Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 200 - The West Mesa Bone Collector: Shroom'd and Doomed

Episode Date: July 13, 2020

Today's episode is.... interesting. Honoring a tradition started with the 100th Drunk as F*#k episode, I altered my mind again for this 200th episode. Five minutes before recording, I ingested a hefty amount of magic mushrooms. And then I did my best to not ruin the research. I hope it's entertaining! The story of the West Mesa Bone Collector is a tragic one - not the best for a happy high. Eleven women's bodies (and one unborn child) were found in a plot of undeveloped desert just outside of Albuquerque in 2009. And authorities still don't know who did it, but they do think a serial killer is responsible. And, there are some suspects that do look pretty damn guilty. We take a deep look into this crime, and get a little crazy celebrating 200 straight Mondays of Timesuck. Thanks for making this possible, Meatsacks. Hail Nimrod! We've donated $6,100 this month to the Innocence Project. The innocence project exonerates the wrongly convicted through DNA testing and reforms the criminal justice system to prevent future injustice. To find out more, visit https://www.innocenceproject.org/ Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/oyeBgtNFcXQ Merch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ Try out Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna become a Space Lizard? We're over 9000 strong! Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast Sign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits

The story of the West Mesa murders begins outside Albuquerque, New Mexico, on a high desert plateau that rises up over the Rio Grande. In 2009, 11 decomposed corpses were found buried here. It took the Albuquerque police months to uncover all the bodies, which were scattered over a 92 acre swath of land owned by a home developer. All of them were women between the ages of 15 and 32, and most were Hispanic. Nearly all of them were sex workers, please believe a serial killer is responsible for their death. The women went missing between 2001 and 2005, long before their bodies were uncovered,

which is made solving their crimes very, very difficult. By the time investigators found their remains, all that remained to these women were their bones. Will the West Mesa bone collector ever be caught? It's gonna be difficult to provide closure to these women, where they're bones. Will the West Mace a bone collector ever be caught? It's going to be difficult to provide closure to these killings. Are there any suspects who really, really look like they're responsible for these murders? Yes, they're sure are. And we're going to look at those suspects and look into a whole lot more in today's true crime, 200th episode, Shroomed and Doomed edition of Time Suck Happy Monday, Meet Sacks, welcome to the 200th Monday episode of Time Suck. For the 100th episode, we did the drunkest fuck suck and I wanted to go bigger this time.

So this is the shroomed and doomed suck. Help me, Nimrod. Don't fuck with me today, Lucifina. Guide me both jangles and soothe me, triple M. Give me a good trip. I'm Dan Cummins, a master sucker, disciple of Nimrod. And you're listening to a very odd edition of Time Suck.

Record it here in a sunny CDA, Cordelay Nidaho with the Reverend Dr. Joe Horsecock Johnson Paisley, the Scripp Keeper, Zach Flannery, Queen of Bad Magic, Lindsey Cummins, and the Bad Magic Merch and more minds, Logan and Kate Keith, all here in the Suck Dungeon. This is your first episode.

Oh boy, this is not how I normally do the show, not at all, shortly before this recording, I had a big, a bunch of shrooms, couple caps, several large stems, psilocybin mushrooms, aka magic mushrooms, aka hallucinogens, aka just kidding, if anybody out there is in the legal field, but not kidding. They're gonna kick in some time in the next hour.

Should peak mid-show, we're gonna see how this time in the next hour. Should peak mid show. We're gonna see how this goes. My wife, Lindsey, Queen of Bad Magic, may have to help guide me to the back half of the notes. Thank you all so much for being a part of this journey. 200 episodes were still growing, so grateful. Still enjoy doing this. This podcast is now launched.

Other podcasts like the Patreon Secret Suck, the horror podcast, Scared of Death, now growing faster than time suck actually. And soon Joe Dick and I are gonna have a Wednesday comedy podcast called Is We Done? The trailer drops this week, July 15th. First two episodes come out on August 12th. Joe is birthday, yay birthday boy.

It's gonna be a beefed up version of the idiots of the internet, a mockery of ignorant web culture, every Wednesday on the Bad Magic YouTube channel and on various podcast directories and we'll come out at noon Pacific time. In the first week, August 12th is gonna be two episodes. So please subscribe and thank you, Spacers for playing with the new Time Suck trivia game

on the Time Suck app, get my ass kicked on trivia. Dude, way worse than I thought I would do. Answering questions about topics I've covered. Thank you again to all the spaces, for allowing bad magic productions to donate $6,100 this month to the Innocence Project. Thank you, thank you. Founded in 1992, the Innocence Project, founded by two attorneys, they exonerate the wrongly convicted through DNA testing and reform, the criminal justice system to prevent

future injustice. To find out more, go to theinnocentproject.org, link in the episode description. One last thing before we get into the content, got the Kemper Zapples tank tops, back in the store for summer, back at badmagicmerch.com. Mother of Wabu, let me get a tank top. I don't wanna pit out when I'm putting heads on sticks.

So badmagicmerch.com for that and so much more. Now let's get weird. Let's head down to New Mexico estate that feels like the perfect backdrop for a tale told while under the influence of an elicit substance, poor New Mexico. I've been to Albuquerque several times at Tucson, the beautiful Santa Fe, a lot of cool spots in the land of Enchantment. But thanks to Breaking Bad, I mostly associate New Mexico with meth. Maybe I should have done some meth for the suck. No, there's never a right time for meth. We've learned that on the suck here before.

No meth, no meth for the 300th episode either. All right, let's get started. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ The Spacelessers chose this week's topic, multi-murder mystery. If you like the alphabet murders, suck episode, or the 1977 Girl Scout murders episode, you'll most likely enjoy this tale of another uncott killer. This one dubbed both the 118th Street serial killer, and more infamously known as the West Mesa Bone Collector.

And West Mesa Bone Collector. And the West Mesa Bone Collector. Sounds more like a paranormal monster than a serial killer. If I came across a trailer for a movie with that title, I am for sure watching. Sounds terrifying. Sounds like a creature you only see nightmare as something that doesn't come out to play when the lights are on.

Locally, the murders committed by the West Mesa Bone Collector quickly became known as the 118th Street Homicides due to the location where the bodies were found. The murders also came to be known collectively as Albert Kirkki's crime in the century. Today, we'll look at just about everything there is to look at concerning these crimes. Unfortunately, there is not a ton of info out there about these murders, but there is more than enough to make for an interesting true crime episode.

We'll start by looking at the crime scene, looking at the murders themselves, it's no, you know, some of the victims a little bit, then we're looking to law enforcement's investigation into these murders, which will lead us into a little exploration of Albuquerque's criminal underbelly, which will then take us into some stats regarding violent crime rates for female victims in the US, especially those who are sex workers,

followed by an examination of the main suspects and the West Mace of Bone Collector Case A few men in particular especially looked like strong candidates for being the dirt bag responsible for these murders. If these murders are somehow solved, I will be shocked if one of these pieces of shit is not responsible. Finally, we'll wrap up by taking a peek at a few other serial killers who've also killed sex workers and may be out there on the loose. One actually, recently not in the loose, so that's exciting. What we're not gonna do today is definitively

solve the case, such a frustrating murder mystery, such a cold case. There was a great deal of urgency concerning discovery in the identity of the killer or killers when the bodies were first discovered, February of 2009, of course there was, but now more than a decade later, who the killer is or who the killers are remains a mystery.

So many dead bodies, so little evidence. There will be no timeline today. It's not that clean of a story. Let's just start off and head to West, West Mesa, New Mexico. Start telling this tale. The unincorporated area of West Mesa, not the West Mesa neighborhood inside of Albuquerque, but the actual West Mesa area outside the city. Sit south of and just outside of Albuquerque on a high desert plateau rising up over

the Rio Grande, one of the principal rivers of the Southwestern United States, Northern Mexico. Just a few decades ago, the landscape of West Mesa was one of tumbleweeds and sunburnt desert competing for space with half built subdivisions and trailer parks with names like desert spring flower paradise hills decades ago West Mesa was almost nothing but desert hardly populated western outskirt of albacurkey. But in the 1980s when albacurkey began to really grow quickly West Mesa saw significant growth as well.

The population jumped from roughly 40,000 people back in 1980 to roughly 200,000 people today. The area's been populated for a long time, but was rural until fairly recently. The Tenoan and Caracen people settled in the area sometime in the 13th century. Today, a neighborhood in Albuquerque is named Tenoan East.

Historic tribal pueblos and petroglyphs still surround the city. Before them, unknown nomadic peoples had lived in the area going back roughly 12,000 years. Then the Spanish bound to the town known as Albuquerque in 1706. The name coming from the Latin words Albus and Quercus means White Oak. Still standing church is in town from that era San Felipe, De Niery, was built in 1793. New Mexico became a part of Mexico in 1821, then part of the United States in 1848. The railroad arrived in 1880,

and yet still as of 1900, the city had only roughly 8,000 people. Then the famous highway Route 66, made it to town in 1926, and dozens of motels and restaurants spring up to serve thousands of new travelers moving into the city by 1960 over 200,000 people lived in the area At the time of today's murders the albacurkey area was one of the fastest growing metro areas in the US as the city spread outward It's downtown died like the downtowns of so many other US cities had died killed by suburban sprawl

Like the downtowns of so many other US cities had died killed by suburban sprawl Big box stores and shopping malls spring up in the suburbs downtown businesses failed were replaced by pawn shops liquor stores Homelessness prostitution and crime Out on the edges of the suburbs tumbleweeds gave way to numerous housing projects They began to crop up in the 90s and early 2000s during a huge building boom all across America Housing development started to pop up all over the place as US economy surged in the early 2000s during a huge building boom all across America. Housing development started to pop up all over the place. As US economy surged into early 2000s, then shit hit the fan and Albuquerque around 2007, maybe late 2006. The local real estate bubble started to stretch too thin.

Home prices began to drop drastically when it popped. 2008, when the national real estate market collapsed and things really popped. Numerous housing developers in West Mesa put their plans on hold like many other developers across america A wave of foreclosures followed now the suburbs that have killed downtown were pretty damn sick themselves west mesa suddenly on life support Many west mesa residents now lived in a new ghost town, you know of a neighborhood with only a handful of completed houses surrounded by plots of land next to them It's only a handful of completed houses surrounded by plots of land next to them that either had unfinished structures on them or remained cleared for buildings that were not now, you know, not going to have anything built on them anytime soon. Many of those spaces still have nothing built on them.

Life and Albuquerque in West Mesa became far from ideal. Still pretty rough. Crime in West Mesa, 161 percent higher than the national average. You have a one in 15 chance of being a crime victim, a high school graduation rate, 19% lower than the national average. Only 67% of area youth graduate high school, one in three don't, it's crazy.

The median household income is 36% lower than the national average, income per capita, 41% lower than average, a lot of crime, a lot of poverty, a lot of deserts, and West Mesa. Good combination for people to go missing and for people to stay missing. And this is where today's murder victims bodies were found in West Mesa. Specifically, they were found just off of West Mesa's 118th Street. 118th Street, South West still runs on the very edge of West Mesa where development meets desert. If you're from the area,

the area where the bodies were found was actually near where 118th meets Senator Dennis Chavez Boulevard, which according to satellite photos and Google Maps, remains undeveloped desert. I scoped out the area, using Google Street View, and truly just to be able to have hundreds of square miles of completely undeveloped desert, sagebrush and reptiles,

it's pretty barren. Back on February 2nd 2009, new resident, Christine Ross and her dog Ruka, three year old Sharpe lab mix were walking down a 118th street southwest. Christine had just moved to the area in the fall of 2008 when she got one hell of a deal on a new house back in the real estate sale of the century she bought a newly built home for uh... i'm guessing probably less than a cost to build it and uh... with her husband uh... not named in articles about the case and uh... and now you know she has been a dog rucka living there christine and

her husband would take rucka for walks around the new neighborhood almost every night taken vistas of track housing and desert projects frozen in mid-development and trash dumped out in desert for as far as the eye could see is living the dream. The trio would walk past scattered homes and question probably all their life choices that led up to the moment they decided to buy that house. Yeah, J.K. Come on.

Some people love the desert. Some people love the hot and dry and sunny days and cool dry nights. Actually, as deserts go, albacryking not bad. In July, the average temperature during the day climbs to 93 degrees Fahrenheit. Yes, very hot, but it does drop to 66 at night. And by October, it's dropping to 46 at night. I mean, it's desert, but it is high desert. Alitude is over 5,300 feet above sea level, much cooler than many other deserts. KB homes, the Southwest real estate development company had purchased nearly a hundred acres of land near Kristen's home in the hopes of building a sprawling subdivision.

That subdivision yet to be built. Instead of purchasing a future subdivision, Kaby Homes, you know, really just bought a burial ground. On Monday, February 2nd, 2009, Kristen and her husband's, and her husband and the dog, the dog finds a bone sticking halfway out of the ground. A couple initially not concerned, but then they take a closer look at Rookas' new find, and they know something's wrong. The bone looks human. So much so that Christine takes it from Rooka,

snaps a pick with her phone, sends the picture to her sister, a registered nurse. Christine's sister confirmed her suspicion. To her, it looked like a human femur. Also known as your thigh bone, right? Is the dry bone, children's song goes? An e-bone connected to your thigh bone, your thigh bone connected to your hip bone. That song goes on and on, is the dry bones children song goes? An e-bone connected to your thigh bone, your thigh bone connected to your hip bone.

That song goes on and on by the way, it's the longest song. Christina and her husband had their dog put down the next day, sadly, a tough call with a right call. I don't know if you know this, but once a dog has a taste for human flesh, you cannot teach them not to crave it. I would do the same thing to my dogs, Penny and Ginger, and a heartbeat if I had to. I talked to my kids all the time about not getting too close to our dogs for this exact reason.

