Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 242 - Jameson Whiskey and Cannibalism

Starting point is 00:00:00 Whiskey. Today's suck is soaked in whiskey, mostly in Jamison, some Irish whiskey, a great drink for some fun times, kicking back, and enjoying the taste of one of the best exports the Emerald Isle has to offer. Also a popular drink in my experience for people to torture with by buying you shot after shot after shot until you're spinning and puking the parking lot. Talking about Jamison will lead us obviously into talking about cannibalism. Yep. John Jameson, the founder of Jameson, was originally a lawyer from Aloa in Scotland before he founded his distillery in Dublin in 1780. In 1805, he was joined by his son John Jameson Jr., who took over the family business.

Starting point is 00:00:39 For the next 41 years, Jr. built up the business before handing it over to his son John Jameson in the third in 1851. They were killing it. By the turn of the 19th century, Jameson's distilleries were the second largest producer in Ireland of whiskey, and one of the largest in the world producing a million gallons annually. Dublin at the time was the center of world whiskey production. It was the second most popular spirit in the world after rum and internationally, Jameson had by 1805 became the world's number

Starting point is 00:01:05 one whiskey. And then almost a century later at the end of the 19th century, the Jameson name would get tarnished a wee bit when reports came back from the Congo that John's great grandson, James S. Jameson, Jimmy James, paid to watch a young girl be killed and eaten cannibalism. Not a great PR moment, hard to build a successful ad campaign around some cannibalism What the hell happened in the Congo? We'll look into that today and before we look into that We'll look into how whiskey came about and how alcohol itself came about and today's

Starting point is 00:01:34 How did I spend so much time drinking alcohol all these years, but no so very little about it? Why the hell are we also talking about cannibalism addition of time suck? This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to time suck By the hell, we also talking about cannibalism, addition of time-seq. Happy Monday. And happy May meet, Saks. Holy shit. Is it already May? Uh, you know, working on five months of separation between the present and the twilight zone

Starting point is 00:02:08 that was 2020 now. Welcome back to the Cult of the Curious. Recorded this in advance of the QAnon suck releasing and can only imagine the handful of furious emails. YouTube slander and one star ratings I have to look forward to online. I'm sure many will think I've gone to the left while I still find myself in the middle. Uh, I like some stuff on the right, like some stuff on the left, and hate some stuff on both sides.

Starting point is 00:02:28 I like to allocate my politics and not just order some meal that comes with a bunch of side dishes. I didn't want. I'm Dan Cummins, a Suckmaster, whiskey lover, cannibalism opponent, not advocate, Lucifina, deep tissue massager, and you are listening to TimeSuck. Hail Nimrod, Lucifino, triple M of Bojangles, the God, the Tempestress, the Bard, and the Canaan mascot of the Suppers. Recording per usual in the sucked dungeon out of Cordillane, Idaho, which feels like

Starting point is 00:02:52 the pollen capital of the world right now. Why do blooming trees have to hurt so much Mother Nature? Why are you trying to kill me with beauty? My voice sounds a little different right now. It's because no matter how much allergy medicine I take, no matter how much water I drink, I just can't overcome the massive amounts of pollen pumping off the trees right now. I got a bunch of stand-up comedy dates, book for the fall, and for all of next year, which I'm excited about, looking forward to, nervous as hell about finding out how, if I remember or not, how to do stand-up

Starting point is 00:03:22 again. I'm hoping so. I feel like it's going to come back. I'm going to have some dates posted on Dancomas.tv soon for right now. You can go to the following venues, websites for August through October dates, going to call the new stand up tour, the symphony of insanity has to do with some material I was working on before COVID changed the world and just feels right. Just like everything's a little more insane than it used to be. I'll be in Cleveland, August 13th and 14th. I'll be in San Antonio, August 19th, laugh out loud comedy club. I'll be at the secret group in Houston, August 20th, the Texas theater in Dallas, August 21st, helium in Portland, August 26th and 28th. I'll be at the punchline in Philadelphia,

Starting point is 00:04:00 September 9th and 11th. I'll be at the funny bone of Columbus, September 24th and 11th. I'll be the funny one in Columbus, September 24th, 25th, Cobbs in San Francisco, October 8th and 9th. Spoken comedy club, October 15th to the 17th, and the Kansas City improv, October 22nd to the 23rd. So I hope to see some of you there. Super different kind of item now in the store at BadMagicMarch.com, a rug, a bad magic rug, two feet by three feet, three feet by five feet, or four feet by six feet. Each color represents a piece of each of the podcasts, time suck, scared to death, is

Starting point is 00:04:30 we dump, and the secret suck, all represented by individual stripes. You can step into spring by stepping on some suck, by stepping on some bad magic. Should have a May bad magic production's charity to announce next month, just a bit early, recording wise, to have that information today, and that's it for announcements. Now, let's get fucked up. Or at least learn about humans, started getting fucked up.

Starting point is 00:04:55 And the fucked up cannibalism incident that for a while tarnished the Jameson whiskey name. The Space Lizards have spoken. Our Patreon supporters who vote on and choose two topics a month picked a weird one this month. The dark history of James and whiskey. And it's a great choice. However, it is the topic with the least amount of information out there about it thus far out of any topic we looked into other than my pop award of course.

Starting point is 00:05:23 There just are not a lot of details about an heir to the Jamesy, Jameson whiskey fortune pain for an African girl to be eaten in the 19th century. The details that are out there, we will share them today. And it is dark and interesting for sure. But if we only shared them, this would be about a 10 minute episode. So to lead up to this incident, we're gonna learn a little bit about the Jameson whiskey family, right how they came to be, how they became the top selling brand of Irish

Starting point is 00:05:48 whiskey in the world by far. In 2017, James installed some 6.6 million cases of Irish whiskey. The second best selling brand, Telemore do sold 1.2 million cases, just a third of what James installed. And that doesn't even account for Jameson's cultural cloud to many consumers around the globe. Jameson is Irish whiskey and Irish whiskey is Jameson. Jameson's Irish whiskey is thought of as an essential part of Ireland's history and culture.

Starting point is 00:06:13 Right up there with the poetry of W.B. Yeats. Probably yeats, probably messing that up. Should I go to pronunciation? I felt confident when I was reading it. Now I'm like, God, I don't know. James Haney, the prose of James Joyce, nailed that one. For sure, songs of you to Bono, boom, nailed that. And Enia, never forget Enia. I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I said I was, I said I was, I said I said I was, I said I was, I said I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said I said I was, I said I said I was, I said I was, I said I was, I said for India. Sail away somewhere. What's that Celtic elf up to these days? Probably meditating under a waterfall right now.

Starting point is 00:06:48 Right, teaching some elves or fairies yoga. Probably just gotten engaged to a centaur. Back to Irish whiskey. In Gaelic whiskey translates to water of life. I have bought a lot of James and whiskey myself over the years. It's not that expensive, and I think it's pretty smooth. Good bang for the buck. If you're not going gonna drink it neat, no ice and no mixers, don't waste your money on far more expensive brands. You know, if you're making a whiskey ginger, my most frequently drank drink, you're probably not gonna taste much difference between like McCallan 18,

Starting point is 00:07:16 which costs around 250 bucks a handle and Jamison, which costs around 50 bucks a handle. So save your money, meat sex. I'll tell you what, meat the founder of Jamison. Learn a little about Irish whiskey's beginnings, and before diving into Jamison history, we'll learn a lot about how alcohol just came to be, just in general.

Starting point is 00:07:32 I think that's the most interesting part of this suck. We're gonna learn how whiskey evolved out of beer, what is whiskey, what different kinds are out there, what's the difference between like scotch and bourbon, for example. What do fermentation and distillation have to do with hard liquor production? So much to learn. Let's get started.

Starting point is 00:07:49 How the hell did we humans figure out just how to get drunk in the first place? Well, the history of alcohol is tied to the history of bread. Fire was the first great invention when it came to cooking the second, a fungus, that played a very, very large role in the development of human civilization.

Starting point is 00:08:07 Yeast! Leaven that bread! Make it rise up! Yeast that juice into some wine. So where does yeast come from? Well, get ready to gag. You're not going to like where this is going. Just don't shoot the messenger.

Starting point is 00:08:21 Like humans of today, early humans used to get a lot of yeast infections. I'm sure you've either had one or heard of it. Most commonly meat sacks get them in their vaginas or next to or behind their ball sacks and yeast fungi found naturally on the skin would start growing out of their, you know, out of control and yeast infection, you know, cause the infection. Archaeologists and anthropologists surmise that early humans liked the smell for some reason and taste the use of the yeast from these infections and they would rub the oily, gritty, special sauce a yeast infection makes

Starting point is 00:08:52 on like bread, on some fruit to give it a little extra kick to a little zest on it as utterly disturbing as that sounds. And then sometimes wherever they rubbed it on, like some apples would get wet and rot a bit and the yeast would grow further and as a byproduct of feeding on its little fungus self, the yeast infection would convert the fruits, sucrose sugar into a very crude form of alcohol. And that early alcohol would get humans drunk. Still, we'll do the trick. Today, in a lot of prisons, guys will make what they call twine, thought to come from taint wine,

Starting point is 00:09:23 by putting some graves behind or off to the sides of their balls when they have a yeast infection and let it ferment a bit before adding into a bottle of soggy bread to give it that beer flavor. Then you mix that with some water and a cell often with gag again, toilet water. Similarly, a lot of female inmates will brew

Starting point is 00:09:40 what's known as little hilariously, I think, as put cider, more commonly known as hooch, by sticking apple slices into the front butts and letting it stew in a yeast infection, then pulling out that infection goop and soaking that in some grape juice, you know? Showbiz, delish! Sorry, extra apologies,

Starting point is 00:09:58 if you just threw up all of your stuff. I went off the rails a bit after bringing up yeast. The history of bread and alcohol are tied not to yeast infections, but they are tied to yeast. And I hope just like with like with like with my dog the bounty hunter hacker lie, I hope some of you're like, are you fucking kidding me? The first alcohol came from yeast infections. It's so gross. It is. It is. Maybe you could make it though. You should try. There are many types of yeast. They're all fungi. And these little fungi yeast are all over the place.

Starting point is 00:10:27 You have a China, on and around your balls, for sure, but also in other places that are not as gross. Various types of yeast are naturally found floating in the air on just about every surface on earth, including every open piece of cheese in your fridge, where if you don't eat it fast enough, right? They're gonna multiply, they're gonna form those little cream colored colony spots you see on cheese sometimes.

Starting point is 00:10:46 Yummy, sweet little yeasts also found on grape skins. And said grapes can start to ferment at the temperature and moisture around them is right. If they've been left sitting around long enough, and that is probably how the first wine's got going, right? Some ancient meat sack, which is trying to make some fruit juice, or maybe they're just really, really hungry. And there was willing to eat some overly ripe, mushed up grapes, right? They ancient meat sack, which is trying to make some fruit juice. Or maybe they're just really, really hungry. And they were just willing to eat some overly ripe, mushed up grapes, right? They found a pile of grapes, some of the grape finds on the ground.

Starting point is 00:11:10 They're so hungry. It had been raining, and it just been sitting there fermenting, and then they tasted a little bit funky. And then they just kept eating them, even though they tasted funky, because they were so hungry, and then they started to feel a little bit different. I had to get a little buzzed, and they liked it. Later, they started to feel a little bit different. I had to get a little buzzed and they liked it. Later they wanted to get buzzed again and they fucked around with some ripe grapes until they had that feeling again. Then they started experimenting further found out that they mushed those grapes just right left or juice out long enough from the right conditions right. You could consistently get that buzzed.

Starting point is 00:11:38 During too much, your head would spin, maybe throw up, maybe feel like shit the next day. For a little less, maybe you don't get sick, but maybe your judgment's a little bit different. Maybe you fuck somebody that you always knew you were attracted to, but you couldn't stand the personality. Hey, I'll lose a fena. I'm gonna drink a little more than that. Maybe you fuck somebody's personality you don't like and we're never attracted to, but suddenly they're looking great. Easy lose to fena. What are you doing right now? Maybe you drink enough to finally decide that you know what? Fuck Chad, right? And you bottom in the head with your club.

Starting point is 00:12:07 You've always wanted to, but you used to be afraid of him beating your ass, but now you suddenly feel especially courageous. That's alcohol, baby. Helping people have a great time and make terrible decisions since whoever first drank that funky tasting fermented grape juice. All thanks to yeast.

Starting point is 00:12:24 Yeasts are great at making bread, beer, and wine because they are good at harvesting energy from sugar without oxygen, a process called fermentation. When harvesting energy, yeast produces two pretty great waste byproducts. They shit carbon dioxide, which puts the lift in leaven bread and the bubbles in beer, and they piss alcohol called ethanol,

Starting point is 00:12:44 which adds interesting but well-known properties to wine and beer, but evaporates in the bread and the oven, which is why going to town at a bunch of loaths might still give you that carb-fueled beer gut, but it won't actually fuck you up. Fermentation is a strange and magical controlled form of spoilage. During fermentation, the yeast feeding on wheat,

Starting point is 00:13:03 barley, grapes, whatever will produce many different enticing flavors not originally found in the wheat, barley or grapes, as anyone can attest who's been intoxicated by the smell of fresh yeast spread, or appreciated how glass of fine wine differs from some grape juice. Why grapes, wheat, and barley? Why did those foods specifically become alcohol? Well, those were just commonly grown and harvested ancient foods. They contained the kind of carbs that yeast liked to eat.

Starting point is 00:13:31 The right sugars. They were foods left out in the right conditions for fermentation to occur. Same with rice in the east, same with potatoes in many parts of the world. You can ferment all sorts of stuff and make alcohol. The ancient Mesopotamians and Samarians, the world's earliest civilizations, they were brewing early forms of beer and wine as early as 10,000 BCE. In Babylonia, clay tablets with a recipe for beer were found from approximately the year 6,000 BCE, first documented evidence of beer making.

Starting point is 00:13:59 And can you guess what that recipe relied on? Yes, butthole yeast. Kidding. That is horrific, butthole yeast. Kidding. That is horrific, but I wish it was true. No, it was not it from a butthole yeast infection. Now this recipe utilized underbaked bread made from germinated barley. Being underbaked, the bread would serve as a live yeast culture.

