Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 326 - Herb Baumeister: Serial Killing Leads to a Haunting?

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

Herb Baumeister was VERY likely the I-70 Strangler, killing a suspected nine boys and men between 1980 and 1990. And then, over the next six years, he seems to have killed at least another twenty-five men and boys and buried them on his Indianapolis area property. And now this property - Fox Hollow Farms - is reportedly VERY haunted. Today we explore what we know about Herb's life, go over the many suspected crimes, and how he was about to be arrested before he took his own life. And then, after our timeline, explore claims that his old Westfield, Indiana property is haunted. Bad Magic Productions Monthly Patreon Donation: We gave a total of $37,547 to the Bad Magic Giving Tree! Thank you for helping us make the holidays extra special for 53 families and 125 kids :) And we also were able to contribute another $1612 to our scholarship fund.Get tour tickets at dancummins.tv Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/VhVIzhiDJ_IMerch: https://www.badmagicmerch.comDiscord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard?  Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcastSign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits.

How well do you really know the people in your life? Do you think you know your spouse, so romantic partner, your parents, siblings, friends? We would like to think we know almost everything about our friends and loved ones, but everyone. No matter how transparent they may appear, they almost always seem to keep at least some part of themselves private. It might be something real trivial, real small. Maybe they spend a bit more shopping than they let on. Maybe while claiming to be on a diet, they cheat a bit more than let anyone know about.

Maybe they get little Botox and don't tell anyone or a little vitamin T testosterone if you don't know, but solely credit their workout habits for their muscle gains. Maybe they sneak in a little porn or a little more porn than they admit to or they have a pill habit that don't tell anyone about. Or maybe something a bit bigger, like an affair or numerous affairs or maybe they steal from work or shoplift when they're not at work Or they have a pill habit they don't tell anyone about. Or maybe something a bit bigger, like an affair.

Or numerous affairs. Or maybe they steal from work or shoplift when they're not at work or hide money from their spouse and some kind of secret account. Or perhaps it's a lot bigger. Maybe they are living an entirely separate life with an entirely separate family, lived out under a totally different name.

Or maybe they fucking kill people, a lot of people. Julie Baumeister thought she knew her husband Herb, at least that's what she claimed. You'd think she would, they were married almost 25 years. As far as Julie was concerned, Herb was a family man. A devoted father and a hard worker. Sure there were a few things that were off about him.

He had his quirks, maybe more than most. And their marriage had problems for sure more than most. But hey, herb was eccentric, always was. He'd exhibited strange behavior throughout his life. There was that time he thought it would be funny to put a dead crow on his teacher's desk, but no one else agreed. Part of a series of incidents that would cause herb school

to pressure his parents to have him evaluated by a psychiatrist, which they did. And then there was a time when herb would be committed to a psychiatric hospital for two months by his father early in his marriage, but would never tell Julie why. And the time where he likely urinated on his boss's desk. Perhaps the strangest incident of all Herb told Julie and the kids that some human bones, his son found in their yard, including a human skull with remains of a cadaver once used by his anesthesiologist father.

But then wouldn't tell them why he had just to, you know, apparently dump them out in the lawn under a tree. And there was Julie and Herb's sex life or lack of a sex life. They rarely had any romantic intimacy like she could count the number of times the two of them had sex on two hands barely needing the second hand during their almost 25 years of marriage. And Herb often stayed home alone for long periods of time while she and their children went on vacation. Looking back, there was actually a lot of red flags, something was off with her, Boundmeister. But Julie didn't want to see them.

How many of us are guilty of the exact same thing, overlooking what we don't want to accept, what we don't want to find out? The Spidal The Signs at Herbert was more than a little different. His wife Julie said that she was still extremely shocked and devastated when she learned her husband was suspected of the murders of several gay men in Indianapolis. How could the man she knew was a loving and gentle father possibly be a killer? Although never convicted of any murders, her boundmeister is suspected of killing over 30 boys and men. Human bones are still turning up on his former property today, over 25

years after his death. Herb is believed to be responsible not just for the piles and piles of bones found on his estate, but also for the strangulation of numerous additional men and boys found near interstate 70 between Indiana and Ohio. We'll never know for sure how many people Herb killed or why he killed his victims because he was never put on trial. Herb would end his own life before he could ever face justice. Who the hell was Herb killed or why he killed his victims because he was never put on trial. Herb would end his own life before he could ever face justice. Who the hell was Herb almeister? This week we'll discuss the life and suspected crimes of Herb. The bodies found on Fox Hollow Farm and in a little different twisted normal, we'll

look into some claims that all the murders Herb very likely committed at Fox Hollow Farm left his former property extremely haunted. Paranormal witness on sci-fi and ghost adventures on Discovery Plus, just a few of the shows that have sent teams of ghost hunters to investigate some supposed sightings of and encounters with some really disturbing entities. All this and more on today's blend of true crime and the supernatural addition of TimeSuck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to TimeSuck. You're listening to TimeSuck. Happy Monday, meat sack.

Welcome to the Cult of the Curious. Welcome back. On the end, come with the Suck Master, CDA Profit killer, Christ Squire, and you are listening to Time Suck. Hail Nimrod, hillu's tofina, praise good boy, Bojangles and help sing away these gray drary, Northwest winter days, triple him. Tape in this episode just before my Minneapolis stand-up special taping on December 10th. Thanks to everyone for quickly scooping up to just release tickets. Man, I am hoping I feel good about that recording by the time this episode drops. I wouldn't feel at least 90% recovered from the flu.

Feel an 85% back today. Sorry for my shitty voice last week. I'm hopeful it'll hold up today. Just added a couple things real quick, real quick actually, and we'll jump right in. Just added two shows to the Burn It All Down 2023 theater tour added second shows in Sacramento on February 10th and Philadelphia on March 25th. So fun, more meet and greet packages available now in those markets.

Tickets should be on sale by the time you hear this. You can go to Dancombs.tv for any and all tour tickets. No new merch for the rest of December trying to move what we already have because we have so much good stuff. Badmagicmerch.com if you haven't been there, or haven't been there recently. And now before we jump into today's story, just a quick update on our December charity,

which was the Badmagic Giving Tree so thankful. We were able to help a little over 50 families have a special holiday season. The Patreon donation towards the Giving Tree total $14,513, a bunch of you added another $10,000, $34, then Lindsay and I kicked in an extra $13,000 to make sure that 53 families of 125 total kids will have a magical holiday season. So thank you and hail fucking Nimrod.

Also able to donate another $1,612 to our Scholarships fund, which will be activated this next year. So good shit. Lot of good shit. And now let's get into the bad shit, of Herbert Balmeister, a lesser known, but possibly incredibly prolific American serial killer. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪

Herbert Richard Balmeister. Oh fuck yeah. Getting today's dick out of the way, right out of the gate. But today's episode. It was a businessman and suspected serial killer was supposed to say suspected because her died a suicide be for he was found guilty of any murders, but this motherfucker did it. He was for sure a serial killer. Get the fuck out of here. The only question is how many people he killed before he took himself out. At the time of his death, old Herbie Dickmeister

lived in Westfield, Indiana, an outer northern suburb of Indianapolis. All around 50,000 people live in the rapidly growing area. Now, only between three and four thousand lived there when Herb was burying bodies out in his large rural property, where his kids played. Herb was under investigation for the disappearances of numerous men in the early 90s when he died. Good portion of his victims were last seen at various gay bars. He frequented in downtown Indianapolis on the sly his double life. Most of the rest were sex workers. All were men and boys.

The police have now discovered the remains of at least 25 people on the bowel, myster property, Fox, Hall of Farm. Only eight have been positively identified so far. Been challenging to identify any of them. Herb certainly hasn't helped. On July 3rd, 1996, 49-year-old Herb Boundmeister took a lot of secrets to his grave when he shot himself in the head in Pinary Provincial Park Grand Bend, Ontario, and Canada after fleeing being investigated here in the States. Herb left behind a suicide note where he explained that he was ending his life because of his failed marriage and his failed business. Never confessed any of the murders.

Only after his death was her pretty positively linked to not just the victims whose bodies turned up on his property, but also a different series of murders that occurred along Interstate 70 in the 1980s and early 90s. From 1980 to 1991, the bodies of 12 men were found in Indiana and Western Ohio, victims dumped in rural areas. Most of them found naked or undressed to some degree and had been strangled.

All went missing from within a few blocks of an area frequented by a gaze in Indianapolis. Nine of these men thought to be connected to herp. One eyewitness identified herp by a Meister as the man who left a bar in 1983 with victim Michael Riley. Riley found strangled and unclothed, similar to many of the other suspected Dick Meister I 70 Strangler victims. Very suspiciously, these murders stopped within months, within weeks of her buying the sprawling 18 acre Foxellal Farm property in Westfield. Sure seems like as soon as

her had the space to start hiding bodies on his own property, instead of leaving them in various places off of the interstate, he did exactly that. So who was her boundmeister? To those he didn't, very likely murder. Courtney Hardwick from In magazine writes, his community her boundmeister was a straight-laced business-owning family man living on his 18-acre estate, Fox Hollow Farms, in Westfield, Indiana. He married his wife Julie right out of college and they had three kids together. But there was another side to him that he kept hidden. Boundmysed to what often visit gay bars in Indianapolis, about a 40 minute drive from where he lived.

His wife, Julie Boundmysed her would say that her was an upstanding citizen and a good father, although he was distant. And she is down playing how fucking weird he was when he says that. Julie said she didn't know that her was involved in the gay nightlife scene. Indianapolis Monthly wrote in their September 2002 edition, about Mr. Conte plates that maybe she was the first victim in her husband's sinister plan. Maybe he selected her as the perfect wife, a naive Indiana girl who still believed in the notion that you grow up, fall in love and live happily ever after.

She and the children were the model citizens. Herb needed to hide behind while living in secret life and committing what was nearly the perfect crime again and again and again. Julie certainly was naive as you will soon find out. If you want to get a feel for yourself or who Herb was, he randomly was interviewed by a local news crew from WishTV in Indianapolis in this updated clip, or I'm sorry, not updated, undated clip.

Taken some time during the last few years of Herb's life, he talks about a dead raccoon along the road near his home. Local residents were upset about the raccoon being painted over by a county paint truck, not moved aside like it should have been. Well, let's actually listen to Herb so we can hear this killer's voice. But right by striping, you know, whatever. Herb boundmaster of Carmel saw it all.

I said to my son, they're gonna hit that raccoon with a spray gun and sure enough, they just strived right over its face and neck. You know, it didn't even move, but you know, no effort to, you know, get it out of the way. I'm not gonna get it out of the way. So I have never pull a ride with me, so I took a shot of the thing. A raccoon, which medits demise on the yellow line,

became one with the paint. The raccoon has since been removed. This is all that's left. This was just, you know, a painter should have had a charclade drawn around his career by state officials. There was no excuse for that. I mean, the poor thing deserved to better fate than that. So I mean, he seems exceptionally normal to me here.

Pleasant even. Even knowing what I know about him and watching that clip, he seems so fucking likable. I confused my neighbor with his personality, he's displaying there, I'd like him. I think it was pretty funny. They took a pillow ride of that dead raccoon. I watched this clip over and over,

repeating the beginning, especially studying his eyes, his facial expressions, vocal inflections, just looking for some kind of moment of like, aha, right there. That's where the evil was. You can see it, ah, right there. That's where the evil was. You can see it. You can hear it. No, you can't. To me, nothing about him in this clip seems off for unusual. And by the time he recorded that clip, he likely had killed over two dozen men. That's

so fucking scary. Like, we really don't know who these monsters are. We want to tell ourselves that if we listen to enough podcasts or read enough books and watch enough documentaries about these motherfuckers that, you know, we can kind of like familiarize ourselves with a little red flags, little little ticks that would, you know, reveal their natures to us. But, you know, a quick glance with some of these bastards, there's just, there's just no warning signs. I don't think at all. After he died, another wish TV reporter spoke with Randy Hartley, a former coworker of Herbs from his days at the Bureau of Motor Vehicles,

one of the many people surprised, shocked, to find out he was a serial killer. Hartley felt like he was just a regular dude. Said he was the, he was just a major prankster. And with that in mind, he just, anything for a laugh. He would do, but on the other side, he was still pretty compassionate too.

He didn't wanna take him too far, or he didn't want to take things too far to extreme to hurt anybody. Again, just, it seemed like a fun dude to hang with. Alan Fishburn, another coworker, former coworker interviewed said, I was shocked because no one had heard for the past 15, 16 years. I found him, you know, as a spontaneous, doing any type of thing person within certain reasons. Even when the cops were looking into him for some murders right at the end of his life, no one in the general public outside of one guy who led the police to her

and a private investigator he spoke with seemed to think this guy had anything to do with these murders. Part of what helped him avoid public scrutiny was the fact that the killings he committed got almost no press. Because the murder victims were young gay men being killed in a conservative area in the 90s, they just didn't, I don't think, on some of them in the 80s, receive as much media attention or sympathy as, you know, say women would have likely received. Joseph Garenger writing for CrimeLibrary.com and a post titled Her Boundmistre Skeletons Beyond the Closet speaks to this saying,

During the first several years of the 1990s, the citizens in and around Indianapolis, Indiana might have stumbled on a very brief article in the local newspapers about how certain young men were disappearing from the streets of their town never to be seen again. In each case, the episodes mirrored each other, only the names changed. But the articles grew no larger nor attracted much attention. All the prodigal sons were gay or suspected of lenient in that sexual direction. Being gay, they were a coming and yet steadily outcast breed of citizens in a very conservative Bible belt. Even the officials remained lethargic.

Common belief was that the victims might simply have gone on to other larger more glitzy towns like San Francisco or New York where homosexuality was not considered wayward at all. The only victims here thought the police were the families these young men abandoned without a goodbye. The first person to suspect that the missing men were actually murdered was a private detective named Virgil Van Degryff. Virgil seems to have a long since retired now. He had a website all in investigations.com. That's no longer up and working. Great PI name, by the way, you kid me, Virgil Van De Griff. Name's Virgil Van De Griff. If someone who doesn't want to be found needs finding,

if there's a secret that needs to be told, darkness, you won't brought out into the light. Well, you have a name that needs a face. Well, friend, you've come to the right place. Virgil Van De Griff is all in. Virgil Van DeGryff is all in. Virgil was the first investigator to think Balmeister was a serial killer. He told Joseph Garenger, he fit all the components of a serial killer among them, the ability to keep his crimes in control and silent under an everyday nonchalance.

He was a business owner who store many towns people frequented. My own office was only a mile and a half away from his place. I never met him from what I understand. He wasn't the type of guy you'd at first suspect of being a sexual psychopath. The danger signals are always there in people of Balmyster's caliber. Trouble is, the public ignores them.

