Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 325 - IHOPKC: Cult or Cult Incubator?

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Evangelical End Times pastor Mike Bickle founded the International House of Prayer in 1999, later renamed IHOPKC, in Kansas City after saying God had told him to do so in a series of prophecies. Former members have referred to it as a cult. Is it? Or is it an organization, with its focus on modern day prophecy,  where cult leaders can easily recruit followers?  In 2012, IHOPKC member Bethany Deaton was found dead, and investigators looking into her suicide (originally thought to be a murder case), uncovered a small offshoot cult within IHOPKC lead by Tyler Deaton, a charismatic young man and IHOPKC adherent who felt, like Mike Bickle, that he was also a modern prophet. He also felt that God had, like with Bickle, tasked him with helping raise an army of spiritual warriors to do battle with Satan's minions in an imminent, apocalyptic showdown between good and evil. No shortage of supposed prophets in another cult, cult, cult edition... of Timesuck. Get tour tickets at dancummins.tv Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/_OlTMeKCuTkMerch: https://www.badmagicmerch.comDiscord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard?  Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcastSign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits.

For false Christ and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive. On the book of Matthew 24, 24, the international house of prayer was founded in May of 1999, based on supposed prophecy, based on one man believing that God had spoken to him, and given him prophecies, centered around a call to pray without ceasing in order to strengthen God's army and help usher in the second coming. Since September 19th, 1999, IHOP KC has offered access to a 24-7 prayer room. They literally have not stopped praying, rotating in new musicians as needed to keep the musical

praying coming nonstop and they claim they will not stop praying until Christ returns, until Doomsday. IHOP KC is an unusual religious institution. It's not its own distinct religious denomination. It's not exactly a church. It has a church. The four-runner church, but IHOP KC, as an organization,

describes itself as a mission's base. If God truly does have an army here on Earth, think of IHOP KC as a boot camp, an important military base where soldiers are trained in a way to fight demonic forces and help God win the final battle of good versus evil. I have cases mission is to change modern understanding and expression of Christianity to inspire more of the world to follow Christ, to strengthen its brand of evangelical modern prophecy-based

Christianity. To raise up friends of the bridegroom for runner messengers to prepare the bride for Christ's return to be part of the great commission. Jesus is most faithful adherence or disciples tasked with bringing his true word to the world to recruit the most soldiers for the final battle. Everything is based when you dig far enough into it on bringing Christ back and beating the forces of evil. And I hop KC's vision of Christ, uh, pretty bloody, pretty violent to war your deity who will literally slay nonbelievers. There will be blood. All the sweet prayers going on 24 seven in the prayer rooms are not designed just to uplift your spirit and strengthen your faith. They are fuel of a sword, fuel to strengthen a god they want

to literally come to earth and destroy billions of non-believers as part of the second coming. I have KC has been criticized for some of their church theology, the bridegroom paradigm, the belief that they are an army of God's warriors bringing about the second coming, the belief of prophetic experiences. Although I have KC doesn't show up on any lists of blatant cults like many past time suck subjects, many Christians and non-Christians alike have described a cultish atmosphere of sorts about the place. Some former members feel like the organization is

definitely a cult with a capital C. Other former members say the organization is nothing like a cult at all in any respect. Founded in Kansas City, Missouri, and now reaching all over the world is IHOPKC a cult. Who is the founder? What do they believe? Why do they believe it? What was the organization's role? If indeed it had any role in the tragic death of a member in 2012. And if it's a cult, is it a dangerous cult at that? We'll cover all these questions in more. In another entertaining cult, cult, cult, Doomsday edition of Time Suck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to Time Suck.

Oh! Oh! You're listening to Time Suck. Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Happy Monday, meet Saks. Welcome to the cold to the curious Dan Cummins. Rat got high priest. Lord Bumpus is ultra boy and you are listening to Time Suck. Hail Nimrod, Helus of Fina, praise good boy, bow jangles and glory be to triple M. A couple quick things and then we'll just get right into it. One is, yeah, my voice is still not back. And from having the cold, it just won't go away. That so many of us have had here in virus bill of cordaline Idaho now.

And then it went to influenza A. Test the positive for that a couple of days ago. Not contagious for the first time today. Basically even sleeping and doing a little bit of podcast prep the last couple of days. So one of these days, I think my voice will return to normal, hopefully, by this weekend shows, hopefully, hopefully, by my special taping here Minneapolis in a little over a week. The whole month in November, just everyone around here is sick.

But yeah, the special taping, my other announcement is about that. In Minneapolis, the Saturday, December 10th, another 50 tickets have just been released for both shows. Early in late show, 50 tickets each. The cameras did not take up as much room as expected. So that's why those are being released now. Once they're gone, there will be no more. Please go to dncomas.tv if you want to be part of the parkway,

theater taping, I would appreciate it. I don't want to eat randoms grabbing those tickets last minute. Hopefully fans only. And that taping will be my last day of the year. And then I'll get back to promoting the Burn It All Down 2023 tour next week. Now for the year's final official merch release. How about a total rebrand of our favorite peanut butter

brands? That's right. Albert's peanut butter. It's got to make over. The new collection includes a new tea and two colors, a hoodie, wall art, coffee mug, and killer eight by five by eight. Yeah, point five by 11 sticker sheet. Head on over to badmaticmurch.com. Check out some hot steamy showbiz. Now also a bear evil brand. Also, we have been hit with price increase after price increase in our costs for quite a while behind the scenes with merch. As inflation and supply chain problems

have, you know, obviously affected basically all goods. We've been able to hold the prices, you know, steady since the pre pandemic days, but the rising cost of literally everything has made it impossible to continue to do so with the same pricey model and be profitable. So go forward. Well, shirts shirts are gonna increase about five bucks, fleeces, about 10, wish we didn't have to do that, but it's, you know, we can't hold off any longer. The jump is not for greed,

it's just to get the margins back to where they were industry standard wise a couple of years ago. So truly appreciate all the support from each and every one of you with the merch over the years, just know we fought out these increases for as long as we could and going forward, we'll do our best to, you know, continue to do that and bring you affordable and quality weekly merch. Now let's get into a fascinating episode, hope my voice holds out for it.

Here's how I'm going to break down today's topic. First, I want to lay out some testimony by a former member who does think that I, ob KC, is for sure cult. And that they were a cult member. Then I want to explain founder Mike Bickles' vision of an exceptionally warrior-like Christ. After that, I'll lay out the overall structure of IHOP KC, built to bring about this reckoning going over their prayer room, basic beliefs, prophetic history, that they base their mission on, etc. Then we'll get into the timeline, learn more about their founder,

also about the troubling case of the suicide of IHOP, KC adherent Bethany Deaton, and her husband Tyler, a self-appointed IHOP KC apostle who seems to have definitely been a cult leader of sorts. Their story illustrates what a dangerous game it can be to play, to preach that any of us can become God's prophets in preparation for a final battle.

So now let's get started. Cult. Cult. Cult. All right, so the following is a testimony of a young woman named Ariel, who spent time as an intern at IHOP. Ariel, uh, convinced that IHOP, aka I IHOP KC is their name changed or transitioned into is occult. I wouldn't only want to read such a big passage from just one source, but her complaints do mirror those I've read from others online and she lays her concerns out in such a well-structured manner. I don't want to mess with it and tinker with her story. So this was all posted online back in April of 2012.

worth her story. So this was all posted online back in April of 2012. It was a year I turned 23. I was bright-eyed, excited, and full of hope and anticipation. Sure, I'd been through some rough stuff, but I knew that the Lord was the keeper of my life, and I was heading into a new season of trusting him deeper. I was moving to Kansas City. My long awaited 14-year dream of being in Kansas City to be part of Mike Bickle's ministry, which had now branched into an international house of prayer, was finally materializing into reality. I had big hopes and dreams and wanted nothing but to serve my God with everything. Since I was 12 years old, my family and I had driven the three-hour trek to Kansas City

for conferences at the church Mike Bickle passed her at the time. It is known by various names as they change different stages. Kansas City Fellowship, Metro Vineyard Fellowship, and Metro Christian Fellowship. My spiritual roots had in many ways grown from the times that I spent in these gatherings, and what I felt got imparted to my life when I was there. I had been around marinating in the environment, for about 14 years. So I knew a lot about the history, but led to what it is now known as IHOP, the International House of Prayer. I remember one of the first times Mike shared his vision for starting IHOP.

Many left Metro with Mike when he stepped down as Senior Pastor to help support its startup. So fast forward, IHOP was still within its first five years of operation, and I was captivated by what I saw and heard. If there was a poster child that endorsed Iop, and who was convinced it was the best thing going, that would have been me. I say all of this to lay a backdrop for what follows. Along journey and a lot of waiting proceeded the decision to move to Kansas City. My family and I unanimously agreed that after much prayer was the right timing, so we sold or gave away half of what we owned, packed up the rest and moved to the utopia of what

we thought would be the greatest spiritual adventure of our lives. I had a background in the arts, music, dance, etc. and couldn't wait to get involved so I could really just feel like I belong there. Not just a visitor hanging in the periphery and coming for conferences, I wanted to get in. When we arrived on moving day, the community, we were hoping to be a part of and the support of those who we knew from IHOP appeared to be, we found it quite lacking. We were told that to obtain moving help from IHOP, we had to hire them at a ridiculously

hourly rate, $20 per person, per hour. And again, that is back in prior to 2012, prices, which we could not afford. When the neighbors who lived next door found out it was just us and we had no help moving in, their family came over and helped us unpack our moving truck for a prox with the next three hours. For no charge, just to be good neighbors. Oh, and did I mention they weren't even believers? They had compassion on our predicament and carry boxes and hauled furniture without complaining once. They simply smiled and said, welcome to the neighborhood. Do you get a pause for a second? I love how shocked she is at these nice people weren't even believers.

I mean, can you believe it? I mean, these people who didn't even believe the same thing as us, they actually helped us. They didn't come just like, I don't know, try and stab us and, you know, and slice our throats and drink our blood and perform rituals or something. they actually helped us. They didn't come just like, I don't know, try and stab us and, you know, and slice our throats and drink our blood and perform rituals or something. They actually helped us. That's crazy. I never expected that. The unrelated climate we had seen hints of in the past became rapidly obvious upon our

relocation to IHOP KC. There was a lot of talk about community, but everyone I met was so tunnel-visioned on always being in the prayer room that they didn't want to socialize or make time to build real relationships with people. There was a relational vacuum in that disconnect I felt upon my arrival was overwhelming. This was a significant concern in my family, but we rationalized it with, oh well, we just haven't been here long enough. Eventually we'll feel more connected and involved and we'll see the relational community that I hopped, advertise it here. Just give it time. Within a month I joined the one thing internship, which is an intensive six month long internship program for 18

to 25 years. I really felt it was what I should do and had the support of my family that this was a great thing for me. They also felt it was a great way for me to connect to the ministry we had all moved here to be a part of. So our family's income tax return went towards the steep $4,500 tuition fee for the program and I came on board in August. I was full of excitement and felt that things were finally coming together for me. At least that's how it appeared. This is where it all began for me. A cult? Strong word you might say and you are correct. It is not a word I use lightly or carelessly to label anything. But much prayer, time and years of research and personal experience have brought me to the conclusion that I can say confidently that the root system or foundation

that IHOP is built on follows the basic premises and signs of a cult religious group. When I first left IHOP, I went through a severe culture shock that is hard to put into words. And I began studying the signs of I went through a severe culture shock that is hard to put into words. And I began studying the signs of cult fallout and the things that cult members go through after leaving a cult. My eyes began to open to what I had been a part of and recently came out of. Below I have listed some common signs of cult operation. Below that my side and short examples of my personal experiences at IHOP which illustrate these particular signs in IHOP's day-to-day practice. After six years of being out of IHOP, I still hold not, I still hold to my position

that it is a dangerous place for people's hearts and I've seen much destruction of families, relationships, and marriages of those who have been involved with this movement. I appreciate you are taking the time to read and prayerfully consider the research and personal testimony I have included below. So now here we go. Right, Ariel lays out her concerns as evidence of IHOP, you know, KC,

being a cult, you know, in a variety of different ways. She starts a destructive cult tends to be titulitarian in its control of its members' behavior. Cultures likely to dictate in great detail not only what members believe but also what members wear and eat, when and where members work, sleep and bathe, how members think, speak and conduct familial, marital or sexual relationships. As an intern at IHOP, our day-to-day lives were closely monitored and dictated.

I was not allowed to go anywhere or leave IHOP premises without express verbal permission from a community leader except on our one day off. Our schedule started early in the morning with hours in the prayer room, then classes, then back to the prayer room. Our nights off and ran late with required attendance at EGS in counter-god services. Or any other special event Mike spoke at that we were required to attend. This often ran late with required attendance at EGS and counter-god services. Or any other special event Mike spoke at that we were required to attend. Sometimes we had to attend worship sets that ended at 10pm or midnight. Sleep was minimal.

It was often unrestful when I did get it. Sleep deprivation is a commonly used tactic in many cult groups to weaken the mind and make a person more susceptible to the embracing of the doctrines taught by the cult. There are many biological and psychological effects of sleep deprivation on the mind. And we've gone over sleep deprivation stuff before when looking to cults. It's a very powerful tool. You know, you bombard someone with your spiritual message day after day, surrounded with fellow believers, control who they see outside the organization, work them hard, keep them tired, and you are able, you know, proven empirically to, to basically, well not basically, to brainwash people.

Alright, she starts with a, again off with a number two. A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard. Members are urged to be obedient to the cult, who carefully follow cult rules. It also encouraged to be revealing and open in the group, confessing all to the leaders. On the other hand, outside the group, they are encouraged to act unethically, manipulating outsiders and non-members, and either deceiving them or simply revealing very little about themselves as a group. In contrast to destructive cults, honorable groups teach members to abide by one set of ethics

and act ethically and truthfully to all people in all situations. Says anyone who rebelled against iHOPs rules went through a strict disciplinary process. At its most minimal level of discipline, foreign intern this meant the loss of having a day off and having to do manual labor. Everyone was kept on a short leash. We also had weekly groups as interns that required to participate in where everyone was interrogated, and pressured to open up and share their personal struggles, etc. and answer personal questions about their lives, struggles, thoughts, fears, and walks with God.

And I wouldn't feel like going to some kind of confession as in Catholicism, and some interns out and out refused to be so vulnerable, and as closing in front of people, they did not know. We were all given journals, until we had mandatory writing assignments to complete. We were to record details of our IHOP prayer room times, things God spoke to us, dreams, visions, or whatever else happened in us spiritually, and then had to turn in our journals weekly to have an internship leader review and read them. In the last month or so I was at IHOP, I paid particularly close attention to the fact that internship leaders ironically prayed things over me in prayer times or

at the altar in the prayer room that related directly to the things I had put in my journals. So what often might have seemed prophetic was the result of the information about me they already had access to. Reading their journals and acting like being prophetic with prayers about it. I mean that's that's pretty lazy. I better work on a lot of people though. Oh gosh dang. Oh God is listening. That's exactly what I hoped. God would help me with. It's exactly what I wrote in my journal that I handed to the person who just told me what God said about it. Praise me. Come on. That's of the shitty intern leaders here. Number three, a destructive cult has only two basic purposes, recruiting new members and

fundraising. Outruistic movements establish religion and other honorable groups, also recruit and raise funds. However, these actions are incidental to an honorable group's main purpose of improving the lives of its members and of humankind in general. Destructive cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality such claims are superficial and only serve as gestures or fronts for recruiting and fundraising. Clothes real goals to increase the prestige and often the wealth of the leader. There was always an underlying pressure to bring people into IHOP. We were encouraged to invite others and get them to join what we were doing.

IHOP campaigns big time to recruit new interns. At every conference, advertising and marketing videos are used to this day to promote the internships. They're played in large TV screens like presidential campaigns and they're just part of the propaganda used to sell young people on this new version of what walking with God is supposed to look like. Each intern paid $4,500 to attend a six-month internship.

This covered some books and teaching material we were given as well as food, lodging, etc. Check this out, though. Every intern lived in the Herndhut Apartments located next door, which IHOP owns anyway. So the only expense is utilities in general upkeep. There was no rent. Plus there was a mandatory fasting day, week end, week, etc. where no meals were served.

So those who didn't choose to fast had to go out and buy food and no interns were not allowed to have jobs. So this got to be a big expense since it wasn't any extra money to live on. I lived in a two bedroom apartment and housed six girls from the ages of 20 to 23. Four of us shared one room and two shared another. The prayer room cost nothing to attend

and is free and open to the public. So, hmm, $4,500 for meals, my electric bill and some IHOP books. I currently live in my own apartment, pay all of my own bills, including rent, food, gasoline, renters, insurance, credit card bills, student loans, electric cell phone, etc, etc. and all that cost me approximately $1,500 a month. So basic math says that someone was getting a big paycheck because my expenses would have never cost that in an internship program where we were given so little.

Probably should comment about IHOPKC being cult like or not, but I'm fixated on being able to pay all the bills for $1500 a month. Oh, to have 2012 prices again. Man, that sounds really good right now. 4. A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition offering something novel and instituting the only viable system for change that will solve lives problems on the world's ills. But these claims are empty, and only used to recruit members who are then surreptitiously subjected to mind control to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the

claims of the leader and the cult. In the time I was there, Mike often used them and us types of statements when referring to the church or those outside of Iop. We were given a sense of being on the cutting edge because we were ahead of the church and we were doing something new and innovative. It was going to sweep the world. It all sounded good so everyone wanted to be in on it as a forerunner and like the label of being on the front lines. No one dared to question it. Now this is something I found problematic going over IHOP cases belief system and business model.

It markets the stakes as being the highest, right? The world is ending soon. Price needs your help. You don't want to be on the wrong side of this epic good versus evil final battle. The time to act is now. That's a very intense sales pitch. You know, the urgency of all that. And doing this kind of recruitment, recruitment where new warriors have to pay for training

is only ethical if a greater war for sure is coming around the corner. And I'm gonna go on a limb and say that it's not. I'll say as I've said before, that Doomsday predictors historically have all had one thing in common and that's been wrong every single time. I mean, this is just not a new novel thing. Every generation

there has been many, many doomsday predictors, and they're always wrong. And if this whole war happening soon, sales pitch is a lie, well, then this entire thing is predicated on a scam of sorts. 5. A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes. There is no appeal outside his or her system to a greater system of justice. For example, if a schoolteacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, an appeal can be made to the superintendent,

and a destructive cult leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters. And they say our family became friends with a Jewish couple who were in KC for a conference. They're a part of an orthodox Jewish congregation in Israel and were missionaries in the US. They had some grave concerns in red flags regarding Ihobs theology that they attempted to meet

with Mike in disgust. After being brushed off by Mike multiple times and it's refusal to meet with them, even though they were Jewish leaders from Israel and Mike knew of them, he finally told these friends of ours that this is how we do things here, this is just how IHOP is, it's not for everyone. That there was something he didn't like or didn't agree with, you were basically told IHOP wasn't for everyone. And if you couldn't handle it, maybe you shouldn't be here. There was no actual accountability for anything deemed wrong or unbiblical.

You were told that IHOP has its own culture, and you must assimilate into that culture and language to really understand it. If you had a problem with something, you were told that you had just not been around long enough to understand how they did things, or you just weren't a good fit. These were the answers I was given when I met with internship leaders before leaving. There was never actual admittance of wrongdoing or hurting anyone who was caught up in the crossfire. So, you know, believe or leave, and don't you dare critique our ways.

