,

see if anybody had seen anything suspicious, no luck. Even though investigators initially felt confident that the neighborhood was too populated for someone not to have seen the person who had taken her. Two detectives from the Monroe County Sheriff's Office, two who had investigated the Carmen Cologne murder are assigned to Juan de's case. On the chance that the two homicides are in fact connected.

After all, these girls are nearly the same age, both have been abducted while running late afternoon errands for their mothers, both are found by the side of the road, raped and strangled to death. Authorities spent the first few days bringing in men, including some sex offenders living in the area who had been questioned regarding Carmen's murder, spent the first few days bringing in men, including some sex offenders living in the area who had been questioned

regarding Carmen's murder. And the elderly man was brought in some old creep who had offered Wanda and her friend a dime for kisses and a playground. Two years earlier, creepy, ass-old fuck. Some ex-con who'd attacked a young girl in late 1960s was also a question. Family and friends who knew Wanda said she was too

street smart to be lured in by a stranger that she knew better. Our playmates said she would have put up a fight if someone had tried to force her into the vehicle. But, I mean, I guess based on these assumptions, investigators considered it was a strong possibility that Wanda knew her killer and got in a willing with him. I don't know though. I just think like, no, she was under 70 pounds.

She wouldn't have been that hard for a grown-ass man to force into a car or van or whatever. You know, and there is this thing where a lot of a situational type, child molesters, a lot of times when it is a stranger, it is this kind of the situational dictated. It's a crime of opportunity. These people feel like they have an immediate need that they feel must be satisfied. They're like rabbit dogs. And then maybe Wanda was just walking by.

And she was last seen by by some school grounds, which is not worthy because places like schools, playgrounds are magnets for these kind of predators. Street, smart or not, you know, one of these people could have easily just forced her into a vehicle. Four days after Wanda was abducted, just minutes from home, loved ones are saying goodbye and burying her. The day after Wanda's body was found the the Gannett Rochester newspapers offered a reward of $2,500 for information leading the apprehension of the killer.

And as was the case with Carmen Cologne, the secret witness line was established, which scholars could identify themselves remain anonymous. A week after the suspect witness program had been implemented, it received nearly 400 phone tips. And letters also were sent into the police. The citizens for a decent community CDC initially offered a reward of $1,000, an amount increased to $6,000 when the Rochester Auto Dealers Association

contributed five grand to the fund. God bless those people. Hail Nimrod. By April 11th, just a week after one is murder, a murder rewards grand to the fund. God bless those people. Hail Nimrod. By April 11th, just a week after one is murder, murder rewards leading to the killers. I did any climb to $9,951. Equivalent to roughly 50 grand today. On April 25th, the CDC sponsored five billboards

offering $10,000 reward for information leading to the killer. They'd actually also done that with Carmen's case. An anonymous caller came in on the secret witness line, claiming to have seen a man, forced a red-haired girl into a car at the corner of Conkney Avenue, who wanted to the streets before 5.30 and 6 p.m. Unfortunately, when police appealed to the first anonymous tips, who had allegedly saw this happen, couldn't get him to call back. And no part of me understands it.

No part of me understands it. Why wouldn't you call in when you see that happen initially? And then when you hear about this and then you do call in and then you're not like you they're putting out more like ads And the paper saying like hey, please call back and you're just like nah Man, fuck that anonymous collar Please receive word that a couple of 10 year old girls that they've been approached on Saturday two days before Wanda Disappeared by a man about 30 years old, went a long black coat, tried to get him into a 1971 Ford LTD black on top, white on the bottom.

This man had a black beard, a mole on his forehead, according to the Democrat and Chronicle, the incident took place on the other side of the Genesee River, directly west of where Wanda had disappeared. But please were sadly unable to locate this additional mystery purve and how many fucking purfs are in this neighborhood, by the way? A month later, an article in the Times Union called, uh, probe into Wanda slaying could be nearing dead end, said that after one of the most exhaustive murder investigations in Monroe County history, Wanda's killer was still a looting law enforcement officials, and they just didn't have the leads to follow up on or enough evidence to really charge anyone or to continue to thoroughly pursue this

investigation. So, you know, just try to dwindle down, and then nine months after this article, a third double initial area child will go missing. And we're going to talk about that disappearance immediately after a word from one of today's sponsors. Immediately after a word from one of today's sponsors, TimeSuck has brought to you again by the great courses plus, Hale Nimrod. The great courses plus lets you view the world through different perspectives, continually surprise yourself with new discoveries,

kind of like TimeSuck. Get unlimited access to learn from people who are passionate about their areas of expertise, whether it's history or ancient Egypt, astronomy, forensic history, brain hacks, photography, forensic history, brain hacks, photography, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Watch or listen anytime with the great courses plus app. I have been enjoying via the app and other one of their brand new courses, the philosophy of humor, by very interesting to me as a stand-up comic.

This course gives great insight into what makes this laugh and why the relationship between humor and tragedy, what makes a joke a joke. It even looks at whether or not a sense of humor is necessary to be fully human. I think so. I've met some so-called humans who read strongly as humorless robots when I've spoken to them. They have 24 different lectures on humor. I just watched Lecture 3, The Science of Laughter presented by Professor Stephen Gimble, PhD in Philosophy from John Hopkins.

He's been given the Bernace L. Thompson Distinguished Teaching Award while teaching John Hopkins. And in one of his many lectures He talks about why we laugh like like why do we make this noise? Why do we make what do we make this noise? Gire Well, what about this one? All right What about that super annoying one? Ha ha ha! Why would you make that noise?

Well, Professor Gimble discusses the way different mechanisms listen eight laughter and how different stimuli trigger those mechanisms. Understanding slapstick humor? That actually originates in a different part of the brain than understanding sarcasm. Like, you can have a head injury

and no longer care for slapstick humor but totally still get sarcasm or vice versa. It's fine that fast-tating. And he just talks about how the ability to understand humor develops as we age, because as the brain develops, it focuses on different things, and it can be messed with in different ways to elicit laughter like a... Because it originates all after originates initially from the old lizard brain, parts of our brain, you know,

used to let kind of chimps know that we're okay. Being tricked, we get it, we're not mad, we're not going to beat anyone else to death. You know, it's a very ancient form of communication in its basis. You used to express and join me to understand the incongruity or absurdity of what someone is doing. And then check this out from like six months to a year when we're little babies. We mentally established something called object permanence. That's the ability to recognize that something out of sight is not gone. It's just somewhere else.

And that's when the peekaboo game becomes real fun. That's why nine mental babies love playing peekaboo. They know you're not gone. You're just being a silly goose hiding. They don't understand how. They understand the game and they find it funny. By two, though, we're over that joke, sold news, tacky tacky You know now we're able to understand the expected uses of objects, you know what you're supposed to do with things Which is why if you tell a two-year-old you're gonna go to their belly button and put their applesauce away

You're killing your crushing with the two-year-old your comedy god and And all that's explained much better and in much more detail by Professor Gimble. And if you're curious, you can listen for free. Now is the perfect time to get started with the great courses plus for a limited time only. You get a full month of free courses lectures when you sign up at the great courses plus dot com slash time suck. Start your free month today only at the great courses plus dot com slash time suck. That's the great courses plus dot com slash time suck link

on the time suck app in his days episode description. And now for the third victims tale in the upstate New York double initial killings, like Wanda and Carmen, 11 year old Michelle, my unza was on a late afternoon errand for her mother when she was abducted. And November 28, 1962, Michelle, my unza is born to parents Christopher and Carolyn and Rochester. They had two sons already, Stephen and Angelo, nearly a decade later, Christopher and Carolyn would separate. And Michelle's two brothers would live with their father at 21 Hall Street and Rochester.

And Michelle remained with her mother at 25 Webster Crescent, along with their two younger sisters Marie, who is eight and baby Christine. At times, Union article dated November 27th, 1973, Christopher described 11-year-old Michelle as quiet, happy-go-lucky, friendly, but emotionally immature compared to other girls her age. And she was sadly the victim of relentless bullying at school. She was teased, picked on by kids her own age, because she was overweight, and she preferred

to hang out with younger kids who just accepted her, you know, how she was and looked up to her School staff told the Times, June and December 1973 that Michelle was an average student who fell into the normal range But is making satisfactory product progress or was making satisfactory progress Carolyn was a protective mother She always had her three daughters with her wherever she went according to neighbors on the dead end Webs your crescent whether she was going to the laundry a store or a friend's house. November 26, 1973, Carolyn arrives at school at dismissal time to pick up her daughter,

except that eight year old Marie and the neighbor girl, they did come out so I pick up her daughters, but 11 year old, but she's told that 11 year old daughter Michelle has to stay. So Carolyn then makes a decision. She would regret for the rest of her life. She walks back home with just the baby and the two younger girls,

confident Michelle who would turn 11 the next day would be fine walking home alone. She's just one time. I feel so bad for this poor mom. She, to me, sounds like a hardworking, protectable lady doing her best. She did walk to her daughter's school to get her this not even that far away,

you know, but she does do it every day. But then she finds out, you know, they don't call for some reason this school to tell her that her daughter has attention. And then she, so she has to walk back alone, just a few blocks, you know, nothing. I mean, just this one time. And then the worst happens. Michelle had been having a day that was going, you know, fast from, from bad to worse, statements made recently on blogs by former students from Michelle's class. Later stayed that she'd been unfairly kept at school for detention. Some girl was bullying her and she kind of gave it back through a little bit and then they both got in trouble. I've always hated that.

