Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 158 - The Mysterious Death of JonBenet Ramsey

Starting point is 00:00:00 As a parent, I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child. I can't imagine a worse way to lose a child than to have that child be murdered. Could it get worse than that? Yes, it could. What if you were told that your child was sexually assaulted before they were murdered? What if that happened to them when they were just six years old? Could it get worse than that? Of course it can.

Starting point is 00:00:23 What if they were murdered in your home while you slept peacefully in your bed? What if they were murdered the night after Christmas, killed in the basement after another successful Christmas where everyone got what they wanted and the dream home your family lived in? The dream home you bought with the money you made after busing your ass for years, launching your own business,

Starting point is 00:00:39 merging with two other businesses, becoming president of this new company, positioning it for a massive buyout making millions along the way. What if your daughter was taken from you just five short years removed from the loss of another one of your daughters? You just recovered as much as one can recover from the first loss. You just rebuilt your life after divorce and death, spectacularly rebuilt it, and then

Starting point is 00:01:00 this happens. Could it get worse than that? Yes. Sadly, there is almost always room for at least a little bit of worse. What if you were the one to find her dead body and then you became one of the prime suspects in her murder? And your wife became another

Starting point is 00:01:16 and then your nine-year-old son became the third? What if the court of public opinion decided that one of you or two of you or all of you had to have killed your daughter and then that stigma followed you for the rest of your life. And then yourself made fortune faded away the homes and the boats and more sold to pay for massive legal fees, tabloid after tabloid, accusing you of murder, everywhere you go, people looking at you and discussed, it doesn't get much worse than that. And this is exactly what may have happened to John Bennett Ramsey, father of the six-year-old beauty pageant winner, John Bene Ramsey, who was murdered in the Ramsey Colorado home

Starting point is 00:01:51 in 1996, despite being publicly exonerated by the District Attorney's Office as a suspect in his daughter's death. Years after first being accused, John Bene Ramsey's murder still remains unsolved, and many still think her father, John, had something to do with it. Do I many still think her father John had something to do with it. Do I think he did it or had something to do with it? Did his wife do it or his son? I don't know. I really don't. My God, this case is a confusing one. I felt dizzy doing this research. The more you unravel this case, the more complicated it gets. Right when you think you know who did it, a new piece of the puzzle comes along away and just obliterates all of your former resolve.

Starting point is 00:02:27 Curious what conclusions you'll come to today? We take a deep dive into the mysterious murder of John Bonet Ramsey, one of the most infamous unsolved murder cases in American history on another Who Done It? True Crime Edition of Time Suck. time suck. Happy Monday, meat sacks. The content parade continues here on time suck. 158 straight weeks of deep dives, dives that have gotten deeper each year,

Starting point is 00:03:07 just over three years now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hail Nimrod, be gone, Lucifina, Praisebo, Jangles, praise Michael McDonald, triple them, Michael Motherfucking McDonald, and thanks for listening. Because it has been three years, we just released a reprint of the very first time, Sock T for a little anniversary, a little birthday here on the show.

Starting point is 00:03:27 The original time sucked tea that features the original logo, many of you probably have never even seen that logo. The OG first edition tea is back now in two colors, navy blue and original gray and Isabella 3,100 one tea made of 100% cotton and for old time's sake, it's also made of 100% real baby skin. Just like the first time. I forgot we started that dark with our fabric choice. Yikes.

Starting point is 00:03:49 Oh my heck, my Lanta. Woo. So check out the time sucks Shopify store. It's easy to find. Good old Google. You just link to it from the episode description as well. Thank you for all the recent ratings and reviews over 9,000 ratings, over 2,300 reviews on iTunes alone.

Starting point is 00:04:05 Appreciate it so much. Appreciate the thousands of you who gave my new horror podcast that I do with my wife, Lindsey Queen of the Sucks, scared to death. Listen this past week. After a small tech dilemma, it's on all the usual podcast players now and charting charting on iTunes big time. So, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

Starting point is 00:04:23 uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh Apparently saying midnight is too confusing. I realize when you say midnight, no one knows which day you're talking about. So it's Tuesday night, the stroke before midnight. Scared to death, give fear of chance. I hope I had a blast this past week in Phoenix. I had to record this before traveling. I'm guessing I had a great time getting to see Jimmy Wiseman. James Petra Gallow from the Fantastic True Crime Podcast, Crime in Sports, Small Town Murder. And those guys know how to put on good shows.

Starting point is 00:05:04 Plans were made to hang out with them both, and James Lovely and hilarious wife, Sarah. So I'm hoping by the time you hear this, that had a great time hanging out with all of them. Love that crew. The Detroit standup special shows for now, both sold out, gonna be a blast. Thank you so much.

Starting point is 00:05:18 Small chance, additional tickets will go on sale the day of. It depends on some tech stuff. Depends on if there's extra room in the venue, after they've set up all the cameras, Sometimes there will be sometimes there won't be. If there are a few tickets available last minute, I will post about it at at Dan Cummins comedy on Instagram at Dan Cummins comedy Instagram. So follow Nimrod Willsitts. If you want a chance to go to that show tickets are available for this weekend shows in Indian apolis at helium comedy club and Tampa at sideitters, October 10th to the 13th.

Starting point is 00:05:48 Also to my 10,000 laughs comedy festival show in Minneapolis, October 19th, and then it's Portland, Oregon, Columbus, Ohio, Denver, Colorado, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Tacoma, and Spokane, Washington to finish out 2019 and to wrap up the happy murder tour. Dan Cummins.tv for more tour info. Last thing, I keep fucking up this month's charity website. It's youth on record.org. Impulse was last month. I keep saying the right charity, but I keep giving the wrong website. So youth on record.org, we gave $3,000 this month to Denver's youth on record.org. Click on that site in the episode description to find out how great they really are. I, uhsay I may be on their podcast. They do a podcast about the good things they're

Starting point is 00:06:28 doing when I do my shows in Denver. Okay. Time now to move on over to today's Colorado based topic. The mysterious murder, the very mysterious murder of young beauty queen, you know, a victim. I mean, you know, they're always taken too soon, but especially this case taken far far too soon John Bene Ramsey The story begins a day after Christmas 1996 almost 23 years ago The Ramsey family had just hosted a lavish successful Christmas party on Christmas day the Ramzies were John and Patricia Ramsey family had just hosted a lavish, successful Christmas party on Christmas day. The Ramses were John and Patricia Ramsey. Uh, and I was Patsy, nine year old son, Burke Ramsey, and their six year old daughter, John

Starting point is 00:07:10 Benae Ramsey. John also had two living children from his first marriage, 20 year old John Andrew and 24 year old Melinda who were spending Christmas in 1996 with their mother, Cindy, John's first wife in Marietta, Georgie. Georgie, Georgia, Georgia, you know, down in Georgie. Oh, Georgie land, getting my ticket to Georgie. The Ramsey family lives in an affluent area of Boulder in a huge 7,240 square foot

Starting point is 00:07:35 tooter-style dream home at 74915 Street and the exclusive swank ass neighborhood of Chateauqua. Good name, good name for an expensive neighborhood. Might be Chateauqua. Chateauqua, I think that's the idea. I said it. That's a way better name for a nice neighborhood than like toilet nuggets or missing fingernails.

Starting point is 00:07:53 Whoa, that's a rough one. Sure I can swing by, where do you live again? Missing fingernails? You know what, I can't swing by. I thought you bought a place in Chateauqua. People named Flint and Chad, living a place called Chateauqua. People named Flint and Chad live in a place called Chateauqua. People named Shredder and Gumbo live in Miss and Finger Nails. The Ramsey home cost John $500,000, which home-wise is like a million or two today,

Starting point is 00:08:16 maybe more than two million. Over the next two years, Patsy remodeled decorated to the tune of an additional $700,000. They were doing all right in the money department. The average price of a home in this neighborhood today, according to real estate apps like Trulia and Realtor.com is somewhere between two and three million. The former seven bedroom eight bath Ramsey home is valued just over $3 million right now, built in the 1920s, exquisitely landscaped.

Starting point is 00:08:39 Large private backyard has three fireplaces, a master suite that takes up the entire top floor of the two- story home that also features a large basement level. The house was so nice, the Ramsey family had it listed on the Boulder Christmas tour, as well as on a regular home tour in Boulder when people visited and between 1500 to 2000 guests would visit each year. Passy would would take him, would meet him at the door was John Bene and Birk at her

Starting point is 00:09:02 side, each of them wearing perfect little matching sweaters. You know, they had to wear to make mama happy. In 1996, John had just turned 53. He just got a six figure work bonus days earlier. He was married to a 40 year old former beauty queen. He was crush in life. Not only did he and his model step for wife type family have an amazing home and bolder. They also had a stunning summer home Lake Michigan and the 2500 person picture us a little lake town of Charlot Voy situated between Lake Michigan and the western end of Lake Charlot Voy, which drains into Lake Michigan through the short-round lake Pine River complex in the heart of downtown Charlot Voy. Little summer resort town. It's been that way since the 1880s. Their waterfront home was 1,731 square feet, four bedroom, four and a half baths, valued over $330,000 at the time, valued at around a million dollars now.

Starting point is 00:09:53 The Ramses also maintained a third residence in Atlanta, Georgia, where they'd lived before moving to Boulder. They drove luxury cars, had a boat, John had two separate private planes. They used his pilot license to fly around in. They had big parties. They would throw some of which would cost upwards of $30,000 and have actors performing parts. I mean, crushing it, especially for Boulder. Boulder, Colorado, still didn't even have 100,000 people in it in 1996. It only has around 110,000 now. The metro area has around

Starting point is 00:10:19 300,000. It's mostly known as the home of Colorado's biggest university, the University of Colorado, the Buffaloes, and the Ramses were kind of a big deal in Boulder. You know, you're going to have less members of the upper crust than a place like Boulder than you're going to have in some place like San Francisco or Manhattan. They were rich, attractive, had two well-behaved, beautiful kids. Burke was shy and quiet. Little John Bene was the exact opposite. By the age of six, you'd already want America's royal miss, little miss Charlotte Boy, little miss Colorado,

Starting point is 00:10:46 Colorado State All-Star Kids Cover Girl, the crown of national tiny Miss Beauty and more. You watch videos, you seem to love singing and dancing in public or tiny body, exuded to charisma. She was a little star. Her dad was one of the city's rising business stars. Her mom was one of the town's premier socialites

Starting point is 00:11:02 and her brother, well, yeah, he was there too. He was nine and cute, and he smiled nice for all the family photos. If you were alive anywhere near the time of Jean-Bene's short life, you'll probably remember some of Jean-Bene's beauty pageant pictures on the covers of almost every grocery store tabloid. There was week after week, month after month,

Starting point is 00:11:19 year after year following her death. I still see her face at the grocery store. She was on the cover of something just a few weeks ago, some tabloid, and it's been over 20 years since her death, I still see her face at the grocery store. She was on the cover of something just a few weeks ago. So I'm tabloid and it's been over 20 years since her death. Her death fascinated America at a level comparable to Nicole Simpson or Kayleigh Anthony. Actually more. Nicole's probable killer, O.J. Simpson, Kayleigh's probable killer, Casey Anthony, done sucks on both of them. They got more media attention than John Bene murder suspects, John Patricia, Burke Ramsey and others. But as a homicide victim, I can't think of literally anyone who has gotten the same level of media exposure as John Bene Ramsey, not even Natalie

Starting point is 00:11:56 Holloway, who infamously disappear almost a decade later in Aruba. Why did her case receive so much coverage? Well, partially because she was a little beauty pageant winner. Let's be honest, America covets its beautiful creatures more than those deemed not as attractive. Beautiful people make the covers of more magazines and tabloids than the ugly people, a live or dead, and they always will. Also I think, my lifetime, at least always because they're also because their family was wealthy, Americans are endlessly fast-n fascinated by opulence. Those who live the lives, so many of us will only dream about.

Starting point is 00:12:29 No one would give two fucks about the Kardashians if they were poor and ugly. I mean, wealth is a big part of the American dream. Is it not? When you hear examples of people making it, it's never tales about them living modestly, barely paying their bills, but being great parents, being heavily involved in their community, you know, doing hands-on charity work. No, it's tales of people coming from nothing, ending up rich as fuck, and then maybe doing some good with that money. Money, we love money, here in America, I love money, I love the freedom it can give you. I get it. And also part of the

Starting point is 00:12:58 fascination surrounding the murder of John Bonnet has to do with children's beauty pageants. How could it not? Back in 1996, over a decade before shows like the at best creepy and at worst, soft core pedophile porn, toddlers and Tierra's. And the so bad I wondered if it was a possible sign of an impending apocalypse. The first time I heard about it, here comes honey boo boo. Very few people even knew these pageants existed. Seeing a six year old girl decked out and make up and outfits that would seem, you know, possibly overly sexual.

Starting point is 00:13:29 They were worn by a 16 year old girl captured the public's attention. They became fascinated because it's so, what the fuck is going on here? It's confusing. Why is this happening? Who dresses their kindergarten like that? Why was your mom so into her being a model at such a young age?

Starting point is 00:13:43 And I mean, seriously, who does that? Who dresses up their six-year-old and bright red lipstick, teases out their hair, puts tons of foundation, a mask, hair, an eyeliner on their face, you know, dressing them up in essentially a mini skirt and cowboy boots and a tight tank top, and as they're dancing and singing for an audience of grown-ups, it's fucking weird! Also takes glamour shots, where she's posed in an obviously sexualized way. Like a photographer asked my 11-year-old daughter to pose in similar ways as I've seen after doing this research, John Benet pose in glamour shots.

Starting point is 00:14:11 I would have a little, what the fuck are you doing bud? Conversation with that guy, telling him he's leaving right now, unless he wants his camera and possibly parts of his perverted body, a broken. Oh my heck! Oh my heck! It gets me fired up. But did her parents have anything to do with her murder? Maybe, maybe not. We'll look hard in both directions. Basic stats on

Starting point is 00:14:30 child murder lean towards the likelihood that John Bene was killed by someone within her own family. But the brutality of the crime points towards someone outside the home. It's a crazy case and it only gets crazier the more you look at it. Spawn dozens of books, documentaries, theories that range from a simple cover up by rich parents to say, Tannic child porn rings, of course, to John, but they've been alive today and performing his pop star, Katie Perry. Seriously, that's a, that's a conspiracy. That's not just some of my Tom Foulery. And yes, we will for sure have an it to the internet segment today. Before we dive into a timeline exploration in this case,

Starting point is 00:15:06 let's take a quick look at some context. Starting with Kitty Pageant Cozure, then a quick little bio for each member of the Boulder Ramsey household. Child Pageantree in America consists of about 250,000 children who compete in around 5,000 pageants nationwide each year. That makes almost 14 pageants for kids a day. Oh my heck, what the fudge? Stinking golly, damn it. I hope that disturbs you as much as it does me, because so many of us straight dudes

Starting point is 00:15:33 are biologically hardwired to want to see women naked, more than we want to see food on our table or the sun keep coming up. We already have more than enough sexualization in society. Right, here are some porn stats I found. Porn sites attract more visitors each month than Amazon and Netflix combined. 30% of all internet content is porn.

Starting point is 00:15:50 56% of divorces involve one spouse having an obsessive interest in online porn. 20% of all mobile web searches are porn. The world in general already struggles with giving women more than just a sexual identity because most of this porn is negative women. So why the fuck would any parent in the right mind want to push their daughter into already being physically objectified when she's only six years old?

Starting point is 00:16:14 I know that's not how they see it, but that is how it's perceived by creeps. She's going to have to deal with that shit soon enough, give her a few years to enjoy her childhood first, let her fart and fucking pick her nose and, you know, show up smelling like fucking hot garbage, you know, a dirt on her face and scraped up knees because she tried doing some sick ass trick on her fucking bike. Let her just be a kid, but I digress. Back to beauty pageants.

Starting point is 00:16:40 Beauty pageants for adult women have existed in one form or another for centuries. For example, medieval Brit celebrated Mayday by having a little, uh, who looks to hottest and long ass form, fit and kind of, or form hiding, I guess more. Poopy White dress show and picking a make queen. Pageants got going in America in the mid 19th century, famous circus entrepreneur, businessman, all around exploitation machine. Hopefully future suck, PT Barnum organized America's first beauty pageant for adult women in

Starting point is 00:17:07 1854 and it did not go well. The public protested. Parading women out in front of men and judging them on their looks was immoral, indecent. It caused quite the kerfluffle. Instead of giving up on the whole idea of judging human beings and meat sacks solely on their physical attractiveness, Barnum thought, well, if they won't let me exploit grown-ass women What if I could exploit some babies? In the very next year in 1855 a national contest Barman orchestrated called the National Baby Show

Starting point is 00:17:35 Attracted 143 child contestants and 61,000 viewers and then baby parades soon became all the rage around the country in the coming Decades and there are still baby pageants today. Quick Google search took me to sunburst beauty.com. John, John Bonnet did some sunburst beauty pageants and they have competitions for girls from the age of just popped out of my mom's baby hole to the age of 27. And that's it. That's it. Nothing for those 28 and up.

Starting point is 00:18:00 I guess, I guess 28 is ancient in the pageant world. Just boo! Get that 28 year old push off the stage. We came here to see some hot kids. If you go to a child or baby page, by the way, I highly encourage you to use the word hot as much as possible and sexy. All right. If they don't want to do, show them by himself. We're in a few of your sunglasses indoors and having his hands in his pockets all the time, standing in the back of the room, just yelling shit like hell, yeah, it's hot ass kids. It's hot ass babies.