Never the best sign of a belief system, you know, worthy of such devotion in my opinion. Number six, a destructive coal leader is a self-appointed messianistic messianic. Oh my god, messiah, messionic. There we go, messiahic person. Claiming to have a special mission in life. For example, leaders of flying saucer cults claim that beings from outer space have commissioned them to lead people away from Earth, so that only the leaders can save them from impending doom. Every intern was required to listen to the 12 hours of IHOP's recorded history on

CD footage. Much of this content was heavily edited before its publication. These tapes told of prophetic words and signs that were given to some of Mike's mentors, Bob Jones, Paul Cain, etc. Who were all naming him as the leader of the next big thing God was doing. Over and over and over again, I've heard it said both directly by Mike as well as from others that he, Mike, would be the leader of a movement that chames the nature and expression of Christianity, you know, on earth. Every time all recognition pointed to Mike, his mission to transform the church and capture the hearts of America's youth has been declared, has been his declared goal since the early 1980s.

One of the major dangers is that these grandiose sounding claims and prophetic words are laden with flattery narcissism and leadism and are a perfect guise under which anything Mike introduces to IHOP can fall under the heading of being a new thing God is doing. This elite is teaching puts Mike on a pedestal and he has a messionic like devoted following of people who would do anything if he told them, do anything if he, oh my God, sorry, who would do anything if he told them to without a moment of questioning or hesitation. From my observations and experiences on staff,

I-hop members do not think for themselves or question Mike's interpretation of scripture, or the slant in the way he teaches it. At any conference, one will easily observe that if Mike recommends a book or promotes a teaching, a teacher to a speaker, at the next break, all of that item will be sold out in the bookstore. When I was on staff, I heard people continually seeing Mike's praises around the clock and quote more of what Mike said or thought or taught than actual scripture. Mike has an alluring charisma and many seem to be instantly drawn to his convincing appearance and direction of purpose.

He teaches with passion and emotion rather than truth and it's that charisma that draws and hooks people, causing many to blindly follow and defend his message. I believe that the I have lifestyle, I iHap lifestyle, by and large, sets people up for disillusionment through the false hope that its deception provides. It is a pseudo-manufactured reality where people are told you can live in Irvana and enjoy the high of being in God's presence 24-7, and that can be all that you live for. So people sell all that they have, buy into a dream, and move across the country to be part of a ministry

that makes captivating claims, and then the world often crumbles to ashes when things aren't as they seem once they arrive. Mike's primary target and focus is on the young people. The appeals from the pulpit and his well-polished speeches aim at capturing the hearts of America's youth. Children and youth are not told or encouraged to respect or honor the parents God gave them.

Instead, wedges are driven between families and a seat of pride, rebellion, and elitism gets planted into the hearts of the young when they are told things like the following. This is a very close paraphrase of what I've heard many, many times at one thing. I have conferences and in teachings by leaders. You are called on to be on the cutting edge.

Come here and join a community of other people who are like you. Call to what you've been called to. We understand you. You've been misunderstood the church. You've had your wings clipped, your gifts misunderstood. Here you can fulfill your forerunner calling that your family just hasn't understood about you. You might feel like you don't fit back home. You're on the outside. No one understands the fire in you. Well, we get it. You are the leaders that God has raised you up in these end times, and you will be kings and queens on earth, raining with him. You were made for this place. I hop as an incubator for people like you. Narcissistic speeches like this instill a sense of pride, arrogance, and elitism in the hearts of the

youth who hear it, and it feeds their need for validation and identity. They run to IHOP, leave their families, join internships, hoping that what they've heard is true. They go to a hap looking for identity instead of finding it in Jesus. Once outside of the IHOP environment, they are terrified and overwhelming by the real world, and don't know how to function in it when they've been in an intensive internship environment. There is a degree of reactivating to normal life.

It feels like an IHOP detox afterward. It's a severe emotional drop because the hyped-up services and conferences that where your men are now gone and when there is no prayer room, your life and God feels empty and lifeless. Many simply don't know how to engage with God in a real day-to-day basis once they've left. I experienced this and heard the exact same thing from a handful of my friends after they left IHOP and the internship. At that point, when disillusionment sets in, I know many interns that walked away from

God completely upon leaving the internship and went back into lifestyles worse than the ones they left when they came to IHOP originally. So yeah, driving a wedge between you and your family, if your family doesn't also believe, if this happens, right, very negative tactic that nearly always helps to find a cult. If the group's messias are strong and logical, well then, you know, they wouldn't need to do this, they wouldn't need to, you know, pry people

or put a wedge in between people and their families, because the family's probably wouldn't be bothered by the messias they're giving. Number seven. And I'm gonna take a little sip of water. I'm not gonna stop down every time I do this state because it just will draw this out forever. Listen regularly, you know I never try and do that,

but the virus bill has affected me. Okay, seven is Structives Colt Leader leaders centers the veneration of members upon himself for herself. Priest rabbis ministers, democratic leaders, and other leaders of genuinely altruistic movements focused the veneration of adherence on God or a set of ethical principles. Cult leaders in contrast keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves. I believe my statements above illustrate this so I won't be redundant. Finally number eight, a destructive cult leader tends to be determined, domineering, and charismatic.

Such a leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter their family's friends and careers to follow the cult. The leader then takes control over followers, possessions, money, time, and lives. Youth are pumped up at conferences and then go home to tell their parents. They're moving to Kansas City to join IHOP. Be part of an internship, etc. At the time, sadly, they don't realize how much more they are giving up and leaving behind than just their families.

I was hurled into a system that took control of my time when I ate, slept, had time alone, etc. Picking up pieces of my heart and rebuilding a biblical view of God after getting outside of IHOP was quite a long process. I hope to buy share in all this. I'm able to spare others the heartache of what I went through. Okay, so there we go. So that's just one person's opinion.

I have no way of verifying that they were even a part of IHOP KC. But as I said earlier, their concerns, complaints, do mirror those I've read from others in an online and also things uncovered an investigative journalism pieces. I think what Ariel shared is good to keep in mind as I walk you through their beliefs, practices in history, speaking of beliefs. Let me share the one I find the most concerning just right away. And it's Mike Beckle's vision of who I will call killer Christ, a very warrior like deity. The vanguard of God's end times army, according to Beckle, will be made up of young people or forerunners, seers, especially attuned to the will of the Lord. The best of all the generations that have ever been seen here on the face of the earth." There's a quote from one of his sermons.

For seven years of tribulation, they will battle the anti-Christ. When Christ returns, he will slaughter by sword in a single day, the unsaved. And his warriors will rule heaven and earth forever more. And there's more descriptive kind of pastures about Christ that I'll get into later, but, you know, that's, they're all generally just depicting the same, very bloody, literally sword-wilding warrior.

And this is, in my opinion, it's just such a fucking crazy thing to root for. Jesus literally chopping people dead with a sword. As in the son of God, covered in their blood. Right? Why would you want to hold this belief? I just like, like waiting on a DET to come down and slaughter pedophiles, rapist, serial killers, etc. Okay, I can actually get behind that. But just to put all random non-believers to the fucking sword, because they won't convert, it seems pretty harsh, super nice, handy family down the street, right? Straight up, get in fucking

chapped by Killer Christ. Nice old Jewish couple. You know that I always dream to smile and questions about how you're doing? Killer Christ gonna slay them. Super sweet adorable atheist family who sells organic vegetables at the farmer's market and gives what they don't sell to food banks off with their fucking heads. Chop chop motherfucker. This feels I don't know kind of evil. I'll go for more beliefs here soon, but that's an important one I think to keep in mind this episode because like all the sweet singing and all the missionary work, all the praying, is all essentially done to pave the way for killer Christ to come down and get to chop it.

So let's talk a bit about structure now. The International House of Prayer is a Christian organization based in Kansas City, Missouri, now called IHOP KC, offer 24-7 prayer room and live streaming of worship services. The prayer room has been open 24-7 since September 19, 1999, and you can view this prayer room on the IHOP KC website, or you can just find it on YouTube very easily. You just put in the search bar, IHOP KC prayer room,

or IHOP KC 24-7, and it comes right up. I will admit, I listened to it for hours while researching this episode and I gotta say, it is hypnotic. Not the kind of church music I ever experienced growing up. Much of it, very translike. And Duce is a lot of calm and peace, very soothing meditative. For me, Duce is a sense of myst and peace, very soothing, meditative. For me, induced is a sense of mysticism, for sure. So I'm just gonna place them right now,

and I don't even know what is being played because I am just going to check in with the actual live stream, and see what they're doing. I'm just gonna play some live stream, and you bring what is lacking. Father, if there is hope that is needed, you bring hope that there is more love that is needed, you bring hope, that there is more love that is needed, you bring more love, that there is more faith that is needed, you bring more faith, Father, that there is more mercy, you bring more mercy, that we need more... What's going on right now? is usually it's more just songs but I can't remember how often but every so

often somebody will kind of give this type of testimony and more just you know speak about about God and then it'll just weave back into music. I'll also say I find it interesting that there's so many attractive people in the prayer room. A lot of men and women. Let's be good for recruiting. Okay, now I'll go back in the songs. She puts the mic down and they just have this big rotating cast of musicians. There might be, I don't know, maybe a dozen of them sometimes up there and then like they

might go down to just like a one person on piano, let the band rotate out and they've kept this going for decades. Non-stop. It's never stopped. They do like equipment fixes and stuff while they just keep it going. I can't just keep listing out there's something about, yeah music constant music, you know can be harmless for sure But I will say music very often an important tool used by coal eaters, right? And I'm in a refinery 29 article titled how coal eaters use music for mind control The author wrote that it is common and cults to use music in religious ceremonies in order to direct emotional and psychological attention

To a specific ideology your person. This is dangerous because it rewires how your brain works. Further isolating you from the world outside of the cult makes me think of Ariel talking about how so many people just wanted to be in on the prayer room. Which I get right just makes you feel good. You feel the sense of mysticism. It's very powerful draw. Maybe father Yod could have taken his source cult to greater heights. If his music hadn't been just so fucking terrible. Remember that? Remember how bad, uh, yahu If that if that was a music coming out of the 24 seven prayer room, it would have lasted about 48 hours before it would just shut down. If that there'd be every no one, there'd be no one left. There'd just be father Yo before he passed away.

40 past the way. Music psychologist, professional pianist, Marina, of course, Akovah, Kriin, says regarding the importance of music to cults, music does activate our biological reward system along with food, sex, drugs, and money. There are clear biological motivations for the importance of food, sex, and drugs that science can explain, but explain why a non-necessity, like music,

gives us a chemical shot of pleasure Difficult to rationalize there is yes something mystical about music right music anecdotally I think music you know, it's persuasive manipulative powers are just pretty obvious. I mean we make playlist I do right to seduce to enhance sex we use music to get psyched up for workouts to get our minds quote right We use music to get psyched up for workouts to get our minds quote right Hitting on all cylinders for our work days right stores pipe it in to make customers spend more money Massouses play the right calming sounds to enhance massages Restaurants select the right tracks to enhance the palette and cold leaders or coldish groups Can use it to stir up mystical and euphoric feelings inside of followers and get them to associate those feelings with their group becomes a Pavlovian association then. The right song is a worship continually hammering the belief tenets of a cult into the minds

of believers, right? Creating that Pavlovian associated between hearing the music strongly associated with and derive from the cult and feeling like a part of something magical can cement trust and loyalty to the cult for sure and has done with many cults. So outside of singing songs, what's I have KC about? I have KC is according to its own website. An evangelical missions organization that is committed to praying for the release of

the fullness of God's power and purpose, which is a nicer, nicer thing to say than saying you got to get killer Christ down here and start chopping off heads. Their goal is to win the lost, heal the sick, feed the poor, make disciples and impact every sphere of society. Our vision is to work in relationship with the wider body of Christ to engage in the great commission as we seek to walk out the two great commandments to love God and people. They call themselves a community of believers committed to God each other and to

establishing and maintaining a 24-7 house of prayer in Kansas City. According to the IHOPKC Emission statement, IHOPKC community exists to partner in the great commission by advancing 24-7 prayer with worship and proclaiming the beauty of Jesus and His glorious return. And the great commission is defined as Jesus' instructions after his resurrection to his disciples to spread the gospel all over the world. I help KC emphasizes prayer, worship, fasting, and works of justice. They write, we are committed to prayer, fasting, the Great Commission, and to living as four runners,

spiritually preparing for the unique dynamics of the end times. The work of our ministry includes equipping and sending out missionaries as dedicated intercessors and evangelists who work to see revival within the church and a harvest among those searching for God. We take seriously the mandate to train believers to love Jesus and others wholeheartedly as together we go forth to preach the world, to preach the word, heal the sick, serve the poor, plant house of the prayer and proclaim the return of Jesus across the earth. The heart of our mission's base is night and day prayer with worship.

I hope KC was a found-by guy who was claimed to have received a ton of prophecies and to have also visited heaven on two different occasions. My claims that once he visited heaven at exactly 2.16 a.m. and God ordered him to prepare an end times ministry and seated him in a golden chariot that lifted off into the Imperium I wanted did you visit heaven at 2 16 a.m. heaven time or 2 16 a.m. local Kansas City time How did you know that this was the exact time you visited heaven was the Was he just happened to be watching the clock at 2 16 a.m. when he got whisked up in the chair yet? Or was he not watching the clock?

But then as he started to go into the chair, he's like, hold on, I gotta check the clock. I gotta have some more credibility for this claim when I get back. I don't know, this seems odd. Like someone would doubt him if he didn't have that time. Are you sure you visited heaven, Mike? If you visit heaven, what time did you visit heaven? 2.16 a.m. All right, okay, now I believe you.

What time did you visit heaven? 216 a.m. Huh. All right. Okay, now I believe you. Pastor Mike Bickle founded IHOP on May 7th, 1999 and a building on Grand View Road in Kansas City, Missouri. New York Times calls Mike a self-trained evangelical pastor. According to the IHOP KC website,

Mike directs the International House of Prayer and is the founder of the International House of Prayer University and he's published several books. One of his most popular books is growing in the prophetic practical biblical guide to dreams visions and spiritual gifts. A practical guide to understanding spiritual visions. Is that a thing? A practical guide to dream interpretation. Can that be a thing? Is that even possible? Can you write a practical guide to like understanding what you see on psychedelic trips? Well, it would qualify someone to write any of this stuff.

This book, whether or not he's a cult leader, feels like the kind of book written by Collier. From the about Mike section of IHOP case, he's website, Mike's teachings emphasize growing and passion for Jesus through intimacy with God, doing evangelism and mission's work from the place of night and day prayer and the end times, always the end times, doomsday, very popular focus. Mike claims that he heard God's voice talking directly to him on numerous occasions in addition to heading up to having twice. His prophetic experiences are part of the church's prophetic history, which we'll cover in

more detail later on. I have cases full-time staff called themselves intercessory intercessory missionaries. They raised their own outside support money to work full-time for I have Casey. I have Casey currently has about 2,000 staff students and interns working 50 hours a week in prayer rooms, classrooms and ministry. Their goal is to have thousands of full-time intercessory oh my god intercessory. There we go. Missionaries who are devoted to praying and serving God. Excuse me. Worship sessions are held in the global prayer room at the Kansas City, I have there now other prayer rooms across the country.

We'll focus on just one, the mother ship, the Kansas City prayer room for this episode. I have cases, prayer rooms are based so they claim on the spirit of the Tabernacle of David. Tabernacle was a tent directed to house the Ark of the Covenant after the conquest of Jerusalem. It was a dwelling place for God and a site for worship. Bickel wanted to resurrect a similar place with the international house of prayer. Anyone is allowed to walk into the prayer room at any time.

Some people engage in the songs or prayers, others read, study, write, or pray on their own, others walk around the room or stand during prayer sessions. Master Bateshnam Gassian is frowned upon. Some do kind of twitch around spastically, because the Holy Spirit manifests itself into their bodies, though. That seems to be welcomed more on that later. The service is alternating two-hour sets, six-two-hour intercession sessions, and six-two-hour worship sessions.

Intercession sessions are, that's kind of fun to say, are usually energetic as the room is invited to engage in corporate prayer. There is generally a specific prayer focus and individuals in the room are welcome to pray on the microphone for a corporate, excuse me, corporate burden, which may involve the Kansas City region or a worldwide. There are also cycles of rapid fire prayer when intercessors go to the microphone to pray a succession of 15 second prayers on a specific theme, as well as times of

small group prayer for any who wish to participate. A lot of different kinds of prayer. Intercession, i.e. focused prayers on behalf of specific people or on specific situations. Accurate 12 a.m. 4 a.m. 6 a.m. 10 a.m. 4 p.m. and 8 p.m. Worship with the word 2 a.m. 8 a.m. 12 p.m. 2 p.m. 6 p.m. and 10 p.m. As they say on their website, worship with the words a prayer format in which we agree with God's heart as we sing the biblical truths of who God is and what his promises are. These sessions are more devotional in nature, providing an atmosphere conducive to reading the Bible and entering into contemplative or devotional prayer. Nightwatch is what IHOP case he calls a night shift in the prayer room.

They work for midnight to 6 a.m. and Nightwatch has made up a staff, interns, and students, and based off the Psalm 134. Behold, let's allord all you servants of the Lord who by nightstand in the house of the Lord, lift up your hands at the sanctuary and bless the Lord, the Lord who made heaven and earth bless you from Zion. I have KC believes in night watch promotes a deeper, more focused connection with God. Tommy crazy, but I'm going to live and say that if you need to

be in a prayer room at three o'clock in the morning, here's not a good place overall, right? Like, you know, forget spiritually, you're not doing well mental health wise, you're freaking out, you're worried about dying or having some kind of existential crisis or something, you're having a psychotic episode, you're mentally ill. I just don't think if life is moving in a good direction for you, you have a healthy circle of friends, good job, healthy romantic relationship, or don't feel like you need a romantic relationship, your physical health is good. You haven't just experienced the death of a loved one, no major health scares. I just don't think you head on into the prayer room at 3 a.m.

If the, if the ship is sailing smoothly, probably wait until, I don't know, 8 a.m. 9 a.m. Get those songs in. I'll probably wait until, I don't know, 8am. 9am, let's get those songs in. IHOPKC is mainly known for their harp and bowl worship model. And what the fuck is that you might ask? IHOPKC writes on their website, it sounds intimidating, but it's really not. We speak of a harp and bowl model of prayer.

At the International House of Prayer, we use this model as a way of combining worship and prayer. It helps to facilitate enjoyable prayer as we sing various biblical passages. This has proven integral to sustaining 24 seven prayer with worship over the last 20 years at Iop KC. There have been various expressions this model used by others throughout the body of Christ in prayer meetings worldwide.

The focus of Harper and Bull worship is God himself. Our songs and prayers are directed towards God, and when we pray for issues, such as the ending of abortion or human trafficking, we are asking God to move in accordance with His word and desires. We do this by grounding our prayers in the Bible. We start by expressing agreement with God's word and what He says about the problem or situation. Lord is faithful to His word and will not return to Him void until it has accomplished

that for which it was sent. Harp and Bull facilitates interaction between the intercessors, singers, and musicians. Most prayer meetings began with a time of corporate worship to bring people together in God's presence. Then when intercession starts, the music dials down, but still continues as the intercessors pray. That's what we just heard.