I always feel like that's a lazy way to do things as a teacher. Maybe there's more to it that I don't understand, but if you know one kid's being a fucking asshole, and then the other kid eventually is like, go fuck yourself. I don't think the kid who says something at the end of the being torn, man, is you getting any trouble. That's like, I've always told my kids,

I'm like, I don't give a shit what your school system says. If some kid's hit you, you fucking pop them back as hard as you got damn wanting their faces. You know what? I will go to court for you, if necessary, to defend your right to defend yourself. Anyway, I can route up again.

I'll talk about all those kids stuff. So between 3.05, 3.15 pm, Michelle finally leaves school 33, headstand, Webster Avenue alone. Normally, Michelle would walk past her uncle's gas station, the intersection of Webster Avenue and Melville Street, just a few hundred feet from her doorstep, not that day because she was a sweet, thoughtful little girl on a mission to locate her mother's purse that had been left at the super saver store

and good men plasered the previous Saturday, man. These are all sad, but this one, especially gets me for some reason, you know, she's a good kid, she's getting picked on school, she's gonna do something nice for her hard worker mom. She does return home by five that afternoon, her distressed mom goes to the House for Neighbor. The woman said Carolyn could hardly talk. She was crying so hard. It's a

worried 540 PM. Carolyn calls the Rochester Police Department to report her daughter is missing. Friends and family assured the authorities that Michelle had never run away before. Carolyn says she's unaware of anything that would be going on in her life, that would make her want to run away. According to director of health and physical education for the Rochester City Schools, Nicholas Zona, all children, fourth through sixth grade, have been required to watch a movie called Stranger Beware,

Michelle knew not to willingly get in a car or to walk off with a stranger. So had she gone with somebody, she knew. Or again, like we kind of talked about earlier, had somebody just been able to overpower her. By now, various agencies working together knew the drill. Another young girl's gone missing foul plays against the suspect that of course, this girl she has hazel eyes, shoulder lengths, dark brown hair with bangs. She was last seen in the vicinity of Webster Avenue, Goodman Plaza wearing this purple coat. Silver trim,

black boots went to her knees, purple slacks with zigzag pattern. Her description is broadcast hourly over police radios and patrol cars. Continues to be broadcast throughout the night. North East, part of the city is immediately in pain, stakingly search with special emphasis on Michelle's neighborhood, adored adores search. Again, commences continues throughout the night. That yields no results again. Police investigators, they spread out. Canvas parking lots, parks, deserted areas, fucking everywhere. Can't find anything.

Dawn hits still no leads. Family and authorities are becoming obviously less optimistic that she's gonna be found alive and okay. And then Carolyn, Mayanza collapses and is rushed to the hospital. She has basically a nervous breakdown. She placed under sedation while the police continued her manhunt at about 9.15 a.m. on November 28. Two days after Michelle, Manza, had last been seen alive. Her badly bruised, fully closed body was found dumped in a ditch in a rural area of Wayne County, about 17 miles east of where she had last been seen. Eugene Vandewall, the fire chief of the Walworth volunteer fire department, told police he was driving east on Eddie Road and route to four, seven, six Eddie Road to pick up Richard Stocker so they could look at a new fire truck.

Spots Michelle's crumpled body in the grass by the north side of the road, 70 yards meter section of Mill Road and with Mill Road in the little town of Macedon, little town 18 miles southeast of downtown Rochester, just road in the little town of uh... massacred on little little town at the mile southeast of downtown Rochester just laying in ditch uh... so again m m m michelle and uh... found and massacred on like one of a shell of the redress but several snap fast was on a shirt had been torn in the assault according to

the corner her coat was found in a ditch half mile away with her body have been dumped uh... you know that means the killer probably either probably either left a coat at the scene of the crime before dumping the body elsewhere or noticed it still in his vehicle after disposing of the body and tossed out the windows, he drove away. Kind of similar how to a Carmen stuff had been displaced and discarded. Similarities between the three murders prompted murder investigators to confess to the press after Michelle's body was found that there was a very strong possibility that one individual had committed all these crimes.

This killer was targeting pre-pubescent girls, abducting them, abducting them, excuse me, from the streets and broad daylight, violating them, strangling them, leaving their bodies on the side of roads with little attempt to hide their bodies. Either they didn't give a shit, whether or not they were found, or they actually wanted their bodies to be found. Maybe they got off on a scare in the public or out smart authorities, you know, kind of like the zodiac killer did. Michelle's official cause of death was asphyxiation by strangulation.

And she'd been brutally raped before being murdered just like Carmen and Wanda. She reported in the Democrat and Chronicle that Michelle's body bore marks about the face, neck and one arm, appeared to be the, appeared to the garretting device. Perhaps a thin belt had been used to strangle both Michelle and Wanda, but Michelle's neck had a clean red line circling it, as well as bruising the indicator, the killer also used both his, both of his hands. Bruises were found on upper arms and elsewhere, based on the remains of a cheeseburger found in her stomach, investigator edler, or the corner, excuse me, Edland determined that Michelle had eaten within an hour and a half of her death.

So a strong suspect does emerge, promising lead does come forth from one of Michelle's young friends. She said that she was on her way to another girl's house on Monday afternoon, saw Michelle walking down Akram in towards Goodman Plaza when the girl left her friend's house and headed back towards Webster. She saw Michelle pass by riding in the front seat of a beige car that was speeding out of Goodman Plaza toward Webster Avenue. That car nearly collided with another vehicle that was turning from Webster into Ackerman

or onto Ackerman. The witness told her mother what she'd seen when she got home, but that was before Michelle had been reported missing. So neither thought much of it again until news of her murder broke several days later. And then a local firefighter, Dennis Termini, who had had a car just like the one seen by Michelle's young friend and the other day, the intersection that day, right down to the dent became a suspect,

a little bit later. It was suspect that after he committed suicide a month later, more on him and a bit. December 5th, 27 community organizations sponsored a public meeting at the East Area High School, a few blocks from where she disappeared to offer parents ideas on how to keep their kids safe, how to brainstorm to keep the neighborhood safe. On December 6th, the time unions published a plea to the killer on behalf of the community

called Open Letter to Slayer, turn yourself in. Soon a man came forward with information about a strange encounter. He had with a man on State Route 350, nearby, according to an article called Man Wanted Have You Seen Him. In the times union of December 4th, a motorist recalled that on the previous Monday around dusk, the same day Michelle was abducted, he saw a beige car. Again with that beige car pulled over on the side of route 350 near Eddie Road, less than a mile from where her body would be found.

The man slowed to offer assistance, believing the car had a flat tire and said that when he approached the idle vehicle, the guy standing beside it grabbed a young quote unquote, chubby girl, stepped in front of her. So she was out of view, then moved towards the front of his car, shielding the girl behind him, stepped in front of the license plate,

is it to block that too from view? The motorist said that the man took a step towards him with his fist raised menacingly, at which point the motorist rolled up his window and drove off. That's not good. You can drive a little ways away, but why don't you stay in the area? Why don't you try and track him down by your car? Something, wave down somebody else to help, make some commotion. The suspect was said to be a slender white male about six feet tall, perhaps a bit more, had clear skin, medium complexion, dark, wavy hair, shorter on the sides and the back, but came down to the bridge of his nose and the front.

Investigators scoured neighborhoods, criminal databases for a man fitting that description. Total number of investigators on the case was increased to more than 50, 15 of whom were assigned full time. The day after sketch, this new suspect appeared in the papers, a woman called and told police she had seen a man who looked just like the one in the sketch, taken a hamburger to a young girl in a car at Carol's driving restaurant at the panorama Plaza and panfield about 4.30 pm on the day Michelle vanished. This peeks everybody's interest because, you know, if you're if you're recalled, medical examiner, you know, said that cheeseburger

had been eaten within an hour and a half of her death. Also important was the location because the distance between the panorama plaza to the spot where the route 350 witnessed all suspicious man with a girl was very minimal. The killer could have taken New York 441 East 10 miles and simply turned right in New York 350 and then driven two more miles.

December 11th authorities thought they had finally gotten a big break in the case when a motorist would approach the vehicle on route through 50, called the Sheriff's Department early that week to report that he had seen the same man again. And this time he did get a license plate number. The suspect who resided in lions or lions was in his 20s unemployed and divorced, had a criminal record, although no sex offenses. And this guy couldn't recall what he'd been doing on the evening of November 26th, but when

police searched his home with his permission, they found nothing incriminating. And then finally, records of long-distance phone calls have been made from that man's house at 2.18 pm and 3.15 pm on that day. The day the Michelle disappeared revealed he could not have been involved in her abduction. He also voluntarily took a polygraph test that he passed and was eliminated as a suspect. Damn it. January 1974, a detective told the Times Union that although there were still 15 minutes signed to the case full time, the investigation into the rape and murder of Michelle, my unzuh, was dying a slow death. Their most promising lead had gotten nowhere. Some pieces

shit, some real life monster got in a way with at least three child rape and murders around Rochester, New York. Okay, a lot of info. Now let's pop out of this initial timeline. Look at some of the suspects before jumping into the next series of murders and looking at the man Joseph Nassau who was convicted for those crimes. A man convicted of killing in California who did again have strong ties to the Rochester area. Good job, soldier. You made it back, barely. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so looking at these suspects, some of this is gonna bring us back into aspects of the crimes we just talked about. Let's kick off our suspect discussion by taking a look at dirt bag number one. What's behind dirt bag number one door? Oh, fucking dirt bag. Talk about local fire

fighter, Dennis, Termini, abusing locals trust in the generally wonderful and heroic firefighters like a true sociopath. What this guy was doing on New Year's Day 1974, less than five weeks after the murder of Michelle Monsa, 25 year old Rochester firefighter Dennis Termini sat in somebody else's car, shot himself in the head with the 45 caliber automatic pistol and good fucking riddance. The reasoning killed himself made him prime suspect in the alphabet, Merce shortly before blowing his brains out. Dennis had tried to abduct a teenage girl at gunpoint as she left her hotel. I almost said shortly after, which would make this story so much weirder, right? Like shortly after blowing his brains out and dying, he abducted two girls as a fucking Pito zombie. That makes us real weird.

