Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 265 - The Dolphin Point Experiment: LSD, Aliens, NASA, and Dolphin Sex

Starting point is 00:00:00 From the outside, the house looked like just another villa on the beach on St. Thomas Island, part of the US Virgin Islands, a tropical paradise full of palm trees and white sandy beaches, where the weather pretty much stays between 70 and 90 degrees year-round. A popular Caribbean cruise ship destination full of time shares, luxury resorts, banana dacqueries, rum punch and vacation rentals. But this one villa, this villa didn't really have anything to do with island life or vacations. This villa was all about science. Kind of, weird science. Really, really, really weird science.

Starting point is 00:00:33 On the inside, the villa was home to the Dolphin Point Laboratory, a project born out of the mind of Dr. John C. Lilly, one of the most polarizing figures in American scientific history. Lilly was a highly educated and accomplished man, a medic, neurologist, inventor. He was a man with some very lofty goals. A man with some very interesting beliefs, leaves some other people in America's scientific

Starting point is 00:00:54 and academic community were really excited by, at least at first, beliefs others thought were completely batchy and crazy. Before creating his dolphin point laboratory, well, he had become obsessed with trying to communicate with highly intelligent extra-trestrials. He felt would be landing on Earth Uh, at any moment extra-trestrials he already believed were communicating with him subconsciously. Most he while he floated in a sensory deprivation chamber guiding his life in ways they didn't always make explicitly clear. And Lily got it in his head that the advanced communication abilities of dolphins, which he thought may include telepathy, if properly and thoroughly unlocked, could then, you know, unlock humanity's ability to converse with visiting alien life forms. He wanted to bridge

Starting point is 00:01:34 the so-called communication gap between humans and animals. And to do that, he'd use his house in St. Thomas along with some NASA money. The conduct and experiment that started off is crazy and quickly spiraled into giving a dolphin hand jobs and letting the dolphin dry St. Thomas, along with some NASA money, the conduct and experiment that started off as crazy and quickly spiraled into giving a dolphin hand jobs and letting the dolphin dry hump a human living assistant researcher. And maybe more, all the name of trying to get the dolphin to speak English so they could get the dolphin

Starting point is 00:01:56 to help them talk to aliens. Huh? Yeah, you just heard all that right. In the summer of 1965, the Dolphin Point Research Center on St. Thomas became a dolphin human roommate situation of dolphinarium in which lilies assistance 24 year old local woman Margaret Howe volunteered to live and confinement with the young bottle knows Dolphin named Peter six days a week 24 hours a day. A couple's Dolphin House was flooded

Starting point is 00:02:19 with water, redesigned so that Margaret and Peter could live, sleep, eat, and learn together, and yeah, do some other stuff. Total immersion, all the name of quickly teaching a dolphin to literally speak English, to be able to pop out of the water and be like, hey, what's up? Oh, names Peter. Let's talk about aliens. Lily in 1968 predicted that human language speaking dolphins could be a reality within a decade or two. Spoiler alert? That didn't happen. He did not teach dolphins how to speak English. I think you know that. How game-changing would that have been?

Starting point is 00:02:48 Some talking dolphin would have the most followers on TikTok right now. One of the Kardashians would have released a sex tape of them with a dolphin. Some dolphin would have the hottest mix tape of 2021. Dropping bars with baby Gucci or Jody High Roller or something. Jody High Roller would probably be married to a dolphin, posting on Instagram about how they're expecting a new human dolphin baby.

Starting point is 00:03:07 Them dolphin would be a UN ambassador for the world's oceanic life. Another one would be the mayor of Atlantis. Dolphins can't speak English or any other human language and they will never do so. Not based on what we know about them right now at least, but Lily sure thought that they could. He believed that their language and their minds were just as complex as our own, maybe more complex in some ways. And he convinced Margaret Howe that bridging the dolphin human communication gap was a major

Starting point is 00:03:30 scientific breakthrough, breakthrough. She could help accomplish. She could help humanity talk to aliens by teaching a dolphin how to speak English. Did I mention Lily was way into acid? He would end up injecting dolphins with lots of LSD as well. He was on so much acid, the dolphins run so much acid. And I have to think Margaret Howe is probably triven balls as well, even though that's never explicitly stated.

Starting point is 00:03:51 What is explicitly stated is that she had sex with a dolphin many times. And that sounds like something acid would help you think was a good idea. As the week's progress that fateful summer, Lily's experiment took several turns, the most notorious of which was Margaret's decision to engage, of course, in a sexual relationship with Peter, because she thought it would mellow him out and enable him to focus more on learning English. It did not. My God! This is going to be a weird one today, and I know that's saying a lot. It's almost always a weird one here every day, but more so today. So much to learn on this week's's how could all of this be true?

Starting point is 00:04:25 Insanity, tripping balls, fucking dolphins, experimental edition of TimeSuck. Happy Monday, meat sacks. Step on it inside the cold to the curries is virtual compound. Only the exceptionally curious should partake in today's lesson. It's not for anyone who isn't comfortable getting that so very strange. If beastieality really freaks you out and you just can't handle it, you might want to stop now. I'm Dan Cellman, it's a master sucker,, suck nasty Jimmy Tutons regettis vocal coach, a guy who can't unsee any of what I saw researching this week's topic. There's a lot of stuff on the internet and you are

Starting point is 00:05:15 listening to time suck. He'll name Rod praise Luciferina be a good boy, Bojangles and throw down a solid beat for us to learn to triple him. A couple quick announcements then show now in the store bad magic merch.com our art warlock Logan Keith is designed Start on a solid beat for us to learn to triple M. Couple quick announcements and show. Now in the store, badmagicmerch.com, our art warlock Logan Keith has designed a short and long sleeve shirt. He's calling the butterfly of knowledge. Very psychedelic design, very appropriate for today's topic.

Starting point is 00:05:36 Reminder that the October badmagic charity of the month is Rain, R-A-I-N-N, donating $15,600 to the rape, abuse, and incest national network, America's largest anti-sexual violence organization. Go to rain.org, R-A-I-N-N-N-D to learn more. And now for a topic that combines government-funded experiments, weird sex stuff, hallucinogenics, the possibility of extraterrestrial life, and oh so much more. Set your watch to Dolphin Fuckin' O'Clock.

Starting point is 00:06:08 Wow, gosh dang. Back into the world of strange experiments today. We've actually met one of the stars of this week's topic, Dr. Lilly, before here on Time Suck. We met him briefly in our bonus episode on MK Ultra, the CIA Mind Control Experiment. Of course, that's where we met him. The object of this week's experiment, as I stated in the episode opening, would be to, you know, teach dolphins English and not just so they could talk to aliens. The US government helped fund this strange experiment,

Starting point is 00:06:38 also, you know, for possible military applications like espionage, talking dolphins, particularly top secret talking dolphins, other nations, governments don't yet know can talk. Well, they would make excellent spies. I'll say the US government helped fund this experiment because even scientists are still emotionally driven creatures, just like the rest of us meet sex. Wanting a dolphin to talk, believing that a dolphin might know telepathy, believing aliens will soon visit Earth, who can also speak telepathically None of that has much basis in science. It has a lot of basis in emotion a lot of basis in like man

Starting point is 00:07:12 That be fucking cool. Let's see if we can do it John C. Lily was definitely an emotional scientist no ordinary scientist and the star of his human dolphin communication experiment Margaret How she wasn't a scientist at all? Isn't a scientist. She's still around. She was a lady who lived on the island and loved dolphins. These two definitely driven mostly by emotion. They weren't running around wearing lab coats, carefully checking their notes, compiling

Starting point is 00:07:35 them into spreadsheets, making sure the results of their experiments weren't contaminated. Now, they were just really, really hoping they could use some basic behavior techniques to get a horny dolphin to say hello. They were driven to try and talk with dolphins not out of any real scientific basis, but instead out of an overwhelming feeling that human beings were just being narcissistic to think. They were the only creatures on this planet capable of advanced language skills, you know, advanced as we currently possess. Even if there is no evidence to suggest that any other animal is as smart as we are at

Starting point is 00:08:03 all, like none at all. Sorry animal lovers, I love animals as well, but they're just not in the same brain weight class. No matter how much we want them to be, dolphins, other primates, they're fighting for an extremely distant second place. Planet of the apes, any and all other similar movies, fiction.

Starting point is 00:08:21 But John and Margaret didn't wanna believe that. They saw the human race as dominion over other animals as cruel, misinformed, narrow-minded, and self-centered. Is that a real scientist who rely on unemotional, tested, and empirically-based information to better understand the world around them and all its creatures and universe? Margaret and John conducted this experiment through some type of hippie-free love lifelands. They approached it from a perspective of dolphins being our intellectual equals, we just need to learn how to talk to them.

Starting point is 00:08:49 And that's a very sweet and feel good notion, but not true. To break this strange story down today, we'll first look into the history of trying to teach animals to talk, and we'll take a closer look at why dolphins seem to lily to be a good candidate for that experiment. Next, we'll examine dolphin sexual anatomy. If

Starting point is 00:09:05 we're going to talk about dolphin fucking today and we are going to do that. We need to understand what kind of heat they're packing. What are they? What are they got going on down there? And then before we get into our dolphin sex, Phil time stock timeline and this insane summer of the dolphin point lab experiment, we'll meet John C. Lilly and Margaret Howe. This this episode is first, if you don't find this episode interesting, I just don't understand you on any level. Let's begin teaching animals to talk. Animals able to communicate just as complex as we humans can.

Starting point is 00:09:36 This has been an object of human fascination for centuries, shown up in countless stories, fables, movies, TV shows. I mean, I'd love for this to be possible. Who wouldn't? Who wouldn't like to talk to their furry best friend roommate? Or get to know what birds are really thinking. When they sit outside your window squawking, Lindsey and I and the kids, Kyler Monroe,

Starting point is 00:09:54 we talk all the time about what are two Australian laboratories, Penny and Ginger, AKA Gigi, AKA D-D-D-D. Oh, D-D-D. What are they thinking? We strongly assume that Penny's a lot smarter than Gigi. Also boss here, possibly cruel, but it's any of that true, right? Is Gigi, is Deety? Is Gigi really just a lovable idiot?

Starting point is 00:10:14 What are we basing either one of their intelligence, you know, keep a million on? Physical appearance, I think mostly, right? Gigi has dopey eyes and Penny has highly alert eyes. She looks smarter to us. But what if they could both actually talk? Maybe Gigi has dopey eyes and Penny has highly alert eyes. She looks smarter to us. But what if they could both actually talk? Maybe Gigi would be smarter. Maybe she just laid back. It really has a lot going on upstairs. Dopey eyes and an active mind. Maybe she's a big daydreamer, a poet, philosopher. Maybe Penny's assertive and confident nature. Right? Her hyper focused and steely stare is just about wanting food.

Starting point is 00:10:43 She just really, really wants you to give her a treat and thinks that, you know, boring into your soul will help accomplish that. Maybe it's not about, you know, advance intelligence. So hard to know for sure when neither one of them can talk to us. Yeah, most people I think want animals to be able to dog her. They can be very cool.

Starting point is 00:10:58 My favorite comic strip of all time, The Far Side by Gary Larson, right? Mostly about talking non-human creatures, the personification of animals, insects, a guy in his dog in the living room, both holding up rolled up magazines. You know, they kind of a lot of pet owners have used to discipline their, their dogs, you know, over the years with, Mac their butts with the dogs, the talking of the owner and says, no way, I'll put my magazine down when you put yours down.

Starting point is 00:11:22 Another far side shows a dog put on a slide presentation for other dogs. Current slide features a picture of a cat. Hair raised on his back, claws out, hissing. The dog presenting says, now on this slide, we can see how the cornered cat has seemed to suddenly grow bigger. Trickery, trickery, trickery.

Starting point is 00:11:38 I realized so much was lost when you don't see the drawings. But you get it, talking animals, you know, thinking about animals shit like a human wood, it's just fun. People love personification. So many of the best cartoon movies are made about talking animals. The Disney Empire mostly built on talking animals.

Starting point is 00:11:55 We fucking love it. We desperately wanna know what all these creatures big and small around us are thinking and saying to one another. I've come across some chittering squirrels that I've assumed were telling me some equivalent of just fuck off, get out of here. But was that what they're really doing? Was it that complex of a thought? No, probably not. But I wanted it to be. Also, some animals do clearly

Starting point is 00:12:15 demonstrate, you know, some ability to truly communicate with us. We know they understand at least some of what we're saying. We communicate with them on some level, but is it possible to communicate more deeply? Lily thought so, wanted to prove it. For at least 200 years, researchers have reported several instances of nonhuman animals demonstrating remarkable language-like capabilities. Unfortunately, some of the best of these demonstrations have been hoaxes. And a lot of people still familiar with the demonstrations don't remember the exposed for being a hoax part.

Starting point is 00:12:43 They just remember the demonstration. Unfortunately, that's such a common way that misinformation is spread. Too many people remember the headline presented as truth. Too few pay attention to the retraction the next day, the next week, or the next year. The truth being exposed as a hoax. At some later point, one famous example is a hoax involving a horse named Clever Hans. Hans appeared to be capable of responding to simple arithmetic calculations with accuracy. When asked what is two plus two, you know, he tapped his hoof four times. Hans amazed both the general public and leading psychologists of the day for years with his apparent ability to perform arithmetic functions, identify colors, read and spell, even identify

Starting point is 00:13:23 musical tones. He was written about the New York Times in 1904 as a horse truly capable of understanding a decent amount of English. And one with a pretty good grasp of basic math. Then a group of 13 people called the Hans Commission investigated the claims, a group that included Veterinarian, circus manager, cavalry officer, number of school teachers, the director of the Berlin Zoological Gardens, and they came to the conclusion that some trickery was a foot. And then psychologists and comparative biologists Oscar Funkst, after reading the commission's

Starting point is 00:13:52 findings, analyzed the horse in 1907 and concluded that Hans was just responding to handler's cues rather than showing that it could understand human speech. The handler was doing the math and given Hans some signals. Hans was indeed clever to keep a close eye on the handler, doing the math and given Hans some signals. Hans was indeed clever to keep a close eye on the handler, but not clever enough to actually understand arithmetic. The name Clever Hans Effect was then given to the phenomenon of a handler influencing an animal's responses, especially in experiments designed to showcase the animal's intelligence. And more recent year scientists have worked harder to develop methods that remove human

Starting point is 00:14:23 presence and influence from animal cognition studies. In the mid-20th century, studies about animal intelligence and language capabilities would really take off. In the late 1950s, primates became the focus of studies on the linguistic abilities of non-human animals, particularly chimpanzees. There was the hope that primates, like, you know, Lily hoped would happen with dolphins, and would actually learn how to speak human languages. This is never panned out.

Starting point is 00:14:47 For decades, it was thought that chimps couldn't speak English because they just didn't have the right vocal anatomy to produce sounds necessary to speak English, but that's a myth. One that presits it for much of the 20th century. Now scientists understand that chimps, they do have the right physical tools. They have a flexible earring. Lips and vocal tracks required for speech, but their brains simply are not wired to speak like we do. Kind of like parrots.

Starting point is 00:15:11 Parrots are really good, the best at producing human-like English in terms of sound alone. They have thick, complexly muscled vocal tracks, very flexible tongues, but their little parrot brains do not allow them to be much of anything other than a mimic. They can't comprehend enough to truly communicate consistently and effectively some kind of adult Conversational human level they can repeat things. All this makes me think in addition to being really cool It would also be really sad in some ways if animals could talk like we do But you know, I'd be pretty hard on the human ego. I mean how does hard Harding, would that be, if you could only speak one language like me and at times, not even extremely fluently? And then you, you know, you read some article about or watch some video about a fucking

Starting point is 00:15:50 chimpanzee who's fluent in English, Spanish, Mandarin, Chinese, Russian. You're working in the dollar general. Worried about rent? Meanwhile, some champ is knocking down six figures, working as a translator for the U-An or some shit. I mean, don't, maybe we wouldn't want them to be as smart as sometimes we think we do. One of the first landmark language comprehension programs with primates was the Washoe project, which began in 1967 at the University of Nevada in Reno. Huh. We're never guess at Reno. It would

Starting point is 00:16:16 be where this took place. If someone asked me like, where did the 1967 landmark language comprehension program with primates take place. Nairobi? No? London? Huh? Berkeley? Beijing? Reno?