Starting point is 00:14:19 And when the bread would be cut into small pieces and placed in a large jug with water, malt would be produced. The pre-annoculated malt would left out, would ferment to give you some beer. Terrible beer, but still beer. The shit sounds about his taste, he's that taint wine nonsense. So that prison hooch, gibber jabber. I made up earlier, but he got the job done.

Starting point is 00:14:37 Then, some ancient micro brewing hipsters figured out how to flavor that shit up. They'd stir in some dates, herbs, honey for taste. What they didn't include was hops. That wouldn't be included until centuries later. Hops, which all modern beer has, hops gives beer, it's beer flavor, hops of the flowers or cones from a plant called humulus lupulus. Hops also helped keep beer fresh for longer. They help beer retain its head of foam, a key component of beers is at Roman flavor. And of course, they add that, you know, hoppy kind of bitterness to beer. Other cultures around the world, not familiar with grapes or barley,

Starting point is 00:15:11 we're finding other food to ferment and into some happy juice, as I mentioned earlier. The ancient China rice was used to make rice beer and pre-Columbian civilizations in the Americas, corn was used instead of barley. And probably at first without knowing it, it was important in a refined part of the secret recipe, ancient South American peoples added their own enzyme to break down corn starch by first chewing the corn before placing it into a fermentation tank.

Starting point is 00:15:35 And this saliva from their mouths served as the enzyme in the process of starch conversion to sugar and gave their beer a vastly improved and distinct flavor. Beautiful little accidents occurring here and there over many, many centuries has given us so many great things. In rural areas of Russia, Kovas was made by adding pieces of stale black bread to malt, flour, sugar, and water and allowing that mixture to ferment. It resulted in some kind of fucked up Russian black bread,

Starting point is 00:16:03 gruel beer stuff that likely tasted somewhere between rotten assholes and Togem, but was drank anyway because, well, Russians may be the toughest people on earth with the most fucket inside of them. So how did all of this lead to whiskey? Unlike beer and wine, spirits, hard liquor requires a second step after fermentation, distillation. Fermentation can happen by accident. Wild yeast can easily stumble upon some rotted fruit and ferment those sugars into alcohol.

Starting point is 00:16:29 But distilling that requires intention. Whiskey is a dark distilled spirit made from a variety of grains, including barley, corn, rye, and wheat. It's distilled throughout the world, most popularly in Ireland, Scotland, United States, Canada, and Japan. There are various styles of whiskey in some countries have regulations that stipulate how it's produced, whether it's Irish whiskey, Scotch, bourbon, or Canadian whiskey. It's one of the most popular liquors in the world, used in numerous cocktail recipes

Starting point is 00:16:58 or simply served straight. Have it neat or on the rocks. Surprisingly, at least to me, drinkers in India consume the most whiskey, though the country's own whiskey is rarely exported. They just import a lot of whiskey. Whiskey was originally used as a medicine, both as an internal anesthetic and as a external antibiotic. It's a relatively recent discovery in terms of distilling.

Starting point is 00:17:18 Meat sacks have been distilling things for a long, long time, beginning around 2000 BCE, when an early form of distillation was found in ancient Mesopotamia, a modern day equivalent is an area covering parts of Iraq and Syria, where it was used to produce perfumes and aromatics. Around 100 CE, humans first recorded information about the distilling process. Distilling has a strange history. We meet SACS made it to distilling through alchemy

Starting point is 00:17:42 that mystical precursor to modern chemical engineering at strange art for ancient scientists, mistook science for magic and tried to do shit like turn lead into gold. There have been prior evidence of crudely distilled alcoholic beverages liqueurs made from things like rice and mares milk and Asia as far back as 800 BCE. Firmanted mares milk. Mmm, kumas! We were introduced to that fine Mongolian cocktail in the Genghis Khan's milk. Mm, cummets. We were introduced to that fine Mongolian cocktail in the Genghis Khan's suck. Still have not tried it. Still think it sounds disgusting.

Starting point is 00:18:10 Evidence of distilling knowledge, soon found its way to ancient Greece, prior to the first century CE, writings in the fourth century CE attributed the development of a three armed pot still to a woman's side in ancient sources as Maria the Jewish, the first documented Western alchemist.

Starting point is 00:18:26 She connected two hollow vessels with a tube. Liquid would have been heated in the first vessel to create aromatic vapors in a roundish container, cooled then diverted through a tube to a second vessel or receiver, whereas it cooled it would return to liquid form. No one as far as we know was applying that process to fermented grapes or barley, though, to get extra fucked up yet. A century's later in the eight century CE in Arabic, Arabic alchemist Abu Musa Jabeer, Abin Hayin, designed the Olympic pot still, contraption that allowed for the effect of distillation of alcohol, but still no one was playing drinking games and thrown

Starting point is 00:19:02 back whiskey shots quite yet. Jabere was not interested in getting fucked up. He was driven by science, by medicine, even when fellow alchemist Muhammad Abin Zakaria Razi began refining the practice of distilling alcohol in the ninth century. It still wasn't to get drunk. Distilled alcohol was being used primarily for ritual and medicine. The first documented use of distilled alcohol in Europe where meat sacks would first start drinking whiskey comes from Italy in the 12th century,

Starting point is 00:19:29 from the medical school of Salerno, the Italians, maybe the first to use the distilled liquor to get fucked up. And Salerno in the 12th century, the journey of hard liquor begins in the West, the earliest instructions for the distilling of alcohol from wine that we know of, appear in a short introduction to the study of medicine written around 1150 by a not well-known master of Salerno. But the distilling of mass producing hardleckers still wouldn't come about for hundreds of years.

Starting point is 00:19:56 The first published book devoted to the subject, the virtuous art of distilling penned by the unfortunately named Heronimus Brunsquig, wouldn't show up for another 350 years, published in 1500, and it still treats distilled alcohol like medicine. But a few historical references illustrate that aquavite, an early euphemistic nickname for booze, Latin for water of life, was being imbibed and enjoyed for at least a century by this point. So we've been enjoying some form of hard liquor, at least in the West for recreational use for around 600 years.

Starting point is 00:20:28 Chats, chats, chats! A hard liquor not just beer, wine, and Mike's hard lemonade had found a recreational audience. Did I mention that Mike's hard lemonade was first made before whiskey, back in 1413 by Sissy Bridges von Lightweight? It wasn't. Before moving to the origin of whiskey, specifically a little more about the alcohol distillation process.

Starting point is 00:20:49 Distillation is the process by which a liquid again is heated to create a vapor, then condensed back into a liquid again. The basic concept of distilling alcohol is pretty simple. Making a harder alcohol from a lower alcohol base. Going back to yeast, as yeast eats up sugars to make beer, wine, etc., they create alcohol and CO2 as waste products. We went over that again. We did not go over the fact that the more alcohol and CO2 they create, the less sugar there is for them to feed on. And at a certain point, somewhere between 14 to 18% alcohol by volume, the alcohol levels become toxic for the yeast. So to create anything substantially hard, to get a much higher ABV level, you have to

Starting point is 00:21:28 physically separate alcohol from water using evaporation and condensation, right? AKA distilling. Because alcohol has a lower boiling point than water, 173 degrees Fahrenheit versus 212 degrees Fahrenheit, distillers can evaporate the alcohol mostly by itself, collective vapors into a tube, then use colder temperatures to force the alcohol to condense back into liquid form. And without getting too alcohol nerdy, you can then distill the alcohol again, a double distillation to remove a few impurities that made it through the first distillation, then sometimes yet again, triple distilled to get out still more impurities.

Starting point is 00:22:04 A triple distillation is strongly associated with Irish whiskey and a smoother flavor. Jamison's whiskey is triple distilled. A triple distillation helps to concentrate not only the alcohol, but also produces lighter, more fruity flavors. The heavier, more water soluble compounds are left behind at every stage. And there's a lot more nuance to it than that. A lot more. Ask any whiskey nerd and then clear your schedule

Starting point is 00:22:26 so you have time for their answer. There's a whole craft to distilling, just like there's a craft to brewing beer. I could go in even more depth, but I don't think anyone has come into time so I have to learn how to actually make Irish whiskey. I'm not qualified to lay that out if they were. I can just barely wrap my head around the basics

Starting point is 00:22:42 and explain them. I think we've all gotten the general just now of how liquor is made. It doesn't come from yeast infections, but it does come from yeast, and then from heating and alcoholic liquid into a vapor, then cooling that vapor into a stronger, more pure form of alcohol than when you started.

Starting point is 00:22:58 We'll go over a bit more when I lay out different types of whiskey here soon. Right now, let's back up to almost a thousand years ago to bring the distillation process to Ireland. The stealing techniques were brought to Ireland and Scotland sometime between 111300 CE by monks. Of course they were. Those sad motherfuckers had taken vows of essentially unhappiness where they weren't supposed to fuck or trying to crew wealth or tell dirty jokes or have too much fun or sometimes even speak. More than anyone else, I'm guessing they really wanted to get drunk, take the edge off.

Starting point is 00:23:31 Speculating here, but I feel like I'm not entirely wrong. Since wine was not easy to combine Ireland and Scotland at the time, not a lot of vineyards back then, but there was plenty of barley. Barley beer was made locally, and then when distillation came to the area, that was distilled into whiskey. The early distillation process was rough. The whiskey was not allowed to age, which meant it tasted way worse than today's versions.

Starting point is 00:23:54 And it was super potent. Really put some hair in your chest. Over time, they figured out how to smooth it out. You know, they wanted to drink something that did not make you squint your eyes real hard after you threw a swig back and then bang on the table and say something like holy fuck that burns! Mother Mary Joseph and sweet baby Jesus burns all the way down on my balls!

Starting point is 00:24:13 Now the first written record of whiskey appears in the Irish annals of clock Mcnoice. A clomic noise. There we go. This is where to sell fucked up. There we go. This is where to sell fucked up. C L O N M A C N O I S E. Comic noise. Clemic noise. It's simple. You got a comic noise. This book covered events in Ireland from pre history to 1408, where it was written that the head of a clan died after taking a surface, excessive amount of aqua Vitae at Christmas.

Starting point is 00:24:45 Claire is dad went hard on Christmas one year and took himself out. You ain't telling me how to drink? I can handle it. I can just drink a hot pot or a bottle and have it get into foam myself. Give me a year. Glug, glug, dead. Whiskey would be produced pretty much exclusively

Starting point is 00:25:03 by monks at monasteries until around 1541, so he had to know a monk. To really get your hand on some whiskey, then the production of whiskey would shift to the general public after King Henry VIII of England dissolved the monasteries, making a large number of monks independent, they were unemployed, and they were looking for new ways

Starting point is 00:25:19 to make a living, and a lot of those, you know, pious monks became well to do whiskey makers. I love that transition. Whiskey started off in church, monks, dicking around, trying to figure out how to make their beer stronger so they could forget about being monks. So in these former monks, Tathor trade to the sons they can now openly have into others, like some whiskey, 11 folks living in bush mills with a license to distill Irish whiskey dating all the way back to

Starting point is 00:25:43 1608, the old bush mills distillery in northern Ireland is the oldest licensed whiskey distillery in the world. After the English malt tax of 1725 greatly increased the price of alcohol to help pave for a war against France, most of Scotland's distillation went underground. Scotch whiskey was hidden altars in coffins, noise, and in any available space to avoid government, supervision, and more importantly taxes. Scottish distillers operating out of homemade stils, took to distilling whiskey at night when the darkness hid the smoke from the stils, and for that reason, the drink became known

Starting point is 00:26:17 as moonshine. Fun fact. At one point, it was estimated that over half of Scotland's whiskey output was illegal. A lot of moonshine. Lots of lower year inhibition sex use being brewed under the cover of darkness. Hailers to Fina. Cross the Atlantic whiskey was now being used as currency during the American Revolution. George Washington, right?

Starting point is 00:26:36 America's first president actually operated a large distillery at Mount Vernon in 1799. George Washington's distillery making some rye whiskey was producing nearly 11,000 gallons. It was one of the largest whiskey distilleries in America. Drugs, drugs, drugs. America loves drugs. I'll call this for sure, a drug. Given the distances and primitive transportation network of colonial America, many farmers

Starting point is 00:26:58 often found it easier and more profitable to convert corn to whiskey and transport it to the market in that form. Still a lot of corn being used in American whiskey. Corn being used in bourbon. Corn, you know, you know, you kind of defines bourbon. We'll explain that in a bit. In 1823, the UK passed the X-I's Act, allowing for legal distillation for a very small fee now.

Starting point is 00:27:18 And that put a practical end to large scale production of Scottish moonshine. They're making legal Scototch now. Fast forward ahead to the prohibition error in the US from 19, 20 to 1933, all alcohol sales banned in the US. The federal government made an exemption for whiskey prescribed by a doctor though, and sold through licensed pharmacies. And during that time, the Walgreens pharmacy chain grew from 20 retail stores to almost 400. So Walgreens became a massive chain, largely in parts due to whiskey. Love it. So how is a lot of this whiskey being made? Again, whiskey starts out just the same as beer. It starts out, you know, as beer with a mash of grains, commonly barley, rye, or wheat.

Starting point is 00:27:58 Some, as in the case of barley, may also be melted. Malted barley is just barley that has been allowed to germinate by soaking the grain in water. This prepares the starches to be converted into fermentable sugars. The grains are mixed with water and yeast for fermentation, then the beer is run through is still either a pot still or continuous column still once twice, thrice times a lady. Sometimes more than three times. The still is what turns what, what you know would be bear into whiskey Almost all whiskey is then barrel aged for at least a few years to be classified as whiskey in America It has to be barreled for at least two years and that aging gives whiskey. It's distinct golden color as well as its wood and oak flavors

Starting point is 00:28:37 It picks up flavors and colors from wood The longer whiskey is aged typically the darker it gets the sharp alcohol taste mellows out a little over time as well. So you're not just drinking shit, the taste like gasoline. Once matured, whiskey is diluted with some water and bottled at a minimum of 40 degrees ABB, right? Alcohol, man, I had that, I had that written above. I said it earlier, whatever I said earlier, what ABV, it's alcohol, alcohol by volume, I believe. Some barrel strength whiskey that they're not diluted may reach 140 proof, which is 70% alcohol,

Starting point is 00:29:09 which is typically not smooth. Anything above 100 proof is flammable, right? Because if anything above 100 proof is anything above 50% alcohol, 140 proof isn't just gonna put hair on your chest. It's gonna put it on, then it's gonna burn it off. Then it's gonna slap you the fuck out of whatever chair you're trying to sit in because you can't stand up anymore.

