Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 18 - Charles Manson: Sex, Murder, and Helter Skelter

Episode Date: January 16, 2017

In 1969 Charles Manson convinced Tex Watson and several young women to brutally murder seven innocent people in Los Angeles, including rising star/model Sharon Tate. Why did he do it and how did he become the crazy guy we see now with a swastika on his forehead talking nonsense in prison? How could this obvious maniac convince anyone into giving him a ride down the street let alone into murdering on his behalf? Find out all this and more in my favorite Timesuck so far!

It was the summer of 1969. President Nixon has begun to withdraw troops at a Vietnam. Neil Armstrong becomes the first man to walk on the moon as part of the Apollo 11 landing. And the week before Woodstock brought 400,000 free-loving hippies to a farm in upstate New York and changed the course of rock and roll and music festivals forever. Charles Manson convinces four members of his new family to brutally kill five people in the Dupanga Canyon home of director Roman Polanski,

including his eight and a half month pregnant wife, rising star Sharon Tate. The next night, the Manson family will strike again, killing another couple and nearby Los Felos. By December 8th, 1969, Charles Manson will be charged with first degree murder and seven killings, even though no one died at his hand. How did a career criminal fresh out of prison

without even a high school education, commits numerous young middle class women with no prior criminal records? It's not only abandon their lives and follow him up and down the California coast, but to also brutally stab strangers to death at his command. Where does a person like that come from? What type of childhood creates such a unique

and terrible force of nature? What kind of dude gets people to murder? People to start a race war and his insane and hilarious Helter-Skelter vision. Find out all this and more and what has been my personal favorite time sucks so far. You're listening to Time Seven. Wow, I got a big one for everybody today. Spend a lot of time on this baby and happy to do so. I feel like I'm starting to figure this podcast out.

You know, I gotta get a jump on the research so I don't feel rushed to throw out a half-ready episode come one day. I'm trying to get a fair amount of these kind of in the can, so I can take my time with ones as needed. And I did need a jump on this one, I'm glad I got it. I lost a couple days out on the road, hold up in a hotel,

list in demands in music, watch in demands in interviews, demands in documentaries, reading a lot of articles about this diminutive little psychopath. And before I get into it, welcome to the show. And a little house cleaning. I want to, I want to come at real quick on last week's episode and kind of the week before. I just, I want

to apologize for not putting the time I needed to to make those episodes what I feel like they could have been. And I got a lot of positive comments from you guys and I feel very appreciative. But I just don't feel like they were as entertaining as they needed to be. I felt like I meandered a lot. I felt like, and I knew what going in. I was like, you know, whatever. I'll have a lot of interesting facts to share.

Who cares that I don't have my brain around with the narrative of this episode is supposed to be. And that's bullshit. You know, you guys take your time to listen to this, and I want it to be worth it. I want it to be, you know, something that's not just like a podcast you like, but your favorite podcast. I want to put something out there in the world that is just meaningful.

I mean, that's kind of the driving artistic goal of my life. It's to do shit that's going to stand up to a little test of time and that people can be proud of or wear a way that they're a part of. I know it sounds crazy. But yeah, yeah, and I just, I didn't feel like the last couple did that. I'm still getting a handle on, I'm just trying to figure out, you know, how to make this podcast as good as it can be. I'm so glad that you guys have been so nice on iTunes and everywhere else.

And I don't feel like we've reached near the potential of what this thing can be. Because I just, I want it to be really informative, I want it to be really funny, and I just want it to be really, really honest, because there's so much bullshit in the world, so much bullshit, and it's like, you know, we bullshit each other in friendships, we bullshit each other in relationships at work,

and I just want this to be a place where you can come, and you can hear one person's 100,000% unfiltered, can't fucking talk, I'm gonna need it. Trying to say, say, it's important. Fuck it up, unfiltered perspective on something. And I did that the best I could last few weeks, but without the proper preparation. And I did get one email so far, it just came out as I'm recording this, the Walmart episode.

But you know, with some constructive criticism, and I really appreciate this. I'm going to read a quick little email from part of it, an excerpt from Charlie McKayley, Utah, and just before your list in Charlie, which I think you are, know this is going to be, this is nice. I am not upset at all. And you sent me some really nice emails. And one was, I really do love your comedy and your podcast with the last podcast.

You said how Walmart needs to raise its pay. I see your side. I respectfully disagree with your premise that the minimum wage should be raised. You should do some research on what that would do to smaller companies like mine. And instead of only talking about larger companies, maybe do a podcast on how this country's politicians

have shit on small businesses for decades now, I pay 37% in business tax. Wow, dude, that's crazy. 37% in business tax, 20% in materials, and roughly 3% on miscellaneous, raising the minimum wage would destroy small businesses. I know this is coming off like I'm saying, fuck you, I swear I'm not.

I'm not supposed to either, can't listen to someone I can disagree with. I love that. It would take me a lot to stop listening to your podcast or comedy. And then and then Charlie followed up with an apology email. What did you need to do? You didn't need to do that Charlie, but it titled, I'm a douche, which made me laugh really hard, but you're not a douche at all Charlie. I love it when you guys disagree with me so much because I learn as much from your guys' suggestions as you may learn from these podcasts. I love that it's reciprocal and I love constructive criticism.

I love it so much. Because another kind of goal in my life is to improve. I wanna always improve my comedy and make it hopefully smarter and funnier and I wanna improve this podcast each and every week if possible. And this is the kind of shit that does it. You're right, man, you know, each and every week if possible. And this is the kind of shit that does it. You're right, man, you are 100% right.

I did not research that and I should have. And that's what I was referring to earlier. And I knew that before this email came in. It was a huge fucking topic that I didn't have my brain around and I should have taken, I should have sat in it for a few months. And I should have went on to other topics and came back to it and added to it and added to it

and total is totally ready like today's topic. He is by the way very excited. And so I apologize to you. And just for the record, you know, what I was trying to do with the Walmart thing is not point out that small businesses are bad. I'm really not. And I don't know the main thrust of what I was trying to get out there is that a corporation that has billions and billions and billions in profits each and every year should kick some back to the people making that company great. The bottom tier of employees, I just hate how man, if history shows us one thing, it's the poor and the voiceless get motherfucked.

Every goddamn generation. And just insanely greedy wealthy people who just pat themselves on the back like they deserve it all. Fuck you. That's that is enemy number one over the world. That's the exploiter that one holding the little man down., that's the exploiter. The one holding the little man down. So that's what I was just trying to get at. You know, so I'm with you. I'm with you, Charlie, and I appreciate that. And you are absolutely not a douche. You are awesome.

Thank you for paying so much attention. And today, it's getting to this shit. Today's time suck was requested by two separate time suckers. We got Jeff Patik, hopefully I'm saying that right PAT YK He'd asked for a man's an episode You emailed me an admin at time suck podcast.com appreciate all the emails there and Horton Alfredo hit me up on Twitter January 3rd point out the Mansons in the hospital some kind of serious medical condition turns out very vague I couldn't find any info as to what exact type of medical condition he's suffering from.