When each prayer is concluded, the singers began to sing based on what was prayed on the intercessors' mic, eventually creating a chorus for the whole room to sing. It's like a, there's these improv games that places that like second city or ground lanes will do. These long form improv games that are very similar to this, just without the music. This is how we are able to pray for hours on end.

The cycle repeats as often as needed based on the number of intercessors with times of corporate worship, interwoven to provide breaks between intercession topics. In corporate worship, that's a funny sounding phrase to me. Sorry, I did sip again. Corporate worship, right? It makes me think of things like, we will praise the God, all right,

just God, who offers the best 401k plan. An amazing God who provides a faithful with paid time off at a generous bonus compensation plan. I know that's not what it means, but that's what I think I'm gonna hear corporate prayer. Uh, the main IHOP KC goal is to keep praying until Jesus returns. They believe the praying directly helps speed up the arrival of the end times, right? Fucking end times, bingo, bingoingo the darkness hiding behind the happy music. And again, I know there's more to the n times and just a bunch of people getting chopped, but that is a big part of it. It does kick off with a large blood bath.

And that is a weird fucking thing to root for. And I know you're not, you know, I know you're not directly rooting for the blood bath, rooting for the time after the blood bath, but it just sucks that people feel like they have to get through the blood bath to get to the good stuff, right? It's just to bummer that they can't just be singing these songs. Let me let me go back and play a little bit of what they're doing now here. Let's get to their song. Yes, he is nice. Why can't it speak like just songs about like everything's gonna be fine and

Guys gonna take care of the devil and don't you even worry about it? He doesn't need your help because he's omnipotent powerful God you just fucking sit tight and sing your songs Guys gonna fuck up the devil and then we're in a party But instead it's gotta be singing that to to power up Killer Christ to come down and just start fucking lopping heads. I Don't know It makes me feel like they they should be singing like different kinds of songs The song she get darker in the prayer room maybe start off nice, but then get darker

Maybe start off like Jesus loves me this sign now For the Bible tells me so little ones to him be long They are weak, but he is strong. So fricking strong. So fricking strong. Strong enough to cut, can't tend up. Do not worship him. Strong enough to impale the elderly. Who did not heed his call? Get a Christ. We'll slay them all. Like maybe just, you know, if that's part of the focus, just spell that out in the songs. Mike Biggle preaches that IHOPKC attendees are in the early days of the generation

of Jesus's return right now. But many Christians have been taken over by demons, gosh dang, according to Mike, are their focused worship, weakened demons, and strengthens angels that live on earth. And this will bring on the great tribulation, the final battle and the second coming. And I find this weird.

But I find it weird that singing would strengthen the angels, hiding out here on earth and weakened demons. I just, I don't know, I always thought of demons being stronger than that. You know, I just picture some demon out there now, just can't quite get strong enough to just to fuck some shit up, just take somebody's soul over. You know, they get close, but then they hear this music

You know just damn it. You can just call off your army of synthesizers and vocal harmonies Mike Bickel Every time I'm about to take a soul I get distracted by the tibnetic meditative Transposing sun by this really attractive blonde woman right now Dang it Bickel is preached the church causes the great tribulation He's quoted as saying the second coming will probably happen within the lifetime of people living today But it's smart that he used to word probably I'll give him that you didn't say certainly

Just doing a lot better than a lot of these guys right give them a little bit of wiggle room if the second coming doesn't happen anytime soon, which it won't. Stamens like this cause other pastors to argue that he's using apocalyptic predictions to lure in believers, right? Yeah, making the stakes big. It is a proven recruiting technique, right? Sell that drama. Coat, coat, coat.

They think that he's crossing a line by suggesting that IHOP case he's praying could help actively bring on the second coming. And I do agree that that's too much. Right? According to Bickel God's end times, Army will be made up of so-called four runners or seers who know the will of God the best of all the generations that have ever been seen on the face of the earth. This army will battle the end of Christ for seven years during the Great Tribulation. When Christ returns, they'll kill every non-Christian. Oh, man. And his army will rule heaven and earth. Right? Killer Christ. The greatest, most bloodthirsty warrior the universe has ever seen. Chop, chop, motherfuckers. Um, important note, this belief

is not unique to eyeopk c. Many people who share these beliefs are usually part of a religious movement called the new apostolistic reformation. Prayer rooms and prayer rallies are becoming more common. The NAR believes that the seven mountains of culture, government, business, family, educational systems, media, arts, religion will soon all fall under their influence. And there are a lot of other Mike Bickles out there, self-proclaimed prophets who got a supposed he spoke with directly, informing them of how needed they are in the upcoming battle between good and evil. Bickel is careful to say that he doesn't think his group's prayers will directly bring on the second coming.

He claims that calling church followers for runners is not implying that they are an elite group, but he does kind of imply that they're an elite group. And that his group's prayers will help bring about the second coming if he listen to the sermons. He's. And that is groups prayers will help bring about the second coming. If you listen to the sermons, he's also said, God intends us to be like gods. God has conceived in his heart of a plan to make a race of men

that would live like gods on earth. And that is powerful recruiting language. You want to be a God? Come with me. I'll show you the way. Unlike many religious groups covered on time, it's like, I have KC does fully list their beliefs on their website. Here are some of the main ones.

Number one, the Bible, we believe that only the 66 books of the Bible are the inspired and therefore an errant word of God. The Bible is the final authority for all we believe in how we are to live. To the Holy Trinity, we believe that one true God exists externally in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

And that these being one God are equal in deity, power and glory. God is infinite in love, perfect in judgments, unchanging and righteous as a mercy. We believe that God not only created the world, but also now upholds, sustains, governs and prevent, um, provide, um, Providence, provideentially, Providence, oh my God, providentially, there we go, directs all that exists, and that he will bring all things to their proper consummation in Christ Jesus to the glory of his name. Salvation. By the way, having to pause on words like that,

like I would be the worst preacher. Like if I was a preacher, I would get tossed out so quick. Like even if I was trying so hard, because I would stammer and I'd get frustrated and I would swear. Right? Like I'd be put on a good sermon. I'd be like, he will bring all things to the proper cons of it. Consum, consum, consum, fuck consum, sorry. In Christ Jesus, there'd be a lot of like, you know, people in the, in the pubes, like, you're doing it again. you're doing it again.

You're gonna get tossed. Three, salvation, we believe that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone and Christ alone, no ordinance, ritual, work or any other activity on the part of man is required or accepted for his salvation. This saving grace of God through the power of the Holy Spirit also sanctifies us by enabling us to do

what is pleasing in God's sight that we might progressively conform to the image of Christ. For humanity, we believe that humanity, male and female, was originally created the image of God, righteous and without sin. As a consequence of disobedience, all persons are sinners by both nature and choice and are therefore spiritually dead and justly condemned as children of wrath and the sight of God, wholly unable to save themselves. Good job, Eve, you fucked it for us. We used to be righteous without sin, but you had to have that apple. Now we're children of wrath, which sounds like we're gremlins or goblins or some shit.

Um, five, the church, we believe that the church is God's primary instrument, the through which he is fulfilling his redemptive purposes in the earth. To equip the saints for the work of ministry, God has given the church apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. We also affirm that the priesthood of all believers and the importance of every Christian being joined with and actively involved in a local community of the saints. We believe that women, shitty. And we believe that women, no less than we were left-turned, we believe that women should

be fucking put down. They must be killed. Now, we believe that women, no less than men are called and gifted to proclaim the gospel and do the works of the kingdom. So very progressive. Women also get to spread the word of killer Christ. Historic pre-millennial is pre-millennialism. Millennial, my God. Yeah, I said it right. Okay.

We believe in the literal second coming of Christ as the end of his age when he will return to earth personally and Visibly to reign over the nations in his millennial kingdom And that Christ the King will also fuck shit up Sunday Sunday Sunday At the Bobby Joe John Deere events and in fair fairgrounds, Killer Christ takes on everyone who refuses to believe One god versus most of humanity One sword we'll divine immortal deity who probably cannot be harmed But didn't fare too well when he last went up against the Romans

So he does enter the battle with an own one record who wins a bunch of non-Christian families Don't believe this war one thing to do with it or Killer Christ God behead her I was trying to say behead her there at the end. I don't know what I don't know what actually came out. Obviously I out of the rastland talk. Now they actually have written, uh, we believe that the church will go through the great tribulation with great power and victory and will only be raptured at the end of the great tribulation. No one can know with certainty the timing of the Lord's return.

We also believe in and our praying for a great end time harvest of souls. In the emergence of a victorious church, that will experience unprecedented unity, purity, and power in Holy Spirit. Seven heaven and hell, we believe that when Christians die, they pass immediately into the blessed presence of Christ, there to enjoy conscious fellowship with the Savior until the day of the resurrection. And the glorious transformation of their bodies, the saved will receive eternal rewards and for forever dwell and blissful fellowship with the great Triune God

We also believe that when unbelievers die they are consigned to hell They are to await the day of judgment when they shall be punished in the lake of fire with eternal conscious and tormented separation And the presence of God. Yeah, get them Burn people like me forever reasonable very fair punishment for those of us who think who think, you know, this might not be true. Number eight, marriage. The IHOPKC leadership team upholds the New Testament view of the sanctity of sex and the context of marriage between one man and one woman. However, we strongly oppose victimization or violence against any sector of society that disagrees with the biblical

view. Right? They'll get punished enough later. We don't need to be violent with them here because they're going to get theirs. We honor the dignity and rights of all who differ from us until they burn. IHOP case he also believes in the bridegroom message which has caused controversy for them over the years. This is a belief that in order to really love God, Catholic Jesus, fuck you. Don't be stingy. If you don't have a post, you give that loophole up to God. Let the Almighty really give you a good pumbling. No, it's not that. Not exactly. But some do think of her notes, a weird sexual type of relationship with Jesus, which is, you know, what causes the controversy. According to I Hop in July of 1988, Mike Bickle was sitting in his

office reading a wedding card with a verse from the song of Solomon. Mike prayed, Jesus seal my heart with the seal of love. He said he then began crying as any mentally stable person would. And then his phone rang. Bella Prophet then told him that he heard the voice of the Lord to give him a message from Mike to Song of Solomon to dialogue about love should be the focus of the ministry. Bickel now came to the realization that Christians would see Jesus

through the eyes of a bride with loyal devoted love. He should love and be in love with God, developing an intimacy with God, and that would help bring about a second coming. Bickel preached Jesus is not coming until the people of God are crying out globally in an intercession with a bridal identity. There's not on my notes at all. I should probably keep this inside my head. But right when I just in the context of what we just read when I read the sentence,

Bickle preached, Jesus is not coming. I picture like he's not going to like like see you and like he's not going to orgasm until the people are crying out globally. Like that's what he needs to come. Does everyone be like, please, we love you so much. He's like, ah, yes, I can finally finish. Anyway, Bickle has been criticized for this because of the sexual nature, right, the song of Solomon. And some don't like that there's a sexual nature to that in their eyes, and he recruits children to IHOP KC. Bickle argues that the theology is not sexual. Critics say, though, that even

suggesting sexuality and worship is wrong. Some former members argue that the bridegroom message is sexual, according to former members. Some, Ihop plays music in cafeterias, hallways, the prayer room, lyrics from two Piper's songs, our God is a lover looking for a lover. So he fashioned me, do you understand what you do to me, how you ravage my heart with just one glance. One former intern said very quickly, there were sexual sensual escapades with God. An instructor told this intern, God is using his word to kiss you. And this intern heard stories from other members about fantasies of orgies with Jesus. Sex with God.

Cult, cult, cult. I mean, if you can get followers to fantasize about having an org with Jesus, I mean, they're begging to be fucked by the cult leader, although that is not what I think is going on here. I, up, KC responded to questions about bridegroom paradigms, about the bridegroom paradigm and their affirmations and denials webpage, same. We affirm that spiritual intimacy with God refers to developing a deep personal relationship with God through the spirit and the word. In other words, it is based on a deep understanding and knowledge of what word of God says about God, the father, God the son, God the Holy Spirit.

We deny that spiritual intimacy is associated with anything related to human sensuality. I have case he also states on their website that they are committed to works of justice, which means they support several charitable organizations, send out missionaries and have their own internal organizations for missionary work. Take one sip of water here. And excuse me, in Kansas City, they've offered food distributions, street cleanup, clothing and food for children's outreach, and intercity prayer room and other programs.

The Children's Justice Initiative serves orphans and at-risk children. The Women's Life Center is a local pregnancy crisis center. I have KC plans to provide homes and the restoration programs for victims of human trafficking domestic violence or sex workers. I have KC has affiliated with a number of other organizations in addition to its own subsidiaries, all part of a broader network of prophetically-minded evangelicals. A lot of their content streamed on a website called God.TV.

GodTV is an evangelical Christian media network founded in the UK with offices in Plymouth, England or land of Florida, India, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Kenya, Ghana, and Australia. Founded by Rory and Wendy Alec in 1995 is the Christian channel Europe. UK is first daily Christian TV network and then became God channel in 1997 and God TV in 2002 and moved their headquarters to Orlando in 2003 and God TV has been criticized for promoting an anti LGBT view and inviting anti LGBT pastors on other shows and you know I'm not surprised I mean the evangelical movement is against homosexuality overall believing it to sinful. So you could make this critique of any evangelical group

that I'm aware of. Almost any of them. I'm sure there's some that progressively have changed recently. I have KC provides financial support to many nonprofit organizations, one of which is Exodus Cry. Exodus Cry is a Christian nonprofit organization seeking to abolish the legal commercial sex industry,

pornography, strip club, sex work, and illegal sex trafficking. And come on, get the fuck out of here. Get a rid of porn and strip clubs. Why even try and do that? Honestly, why deny strong and natural sexual impulses? The biological imperative to fuck, to view others, as sexual beings, at least in moments, and enjoy sexuality is way too strong and natural for it to be something you can

just dismiss an outlaw. I really think it's delusional to think otherwise and arrogant. I mean, you might as well try and ban fucking breathing. And to demonize it will only lead to more subversive forms of sexuality in my opinion. Look to the Catholic churches, long and ongoing history with Chamolistation is a good example of what happens when you overly demonized normal expressions of sexual. IHOP KC organized the annual one thing conference at the Kansas City Convention Center in 2010, more than 25,000 people attended.

Conference, that's a fucking lot of people. The conference focuses on worship with sermons, on evangelical sermons, and eschatology. And what is the real focus of all the worship and sermons well the course to bring about the intimes i-hop uh... has its own staff training center which only makes sense international house of prayer universities a bible college located in grandview mizuri i-hop you includes the four-runner music academy which trains singers and musicians in the harp and bowl model the four-runner media institute trains people to present Christian Messieurs throughout modern media.

I hop you offer three to six month long internships. Different age groups can participate in the internships, interns participate in prayer meetings, classroom instruction, ministry experience, quote, intimacy with Jesus, the return of Jesus and cultivating a lifestyle of prayer. And I got some of the wording. I know what they're saying, but from a marketing point of view, intimacy with Jesus sounds fucking creepy. All right, class. Let's begin our lesson for today. Everyone take out their anatomically correct Jesus dolls. Today we're going to focus on prostate massage. Become a little more intimate.

These are five, there are five internship options, fire in the night, fire in the night, that internship joined to the night watch, the prayer watch of a company of people who praying worship the Lord for midnight to 6 a.m. in the global prayer room. Say we believe the night belongs to the Lord, fire in the night, interns cry out in prayer for justice

and revival to break in on the earth, fire in the night, three month long internship, residential or non-residential for 18 to 25 year olds dating prohibited. Non-residential interns can be age 26 or older, married couples 18 or older can participate. And it costs $3,275 to do this for tracks one and two residential. And if you don't have to live there, it's $1,300 or $1,200. Intro to IHOP KC internships. The intro is a full-time internship program that encourages individuals into a lifetime of prayer

and friendship with Jesus, program designed as a time of consecration and counter admissions through prayer. Many have rebuilt spiritual foundation to this program through a season of encounter and equipping for a deeper life and prayer and confidence in the love of God. And then it says, we welcome single and married applicants of all ages. I think the word friendship, right? I don't just worship French Jesus. He's also my buddy. We're friends. We should hoops together. We talk about dating struggles. but it'll call it duty sometimes. He's very good. And so you can just resurrect himself whenever he takes a kill shot. All ages can participate in this three month internship. If he's successfully complete it, you can apply to join the four week, I hop KC staff entry program or I hop you. This cost 1350 plus $250 administrative fee.

This costs 1350 plus $250 administrative fee. There's the one thing internship, which is a six month program where young adults can seek the Lord together in the context of a like-minded community. Central place of this internship is our 24-7 prayer room. Interns will also spend time in classes, serve in various capacities around the missions base, participate in small groups, receive discipleship, et cetera, et cetera. Singles 8, 18 to 25 can participate. No dating. Uh-uh. Guys, focus on your Jesus bride.

Interns who complete the internship can apply to join the staff or I help you cost 6,000 or 6,250 for international interns. There's the Simeon Company internship. Whether you've spent most of your life in the workplace, ministry of the home, the Simeon Company is for 50 and overs, married or single who desire to give themselves more fully to prayer, to worship the ministry, worship and the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Simeon interns engage with young adults and minister in our spiritual family. Our goal is to see each intern filled with passion for Jesus

and turning toward the younger generation as a spiritual father and mother. We believe that unity and ministry between generations is part of God's glory and plan for the church. This internship, uh, 1350. Third of a field like Scientology, right? You just got to pay for more and more spiritual knowledge. It's a very similar business model in some ways. And there's the hope city internship. I'm not going to go over all of them in detail.

I think you get it. Alright, this one is about like a lot of like outreach, it's three months. You can, you know, like, help feed the poor, do things like that. You still have to pay though, $1500. If you'd like to tend one of these schools, you know, yeah, it's going to set you back a few thousand each semester There's the four-runner school of ministry this one To become a minister in the iHab kc kind of style About three thousand dollars per semester if you're living on campus about two thousand if you're doing online And there's a whole bunch more. I'm not gonna. It's just too much of a long list But it just live class after class, you know, program after program.

And in 2011, some former IHOP youth students told the New York Times that they were expelled for questioning techniques about mystical healing, prophecies, angels, and demons in some of these classes. Do not question our authority. According to Catherine Bowler from Duke University Divinity School, IHOP KC is an important example of the proliferating non-denominational charismatic churches. These new churches are fast growing branch Christianity that attract young people and old staff and students required to spend 25 hours a week in the prayer room and required to fast weekly for 24 hours or more. Some students complain about sensory overload and isolation, not being able to think for

themselves. Some group leaders allegedly encourage students to avoid contact with parents who are skeptical of the church. And if true, cult, cult, cult. Stephanie Dyerard spoke to the Times and said she was asked to leave in 2009 because she started questioning her teacher about their fascination with signs and wonders. Now Mike Bickle publicly denies this and other claims, saying, I always tell people to think for themselves.

And to remember that their family is their first loyalty, not the ministry. Right? So many former members have stated though that this is not the message that is trickled down to them through the various people that Mike has hired. Now let's get into what I think is the most troubling aspect of IHOP Casey. IHOP Casey preaches that any believer can have prophetic experiences. Several church leaders, including Bickel, have claimed to have prophetic experiences. Several church leaders, including Bickel, have claimed to have prophetic experiences, right? These experiences have come to make up the church's prophetic history.