In Balmyster's case, even as wife ignored them. A lethargy. It's the serial killer's greatest strength. I like Virgil's last statement there, right? Lethargy, it's the serial killer's greatest strength. Man, how many people keep getting away with stuff like that because most of us don't want to take the time to really look into them, right?

Even when they do give us some red flags. Like let's say you don't have any concrete proof that your partner is a fucking serial killer, but you do have an inkling that something isn't right. That certain signs do seem to maybe point to them. Possibly being a killer, but also you love them and your life isn't a trying with them. Really fuck up your whole world if they truly were a serial killer, which doesn't give you a lot of incentive to put a

lot of work into looking into that. Because once you see it, you can't unsee it. But if you just don't look, then if they get caught later, you can kind of give yourself a pass morally and still feel or at least feign feeling being shocked. And you just say a coworker or a neighbor or something seems like they might be up to something so many of us are just so damn busy. Or at least we tell ourselves we're too busy to deal with it right are you really going to take the time to put in the work to see if they might truly be a serial killer. Or you're going to go back to watching your TV show or reading your book or working your second job raising your kids etc. Right, I don't really have much background, context other than what I've just said now.

I feel like I need to lay out before we get into the timeline. It was the 80s and early 90s. It was Indianapolis. Life was pretty normal, pretty good in India actually. Reggie Miller was lightened shit up from behind the three-point line for the Pacers and annoying the fuck out of most other NBA all-stars with its constant obnoxious trash talk by Love Reggie Miller was light and shit up from behind the three point line for the Pacers and annoying the fuck out of most other NBA all stars with its constant obnoxious trash talk by love Reggie Miller. The big circle center mall was being built downtown local radio station Bob and Tom were cementing themselves as one of America's most beloved morning shows soon to be syndicated around the nation. The Baltimore Colts had just moved to Indy and brought NFL life to Indiana and the feeling that Indianapolis was truly a major American city.

Hall of Fame running back. Eric Dickerson was one of the best backs of all time earning three of his probals, trips to the probals when he was in Indy. And of course the Indy 500 build was the greatest spectacle in racing was being held every year as it has been since 1911. Vroom vroom motherfucker.

After years of planning and construction, the 52 story bank one center opened in September of 1990, given the city a much bigger cosmopolitan feel. And 1990 Indianapolis hosted arguably the best concert lineup in America that year at the Hoosier Dome on April 7th, far made for guns and roses, Bonnie Ray, John Cougar, Melon camp, Garth Brooks, Alan Jackson, Elton John, Willie Nelson, Crosby Stills, Nash and Young, Bruce Hornesby, John Denver, and the list goes on and on. Life was good. The area was growing, the economy was booming.

The crimes of her Balmyster did not lead to the city or even any of its many neighborhoods into living in fear. His crimes were not even front page news until after he died. They had largely sadly gone unnoticed. But we're gonna notice them today. Let's uncover these crimes and the life of her bau maister in today's time-sack timeline before digging into the haunted legacy of Fox Hollow Farms after the timeline. All this right after today's mid-show sponsor break. I appreciate you listening to those sponsored deals, Meatzacks. And now it's truly time suck time. Shrap on those boots, soldier.

We're marching down a time suck timeline. Quick note on today's info. It's garbage. You probably shouldn't listen to this podcast because you're not going to be able to rely on anything I fucking sell you. No, that's garbage. You probably shouldn't listen to this podcast because you're not gonna be able to rely on anything I fuck and sell you. No, that's not true. No, dates from one source to the next

are varying consistent with old dirty, dick-meistered, dirty deeds. We went with the dates that were the most consistent across numerous sources, or the most recent. Some of the information regarding his victims also vary quite a bit, especially since he was never tried. In court, again, we went with the info that's seen the most reliable and consistent

for the body count totals. You'll notice that the totals I give will differ from most sources on the internet. Well, they're different because there's been a string of new local news articles and local news reports coming out of Indianapolis just this past week when still more remains were uncovered on his old property. And the very recently updated totals they presented

seem like the most accurate information to me And that's what I'm that's what I'll be sharing with you. So here we go Herbert Richard Baumeister born April 7th 1947 all the sources seem to agree on that According to Garenjers article Herbert was born in the Butler Tarkington neighborhood of Indianapolis Indianapolis has a million different neighborhoods all these names neighborhoods The neighborhood's name comes from a combination of Butler from Butler University, which has its campus in the neighborhood. And from the name of the famous writer Booth Tarkeington, who lived in the neighborhood for 23 years in his country estate until his death in

1946. I'd actually never heard of Booth Tarkeington, but he is one of the only four novelists to win the Pulitzer Prize for fiction more than once, along with William Fockner, John Uptike, and Colson Whitehead. I've heard of at least two of those guys. He was best known for the magnificent Ambersons and Alice Adams. Didn't read him. His remains now rest in the pretty bad ass look in Tarquinton, Jameson Mazaliam at Crown Hill Cemetery in Indianapolis. This neighborhood began as a farming settlement in the 1840s near what is now the intersection of 38th Street and Illinois Street called Mapleton connected to Indy via a railway system in the 1860s.

Used to be a fucking shit ton of maple trees in the area. When her was born there, the neighborhood was very upper middle class, some wealthy. People living there was well very nice neighborhood. It still seems very nice. At some point in Herbert's childhood, the Balmiser family eventually moved to Washington Township, one of nine townships of Marion County, Indiana, located entirely within the boundaries of Indianapolis, comprising a good chunk of the northern central area of the city. The popular broad ripple area of the city

is located within it. Used to be a comedy club there, called Crackers that I played so many times. Fun area, a lot of good memories from Brad Ripple, especially since Herb never even killed me one time there. That helped me have a good time for sure. He was dead by the time I went there. Not far from Butler University,

just a little north of the Butler talking to neighborhoods, so the family didn't move far and always lived in a nice area when Herbert was growing up. Herb's parents were Dr. Herbert E.mister and Elizabeth Balmister. Herbert Sr. was, I guess he wasn't really, I mean, calling him Sr. for different initiation, but they had different middle names. He was an anesthesiologist who graduated with his undergraduate degree from Val Parazo University, Valpo, baby.

In Northwest Indiana near Chicago, and then in 1950, graduated from the Indiana University School of Medicine, which is in downtown Indianapolis, which is how the Boundmeisters ended up where her grew up. As Mama Elizabeth will be a stay at home mom and really focused on making sure she raised a prolific, nearly undetectable serial killer. Her other kids wouldn't take to her lessons, but her what's a good student paid attention. I don't know anything about Elizabeth. Elizabeth sources are pretty quiet about who she was Extending to schooling herb senior would serve in the army during World War two

No idea what he did in the service after finishing medical school herb senior worked as an anesthesiologist at Winona Memorial Hospital from 1965 to 1985 That hospital was demolished in 2011 after sitting vacant since 2004 Herb senior also worked at Methodist Hospital just outside of downtown Indy from 1957 to 1968. Dude made real good money. Today the average NSC theologist in the US makes between 310,000 and 520,000 a year. On average, average in the 400K range. The Balmyster family grew up upper middle class, if not outright rich. Herb was the oldest of four kids, his sister Barbara, born in 1948, younger brother Brad, born in 1954, and another brother Richard, another dick, born in 1956. Quite a bit of dick. And they're suck today. It's very

dick heavy suck, which is great because you can never have enough dick. Herb's wife Julie later told people magazine that herb grew up in a beaver cleaver kind of home in Indianapolis. Herb was a normal child, but he did begin showing signs of some anti-social behavior by his adolescents. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of concrete examples of this anti-social behavior. I'll go over some in a bit, but mostly it's just sources

describing young Herb as weird, strange, eccentric, you know, anti-social, loner, not popular, et cetera. Dick Meister was always it seems a bit different. He also have no details from his time in grade school or junior high, his family pretty tight-lipped about his life after he shot himself in the head. Following the police, beginning to look into arresting him for being a serial killer.

And then because he was never formally charged, never proven in court to have been a serial killer, no one close to him seemed real interested. In speaking to journalists in regards to a book or an article about him, you know, being a killer, living in a secret life, which I get. 1961 Herbert attended high school at North Central High in Washington Township, North of Broadriple. It's pretty new school at that time. It opened in 1953. Herbert, I do wonder if he went by Herbert. I've never met a Herbert. I've met some people who call themselves Herbert,

but not Herbert, participated in the biology, geology, government, international relations, and chess clubs. And he also, like most kids, said some weird shit. Maybe we're to the average since he was blatantly mentally ill, as I'll go over soon. Herb's friend recalled that he used to quote, ponder what it would be like to taste human urine, drinking that hot fresh apple cider. It's the main thing an old friend remembered about him. I wonder

if he pondered about that a lot, right? Like a defining aspect of his personality. It's going on, herb. Oh, just pondering. What's your pondering about? Pondering about what p-tastes like. Again, I just can't stop pondering on it. Is it bitter? Sweet? Sour? It's almost all I think about.

What does p-tastes like? Does it differ from person to person day to day, meal to meal? Does lady pits taste different than boy pits? Does black pits taste different than white piss? So much piss, so little time. Also in high school, it seems that Herb found a dead crow on the road one day and put it on his teacher's desk when she wasn't looking.

And instead of everyone laughing, it's such a funny joke. Everyone was disturbed. More of a dude, what the fuck? Kind of reaction as opposed to, ah, good one Herb, you really got her. Sometime around this incident, Herb's father took him in for some psychological testing. Apparently this was not an isolated incident.

And he wasn't just acting up at school, he was acting up at home. Herb senior had his son examined because he was quote, irresponsible and often combative. Herb was diagnosed with schizophrenia with possibly more than one personality. And that is not a light mental illness diagnosis. The bummer known in this family was really willing to talk about what the fuck herb was up to as a kid because I feel like there was a,

a lot of juicy stories. I would be shocked if there were not family tales about him, you know, torturing pets or I don't know, molesting a neighbor kid like serious shit. There was no further documentation of his mental health struggles while growing up outside of this, not until we get to Young Adulthood. Herb's friend Bill Donovan recalled that Herb didn't fit in during high school, partially because he preferred books to sports. Quote, he just didn't blend in. He wasn't a basketball obsessed, Hoosier. Donovan also said that Herb didn't date anyone. This is probably because he was a closeted homosexual. and that is for sure

gonna fuck up your dating life a bit in a conservative city in the early 1960s. Also maybe he was still piss obsessed. Maybe that maybe that added to his dating woes. Hey Susie, want to grab a mall after school on Friday? Oh sure Herbert, that'd be swell. And then maybe we can go catch a movie. I'd love to Herbert and then maybe we could drive to that spot in Broadriple, where people park their cars and, yeah, Herbert? Well, I'm embarrassed to ask. Herbert, I'd love to park and make out with you. That's what you're asking.

Oh, great, Susie. That's just grand. Well, that's not really what I was hoping for. I was hoping we could piss each other's mouths and talk about what it tastes like. And then you could put on strap-on and peg me and pretend to be biff in the football team. I don't know. 1965, after graduating high school, Herb studied at Indiana University for one semester in Bloomington, little over an hour, little over an hour's drive from where he went to high school.

Herb chose anatomy as his major at Indiana University. Some sources say he was pressured by his father to do so, to follow him into the medical field, but that young Herbert didn't want to. From 1965 to 1970, he attended the school sporadically, sometimes for a full academic year, just a semester, sometimes it'll take an entire year off, and again, I feel like there's a lot of stories from this time in his life that no one talked about. From 1966 to 1967, while taking some time away from school, Herbert worked as a copy clerk in classified advertising at the Indianapolis Star and Indianapolis News. Adding evidence to claims that Herbert was eccentric, Herbert co-workers there, one of

his co-workers there, Gary Donna, former ad rep for the Indianapolis Star, recalled a time when they were planning to go to a football scrimmage at Indian University, and Herbert offered to drive everyone in his hearse. It seems like the kind of thing that someone legitimately cool, but eccentric could pull off as a joke, or something that someone genuinely creepy would do. Donna said Herb was eager to please but eccentric. He told People Magazine, I remember friends saying, what's the deal with this guy? And I just said, well, Herb's just Herb.

I don't think he was creepy. I remember friends saying, what's a deal with this guy? And I just said, well, herbs just herb. Don't think he was creepy. If they're asking what his deal was, and he had to say, well, herbs just herb. Gary Donner also thought that herb was sensitive about the way his superior has viewed him. And allegedly, herb got the job at the paper because his dad was well respected in the community

and pulled some strings. And it bothered him to have other things that he was only working there because his dad, he got in the job. Also, Gary Donah. That's an odd name, right? I mean, male first name, female first name for last name. You just don't come across a lot of Gary Donahs

or like Larry Michelle's or Roger Janet's, very often. In 1968 at IU, her met his future wife, Juliana Julie Sator, through a mutual friend. They were attracted to each other because they both shared the same conservative values. Or at least Julie did genuinely, and her pretended to. Julie said they met in 1968 at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California, where IU was playing that year. Julie said about meeting her.

He was nice, fun to be with, and good-looking. We both liked cars, and we were both young Republicans. Julie said in her interview with A&E investigative reports that she and Herb never, ever engaged in any of the drug use in the 1960s. She and Herb spent their time driving around, maybe getting a coke here or there. Well, what a couple of fucking duds. Best time to do drugs in American history. These two are occasionally having a soda. Oh, living on the edge. I bet sometimes they even had milkshakes like on Friday nights, you know, when they, when they, you know, could risk all that extra sugar or not worry about it affecting, you know, classes the next day. I also like that she said they liked cars, not sports cars, not antique cars,

expensive cars, European cars, just cars. I know I'm nitpicking here. And you probably would be just speaking quickly. But adding that to the occasionally driving around and getting a soda, they just seem so fucking boring. Highly doubt he was driving around in that hearse, I feel like she would have mentioned that. I've seen the interviews with Julie and combined with what I've learned about her in various

articles as well, she does seem like the perfect wife for a serial killer. She just seems like this incredibly subservient, uh, steppered wife, kind of personality. Yeah? Julie, it's 7 a.m. where's my coffee? Oh, sorry dear, uh, coming right away dear, we're out of beans and I had to run down to the pantry. I won't let it happen again. And my eggs, Julie, over medium, these yolks are hard.

Oh goodness, Herbert, you poor thing, I'll make you two new eggs at once. I must have gotten distracted because of the coffee beans. It's quite alright, yeah. No, it's not, but I'll make it alright Herbert. What a terrible start you damn giving you. Julie said about the relationship, I think we had very family oriented values. You know, we didn't have candlelight dinners and we didn't run off on romantic weekends together. We were much more about family love. Sure Herbert never brought flowers home for me or or ever told me I was pretty

or ever passionately kissed me or pulled my hair back and fucked me till my thighs quiff it. We didn't have that kind of love, we had a better kind. The kind we both enjoyed sitting in the same room and watching the price of right together and sleeping in separate rooms later. On November 1971, 24-year-old herb-buymeister married Julie Sater.