At this point, of the recording, like the prism won't release it. And this is actually the first topic my wife suggests our research earlier, which explains why I'm with her. She loves crazy shit. So thanks everyone for pushing me on this episode. Didn't realize how little I knew about Charles Manson until I dug in. I had always thought of Charles Manson as just like almost like a weird quasi celebrity

like this pop culture reference where it's like, you know, like Marilyn Manson, that band, you know, which I like a lot of their songs, you know, took part of their name from Charles Manson. He's like this symbol of just, you know, cartoonish evil or, you know, a fuck you to the system, you know, cartoonish evil, or, you know, a fuck you to the system. You know, he just looks like an insane homeless guy with a swastika carves into his forehead and whenever I'd seen interviews, I didn't really listen to what he was saying.

I just was amused by his kind of cycle babble. You know, he talks in this like crazy prison slang and and this weird beatnicky, evil beatnicky vibe when you watch interviews with the dude talk. And I thought it was a fucking nut. And I knew he had to do with murders in the 60s or 70s. I knew the exacty, I knew the name, Sharon Tate, I knew Roman Polansky. Who I could do a whole episode on that fucking pedophile. If you don't know about that, Roman Polansky, who I could do a whole episode on that fucking pedophile. If you don't know about that, Roman Polansky,

you know, shortly after all this has been hiding out of the country. Still making movies, even though we sawdamize a 13-year-old mother fucker. But he's an artist. He's an artist. So you know what? If the gas station attendant does that, you know, he's a scurred to the earth.

But if he's Roman Polansky, he can still be, you know, he's a scurred to the earth. But if he's Roman Polansky, he can still be, you know, heralded by the, you know, the prestigious actors and actresses, you know, of the day and, you know, the Academy Awards. You know what? You get to put your wiener, I guess, in a 13-year-old's butt, if you're good enough director. That's what we learned from Roman Polansky. Fuck that guy. And fuck his movies.

But anyway. I'm not gonna get distracted. That's a director. That's what we learned from Roman Polansky. Fuck that guy. Fuck his movies. But anyway, I'm not gonna get distracted by Old Polansky. But anyway, that's why I thought about Manson. Didn't know much. And oh my God, I had so much fun in a dark morbid way, researching this guy, because he, what a fascinating life. And what a crazy, I mean, very dark, but crazy amount of life, he crammed into what very little time

he didn't spend in prison. I did not know about his past before the summer of 69 and the Manson family murders. So to get a feel from Manson, we've got to go back to the beginning. We've got to get to know this guy from birth, so you can see what creates, what conditions. A fucking very unique monster,

very different than like a Bundy or a Gacy, you know, a serial killer. He is a unique animal, about as unique as they come. So this is the first of two in this episode, Time Sub Timelines. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time sucked timelines. November 12, 1934. Charles Manson is born in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Oh, Cincinnati! Given us Manson, well played. To single mother, 16-year old, Kathleen Maddox. His father, you know, was like a brief fling Kathleen had who left the picture long before. Charlie was ever born. I don't know, I'm fucking calling Charlie now. You're like, we're, we're all pals.

But yeah, anyway, he was a dude named Colonel Scott. I guess his first name was Colonel. That's kind of weird. Colonel Scott, sounds like Colonel Sanders. I just picture this lady fucking Colonel Sanders in a baby coming out with a swastika on her forehead. But anyway, Colonel Scott, Ashland Kentucky, this guy would die by 1954.

Never acknowledging his son. And around the time of the birth Charles Manson, up Charles Manson, Kathleen briefly married William Manson, that's how he got his last name. So then 1939 to 1944, Kathleen and her brother served a five year prison sentence for the armed robbery of a West Virginia gas station. And this was such a hillbilly crime.

They didn't even, they didn't even, I think they were armed with the bottle. It was like technically considered a weapon, like they pretended like they had a gun. It was like, it was like the equivalent of like the finger in your pocket, like stick them up. And you know, it turns out you got to, just your hand in there, like it was just such a backwoods

fucking hillbilly west Virginia crime. And but they go to prison for five years. And little Charlie, he goes to live a few miles from the prison with some relatives, his aunt Jenna, Uncle Bill, good old Uncle Bill, cousin Joanne, a lot of early mid 20th century, you know, Joanne, I don't know, I was going to say West Virginia names, whatever, but who else, but they did seem like some solid West Virginia backwards, fucking hill folk. Uncle Bill supposedly sent little Charlie, who was always small for his age, to his first

day of school. So think about this kid, his first day of school. He's a tiny, his kid in class. He's a very small little guy. He's a center of school addressed up as a girl. So he's going to school dressed up as a girl. His mom's in prison. His dad is nowhere in sight. And he did this, was sending to prison,

or sending to school like this, because he thought he was a sissy. He wanted to toughen him up. It's like the old Johnny Cash, boy called, boy called Sue, kind of technique, I guess. Well, not surprisingly, Charlie come home crying about how a kid is hitting him. Well, the same uncle that dressed him up like a girl apparently slapped Charlie across the fucking ear.

So hard, he couldn't hear for several days, told him to find that bully who was picking on him when he went back to school the next day And do not come home until that kids either bleed and are on the ground. That's a quote bleeding around the ground. Oh Man, not the best situation for a boy, you know between the ages of five and ten Again, no dad, mom is a prison Yes, psychotic hillbillies Telling you how the world's supposed to work. You're getting your ass beat at school. You're the tiniest kid in class.

So that's where we start. That's where we start with Charles. 1944 to 47, Manson is back and forth between living with his mom, being abandoned by his mom, living on his own, being abandoned by his mom again, juvenile detention centers. Even by like teen mom standards, Spiral Accounts Kathleen was a terrible mother. There's all kinds of stories about how she may have been an on-again off-again prostitute, you know, like stories like she would, you know, send him to the neighbors for like

an hour when her, you know, her John would come over and she'd leave Charlie with a family, you know, take off to live with some new man. Just like completely abandoned him. Go to a, you know, neighboring state like Indiana or somewhere. And then when that relationship inevitably didn't work out, because she was a fuck and train wreck of a person. She'd come back, take Charlie back, abandon them again, stories about like working like stuff like as a dive

at a dive bar, as a bartender, while Charlie watched himself in the apartment above the bar, I mean undoubtedly bringing dudes home here and there after shifts. Again, been in prison, you know, for armed robbery already. So, let's just say she had a very relaxed moral code, a very relaxed maternal instincts, i.e. none. Yeah, this is the worst one from that era.

According to Manson, at one point, she sold Charles to a waitress. She worked with for a picture of beer, stayed with the waitress, who I imagine just felt sorry for the kid, for a few days until an uncle came and picked him up. So there, again, you know, mom gets out of prison, now you're this little kid, you know, what, 10, 11, 12, if you're getting traded for fucking beer pictures,

that's gonna build up a little hatred towards women, I would say. In 1947, Kathleen tried to place 13-year-old Charlie and foster care, wanted to just give him to, that is so fucked at 13. I mean, oh my God, like I get it, you know, I'm really trying not to be judgmental, where it's like, let's say you're a teen mom

and you got a baby, it's like, man, and you think, okay, they're gonna have a better life, and then a foster family raises them I get that I really really truly do but when the kid is 13 figure it the fuck out you monster Man you're forming your identity and your mom's like get out of here shithead Well, she couldn't get the course to play court to place him in foster care You know it's probably because he's too old, you know. And he goes to the jibalt school for boys and terror hoat.