One bone, one bone, I'll kill them both, and I'll bury them in the yard. The dogs, not the kids, I don't think. Christine did not kill her dog. I'm not gonna kill mine, that was all crazy talk. Bojangles is laying under my desk right now, growling. He didn't care for that nonsense. I imagine many of you didn't either.

Easy Bojang, easy Bojangles Easy boating, jangles. Come on, just joking around. And this shit is kicking in by the way. That was he was staying. Oh boy, things are already starting to get a little weird. Uh, Christina, her husband immediately notified the Albuquerque police department. And they officially determined that the bone was indeed

a human femur, APD secured the area around where the leg was found, began to dig into what is now an active crime scene. They figured that odds are, if you'll, you know, if you find one human bone laying around, you're probably going to find more. And they were right. Soon more than two dozen detectives working in the area, along with other experts like anthropologists, medical investigators, as well as a number of other volunteers, the search proved to be extremely challenging, it would go on for about a year. The ground where the femur was found had been prepped for a construction

before being abandoned to the elements. Many of the remains heavily disturbed in the construction process. Despite the remains being a bit scattered, investigators were able to piece together numerous different women's remains. The more they would dig, the more bones they would find. Shortly after they were starting their search

for the rest of the skeleton, that first femur belonged to, they realized they were dealing with more than just one body. And then shortly after that, they realized they were dealing with a whole bunch of bodies. Their search eventually spread across a 92 acre area, huge area to dig up. 92 acres is almost exactly 70 football fields, worth a ground.

That's a lot of earth, a lot of desert to come over and dig into to find remains that had been dumped years earlier. Some of the remains have been buried deep, some of the bones and vestiges on earth have been buried 15 feet into the ground. Some reports, you know, looking into this would say shallow graves, no, no, not shallow graves. Some of these up to 15 feet deep.

Some victims remains were found either partially intact or fully intact making victim identification easier but a lot of the remains you know been partially destroyed again by that you know heavy construction other remains partially destroyed by scavenger animals authorities soon knew they were dealing with something really really terrible like a serviciller but they'd wait a week to make that announcement of the public they still didn't know for sure how many victims were buried in the dirt next at a hundred eighteen streets out west and had no idea how these women died let alone who killed to make that announcement to the public. They still didn't know for sure how many victims were buried in the dirt next to 118th Street Southwest

and they had no idea how these women had died, let alone who would kill them. All they had were a lot of heavily decomposed remains. All they had were a lot of bones. APD made their first announcement a few weeks after the investigation began when they were able to identify one of the victims. Her name was Victoria Ann Chavez, young single mother or two.

She'd fallen to a life of prostitution and drug use, been in and out of jail on a number of prostitution charges. She'd had repeated run-ins with law enforcement and her probation officer before disappearing and being declared missing by her mother in the summer of 2004. Known in her family, he'd actually seen her since June 5, 2003. When she went missing, she was only 25 years old. What kind of drug use that she fallen into? None of the articles written about her say. I'm guessing based on numerous

other articles about area prostitution and drug abuse, it was meth breaking bad did not just choose albacurkey to serve as the serious location because it was cheap to film there. I'm sure that was part of the reason. But also meth really has been a huge problem in albacurkey for quite some time Complete with big Mexican drug cartels that move millions and millions of dollars of meth throughout New Mexico, you know, just like the TV show. When drug use is mentioned in connection to numerous victims in this episode and the drug is not named, I feel it's always a pretty good chance it was probably met. What a terrible drug.

Super dangerous drug. An educational nonprofit called the Global Drug Survey runs the largest drug surveys in the world, arguably gathers the most illicit drug data in the world to help health care professionals and policymakers around the world understand which types of drugs are most prominent among certain populations, which drugs appear to be on the rise or on the decline and how drug usage affects the health of populations worldwide. And in 2017, meth was listed as the world's most dangerous drug because roughly 5% of users would worldwide end up requiring emergency medical assistance after taking it.

It's a cheap, dirty drug, highly addictive, often mixed with dangerous chemicals when it's cut down to be sold on the street. It's not a super safe and fun drug to use like shrooms. The same study said that everyone should use shrooms. It even babies can use them. That's probably should. Said put some magic mushrooms in those bottles and sit back and enjoy the show. Jeké! No, Jk. I'll wait until you're older kids. Then maybe do hallucinogens. Just don't do them their knives or other weapons or do them on the roof or near an open elevator shaft or near a busy street or around people you hate or you fuck, you get it. Just like not every place, the safest place to get hammered,

not every place, safest place to trip, PSA over. And I do wanna say by the way, cause this is my mind now. This was a space or chosen topic. So I didn't pick this topic to do Shrooms 2 cause I realize I'm fighting these thoughts as like fucked up, it's this dark story but my mind's real happy right now.

But I want you to know that my mind's not happy about the content. Back to the remains of the first victim, Victoria Ann Chavez, his femur that Rook had the dog had found, it was her body that was the first to be excavated. She'd been buried just 18 inches under the dirt, and no clothing or any other personal items were found near her completely decomposed skeletal remains. So some shallow graves, some don't. Her dental records were the only thing that made it possible to identify her. No DNA evidence was found near the bones. And you blood or semen from a possible murderer

that may have, you know, one time been on or near her body, long gone by the time investigators dug into the dirt around her. No murder weapon, no clue of any kind found near her body. Her remains so badly decomposed, she'd been in the ground for four to five years, the cause and time of her death was impossible to determine. Now how she was killed, impossible to determine. On February 21st, 2009, police find the bodies of two more females.

Two days after that, a fourth woman is found. Four bodies, and they're far from done digging, the remains of her unborn child, somewhere near the start of the second trimester also found along with the fourth victim, so an unborn fifth victim. The fetus is bone to be submitted to a medical examiner and in the lengthy process, it takes several months to learn more. The fetus was found to be around four months long to begin into the second trimester, speculated

that the woman may have not even known she was pregnant. The pregnant woman also identified through dental records, Gina Michelle Valdez. Yeah, there we go. Gina Michelle Valdez. Gina went by her middle name Michelle was the oldest of three sisters born in 1982, seems as if she was a good kid, who fell into the wrong crowd in a bad area.

Relatives former friends with Sasha came from a good home. She was loved by her parents, and then like a lot of teenagers she rebelled, and her rebellious phase just took her further and further away from the straight and narrow She gave birth to her first child as a teenager seconded to a couple years later by the end of her teen years She's gotten wrapped up in Albuquerque's criminal underworld pretty well and had become a known prostitute and the heavy drug user Buck and math When her remains were identified her mom had this to say of her daughter

She was a very fun loving girl always had a smile on her face and she was just bright had this to say of her daughter. She was a very fun, loving girl. Always had a smile on her face, and she was just brightening up a room with her bubbly personality. Everybody has faults, and hers was drugs. She was still a human being. She was a good big sister. She always looked out for her sisters, and she was a mom who cared about her kids' accomplishments. Drug addiction certainly wasn't the lifestyle she wanted. She wanted to help, but she didn't have money or insurance,

so it was very hard for her to get help. In February 2005, she'd been reported missing by her. Our father, Daniel Valdez. Valdez, why am I saying Valdez like the city or something? I believe that she was killed around the same time as Victoria Chavez sometime between 2004, 2005. Her remains again so badly decomposed that an exact time of death simply

just can't be given with any certainty. In a press conference held on February 25th, 2009, Albuquerque Police Chief Ray Schultz declared that the West Mesa crime scene was one of the largest crime scenes in Albuquerque history. It would later be declared as the largest crime scene in Albuquerque history. He also said to the press conference,

we have linked two of the victims with similar lifestyles now. That gives detectives a good place to start. This is where the real work begins. At some point in time, their lives crossed paths, whether it was with each other or some other individual who was involved in their deaths. While he never said they suspected the serial killer, it did seem like he was implying it. Later that month at another press conference, he'd say, the remains are all old. They've been there a number of years. Had we been finding fresh bodies, I'd be much more concerned.

Everybody can be reassured that there is not an active serial killer, an albacurkey actively killing and praying on people. An unknown, but size will number people in the community, especially sex workers, did not respond well to that sentiment. Seemed dismissive. By this point, while only respond well to that sentiment, seemed dismissive. By this point, while only two women

had been identified, the remains of eight additional women's bodies have been found digging continued. Police knew that at least 10 women had their bodies down for the community of West Mesa. West Mesa met the open desert south of Albuquerque just off 118th Street, Southwest. It might have been downplayed in the possibility

of an active serial killer, but they did know a serial killer was responsible for the bodies they'd found. They said no if this person was active or not, because they hadn't found any fresh bodies. One detective though, Ida Lopez, she'd been worrying about a local serial killer for years. She compiled a list of female workers, sex workers, and other local women who got missing between 2001 and 2006, more undetected Lopez in a bit. For now, I just know that her list helped identify two more murdered women whose remains had just been uncovered. One of these women went by the name Cinnamon Elks. She was next to be identified. She was the oldest victim at 32 with the time of her disappearance. Her story is similar to the previous women. She'd fallen into similar pitfalls. She was a perfect

child according to her mom, Diana Wilhelm, but then during her teenage years she started to experiment with drugs and her life spiraled out of control. According to Diana, cinnamon became addicted to alcohol and drugs and soon had a rap sheet as long as her arm. She was arrested 19 times for prostitution and or solicitation. 14 convictions would be arrested at 12 additional times for drug possession, resulting in giving a, resulting in another, excuse me, five convictions to support a drug habit, cinnamon stolt checks, forage day and his name on him.

When that income stream was taken away from her, she turned to prostitution to earn money she needed for drugs. Because of her drug dependency, cinnamon missed out on raising her two kids, meth strikes again, right after her final rest in July of 2004, she disappeared. In August of that summer, her mom reported her missing

after she neglected to call Diane on her birthday, as she'd done every year, no matter what was going on, when Diane made the report to it's allegedly told by officers, something along the lines of adults had the right to cut off contact with anyone. Now this would be a theme according to many members of the victim's family to smithle, only the mass grave would bring real attention

to these cases. Before you get too upset with Albuquerque police, you know, we'll find out soon that they were underfunded, legitimately didn't have time to track down missing 32 year olds. They were busy trying to solve numerous unsolved murders and other cases where they knew for sure that a crime had occurred.

An investigation into Cinnamon's disappearance was officially started in December 2004 by that time there were few of any leads to follow. Her parents would submit her dental records to police, and more than four years later those records will be used to identify her body when the dental records from her skull were compared to the dental records of missing women on the detective Lopez's list. Interestingly, when sentiments remains were pulled from the site and identified, Diana told a place in the public that her daughter had known personally the first two identified victims. Well, this was important information and it would be thoroughly investigated. It was also overshadowed publicly by yet another victim being identified around the same time. I'm going to

talk about that victim now and man to stuff is kicking in hard. I, uh, the screen has texture now. The, the walls have texture. So that's new. Uh, the fourth West Mesa bone collector victim to be identified was Julian Julie Nieto. Scribe is a very petite woman. Julie Nieto was always small for her age.

So small that when she was a little kid or mom said that Julie often sowed or altered her own clothes to make them fit, she grew up an albacurkey south valley and low lunes and love chili peppers and love to jump rope. She later went into the job core, helping to teach underprivileged young people different professions. She was a real good kid. Her mom, Eleanor, a griego said Nietto started doing drugs and she was around 19. She tried to get her treatment, but Julie didn't want it. I can met the gang probably. Grego says that she last saw Nieto then 23 in August of 2004

at Grego's dad's house. Grego's dad's house, she left behind a young son who Grego said she had doded over. She said she was a great mother. She wouldn't let that boy go for nothing. He cried and cried for her. Two years after Nieto went missing, her sister Valerie Nieto was found dead in a motel

and his poor family. On central avenue after overdosing, again the drug not named, her mom said she couldn't handle it. She was depressed all the time, crying all the time. Julie was the only sister she had. When her mom found out that Nieto was one of the girls found on the mason, she said, I collapsed crying. I was upset.

I just buried one daughter and now they find the other one. Whew. And yet it was charged with prostitution convicted four times according to court records. Now that four victims have been identified in investigators and started calling the plot of land where the bodies were found to pit. Patterns were being discovered, more patterns

between the victims. Besides sex work, drugs and tragic transient lives, right, the four women Besides sex work, drugs and tragic trans-y lives, right, the four women first identified were also members of a local Magic the Gathering group. They met up once a week down at the Electric Cave on Central to play Magic the Gathering. This connection would lead detectives to place an undercover agent and local Magic the Gathering

tournaments and she was able to play well enough to crack an underground ring of illegal matches. Partially because her department paid several thousand dollars for her to have a sweet stack deck full of Zeron orbs, legendary creatures like Rith the Awakener, powerful sorcery spells like maelstrom pulse. These underground magic to gathering matches were hosted by drug cartels where winners would make six figures. Cheaters sometimes ended up having both their hands cut off so they weren't able to play

again. At least a few cheaters who tried to take cartel magic money by betting against themselves and intentionally losing were burned alive and their magic decks were used to help start those fatal fires. Of course, of course that didn't happen. I knew that was a lie, but because of the shrimp, going on, I'm like, God's fucking crazy. I wish crazy drug cartel magic gathering tournaments were a real thing. What an amazing visual that is. Hardcore, you know, like Messcell and Gangs who are sitting around, some fold-out tables

in the comic book shop basement, putting down huge bets on whatever magic nerd. I thought I had the right combination of strategy spells, counter spells, monsters, and mana. Come on mother fucker, how the fuck do you not play lightning helix? It's an instant, it's an instant you dumb shit. You just cost me 25 lards because you don't know how to fucking play the most basic card in your hand. You don't, you don't, you really don't play your, your psychotech when you have 10 cards in your hand.