Starting point is 00:18:28 How's that I'm talking about? Say sexy a lot. Hot damn, never say somebody sexy kids in one hotel. Woo, look at all those hot sexy babies. If they don't want that, they can stop having fucking weird pageants. That'll fucking shut it down. Annette Dory, an expert on baby contests, explained that many of these baby pageants. That'll fucking shut it down. Anette Dory, an expert on baby contest, explained that many of these baby pageants, babies, have been historically, you know, like

Starting point is 00:18:50 the early one, strip naked and judged by physicians according to a meticulous point system, like they used in cattle judging. That's what the 19th century baby pageants were. That's cool. Yeah, it's not fucked up at all. Hey lady, come grab your degrade baby, get the hell out of here. Where you scare someone, it's a beauty pageant, not an audition for a Halloween house or a horse. Once you take your little sack of fogly, sneak out the back, don't you scare

Starting point is 00:19:15 in our hot sexy babies. Let's type a baby contest one on hiatus in the 1950s as the baby parades. Why? Because people finally decided it's pretty fucked up. Start grade and meet sacks and their physical parents when they're still in diapers JK they didn't care about that at all Kids started getting polio and events where large groups of random children would needlessly congregate in public started to seem like a like a dumb idea

Starting point is 00:19:37 polio and other various, you know communicable diseases Pre-vaccine days. Luckily the polio vaccine became widely available in the late 50s, and wouldn't you know it? By 1961, the youth of America were healthy enough to once again participate in pageants. 1961 America's first official child beauty pageant got going. Yeah, Marshall's, Marshall's hot kids on the stage. Palisades amusement park in Palisades, New Jersey. They're to hold a weekly contest throughout the summer from 1961 to 1971 called Little Miss America.

Starting point is 00:20:07 The contest name was meant to evoke the adult Miss America pageant, which had been run since 1921, but actually was not affiliated with it. And Little Miss America was a big hit. It drew roughly 6,000 competitors each week, and I'm guessing at least twice that many pet files. The massive success of Little Miss America pageants did not go unnoticed by other people who liked to make money and or work with hot kids. Regional child beauty pageants began to spring up unlike Little Miss America, which is free

Starting point is 00:20:34 to enter and had no dress requirements or talent competition. These new competitions mimicked adult pageants more, offering contestants the chance to compete in categories like talent and party wear. These pageants developed into various children pageants that we know and hate today. The worst one I found, did you know that there is now an annual pageant in Las Vegas for eight to 13 year old girls called LMH, ho down. Yep, the little Miss hustler ho down. One of the categories, pole fitness, because of all the pole fitness classes, nine

Starting point is 00:21:01 year olds in G strings doing stripper moves in front of middle aged dudes, judges, an audience of primarily men who are allowed to take as many pictures as they want, as long as the flash turned off. That's fine, just, you know, no flash. That's the only rules, kids, crotch shots, that's fine. There's no flash. There's also a T's competition where the kids dance

Starting point is 00:21:19 on a catwalk and take off their clothes. They go all the way down to their underwear, and because their kids is not illegal for them to go topless. So they can even take off their tops and they do and they end up bare-chested in front of these fucking dudes. It's gross. And if you don't believe that it's real, go ahead and check it out for yourself.

Starting point is 00:21:32 Go to their website. It's www.getthefuckoutaher.com. No, not yet. None of that stuff is happening yet. Hopefully you never will. I hope you're outrage for a moment there. If you heard all of that and you didn't think it was a big deal, I want you to focus less on podcasts.

Starting point is 00:21:50 I want you to focus a lot more on therapy. If you heard all that and you're like, ah, fucking, where can I give my ticket? I want you to get some help. I want you to get some real help. And it's, our pageants is bad as all that. No, I, not I guess. I mean, I know a lot, I'm sure a lot of the people

Starting point is 00:22:03 running them have a completely different look at it, but I do look at it like you're just like advertising your kid for fucking pedophiles. When you dress them up and close it, I don't know how some of these people rationalize them, not being sexually provocative. I mean, it's, it really, and I'm not approved, but I swear to God, a lot of these outfits,

Starting point is 00:22:23 it's been row was wearing them at 16, I'm like, whoa, where, where are you going? I thought you were going to to God, a lot of these outfits. It been row was wearing them at 16. I'd be like, whoa, where are you going? I thought you were going to school, not a nightclub. Oh, okay, now they're wrong with a little bit of knowledge about the Kitty porn. I mean, Kitty Paget World. Let's take a look at the Ramses. To understand the murder of John Boneye Ramsy,

Starting point is 00:22:37 we first have to understand the fam. Let's start with John Boneye. John Boneye Patricia Ramsey was born on August 6, 1990 in Atlanta, Georgia. She would be just barely 29 years old today if she was still alive, so crazy, she would die so young that if she died today, she'd still be young. And she died over 20 years ago.

Starting point is 00:22:56 She was a daughter of Beauty Queen, the niece of another Beauty Queen. She's a daughter of Patsy and John. Jean-Bene was named after a feminized version of her father's first and middle names, John Bennett, also giving her mother's name as a middle name. John Bene, Patricia Ramsey, and these people, a little vein, I feel like. As always, we never understood that. You need to put your name in the names of your kids.

Starting point is 00:23:15 I must make another me! I'm the son of a Dan. Neither one of my kids have names that have anything to do with my first name or middle name, which is Brent. Neither one of my kids are named after anyone of my do with my first name or middle name, which is Brent. Neither one of my kids are named after anyone of my family, but I guess I do have my last name, which, you know, for I'll be honest, I like. But if it was culturally normal to give kids different last names, I wouldn't care. To me, researching this, it felt like Patricia wanted to clone herself, right?

Starting point is 00:23:39 Her daughter has her name, her middle name, and she did pageants, she makes her daughter do pageants. She seems to hyper, hyper focused on her daughter. Daughter seemed like more like a doll to her than a human being. I mean, clearly you're getting pushed hard in that direction when you do this stuff at the age of like fourth, I think even younger, three, four, five. I mean, she was a Pagin girl raised by Pagin mom and her life revolved around rehearsals, costumes, getting made up to look pretty and competing, not doing typical kid stuff.

Starting point is 00:24:05 It's like she was more like a show dog or a show pony than a human being. Jean-Banet was the youngest of two children, at least on her mother's side. Her brother Burke was nine at the time for murder, was three years older. By age six, Jean-Banet had already won multiple national pageant titles. Thanks for our bouncy blonde hair, naturally poised smile, glittery costumes. Check it out the resume of a girl who only lived for less than six and a half years on this planet. This is a partial list.

Starting point is 00:24:30 Colorado State All-Star Kids Pageant, April 94. Little Miss Charlotte Boy, July 94. Miss Colorado Sunburst. There's that Sunburst one, October 95. America's Royale, Tiny Miss, Division Title, July 96. America's Royale, tiny miss, division title July 96. America's Royale miss Colorado dream queen July 96. I guess it's the same one. Sunburst national pageant second place August 96.

Starting point is 00:24:53 Colorado's list a little miss Christmas December 17th 96. Colorado's All Stars Christmas pageant, metal for talent. Just a few days before she died December 22nd, 96. And unfortunately, there's not a lot else to say when it comes to John Bonet's life since it was very short. On the surface, he seemed outgoing and confident, was given a plush and comfortable life. And one documentary I saw her room,

Starting point is 00:25:17 her bedroom, and she had her own bathroom. She had her own Christmas tree right before the holidays, giant, virtually life-sized sandal, and this little couch she had in a room. Looked like she was given whatever she wanted tons and tons of toys. She seemed to be the center of her parents' worlds, very, very privileged childhood

Starting point is 00:25:34 before such a tragic end. I know a lot of comedians in New York who would love to live in an apartment the size of John Benet's old bedroom. They'd also love to be able to furnish that apartment with the same budget that was clearly used to furnish her room. Now more on her parents starting with her father, John. John Bennett Ramsey, born December 7, 1943, Lincoln, Nebraska. Ramsey moved with his

Starting point is 00:25:54 family to Okamost, Michigan at the age of 14. His father, Jay, was a debt grader World War II pilot before becoming a director of the Michigan Aeronautics Commission. As a teenager, Ramsey competed in cross country, played the band, nurtured a love of aviation he inherited from his father. He joined ROTC at Michigan State University, where he also met his first wife, Lucinda Cindy, Louposh, the, uh, the Cindy Lou. The two college sweethearts were married in 1966, moved to the Philippines, where Ramsey spent two years as a Navy pilot. Shortly after they returned to Michigan, Cindy gave birth to their first daughter, Elizabeth in July of 69.

Starting point is 00:26:31 Ramsey earned a master's degree in marketing for Michigan State in 71, got a job in Michigan, a couple had her. Their second child, another daughter, Melinda in 72. After working locally for two years, John accepted an Atlanta sales job with an electronics engineering company in 73 before eventually striking out on his own. He and his wife had their third child, John Andrew in 1976 before divorcing in 1978. And then the summer of 79, 35 year old John met 22 year old 1977, Miss Virginia, Patricia Ann Pa, rebounding with a, with a model 13 years younger, I'm sure his ex Cindy loved that. I think it was, and I, and I have my notes, Mr. and maybe West Virginia. It's

Starting point is 00:27:11 not a, it's not a crucial detail to this narrative. It may be 1977, West, uh, Miss West Virginia, uh, because that is where she grew up. Um, anyway, uh, yeah, I'm sure Cindy loved that. I'm sure she was thrilled to drop her kids off with an ex husband and his hot young model wife. On November 15th, 1980, John, Patricia Ann, who would go by patty got married. They would continue to live in Atlanta near John's ex. And apparently they did get along pretty well. Uh, for the next six years, they fucked so, so much.

Starting point is 00:27:39 You know, they did. John didn't marry a young model, mostly for conversation. I mean, let's be honest. He didn't, a young model mostly for conversation. I mean, let's be honest. He didn't, you know, he didn't. On January 27th, 1977, Patricia gave birth to Sun Burke. John's fourth child and second son. In 1987, Ramsey also founded a tech firm called Advanced Products Group in Roswell, suburb of Atlanta.

Starting point is 00:27:59 Business boomed. A year later, two years later, excuse me, 1989, advanced products merged with CAD sources, Incorporated of Piscataway, New Jersey, and CAD distributors, Incorporated of Boulder, Colorado, to form access graphics, a computer distribution corporation that would be headquartered in Boulder, access graphics was a business to business wholesaler, buying computer systems for manufacturers, then reselling them to other companies. I would talk a little more about it in detail, but I don't want to put everyone in sleep.

Starting point is 00:28:31 They made a lot of money doing boring shit. By 1996, the year of John Bonaise murder, the company would employ about 600 techies worldwide by about 350 those people who would work at the Boulder headquarters. Then in August 6, 1990, John and Patsy had the little girl, Mrs. Ramsey had dreamed of John Bane and Atlanta. John's third daughter, Patsy's first, and within a year of John Bane's birth in 1991, the family moves to Boulder. So John could run the growing company he was president and CEO of, be president at the

Starting point is 00:28:55 headquarters. Also in 91, 47 year old John sells access graphics to Lockheed Martin, an American global aerospace defense, security, and advanced technology's company, major part of the military industrial complex, Aluminati. Lockheed kept him on to run the company. Life is going very well. His company's growing. He's making stacks and stacks of cash.

Starting point is 00:29:16 He and his ex-wife are amicable. He sees his kids often. Then in January of 92 tragedy strikes, John's oldest daughter Elizabeth died suddenly in a tragic car accident in Chicago at the age of 22, less than 18 months after the birth of John Bane. For the next four years, following Elizabeth's death, life would spare John any additional hardships. John returned to work quickly following his daughter's death, continued to grow his company.

Starting point is 00:29:39 John's first two kids remained healthy. Yeah, first two kids remained healthy and he traveled to Atlanta's office. You could have seen them and his family and Boulder thrived. Burke was doing well in grade school. Jean-Benae was rocking the page and seen. Patsy stayed at home, ran the family's social life. John worked lots of hours continuing to make a lot of money.

Starting point is 00:29:57 By 1996, the family's net worth was estimated at $6.4 million. And that's 1996 money. Frustin' it by 96, John also owned two planes that he flew himself three homes beginning to negotiate another buyout for his company. General Electric was getting ready to buy access graphics from Lockheed Martin for a lot of cash. He'd be getting an untold amount of money in that sale. He was rich. He looked like he was going to be wealthy soon.

Starting point is 00:30:22 Personality-wise, he was described by friends as exceedingly quiet, calm and collected. According to family friends, John murdering anyone, especially his daughter in a fit of rage, you know, one of the many theories proposed highly unlikely. He only ever seemed to lose his temper about money. And check this out. This is so sad to me. The daily camera, Boulder's newspaper published an article about John's business success just five days before John Bonaise murder on December 21, 1996.

Starting point is 00:30:49 The headline read, Axis celebrates $1 billion mark. There's a picture of John sitting at his desk looking so happy, so proud, and in less than a week his life would completely unravel. Photos like that always weird me out, right? Where you know, obviously with time elapsing, you know there's something really bad happened not long after that photo. But in that photo, the person being photographed has no fucking idea, right? And in this particular photo, life was going so, so well. And then we know, man, just days later, everything went to shit. Man, you can drive, easily drive yourself insane thinking about things like that you know how I think those photos creep me out that you know because I think about that

Starting point is 00:31:29 for me that's what we all do we we personalized this stuff and I'm like well shit things are going well now today today's a great day for me what's gonna happen tomorrow we're gonna have the day after that I think it's good to remind yourself if you spiral on that is that things also can go a lot better and most of the time the overwhelming majority of the time, things don't fall apart tomorrow. Okay, anyway, here's a little excerpt from that article. When Boulder-based computer distributor access graphics incorporated past to $1 billion mark in 1996 revenues, it tossed a luncheon party at the hotel Boulderado on Friday. A Dixieland jazz band made the rounds at access Boulder offices Friday morning to announce the celebration later played at the Boulder Rotto. John Ramsey, president of

Starting point is 00:32:08 Access Graphics, thanked about 300 employees at the gathering, told him it couldn't have happened without them. The $1 billion in sales is about a 25% increase over the 800 million the company posted last year. And Ramsey for C's continued growth. Again, man, future is looking bright. Sky was looking blue. Woo. Yeah, five days before his daughter gets killed. Honor around the 21st Lockheed Martin also gave John a Christmas bonus of $118,000. Papa Ramsey, Rich, even tempered, super successful computer guy in charge of a growing corporation, a business star and boulder, making somewhere between, oh my heck, that's a lot of gosh darn money. And what the fudge?

Starting point is 00:32:46 What could you even buy with all that for flip, sake? And he had a hot wife 13 years younger than him. And not bad, not bad. Now let's meet his second wife, Patricia Anne Ramsey called Patsy by her friends and family, born to December 29th, 1956, and the tiny 450 person town of Gilbert, West Virginia. Gilbert is just 14 miles from the Hatfield cemetery of the Hatfield McCoy feud fame. Ha, fuck off. Oh, yeah, yeah. Gilbert just a few miles from where the Hatfields used to fight the McCoys on the West Virginia Kentucky

Starting point is 00:33:15 border. All right, Patsy would be the oldest of three girls born to Donald and Nedra Pa. Whoo, Nedra.ikes. It's a rough name. Not a sexy name. Sorry to the Nedras, listen. No word about mom and Nedra competing in any pageants. Probably wasn't allowed to sign up with that name. Hi, I'm Nedra. I'm here to sign up for the beauty pageant.

Starting point is 00:33:35 No, you're not. Now we just closed. We just closed right now. Just right now when you walked up, when we heard that your name was Lady Ned. We have a no-lady net rule here at the Pagents. According to a Washington Post article as a young girl, Mrs. Ramsey developed reputation as being a straight-error leader who studied hard, enjoyed performing. She was like to do drama, frequently thought of others first.

Starting point is 00:33:58 In high school, Mrs. Ramsey discovered her love of beauty pageants, excuse me, becoming runner up, first runner up in the Miss Teen Age West Virginia. And here we go. Here comes a crazy. She began competing for the ultimate crown of Miss America a few years later, West Virginia University, where she belonged to the Alpha Z Delta Sorority.

Starting point is 00:34:15 She stopped thinking of others first and stopped talking to ugly people altogether. I don't know if that's true actually. She was runner up in two preliminary competitions before winning the Miss West Virginia title. Okay, so it was West Virginia. There we go. As a sophomore, 1977, at the national pageant, she took home a talent award and a $2,000 scholarship for younger sister Pamela was also crowned Miss West Virginia 1980. Oh, the pause dominating that Nedras daughters. Look at

Starting point is 00:34:41 fucking little lady nids offspring crushing those beauty pageants. That was the first time I set a sister to won the state title. Before that 1979, she graduated with a degree in journalism marketing, move to Atlanta, where mutual friends quickly introduced her to John Ramsey, and then she would marry him the next year. Things moved fast. Pazzi was a Southern bell and a socialite. She made sure that both the John's daughters from his first marriage were given lavish birthday parties. She did seem like a good stepmom,

Starting point is 00:35:08 coming from Gilbert, which is pretty damn po-dunk. She must have loved being a young, rich, socialite living in hot Atlanta. She became involved in numerous charities, like a lady's charity called Society, T-E-A. She was also a dedicated volunteer at the Women's Junior League. Patricia was also way into her daughter's pageant career. She was a total pageant mom.

Starting point is 00:35:29 It was her thing. She loved dressing Jambane up, doing her hair, putting her in pageant clothes, hiring coaches, talking to other pageant moms. Which again, makes me feel like she thought of Jambane more of a toy doll than a daughter. She was like a living, breathing Barbie. Sure, she loved her, but still weird to me. Neighborhood later recalled that one time time, John Bonet came downstairs as Patsy was having a conversation with a neighbor.

