Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 206 - The Strange Kidnapping of Patty Hearst

Episode Date: August 24, 2020

Who joins the gang that kidnapped them and held them for ransom and helps them rob banks long after they're free to leave? Patty Hearst did that in 1974. And who the Hell is Patty Hearst? She's the granddaughter of William Randolph Hearst, a man who created the largest newspaper, magazine, newsreel, and movie business in the world in the early 1900s. Patty is the daughter and granddaughter of billionaires. And when she was kidnapped, she was a nineteen-year-old college kid studying at Berkeley. She was kidnapped by the SLA - the Symbionese Liberation Army - a small group of radical, militant communists lead by career criminal Donald DeFreeze. She was, to the group, an important symbol of the "fascist pig" capitalism they despised, and within weeks of being kidnapped, Patty transitioned from captor to communist soldier and became the world's most famous example of Stockholm Syndrome. It's a crazy, extremely unique tale, and I'm excited to tell it, today, on Timesuck. Donating $6600 to the YWCA's Idaho County Fund! To donate yourself to this important cause, go to ywcaidaho.org and earmark your donation to “General Fund Idaho County” by typing that in the comments section of the online donation form. Or call them at 208 743 1535. Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/phblP_ZtXvk Merch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ 2020 online gathering tix on sale now! Try out Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna become a Space Lizard? We're over 9000 strong! Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast Sign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits

Today we dissect the oh so strange kidnapping and subsequent criminal activities committed along with her captors of patty herst aka Patricia herst aka the daughter of Randolph herst aka the granddaughter of one of the richest men on earth when he was alive William Randolph herst patty came from so much privilege she was someone who knew from the moment she could comprehend what money was and what it could do for you that she would personally never want for cash. That her financial needs would always be taken care of thanks to immense family wealth. She lived a sheltered life free from the worries and struggles most of the world faces and

have always faced at least she did until she was kidnapped at the age of 19 by the Symbianese Liberation Army. A group of berthly radicals led by Donald DeFries, born into almost opposite circumstances. Patricia and Donald's lives would collide when Donald had formed a group of radical militants with some friends he'd met in prison, decided to kidnap Patty in an attempt to make her wealthy family feed the hungry of San Francisco, a step towards the destruction of what he saw as an evil oppressive American society built on capitalistic greed. Donald wanted to start a revolution and he saw kidnapping the heir to a media empire is

being a big step towards kicking that shit off. And while the revolution never came, it wasn't due to lack of effort. The SLA was no joke. They executed her kidnapping with ruthless efficiency and carried out murders, robberies, and bombings. And Patty Hurst, not long after her kidnapping began to help commit some of these crimes, people around the world watched in awe as a strange story unfolded. After Patty's kidnapping, his days turned into weeks and weeks turned into months, they watched his Patty transition from pleading for her family to bring her home to blaming

her family for many of society's ills and telling the world that the s la was a noble organization she was proud to be a soldier within this organization Patricia denounced her family and multiple recorded messages that were played for all of America over the radio claim that she had evolved into a comrade the revolutionary force to fight fascists why did she do this psychological A psychological condition known as Stockholm syndrome maybe to blame. Did Patty truly enjoy being a member of the SLA, a sheltered rich girl living the life on the wild side as many have claimed or had her captors truly, truly brainwashed her? This week, we're going to talk about some socially turbulent times of the 70s when a bunch of

young people cross America out did themselves to prove who could be the most radical, the most militant, the most shocking. We're going to talk about bombs and FBI raids. Well detail who Patty Hurst was, who her kidnappers were, and we'll follow her kidnapping and following crime's free as it leads into the first trial of the century. When do you stop being a hostage and start being a member of the gang? Can you try and answer this question and more on today's radical, militant, communist, to shit, easy-boiled jangles, edition of TimeSuck.

This is Michael McDonald, and you're listening to TimeSuck. You're listening to TimeSuck. To TimeSuck. Happy Monday, Midsack. Welcome to the cult of the curious, you beautiful bastards. Hail Nimrod. I'll see my dreams, Luciferina, praise both jangles and glory be to triple them. May, may, you know, yacht rock to her soon be allowed to once more sail the sonic seas and bring their live music to the people. I'm Dan Cummins, Suck Nasty, the master's sucker,

owner proprietor of Sky Walker Ranch, anti-cult co-leader and you are listening to Time Suck. Quick, couple messages for standup comedy fans. I have a new standup album that is now available everywhere you get albums these days. Pandora Spotify, iTunes, Amazon, et cetera. It's called Live in Denver, a fresh recording from right before COVID shut down standup.

It's a lot of my favorite bits performed with zero profanity. 100% say for everyone no matter how prudish you want to play something, some mixed company of mine. Worry a lot less about offending anyone. This is the album to play as opposed to say the Albert Fish Suck or any other standup album I have. Showbiz! No peanut ball but on this one.

Bamboes and back heads So there's that excited to have at least one album to prove to people that I can be funny if I you know Want to be clean. I don't have to be dirty as you just enjoy it Also some bad news following my agents advice all of my remaining 2020 toxic thoughts stand up tour dates have been moved to next year Please contact the venues directly for refund and transfer policies. It's just simply too hard in the current environment, not knowing what areas are going to be locked down and when things keep changing so fast.

And I don't want to get COVID out on the road. Be stuck away from my family. Stuck away from the podcast studio here, start mids and episodes as I struggle to get home. I don't want to end up stuck across the country for two weeks because my temperature spikes at the airport and now I can't catch my flight back to, back to Cortalain, back to Spokane and then driving over to Cortalain. You get it. And I also just, I don't want to perform in a room full of masks. I want to see your faces. I want to know if you're smiling or scowling. A know, a lot of a lot of stand up for me is kind of you know, reading the room and Engaging the cadence and the tempo a little bit based on that. I don't shift my content

But you know, I feed off of what I see body language and it's not just laughs Coming back and I and I just I don't know it just sounds like a nightmare and I've talked to a bunch of comic friends and they say not fun Not not fun to do stand up in the current club environment. So I'm hoping shit clears up by 2021. And the new tour, all the dates are already lined up. Sorry, everything's been moved. There should be replacement dates for all the dates I was going to do in 2020 and really, really,

fingers crossed, hoping it's gonna happen, optimistic it will. Sorry again, if this messed up your plans and thanks for continuing to listen to me podcast because I do love this as well. Okay, so also got some new hats in the store at BadMagicMarch.com, check those out. No Frankenstein sized hats that will fit like a giant head like mine at the moment, but hats that will fit 99% of you. Thanks to Logan Keith, Art Warlock for making them look so good.

And last thing before diving in today's story is set mainly in central California, and heart goes out to thousands of people, recently displaced by so many crazy fucking fires going on. Ah, man, crazy storms out in the Midwest, crazy fires on top of everything else this year. I'm recording this on Thursday, August 20th. Hopefully by the time you hear it, these fires are contained.

Now, let's get to sucking one hell of a tail. I don't know, not a ton of setup needed for this one, but a decent amount of info. We're going to go over before we get into the timeline. We will jump into the timeline to get a, you know, to feel for cultural events that lead to SLA's creation, uh, kidnapping a hers, then we'll follow the group's exploits right up to the eventual deaths of some members and incarceration of others. We'll cover Patty's life in the timeline from the time she was kidnapped up until the present day. First though, uh, I want to get a feel for hers family's fortune, right, the Hurst family,

and who Donald DeFries was, and why he formed the SLA. It's important to know the kind of money that Patricia Hurst came from. On February 20th, 1954, Patricia Campbell Hurst was born in San Francisco, the third of five daughters of Randolph, Aprison Hurst and Catherine Wood Campbell. And her and I basically did have the exact same childhood. In so many ways, while most parents in the 1950s read the newspaper, attended the movies, visited museums, Patti's parents,

printed the newspapers, created the movies and established the museums, normal families voted for or against politicians. Patti's family had those politicians over for dinner. So same. Her parents were in charge of a media empire. My mom worked at a grocery store that did sell some magazines. She grew up in a mansion.

I grew up mainly in trailers and apartments, tomato, tomato. She grew up in the Bay area, full of museums and concerts and culture and the hustle and bustle of a major metropolis. And I grew up in a small town in Idaho County that was the butt of jokes for most people living in other small Idaho County towns because we were even smaller and more backwards than they were.

She had hired help serving her five course meals. I had either whatever my grandparents were cooking that night or had to make my own ham and cheese hot pockets or researchers being in cheese burritos. We both had pools. So, okay, that's pretty cool. Sure, hers was in ground and heated and enormous and cleaned by professionals and mine came in a box from Kmart and was literally never cleaned not even one time and filled with garden hosts.

Then last long, because me and my friends ripped a fucking hole in the thin plastic wall and the water poured out and turned part of the yard into a swamp and mom got real mad. Basically though, we lived the same life separated only by time, distance, socioeconomic status and I can't relate to her childhood on any level. She grew up in so much wealth. Patty the ares grew up in just about the highest level of privilege one could grow up in northern California. We're just saying a lot for an area that consistently ranks as one of the top three most expensive cities

to live in in the entire United States. Like if you grow up part of the elite class of San Francisco, you're going to be part of the elite class pretty much fucking anywhere. You know, it's very different than being like one of the wealthiest families in Elco, Nevada, which might not mean shit in the Bay Area. Looking back, Patty would describe her childhood as really pretty perfect. It's a quote, really pretty perfect. How many of us can say that? She grew up primarily in the suburb of Hillsboro, attended its Crystal Springs School for Girls in the Santa Catalina School in Monterey.

I'm sure both the schools were very similar to San River High School in junior high, attended school, I've probably had a lot of the same teachers. You know, she then briefly attended the tiny private Menlo College in Atherton, California, 30 miles south of San Francisco, Atherton known for being one of the wealthiest towns per capita, if not the wealthiest in America.

It has the most expensive zip code in the entire US. If you want to go to Menlo College, it has less than 800 total undergraduates. You're gonna need a lot of dough or a lot of loans and scholarships. Twition alone is 45 grader of a year and increasing by a couple thousand every year. And you're not going to find a cheap place to rent in that area. It is about six grand cheaper than Harvard or NYU if you're looking for a deal.

Hurst transferred to the University of California Berkeley, a school her family had very deep connections with several buildings on campus named after various Hearst family members because they've given so much damn money to the school over the years. There's the Hearst Memorial Mining Building, the Hearst Field Annex, the Hearst Jim Pool, Hearst Tennis Courts, the Phoebe A Hearst Museum of Anthropology. Phoebe is Patty's great grandma. We'll meet her in a bit. So let's examine just how wealthy Patty's family is and was. Short answer, super wealthy,

like unbelievably wealthy. Like I'm proud of driving around a nice, not fully loaded, but not a base model, 2016 F-150. A little bit of window tinting, you know, leveling kit, custom wheels. I like it very much. The errors to the Hurst family could each pay someone to buy brand new fully loaded f150 right drive it off the lot straight to a fucking junkyard and just have it destroyed. They could do that every single day for an entire year and just not notice a difference in the lifestyle. As of 2016 the most recent year we could find the list we were looking for. The Hurst family was the ninth richest family in the US with around 28 billion dollars worth of assets

fully loaded new f-150 is gonna set you back about 75 grand if the Hurst family use their fortune to buy nothing but loaded f-150s They can buy roughly 400,000 of them or 8,000 10 million dollar homes where did all this money come from? Or 8,000, 10 million dollar homes. Where did all this money come from? They used to be even more wealthy than this, actually. The Hurst Corporation traces its roots to one of the richest men of his era, William Randolph Hurst, Patty's grandfather, but the money didn't start with, oh, Willie Randy. Willie Randy was born rich, son of another very wealthy man named George Hurst, Phoebe's

husband. A Patricia's, great, grandpa George, was a very successful American businessman, minor, and politician born in 1820. And George was not born into money. He's really where it starts. He was born very much a part of America's working class. George Hurst was born near a present-day Sullivan, Missouri, just under 70 miles southeast of St. Louis to the children of Scott's Irish immigrants.

His grandfather was taken off a boat and onto American soil as a small child in 1766. Numerous family members were granted farmland in the colony of South Carolina. George grew up on a farm, one of three children to grow up in a log cabin in Franklin County. No AC, no central AC, no heat other than the log, you know, the, the, the stove. His education consisted of some, some elementary school, nothing else, not quite like a men-low college or UC Berkeley level of education. George, like his parents before him, became a Missouri farmer, but he wasn't content with just farming.

He wanted gold. He has gold in them, not hills, kind of gold. On 1829 when George was his nine years old, there was a huge gold rush in the Appalachian Mountains of Georgia. And by the way, in that word, it's preventing the emails. I did a little extra deep dive in on Appalachian Appalachian, both totally acceptable, people who live in the Appalachian or Appalachian Mountains, say the word both ways. By 1840, most of the gold to be prospected in Georgia, at least with 1840 mining tools, was gone by 1848 prospectors were flooding to California. They were head and west for some major strikes.

Two years earlier, in 1846, Georgia's father died. And at the age of 26, he became the head of the family. Interested in mining since he was a kid, he did a little bit of mining locally, not enough to improve his fortune in some substantial way, but enough to get a taste for how much the right strike could increase your fortune. And enough to realize he was good at it. He had a knack for it. He was a man with a nose for valuable minerals.

He did take off for California in 1850, once the family was nice and set Missouri. He arrived near Sutter's Mill on the American River over 40 miles east of Sacramento. He didn't find much his first winter west. He moved 40 miles north after that to the grass valley and made a decent living, running some quartz mines, ranching, and running a general store for a decade. Wasn't wealthy yet, but doing well. Then in the summer of 1859, he buys one sixth interest in the Ofer Silver Mine near Virginia, City, Nevada, super cool little western town if you ever can swing through it. I love that little town. And then the

following winter, 38 tons of silver ore are taken out of that mine. It produced a profit of $91,000, close to $3 million in today's dollars, just that first winner, which means Hurst made the equivalent of half a million. And he made that, you know, quick, and he used that money to buy more shares of claims in mines, such as the Ontario Silver Mine and Park City, Utah, the Anna Condomine and Butte Montana. He didn't just take that initial money and walk away and hoard it like some would have done. He could have done that, but if he did, he would have never become wealthy. He might have been well off, but now wealthy.

