Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 301 - The DC Sniper Attacks: A Cult of Two

Episode Date: June 20, 2022

In October of 2002, the DC Snipers terrorized residents of Washington DC, Virginia, and Maryland for three weeks. During that time, people lived in constant fear that they’d be killed - shot down - while in the midst of doing normally safe and benign daily activities like pumping gas, waiting for the bus, or even just walking across a parking lot to do some shopping. In total, ten people would be murdered, three people were critically injured, and others would be randomly shot at. Hundreds of FBI agents and local police officers would work this case before it was over. They were desperate to catch the man who was dubbed the DC Sniper or Beltway Sniper by the media. Except it wasn’t one man.  Investigators were looking for a lone, white, male gunman. They had no idea how wrong their profile was. When it was all over, 41-year-old John Muhammad and 17-year-old Lee Boyd Malvo - both black - would be arrested. And now the authorities had to unravel the strange father-son relationship between the two, and uncover their motive for their shootings. And that is a lot of what we look into today. Their relationship, more akin to cult leader and cult follower than it was to the normal killing duo dynamic. Hope you find this story as interesting as I do! Bad Magic Productions Monthly Patreon Donation:  The Bad Magic Charity for June is The Rainbow Railroad. We're donating a TBD amount. Founded in 2006, the Rainbow Railroad  assists LGBTQI+ people who face persecution because of their sexual orientation and gender identity. Rainbow Railroad's main goal is to help those who are in danger by relocating them to a safer country or a safe house. To get involved, learn more, or request help - go to rainbowrailroad.org TICKETS FOR HOT WET BAD MAGIC SUMMER CAMP!  Go to www.badmagicmerch.comWatch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/i3ik2ky5NFQMerch: https://www.badmagicmerch.comDiscord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard?  Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcastSign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits.

In October of 2002, the DC snipers terrorized residents of Washington, DC, Virginia, and Maryland for three weeks. During that time, people lived in constant fear that they would be killed. Shot down while in the midst of doing something normally safe and benign, some daily activity, like pump and gas, waiting for the bus, even just walking across a parking lot to do a little bit of shopping. In total, 10 people were murdered, three people were critically injured, and others would be randomly shot at. Hundreds of FBI agents and local police officers would work the case before it was over. They were desperate to catch the man who was dubbed the DC sniper or beltway sniper by

the media, except it wasn't one man. Investigators were looking for a lone white male gunman. They had no idea how wrong their profile was. When it was all over, 41-year-old John Allen Muhammad and 17-year-old Lee Boyd Malvo, both black, would be arrested. And now the authorities had unraveled the strange, father-son-ish relationship between the two and uncovered their motive for the shootings. Both the authorities and the public wondered, how could a man convince a teenage boy to become

a killer? It appeared that John Muhammad had turned Lee Malvo into his personal assassin. Lee became a killing machine who wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on any target John ordered him to take out. How was that able to happen? The answer is pretty sad. Lee Mavo had been abandoned by so many people, you know, so many different times throughout his life, combined with a powerful longing to be part of a family, to have a dad that loved him, combined with being a people pleaser, that he'd become very unusually desperate for love and stability. John Muhammad offered him everything he wanted, a home, a family, and a father's love. And John loved to control his environment and Lee was right for being controlled and

return for his sense of belonging. Lee was willing to do anything John wanted, even if that meant killing random people. He knew it was wrong, but to him it was also right because John approved killing allowed him to maintain and deepen his relationship with a father figure, you know, who would spend months brainwashing him. John exploited the power of a parents love to carry out a twisted revenge plot against his ex-wife all under the guise of helping create a new society based on nation of Islam principles.

DC sniper's case is a truly odd example of just how much someone can manipulate another person, how using love rather than fear as a means of control can have deadly effects. Also an example of how a skilled shooter or shooters can essentially hold an entire metropolitan area hostage. Today we'll discuss John and Lee's lives before they became intertwined. Their strange relationship, the 22 days of terror, they unleashed around the DC area, and the seven additional murders they were responsible for on their way to the DC area. All this and more, in a true crime, it's incredible what some people are willing to do,

just to get back at an ex-addition of Time Suck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to Time Suck. You're listening to Time Suck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Happy Monday, meat sack. Welcome to the cold to the curious. Hail Nimrod. Hail Lucifina.

Praiseable jangles and glory be to triple M. Hope you dad sacks had a good father's day this past weekend. Recording before father's day, hoping for sunshine. And enough warmth to get out on the boat for the first time this summer. That is what I want for father's day. Uh, such an interesting story for you today. Technically a serial killer tale, uh, a tale of two serial killers really, but their motives, the way their relationship worked, uh, so, so different

than any of the killers we've covered so far. The closest episode, this would probably, that this episode would, you know, the closest other suck that this suck probably is, I can't even think how to phrase that phrase. This suck is probably closest to the Columbine Mask of the Earth. That's how you phrase that in our catalog. But even that episode isn't really that similar to this one. It, I guess it

just stands alone. Like John Alamo-Homit, Lee Boyd, Malvo, just a very unusual pair of killers. So I was fascinated by this story. I hope you are as well. Couple quick announcements before digging in. New merch in the Bad Magic Store this week, just in time for the upcoming Fourth July holiday. You can head on over to BadMagicMarch.com. Check out the new Red, White, and Blue T and Tank. The design also available in to badmagicmerch.com, check out the new red, white, and blue tea and tank. The design also available in a cool two ton mug and wall flag. Cause why not? So check it out.

Go go full fucking Lee Greenwood this fourth. Speaking of celebrations, need to address the recent group of dirt bags that made national news here in Corte Lane for attempting to riot at a pride in the park, LGBT QIA plus support event back on Saturday, June 11th. I got a lot of texts. Messias asking me about it. The family were out of town. We were in Chicago when it happened. Thanks, by the way, to all the meat sacks who came out to the Davenport, Iowa and Chicago

shows to close out the spring touring. It was fucking fantastic. But not fantastic. What happened here? Anyway, 31 men, 31 really fucking stupid men. All the members of a white nationalist group called Patriot Front were arrested and quickly by awesome members of our local law enforcement who do a great job around here.

Those 31 dipshits, a bunch of strong pony boys traveled to near the event and a U-Hull trailer and then police shut them down before their dumbasses could do anything terrible. Most of travel to Idaho from other states, do you want to point that out? Outfitted with ride shields, shin guards, at least one smoke grenade, also had masks on, but the police made sure to take those off and expose them. I love that. There are cues of planning to incite a violent disturbance at a pride celebration,

and then they plan, apparently, allegedly, to continue riding along Sherman Avenue. We record on Sherman Avenue, this all took place place not that far at all, really, from the Stuck Dungeon. Only two of those idiots come from Idaho, neither from CDA, one from Genesee, and one from Idaho Falls, and two others do have ties to Spokane. I just want to say that their actions do not represent this area, at least not that people I interact with here. Lot of good people around here, trying hard to promote an inclusive tolerant atmosphere to reverse the narrative. Unfortunately, we

do have it feels like more than our fair share of medieval nut jobs who remind me more than I would care for of Westboro Baptist Church lunatics. Just want to use this recent episode on recent events. Excuse me to remind people where I stand on the side of acceptance and tolerance. You know, as does everyone else who works here, it's why we chose rainbow real road dot org to donate to this month. And if you choose to get pissed about me saying any of this, I don't know why you would, but if you do for some reason, take your email and shove it up your ass. Toss in the garbage.

Where are we? Where are you belong? In my opinion, if you're that against, you know, just fucking people want to love, with the one of love. We all have real problems in this world to deal with. Economic disparity under funded mental healthcare resources and curable diseases, natural disasters, our own impending fucking deaths, Polish people.

Come on. But seriously, we have a bunch of real scary shit to face, so why add to it by hating people just for being born of a different sexual persuasion? A persuasion that hurts no one, by the way. If you don't like it, well, I guess just don't participate it, unless you are of that ilk, then maybe just give into your fucking nature.

Don't keep choosing to be bothered by something though, that would just only bother you if you allow yourself to be bothered by it. It's irrational to be bothered by it. Yeah, so I just wanna promote some of my love and tolerance. Love my white meat sex, my black meat sex, all the colors in between. Love my male meat sex, female meat sex, my unsure meat sex, and love my straight meat sex, lesbian, gay, queer, transgender, intersex, asexual, and any and every other sexual preference

and evolves. Want to dope loving another meat sex. Love how you want to fucking love. Identify how you want to identify. Also love loads of Christian sex, Muslim sex, Hindu sex, Buddhist sex, Jewish sex, atheist, agnostic sex, and a lot of other sweet fucking sex. You let me be me, I let you be you. As long as you and I aren't taking advantage or exploiting or hurting anyone else, why should anyone fucking care? When it comes to one adult love and another

adult can't the world always use some extra love. So how about we all fuck off with the dumb shit involving being a hate-mongering bigot who just wants everyone else to only love exactly the way they love. We have gas prices and supply chain problems and shit to worry about. Hail Nimrod and Lucifina loves all of you beautiful bastards. Other than the fucking what is it called a Patriot front? Lucifina really doesn't care for your fucking ignorant assets so maybe stop being just a fucking dumpster fire of a human being. And that's it. That's all I got to say about that. So let's get to our story after I push this button. Just over a year after 9-11, the general population of the US was still on edge.

I remember that tension. The Washington Post conducted a poll on October 24, 2002. The day the snipers were arrested, asking DC residents what they felt the most threatened by. Sniper's 9-11 or the Anthrax attacks. The DC snipers did win at 44%, but 9-11 wasn't that far behind at 29%. Anthrax attacks still left a lot of people feeling especially vulnerable with 13% of DC residents

being more afraid of being poisoned to death and some type of terrorist event. Then they were of an active shooter randomly killing citizens in their area. I say shooter singular because that's what people thought at the time the poll was conducted. The time that poll was conducted the DC sniper had ended 10 lives injured three additional people in the area. None of the people had made the type of choices that victims of other serial killers have often made that have historically led to a lot less empathy for their murders.

DC sniper victims hadn't been sex workers and they're in the van of a stranger with no witnesses around. To even see who they were driving off with, they wanted addicted to hard drugs. They wanted to get an approaching or being approached by strangers while buying these drugs, perhaps alone in some poorly lit area. They weren't hitchhiking out by themselves.

They didn't even, you know, forget to lock their doors while sleeping at home. Heading Joe's gonna walk around alone in a neighborhood, particularly noted for violence. We're not closing down a bar alone, even sitting at a bar alone. They weren't engaging in any behavior that, you know, a rational person with deem is high risk.

They weren't doing anything that anyone could say, you know, well, you should have been more careful. That's probably more careful, you know, you think that just people, she's never leaves their houses. Just always stay inside of a locked house, never open the drapes, curtains, blinds, windows, nothing. The victims are doing everyday tasks, like cutting grass, pumping, you know,

cutting grass, yeah, pumping gas, shopping, or just like reading when they were killed. These students also occurred in busy areas full of people in broad daylight, where you think you should be safe, plenty of other people around. None of the victims fit a particular type. Some of the victims were young, some were old,

some were black, some were white, some men, some women. It felt like no one was safe. That's why this was so much scarier than, you know, anthrax 9-11, which were scary things at that time that I myself would think about and worry about. In the DC area, if you left your house, no matter who you were, you know, anthrax 9-11, which were scary things at that time that I myself, you know, like would think about and worry about. In the DC area, if you left your house, no matter who you were, you know, you just, you knew that you might get shot dead by a gunman who you would never even see someone. You'd only maybe just hear a millisecond before being gunned down.

You'd have no time to prepare, no chance to defend yourself. How maddening. How stressful. In response to these shootings, the FBI quickly dedicated 400 agents to the case and set up a tip line over 100,000 tips flooded in agents mapped out all the crime scenes behavioral analysts through together a profile of the killer. They set up a joint operation in stunning with Montgomery County Maryland Police Department led by police chief Charles Moose. That's a great name. The Moose chief moose moose on the fucking loose. You know that guy got all kinds of shit coming up on the force.

Officer, bullwinkle, sergeant moose knuckle. Come on, at least one person made that reference. Captain Moose knuckle's officer's struggled to identify and locate the snipers because of the randomness of their attacks. Each day, the shooter remained out on the loose. The more fearful DC area residents became. Businesses closed, schools in the surrounding areas increased security and cancelled all outdoor events and field trips

City League sports teams canceled games public events held in the city were canceled Kids had recess held inside for almost a month Residents DC in the surrounding areas became afraid to go outside their homes for any reason at any time. Many were truly afraid to let their kids play in the back yard. Many didn't let their kids play in the yard. You just never knew where the striper, uh, sniper, striper. You just never knew where the striper might be. Oh, the ad live. That was not planned at all. That just makes me think about how random that would be. It wouldn't be terrifying,

but just a different thing of like the Striper band was terrorizing like a metro area. Like you just lived in fear that you might walk around the corner and just fucking hear this, you know, full amps. They just have things set up outside, you know, I don't know, in your backyard, maybe upon your roof, you got to grab your paper

and just suddenly this. To hell. But anyway, you didn't know when your backyard, maybe upon your roof you got to grab your paper and just suddenly this But anyway, you didn't know what striper with Scott damn it sniper not striper the sniper would strike Ah, man, I'm trying to say sniper would strike my brain wanted to add those two words in the striper Activities like Mona Lawn pump and gas running errands became much more than simple chores or inconveniences. They were now life or death situations. People at gas stations literally started crouching down low behind their vehicles, shuffling back and forth. Like people would always be moving outside,

make themselves harder to hit. Some gas stations even covered their palms with large tarps offer some illusion of safety to customers. People were routinely zigzagging through parking lots to make themselves tougher targets. It was fucking crazy. Imagine how stressful it would be. I mean, it would be like living in a war zone.

Like sadly, many people live right now and areas around the world with active military conflicts or militarized insurgencies, right, where you just don't know what the fuck is gonna happen, where the bomb's gonna drop. How extra terrible for vets in this area at this time with PTSD, right? You come home from the Gulf War in Iraq, where you never knew if or when you you might be shot and then a couple years later, 10 years later, maybe when you thought it was all behind you, now you got a sniper fucking roaming around at home. Shortly after his arrest, the police came to learn or at least briefly believe that John Muhammad expressed sympathy for the September 11 terrorists and may have shot people out of anti-American sentiment.

But that's not true. As we'll learn, he had much more personal motives, driven by an extreme need for control. The DC sniper attacks ended up being called a nontraditional hostage taking situation by some law enforcement specialist. The attacks had all the elements of a normal hostage taking except for a quote static stronghold or crisis site. And instead of a few hostages, the whole DC region was taken hostage. I would have never thought of these attacks in that way. Had we not come across that info,

but it makes so much sense. Like once I read it, I was like, oh yeah, that's exactly what it was. Like since for weeks, no one knew who the sniper was, only that they kept, you know, just taking people out in the DC area, in a way that made it very hard to catch them. I mean, it was like they were holding

the entire area hostage, which is really scary to think about. It makes me imagine that scenario here in Coralane. As I worked on this section of notes for the first time, I stood at a desk just a few feet from a window in plain view of a commercial building next door. Someone on the roof of that building could have easily sniped me if they wanted to

for whatever reason. If I walk out into the parking lot to get into my truck, I could be sniped by someone on the rooftop, rooftops of a variety of buildings around here. Someone sit in the car from a variety of locations nearby. If I walked out the front of my building to head down the street, all kinds of places I could be shot from. Often, you know, I often jont downtown in the morning to get some breakfast or some coffee so many places they could snip me. And if I lived in a much more populated area, oh my god, so many more options.

I was just in Chicago and Boston with Lindsay and the kids and we stayed downtown in both cities. I wouldn't have felt safe going anywhere or having the shades up on the windows in our rooms. And either place had a sniper gun on the loose. Again, what a crazy amount of stress. Those two pieces of shit placed a you know entire city under Entire metro metropolitan area under you know numerous locations

Suburbs and things now northern Virginia magazine wrote in a 2019 article reporters got used to waiting for the next shooting Dropping what they were doing driving out to a crime scene that could be hours away and then do live television for an unspecified period of time with little or no information to report A lot of the day-to-day coverage with scene-setters, footage of people pumping gas on their knees, interviews with people who changed their grocery shopping habits to avoid walking to parking lots, canceled soccer games, and childless outdoor playgrounds, and then the traveling road show would set up a satellite truck in a different location 20 miles away. As the crisis continued, media professionals realized that their reporting was becoming part of the twisted logic behind stage of the murders. If the news media reported that all the shootings happened during the day, they would shoot somebody at night. If they reported all the shots happened during a weekday, they'd shoot someone on the weekend. Perhaps

most infamously, the media reported that no children had been shot and within a number of hours, 13 year old middle school student or a 13 year old middle school student, or a 13 year old middle school student was shot in Bowie, Maryland. Man, how disturbing. How terrible for those reporters and journalists, right? To worry that just doing your job was going to help get somebody else killed. FBI profilers initially thought the shootings were committed by a disgruntled middle class white man driving a van.

Excluding the disgruntled characteristic, they couldn't have been more wrong. The mastermind behind the shootings was a divorced man who lost custody of his kids, who'd also manipulated a teenage boy into becoming his right hand killing machine. Alright, now that the stage has been set, let's get to meet these two ridiculous assholes, find out how they met each other, and how they became the DC snipers in today's time-suck timeline. Shrap on those boots soldier, we're marching down a time suck timeline. On December 31, 1960, John Allen Williams is born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. His parents are Ernest and Mertus Williams.

Fuck yeah. Ernest and Mertus. Sounds like a couple. Born in the first few decades of the 20th century. Mertus is listed as Eva in a few popular sources, but the most credible sources do refer to her as Mertus if you're familiar with this story. So I'm going to go with Mertus. A lot of shitty sources out there about these shooters. I am noticing that more and more with the clickbait world we live in. A lot of content creators put way more energy into headlines and thumbnail images than they are into, you know, paying for a variety of solid newspaper subscriptions and archives to actually access credible information.