And this belief that anyone can suddenly receive a vision from God has already led to some weird troubling shit, as I'll soon go over and apportion the timeline. And it will inevitably lead to more weird shit. Over the past 25 years, according to their website, IHOPKC members have received 25 important prophetic experiences. God knows how many unimportant ones about the future Kansas City, the US and the world. These mainly happened in the 1970s and 80s. People claim to see God, hear His voice, see an angel, or had prophetic dreams. Now all part of the prophetic history of the church.

Bickel's End Time Theology, available on DVD, is also called a prophetic history of the church. Bickel's end time theology, available on DVD, is also called a prophetic history. 10 hours of stories about supernatural visions, experiences and prophetic words, given to Mike Bickel from a number of prophets back in the 1980s. And I hop you students are made to familiarize themselves with these prophecies. I have KC explains prophecy in the affirmations

and denials page saying we affirm that the Bible is the inherent and sole objective source of direction and wisdom for the life of a believer. We believe in the operation of the prophetic ministry as a source of edification, exhortation and comfort from the Lord. We believe that the subjectivity of the prophetic ministry must be vigorously tested against the inspired and infallible scriptures that God gave for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction and righteousness. We deny the subjective prophetic experiences are equal to the inspired word of God. In other words, all personal prophecy must uphold and honor the scripture.

We urge people to avoid giving others prophetic direction in the domestic areas of their life. This includes issues related to spousal designation, bearing children, changing jobs, moving, buying or selling a house or other things, leaving one church for another et cetera. We may give God the counsel to one another in domestic areas without presenting it as prophecy. Personal prophecy should be given with others as witnesses. We request the prophecies be recorded when possible.

Some people have an overreliance on dreams for direction of domestic lives. God never intended to direct people mostly by dreams. Yes, God does use dreams to give some direction. However, dreams are not to be a substitute for gaining wisdom from Scripture. Some people rely on dreams for decisions because it absolves them from responsibility and lack of wisdom if the decision turns out to be wrong. Sounds like they've had a lot of trouble with fucking dreams. And how weird is all this, right? Like, we believe that one can hear from God directly that you can receive the gift of Prophecy God can share messias directly with you. These are coming from God. However If God say tells you to tell your neighbor how to live their life well then you need to tell God to shut the fuck up

Need to ignore God Likewise, if God says something that doesn't line up with our interpretation of other shit God has set a long time ago written down by men large You didn't hear from God themselves directly, but only received news of God's word decades after the fact. Then we need you to again, ignore the direct word of God. You might not even be talking to God in that case. If you receive a prophecy,

that lines up with our prophecies, and what we believe to be God's word, cool, that's God. If you receive a prophecy that says anything different, well, hang out the prophecy phone you're online with the demon it just seems like this is just a very messy way to go about things uh former member uh blaze for a uh stated that he left iHOP largely over some of these prophecy issues and to be fair there are many out there who do not think for a is credible detractor. They think he was a power hungry member of iHOPKC who actually wanted to start his own cult.

That being said, his detractions do, as laid out here, make sense to me and go along with others who have left the organization with what they have said. Not that he's telling the truth. Foray was a member from 2008 to 2013. As a years passed, he learned that the prophetic history would be continually amended to explain why some of the prior predictions didn't come true. And that doesn't shock me if that's true.

I've been down this road before many times. You know, not that long ago, that Jehovah's Witnesses, right? Fact, God tells you when the world is gonna end, also fact, God JKs you. And then tells you later why you fed you some bullshit the first time. Uh for a set as an incoming staff member I was required to listen to and understand this pH prophetic history.

This was exciting to me because the stories were powerful and profound. These prophetic words supposedly were given to confirm that Mike Bickel was to start iHOP KC. Every intern and staff member that comes to IHOP KC is required to listen to and study the pH. The pH is the foundation of the IHOP movement itself without its history. IHOP KC would not exist. The pH was brought up in almost every staff meeting and every group meeting and I was a part of while at IHOP KC, the leaders would bring up stories from the pH, then cherry pick Bible verses that seem to back up and validate these stories and convince the members that the movement in the pH was entirely in line with biblical teaching. I later learned that this pH that I spent years of my life learning and teaching had been

amended little by little over 25 years time to explain away why some of the early or prophetic words and predictions from the pH did not come to pass. I've heard stories of young people who felt like they have missed God's plant plan because they left IHOPKC instead of staying on as a staff member to help see the pH fulfilled. I've also heard stories of young people who felt that they weren't supposed to go to college because often when the pH was spoken of, it was shared along with quotes like this. We are at the end of the age. Jesus is returning. You can go to college and get a piece of paper

where you can spend your life in prayer and get a degree from heaven. I've talked about it before, so I won't beat a dead horse too much now. But my dad, real dad, not my suck first serial killer version of dead, we get so pissed here and this if he listened to the show. He didn't go to college for the same reason.

Neither did any of his five brothers. Why get a degree if the world is definitely going to end in a few years? Why start a fucking IRA? Why have much of a savings account? It's a terrible lie to sell to people. You know, because in this situation, this is what's happening. Mike Bickle is going to be fine if the world doesn't end in a couple years. He's worth millions.

But what about followers of his who have dedicated themselves to a teachings at the expense of their financial future? They're not going to be fine. And also this revising church history, if this has occurred here, it definitely has occurred in similar ways with other groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses, where there's documentation of it, where there are old books that people had, you know, from decades and decades ago, where there's documentation of it where there are old books that people had, you know, from decades and decades ago where there are these, you know, prophecies that newer books, part of the core theology of the job as witnesses now act like their previous books were never written, like these prophecies just never occurred. There's whitewash it. And, you know, LDS has done the same

thing with some of their earlier teachings where they have revised things to get some of the uglier aspects of teachings from the 19th century, early a 20th century, and just erase them. So this would not be unique if this group was doing it. Foray continues, sure, go to college, but most Christians who go to college end up falling away from the faith and denying Jesus. This is a terrible motivational speech. Sets young people up for failure. Either giving them an expectation that they can't be a Christian, while in college, or giving them false hope that Jesus will return quicker if they would just stay in prayful

time with the house of prayer and Casey. It steals real dreams and real hopes from the hearts of talented and vulnerable young people who were created to learn, grow, and impact society in positive ways. Right? Well said. If again, if this is this allegation is true, well said. For a said that, uh, IHOPKC recruits young people who are zealous for God and brainwashes them, he said, Mike constantly taught that our prayers for justice would bring Jesus back to the earth,

and that upon his return, he would proceed to kill and destroy multitudes of unbelievers. Quote, Jesus will personally kill multitudes of people at his return their blood will be on his garments from slaying them Mike would say according to foray this with great confidence Why the fuck? And to keep hammering this killer Christ message that is so fucking dark Pray pray children of God pray for Christ return Pray the Christ will bring his sword of justice and slay those starving kids in India, who you sometimes see an infomercial,

so are starving to death and need your donations to live. Pray that Killer Christ behead Tom Cruise and all his Scientologist buddies. Pray that Killer Christ runs Morgan Freeman. Write it to the Hilt, damn him and Brad Pitt and Kier Knightley and Jody Foster and Billy Joel and Kevin Bacon and other Hollywood hustlers who do not believe.

That's a very disturbing drum to beat. When Farah started looking at theologies that differed from IHOP, he and his friends were subjected to a seven-hour interrogation he said. If you find yourself in a ministry situation with spiritual leaders who ask you not to listen to other teachers outside of their organization and don't allow for a difference in theological views and run their entire ministry, your church based off of highly subjective prophetic words. I would encourage you to take a deeper look in the ministry or better yet find a different place to plant yourself.

All right. All this context now laid out. Stived deeper. Let's cover the history of Mike Bickle and the founding of IHOP. It's controversy. IHOP's prophetic history and more in today's time suck timeline. Right after a word from this episode's sponsors. And now we truly enter our IHOP

but not the pretty tasty pancake kind, but not as tasty as Danny's pancakes kind, timeline. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time suck timeline. Michael Leroy Bickle born in Kansas City, Kansas July 17th, 1955, grew up in the Marlboro neighborhood near 80th and Paseo. His dad was a professional boxer, a champion boxer, according to what some of his Facebook posts have said.

I can only assume his dad was Robert Bobby Bickle, who died in 1974 and Kansas City at the age of 45, competed in the 1952 summer Olympics. Due to term pro in October of 1952, one of his first 17 fights, fought as a pro through October of 1958, finished with a career record of 40 wins, 11 losses and two draws. And in March 1957 Bickle knocked out Terry Lloyd in the fifth round to win the Kansas State lightweight championship Never fought for a major title Sources do not equate Robert to being Mike's dad, but come on

How many fucking boxers from Kansas City could there have been with the last name of Bickle who also age out correctly to have been Mike's dad? Not sure what Robert did in addition to boxing to pay the bills. Mike's mom worked in the home. He had six siblings. Right, seven kids. So Robert must have done something other than sometimes kind of box to keep lights on, especially since he was done with a moderately successful career in boxing by the time Mike was three.

Bickles did not attend church. Young Mike said that he'd often look to the stars at night as a kid. Wonder if God was real. Mike didn't become a Christian until he was 15. His football coach paid for him to attend to a fellowship of Christian athletes student conference and Estee's Park, Colorado. He listened to Dallas Cowboys quarterback Roger Staubach. Speak there about his relationship with Jesus. And that's when Mike decided to become a Christian. Said he nailed to the grassy Colorado field and prayed, God, this is real. I want it. Michael attended center high school in Kansas City, carried around a large Catholic Bible, wore nine inch wooden cross around his neck and said he read his Bible every night.

He attended the University of Missouri for a year after high school, then seems to have ended his studies to focus on an evangelical life. Started preaching to churches in St. Louis, planned a mission trip to Egypt to witness poverty firsthand. Had planned to move to Mexico as a missionary. According to a big article in the pitch of Kansas City Independent News and Culture Source, it's been around for decades. A solid source of my experience,

I've used it for other Kansas City based episodes like the Kansas City Butcher, Bob Brudella. According to this article, he made it to Egypt. In September of 1982, now 27 year old Mike Biggle claims to have had a prophetic experience in Cairo. According to his wife Diane, Mike had just finished a water fast when he traveled to Cairo. Mike claims he heard the voice of God speaking directly to him one night in the hotel room. God told him he would change the understanding and

the expression of Christianity in one generation. Mike was crying and shaking. He'd never experienced anything like that before. God highlighted four main values, night and day prayer, AKA intercession, holiness of heart, offerings to the poor and prophetic ministry. Mike noticed that the four values spelled out IHOP. I bet he did. Probably fucking hungry, think about pancakes.

He said that water fast. When Mike came home a month later, he told Diane their lives would never be the same again. Before moving forward, I want to point out real quick here that to quote mind.org UK, you may experience hallucinations if you're hungry, have low blood sugar or not getting enough food. I could have found a similar quote on countless other websites. Various cultures like the Lakota who fast for four days while embarking on vision quests, fast for spiritual purposes.

Why? Because it is proven to induce hallucinations, sleep deprivation, certain meditative breathing techniques, enhanced by certain music, same thing, proven to induce hallucinations. So did Mike receive a vision from God, or was he fucking hungry?

Seriously, did he really want to receive a vision from God and then get hungry enough to actually hear a disembodied voice from a subconscious, tell him things he was already thinking about. I mean, or as I am prone to wonder when anyone claims to receive messages from God, did any of this ever happen at all? Or is it a con? Upon returning to Kansas, Mike soon made a connection with evangelical pastor Bob Jones. Not the Bob Jones connected to the Christian University of the same name in South Carolina.

This Jones was a prominent religious figure in KC who also claimed to have prophetic ability. So did he ever. So one guy who God speaks directly to talking to another guy, God speaks directly to him. This Bob Jones claimed that when he was nine years old, an angel appeared before him on a road in Arkansas. And then a few years later, you heard the voice of God.

Then as a young adult, he gambled, drank and stole. So God must not have made a real strong connection with young Bob when speaking directly to him. Didn't make a big dent in Bob. Interesting. I expected more from God, expected more from Bob. He was 39. Bob not surprisingly had a complete mental breakdown.

And was admitted to a VA hospital in Topeka. All right. Yeah. Mike's mentor, Bob. Looking more and more unstable. More we learn about him. Joan said that while at the hospital, Satan told him to kill the people who put him in the hospital.

God told him to forgive. Okay, so Bob is blatantly mentally ill, like a lot. Bob was discharged and instructed to never drink again. Says, says even more about Bob. After his lease from the hospital, Jones now started having visions from God on a regular basis and believed he was a prophet. And again, this happens directly after he was fucking institutionalized, or his brain not working right. Clearly, whatever treatment they tried to administer to him didn't work. Bob is fucking cray cray.

Jones now claims that he can feel the Holy Spirit on the wind and that he can smell since like homosexuality. Excuse me, and immorality. Bob claim, I'm not gonna repeat that. Bob claim that he could smell homosexuality on the wind. Bob is fucking batshit crazy. Or once he died in 2014 at the age of 84. And to quote myself from my old standup bits, a dense girl, but Bob was photogenically insane.

You could diagnose mental illness off him just if I look at any picture of him. Do you look like anyone who's had just a fucking crazy uncle, grandpa, whatever, neighbor that's like, ah, be careful when you're talking to that guy. He needs help but he won't get it. That's Bob. Before he died, one of this profits, last predictions, public predictions was that the end times

we're gonna for sure begin right after the Chiefs won the Super Bowl uh... chiefs won in 2020 so uh... so where's killer Christ is in fidel sword bob again this is my mentor uh... or important important person in the mic uh... uh... new as far as you know deeming him worthy of this new transformative religious institution in november of 1982, Mike starts the Kansas City Fellowship. Now the South Kansas City Fellowship in Grandview, Missouri.

Grandview, one of the many suburbs of Kansas City, about 25,000 people living about 50 miles south downtown. Mike encouraged the congregation there to be taken in the spirit, to speak in tongues and he preached the Satan sent demons to earth to battle the Holy Spirit, whether these demons could be cast out by the faithful. Be one of God's chosen warriors. A picture of an old army recruiting poster, right, but instead of Uncle Sam wants you, it's God needs you to defeat demons. Also, how

fucking powerful is Satan? I would think that God can whoop Satan's ass by himself, but doesn't feel like it. Is God Almighty or kind of mighty? It's going on with God. Why does he need so much help? March 7th, 1983, Mike and Bob Jones meet for the first time with the Kansas City Fellowship. Bob Jones helps Mike promote the Kansas City Fellowship. Oh, to be a fly on the wall and listen to those two guys talk. But they had some wild prophetic conversations.

What have they ever tried to like out-profess? One another, right? Just last night, Mike, God told me that you would serve as my second and command when it comes to training his army here on earth to do battle of Satan Really Bob that's it. I used to that's what God told you because God told me I was his number one champion here on earth like for sure He emphasized he said a couple times. He said your number one for sure 100% And he said the Bob is number two close number two But you know in my vision. I gotta say he definitely had you riding shotgun and not and follow me not vice versa

According to Bob Jones at this meeting of the the meeting of the mines God told him to wear a heavy winter coat because it was a sign of a harsh winter to come And he actually did turn out to be right about that snowed in the first day of spring 1983 But the farmer's all maniac also predicted that. Uh, even if not, if you prophesy enough, kind of like it, if you throw enough darts, you're gonna hit a bulls eye here and there. Uh, God now supposedly told Bob and that Mike and his fellowship had a calling for 24, seven prayer and they would pray for Israel.

They would be connected all the way to Asia and people would watch them on unplugged TVs and Bob predicted the exact location of the new church. When Mike expressed doubts, Bob told him that he wouldn't receive his message until the first day of spring when it would snow. Deb Hibb from the pitch and Kansas City wrote, the prophet was a country boy and this is Bob. The prophet was a country boy from Arkansas with poor grammar and strange ways. His pant legs rode up about three inches above a socks. His bare stomach sometimes poked from, uh, poked out from ill-fitting shirts. Jones rambling prophecies were metaphors that few could comprehend. In his technical revisions, he stood in cloud padded courtrooms

of God or wrestled burly minions of Satan. Bobby sounds exactly like, uh, who I thought it would be based on pictures of him. In April of 1983, God told Mike to begin a 21-day water fast on May 7th. On that day, an unproductive comment would fly across the sky. That did happen. And that's fucking weird. This comment's shown up. Mike began having three prayer meetings a day at his church because of the message he received about night and day prayer.

Then one day, the church staff, Noel, Alexander, Red Psalms, and told Mike they should sing their prayers. And in May of 1983, Mike called churches in Kansas City to complete a 21 day fast. The Lord had told Mike to pray every hour of every day in the spirit of the tabernacle of David. 1990, the Kansas City Fellowship joined with the Association of Vineyard Churches, led by John Wimber and was renamed to Metro vineyard Christian fellowship KCF part of the MCVF until 1996 By 1990 Bechel allegedly passed for the group known as the candid city prophets Sweet, which include people like Bob Jones Paul Caine and John Paul Jackson

Bickle now claims there was no group called the Kansas City prophets and that the term cluster to a whole bunch of personalities into one group and one stereotype. However, numerous sources do state this group was real. Another prophet Paul Cain allegedly received a message from an angel in his early 20s. This angel told him that God was jealous of his friends. F*** him, weird. Cain decided to become a celibate but withdrew from the ministry until 1958. Didn't preach again until the 1970s when he was in his 40s, and then the 1980s he joins

Bickel and this profit group. This guy also sounds totally batchit. God was jealous of his friends. Is the God these guys worship an all-powerful wise and omnipotent being or an emotionally unstable and petty junior high girl? You don't care about me. Oh, you talk about his Becky and Sarah. John Paul Jackson died in 2015 at the age of 64.

He was another doomsday preacher who spent his life trying to convince people that the world is terrible and killer Christ will soon return to fuck up us. He then's early 1990 Mike Bickle in the Kansas City Fellowship or criticized by pastor Ernie Gruin in his sermons and 130 page document title, documentation of the aberrant practice and teachings of Kansas City Fellowship. Gruen wrote that the church was close

to becoming a charismatic hearsay and cult. Heresy and cult group. And that they received their visions from familiar spirits. Not sure what he meant by familiar spirits there. I think you've just saying that these guys were full of shit. Gruehn criticized Bigel's teachings on eschatology and documented cases of manipulative uses of prophecy at the KCF. And eschatology, that word to come up a couple times now, a branch of theology concerned

with the final events in the history of the world, right, of the end times. Pastor Gruehn seems to have been sharing the same concerns I am, right? This dude is using end times fear to manipulate people into joining his group, selling fear, rarely a fan of that. Then a 1993, Becklen Groen released a joint statement to clear their conflict resolved, and it read May 16th, 1993. This is a joint statement from the leadership of full faith, church-alove ministries, and metro vineyard fellowship in Kansas City.

Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, the same Lord, and there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. For even as the body is one and yet as many members and all the members of the body, though they are many are one body, so also is Christ. Ernie Groen and Mike Pickle have forgiven each other of all offenses. Their senior leadership has come together in the spirit of forgiveness, who also asked the body of Christ to forgive us of any offenses that we have caused the church universal, right? Then it just goes on to kind of like a pile on the same thing. Signed Ernie Groen, signed Mike Pickle.