Instead like a lot of wealthy people do, he invested his first big score in chances to hit more big scores, calculated risks. And he did hit more and more big scores. Then in 1862, he returned to Missouri at the age of 42 to be with his dying mother. And while back at home, he married 19 year old Phoebe Aparson, a local teacher known to have the nicest ass in all of Franklin County. She was known by more people as Phoebe Sweetchiques than she was by her birth name. Phoebe was a pagan nudist, which was unusual for that part of Missouri at that time.

And many things she put a witch spell on George to convince him to marry her. And of course, none of the stuff I said after local teacher was true. I know nothing about to notaride your lack thereof with Phoebe's butchics. I'm guessing she would be shocked in an appalled disgusted if she heard me say that. George would probably challenge me to a duel, you know, defender honor. In 1862, the nation was engulfed in a civil war and George decided to skip it He and sweet chicks kidding he and Phoebe turned their eyes away from the strife of North versus South and they just head back West To continue building his fortune. They settled in San Francisco had their only child William Randolph Hurst

Oh will a Randy in 1863 George continued to reinvest his money He found that a number of mining, including the highly successful home stake mine in the Black Hills of South Dakota. That mine didn't stop producing gold until 2001. This one mine, one of many George would own at least a large percentage of, produced more than 40 million Troy ounces of gold during this lifetime. Gold was just over $2,000 an ounce the other day.

40 million ounces times $2,000, that's $80 billion. George also began a career in politics, shortly after returning West. He was elected to the California State Assembly in 1864. One of a dozen men representing San Francisco. In 1880, he bought the San Francisco Examiner, or if you believe the legend he wanted gambling uh... so it was given to him to cover some gambling debts this will become the

flagship of the herst media empire george himself will never really care about it never really be a a big newspaper guy his son all shit uh... george gets appointed to be a u.s senator in eighteen eighty six to fill a vacancy and later that year is elected as a democrat remain a senator until his death in 1891 and he also put his son Willie Randolph and charged the examiner in 1887 four years before his death. And what's Phoebe doing during all this? Living luxuriously.

She's traveling around Europe, traveling around numerous times beginning in 1873. She split time between a variety of lavish, herst homes in the Bay area. She spoiled little Willie Randy. George would say about his son. There's only one thing that's sure about my boy when he wants cake. He wants cake and he wants it now. And I noticed that after a while, he gets the cake. Nice.

Noise. Who doesn't want that kind of childhood? Kindly always get the fucking cake. Phoebe funded all sorts of buildings for various educational uses. As you already know, she became a major benefactor to the University of California Berkeley. She served as its first female regent,

mainly on the board from 1897 until her death in 1919. Now let's look and see how Patty's grandpa, Willie Randy, took Hurst fortune to even greater heights than his father. First, before he started building the fortune, he partied his ass off at Harvard and wasted some of his parents' money. Young Willie Hurst was expelled after two years of college for antics ranging from sponsoring massive beer parties in Harvard Square, to sending chamber pots, aka turbuckets to his

professors with their images drawn into the bottom of the bowls. Pretty sweet. Spoiled asshole rich kid or American hero, maybe both. I'd love to go into great detail regarding how he transformed his father's newspaper into a national media empire, but that would require a suck on Willie himself, which you probably do on one of these days. This particular herds also played a large part in the criminalization of marijuana in

America. He's a bit of a villain using his vast media empire to publish a lot of reefer madness propaganda bullshit. That's a tale for another day. The short version of how he grew his money further is by the 1920s after taking control of the examiner in 1887, which was actually struggling when he took it over. Willie Randy owned the first nationwide media chain, which included Harper's Bazaar, the New York Morning Journal, good housekeeping.

His empire became notorious for its quote unquote yellow journalism. I talked about this a bit in my TEDx talk. Yellow journalism is a sensationalist lured style of reporting, the kind that we're just used to now, the majority of journalism now is, I would say, yellow journalism. Less emphasis on fact, more emphasis on opinion, spin and extreme, you know, eye catching headlines. And because this new, more entertaining style of presenting the news, Hearst Publications

attained an unprecedented amount of circulation. At its height, it's estimated that one in five Americans were reading Hearst papers every fucking day. William would also invest in radio, movies and television. In 1903, the 34 year old herds married the 20 year old Millicent Veronica Wilson. Millicent would give birth to five sons. George Randolph herds. William Randolph herds junior.

John Randolph herds. They just love rotating the same names. He's egomaniacs. And then the twins Randolph, another Randolph, Aprison Hurst and David Whitmeyer Hurst. Randolph, Aprison, is Patty Hurst's father and was born in 1950. Let's talk about his dad a little bit more though.

By 1925, Hurst had established a required newspapers in every section of the United States as well as several magazines. He published books, produced movies. Then in the 1920s, he built a grandiose castle on a 240,000 acre ranch. On the California coast in San Samoan, California, 240 miles south of San Francisco.

He furnished this residential complex with a vast collection of antiques and art objects that he bought in Europe. A playwright, George Bernard Shaw famously described this castle as, the place God would have built if he had had the money. It is nuts, 115 rooms, 38 bedrooms, over 40 bathrooms, a theater, a beauty salon, a giant indoor rom Roman pool, giant outdoor pools, and it originally set on 375 square miles of private land.

Everything was made custom for it. Now this isn't fucking particle board. This is like exotic marble, you know, all these crazy expensive materials. At the peak of its fortune in 1935, Willie fucking Randy owned 28 major newspapers, 18 magazines, several radio stations, movie companies, news services, the great depression of the 1930s would seriously weaken his financial position, but he would rebound, you know, in the 40s, and then he died in 1951 to age 88. And Patricia's father, Randolph Appersenhurst, was the last surviving of his five boys, and

the one that would inherit his father's vast fortune, when Randolph died in 2000, his estate was valued at $1.8 billion. So, you know, it wasn't as big as it was at one time, but still, these are billionaires. The modern day Hurst Corporation, which owns 46 newspapers, 340 magazines around the globe. And as valuable stakes in cable channels like ESPN, Lifetime, A&E, it's currently chaired by William Randolph-Hersd. The third, they love to keep the names in his family.

Patty's second cousin, her father's cousin's son. The HERS Corporation is the rare private corporation with over $10 billion in annual revenue. Okay, so sorry for the detour there, but an important part of the story is why the SLA chose to kidnap Patty Hearst. They chose her because in the Bay Area, her name was synonymous with extreme wealth, old money.

If you're a communist, revolutionary type, live in the Bay Area, you know, all about the Hearst family, and they represent to you the worst of capitalistic greed. Now, let's talk about these people who oppose capitalism specially the kind of capitalism the hers practice and when i say opposed i mean you know committed to committing serious fucking violence and what law enforcement deemed domestic terrorism easy but janko easy sometimes we have to talk about communism

right you know that good boy calm calm down painting the decade of the seventies with broad strokes yet to mention economic depression in oil crisis uh... the end of the child era, and for many of those former flower children a descent into drugs and various cults. For many of the 70s wasn't non-stop late night disco parties fueled by Coke and coilutes.

For some it was, and they must have had a fucking blast, that was great. But for many, it was an uncertain, even exceedingly pessimistic time. Tim Finley, a reporter with the San Francisco Chronicle and Rolling Stone, the man who discovered the identities of the Symbi... oh man, Symbianese, there we go. I take me a second, a few times with that word. The Symbianese Liberation Army said this of the 1970s in San Francisco. In the mid-70s, the anti-war movement began to decline, simply because the Vietnam War was ending. There was less and less of the mass movement going on in Berkeley,

and more concentrated sales of people within Berkeley who were living out of lifestyle. In order to be part of this romantic past in Berkeley, you gained status by being more revolutionary than the other guy, by having that superior compassion that motivated a lot of people. There had been a change in direction of the civil rights movement which identified more with empowering racial differences rather than melding them rather than integrating society and there was developing at that time as well a far more ideological slant to what had been a relatively

innocent movement. If you look back to such things as the weather underground in 1968, they did not attack institutions in order to kill people or rob people or what have you. They attacked institutions as saboteurs, as a resistance against the war and against the power of the establishment. Had to throw some funk behind that. Some good feedback on last week's soundbets. That makes a little stories, little more entertaining moments. Hell, Nimrod.

Whereas the ethos of the 60s counterculture in San Francisco have been about civic participation, marching for civil rights, protesting at sit-ins, that sort of thing. 70s was all about who could be the most radical. This attitude was held partly due to political motivations, partly to stave off the existential dread of confronting the country that had just come out of a war with no victors and to come into an economic depression. And partly, you know, just to just look fucking cool, man. Can you dig it?

Does everything cope with set it with you? Because it ain't with me, job, turkey. There's a revolution coming. It's going to be dynamite and out of sight. So do me a solid and get it right. Ride on, ride on, ride on. Catch you on the flip side. You know Mike and out of sight. So do me a salad and get a right, right on, right on, right on. Catch you on the flip side. You know, that kind of thing.

And the race to see who could be the most revolutionary, one of the stars of today's suck, Donald David DeFries was a front runner. Let's meet this crazy son of a bitch. DeFries was the founder of the radical group that would go on a big crime bender. 1973, 1975. He'd committed plenty of crimes before that time as well Wasn't stranger to crime a man not afraid to commit crime and a man when he kidnapped Patty Hurst surrounded by Bay Area well-educated young Marxist flavored revolutionaries who had never themselves committed crimes

But want to sum with that grit and excitement made him feel edgy and they fed his delusions a grandeur on November 15th, 1943, DeFree was born in Cleveland, Ohio. Birthplace of my Polish wife, city with lots of Polish people. Ugh! Long history of kicking out monsters in that part of the world. You get it.

His parents were Louise and Mary DeFreeze, and he was not born into wealth and privilege, like Patty Hearst and I were. DeFreeze was the eldest eldest of eight children his mother Mary was a registered nurse at a nursing home His father although there isn't much info on him apparently wasn't as caring as DeFries's mother According to some reports he disciplined Donald as a boy by breaking both of his arms now once Not twice but three separate fucking times so clearly Donald was a bad kid who started off being bad at listing and ended up being bad at throwing baseball at the start, right? No, I'm kidding.

No, this is true. His father was clearly extremely physically abusive. DeFrees would grow up to become a very angry and violent young man. And if my dad had broke both my arms, the three times, yeah, I probably would have been angry and violent my twenties as well. And my teens at the age of 14, Donald David DeFrees dropped out of school ran away from home, ran away from his dad after losing yet another armament for the man to be caught. He could.

No, he didn't really run away though. I know that stuff's not funny. You understand? He ended up in Buffalo, New York where he live in, he'd live in foster care eventually living with the man named Reverend William L. Foster a fundamentalist minister and his family while living with pastor Foster he joined a gang called the cracked skulls I'm guessing pastor Foster was unaware of this and how was your day young Donald good pastor Foster me and some of the crack skulls Carjack to woman in Allentown brought liquor store at

Broadway and Elm well glad to hear you've made some friends who in Buffalo, Donald, praise God. DeFrees was quickly arrested for stealing from parking meters and for stealing a car. The state of New York decided to give the kid a shot of rehabilitation and send him to a state reformatory in El Myra, New York. The El Myra correctional facility

was a unique and innovative prison at the time. They rejected theories of reform that had developed the 19th century theories that inmates should be silent, obedient, spend all their time. You know, when they're not reflecting on their crimes and single occupation cells, they should spend it working. El Miro was different.

They believed that approaching reform from a psychological perspective, rather than a physical perspective, yielded better chances for true reform. El Miro used a lot of what we think is fairly logical now. Like techniques like just encouraging inmates with rewards, variable sentences according to the criminals background in history, education. But that didn't mean that everything was candy and sunshine.

About his time in prison, the freeze would say, life in the prison as we called it, you know, because it was a juvenile correction facility. It was nothing but fear and hate day in and day out. I would not be part of any of the gangs, black or white. I didn't hate anyone, black or white, and they hated me for that. Upon his release in 1963, the now 19 or 20 year old defrees relocated to the Newark, New Jersey area. There he met and married a woman named Gloria Thomas, who had three children from a previous

marriage. A couple would quickly have three more children and then struggle financially Weird weird how strange that a dude who kicked out three kids right after being released from prison a dude who jumped into a relationship Where they you know the lady already had three kids would then struggle with money if only birth control pills would have been around in the 60s They were actually That's when they first showed up. All that 60s, you know, hippie sex was fueled partly by great music and counterculture revolution type vibes

and mostly by the first reliable and affordable birth control pill to be widely used. Oh well. The defreases did not use it and they ended up damn near homeless with Donald only able to find sporadic employment as a short order cook or as a laborer. And then Donald came up with a great plan to fix everything for himself at least. Like so many super cool dudes have done that we've covered on time.

So he decided to completely abandon his family. Later he would write, I just couldn't take it anymore. I was slowly becoming a nothing. Huh. I would define someone who abandoned their, their family has been nothing. DeFrees thought doing that could turn him into something, I guess. He made it clear across the country before getting arrested 1964 and then returning to his family in New Jersey.