Ten months later, he runs away to find his mom, does find her. And now she rejects him for the rest of his childhood. And he's 13. And oh, my God, you know, the more and the more I would read about her Kathleen, the more I want, you know, her to be and well, she's dead now. But I wanted her to be in prison, you know, after the summer of 69 for the rest of her

life as well too. She made this dude, and the, you know, and the dad who abandoned it to be fair to her, you know, he's equally responsible for just not fucking being there at all. So yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I don't understand, I would kill for my kids. I mean, not been the best human being, you know, in certain ways, I made mistakes like everybody else, but man, the kids, I can't imagine abandon them. So anyway, make your body rest in anguish there, Kathleen.

So let's go later to 1947. Oh, and by the way, Kathleen did not, it's not like she, her backstory was terrible. She was raised in a, you know, uptight religious household as was most of the fucking world at that time, but no stories ever of, like, abuse or anything with her. She just seemed like a piece of shit. Later 1947, 13-year-old Manson commits a string of burglaries. The crime of, again, uses the money to rent himself a room, again, at 13, my son's just turning 11, I can't imagine living on your own. He's quickly caught, sent to an Indianapolis juvenile detention center, escapes after just one day,

quickly recaptured, commits more burglaries, and then back and forth he goes. Now, this begins the long period of like criminal incarceration of his life. And he's already been just bounced around in his standard different places. 1949, 15-year-old man sent to Father Flanagan's Boys Town in Omaha, Nebraska, where incredibly he was not molested. I think it's miraculous, considering he spent time in a center with the words father, boys, and town, all in the town.

That sounds like the Mustang ranch for pedophiles, for Peter Rast, which randomly learned through some other research. That's a pedophile who only likes boys, I guess, Peter Rast. But yeah, unbelievably, he was not molested there. I mean, it truly sounds like a South Park kind of, you know, like a name they would give to a place

where like every kid gets finger. Like father Flanagan's boys to sound like father finger Bears boys. That's horrible 1949 four days after being placed in boys town man's and escapes goes back to burglary's commits his first on robberies and Ends up in the Indiana boys school where he would later claim he was beaten and raped. How much does that suck? You escape from father flannigan's boys town where you're not raped, only to end up in Indiana Boyd school where you are.

I mean, the kid didn't have a chance. Again, not saying anything he did later was justified, but my God. I can't imagine that kind of childhood. 1951, Manson is escaped from the Indiana boys, but I don't know why I'm laughing, I'm just stupid. He escaped from the Indiana boys, but rape palace.

I actually wrote down on my notes, I'm an idiot. And heads towards California and a stolen car, robbing gas stations along the way. And it's got, and Utah then sent to the Washington DC National Training School for Boys. A lot of places for boys., then sent to the Washington D.C. National Training School for Boys. A lot of places for boys. He just sent to one boys place after another. Not the smartest criminal. It's like, let's steal a car. And then let's just, in order to pay for the gas in the way, let's just rob every gas station we encounter. No one will, no

one will ever trace our, our past that way. And way, and our stolen car with the license plate, the ideas, and just creating witnesses at every place we stop of more crimes. So it's hard to say if he was just really, really bad at committing crimes at this point, or if he just robbed so many fucking places, that even though maybe his bad end average was high for pulling off, you know, he's such,

he still got caught all the time. Just the volume of crimes he was committed. And then he bounces around, getting transferred from one penal institution, do another, bounce it around the country, finally gets out. 1954th, age of 20, what does he do? Finds Mama, yeah, sweet Mama Kathleen.

Oh, that guiding light. And he finds her back in West Virginia. You know, goes to her for Sound Moral Guidance. I'm sure she, I would love to just be a fly in the wall of what kind of life lesson she's getting Charles. He does everyone's time to get your Charles. He just got a fucking take what you're. I don't know.

January 1955, 20-year-old Manson Mary, 17-year-old Rosalie, Gene Willis in Mechon West Virginia, because that's as you do in West Virginia in the 50s, you may have 17-year-olds. There's probably a by-law that you had to with that or something. But almost immediately gets her pregnant again as you do in the West Virginia. As you do in the West Virginia. And yeah, they have no decent adult looking out for them. Charles works odd jobs. And imagine this, steal stuff.

Start stealing cars, burglarize this to pay the bills. Well, already by 1956, the very following year. He's back in jail, a series of car thefts and parole violations have landed him three years in federal prison in San Pedro, California. Rosalie and mom had out to LA and visited him in prison, and Rosalie gives birth to little Charlie Manson Jr.

A son who, following his own mother's example, Charles Wood's student completely abandoned. And the dude loved crime, man. From 1951 to 1967, he was arrested on everything, from like male theft, forgery, burglary, several times on running prostitutes. And again, so that's kind of an important note for what's gonna happen later. The dude is, you know, becoming a professional manipulator

of women. 1957 Charles Mom informs him that Rosalie's living with another man, Charles tries to escape. You're gonna find his woman by stealing a car right before he has a parole hearing because he's a criminal goddamn genius. He's given five years probation. Rosalie files for divorce. Well, that's good for Rosalie.

1958, Charles and Rosalie are officially divorced and rather than be a dad again, Charles decides to pimp one 16 year old girl and live off the money of the parents of another young girl, among other, you know, academic scholarly endeavors. And in 1959, he marries a young prostitute. He's been pimping. Candy Stevens has another son, Charles Luther Manson. So we get our third Charles Manson. He also abandons this kid when he goes back to prison. What happened if you're curious to those other tutorials, Mansons? Well, the first killed himself in 1993, not shocked,

just based on being abandoned. I mean, how much did that suck for yourself, the same? When the fucking swastika dude, the fucking lunatic, like when he is like, nah, and you're not good enough for me to raise you, like Jesus, one thing to be abandoned by your dad, but to be abandoned by Charles Manson. Well, that sucks.

And the other ones whereabouts are totally unknown. What's, you know, good for the mom on that one, for like not giving it into any media pressure to, I mean, that's social suicide, you know, if you let people know that your son's father is Charles Manson. 1960 Manson is apprehended for suspicion of violation of the Man Act,

which is when they would transport women or underage girls across state lines for prostitution, other fluid acts. Fancy charge with some fraud bullshit and goes back to prison for probation violation. 1961 he's transported from Southern California penal system to McNeil Island prison up in Washington state in the Puget Sound. His mom, too little too late, but she moves up to Seattle to be close to him, you know. I guess better than abandon him again as the new wife does. She'll divorce Charles in 1963 while he's still in prison. And 1961 is important. It's a pivotal year for Charles. Because that's when he learns to play guitar and what a backstory this guy has.

From another inmate, Alvin Creepy Carpice. And that's his real nickname. I didn't add the Creepy. It was apparently given to this guy for his sinister smile. Creepy Carpus was a Canadian born Lithuanian gangster who was one of three leaders of the Barker Carpus gang of the 1930s. One of only four men to ever be given the title of public enemy number one by the FBI. The other three being people you probably heard of, John Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, and Babyface Nelson. So Creepy Carpus was in there too. All killed, all three of the other ones killed

before being captured. Maybe that's why they became more infamous in death. Creepy Carpus also, you know, somewhat famous, I guess, for he spent the more time in Alcatraz than any other prisoner, 26 years. Well, all creepy carpests who did get released in 1969 had a couple of successful book tours in Canada about his earlier criminal exploits.