Starting point is 00:35:48 Another neighbor, the neighbor was shocked because John Bonet suddenly had bleach blonde hair. When the last time the neighbor had seen her, her hair was clearly light brown. When this neighbor asked Patsy about it, she said it was just from the sun and Michigan. Nope. Patsy was dying her daughter's hair. From the time John Bonet was five years old,

Starting point is 00:36:03 getting that hair dyed blonde, because you gotta be pretty here. Who's gonna love you if you're not pretty? In 1993, Patsy was diagnosed with a variant cancer, what was in remission by 1995. Even rich pretty people can get sick, sad reminder, you can't get to a place in life where you just insulated from anything bad happening to you.

Starting point is 00:36:20 That's kind of this story too. Maybe that's another reason the story fascinated and continues to fast into general public. To remind you that no matter how much asked you're kicking in life, life can still mother fuck you. Happy thoughts. My heck, my heck, I apologies for the language and that was quite dark. Now let's talk about Patsy's first child, John Bonnet's older brother, Burke. Burke Hamilton Ramsey. That's a regal name. Burke Hamilton Ramsey. Born on January regal name. Burke Hamilton Ramsey. Born on January 27th, 1987 in Atlanta, Jordan, I feel like some trumpets went off when he

Starting point is 00:36:50 was born. I present you, Burke Hamilton Ramsey. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. We don't know a ton about him. Other than he wasn't cute enough to compete in little boy pads, and so mom probably loved him less. I mean, that's how it works, right? Right?

Starting point is 00:37:03 I don't know. Actually, some do think that he was the least favorite and jealousy may have fueled an accidental murder. After childhood of wealth, Burke Ramsey had his life started to chaos for years after his sister's murder, probably because at nine he was a murder suspect. The subsequent extensive publicity

Starting point is 00:37:17 of his sister's murder was reported to the chaotic nightmare for Burke. Of course it was. I watched an interview with his dad, John conducted years after John Bonay's murder where he said that immediately after the murder, they pulled Burke from school for a while, made sure to limit his exposure to paparazzi and just, you know, socialization in general. Keep away from nosy neighbors, prying eyes, tried hard to protect him from the media circus, you know, that, you know, quickly enveloped

Starting point is 00:37:39 them when they became suspects. And then the first time they let Burke go to the grocery store after a sister's death months later, he see the tabloid cover with his sisters picture on it and a headline accusing him of murdering her. Fuck. It was devastated. Of course he was. Burke's relationship with his sister was less than perfect as many sibling relationships are to be fair. He may have had a little more anger towards his little sister than, than some big brothers. Family friend and photographer Judith Miller would later say that Patsy told her Burke had actually, uh, actually struck Jean-Bene in the face with a golf club a year and a half prior to her murder.

Starting point is 00:38:12 Hard enough for her to need stitches. So you get a small cosmetic procedure from the plastic surgeon to avoid scarring. Mama can't have a bust up Barbie doll. Gotta get that little face ready for the camera. Who's gonna love you? Burke and the family said it was an accident, maybe it was. But later, Patsy would try and change the dates, attach to this story, saying the Burke was five or six years old,

Starting point is 00:38:32 when he did it was actually seven. So that's, you know, just odd detail. Maybe she forgot, maybe not a big deal, or maybe Burke, you know, hated his sister, it was getting increasingly violent towards her. Judith Phillips, a Ramsey friend, for more than 10 years, a local photographer, said this about the golf club incident many years later.

Starting point is 00:38:47 I think Burke had a bad temper. It's like he had a chip on his shoulder. He had hit John Bene, before the murder, I would have to say it was probably a year and a half. They were playing in the yard, and apparently he hit her with the golf club right here, points the area under her eye. She Patsy said the kids were playing,

Starting point is 00:39:01 Burke lost his temper and hit her with a golf club. Kuddy have lost his temper again and hit her with something else and killed her in 1996. And then could the family have tried to stage another crime scene or say, you know, make it look like a different type of crime, stage of crime, see to make it look like an intruder did it. That is a popular theory. Also former New York City prosecutor retired FBI supervisory special agent and pro-filer Jim Clemente and former in new Scotland yard

Starting point is 00:39:25 criminal behavioral analysis, Laura Richards, who examined the John Bene case for a 2006 teen 2016 CBS docu series discovered during their investigation that apparently Burke had committed what they called some scatological infractions as a child. Scatological infractions, meaning that he spread feces, his own, around the Ramsey's bathroom and even around John Bene's bedroom, time or two. Peanut butter, showbiz, out of town, there's no Hollywood. Spreading his shit on the walls of a sister's room, yikes. Oh my heck, that seems pretty hateful.

Starting point is 00:40:01 My little sister, Donna, annoyed the shit out of me all the time growing up, but I never hit her in the face with a blunt instrument, hard enough to send her to the doctor. And I definitely didn't literally, uh, or didn't smear literal shit on the walls of a room. That's, uh, some next level anger. The same investigators also watched a video of Burke with the therapist shortly after his sister's death and they were bothered by how just, uh, relaxed he was when he was asked if he was worried about a killer his sister's killer specifically coming for him and uh... he wasn't worried at all he said like i'm just gonna do my life he's very calm and you know why would he be worried about a killer coming for him

Starting point is 00:40:34 if he was the killer but we had a head of myself will talk about uh... who may have killed john bennett and why soon enough and in detail overall bursing to be pretty well behave kid when he wasn't whacking his sister in the face with the golf club or wiping his shit on the walls for bedroom. And now that we know a little bit about the family, let's get into today's timeline, starting just a few days before Jean-Benaise murder, right after a word from today's

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Starting point is 00:44:16 Kindergarten and the cordon knowledge program is fast paced and five full days a week. She has already been moved ahead to the first grade math. She continues to enjoy participating in talent and modeling pageants. She was named America's Roy Altani Miss last summer and is Colorado's Little Miss Christmas. Her teacher says she is so outgoing she will never have trouble delivering an oral book report. Merry Christmas and much love, the Ramses. Earlier they wrote a less flattering message about their son, Burke, in the Christmas letter writing, Burke is doing very well.

Starting point is 00:44:44 He hasn't hit anyone with a golf club all year and he has barely smeared his feces on anything. He wiped down a few of John Bonaise dolls in a dollhouse with the tiniest bit of poop and may have rubbed a little bit on our pillows around Thanksgiving, but that's it. We're super proud of him. Now they had nice things to say about Burke as well. On December 23rd, the Ramsey's hosted a Christmas party where approximately 30 guests attended, including former journalism professor Bill McRennels, who played Santa Claus.

Starting point is 00:45:12 This poor bastard would end up being a suspect in all of this. The suspect I feel the sorry is for in some ways. The next day, Christmas Eve was a busy day for the Ramsey's as well. An article appeared in the Boulder Daily Camera regarding success of the Ramsey Christmas party the day before. It's be a slow news day. According to various reports, John Bene played her friend Megan, Costanix House that day. Ramsey's also attended the Twilight Service that night at St. John's Episcopal Church in Boulder. By 9 p.m., the kids have been sent to gather gifts that were stashed in a hardly used basement room. And John Ramsey retrieved a brand new silver girls bike store to neighbor Joe Barnhill's garage placed under the Christmas tree for John Bane.

Starting point is 00:45:49 Now, on Christmas day 1996, John Bane received her bike and her other guests, of course, she was pumped. And I imagine Patsy, you know, immediately talked to her about how careful she needed to be. I had to be very careful. Always wear a helmet on that bike, elbow pads, knee pads, wrist guards, riding gloves, God forbid, she crashed and skin a knee, get some sort of scar. What would the judges think? You won't be as pretty. Around noon and Christmas, John left for the airfield to check on one of his planes. He returned between two and three p.m.

Starting point is 00:46:16 Around five or six p.m. the Ramsey's left for a Christmas party at Fleet and Priscilla White's home. It was reported that nothing out of the ordinary happened to this party. Fleet would soon become another suspect in the murder, many, many suspects. Fleet also has the most stereotypical rich white guy name in history. Fleet? White. And of course his wife is named Priscilla. The guy named Fleet doesn't marry a Nedra. No lady neds for all fleet. Anyway in the drive home from the party, Jean-Benaing or brother at Burke fell asleep in the car. The Ramsey before heading home dropped gifts off that Stuart and Roxy Walker's house and

Starting point is 00:46:48 then Glenn and Susan Steinshomes, so many rich white people, Stuart and Fleet. Surprise we haven't met an archibald. Upon arriving home, John put Jean-Benaire to bed, played a game with Burke before Burke went to bed. Jean-Benaire's last seen a live around 10 p.m. Lane safely asleep in her bed. Lane safely asleep in her bed. The next morning around midnight, neighbor Scott Gibbons looked at his kitchen window with the Ramsey residents. Observe the upper kitchen lights were on and dimmed low. Does this mean an intruder was in the house?

Starting point is 00:47:09 Would an intruder turn on the lights if they were? I doubt it. Did it mean that someone from the Ramsey household was still awake? Nobody said they were in the house. They were in the house. They were in the house. They were in the house. They were in the house.

Starting point is 00:47:21 They were in the house. They were in the house. They were in the house. They were in the house. They were in the house. They were in the house. They were this mean an intruder was in the house? Would it intruder turn on the lights if they were? I doubt it. Did it mean that someone from the Ramsey household was still awake? Nobody said they were. More likely though, it's just only getting up for a snack, still wanting down for the day, thinking about a cover-up of murder. A two-am, another neighbor, Melody Stinn allegedly hears a scream from within the Ramsey's home. Her husband then reportedly hears the sound of metal on concrete sometime after the scream.

Starting point is 00:47:47 Years later, Melody would backtrack on that statement, stating that she actually heard the noise two nights prior if at all, memory, such a funny thing. It seems to be the most reliable, right, you know, when you're closest to the event time wise, you know, closest to the incident you're trying to call, recall, which just makes sense. Like if something happened to you a few hours ago

Starting point is 00:48:04 and you had to go give a police report about it an hour from now, don't you think that your report is going to be more accurate than if you had to describe what happened 10 years from now? That's a big problem with this investigation. People say one thing, years later they say another, yeah, we've learned about false memory syndrome multiple times here on the, on the suck, memory, very, very tricky thing. Things we think can be so real can be completely made up in our heads the morning of December 26th the family gets up at 5.30

Starting point is 00:48:30 a.m. they were supposed to fly to charlotte void michigan for the little family vacation at the one of the other homes. while mr ramsey took a shower Mrs ramsey put back on the same outfit she had on the night before reapplied her makeup that's what what she would say. Find this a bit odd for a lady who like to, you know, show how together, you know, put together she was, but they were going on vacation. So maybe she was in vacation mode and just didn't care. It does seem suspicious if you think that she could have been one of the ones that did it

Starting point is 00:48:57 or the one who did it. I found a few reports that said, Patsy Ramsey also went to the second floor of her home to rents out a pair of Jean-Benaise jumpsuit pajamas that she had apparently soiled the night before and went downstairs to the kitchen to make coffee. Many have speculated that anger over Jean Bonaise continual bed wedding led to Patie's role in an accidental murder and then intentional cover up around 5.45 a.m. Mrs. Ramsey heads

Starting point is 00:49:18 downstairs and reports finding a two and a half page note on a back staircase in the house. Patie says she only initially read a bit of the note. Read Jean-Benae being kidnapped, was safe and unharmed, and then the kidnappers wanted $118,000 in cash. More on this crazy note in a bid upon reading part of that note, Patty reportedly immediately screened,

Starting point is 00:49:37 proceeded to check Jean-Benae's room. She found it to be empty. After hearing Mrs. Ramsey's scream, Mr. Ramsey ran downstairs, met Mrs. Ramsey and the stairwell. Together, they checked on their son who appeared to be asleep in his room. Mr. Ramsey then went downstairs to read the ransom note while Mrs. Ramsey immediately called the police. Patsy dials 9-1-1 at 5.52 AM. She's understandably hysterical. Doesn't answer the operator's questions very well. Here's a short transcript of this 911 call. Patsy Ramsey starts with,

Starting point is 00:50:06 police, what's going on, ma'am? 755, 15th Street, what's going on there, ma'am? We have a kidnapping, hurry, please. Explain to me what's going on, okay? There we have it, there's a note left, and our daughter's gone. A note was left and your daughter's gone. Yes, how old is your daughter?

Starting point is 00:50:24 She's six, six years old, she's blonde, six years old. She just won Colorado's Little Miss Christmas on December 17th. She got a medal for talent in the Colorado All Star Christmas pageant, just four days ago. Please help, we have a Michigan pageant in four days. You have to help me find, we have a hair bleach you know, point me tomorrow.

Starting point is 00:50:40 It's really hard to be scheduled, Georgia. Please, we have rhythm work to go over. The choreographer is meeting us at noon. Play, how can you do this to me? I'm sorry, that was pretty gross, but I had to figure break it up. I knew going in, that was tasteless, but I felt compelled to continue.

Starting point is 00:50:56 You know what, I'll show myself out. I'll show myself out. All Patsy actually said it was, it's you, six years old. She's blonde, six years old, back to the real transcript. All right. How long ago was this? I don't know, I just you six years old. She's blonde, six years old, back to the real transcript. All right. How long ago was this? I don't know, I just got the note. My daughter's gone.

Starting point is 00:51:09 Does it say who took her? What? Does it say who took her? No, I don't know. There's a ransom note here. It's a ransom note. It says S-B-T-C victory, please. Okay, what's your name?

Starting point is 00:51:21 Are you, Patsy Ramsey? I'm the mother. Oh my God, please. Okay, I'm sending an officer over, okay? Please. Do you know how long she's your name? Are you, Patsy Ramsey? I'm the mother. Oh my God, please. Okay, I'm sending an officer over, okay? Please, do you know how long she's been gone? No, I don't. Please, we just got up. She's not here.

Starting point is 00:51:32 Oh my God, please. Okay, please send somebody. I am honey, please take a deep breath. Hurry, hurry, hurry, Patsy. Patsy, Patsy, Patsy. Patsy hangs up the phone, which many forensic psychologists have questioned. When you're in a situation like that, when your daughter has just been taken, you don't

Starting point is 00:51:50 know who's in the house, you don't know if other members of your family are still in danger, the phone is your lifeline to the outside world. Why would you hang it up? However, to play devil's advocate, everyone handles tragedy and stress differently. If you're panicking, who knows what you're going to do? Also we actually asked a couple of our law enforcement friends about 911 hangups and they'll tragedy and stress differently. If you're panicking, who knows what you're gonna do? Also, we actually asked a couple of our law enforcement friends about 911 hangups and they said it happens all the time, but check out this very interesting twist

Starting point is 00:52:11 on the hangup. Patsy puts down the phone because she thinks she's hung up the phone, but it didn't hang up all the way. The operator can still hear vaguely what's going on. No one is quite sure what happens after this because the tape is very fuzzy, but it's been the subject of a lot of investigation by everyone from the FBI to the secret service. The Boulder Police Department would later send this tape to a company called the Aerospace Corporation, which then analyzed it with super sophisticated sound enhancement equipment.

Starting point is 00:52:39 Aerospace never releases its findings. The Jean-Bonnaie case is still open technically in Boulder, so they still won't release it, but the National Enquirer supposedly got a hold of this audio footage and leaked it in 2003. And I know, I know. It's a national inquire. Just about the least reliable news outlet in the world, not quite as bad as the weekly world news and tales of Batboy, but not good.

Starting point is 00:52:58 However, Boulder's daily camera also reported on the enhanced audio right when the inquire leaked it and reported, quote, the general content of the transcript in the supermarket tabloid is accurate, according to sources familiar with the investigation. So I think it's definitely worth sharing this. Here is the transcript of what may have been said after Patsy thought she'd hung up the phone. Patsy can then be heard saying, help me Jesus, help me Jesus. Then in the distance, there's another voice thought to be John Bonaise brother Burke and this is very important.

Starting point is 00:53:28 This voice says, please, what do I do? And then John Ramsey, you know, we think can be heard saying sharply to Burke, we're not speaking to you. And then patty says, help me Jesus, help me Jesus. And then she may have also said, it's very tricky to properly decide for this, even for the audio experts, but she may have also said it's very tricky to properly decipher this even for the audio experts, but she may have also said, what did you do? Help me Jesus.

Starting point is 00:53:51 Then more clearly, Burke can be her saying, what did you find? This doesn't prove anything about who committed the actual murders, but the Ramsey would later tell the police that Burke was asleep the entire time. If they're lying about that, why? Furthermore, although the operator couldn't tell what they were saying at the time, without the enhanced audio, she would later report that the tone dramatically changed when Patsy thought the phone was hung up. Patsy was no longer hysterically babbling, but talking quietly. While John spoke clearly and deliberately, and Burke didn't seem scared or worried. In a recent CBS documentary, the

Starting point is 00:54:25 case of Jean-Bunet Ramsey, this operator says that it sounded rehearsed and she wished initial lead investigators had heard her side of the story. Very interesting. Before we continue with the timeline of this case, let's look further into this ransom note. It's very odd. Maybe the most important clue in this whole case for the sake of being thorough. I'm going to read the whole thing. Mr. Ramsey, listen carefully. We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. Like what?

Starting point is 00:54:55 Small foreign faction. No part of me believe for a second. That's true. Two sentences in and this feels more like a Nigerian email scam than it does a real ransom note. Now, just like some bullshit like we transfer can much monies into account. Please praise God, have no time much of due to illness, bank contact cannot take needed transfer.

Starting point is 00:55:15 Could you help out of goodness heart and give us bank info for us to wire much funds to you? If you could wire just small amount of $1,000 US to us to authorize transfer, we feel trust to wire you $1 million knowing you are a good person of God. All right, back to the real note. We do respect your business, but not the country that it serves. At this time, we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed.

Starting point is 00:55:40 And if you want to see her, no, if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter. You will withdraw $118,000 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attach A to the bank. When you get home, you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting, so I advise you to be arrested.