Big killin', J Rock, we're right, you're foolin' that Jenkins. So I know that was so random, but I had lightened things up for a second. Lights moving on me. There was a real connection between the first four victims. It was not magic gathering. There's a fact that they'd all known each other. Detective determines that they ran in the same social circles, and all four had also disappeared

within the same six-month period of time. Unfortunately, this connection did not lead to the murder. No one from the girls can join social circle as ever looked at seriously as a suspect. Please still downplay the serial killer elephant in the room at press conferences, presumably to quail public fear. Privilege, again, they had to have known a serial killer was most likely the perpetrator of these murders. Now, they continue to go through their case files, missing sex workers over the past decade and a half, hoping to identify more victims who are almost certainly murdered by the same person,

or at least by the same group of people. It'd be incredibly rare for different sets of killers, two killers to more killers to leave bodies in the same dumping ground. There's a lot of desert around Albuquerque. The odds of different murderers working independently in that same area at the same time, killing victims all engage prostitutes victims who knew each other and Then dump in their bodies in the exact same spot gets the fuck out of here highly unlikely

Outside of a serial killer and investigators did also told with the possibility that the women may have been dumped there by a local pimp Maybe by gang it might have been dumped in bodies in West Mesa By March 2009 various members of the public were coming up with their own theories as to who killed these women as well dianna will help cinnamon's mother reported right after her daughter was discovered uh... miss or just your her body her right after her daughter's body was discovered

uh... that she heard some disturbing rumors during the roughly five year gap that cinnamon it was missing dianna hurt from her daughter's friends that just prior to her disappearance, Cinnamon had been telling people about a quote, dirty cop that was killing sex workers in Albuquerque. At the time, Cinnamon had specifically told people that this unnamed dirty cop had been chopping women's heads off and burying them in West Mesa. Some time later, Diana would claim to have received several phone calls about this that added to her fear. No dirty cop ever made it onto a list of suspects and the remains did have the heads. So not likely this happened.

Diana told reporters that people have been calling her a teller that her daughter had been decapitated, bearing West Mesa. Is that what happened to cinnamon? It was never reported that she was decapitated due to the condition of her remains. No cause of death was ever given because cutting one's head off requires obviously you know requires obviously cutting to the spine i would think even if the head was also there that there would be evidence that would show up in a forensic examination uh... if it did it was never mentioned to the press diana claims these phone calls reported police at the time

and were never to her knowledge followed up on and diana was not to the only mom to hear these rumors. Karen Jackson, the mother of victim Michelle Valdez, or Valdez, she heard similar stories. Karen knew that her daughter Michelle was close with Thinman Elks, and she heard rumors that the two had been stabbed and buried out in West Mesa. Karen report before the pit was discovered that Michelle's sister Camille, Camille, had gotten a phone call from one of Michelle's friends offering condolences as saying that she'd heard the Michelle had been quote stabbed a bunch of times and thrown

out somewhere. Did a local cop kill these girls? I mean, I guess it's possible. The murders remain unsolved, so you know, a lot of things are possible. Based on some of the suspects, we have coming up though, I don't think it's likely that a crooked cop killed these girls. I think it's likely that a regular old civilian dirtbag did it. One I will mention soon. Oh, let's actually look at a good cop now.

The one detective who had been compiling that list of missing sex workers years before the pit was ever discovered, detective Ida Lopez. Lopez had grown up in Albuquerque, was an spirited young age to be a police officer by her grandpa. She became an officer for the same reason that most do to try and do some goodness world. After graduating with a bachelor's degree in criminal justice in Spanish from the University of New Mexico, Lopez attended the local police academy. I don't know when she graduated, personal details or sparse for detective Lopez.

I do know she was the undercover officer who infiltrated those not real underground magic gathering played the death tournaments. I mentioned earlier when I made that up I know that for sure in my heart of hearts the magic mushrooms they told me that was true. I told me that was true somewhere I also told me that the wall has been in behind me uh after graduating from the academy Lopez joined APD is an uninformed officer and after several years He kicking ass for her city on the streets. She became a detective She would consistently find herself in a part of the city that the Albuquerque journal described as the war zone in 1991

2009 I wish you guys to see right now. This is fucking crazy Doesn't not pertain to the story at all, and I know it's not gonna matter, but oh man I'm not looking the same wall right now that I was looking at 15 minutes ago 2009 the New York Times would call the area a neighborhood of housing projects heroin and sex shops near the University of New Mexico Great heroin and meth A lot of bad candy to be had in the roughest neighborhoods of Albuquerque After a leave after a leave of absence due to a battle with a few personal health problems Lopez returned to work Folks on the areas missing people one of those people was Michelle Valdez

The second West Mesa victim identified right the one who was four months pregnant as Lopez dug into Valdez. The second West Mesa victim identified, right, the one who was four months pregnant. As Lopez Doug and Valdez is chaotic in tragic life, she started to see similarities between several other Latina women who had gone missing from the war zone. She started her list, and it would soon include 24, two dozen young women. Only 17 would have available dental records. Before some of their bodies started turning up in the pitch, she had a hard time getting the support of her fellow officers to try and track these women down, find out where they went. In 2007, two years before the bodies began to be found,

a journalist named Maggie Shepard, she did want to help Lopez. She went along with the right along with Lopez, two guys to talk about her list. Maggie noted that law enforcement was not very interested in time, it falling up on the cases. She said in an interview on NPR in 2010. They weren't trying to make it seem like anything other than what it was, a list of missing

prostitutes. The disappearances did interest, Shepard, and she wrote in, you know, they did interested this reporter. She wrote an article about him in the now-defunct, Albuquerque Tribune titled The Missing in September of 2007. It included pictures of 16 of these women. The article did not pick up much team and Detective Lopez's list. We continue to matter to almost no one other than Idle Lopez and Maggie Shepard until 2009.

By the time Spring of 2009, rolled around investigators had found the remains of three additional victims of the pit, bringing the body count to 11 women and one unborn child. It would take nearly a year to identify them all. And if it wasn't for low-pays and their lists, several of them may have never been identified. Here are all their names and their age is the time they disappeared. Also, all but one of these victims Hispanic. Jamie Borella, 15, my god, man, 15. Monica Candelaria 21 Victoria Chavez 26 Virginia and Clovin 23 Sylvania Edwards or so or no, I'm sorry Selania Selania Edwards only 15 years old and the only African-American victim

Cinnamon Elks 32 Dorine Marquez or Marquez excuse me 27. Julie Nieto, 23. Veronica Romero, 27. Evelyn Salazar, 23. And Michelle Valdez, 22. Now for a little bit about the victims, you haven't already met. Jamie Burrell, 15 last time,

was our 23 year old cousin Evelyn Salazar, heading to a park at San Mateo in Gibson, Southeast, in April of 2004. That's fucking crazy. San Mateo in 2004, I worked at a now long closed comedy club in Albuquerque. It was located on San Mateo in 2004 called LAS, very original name I know, right down the street from this park. Weird to me to think about is that there's a small chance I could have seen one of these two women or both.

I was at least in their town around the time it disappeared and not far from where they were last seen. Neither woman ever seen again until their bones turned up in the mass grave site on West Mesa, or you know, at West Mesa in 2009, man. Jamie, the final skeleton to be identified almost a year after the first bone was found. Unlike the other West Mesa, victims, Burrellah had no known prostitution or drug arrests. Her cousin Evelyn, like camping and outdoor activities, was a good cook, taught her daughter how to roller skate according to her obituary.

She'd been convicted of prostitution only once according to court records. Another woman whose bones were found in the pit, 21-year-old Monica Candelaria. Sheriff's deputies investigating the disappearance of Monica in 2003 heard from her friends that she'd been killed and buried on the Mesa Turns out those friends were right

Which you never showed up detective turned it over to Bernalio Yeah Bernalio County Sheriff's office their cold case unit the case stayed cold and tells you it's identified as one of the women found in the Mesa in 2009 She was last seen there near a tree scco in Central in Southwest Albuquerque. Deputy said she lived a high-risk lifestyle. May have had gang ties. Convicted a prostitution once according to court records. Her obituary highlights a happier side saying Monica enjoyed laughing, joking, taking care of babies, and spending time with her family. She will be remembered as a loving daughter,

mother, granddaughter, niece, cousin, and friend who will be truly missed. Next is a 23 year old Virginia Clovin. She grew up in a small trailer heated by Woodburn and Stove and Lo Chavez. She was funny, loved doing her makeup. I was a favorite in school. Her dad, Robert Clovin said in a 2015 interview,

she was a really humorous girl. She would take everything and stride. She would try to lie to you. Then she would come in and tell you the truth. Always two minutes later, her teacher's always wanted to adopt her. Another good kid, man. All this shit's so sad.

And then Trajistrucker family, she said suddenly, and she said goodbye to her high school, said hello to try to make it on her own. Her brother was shot, killed on a homicide. They would later be ruled self-defense. When this happens, Virginia runs away from home, and then she's only 17 years old. A brother or hers runs away as well.

Her dad said they just said that they couldn't stand anymore for a little while, she lived with her grandpa in Albuquerque, but then she went to live with a boyfriend, and then more tragedy struck, man, some people was fucking, the blows are delts. The boyfriend she goes to live with gets boy friend and then more tragedy struck man some people is fucking the blows are delts. The boyfriend she goes to live with gets hit by car. He goes into a coma and then while he's in a coma she has no place to live and I guess she doesn't want to go back home. She ends up living on the streets

of Albuquerque's international district. Years so later Virginia calls her dad to ask what he wants for his birthday. He asked her to clear up her citations, and then they're supposed to meet in Abercorky. And he said we went to go meet on her birthday after court. She said come to grandpa's, but she wasn't there. After that, she just vanished. And what a fucking nightmare for any parent. Robert Clovin and his wife search high and low for their daughter, the tape pictures of her on the cab of their truck, drove through the senior parts of the city.

Last heard from her in June 2004, she called to say she had a new boyfriend who had just gotten out of prison and then she was probably going to marry him. Robert Clovin said in 2009, we said we'd like to meet him, but then we never heard from her again. After that, everything just went dead. Then Robert Clovin reported his daughter missing four months later in October 2004, only 23. He hadn't heard from her in years. Then Robert Clove and said he never expected detectives

to show up at his door, tell him that his daughter was dead. He said, we just couldn't believe it. We were hoping it was a mistake. In the back of our minds, we still thought she might be out there. Now, years later, his daughter's death still haunts him. Says he doesn't celebrate holidays anymore. Says he sleeps in the living room instead of the bedroom, whereas kids I guess would have been and it's poor bastard. He said, when you lose a kid, it's the hardest thing in the world, I think. I've lost other family members, but once your daughter is

son, it hurts worse. Fuck. Salania Edwards stands apart from the other West Mesa victims. She had no known friends or family, was run away from a foster care situation in Lotton, Oklahoma. One of the youngest victims, not counting the unborn baby of course, just 15 years old, just like Jamie Burrell. And as I said earlier, the only African-American victim, she never knew her father, last saw

her mom when she was only five. Police think she might have been a quote unquote circuit her mom when she was only five, uh, police think she might have been a quote unquote circuit girl, meaning she was traveling alone on the along the I 40 corridor or as a prostitute. Man, what a fucking tragic start to her life. Dad never round. Mom's gone at five working as a, uh, uh, interstate prostitute by the age of 15 and then a murder victim before she turned 16, just so much sadness, feeling very lucky right now. Early in the investigation, the tips are told investigators, the Edwards was seen in Denver in the spring and summer of 2004.

The tips are said she had been in a motel on East Coal Facts Street in Denver. The then APD spokeswoman Nadine Hamby said in 2009, they were high prostitution areas. Police believed that she may have been traveling in a group. Hanby said we've received information that Selania was associated with three other females. They may have gone by the aliases, chocolate or Mimi, or the she may have gone by those aliases. Our early on investigators hoped Edwards' background because it was different from the other victims, might provide details that could lead to a crack in the case.

I did not. Police released photographs of her fingernail, which had a distinct painting design on it to media outlets and both Albuquerque and Denver in hopes that someone who painted the nail might come forward. That just didn't happen. Or if it did happen, you know, the investigators never shared that with the press. Doreen Mark, Mark is 27, another victim. She loved jewelry, fashionable clothes, had a huge personality, according to her friends and family.

She always did her hair, always did her nails, always look beautiful, her friend Fred Ricca Garcia would say later, the girl was gorgeous. She was not the one to say, I'm gonna pull my hair back today. I don't care how I look. She went to West Mesa High School where she was a cheerleader. Later had two daughters, who she was totally devoted to, throwing extravagant birthday parties for them, but then as the girl got older, Marquez's boyfriend, he became incarcerated.

After that, she's now raising the girls alone, and then she turns to drugs. She started spending less and less time with her daughters, started leaving them with her sister, other family members. I had kicked her out of my house. That was the last time I saw her, said Julie Bubbles Gonzalez, Marquez's sister. I just told her, you know, it's better if you just go. Whenever you feel like you're

not going to use or you just want, you know, somewhere to come and eat, shower, whatever my door is open, but then she never came back. Man, she would do the right thing, but doing the right thing, how am I still haunt her? Fred Rikigar, I see you said the last time she saw Marquez, she told her, you know, that she'd like to help her deal with her addiction, but then Marquez refused. It's not like she lived this lifestyle from 18 to 27, Garcia said. It wasn't like that. It was like the last year of her life, she started having problems.

Before that, she was such a really good mom. She was around 27 when she disappeared, friends say. Police reported that she was lasting, dropping a child off at Calvary Christian Academy on lead Southeast near university on October of 2003. Unlike many of the other women whose bones were found in the West Mesa, Marquez did not have any prostitution arrest. But police did believe that she engaged in it nonetheless. Now many years later, her daughter still decorates

her mom's grave with butterflies and wind chimes. Finally, the last known victim. I have not introduced Veronica Romero 27 reported missing by her family on Valentine's Day, 2004. Like many of the other victims, Veronica, once, you know, very promising life, and then it took a detour into drugs and prostitution, and, you know, she had to fall into prostitution to feed the drug habit. Little L seems to have publicly have been written about Veronica.