No, right before he had blown his brains out, he had tried to abduct a teenage girl at gunpoint and she left her hotel. But then he let her go when she couldn't, he couldn't stop her from screaming. He was afraid she was attracting too much attention and then he let her go. He flees on foot before someone,

you know, we're coming grab him, I guess. But he still didn't call it a day. Instead, he just thought, I guess, who else can I violate? Who else can I give a lifetime of trust issues and nightmares to? Who else can I possibly impregnate with my demon seat? I guess I could go home, you know, to stop.

But if I did that, then who would get held hostage or rape today? Ah, man, now I can't have that happen. I gotta honor the plans that I made. Yeah, he, he, he, he lets one woman go only to immediately, brazenly search for another young girl. He grabs a second girl, 18 years old, and she's walking alone through a northeast neighborhood of Rochester, forces her at gunpoint into a garage

and demands that she immediately undress. By the time she gets down to just a bra on panties, the police show up thanks to a neighbor who would call them after seeing him grab this girl. Uh, finally, someone's fucking call the place in the story, uh, seeing the flashing lights and hearing the sirens, Germany, uh, once again, fleas on foot. This time, he finds a vehicle parked in his driveway, climbs the sidewalks adores, uh, surnas, uh, surnas, I was trying to combine two words. Uh, Sergeant Ernest Morph responds to the 911 call regarding

Germany grabbing that second girl, along with patrolman Lindy Johnson, he chased the term, or Termini, through several backyards jumping over fences, tracing his footsteps through the newly fallen snow until he finally cornered Termini in that lock car where he took his gun out and pointed at his head. Sergeant Morph called for backup from a portable radio. While they're waiting for backup to arrive, that's when Termini pulled the trigger. Senate bullet

through his right temple took his own life. And it was soon determined that Termini had been active much, much, very active prior to that day. He was a sexual predator known locally by police as the garage rapist, a man who had eluded Rochester police for years. And there's so many dirt bags in this story today. There was a string-under reported rapes are, who knows how many women this guy actually raped? After a suicide, Termini immediately became a course prime suspect in the alphabet rape murders. He lived at 159 blocks,

our box street, only a two minute drive from where Michelle was last seen. Investigators determined that he had also stocked the very same neighborhoods that Carmen and Wanda had lived in. He operated both on foot and by car, was known to have abducted at least one of his many victims and driven her to a secluded location before raping her. However, there were two very important things about Termini's crimes. It strayed

from the pattern of the double initial murders. His 14 known victims, all of them were older, all of them, you know, were much older than those girls and all of them had been left alive after they've been raped. Still, a lot of circumstantial evidence points at Termini. You know, again, you've been in the neighborhoods, you know, when they disappeared, also his vehicle, mass description of the one seen barreling around the corner, the intersection of Ackerman Street and Webstrap Avenue, right down to the color of that beige, right down to that distinctive dent described by witnesses. There was also a map found in his car

uh... the highlighted Wayne county which is where michelle's body was found uh... and there was a firefighter uniform in the truck which could fit that theory that the girls didn't work for some where they were uh... you know somebody who gained their trust abducted them you know kids tend to trust firefighters decades later arm with this information more of the Monroe County Sheriff's Department obtained a search warrant to exume his body for the purpose of searching his gravesite, casket, and remains for obtained DNA sample to compare to evidence found at the double initial crime scenes.

On January 4th, 2007, his body was disinterred from the frozen soil, taking to the medical examiner's office for recovery of tissue and bone samples. And then seven weeks later results the DNA testing came back indicating that Termini was not the rapeist slayer of at least Wanda Valley, Covish. He is still a suspect in the two other murders because while authorities had taken Seaman from Wanda's crime scene to compare with his DNA, the Seaman collected the scenes of Michelle and Carmen's death. Unfortunately, are no longer available. They were either lost over the years or the initial samples deteriorated.

Crime reports do not specify. So unless someone else is convicted of those murders, he will remain a suspect. Now let's talk about dirt bag number two. Dirt bag number two is all Uncle Step Dad. Uncle Step Dad, McGwell, of course it is. Uncle Step Dad's always suspects on some level

slightly less suspicious than grandpa dads or uncle cousins uh... and quain some ago told investigators uncle stepdad showed up at his apartment shortly after billboards have been put up regarding carman's disappearance and told him that quote he needed to get out of the country quick ding ding ding ding that's a bit of a red flag that's a tat that's a bit of a red flag. That's

a tat. That's a wee bit suspicious. Uh, McGwell was brought in for question regarding the rape of murder, uh, rape and murder, excuse me, to Carmen Cologne on March 28th, 1972, uh, less than four months after Carmen was assaulted and killed. And, uh, and then a few days later, uh, he takes off to, uh, uh, Puerto Rico. Investigators then follow him. And Uncle Stepdad literally hides the jungle for the entire six days. Investigators look for him in Puerto Rico. That's very suspicious to me.

Yeah. Oh, and I wrote that. I had to have written that down wrong on my notes. A few days after the actual like, everything gets reported, then he takes off. He's brought in for questioning months later. I'll tell you why. Yeah, because the way I put it in my nose here, did that make any sense.

No. They want to bring him initially. He flees. Then they get a months later. Rochester takes it out. I have to trick him to bring him in finally. They have to go to Puerto Rico. They can't find him there.

They spread a rumor through some local papers out there that say that they have brought in his mother for questioning, and they're going to detain her until he comes in himself, which I can't do. That's illegal. But, uh, but he falls for it. And he flies back to Rochester, like, please, please let my mom go. Uh, and then they're like, got your dummy. Ah, Uncle Steph Dad's never known for being the sharpest knife in the drawer. Uh, Uncle Steph Dad maintains his innocence throughout the six hour interrogation manages to pass light a texture test taking a state police headquarters in the central New York town of whoo, this is the trough one Canon, Canon, DeGwa, Canon DeGwa and investigators, even though

light detectors have since proven to be faulty, they had no choice but to release him. They release him despite a witness describing a vehicle matching McGuill's backing up to Carmen on the side of the road. Remember the freeway that day that she was kidnapped and killed and they had to release him despite the fact that he had also this is so suspicious. Thoroughly cleaned his car inside and out, including the trunk right before investigators searched it. You know how many times I have thoroughly cleaned the trunk of any car I've ever owned?

Fucking zero. You know why? times I have thoroughly claimed the trunk of any car I've ever owned? Fucking zero. You know why? trunk So I'm not gonna be I'm not gonna put people in there. So it doesn't need to be that clean I've kind of lightly, you know ran a vacuum over it here and there when I've you know I don't know had something like got some dirt or something back there, but Like thoroughly clean the trunk right after this when you're suspect ding ding ding guilty Yeah, this dude looks guilty as hell man

Especially when you consider the possibility that this murder doesn't have to be related to either of the two other outfit murders You know DNA evidence hasn't definitively linked all three killings. He could have killed a stepdad neat Or his stepdaughter You know slash niece Carmen and someone else could have killed other two girls. Some investigators also believe there is a deep-seated secret in the Cologne family regarding Uncle Stepdad and his involvement in Carmen's life and death.

There's a suspicious that he may have molested her for a while before she died. They say that they've had a lot of trouble getting straight answers out of a lot of his family members over the years. Complicated McGuell even further as a suspect is his death 1991. This is what makes me feel even that much more comfortable at making fun of this piece of shit. On February 17, 1991, nearly 25 years after Carmen has killed McGuell, shoots himself to death in a house on radio street after assaulting Carmen's mother, Guilanina, Gui Anina, and Gui Anina's

brother Juan Melendez, with the same gun during a domestic dispute. When police arrived, Miguel demanded that he be shot. He wanted that suicide by cop situation. They don't give in to those demands, then he shoots himself just right then and there. Taking a lot of unanswered questions to grave with him. And a lot of investigators, including one of the lead investigators, Nick D'Rosa and Carmen's disappearance and murder are certain that Miguel killed Carmen. Sadly, a lot of the crucial physical evidence collected

the scene of Carmen's murder as well as subsequent two have been lost destroyed over the years, which makes all this stuff that much more complicated to investigate now. And like I said earlier, there are only semen samples from, you know, want his case and not the other two now. Okay, another suspect, another primary suspect in the Carmen Cologne case, is dirt back number three, James Barber. Another Monroe County Sheriff Investigator, Sergeant Robert Russello found a connection. We he learned that Barber, another Monroe County Sheriff Investigator, Sergeant Robert Russello, found

a connection. We he learned that Barber had already been arrested from less than a young girl in the past and was the time of Carmen's murder, wanted for assaulting and satanizing a 15 year old girl in Ohio. And this piece of shit happened to be in the Bullshead neighborhood where he had social ties when she was abducted and killed. He was working in the area, and this is really suspicious to me.

