Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 176 - Serial Killer Joseph Duncan

Episode Date: January 27, 2020

Joseph Duncan. What a terrible, terrible dude. This was one of the hardest episodes we've done yet. I knew it would be dark, but, I didn't know it would be THIS dark. The worst of Duncan's crimes happened just a few miles from the Suck Dungeon. In mid-May of 2005, Duncan brutally murdered three family members just outside of Couer d'Alene Idaho. He also kidnapped two more and did unspeakable things to them. And he sits on death row today for these and other terrible crimes. If the true crime episodes are not your favorites... sit this one out. Check out Lynze and I's new horror podcast Scared to Death. Listen on Spotify, Stitcher, iTunes, Youtube, and more! Here's the iTunes link: https://apple.co/2MRMgai We're donating $4,000 to the Tim Tebow Foundation's Night to Shine. To find out more, go to https://www.timtebowfoundation.org/night-to-shine-host-information 2020 Toxic Thoughts Tour Standup dates: http://dancummins.tvLas Vegas, NV Jan 30 - Feb 2 Jimmy Kimmel's Comedy Club CLICK HERE for tix!Brooklyn, NY Feb 8 The Bell House CLICK HERE for tix! Washington DC Feb 9 The Improv CLICK HERE for tix! Huntington Beach Feb 14-16 The Rec Room CLICK HERE for tix! St Louis Feb 20-22 Helium CLICK HERE for tix! Salt Lake City Feb 28-29 Wiseguy's CLICK HERE for tix! Listen to the best of my standup on Spotify! (for free!) https://spoti.fi/2Dyy41d Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/IJODTJ6orpI Merch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ Want to try out Discord!?! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna become a Space Lizard? We're over 7000 strong! Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast Sign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits.

Tough topic today. Yikes. I knew it would be heavy, but damn. Joseph Duncan is a monster. And what he did in particular to one Idaho family who lived just a few miles from where I record in this suck today is truly heart breaking. Joseph is 56 years old and has spent all but six of his adult years in prison and after learning about his many crimes, feels like it was six years too many of freedom. He was also incarcerated as a juvenile, but again, probably for not long enough. Was he born bad? Maybe he has four siblings, none of which to my knowledge have criminal records. At least one of those siblings says that his childhood was totally normal. So what happened to Joseph Duncan? His violent sexual attacks date back to at least as young as when he was 15 and possibly much younger than that, possibly attacking and raping other children for years prior at

that point. And then in May of 2005, we'll on the run from the law after being charged from molesting two young boys in Minnesota, he stalked an Idaho family for several days and then he unleashed to hell upon them. People he'd never met, people who had never done anything to him at all. And the survivor of this attack is still struggling with the damage he did to this day. We look into the despicable life of real life monster, Joseph Duncan, today on another true crime This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to Time suck. You will be staying to talk some. Happy Monday, meat sex.

Be glad you have never met Joseph Duncan. If hopefully you you never met him. Taken the cult of the curious on a dark journey this week, hail Nimrod. May he protect you from dirt bags like Duncan, praise loose of Fina. May she in the great boat, jangles also watch over you and made the soothing sounds of triple M remind you that there was a, there was a lot of light in the world too, not just the darkness of Joseph Duncan. I'm Dan Cummins, a suck master, the commander in suck, the suck tater. And you are listening to time suck recording today in CDuck, the Suck Tater and you are listening to Time Suck recording today in CDA, the scene of today's, some of today's crimes and recording with a, you know, a lot of people in house, Queen of the Suck Lindsey, high priest, this Harmony Velocamp, Reverend

Doctor, you know, horsecock Johnson, Joe Paisley, all in the Suck dungeon today. Hope and I had fun in Sacramento this past weekend, recorded this ep in advance, getting ahead on content. So I'm not dragging ass for the recordings. You know, it looks, it looked as if a lot of people were going to be coming out to the shows in Sacramento. So I'm going to guess that I had a blast. Let's go with that.

Toxic Thoughts tour heads to Viva Las Vegas this weekend, Super Bowl weekend at Jimmy Kimmel's comedy club. And then it's one show with the bellhouse in Brooklyn, one show at the improv in Washington, DC almost sold out. And then a full weekend at the rec room and Huntington Beach for Valentine's Day weekend. And then it's off to St. Louis and Salt Lake City where shows are already selling out in those markets as well. Thank you all for that. And then so many more places, so many more fun places, all the tour dates up at Dancomans.tv. I got a cute new shirt in the time-slug shop today. That's right, a cute one.

I want a kid to wear, not getting trouble, or get some stink eyes in school because it says something horrific or feature is an illustration of a serial killer or something. This one says reading rules. Late 80s, early 90s vibes on the font, and then it says time-slug podcast, little less aggressive than many of our other offerings.

And reading does rule. Constantly reading articles and books, you know, book apps, excerpts, to figure out what the hell I'm talking about each and every week here. So be a reader. You know, so good for that brain muscle of ours. Give it a word workout every week. Last charity reminder for the month of January, we gave $4,000 this month to the Tim Tibo foundations. Night to shine.

Hail Nimrod. Night to shine is a special prom night only for kids with special needs age 14 and older to find out more. Go to TimTiboFoundation.org slash night to shine host information. Link in the episode. Disgrip. Thank you for the continued ratings and reviews online. Great way to spread the suck and help to help the show grow. The ratings have been so nice lately.

It actually makes me a little nervous. Feel like I have to somehow find more time to put it into the show grow. The ratings have been so nice lately, it actually makes me a little nervous. Feel like I have to somehow find more time to put it into the show to make it worthy of praise. Okay, I feel like I wanna say more things to avoid. This topic a little bit, but at its topic time, gonna tell the twisted tale of a yet another man who instead of taking responsibility for his actions continues to tirelessly blame

others, including society for his own terrible, terrible choices. Joseph Edward Duncan III once said, the world will know who I really was and what I really did. I am scared, alone, and confused, and my reaction is to strike out toward the pursuit, toward the perceived source of my misery, society. My intent is to harm society as much as I can, then die. What you really did, Joseph, was harm society a whole bunch, that part, okay,

yeah, you harm society. But who you really are, just, oh, just scared, confused, and lonely, get the fuck outta here. You're a fucking monster who chose to be a monster, because you love it, because you get off on it. You're fucking evil. Evil comes to mind way before scared and lonely does. Get ready to really, really hate this motherfucker.

Joseph Duncan is one of the worst human beings we've talked about so far here on Time Suck. If you're a long time sucker, you know that that's saying an awful lot. Today's suck has echoes of Albert Fish and David Parker Ray, the toy box killer, echoes of Joseph Fritzel, Joseph Duncan is a murderer, a rapist, a pedophile, a kidnap or a child murderer, a child torture. He's the worst of the worst, the scum of the earth, someone who seemed to want to inflict as much evil as he could upon the world before he died. And he hasn't inflicted so much evil. And maybe there is more still to come because he is still alive. He would end up being acquitted of all charges, due to some procedural errors. And for what I understand, he now works at a Starbucks in

Madison, Wisconsin, the one on University Avenue. You know, he just can't make you a frappuccino if you're under the age of 18. No, thank God that is a fucking lie. Jesus Christ. That was the truth. I would kind of hope that a lot of you. Jesus Christ. That was the truth. I would kind of hope that a lot of you were headed to that Starbucks, like an old time fucking Lynch mob that takes in pitchforks to him. No, if this guy had got out,

I'm pretty sure some vigilante would have already killed him. He's extremely killable. He's rotting in prison. And actually that's not technically true. He's in prison. He's living in prison. 56 years old and car straighted on Death Row,

but healthy, eating three warm meals a day, watching TV, listening to the radio. Death Row has been on my mind a lot lately. I just watched a fantastic movie with my wife, Linsie, just mercy. Michael B. Jordan, Jamie Foxx, really the whole cast, knocks it out of the park. I'm guessing that movie will win a ton of awards.

It's about people, mainly black men being put on Death Row for crimes they did not commit, or for crimes that, you know, maybe shouldn't warrant the death penalty because of circumstances. And at the end of the movie, a stat on the screen says that one in 10 death row inmates are innocent. Can't remember where that stat calms down. Not sure the film even says, not sure it's correct either. From what I can tell, after doing some extra digging, the number is probably closer to one

in 20 or one in 25 based on the study that I found. Still, whether the number is one in 10 or one in 25, way too many meets acts being incarcerated for crimes they didn't commit, like the focus of the movie Mr. Walter McMillan, McMillan, man spent 16 years in prison for a crime he did not commit, put on death row for a crime he for sure didn't commit nearly executed for it. He was preposterously innocent, ridiculously framed. The movie is powerful and it made me really rethink my stance on the death penalty. I was leaning towards being, you know, against the death penalty. And then right after watching that movie, I started to read about Joseph Duncan and I started thinking, yeah, but this motherfucker deserves to die. I thought about last week's time sucker update

and how these dirt bags sometimes confess to additional crimes or in prison for life and how that can give families much need to closure and how that is a reason to be against the death penalty. And I started to think maybe we should be against it. And then I dug further into the details of Joseph Duncan's crimes and shit. I hate him so much. I hate

the fact that he lives in Breeze so much after what he's done. And I think you will too, after you hear about what this real life devil did, I wonder if you two would like to at least chain Duncan up in a medieval dungeon, complete with rats and medieval torture devices like the rack, complete with devices I made up on an old episode of the suck like Jupiter's twist we twist off as nipples I mean, can't some people like Duncan at least be tortured maybe torture a bit less whenever they confess to more crimes and give families closure Maybe maybe torture by a hunch, you know, hunchback, you know kind of pasty face henchmen who says stuff like I mean, he thinks you ain't gonna like this one bit No one likes it when I files up the torch

And he thinks you ain't gonna like this one bit. No one likes it when I files up the torch. No one likes it when I get out the cheese grater and takes it to your neck. I don't know, fellow meat sacks, it's hard to be rational about this piece of shit. This one shocked me a bit. So often these tales I tell about horrible crimes seem so far away, I know that they happen.

I would have felt like they couldn't happen here, not in my neighborhood, but they already did. The grade school, Summit of Duncan's victims attended just a few blocks from the suck dungeon. The Montana woods were one of the victims was rapes tortured and killed less than a two hour drive from my house. Those woods were just a few miles, a handful of miles.

From where Lindsey and the kids and I have stopped numerous times for snacks, gas, and coffee on several occasions on the way back from camping in Montana. I only associated this area with happiness until this week. So we're Lindsey and I first actually let little penny pooper. One of our doodles out to go to the bathroom for the first time after we took her home when she was so little like it, I could hold her sash a little button one hand. Once upon a time, not that long ago, Joseph Duncan drove past that same gas station

with two very scared kids. Kids who just witnessed an almost unimaginable tragedy, kids about to experience so much more horror, that really happened. Shikits dark today, really dark. It's a toy box, toy box suck, or if the fritzel suck was too much for you, or if you sat those ones out, you might want to sit this one out as well. We'll have a new suck next week. If you're still in, don't say you weren't warned.

There, yeah, there are just some aspects to this one that are particularly haunting. Duncan is one of those rare people who took a hard turn into darkness at a very, very young age. By the time he was old enough to drive a car, he was already confessed serial sexual offender, admitting to over a dozen violent rapes of young boys by the time he was just 16. As a teenager, he would bind his victim, sometimes I'll hold in a gun to their heads and repeatedly rape and assault them. And he'd get caught for crimes like this. Long before the murders and torture and rape that happened to people who lived just a few miles somewhere I'm recording

this episode. After his early crimes, he'd be released, then he'd be caught again for doing something else, absolutely terrible, and then he'd be released again. Every time he'd get released, he'd quickly get right back to sexually assaulting children. And before long, he'd be murdering kids too. And then on May 16th, 2005, he chose a random Northern Idaho family that lived just an exit or two down the freeway from my house. I've driven by the side of the killings many times, just so just yesterday, as I record this, and he completely fucking destroyed them. He inflicted so much evil on a group of people who had never done anything to him.

So let's dig into one of the worst crimes, if not THE worst crime in Idaho State history, by starting as we often do with the very beginning, we're marching down a time suck timeline. On February 25th 1963, the Devil smiled. Maybe even fist bumped or high-fired to demon, and we played the colliope at day with a little more satanic enthusiasm. Maybe maybe it's maybe uttered a little quick little fuck yeah bro. Let's do is going to be to one of us can do some damage. He's super evil. Joseph E. Duncan the third was born into coma, washten even though some reports listed

as being born in New Orleans Louisiana, you know Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Sadly the delivery doctor when he was born into coma did not snap his fucking neck. He's one of five kids in a military family headed by Joseph E. Duncan and Lillian May Duncan. Very little has been written about his early life and childhood as a youth. He was considered bright, but bored with school. Duncan has said in interviews from prison that his family moved around a lot, including overseas due to his father's military career.

Duncan says he committed some acts of burglary, started shoplifting at a very early age in grade school. He's told therapists and counselors that there was always a lot of turmoil in his home and that his parents were often fighting with one another. So you know, he had to rape and kill. I mean, you get it. If your mom and dad argue in front of you a lot

when you're growing up, what are you supposed to do? Not rape and kill? Go to therapy? You can always your life and not be a piece of shit. Come on. According to his mother, Lillian, Duncan didn't have that many friends while growing up. He struggled socially, wet the bed until he was 13 years old.

And based on what Duncan would later say about his own childhood and his activities, smart of kids, not to be friends with him. Didn't work out well for a lot of kids who were in his orbit. He got teased at school for wearing dirty underwear. He'd wet the night before. As a former chronic bed wetter, if anyone had been keeping score when I was a kid, I may have set records for frequency longevity and overall bed wetting spillage.

I got to say, I feel comparatively pretty well adjusted, considering how many other sheet soakers and mattress stainers grew up to become terrible murderers. So, if you're a young bed wetter listing right now, I hope that brings you some comfort. I hope it's inspiring. You might not grow up to be a murderer. You might just grow up to be a super-demanded and fucked up podcaster. And comic who's only, uh, whose own family continually questions his mental stability. Duncan, uh, always according to his mother had a terrible temper. Duncan's

mother may have also given him that terrible temper. Maybe his siblings have given very conflicting reports about his childhood. According to Joseph, sister Sherry Cox, who would take the stand to try and have her brother spared of the death penalty, she said that their mother, Lillian, was a monster. Sherry said that quote, she and her four siblings were frequently beaten by their mother while she ranted that quote, she and her four siblings were frequently beaten by their mother while she ranted that men were worthless and described her mother as a crazy woman who attended church obsessively every day. It was like a, it was like the makings of another series of stiff cockskirvy jokes. You know, a stiff being a time sucks, bizarre a world Jeff Foxworthy who tells

you might be a killer joke, she said you might be a redneck jokes. When we look into cartoonishly horrible childhoods that seem to have been destined to lead to an adult life of murder. If you're mama, be to live in hell out of you. When you were a little boy and told you that men were worthless and went to church all the time and you went to bed and kids at school might find you from wearing peace tamed underwear. Well, you might not be starting quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers.

You might be a killer. Sherry said that Joseph didn't fight back when their mom beat him. Sherry said that he took the abuse because if he didn't, Lillian would only abuse him even more. She said he just took what she gave and kind of whimpered off into his bedroom.

Sherry says that she was abused as well, but was she? Was Joseph? Is any of this true? Their brother, their brother Bruce says, no, it is not true. He has spoken very differently about their childhood. He says that Sherry and Joseph are essentially full of shit. Bruce says that he was never abused. And he doesn't remember anyone else, Sherry or Joseph, or any of the other children being abused either. Bruce said that he was never abused and he doesn't remember anyone else, Sherry or Joseph or any of the other children being abused either. Bruce said that he and Joseph and Sherry and the rest of the family went to church, that he and Joseph were in the boys' counts and that they had totally typical childhoods. He says their mama only beat the boys when they chewed with their mouths open at the

dinner table, which I get, right? Shoot your fucking mouth closed. He didn't say that. He said the first stuff, not the beatings and anything else. Joseph would tell you get another version of a childhood. Yeah, he doesn't talk about being abused by his mother, but he does talk about incest. Duncan told one of his prison therapists

that his first sexual encounter occurred in 1971 when he was just eight years old, says he had sex with not one, but two of his sisters, doesn't name either sister, but it was hard to get accurate details of his siblings. There's the interviews with one brother and one sister, and then the rest of the time, there's referred to his siblings

in the books and articles. So there's a good chance he only has two sisters, which would then kind of be like, okay, he didn't need to name him because it was his only two sisters. He says that they were the initiators of this sexual, you know, act is is true, who knows. Luckily for the purposes of telling a story, we do have more definitive knowledge about the rest of his life. So it's just made up pretty much of either being in prison or doing things that we'll soon put him back

in prison. Early life, that's about all we know, what I just laid out for you, a fair amount of speculation. And then he was born into coma and dad was in the military, mama raised the kids. Duncan told his prison therapist that in 1975, when he was just 12 years old, he committed his first sexual assault by raping a five year old boy, based on later behavior, I want to say this claim is probably true. This is something he was never charged with, but it's something he told again, a prison therapist. Three years later, 1978, when Joseph was 15, he was never charged with, but it's something he told again, a prison therapist. Three years later, 1978, when Joseph was 15, he was arrested for the first time.