Eventually died, lived in Spain. Oh, oh, creepy, could play a mean guitar. And he taught Charlie how to play. Said Charlie picked it up, quick, had a good voice. This musical talent paved the way for the Manson family a little bit later. And by the way, you can listen to some Charles Manson songs on iTunes and Spotify. There's one album that comes up on each of you just search his name.

YouTube videos as well. Not actually bad. Not actually bad. I'm going to play this out with a little Charles Manson at the very end of this episode. Kind of the song he was most known for. Look at your game girl. I think that's the one, I remember a little bit later that Guns and Roses actually covered

on that spaghetti incident or whatever the fuck that weird B-side album was of theirs. Anyway, 66, 67, Manson transferred back down to Terminal Island Prison in San Pedro for his eventual release on March 21, 1967. By the time he got out, he'd spent more than half of his 32 years incarcerated. Allegedly, was still used to living in prison. He actually requested to stay when initially granted his release.

Oh, and hindsight, should have granted him that request. Should have fucking kept him in there. Shit's gonna get real weird the next couple years. April 1967, within a few weeks of his release from prison, Charles has headed to San Francisco. He's now a longtime man. He started the formation of what would become the Manson family, meeting Berkeley librarian, Mary Bruner, the sexy librarian, who clearly has a thing for bad boys,

23 year old Manson, or the 23 year old, let's Manson move in with her. And I'm guessing have an insane amount of hippie meets dude who's been in prison for a long time, free love sex. Charles also may have gotten Mary Bruner pregnant, and she had a son, Valentin Michael, what a hippie name, in April 1968. But with a whole kind of free love thing, no paternity tests, Charles has never been confirmed as the dad, but probably at least has three kids.

May 1967, barely a month into his living with Mary. This dude, he does have some fucking game, picks up 18-year-old Lynette squeaky-from, convinces Mary to let Lynette move in with them. What a fucking horny dude, man. He's fresh out of prison. And again, we're talking about game. The guy has no employment prospects. He's five foot two.

He's scrawny. He already looks like a fucking homeless lunatic and he's got two young hot chicks. And he's just getting started. And out hitchhiking that summer, he meets a preacher. Check the story. This is the craziest him picking up a girl. Talk about charisma this guy had.

In a cult leader type way. He's out hitchhiking the summer 67. He meets up a preacher, Dean Morehouse, who ends up inviting him home for dinner and even give Charlie, gives him a piano because he, you know, appreciates the guy's musical talent. And apparently, you know, it's fun. Some tale about, you know, if only he had these opportunities to be a musician, he does have musical aspirations, which we're going to get into in a little bit. He takes, He takes the piano, he ends up trading it for a Volkswagen microbus. That's a wizard level hippie move right there.

Someone gives you a free piano, you fucking exchange it for a microbus. God damn. And as a con in this dude out of a piano isn't enough, check this shit out. He sweet talks the preacher's 16 year old daughter into running off with him, Dean the preacher vows to kill Charles Manson. Charles then meets up with Dean, calms him down, gets him to drop LSD, stays with him and his wife in the house for a few weeks,

long enough for the preacher's wife to get sick of his shit and leave. The dude doesn't kick Charles out at this point. I'm like, what a charismatic motherfucker man. I know it's messed up, but a little bit of a plots. A little bit of a plots. Okay.

A little bit of insight into how this dude got people to kill for him. Dude could sell portraits to the blind, to blind people who hate art. I don't know, Jesus Christ. Summars 67. More troubled young girls follow. 19 year old Patricia Crenwinkel

and 20 year old Susan Atkins who Manson meets in the Hayesbury district while he's playing guitar they're joining the family now fall a 67 Charles Paxley ladies into a Volkswagen micro bus you know the fucking the piano bus moves to LA six months out of the joint six months and And he has a bus of hot. He has a bus of hot young chicks who have dedicated their lives to him. He tries to make connections in the music world.

He's offering his girls his bait to dudes, like he's pimping these girls out essentially. He thinks they can help him get some music contacts. The family is growing. They wander around LA and to Panga, scrounging food from dumpsters when money gets tight. I mean, just full on hippie cult mode. Charlie, he gets his first record company audition, three-hour session. Doesn't get signed, makes more connections. And March 1968, a couple of demands and family

girls meet Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys, who picks them up hitchhiking on the sunset strip. Charlie and the girls moving with Dennis and meet LA Scencers like producer, big record exec Terry Melcher. Summer 1968, Charlie does more studio sessions now, through his beach boys connections, hoping for a record deal with the beach boys label. Brian Wilson apparently isn't impressed. Thank God. The Manson family, I imagine what this guy would have done if he would have been given some fame. Who knows how many more if he would have been given some fame, who knows how many more people he would have killed. I don't know. Or maybe it would have been happy.

I don't know, maybe it would have been better. But anyway, Brian Wilson's not impressed. And the Manson family, now a couple of dozen, they moved to Spawn Ranch because they've been actually living along with the Beach Boys. Manson family was living with the Beach Boys for a while. But they moved to Spawn Ranch in summer 1968,

a movie set owned by the elderly George Spawn, uh, who's sex sessions with uh, Squeaky From is, is what gave her the nickname Squeaky. Gross. Uh, the more I researched this episode, the more I understand why America's been fascinating with this guy. I just, I just keep having to reread things, look up other sources to make sure it happened. And all this seems so fucking over the top and outlandish. Like most guys have trouble enough wooing one hot girl at a time. Let's do that a heron. He's Rubin Elbows with record producers

and famous musicians. He's living with the Beach Boys. He's recording music. You know, he was driving like Dennis's Rolls Royce around and stuff at this time, all without a high school degree and not even out of prison a year. And he's five foot two and looks completely insane.

September 1968. Beach Boys record Manson song Sees 2 Exist, which Dennis Wilson has revised and retitled Never Learn Not to Love for their next album 2020. It comes out in December as a B side to Bluebirds over the mountain, which peaks on the charts as number 61. Manson had to have been stoked to get this recorded, but apparently he wasn't very happy that Dennis revised the lyrics, revised the music, didn't give him proper writing credit, confronted Dennis. I guess he wanted to kill Dennis and Dennis beat the shit out of him. How great is that?

We're again talking about flying the wall to watch one of the Beast Boys, Beach Boys, Beach Boys beat the shit out of Charles Manson. Okay, so so much shit is gonna happen in 1969 that we need to exit out of this time-sook timeline, lay some groundwork, then take another march through that summer. Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely. 1969, the year of Manson. All right, the flower power culture of San Francisco and the mid late 60s. Man, let's get into it. Hate Ashbury. Let's talk about the summer of love, the infamous

summer of love. Okay, so before we, again, before we go further, we need to go back to the culture of the Bay area that Manson moved to when he was released from prison in spring of 67. Yeah, 1967 is the summer of love. And that summer, roughly like 100,000 young beatniks and hippies, youth disillusioned with Vietnam, their disillusioned with their parents, rigid ideals of God and country. And they all converge on this hate asperry district of San Francisco

to experiment with drugs, experiment with sex. They want to challenge the status quo, the previous generation, they want to redefine themselves. The timing was uncanny, you know, with Manson's release. So he's released into the epicenter of this counter-culture revolution where everyone is questioning everything. He's surrounded by tens of thousands of young people looking for something to believe in. People who are also taking a shitload of hallucinogenic drugs. These are people who are extremely curious about religion,

spirituality, who are very open to new ideas and very suspicious of traditional values. You know they're looking for something new. And Charles Manson was something fucking new. And his followers didn't see him as being institutionalized as a negative. His backstory is a positive. This dude was a victim of an unjust system.

