Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 194 - Killer Kids

Episode Date: June 1, 2020

Why do some kids kill? Digging into that difficult and dark question today. Is it due to how they're raised? The type of brain they're born with? Playing too many violent video games? Gonna take a rational look at the roots of some irrational murders. We look at a lot of crime statistics, psychological studies, and numerous examples of kids who've killed. Learn what red flags to look for, today, on Timesuck. Hail Nimrod! We've donated $5,800 this month to the Alzheimer's Association. The Alzheimer’s Association leads the way toward ending Alzheimer’s and all other dementia. To find out more, visit https://www.alz.org/ Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/42jHZQ9e4KE Merch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ Try out Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna become a Space Lizard? We're over 8500 strong! Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast Sign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits

Killer kids, that is the disturbing topic for today. Doesn't get a lot darker than that. What can be worse than some psycho killing some kid? Arguably it's when that psycho doing the killing is also a kid. How do you deal with that? Definitely easier to be furious at a 40-year-old for killing a kid than it is to be furious with a six-year-old.

Having your kid murdered every parent's worst nightmare. Can't imagine how difficult that is to emotionally get through. And I would have to think it's even harder to process when the person you're enraged at is also a little kid. Why do kids kill? Were they born destined to be a killer? Did a horrible home life turn them into a killer? Some combination of both.

We'll examine the nature versus nurture debate today. We'll also look at the argument that violent movies, video games, music, and other media is turning kids into killers. Is there any truth to that? We found some stats. We found stats on all kinds of stuff, and also plenty of bone-chilling examples of kids

who have killed. It's a wild ride today. On this psychotic and pediatric is fuck true crime edition of Time Suck. This is Michael McDonald, and you're listening to Time Suck, your're listening to Time Sun. You're listening to Time Sun. Happy Monday in Hale Nimrod, meat sacks. What's going on, Lucifina?

You're looking good. Summer, it works for you. Praise the motjangles. Don't shake too many hands these days, triple M. You're no spring chicken. I'm Dan Cummins, minstrel of Mayhem, Dr. Adoum, Nimrod's finger puppet, the suck master, and you are listening to Time Suck.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the recent ratings and reviews, so many new suckers, an army of thoughtful misfits is being built. I love it. Welcome to the Cult of the Curious. Donating an unknown, excuse me, amount of money to the Alzheimer's Association this month, thanks to our space lizards, it will be at least $5,800. Had to record this before all the Patreon money came in this month, so don't know the exact

amount this week. For this episode, the Alzheimer's Association is leading the way to end Alzheimer's and all other dementia by accelerating global research, driving risk reduction, early and early detection, and maximizing quality care and support. This is something all of us are either facing now with ourselves or with relatives, or very likely we'll be facing with ourselves or relatives going forward at some point. It's a very worthy cause. Go to www.alz.org for more info. That's alz.org. Link in the episode description. Hail, remember Nimrod. You get it. Toxic Thoughts stand up to our still on hold. Hopefully, the

August tour dates are happening. They're looking likely. I should know more in the next two weeks. Hopefully, something, you know, that's hopefully definitive. I will let you know what I know. New dimensions, time suck T is in the store at BadMagicMarch.com today. You non-spacelessers can see what kind of shirt spacelessers have been wearing. The rare T showing up first for spacelessers and then also offered to the rest of time suck. And thank you, spacelessers, for voting in today's topic. Quick shout outs to all the meat sacks hurting right now over the recent death of George Floyd.

In Minnesota, been a lot of protests, a lot of riots. You long time listeners know I support the police. I still do, but this does definitely appear to be a bad cop who I hope goes on trial for murder. I would imagine one of the hardest parts of being a cop is having the public trust you. And nothing erodes that trust like blatant police brutality. It sure seems like that happened here.

Many national police organizations have quickly condemned the actions of officer Derek Chauvin. And that's not normally the case. Usually there's a little bit of pause and then a lot of police chiefs and you know like police fraternities and unions, then they condemn. They were most of them very quick to be like, oh man, this is over the top, this is unreal. A shameful, hopefully the case goes to trial, so it can be properly examined and put before a jury.

And thank you to all the wonderful men and women in blue who would never, ever do that. Please don't take your frustrations out on officers who may despise the actions of this bad cop more than you could probably or I could probably understand. Okay, now let's get started. Let's jump into the light and frivolous topic of today. About time we discussed something inspirational and uplifting, killer kids. You get that with sarcasm, right? Okay, all right, good. How often do kids kill? Do they kill more or less than they used to? Gonna dig into that question soon today. Also gonna look into the nature versus nurture debate,

as I said, when it comes to killer kids, are you destined to be a killer kid at birth, right? Because of genetic programming? Wouldn't that be a huge bummer? If that were 100% true? Congrats, Mr. Smith, little Johnny, has all his fingers, all his toes. No serious physical illnesses.

However, he is going to stab the fuck out of some other kids in the next 10 to 12 years. So good luck with that. Can your environment turn you into a killer? Can you raise a killer? Gonna look into that, but the short answer is kind of. You can definitely greatly increase the odds of raising a killer if you are a terrible parent

living in a terrible neighborhood. What about violence in the media? Is the media to blame? see odds of raising a killer if you are a terrible parent living in a terrible neighborhood. What about violence in the media? Is the media to blame a lot of shitty parents would like to believe that? Hello scapegoat. I'm guessing you've heard the argument many times, violent video games, movies, and music turns kids into killer, but is there any actual merit to that? As I said before, we're going to have some stats to toss your way in that regard that I thought were very thought provoking. Do you do some kids kill because they're not being properly medicated?

Do they kill because of over medication? Gonna look into that. Spoiler alert. We won't have hard answers for everything. Murder is such an extreme crime. What motivates adult killers to commit murder can often remain mysterious, getting to the bottom of what pushes children to kill might even be more difficult to fully comprehend. The reasons seem to, you know, not surprisingly, very quite a bit from kid to kid.

Unfortunately, there is no genetic turn off murderous urges here, switch that we know of. If only there was. But there are patterns that definitely emerge from the vast pool of data gathered on kids who kill and we'll look into those patterns and see what we can learn. We'll also go through numerous examples of kids who have killed, including serial killer kids. We'll look into the crimes and hope to understand their motivations. We'll go over some good news, right?

We can start there. Less kids are killing nowadays in the recent past. There's the answer to that question earlier. Yay! Right, less kids killing nowadays. We'll also look at some bad news though. Kids have not stopped murdering. Negative yay.

Hopefully a lot of parents listening to today's suck will feel a lot better about their own kids, about their own parenting by the end of today's dark. And I think highly informative episode. Maybe your teenager seems to always have a bad hormonally fueled attitude. Maybe it seems like your 12 year old couldn't keep the room clean even if their life depended on it.

Maybe you lay in bed at night and worry about how your 14 year old is gonna ever, gonna be able to hold down a job when you consider how terrible of a job they do when it comes to chores. Just put the dishes in the dishwasher, just do it. It's almost as easy as setting them on a counter. I just learned that recently though.

How do they not have time to mose along once a week? Why do they act like taking one minute to take out the trash, you know, once a day is an ordeal on par with a short prison sense? But are they killing people? No? Well, then your kids will do a lot better. A better job of being decent human beings, decent meat sacks, and the kids will be talking about today. So that's good. If pets in the neighborhood aren't disappearing and you have an stumbled across diary entries full of people to kill lists and detailed murder fantasies, then you might just be doing a great, primal job. If you're raising a kid whose Google search

history doesn't seem like they're definitely about to kill someone, or like might just be doing a great, primal job. If you're raising a kid who's Google search history, doesn't seem like they're definitely about to kill someone or like they just got hired as my research assistant, you might be all right. If you do have some murdery concerns about your brood, at least today's suck will give you more information to help you decide how to deal with those concerns. Now, if you find a P-Pole in Johnny's closet,

let him spy in the sister's room, and you find a diary entry where Johnny goes on and on about how you can't get in trouble for her to someone if no one finds a body. Well, maybe you know today's episode is going to finally convince you to force a little Johnny to get some therapy and stop thinking that all this is just going to blow over. I think, never out. It is extremely rare for a child to commit a serious crime, even more rare for that act to be murdered. Let's start there with the real info. Today, we're talking about extreme exceptions to the rule. When these cases make the news, they fascinate us, meet sacks, and the details of their crimes

remain in the public consciousness long after the trials have ended, partially because they are so rare. Don't think just because we'll go over numerous examples of child murderers today that it's an epidemic far from it. To continue with some good news before we get into the dark heart of this sucks. Serious crime rates for all kinds of crime have gone down, uh, excuse me, crime rates for all kinds of serious crime have gone down over the last few decades. In most cases, they've been halved or better.

Right. Murder in general has become more rare recently. Maybe just maybe all of our violent video games are not turning our world into one big giant murder pit, more on media influencing violent behaviors and kids just a little bit. 1980, the US murder rate was at its highest in decades, 10.2 killings per 100,000 people per year, about 23,000 total murders a year. And the murder rate remained roughly that high during the entire decade. And this is back when kids were playing Pac-Man and not Grand Theft Auto.

During the 80s, the lowest rate was in 1984 at 7.9 murders per capita. The 70s ended with 9.8 per 100,000, I was in 79, averaged about 9.1 murders per 100,000 people for the decade. In 1991, the murder rate was 9.8 people murdered per 100,000, the highest of the 90s. That meant that there were around 24,700 murders in a population of 252 million. Still a lot, but less.

In 2018, with a population of 327 million people, the murder rate fell to about five people per a hundred thousand, resulting in 16,214 total murders. Despite ultra violent movie franchises, like the John Wick movies, love them, and the taken movies, also love them, the die hard movies, get the Kaie mother fucker, and on and on and on. Despite my generation growing up on franchises like the Terminator movies and the Rambo movies,

on and on, overall violence and murder has been going down the past few decades. Half what it was a few decades ago. But you wouldn't guess that based on news headlines. You think the fucking sky is falling because fear sells and the 24 hour news cycle now pushes fear 24 hours a day. So why are murder rates going down?

And short answer is very, very complicated. Some think increased access to better technologies and the increased prosperity that comes with that has a lot to do with less folks resorting to murdery ways these days. For example, today less than 10% of the world subsists in extreme poverty, 200 years ago, about 90% did. Things are better overall.

And because things are better and keep getting better, maybe we'll keep, you know, just with this trend of killing less and less. There's also the free porn theory. Believers in this theory think that crime rates have gone down because of recent increased access to free porn. Back in the 1980s, the only people who had access to truly free pornography were

those of us willing to sneak into our parents bedrooms and find our dads or stepdad stashes. Or those of us willing to dig to the trash to find a neighbor's old porn max. Or the old magazines, the grocery stores or gas stations didn't sell the previous months and we throw it back and hide next to the dumpster. Now everyone with access to the internet, on virtually any phone or computer, can access quality, high-definition porn, and seemingly unlimited quantities. And just a few decades, we've gone from a few people, being able to get old shitty magazines.

We don't need a few nude picks in each one that kind of stink and made you wonder if the smell was your dad's or stepdads or some other random dudes old dried com, which really killed the masturbation experience. To almost everyone, being able to get clean HD porn on sterile devices that they don't even have to hide from their moms or stepmoms in the closet or another beds or in a garage, you know garbage bag, hidden somewhere out in the jerk off woods. You get it.

And some think with so many more dudes jerking off to quality porn and I say dudes because it is usually men who do the murdering FBI statistics state that over 90% of murderers are dudes. Guys, you know, just aren't as sexually frustrated these days. They're less angry and they kill less. Now, who are these some I'm referring to? A full disclosure, me and the scriptkeeper, Zach Flanner. Zach Flanner, and that's it. And maybe Reverend Dr. Joe, Horsecock Paisley, I forgot to talk to him about this before the show, but I'm guessing he's in. Now this series completely based on Zach and I talking about it

and convincing ourselves it's true. It's not based on any hard data whatsoever, pun intended. But it does feel at least partially true, doesn't it? But what about the children? What about this awkward segue? Away from porn and straight to kids I'm trying to pull off. Gosh dang, overall violence is down,

but are kids killing less than they used to? Are they killing more? The phenomenon of juvenile killing other juveniles increased dramatically during the 1980s and early 90s, 940 victims in 1994 in the U.S. compared with 419 80, but then declined. About 500 victims in 1997. From 1985 to 1994, the rate of murder committed by teens aged age 14 to 17 increased 172%. Then killing decreased the rate of children murdered has gone down significantly over the last 25, 30 years, mirror in the same trend for adults. So yay less murdery kids hail Nimrod.

According to the national estimates calculated with data released by the FBI in September 2018, law enforcement agencies across the US made 52,000 violent crime arrests involving youth under the age of 18 and 2017. Compared with 75,000 arrests in 2010, and as many as 150,000 violent arrests for youth per year in the mid 90s. So we went from over 150,000 to 52,000, even though the population has increased. That's fantastic. That's way less violence, actually.

Now let's look at this in a per capita sense, so we're really comparing murder apples to murder apples. When measured in per capita terms, the effect of the 25 year decline in violent crime, more dramatic and clear. In 1993, a peak year for violent crime, police agencies nationwide reported about 13 under age 18 murder arrests

for every 100,000 youths ages 10 to 17. And then the youth rate, a youth arrest rate for murder dropped to just over two murders per 100,000 kids in 2017. Check out those numbers. The per capita rate of kids murdering other kids dropped from 13 per 100,000 to two per 100,000 a drop around of around 79% under 25 years

That's fucking huge and we don't hear about numbers like that enough and we should the world is not Going to hell violent video games not making the world go to shit I hope we never stop beating that drum. I need to constantly remind myself of that because of all the news that I do see on my phone. I hope it's a nice reminder for you too. So way less murdering kids, lurking around in 2017. The most recent year when there was a lot of

data available and accessible, then there was in 1993. And it's not like 2017 was an aberration. The rate of child murderers was comparably low from 2011 to 2016 as well. The rate steadily declined started in 1994. Grand Theft Auto, the first really violent video game to be pointed at by social conservative alarmists as a game that was turning kids into murderers, that didn't come out until late 1997, so it doesn't match the trend.

If there was a strong correlation, the graph would look very different. Are the less murdering kids in the rest of the world? Now, then there were a few decades ago, seems to be. A hard to find reliable global data, too tedious and time consuming to list data for every nation. But what I glanced at, yes, the trend seems to be the same around the world. Of the kids who do kill,

who are they, why are many of them killing? It seems that most kids who kill are gang members in the first decade of the 21 who do kill. Who are they? Why are many of them killing? It seems that most kids who kill are gang members in the first decade of the 21st century, annual estimates of the number of gangs averaged about 25,000 nationally in the US and the total number of gang members hovered around 750,000. Today, an estimated 850,000 Americans are gang members. Memberships going up, that says scary number when you look at it in its totality. And an estimated 8% of those gang members. Memberships going up, that's a scary number when you look at it in its totality. And an estimated 8% of those gang members are under the age of 18. And youth gang membership prevalence varies by locality, which makes sense. Surveys of urban use in some heavily violent neighborhoods in cities like Chicago indicated from 14% to 30% of adolescents join

local gangs with members frequently as young as just 12 years old. While the majority of gang members or adults as of 2008, one study found that two out of every five gang members were under the age of 18. The National Gang Center estimated it from 2007 through 2012, 13% of all US homicides were gang related, and extrapolating from that number if 40% of gang members are under the age of 18 That would mean that there's a good chance of just over 5% of US homicides about one and 20 are committed by gang members under the age of 18 You know and again, it's doing a little bit of a funny math there That's not for sure so the main way to not have a kid become a murderer though is to not live in a gang-infested neighborhood

Which I do understand is way easier said than done. I've never met a parent in my life who has ever said something like, you know what, we're moving, we're moving. Schools around here, they're too good. They're too good. There's just not enough gangs. I mean, how's my son going to join a gang of 12 if there are no gangs to join? He's 10 now.

He's never even got a motherfucker. He hasn't sold any drugs or defend his turf in a drive-by even one time in the clock is ticking. But seriously, if you're a kid grown up in a neighborhood that has a lot of gang activity in it, it just makes sense that you are more likely to become a gang member than another kid who does not grow up around a lot of gangs. And if you do become a member of a violent gang as a kid, also makes sense that you're more likely to murder than someone who does not member of a violent gang as a kid, also makes sense that you're more likely to murder

than someone who does not belong to a violent gang. And this leads us perfectly right into the important nature versus nurture debate aspect of why kids become killers. Are some kids born killers? Keep asking that, right? Or kids, can their environment turn them into killers like growing up around a bunch of gangs?