Just a lot of like, ah, close enough. Makes me a bit nervous. And then we have way too much disinformation out there as it is. I don't want to see it worse. See people either influenced by bad info or losing trust and sources in general or both more often Back that shit had now Surely after John's birth the Williams family moves in orlands because murderous has been diagnosed with breast cancer John's mom dies on either 1963 when he was two in 1964 when he's three or 1965 when he's four sources very quite a bit there They'll smooth that as we get farther to this by the way. I'm not gonna constantly be pointing out the discrepancies here

He and the siblings are raised by an aunt back in Baton Rouge I'm gonna say she died in 1964 since that's what his aunt said when interviewed by a reporter for Chicago Tribune in In October 27th 2002 article that does appear to be well sourced. A lot of interviews with family and old friends in that one. A lot of good quotes. John's sayings names are redacted in the published FBI reports about this case,

but a few national news articles reference him as being one of six siblings, could be younger brother named Edward Williams, older sister named Bessie, another sister named Orlan Marie, not sure what the names of the other two siblings are. I imagine they're glad to not be publicly associated with John. John sister Orlan shed some light

on a possible dark childhood they had, telling us to see an end reporter after her brother's conviction for capital murder. But before being sentenced, that our life was pure hell. We just got beat. I wouldn't wish the life we had on my worst enemy. She said all six Williams children were beaten with electrical cords, switches, hoses, pipes, fucking pipes, and by hand. John says, your best he added, we didn't know anything but

beatings. We were raised like animals. According to John's brother Edward, their uncle Felton holiday dished out a lot of those beatings. He worked as a guard at a Louisiana Reform School in the early 1960s, where he allegedly beat a 15 year old mentally handicapped prisoner to death. According to some family members, he hit that kid with a leather strap between 25 and 30 times and hit him hard enough to eventually kill him. Ed said that before Uncle Felton got in trouble for murdering a mentally handicapped teenager that also took a strap to John. Ed said that another relative once forced John to quote places hand on the spark plug of a lawnmower.

And then he pulled the cord. It said it would shock the shit out of him. And then they would just laugh in the art. What the fuck is wrong with some people? Like it really takes a special kind of piece of shit to do that to a child, to pick on a smaller, weaker human who's financially dependent on either you or other adults whom you're connected to, adults who are supposed to protect and care for the kid, and then to fucking do it for sport on top of them, for some laughs, for some giggles.

Come on, let's put on those show, grab some beer. Rapist, pedophile, serial killers, and child abusers, man of hell's real, hope there's a special place there for them. John's dad then left the family after his mom's death, so backing up a little bit here. How many deadbeat abs and fathers do we come across in our sucks on various murderers? And he would be primarily raised by two aunts,

and it sounds like a bunch of fucking, or at least one super shitty uncle, but two aunts, Addy Washington and Annie Jackson in Scotlandville, a once independent community and one time largest majority black community in the state of Louisiana. By the time John came around, Scotlandville had been absorbed into Baton Rouge, but we still predominantly black, you know, neighborhood slash community.

The neighborhood of Scotlandville is where John was born and raised and would, you know, live all the way through graduating high school, stay there for a few years after school. John's aunts would present a much less violent description of his childhood when interviewed in the fall of 2002. His siblings, as we heard, spoke of a lot of abuse at the hands of various family members, made their childhood sound like a living hell and a few other interviews, and then various family members when interviewed by the Tribune, all made John's childhood sound pretty delightful for a poor kid raised by numerous relatives, none of whom were his parents. Who's telling

the truth? Well, you know, who knows? Both versions have multiple people. I'll tell in the same story. So it's hard to say. He's on Adi, a maid walked from her house every day to cook, clean, and wash the kids clothes. Aunt Annie, excuse me, teacher moved back home and made important decisions regarding the kids, taking them to the doctor when they needed to be taken, seeing that homework was done, real group effort.

Eddie Washten and Cousin who grew up in the same house as John said, John was a little spoiled. So he would get into squabbles with the kids. He was kind of pretty and Annie took him under her wing. He was petted a lot. He had ice cream and we didn't. Did it still sound jealous? Well Eddie's still pissed about missing out

on that sweet ice cream and not getting in as many pets. I know what he means by the pets, but that verbiage put a weird image in my mind. Like a row of kids, I'll sit in like fucking catcher dogs, literally getting petted, told how they're, oh good boy, a good girl. But ones getting petted a little bit more than the others, you know, maybe they're growling.

Eddie said that the bigger kids slept on the floor, younger ones slept three to a bed in the four bedroom house. They didn't have many toys, but the few they had were carefully chosen. Interestingly, considering who John would become, no one was allowed to have a toy gun, also interesting that not just the older generation of the aunts, also some of the cousins

in this article are saying that their child who wasn't bad at all. So who knows, I am a little skeptical the timing of when some of John's siblings said that their child who was hell was before his sentencing and I wonder if they handed it up to try not to get in the desens. Anyway, Eddie said that John had a passion for tennis pancakes sharp

clothes. He told a Tribune reporter when he was a baby he would wake up at 4 a.m. crying for pancakes and his mother would get up and make them. He was so spoiled. I mean, can you blame him? Come on, it's fucking pancakes. You know, if he whales, mom flips them. Well, kid doesn't love pancakes. I still love pancakes. If I thought Lindsey would flip me some pancakes, if I will, mom flips him. Well, kid doesn't love pancakes. I still love pancakes. If I thought Lindsey would flip me some pancakes if I well-done enough, I might do me some whaling. When he was his teen, John and the cousin went slip to a window over nearby house

to make some waffles. First, I've ever heard of someone breaking an entering from waffles, but I get it, you know, because waffles are fucking incredible. Almost as good as me to pancakes. And there's a lot of, you know, waffle pancake debate going on. I'm a little bit more of a pancake guy, but I like a waffle.

Most of the time I'm gonna a soft, fluffy pancake move, but sometimes I'm gonna crispy, but still fluffy waffle mood. And I'm always in a chicken and waffle mood. Strangely never in a chicken and pancakes mood. Chicken Tender was Frank's hot sauce, some crispy ass waffles covered in butter, fake maple syrup.

Come on now, that's the best shit. Craving some Roscoes. Roscoes chicken and waffles now. John was a member of a Scotlandville High School's tennis team. He was a pretty good player relative said. Roscos is in the LA area by the way, a couple of locations. Just before graduating, he played in a tournament Louisiana State University. Though he lived near the predominantly black Southern University, I apparently never talked about going to college. Perhaps he would have liked to become a professional tennis player, because Nettty said, but no one in the family had any money for training. As on set at home, Tom was a jokester while he was in high school. He's always telling stories,

making people laugh. He's aunt Annie, the teacher, said she spoiled him, said he was, he was her favorite kid growing up and was still her favorite. Even after his capital murder conviction. Man, how shitty was the other kids in that family? If one of the DC snipers is your fucking favorite kid, she told the Tribune, he was my baby. He was such a loving chubby boy with cheeks and a beautiful smile. He lived in a Christian home and we tied in the right way. She did the John saying that children's choir at King David Baptist Church around the corner said that everyone was shocked when he converted to Islam while in the army in the 90s and changed his last name to Muhammad

adding we didn't like it. He was grown. What can you do? Yeah, true. What can you do? You know when your kids grow up they want to do their own thing isn't your thing? Most times you can just let them be who they're gonna be and accept it or you can be stubborn and watch a relationship with her. Uh reporters also interviewed old classmates in 2002. Nobody could really provide many details about who John was in school. He didn't really stand out. A lot of them said he usually just chilled out up on the roof, hidden the tops of trees, pantomime, point and invisible rifle, and other kids saying shit like sniper strikes again.

So, you know, no real red flags. Kidding, of course. No, he was described overall as just a regular student in his high school class of roughly 300 kids. Pat McAllister Liduff, president! McAllister Liduff, class president senior year, 1978. I said, I don't remember him doing anything outstanding. He was not a bully. He never collided in trouble. For the most part, he was pretty quiet. John joined the Louisiana Army, a national guard as senior year. His aunt Annie said, said she was proud. He was proud to serve, loved to wear his uniform. After graduating from high school, Mohammed worked as a welder for a few years in a local scrap metal yard and then also

at a shipyard, earned about 14 bucks an hour, which was a real good money, that time and place. Rough equivalent to about 60, 65 bucks an hour now. I don't get a good time. If you're a graduate, if you dated around more flash, you close, enjoy being a young single attractive man with some money in his pocket, purchase a brand new black, old, rebuild, cutless, supreme. Family members said he turned into a real lady killer. He was having a lot of fun at a high school, young cousin, Edward Holiday, too many fucking eddies in this family. Remember being 16, not long after John graduated, and he still didn't have a driver's license or a car. But then when he asked John, if he could borrow his new car

to go on a date one time, his cousin just handed him the keys without hesitation and letting borrow a nice sweet new pair of shoes to wear that night. At the holiday, idolize his older cousin. That he was the man, coolest fucking dude in town. 1981, as I mentioned a few moments ago, now 20-year-old John married a local woman

named Carol Caglier, who he may have gone to high school with, may have even been a high school sweetheart with, sources were a little unclear. Yeah, and also, you know, in still in the Louisiana Army National Guard. He was a leader described as personal and outgoing by one of his commanders. John intended basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, which is Missouri, and then trained it as a combat engineer. He was serving the 769th Engineer battalion. In the early 80s, John got into some trouble twice with the National Guard, once for failure to report for duty, second time for hitting an officer. Which I knew more details about the hitting the officer part. Early signs that this motherfucker was angry and unstable, or normal case to two

young dudes getting heated. Throwing some punches back and forth. When dudes settled a lot more shit with their fists and they do now Or maybe that officer was just a huge dick who knows Also about a year after getting married Johnny Carroll had a son they named Lindberg 1975 John transfer from Louisiana National Guard to the US Army and with station at Fort Lewis just outside of Tacoma Just south of Tacoma, Washington with the 15th engineer battalion His wife Carol and their new three-year-old son, Lindbergh stayed home. And then Johnny Carroll get divorced next year, 1986.

Right? Something was going on probably when they would move out there with him. Not long after that is X-Wife, when Soul Custier, their son, after Muhammad refuses to return the kid after some were visits to Washington. This is something that keeps happening to this guy. Lindbergh said his father was extremely controlling. And we'll testify years later at Lee Malvo's trial saying, if my mother had not been a strong woman, if my mother had not fought for me,

then it would have been me, rather than Lee Malvo in that car with John Mohammed in October of 2002. And I don't think he's wrong. Knowing what you'll soon also know, I don't think he's wrong at all. Before moving further along with John's timeline, let's now meet his future murder spree accomplice, protege, maybe, Lee Boy Malvo. On February 18, 1985, Malvo born in Kingston, Jamaica to unmarried couple Lesley Malvo, Mason and Una James, a seamstress. Kingston is the capital of Jamaica found a way back at 1693, got about 1.2 million people living there.

Noted journalist, Donovan Webster, working for Vanity Fair for this assignment, interviewed Leslie Malvo, Lee's father for a 2004 article in the DC snipers, Webster traveled to Lee's old stomping grounds near Walton Park in Kingston, learned about, you know, most of what you can now find out about Lee's childhood,

actually. Lee's dead Leslie worked as a Mason, any construction foreman, met Lee's mom Una in 1983 or 1984 when she was 20 and he was in his late 30s. They started dating, moved in together about six months later. And soon after that, Una became pregnant with Lee. Clearly, no one told them about how to soak, float, or loophole.

I'm gosh dang man. The one end up a far out, Mara to a young man. Lee was close with his father. poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll.

I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll.

I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. I'm gonna go to the zoo poll. Sounds terrible to me, but you know what? Lee loved it. Lee said in a later prison review that his favorite memory was getting ice cream with his dad. And then Leslie and Lee often spent their evenings playing dominoes with Leslie's friends. Leslie described Lee as a polite, manageable boy.

As a weird ass adjective to describe your son as when you only use two. Well, if you had two adjectives described your son would it be polite and manageable Don't mind the boy mine. He's cool. Mine. He's manageable Don't have to worry about feeding him or bathing him or not then he's a manageable boy mine. He manages It's fucking weird family the three lived in a nice rented home in Kingston until Lee was five his parents split up to the having incompatible personalities And just as you'll find out being pretty pretty terrible people I think don Donovan Webster described Leslie as relaxed and self-assured man who worked hard by day, relaxed at night,

described Una as a volatile, deeply Christian, often confrontational, highly intelligent woman, who was and remains fiercely committed to a life of personal improvement. Friends and acquaintances called her overbearing, a little crazy, and capable of overwhelming the conversation. So she sounds like a lot. And dad sounds pretty chill. Mom's ambitious, dad's a little more blue collar. I guess you know how they didn't make it. Those who remembered Little League described him as smart, pleasant, and polite, polite coming up again, a little boy who loved to make people happy by telling jokes. His cousin, Stacey Ann Nareem, would say, even as a boy, Lee was also brilliant, brilliant brilliance. And he always lived for everyone else. He was always concerned for you

before him. He was a good Christian boy. He was funny too. He could make you laugh with his mimicry and looks he could put on his face. When Lee turned four, his mom only got him accepted in a kindergarten at Kingston's Obistana Preparatory, Evangelical Christian school, little Lee wanted to be a pilot, who wanted him to be a doctor. He would obviously grow up to be neither. His child is about to really unravel. Before we go through that, let's back up and check in with John.

November of 1995, John separates from his wife, Carol. We kind of talked about a split. US Army goes into that as we went over. What we didn't go over was at 1995, John met his soon to be second wife maybe that's something to do with the divorce with the first wife milled green uh... she and john actually grew up in the same neighborhood but just had met until nineteen five when they were in their mid-twenties

she found out a month later that he was still married but continue to see him because he quote kept his promises and that's a fucking weird thing to say he kept promises uh... if you see behind his wife, is he a guy keeping a lot of promises? I mean, I think founder promises. I was intrigued by him keeping his word, she said he was the only man who said he was going to do something and did it. That was the attraction for me. All right.

Two years later, 1987, according to multiple sources, John will change his name from John Williams to John Muhammad and reportedly become a nation of Islam member. And that's according to numerous sources. However, FBI records state that he converted to Islam in 1992 and legally changed his name in 2000. We've talked about the NOI before, nation of Islam, they are a fucking hate group. They're one of the most like mainstream accepted hate groups, but they are a hate group. They're a black supremacy. It's the other side of the same coin is the KKK.

Veers into anti-semitism, conspiracy law, a lot as well. Jewish illuminati bullshit, not a fan. Lewis Farrakhan, their leader since 1978, says all kinds of anti-Semitic shit. You can find a variety of quotes. You can find videos of him saying this shit. Stuff like the Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man. He wasn't a great man for me as a black person, but he was a great German. Okay, that's a quote from Farrakhan from 1924. So that's what he's

into now. John was stationed, as I mentioned, in Fort Lewis, Washington, assigned there to the 15th engineer battalion, trained as a mechanic, truck driver, and metal worker. He also becomes qualified with an M16, earning the expert rifleman's badge, the Army's highest of three levels of basic rifle marksmanship for a soldier. This many hit at least 36 out of 40 targets, ranging from 500 to 300 meters away. Don't was a skilled marksman who would end up serving in Germany and Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War. Mildred will be interviewed in the first season, fourth episode, Mildred's second wife,

for the docu series Monster in my family, which we've referenced on a few other episodes, ran for two seasons of the Lifetime channel, focusing on relatives of serial killers and their victims. She said that John was charming and well-liked by everyone who knew him. Said he was a jovial person in the life of the party. He was a problem solver, he was a great person. That episode aired on July 22, 2015. Only six episodes in that first season. And we covered four of the killers they focused on one killer in episode, or two in this case,

John Muhammad, but also John Wayne Gacy, Keith, the happy face killer, Jess person, Robert Lee, the Spokane killer, Yates. Mildred also said that John was romantic, broader flowers, could make her laugh about anything. The two got married in 1988. John first told the FBI he was not married at that time. Then later said that he milledward married, they, on March 10th, 1988. John and milledward eventually will have three kids together.

John, Jr., Selena, and Talaba. Talaba will stay and monster my family. My dad was a great father. He was always there for his children. Finally, milledward additionally described John as playful and loving as a father, very involved in his children's lives. I mean, it sounds like he said to great dude, right?

Maybe not quite. I feel like the producers of that show really pushed for the narrative of a super nice guy who just fucking snapped at it and nowhere. But that narrative is not true. You'll find out soon that John changed his, pretty dramatically several years into his marriage with Milnerin.

As Milner herself said in a few non-reality TV interviews with some newspaper reporters, that he spirals, spirals, spirals over several years into the dude the world will know as one of the DC snipers. Check back in now with the other sniper, Lee Malvo. October of 1988, Lee's dad, Lezzy Malvo, is offered a job on Grand Cayman Island, Lee's three years old. Leszie will go help build a casino and hotel complex, and doing so, he's able to send home $300 a month

to help his family, and that's what he does for a time. He visits home as much as he can, but also a way for long stretches, you know, months at a time. It will become resentful of her husband being gone, and then she hears rumors that Leszie has a new girlfriend on that island,

and then he also received a raise he didn't tell her about keeping the extra money for himself and of course for his new lady Leslie will later deny seeing someone else behind Eunice back and also making extra money and not telling her According to him their relationships started to really fray when he was away in this remote job Due to uh, Una becoming paranoid jealous and constantly nagging him So who knows again, which one is telling the truth? It's, he said, she said, back to John now real quick, a nine-sighty-nine John transfer to Germany, joins the 864th engineer battalion,

working with heavy equipment and training as a sniper specializing in targeting civilian populations alongside a teenage psychic, or trains as a demolition specialist, or that, probably that one. First one, sound like something that would have come up a lot more specialist or that probably that one. First one sound like something that would have come up a lot more news coverage around this terrible story. Back to little Lee late 1990 or the 1991, Lee's father Leslie gets into a heated argument with

his mom Una and punch during the jaw hard enough to knock out a tooth. So maybe maybe a little bit more than a heated argument, a fight, domestic violence. Next day they have another heated argument where Uno attacks Lessi from behind with the machete. She swings at his right hand, misses, but does cut his wrist and he's left with a scar. Also more than an argument, source listed the punch of the jaw as an argument. I found that ridiculous and I added the second one. I qualified the machete attack as an argument just to be intending ridiculous.

Domestic violence now getting thrown back and forth by both parties. When Leslie returns to Grand Cayman Island after these two fights, Una moves out of the house, takes more than $11,000 out of their joint bank account, moves to endeavor a remote district in Jamaica's St. Anne Parish, almost exactly 50 miles from Kingston. Rents a house from a relative there

opens up a small grocery store. Leslie has no idea. He comes back home a few weeks later, a bit surprised, and I imagine more than a little upset to find out that his house is empty, his bank account is empty, and his son's gone. Pretty rough homecoming. He immediately starts looking for Una and Lee, and then finds them a week later, begs Una to come back. She says she doesn't want to have any more contact with him, and then forbids him to

see their son. Let's just go back home. Hopes it over time. They'll be able to fix relationship. This is according to him later. Then he learns that when Una registered Lee for his new school, she listed the father as deceased. So yikes.