Starting point is 00:29:29 Now that we know a bit about whiskey's history, before we go into the Jameson's journey with whiskey, let's learn a bit about what kind of different whiskey's are out there. Let's become whiskey kind of sewers, or at least just not be whiskey idiots. Now, perhaps you've been to a bar, the proudly displays big whiskey wall, right?

Starting point is 00:29:46 Dozens, maybe even hundreds of bottles stacked up, a glowing collage of magic amber and brown elixirs. And like me, you pick the one that looks the coolest to you. Or has the best name because you can't remember what's supposed to be good. Other than the same three whiskeys, you've been drinking for most of your life. Maybe you ask the bartender, will you recommend? And then he or she goes on and on about how well this one, or that one is aged and what notes it has,

Starting point is 00:30:09 and what it was barrel aged in, and maybe it's a wine cask or some shit, and how a few drops of water really bring out its full body flavor with light vanilla notes and cherry accents or whatever. And you say, that sounds great. Haven't tried that one. You have no fucking idea what they're talking about.

Starting point is 00:30:25 And then you know, before ever having a drink, no matter what it's gonna actually taste like, you're gonna sip it, then you can look them right in the eye and say some version of, oh yeah, yeah. No, I see that. The vanilla cherry. Mm-hmm. The things that you said, I can, I see it too,

Starting point is 00:30:39 cause I'm not stupid. You know, you just repeat it back to them. So the strangers and think you're an idiot. And you say thanks, you walk away having no clue how you're drinking is any different than any other whiskey. Other than it seems to be the most expensive. Whiskey can be, I think, a little bit intimidating. So where does one start?

Starting point is 00:30:55 They're whiskey journey. Well, let me help you. Start your whiskey journey with a bottle of old crow. Pay attention. You can get a fifth, 750 milliliters of old crow for nine bucks if you go to the right store. And there's roughly 17 shots of the whiskey equivalent of lawnmower gasoline and that son of a bitch. Old crow bourbon is best drink in a ditch. And you're probably going to end up blacking out and passing out a ditch. It's best to just start there. When it comes to the proper food pairing, old crow seems

Starting point is 00:31:21 to go down best with some slim-gim pre prepronined cheese sticks, or freezer burnt ham and cheese hot pockets. Nothing too fresh. Anything without lots of preservatives or hint of spoilage really throws off the flavor profile of old crow. A gas station, bean and cheese burritos have been sitting on an unwashed grill for at least two weeks, also tastes very good with some old crow. Old crow is aged for a minimum of two minutes. And barrels that raccoon skunks and possums have been shitting in for years. Most old crow is barrelled with at least one

Starting point is 00:31:50 scroll carcass. That's what sometimes gives it that kind of a hint of decay in his flavor profile. Its initial taste has been described as like being punched in the mouth by a young Mike Tyson. If he had just taken his fist out of the old woman from throw mama from the train's butthole. Its finish has been described as somewhere between less than smooth and I can't see anything. Oh God, my eyes don't work. Why don't my eyes work? I'm scared mama. Why am I surrounded by demons? The best way to drink old crow is to dump the contents of the entire bottle out on the ground

Starting point is 00:32:21 before you've sipped any of it. Probably you're a dumpster or an alley, then throw the bottle as far as you can, cry for a bit and reevaluate your entire life. Do not drink old crow. Not even if you're underage and desperate just to get drunk, no matter what the peer pressure is, just wait and have a few more dollars,

Starting point is 00:32:37 like three or four more dollars. Donate a bit more plasma, respect yourself. Let's really learn about some whiskey's now. We're never gonna get an old-crosponsor for the show now. There are only three main differences between whiskeys. Where they're made, what they're made from, and most importantly, what they taste like. Ideally, they do not taste like

Starting point is 00:32:57 Mike Tyson's Knuckles covered in old butthole. Depending on whom you ask, there are between five and seven different main regions where whisky is distilled. The five regional whiskeys, always included, are Scotch whiskey, Irish whiskey, Kentucky bourbon, Canadian whiskey, and can you guess the fifth? Tennessee whiskey. Japanese whiskey has also gotten really popular, so we'll mention that.

Starting point is 00:33:19 New Zealand, Australia, there are other countries that make whiskey, but thus far traditionally Scotland, Ireland, America, Japan, and the big players. I'm sorry, in Canada. Let's start with the US. There are tons of different kinds of whiskey from right here in the States, roughly, but not always divided up by the region they come from. Whiskey is made in the US, uses at least, or whiskey, excuse me, that is made in the US, that uses at least 51% corn and is aged in first-use

Starting point is 00:33:45 charred white oak barrels, then bottled between 80 and 160 proof. It's bourbon. Bourbon is America's most prominent contribution to the world of whiskey. Bourbon accounts for two thirds of US distilled spirit export and is a tidy billion dollar industry. For a whiskey to be properly labeled as bourbon, most purist will tell you it has to come from Kentucky. Others will simply say it has to be American. The technical truth is that it can come from anywhere in America, but it must come from America to be called bourbon and America loves bourbon. Congress has officially recognized bourbon as America's native spirit, even the US Senators

Starting point is 00:34:19 chimed in declaring September as national bourbon heritage month. Bourbon by US law, in addition to having to be made in the U.S., it also has to be made up of at least 51% corn mash, aged new, charred oak barrels. All right, the other 49% usually a mixture of barley, rye, or wheat also has to be at least 80 proof, but no more than 160 proof. To be considered straight bourbon must be aged for at least two years. Other bourbons are aged for as little as three months. Straight bourbon also can't be,

Starting point is 00:34:47 can't contain, excuse me, any added colors, flavors or other spirits. Blended bourbon can contain all of that as long as it's at least 51% straight bourbon. As with all whiskeys, it's really hard to say, it tastes like because there's a lot of variety and flavor profiles between the stillers. The main characteristics, however, are sweetness and smoke.

Starting point is 00:35:07 The sweet comes from corn, sweet, sweet, high fruit toast, fructose, candy making corn sugar. The most sugary of sugary whiskey ingredients, the smoking is comes from the fact that to make bourbon, you have to pay an old man with no teeth, squinty eyes, and a rap sheet that includes time for moonshine distillation who goes by either papi, slappier skater, the chain smoke unfiltered hand-rolled cigarettes in front of a bourbon barrel for no less than eight hours a day. Of course that's not true. The smoking has come from the legally mandated aging time in charred oak barrels.

Starting point is 00:35:37 Where bourbon comes from is a fact lost to history. It was born out of a variety of immigrants to the US who found themselves, need to do something with a plentiful crop of corn in the new world. Scott's Irish, other Europeans, but mostly Scott's and Irish who settled in fame and farmed the American southeastern, the late 1700s. And early 1800s brought knowledge of distilling with them from the old countries. They started making whiskey using old world techniques and new world corn based mash. Some of these early entrepreneurs, Jacob Beam, Elijah Craig, and Evan Williams.

Starting point is 00:36:07 It's Jacob Beam of the Jim Beam family. A bourbon was probably either named for bourbon country, or I'm sorry, bourbon county Kentucky, or some say a Baptist preacher, slash American hero, first made the stuff, or bourbon street in New Orleans, the whiskey that was shipped down the Mississippi and enjoyed a boom in Nola as an alternative to French cognac. Cognac Brandi is made from the cognac region of France. And Brandi is still the spirit that can be made from a variety of fruit but mostly from grapes. His name comes from the Dutch term for burnt wine. Both Bourbon Street and Bourbon county take their names from the House of Bourbon, a European Royal House of French origin. Did you know that Justin Bieber is descended from the House of Bourbon, a European royal house of French origin. Did you know that Justin Bieber is descended from the House of Bourbon? He's not.

Starting point is 00:36:48 Did you know that Dr. Bounty Hunter is descended from the House of Bourbon? He's not either. But King hanged him in the fourth of France, so was King Louis XIV and King Louis XV. Back to Bourbon, the first advertisement for Bourbon that we know of is printed in the Western citizen newspaper in Paris, Kentucky in 1821. Did you know that Paris, Kentucky is the home of the Dan Cummins car dealership? That is true. Not related to a discussion of whiskey, but he has the same name and he's the reason I don't have Dan Cummins.com for a website. I have Dan Cummins.tv because that son of a bitch got there first and it's annoyed me for well over a decade. They sell dodges, chavis and buix, but not forts, which is unfortunate.

Starting point is 00:37:28 And they have a radio jingle that has haunted my dreams for years. Here once you have a listen to this whole gem. Now let me tell you exactly how I feel. I'd rather drive to Paris for a damn coming to the near. That Paris road spinach now you can call it what you will. They told Ann come and take a name It may be played the bill. Oh, yeah, but 90 million dollars is an awful lot to pay. It is Okay

Starting point is 00:38:02 Wow, I've not gotten that completely on my head for about 15 years. You're welcome. They currently have multiple variations of new Silverados and a lifetime powertrain warranty, if you're interested. Right there in Paris, Kentucky, the real Paris. Yeah, yeah. Two years after Bourbon first appeared in that Paris newspaper, in 1823, Dr. James C.. Yes. Of old Crow infamy,

Starting point is 00:38:26 that ditch wine, developed what is now known as sour mash of the pepper distillery. Now the Woodford Reserve distillery, that new sour mash method of recycling some yeast for the next fermentation revolutionized the way most bourbons and Tennessee whiskeys have been produced since the Samuels family to title the oldest bourbon family still going strong. T. W. Samuels, grandson of Robert Samuels, who created the secret family recipe, came along and constructed a distillery at Samuels depot Kentucky, but the family made a business out of bourbon there. In 1844, T. W. turned his father's little distillery in Deetsville, Kentucky, into a large commercial operation, it was called TW Samuels and Son Distillery. 1943 Bill Samuels senior burned a famous family recipe.

Starting point is 00:39:11 Literally burned it, you're done with it, seems extreme. Seems like he also didn't think about how valuable collectibles could be, like how valuable the original bourbon recipe for Makers Mark B. That's the Makers Mark family. Bourbon without bitterness. The company is now in the hands of his son Bill Samuel's Jr. who continues the Makers Mark family bourbon tradition today. Next up, we have Tennessee whiskey.

Starting point is 00:39:33 Tennessee whiskey is straight bourbon that's made in Tennessee with an extra filtering process. So basically, it's just bourbon. Tennessee whiskey distillers don't identify as bourbon though because fucking Tucky. They better, they better than us. I don't know if I might hope, but in this unnecessary vignette, I am now from Tennessee. Stay with me. I see your Louisville and I raise you in Nashville. Tennessee Vegas motherfucker, Mike drop. Sure you got bluegrass. But we are

Starting point is 00:39:58 the volunteer state, which sounded cooler in my head than when I said, that shit out loud. Okay, moving on. I have no idea. I tend to see whiskey distillers don't identify as bourbon. You know, what they make is bourbon since it has all the same hallmarks of bourbon. The corn, the oak, it's all there. They do have, you know, that little extra filtering process. A Lincoln County process, they call it.

Starting point is 00:40:21 It's essentially a charcoal filtering technique born out of Lincoln County Tennessee. It filters impurities and jumps starts the aging process. Some say that any tasting differences between regular bourbon, bourbon, and Tennessee whiskey are due more to differences in the mash makeup than this filtering process. Mash being the mix of grains used to make bourbon, the shit other than corn, which is mostly rye and wheat. Love rye. Love a good rye bread. Love a good rye whiskey. I'll just whiskey talk. I'll just whiskey learning. Making me want to pick up another bottle of bullet rye whiskey. Bullet, not an old family recipe.

Starting point is 00:40:53 That was first to steal the 1997. Big time Tennessee whiskey, distillers, jack Daniels, George Dickel, used very little rye in their mash, less the most bourbon distillers. Dickel whiskey. That's good stuff. Who doesn't like tossing some dickle into the back of their throat? Who doesn't like putting a little dick on their mouth?

Starting point is 00:41:09 You get it. You know I couldn't just move on from that name and rational mature fashion. A filtering process or no, that's gonna majorly affect the taste of the finished product compared to a mash that uses more rye. Let's talk about rye whiskey now more.

Starting point is 00:41:22 American rye whiskey, next on America's Whiskey list. This is whiskey that meets all the same requirements as bourbon, but with 51% Rye instead of corn, pretty simple. I had a resurgence popularity recently because it's fucking delicious. Lots of contemporary spirit critics are singing the merits of this particularly spicy bourbon cousin and legendary Rye enthusiast and madman character Don Draper.

Starting point is 00:41:43 I helped popularize a good Rai Whiskey. Before prohibition, Rai was America's boozy go-to. It was easy to produce, like we said, George Washington himself made Rai Whiskey at Mount Vernon. Rai Whiskey was historically the prevalent Whiskey in the Northeastern states, especially Pennsylvania and Maryland. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania was the center of Rai Whiskey

Starting point is 00:42:00 production in the late 1700s, early 1800s, by 1808 Allegheny County, Pennsylvania apart farmers were selling a half barrel for each man, woman, and child in the late 1700s, early 1800s, by 1808 Allegheny County, Pennsylvania Department farmers were selling a half barrel for each man, woman, and child in the country. The US was making millions of gallons of rye whiskey, and then the dark days of prohibition put it all to a stop. Womp, womp, womp. Took rye whiskey a long, long time after prohibition ended to finally recover. It's a harder sell to some than bourbon because it replaces the sweetness of corn with that fiery spice of rye.