Can that take a kid who would have been a law-abiding counselor, a pastor, or a doctor, or a lawyer, otherwise, and turn them into a stone-cold killer. Does a combination of nature and nurture the term in which kids become killers, and which kids never end up stabbing someone in the neck? The argument over the power of genes nature and the power of the environment, nurture,

on the development of children, into adults, is ongoing. Most experts seem to believe that both play very important roles in a growing brain. The middle, once again, truth seems to lie somewhere in the middle, not in an extremist point of view. The debate of nature versus nurture tends to revolve around how much of a role each side plays. Let's define some terms to really help understand

this argument. Nature is what we think of as pre-wiring and is influenced by genetic inheritance and other biological factors. terms to really help understand this argument. Nature is what we think of as pre-wiring and is influenced by genetic inheritance and other biological factors. Nurture is generally taken as the influence of external factors after conception. How your parents choose to raise you, the neighborhood you live in, the culture you are raised in, etc. The nature, nurture, debate, concerning with the relative, contribution, both nature and nurture make to human behavior such as personality, cognitive traits, temperament, psychopathology.

So what does current data seem to indicate regarding how both nature and nurture affect who we are and who we become? Well, for starters, certain physical characteristics are definitely biologically determined by genetic inheritance. You know, like the color of your eyes, your hair being straight or curly, the pigmentation of your skin, your likelihood of being affected by certain diseases absolutely determined by nature. If you have brown eyes, they're not going to turn blue just because you move to Sweden

and live in a neighborhood full of people with predominantly Nordic features. Your environment doesn't affect your eye color. Since the majority of your physical characteristics are 100% determined by genetic inheritance, it's easy to see why many of us wonder how many psychological characteristics, such as behavioral tendencies, personality attributes, and mental abilities, may also be hard-wired into us before we're born. Like are you an asshole because you chose to be an asshole? Or are you an asshole because you come from a long line of assholes?

And you can't change your shitty personality any more than you can make your blue eyes become brown. How's that for a depressing thought? Are you destined to stab a mother fucker because you were just born a stab happy midsack? Are you fated to stab due to your unchangeable stabby nature? Mother I'm just a victim of putting shit on sticks. It's my nature mother. Or can the power of your environment overcome your longing to plunge something sharp into the skin of another meat sack? Those who think most of our choices are largely determined by genetic predisposition are known as nativists.

Their basic assumption is that most characteristics of one's human experience can be chalked up to your unique genetic code. And man, I hope they're not right. That lack of free will to me makes life seem, you know, in a way kind of pointless. And if we're just destined to do whatever we end up doing. Uh, and what a great way to rationalize poor decision making.

I feel like many of the serial killers we've talked about on time, suck would love to adopt the nativeest point of view. I had to kill those kids. It's what I was born to do. It's not my fault. I was just destined for a little bit of show-ish. Uh, what kind of society would we live in? If most of us believe that our choices didn't really matter,

because choice is just an illusion And we're just you know gonna do what we're programmed to do Native us believe that brave kids are born brave smart kids are born smart and mean kids who might stab a motherfucker are born mean and Stabby Native is also believed that some characteristics and differences are not observable at birth and emerge later in life That is to say we all all have this interbiological clock and switches on or off different types of behavior in pre-programmed ways. Classical example of this are the bodily changes that occur in early adolescence at puberty.

Natives argue that language acquisition and even cognitive development as a whole also products of genetic maturation, new aspects of our identity turning on or off at times decided by genetic coding. Like with a hardcore, strict nativeist point of view, your personality doesn't change because you made an effort to change it. It was just due to change. It was pre-programmed to change when it did. You stupid fucking robot. Don't ever take credit for anything good you do. Don't ever feel bad for anything bad you do. You just do meat bot. Just do what meat bots do.

Just follow in that meat bot programming. Let me illustrate this nativist viewpoint and let's hostile more realistic way. Why according to a nativist is Michael Jordan widely considered to have been the greatest basketball player of all time because of genetics. Right, he was destined to become great because his genes gave him not just amazing athletic ability,

but also an incredible work ethic and an off-the-charge competitive nature to go along with all that. Just got lucky. Just hit the genetic jackpot. Got the perfect combination of genes expressing themselves at the right times and the right ways according to a nativist. Jordan worked his ass off to become the greatest basketball player of all time by practicing like a psycho because he was hardwired to want to practice like a psycho. He only wanted to put in all those hours the gym to get better because he had to want that

because of his pre-programmed genetic drive. His desire seeming like a choice again, just an illusion. Nativist would argue that his extreme competitive nature as a whole, right, coming from his genes. And again, very few people adhere to the strict Natives determinist belief system. This is an extreme viewpoint regarding the nature side of the nature versus nurture debate, but just good to understand to understand the debate in general. Now, let's look at the extreme end of the nurture spectrum. Let's look at environmentalists, also known as empiricists. The basic assumption of environmentalists, and this is not somebody who's trying to

save the environment, not in this context. This is somebody who's just a nurture believer, extreme kind of nurture believer. They believe that at birth, the human mind is a tabularosa, a blank state, and that this blank slate gradually filled in with your choices and experiences. From this point of view, psychological characteristics and behavioral differences that emerged throughout infancy and childhood are learned behaviors. Why are you an asshole? Well, because you are raised by assholes

who carefully indoctrinated you, who taught you to be an asshole. Influential psychologist Albert Bendera illustrated how much environment shapes our behavior back in 1961 with his famous Bobo doll experiment. Demonstrating that aggression is learned from one's environment through observation and imitation. shapes our behavior back in 1961 with his famous Bobo doll experiment. Demonstrating that aggression is learned from one's environment through observation and imitation. The experiment was executed via a team of researchers who physically and verbally abused

an inflatable doll, pretty funny actually when you watch it, I think, in front of preschool age children, which led the children to later mimic the behavior of the adults by beating the shit out of the doll in the same fashion. The relatively small study showed that children can learn social behaviors such as aggression through the process of observation learning through watching the behavior of another person whether on TV or in person. This study, an example of that saying of a monkey see monkey do very popular study pointed to by people who keep beating the violent video game drum.

People who like to point at something like grand theft auto or call a of Duty and say, well, of course, he killed someone. He was killing people in the game for years. And the game primed him, prepared him to kill someone in real life. But I think that's a logical fallacy, because killing a character in a game is very different than killing a person in real life, right? I mean, with the Bobo experiment, an adult was putting a room with a kid

between three and five years old and Bobo and a giant inflatable doll. After about a minute, the adult would beat the shit out of Bobo in front of the kid, shouting and screaming, hitting and kicking this Bobo doll for about 10 minutes, and then the kid was left alone with a toy. And then what did most of the kids then do? They well, you know, they beat the shit out of Bobo. They modeled the adult's behavior. The adults behavior clearly influenced these kids. No question about it. But did any of these kids then go home after the experiment and beat the shit out of their actual siblings? If they did, that data wasn't revealed.

You know, did these bubble kids years later beat random people to death? No mention of that anywhere, so I'm gonna say no. So I think pointing to an experiment that showed that kids beat up a doll because an adult had just beaten it up as an example of how playing a, you know, grand theft auto or call of duty or something can make you kill a real person.

Well, it doesn't hold water, right? Now, if a kid was raised by people who did nothing but beat the shit out of each other, would they probably be a little scrappier than a kid who was raised to treat violence as a last resort? Yeah, sure. More extreme example, if a kid was raised by people who constantly murdered people in front of them, based on the results of the Bobo doll experiment, they would be more likely to also murder.

Yeah, sure, I bet they would. But that's different, I think, than seeing video game violence or cinema violence or reading a book to picking violence and then actually being violent in real life. Okay, so to recap, as I've illustrated both nature and nurture definitely affect us, your eyes are the color they are for sure

because of your genetics, and you do some of the color they are for sure because of your genetics, and you do some of the things you do for sure because of how you are raised, and where you are raised, and what you've seen. You know, you want somebody beat bubble and now if you might just beat bubble too. And you definitely do some of the things you do. Some of your choices you make

are definitely influenced by nature. How much does nature affect who you are? How much does nurture affect who you are? What affects you the most? Here's what the current science says. Researchers in the field of behavioral genetics study variation in behavior as it is affected by genes. And they have determined that DNA differences

are the major systematic source of psychological differences between us. What do I think that mumbo jumbo means? I think it means that nature fills up more of our psychological pie chart than nurture does. And I got to say, I don't like that. I don't like it at all, but it might be true.

Pyrracle studies have consistently shown that adoptive children, for example, show greater resemblance to their biological parents rather than their adoptive or environmental parents, and they share many of their core personality traits. In addition to adoption studies, twin studies support this conclusion of behavior genetics that psychological traits are extremely heritable. Behavioral genetics has demonstrated that multiple genes often thousands collectively contribute to many of our very specific behaviors.

Like whether or not you will suffer from depression, for example, thought to largely be determined by heredity. So, you know, it appears as if I may need to stop pat myself on the back, if I'm not feeling depressed as much as some other people I know. Maybe it's not because I just choose to be mentally tougher. Maybe I just got lucky with my genes. Very, very possible. Adding further power to the nature side of what determines who you are,

studies indicate that people select, modify, and create environments correlated with their genetic disposition. This means that what may seem at first like nurture is really nature, right? Just, it's tricky. What appears to be an environmental influence is really a genetic influence. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. I found this fascinating. A child who is genetically predisposed to be a competent reader will be happier than

a child who isn't predisposed to be a competent reader will be happier than a child who isn't predisposed to be a competent reader A happier to listen to their parents read them stories and thus more likely to encourage this interaction in a positive way Then they'll become an even better reader Because their parents end up reading them more stories and their parents end up reading them more stories Because it's rewarding for the parents to do so because the kid likes it because the kid is naturally good at it. Right, in this example, something that looks like the result of nurture, ending up more literate because of all this extra reading is actually the result of nature. It's nature's steery nurture. But what if your kid is genetically predisposed to be a competent

reader but then is never taught how to read because he or she grows up in a home where they are severely neglected due to parental drug abuse or some other factors. Well, in this case, the kids environment and nurture has not allowed the kids nature to express itself, you know, properly. And in that way, nurture has trumped nature. So maybe nature holds a bigger slice of the you pie, but nurture doesn't exactly hold a skinny inconsequential slice. Genetics may make you prone to depression to go back to my earlier example, but being

raised by people who encourage you to get treatment to effectively control your depression, that's nurture, right? That's environment, that's nurture, help in the nature there. A lot of psychological researchers currently investigating how our nature and nurtures interact. Current research concerning psychopathology, the scientific study of mental disorders, disorders that can make it more likely for a kid to kill another kid, indicate that both a genetic predisposition and an appropriate environmental trigger are both required for a kid to say literally pull the trigger.

And this is what I keep seeing in the examples of kids, these killer kids that will go over today. The majority of these killer kids weren't just kids born bad who despite growing up in good homes or in good neighborhoods suddenly killed. Now they usually grew up in terrible homes with terrible mentors, you know, terrible environment around the home. And then after their arrests, counselors also discovered, excuse me, some cognitive problems, some nature problems, like a strange lack of empathy, a lack of understanding of what

they just done. It seems as if you have to be born predisposed to possibly kill and be put in an environment that doesn't do a great job of stifling your worst natural tendencies to become a cold, premeditated killer as a child. Put a kid genetically predisposed to making impulsive decisions and violence in an environment where they're surrounded by violence, where they don't learn anger, management, and coping skills, where they have a few of any positive role models, and now they're much more likely to be a killer than a kid who is genetically predisposed to be violent, but is raised

in a positive non-violent environment, or a kid who is not predisposed to be violent genetically, but is raised in a violent environment. a kid who is not predisposed to be violent genetically but is raised in a violent environment. It makes sense. Scientists working with the human genome project are helping to further understand why certain genes express themselves when they do and exactly which particular strands of DNA located on which chromosomes lead to various behavior indecisions and if they do that, how fucking trippy is this? It is possible that they could change our very nature by genetic manipulation, right? Think about that, we could theoretically turn off

someone's genes that make them want to kill. Like the genes that express themselves for violent, aggressive tendencies, we could just pick, nah, we're gonna, like a big mixing board. Now we're gonna pull that down. We're gonna take that from a 10 to a one. Mm, yeah, how crazy is that? And then also, if you could do that theoretically,

you could turn on genes that make a kid want to kill. You can make something like super soul-driven. But now we're gonna take that 1, we're gonna ramp that up to a 20. Terrifying. And now we're starting to write the basis for some dystopian sci-fi screenplay. I'll refocus.

Clearly, the relationship between nurture and nature is complicated and still being unraveled. Clearly, both play a part in the choices we make. This suck has made me reflect on how nature and nurture led me to where I am today. When I was a kid, my first phrase was, was that? Was that? Was that? Always point.

Was that? Was that? Was that? My dad likes to joke that when I was two and three years old, I asked his question so much that he would get so worn out that he would just be like, that's enough. If you get one more question, that's the only other question you get for the whole get so worn out that he would just like, that's enough, you get one more question. And that's the only other question you get for the whole day. What's that?

What's that? Just constant. I was extremely curious. My sister raised in the same home. Doesn't have the same child as a reputation. I was a kid in school always asking the teacher questions, always raising my hand, not the brown nose, but because I genuinely wanted to understand what they were teaching more fully. I wanted to know more, same in college.

Occasionally, where my wife Lindsay out today was existential musins, why are we here? Why? Why do people do the things they do? Why do they do that, though? Yeah, but why? Why? I studied psychology in college

to try and understand why humans act the way we do. Is it surprising that eventually I started a podcast, built primarily on endless curiosity? Clearly, I have a deeply curious nature. I was just born with that. And then on the nurture end of things, I was lucky enough to be raised by people who took the spark of curiosity I was born with and blew it into a fire instead of snuffin' it out.

My nature was nurtured by an environment that included grandparents who were heavily involved in raising me, grandparents who were way more patient with my endless questions than my parents were, grandparents who never told me to stop asking questions, grandparents who indulged me with encyclopedias and magazines like National Geographic's encouraged me to read them, talk about them. Had I not been so naturally inquisitive, this podcast doesn't exist. Had I been naturally inquisitive, but been surrounded by people telling me to shut the fuck up all the time, this podcast doesn't exist.

Nature and nurture work together to lead me to where I am today. And both have led you to where you are You know right? Hopefully are you doing you know when you when you look at your life something that lines up with your your primary drive With the core of who you are if not. I mean should you be? Have you really looked into how you could be is your best chance for success doing what you were born in a sense to do Hopefully what you were born and then also encouraged to do Refocusing again now. This is just such a thought provoking info.

Now that we understand somewhat the role of both nature and nurture and forming our identities and influencing our choices, let's look more deeply at violence in the media, specifically murder and see if it makes sense as some moreless claim that a lot of kids kill because that's what they've watched on TV or read about in books or more commonly virtually experienced by playing violent video games. We'll go over some arguments, go over some data, and then we'll move on to the reason many of you I'm guessing clicked play on this podcast. You know, we'll hear examples of kids who have killed. Jack Thompson is an American activist and disbarred attorney based in Coral Gables, Florida,

who feels very strongly that the immoral obscenity of modern society is hopelessly corrupt in our youth. If you listen to jack along enough, you'll be surprised some kid isn't killing you and everyone you love right now. While death metal blasts out of their air pods, after they put down their motor controller, jacks are noted anti-video game activists who once made some cultural noise due to the media coverage that surround some of his lawsuits against the makers of games like Grand Theft Auto, Doom, Redneck, Rampage and more. He was involved numerous cases where kids who killed were known to have played games like these and he tried to get many a jury not to convict them of horrible crimes because it wasn't their

fault. The games made him do it. He even referred to violent games coming over from Japan, particularly from Sony as Pearl Harbor 2. It's another Pearl Harbor with You know thought out thought in the living rooms of America. Wow You know children eating candy and in an air-conditioned comfortable and violent sitting on bean bag chairs Thompson is rejected arguments such video games are protected by freedom of expression saying murder simulators are not constitutionally protected speech They're not even speech. They're dangerous physical appliances that teach a kid how to kill efficiently and how to love it He's also called video games about mental masturbation. Okay. I'm not gonna deny that one

He has a lot to say about military games even even goes as far as to say that PlayStation's DualShock controllers give you a pleasurable buzz back into your hands with each kill. This is operant condition and behavior modification right out of BF Skinners Laboratory. And I gotta say, as someone who's finally be able to play his PS4 during the quarantine, it would be pretty fucking satisfying to get a nice buzz when I pull off a colloduty headshot. My controller seems to mostly vibrate when I'm getting fucked up by other players, which is almost all the time instantly.