Police stopped him while he was hitchhiking on the San Bernardino Freeway near West Covena, California. On him, they found a tear gas pencil bomb, a sharpened butter knife, and a sawdoth rifle. Had all that in a suitcase. Sources don't say what he was officially charged with. I can't figure out why he was charged with anything. I really didn't seem like he did anything wrong. I mean, he was a regular dude, hitchhiking with a suitcase,

had a knife, a gun, and a pen bomb. What was he supposed to do? Not bring all that with him? Hitchhiking is dangerous. You never know what kind of fucking whack job you're gonna run into. You might need a tear gas pen bomb. I need a sharp butter knife

Seems to me like he was just trying to be prepared for getting picked up by some kind of psycho But the police sought differently I've already backed in New Jersey connecting with his family. He'd get arrested for shooting off a gun inside his basement and for having a bomb Oh, I'm sorry officer Am I not allowed in the land of the free to shoot off my own gun in a houseful of children and make some fucking bombs? Sorry, I forgot I was living in North Korea! Donald will later write, I started playing with guns and fireworks, just anything to get

away from life and how unhappy I was. He was sentenced to two years of probation, 1965. He heads back out to California, makes it to Los Angeles. This time, big grudgingly, he brings a stupid family. The change of scenery would only intensify his financial worries and his run-ins with law enforcement. On June 9, 1967, the police stopped the freeze for running a red light. This is weird on his bike.

Runs a red light on his bicycle. He asks for his name. He gives them a fake one. And then when they search him, they find a homemade light on his bicycle. He asks for his name, he gives them a fake one, and then when they search him, they find a homemade bomb in his pocket, and then on the basket of the bicycle, they find another bomb in a pistol. And DeFrees tells him this, I love this.

He doesn't heed found at the two bombs and the pistol just laying around, and he was just trying to sell him to feed his family. And for some reason, the crazy cops didn't believe him. Oh, oh, you're arresting me? Seriously, I'm sorry that I just leave North Korea for Mother Russia. Is it illegal to find bombs and guns laying around and just put them in my bicycle basket and try to make some side cash.

Tell them a little bit. It is. Oh, it is. It is illegal to sell bombs to people on the street. Huh. Okay. Well, sorry I don't have every single law memorized Donald's given three more years of probation probation officer who interviews to freeze rights that he is deeply troubled by this case. I bet right keep finding

You find in bombs this guy Earlier probation report describes to freeze as getsoid purse, getsoid personality with strong schizophrenic potential was a fast nation with firearms and explosives. Psychiatric officials of the prison testing center, where he is briefly sent after this arrest recommend that he be jailed because his fast nation with firearms and explosives make some dangerous. Yeah, he sounds dangerous.

And then while this case is going to court, Mr. Defree is arrested again on December 2, 1967. I wonder what kind of bullshit Trumped up charge he'll have thrown out him this time. A prostitute complains that DeFrees threatened her with a pistol and demanded money according to the police report. Arriving at the motel to investigate the police say they found a pistol stolen from a store in nearby torrents and then other stolen weapons in the trunk of Donald's car. And how did they get there? You know what? He fucking found them, okay?

Is it illegal to be really good at finding guns and bombs laying around? You would think in a good society that'd give them a medal for finding that stuff before kids found it and hurt themselves. But no, in the United States of fascist motherfuckers, you get arrested for doing good deeds. Everyone knows I'm being absurd, right? That also. DeFrees initially avoided arrest by jumping from a second story bedroom window. He's captured four days later and then to avoid serious prison time, he rats down on

the converse and leads the police to Ronald Coleman's house where they find nearly 200 weapons stolen from a surplus store. And then Donald doesn't get any trouble, doesn't get any further trouble. Excuse me for a long time. He's not arrested again for another four months. On March 10th, 1968, he charged with burglary and inglewood. On August 16th, 1968, he charged with still in a motorcycle. On March 20th, 1969, he gets in more trouble for finding on the ground, a loaded nine millimeter rifle with 32 rounds in the magazine.

His probation had been modified months earlier in December 13th, 1968 to forbid possession of firearms or bombs, but still the freeze doesn't go to jail for any of these crimes. Why? Because the police finally woke up and realized it's not illegal to be good at finding stuff. No. As to why he wasn't picked up and immediately put in not illegal to be good at finding stuff. No. As to why he wasn't picked up and immediately put in jail for these crimes, many have speculated that the freeze was an informant for either the LAPD who in the 60s were beefing

up their surveillance or surveillance on radical groups, particularly Marxists and black aligned organizations or even CIA or FBI who also had interest in these organizations. And Donald being both black and Marxist had interest in these organizations. And Donald, being both Black and Marxist, did run in these circles. According to author Brad Schrieber, who wrote revolutions and the Patty Hearst kidnapping, mind control, and the secret history of Donald DeFries and the SLA, DeFries was a former LAPD-informed running guns to set up Black Panthers. Not everyone thinks DeFries was an informant though. Legal analyst and author Jeffrey Tobin

who wrote the account on the OJ Simpson case that was adapted into the first season of FX's nine Emmy winning American crime season, disputes this ascertaination, writing that Donald DeFries was a two-bit incompetent criminal who in Los Angeles tried to work off a beef like a lot of criminals do by telling the cops he knew about other criminals.

The idea that he was some sort of secret agent for the government is just absurd. So was he or was he not some kind of informant? We don't know. Nobody does for sure. Seems weird though that he just keeps getting, you know, nothing more than parole, even though he's arrested just continually. By the late spring of 1969, De de Freese has abandoned his family once again finally wait off his back. He's sick. You know, he's sick. He's sick. I'm holding

him back from coming to more crimes on May 9, 1969. The Newark police report that de Freese and a companion Ralph Cobb have kidnapped and threatened Alfred Witters caretaker of the temple, a bane Abraham. The police said the two had driven Mr. Witters around with a shotgun holding it to his head claiming to be black panthers and demanding $5,000 from the rabbi of the synagogue that they felt that they needed to secure the release of another black panther. Ralph Cobb was tried and acquitted and then a memorandum from the prosecutor's office, memorandum said that it decided to drop charges against Mr. DeFrees since they believed he'd

soon be incarcerated in Californiaifornia for other crimes anyway so he's a way with another crime and he doesn't get thrown in prison in california for these other crimes but he does get arrested again on october eleventh nineteen sixty nine some police officers in cleveland spot to freeze on the roof of a bank building he's carrying two pistols and an eight inch dagger that he has found dangerous weapons he found while taking a leisurely stroll that happened to be on the roof of bank thinking about how he was getting his act together and going to do right by his family.

So the police, of course, give him a key to the city. No, after he's caught the police, find a burger's toolkit and a hand grenade nearby, weird. Donald claimed he didn't know anything about these things. He definitely didn't know how someone to put his fingerprints all over him. He puts up a $5,000 bond and leaves for Los Angeles. And again, he gets away with this. It's away with doing some super shady shit.

Doesn't get arrested for this, or they don't track him down. On November 17th, 1969, DeFrees is wounded in a gun battle. Outside a bank of America branch in LA, finally gets in some real trouble. He's arrested, convicted of having stolen a thousand dollar cashier's check sent to the California State Prison in Vacaville, 54 miles northeast of San Francisco, her country. Yeah, yeah. About to connect to freeze a story to the hers family. In this prison,

he joins an inmate organization called a hundred percent innocent guys who can't help being super good at finding cool shit. No, it's not right. Now, the group is called the Black Cultural Association, which stresses African heritage and pride at its weekly meetings. It's here that the intellectual seeds of what will become the Symbianese Liberation Army are planted into freezes mind. BCA at Vacaville was a group that would take black prisoners and introduce them to liberal, white college students who could then talk about the black prison experience in their university work.

And many of these college students happen to be very, very Marxist. To members of this program, our William Wolfe and Russell Little, members of a radical political group called the Vince Seremos, Spanish for We Will Overcome or Proveil, a term closely associated with the Chilean socialist movement. These two Yahoo's would later become members of Defrease's SLA. Future SLA members, Angela Atwood, Nancy Ling Perry also visit back of El to meet with radical prison groups while Defrease is imprisoned.

In the eyes of these young radicals, these black prisoners no matter what they were actually incarcerated for, were political prisoners, prisoners oppressed by racist and corrupt american society and a lot of black americans were being oppressed by a racist and corrupt white american majority culture that doesn't mean that donald defree specifically wasn't a fucking dirt back uh... he didn't get framed and thrown on the death row he got away with doing a lot of dumb shit it was a family abandoning violent looney tomb who couldn't stop making bombs.

Before leaving the Vacaville prison to freeze broke away from the Black Cultural Association started his own program called Unicite, whose stated purpose was a study of the Black family. The recent family abandoner is now a family advocate. This motherfucker is too much. December of 1972, defreesFriz was transferred to Soledad prison until the day of California. He won't stay long. He escapes just months later on March 5th, 1973, so he can return to his family.

No, he doesn't do that, but he does escape. Very easily, he basically just walked away. D'Friz had a good prison record, had learned the trade of boiler repair. He was then able to fool the authorities into giving him minimum security status. And then one day while he was unsupervised, supposed to be just working on the boiler and some stuff,

he just, uh, is walked out, it's left, didn't come back. After escaping to freeze made his way to Oakland, California, where he was hidden in house by two anti-capitalist college kids, Willie Wolfe and Russell Little, those people who had visited in prison. They took him to the house of 23 year old Patricia

Mismun. Solstik or Soltasik, a Berkeley student, daughter of a pharmacist and a self-described radical feminist and revolutionary dedicated to subverting the dominant capitalist pig paradigm of America. For the next several months, Donald family man defrees and Miz moon fuck. Just go at it like rabbits and also sometimes work on Symbianese Liberation Army literature. Donald lives with Miz moon for several months. Through her, he meets Camilla Hall, a 28 year old Berkeley artist and communist and a deep dive into Marxist revolutionary thinking and so's. The Symbianese Liberation Army is now officially formed. So let me give a quick overview of this group

and who they became, then it'll be timeline time. The Symbianese Liberation Army, also called United Federated Forces of the Symbianese Liberation Army, was a small group of multiracial militants who consider themselves members of a vanguard army, basically a small army that would for sure lead America's masses to revolt and overthrow their corporate overlords. Their logo was a seven headed cobra, pretty sweet.

And the group's motto was death to the fascist insect that prays upon the life of the people. Fuck yeah! You know someone got a real solid high five for coming up with that one. I would love to hear snippets of the brainstorm that came up with that motto. Like, what didn't get accepted? Okay, okay, okay, okay, I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it. How about, hear me out? Harm comes to the fascist baby who sucks upon the teeth of the poor more than a baby should

suck. Therefore, not leaving enough milk for other less fascist babies who in an ideal, coming to society would all get an equal and satisfying amount of breast milk. No, you jive turkey. That's lame as fuck Peter. We need something way more powerful. Less wordy. Okay, okay, okay, okay, hold on, okay, I'm not done. How about death to the capitalist spider fascists who spin their web and catch weak, helpless, commie flies. What, no, that's not terrible.

That makes us look really bad, Peter. God, who wants to join a revolution? Let it be weak, helpless, commie, send me these liberation, army flies. You're right, you're right. Give me five minutes. Let me just keep working this bug angle. Let me just keep working this bug angle Let me just keep working this bug angle

If you're wondering what symbionese means, I didn't mean a damn thing 1972 Because Donald hadn't made it up until 1973 According to the group's manifesto Symbionese was taken from the word symbiosis a body of dissimilar bodies and organisms living in deep and loving harmony. But they were really never about love and harmony. DeFrees not only came up with the name for his new group of radicals, he also came up with a new name for himself, he was about to be referred to as General Field Marshall Sincue. He named himself after an African-Mendy chief who took over a

slave ship in the 1830s and freed himself and others. Pretty sweet. The original Josephson Q, which is actually pronounced as sink, rumored to himself, have become a slave trader in Africa after winning his own freedom, though. Maybe could have picked a better name. I don't know. There were initially eight members of the SLA, Lafrey's being the only black member, and the only member who came from a low-income household or had a criminal record the Seven other members were Caucasian middle-class or upper middle-class men and women

Raised and you know nice households most of them fresh out of college within adopted Swahili names and took up arms for the self-styled Symbianese Federation Nancy Ling Perry went by the name of Fahza Patricia Solestick called herself Zoya. Bill Harris decided to call himself Tiko. Emily Harris went by Yolanda. Angela Award went by Galina. Russell Little's Swahili name was Ahsiala. Joe Romero renamed himself Bo William Wolf called himself Kujo and Camilla Hall went by Gabby. so the sla quickly through to having eighteen members along with uh... a handful of associates and sympathizers and they were you know they were prepared to bring america to it's nice

listen up capitalist pigs we don't want to wage war would fall you or your senators and congressman don't leave capital hill tonight If the White House is not vacated by midnight tonight If the Pentagon doesn't send word for the entire US military industrial complex to stand down immediately We will find oh so many guns laying around on the ground We will use them to bathe this nation in the blood of the revolution. Can you dig it?

We have almost 20 mostly misguided well-intentioned young suburban-eyed hip cats who may have never even been in a fist fight, let alone touch a gun, but they are prepared to pu-piu-piu all day and all night until a new, groovy, not tripping nation is born and incite can you dig it? You get it. Uh, this group... and insight can you dig it? You get it. This group, oh boy, I just can't imagine what it's like to be around their meetings, right? It's just like all these frankly really soft,

like some middle class white kids, they just wanna be just so fucking hard, you know? The SLA did really wanna change some shit to big white. They wanted to close all prisons and monogamy, destroy all other institutions that have made and sustain capitalism. They went big, pretty lot of the goals for a small group. They were dedicated to Marxism and to revolution and as much as I mock them, they were actually pretty organized. They would come up with and carry out a plan to take not only in Eris to a massive fortune hostage, but they would take much of American media

hostage as well. Okay. I think we know it enough about the Hearst family, Patty Hearst, Donald D'Afriz, SLA, and the general vibe of the counterculture and the Bay Area in the 70s now. So we can get into our timeline. Let's jump into the timeline starting off in 1973 with the formation of the SLA. But before we do, it is sponsor time.