Starting point is 00:42:27 Similar rules to bourbon, government-American rye, has to be at least 51% rye, at least 80% proof, but no more than 160% and aged in new charred oak barrels. Straight rye has to be aged for at least two years. Canadian whiskey is often referred to as rye whiskey because historically much of the content was from rye. But to be labeled Canadian rye whiskey, a spirit can contain as little as basically 0% rye. So the distinction doesn't really mean anything other than it's just whiskey made in Canada. At least according to the sources we found. Lots of famous American cocktails traditionally use rye whiskey like the Manhattan, the old

Starting point is 00:43:00 fashion, Sazarack, all classics based on rye. Sazarack, the cocktail of New Orleans, Rye Whiskey, Absent, Sugarcube, and some payshows bitters. Payshows bitters originally created by an apothecary. New Orleans, back in the early 1800s, first made as medicine. Has a bit of a liquorice she tastes to it. A liquorice medicinal taste. A lot of different kinds of alcohol, once prescribed as medicine by somebody.

Starting point is 00:43:24 Rounding off the Western Hemisphere's contribution to the world of whiskey, it's worth mentioning the considerable market of white whiskeys and so-called moonshines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what goes really well with moonshine? In Air Banjo, Jamb, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank,

Starting point is 00:43:51 tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, poor equipment is distilled and you're just drinking to get drunk and if you're just drinking to get drunk, you're probably running from your problems instead of facing them and due to the rural and poppers areas where moonshine is made, you're probably dealing with multi-generational poverty and the cyclist damn hard to break out of and moonshine helps in the short term, but makes things worse in the long term because it never solves your problems, it just keeps you facing them, which then makes them worse over time, which makes you want to drink more

Starting point is 00:44:17 to escape them, which leads to all kinds of health problems and terrible decisions which makes the likelihood that you'll solve your problem somewhere between not going to happen and how the fucking doubt it.called moonshines? Well, if it's in a store with a label and a barcode, it's actually not moonshine. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, moonshine is defined as whiskey or other strong alcoholic drinks made or sold illegally. With that definition, it may be confusing to walk into a liquor store or Costco and find booze labeled as moonshine. But that's just marketing. That's not a definition of what it actually is.

Starting point is 00:45:06 I bought some Idaho moonshine at the liquor store right down the street on East Sherman here in CDA. Not gonna lie. Not my favorite whiskey. Not very smooth. You can call a whiskey moonshine without it officially being classified as whiskey. Just like you can call a candy bar crack. It doesn't have any crack in it.

Starting point is 00:45:22 Crack candy though. That would be a money maker. Interestingly, there are literally no rules to designate a certain liquor as moonshine, except for the fact that it's made illegally, with just no tax licenses or trappings of organized liquor trade. So moonshine doesn't have to have any ingredients in common, or use of a certain barrel or just, you know, whatever. Like vodka can be made from anything for mentable, fruit, sugar, grain, even milk. Milk vodka sounds delish. Like vodka, there's no upper limit on his alcohol content. Unless you want to describe it as white whiskey on the label, you can make it any way you please.

Starting point is 00:45:57 Term moonshine has been around since the late 15th century. First used to refer, you know, to liquor. Well, that's that whole thing we talked about early with Scotland. America, particularly the Appalachian region, has a rich history of moonshining that shaped the economy culture and identity of the thirsty hamlets where it boomed and bloomed. If you ever have the opportunity to sample local under the radar, where's do so at your own risk?

Starting point is 00:46:18 I did once I tried some moonshine from back in like an arcanso, I think many years ago when I was on tour with Larry the Cable Guy, because of course that's what years ago when I was on tour with Larry the cable guy because of course That's what happened Of course a fan of Larry the cable guy was like I got some I got some moonshine Someone gave his tour manager some real backwards to sealed moonshine and gave me a shot and holy shit that burned It's like drinking fire If you're familiar with moonshine you're probably familiar with tales of people drinking it and going blind stories of of people drinking moonshine and going blind aren't totally unfounded.

Starting point is 00:46:45 They're exaggerated, but not unfounded. That's fun. Methanol, otherwise known as methyl alcohol or wood alcohol, is found in tiny amounts in good whiskey, and there can be a lot of it in cheap, not properly made whiskey. Whiskey that makes old crow look like top shelf whiskey, and it can damage the optic nerve, and it can even kill you in high concentrations. It was rare. Also there have been health risks kill you in high concentrations, but it's rare. Also, there have been health risks associated with moonshine, other health risks. Sometimes, pervayers, fashion stills out of whatever was handy, like a car radiator,

Starting point is 00:47:11 radiator, not kidding. In addition to corn or wheat base, you know, you get some notes of lead and antifreeze. Because it's not regulated at all, you can end up drinking shit that's closer to paint thinner than it is to good whiskey. Here's some interesting moonshine-related trivia. Don't confuse moonshine with bootleggers. Moonshineers make the liquor. Bootlegger smuggle it. The term bootlegger refers to the habit of hiding flasks in the boot tops around the 1880s. And then with the introduction of cars it became a came to mean anybody who smuggled booze mechanics quickly found ways to soup up engines and modify cars to hide and transport as much moonshine as possible Getting a real dukes of hazard vibe right now dukes of hazard theme song on my head right now

Starting point is 00:47:51 Which thankfully is replacing the moonshine moonshine and the let me tear you exactly here. I'll feed you uh And running from the law these whiskey runners acquired some serious driving skills and on their off days They'd race against each other a pastime that would eventually become NASCAR. How interesting is that? Bootlegging moonshine is closely linked to NASCAR. A moonshineer gave seed money for NASCAR to its founder Bill France. Now white whiskey, on the other hand, is just any whiskey that hasn't been aged.

Starting point is 00:48:20 It's essentially a raw, unfinished product on its way to become a full grown-up whiskey. But distilleries have turned to white whiskey in recent years to compete with clear alcohol like vodka, which dominates that market. White whiskey is what you're seeing most of the time in stores that call it moonshine. Sold by brands, it used to moonshine label as a gimmicky sales tactic. These whiskeys typically have a strong corn or grain flavor and aren't a smokier or mellow as their brown-aged cousins. Now onto scotch whiskey, which is, you guessed it, whiskey made in Scotland. Yep, it's also a whiskey made with water, melted barley, plus other whole grains, yeast, caramel coloring, and nothing else.

Starting point is 00:48:58 Then be the rules. Commercial distilleries in Scotland began introducing whiskey made from wheat and rye in the late 18th century. It's age at least three years in oak casks and bottled to 80 proof or higher. Any age statement on a bottle of Scotch whiskey must reflect the age of the youngest whiskey used to produce that product. A whiskey with an age statement is known as a guaranteed age whiskey. A whiskey without an age statement is known as a no age statement, NAS whiskey.

Starting point is 00:49:23 The only guarantee being that all the whiskey contained in that bottle is at least three years old. Another important distinction with Scotch whiskey is that the Scotch traditionally, traditionally, omit the E and their spelling of whiskey. That's why Sun-Hibisbee whiskey with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee

Starting point is 00:49:38 with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee with the E, Sun-Hibisbee without an age statement is known as a no-age statement. NAS whiskey, the only guarantee being that all the whiskey contained in that bottle is at least three years old. Another important distinction with Scotch whiskey is an old science. First written record of

Starting point is 00:49:49 it goes back to 1494 from some of those distilled lovin drunk monks. This was that record to fria John Cora by order of the king to make a corvite. Eight bowls of moat. Exchequer rolls of Scotland. Ferris June 1494. The-checker rolls were records of royal income in expenditure and the quote records eight bowls of malt given to Friar John Cor to make a curvete over the previous year. Ball was the rounded seed capsule of certain plants, by the way. Scotch whiskey, that's fun to say, grew very popular in that region, it was a favorite

Starting point is 00:50:25 beverage of King James, the fourth of Scotland. There are five major regions of Scotland that produce the stuff, all of which have distinct flavors. There are two basic types of scotch whiskey from which old blends are made. That feels like it's not bad. I just pulled out of my ass. I feel like out of my shitty accents, that wasn't the worst. Single malt scotch must have been distilled in a single distillery using a pot, still distillation process made from a mash of balked barley, single grain scotch whiskey, it's scotch whiskey distilled at a single distillery, but in addition to water and malted barley, it may involve whole grains of other malteter, unmalted cereals.

Starting point is 00:50:58 So much, so much malt talk. Makes me want to eat a whopper. It does like whoppers, I do. All of these distilleries produce differently flavored scotch whiskeys, but there are a few commonalities. Scotch flavored profile is a little more challenging than that of a typical bourbon, but it could also be said to be more complex, especially when you start cataloging differences between single and blended malls, single casks and grains. They get all fancy with their, you know, limited things they can do with it. Overall, you can expect a lot of smokiness and something the whiskey nerds call

Starting point is 00:51:26 peatiness. You want some serious peatiness, you get the bottle of lagovolin. Single malt scotch or art warlocked Logan Keith gave me as a gift. The preferred whiskey of Ron Swanson. Ron Swanson from Parks and Rec. That shit has some serious flavor for real. That's real smoky. I love it, but not for everyone.

Starting point is 00:51:45 It is the only thing I have ever drank where Lindsay does not want to be anywhere near me when I drink it. Just a smell alone, like it truly discusses her. The odor is so pungent, she can smell me drinking it from about 30 feet away. Pete is a mossy accumulation of compressed, decaying plant material. Yum! And Pete is a word to describe the wide range of flavors. Its combustion provides, depending on how or where it harvests it.

Starting point is 00:52:09 So PD is sort of an aromatic smokey, herbal, dark, or even nutty flavor. PD is a plant that goes all over Scotland, and it's a big part of the distilling process. Granes are dried, over smoldering, peat fires, so the smoke gets in the whiskey and contributes a very earthy flavor. Okay, two more. Japanese whiskey. And then we finally focus this episode on Jamison with Irish whiskey. Japanese whiskey is just a catch-all term for any whiskey made in Japan. Makes sense. What started as novelty is now some of the best whiskey in the world. In the 1920s, a businessman named Shinjiro Tori started a whiskey distillery in Yamazaki, a suburb of Kyoto

Starting point is 00:52:46 that had incredibly pure water. He had already been importing Western liquor and he later created a brand called Akadama Port Wine based on Portuguese wine which made him a successful merchant but he wasn't satisfied and he turned his sights to whiskey. Understanding his ingredients and staff had to be the very best for a satisfactory product. Tori hired Masataka, excuse me, Masataka Takasura as his distillery executive.

Starting point is 00:53:11 And Takasura had lived and trained in Scotland. And he brought his knowledge of Scotch distilling with him to Japan. The first Westerners to taste Japanese whiskey were soldiers of the American Expeditionary Force Siberia who took shore leave in Hacquodate in September 1918. Those soldiers were over there meddling a bit in that Russian civil war that led to the end of the Russian Zars in the beginning of communism over there trying to stop the Bolsheviks from taking over, but they, you know, not enough troops were sent over to make a difference. But this isn't about the Bolsheviks. It's about whiskey. What is Japanese whiskey? Well, there's a growing range of

Starting point is 00:53:42 options that's safe to basically think of Japanese whiskey as just scotch. That just happens to be made in Japan instead of Scotland. Same ingredients. Centauri and Nika are the brands you're most likely to see here in the States, both produce blended and single malt varieties as well as blended malt whiskey just like their Scottish counterparts.

Starting point is 00:53:58 So Japanese whiskey is just scotch. Last is today's focus. Irish whiskey, AKA whiskey made in Sweden I mean Nigeria I mean Ireland I would love it for some reason it was made in Sweden or Nigeria no one had a good explanation even though this stuff is made very very close to Scotland the rules government's production are pretty different they're a little more relaxed if it's aged for three years and it's made in Ireland then

Starting point is 00:54:21 dab-nabbit it's Irish whiskey That's pretty much it in terms of rules. Irish whiskey enjoyed an extreme popularity in the US until prohibition ruined the market, effectively closed many Irish decilaries. The Irish war of independence fought between 1919 to 1921 and then the subsequent Irish Civil War fought between 1922 and 1923 to not help. And then there was a trade war with Britain that cut off whiskey exports to Britain in all commonwealth countries that also did not help. And then there was a trade war with Britain that cut off whiskey exports to Britain and all commonwealth countries that also did not help. Irish whiskey's biggest market trade was disrupted

Starting point is 00:54:50 all over the place shutting down more Irish distilleries and distributors. Just a few just a handful were still open by 1960. In 1966, a couple of distilleries pulled their resources into becoming the Irish distillers, figuring it would be better to sink together than go out of business one by one. And Irish distillers distilled Jameson. At that time, only about 500,000 cases were being produced down from 12 million cases in 1900. Since

Starting point is 00:55:16 the 1980s, there's been a resurgence in Irish whiskey. It's now one of the fastest growing spirits in the world. Okay. Now that we have all this whiskey knowledge in our in our minds. Now let's meet the founder of Jamison whiskey, Terry Juniper Tweedle. Kitty, John Jamison. Terry Juniper Tweedle sounds like someone who opened a candy soda and wooden toy shop back in around 1910. Right. Some with a hand of our mustache who wears leaderhosen, even though he's not German or in Germany. He just thinks it's fun. He just thinks it's kooky. Because Jameson is the Irish whiskey for many, it's hard to swallow that John Jameson was actually done, done, done, a Scotsman.

Starting point is 00:55:53 Even worse, he was also a Presbyterian, not Catholic. So rough start. And before I really introduced Jameson to establish who the Jameson clan is and head into the cannibalism expedition, this seems like the least disruptive place in today's suck for a sponsor break. Thank you for listening. Now let's really meet the Jameson founder. Jameson was born in Aloha, Scotland. I always want to say Aloha. I've really paused that word Aloha, Scotland.

Starting point is 00:56:17 You've heard of it. It's where Hawaii and Scotland touch. No, Aloha, Scotland on October 5, 1740 into a seafaring family. He'd later serve as Sheriff Clerk for the County of, oh boy, I tried this, I got the pronunciation guide. This is a high level word. Clack, Clackmonen Shia. Clackmonen Shia.