A system they wanted to change. And a system that he had refused to let break him. He's kind of a counterculture hero, you know. And he was old enough to be a father figure to these young hippie girls who were estranged from their own fathers for going against their dads' values and their dads' wishes and joining this counterculture revolution. So it was like, it was the perfect storm

for a fast-talking career criminal. A dude with his own mommy issues, the drove him to want a new family also. The girls wanted a new dad, he wanted a new family, and it happened. And so let's get to know this family. This is the Manson family. Let's start with Mary Bruner.

First Manson family member, the 23 year old Berkeley librarian, I mentioned earlier, and again, probably the dad of Valentin Michael, who was known by the family as Poo Bear. Of course he was. Of course he was. That's what a hippie cult named a baby. Poo Bear. Okay. Bruno never served time for involvement in the 1969 killings, but only because she testified against the other family members. But a weird thing where she testified against them, but somehow was considered remaining as far as being loyal to them.

And I don't know, it's a whole mess. She was still brainwashed. But in 1971, she and the other family members did steal a bunch of weapons. They planned a hijack, a plane, and use it as leverage to get manned and the other families out of prison. So she does serve some prison a little bit later. They even have like a shootout with the police.

She spent six years. She's paroled in 77. Squeaky from. The net squeaky from said an interview. The first thing Charles said to her was, so your dad kicked you out of the house, huh? That's what pulled her in. Someone who understood being abandoned and rejected

and he did understand that. So she was 18 when they met one of the first members of the family, always wondered where the name squeaky came from. I explained earlier, cell gross. From having sex with a 80 year old half blind George Spawn who said that was like the noise they made when he was like pinch her thigh, she would squeak. Squeaky was fascinated by Manson, the way his mind worked. And she became really well known after Manson and some of their family went to jail for the 1960, nine murders. She was never charged

with that. She wasn't active in those killings, but she did try to assassinate President Gerald Ford, 1975 with a Colt 45 pistol. And this is a little funny side now during the trial. She also threw an apple at the prosecutor while he was recommending the lengthy prison sentence for her knocked the glasses off his face.

So hey squeaky, nice shot. How fucking cool is that? She's also currently out of prison. She was paroled 2009 at the age of 61. She's living in an upstate New York. So Squeaky's up there with her biker boyfriend somewhere up in upstate New York. Patricia Cranwinkle, one of the most active members during the murder spreep, Pat, as they would call her,

amongst other things. She was the third girl to join Squeaky and Mary, known already as Charlie's Girls, that would have made for a very different Charlie's Angel movie, some kind of mashup between Charlie's Angels and Oliver Stone's natural born killers. She was 19 when she joined the family. She was mesmerized by Charlie in quote,

made love to him on the first night, crying when he told me I was beautiful. God, he knew a mark when he saw one, didn't he? Remember, this dude is a former Pimp professional manipulator of women. Check out this quote about Patricia's early life with Charlie and the girl. She says, quote, we were just like wood nymphs and wood creatures. We would run through the woods with flowers in our hair and Charles would have a small flute. That is, oh my god, that's like out of like a crazy hippie stereotype fantasy.

Like they're out naked in the woods, he's playing a flute, he's telling them their dad don't understand them, they're all fucking literally got flowers in their hair, drop an acid, and yeah. Oh my God, and in the last two years, after that, they would transition into carving people up with a knife and right and shit on the walls in their blood.

My how things change. So all three of these girls listed so far, Pat Mary Squeaky. They're all so beautiful. That's something that makes it more surreal to me. Young beautiful women, these peace-loving forest-nimp hippies that suddenly would turn murderous.

Patricia is still in prison for her role in the 1969 murders. Then you got Leslie Venhout and Venhout 19 years old, when she met Manson and joined the family in 1968, along with Susan Atkins, Patricia Crenwinkel, all three girls are in prison, or in the famous prison photo,

which I'll put on the website of the three Manson girls on trial in 1970 when they all carved X's in their foreheads, to mimic the X Manson carbon to his, because originally it was like an X, like he was removing himself from society. Yeah, I turned it into a swat-skill a little later, because he's lunatic, as if he's not a lunatic for Carvin and ex in his head. Leslie was deemed suitable for parole in the early 2016, but parole was denied, and

she's still in prison for the 69 murders. And this one, she's the homecoming princess killer. She went from being a homecoming princess to part of this delusional felon's harem to being arrested from multiple ultraviolet murders in just a couple years. Susan Atkins, Susan Atkins, formerly known as the, within the family of sexy Sadie, Charlie would have her work as a stripper.

He, Charlie met her at a house party where she was living with some other young hippies when she was 19, late 1967. Within weeks, she'd been living with Charlie and within months she'd believe he was Jesus. Yep, he was convincing. She was also the one who found the family their home, the spawn ranch,

which I'll describe in a little more detail soon, convicted of being a part of eight different family murders. She died in prison in 2009 from brain cancer. Yeah, and I should add, all the Manson family murder convictions, originally they were all gonna be on death row. They were not going to be. They were on death row, but then there was this California changes death penalty in 1972. So that's why these people weren't executed if you're curious. I did crack up and

doing the research that the first photos that popped up of both Susan and Leslie both had a huge cold source on their lips. So Charlie, he fucked them over in so many ways. I mean, it said to them to present for the rest of their lives with Herpes, as a little like, icing on the shit cake. I seen on the Herp cake. Charles Tex Watson, this is Charlie's right hand man. The family had some dudes too.

And you know, Tex was one of the first, he was a former honor student and star football player, college frat boy, who threw a promising life away after flying from LA to visit a frat brother, check out the psychedelic lifestyle of Hollywood and Venice Beach in the 60s. And this dude would become the main muscle for the 69 murders.

He was described as Manson's right-hand man. As I said, Tex actually, he met Manson through the Beach Boys. When he picked up Dennis Wilson, the co-founder, drummer, backup vocalist, and songwriter, the dude who sung lead on the Beach Boys 1965 hit, Do You Want to Dance, a song that peaked at number 12 on Billboard, when he picked him up, Hitch Hiking.

He picked that dude up Hitch Hiking, and took him back to Dennis' home, where Charlie and some of the family were living for a few months in 1968. Think about how fucking weird that is. What a weird culture at that time in the late 60s, you know, in California. Dennis Wilson is hitchhiking and living with a Manson family. This is a founding member of the Beach Boys. They had put out three albums in 1963 alone that charted in the billboard top 10,

including surfing USA. You might have heard of that. Two went gold, one went platinum. Three platinum albums, or sorry, three more gold albums come out in 1964. Two more gold albums in 65. The classic pet sounds platinum album, 1966. They released their 14th studio album, 14th in 1968 called Friends,

an album that received four out of five stars of Rolling Stone. And now in 1967, since 1968, their popularity is declining a little bit as the hippie sounds of the late 60s become more and fad than their kind of pop driven sounds. But these guys were fucking huge, rich, famous, very rich, very famous, and they're hitchhiking.