This definitely happened. There are records. He stole a car, led police on a high-speed chase. The chase ended when he crashed the car into a roadblock and then tried to flee from the scene. The police chased down the teen who was injured badly enough to need reconstructive surgery on his face in the car crash. Joseph was sentenced to spend several months at the Jesse Dyslin's boy ranch into Koma

Washington treatment center where he may have been introduced to or engaged in even more sexual abuse. This is not part of his biography, but I say it because less than two years ago in 2018, two men alleged that they were sexually abused at this same center around the same time that Joseph was there. Sadly, there are dozens of men currently suing the state of Washington for physical and sexual abuse suffered in Washington state juvenile detention facilities. Again, around the time

that Joseph would have been in these facilities. $22 million was paid out not that long ago to 51 men who have been sexually abused at another now closed state treatment facility in Olympia. The okay boys ranch seems that in the 70s and 80s sexual abuse was rampant in Washington state youth incarceration centers. And you're a special kind of dirt bag. When not only do you sexually prey on kids, but you prey on the most vulnerable kids out there, those who have been removed from their families, any source of protection, those least likely to have their complaints taken seriously.

If you're listening and you've sexually abused one of those kids, I want you to do me a favor. Just hear me out. Take a camping trip, just you. No one else. Head way out into the woods where your cell phone doesn't work and don't tell anyone where you're going. Don't tell a single soul where you're going.

Bring a bunch of dry wood and matches and gasoline and just build a big old bonfire for yourself. Get some hot dog, get some s'more materials going really get it going really really yip yip yop yop yop yop yop yop. You know, get that fire nice and hot and big when the flames are so high and so hot that it hurts to even stand near it to roast your s'mores. I want you to pour a little bit more of that gas on yourself and I want you to throw yourself on top of the fire and just fucking lay there until you're dead. If you don't mind, if you could, if you could be so kind, thank you. I appreciate it. While receiving therapy at this boys ranch, Duncan told one of his therapists that he had

already bound tortured and sexually assaulted six different boys and raped and estimated 13 more that I guess he didn't happen to tie up in torture. Unless you count rapist torture, which I do actually. YEEK! So according to this confession, Duncan was already a very active serial rapist by the age of 15 If you lost your virginity at eight to two of your sisters and had already raped almost 20 kids by the age of 15 You might not be winner the next Nobel Peace Prize. You might be killer For reasons never made clear in any of the sources, these rape claims were never fully

investigated. Later 1978, Joseph would claim to have raped another child, an eight-year-old boy at gunpoint. In 1979, Joseph parents get divorced. Sixteen-year-old Joseph has said to have taken this hard. His brother, Bruce, who was his best friend, went to live with his dad, Joseph stayed with his mom. Duncan became very withdrawn, started spending most of his time alone in this bedroom, fell into a fairly, fairly serious depression, sleeping most of the day, then sneaking out and doing a god knows what at night. He was attending Lake, uh, Lakes High School in Lakewood, Washington. I want to Ted Bundy's victims, George Han Hawkins graduated from Lakeside just a few years

before. Joseph struggled both socially and academically at Lakeshide. He had few, if any, friends, his report card was full of C's, D's and F's. His GPA was 1.7. He transferred to a vocational school, or he was allowed to study rape, torture, and general criminal activity in Guest Rates. Of course, that's nonsense, but I bet he would have gotten straight A's. Duncan later told a pre-sentence investigator that he was smoking marijuana on a daily basis

by the time he dinner in high school, maybe a bit too much, you know, to be waking and making every day. Also said that by the time he was in high school, he tried LSD and Fedamines, Barbituets, Valium, and PCP. Definitely a bit much. Duncan would be excessively truant and drop out in 1979 in the 10th grade, and then he would later get his GED in prison. According to his mother, Duncan had a high hopes of joining the Air Force soon after dropping out, but he wasn't accepted. He was reportedly told

he'd have a hard time ever being accepted due to his earlier arrest and the fact that he dropped out. His mom said that she and the rest of the family, like that combination. His mom said that she and the rest of the family worried about his future. Duncan shows little if any initiative, you know, or showed little if any initiative. And the self-esteem was terrible. She said he was also always seeking everyone else as a cruel, but rarely did anything to earn it. That's true.

That is such a frustrating personality trait that I even counted numerous times. The person who desperately wants you to tell them is they're doing a great job. We have a hard time doing that because they don't seem to actually be putting in any effort towards doing a great job. So annoying. Especially when they start doing an even worse job because they're not getting any positive feedback.

That personality seems and starts to form this mindset where everything is always everyone else's fault. You know, why try to improve? Why try and do a good job with no cares? Why work hard? Well, no notices, why try to, you know, improve? Why try and do a good job with no cares? Why, why work hard? Well, no notices. Blame, blame, blame. On the morning of January 24th, 1980, when Joseph is almost 17, he commits another crime he'll be caught for. He breaks into a neighbor's house, steals a handgun, steals him ammunition. Then he finds a 14 year old boy walking alone to school and he, you and he essentially kidnaps him at gunpoint.

Forces him to walk off of his route into some nearby woods threatening to shoot him. He has the boy undressed when they're far away from any possible prion eyes. Then he rapes him. Then he takes him further out into the woods and rapes him again. Then he beats the boys, asks with a piece of wood and then burns him with the cigarette. You know, puts it out on him. Jesus Christ. If you dropped out of school and took a boy out into the woods to sexually attack and then beat their butt with the piece of wood, when you should have been focused on getting

a job washing dishes or making double-decker tacos like a normal 16 year old, you might not be going to Harvard on a full ride. You might be a killer. After raping and abusing this poor kid, Duncan walks the boy back to where he left his clothes, allows him to put his clothes back on, tells him he'll kill him if he tells anyone and then lets him run away. And then police arrest Duncan that night. Luckily, the victim did not listen to him. Duncan was charged with first degree rape with fire arm, first degree burglary and third degree statutory

rape. Duncan pleads guilty and is given a 20 year sentence. He'd served 18 months and two years after that, less than four years after the crime. He'd be able to get a job as a summer camp counselor and Lake Shaland Washington camp clear path sponsored by a local Lutheran church. He would work there for six years. No allegations, advances way up to camp director. Current Washington State governor, Jay Inslee, former 2020 presidential candidate was a counselor at that camp when he was a teen in 1981 and 1982. He remembers Duncan being a strong leader who preached a message of redemption in virtue. Duncan taught him at a sale, use a compass, and play Chinese checkers. Yeah, fucking right.

Now, he didn't fucking do anything good. A governor, Inslee was never at that camp because it never existed, and he would have been a few years too old if it did. And Duncan sadly doesn't seem to have influence literally anyone's life ever in a positive way even one time. Now, Duncan would actually remain behind bars

for the majority of his 20-year sense, mostly because he made zero effort to rehabilitate himself for the first long stretch of his sense. Immediately upon a car, upon incarceration in early 1980, he was forced to take part in his sexual offender program at Western State Hospital. However, in 1982, after just two years in this program, his therapist concluded that therapy was not something that would help him, not something he was interested in. The therapist wrote, he has chosen not to commit himself to our program. And the full grown, Lanky, six, two, 150

pound Duncan, uh, was just, you know, kicked out of the fucking program. He didn't want to adhere to the rules, didn't want to listen to the staff. He was basically a punk. So they sent him back to the state penitentiary where he'd spend the next 12 years and spend a lot of that time separated from the general population because he kept getting caught having sex with other inmates and other, uh, you know, crimes wall in prison. Not sure how much of that sex was consensual. A number of reports written by therapists and prison counselors characterized Young Duncan as a sexual psychopath. Basically, someone not able to be rehabilitated, a deviant who is not fit to ever be let loose to roam the streets of any community. He was caught numerous times

with contraband in his cell. And according to what seems to be the most reliable source on Duncan's youth, a book called Stolen in the Night, the true story of a family's murder, a kidnapping in the child who survived by prolific true crime author Gary C. King. He was even caught while in prison after, you know, he's going there for committing this rape and then he gets caught with child porn. How the fuck that does not add time to his sentence? I do not know. He got 10 days of isolation for that. He was sentenced to various periods of isolation over and over again during his time behind bars

for all sorts of violations. He was caught with porn, bunches of times, he was caught with the VCR, playing porn in the cell. He was also caught with needles, wires, razor blades, you know, written up for numerous acts of quote, sexual deviancy. Prison counselors wrote that he needed continual, close supervision and specialized treatment. Everyone knew this guy was a dangerous piece of shit. Well, like a lot of dirt bags, he eventually learned how to become a master manipulator

and work his way out of the system and work the system. In November of 1989, Duncan wrote to parole officers, uh, said that he had made an important decision to explore his feminine traits. You claim to be transgender now. Now, was he really transgender or was he just saying this as a way to offer up some sort of, hey, everybody, I know I was so angry and rapier earlier, but that's because I was struggling with not accepting my true sexual identity. But now I have everything figured out for sure. So you can I'll be a good boy. Let me go and I'll be a good boy and not even hurt somebody for funsies. A pinky swear. Duncan also talked to the parole board about how important his Christian faith was. You know, you really reconnect with it.

No way he's going to be raping McGee now. Not now with Jesus by his side. Uh-uh. He'd have Jesus right there. He started to rape Jesus and be like, Hey, bud. Why don't you put the gun down? Put your weight in the way. You see those tears? Those are fun tears. You hear those please?

Those aren't fun please. This person doesn't want you to put a gun to their head and put your penis in their butthole with no loop. Ah, that's right. Thanks Jesus. I totally forgot. I'm so glad you're here now. Duncan always became a, also became a pen pal That's right. Thanks Jesus. I toy forgot. I'm so glad you're here now.

Duncan always became, also became a pen pal with creep David Wilford in 1989. I will never understand these prison pen pal people that form like romantic or emotional relationships with the fucking worst people on earth. What is going wrong in your life when you're looking into prison to find a lover? When you think that a convicted child rapist, that's going to be the person, you know, you

can spend the rest of your life with. Wilford began talking to Duncan on the phone. He started traveling to see Duncan. He'd sometimes drive 270 miles from his home near Tacoma to visit Duncan at the state prison in Walla Walla. In 1990, Washington became the first state in the nation to pass a law allowing the state to keep sex, fenders, and carstrated after they'd served prison sentences through a process called civil commitment.

We talked about this at length and sucked 127 pedophile island. So technically, authorities could keep Duncan behind bars now if they still deemed him a threat to society. However, because Joseph was only 16 when the rape at gunpoint occurred and because the victim was only two years younger than he was, his crime wasn't taken as seriously as it would be if he were like, say, 42 and the victim was eight and he, you know, he wasn't made a priority to keep behind bars, which is a bummer because years later, when he was 42, he would victimize an eight year old.

David Wilfert eventually became something of a sponsor of Duncan's. He wrote to the parole review board on Duncan's behalf saying, Mr. Duncan is filled with remorse for the act he committed many years ago. Further incarceration of Mr. Duncan will serve no purpose whatsoever. Not true. Would have kept a lot of people safe. He very wrong about that. Further incarceration would have saved at least five lives, three of whom were children. Five years later, Duncan was paroled after 14 years in prison with the understanding

that he was have to, that he was to have absolutely zero contact with children. Right? Tell him, Pito, to stay away from kids. Has that ever worked? Has it ever really worked? Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna let you out, you know, but to be very clear, you're not to fuck any kids anymore, okay? Like, for reals, pay me swear. Don't even molest one for funsies, okay? I promise, look at me in the eye and promise. Okay, all right, he promise, he's good now. Look, look, look, go wrong.

Upon release, the now 31 year old Duncan would move into a halfway house, interaction transition house, which is still in use in Seattle to try and straighten up his life. He got a job as a telemarketer, told his parole officer. He was exploring healthy adult relationships. He went to a retreat for gay men and Levinworth, his parole appointed therapist, actually went with him to observe how he would interact with other grown men.

And he seemed to do just fine, but he was not just fine. He was hiding his true self. He was just wasting a lot of tax paramount money, manipulating those around him and to think that he wasn't a lost cause, which he for sure is. He was hiding his true self. He was just wasting a lot of taxpayer money, manipulating those around him and to think that he wasn't a lost cause, which he for sure is. 1996, he got a job at a software company as a technical support representative. He showed that he could do a good job if he wanted to. One of the managers there said of him out of 30 temporary reps that I hired during the

holiday season, Joe stands out as one of the best all around performers. And I would not hesitate to hire him again. probably not as a babysitter, but as a, yeah, technical support representative. Computers interested Duncan a great deal and he would pursue a career in computers later. I don't guess he was probably intrigued by the possibility of getting really good at finding and hiding kitty porn or maybe just accessing children through the, I mean, through the web. I can't imagine this dude had any good intentions with computers.

Also in 1996, Duncan got in trouble as a parole officer for not seeking permission to visit relatives and others. He got trouble for marijuana possession, got in trouble for having a firearm in 1996, all parole violations. He was sent back to jail for 30 days. Later in 1996, he likely committed his first murders. He was never charged with these killings, but he did confess. So hell was my, he is a killer. After Duncan served his month behind bars, he was staying in a few blocks from a motel

to two young girls, 11 year old, Samoyeho, White, and nine year old Carmen Cubias were staying at. I looked up picture of these two poor kids. They have big smiles, lots of attitude. They looked at us, they were the best kind of troublemakers. Looked us like they were tough. They had, you know, tough spirits, had their whole lives ahead of them. And then Joseph Duncan shows up and just needlessly takes those lives away. The two sisters, despite their young age, were leaving the motel just before 11 p.m.

to go get cigarettes for their older brother. God damn. Why are we these kids running around late at night by and smokes? Well, because they're single mom who just moved to Seattle from the tri cities or his Reverend doctor Paisley calls it the dry shitties. She just had her ninth kid. These kids were used to panhandling and a local charity paid for them to stay in their motel. The family was having tough times. Family was not a good place. Mom had way more kids than she could provide for and the kids were just kind of running a muck because these kids and their siblings were known to stay out late. The police were slow to search for them. The police still didn't know if the girls had run away or were victims of an actual crime until almost two years later when their

bodies were found on February 10th, 1998 in Bothal, Washington, a suburb of Seattle, their heads had been crushed in. Experts concluded that the two were probably killed shortly after the kidnapping. The case was considered cold until August of 2005 when Joseph Duncan told an FBI investigator about the crimes. Why did he do it? He did it, quote, for pure, unadulterated revenge. Revenge for what?

For being thrown in prison for 14 years, un-fucking real. You weren't framed, you piece of shit. You were put in jail for rape in a 14 year old in the woods twice at gunpoint and then torturing him. And what did these two kids have to do with that? It's mind boggling how some monsters can rationalize horrible behavior, right? They'll tell themselves anything other than the truth and seem to believe it.

Don't start telling yourself little lies because the truth is painful and unpleasant. That's a nasty, slippery slope that can lead to becoming a duncan. If you do something shitty, I want to have to do it. Let that shame you feel, motivate you to be better going forward. Shame is good in a lot of instances. If you never feel it, well, you should worry about yourself. If you're like, nah,, you should worry about yourself. If you're like, nah, I'm not ashamed of anything I did.

What you probably fucking should be? We've all done shitty stuff. Shame motivates us, not do it again. Hail Nimrod and fuck Joseph Duncan. And eyewitness would later confirm that she saw Duncan and a frightened girl fitting the description of Carmen Cubias at a grocery store a short time after she went missing.

This would not be the last time to Duncan with with kidnap a child and choose to keep his victim alive for a period of time instead of immediately raping and then killing them. Joseph would kill again the following year in 1997, a 10 year old boy this time, little more revenge. He'd later tell FBI special agent Mike Sotka that he killed this child because he wanted revenge against society again for sending him back to jail for a probation violation. Duncan complained that by going back to jail for a month, he had lost a good job.

So he did the logical thing and killed a random innocent child. I mean, you get it. I mean, it all adds up, right? I feel like Duncan doesn't really understand how revenge works. Maybe he's just fucking dumb. Maybe he doesn't get the concept of revenge. Like you're supposed to target the person responsible for the perceived wrong. You're getting back at someone or something, not attacking something or someone that has nothing to do with anything. Going back to jail for a probation violation, no one

deserve revenge since he hadn't been framed by anyone. But if he had to go out for somebody, his parole officer would make the most sense. That's who enforced the pro-violation. Going after them would still be super fucked up. Any pro-lofters listening, not saying that the people should come for you, but it would at least show a basic understanding of how revenge works, right, this idiot. Ha ha, look at it burn!