Starting point is 00:16:31 Really? I would have pegged Reno for a landmark bowling or a slot machine or bingo study. Not primates. I have to figure out that WASHO, a young champ, wasn't learning spoken English, scientists, theorized that since chimps communicated with each other via body language in the wild, they might be able to teach the chimps ASL American Sign Language. When the project first began, the researchers would repeat signs over and over again so that WASHO could learn to associate the sign with a particular object or action.

Starting point is 00:16:57 And one example, the ASL signal for the word more involves bringing the hands together and touching together the tips of your fingers. Since WASHO was fond of being tickled, they started showing her the sign when she was getting tickled and soon she was asking for more, a dangerous game asking for more tickles Washo also kind of fucked up that they taught Washo

Starting point is 00:17:15 to ask for more tickles before they tried to teach her how to tell people to stop tickling her. Those researchers were lucky that too much tickling didn't lead to someone's face getting eaten. Someone's balls getting ripped off. Not making up those kind of attacks either. You can find numerous examples online of chimps, essentially biting into a ripping someone's face off or ripping someone's balls off.

Starting point is 00:17:35 What an insane assault survive, by the way. To not be able to have kids because a chimp ripped your nuts off. No Linda, I do want to start a family, but you know the champ accident. Come on. Anyway, while trying to teach Washout to sign from more, the researchers needed to make her understand that a reflex was not the same as a deliberate action. And that she wasn't learning to sign for tickle or love or anything else. So when she cringed from being tickled or got overstimulated, through to immediately pull her hands apart and the tickling would only stop or would stop, the trying to still direct association with that sign and only that action. When Washel brought overstimulated, through to immediately pull her hands apart and the tickling would only stop or would stop.

Starting point is 00:18:05 To try and instill the direct association with that sign and only that action. When Washoe brought her arms together again, she would get tickled again. Then once that association was made, they needed to demonstrate that more could apply to more than tickling. To do that, they invented a game where Washoe would be pulled around in a laundry basket. When they stopped pulling her, she could tell them to start again if she made that sign for more. It didn't take her long to make this connection as well.

Starting point is 00:18:26 And then soon, Wash will realize that more could be applied to food, treats, you know, other activities, anything else you wanted. So very cool breakthrough. They truly taught a chimp to understand, to understand the sign for more. If my dog pennied you that sign, I feel like she would walk over to the drawer or we keep her treats in the kitchen. And she would make that sign, I don't know, around a thousand times today. This research would of course now be taken further and given more funding and soon more

Starting point is 00:18:50 and more primates could use sign language to various degrees. The next trying to teach other animals to talk project took off in 1971, the Laina project. Dwayne Rumbaw and Erst von Glasserfield, two researchers at the Yerks National Primate Research Center in Atlanta, part of Emory University, led a team of scientists who made a computer-based language training system. Atlanta was a female chimpanzee that these scientists taught to use a keyboard. Leonard did very well with lexagram research, who was able to distinguish many terms and relate them to symbols. A lexagram is a symbol that relates to a term or idea. When these symbols were pressed, the speaker would play the word in English, the lexogram would be shown on a video monitor.

Starting point is 00:19:27 Using these symbol-based buttons, Manning could tell a lab assistant to do things like refill her treats. She could also request items that weren't in the lab that she couldn't see, which told researchers she'd formed an association between the object and the lexogram that had stuck in her brain.

Starting point is 00:19:41 After over five years of training, she could eventually form simple sentences using that keyboard, like, please Tim, tickle Lena. But that was as far as they ever got, you know, super impressive, but a long way from communicating like a human. I mean, if your name's Tyrone and you have a friend named Joel, and the most advanced thing Joel can say is, please Tyrone, tickle Joel. You're not going to think, God damn, Joel is a fucking genius. Now you're going to think Joel God damn, Joel is a fucking genius. Now you're going to think Joel is, you know, not too intellectually sophisticated. And in that specific

Starting point is 00:20:09 example, you're going to think Joel's fucking gravy. Continually asking you to tickle him. Arguably the most famous primate who was a subject of an experiment involving trying to teach an animal to talk to humans, being trained while the Lena project was just getting started, this cocoa, the gorilla gorilla Coco just a year old 1972. She began her career as a student of human language. Born in the San Francisco zoo early on two Stanford researchers, Francine Patterson and Charles Pastrenac. They took it to a sanctuary near Woodside, California,

Starting point is 00:20:38 in the Santa Cruz Mountains. Unlike Washill, she was taught sign language and the sound of a word at the same time. And within just two weeks, she learned how to make the signs for water and food. In the span of four years, she learned over 200 signs. And then you could talk to her.

Starting point is 00:20:52 You didn't have to always talk to her in sign language. You could talk to her verbally in English. She would respond in sign language. When tested for comprehension, Coco scored well, not near human capability, but she could form unique combinations of signs for things demonstrating a pretty advanced understanding of how language works. Like she knew the signs for the words bracelet and finger.

Starting point is 00:21:11 She did not know the sign for ring, but when presented with a ring and asked what the ring was all on her own, she came up with finger bracelet. That's pretty fucking cool. As stories of her ability spread to the scientific world and beyond cocoa became an international celebrity with the vocabulary eventually exceeding a thousand signs and the ability to understand roughly 2000 words of spoken English. National Geographic featured Coco and it's covered twice. First in October 1978 with a photograph that she took of herself in a mirror, Gerilla Selfie, noise. Also appeared a second time in the cover in January, 1995, a company by a story about Coco and one of her pet kittens. She would have several, she would name them herself. I love the names of her kittens.

Starting point is 00:21:52 All ball, lips, smokey. My favorite devil tooth. Huh? I bet a few cats that that would be an app name for. Fisty little bastards, quick to bite, when you're not, you know, given them what they want, or they get over simulated. Among the many human-like traits that made Cocoa Special

Starting point is 00:22:08 was she seemed to have a sense of humor, even a bit of playful, mischievousness. She played around with language like so many of us meat sacks do as well. Like here's an example, Cynthia Gourney, a contributing writer for a National Geographic interviewed Coco in 1985. And at first Cocoa did not seem to warm up

Starting point is 00:22:23 to take well to Gourney. And using sign language called her a toilet. I fucking love that. Coco's a handler that recommended her saying, Coco, that's not nice. That's not a nice thing to say to somebody, and then she seemed to smile. So great.

Starting point is 00:22:35 She told the journalist as best as she knew how, that she was shit. And maybe she was, right? Never met her. I love that Coco knew how to curse. I wonder if one of the experimenters or someone just hanging around the lab secretly taught Coco to call me a toilet's not gonna lie, I would for sure do that. Or better though, you know, if Coco on her own knew that toilets contained shit and that some people

Starting point is 00:22:55 reminded her of shit. Coco did end up warming up to Sensei Gourney and when Gourney asked Coco where gorillas go when they die, this is pretty crazy. She signed Comfortable Hole Buy. Comfortable Hole Buy is in buried and gone, maybe. Interesting. Besides her National Geographic covers, Coco appeared in several documentaries and famously interacted with actor and former succ subject Robin Williams in a 2001 video,

Starting point is 00:23:19 in which she played with Williams and tried on his glasses. Pretty adorable video, about five minutes long, may or may not fire up your allergies, may kind of mess with your tear glands. Those two seem to generally have a good time together, goofing around, make each other laugh, man, robber Williams could even crack up a gorilla. There's video proof.

Starting point is 00:23:36 Toko died in June of 2018, the ripe old gorilla age of 46, outliving the average lifespan in gorillas in the wild by over five years. They generally lived 30 to 40 years. And she was healthy right up until the end, even though she lived a long time, longer than, you know, she was supposed to.

Starting point is 00:23:51 Her dad still took researchers who worked with her by surprise because she was so with it right up and tell us she just passed away. A last thing about Coco, this is so fucking absurd. Coco had a strong fascination with nipples, both male and female. She liked to show you her nipples and she liked to see andination with nipples, both male and female. If you like to show your hernipples and you like to see and touch your nipples, you can find a clip of this as well online.

Starting point is 00:24:11 Robin Williams would joke about Coco holding him by the nipples on one of the stand-up specials. You can just find it on YouTube if you just put Robin Williams' Coco in the search bar there. Because America in 2005, three female researchers quit working with Coco and then sued the gorilla foundation where Coco lived basically, over sexual harassment, dished out by a fucking gorilla. They said they felt pressured to show Coco their nipples and their lawsuits were settled

Starting point is 00:24:38 out of court. Jesus Christ. See all the fucking pervade your nipples already. Or get a new job, working with a gorilla who doesn't wanna see those sweet, sweet nips. If I had to get a job working with animals, and one of the animals, you know, could communicate well enough to ask me

Starting point is 00:24:52 to show the animal my dick. I would either just show it my dick. I probably would, I don't care about nudity. To me, it's a, some kind of weird American hang up, whatever, show the fucking monkey dick. Or I do the practical thing and start looking for a new job where I didn't have to show monkey my dick or show a girl in my dick or whatever.

Starting point is 00:25:09 I would for sure not quit and then sue over the requests of a fucking gorilla. Lost suits in this country. Get the fuck out of here with so much this weak ass shit. Maybe there's more to it, but maybe not. Another talking animal is made headlines earlier this year. This is pretty adorable. Bunny, a TikTok famous sheep of doodle.

Starting point is 00:25:27 Sheep dog and doodle, a poodle, has gone viral in recent months for short videos showing her using a soundboard with different nouns to form short sentences. A few years back, Bunnies owner Alexis, I think she's over in Tacoma, had a soundboard made up of circular buttons after watching videos of another dog Stella using the sound board. Each button dictates a word when pressed.

Starting point is 00:25:47 By pawn these buttons, Bunny started communicating. Alexis originally began with one button outside. You know what I had out the door, unlike most dogs who can recognize sit, stay, treat, and walk. Bunny can actually generate sentences from 92 words. This 92 word vocabulary, there's all these different buttons. You can tell your owner go outside, you can call someone a stranger,

Starting point is 00:26:07 so you can identify various parts of your own body, even this is my favorite. Even tell people to shut up. In her words, it's a button, it's settled down. And I watched a video where she told her owner to shut up and take her for a walk. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, and nice, I knew Penny and Gigi could understand quite a bit.

Starting point is 00:26:24 Also, both of them, for sure, would tell Lindsey and I to shut up if they could. They sleep in our bed with us, and if they're trying to go to sleep at night and we're talking, they'll let out these super dramatic loud exhales just, or make these little like, ah, you're annoying me groans.

Starting point is 00:26:40 Sassy little bitches. We love them. Praise the old jangles, please watch over and protect them. Our recent scientific research has proven a lot of dogs are pretty damn smart when it comes to language recognition. In 2017, Gregory Burns, professor of neuroeconomics at Emory University, led a training program that taught dogs to walk in an FRF MRI scanner without sedation or restraint. And then with the dogs inside, their owners could list the names of surrounding objects

Starting point is 00:27:03 and toys alongside occasional gibberish. The scans showed that the dogs' brains could quickly discriminate between words that they knew and unfamiliar words and or nonsense. The scans also revealed that the dogs seemed to make no distinction between words that differed by a single speech sound, like paw and pow, pretty much the same to them. Researchers led some to think that we might not be that far away from pet translators. According to an Amazon sponsored study, some type of pet translator could be on the market within 10 years.

Starting point is 00:27:33 With the help of artificial intelligence scientists are already learning how to translate animals, vocalizations, and facial expressions in words that we can understand. A pet translator, that sounds wild. I wonder how many pet owners would be so disappointed by what their dogs are saying though, right? Like yeah, they can technically talk now, but just saying just so much dumb shit Hey, but jangles was going on, bud. I like lucky my balls. I know. Okay. I know what jangles I like licking my balls. I know buddy. We all know. I'm gonna lick my balls. Feels good. Okay Not every thought needs to be expressed.

Starting point is 00:28:06 Do you wanna lick my balls? All right, let's go outside. I think it's not a bird in the yard. Bird, it all reminds me that Disney movie up. Right, the dog with the collar that allows it to talk. Squirrel. Well, all this is super cool. It is not a quay to a human-like understanding of language.

Starting point is 00:28:22 Yes, some animals have been able to string together a few short statements, right? Few short words. Every years of training, and that's very impressive. But John C. Lilly thought for a while that the training could be taken so much farther. You know, and that just doesn't seem to be possible based on what research has discovered over the years.

Starting point is 00:28:37 So why not? Why isn't it possible? Well, we've already talked about high animals, either lack the proper vocal equipment, the mimic human language, or like the proper brain development or both. Also in terms of brain function, they don't seem to have the cognitive functional ability to move beyond a toddler's level of communication.

Starting point is 00:28:51 Check out this experiment. In a 2001 issue of the Journal of Comparative Psychology, a team of researchers shared their findings on a study conducted on dogs and on four to six-year-old children. The dogs and children were first shown a desirable object in a container. Next, a person holding the container passed behind three screens, and then the container was shown to be empty. The dogs and the children were then allowed to search for the object behind the screens. While children tended to increase their speed of checking behind the third screen, after failing to find the object behind the first two, the dogs tended to significantly decrease their

Starting point is 00:29:24 speed of checking behind the third screen after they failed the first two times. Now, what does that mean? It means that children are capable of something called disjunctive, disjunctive inference, basically putting together limited information in a way that we would call logical. The dogs, however, not motivated by logic, just association. They couldn't deduce that if someone had an object before walking behind three screens and then didn't have it after walking, you know, behind them, the object was, you know, going to be behind one of those three screens and I'll likelihood. And then if you didn't find it between the first two, there's a very good chance it was going to be behind the third screen. Sorry, Bojangles, your brave and

Starting point is 00:29:59 you fight for freedom and your immortal, but maybe not very smart. Take a, you're a God. You're a God. Forgive me for my mockery. The dog study concluded with the, there is as yet no compelling evidence for successful logical reasoning using the disjunctive syllogism in non-human animals. So, wah, wah. Emotionally, I'm motivated to ignore that evidence

Starting point is 00:30:20 because it brings me too much joy to think about penny and GG, not just being able to use logic, but actually be able to scheme and stuff. I like to pretend that penny is an evil mastermind, continually plotting for gg's downfall. Another essential characteristic is human language that no other animal seems to have the ability to grasp is normativity. In the context of language, comprehension, normativity refers to the ability to understand that there are right and wrong uses of a word or phrase. We understand, for instance, at least some of us, that we can sometimes use a certain word incorrectly,

Starting point is 00:30:50 or if we don't yet know how to use it correctly, an animal's use of language does not have that aspect. An animal might use a sign the way we intended it to be used, or it might not use a sign that way, but the animal itself doesn't understand that it doesn't know how to use a sign, or that it has used it incorrectly Until it's been told that it was incorrect Understand the idea of a mistake or of normativity depends on the ability to understand that something is not right and since animals can't seem

Starting point is 00:31:16 According to all research thus far to understand that their ability to understand how language works is you know severely limited Why then did John see Lily think that he could teach English to dolphins? Well, to be fair to that maniac, a lot of this research, most of it, has been conducted since his crazy ass dolphin experiment, not before. Why he focused on dolphins relates to his knowledge of brain structure. He was a smart guy, anyways. A part of the brain known as the Broccus Area in the cerebrum, the anterior and largest part of our brain, is an area closely associated with speech comprehension.

Starting point is 00:31:49 In the Broccus Area scientists have observed certain neurological pathways that are thought to be instrumental in our ability to speak. Most other animals' brains don't seem to have these neurological pathways, but parrots, bats, and dolphins do. And dolphins are arguably the cutest member of this group. So I can see why Lily wanted to spend a lot of time with him. Also dolphins' brains are bigger than the brains of bats and parrots. So they do make a great example, or they do, you know, they are the most logical example

Starting point is 00:32:17 of an animal use you would, you know, could be led to think would have the most advanced communication abilities and an impossibly human-like communication abilities. Bottle-nosed dolphins in particular have bigger brains in humans, 1,600 grams versus 1,300 grams. They have a brain-to-body weight ratio greater than grade Apes 2, but lower than humans, making them the second-most and specialized beings on the planet.

Starting point is 00:32:39 Let's really dive into talking about dolphins now. Why would they, yeah, just, you know, about why they're considered such a good candidate to speak with? They're good for more than being just a why they were considered, such a good candidate to speak with. They're good for more than being just a frequent subject of tattoo artwork found on attractive women's lower backs. They're also pretty incredible creatures. They're socially skilled, agile, joyful, playful.