Julie was also likely 24. Can't find a birth date for her, but in an Indianapolis newspaper article from 1996, she's listed as being 49 years old four months after herb died when he was 49 years old. These two would go on to have three children together. Their daughter Marie H.A. Mary born in 1979. Their son Eric born in 1981. And their daughter Emily born in 1984. And it is a fucking miracle that they had three kids. This blows me away. Julie would say later that in 25, just like weeks away from 25 years of marriage that she and herb had sex exactly

six times total less than once every two years that is insane if true and i don't know why would you like why she would lie about that her bird hot damn was he a shooter fox's wife six times has three kids man couple of fertile murals, dude had a baby cannon for a dick.

Also feels like Julie is a settler, right? Really settling here. Can you imagine being cool marrying someone so not into you sexually that they only fuck you six times in 25 years? And they got married young. They should've fucked more than six times on honeymoon. Doesn't seem like Julie said her sights really high for what she wanted in life. Passionate love. No, not for me.

I'll take a guy who wants to sometimes drink a soda and almost never fuck me. As long as my parents approve and he has a good steady job, huh? Who cares? Living the dream. Living a sad sleepwalking through life existing instead of living dream. On their book about Bob Meister, where the bodies are buried, authors Fanny Weinstein and Melinda Wilson wrote that Julie also literally never saw Herb naked, like not one time ever during their entire marriage. That's so weird to me. They got married in 1971, not fucking 1671. Julie said Herb dressed in the bathroom

and when it came time to go to bed, he would always put on pajamas before slipping between the sheets. Dear God, I do not understand her. Neither does I lose a fena. I mean, I understand him. Herb is a gay sociopath who wanted the beard to look straight to make mommy and daddy happy and he found one, but her, how fucking sad?

I don't know, maybe she was also gay and he was Herbert beard. It's possible that they were both repressing their true sexual natures, and their relationship was convenient in a scam and, you know, kind of from both sides. Julie told People magazine that she and her didn't have many friends and showered their attention on their children.

I still can't believe they had three kids with such a little fucking. Makes no sense to me. Julie said that her was a dedicated father, was involved in their children's lives. He chose their preschool. I helped buy gifts for them and helped make their lunches. She said, we did everything together.

He would push the mower and I would trim the bushes. Mostly I would trim my own bush. And did a little course. God knows Herbert wasn't going to touch it. He hated Puss. He could only get hard enough to put her to my pussy if I spoke in a deep voice and begged him to fuck my man butt. I may have had it that last part. In early 1972, Herb now attends Butler University for one semester. I spoke in a deep voice and begged him to fuck my man butt. I may have had it that last part. In early 1972, Herb now attends Butler University for one semester.

Herb's a bureau of motor vehicles application. Later we'll state that he graduated from Butler with a degree in zoology. Why zoology sources do not say he would never end up working with animals, so much mystery with Dick Meister. And he also lied about graduating. He never graduated, never had a degree. Late 1972, Herb gets a job as a temporary clerk typist at the Bureau of Motor Vehicles.

He'll work there for the next 13 years. Eventually, we'll earn up to $30,472 a year as a program director of their cash and audit department. In 1985, when he's making over $30,000 a year, that would equate to around $80,000 a year today. Well, Herb was working there in the 1970s. Julie is working as a high school English teacher. Julie, like, or excuse me, just like with the newspaper, it seems like Herb was hired at the Bureau of Motor Vehicles thanks to his father.

It doesn't like Herb was a fucking mess who was unable to get a job on his own. A sundae right around getting this job just weeks or months into his marriage, her who was a mess, became very depressed and then in 1972, either shortly before or after he got this job, I'm guessing maybe in between graduating from, well, not graduating. In between being done with Butler and getting his job, Herb's father had him involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital for 60 days. Julie said that she was in

favor of this, but she will later say that she didn't know exactly why he was put in or what he worked on while he was committed. She later just said that her was hurting and needing help. So why was he hurting? Because he knew he was gay and had just gotten married to a woman. Timing seems to indicate that may have been a possibility. Herb was diagnosed this time with obsessive compulsive personality disorder instead of schizophrenia. Julie knew he was hospitalized, obviously, but wouldn't learn about his actual diagnosis until after his death. After this hospitalization, there's no talk of him getting any therapy, so I doubt he

dealt with his shit like he should have. Just pushed whatever he was struggling with down, down, down, and then later, sometimes that shit would come up, up, up, up, and maybe someone would die. By the late 70s, Julie quits her job as a high school English teacher to focus on building her family after the birth of their first child, daughter Mary in 1979. From the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, we get a few more insights into Herb's inconsistent personality. Susan Pierce, Herb subordinate there, said he was an excellent boss, but meticulous. According to Weinstein and Wilson's book, other people Herb worked with, did not think he was excellent,

but rather unstable. The author said he often began ranting and raving. It fell in employees for no apparent reason. Yeah, because he's fucking mentally ill. Some of Herb's co-workers also said that he was a perfectionist, given to sudden, unprovoked rages. The way Herb is described varies a lot from person to person. Many people knew him as a business owner and devoted family man, but the police say that

he was hot-headed, a boaster who was always trying to impress others. Some described him as eccentric. Others said he was quiet and kept himself. Still others described him as gregarious, a kind, very social person who went out of his way to help others. The Indianapolis star wrote, even when he died, Boundmeister's life was one of opposites. He lived on an expensive piece of property in Westfield. Oh, yeah, they said in that interview, they said, Carmel, is where he lived, the local news reported their head wrong. He was not in Carmel. He was in Westfield, which is close. But anyway, even when he died,

Boundmysre's life was one of opposites. You know, he lived on an expensive piece of property in Westfield and sent his three children to private schools. But he also ran a thrift store business that was in financial trouble and recently filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Hamilton County Sheriff's Sergeant, Ken Wiseman,

told Indianapolis Star one person was sporadic, hotheaded, and would go off for no apparent reason on tangents. He would try to impress people, wanted to make them think he was more important than he was, even when his business was going downhill. The other Mr. Balmeister was the family man who wanted to supply the best for his family that he possibly could.

Some people describe her as dressing simply, said he didn't talk about his family much, other said he wore $300 shoes, was doping to his family, and meticulous about his appearance. His dude was all over the fucking place. Not really surprised though, right? Again, he struggled with serious mental health problems.

And on top of that, lived an extreme double life for most of his adult life. While a lot of people describe her but it's quite professional, this is also the guy who once sent Christmas cards of himself at another man dressed in drag as a joke that apparently his coworkers-workers did not understand or find funny.

I have to wonder if he was also bipolar. And as I mentioned up top, he once pissed on his boss's desk. That's pretty extreme. Weinstein and Wilson wrote, it was no secret around the office who the culprit was. Still, her somehow managed to avoid being fired until he urinated on a letter addressed to the governor of Indiana. And you know what? That track is actually the kid who pondered a lot about piss tasted how pissed tasted right now pisses on a boss's desk and then pisses on a letter to the governor. Herb was all over the place except when it came to piss. He was consistently deviant

where piss was concerned. Also, he got fired in 1985 the year following the birth of his first excuse me, third child. His wife has not worked for years at this point. Uh, he's the breadwinner. He makes a solid living, but he's not making crazy money. And let's say I'd outside of help. No way they're saving all kinds of money.

And I'm guessing pretty dependent on herpes paychecks to pay the bills every month. And then this dude goes and gets fired for pissing on a letter to the governor after pissing on his boss's desk. That's fucking reckless and beyond embarrassing. There's no way he told his wife why he really got fired. Was there? How was your day, honey? Not great, Jules.

My boss, man, did he completely overreact? Oh, no, dear. I'm so sorry. What happened? Oh, well, he walked in on me, pissing on a letter to the governor and because someone pissed on his desk recently. He's very sensitive to piss, and totally fired me. Oh, this terrible deer.

Oh, well, I don't wanna worry about a place where they're so repressive about piss anyway. I bet no one there, even ever ponders, about what piss tastes like. They're so anti-euran. After Herb was fired from the Bureau, he got a job at a thrift store, which will soon inspire him to start

his own thrift store business. And that seems like a super random turn of events, right? B-M-V to thrift shop clerk. I know that thrift stores don't pay much now. How do the father of three pay the family's bills on thrift store money? I feel like after going over these notes several times before recording this and reading and watching everything I could find on this dip shit, trying to understand his life,

makes sense of a lot of inconsistent sources. I feel like his dad probably was supplementing his income for a long time, for most of his life Some kind of outside assistance feels like it went on and again I feel like the family has so many stories they haven't shared about this guy As wife Julie was a member of the Indianapolis junior league when he starts working in thrift store and taught dreams of owning a thrift For business the Indianapolis junior league described on their website now as an organization of women committed to promoting volunteerism NAPLIS Junior League described on their website now as an organization of women committed to promoting volunteerism, developing the potential of women, and improving the community through the

effective action and leadership of trained volunteers who purpose is exclusively educational and charitable. And she bought into Herb's thrift store dream and thought it would be a great way they could help contribute to the Indianapolis Children's Bureau. That organization recently changed their name to Firefly Children and Family Alliance in Indie, according to their website, Firefly's programs, focused on child abuse prevention, family preservation and re-unification, youth placement and recovery services. So it sounds like they're wonderful people

doing great shit around this time. And they were. Herb was also very, very likely a monster at this time starting to do horrible shit as well. Actually, he may have been doing monster shit for about five years by this point. Let's back up a bit. In the early 80s, men started turning up dead along I-70

between Indiana and Ohio. Men a lot of investigators now feel confident that her bowel moisture was murdering. A task force would eventually be assembled to solve these murders and they would dub the killer of the I-70 strangler. After her died, looking into his credit card transactions and travel history corroborated by Julie and others, all of his travels will match perfectly with the following murders. On June 16, 1980, less than a year

after the birth of Herb's first child, 15-year-old Michael P.T. was found naked in a rural area of Hamilton County, Indiana. Michael was a sex worker, spent a lot of time at gay bars and downtown Indianapolis. Bars that herb investigators would also later uncover also spent a lot of time in Michael's cause of death was undetermined and while the corner would rule out strangulation, some think the corner got it wrong Michael went missing on June 7th on June 10th. He would be seen in a parked car with a man on market street at college Avenue June 11th was seen at the Monument Circle and Indianapolis, and then his death would barely make the news.

Two months later, August 8th, 1981, 25-year-old Gary D. Davis found dead in his home in Meridon Woods, or excuse me, Meridian Woods. Gary had definitely been strangled, also found naked, and he'd been tied up. Surely before he was killed, or shortly before he was killed, Gary told someone who's going to the airport to pick up a friend that he'd recently had an argument with. Following summer, June 1st, 1982, 27-year-old Dennis A. Brodge was found dead in a ditch in the 9400 block of River Road in Marion County. Last thing getting into a car in front of the downtown library, which was a known pickup spot for sex workers at that time. Cause of death undetermined was found naked. An unidentified man was found in the following

months July 20th, 1982 in Dark County, Ohio. He was estimated to be between 20 and 30 years old. His cause of death unknown at the time. The article that references his death gave almost no details. 22 year old Maurice Taylor found dead the very next day, July 21, 1982, and Weasel Creek back in Weasel Creek, what a great creek name. In Hamilton County, Indiana, school fishing in Weasel Creek. Maurice was found in six inches of water. He was missing a shirt, corner, suspected he was strangled, but couldn't declare an official cause of death.

Maurice was homeless, left in the boiler room of an apartment building in Indy. The building manager said Maurice was a little weak in the mind. We let him stay here because the owner didn't want him to freeze. He lived here for two years if you can call that living. And poor bastard. Maine has tried to give him a job removing roofing shingles, but they had to constantly monitor him because he would tear the wooden nails off of the roof. Maurice visited his mom on Sundays who lived with the one named Jane Wall.

Jane once tried to give him Maurice slippers and sneakers. He only took the slippers, told her to return the sneakers and with the one named Jane Wall. Jane once tried to get Marie slippers and sneakers. He only took the slippers, told her to return the sneakers and give the money to his mom. Marie was friendly, never made trouble. You'd leave her days at a time, but he always came back until he didn't. Marie's also a known sex worker in downtown Indianapolis. According to Josh Thomas, former publisher of Gay Beat magazine who wrote about the I-70 murders in 1990, Marie's was not identified for eight months because no one reported him missing.

Maurice's mother was in a mental institution hospital when he went missing. He wasn't able to report him until she was discharged. This poor family sounds like they had a lot more shit to deal with than most of the rest of us ever will. 14 year old Delvoid Baker, the youngest and only black i70 strangler victim was found in a ditch near River in Hamilton County on October 3rd, 1982.

He was found partially unclothed. Delvoid did have marks on his neck, but according to Detective Jim Ryan Barger, that force would not have strangled him, but some others disagree. Delvoid was only an eighth grader. Delvoid was very involved in his church as a young child. His adoptive mother, Perly Townsend, said, whenever Delvoid did something wrong, he'd start crying and asked me to pray for him.

Delvoid not only lived a short life, he lived a damn hard one. Some people, man, the hands that they are dealt to start their lives off are just so fucking tragic. He was one of five kids, but his mom didn't want to keep custody of him. So Perly Townsend took him when he was a toddler. Delvoid worked a paper route,

but he liked to spend more than he saved. Eh, what kid doesn't? His adopted mom told him not to spend money on nonsense so this good kid started bringing home groceries. He said Delvoid was too trusting of strangers and we'd get into someone's car without hesitation. She tried to warn him saying, Delvoid, you can't do that.

People will do nasty things to you. And then unfortunately, that's exactly what would happen. Delvoid left home at 4 p.m. on October 1st. His parents said he was riding his bike to the city center on the 90 disappeared, called him at 10, 30, said he'd be home late because he was going to the movies. His parents were worried because they knew

he didn't have money with him. What his parents did not know was a Delvoid and a friend had been going to gay bars for three months. The friend reported that he and Delvoid did sex work and charged 20 to $23. That's a random, very specific total per night. Fucking again, this kid is an eighth grade. On October 2nd, 1992 Delvoid and his 16 year old friend

went in front of the central library, where again, male sex workers were known to frequent and find clients. Delvoid was seen getting into a blue van to University Park. The driver was a white man approximately 30 years old with a bushy mustache. Her was 35 at that time, but did look younger than he was.

No word on whether or not he had a mustache, but it was 1982. And he was a 35 year old white dude, a frequent gay bar. So, oh, it's pretty good. He was rocking a sweet stash. Also in 1982, an officer task force, eight officer task force, was created by the Indian apolis Police Department to investigate this series of murders. All of which occurred not far from I 70 law enforcement right began now talking about the I 70 strangler, but it doesn't seem these killings ever warranted any front page news.