Now let's talk about Albuquerque's mean streets. I didn't want to crack out of respect for the victims of it. Holy shit, my mind is bending hard for each of the victims I was talking about. The tech showed up in a different color. It was blue for one. it was pink for another. I know it's none of those colors, but that's what my brain is processing everything has. And I was, I had waves going through me for one of the reads, and then for another read, I was vibrating. So, just getting real weird.

Oh, for a mushroom, how weird is that? Little fucking mushroom. It goes in the ground. Once all these women were identified roughly a year after the first femur was found, please promise the families of the victims that solve in the murders would be a top priority. In addition to numerous APD detectives working on the murders FBI profilers were brought in along with other outside investigators who all tried to figure out how the bones these 11 women had wound up in the pit. Officially, the cause of death for all the women was homicidal violence, but the truth

was medical examiners and forensic experts had no fucking idea. How many of these victims were killed? To this day, no witnesses have come forward. There was virtually no forensic evidence found at the site. All the victims' remains have been reduced to nothing more than bones by the time they were found. Hence, the moniker the West Mesa bone collector There were some suspects out. Oh, man. Just like the Alphabet murders episode. There's some fucking dirty birds hanging around everywhere Ah

We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna talk about the suspects here real soon, but we have a little bit more context cover first and Before we get to that context, I do have a real quick here, a little sponsor we have to get to. So it's a little tougher for me today to transition to a sponsor, the normal, but I'm making this happen. There we go.

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That was so surreal right now. Of course, that sponsor is not real. I mean, in my imagination, it is, but you can't go there, I wish you could. You can't take advantage of a real and great sponsor deal, though, multiple deals, please do, as we take a real sponsor break. All right, back to this investigation.

The investigation into the murders revealed a dark side of Albuquerque, southwestern city of over half million people, almost a million in the metro area, where at the time of the murders, the rate of violent crime was still more than double. Right, I still was more than double the national average,

Albuquerque still incredibly violent. As of 2019, Albuquerque's crime rate, 3.7 times the national average, it was declared one of the seven most violent cities in the US by Attorney General william bar albuquerque is and was a city full of victims the city where sex workers members of one of society's most vulnerable populations disappearing all too often many now occurred community criticize the a pd for the way they handle the case especially initially as it seemed like they downplayed

the situation is you know quote just some missing hookers. But is that true? Albuquerque police, of course, denied this sentiment, you know, I mean, how could they not, even if it was true, especially if it was true? There's no way in hell they're going to state that at a press conference. Never going to be a police chief. You're like, do we take the disappearance of seriously? No, of course not.

No, now we take a disappearance of seriously when real people who matter disappear. One thing to be made me and the boy sad about not finding those missing sex workers was knowing that, you know, we were missing out on some freehandies when we were out of them up. Do any of the members of the media have any real questions? I got to get back to confiscating narcotics and handing them over to the cartel to bought me off a couple of years ago. Yeah, I mean, if the police, you know, didn't care about it, they weren't going gonna actually admit that to anybody. The story law enforcement told the press

is that they didn't dedicate hours to finding the missing sex workers because oftentimes people living on the street do lose touch with their families of their own free will. They don't often want to be contacted by relatives who are gonna pressure them to say goodbye to their friends and say goodbye to their addiction, their current lifestyle, turn their lives around.

So there is that reality and that is definitely not law enforcement's fault. And the police said that they just didn't have enough officers available to look for these women because they were critically and chronically understaffed. One APD officer went on record saying one detective was working 92 cases at the same time. Another officer went on record and said that one APD homicide detective was handling an unbelievable 28 homicide investigations by themselves. And if you don't pay it to have enough officers,

handling areas, you know, amount of criminal activity, then a lot of crime that would otherwise be solved is just not gonna be solved. Things are still bad in Albuquerque in this regard and the screen is fucking bubbling right now. So that's been fun. Current Albuquerque in this regard and the screen is fucking bubbling right now. That's been fun. Current Albuquerque police chief, Mike Gear recently said that his department has been

considering bringing in retired officers and outside contractors to help solve crimes. He said we're trying to get some civilian contracts, former detectives that have had experience, helped supplement investigations and continue investigations for those detectives that have a number of cases they're juggling each day. Bringing all this back to the West Mesa murders now like the rest of the world, sex workers unfortunately far more likely to be murdered than the member of almost any other

socioeconomic group or demographic. There are murders a lot harder for detectives to investigate than almost any other victim group. Those who literally work the streets, a lot easier than most to be accessed by strangers, right? That's the nature of their job. They routinely get into the cars and homes of total strangers because many of them are estranged from their families because many of them lead transitory lives.

They're not noticed, you know, as quickly when they do go missing. To quote a recent UK study, it has been estimated that women involved in street prostitution are 60 to 100 times more likely to be murdered than our non- prostitute females. In addition, homicides of prostitutes are notoriously difficult to investigate and as such, many cases remain unsolved. As shocking as the West Mesa serial killers are, they're sadly not very unique in the way of both prostitutes being killed on a regular basis by serial killers.

And in the way of those murders, not being effectively investigated. Well, the number of serial killings in the US has declined in recent decades. Those that do occur are still disproportionately target women. And out of the women targeted, many of them prostitutes, according to FBI data released in 2011, seven out of 10 serial killer victims since 1985 have been women, and most of them

have been in their 20s or 30s. And a 2006 study published in the Journal of Forensic Sciences found that serial killers accounted for up to 35% of all homicides. A 2004 study published in the American Journal of Epidemiology found that based on tracking US homicides from 1981 to 1990, 124 sex workers were murdered each year on average. And that the homicide rate for prostitutes in the US was 51 times higher than the homicide rate for the next most dangerous occupation working in a liquor store. Man, would have working in a liquor store.

Man, what a never of gas liquor store employee was going to be the second most dangerous profession in the U.S. by the way. I feel like 2004 must have been an especially terrible year to work at a liquor store. Now it's not in the top 10 for what I can see. Now the top three most deadly jobs are loggers, commercial fishermen and aircraft pilots, or so says CNBC. I don't think prostitution considered a profession to them making this list. Otherwise, it would have been, I'm guessing, the number one most deadly job. Steven Eger, who teaches criminology at the University of Houston, Clear Lake in Texas,

who is consulted for the FBI, thinks that the prostitute murders take longer than average to solve because there is less public pressure to solve them he said the majority of victims of serial killers or what i called the less dead as far as the public is concerned they are less alive because they tend to be marginalized groups in society in this case drug addicts drug addicts and prostitutes

there's an attitude that permeates the press and the public that uh... reduces pressure on the police to solve the crime at least initially until you've got a number of victims. And my God, my brain is all over the place right now. It is getting so hard to stare at this screen. Yeah! Sadly, a perception that sex workers are seen by some is a problem that you go away may add to their unsolved murder numbers.

Society overall just doesn't seem to care about them as much as many other people. The 49 girls and women murdered by Gary Ridgeway, right? The Green River Killer. It just suck on him and watched in state in the 1980s, 1990s. That didn't receive anywhere near the same level of public attention and sympathy as the college students Ted Bundy murdered in the same state in the 1970s. I think this is attention disparity. Right now it feels like trying to get through this, even just looking at this screen, it's like working with weights on or it's like an obstacle course. Like I know in my brain, part of my brain knows that it looks the same the whole

episode, but just for a second there, it was getting so bright, it felt like I was staring into the sun. I'm like, I don't know how much longer I can stare at the screen. And then it went, and then it waned again. Ah, I'm going to try not to talk about the stuff too much because I know it's so annoying. For anybody just listening to a car, I'd be like, what the fuck you doing, dude? Okay. Alright.

But yeah, I think this attention disparity given to missing prostitutes has a lot to do with society's notion of fairness. It's the thought I had before I take sure of them. So it's a real thought. Looking at things overly simplistically, not taking into account how much influence poor parental guidance, higher rates of sexual and physical abuse, being at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, had on one's future career and lifestyle choices, I think I'm speculating here. I think there's an attitude of, well, you know, you chose to get addicted to drugs. And if you chose to sell your body to strangers and if you choose

to surround yourself, you know, with violent felons and you choose to live in a ratty crime filled kind of motel and extremely low-income neighborhood, and then you get murdered, it's just kind of par for the course. It's the result of your terrible choices. Now, do I agree with that sentiment? No, no way. But I do think it exists and it is fairly widespread. To many, I think, and I stress this is only what I think. When sex workers go missing, it's not seen as tragic, but it's almost inevitable.

Like, well, what did you think was going to happen? And I don't think this sentiment is isolated to sex workers. I think it carries over to impoverished people and to minorities as well based on anecdotal evidence of how the mainstream media covers major crimes. Right, like take this example. One of the times, so I'm most downloaded episodes ever, the mysterious death of John Beney Ramsey.

Why? Why did that tragic death get so much press when kids are killed every year? And it's not like all the other child murders that occur in the US and that have occurred since 1996 have been solved. Look at the Atlanta child murders until a recent podcast until a recent HBO docu series brought them to national consciousness to national attention. The murder of 29 victims between 1979 and 1921, all black, almost all from low income areas.

Most of them kids, very little attention. And the man's suspected of killing them all, weighing Williams, although convicted of two other murders or two murders, never charged with any of the other murders. These murders didn't attract near the attention of John Bene's murder that occurred 15 years a later. And why is that? I think because she was pretty rich and white. Our parents were affluence, they weren't drug addicts,

excuse me, they weren't prostitutes. They seemingly made all the quote unquote right choices. They represented to many the ideal American life, a wealthy white family living a big beautiful home, and then their beauty queen daughter is killed and then there's outrage and there should be outrage. But there's outrage also because it doesn't seem fair, right? People like that are not supposed to ever get murdered.

What's the point of working so hard to attain this big, wonderful life through yourself if your kids can still get murdered? That's something that only happens to the poor, to the forgotten people in America who maybe aren't white, to people like say, I don't know, poor Hispanic drug addicted prostitutes in Albuquerie. And this isn't some big social justice point I'm trying to make here. Just trying to look at this honestly now if you think i'm full of shit believe in crimes like this exposed america's

you know racist and class is immoral biases just reimagined the same crime scene with me what if instead of the bodies of eleven minority women being found in a dirt lot outside albacari ten of whom were prostitutes all of whom came from property poverty what if eleven bodies were found instead in 2009 and in the Santa Monica Mountains? And what if some of the dead young women

were the daughters of white Hollywood execs living in the Pacific palisades, or Malibu with Beverly Hills? What if the other women were young starlets or maybe Instagram models or students at UCLA and Pepperdine? Guess Instagram didn't exist back then, so that doesn't work, but the rest of the place,

how much media coverage would those crimes get? So fucking much, right? Yet if it wasn't for this podcast, receiving topics, suggestions, I don't think I would have ever heard of the West Mesa Don't Collector. I think it's just, I don't know, it's interesting. Also interesting right now is how many colors I'm dealing with.

Okay, almost to the suspect list. Before we dig into it, let's first take a peek at Albuquerque's non-serial killer criminal underbelly and what kind of environment was this serial killer operating? The state of New Mexico had the nation's second highest violent crime rate and its highest property crime rate in 2018. As you mentioned earlier, a big chunk of that

coming from Albuquerque wasn't much better 15 years before that. In the heart of these crimes, the violent crime rate in New Mexico's largest city in 2003 was around 947 crimes per 100,000 in the population. The national average about half that at 475, the murder rate in 2003 was around 11 per 100,000, you know, twice the national rate behind these crime stats, criminal underworld dominated by gangs, according to APD, as many as 246 active gangs in Abercorky and a total of 7,700 documented gang members of the nearly 250 gangs in the APD registry.

Local authorities say the vast majority are small and organized. Well, likely that exists within a few years. But there are some major players, worse some major players as well. The Los Padillas gang, which run crimes in the far south Valley of Albuquerque has been around since 1960s. The organization is allegedly controlled by Jerry Padilla senior who just got back out of prison.

Jerry and his sons, nephews and cousins make up the group's top leadership. Jerry supposedly maintains a good relationship with several local politicians. Good enough of relationship to cover up some murders. I don't know, maybe pure speculation, but maybe despite numerous undercover operations by city and county narcotics police as well as the DEA, the Los Padillas gang has proved impossible to take down.

And they control a significant amount of albacrukey drug and prostitution trade. There's also the West Side, Eastside, Southside, Northside, 18th Street, Bloods and Crips. Several other sizeable gangs. Members of these gangs tend to be much younger, more reckless, less organized, and members of older gangs like the Los Padillas gang, you know, more violent. There's also a small number of so-called motorcycle gangs, which typically are run by more like illegal businesses, you know, complete with elaborate divisions of labor.

Did members of any of these gangs kill the women found in West Mesa? You know, it's possible, again, like a lot of stuff is possible. Other area sex workers have been killed in the past by local gang members, or at least law enforcement, believe they've been killed by local gang members, or local gangs, you know, it's the orders of local gangs. One Albuquerque journalist wrote back in 2009 that members of one of Albuquerque's ubiquitous gangs who use prostitutes as mules for smuggling drugs and then killed them so they can't testify against the smugglers. Yeah, and we're life. 2013, the National Gang Intelligence Center identified at

least 30 Albuquerque area gangs that were involved in either prostitution or human trafficking or both So now we have a little idea of what life could be like, you know if you ended up in albacricky's criminal underbelly rough and unforgiving now let's meet the suspects by April 25th of 2009 the police ended their excavation of the pit on the day, the case was featured on America's most wanted exposed to its massive audience. Unfortunately, no credible leads, no information came from this exposure. Officials continued to downplay the serial killer element to the case, the APD along with other federal officials

put together a $50,000 reward for information on the case. The reward with double by 2010 never lead any arrests. The FBI took on more of a supervisory role in the summer of 2009, assembled a task force of around 40 officers to do interviews, not only in New Mexico, but in neighboring states like Arizona and Texas. This investigation led to the North Side Strangler being a suspect at one point. This is a Milwaukee-based serial killer. This was constant serial killer Walter E. Ellis raped and strangled at least seven women in Milwaukee between 1926 and 2007, but he didn't kill any women in New Mexico.