Starting point is 00:56:13 If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier delivery pickup of your daughter. Any deviation of mind-structions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. Any deviation of mind's instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you, so I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as the police, FBI, etc. will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray

Starting point is 00:56:47 dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices. And if any are found, she dies. I feel like the author should have led with any of those last reasons and skipped the first straight out part. It's a weird tonal shift, right? To open a nonsensical and then go, you know, very realistic. If we catch you widdling a small tugboat out of Balsa wood by seashore, the carry handwritten note placed in Ziploc sandwich bag for it not to get wet and put it out to sea for perhaps

Starting point is 00:57:22 one-legged pirate to find and try and kill us with cutler sword or antique ship cannon. She dies. Also, don't call police. Make sure bills are unmarked. Nothing bigger than a 50. Don't leave home until all financial arrangements have been made or have been me. I'll fuck it with back to the real note again. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand in 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain, John.

Starting point is 00:57:58 You are not the only fat cat around, so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good Southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now, John. Victory. SBTC. Okay, many investigators were going to claim that the single best piece of evidence that ties Mrs. Ramsey to this crime is this ransom note. Mrs. Ramsey would flatly deny having anything to do with notes creation. Obviously, she would do that that whether she was innocent or guilty. As far as ransom notes go, this one is very long, very verbose. In fact, it's one of the longest ransom notes in the history

Starting point is 00:58:33 of kidnapping cases. It could have been just four sentences. We have the girl withdraw $118,000 and unmarked non-sequential bills from the bank. Do not alert authorities or the girl dies. We will contact you between eight and ten tomorrow to tell you how to deliver the money to us Why would someone take that much time to write out a ransom note in the home of someone whose daughter they just killed Whoever did it. Yeah, I wrote it did write it in the Ramsey home. I mean people believe I mean, you know Some think they wrote it beforehand and brought it But that would mean that they would have had to come in at previous time and take the stationery from Patsy's

Starting point is 00:59:09 no pet, because the paper came from the house. That's definitive. That doesn't seem likely. The no was dragged from paper taken from the middle of a pad located within the Ramsey home, written with the pen found in the Ramsey home, the pen in the paper belonged to Patsy, additional sheets were missing from the pad

Starting point is 00:59:23 and were never located in the Ramsey home. Finally there was another page in the pad that had Mr and Mrs. I, comma written on it, which may have been an early fall start, like a start of a rough draft of the ransom note. Based on a CBS documentary recreation of the note, it takes 21 minutes, just to copy the entire note out by hand. And you would think it would have taken longer to write it initially because you'd have to think about what you're writing. Over 20 minutes is a long time just to chill out, write a note in an active crime scene when someone could walk up and you know, catch you at any time. Someone coming in and taking a jambane from her bed and

Starting point is 00:59:57 as you'll see, never leaving the property with her, killing her, possibly sexually assaulted her, then sitting down and writing this note seems highly unlikely to me. Now let's talk about handwriting analysis. During the initial murder investigation in an attempt to determine who wrote the note, the Boulder Police Department and Boulder County District Attorney's Office consulted at least six different handwriting experts. All of these experts consulted the original ransom note and compared it to original handwriting samples from both Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey. Four of these experts were hired by the police, two were hired by the Ramsey's, all six experts agreed that Mr. Ramsey could be eliminated as the author of the note. These same six consulted experts did not eliminate Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the

Starting point is 01:00:36 ransom note, their reaction was mixed. On a scale of 1 to 5 with 5 being definitive elimination as the author of the note, the experts hired by the Ramsey's placed Mrs. Ramsey overall somewhere between a four and a 4.5. Describe the chance of Mrs. Ramsey being the author of the note is very low. The analyst hired by murder investigators, however, think Mrs. Ramsey might be the author. And recently in 2016, when a 2020 special aired 20 years after the murder, to additional analysts, Gideon Epstein and Seen a Wong, professional handwriting experts who have worked on hundreds of investigations, think that it is highly likely that Mrs. Ramsey wrote the ransom note. Sena Wong said, it's highly probable that she wrote the ransom note.

Starting point is 01:01:15 If she did write the note, does that mean that she killed her daughter? No. But it means she has something to do with it. It's very late she knew who the fuck did. And if it wasn't her, very likely her husband or son Also an investigator closely involved with the testing of the ransom note said out of the 74 names submitted for testing Pat's handwriting was the only one that set off alarm bells A Colorado Bureau of Investigation CBI report concluded there are indications that the author of the Ransom note is pat a Patricia Ramsey But the evidence follows short to support that definitive conclusion. Over 100 total samples of different people's handwriting were given to law enforcement

Starting point is 01:01:50 investigators over the course of John Bonaise, initial homicide investigation. Every single one were proven as definitively not matching the note except patty. Her handwriting sample was the one and only one that showed a result of inconclusive. Couple more interesting points to be made about to know before you move on. And actually, really quick before I get to these votes, this remembering something I didn't even put in my notes, the type of pen she used was a specific type of pen. It wasn't ballpoint that apparently makes it a little extra hard to get a definitive conclusion. So some of the handwriting and analysts think that

Starting point is 01:02:30 that was what kind of masked it a little bit from being pretitious is that it was just a type of pen that made certain kind of brush marks that make it a little harder to say for sure it's this person. Okay, so more stuff about the note. First, John Ramsey was well known millionaire. Why would the kidnappers ask for $118,000? Why not a million? The amount of $118,000, you know, as we know now, that's the amount of his recent bonus and a strange amount to ask for. Not a hundred thousand, not a million, not a quarter million, not even 120,000, 118,000, feels fishy to me, feels contrived.

Starting point is 01:02:59 Also, the supposed kidnappers specifically ask Ramsey to take the money from his account. Why does that matter? Typically kidnappers, they don't give a shit how you get the money. They don't give instructions how to get it. They just wanted to give it to him. Another weird detail according to experts is the way the kidnappers describe themselves. Who calls themselves a small foreign faction?

Starting point is 01:03:14 Yeah, like I said, it gives it a whole fucking Nigerian email scam vibe. If this faction was real and they were small, why would they want you to know they're small? Make more sense as they want you to think that they're large, powerful, big, you know, trying to seem more powerful, not less. The notes kind of sounds like something out of a 80s action or, you know, or 90s action movie like, like die hard, you know, John McClain trying to save everyone from a furious effort to the small foreign faction, hell, Ben on destroy America. Yippee, Kaya for in faction. Now back to the timeline. After calling the police at 5.54 a.m. Patty calls family and friends, both the white family

Starting point is 01:03:47 and John and Barbara Furny. At around 6 a.m., the world's most Caucasian couple, fleet and Priscilla White arrive on the scene. I imagine both them wearing silk, ascotts. They'd never seen patty so hysterical, flailing, collapsing in sobs. John Ramsey wasn't known for displaying emotion. Fleet who had done a lot of sailing with him, of course he had. And rough weather had admired his calm, even in the worst storms, but he noticed John

Starting point is 01:04:07 looked distraught as well. Around the same time, 559 AM officer Rick French arrives on the scene. First of many officers from the Boulder Police Department to respond to the 911 call. He immediately makes a curse research at the home finds no signs of forced entry. During a search, officer Rick French goes to the basement, comes to a door secured by a wooden latch. Unbeknownst to him, Jean-Bernay's body lied directly behind it. Sadly, French walks away without opening it. If he would have opened it, he could have secured a crime scene, someone could have been arrested. Not securing a crime scene really

Starting point is 01:04:37 made this want a motherfucker to solve for later investigators. A flee white also searching the house testified that when he began a search, the lights were already on in the basement and the door on the hallway leading to the basement. Wine cell the room was opened. Further testified that a window in the basement playroom was broken under the broken window. Mr. White states there was a suitcase along with a broken chart of glass. Now later it will be revealed that this window would have been broken for some time. And the suitcase had also been there for some time. Nothing that had happened the previous night.

Starting point is 01:05:04 According to John Ramsey, we'll talk about this a little bit more. Again, suspicious. Mr. White also opened the door to the wine cellar room, but he did not see anything inside because it was dark and he couldn't find a light switch. Between 6 a.m. and 8 a.m., four more officers arrive at the Ramsey residents. Policemen, Carl, Vich, Barry Weiss, or Vice-Soo Barclow, and their supervisor, Sergeant Paul Reichenbach. Jean-Bernay's parents now have a house full of people. Besides an increasing number of officers and family friends, their reverend rolehover

Starting point is 01:05:32 stock from St. John's Episcopalian Church arrives around 715 AM just before Burke is taken to the White House. Mary Lou, Jedamus, Grace, Moorlock, Boulder PD, Victim Advocates arrived at around 645 AM with bagels and coffee of the houses now loaded with people people fucking up with their soon to find out as an act you know it says it fucking crime scene murder crime scene but they don't know that yet

Starting point is 01:05:54 at eight ten a.m. the first detectives on the case are lend aren't and detective Fred Patterson who immediately began their investigation police are notified of the kidnappers plans to call between eight and ten a.m. as per police procedure, the Ramji's phones are tapped and the calls are monitored. But the small foreign faction never calls and surprisingly enough, no one, including John and Patricia and Patsy, you know, ever mentioned the missing of the kidnappers call window, never bring it up. A few officers and investigators in particular detective Linda aren't notice how strange

Starting point is 01:06:23 that is. They make a note of that. They know also that John and Patsy barely in the same room together to this day detective aren't is convinced that someone in the family probably John killed John but not. Around 10 30 a.m. that morning detective aren't notices that John Ramsey goes missing for at least an hour leaving the house to supposedly pick up the mail. Later determined this couldn't be true given the family's mail was delivered to a slot in the front door, why are you lie about that? What was he doing? Moving a body. One PM detective Linda R. tells a resurface

Starting point is 01:06:54 John Ramsey that the police will be conducting a full suite with the house. John and Fleet agreed to join in. Go go, go, flee white. After John Ramsey moved his computer company from Atlanta, Georgia to Boulder, 91, the whites and Ramsey's found that a lot in common. Fleet was also successful. He's a tycoon in the oil business. Of course he was. If you're fleet white, you're not cleaning toilets at Burger King. You're making that oil money. Man, it's a good name, solid rich name. I wish I would have named both my kids fleet white. Maybe change Kylers name to Fleet White Cummins and encourage him to wear Ascot's. Changeman rose name to Fleet or White Cummins or maybe Fleetist, thecot's. Changement rose name to Fleet or White Cummins.

Starting point is 01:07:25 Or maybe Fleet is the Fleet is White. She can wear mint coats even in the summer. A lot of Pearls diamonds, long silk gloves. Father, what's Fadina? Caviar Fleet, you know that? Monday is always Caviar night. Monday is Caviar, Tuesday is lobster. Wednesday is steak, and the rest of the week,

Starting point is 01:07:43 it's whatever gets flown in fresh from paris. Dinner will be served in plates of gold. And the food will be chewed by servants and then spit into your mouth. My boy fleet and my daughter fleet is not going to chew their food like some dirty carbon peasants. Ha ha ha. Around 105 PM.

Starting point is 01:08:00 Detective Art begins to lead officers on the thorough search of the house from top to bottom. John grabs fleet heads at the basement again. And that's when John finds John Bonnet's body. According to forensics expert Ron Walker, who works for the Boulder PD at the time, whenever a murder is staged, the perpetrator will deliberately take a family friend or neighbor to the body so that the other person can witness their shock and distress, their surprise. Upon the side of his daughter, John smothers her, cries out, and covers her blanket, takes John Bene's body upstairs, effectively, completely destroying the crime scene. Now, I do realize that might have been a natural reaction. Someone might, you know,

Starting point is 01:08:34 you know, my reactive, I might react that way. I might not care at all about protocol if my kid had been killed. What I find very strange about all of this is that it took the Ramsey's over seven fucking hours to find her body when it was in the house the whole time. Think about that over seven hours. If one of my kids was missing, ransom, not or not, I would think I would tear the house apart looking for them. She wasn't hidden.

Starting point is 01:08:56 She was laying on the floor in a basement of all the, you know, a fleet would have just turned on that light earlier, that officer would have just opened the door right there. She wasn't hidden under anything. The family was now looking in the world for, in fact, they believed, if they believed, the ransom notes author are supposed to wait at home. So if you're supposed to be at home anyway, and you think you're supposed to be waiting by the phone,

Starting point is 01:09:16 or at least you'll be able to grab the phone quickly when they call, why would you at the very least not look everywhere in your home? The 911 or 911 call was placed at 5.52 a.m. They can't, over seven hours, and they don't look in every room of the house. What the fuck? That really makes no sense to me at all.

Starting point is 01:09:32 Five minutes later, at 1.10 p.m., Detective Art moves the body a second time into a different room, further muddies the evidence. People could cheek this about her for a long time as well. Okay, now let's push pause the timeline and let's look at the crime scene a little bit. Poor little Jean-Bonnaise mouse was covered in duct tape. Nylon cord connected to a crude grot was found around her wrists and neck and her torso was covered by a white blanket. So sad. I mean,

Starting point is 01:09:54 she had just celebrated a dream Christmas and a mansion. Now she's dead. She's just got in her first bike. Now this very strange is she wasn't wearing the clothes her parents said she had on when she went to bed the night before so apparently she'd been Redressed after her murder John Apache told investigator that she was wearing a red turtleneck pajamas top when they put her to bed She was found in a white one her red turtleneck was in the bathroom sink Found according to John fully clothed covered by one of her blankets Very unusual especially considering that her autopsy would later conclude that she may have been sexually assaulted before her death

Starting point is 01:10:28 Say maids this you'll see this thing, it's so muddy here real quick. You know, that detail would seem to make the whole things stranger. Like what kind of intruder sexually assaults killed a child and carefully puts clothes back on them, fresh clothes, then takes it out of the basement, carefully lays their body in the ground, then sits down, writes out a long, rambling ransom note, then leaves, then doesn't ever call about the ransom money. It's all very odd. Making it all weirder, the ligatures around her neck and right wrists were investigators say very loose, consistent with staging a crime.

Starting point is 01:10:56 The knots used on the crude garage made from Patsy's own paintbrush to choke the child to death with were quite intricate, also unusual. Dirt bags, looking to sexually assault to the child, strangled the child, don't usually take the time to make a nice fancy knot. Usually they don't know how. Gonna be real honest. Moreover, there are no signs of forceful entry

Starting point is 01:11:15 and more importantly, no footprints in the melting snow around the house. This makes an intruder breaking in that much more unlikely. Greg McCrary, former FBI agent and adjunct forensic psychology professor at Nova Southeastern University, and Fort Lauderdale, breaking in that much more unlikely. Greg McCrary, former FBI agent and adjunct forensic psychology professor at Nova, South Eastern University, and Fort Lauderdale, contributing author to the 1992 crime classification manual. Dude, who knows some shit about crime? Adds the pedophiles and ransom kidnappers never overlap. He says, pedophiles grab the child

Starting point is 01:11:40 molestim and discard them. Ransom kidnappers are in it strictly for the money. What the fuck is going on? Is this crime? Although the corner did not specify the exact time of death, there was a neighbor who told police that she had been awakened shortly after midnight, remember that loud person's scream, the Ramsey's tell police, they heard nothing or they heard nothing. Then the Boulder PD makes a huge mistake. They would later admit it.

Starting point is 01:12:01 They didn't separate the witnesses, the Ramsey's and didn't get their statements. Had they done that, they might have solved this case. You know, instead they potentially gave the murderer or murderers months and months to come up with a plausible denial, a good plan, hire the right lawyers. And the basement where John Binet was found again, a window was broken, there was a suitcase underneath it. Like we said, friends on the scene thought that if a perpetrator entered the house, you know, maybe he would going to use this suitcase to get out the window, especially because the suitcase had an unidentified footprint on it. But John Ramsey, again, later told investigators he had broken the window to get into the house. When he had locked himself out a few months before and the suitcase was his, we're that he didn't have someone fix

Starting point is 01:12:40 the window, right? They were loaded. But his bus is months ago. Why didn't he have someone come and fix it? Seems like it needs someone on the priority to not let people sneak in your basement. There's a sizable cobweb also. This is a big thing about the intruder theory. Sizeable cobweb on the window, still there when police initially investigated it.

Starting point is 01:12:58 If a perpetrator had slipped through the window, they would have had to not disturb this giant cobweb, which would have been virtually impossible. Also, the complexity and size of the web was such that it couldn't have been new. It looked like it had, you know, it had to have been there for quite some time. Between 121.30 p.m., still on December 26, Boulder, policeman, Ron Walker, police officers, Ron Walker and Larry Mason arrived and searched the basement, wine cellar for further clues. They finally secure their home, preventing further arrivals and contamination, but the damage

Starting point is 01:13:27 had already been done. 140 PM John Ramsey calls his pilot allegedly has heard asking him to prepare a plane to Atlanta. Then law enforcement instructs the family not to leave town. Five minutes later, heeding the officer's warning, the Ramsey's leave their house with plans to stay the night at the Furny's home. At 2.30 PM that day, police conducting interview with John Bonne's brother, Burke, which reveals the nine year old

Starting point is 01:13:47 had allegedly slept through the events of the previous night. But what about that enhanced audio from the 911 call? Now, at seven point after this, his father's advised to procure an attorney. He does hire his friend named Mike Bynum. The following day, not tops, you have John Bonne's body conducted on December 27th

Starting point is 01:14:03 by the Boulder County Coroner's office. Let's examine what they found out. The cause of John Bonaise deaths was ruled asphyxia by strangulation associated with cranio cerebral trauma. The autopsy report supports the conclusion that she was alive before she was asphyxia by strangulation and that she fought her attacker in some manner. Evidence gathered during the autopsy was consistent with the inference that she struggled to remove a grot from her neck.