Starting point is 00:56:39 I should've said it in Scottish accent, then I couldn't know. He was a Sheriff Clerk for the Countyio Cacamana Shire. Cena Mitu, meaning without fear, or without fear of the unknown in Latin, was the Jameson Family Model awarded for their bravery in battling pirates in the 1500s. Pretty badass family model. Which my family had a motto, like a cool motto. I don't, we don't have one.

Starting point is 00:57:01 If my dad got to pick the family motto, it would probably be something like, don't ask me where I've been. I won't have to add one more corpse to the body pile or something. You know, I don't know, JK. A long-running gag, if you knew. If my mom got to pick our family motto, or if it was based on my mom,

Starting point is 00:57:13 accurately, it would be worry about everything and living constant fear. Not JK, actually. Oh, mom. Queen of the worry warts. On 1768, John Jameson married into whiskey. He married Margaret Hague. Eldest daughter of John Hague and his wife Margaret Stein, and

Starting point is 00:57:27 the couple had 16 children, yikes. Though only 10 survived to adulthood because fuck 1768. And Margaret was early whiskey royalty. Most historians described the Stein's, Margaret was descended from as a great whiskey dynasty, responsible for a major portion of the total output of Scotch whiskey in the 18th century The signs not only revolutionized both the Scottish and Irish whiskey industries But they were without a doubt some of the greatest Scottish industrialists of their time The distilleries founded by the signs were the largest manufacturing undertaken of any kind to emerge during the first decade of the industrial

Starting point is 00:58:01 Revolution in Scotland and Ireland and they got to start much earlier the earliest reference of the Industrial Revolution in Scotland and Ireland. And they got to start much earlier, the earliest reference to the Stines. In Clackmanen, there we go. And the Clackmanen area dates back to around 1200. The family was one of privilege. They owned farmlanded, Craten, and also at Green Yards on the Far Bank of the River Fourth. At some point historians think maybe after the Kinnit Ponds Abbey was dissolved, the Stines extended their land holdings to include the former Abbey, where they learned the

Starting point is 00:58:28 art of distilling from the Friars. Oh yeah, they did. Come on, Friars shit faced. Show me that whiskey. Andrew Steinborn in 1672 first established a commercial distillery at Kinnit Pans in the 1720s. By 1733, Kinnit Pans was the largest distillery in Scotland at that point. It was run by Andrew's son, John Stein senior.

Starting point is 00:58:46 John senior soon said his sights in the Irish market. John senior found it the now famous bow or bow, excuse me, street distillery in 1780. In the same year, he purchased another Dublin distillery, Meribone Lane, both had become vast manufacturing plants, even by today's standards. Stein's weren't content to use the same old distilling methods. They wanted to bring whiskey manufacturing

Starting point is 00:59:05 to a scale never before seen in Scotland. To that end, they were open to any new technology. They thought might benefit the stilling. And one of those pieces of technology ended up being something of their own invention, something called the continuous still. Many say they still don't get credit for this still to this day.

Starting point is 00:59:20 An extract from the Philosophical magazine published in 1798 stated the improvements that may have taken place in the common distillery business in Scotland within these few years are such as Cannot Fail to excite the wonder of men of science. In 1828, Robert Stein, one of the John Jr.'s or John Sr.'s children, patented a continuous still-that-fed wash through a series of interconnected pots. Piston strokes were used to vaporize the wash and feed it into a horizontal cylinder, which was divided into a series of compartments using cloth. Stein still offered improved fuel efficiency compared with the traditional pot still, it was the first

Starting point is 00:59:54 continuous still to be employed commercially in Scotland. However, it is distilled and not allowed for siphoning off of the pungent fusel oils. The spirit produced was not highly purified and the machine needed to be stopped frequently for cleaning. But they were still producing whiskey on a never-before-seen scale. Was it still more whiskey came more problems? Mostly keeping these vast plants supplied with the raw materials required. This led to massive changes to farming in the surrounding areas. The whole of central Scotland's infrastructure had to be reexamined.

Starting point is 01:00:20 The Stine's commissioned huge engineering projects from building roads to canals to tramways. They were literally reshaping the world around them to make more whiskey. The Stein's were ambitious and that ambition would get them in a couple of tight spots, sometimes with custom agents, sometimes with London gin merchants or a variety of other actors they had to cut across to get their product out there. Stein's frequently attempted to avoid regulations. For example, they often distilled on the Sabbath

Starting point is 01:00:46 when X-Size or custom's officers were not on duty. When X-Size officers attempted to use hydrometers to measure the spirit strength accurately, the signs would accuse the X-Size officers of trespass, have them escorted from the premises, that's certainly one way to stop an inspection. I wish you could do that with inspectors here in the States. Hey, Mr. Collins, I'm Dale Hahn with Workman's Comp here in Idaho to do a little unannounced

Starting point is 01:01:07 inspection of your studio. Mr. Hahn, this is private property. You can take your inspection to fuck out of this building before I shoot you for trespassing. Go on out, get! I don't think that would work. The Stines were regarded as royalty when it came to Decylline, and they tried to keep their grip on the whiskey throne and control the whiskey market by controlling the destroyer. The other distillers around them. The Steins would bankroll the hags and Jamesons to enable them to flourish in the whiskey business, but flourish under their thumbs, you know, flourish by giving them high interest loans.

Starting point is 01:01:35 When William Hague of the Segi Decilyery went into liquidation, it was revealed he owed John Stein, Jr. 42,000 pounds equivalent to about 8 million pounds today. Stines controlled numerous non-family distilleries in Scotland through complex agreements involving supplying credit in capital. They made a fortune off of loans. And if anyone they were bankrolling stepped out of line, the Stines could be as ruthless as the most celebrated Mofiosos. Whiskey exports to England stagnated in the early 19th century.

Starting point is 01:02:00 The Stines and by now their financially independent cousins, Higgs, threw around lots of bribe money, paid smaller distillers, not to compete with them when selling to England. They bought up and dismantled smaller struggling distilleries. The Stines and Higgs became pretty unpopular with other Scottish distillers, and they didn't give a fuck because they were rich. They were the Starbucks or Amazon

Starting point is 01:02:21 or Walmart or the Scottish whiskey trade, squashing the competition, however they could to control the marketplace. They of the Scottish whiskey trade squashing the competition. However, they could to control the marketplace. They control the Scottish whiskey industry until the mid-19th century hard to trace the Stein's involvement in distilling after the closure of John Stein's Sudbury distillery in 1856. Now to the Jameson family. After John Jameson was married to Margaret Hague, both a Hague and a Stein, John moved

Starting point is 01:02:43 with his family to Ireland. They are John joined the convivial lodge number two, two of the Dublin freemasins on June 24th, 1774. So Illuminati, the reptilians deemed him a whiskey baron. Uh, no, a lot of people think that John founded the famous Jameson Bow Street distillery. He started as an employee of John Stein Jr. Margaret's brother. He was soon appointed general manager of one of one of several distilleries in Dublin

Starting point is 01:03:08 Smithfield district. John Jameson later declared that he had erected the distillery in 1805 when he appears to have become sole proprietor, though this would seem in reality to have been the date of expansion and modernization, not the founding. Carol Quinn company Archivist at Irish Distillers Rights in 1805. John Jameson was joined by his son, John Jameson II, who took over the family business that year. And for the next 41 years, he drove the business forward before handing over to his son, John Jameson III in 1851.

Starting point is 01:03:35 In 1901, the company was formally incorporated as John Jameson and son's limited. And as part of a prospectus issue the following year published a brief history of the firm, noting a distillery was an existence in Bow Street in the year 1780 Around 1780 John Stein Jr. required a distillery in Merrill Bourne Lane Merrill Bone Lane and it appears that John Jameson son William married Stein's daughter Isabella Going to take over the going on to take over the company which was trading under the name William Jameson and company by 1822 Good old cousin marriage and now there are two Jamison distilleries. Jamison, first is Jamison.

Starting point is 01:04:07 And the two Jamison distilleries were major trading rivals, especially as they were two of what we're often referred to as the big four of Irish whiskey. John Jamison and son, George Rowan company, John Power and son, and William Jamison and company. John Jamison operated Bow Street to the highest standards, bolstering the reputation of Dublin distilleries, who were thought of as the makers of the finest pure pot still whiskey. Jameson purchased only the finest grain, sometimes paying farmers in advance to grow cereals

Starting point is 01:04:32 for him. He also followed all stages of the production process with great attention to detail. He also seemed to have been a pretty good boss. Jameson's employees received above average wages. He started the tradition of giving his workers nicknames when one of his Cooper's William McCann posed to admire himself as reflection in a window. He was from then on entered into company records as gorgeous Gus McCann. Jameson himself ended up with the nickname glorious John. A nickname given to him by a close circle of friends and family that would attend his magnificent Dublin parties. Am I related to this guy? Right? I'm Scott Irish. I love nicknames.

Starting point is 01:05:06 Just ask the artist formerly known as MicroPine, Reverend Dr. Joe Horscock Johnson-Pasley. We love a good nickname here. When the whiskey was ready to be put away for aging, John Jameson ordered the excavation of sellers on the distillery site to provide cool, moist conditions, optimal for whiskey aging. He also allowed a termane in casks for much longer

Starting point is 01:05:23 than many of his competitors to ensure the highest quality spirit. He wasn't making that old crow. His legendary status would exist even during his lifetime, which John Bolchard by commissioning the artist Henry Reibun to paint portraits of himself and his wife Margaret. Today, these portraits hang in the National Gallery of Ireland Dublin. Jameson died in December 3rd, 1823, by which time the Jamesons were firmly established as the country's leading whiskey family The first family of Irish whiskey in the lost distilleries of Ireland, Brian Townsend declares that John Jameson was arguably the single main driving force behind the success of the Irish whiskey industry in the 19th century and his

Starting point is 01:05:58 industry was a behemoth distillery chronicler Alfred Bernard visited Boastreet during 1886 and noted, the distillery covers upwards of five acres of ground. The warehouse is belonging to the distillery. Usually, it contains about 25,000 casks of whiskey. 300 men are employed on the works, and it is a notable fact that the operatives are never turned away except from his conduct.

Starting point is 01:06:20 We notice many hail and hearty old men, one old veteran was over 86 years of age. The annual output of the famous distillery is about one million gallons. Million gallons a year. There's a lot of hangovers. John Jameson and son would later, much later, lose their independence with the formation of the Irish distillers group in 1966. And then two years after that, that's when Jameson was first sold in bottled form. I was surprised by that. Rather than by the cask, the publicans in bondus, all the money made back in the early days of Jamison was not money made through slick marketing campaigns

Starting point is 01:06:53 and selling it by the bottle known was going anywhere and buying a bottle of Jamison because that didn't exist. It was sold by the cask. It was sold, you know, like you had to go to the bar to get it basically. It was sold to publicans and bonders. Bonders were people who took the distilled whiskey and blended it and often aged it further

Starting point is 01:07:09 and bottled it and sold it to publicans or pub owners and to grocers and to other shop owners since big distilleries weren't really known as brands yet. The Bo street distillery was the second last, second last to close in Dublin, finally falling in 1971, five years before the doors shut on its great historical rival, the John's Lane Distillery of James Power and Sun. It's 1975. All James and Whiskey has been produced at Irish Distillers Vast, Combined Pot Still and

Starting point is 01:07:35 Graene Distillery in County Cork. Though much of the Boast Street Distillery site has now been redeveloped, it remains home to the hugely popular James and Dist'Acileri Bo's Street visitor experience. So you can go there and then use your few years back in 2018 with a launch of Jameson 18-year-old Cask Strength whiskey whiskey maturation return to Dublin. John Jameson himself would surely have been pleased with this development. Just as he would be happy to see Dublin beginning to regain some of its traditional status as a center of whiskey making excellence. It's coming back. Okay. Enough random whiskey details.

Starting point is 01:08:06 Now we've gotten kind of whiskey nerdy here. Did you almost forget this talk was about cannibalism? I did. I did not think when the Spaces picked this topic, I would use it as an excuse to learn a lot about spirits. And drinking whiskey a long time didn't really know shit about it other than bourbon was made in Duggy and Scotch was made in Scotland. Now I know that not all bourbon is even made in D. Hale Nimrodden, thank you for the whiskey knowledge. Now let's head to 1866,

Starting point is 01:08:30 right? The darkest chapter in Jameson's history, big pivot here. Let's explore allegations that one of John Jameson's direct descendants, his great grandson, seems to have commissioned some cannibalism while on an African expedition, which is not a normal thing to do. In the late 19th century in Europe, it was fashionable for rich young men who didn't have a lot of responsibility to tag along on adventures like expeditions because you know, why not? You weren't actually running the operations of some big whiskey distillery. You had a lot of money. It'd buy your way into some very interesting vacations of sorts. That's some cool shit to talk to your rich friends about. Must have been fun to be able to live that life. And that's the life James Jameson was living in 1886 when he bought his way onto the Amin Pasha relief expedition. James Jameson. What a bummer of a name. Same

Starting point is 01:09:14 first and last name. Oh, Jimmy James Jameson. This expedition he went on. The one he died on was one of the last major European expeditions into the interior of Africa in the 19th century, who was launched supposedly to save a man known as the mean Pasha, who was the governor of some territory that Britain and Egypt basically co-governed. It's a little complicated. A place called Equatoria, what is now South Sudan,

Starting point is 01:09:36 in what is now South Sudan. Some local Sufi Muslims did not want Egypt and through Egypt Britain to rule them, and there was a revolt. And an expedition was launched to save a mean Pasha before Rebels killed him, and also to maybe see if some kind of agreement could be reached that would allow England and Egypt to keep a foothold in that part of Central Africa. It's actually a very, very complicated and pretty dry, but that's the gist. The man who led the expedition, James said, went on, was Henry Morton Stanley.

Starting point is 01:10:01 Henry Morton Stanley, his original name was John Rollins. His Congolese name was Bula Matari, breaker of rocks, noise. Mr. Rock breaker was born on January 28th, 1841, in Denby Denby Shear, now making it up. Denby Denby Shear Wales, sounds like it made a place, but it is not, I checked. And he died May 10th, 1904 in London.