What happened there? Did they got some dirt on Groen? Or did they just agree to disagree? Interesting. May 7th, 1999 in a CC Italy, Mike now hears the Lord tell him that he, God, would raise up friends of the bridegroom for runner messengers to prepare the bride for Christ's return. Wonder if prior to that vision, Mike was into which pasta? Right? Too many delicious Italian pastries, not enough protein. Maybe he had his blood sugar off. 1999 might be a left metro Christian fellowship, now in mega church, with over 3,000 members and founded IHOP, the international house of prayer. Mike did fast prior to coming up with that name again, right? Was he thinking about God when he came up with that

or sweet sugary pancakes? Was he touched by the divine or hungry is fuck. Now I'm picturing all those Snickers commercials, right? You're not you and you're hungry. Maybe this whole church would have never gotten started if Mike were just had a Snickers at the right time. God has chosen me to help him lead about the last days. Hey Mike, take him by this.

Huh, thank you, I'm starving. I'm gonna like two minutes later once he's finished. Mike, were you saying about the last days? Ha, I have no idea. That was babbling. I feel like I was about to pass out. I think I was kind of crazy shooting. I get hungry enough. 1999, big year for Doomsday Profits. Worried about the world ending in 2000 or even 2012. A series of events happens that will become part of IHOP's important prophetic

history. In February of 1999, Kingsley Fletcher, yet another so-called prophet from Africa. There was no fucking shortage of prophets in this suck. Can't throw a rock without hitting a prophet. He prophesied that Mike would begin the house of prayer. Mike prayed for a preacher to take over Metro Christian fellowship so he could move on. And Kingsley also seems absolutely insane.

Do things he's an actual king of Ghana, and runs what seems to be a shady motivational speaking business out of North Carolina now. Calls himself King Adam Tay often introduced by the title of his Royal Majesty, Dr. Lord Baso Adam Tay the first, very humble, in promotional pictures for his motivational speaking engagements, he is dressed like a four star general and stands in front of an actual throne. Also refers to himself as a professor, even though I can't find any information that

he ever attended any credit university or any institution of higher learning. A lot of characters, a lot of fucking characters in this story. This guy, Elrond Hubbard vibes for me at least, very self-important. So also in 1999 Floyd McCleung, worldwide mission leader and leader at youth with the mission came to town, oh, why, Wham! There's some kind of why-wham retreat near near Riggins right grew up in Idaho. I don't know if it's still there or not But I went there once for sleepover Weird fucking sleepover. I had some other kid get me all worked up both of us got all worked up He was tried he tried he sold me that this third kid was possessed by demons

We got so scared we were We were too afraid to sleep, because mom eventually got so mad at us, because we couldn't sleep, and we kept running to the parents to tell them that they had to do something about this demon kid. Or he's gonna like, you know, I don't know, kill us all. Now I know where my sleepover buddy

got these kind of concerns from, right? Why WAM? Is it maybe quite as doomsday, but it is concerned about the end times as well. Very concerned about spiritual warfare. Mike asked Floyd what he was doing there. Floyd said he needed to start a church. We're looking for the right city. Mike felt this was another sign. Now Mike needed a building for his house of prayer. A man in town named Bob Hartley offered him a group of trailers for that use. Mike wanted the Lord to confirm this to

his friend, Noel Alexander, for reasons not made totally clear. Noel now invited Mike to speak at his church. Noel told Mike that when he was at a conference in London, a man approached him and asked him if he was Noel Alexander, a stranger told him he would return to Kansas City and that he and Mike would start the house of prayer and that at a second conference in England, another stranger told him exact same thing. I'm skeptical. I'm very skeptical that any of that happened. But I don't know, I wasn't there, I guess. March of 1999, the four of us entered school to prayer later,

IHOP University was founded. This school taught people to become intercessors. And an intercessor within IHOP, sort of a prayer warrior. Someone who helps keep the 24th, 7th, 365 prayers going to strengthen God and help bring about the second coming, you know, final demons, what not not feel to sick off all sort of stuff To pull from iHop's website God will raise up 24 7 prayer ministries in the end times Which will never be silent until Jesus returns 24 7 dimension of this promise implies that some intercessors and ministries

Are called to engage in this as a full-time occupation God's promise to appoint intercessors indicates that he will make a way for them to walk in this calling, including financial provision. Some are concerned that intercessory missionaries may develop lazy, isolated lives and prayer to touch from the real needs of the people. Anyone who was prayed for hours and one day with fasting and then gone out to preach the gospel will know that the call to be an intercessory missionaries, not for lazy people. Some ask if too much prayer leads intercessors to neglect walking in love for others. I have observed just the opposite. And then it just kind of continues to talk about how important this concept prayer is. I just had the most random thought of I know this would be messed up,

but it would be funny to me just to see reactions if I dressed up in a cheesy Satan costume and Went and somehow shut the power off to the building where they pump out the 24th Seven pairs like all of a sudden they can't do their instruments and then is walking like it is over It is all over now your cause is lost, but they'd probably kill me Or I don't know. I don't know what happened, but For my own amusement they'd be fun to see that moment May 7th 1999 Mike and 20 full-time intercessory missionaries found the international house of I don't know, I don't know what happened, but for my own amusement, they'd be fun to see that moment. May 7th, 1999, Mike and 20 full time intercessory missionaries found the International House of Prayer.

They offer prayer sessions 13 hours a day and the trailer is offered to Mike. Four months later, September 19th, 1999, IHOP extends their prayer services to 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Musicians and intercessors sign up for Nightwatch, which allows the hours to increase. The next month, October of 1999, IHOP hires their first five interns and they've been up and running ever since. What are they up to right now? How's the music going? Let's give it a head. Come on, catch up live.

All right, you must've just got from a little rotation switch. Up there gonna build. There's people in the seats, washing. Not a lot of people right now that varies, but you know, hey, party keep the house full. You literally, when the concert literally never ends. It is crazy that you can click on this website any time. And then there are just so many people who play music. Just over a year later, in January of 2001,

IHOP Casey's record label, For Run or Music, founded by Nick Sorette, Steve E. Opens on the Church's Property in Shiloh in spring of 2001. February 26th, 2001, the group has gathered enough financial support for members to buy a small strip mall on red bridge road in Kansas City They move from the trailers to the new location with office space and meeting rooms buildings roughly 7,000 square feet Share a space with friends in the bridegroom another bickle organization and the forerunner school deprares the whole strip mall now is

Bickle city Mike told the pitch we've gotten mixed responses some people are fearful. have an agenda, but really nice people and we can't take your house. Okay, that's a weird response. Some people, some people, you know, think we have shading tensions, but listen, we're nice and we can't take your house. What do we have to say? We can't take your house. Where's that come from? Am I a bad guy? I'll let you answer that question by answering this one. Can I take your house from you? Can I?

No? Well, I guess I'm a pretty good guy. What? That's a weird barometer for who's a good or bad guy. September 18th, 2001, Lenny and Tracy LaGuardia moved to Kansas City to join IHOP and established a Children's Equipping Center, CEC. This organization has camps, conferences, training for kids for ages one through 12.

I have KC, lists of CEC's values for children on their website, Bible literacy, prayer, praise and worship, power, signs and wonders, and not getting their heads cut off by warrior Jesus. I know the last part was prophetic. And you have to pay to go these camps. Price is not listed on the website. Get it in choir to get that info. They do seem to be making a lot of money as they'll share later. December 11th, 2001, a higher grounds cafe at coffee shop next to church opens for business

January of 2002, iop kc host their first one thing conference at the Kansas City Convention Center several thousand people attend and the event will grow more and more you know bigger and bigger until it's 25,000 plus. March 21st, 2003, iopC purchases the, the hern hut apartments next door to the prayer room. These apartments will house staff interns and visitors. Be nice little real estate investment for the group. March 7, 2003, the prayer room moved into the new Redbridge Center, dedicated on that day.

Web streaming streaming of the prayer room began that year. 2007, the prayer room, web stream expanded from one to seven cameras and full-time streaming hasn't stopped since. According to a 2009 article from the McClatchee Tribune IHOP initially charged $10 a month for access to the prayer room. And a lot of people may be paid that $10 a month. In 2007, IHOP made $ four million eighty eighty one thousand dollars overall revenue uh... did that against the supposed four million fifty seven thousand in expenses and i say supposed it i don't know i just doubt that their expenses that high uh... unless those expenses included like you know uh... buying real estate assets written off his

losses according to july royes dot com a christian website based on its own words reporting the truth restoring the church IHOP KC generated 23.28 million dollars in revenue in the fiscal year 2015 and Revenue exceeded 20 million dollars annually in 2017 18 and 19 as well. That's a lot of fucking money That comes from a 2021 article with the headline international house of Prayer resigns from evangelical council for financial accountability. Why would they resign? Seems like the council felt like these guys are maybe con in their supporters and getting rich off of them. Seems like IHOPKC doesn't want to have to report anymore about how much money they're making.

And so if I just couldn't find the reports, I apologize, but I couldn't. It seems like a shady thing for a religious institution to do if they're doing that and Well, I don't have any expenses to subtract against those yearly totals. I can determine from iHOP Casey's own website that Intercessory missionaries and other staff members raised most of the money to fund their work for those positions from congregants or just outside sources not from iHOP Casey. On their FAQ pages written our worship leaders singers and musicians supported with any of my donations. And the answer is yes, we provide small stipends to some full-time staff as needed. Our staff build their own financial support team of individuals who partner with them financially and in prayer, and then they help as necessary. Also written is how do international house

prayer staff members support themselves financially. Answers our staff members commit to raise their own financial support through the development of a team of personal partners. So again, right, they get their own money, says they help a little bit, and then it says your gifts make that possible. So according to financial documents, they're making over $20 million a year,

several years in a row at least, make them money that they don't have to pay taxes on and they're paying staff next to nothing. So where's all the money going? I have to think a lot of it ends up in Mike Bigel's bank account because where else would it go? September 19th 2009 marks the 10-year anniversary of the church. The staff renews their commitments to 24-7 prayer and worship. August 2010. New eye-hop you campus opens. Students from all three schools study on the same campus the summer of the school gets permission to accept international students. September 14th, 2010, the International House of Pancakes, Sue's IHOPKC, for trademark delusion and

infringement. Oh shit! Pancakes versus God! Who wins Sunday Sunday Sunday The International House of Prayer takes on the International House of Pancakes Can Killer Christ in his non-stop prayer team defeats not just original bottom-mill pancakes But also strawberry banana pancakes cupcake pancakes chocolate chocolate chip pancakes Mexican trace lettuce pancakes protein pancakes Not just blueberry but double blueberry pancakes and don't even get me started on crepes. Serve versus salvation. Who goes home hungry? Who goes to hell? Uh, I have alleged that I have KC misappropriated I have trademarks with the website I have.org.

And signs and events that the headquarters in Kansas City, Missouri, and California, spokesman Patrick Laugh said that the church's use of IHOP was confusing to customers and risked associating the chain with a particular religion. Pretty funny to me and that's a pretty legitimate lawsuit. I mean, imagine if a group of reactive Satanists started calling themselves KFC, kill followers of Christ. I would think that the chicken chain would maybe also talk to some lawyers.

IHOP KC refused requests to stop using the name before I have filed the suit. December 21, 2010, I have dropped their lawsuit against the church with an out of court settlement. And now I have is known as I have KC. So I guess, you know, pancakes did defeat God, which is surprising. I wonder if Bickle ever received a vision about that. Surprise is original vision called for him to name his Christian group after an existing large breakfast food chain. On the evening of October 30th, 2012, tragedy occurs that will bring the organization a lot

of unwanted attention. Former IHOP KC intern Bethany Deaton found dead in her vehicle. This is a crazy story. Sheriff Tepi responded to a call about a dead body at Longwood Lake, Longview Lake picnic shelter, number 12 in Kansas City. The report stated that a tan forward wind star was parked in the parking lot and a dead young woman was in the back seat. She had a white plastic bag pulled up over her head and tied up.

There was a suicide note left on the center console. There were 200 count bottles of acetaminophen PM on the center console. One of them was empty. The other one was unopened. There was a photo ID for Bethany Deaton. RN, it menorah medical center on the floorboard. And Bethany's front seat, some CDs, produced by IHOP KC, wasn't clear what exactly would cause Bethany to take her own life. The Jackson County Medical Examiner's office declared her death a suicide or body was released for burial in Arlington, Texas until the man came forward with a confession. And let's take a long break from the timeline to discuss the death of Bethany Deeden and

the many events that led up to it in a lot more detail. Just going to take a quick sip. While the actions of the people that led to this tragedy will not be condoned by Mike Bickle or IHOP Casey, I think this little side road we're going to travel down illustrates the danger of opening up the can of worms of prophecy, right? When you preach that any of your members can receive prophecy, when you promote the possibility that God can send you direct revelations about what your purpose is and what you should do with your life. That's a fucking scary Pandora's box to open up, right? You kick off a very dangerous slippery slope.

They can lead to a good people getting caught up in a dangerous game of thinking that they're following God's prophecies when really they're following the often damaging delusions of a narcissist and or maniac. Bethany Deaton was a 27 year old recent nursing school graduate. Her supervisor described her as an excellent empathetic nurse. Bethany moved to Grandview after she graduated from Southwestern University, small liberal arts college in Georgetown, Texas, where she was a member of an IHOP group there. Many of the other members there had moved to Grandview before she did and lived in gender-separated

houses nearby. In August of 2012, Bethany married worship leader Tyler Deaton. Bethany and Tyler claimed that they were in love and wanted to go through the great tribulation together. At period of time, when the world experiences immense hardships right before Killer Christ comes down with his death sword, starts butchering people in ways that will make Hitler not seem like too bad a guy by comparison. On November 9, 2012, Mike Moore, a friend of Bethany, and a member of the Worship group, walked into the Grand View Police Department to defend or to confess to murdering Bethany, per Tyler's orders.

Moore claimed that over the past few months, Bethany was dozed with Seroquel, some anti-psychotic, sorry for pronouncing that word wrong, it's S-E-R-O-Q-U-E-L. Seroquel. Thank you, Tyler. Man, perfect. You say Seroquel, okay, Seroquel, anti-psychotic. coq-e-l seraquil thank you Tyler man What perfect? You say seraquil okay seraquil anti-psychotic and sexiest all to buy various iHOP KC members I'm gonna thank Tyler again for saving me a lot of emails Commented about like why can't you figure out his word?

But they were worried that she would report the abuse he. And then two men living in the same house as Tyler, one who had recently moved out to a police that they were in ongoing sexual relationships with Tyler, a fourth man reported the Tyler groomed him to be part of his sexual group. While the sex stuff, probably true, the murder part definitely not true. Two weeks later, Moore's lawyer said that his confession was false and made by a distraught and confused young man. And yes, very distraught and confused. Jackson County prosecutors office charged Mike Amor with first degree murder, but he was

granted bail. Tyler Dayton not charged and was willing to cooperate with the police. Tyler was listed as the vision coordinator for IHOP KC friendship groups until November 4, 2012. But IHOP KC announced that Tyler's group was not connected to IHOP KC or known by IHOP KC leaders. I do think that's bullshit. I can't prove it.

I think they wanted to really distance himself from this guy for optics reasons. I think Tyler absolutely was connected to IHOP KC based on online chatter and numerous investigative journalism articles written about him, you know, full of interviews with people familiar with both him and IHOP KC. Maybe not when this happened, but very close to it. Melanie Morgan, one of Micah Moore's lawyers said in December of 2012, the fact suggests Bethany Deaton's death was an unfortunate suicide. And Micah Moore had nothing to do with that.

On August, excuse me, October 31, 2014, the Jackson County Missouri prosecutor dismissed the murder charge against Moore, and they should have Micah not well. Poor dude had a very bad LSD trip in college that he apparently never recovered from. And as a fan of LSD, I will say again, though, not for everyone. As I said before, it can trigger underlying mental illness. In my experience, psychedelics tend to act mostly, but not always, but mostly as an emotional accelerators, right? Mostly, sometimes DMT, I swear, can take two to another place. I can't fully describe it, that'll sound like a crazy person.

But mostly, rather than bringing new truths, I think they usually take shit for your subconscious and just bring it to the forefront. Like if you're worried about demons, for example, very worried, which Michael was before he did his LSD. And you have a strong fear of demons on your brain. And you're already prone to kind of magical thinking. You actually think that like there could be demons

out there coming for you, right? And then you take a fucking big dose of LSD, there is a very good chance that your trip is going to be ch chalk full of demons. And they're going to seem so real. Michael sounds like a religious minded young man who was worried about demons saw so many demons during this trip. They were trying to destroy his soil and then after his trip at a hard time distinguishing

reality from imagination. Right. Maybe if he'd gotten some good drug counseling put on some good anti-sacotics, well, he could have recalibrated his brain, but that didn't happen here. Instead, he surrounded himself with prophetic and apocalyptic. I helped KC adherence and his mind got pretty bent. And by the time Beth and he died,

he didn't know what was really more and what was just some crazy thought in his head. Prosecutor Jean Peter's Baker released a statement saying, my office concluded that we could not ethically continue to pursue the case given the current evidence. Most of the following information comes from the 2014 Rolling Stone article by Jeff Teats and Rolling Stone man, after doing years of research while I don't often end up using them as a source because they don't often do deep dives on subjects that I'm also covering but but when they do, man, they typically do some fantastic journalism. Rolling so in a minute, their article after more was clear to any

criminal wrongdoing, saying with a trial no longer eminent, Baker's office and Moore's defense attorneys released critical pieces of exulpatory evidence for the first time. When we reported this story a year earlier without access to this new information, we presented the criminal case against Moore as entirely credible, more implicated, Tyler Deaton and the alleged crime, and we presented that implication as credible as well. But the evidence available now suggests overwhelmingly that Bethany Deaton committed suicide and that more in Deaton are innocent of any crime. We now know every verifiable statement more made to detectives was either proven false,

or was contradicted by the evidence. After the confession, investigators discovered that no additional evidence that a crime had occurred and both circumstantial and forensic evidence point to suicide, we urge readers to reconsider this story in light of the totality of the evidence. Okay, so now let's start from the beginning of this story. Tyler Deaton felt commanded by God to form a worship group on July 20th, 2007. He was standing outside of Barnes and Noble, waiting for the midnight release of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. I remember seeing people do that.

Earlier that summer, he'd gone to Pakistan on a mission trip where he claimed to have had supernatural experiences. He made amongst other wild claims, but this one's my favorite, that he witnessed a boy with one leg experience a miracle where he grew a new fucking leg. That claim alone should invalidate the credibility of this dude, right? Never in human history has anyone miraculously grown a new fucking limb. Never has a doctor treated a patient with one leg. And then later, they're like, oh shit, a patient with one leg. And then later

been like, Oh, shit. Now you got another leg. Hey, how do you get that leg? Get the fuck out of here. I refute this as a guy who thinks that goes surreal. Right? So I'm open to believing in unprovable shit. Is there a perfect concrete proof of ghosts? No. And then maybe they're not real. I just choose to believe it. But there's so many claims of encounters with entities. And on numerous occasions, human shaped shadows, right? I've been caught in video, that kind of thing. claims of encounters with entities and on numerous occasions human shaped shadows Right, I've been caught in video that kind of thing, but yeah, could they've been photoshopped? Sure, whatever Here's the thing a secretive entity that appears as a shadowy bean won't require the same level of proof to be real as

regrowing a fucking leg Also more important hard to disprove Anyone they've ever seen a ghost right very easy on the other hand to disprove a claim for new leg. This to be true the kidding question must exist. So where's the evidence right the photo to testimony the medical records. Nothing. After not seeing this happen Tyler said that God told him on the night of July 20th what you didn't pack and stand or excuse me what you didn't pack a stand.