How's it feel watching that house burn? Little bit of revenge commons for ruining my life. Hey dude, that's not my house, man. I don't know whose house that is. I don't even, I don't know anything about that place or don't know who's, who's, who's living there. I, I know it's revenge commons. You, I mean, come on, you get it.

You, you fuck with me and I, I fuck with this toll stranger unrelated to cat dammit April 4th 1997 Duncan carries out his revenge by approaching a 10-year-old Anthony Martinez outside the kids' home in Beaumont, California Small city about an hour east of Los Angeles in Riverside County Young Anthony and some of his friends were playing football in his front yard when Duncan asked for some help to find a cat All of the boys refused to help this strange man and then Duncan became enraged and just grabbed Anthony. Used a knife to scare Anthony and to get into it. His car sped off and fled the scene. It was a straight up monster.

Just took this kid from his yard. Anthony's body would not be found until eight years later on April 19th, 2005. He died naked and bound, head crushed to a pulp with a rock before dying also brutally sexually assaulted. Also in early 1997, Anthony disappeared, Duncan failed a number of polygraphs

regarding contact with minor children, which is crazy because he promised he would stay away from kids. It's almost like his word didn't mean anything. Right, it's almost like the word of a brutal convicted rapist doesn't mean shit. Apparently fearing that he'd be sent back to prison again because he'd failed those tests,

Duncan cut off communications with his parole officer by claiming that he was staying in his mother's house in Tacoma and that his car wasn't working. Short time later, he completely disappeared, taken off at a 1986 Chrysler New Yorker, the car of some woman he started dating. When his parole officer visited Duncan's mother, she claimed that she hadn't seen him in weeks, didn't know where he was. A warrant was issued for his arrest. He was picked up for a parole violation a few months later.

Where had Duncan gone? Well, he had met a North Dakota pediatrician. That's so gross to me that he's a pediatrician is hanging out with a child rapist. A guy named, I'm not making this up, Dr. Richard Waxman in the San Francisco coffee shop and they started a romantic relationship. And yes, yeah, for real, name is Dr. Dick Waxman, awkward name, Hall of Fame. Note to parents, if your last name has whacking it or if your last name is, I don't know, comments or but hole, don't name your boy Richard. What is that guy had any sweet local commercials advertising his practice? Feeling sick? Come see Dr. Dick Waxman. Dr. Dick Waxman testified on Duncan's behalf and hearing for his parole violation told the court that Duncan was no longer a harm or danger to society that he was a reformed citizen And again, what are you doing as a pediatrician hanging out with anyone who was convicted of a sexual crime against a child fucking ever?

Don't do that Jesus Christ God you can you can graduate from medical school and still be a fucking idiot Yeah, he told he told the court that Duncan could come live with him while he got back on his feet and And I hope is you know he ended his test of my was you can trust me. I'm a doctor doctor dick, Waxman the end of the test went with you can trust me, I'm a doctor, Dr. Dick Waxman. The legal system did not agree with Dr. Dick idiot Waxman's assessment. The parole board sent him back to prison for three years until July of 2000. For the next three years, Duncan and Dick Waxman corresponded continuously, which again is so gross to me.

This guy is an active pediatrician going doing checkups on kids, you know, seeing kids naked all day and then corresponding with a guy who fucks kids Early July of 2000 Duncan visited his mother briefly after being released and then on July 21st He took off to Fargo to go live near dr. Dick Waxman who was married with three children Dr. Waxman also appears to be still practicing medicine in Newport, Richie, Florida, by the way. I looked him up, I did some digging, so you know, if you are a really stupid parent and

want a fucking terrible pediatrician, go find, I don't know if he's it. I should say I don't know anything about his medical practices. I just am basing all of my opinion of the fact that he was associated with Joseph Duncan and that he's still practicing medicine and it just fucking grosses me out. But I wouldn't change a thing about him. Three out of five stars. Immediately upon arrival in North Dakota, Duncan registers with the local police department

is a level three sex offender. Level three offenders have to register because they're considered a high risk for offending again. It's almost like they should never be allowed out of prison. Dr. Waxman helps Duncan out big time, gives him money, plays the stake, gives him a car, pays for his tuition for Duncan to attend North Dakota State University, where he's a computer science major. And I can only imagine that Duncan paid him back by sucking his dick so many times, right?

I mean, what else makes sense? What else was holding Dr. Dick's interests? Duncan did surprisingly well in school in North Dakota state, making the Dean's list twice and the fall of 2000, spring of 2001, he was a member of Phi Capify Honor Society. Don't think for a second he got his shit together. He's a speculative committee multiple, more horrible crimes against children

that began around this time, starting with the murder of a 12 year old in February of 2001. February 15th, Steven had Steven Kraft had taken his two dogs out for an evening walk in Benton Harbor, Michigan. This is a 12 year old kid. He was last seen leaving around 7 p.m. with the dogs. One dog returned home, led Steven parents to a local pond where there was no sign of the boy or the other dog. The other dog, a puppy, was later found alive near a creek. Steven's disappearance would be featured on America's most wanted. He has yet to be

found and Duncan is suspected in his abduction and likely murder. Another case that is possibly the work of Duncan happened the following year in 2002. July 12, 2002, Russell Turkett, a 19-year-old boy was last heard from by his mother when he contacted her for money to get a bus ride back home. He'd made the call from a truck stop in Grand Forks, North Dakota after spending the weekend with friends. His remains were found in Devils Lake about 90 miles east of the truck stop that November. Surveillance cameras put both Russell and Joseph Duncan at the truck stop with an hours

of each other. Investigators believe it is likely that Duncan picked up Russell as he hitchhiked, took him to a remote location, then raped and killed him. Russell's head was crushed in much the same manner as prior victims, like Samého White, Carmen Cubias, and Anthony Martinez. The case is still officially unsolved. Following Summer, Duncan is suspected suspected and yet another brutal murder. Leanne Warner was only five years old

when she went missing on June 14, 2003. She lived with her family in the small, a supposedly saved community of Chisholm, Minnesota. There's 5,000 people way up in Northern Minnesota about an hour's drive northwest of Duluth. And on the day of her disappearance, she was last seen walking to a friend's house in the neighborhood.

When the little girl didn't show up at this friend's house, her parents Chris and Kalen Warner understandably got very worried and began searching for, I can't imagine how terrible they felt. And stories like this are why I wouldn't let my kids out of my sight and tell you around 10 years old. Still getting nervous, something like this is my worst fucking nightmare, I'm such a warrior.

Lindsay had to talk to me and let the kids ride around our block alone. I was initially against them even riding around the block, you know, without an adult because of stories just like this one. Even though I ran around myself all the time when I was a little kid and no one tried to do anything to me. When I was in first grade and my mom and dad were living in Alaska for a little while, I used to walk home from school and let myself into our apartment and anchorage all by myself. As did a lot of other kids. I used to walk home from school and let myself into our apartment and anchorage all by myself. As did a lot of other kids, I was around.

You know, we were fine. Little Leanne, not so lucky. By 9 p.m., her parents had contacted the police. Initially, no one had thought she'd been abducted, just lost. A canine search unit found her sent it nearby long-year lake. Town is built around this lake.

Her footprints were also found around the lake, around the lake. No other evidence was uncovered. Joseph Duncan was known to make frequent trips to that area to go scuba diving. On this very day, he went sky diving with friends near West Fargo, North Dakota, where there are pictures and videos. Fargo's about four hours away in the video he discusses a scuba diving trip that he had just taken in the Chism area. Within a few days of her disappearance. Officers would later think that Duncan made these videos and blog entries to try and establish alibis for his crimes, but there is enough of a window open where he still could have done it.

Duncan discusses this particular crime in his blog in great detail. And yes, this motherfucker has a blog, an active blog that he works on from death row, more on that later. Duncan remained the prime suspect for many years in this crime. He eventually was cleared due to his alibi making a tricky for him to pull it off, but many still think he didn't. Another case that many believe is connected to Joseph Duncan is that of Justin Philip Harris, who disappeared the following year.

13-year-old Justin disappeared from a boy's shelter on the north side of Casper, Wyoming on Valentine's Day 2004. Initially authorities thought he was a runaway since his bed at the RL Mills home, a center for trouble youth, a center for troubled youth. Yeah, gotta, gotta focus. I get so excited. I forget to pronounce what's found stuff with clothes making it appear as if he were still under the covers. There's nothing that ties Harris to Duncan. Other than Duncan's blog states that he went skiing alone in that area over that weekend. Few months later, Duncan definitely for sure sexually assaulted a six-year-old boy, Minnesota. On July 3rd, 2004, in Detroit Lakes, Minnesota, a little town of just over 9,000 people about an hour east of Fargo, the Detroit Lakes Police Department received a report

of a sexual assault at a local middle school playground. When officers arrived at scene to investigate, they met with two juvenile boys, ages six and eight. The boys told the officers they've been playing there when a man drove up in a small, shiny red car. The man they said walked to a secluded area near the playground equipment was carrying a video camera, then called the boys over to where he was waiting. My God!

You ever see some lone wolf bringing a fucking video camera to a playground to wave some kids over intervene immediately? It's like, dude, what are you doing with the video camera for starters? 2020. You just fucking pop out of a time machine to you use your phone like other pedophiles. But for real, like you see a lone wolf coming to a playground, start filming, start waving kids over, do not ever ignore that. Every time, go check that shit out.

That is some stereotypical over-the-top child molester shit, like out of an after-school special or some lifetime movie. It's surprising he didn't drive up in a fucking van with no windows in the back, where an aviator sunglasses in a free mustache rides t-shirt, offer them some candy. When the kids walked up to the man he reached over, pulled down the shorts of the six year old boy, touched his genitals, then he started to pull down the shorts of the eight year old, the kids resisted, they ran away, and I'm sure they're alive right now because of this and the man left the

area. All this happened in broad daylight. The six year old was able to provide a physical description of the suspect. He said that the man had a noticeable bump on his top lip that touched his bottom lip when he spoke. Officers put the sketchy description and they did a sketch of this guy put it into a predatory database. We're able to match it to Joseph fuck that guy Duncan. The data showed the Duncan also was driving a red two door Pontiac Grand Am.

The small, shiny red car that kids described. The six year old was then able to pick Duncan out of a photo lineup of six men. The cops then found another witness who told him that he had seen a red Pontiac Grand Am park near the playground at the time of the assault. And then for some reason, after figuring out that it was very likely Duncan who had done this,

it took nine fucking months for the complaint to actually get filed. And another month before Duncan was called into face to charges before a judge, I guess the criminal system and the bustling burgl of Detroit Lakes, Minnesota was just swapped with more important cases. They had a cow tipping spree, to bring to a halt, you know, they had to find out who had shoplifted more than once a quality bait and tackle on Washington Avenue. They knew it was Bucky Stowers. He was in no good bag of mine, just like his daddy Carl. They just need a more time to find the proof that would for sure get that mist and mean or to stick. I just don't understand things like this.

March 4th, I'm sure there's more to it, but got what? March 4th, 2005, Duncan finally charged for the July 2004 crimes. Although Michael Fritz, the assistant prosecutor and becker County, Minnesota had asked for a $25,000 bail at Duncan's arraignment, the judge set his bail at just $15,000 after Duncan's attorney, Dennis Fisher, told the judge the Duncan was set to finish his degree in computer science within the month, and then he asked some projects.

He needs to address to get his degree. Man, fuck the month. And then he has some projects. He needs to address to get his degree. Man, fuck his projects. Come on, judge. Man, please don't let the fact that he just molested his six-year-old and tried to molest an eight-year-old. Obviously, right, kids at this level three sex offender would have done God knows what to have been able to lure them into his car or something.

Please don't let a little bit of diddlin' just for fun to useies fuck up his homework. How can attorneys even ask for this shit? An old roommate of mine from college, truly one of the best people I've ever known. A meat sack is fine as they come. She's worked as a public defender, has defended the worst of the worst, and she could absolutely do this. Has done this.

She truly believes that everyone, even the Joseph Duncan's of the world deserve a fair trial and a competent defense. Her and I are great fans this day, even though she knows very well that I would love to push a button and have most of the people she has worked on behalf of die horribly. Have her have in his bond set, Duncan convinced a Fargo businessman named Joe Crary to write a personal check and pay the 15 grand, which makes me think that Joe is also a fucking idiot or worse. When contacted by the press about this, people had a lot of questions like, you know, why

would you do that? Crary described as the former executive member of the Fargo Cascowney Economic Development Corps, said, we both enjoyed biking on the bike trails in Fargo and we had become acquaintances. In my contact with him, I saw him like many others apparently did. He was polite, soft-spoken, and seems sincere in turning his life around. Oh, oh, turn his life so you knew what he did. I was trying to help him get things straightened out, just like I have tried to help many others over the years.

Many other fucking molesters? Just to help him out on acquaintance, get the fuck out. I don't believe this bullshit for a second. I read this as, look, it's not easy, living in the closet in Farger, North Dakota. Do you know how hard it is to find a decent looking dude who's willing to suck your dick? He said that if I gave him the money,

he wouldn't tell my wife, okay? So yeah, I gave him some money. And that's not just me talking shit by the way. These two men apparently were alleged to have being involved in a romantic relationship. And again, why? He had to have known about Duncan's past, right? Why date that dude? No, Crary bailed Duncan out like a fucking idiot. Duncan now 42 years old

began preparing to live out his ultimate dark fantasy. He picked a number of tools up. This is so premeditated. Picked a number of tools up from a Minnesota Walmart and Best Buy, including Night Vision goggles, two video cameras, somehow got a hold of a shotgun from a Minnesota Walmart and Best Buy, including night vision goggles, two video cameras. Somehow got a hold of a shotgun, ammunition, and a claw hammer. He was pissed that it looked like he might go back to prison and he was ready to carry out some more very misguided revenge. He was going to go very big this time. He was going to go through with something he'd clearly been thinking a lot about for a long time

he had a shop on this ready. On April 15th, 2005, he rented a shop on this ready. On April 15th, 2005, he rented a red Jeep Grand Cherokee in St. Paul, Minnesota with no intention of returning it and he took off. The Jeep was reported to stolen nearly three weeks later on May 4th. By that time, Duncan was long gone. Police would later learn that after running the Jeep, Duncan drove south into Missouri, where on April 27th, he stole a set of license plates off of the car, placed them on the Jeep. After grabbing the new plates, he headed northwest, eventually making it to Interstate 90.

The runs over 3000 miles all the way from Boston, Massachusetts to Seattle, Washington, coast to coast. Duncan headed west and soon found himself in North Idaho, finding a terrible family he would absolutely destroy it to few miles from my house. Just a few miles from the Suck Dungeon. While he was in route to Idaho during the first week of May 2005, an arrest warrant was issued for him in Becker County, Minnesota, for failing to properly follow the conditions of his April 5th 2005 release and for missing a subsequent court date. About five weeks after his hearing in Minnesota, Duncan found himself in the beautiful tourist town,

home of the South Dungeon, Cortalaine Ida. Authorities really don't know why he stopped there, possibly just for gas and food, but whatever it was, it would lead to one of the worst crimes in Idaho history. And before going on to the next section of this tale, let me take a second to share some awesome deals with you. Take a little break from this darkness. If you're watching on YouTube, let me take a second to, to actually just kind of be quiet for a moment. All right, thanks for listening to those sponsors. When you take advantage of those deals,

you save money. Any other sponsors know the time stock is effective, which means they keep sponsoring us, which I like. So everyone wins, yay! Okay, now let's talk about where I live and where the family who were victimized by Duncan, the most also lived, I believe some still live in the area. Cordelaine, extremely scenic north Idaho Resort City, located in the Idaho Panhandle,

a little over 90 miles south of the Canadian border. Today, just over 50,000 people live in town, around 100,000 live in what could be, I guess, considered the metro area. For many, CDA is a paradise. Just don't ask anyone living here right now because lately it has been a gray frozen city. A slippery, miserable shit hole for the past week, but most of the time, paradise. CDA has four distinct seasons, tons of skiing, camping, hunting, boating, golf, large public beach downtown on Lake Cortalaine, a crazy amount of restaurants for a town in size, big town full of deer, pine trees, ATVs, drive a few miles out of town and it's

not hard to find elk, deer, moose, and so much more. So many rivers and lakes, mountains everywhere you look. It's a living postcard. It really is very, very pretty. You can go for a hike on Tubbs Hill, jump off some cliffs into the lake, grab a mountain bike, hit us from trails past for an an lake, grab a stake at Beverly's and the CDA resort and watch people head out on sailboats and stand up paddleboards below and water ski and the same day you can grab breakfast at Michael D's, get the paleo pancakes, grab lunch at the New Orleans inspired 10 over six congrats on the upcoming baby Craig and TJ.

We love you. You can get dinner at Roccos. If you want some kick ass local moco or some meatballs, try and beat my Pac-Man high score there. You can head to Sate Bistro for a Huckleberry Socketini, go to Tonys on the Lake for some fine Italian dining. Go on and on. Bardenets, gross donuts, of course, Hudson's burgers,

my favorite burgers on earth. It's fucking great. It's a great place to raise a family. Kids can ride their bikes all over. If they're psycho dads, feel like they can go out on their own and not be supervised at all times. They can build forts in the woods.