I need to change my controller settings, something. I need more kill rewards. Thompson has also gone after various hip hop artists and Howard Stern and others for corrupting the youth. I don't feel like he'd be a big fan of time suck, especially episodes like Albert Fish. He wouldn't appreciate a little bit of showbiz, a little bit of peanut butter,

a little bit of yum, yum, yum, and your tum-tum. And he's not alone in his thoughts. On December 21, 2012, the NRA National Rifle Association blamed the media for promoting violent video games and movies and then cited these phenomena as the primary cause of mass violence. The CEO of the NRA, Wayne LePierre, stated, isn't fantasized in about killing people as a way to get your kicks really the filthiest form of pornography.

The NRA also, I don't even know if the, I don't know why I'm giving an old school Southern accent to all these people. The NRA also chastised the media for producing blood soaked films such as American Psycho and Natural Born Killers. Fuckin' love those movies. Various politicians have promoted this line of thought. Mitt Romney, during his presidential campaign, proclaimed, uh, pr- pr- pr- pr- now I want to give him a second voice.

So everyone's getting one for a little while. Pornography and violence, Poison on Music, and movies on TV and video games. The Virginia Tech Shooter, like the Colin Byron Shooters before him, I had drunk from the cesspool. That's actually not really that true. The Virginia Tech Shooter actually, people noted that he was weirdly against plane of video games.

He didn't give a shit about video games. President Trump said, we're, again, he's also selling today. We must stop this glorification of violence in our society. This includes the gruesome and grizzly video games that are now commonplace. I just feel like that accent fits people who are really doing that kind of high horse moralizing.

We must start the glorification of the vibe. Uh, feeling this line of thinking, many media outlets made a big deal out of that. Columbine high school shooters, Dylan Harris, Eric Clebold, being avid video game players. Uh, after the Columbine massacre, artists like Marilyn Manson, Ramstein, Doha's,

man, I haven't heard that thought about that song forever. Pointed to as possible, instigators of the crimes, also hip-hop culture, off-minute target of people claiming all this shit is extremely corrupting. And based on all this, is a fucking miracle.

I'm not killing somebody right now. I love violent video games. I played Doom in college, Mortal Kombat in high school. Since my mom didn't pay attention to what I watched, I was watching tons of R-rated 80s action movies like Commando and Predator and Full Metal Jacket, Rambo First Blood.

Let's watch that shit in grade school junior high. I watch faces of death, video clips of real people dying in horrible ways when I was in junior high. Listen to a lot of bands like Getta Boys and NWA and Cypress Hill in high school A to the mother fucking K home boy. Play Doom in college, I'm Marilyn Manson in concert, you know, play Grand Theft Auto after college, play Red Dead Redemption in college, duty, modern warfare now. I still listen to a tool all the time.

They have songs dedicated to a lot of people dying. The LA falling to the scene, everyone drowning and how great that is. My favorite current graphic novelist, Garth Ennis, he writes about almost nothing, but the most fucked up shit imaginable. The illustrations are so over the top violent. I won't even read some of his comics like Crossed out in public. I'm just like, I feel just embarrassed by like the drawings.

They're just so violent. I've personally written many violent stand-up bits, performed them, recorded bits about fantasizing, about killing various people, I can't stand. But I've yet to get a gun out and start mowing motherfuckers down because like most people, I understand the difference between fantasy and reality. Is that due to my nature?

If I had a different nature and experienced all of that, would I be a killer? I also think about how my dad never played any violent video games growing up, never listened to any violent music or read any violent books. He was, you know, grew up in a very strongly Christian household raised by a pastor, yet he and his brothers and their friends way more violent than me or any of my friends grown up.

They beat the shit out of people all the time. If he was exposed to all the violent media I exposed myself to, would he have been a killer? What does the evidence say about whether or not violent media can turn a kid into a killer or not? When looking for the long-sought links between real-world mayhem and bloody art, one Oxford expert, a researcher named Andrew Prisbilski. I don't know if we can trust it. Push!

Simply said, we found a whole lot of nothing. He had been studying the psychological effects of video game for more than a decade, co-author to 2019 study. And he said, quote, there's absolutely no casual or causal evidence that violent video game play leads to aggression in the real world. And I gotta say it makes sense.

I mean, Hilar and Genghis Khan, right? They didn't need any games to do what they did. Vlad the impaler didn't. Right, so yay, more Call of Duty, more Garth Dennis, hail them, right? Ha ha! Maybe I'm not a piece of shit for playing Call of Duty with my son.

Here's some more evidence that there's no strong link between enjoying violent media and committing acts of violence. Recent analysis analysis, analysis, there we go, of school shooting incidents from the US Secret Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation National Center for the analysis of violent crime. That's a mouthful.

I do not support a link between violent games and real world attacks. In 2011, the Supreme Court struck down California's law, barring the sale or rental of violent video games to people under the age of 18. Dr. Cheryl Olson, one of a number of consultants supporting a brief challenging the law noted in a New York Times op-ed on June 27, 2011, that the court opinion stated that if violent media makes violent kids Should we also ban fairy tales? I mean aren't they full of violence? Think about all the violence we went over in the suck of the brother's grim stories a few months ago Think about how written fictional media have been bloody long before those fairy tales were compiled into a big book

Those crazy tales came out of stories told by ancient storytellers to kids for centuries before the book. Do you recognize this next violent narrative? A broken and tired man returns from war unexpectedly, only to find what appears to him to be strangers, taking advantage of his house and his family. In a fit of rage, he slaughters the people in his house, even after the victims of his carnage beg him for forgiveness. This comes from Homer's Odyssey. Thought to have been written in the 8th century BC, written roughly 3000 years ago, says Odessius took aim and hit him with an arrow in the throat. It's point

past through his tender neck. He slumped onto his side and as he was hit, the cup fell from his hand. A thick spurt of human blood came flowing quickly from his nose. Then suddenly he pushed the table from him with his foot spilling food into the floor. Many of us had to read this poem in the ninth grade. Did it put us all at risk? Could it have turned us into killers?

Art has been blooding violent long before the recent trend of mass shootings. Long before the US was a country. So to say that violence in the media is why kids are killing now is based on murder rates. The results of studies conducted so far are a ton of anecdotal evidence and I think common sense, a very simplistic and incorrect assessment of what can turn a kid into a killer. Plain too much grand theft audit is not going to take your otherwise moral 14-year-old and just turn them somehow into a young Ted Bundy. To me, it seems like these more or less arguments

blaming violence in the media for real life murdering is just a bunch of virtue signaling. And I think a bunch of scapegoating, right? A bunch of pass in the buck. A lot of meat sacks love to pass the buck. One of my least favorite human tendencies, right? If a kid's parents were never spending time with them and noticing the red flags of mental illness

or talking to them about who they're hanging out with and about the difference between real world violence, you know, and the shit in the movies and in games and isn't making them feel loved and supported and valuable and special. And then that kid plays nothing but violent video games and listens to nothing but violent music and watches nothing but murderous movies. And then that kid kills who was more to blame other than the kid themselves for their own actions. All that violent media or shitty,

inattentive, neglectful parents. The shitty parents get my vote every time, every time. I bet those parents have some of the loudest voices in the bad games are making my good boy do bad things argument. A lot easier to blame the artist than it is to blame the person in the mirror. Or do I just think that because I'm actually an artist who creates violent media?

It's one of my stand-up bits or podcasts have led people to kill? Not so far, I know of. My bits have definitely led to less suicide because I've met people and received letters from people letting me know that. Letting me know that the bits make them feel less alone with their dark fucked up and violent thoughts because I've shared mine with them. And that's a whole other argument, you really hear, that violent media could actually lead to less violence, right?

Might sound crazy, but I think that argument has merit. What does the violent media reminds people with dark thoughts that they're not alone and thinking those thoughts, you know, it's okay to fantasize about crazy stuff. You can have those fantasies, now be a bad person. There is the argument that violent media allows people to purge the need for real violence out of their system, right? By experiencing it in an imaginative safe and virtual way.

I think we have a lot of violent media because humans have a long had a very violent nature. It's an evolution thing in my opinion. For centuries our ancestors had to be violent to survive. Killer be killed. You know, we've covered enough historical topics here on time so I'd like to know that the past is, you know, with very, very bloody, much bloody than now. Violin media doesn't make his violent. We have violence inside of us.

It's already there. Why are our eyes on the front of our heads and not on the sides? Because we're fucking predators. We're apex predators. Humans kill a lot more sharks and wolves and bears and lions than any other animal. And we do a lot of that killing,

not for food, but for sport, unlike any other animal. Why? Because we're the most violent mother fuckers on earth. And it would be weird if our media didn't reflect that in some way. Does that mean you should let your five year old watch or play, you know, whatever he wants? No, I don't think so. But if he does watch violent movies and plays violent video games, is it the fall of the media that he becomes a killer? No, it's your fault for not talking to him about it.

We're not providing context for that media. Got to talk to your kids, explain the violence in real life has consequences. Don't exist inside fantasy land. Take time to understand your kid, right? They're not all created equal. Even if they do all get trophies now. If you kid has a hard time understanding the difference between fantasy and real life, if your kid has more impulse control

and anger management problems and acts out against other kids violently, then your kid probably shouldn't be the one playing Grand Theft Auto or watching John Wick 3 over and over again. That's easier for me to say, you know, because I was born with a more common sense in the average bear, maybe because of nature.

Dang it, just luck. Some parents don't have that for whatever reason. Thank God for, you know, that for those parents, evidence still says the colloduty isn't gonna make their kids kill. Rant over now. Now let's look at some examples of killer kids. First up, William, Hornic, and Great Britain.

Yeah, that last thing, thing just fires me up. I just feel like it's such an easy thing to blame. Okay, William Cornick and Grabritten, William Cornick, just 15 years old, shocked England when he stabbed his teacher and McGuire to death during Spanish class in April of 2014. Casually walked up to Miss McGuire during class, stabbed her seven times while she was riding on the whiteboard.

The teenager described as a clever child from a loving middle class home, and the most unlikely perpetrator of a crime that would shock Britain. He was described by another teacher as a delightful pupil who always gave his best. While fellow students said he was just a typical lad who really misbehaved. Dr. Carrie Nixon, a consultant forensic psychologist, said William Cornick doesn't fit the profile of what we'd usually see. As a forensic psychologist, I can honestly say that the majority of murderers or violent offenders that I've worked with, whether that's young people or adults, have got that history of dysfunctional and chaotic lifestyles.

She continued, however, there were some dark sides to his personality, but it's easy for us to unpack that with hindsight. Carrie suggested that had Cornick come from his dysfunctional family and had previous convictions, people may have taken his threats to kill his teacher more seriously. I think people thought his disturbing behavior was just him being a bit bizarre, a bit dark, she said. And she added, there was evidence of personality disorder and psychopathic traits, although you can't diagnose somebody at the age because he's far too young.

But some of his behavior, there was evidence of that. People talked about him being a loner, a bit odd, but didn't consider him a genuine threat because he didn't have those risk factors. So I think there's a bit of confirmation bias going on. She also said, bystander apathy came into play with this murder, with people presuming someone else would raise concern about the violent threats he was making for a while prior to the attack. She also recognized that it's hard to determine, especially online, the difference between someone

joking, making idle threats or making serious threats, saying, I think also, we'd be quite surprised and troubled if we could hear a lot of the conversations that go on between adolescents, especially on social media. I think a lot of adolescents make some throwaway comments and threats, but they don't take each other that seriously, which I do get that. If you read some of my text reads out loud with no context, you would know if I'd written them or if Charles Manson had written them. Cornic had no remorse after the incident, telling a psychologist, I wasn't in shock, I was happy.

I had a sense of pride. I still do. He also said that after the killing, that he was fine. It was fine and dandy. He thought everything he had done was just great. Man, knowing everything you know now about killer kid psychology about nature and nurture, as a parent, if Cornic was your child, do you think that you could have kept him from killing? I think so, actually. I read a little bit more about this case. It seems as if Cornic made a lot of jokes about Killin's teacher and no one took these jokes seriously.

It was an always reference. Whereas parents asking him what he thought about his case, it seems as if Cornic made a lot of jokes about Killin's teacher and no one took these jokes seriously, which I know is reference. Whereas parents asking him what he thought about his teachers, I doubt it. Were they asking about these jokes? It doesn't seem so. Dr. Kerry Nixon, again that consultant forensic psychologist, said he came from a, you know, it seemed like a pretty functional family, but actually had some dysfunction. You know, that people knew about his threats. If my kid was threatening one of their teachers, we would for sure talk about it.

If Kyler Monroe were posting threats on social media, they would get in a lot of trouble. Right, we do monitor the text. If they started texting about, I'm gonna fucking kill this guy, you know? Like for a while, there's gonna be a conversation. You know, and if the conversation, depending on where it leads,

it could definitely lead to them going to a counselor. So it doesn't sound like he was, all that will adjust it. Classmates did find him a bit odd, a bit dark bit of a loner, odd, dark loner, making these threats, threatening the teacher's life. I feel like there were some red flags there. These next examples were more clear of an example though.

He is one of the rare ones we found with her. Came from a pretty good home, came from a good neighborhood and killed. But still, even with him, he was making these threats on it. He didn't just come completely out of nowhere. Next example, the case of Britain's youngest female double murderer, 15-year-old Lorraine Thorpe. Lorraine Thorpe became Britain's youngest female double murderer when at the age of 15, she smothered her father, Desmond Thorpe became Britain's youngest female double murderer when at the age of 15 she smothered her father Desmond Thorpe to death and the hope he wouldn't tell the police about her killing a stranger Roslyn Hunt following some sort of dispute over a dog in 2009.

Miss Hunt 41 was beaten to death in ip switch over several days with Thorpe responsible for kicking, punching and stomping on her head. Thorpe even took a cheese grater to this lady's face and beater with a dog chain. Even literally poured salt into her wounds to inflict more pain like she was a young Bob Bridella. Thorpe's father, 43, described as a vulnerable alcoholic, smothered when he was drunk, unable to defend himself, smothered amid fears that he would tell the police about her first crime.

Thorpe was given a life sentence despite the judge acknowledging that she'd been brought up with quote, no real understanding of what right and wrong is. How could she do all this? Well, with help. She didn't act alone, she had an accomplice. She was convicted of taking part in these two murders

with 41-year-old Paul Clark, the judge who convicted her pointed out that she wasn't just some innocent kid though, being pressured to kill by a 41-year-old. The judge said she could be manipulative. She was not acting entirely under Clark's control, adding she found violence funny and entertaining. The judge also said far from being sorry, Lorraine appears to have gloryed in it, describing to her friends at one stage how she stomped on Rosalind's head. She was lost, she went

from her mother to foster care, and she ran away to be with her father, eventually social services lost her. She was living on the streets drinking with alcoholic men that shouldn't happen in our society. I believe she was groomed by Paul Clark and living a life that no teenagers should be living. But then we look at the level of violence she enacted on Roslyn Hunt. It was extreme, so vicious.

And that's where it's difficult to look at the vulnerable, vulnerable girl. Would those murders have taken place if she wasn't part of that drinking community, and if she hadn't met Paul Clark, no, I don't believe they would have. Clearly, the judge thought that Clark's environment is what led to her taking part in two murders. And the judge also seems to hint that this alone doesn't account for how violent she was, and how much she seemed to enjoy the violence, maybe her nature explains that. The judge also said she spent all her time with middle-aged alcoholics to whom violence was enormous, as they fought each other and stole to get the drink.

They craved. This story to me, the example of mostly nurture, right, or the lack of any nurturing, leading to becoming a killer kid. Young Lorraine Thorpe didn't have one parent, not one adult role model, consistently in her life during her teen formative years, who wasn't constantly drunk, violent, both. Thorpe, now 26-year-old, eligible for parole in four years. Let's stay in England, look at another one of Britain's killer kids. Did you know by the way that over 70% of the world's killer kids from the past roughly 50 years have come from England?