Starting point is 01:14:30 The autopsy report reveals injury to John Bonaise, genitalia, consistent with a sexual assault shortly before her death. Although no head info, we'll see that's going to be challenged here in a bit. Although no head injury was visible when she was first discovered, the autopsy also revealed she received. She had received a severe blow to her head shortly before we're around the time of a murder. Forensic pathologist believed she was alive when she was struck on the head and alive when the grout was applied.

Starting point is 01:14:57 The scalp hemorrhage ran from the right eyebrow to the back of the head. The corresponding skull fracture was eight and a half inches long with a small displaced fragment of bone. She had a subdural hemorrhage beneath the skull, although the head wound was a fatal type injury. Particular hemorrhaging of the eyes indicated that Jambanae was alive at the time of her strangulation, possibly brain dead or about to die, but technically still alive at that time.

Starting point is 01:15:21 The bleeding in Jambanae's genitalia area also indicated she was alive when she was assaulted. If she was assaulted, her hymen was torn and material consisted with wooden charge from the paintbrush used to make the garot found in her vagina. I mean, that adds such a strange wrinkled Aldous. No evidence suggests that she was the victim of chronic sexual abuse, which I would think would be the case of one of her parents at a salter. However, if she was sexually assaulted by a family member, I mean, I, you know, it could have been the first time. There's always have to be a first time, not impossible. Did John or Patsy or maybe even Burke begin to assault her?

Starting point is 01:15:53 Kids are curious. Sometimes they do act out sexually and other kids that doesn't not happen. Did that begin to happen? Then she tried to get them to stop and things escalated from there. Maybe again, it's such a confusing crime. And check this out. Mark Beckner, the man who was the Boulder Police Chief during John Bonnet's murder investigation, did a Reddit ask me anything in 2015.

Starting point is 01:16:13 And this is what he said. We know from the evidence she was hidden the head very hard with an unknown object, possibly a flashlight or similar type item. The blow nocturne deep into the blow nocturne deep unconsciousness, which could have led someone to believe she was dead. The strangulation came 45 minutes to two hours after the head strike based on the swelling on the brain. While the head wound would have eventually killed her, the strangulation actually did kill her. The rest of the scene we believe was staged. This is the important part. The rest of the scene we believe was staged,

Starting point is 01:16:45 including the vaginal trauma to make it look like a kidnapping assault gone bat. Right. And again, that was a, uh, that, uh, that Reddit AMA response from Mark Beckner, the guy who was the Boulder police chief during Jompanets murder investigation, a guy who didn't understand what an AMA was and didn't realize that everyone would be able to find out what he said and felt bad about this closing all of that later. I mean, I mean, you know, the PD they thought this was all staged. Vaginal trauma may have been say, how fucked up is that? I mean, think about that means, you know, that means that, you know, let's say Burke's master in the head on accent.

Starting point is 01:17:19 John and Pat's either think she's already dead or he's going to be dead. One of them strangles her, puts a paintbrush, interview giant, and their daughters are giant, it's making it look like she's been sexually assaulted. How incredibly dark is that possibility? I mean, I don't know what else you're supposed to infer from this, as when they say that it must have been staged.

Starting point is 01:17:39 How could you put a paintbrush in your dead daughter's vagina to cover up your son accidentally killing her? Yeah. Cornertruck nail clipping from John Bene. Male DNA was found under John Bene's right hand fingernail that does not match any of the Ramzes. In addition, male DNA was found in John Bene's underwear that did not match any of the Ramzes.

Starting point is 01:17:56 Man, DNA analysis will further muddy this shit up over the years as you will soon see. Finally, the corner's report notes injuries on the right side of John Bune's face and left lower back, while defendants assert that these injuries are consistent with the use of a stun gun. Plain of notes from the investigation know that the corners report does not expressly state the injuries were the result of such an instrument. However, Dr. Michael Doberson, forensic pathologist retained by the Ramsey's who examined the Boulder Corners Autopssy report and autopsy photos concludes that the injuries to the right side of the face,

Starting point is 01:18:30 as well as the lower left back are patterned injuries, most consistent with the application of a stun gun. In the sun, this is part of the intruder hypothesis. Some some creep came in there and and stunner with a stun gun, then did what he did. There's also a flashlight photograph sitting on the Ramsey kitchen table that fit John Bonne's rectangular head wound fracture exactly. Some will later point to this as the head trauma weapon. And there's something else to think about.

Starting point is 01:18:52 Why would a kidnapper strangled a death of a child who was already suffered deadly head trauma? If a family member had hit her in the head, why would they also strangle her or make it look like she was strangled? If it really wasn't accident, why couldn't they just be honest? Work was nine. If the accident killed a sister, would why couldn't they just be honest? Work was nine. If the accident killed a sister, would he really get in now with trouble?

Starting point is 01:19:08 I doubt it. Now with attorneys, you know, the ones the family could afford. I mean, I told you, man, the more you look into this, the more confused the shit gets. Damn it, lose the free to clear my head and show me the truth. That was making me more confusing. The autopsy also revealed a vegetable or fruit material

Starting point is 01:19:23 which may represent pineapple. Was Jean-Benae had eaten a few hours before her death. Photographs of the home taken on the day when Jean-Benae's body The autopsy also revealed a vegetable or fruit material which may represent pineapple. Was Jean-Benae had eaten a few hours before her death. Photographs at the home taken on the day when Jean-Benae's body were found do show a bowl of pineapple pieces in milk on the kitchen table with a spoon in it. However, both Jean and Patsy said they did not remember putting the bowl on the table or ever feeding the pineapple to Jean-Benae. But the flip's going out with this fruit.

Starting point is 01:19:43 I mean, does someone she knew sneak in, wake her up, take her to the kitchen for a midnight snack, would someone ever do that? Knowing at any time, whatever parents could come down stairs and catch them, police reported that they found Jean-Bene's nine-year-old brother, Burke's fingerprints on the bowl. Did Burke help with your little snack

Starting point is 01:19:58 and then something happened after that? The Ramses have always maintained the Burke slept the entire episode until he was waking several hours after the police had arrived. Like the phone call, you know, makes it seem like this is not true. Why are they lying about Burke? Why there seems to be a lot of lies around Burke?

Starting point is 01:20:14 You know, and again, if Burke killed her, would a nine-year-old fall open headwind with strangulation? I don't think he would have done that. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. On December 30th, police take blood and hair samples from John Ramsey, other members of the family. John Andrew Ramsey and Melinda Ramsey, John Bonay's adult half siblings were in Georgia on the day of the murder or immediately eliminated suspects.

Starting point is 01:20:35 December 31st, six year old John Bonay's buried at St. James Episcopal Cemetery in Marietta, Georgia. The family, including John and Patsy, allowed to travel to Atlanta for the funeral, how tragic. Less than a week if they were all celebrating Christmas. The following day, New Year's Day, January 1, 1997, John and Patsy Ramsey grant an extensive interview to CNN in which Patsy Ramsey proclaims, there is a killer on the loose. John Ramsey calls the idea that he or other members of his family could have committed

Starting point is 01:21:00 the crime, nauseating beyond belief. This interview was done before the Boulder Police could officially interview the two alone, and the Boulder Police are beginning to further suspect the Ramzis had something to do with this murder. Five detectives fly from Boulder to Atlanta to interview them. Now let's look at the CNN interview a bit more. It did not do them any favors with the court of public opinion. And one part of this national interview, Patsy Ramzis says, we have to find out who did this. John Ramzis adds, not because we're angry, but we have to go opinion. And one part of this national interview, Patsy Ramsey says, we have to find out who did

Starting point is 01:21:25 this. John Ramsey adds, not because we're angry, but we have to go on, not angry. But what? Your daughter was sexually assaulted and murdered in your home a fucking week ago, and you're not angry. Are you robot? Are you sociopaths? In capable of emotion?

Starting point is 01:21:42 Like more CEOs or sociopaths than the average person, we learned that a long time ago in sub number four. I mean, it's just very weird. It's not a good look. The Ramses are asked, are you fully convinced that your daughter was kidnapped? Patsy starts to shake her head, no. And then John starts to shake his head, yes.

Starting point is 01:21:57 She starts nodding, yes, as well then. And then she says, it's just so hard to know, but our family is a loving family. It's a gentle family. Why would John give a yes answer? Dude hard to know, but our family is a loving family. It's a gentle family. Why would John give a yes answer? Dude, you know she wasn't kidnapped. You found her body in the home. The cops were there by 6 a.m.

Starting point is 01:22:13 No kidnapper, snuck her body in his law enforcement continue to arrive. And what, what, what? Some kidnapper snuck her in, you know, sometime after, or snuck in, sometime after 10 p.m. Got her out, then brought her back. You know, the following, what makes zero sense? It wasn't kidnapped. On January 3rd, John Apache returned to Colorado for John Bonay's funeral, February 13th, 97, Boulder Police Chief Tom Coby, Boulder

Starting point is 01:22:36 uh Boulder County District Attorney Alex Hunter. Hold a news conference where they vowed that the killer will be brought to justice. DA Hunter then announces the formation. And that is the different police chief that I mentioned earlier was, you know, there's a long investigation. I ended up being several police chiefs. It'll be part of it. DA Hunter then announces the formation of an expert prosecution task force, including forensic expert Henry Lee, DNA expert Barry Shek, both Lee and Shek were part of the OJ Simpson

Starting point is 01:23:02 defense team. And the media eats this shit up. This case is a subject of immense media coverage. both Lee and Chek were part of the OJ Simpson defense team and the media eats this shit up. This case is a subject of immense media coverage. The general consensus seems to be believed that the Ramses did it. Jean-Bernay's pageant experience seems to have been a major factor in coming to that belief.

Starting point is 01:23:14 Media puns in the general public alike find the pageant lifestyle. Odd, obviously I can't blame them. I mean, let's say the Ramses had nothing to do with their daughter's death and she was killed by some random pedophile. A ton of articles about the case that I've read indicates that a lot of people thought that at the very least, dressing her up like they did, turned her into a magnet for pedophiles,

Starting point is 01:23:36 turned her into like a pito bait, and I don't totally disagree. I mean, you sexualize your kid. I mean, you are making them more noticeable to fucking people who are sexually attracted to kids. I mean, to someone who knew her from the pageant world killer. That's, you know, another possibility that goes with the intruder theories. March 13th, 97, Veteran Homicide Detective, Luke Smith joined the Ramsey Murder investigation. Smith was a retired investigator from El Paso County, best known for cracking the murder

Starting point is 01:24:04 case of Heather Don Church in Colorado Springs. Heather Don was not in fact a church. She was a 13-year-old girl killed by a dirt bag named Robert Charles Brown, a guy who liked Otis's tool and Henry Lucas ended up confessing to a whole bunch of other murders. He may or may not have committed to forget and arrested. April 3rd, 1997, DNA testing begins at Selmark, diagnostics labs in Maryland. This was the second round of DNA testing. The Jamba N.A. case, the initial round was conducted at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation Labs. Just two weeks later, DA Alex Hunter for the first time publicly identified John and Patsy Ramsey as the primary focus of their investigation.

Starting point is 01:24:37 Gosh, dangy Wilkers. Does not look flipping good. On April 27th, 96, the Ramsey's fund a newspaper ad offered a $100,000 reward for info about Jean-Bene's killer. Three days later in April 30th, the police conducted a long awaited formal interviews with John and Patsy Ramsey. More than four months after Jean-Bene was found murdered, not good. Patsy is interrogated for six and a half hours.

Starting point is 01:24:59 John has questioned for just two hours. At the end, the police released no statement regarding the contents of those interviews. May 1, 97, John and Patsy Ramsey and a rare interview with reporters to clear their innocence. I did not kill my daughter, John Ramsey states, Patsy says, let me assure you that I did not kill John Bene. On May 13, 97, the first detective to arrive at the murder scene, Linda Art, art is dropped from the case. Why? So later claims she was fired for criticizing her superiors for their handling of this case. Her superiors were say, we'll say she was removed because she bungled the case. On August 14th, 97, Jean-Bonnaise Grizzly autopsy details are released to the public. On January 15th, 1998, John and Patsy Ramsey refused

Starting point is 01:25:44 to submit to another round of interviews, unless they can review the evidence first, a condition unacceptable to police to refuse. It does seem weird. The whole refusing to come in and do the interviews does seem weird to me. It's never properly explained. Some sources say the Boulder PD just spots the interviews, not demanding that they've immediately because John was a rich, big, wig, local businessman with military contract or tie. Some sources seem to think that this is just what happens. And you have, wig, local business made with military contract ratized.

Starting point is 01:26:05 Some sources seem to think that this is just what happens. And you have lots of money and can hire good lawyers to do everything and their legal power to make it hard for police to investigate you. I do think if they were for sure innocent, why not cooperate more with police? But again, you know, if you have a lawyer reminding you that innocent people can do go to jail horrible crimes all the time, even murder. I can also see why an innocent person would not cooperate. January 16th, Governor Roy Romer, Roy Romer rejects the request by two friends of the Ramsey family to appoint a special prosecutor in the murder case. A little bit of conflict of interest there.

Starting point is 01:26:36 Your friend is suspected of murder and now you're going to try and get a prosecutor you like attached to the case. January 29th, 98 more than a year after their daughter was murdered. The Ramsey's turnover to police, the clothing they were wearing the night, John Bane was found dead. That is so case January 29th, 98 more than a year after daughter was murdered. The Ramses turned over to police. The clothing they were wearing the night. John Bonaise was found dead. That is so ridiculous to me. We should understand a legal protocol more here. Why didn't they get the clothes week one? What is the point of getting them over a year later? I mean, so you can see what kind of detergent they've been using? Also, wouldn't it be very easy just to buy new versions of the clothing you were wearing and then give that to the police?

Starting point is 01:27:04 I mean, how the fuck would they know the difference? On March 12, 98, that's looking for the killer of John Bonnet for 15 months, police say the best bet for solving that murder is a grand jury investigation and formally call for such a probe after conferring with district attorney Alex Hunter. So what is a grand jury investigation? I have always been a little confused by that. I know we mentioned grand jury investigations in the black dolly of suck. They were used to investigate LAPD corruption and also to try and bring a dolly of suspect to trial, but I never explained what a grand jury investigation is.

Starting point is 01:27:34 It's pretty unique. According to Wikipedia, which provides, you know, provided the best, most understandable, layman-speak type definition I could could find better than the legal sites I found. A grand jury is well, a jury, a group of citizens empowered by local by law to conduct legal proceedings and investigate potential criminal conduct and determine whether criminal charges should be brought. A grand jury may subpoena physical evidence of a or a person to testify. A grand jury is separate from the courts, which do not preside over its functioning. Liberia and the United States are the only two countries in the world that use grand

Starting point is 01:28:12 juries like this. It's a type of trial, basically, that determines if you're going to have a criminal trial. Unlike a regular trial, there's no defense with a grand jury investigation, only the prosecution trying to convince a jury that someone should be prosecuted at a criminal trial and when and why are these grand juries used without you know hijack in this timeline further into an explanation of our entire criminal court system the simplest answer I found is grand juries are used when the prosecution does not have enough evidence to convince a judge that a subject should be held to answer for a crime evidence to convince a judge that a subject should be held to answer for a crime. So in the John Bonaise case, what happened was the Boulder Police Department was having

Starting point is 01:28:49 a hard time figuring out how to charge, you know, uh, John Bonaise parents with her murder. A lot of members of the BPD, they think that John and Patsy, maybe Burke, either did it, had something to do with it, but they just don't have enough evidence to get a judge to sign off on an indictment. So they decide to try for a grand jury. Hopefully they can convince them that there's enough evidence or enough circumstantial evidence to bring them to trial. I think it's as bad as good as I can explain it.

Starting point is 01:29:15 Hopefully I got that right. Making things more complicated. While most of the Boulder PD convinced the Ramsey's guilt, they want to call for a grand year investigation, the DA's office does not think the Ramsey's are involved. to you know call for grand your investigation the d a's office does not think the ramsey's are involved this was a big uh... complicated part of this case the boulder police department seem to consistently believe it was the ramsey's the district attorney's office seem to consistently believe in the intruder

Starting point is 01:29:35 theory in may nineteen ninety eight lose smith the detective hired by the d's at d a's office presents his findings to the uh... bpd with other staff members of the d a's office concluding the at that the evidence pointed away from the Ramses. However, smitten his team were unable to successfully challenge enough members of the BPD who did believe the Ramses were guilty. The DA's office ought to take control of investigation due to animosity between the police and the DA's office and the pressure to obtain a conviction.

Starting point is 01:30:02 Colorado governor, Roy Roemer steps in, names Michael Cain, a special prosecutor to obtain a conviction. Colorado governor Roy Romer steps in, names Michael Cain a special prosecutor to initiate a grand jury. Two of the lead investors in the case who had opposing views, Smith and Steve Thomas resign. Smith, because he believes that the investigation had been competently overlooked the intruder hypothesis, Thomas because the DA's office had interfered with and failed to support the police investigation of the case was pointed at the Ramses. Steve Thomas resigned with the well-publicized letter which said, Attempts to gather evidence were met with refusals, and instead it was suggested that we ask permission from the Ramses before proceeding.

Starting point is 01:30:34 He thought the Ramses had intimidated the DA's office. Office. As the feud with the DA's office escalated the Boulder Police, accepted the aid of a dream team of three attorneys who offered to provide pro bono counsel in the case. Curiously, one of the attorneys had served as outside counsel counsel, excuse me, to lock heed Martin in several cases. The second belonged to a firm that had also represented that company. The third had been co-counsel with Howe Haddon, John Ramsey's criminal attorney and another

Starting point is 01:31:00 matter. Right? It's a little fishy. Who would want the case delayed? Various entities connected to the case had strong reasons for delaying a grand jury investigation. District Attorney Hunter, whose office rarely went to trial in homicide cases, was just one. This was not his comfort zone. This guy was not well liked at all by Boulder PD.