Following spring, May 28, 1983, 22 year old Michael Andrew Riley goes missing after going to the Vogue theater, a nightclub in the Broadriple neighborhood of Indy. That comedy club I used to play at called crackers right next door to the Vogue theater, a nightclub in the Broadriple neighborhood of Indy. That comedy club I used to play at, uh, called crackers right next door to the Vogue. And I always thought the Vogue would be a cooler venue to play, because it was cooler. Intimate venue, 900 person capacity rock club, a lot of cool bands have played there over the years. The Red Hot Chili Peppers played their back in 1987. That would have been a fucking great show. Johnny Cash played there in 1995, Snoop Dogg, White Stripes, Willie Nelson, all kinds of acts. Cannibal corpse just played there in 1995, Snoop Dogg, White Stripes, Willie Nelson,

all kinds of acts. Cannibal corpse just played there last week. And one of my old favorites, G-Love and the special sauce. Actually, I think it's just G-Love though. Sometimes he works solo, sometimes he's got the trio. I'm gonna be there in January. Anyway, back in 1983, Michael was last seen leaving the Vogue with an unknown man a week later on June 5th. Michael's body found in a drainage ditch in Hancock County, naked from the waste up, cause of death, strangulation perpetrator, most likely use a towel or something similar. On June 8th, 1983, investigators determined that Michael was dead for four to seven days before he was found, cornered Charles Glidewell said something unknown was taken and wrapped around his neck

until he died. Michael was dating a 40 year old woman at the time of his death. He worked as a vending machine route salesman. Every specific job. Please said Michael was probably off on a holiday when he went missing, but his mother didn't believe that because his car, motorcycle, and checkbook were still at home. Also in the summer of 1983, the FBI now joins the investigation into trying to find the I 70 strangler. June 12, 1983, the Indianapolis

star reports that the FBI determined that two men are responsible for at least eight murders in the past three years. One suspect who stabbed at least four men to death. Men I did not mention was thought to be white, 20 to 30 years old, working a low skilled labor job, a fan of military paraphernalia and leading a healthy lifestyle. The other killer, whose victims I did just go over, not all of them originally assigned to this killer back in the summer of 1983, described as white, approximately 45 years old,

overweight, worked a high-paying job, respected by his community, thought to maybe be married, but had no intimacy with his wife. He was suspected of killing partially over the shame and guilt he felt, because of his attraction to men and boys. This suspect now thought to be her boundweister. Well, found not too far off from the truth.

Fucking nailed that no intimacy part. Six times! 25 years. On July 6, 1983, a now 17-member task force of Central Indiana police agencies begins reviewing their reports of over eight cases of murdered men since 1980. One of their goals was also to improve contacts with the Indianapolis gay community. They set up a phone hotline to receive future tips. Jump ahead two years now, ride around the time Herbert gets fired from the BMV for causing

some pissed problems. On May 9, 1985, the body of 17-year-old Eric Rodiger found in a creek bed east of Lewisburg, Ohio, been missing for two days. Witnesses last saw Eric at a bus stop, except and ride instead of getting on the bus. He had been strangled with a rope. Eric was also missing his shirt like several of the other victims, unlike the other victims, at least what was published about them. He had definitively been sexually assaulted.

And at the time of his death, Eric was trying to get a summer job, but then never showed up to his three interviews on May 7th. He's one of four children described as a good kid, fun to be around. Eric's father said that he wasn't gay, but he did attract some very strange people. I also said he didn't approve of Eric's friends and said I wouldn't be surprised anything they might do to pick up money for drugs. So maybe as the phrase goes, maybe he was gay for pay. Eric's sister said he was quote, troubled and confused and died before he could get help.

A preble county Ohio investigator in corner, Dave Lindloff now becomes involved in the I 70 case over the next five years. Three more victims will be found in preble county near I 70. On July 30th, 1985, Warner Brothers records releases the hit single No Looking Back. I'm not looking back now I can't hold on I can't be done You're best when you're low You're just when you're bad I'm not sure they're fine

They're all looking back now They're all looking back now They're all looking back now. I'm looking back now. Uh, yeah, that was Michael Mothers fucking McDonald. Rejoice for a triple M. Forget about that one. Such a good track. Now, what do that have to do with her balmeister?

Who fucking cares? It was fun. Back to her now. It's September 3rd, 1985. Herbert gets into a little trouble with Johnny Law. He got charged with drinking his own piss and public, misdemeanor. You can drink at home, but you can't drink it out around town. It was almost charged with a felony because they caught him drinking it from the source,

but his daddy stepped in, got the charges reduced. Herb herb had figured out that if you could figure out how to pee and pee hard while you had a boner, you could shoot it right into your your mouth He called it taking a shot of that wood cider That never happened that I've proof for I'll calm down for a bit and refocus. No, I promise now He committed a hit and run while drinking and driving Drinking alcohol not piss as far as I know he'll not get into any serious trouble though So I wonder if daddy stepped in again Six months later March 27th

1986 a warrant is filed for her by my stress arrest now on charges of auto theft and conspiracy to commit theft So I wonder if daddy stepped in again. Six months later, March 27th, 1986, a warrant is filed for her by my sister's arrest. Now on charges of auto theft, it can spare a seed to commit theft. Wish I knew more about this. Dick Meister, after a one day trial, will be found not guilty of these crimes. Later, 1976, on August 17th, 29 year old Michael Allen Glenn

is found in his underwear in a creek bed near Eaton, Ohio, eating just a few miles south of I-70. Three boys out jogging found his body. Michael had been strangled with rope. Michael Glynn grew up in Kansas City and Indianapolis. He was his parent's only child. Serve two years of the National Guard worked as a laborer and lived in a trailer park in Indianapolis. Since he didn't live with his parents, no one knows the exact day he went missing. His mom last heard from him in early May of 1986 when he sent her a mother's day card and his body wouldn't be identified until the fall of 1989

November 12th excuse me 1986 Herb's father Dr. Herbert E. Balmyster dies at the age of 66 in the hospital His obituary does not list an official cause of death Does say he was a member of Pilgrim Lutheran Church the American Medical Medical Association, the Indiana Medical Association, the Marion County Medical Association, fucking every medical association he could fill out an application for, and the International Research Society of Anacesialogist also wants the president of the Indianapolis Society of Anacesialogist. This guy liked joining clubs. There was also a request for donations to be made to the IU foundation for heart research

in his obituaries. So I'm guessing he died of a heart attack. What's Herbert going to do now with Daddy not around to help him get more jobs and totally speculating. But I feel like herbie was Daddy's problem child. What's going to do when Daddy's not around to help get him out of trouble? On October 15th, 1987, 21 year old James Robbins goes missing after leaving his mom's Indian apolis home around 10 p.m

He walked to the south side of the city on October 17th James was found naked with strangulation marks in a drainage ditch and Shelby County, Indiana near Gwynville A group of people preparing to play quote war games Found his body holy shit Can you imagine going to play some war games in the woods and coming across a fucking dead body? Hey, timeout guys, timeout! Who wasn't paying attention when we clearly went over the rules? I clearly said there would be no actual killing. War games, guys, games.

And what the fuck is going on with the raping? When some of you agreed to role play as Japanese soldiers fighting World, well, we're two. I did not think you would get that into character. Take it. Ah, come on. I'll call back to a few weeks ago. This case was linked to numerous other I 70 Stranger Killings. In 1988, now, Herb and Julie found open their first save a lot thrift store in Indianapolis. That year, Herb and Julie started Thrift Management Incorporated, a four-profit organization which operated their save a lot thrift stores. How did they get the money?

For this with Herb working in the thrift store and Julie not working. Well, Herb and Julie borrowed $4,000 from Herb's mom, Elizabeth to start the business. That makes a bit of sense, but $4,000, don't open a fucking, that's all it took. Four grand must have went a lot farther in 1988 than it does now.

And it did. 1988, the median home price in US was about 110,000. Now it's about 428,000, which is insane. I guess maybe $4,000 could be enough to get you started on a lease for a thrift store business. Still seems like a tiny amount to start a business, though. Julie and Herb would eventually own three stores. Save a lot would sell second-hand clothing, and for a time would donate $50,000 annually to children's bureau of Indianapolis. So they did

some good. Save a lot had a contract with the children's bureau of Indianapolis. I mean, they had a lot of incentive to raise money for them, because the inventory at Save a lot belonged to the children's bureau, and then they would receive a lot of incentive to raise money for them because the inventory it saved a lot belonged to the children's bureau. And then they would receive a percentage of the proceeds when it was sold. So people would give clothing to the children's bureau and then herb and his wife, Julie, would sell it in their save a lot store. It was very popular store. Herb and Julie earned $50,000 in their first year of business, which was almost double

the median household income in the US back at that time. Obviously, that's changed a lot now. One former employee said that herb and Julie considered it an upscale thrift store. Save a lot, even won an Indianapolis Monthly Magazine Award in 1992 for best place to buy used jeans. Herb is described as being a very non-traditional boss here. He often asked one, he often asked employees to drink beer with him at save a lot during business hours. Also, almost exclusively according to some old local news footage I watched, hired teenage boys or young men in the 20s. And for some reason, often called his place Waco as in the cult compound, which is a little

weird. Also, according to an indie newspaper article, Herb's behavior changed his new business when he worked at the bureau, right? He's working at the government. He talked about his wife and kids a lot, even brought the kids to work, but it's save a lot. He suddenly stopped talking about his personal life and employees noticed that he starts leaving for hours at a time during the day to do God knows what. Seems like he maybe really begins to kind of double down on his double life now. Something that Julie did not seem psychologically equipped to question or put a stop to. John Eglow, the boundmeister's lawyer said in this book about herb, where the bodies are buried, published in 1998.

Herb called the shots and Julie always went along for the ride. Whenever they disagreed about what should be done with respect to a particular matter, Herb would basically take over the conversation. He'd say, Julie, that's not what we're going to do. And then Julie deferred to Herb, even if she wasn't very happy about it. I can so subservient, just along for Herb's ride. The business was successful at first, but things will quickly go downhill after a few years. Julie said that working long hours parenting and financial troubles would lead to a kind of burnout. Meanwhile, bodies of young men

keep turning up that will later be attributed to Herb's likely victim count. And May of 1999, John Paul Talbot found strangled near a stream and defines county Ohio. This body quite a waste for my 70, but the task force still included No word and sources on whether or not the body was clothed. August 12, 1989 the body of 26 year old Stephen L. Eliot found in a rural area of Preble County Ohio near I 70. Stephen had been wearing his underwear only and strangled most likely with a rope. Stephen's father expressed disappointment with his son sexuality in a 1996 Indianapolis star article saying it wasn't supposed to be made public Even some of our family didn't know what he was He said he refused to forgive Stephen for being gay

damn Stephen was upset by his father's rejection and once told him I don't know why you won't accept me for who I am Yeah, no shit, man If you have kids and are lucky enough to have them fucking love you, would all just be happy about that. Whether they want to come with someone with the same equipment they have or different equipment, what does it really fucking matter?

I just hope that they're healthy and happy. The body of 32 year old Clay Boatman was found just two days later, August 14th, 1990, by children playing in sugar run creek, near Eaton, Ohio. Clay had been strangled manually. Clay's car was found abandoned in our place. The parking lot of our place, a popular gay bar in Indianapolis that, you know, her would

go to a lot. Clay was described as an LPN who had a drinking problem, one source. He was fast-knated by the 1986 case of a local teenage sex worker who was the victim of the serial killer and told his friends that if that happened to him, he would not want to leave anything distasteful behind for his mother to find. His mom died the year before he did. Clay's family knew he was gay and accepted it, quote, as best they could. Oh, this 90s time. Clay appeared laid back in calm, but it was an anxious person. He was carrying and compassionate, wanted to be in a lasting relationship. Clay was a nurse

and worked at an Indianapolis nursing home. Clay's mom died. He got serious about dealing with his drug and alcohol abuse. He wanted to go back to school, become a registered nurse, but it seems like a herb robbed him of that opportunity. So, December 12, 1990, 19-year-old Thomas Clevver's body is now found on an abandoned railroad bit in your Greenville and Dark County, Ohio. Thomas strongly suspected to have been a sex worker, last seen in downtown Indianapolis. Article of Adam said that Thomas grew up in a lower class area of Indianapolis and had severe behavioral problems.

That when he was with a freshman in high school, he pulled a knife on his vice principal, said that Thomas the sister Paula was hit by a car when he was just six years old. Thomas saw it happen and his mom suspected he blamed himself for it. Toward gender of his life, he was trying to change, he started attending AA meetings, asked his girlfriend to teach him out of read

Wanted to go back to high school and get a job, but you know her fuck that up February of 1991 for reasons kept private her moves out and files for divorce But then he and Julie managed to reconcile their marriage. Oh lucky Julie Wonder what the problem was wonder if Julie was upset because she kept minding dust in her panties from her pussy never getting any action. Or maybe she had the audacity demand that her fucker for seven time. And he was like, absolutely not. October 7, 1991, the body of the last I-70 strangler victim is found 42 year old, or excuse me 42 year old auto Gary Becker's remains.

We're found in a ditch next to a gravel road in Henry County, Indiana. Just a few weeks later, November of 1991, herb and the family moved to Westfield, Indiana onto that 18-acre property called Fox Hollow Farms. And now going forward, bodies will not keep turning up that will later be attributed to her bowmeister. Instead, they'll go missing. And then later, they'll be found on the now reportedly very haunted.

Fox Hollow. Sometimes it's called farm. Sometimes it's called farm, zah. Fox Hollow Farm was worth a million dollars back in nineteen ninety six and it seems like they uh... made enough money to buy it with fucking thrift store cash that's impressive according to the new york times the west field area was considered so safe that children could leave their bicycles unlocked even outside the county jailhouse

funny detail about the jl house actually wouldn't wouldn't't, you know, or excuse me, would that many people just leaving jail, just a jail anywhere, immediately steal the bike in front of the jail and all of its security cameras? I don't feel like that makes one area more safe than other. That's, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Fox Hello Farm is a former horse farm in the main house

in 11,000 square foot, Tudor Mini Mansion. 11,000 square feet. It's fucking huge. So it was 18 acres. It wasn't quite that big when Herb lived there, wasn't the square footage, but it was still very, very large. It's been remodeled a few times since.

Foxhull of Farm had at the time Herb lived there, four bedrooms, indoor pool, two libraries, five car garage, and custom features like stained glass windows. Fox all the farm was not the fresh start that I guess Julie and herb were hoping for. They grew more distant. What little sex they'd once had and so little. That was all over now. At some point living here, they begin to sleep in different rooms and now own a business

together and manage raising kids together. And that's about it. Each summer while living there, Julie will leave town for a vacation. She'll take the kids to a condo owned by Herb's mom, Elizabeth, on Lake, Wawasi, or Wawasi. I have a pronunciation guide for that later. So don't hold me to that pronunciation, but I'll get it right here in a bit when it comes up again. I do remember that. She might have, you know, begun, you know, for more than a month, sometimes like two months plus at a time and herb would stay home. While she's away, he'll work at save a lot during the day and then at night, he'll go to different gay bars around in theapolis under an alias of dick herb.