Almost all British kids, almost all they do across the pond is fight, rape, and try and kill each other. They're fucking savages. Over 10,000 British kids murder, you know, other people at soccer matches alone each and every year, 90% of tourists who visit London get assaulted by at least one dirty, feral, violent British kid every time they visit. Hello, Gavin, that's a lot of Stabgy Cheerio. It's fucked up.

It's not true. No, we just happened to have found a lot of examples of British killer kids, thanks to some British docuseries that was done about killer kids. So we got a lot more British killer kids coming today. James Fairweather, another British killer kid. James 15 when he stabbed a young father and a female student at Cole Chester Essex

or in Cole Chester Essex, claiming voices in his head told him to sacrifice the pair for committing sins. I get it, yeah, you got to do it. The voice tell you to do. Everyone knows that. At least that's what my voices, you know, told me yesterday when I was cleaning my guns, which they also told me to do. Jake, unfortunately, not kidding about all the the murders here, the all two real murders. Fair weather was branded a monster at Gildford Crown Court in 2016. Actually, it's Gildford. I believe in 2016 when he was found guilty of the two murders and was sentenced at the Old Bailey, the Central Criminal Court of England and Wales, by Mr. Justice Spencer, who said the killings were brutal and

sadistic. He was caught after a dog walker spotted him lurking in the woods, lying in wait for his next victim. After his arrest, he admitted he had indeed been hunting down a third victim. Fairwhether's first victim was a disabled 33 year old father of five James Atfield, who was stabbed 102 times during a frenzied three minute attack in March of 2014. 102 times in three minutes. Atfield had been out drinking at River Lodge pub and Cole Chester. And then he was walking home in the dark through Castle Park when James would have been hiding in the bushes, lurking out in the brush like a creep, pounced on him, stabbed him once every 1.7 seconds for 180 consecutive seconds. Brutal. Just rage. I had filled was unconscious

but still alive when paramedics found him laying on the ground at 5.50 a.m. that morning, five minutes after someone walked into the park, all the police. He died 40 minutes later. Three months after his first murder, the five-foot six-inch-fair weather, who based on court documents and interviews was obsessed with serial killers such as Peter Sutcliffe, A.K.A. the Yorkshire Ripper, attacked Saudi PhD student, Naeed Amaneha, 31 years old, one morning on salary Brooke Trail as she walked to school, stabbing her 16 times with a 10 inch bayonet knife after pulling her into the brush. She typically walked to the University of Essex with her brother, but on the day of her death, he'd left earlier than usual and she walked alone that poor bastard.

My God, the guilt he must have felt in court, fair weather said he stabbed Naheed in the stomach first, before forcing the knife into both of her eyes so that she could not quote, see evil. Dear God. And she died when the knife went through one of her eyes and into her brain, both victims actually stabbed in their eyes.

Fair weather had just used a smaller knife on Atfield. During the two- week trial for the murder as the jury was shown clips from fair weather's police interviews in which he casually provided quote chilling details of his attack. On Atfield, the local papers chose not to print many of the crime details because they were so brutal after his arrest. Fair weather told the psychiatrist he'd planned on killing or it hoped to kill another 15 victims.

He committed the two murders. He did carry out under the noses of his parents, James 45, who worked locally as a cleaner and Anita, also 45 who worked at McDonald's. Dr. Kerry Nixon said, fair weather's obsession with serial killers and other warning signs could have also made these crimes preventable. She said, there had been a previous non custodial sentence for armed robbery where he'd used a knife on a news agent. So again, I think with this one, they were definitely warning signs here. I think being 15 or younger and holding up somebody with that, with a knife, that's a good sign that your kid may need to talk to somebody about their anger. If Kyler holds up anybody with a knife, he's going to get a lot more than go to your room and think about what you did.

Once again, you know, this kid was not dealt a good hand from the deck of nurture cards. Also not dealt a good hand from the nature cards. Bad combo, nature, nurture, creating a killer here. Apparently after he was forced to undergo counseling in psychiatric unit after his arrest, he responded well to some treatment and it was discovered that he was autistic

and in an and in in in in and in Un. I got my God. This combination of constants sounds like can't pull off in an autistic. Oh, there we go. In an autistic way. He was extremely obsessed with serial killers and obsession and absolute focus on something

common autistic characteristic. Dr. Nixon said it doesn't mean people with autism are more likely to commit violent crime, absolutely not. In fact, we know studies have shown that it does not increase a predisposition to violence. However, somebody who has got autism and was not given that support plus the different difficulties that he has, then he certainly somebody that became quite obsessed with violence. Basically, he can become more obsessed with violence than somebody with a different kind of brain. Further reading about fair weather made it seem to me that due to his parents' limited financial resources, it may be somewhat limited intellectual capacities they just didn't

have the ability to understand what their son was dealing with or the financial means to treat it. There was no adult in his home with communication abilities to get to the bottom of his anger. No one making him go to counseling when the early red flag showed themselves. He did not grow up in an environment conducive to curbing his naturally violent tendencies. Okay, one more British case of killer kids before moving away from England for a bit, and then we will be back.

Let's look at the Liverpool Laundret killing. Five teenagers attacked and murdered a young man in Liverpool in a Laundret. When two of them were only 13 years old in September of 2013. The gang chased Sean McHugh only 19 years old into a laundromat where they killed him. As he laid dine in the hospital, the young murders sent each other a series of chilling messages mocking their victim. Liverpool Crown Court later heard about how gang member Kiefer Dyke's stretch is 14 of the time of the murder posted on Facebook. Rest in peace, Shorty.

We always knew he was a pussy. 11 people like to comment. Key for and Corey, he would then just 13 plus his 15 year old cousin Andrew, he would and Joseph McGill. Also just 13 the time of the attack all convicted of the vicious and brutal murder in Anfield Liverpool, along with 19 year old Reese, Oshanasi. The victim had been walking down the street with a friend Josh Williams, aka Rocket when the two were approached by some of the gang.

As Mr. Williams sought refuge inside in nearby newsstand, Sean McQ aka Shorty chased back into the laundromat or laundromat that he and Rocket had just walked out of. O'Shaughnessy carrying a sword stick like an antique walking cane that you can pull the sword out of as as a sword hide and side and dictorhead a knife, and the two ran in after this kid that they were chasing while three other gang members

kicked the back door of the shop open. A cute mate it back into the alley behind the shop where one of the teens, they never proved which one struck the fatal blow, cut him in the leg with the sword and sliced open his femoral artery, and he blood out and then died in the hospital later from complications from the blood loss. A detective told the courts with the sword and sliced open his femoral artery and he blood out and then died in the hospital later from complications from the blood loss. A detective told the courts that the boy's

showed little remorse for their actions. The senior police officer also said he heard the boy's laughing and joking after they were arrested. Back to Dr. Kerry, who attributes his brutal killing to gang mentality. She explains, none of those young people intended to go out and take somebody's life that night. They intended to do harm because of the weapons they went and got, but they didn't intend to go out and kill that man that night. However, that doesn't make it any less horrific. What happened was awful, but the gang mentality kicked in there.

That pack mentality where they all got involved. They all had difficult lives. I worked with Maryside Police looking at knife crime 10 years ago and I looked at the backgrounds of 105 young offenders who used knives and guns and they fit every single characteristic of the ones we looked at. They've come from dysfunctional backgrounds, poverty, they've got no hope, they've got no identity apart from the identity of this low-level geographical gang, it gives them something. It means they have little respect for life and it's incredibly sad. It's something social workers are dealing with all over the country right now. So strong element of poor

nurture here. I watched some videos about this case and this crime went down in a super rough neighborhood. Yeah, full of tons of violent crime. Stabbing's were common. One commentator referred to tons of quote, knife crime. And if you grow up in a neighborhood where people are getting stabbed all the time by local hoodlums, local gang members, has there's going to be a good chance that you're going to want to join a gang, I imagine. So, you know, so you don't get knifeed yourself. And then once you're in one of those gangs, you're probably going to be a lot of peer pressure to knife somebody else.

Grow open a neighborhood like that, raise by neglectful parents on top. Parents you don't keep track of what you're up to, who you're runnin' with. The odds of you becoming a murderer, you're not going to go way up. Okay. So what are some murdery red flags? You should look for an a kid. So they don't end up committing one of the crimes we've just talked about.

Let's look at these red flags right after a quick word from one of the some of the awesome sponsors who support the suck, get in on these deals. Yeah, yeah, capitalism. Oh, Jangles loves it. Okay, now let's go over some red flags to look for in a kit to help keep them from becoming a killer kit. As we went over in a few previous talks, the old McDonald's tried of arson bed wedding and cruelty to animals does not mean a kid who what's the bad starts some fires and kill some cats is destined to be a killer. However, it definitely means your kid is at least a little fucked up.

All right, it doesn't necessarily mean he's going to becomeissary killer, but you should take the red flags of Arson and animal cruelty pretty seriously. You can generally ignore the bed wetting. Definitely don't beat your kid and call him a pussy every time he wets the bed. That can help turn him into a killer, right? That's gonna give him a childhood that reads like a Steph Cox curvy joke.

If your mommy and daddy beat you, every time you wets the bed and call you pussy and then you take out the anger You feel from being beaten for something you couldn't help that you were already embarrassed about on pets and small critters that you say Choked out your bare hands and that made you feel good You might be a killer Researchers have determined that many killer often isolated during their childhood and teenage years, not a lot of friends, not many people to talk to. I got to talk to your kids, make sure they don't feel alone and isolated.

A lot of killers are also bullied as kids or at least felt that they were bullied more than their peers. That's what they perceived, combined being bullied with a lack of coping skills and lack of people to talk to about being bullied and you end up with a kid who may end up harboring some pretty intense murder fantasies. A time bomb. There's more red flags. Antisocial behavior psychopaths have a strong tendency towards anti-social behavior. Not surprisingly, watch out for extremely anti-social children. That being said, some kids do develop more slowly. It's not a definite sign. It's just something that comes up in a lot of the backgrounds of many kids

who either killed his children or killed later as adults. They were super anti-social. Research says to pay attention, special attention to a kid who regresses from being extremely social to then being extremely anti-social, right? What happened?

Why the shift? Find out. Don't ignore it. Next on the red flag list and unhealthy infatuation with fire, like killer, especially serial killers, have a little arson in their childhood. Arson is psychologically attracted

because it involves manipulating power and control, something that killing also offers young psychopaths. David Berkowitz, the son of Sam Killer, we covered in SUCK 167, infatuated with Pyromania as a child, to the points that other kids called him Pyro. After being arrested, he took responsibility for dozens in New York, arson's some sources indicate he may have been responsible for around 1400 fires

Next on the red flag list is abusive behavior, especially to animals One of the strongest warning signs that a kid has murder in their future is the torturing killing of small animals like squirrels birds cats dogs Do that and not have any remorse for doing that. And at least according to current studies, there's a decent chance you might be a sociopath, right? Cannibalistic serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer killed and dismembered his own puppy, mounting its head on a stake when he was done. Another serial killer, Ed Kemper, not be shocked by that.

At least I get it, mother. What are pets heads for if not for putting on sticks? Next on the red flag list, something we've already discussed quite a bit here today, poor family life, right? Many kids who will grow, who kill, grow up in unstable family environments, full of mentors with lengthy criminal records,

psychiatric problems, the tendency to abuse drugs and alcohol, childhood abuse, another big red flag, don't abuse your kid, not physically emotionally or sexually, do your best to keep others from being able to abuse them, protect them, childhood abuse definitely increases the odds of becoming a killer kid. Many kids who kill or grow up to kill later, you know, have been abused physically, psychologically, and or sexually as children, usually by a close family member. This behavior instills in the child feelings of humiliation and helplessness, feelings

which they will later seek to instill in their victims. They learn how to abuse others by being abused themselves. They try to work out childhood trauma by transferring that trauma to others. Eileen Warnos, the prostitute serial killer portrayed by Charlize Theron and monster abandoned by her mother when she was four Never met her dad who was serving time in prison for rape in a seven-year-old girl when Eileen was born Eileen's grandpa who took care of Eileen when her mom left physically and sexually abused her Continuously until she ran away from home with the age of 15

She would later murder seven men refused to be victimized anymore She got so worried about being victimized she began to kill those those, she felt might victimize her, those who reminded her of previous abusers. Another red flag is substance abuse, add alcohol and drug abuse to someone who had, or, you know, terrible childhood for a variety of other reasons, and surprise, surprise, things often get worse. It's almost like drug and alcohol abuse can cloud your ability to make good decisions. Weird. I've only had awesome decisions, you know, made under the influence of a lot of boozer drugs.

Take someone harboring murderous fantasies, someone who had no positive role models directly in their life, someone who already is killing animals, starting fire, someone who is bullied and isolated, someone with a family tree full of people who've served time for violent crimes, then give them, you know, liquid courage or a meth addiction, meth. And wouldn't for violent crimes, then give them a liquid courage or a methodiction,

math, and when you know what, the odds that they might start to kill tend to tick upwards quite a bit. Makes sense. A lot of this falls under the nurture umbrella. I know I said earlier that research suggested that nature seems to make up the biggest slice of the why we are, who we are pie,

but again, nurture has a lot to say, as far as whether or not someone becomes a murderer, which I love because you can control nurture a lot more than you can control nature. At least, tell you figure out how to flip off that murder gene. Now that we've gone over many of the red flags, let's delve into what experts say about the psychology of many killer kids.

Specifically, the psychology of serial killer kids, the most murderous killer kids, young meat sacks, you don't just kill in a moment of impulsive anger, but kids who plan out murders, who fantasize about murder, who really, really want to kill, begins with some fantasies. A young serial killer kid starts strolling down the path to multiple murders by fantasizing about killing. Dommard Leonard Lake, Richard Ramirez, Bob Pradella, many other serial killers later revealed that the fantasy of killing people began back when they were teens. Leonard Lake and Pradella both influenced by the collector when they were teens

the book and the movie spoke to them they wanted to have a woman all to themselves to do with what they wished a woman who would you know they would kill when they no longer wanted anything from her donner began having recurring necrophilia fantasies when he was just 14 years old killed for the first time at 18 when he was only 12 years old old, Richard Ramirez, was shown pictures of Vietnamese women who'd been raped, tortured, and killed by a cousin of his who was a Vietnam veteran, and Richard liked these pictures. A lot began to fantasize about doing what he saw in the photos to other women. In the mind of a developing killer, when a murder fantasy emerges in their mind, it's

not just a passing fantasy, it stays there. It's a specific fantasy that gets taken seriously and gets mentally repeated over and over and over. It becomes an obsession. And then with some kids, the opportunity presents itself to carry out these fantasies. Now, this fantasy and then the fantasy becomes reality. And then a serial killer is born when a pathological cyclical mechanism has been created. A cyclical mechanism is a circular mental process,

which prompts a person to execute more murders to continue to satisfy his or her fantasy. In the killer's mind, the mental images created from the first actualized fantasy, the first kill need to be repeated to achieve the sense of satisfaction felt during that kill. These fantasies tend to be carried out most commonly by kids who are abused

and or feel rejected or neglected by their families or isolated from society. Essentially, in the real world, their life is shitty. They have no power and they feel no value. But in their fantasy world, they're extremely powerful. They are no longer the helpless receiver of pain. They are the pain dealer now. Right? They have the God power of deciding whether or not their victim lives or dies.

They decide how much pain their victim is going to feel or not feel. They're no longer a victim of fate, they are the controller of the fate of another. And this fantasy feels good. Feels good to not be a victim, getting abused by an uncle or teased by bullies at school, feels good to imagine being a destroyer of other worlds, a force to be reckoned with. This fantasy provides the budding killer with the opportunity to rewrite their own narrative to go from victim to victimizer, from prey to predator. Future serial killers who get sucked into a fantasy like this begin to plan their future murders in great detail. A child serial killer will

differ from an adult serial killer and that his or her fantasies are developed as mechanisms in defense of existing or current traumatic realities that he or she is experiencing as opposed to reliving childhood traumatic experiences. The child serial killers not thinking about how they used to be a victim, they're thinking about how they are currently a victim. Now going back to that term, sixical mechanism, let's break down the mechanism of serial killing into five phases. It starts with distorted thinking.