You are going to do it Southwestern. So I guess he was part of this miracle. He helped I don't know grow this kids leg back. God didn't suppose he said the names of three people who knew from school who are going to form a group and they would be the ones to shift the spiritual atmosphere of campus and bring on a revival. Well, they didn't title was a junior at Southwest University. I just brought up in Georgetown, a big college town just a few miles outside of

Austin, loved fantasy novels, especially Harry Potter stuff, came from a strict Presbyterian family, Christian himself. According to a friend named Bo's Harrington, Tyler did practice magic in middle school, and had a mysterious power to control others in ways that are unexplainable. Bo's met Tyler the first week of freshman year 2005, said he seemed like a nice person.

He said Tyler was confident person, with strong debate skills. Excuse me. Also, that was arrogant. Thought his ideas were obviously right and anyone who disagreed was wrong. Tata was also blatantly gay, refused to accept that, though. He was troubled by what he called homosexual impulses. Told his friends he felt worthless. I just know that sociologically, sociologically, there's a connection between this power obsessed, dark magician, evil dictator thing, and altered sexuality, is what he said, which is a fact and weird sense for anyone to utter.

Tyler was determined to overcome these urges. Sounds like Tyler, maybe finally is accepted who he is now. CBS did a 48 hours episode on Bethany's death in 2015, and Tyler Dayton spoke to them and said, to me being gay meant you were this messed up even like villainous person, you couldn't love God. It was so I didn't identify as gay. Which to me, it sounds like he does now.

The whole denouncement of homosexuality, this belief, but as a choice, when and if ever are religious institutions gonna stop doing that, right? Psychologists have contended for decades. that sexual orientation is not a conscious choice. Also, although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed. According to current scientific understanding, the core attractions that form the basis for adult sexual orientation, typically emerge between middle childhood and early adolescents

and they're fixed. that form the basis for adult sexual orientation, typically emerged between middle childhood and early adolescents and then they're fixed. These patterns of emotional, romantic and sexual attraction may arise without any prior sexual experience. People can be still a bit, still know that their sexual orientation is lesbian, gay, bisexual, heterosexual, whatever. And all major national mental health organizations

have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation because they don't fucking work. To date, there have been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapies aimed at changing sexual orientation, often called conversion therapy, is safe or effective. And finally, just anecdotally, it just doesn't make any fucking sense for generation after generation. People to choose a sexual preference that historically has

carried with it great stigma, destroyed their social standings, destroyed career ambitions and familial relationships and sadly also in many cases led directly to their deaths. Why has every culture on earth always had homosexual members? Why have scientists documented homosexual behavior in numerous other animal species like sheep, bats dolphins or rangitangs? Is it because some of us creatures are just born with something inside of us that will later cause us to be attracted To be attracted to a member of the same sex or is it because of the devil? You know tempting us humans and sheep and fruit bats et cetera. I mean can we please just stop with this? June Justin and Bethany were all Christians and like fantasy novels like Tyler.

They all compared themselves to the Pavecy family in the Chronicles of Narnia. Hopefully I'm saying that right. Pavecy? Pavecy, I knew you would know that. I knew he would know the Narnia family. Pavecy. Yeah, a family in the Chronicles of Narnia who would serve as soldiers of the Messiah and later act as kings and queens of a new world. I did like the Narnia books. I never watch the show so, probably should. They called their group the community and they spent hours discussing mostly Harry Potter. I expected it to be Jesus, no Harry Potter. According to Bo's Harrington, these discussions took on a religious devotion. The Harry Potter books fueled our sense of being on a divine mission.

He said, one of their chief attractions was a sense of belonging to a secret club with exclusive access to knowledge and power. That was the root of our whole ideology. Oh boy. Harry Potter and fantasy fueled Tyler's beliefs that he had powers. And Harrington told Rolling Stone, in the years I was with him, things were constantly happening that I had to struggle with as being the work of the Holy Spirit. Tyler would raise his voice and say,

Jesus, and the neighbor's music would immediately stop. He would tell the birds to fly away and they would. He would place curses on my appliances so they wouldn't work. Oh, fuck. Sorry. Fuck is going on with curses on appliances. Did any of that really happen?

Why would anyone curse an appliance? There's so much crazy in this story. Bethany was reserved woman, but she was devoted to Tyler's group. Bethany and her five siblings were raised in a Christian home in Dallas. They were at home school. Bethany earned a scholarship to Southwestern. Bethany was a caring person. Her friends loved her. She read Charles Dickens, loved writing, ran a blog. Dream was to live in a cottage in the woods and work as a writer and professor at a university. She wanted to be married and have kids. She had prayed for her husband since she was a teen and we'd even write letters to her future husband, which to me it's also a little crazy.

She was attracted to Tyler Deeden, felt like he was the man God wanted her to marry. She knew about his struggles with his sexuality, but felt like God was going to use her to heal Tyler's sexuality. That is not how fucking works. There are zero evidence. Again, that if you just, you know, like, care enough about someone, you can get them to switch teams. Like it's pretty arrogant to think you can't to teach anyone that it does work like

that. I mean, it's just what a terrible thing to do. We know better now. We have the studies of science to promote that homosexuality can be healed like it's a disease. It's just cruel. Ah, and so on, that's it. But when Bethany told her parents about the prayer group, they were excited that she had found a group of Christian friends. And they'll grow concerned soon enough.

December 2007, Tyler's cousin encouraged him to attend an IHOP conference in Kansas city. Excuse me. Tyler wrote to his group afterwards, friends, I kid you not. When I say that I feel God has transformed me more in a short period of time than I've been so far in my life, I have one word attached to one phrase that God has violently poured into my heart. It is echoing in the heavens, right? This instant, and I mean that literally that word, that phrase is this revival through prayer and worship.

Friends, I freaking cannot wait to talk to you in person. Love that he threw a freaking in there. Gosh dang, excuse me. January 2008, everyone in Deaton's group was devoted to IHOP. They bought books and music, listened to sermons, took trips to NAR conferences. And NAR, if I didn't define it already, I know I think I said it's new apostolic,

new apostolic, oh my gosh, new Apostle Apostle Apostle Apostle. There we go. My God. Today words are harder than usual. It's a modern Christian religious movement that emphasizes experience over scripture, mysticism over doctrine, and modern day Apostles over the plain text of the Bible. And I'm sure it's pretty easy to see how much crazy can come from all that when you emphasize experience over, you know, At least a book everyone can agree to read It's a movement encouraging you to listen to the voices inside your head somewhat You know, but then also filter those voices through the lens of Christianity

So only listen to some of the voices some of the time That's not gonna lead to any confusion Tyler Deaton was most inspired by the final quest by Rick joiner, an NAR leader. Joiner claims he wrote this book in a trans state, a book about a final battle again between Good and Evil. Joiner also characterizes himself as a saint who will fight in the great tribulation. And joiner, ah, another, I don't know, weirdo who thinks he's one of these, one of these gods chosen warriors for this final battle.

When in my eyes, he's a half-assed hack of an author who couldn't sell a book if he didn't have the purchasing base of a Doomsday obsessed, you know, people to sell to. This dude has gotten in trouble with the IRS over using his tax exempt status to try and hide millions and millions of dollars, being spent obviously non-religious ways like on a private fucking airport for him and his rich friends. He is supported in publicly defended faith healers who not only have claimed to heal the sick, but who have claimed to raise the fucking dead. What are we doing here? That's even crazier than Tyler's claim. They saw a kid get a new lake. No one of these guys get rich. If you can get followers to believe some of this shit, I mean, there's

nothing you can't sell them. In March of 2021, join our urge Christians to own weapons to prepare for what he believed will be an inevitable civil war in the US against those who he says stole 2020 presidential election from Republicans. Join us, he's a hero character. Literally all five of his kids have publicly denounced

his beliefs. To me, he's another ego maniacminiacal narcissist, right? Scaring people over demons and using their fear to make himself millions. Yet another false prophet pretending to be one of God's chosen leaders. I hope I never get so jaded that I failed to be outraged by manipulative people like Rick Joiner, praying on people who are just craving a closer connection to God. Tyler was obsessed, believed that like Joer, he too, had been ordered by God to train a spiritual army. Tyre thought he had supernatural powers and the authority

to bring God's judgment to anyone who went against him. All right, here we go. Bethany encouraged her friend Micah Moore to join this group with Tyler. They met in English class in fall of 2007, hit it off immediately. In the past, as I mentioned, Moore had taken too much acid, who loosened native a great battle between angels and demons over his soul. He was still worried about. Still questioning reality. Moore was described as a thoughtful and melancholic young man, pleasant person, musician, seemed like he was looking for answers in life.

Moore believed that he was under attack constantly from demons and the group would pray over him, which would make him feel safe. Moore quickly became devoted to the group, often said things like, God is so pure and we are so sinful that the only way we can ever go near him is because of Jesus. Without Jesus, God can't even look at us. I bet the other members of the group are like, yeah, now, totally, Micah. Mm-hmm. And then probably try to like, you know, segue into something else.

A lot of great things going on here. This is all very healthy. More believe that Tyler Deaton and special gifts are powers. Tyler told CBS that he became friends with Micah because they were both musicians. All the group members felt like Tyler had a special connection with God

as he constantly talked about having and they wanted that connection too. So they tried to get close to him to help get closer to God. I have members believe that God gave Micah Bickel prophetic gifts, but I have leaders cannot limit their congregations gifts, right? As someone would go to Mike Bickle and say that they were also an apostle or prophet, he

would likely believe them or at least publicly claim to. So Tyler was not challenged by anyone in the group. Everyone believed he was an end times apostle because he said he was. Just like IHOP preached, if you believe and you think you have a vision, well, I go on your profit. It's almost like when you join them up with IHOP KC, you get a box of cracker jacks. And inside that box, the free prize

is a little card that says congrats your profit now. Feels like everyone in this story is a profit. By the spring of 2008, Tyler's group had 20 members. They believed that Tyler could hear the voice of good and was on a spiritual mission. Tyler started to micromanage the group now. Once made the move tables at a panda express, because he felt a spot of darkness approach them. He forbade Bose Harrington once from going out for some fast food one night because his friends had

quote spirits of delusion resting upon them. So this is all moving in a very healthy direction. In the fall of 2008, Tyler Deeden was finishing his final semester of college. His followers claimed that they saw signs of the end times everywhere now. Naturally, of course, it's on the brain. Tyler told them that a Christian shouldn't fear death because they wouldn't die before their work was done. Tyler Deaton now latched onto IHOP's bridegroom theology. He played IHOP music when he led worship sessions. He called Christ the bridegroom and the group brides. Deaton even wants to encourage members to pray and quote cuddle with Jesus. That is a creepy thing to say.

Members reported that dating or pda was discouraged because marriage prophecies would determine who would date who these prophecies were not promoted by iHOP, just Tyler's group. You can see how the idea to do so was inspired by iHOP beliefs, right? The prophecy genie is out of the bottle. And who knows what the fuck's going to happen now. Now, if there's an ounce, but everyone starts having prophecies about who they're going to end up with, of course they do. Prophecy Genie is out of the bottle. And who knows what the fuck's gonna happen now? Now, if there's an announcement, everyone starts having prophecies

about who they're gonna end up with, of course they do. The recipient of a prophecy will tell Tyler, other group members, but not the person that they're supposed to marry. Tyler will then pray about it and decide what to do next. I guess his new prophecy would like counteract their prophecy in some cases.

He liked to match up people who didn't like each other. He liked to be, I don't know, he thought they would focus more on God if he did that. I don't want God getting jealous over how much they loved each other. God needs to be first and foremost because I guess he's an insecure schoolgirl. One former member said that Deed and got involved in every relationship forced to break up. He felt couples were spiritually unready or idolize their partners over God This is so ridiculous

Flooding was punished by isolated member from the opposite sex for a week or more Tyler did not date anyone which made the women more attracted to him Only those in the inner circle knew about his true sexuality Bethany was one of the first to have a marriage prophecy It was about Tyler and then Tyler told a friend it will never happen Bethany was devastated, but refused to give up she knew that the devil was making Tyler and then Tyler told a friend it will never happen. That thing was devastated but refused to give up. She knew that the devil was making Tyler crave cock And she knew she could lure him back to the path of heaven with her magic Jesus pussy or something like that She came back to school and fall in 2008 and accepted that it may take longer to heal Tyler than she thought Didn't that sexy devil cock? She began thinking about attending nursing school instead of going with Tyler to I hop.

Tyler meanwhile, it started encouraging platonic affection among men, saying that society conditioned men to resist it. He said that male group members should hug, cuddle, and massage each other. Of course he did. To send a second other did's dick, but it's not a sin to snuggle up against that dick. That's brotherly love. Tyler, Tyler, sold people who were uncomfortable with all this that they had walls in their hearts

and that they weren't fully experiencing God's love. God fucking loves. Guys, they have cuddle fast, dip shits. Do you wanna be a little spoon? Or do you wanna be one of Satan's minions? Deaton encouraged two men to cuddle on the floor while other men would dog pile on top of them. Most of the men thought this was weird,

but not in a sexual way. Yeah, it is fucking weird. Tiders spent hours cuddling with group member Justin. Justin was not comfortable with this. What the fuck is happening here? Probably didn't like Tiders big spoon always, coming out of here with a boner. Deaton began reaching out to other gay Christians now.

He described his homosexuality as a hurt in his heart. One day he said he saw two black triangles appear on his palms with demonic signatures that were only visible to him. All right, he's sounding more and more mentally stable as we go. In November 2007 his group began praying over him and then these triangles that don't else could see also disappeared to him. And he thought that was proof of his deliverance. My God. And of course, things are getting this weird, right? These people think they can talk to God that they're got just more here preparing for

an apocalyptic battle of demons everywhere. Does anything really good come from constantly thinking thoughts like these towards the end of fall 2008, things change. Group members become confrontational, start speaking about the great tribulation with their classmates at Southwestern. At the end of November, Harrington contradicts Deaton during the car ride. That doesn't go well. Tyler gets so angry, he leaves the car, and then the driver tells Harrington the tire is

in a puzzle. He's the apostle of Southwestern, and you need to do whatever he tells you to. Yikes. Oh, and some group members participate in a comedy skit on campus. Deaton finds out. Tells them they've committed blasphemy and orders them to repent in the chapel. Yikes. When some group members participate in a comedy skit on campus, Deaton finds out, tells them they've committed blasphemy and orders them to repent in the chapel. Can you imagine if you're hearing about that in college, what gossip? Wait, Tyler did what?

He put them in time out in the chapel for new to comedy sketch. Are you serious? They listened. What are they in a cult? Yeah, the kind of our now. One day Tyler played Bethany, I want it all from high school musical three. She would be exlater Bethany, maybe inspired by that song sat down with him and told him how she felt about him. And Tyler said he was overwhelmed by the radiant purity of her love. Now Bethany began to lead back lean back towards I hop instead of nursing school. She thinks that her Jesus pussy might have enough magic in it after all. It won't. In November, Micah Moore claims that God spoke to him while he was praying in the shower now. I received news that there would soon be a tragedy at the school

and only true believers would have peace. Judays after Moore tells the group this four more members have confirming visions. Bo's, uh, herrington predicts that a tragedy will happen on December 4th or 5th. Well, it didn't, but I'm sorry, I actually did. It was, it's something that did happen. It did happen on the fourth. Sorry. December 3, there was a massive dark cloud over highway 29 border in the campus. And the group met with Deaton, talked about the cloud. Feel like God is about to cast judgment on Southwestern. And then the next day, December 4, a student has crossed into search of highway 29, hit by a car and killed. Rob Atkinson, who was a supporter of interfaith dialogues,

who the group was familiar with. Deedon was not a supporter of interfaith dialogues, and believed that this group were a harbinger of the anti-Christ. The group was convinced that this was God's wrath, and their prayers directly led to Atkinson's death. They were not horrified. They were, quote, gleeful. Yeah, they did it. Right?

These are people who cannot wait for Killer Christ to come down and start hacking the fuck out of everyone with a sword. So of course, they're excited to see this guy die. Atkinson just the first body to fall. Let there be so much more blood. Poor Atkinson seems like he was a better kid than Tyler and his cronies, right?

He was just trying to get people to talk to each other. Also, I'm not impressed by their prophecy, maybe he seemed to come true here, because we're not hearing about all the other prophecies that didn't come to pass. I'm sure there were so many. Following Atkinson's death, Tyler proposes a plan. After graduation, they should all travel to Egypt.

He'll pray to God there and God will unleash his fucking wrath on all and holy things. It'll be a large scale recreation of what just happened at Southwestern. I love that one person happens to get hit by a car and they're like, we did it. We did it. Now we got a fucking focus.

Go to Egypt and kill everyone. Members now believe it's their mission to follow Tyler. Well, the Egypt plan never comes to fruition. Not that anything would have happened if it did. I mean, these people are idiots. They're fucking Harry Potter nerds who think that their magicians mixed with Doomsday theology warriors. In early 2009, Tyler and Bethany moved to

Grandview for I have six month one thing internship program. This internship is designed to teach them to abandon themselves to Jesus and equip them for a life of prayer over the next two years. Other group members graduate and moved to Grandviewview Mike Moore doesn't arrive until the summer of 2011 Mike transferred schools at the end of 2008 Because he had a massive freak out. What are you freak out about? Well, he's convinced that a bunch of demons were attached to his head Not kidding He transferred from Southwest University to the University of Texas for that exact reason That's a fucking weird thing to believe to think think that, A, you have demons attached your head,

and B, the transfer into another school will get rid of them. Like, I doubt he told anyone of the University of Texas that that's why he was transferring. Well, I got to get away from Southwestern's campus. I mean, listen, when I originally applied to go there, I had no idea that they'd have so many demons waiting to attach themselves to my freaking head. How is anyone supposed to get a study and it done

with all the demons around? You ever tried to pass a calculus three final with six demons hanging off your noggin? It's impossible. Ha ha, you can't get a passing grade. All I wanna do is finish my studies in a campus, there's not plumful of freaking head demons. And also, maybe also studying in a campus

with less access to LSD. Doesn't work for me. I gotta tell you, it doesn't work for me at all. Actually, you probably can get way more drugs at the University of Texas than the Southwestern. Anyway, Micah's mother blames his prayer group for his breakdown. And I'm sure they didn't help.

But I feel like Micah was kind of fucked wherever he was gonna go. Right, whoever he hung out with, he just so fragile, so unstable. Tyler called Micah during his junior year and asked if he was truly happy down in Austin and then more transferred back to Southwestern for a senior year. Tyler, Dayton, other group members drove from IHOP to welcome him back to school a year later, more moved into the house with Tyler and the others in Grandview.

While at IHOP, Tyler had another revelation, of course he didn't. He had always thought that being gay was not a choice up until this revelation, but now he believed it was a choice. And he wrote an essay titled Good News and Why Homosexuality Is A Sin, An Answer That Makes It Conquerable and Non-Unique. Oh boy. He wrote, Oh, I can tell you, God's abhorrence is so painful to the homosexual that struggles because this is what homosexuals feel.