Starting point is 00:32:55 They share many emotional similarities with humans and they are very intelligent. Dolphins brain-to-body ratio, pretty good indicator of overall intelligence and animals is second-yet only to humans. Cognitively, they are also one of the very few animals on Earth able to pass self-awareness tests and mirrors. They can recognize themselves and others. Dogs, for example, well pretty smart, easy-boach angles. They do not have the ability to recognize their own reflection in a mirror the way humans

Starting point is 00:33:21 and some other animals are able to. They will always treat the reflection like another dog or just simply ignore it. So true. Poor Dee Dee. Poor Dee Dee. So you just keep a real close eye on yourself in the mirror, at the bottom of the stairs that we don't have anymore. Like she would stare at herself sometimes for over an hour.

Starting point is 00:33:36 Like in a tense, a tense stare session. Sometimes she'd bark and grow. She'd scare herself by moving too fast. I think the other dog was moving fast too. Sometimes I used to worry that maybe she was looking at goats or demons or something. Nope, just herself, just weirded out by herself because she thought it was another dog.

Starting point is 00:33:53 Unless some additional animals have passed a test in the last six years, according to a 2015 BBC article, only eight non-human animals can definitely pass them your test with one additional probably. Not every individual of these species can pass it by the way, just some of them. Asian elephants, Eurasian magpies,

Starting point is 00:34:12 bonobos, chimpanzees, orangutans, gorillas, manta rays are the maybe slash probably, bottlenose dolphins, and nine would have never guessed this one in a million years.

Starting point is 00:34:26 Do you want to take a second to guess? Unicorns. Unicorns can not only recognize themselves and others in mirrors, they can also walk in and out of mirrors. Using them as portals, not only essentially teleport from one part of the world to another, they can also bend, space and time. A David Hatcher, children's here,

Starting point is 00:34:44 time suck, registered in cryptos, biologist, former University of Montana, student, Gilgris, unicorns have been theorized to possess many different powers. They can likely fulfill wishes to those truth, heart, detect lies, and their horns can cure disease, and heal deadly wounds. But I have never heard of them being able to walk in and out of mirrors or anything of that. David, uh, David, I was kidding. That was, that was a joke. Oh, I just, um, okay, I just heard unicorns and I, I didn't want you to embarrass yourself or, or anything. Uh, David, uh, you want to go wait out in the hall? Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. No, no problem.

Starting point is 00:35:21 Please turn just tell everyone about my new show on ENG. Maybe it's giants. Sorry about that interruption. I can't seem to fully shake David Hatcher's children from ancient aliens. The ninth creature I was going to mention, one that for sure passes the mirror tests, not kidding this time, ants. Fucking ants. And they're teeny tiny little brains. In 2015, science has published research that suggests some ants can definitely

Starting point is 00:35:45 recognize themselves when looking in a mirror. When viewing other ants through glass, ants did not divert from their normal behaviors in this experiment. Specifically, if you're a big ant nerd, scientists tested three different species in the mmerka genus of ants for this experiment, and while their behavior did not change when they saw other identical looking ants through the glass, is it, is it antist? I think they all look the same. Their behavior did change when they were put in front of a mirror. When put in front of a mirror, the ants would start to move slowly. They would turn their heads back and forth, shake their antenna, touch the mirror, clearly intrigued, clear it a little bit of like, hey, it's going on here. They'd retreat, they'd re-approach the mirror,

Starting point is 00:36:24 sometimes they start to use the mirror to groom themselves. Then the ants were given a more revealing mirror test. The same team of researchers would use blue dots to mark the cl-pias, cl-pias of some of the ants, which is a part of their face to their mouths. When in an environment without mirrors, these ants would behave normally, would not touch the markings on their face. They seem to have no idea they were there, but this would change when they could see the reflections in a mirror.

Starting point is 00:36:48 The ants with blue dots on their face would go groom and appear to try to take the marking off to try and remove it. Very young ants, other ants with brown dots that blended in with the color of their face did not clean themselves. Interestingly, neither did ants with blue dots put on to the back of their heads, where they couldn't see it in their reflection. So pretty crazy. Also pretty mean to the ants with the blue dots, they couldn the back of their heads where they couldn't see it in their reflection. So pretty crazy.

Starting point is 00:37:05 Also pretty mean to the ants with the blue dots. They couldn't get off their faces. Just left them there in front of that mirror. Just like, what the fuck? Who did this? Mark, Jimmy, Tarell, Wang, Jose, Skeeter. Who the fuck did it? Back to dolphins now.

Starting point is 00:37:19 I just found all that very interesting and surprising. We must keep an eye on ants before they rise up and take over. There's a million billion ants on earth. God knows how many of them are those paralyzing three inch long killer ants out there waiting to eat our heads off our next. Ombre, a Sino ants. Studies real, but that species of ant is not. If you're not a long term sucker and don't recognize the Ombre, a Sino monster dolphins, though, supposed to be talking about dolphins. In addition to being able to pass the mirror test, dolphins also do drugs. Not kidding.

Starting point is 00:37:50 They like recreational drugs. They like to chew lightly on pufferfish. Pufferfish, one of the most poisonous fish in the ocean. They use a powerful nerve poison. They can kill a large mammal in pretty small doses, but in teeny tiny doses, when ingested by dolphins, known to seek them out, but never eat them just kind of barely nibble on them. It seems to provide a narcotic

Starting point is 00:38:10 effect. Pufferfish, AKA dolphin coke, AKA dolphin whipple. Backing up for a second, there are a lot of different types of dolphins. Not all of them are of equal intelligence. Currently, they're 49 dolphin, porpoise species grouped into six families. The oceanic dolphin family by far the largest with 38 members. Porpoise family has seven members and four river dolphin families, each with just one species left. Did you know the river dolphins was a thing? I didn't. They don't live in Asia and South America. I'll see just a couple large rivers in India and in the Amazon. Wild. I wish the rivers around here were full of dolphins.

Starting point is 00:38:50 See a dolphin in the river would be incredible, especially on shrooms. Right? I think if I did that, I would think that I just had died and gone to heaven. Peter, who would be trained as part of the dolphin point lab experiment was a bottle nose dolphin. Bottle nose dolphins seem to be the smartest dolphins in the world, although it's not known for certain. River dolphins, for example, have not been studied

Starting point is 00:39:07 that thoroughly because they don't survive well at all in captivity. Bottle nose dolphins are found throughout the world in both offshore and coastal waters, including harbors, bays, golfs, estuaries of temperate and tropical waters. Bottle nose dolphins get their name from their short, thick snout, sometimes called their rostrum.

Starting point is 00:39:24 They're generally gray in color, but can range from light gray to almost black, especially near their dorsal fins, while some bottle noses, bellies are almost white. Common bottle nose dolphins can get real big, reaching weights of up to 1400 pounds, lengths of 12 and a half feet, and they live a long time as well around 40 to 50 years. And they reach sexual maturity between five and 14 years old. That's quite the variance. Those five year old dolphins who wanna get the rocks off must really tease sexually uninterested 13 year olds.

Starting point is 00:39:53 Who are like, stop! I'm not ready! My mom said everyone develops on their own time guys, stop it! When they're not chewing on sea coke, bottom those dolphins feed on a variety of prey such as fish, squid, crustaceans like crabs and shrimp. They like those shrimps. These different techniques to pursue and capture prey much more advanced than most creatures.

Starting point is 00:40:13 Sometimes even work together to herd fish into groups, and take turns charging to the school of fish to feed. They also trap schools of fish against sand bars and sea walls for an easy meal. Fucking sea wolves. Ow! Instead of using their teeth to chew, dolphins grip fish with their teeth and swallow the fish whole head first so the spines of the fish don't catch their throat.

Starting point is 00:40:33 Importantly, bottlenose dolphins, all dolphins, mammals not fish. Both dolphins and fish have adapted to live their whole lives in the water. Both the streamline bodies and fins. Let's, you know, see mammals unlike fish, of course, have to return to the surface occasionally to breathe through their blow holes to get some air. Dolphins have evolved to take in air extremely efficiently, as they exchange 80% of the air

Starting point is 00:40:54 in their lungs with each breath. Humans, on the other hand, are only capable of exchanging 17% of the air in their lungs. If dolphins could just never have to be in the water, or could just stay constantly wet with like a mister or something, and they could just grow legs. They'd kill it in a long distance running and cycling with that kind of oxygen efficiency. Dolphins like all marine mammals have a greater capacity for oxygen storage in their lungs, blood, and muscles, and land dwelling mammals. All this creates more efficient use to the oxygen in their bodies, and what allows many species

Starting point is 00:41:22 to die for extended periods of time. Like many mammals dolphins give birth to a single baby, once every one to their bodies, and what allows many species to die for extended periods of time. Like many mammals, dolphins give birth to a single baby once every one to six years, and then feed their babies milk through their nipples. That's right, nipples. Sea nipples, ocean tautas. And yes, if you must know, I did Google Dolphin titties. After being reminded that they had nipples, I'm not ashamed, maybe probably should be, but I'm not.

Starting point is 00:41:45 And that specific search did not really bring up much of anything useful. It led me to some pretty fucked up memes, and it's some really weird illustrations, but nothing scientific. So next, I googled Dolphin Memories, and I found some more useful information. Then I searched for and found so much other shit relating

Starting point is 00:41:59 to Dolphin's sexy time bits. Let me share with you what I found. Hill Nimrod, it is almost time to talk about Dolphin dick. Based on what we're covering coming up, this knowledge will actually be useful today. Also some of this stuff is going to be very sexually explicit. You've been warned if you want to get out now. Starting with nipples, dolphins do have nipples. Just not external nipples. Female dolphins have mammary slits down alongside their long genital slit

Starting point is 00:42:26 with their vaginas and their anus hide. Everything's in the same area down on their lower belly by their tail. They have sniggy little butts and sniggy little pussies under these slits. And yes, I did also Google dolphin pussy while at Starbucks. But only because I felt safe, sitting up against the wall, where no one could see my screen. Their vaginal canal is spiral shaped, and I found this, I did find so much this fasting. Similar to humans, dolphins have a clitoris, located at the entrance to the vagina, where it is sure to be rubbed during penetrative sex.

Starting point is 00:42:59 It's believed they can have orgasms. One of the few animals on earth that definitely seem to have sex just for fun that we've discovered, that we know of, and they fuck a lot year round. Studies suggest dolphins have more sex than bonobos, and those free love and pygmy chimps have sex several times a day. Dolphins love to fuck. Hail to Staphina.

Starting point is 00:43:18 Staphina's favorite sea mammal. And they don't just have straight sex. Sometimes male dolphins, fuck other male dolphins. Sometimes female dolphins, all this has been observed. Sometimes female dolphins rub their sex bits against other female dolphins as sex bits. And according to several sources, they nibble on each other's fun bits. Yes, dolphins will get their bottle noses down there and they'll eat some dolphin plus. Or they'll give some kind of dolphin blowjob.

Starting point is 00:43:42 Sometimes dude dolphins basically line up and fuck another dolphin one after another. They will run a dolphin train on a dolphin. They will fuck dolphins in their dolphin butts. Mm-hmm. Dolphins are not above some poop hole loop hole. Poop hole loop hole. So males have even been witness sticking their dolphin dicks in other dolphins blowholes. They'll fuck a blowhole. Not kidding about any of this. They are horny, horny sea wolves. Oh! Not sure exactly what their oral techniques are by the way. Weird, there wouldn't be a source going into great detail about exactly how dolphins blow each other. I tried to find that.

Starting point is 00:44:17 And, oh boy, I came across a video on a very disturbing porn site of a guy definitely blowing a dolphin. Holy shit, I tapped out on that. That was, that was too much for me. It turns out my curiosity does have limits. Speaking of porn and dolphins, though, speaking of too much curiosity, time for today's first sponsor. Today's episode of Time Suck is brought to you by Captain Whiskorhorns, pony play and porn, tax shop and salary been too long since a sponsor and episode. Howdy partners and funny writers.

Starting point is 00:44:51 It's here's your good buddy Tom Anderson, aka Captain Wiskarhorn. In an effort to be your most trusted source of any and all kink in the Quad State area. This week all Dolphin Play Gear and Dolphin Port in 75% off! We have Dolphin Dixhape Dildos, Dolphin Mass with mouth holes built for both human and dolphin penises. Dolphin sex suits complete with lube, jitter, and anal slits. We also have more Dolphin sex video titles than anyone else. Over twice as many titles as Don Dolphin, owner, proprietor, dog on dogs, puppy play,

Starting point is 00:45:24 make a store butt dungeon, Kim. We have new titles. Tough like Big Dogs and Blowholes, Dolphin Reef and Human Beef, two Dolphins One Net, Dolphin Tail 3, The Slit Fits. We also have classic Golden Era Dolphin porn as well, flipper fuggers, catch and so much release, porpoise push, and sea sluts seven, bottle nose buttsluts. So come on down to Captain Whiskor, and it's pony plan, pour your tax off its salary.

Starting point is 00:45:49 The water's fine and the dolphins are frisky. High-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o And obviously that that is not a real store. We are lucky enough to have plenty of real sponsors Since I've already brought the narrative to a Scraging Halt. Let's take an actual sponsor break Thanks for listening me to Zach's Nellis return to learning so much. You probably never wanted to know about dolphins Well, I did tap out on some disturbing dolphin porn videos I did want to learn more about their anatomy and my curiosity did lead me to also Google Dolphin dick And that also led me to seeing some shit I can never unsee. Proceed with caution on that search. There is a surprising amount of photos of Dolphin Dick's out on the web. Male dolphins have no mammary slits, but they do have a separate genital and anus slit. They get, they got sneaky little butts and they got sneaky sometimes not so little dicks

Starting point is 00:46:43 and balls. According to John C. Lilly's research, the testicles of the male are buried in the body, extending anteriorly from the genital slit on each side and are amazingly large. We have recently dissected an animal in which the testicles were 12 inches long, about two inches in diameter, and cylindrical in shape. The penis of a fully developed male is approximately six inches long with eight inches maximum for length. The base for and after is about four to five inches and the tip is only a couple of millimeters in diameter. Yeah, they get real, real skinny at the end. Another site describes it like this, they have a dick about the size of a human hand.

Starting point is 00:47:17 Size of a human hand obviously varies as does a size of dolphin peens. Apparently dolphin penis size varies quite a bit, just like with humans. Pretty funny to me. I think there's some dolphin micro-paints swimming out there, as well as some like well hung John homestyped dolphins. I ended up reading way more articles than we're necessary about dolphin genitalia and looks at all the anatomy charts I could find. And I just find it pretty fast. Penises, balls, vagina, butts, still dolphin titties, all hidden under their slits. But enough about dolphin genital anatomy for now.

Starting point is 00:47:48 It'll come up again later. But I won't get into the nitty gritty details of it quite so deeply again. Now right now, let's go back and focus on their big brains. Not only intelligence to make something able to speak a language, also how their socialization structure has evolved. After all, you only need to speak.

Starting point is 00:48:05 It's for someone around to hear it. If it's necessary to communicate what you need to do. A species intelligence is likely both a result of and a driver of how complex their social structure is. Dolphins generally live in small groups and organize fairly complex group behaviors when mating and hunting. That's why they're smarter than most of their animals.

Starting point is 00:48:21 When they stop to rest, they form type formations, with their groups, they breathe slowly, they have a ton of social behaviors, breeding, playing, showing aggression, rubbing, just some of them. This level of socialization requires more communication skills and say like a frog, right? They doesn't have to work with other frogs to hunt flies.

Starting point is 00:48:37 Dolphins advanced communication skills have played a big role in how they've survived and thrived as a species. Within their traveling groups, they use squeaks, whistles and clicks to communicate with each other. Similar to bats, dolphins use the biological sonar known as echolocation to detect various objects around their environment by emitting

Starting point is 00:48:53 low or high-pitched sound frequencies. Next, dolphins time how long it takes for those frequencies to bounce off objects and return to them. Dolphins echolocation is so accurate, it can detect an object size. The direction is traveling, it's density, as well as its position above or below the dolphin. This technique vital to dolphins when vision underwater is limited because it helps them locate food, and you know, more importantly avoid danger. Pretty bad ass. It looks like some kind of super

Starting point is 00:49:17 power. Dolphins also communicate through a series of clicking sounds and whistles, each with their own unique vocal pitch. These differences in vocal pitch are essential to communicating within the pod, so dolphins can decipher who's speaking. Beyond echolocation, clicking and whistling, dolphins communicate with a variety of body language signals, including tail and flipper slapping and water, leaping out of water, bumping into each other.