I have a huge tree fort in my backyard between two big ass pine trees. Kids play around all the time without parental supervision. At least, you know, many do and a whole lot more did before Joseph. Why can't you just be dead? Duncan got to town. Duncan found himself just a bit outside of this beautiful town. If you were to head east towards Montana on frontage road, where he saw eight year old Shasta Grooney and her nine year old brother Dylan playing in the front yard. And when he saw them, he decided right then and there

that they would become the doomed objects of his extremely dark twisted desires. Over the next few days, this sick fuck stalk these kids and their family, man. Another thing not to ignore, some grown up peeping on your kids or any other kids. Nothing wrong with approaching someone and just asking them what they're doing.

Maybe they think you're rude, maybe they get mad, who gives a shit? Fuck them if they get offended. Like worth it to play it safe. Don't want people asking what you're up to. Don't loiter around like a creep, right? You don't want people to interrogate you. Well, don't long and least stare at their kids.

Don't show up at the playground alone. Don't go to a chucky cheese alone. Don't offer to help little ones get out of the kitty pool. We're offering your boner. You all right? You're fucking crap. Now, but seriously, I mean, you know, mean mug strangers who stare too long at your kids.

I do it all the time. I did it just the other week of the grocery store. Turned around, stared some dude down at the checkout line who just looked at Monroe for what I felt was an uncomfortable period of time. He's giving me out. Might have been a nice dude. I look like a guy who gives a weak sweaty handshake, though.

Looks like a dude who smelled like a masturbation and fucking Tonka trucks to me. I might say Tonka trucks. I don't even know what just came out of my mouth. And then actually the other day, I thought I was gonna get a little bit of an interrogation and it didn't bother me. I actually thought of this research.

I took my row out to a little dad daughter date. We went out to a Mexican restaurant. We got some froyo, just the two of us. She wanted me to sit in the same side of the booth as her, which I think is adorable. She's 12. And then when I come in, just me looking like, I look and then this little girl,

some dude about, I don't know, 50, 60 years old, definitely would look at me like, what the fuck is going on, buddy? And he just kept staring at me. And he got up at one point. He turned out he was just using the bathroom. I thought he was going to come maybe give me like a real hard stare down, maybe even say something and I kind of wanted him to, right?

Because you know, we got to check in on each other from time to time. Keep people safe. All right, back to our dirt bag of the day now. Shasta and Dylan's home is one of the first houses you would see entering the air. We're Wolf, Lodge, Bay area, neighborhood. Heavilys secluded by pine trees, long dirt driveway that ran about 150 yards from the home to the road. Small white house with green trim, lower portion of which seemed to be coated with

stucco on one side. Witnesses later told the police that the groanie McKenzie home occasionally visited by strangers whose vehicles would break down on the freeway. Because their house is the first house. You know, anyone would see looking for help after getting off I 90 on the on to frontage road. So Joseph Duncan lurking around wouldn't have been that atypical. People said that the trusting family was always happy to help a stranger in need.

Shasta and her brother Dylan have been wearing their bathing suits outside the day, Joseph Saum. And it has been suggested that the side of the two young children playing in their swimsuits and swim trunks, you know, was what caught his attention and excited him. How fucked up. So strange to be attracted sexually to kids. I mean, I know I do believe that some people can't help it. What a curse.

Hope scientists can figure out how to truly rewire that part of the brain someday, hopefully, very soon. Choosing the groany McKenzie home, Duncan spent a few days surveying the family before making his move. So extra creepy, man. Just stalking him. The details around his stalking aren't entirely known. It's believed he followed them to town when they shopped and ran errands.

Sadly, he hasn't been in that cooperative since going to prison about sharing exactly what he did. We'll learn a little bit more about his family before we go forward. The family living in the home consisted of Brenda Groney, mother of Shaston, Dylan, as well as her 13 year old son, Slade. Brenda was divorced from the children's father, Steve Groney, who also lived in the area. I believe still lives in the area. Brenda also, at this point, in a relationship with her fiance, Mark McKenzie, who lived in the Wolf Bay area there at the

Wolf Bay home. Brenda Groney was 48. She married Steve Groney at Big Bear Lake, California, way back in 1986. Brenda had been 21 at the time. Steve was 29. They had five kids together before divorcing in 2001. and which time Brenda moved her family to the Wolf Lodge Bay area, where she lived with Mark McKenzie. Joseph Duncan made it to Idaho when he did her 18 year old son, Jesse, was spending time in jail for shoplifting, auto theft, a few other charges, our 21 year old son, Vance, also no longer living at home. The last time Jesse groaned, he talked to his mom, she had just taken in a stray

dog, found near their wolf lodge bay home because she couldn't stand to see it lonely, cold, and hungry. Jesse said his mom was like that with everyone. Just wanted to help people out. Her obituary says that she enjoyed writing poems, gardening, crafts, and needlework. She enjoyed making clothing for her family. She collected trinkets. Lindsay would call them due dads, spending time with her friends and family. Brenda had worked as a waitress in the area, once owned and operated a business called Made to Order, where she cleaned houses on a work for higher basis. When she had her house cleaning business, she dropped her children off the daycare and

typically work a long day. And then eventually she got tired of that business, she wanted to spend more time with her family. Those who knew her described her as a great mother, very family oriented. At the time of her death, she was on probation for possessing drug paraphernalia. She had served a little bit of jail time for her conviction. No one's perfect.

Her family was associated with the area's biker culture and were known to party maybe a little harder than most. She recently been ordered by the court to attend drug and alcohol counseling, but financial difficulties had prevented her from completing the programs. So sadly, before Duncan came along, the Groney family already had plenty of shit to deal with. Brenda's husband, Mark McKenzie, described as a, as a caring and hardworking man who reportedly

treated Brenda Groney's children as if they were his own. He take them out to local streams, catch crawdads and often took 13 year old slayed out into the woods, teach him how to track deer and elk. Ken Francis, a friend who had known Mark for more than 20 years, characterized him as someone who liked to hunt bear, cougar, deer and elk and who generally like to spend as much time outdoors as possible. Francis said he wasn't happy unless he was outside all the time. So very typical kind of guy for this area of Idaho.

A lot of people around here, more comfortable alone in the woods, are out hunting than they are in town or around other people. Mark also portrayed as a man who always got up and went to work at his job. He was a manager at Spokane Stainless Products, the position he had worked his way up to after being initially hired as a commercial sink installer. He'd usually start his day at 5 a.m. Normally, wouldn't get home until 5 p.m. or later. He worked the job for more than 15 years.

Barely missed today. He had no known criminal record. His brother Steve McKenzie said his job was pretty hard. His boss was pretty demanding. The idea of him being under the influence, being strung out, certainly would not have gone unnoticed. It was the only job I remember him having. Mark and Brenda were very good people.

The media has pounded on the rampant drug use out there. It wasn't true. Yeah, they drank beer and they smoked pot. So again, this kind of also speaks to perceptions of the family where, you know, before Duncan came along, you know, known to, known to party a little, a little harder than, than maybe the average person. Mark was also the kind of guy who had a gun in every room, also typical of this area, sadly, all those guns did not help him stop Joseph Duncan.

Slade Groney, 13-year-old brother of Shaston Dillon, described as an honor role student who had a talent for music. He's also fond of woodworking in school, and like a stepdad, he liked the outdoors. We'll learn more about Shast and Dylan in a moment. On Sunday, May 15, 2005, two days before I would be celebrating a birthday, just a half hours drive away and spoke handwashed in the Groney family drove into the city of Corde-Alene to run errands and then returned home where they hosted a barbecue and party to bit with some friends. They went to bed early that evening. Mark had to work the next morning and all the guests

went home. It was the last time Brenda Brenda Mark and Slade would be seen alive Duncan had been hiding nearby you know while they were having their get together waiting for the lights to go out waiting for everyone to leave Waiting for this family this family who had done nothing to him, you know The house to go quiet so he could get his revenge Duncan's final crime would be somewhat out of character for him previously He'd always only targeted children victims who couldn't defend themselves against his six foot two-inch adult. This time, he would take on two adults, surprised them while they were sleeping, but still this was new for him. Authorities were alerted that something

was not right at the groaning McKenzie home, the following afternoon, May 16th, a neighbor Robert Hollingsworth, Robert Hollingsworth went by the home around 6 p.m. to pay slade for Moana's grass the day before and noticed a number of things that seemed off. He said the house was early quiet, all the lights were off. The only thing he heard inside the house was a dog barking. Hollingsworth, honked his horn, nobody came outside as they normally would and someone pulled into the driveway.

When he got out of his car, Hollinsworth, walked toward the small covered porch, stopped suddenly when he saw dark red stains near the entrance. There was a significant amount of blood on the doorway and the steps. He then noticed that both vehicles were parked at the home and their car doors left open. Obviously something terrible had happened. Robert was especially worried since he'd already seen a strange white pickup at the house earlier that day, found it suspicious. He immediately called the police.

At 6.15 p.m., the Kootenny County Sheriff's Department, this batch deputies to check out the situation. Everything was just as Hollinsworth had reported. Very concerned, the deputies knocked on the door, didn't get a response. They yelled for the occupants to respond. Nothing. They walked around the house, peered in the windows, knocked on the windows, continued to call out. No one answered. The only thing they heard inside was the dog. Dog was the only source of movement inside the home, fearing that the occupants inside of an injured deputy decided to enter the home through an unlocked door on the east side of the building and what they found inside was a massacre. There was blood in literally every room of the house. Much of the blood was pulled around two bodies, sprawled on the floor. Both victims have been bound with

duct tape and zip ties and their injuries appear to be centered around their heads and faces. One of the victims was obviously an adolescent boy. It was young slayed, just 13 years old, lying face down in the pool of his own blood. It appeared at first that he had sustained a gunshot wound to his head, a great deal of duct tape had been wrapped around his head, and duct tape had also been used to bind his hands behind his back. Next to the boy with his mother Brenda, she was lying face down in the thick pool of her own blood in an area between the living room in the kitchen.

She too had a severe injury to her head and was bound at the hands and feet by duct tape and zip ties. As the deputies made their way to the home, they found a third victim, Mark. Like the victims in the kitchen, Mark McKenzie's hands and feet had been bound with duct tape and zip ties, and it appeared that he too had died

as a result of either a gunshot wound or severe blunt trauma to the head. The deputies confronted with the sights and smells of such a scene were reportedly nauseated. There are rumors that one officer actually quit the police force right after witnessing all this. I get it, man. So much. So dark. This wasn't what they'd signed up for. This kind of shit wasn't supposed to happen around court of lane. The officers conducted a sweep of the house to determine whether there were any more injured or deceased people in the other rooms. There were no more bodies,

but there was blood everywhere. There were bloody footprints, handprints, blood smears and droplets of blood splatter, patterns in various locations. They noted the presence of several firearms stored in various locations throughout the dwelling, none of which had been fired, none of the guns were lying in close proximity to any of the victims. Damn it. If only Mark or Brenda or Slade had gotten a hold of one of those weapons, the story could have had a much happier ending.

How great would that be? Right. If it was just convicted pedophile breaks into family's home and gets shot in the stomach, father waited a few hours to call the police, giving the dirt bag time to slowly and painfully die. Mother accidentally shoots and trutters in the groin several times with different guns. Detective Sergeant Brad Maskell, 16 year veteran on the Kootenny County Sheriff's Department, was off duty in relaxing at home when he received a call at 7.20 p.m. was told what the

deputies had found in the Groney McKenzie home. Lieutenant Neil Robertson and another officer, Lieutenant Kim Edmondson, instructed him to respond to the scene and initiate an investigation immediately. Maskell arrived at 8 p.m., finding Sergeant Lisa Carrington, deputy Kevin Smart, and a number of other deputies who briefed him on what they had found. Maskell looked around the house, taking detailed notes of what he saw, and what he was told by the deputies. Maskell and deputies sealed out the house, left the bodies as they had found them.

They closed off frontage road in the vicinity of the house, and designated it as a crime scene. Centuries were posted to stand guard throughout the night, mask-al as well as an additional homicide investigator would return at first light with the crime scene, with the crime scene technicians and a representative from the corner's office. We're treating this as an obvious homicide, Captain Ben Wolfinger told reporters who had been, uh, who had begun to show up shortly after the police activity began. Deputies kept them from getting any closer to the house and provided them with few details. Mark McKenzie's mother Lee McKenzie would be alerted to what had happened to her son and

his family when she was watching the news that night. A murder at Wolf Lodge flashed across the screen. Along with a shot of a small white home that her son lived in, she immediately became a spherical. She drove quickly over there to find the Cooney County Sheriff's Department, with a shot of a small white home that her son lived in, she immediately became a sterical. She drove quickly over there to find the Cooney County Sheriff's Department, had the road to her son's home blocked off. She approached one of the deputies saying there are five people in there. She said, no, ma'am, replied to deputy. There are only three.

There are five. She said again, three children and two adults, a few hours later, law enforcement officers arrived at her home to officially inform her that her son was one of the victims Early the next morning May 17th when I was waking up to happy birthday phone calls and thinking about in German chocolate cake I was probably going to eat Investigators along with crime lab personnel were returning to the frontage road Frontage road home to investigate their new nightmare Detective maskel and his partner, Detective Sergeant Daniel Matos,

were among the first to arrive. To arrive. Excuse me, man, after lengthy examinations of the crime scene, the three bodies were officially identified and taken to the morgue for autopsies. Because of the nature of the crime, law enforcement worked the investigation from two sides. One focused on the triple homicide,

the other focused on finding the two children, Dylan and Shasta. Law enforcement immediately began to search. There was a large, wooded area behind the home they'd hoped the kids had escaped to. The search teams included deputies, tracking dogs, helicopters, Idaho State police, even the CDA branch, the FBI. The community of CDA came out to help with scores of volunteers as well.

People searched on foot, on horseback and all terrain vehicles, others use their own search dogs, a large man hunt, a huge one, official and unofficial, right, went, we're underway. An amber alert was sent out nationwide with pictures describing Dylan is four feet tall, 60 pounds, blue eyes, blonde crewcut hair, shasta three feet, 10 inches tall, 40 pounds, hazel eyes, and long brown hair. Fucking so little, so young, Dylan just nine, Shasta just eight, so helpless, innocent, and then this motherfucker comes along and just shatters their childhood. And for what? To fulfill a sick sexual fantasy.

How are you feeling about the death penalty right now? Is it hard right now to be strongly against it, at least emotionally? Authorities also set up an emergency tip line that resulted in over 150 calls in the first 12 hours. Six trained people worked the phones, took information from concerned citizens, volunteers helped go through the tips to help determine the valuable leads, unfortunately most didn't lead anywhere. News of slayed groney's death found his way quickly to lakes middle school, where he was in seventh grade.

That's so close to the sucked engine. The vicious manor of his death as well as the death of his mother and her boyfriend listed as boyfriend listed as stepdad. I think in various sources, I believe based on everything I read, I will refer, I might be confusing referring to him as a boyfriend sometimes stepdad. I believe like not married officially, but you know, for all int boyfriend sometimes, stepdad, I believe like not married officially, but for all intents and purposes, stepdad, just to kind of clear up that little back and forth.

The school's principal, Chris Hammond's, made it a point to visit all of the classrooms, talk about the tragic events that transpired. Harmon or Hammond's told reporters many of the kids, new slayed, so they're grieving. Shasta and Dylan were students at for Nan Elementary School in Corde of Lane, where teachers and students were also horrified.

School personnel, including counselors, were available to any of the students who felt they needed to talk about what had happened. The case quickly became the largest criminal investigation in Kootenny County history. The FBI offered $100,000 in reward money for information leading to the safe return of the children, and the capture of the person or persons who abducted them. Three days after the murders on the evening of Thursday, May 19th, a useful tip does come

in. The owner of Round Heal Sports, a sporting goods store in Bonnars, Ferry, 75 miles north of CDA calls into the police. He tells deputies that a man with two children fitting shasta and Dylan subscriptions had come into the store asking for directions to a place called liby montana liby is just fifty miles east of bonnors fairy he said they'd left in a white van with washington state plates unfortunately by the time the idaho state police got the tip of the van the children are already left the area and that might not have been him unless he was had another car

he was stolen for a little while instead of the Jeep. Also in the 19th, the grieving father of the missing children Steve Groney gave a heartfelt but confusing plea in a press conference to release his children safely. He continued saying, this has nothing they had nothing to do with any of this, which forced the public to ask any of what, what was Steve caught up in, what did he drag his children into? The strange phrasing sadly took the investigation away from a place that could have helped lead to capturing Duncan much earlier, maybe in time to save his son, maybe not, but it sure

as shit didn't help. Investigators now were theorizing that local biker gangs may have had a hand in what they thought might have been a hit. Steve soon opened up his own tip line offered his $25,000 motorcycle up his reward for anyone who came forward with useful information. Meanwhile, the police also investigated another potential suspect. A person of interest had serviced in the case following interviews with relatives and friends. His name was Robert Roy Lutner, 33 years old at the time, known as Concrete Bob. Concrete

Bob got that nickname because of his work, you know, in concrete construction. I don't know what else you get that nickname from. He weirded if he was like, ah, it's, yeah, he runs ice cream shop. That's what we call him Concrete Bob. It's like, what? He had visited the family in recent days twice, right before the killings. Once on the Friday afternoon per se to the murders, and again, on Sunday evening, just perhaps only a few hours prior to the murders. Brandon's son, Jesse Groney, told detectives that concrete bob owed Brenda and mark $2,000, but he also said, I never saw him hostile toward my family at all.