He had penciled in his hours on his time card, the day Carmen disappeared, rather than letting the machine punch the information like it normally did. Weird to have that aberration on the day she was missing, especially when the person who this has aberration is somebody who has committed sex crimes on youths before. Even more suspiciously, he left his job without notice right after her body was found.

And then apparently left the Rochester area entirely, left it so quickly that investigators weren't able to get him in for questioning. Didn't even take his belongings with him when he left, left town that fast. And I guess there wasn't quite enough evidence to dictate having him arrested and extra added and brought back from another state. So he was, he was never questioned about the alphabet murders. So so many think that he did it. Many think that James Barber could have killed all three girls.

But Uncle Stepdad, Fire Marshal Raype, Salademi Barber, aren't the only three complete creeps to be strong suspects in the killings of these three nests of young girls. And this, this suspect list is the most disturbing part of this whole thing to me. Just how many dirtbags are in this story? So much crime in the suck. Dirt, dirt bag number four is the fucking dirtiest of the dirt bags we've, we've discussed now. Just dirt on dirt on dirt. This is one half of the hillside stranglers convicted serial rapists and killer Kenneth Bianchi, who I mentioned earlier in the show, Kenneth Alessio Bianionci was born

to a young alcoholic single mother prostitute in Rochester on May 22, 1951. So by Rochester's standard, he is born into a stable upper middle class household. As an infant, he should have been drowned. I think we can all agree on that now. Unfortunately, no one was braving out the time to do what was clearly necessary instead sadly he was raised to adulthood he was adopted by frances and nica list uh... bionci raised in rochester attended holy family catholic school

and then is adopted mother devils the fact that his real mother who been a prostitute to him at some point early in his adolescence and it didn't take a while uh... this disclosure may be a defining moment in life he grappled with his uh... early impression of females, hating his mom, you know, for what she had been, what she had done with her life, and apparently didn't get along with his adopted mom that well and hated her, also hated her for telling him about his original mom.

His father, Francis, would later reveal that Canada terrible temper was a child and was a compulsive liar to boot. So I tell you, should have drowned him. But you know, some people are weirdly lacking in conviction about stuff like that. I think, you know, in the politically correct, kind of snowflakey world we live in, a lot of people are just weird about drowning babies. They're just like, I don't know, but what if it's not a bad baby? I'm like, why take a chance?

And I'm kidding, of course, don't fucking drown your babies. I probably took that a little farther than I should have. Right after graduating from Gates, Chile, high school, in June, 1970, uh, beyond she gets married, but then as one young wife walks out on him without explanation, eight months later, seeking an ennormant, this may have added to his loathing of women, and happened surely before Carmen Cologne was abducted and murdered. You know, based on who this guy became later, maybe she left him because he was a complete fucking psychotic sexually deviant creep. I feel like a lot of times crime authors try to point at moments like this as the reason

people become murderous or rapey later on. They get rejected by an early lover and they take out the rage. They feel because this rejects and out of another women. That's the narrative strongly associated with Ted Bundy, another infamous killers. But what if these early women just happen to see these creeps for who they already were? Like they were going to do that either way,

and they were just smart enough to get out before they became a victim. Like what if they just sensed it? Like a gazelle senses a lion nearby. They just bolted. Bianchi attended Monroe Community College after his young bride, Fleas for Life, takes courses in psychology and police science, but drops out after one semester, and then

applies for a job at the Monroe County Sheriff's Office and gets rejected. You know, I'm just, sorry, buddy. We're actually trying to catch and lock up a weird, creepy woman haters, not hire them. We're not, we're not hiring them right now. So best of luck. A Beyoncé was repeatedly rebuffed when he applied for police work several times in Rochester. Finally, settles to the only thing he could get with limited educational background and police work, a job as a security guard in a local jewelry store. That's when he began to steal jewelry and changes jobs now repeatedly to avoid being accused of petty theft. About the same time, Bianchi wrote to a lady friend that he had killed someone. She thought it was making it up, trying to quote, sound like a tough guy

to impress her. That's a weird thing to assume. So you didn't find it alarming that he told you he'd killed someone. No, no, no, no, no, guys tell me they've killed me a lot of time. Are you not like the rapes, somebody or abducted somebody or that they've sexually tortured somebody? Sometimes they'll say that they're gonna torture a rape or kill me if I'm not like nicer to them and won't go on like dates and it doesn't even bother me. I just I try and take it all as a compliment. You know, they're I think they're just flirting. They're just trying to be sexy. You know, my mom always said that when a man tells you he's killed somebody or that he's willing to kill you, that's when you know he loves you. A few jobs beyond she held while still in Rochester in the early 1970s make him suspicious

when it comes to the outfit. Murr. The first job was his soda jerk, aughtops and all three victims of double initial murders, you know, revealed they'd eaten shortly before their deaths. The other job was an ambulance driver. I call him Michelle Wanda would be more likely to trust an ambulance driver, probably than some just other kind of random stranger and go somewhere with him. Also, Bianchi had no criminal record at the time of their abduction, so he was flying under the radar of local law enforcement when the investigations began. Then late 1975, roughly two years after the alphabet murders, the 26 year old Bianchi packs up leaves Rochester, heads for Los Angeles and his large used two-tone Cadillac Cadillac that was dark on the bottom, white on top.

There was a, you know, that kind of color difference did come up with one of the witnesses when they were talking about one of the car that Carmen was seen running from. And then once Beyonce got to California, he become known as one of the hillside stranglers when he and his cousin, Angela Buono, kidnapped Ray Torture to murder 10 women and girls between the age of 12 and 28. So it's not like he wasn't, you know, it's not like he was above going after kids. And that all happened between October 1977 and February 1978. And then he fled to Washington State, committed to additional rape and murders of Western Washington University students up around Belaanham, January 1979 before getting caught.

His motorcycle on die was to use fake, a a fake badge. Right to lure women into his car, making them think he was an undercover police officer. They'd sexually torture women before strangling them and dumping their bodies. I'll save additional details for a future try a true crime suck on the hillside stranglers. If there's enough interest in that topic, wink, wink, space lizards. Oh out it up. Wanda Carmen and Michelle were also rape strangled. You know, of course, their bodies were dumped.

So a lot of similarities in the crime and someone pretending to be an officer again, could have lured them into their vehicle. Pretty disturbing, man, pretty disturbing again. Just how many dirt bags were meeting surrounding these murders. And we're still not done. Got one more dirt bag to meet a dirt bag just as filthy as Kenneth Kenzbianchi. And we'll hop back into one more small little timeline of his victims, victims who also share

the same pattern of double initials right after a word from today's final sponsor. Today's time cell is brought to you by the Rochester, New York Board of Tourism. Hey, me, tax. Today's Rochester has a lot more going on than just murder and rape. In fact, I want you to know that Rochester's new official city slogan is kind of Rochester. You're probably not even going to get raped or murdered or different now. There's beautiful lake Ontario for starters. It's one of the great lakes. So you know, it's great. It's in the name. And you can even sometimes swim in it. You know, you can hop in at Durand Eastman

Beach. You can jump in the water at Charlotte Beach at Ontario Beach Park, but don't do that right now because right now the water is extremely toxic. You got to check with city officials for you swim because both beaches are almost always closed due to either horrible weather or extremely, extremely harmful bacteria in the water and you can't die from those infections. But who cares? Who cares even fuck forget about? extremely harmful bacteria in the water and you can't die from those infections. But who cares? Who cares even to forget about?

Hey, there's so much more to Rochester, New York. You can also visit the headquarters of Wegmans. And that's a pretty nice grocery store. There's a regional chain of grocery stores and the headquarters is in Rochester. That's not Nelson. You know, and listen, hey, from what I can tell, almost no one, almost no one gets raped or killed at a Wegmans grocery store very low odds And these are these are listen these are just a few examples of really fun things doing Rochester

So come to Rochester, but not not now Please don't visit between like October and May when it is super dark and shitty and just desolate and Super depressing and there's so much crime and it's just kind of scary and not fun But anyway Rochester not as rapeseed used to be. And that, of course, is not today's sponsor. God, I hope I get some angry emails from Rochester, though. Today's stock is brought to you by Robin Hood. Oh, man, Robin Hood is an investing app that lets you buy and sell stocks, ETFs, options, cryptos. That's right. And crypto currency like Bitcoin, and you can do it all commission free.

Even if you are a stock market newcomer, you can invest for the first time with true confidence with Robinhood. They got a great app with other brokerages. You know, you get charged for like 10 bucks a trade. Robinhood doesn't charge commission fees like at all, zero commission fees, which means you can trade stocks and keep all of your profits. That's what I do. I love no fees.

No fees, as it turns out with my limited math skills, does it appear to be mathematically better than other amounts of fees? True story, look at fact check it. And with the clear design, easy to understand charts and market data, Robinhood lets you place a trade on your smartphone in just four taps. Four taps. Plus, you can discover new stocks, track favorite companies with a personalized newsfeed.

I love how easy this thing is to use. I like how, like, when I open the app, first thing I see is the total value of my stock portfolio that I see it updated in real time with one additional tap. I know how much buying power I have. If I want to keep all my investments, but buy a few more, it's very well designed, easy to link with an account to transfer funds, crisp colors, easier read fonts, very intuitive and straightforward. And check this out. Robinhood is giving time suckers a free stock. You can get a stock from Apple, Ford, Sprint, build up that portfolio. Sign up at time suck dot robinhood dot com. for take a quick look at some California killings that may be related to the alphabet murders of upstate new york around the area of Rochester which again is a little bit better than how

horrible it was before. Shrap on those boots soldier, we're marching down a time, 1977, police in Fairfax, California received an anonymous call. The tipster says that they've just stumbled across a body. Officers find the body of 18 year old, a rock scene, Ruggish, a petite, freckle redhead buried face down in some desert brush. She was found wearing pantyhose inside out. Another pair of pantyhose was around her neck. Third pair was in her mouth. Third pair was in her mouth.