Starting point is 00:49:40 Depending on the hardness and repetition tail and flipper slaps can serve as a warning to other dolphins of nearby danger or be a sign of playful communication. The dolphins can also use their tail and flipper slaps to indicate specific desires if they're hungry, if they simply want to play, the wonder lily thought these creatures might be able to learn English. Dolphins' excellent mimics, it's why they're great at places like SeaWorld. They can be trained to wave to a crowd or make a vocalization that resembles hello or

Starting point is 00:50:04 some other word, but also very naturally curious. Many aren't afraid of coming right up to a human, making them seem even more intelligent and communicative than they may be. How close to this combination of clicks, whistles, echolocation, and slaps come to approximating the languages complex as any of the human languages. Not totally sure. Scientists don't know yet the exact meaning of each of Adolfins' clicks, whistles, or body bumps. Exactly what these sounds in, you know, gestor to express remains largely undetermined.

Starting point is 00:50:32 Thus the answer of whether dolphins have a complex language or not does remain unanswered. The experiment at Dolphin Point did prove though that if dolphins are gonna talk, it's probably not gonna be in English. People are still trying to figure out what rules Dolphin language follows if any. Dr. Thad Starner, professor at Georgia Tech, and advanced computing and in advanced computing pioneer, developed chat. Citation or citation, there we

Starting point is 00:50:57 go. Citation, hearing and telemetry, a special underwater computer that can broadcast dolphins pre-recorded signature whistles as into the ocean of the push of a button. Currently being used by the world's leading dolphin scientists in an attempt to communicate with dolphins out in the wild. So far, chat has yet to receive meaningful responses back from dolphins in the wild though. While many researchers hypothesized

Starting point is 00:51:19 that many sounds and gestures dolphins make or indicators of some kind of sophisticated dolphin language, as a now, again, you know, let's meet sex. Can't speak it so we don't know for sure. Now let's meet John C. Lilly, the man who tried harder than most to bridge human dolphin communication. Who was John C. Lilly? In short, he was a brilliant maniac.

Starting point is 00:51:39 But let's give more details on that. John Cunningham Lilly was born on January 6, 1915. He'd die on September 30, 2001 at the age of 86. Let a long and fascinating life, one that started a lot of controversies, well, but he was born to a wealthy family in St. Paul, Minnesota, right across the Mississippi River from Minneapolis. His father was Richard Coil Lilly, aka Dick Coil. Old Dick Coil, but no one other than me

Starting point is 00:52:05 probably ever called him that. Definitely not his face. Dick Coil was the president of the first national bank of St. Paul. He's a big week. John's mother was Rachel Lenore Cunningham, who's family owned the Cunningham and a Hoss company, a large stockyards company in St. Paul,

Starting point is 00:52:22 two wealthy families marrying power couple. Lily had an older brother, Richard, Lily Jr. Another Dick Lilly and a younger brother, David Mayher, Lily, a fourth child, Mary Catherine Lilly, died in Invensy. John showed an interest in science in early age at just 13 years old. He was an avid chemistry hobbyist, supplementing his makeshift basement laboratory, his laboratory, as they may have called it, was chemicals given to him by a pharmacist's friend, students at his parochial Catholic grade school called him Einstein,

Starting point is 00:52:50 Jr. By all accounts, he was a huge fucking nerd. Good for him. Nimrod loves nerds. At age 14, he enrolled at St. Paul Academy, SPA, a college preparatory academy for boys, where his teachers encouraged him to pursue science further and conduct his experiments in the school laboratory after hours, which he did. He would also study philosophy at SPA. Daddy Lilly, old Dick Coil wanted John to go to an Eastern Ivy League University and become a banker, but John had different plans. Left Dick disappointed.

Starting point is 00:53:18 No problem disappointed Dick. He got a scholarship from the Californian Institute of Technology in Pasadena, California, set out to study biology. Also became the president of the ski club, member of the drama club. I lived a pretty damn dreamy life for someone going to college during the Great Depression. As parents were able to weather that financial storm just fine. Right, all right, all right. After his first year there at Caltech, you learn, excuse me, Caltech learned that John Lili

Starting point is 00:53:43 was from a wealthy family and they canceled the scholarship forced him to go to his father for help. Daddy Dick did help. Dick Coil simply set up a trust fund to pay his son's tuition and eventually became a benefactor of the college itself. John's dad would help his son financially for the rest of his days. And young Lilly would continue to draw on his family wealth to fund his scientific pursuits, some which extremely strange scientific

Starting point is 00:54:05 pursuits throughout his life. In 1934, Lily Red all dishucks Lee's novel, Brave New World, fictional dystopia portrayed in the book, really struck a nerve with John, and the story of the government controlled people via developments in reproductive technology, sleep leaning, psychological manipulation, classical conditioning. Only one person narrator the narrator, was brave enough to challenge it. This was enough to inspire Lily to give up physics, which he'd continue to study along with biology, and now concentrate full-time on neurophysiology, to study the nervous system. He wanted to know how the mind controlled the body, so that no one could control his

Starting point is 00:54:38 mind and or body. It was a little neurotic. He would switch career paths again soon to further illustrates how neurotic he was. He was engaged to one merry crouched at the beginning of his junior year, Caltech. Months before their wedding, he came down with the bout of nervous exhaustion, quote unquote, brought on by the pressures

Starting point is 00:54:57 of academia and his upcoming marriage. So what did he do to soothe his nerves? He took a random job with a lumber company in the northwest, just left school to go fucking chop down some trees. What the fuck? Now, I can handle this pressure. I need to take a little break. Clear my mind. I'm gonna take an academic sabbatical and just, you know, just go fossom to pine and the Pacific Northwest for a few months. During this sabbatical, he was hospitalized after badly injuring himself with an axe. You about cut off his foot. Of course, that happened. You probably shouldn't just randomly jump into lumberjacking

Starting point is 00:55:27 as a way to de-stress before your marriage in med school. If you have no experienced lumberjacking, maybe pick working at a fucking library or something. Work at the flower shop, bad groceries. Somewhere you can let your mind wander and not accidentally almost cut your foot off if you space out. His time in the trauma ward inspired him

Starting point is 00:55:43 to become a medical doctor. Now he began looking for a good medical school. 1937, old daddy Dick arranged for a meeting between John and Charles Horus Mayo of the famous Mayo clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Charles Horus Mayo, powerful friend, helped Lily get into Dartmouth Medical School and Hanover, New Hampshire. He graduated from Caltech with a Bachelor of Science degree, June 10th, 1938, and then enrolled in Dartmouth the following September. There, Lily became friends with Mayo Sun. Dartmouth Lily launched into the

Starting point is 00:56:09 study of anatomy, performing dissections on 32 cadavers during his time there. He once stretched out an entire intestinal track across the length of the room to determine his actual length, so clearly not bothered by a little gore. That sounds fucking horrific to me. During the summer after his first year of Dartmouth, he'll be returned to Pasadena to participate in an experiment with his former Caltech biochemistry professor, Henry Borsuch, this experiment, pretty crazy. The goal was to study the creation of glycosamine,

Starting point is 00:56:37 a major source of muscle power in the human body. And for the subject, they would use John himself. The experiment involved putting Lily on a completely protein-free diet while administering measured doses of glycine and arginine, two amino acids that Borsokipathasized were involved in the creation of glycosamine. The experiment pushed Lilly to extreme physical and mental limits to became increasingly weak and delirious as the weeks went on, results of the experiment confirmed Borsokipathas and Lilly's name was included among the authors,

Starting point is 00:57:05 making it the first published research paper of his career. So yeah, he had to get that first published paper the hard way had to be a human guinea pig on this to be one of the first instances of a lifelong pattern of experimenting on his own body to the point of endangering his health, which would certainly happen again at the dolphin point lab. During World War II, Lily worked for the US military research, the physiology of high altitude flying and invented instruments for measuring gas pressure. After the war, Lilly decided he wanted to pursue a career in medical research, rather than therapeutic practice, as was standard for Dartmouth medical students at the time.

Starting point is 00:57:38 He decided to transfer to the medical school at the University of Pennsylvania, which would provide him with better opportunities for conducting research. And he would meet some like-minded people there at the University of Pennsylvania, Lily Met Professor H. Cuthbert-Pezette, a protégé of British physiologist, JBS-Haldane, a BZET introduced Lily to Haldane's view that scientists should never conduct an experiment or procedure on another person that they have not first conducted on themselves. And Lily would wholeheartedly embrace this opinion. He'd already done that as we know. Bazzette took a liking to the young enthusiasm grad student,

Starting point is 00:58:09 set Lily up with his own research laboratory, while working under Bazzette Lily created his first invention, the electrical capacitance, diaphragm, manometer, electrical capacitance, diaphragm, manometer, device for measuring blood pressure. It doesn't seem to have patented something here that was used widely. If you did, you didn't make a bunch of money on it

Starting point is 00:58:29 because sources talk about, you know, using that family money for decades after this. While designing the instrument, he received electrical engineering advice from biophysics pioneer, Britain Chants, Chants introduced the lead to the world of computers, which was still in its infancy. So it did was at the forefront of a lot of emerging tech

Starting point is 00:58:44 surrounded by a lot of interesting minds. It was a big deal in academic circles, especially in counter-culture circles. Later on, I found a picture online of him in his later years with Timothy Leary, Alan Ginsberg, all lounging together, clearly very good friends. Weirdly enough, there's also a Manhattan Project connection with Lily, Manhattan Project, another former suck subject.

Starting point is 00:59:03 While finishing his degree at the University of Pennsylvania, Lily enrolled in a class entitled How to Build an Atomic Bomb. At one point in my life, I would have definitely taken that class for all the wrong reasons. Lily and several other students transcribed their notes from the class into a book with the same title. The director of the Manhattan Project, General Leslie Groves, attempted to suppress publication of this book, but was unable to do so because no classified data was used in writing the book. Finally, Lily graduated the medical degree

Starting point is 00:59:28 from the University of Pennsylvania in 1942, began as career as a conventional scientist doing research for universities in the government. 1951 he published a paper showing how he could display patterns of brain electrical activity on a cathode ray display screen using electrodes he devised specifically for insertion into a living brain.

Starting point is 00:59:47 I had expand the scope of his investigations from here and soon started researching topics you could call unconventional. Some evil scientists shit. In 1952, the neurophysiologist John C. Lilly accepted a position as the head of the section of cortical integration at the National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, Maryland. At the NIMH in 1954 with the aim of isolating the brain from external stimulation, he devised the first isolation tank. A dark, soundproof tank of warm saltwater, which substance could float for long periods in sensory isolation or sensory deprivation, like, you know, he invented sensory deprivation tanks,

Starting point is 01:00:27 which makes me think of Stranger Things. Dr. Lilly actually reminds me of the evil scientist in Stranger Things, Matthew Modine's villainous Dr. Martin Brenner. Lilly in a research colleague, the first subjects of this research, he discovered that the prevailing hypothesis that a lack of stimulation would cause a person to fall asleep was wrong.

Starting point is 01:00:44 Instead, he thought he discovered a psychedelic state that he described as a doorway into the universe that allowed one to escape its body. One soul can leave and one can clean one's karma from one soul and become a pure spirit. This is a quote from him. He is clearly part of the inspiration for Dr. Martin Brenner of Stranger Things. So begins his interest in psychedelics that will soon merge with an interest in dolphins and aliens and what the fuck?

Starting point is 01:01:10 Other work of it is that the NIMH included mapping, the neural regions that triggered pain, fear, and arousal in Macach monkeys and their brains. We talked about this strange, pretty fucked up and darkly fascinating experiment in the MK Ultra Suck. Lily came up with a method of, this is pretty horrible, but, you know,

Starting point is 01:01:26 sometimes scientists can be pretty rough, or science, excuse me, he came up with a method of pounding up to 600 tiny sections of hyperdermic tubing into the skulls of monkeys, through which he could insert electrodes into different parts of the monkeys' brains and electrically stimulate each part of the brain to determine what part of the brain was responsible

Starting point is 01:01:44 for pleasure, anger, anxiety, pain, fear, et cetera. It was a very monumental and important study. Poor little monkeys though, man, so many tubes taking out their little monkey brains. He even figured out exactly what part of the monkeys brain was responsible for an orgasm and then gave the monkey access to the switch, the control, stimulating that particular electrode, found out that the monkey would reward itself with near continuous orgasms, at least one every three minutes

Starting point is 01:02:09 for up to 60 hours a day. Holy shit, at least 320 orgasms a day. Hopefully all that coming helped make up for all the tubes, pound it into the little monkey's brain. Lillie also found out that when a monkey was given a switch to stimulate an electrode within the pleasure center of its brain, it would press the switch three hours, uh, uh, wait, for second, three times per second, sorry, three times per second for 16 hours a day, allowing them to just continuously, uh, allowing the monkey to flood its own brain with endorphins to the point of addiction and trauma. So not so good.

Starting point is 01:02:41 He melted those little monkey minds. His early work with dolphins will be equally brutal. And how exactly did John see Lily come into contact with dolphins? Well, Lily had been interested in connecting with cetaceans since coming face to face with a beached pilot whale on the coast near his home in Massachusetts in 1949, when he was 34.

Starting point is 01:02:58 The young medic couldn't quite believe the size of the animal's brain, began to imagine just how intelligent the creature must have been. At every opportunity in the years that followed John Lilly and his first wife Mary would charter sailboats and cruise the Caribbean looking for other big brain marine mammals to observe. As one does when out with their lady, sailing around looking for big brain swimming mammals to catch and then try to talk to. It was on just such a trip in the late 1950s that the lilies came across

Starting point is 01:03:22 marine studios in Miami. The first place in the world to have a bottle-nosed dolphin born in captivity in 1947, they'd opened back in 1938. Dolphins had begun to be added to, you know, or worse, they were first added to aquariums, beginning in the 1860s, but never really properly studied in the 19th century or even in the very beginning of the 20th century. Before research done at Marine Studios, fishermen on America's East Coast who were in direct competition with dolphins for fish, considered the animals to be vermin. They were pests known as herring hogs and seafaring towns. But in the tanks of marine studios, the dolphins' playful nature was endearingly on display and their ability to learn tricks quickly made it hard to dislike them. For the first time,

Starting point is 01:04:03 Lily had the chance to study the brains of live dolphins, mapping their cerebral cortex using fine probes, right, which he'd first developed in his work on the brains of those monkeys. While attempting to study their brains, however, he accidentally insphyxiaated several dolphins, leading to the discovery that dolphins cannot breathe, you know, unconsciously. If you put them under, they just die in the water. So whoops, sorry about trying to put you to sleep for a few hours and putting you to sleep forever dolphins.

Starting point is 01:04:27 Again, definitely the darker side of scientific exploration and experimentation here. Kind of a little harder to talk about in polite society. Lily took a little dolphin break here and continued exploring the brains of rats, cats, sheep, any other animal he could access and pioneered a technique of guiding a hypodermic needle directly into the cortex that didn't

Starting point is 01:04:45 require removing the skull or putting a creature under anesthesia, which allowed him to study the dolphin's brains without killing them. So that's kind of good, I guess. Now, he fucked with the brains of other animals. People don't care as much about because they're not as cute, like rats, and he tortured and killed a bunch of them. So he would torture and kill less dolphins and upset less people. If animals only knew how much their cuteness

Starting point is 01:05:05 played in the humanities overall concern regarding their health welfare uh... john also sought out weathers and c captains who told him stories about dolphins who you know dolphins coordinating to tip ships over dolphins uh... you know who had never seen a harpoon but seem to avoid it is only recognized it by description alone not sure how true all that is just anecdotal evidence to lily this was all evidence that dolphins for sure spoke a complex language. He thought it was narcissism, human narcissism

Starting point is 01:05:29 that prevented human beings from recognizing dolphins' language earlier. He wrote, we are severely handicapped in our efforts to measure the intelligence of individuals of other species than our own. We use inappropriate yardsticks derived from our own histories, primates, with hands and legs. On one occasion in 1957, the research would take a different course, which would change his and Mary's lives forever. In 1957, John was operating on a dolphin when the dolphin began to imitate John's assistant at the time, researcher Alice Miller. Maybe John thought this behavior indicated an ambition on the dolphin's part to communicate

Starting point is 01:06:00 with humans around them. If so, here was an exciting opportunity for interspecies communication. In his early experiments, John and Alice used an underwater microphone, called a hydrophone, to catalog the screeches, clicks, other vocalizations of dolphins, which Lily believed expressed more than just sexual desire or an alert for danger.