This psychological phase occurs when the serial killer does not think about the rationality or consequences of the actions they're fantasizing about. They don't see their violent fantasy in the sense of being illegal or morally repulsive. They see it just as something that they really, really are going to enjoy. They focus all, the perceived emotional gratification they hope to gain and block out other thoughts. For a rational human being, the thought of killing another person is quickly brushed off after weighing the moral and or legal consequences

of this deviant act, but not with the future serial killer. And I get that. Actually, all this all makes me feel better actually, a little bit more normal. I have really considered killing a lot of people, but I remember prison. I'm like, oh yeah, prison prison. That's that's right. Okay. No more road trips, no fishing, no hanging out with the wife and kids and the dogs

in the family room, no drinks out of the bar, no more shows, no more podcasts, no more sucked engine. No, not worth a risk. Probably can't get away with it. So no point in trying to carry it out. But in the mind of a buddy in serial killer, they don't, they don't worry much about getting caught. They don't worry about moral issues with the killing. They just think about how much fucking fun it would be. They just think about finally being in control, finally feeling powerful, feeling satisfied. Next is the motivational face. This phase is a thought processing phase whereby the killer feels the need to act physically and no longer just fantasize. Fantasy, not satisfying enough. In this stage, the killer kid transfers fantasies

into realities after being triggered by events that can be real or imagined. The child who has grown up in abusive home where relatives are sexually abused him, this child entertains himself by thoughts of no longer being the victim, with thoughts to become the predator. In the imagined sense, it can be like maybe they think they're being bullied at school more than they are, and they're not going to take it anymore, even though they're not really taking that much, they're going to become the predator. Thoughts of, you know, first sexually abusing some other victim, then killing them emerge, then the kid gets molested again, and then this act of abuse is a straw that breaks

their back and motivates them to seek out someone else to sexually abuse and then kill. This reminds me of what's been called the kick the dog syndrome, right? The act of mistreating a peer or someone inferior to you at a frustration because it's a superior whom you can't argue with is treated you poorly. So you know, with a kid in this phase, maybe you're not strong enough to abuse and kill your 220 pound 30 year old uncle

when you're 130 pounds and 13 years old, but you are strong enough to do whatever you want to the 60 pound nine-old across the street. After Uncle hurts you, you hurt this kid. This is just one of the many, many possibilities that can happen during the motivational phase. Next is the inter-negative answer phase. Negative messages in society make the killer kid feel inadequate. And the kid feels the need to strengthen his or her sense of identity through means of

violence, domination, or control, or combination. An example is when the sexual abuse child sees how society treats victims of abuse. Maybe he feels that his society sees victims as weak, pathetic, sad. And he doesn't obviously want to see himself as weak, pathetic, sad. He wants to see himself as strong. He feels that through violence and domination, wrongs against him can be righted. He'll shed his victim identity and trade it for an identity associated with power and dominance. Fourth phase is the external negative response phase. The thought processes

here are that the killer kid does not view his plans to kill primarily as a criminal act. He feels superior in this feeling from his fantasies eclipses any criminality or consequences from his actions possible consequences The fantasies originate from his feelings of powerlessness and it is through them that he finds a solution to reaffirm his power and control over other human beings Right the possibility being caught is not a deterrent the possibility of a death sense does not hold the killer kid back All he wants to do is enact the violence in a way uh... that they've been he's been planning in his imagination any consequence will be worth it is crime will make society recognizes identity and power even if he's caught being a monster in a courtroom better than being a victim in the free world

that's the rationalization final phase is the restoration phase this phase is the process that occurs after the serial killer has executed a killing the killer is now experienced the power they craved, they want to experience it again. Now they evaluate the risk associated with the act of murder, they just commit it. You know, they think about how they're going to hide the body, how they're going to not get caught, how next time they can kill, they can be a little sneakier to reduce the chances

of being caught further, right? Analyze that I make any mistakes, how many less mistakes can I make going forward? After this phase, the emotional necessity to gratify by killing starts again. And the cyclical thought process goes back to the distorted thinking phase. So, here's an important question with all this. Can the right environment cause any old meat sacs brains to kick off into the cycle we just went over? It does not appear so.

Thank God. No, it seems going back to nature that you have to have some sort of biological predisposition to having this, having this kind of thought process to be able to start killing. It's very least, various biological predispositions greatly enhance the odds that you're going to start killing. The minds of child-seller killers have been studied. The brain seem to show various deficits in a variety of ways. They typically possess a poor ability to handle frustration.

They don't handle stress as well. A lot of killer's brains, when studies show damage to portions of the brain that help with impulse control, decision making, feeling empathy, et cetera. Most meat sac brains are adaptive to changes and the struggles of daily life. In cases where people feel that they're threatened, the normal human brain may be stressed,

but they can handle a stress through various healthy coping mechanisms, they can adapt to challenges. The serial killer brain, the kid's serial killer brain, you know, they have a lot of trouble adapting. Instead of dealing with the stress and problems, you know, solving, they retreat into imagination and murder fantasies. It seems that some kids, because they have brains that don't cope well with normal stressors, are much more predisposed to violence than other kids. Okay, now let's talk about some of the kids who killed more than once. Let's give you some examples of, you know, kids who were, you know, took multiple victims

who planned their kills. One extremely horrifying case of a killer kid who started killing a young and then just kept on killing truly became a serial killer. Carol Cole, born on May 9th, 1938 in Sue City, Iowa, later relocated to California with his family, Cole grew up with a military father and an abusive mother who cheated on her husband constantly and took little Carol along to these other men's homes

and threatened to beat him if he told his father. So not great nurture here. If you're mama, might you sit in the other room and listen to her, fuck dudes, a hundred dad is back. And then told you and no one's certain terms

that she'd whip your ass, hide, roff, you squawked? You might be killer. At the age eight, she's getting to an afterschool's fight with one of his classmates, a boy of the same age,

named Dwayne, ended up drowning Dwayne in the lake in Richmond, California. The desk was regarded an accident by authorities. It wasn't. Cole confessed to it many years later in an autobiography. He wrote in prison saying he wanted to kill that kid and feel good. He would go on to commit a number of petty crimes and join the US Army before he was discharged

for stealing pistols in 1958. Cole's first female victim as an adult was SEL Buck. He picked up in a San Diego tavern on May 7th, 1971, strangled her to death in his car, drove around with the body in the trunk before eventually dumping it. Just two weeks later, he killed an unidentified woman buried her in a wooded area,

later claimed that he had proven themselves unfaithful to their husbands, and reminded him of his adulterous mother. A psychiatrist once wrote of him, he seems to be afraid of the female figure and cannot have intercourse with her first but must kill her before he can do it. Eek. He would kill a total of 15 women and then he also killed an 8 year old boy. Before being caught in 1980 and executed Nevada on December 6, 1985.

Carol spent his entire adult life in and out of prisons and in and out of mental hospitals. He had been diagnosed shortly after leaving the army with anti-social personality disorder. So shitty nature, shitty nurture combined, again, to make a killer. Another of the killer kids who killed young and continued the trend to adulthood was a Brazilian serial killer

named Pedro Rodriguez Filo. We're twistered with this guy, is he mainly killed bad guys. Brazilian serial killer named Pedro Rodriguez Filo. We're twister, this guy is a humanly killed bad guys. He's kind of a revered as a psychotic Brazilian Batman. And he's actually alive today and has an active YouTube channel, so random. Pedro born with a damaged skull on July 17th, 1954, the result of his dad physically abusing his mom while she was still pregnant with him, not a good start.

Right, bad nurture, maybe giving him some bad nature with a possible baby brain lesion. When Pedro was just 14 years old, my son's age, his father was accused of stealing food from the high school kitchen where he worked as a security guard, resulting in him losing his job. And to avenge this, Pedro killed the man who fired his father with shotgun. We bit of an overreaction. Clearly did not possess strong impulse control. One later he killed another guard of the school who he thought was the real thief.

Again, maybe a slight overreaction here. After killing these guys, he hit out in Sao Paulo where he soon killed a drug dealer. Later his fiancee was killed by gang members, which led Pedro to commit a massacre during a wedding organized by the gang's leader, where he and some friends brutally killed seven people and injured 16 others. Months after the massacre, he discovered that the boyfriend of his favorite cousin had impregnated her, but refused to marry her. So he shot and killed that dude, to avenge her honor.

Shortly after this kill, Pedro found out that his father was in prison for murdering and dismembering his mom with the machete Seems as if he may have gotten some murderous genes from his dad But the childhood probably wasn't something out of a leave it to beaver. You know episode if his dad ended up killing his mom with a fucking machete Pedro visited his dad in prison and then killed him by stabbing him 22 times and then cut his dad's heart out and Bit a piece of it. Not sure if he chewed it up and swallowed it. Couldn't verify that anywhere.

Does it matter? No. Oh, he didn't even eat some of his dad's heart that he cut out for killing him. Oh, okay. It's not as bad as I thought. No, it doesn't matter, but I do want to know. Pedro continued to kill many criminals after it finally being arrested on May 24, 1973. Right after his arrest, he's placed in a car with another criminal

or rapist and he quickly murdered that dude. Then during his incarceration, he continued to kill people in prison, a lot of people, 47 people. He killed 47 other fucking inmates, and then was released in 2003, because you can't spend more than 30 years in prison in Brazil for anything at all.

I've been wanting to do a suck on this guy for a while, but cannot find a decent source. I don't know if anybody knows where to find a comprehensive book on this dude. Similar to the super killer, Solanik, fascinating with him, have done preliminary research and it's just so hard to find anything well written in English or something that translates well from Portuguese. So if you have that source, let us know. Another crazy story of a serial killer, kid coming from South America, from Buenos Aires, Argentina,

home of Cayatano, Santos, Godino, Godino born on a Halloween, 1896, not a good home environment. His father and mother, Fiora Godina Lucia, Rufo, both known to be abusive alcoholics. Godino's father had also contracted syphilis before Gidina was born causing him to experience serious childhood health problems. So nature nurture combo, such a last guy, not good from birth.

Starting in childhood, Gidino killed cats and birds, played a lot with fire. He was real, as they say, real piece of work. His violent behavior and lack of interest in education caused him to jump from school to school. Not a early red flag to the psycho. When he was just seven years old, he beat a two year old, Mcgueld DePale, and then threw the toddler into a ditch. Luckily the kids survived.

Year later, Godino beat Anna Neri, a young child in his neighborhood with a stone. Police officer intervened, stopped Godino from killing her. He didn't go to jail due to his age. Committed his first known murder in early 1912 when he was 15, a 13 year old victim, Arturo Lauren was later found dead in an abandoned house. Few months later, he set a set fire to the dress of a five year old girl named Raina Vanacoff, who died

from her burns. Still in 1912, he tried to kill at least two others, set more fires leading up to another murder where he hammered a fucking nail into a kid's head and then hid the body. Finally arrested, admitted to these and other killings, his anti-social behavior continued into his adult life while in prison. He tried to kill several of his fellow inmates before dying in prison himself in 1944 at the age of 48. Yik.

Now let's go back to the land of bangers and mash, beans on toasts, and the world's most murdery children with the world's most adorable accents, let's go back to England. 1968, a young girl named Mary Bell confessed to a pair of murders that shocked the people of her native Newcastle England. Just a day before her 11th birthday,

Bell later confessed she lured a four year old boy named Martin Brown into an abandoned house and strangled him to death with her own hands. Nightmare. This is like something of a horror movie. It must have taken a long time because her hands weren't strong enough to leave marks in the boy's throat, which made the cause of death hard to establish. Few weeks after this killing, Bell confides in a friend admitting what she's done, then she and this friend, 13 year old normal Bell,

no relation, just one of many, many young murderers, British girls with the last name of Bell apparently. They team up to break into a local nursery. They don't take anything of value, but they do leave a note, confessing to Mary's first murder. At first, please don't take the note very seriously, but then these two girls go on and kill three year old Brian how in the woods soon afterwards.

Unlike with Brown's death, Howe's death couldn't be mistaken for natural causes. It was clear that he'd been strangled. Also his hair had been cut, his legs had been scratched up with the pair of scissors used to cut his hair, his penis had been quote mutilated, guessing with the scissors, and a large M for Mary have been carved into his fucking stomach. It feels like a script to a horror movie. It was going on with this kid, which he blatantly possessed by demons. How could she be so violent?

Prior to the murders, her wealthy educated parents said she was a wonderful girl who loved puppies almost as much as her little brother, who she was known to dood on. The teachers at her private school said she'd won several awards for kindness. And she'd often talk to a whonny when she grew up to be either a pediatrician in the third world country or worked for PETA. Yeah, right. Now, her childhood was a dumpster fire, a violence and rape. Mary Bell's mother was a prostitute named Betty who worked the road from Newcastle to

Glasgow. Her father, most likely one of Betty's clients, began at the age of four, four. Mary said her mom began to pimp her out two pedophiles. She also suffered from a few mysterious accidents as a kid such as being pushed out of I mean falling out of a window and she was once seen by neighbors eating handfuls of sleeping pills that her mom Betty told her which is candy. If your mama gave you sleeping pills when you were a kid and told you they were candy and she pimped you out to dudes who were paying to sleep with her when you were only four and once pushed you out of a window, you might be a killer.

Oh, now, now please welcome to the state of my good friend of fellow suckstar, chicken go. Bye, bye, play boy. Bok, bok. Man, hookin' up with a four-year-old and toad, that's too low even for a formal pimple, I took a Joe. And pimping that four-year-old out of some nasty ass pito, that's some bottom shelf evil shit. Now bitch, you gotta go.

Better you better get ready for a frontal seat and a lake of fire. I ain't a religious man, but it's a devil's reel. Even pins to your root and be the burn when you expire. You made a killer. Just like what was said by my man, Steph Cox, Kirby. You know, chicken Joe can go with a flow in a lot of scenarios. Someone be paying what you did was far off and beyond.

Pervy, you feel me? You dig? You hear what I'm saying? Uh huh. That was chicken Joe's way of saying that he's not approved, but what Betty did was far beyond rude. Now he's got me rhyming. And if you're first time listener,

that's a long time running inside joke mashup. Two time consuming to explain it any further. Welcome to the suckverse. After Mary's arrest, her mother Betty sold multiple versions of her life story to several tabloids, produce several dozen pages of Mary's writings for sale. Sweet mom!

Make it some money off her daughter, going to jail for murder, after pimping this daughter out once she was younger. The court took this abuse, as well as Mary's age and mental health and the consideration when deciding her fate. Ultimately, she was only convicted of manslaughter and served 12 years in custody.

Upon her release in 1980, the court granted 23-year-old Betty in an imbibody, at which point she built a private life for herself and kept out of trouble, she gave birth to her only daughter on May 25, 1984, the 16th anniversary of young Martin Brown's death. When reporters outed Bell's identity in 1998, she and her now 14-year-old daughter, who just learned her mother's past from the papers, had to flee their home due to reporters and true crime weirdos and people angry she wasn't still in prison, constantly knocking at the door.

Taking pictures. In 2003, Britain adopted a so-called Mary Bell Law, which allows courts to protect juvenile offenders identities for life. Bell's current whereabouts, she's 63 now, are unknown. And her poor daughter. Can you imagine finding out when you're 14 that your mom strangled two little boys when she was the kid, that she carved her initial into one of their stomachs

and cut up his penis? Do feel bad for Mary, some childhood, huh? Super terrible nurture. And based on the court referring to some mental illness, probably not great nature either. Okay, let's get out of England and away from child killers who killed multiple times for a second. This next example is an especially sad example. The youngest murderer we could find online, at least the youngest known murder in the last few hundred

years. Noof from Jazon, Saudi Arabia, only four years old when he shot and killed his dad in April of 2012, four. According to the family, the murder was accidental. He didn't know what he was doing. Noof said, my father is a hero like the one on my PlayStation. He's pretending to be absent, but we'll return soon. I'm waiting for him. Broodily sad. As kids, mom describes Noof his calm and non-aggressive.

His brothers, he has 14 siblings. Say he's a big fan of cartoon films and we just imitate one of his favorite characters when he aimed the pistol at his dad and shot him at home. According to one report, Noof shot and killed his father for refusing to buy him a PlayStation.