Fourth pair wrapped around her mouth. Her feet were bound and she had been strangled. Ah, that's the first. That's the first. There's those RR double initials. They're back. And then across San Pablo Bay, August 13th, 1978, a California Highway Patrol officer

patrolling the remote Carquinhas. Carquinhas, there we go, carquinhas. Scenic highway near Crockett found the decomposing corpse of 22 year old Carmen Cologne on a pile of garbage below a turnout. How crazy is that? The same name. Carmen Cologne. The body was found just 30 miles from where rock scenes body was found. Naked, again, strangled again.

Yeah, so that's a C C. So we got two of these on September 15th, 1993, jump away ahead, 38 year old waitress and on and off again, a prostitute, Pamela Parsons, P P goes missing. September 19th, just four days later, a body's found by two men walking their dogs off a Simpson, Dantoni road in Linda, California. It was the body of Parsons.

One of the dog walkers was Tony Louise, who later recalled in court that he'd been walking his dog. We noticed another man walking his dog who looks shook up. He asked him, what's the matter, fella? The guy says, my dog just found a dead person over there in the willows. He continued and walked over there and she was laying on her back, arms crossed in front of her, and that was the body of Pamela. As soon determined that Parsons had also been strangled to death, the killing was not connected with the first two because it had been found so many years later in over 120 miles away.

August of 1994, 31-year-old Mary'sville resident Tracy DeFoya, mother of five young children vanishes. Tracy De foyer T T she was last seen alive on August 5th as believed that she was murdered on August 6th. Tracy been struggling with addiction was occasionally working the streets as a prostitute as well. All four of these these victims had been prostitutes, at least off and on. Paperboy found her body in a drainage ditch beside an unkept cemetery on the side of highway 70. There's a near Mary's little cemetery on August 14th. She'd also been strangled. And there's someone who just keeps,

I've been hearing them kind of come into the building a little bit here and there, just kind of disfaintly. And they just can't take hearing about all these vulnerable women, these women, you know, working the streets, being harmed. Chicken Joe, chicken Joe, come on in here. I know you wanna talk, get in here. Bop, bop, play boy, bop, bop.

Why man, it's anything you can plug work and go from the street, lies don't matter, because it has sex and peace of me. What be going on, start going to kill only and choke out of John's. Someone hunt the bucks, not just those and faums. Try someone put down a line, not a lamb. I'd like to get that line back in my pimp hand.

Sex and violence don't make no sense. Sex supposed to clear your head. Now make my motents. You feel me? You dig? You hear my two cents? Buh, bye play boy. Buh, bye.

Ah, chicken Joe, for those of you who haven't heard of him. Before maybe your new listener maybe maybe some of you have trouble understanding the knowledge dropped from time to time by our strange early 1970s, Houston area Pimp. A chicken Joe just said that he's sick of hearing about men killing prostitutes and he would like to hear about a killer who goes after the men who hire prostitutes instead. He doesn't understand also the association between sex and violence, right? Sex and theory, she relax you, not a fury at you. He's an unexpected social justice warrior. That chicken Joe, who would a guest? So we got rock scene, rock-ish, Carmen Cologne, Pamela Parsons, Tracy Tafoya, four more dead females, four more sets of double initials, and then a killer

was captured with strong ties to Buffalo, New York, site of, of course, the initial alphabet murders. Let's jump way ahead again to April 11, 2011. 77 year old Joseph Nassau is arrested in black springs Nevada suburb Reno after home inspection related to a recent theft arrest and violated his probation turns up some super disturbing shit. violated his probation, turns up some super disturbing shit. Joe Nassau, known as Crazy Joe to anybody who really knew him at all, had a long history of running with the law. He had bounced around in San Francisco, Ube City Sacramento, Oakland, El Serito during the 90s, rackin' up numerous convictions, mostly for shoplifting and petty theft.

He'd been caught shoplifting 30 pairs of women's underpants from an Oakland department store. 30 pairs of panties. He's taken from a store in 1995. He'd been arrested for appropriation violation and spent a year in prison prior to, just prior to August 11th, like he just got out of prison. He lived in black springs with his legally

and capacitated son who suffered from schizophrenia, who he maintained custodial guardianship of. NASA was born in Rochester, New York, January 7th, 1934. He'd met his first wife, Judith there in the early 1950s, and they were married for 18 years after the divorce. Even though he took off to California, he continued to visit his ex-wife and other family

in the Rochester area in the 70s, while he was mainly working in the Bay Area as a freelance photographer. And and now let's talk about why he gets arrested for the murders of the California double initial murder victims. So on August 11th, this is how he gets arrested. 2011 Reno police officer, Wesley Jackson, assigned to check on Nassau, uh, uh, uh, stopped at his home, a modest white bungalow in a dead end street cracked by the Nevada desert. Uh, even without a warrant, Jackson was free to rifle through the house on the outer

reaches of Reno at any time he chose. Jackson went through the routine of saying he was there to do a search under the terms of Nassau's probation for theft from a grocery store. And then when the officer, uh, officer Jackson stepped into Nassau's home, one of the first things he notices is, uh, is a pair of mannequin legs turned upside down that had been fitted with nylon stockings. Not the weird, not the creepy, nothing blatant serial killer. Just a mannequin, mannequin's legs, you know, not even a whole mannequin, just manned his

legs wearing some thigh high stockings, probably probably a garter belt. Nassau told the officer that he had stockings on the doll because he wore women's nylon stockings because he had a skin condition on his leg. So he just handed him on the doll's legs. We could just take him up and have on his legs. But then the officer notices that he's not wearing Nassel's. He's wearing socks. That's a weird thing to lie about.

So a search of Nassel's bedroom turns up piles of pictures, disturbing pictures of naked women dressed only in stockings and high heels, doing some creepy situations. You know, initially the pictures you first saw were just naked pictures, and I guess that's the situation that, what a result. You know, he doesn't know how the internet works. You can't find porn there.

Nothing too inherently disturbing. I guess other than one would hope of, you know, if he was your 77-year-old grandpa, you know, he'd hope he'd do a better job of hiding his jerk off stash. It was very, very clear about these pictures. Once he started digging through them, was it some of these women looked unconscious. Some of them looked dead. After being arrested, NASA would later say the photos were taken at a time when quote,

men were women, or no, sorry, no, sorry, that's very different quote, men were men, and women were women, men were men, and women were women, it's just a weird thing to say. And he says this to defend these pictures of unconscious and dead looking women. What? I gotta even like, how do you think in your head that those words coming out of your mouth make anything makes like make sense at any level. Like how do you think that's not a super creepy fucking thing to say? You know, if a police officer was like, hey, why do you have so many pictures of naked women who look like they're dead? Okay, young fella. Hold on. Those pictures were taken, you know, back in the back when the men were men and the women were women, but listen, back in my day, women knew how to be dead.

Back in the good old days, men knew how to take pictures of naked women and women knew how to be naked and dead. Well, the fuck, classic crazy jail. That's just crazy jail being crazy. Then things get even creepier. In the midst of a pile of naked photos laid on it, laid a single sheet of paper with a handwritten list of numbers up to 10, next to each number was the word girl or lady in a location, perhaps location of a body.

A national told officer Jackson, these are just old girlfriends. Ah, these are just old girlfriends. Those are just some models from some previous photo shoots. And then hundreds more pictures of naked women are, aged 20 to 80, laying about what he called his art studio. Another group of photos is found in the living room. Some of the women appear to be posed willingly. Some appear to be again knocked out or worse. Some are bound up with cords. One picture showed a man who was faced with turned away from the camera, appearing to have sex with an unconscious woman. Jackson spotted off. Jackson spotted boxes of bullets near a dresser. And that was enough

to arrest NASA for a breach of probation. And then he continued to search for what he assumed was a weapon hidden somewhere in the house. Uh, days later, the police do find a stash of guns. Uh, and then they did like, then they started really picking up his whole house apart. Um, one of them finds this aluminum clipboard on the dining room table under a bunch of piles of shit, leaps through it, increasingly shocked. The entries on this clipboard amount to a journal of terror. One of the entry said, girl in North Buffalo Woods, she was real pretty. Front seat of my car had to knock her out first, 1958.

Another recorded about the same time said Selena Kansas girl. I followed and met at Fred of Stair Dance Studio. She was gorgeous. Great legs and nylons. Heels had to rape her in my car on a cold, wintry night snow storm. What a piece of shit in the head to. Page after page of what police would come to call the rape diary or rape journal. You know, there's just page after page filled with similar records of his assaults on women. This has become a central part of the case against him. But there was more. The search turns up a separate statute notebooks written years later.