Thanks for listening to our sponsor messages. I hope you're able to dig into some of those great deals. Appreciate it. Please allow me to now hit this button. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time, suck time line. and the fall in nineteen seventy three defrees and the burglary radicals uh... excuse me as i just went over form the simbionese liberation army uh... i didn't share the following little trivian nugget regarding their

formation we do that now there's interesting theory about the freeze in the formation of the s. l.a. touch down but i want to expand on uh... it's called the c.i.a. assassination squad theory it takes the theory that defrees was uhrease was some kind of government informant even further, building on the work of private investigator Lake Headley, who may have dug into the Patty Hearst kidnapping deeper than any other single investigator. Some authors and alternative media have developed theories that the SLA was a fully controlled

CIA assassination squad with a black Panther party as its main target. Under this narrative, the SLA originated within California prisons where defrees was sent as an informer to infiltrate and carstrated radical groups and then set up his own organization like all of this was all this was planned. The theory states that Donald defrees was sent into prison by the CIA and that the black cultural association was used to monitor radicals among both visiting students and prison inmates. The CIA created the Black Cultural Association at the VACA VELFACILITY as part of developing

the SLA, a phony left-wing group, upon meeting radicals after his prison escape and before he was incarcerated, DeFrees was known for his eagerness to sell firearms explosives and related items, all stuff he found. But seriously, how did he get all this shit? His means of consistently acquiring weaponry has never been fully explained. Was he trying to set up sting operations? According to this theory, he was never sent to prison for earlier weapons charges and he always had access to weapons because he was being given weapons by the CIA.

Why to gain the attention of the black panthers so that he could then infiltrate their group and then help the CIA take them down from within. Now, do I believe this? Not necessarily, but I don't think it's impossible. The CIA has done all kinds of crazy shit to take out groups. It is deemed a threat to the US government. They did have, you know, a black radical groups in the 60s and 70s in their crosshairs for sure. And before that, 50s, 40s, you know, a black radical groups in the 60s and 70s in their crosshairs, for sure. And before that, 50s, 40s, you know, all kinds of stuff that they have done. If nothing else, this is an interesting theory.

Just wanted to share it before I move on. After several months of weapons training at their safe house, the SLA committed its first revolutionary act on November 6, 1973. They ambush and murder Oakland school superintendent Marcus Foster and seriously wound his deputy Robert Blackburn. Why would they do this? Foster had just three years earlier become the first African-American school superintendent of a large school district in American history. He'd received national awards. Then he got shot eight times at the age of 50 with hollow point bullets that had been packed with cyanide. You've been a national award-winning principal.

The SLA shot mistakenly, or mistakenly, excuse me, targeted him for a support of an ID system for Oakland students, an ID system designed to keep non-student drug dealers off campus. The SLA targeted foster because they believed that he supported a measure to institute oppressive security measures at schools, including more police presence. There were, you know, this, uh, the program that was built around these IDs. He did not foster did advocate initially for the IDs, but then rescinded his support weeks before he was assassinated. This crime to me shows how crazy Donald DeFries and his followers were in the name of standing

up against white oppressors, capitalist oppressors. They kill a black man working his ass off to keep black students safe from drug dealers. A guy focused on the education of black students. The SLA's crime announced the group as one capable of committing violent acts in the name of revolution. It also brought down the scorn of the Berkeley left, most of whom found the political murder of a black man by a black led organization incomprehensible. If you follow the CIA kind of plant theory, then you could argue that this was done intentionally

to, you know, to just harass the black community, I guess. On January 10th, 1974, SLA members Russ Little and Joe Romero are arrested by traffic cops. SLA weapons and propaganda found in their possession. Fearing the house will be raided, Nancy Ling Perry sets fire to the group safe house and the SLA goes underground. Please find the safe house scorched, but not burned down, leaving a significant amount of evidence of what the group was up to and who some of them were.

Whoops. I'm guessing Nancy and Scott are asked you a bit for that one. Just Nancy, what did I say to do? In the event that the 50 snacks is some of our soldiers that I say to burn down the fucking safe house or did I say to kind of scorch some of it and leave the rest unharmed. So that authorities are able to get important intel on our revolutionary organization. What's Patricia Hurst up to around this time when nineteen seventy four began patty was only nineteen smoke and weed sneaking out to rock concerts at San Francisco's Fillmore Auditorium, feathering her hair like ferrofossets, wearing blue jeans and t-shirts with no bra,

my wife Lindsey and I both think that 70s look hottest fuck by the way. Hailers to Fina, and pretending to relate to kids who were not raised by billionaires. She just transferred from her little private school to the state school, her family practically owned. She was engaged to and living with Stephen Weed, her high school math tutor, Creepy Soundie, and I know. But he was only a few years older than her according to reports from the 70s.

I think he was like 43 or 47. Anyway, Patty's parents initially disapproved of her relationship with Mr. Weed and Patty briefly had to pay her own bills kind of for four months, but not really because she lived with Mr. Wheat. She worked at a department store for four months and then reconciled with Daddy,

and then immediately quit her job because he agreed to go back to paying for everything. And Stephen Wheat was 26, not 43 or 47. And back in 1974, 26 year old dating, the 19 year old, wasn't actually that uncommon, not condoning or judging, just pointing that out. With her family's money, she bought expensive artwork, Persian rugs, pretty much did whatever she wanted.

She was living the dream. She was going to class when she felt like it, shacking up with her fiancee, partying on her parents' time, and then all that would change on February 4th. According to a report prepared two weeks after the fact for the U.S. House of Representatives' Committee on Internal Security, Patty's kidnapping went down like this at about 9.20 pm on February 4th in Berkeley, California. Two men and a woman forced their way into the apartment of Patricia Hearst entry to the ground floor townhouse apartment at 2603. BNVNU, BNVNU, I don't know. Avenue four blocks south of the campus was obtained by the female

SLA terrorist tapping on the glass patio door and asking to use the telephone to report an accident. Miss Hurst Fiancé, Stephen A. Weed, 26, opened the garden door and the woman pushed into the apartment accompanied by two black males, one arm with a rifle, the other arm with the pistol and perhaps also a rifle. Weed was beaten about the head and shoulders until semi-conscious and tied up. Steven Kaye, a swanaga, 21, a neighbor who heard the noise and ran into the Hearst Department was also beaten.

Patty was taken into her kitchen, tied up and dragged out of the home, screaming and fighting the entire time. They dumped her into the trunk of a 1963 Chevy Impala. Some SLA members got into another car. The two cars sped off firing shots at the apartment building as they rolled away. Six blocks away. They transferred patty to another car abandoning the Impala. The kidnapping is swift and violent carried out in the words of one reporter with commando-like

precision. Stephen Weed says the police that the kidnappers were so coordinated, they barely needed to speak to one another. That evening Walter Cronkite reports on the kidnapping sparking a national media frenzy. I mean, think about how big the story is. It's almost at a level of one of Obama's or Trump's kids being kidnapped by a group of domestic terrorists. It's like if one of Bill Gates's daughters was kidnapped.

Terrified people because it felt like if some group could kidnap Patty Hearst, they could get your kids, they could get anyone. Patty drifting it out of consciousness in the car would say later that she expected her father to quickly pay whatever ransom these people wanted. But that would not be the case. The primary intention of the SLA was for more than just money. It wanted revenge against the class of people it saw as oppressors. SLA members placed her in a stuffy closet-sized room with a bare-light bulb and a portable

cot, no windows in the hot, poorly ventilated room. In addition to being placed in physically uncomfortable surroundings, Patty would later claim that members of the SLA began to psychologically torture her. As the days passed, they can continually insisted that her parents loved their money more than her, that they would not savor, that they were evil capitalists who cared about their image far more than they cared about their daughter's life, DeFrees, AKA General Field Marshall, Sincu, AKA Captain Lucky Guy bomb and gun finder led the others in harassing Patty. He insisted he'd killer himself if his demands aren't met.

What he doesn't tell her is that he hasn't made any demands yet. The Hurst have no idea what these assholes want. On the fifth day after the kidnapping, reporters gather at the Hurts family mansion in Hillsboro that wealthy San Francisco suburb to interview Patty's parents and they do this every day for months. Also on the fifth, the FBI releases composite sketches of the suspects based on Stephen Weed and other descriptions. Two days after Patty's kidnapping on February 6th, a letter arrives in the mail at a Berkeley listener supported at Berkeley's listener supported KPFA radio station.

In it, the SLA states that the group has Patty, but they list no ransom demands. Just building a little bit of suspense. The next day on February 7th, Patty's father receives a letter from the SLA and reads it on live television. The United Federation forces of the Symbianese Liberation Army armed with cyanide letter weapons served in arrest warrants upon Patricia Campbell Hurst. All communications from this court must be published in full in all newspapers and in all other forms of the media. Failure to do so will endanger the safety of the prisoner.

Should any attempt be made by authorities to rescue the prisoner or to attempt or harm any SLA elements, the prisoner is to be executed. And at the bottom of the paper is written, death to the fascist insect that prays upon the life of the people. Of course, gotta throw that little gem in there. A lot of high fives back to the new safe house when they hear that shit on the news. I told you it would sound cool. You guys doubted my bug angle at first, but that insect line, oh man, that is sound as a pound and totally groovy.

The family wouldn't hear again from the SLA for five days. While they wait, Patricia continues to be held captive in basically this closet. On February 12th, a message from the SLA is received in the form of a tape recording sent to KF or KPFA. The studio played the tape for anyone listing, I'll read an excerpt. Greetings to the people and fellow comrades, brothers and sisters. My name is Sin Q and to my comrades, I am known as Sin. I hold the rank of General Field Marshal in the United Federated Forces of the Symbianese Liberation Army. The SLA has arrested the subject for the crimes that her mother and father have by their actions committed against we the American people and the oppressed people of the

world. Randolph A. Hurst is the corporate chairman of the fascist media empire of the ultra-right Hurst Corporation, which is one of the largest propaganda institutions of this present military dictatorship of the militarily armed corporate state that we now live under this nation. The primary goal of this empire is to serve and form the necessary propaganda and smoke screen to shield the American people from seeing the realities of the corporate dictatorship which richer Nixon and Gerald Ford represent. In closing, I wish to say to Mr. Hershton, Mrs. Hershten, I'm quite willing to carry out the execution of your daughter to save the life of starving men, women, and children of

every race. And if as you and other so-nivety believe that we will lose, let it be known that even in death, we will win, for the very ashes of this fascist nation will mark our very graves. We are the crickets that hide in the shadows. The ladybugs that won't stop landing on you and don't really scare you per se, but can make you jumpy. And then the next time you feel something you find yourself thinking, I don't want to

freak out again, cause probably just under ladybugs, but maybe it's a spider. No ladybugs, or is it? I don't know, I'm not a witty too long now. Now when you head like a ladybug, God damn it Peter! I told you to take the ladybugs shit out of the speech. One insect reference is more than enough. We sound like idiots. Is the tapes are recording? Okay, so I may have added the bug stuff But the rest of the recording played as I read it and there was a lot more to it

I included in St. Cue statement was a demand that the first family give away millions of dollars in food to the poor and the needy Next came the frightened voice of Patty Hearst saying, Mom, Dad, I'm okay. I'm with a combat unit that's armed with automatic weapons. And these people aren't just a bunch of nuts. They've been really honest with me, but they're perfectly willing to die for what they're doing. And I want to get out of here. But the only way I'm going to is if we do it their way.

And I just hope that you'll do what they say, Dad, and just do it quickly. And I mean, I hope that this puts you a little bit at ease and that you know that I really, that I really am all right. I just hope I can get back to everybody really soon. Later in the day, Randolph Hearst makes a public statement and addresses his daughter directly. He tells her that he's doing everything he can to get her out of there and to take care of herself. Randolph Hearst is in contact with the FBI, but he is sure as patty and her kidnappers, no one's going to bust in and start

shooting. Can not imagine how furious he must have been. Like how much he must have wanted to use his money and influence to destroy anyone associated with taking his daughter. Someone took one of my kids, I would want to kill them myself. I wouldn't give a fuck why they did it. I would just want them to die. Another demand soon followed when Angela Atwood, another SLA member, informed the authorities, the Symbianese War Council has determined that communication between POW Patricia Hurst and her family will come only after the immediate creation of the necessary mechanisms, whereby Russell Little and Joseph Romero can communicate via live national TV with the people and the SLA concerning the full scope of their physical health and all the conditions of their

confinement. I love how they act as if they have a war council. By war council, do you mean Becky from Minnesota, who has a Berkeley philosophy degree and considers not shaving her armpits a radical stand against the man, or are you referring to Timothy from Seattle who hasn't worn shoes in two years and has been selling incense candles down by the fairy building before he joined the SLA. These people think they are. For his part, Randolph Hurst is willing to accommodate the SLA's demand. He must, God, he hates him so much. He said he'd do everything he could to get Russell Little and Joseph Romero on the air,

the two SLA members who have been, you know, a rest of the previous month. However, the FBI says no, they're not willing to allow this. They think it's only going to feed the leadership's narcissism and make them even more dangerous. Sounds like the right call. On February 13th, speaking to reporters, camped outside his house, Randolph Hurst replies to the SLA's demands saying that they were impossible. By this time, the SLA's constant barrage of accusations about how horrible the herds are are beginning to take their toll on Patty. They've convinced her that her parents are negotiating for her ransom, trying to spend less money.

This thought makes her incredibly sad and scared. I mean, makes her think that they really care more about their money than about her life. And then things get worse for Patty. Reports come in of a heavily armed FBI agents raiding a house where they thought Patty was being held. Patty felt her parents were recklessly allowing the FBI to risk her life. Her dad had said that they weren't going to do these raids while extending the media coverage and performing for spectators.