Local paper said the shot only four years and seven months old, grabbed his dad's pistol, shot him in the head. His kid asked his dad to buy him a PlayStation and then the shooting took place after he got back home without a PlayStation. When the kid's dad was undressing, he said his loaded pistol down and then this kid grabbed it and fired at him from close range. The kid's uncle said, this is destiny and God's will and we have

to accept it. No. Now this was not God's will. This was a man making a careless mistake with his gun and it cost him unfortunately his life. Don't ever, ever, ever, set a loaded gun down near a four-year-old. Not for a fucking second. You kid me? Can we blame violent media here, right? The PlayStation reference? No. Kid was four, he should have been playing violent video games.

I understand why he did. Right, he had 14 older brothers and sisters. Had to be hard for his parents to keep track of what that many kids were up to. So you know what you don't do? You don't have 15 fucking kids. It's unnecessary. I don't feel bad for people who have a lot of problems

because they have like 15 kids. It's fucking unnecessary. What do you live in in 1810? You need them for the farm? After my two kids out of a sect to me, so that it wouldn't be possible, at least now biologically, for me to have 15 fucking kids.

I truly feel sorry for this kid. Technically he's a murderer, but at four years old, I mean, if you kill somebody, it's not entirely your fault right ever not even most of your fault Man next story justice sad And Ross in a suburb of Tron time nor this would maybe more sad more sad I must say more sad and Ross in a suburb of Tronheim, Norway in the fall of 1994 three young children a five-year-old girl Sylvester at Rittergarde and two five-year-old girl, Silji, a Ritterguard, and two six-year-old boys

playing on a football field covered in freshly fallen snow. The boys' names never mentioned by the press. Their parents were neighbors who did not know each other, but they knew that the children had played together before with no problems. The three were busy making snow castles, and then the fun stopped. Why? No one knows for sure.

At some point, while playing, the boys turned on a little girl, punching and kicking her, beating her with stones. Also at some point, either during before or directly after the attack, they took off her clothes. She was not sexually assaulted. Then they ran away and left her to die in the snow of hypothermia. One of them later told the police, we beat her until she stopped crying. The girl's mom,

Bethie, a redder guard, now 53 in Silgey's stepfather, Jorgen Barlap, now 52, first assumed that the kids, killers, when found would be adults. And then the following day, they discovered the horrible truth. Bithi said, one of the people who had tried to resuscitate Silgey, we went to her house to say thanks. We thought we should thank her for trying.

And then they find out who killed her daughter. Once inside the lady's home, so she stepped out Jorgan, says the woman told us that she had done much to save Silji. I was sitting with her son on my lap. Then she said it was him and another boy that had done it. Can you imagine finding out that the little kid sitting on your lap had just killed your little kid had beaten them with rocks,

taken off their clothes, left them to die in the snow, how hard would it be to keep yourself from throwing that kid across the room and just bouncing them off a fucking wall? What crazy emotions would you feel in that situation? You're gonna look to the boy and ask him, what did you do? He said, I jumped on her because I thought she was sleeping. Then he said, he took off her clothes

because she thought she was sleeping. It makes fucking zero sense, but again, this kid's six years old. A lot of six years old makes sense. Then you're gonna say, when we found out he had done it, we left. It was too difficult. I wanted to throttle him and be done with it. When I realized that I almost wanted to kill him, we left.

Yeah, I bet. Norway, the age for criminal responsibility is 15. So these boys never arrested, never charged anything. Norway's child services agency made them undergo counseling. Two weeks later, these kids were back in school. According to a case worker, Pritz Sletzmannen, Sletzmannen, who supervised counseling and monitoring of both now 31-year-old boys until they were 18, neither have gotten into trouble since. She says, neither of them have been involved in violence or criminal activities they've done quite well. But that might not be entirely true. According to a 2010 Guardian article,

even in 2010 it said, Margaret Rosenvinch, who worked in a Tronheim branch of Norway's state church, said she saw the boy who sat on the lap of the father of the girl, he killed that day and says he's not doing well. He's struggling, he's homeless, often either drunk or strong out of meth. Imagine that. Imagine doing something so monstrous when you're the age of a first grader.

Something that by the time you're an adult, you know, you don't understand better than anybody else. How much does that haunt you? Knowing you'd beat a new girl, taking her clothes off, let her dye in the snow. You don't know why you did it, right? I don't know why. I did have to shoot. I did at that age.

I got sent home one day in the first or maybe second grade for sitting down in the gravel with some other kids were like in a little circle, and we were just getting rocks and pretending that the rocks were a dick. And then I got sent home. Why were we doing that? Fuckin' no idea. The murder of Silhi Redigard compared in the press

to the murder of another child beaten a death by other children that had occurred less than two years prior back in, guess it, England. England yes of course it occurred in England kid killer capital of the world we got to do something we got to do something about these British kids Sunday Sunday Sunday we got the grownups in most of the world's children taking on the stabby killer kids of great Britain Who walks out of the cage who gets an adorable pipip Cheerio to the juggler Who will be eating fish and chips and who's getting shanked and ripped?

We'll sell you the whole seat, but you'll only need the edge gafna Kidding kidding. Take a ha. Gosh dang Is weird though? How most of the stories we found for killer kids came from England. There were just so many stories out there from killer kids from England. Let's talk about the murder of James Bulger. This may be the saddest one. This is super rough.

They're all rough. This one is so fucking terrible. I even feel bad saying that because it's not like I don't think the other ones are terrible, but this is just Okay, I guess maybe in and way they're all like equally. I don't this one is a little it's the worst for me I think on the afternoon of February 12th 1993 two ten-year-old boys John Venables Robert Thompson tortured little two-year-old James Bolger to death

Bull Jar I think I'm saying bull Jar the two ten-year-olds were at the new strand shopping center in Boodle near Liverpool on the morning of, or actually on the afternoon of February 12th, after having skipped school. The two used busy shoplifting, doing a little vandalism when they decided for reasons that remain unclear more than two decades later to steal somebody's kit. Who suggested it is unclear later after they were arrested, each blamed the other? What we do know is that they tried to steal some other kids before they took little James. Inside a TJ Hughes department store that day, a woman noticed that two boys were trying to get her kids attention. A moment later, her three-year-old daughter, two-year-old son, go missing. She quickly found her daughter, but there was still no sign of her son. Frantically, she asked her

daughter where he was. Her daughter said, gone outside with the boy. And then when the mom ran to where the little girl pointed, saw her two year old with a little boy who when she saw him, he pointed at her and told her son to go to her and then the 10 year old took off. Soon after this aborted abduction, Vennibles and Thompson, Lloyd and around a snack kiosk,

trying to steal some candy, when they noticed James Bulger standing by the door of a nearby butcher shop With when bulgers mother Denise momentarily was distracted. They got the toddler to come over to them Venables taking the kid by the hand several shoppers later remembered noticing the trio is that then walked out of them all Sometimes bulger ran ahead leaving Venables and Thompson to beckon and back with with calls of come on baby come back come on baby so fucked up so disturbing these kids just 10 years old fifth graders doing this great schoolers surveillance camera cotton leaving them all at 342 p.m. heartbreaking footage to watch when you know it's gonna happen to

this little kid by the time they're leaving them all Denise the little boys mom of course panicking she's out there somewhere by her side you know she was placed in order with the butcher shop is she just you know looked away for just a minute to interact with the butcher. Then she looks back down. He's gone. It's such a terrible feeling. One time at Disneyland, when Kylie was maybe four, I lost track of him for, I don't know, roughly eight seconds.

He was standing right behind me, turned out, but I couldn't see him. And he didn't answer when I called out for him. And it was just long enough for my paranoid mind to think that someone might have taken him and my stomach just fucking dropped to the ground. It was also terrible for these parents. This is a nightmare, like a parents worst fear. Denise quickly finds them all security, describes her son, what's he, what he's wearing?

They announced the boy's name over the mall's loudspeakers by 415 PM over 30 minutes after he'd vanished. There's no sign of James Bulger. He's reported missing to the local police station. Denise must be losing her mind at this point. Meanwhile, after Venables Thompson and Bulger had left them all, the toddler began to cry out for his mom, the older boys ignore his cries,

continue walking towards a secluded area near a canal. At the canal, they pick up Bulger and drop him on his head in the canal and then leave him on the ground crying, a woman passing by notices Bulger, but doesn't do anything. After letting him cry for a little bit, then Venables and Thompson call for Bolger to come over to them. He follows them. His forehead is now bruised and cut. So Venables and Thompson pull his hood over his head to try and hide the injury. Passerby can see the partially covered

forehead injury. One person sees a tear on Bolger's cheek, but still no one does anything. And part of me does get it. I mean, who would expect two 10-year-olds to have taken him? I think you would assume that they were a family. The older boys then wander past some Liverpool shops, buildings, and parking lots. They walk down one of Liverpool's busiest streets. Some witnesses later remember seeing Bulger laughing while others remember seeing him resisting, crying out for his mom. One person saw Thompson kick Bulger in the ribs for resisting.

Still, no one does anything. One woman sees Thompson punch Bulger and shake him, but she doesn't do anything. She pulls her curtains and blocks out the scene. She saw this from inside her house. That I don't understand. You see a 10 year old punch and shake a two year old. You say something. Doesn't matter if there is, there is brother or not. But I guess that is easy for me to say. I'm almost six, two and two hundred and thirty pounds. I can easily scare the fuck out of basically any 10 year old. And if their dad gets mad, there's a good chance,

you know, I can scare the fuck out of him too. With evening approaching, an elderly woman sees Bulger crying, notices his injuries, approaches the trio to inquire what's going on. God bless this woman. The two 10 year old say, we just found him at the bottom of the hill. Apparently, satisfy with their explanation,

the woman simply told the boys to take him to the nearby Walton Lane police station. And they're like, yeah, she has a sure no problem. Don't like this either, but I'm going to give her a pass. You know, because she's an elderly woman. She called out to them once more as they walked away, but they didn't look back. She was concerned that another woman standing nearby said she had just seen James laughing moments before. So they assumed nothing was wrong.

These poor two women must have felt sick when they read the paper a few days later. Later that night, actually, one of the women saw on the news that Bulger was missing. She phoned the police and expressed regret for not doing something. Not long after the elderly woman sent the boys on their way, Bulger was almost rescued again. A woman concerned for the toddler told menables in Thompson that she would take the child to the police station herself. But when she asked another woman nearby to look after her daughter while she when she asked another woman nearby to look at her daughter while she did so, that woman refused because her dog didn't like kids.

So, Bulger slips away from safety once again. That woman must have felt sick. Vinables Thompson and Bulger then walk into two different stores where they interact with both shopkeepers who, though, suspicious of the older boys, let them go. Then, Vinables and Thompson run into two older boys that they knew, and these boys ask who the toddler is. And Venables who says that it's Thompson's little brother

and they're taking him home, then after running into all these witnesses, instead of just letting the kids go, they walk him over to a deserted patch of railroad. The boys hesitate, maybe reconsidering what they're about to do. They briefly turn away from the embankment, but then John Venables and Robert Thompson turn back

towards the privacy of the deserted area, proceed to brutally torture and murder this kid for 45 minutes, roughly, between 5.45 and 6.30 pm. Venombles and Thompson's had brought blue paint. They'd stolen from the Shavimal, they splashed them and Bulger's left eye, they kicked him, pummeled him, hit him with their fists, bricks, some stones, stuff some batteries into

his mouth. They hit little bulger over the head with the 22 pound iron bar at one point, which resulted in 10 skull fractures, all this beating. All in all, bulger sustained 42 injuries to his face, head, and body. He was so badly battered, authorities later couldn't determine which injury actually killed him. Eventually, venibles and Thompson placed bulger's dead body on the train tracks, hoping they can make the whole thing look like an accident. They run off before a train comes by and sever his body in half. Fucking brutal. The next day, police searched the canal where the boys had been earlier in the afternoon because an eyewitness had reported seeing Bulger there. Other searches connected elsewhere, all leading to

nothing. With little to go on, Bulgerers parents are initially suspected, but when the police eventually see the closed circuit TV footage from the Shavimal, they can't believe their eyes. Despite the fuzzy footage, it's clear that two small boys led James off to the exit. An anonymous phone call to the police then implicates John Venables and Robert Thompson as the Boulders killers. The caller told the police that Venablesbs and were both absent from school that day that they uh... had seen blue paint on the sleeve of venibles jacket and the police visit both kids homes discovered blood on tombs and shoes blue

paint on venibles jacket both kids are arrested during separate police interviews john and robert turn on each other over the course of interviews that last several days john eventually confesses i did kill him. And then says, what about his mom? Will you tell her I'm sorry? Yee.

Robert refused to confess denying everything throughout the whole process. Thompson remained chillingly unfazed, earning the nickname from the press, the boy who did not cry. Court appointed psychiatrist determined that the two boys knew right from wrong, that they weren't sociopaths, but were nevertheless able to, you know, they're never able to uncover any concrete motives for the James Boulder murder. Something no professional has been able to confidently determine in the year since nobody has ever understood exactly why these kids did this. Do kids sense juvenile detention facilities released at the age

18, given new names and identities Today while Robert Thompson is believed to be assimilating back into society living a quiet life the same cannot be said for John 2010 he was in prison for downloading images depicting various kinds of sexual abuse his anemones went out the window when he got arrested again He was depicting I'm excuse me downloading images Dean, various kinds of sexual abuse inflicted upon male toddlers. How creepy is that? Considering what he'd done. He became eligible for parole in 2013, at which time Ralph

Bolzer, James's stepdad told the parole board that he couldn't forgive his son's killers and that John should not be released. Nevertheless, John was released, then just a few years later, November 2017, in prison again, when more child abuse images and a pedophile manual providing instructions on how to fuck a kid discovered on his computer, sensed to three years in four months in prison. What?

He has due to get out in just about a year. Why? Let's do this. Fucked. He has done. He's never going to be a good member of society. Why would you let him walk free? So yeah, and again, why do they do it? Yeah, why did they kill James? Well, we'll never know.

Does seem as if John, right, clearly still interested in toddler boys all these years later, was he sexually attracted to toddlers back then when he was 10? Was the brutality born from a sexual place? Right? Had he been molested? Was he trying to go from prey to predator? What about Robert Thompson? The press did learn that Thompson's father left the family home five years before the attack in 1993 when he was just five, and that his mom was a severe alcoholic suffering from depression at the time of the attack. So not a good home life, not good nurture. Since he's too having given any interviews about why they did it, it doesn't appear

to the families, I have talked about it. Yeah, we're not going to know, probably, more about, much more about it. But I'm guessing there were, you know, red flags with both 10-year-olds before the day they skip school and killed a toddler. Now, not all, you know, young killer kids are from England. So let's give the UK a break. In the US, there have been at least two cases of six-year-olds committing murder. Possibly the youngest killer in the history of the US committed his murder way back in May of 1929 in Kentucky Carl Newton, Mahan only six and a half when he killed Cecil van Hoos in eight-year-old boy

The two got into a fight over a piece of scrap iron Cecil took the scrap iron away from Carl Slap him in the face according to articles and the Cincinnati inquire were backed in Carl then ran from Cecil went home climbed up on a chair grab his dad's 12 gauge then ran from Cecil went home, climbed up on a chair, grabbed his dad's 12 gauge, which was kept above the door, went back out and kept loaded, went back outside, shouted to Cecil, I'm going to shoot you, then he did. Squeeze the trigger, shot Van Huss and the boy died. Carl sends to 15 years in reform school, sends was reversed a month later because he was so young, and he was allowed to remain with his parents. He died at the young age of 35 and 1958 with no

other reported incidents of violence. No idea what his home life was like. Apparently his parents weren't real big on gun safety, but I don't think probably many people were back then. The second case of an American six-year-old who committed murder happened in February of 2000, much more recently in Michigan. The boy considered the youngest school shooter in American history. Deedrick Darnell Owens, born in 1993, killed a six-year-old girl named Kayla Rolland in Mount Morris Township. Deedrick had a 32-caliber handgun.