And they're just hitchhiking around LA. Strange times, man. They'd be like picking up Dan Auerbach of the black keys on Sunset Strip Tomorrow and having him just, you know, he's just like, hey man, do you wanna just live with my mansion for a couple of months? Maybe we could do some sessions?

Insane. Okay. So the other family members, talk about that real quick. So there's the core group, there's Mary Bruner, Squeaky From, Patricia Cranwinkle, let's even out and disillusion young girls, Susan Atkins, and then we got Tex Watten, Watson.

I got pictures of all these on TimeSuck podcast.com under the episode description. So all of you know, these have some people have some involvement in the 69 killings. And then there was others, you know, like Paul Atkins. And I don't know, there was like Catherine, Gypsy, Cher. All this crazy stuff. There was this guy, Bobby, all this crazy stuff. There was this guy, Bobby, Bruce Ol,

a dude who has a website, Bobby, Bruce Solay, there we go. And that has better maintained in most comics, I know, where you can download free tracks. He scored the music to a 1979 film called Lucifer Rising. You can get the album on iTunes. How do people do shit like that? Like, there's scoring movies from prison. But all these weirdos were living together 1969 at the

spawn ranch. The spawn ranch was an old movie set 500 acres just north of Malibu. We're old western films and episodes like Bonanza, Lone Ranger, Zoro, and so forth film in the early 1900s. And the family kind of they helped they would help out the 80-year-old pervert slash dairy farmer, you know George Spawn you know, keep up the ranch in exchange for letting them live there and, you know, have an access to the young women. And they turned it, and there's like, you know, footage in this Charlie, Charles Manson documentary from the Spawn Ranch, you know, they're living on this beat Nick Paradise. They're playing music, they're party, and they're having orgies.

They're also hiding stolen cars and shit like that, the paid for the lifestyle. I mean, you know, Charles is a thief. And yeah, so that's the scene, party, music ambitions, parental and social disillusionment. Young girls looking for someone to love them. Young dudes looking for a good time and young girls to make love too. A lot of drugs. And a charismatic pimp run in the whole show. A master manipulator who got his followers away from society got some Lego of all their

old beliefs through LSD experimentation, through constant fantasy. He created blank canvases out of these young hippies, you know, broke them down and then started to paint his own vision upon them, his helter, skilter philosophy, which I'm going to explain later is the fucking best part of this episode. God damn, I didn't know how crazy it was. Initially, at the ranch, it was all fun and games with mansion, but then you got darker. It's time went on because he's a dark soul man. Remember his childhood, remember all the incarceration.

And so like the longer they were on the ranch, the darker her became and the fun and games gave way to questioning right and wrong, to questioning life and death, you brainwashing these people. And he went from people who would follow him for adventure in a good time to people who would kill for him.

So let's get into the murders. Time for another time, sub timeline. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time, sub timeline. March 1969, Manson's pissed that he hasn't become a huge rock and roll star. He wanted to be a huge, like the Beatles huge. He had met big time record producer Terry Melcher and Melcher even auditioned him for a possible recording contract, possible documentary about his music and the family, but basically

came to think of Manson as violent and insane after watching him get in a fight to spawn ranch with Ranchan and ever hearing about him fight Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys. He finds Manson to be what he is, mentally unstable. Good fucking call, they sever ties. But Manson thinks he knows what the dude lives. He's been to the guy's house, a place where he was living with Candice Bergen when they met, the actors who would go on to play Murphy Brown. So Manson goes to Melchor's house on Cielo Drive,

unaware that Melchor has already moved out and he shows up in the middle of a party, given by one of the new residents, Sharon Tate, very bad twist of fate for her. July 1969, money from a music career is not coming in and Manson's getting desperate for cash to keep his family interested and sticking around. Along with text Watson, he sets up a quote drug burn, making a deal to sell 25 kilos of pot that he doesn't have,ustling $2,500 out of a black drug dealer named Bernard Lots of Papa Crow.

What a great nickname. Watson takes the money, runs, and when Crow demands his money back, Manson arranges a meeting at Crow's apartment, and then shoots lots of papa in the chest. The violence has begun, fortunately, lots of papa lives. What if you can't, you can't kill lots of papa with one shot and that's too much papa.

You gotta shoot a lot of papa, I don't know, 15, 20 times man, you gotta kill all the papa. So much, I just pictured that guy, I haven't looked at a picture up, but a picture of lots of papa is a dude who wore a lot of fur hats and said, jive turkey a whole bunch. Okay, so, and that comes into,

this gets, by the way, Manson really paranoid. After he shoots this guy and thinks he kills him, he thinks that this guy is a member of the Black Panther movement and he becomes convinced that like, that angry Black men are going to kill him for that. This feeds his health or skeletal vision later. July 25th, 1969, Bobby BiuUSILA, the fucking guy with the website

from prison right now, scoring films, a friend of Charlie's current, you know, you can prison musician, gets burned in another drug deal gone bad. This one involving Gary Hinman and a biker gang, the straight, the straight Satan's. What a fucking name that is. Why would you ever fuck with the straight Satan's?

Burn for a thousand, that's just like a death wish. Oh my God, burn for a thousand dollars. Bucillay goes to Hinman's home with a handgun, a knife, and a few family accomplices, Tex, Bruner, Bruce Davis, Manson. I guess Manson cuts off, Hinman's ear after Bucillay shoots him dead at Kin's right's political piggy on a wall in Hinman's blood. Shits escalating, man. They're cutting up members of the straight Titans.

Sunday, August 9th, 1969, the Tate murders at CLO Drive. Under the orders of Charles Manson, Tex Watson, along with Susan Atkins, Patricia Cranwinkle, and another Manson family member, Linda Kasbian, who would later avoid prison time by being a key witness for the state prosecution, invaded the home of Sharon Tate and her husband, Roman Polanski, director of slash pedophile. Polanski was a way in London filming, probably fucking didlin' kids.

Tate was home with some friends. Manson had told the four family members to destroy the house and everyone in it as gruesomely as you can as a message to producer Terry Melcher who he believed owned the home. This guy is not taking rejection in the music business well at all. Tate was eight and a half months pregnant at the time, just returned home from a late dinner in El Coyote, a popular little restaurant spot in LA with three friends, her former lover and hairstylist J.C. Bering, the man who first, he was the guy who first actually introduced martial artist Bruce Lee to the acting world and just people everybody was connected in L.A. at the time.