I wish. Sounds like some kind of seasoning that tastes like dick. I mean, put a little bit of this on your, uh, on your chicken, try it out. Dick herb. What was the taste like? Well, tastes like a crusty old dick, you silly goose? No, his ails was Brian Smart. 1992, thrift store royalty, Herb and Julie, open their second save a lot store. One former employee notices that by the summer of 1993,

Herb starts disappearing for a longer period of time on a regular basis. It's also often difficult to reach in by mobile phone. He'll say his battery is low. When he's not selling vintage concertees and bell bottoms, he's busy picking up poor guys downtown, taking him back to Fox all the farm, and doing God knows what to them. On August 9th, 1992, Herbs brother Richard is found dead,

floating in a hot tub at an apartment complex in Texas. His cause of death is ruled as accidental drowning. Years later, investigators will wonder if Herb killed him. Credit card receipts and other travel records do put him in the area when his brother died. Did he tell Richard something he shouldn't have? Did Richard find out something and tried to hold it over his brother or was just an accident? Seems suspicious. On May 28, 1993, 20-year-old Johnny L. Bayer is reported missing. His body will turn up on Fox Hall of Fame. Uh, two months later July 1993 two men are reported missing 31 year old Jeffrey Jones

and 20 year old Richard Hamilton another dick. It's fucking can't throw a rock in the suck that hit the dick. Uh, Jeffrey Allen Jones went missing on July 6 1993. He was last seen walk out of a Salvation Army rehab center. Uh, Richard D Hamilton. I would love it if his middle name is Dick. Richard Dick Hamilton, I went missing on July 31st, 1993. Richard Hamilton was last seen,

getting leaving his apartment, 2 a.m. to go get some cigarettes. Both of their remains will turn up in Westfield. On August 6, 1993, 27 year old Alan Lee Livingston, last seen getting into a white vehicle in downtown Indy, never seen again. While suspected of being one of Herb's victims, it remains yet to be found. Also on August 6, 1993, 31-year-old manual M. Rescindez went missing in Indiana.

Or Manuel, excuse me, Manuel Rescindez went to a nightclub when it was time to leave. His friends couldn't find him. Some of his bones will later be found on Fox Hollow Farm. And in 1994, according to one source, it is not let's say exact date. Herb is arrested for drinking and driving in Rochester, Indiana, since the three days and one year's worth of probation.

Wonder if he had someone in the past you see who would have died, had he not been pulled over that time. On April 1st, 1994, 26 year old Stephen Hale reported missing. By the way, this is not a complete list. So many people went missing. These are the most kind of These are the example the the people who are most definitively excuse me tied to herb Stevens remains also later found on herb's farm June 6 1994 28 year old Alan Wayne Brasard last scene leaving an Indianapolis gay bar yet another man whose remains will turn up on the old horse farm in Westfield

leaving an Indianapolis gay bar, yet another man whose remains will turn up on the old horse farm in Westfield. Later in June of 1994, Alan Brossard's mother approaches private investigator Virgil Olin, Vandegriff for help. Glad Virgil's back. Once Virgil takes this case, he is of course all fucking in. Vandegriff initially assumed that like many cases, Alan was run away. It gets no bit more a better old buddy, Virgil. He was once a sheriff, the

sheriff of Marion County started the PI firm in Indianapolis in 1982 working part time until his retirement in 1989. Then he went full time into PI work. A lot of people would come to Van Der Riff with missing persons cases because of how they were handled by the city. For a person to be considered missing in Indianapolis, they had to be missing for 24 hours. And then the case would go to a detective. If the detective could not find them in 30 days, then their case would go to the missing persons bureau where it would take God knows how long for any actual investigating to be done there. People came to Vandergriff because, you know, they didn't want to deal with all that half and bullshit. Alan was described as a heavy drinker.

He was gay, last seen leaving brothers, another downtown Indie gay bar. Van Griff quickly put posters up throughout the city, especially downtown. And in doing so, Van Griff soon learned that Alan far from the only missing gay man in the city. On July 22, 1994, another local gay man, 34 year old Roger Alan Goodlett, goes missing from downtown Indie. Another man whose remains would end up on the farm. Roger's mother, Catherine O'Rajo, said that they'd spent the day together. Roger helped her build a bench.

They talked and played with Roger's new cat. That evening, Roger got dressed, left to go get the bus. This was the last time she saw him. Roger's friend, Rick Rigny, weird name. Said that friend saw Roger get into a car. He was hitchhiking downtown. Catherine reported him missing on the 23rd, but the department had to wait.

Speaking of weird names real quick, just today when I was getting lunch, the waitress looked at my credit card and was like, Daniel B. Cummins. She's like, is that actually your name? And I was like, yep, and she's like, well, that's a funny name. So I get it too.

Catherine O'Rachho reported Roger missing on July 8th or July 28th, 1994. According to Roger's mother, the poor dude had brain damage and was more like a 15-year-old rather than a man in his 30s. Roger's family believed he had autism. His mother said Roger was a special soul. He loved the movie Poseidon Adventure. He had a completely memorized, obsessively watching it over and over. He knew all the parts and can recite any of the characters.

Not medically diagnosed, but the family feels he was autistic, high functioning. This would explain a lot about his quirky but lovable personality. Roger could recite joke, I had for joke. And he and I had contest to see you could tell the most that I miss his happy face. Roger graduated from Cardinal, written or high. In 1978, then attended Vincent University and the Pontiac Business Institute. He was a member of a local Lutheran church. Sources do not say when the brain damage came into play. Rogers remains were eventually identified in September 9th, 1996. It's time of time of death and cause of death unknown.

Rogers mother also came to Vandegriff because she didn't want to wait, you know, the 30 days. Vandegriff said that listening to her story felt like a repeat of the sessions he had had with Alan Brossard's mother, the fate of these men too close to ignore. He said, Vandegrift and another local investigator, Bill Hisley, now went to different gay bars in the city to see what else they could find out, but the owners and customers seemed reluctant to talk to them. They did manage to learn that Roger Goodlett had left a bar called our place with a man in a light blue car in a Ohio license plate.

That plate, the state it comes from, interesting detail that'll show up again later in a bit. Van Degryv told the police what he knew, but said they seemed disinterested. In August of 1994, Van Degryv is now approached by a man named Tony Harris. Oh, Tony, what a character. Tony knew Roger Goodlett. And he tried to tell the police in the FBI what happened, but no one seemed to believe him. Over several visits, Tony will give his story to Van Newgriffe And this will go a long ways to catching her

Tony believed that Amanda and Brian smart had killed Roger Goodlett Yep, that alias that her went by Tony said that he went to Brian smart's home and they both engaged in some erotic asphyxiation This makes zero fucking sense to me, but according to one source in magazine, in magazine.ca, Tony said that Brian talked about how he had killed people and didn't think he would be caught because he'd been getting away with it for years. Said his victims are mostly men who frequent in local gay bars in the 80s and 90s.

And it's some of them at a high risk lifestyle. What the fuck? I question this because Tony still fucks around with this guy after he supposedly hears this and they still have You know a Roddick asphyxiation. He still lets us do choke him during sex I mean some people like to live dangerously, but goddamn Why would a herb tell him this and then not kill him and b? Why would he still fuck this guy after hearing this? I?

Don't know I guess the answer to a could be because herb was fucking crazy and the answer to A could be because herb was fucking crazy and the answer to B could be because Tony is also fucking crazy. This is so wild of truth. Can you imagine going on a date with some dude or just going to fuck him right the 1990s equivalent of a tender hookup and then they start talking about having murdered people. How does that even come up when you're just hanging out with somebody you're trying to hook up with? Do I get you something to drink? Sure, do you have some tango and I love a G&T? Oh, damn You know what some guy had over last week drink my tonic right before I killed you. You okay with soda or orange juice?

Sure, yeah, no orange juice is fine. Hey, what did you say right before the orange juice option? I don't remember you want to go hop in the pool. Yeah, that sounds great. Oh fine. Hey, what did you say right before the orange juice option? I don't remember. You wanna go hop in the pool? Yeah, that sounds great. Oh, the water's so nice and clean. I just had a drain and refueled a few weeks to go out for Killin' the Sky in the pool. You need some shorts, sir.

You okay with skinny dipping? No, skinny dipping, great. Hey, what did you say just a bit before that, though? Tony had met Brian at the 501 club. Another gay bar in Indianapolis. You'd see the man before, but they had not spoken with each other. Tony noticed that the guy was looking at Rogers missing persons poster and Tony said, quote, I just had a feeling by the way he was captivated by that poster that he was the man

who killed my friend Roger, something in his eyes. Okay, then why would the fuck would you go go to this place to hook up later then? Tony's crazy. Tony said he introduced himself to the man after having this feeling who said he was Brian Smart, a landscape artist from Ohio who lived in a house outside of town. He was prepping for the new owners.

He invited Tony over to his house to ponder over what human piss tasted like or for a cocktail and a swim. Brian's car had an Ohio license plate. This is so strange to me also. Why was her driving a car had an Ohio license plate. This is so strange to me also. Why was her driving a car with an Ohio license plate? Did he have an entirely different identity? His wife and kids didn't know about including in Ohio address. Later records will show he did travel to Ohio a lot, but nothing's ever said about him actually having an address there.

Again, I feel like her bed so many secrets. Anyway, these two guys leave the city, travel to the suburbs into the wealthy area of Westfield. They finally come to a sign atop a landscape stone in bankment where Tony could read the word farm. They walk into Brian's unlit mansion through the garage. Brian leads Tony to a stairwell. Said he had electricity in the basement. There was a large rec room downstairs connected to an indoor pool, which does match herb's actual house of the time. Tony notices it is very cluttered and that also there are a lot of mannequins around the

room. If I can mannequins, Brian told him I get lonely down here and they give me company. That is like something that an over-the-top caricature of a serial killer says in a movie. No mind my friends, they just keep me company. Hey can I tell you a guy tell you a secret? Sometimes I hear them talk to me. Let's go fucking a pool. Fuck me, let's go fuck me the pool. If I were my mannequins. Tony refused to accept a drink from Brian, which he noticed seemed to upset him. Guess he net drink was loaded with roofies. Brian excuses himself, and when he comes back,

he seems looser, less timid, gabbier. Tony suspects that Brian had done some drugs while he was gone. All these two men now take off, they're close and began swimming around the pool in front of the fucking mannequins, talking for a while, and then Brian tells Tony, I just learned this really neat trick, and he picks up a hose and says,

if you choke someone with it while you're having sex, it feels really great. You get a really great rush. You just want to pinch these two veins and it's such a great buzz. You should see how someone looks when you're doing it to them. Their lips change color. That's how you can tell it's working.

Tony now becomes pretty nervous and scared, he said. Yeah, especially if earlier in the evening, Brian had told Tony, been fucking killing people, which I do not think happened, right? I don't think the following would occur if that didn't happen, but again, who the fuck knows, people are crazy. Brian now asked Tony to wrap those, the reptile hose around his neck.

Tony was too afraid, so Brian does it, right? So Tony, let's Tony wrap the hose around Brian's neck and then Brian masturbates while Tony chokes him. Y. And Wilson would write in their book, the only way to find out how these particular sex games ended Tony reason was to take it all the way with this guy. Okay. Tony now puts his hands on Brian's neck and lays down and Brian ties the hose around Tony's

throat. This is absurd. Again, Tony supposedly thinks this guy's a killer, killer who killed his friend, and now he's letting this motherfucker tie a hose around his neck in a pool surrounded by mannequins. If we knew Tony had done this and then Tony died, it would be very hard to feel sorry for him, right?

It would feel less like he was the murder victim of a serial killer and more like he had kind of killed himself through some kind of Darwin award. Tony now says he pretended to go unconscious, and when he did, the Brian eased up on the pressure, then whispered his name by Tony. Tony still didn't open his eyes, so now Brian begins shaking him roughly when Tony then opens his eyes and smiles. Brian says, he's scared the shit out of me.

You know you can die doing this. And then Creepley says, there have been accidents. Tony says he now confronts him. Is that what happened to Roger Goodlett? He says, there have been accidents. Tony says he now confronts him. Is that what happened to Roger Goodlett? Was he one of your accidents? Were there others? Then Brian doesn't answer.

He just stares at Tony. He's seeming not to understand at first, but then smiles a creepy smile. And then Brian's speech started to slur, and he fell asleep. Brian aka, aka Herb, what's he doing here? How many men did he just fuck around with and how many did he kill? But what was the trigger that made him murder some but not others? AKA Herb, what's he doing here? How many men did he just fuck around with and how many did he kill? What was the trigger that made him murder some but not others? Tony not decides to walk around the house while Brian slash Herb sleeps. He didn't believe Herb's story

about this job. He finds children's toys, women's clothing and rooms of the house. Tony comes back downstairs, starts going to Brian's pants for his wallet, wants to look at his ID to get his real name to report him to the police, but then Brian wakes up before Tony can find it. And now Tony convinces Brian to drive him back to town. And Brian supposedly told Tony, Hey, you're a good sport. You really know how to play the fuck is going on here. Now Brian asked Tony to meet him at the 501 club the next week. Tony couldn't tell Van der Griff exactly where Brian lived, but he believed it was either

Westfield or Carmel. Also wasn't able to give Van der Griff a detailed description of the house, at least on the outside. It was too dark. Vandagriff now has one of his employees way outside the bar on the night Tony. Supposed to be Brian, the employee watches every driver who comes to the bar, but none of them match the description Tony gave. The bar closed and Brian never showed up.

Instead of giving up, you know, on what seemed to have maybe been a dead end, fucking all in vandagryff takes Tony Harris to Detective Mary Wilson, the Indianapolis PD now. Wilson had previously worked in the sex crimes division, now worked in missing persons. Van Degryff felt like Wilson would take Tony seriously. Wilson was a lead investigator on the Jeff Jones missing persons case.

He was also looking to 20 year old Richard Hamilton, 21 year old Johnny Bear, 28 year old Alan Livingstone, and other missing gay men from the early 90s. All of the night name are suspected Boulmeister Victor. I didn't mention Alan earlier because his remains have still not been found from what I can tell. Tony told Mary what happened with Brian's smart and they drove around the suburbs north of Indianapolis looking for Brian's house, but couldn't find it. Mary still believing crazy as Tony now sends playing clothes officers to the 501 club, the varsity, our place and other gay bars in downtown Indy.