Starting point is 01:31:18 They seem to think he was pretty weak-willed, weak-minded. Lockheed Martin, one of the state's largest employers would want the trial to lay as well. Right? This company's been trying to sell access graphics for a while now to General Electric. You know, any risk that the company's top executive would be facing possible indictment would not have helped the divestment plans. Do you see how messy this all is? Now you have lawyers representing John Ramsey, whose employers could lose a lot of money if

Starting point is 01:31:41 he's found guilty of killing his own daughter. The trial is delayed. The delay was, you know, damaging to the investigation further on several fronts, leaks proliferated witnesses altered their stories or sold them to tabloids. It just keeps getting messier. On June 24, 1998, John and Pat Segrams returned to Colorado for an interrogation by district attorneys investigators, a reportedly questioned together and separately. For the first time, the prosecution conducts an extensive interview now with her son Burke who's 11 over a year and a half after John Bene died.

Starting point is 01:32:09 August 6, 1998, in a stinging eight-page resignation letter, an angry detective Steve Thomas, one of the lead investigators, says district attorney hunter's office is thoroughly compromised and that they've crippled the case. Thomas charged that critical evidence had not been collected and maintained that other evidence wasn't even tested. Colorado governor Ray Romner then asked for Boulder area DAs whether or not he should intervene further in the case. It's huge mess. August 12th, Governor Romer says he wants to help the DA further, not removing from the case. He invokes a state statute that allows for special deputies to assist the DA. You know, the case is headed for Grand jury. On August 20th, sources

Starting point is 01:32:44 held the Denver Post at an enhanced version of the 911 call Patsy Ramsey made of the morning she found the ranch note includes Berks voice. We talked about that. A grand jury convenes beginning September 15th, 1998 to consider and dide in the Ramses for charge relating to the case. Five months after they were chosen on some Boulder County grandiers began their investigation. Then investigator, Lou Smith then resigns saying authorities are focusing too heavily on John but his parents and his resignation letter. Lou says the Ramsey did not kill their daughter and a very very dangerous killer is still out there. October 13th, 1998, the grand jury begins hearing forensic evidence, including analysis of handwriting DNA and hair and fibers found at the scene. Seven days later, in October 20th, John Ramsey returns to Colorado for deposition in

Starting point is 01:33:31 civil case filed against him and the national inquire by photographer Steven Miles, who's a neighbor of the Ramzies. And one national inquire article, a statement attributed to John Ramsey speculates that the real murder was an intruder, most likely a pedophile, we plan to suggest it was a neighbor, Steven Miles. John's attorney will argue that John said no such thing. 99. The grand jury returns a true bill to charge the Ramsey's with placing the child at risk

Starting point is 01:33:55 in a way that led to her death and with obstructing an investigation of murder. This is an easier indictment than outright murder requires a lower burden of proof. But Boulder County District Attorney Alex Hunter does not prosecute. He believes that he still doesn't have enough evidence to prove them guilty, been unreasonable doubt in court. Some think the Ramses have literally paid DA Hunter off. The sniping and finger pointing between Boulder PD in the District Attorney's Office intensifies. Some prosecutors believe that the detectives too fixated on the parents and suspects failed to adequately explore other leads.

Starting point is 01:34:26 cops queues of DA being too chummy are intimidated by the Ramsey legal team. After more than a year of hearings, the proceedings have accomplished absolutely fucking nothing. They look to be over on February 18, 1999, Lawrence Schiller's book, Perfect Murder, Perfect Town offers new insight and details into the investigation. This book describes the feud between police and prosecutors. On April 8, 1999, a six-month extension of the Grand Jury's investigation is granted proceedings not over. They've decided to keep trying.

Starting point is 01:34:53 On May 19, 1999, Burke's now 12, a secretly questioned by the Grand Jury, the next day, Boulder authorities publicly confirm he's not a suspect, but is a witness. Fuck, what? A witness? What did he see Then September 13th 99 former detective Linda aren't one of the first detectives on the crime scene the day Jambanese body was found who by this time is resigned from the BPD appears on Good Morning America claiming she knows what happened the night Jambanese was killed and a five-part interview She says she knows who killed the, but will not reveal the name, but she kind of does.

Starting point is 01:35:26 She makes it. I watched it. She makes it very clear without saying his name that she thinks that John Ramsey the father for sure did it. So 10th, 23rd, 1999, after almost four months off, the grand jury returns to work. October 13th, 99 DA Alex Hunter announces after the grand jury has completed his work that his team still does not think they have sufficient evidence to warrant filing of charges. Over three years later, Mary Lacey, the next Boulder County District Attorney, takes over

Starting point is 01:35:55 the investigation from the police on the six year anniversary of John Bonaise death December 26, 2002. In April 2003, Lacey states that Johnambanay's killing is more consistent with the theory that an intruder murdered Jambanay than it was with the theory that Mrs. Ramsey did. Back and forth, it goes. December 2003, DNA results muddy everything further. Forensic investigators extracted enough material from a mixed blood sample found on Jambanese underwear, underwear to establish a DNA profile. That DNA belongs to an unknown male person. Investigators obviously,

Starting point is 01:36:30 hopes that this is a big break in solving the case. The DNA was submitted to the FBI's combined DNA index system. A database containing more than 1.6 million DNA profiles doesn't yield a match. Fast four a couple years later, June 24, 2006, Patsy Ramsey dies after battling ovarian cancer off and on for more yield a match. Fast four a couple years later, June 24, 2006, Patsy Ramsey dies after battling ovarian cancer off and on for more than a decade. August 15, 2006, John Mark, John Mark Car, a 41 year old elementary school teacher confesses

Starting point is 01:36:57 that he accidentally killed Jean-Benae while attempting to sexually assault her. He's arrested and Thailand. For a brief moment, it looks like Jean Bonaise killer has been found. Nope. The case against car collapses later that August. DNA test results eliminate him as a suspect. Also, he wasn't in Boulder at the time of the murder. More on this fucking nut job a little bit later.

Starting point is 01:37:18 July 9, 2008 armed with new DNA evidence that points to an unknown male is Jean Bonaise killer Boulder County district attorney Mary Lacey public publicly exonerates the child's parents and immediate family. In a letter, hand delivered to John Ramsey, Lacey says she is confident that a touch DNA analysis done by a private lab has determined the genetic material left on the waistband of long John's. John Bonaise was wearing where her body was found, matches the DNA left in her underwear and that that DNA belongs to an unknown suspect with no strong suspects remaining the case goes cold. And October 2010, the case is reopened.

Starting point is 01:37:55 New interviews are conducted following a fresh inquiry by committee that included state and federal investigators. Police are expected to use more, you know, to use newer DNA technology in this investigation. There was no new information glean from those interviews, according to ABC News. It was reported in September 2016 that the investigation into John Bernays deaths continued to be an active homicide case per Boulder Police Chief Greg Testa. In September of 2016, TV programs from A&E, Dr. Phil, Dateline NBC, CBS News, Air Jean-Benae specials in advance the 20th anniversary for murder. Boulder Police Chief Greg Tessa says in a September 1st video tape statement that he won't

Starting point is 01:38:32 do interviews about the case to maintain the investigation's integrity. He points out that the department has processed 1500 pieces of evidence as taken 200 DNA samples, interviewed more than 1,000 people in eight states, investigated more than 20,000 tips. Not gonna do any more interviews. In October of 2016, forensic expert to examine the results of a DNA test obtained exclusively by the daily camera and nine news dispute former DA Mary Lacey's conclusion. The DNA profile found in one place on John Bonnet's underpants and two locations that are long johns was the killers.

Starting point is 01:39:06 This is where that fucking DNA thing is so crazy. The experts say the evidence showed that the DNA samples came from at least two people in addition to John Bonnet. Something Lacey's office was told, but she didn't mention when she cleared the Ramses. And the experts also said that these DNA samples were of the kind that likely could have come from a long John factory factory worker. They could have just sneezed on him. Damn it.

Starting point is 01:39:29 Right? Many have now feel that the Ramsey should have never been exonerated based on DNA testing. Right? The results were misinterpreted. It looks like the DNA test had nothing to do with the murder. December 13, 2016, Boulder Police in Proscuse planned a new round of DNA tests that yield jack shit To this date there are no new leads the case remains unsolved

Starting point is 01:39:51 Various legal analysts seem to all agree that the case will in all likelihood forever remain unsolved But we're still gonna look at some suspects. Let's bounce out of this timeline to do exactly that Good job soldier. You made it back out of this timeline to do exactly that. When it comes to suspects, there is as you know, two main groups, family and intruders. We're going to look at both after a word from a final sponsor. TimeSuck is brought to you by BPI, Boulder Private Investigators, staffed only by former investigators who worked on the Jambane Ramsey case.

Starting point is 01:40:30 BPI specializes in taking your hard to solve case and continuing to never fucking solve it ever. Plenty of P.I. firms can get you answers. That's easy. BPI gets you so many questions. Always more questions and answers for your money back. Do you want constant disagreement between investigators and forensic experts in the DA's office?

Starting point is 01:40:48 Do you want to drag a case out indefinitely? Continue to add theories until no one even cares who did it anymore and ever wants to put the whole thing behind them? Do you want to really start to nail down a suspect and then go full JK, never mind, and start over from scratch? Do you want to pay a lot of people a lot of money

Starting point is 01:41:03 to look really busy, but actually accomplish exactly nothing. Call BPI. They're the best in the game at taking your case seriously and seriously never ever fucking solving it. And of course, that sponsor's not real. Times like has brought you today by movement. Whether you're at the office scrolling through your phone or unwinding from a long day, movements ever scroll blue light filtering glasses have you covered. I'm wearing them right now. I'm wearing a pair right now through YouTube Watchers.

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Starting point is 01:42:40 Join the movement. Link in the episode description. Now, let's look at some theories. Let's start with the intruder theory. All right, let's go over this in general before we look at individual intruder possibilities. The intruder theory goes something like this. Somebody was able to survey the family. Find a time when they were in the house, get into the house, when everyone to sleep, they

Starting point is 01:42:58 wrote a ransom letter, took John Bane, possibly using a stun gun to subdue her, and took her down to the basement, tied her up, killed her, still left the ransom note saying she was safe. Then they left her the window without disturbing a huge cobweb, then never contacted anyone about the ransom. So you know, makes a lot of sense. This is a theory that lose smitbice, one of the homicide detectives hired by district attorney Alex Hunter early in the investigation. He believes this mostly because John Bonay might have been sexually assaulted and to

Starting point is 01:43:26 submit this irrevocably, irrevocably gosh, points to someone outside the house, but she might not have been sexually assaulted. There was no evidence of conventional rape, although sexual assault could not be ruled out, although no steam was found. There was evidence that there had been a vaginal injury and the time of the autopsy had appeared the vaginal area had been wiped with the cloth. However, fuck this is so confusing, this case, so my heck mother.

Starting point is 01:43:48 Dr. Richard Krugman, a specialist in child abuse, brought in as a consultant by Hunter's office says that there was a vaginal abrasion, which is quote, a sign of trauma, not a sign of sexual abuse, necessarily. Meaning she could have fallen down, could have ran into something, you know, her hot head brother could have kicked her in the junk

Starting point is 01:44:06 Now she might not have been sexually assaulted or maybe she was Dr. Cyril Wecht vect a well-known forensic pathologist has no doubt that the 45 pound child had been molested Saying if she had been taken to a hospital emergency room and doctors had seen the general evidence her father would have been arrested All right, fine. No one can agree on fucking anything. Call BPI. The vaginal opening according to Dr. Robert Kirschner of the University of Chicago's Pathology Department was twice the normal size for six year olds. The general injuries indicate penetration, he says, but probably not by a penis and are

Starting point is 01:44:39 evidence of molestation that night as well as previous molestation. Ha, yeah, I'm not a doctor, but it seems like Dr. Kersher is reading a lot into this vaginal opening, especially since other doctors are divided on what happened. There was also blood and urine stains on our underpants, the considerable obstacle to the investigators according to one well-placed source in the DA's office was the fact that the crime scene in the body

Starting point is 01:45:00 had been cleaned up. Maybe that's what John Ramsey was doing. He was missing for an hour. Another piece of evidence pointing to an intruder is that there had been more than. Maybe that's what John Ramsey was doing. He was missing for an hour. Another piece of evidence pointing to an intruder is that there had been more than 100 burglaries in the Ramsey's neighborhood in the months before John but he's murder. Also, there were 38 registered sex offenders

Starting point is 01:45:13 living within a two mile radius of the Ramsey home. Crapes! They don't just live in neighborhoods like missing fingernails. They also live in, or live in, you know, near neighborhoods like Chatequois. And I'll just look at one of these sex offenders and a few other suspects relating to the intruder theory. One of the individuals at veteran homicide detective

Starting point is 01:45:30 Lou Smith identified as a suspect under his intruder theory was Gary Howard Oliva or Oliver, who was arrested for two counts of attempted sexual exploitation of a child and one count of sexual exploitation of exploitation of a child on June 2016. So it's the same charge or whatever. It's how it's written. This convicted pedophile have been living in the area on and off when police allegedly found a magazine cut out of

Starting point is 01:45:56 John Bonet Ramsey in his backpack after he was apprehended on drug charges in 2000. Creepy. He was soon released. What's the suspicion remained? DNA testing for the John Bane murder cleared him, but we know all the fucking problems with DNA testing. He was charged with two counts of sexual exploitation of a child for possessing child pornography. Um, and check this out just this summer, this motherfucker currently in prison for parole next year allegedly confessed to accidentally killing this six year old in a series of letters sent to a former high school classmate. I never loved anyone like I did John Bene and yet I let her slip in her head, bash, and

Starting point is 01:46:31 half, and I watched her die. I'll leave a wrote in a letter to his former classmate, Michael Vail. It was an accident. Please believe me. She was not like the other kids. So creepy. Not like the other kids. You know, I Google image search this living turd and a human costume and it looks exactly like the kind of guy who writes that letter

Starting point is 01:46:48 Why does so many pedophiles have long wispy hair and fucking mustaches? He looks so creepy that if you were a parent and you willingly let this motherfucker watch your kids and that he then molested them The police should arrest you and the pedophiles and you both the prison We will join for letting fucking Gary watch my age, you're old. Ah, sounds fair. Another letter to Vail, a liver wrote, or Gary wrote. I don't, that's not last names. Where Jean-Bonnaie completely changed me

Starting point is 01:47:14 and removed all evil from me. Just one look at her beautiful face, her beautiful glowing skin, and her divine God body. I realized I was wrong to kill other kids. Yet by accident, she died and it was my fault. Her divine God body. I realized I was wrong to kill other kids. Yet by accident, she died and it was my fault. Her divine God body. Jesus. That's why you don't put six girls in the sex of costumes and having fucking prey around a catwalk because of the garris of the world. That's it. Monroe is only wearing garbage bags starting tomorrow. Better yet,

Starting point is 01:47:39 she'll be in a garbage can like Oscar the Grouch. On Fridays, she can loosen it up, she can wear snow suits. And the summer she won't have to, you know, wear her snow boots. Vail said he is suspected as an old high school buddy for the last 22 years of killing John Bane. Ever since he received his disturbing call from Gary shortly after the murder and before the case made national headlines, Vail who lives in Ventura, California, told the Daily Mail, my suspicions began when Gary called me late at night on December 26, 1996. He was sobbing and said, I heard a little girl. I tried to get more information out of him.

Starting point is 01:48:11 The only other thing he told me was that he was in Boulder, Colorado. On December 27, I read the front page of my local newspaper, girl six slain in Boulder, Colorado. I immediately called the Boulder PD, told him what I knew about Gary and what he told me days earlier. They didn't get back to me. Three months later, I called the police again to find out what was going on in the investigation to Gary, but instead I was sent to a police answer machine set up for tips in the John

Starting point is 01:48:31 Bonnet case. I left a message on the recorded line. And again, I never heard back from investigators. Boulder police released a statement this year saying that, you know, Olivia, Olivia, it's O-L-I-V-A. I have no fucking idea to pronounce it. Olivia, Olivia, it's OLIVA. I have no fucking idea to pronounce it. Olivia, Olivia, Oliver, had previously confessed and investigators had looked into his claim.

Starting point is 01:48:50 The Boulder Police Department is aware of Gary and has investigated his potential involvement in this case, including several previous confessions at the statement. The department routinely receives information on this investigation. Information provided to the police department is reviewed along with the many tips and theories who receive. I looked into this Michael Vale guy as well

Starting point is 01:49:07 Who said all this about Gary. He also looks like a total pito Why was he still friends with Gary over 20 years after Gary basically told him he killed Jean-Bene Fuck you Michael Vale you piece of shit You're the real liar interfering with the murder investigation to try and get your face in some magazines or your longtime buddies What's it emitted? You know fucking fucking child, child of a user. Fucking pedophile. Another potential suspect, according to Oli Gray, a private investigator hired by the Ramsey family who died in 2017, was an electrician named Michael Helgoth, who worked in a nearby

Starting point is 01:49:37 auto salvage yard. Gray referred to Helgoth as a hell raiser, tied to an alleged property dispute involving the Ramsey's. That have served as possible motivation to seek revenge on the family in Kittenap, Jean Bainé. It's been speculated that once the 26 year old Helgoth caught wind that he could be a suspect in the case. Officials found a boot print allegedly similar to his near the Ramsy home.