This point not wanting to fight for the relationship with his almost six or just turn six year old son. Leslie for all intents and purposes, abandon him. This gives up. A little Lee overall seems happy and will adjust it to his new relatives, but he does desperately miss his father. Dewey Cornell is a value evaluating psychologist. His later trial will tell Vanity Fair one of the biggest components of Lee's personality

is that he was a teacher, a parent pleaser, an adult pleaser. He might have misbehaved or act out when away from adults, but when he was in their presence, he was a boy on his best behavior. He probably didn't want to lose his remaining parentage. I'd expect he was very anxious about that So how you know how fucking sad? Unus grocery store did pretty well shortly after their move Lee attended the local elementary school. Unumeda man named Noi Lawrence Farmer construction worker for a while they were happy together. Lee kind of had a stepdad Things seem to be going, you know, all right for Eun and Lee, other than Eun for bidding lead to be

able to see his dad, who knows how much more there is to this story. And then less than two years after moving in late 1992, though, power failure ruins the frozen and refrigerated foods in the grocery store. Eun doesn't have the money for a full restock, and she is forced to close down her business. Then she annoyed returning Kingston for work, which tells me he probably wasn't exactly killing it either. Lee's about seven when they moved, and his time in endeavor will be the last period of any real stability he'll have in his life. Going forward, he'll never have a permanent address

or a stable home environment. By the time Lee is only eight, he'll have attended seven different schools, by the time he's eight, by the time he's 15, he'll have been to a dozen different schools, holy shit. So much instability, I mean, imagine that. And as an only fucking child, so much harder on him than it would be if he had siblings

to be in the same boat with. Other kids to have consistency and camaraderie with about this. I mean, imagine have to start over 12 times. And less than 12 years of school, more than once a grade, you're the new kid. I have to figure out how to make new friends, how to deal with being friendless.

At least once a year, you gotta say goodbye to any friends you might have made. And a lot of these schools will be in different little countries in the Caribbean too. I mean, that's just, that's just no way to have a child. Meanwhile, back and up to when young Lee moved back to Kingston in early 1991, an adult John Muhammad still serving in the military.

John was deployed to Saudi Arabia for three months in 1991 as part of Operation Desert Shield, which then rolled into Operation Desert Storm. First operation of a build up of troops, second active combat. Don had the rank of sergeant was put in charge of 21 soldiers, and he did see combat. He saw death. He performed perimeter guarding, minesweeping, support. He was exposed to chemical agents and numerous soldiers in his unit would develop Gulf War syndrome. And Gulf War syndrome is a widely used term

to refer to the unexplained illnesses occurring in veterans of the 1991 Gulf War. People affected by Gulf War syndrome can experience fatigue, pain, cognitive problems, rashes, diarrhea, and more. According to Hopkins Medicine, it can be caused by chemical exposure and or psychological factors like PTSD. Before John left, he wrote down a list of instructions for

mildred in case he didn't come back. She said years later, he was only there for three months. When he came back, that strong, confident, jovial, happy man that left was no longer there. She said before he went to Iraq, he wanted to be a career soldier, but then he returned from his tour of duty in the Persian Gulf War, a change man. He told the black soldiers like himself were discriminated against. One incident in particular, apparently left him seething. He told his wife he was accused of tossing an incendiary grenade into a tent that he was then hog tied, his arms and legs cuffed behind his back.

Ah, seems suspicious to me. I mean, I've never served. Never been in the military, but why would he be randomly accused of doing something like that? Why would they tie him up like that if he hadn't done anything? I mean, I know that could have happened, but is it likely?

Just because of who becomes later, I have to wonder if there's a lot more to this story that he just never shared with Mildard. Might have left out some very important and possibly very incriminating details. Also told Mildard that once when the siren sounded to alerts the troops to a possible gas attack, no one gave him a gas mask. And by the time he learned it was drill, he had been humiliated in a manner that he would never forget.

Again, I just feel like there's probably more to that story. But who knows? According to Mildred, John never got counseling when he came back, even though the military had diagnosed him with PTSD. Mildred said in her interview that no one really knew what to do to help him. All those positive descriptions of John from earlier, nearly all of those applied to John before he left home for Iraq. She said John would now do shit like sit in the corner for long periods of time, lost in some other place in his mind, refusing to interact with anyone, or even make eye contact.

And they became verbally abusive. And that he allegedly just got fucking weird. For example, Mildred said she noticed that when she'd make a comment about something that she liked, something random, like a cup, a jacket, you know, just whatever. She would find it destroyed the next day. When Mildred asked John why he was doing this, she said that he replied, it's just a point of mind over matter. I don't mind it because you don't matter.

That's his quote, the fuck? That's some creepy and fucked up shit to say to somebody. Somebody just destroyed something of theirs, you know that they liked. John, why do you throw in this cup? I ain't broken now. I just told you yesterday, there's my favorite cup. I know.

It's about mind over matter, Milnerid. I don't mind. You don't matter. I don't mind, because you don't matter. Mind matter. Madden mind. And then just do some weird evil villain laugh. Milnerid said that Muhammad developed what seemed

like a dual personality. For the first, nearly six months, he was back from overseas. He'd go to work, and then he was home. He'd just sit on the sofa, not saying much, fucking staring off in the middle of the distance. Then all of a sudden sudden after those six months, he snaps out of it, now he gets real demanding.

Everything around the house has to be done with military style precision, he gets very controlling. Although their son, John Jr. had asthma and required medication, he else did, it's weird. Muhammad suddenly tried to convince him, he did not have that condition. That condition was for weak boys and no son of his was a weak boy. He told his son that if

he didn't overcome his asthma, he would never be considered a man. I gotta say, I grew with him there, right? Kids are too soft these days. 110% fucking love it. Love it, love it. That's some alpha dad vibes. Reminds me of when my son, Kyler, couldn't do a push-up. He tried laughing it off, you know, and it's laying on the floor. And I fucking kicked him in the stomach. Gotta hate him so much. I hate how weak he was. I was yelling him, get up, get up, you little bitch.

You wanna call me dead? You want me to call you son? You fucking crank out at least 10 push-ups with perfect form. Until then, you were nothing but a little fucking baby, and you will wear a diaper, and you will suck on a fucking binky, like a little bitch baby that you are That's why I wore a diaper for almost his entire eighth grade year And that's why he hates me now, but you know what worth it? So worth it that motherfucker can do 30 push-ups now less than a minute at any time moment notice and

I can tell people his my son again and I can love him again And I don't make him sleep in a little bitch baby crib anymore. Obviously, I'm not that true. At least I hope it's obvious. John is an angry crazy dude now. While all this is going on, Mildred will state that while he's great at work, she and John opened up their own auto repair business. At least successful for a while. He can be lovely in charge of customers.

Customers impressed by Muhammad's repair skills, the fact that he took his work so seriously, he wore surgical gloves, worked on their cars, but he's still crazy at home. That surgical glove thing, I don't know if that would impress me by the customer. Might just make me think he was nuts. He's taking himself a little too seriously.

Come on, you just changed the spark plug. What are you doing? Mildred also said that when he came back from combat duty, he got good, good, a plain mind games. She said he knew exactly what words to use to push your buttons. He studied everybody he was around. He knew what words to use in order to get you to do what he wanted. He would study your anger, how fast it would take you to calm down. He's always thinking, his mind never idle. She believed he came to view her as an easy victim and eventually as his enemy. Sorry, got a lot of sources after

that. On April 24th, 1994, John Mohamed was honorably discharged from the Army with the rank of Sergeant. He served for 16 years. Why did he leave then? Why not stay in a few more years? Get a full pension? Never made clear. He received the following awards over the course of his career.

Army Service Ribbon, National Defense Service Medal, Overseas Ribbon, Non-Commissioned Officers Professional Development Ribbon, and the Army Achieve officer's professional development ribbon and the Army achievement medal. Still living in the Tacoma area, he now randomly joins the Oregon National Guard and then promptly goes AWOL and is dropped from the roster. He's not doing well. I'm sure that factored into why he left the army. He's mentally not a great tip top place. Also randomly and briefly opened to karate school.

And then this business quickly fails probably because I don't think he knew much about karate. He's really not doing well. That's fucking weird. Now, reeks of mental illness. I've got a mildred. I put my mind over this matter. I now understand my destiny. I'm a sensei.

I've always been a sensei. In this time, I share my karate knowledge with the world. But, John, you don't even know any karate. God damn it, woman. You don't know what I know. You don't know what's secret. Classes God damn it woman. You don't know what I know. You don't know what class I've been taking. You don't know how many black belts I have. And then I picture him when he's saying that last part,

he holds up a regular leather belt he just used for keeping your pants on. That happens to be black as proof of one of his black belts. Let's take a break now from Captain Unraveling and check back in on his future protégé after we take a mid show sponsor break. It feels like a good time is any to do it. Thanks for listening to those sweet ass deals, you sweet ass sacks.

Let's get back to the story now. Back to 1994. John has left the military, has some serious untreated PTSD, is mentally unraveling, and we'll check in on Lee. Early 1994, Lee's mom, Una, and her boyfriend, Nois split up.

She lost his income now, and she is no longer making enough money to support herself and her son. That summer Una hears from a cousin, she can make good money, she takes a major job in St. Martin, another Caribbean island. A little nation, over 900 miles, due east of Jamaica, past Puerto Rico. If she brings her son, Lee would have to be enrolled in school there for her to get hired, and they would then be asked about citizenship so Una decided to leave nine-year-old Lee with some friends now. While she works over in St. Martin, let's fucking poor kid. Una has gone from 1994 to 1995, most of each of those years, seeing her young son only once in the summer of 1995 before school

started. Also, during the summer of 1995, Lee now 10 years old goes searching for his dad. And one evening, he finds Leslie playing dominoes at the inner city pub in Kingston. Leslie, related to recall, up the street, walking up Walton Park Road comes walking my boy, my Lee, like out of a dream. This is the first time to see each other in four years. How has that Lee had to search his dad out by the way, not the other way around? The two only talk for 10 to 15 minutes. Dad probably has to get back to us, you know.

It's fucking down when I was a game. Hey, Mom, I'm excited to see you a little, Mom. I would love to take you off. I can't do the fucking to make an exit. I'd love to take you for some ice cream, Mom, just like old times. But I got, I had it earlier and I lost it. I thought I had it.

I got, I got 50 bucks riding on this game, Mom. It's my turn. You understand right, fuck it. Another time, son. You take care of yourself. I'm a son. I'm gonna be my turn you understand right fucking another time son you take care yourself I'm a son. I'm be mean to tell you for a long time. I'm not actually Jamaican. I Have a Northwest. I'm from the Northwest. I'm from Idaho and that's why You know I've got a lay low because I don't have a citizenship here Oh, no, then I picture to him slapping a Jamaican dollar, you know coin to Sun's hand. It's good. Go get some of those grape nuts on pops

Then poor little league goes to the ice cream shop, finds out that one scoop costs two bucks. Want, wow. Lee told his dad that he just wanted to see him. Leslie asked where he was living if he could come visit to which Lee responded. No, I can't tell you where I live because my mood's spanked me. What is happening here?

Then Leslie just doesn't pursue it. Well, fucking coward, man. Lee saw Leslie a few more times at summer, but never for very long. According to Carmeda Alboros, a social worker who worked with Lee after his rest, he wanted to be rescued by his father. He kept hoping, hoping, hoping that his father would come and save him. He already had his little bag packed.

In the end, whether his father wants to admit that or not, he abandoned Lee, even after Lee begged to take him back. That is very hard thing for a child to accept. And the little bag being packed detail. It's just so, so extra sat. Leslie admitted to Vanity Fair that he didn't make more effort to have relationship with his son because, you know, he just didn't want to speak to Una. Okay. How chicken shit? He said, if he would have let Lee move back in with them, he would have had to see her on a regular basis. Yeah. That's fucking, how it works. You dickhead.

Way to put a Zego in some inconvenience above the needs of his son, what a awesome dad. Summer of 1995, the last time Leszy will see, Lee until 2003, when he comes to testify on his son's behalf during Lee's murder trial. So I guess, Lee does that. July of 1996, Lee goes to live with an older cousin, Simone Powell. Simone said that for the most part, Lee was, but you know sometimes was sad with drawn of course

Once told her I have no one I have no real family. Why me? Also said the one evening when they were preparing to move to a new apartment lead disappeared when they were load on some boxes When Simone found him she asked him you know what was wrong and he just shouted you just keep moving me And when Simone said I've never moved you before, leave replied, you adults, you always move me. I have no pet, no birds, no cats, I have no address. Touching base again with John now in 1996, that year, Milder decided with Muhammad's first wife,

Carol Williams, in a dispute about Lindbergh Williams, John and Carol's son, who was visiting his dad at that time. John wanted to leave town with his son, then 13 and just violate a custody agreements. A military said, I convinced him to put Lindbergh on the plane, send him to his mother. When he boarded the plane, John turned around like I wasn't there. I think that is when the hatred for me began. I had betrayed him. So John continuing to unravel, not getting the control, right? Not not controlling the wife around him like he wants.

One of this controlling aspect of his personality is what led him to some problems when he was in the military, too. Maybe a little too heavy, handy with soldiers he was overseen. Maybe he didn't like officers above him telling him what to do. Let him know it. By 1997, Milner had also converted to Islam. Some sources say that John converted this year as well. Sources are all over the fucking place

when it comes to when this dude converted to Islam. Literally a 10-year discrepancycy so he seems to have converted to Islam sometime between nineteen seven nineteen ninety seven it was definitely converted by nineteen ninety seven as her domestic problems mounted most of their friends at the mosque side with john she said he had wrongly accused her of having an affair and took the matter to the mosque she said as a result she lost her job as a secretary she said I was made to look as if I was incompetent and pathetic. He was telling me I'm not good enough that I was not a good Muslim.

I was not a good mother. He sometimes showed his desire to control and strange ways she said. Once he changes her home telephone number, then refused to tell her what the new fucking number was. That is absurdly controlling. God that's fucking that's so embarrassing. Okay great. Hey we'll just call you and we have your blood work results. What's a good home phone number?

Um, uh, John Muhammad. Excuse me. Uh, uh, John Allen, Muhammad. No, I, I just need your number, man. Uh, John, John has it. Please just call John. And what's John's number? John Allen, Muhammad. You just have to find him. He's somewhere in the city, I think. That is weird. Bouncing back to Jamaica, fall of 1997, Lee asked if he could live with his cousin Simone permanently. And mom said, yes. Oh, no, sorry, Simone said yes.

Simone said yes. So that's sweet. But Lynn badly. Pretty much everything ends badly for Lee. December of 1997, in a returns home from St. Martin She's done working over there at least for the moment She knocks on the door of Simone's house to see her son will he sees his mom? He shouts don't let her take me. She's not going to take me Yikes

Not the homecoming homecoming most parents parents would hope for well, Una does take Lee Simone can't legally stop her And he'll never live with Simone again. His unstable shit storm of a childhood continues. By the spring of 1998, Lee is living with other children in a student boarding house now back in St. Anne parish. His mom fucking left him behind again for St. Martin, right? Could have left him with family. Then he wanted him and he's like, no, no, I want you. And then J.K. I can put some in a little, you know, boarding school and bounces out of the country again. Lee becomes withdrawn, quiet at the boarding house. Yeah, I'm sure he's fucking depressed. Other kids, you know, get to go home, visit their family on the weekends, not him. Win some Maxwell is Lee's home room teacher.

She notices how sad he is to be left alone on the weekends. She asks, who knows if he can spend the weekends, if he can spend the weekends with her and her father, Webster Maxwell, who lives with her. Eunice says yes. Now Lee quickly develops a bond, you know, a fatherly bond with Webster Maxwell who lives with her. Who does that? Yes. Now Lee quickly develops a bond, you know, a fatherly bond with Webster Maxwell, yet another adult parental figure that fate will not allow him to stay with. Meanwhile in Tacoma, John closes the mechanic shop

at either 1998 or 1999. He said he closed his business because a builder was having an affair. He said he confirmed the affair by bugging his phone and recording the conversation. And that's what he'll tell the FBI. Maybe that happened, but I doubt it. Other sources are talking about he closed his business because you know, you went

fucking bankrupt because his business wasn't good. And maybe his business wasn't good because he was fucking crazy and getting crazy all the time. And now back to Jamaica, man. I think I got it again. Summer of 1999, when some Max will ask fortune-year-old Lee if you wanted to move in with them. Lee's happy, excited, yes, yes, he does want to move in with them. Maxwell then asked to legally adopt him. He's gonna have a stable home life, right? Yes, everyone's in agreement, let's do this. He hopes he's finally found the father, he'd always want it, but then fucking mama shows up.

Mama doesn't care what Lee wants. Both his parents, so fucking selfish. Unicalls from Antigua where she's now living and working says Maxwell needs to send lead to her right now. Males and airline ticket to Maxwell's house. And that'd be great if she had some stable life over in Antigua, you know, nice home for them to live in or something, but she doesn't. Before that, back to Washington, September of 1999, Mildred and John separate John moves out. Now shit starts to get really creep with John. Post-separation John starts using his key to sneak into the house middle of the night.

He'll do stuff like stand over his old bed. I'm just watch as you know soon to be x-wife sleep. Mildred pretending to be asleep one time while watching him walk from one side of the room to the other just you know Just watching her before finally leaving the house. She's so scared she goes to court. It's a lifetime restraining order against John. The judge thought Millard had reason to be scared, even told her she needed to get away from him, maybe move out of the area. So Millard files for divorce. John does not appreciate this. Millard said he twice threatened her life around this time. She said he warned her you're not going to raise my children. You have become my enemy and as my enemy, I will kill you. Then on the other occasion, he calls your mom and says that he'll kill, you know, Mildred.

Which seems even scarier to me to call someone's mom and say he's gonna kill their daughter. And then he takes the kids. March 27th, 2000, John tells his wife he's taking their kids shopping. He picks them up from school, tells you you're gonna take them to, you know, out for a few hours. I have them back at the house, you know, a few hours.