Also all of his known victims were African-American, not Hispanic. Walter E. Ellis is the only known serial killer to be taken somewhat seriously as a suspect in the West Mesa murders. One suspect who was taken seriously for a while, well, actually, that's not true. There was a more minor, well, I shouldn't say minor, less prolific serial killer, also considered as a suspect.

One suspect who was taken seriously for a while was a local dirt bag named Fred Reynolds. Fred Reynolds, an albacryculative who had spent time in California's Bay Area, died in natural causes. The month before the bodies were found January of 2009. He was a veteran of the local New Mexico sex trade. He worked in Albuquerque as a PIMP. In the city for years, he owned and operated a company called Half Mercy Escorts.

In the last years of his life, had several run-ins with the APD for prostitution-related offenses arrested in both 1998 and 2001. He knew several of the murdered women found in the pit, even had nude photos of one of them. It seems that this pic was a promotional photo. He used to market the woman online with. The police said that they found other photos of missing sex workers in his house never released their identities. The APD would also learn that just months before his death, October 2008 Reynolds had made inquiries into these missing women Even trying to track them down to friends and family one friend of a West Mesa victim

named Doreen Marquez said this in an interview He told me he was a former heroin addict himself and this was the reason he wanted to help the women that worked for him He wanted them to have a good life. So is it possible to a former Pimp? Was trying to make things right towards the end of his life? I mean, yeah, maybe. It seemed that way to a few of the victims' families, you know, he was quickly cleared as a suspect. Soon after he was cleared, another suspect was linked to the crimes. If he had tire tracks discovered multiple times on satellite images, the scene to lead towards his mobile home less than two miles from the pit,

the owner of the home was a huge piece of shit named Lorenzo Montoya. Man, this dude for sure could be the West Mesa bone collector. Montoya lived along was no stranger to the police in December of 2006. A local prostitute named Shureka Hill was in regular contact with the Renzo Online. She arranged to meet with him at his trader on December 17. She was driven to Montaulay's mobile home by her boyfriend and also Pimp, Frederick Williams. He parked down the street, waited for her to do her thing.

After an hour past, Frederick made his way to Montaulay's to see what was going on. I mean, what the fuck, by the way? How weird to be your girlfriend's Pimp? I mean, weird to be a Pimp. Just weird to be a professional exploiter of women. Not good. Extra weird.

I think that the pimp's a woman you're dating. Like, how did she introduce him to people? Ah, this is Fred. Now, Fred is heavily, heavily involved with my pussy. Not only does he sometimes plays it, he also literally sells it. I mean, I don't know if it's fucking so crazy. When Williams returned to pick Sharik up at the end of the hour,

Frederick said he found his girlfriend dead at the hands of Montoya. Apparently, after sex was held, Montoya strangled her, wrapped her in tape, blankets and a cord, started to dispose of her remains. I mean, what the fuck? He did this with her pimped right down the street. Who was this maniac? Williams allegedly arrived just the moment Montoya was carrying it, Hills limp body to the trunk of his car.

And when Williams confronted Montoya, Montoya started to move towards him and William shot and killed him. And a long time friend of the show and former Pimp Chicken Joe strongly approves the shoot. Back by play boy, back by, chicken Joe no for show to street Pimpin is a dangerous kid and got to go. But I just want to pop and let you know that at least Fred didn't let it slide, that his girl was dead and go that low. Don't make Fred some sane, I think we all know that he ain't.

But at least he didn't run, didn't pull the key fan horn, go soft in the paint. Fred might have kept a lot more girls out of the pit when he pulled that trigger and took that clip. Not many pimps can say that they say girls lies, that about his rarer is never getting cut and all you do is play with knives. I just want to give a dirt bag, but some credit when credit is due, he might not have been good, but maybe not bad through and through. You're going to promise to protect some girls, you better follow through and slay those needs slaying you feel me you dig

You hear what I'm saying I do I do chicken Joe That was chicken Joe's way of saying that he approved of Fred Williams killing Lorenzo Montoya and a old inside joke for new listeners I feel like I'm an insane. It's not right now. What how's this my job? Did Fred kill the bone collector? I think he might have. This shouldn't be ruled self-defense and police immediately suspected this was not Montoya's first murder since he seemed pretty methodical

about the killing. Albuquerque police chief Ray Schultz would later tell the media there is a good probability that this isn't the first time he's done a crime like this. This is too brutal of a crime to be his first one. As police delved deeper in the Montoya's backstory, the more they suspected him of being a serial killer. Had they known a bunch of bodies,

were buried in the desert at that time, I think they would have felt like they had caught the West Mesa bone collector. Dirty bird Montoya been arrested several times for prostitution related offenses, including soliciting an undercover detective back in 1998. This arrest took place in the war zone where most of the victims worked.

The next year he was again, come by police with the prostitute who he appeared to be attempting to rape and strangle. He had only two dollars in his pocket, so clearly did not intend to pay her afterwards. Had police not arrived, she probably would have died. Unfortunately for Shereka Hill, she refused to press charges.

She didn't want to have to go through the legal process herself. And I get it as much to dude who was obviously never walked those streets. Can't. I mean, she had her own demons to fucking deal with. You know, she didn't want to trial where her name was going to be undoubtably, undoubtably, dragged through the mud with a trial that wouldn't necessarily end in his conviction anyway. 2003 Montoya rested again for soliciting a prostitute. This was his last contact with the police until his death.

And then upon further investigation, police discovered Montoya wasn't even bigger piece of shit. Turns out he'd been involved in a number of nasty domestic violence incidents. And I just wanna share this before I leaves my head. For a second, I was like, man, I feel like I'm a lizard. I'm a lizard. So yeah, so right now I'm a lizard, you guys.

So I just gotta get that out and then I'm gonna get back to my notes. Okay Turns out yeah, he had been involved in a number of nasty domestic violence incidents 1986 he was arrested for aggravated battery charged with drop by the plaintiff 1994 arrested for domestic violence, but got a deferred sentence despite pleading guilty when question an ex girlfriend of his alleged that he had beat her many times and did quote gross things to her, which she would never fully explain, even threatened to kill her and bury her in lime, which obviously years later, PTSD attention to the investigators of the West Mesa, you know, a bone collector investigation. Then after his death, a bunch of homemade sex tapes are found amongst his possession. Sex tapes he made with local sex workers workers doesn't appear as if any of the women on the tapes

were the women whose bodies were found later in the pit, but a snippet of one of his sex videos was released to the public. It is creepy as fuck. Does not show a sex act. Doesn't show any people actually. It just shows a wall of his trailer but you can hear him.

The Albuquerque Journal released the video on their YouTube channel and here's the caption underneath it. It says Lorenzo Montoya, a man named as a possible suspect in the West Mesa case, made several homemade sex tapes. And one after a period of time, the tape goes dark. A few minutes later, it shows his bedroom and includes what sounds like tape being unrolled. Montoya allegedly killed a woman by stringing her with duct tape in 2006. It's only 37 seconds long. I find it very, very disturbing, says it's so short, I'm just

going to play the whole thing for you. Yee. I mean, it sounds like he's unrolling a rola duct tape. And just a few minutes before this, there was a woman in the room like, where did she go? Why don't you hear her at all? And you hear what I think? It's like, unvolting a tarp or something? Probably what he was going to put the body in.

Very, very disturbing. He killed a sex worker before. He tried to dispose of her body before. He did this in 2006 and then he was killed. According to satellite photos, right? The last victim was buried in 2005. If Fred, you know, hadn't killed this dude, would satellite photos have later revealed

another body being buried in 2006, maybe more after that, also live within a few miles of where bodies were found. The day before Hill was killed, receipt show Montoya went to Macy's and targets, purchased multiple blankets and a comforter. When officers found Hill's body, it was partially wrapped in one of these comforters. I mean, he, you know, obviously intended to kill her. I mean, he, you know, obviously intended to kill her as as of at least as recent as 2016 according to Albuquerque local news. He is still a suspect, but not the only suspect. More dirt bags. About a year and a half after the first bone was found in West Mesa, multiple law enforcement

agencies rated Ron Irwin's home in Joplin, Missouri, what they found pretty disturbing. Thousands of creepy photos of mainly Latina women. December 2010, the APD would release seven of those photographs or seven of these photographs that showed eight women. The pictures are all of these women's faces, you know, taking close-up. And in some of them, the women appear to be dead or at least unconscious. And others, the women are just staring awkwardly into the camera. None of them seem to be super happy about having their picture taken. Not a real good time vibe associated with these photos. So who was Ron Irwin?

He owned a couple of local businesses, including the photography studio in Joplin, and he became a suspect in the West Mesa murders when investigators discovered he had made trips to the state fair and Albuquerque for many years in a row, including the years the women were killed. And the fairgrounds not far from the pit, he'd actually visited Albuquerque multiple times in 2004 and 2005. Police were able to link some of his visit to disappearances of some of the murdered women.

He also suspiciously stopped visiting in September of 2006 around the time the murder stopped. For about a year, investigators kept everyone at the top of their suspect list, but as it then it turned out, he had been in Joplin, you know, 750 miles away during several of the suspected murder kidnapping dates. In 2011, a spokeswoman for the Albuquerque PD, Sergeant Trisha Hoffman, told the Joplin Globe why he was a suspect, that's all in sealed warrants. That's still part of our pending investigation. But at this point, we've been able to eliminate him

as a viable suspect. So Irwin, not the West Mesa bone collector. Lorenzo Montoya is still looking at the front runner, right? For those mass murders, I may not longer, hold the top spot though. He's not gonna hold it for much longer. When I talk about this next waste of carbon, Joseph, Blaya.

Joseph Blaya came to the attention of the investigators when his ex-wife contacted them. Just days after the first biser found, she believed the mid 50-year-old was the killer and had a ton to lay on the cops as far as evidence. That's not a good start. When your ex-wife is confident that you are a serial killer. This dude is a fucking dirty bird. Joseph was an albacrculative who'd been using the pit to dump garbage,

regularly for years because he's a classy guy. Just wants to dump garbage down in nature. She also said that his ex-wife said that he passionately hated prostitutes despite frequently visiting them. So he's that guy, the guy who despises the women he pays to have sex with. Super awesome, I'm so sad we're not drinking buddies.

Blaia's ex told police that he often speaks about his hatred of prostitutes, calling them dirty hordes and sluts, sometimes calling them specifically by name, and check out this crime scene link with this guy. West Mesa investigators found an ID tag for a very specific, not super common plant, buried in the pit when they dug there in 2009. They found it eight feet underground,

so it could have just, you know, fallen there recently, buried along with one of the victims, considered an important piece of evidence, police were able to track the tag to a local nursery and guess who was a regular shopper at that nursery back in 2004 and 2005? Joseph Blaya, dude on the landscaping business, uh, was known to have bought the exact type of plant connected to the pit on a regular basis.

So he became a, you know, one of the main suspects. The more investigators looked into his past, the higher up on the suspect list, his name would travel, uh, Blake had been involved in roughly a hundred interactions with law enforcement dating back to the 1970s. He'd been arrested for burglary many times, including several arrests for breaking into women's homes and apartments to specifically steal their underwear. What a very fucking weird embarrassing crime. We've all had our low points, all done things we're not proud of, but getting arrested for stealing someone's panties. Do you have to make a news set of friends? Once word gets out about that, you have to

accept there's just going to be a lot of whispering about you at every family function you go to for the rest of your life after that. I'm not the most gossipy person, but like gossip, you know, a lot of people do And if I knew that about somebody, oh my god, I'm fucking telling everybody That's the person's in my family. Are you kidding me? You know, hey, baby. How are we looking on the burgers? Gonna get some more of the freezer. We good Uncle Joseph. Why do you want to double cheeseburger? Hey, did I did he show up? Did I didn't know he was here. You know what is the rest, right?

Yeah, the panties. Did I tell you you got arrested twice for stealing panties? I did, a couple of times, okay. Hey can you send Paul over here? I don't think he knows about the story. And baby can you go into the bedroom and just do me favor, just count how many panties you have, exactly in the drawer, right now.

I'll count him again after he leaves. This piece of shit sends to probation. He continues his pervy behavior. He'd be arrested for exposing himself to a variety of women just a few years later. He got a prison for a couple years over these incidents. Dude, two years actually, two years actually in prison

for flash just dick in public. After the panty arrests, I think at that point, you're no longer invited to the family get together, right? I hope not. What's going on in your family? If you still let that son of a bitch come over. Oh man, if he's in my family, Uncle Joseph is the door.

Fuck no, he can't come in. Tell, tell Penny Sniff, Mick Dick Whipper, keep his pants on, find a new family. And prostitution was one of Joseph's of play his main things. Frequent in the company of women working in the war zone throughout his life, as a dull life. After serving time, he get arrested again for a woman to stick out in front of a, oh my God, a bunch of random women in the war zone throughout his life as a double life. After serving time, he'd get arrested again for who've been a stick out in front of a,

oh my god, a bunch of random women in the 21st century. And physically abusive, the real peach of a meat sack, real gem of a man, both of his ex-wives said he was a cruel and violent. In 1997, he was charged with battery in 2008. He was charged with aggravated assault and flicking great bodily harm on a household member with a deadly weapon. Yes, two X wives both confirmed his prostitution habits feelings about prostitutes and generals who investigators Man, and he said these poor X wives who my god so sad how low is your self esteem when you know your husband your abusive husband has a prostitution habit

Ah, fuck it sad and creepy And how creepy is this both of his exes said, Blaya would collect items from sex workers and other women he slept with or claim to have slept with as little trophies, little trinkets. Most of the time, panise. Sometimes also swipes some of their jewelry. Fucking such as cartoonish dirt bag.