Starting point is 01:10:25 And between this, that sounds like one of the sing-songy bullshit the things I would come up with. And between those handful of decades was quite the life, including an expedition that went very wrong. Let's look at Henry starting with his birth, a little quick overview of Henry. Henry's mother Elizabeth Perry was 18 years old when Henry was born.

Starting point is 01:10:43 She abandoned him as a very young baby, cut off all communication. So fun, sweet mom. Stanley never knew his dad, his dad died within a few weeks of his birth. The stigma of his legitimacy weighed on him all his life. His birth certificate even said bastard, which was common at the time, but still had to sting.

Starting point is 01:10:58 Makes me take a game of thrones, John Snow. He was brought up by his maternal grandfather, Moses Perry, a butcher, and then Moses would die when Henry John was five He then stayed with families of cousins and nieces for a little time here a little time there before eventually being sent to the Saint Asuf Union workhouse for the poor It sounds like a fucking terrible place and it was the overcrowding the lack of supervision resulted in him being frequently abused by older boys And the headmaster of the workhouse, the headmaster sexually abused Henry John.

Starting point is 01:11:26 So holy shit. It's poor guy's childhood. It started to feel like a Steph Cox curvy fodder, like the upbringing of a serial killer. Roland's immigrated to the US in 1859 at the age of 18 where he met Henry Hope Stanley, a wealthy trader. He asked Henry Hope Stanley if he needed any help with his business in the typical British style. Apparently literally asking him, do you need a boy, say? Very creepy question to ask people now. But I guess it was not creepy the time.

Starting point is 01:11:51 Can you imagine approaching some business owner when you're a teenager? Just ask him, do you need a boy, say? Do you need a girl, say? And then having them answer, yes, yes, I do need a boy. Boy would do nicely. Been wanting myself a boy for quite some time. Yik. John Henry didn't know it, but Henry hoped Stanley was childless and a long wish for his son, so their professional relationship quickly became like a close, more familial one. And out of admiration, John took Stanley's name, which is pretty adorable.

Starting point is 01:12:20 He then served in the American Civil War on the side of the Confederacy, and then during the Battle of Shiloh in 1862 was taken prisoner by the North and then joined the Union Army. And then soon fell ill and was discharged. So what a journey this dude had bounced around Britain for 18 years, makes it to America then serves for both the South and the North in the Civil War. He then joined the US Navy where it became a record keeper on board the USS Minnesota, which led him into freelance journalism because why not? This guy was a say-yes, kind of guy guy, you know, just, sure, I'll try it. Then he'd adventure his way into a whole mess of expeditions, including to the Ottoman Empire, where he was briefly taken prisoner. That was

Starting point is 01:12:54 not fun, I'm sure, then to Spain, where he wrote about the revolution taking place there. He made his first expedition to Africa in 1871 to Zanzibar. He was sent to find the Scottish missionary David Livingstone who had completely lost contact with the outside world for six years. Only one of Livingstone's 44 letter dispatches made it to Zanzibar. One surviving letter to Horus Waller was made public in 2010 and it says, I am terribly knocked up, but this is for your own eye only. Doubtful, I will live to see you again. But he did live, and Henry Morton Stanley was the one who found him.

Starting point is 01:13:28 He found Livingstone in the town of Ujiji on the shores of Lake Big Word again, Tanganika on November 10th, 1871, greeting him with the now very famous words, Dr. Livingstone, I presume, noise. Henry Morton Stanley is that guy, the guy who said, Dr. Livingstone, I presume.

Starting point is 01:13:46 A lot of people found that, quote, pretty funny. His first off, Livingstone was the only other white person for hundreds of miles. So of course it was him. Also people laughed at Henry Morton Stanley's attempt to appear dignified by making a formal greeting after traveling to the bush for a week after week after week. After finding Dr. Livingstone, Henry Morton Stanley, a return to England wrote a book about his experiences, how I found Livingstone travels, adventures and discoveries in Central Africa and that made him a huge celebrity. And then in the 1880s, Stanley worked for King Leopold II, leading numerous expeditions

Starting point is 01:14:17 for the profiteering Belgian monarch. Stanley was contracted to map out some trade routes for Leopold, then he quickly realized that Leopold basically wanted him to carve out an entire nation. When Leopold admitted that he did have that in mind, he said very, you know, made it very clear saying it is a question of creating a new state as big as possible and of running it. Stanley would go on to help carve up, you know, Africa on behalf of colonial powers and historians have not looked kindly on him for his role in the colonization of Africa.

Starting point is 01:14:43 Stanley manipulated a lot of tribes and defined each other. He was also pretty ruthless in his use of modern weaponry against natives while opening a route to the upper Congo for trade. We can do a whole suck on Stanley sometime. In 1886, Stanley led the Amin Pasha relief expedition. I mentioned to rescue Amin Pasha, right, the governor of Equatoria and Southern Sudan, held hostage by locals. Sadly, he would rescue Pasha, but he would not get him out of Africa.

Starting point is 01:15:06 He would Pasha would die in Africa killed by rebels a couple years later. James S. Jameson would tag along on this ill-fated expedition. He would become part of a real, real column of the expedition. Sometimes better known as the lost column. And who was James S. Jameson again? Jim, James was the son of Andrew Jameson and Margaret Cochran, making him the great grandson of Jameson Whiskey's founder John Jameson as a super wealthy heir to a whiskey empire. Jameson lived a good life. He was also as much as I tried to paint him as a, you know, nothing to do. Trusts funder. He was a talented artist,

Starting point is 01:15:39 known as one of the great naturalist artists and sketchers of the late 19th century's age of exploration. James S was famed in his day for sketches of butterflies and birds made during travels to southern Africa, Borneo, in the Rocky Mountains of North America, which is something you do you fall into if you just have, you know, a lot of money. You don't have to ever really work. It would be some of these sketches that he would make on the, some of the sketches that he would make on this trip into Africa that would ruin his reputation forever. The trip seemed like a good idea at first. He was an experienced traveler ready to face danger. In the force of the Congo Basin, he hoped he would be going on a fantastic expedition that would have people all over Europe talking about him.

Starting point is 01:16:16 And that would happen, but not for the reasons he'd hoped. The expedition ended up taking James Jameson to a village along a slave and ivory trading trail that also happened to be where rumors of cannibalism were floating around. The village was called at Lucondo, Cassango, and the Democratic Republic of Congo. Around April of 1888, Jameson and his crew had been abandoned by Stanley, cut a drift from the main column. They were basically lost after the deaths of numerous expedition team members to a few skirmishes with locals and disease, the shrinking group of Europeans had become desperate guests at the mercy of their guide. Tip to tip, an infamous independent Arab warlord and slave slash ivory trader in his private

Starting point is 01:16:52 army. Tip to tip is an interesting historical figure. He was a black African Arab who sold reportedly tens of thousands of fellow Africans in slavery over the course of a long life. Did a lot of ivory trading too. There was nothing this guy wouldn't sell. Elephants, people, you know, kids, he didn't care what you did with anything he sold either.

Starting point is 01:17:09 Over 73 years, he worked, yeah, as a slave trader, ivory trader, explorer, governor, who helped rules Anzabar for several sultans on East Africa's coast, and he led numerous expeditions in the Central Africa. Tip tips, real name was Hamad bin Muhammad bin Jumbo bin Rajab el Majuribi, which is a mouthful. Thank God he was given a much shorter nickname. Tip tip was born in 1837 into his

Starting point is 01:17:32 Danzabar merchant dynasty at a time when trading routes from Zandabar were just beginning to reach into other areas, including present day republic of Zayir. It was during the course of his third expedition that he gained the nickname of Tip Tip, representation of the sound of firearms. And he befriended the British missionary and explored David Livingstone. In 1870, as the head of a 4,000 man caravan, Tip Tip returned to the Congo and over the following decade built a formidable trading empire. In the process, Tip Tip established control. Sometimes it's like, it's like, Tip-tip. It's like this slight in the middle. Tip-tip. It's just easier for me to say tip-tip.

Starting point is 01:18:10 But just if you're like, ah, I'm actually a tip-tip expert. And it's actually a tip-tip. I know, but it makes it sound even weirder if I try and do that. He established control over a number of African chiefs who agreed to serve as his vassals, as well as a number of rival Zanzibari traders. He was killing it.

Starting point is 01:18:25 In October of 1876, Tip Tip first met Henry Morton Stanley who persuaded him to escort his expedition down the Congo River. Stanley and the Upper Congo found that a trading post of what was named Stanley Falls, a site which Arab traders also wanted to use for commercial purposes. Years later, in early 1877, Stanley arrived in Zanzibar and proposed that tip tip now be made governor of the Stanley Falls district in the Congo free state and tip tip accepted. The same time he agreed to man the expedition, which Stanley had been commissioned to organize for the purpose of rescuing Amin Pasha.

Starting point is 01:18:57 Then by April of 1888, Jamison, tip tip, you know, and tip tip had broken away from Stanley in his main party. For the reasons that we're not entirely known, or not entirely known, maybe because of cannibalism, instead, Tip Tip is leading Jamison in his dwindling sick party now down an old slavery trail to possibly rub shoulders with some cannibals. There's not a lot of reliable documentation.

Starting point is 01:19:20 And if there's any date and consistencies, really tried to clean them up, but around this expedition, it's like every source has a slightly different timeline. It's very frustrating that way for this part of the information. Yeah, just not very good documentation about this. But the expedition seems to have unraveled once the two groups were separated in the jungles of Africa. By April 1888, the only other European

Starting point is 01:19:45 officer in addition to Jimmy James and the Ragtag rear column was British army major Edmund Musgrave Bartolot. But by this point, for some reason went batchet crazy. He had recently kicked a campboy to death, killed another with 300 lashes from a rhino hide bullwhip, and then he will shortly be shot dead by a local strongman after physically attacking the man's wife too many days Marching to the jungle had maybe broken him James and meanwhile also struggling with his mental health These motherfuckers are going full apocalypse, you know now the horror the horror

Starting point is 01:20:15 Jimmy James and his men are becoming increasingly interested in stories of the areas cannibals Jameson starts asking tip-tip about these stories and travelers tales of slaves being eaten. And Tip Tip was the wrong man to bring up, you know, a curiosity and some real dark shit to if you weren't very interested in actually encountering that dark shit. He was like John Goodman's character in the big Lebowski, right? Walter. Remember Walter can get you a toe. Are they going to get?

Starting point is 01:20:41 You want a toe? I can get your toe. Believe it. They're ways, dude. You don't want to know about a believe it. Yeah, but Walter, hell, I can get you to by three o'clock to say afternoon with nail polish. I'm gonna be on chair. Walter. He was that guy. He was that guy that couldn't get you a toe.

Starting point is 01:20:56 Jimmy James spoke up to him about rumors of cannibalism. Tip tip was like, I can get you a cannibal. I can find you some cannibals. You want somebody to eat him? I can get you somebody to eat him. He said he would give James James a hands-on experience. So Tip-Tip tells James that for six handkerchiefs, he could buy a local child and watch cannibals kill

Starting point is 01:21:10 and eat her. What a very odd transaction. I'd like to buy a child to eat. Okay, we can do that, but it's going to cost you. I'll pay any price. Good because it is very expensive. Name it and I will pay it. Six hanker chiefs. And I picked your Jimmy James is thinking, this guy finds his ears? I thought he's going

Starting point is 01:21:29 to ask for like 5,000 pounds or something. He wants six hanker chiefs. Jameson paid him. And that's kind of a weird deal. The six hanker chiefs thing is inconsistent as the sources are. That detail remains consistent. Everybody seems to agree. Oh yeah, no, it was six hanker chiefs. And when the story gets out later, the bad press around it allegedly helps put an end to European expeditions into Africa. It would also pit Henry Morton Stanley in his reputation against the Jamison family and their reputation becoming one of the great international scandals of the late Victorian era.

Starting point is 01:21:59 Jameson paid his six handkerchiefs through Tip Tip and Tip Tip informed the village chief that the necessary arrangements have been made Assad for on jamesons uh you know Syrian interpreter would later give his account of the whole incident in an affidavit he would report a man returned a few minutes afterward with a 10 year old girl tip tip and the chiefs order the girl to be taken to the native huts jameson himself salim masandi franney jamesant, presented him by Tip Tip and many others followed. The ill-fated little girl was presented to some cannibals in front of the Europeans.

Starting point is 01:22:31 This is a present from a white man who desires to see her eaten, said the man who brought the young girl. Well, what the fuck? Then Jamison got out of the sketchbook, as one does, in a situation like this, to document the grizzly scene that followed. Maybe Jamison would later tell his wife that he actually painted the image from memory, not while it was happening, which is kind of like a weird defensive thing to say.

Starting point is 01:22:52 I didn't know. I was a pain. What do you think of a monster? Painting this? While she's being eaten and killed. No, I did not do that. I did, you know, I did like, I happened a little later. I did a little bit later.

Starting point is 01:23:04 He stressed also to his wife that he was trying to make the best of a bad situation, that he didn't intend for this to happen. He wrote as if, basically, he had made a joke, tipped it, tipped it, taken him seriously, and then now this just happened and he couldn't stop it, which does not seem to be true. This claim seems to be bullshit based on other accounts of how it went down. According to many of the accounts given by Krumann, the girl did not struggle, but stoically accepted her fate, which is so crazy knowing that she was going to be killed. And she quietly watched her fellow tribesmen as they sharpen their knives.

Starting point is 01:23:34 As Jimmy James got out his water colors. What the fuck? She apparently stayed quiet as they tied her to a tree. And then one of the men stabbed her twice in the belly. According to Feran's account, she did not scream, but knew what would happen, looking to the right and left for help. When stabbed, she fell dead.

Starting point is 01:23:50 The natives cut pieces from her body. What the fuck? Jameson drew pictures of all this. Jameson created a total of six different images of the event in watercolor sketches. What kind of sociopath? Just call me watercolors, a girl being killed in Eden. What if he was happy with how it turned out, call me watercolors a girl being killed in Eden? What if he was happy with how it turned out like like his watercolors?