She has Tony to get Brian's plate number, if you ever saw him again at one of these bars. Meanwhile, Van the Griff continues looking into other disappearances. He told author Joseph Garenger, my clients had paid me what they could afford to investigate the disappearances of their sons. And even though the Indianapolis police had taken up

the case now, I felt like I just couldn't drop it in their laps and walk away. The money I was paid had long been used up on equipment and man's salary, but that didn't matter. And I feel like I'm on as something, well, that's my nature. Hey, I knew we were talking murder here, the existence of what I smelled as a serial killer. Oh, fucking in. Bill Hissley, former state trooper, was sent to the search, the search the suburbs for

Van the Griff. Bill Hissley, former state trooper, was sent to the search the suburbs for Vandegrift. Bill ended up at the driveway of Fox Hollow Farms and the estate matches Tony's description. Nobody's home, so Bill sneaks around a bit, peeks into the window, sees that indoor pool, later finds out that the property belonged to the Balmyster family. Vandegrift now has aerial photos taken to the property, but when Tony looks at the pictures, he doesn't think it's the right house. Saying that the drivewayways too short. Fack a damn crazy Tony.

Bill must not have seen those mannequins, maybe Herbert only brought them out for special occasions. In late 1994, Herbert's middle child, 13 year old Eric, finds human bones, including a fucking skull in the backyard of his house, right? Fox all the farm. He leads his mom, Julie, to a cluster of bones under some fallen leaves, then Julie asks her, what the hell is going on? She's not that she called the police,

but he talks her out of it. He reassures his family. The bones are just bones from a med school cadaver, once owned by my daddy, but does not explain how they got in his backyard. Jesus Christ. Herb, what are these bones doing here? Oh, those bones, those are bones from my dad's,

Godavards from Med School, that he gave them to me, and I forgot to mention it. Why are they just piled up under a tree in a yard? Well, let me answer your question with another question. Have you ever wondered what human urine tastes like? Ever pondered that? I bet it's sour, but I still don't know. Come on, it's cold out. Let's go inside and discuss. I also want to show you some more mannequins I just bought. Several days later, Julie notices now that the bones are gone and assumes that an animal has carried

them off. She would tell people magazine in December of 1996, it wasn't like I was sitting at home with nothing else to think about. Uh-huh. But you were thinking at least a little bit about the human fucking skull. Your husband told you belonged to one of his dad's cadavers that he just, I don't know, tossed out in the yard. And then, you know, after showing her the bones, they just magically disappeared. And he didn't want you to talk to the police.

And you think animals did that. And you didn't pursue the matter further because you didn't have enough time to think more about it. Isn't that what you're saying here? It's pretty hard not to just think sometimes that Julie is a fucking idiot. By the end of 1994,

save a lot was not doing well financially. Hard to run a business when you drink with the employees at work and killing people all the time. When you should be, you know, I don't know, selling secondhand jeans with them. Herb and Julie's marriage is at an all time low, which is saying a lot, are fighting, stressed out from financial trouble. Julie threatens to divorce Herb, but doesn't go through with it. Herb now becomes noticeably angrier.

He becomes a lot more demanding of his employees, fires though, so he don't do exactly what he wants. He's still disappearing for hours at a time, but now he's coming back more often smelling like alcohol. Save a lot was once known for being very clean and tidy. Now the stores are getting dirtier and dirtier. One employee said, everywhere you look, there were mountains of garbage bags. It was like working in the garbage heap.

March 31st, 1995, 46 year old Michael Frederick Kern goes missing. Mike has reported missing when he doesn't show up for work at a factory. He is Herb's last known victim. His bones also being found later on the farm. Suspected victim, but you know, come on. Herb fucking killed him. June of 1995, in the midst of all this chaos,

the Bound Miceers opened the third save a lot store in Castleton. Also though closed their first store on Arlington Avenue. So still down to two. August 8, 1995, 34-year-old local gay man Jerry Williams-Komer, last year in downtown Indianapolis, never seen again. Jerry's partner, Roy Comer, had not heard from him since August 8th. Jerry's car was found at the Castleton Square Mall after his disappearance. Not a known victim. His remains have yet to

be found, but many think herb also killed him, which is why I'm talking about him now. August 29th, 1995. Tony Harris finally sees Brian smart again at the varsity lounge. Ah, fuck yeah. Finds him sitting at the bar between two mannequins, talking about some piss, or sitting by himself. Haven't a drink. Oh, he spoke with Brian and got his license plate number

when he left. Brian was driving a pickup truck that day as plate number 75237A. Authorities will quickly determine is, uh, you know, that is registered to Herbert Richard Baumeister. Oh, Fox, the law farms westfield, Indiana. Finally the walls are closing on this prick. And I try to know I have a whole bunch of meetings over how they're going to, I guess, pursue

him or something. Over two months later on November 1st, 1995, Detective Mary Wilson and Lieutenant Thomas Green speak to her about his save a lot store. That one of them informed him that he is a suspect in the disappearances of numerous young gay men and Indianapolis. Herb denies ever going to these gay bars and the detective tell him well his car has been definitively identified as being there and then her becomes visibly upset says no one his family knows he goes to these bars and he now refuses to allow the police to search his property and tells them that he will not speak with them going forward, they can communicate to his lawyer. Detective Wilson now decides

to talk to his wife, Julie. She refuses to allow them to search the property. Her bed told her that the police were coming by and to not allow them to search the property. And she did what Herb says because, you know, that's who Julie was. Julie told people magazine, the police came to me and said, we are investigating your husband in relation to homosexual homicide. I remember saying to them, can you tell me what homosexual homicide is? I picture Julie actually asking questions as dumb as, what's a homosexual? Julie did then confront Herb about what the police told her, but he dismissed everything and classic Julie. She didn't bring it up again. All right. Herb just told her he was being victimized

by disgruntled thrift store employee and to keep the police off the state. And that is that. Julie said that she was so preoccupied with her 18 hour days that there are two save a lot thrift stores and taking care of the family that she didn't discuss the homicide issue with her husband again.

Oh yeah, that's it. Too busy with work. To find time to talk to your spouse about why the police think they're a fucking serial killer. That makes sense. That adds up. Julie said she had no clue, zero zip, that her went to gay bars and had sex with her men. Well, who do you think he was fucking, Julie? He's clearly not knocking your pussy out.

Oh, come on. Might want to wonder what else he's up to, but he's not telling you about. The police soon approached Julia second time and again, she is not cooperative, but as the months pass, Julie later said that she started to think about the skull that her son found and started to wonder if maybe the police were right. I love that adding the skull into the equation

for her took months. Hey, wait a minute. Some kind of puzzle is starting to come together. Hmm. First, my husband only fucks me six times in 25 years. Then my husband only hires teen boys and young men to work at our stores. And he also spent two months in a mental institution where I forgot married and wouldn't talk about what he spoke about there

And he has a lot of mannequins surrounding the pool and Then my son finds a human skeleton in the backyard that herbs that belonged to his dad But never explained how it got in a yard and then it just disappeared and then not long after that After herve been disappearing and not telling me where he's been going for years They're pleased tell me they think he's gay and a serial killer who kills other gay men. Should I be worried? I think I should be worried. After this herb and Julie's marital problems only get worse now.

I would hope so. But then Julie calls Detective Mary Wilson and blames her for their problems. She shouted at Wilson. The police are not coming to my house tearing through things, upsetting my children, all in the word of a psycho named Tony Harris, who my husband never even heard of. Click. Mary Wilson wanted to search warrant, but couldn't get a search warrant because she didn't work for Hamilton County and Hamilton County refused to cooperate with her for reasons,

not made clear. The following month, May, December, 1995, Herb and Julie separate. Just a few weeks later, on January 4, 1996, Julie Balmizer files for divorce. Over the serial killing, right? No. In January of 1996, Julie's divorce filing stated, wife believes that husband suffers from serious emotional instability. Yeah, he's fucking mentally ill. And as a result of neglect, the business is in serious financial jeopardy. Both of them had accused each other of controlling the family's bank accounts and mismanaging the business. In May of 1996, now the Children's Bureau board terminates their contract with save a lot, which completely

fucking destroys Herb's thrift store business model. Since again, Herb gets all of his thrift clothes from donations to the Children's Bureau. So he has no incoming, you know, inventory now. Herb now according to sources goes quote off the deep end. By late June 1996, her bowmeister is deeply troubled, has to close another one of the save a lot stores. The police are looking into him for murders. He knows he has committed and he is deeply in debt and he is now divorced. He now takes his son with him to Lake, Wahwasee, that's how you say it, Indiana's biggest natural lake, totally contained in Indiana. Beautiful lake actually, where Al Capone used to vacation. And when the boys were out of town, getting in some due time, Julie tells her attorney that she has checked their

personal bank accounts and has found out that all of her fucking money is gone. What a terrible life moment. She's 49 years old. And why does she still have bank accounts tied to her after the divorce, by the way? But anyway, about she's about to turn 50 years old and her husband, ex-husband, has drained all the money from their accounts. That is maybe my biggest fear with marriage.

Not with my wife Lindsey specifically, but like just in general that your partner could take all of your money. And I know some people will separate their finances for this exact reason. I would rather be cheated on, than have someone destroy my financial future like that. I mean, for me, that feels like a much deeper betrayal. Like you can choose on some level.

How upset to get or not to get about being cheated on. You cannot choose to keep living your life as you previously were living it. If you suddenly don't have any fucking money or substantially less money. I don't think there's too many good reasons to murder your spouse, but them taking all of your money. I'd understand someone killing their spouse in a situation. And I would not feel sorry for the person being killed unless they took the money for a damn good reason. On June 23rd, 1996, right after realizing

how thoroughly herb has just fucked over her and the kids won't fuck her pussy, but will fuck over her life. Julie Balmeister calls her lawyer Bill Wendling and asked him to contact Mary Wilson to now authorize the property search. Smartest thing Julie has done all episode by far. Well, that may be in divorcing her before the meeting with Detective Wilson, Wendling told her that Julie's son found bones on the property the next day, June 24, 1996. Julie, excuse me, Julie allows the police to search the property while herb is away at the family condo. Detective Mary Wilson, Captain Tom Anderson, the sheriff's office, Detective Jeff Markham, drive to Fox Hollow Farm to conduct their search.

Julie and her attorney led the detectives to the backyard, pointed out where her son found the skeleton, said she never reported it because she thought they were cadaver bones that her husband had dumped in the yard like people do for no good reason. Guess she felt a little embarrassed telling them that, hoping she did. Joseph Garrenger will later write the yard at first glance, look normal.

But as the men began to kick through low grass and patches of dirt just beyond the back patio, they encountered a bone about a foot long, charred from having been burned. They weren't sure if it was human. Then as their eyes focused on the area immediately around them, it quickly became apparent that those many pebbles and rocks strewn across the flat cover were not pebbles and rocks. What fragments of bone? They continued looking and soon found human teeth. They knew they were standing on a crime scene.

The evidence was sent to forensic anthropologist Steven Niroki at the University of Indiana and he reported they're human, they're recent, and they've been burned. Please now expand their search. Look over all 18 acres of Fox Hall of Farm while herb is still away and has no idea they find another dump area, find more bones, other body parts covered with leaves in a wooded area, only 50 or 60 feet from the house. Hamilton County Sheriff Sergeant Eddie Moore would later say it was mostly bones, all the flesh and what not was eaten away. There was little in the way of artifacts like watches and clothing.

They would eventually find the remains of at least 11 people, although for three years, news outlets would report the remains made up seven victims. In total, investigators would find initially over 5,000 human bone fragments. It is now up to over 10,000 currently and a new investigation is ongoing. The bones of at least 25 people have been found in this property almost Almost as many bodies as we're found under John Wayne Gacy's house. First bone found was a wrist and a vestigators found jaw bones, thigh bones, fingers, ribs, vertebrates, vertebrates, I don't know why it's written this vertebrates in the source, but one officer found a whole foot. The bones were initially found in two sites in the woods near the house. The flesh had been either burned off or

removed by animals in the elements and there were no obvious bullet holes. The remains of eight men would eventually be positively identified all over a three year period starting with that first property search. 20-year-old Johnny Lee Bear, 20-year-old Richard Douglas Hamilton. So it's Douglas, not Dick. 26-year-old Steven Eshail, 28-year-old Alan Wayne Brasard, 31 year old Jeffrey A. Jones, 31 year old Manuel Roussendes, 33 year old Roger Allen Goodlett, and 46 year old Michael Frederick Kearn. May they rest in peace? The rest of the remains still waiting for DNA matches.

I'll talk about it at the very end of the episode. All of the men whose remains were identified went to the same gay bars as her bowel meister and all went missing on days when Julian the kids were not home. Investigators immediately suspected foul play because no personal items or weapons were found with the bones is indicated that the person who might have killed these people did not want them to be identified. On June 25th, the police came back to search property again for the third day in a row, detectives, prosecutors, Sonya, Lear camp, Steven Iraqi also come to Fox,

cello farm on the 25th as well to examine the remains just a half an hour. No, Rocky and his assistants placed almost a hundred markers where they found additional bone fragments. They found compost piles full of burned bones. Officers also search the inside of the house and found a semi hidden video camera. They suspected her probably used to record the murders But they didn't find any tapes also on June 25th. Julie was granted an immediate emergency protective order to keep her away from the kids But Julie is afraid because her son is still with her

Herb excuse me had a lake, wawasi. She worried that he would you know what he would do if he learned what was happening Without a learning into the fact that he was being looked at as a possible serial killer, police officers are sent to the condo where her was staying to collect his son. Her figure that Julie was trying to take him as part of the divorce and released his son to local police officers without a fight. And before officers came back to arrest him again, I'm not entirely sure why they didn't just arrest him after getting him to hand over his son, he'll vanish. I think it's probably because they couldn't find like bullet casings, they didn't know how the remains,

like the remains they found on the property, they just couldn't conclusively prove initially that those people were murdered. And they, I think they wanted a bit more evidence before confronting Herb for their initial interrogation. Still on June 25th, investigators interview crazy ass Tony Harris about Herb about herbs as fixation fetish. Please have also been interviewing Julie.

Their main goal is to figure out how herb could have kept all of the secret from her. She said that she sometimes went to visit her her mother for up to several months at a time while herbs stayed at home. And again, like what a sad pathetic excuse for a marriage they had. It's just so crazy me.