When officer searches home, he was discovered that this creepy motherfucker had an quote, an alarming amount of panties. And other way, it's jewelry, stashed around his home. I find that a humorous quote, oh my god, an alarming amount of panties. The guy has a super creep. I just picture going over to his house, sitting on the couch, having a beer, then noticing the, you know, like the cushions doesn't feel right,

it feels like a little lumpy. And then when he gets up to use the bathroom, you know, I check kind of the cushion, and there's like five pair of panties under there. That's fucking weird. Put the cushion back. You know, Blake comes back, you're talking, you just look past Blaya, and there's a few more pairs of panties up on top of the fridge,

he starts thinking, who has this many pairs of panties laying around? You know, you go to set your beard down on a coffee table, almost spill it, because you set it down and earring in another pair of panties. You go use the bathroom. She got a couple more pairs of panties behind the toilet, a couple of necklaces, braced on the bathroom,

counternex to sink. You're gonna walk, after washing your hands, you're gonna dry your hands, you know, you think you're using a towel at first and you're like, oh, I saw the fucking pair of panties! God damn you! Panty sniff, mcdick whipper,

and you're crazy amounts of panties. So clearly it looks like Blake could be the guy. The damning phone call from the ex both exes saying horrible things about him The plant tag to connect him to one of the bodies the fact the frequent in the area where the bodies were found The fact that he knew many of the ladies work in the war zone fact he collected, you know the the trinkets like a fucking serial killer His vocal hatred or prostitutes history of sex crime arrests history of violence towards women No one's gonna be surprised if if officers say at some point, this is the guy. Investigators interviewed some of the sex workers in the area

about Baleia, many said they knew him, and they only had negative things to say about him, of course. In one case, the sex worker said that she had gone back to his house, he tried to tire up, she wasn't into it, he persisted, she broke free, got away, and she warned other sex workers to stay away from old Penny Sniff, McDickweaver. Ah, and what I'm gonna tell you now make some look even worse to do more stuff

funny i just worked on these notes couple hours ago and i'm from for god and everything this is all like a surprise to me as i find out what uh... after two thousand eight arrests for attacking a family member uh... a dna sample was taken when the dna results came back play was definitively linked to one heinous uh... to one heinous crime. It was found to be a potential match for several others. The for sure heinous crime, he was linked to happened 20 years prior in 1988.

A 13 year old girl had been raped at knife point in her own house. My God, by a man who escaped without being identified. She would be the first of many to later identify a panty sniff, McDip Gagler. That was the proper trader. So many, in fact, would come forward, this attacker would become known as the mid school molester. Ugh! Blake was charged with enough kidnappings

and sexual assaults to get a 36 year prison sentence in 2015. He was so guilty, a jury convicted him in 15 minutes. And now the 61 year old will almost certainly die in prison. And there's even more dirt on this guy. Blaze DNA was found in a prostitute left dead on a curb in 1995. He was never charged. A connection with her death.

I see, he's, so you know, but he has been definitively linked to at least one sex worker's death. And it's been reported that in recent years, Blaze has made comments to his cellmates about knowing a number of the West Mesa victims. One cellmate went a record saying that in one case, he said he hit one of the women they found later in the pit after she tried to rob him after sex. So did he do it?

So far, my money is actually still on Lorenzo Montoya, but just barely. And only because he died in 2006, not too long after the body stopped being buried in the pit. Blade was still free and living in the area from 2006, 2008. Did he stop killing for a few years, like Syracilers sometimes do? Or did he start burying women in a different location? All that's possible.

There are numerous other missing sex workers who disappeared during those years. Okay, time for three more possible suspects. Let's see if I can make it. Oh man, my brain's been so hard. Just quick looks at these Derbex. Scott Lee Kimball, Robert Howard Bruce, and Terry Allen Longmeyer. One of these dudes looks real, real bad as well.

Scott Lee Kimball murdered, I mean, they're all pieces of shit, but it looks real bad as far as connection to the West Mesa case. Scott Lee Kimball murdered at least four people between January 2003, August 2004, and Colorado in Utah. While he's been trying for those crimes, crimes he pled guilty to, it was revealed that he had been operated as an FBI informant at the time.

Whoops. It's became a little bit of a scandal. The fact that the FBI had technically employed a serial killer. He'd been hired to help bust a huge meth ring. There we go, meth again. He reported the admitted to a family member that he was a suspect in the West Mesa murders in 2010 That he had been in the area at that time that he was involved in a number of illegal things in New Mexico around the time of the MERS at one point he even admitted two dozens of other murders, but then later denied it

Three of the victims he killed were young women none of them were prostitutes though a search Kimbell's computer after his rest turned up hundreds of photos depicting violent rape pornography. The images were of women who were tied up where in the process of being bound gagged assaulted with a variety of weapons. Although most of the images had been downloaded from the internet, some were not including images of Leanne Emory, a 24-year-old woman who was one of the victims, one of his victims. Thought that he kidnapped her when she was on a speed-lunking vacation, speed-lunking. That is not a word you come across very often. She'd like to explore caves, often doing it on her own, and the last time anyone saw her alive other than Kimbell was when she checked out of a hotel in Colorado.

Kimbell clearly a piece of shit. Don't think he is the West Mesa bone collector though. Another known sex offender linked to the bone collector case, at least for a little while, was Robert Howard Bruce, aka the ether man. That's a creepy nickname. Dunton, you probably won't, you know, don't wanna add to your dating profile.

Don't wanna introduce yourself to other people with that. Hey, name's Bob, but most people call me the ether man. This is my brother, Rayby McGee. Bob confessed to dozens of sexual assaults that span numerous states, including New Mexico, between 1905 and 2007. This piece of shit would break into women's homes, use chloroform to disable them, handcuff them before raping them.

He'd be sentenced to 200 years in prison, good, good. He's believed to have been in Albuquerque around the time of the murders, but like the rest of these dirt bags not charged. Terry Allen Longmeyer was the only, is the only other highly suspicious suspect I came across who incredibly never charged with anything despite seeming to have obviously done a lot of horrible shit.

Terry lived alone about a half mile from the pits when the bodies were buried, known to frequent the war zone sex offenders back in 2004 and 2005. They didn't even give him a terrible nickname. Some women interviewed by police in 2009 said that some of the girls called him the Grimm Reaper because a lot of girls who went for rides with him did disappear. And Terry had been a high school gym teacher at 1.5 to 1999 when he was caught drilling a hole into a girl's locker room.

Charges never filed because he claimed that the principal asked him to do it. He said it was some confusion, something about locating mice in the walls. Yeah, right. And check this out, eight out of the 11 women found in the pit were one-time students of Terry's and it gets even worse. In 2001, Terry was working in a strip club and was fired for kidnapping several dancers putting them in a cage For several hours in his fucking basement one of the women was able to pick the lock of the escaped When Terry went to quote grab some tools. He wanted to try out so creepy The police came to his house charges were never filed because he said the whole thing was one big practical joke

He said he'd touched the way out of it. He said he's about to let them out And they were gonna you know walk and do a big surprise when they escaped. And I guess he came back from the store with a birthday cake and candles and even balloons. So they believed him. He was fired, but the police did not charge him with anything unreal. And it gets even worse, so much worse actually. In 2004, Terry was fired for working at a kinkyo's copy center when he came into work literally covered and what appeared to be human blood. When investigators met him at his house later that day, he actually let them in the home. They quickly found human bones in his basement, three different women's heads in his bedroom, a decomposing torso in another bedroom, yet again, not charged with anything.

How? Terry told police he was trying to get hired as a teacher, hired back. He said that everything they found was part of a science project. He was working on get hired as a teacher, hired back. He said that everything that he found was part of a science project. He was working on, fucking unreal. Fuck, this is nonsense. This is nonsense. Oh, I wrote more, I'll share it with you, because when my brain was not riddled with hallucinogens,

I was gonna see how much further I could take this lie. And I wrote that in 2008, this is stupid, but I'm going to share it. I wrote that in 2008, Terry's neighbors called the police after they witnessed him drag a screaming woman out of his car into the house. They heard him, you know, some gunshots. And the police come over. Terry shows him a gun. They see what appears to be a dead body laying on the floor.

Terry tells him that he and the woman are local actors practicing for a role in a local murder mystery dinner like theater show. And again, he's not charged. He tells them that the obvious murder victim is the meth actor and just won't respond to their questions because he's trying to stay in character. And then I took this live and further. And then I said, it still gets worse. Satellite photos were discovered that showed him taking bodies to the site in his car,

putting him into the ground. It depended in 2004, 2005, he's never charged. Police confronted about the images, he tells him, no, I didn't, and they were like, no, come on, dude, we have pictures. This is you, and he was like, nah, no, it's not. And like, Terry, yeah, it is. And he was like, no.

And then this went back and forth for hours, and the officers finally reached any other shifts, and they had to go home for the night, and the next day, he's forgot. And you got hired again as another gym teacher Maybe I would have been able to I don't know keep that lie going when my brain was working right anyway I was just hoping that people would be always like what the fuck how is he not fucking arrested for any of this So those were all the suspects all of them were real people except for Terry Allen Longmer so many dirt bags

Seems to me there's about a 90% chance that Lorenzo Montoya or Joseph Blaya, aka Panney Sniff McDickwepper probably did do it. One of those guys is dead. The other will likely die of old age in prison. I hope it is one of those guys. That means the West Mesa bone collector is no longer murdering. The case, of course, though, is still an open investigation. On September 21, 2017, design plans for Memorial Park and honor of the West Mesa murder victims was unveiled, the Albuquerque Parks and Recreation Department, City Councilor Clarissa Pena released details after years of working on securing land and funding. And it actually was just finally completed a few weeks ago. June 27, 2020.

I wish I wish more was done, but I'm glad they did something. It's not a big park, it's not a big park, not a big memorial. There's not even a plaque. And there was a little bit of outrage that there wasn't even a plaque given, and I gotta say I understand it. It's just some grass, a concrete semicircle, a few benches.

It's about the size of a backyard, but at least they got, you know, you know, they did something. And they got the location right. The moral does stand just a, you know, feet from the original excavation site. Better than nothing, I guess. I just expected more when I initially heard the word memorial. July of 2018, some more bones founded West Mesa.

Just a quarter to a half mile south of the pit. People originally thought like, oh my God, they discovered another mass grave site for the bone collector. A lot of people very worried. No, turns out ancient American Indian bones likely from the years 1100, 1100 CE to 1300 CE, according to the office of the medical investigator. So not not the bones of more murder, murder victims thank God. But there are still at least 13 women on detective Lopez's list that have yet to be found. 11 women, man, scary case, right? One was pregnant, murdered, dumped in the desert, just outside of Alcurkey. And as much as I hate to say, no one will likely

ever be charged with their murders. You know, the case is about as cold as they come. No hard evidence, just bones, bones, they don't have any perpetrator DNA on them if they ever had any to begin with, no murder weapon, no method of murder, no exact date of the murders. Thankfully it appears that at least something good has come out of these unsolved cases, a better relationship between local sex workers and law enforcement and albacurie. While there are still players on opposite sides of the legal spectrum, New Mexico police are now more willing to investigate rape and assault allegations in the prostitution world. This softer approach of trying to protect sex workers instead of prosecute them has begun to open up a better dialogue between sex workers

and law enforcement, which allows law enforcement to watch over them and protect them more effectively. The goal is to prevent another West Mesa bone collector case from ever happening. I wonder how much better the relationship would be still if a vice was legalized. And I put that in my notes before I was, my brain was where it is now. But then they wouldn't have to be on opposite sides of the legal system.

I mean, I wish prostitution was legal everywhere, and not because I have any interest in pain for sex. I just think it's the safest, most logical choice. Because you know where a lot of prostitutes are almost never murdered, Nevada. The only state in America where prostitution is still legal. Sex workers working in legal brothels are protected by armed guards, they have schedules,

you know, where people know when they're supposed to be there, when they're not, people checking up on them. Isn't that better than just being out, you know, on the cold streets, not being driven to some maniacs trailer by their pant boyfriend. Nevada brothel rooms have panic buttons for girls to alert security if the client gets rough. Also, safe sex encouraged legal brothels in a much more effective way than it is out on

the street. Legal sex workers can't keep working if they test positive for HIV AIDS. The Nevada Health and Human Services monitors legal Nevada brothels and if a sex worker test positive, then they're done. They don't get to work there anymore. I can't know for sure, but I just feel like a lot less marginalized women would die like the women who ended up in the West Mesa, bone collectors pit if prostitution was legal. The only arguments I hear against legalizing prostitution are subjective, morality arguments,

not practical ones. prostitution is called the world's oldest profession for a reason. It's always been around, not going anywhere. There's always going to be people who want sex, but can't get it, or can't get the kind they want unless they pay for it. There's always going to be people willing to sell their bodies, or people who want to. I just think if you can't stop it, why can't you at least make it safer?

Let officers focus on unsolved cases, let them stop spinning their wheels on bus and prostitutes and johns. That's just what I think. To be clear, I did write all these thoughts so again, though, before I was high. This is not the shrooms talking. So what happened to Detective Ida Lopez?

Well, she retired in 2014, moved out of New Mexico for a while, but then she came back just recently to focus on finally solving the bone collector case. I hope she does. Hope she gets some resolution with this. It's aren't good, but I admire her for not giving up. Law enforcement, including the FBI, continues to investigate the case.