She wasn't entirely wrong about the performance part. Patty's mom had done this weird thing. She had taken to wearing black, all black, and speaking of Patty in the past tense. Her daughter hasn't even gone for two weeks yet. That's pretty strange. How pissed would you be if you were kidnapped in like 10 days later? Your mom's on TV, dressing all black,

talking about you like you're already dead. Worse, her mom had ignored the SLA demand by, or one of the SLA's demands, by accepting another appointment from then governor ronald ragan to be a region of the university california the s la had told the herst uh... to sever their ties with ragan the fascist patty said later i felt like i could have killed her when she did that my own

mother didn't care whether the s la shot me or not only ten days in patty starting to believe her family really doesn't care about her almost two weeks after her capture on february sixteen the s la releases another not. Only 10 days in, Patty starting to believe her family really doesn't care about her. Almost two weeks after her capture, on February 16th, the SLA releases another taped message for her from her. And this one reveals a shift in her attitude towards her captors. She says, I am being held as a prisoner of war and not as anything else. I mean, I am being treated in accordance with international codes of war. Also, since I'm an example, and it's really important that everybody understand that you

know, I am an example and a warning. And because of this, it's very important to the SLA that I return safely. And so people should stop acting like I'm dead. Mom should get out of her black dress. That doesn't help at all. Just hurry. Bye. I feel like she wanted to go off harder on her mom there.

She's clearly mad. Mom, stop to stop making this all about you, you selfish bitch. I'm the one who's kidnapped you sympathy, or February 20th, 1974 marks Patty Hearst 20th birthday on a third audio tape to freeze now demands at the Hearst spend $6 million on feeding the hungry. Randolph Hearst replies that six million is beyond his capabilities. Later, his representatives propose a compromise and offer to pay two million upon the immediate release of Patty Hurst and then an additional two million in January of 1975.

The SLA, of course, rejects this counteroffer and Randolph Hurst announces that he will indeed be putting a sizable portion of his fortune towards feeding the hungry as they have asked. He quickly makes arrangements for two million million to be donated to a local charity and creates a distribution plan called People in Need, PIN. And just four days, Hurst and others create one of the largest private volunteer organizations in the history of the US, almost 4,000 people volunteer

to help give out food. PIN directored Ludlow Kramer expects that the program will be able to feed 100,000 people for 12 months with the $2 million. I still don't like these SLA assholes, but kind of cool that they got him to do this as opposed to just giving them the money. This is kind of some Robin Hood shit here. Men in the FBI criticize herst decision to give into the terrace.

Herst doesn't care. He's in the, it's my daughter and I will do whatever it takes camp and I got to respect that. On February 22nd, the first disastrous attempt to distribute food for Patty's freedom occurs. Crowds form around the Hunter's Point distribution site in West Oakland soon rioting breaks out leading to dozens of injuries and arrests and response. The attorney general for California makes the following statement in the future, every

crime committed in connection with the kidnapping will be prosecuted. If it's done in response to extortion or kidnapping, it will encourage the local district attorneys to prosecute under existing law. And if they don't, we will. After the food distribution, another tape statement by Patty Hersh's broadcasts, and it reveals how her attitude continues to shift towards her parents and society in general. In this third statement, she says, mom, dad, I've been hearing your reports about the food program. So far, it sounds like you and your advisors have managed to turn it into a real disaster.

You said it was out of your hands, what you should have said was that you wash your hands of it. It sounds like most of the food is low quality. No one received any beef or lamb. Anyway, it certainly didn't sound like the kind of food our family is used to eating. What the fuck? Oh, I mean, they gotta be so sad for it. Obviously, they want her home, but also like, what do you just fucking say? Oh, I'm sorry.

With four days notice, I didn't feed 100,000 people. The way you preferred. The statement makes a lot of listeners wonder what the fuck Pattyty's up to rumors begin to spread that she has staged her own kidnapping in order to join the SLA and a quick note on this rumor lake he'dley that private investigator I mentioned earlier he did think before he died that patty herst had met with Donald the freeze while he was in prison months before her kidnapping like those other students did and that she was

in on this whole thing from the very beginning that it was all staged. Why would she do that? He'd let out patty pulled a colossal spoiled rich girl gets real mad at daddy move that she was furious with her father because she had dated a black man before she started seeing her math tutor weird kind of creepy guy and that her dad found out confronted her and strongly disapproved and then she and daddy had a big blow up over her also having very far left political views you know i e socialist of the point of being communist that directly

opposed her father's very far right staunch capitalist views and then she pulled this whole thing off just to get back at it now do i believe this not really never been proven but again i i can't see i CIA stuff, I think it's possible. You know, to some degree, also, again, entertaining theory. I mean, how crazy would it be if she helped orchestrate this entire thing? I doubt it.

I doubt she could pull off the whole thing and get away with it. And going forward, we should probably operate on the premise that she did not help plan her own kidnapping. Back to February 22, 1974. Reporters ask math to her Stephen Weed for insight into patty state of mind. And he responds, I can see that she may actually be having her doubts as to, you know, from her point of view, it may look like we've made a mess of things.

Previous to the last two months, I would say that she really didn't have a political point of view. I think that by the time this is over, she's going to have some sort of political view. Thanks for that. Thanks for that, Stephen. Great insights. Two years after the kidnapping, a rolling stone article would speculate that by degrees, her disillusionment with her parents turned into sympathy for the SLA. But more may have been going on with Patty than simple disillusionment. She'd been kept in that small closet room for a month now. She'd become mentally, physically, emotionally weak. She could barely stand up. To get out of the closet. She had to attend the SLA's daily political study sessions where she would have to listen to the SLA national anthem. They would read her statistics

and quotes from like George Jackson and Russell McGee to leftist writers arguing that less than 10% of the US population controls 90% of the wealth that some people eat catered meals while other starve. That some can afford fancy lawyers while others just rotten jail that some live off their inheritances while others squalor and despair. And all of that is true. No argument there. However, would all of these evils be cured by communism? That's what killed me about these kind of arguments.

So many people have starved under communist regimes. Can the world, you know, suddenly be turned into one big idyllic kindergarten classroom where everyone shares with toys and eats the same snack and there's no more capitalism. Me and Bojangles don't think so. We think communism kills you incentive to innovate or to put in more hours, more blood, sweat, and tears in your competitor to make a better product that not only financially benefits yourself, but also improves in some, improves society in some way, like by creating more jobs, but the SLA, they thought some Marxist system could cure all of America's ills, and they pushed this belief on Patty

Hurst hour after hour, day after day. And you know, many think that this completely brainwasher after a month or so. In study sessions, they attacked her family personally, over and over again. They showed her a list of the current Hurst family holdings, nine newspapers, 13 magazines, four TV radio stations, a silver mine, a paper mill. Many prime pieces of real estate on and on and on. They told her that she was clearly part of the ruling elite. How dare her parents create thousands of jobs and build an empire?

What are they doing? Living the American dream? How dare her forefathers become more successful than peers? SLA members told Patti that nothing mattered to her parents more than money. They told her that her parents and the economic class they represented were to blame for her misery and the misery of countless others.

And the only way their love for money could be conquered was with guns and violence. They hugged her, called her their sister by all accounts, made themselves into her substitute family. They began to make not just a political connection with her, but an emotional one. And by the end of February, she was more of an SLA member than a captive. Within a month of being taken in Heldhausen, she'd also established a sexual connection with someone in the group, not surprising, given that she was, you know, 20 in the group, adamantly believed in free love.

She'd begun sleeping with 23-year-old Willie Wolff, aka Kujo. Wolff was the closest to padding agent background. The son of a Pennsylvania doctor, he'd attended private schools, his whole life, been a varsity swimmer, sports editor of the school paper. He'd spent a summer working with kids in Harlam, and excuse me, in Harlem, then spurned the Wolf Family

Yale tradition and enrolled in Berkeley, or at Berkeley where he'd room with SLA member Russell Little and Met Singh Q. On February 28th, the second pin food distribution goes on, has fewer problems in the first. Ludlow Kramer would later recall that the program gave away $30,000 worth of top quality food to Oakland's poor. Crazy. They actually did pull this off. They made a billionaire feed his city's poor. On March 4th, California governor Ronald Reagan, having earlier predicted that no one would

take the food from pin, accuses the thousands of people who line up for free groceries of 18 and abetting lawlessness. And thousands of Californians poor are undoubtedly heard saying super clever things like fuck one Reagan. On March 5th and 8th, the third and fourth pin food distributions take place. The hers still have no idea where their daughter is. In a fourth tape, released on March 9th, Patty Hurst is heard criticizing her parents saying I don't believe that you're doing anything at all.

What are you talking about? They're feeding so many people. They're trying to give it away millions! What a mind-fuck for a appearance. How do you even process your kid being kidnapped and then turned against you? Right? You're so happy that they're alive, but also you got to be constantly thinking, what the fuck? All I ever did was give you an amazing home! The best childhood! Now I'm the bad guy! March 10th, newspapers announced that they will no longer print SLA communicates in full, enough's enough. From the bad guy! March 10th, newspapers announced that they will no longer print SLA communicates in full. Enough's enough.

From March 10th to March 13th, Randolph Hearst secretly meets with Clifford Death Row Jefferson and other inmates who are SLA contacts at the Vacaville prison. He's desperately trying to find a way to reach his daughter. The discussion seemed to lead nowhere, at least not immediately. On March 25th, food is given away yet again on the Hurst Dime to 30,000 people in Pins 5th and Final Distribution Attempt. On March 31st, Clifford Deathrogev sent in other SLA contacts appealed to the SLA on behalf of Randolph Hurst to begin negotiations for Patties release. For the first time in over a month, he's

hopeful he's close to bringing his daughter home. On April 2nd, the SLA sends a note to the San Francisco Phoenix promising more details on the possibility of Patty's release within 72 hours. Then on April 3rd, less than two months after she been kidnapped, Patty shocks the world with a following recorded message. Mom, Dad, tell the poor and oppressed people of this nation what the corporate state is about to do. Worn black and poor people that they were about to be murdered down to the last man, woman, and child.

Tell the people that the energy crisis is nothing more than a mean to get public approval for a massive program to build nuclear power plants all over the nation. Tell the people that the entire corporate state is with the aid of this massive power supply, about to totally automate the entire industrial state to the point that in the next five years, all that will be needed is a small class of button pushers. Tell the people, Dad, that the removal of expendable excess, the removal of unneeded people, has already started. I have been given the choice of one being released in a safe area or two, joining the forces of the Sy released in a safe area or two joining the forces of the Symbianese Liberation Army and fighting for my freedom and the freedom of all oppressed

people. I have chosen to stay in fight. I have been given the name Tenea after a comrade who fought alongside Che in Bolivia. It is in the spirit of Tenea that I say, Patria Amuete, Vensaremos. It is in the spirit of Tenea that I say, I am the grasshopper. I will eat the seeds of capitalist greed. It is the spirit of the need that I say, I am the carpenter ants, carrying small twigs and leaf particles,

and like, and things like that, like back to my colony, like all other social ants working together, unlike, let's say, a greed driven capitalist trained mantis, who seem to kind of do their own thing, and not really work with other trained mantises, for the betterment of all mantis. You dig?

I mean, unless they are mating, whenever you see mantis, it appears. When do you see those capitalist pig mantis using their creepy front leg claw top things to maybe pass nourishment from one mantis to another mantis? And it got demon fucking Peter! We're so sick of this bug shit! Okay, obviously the Peter bug stuff was me again. And obviously, the entire Hearst family is taken aback by this message. And also very fun to speak in that cadence with that kind of music in the background.

Ah, what have been fun to put out these messages. And one of Patty's four sisters goes on record saying she was sure that Patty had been brainwashed by hearing one side of the story. Randolph Hearst expresses similar disbelief. It'll be Stephen Weed, all I know it was a different time, but still kind of creepy math, Tudor McGee, who would acknowledge that maybe there had been a real change in Patti during her captivity, saying, I am reconciled to the idea that Patti must have matured a great deal in the past two months.

I just want to tell Patti that I love her as much as ever, and I think she knows that I can accept whatever she has chosen. Even though it may be hard for me, I can accept it. I feel like Randolph is hearing this thinking, damn, you really want some of my inheritance someday, don't you, Steven? needing to solidify herce commitment to their cause and get some money to live off of the SLA hastily plans a bank robbery and insist that herce participate in it shortly after this last message goes out. On April 15th, Patty Hurst informed members of the SLA are caught on security camera holding up the hi-per-ne-hyper-ne-a-hiber-ne-a-hiber-ne-a-bank at 1450, Noriega, at 22nd Avenue. If her family thought that they were shocked before, now their minds are really blown.

Five of the bank robbers, including Patty, entered the bank while four remain outside, all make it get away in two automobiles after firing several shots from automatic weapons and they make off with almost $11,000. The bank guard would later remark that patty seemed quite comfortable with the gun. So you seem according to him, like she was ready to shoot anything or anyone who got in her way. Two civilians are shot during this robbery. Luckily, both will live. Of course, the big question on everyone's mind now, as the story is broadcast around the

world, complete with security camera footage of Patty definitely joining in on the robbery, was whether her's was merely a witness or actually a perpetrator. And no one is as interested in this question as much as the FBI is. The FBI has students at the Berkeley School for the Deaf, read Patty's lips off of the security footage, and find out she has said, I'm Tanya up, up, up, up, up against the wall, motherfucker. Her parents must have been losing their minds at this point. They've just witnessed their privileged daughter go from kidnapping victim to a bank robber. Truly can't imagine. On April 23rd, eight days after this bank robbery, the FBI issues a wanted poster with pictures of Donald David DeFries, Patricia Michelle. And I hate her last name so much.

Solsosick, Nancy Ling Perry, Kimmelikristeen Hall, and Patricia Campbell Hurst. Across the country, Americans continue to debate whether or not Hurst participated willingly or was coerced. In a six audio tape released on April 24th, Patty offers evidence of her full participation in the bank robbery. She states that at no time did her comrades have a gun pointed at her. She now refers to her family as pig hersts. Mmm, nice, pig hersts.