Starting point is 01:49:56 He committed suicide before anyone could get to him. His death occurred two days after a 1997 press conference announcing that the Boulder DA was zeroing in on a new suspect. However, Delgoth remains cleared by both DNA, which again questionable, and the fact that he's dead as fuck. And it seems a little extreme to get back at him for like a little money dispute, property dispute. What, yeah, I guess that stuff can't happen. Authorities close to the investigation said in 2016 that Helgoth and Gary Aliva had been carefully investigated for many years and had not been considered suspects. In 2006, as we mentioned, a former school teacher, John Mark Carr confessed out of the blue

Starting point is 01:50:33 to the strangulation of John Bona and graphic detail. Carr was arrested in Thailand where he'd been living on the land, but were facing child porn charges in the U.S. When he confessed, he was immediately flown to Boulder for questioning, ultimately cleared after his DNA failed to match the profile of an unknown male. Cars, dementia, confession involved a series of diary entries allegedly written from the scene of the crime. In one dramatic account, car recalls strongly Jean-Benei in a love game gone wrong.

Starting point is 01:50:56 Close your pretty eyes, sweetheart. Read the excerpt in which car repeatedly first to himself is Daxis. Daxis loves you so much. Oh my God, I love you, Jean-Bene. And my lover's eyes are slowly closing. And my lover's eyes are slowly closing. I know we shouldn't make it illegal to write creepy shit like that,

Starting point is 01:51:13 about wanting to have sex with dead kids. You know, that would be an assault on free speech. But can we make it legal for parents? To get to hit these people, it's hard as they want in the face at least one time for doing that. Car, you know, he was dismissed as a suspect altogether. Written out for the pedophile.

Starting point is 01:51:28 You know, they just wanted notoriety and fame. He wasn't even in the area when it happened. Just a fucking another nut. Car believed to have changed his name in his gender, living somewhere as a free woman in the US named Delaya Alexis Reich, new general, Samo Crepe. Suspect I feel sorry for was the Ramsey neighborhood Santa Claus, Bill McRennels, who died in 2002 at the age of 72. Friend of the Ramsey, who dressed up as Santa Claus the week before John Bade's murder

Starting point is 01:51:54 to entertain the neighborhood children and one of Pat's his famous Christmas gatherings. The possibility that now deceased McRennels had anything to do with John Bade's death extremely unlikely, but does get tossed around on the internet allot a lot as far as suspect list. After the other news we've named, he's the most suspected, you know, suspect under the intruder theory. McGrennell's was rumored to have paid a little too much attention to John Bonaise, going as far as to arrange a secret visit from Santa Claus on Christmas. Supposedly he had chosen John Bonaise to be a special friend, going as far as to bring a vile of glitter gifted to him by the six year old with him into heart surgery Even stranger he asked his wife to mix the gold glitter and with his ashes where he to die

Starting point is 01:52:31 I mean, that is a little bit odd to want to neighbor girls glitter mixing with your ashes That story generated buzz the Denver Post failed to amount anything more than the sensationalized character assassination of a friendly old man. It's poor bastard. You should have never said shit about the glitter Bill does seem to be a good guy. Bill was born in South Texas a few miles from the border a Little town of Donna Texas 1930 received a degree in journalism from the University of Texas served in the army returned to his alma mater Top for five years before moving to Minneapolis to attend the University of Minnesota where he earned his doctorate in American studies

Starting point is 01:53:04 hired by Colorado University Journalism Department in 1968. And then he and his wife, Janet, spent the next 30 years in Boulder, raising three kids. After his retirement from Colorado University in 92, he volunteered a lot of his time to be a children's Santa Claus. He really took to the role as a life goal, Janet said after his death. He loved being Santa. He loved little children. And then the Ramsey case destroyed that career

Starting point is 01:53:27 and just devastated him. He loved that little girl. It was a very sad thing in his life because he genuinely loved children. It was the happiest part of his life. After being named a suspect by the court of public opinion after the social backlash that entailed, he and Janet moved.

Starting point is 01:53:40 They left for Cape Cod in 1998. McRannel has never volunteered to be Santa again. Instead, he, uh, this grandfather of six volunteered at a local senior center. The last few years, the last few years of his life before dying of a heart attack. And poor bastard. Not all people who like to spend time with kids

Starting point is 01:53:57 are pedophiles. Important to remember that. I have to remind myself that sometimes after reading about all these dirt pecs. There are other even less credible suspects in the intruder theory. Too many dimension. Let's talk about one last creep.

Starting point is 01:54:08 Randall DeWitt Simmons. Randall DeWitt Simmons is a piece of shit. He is also a pageant photographer who took pictures or was, who took pictures of John Bonnet six months before she died, and he was arrested early this year on kiddie porn charges. Of course he was. You like to see little girls all sexed up. to look at hot kids. He's a dirty bird. 66 year old was arrested this past July 2nd in the tiny central organ town of Oak Ridge,

Starting point is 01:54:34 charged with 15 counts of encouraging child sex abuse, currently awaiting trial and organ. And in 1998, less than two years after John Bonnet's murder, he was arrested for walking down the street naked. And one of the first things Bonet's murder, he was arrested for walking down the street naked. And one of the first things he said to officers when he was arrested was, I didn't kill John Bonet. So that's, you know, that's fun. That's not suspicious at all. Despite all this, the Boulder PD never considered him

Starting point is 01:54:56 to be a serious suspect. They seem to have put him in the nutter than squirrel shit, crack pot list. Put him on that after he was given a psychic valve or a psycho valve following his 1998 arrest. So it's confession killers all over again. Man, what is it with these nuts confessing the horseshit heinous stuff they didn't do.

Starting point is 01:55:12 It's like, you know, like some kids thrive on negative attention. I guess some grownups do too. Now let's look at the family one last time. First, Patti, Jean-Bonnaise mother, Patti Ramsey, took whatever secrets she was holding from that, you know, that morning to the grave, which he passed away after a 13 year battle with cancer. The main murder theory with Patsy is that while she was cleaning up, yet another one of Jambanes bedwitting

Starting point is 01:55:32 accidents, you know, she flipped out, slammed her little girl's head against the side of a hard blunt service like a bathtub, you know, and, and then panic. This one seems like a stretch to me, a big stretch. But former detective Steve Thomas thinks that Mrs. Ramley strangled her daughter in a panic moment on Christmas night, 1996 after accidentally causing a serious wound to little girl's head. He contends that the girl's father, John Ramsey, after realizing what had happened chose to protect his wife rather than help authorities. Steve also thinks that Patsy wrote the note. And if Patsy did kill John, but it's unlikely that she covered it up on her own, right? Like he said, kept everything from her husband. So that brings us, of course, to Papa John. John was the one to find John Bona's body, the one to ruin

Starting point is 01:56:13 the crime scene. He also, if you'll recall, reportedly disappeared for over an hour during the search for John Bona, rumors of a history of sexual abuse began to circulate almost immediately after the murder became a sensational news story, though no evidence was ever found to prove those allegations. John addressed those rumors in a press statement saying, there is no history. A person doesn't go throughout their lives as a normal human being. One night turned into a monster, slaughter their daughter, go to bed and get up and act normal from there on. That doesn't happen. And to his point, no allegations have any wrong doing ever plague this guy before or since.

Starting point is 01:56:45 Three other daughters. None of them ever alleged anything. Seems unlikely he molested it. And again, she may not have even been molested. Now let's look at Brother Burke. Warner Spitz is a 93 year old German American forensic pathologist who has worked on so many high profile cases, including investigations into the assassination of JFK, Martin Luther King. He testified at the trials of JFK, Martin Luther King.

Starting point is 01:57:05 He testified to the trials of Casey Anthony, O.J. Simpson, and he consulted on John Bonaise homicide investigation. And his review of John Bonaise autopsy included finding a perfectly rectangular defect that he suspected came from a blow to the little girl's head with a blunt, heavy flashlight seen in a photo on the kitchen counter and the crime scene photos. He claimed the flashlight fit the eight and a half inch gash in her skull to perfection. However, no trace evidence of, you know, of neither John Bonet or Burke was found in the flashlight. The flashlight became more suspicious when tied to the pineapple scenario. That's there we talked about earlier, where maybe Burke gave her some little slice of pineapple.

Starting point is 01:57:44 He's having a late-night snack, they maybe Burke gave her some little slice of pineapple. He's having a late night snack. They got an argument. He struck her with a flashlight and a moment of anger. Kids do stupid shit. Why this triangulation afterwards though? Why the possible vaginal penetration? Again, they think that John or Pat's your both, me have simulated all of that to point the

Starting point is 01:58:02 crime in a different direction. Many theories with Burke revol Burke revolve around John Bonet irritating their brother, Burke hitting her out of rage and frustration. I mean, you did have that golf club incident years earlier. Could Burke have gotten angry after strike? Is this with the flashlight? Then ran and gotten the parents, you know, who came and helped cover them up. Yes, I mean, it is possible. Uh, John Bonet seemed to have been alive with you, strangled, though.

Starting point is 01:58:23 So I mean, that, ah, God, man. You know what? John kills his own daughter. Strangles are to keep his nine-year-old son from getting caught, but I guess there also was the possibility that she didn't appear to be alive. Augh! So many things! And these aren't the only theories. There's also a bunch of conspiracy theories.

Starting point is 01:58:39 Let's take a break from all this reality and check in and see what other lunatics thing happened on today's idiots of the internet. Idiots of the internet. We're going to bounce around for a second before looking at some comments under one video. Some people actually believe that John Boney never died. Imagine this earlier. Should the older PD love this theory? They think she went into hiding, then resurfaced his pop star Katy Perry. It's the real theory.

Starting point is 01:59:08 What the flip, according to this theory, Katy Perry song, Why to Wake is believed to be an undercover message revealing the truth about her passage, Jean Bainé. One of the many holes with this theory is that Katy Perry is six years older than Jean Bainé. The evidence for this one is kind of, but not really a physical resemblance between Katy Perry and Jean-Beney Ramsey, as well as the kind of but not really existing resemblance of both their sets of parents. It's super dumb, but some people believe it, because some people are idiots. One YouTuber theorist went to great lengths to prove the similarities of their eyebrows.

Starting point is 01:59:40 Obviously, means they're the same, they're the same eyebrows. A different YouTuber points out the lines in Katy Perry's autobiography. She wrote and referenced her writing songs at an early age. Not that I was one of those stage kids, there was no Jean-Bonnaie Ramsey inside of me waiting to burst out. They think that's, ha ha, see? She's saying it. Yes, they don't understand fucking metaphors or just, you know, analogies.

Starting point is 02:00:03 God. Okay. So another conspiracy is that the little dyed blonde haired girl was sacrificed in a state and in ritual, of course, of course that shows up. There's all kinds of articles saying that a brotherhood term for devil is John Bitt. Excuse me, which is quite similar to her already unique first name, but none of these articles seem to have sources. Who is this brotherhood? Probably just a term someone threw up on Reddit when they were drunk. Then someone else reposted name, but none of these articles seem to have sources. Who is this brotherhood? Probably just determined someone threw up on Reddit when they were drunk, then someone else reposted it. And, you know, here we are. Another satanic theory is that John Benay was killed in a

Starting point is 02:00:32 satanic pedophile ring ritual. Nope. You're going to move away from that one. Some people think aliens killed her. Really, really paranoid and crazy people who think that aliens would hit her with a blood object, then choker, then write a weird ransom note, then make it look like maybe she'd been molested, then move her body, then not call for ransom, and then you get how dumb this is. You know, they're aliens. Why would they have to make shit so complicated? No alien has ever been arrested that we know of, ever, you know, why are they worried about covering the tracks?

Starting point is 02:00:58 There's also conspiracy links, John Bonnet's death with 9-11, yay! According to the conspiracy site, the unhived mind John Bonaise was murdered by a Royal Canadian Air Force colonel operating on behalf of major British and American corporations and the Illuminati, because her father refused to assist America's enemies in planning 9-11. Yes, people grownups believe this.

Starting point is 02:01:20 People with more free time than me. Just like with the aliens, why the fuck would train to assassins leave such a weird crime scene behind when I just have her disappear forever? And even arguably, weirder theory is that some people think a wolf killed her. Mm-hmm, I'm going to repeat that. Some people believe their six year old was murdered by a fucking wolf, big dog, and the Boulder PD couldn't figure that out.

Starting point is 02:01:42 And an investigation involved God knows how many officers and dragged on for over 20 years. Did the wolf chelgar? Did the wolf put on that little garot, you know? The wolf changer clothes? The wolf right there, fucking notes? How does the ransom note work into that? Good question. The stereo holds its use attacked by a wolf

Starting point is 02:01:57 and her parents freaked out. Think they get in trouble for not protecting their daughter from wolves, you know, because that's the thing. So they covered up a wolf murder by staging a kidnapping. Anyone over the age of 12 who believes that should be sterilized forever. Not kidding. Now let's look at a few YouTube comments left under a video called program to kill. Satanic cover up part 31, John Bene case, John and Passy Ramsey.

Starting point is 02:02:19 Her my favorite comments. Think tank supervisor, Deborah Rimer posts, this reeks of multi-generational MK Ultra Mind Control programming, Lord Helpus. Good job, Deb. Thanks for showing up. Multiple generations of people with regards to mind control by the CAA, right? All this training, all this investment, also a six-year-old can be killed. A girl who, you know, could also just be run over if they wanted her gone. But nope, you had this long complicated, I can lots of training, mind control, weird shit takes decades. Kill this kid. Obvious Ivy League sociology professor Jerry, jamify posts. Trauma-based mind control, they were preparing her to become a Hollywood elite sex slave and it got out of hand, maybe,

Starting point is 02:03:00 oh sure, Jerry, maybe, or maybe you're fucking crazy. Hollywood elite sex slave, why don't you go hang out with Corey Feldman? You guys would love each other. A men's and member eyes to see post shadow government, Satanic cover up, snuff film, CIA, Christmas is a high blood sacrifice day. Thanks, eyes to see. You just really opened our eyes to your ability to throw at random conspiracy terms. I can do that too Just check this out, right? I see your terms and I raise you a Janet 21

Starting point is 02:03:32 Denver Airport builder burgers Bohemian Grove Flat Earth Wizards Probably not even a troll Michelle post. I am sure Hillary Clinton is a part of all of this. Oh, man, think about how fun Michelle beat of hangout with if she actually believes shit, this stupid.

Starting point is 02:03:51 I love, it kills me. The, the killerly stuff, what people will believe, the specific details they'll believe, they'll believe shit like the Hillary Clinton, who was the fucking first lady in 1996, took time away from White House duties to kill a six year old pageant contestant and boulder and then hire a body in the basement. You think someone may have noticed the first lady lurking about in the neighborhood. Maybe notice she was in the White House and secret service agents never let her out of their fucking side in public.

Starting point is 02:04:18 You need to get sterilized as well, Michelle, for sure, forever. Any kids you have need to be taken from you. Finally, Enkogi, Ne, To, just much gibberish, ex-posts, the word Burke as defined in the World Book Dictionary from 1974 is to kill by suffocation or strangulation. The second definition is to conceal. That actually is true. It's true. It does, toe ex, that's true. And the word coincidence means a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent casual, casual connection, casual connection.

Starting point is 02:04:50 And the second definition of the word lunatic is an extremely further foolish or an eccentric person. That's you. This kid was at named Burke so he could grow up and strangle his sister, you paranoid, fuck wacky dudes. Stop it. Good job. Fuck off YouTube.

Starting point is 02:05:03 Sounds better with your life. And the different definition of the word flustered mush mouth. It's dick, oh, it's, ah! Strugglers doing so well for half, and then, ah, then I got tripped up. But I felt good, I felt good just take a little break from all the heaviness and just look into other maniacs. Let's go out of here. Okay, so final thoughts. We likely will never know who killed John Bony. Rams, you know

Starting point is 02:05:31 that now. Tons of books have been written by tons of people involved suspects, detectives, private investigators, you know, on and on and on. And the one thing they all agree on is nothing. Maybe that's another reason this case is fast-annered for so long, you know, we meet sex to not like unsolvable puzzles. We like answers. In this case, it feels like there should be some answers, but there aren't any. Nothing definitive.

Starting point is 02:05:51 If I was forced to pick, I thought a lot about this this last week, I would say the Jaminé was not molested and that her brother did it. I would say that it was an accident and that the parents freaked out and then decided to cover it up in a panic attempt to protect their son. Well, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Starting point is 02:06:11 It does make the most sense to be the Patsy wrote the ransom note. John intentionally messed up the crime scene, wiped out the body, they threw off the investigators with various nonsense, work was not asleep. John and Patsy smart, successful people, maybe even in their shock, you know, and then trying to pull themselves together to protect their son and they just come up with his fucking convoluted plan.

Starting point is 02:06:31 And then once they start on that road, maybe they're worried that they'll be implicated as well, you know, and now they're going to suffer also. I don't know, I think if I had to pick, that's what happened. It seems to be the least ugly truth of anything that could have happened as far as I can think, you know, accidental blow from her brother, far better faith in some pervert breaking in and terrifying Jean-Banay before she died. Terrible for the parents of it is true. You know, can you imagine having two kids have it one killed the other? Whew, for parents, maybe that, maybe that is the worst scenario than anything else I described to start this suck. So, in peace, Sean, but I hope it was quick and painless, whatever happened.

Starting point is 02:07:08 Time now for top five takeaways. Time, suck, top five takeaways. Number one, child beauty pageants are weird and gross. To me, you know, you think your kid is cute, I get it, but maybe just tell them that. Maybe just tell them that they're cute. Give them a healthy self-esteem without dressing up like, you know, a pito porn stars. Number two, the murder of the six year old beauty pageant winner, John Bonne, will likely never be solved, despite over a thousand pieces of evidence, thousands of man hours investigating.

Starting point is 02:07:37 From the initial ceiling of the crime scene by John Bonne's family and their friends to the lack of concrete evidence to pin any one person to the crime, to no investigator seemingly being able to agree on anything. And the death of several suspects this mystery will remain a mystery. Number three, why did the story become so popular? I think America was captivated by the death of a pretty little girl because a lot of us American meat sex worship beauty. We care more about pretty people than lady Ned's, which maybe work on changing that a bit.