Meanwhile, more and more bones, right? Continue to be found. Neighbors come over to report more bones in a drainage ditch cutting across the property. Investigators searching this ditch find ribs, more vertebrae, spines, and also a bunch of cans of Miller genuine draft, which was Herb's favorite beer,

as well as some handcuffs. The bones found in the ditch were much more intact than the ones found near the house. Dude, we're just knocking back some millers. Why did a little killin' them? Maybe burn a few bodies. Real dark version of fuckin' Miller time. By the end of searching was just knocking back some millers. Well, I did a little killing and maybe burned a few bodies. Real dark version of fucking millertime. By the end of searching just over the first few days, it was estimated that they'd found

their remains of roughly 11 men. On June 28th, 1996, Dick Meister makes it to Fanville, Michigan. He learned about an arrest warrant now out for him and was on the run. On June 29th, he reaches Port Huron. He also called his brother Brad, asked for some money. Later that same day, he arrived in Sarnia or Ontario, spent a few days there and then drove on to Grand Bend, Ontario, so he's hiding out in Canada. After her herb called him, his bro, Brad Baumeister, called Sergeant Ken Wiseman and said that her was in Fendell, Michigan. Said her, but told him that he was on a business trip and just needed some money. And then after Brad

said it to him, he learned about what was happening at Fox Hollow Farm. A few days later, on the night of July 2nd, a Canadian trooper stops her and asks, what he's doing sleeping under her bridge, says he's just a tourist and is just resting. The trooper will see luggage and notice a, quote, big pile of videotapes in his backseat. Virgil, all fucking in, van de griff later wonders

were those videotapes of the murders he committed in the pool at Fox Hall of Farms We will never know for after he died there there were no signs of the tapes on him nor in his car He must have tossed him in a lake before he shot himself perhaps is for the best Actually truly those tapes would have probably sent a lot of people in the therapy after watching them Herbs strangling guy after guy in the pool good doing god knows what else to them. Also on July 2nd, more bones, more handcuffs, more teeth, found on the property. Previously, investigators also found remnants of 12 gauge shotgun shells, but couldn't tie them to any of the remains. July 3rd, 1996, 49 year old, her bowel meister now shoots himself in the head with a 357 magnum and pineary provincial park

grandbend Ontario. He wrote a three page suicide note where he said he killed himself because of his failed marriage and failed business. He apologized for spoiling the scenery of the park. Apologized for ending his marriage. Apologized about the financial troubles of the business, but did not apologize or even reference any of the murders. What a fucking coward.

So odd to me, dude, you're fucking dead now. What is the point of still trying to hide what you did? It's like he was too ashamed to put down on paper and actually face who he actually was, even at the very end. Too hard to face himself. Even moments before he was going to take his own life. Herb also wrote a bunch of quote mundane details in his suicide note, random details about his trip from Indiana.

Shit like wondering if he had enough gas to travel Wrote about a bridgy crossed over from Port Huron to a sarni Ontario talking about how high the bridge was how he was afraid of heights Mention how he was gonna kill himself earlier near the blue water bridge by sarnia, but there was some children nearby so we drove on How kind of him right don't need to upset the children? Most random to me. He wrote about how he would just eat a peanut butter sandwich and then go to sleep. What a sad fucking final meal. A peanut butter sandwich. Anywho, think it's about time for me to wrap this letter. Getting pretty hungry. I'm gonna eat a nice peanut butter sandwich. No jelly.

Don't want the extra carbs. I'm really looking forward to having a nice lean corpse for the funeral. Also, I'm gonna know shit myself. I pull my brains out. Guess the peanut butter might help kind of, you know, keep it together, right? I mean, I mean, even some spicy and chillottas or something. I mean, that for sure is coming back out, but peanut butter, that's just stick inside. I'm thinking, I'm probably going to watch you down with some of my own piss, still been pondering what it tastes like.

And if I don't drink it now, I'm never going to know. Take care of the mannequins for me. Herbert, out, a speck told the star that the suicide note was inside an envelope that read attention Canadian authorities. How proper. According to Ontario Provincial Police Detective George Speck, Herb got to Saarney, Ontario about an hour from Detroit on June 30th spent several days living out of his car there. Drone along the lake here in here on Shoreline to grand bend Ontario. Paid $7 for a day past to the Piney provincial park, killed himself on the evening of July 3rd after the load and up his gun with just

one bullet. And his remains are found by campers near Beach Park and area. His vehicle was found next to him. Herb's family learns about his death early on July 4th, 1996. What a fun Independence Day message for the kids. Hey kids, your dad was a vicious serial killer who fucked and buried over a dozen men where you've been playing in the yard. Ha ha, no more though, don't worry about it.

Just blew his brains out in Canada. Hey, don't be sad, it's forced your life. Wooo! Here's some sparkler, some bottle rockets. We're having a big fireworks show tonight. Come on down to the park and grab some hot dogs. Our children were just 16, 15, and 11 years old at this time.

Man, that fucking sucks. How devastating. All three kids, that fucking sucks. How devastating. All three kids, yeah, devastated. Obviously by their father's suicide and by how he was portrayed then in the media. Julie later told People Magazine, nothing can take away the love these kids had for their dad. Eh, I wonder.

I wonder what these kids would say now. I am guessing now that there's been years for it to sink in, they're not their dad's biggest fans and Might not think about him in loving terms Julian the kids now move back to her and to move back into her and herbs herbs Jesus Christ first house at Indianapolis Which the couple had never sold Herbs divorce attorney Frank Miroff said that at the time her might have killed himself because the divorce and financial problems But he would be surprised of her had anything to do bones, saying, I just don't seem that way. He admitted that he'd only met with her a few times and didn't know him very well, but

he thought of herb as weak and unable to take charge. Not the kind of person to be capable of murder, and those are the ones that fucking get you. The one Jelise suspect. Late August, 1996, herb and J and Julie's family business thrift management now, files for chapter 11 bankruptcy, they listed their liabilities as $1.00 or $1 million, $89,000 and their assets as only $156,000. So where do you go, Herb?

Take all that money out of the personal accounts, where did that go? You fucking kill yourself, and you leave your wife with almost a million dollars worth of business debt. I doubt that Julie would think of Herb lovingly after all this. On November 25th, 1996, Indianapolis star publishes Julie's first public interview since Herb's death.

Like everyone else, Julie was left with more questions and answers. She said she still cared about Herb and missed him. But she wanted to know how all those bones ended up behind their house. How the fuck do you think they did? Because he killed those guys, Julie. Come on, wake up! Charles, I wish that Herb had explained more in his suicide note. The star wrote,

What frustrates Balmeister is that she feels the public has tried and convicted her husband and the deaths. Julie wanted the murder solved, even if it implicates her because truth is right. But nobody knows that he did it. Get the fuck, he's fucking guilty, Julie. Come on. What do you think happened? Some other random dude just kept bringing bodies back to your house. When you were out of town, burning them, dumping them next

to the house without herb noticing. And then this other person only did this when you were out of town and only brought men back who had been seen with fucking bars with Herbert. The power of denial. So strong. Julie. Julie admitted that there were a lot of things she didn't know about her, you know, like how it's fucking dick felt. I know she didn't know why he never graduated college, why he picked anatomy at IU, and why he never discussed his time in the psychiatric hospital with her. Julie also said that herb and the men, oh sorry, Julie also said that if herb and the men use the indoor swimming pool water or indoor swimming pool Water would have splashed on to a nearby window

But Herb never would have thought to clean the splash marks and she never saw them She also never saw an ash tray cups trash or spill marks on the carpet which led her to believe that you know, you didn't he didn't do it Jewell's wake the fuck up He might have cleaned not cleaned up around the house, you know, it'd be nice to you, but uh He had a bit more incentive to clean up after the murders. Also the mannequins jewels. Come on. That didn't weird you out just a little bit Julie said there's no book to get at the library on how to deal with this. Do I feel sorry for myself? Yes, I didn't deserve this My kids didn't deserve this and the people who died didn't deserve this All right, but that's that's actually very true. That's actually good quote jewels

All right, well, that's, that's actually very true. That's actually good quote, jewels. Around this time, PI Virgil Motherfuckin' All in Vandegriff shares crazy Tony Harris' story with David Lindoff. Lindoff, excuse me, lead investigator on the I-70 strangler's murder cases. They figure out that the last I-70 victim died right before the Indianapolis men started to go missing, right before her, but those 18 acres.

Lindoff now learns that herb made countless trips to Ohio in the late 80s. Julie told him that herb went on hundreds of business trips from Indianapolis to Ohio and that he traveled on I-70. Julie Cooperated with Linloth, gave him credit card receipts, phone records in their car, Balmyster's picture. Also matched a police sketch created from testimony

for my witnesses who allegedly saw the I-70 Strangler. Van Griff also was the one to implicate herb in his brother's death and he said there, a police sketch created from testimony for my witnesses who allegedly saw the i70 strangler. Van Griff also was the one to implicate her in his brother's death. And he said there, herb has an older brother who lives in Texas. Now I don't know if herb had visited him at the time or not, but and this is real strange. That particular bowel moisture was found dead in a whirlpool. The case was never solved, but this incident occurred around the same time herb was strangling people in his pool.

I ask you, does that ring too close to home or doesn't it? It does ring too close to home. Virgil, it does. April 28th, 1998, investigators in Indiana and Ohio announced that her biomyster has been linked to the deaths of nine men. Men whose remains were not found on his property. Between 1980 and 1990, these nine men were strangled and dumped in streams and culverts never far from my 70. In the 1980s, 1990s, these nine men were strangled and dumped in streams and culverts never far from my 70. On investigators now announced that Herb may have also killed at least seven more men whose remains have been found on his property.

Sheriff James Bradbury said that the cases were considered closed. And if somebody has any information, we don't care who it is, we'd be happy to look at it. But Herb Boundmeister is the only suspect we have in any of them. Authorities suspected that after her move to Westfield, he started dumping bodies on his farm because now he had the space to do so. Another suspect of the I-70 murders was Larry Eiler, an Indiana serial killer who may have known Herp, or possibly even killed with him on occasion.

Larry was five years younger than Herpert. Now, if you get into arguments with his boyfriend, he would drive around looking for new victims. He eventually confessed to murdering 21 men in Illinois in Indiana. He had been apprehended back in August of 1984, sentenced to death on October of 1986. Eilers murder spree lasted roughly two years and he killed his victims with a knife instead of strangulation. And some of the victims of the I-70 Stranger that I did not mention because they were

not associated with her were stabbed. And then Eilers would die of AIDS in March of 1994. On March 8, 1994, I had a attorney, Kathleen Zellner released a list of 21 men and boys, I had a confess to murdering. Marla Stevens, public policy director of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered fairness, and LGBT civil rights and advocacy group, told the Indian apolis star there's some speculation that Boundmeister mimicking Eilor or was his accomplice. Either did claim that he had an accomplice in four of the murders and Eilor was known to frequent our place. Same gay bar where Herb was a regular and where he had met many of his victims. Man that was a dangerous

ass bar to be a regular at back then. At least two serial killers frequented for a while. To date now going to the present authorities have found the remains of again at least 25 people on Boundmysters property. There's no exact number because of the state of the remains burned and scattered. In addition to those 25 plus people officials won't publicly definitively attribute to her Boundmysters because the state of the remains doesn't allow for the possibility to determine a cause of death. Investigators also believe Boundmysters were responsible for the death of the remains doesn't allow for the possibility to determine a cause of death. Investigators also believe that my story was responsible for the death of at least nine more men and teenage boys, as I said, whose bodies were left in shallow streams, ditches, etc.

Across Indiana and Ohio between 1980, 1990, the I-70 strangulations. And as I mentioned, the property being investigated again right now, because recently more remains were unearthed by the current owners. Very likely that Herb killed at least 34 boys and men, one more than John Wayne Gacy suspected body count of at least 33. And let's get out of here and move on to the paranormal aspect of today's episode. Good job, soldier.

You've made it back, barely. Okay, before I get into the paranormal part of the episode, which I've been greatly looking forward to, first just another quick ad break. Coming this holiday season from director Michael Bay and new line cinema, the greatest action blockbuster in the history of not just holiday movies, but all film. Opening in theaters on Christmas Day, killer Christ, starring Nicholas Cage as the most bloodthirsty savior the world has ever known. Alright everybody, turn to your other cheek time is over.

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you're gonna lock their motherfucking heads up! It's the end times, and the spirit of forgiveness is over. You will repent, you will convert, or you will die. Water into wine, Try water into maple. I'm starving today. And the only thing I want to eat is the blood of infidels. If you care about your soul as critics, don't miss Killer Christ. Even if you don't watch it, Killer Christ is watching you.

It's the eighth day, motherfucker! I'm all rested up. And you motherfuckers are gonna die. Ah, that fucking movie sounds great. If you wanna know where the hell that came from, check out last week's episode. Ha, ha, ha. And that was the best,

that was the best impressions I can do. And now let's talk about the possibility. There they go. That was very fun for me, if it wasn't for anybody else. Now let's talk about the possibility that the ghosts were, and some of those victims now haunt Fox Hollow Farm. Now can I prove that this supposed to haunt anything more than the overactive imaginations

that people making these claims I cannot. But a lot of paranormal enthusiasts believe this place to be very haunted. For you bad magicians, that also listen to scared of death, the following details are from episode 129 of scared of death just beyond. For those of you who don't already listen

to my other podcast, the one I co-host, my wife Lindsay, this is just a good example of the kinds of stories that we tell there, but with spooky sound beds beneath them. A big part of my motivation to launch scared to death was to be able to tell stories like the following one without feeling the need to be overly critical, right? Without feeling like I need to punch them up, try and find some humor. Sometimes this critical is like, and be with the stories here, which I like. I also love some good old fashioned escapism to suspend disbelief and just wonder, what

if I like to think in today's case, what if this place actually is fucking haunted? What if all the horrible crimes, evidence or not confession or not that herbed for sure committed, left some sort of paranormal impression of sorts that remains there to this day? You know, like what if we do have souls? What if those souls can become ghosts and what if ghosts can become trapped, reliving their final terrible moments? What if the ghost of a killer can continue to try and create more pain and misery and

even death from beyond the grave? Probably should have told this story back in October. Oh well, I'm telling it now. As soon as I told this following story back in February and scared of death, I wanted to dig into the same story of time suck, but you know, go further into herbs crimes and just finally got around to doing that. So now this picks, this part picks up not long after Herb's story ends just three years later.

So May of 2009, almost exactly three years after Herb's crimes are exposed after her, you know, killed himself and during the kids move off the property, Robert and Vicki graves purchase Fox Hollow Farms. The house was originally listed at $2.8 million, but they would pay only $987,000. Some of that price drop can be attributed to the real estate crash of 2008, but not all of it.

That's a massive drop, almost a third of the asking price. The property's dark history, I think, had a lot to do with it not selling for anywhere near its original asking price. The house had been remodeled quite a bit since the days of the B bowmeisters, but still had that infamous indoor pool. There's not sound like the mannequins came with the sale.

The graves and what a perfect last name for a couple buying a property that was also a burial ground. We're excited to move into the house that they thought would be the perfect home for themselves and there are two young boys for many, many years to come. They were not worried about the history of the home affecting their presence, but they soon would be. There weren't any initial signs. Did anything supernatural was lurking in the house for the first few months?

Well, not really. There was one supposed strange incident. One day while Vicki was vacuuming halfway through the cleaning the hallway, she said the vacuum stopped working. Vicki spun around, saw the plug fall out of the outlet. All right, shrugged it off. Not a big deal.

Commits herself. She must have pulled the cord too hard. Happens a little time. the plug falling out of the outlet. Right? Shrugged it off. Not a big deal. Commits herself. She must have pulled the cord too hard. Happens all the time. I do it myself quite a bit. But then while she vacuumed this one hallway, it just kept happening over and over and over. Hardly a terrifying sign of the paranormal though.