And to Steven Wheat is an agiast, sexist pig. She also says, as for being brainwashed, the idea is ridiculous to the point of being beyond belief. I am a soldier in the people's army. So she's in. She's real in. She's one of the most gossiped about people in the country now. Dinner conversations around the US or Senate around,

did you hear, Petty's latest message? Oh my God. A week later on May 1st, staying just barely ahead of FBI agents, searcher for them. SLA members pack up their weapons and supplies, move from a Golden Gate Avenue apartment to Oakland Street in the Bayview District. The next day on May 2nd, the FBI fined the abandoned Golden Gate

Avenue apartment. Just missed him. Two weeks later on May 16th, an incident that will confirm to many that Patty was indeed now voluntarily a member of the SLA. Patty was sitting alone in a Volkswagen while SLA members Emily and Bill Harris enter store in Los Angeles. Patty sees a fight breakout between Bill and the store clerk, and to prevent the Harris's from being arrested, patty shoots 2730 caliber bullets into the store front in rapid succession. What the fuck? Guess in her mom cried a bit that day. Cry a bit more. The incident alerts the LAPD to the fact that the SLA is in town, and this is not good for the SLA. While the San Francisco PD was most used to dealing with petty crime at that time, the LAPD were a militarized force that had serious experience in both dishing out and dealing

with violence. The next day on May 17th, 1974, the LAPD finds SLA members Donald DeFries, Willie Wolf, Patricia Solst, stupid name, Camilla Hall, Angela Awood, Nancy Ling Perry, and a House in Compton, and a shootout ensues with SWAT team members. Rather than risks of billions being shot, and because the SLA members refuse to leave the apartment, or excuse me, refuse to leave the house, the police set the building on fucking fire with gas canisters. Holy shit, a TV reporter announces that anyone in the house must be either dead or dying, and the reporter is right.

All six SLA members die in the Compton House. One four six six East 54 Street. And for a while, there is speculation that Patty is among the deceased, but that's not the case. The Harris isn't Patty. Harris watched the shootout on TV from their motel room near Disneyland in Anaheim. William Harris recalled later that Patty wanted revenge for the raid immediately. She wanted to kill some cops for killing both her lover and her leader.

And for killing her friends, people she now considered her family. She is full fucking SLA. Despite the death of their founder and leader and several key members, the SLA, not over. On June 7th, 1974, a seventh tape recorded message is sent to the press. Patty Hearst offers a eulogy for those killed in the shootout. She proclaims her love for Willie Wolf and vows that the SLA will continue its noble fight. Mass Tutor Stephen Weed spends most of June 7th probably punching and crying into his

pillow. Bill Harris becomes the SLA's new general field marshal also in June of 1974. Patty Hearst is driven to New York and then to rural Pennsylvania where she will hide on a farm with patty bill and Emily Harris for damn near a year her family has no idea where she is. In November after months of not hearing from patty ran off herst now withdraws an offer of a fifty thousand dollar reward for her safe return. He must be so pissed. Does he no longer see his daughter primarily as a victim now,

does he see her mainly as a criminal? I wonder. Finally on April 21st, so confusing. This story is so weird. Like how would you, there's so little comparable stories to this. It'd be so tough to emotionally process all this. Finally on April 21st, 1975, the SLA resurfaces.

Four SLA members hold up the Crocker Bank in Carmichael, California. The enter the bank, announce it's a hold up till everyone to get down on the floor and put their faces in the rug, then a shot rings out. Mourna, a softful, a 42 year old mother or two who is there to deposit church collection money shot and killed by Emily Harris. Another SLA member announces that at the rest of the bank cup, customers don't cooperate. Everyone will get the same treatment as Mourna. And then two other SLA members jump over the counter,

start grabbing cash. They kick people in the head, step on their faces, continually shop for fanaties, verbally abusing these people, meanwhile, patty waits outside, driving the getaway car. During an interview held before her trial later, hers recalled her involvement in this robbery, saying, most of the time I was with them, my mind was going through doing exactly what I was supposed to do.

I had been educated very well in what to do. I had been, you know, held in the closet for two months, and you know, abused in all manner of ways. I was very good at doing what I was told. I mean, they call us Stockholm syndrome and post-traumatic stress disorder, and you know, I had no free will. It was considered wrong for me to think about my family and when St. Cue was around he didn't want me thinking about rescue because he thought that brain waves could be red or

that you know they'd get a psychic in to find me. And I was afraid even for that it was a very strange group of people bound by you know the SLA codes of war and they follow them very religiously. I was not inside the bank. Finally, five months after this robbery, Patty is captured by the police. On September 18, 1975, SLA members Patty, Bill and Emily Harris and Wendy Yashimura are found at 625 more street in San Francisco. Patty been missing for 591 days over 19 months. Cooperation between the San Francisco PD and the Federal Bureau of Investigation lead to her

capture. FBI agents who have been staking out a house on 288 for Città Avenue in the Bernal Heights District on a tip spotted Bill and Emily Harris walking down a sidewalk and jogging entire. Bill was an easy takedown. Emily tried to run. They both are apprehended. At the same time, FBI agents Tom Padden and Tim Casey go up the back stairs to the Moore Street apartment where they can see the living room and kitchen through the Dutch door. They see Patty and Wendy, Yashamura,

sitting in the table inside. Patty starts to get up and Agent Padden yells, FBI, freeze, I'm gonna blow Yashamura's head off. Agent Tom Casey chimes in saying, Patty, don't make a move. Patty does not make a move. And Agent Patton goes inside and puts cuffs on her. Tom Casey asks Patty, what she was doing there

and she replies, I'd rather not tell you about it. To quote, she's being booked in the officer asked her for her occupation. She also replied, urban gorilla. I laughed so hard when I first read, I'd rather not tell you about it. That to me is such a rich kid, they'd say to the police, somebody who's had such a privileged childhood.

Do you want to, do you mind telling me why I pulled you over today, ma'am? Hmm, I'd rather not tell you about it. Upon hearing that Patty had been found, her family hired a well-respected California attorney, Terrence, Helen Anne to Defender, and Patty struck Halenaean as a genuine SLA member. Halenaean had prepared a defense of involuntary intoxication. Patty would claim that she'd been given drugs, that the drugs helped converter to their ideology, but Patty's parents didn't want drugs involved in the defense. They were too worried about the reputation.

They said the defense should stick to duress and brainwashing and nothing else. Halenaean kept telling the family that wasn't a defense, but the Hearst would not listen. On February 4th, 1976, Patty's trial begins two years to the day after her kidnapping. By this time, a defense team has rejected numerous offers by the prosecution to strike a lenient plea bargain, because prominent attorney, Eiffelie Bailey, who had joined the defense team, was confident he could win the case. The Hearst, again, worried about the reputations, wanted Patty declared completely innocent of all crimes.

So they go to trial, judge all of her J Carter presides over the trial and Patty is charged as an accomplice in the robbery of the hibernia bank. I couldn't say that earlier. Why? Patty herself later admitted that she expected to be charged with murder, although the prosecution had footage of her holding the gun at the scene of the crime, Patty pled not guilty. She claimed that she had been brainwashed into action against her own will and therefore could not be held guilty for what she had done.

And defending his client, Bailey examined a team of witnesses, expert and otherwise, who testified that her showed all the symptoms of Stockholm syndrome. A rare psychological disorder in which a kidnapping victim begins to identify with their captors. It was a new term at the time of the trial and we'll break down You know this term further after the timeline Bailey also claimed that she suffered from a power survivor syndrome. No now is PTSD Bailey said that Bailey said that above all patty had feared for her life and cooperated with her kidnappers merely to survive but this didn't play well with the jury

patty had been an SLA member from seven weeks after her kidnapping until she was captured incorporated with her kidnappers merely to survive, but this didn't play well with the jury. Patty had been an SLA member from seven weeks after her kidnapping until she was captured, you know, over 19 months after her, you know, initial kidnapping. The first statements, her first issue following the bank robbery in which she seemed to strongly identify with SLA's cause didn't set well with the jury. She had closed personal ties to SLA members, especially Willie Wolf. When she was arrested, she wore a stone, Olmeck monkey face pendant that Willie had given her.

She just didn't seem like someone under any duress. Also even if Bailey could convince the jurors that her had been brainwashed, that alone was not considered a defense under federal law. And then there was Dr. Joel Fort, a psychiatrist brought in by the prosecution who testified that he considered hers to be a prime candidate for true SLA membership. He felt that she had stayed in the group and committed crimes with them definitely over on free will. Fort stated that he felt that Patty had found a community in the SLA.

He noted that her background was similar to many other SLA members who had come from comfortable, upper middle class homes. Fort's expert testimony was incredibly damaging to Patty's defense. But perhaps the most damage was done by Patty herself. Time and time again on the witness stand, she gave mono-salabic answers to lengthy questions. She seemed disinterested.

She invoked her fifth amendment right, not to answer questions over and over again, because she was afraid she might incriminate herself. She did a total of 42 times. After it was all said and done, the jury debated for just 12, excuse me, I thought it was minutes there, my nose. She debated for 12 very intense hours

before finding herst guilty of arm robbery and the use of a firearm to commit a felony. In the end, many jurors thought herst lied about her role in the SLA. One juror concluded that herst was lying through and through and that no woman would keep a love token from someone who abused her. Herse repeated taking of the fifth didn't sit well with jurors, one explained it was a

real shocker. A witness can't just tell you what he wants to tell you and not tell you what he doesn't want to. Herse was sentenced to seven years in prison for her crimes. She would serve just two. In February 1979, newly elected president Jimmy Carter commutes her sentence to time served. I'm sure having super rich capitalist, fascist pig parents helped with that, you know, little favor. Then more than 20 years later, during the last days of his time in office, Bill Clinton grants Hurst a full pardon. Two months after her release from prison 1979, Hurst marries Bernard Lee Shaw, a policeman who is part of her security detail

during her time on bail. They will go on to have two children, Jillian and Lydia, her shot. No word on what happened to old Stephen Weed, a poor math tutor. He just kind of disappears from the story. Patty would go on to do a bit of acting, appearing in some feature films

for director John Waters, who cast her in Crybaby, serial mom, Pecker, a dirty shame, and Cecil B. Demented. After Patty's arrest, the SLA officially dies out. Everyone in the group ends up either dead and incarcerated or goes into hiding only to be tracked down at some point by the FBI and imprisoned later.

Today only one SLA member is still alive and in jail. The rest are either live in free or dead. This group changed some lives forever in terrible ways. It never became the instrument of lasting change that it's few radical believers envisioned. A reporter once asked member Bill Harris after he spent years in prison, what did you accomplish? And he replied, nothing. Mainly, what we accomplished is we got ourselves into jail. Randomly in 2017, Patty Hearst took home two titles at the Westminster Dog Show, according to The New York Times,

pretty random. Patty is also a comedian, podcast, or actor in TV host Chris Hardwick's mother-in-law. Chris married her daughter, actress, and model, Lydia Hearst in 2016. Chris and I used to have the same manager and did some tapings together years ago. Small world. What else is Patty Hurst up to now?

Don't know. 66 year old mother or two keeps a pretty low profile. Now let's hop out of the timeline and take a look at the Stockholm syndrome. Good job, soldier. You made it back. Barely. So what is Stockholm Syndrome and did Patty have it? Well, it's a made of disease and no, she did not.

Time now for today's top five takeaways. Time shock, top five! Dickay! Come on, no. Uh, that'd be a super annoying ending to the show. Stockholm Syndrome is a psychological response Where an captive begins to identify, closely with his or her captors, as well as with their agenda and demands.

Interestingly, the incident that Snock home syndrome gets its name from remains pretty obscure. Outside of Sweden, few know the names of those involved in the kidnapping situation that gave the condition its name. Let's talk about it real quick. On August 23rd, 1973, less than a year before Patty Hearst was kidnapped,

four bank workers, Brigitte Lundblad, Elizabeth Oldgren, Kristen N. Mark, and Sven Sofstrom, who worked for, oh boy. So there it is, creditbankandstockhome. We're taking hostage in the 32 year old, or taking hostage in, or excuse me, taking hostage by. There we go. 32 year old career criminal Jan Eric Olsen also was later joined at the bank by a former prisonmate career criminal Clark Oloson

six days later when the standoff ended it quickly became evident that the victims had formed some kind of positive relationship with their captors and one phone call from the banks vault to the country's prime minister, Olaf Palm, bank employee, Kristen N. Mark, beg to be allowed to leave the bank with the kidnappers. When Paul refused, she said she was very disappointed with him and added, I think you are sitting there playing checkers with our lives. I fully trust Clark and the robber. I am not desperate. They haven't done a thing to us.

On the contrary, they have been very nice. But you know, Olaf, what I'm scared of is that the police will attack and cause us to die somehow. These six bank workers got into their heads that the police or the villains, not the criminals. How? The hostess spoke of being well treated by the robbers and it appears that they believed that they owed their lives to the two criminals. On one occasion, a claustrophobic Elizabeth's old grin was allowed to leave the vault that had become their prison, but only with the rope fixed around her neck. She said that at the time she thought it was very kind of Olsen to allow her to move around the floor of the bank.

When he treated us well, we could think of him as an emergency god. Sven Safestrom would later say, And the concept of Stockholm syndrome was born. The phrase was coined by Swedish criminologist and psychiatrist Nils Beerts, Nils Begeruts, maybe, hanga, hanga, hanga, it's hard to figure out the emphasis. And the American psychiatrist, Dr. Frank Oakberg, intrigued by the phenomenon, went on to define the syndrome for the FBI and Scotland Yard.

His criteria included the following. First, people would experience something terrifying that just comes at them out of the blue. They are certain they are going to die. Then they experience the type of infant infant tele, infant tele, they become like babies. We're like a child. They are unable to eat, speak or go to the toilet without permission. Small acts of kindness, such as being given food, promise a primitive gratitude for the gift of life he explains, the host just experienced a powerful, primitive, positive feeling towards their chapter.