Few hours come and go, then John calls to say he's gotten delayed but i have the kids back soon yet she called for the airport shortly before he and the kids boarded a plane to the crib in island of ntika john insisted in court uh... later they had a lot of permission to take the kids away he did not you know uh... she he fucking kidnapped him and the court believe her which he said he kidnapped him but it wasn't gonna be easy to get her kids back right now she wouldn't see her kids again for a year and a half not until September 4th, 2001

how was John supporting his kids down in Antigua now where he's not a citizen? well it's strongly suspected seems pretty you know, definite that he was selling false ID cards other forage government documents and he just continues to spiral. Mildred said later in a documentary interview, I had to put my head to a pillow every night and not know where my kids were, I can't articulate the spiral. Mildred said, later in a documentary interview, I had to put my head to a pillow every night and not know where my kids were. I can't articulate that kind of pain. When law enforcement located her to kids, return them to her.

Mildred then secretly took them to live in Maryland. After she left some friends in Tacoma, would tell her that John was looking for. And then he was determined to get his kids back. Mildred would say that from time to time, you know, from the time, excuse me, he took their kids. The day he was a wrestler for the DC sniper murders, she didn't fear every day of her

life, that he would show up out of the blue and just murder her. But I'm going to head of myself. Two timelines about to connect now, back in up a bit, late 1999, Lee Boyd Malvo, moves 10 Tiga to be with mom, something he's not thrilled about. About a year later, October of 2000, John and Lee will meet. They run into each other at Zaza electronics in Antigua. Lee is now attending the seventh day Adventist school. His teachers and friends like him later report that he did well academically, but home life, you know, different story.

At one point, uh, well, going to school there, Lee was living in a single room shack made of fucking plywood. No electricity, no running water. And how fun is this? Mom had abandoned him yet again. Ah, way to go. Even Una, you selfish piece of shit. Way to fuck up your son's adoption.

Into a healthy and happy home, home he wanted to live in. So you could bring him to another country where you just promptly abandon him yet again. It really has two winners for parents. John and his kids lived a mile down the road from where Lee was staying. John hung around St. John's, the main port in Antica. Some of the locals knew him as the runner. Cause he would run every morning. Okay, make sense. John told people he served in the Gulf War,

true. That was true. Also told people he was a member of the Special Forces. Not true. Wanting everyone to think he was a bigger bad ass than he was. Sounds like the kind of thing of dude who doesn't know karate, but still open to a dojo would do. People later would remember noticing how good John was with children. Leonie Martin, the owner of Zaz Electronics, would tell Vanity Fair he had this power over them. I admired it. Everyone did. He gave the children discipline and they loved him for it. He was not harsh or unfair. It was discipline mixed with love and care. If they had done something wrong, he'd say, drop and give me 50. And the children would drop and do 50 push-ups just to please him., man, what a what a good father figure or

what a sad, weird guy who desperately wants to control people. What a pathetic dude who craves having power for others, but can't get it from adults. So it goes after young vulnerable others. What a great guy. John became a local hero. He fixed cars, gave medicine to sick kids, gave advice to anyone who needed it. Always seemed to notice when someone was having a bad day, it stopped and talked to them. Who knows, maybe he was trying to do it right at this time. Trying to wrestle whatever demons he was fighting. What a big deal, he tried to wrestle,

say off into better mind. According to Lee, he and John met at Zal's electronics when he saw John, his son, playing a Microsoft flight simulator. Reminding him of playing with a paper airplane with his own father. Lee said, a John, the man I met was not a monster. This was a guy who could have been anyone. Once you earned my trust, it was pretty much complete. Imagine it being a cult of two.

That's a good way to describe what's coming. Very, very small cult, the smallest. One leader, one follower, just enough people to do a lot of horrible shit. By the late fall of 2000, according to some locals, nearly everyone in Antigua knew that if they, if he gave John between $1,000 and $3,000, he could make you about what about any kind of forged document you want, forged visas, forged work permits, you know, and get him and give people into the US. He found a lucrative way to make money off the grid in the black market. In a December of 2000, John sold Lee's mom, Una, some papers to get her into the US. Una had heard that John was a guy who could get, you know, people of

Issa, she reconnected with their son again, right? She was constantly in an out of his life. And she and Lee went to John's house one day, Lee saw the same man from electronic shop. He now meets John Jr. who John called a little man, same nickname, Lee's dad had once given him, Lee later wrote in his diary, little man and I hit it off when we learn we both wanted to be pilots I made the girls laugh and immediately was made to feel welcome every day after this meeting I visited Mr. Muhammad when he was absent I spent time with the children most of you I would go on an errand to give him information or money I'd make whatever excuse I could just to be back in his presence

Plus I loved the vitality of his children They took me into their hearts as if they had known me for a lifetime. This fucking kid just craves a family so bad. Eunice new boyfriend to recently given her money to travel around to purchase clothes, household items to resell. Instead, Eunice now uses that money for the fake visa. I think she gets from, you know, John. Not for two fake visas.

Nope. Not one for her, one for, you know, baby boy. Just one for her. Her boyfriend had planned to open up a business and restaurant together, was even building a house for the three of them to live together in and Antica. Luna was not down with that plan though,

unbeknownst to him, she seems to be coming more and more of a terrible person all the time. After getting her fake visa, Luna leaves for the US. Tells her boyfriend, she'd gone to the island of St. Martin for a business trip, calls me a few days later to tell him, no, she's actually in the US, but, promise come back soon, but she won't.

She fleeced that guy, just used him also completely abandoned her 14 year old son. I fucking another time to go live in Fort Myers, Florida now. Uh, later, later, tell Vanity Fair, I always knew where my Lee was. I tried to telephone him. I didn't abandon him. All of these people saying these things about me abandoning Lee, they don't know. They're telling lies, lies. And I will clear my name, and they're going to have to pay.

Well, no one had to pay Dipshit, because you're a fucking liar to yourself. You did abandon your son. That's not like someone feed themselves a bunch of bullshit, rather than confronting the fact that they've chosen to be a terrible fucking person. Horrible mom. I hope Una's life is currently in fucking tatters.

Her end leaves Dad Leslie, you know, fucking both. With her mom now gone, Lee now moves out of her old boyfriend's house, the dude she'd fleeced, moves into a small shack with no running water that one we talked about. No electricity. He had no electricity because he couldn't pay any bills because he's 14, bit abandoned.

For a while, Lee goes back and forth between this shack and his mom's old boyfriend's house. This dude, given the alias of Thomas and sources, was a kind man who let Lee stay with him even after his you know, mom fleeced him. Thomas interviewed later and said that Lee was always welcome in his home. Also said that never like John Mohammed. Didn't like Lee hanging around that dude, but it didn't feel like he had the authority to stop him from spending time with John because you know, wasn't his guardian. So not everyone on the island thinks that this dude's a cool dad Late 2000 Lee becomes sick with dramatic fever. He writes his diary. I had a terrible fever

Oh, I'm sorry. No, this is not diary. This is this is a later interview It says I had a terrible fever my joints ain't it was recurrence of romantic fever. I contract as a child I was not able to get out of bed to call for help or go for food. My tonsils were swollen. I was unable to eat two days went by. I was in that condition, but I could not get out of bed. Then Mr. Mohamed came by one day, found the back door, slightly a jar, upon entering the Sami and bed, sweating almost elirious with fever, called his personal taxi driver, lived to me out of bed, carried me in his arms because I was too weak to walk, took me to the doctor, then to his place of residence, introduced me to Mrs arms because I was too weak to walk, took me to the doctor, then to his place of residence, introduced me to Mrs. Douglas.

I was fed with fluids, soup. He was able to give me medication within a few days, I was up and about, what a truly amazing, that was, he spent a lot of time ensuring that I was okay and never asked for payment. So now he's really invested in this too. Not long after this,

in January of 2001, Lee Malvo moves in with John for a short time. One day John brings Lee to Zaza Electronics introduces him as his son from the US. The owner later remembered Lee speaking with an American accent. This is weird. Lee started to show up to the store every day to play games now with John Jr. John was starting to mold Lee and who he wanted him to be. He has Lee convert to Islam.

He teaches Lee what he thought he knew about honor and discipline. They started practicing calisthenics in the yard every day. Maybe karate sources don't say karate. But I think there was a strong chance that John was teaching Lee some kind of weird karate, but not really karate. He'd made up. John also made Lee and John Jr. listen to tapes before bed. Taves to play music followed by readings from self-help books or nation of Islam teaching. So that's awesome. And apparently no one thought any of this was strange, at least no one interviewed later by reporters.

Most people around town seem to think that John again, great dude, awesome loving dad. Kids are extremely well behaved. But then Lee began to change. Lee begins to change now, excuse me. His new best friend in his new school, John Schusshinker. Notice he began to argue with his classmates about Islam at a seventh day Adventist school, which makes sense. He suddenly become really interested in guns to and stop coming to school.

Right? He had more to learn with Papa John. The school could ever teach him. Met him myself. We're not thinking to call him Papa John earlier. Pretty sure I'm gonna call him Papa John, most of the rest is episode. Papa John taught Lee what he believed it meant to be a man, as he old as sibling now.

He basically been informed, informally adopted. Lee's suddenly in charge when Papa John's not present. Papa John's other kids don't seem to mind. Papa John's daughter Talaba says that Lee was fun and supportive. He fit naturally into a big brother role. Papa John implemented a strict structure. I am a picture of the guy from Papa John's pizza now in this story, which is funny to me. Papa John is a strict structure. I am a picture of the guy from Papa John's Pizza Now in this story, which is funny to me.

Papa John had a strict structure. Better ingredients, better pizza. No, routine in the house, he never used corporate punishment. Instead, he made the kids do push ups for bad behavior. For example, if the kids couldn't work at a disagreement themselves, they'd have to do push ups for a full 30 minutes. That's a lot of fucking push ups. Also rewarded for good behavior.

If they studied nation of Islam teachings, they'd get cash, you know, that they could share. So that's not good. They're allowed to, you know, not good that they're getting rewarded that way for nation of Islam teachings. They're allowed to keep 60% of their money had to save their 40%.

John also good about giving children one-on-one attention, something that lead craved. You know what, for a guy who's kidnapped his kids and threatened to kill their mother on numerous occasions and broken into their house to watch her mom sleep. And for a guy who's now making living selling forage government documents, who also strongly presses his children to study, to racist and crazy as teachers lose fairy con. For all of that, Papa John does seem to be a pretty great dad, right? Better ingredients, better kids. The spring of 2001 immigration law enforcement

started to catch on to Papa John's legal forging operations. Papa John even has to leave home for a few days to hide on the island. Well, please search for him. March 11, 2001, Papa John is arrested at Tenteca Airport and escapes custody two days later. No, no details given regarding how he slept away. He ranges for his kids to move to a safe house

under the caravan's girlfriend. Leah is told to make sure they stay away from the police and continue running the forgery business. Okay, like a good dad, keep forging, come on, come on. That's, you know, that's what that needs. Least absentending school March of 2001, two weeks after he was got a forge after two weeks after Papa John escaped custody,

Leah wakes to find John in the house with him. Papa John tells him it is time for phase two, but it doesn't elaborate on what that means. Who knows, maybe that was just his weird way of saying, you really had to take a shit or something. I'd love to say a chat, but, you know, time for phase two. I knew I shouldn't have had that fifth slice of Papa John's pizza.

Time for phase two. For the next two months, John continued to elude authorities. He must not have been that much of a law enforcement priority. And he kept running this forgery business. Papa John's girlfriend does the household chores while Lee helps John run the business in Antigua. Also continues with his big brother slash backup dad role. Tutors John's kids for up to four hours a day, takes him to the park, tries to avoid

the police, begins to feel overwhelmed by the pressure of suddenly having to be the man of the family. He hasn't even known that long. He's not actually a part of. He's worried about paying rent, struggling to find new customers for Papa John's business. When he does find something, he uses that money to buy food for the family. He's doing all this while Papa John's hiding. He feels he should have some say and have the money to spend now, but no one else agrees. This is also weird, weird position.

Papa John has put this kid in. By May of 2001, Lee is so overwhelmed that he snaps. John Jr. wants to play with him. And when he punches his arm, Lee quote, picks him up and slams him. John Jr. begins to withdraw now. Lee uses the money he's making, running Papa John's fordries to make sure the other kids eat three times a day.

He's only eating once a day, usually leftover food. Talibah recalls later asking him if he was eaten enough and he would just tell who he wasn't hungry. Talibah was the one who was still close to him by this point. Selena, John Jr. stained away because it's irritated and harsh. Yes. He got a lot of shit on his plate. He's just barely 16 doing all this. Just as Lee felt that he was going to collapse under all this pressure. Papa John returns comes bearing gifts for everyone. Except for Lee. Uh, then John's kids complain about Leabie and two authoritarian while John's away. John legal for a walk.

He tells Johnny, feels like he's failed him. And that's when John karate chops him in the throat. Face three motherfucker. No. John told him he didn't fail him. He did a good job taking care of the kids and he hugged him. He was overcome with emotion and cried. It's poor fucker.

He has a family. He always wanted, even though it's a weird family that just uses him. Has a father figure who uses him, but he sees as a proven of him. He's gonna do anything that John wants, you know, to keep all this. May 24, 2001, John is kids and Lee, always forged documents, fly to Miami.

Okay, got a hand at the Papa John. Clearly pretty good at forged documents and nice that he took Lee. Even though in the long run, it wouldn't been better if he left him. But Lee reunites now with a reunite with his deadbeat mom who wants him back, even though she has no fucking life plan at all for how to take care of him. Cycle continues.

John and the kids fly to Belynhem, Washington. Without Papa John's kind of adopted son, he clearly doesn't care that much for. Just used him when he was convenience. Once in Belynhem, Papa John and and the kids staying hotels or with friends, John working odd jobs for money. Meanwhile, Mildred continued to try and track this dude down from Tacoma, get your kids back. Then on August 13th, 2001, Lee enrolls as a junior at Cypress Lake High School in Fort Meyers, Florida.

He's back at another school. He and his mom are cleaning rooms together at a resort for $25 each. Lee is allowed to keep half his earnings, and this is $25. Not sure if it's a room, but it didn't specify it. A room or a day. I hope a room, but I doubt it. Now, generous of mom to let him keep half of the money. Lee wanted to go to college,

he eventually become a pilot. He wants somebody own a flying service back down in the Caribbean. He takes a college entrance pre-test, does very well. School counselor wants him to take the SAT, but can't because it doesn't have a social security number number because he's not supposed to be in this country. So now, Una reaches out to Papa John. It says she wants, you know, him to adopt Lee so he can become a U.S. citizen and be able to go to college. And then Una buys us on a bus

ticket to Bellingham, but then changes her mind, of course, and hides it from him. She's fucking crazy. Late August 2001, John registers his kids for public school in Washington state now. Their names match names on Mildred's writ of habeas corpus. Habias corpus is when a person reports an unlawful detention or imprisonment to a court and requests that the court order the custodian of the person to bring the person or children to court to determine whether the detention is lawful. Usually I used to have an imprisoned person brought to court, but often using

custody battles. And I do realize that children are people. Militant had gotten one of these for her kids, you know, months and months earlier. Local police now pick up the kids. Finally, give them back to Militant for a, you know, emotional, you know, reunification, a reunion. And now he has a court date regarding custody that he has to attend. John does.

Papa John's fucking furious. He chases, milled her down a hall of the courthouse, tells her, you have become my enemy and as my enemy, I will kill you. It's that, says that, you know, thread again. Maybe there was a, maybe there was a, I don't know. Anyway, not sure how he was never brought up on kidnapping charges or any other charges.

Shortly after losing his kids, it's the second time he's had kids and lost them, by the way. Papa John calls up new number one son, Lee Boyd Malvo, says, Lee, they took the children. Lee writes about how he felt later from prison. He says, I was able to identify with that loss. I had never seen him indecisive. I had never heard that much pain. He spoke to something in me, that void that you're in to be filled.

I wanted to have a father to love, uh, to love me like that. I wanted to know someone cared as deeply for me. When he said he needed me to help him get the children so that we could once again be a family, it opened up to floodgates for the kid who ran away to his father five years earlier, but who was rejected. Lee told his mom now that John is ready to adopt him. You know, it's going to help him get into college. John backs us up.

Carl's Una said, so do anything you can to help Lee. And Una is furious. Of course she is. I don't think she actually wanted her son to be successful on any level. So do anything you can to help Lee and Una is furious. Of course she is. I don't think she actually wanted her son to be successful on any level. I think she probably wanted him to be as miserable as she was. And I'm aware that I'm reading a lot

into the relationship, actually, no very little about but based on the info I have, that's what I think. So now Lee decides to buy his time until he can run away. Meanwhile, Papa John's ex-Mildred changes her name, flees across the country to Clinton, Maryland, with her kids touched on that earlier. Clinton sits just outside the DC beltway, so you can see where this is all going. Papa John's friend Robert Holmes later tells Vanity Fair, I think

that after his kids got taken away, John had a nervous breakdown. I'm not a professor or a doctor, but John changed in a million subtle ways after his kids were taken away. He'd spend all day some days just crying. All he could think of was getting his kids back. Dude, his fucking broke at this point. And I don't feel sorry for him. He was controlling abusive asshole who refused to get help for the shit he was dealing with after coming back from the Middle East. After his wife leaves him, he could have chosen to handle the separation like it grown up, but didn't. It's not going to the house. Watch his ex sleep like a fucking creep, threaten your life, then just straight up kidnap the kids, then after fleeing

the Caribbean before getting arrested for forgery, you know, heading back to the States, ends up having to pay the piper. What goes around truly comes around for him in this case, and now she did to him what he did to her. But for a very different reason, she was afraid he was going to kill her because he had been telling her he was going to kill her. Mildred living in fear, terrified that John's gonna come after her and find her. Before she fled, she claimed that John had contacted her, threatened to her, threatened to kill her again.

You know, said he'd kill her, no one to find her body. A legal later confirmed after his arrest that Papa John's hatred for Mildred was the motive for the shootings. He wanted to punish Mildred for taking the kids. What a fucking crazy way to do that to kill a bunch of other random people who had nothing to do with the situation. John eventually used connections with indivoted dads and nonprofit fathers' rights group to try and find Milderid. That particular organization doesn't seem to be around anymore. Being connected with one of the DC snipers.

You know, probably not great for fundraising efforts. After hitting up every family member and old friend and acquaintance, you can think of, John does find out that Milderid and the kids are in the DC area. This of course is what brings John and Lee to DC. And they will figure out where they live. This is also what kicks off across country rampage. These two will soon target business owners, learn in their routine so they can attack and rob them. According to Lee later, John would have him kill people that evaluate him, then critique how he did afterwards. So he could get better with the next murder. Strange dark game. These two are starting to play.