If anything, these are even more horrific with more graphic description to bondage towards a murder. A lot of these haven't been totally released to the public. Some are apparently accounts of past crimes. Others read more as instruction manuals for the prolonged deaths of individually named women yet to be captured. His house held another secret at one end,

was a room with a bolt on the door. They could only be up in from the outside. The middle of the door was a small flap. Kind of like you'd find on a prison cell where people could, you know, slide food in and out. The window was the only window in the house that had been fitted with metal bars

so kind of echoes of the toy box killer here. And it's the rape journal that would lead investigators to the deaths and helped them, you know, convict him in the deaths of rock scene, Rage, Carmen, Cologne, Pamela Parsons, and Tracy, Tafoya. On August 20th, 2013, Nassau would be convicted

by a Marin County, Julia, all these four murders and sentenced to death very likely killed at least six other women uh... the judge during his sentencing called him an evil and disturbed man and said the evidence that proved uh... the evidence proved that he inflicted a warrant and repugnant levels of suffering in cruelty on victims and humiliated them even more by meticulously documenting the crimes in his

diaries and photographs the judge also added you being in this world has made this world a worse place. Well said. Uh, now the one should have put it put it down. Should it look to him hard as a baby? I, again, I am, I am kidding. You know, I'm gonna stop with that because I don't want one fucking lunatic to be like, I get it.

I get what he's trying to say. My kids below could be weird. I gotta stop this now. No, don't, don't do that. Don't drown babies. Now so insisted that the prosecution had not proven its case and that the DNA evidence was planted, that he was the victim of media bias,

also said like the true narcissistic sociopath he is, this was like a hate crime against me. And then he flipped off the courtroom before being led away. Now let's bounce out of this time. I talk about the some creepy ass shit that this guy said during his trial. Good job, soldier. You made it back.

Barely. Crazy Joe would represent himself with his trial like a crazy person does. When you read about his opening defense, you quickly realize, of course, this is not a good plan. He opens it saying, this case is about me, my life. I am not the monster that killed these women. I don't do that. I date.

I dance. But I don't kill people. Why does he still dance in there? I don't kill people. Why, why, why, why does he still dance in there? I don't, I don't kill. Do I date? Of course I do. I'm a ladies man. I'm a Don Juan, if you will.

By the way, he looks like an older sleazeier creepier and somehow even more unattractive version of porn star, former porn star, Ron Jeremy. Well, I've seen him in person a few times and whoa. Ron Jeremy is, ah, ah, creepy, creepy looking dude. Like the cre- and this dude looks creepier than him. Uh, he says, he's side dates. I dance. I don't kill people. Do I kill? No, but do I dance? You went to a sweet ass. I dance. I dance like no one's watching. And it's important. Uh, no one's watching because I kill a lot of people. Uh, I dance with a dance, like no one's watching. And it's important, no one's watching

because I killed a lot of people that I danced with. Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me look at my notes again. Sorry about that. No, Nassau felt he could represent himself because he had taken, I'm not making this up. He felt he could represent himself because he had taken one course

in a business law class in college decades earlier and quote, did well. What fucking moron? I love it when people do stuff like this when they just learn a little bit about something that suddenly think they're an expert, you know? I'm not even gonna pay some doctor. No, a thousand and a thousand dollars, some assholes,

just cause you, oh, you went to school for almost 10 years. Listen, I went to school too. I got a B plus biology class soft more year, high school, okay? I'll figure out how to trim my own cancer thanks. Probably just need to take more vitamin C. You need to take my money. Nassau referred to the prosecution's opening statements as character assassination,

saying, I wanna tell you about myself, who I really am. Prosecutors don't even have circumstantial evidence. He says, he says in regard to the four women being prostitutes, he says, I have no issue with prostitutes. I have a higher regard for prostitutes. There may be prostitutes in this courtroom. Uh, I love his defense. Just keeps getting better. I love prostitutes. Look, a lot of women, uh, get paid for sex. There's nothing wrong with that. I, I'm assuming several of you here, uh, get paid for sex. I'm assuming several jury members are you know given

blow jobs inside for for money cheap hotel rooms uh... several you do have to look about you nothing i'm fine with that uh... you know it i mean really as soon as the sham of a trial is over uh... i want to throw the judge twenty bucks for uh... for a blowy you know uh... back behind the party line it's okay no judgment no judgment uh... naso also claimed that the DNA conclusively linked him to DNA found on on Roger's pantyhose was not his.

He said that the DNA found there, you know, even though they said it was his, it's not his. He said that's just a theory that it's his DNA. Let's listen, you, listen, you guys, look at, listen, this is important. I took a business law class in college in 1957. Was my DNA found on the crime scene? Were my fingerprints left all over and around the victims?

Is there closer camera footage of me killing the victim? Is there several eyewitnesses? Is there video of me signing a courtroom confession? Saying I did all this. I mean, yeah, those are some theories. Those are some theories. Those are some theories. There's also the theory that I just walk on out of here and get back to putting Nile on some mannequins, you know, maybe that's the right thing to do. If you think about it, Nile's still only admitted to knowing

Pamela Parsons who modeled for him once, saying I'm sorry about her demise, but I didn't do it. And he says, he picked her up on the side of the road, took her to his house and said that she offered sex, but he didn't take her up on that. He just took glamour pictures. Listen. Did she want to do me? Yeah. Of course she did.

Look at me. If I could split myself into two people, I wouldn't get anything done, because I'd constantly be fucking myself, because how could I not, you know? If like one half of me was some hot broad, some sex pot. Damn. I be just doing me non-stop You know there are laws in nature just like a lion feels compelled to kill a gazelle. Oh Women feel compelled to bone the Nassau, but being the gentleman. I am being the being the dancer having the dancers heart that I do You know, I just said listen lady. I'm not here to bone you But being the gentleman I am, being the dancer, having the dancers heart that I do. You know, I just said, listen, lady, I'm not here to boney you. I'm not here to give you the Nassau special.

I'm not here to take you to Carnal Heaven, okay? I just wanna take some classiest pictures of you looking scared while you're naked, like a dancer would do. He said that she was alive when she came in and alive when she left. He also admitted to two sexual incidents. One in 1958 when he was charged with second-degree assault and sentenced to probation, another 1961, where the charges were dropped to the lack of evidence. He said, these are the only two bad dates he'd ever had. Look, you went, look, you went, some, you lose some. Some women know how to enjoy a nice evening out on a date.

Some women don't like being raped. And look, I don't like it to me. I just dance. I just dance all that negativity away. You don't run around on the nest so train. I'll just dance it off. I'll just dance it off. Do you like rape? No, okay. I'll just dance away. Hey, how do you like it and choked? You don't you don't care for it Ah, okay, I'm just gonna you know, Dan. I'm just a shuffle on back I'm just gonna fox trot back Do you like being choked in a ditch? I don't care for it. That's okay I'm just gonna poke away over fucking crazy motherfucker He said That what the prosecution called his rape journal journal was not proof of any crime Listen this motherfucker. He said that what the prosecution called his rape journal was not proof of any crime.

Listen, this guy, he says when regarding the journal entries where he specifically uses the word rape, where he specifically says he raped this person, rape that person, he goes, this is not me this time, this is one of his quotes. He says, that's the way I talk. I have brain sex. When I say I picked up a nice broad and raped her, it has nothing to do with forceful rape. I've never had any complaints with any of my dates,

except for the two. She's that's, no one talks like that except for rapists. How, hey man, how's your day last night? Not bad. Went out to potye, had a good stay, couple glasses of wine, and that's when I took her back to my place in Rape her. She was using it, she was like, yeah, yeah, just go ahead and rape me.

She was nice, bro. Nassau closed out his opening by spending three hours talking about his passion and talent for photography. Three hours talking about how good he was as a photographer. I was surprised he didn't kill a few of the jurors that day by pushing them towards suicide with his crazy ass opening statement. Please, end up seizing roughly 5,000 disturbing photos, by the way. None of them though featured pictures of the girls from Rochester, the alphabet murder girls. No rape journal entries matched specifically the murder of those girls. The closest that one I said earlier,

girl in North Buffalo Woods, she was pretty head and knock her out first, but that was obviously, I was back in the 50s way before the early 70s. And also DNA evidence cleared him as a suspect in the Rochester murders, just like it cleared that rapy firefighter. Damn it. You know, would have been nice to have some closure on these killings. And then Nassau remains on death's road a day. Like I said, earlier, you know, with his age and with california's current kind of uh...

moratorium on the death penalty uh... is pregnant i have natural causes which is the bomber uh... okay so so what is stirrer the most about today's tail was a number of suspects so many dirt bags surrounding these killings and maybe think how many dirt bags are out there like what are the stats let's look at some of these numbers terrifying numbers according to the national sexual violence resource center a large The two bags are out there, like what are the stats? Let's look at some of these numbers, terrifying numbers, according to the National Sexual

Violence Resource Center, a large nonprofit dedicated to providing information and tools to prevent and respond to sexual violence. Here are the stats, one in five women, one in 71 men will be raped at some point during their lifetime. These are US stats, United States stats, 91% of victims of rape and sexual assault are female, 9% are male, and 8 out of 10 cases are raped, the victim knew the perpetrator, one in four girls, one in six boys will be sexually abused before they turn 18. 30% of women who have been raped were raped between the ages of 11 and 17.

More than one third of women who report being raped before age 18 are again raped as adults. 96% of people who sexually abused children are male. 76.8% of people who sexually abused children are adults. Ah man, no, sympathy. A dude, a grown-ass man, doing that to kids. Man, fuck you. Only 12% of child sexual abuse is ever reported to authorities. 34% of people who sexually abuse a child or family members of the child rape is the most

under reported violent crimes. 63% of sexual assaults are not reported to police. The prevalence of false reporting is low between 2% and 10% for example, study of eight U.S. communities, which included 2,059 cases of sexual assault, found only a 7.1% rate of false reports. Here are some more stats from a different organization. Rain, the rape abuse and incest national network. It says, 1998, it's estimated that over 17,700,000 women have been raped in US alone,

and then sadly 99% of perpetrators walk free. And remember with this stat, that's based largely on how many of the crimes are estimated to be not reported. You know, so it's estimated 99% of people who rape, not 90% of people who are charged with rape, but that 99% of people who bleed to a rape somebody end up just walking free.