The $100,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or person responsible still stands. Tips are still regularly sent in, reportedly in the thousands per year. Okay, now let's look into a few more murder cases before we wrap up. This unsolved set of serial murder, excuse me,

got us wondering here in the stock dungeon, how many other unsolved serial killer cases besides the bone collector are out there today? Obviously law enforcement can't know exactly how many bodies haven't been found, how many people who've gone missing, you know, have been murdered, educated guests, according to the FBI, between 25 and 50, though, 50 just in the US. But the number would be a lot lower for some reason, around 50 active serial killers,

murders who've killed three or more people, usually killing for some sort of abnormal sexual satisfaction. According to one source, as high as 40% of the time, these serial killers get away with their murders, still, which is also surprising to me. Michael Arnfield, a retired police detective, author of 12 books on serial murder, thinks the number of active serial killers

right now much, much higher, more like 3000 to 4000, only in the US. Hoping he is way off. So there are between 25 and 4000 active, uncotted serial killers in the US, hoping he is way off. So there are between 25 and 4,000 active uncotted serial killers in the US right now, all of which have killed at least three people. So that's not disturbing at all. Makes me wonder, right?

How many maybe stopped to gas up nearby the house here before hitting I-90 again? How many in addition to Joseph Duncan anyway? One live here in town, maybe, right? Just because they live here doesn't mean they have to kill Duncan anyway? One live here in town, maybe. Right, just because they live here doesn't mean they have to kill here. Or if someone killing here right now and I just don't know because authorities don't know because the victims, you know, are just still listed as missing. Eek!

Sleep tight with those thoughts, meat sacks. Now, also look at a few examples of more unsolved murders, at least murders that were unsolved for a long time, possibly attributed to serial killers in the US. All these examples involve sex workers as well. And these are all cases I had never heard of prior to about a week ago. The first example closely resembles the West Mesa bone collector murders, the Long Island serial killer murders. Just talked about that on a secret suck.

The unidentified serial killer also known as the Gilgo Beach Killer or also as the Craig's list Ripper thought to have murdered 10 to 16 people in New York between 1996 and 2013. Not all of the remains have been identified, but the remains that have been identified, all women and all sex workers. Their bodies dumped along the Ocean Parkway near Long Island, New York, the towns of Gilgo and Oak Beach. In December of 2010, first four bodies were found. When they were identified,

all were missing prostitutes who had advertised their services on Craigslist. Each woman had been strangled. Each had her body wrapped in a burlap sack and dumped in a wooded area. One of the first victims identified, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, 25 years old, from Norwich, Connecticut, Maureen,

small woman, only four foot 11 inches tall, 105 pounds. Last scene on July 9th, 2007, telling a friend that she planned to spend a day in New York City. She was a struggling single mom who worked as the paid escort via Craig's list to pay the mortgage ever house. Just prior to her disappearance, she got out of the sex industry for seven months and returned to the work in order to pay her bills after receiving an eviction notice.

So sad stuff. And investigation involving the New York state police ensued including a $25,000 reward from formation, you know, leading to her case, dissolving her case, there was a lot of media speculation as to who the killer might be according to FBI profiling. The killer most likely a white male in his mid 20s to mid 40s familiar with the South Shore of Long Island, a man who had easy access to the burlap sacks that he stored the bodies in, the

guy who probably had a relatively strong knowledge of law enforcement, which would have allowed him to evade capture after all these years. In 2011, a New York Times article described the killer dusly. He is most likely a white male in his mid 20s to mid 40s, married, has a girlfriend or has a girlfriend. Well educated and well spoken, he is financially secure, has a job and owns an expensive car or truck. He may have sought treatment at a hospital for poison ivy infection. As part of his job or interest, he has access to or a stockpile of burlap sacks and he lives or used to live on or near ocean parkway on the south shore of Long Island where the

police have found as many as 10 sets of human remains. While no more bodies have turned up in recent years, the Long Island serial killer believed to still be out there, a lot of suspects, with this case, just like with the West Mesa Bone Collector. September 2017, Suffolk County prosecutors named local named local Carpenter, John Bitrolf, as a key suspect. This piece of shit already been charged and imprisoned for the murders of two women who were sex workers in 2014.

He remains a major suspect in the death of the third. The remains of two of the official Long Island Killer victims were discovered very close to built bit Rolf's home. One of the women he was convicted of killing also reportedly shared a connection with Melissa Barthelemy, one of the first discovered Long Island Killer Victims, another possible suspect. James Bissett, local business owner who ran a nursery in the area, and a main supplier of Burlap, what a weird thing to be a main supplier of. I guess somebody has to do it.

A main supplier of Burlap in the region weird thing to be a main supplier of. I guess somebody has to do it. A main supplier of burlap in the region certainly seemed like a major suspect given the killer would have needed to have ready and plentiful access to the material. Two days after Shannon Gilbert's remains were found in December of 2011, visit died by suicide, so obviously suspicious timing.

So maybe the killer's dead. Maybe if he's John Bittroll, he was arrested for other crimes already and is sitting in a prison cell somewhere right now. Or maybe he's living free and listening to this fucking podcast. Maybe when a body's began to be found to Gilgo beach area dump site He started to leave you know future bodies elsewhere like the Mesa bone collector murders. It's another dark mystery a movie released by Netflix March this year lost girls revolves around case, around the Long Island serial killer murders. The movie based on a book focuses primarily on yet another suspect, Dr. Peter Hackett. Two days after Gilbert's disappearance, Dr. Peter Hackett, an oak beach resident and

neighbor of Brewer called the woman's mother, Mari Gilbert. She later recounted that he said he was taking care of Gilbert and that he quote, ran a home for wayward girls, which he did not. Three days later, he calls the mom again, saying that he never had any contact with her daughter. Investigators later confirmed through phone records that Hackett called Mari twice following the disappearance. Creepy, no creepy.

Next up another creep, another dirt bag who was thankfully recently charged with murders of four sex workers in Floridaida after their cases had remained on solve for over a decade very rare for a case that a guy called for that long to finally be solved let's talk about the day tone of beach killer between uh... to uh...

December 2005 and December 2007 four women's bodies turned up in Daytona beach florida all four were killed by gunfire all four believed to be working as sex workers in the area. Police believed that the victims voluntarily accompanied the killer in a vehicle before they were murdered. Their bodies were dumped without any effort to conceal them. The Daytona police used DNA testing to try and locate the killer after determining that the deaths of these women were linked. And for years, no matches came up.

Tips trickled in, led to a whole lot of nothing. Person after person claimed, with a spot at the killer, said that they knew the killer, whenever police would look into these claims, they would run into dead ends. And then on September 15, 2019, so very recent Palm Beach County officials arrested 37 year old Robert Hayes and his West Palm Beach home for the March 7th, 2016 killing of then 32 year old Rachel Bay Bay struggle with drug addiction. There's known to work as the prostitute in West Palm Beach by a mile from Hayes home. Hayes is accused of strangling Bay dumping her body off the B line highway west of Jupiter, Florida. Construction crews

found her body March 7th, 2016 and then DNA found on Bay match DNA recovered from Gunther and Green to the Daytona Beach Killer's victims. And it was Robert Hayes DNA after his arrest, ballistic test connected Hayes to the killing of another Daytona Beach murder victim. Hayes trial for four murders has just begun. So some details of how he was caught, you know, not been made available. And he hasn't been found guilty yet. I think he will be just like with the arrest of the Golden State Killer, genetic sleutie

was what took Hayes down, Florida Department of Law Enforcement Authorities, credited genetic genealogy for helping to solve the case. An arrest report indicates authorities took DNA from a cigarette, but thrown under the ground on Friday or on a Friday by Hayes. And then the following day, they matched Hayes DNA exactly found on three of the victims. If only someone had found the bodies in the West Mesa pit earlier, long before they decomposed, just bones, maybe DNA still didn't could be used to help crack that case. All right, just one more example now.

I'm going to stay in the South, talk a bit about the Jeff Davis 8 killings. Just a little preview here. This could be a future episode for sure. Between 2005, 2009, the bodies, the eight women between the ages of 17 and 30 were found dumped in crawfish ponds and canals and swamps of Jefferson, Davis, parish near Jennings, Louisiana. Jennings is a little roughly 10,000 person town, about 40 miles west of Lafayette. Victims had several things in common, several of them knew each other. One pair of victims were actually cousins.

All the victims acted as police informants, all of them, several of whom actually reported on other Jeff Davis victims before their own murders. That's a very odd detail. The victims also shared histories of drug abuse sticking with today's theme also prostitution first victim loretta lewis 28 years old found floating in a river by fishermen on may twenty a two thousand five and then a second body was found several weeks later by a quote group of frog

hers that's right froggers never heard that term before froggers people who hunt frogs that's probably love these people, Chase frogs. I did a little googling that led me quickly to Louisiana Sportsman.com article called of frogs and men. And the start of the article really cracked my ass up.

Let me read it for you. This is how it starts. Oh my God. Uh, call it. That's a big one. Said 59-year-old Danny Eagle Edgar. That's a man agreed 56-year-old clay switzer. Boy, that's a big one. Said 59 year old Danny Eagle Edgar. That's a man agreed 56 year old Clay Switzer. Boy, he is really big.

His hairy hop doogus, who at 47 is the baby of the group. It's got eyes like alligator, murmured Edgar and wonderment. Tense excitement, blood to the three men, it's a cage and accents. Bull frogs make frog legs. One thing that all Louisiana's agree on from Shreveport to Venice is that frog legs are fine eating. Eagle steered the airboat to approach the animal and clay held in auxiliary light on the unsuspecting creature. Hop lean far out over the bow of the boat and rapidly thrust his hand down into the frog and snastro from the resting spot in the mud and the lilies. Hop quickly popped it through the spring-loaded

door of his frog box. Join more than three dozen of his fellows already in the box. Around three eagle took over the controls of the airboat and hopped at the kitchen. The lights from the airboat burned holes into the blackness of the night and the hunt continued to battle in and the same brush, hop caught as many as claded. Only hops grab was more of a finesse move compared to the smashing power grab of clay. The frogs, the men were catching were mostly very large, some were turbos.

Eagle guests, they had 45 frogs in the box, figuring they had enough for a couple meals for each man. They called it a night back at the boat landing. They counted their catch as they divided up. The final tally was 46. That's the most Louisiana shit I've ever read my life. Three froggers. known as eagle another known as hop get it get the fuck out of here real hop eagle go go and get in the boat I feel I feel a lot of gang of riblets waiting to jump into our traps. Oh

Gibblet toad get the paprika and the bedrooms and the garlicotic powder and the cayenne pepper and the frogon. We're gonna feast on a whole mess of hop tonight, boys. Love thinking about these frogs. Middle age men like just like big kids, yeah? Catching frogs, probably so much fun. Yeah, at least when you're not stumbled upon murder victims. The investigation of the murders of the Jeff Davis 8 has yet to identify a legitimate suspect. There have been numerous suspects questioned about the murders over the years, some even

briefly held by police. Something multiple killers are responsible for the murders, not a serial killer. The main suspect seems to be Frankie Richard, local strip club owner, suspected drug dealer, admitted crack addict. That's crack! Dude who also admitted to having sex at one point or another with most of the victims, he knew all the victims. He was also among those last scenes with one of the victims, Kristen G. Lopez. In October 2019, Interest in the Case was renewed as a result of Showtime's new documentary on the case called Murder in the Bayou.

The doc is based on the book of the same name written by investigative journalist Ethan Brown and it seems like one hell of a read. I think Lindsey would love this read. Brown thinks members of the local police may be behind the killings. It paints a picture of an immense amount of corruption in the in the little Louisiana Tana Jennings. According to Brown's book, as he looks further and further into the murders, evidence started pointing towards not a serial killer of a capture, but a steady escalation of blatant misconduct by local law enforcement. There are allegations that officers had sex with the women who later became Jeff Davis

eight victims. And the task force was Brown writes a near case study in a conflict of interest. Evidence in the Jeff Davis eight case cases had been tampered with or mysteriously lost, including the truck where one of the victims had her throat slashed, a prison nurse and a sergeant who had tried to voice some of their concerns were subsequently fired and Brown connected a politician to all the killings, Louisiana Congressman Charles Bustani. Throughout the years, he'd been investigating the case. Brown had been told that the, that the, uh, uh, Bordro in the former motel were

the Jeff Davis eight regularly went to take drugs and have sex was operated by people who were in politics. After a massive public records request about the in Brown found that it was co-owned by Martin P. Gilroy, a field representative for Bustani. Further digging revealed multiple witnesses who alleged that Bustani was not only present at the board row Bedro in on multiple occasions, but was also a client of at least three of the victims And there's a lot more to this story. It lays out like a real life true detective season

Why not to dig into more of it down the road for a full suck when I have my my mind with me on the Jeff Davis eight All right, so that's today's show a lot of uns unsolved murders out there. The West Mesa bone collecting, the West Mesa bone collector killings, one in the series of many, hope someday all these cases can be solved for sure and closure can be given to the victims' families. What a terrible thing just to not know. And what a terrible way for all these sex workers

to leave the world. Luckily, the overwhelming majority of people, the overwhelming majority of women, also the overwhelming majority of sex workers do not end up in mass graves. Lot of darkness out there in the world, but thankfully a lot more light. I'm seeing a lot of fucking lights right now, my god. Let's take a few peaks back at today's darkness, though, and also learn something new in today's top five takeaways.