Further investigation revealed that concrete bob had been in trouble with the law before, and in fact, had a lengthy criminal record in the county. He had been in trouble on drug possession charges in 1992, but arrested for domestic battery in 2004. After a fight with his girlfriend outside of bar, that charge had been reduced to disturbing the peace. He'd been convicted twice for fraud and connection with improperly representing unemployment claims for which he was currently on probation. Concrete Bob was someone the cops definitely wanted to talk to you. However, first they had to find the six foot three inch, 230 pound guy. That Tuesday, concrete Bob had talked to his probation officer

on the telephone to tell him he was gonna take a trip to Boise. He'd already heard about the murder, so he was devastated. When he learned he was a person of interest, he did return to court lane immediately. And then he was interviewed for hours by authorities. He agreed to take a polygraph test. He passed easily and detectives mask and matos were right back to wondering who in the

hell had taken two kids and brutally murdered three members of their family. They now have no primary suspects. The autopsy reports further complicated their investigation. It showed that none of the victims had been shot in their heads like it seemed to first. Instead, they had been repeatedly battered with a blunt object. Their deaths had been incredibly violent. That did not point to a biker gang hit. And then a toxicology report made everything more complicated.

Still, when the results showed that both Brenda and Mark had traces of meth in their system at the time of their death. Were their deaths drug-related? That's what the media was now wondering. It was all so confusing. Also, how many people have been involved in the murders? Investigators thought it might have been multiple of salons since they had been bound prior to the killings.

Also, since there was no force entry into the home, they thought the family may have known the killer or killers that maybe they had let them in. And also puzzled the detectives how, with all the firearms found inside the house, the perpetrator have been able to subdue the victims without a fight. They theorized that the killer or killers must have used the element of surprise and that they were well prepared.

They also thought that there must have been a firearm involved on the perpetrator's side. Investigators wondered how, you know, who of the family awakened first? They also wondered how much the two youngest children had seen before they were taken. Within days, popular true crime shows like a current affair, America's most wanted, and news channels like Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, and even court TV were producing reports about the case. Shastas and Dylan's faces were all over the news, both locally and nationally. Unfortunately, Joseph Duncan's face was not.

He is still not on anyone's radar on any level. On May 21st, America's most wanted ran a special on the case in a generated 19 new tips, but none of them were fruitful. The case is growing colder by the day, despite heavy media attention. On Sunday night, May 22nd, Pervaldo Rivera comes to Idaho. He tapes an episode of his show at large at the nearby Kootenny County Fairgrounds. Steve Groney appears on the show, which is broadcast live, and he tells Rivera's national audience that the FBI believed he had not been truthful with them.

According to Groney, the FBI polygraph examiner told him, Steve, I have to tell you, I have doubts. You haven't passed portions of this polygraph. Steve also said that he and Brendan had bickered about custody of their children on May 13th. He talked about having them, uh, about them having drug problems and his own drug problems were also brought up. Vance Groney, older brother of Slade, Shasta, Dylan and Jesse, told Rivera that he had moved out of the McKenzie home because of increased tension. In part, he said, over drug

usage in the past year. I knew there used to be recreational. Vance said it was pretty easy to tell when my mom is high and when she wasn't. Vance said that he believed his mother slayed and McKenzie were killed by people they knew. He said that the family dogs were not friendly to strangers and he would not be a lot and would not allow anyone they didn't recognize close to the house without barking. The dogs are even known to bark at the neighbors. It leads me to believe it was somebody who was welcomed into the home. He said and just random little side detail that will bother my brain and probably not yours.

But I mentioned dog singular early on. That's the way it was written in some of the articles looking at it overall. Dogs plural. They had dogs in the home, not just a dog. So all this leads to investigation further away from the possibility that it was a random act. You know, once again, all this talk of drug usage, somebody they knew, you know, this leads to investigators away from really looking into a stranger doing this. Yeah, so not helpful for the investigation.

Twisting the focus of the investigation further away from anything useful. Steve Groeney's brother and law Bob Price tells the court of lane press that Jesse Groeney had also been accused of withholding information during his polygraph examination. Saying Jesse informed Steve that he had failed to test over a question about knowing the whereabouts of Dylan and Shasta. The investigators were slamming their fingers on the table and claiming he didn't know, he didn't know, we learned this shortly after Jesse's test. Price told the report that he believed Steve Grooney was not involved in the killings of the abduction, saying we can only imagine the kind of grief he's going through. Steve Grooney believed that the tremendous publicity that the case received caused the

public to believe that he had something to do with the murders and the disappearance. Like his son, Steve thought that the victims had known their killer. Do I think it was one of their friends? He was asked and he said, yeah. However, he admitted that he did not know many of Brenda's or Mark's friends. Saying my involvement with Mark and Brenda was calling to get my kids and that was it. Otherwise, I really tried hard not to have contact with them. So how extra sad is all of this?

Well, all of this is happening. Dylan and Shasta are being tortured and sexually assaulted by a mad man in Montana. In court, lame, the investigation is making surviving members, you know, over the family wonder if one of them did it or if one of their friends did it. So many different people being tortured in so many different ways. A family being torn even further apart, also one sick fucking have his fun in the woods. On March, uh, May 24th, over a week after the murders and disappearances, 30 additional investigators

from the FBI join in the recovery efforts. The added manpower includes agents specializing in kidnapping cases, technicians to process the massive amount of evidence that had been collected thus far. A team of FBI profilers from Quantico, Virginia, began developing a psychological profile of the killer or killers based on everything that had been found at the crime scene and on the nature of the crimes themselves. So this raises the total number of the people working this case now to approximately 150. So he wasn't found quickly from lack of effort. Joining them are numerous volunteers who have been working on the case from the beginning.

On the 24th preliminary blood results come back from the FBI's forensic lab and investigators as well as family members are relieved to learn that none of the samples test to turn up any of Shasta or Dylan's DNA. Their blood had not at the very least been spilled in the home. All of the blood that have been tested up to that point belong to Brenda, Slade and Mark. The news provides new hope that the children are still alive somewhere, which they are at this point. Two days later, on Thursday, May 26, the effort to find clues relating to the triple murder and the abductions of Shasta and Dylan intensifies, move to the Kootenie County landfill. I've been there many times and feel a lot of garbage out of the back of my truck there. In 2005, investigators were looking through the garbage, looking for clues like murder weapons or bloody clothes, local law enforcement, law enforcement, as well as FBI evidence technicians would spend between five and 10 days, attempting to approximately 40 tons of garbage. On May 27, over 10 days after the murders and disappearances, campers began to arrive at the Wolf Lodge campground, located very

close to the Groney and McKenzie home Uh, this campground still in operation today. It was Memorial Day weekend. The temperature was unseasonably warm already getting into the 80s and the campground which features rustic cabins and a creek, caters to families. Many had shown up early Friday trying to get a head start in the holiday crowds. They knew of the crimes, but we're not afraid to come to the area because they reason the media spotlight on the senseless tragedy had likely made the killer or killers move on to another location. And I get that logic, but I think I would have canceled my plans.

It just seems a little weird to me. Zip up your tent tight tonight, kids. I forgot to tell you that a man and woman and her son were brutally murdered just to stone throw away just a couple weeks ago. Also, two kids rough a year age disappeared. So just right over there with that lightest and they still haven't found the killer, you know, or the kids crazy. Anyway, land turns out at 10.

I'll see you in the morning. I hope just fucking there's no way. There's no way I would win if they campground still. By the following afternoon, Kootenny County Sheriff Captain Ben Wolfinger holds another press conference in which he has asked campers and others enjoying the forest that weaken to keep an eye out for anything unusual, particularly anything that might turn out to be a potential clue. He asked tourists to look for Shasta and Dylan at highway rest stops as well as at restaurants and gas stations.

While the investigators from the various agencies continue their work, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children issues posters with photos of Shasta and Dylan as well as update information about them. They distribute 10,000 posters by faxing them to businesses, particularly hotels and restaurants throughout the Western U.S. and Western Canada with a high concentration, you know, in the area of the where I am now in the area of Northern Idaho and Western Montana. And these posters would lead directly to the capture of joseph dunkel so thank you national center for missing exploited children

whoever the hell started your organization thank you so much hail nemeron you beautiful kids saving bastards that same evening america's most wanted ran another segment of their show to the missing about the missing kids and hopes that it would result in leads to their whereabouts. Sadly, despite all this continual media coverage, as the investigation eclipses its third week, detectives, mask, and mattoes, still not any closer to learning the identity of the killer or the whereabouts of the children. Authorities who conducted more than 700 interviews at this point collected more than 1700 tips.

Law enforcement was almost certain that the crimes had been premeditated, but they had no primary suspect. It was a highly emotional crime scene of violent crime scene. Kootenay County Sheriff Rocky Watson told reporters, real violent crimes are usually driven by love, money, or drugs. This is what I would expect from a Colombian drug lord sending a message to a dealer, but these people didn't have big drug or money issues. On June 1st, right, 2005, federal warrant is issued for Duncan's arrest for him not shown up at his trial, but because no one has connected him to the Idaho murderers and abductions, no investigative priority is assigned to finding him. June 19th, Father's Day. It's been over a month since the murder,

over a month since a nine year old boy and an eight year old girl disappeared from the crime scene. Their father, Steve Grooney, is of course devastated. He tells reporters in court of lane, I was pretty confident the first couple of weeks that we were going to find these kids and that they were going to be okay. Then the next couple of weeks, every day that they weren't found,

they kind of hit that there's the possibility that they may never be found. Pretty much all I do is sit and wait for that phone call. Mother fucker. That would, oh, just be a living hell. Groney had taken a leave of absence from his job so he could try and make some sense of what had occurred and he wasn't emotionally equipped

to be at work at this time understandably. Little over a week later, Shaston, Dylan's older brother Jesse, just 18 years old, has his own sentencing hearing, which results as part of a plea agreement, he had entered into on charges of burglary and grand theft. He had previously told police officers and post-falls that he'd been under the influence of marijuana and met them fedamined five days before his arrest for four or five days. While in carst rate, he'd also been charged with kicking a jail door, damaging the lock mechanism, as part of his agreement in which he agreed to plead guilty to the burglary and to damaging the

jail door, the grand theft charge was dismissed. During his sentencing hearing, he told the judge that he wanted to go straight after what had happened to his family. In part, because of the fact that he believed at the time that drugs might have been involved. I don't know if I'm right for sure, Jesse told the judge, but I think it might have had something to do with drugs. I found out in the worst way how drugs can ruin someone's life. Please let me prove to my family myself that I've learned from this experience. Noting that Jesse has these letters, NFP tattooed on the back of his neck, the judge asks them what those letters mean, whether he had been to a tattoo parlor while out in jail

on a furlough to attend his family members, funeral services. And he told the judge, that was on my neck when I went to jail. He explained that the letters stood for North Francis Pimps, a group of which he was a member. A lot of people think it's a gang, but really it's not. He told the judge it's a group of friends who are there for each other. It's nothing near a gang. He explained that the North Francis Pimps do not wear gang colors nor engage in any gang

activity. Could they have been somehow involved in the killings? No. But people naturally wanted to, you know, connect this and the judge indicated that he would be looking into the matter further. So investigators, you know, it's frustrating to have no idea what happened. Their desperate for answers are looking into everything except for Joseph Duncan, but they couldn't.

They couldn't know that it was Joseph. Jesse was sentenced to two years in the state penitentiary with options for a lesser sentence with the completion of a rehab program. As the weeks go by, turning to months, hope is slipping away that these two kids are ever going to be found. Media coverage has started to die down. National news outlets, true crime shows have now moved on to other stories. But then after 48 days,

something very unexpected happens. Very rare for kids to go missing for this long and any good news to come. On July 2nd at 1.30 in the morning, the same red Jeep Cherokee, the Duncan had rented in St. Paul, Minnesota, the one he'd stolen plates for in Missouri, rolls into the parking lot of the denys here in Cordelay night out Just about the only place you can eat in Cordelay and late at night. I may or may not have had pancakes there late at night with Lenziana on a few occasions This night a middle-aged man a little girl matching Shasta's description walking to the restaurant together as they enter They passed by two young men Nick Chapman 21 and 21, and Chris Dolan, 18, who were standing outside smoke and cigarettes.

Both would recall later that there was something strange about the man, but they just didn't know what it was, whether it was just his demeanor, something about the way he looked. Chapman glanced at the man and the girl as they walked past and then did a double take. In a near state of shock, he briefly made eye contact with a little girl and he knew who she was. He recognized her as Shasta Groney. He had no doubt he would later tell the police that this was Shasta. He had seen a billboard with a photo of her and her brother Dylan earlier that evening.

Where was Dylan? Chapman wondered. There was no sign of him yet he knew from all the publicity that the case had received that Dylan was missing as well and should have been with the sister. As the man and the girl entered the restaurant, they walked right past a photo of Shasta in the foyer. Thank you once again, National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. The man glanced around to make sure that no one was looking at him, momentfully, that photo disappeared. A waitress had grabbed it. She wanted to make sure and hide it before Joseph Duncan saw it. After being seated, the man placed a food and drink order for

himself and for Shasta. Chapman made sure that he wrote down the jeeps license plate number and convinced himself he would not allow this man to leave the restaurant with her. At the same time, Donlin alerted his girlfriend, Tessa Sith, 17, who was inside with Chapman's girlfriend, Rayla Rhodes, 20, by sending her a text message on his cell phone. He told her what he had just seen, riding Teddy Bear. That little girl looks like the Shasta girl. This was sent at 142 AM. Shasta and the man were sitting near the rear of the restaurant, about six booths away

from Rela and Tessa. I think I've said a booth next to that at one point. After he was certain that Tessa understood the message, Donland and Chapman alerted Denny's employees about what they had seen as well. A waitress, Amber Dean, 25 25 years old had already recognized Shasta by the time Donlin and Chapman talked to her. She told her shift manager and the manager called 911 at 151 AM. Four minutes later Chapman also calls 911 and reports what he and Donlin witnessed. Nervous that they might do something to alert the man with Shasta, Chapman

and Donlin tried to remain calm as they re-entered the restaurant and take their seats at the booth with their girlfriends. The restaurant was pretty much empty, waitress Amber Dean would later tell the police it was the calm before the storm. After briefly discussing how to handle a situation with her manager, Dean went over to the table to try and give Shasta some crayons. Dean said Shasta was closed off, not a normal child. When you put crayons and masks in front of them, they usually light up.

She just said, thank you and looked at the man. Approximately 10 minutes later, three police cars, one at a time, slowly and quietly, pull into the restaurant's parking lot with their lights turned off. When the first police car arrives, Duncan motions for the waitress to bring him his bill. Then he got up, took the little girl with him and headed towards the bathrooms.

Watching him nervously, restaurant personnel reason that he must have seen the car through the windows when it turned into the parking lot. Perhaps Duncan was trying to slip out before officers noticed him. Nope, luckily just a coincidence. He either hadn't seen the police or wasn't worried about them identifying him. When he and Shasta returned from the restroom, several officers were inside of Denny's already and approached him. Before the cops could escort him outside, Duncan leaned over the table and said something

to Shasta, Shasta would later say that he asked her to promise to visit him in prison. This fucking piece of shit. Like I wonder if in his ruined mind, he actually thought she might visit him. Just swing by for old time's sake. Reminisce, about the one time he smashed her mother's head in. High sweetie, Amber Dean said to Shasta while the police is shorted Duncan outside, Ray scored at him.

What's your name, honey? Shasta Growny replied to little girl who then started crying. Dean picked Shasta up, held her in her arms, hugged her, trying to comfort her as best she could. Shasta repeated to one of the officers and responds to his questions that her name was Shasta Groney. I want my daddy, she cried, I want to go home.

Phew. The as-yet unidentified man complied with the police officer's request as he instructed him to get into one of their patrol cars. He was taken to the local jail. Shasta, who appeared to be in good physical health, police officers request as he instructed him to get into one of their patrol cars, he was taken to the local jail. Shasta, who appeared to be in good physical health, taken to a nearby hospital for examination and observation, where she remained for the next couple of days.