You know, 13% of female rape survivors will attempt suicide. All these numbers make you wonder how many rapeous routes that's what they make me wonder how many rape is right there walking around. Some studies I found suggest that between one and seven or and one and 16 US men have raped at least one person. That's including of course the quains rapers all forms of rape, which is really only one form of rape. That's somewhere between 6.5 and almost 15%. And look, other studies will reveal different results. I'm sure maybe the real numbers are higher or lower or whatever.

I just know that an alarming number of women I have dated, who I have known personally, have confided in me over my adult life that they have been raped. One was raped as a child, when she was kidnapped and raped by a stranger in a park, others, rape by strangers as well. Numerous accounts. These are all told to me of acquaintance rape.

Uh, what the fuck? It's such an avoidable crime. Don't put your dick where it's not wanted. How hard is that to understand? It's not. I said it before. I'll say it again and stuff. Just jerk off.

Just jerk off. You're rapey creepy fuck. Jerk off, reevaluate your life if you're thinking about rape. And if you're not sure, you just don't put it in. And don't act, I hate that argument of like, oh, things got heated, you know, they just feel like you couldn't stop. That bowl shit.

Things never get so heavy, you just can't stop. You think you truly can't control yourself, you know, with things that's actually heated, you literally can't stop. Well, congratulations. That's how rapist thinks, you're a rapist. Look in the mirror, deal with that's actually heated, you literally can't stop, well, congratulations. That's how rapists thinks. You're a rapist. Look in the mirror, deal with that, you scumbag.

You can stop, blue balls. That's not the worst thing in the world, right? And actually just makes you come that much harder next time around. I mean, learn some dick control. Violence against women, man. Sexual violence against women. Young girls, disgustingly common.

And I know men and boys get raped too, but this suck is not about that. If someone who hurts kids, it actually hurts kids. Man, throw yourself off a fucking cliff. You suffer from a disease, it can't be cured, it destroys other people's lives. You know, I feel bad that you got something,

but if you're never gonna be able to control yourself, I don't know, just throw yourself off a cell phone. Hi, you know, or at least move away from kids. Don't go to functions where kids are present. Leave places where kids show up. Just stay the fuck away from kids. Stay away from me, I've no away from kids. Don't go to functions where kids are present. Leave places where kids show up. Just stay the fuck away from kids. Stay away from me. I have no use from you.

Time suck community is welcoming, to an extremely diverse group of people, but not shout predators. Like whoever killed those poor alphabet murder girls, you'll never be welcome in any place. I have anything to do with. Yeah, my tolerance has a layer of it's man. Tolerance should have limits.

That's time for top five takeaways. Time suck, top five takeaways. Time, suck, top five takeaways. Number one between November 16th, 1971, April 2nd, 1973, three young girls are raped and strangled in the area around Rochester, New York. Be sure to visit Rochester. It's way less, there's way less that going on now up here. Carmen Cologne, Michelle Mayanza, Wanda, Vokovic. These killings are also known as the

double initial murders, lots of suspects. No one's been caught. Number two between 1997, excuse me, 1977, in 1994, four additional victims with matched initials are killed this time in California. It's time all adults, rock scene, ragdish, Carmen, Cologne, Pamela Parsons, Tracy Tafoya, Joseph, crazy Joe Nassau convicted at all those killings. Number three, there are several suspects in original alphabet killings. One of them being convicted serial killer, Kenneth Bianchi, one of the infamous hillside stranglers when he and his cousin, you know, Angelo Bono kidnapped Rape, tortured murdered 10 women and girls between the age of 12 and 28 between October, 1977, February, 78. And then he fled to Washington State, committed two additional rape and murders before finally

getting caught. And then he lived and worked in a Rochester area during the time of the initial murders and bounced to California. Number four, according to a variety of statistics, roughly one in five women will be raped United States at some point during their lifetime. No means no, motherfucker. Control yourself. Learn a little bit of, I'll recommend this.

It's just a dick slap technique. If you're getting too worked up, you just slap. You slap the head of your dick. I'm not even joking. I mean, you don't want to like punch it, you know, to break up, you just slap. You slap the head of your dick, I'm not even joking. I mean, you don't wanna like punch it, you don't like break something, but give it a nice whop. It's not gonna really hurt the thing, it's gonna be painful enough to completely distract you

from any and all sexuality. You can use it, hopefully, as a, I'm not gonna rape tank. Hopefully you use it as like, I don't wanna come so fast technique, but you can also use it, you know, to not be rapy. And maybe I thought of that, maybe it was you know, to not be rapy. And maybe, maybe I thought

of that. Maybe it was told to me by a special guest today. Ba, ba, play, bo. Number five, new info. While Joseph Nassau was convicted of four double initial killings, there was enough evidence and two other murders to allow prosecutor deputy district attorney, Dory Ahana, to bring up these other killings at his sentencing hearing. So he wasn't convicted. There's misleading information on the internet. Some places like Wikipedia say he was convicted of these other, he was not convicted of four, but there are two other murders that were brought up.

One was Sarah Dylan, a Bob Dylan groupie. Lasting on her way to a Dylan concert at the Warfield Theater in San Francisco, May 1992. She was born Renée Shapiro, but became, got so into Dylan, she changed her name to the name of his former wife. And investigators found Shapiro's driver's license and passport in Nassau's safety deposit box, along with newspaper obituaries of two other victims of his. So that's obviously very suspicious. Also the body of Sharia Patent 56, washed ashore near the naval net depot

in Tiburon, California, and 921. At the time of her death, she was in the Bay Area, looking for work, and NASA managed the apartment where she lived. He also took photos of her. The photos of her were found in his treasure trove of creepy photos. And he was also considered the prime suspect

in her murder by police way back in 921, but there just wasn't enough evidence to charge him. in his treasure trove of creepy photos. And he was also considered the prime suspect in her murder by police way back in 1991, but there just wasn't enough evidence to charge him, you know, with her death. Also, I just thought this was added to the creepiness of this dude at his sentencing, Nassau's ex-wife testified that she believes she was sexually assaulted by two men in a hotel room

after Nassau basically roofied her in a San Francisco nightclub in the summer of 1976, you know, which was when the first of these killing just before the first these killings happened, which I think is significant. Totally blacked out, found myself in a different place. I believe I was drugged. She said she was depressed at the time and had two drinks at the nightclub. Next thing she knew, two men who were wearing clothing, were lying on top for her in her bed in a hotel. She felt strong that she had just been sexually assaulted

and she said that her husband was sitting by the bed watching her very intensely. Two men then ran away when she woke up and she said I was fuzzing confused. I believe they were having sex with me. She confronted Nassau when they got home and he said he thought it would cheer me up, but it didn't.

Is he a psychotic sexual sadist or just doesn't understand how life works? There's so many weird moments during his trials. Just, you know, like he's just very confused. Just, I look, I don't get it. I don't get these bros. I tried to show my wife a nice time. I took her out for drinks and then out of the goodness of my heart, I got her some side action. She's intense. I roofed her a little bit to relax her and I let a couple nice fellows. I'd met at the bar, have their way with her. And then when she wakes up, somehow I'm the asshole.

Where did that come from? I don't even get it. I mean, if my lady got me blackout drunk and I woke up with two strange ladies on top of me, I would be ecstatic. The only thing better than that is a sexiest, paramanic and ladies and some stockings. Now can you guys just let me go home or now or what? I mean, am I gonna be sent to prison

for being overly thoughtful? Time suck, tough, five takeaway. The alphabet murders sucked. So much crime, so many different crimes, so many different criminal dirt bags. How creepy was Joseph Nassau, man? I just kept thinking like also with him last thing I want to say about him. If he really didn't commit the Rochester area killings and it looks like he didn't, I wonder was he at least influenced by the alphabet murders, like darkly inspired in some way.

You know, I mean, you know, he didn't kill anybody that we know for sure until after. I mean, although he did have some creepy journal entries, but he could have been just darkly fantasized in those earlier entries. And I don't know, maybe, maybe it's triggered something. I don't know. Okay, I don't know. Could be coincidence too. I guess it doesn't really matter. Glad he's writing in prison. Big thanks is always to the time stock team, the high priestess of the sock, Harmony Velocamp, Jesse Guardian of Grammar, Dope, Norever and Dr. Joe, motherfucker, Paisley. Time-soaked, high, be sure to check out Moreta. Again, by the way, time-soaked high priest Alex Duggan, the guys at Biddelix are danger

brains, space lizards, merch wizards, axis of peril. So proud of all the fun goofy stuff we have on the store now. Hoodies, windbreakers, T-shirts, challenge coins, beer glasses, tumblers, an animal pins, no big sum much stuff. Huge thank, of course, as always, tumblers, an animal pins, no big sum much stuff. Huge thank, of course, as always, to Queen of the Suck, Lindsey Cummins, for being the best wife ever. Huge thanks to, I am not taking her to a bar ever to do some weird ass roofie show with her, but creepy, creepy.