He had gotten from his uncle's house, brought it to school. And then in front of the teacher and 22 other students pulled out the gun and shot Kayla. If I were the gun, just once the bullet hit the first grader in the arm before piercing several of her vital organs, doctors not able to savevor due to Owen's age and lack of ability to form intent. He's never charged with anything. However, his uncle was charged. Jamel James, who hadn't locked up the 32 caliber sem automatic pistol, ended up pleading

no contest to involuntary manslaughter spent two and a half years in prison before eventually being released, spent an period of time on probation. What's Dietrich been up to? All I can find was that he is now a felon, convicted for a home invasion and larcency when he was 18 in Bay City, Michigan. Owen's father said that before the shooting, his son had been suspended before for fighting and for stabbing a girl with a pencil. Sheriff Robert Pequill involved in the case said Owen's father told authorities his son liked violent movies and television

shows uh... the sheriff said owing's also told him that when he asked the son why he fought with other children his son said that he because he hated them so sounds again like there were red flags right this kid wasn't sweet and will adjust before the murder he didn't just want to show off his uncle's gun to some friends and then you know something cool and then actually went off now No, he was, he was troubled.

He was violent before the shooting. The next terrifying killer kid is a parent's absolute worst nightmare. We've gone over numerous examples of kids killing other kids. There are also lots of examples out on the web of kids killing family members, including their parents. This is one of those around midnight on the evening of January 19th 2013 even more recent a very disturbed 15-year-old boy named Nehemiah, Grigo Went into his parents bedroom in South Valley, New Mexico, suburb of Albuquerque with the 22 caliber rifle from the family gun cabinet

And he shot his sleeping mom in the face the shot woke up his nine-year-old brother Zephaniah Sorry these names even right when I hear bunch of these okay, I came to see him was going on Grego met him in the hallway and led him into the room to show him what he'd done to mom When Zephaniah got understandably he was set over this Grego shot him twice with the same rifle left him to die in the floor Down the hall he can now hear his two younger sisters crimes We walked into their room where they were huddled together shot him both Five-year-old jail or jail and two-year-old Angelina. Now alone in the house, Griego went back to the gun cap. It got an AR-15 out to ambush his dad. His dad was a pastor.

His dad got home from some late-night work at a local church. And when his dad walked in the front door, Griego shot him in the entryway. Just lit him up, left him there to die. So to recap, he shot his mom, three siblings and his dad. They all died that night. He kills his entire fucking family. Then he goes back upstairs, take the keys to his mom's van and drives off. Authorities soon catch wind of the crime when Gregor

had asked his girlfriend's grandma, she was living with her grandma, if he could move in with them for a while. The more police learned about this case, the stranger it got for starters, the Gregor family, deeply religious, 50-year-old Greg and his wife, wife, 40 year old Sarah, homeschooled their kids, most kept them away from secular society. Despite the strong Christian atmosphere, the parents seem to be comfortable with Grigo's

relationship with his 12 year old girlfriend, and apparently turned a blind eye to a sexual relationship between the two. In fact, right after Grigo shot his family, he texted his girlfriend with a confession told her he was feeling crazy. According to SMS logs, the pair then sent a series of sexually explicit texts back and forth to each other. Ultimately, Grigo claimed to have killed his parents because his father was controlling and abusive physically, but there's evidence that his killings were part of her premeditated plan. He'd worked out with his 12 year old girlfriend who he's having sex with to have both families killed so they could be together.

She was allegedly supposed to kill her parents too, but backed out of the last minutes when asked why if it was his parents who were so abusive, why did he then kill his younger siblings? He said he was because he had to do a thorough job to get away with it. In 2016, the court decided to send us the then 19 year old grigot as juvenile, but he was later given life in prison without the possibility of parole when another judge reversed the lower court court ruling. Grigo confessed to having been dealing with homicidal fantasies for quite some time before

the killings, even considered going on a killing spree after killing his family, which we he hoped would end in a gun battle with police. So maybe some red flags here before the murders, maybe his parents should have been checking his text messages, talking to him about sex and his 12 year old girlfriend. Maybe send him to some counseling. Maybe in counseling, the murder fantasies would have come up. I don't know. Maybe not, but maybe not a lot was done. Another big group of killer kids, and this will be the last group we'll talk about today, school shooters, May 26, 2000, Lake Worth, Florida, 13 year old honors student, Nathaniel Brazil, sent home for throwing water balloons, returns to his Lake Worth middle school with a family

pistol, fatally shoots teacher Barry Grinnell, a popular teacher who had sent him home that day as a child Brazil was surrounded by domestic abuse and alcoholism at home. Local police frequently responded to calls from the Brazil residents. That's one, another one on April 24th. There's so many in April 24th, 2003 in Red Line, Pennsylvania, 14 year old student, James Sheetz, entered Red Line area, junior high school, armed with his stepdad's pistols, shot and killed the school's principal Eugene Segrau before killing himself. Sheetz was an athletic teen who played at the school football team. Got to be found skateboarding, student hoops, and his rural subdivision.

To this day, no one understands why this happened, at least no one who's talking. September 24, 2003, 15 year old, Recurrie High Freshman, John Jason McLaughlin, walked into his high school in cold spring, Minnesota with a loaded 22 caliber handgun, shot 15 year old freshman, Seth Bartell in the chest, fired a second shot at Seth that missed and hit 17 year old senior Aaron Rollins in the neck. Bartell then tried to run away, but McLaughlin ran him down and shot him in the forehead.

Both shooting victims died. McLaughlin sends to life in prison. Why did he do it? Seems to be a lot of bad nature in this example. Six mental health experts brought in to test fine court. Three of them diagnosed him with schizophrenia. The other three diagnosed him with major depression and an emerging personality disorder. Clearly struggling with mental health issues, not being treated. Why weren't they being treated? Probably not the best nurture. His family also

clearly not staying on top of their, you know, son's mental health struggles. And these are just two of many examples of school shootings that have occurred around the world, you know, that we could list. Since 1999, when the Columbine High School Massacre occurred, there have been 68 school shootings in America alone. In recent years, the average number of days between school shootings has been decreasing school shootings be happening with more frequency. From 1999 to 2014, the average number of days between shootings was 124 days from 2015 to 2018 the average number 77 days Right well overall murder and violence has been down recent years as I laid out earlier school shootings are increasing Why?

I'll something the media coverage is to blame the desire for fame a long-standing motivation driving a lot of different kinds of human behavior Too often bad behavior the line between fame and infamy becomes blurred, you know, as many bad actors do not believe there's any such thing as bad press, tragically some of these bad actors, individuals capable of committing mass shootings. Researched by Adam Langford in 2016 revealed that rampage shooters, rampage shooters, and pursuit of fame have become more common in the last few decades, and that these shooters are disproportionately found in the US. He notes that fame-seeking rampage shooters are usually significantly younger and kill

an injured significantly more victims. The devastating 1999 Columbine High School shooting shocked the nation, but not everyone was horrified. That's the problem, some were inspired. Many subsequent school shooters reported being captivated and encouraged by Columbine gunmen. Is this because of hyped up press coverage? Probably. You know, it's the victim rewriting their life's narrative we talked about earlier.

Sometimes a kid who is being victimized or at least perceives himself as a victim would rather be known as a mass murderer by many than to be known as a victim by a few. Maybe it would help, I think, more if the media made fun of these killers. Right? Don't let them rewrite their narratives and to be someone to be feared, someone powerful. Make them somebody to be mocked, right? Turn them into limp, shamecock, chiquitilos. What if the Columbine shooters, Dylan Clebold

and Eric Harris have been given super shitty nicknames, right? What if it was, what if Clebold was known as micro-pean stinking nuts in the press? What if Harris is known as bedwetting, you know, mama's boy? It's micro-pean stinking nuts, Cle know, Mama's Boy, it's Micro-Paint Stinky Nuts, Clea Bolt, and Bed Wedding, Mama's Boy Harris. Photoshopped the pics used by the press to make them look super fucking dumb. It's really mock him. So disturbed kids watching that thing. Fuck, I don't want, I

don't want to kill my classmates. I don't want to end up with some fucked up picture of me on the news. You know, wearing two tight, my little pony jammies and what looks like actual shit rubbed into my face and hair. I don't want that blast all over the news. I don't want to be known as micro-pean stinky nuts. I try to point out that I think the serial killers I cover pieces of shit, right? Try to emphasize how, I don't think that they deserve sympathy or empathy.

You know, when you cross the line and murder incident people for your own sadistic pleasure, I think you deserve quite a bit of mockery. It's why in certain cases, I'm aggressively pro-death penalty. I do think it's different when you're talking about a six-year-old killing somebody, but when you're talking about, you know,

say a 12-year-old brutally killing somebody, I wouldn't have a problem at all with the media mocking the shit out of them to making, you know, what they did, much less appealing to other kids to emulate. Some media outlets do refrain from naming a school shooter to avoid contributing to mass murders, becoming a household, mass murderers becoming household names. Maybe that's shabby more often. An article in Vox entitled the media should stop making

school shooters famous noted that extensive media coverage made Columbine school shooters not only famous, but even in some quarters, folk heroes of a sort, particularly among deeply alienated students. The article noted that the Columbine shooters even had a cult following known as the Columbiners. That's scary. Those kids shouldn't have any fans. You don't have to do a time stock in Columbine one of these days. The article outlines efforts to decrease the amount of media coverage devoted to school shooters through campaigns aptly entitled no notoriety and don't name them.

Despite counterarguments citing the first amendment and the public's right to full coverage of devastating school shootings and similar attacks, which includes personal information about the perpetrators, research supports the concern about the potential danger of over-publicizing school shooters. Okay, this last little bit we should touch on, psychotropic drugs, popular theory out there that over-medicating kids with modern psychotropic drugs turn them into killers.

Any truth to that? Probably not. Some 42 million Americans have taken anti-depressants, the class of psychiatric drug that is often alleged to have a link to violence. That's around 13% of the US population, higher rates for women, 16.5%, higher rates still for people over the age of 60, 19%, according to 2017 data from the National Center for Health Statistics.

So it doesn't appear that these drugs are turning people into killers. Several modern day school shooters were on medication for various mental illnesses, but that doesn't mean that the drugs made them do it, right? No study supports that. Correlation does not equal causation. Much more likely that the drugs weren't able to stop them for killing due to the underlying condition the drugs were trying to treat. So if anything, under medication might be the problem.

Dr. James Nol, director of Forensic Psychiatry at SUNY UPDATE Medical University, says, if there was a connection or link, one would expect it to be pronounced or at least much greater than we are seen. After deciding that a large percentage of people taking the drugs that are supposedly turning kids into killers are older patients, he asks,

why do we not then see increased violence in women and people over 60? Exactly. We don't. So, they're probably not a link. So now let's wrap this up. What can we done? What can we done about killer kids?

Well, if you're unlucky enough to be the parent of a violent sociopath or psychopath, the best you can do is just try and keep up with the red flags, right? If your kid is talking about killing their classmates or their teacher, don't shrug it off, talk to them more about it. Dig. If you don't like what you're hearing, look into counseling. If money's a problem, look into government assisted counseling,

you know, to do something, anything, but just don't ignore it. And don't ignore your kids just in general, or abuse them. A lot of cases we looked at, but didn't include, you know, because there was just too much info to process for this week's suck,

where the pattern remained the same is the pattern of many of the kids we talked about today, right? Shitty home lives, a lot of abuse in their childhoods. Uh, look for nature-based red flags, like mental illness, some people are born psychopaths for sure, but also remember the best way to not end up with a killer kid is to not raise a killer kid. Provide them with a loving, stable home. Very few stories, very few examples out there of a killer kid raised in a loving, stable home by parents who encourage open communication and seek professional help when problems arise. Also if you were raised in one of these supportive homes, if you were being raised in one right

now, maybe take a moment right now to thank your parents for being attentive and caring and nurturing for calling you out on your shit, right? For making sure you didn't join that gang or that you did get in trouble when you did something violent so that you were forced to get help and not do something more violent later. Thank your parents for making you see that counselor for having late night talks with you for staying connected with what's going on in your life, for giving you lots of hugs, for telling you they love you toned. Have you done that? Have you thanked your awesome parents? You ungrateful little rat fox, right? Do it now you obnoxious tween little dirt bag worthless

sex as shit, fucking piles of acne and overactive sweat glands, you stupid piles of fucking old socks. I don't even know what I'm saying right now, I'm just kidding. Just be glad you don't have a parent who talked to you like I was trying to talk to you. You know that you're lucky enough to have good gardens in your life because you're a lot luckier than a lot of the kids we talked about today. Hail Nimrod. Time now to talk about the things we talked about today.

One last time was today's top five takeaways. Time, suck, top five takeaways. Number one, luckily violent crimes are significantly down in most of the world. Some places they are down more than half from peak in the mid 90s. The instances of killer kids also down a great deal as well. That's awesome news. The only really bad news is the trend of school shootings has increased, which is a huge

problem that we need to address further. Number two, nature versus nurture science indicates so far that most of what we do may be predominantly influenced by our genetics, determined by our genes. However, clearly, nurture plays a huge role in who we become as evidenced by so many rough kids coming out by so many rough kids coming out of so many rough homes. Number three, what the fuck is going on in England? Control your stabby little Oliver twist over there.

Number four, micro-pain stinking nuts. Let's at least consider referring to the next school shooter as micro-pain stinking nuts. And number five, one more killer kid story. We're going to travel back to the 19th century to meet our last mini monster between 1871 and 1872. Report surfaced in England, of course. No, Massachusetts actually. Between 1871 and 1872, report service in Charlestown, Massachusetts that a number of

young boys had been lured away from where they were playing, were assaulted out in the woods. Why is it always the woods? Dangerous woods in this story today. The crimes were brutal. All the boys badly beaten, most reported being struck repeatedly with a belt to were stabbed. Some of the boys permanently physically scarred. Nobody ever positively identified in these attacks, which is two years later, 14-year-old Jesse Pomeroy arrested for brutally beating younger boys in South Boston, where

the family had just moved. It believed that Pomeroy committed those earlier assaults as well. The court found he mentally deficient, released him from reform school after just a few months. After immediately getting home, to the dressmaker shop, his mom owned and raised her family in ten-year-old Boston native Katie Karon. Disappears a short time later, the naked mutilated body of four-year-old Horace Millen found in a marsh. The police, many of whom had earlier protested, promaroi's light sends didn't waste any

time to went right to his home, searched the shop, and in a pile of trash they find Katie's body decomposing. The details of the case horrified the public despite promaroi's youth, the prosecution asked for a conviction on first degree murder with extreme atrocity, which carried the death penalty. The jury did not deliberate long before finding pomeroy guilty. I mean, the girl was found in the family's garbage heap after all. The judge sentenced his fortune-year-old pomeroy to death by hanging. And the state of Massachusetts, every death warrant had to be signed by the governor and

the governor refused to sign it in this instance. The state's executive counsel then met three times to debate the matter, twice voted to uphold the hanging sentence. Both of those times the governor still refused to sign. Finally, the council voted for life imprisonment and solitary confinement and the governor agreed. And then, Pomeroy occupied his time and solitary by becoming the single biggest pain in the ass as jailers had ever seen, locked up alone in his cell 24 hours a day. He read up on the law, filed multiple lawsuits against the facility and staff, made weapons and tools that whatever he could find or steal, stage

at least a dozen serious escape attempts. The most serious involved blasting through a wall with a redirected gas pipe. This this backfired cost him his eye. 1917 he was taken out of solitary and put with the general prison population. He had spent 41 years locked up alone. Jesse Pomeroy eventually died in 1932 at the age of 73 after spending nearly six decades behind bars. And he was a brutal kid and he paid for that brutality dearly for the duration of his very long adult life. Shut up, five takeaways. Killer kids has been sucked. Man, feel lucky. I don't have kids predisposed to becoming killers right now. I think my daughter Monroe could or maybe would kill if raised in the wrong home.

But I think we can keep her from stabbing anybody. I think glad, really glad she's not grown up in England, because then all bets are off clearly. For the record, it doesn't seem like there are more killer kids in England than other places. At least there was no stats that we found that indicate that, just weird though, that so many stories, when you look into killer because in the web, it's just like one after another

coming out of England. Thank you to the TimeSuck team, Queen of Bad Magic Lindsey Commons, Reverend Dr. Joe Horst, Scott Paisley, Horst, Scott Johnson, Biddelixer, Logan, Kate, a spicy club, Reverend and Bad Magic, Merch.com and the socials. Logan and Kate now here in court, Lennita, Ho, very happy to have them here. They're getting settled in. Thanks to the Script Keepers, Zach Flannery for doing so much great research on

killer kids putting together a lot of good info. Thanks to all those involved and keeping the culturally curious private Facebook group of fun and a reverent and inviting and supportive place, Divertially hang. Again, over 19,000 members there. So get in check it out. Thanks to the all seen eyes of the cult and counters of the cult lists Hernandez for moderating the Facebook group. Thanks to Liz for overseeing the Bojangles emails. Thanks to beef steak for keeping time sucks discord channel fun. Over 6,000 members goofing around over there. You can link over to it via be at the time suck app.