White check, Frankowski, an aspiring Polish screenwriter friend of Romans with a fucking crazy Polish name. Frankowski's lover Abigail Folger, hearest to the Folger coffee fortune. More than waking up, there's some kind of bullshit jingle. Full J. More. I'm getting folders, little jingle confused in my brain with, for some reason, the GI Joe. More than meets the eye. I don't know. Anyway, choose a big deal. This before Starbucks came, a lot of people were into folders. Very wealthy young lady. Around midnight, text climbs at a telephone pole,

cuts off phone access to the home, then the four family members climb over a bushy embankment, text jumps over first, over the ground of the home, 18-year-old student Stephen Parent drives up to the gate to leave, he'd been visiting the caretaker, a friend of his, sees the man's and family, sees texts,

texts shoots him four times in the chest, for being in the wrong place, the wrong fucking time. Text, text then sneaks into the house. After midnight, cuts to an open window screen, quite let's into other family members, Susan and Patricia to the front door, Linda stays outside, acts as a lookout for a kowt ski, had been asleep on the couch, wakes up and is kicked in the head by text who tells him, quote, I'm the devil and I'm here to do the devil's business. Wow. To say that, I mean, you're gonna kill somebody,

you're breaking up with the kill, but then also do you fucking need to say that to him? Jesus, I'm the devil and I'm here to do the devil's business. You know that guy had a lot of drugs in his system. When you say that, that's some cocaine, that's the cocaine talking. I don't even, I don't know, and I don't know why I didn't come across them doing coke.

But I feel like that's, I don't feel like you say that sober. I feel like that's, that is literally like a 100% coke speaking right there. I'm the devil. And I came here to do the devil's business. Susan and Patricia, and they did. Susan and Patricia find the other three occupants, round them up into the living room, JC Bringtell's texts and the others to take it easy on Sharon, who's pregnant. And for Sticken his neck out, Tex stabs him and shoots him in the face and all

hell breaks loose. Freikowski runs out the door to escape, but he's shot twice by Tex Watson in the back, pounced on, stabbed, checked us out, a total of 51 times. 51 times by Susan Atkins, that's way too much stabbing. Folger ran out the back door, is run down by Patricia Cranwinkle, who stabs her 28 times, very stab happy, the Manson family. During the stabbing, apparently the victim, Folger,

did not cry out, have a good morning with Folger, whatever the jingle was, stop, I'm already dead, which, thank God they didn't use that for the jingle. I know that's very fucked up for me to say, Folger, stop, I'm already dead, which thank God they didn't use that for the jingle. I know that's very fucked up for me to say. Fulger, stop, I'm already dead. I feel kind of guilty, say that actually. Back in the house, Sharon Tate, pleased to be allowed to live, save her baby, but the killers

have none of it. Man, this is a devil. They're doing the devil's business. Susan and Tate, stabbed Tate 16 times, five of the wounds fatal in and of themselves, according to the Corners report report baby does not survive before leaving the family writes pig on the walls in tates blood Monday August 10th 1969 the lobby on come murders at wavily drive very next night man's and joins the family on the hunt for some reason he didn't feel like text and the others had inspired enough terror the night before. All the devil talk and writing on blood, you know, he's taking it easy on him.

And when I explain the true reason for the killings in a little bit, you're going to understand that man's in his, he is stark, ravi-mad at this point. He's insane, he's disillusioned by his music career, and he's full fucking maniac mode. And all his followers have lost any sense of reality whatsoever. So they drive around the Los Files, Silver Lake area of LA, essentially looking for some pigs who deserve it in their mind, and not by a slaying for police, that's just in their mind like people who are part of the problem, pigs.

And they end up in a neighborhood where they had been to a party the year before. They arrive at the house of a successful grocery company owner, Leno LaBianca, and his wife Rosemary. And that night, really fucking stuck to be them. Testimony varied from the family members regarding when it actually took place at night, but we do know these couple was initially tied up. They were robbed. Watson then left the home after instructing, or I'm sorry, not what Manson then left the home after instructing others to kill the couple. And then it looks like text Watson started stabbing Leno. Rosemary tries to escape in the melee. Lesley Van Houten starts stabbing Rosemary.

It's helped by Patricia Cranewinkle, whose arm apparently wasn't too tired from all of the stabbing she had the night before. This lady must have been struggling viciously because the two women stabbing her wasn't enough to kind of keep her under control. So Tex, him and his strong stab in hand, they help out. Rosemary ends up getting stabbed total of 41 times.

They loved overkill, literally. After she'd been thoroughly stabbed, Tex returns to stab Leno some more. They fucking couldn't get enough of the goddamn stabbing. Total of 26 times must have been less because of fatigue. Maybe I guess he was tired at that point from all the rosemary stabs. He does work up the energy to carve the word war into the dude's stomach.

Apparently he's an artist of sorts now and murder is his medium. These guys are fucked up. The gang gets a little more creative with the blood writings this time. They write death to pigs, rise, a misspelled, helter, Skelter on the fridge. You know, no one's accusing them of being geniuses.

And then they take back off to spawn ranch. And with that, we conclude the second of two time suck timelines. Good job, soldier. Made it back. Barely. Okay. So when it was all said and done, Manson, Watson, Atkins, Cringwigl found guilty for seven counts of murder and one count of conspiracy. Leslie Van Houten charged with two counts of murder, one count of conspiracy for her role in the La Bianca killings.

Cassidyen, in exchange for immunity, testifies for the prosecution to explain the events that occurred during each vicious crime. Now, before I get into why they did this, I would like to mention that there was a few other random murders associated with the family, but nothing is calculated, and it's gruesome, it's what we've covered. Okay, so why did they do it? Holy shit, this is what I really didn't know about Manson. This is a fucking so insane. They did it because of Manson's Helter Skelter vision. Manson, through his own interpretations

of some revelations, stuff from the Bible, and what he thought were messages coming from the Beatles from their Helter Skelter song, especially, he thought a race war was about to break out between Whites and Blacks. Yes, you heard that right. And he started talking about that on New Year's Eve, 1968, to his family. So he started getting about that on New Year's Eve, 1968, to his family. So he started getting real frustrated, started getting real dark and even weirder than it already was.

And by 1969, by the summer, he had really kind of formulated his idea of Helter Skeletor into this really unique and insane vision. He thought it was his destiny to create an album of music with his family with hidden messages in the music that would inspire people to start a race war and also to come kind of hide with him, which I'm going to explain. He thought young white hippies would hear these messages, join the family, mostly young white

hot female hippies. And then the young militant black men denied enough young white hippie hot women who they just begun to get a taste of You know with a with the the recent changes as far as blacks dating white people more they'll be so fucking pissed off That he was hiding some of these white women from him that they would start killing whites They would be getting to a murderous horny rage and it gets even better The blacks would then proceed to kill all of the whites, all of them in the world with the exception of Nancy, Manson, and his new expanded family. Why weren't they killed?

Oh, this is the best part. Because they were going to retreat into a secret city hidden beneath Death Valley, California that awaited them. Manson had figured out the location through, again, his interpretation of relations. And they would just stay down there. It would stay down there. Let the black people call all the remaining white people, all part of the establishment anyway, all fucking pigs.