Starting point is 01:24:14 I'm just not sure I got her eyes right. I mean she was quiet, but there was a there was an anguish in her eyes that you really Did it kind of just be there to see it? I just I wish I wouldn't got it. What a pity The first sketch shows the girl tied to a tree with people around her sharpening their knives He imagined going out like that, my God. Next one shows her being stabbed in her belly, blood gushing from her wounds, running down her small body. Third sketch shows the tribesmen dissecting her body parts with a large knife, like she's a deer.

Starting point is 01:24:36 The last three images show men carrying off different body parts as they prepared the meat to be eaten. You can find those sketches on Imager, if you're more really curious like myself. Link in the show notes that you can download from the Time Suck app. We attach notes with sources, links to all the episodes there. You can just Google it to get to that Imager gallery. As well, according to some of the accounts,

Starting point is 01:24:53 Jameson apparently showed these sketches to the chief for approval. Then I get it right. I think this is accurate. This would lead many to think that Jameson's claim that the entire event started as a joke and he was shocked and horrified to be less and truthful. James Jameson would not survive his journey to tell his side of the story in any great detail.

Starting point is 01:25:10 He would not be able to ever defend himself against the rumors. He fell ill with the fever just a few weeks or a few months later. Again, the timeline sketching all this died in Stanley Falls. Most accounts seem to agree August 3rd, 1888. He was just about to turn 32 years old. On his deathbed, he wrote a letter to his wife who later published that account in papers, making her best effort to save his ruined reputation, allegations and counter allegations made by Stanley survivors of the expedition, the Jameson family, British colonial officials will be made via letters and editorials

Starting point is 01:25:37 in the most influential newspapers of Dublin, London, even New York. Stanley and his allies would accuse Jameson of what was regarded as amongst the most horrible crimes imaginable, buying a young slave grow for the sole purpose of having her murdered so that a cannibalistic scene might be presented for a sketchbook. It's a quote from one of the papers. The Jameson family fired back accusing Stanley and others of fabricating horror stories, attacking an honorable man who was not alive to defend himself. Stanley's reputation was not doing really well at this point either. His expedition had become a three year continent crossing trek of slaughter, savagery, and disease,

Starting point is 01:26:10 costing hundreds and hundreds of lives. The public was merciless with its criticism. Then many calling Jameson a cannibal looked like Stanley would just try and do a fine to fall guy, trying to distract from his own failures. To many others though, Jameson was a cannibal. He might as well have eaten the girl. Rum rumors floated around that he did. The Jameson's family name would be tarnished for years and years because of the sketches he drew that were published, sketches carried out of the jungle by one of the last survivors of the expedition. No one seems to deny that these were his sketches.

Starting point is 01:26:36 And it clearly details his involvement in dark rights for many who have condemned him forever. For years, the Jameson name would be synonymous, not with whiskey, but with cannibalism. What a weird little blemish, not little, huge blemish on the Jameson reputation. Strange historical moment, right? Very weird, very weird. And you know what else is weird? Our final sponsor of this episode,

Starting point is 01:27:00 so we do have one more. Time suck is brought to you. I'm very excited. I'm hoping there's gonna be a long time sponsor show by the upcoming series on A&G Dog the Bounty Hacker. Dog the Bounty Hacker follows the trials and tribulations of the world's most elite hacker. MIT educated Dwayne Dog Chapman, aka Dog the Bounty Hunter, now known as Dog The Bounty Hacker. With his signature long, blonde locks, sleeveless vests, and Oakley sunglasses, Dog The Bounty

Starting point is 01:27:32 Hacker is all over the interwebs, bringing criminals down. With his all new signature phrases like, it's not the size of the dog in the fight. It's a dog's ability to manipulate numerous code languages and recognize security breaches that make the dog the best of stopping cybercrime. And, born on a mountain raised in a cave, intercepting data breach transmissions and deconstructed malware and piecing together proper IP addresses is all I crave. And also, dog is god spilled backwards and god sees all. And god will doks every last motherfuckin' in the world The things he can keep his child born hidden behind a dark wall dark with paywall. I knew I knew what the right word was I just I just messed around dog the bounty hacker

Starting point is 01:28:13 Tuesdays at 8 p.m. Central time this summer on AMG Something a good show. Yeah, I'd watch dog the bounty hacker. Uh, and that's the end of this show Outside of some takeaways and some time sucker updates, there's really not much else written about Jimmy James, Jameson's encounter with cannibalism. Just a really, really weird historical moment that understandably was a, you know, big news focus of its day, big scandal. And let's wrap up and just look back at it a few more times. Time, suck, tough, five, take away.

Starting point is 01:28:49 Number one, the quintessential Irish whiskey brand was invented by a Scotsman. James Jameson. Uh, John Jameson. I had James on the brain still. John Jameson married Margaret Hague, the eldest daughter of John Hague in Margaret Stein, who both came from her own whiskey dynasties. Or dynasties, if you prefer, together they would make a brand of whiskey that would eventually become by far the best selling Irish whiskey in the world with 2019 sales passing 8 million

Starting point is 01:29:15 cases. Each case is three gallons. That's a lot of whiskey. Number two, James S. Jameson. Jimmy James seems to have paid to have a 10 year old Congolese slave girl be murdered and eaten in front of him while in the Congo on an expedition. And that stained the Jameson brand name for years as you would think. Not sure what brand name a cannibalism association would not stain.

Starting point is 01:29:36 Maybe, maybe, uh, maybe Thames, I don't know, fights heartburn fast, even when you're digesting a kid. I'll stop. Number three, alcohol does not come from yeast infections, but it does come from yeast. And I just wanted to bring that up to put that imagery back in your head. Number four, there are a lot of different kinds of whiskey

Starting point is 01:29:53 with their own regulations about what they have to be made from and how long they have to be stored, where they're made. There's Irish whiskey, Scotch whiskey, Japanese whiskey, American bourbon, rye whiskey, blended whiskey, single malt, the list goes on and on. To find out what you like, experts recommend trying whiskey is just a little tiny bit water down. Just put a few drops of water in there to get the best representation of the real flavor in aroma, or if you really don't care what the taste like and you just want to get drunk,

Starting point is 01:30:17 just grab yourself some old crow and find that ditch to enjoy it. Number five, new info, John Jameson, in addition to being the great grandfather of Jim James, was also the great grandfather of inventor, uh, Goliathmo Marconi. Goliathmo Marconi. We met him in the Titanic, it's sinking and the conspiracies that surrounded episode. Marconi was an Italian inventor, electrical engineer, and successful businessman who is credited as the inventor of radio. And was a pioneer in long stance radio transmission research and the developer of Marconi's law and a radio telegraph system. He shared the 1909 Nobel Prize in physics with Carl Ferdinand Braun in recognition of their contributions to the development of wireless telegraphy. Our telegraphy. Without him, we might not even

Starting point is 01:30:59 have podcasts to listen to today. And he never paid anyone to eat kids ever. So cheers or Coney. Time. Shock. Top five. Take away. James and whiskey and cannibalism has now been sucked a shorter episode, the normal, a different episode, the normal. I hope he's still enjoyed it. I very much struggled to figure out how to construct this one.

Starting point is 01:31:20 There was a lot of rearranging in this episode as it went from Zach to Sophie to me. It basically was just a built torn down built torn down built torn down rebuilt and I hope it was fun. Thank you to the bad magic production team for all the help and making time suck. Queen of bad magic. Lindsey Cummins, Reverend Dr. Joe Paisley, the script keeper Zach Flannery, Sophie Fax source for seven's Bidelixer, Logan art warlock Keith, running bad magic merch.com, working on our socials along with Liz Hernandez. Thanks to all those who follow us on socials and our part of various private Facebook groups on Facebook and Discord. Next week, a return to the classic format, cult, cult, cult.

Starting point is 01:31:58 One of my favorite genres of things to look into. Favorite subject areas, perhaps. The Angels Landing Cult. Cult leaders tend to twist religions to fit their own narrative, serve their own motives. genres of things to look into. Favorite subject areas, perhaps. The angel's landing cult. Cult leaders tend to twist religions to fit their own narrative, serve their own motives. We know that. Daniel Perez, leader of a cult at angels landing, was no exception. He claimed three different angels possessed his body, making him commit horrific crimes against children, life insurance fraud, and murder. Interesting. That sounds like three really shitty angels. Sounds like he had maybe angels confused with demons

Starting point is 01:32:28 or mental illness. The Controllers lunatic possessed over his group with so strong they willingly, or willingly, even sometimes happily killed themselves. When he told them it was their time to die. Perez moved from state to state with his followers for over 20 years and planned to continue his life of crime until he either died or got caught. Thankfully he got caught the 61 year old. Now sits in the Lansing

Starting point is 01:32:48 Correctional Facility in Kansas, where he will remain for the rest of his life, sentence to life in prison for murder and rape. How many people to this guy lead? What kind of crazy messages deep reach, supposedly on behalf of God? Find out next week on another cult, cult, cult edition of Time Suck. And now let's head on over to this week's Time Sucker Updates. Updates, get your time, sucker updates. A lot of hacker updates coming in this past week. I love it. This first one is from Pro Hacker Sack, Clint Dunsworth, Clint Wrights.

Starting point is 01:33:24 Hello, Suck Master Flex. This, this first one is from ProHackerSack, Clint Dunsworth, Clint writes, hello, suck, Mac, hello, suck master flex. I just listened to the suck on anonymous and I wanted to write in to give you a little perspective on the matter of internet piracy. To start off, I just want to be clear that I in no way endorse piracy. And since you are a creator who's very living is based on what you create, I completely understand your hard stance against it. I just wanted to give you a couple things to consider that might provide you with some perspective to see that the issue is a lot greater than people outright stealing from artists such as yourself.

Starting point is 01:33:51 It can be perceived. Just as the heads up, I'm fully aware that I have a very high chance of sounding like an asshole in this email. But I'm hoping you'll take this email as one of those that respectfully challenges your stance on subject. Absolutely. I wish we got more of these. For starters, internet piracy does not equate to lost sales since there's no way to guarantee that the pirates would have bought the product if that was their only option. Some of them might have,

Starting point is 01:34:15 yeah, I think some of them probably would, but others wouldn't bother because the only reason they're interested in obtaining the product was because they had the opportunity to get it for free. And I do see you're saying there, and I do agree with the point that, yeah, like if you, let's say a million people still something, and then some artists is claiming like, well, I just lost a million sales, I do agree, that's not true. The million people who are going to buy it

Starting point is 01:34:37 or who stole it were also not going to buy it like all those, if they had no other way to get it. You know, I don't know what the percentage would be, but I imagine it would be fairly small. It might be like 5, 10, 15, 20 percent or something. Yes. There is that. Next story.

Starting point is 01:34:53 Now, I lost some of them I might have, but others wouldn't bother because you only reason. Yes. Granted, they're still getting something for free, however, it's not as though there's still money out of your wallet, since there's no guarantee that money was ever going to be in your wallet in the first place. Okay. All this to say simply that one of the reasons people pirate things is because they can't

Starting point is 01:35:06 otherwise afford it. I'm certain that there's plenty of dick nuggets out there that feel like they shouldn't have to pay for anything. And yeah, those people are assholes. And I, yes, I've known a lot of those people who absolutely could afford it, just like, I don't want to. And you know, full disclosure, I, in the past, in some instances where I'm like, well, I don't want to subscribe to this channel to get this movie.

Starting point is 01:35:24 And I can pirate, I haven't done it in years, but I was younger, I did that, in some instances where I'm like, well, I don't wanna subscribe to this channel to get this movie, and I can pirate. I haven't done it in years, but I was younger. I did that, and I could have bought it. So I was one of those assholes. Like I said, though, this matter isn't exactly black and white, though. Where things really start to get gray is when you look at another one of the big reasons

Starting point is 01:35:37 that people pirate things, the lack of ability to purchase the product legitimately. And I like this point you bring up. For example, back in September, Nintendo put out a game called Mario 3D All Stars to celebrate the 35th anniversary of Mario. Along with that game's release, the announced that it will only be available until the end of March after that. It's going to be pulled from both physical and digital stores, so there will be absolutely no way to get it. True to the word, Nintendo pulled the game

Starting point is 01:35:58 from all the digital stores, stopped restocking physical game stores with new copies. So once that last wave of physical copies got sold out, there was no longer any way to buy the game. So how is somebody, so how is someone that wants to play the game supposed to get it? Nintendo shut down all possible ways to buy the game legitimately. The only option left for someone

Starting point is 01:36:15 that wants that game is to pirate it. I highly doubt that anything I've said here will get you to change your mind on the matter. No, but I do like that. That's an angle where it's like, okay, I think that's very different than getting something that you could buy and just choosing to take it.

Starting point is 01:36:29 And you know, and I'm just, like there's an old album I have that I just don't like. Like an early one called Lower Your Goals, it was in my opinion, the recording quality is fucking terrible. And it was recorded early on. I don't sell it anymore, but I know it's out there. And I know people are, I don't know where even, but I know people have found it and still able to get it,

Starting point is 01:36:46 and I don't give a shit, whoever downloads that, whatever it legally, yeah, I don't care. So I get that. But again, I highly doubt that anything I've said here will get you to change your mind in the matter. Again, your stance is completely justified, considering what you do for a living, but hopefully it's at least giving you something to think about

Starting point is 01:37:01 and show how the matter is not as black and white, right? As you made it. Yeah. To be perfectly clear, I never pirate products because I'm fortunate enough to be blessed with a decent paying job that allows me to buy the games and movies and virtual live show tickets. I can't wait till tomorrow, the 22nd. I hope you had fun on that show that we had. I was so much fun to do that I want.

Starting point is 01:37:17 Just saying the people who do choose to pirate aren't always just assholes who refuse to pay for things they should. Spaces are creeper, dummy, and after this email probably an asshole Clint. No, I do not think you're an asshole Clint. No, I do think you made me think about a different point though. There's this thing of like, let's say you can't afford all these games you want. And then you, I think it's an interesting thing

Starting point is 01:37:36 that some people will use that justification where it's like, yeah, but I don't make enough money to get those games. So that's why I stole them. It's like, you can really take that to a lot of places. It's like, I mean, there's things all of us want, you know, we can't afford. I would love to have a house in Bali.