Why is my love condemned? Just because God says no without giving any explanation, why? This is so cruel, so senseless, so unfair. I can't even imagine liking heterosexuality. It's disgusting, even though I want to be like that so badly, but how can I change? What's even wrong with this God? Tata wrote that feeling hopeless about all of this. That is the sinful part,

but that the church didn't offer much help to homosexuals. When I heard someone callously say, why don't they just not be gay, rage would course to my being at the ignorance and insensitivity to the struggle that homosexuals try to endure, the intensity with which they always try to not be gay at least at first.

God, this fucking this poor dude clearly intellectually understands that he's born gay, but desperately trying so hard to reconcile that with a faith that tells him otherwise at this point. Well, after 10 years of praying for change, Tyler felt helpless, but then at 2 a.m., right, this one night he said he's wrestling with God, realized that he put his worth in how other men viewed him, which was idolatry, Romans 1, 24 through 37, suggested idolatry causes homosexuality. Therefore, God gave them over their sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity

for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served, created, served, created things rather than the creator, who is forever praised Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts, even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.

In the same way, the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed, with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts without a man, and received in themselves a due penalty for their error. Well, Tyler repented now for his idolatry and he felt joy surge through him. Doing some real convoluted mental gymnastics here to try and change something he knows he can't change.

A few weeks later, he sees Beth and he in the prayer room and feels affection for, saying, I was experiencing real passion, sexual knock me off my feet, pure and glorious attractions for the most beautiful woman alive. Does this seem like a bunch of bullshit that doesn't make any sense and that Tyler is for sure still gay because this is nonsense? It does, doesn't it? Tyler's delusion here helps lead directly to Bethany's suicide. He is not attracted to her. He is full of shit and he's playing a very

dangerous game. Tyler asked Bethany out this summer of 2009 after they finished their internships. He told her he was going to pursue her until they got married. Bethany was overjoyed because it's been her dream for years. She wanted to marry Tyler and have a son named Samuel. Later in the summer of 2009, more members moved to Grandview into the men and women's houses and they noticed that Tyler and Bethany's relationships seemed forced. Awkward. They do only one on a date every Thursday from six to nine and bake bread and Friday evenings.

Eat and discourage physical affection of any kind. Tyler and Bethany did not kiss until their engagement. Of course, he didn't because he is gay, right? He is not attracted to her. He wants dick and he's fucking up his life and hers by pretending he doesn't. In 2010, Tyler got the group together for a leader's conference where they all shared their vision of the future. Bethany seemed overwhelmed when it was her turn, said that sometimes all she wanted was to live with Tyler and have a baby. And he said in response to that that she was selfish and put her desires above the group and had Bethany apologize. How dare she really love someone?

I want a baby with him. Tyler became more controlling now with his group. He wrote up strict chore and worship schedules. He told people to reduce contact with their families. If it seemed like they didn't know a proof with a group, he's also going to IHOP KC prayer room, pretty often continually studying their beliefs inspired by Bickel's creation.

In early 2010, Tyler told the group that God wanted him to quit his job as a part-time math tutor now and devote himself to the ministry. They would have to pool their earnings together to make this happen. Many of the group members had dreams of working or attending grad school but Tyler preached in line with iHOP case he believes in line with the teachings beckled that the end times were near right and nothing was more important than worship. The group delivered pizzas sold things like makeup and paint to make ends meet. Bethany was one of the few exceptions because she entered an accelerated nursing program in 2011. Once a week they held accountability meetings in their houses about their sins.

If a man told the other man that he felt desire towards a woman, Tyler would embarrass them by telling the women. He did things like this on purpose to strain relationships, but forced communal activities. So weird all this and followed 2010 Tyler ordered Harrington to be shunned for eight months for judgmentalism, self isolation via creativity and unwillingness to reform. All right. Harrington was a more skeptical member of the group and suggested that Tyler was not cured of his homosexuality. So that's why Tyler's furious.

Harrington did not move out, but was ignored by the other members of the house. In May of 2011, IHOP leaders learned about this shunning and they were not happy about it. Didn't like how much control Titer was exerting over his group. The release of statement that said, Mr. Deaton has led his religious, oh wait, they later released a statement that said, Mr. Deaton led his religious group entirely independently from IHOP. And IHOP KC leaders spoke with Titer in the summer and Harrington was welcome back, Mr. Deaton led his religious group entirely independently from IHOP. And IHOP KC leaders spoke with Tyler in the summer and Harrington was welcome back though. Summer 2011, Tyler Deaton now began prepping the group for the end times. They stockpiled food, met with a man who claimed to be an ex-soldier. Oh my God, practice dodging bullets, wrestling and other combat moves.

Deaton said that if they moved to the Middle East, they could use this training to fight off Muslim extremists. All right, Harry Potter guy, calm down. So much wasted energy. These fuckers could have been preparing for the back three quarters of their lives, right? It could have been chasing real world dreams and given themselves a chance to build and financial security and maybe being able to retire one day. Instead they're thrown away futures.

They don't think they have to indulge in some fucking doomsday dystopian cosplay. At the end of summer 2011, Deaton knew that Micah Moore was coming to Grandview. So he rearranged roommates into the man's house, assigned a man named Evan to room with Micah. Evan was gay and Tyler promised him that he would liberate him. All right. Justin shared a room in the basement with Tyler. Tyler said that this was necessary because rooming with Justin would allow him to experience what it's like to be intimate with a guy in preparation for feed intimate with Bethany. That's okay. That's a new one. No, I'm not gay. Not sticking my weiner in his butt hole in a gay way. I am practicing. I am doing some butthole practice. So I will have my vagina thrusts mastered in time for my wedding night

obviously How am I supposed to make a nice Christian? Baby if I don't fucking guide his butthole first Come on One morning that summer the group was going on a hiking trip and herring to notice that title of tired That's why and title confessed that he had only had 20 minutes of sleep night before because he had been doing so much quote unquote therapy with Evan. He said they engaged.

I'm not making this up. Engaged in spiritual wrestling, which meant lying together in Bethnake and that led to massive healing for Evan and a breakthrough in his masculinity. Oh, God. What? Sotamy. I don't know. We weren't doing that. Listen, sometimes when you spiritually wrestle for Jesus, naked with another man, you end up getting rid of some of your sin by shooting it into his butthole or mouth. Da! Thanks, that even crazier,

with more arrived in the late summer 2011. Group now felt overpowered by the Holy Spirit. More often would convulse and shout during worship, people would scream and roll around the floor. And this went on in a lot of worship sessions presided over by Mike Bickle. Not necessarily the prayer room that I've seen, but in videos of just sermons,

where you have this Holy Spirit manifest inside of you. And I watched, yeah, numerous videos of IHOPKC members being, quote, taken by the Spirit, having the Holy Spirit manifest in them, they will twitch, kind of spasticly move around and ways reminiscent to me, like a zombie movie, or like the entity in the ring, the girl crawling out of the TV.

Well, thanks to one source I found, I also was able to watch videos of people specifically moving about in these exact same ways, exactly after practicing Kundalini yoga. And videos of other people twitching in the exact same way after practicing other Hindu rituals. Here is the problem with letting the feeling of something convince you that a particular theology is true.

There is evidence that people practicing variations of worship within multiple different faiths all achieve the same feelings of mystical euphoria slash ecstasy, music, breathing techniques, fasting, all this and more. You can have a lot more to do with the feeling than any sort of particular doctrine, right? And I mean, I don't know.

There's a lot of variables that I feel like just get ignored when people interpret these experiences as proof that their doctrine is valid. Tyler Deaton noticed that his buddy, Harrington was not twitching or convulsing during the group prayers as much as everyone else. And he said this was evidence of a hardened heart. Oh boy, this reminds me of an uncle of mine.

He was all in on this one church for years. He went to, but then stopped going because he was never taking with the spirit. Never twitch, never moan, never spoken tongues, and other members, because of that, questioned his faith. Harrington was punished to be a behavior modification now. They re-named him Bobby and confiscated his glasses.

What is happening with these weirdos? What would Jesus do? Well, he'd take your glasses and he'd change your name. What? They also forced Harrington to wear khakis polo's cargo shorts and shorts leave button down shirts instead of the sweaters and dress likes he preferred to punish him. Tyler also put this grown ass man in a timeout,

made him sit on the front porch of the house for long stretches of time. Herrington would eat his meals on the floor, wasn't allowed to speak. Fuck as he puttin' up with this shit. Tyler made Mike and Moore and three other men create the Bobby Discipline Team. I would, oh my god. If this nerd fucking would have, I would have fucking went off. What are you doing, dude?

I don't have to eat on the porch, fuck yourself. The discipline team has scored him everywhere He went and prevented him from talking to people then craze you're still one woman in the group testified that an attacking spirit Was near her and the group decided that Harrington was behind it Harrington now feared that the group was praying for God to destroy him He was excommunicated all together four months later Directly following all this silly bullshit in August of 2012, Tyler and Bethany get married. Bethany appears resolved and serene initially. They go on a three week honeymoon in Costa Rican where Tyler has a surprise that he has kept until the last minute.

He's kept this trip a surprise. And what a honeymoon it was. Tyler will later be interviewed again, for 48 hours on CBS and revealed that he and Bethany never had sex. Of course not, he's fucking gay. Tyler was not cured of his homosexuality like he tried to convince himself, right? Pussy repulsed him. Tyler told CBS that he had sex relationships

with men after his marriage and Bethany did not know about them. Tyler said that the lack of sex affected Bethany's self-esteem in a negative way. Yeah, of course it did. You selfish fuck. That'll lash out a Tyler. She would blame herself. Tyler said Bethany's personality blamed herself.

That's the way she works. She internalizes things. And she internalized this. And it was too freaking stupid and ignorant to recognize, and oh, excuse me, and I was too freaking stupid and ignorant to recognize what was going on. You recognize what was going on. You fucking dick.

You used her to be your beard. You were selfish. When Bethany came back from the honeymoon, she was confused and uneasy. She quickly moved into the basement of the men's house with Tyler, but then just two weeks later, already began spending most of her time in the women's house, including at night. She would tell the women, I just need a little space or, you know, I just feel too controlled. And she seemed very depressed. And of course, she is depressed, right? This guy, she has adored for years and now married still won't fuck her. No, she's never gonna have a son.

Yeah, man. Meanwhile, according to Deaton's roommates, he was pursuing sexual relationships with three men in the group at this time. Six weeks into the marriage, Bethany becomes extremely depressed. Tells her friends, if something doesn't change, I don't know what's gonna happen. According to Tyler, she got more and more depressed upset, started saying things like, my soul is ruined, I'm just gonna go to hell now, I'm going to hell. Bethany became more and more despondent. Tyler said that he had done everything he could do to show her that God loved her. Dude, you're supposed to fuck her

is what you're supposed to do as a husband. And the group should ignore her self-criticisms. This made Bethany feel more isolated. Bethany's friends now worry she's suicidal. Week before she dies, Tyler finds her with a cup of windshield wiper fluid. Takes a former calls of police. Bethany tells the respondent officer

it was easier to die than to change and she is hospitalized. She tells doctors that she needs to give it suicide because she's damned and cannot be saved. She's released anyway though on October 25th 2012. Tyler argued against her release said she was still suicidal. Nurse asked Bethany if she would attempt suicide and she responded, well, it could come to that. But still, she was discharged. Bethany's parents didn't know this was happening. They didn't know she was admitted to the hospital.

Tyler says he didn't tell them because she didn't want them to know, which probably is true. Tyler claims he didn't think Bethany was truly suicidal, thought it was all an act or is that just what he says now. October 29, 2012, Tyler holds a prayer session says the group has to choose between the community or their selfishness. Bethany appears upset by this sermon, feels it's directed at her. She sits on the floor, curls up into a ball, starts crying, tired of its angry, feels like he doesn't know what else to

do. Well, what you do is you would know the marriage you selfish prick. You've told her that you're fucking gay. The next day on the 30th, Bethany goes to work 12 hours later, she's found dead in the van. After Bethany's death, the group meets at the women's house and Tyler holds a service and mother fuckers seem extremely happy and relieved. In addition to being a closet homosexual and a deluded believer in magic and prophecies, he may also be a sociopath. Tyler told the group as some of you know already, I'm a man who is in love with ideas with crazy paradigms. And when they brought me Bethany's body, at first I cried, but then I laughed because I said to her, Bethany, if you could see you, he would not like the way you look right now.

What the fuck is he doing? And he says, and last night we had worship time together, very briefly as a group. And it was wonderful. And it just showed me the Lord's supremacy over this wretched thing we call death. And I thought to myself, what a crazy paradigm. And then I thought Bethany would love my paradigm because she loved me and was so fiercely supportive and believe me hundreds of times when I thought I was crazy or heretical.

After Bethany's death, IHOP officials called a meeting to break up Tyler's prayer group michael more was at the meeting i have told the group that they could uh... be a part of ihop or they could follow Tyler they blame to michael more and other group members for Bethany's death the meeting lasted all night at one point turned to an exorcism with more rising and screaming while ihop leaders commanded demons to leave his body

this is not good more than confesses to a bunch of crazy shit that ever happened regarding drug and Bethany and sexually assaulting her and killing her because he's severely, mentally ill. Dean later tells CBS that he thinks Moore's confession was part of a psychotic episode. Yeah. When asked if he thought his actions drove Bethany to kill herself, he said, I think that's probably a little too strong just because I think there's a lot of things that come together to produce that. But I do feel like I have real responsibility for what happened.

Beth needs to serve a straight husband, and she got a gay one, and she shouldn't have had to experience that. Well, I'm glad I can say that now. Excuse me. Too late for Bethany, obviously, but maybe his story can help others avoid the same fate. Since all this was made public, Tyler Dayton has kept a low profile and refused to speak publicly. He allegedly tried to contact former members, didn't receive a response.

Tyler's supposed to get a job teaching pre-calculus at a high school near Dallas, but when his students Googled him, found out who he was, he was placed on leave and ended up moving in with his parents. So much for the magical profit. And now let's reconnect with the overall IHOP KC timeline, which we're almost through. June 10, 2013, IHOP KC dedicates their all nations prayer room. The room is active 85 hours a week in nine languages, Spanish, Korean, Chinese, Russian, Arabic, Farsi, Portuguese, French, and German. That livestream started in December of 2013. June 18, 2016, I have KC partners with youth with the mission to help raise a million intercessors.

Build that army for Killer Christ. September 11, 2016, I have launches the Center for Biblical End Time studies, a three year program of 150 Bible chapters about the end times just gotta keep doubling down on doomsday All right, ruin more people's lives digging for that fools goal uh September 19 2019 iHOP case he celebrates their 20 year anniversary and the band keeps playing and praying and that takes us out of our timeline Good job soldier you made it back barely timeline. Before closing this bad boy out, time for a very important sponsor. Today's time talk is brought to you by Whipple!

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Hot-loose flavors, wipples of proud subsidiary of Bear Evil Incorporated. Okay, so, uh, now that's out of the way, whatever that was. Final verdict is IHOP, a cult. I would almost, I would, I would rather describe it as a cult incubator. Not obviously as culty as so many cults that we've, you know, covered. Not as blatantly cult-like aslike as say the Rajneeshis, the Antelope organ-based Colt. We look at a while back, but Colt tendencies, right? There's no big compound.

They don't worship their leader as a sort of living God, but, you know, Bickel does portray himself as a prophet of God who can share new messias from God, but also opens it up to other people being prophets. The prophet's stuff always kind of puts you standing at the door of cult dumb in my opinion. And while Mike may not be running a cult per se, might not be a cult leader.

Don't think he really is a cult leader with his leanings on end times, his leaning on modern prophecy. I just think he's created an atmosphere for cults to gestate, for people like Tyler Deaton to branch out an atmosphere for cults to gestate, for people like Tyler Deaton to branch out and create little cults. Again, it's like he has this cult incubator where people his organization can end up being treated like cult members by those who think that God has deemed them to lead the

charge into some final battle. Both Harrington, one of the guys in the cult within a cult, I shouldn't say within a cult because I don't think it's a cult, but The guy who was you know in that relationship with Tyler Deaton and that little group I wrote an article for the Atlantic in 2014 called the seven signs that you're in a cult And in this article He's sent a list of seven ways to recognize the difference between a religious community and a cult and who put that list together Mike Bickle So here's Mike Bickle's cult lists and we'll see how well his own group holds

up to this. Number one, opposing critical thinking. I find it interesting that he put that there because I do think I have KC for sure does that in my opinion. I mean, to think that God talked with Mike and people like Bob Jones and gave them the inside scoop on the end times, I do feel like that opposes critical thinking. However, when trying to define something as a cult, you could make that same argument against literally every religion. Two isolated members in penalizing them for leaving, well, according to numerous former members,

interns, IHOPU students and other staff, that they are isolated and penalized for leaving, but then there's so many other people to say that they're not. Emphasizing special doctrines outside scripture. I mean, yes, the prophetic history, the emphasis on prophecies is in many people's opinions, not just mine, people who actually are Christian leaders and theologians is outside of scripture.

I think it's funny that Mike would include that in this list. Number four, seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leaders. I mean, a common complaint about IHOP KC is that the focus is more on Mike being an important profit than it is on building an individual relationship with God. But again, other people say that's not the case. With Tyler, definitely turned in the cold direction with his little group.

Five, dishonoring the family unit. And this is a complaint from some, as we heard earlier, that the group encouraged you to distance yourself from people critical of IHOP case, these beliefs, but also Mike has said in many sermons that you should not do that. Number six, crossing biblical boundaries of behavior versus sexual purity and personal ownership.

A lot of talk about an unusual sexual energy around a lot of the worship sessions with the whole bridegroom focus, but no talk of anybody being fucked. Not it, Mike's behest or anybody directly underneath him. And the last one, Mike list number seven, separation from the church. This one's interesting to me as far as I have is concerned, right? They don't encourage members to separate from churches, but I don't know, in a way they like, can be seen as praying upon other churches members, right? They have relationships with numerous other

evangelical groups and then use those relationships to access people already theologically somewhat aligned with their belief system and get those people to volunteer their services, which can increase donation amounts, being sent into the group and get these people to also pay for training courses, et cetera. I don't know, it's sneaky that way. Yeah, again, I don't think IHOPKC is a traditional cult or the Bickels of cult leader, more like

a business that fosters cult-like thoughts, does use fear of end times to get people to spend their time and money with the group. I don't know. I just think that worst case Mike is in it for the money. And he's built himself a lucrative business based on stoking up fear around end times. Based on making people feel that they have an important role to plan an apocalyptic battle. I think best case Mike has deluded himself into thinking he is an important prophet and that the end times are coming up quick.

And he has a very important role to play in helping God and Killer Christ like win this war, this supposed to kick off any day now. To me that means he probably has a very big ego and all this battle prepping serves to continually stroke it, whether he's consciously even aware of that ego or not. Either way, the end result, like with, you know, actual cults, I do think it's negative more than positive, right? Anyone who sells their future short, who doesn't adequately prepare for their future because they have let Bickel's messages or someone else's messages similar to Bickel's convinced them that the end times are coming quick are being directly hurt, right? Deluge cult, deluge and harmful belief system either way, I don't know that it matters.