Time, suck, tough, five, take away. Number one, while 11 bodies and also one unborn child remains were unearthed from the pit, perhaps more than a dozen other missing albacurkey sex workers could have also been murdered and have yet to be found. Number two, while no suspects have ever been charged in the West Mesa bone collector killings, it's got to be either Lorenzo Montoya or Joseph Blaya, right? I got what a pair of complete pieces of shit. Number three, female sex workers are the most likely people to be targeted for violence

or death by psychos and serial killers. Will we ever legalize prostitution and help end these unnecessary murders? Number four, there are a ton of undiscovered serial killers running around out there. Somewhere in the huge spectrum of 25 to 4,000 in the US alone. One of them has to be Terry out along my right. Fake ass Jim teacher Sikko. Number five, something new. There's an online archive of pieces, shit known as the bad guy list that documents assaults

and attacks against sex workers in the Albuquerque area. If you Google bad guy list, Albuquerque, against sex workers in the albacr curc area if you google bad guy list albacr curc you'll sadly find that these sort of attacks are not rare still occurring big thanks to the folks at street safe new mexico dot org for creating and maintaining this list and working hard to keep sex workers safe in the land of enchantment time to talk five

take away. And that's it. The Shroomed and Doomed West Mesa Bone Collector Suck is done. I hope you enjoyed it. Wow. I had to take a few stops. I'm still, how long is, I can't remember

what, how long it's been since I took some stuff. I don't know. Two hours? What time do we start at the episode? Three hours? That's two hours. It's been about two hours. What time do we start the episode three hours? That's about two hours. It's been about two hours two hours. That's right two o'clock Whoo still still move is still moving on up Hope you enjoyed this I'm gonna say it does it does it crack just cracks me up the alcohol is legal and this stuff is illegal

Because you know a lot of people you know do a lot of violent stuff with alcohol just like domestic violence all that kind of stuff man this stuff I feel like if more people were on this stuff my own opinions obviously like everything on this show but then maybe be a little more peace but maybe that's just because me maybe that's what I'm emanating out of my fucking subcontest maybe if you're a fucking psychopath then I guess you would twist this into violence somehow, but man, I don't know how you could.

Things again for a lot of loudness to make it to 200 episodes. Long live the suck. Come a long way since the 100th episode. Real long ways since the first episode was launched almost four years ago. Oh man, I feel like Matthew McConaughey, right now in true detective time, is a flat circle.

Thank you again to the time suck team. Thanks to Queen of Bad Magic Lindsey Cummins Reverend Dr. Joe Horstcock Johnson Paisley Biddelexer Logan and Kate Keith spicy club run in Bad Magic Merch.com and the socials. Thanks to the script keeper Zach Flannery. Thanks to Liz Hernandez and our all-seeing eyes. You know running the cold to the curious Facebook page which you know a lot of friendships have been made there. A lot of friendships being maintained, a lot of helping, giving

over 20,000 people there now, over 20,000 meat, meat, meat, sex. It's awesome. Thanks to Beefstake and everyone over on the Time Suck Discord channel, where you can link too easily from the Time Suck app, closing on 7,000 Discord users. Big thanks to everyone who continues to rate and review the show, everywhere they can, spread the suck. Thanks for reviewing and reading other projects. I'm involved in as well.

All the love it wouldn't change a thing. The three out of five stars ratings cracked me up. You beautiful bastards. So the best hail Nimrods. Next week on Time Suck, my brain will be back. And where you visit one of the most tragic moments in a modern American history, a turning point for American culture in many ways,

the Columbine Masker. I sadly don't know a lot about this story other than, of course, the most basic facts. A year of planning turned into 15 minutes of carnage that would change America forever. It's two deranged teenagers turn their peaceful suburban high school, one of the safest places on earth previously, and every parent's worst nightmare at Killingfield. 13 students faculty were killed while another 21 were injured. The massacre was supposed to be much worse. At least that was a plan. The perpetrators planned to kill 500 of their classmates by using several types of bombs,

guns, other weaponry, their fantasies, even had visions of stormy neighboring homes afterwards. Hijacking a fucking plane to crash in New York, say all kinds of crazy unspeakable shit. It's a complicated story. Despite access to the shooter's diaries in two decades of hindsight, there's still a lot of unanswered questions. We will try and answer, though, as many questions as we can. If you join us next week for a detailed look into the massacre that started the horrific trend of school shooting copycats in America.

And now let's move it along to today's Time Sucker Updates. Updates? Get your Time Sucker Updates! Kicking things off with the shout out request. I feel like a 70s rock DJ for kicking things off. A little shout out request. Super Sucker, Max Berg, Max Wrights, Dan, my sister is a huge fan of the pod. She turned 30 this coming Sunday This coming Sunday July 5th a Shows out or even a short note in response this would be huge. She's got the whole family listening to you

We love it. Thanks man. Her name is Amanda Well happy late birthday Amanda. Thank you. Sorry. This is late Max did send it in on time So know that may Nimrod and Lucifina give you the best 30th year ever. As I look into a screen that is now fucking moving through the air like it's its own cloud. Now for some super random extra info to add to the Egyptian God Suck coming in from top shelf sack and fish expert Brad Gens, Brad writes, hello Lord Suckington. While listening to the Egyptian God Suck you said, how could a fish eat the penis of a God? Must have been a small incest we.

I did say that. Well, if you look up the Nile Perch, which I will load a picture in with my email, you will see that Osiris could have had the biggest we know to man in the fish, still would have gone with it right up like a Thanksgiving feast. Anyway, love the show. Keep on producing that sweet, sweet suck.

Excuse me, love Brad. Anyway, love the show. Keep on producing that sweet, sweet suck. Excuse me, love, Brad. Well, thank you, Brad. Yeah, had no idea that we've purchased that big before you sent that in. They get up to around six feet long and they can weigh over 400 pounds. That's a big fish. I could eat a lot of wine.

Maybe even a giant god-win. Good call and hail Nimrod. I think Nimrod's sitting right next to me right now. Now a good COVID-19 update coming from a smart ass sack named Cameron Cameron. I'll leave your last name out since this is Inside Info, writes, Hello time suck team, first off. I wanna say I'm a big fan of the show.

Listen to it almost every day while I'm at work. Thank you so much for what you do. Keep up to good work, but thank you. This might be a lengthy message, but I'm a lab tech at OU's Research Park. So I hear a lot about coronavirus research. I wanted to share this with you guys because I think it's really exciting. They have found that the virus binds to ACE2 receptors in various body cells, then enters

the cell through endocytosis where it completes its viral replication. So, there's a lot of research about blocking this receptor and or blocking instability to replicate. One lab I know of has successfully used their drug to kill COVID in a mouse model. I don't want to share too many more details because it hasn't been published yet and they have a lot more tests to do and still need to try it with human models, but they expect results in about a year. It looks very promising. Also, there is a protein cove 2. They can act like a vaccine. By introducing the protein to the body, the body generates antibodies and memory of the virus.

So if the person is in contact with the virus, they will have some immunity and be less affected. I know the virus is seeming to look a lot worse than America right now. So I wanted to share this positive news that scientists know a lot more about how the virus works than it has been reported right now. And then hopefully soon we will have a vaccine

and cure for the public. Hail Nimrod. Well, Hail Nimrod indeed Cameron. I appreciate the work you do, and I appreciate you sharing so much needed positive news with us. I was also reading your notes. It was a bee hive for some reason.

I was looking things were in a honeycomb. That was reading that. That's fun. Hope the progress continues. We all do now a positive message regarding this community, helping someone who lost their previous community, SuperSucker Jordan, Rabby explains Jordan writes, Dearest Dan, Redeemer of the Curious,

savior of those, who question, I started time suck about a year ago and it provides laughter and self-security. I'm an ex-Mormon who grew up in church, went on a mission, temple, et cetera. I researched many aspects of the history of the Mormon church and I realized it wasn't what I was taught, in fact not even close. So at first, I hid my feelings and thoughts for a long time. When I exposed my thoughts and beliefs, it didn't

go over well with my family at all. I visited with church leaders, family friends, and my beliefs were stronger and in opposition to the beliefs of the church because of that, it costs rifts and the belief in the family that everything bad happened in my life. It is caused by me, leaving the church, or there is that belief. It even caused major issues within my marriage. I felt the need to reform and be what everyone wanted. It felt like the easiest route to take to being respected again. It was a lonely, sad time for me. My first episode of Time Suck was the episode of the Mormon Church and I loved it.

Very accurate, listen to more. And more episodes of Time Suck, and I can say it is help with this difficult faith transition and being true to my beliefs. I stand for what I believe and know it's wonderful being different and being what I believe and not what is expected. So thank you for your views and beliefs

and helping this odd fuck feel some sort of belonging in my own world and trust me being an ex-mormon in northern Utah County Is extremely frowned upon and looked as quote bad and my consistency has brought back respect with my family the emphasize with my the empathize with my position now Yours truly from a faithful obedient child of Dan Warm and reference Jordan rabie or as I tried to convince my wife to call me Christ the Jordan. My sacrilegious town is strong due to my background. Christ the Jordan. Glad you found a new tribe. Hopefully I read your email correctly. It became a curtain halfway through. That was also fun. There must have been very hard if you leave your last tribe. I know a lot

of Mormons, a lot of ex-Mormons listen to the show. I hope you continue to make new friends through the show and just in life in general. And very glad you've seen to have recently worked things out with your family. And yeah, I'm just happy that we can be part of, you know, a transition to a happier place in your life. Hail Neymar to you, sir. Now this is a crazy message. Super weird Bruce Lee update from Super Sucker Christian.

Christian writes, greetings team captain of jangles time suckers. My name is Christian last name omitted because it is impossible to pronounce for seemingly anyone not in our family. Writing in from Oregon, I've been on and off time suckers. It's beginning only recently getting a job where I can finally get in more suck. I've always wanted to write in but never had a good reason until now listening to the Bruce Lee episode reminded me of a pretty funny story. My parents told me a while back. They were at a store looking to buy a Ouija board. Note my parents are not wacky to those it was for a joke. And we're approaching the board game section when they overheard something very interesting, a seemingly well-to-do man was

frantically talking to a sales clerk next to the board games. As they got closer, the only line their hearted say, and I quote, where are the Ouija boards? I need to talk to Bruce Lee tonight. It suffice to say my parents took their time to allow him to finish collecting this purchase before picking up their own. I don't know what ever happened to that dude, but part of me hopes he found whatever he was looking for, just a weird story I have about Bruce Lee. Hope you enjoyed it. Christian out. Well, thank you, Christian. I did enjoy it. I hope that dude got to talk to Bruce. I wonder what was so urgent. Do you want to ask him about how Kreme Abdul-Jabbar managed to keep his fucking sunglasses on?

Bruce Lee kicked him in the head about a thousand fucking times during the game of death fight. Glad you're back in the cold to the curious. You have more time for it now. And now one more message. Going to end on a message from an awesome and beautiful sucker who wants to inspire others to leave their toxic relationships behind them. Juliet writes, hey time suck team, as of today I was finally able to separate from a really toxic narcissist in my life. It took a long time and a lot of tears to get through it, but I finally got

there. However, for a long time, I didn't even know that this person I loved and looked up to was actually really terrible. So I was hoping that maybe there could be a suck on narcissism, toxic relationship stuff, things like behaviors to be careful of, what are the red flags to look out for, how to recognize the problem, some tips on how to deal with them, maybe even some good places, websites, people can turn to for help. I don't know, this will even be a good topic or be substantial enough for a suck. However, the start to my long journey of moving forward started by someone just telling me that I wasn't crazy and I didn't deserve to be treated that way.

Maybe if the suck master himself shared some of that info, it might really help some other people. Anyways, I love you guys, love the work you do. It's helped me through my roughest days. Thank you, Juliet. And yeah, thank you, pause. Juliet. Thank you, Juliet.

Happy for you. Not sure if that would make like an entire episode just based on that kind of personality, but I would love to work in more of that info going forward, just in a variety of other sucks. The wrong relationship and the extreme, obviously, can get you killed. Much more commonly, it can just keep you

from ever being happy, from ever reaching your full potential from actually enjoying the time you have here on Earth. Life's short, don't spend years with an asshole. There's plenty of good people out there. You can enjoy your life with fine one Let's get Lindsay in here actually right now speaking good people right some people wouldn't even want their partner to Bend their mind a little bit right now Lindsay's totally supportive of it queen of bad magic here. She is Then I didn't I didn't have to use you really things got weird you had to weird. You had to help me outside of the episode. You had to help me find the bathroom. There was a lot of help.

There were some weird, there was window washers on ladders, which isn't normally how it is out there. True. Sorry, no fuzz. There was that, and then also you've been really obsessed with your glasses being clean. I know, I got it. Well, because the light, if my glasses are perfectly, now things look very different over there.

What does it look like now? It's if you stare at one place for too long, things start to shift quite a bit. It depends on what you're talking about. If you're talking about like if I was talking about like Bruce Lee, then it became Tibetan temples for some reason. Oh, okay. It's like my subconscious and printing textures on whatever I'm looking at. Uh-huh.

You got a good little aura around you, not even you do say aura. I do have a good aura. You know what? What? I knew you were fucked up when I said, do you want some crystals? And you said yes. You have a super good mood. You guys, there are so many crystals on Dan's desk. And if you listen to Scared It Out, you know how much he hates them.

Right now, now that you said that, now I feel like I'm inside of a crystal. What's it like? It's nice. Sparkly. Everything's just kind of chill. That's what crystals do. Good, good, do you? To quote many, everything's just can't chill. That's what crystals do. Good, good, uh, do-ju. To, uh, to quote many, many wacky little good vibrations.

Okay. Good. Don't take them orally or anally. Ha ha ha! This one's for your booty. Thank you, ScriptCupers. Is that? No, it's not. It's too sharp for a booty. But this one's pretty soft.

I don't want any of those crazy, let's go ahead and... Oh, I don't know. That was a nice message, you read. It was? Yeah. Yeah. A lot of nice messages. Yeah, look, we got a lot of nice messages. We got a lot of nice people, isn't it, Chef? People like you.

I hope they still have this episode. I think it's gonna be okay. Okay, good. And keep on sucking, everyone. Get out of the time-scape as you stay here. Oh, yes, sir. Okay. Next time, suckers, I need a net.

We all did. Okay, down here. So that's all for today. Hope I made sense. Don't do math. If you have to be a sex worker, please move into battle and no pun intended when I say this today, keep on sucking. Oh!