Before they play it, they got to reconnect. They got to do some training. In October of 2001, Lee Malvo, having no idea what's in store for him across the country, gets himself a bus ticket runs away to Washington. The day before he ran away, Una told him that it was her way or the highway. Man, Lee did not hit the parental jackpot. One parent abandoned him. The other should have abandoned him. You know, at least abandoned him completely instead of just doing it over and over again Fucking up numerous chance the had a stability. Lee packs up his belongings sneaks out at 4.30 in the morning

October 20th 2001 Lee shows up at lighthouse mission in Belfast, Washington Where John have been living. It's a home of shelter that is still there on a holly street Lee's family life sucked so fucking bad. He wants a dad so bad He was willing to take a bus across the country to live with new dad in a home of shelter. John introduces Lee there is his oldest oldest son once again Lee speaks in an American accent Lee tries to hopefully his accent skills better than mine. Mission staff would tell reporters later that they felt like something was off. The new John had a son from the first from his first marriage, but they thought he was

older than Lee because he. Debbie Lindbergh, uh, 40-year-old John and raged about losing his kids and raged about life. This is a guy who was killing it right at high school, right? Great job. New clothes, new car. He was the man. Now, 20 years later in his life as in shambles, he wants someone to blame. And he focuses all his attention on Lee. Ah, well While John and Lee live in this homeless shelter together, they strengthen what will later be called their disturbing father, son dynamic. John is extremely controlling of Lee from the moment he arrives. Tell us, Lee, that it is time for him to graduate to the next level. Whatever the fuck that means,

he's insane. A lot of phases and levels with this moron. Start to have to meet only one meal a day. Just get 16 at this time. And you know, should have eaten five meals a day. Papa John creates an exercise diet program for Lee, which borders on starvation. And one point, all these allowed to eat is crackers and honey. Apparently, reaching the next level revolves mainly around poor nutrition or being very skinny. Maybe it's important to slip through small openings at the next level. Maybe there's a lot of situations at the next level that involve sitting in like rickety furniture that'll break if you're too heavy or something. John is working with Donald Hollande when Lee shows up in Washington, a man who renovated

houses and hires day laborers from time to time from the shelter. Lee starts working with John occasionally and he begins to see Papa John's anger appear more often. One day, while they're playing basketball, Lee actually hits John in the face with the ball. Lee said he was sorry, try to keep playing. When Lee grabbed at him the next drive, John elbows him in the ribs and twists his wrist and throws him on the ground. Lee says later, he looks at me with a hollow stare. I've never seen him anger or I've never seen so much anger aimed at him before.

I immediately asked what I did to make him so angry. He stared at me and then walked away. If I had been thinking then, I would have seen what he truly thought about me. But I was too busy blaming myself for the incident. He stared at me and then walked away. If I had been thinking then, I would have seen what he truly thought about me. But I was too busy blaming myself and incident. I swear that never again, when I make him that mad at me. And John is a ticking time bomb.

He's 40 years old, living in a home shelter, right? After making decent money in Antica, currently has no relationship with his son from his first marriage, or with his kids from his second marriage, this control freak, this wannabe special forces alpha male Not in charge of anything his ego not getting struck from having a good job from having a loving romantic partner from being able to be a father

As crazy as fucker was he did care a great deal about his kids and You know not counting how I treated their mom did seem to be a good dad in some ways, you know gave his kids structure love discipline Didn't abuse them people respected the way he parented But now he doesn't have anyone really respected him for anything other than Lee. And Lee can't be that impressed with him, can he? I mean, to move across the country, hoping to pop a junk, he could help him get into college, now he's living in a fucking homeless shelter,

getting thrown to the ground on the basketball court, not going to school, picking up occasional day laborer jobs. November 8, 2001, Lee starts to go to school again. Things are looking up for a moment. He begins taking classes at Bale and Hem High. Things are a little bit better with Papa John, kind of. Every day after school, Lee and John start lifting weights together at the YMCA. They also go to the local gun range.

That's a Tacoma Sportsman Club to practice shooting. And I don't love that. Hidden targets at the gun range. Yeah, great, super fun. But maybe not when you're also living in a homeless shelter. Maybe want to direct a little more time you're also living in a homeless shelter. Maybe want to direct a little more time and energy to get in a steady job. Trying to figure how to provide for yourself instead of, you know, getting better at shooting shit. Seems

like a bit of a red flag. On days they weren't going to the gun range, they'd go visit some of Papa John's new friends in the area, play video games, watch movies. Also worry some right. Look for a fucking job! Focus on change your life in small, positive ways. I guess he wasn't doing that because really all he wanted to do was kill Mildred, right? Then he'd focus on the next steps. Only real next step for him is how do I get away with destroying Mildred? At least, as around this time, they watched the Matrix at least a hundred times.

Of course, right? Love that movie, but it's also very popular with a lot of conspiracy nuts and just other fucking lunatics who start to think they're neo. Start to think they're going to unplug from all this. Also, watch the instructional video tape called Carlos Hathcock, Marine Sniper. Big red flag, watch the sniper tapes. Carlos Hanth, Hathcock, Rest in Peace, fucking legend, by the way. Dude was the Marine's best sniper in Vietnam, 93 confirmed kills, singled out by the Vietnam, who put a huge bounty on his head, put a bounty on the head of the man they called white feather because the white feather he would keep it a band on his bush hat. Due to ledger, we have killed every counter sniper the Viet

Cong sent after him. And supposedly killed another sniper once by shooting him in the fucking eye, shot him through the scope of that dude's own rifle Which means of course that that guy was just about to shoot him that's insane, but that's the legend uh Lee always wanted to play war games when he hung out with Papa John's friends one that stood out to him was Tom clancy's ghost recon sniper game the debut on November 13th 2001 Where a player picks tools hide and place you know before assassinating targets Later uh Lee later told a psychologist that he was good at the game because he learned how to keep his emotions down 2001 where a player picks tools, hide and place, you know, before assassinating targets. Later, Lee later told a psychologist that he was good at the game because he learned

how to keep his emotions down. Yeah, he doesn't have a lot of anger issues from the fucked up child that he had, you know, that he was probably not properly dealing with. People the shelter later remembered, noticing how incredibly controlling John was becoming with Lee more and more all the time. Lee wouldn't speak unless he had permission from John. They were always together. The mission manager later reported that one day Lee more all the time. Lee wouldn't speak unless he had permission from John. They were always together. The mission manager later reported that one day,

Lee came into the cafeteria, was talking with a few of the other people there. And it wasn't like they were talking about national security or anything. They were just BSN. But then John came in, shot Lee a look, and instantly, Lee stopped talking, put his head down, kept eating.

The look that John gave Lee, it was a look of total domination. And Papa John Better ingredients needed to feel in control now Lee is the only person or thing in the world. He actually has control over Lee was now making Lee listen to tapes that contained messes from Alcom X Lewis Farrakhan, right prominent NOI leaders Pumpkin full of hate. That's great. Do we Cornell Lee's psychologists later will say by now John Muhammad was controlling everything in Lee Mavila's life, from his exercise to his diet to what he was thinking. This is what some psychologists call a disassociative state.

It's the idea that through total control of everything someone is eating and thinking and doing, that person can be made to do things and otherwise rational person would not. And all of it sounds preposterous unless you go through the process. But how else can you explain Jim Jones? How else can you explain heaven's gate? I interesting that he compared John and Lee not to other true crime duos, but to cults. It really had become a cult of two.

Meanwhile, Una was searching for Lee. She started calling the White House Mission often. It was never able to reach him. Sad that she actually would have been the better option for Lee at this point. December 14, 2001, who does finally get through to John, confront him about having kidnapped Lee. John tells her, I have a job to do, and I can't rely on some co-care to do it. All right, to follow this call to him, his credit, she gets on a bus, comes to Washington,

help her son. I guess she's not the worst mom ever. Soon Reverend Al Archer, head of the mission, will pick her up from a Billingham bus station, and he'll drive her to a Billingham PD police department to speak with law enforcement and within a police station. And within a few hours, Lee is back with his mom for like the fucking 80th time. And what did the two of them do? Well now they both stay at the lighthouse mission and Papa John, get kicked the fuck out.

I have to find better ingredients, better pizza elsewhere. I don't even know if that's the slow, but I think it. Now he's really hit rock bottom, just had Lee taken away from, got to feel like the third time he's lost parental rights, even though he's not Lee's dad. And he's been booted from a homeless shelter. He's sitting rock bottom.

Luckily or not luckily for the story, he has friends who let him stay with him, does some couch surfing. December 19, 2001 Lee mobled his mom, Una James, who are arrested by immigration officials. Local police had alerted the INS after seeing their immigration papers and recognizing their fortaries. In the year of the year, the UNA has been deported. He might be living a semi-normal life down in the Caribbean somewhere now.

Maybe working as that pilot instead of sitting in an American prison. Mission head L. Archer tried to give them a ride when the UNA was in the US and was in the US. The UNA was in the US and was in the US. The UNA was in the US

and was in the US. The normal life down in the Caribbean somewhere now. Maybe working as that pilot instead of sitting in an American prison. Mission head L. Archer tried to give them a ride when they were released, but they said they needed to be somewhere secret that John couldn't find out about. Oon later said Lee was paranoid, thought they were being followed. What's he actually relieved to no longer be with Papa John? Maybe not. Two days after they made it, their safe house lea runs away. Then Oon finds out he is with fucking Papa John.

Catches him on a city bus. Phase four, right around in the city bus, and think about phase five. She asked him why he was running from her, and he just ran away again. John was now taken lead of the gun range every day. Or, you know, they also practice shooting at a tree stump at a property I wanted John or on the property of one of John's friends.

John told me to imagine killing people while he shot also told him in order to become what I need you to be, you have to die. Your morals, your fears, Lee Boyd Malvo has to die. And that doesn't really seem like anything to worry about actually. Uh, Papa John, I mean, I feel like he's kind of entering a new period of stability again, because I tell my son, kind of shit like that, I mean almost every day. I mean, I'll say stuff like, in order for you to become who I need, you to become son, you have to die, your morals, your fears, kind of these comments has to go.

I'll say this to him oftentimes at night while he's in bed, you know, like he'll be laying in his bed, I'll always stand on the hallway, and I'll just say to him oftentimes at night while he's in bed. You know, like he'll be laying in his bed, always standing on the hallway and I'll just say shit like that through a crack door opening, just open enough for him to see half my face and just one of my eyes. And after I say it, I'll just silently stare at him,

unblinking, not smiling, just real stone face. I'll very slowly, I just close the door. That's some good, dad 101, right there. Obviously kidding. John Gabelie, his first test to see if he'd become who he needed him to be at the end of January John took lead to a parking garage in Belianham Totally that a woman's gonna be coming out of the garage at 1 a.m. With a bag of cash from a restaurant He wants to lead a shooter and steal the bag of money Legates set up in the garage just like Papa John wants him to be woman comes out to her car drops off her bag

Starts the car while Lee watches her through the scope of his rifle, but then she realizes he forgot something, he has to go back inside. Lee is able to run down there, steal the bag, and not shoot her. Later, he'll say he was relieved, and then go meet John and a bus stop for a bus heading to Tacoma.

I wonder if whoever that lady is, if she knows that these psychos almost killed her that day. I hope not. I don't think I would want to know that. Early 2002, Lee drops out of high school. He's hiding from his mom, he's hiding from immigration officials, live with Papa John, surfing couches, sleeping in a truck, John somehow purchased. Maybe he used the money they stole from that lady in the parking garage to get it. The Sith Master made a daily schedule for a Sith apprentice that included exercise and training missions During these missions these two weirdos would hunt each other in local woods

Papa John also trained Lee and how to overcome interrogation once chained him to a tree Well, it was snowing to mentally harden him must learn about that during his special forces training he never had Leila went along with all this according to his own testimony and testimony of expert later because he was desperate for John's love and respect. Wanted to prove himself to Papa John. Poor man's Darth Vader, aka Anakin Skywalker wants to please poor man's emperor, Papa teen, aka Darth Sidious to continue with the Star Wars analogy. Uh, Lee is ready to fully commit to the dark side. He'll prove that with his first murder carried out at Papa John's request. Better ingredients, better murders. February 16th, 2002. On that cold winter's day, 21-year-old Kenia Cook is shot, not from a sniper's bullet, fired from far away, but at point blank range,

actually, by Lee Marveau, at her aunt's home in Tacoma. Lee shot Kenia as she opened the door, bullet went through her right nostril, endure skull, Kenia's six-month-old baby was upstairs. opened the door, Bullo went through a right nostril, endure a skull, Keeney's six-month-old baby was upstairs. Shuttered with a 45-calibre pistol owned by Earl Dancy Jr., a friend of Muhammad's who was later sued for Lone and Papa John that gun. Keeney was not the intended victim. John Muhammad originally targeted Eason Nichols, Keeney's aunt. Eason had been the accountant for the auto shop, Papa John and his ex-wife, Mildreddont.

And she was close friends with Mildred, And she had turned against John during the custody battle. Lee later told a psychologist that this shooting was a test. It happened just two days before his 17th birthday. Holy shit. Lee was told to knock on the door, shoot Issa in the forehead. Issa in our knees to just return from the store. Kenya was the one who went to the door. If Issa had, no, she would have died instead. Hopefully she didn't have a bunch of survivors guilt. Gini was, Kenya was living with her aunt because she wanted to save up money, excuse me, to go to culinary school. It was her dream to open up her own restaurant one day. How the fuck could Lee do this, right? He had never exhibited violent tendencies before. How could he want John's approval that badly? Lee later explained to psychologist

that he was able to do what he did by zoning out, pushing aside all his emotions as he had learned training with John, right? John had specifically been training him to do what he did by zoning out, pushing aside all his emotions as he had learned training with John, right? John had specifically been training him to do this for months. He wasn't able to do it without guilt though after he killed Kenya. He contemplated suicide. He said he even wrote a note to John's niece, Latoria Williams, who he'd met through John obviously called himself a walking time bomb wrote, was my purpose here on the God for Saken Planet to be banned, shamed, and disapproved?

Why am I here? I've had a hard life, believe it, or not, no father and a mother who hate. No, that's understatement. She has disbarred me from her, as I have a father, who I know is going to have to kill me for a righteous society to prevail. Woof! Wow, how much a mumbo jumbo jumbo and pop a jam and push into this dude's fucking head. Should sounds like something a cult member would say a right borderline gibberish. At the end of May 2002, John finds out where Mildred and the children are living.

Uh oh. Headed into December of 2002, John and Lee had out down across country murder spree. It'll take them to Los Angeles, Tucson, clear water, Florida, Denton, Texas, Hammond, Louisiana, and more places before they arrive in DC at the beginning of September. And then they'll kind of bounce back and forth out of the DC area a little bit.

March 19, 2002, six-year-old Jerry Taylor was shot and killed on a golf course in Tucson. Lee Malva would take credit for this killing. Said he shot and killed Jerry from long range as he practiced chip shots on a fucking golf course practice screen at Fred Enkeyke golf course at Tucson's Southeast side. He's Papa John's Bush master 223, right? Weapon he had picked up into coma and AR 15 assault rifle that looked definitely as like a military grade look to it. Not exactly sure how he had it modified.

Clearly he had an incredible scope on it to hit long range shots that they were end up hidden in this shot. Papa John excellent excellent marksman, trained lead to be the same. I've never shot one of these rifles, but I watched a few YouTube videos and, you know, some of these guys shooting these things incredibly accurately. August 1st, 2002, 58 year old John Gayetta shot in the neck by Lee Malvo and Hammond Louisiana. He'll survive his injuries and in 2010, receive an apology letter from Lee. Gator became the sniper's mark when he arrived at a mall about 8.20 pm. It was almost closing time. He parked quickly, was just rushing to fucking seers, pick up some new dad shoes.

While inside Malville or Papa John, slashed one of Gator's tires. Shortly after 9 pm, Gator returns to his truck, starts it up, realizes as a flat, pulls under a street light and the mall parking lot to change it. Two-minute and dark clothes, soon approach him, asking whether or not the mall is still open, get a response to some stores R, and then walk off, return about five minutes later. Do you need any help? One of them asks, no I'm okay, get a replies. Looks like he have a flat tire.

Other man replies, chuckle under his breath, then walk off again, get it as he sees them for several minutes until he goes to the bed of his Chevy Silverado to retrieve his spare tire. From there he sees a shadow slinking alongside the truck. Gated looks closer. He says the figure dars to the front of his vehicle, thinking teenagers are playing a prank on him. He meets the figure on the other side of the truck, asked flatly, what are you doing? Lee Mavel then comes around the door, makes eye contact, produces a 22 caliber revolver, shoots him from a distance about five feet away. Gaita said he kind of had a smirk on his face like I want to kill you. I remember thinking this is the end of my life tonight.

The bullet pierces Gaita's neck, exits his back just below the shoulder. His first thought is of his wife, his family and friends, his second is, you know, but it was his second thought, excuse me, that saved his life. He said I knew that I, unless I fell to the ground, he would be shooting me again. And he explained how he played possum while Malvo snatched the wallet from his pants pocket. After Malvo and Mohammed fled, Gated and runs to a service station. It's tough stuff of a bitch. Wasn't in much pain and actually thought it was a prank for a little bit. Tells witnesses at the service station that he might have been shot with a paintball gun,

but then one of them is like, but sir, you're bleeding. Dude goes to the hospital. Doctors tell him he dodged damage to his spine and arteries, and he was released within an hour. F***ing crazy. He was both very unlucky and very lucky that night. September 5, 2002, 55 year old Paul LaRoufa shot five times outside of, uh, Marjolena, his restaurant in Clinton, Maryland. Apparently, fucking indestructible.

He survives his injuries. He was shot with a 22 caliber handgun. It's late, 10. in Clinton, Maryland. Apparently, fucking indestructible. He survives his injuries. He was a 22 caliber handgun. It's late, 10.30 pm. Paul leaves the restaurant, puts his laptop and briefcase the back of his car, gets in, shuts the door, then sees a flash of light to his left, just a millisecond before his window explodes. Here's gunshots.