She was kept under close, police supervision, until she reunited with her father, who was in Seattle, visiting his sister. This just makes me happy, Chapman, one of the dudes who was smoking out front of Denny's later told reporters about being part of Shasta's rescue. He said, it's the most amazing, unreal euphoric thing that could happen. And then his friend, Donnell and the other guy at front

said, it's like cramming all of the holidays together into one man, fucking good job dudes. I don't know if you're still in town. Man, you should feel good. You did the right thing. You helped save an innocent girl from continuing to live in a fucking hell on earth. When Steve Groene returned to CDA,

he described the reunion with his daughter, saying, when I walked in the door, her face just lit up and she put her arms out and said, Daddy, Daddy, it was one of the better moments of my life. She looks real good. She's very upbeat. She seems to be in pretty good spirits.

She acts just like the little girl I saw weeks before she disappeared. Cannot imagine what he felt in that moment. Meanwhile, of course, everyone is wondering what happened to Dylan. We do still have very high hopes. Steve Grooney said in response to a questions about this. I would not give up hope until I have absolute proof. He says in response to, you know, people having their doubts

about Dylan being found alive now. By the next day, July 3rd, 2005, the man arrested at Denny's has been identified as Joseph Edward Duncan III and charge initially with two counts of first degree kidnapping. It's a relief to find her said Sheriff Rocky Watson. We've had so many false sightings. There's been a lot of disbelief on my part. I wasn't comfortable until I saw her at the hospital myself. She asked to was interviewed by detectives,

masculine, maddles. While she was still a patient at Coutney Medical Center in Cordelaine, they didn't question her about the events that happened at their home. They decided to focus instead on what had happened to Dylan. Dylan at this point, still officially a missing person. The immediately work to obtain a search warrant for the Red Jeep Cherokee,

while the investigation continues in Northern Idaho, officers in Fargo, North Dakota are posted outside of Duncan's apartment. They're there to guard it while investigators await the approval of a warrant to search his dwelling. Now that Duncan is in custody, police slowly began to learn of his incredibly wicked past, including his serial rapes and sexual offenses. Duncan in the meantime invokes his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination, like an unrepentant fuckface and initially refuses to speak to the detectives because he is

the devil and allergic to doing anything good. But then thanks to young Shastas brave testimony, some videotapes, please got a hold of as well. And Duncan's later very limited cooperation, police were able to piece together what had happened between the time she was taken and the time she was found and it is really really bad Like this next section is why I warned you earlier to maybe sit this one out man. This one has gotten to me more than a lot of these Detectives learned the Dunkin broken to the Groney McKenzie home in the middle of the night and the early hours of May 16th 2005 he'd taken his time He'd used those night vision goggles. He'd

bought a Walmart when he put his plan into motion to peer into their windows. It's familiar with the floor plan. Shasta and Dylan had been asleep in their bedrooms when he'd entered. Shasta's mother had called out to her from the living room, waking her up, then called her into the living room where she saw Duncan waiting there. Shasta also saw her brother slayed, her mother, Mark McCann's, each of them had already been bound with duct tape and zip ties had not appeared to be too injured at this time. Duncan at one point tied or at this point ties up Shasta and Dylan at well as well carries them outside where he places them inside a white pickup truck. Right. That one had been seen by the neighbor earlier, it'd been parked on the property.

He then returns into the house to kill their family. She asked the reports that she could see into the home, although not well, and that she heard the sounds of her family dying. She heard her mother attempt to cry out before the thudding sound of a hammer, muted her, also heard stepfather mark McKenzie cry out in pain before he was also beaten silent mother fucker. Can you imagine hearing that at any age, let alone eight years old. Man, God damn, continual counseling, I think would just hopefully, you know, keep, keep the old wounds are never going to heal from just bleeding all the time. Duncan had originally entered the home through the unlocked backdoor arm with the shotgun, catching the heavily armed family completely off guard.

I'm sure, you know, he, he never would say what he did there. I imagine he told him that everything would be okay if they just let him tie him up. He was maybe there to steal something. I mean, I strongly feel like he manipulated them and to let him tie them up, the family's dogs did come up to him. He managed to scare them away. Shasta said Duncan was wearing those, wearing dark gloves that night. He crushed each of the family's members heads in with a claw hammer.

The sheer amount of hits the head confused law enforcement because it was so fucking brutal for a stranger to do that to somebody. It seemed like a crime of passion. Like it was done to them by somebody who hated them. Duncan didn't hate them. He hated what they represented. He hated the world. Why only he really knows and he doesn't seem interested in really letting us know that.

He just wanted to inflict a lot of pain on the world around him. There was evidence that 13 year old Slade had tried to get up and run away based on blood stains. He'd stumbled through the house. His blood was almost in every room. Even on the family's picnic table outside, he must have been utterly terrified and confused. What the fuck was happening?

Why was this angry man in the house? Who was he? Why was he doing any of this? Not known of Duncan toyed with slayed or if slayed actually had a chance at escaping. Duncan again, never super helpful and put all the pieces together. Regarding the white truck, the neighbor Robert Hollingsworth had seen hanging on the property early in the morning after the murders. Duncan had stolen it and used it to drive Shasta and Dylan to remote location where the

red Jeep Cherokee had been parked and hidden. And then he switched vehicles and then drove them to Montana. And he planned all of this out so thoroughly, put a lot of thought into this. This wasn't a fantasy that was, you know, new. He'd been doing all this stuff for a long time, which makes it that much more disgusting. But fantasizing about destroying a family, about raping and torturing their children for God knows how long, how many hours did he spend thinking about all of this, getting excited, how many days, weeks, months, or years, eventually Duncan found an

unused campsite near St. Regis and Lolo Forest miles away from an echo of another human being. There was an old cabin, long abandoned that offered Duncan a little bit of shelter and a little bit of privacy to carry out his dark desires. Once there, Shasta and Dylan experienced what can only be described as hell on earth for six weeks Duncan repeatedly raped and sexually abused both of them for six fucking weeks. When Shasta was found in initially interviewed, she was asked where Dylan was and she carefully responded in heaven. Thanks to Shasta's accounts, also the investigators able to find the campsites in Montana where Duncan kept them ultimately. This led to the discovery of Dylan's remains. And fuck Duncan for not helping detectives, you know, at least just give the family closure. At the campsite, Duncan was Shasta and Dylan's God and he was a cruel, cruel God.

He would not only harm the children physically, but he would also place sadistic mind games with them. He took pleasure in telling Shasta and Dylan in great detail about how much he enjoyed killing their family. A little Shasta remembers him saying, see this hammer. I murdered your mom, stepped out and brother with it. You'll never see them again. He told Shasta how he had watched her family for two or three days. He'd become interested in the family. I've seen her playing the yard while wearing a bathing suit, like trying to make her think this was her fault. He also told him that during his murderous rampage, he had made sure to rape her brother slayed. According to Shasta, Duncan took his rage out primarily on Dylan.

Besides sexual attacks on the young boy, he would also burn him and beat him up. Week after week, Duncan not only raped both the kids repeatedly, he also forced them to engage in sexual acts with each other, physically torture Dylan extensively. Here's what a typical day in Duncan's camp would look like. Duncan savagely whipped Dylan with the belt after making Shasta wait outside while he took Dylan inside the barn and brutally raped him. After that, he told Dylan to stand on a bench, hung a wire around his neck, pulled it so tight, Dylan couldn't breathe, then masturbated as he watched Dylan nearly die from being

hanged. Dylan went unconscious, then jet, a nickname Joseph insisted the kids call him like their fucking buddies, took Dylan down and then yelled at him until he regained consciousness and Duncan recorded all of this on video. After Dylan came to Duncan offered him the opportunity to watch his death by hanging on tape. After that, Duncan forced Shasta to drag her brother through the campfire with the rope around his neck, burning him horribly.

Videos of these horrors were found by law enforcement. They would later be washed in court by a jury. The images and sounds so horrific that reportedly turned one anti-death penalty juror into very pro-death penalty juror. I fucking get it. How often do these jurors fantasize about jumping out of the jury box, seeing this guy who's in the room with them and just breaking his fucking neck? Hases like this make me long for the days of the Wild West.

When this dude would have not even made it to his own hanging, a lynch mob would have fucked him up. Also rumored that a large portion of the jurors, some sources actually say 10 out of 12 elected to receive long-term counseling due to what they watched on the tapes. And one of the videos Duncan says, the devil is here, boy, the devil himself. The demon couldn't do with the devil sent him to do so, the devil came himself and the devil likes to watch children suffer and cry. Fuck, he's so evil.

Duncan even cracks sick jokes throughout the videos, saying stuff like, they kidnapped me. They wouldn't let me leave! In another video, Dunkin' cracks, I shouldn't be taking pictures of you pulling up your pants like that, young man. People might think I'm a pervert. I swear to God, I would love to kill him myself. Fuck. Whew, another video.

Dunkin' asks the kids about their wishes. Dylan says he wants to go home. Man, the stuff is fucking brutal. Sometimes to keep somewhat calm, Dunkin' would tell them he was gonna take them home to their dad. All part of his mind games, he'd have to kids write letters to their dad. One of Shasta's letters read, dear dad, I miss you very much. Me and Dylan know what happened to mom, Mark and Slade. We both feel very sorry for them.

We both miss you, Jesse and Vance. We might see you guys again. We might see you guys again. She knew even as a small child, even while Duncan is letting her ride a letter to her dad, the Duncan is a fucking killer, right, that he might kill her. This is how I read that.

This letter, of course, is never sent. A few days after that, particular letter is written, Joseph Duncan kills Dylan. He fires him or excuse me, he first shoots him with a shotgun on the chest at close range in an accident when he was rummaging through a box to grab a beer. The gun was loaded. Of course, no safe.

He didn't give a shit. Went off, shoots Dylan. Shasta here is the blast, comes running over. Dylan is still alive. He's wounded but still alive. Take him to a doctor. He'll live. Shasta now listens to her brother plead for Joseph to let him live. Right. Duncan then puts the barrel to the side of Dylan's head, fires again. The chamber's empty. Now while Dylan continues to beg for his life, Duncan reloads, puts the gun to Dylan's head again

and blows his fucking head off. Shasta remembersing, you know, crying after doing this, claiming it was all an accident. He said the second shot was just so Dylan didn't have to feel pain. Like he was a good dude doing this porquet of favor. Favor, man, Shastor goes numb with shock. She said she remembers not being able to speak out loud for an entire week after that. There are rumors that after Dylan was dead, Duncan chopped his body into little pieces

and filmed himself forcing Shastor to throw the body parts into the fire. Then he allegedly forced Shasta to pick the body parts out of the fire and he filmed that too. A lot of rumors about what was filmed will never know exactly what the jury saw. The footage never going to be released to the public. Thank God. Some of what was witnessed was leaked to the press by various sources. The stuff I already mentioned, but for the most part, a lot of that will remain a mystery

hopefully forever. The last thing Shasta needs is to have that footage out there. After Dylan was murdered, Duncan started to taunt Shasta with the possibility of murder. She remembered him saying, how do you want to die? You can be strangled or you can choose to be shot like your brother. That one's going to be quicker. You won't feel pain. She chose strangulation. She felt that if she chose strangulation,

she might have a chance to talk him out of what he was doing and then Duncan did choke her. Later on the ground, put a rope around her neck, pulled it super tight. She remembers everything, going kind of white, she would say black and white, just couldn't really see anything anymore, but I worked up enough breath to say,

please don't jet. Little Shasta, her survival instinct so strong, she noticed that when she used this preferred nickname, it would soften him up a bit. In this example, it saved your life. She remembers he started crying and said, what did you say? I can't do this.

After four, like he has some conscious, oh my God, I still fucking hate him so much. After four weeks of abuse, forcing her to watch her brother be murdered, after murder, much of her family, he then offers to take Shasta to meet his mom because he's a fucking lunatic. Shasta, not a position to disagree, of course, agrees. And then two weeks later, they're going to be driving through Cordelayne on the way to meet his mom. Like, what? What was he going to say if he would have made it there? Hey, mom, this is

my friend Shasta. If she seems a little skittish or solenoid because I've been torching her for weeks because I killed her family in front of her. Like, what the fuck? Some people are just broken. He's such a broken human being. Past any fucking chance of repair. Shasta would tell investigators that Jet drove her old byroads, old school, which means he passed right by the suck dungeon. Probably literally drove right past the window here. He's in the creeps. Right, man, just, isn't that a weird thing to think about by the way? Think about how many people you have watched as drive by in your life. Think about so many people you've seen in traffic.

How many people you've walked by in the grocery store in the aisle. How many people you said, excuse me to? People you've held the door open for, you know, with the movie theater, at the mall, wherever. And just just based on sheer numbers, how, like, you ever think about like, man, one of those people had to have been a ju- Joseph Duncan type person, right? One of those people, a rapist, a pedophile, a murderer, maybe even Joseph Duncan himself. He's been creeps. Duncan also drove for a little chast the pastor best friend's house, drove past the billboard

with her and her brother's pictures on it. They would be caught on video to local gas station. I've seen stills from that and it's fucking heartbreaking. She looks so broken, so sad, of course. Then after the gas station, they make that stop in Denny's finally Duncan spree of terror is over, at least for anyone who's not a fellow inmate serving time with this piece of shit. If you are, gotta hope in your fucking raping him or just fucking in, I hope he's getting so badly abused in prison. I don't care. I don't, and you know,

I know, I know you guys don't agree with me a lot of this stuff and it's fine, but that's my real feelings. Now that we've reconnected, you know, Duncan's worst campy trip ever back to the timeline. Let's go forward. Originally, Duncan charged with two counts of first degree kidnapping and Idaho kidnaps can get you a death sentence. Just kidnapping is alone or life in prison. Then with ample evidence linking him to the groany and Mackenzie murders. Of course, he's also charged with three counts of first degree murder. Can also give you either life in prison or a death sentence.

Idaho charged with Dylan's murder, another possible death penalty crime. After all these charges, which were a mixture of state and federal charges, and there's multiple states involved now because of Montana being brought into it and Duncan can now, uh, he now chooses to wave his right to appeal with the death census. So thank God, at least at that July 10th, 2005, Captain, Captain Ben Wolfinger holds a brief news conference in which he sadly announces that the remains found in the bitter root mountains west of St. Regis are in fact Dilla Dillon groanie July 16th more than 700 people file into a court lane church to remember Dylan in a memorial service on what would have been his

10th birthday Dylan was described by friends and relatives as a kid who loved to play video games go motorcycle riding to his dad at one point during the funeral a video depicts depicting Dylan's life is played for the mourners. It consists of photographs that have been taken at various stages of his life, newborn, kindergarten or wearing a Santa Claus hat, with his dad sitting on a Harley, one with Dylan Shasta and she's slayed sitting on the tailgate of a pickup during a family outing. A lot of local law enforcement officers attend as did many teachers from Fernand Elementary School, which Dylan and Shasta had been in it since kindergarten. The school's principal attended Tim Marks, Dylan's third grade teacher during the prior school

year says, these kids become one of yours. You're losing somebody who's close to you. It was an incredibly emotional event. A lot of sobs. You know, it was a community coming together to heal after so much travenry dealt by the hands of one fucking dude. Pastor Jim Putman, in an obvious reference to Duncan, says, God takes care of evil, and I can trust him to do it.

When he punishes, he does it far better than I could ever do. I feel like that was Pastor Putman's nice way of saying, I hope that motherfucker was torn apart for eternity. Months after all this happens, at March 29's 2006, Shasta returns to the house where her family had been murdered. She was there to help celebrate what would have been her brother Slade's 14th birthday. During an interview with Spokane TV station, Crem, she says, I'm happy to be here. Happy to be doing this.

Slade's my brother and I want to do this for him. Jesus Christ. Eight, maybe nine now saying this, so much, so much, so much sure. She had to live fucking so much life known. She'd have to live by this age. She also said she'd written a note to slay to wonder her mother, another Dylan and one to mark. Happy birthday, Shasta said, tell mom and Dylan and mark. I love them. Hopefully we'll get to see them again. January 18, 2007, Duncan and died by a cordal lane federal grand jury on 10 counts of kidnapping, kidnapping,

kidnapping, resulting in death, aggravated sexual abuse of a minor, sexual exploitation of a child, resulting in death as well as other crimes related to illegal firearm possession and grand theft auto, as well as three first degree murders. Trial date is pushed to January 22, 2008, when the defense attorney's request a postponement. He will plead guilty to all charges. The same day, Riverside County officials in California announced that Duncan was also charged with the murder of Anthony Martinez, who we mentioned earlier. Investigators made a positive DNA match to a partial thumbprint discovered on duct tape found in their Anthony's body. January 24th, 2008, Duncan confesses to the murders of the two other children in Washington state.