I just know that I don't like this. Mike might be a nice guy. I've heard he is actually, but that doesn't mean no matter what his intentions are, that he isn't doing more harm than good. I just don't like any organization that is actively rooting for a God to come down and butcher everyone who doesn't believe what they preach. To me, it's hard to make excuses for this, right? You can talk about how God will be super fair during the end times, give everyone a fair shake before running a magic sword through them. I still don't want to hear it. To me, it's an arrogant belief system to think that others have to believe what you do or be literally butchered for not doing so. And it also suggests this wanting the end times to come quick that the world is terrible and needs saving, that the world is disgusting

and needs cleansing. And I don't believe that. Right. That's a great way to rationalize, not giving a fuck about your life or the world you live in. To meet the world with all the problems we have is still more beautiful than terrible. And also better than it's ever been. A lot better than it was during World War II as we just went over. Better than it was during the bloody reign of the Romans, better than it was at any point in time prior to this century. The world is not filling up more and more with horror thanks to being riddled with demons, right? The world's getting better. So there's more demons now. Well, then maybe I don't know, the demons do it some good things because it's better than it used to be.

Better than it was during the crusades and the inquisition, and there was a lot more traditional worship than there is now. Things don't keep getting better in a completely linear fashion with each year being better than the last, but overall, the quality of life does keep increasing. And to pretend it does not,

is to close your eyes into night history. I don't know if demons are attacking the world right now or not and adding to the world's pain and trauma, but I do know that people like Mike Bickle are adding negativity, whether they intend to or not, by selling perpetual fear and impending doom and destruction. When they convince people like Tyler Deeden, that they can hear directly from God, that uh, you know, they're also not following God's path that they happen to be gay or acting on being gay.

Um, I don't know. At least they have good music. Best cold jams, I've heard so far. And they never stop playing a live, right? Let's fucking check it one more time. I am beyond impressed that this just does not stop. Here's what they're playing right at this minute. If I can hit the right button.

I will make room for you. All right, this is not the most bombastic moment of the song. But again, you gotta have loads and builds. You never stop. Every boy's I for it's better than mine. 4 a.m. You can put this up. Wow.

Uh, let's head over to today's top five take-offs. Time to suck. Top five take away. Number one, since September 19, 1999, IHOP KC has operated the 24-7 prayer room that you just heard some tunes from. They've been live streaming the prayer room since 2007 and they won't stop anytime soon. IHOP KC says they are committed to praying nonstop until the second coming of Christ.

Number two, IHOP KC founder Mike Bickle did not become Christian until he was 15. His football coach took him to a fellowship of Christian athletes, conference, where he heard Cowboys quarterback Roger Stopack, talk about Christianity. Mike decided then to convert and dedicate himself to Bible study. Number three, I have Casey is heavily focused on the end times. Mike Bickle and the I have congregation believed that their prayers will speed up the second

coming and they will serve in God's army during the seven years of battle between the great before the great tribulation. Bickle has been criticized for these teachings and for the result of these teachings being encouraging young people to not pursue their dreams because the end times are coming quick. A message that has been burning people for centuries. A message that thus far has helped absolutely no one. Number four, former IHOP intern Bethany Deaton died a suicide October 30th 2012, although not directly affiliated with IHOP. Bethany was part of an IHOP inspired cult led by her husband, Tyler. Bethany and other group members suffered years of psychological trauma at the hands of leader Tyler, who believed himself to be an important prophet. Bethany believed that she could cure Tyler

for homosexuality and suffered greatly when he was not a track tour. This combined with the abusive nature of Tyler's teachings and the spiritual control of his IHOP KC inspired many cult. combined with the abuse of nature of Tyler's teachings and the spiritual control of his IHOP KC inspired many cult led Bethany to become extremely depressed and feel hopeless. And number five, new info. IHOP got some got into some controversy during the 2006 presidential election for their endorsement of Ted Cruz. Bickle was criticized by the anti-deformation league for his controversial statements about Jewish people.

And then Ted Cruz was criticized for being endorsed by Mike Bickle. And in 2011, sermon Mike Bickle said that God would allow Jewish people to convert to Christianity and raise up the hunters against anyone who refused to convert. He called Hitler the most famous hunter in recent history. Yikes! Also 2005, Bickle said that before Jesus' second coming, a significant number of Jews will be in work camps, prison camps, or death camps.

That is a very poor choice of words, at the very least. My Bickel responded to criticism, essentially saying he was only referring to biblical interpretation and coming from a good place, wanting to save the souls of Jewish people rather than see them perish when God comes back for not believing in Christ. And that belief is what leads to so much unnecessary pain and problems that us non-believers need to be saved. And then the call to save us leads inevitably to see us as being in league with evil forces when we reject salvation, which then leads to harmful conspiracies filled with the Drenekrome and a secret cabal of Jewish illuminati, satanist types, QAnon, you know, rhetoric, etc.

And those kind of beliefs can lead to things like the fucking holocaust. So maybe just shut the fuck up about that mic and about the end times. Maybe just focus on telling your people to be kind, forgiving, loving, for them to lead the best, most fulfilling, loving, contributing to the betterment of society lives they can, that Jesus loves them and just kind of leave it at that. contributing to the betterment of society lives they can, that Jesus loves them and just kind of leave it at that. If only our species could do that, right? Then ironically, we would truly be Christ

like in the best of ways. To quote Ephesians 4-2, be completely humble and gentle, be patient, bearing with one another in love. As Dan Rhodes, a pastor from Mesquite Nevada, once wrote before he passed away in 2021, Christ humbled himself when he went to the cross to die for our sins.

He is a gentle with everyone. Excuse me, he is gentle with everyone who comes to him forgiving them. He deals with us patiently and loves us unconditionally. That sounds like a much nicer guy. Then Bickles, you know, warrior guy who wants to cut all of our fucking heads off. If we don't bend the knee to him,

wants the eye-hop prayer room, have powered him up enough to come down and, you know know fuck shit up and uh I think that's it. Time suck. Top 5 take away. All right the iHOP. Colt or Colt incubator has been sucked. We barely talked about pancakes and I apologize if it was tough to listen to a point. I had a tough time expressing thoughts and points because of the non-stop virus, shithole, I've been living in the past month. So I'm tired of talking about it. Hopefully next recording I'll finally be back at full strength, whatever that looks like. Thanks to Queen of Bad Magic, Lindsey Cummins, thanks to the Suck Ranger for directing and producing today, correcting some of my words. I like that a lot.

Thanks to BiddleLixer for upkeep on the time suck app, the art warlock, creating the merchant badmagicmerce.com, and for helping run our socials along with the suck ranger and a team managed by social media strategist Ryan Handelman. Thanks producer Olivia Lee for the initial research this week, great job, Olivia. And next week, we're going gonna return to some true crime. It's been about two months since we did a tale of a modern serial killer. So next week on time, so just endeavor the holidays,

another serial killer. Herbert Richard Balmeister. Herbert Balmeister, a man I talked about a while back on scared to death actually, born on April 7th, 1947, grew up in a normal family family had a fairly normal childhood. As an adolescent, herb was a weirdo. Excuse me, once put a dead crow on a teacher's desk, thought it would be funny. No one laughed. He was a bit of a loner, never dated anyone.

On high school, but then in college, he met his wife, Julie, the two would marry, have three kids, but the marriage, not romantic, because herb was not in two for giants. So here we go again. Julie often left him alone for long period of time and when she was gone, herb would secretly go to gay bars and downtown Indianapolis and hook up.

Also probably kill a bunch of people. Quince Denley men started to go missing whenever herb was in town. Herb almeister possibly got away with murder and a lot of it for over a decade. After all who would suspect him, Herbert was a businessman, husband all who would suspect him, Herbert was a business man. A husband, father, nice family guy, but then a 1994 man came forward to talk about a

night with Brian Smart, who lived in a large estate outside the city of Indy. He and Brian engaged in erotic constriction there and the man suspected that Brian had killed his friend, one of the missing men from Indy Napolis. Tony didn't see Brian again until a year later, and then turned his plate number into the police and learned that Brian was actually her baumeister. The police now attempted to interview her and search his property, but he and his wife refused, herb tonight everything, told his wife that a disgruntled employee was out to malign him with a seat of in-planet and she secretly knew he was gay anyway. So she now doubted everything the herb had ever told her, Lesson a year later, after they separated

and extreme financial trouble sent in, Julie allowed the police to search her property. And they would find over 5,000 bones on Fox Hollow Farm, the Boundmysher's property. But that wasn't all. Before police could interrogate her, based on the evidence they found on his property, he shot himself in the head.

He was then post-humously linked to over a dozen murders that occurred between 1980 and 1990. Victims were strangled and dumped along I-70, which runs from Indiana, Ohio, and some were dumped on his fucking property. So how did Herb hide all this from his family for so long? Who were the victims of the I-70 Strangler and the victims found on Fox Hollow Farm? Also, why did I cover Her her on scared to death? Perhaps because this former serial killer's burial ground is now reportedly haunted as fuck. We'll dig into all this and more next week on Time Suck and right now time for this week's Time Sucker updates. Start now for the message from a wonderful gentleman meet sack.

Ted Wagner guy met Louisville through our discord moderators. Ted writes in on the guy who gave you the challenge coin in the green room after the 730 Saturday show. I think somewhere between the excitement of meeting you after my very first comedy show in the beers I had, my last ability to create real sentences. That coin is from Marine Wing Support Squadron 471 Detachment A alpha. A is an alpha whose mission is just to provide any and all support to the flying units. I was at that unit when I was introduced to time stock by another Marine space lizard named Aussie Valensuela because of him sharing your podcast with me. I met

the woman I'm so crazy about Kelly back into his court and drove 12 hours to Louisville from Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. The comedy's got me through some of my roughest days. I can't thank you enough for that. And a big thanks to Lindsey Logan Tyler and everyone else behind the scenes, making it all come together. If you mention this on the show, could you give a shout out to Ozzy, Kelly, and the rest of the awesome meat sacks on Discord. Hail Nimrod, praise the Athena, scratch, bull, jangles, butt, and keep on sucking. Ted Wagger. Ted, Ted was so great to me You man. No, you you were just fine. You explained all that. I hope I didn't get you sick

I hope you don't have what I have now didn't realize I had to flew on hung out with you and everyone else knew it didn't feel good But I thought it was that stupid cold. I couldn't rip Thank you so much for the challenge coin. Thank you again for your service man that coin is a heavy one one of the heavy ones I've ever handled Thank you for making that long-ass drive although I'm sure making that drive had way more to do with seeing beautiful Kelly discord Becky than it did me and yeah shout out to Becky and the entire discord crew and thanks Aussie for turning your buddy on to the suck and finally yeah I hope that you and Kelly have a lot of wonderful times ahead. Hey, Lucifina.

Uh, now critique of the World War Two two partner from a Southern sack who is for sure racist, Taylor Dickinson, Taylor writes, Danny Boy, I actually don't think you have ever referred yourself as such, but it's a great song and who can hate it when Harry Connick Jr sings it in Memphis, Bell, a 1990 war movie about a B 17 crew. Speaking of World War II, I appreciate your attempt at attacking such a diverse and innumerable topic based subject. I'm going to be honest and say I'm still an hour or so away from finishing the war on the Pacific episode. I just wanted to pass along a little gripe that you should probably brush off and toss

in the trash folder. There's many times, but especially in this episode, the topic of racial discrimination is brought up and each time you provide voiceover for the historical figures involved, we could say, cliche, southern accents. topic of racial discrimination is brought up and each time you provide voiceover for the historical figures involved with cliche cliche Southern accents. I'll be it without consideration that the characters involved including Woodrow Wilson and the political figure from California are not native to Southern states. I always find it ironic that whenever people speak of such racial divisive issues, it is typically passed as a southern issue when it is far from a regional problem. Now, I'll be, I do comprehend the reason for such calamity. History just play a role in the development of the caricature, being an native of Texas, but residing in Oklahoma, unfortunately, you want to point this out. I just want us all to do better when it comes to all divisive issues that bigots reside in all places regions with all dialects, language, religions, or non-religions, and in all political

parties. That is very true. That is very true. Okay. Now for that complaint, I can't think enough of the podcast. I started listening to begin at the beginning of COVID and I've had enough long runs and road trips to have replayed all episodes and stay updated on most. Got me through the pandemic, a military deployment and more. Thanks for all you and your team have done. Keep on sucking with warm regards, Taylor. Taylor, I hear you, man, I really do. Here's the laser reason I use that voice. It's one of the very few funny voices that I've always been able to do to a job that seems to entertain people. And that's it, laziness. I am aware I do it with characters that are not from the south.

And your email is just a good reminder of me working on expanding my comedic characters and not just relying on that cliche. It is funny to do, I will keep doing it in many instances. I do like that voice. And to me, it's not even, I don't even think of Southern, it just reads as redneck. Like David Cross had this old bit

about how redneck's around the nation all speak in the same accent. Doesn't matter if you're Texas, Alabama or Idaho, sounds very similar. And I've known guys who have always lived in Idaho who have an accent very similar to the rural southern accent. And growing up, I started modeling that voice after them. So I don't mean to throw shade in the South,

but I definitely could work on expanding the types of voices that are exemplary of, you know, racial or racist traits. So thank you for your service as well. And thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, I hate what they're not doing. Now another World War II suck-related message from a fucking idiot named Holt Webb, who tried to cut his leg off and blame it on me.

Holt writes, World War II was a bitch, and so are you for making me laugh so hard. I snought on myself and almost buried my ax in my leg. Note to self, don't split wood when listening to the Space Lister King. I was listening to you you all split wood. It was the middle of devastation in Asia, World War Two, part two of your World War Two series, right after the attack on Pearl Harbor, leading into Roosevelt's famous speech, the drama, the buildup. I was tuned in. I was ready to hear

those iconic words that helped convince a nation to get behind a war effort. I set the log in the stump. I lit my axe over my head and began to swing. I could almost hear Roosevelt's own voice and then clown music. What the fuck? It was that unstoppable, unavoidable burst of laughter that makes you almost lose control over your body. It came out in a blast of snot and spit. It was very cold outside, making me mistolog and the stump and graze the cuff from my pants. I stopped partly in shock of what almost happened and partly because of how funny the situation was. I laughed about it all day. timing was perfect. You're the best day and I haven't missed an episode or a stand-up special and I spread the suck whenever I came. You're a great success story and a funny silly fellow and we still silly fellas need to know we're not alone.

I'm off to cut down that tree and you're not invited. Halt. I love it. I hope you cut down that tree and not off your leg. Thanks for sending this in. You made me laugh, feel good. You painted a great picture of your misfortune. Near misfortune, glad nothing actually happened. And you know what? It's always good to have a crazy laugh like that. As long as you don't, you know,

act yourself because of it. And now to end on absolute genius. This is one of the best meshes that I've read in a while. It's just this is so funny to me Gregory Buffkin figured out how to use Cummins law to his advantage an intentional Cummins law here Gregory writes Cummins law used for good greetings. Oh sucker who sucks so powerfully that he pulls that the pull affects the gravitational pull of the planets

Oh glorious and most fervent sucker I wanted to write to you and tell you that as with any law of nature, Cummins law, be harnessed for good. I apologize for the length of the email. I suffer from any undiagnosed medical, I suffer from an undiagnosed medical condition called a hyper explainitis. We live in the mountains of Western North Carolina. As with many places these days, finding a place to rent is very difficult. We bought our first home back in December, congrats. But needed to put a new roof on, so we ran out the top floor of our two-story home to get the money to do so.

We had eight interested parties the first day we advertised. One couple was in difficult circumstances and was about to be homeless. They didn't have enough money to pay the deposit and first months ran up front. And even though we had several families that had the money, I convinced my wife to let this family move in and break up the deposit over the first two months.

They're sweet man. I told her the people have helped us when we were down and I felt like we should help these folks if we could. So to move back in an early September. Within the first two weeks, the male tenant tried to fight me over a very small and insignificant matter. I didn't fight because I'm not a child. Over the next weeks, the relationship continued to deteriorate to the point that we explained we had no desire to interact at all with them. If they paid their rent on time, we didn't even have to speak. Well, everything came to a head October 30th. He got drunk and began intentionally stomping around upstairs, ranting and raving to himself about what a horrible white trash piece of crap I was and how stupid we were and how crappy our house was. Oh my God.

And you try to help this person. We finally had to call the police after he attempted to break down the door that separates the upstairs, the downstairs. So he could beat my worthless ass. Quote unquote. He was arrested for attempting to break it for attempted breaking and entering with intended terror rights. We have most of his rant recorded on video, but the police were on the phone with my wife and heard him beat it on the door and cussing at me for everything is worth so they didn't need

it. When we tried to evict them, the most unhelpful magistrate said he could not be evicted because he hadn't been convicted of anything yet since we hadn't been to court yet. Even though I played the recordings in court and the police statement attested to hearing everything. We later found out this guy has a long legal history of domestic violence, having been convicted in multiple states as well as the weapons charge and possession distribution of meth. Still, we haven't been able to who'd victim yet. When we would see them outside, he would do such passive aggressive things as spit in my direction to make the point that he didn't approve of my existence. But then one day, I decided to use that commons law to my benefit.

I like to work outside in the yard. He likes to sit in the deck and glare at me. So I began replaying old podcasts. I played the butcher or rostoff, Ed Kemper, Albert Fish amongst others, and I played them loudly. After hearing about Russians raping and murdering peanut butter, cats heads on a stick and oral sex with a decapitated head,

he no longer sits outside while I work. As a matter of fact, every time I come outside, he quickly goes inside. If I'm working in front of the house, they shut the door and close the curtains. The minute they see me, Cummins Law is a powerful force of nature. I want to encourage your listeners, if they have crappy neighbors, co-workers, et cetera, to know that they too can employ Cummins Law as a method of self-defense. co-workers, et cetera, to know that they too can employ Cummins Law as a method of self-defense. Love the podcast, we have five stars. Thanks for empowering me to protect myself, my family, have a happy Thanksgiving and keep on sucking.

Gregory, that is such a good message. What a powerful scene you paint there. Sorry, I have to deal with such ridiculous pieces. Shit, a walking pile of trash. You went out of your way to help. Some people, man. Yeah, sometimes you you went out of your way to help. Some people, man. Yeah, sometimes you have to out crazy people in this world. Play a serial killer podcast, real loud.

Nothing illegal about that. Nothing illegal either about buying a big ass knife and spending way too much time sharpening it. Well, staring at somebody. Nothing illegal about cleaning a shotgun. Way too much. While listening to say a YouTube video about someone going on a shotgun rampage. It does what it takes.

In a situation like this, so be it. I love seeing bullies get a taste of their own medicine. Seeing somebody try and make other people afraid get scared themselves. So bravo, hail Nimrod. What is big deal? Maybe they ever want to wrestle. They're getting more japples all rolled up. fuck that guy and thanks for sending in the message everybody Another bad magic production podcast is done. Please do not focus on bringing about the end times this week

If you think the world is that terrible maybe maybe talk to a therapist and say, instead of rooting for the return of Killer Christ, then just keep on sucking. Unmogic productions. Okay, I want to be the first person to air banjo on top of the IHOP KC prayer room. Light feet here. Feel it out. Break the bank, bank,, don't, don't This isn't a great air band deal song. Maybe I need to do a different technique. One of the things I like to play, play, play, play. Play, play, play, play, play. I think I think I'll take.

I think I'll take. I think I'll take. I think I'll take. Plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank, plank