He's robbed of his laptop and $3,500. Paul was in surgery for seven hours, put on a breathing tube for three days. And for 10 days, he was released from the hospital. Shooting occurred in your mildreds home. And that was intentional. Part of Papa John's master plan, shooter later, not have her death be traced back to him as a suspect. Just have her be one of many people in the area killed by a deranged lunatic. Have her death just be another random killing. That's why all of this was done. A mildred still lived in a constant fear of John. She always checked the doors,

even the roof of her house to make sure that John hadn't tried to break in. It wasn't fucking hide in somewhere. She was so scared she wouldn't befriend anyone in the area. It didn't want to increase the odds that someone could be contacted by John that he'd use them to find her what a terrible way to live. Lee later said that while they were stalking Mildred, they're also scouting businesses for robberies. Lee later told the producers for an episode of Monster My Family that he climbed up a fence, walked up to Paul's, shot him, stole his bag, and just walked away.

Afterwards, John told him, you're ready. I've created a fucking monster. You're ready. God, how creepy. This guy reminds me of Charles Manson, brainwashing, someone fortunate, so willing to do in his sick bidding, Charles Manson had the family. This guy just has the sun. On September 10th, 2002, John Perch says, a 1990 Chevy Caprice from Sure Shot auto sales

in Trenton, New Jersey. That is such a such a used car lot name. Sure shot auto sales. I have no idea that's their jingle, like I'm, get your sure shot. You just need a sure shot and you're back on track auto sales. They use the money from the LaRoufale shooting to make the purchase. John Lee modified the car to serve as a mobile base

for future shooting. They drilled a hole in the trunk so they could shoot from inside. Also how fucking ridiculous is it? They bought a car to be used as a roving fucking roling sniper kind of base from Sure Shot. Yes. One man would shoot while the other drove was the plan. September 14th, 2002, 22 year old, Rupinder, Oberoi, because the first victim of a shot from the sure shot out of sales caprice. He was wounded after being shot outside of Hillendale, beer and wine in Silver Spring, Maryland, where he worked.

Shooting occurred around 10-10 pm. He was the help of the owner, closed shop for the night. All of a sudden, I heard a loud bang, like a firecrack on the 4th July said, Rupender. An immigrant to the US from India, he said, I didn't feel anything at first, but after five or six seconds, suddenly I was not not able to breathe. And I fell down. And after he watched him cop came to Oberoi's aid when he was shot, called an ambulance and the ambulance, an emergency medical technician worked on him. I heard them say he's not going to make it.

It's really bad. I was frightened. I thought this was it. This is where I'm going to die. Oberoi said, he suffered damage to his kidneys and liver, lost a portion of his stomach from a single bullet. They shot him with that bushmaster, but you know, he lived. On September 15th, 2002, 32 year old Muhammad Rashid is shot and wounded while closing three roads liquor in Brandywine, Maryland. He'll let her I later identify Lee Maavo

as the shooter in court. So it was another close range shot this time. Just after midnight, September 21st, 2002, 41 year old, million, Waldor, Miriam dies after being shot three times outside of liquor store at Lanna. Georgia prosecutors never filed any charges in this case. That evening, there was another shooting at a liquor store in Montgomery, Alabama. Montgomery, Alabama, Claudine Parker store owner was killed and Kelly Adams, a clerk, was injured. They're going all over the place, right?

Shooting all kinds of people, trying to make it all look as random as possible and make, you know, some money for future missions. Kelly Adams spoke on Monster my family about that night. She said that she and Claudine closed at 7 p.m. They always checked the parking lot to make sure it was safe. Parking was empty. So they went outside. Claudine put the key in the lock. Kelly suddenly fell to the ground, turned to the left and her face quote flopped open. Jesus Christ. Dr. said she would have died if the bullet had traveled just one sixteenth of an inch further. Kelly saw someone run off after she was shot. He dropped a catalog on the ground. It was actually a brochure. Lee Malvo had dropped it after imprinting it with his fingerprints,

a mistake that would soon lead to his and John's arrest. Thank God. Ballistics will link 22 caliber handgun to the Atlanta and Montgomery Alabama shootings. On September 23, 2002, HONG imbalinger, a beauty shop manager in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, killed and yet another shooting. During the week is September 23, John Tellesley, what their true mission is, this diluted selfish diabolical fuck tells him they're going to extort $10 million from the government by randomly killing people and they will then obviously use that money to buy a compound. Start a utopian community of 70 black boys and 70 black girls exactly face six or something. These kids would grow up learning Islam and a code of honor and they would go out into the world and change it.

I mean, he really was more like a cult leader than a serial killer. That's how you make the world a better place. You gun down random citizens, then have the government pay you to stop stop doing that then raise a bunch of people to live super honorable lives and then those people turn the world into heaven on earth easy peasy what don't you understand about this most people familiar with this case seem to believe this is just you know it's not a lie that john told even a lee didn't believe this was the real motive, even at the time. Yet he keeps helping him. Infer penny, infer pound, I guess.

On September 26, 2002, their next victim, Wright Williams, Jr. Shot and injured at his grocery store in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. John and Lee never charged in his shooting, but it was brought up at John's trial. He's probably down there with his family. You know, he's got a couple shootings in while he visits some relatives. October 2, 2002 marks the true beginning of Lee and Papa John's DC area, three week long rampage. Proud of this week, I either didn't remember or never knew that there was so much violence that had taken place before they terrorized the beltway. And the beltway

by the way refers to Interstate 495, aka the Capitol beltway, circumferential highway or beltway that encircles Washington, DC and has since 1964. 520 pm on the second shots fired inside a Michael's craft store and asked for Hill, Maryland. No one's injured. A lot of people freak the fuck out. Then 40 minutes later, 6 pm, sniper bullet kills 55 year old James D Martin. James is just walking across the shop and set a parking lot in Wheaton, Maryland.

James is a program analyst at the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration. Mildred hears the news. Now she's terrified of John and the sniper, not knowing the tour connected. And then that fear amped up when her coworker, who was picking her up for work, informs the dark carman sitting outside the cul de sac in her neighborhood. When this coworker drove past, they saw two black men sitting in the car driver looked at them Passed in your head his face with the newspaper Mildred called the police described the car as either a caprice ding ding ding sure shot I don't say it's or an impala the police and an officer the car was gone by the time they arrived

October 30,000 to five more people are dead four of them within a few miles of each other in a fifth victim of Washington DC. Authorities linked the attacks to the sniper from the second and multiple agencies. They dedicated their agencies to finding the killer. The entire area now covered by a cloud of terror. 741 AM 39 year old James L. Buchanan shot and killed while cutting grass at the Fitzgerald automaw and white Flint, Maryland. at the Fitzgerald automaw and white Flint, Maryland, 812 am 54 year old Prem Kumar, Walla Carr killed while pumping gas for his cab at a mobile station, Asim Hill, Maryland, 837 am 34 year old Sarah Raymos, fatally shot in the head, while just fucking reading a book on a bench in the Silver Spring, Maryland, 958 am 25 year old Laurie and Lewis Rivera killed while vacuuming her car at a shell

station in Kensington, Maryland 9.20 p.m. 72 year old Paschal Charlotte retired carpenter killed while walking along Georgia Avenue Northwest in Washington DC five murders in one day four of them during less than a two hour stretch in the morning. October 4th, 2002 43 year old Carolyn C. Well, shot wounded, might be Caroline, uh, Caroline, I think Caroline C. Well, shot and wounded while loading items and do a van at Michael's, uh, Michael store near Spots, Slovenia Mall, witness Alex Jones, but not that Alex Jones, not the conspiracy freak saw Caroline, uh,

fall to the ground. You fled to his car as he was driving to the park and not he ended up getting behind an old Chevy with New Jersey license plates, a caprice windows were covered Jones felt a strong urge. She get away from that car I wish conspiracy theorist Alex Jones would have been the witness there I just thought maybe we find some youtube video. I was there. I saw exactly who pulled the trigger It was Killery Clinton. She was sitting on George Soros' shoulders George Davia holding him steady I could smell the sulfur, new world order demons,

aluminum and naughty snipers. The shootings aren't random. They're hits, pulled out by Bill Gates to keep people quiet about the adrenochrome harvesting enough is enough. I see you Tom Hanks. Judge Mateusz coming. Just fucking his crazy ass.

The police now called him a geographic profiler to establish a pattern to the shootings. October 7, 2002, 13-year-old Iran Brown shot critically wounded in front of a Benjamin in front of Benjamin Tasker middle school in Bowie, Maryland. Man, Iran testified in 2003. When I got to the school, I opened the door to the car, I got out, I put my book bag down, I got shot. Dr. Martin Eichelberger, who performed surgery on Brown, said that his liver was shattered. Brown had injuries toichelberger, who performed surgery on Brown, said his liver was shattered. Brown had injuries to his lungs, spleen, pancreas and diaphragm. Brown's aunt rushed into a clinic after the shooting. She was a nurse staff at the clinic in the

hospital barely able to save him. Didn't think they were going to be able to do it first. President Bush now publicly condemns these cowardly and senseless acts of violence. Papa John sees President Bush's speech, turns himself in Lee Malvellin. They really woke him up. You know, up until hearing that speech, he thought the killings were courageous and logical. But then when Bush denounced them, it's cowardly and senseless. Spooked him. Caused him to pause. He was like, oh, oh, shit. Oh, God, Lee, what have we done? This is this is cowardly. This is senseless. I see it now. This is fucking crazy. Come on fake son

Let's head down to the precinct see we can do to write some wrongs at least receive some justice, you know Better ingredients better arrests Of course it didn't happen I and I also I know that it's good to publicly denounce acts like this. I do the same thing. I do the same thing It also is kind of silly though sometimes we think about it like you know socially expected virtue signaling The probably does little to nothing to stop these kinds of acts from ever happening October 8th 2002 death tarot card found near the school with a message call me God written on it Stored as possible evidence. It was left by the shooters also on the eighth Baltimore police pulled over vehicle driving Erratically the driver and passenger John Muhammad Papa John and Lee Malvo background check though

Doesn't reveal any else any warrant so the officer let's him go Holy shit, they must have been sweating at that traffic stop October 9th 2002 53-year-old Dean Myers fatally shot while pumping gas and a son of co station near Manassas, Virginia Then just two days later, October 11, 2002, 53 year old, Kenneth Bridges, fatally shot, will pump and gas. Man, pump a gas got real dangerous. Exxon station, Fredris Bird, Virginia, Kenneth shot across the street from,

Kenneth was shot across the street from a Virginia state trooper investigated an accident. And that'll, uh, you know, help out as far as like a possible witness authority, shut down the entrance ramps to I 95, route one in an effort to stop the killer, but they can find no one. Witness Kristen, Christine Ann Goodwin, season old Chevy Caprice with peeling paint in a new Jersey license plate, parked at an ex-Honon Frederick Spurg, about two hours before Ken the bridge is killed, right? The same gas station.

When she seized the car, a lot of flags went off. She said later, everything about it was wrong. Something inside we just felt that car was threatening. My first instinct was to call the police, a lot of flags went off. She said later. Everything about it was wrong. Something inside. We just felt that car was threatening. My first instinct was to call the police, but I didn't. Later that day, she did call the police once you heard about the shooting now. October 12, 2002, the police released drawings of a white box truck with unknown lettering on the side reported by eyewitnesses at the shootings. Authorities announced they're going to release a drawing of a white Chevy Astro van seen at the October 11 shooting. Obviously looking the wrong type of vehicle.

October 14th, 2002, 47 year old FBI intelligence analyst Linda Franklin killed by a single sniper's bullet. Loden supplies into her car outside of Home Depot and falls church for Virginia with her husband. Another random murder inside the beltway. Man, her and her husband just load and things there. Can you fucking imagine? Sniper's bullet comes out of nowhere and a Home Depot. Killed your spouse right in front of you. Jesus Christ.

Lended work for the FBI for three and a half years as an intelligence operations specialist with a cyber division in Quantico. She was out buying supplies for their new townhouse in Arlington. Right? Just stopped at home depot after work. Customer Home Depot told the police they saw Middle Eastern man shooter. Said he was driving a white van with a bus of tail light. Good job! Fucking witness. Way to infuse some 911 xenophobia, some paranoia into your allegation, right? See what you wanna see, excellent work.

I wonder if that witness was Dana Krapa, world's worst eyewitness from the dating game killer suck. Please stop all white vans in the area but couldn't find the shooter, you know, we're driving a white van. That van description really kind of slowed the investigation down a bit. October 15th, 2002, the Department of Defense approves use of spy planes to find the sniper.

Police released sketches of two possible vans, dammit, with the vans, that'd be related to the attacks. October 17th, individual claiming to be the DC sniper calls the FBI tip line. Admits to murdering two women during a liquor store robbery in Montgomery, Alabama, September, 2002. This actually was one of the snipers thought to be Lee. Why would they do this? Maybe guilty conscience. Good thing this lead was followed up on and almost got lost in a sea of bullshit.

As I said early in the episode, after detectives opened up a tip line, less than three weeks over 100,000 calls came in from people who were sure they knew who the sniper was. And all but like three calls were shit So many calls came in that an actual helpful call from an old army buddy of John Muhammad's saying he thought John was a sniper Was ignored over a hundred thousand tips all but two useless. That's fucking crazy That takes so much manpower to filter through can only imagine some of the calls they got Right to some uh yeah nine one one one on a tip line what you're what you're murder Or whatever the fucking how they answered a tip line. What's your do you have a tip for us? Yeah, I got your guides at Michael Bernie. He hasn't seen right lately. Not since Linda left him again

Well, it's in this time because you reconnected with Man su why would you do that? That's anyone's guess We're so shocked, you know? A lot of words got thrown around about what a piece of crap Bernie was. Oh boy, oh boy, you'd be blushing if you heard a lot of that. Am I personal opinion, he left Linda because their cooking was bullcrap.

I mean, who masses up a tuna casserole? You said it and forget it, I mean, right? Oh, anyway, hello. Hey, hello. Why was I hung up on? Full disclosure, I actually was one of the people who called it. I called in to report my dad. I didn't have proof it was him, but I also didn't know where he was in October 2002 and he's very handy with firearms and he's a great long-range rifle shot. But only dad watching been around back then We could have had Papa John and probably my dad, Papa Dan, JK.

Based on John's call, investigators learned that crime did take place in Montgomery and the Montgomery police had a fingerprint and ballistic evidence. An FBI agent, a mobile, collected the evidence, took it to Washington, DC. A priest in Ashen, Virginia also received a call from someone claiming to be the sniper on October 18th. Said he knew a killed a woman who was shot on October 14th and the caller mentioned the Alabama shooting. It's thought that this was probably again, Lee. Caller also told the priests to write down the message, dear Mr. Police man, call me God, right?

Just like on the tarot card. Do not release to the press. Priest will call the police after hearing about another shooting on October 19th. October 19th, 2002, 37 year old Jeffrey Hopper shot outside of Pandoro so stay-couse in Aslan, Virginia. And investigators find the letter stuck to a tree at the crime scene. Snipers were now demanding $10 million to stop further violence. All part of Papa John's master plan got to open up that weird orphanage part of phase six or maybe 10 I forget FBI released this letter for you, Mr. Police. Call me God.

Do not release to the press. We have tried to contact you to start negotiation, but the incompetence of your forces in Montgomery Police, Rockville Police Department, Task Force FBI, priest at Ashlead. These people took off calls for a hoax or joke. So your failure to respond has cost you five lives. If stopping the killing is more important than catching us now, then you will accept our demand, which are non-negotiable. I feel like Papa John should have spent less time earlier on, you know, fucking karate and push ups and stuff. And maybe more time

studying spelling and grammar. I don't know, maybe it continues. You will place $10 million in Bank of America account number, you know, redacted account information then listed. We have unlimited withdrawal at any ATM worldwide. You will activate the bank account credit card and pin number. We will contact you upon a rose of a fake six a.m. Sunday morning. You have until 9 a.m. Monday morning to complete transaction. Try to catch us withdrawing at least you will have less body bags bags But if trying to catch us more important than prepare you body bags

If we give you our word that is what takes place word is bond PS your children are not safe anywhere at any time Sure shot out of sales what was that was a weird commercial they had for them I really wish Papa John would have again used less of his homeless time in Belynham to watch the matrix more of it on how to write understandable sentences and paragraphs Chief Charles Moose now enters the equation captain Chuck mother fucking moose muckel Appeals to the sniper in a response to the letter saying we do want to talk you call the number you provided call us As a number you provide it. Sorry on

October 20th 2002 DC area investigators contact Montgomery, Alabama police chief John Wilson about the September 21 shooting in that city. On October 21, the FBI agent from Mobile arrives in Washington, DC. ATF analyzes the ballistic evidence. The FBI takes a fingerprint from the pamphletly dropped to the lab. Later that day, police receive a call from the snipers, trace it to a pay phone at an ex on in Glen, Alan Virginia to undocumented immigrants who are arrested near that pay phone, but not the snipers trace it to a pay phone at an exon in Glenn Allen, Virginia. Two undocumented immigrants who arrested near that pay phone, but not the snipers. October 22nd, again, 25 year old Conrad Johnson bus driver killed while standing on the

two step of his bus on the top step of his bus. Excuse me, Aspen Hill, Maryland, the police reported that another letter left near the crime scene. Later that day, the FBI fingerprint database matches the Alabama print to leave to Lee Boyd Malvo previously arrested in Washington State by immigration officials. The arrest record from Washington mentions a man named John Allen Muhammad. A Tacoma agent recognizes that name from a tip called into their office.