We talked about Carmen Cubias, Simeha White, August 14, 2008. Duncan dismisses his attorneys, represents himself. An evaluation is done to determine his competency, and he is found competent, stand trial, and represent himself. August 27, the jury recommends the death penalty. After a few hours of deliberation and then the judge sentences dunk into three death sentences for kidnapping, sexual exploitation, use of the firearm, all of those crimes, assaults, and in death, all charges referring to Dylan's murder.

On November 3rd, he was sentenced to an additional three consecutive life sentences for abducting Sakshasta for sexual abusing her and Dylan, obviously, there were other crimes he committed. Why wasn't he charged with everything? Essentially, it was overkill. There were federal charges, Washington charges, Idaho, California, Montana, all these different charges, you know, serious enough to put him away in prison for life or put him on death row.

Federal and, you know, the multiple state prosecutors agreed there was no need to keep this guy in court year after year, waste more tax dollars at the end result was going to be the same to have done can on federal death row and that was the end result they ended up on uh... federal death row that's where he sits to get today uh... on death row in a federal penitentiary in tear out indiana seventy miles west of indianapolis working on his fucking blog more on that in just a second right now let's get out of today's brutal time suck timeline.

Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely. One more quick sponsor. I do apologize for apologizing. I started more than usual this, uh, the suck. I say time suck is brought to you by Bell Gunness's new Norwegian death massage exclusively for completing total pieces of shit. It's a very special final massage that you can give to a dirt bag of your choosing. First you pay serial killer Bell Gunness $10,000 from cash. Second you sign a waiver making it clear you understand that she will kill you if you

tell me one, uh, you know one about what you're up to. Also explaining why what the person getting a massage is deserving of this massage. Third, deliver your massage recipient who must be dropped off, tied up and gagged. Fourth, Bell will then massage them to death with the help of guest death masseuse, Albert Fish. I'm trying to figure out how to give this wonderful gift to Joseph Duncan right now. What a great gift for him to be manhandled by both Bell and Albert. Think about all the soothing sounds he could hear in his painful final minutes. Just hangy banger. Uff, da, uff, da.

At first things are sexual with Bella Rebun in the tugging on his man tackle, needing a push and a poke in the squeeze and then fish comes in and just covers his face with pipe and hot peanut butter. Show bitch. That's how we do it in Hollywood. Right? Then Albert starts to whittling on his peeweas. Starts to punish him. It's not a little monkey. And it all ends with fish and bell feeding some Duncan to some hawks. Yay. So sign up today the right way to put a piece of shit away. Sadly, that is not one of today's sponsors. I just needed to get that out of my system. I needed to express that

To get you know back into a little bit of a mental state where I feel like I can just keep talking about this No, Duncan lives sadly after all this he lives Dylan slayed Brenda mark their dead and see Martinez He's dead Carmen and Sam Samayho their dead so many others raped possibly more dead Joseph writes this day about how life isn't fair in prison, how society isn't fair to pedophiles. His most recent blog post was about what he got to eat for Thanksgiving dinner. Now how are you feeling about the death penalty, emotionally at least? We're going to talk about, today's, you know, Duncan's shitty blog at the end of today's

suck. First, let's talk a bit more about the mess he made. What is Shasta dealing with? A lot, not surprisingly. According to the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, victims of violence or sexual abuse, such as Shasta, sometimes they'll post traumatic stress disorder, a condition that can consist of nightmares

of their experiences, worrying about death, difficulty concentrating and sleeping, In addition to emotional symptoms, some victims of PTSD also develop physical symptoms or ailments, which remind them of their terrible experience. I have to imagine she is dealing with some level of PTSD. She's now 22, possibly 23, clearly struggling to live with the horrors inflicted upon her in her childhood. She has fear God tattooed above her left eye, midnight tattooed above her right eye. Pretty intense, you know, statement tattoos. Has three children, has moved away from the North Idaho area to the Boise area. I think there's rumors I've heard that she might be back in town,

hasn't spoken to Duncan since his arrest. When she was 21, she said she wanted federal prosecutors to allow her to visit him in prison. She wanted to look him in the eye and say, or she says, regarding this, I want him to hear from me that he is nothing. He took everything from me as a child, tried to put me in a position that I didn't even love myself.

This poor girl, I don't understand why they won't allow her to visit him in that situation. I guess maybe he wouldn't agree to it, but I don't even think he should have that right to say that he doesn't want to see or fuck that She talked in 2018 about how she began to write a book about her experiences She hasn't to my knowledge finished that book yet if she does I hope it makes her a fucking ton of money and I hope it's extremely cathartic She she has struggles. She spent a year in a juvenile detention center when she was a teen from drug-related charges

Been arrested several times as an adult for drug-related charges. She's been open about her struggles with drug abuse and addiction. Her dad, Steve, died this past December 9th at the age of 62 after a long battle with throat cancer. The previous year, Steve had lost a legal battle with the trust set up for Shasta. Community members here in Cordelaine had built a home for Shasta in Cordelaine in 2005.

And her father, Steve, had started living there in 2007 when she was 10. Then Shasta moved to Boise. Her dad stayed in the house in CDA until the trust board actually sent him an eviction notice saying the house was for Shasta not for him. Poor girl. Man, Steve had been living there for free. He felt the house was for Shasta and him. A judge disagreed said the house was only for Shasta. The house is now to be rented or sold to give Shasta money or she can live there full ownership. We'll transfer to her and she can do with it whatever she wants, which she turned to 25. And man, she poor Shasta. Again, her dad must have been, or, you know, hopefully was a great dad in some ways,

hopefully many ways, also seems to have kind of mouched off of a donation that was meant for her, not him, which is now a bummer. You know, he'd lost two children to Duncan. He can't imagine how that would feel, but he also didn't go through what Shasta went through. Didn't have to deal with what she had to deal with that summer. Hopefully she's not dealing with anything new now. Real estate prices are going up here in the CDA. I hope she makes a fucking ton of money on that house. I hope somebody buys it for way above market value.

Or that she maybe lives there and becomes a great mom. I hope so. Life certainly isn't fair. It's much more unfair to Shasta than it will be to most ever if anyone deserves to smooth the ride from hearing out. I think it's her. Something positive did come from all of this

due to the media exposure around the case. A lot of people thought a lot more about what society should do with pedophiles. We haven't solved this problem. It's good to keep talking about it. Shaston, her family started a petition to basically net, never let a person out of prison after one pedophilia offense, depending on the type of offense. It has over 50,000, or it had over 50,000 signies before it ended. It was posted on change.org titled No More Second

Chances. Here's what Shaston wrote about it. She said, my name is Shasta Groney. I'm 19 years old. I am seeking out a way for not only my voice to be heard, but other victims. When I was eight, my mother, stepfather, and 13-year-old brother Slade were murdered. My brother Dylan and I were kidnapped from our homes by a level three sex offender named Joseph Edward Duncan III. He was charged many times before my situation and was let out again and again. I would like this petition to change that. One strike for a violent sex offender should be enough. Never let them back on the streets to reoffend. I understand there are some cases where people have to register as a sex offender when it

isn't exactly fair. Those people are not included. This is for offenders who take other people's decision to choose. This isn't a disease. It's a sick twisted person who cannot be helped or fixed. The system failed me and my family and I'm going to do whatever it takes to put an end to the psychos running out on the streets. Yeah, man. Are more pedophiles being locked up away right now than they were before? No, but maybe all of this will help move us in that direction, right? Offenders like Duncan,

right? They can get out after their first, second, sometimes third, fourth, fifth, offenses. Currently, 22 states do not have a three strikes in your outlaw for violent felons. The average prison sentence right now for rape is 11 years. Some convicted rapists have gotten as little as six months in jail for a violent rape, right? Where they're found guilty. On average, sex offenders in general get eight year prison sentences, but that's not how

long they serve. Generally, they serve three and a half years. And within three years following the release, more than one in 20 sex offenders are charged with another sex crime or another sex crime, another sexual offense. How many are getting away with new sex crimes? We need to keep talking about this. Not enough is being done. We need more focus talking about this, not enough is being done. We need more

focus on victim prevention, you know, we need, we need more focus on sex offender offender rehabilitation. Um, and in some cases, the best way to rehabilitate a violent rapist is just to fucking never let him out of prison, ever, or given the death penalty. I mean, if they can't be cured, if they have no interest in curing themselves, why ever let them out again, right? I think much, much longer mandatory sentences need to be start being dealt out for sex offenders. One thing sex offenders are supposed to do, thanks to horrible crimes committed before Duncan's final rampage, is to register to let the rest of us know they are in our midst, but it doesn't help when they flee the area like Duncan did. Duncan

was already a registered sex offender. It didn't help stop him. The violent crime control and law enforcement act of 1994, 1994, AKA Megan's law, was set up to require that all 50 states released information about sex offenders to the public, but does it work? It did not define how the states would accomplish such a feat. Every state carries out the law in its own way. Some states mandate active notification where law enforcement personnel put up posters or even go door to door to tell locals that there's a sex offender in their midst. 22 of the states, however, only require passive notification, which means the residents themselves have to take the initiative to constantly

recheck websites and seek it out. Find out if a sex offender is living in their neighborhood or not. Children's advocates claim that there are more than 550,000 registered sex offenders in the US and that about one-fourth of them do not even bother complying with sex registry laws and they just vanish when they get out of jail. Again, we need to overhaul this system. It's not good enough. Now let's talk about this fucker's blog. The fifth nail exposed chronicles, what's's called, shortly after Duncan's arrest, detectives

mask-align matters discovered that he'd made a blog dedicated to opposing registration laws for sex offenders. He called it the fifth nail, posted frequently after its creation in early 2004. Many of the entries focused on Duncan's own sex crimes and his obsession about the way in which sex offenders are treated by society. Surprisingly, he also sometimes wrote about his desire to get closer to God, which is a fucking weird combo.

Ah, the blog did help investigators convict Duncan of those earlier murders prior to Groney's family, right, because he'd written about him. Duncan explained why he called the site the fifth nail. Apparently, it's based on some nonsensical myths about gypsies crafting five nails for Christ's execution, not four. The fifth nail was meant to pierce his heart, but the

gypsies hid the fifth nail from the Roman soldiers. Duncan went on to write the gypsies who made the nails report trade and mythical stories claiming that they were punished by God for causing Christ to suffer longer. And still other stories that Duncan referred to, the gypsies were rewarded for trying to protect Christ. Duncan also wrote that the fifth nail is supposedly a genuine sacred relic that has miraculous power. The mission statement of Duncan's site stated

that the fifth nail's purpose was to aid in the struggle opposing official propaganda that helps propagate intolerance towards certain classes of people, i.e. sex offenders, who have been singled out because of prior mistakes or even those mistakes that they might make in the future. God damn it. Oh man, like any type of, what the fucking balls people have.

Like you're convicted, you know, sex offender, like especially on like a rape level, pedophile level, and then you're actively like, we need more rights. Fuck you. No, you don't. Whenever you did what you did to get you that charge, in my opinion, you signed away all your rights.

Go fuck yourself. Right, you're the victim. He's the victim, guys. He's been unjustly prosecuted, right? He's persecuted. All he did was raise a bunch of kids and kill people. Come on. I pictured him like showing up at like a,

like if he could, if he was released, like a like a Black Lives matter rally or something trying to Act like it's the same. Hey, I get it you guys. I Lord knows I get it I mean just like you've been discriminated unfairly because of the color of your skin. I have been unfairly discriminated against because I you know fucking like to put my Wean in the wrong places and then I picture what the fuck did you say records scratch a moment? Duncan's first blog entry appears been written on january for two thousand four which he states that he hope that his website would serve as a voice for a press criminals

you so pressed in another post he claims that he was not a pedophile uh... despite all the evidence in contradiction or convictions to the contrary he says that when he was sentenced he'd been sent to an adult sex defender program where half the men in his treatment group sat and fantasized about him What that doesn't mean okay, just because you're right other pedophiles doesn't mean that you're also not a pedophile It's like it's like he just forgot that he went to that program for for raping a 14 year old boy at gunpoint Patel him to ask for the stick and burn in him

He's written about forgiveness for those who commit crimes, arguing that punishment is just more crime. And the only cure for crime is love. What? No. What? It's not how crime and justice works. Does someone rapes and kills a kid? Well, he's probably like, if I can give him a hug,

like, come on buddy, love you. Please don't, please don't do that anymore. Come on. You know, we know you're a good guy deep down. Just knock it off if you could. Death is the only cure for crime. and a lot of other ailments. If we were all dead, the crime rate would be 0%. I'm not advocating the whole death, but come on.

Death makes way more sense than love in this situation. Then Duncan blames society for people like him committing crimes the first place. He writes, our society loves the excitement. The sex offenders bring into our living rooms through the media and we'll be lost without someone to point our fingers at. But yeah, I mean, I'm doing the podcast about the guy clearly there's a morbid fascination. But society would be lost? No. If we couldn't point our fingers at pieces of shit like, we'd find something else, right? I mean, how great would the

world be if it was like scandalous to talk about a J Walker, like if the world became so soft and nice that that was shocking. That's the world I want to live in. That'd be an amazing world. Just tonight on 2020 Robert Bobson has been crossing streets willy nilly for multiple years. Will he be stopped despite being arrested for over 35 times. He still refused to wait for the light or find a crosswalk when he was in a hurry.

When will it end? When he causes a minor traffic accident? How many law-abiding citizens does he have to startle? Before we do away with all this madness, I mean, that's a fucking great world. Right, you acclimate to however bad society is. If everyone was amazing, it would be like, oh my God, when someone got picked up shoplifting,

why would someone ever take someone without paying for it? There's theoretically, that could be the worst world we could live in. That would be great. And I'd be doing podcasts about some guy who was a fucking serial shoplifter. Look, Kit Kat Ken. And you'd all be sitting there going, holy shit! What the fuck? We got to get harder Kit Kat loss.

I can't let people take Kit Kat all the time. God damn, it's gonna be anarchy. There's a ton more to investigate in this blog if you're so inclined. You can even leave comments if you want to. I told myself I wasn't gonna do that. I didn't want to feed him on any level, but then this stuff makes me so angry and emotional

and I lost my temper and I did leave a comment under a post of his title, Time to Die or Not. It's like two or three posts back. He rants about how long it takes to die on death row and he worries that his worst nightmare will come true. That he won't be executed. And instead he will grow old and prison because they don't take care of you and you get old

and oh, fucking what was me. And then he writes about how he doesn't fear death. And, you know, well, I left a comment and it's not witty. Not gonna lie to you. It's not clever or funny. I thought about not telling you, but I did leave it. I didn't erase it. Here's what I wrote, 10.48 AM.

It was posted on January 14th. I wrote, you don't have to wait for the death penalty. You child killing coward. Just fucking kill yourself already. May I suggest ripping your own dick off with your bare hands and choking on it? Maybe think of all the lives you ruined while the light fades out of your completely worthless eyes. When you do go, man, I hope it's really, really, really painful.

If anyone deserves that, it's you. Gosh dang, oh my heck, that was aggressive. That was aggressive. I got, I was frowned up. Okay, now if you've listened for a very long time and you know that I'm a big advocate for not killing yourself. I am strongly against suicide.

In most cases, in this case, I'm for it. I am for it. Hale, I don't know, maybe Lucifina on this one. Okay. Hale Lucifina, let's get out of here. Time for top five takeaways. Time, suck. Top five takeaways. Number one, Duncan was prolific at being horrible. He was diagnosed in prison. The young age has been a sexual psychopath. He violated parole numerous times, killed several children before meeting Shaston her family.

We gotta do something more about these guys. Number two, we'll never know exactly how much damage Duncan inflicted upon the world before he was locked up. He's still connected in some way to numerous cold cases. Number three, thank you, National Center for Missing Exploited Children for sending out oh so many flyers. And thank you to those two dudes smoking outside of Denny's Nick Chapman and Chris Donlin and to that waitress Amber Dean for calling the police or God knows what would have happened

to Shasta. Number four, Duncan's final arrest sparked the national conversation about what should be done with serial pedophiles. Is there any way to rehabilitate them other than death? Number five, what should be done about the death penalty, right? We've talked about that quite a bit on time, Succa over the last few years. Well, there is a great website called procon.org. I didn't know about it until this week. It advertised itself as pros and cons of current issues, reliable, nonpartisan empowering. It's called procon.org. I didn't know about it until this week. It advertised itself as pros and cons of current issues, reliable, nonpartisan, and powering. It's an awesome website. Looking around a bit, it seems so cool.

In 2016, they led out the pros and cons of the death penalty when it came to morality, deterrence, cost, closure for victims, et cetera. Ten different arguments on each side of this issue. Too many to get into them all right here. So I chose one, the issue of deterrence, crime deterrence. Does the death penalty deter other crimes? For the pro side of this argument, the website shows a 2014 quote from David Mulhausen, PhD, research fellow in empirical policy analysis at the Heritage Foundation. And David says, some crimes are so heinous and inherently wrong that they demand strict penalties,

up to and including life sentences or even death. Most Americans recognize this principle as just. Studies of the death penalty have reached various conclusions about its effectiveness in deterring crime. But the majority of studies that track effects over many years and across states or counties find a deterrent effect. Indeed, other recent investigations using a variety of samples and statistical methods consistently demonstrate a strong link between executions and reduced murder rates.