Starting point is 01:06:18 Lily would later write, these observations led to further studies in which we demonstrated, unequivocally, that each dolphin has two communication emitters, both in the nose, i.e. below the blowhole, one on each side. A right and left phonation apparatus is demonstrated in the dolphin's nasal passages. Thus, a dolphin can carry on a whistle conversation with his right side and a clicking conversation on his left side and do the two quite independently with the two halves of his brain. And that's actually true, which is fucking crazy.

Starting point is 01:06:46 The elephants can carry on two different conversations at the same time. A human equivalent would be having a verbal conversation while simultaneously having a different conversation and sign language. So they might not have a language quite as complex as ours or be able to truly understand and say English, but holy shit can they multitask better than humans. Also around 1957, Lily was also developing some ideas about extraterrestrials. And a few years later, someone would introduce Lily to LSD.

Starting point is 01:07:11 Ivan Torres, the producer of the first flipper movie, released in 1963, which would lead to the TV series flipper, a show that ran from 64 to 67, described as an aquatic lassie, a show about a really smart dolphin that can talk to people and help solve park crimes and all kinds of shit. Fuck yeah. Nice.

Starting point is 01:07:30 A lot coming together now. I loved it. The fucking guy who helped produce flipper, this introduced this scientist who's interested in dolphins to fucking acid. Dolphin studies, LSD, fast nation with UFOs. What could go wrong? While using his sensory deprivation tank and taking a fuckload of LSD, Lily started to believe that his life was governed by extraterrestrial beings. That makes sense. Good thing he's in

Starting point is 01:07:51 charge of experiments. By the late 50s, Lily started to believe in the existence of a hierarchal group of cosmic entities, the lowest of which he dubbed the Earth Coincidence Control Office. Echo. Lily stated that there exists a cosmic coincidence control center with a galactic substation called Galactic Coincidence Control within GCC is the solar system control unit, the SSCU within which is the Earth Coincidence Control Office ECCO. He wrote that there are nine conditions that should be followed by people who seek to experience coincidence, AKA alien contact in their own lives.

Starting point is 01:08:34 Holy shit, let me share these nine conditions with you. So understand what kind of dude we're dealing with now. Definitely need some alien background music for this shit. And again, you have to follow all nine of these conditions if you want to allow aliens to guide your life. First, you must know, assume, simulate, our existence in Echo. Two, you must be willing to accept our responsibility for control of your coincidences. By our he means Echo. He clearly thinks he's basically Earth Earth Chosen Prophet of this intergalactic alien federation.

Starting point is 01:09:07 This reads like some heaven's gate cult shit. This guy was a co-leader without a cult. Three, you must exert your best capabilities for your survival programs and your own development. As an advancing, advanced member of ECH' Ursaid Core of Control Coincidence Workers. You are expected to use your best intelligence in this service. Join my cult! Cult! Cult! You are expected to expect the unexpected every minute, every hour of every day, and of

Starting point is 01:09:36 every night. Okay, that was a LSD talking there on number 4. 5. You must be able to maintain conscious, thinking, reasoning, no matter what events we arrange to happen to you. Some of these events will seem cataclysmic, catastrophic, overwhelming. Remember, stay aware, no matter what happens, apparently happens to you. He is clearly super-psychologically stable. Sensory deprivation tank, not fucking with him at all. Continues.

Starting point is 01:10:05 You are in our training program for life. There is no escape from it. We, not you, control the long-term coincidences. You, not we, control the short-term coincidences by your own efforts. Do not think for yourself. Let me, I mean, let echo rule your life. I fucking, I don't know what you say. Seven. Your major mission on Earth is to discover, create, that which we do to control the long-term coincidence patterns.

Starting point is 01:10:29 You are being trained on Earth to do this job. Eight. When your mission on planet Earth is completed, you will no longer be required to remain or return there. Nine. Remember the motto passed to us from GCC via SSCU Cosmic love is absolutely ruthless and highly indifferent. It teaches us lessons whether you like dislike them or not Holy shit this guy is fucking crazy

Starting point is 01:10:58 Lily believed that these aliens were his guides Like he wholeheartedly believed all this Responsible for orchestrating any and all quincences in his life and steering him in certain directions. He was dropping so much fucking acid. Lily would call Echo one of God's field offices. They control our lives, though we won't admit it. In 1958, these cosmic beans convinced Lily to abandon the results oriented constraints of government funds for research, divorce his wife, and throw himself into researching dolphins. He had to research dolphins. He had to research dolphins. He had to divorce Mary. She stood in the way of dolphin glory. It's what Echo wanted. 1961 after three years of study and over one and fetamine fueled weekend. Yes, he also did a

Starting point is 01:11:38 fair amount of meth. So what? It helped him focus math liquid weapon John C. Lilly produced a book called man and dolphin When he was cranked out of his fucking gourd This was the first book to claim the dolphins displayed complex emotions They were capable of controlling anger for example and that they like humans often trembled in response to being hurt As well as being our cognitive equal really speculated. They were a capable of a form of telepathy And that was key to understanding extraterrestrial communication. That's of course.

Starting point is 01:12:08 Dolphins, communicate, via telepathy, as do aliens. Two things there has never been a whiff of proof of. This holy, wackadoodle book starts like this. Preface a prediction. Within the next decade or two, the human species will establish communication with another species, non-human, alien, possibly extraterrestrial, more probably marine, but definitely highly intelligent, perhaps even intellectual. An optimist prediction, an optimistic prediction I admit.

Starting point is 01:12:40 In this book, I have summarized the basic reasons for my beliefs, and presented some evidence for the validity of the prediction. In a way, this is a crude, elementary handbook for those humans who are interested in the realization of such communication. If no one among us pursues the matter before inter-species, communication is forced upon homo sapiens by an alien species. This book will have failed in its purpose. But if this accounts Sparks Public and Private Interest in time for us to make

Starting point is 01:13:05 some preparations, before we encounter such beans, I shall feel my time was well spent in the research here described. Yeah, that prediction was really optimistic. Sixty years after this book was published, we're still waiting to establish communication with another highly intelligent species. I can't, that's so, that's so. Listen, you guys, coming up quick, aliens are going to land or Atlantis folk are going to walk out of the sea. Basically, what are you saying there? The dolphins will, you know, let us know that they have his underground city,

Starting point is 01:13:36 they talk to the Lemurians, I mean, just weird shit. And this wild idea of talking dolphins, eager to tell us something, you know know or aliens landing and it all captured the public's the public's imagination the book became a best seller and of course this is an exciting idea thought of any animal being eager to figure out how to start talking to us share all this cool info that's exciting a lot of fantastical no chance of it ever happening in reality ideas are very

Starting point is 01:13:59 exciting uh... getting to race uh... unicorns against assquatches That's an exciting idea. David, and Patrick, children, unicorns, well, I thought to be quite fast, are not believed to actually race any other cryptids, and not known to be competitive. I can't recall a single example of a unicorn in Sasquatch being spotted together at all, let alone racing, David. And you were, uh, were you kidding?

Starting point is 01:14:28 I met the unicorns again. Yeah. Okay. All right. Cool. I'll just go wait in the hall and get, uh, go Chris. Uh, Lily also believed dolphins could teach us to live in outer space without gravity. That's a quote.

Starting point is 01:14:41 Okay. He proposed that they could be trained to serve in the Navy as a glorified senior. I, that at least seems kind of realistic, right? That application would catch the government's attention. Noted astronomer Frank Drake, one of the many people who read Lily's crazy ass fucking book. And Drake excitedly drew parallels between his own work in Louise. He's a bit nutty too. Drake headed the national radio astronomy observations, green bank telescope and West Virginia. He read Man and Dolphin in between doing observational research. Frank had spearheaded Project Osma, which was the search for extraterrestrial life through radio waves emitted from other planets.

Starting point is 01:15:16 So far Drake searched and turned nothing up. He needed a way to refine his search. He needed a way to communicate with whatever was out there once he found it. In 1961, Drake invited Dr. Lily to a meeting at the Green Bank Observatory in West Virginia, along with many of America's premier scientists, even a young Carl Sagan was invited. Their meeting led to the Drake equation, a formula used to determine the likelihood of a planet being home to alien life. But still there was a question, how would they communicate with these aliens?

Starting point is 01:15:41 Which led, obviously, back to Dr. Lily and Dolphin studies. That's one of the weirdest true stories I've ever come across. These scientists banded around the Lily's ideas, even made pins featuring Dolphins that they wore on their fucking jackets. They were all clearly dropping so much acid. They called their group the Order of the Dolphins. God damn these, I mean, I love it. These fucking nerds. They sent each other little coded messages to decide for half for fun, half testing their abilities to communicate and unfamiliar languages with Frank Drake's help. These crazy nerds secured funding from NASA's bio science program. The 60s. What a time to be alive. How much funding do they get? I can't find out. That info doesn't show up in the many, many sources. We found

Starting point is 01:16:23 that state that the project was funded by NASA With some amount of NASA money any amount is Fascinating and crazy Lily set up his lab in St. Thomas on the you know one of the US Virgin Islands The US Virgin Islands once colonized by the Kingdom of Denmark Norway. Sorry the Kingdom of Denmark Norway Who ruled it from 1754 to 1814 then ruled by the Kingdom of Denmark from 1814 to 1917, then bought by the United States consists of four larger islands. It's been a US territory ever since. Yeah, four larger islands, St. Croix, St. Thomas, St. John, water islands, as well as around

Starting point is 01:16:56 50 smaller land masses. Today, St. Thomas, one of the US's top vacation destinations, as the 2000 census. And I don't think it's changed much since according to Wikipedia some other places. That's a population of about 51,000 residents. Back in the 60s, it was a pretty sleepy little island whose economy was based mostly in agriculture and fishing. John Lili hoped that the same time it was to be the place where he could launch his water house Dolphin human hybrid living space. A model that he was sure would then be recreated all around the world. He just had this vision, humans, and dolphins co-existing, co-habitating across the globe.

Starting point is 01:17:31 What a fun thing to think. He actually thought for a while that humans and dolphins would just, you know, just live in some kind of mythical, Atlantis-like land creature, sea mammal harmony. I picture in Lily's LSD fever dream fantasy Dolphins putting on astronaut type suits filled with seawater inside robotic arms and legs just walking around amongst us People having dolphins for neighbors, you know, you fucking mad because you know you got out bit on this house from Dolphin family Parents get mad at their kids for you know dating Dolphins not dating within their species and shit People bitching about you know some dolphin getting a promotion of work so they were sure was going to them fucking flipper about, you know, some dolphin getting a promotion at work so they were sure it was going to them. Fucking flipper. I guess he's a supervisor now. Lily built a laboratory house in a workspace on the upper level, a dolphin enclosure on the bottom, tucked away on the picture-esque shore

Starting point is 01:18:12 of the Caribbean. He called the Alabaster Building dolphin point. Lily was then able to get three dolphins from marine studios over in Miami. Carl Sagan would even visit and go scuba diving with Lily's dolphins. His dolphins were named Pamela, Sissy and Peter. Each dolphin had their own unique personality. Dolphin Fucker, I mean, science type assistant person, Margaret Howe. We later write that were three dolphins, Peter, Pamela and Sissy, Sissy was the biggest, pushy loud,

Starting point is 01:18:36 she sort of ran the show. Pamela was very shy and fearful, and Peter was a young guy. He was sexually coming of age and a bit naughty. Ha, ha, okay. Peter and Margaret will of age in a bit naughty. Ha ha. Okay. Uh, Peter and Margaret will take this story to just about Max weird soon. Margaret Howe's or these assistant will get really invested

Starting point is 01:18:52 in her experiment with Peter. It gets to know her better. Uh, now known as Margaret Howe, love it. Her married name, Margaret was born on St. Thomas 1942, grew up on the island around Christmas in 1963 when Margaret was 20, uh, 21. She her her brother-in-law, uh, mentioned a secret laboratory near where she lived at the eastern end of the island where they were working with dolphins.

Starting point is 01:19:13 Well, when you live on St. Thomas, everything is nearby. The island is only 13 miles long because Mary loved animals. Dolphins amongst her favorite animals. She decided to pay the lab a visit early the following year. She drove out there, went down a muddy hill, saw a building on the side of a cliff, not knowing the events, you know, that would go down there would make her notorious celebrity when the counselor for sexual relationship with Peter would later be the basis for a story published in Hustler magazine. When that magazine had a wide circulation that included some real graphic quotes from Dr. Lily,

Starting point is 01:19:41 I'll read you a bit of that story later, holy shit. Mary had been obsessed with the concept of talking animals ever since she was a kid. Ever since she read Miss Kelly, a book about a cat who learns to speak with humans written by American novelist Elizabeth Holden, growing up she loves cartoons, she's about talking animals, you know, sure I think most kids do.

Starting point is 01:19:59 But then as an adult, unlike most kids, she wasn't ready to give up on the dream of talking to animals. She wanted to witness the breakthrough that would make that a reality. She wanted to help as a lab for showing up unannounced Margaret met the experiments director famous anthropologist named Gregory Bateson. I went Bateson Astor what she was doing there. She replied, well, I heard you had dolphins and I want a fuck one of them, Greg. I want that dolphin dick. Need it. That's the only way to get dolphin to speak English to fuck it six ways from Sunday. Count me in.

Starting point is 01:20:26 So be it. More than ready to do what's necessary. These panties can be on the floor in three seconds flat. Get one of those sea studs hard and stick it in my plus Greg. All right. Maybe she didn't say exactly that. But later on, it seems to be what she's done, what she did. She said, well, I heard you had dolphins and I thought I'd come to see if there's anything

Starting point is 01:20:43 I could do. Baton, who liked the Moxie Margaret display, walking into the laboratory unannounced offering her services, even though she had no educational and or work experience with dolphins at all decided to let Margaret watch the dolphins and make some observations. Find out how useful she could be. Very quickly, he realized she was good at it. Both Jean-Lily realized her intuitiveness was an exceptional offer her and an open invitation to the lab. Maybe they also realized there wasn't real high demand for semi-competent, free dolphin interns

Starting point is 01:21:11 and their weird fucking lab, not a big local labor market to choose from. The cumulative population of all the US Virgin Islands at the time was just around 30,000. Margaret's vision was of course approved by Lily, who took a bit of time away from thinking about aliens while tripping balls to be like, yeah, yeah, she'll do. She'll do nicely.

Starting point is 01:21:27 Echo approves. Unbeknownst to Margaret, Lily did actually think that Margaret's sudden appearance was proof of echo and action. He literally thought aliens had sent her to him as part of a plan to get dolphins to speak English so they could dolphins could then teach us how to use telepathy so we could communicate with aliens more effectively who would appear any day now. Holy shit.

Starting point is 01:21:48 So much acid. Margaret took up her internship with enthusiasm. She worked diligently with the dolphins, Pamela Sissy-Peter, through daily lessons. She encouraged them to create human-esque sounds and she began to fall in love with them. Mostly with one of them. She began to truly see them as her friends

Starting point is 01:22:04 and one as more than a friend. She started to feel guilty about leaving them alone in one of them. She began to truly see them as her friends and one as more than a friend. Started to feel guilty about leaving them alone in the lab overnight, Margaret convinced the lead to let her live in the lab, water proofing the upper rooms, flooding them in a couple feet of water. This way, human dolphins could occupy the same space. This way, she could spend 24 hours a day with her dolphin buddy, build some rapport, really get to Peter to see her as family, you know, so he'd feel comfortable speaking English to her. She thought she could build a connection with one of the dolphins. It would be, you know, so much easier to make progress teaching them, which she don't want to be fair to her does make some sense. And as they suddenly had some kind of breakthrough, she wanted

Starting point is 01:22:35 to be there to identify, expand upon it. Also, she had to have been dropping a fair amount of LSD as well. I mean, sources don't say that, but they do say there for sure was a bunch of LSD around the lab. I'd be shocked if she wasn't taken so much of it herself. To really try and progress in this experiment, Margaret chose to focus on one dolphin, primarily for the revamped, immersive language experiment, Peter. These two would coexist in the lab six days a week for almost an entire summer. Every seventh day, Peter would spend time in the enclosure with Pamela and Sissy. Make sure he, you know, remained connected with his dolphin buddies.