So nice fucking work. Law enforcement, remember, you know, over a hundred thousand tips are flooding in. They got a lot of information deciphered from and they're trying to it quick. And Alabama police officer then identifies John flooding in a lot of information decipher from the trend to quick and alabama police officer that i'd advise john mohammad in a photo line up because two officers at park near the liquor store and her gunshots one of them a chase john actually got within a couple feet of him and then a tf learns that john mohammad owned a bush master right uh... two twenty three rifle uh... federal violation because he was serving a served a restraining order by his ex-wife

fby able to charge mohammad with the federal weapons violation because Lee Malvo was believed to be with him. The FBI gets a material witness warrant for him for his arrest. Searching the criminal records database then reveals that John Mohammed had registered a blue 1990 Chevy Caprice and new jersey that he'd bought at church shot auto sales. The FBI released a vehicle description complete with license plate info to national media outlets so they're getting getting close Same day they discover Lee's name a man named Robert Holmes calls the FBI says he's worried that the sniper is a friend of his from the army John Muhammad Don introduced him to a young man who he nicknamed sniper several weeks earlier

Mm-hmm FBI sent a picture of Lee Malvo to Holmes asked if that that was a sniper and he was like, yep, that's the guy. October 23, 2002, image of John Muhammad is facts to the sniper task force. Investigators issue a below, be on the lookout for. The issue of one for John Muhammad, Lee Malvo, and for their Chevy Caprice. Authorities also searched a place. John had crashed in a bit for, crashed for a bit in Tacoma, and they found out that neighbors had complained that John and Lee were off into an entire practice in the backyard. And they removed several

items in the property, including the tree stump that they had shot into Montgomery police chief now captain most knuckle holds another press conference says we have caught the sniper like a duck in a noose. And this was per a sniper's request, the snipers request in another letter from the do so. But then a few hours later they really do catch him. 11.45 pm, a trucker and a driver spot the Chevy Caprice at a rest stop parking lot off i70 and Myersville, Maryland. Lots of horsemen quickly arrive at the scene. They quietly block off the exit, a mass considerable show force, a few hours later, October

24, 2002, 319 am. Team of Maryland State Police, Montgomery County SWATOT officers special agents from the FBI's hostage rescue team arrest the snipers while they sleep in the car. It's fucking over. Investigators see that the car has a whole cut in the trunk right above the license plate, which allows a sniper to shoot from inside the vehicle. Investigators see that they had removed the sheet metal

between the back seat and trunk so they could easily go back and forth. And then they call it a rolling snipers nest. Inside the rolling snipers nest, they find the Bushmaster 223 scope owners manual with written impressions from one of the snipers demand notes, voice recorder used by Malvo and Muhammad to make extortion demands, a stolen laptop containing maps of shooting sites, getaway routes, various maps, walkie-talkies, other items. I mean, all the evidence they needed. John Muhammad arranged on a preliminary

federal weapons charge, Lee held his material witness and as a juvenile in Baltimore, when mildered learns that her husband is the DC sniper, she literally faints, literally passes the fuck out. The next day, or shortly after this, October 25th, Montgomery, Maryland prosecutors announced that the two shares would face six first degree murder charges and that they would seek the death penalty for John Muhammad. Now the second phase of work begins. Understanding why the snipers killed. Lee Mavel agrees to hours of interviews with law enforcement, psychologists, social workers.

Even though this kid had become a cold-blooded killer, I do feel sorry for him. I mean, man, he just really wanted to do what people said so they would be happy with him. Be proud of him. Let them be part of their family. Even if he had to fucking kill for them. They wanted to understand how exactly a boy from Jamaica became connected with a divorced man from Washington who already had kids. They learned that John had stepped in as a father

figure of sorts for Lee, and in that relationship evolved into something much different, something super toxic, crazy, and controlling, based on how the two men interacted when arrested officers initially assumed John and Lee were father and son. Lee appeared extremely distressed when separated from John. Lee was interviewed at the Montgomery County, where offsite family services facility in Rockville, Maryland. Shortly after Lee was placed in the interview room, he tried to escape, had to be forcefully restrained by officers. Lee refused to speak, would only make gestures and trace words on the table and the wall.

When told he would need to speak, he made a zip promotion over his mouth and refused to sign papers. He traced the words, I understand my rights, the police want to know about my thoughts, the police are trying to get what I am thinking. All right, when he did this, he made a noose and a hanging gesture, when asked if he wanted to hurt himself, he shrugged. He was about, he was asked about the $10 million demand,

when the interviewer suggested the shootings were not motivated by money, Lee tapped his head, made a turning a key gesture on his forehead. He was told that there was a lot of evidence left behind at the Conrad Johnson crime scene. The interviewer suggested that, you know, maybe things were left behind on purpose. Lee nodded that they were. He wanted to get caught. He wanted to be over, but he was just afraid to stand up to Papa John. At this point, Lee becomes willing to talk.

He takes responsibility for all the shootings and not sure why he added this, but said he would do it again if he had the chance. October 29th for junior prosecutors filed Capitol murder charges against both John and Lee. October 31st, ballistics linked the Bushmaster 223 to Hong-M Ballinger shooting. John and Lee charged with Capitol murder, but never tried for this particular killer. January 15, 2003, Fairfax County juvenile court judge Charles Mayfield rules that Lee Malvo will be tried as an adult for the murder of Linda Franklin. Kermetta Albrus, social worker of sorts, we met earlier, later the author of making the

making of Lee Boy Malvo gets involved in the case in February of 2003. John Strayer one of Lee's attorneys have requested her. He asked if she would assist. She had been recommended by a death penalty attorney in Virginia. They thought that she was also born in Jamaica. She could bring some cultural sensitivity to the team. She'd be appointed as an investigator because Virginia did not recognize the function

of a mitigation specialist at that time. Kermet is specialized in forensic social work. She assisted defense attorneys in conducting social history investigations and assessments of criminal defendants. Her job was to understand how the defendant's life was shaped by their criminal actions or how their life shaped their criminal actions. Cremeter was told that she needed to investigate, lease life in Jamaica and in Tika.

And they told this was going to prove challenging because he refused to talk to most people. Once he was able to work hard, establish a sense of trust, you know, through shared culture and ethnicity and was able to get him to talk to her. September 17 2003, Judge Jane Marum Rausch rules the death penalty will be possible for leave convicted. November 10th, Arraignment and jury selection began for Lee's trial for the murder of Linda Franklin. November 17th, John Muhammad found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, right?

They're moving this along quick, excuse me. A legal use of a firearm murdered with intent to terrorize the government or public and account of Capitol murder for the death of Dean Myers. John's attorneys argued that Lee was the only shooter, but the jury didn't agree. November 24, 2003, a jury recommends that John Mohamed be sentenced to death for the murder of Dean Harold Myers. December 18, Lee, a Malville found guilty of Capitol murder, terrorism and use of a firearm in Linda Franklin's death. March 9th, 2004, John Muhammad officially sentenced to death in Manassas, Virginia.

The jury finds that he will be a continuing, serious threat to society if allowed to live. John reads a statement to the judge saying, I had nothing to do with this. I just wanted better ingredients, better pizza. No, he said, uh, you do what you have to do and let me do what I have to do to defend myself. That's what he says. I have nothing to do with this. You do what you have to do and let me do what I have to do to defend myself.

What the fuck does that even mean? Listen, I understand you got a job, you need to do what you need to do. And what you need to do is to convict me and sends me to death. I get it, but you also have to let me do what I need to do for myself and what I need to do for myself and what I need to do is defend myself and not be killed.

The judge is like, what? No, I don't need to do any of that. You'll be defending nothing. Judge, judge, hear me on this. You sends me to death, that's what you do. But let me do what I do and what I do, I'm gonna use my karate to defend myself. Face five, if the execution comes to me,

he's getting fucking chopped. Face six. He's getting crank kicked. Kick flipped. Face seven. Eight. Judges like, no, you're gonna be shackled. And I don't even think you're using karate terms.

I'm pretty sure that last term was for a skateboard trick. Johnson's final six page document pleading for his life. Say, Muhammad was born an innocent infant, then became a child and a man who was buffeted by crushing poverty, neglect and abuse by war, and ultimately by the loss of his children in his marriage. His attorneys argued that his veteran status, lack of prior criminal record, should be considered as mitigating factors.

They won't be. March 10, 2004 Lee Maovo sentenced life in prison without parole for the murder of Linda Franklin. October 26, 2004 Lee Maovo takes a plea bargain for the murders of Kenneth Bridges in Caroline C. Well, sentenced life in prison without parole again. Washington State chooses not to prosecute Lee for the murder of Kenia Cook because the lack of aggravating factors that would increase the sentencing beyond the sentencing he's already received.

March 1, 2005, U.S. Supreme Court abolishes death penalty for minors. May 23, 2006, as part of his Montgomery County plea deal, Lee Mavel testifies against John Muhammad during another one of his trials. John Muhammad convicted of six counts of murder in Maryland. Lee testifies against him claiming that John killed the first C-vict killed the first six victims. We'll never know for sure who pulled the trigger in some of these murders because the blame game, you know, each guy played, they kept accusing each other. There were no other witnesses to give one accusation more weight than the other in many cases and both their fingerprints were all over the murder weapons.

October 10th, 2006 Lee Mavel confesses to six shootings in Montgomery County, Maryland, pleads guilty, Tucson, Arizona gives Lee immunity from prosecution after he confesses to the murder of Jerry Taylor in March 2002 since he'd already been found guilty of so many other fucking murders. November 8th, 2006 Lee ascends the life in prison without the possibility of parole in Montgomery County. November 10th, 2009, 49-year-old John Muhammad is executed in Girat, Virginia. They didn't waste a lot of time with him.

A lot of murderers stood on death row for over a decade, but this guy, they're like, that was fucking getting dead, it's fast we can't. I don't blame him. Governor Tim Cain denied a last minute request for clemency, Supreme Court declined intervene. John spent his final day with his Maryland attorney, Jay Windle Gordon. Gordon said he had a strong attitude. John maintained his innocence, did not show remorse, did extend his condolences to the victim's families. I'm sure they really appreciated that. Sure that meant a lot. For his final meal, he had a Papa John's epic pepperoni stuffed crust

with extra cheese for the unbelievable price of just $10 better ingredients better pizza Papa John's No, he had a chicken with red sauce and cake You spent the afternoon with some family as well. He'd written previously to his first wife Carol asked her to attend saying Carol I miss my family I for the past eight years. I don't want to be missed the day that these devils murdered my innocent black ass Fucking innocent. Uh, she didn't make it. She was busy. She had something really important to do like, uh, get her teeth cleaned, or maybe take a nap.

Papa John's first child, Lindbergh Williams, who was pro-death penalty before his dad's conviction and sentencing to death told CNN that he didn't change his mind about the death penalty. Now, not even when his father was executed. Uh, he'll say this later. He says, if you commit a crime, you can pay the time. He did say that he thought John regretted what he did at the end. Papa John's second wife, Milnerd, also wasn't able to attend. She probably was, you can pay the time. He did say that he thought John regretted what he did at the end. Papa John's second wife, Milner, also wasn't able to attend.

She probably was, she was busy. She had, there was like a new episode of Two and a Half Men or something. She told CNN that she hadn't seen John since the 2001 custody hearing, saying, I had emotionally detached from John when I asked him for a divorce. And my emotions were severed when he said that you have become my enemy. And as my enemy, I will kill you. I mean, that's fair. She said that she believed that she was the true target of the sniper attacks and blame

John's service and the Gulf War for changing him, saying he went from someone who was always happy, knew what direction he was going in, was focused to a person that was totally confused, depressed all the time, didn't know how to do or get to where he wanted to be. Damn. You know, I'm sure what he experienced there, I mean, yeah, did not help at all, but to blame it, I don't know. I just know we have a lot of veterans who listen to this show and based on how many emails we get, many of them have experienced combat and experienced serious PTSD. As far as I know, none of them have recruited the lonely and lost teenager and trained them to be an assassin and then gone in the cross-country fucking sniper

spree. If serving alone could do that to you, seemed like there would be way more murders. Guessing Papa John already had a lot wrong with him before he served overseas. And that a lot of terrible choices he made after he returned home, led him to doing what he ended up doing. Not saying what he went through wasn't incredibly traumatic or tragic

and didn't play a part, that it didn't really torment and change you, but probably can't be used as a scapegoat the way she kind of phrase it there. John was silent for the time you know the death chamber until his death he had no response when asked if he wished to make a last statement. John out of the death chamber at 8.58 pm and at 8.59 he fucking karate chafed his Papa John ass right out of that room. He went full Wesley snipes slash Steven's a goal blasted a few mother fuckers with fist of fury maybe some huddukens he kicked flip to gun

out of an officer's hand used the you know that to a hostage situation is his way out of the prison thought to have snuck his ass out of the country made it back to the Caribbean where he is now running that orphanage faith and mother fuckers is complete. No, no, he was quickly strapped to the gurney showed no emotion as it happened as for his last words again didn't give any 906 907 began twitching blinking 908 PM. He's still. And then he died. V. Elite, the injection at 9 11. Here he timing. John's defensive journey, John Sheldon, read a statement, we dimple, we deeply sympathize with the families and loved ones who have to relive the pain loss of those terrible days. Our sympathies also extended the children of John Muhammad, who with humility and self-consciousness, today lost a father and a member of their

family. To all those families and the countless citizens across the country who bore witness and continue to do so to those tragic events, we renew our condolences and we offer our prayers for a better future. And also this weekend from Friday 8 a.m. through Sunday night at midnight, Papa John's better and green is better pizza, $10 for Canadian bacon and pineapple Hawaiian special, $5 for the second one. I know. Paul Ebert, the prosecutor who got John's death, I'll stop trying to do that. Yeah, shut the fuck up, Papa John.

Paul Ebert, the prosecutor who got John's death penalty conviction, said, he died very peacefully, much more than most of his victims. I felt a sense of closure and I hope that they did too John promises kids he'd call on his execution day They spent the whole day waiting by the phone and none of them received a call. So that's cool. That's a nice final act Papa John incredible father right up until the bitter end July 25 2012 now Supreme Court rules at sentencing a juvenile to life without parole violates the eighth amendment In June of 2013, Maryland and Virginia Federal Courts received a petition from Lee Mowell's attorneys requesting to vacate his life sentences. In June of 2014, Lee's petition rejected by a Virginia federal judge. Lee immediately files an appeal.

January 26, 2016, Supreme Court makes a decision in Montgomery versus Louisiana, determined that the 2012 Miller versus Alabama decision could be applied retroactively. Miller versus Alabama ruled that life sentences for defendants aged 17 or younger should be barred. For all but the rarest of juvenile offenders, those whose crimes you feel like permanent in cordial ability. May 26, 2017, Lee's cases sent to Chesapeake in Spots of Aini County for resentencing after a federal judge overturns his two life sentences in Virginia. Lee had argued that a census did not align with the current Supreme Court decision. Judge Raymond Jackson found that Lee unknowingly gave up his eighth amendment

rights. Saying there's no evidence in the record to suggest that petitioner was aware of the existence of this right, much less that he attended to relinquish or abandon it when he agreed to a sentence of life in prison without parole. Paul LaRoufa testified in Virginia in support of Lee's recentencing to life with the possibility of parole. That's fucking crazy. This is that 55 year old dude who Lee shot five times from close range to the 22 caliber handgun outside of Marjolena, restaurant in Clinton, Maryland September 5, 2002. Paul told Northern Virginia magazine later, one of the definitions of forgiveness is that

you get rid of anger and resentment toward the person who's done something to you. Because if you don't, then you're miserable. People don't take that into consideration. They think you should feel the same way, have the same anger. I think there's good reasons why use should be considered. They're doomed to life in prison. There is no hope, and I guess I'm in favor of a system that would be a little more fair. He and Lee obviously have spoken before he made that statement and he become familiar

with Lee's story and Lee clearly made quite the good impression on him. June 21st, 2018, based on Miller versus Alabama, a federal appeals court agrees that the four life sentences Lee received in Virginia must be vacated. March 18, 2019, the Supreme Court agrees to hear Lee's case challenging, you know, more life sentences. October 16, 2019, the Supreme Court. Here's arguments in Lee's case. February 24, 2020, the government of Virginia signs a bill making juvenile offenders sentenced to life in prison eligible for parole after 20 years. Because of that new law, Lee Mavel agrees to drop his request for resentencing with the Supreme court.

February 26, 2020, Lee Mavle sentenced his Virginia Community life with the possibility of parole. March 10, 2020, Lee Mavle married in a prison ceremony to an unidentified woman. Carmen Alborist told the Washington Post she's an absolutely wonderful individual who had begun visiting Lee in 2018. Craig S. Coulee, one of Lee's original attorneys, called her a very impressive young lady, educated. Her eyes are wide open. I believe they are soulmates. She sees the good and sees Lee as I've always seen him.

How I think the world would have seen him had Muhammad not taken over his life. Lee Maavo currently 37 years old and carst graded at Red Onion Prison, a super max near the North Carolina border. According to some recent sources, he'll be eligible for parole in Virginia later this year. But he's also convicted of murder in Maryland.

In April 2021, Maryland banned life sentences for juvenile's, though, and Mavos sued for relief in the Maryland Court of Appeals agreed to review his case. Oral arguments began in February of this year. Decision expected any day now, this can be applied retroactively. So there is still a chance. He could live out a good portion of his life as a free man. And that'll take us out of this time suck timeline. Good job, soldier. You made it back.

Barely. What a fucking twisted tale. Before I share some final thoughts, time for another real quick sponsor break. Today's time suck is brought to you. By the LS Don't, Whistling Rehabilitation Institute. Have you recently forgotten how to whistle? Too much drugs?

Not listening to the right singolums. Maybe life has just gotten in the way. Perhaps you're stuck in an impressive employment environment that doesn't allow you to whistle while you work. Well, be confused and sad no longer. Get ready to wet that whistle once more. Soon you'll be back to putting a little Andy Griffith back in your day. You'll be yacht rocking that whistle across the water.

And you'll be back in the whistle and saddle getting good, bad, and ugly again. and ugly again. Easy on the ass at Space Cowboys. Less taps. More whistle. Just a little fun little nod to last week, meetsax. Hope that whistle didn't fucking blow your ears out. Hell no, I'm not. Let's wrap up this week now. The DC snipers were 41-year-old John Allen, Muhammad 17-year-old Lee Boyd Malvo. This unlikely pair responsible for 10 deaths, three injuries,

and three weeks of terror in the DC area, with seven killed, seven others injured elsewhere in the weeks leading up to the final attacks. As authorities and attorneys began to unravel their relationship, they were shocked and disturbed by John Muhammad's influence over Leah boy he wasn't related to. John and Leah just met two years before his arrests in those two years. John established total control and domination over Leah. He was so desperate for love that he was willing to do anything for John. John had fully accepted, you know, or Leah had fully accepted John as his father.

John and Leah went on a cross country rampage of robberies and shootings, all with the gold of killing Papa John's ex, Mildred, getting away with it because her murder would then just seem just one of many random killings. And then getting John's kids back, also maybe getting $10 million to open up some strange, weird fucking orphanage of 140 kids or something. John and Lee robbed and murdered business owners and employees from money to fund their journey to DC.

Ultimately John did not succeed in this plan, just brought a lot of needless death and terror to residents of the DC area and to a lot of places along the way. So fuck Papa John, glad the state killed him. And I'm also glad that Lee has not been executed. Of all the killers we have covered, Lee Boyd Malbo is the one I think I feel the most sorry for. I mean, do kill a lot of people in co-op blood.