Next Monday on Time suck, we meet the infamous Genghis Khan, also known as Genghis Khan, a man so mad and myth that no one even really knows exactly what he looked like. Genghis wasn't this Mongolian conqueror's real name. It was a title given to him because he became the universal ruler of the Mongols, lived an incredible life from 1162 to 1227 CE, conquered all who crossed his path, eventually reigned over the largest, continuous empire in the history of the world, right?

Which extended from the Yellow Sea and Eastern Asia to the borders of Eastern Europe. There were several times, and even China, Korea, Mongolia, Persia, Armenia, were included in the Mongol Empire was the second largest empire in history after the British Empire, which was spread around the globe. Starting with the rough childhood, his life reads like the ultimate adventure story. He had to rescue his first wife from a rival clan. His best generals were once his enemies,

and he was betrayed by his best friend, like a movie. During his reign, he's also thought to be responsible for the deaths of up to 40 million people. Yeek. But killing wasn't the only thing he was prolific at. He's also thought to have had over 500 wives, one in 10 men who live in Mongolia today are said to carry his Y chromosome, equally in some 16 million individuals. So basically half a percent of the world's dudes are related to him. Next Monday, we will meet possibly the world's most prolific procreator and among the most affordable conquerors of all time. You can learn so much including this real name. Now let's move on to today's Time Sucker updates. Alright dark, dark heavy topics. Let's start our updates off with some fun. An anonymous

sucker writes in with the Cummins law update an awesome anonymous sucker. Alright, greetings King and Queen of the suck. Hail Nimrod, praise be to both jangles and hail Luciferina. I wanted to take a minute and write to you about my love for podcasts, time, suck and scared to death and all things pertaining to the cult of the curious. I'm a law enforcement officer, work for an agency in Utah. The suck was spread to be spread to me by my friend and tattoo artist WillXX out of Salt Lake City.

Will introduced the podcast to me while getting tattooed and so he became a fan. So much so, I frequently listen to the podcast while on patrol. I patrol the rural part of the state where I often have to drive quite a distance to respond to calls for service. While responding to a report of a runaway juvenile, I was listening to the Albert Fish Suck while in route. Upon arriving, I paused the suck, which I streamed through Spotify. I began

assisting my partner who had located a juvenile who was helping our runaway run from us. We had learned that this juvenile was covering for the runaway and was sending him text messages while we were looking for it. My partner, I believe the male, was tipping off the runaway and was sending him text messages while we were looking for him. My partner, I believe the mail, was tipping off the runaway and knew his location. Therefore, we took his phone from him and placed him in the back of my patrol vehicle until we could locate the runaway who was believed to be a block or so from our location, on foot. I stayed with the juvenile and began checking the area on foot to see if I could see the runaway in the distance. While away from my vehicle, my partner attempted to call my cell phone

that I had left in my vehicle. When I did not answer to call, my phone began playing the suck through my vehicle where the detained juvenile got an earful of Albert's debauchery. I was only gone away from my vehicle for a few minutes, but upon returning the juvenile, I had had enough of a listen to cause,

and some concern. When I approached my vehicle, I could hear the podcast playing where I quickly opened the doors to the truck to turn off my radio. That was mortified. How much did this kid listen to? Juvenile was a frequent fly with law enforcement and his 15 years old.

I know he's no stranger to vulgarity since he gave me and my partner on earful upon contacting him, but I'm pretty sure he has never heard discussions regarding pipe and hot peanut but a showbiz. That's how I was done in Hollywood. I pulled this kid out of the back of my truck, began talking to him about the dangers of aid and runaway. To my surprise, the kid's attitude had completely changed. He was no longer defined.

Did not parade me with vulgarity like he had previously. Before releasing him, I asked him if he had any questions from me and he asked, what do you listen to? He listened to some pretty sick shit. I then told him I listen to a podcast on a serial killer and then there was a cop. We often try to learn about criminals to better understand why they do what they do so we can catch them.

I quickly tried to change the subject. When the kid said, can I go now? I told him he was free, but left him with, I hope he changed your actions because if you don't, you might end up wind up in juvenile detention where they only serve peanut butter sandwiches. And the kid returned to his house. I drove off the road and laughed my ass off. I've not seen the kid for several weeks now, and I can't help but think that the old pervy albert might have scared this kid straight.

Sorry if it a long email, it's just started to let you know that Cummins Law may have worked for the goodness case. Thanks for all you do on my spaces, or to look forward to all that you and Lindsay do for the cold to the curious. Keep the suck coming, my friend. Well, thank you for sharing that hilarious message. Man, peanut butter sandwiches. That's all that's over in prison.

I love it. And thanks for what you do, officer. Sorry to hear that just this past Thursday, a rookie officer was killed in Ogden. And that officer responded to a domestic violence call after a woman called 911 that her husband and threatened to kill her. When officers arrived at the home and the man suddenly

retreated inside the home, slammed the door as officers approached the man open fire, striking the officers through the door. This officer died and the name was not given out at the time of this recording. Just like to remind everyone during times of a bad officer getting a lot of press coverage that there are good officers. A lot of them still literally dying trying to keep the rest of it safe. And hope you get more ink soon from WillXX. Love that dude.

Now let's have some more comedy from Wackadoodle meeting kick ass sack Gavin who writes, Hey, Cummins and crew, the MINDERS of Madness, the Sears of the Strange, the Marquis of the Mailbag, after listening to the Fritz Russell story in the Ivan the Terrible Suck at jog my memory of a guy used to work with. This wasn't his name, but we'll call him James. It was my first day in the job, very first day. I was working in a factory that made electronics and I get put with James in a little stock room we had on the floor. James was an interesting guy. He was 77 years old, Navy vet, and had what I could only describe as old man's strength.

He could move and carry the heavy boxes. We had to rearrange daily as fast or faster than I could at 18. Now onto what made him a great A-Wackadoodle. I'm sitting in the break room with him on lunch. It's a 12 hour shift. So I've known this guy for about six hours. We talked some during the day, what interests I had, things like that.

And then he asked me, Gavin, you mentioned you had interest in history, right? I replied that, yeah, I do. And then he asked, have you ever looked into the economic history of the country? Not sure where he's going. I give a non-committal answer, something like, yeah, little. He puts down his sandwich, looks me dead in the eye,

and says, you know the Jews won everything, right? Now, far be it from me to dictate. When is and isn't the right time to drop that little nugget of knowledge on someone? But I would wager, sometime in the first six hours, you've known them, isn't it? Of course, was terrified. First job, first day, and the guy training me decides on lunch to drop the grand Jewish conspiracy on me. The guy was full of off the wall shit like that. One day he would bring me fresh figs from a tree in the backyard, tell me about a scheme

to import unrefined gold bars into the country and then resell them for a massive profit. The next day he would go on and on about how the current president was secretly the antichrist and was working to destroy the very fabric of American society. He was a hard worker but he was also a crazy racist old man. Curiously, he was not a flat earther though. There was another guy I worked with who insisted that the world wasn't round but was, and I quote, biscuit shaped. Hope this didn't go on too long and you got a good laugh

in the off-chances does get read. Big shout out to the guys who got me listed in the time, so John and Spaceless Those are Joseph best wishes from rocket city Gavin Thank you Gavin. Uh, yeah, yeah, we just live man. We just live on a big old space biscuit floating through the galaxy space biscuit controlled by the Jews in a country led by the anti-Christ Wackerdoodles man, they the keep life interesting. Hail, name rodden. Thank you, Gavin Uh, now for a little bit of sad news from an awesome sucker, Anastasia, who writes in with a message of remembrance. She writes,

Hey, master of the suck. Almost a year ago on June 15th, 2019, we lost an awesome time sucker, my friend Heather. She was funny, she did some stand-up, she was kind, huge animal lover, most free-spirited person I've ever met. I was working with her at a sanctuary for animals in Florida, and in 2017 she offered to have me come along

and see you in Orlando, and after the show we came by and said hello. She had just started listening to the Jim Jones episode and talked with you about all the butt-fucking happening. That's what I knew I had to give time so I could try. I've been hooked ever since, I'm forever grateful to her for bringing time so you can do my life and to you for bringing us closer,

laughing about all the weird shit you talk about. I'm including pics of times you saw you in 2017 and 2018. Keeping an awesome, keep on sucking, and a station. Thank you, and a station. I remember meeting you both, yeah, thank you with the picture jog of my memory. Thank you for those. So sorry about your friend, shit, such a huge, warm smile, such a good laugh.

And all you listening, remember that no matter how rough life may be right now, at least you're living it, right, you're alive. Doing better than everyone right now, currently represented by a tombstone. So hope you're making the most of your time. Hope you feel good about being alive. Hope I see you again in the station.

Hope Heather's resting in peace, wherever we all go, once this life is over. Now two more. Next, an update to an old suck from Top Shelf Sacks Scott Dank Scott writes, a question for the glorious Lord Nimrod, dear Suck Master, my name is Scott Dank, hoping to receive some holy advice, hoping you as the great saint Suck Master could bring my question before Nimrod. I will apologize in advance, this may be a little long, you contain more detail and side notes than you may care for. It didn't, I've read this before, it did not.

It's great. As I was listening to the episode on Nigerian scammers, I remember the lady that I had met while I was driving for Uber to lift right after college. I graduated from a liberal arts school. I was having trouble finding a well-paying job even with a biochem degree. So I pick up this older lady one day from a gas station.

She seemed friendly enough, so I thought, you know, nothing of it at first, it's normal ride. Once you get to my car, she'll be in telling me your entire life story. It's pretty common, especially for older people. So again, I don't think anything of it. Then she gets to the point where she tells me how she was married to a very rich man

who divorced her a couple years ago, took everything from her, cost her her job, et cetera, and now she's homeless. I feel bad for her. Then she tells me though, however, everything is fine. She has always had to work for everything. She's had, you know, she's had, she's okay working. And besides now, she has new fiancee.

She's gonna make everything better. I'm thinking, oh, this is good. You know, she's gonna life back together. Then she drops this bombshell. She says she's never actually met her new fiance in person. Instead, they met online. I've been talking for the past few months, and they recently got engaged.

At this point, I'm getting a little suspicious. The bombs keep dropping. She tells me how they're talking the phone all the time and FaceTime every night, then she gets into more detail, telling me how he is a sergeant in the army. He stationed in Nigeria. All sorts of red flags going off now. She's not seen any of them. We approached her first stop of Walgreens. She tells me how the army is not letting him come home and he just leaving him in Nigeria. So we asked her to wire him $350 for a plane ticket from Nigeria to St. Louis. First of all, I think she's homeless. How does she have $350 plus fees to wire him? And you know, and this Uber lift ride in second, what airline is flying from Nigeria to St. Louis

for $350 bucks? My flight from St. Louis to Cancun was a thousand. I've always believed you should not push your beliefs and ideas on someone, especially someone not interested in your opinion. This lady had already informed that the only reason she had called for me to give her a ride was because her daughter thought it was a scam and was refusing to take her to wire the money. So now I'm caught between wanting to say something and I have her not lose her money that she clearly needs to live and also not wanting to put her down and tell her this is a scam. After she wires the money, she gets back into my car, as I head to her final stop, the gas station I picture up from, she continues telling me about her new fiance, tells me

how all sorts of military information the civilian should not know. And he's sent her photos of people that he's had to kill all kinds of crazy shit. Finally, right as I can see the gas station, she drops the biggest red flag, tells me how she could not really afford to send them the $350, but she loves them. And it's all gonna be okay once he gets back here to St. Louis because wait for it, he's also a millionaire. The only, fuck, the only issue as to why he needs $350 for a plane ticket is though, even though he's rich, all his money's tied up in St. Louis.

So once he gets to St. Louis, he'll get his money. He uses army experience to fuck up everyone who's tried to hurt her. At this point, I literally do not even know what to say. As she gets out of my car, I go into my driving app and refund her ride on your sweet man, because she obviously needs the money

and I was only gonna make five bucks on the ride anyway. So for up to me, I would be asking Nimrod now, what should I do in the future when this happens? Should I just let them get scammed or try and help someone out in this situation? You know, even if they don't wanna hear it from me. And now there's more to this story. About two months later,

I'm driving for Uber Lift, still and arrive at a hotel to pick a lady up. It's the same lady. Now she's got someone with her. Once they get in the car, she clearly does not remember me. She introduces me to her daughter. Her daughter that two months earlier would not drive her to wire the money because they believe this is all a scam.

They get into the car. Where are they going? That's right. Same Walgreens. I took her before. Then back to the hotel. She begins giving me her entire life story again, even updates me on what has happened since the last time we met, explains that she had already sent her fianceed $350 from

plane ticket. His boss and the army didn't want him to leave, so he kept him in a meeting too long, causing him to miss his flight. Oh man. So now she's wearing another 500 bucks because the ticket prices went up. She tells me she had to borrow some of the money. She's even living in this hotel room with another couple and they haven't been paying their half.

So I'm conflicted as to whether or not I should, you know, talk to her, you can tell her what I think, keep it to myself. Others have clearly told her this to scam. No one wants to be told what to do by the 22 year old Uber driver. So I drop her on her daughter, clearly helping her wire the money now, again, and refund their ride.

So now that I finally reached the end of the story, what advice does Nimrod have for this humble time sucker? Thank you so much for reading this I know it was longer than you probably wanted to be I cannot wait to come see your show next time you were in St. Louis Scott's dank. Well, thank you for riding in Scott. It was fine You know like you I don't like pushing on solicited opinions on people However, I also don't like seeing people get hustled obviously I Talked to Nimrod. Here's a's what I think he thinks you should do in this situation.

He thinks you should tell the person that their story reminds you of another story, of a close friend's story. Tell a little white lie, right? Say that your close friend, or your mom, sister, whatever, that they got, oh man, that's reminding me, the story, this is so crazy.

And then it's, oh, and they ended up getting scanned out of a lot of money, right? Then you can just say, I hope that's not what's going on here, but I only bring it up because it sounds exactly like what happened to my mom, sister, oh, and they ended up getting scanned out of a lot of money, right? Then you can just say, I hope that's not what's going on here. But I only bring it up because it sounds exactly like what happened to my mom, sister, friend, whatever. Then I think a little butt hurt about it, at that point, you can drop it,

but maybe they'll ask more questions. And you can just go on by saying, oh, yeah, this stuff happens all the time. This sounds exactly what happened to my mom. She said it happened to somebody else, blah, blah, blah. You know, I think saying it happened to somebody, somebody else, you know, not this person. You know, it makes it not about them.

You know, it makes it, it makes it so they don't have to feel stupid or judged. It's about somebody else. Just get some kind of thinking, plan to see the doubt in their mind about their new Nigerian money hungry millionaire, fucking assassin friend. That's what Nimrod told me to tell you, Scott.

I hope that helps for future advice situations and hail Nimrod. Last message. Short one and a silly one from sweet meat, time-sucker, Mark Walker, Mark writes, Dear Master of the Suck, Rum Scratchable Jangles, Profit of Nimrod. I tried to spread the suck, but I think I scared someone. I was wearing my Albert Fish Yearbook tee at an open mic event. Some poor soul asking about the shirt. I proceeded to explain what I can remember about the crazy ass story of Albert Fish. And when I looked back up with this guy, he had this look of what the fuck is wrong with you.

It was then that I knew I was truly part of something special. Hail Almighty Nimrod and his Harry Balls, Mark. Yes, Mark, you are part of something special, especially deranged. Good luck at your future open mics. Hope you don't scare any more people. Or you know what, fuck it. Who cares if you do, all right?

It's fine, life will go on. And Hail Lucifer and that's all for today's Time Sucker updates. I need a net. We all did. Have a great week everybody. Stay safe out there. Be extra careful in England. Really careful, obviously, and don't take any candy from kids. Because they might kill you. And keep on sucking. Are you going to tell me that you kill me? Please don't kill me, baby sequence.

Okay, long as your name is in killer secrets, you're good with me. You're good with me.