Starting point is 01:23:05 Once Margaret started spending a lot of one-on-one time with young Peter, she quickly realized that Peter saw her as more than a friend. Margaret would later say, when we had nothing to do was when we did the most, he was very, very interested in my anatomy. Fuck yeah, bro! Oh my God, she said, if I was sitting here in my legs with the water, he would come up and look at the back of my knee for a long time. That's probably looking at other places, too. He wanted to know how that thing worked,

Starting point is 01:23:29 and I was so charmed by it. Peter was more than charmed by Margaret's anatomy. And Adolescent Dolphin was certain urges Peter found Margaret to be, you know, specifically, scientifically speaking, how does fuck? And then soon thereafter, found her as down to fuck as well. Margaret told interviewers that Peter started to rub himself up against her body and by himself I mean his dolphin dick.

Starting point is 01:23:50 After a few dry hump sessions, Margaret decided to satisfy the sexual urges of the dolphin manually. It's dolphin hand job time. The experiment's getting a whole lot more interesting. Allow me to play some mood music for what Margaret said about how this experience began. It was just easier to incorporate that and let it happen. It would become part of what was going on, like an itch, just get rid of that scratch, and we would be done and move on.

Starting point is 01:24:17 It wasn't sexual on my part, sensuous perhaps. It seemed to me that it made the bond closer, not because of the sexual activity, but because the lack of having to keep breaking. And that's really all it was. I was there to get to know Peter, and that was part of Peter. Alright, now that we've met John Lilly, Margaret Howe, and some members of Peter species. Let's really examine all this in chronological order. Let's splash into the day super wet and more ways than one. Time suck, timeline.

Starting point is 01:24:52 Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time suck timeline. Let's begin a little bit before the formal start, the dolphin point, the lab experiments, back in 1959, when the government began its interest in using dolphins. In 1959, the US Navy began training dolphins and sea lions as teammates for sailors and Marines to help guard against threats underwater. Lily was not the only one trying to pull off some weird Poseidon Aquaman type shit. That year, a Pacific white-sided dolphin was acquired for hydro-dynamic studies to improve torpedo performance.

Starting point is 01:25:27 The aim was to determine whether dolphins had some sort of sophisticated drag reduction system, but the technology of the day failed to demonstrate the dolphins have any unusual capabilities in that respect. 1962, the animal's intelligence, exceptional diving ability, and trainability led to the foundation of a new research program at Point Magoo, California between Malibu and Oxnard, where a research facility was built on a sand spit between Magoo Lagoon and the ocean, the NMMP, the US Navy Marine Mammal Program. The intention was to study the dolphin senses and capabilities, such as their natural sonar and deep diving physiology, and to determine how dolphins and sea lions might be used to

Starting point is 01:26:04 perform useful tasks, such as searching for and marking objects in the water. A major accomplishment was the discovery that trained dolphins and sea lions could be reliably worked untethered in the open sea. In 1965, a Navy dolphin named Tuffy participated in the sea lab to project off La Jolla, California, not for a south of Point Me Co. uh, carrying tools and messages between the surface and the habitat 200 feet below. So that's pretty bad ass. They truly are so damn smart.

Starting point is 01:26:30 Tuffy was also trained to locate and guide lost divers to safety in 1967. The NMMP was classified and began to evolve into a major black budget program. Black ops located in Point Loma in San Diego, still going on today. Who the fuck knows what they're doing with dolphins right now? The program stated animal activities included protecting ports and Navy assets from swimmer attacks locating and assisting in the recovery of expensive exercise and training targets and locating potentially dangerous sea mines. There are five marine mammal teams each trained for a specific type of mission. These teams can be deployed at 72 hours notice by ship, aircraft, helicopter, and land vehicle to regional conflicts or staging areas around the world.

Starting point is 01:27:11 What the fuck? This is great. This sounds like the plot of some weird 80s buddy cop moving with animals, like Turner and Hooch, you know what Tom Hanks or K9 with Jim Belushi, but with, you know, fucking sea lions and dolphins and, you know, the Navy. Commander, I'm too old for this shit. Come on. Don't put me with the rookie.

Starting point is 01:27:30 You'll follow orders, McDaniels. He's reckless commander and he's horny. He's always so, so horny. Goddamn it, McDaniels. Skip his the best we've got. This program trained dolphins to await cues from their handlers before starting to search a specific area using its natural echolocation.

Starting point is 01:27:50 Dolphin then reports back to its handler, giving particular responses to communicate with a target object is detected. If a mind-like target is detected, the handler sends a dolphin to mark the location of the object by releasing a buoy, so it can be avoided by Navy vessels or neutralized by Navy divers.

Starting point is 01:28:04 Interestingly, mine clearance dolphins were deployed to the Persian Gulf during the Iraq War in 2003, and the Navy said these dolphins very effective in helping to detect more than 100 anti-ship mines and underwater booby traps. That is incredible. So that dolphin program, super successful, the dolphin point lab experiment, not so much. Let's back up to 1964. Early 1964, professional Dolphin Fucker, Margaret Howe arrives at the Dolphin Point Lab for the first time. Meet Gregory Bateson, like I mentioned earlier. Come on, Greg. Some of this will be

Starting point is 01:28:35 repetitive, but it's worth it to build this crazy, yes, narrative, unused to an unannounced visitors impressed by her provotto, right? Bateson advised her to meet the animals, meet Dr. Lily, ask her to watch him for a while, write down what she sees. Spider-Lack of scientific training, Margaret turns out to be an intuitive observer of animal behavior in Basin tells her she can come back whenever she wants. Lily approves at the facility, the labs, upper floors, you know, over hung a seapool that housed the animals. It was cleaned by the tides, where openings at each end in the pool shoot observe, sissy,

Starting point is 01:29:04 Pamela and Peter. Every day, Margaret would observe, Sissy, Pamela, and Peter. Every day, market would feel regret when people began to pack up and leave. She liked spending time with the dolphins. Thought there was more she could learn if she didn't have to go home at the end of the day. She's a different cat. If she could live with the dolphins full time,

Starting point is 01:29:16 she thought she might have a chance to teach them English. Again, she has no education or training with dolphins at all. It's just something she thinks. She approaches Dr. Lilly about filling the house with plaster or flooding. He agrees. Of course, he does.

Starting point is 01:29:29 He's fucking crazy. The aliens gave Margaret's request. Echo. He has Margaret's request to green light, you know, because Lilly talked to them in his sensory deprivation chamber, all tripping balls. The intense nature of the project immediately appeals to him. Margaret begins completely waterproofing the upper floors the lab So she can actually flood the indoor rooms, you know outdoor balcony with a couple feet of water

Starting point is 01:29:51 Which would allow her to live comfortably in the building with With you know the fucking the dolphins for three months in preparation Lily asked Margaret to read planet of the apes report her thoughts So real scientific homework here After reading it Margaret writes in a report why why why must there be a dominance in a subordination? Why must man take over? Why must the apes take over? Dr. Lilly, of course, shared her sentiments as did his alien overlords. They all thought that humans tendencies

Starting point is 01:30:17 towards dominating their environment was cruel and that they could prove other life was intelligent, it would be redemptive for the human race. Oh man, by the spring of 1965, the remodeling project is ready. Margaret and John ready for a trial run. The trial appeared last week with Margaret living in seawater near constantly.

Starting point is 01:30:33 As soon found the conditions in the house were far from ideal for both human and dolphins. Margaret slept usually in her daytime clothes, wet in a bed that was wet, with a dry quilt that would get wet, with the dry pillow that we get wet? Uh, there was fucking dolphin shit floating around the water. This is ridiculous.

Starting point is 01:30:49 It's lucky she didn't get really sick. Initially, she worked with Pam, who had impressive mimicry, but she was despondent, apprehensive around humans, possibly traumatized, but what they were fucking doing with her. So they made some changes. Coordinate off a dry area from Margaret, deeper water for the dolphin, more food choices, vacuumed, and deal with the dolphin shit, who would float around. They changed dolphins instead of Pam Margaret, would now work with Peter. At six years old, Peter ran bunches, he had trouble focusing, what enthusiastic and seemed

Starting point is 01:31:14 like a promising candidate. She would later write, I chose to work with Peter because he had not had any human-like sound training, and the other two had. Or maybe because he had a thing for him. Margaret would attempt to live in isolation with him six days a week now, sleepin' on a makeshift bed on an elevated platform. In the middle of the room, doing her paperwork on a desk, to spend it from the ceiling, hanging over the water.

Starting point is 01:31:33 Ah, that's all so fucking weird. On the seventh day, Peter would return to the sea pool downstairs, spend time with Pamela and Sissy, right, two female dolphins. First week in June 1965, the real experiment begins. Quickly Margaret begins to have second thoughts, you'd say. Line and bed, surrounded by water. At first night, listening to the pumps, gurgling away. She started to question what it was doing.

Starting point is 01:31:53 She later wrote, Hew and people were out there having dinner, whatever. And here I am. There's moonlight reflected on the water. This fin, this bright eye looking at you, and I thought, wow, why am I here? But then you get back into it. And it never occurred to me not to do it.

Starting point is 01:32:07 What I was doing there was trying to figure out what Peter was doing there. What we could do together. That was a whole point, nobody had done that. As Margaret settled into the first week of the experiment, she found Peter was eager to communicate. Peter responded enthusiastically in his first lessons. Margaret thought they were on their way

Starting point is 01:32:21 to significant progress and teaching him English. She used numbers, objects, names, ingredients to build a vocabulary. Their schedule went like this from the actual notes she took on the experiment or not, the actual notes that Dr. Lilly took on the experiment. 730, Ms. Howe gets up, washes, eats, 8 to 830, recorded lesson with Peter, 5 pounds of fish, 9 o'clock, Ms. Howe daily cleaning, vacuum, etc. 930, Ms. Howe does Daily Cleaning, Vacuum, etc. 9-30, Miss Howe, Does Feeding, Notes, Protocol, Check Workman. Excuse me, 10-10-30, Miss Howe and Peter Play, Involves Some Lessons.

Starting point is 01:32:51 11 o'clock, Miss Howe and Peter Outside Together, But Relaxed. 11-30, Miss Howe, Gets Lunch. 12-12-30, Recorded Lesson With Peter, 5 Pounds Of Fish. 1-2-30, Miss Howe, Sleep fun, right, read, relax. Okay. Three to three thirty recorded lesson with Peter, five pounds of fish. Four to four thirty times spent working with Peter, five to five thirty, Miss Howe works on notes, bills tomorrow's schedule. I think she's sneaking bills in there. I gotta get some bills done. Six o'clock, Miss Howe has dinner, six thirty games with Peter, visitors, reading, always with awareness of living with Peter.

Starting point is 01:33:27 And if day workers over, the two are still together, 10 o'clock bed, 10, 15, Peter wakes up, asks for a hand job. Is that us and give him a go to sleep? The Miss Howe, fucks Peter for a bit, for science. Of course, all the name of science. All right, maybe that last entry wasn't hers. And there are his about her.

Starting point is 01:33:45 In the lessons, Margaret avoided using colors as it wasn't known if Dolphin saw colors the same way humans did, only she only acknowledged Peter's humanoid responses, writing, I do not respond to his attention getting whistles and clicks, picture him cat calling. Come here, they mean nothing to me and I make that clear. And one recording she says, come right out with the English Peter. Don't even think in your own language, English all the time, Peter. My first goal she wrote,

Starting point is 01:34:11 will be to get him to pronounce anywhere clearly and know the meaning. This will probably be a time coming, this will probably be a time coming, and it's the hardest step. This is so ridiculous. She has no fucking idea what she's doing. No idea.

Starting point is 01:34:21 No training with animals, no formal education to pertains to literally any of this. His poor dolphin, he doesn't want to learn English. Right, his mother played with his dick, right? His dolphin squeaks, it probably worked like a champ on some hot dolphin babe. She'd love it. He has no idea what his human doesn't understand

Starting point is 01:34:36 his flipper pickup lines. Dr. Lilly did not interfere with the experiment or Margaret and Peter's relationship and said he mostly sequestered himself in his sensory deprivation tank. He'd installed on the premises. As one does, he spent a lot of time floating the darkness, trying to communicate telepathically with aliens.

Starting point is 01:34:53 Think about how this fucking maniac is your boss. This isn't the dolphin house, this is an insane asylum. Think about this, like your boss can let you like, so as Peter the Dolphin spoke in English yet, Margaret? No, that's very frustrating and disappointing. When I was in the century deprivation tank this morning, telepathically communicating with Echo, after dropping a large amount of acid, they assured me that you would get Peter to talk, Margaret,

Starting point is 01:35:19 so do it. Give yourself to their divine will. Remember the nine points by the end of the first month. Peter seemed to be making progress. He was vocalized now to the water more often than not. Margaret would write, he responds with a good 95% humanoid, only occasional delphinies, comments on the side. Like a delphinies, okay.

Starting point is 01:35:37 Despite the progress, what he was saying was far from intelligible. He wasn't learning English. He was just trying to parrot certain human-like sounds back to her. Margaret wrote, he has been practicing with the pronunciation of the letter M from Margaret. No doubt. And it is discovering that rolling slightly so that his blowhold is just under the water gives a satisfactory M effect. Pam has done exactly the same thing. Margaret was happy about this, but also concerned.

Starting point is 01:36:00 More time they spent together, Peter was starting to have more trouble focusing. She would write. He was hyper. He wanted to play play and then he would tangle himself in Margaret's legs and give her little nips and bruises About this Margaret wrote I look forward the days when Peter will yell at me rather than nip at me to show his displeasure Wasn't this pleasure Peter was going to puberty I find that his desires are hindering our relationship. I can play with him for just so long now and then he gets an arach And then he gets an array. And then he gets an erection and the lessons broken. Margaret wrote what was a solution. Margaret's first idea was to give Peter several day long periods throughout the week in the tank with Pam and Sissy, but him release some steam with other dolphins.

Starting point is 01:36:36 That would be the best idea, but she had a different idea. Allow me again to play some of that mood music for this. Margaret wrote in her journal, another thought I had on the subject is whether or not it would be best for the human to somehow find a way to satisfy the dolphin's sexual needs without another dolphin. This may strengthen the bond between the dolphin

Starting point is 01:37:03 and the human. Yep, this is not the only instance strength in the bond between the dolphin and the human. Yep, this is not the only instance of science experiments involving human animal sexual relationships. By the way, let's go in a little quick little detour. Surprisingly, there's actually multiple instances of human scientists trying to stimulate animals for science. There are two major published examples that we found here.

Starting point is 01:37:24 The first 1970 anthropologist, Francis Burton, professor of anthropology at the University of Toronto, published sexual climax in female Makaka Murata, the scientific name for the Rhesus Makak Monkey. Burton wanted to answer the question of whether female monkeys can experience orgasm or not. So as he placed the primates and dog harnesses and cat collars to restrict their movement, then the researcher put a penis simulator into the animals vagina with Vaseline as lubricant and moved it at a pace of two to five thrusts a second. She legit dildo fucked monkeys for science to find out how hard they may come. Ah, Burton was not able to def definitively

Starting point is 01:38:03 conclude that female monkeys could orgasm, but she did identify an excitement, plateau, and resolution phase. So, sounds like the game. The second case is that of a psychologist, Frank Beach, and his research on Beagles in the 80s. Yes, Beagles. Most of the work he did was behavioral, looking at the effects of prenatal androgens on sexual different, different, oh my God, different, oh Jesus Christ. Differentiation, different, differentiate, differentiation. It's not a word to say every day, at least I don't.

Starting point is 01:38:35 But some of his treated animals were unable to copulate and he wanted to know if they showed normal genital reflexes, even though they weren't fucking one another. So he masturbated the dogs and then went to preserve their response. So he's shit. Frank Beach jerked off Beagle's professionally. He was a professional Beagle jerker offer for science. He write his notes.

Starting point is 01:38:56 There are more recent, although less formal examples in a critically or in 2013, critically acclaimed journalist Daniel Berner published a book called What Do Women Want? Adventures in the Science of Female Desire. And in the book, he details a demonstration made by a grad student of sexual behavior researcher Jim Foss. The student picked up a female rat and with a tiny brush, stroke the clitoris, which protruded from the general tail, Jesus Christ, excuse me, which protruded from the genitalia, like a little eraserhead.

Starting point is 01:39:27 She stroked a few times, then put the animal back down in her cage, swiftly the creature poked her nose out the open door. She clamped her teeth on the wisely of the student's lab coat and tugged the woman's hand inside the cage. The student rushed to Ratskletaurus again, set her down again, and again the rodent, bit into the sleeve, pulling, communicating unmistakably what she craved. This went on and on and on.

Starting point is 01:39:52 Fuck yeah. The rat was like, hey, hey, hey, do that again. Ah, god damn, that feels great. I would do it myself, but these tiny little claws, they just don't work as good, is that brush. Hands-on techniques, some of those are employed every day in animal hydrogen-tree-related fields, right? It's how semen samples are collected.