Starting point is 01:37:53 I think they'd be pretty sweet. You know, I want that. I want a house in Bali, but I don't have the money to get a house in Bali. But that wouldn't be justification for me to just like, if I could just somehow steal the deed to property. Like, there's this thing where, I think a lot of people confuse want and need, like, you know, just because you want something doesn't mean you need it. You know, I, there's

Starting point is 01:38:12 plenty of things I wanted over the course of my life that I didn't get because I couldn't afford it. And I didn't really try hard to get them because I didn't need them. And I think like with like artistic content, it's very different taking that than it is like food. If you're starving and you're stealing food, that's a, there's a very different justification for that. Then there is just for like, yeah, but I wanna see that. I don't have the money to buy it. But I really wanna see it.

Starting point is 01:38:33 Well, fucking tough shit. And this is from someone again who has stolen plenty of things in his life. But yeah, do not think you're an asshole Clint. And you do, you did bring up some points that I definitely didn't think of. So thank you for doing that. Now, another anonymous update now from an anonymous fan,

Starting point is 01:38:48 just this loving sucker, Sandra Salvatto, Sandra writes, I saw that this week's topic is anonymous and I wanted to write it and tell you about my own experience with the group. I worked in Newton, Connecticut for 15 years. Might be Newtown. I went ahead with Newton, maybe it's Newtown. And I was working in the town during the Sandy Hook shootings.

Starting point is 01:39:06 Oh yeah, I had friends who lost their children that day, the tragic event brought out the wackos and scumbags, oh man, they did ever fucking Alex Jones. During the aftermath of scumbag, Bafta's people showed up, yep, the Westboro people. They brought more painting grief to an already horrific environment. They tormented the families by saying,

Starting point is 01:39:22 God took their kids because of gruesome things that I will not repeat. Yep. Now, I did not agree with everything Anonymous does, but they helped beyond words. They saw what those scumbags were doing, published what hotels they were staying in and other helpful information. That is awesome.

Starting point is 01:39:37 I will only say it aided in keeping those scumbags away from the wakes and the funnels. They got so bad for those scumbags that they went home. I will forever be grateful to anonymous. If they are hearing this, thank you. Keep, oh, actually, and actually, you know what you wrote. I thought it was a typo, but I get what you're doing now. If they are reading this, thank you.

Starting point is 01:39:55 Yeah, like if they hacked the emails. Yeah. Keep up the great show. You make my work day go by quicker. Have a great day, Sandra. I'll thank you, Sandra. That is very cool to hear. I obviously didn, use that example

Starting point is 01:40:10 that they actually got the the West Pro Baptist to go home. That's in not protest. I don't think I use that one. That is that is very, very cool. Now for an anonymous sucker, another anonymous update left by anonymous sucker regarding war games that movie that Matthew Broderick movie and phone freaking. They wrote the movie war games taught is taught an old phone-freaker trick. There's a scene where Matthew Broderick needed to make a call from a pay phone and asked to borrow a paperclip. He unbent it and used it to contact the microphone of the handset to the base plate of the coin catch, thus shorting the phone making it think a coin had been placed to make a call. This trick actually worked. I saw in the movie, I tried it and used the trick for several years. Until about the late 90s when the phone company started

Starting point is 01:40:49 changing the pay phone to prevent this. That is fucking crazy. At the time, however, another hack was available and you could download a wave file of a quarter tone to play in the receiver for the same effect. I had an old hack back that I had spliced a headphone jack onto in place of the microphone, recorded the quarter wave file, used that to get free calls until the age of the payphone finally gave way to cell phones. Absolutely love this show, a show, three out of five stars, keep on sucking anonymous. That is crazy.

Starting point is 01:41:17 I never heard about any of that. And I'm old enough where all that stuff was around, you know, payphones are probably, I never knew anybody who knew how to hack the phones like that. And again, we were talking about theft a second ago. And I know that it's stealing. You're stealing like that phone belongs to the telephone company. You know, that's how they make money. There's people's jobs.

Starting point is 01:41:37 But I mean, when I was younger, what I've done that, absolutely. Just to see if I could mostly just like, oh my God, I'm a hacker now. Thank you, Anonymous. Now one of many emails we got from somebody who fell from my dog, the Bounty Hacker bullshit, which made me so happy. I didn't think that was going to work.

Starting point is 01:41:55 Duped, sack, Ryan, Allis writes, yo, you motherfucker, Bojangles will get you. I was listening to this week's podcast. Anonymous was on my lunch break. You then explain how dog the bounty hunter had graduated from MIT. And of course, as I'm hearing this, Ijangles will get you. I was listening to this week's podcast, anonymous was on my lunch break. You then explain how dog the bounty hunter had graduated from MIT. And of course, as I'm hearing this, I'm looking at the clock thinking, oh shit, I got a clock in, take calls from my company.

Starting point is 01:42:12 But the fact I found, so goddamn funny, that I sent a text to my best friend's group chat. Now having finished the episode, they have all Googled this, I am the mockery of our group chat. Bojangles heat my prayer and rip this meat sack's nuts off They have all Googled this. I am the mockery of our group chat. Both Jangle's Heed My Prayer and Rip This Meat Sacks Nuts Off for the embarrassing for the for the embarrassment cuts deep. Love the show. I've been a fan of your stand-up since I was in middle school. Please don't stop. You've brightened my life. Ryan. Thank you. Ryan. Man, I was shitty timing for you to hear that first part right before you had to go back to work. Send the group text.

Starting point is 01:42:44 Boy, it's gonna be a while. It's gonna be a while before you hear the end of that. I would say that with that group of friends, every time the dog, dog to bounty hunter, just pops up in one of their lives, you're gonna hear something. And you made me so happy. So please never stop sometimes falling for those things and embarrassing yourself. So still another anonymous update from another anonymous fan hacker fan meet sack Tyler S Tyler writes hey suck masters supreme. I've been listening to the sucks since

Starting point is 01:43:11 Last year after Pandora recommended scared to death to me. I've been hooked ever since I listened to the anonymous suck And have been have to say my hometown had an event that anonymous got involved in in the town of stupid below Hi, oh, there was a massive rape scandal that took place at a high school party. I remember that. Yeah. The big red high school among the debauchery of underage drinking a girl had passed out drunk two top football players from the football team proceeded to take advantage of her. These dirt bags posted the videos to a secret fan website for the big red football team called Roll Red Roll because these football players were well known, talented, easily qualifying for scholarships. Many people tried to sweep it under the rug, anonymous exposed these dirt bags, and they got tried as adults.

Starting point is 01:43:49 For not only sexual assault, but the videos, they made, you know, it was a possession of child pornography. Thanks for the amazing content. Sorry, not sorry for the long email. Three to five stars wouldn't change a thing. Thank you, Tyler. I did not know that anonymous was behind that either. I don't think I all blurs in my mind like which ones we talked about, which ones I've been reading

Starting point is 01:44:09 as updates. But yeah, that is, I mean, they have done some very, very good social justice things here, you know, and helped docs, people, exposed people who otherwise would have gotten away with, you know, horrific crimes. So thank you for sending that in. And then one final hacker update now, from another anonymous sucker. They write greetings, father of all that sucks, big fan of all things bad magic. If you decide to use this, please keep my name out

Starting point is 01:44:32 as I live in the cat and mouse game of information security for living. I wanted to reach out regarding your recent podcast about anonymous in the world of hacking. Most of the data breaches we see today are from entities overseas. And there are specific internet port ranges that they come from and while you can spoof IP addresses most people get sloppy and you can follow the bouncing ball to find find where the origin

Starting point is 01:44:53 That's how that's how dog the bounty hacker gets them. I'm pretty sure There are also scammers who utilize card scanners on gas pumps or card readers to get your information Also, there are other hackers that are named bug hunters. They make a very good living with bug bounties reporting hacks found in different software and operating system. Oh, that's awesome. Somebody's having like this big bug, this big issue, and then you just pay some hacker like, Hey, we'll give you $50,000. How are that? How are $100,000? Whatever. If you can find that bug and fix the code, that's super cool. Recently someone found two bugs in a rather large software platform and received $100,000 per bug. Holy shit.

Starting point is 01:45:25 Most self-described hackers are generally good people who like to drink a lot. I recommend looking into DEF CON, DEF CON.org. It's in their 29th iteration this year. If you happen to go, I recommend taking a burner laptop and phone you don't care if they hack into. Also, don't wear or use Bluetooth devices. It's a very large hacking conference. I bet that gets fucking wild.

Starting point is 01:45:43 It's in Las Vegas, you know, every year other than the year of the pandemic, they have workshops on social engineering, biomedical and wireless hacking, even vehicle hacking. I went to a few of these conferences where I watched some hack voting machines. Yes, voting machines. That's terrifying. IV pumps and a new Dodge Challenger. The best of the best go to this along with Feds. Holy shit, they actually have a game called Spot the Feds that the hackers play. If you have further questions, let me know.

Starting point is 01:46:11 I'll try to answer them as best I can as technology changes quickly and we have to adapt with it. Sorry not sorry for the length. Hail Lucifina and keep on sucking. Thank you, anonymous. And again, if you already want to check that out, it's defcon.org.

Starting point is 01:46:23 There's no fucking way I would go to that thing with my actual phone or my actual laptop. I don't know if I would have thought of that though, before you say that. But man, some of the best hackers in the world hanging out and running that place, that's like a movie waiting to happen. Thank you for sharing that,

Starting point is 01:46:37 did not know that at all about hacker culture. Jesus, someone just read their engine, right outside, about Jimt on my seat. Finally, an update to the old Emmanuel David cult sucked. This is intense. Remember that sock lover? Straightened out sack, Chelsea Ellis does.

Starting point is 01:46:51 Chelsea writes, no longer crooked, thanks to Emmanuel David. I don't know if you remember that episode that was one of his faith healing claims that he could like, you know, help people with spinal issues. She writes, I'd offer a clever intro, but you've been called Damier every name possible.

Starting point is 01:47:04 I'm just not that witty. I don't remember how I came across this mess. That's perfect. But yes, but I've been binging the fuck out of it for months now. That just cracked me up because just before this recording, Joe and I were joking around, we're like, I have no idea why this works. I needed podcasts because while I sew up my cat and hip toys

Starting point is 01:47:20 for the new side hustle, hey, it's helping pay for this divorce. Can I get a hail triple M? Hail triple M. I found trying to watch TV while operating a fast moving deal was not the smartest idea. The marriage being the first. Hey, oh, I'm currently at the Emanuel David episode and I hear your skepticism of him,

Starting point is 01:47:36 curing scoliosis. Look, I don't like supporting or encouraging wacky doodles any more than the next cult member, but I gotta give props where props are due. I was diagnosed with scoliosis in elementary school with that super fun test where they gather all the kids have them bend over one by one in front of the gym teacher who always seems to be male,

Starting point is 01:47:52 creepy bison teen girls offering to be hinds to a grown man. Could that be some kind of pito conspiracy? The sky's as a health screening. Hmm, luminati. I remember barely bending before they ushered me off to the side opposite everyone else. Thankfully, I never needed surgery, but as an adult, bending over or showing my X-ray attached for funsies, yes.

Starting point is 01:48:09 It's kind of cloudy. I think I took a breath and they said to hold it. I was always a rebel. It was like my party trick. Guaranteed to make me memorable. While I never needed surgery, I still would sometimes look up what was new in the medical world involving scoliosis and actually came across David's cure. Seems simple enough. You actually weren't too far off

Starting point is 01:48:27 in your joke about stretching someone out on a table by pulling at opposite ends. I figured what the hell do I have to lose? Surgery while having come a long way since early 90s still possess that risk of paralysis that terrified me. So I contacted a manual David, I went in with a healthy dose of doubt. Well, those of us born crooked always always wonder how different we would look,

Starting point is 01:48:45 feel if we were straight and let me tell you, it took some time getting used to an extra two and a half inches of height I gained. I'm still too short for the top shelf and grocery stores, but the petite side jeans are now the perfect length for me. What, to have found a non-surgical solution to this thing, I've hated it by myself for my entire life, it's worth having to contact you,

Starting point is 01:49:03 to tell you none of this is true, you asshole. And I read that before, I tried to sell it again because the first time I read this, you fucking got me. I was like, what? How can you just stretch someone? And having a better spine. And then it tells you right, I'm still crooked as fuck. But I'm also still mad over having fallen over that goddamn Humphrey Bogart shit in the Manhattan

Starting point is 01:49:22 Project suck. I Twitter brought up and was typing, did y'all fucking know Humphrey Bogart pretended to be killed in front of people? When you got me, but no more. I've gotten pretty good at predicting your shenanigans, mainly because I just now assume everything you say is utter bullshit. Thanks for giving me company,

Starting point is 01:49:36 while I really fine tune my new life of divorcee interthirties with multiple cats. Sidenote, if some other crooked bitch beat me to this joke, I'm gonna be so pissed. That's so funny. But I'll also need their contact info because that's someone I want to be friends with. Chelsea. Well Chelsea, yeah, like I said, you did get me to that bullshit. You really did.

Starting point is 01:49:54 Nice. And I thought that was very funny. So thank you. I hope you fall for more of my bullshit. And you know, hope down the road you get me was more your bullshit. Best luck with the cats. There's jokes, there's low hanging fruit jelves. Jokes, I'm sure I can make. That you brought up, the cat lady thing, you know,

Starting point is 01:50:11 it's surrounded by pussy. That's not bad, stuff like that. Anyway, I'm gonna get out of here. Uh, I feel crazy. I'm gonna move on out of time suckers. I need a net. We all did. Thanks for listening to this Bad Magic Productions podcast. It made sense.

Starting point is 01:50:31 I hope it made sense. I think it did. Again, I rewrote it so many times that as I'm going through the notes, I'm like, wait a minute. Is that something I said before? Or is that something I didn't say before? Is that something that was on the draft one? Or draft six?

Starting point is 01:50:44 Please don't pay to watch any kids get eaten this week. Maybe just relax. Stop at a nice whiskey ginger and keep on sucking instead. I knew what the right word was. I just messed around. I knew what the right word was. I just messed around.

Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 242 - Jameson Whiskey and Cannibalism

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