They are indenisable that this is the person who put them in the situation. In their mind, they think this is the person who's going to let them live. In short, psychologists believe that when a chapter threatens a captive's life, deliberates and then chooses not to kill the captives, the captives relief at the removal of the death threat

is transposed into feelings of gratitude toward the captor for giving him or her life. And it can take only a few days for this to occur. Dr. Augberg stresses that the true cases of Stockholm syndrome are rare. Making identification complicated, there are no widely accepted diagnostic criteria to identify the syndrome, which is also known as terror bonding or trauma bonding, and it is not an either of the two main psychiatric manuals. The diagnostic and statistic manual of mental disorders or the international statistical

classification of diseases and related health problems. Making identification even further complicated. Some people who many would consider as having succumb syndrome, deny having it. Austrian Natasha Kampuch, who was kidnapped as a 10 year old by Wolfgang Pricklepill, was held in a basement for eight years in a suburb of Vienna.

Crazy suck connection here. She was trapped in the basement just an hour and a half away from where monster Joseph Fritzel had his daughter and his daughter granddaughters, son grandsons trapped in his basement. And there were periods of captivity, these periods of captivity, excuse me, overlapped one another for several years. What the fuck was going on, Austria? Anyways, when Natasha's capture died, she reportedly cried for him and subsequently lit a candle for him as he lay in the mortuary.

But in a 2010 interview with the Guardian, Natasha rejected the label of Stockholm syndrome, I'm going to have to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide.

I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. It's about empathy, communication, looking for normality within the framework of a crime is not a syndrome. It's a survival strategy. Well, whatever you want to call it, survival, strategy, syndrome, sounds to me like Patty hers probably had it. She had a bunch of fellow Berkeley social activists surrounding her, telling her that her life had been a lie day after day, telling her that her family was what was wrong with America. Feel bad for it.

Had she not been kidnapped, she never would have committed the robbery she did unless she planned to be kidnapped, which we have no real proof of. What a story. Donald and Frey's after being arrested and released eight times after radicalizing and perhaps also being radicalized and prisoned by some Berkeley students eventually formed his own army. A small army was still army, and they successfully took a newspaper-era hostage.

And the freeze was about one of many revolutionaries who came out during the 60s and 70s in America and fancied themselves a savior of the working person. Was he a savior? I mean, yeah, he negotiated some food to be given to the poor, but other than that, he just wrote and or recorded a bunch of corporations or evil and the poor are tired of being oppressed. Some people have way too much money, just communist rally points, did a bunch of cheerleading, what he didn't do, other than get some meals dished out, was offer a better way.

What exactly was your revolution going to accomplish, Donald? What if you did tear down the robber barons of the 70s? What if you did liquidate the bank accounts of the Hurst and other billionaires? Then what? What better system of government would you have built in its place? What kind of communist state would you have built? One like Stalin's, USSR, maybe one like Pol Potts, Cambodia, maybe one like Mao Zedong's China or Castro's Cuba or Laos. Laos has been communist, you know, here by them a lot since 1955. How's that worked out? Not well. If you value free speech,

and if you like to not be randomly detained after some kangaroo court, you know, just fucking throws you in prison for some trumped up bullshit charges. Pull any national happiness index or global quality life index up and take a peek at the top 20 nations listed. You don't see a lot of communist nations, usually zero. Why if they're so great? Outside of the food extortion situation, the Freezoons army were just thugs,

posing as revolutionaries, right? They assassinated a gifted education administrator, they robbed banks, wounded innocent customers, killing one. I also tried to blow up some cop cars, we didn't even get into that, right? With police in them. And all for what?

Because they didn't like the government. Don't like it, go into politics, try and change some things. That's what my son Kylie wants to do. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, of money to insurance companies and lawyers and be able to lower the price of goods and important services like medical and dental care. You've actually got a lot of good ideas. He's a little more socialist, lot more probably than his dad. You know, he thinks some of my libertarian ideals are too radical, but I'd vote for him.

What about Patty Hearst? What was her real role in all of this? Did she really stage her kidnapping? With nothing more than a PI's hunch and some hearsay he came across, I don't think we'll ever be able to prove that. Let's say she didn't do it. Let's say she really was kidnapped. Can she truly blame Stockholm syndrome for all of her actions? I don't think so actually not 100%. Had she not been kidnapped, you know, like I said earlier, would she have robbed banks?'ve rob banks now highly doubted but if someone else have been kidnapped would they have joined the s l a so

enthusiastically i have serious doubts uh... i think she was a very extreme leftist burglary college kid also a spoiled rich kid who didn't know shit about how the world really worked was mad at daddy for coming down on her for uh... having different political opinions and interracial dating i think she was you know twenty years old and surrounded by extreme leftist radicals telling her to burn everything down.

You know, and burning everything down was burning mommy and daddy's empire down. I think a sort of teenage rebellion. She was only 19 when she was captured, played a huge part in how all this played out. Had the SLA kidnap some 40 year old? Nah, no fucking way. I don't think they'd join up with him later.

I think, but, you know but I've never been kidnapped. So easy for me to say. In the end, had it not been her fascist, pick parents, hiring a hot shot lawyer, she probably would have gone to prison for a lot longer than she did. Even though her parents did fuck up her defense a bit. After being in prison, she sure shit didn't maintain

her SLA communist ideals. Those ones that she ran it about and recordings sent to the press, did she? Now, she's part of the best in show Westminster Dog crowd now. That's about as bougie as it gets. I'm guessing she has, you know, better one time when I was 20 stories than her fellow purebred dog trainers. All right, that's all I got. Let's wrap up now with today's top five takeaways for real is time. Number 1 The Hurst Castle I'm Fascinated by this place. 115 rooms, 38 bedrooms, 42 bathrooms, theater, beauty salon, giant indoor Roman pool, 68,500

square feet, and it's only one of several homes built on a giant sprawling property complex looks like something built for a fucking Roman emperor And this complex originally set on 375 square miles of beautiful private land I get why that nerd Stephen weed tried to stick around wait for patty cakes. That is some serious wealth Number two, I doubt many saw Donald David deFries as ever leading a group of revolutionaries before he actually did. It was shitty arm-breaking dad. He got mixed up in crime at a young age. He became obsessed with guns and explosives.

He quickly had three kids. He also quickly abandoned. He got arrested a whole bunch of times, finally went to prison and then formed a communist group of revolutionaries and then kidnapped the daughter of a billionaire before, you know, burning alive during the shootout with police at the age of only 30. Number three, after failing to get their buddies out of prison, the SLA used Patty as a bargaining chip to have thousands of poor people fed. The Hearst family paid out millions to form the organization people in need only to have the attempt to backfire into riots and have their daughter patty criticize them for not providing enough beef or lamb. 1974 was a terrible year

for Randolph and Catherine Hurst. Number four, Patricia went from a rebellious rich girl to a hard core beret wearing machine gun tooting child of revolution. She was sentenced to seven years in prison, but her sense was commuted by President Jimmy Carter 1979. And since then, she's let a pretty quiet life. Number five, new info. William Randolph Hurst, Patty's grandfather, was the basis for a movie that has topped more best films of all time lists than perhaps any other film, 1941's Citizen Came. And Hurst hated this movie.

The thinly veiled, unflattering biography of a wealthy tyrant was produced by Orson Wells and put all of Hurst character flaws out there for the public to see them, his greed, his moral weakness, the effects of his poor behavior on his friends and family, even more loathsome to herst and his allies was the portrayal of Cain's second wife, a young alcoholic singer with strong parallels to herst mistress, the showgirl turned actress Mary and Davies. After catching a preview screening of the unfinished citizen Kane on January 3rd, 1941, the influential gossip columnist had a hopper wasted no time passing along the news to

Hurst and his associates that the film was obviously about him. And Hurst then used his leverage to get the film's advertising out of the press. Hurst news papers also went after Wells accusing him of calming his sympathies, questioning his patriotism. A hersse went on to forbid his media holdings to advertise the film in any way whatsoever. Many other Hollywood moguls, who for the most part didn't like Orson Wells, finding him rude and arrogant, supported hersse. Louis B. Mayor, co-founder of Metro Golden Mayor, even offered to pay RKO pictures $842,000

in cash if the studio's president George Schaeffer would destroy the negative and all the prints of citizen king. Just throw it away, burn it, get rid of it. Schaeffer refused to threaten to sue. Though it would be nominated for nine Oscars and ultimately be hailed by critics as one of the best, if not the best movie of all time, Hirst managed to destroy its premiere and initial profitability. Many theaters would not run this movie when it came out out of fear of being punished

by Hirst. And Orson Well said that when he watched the premiere in the theater, he sat in an almost empty theater. Time suck, tough, five take away. Hirst man, they have some power and some influence, but not enough to get their daughter away from the SLA, not in a timely fashion. The kidnapping of Patty Hurst has been sucked, such an odd, unique story. Hope you found it as interesting as I do. Very hard to find a similar tale out there, right?

Rich Kidgets Kidnapped by a group of domestic terrorists then joins the gang help Simron banks Crazy Thank you to the bad magic production team for for helping making time suck every week queen of bad magic Lindsey Cummins Reverend Dr. Joe Paisley the script keeper Zach Flannery Bitalixer Logan art warlock Keith Bad magic Baron SK Keith running bad magic merch.com and the socials Please join the closely curious Curious Private Facebook group if you want some community to go along with this podcast. Thank you to Liz Hernandez,

her all-seeing eyes for moderating it. Thanks to Beefstake, who's now our official ambassador of fun over on Discord. Congrats to Sergeant Awesome for currently leading round two of our new TimeSuck trivia game available only to Space Lizards on the TimeSuck app. 5,068 points, hundreds of points to, you know, ahead of second place, very impressive. It's going to be hard to beat, but there is still more trivia to come in round two.

It doesn't end until Monday, September 7th at 3pm Pacific time, and that's when round three begins. Next week on time sucks shit is going to get real crazy. We're going to return to both California and the 1970s to examine someone way worse than Donald DeFries. We return to the annals of true crime and suck on a legit psychopath, the vampire of Sacramento Richard Chase. It's gonna be like an Albert Fish, Yahooem Crow, Ed Camper, Chicatilo kind of suck.

We touched on this maniac and the FBI behavioral science unit suck. Chase has been called the poster boy for the FBI's disorganized killer profile. Sadistic random, so extreme. Chase didn't just kill him mutilated. He was a cannibal, plus an obsessed consumer of blood and a necrophiliac. He's fucking triple crown of psychopaths. In a month-long murder spree in the mid-70s, it was like something out of one of Clive Barker's nightmares. He busched her to total of six men, women, and sadly even children in the most heinous ways. When police searched his department, they discovered that nearly every surface within it was saturated in blood from the walls to his eating utensils, then there were the contents of the

refrigerator. Richard Chase said he needed to kill to save himself. From what? The answer is pretty hard to believe. Very hard to believe mostly because they don't make a lot of sense because he was out of his fucking mind. Join us next week for a suck on a truly dark and demented mind in a real monster, the vampire of Sacramento. And now let's get balls deep into today's Time-sucker updates. Our first update count from SuperSucker, Alexandra Cesar, who just wants to send some positive

thoughts, and-or-prayers the way of a hurt friend, sucker, space lizard, and solid meat sack. Alexandra writes, Afternoon Suck Master Supreme. I just got some pretty awful news that a friend, Nathan Fleck, has been in a pretty bad motorcycle accident. While we still don't have all the details, we know he's been through surgery and is currently in a medically induced coma. He has a lot of good people by his side. We are all rooting for his recovery, but it will be a long road ahead of him. He's a die hard time sucker, spaceless, as well as a huge fan of your standup. Maybe more so than I am. I, uh, LOL, I was really hoping

we could give him a shout out and just let all the suckers send him, as many positive vibes as they can. He's a prime example of a great meat sack who is always there for his fellow humans. If this gets to you, thank you for the read and keep on sucking Alexandra Cesar. Wow, very kind and thoughtful of you, Alexandra.

Nathan, I hope you can hear this man. Hope you're fighting with everything you've got. Get the fuck out of that hospital before you catch some COVID. You're going on your rehab. So you can get back on that bike and hurry up. You have awesome friends like Alexandra who are tired of worrying about you.

Seriously, we're thinking of you. Hoping you can bounce back hard and quick like Reverend Dr. Paisy's horse cock. But for real man, get better, get better soon. That's it with you. Top shelf sack, Karsten Anderson now has a skin walker ranch side into share with us. Interest is peaked.

Karsten writes, hello master sucker. I just listened to the skin walker ranch suck and would like to talk about an experience I had with a skin walker while I lived on the reservation. I was driving to a ladies house with my companion. I was on an LDS mission and saw a strange dog-like figure standing in the street. We exited the car, walked to the lady's house to talk with her.

We did so for about 15 minutes. This dog was standing there looking at us the entire time. As we were leaving, the lady said, be careful. As we got back on the truck, we noticed the dog or whatever the hell it was left. We turned the corner on the side of the road. We saw the same dog like creature getting up off its all-for's. Its eyes turned a weird, green, yellowish color.

I feared for my life. We drove off as fast as we could. I know most people don't believe my story, but honestly, I saw what I saw. I don't care what others say. Hopefully you can share this story and the upcoming suck. Give a shout out to my sexy wife, Maddie, for helping me through these hard times. Keep sucking the sweet suckness. Thank you, Karsten. And hello, Maddie, aka Karsten's Lucifina. May you forever tempt him. That story's intense. Holy shit, man. F**k did you see? Did you see

that dog that Terry Sherman sucker punched? Seriously though. There are so many stories like yours So I hope the skin walker ranch suck made you feel good about that in a weird way. I mean what the hell is going on out there I kind of want to see what you what you saw and I also kind of never ever ever ever ever want to see it Hail Nimrod and and I hope whatever's going on. It's not good turned around soon Now we have another skin walker side and coming in from a curious club member, Joel Schmolend, or Schmolend? Oh, Joel. I'm gonna call you Joel, Joel S.