Starting point is 01:40:09 Elephant semen, you know, collected with the help of a hand shoved up their large rears to stimulate their prostate. Should you wish to see it? There are YouTube videos available of a trainer at SeaWorld masturbating in Killer Whales, enormous pink dick, a man getting a handsy with a kidnus, foreheaded penis, a dog being jerked off by a primal looking middle-aged woman, and, you know, on and on and on.

Starting point is 01:40:28 So many different other animals. All the name of science, collecting samples, helping with breeding, you know, and maybe some people just like to, I don't know, jerk off animals. There's also at least one more published detailed account of a dolphin in human habit and ongoing sexual relationship. During the summer of 1970, not long after the dolphin point experiments, a young man, a Malcolm Brenner fell in love with the dolphin. He claimed that he had a consensual sexual relationship with the dolphin named Dolly at Florida land, now defunct

Starting point is 01:40:52 theme park, of course Florida. This is some serious Florida man shit. He first encountered Dolly when he was hired as a photographer for a children's book about dolphins was given free access to the park. Brenner claims that Dolly actively pursued him and that he gave in. He told reporters that this is a one when I come up with these rationalizations and excuses, Brenner's access to the park and unsupervised visits to Dolly's habitat gave him free reign to have repeated penetrative sex with the female dolphin. This dude now 70 years old still feels no shame over this. Seems to love to talk about it. He told a journalist, it felt like I was making love to the ocean itself.

Starting point is 01:41:35 Renegraffically detailed the encounter including the mechanics of maneuvering human genitals with the dolphins in open water in an autobiography, he wrote called Wet Goddess. Also the subject of a short documentary called Dolphin Lover. He wrote in his book, when it comes to making love, physical configurations prove a little tricky. Due to my pseudo-survex being too tight for penitration, so he's writing from the dolphins

Starting point is 01:41:59 point of view. So we float around with just the tip inside, clutching and thrusting towards orgasm until simultaneously coming, sharing the astonishing sensation of hot semen, displacing cool seawater in your cunt. Oh boy. Uh, Jesus Christ. Back to Margaret Howes, NASA funded dolphin love now. Well, Dolphin Fucker, Malcolm Brenner said in a recent interview, he'd fuck another dolphin. If you had the chance, it could must rub the energy. I'm not kidding. Margaret still alive at 79 recently tried to say, you know, there wasn't about sexual attraction with her.

Starting point is 01:42:31 I'm not sure I buy that. You know, she said that there's sexual somewhere together. It was very precious. It was very gentle. It was sexual in his part. It was not sexual in mine. And I mentioned that she said this earlier, sensual perhaps.

Starting point is 01:42:43 Uh-huh. Uh-huh. There's sexual relationship really began when Peter started to rub himself against her. The way Margaret put it, writing in her diary, I found that by taking his penis in my hand and letting him jam himself against me, he would reach some sort of orgasm, mouth open, eyes closed, body shaking, then his penis would relax and withdraw. He would repeat this maybe two or three times and then his erection would stop and he seemed satisfied.

Starting point is 01:43:12 Like so many boys, think that Jürgenoff Peter made him a lesson of an oesence. She continued, Now it has happened that Peter has modified his sexual rembunctiousness to a more humanized level. And no longer has to come to a dead stop when he gets excited. Peter's sexual excitement usually begins with the biting business and my stroking him. Now however, now however, when his penis becomes erect, he no longer tries to run me down and knock me off my feet.

Starting point is 01:43:38 Rather, he slides very smoothly along my legs. And I can very easily rub his penis with either my hand or my foot. Peter accepts either. And again, seems to reach some sort of orgasm and relaxes. We usually go through this three times or so before he quits and starts another game. Science just doing a little bit of science. No big deal here, nothing to see.

Starting point is 01:44:00 And as Margaret near the end of the experiment, the close of the summer of 1965, spinal to hand jobs, foot jobs. She was no closer to conversing with Peter than when she'd started. More than two months inside the house, the physical hardships were starting to wear her down. Several times during the period she'd write,

Starting point is 01:44:16 I felt the, or I felt the physically depressing effects of the situation, the point where I found myself actually crying. Small inconveniences suddenly loomed as very large and ugly. And I would find myself in a fit of self-pity depression. It was Peter who brought me out of it every single time without exception. Oh boy. Also towards the end of the summer together,

Starting point is 01:44:34 her sexual interaction with Peter had become increasingly normal at least to her. She said, I started out afraid of Peter's mouth and afraid of Peter's sex. It's taken Peter about two months to teach me and two months for me to learn that I am free to involve myself completely with both. Any inhibitions she may have had at the start of their summer together were gone. Some people around were

Starting point is 01:44:53 now would watch, you know, when she and she got Peter off, there would be an audience, other times they were alone. This is not a private thing, she'd write. Peter and I have done this with other people present, but it is a very precious sort of thing. Peter is completely involved. And I involve myself to the extent of putting as much love into the tone, touch and mood as possible. We do not have to respect his privacy, but we cannot help but respect his happiness.

Starting point is 01:45:14 Yeah, of course, it's happy. It's fucking beating him off all day long. And maybe doing more than that, if we'll talk about, their intimacy would ultimately define the entire experiment once it became public knowledge. When the 10 weeks specifically with Peter were over in this specific setting, Margaret and Dr. Lily had originally had planned the to resume the experiment for a longer time, but then Lily found himself struggling to figure out how to make that a reality.

Starting point is 01:45:35 He even relying on a few financial backers, primarily NASA, but without results proving that the experiment was the success, his funding was suddenly cut off, suddenly cut off. Meanwhile, word got out more and more about what they, suddenly cut off. Meanwhile, we're got out more more about what they were doing in St. Thomas, more more members of even the experimental academic and scientific community. We're starting to criticize him. If one, two, three said with very poor intelligibility by Adolphin is indicative of the giant brain animals ability to speak and therefore to learn language, what is to be said of a parrot clear cut if bird brain polywants a cracker? Furthermore, if the parrot is then given a cracker, have we established communication with

Starting point is 01:46:08 an alien species? One critic wrote, in the face of criticism Dr. Lilly turned to the substance he loved, LSD. This time wasn't just Lilly taking it. He began to give it to two of the dolphins, Pam and Sissy, in an attempt to make them more communicative. He'd write, as the LSD effect came on 40 minutes after the injection of 100 micrograms, the dolphin came over to me. She had not approached me before. She stayed still in the tank with one eye out of the water, looking at me in the

Starting point is 01:46:33 eye for 10 minutes without moving. As she's fucking tripping balls, this was a completely new behavior. I moved around to see if there would be any effect for my movements. You followed me right around the edge of the tank. I moved out of the room. The assistant moved into position, the same behavior continued. It is a very amazing change of behavior. She will now come within five feet of me instead of staying 20 feet away. But not closer to speaking English. And then despite Margaret's protest, Lily started giving 200 micrograms to Peter and would record his reactions for several hours, several hours. Whatever effect the LSD had on Peter seemed to be entirely internal. Margaret

Starting point is 01:47:04 felt powerless to stop the leaf from giving the dolphins LSD had on Peter seemed to be entirely internal. Margaret felt powerless to stop Lee from giving the dolphins LSD by the end of the summer, largely over injecting dolphins with LSD. Most of the staff resigned in protest. Now, Lili didn't have funding or staff support for a few more weeks. Margaret and Lee, uh, kept, would keep trying to figure out how to make the dolphin point lab sustain itself while Lili privately became more obsessed with LSD sensory deprivation and aliens. By the autumn 1966, Lily's interest in the speaking dolphin experiment was dwindling. The lab's director Gregory Bateson now also quit. The lab announces that they're closing. What would happen to the dolphins? Margaret's new job soon became the decommissioning of the lab and she prepared to ship the dolphins away to Lily's other lab in a disused bank building in Miami.

Starting point is 01:47:45 It was a far cry from the relative freedom and comfortable surroundings of Dolphin point of that house there. It's a Miami lab held captive in smaller tanks with little to no sunlight. Peter quickly deteriorated and after just a few weeks, Margaret got some terrible news. John called her to tell her that Peter had committed suicide for real. This is so fucking sad and disturbing. Dolphins are not automatic air breathers, like we are, which means that every breath is a conscious effort.

Starting point is 01:48:10 If life becomes too unbearable to Dolphins, just take a breath, sink to the bottom of the water they're in, and will not come up for another breath. They will just check out. And in this way, Peter died. What the fuck? I did not know Dolphins could do that. That's so sad.

Starting point is 01:48:24 That Dolphin, Dolly, that Malcolm Bren Brenner had sex with also did this a few weeks after their little love affair ended. Do not fuck Dolphins for numerous reasons. Also, Kathy, one of the Dolphins had played Flipper on the old TV series, apparently suffered the same fate shortly after filming wrapped up. Richard Wilberry, the man who had captured and trained the Dolphins for Flipper, fell into a lifetime of guilt and later would be arrested for trying to free other dolphins from enclosures. They were very sensitive creatures. No more fucking around with dolphins.

Starting point is 01:48:53 After the experiment was over, Margaret Howe stayed on the island, married the photographer who'd captured pictures of the experiment, a man named John Loveitt, a dude who had watched her fuck Peter, clearly wasn't bothered by that. Maybe turn on. Maybe they had a dolphin, three-some. Is that some secret they're hiding? I would not doubt it. Together they moved back into Dolphin House, eventually converted it into a family home and brought up three daughters there. Okay, in the end Margaret would look back fondly on the experiment saying, over the years, I received letters from people who are working with dolphins themselves. They often say things like, when I was seven, I read about you living with a dolphin, and that's what started it all for me. Hopefully she's not inspiring them to fuck dolphins.

Starting point is 01:49:30 Meanwhile, John C. Lillie would, you know, keep being insane. In 1968, Lillie published programming and meta programming in the human bio computer. Then in 1972, he published the center of the cyclone. Both books were about how he'd taken LSD, swam with dolphins, and locked himself in a deprivation tank. Sentry deprivation. He described the first time he used LSD in an isolation tank, I traveled through my brain, watching the neurons and their activities he wrote about these experiences. Lily would write, in the province of the mind, what one believes to be true, either is true or becomes true with certain limits. These limits are to be found experimentally and experientially.

Starting point is 01:50:07 When so found, these limits turn out to be further beliefs to be transcended. The province of the mind, there are no limits. However, in the province of the body, there are definite limits not to be transcended. I think that was his way of saying like, when you hallucinate, it's a kind of reality, I think. In 1978, John Lilly published his autobiography, which he described something called solid state intelligence. According to Lilly, the network of electronics engineered by humans will eventually develop

Starting point is 01:50:31 into an autonomous bioform. Since the optimal survival conditions for this bioform, low temperature vacuum, drastically different from those humans need, room temperature, aerial atmosphere, adequate water supply, Lilly predicted or prophesied based on his ketamine-induced visions now. Yes, now you do a bunch of ketamine that there would be an all-out war between these two forms of intelligence, human, technological. So basically the terminator franchise, SkyNet. So maybe he's not so crazy. He's kind of crazy. He also sounds like a dude who would be so fucking fun to party with for a few weeks. Also in 1978, more than a decade after the experiment, Margaret and Peter's relationship

Starting point is 01:51:08 with resurface, no pun intended, in hustlers, November 1978 issue. Written by Jack Owen Jardine, titled Inter Species Sex, Humans and Dolphins. The article was a soft core porn story, somewhat fictionalizing Margaret and Peter's relationship and making it super salacious and people fucking love this. It's a very popular, you know, issue of hustler. And you know, a lot of people wondered how fictionalized was it. There are a ton of quotes from Dr. Lily in this article. And before dying in 2001 at the age of 86, he never said that what was printed was not

Starting point is 01:51:40 what he said. He was never like, no, I didn't say that. Ever. What did he say? Last description here of Margaret and Peter's summer of love. Maybe it was a lot more than hand jobs. Asked about how sexual Margaret was with Peter, Dr. Lilly allegedly said,

Starting point is 01:51:58 sometimes she will be on her back on the bottom. Sometimes he will be underneath her. The positions are manifold. They meet Belly-to-Belley with heads out of the water. While standing on their tails, he wraps himself around her holding his flukes and his own mouth he can maintain an erection for around 20 minutes. Also written as, in mating, the two animals approach each other. Their bodies a few feet apart in the water.

Starting point is 01:52:19 Suddenly one aims his crimson spike at the other, drives it home with a graceful pelvic thrust, joined the genitals, the two curl around each other. Oh boy. When Margaret heard the story, you know, she heard that it came out. She immediately went all around the island, tried to buy up every issue of hustler, so no one around her could read it. But she wasn't fast enough. And the other story got out and there was nothing you could do about it. Meanwhile in John C. Lilly's world, Lilly lived in Los Angeles in Malibu until 1992,

Starting point is 01:52:49 at which point he moved to the Hawaiian island of Maui, where he continued research with dolphins and whales in the wild. Allegedly, didn't let anyone fuck any of them. From there, he continued traveling and also lectured in Europe, the US and Japan, and then John Lee died of heart failure at the age of 86 in LA on September 30th, 2001. Proof that you can do a lot of drugs and you'll like to wear shit with dolphins and sensory deprivation tanks

Starting point is 01:53:12 and still live a pretty long life. And then his remains were cremated and that will take us out of the timeline. Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely. The Dolphin Point Lab, what a strange piece of US history. LSD, sensory deprivation tanks, Dolphin fucking. But roughly 10 weeks from June to August 1965, the Dolphin Point Lab would, you know, become the side of one of the strangest experiments in scientific history.

Starting point is 01:53:47 When John Celilia, a man who believed extra trestials communicated with him while he was in a sensory deprivation tank, he got his young assistant Margaret Howe to live and confine him with Peter, a six year old bottle knows Dolphin, the object of the experiment was to teach Peter to speak English. A reality that John Celilia thought would come to pass within a decade or so after a pretty legit scientific career. There was some experiments with monkeys. Other animals were definitely cruel.

Starting point is 01:54:09 Well, he made a hard pivot inspired by a supposed extraterrestrial subconscious communication in fluency. He started studying dolphins in the hopes to figure out how to better talk to aliens. After accidentally exfixiating a couple of them, Lily with the help of NASA, you know, set up his lab at Dolphin Point, he thought that if he could bridge the communication gap, he would, you know, become the man responsible for issuing in a new era of interspecies harmony and possibly intergalactic communication to accomplish all this insanity. Dolphin Point was flooded with water redesigned to allow the young how and Peter to live, sleep, eat, wash, play together. And then they would

Starting point is 01:54:42 do more than play. After week five, Margaret noticed getting aggressive obnoxious. It would soon become apparent that going through puberty, needed some sexual release in order to stay focused. First Margaret thought about hook and peter up with some lady dolphins. That was the right call. Then she decided to take things into her own hands. That was a wrong call. And then maybe, you know, took some things or at least one thing in other places. Then when the 10 weeks were up and Peter was no closer to speaking English, John C. Lillie decided the answer was in LSD. So he started shooting up Peter, the other dolphins with a large amounts of acid.

Starting point is 01:55:11 The echo aliens told him this was totally cool. No one else agreed. LSD didn't help Peter speak English and with no funding, his staff resigned in protest. The larger world became more and more critical of the whole premise of St. Thomas Lab. Word got out. John was forced to abandon his weird fucking experiments relocate the dolphins to Miami where Peter tragically commit suicide john lily would then keep having to career somehow all margar would stay behind and say Thomas get married to the dude who used to take

Starting point is 01:55:36 pictures of her having sex with Peter and then live a pretty normal life after all that will communicating with dolphins in a human language at an advanced human level ever be possible. What about other animals? Maybe. Maybe. They probably won't be able to speak English like we do. As many creatures lack either the vocal instrumentation, brain pathways or cognitive development to be

Starting point is 01:55:57 able to use verbal reasoning like we meet sex do. But technology, it's always improving, always advancing. A lot of advances in AI, other tech, you know, allows us to hold out hope for all kinds of things, it's even possible now. Hopefully that tech someday allows dolphins to get some fucking counseling when they need it, holy shit. It's not focused on that part of today's episode. Maybe we should focus mostly on that dog on TikTok.