And then Manson, he thought that once the above ground whites were all killed by the blacks, that the black people would be unable to properly manage their new world. They wouldn't be able to be like, you know, they didn't have the resources to figure out how to kind of run things. And then, oh, hoax, focus. The Manson family comes up from their underground, uh, fucking death Valley city. And the blacks would allow

them to be like, thank God you guys are here because we don't know how to run shit. Please let us run it. Or you guys can run it. And then Manson says regarding this, and I apologize for the language, but this is a direct quote. Then we would go scratch his fuzzy head and kick him in the butt until him to go pick the cotton and be a good nigger. Oh my god! What the fuck? How much acid do you have to take to make any of this sound like a remotely good idea? Think about that. They're on the ranch. And these hippies and Manson's like, yeah. And then, you know, was looking hard. And we wait, and the music gets out. And then the war starts. And then he gets to know, he's just so diluted

and racist and crazy. And they went along with this. Oh, wow. And there's pages of pages of Manson's interpretations of Beatles lyrics and his interpretations of revelations, by the way, way too much to get into this already lengthy episode. And again, I apologize for even saying that where I just feel like I hate it when it's like I'm reading a quote and then I hide the word. It's like you're going to add the word in your head.

Okay, and so that's why none of the people convicted of the tape and lobbyon comers have ever gotten out of parole. I used to wonder like, well, why are they still in prison? Because it was so, so brutal and so insane. It's like when you kill people thinking that you're going to start a race war that you will hide from in an underground city, you don't get to, you don't get to ever come out of prison again. You don't get to ever come out. You are always a risk of society at that point forever and always. Oh, man, I wonder how many casual, like kind of hippie, you know, followers left the spawn range on 69. I bet like they came there for the orgies and stuff, you know, had to have been a lot

of, and then when shit started getting into the Helter's Skelter vision, they had to jet, you know, just conversation like, hey man, this is fun orgy, that's night. Yeah, what was up with that Helter's Skelter shit? I don't know. Yeah, it kind of lost me. We started talking about the underground city, you know. And why would they agree to be slaves again after proving they could kill way more white people Then then the amount of us that would come out of hiding it just I don't know. Let's just let's just get out

Hey Charlie. Yeah great party bud. Love the helter's shelter shit, dude. Fuck you fucking get it Ah, I always thought that Beatles song was a little more the Meezy eye. Haha sure. I'd love some more acid Weird times man. Weird time, no idea how weird it was. Oh, let's get into some top five takeaways. Time, shock, top five takeaways. Number one, Manson's Pimp game was and is stronger than yours. Since time we got a jail of 21, he's either been incarcerated or having sex with a variety of young women.

They're young women who still want Charles Manson inside of them today. Attractive women. One is Elaine Burton. I'll have a picture on the website too. A woman who started communicating with him when she came across some of his writings about the environment when she was 17.

She immediately saved up money, moved to California so she could visit him in prison and tried marrying him at the age of 24. This is recently, and she's actually kind of hot. How much does that suck for the 25-year-old dude who can't get any women to date him? Let alone be in a relationship with him, that we're Charles Manson, it's crazy as he looks now,

and with everything he's done, somehow still getting girls, even though he's in car straight. Okay, well, number two. The Beach Boys recorded a Manson song. Also a year later on the album, The Spaghetti Incident, that's what I was talking earlier, Guns n and Roses recorded another Manson song, look at your game girl.

Not easy to walk the murderous cult leader, slash folk singer, songwriter, tightrope, but Manson briefly pulled it off. And again, you should check out some of his tunes, just not curious to any of their YouTuber Spotify. It's worth a listen and they're like, not as bad as I thought they were gonna be. Yeah, you'll hear what at the end.

Number three, the best way not to raise another Charles Manson, it's not bring a kid into the world with no father and be a prostitute mother who abandoned her child after returning from prison. The elderly didn't adult and the damage is done. So parents, all parents, make sure your kids know about birth control before they become sexually active. Number four, don't pick up hitchhikers.

Don't pick them up. Ever, a lot of the shit would have never happened if Dennis Wilson hadn't picked up a couple of Manson family hitchhikers, don't pick him up ever. A lot of the shit would have never happened if Dennis Wilson hadn't picked up a couple Manson family hitchhikers in 1968 and if Tex Watson hadn't picked up a hitchhiking Dennis Wilson so weird a little after that. Number five, Manson believed that he could write and record an album that would ignite a race war that he would then hide from in an underground city only to emerge with thousands of beautiful white, heavy women and then rule over black people

who had just gotten killing all the other white people and got other people to believe this shit too. In a weird way, nothing makes me want to get in a time machine and visit the late 60s California more than that fact. Holy shit, the times were wild and the drugs must have been incredible. Time shut, tough, five takeaways. Alright, so there you go. There you go. That's Manson, man. When I watch interviews this dude, I don't like him, I don't respect him. You know, at all of course he was a monster,

but I also, it's weird, I don't despise him like I despised Ted Bundy for example. He doesn't seem evil in the same way Bundy did. Maybe that's, you know, just the power of his charisma. In a weird way, Bundy seemed like evil and carnate, just cold and calculated. Manson seems just like broken and confused. He almost pity him somehow. You know, like Bundy, his dad was never in the picture, but unlike Bundy, he had much less childhood stability. Mom went to prison for a five-year stretch. He worked at the prostit off-nond, ponded him off in relatives, put him in all boys, lived in school, rejected his pleas, lived with her, their foster care, all that stuff.

He's getting raped and beat, you know, in some of the places he's at. Had a hard childhood by any standard. He said something in a Diane Sawyer interview that actually really stuck to me. He said, the only thing my mother taught me was that everything she said was a lie. And I learned never to believe anyone about anything.

Man, there's the seed. Clearly a deep mistrust of authority and a hatred women were woven into the identity forming period of his childhood. By the time he was an adult, this little guy, five foot two, clearly no more than about 110, 120 pounds had to survive in prison, had to learn how to manipulate bigger, strong, or inmates

in order to survive, had to think fast. And then you throw that shit out into the epicenter of the counterculture revolution in 1967, the summer love, something weird was bound to happen and it surely did. Manson, you know, he was something America hadn't seen before. He wasn't gonna kidnap him, kill your daughter. It was almost worse.

He was going to kill America's young daughters in a different way. He was gonna convince them to kill on his behalf. Somehow that's scarier, man. And Helter Skelter, man. Helter Skelter. What the fuck? Well, some kind of Helter Skelter is coming for you, Charlie. You are not much longer for this world. You're sick in prison after reading all this man. I hope for a variety of reasons that you just get it all with and die. And with that, thank you for listening everybody. Thank you for the wonderful emails with and die. And with that, thank you for listening, everybody.

Thank you for the wonderful emails and I too was reviews. I read everyone. It helps a lot. The more people that listen to this, the more time I can justify spending on it and I love doing this. I love it. I want to just keep getting better and better. Just build this and see where the fuck it takes all of us. This crazy path of curiosity we're on. Thanks for continuing to spread the word. Last review I saw actually mentioned flat earth theory, and I've gotten numerous emails about flat earth theory before, so that is next week's topic. So if you have any respect for science,

you will really get a kick out of me making fun of these cooks, I hope. Hilariously uninformed and childless in their explanation of how the world is indeed totally flat. Just a frisbee hanging out in space. And again, photos of the major players from this episode are posted under the episode description at timesackpodcast.com. And it's only fitting that Charles Manson himself take us out of this episode with little late 60s, maybe little Dennis Wilson influenced. late 60s, maybe Lil Dennis see those real look at your game girl Look at your game girl

What a mad delusion Living in that confusion Frust frustration and doubt Can you ever live without the game? Thanks for listening everybody talking next week on another Time Suck. Thank you. Thank you.