Starting point is 02:08:04 Number four, if brother Burke didn't have anything to do with Jean-Benei's murder, then besides her, he's the biggest victim in all of this. His family is thrown into the center ring of a media shit show and he himself became a hated murder suspect at the age of nine. In September of 2016, to honor the 20th anniversary of Jean-Benei Ramsey's death, Burke Ramsey came forward, even out of the public spotlight for a long time, wanted to share his side of the story for the first time on Dr. Phil.

Starting point is 02:08:29 Ramsey poured out his heart, Dr. Phil described the emotions he underwent saying, I remember the viewing, the casket was small. Her eyes were closed, I wanna honor her memory by doing this interview, I don't want anyone else to forget. He also said in the interview that for the last 20 years, I wanted to grow up like a normal kid,

Starting point is 02:08:44 which does not include going in front of TV cameras. Currently Burke Ramsey is a computer analyst who works remotely from his home-based office. Man, maybe I was wrong about best case being a Burke actually killing her. Now I'm hoping he didn't do it. I hate this case! Everyday I have research that I suspect something else. You know, fuck it, this is aliens. Okay, this is aliens.

Starting point is 02:09:03 Illuminati aliens, maybe that's it. Number five, new info. Another theory that's been popping up, you know, more and more, it claims that the murder of Jean-Benae is linked to the murders of two other little girls in Colorado and Hawaii. Retired police investigator James Benish is of the belief that the murder of seven-year-old Tracy Marie Neif in 1974 and the killing of four-year-old Lacey Ruff in 1993 have something to do with John Benay's murder as far as the same killers all the girls were between the ages of four and seven were abducted and killed in a similar fashion he thinks they were killed by brothers Aaron and Todd

Starting point is 02:09:36 Shlun Sean Lowe there you Sean Lowe when Tracy Neath was kidnapped to 1984 members of the Sean Lowe family were living close to Tracy's house in Thornton. Also they were living close to Lacey Ruff when she was abducted and killed in Kauai. After Lacey's father discovered her body, Todd Call DePolice said his brother Aaron had abducted sexually assaulted and killed Lacey. Aaron was convicted for all of this, since the life in prison. So he couldn't have killed Jean Bain.

Starting point is 02:10:00 He was in jail, but Aaron had previously been in juvenile detention for sexual assaults that he allegedly committed as a minor in Thornton, which is, you know, very near boulder. And when former detective Bennich spoke with the person Aaron had gone to juvenile detention for assaulting, she alleged that it was actually someone else. Sean Lousy relative who had assaulted her. She'd been pressured to say it was Aaron. Bennich believes Aaron conviction may now be called into question and suspects the actual culprit may be involved in the murder of John Bonnet. He thinks that culprit may be the other brother taught. John, yeah, fucking taught, man. So many fucking people in this thing.

Starting point is 02:10:35 When John Bonnet was found dead in 1996, it's unclear where the Shlantlau family were based, but in May that year, a male member of the family was arrested for assault, as well as for domestic violence at a county close to Boulder. This means that the man could have, you know, been living in John Bonet's vicinity. Maybe one of the other relatives came to visit him. It's a stretch, I know. It's a stretch, I know. But it's the latest and the never ending shit show list of suspects. Someone as I'm sure considering writing another book about in the John Bonet Ramsey

Starting point is 02:11:01 case. Time suck. five takeaways. Feel like I know way more than I did about this case before we started, but I also feel no closure. Oh my heck, I don't flip it like it. Maybe someday our future robot overlords are gonna figure out what happened to John Bene. Still, if they don't,

Starting point is 02:11:20 the John Bene Ramsey murder case has been sucked. I hope you found it interesting entertaining. Thank you to the time sucked team. Thanks to Queen the suck Lindsey Cummins my scared to death co-host. Thanks for listening to that again. Thanks to high priest of the suck harmony velocamp Reverend Dr. Joe horsecock Johnson paisley Thanks to the bit of liquor app design crew new update almost here to three more rounds of beta testing this past week and so far No more bugs fingers crossed Three more rounds of beta testing this past week and so far no more bugs, fingers crossed. Dare I say, new update may be out by the time you hear this or just maybe a few days away.

Starting point is 02:11:50 Thanks also to Axis Apparel, Scripp Keeper, Zach, Flannery. I hope you're feeling better, he's been a little sick. Thanks to Heather Knowledge Ninja Rylinder for additional research. And what's up next week? I don't know, for the first time. I don't know, it's gonna be a surprise, still deciding.

Starting point is 02:12:05 Time travels in two weeks, I know that, space does a vote for that, that'll be a fun and different one. Next week, eh, it's gonna have to find out. No surprise into the show, gonna stick with what I love to end on you, time now for Time Sucker Updates. First update is from Melissa. We're only going to do a few today because we got some big ones, some woppers. I thought this was a good one. Then in a few weeks ago, some heartfelt food for thought.

Starting point is 02:12:37 Melissa writes, Dan, I began listening to you while I had a great deal of time stationed at Fort Knox for training over the summer. Thank you for your service. One of the other trainees enjoyed your show and I have as well. Maybe a little sick myself as I'm, as the longer I'm in the military, the more differences I've seen with people. I'm writing today because you've mentioned several times. I love you have for your children and how the time you have with them after your divorce

Starting point is 02:13:00 has changed. I hope you and your ex co-parent well. Now, we're lucky. We're very amicable. It's half and half. Join Custie, which is nice. Writing as a woman who is also a father's rights advocate. I co-parent well with my daughter's father

Starting point is 02:13:13 and my husband struggles to co-parent with his ex and they're seven year old and three year old daughters. He's a motivator for why I'm a member of the father's rights movement and two soldiers I deployed with who committed suicide after losing everything in divorce battles, including replaceable stuff, but more importantly, access to their children. How not deadbeat, not abusive, not anything bad

Starting point is 02:13:31 about these men that would prevent them from co-parenting. The one thing that made them unfit parents was having a penis. And this is typical in Alabama. 22 states thus far have passed equal parenting as standard unless one parent is deemed unsafe with criminal or drug history as it should be. I wanted to share a news story about a young man that fought for time with his child, fought

Starting point is 02:13:49 against the mother's history of abuse and neglect, had his young child die in the mother's care, then have his rights of free speech stripped and jailed for speaking out against the judge. Yeah, thank you. We checked that out too much to go into detail here today because we got a lot more of what you said to share here. It varies by state and county, but my county takes 5% of each penny collected for child support.

Starting point is 02:14:07 Most yet, a father's pockets. Many 50-50 parenting plans include wavering child support in favor of paying directly to child care and provisions at each parent's home, and one are both parent providing insurance and splitting medical costs. You know, the exact thing you would do if you were parenting under the same roof.

Starting point is 02:14:24 I think this leads to less unwed pregnancies, less babies is meal tickets. And if dads are not only allowed, but kind of push by society to be in babies' lives at conception, maybe less babies made until the man is really sure. Sorry. Can't account for failed birth control, but I know men who have had babies and made the statement that the state can't take more out of their check than they already do. If these types of men are expected to provide half of the physical care, half the diapers, half the waking up, etc.

Starting point is 02:14:52 We not only create more well-rounded children, but we keep the immaturity level of some parents down. Alabama has tried to pass similar bills to the one Kentucky just passed to share for shared custody as default. They get passed in the Senate, but reject in the house. Too much money the state would lose. My husband planned both children in his marriage tried for babies attended. Oh yeah, the money loses also the federal government pays subsidies for sales, collecting

Starting point is 02:15:16 known support orders. Got it. My husband planned both children in this marriage tried for babies attended doctors visit shared and parenting responsibilities until the day his ex asked for divorce and her provisions of care were met. He spent 18 hours a week with his two daughters that comes out to 39 days out of 365 a little more than 10.5%. Gave mom the house no equity asked pays child support was made to feel every move he made was wrong and will be punished.

Starting point is 02:15:39 We put $6,000 into a lawyer were able to get close to 40% of the time but still not labeled as shared custody. Mom has default and veto rights. We will go back to court annually until the youngest is 19 asking for those rights. The constitutional guaranteed rights, rights that should be a no-brainer. I don't care if it costs us $100,000. We're also lucky with our income. Mom is as well.

Starting point is 02:16:00 Could you please talk on these points? Please point out the casey Anthony's of the mother population. Yeah, dads can be bad too. The abuse of the hands of stepdaddies allowed to happen by women yet good dads pushed away. So many songs come to mind father of father of mine from Everclair, all these daddy issues. How many and the courts are fostering them? If you've ever seen a dad crying over his kids, yeah, a hard military man with tears streaming down his face because the court stripped everything he fought for. If you've ever seen a bitch ass mom who made the funeral of his man into a circus and

Starting point is 02:16:27 a pity party for her, if you've ever seen a four-year-old receive a folded flag, not knowing her mom kept daddy away from him, kept him from being able to provide a roof over his own head, even working two jobs. If you knew the feelings, one of these these soldiers struggles with knowing other women are okay doing this to their kids' fathers, then I hope to hear a podcast soon supporting two good parents. Being in the military, I can only lobby so much, but I think if we could fix this one issue, we can lower the overall rate of suicide in the military and if single young dads kept out of their children's lives, thank you, Suck Master, keep on sucking, Melissa. Wow.

Starting point is 02:17:01 Yeah, thanks Melissa for bringing up so many great points. I mean, that's such a big problem in society, absentee fathers, and then the courts do in many cases foster that, which is very unfortunate. Don't keep good dads away from their kids. They should have equal rights. This is something you don't hear about a lot in the push for equal rights, equal parenting rights for fathers.

Starting point is 02:17:19 Equality needs to work in every direction. The idea that mothers are more important to their children than fathers is inherently sexist and just wrong. I've seen some fathers with far more maternal nurturing instincts than some mothers. Should be cased by case, you know, hearing the loss of fathers rights connected to a military suicide is especially tragic. Support two good parents. Put the kids first in divorce as well. I can proudly say that my ex and I both did that. A proudly swallowed a fair amount of pride in my divorce and did what was best for Kylie and Ro and I know a lot of other dads have done the same.

Starting point is 02:17:50 Don't hurt your kids by trying to hurt your ex. It's about the most selfish fucking thing you can do in life. Help someone who needs to hear this message does hear it. Thanks Melissa. I wouldn't have shared it if it wasn't for you. Keep fighting. Hail fucking Nimrod. Now that a lot of great updates about Mormonism,

Starting point is 02:18:05 from Mormons, non-Mormons. Like Melissa, most were very long detailed messages. Only time for one of those. Before we get to it, quick Mormon update, that answered something from me, from Ryan Brewster, who writes, hello there. In regards to Martin Harris taking the first draft of the translated plates,

Starting point is 02:18:22 it is believed that when Martin took the pages to show his skeptical wife, Lucy, she held the pages ransom and said, if the gold plates are real, and Joseph is really translating them, he should be able to do it again, word for word. This is why Joseph said he couldn't translate the same plates ever again, and the translation changed, so the pages may not have been lost, but just kept away from Martin and Joseph. They may be lost now, but I thought this detail was super interesting and worth mentioning. Love the podcast, Ryan Brewster. Wow, that is interesting, Ryan. I was confused about that part and I couldn't get the answers I wanted. That makes so much more sense. Because how would Martin lose them? These super important papers.

Starting point is 02:18:58 Now his wife, you know, took him, wanted Joseph to recreate them so she could see if he was telling the truth. And he didn't. Said God didn't want him to repeat the story. So you know, either God gave him a new vision or, you know, he just knew that if he tried to repeat the initial prophecy, he'd be caught up in a lie. Very, very interesting. Thank you for sharing that. And finally, a very nice update from some Mormon time suckers and spaceships and long time stand up fans Carolyn and Park Mitchell who write,, devout Mormons and we still love you.

Starting point is 02:19:26 You fricking hex-pawn mother trucker. Long time listening to my first time writing in, this topic seemed too important to not reach out with some clarification for your most recent episode. My husband and I are devout members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, Mormons and we listen to your episode on Mormonism

Starting point is 02:19:41 and you'll be pleased to know that we still love you and time suck. We will listen to your stand-up from the beginning, and have been to four of your stand-up shows in Salt Lake City in the most recent live Time Suck. We will continue to be loyal space scissors as we have since day one of your page. Oh, thank you. We also wanted to help clarify a few misconceptions and errors, and thank you for that, as are my favorite kind of updates. We were both raised Mormon, but my mom converted to the church when she was 17 and is the only member of the church in her family, so we understand that to other some of the mom converted to the church when she was 17 and is the only member of the church in her family.

Starting point is 02:20:05 So we understand that to other some of the stories of how the church was founded can be hard to believe. So we weren't offended by how hard you were on Joseph Smith. Each person has to decide for themselves if they believe and we by no means plan to try and convince you. You mentioned the episode around the 1947 minute mark that a 1978 when Spencer W. Kimball received revelation to allow black men and boys to be ordained into the priesthood, this is true,

Starting point is 02:20:28 that he also lifted a ban on women and girls being allowed to enter Latter-day St. Temples. That part needs clarification. Although there may have been some restrictions on Black women and girls going to the temple, which of course is not fair, all of the women and girls have always been allowed to go to the temple.

Starting point is 02:20:41 This is especially true because the temple is where we get married, also called sealed, so it's absolutely necessary for women to be allowed in. I just want to clarify in case anyone had interpreted that as meaning that all women have been excluded from temple services since that is certainly not the case. The second point, no one can truly judge another person's worthiness, but we definitely don't think you are a son of tradition. Here's a good article that explains what that truly means. The short version is, sons of tradition are those who had a sure and perfect knowledge of the truth, then voluntarily turn from it. The first requirement then to become part of this group is to have been members of the LDS church. After that, they would have to go have the truths revealed to them

Starting point is 02:21:17 with such sureness and clarity that there would be no doubt in their minds about the truthfulness of the Mormon gospel. So basically it's impossible for you to be a son of a predation because you never became a member of the church and I assume you haven't had any visions or revelations that have made you absolutely certain that the LDS church is true and then decided to actively work against it. So yeah, yeah, not being sent to Satan's out of realm. I like that part of the update a lot. Uh, three, I have to say I was disappointed by how you just glazed over the Hans Mill

Starting point is 02:21:44 massacre around 125. I appreciate that you mentioned it. I thought you would have at least commented on the terrible atrocities that occurred there. No matter what religion someone belongs to, they do not deserve to be murdered in cold blood after they have surrendered. Have their bodies mutilated, their wives assaulted, their houses pillaged. Many accredited stories, states, these tragedies and more were inflicted on Mormons that day and on many other occasions.

Starting point is 02:22:05 Yeah. So, yeah, bother me that you failed to mention that none of these men were ever investigated or prosecuted despite their being eyewitnesses and numerous written accounts of what happened. This was made even worse by the fact that Missouri State government was so heavily involved in their persecution and violence against the Mormons. If you spend so much time pointing out how silly some of these things we believe are, you should at least spend a few minutes expressing how wrong it is that anyone would suffer so much because of their beliefs. Yes, and I'm doing that now. Part of that was, it was just such a big topic to

Starting point is 02:22:31 pull off in a week that, you know, the biggest episode yet, I just, I had to cut some narrative details and there weren't things that I was just, I didn't have time to thoroughly explore and that's one of them. So yes, not not intentional to whitewash it. That being said, I'd also like to thank you for your kind words about warmans. I'm glad you've enjoyed your interaction with us. Mm-hmm. Oh, heck yes I have. My husband and I truly believe that the best way to gauge the worth of any organization, religious secular, even the cult of the curious, is by the good they do and the lives they live. I like that. I like that a lot. So far this is so long. Just want to

Starting point is 02:23:02 let you know that we appreciate you doing your very best to be impartial. You haven't offended all of us. Your loyal space is there's Carolyn. Said like the last oh shit, Karlin. Hi, you correct me, you knew I'd fuck it up. You knew I'd frick it up. I'd flip it up. Karlin said like the last name of comedian George Karlin, yes, and Parker Mitchell.

Starting point is 02:23:19 So many messages like that were sent and so many devout Mormons who listened to everything I said and are okay. And we'll listen this week. Kudos to you. In my opinion, it's so admirable, especially today when it feels like so many people want to just get outraged. Right? And this would be something to be worsen some outrage.

Starting point is 02:23:34 I said this on the Secret Suck last Thursday, but I want to say it again here before I leave. I just applaud many of you Mormons for being able to laugh at your own religion, especially those of you who are deeply faithful to take a lot of strength and confidence, a lot of courage. I think to be able to laugh at ourselves is very important. Life is so much fun for all of us when we're all not offended all the time. You know, what if we lived in a world where we could all joke and be a reverent and talk things out and learn about each other and not get all been out of shape over the opinion of someone else and not have that knee jerk reaction of storming off, taking our toys,

Starting point is 02:24:03 running home crying, when we hear something we don't like or agree with, and then not talk about it later, our world is good, very good, but how much better would it be if that was the reality we lived in? One where we can disagree, and then get the heck in flip over it! Oh my goodness!

Starting point is 02:24:18 Hey, like you, Mormons, thank you for sending that in. Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. That's all for this week. Another long one. Dang it. I blame the script keeper. Two of us doing research together. Just too much shit we could fucking sucked into. Don't dress your little ones in close fit for rebellious 17-year-old and parade them out

Starting point is 02:24:42 on a catwalk this week. And just most importantly, guys, guys dang my heck, would you just keep on sucking? Good, you have time for it, it'd be good. BPI specializes in taking your hard to solve case and continuing to never fucking solve it ever. BPI specializes in taking your hard to solve case and continuing to never fucking solve it ever.

Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 158 - The Mysterious Death of JonBenet Ramsey

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