Starting point is 01:56:18 It can tell it's owner to shut up and take her for a walk. Yeah, not like that. Let's head now to today's top five takeaways. Number one, John C. Lilly and Margaret Howe conducted a 10-week-long experiment in summer 1965 with they tried to teach dolphins how to speak English. The experiments not work. They would did generate a lot of media controversy and even a write-up in Hustler magazine. Speaking of that write up, number two, around the fifth week of the experiment, Margaret Howe decided to let Peter express his sexual

Starting point is 01:56:49 frustration with her in the hopes that it would lead to greater focus in his lessons, or on his lessons. This evolved him rubbing against her, eventually jerking him off, foch-oves, maybe even actual vaginal penetrative sex. Number three, John C. Lilly was a fucking maniac. Though he may have started off as a legitimate

Starting point is 01:57:05 doctor, and he did. He soon became obsessed with LSD and sensory deprivation, which he came up with, I would somehow let him think in the dolphins, can help us meet Zach, communicate with aliens, and that there was such a thing called as a cosmic coincidence control center, a kind of alien bureaucracy that controls all coincidences and everyone's lives. Wow, just wow. I wish I could get my hands on some of the acid he was dropping. Number four, dolphins probably won't ever be able to speak English as we know it, but trying to get animals to communicate with us has been a scientific obsession for,

Starting point is 01:57:34 you know, a couple centuries. Chimps have shown a remarkable ability to use sign language. And even dogs have been trained to use speaking panels to communicate their needs and desires. Some studies think that we're not very far out from a way to communicate with some of our other cohabitants on this space rock. Wilder times, they be a common number five new info. More infamous bestiality. Because why not?

Starting point is 01:57:55 July 2nd, 2005, an unidentified man or, yeah, an unidentified man dropped Kenneth Pinyon off at the Inum Clock Community Hospital in Washington State, about 40 miles south of Seattle, where medical staff wheeled Pinyon into an examination room and then realized that Kenneth was dead. The subsequent autopsy by the medical examiner's office was declared that the 45 year old Pinyon died of acute parent paranitis due to perforation of the colon. The death was ruled accidental, but was it? A surveillance camera captured the license plate of the car that dropped Pinyon off leading detectives to a farm

Starting point is 01:58:30 belonging to 54 year old pervert, James Michael Tate. At Tate's trailer, the police confiscated a recording of Pinyon who was known to his friends as Mr. Hands. And the recording was a video of Mr. Hands being fucked by horse. They referred to as big dick. Turning out the farm was actually a hot spot for people who wanted to have sex with big animals. At the trailer, there were dozens of VHS tapes of men engaging in bistiality. Kenneth Pinyon was one of the ring leaders. Video taping the sex, distributing it to like-minded people. To get with the craze, the men would literally bend over and

Starting point is 01:59:01 wait for horses to angely penetrate them and to encourage the horses to do so they would put a type of scent on themselves the pheromone people used to get horses to breed then after some horse sex they play super weird games each other that involving their gapie anuses i'm gonna go ahead and kink shame here this is fucked up don't do this get some counseling if you think this sounds okay any level you you're not thinking right

Starting point is 01:59:24 pinion mr hands play the stupid game one too many times and literally got fucked a death by a horse. At the time, B.C.D.L.D. was actually legal in Washington and since there was no evidence of the man abusing the animals, the horses, you know, seemed to be enjoying themselves, no one got in trouble. The scandal was so salacious though, Washington State made B.C.D.L.D. a classy felony, punishable up to five years behind bars and a $10,000 fine shortly after Pinyon's death with the state senate voting unanimously the past this bill. If you want to learn more about the strange story of Kenneth Pinyon,

Starting point is 01:59:53 there's a 2007 documentary called zoo about him in the animal fucking culture he was involved in. Be careful out there, everyone. You only live once for sure. I know trying new things is great. I'm a super curious person myself, but you can take curiosity too far. Curiosity killed the cat and big dick killed Mr. Hands. Don't have sex with animals. Time to suck. Top five takeaways. The dolphin point experiment, NASA, dolphin sex, LSD, aliens. It has been sucked.

Starting point is 02:00:26 If you have to take a shower after this one, I get it. Thank you to the Bad Magic Productions team for all the help and making time suck every week. Queen of Bad Magic, Lindsey Cummins, Reverend Dr. Joe Paisley, and Zach Flannery. Directing this one together, thanks to Zach Flannery, the script keeper for tackling the initial research this week. Oh, I'm sorry, actually, that is incorrect.

Starting point is 02:00:45 Remembering now, I'm sorry, Sophie Evans. Sophie Evans, Rand Point on this week. Oh, I'm sorry, actually, that is incorrect. Remembering now, it was, I'm sorry, Sophie Evans. Sophie Evans, Rand Point on this one. Thank you, Sophie. Thanks to Bitelixer for keeping the time stock up. Run and smooth, Logan, the art warlock Keith, our creative director, Craternolda. Merch at BadmagicMarch.com and more. Thanks to Lizzie and Chantras Hernandez,

Starting point is 02:00:59 who runs our Cult of Curious Facebook private page. Currently Cult of Curious too. With her wonderful all-seeing eyes, moderators, and helps luging with the socials and things to beef steak and the mod squad keeping over 10,000 meat sacks happy over on discord next week we keep things interesting but also clean up my act a little bit. So much yaya coming up with a suck in Oregon trail. Another space is her topic winner winner winner heart tech dinner. The Oregon Trail was roughly 2,000 mile route to the west traveled mainly by American immigrant families looking to own land and

Starting point is 02:01:29 Build wealth in a new place. They faced hardships many of us cannot imagine today extreme weather with no modern, you know winter coats no Columbia jackets. I kind of shit river rapids with no guide or cool ass raft, cooler full of snacks. Starvation since there was exactly zero truck stops for fast food joints along the way. Disease since there were no vaccines for, you know, around yet, or modern medicine, accidents, conflicts with other immigrants, natives who didn't want their land taken for some crazy reason, all for the dream of starting a new life out west. The Oregon Trail, a symbol of manifest destiny, the idea that the US was destined by God to expand across the continent and civilize the lands out west activity on the trail peaked in the 1840s and 50s bringing hundreds of thousands of men, women and children to the western territories of Oregon. Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, and California. The gold rush brought thousands more, you know,

Starting point is 02:02:18 single men primarily looking to get rich beyond their wildest dreams. The trail was the path to the American dream for white settlers, property ownership, the potential for wealth, the expiration of uncharted territory. The Oregon Trail was a fresh beginning full of possibilities for some and an end of freedom for many others. Next week's episode will discuss the history and ideologies of the U.S. expansion from Lewis and Clark to the Homestead Act to the Oregon Trail itself, life on the trail, notable immigrants, effects of Westward expansion on native tribes and the country's growth in development.

Starting point is 02:02:47 A lot of cool shit, a cool history. Right now, let's head on over to this week's Time Sucker updates. First update today, some comedy. Tommy Trouble, having sucker. Adam Serella got whippled. Adam writes, I was just diagnosed with having a bout of gastritis, and I'm chatting with the gastroenterologist, and he makes the comment that he needs to perform a couple test to be sure that I don't have Whipples disease. Look on my face, most have confused him and then he was really confused when I started chuckling and he had to explain to me How serious the disease is I then had to explain time suck to him if you look at the symptoms

Starting point is 02:03:35 I'm pretty sure all of them are totally totally plausible for a Whipple drinker and then Adam included a link to the Mayo's description of Whipple's disease Fuck you and fuck your family, drink Whipple! The description is as follows, Whipple's disease is a rare bacterial infection that most often affects your joints and digestive system. Whipple disease interferes with normal digestion by impairing the breakdown of foods, hampering your body's ability to absorb nutrients such as fats and carbohydrates. Whipple disease can also infect other organs, including your brain, heart and eyes.

Starting point is 02:04:10 Without proper treatment, Whipple disease can be serious or fatal. However, a course of antibiotics can treat Whipple disease. Holy shit, Whipple can actually kill you. Luckily, a little antibiotics makes it totally safe. Fuck you and fuck your family drink with all. So Adam, I'm glad you're going to be fine. Also, glad you taught us something about Whipple. That is so funny to me. Now for more comedy, sweet sucker Cliff Johnson is new to time suck and behind on episodes. He doesn't know yet. There's a term for the tragedy that is befalling him.

Starting point is 02:04:41 Newmer's times, he's been commons lot. Lift rights. Hey, Dan, I'm new to podcasts in general. I love your show. Thank you. Love the organization research and deliver your topics. I never thought podcasts would appeal to me. Once old dude talking for a couple hours sounds born in pompous in my opinion, but my wife, Halusufina showed me the Fred and Rose West episode of my mind was blown.

Starting point is 02:05:00 I just finished the Jim Jones episode. I was driving to the store for dog food, hailable jangles, and my stereo Bluetooth is cutting it out as you're streaming through the Bluetooth going on a whimsical journey of vernacular banter about Jim but play Jones. Mid sentence, my stereo and Bluetooth connect as I park my car, windows down, put my car in park, exchange a glance

Starting point is 02:05:18 with a sweet old lady park next to me, and as we have a moment of seductive eye contact, you come to the radio loudly talking about Jim but play Jones but fucking his followers. My introverted ass maintain shameless eye contact and slowly rolls up my window and then I go on to laugh hysterically. This isn't the first time you've gotten me. You are the reason I now use headphones. Keep on sucking. Love the show. Don't don't just don't change a thing. Love it Cliff. Good on you for maintaining eye contact there. Impressive. I was going to be awkward anyway, so why not just double down and just really see it through

Starting point is 02:05:50 the end. So glad you're enjoying the strange journey you're now on. It makes me so happy. Super sucker Seth Klassen. Now needs our cult's help. Let's get this me sack of job. Seth writes, dear Suck Nassie, I know this is not your problem, but I need to vent. And you seem like a good listener and a great guy in general. I appreciate that you think that this previous year was horrible, not only for me, but plenty of others this year, not much better. I see hiring signs everywhere. I look, but still no job. I've only had three jobs my whole life being 33. I don't think that's bad. I've called walked into check on apps and nothing. My background is DUI in 2018, no drug use, prior military.

Starting point is 02:06:27 I don't know what's wrong with me, but it's financially killing me since unemployment has gone out. I'm on the verge of losing my house, and my spouse is talking about leaving, so they can't find work anywhere. I'm fucked. I don't know what to do. Truly, I truly, I'm sorry for once about the long email, but I need some advice from this amazing family of ours.

Starting point is 02:06:42 Anything will help. Thank you sincerely. One tire to the shit meat sack. Seth, first off, have you posted about this? And the call to the Curious Two Private Facebook group. If not, you should. It's a very helpful bunch. I would post your resume. I would ask for feedback and suggestions.

Starting point is 02:06:58 Also, there are a lot of great free resources out there just on the web. I'm including a link in the show notes this episode, available to download as a PDF, you know, through the Timesuck app, or you can just Google how to write a resume guide and look for the NovoResume.com in the results. That's NOVO, R-E-S-U-M-E.com, and then it's CareerBlog How to Write a Resume Guide. It's a very nice, free step-by-step tutorial.

Starting point is 02:07:22 Great looking resume can help a lot because it'll stand out amongst the many half-ass, lazily written resumes out there. A lot of people just won't put in the time, make sure there are no misspellings, no typos. Re-read that motherfucker like 20 times. Have it just be so on point, look and sharp, have others read it. Also in applying, act like you really want the job

Starting point is 02:07:41 but you don't need it, fake it a bit. Any sense of desperation tends to push people away in a variety of mediums. Confidence, even fake confidence, if you can pull it off, is attractive. People want to work with and hire confident people. They like being around. And again, hit up our Facebook group, try discord. There's also a variety of times like face groups, subgroups out there, seek help, and so, so many places.

Starting point is 02:08:04 If a hundred rejections, if a thousand of them lead to one great fucking yes, it's all worth it. Good luck, brother. Wishing you the best. Keep your head up. Hail them, not now for a crazy happy face killer suck update from kick ass sack Jake Nickerson. Jake writes, Hey, master sucker and all the bad magic. I got a late start on time suck, but I'm grinding through all of it. Started in March 2021 from the middle of TimeSuck with Chad Daniels and Sai Almanzon. Yeah, that episode of Middle of Summer. It's a great podcast.

Starting point is 02:08:30 I'm gonna be seeing Chad and San Francisco. It'll be, this comes out, I'll have already spent time with him. Hope I had fun there. Guess what I did with him. Anyway, I recently finished a happy face killer suck, and I would hope when you would do this ever since you did to crime, my dad was actually the boss of the happy face killer Every time that's crazy. Every time I've talked about it with my dad

Starting point is 02:08:48 He said that Keith Jeff Keith Jessperson was a stand-up guy and an extremely hard worker He never complained about having to go back out on the road sooner than he should have to I wonder why My mom on the other hand would say a little differently at one company barbecue the happy face killer came into my dad, told him, hey, Bruce, you have a pretty wife. My dad didn't think anything of it, just politely thanked him, moved on. About a half hour later, came back up to my dad, told him, hey, Bruce, you have a real pretty wife.

Starting point is 02:09:14 My dad found this odd, thanked him again, moved on. My mom said, Jess Person was Ineher the entire time. Almost like he never took his eyes off her. Now, this was before my sister or myself were ever born, but my older brothers were both running around that barbecue. My dad started driving long haul himself before Jess person was caught.

Starting point is 02:09:32 Both my dad and myself have worked for the same company, have gone into a lot of the same truck stops. He did, truck stops. Yeah, he did. This might be a long winded, but I had to email, but I had to get it out. I was extremely excited when you said you were doing this. I plan to be coming to space,

Starting point is 02:09:44 there's ones I catch up, but I still have two years of episodes to get through. Can't wait to see the Spokane Comedy Club on the 15th. Yeah, that's the coming up this week as this comes out. Hell is feigning triple M. Good boy, Bojangles. I'll keep sucking you so hard, Jake Nicherson. Jake Holy shit, man. Lucky you're here, maybe, right? It sounds like that evil fucker

Starting point is 02:10:00 would have liked to take in your mom out before you were conceived. Nuts that your dad was this boss and had some moments like that with him. Yes, stay safe out there on the road, man. Hope in sane stories like today's help keep you awake and alert out there. See, in Spokane. And now let's end on this. An awesome uplifting badass sucker has some encouraging words from one of last week's

Starting point is 02:10:21 updates, updates, some matters. He wrote that I didn't need to read this on air, but then we went back and forth and he did say I could, you know, share it. So, you know, more than just Cody could hear it. Super fucking sucker Keith Billman writes, hey, Dan, first of all, I'd like to say I'm a huge fan of your comedy and all 357 of your podcast. Thank you. The reason I'm writing you is regarding the Marine Cody S from the Alcatraz episode. Not necessary to read my message on air, but if you could get Cody, my message, I would appreciate it. Cody, a little bit about me.

Starting point is 02:10:49 I was an infantryman in the army with the 82nd Airborne Division. I'm a combat wounded vet with deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan respectively. Hearing your message on the podcast, maybe want to reach out in some capacity. I just want you to know your feelings are valid and you should absolutely seek help to work through them to clarify your feelings are valid as in they are not trivial. I want you to recognize that you are part of such a small percentage of the population that has served our country. But that being said, you are not inferior to those that have been deployed in any way.

Starting point is 02:11:15 You are a marine. You have the training and skills had you deployed. You would have done great. You are part of a brotherhood regardless of deployment status and you are a badass. Just based on the message you sent in, I can tell you are a good person. I would stand by your side and combat any day. We have never met, but we are brothers. Sorry for rambling, but I hope this message gives you a little clarity at the very least.

Starting point is 02:11:35 Take care. Talk to the VA. Work through these things. Your mental health is important. Your fellow veteran sucker, Keith. And fuck you, Keith. Good on you. We're taking the time to give Cody a message

Starting point is 02:11:45 I am not qualified to give him. Give him a good face and humanity. The world's full of so much more than serial killers and, you know, dolphin fuckers. Take care of yourself, Cody. You are worth it. And thank you again, Keith. Thanks, everybody.

Starting point is 02:11:59 Keep on, everyone. Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. Thanks, careful list of this bad magic production's podcast, Meat Sex. Please, please, please. Don't fucking eat it off in this week. They don't like it. Well, I mean, you know, the time maybe they do kind of like it.

Starting point is 02:12:19 But they get so sad when you have to break up, not worth it. Stay out of the water. Stay out of horses, keep horses out of you. Don't give any beagles, any naughty no-no touches. Don't worry about, you know, guerrilla want to see your nipples, and just keep on sucking. And magic productions.

Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 265 - The Dolphin Point Experiment: LSD, Aliens, NASA, and Dolphin Sex

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