I think this is always to Heather Knowledge Ninja, Rylinder. She's been having a tough, tough, very tough couple weeks. Hope she's doing well, sending her some love and positive energy. Thanks for always kicking ass, Heather. And if you haven't already, get in there and give the Colt's the Curious Private Facebook Group a try. Over 5,000 time suckers and the private Colt's the Curious Group on Facebook. Also you can try Time Sucks Discord channel for even more engagement with additional cult members links to both in today's episode description

Next week we're going hard in the opposite direction of murder going into the direction of little holiday inspiration man in 2014 United Kingdom UK pub owner named Alex Lewis lost part of his face all four of his limbs after contracting a devastating name Alex Lewis lost part of his face, all four of his limbs after contracting a devastating staff infection. He damn near died was given a 3% chance to survive at one point, but he didn't die. And more importantly, he didn't stop living either. He now works as an interior designer. He raises funds for other amputees, learning how to walk with the help of some of advanced prosthetics.

He recently went six surgeries on his face to give himself a set of lips again. And his tail is just a great reminder of how much the human spirit can endure and overcome. I just find those type of tails very, very inspiring. When you're feeling low and you're feeling star for yourself, these are the kind of tails we list to them. You're like, you know what, I gotta get off my ass and just make some shit happen

in my life. I'm gonna share this, some other inspirational tales, close out 2018. I'm also going to do a bit of a year in review during the last episode as well of the year. Reflect on how far the suck has come. Thanks to you listeners. Thanks entirely to you listeners.

How far it's coming 2018 and share some hopes and dreams for 2019. Update you all on how this journey looks like and what it feels like from the inside. And then to kick off 2019, probably gonna go dark again, probably gonna go dark again, probably gonna go back to some intense creepy shit. Hail Luciferina.

And now it's time for Time Sucker Update. Updates, get your time, sucker, updates. Starting off, talk about inspirational stuff, with a beautiful message from one time sucker about another time sucker. Asking for help on behalf of this other sucker. An anonymous, do gooder, an anonymous, good Samaritan, an anonymous, good Samaritan, I think is how you're supposed to pronounce it. An anonymous, goad Samaritan.

But seriously, she writes in, or he, I don't know, don't say who I am please, but I was assigned to be someone's secret Santa and learned and she shared some stuff with Facebook and as well as with the group. I'll send you the GoFundMe link mostly because she tells the story best there She has cancer surgery coming up on the 10th of December her name is Becky Lusk If you could just send her some good vibes for yourself and the crew leave me out of it because it's not about me I just thought she'd appreciate some love Well, yes, and Becky sent an email before I'm so sorry that that got lost in the show by none of them by me

We do get a lot of messages. I apologize. I hope your surgery went very, very well. And yes, we're gonna put your link to your GoFundMe campaign in today's episode description. I hope you're recovering well. I hope you're getting ready for good holidays. And I hope you're getting some help sent your way. So Becky, sorry, I missed again that initial email.

Now we have an Idahoan sucker in need. Todd Larsen writes in the same name as Todd Larsen, I'm an OG space lizard fellow Idahoan that could use some help. My beautiful wife, 23 years, going through chemotherapy for breast cancer. She is kicking cancer's ass, but the medical bills are kickin' mine.

I'm not one to usually ask for help, but being part of this awesome community, you have built, has taught me that there are a lot of people out there that need help. And there are also a shit ton of awesome folks willing to give help at a moment's notice. One of her awesome co-workers made a go for me to help with medical costs. I'm no beggar. I have a full time job and my wife Amanda works when the chemo isn't beating her down, but

the cost of staying alive can kill you sometimes. I really appreciate all that you guys do. I fire up times so I come away home from work. It really helps me from losing my shit on the crappy days. Here is the link. Thanks again for all that you guys do. I fire up times so I come away home from work. It really helps me from losing my shit on the crappy days. Here is the link. Thanks again for all that you do. Beat that smoothie guys ass. He whispered to me.

Yes, yes. I also put in the go fund me link as well for this go fund me campaign today's episode description. And with these go fund, I just wanna say too, any of you can also just join the private Facebook group and you can post them there to ask and share your story and see who resonates with. We get a lot sent into the show and in just some weeks,

some weeks they just get lost in a busyness, just being totally honest, trying to gather and organize and you know, put these episodes together in short time, all the time, in a short amount of time, all the time. And then sometimes there's just too many that week, but you can always send them in. You know, we do try to put them in there,

as you know, from time to time. And also you can post them wherever you want on our social media, you know, to let people know. And now I thought this was cool, a religious fairness update from Christian author and publisher Paul Spencer. Paul writes, as a sucker, I want to bring up one thing. The primary point of frustration that I have concerning your approach to different topics is how you differ

on your opinions on stereotypical religious topics versus abnormal spiritual topics. This is a great point I've never thought of. You have said that you are fastened by and somewhat convinced by the descriptions of quote, unquote, demonic forces such as the shadow people and the possession of animal East Michelle. Yeah, I've it's hard. I struggle with my rational part of my mind on that. But yeah, something about those two speak to me. But when it comes

to Joan of Arc and other positive spiritual experiences, you call those who undergo the experience likely insane. That's fair. That's fair to call me out on that. I personally don't know what to make a joke, but in my mind, it seems that her proofs the spiritual experience aligned with Annalise's, Annalises, telling people things they could not know and whatnot. I generally don't agree with the over-spiritualization

of saints, icons, and relics as practice in the Catholic tradition, but if we're going to be open to some, shouldn't we be open to all? Even if it makes you uncomfortable to support orthodox religious beliefs, okay? Of course, you did suggest Annalise may have also been insane and the update suggested that she could have been suffering from schizophrenia and or OCD. You also emphasize the fact that she grew up in a strict Catholic family, as you did with Joan, which certainly would have informed any kind of illusions or girls we're having.

The problem is that you approach the negative experience of Analyse with skeptical openness. Whereas you approach Joan of Arc with mocking disbelief. Ultimately, you leave these things open in your treatments and in the updates, but the approach you take up front is rarely equal and fair. Between the two types of spiritual experiences, the topic of God seems to be scaring you off, but demons attract you intellectually and psychologically. Check yourself. Okay. That's fair. That is fair. Overall, you do a great job with the podcast. I'm listening to my episodes one to 92 so far because the love

would you do very entertaining and informative. But I won't be, but I wouldn't be an active listener if I didn't take the opportunity to give my two cents just some food for thought on how you might approach future topics and the spiritual aspects of life in general. Respectfully Paul Spencer. Man, thank you Paul. That was a very insightful message. And this is this is my favorite type of demons and the dark side of spiritual. I was like, yeah, that might be true. But then, but then look at the positive side and be like, fuck, come on, man. No, no way. I mean, part of it might be, maybe I don't articulate things enough or maybe

like, I don't know if we can define the good aspects of spiritual nature. Spiritual nature. But if I'm going to entertain the possibility of a demon, then I got to entertain the possibility of its positive equivalent, you know, which you could describe as an angel and that can lead to a whole other, you know, things in the spiritual and religious world. So you know what, I am gonna do my best to keep that in mind, going forward. And again, I appreciate that. Now we have a long time, another long time, sucker. Elias, I never know how to say this word. Elias are Elias.

I think Elias, Elias Madera, with a thank you to the suck. Saying, greetings, salt to the suck. My name is Eli. There you go. That's easier than when you add to AS. I can fucking rock Eli unless your name is like Eli and I like, that's unfortunate. You should change the pronunciation.

But you write, my name is Eli and I figured, I should let you know how much time suck and really, all of your comedy means to me. I started listening to Crazy with a Capital F on Pandora when I was depressed 14 year old and it really helped to see someone with as much pen up anger as me express their wacky new ideas and entertain you away. Yeah, that's fair.

Inspired me to view myself with less severity and to laugh myself instead of getting frustrated my problems. I'm 20 now and I feel like I've sort of grown up with you. Senior grow up into what seems and what I sincerely hope is a healthier, happier person who's inspired a community of odd people who suck on that sweet sweet knowledge and growth is astonishing. The way you treat your family and carry yourself serves as to me is a great example of the kind of man I want to be. Thank you so much for everything you and you're sucking awesome crew are creating can't stop the suck. Chuck, Elias or Liyas, Eli Madera. Man, thank you. I am very honored that you think that and I try.

I try to be, I know I say a lot of crazy stuff, but I core value stuff. I try to do my best. I do try to be a good husband and a good father. I work at it, work at it. That's all you can do. And yeah, man, the key is just to be able to, I think be able to admit you're wrong. And just really think about the choices you can do. And yeah, man, the key is just to be able to, I think, be able to admit you're wrong.

And just, you know, really think about the choices you're making and just try to do the choices. You truly, truly, truly in your heart think of the best choices. Okay. Ended on a funny football stat group being, getting a name based on time. So this is silly little one, I thought it was funny.

Jacob Shepard writes, by friends and I have started doing some hardcore research into football statistics. And in honor of your influence on me, we are calling ourselves the ball suckers. I like it. Hey, I'm in a row. Do you ball suckers? You suck those balls. Suck them. Suck them so hard. And thank you guys so much for today's updates.

Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. updates. The Alpha Bed murders have been sucked. I hope those crimes get solved eventually. If you come across Joseph Nassau, maybe if you kick him in the head, that'd be awesome. Don't rape anybody. Just don't do it. Just just just please. I ever just don't ever do it.

And keep on sucking Hey, I only uh let me hold you down in a ditch or something or something I can just you know I can I can get rough do some crazy shit if you want or you don't like that Okay, I'll just I'll just dance away Gonna dance off back of the rapin. Don't need to do that, I can fight somebody else. Just dance her through life for rapin' dancer!