It's kind of a skin walker side. Maybe not a skin walker side, totally, but he did see some weird shit. It scared him while he listened to the skin walker, suck. Anyway, Joel writes, my hands are still shaking. I was listening to the skin walker rant suck

on my way home from my shift at the hospital around midnight. The part started playing about Terry Joel writes, that I am not proud of. The deer was far enough away that I did not hit it and kept my composure while driving, so no harm was done, except that I need new pants. It's as if the aliens knew the exact moment to send out the deer. Anyways, thank you, Dan, the universe for scaring the Nimrod out of me. Praise Bojangles and Hail Lucifina all turned out well. Joe, Joe, you painted the picture beautifully there. Fucking deer.

Yes, they're cute, but Dan, but they are a menace on the road. Because you never know when they're gonna pop out. Now, I'm always gonna look out for their little beady glowing eyes at night. So many deer in my neighborhood. We just got a new fence and I hope it keeps those assholes out of the yard. It's crazy how much they can shit. So much shit that my dogs like to eat.

And then the deer shit makes them shit more. It's a shit cycle. I do not enjoy. Thanks for sharing that spooky moment. Now imagine if one of those deer were just stood up on its hind legs and maybe roared at you, just gone full-wendigo. It's a fun thought.

Now for a hateful message from a stupid Polish monster. Cameron Cochran, this terrible subhuman rights, deer master sucks, suckinator. Before I take a nice polite shit on you. I'd like to say that I started listening to times like a few months ago while searching for podcasts I've loved your comedy for years But you helped me survive the monotonous slog of work this year, so thank you for that With niceties out of the way time to get into it this week's episode on skin walker ranch was grating to listen to as a native

Utah and born and raised in Salt Lake and having recently moved across the country to Maryland I'm naturally very protective and fond of our beautiful mountains. So when I opened up Time Suck to see a close-to-home topic, I was excited. Until I wanted to drive an ice pick through my ear, they are the you and ta, not you and ta and wasa, wasa, wasa, wasa, these fucking stupid words, wasatch, not wasatch. It is insane to me that you said Dushan just fine. First try, but not the mountains for the whole episode. Anyway, you just wanted to give my favorite mush mouth a little hell on behalf of my favorite home state. As a side note, I love you to talk about something Polish soon. To force you to acknowledge

the Polish people's value and bad attitude, bears carrying artillery, undefeated cavalry for hundreds of years. We told Pellecki super bad ass keep on sucking Cameron just another dumb poll. Like listen Cameron, I have no excuse about the mispronunciation just so you know, I did add a phonetic guy to all of those words. However, between my own regional dialect and the proper dictionary.com pronunciation, not always matching the colloquial pronunciation. I fucking blew it. Also, I am very impressed that you were able

to send this message, whoever wrote it, whoever was able to take your Polish grunts and gibberish and translate it into real human words. And then write those words down, man, kudos to them, because that could not have been an easy job. Take a, seriously though, we do need some more Polish topics. And there are a lot of awesome polls out there. We can talk about some awesome Polish people.

Or what about a Polish serial killer? There's gotta be some. Why haven't we set some true crime in Poland yet? I can think of some additional slander. I can throw your people's way. Hill Nimrod will keep on trying to nail those fucking stupid regional words. Stop ruining my mouth, Luciferina, be gone temperous.

Now for some contrarian thoughts on socialism and also on whether or not we should judge someone by the norms the times they lived in or by some universal and timeless standard of human decency. Always good to take in contrasting opinions, super sucker, Joe Messina writes the following, hey Dan, love the show, my wife introduced me

to your podcast and stand up when we met almost four years ago. I still listen, she does not, but I still love her anyway. Uh-oh. I have been in and out of stand up for years myself, just never got around to making a career of it. Now, I request that you check to make sure both jangles is leashed as secure because I'm an avowed socialist. Ugh! I know, I know. I hope we can still be friends.

Actually, I appreciate your show because I know I can count on you to challenge my beliefs and good faith, which is something we can all benefit from. I have a appreciate your show because I know I can count on you to challenge my beliefs and good faith, which is something we can all benefit from. I have a specific topic I wanna bring up about the Disney suck. So I won't even go into the socialist nitty gritty. I won't for instance, I love this. Touch on the fact that Waltz Welle seemed to have actually destroyed his family

and that that much wealth should never be concentrated and his grandkids wouldn't have to rely on inheritance money if we all had well-funded universal social programs like single-payer healthcare and universal basic income or how the modern Disney corporations near monopolization of the entertainment industry is harmful and indicative of the new guilded age or the consequences of the type of union busty Disney did. I will not be bringing up any of those in this email. That was beautiful.

What I wanted to challenge you on is the notion that we can't judge people by modern standards and have to look past a lot of their negative beliefs and actions because it was of the time. Most likely, meat-sack have had great beliefs and abhorrent beliefs at all times throughout all of history. Good point. People who make the history books like Disney are presented as so impressive for their wealth and power.

They acquired that we must look past or unfortunate but of the time beliefs or at best we view them as complicated. Rich, famous, powerful people get to be complicated. Poor, powerless people are forgotten. The truth is not everyone in the 1930s and 40s thought like Disney. That's what we're talking about them. If that's true of his innovations, it can also be true of his beliefs and practices and it is. Take his meeting with Rife Install. I don't think it's reasonable to write off this as just business. Much like I was just following orders, this reason is too often used to justify evil acts

or associations. If we compare Walt to Universal Studios founder Carl Lemley, I have no guess on that pronunciation, I guess too. Someone in a similar position at the time, Walt's actions become even less defensible. Carl helped around 300 German Jewish families, which came out to over 1,000 people, escaped Nazi Germany and immigrate to the US. He gave many of them jobs at Universal, which both made it easier to get approved as an immigrant or refugee and to get on their feet in their new lives.

This wasn't easy to pull off, but we're talking about extraordinary people who stand out. I'm sure many average Joe's and Jones had attitudes about Nazism similar to Waltz and many similar to Carl's. I'm not opposed to considering the context of a time period and why a historical figure would have held a belief they did, but some things are not acceptable no matter what time period you're in. Slavery abolitionism in what is now the US dates back to the 1600s, which is when the North American slave trade began and Northern States started banning slavery soon after the Revolutionary War. That tells me there is little to no excuse for

pro slavery stances, especially in the by the 1800s. The Southern states made Thomas Jefferson remove his condemnation of slavery from the Declaration of Independence. Aaron Burr was a fervent abolitionist. Where's his fucking musical? I guess Burr isn't the catchest title. Side note, Jefferson and Burr both own slaves. Now that's what I call complicated. It's okay to admire the work Disney did, but it's also okay to unequivocally say the bad

things he did were bad. This attitude of that's just how people used to think not only excuses the crimes of historical figures, but encourages ageism in the form of ascribing bad ideas like racism, sexism, xenophobia, capitalism, agree to disagree, only to people of certain age groups. For generations, people have said stuff like we just need to wait for these old out of touch assholes to die out, then we'll sort all this out, which erases the fact that there are a ton of young racist bucks out there and plenty of sweeties who are 60 years young or more still doing what they can to make the world a better place.

Anyway, all this really amount to is that we shouldn't deify historical figures because in the end, they're all just human. When we put people on a pedestal, we give them too much power and that never ends well. I'll even jab my own side here. This is what gets you communist, communist tyrants like Stalin or Mao. It was Marx's stupid idea that communism should give temporary to authoritarian power, to one person in a transitional phase. And then that person should give up said power.

You know how humans are, oh, you know how humans are always willing to give up power? We see the same problem on display in the US decades in the US. Sorry, decades of executive overreach have led to Trump and the presidency in general having way too much power for one person back to Disney. His wealth and power led to an exploited workforce and a dangerously monopolized monopolized entertainment industry. Disney accounted for 38% of the box office in 2019 and eight out out of 10, or 80% of the top grossing films the same year. Even if you do love the free market,

I don't think this is how it's supposed to work. One company controlling everything with no competition. I have a friend who did union organizing work for Disney workers, and I can assure you, much like most US corporations, the House of Mouse fights tooth and nail to give as little as possible to the workers who generate their wealth.

Corporations have too much power in this country. I think I'll give it a rest there. I hope you'll consider some of what I said here because I believe you're at your best when you're questioning everything. Thanks for the show. Keep on sucking. While so much info, Joe, where do I begin? You make a lot of good points about how you you shouldn't give someone a pass on doing something bad just because they did a lot of good. And then it's not good to deify historical figures. However, I also don't want to become part of today's cancel culture and ignore the good, someone is done because they did some bad stuff too, because we all have not that that's

exactly what you're saying. But with this Walt and Lenny Reifensol, did Walt have Lenny Reifensol in his home and give her a tour of his studio? Yes. Was she a Nazi sympathizer? Yes. Had the Holocaust begun yet tour of his studio? Yes. Was she a Nazi sympathizer? Yes. Had the Holocaust begun yet when she came over? No.

Was the focus of her films, hatred of the Jewish people? No. Have you ever had someone over to your house who may have been racist? Probably. Maybe a member of a political party with other racist members?

I bet you have. We can't know what everyone else thinks. Even our friends, are you greatly familiar with the political leanings and racial opinions of everyone you've ever had over? I doubt it. Ever find out something later about someone and be like, holy shit, I had no idea.

So-and-so was racist or misogynistic, xenophobic, or whatever. I have no one's perfect. Not that that's what you're saying. But I also hope that I didn't suggest that I thought while Disney was perfect. I just refused to subscribe to this current notion of oh shit, so-and-so had slaves

or so-and-so cheated on his wife or so-and-so was racist, sexist oh shit, so and so had slaves or so and so cheated on his wife or so and so was racist, sexist, whatever, so fuck everything they did. Yes, certain heroic people do rise above the times they live in and that is beyond admirable, but I bet we could find something wrong with most of those people too if we looked hard enough. Maybe they stole something.

Maybe they spread some bad rumors, something. To me Walt Disney being friendly with the Nazi sympathizer in 1938 isn't necessarily a big deal because I don't know how well versed he was in international politics. Now we can look back at that year, look back at what was happening in Germany and be like, what the fuck? But did Walt know at the time exactly what was going on? Maybe, but maybe not. My son, Kategorius, annoyed with me for not knowing what was going on all the time politically.

And I tell him, I don't have fucking time. I work on breaking down stories running a business at a good 60 hours plus a week. I try and stay current, but there's, you know, there's only so much time and there's so much news out there. Walt was a busy dude. Busy or the me, he was managing a huge company,

cranking out so many productions. Maybe he didn't really know who the hell Lenny Rife and Saul was. I doubt her first words to Walt were, hi, I'm Lenny and I hit the juice, hi, I'll hitler, highly doubt it. So words to wall where hi, I'm Lenny and I hate to juice. Hi, I'll hit her. Highly doubt it.

So I think you see the point I'm making here. This is why I don't like to deconstruct heroes too much and to nitpick on certain things. I like heroes. I like to be inspired. I expect them to be flawed. You mentioned wall getting so much more attention than his workers and I just think he should. Is it harder to launch a business than it is to hold down a job? I've done both and I think it is.

Not that there isn't a lot of value in holding down jobs, but he didn't just launch a business, he launched an empire. Why does so many of us applaud that? Because it's very rare. Uh, it's rare to hit over 60 home runs in a season of Major League Baseball. That's why guys who do that get paid a lot more than the guys who don't.

They bring in more fans, more people are impressed, rare and difficult to be so much better at basketball than everyone else. You can average over 30 points a game for a season in the NBA. Whoever does that, gonna get paid a lot more than somebody who averages two points a game. 30 point dude sells more tickets. It's exciting to watch. And it's more exciting to talk about someone building one of the biggest media empires

in the world than it is to talk about someone clocking in on a 95. Does it mean the empire builder is a better person than the factory worker? Fuck no, definitely not. Does it mean they're leading a more unique and therefore intrinsically more interesting and suck really life does to me? Should Disney be able to monopolize the entertainment industry? No, I'm a capitalist, but I'm also a big fan of anti-trust loss. I'm a fan of regulated capitalism. I'm a strong proponent in government regulated capitalism, which I know goes against some libertarian views. And wow, you've given me a full podcast worth of points to address here, Joe.

You're clearly a very smart doom. I so appreciate you listing to a podcast hosted by some with very different political leanings and a different historical perspective than you do. I love contrasting opinions. I don't want to live in some kind of, you know, psychophantic echo chamber. Now, it's a big word I tried to pull off. I think I got 80% of it. There's too much that going on right now.

People just doubling down on beliefs, they've held for years, but never really examined. People surround themselves with people who only think exactly like they do, and I fucking hate it. I hate mindless tribalism. I hate mindless nationalism. I hope this show always has listeners like you.

Are we thinking about your word for quite some time? Already have been hail fucking Nimrod Mr. Messina we can get along we can get along just fine. Thanks for the updates everyone Thanks time suckers. I need a net. We all did. Thanks for tuning in to another suck appreciate the continued ratings and reviews. The suck still gross despite my mush mouth. Haven't lost you all yet. New is we dumb comedy podcast on Wednesday.

Man, thanks for the feedback. It's been so fun. We're so happy that so many people like it. Having a blast with Mr. Joe, more scared of death Tuesday nights at midnight, having fun with the creeps and peepers over there. Trying not to get kidnapped this week, made a second if you do.

Don't start roving banks and striking out against fascist pigs. Instead, I don't know, maybe just keep on suckin'. I don't know, maybe just keep on suckin'. I don't know, maybe just keep on suckin'. I don't know, maybe just keep on suckin'. I don't know, maybe just keep on suckin'. I don't know, maybe just keep on suckin'.

I don't know, maybe just keep on suckin'. I don't know, maybe just keep on suckin'. I don't know, maybe just keep on suckin'. I don't know, maybe just keep on suckin'. We need to, we need to go up on high and go up up to the mountain and grab from the fascist fucking pigs and take their money and just hand it out to the poor. We need to drive cool cars and wear fucking leather jackets with fluffy kind of, I don't know,

like, like, is it like a pilot type? I don't know, but it's like a cool looking shit here and have chains and silk shirts and bell-bottom jeans and platform fucking shoes with goldfish and the motherfucking heels. and platform fuckers juice with goldfish in the motherfucking heels!