In short, capital punishment does, in fact, save lives. Okay, so that is an argument in favor of it. Now for the con. The website shows John Jay Donahue, the third JD PhD professor of law at Stanford University to pull a quote from. This, this, this Donahue, Dr. Donahue wrote in 2015, there is not the slightest credible statistical evidence that capital punishment reduces the rate of homicide. So obviously varying studies. Whether one compares the similar movements of homicide in Canada and the US when only the latter restored the death penalty or in American states that have abolished it versus those that retain it or in Hong Kong and Singapore, the first abolishing the death penalty

in the mid-90s, the second greatly increasing its usage at the same time. There is no detectable effect of capital punishment on crime. The best echa-econometric studies reached the same conclusion. Last year roughly 14,000 murders were committed, but only 35 executions took place. Since murderers typically expose themselves to far greater immediate risks, the likelihood is incredibly remote that some small chance of execution many years after committing to crime will influence the behavior of a sociopathic deviant Who would otherwise be willing to kill if his only penalty were life imprisonment? Any criminal who actually thought he would be caught would find the prospect of life without parole to be a monumental penalty Any criminal who didn't think he would be caught would be untroubled by any sanction

think he would be caught would be untroubled by any sanction. So if you want to dig further into this argument, go to procon.org, look up the death penalty argument. Cold logic seems to point to not having a death penalty. Emotionally, I'm still in favor of it because for lack of a better word, it just feels more fucking fair to me in the case of someone like Joseph Duncan. Time suck. Top five takeaways. All right, Joseph Duncan. Another dirt bag thrown in the suck pile. Hopefully we have an update soon about how he died a horrible death in prison.

Weird week driving past so much of where he did went down. Felt more disturbing than normal. Thanks to the time, so team, thanks to Queen of the Sucklings, you know, where, where what he did went down. They'll felt more disturbing than normal. Thanks to the time stock team, thanks to Queen of the Sucklins, you comments, high praise to the Suck Harmony Valley camp, Reverend Dr. Paisley, the BiddoLixer app design crew, Logan and Kate at Spicy Club, check out the new merch store, badmagicmurch.com, the script keeper, Zach Flannery, who also was a little traumatized by this week's research.

Check out the Cold Securus Private Facebook group. If you want to make a new cult member friends, or just get a little more social in 2020, we have over 15,000 members in there feeling great about that. Also the Time Suck Discord channel, via the Time Suck app, easiest way to access it,

has over 5,000 diehard suckers in there. So thanks for continuing to grow that. And you can also follow us on a growing Instagram channel at Time Suck podcast. And watch the show, YouTube YouTube Bad Magic Productions. He is the name of the channel. Excuse me. Next week is the Brothers Grim, first published on December 2018-12. Jacob and Wilhelm Grim published a controversial book of children's tales, folk tales, and fairy tales they gathered that include stories like Snow White and Hansel and Gretel. And the book was controversial because

some of the stories we bit dark. Hansel and Grittle. And the book was controversial because some of the stories, we bit dark. Hansel and Grittle is about a young brother and sister kidnap by a cannibalistic witch, living in the forest, and a house constructed of gingerbread, cake, confection, candy, and many other treats. Now, some fucked up lady, lowering kids out into the woods so she can eat them. A little ride in hood about a girl being stalked by a tricky wolf who wants to Eater Girl without hands another grim tail, but a girl whose dad chops her hands off keeps devil from taking his daughter Huh, this is the shit people used to read their kids to get there ready for bed back in 1812

It's gonna be a weird episode Nice look into the medieval mind good excuse to examine a bunch of folklore. I love folklore The stories we tell are you know Ourself is about the world tell so much about us, it's gonna be interesting. And now let's see what stories you have all been telling me this past week in today's Time Sucker Updates. [♪ music playing in background, music playing in background,

music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing I'm sucker updates. Quick note on these updates, if you send a message pertaining to declassified military documents, it won't show up here today, because I recorded this suck before that episode dropped, so it might show up next week. Okay, let's get to today's first message. One of the best messages I have ever read so far on the show makes me feel good about doing episodes like we did today, because it can help in some weird, small way.

You wouldn't get super dark like it was today. This was sent in by Super Sucker, Law officer Chase. I'm going to leave his last name out. I'm almost set. I can leave his last name out for legal reasons. Chase writes, dear sir, sucking to in sweet, profit of Nimrod, long time list, and her first time writer, I have to share with you a short story on how your podcast helped catch a possible child rapist. I'm a police officer and I will leave out my department in location because this is actually a true story. We had been receiving reports of a guy

hanging around elementary schools waiting for little girls to walk home alone, popping out of his car to masturbate in front of them. They would rise in frequency and then die off like he was testing what he could get away with what he, we hadn't caught him in months. We never had a license plate or accurate car description. Then the other day I was listening to the Girl Scout

murder suck on shift, don't tell my sergeant. I took another report in the guy, matching the description this time, following a little girl home. This had happened numerous times, and at this point the mom and daughter are terrified. This individual's actions were getting scarier and more drastic, and this is where it gets good.

Fueled by our mutual hatred of weenie waggers and kid diddlers, oh, fucking, hell no, Rod. I made a mental decision that this motherfucker wouldn't get away with this anymore. I notified the entire department, searched the area for days, this led to using undercover vehicles to catch the sky. The good news is that we caught him within two days

of me listening to that suck with his pants around his ankles, literally next to the school. The scary thing is that he was driving in front of that little girl's house that he had been following home. So thank you, master of the suck, forgive me, the motivation, and good luck needed to catch this bastard. Hail Nimrod, praise both jangles, and fuck pedophiles. Holy shit, Chase, man, great job. You fucking hero. Yeah. As you know, I'm sure in a way more real than I, these guys tend to escalate their bad behavior. We talked about that in today's episode. This guy got worse and worse.

Today's peeping, tomorrow it's touching, maybe raping, maybe these assholes end up going full blown, Joseph Duncan. You could have literally just saved that girl's life by catching the stooot. I hope you feel really damn good about that. Think about that when you're having a bad day, how you 100% for sure made a huge difference in someone's life, possibly numerous someone's,

Hail Nimrod, thank you so much for what you do. Next up, a message of hope coming in from a strong as fuck meat sack named Molly, leaving her last name out as well, because of it, you know, it's a sensitive message. Molly leaves a subject line of pretty heavy shit coming your way. She's right. Here goes, Dear master of the sock, this message is going to be pretty hard for me to write, but I feel like it's needed not just for myself,

but for everyone who listens. I'm not sure how to start. So I guess I'll get right into it. Back in June, I had my 26th birthday. I was sexually assaulted in my own home nonetheless. The place I should have been safe in. I know this is a touchy subject, hang in there. I've been having an extremely hard time with this panic attacks, depression, anxiety, all of that. Everything seems too much to handle. Well, a few weeks ago, I was listening to the son of Sam Suck and I got to the part where you said

they were so close to safety had happened right outside their home. I had to turn the episode off and I cried. I wasn't able to listen for a while. Now, I've battled with depression for years, grew up with an alcoholic mother. I was kidnapped when I was 12, had a miscarriage at 17 and a few other things. So it's no wonder I've had depression

and I've always handled it alone. But only in the last few weeks has it gotten really bad. It hurts all the time, not just emotionally, but it feels like my heart is ripping into. It hurts Dan, it really freaking hurts. I'm tired, so tired all the time. I find it hard to get out of bed. I've been having panic attacks on the regular, like heart going to explode out of my chest, hyperventilating and gasping for breath. I cry all the time out of the blue. Everything is too much for me. I even stop wearing makeup because

I'm just going to cry it off. So why bother putting it on? And it's hard. Everything is just so hard. I don't even know how to express that properly. I even started having suicidal thoughts. I'm in a dark place right now. I'm struggling so hard right now. I'm just trying to keep it all together and I'm scared. So scared I won't be able to hold on. Scared I won't be able to make it until tomorrow. But on one particular hard day, I was driving to work and saw a sign. Not like the heavens parted and God spoke or some shit. No. An actual sign on the side of the road. A white sign with black riding, nothing else, no reason for it. Simple yet so powerful. It said one day at a time, don't give up.

Those words were always empty to me before. I broke down so hard when I saw that I just knew that I couldn't give in. I reached out to my doctor, told her how I was feeling and the thoughts I was having. She was so kind and concerned, she prescribed me antidepressants and anti-exity meds. This is very difficult for me to accept because I've always looked down on people who just couldn't seem to act right. After all, I had depression and handled it just fine so why couldn't they? Well, nothing like regular panic attacks and thoughts to suicide to humble a person.

I finally got the courage to finish the son of Sam episode, then I saw this week's episode about mental disorders. It compelled me to reach out to you. I want everyone who suffers these mental disorders to know that you are not alone. You are not weak. No one is looking down on you. And if they are, fuck them.

They don't need to be in your life. There are people who love and care about you. Please seek help if you need it, or even if you just can't handle a stress of day-to-day life. I'm still struggling with my depression and it's early to tell if the meds will do anything, but I refuse to give up.

I refuse to give in. I will keep fighting until I'm old and gray. There's no shame in admitting you need help. No matter how hard, no matter the excuse, you can get through it. Anyways, this message is way longer than I expected. I'm writing out my phone at 3 a.m. As always, praisemobjangles, hail luciferina, may you never find shallow, chikotilo, jerk, and his limp shamecock in the corner of your room. They will always be someone willing to help.

You're not alone. Stay strong, meat sacks. Holy shit, Molly. I was so powerful, so sorry for what has happened to you. Proud of you for sending that message, helping, you know, others, you know, encouraging them to get help. No shame in counts and you're absolutely right. Get it when you need it.

Life is crazy. Life can be so hard. I preach against people just walling themselves pity, but getting help is not doing that. It can be the opposite. It's fighting for your happiness, fighting for to live your fullest life. I'm like, Molly said, that isn't being weak. It's fucking strong. And if anybody doesn't get that in your life, then fucking cut them out.

Love you, Molly. Here's another email regarding the bizarre mental health disorder suck another powerful one coming in from top shelf meet sec Marcos who writes, dear suck master, I've listened to your podcasts for a long time, it was your most recent podcast and maybe want to send in a message. I'm writing this in a parking lot

on my local gender clinic. I'm a transgender man. I've been on a hormone therapy for about two to three years. I've been socially transitioning for over a decade. However however I've always considered myself a guy since birth. That being said, in my state, in order for me to qualify as legally male, I've had multiple doctors write in that I was being treated for a condition. Wording I was given on legal forms and by representatives on the state. You can imagine my dissatisfaction that my life, which hasn't and will never harm anyone,

is described with the same pathological terminology that I'd expect to hear in a 1950s insane asylum. Although something that you might find interesting, I did is another reason why gender dysphoria is still treated as somewhat of a mental condition, insurance. While the idea that transgender health should be covered under insurance is controversial itself, the fact remains that people won't stop seeking it anytime soon. And also healthcare in the US is incredibly expensive. As such, certain terminology wording, etc. is necessary, despite how annoying it is, to be covered under certain insurance plans, even if the coverage is abysmal at best. Anyways, this message is long. There's a chance you already know this.

Don't care, but I figure there's a lot of misinformation out there around being transgender, and I could help provide further insight into our lives. I promise we're normal people. Most of us just want to live our life with the liberty of bestowed upon us. Thank you, Marcus. Well, I did care about your message, Marcus. Marcus, it's important to hear stuff like this, you know. It's important that just because one person's uncomfortable with the notion of gender reassignment surgery or just about the concept of being transgender in general, if all someone else wants it to flip genders and they're not bothering anyone else in society and literally anyway at all, why the fuck should any of us care? Right, the rest of us.

If someone going through gender reassignment does not manifest any type of mental illness at the only, if they only just want to physically be the gender, they've always felt they were psychologically and counselors attest to this and they go through various screenings and treatments over, you know, fairly long period of time to make sure they're not doing this for some reason associated with mental illness. And why the fuck should any of us care? All right, I hope the transition goes smoothly. Hope you live a full happy life. Also, not sure if you get to pick your penis size, Marcus.

Not even kidding here, but if you do, maybe hit up Reverend Dr. Joe, you know, find out how he went from micro-pain to horsecock. I don't know which doctor he used for that, but they sound legit. But seriously, thank you, Marcus, hail them, Rod. If I could update my, you know, my generals, I would get a new right ball, for sure, not even joking.

It's sick of my right ball right now. I gotta go get an ultra sound. I supposed to call about today, but I didn't. Bad monkey bar accident as a kid, still going to the doctor for fucking wonky ball over 30 years later. I hope they cut it off. I don't care for it.

Fuck my fuck you, right, ball. It's been weak and tender for a long time. Anyways, enough ball problems. Dungeon update from Super Sucker Ryan Sanders, who writes, we still use dungeons. Hey, master suck, master, or hey, master sucker. I'm listening to the bizarre mental disorder suck and you mentioned how strange it is to you

that people with mental issues were literally locked away in dungeons. Believe it or not, we still do that today. Mental health disorders often cause people to get arrested many times on minor things, then they get put in jail where they sometimes receive some treatment. Once they've completed their stint, their released where they get no more treatment,

get re-arrested, the cycle begins again. As a former deputy who worked in my county's jail for five years, I've seen far too many repeat customers whose only real crime was a mental illness they weren't receiving help for. Sure, our dungeons are spaz compared to those of old, but they are still dungeons, keep up to good work, Ryan. Well, thank you, Ryan.

Love, here, and info straight from the source. That is tragic. People's the only real crime is being mentally ill, being put in in prison over and over again, not in a proper treatment center. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. How do we change that? Well, I guess we vote for who's gonna change that. I don't know who that is. So many problems in society. So hard to find solutions. Special thanks to all the problem solvers out there, man. Activists, flanthropists, good politicians, nonprofit employees, volunteers, grant writers, all people working hard to make the world better and fix problems like this hail Nimrod. Last message.

Coming in from mint condition meets that Kate Chandler. Kate also hates certain noises, feels less alone after the bizarre mental health disorder suck. She writes hay master's sucker. I've been listening to your stand up for a long time. It's excited to hear you had a podcast. Yours was the first one I listened to. Today's suck on mental illness,

one of my favorites to date. I have several family members and friends myself included who have some sort of mental illness. I was so glad I almost are a crime that I'm not alone with the noise thing. I can't sleep in a room with a fan or TV on. I will stay up all night if I don't have some sort of noise going.

My toes, without a fan or TV on, exactly. My toes start to curl in irritation and I can't make a stop for my husband likes the room to be silent. I also have tons, I also cannot have tons of noise at once. Like if the TV's going, well he listens to music while our kids toys going off, I lose my shit. I also have this thing about restarting things I've already started watching or listening to. Drives my husband nuts. We will start watching a movie or show and then we stop for whatever reason. He says, oh, we can restart it.

No big deal. For me, it is a huge deal. That means saying, if we have to rewind anything, I don't mean like we watch a movie, then a week later, we watch it again. It's the rewinding and restarting after a short amount of time. But I want to keep watching show with him and he doesn't want to watch it for a while. And he wants to restart on season one. I have not gotten past season two of supernatural for this reason.

Wondering if I am alone in this, we love each other a lot, but I think my little quirks like that drive him nuts. Thanks for all you do, love Katie Chandler. Thank you Katie. That's interesting about three winding. I don't have that one, but I get it. Probably feels like you're wasting your time, like you're spinning your wheels. Haha.

He just did it. Dad joke. No, but I hate having my time wasted too. Ha ha, you can just spin it. Dad joke. No, but I hate having my time wasted too. My wife Lindsey does something a little similar. She hates it when people repeat herself or I have to repeat themselves. Like no one loves it but she fucking hates it and she knows she hates it more than is rational.

As far as watching TV goes, I hate it when Lindsey asked me to adjust the volume. That's one of my weird quirks. Like unless I'm holding the remote, why are you asking me? What am I the fucking God of volume? I'm fine with the volume, otherwise I would be increasing it myself. So I'm okay with it, you're not okay with it. Sounds like it's a you problem, why don't you fucking deal with it? Why do I have to change the volume for you? How am I supposed to

even know how your ear is hearing it to match it? We'll have our shit. Last thing I talked about so much darkness today can weigh down a person to think about all the assholes in the world, can weigh me down. So think about the good stuff too. If you're feeling like there's nothing but dirt bags out there, Google something like Kid Receives Huge Donation and feel better looking at article after article of pure joy. There's a lot of good out there too. Hail Nimrod. That's all for the updates today. Next time, suckers. I need a net. We all did.

That's all for this week, meet Sachs. Have a great week. Don't do anything that Joseph Duncan did except get good grades in college. Fuck that guy and keep on sucking. Joseph Duncan fuck you