But the way he was manipulated into all of this, I mean, goddamn, he was now raping and torturing to fulfill dark sexual desires he was, and just about the most fucked up way possible, of course, helping his father figure get his family back. Dude had been abandoned so many times as a kid, left with random relatives or with no relatives, while mom left the country for work

or just didn't have the space to take care of him with a dad nearby who didn't seem interested in him at all. He'd form attachments, then he ripped away from those over and over again, by the time he was 15, he'd been to a dozen different schools in several countries. Live with so much poverty, desperately just wanted some stability. Why wanted a dad to love him?

Seems like a truly good kid growing up. Then he happened to run into a fucking psycho who fulfilled his fatherly role for him. That evening when he was just 15 years old, dude started hardcore brainwashing him shortly thereafter before he turned 16. He became John's sole focus up in Billingham when he was 16, so much more brainwashing, so much.

And then he went on this killing spree. And now he's been in prison for over half his life for what he did. He's the first mass murder we have looked into who I would understand releasing from prison at some point. He's apologized to prison for over half his life for what he did. He's the first mass murder we have looked into who I would understand releasing from prison at some point. He's apologized to so many victims, gotten them to testify for him, seems earnest. You know, I know apologizing is bringing anybody back from the dead, but I also don't think

he would did, you know, he would have done what he did if you removed John, Alan Muhammad from his past. I don't think he would do any of this again. Outside of pleasing John, I doubt he enjoyed doing what he did. He seemed to intentionally evidence to get caught. He just wanted to please his coat leader. However, I also don't have a problem if he does stay in prison for the rest of his life

because no matter what the circumstance, he did kill a bunch of innocent people. He did pull the trigger many times. He chose to. And you know, nothing he can do now can bring anyone back. But just, you know, man, what now can bring anyone back but just you know man What a shitty hand he was dealt at birth and what a terrible wild card he happened to be dealt when he met Papa John So take care of your kids meet sacks, right?

Lee never becomes who he became if his actual father is later on maybe John wouldn't have Can't became who he became if his dad was sitting around You know Lee wouldn't have become who he became if his fucking mom would have put his needs above her own. So take care of your kids. And let's get to today's top five takeaways. Time, suck, top five takeaway. Number one, John Allen, Mohamed, was a normal family man for most of his life,

or at least kind of normal. I had to be abandoned by his own father at a young age. All he wanted was to have a family of his own. He had kids who he loved deeply. He was an active in carrying father, a little too controlling, but active in carrying. When he came home from deployment in the Middle East, he was a different man.

He became emotionally abusive, extremely controlling of his children. His obsession with control spiraled into something dangerous when he lost custody of his children. And John started to form the beginning of his plan for the DC sniper attacks. Number two, Lee Boyd Malvo was born in Kingston, Jamaica.

Jamaica, man. He was kind of respectful little boy. Unfortunately, he had an extremely unstable home life. He was abandoned by his mom and father at critical periods in his life, abandoned over and over again, desperate for love and stability. When John Muhammad entered his life, he took on a fatherly role, offered Lee everything. He wanted love, family, home, well, kind of, home of his elders sometimes. Lee was willing to submit to John's rigorous training routines to have all that. And then incredibly, also willing to become John's own personal hitman.

Number three, John Muhammad Lee Maavo met purely by chance. Lee was an antiga to live with his mom, when he James, John Muhammad kidnapped his kids, after his wife got a restraining order against him fled to Antigua The two ran into one another at Zaza electronics Well electronics store on the island. They met again when Una purchased a fake visa from John Lee quickly bonded with Papa John John's children and there's strange and unhealthy relationship developed from there Number four, although we often think of the DC sniper attacks as 22 days a tear

John and Lee actually committed shootings across the country when they made their wage the DC area in search of Mildred killing a total of 17 and injuring total 10. And number five, new info, there might even be more darkness to John and Lee's sick relationship that we didn't already cover. In an exclusive TV interview with today's Matt Lauer back in October of 2012. A decade after the murder, almost three years after John Muhammad's execution, Lee Boyd Malvo, my god, I can't talk about that. Claim that he was sexually abused by John. For the entire period when I was 15 until I got arrested, I was sexually abused by John Muhammad. Malvo said, I felt a sense of shame

and I just said, that's something that I would never tell anyone. And to a certain extent, up until that point, I just really couldn't handle it. Malvo also told Lauer that there are victims of the shooting spirit that have yet to be identified. Malvo additionally told today producers that this would be his final interview about his crime before speaking about the families of his victims. He said, I would share with them what I've used for myself. Please do not allow my actions and the actions of Muhammad

to hold you hostage and continue to victimize you for the rest of your life. If you give those images and thoughts that power, it will continue to inflict that suffering over and over and over and over and over again. Do not give me or him that much power. Malville detailed his claims of sexual abuse, including by a babysitter at the age of five

and then later by relatives until he was 10, which he confided in Muhammad. He said, I just basically divulged everything. I saw him to be an excellent listener. So in doing so without ambivalence, without holding anything back, I provided him with a blueprint. He knew exactly what motivated me, what I was looking for, what was lacking. Mavald didn't try and use any of this to excuse what he did, either just to explain. He referred to himself also as a monster, saying when someone cannot go beyond himself and begin to consider how their actions affect others and are solely motivated by their own self-interest, we call them psychopaths. Malvin and I that he was speaking out of speaking out in order that he was not speaking out

in order to garner sympathy or to try to get a reduced prison sentence. He said, I seriously doubt this is going to change anything as far as my life goes. I've come to grasp that what I have to look forward to is life in prison. Obviously, this is before some recent court reversals. He said, I wouldn't wish this on anyone. It was intended to punish and it's effective. It is complete deprivation. I don't see outside. I have no contact with animals, plants, people. Bob Myers, brother of Dean Myers killed by the styrofoam of the gas station Virginia, spoke to NBC chief justice correspondent Pete Williams and said we recognize that he was tremendously under the control of John Mojabud and he was

Probably a good word would be brainwashed and since that time he's gotten as we understand some mentoring some help and it's had years to recognize what he did Our understanding is that he given the chance would not have chosen to take the same course again, but he can't alter that that. The DC sniper attacks a cult of two has been sucked. Now for some thanks. Thanks to our bad magic productions team here. Thanks to Quinn, Queen of bad magic, Lindsey Cummins. Thanks for Reverend Dr. Joe Paisley for production. Thanks to Bidelixer for upkeep on the time suck app, Logan the art warlock Keith, creating

merch at badmagicmerge.com, running socials with Lizzy and Chantras Hernandez. Thanks to Olivia Lee for the initial research this week. Thanks to the all-seeing eyes moderating the cult of the curious, two private Facebook page. Thanks to Becky Jesse, the mod squad, and Reverend Dr. Joe, making sure Discord keeps running smooth. And a lot of fun over on Reddit. I'd like to check that out from time and time to time to get the week.

Next week, we cover the 1972 crash of Uruguayan Air Force flight 571, aka Miracle Flight 571, aka the Andes Flight Disaster aka the Miracle of the Andes. Is the plane supposed to be flying so close to the mountains? That was the last thing a passenger of that flight said before the plane crashed in the mountains. Plane was carrying 45 passengers, most of which were members of the Uruguayan rugby team, along with a few friends and family. One woman who bought a seat to attend her daughter's wedding.

It was supposed to be two-hour flight to Chile. Chile, for a rugby match, turned into an ordeal that would test the surviving pastures' physical and mental strength, and their will to survive. For those who didn't die in the initial crash, they'd suffer for 72 days in the Valley of Tears. Only 16 of the 45 would come out alive. The passengers of Flight 571 faced brutally cold temperatures, injuries, sickness, sun blindness, thirst, and starvation so severe, they began to eat the bodies of their friends and family who lay in the snow next to them. Tragedy after tragedy struck the survivors until the small

group set off on foot on Day 60, determined to hike out of the Andes or die trying What the surviving 16 went through is something very very few people will ever experience in their lifetimes Thank Nimrod and we'll explore the full story next week Right now, let's head on over to a very fun a week of time sucker updates Updates get get your time, sucker updates. Start now with a bang from Whipple addict, Corey Morgan, who writes, Hey, Danny Crew, my buddy and I have been joking around making our own Whipple ads, such as Whipple Basic White Girl Edition and Whipple Soccer Mom Edition.

These got me inspired to write one for all the dads out there in Louis Fathers' Day, being right around the corner. Feel free to change it up if you need be. My dad didn't even change it. But it would be awesome if you could get it in before Fathers' Day. If you like it, I can send you other ones.

I'm getting them right after. You'll absolutely laugh your ass off, Karen Tee. I did. Thanks for checking it out. Hope to hear from you. And here we go. It's 5 a.m. You're tired as fuck. You don't wanna work on And here we go. It's 5 a.m.

You're tired as fuck. You don't want to work on your yard and deal with the mundane bullshit of suburban life. You need the new Wipple Father's Day edition! Wipple's Father's Day edition will have you push those white new balances to a gear they haven't seen in 20 years. You'll have so much energy you won't need to use to sell for a hell of your lawnmower. That's putty shit. You'll be pushing your riding lawnmower.

Whipple follows the addition. We'll get you the giant sack of man not too need to walk over and punch Dave right in the fucking face. Next time he says your lines aren't straight. Then take that sack of mom wipeier's, suck them on wipeier's, show her side of you shit and scenes and she started dating.

And you'll still have time to play cat with those little crotch goblins you call your kids. You'll be barbecuing some baby back ribs, we'll make you other dads look like baby back bitches! Whipple's father's day edition will turn you into the Jean Short wear monster you've always dreamt to be. Fuck you, fuck your family, drink Whipple! Father's Day edition! Now in Craftsman Lotmore Cherry and to Walt Limitate Flavors.

Bravo, Cory! Bravo! Fuckin' love it. You keep sending those in. You whippled love in son of a bitch. I didn't change anything. That was all Cordy Morgan. Next up, fellow tripping sack.

Sarah Wheeler has a quick hitter for us, made me laugh. Sarah writes, hello, I'm a relatively new listener. Started Binging episodes during early 2020, during COVID, but I really love this show. Thank you. I have a bizarre sense of humor

and time suck really fits that niche. Anyway, I had a few random thoughts about two recent episodes. One, Bogwon sounds exactly like Ka from the original Disney jungle book. The scene where he's hypnotizing mogul could quite literally be Bogwon speaking. I didn't think of that, but totally agree. Two, I really enjoyed your description of the acid trip. I did it for the first time about three weeks ago. And when I came home from the concert, I was at, I had to your description of the asset trip. I did it for the first time about three weeks ago. And when I came home from the concert, I was at, I had to walk up the five flights of Starras to my apartment. I was actually trapped in an MC Esher painting.

For who knows how long? I'm just so glad my neighbors went away to witness me stuck in a Starras well for whatever amount of time it was. Love the show, thanks for the weekly knowledge and laughs, Sarah. Sarah, yes, yes again. Bogwon does sound like ha, nailed that.

Also, I died when I first read your MC Esher painting visual there. Yeah, that makes so much sense. It truly feels sometimes like you're gonna be trapped forever in certain moments. Like sometimes I can get that same distance distortion from a lot of shrooms as well. It's so surreal.

And I know exactly what you're talking about. I just feel like the fucking stairs, like you're just gonna be lost in an infinite stair loop. You probably actually walked up those stairs relatively normally. You just felt like you were trapped there for endless amount of time due to the way that LSD distorts your brain's ability to process time correctly. It's such a weird drug. Now a sweet message from a sweet sack, Joey Krab, right? Dear Master Sucker, Bojangles Choo toy, lover of Lucifino, ward of triple M. I've been catching up on past episodes in a very

convoluted way. I go back about 10 episodes, listen to them, and repeat. I just got to the Pennhurstate Hospital Suck, and that one hits close to home. My son is autistic, and on the severe end of the spectrum, not a lot of people have experienced with the severity my son deals with. Eli's nonverbal has a lot of behavioral issues. Bangs is head on anything he can when he's upset, it can be a wall, floor, knee, one of us if he's able. We recently had to make the hardest decision in our lives to send him to a facility to get him the helping needs. In the Penn Herzog, you spoke about how we have made a lot of strides for people that are

intellectually disabled, but things are still pretty rough. The place my son is currently in is a six week program that is geared to specifically, or specifically for teens with autism that are in crisis. Or the place he was, yeah, he was there for eight weeks and when he came home last Monday, his behaviors were worse than before he left. We were heartbroken to say the least.

His first night in home, I had to put him in a hold to protect him from himself multiple times. In six days, he put three holes in the wall and a dent my wife's car with his forehead. Damn, he attacked my wife, knocked her down to the ground twice before she was able to get him inside the gates so that she could help get to her phone and call for help. My son's 11. Over five feet tall, he's a big boy, only getting bigger. We had to break

down and send him back to the program to protect him and my wife. Also, except the possibility that residential care may be the best option for my son. One thing you said that I appreciate it greatly was your comment about when the workers of Paners had to put people in restraints, you said, yeah, well, what else would you do? What would you do? Yeah. As someone who has to regularly make this decision to put my son in a restraining hold, sometimes in public, it isn't something I do lightly. I love my son more than anything in the world. Sometimes we have to protect those we love even from themselves. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Fortunately, most people in my life have been amazingly supportive.

The program my son is full of a bunch of wonderful people to take amazing care of my son. When other programs have washed our hands of him because his behavior made it too difficult to deal with, they accepted him back with huge smiles on their faces because they missed him while he was gone. My wife and I wrote a book about our journey a couple years ago called, A Puzzle Have Finished. We're Christians, so it's written from a Christian perspective, but we tried not to be too preachy. We just wanted to use it to help people. We're huge fans of time, suck, all your stand up. So, you know, we can't be too bad, right? Nah, you can't. Come

on. I would love to send you a copy. It would be, if you're interested in reading it, my wife is a wonderful meat sack that actually got me listening to the suck. I wouldn't be able to do this life without her. We've shared highs, high highs and low lows, and yet after 13 years of marriage with a child, a special need where as strong as ever. Love it! Hell is the fena. I'm really sorry for the long message.

I didn't mean to even ramble on this long. Long live the suck, Joey Crab. PS, during the New World Order sucks, ited to the internet segment. You got hung up on the name Yeshua. And to clear it up, Yeshua is the Hebrew name of Jesus, like Jose versus Joseph. All right. Well, thank you, Joey Krab. If you'd like to send in a copy of a puzzle half finished, I mean, we'd love to have it in our growing library. I hope other people who would like to learn more

more about autism, you know, go out there and buy it. You sound like a truly amazing loving, you know, parents, both of you loving parents. I can't imagine how hard this process has been on you, both sounds like you do everything you can, as best you can. And that's, you know, parents, both of you loving parents. I can't imagine how hard this process has been on you, both sounds like you do everything you can, as best you can, and that's, you know, the best anyone can do. So thanks for being fucking great people in the world that always can use more great people. And yes, you are. I am embarrassed I got hung up on that. I thought I knew that. Apparently that week I didn't hug your wife for me. And yeah, and I hope you two sell a ton of books and you know help a lot of other people. And last update now from a very funny, very tough, meat sack, Izzy, a favorite of Lucifina

and Izzy writes, Hello, Master Sucker, King of the Freaky and Duke of the Disgusting. I'm emailing to comment on some similarities in a lot of your true crime episodes. Quick warning in case you read this on the podcast, this email contains self-harmed details. Now onto the creepy similarity, blood. A fetish for blood and cutting is far more common than you may think. It's not my thing, and like you,

even though I try not to kink shame, it is concerning to be sexually attracted to a concerning thing. When I was 19 through 21, I struggled with two things, cutting myself and random sex. My bipolar disorder has given me a bad habit of hypersexuality and risky sex, which means the men I used to end up with were not, let's say, top tier. I love the way you wrote that. Multiple men were turned on by myself, harm scars on my thighs, and it freaked me out.

They would kiss, touch, and crest my scars. One guy even asked me to make a new cut for him, freaky. Hearing how the monsters are murders and your sucks often have the same fetish disturbs me, makes me wonder if any of those men I was with were psychopaths. I genuinely feel like I dodged multiple bullets, I may as well be Kiano and the Matrix. Thank you for doing what you do, your transgender episode gave me the courage to tell my mom on bisexual. Listen to the podcast, it's lifted me up during dark times, proud to say that I'm now three months clean regarding self-harm. Never stop making people laugh and think, you bring so many people together, we are grateful for you and the whole bad magic crew.

All this is you dumb, can't wait till can, you don't. Hail the sexy beast, Luciferina, praise B to fluff butt, butt, but jangles, and to hell with the devil. To hell, yeah. Adios, cock suckers, peepers, spaceless, or dummy. Yours gratefully, isers space lizard dummy yours gratefully is he well Thank you. Is he three months clean good on you and and wait to be so introspective and deal with your shit So many people don't and so glad you told your mom. I hope a wait felt like it was lifted and obviously hope that she Accepted, you know exactly who you are and yeah, I really don't want to kink shame

But I just I just want people to love respect and take care of themselves So they lead you know happier more fulfilling lives When I kink shame those little moments it is coming from a place of good the intentions are there I have no idea of a true link exists between a blood fetish and some serial killers But you know like you pointed out anecdotally sure seems to be there seem to be connection right that version of parapheria Makes a lot of sense because it does come up a lot. And thanks for sharing your story. I mean, who knows who you just might have inspired to tell someone in their life, who they really are, or to reduce the risk they put themselves in.

So thank you and thank everyone who writes in each and every week. Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. Another Bad Magic Productions podcast in the bag, building towards episode 500 now. Please don't brainwash a teenager desperate for parental affection into an assassin and then have them start killing strangers to help you get away with killing your ex. Why if this week?

Just leave that kid alone. Get some therapy. Keep on sucking. ["Pomp and Circumstance"] Unmogic productions. No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't think it'll be a problem. I think I think we can still go Papa John's a sponsor.

And what did I say? Better, better ingredients, you know, better murder. Okay, you know, okay, yeah, that's, I mean, still get their name out there. Still get their name out there. Better ingredients, better sniping, you know, I think we have a real shot at them still. And I do want to look into sure shot I don't zone or you know whatever the fuck they were and see if we can maybe we can do like a sure shot Sure shot killing with pizza Papa Johns. I don't know. So I'm gonna hybrid or something

No, okay, all right. Well, you know, some sometimes ship sail Okay, all right, well, you know, sometimes ship sail.