Just something they gave her pause. Maybe weirdered her out a bit. But then when nothing else happened in the next few weeks, you know, Vicky forgot all about it. And didn't think about it again until a man named Joe LeBlanc moved in. Now Joe was a friend of her husband, Roberts, who found himself in need of a place to stay and he unknowingly moved into what was once herb

bound by his living quarters, now an apartment above the garage. And that was a detail that didn't come out until after Herb's death that for a chunk of time, when he and Julie lived at Fox Hollow farms, they had separate bedrooms. I mentioned it briefly not surprising after what we learned about their sham of the marriage. Joe Joe's moving in seems to have awakened something seem to have triggered maybe some

resident ghosts and to make in their presence undeniably known the very first night Joe stayed in herps old room he had a terrible nightmare when he woke up he couldn't remember what or who but he knew something evil had been chasing him through the woods just past the house. The dream was so vivid that Joseph Drennellan surged as soon as he woke up so much he literally leapt out of bed, still running and actually ran into the door, hitting his head against it at a some fucking dream. Then later that same day, Robert was on a ladder painting in the house when he heard his wife now urgently shouting for his attention. Robert, there's someone here, someone's in the woods.

Robert climbed down initially, not alarmed. He was already getting used to trespassers, right, on their new property, so far, he'd just been thrill seekers, you know, kids mostly looking for places where bodies have been buried. Robert did worry, though, that one of these times a trespasser would be someone who might try to break into the house. And due to that concern, he kept the shotgun near the front door. By the time he retrieved this weapon, Vicki's face was white

as a sheep. She stood frozen to the spot where she'd seen the trespasser still staring out the window, and she told Robert that there wasn't an intruder after all. Not exactly, not a living one. Vicki said that she saw what looked like a young man in a red shirt running to the woods terrified of whatever or whoever was chasing him. And then as he passed by a tree, Vicki saw that he impossibly had no legs. And then a second later just, pff, vanished into thin air. Imagine actually witnessing something like that. While sober, while not suffering from some mental illness that includes hallucinations,

I've never had an experience like that. I go back and forth when it comes to wanting to have an experience like that or not. The very next day, Joel Blanc now learns that the nightmare he had was not a scary one-off. It would be an intro to greater horrors. He started experiencing a new nightly occurrence that will prevent him from getting the good night's sleep. He'll stay for months. He said the night after night, supposedly exactly at 3 a.m. Joe will be awakened by a loud knocking at the door of his apartment.

First time it happened, he said that Fred, his usually very relaxed and friendly dog, was bearing his teeth and growling at the door. I imagine Bojangles will not stay calm for that shit either. I know that my dog's Penny Pooper and Ginger Bell, Penny and D.D. would freak the fuck out. Fred clearly did not like whoever or whatever was on the other side of the door. This first night, as Joe now sat up in his bed, heart pounding and knock then came again. But louder this time, Joe quickly went to the door thinking, hoping that maybe Robert or Vicki had lost their keys or needed his help with something. But when he opened the door, there was no one on the other side.

No sounds of anyone in the area. But Frank was still growling and agitated. And it took a while for him to calm down. I've heard about this. Robert's studentwell decided to put security cameras around the house, and the grounds thinking that maybe the family's being tormented by some unidentified trespasser, still hopeful that the problem was not paranormal in nature, and that his wife just didn't see what she thought she saw. But then that 3am, nightly knocking, kept continuing, nighted for night. Joe's jumping out of bed, flinging his door open, only to find no one there.

Then about a month into a stay, Joe allegedly hasn't even more intense paranormal experience. He'll later say that he was taken Fred, front nightly walk around the grounds, had made it to the outskirts of the woods, where Fred suddenly became extremely agitated. He started growling, snarling, and then very unlike him, he took off ignoring Joe's commands for him to stop and ran into the woods. Joe chased after him wondering just what had gotten into his well-trained normally would never do that companion. Soon he saw something out of the corner of his eye. A man was running through the woods with a look of fear on his face.

He seemed to be definitely running away from something or again from somebody. Joe was about to call out to the man to see if he needed help. When his mouth dropped, he saw just as Vicky had seen before that the man had no legs. Man's bed past a tree then vanished as quickly as he had shown up disappearing into nothing. Joe then retrieved Fred, ran back to the house to tell Robert and Vicki about what had happened. Joe and Fred would take a different route for the nightly walks from that point forward. In the weeks of filed, the nightly knocking on Joe's door became louder, more demanding. Joe continued to try and determine if, uh, determine if a living person could somehow be hindered

all. He quickly entered the door over and over again called for the trespasser to identify Themselves night at for night even in spec to the area around his apartment over and over but we'd never find anyone And then one night the knocking was so frantic it felt like the room was shaking Fred positioned himself under the bed wouldn't come out Joe now shout it who's there? I have a gun the knocking girls louder still louder and louder until eventually the door flies open There I have a gun. The knocking goes louder, still louder and louder. Until eventually the door flies open. And there's a young man on the other side who now steps to the door frame

and then stands still with a look of absolute terror on his face. Joe and this man now supposedly stare at each other equal expressions of horror on their faces. And then with the crash, the door violently slams, shut again. And when Joe opens it a moment later, this young man is vanished. The totality of these events led property owners, Robert and Vicki Graves to research the

case of her boundmeister. They read articles, watch news reports, even talk to the local police. They start to wonder if the spirits of summer herbs victims are now stuck haunting their property. And they become convinced this is the case when one night Joe Vicki and Robert are watching some old news footage. And Joe just about jumps out of his seat, oh my god, that's him. That's the man who came to my door. The man who Joe saw was clearly one of the young men who had been reported missing

And again, if this fucking happened can you imagine that happening to you? Unfortunately figure out who one of the spirits was not put an end to them haunting the property things allegedly get worse after Joe identifies his nightly visitor This next encounter again, if true, holy fucking terrifying. One night, Charlie, I have to figure out who was knocking on his door. Joe said he was enjoying a swim in that indoor pool. He said he was paddling around and joined the field of warm water on his skin, when suddenly all the lights flicker out. Almost simultaneously, Joe said he felt an invisible force grabbing around his neck, squeeze, while also trying to pull him under the water.

He fought against it with everything he could, events he freed himself. Joe, now absolutely terrified, climbs out of the pool, runs back to the apartment without getting changed. He's convinced he had just met the ghost of Herb Balmeister and that Herb's apparition had tried to kill him. For financial reasons, Joe does not move out after this, but he does say the fuck away out from the pool. And he does suppose they have more paranormal encounters. Another evening, Joe claims he's sitting at his desk when he

hears an unusual scraping sound. Said he went to investigate the apartment, found all the knives from the wooden block had been removed and arranged in the sink and that knife marks had now also appeared gouged into the wall. And he was certain they had not been there before. Joe had seen a few ghost hunting shows before, now decides to attempt his own EVP electronic voice phenomenon session using an old tape recorder. He wants to prove to others what he's experiencing is real. He asked a few questions, including who was present in his apartment while he was asking,

he does not hear anything, speaking back to him, but he says that when he listened to the tape later that night, he heard a voice clearly respond to male voice, say, the married one. Right, wrong. Joe was adam voice clearly respond to mail voice say the married one right wrong Joe is adamant this was the voice of the ghost of herb following this EVP session now whenever he's outside the property near the woods with the bones have been discovered Joe said he started seeing dark human-like figures darting around so they had no facial features just thick black masses but he could feel them watching him Joe finally decided that he was

in too much danger to stay wondered if of these figures will not just go, but something else, possibly something demonic, even though he hasn't, you know, or wasn't, excuse me, the best financial position to do so he moves out. After Joe leaves, the paranormal activity decreases, but doesn't go away. Robert and Vicki are still uncomfortable enough with the unexplainable events that keep occurring that they accept offers of some ghost hunting teams to now come investigate the property. So ghost adventures was Zach Begins, they're the first team to investigate the property. The investigation considered a mild success

with the most notable events being a few successful EVP recordings picking up a clear male voice saying things like herb did it and help. But when the investigation is over, the property is still just as haunted as ever. And so now hoping that they'll learn something that will help them in the haunting, the Graves invite ghost hunter, Richard, a step, and his team to the farm.

You never have too many fucking Richards in an episode of times like by the way, just dig, dig, dig. This dick in his team visit the farm twice. It is a fucking uncanny. How many Richard show up? I keep saying it and just keeps happening. Richard believed that Joe was the one with the connection to Herb Spirit

and that he was some sort of catalyst for all the recent paranormal activity. This becomes evident to Richard after he invites Joe back to the farm after a slow first day of investigation. As soon as Joe returned, activity supposedly starts to pick up immediately. Richard's team said they suddenly experienced the feeling of being poked and prodded.

Members claimed to have felt invisible hands grab them in various places. I'm guessing maybe the throat and maybe the balls dick. They also said that they found and this is terrifying an underground tunnel in the woods with the words with the word bones carved into the wall. After leaving Foxelow for the first time at Richard and his team consulted a Catholic priest and invited some supposed psychic name Brian Sanders to come along for their next investigation. the priest and invited some supposed psychic name Brian Sanders to come along for their next investigation. The priest supposedly claimed that the farm was not haunted by her, but all, but by any human demonic entity pretending to be her. Brian was of the opinion that seven entities haunted the farm. Herb, four of Herb's victims, a Native American spirit, and what he called an elemental. Some kind of, some people would call it some kind of demonic entity. The second investigation

apparently turned out more proof of the paranormal Team claimed to have caught an apparition on one of the monitors coming out of Joe's old closet Scary also came to the conclusion that the spirits either were not willing or could not communicate in a way that would allow the team to help them move on And the team finished their investigation by recommending to the graves that Joe stay away from their property fucking Joe by recommending to the graves that Joe stay away from their property. Fuckin' Joe. And that if they wanted to keep living there, they should not conduct further investigations and hope the spirits will settle back down and leave them be. Robert and Vicki took advice, they refused to allow more people investigate on their farm

for many years. They later reported that with Joe gone, the paranormal activity, those still present was very mild and seemed benign. And as far as I can tell, the grades, family still lives there today. Well, actually they do, because an article they just came out a couple days ago regarding bones being found references to the grades. As far as I know, no spirit has returned

to knock on any doors or attempted drowning in one of the swimming pool. And a lot of this information comes from a little documentary called the Haunt, you know, Fox Hello Farm that came out in 2011. So creepy shit of true, right? And Fox Hello farm, far from the only supposedly haunted place connected to a serial killer.

John Wayne Gacy's old home supposedly haunted, several places to Bundy Live supposedly haunted, Bill Gunness's old murder farm, hangy bangy, uff, da, uff, da. Also supposedly haunted. We've covered some of these stories already not just on time, but also on scare to death. Quite a few true crime stories connected to numerous alleged

paranormal encounters. So pretty spooky to think about the possibility of evil deeds that some of these dirt bags have committed. Don't fade into memories when they die. They might live on somehow and ways many of us do not like to believe are possible. Okay, speculation, paranormal speculation over for today. You can check out Scared of Death for so much more than that. If you're interested, now let's look back at some details that we know for sure are true about Herbert Balmeister in today's Top Five takeaways. Number one in late 1994, her Balmeister's 13 year son, found a human skull and other bones in the backyard. When the family confronted her about it,

he insisted it was just a cadaver, used by his late dad. And you know, he just kind of left outside, and maybe forgot about it. And his wife, Julie, did not question that. Number two, herb and his wife, Julie, owned some popular businesses in Indianapolis, they save a lot thrift stores. The businesses started off as very successful,

but things pretty quickly went downhill. Employees reported that herb was demanding, often disappeared for hours at a time and returned smelling like alcohol. Julie said she was so overwhelmed with managing the business and her family that she claimed she didn't notice any of herb's strange behavior, but get the fuck out of here. Herb acted strange their entire marriage. Number three, herb-bowmeister his wife six times, and they had three kids. I'm never gonna get past that. That feels like that should be in the Gettyspokal records for something.

Number four, after his death, her bowel myster was linked to nine of the I-70 strangler murders, the I-70 murders, where a series of murders, young men and boys, committed between 1980 and 1990, bodies dumped near Interstate 70 between Indiana and Ohio. Authorities believe that once her move to Fox hollow farms, he started to dump the bodies on his estate. And number five, new info. Despite over 10,000 bone fragments already having been recovered

over the years from Fox hollow farms back on Sunday, December 4th, a new team of cadaver dogs searched the property yet again. Indiana, K9 search and recovery brought around 10 dogs to the property. Dogs trained in the odor of human remains and the humans, and look for changes. And sorry, the humans with them look for changes in the dogs behavior during the searches to locate body locations.

During the dog search, there were around 20 locations that were flagged and potentially having human remains. The deputy corner log GPS points on each of those locations moving forward, the corners office will be consulting with their forensic and law enforcement partners to decide on a process the area. Investigators are still trying to identify the remains of so many skeletons or partial skeletons found at Fox Hollow Farm, you know, over a dozen. Anyone who believes they are a relative of a missing

person connected to the case should contact a corner's office at 317-770-4415. Jeff Jellison, chief deputy at the Hamilton County corners office and a corner elect said, if we don't get comparison samples from relatives of those missing people, then our investigation will come to a halt very quickly. I need people that if you had someone missing in the middle eighties, to middle nineties, I don't care where you're from, where they're from. I need you to come forward and provide us with a DNA sample.

It's just a swab of the cheek, takes just a few seconds, it's painless. We will come to you, we will get you the DNA test kit. So, Hale, Jeff Jellison, still working hard to provide closure to victims' family so many years after they were killed. Time suck.

Top five takeaways. Her bow minister, serial killing leads to a haunting has been sucked. Thank you to the Bad Magix production team for their help in making another time suck. Thank you again to Queen of Bad Magix Lindsey Cummins. Thanks to the suck Ranger and the art warlock, both of them tag team to produce in direct today's show. And thanks to Bitelixer for upkeep on the time suck app, the art warlock, Logan Keith again for creating the merge of badmagicmerch.com for helping run our socials along with the suck Ranger Tyler C and a team managed by our social media strategist Ryan Handelman. Thanks

to producer Olivia Lee for the initial research this week. Thanks to everyone helping moderate the COVID-19 curious three out of five stars. The so far listed as unofficial private Facebook page that we will rename soon and we'll reach out to moderators to help us. It's just been so much other shit going on recently,

like me being sick for a month. And the craziness of the holiday season, when you have kids, we'll get to it. Thanks to Becky and the Discord crew, keep in that Discord run as smooth and everyone over the time suck subreddit and bad magic subreddit. Next week, because it is the holidays, we're going to cover something uplifting and take a little break from the darkness. We're going to be covering Joseph Mengele, the Nazi angel of death, whose experiments on living human beings and Auschwitz sound like something out of a horror movie. And the week after next will be covering something of lifting.

This next week is Dark as Fuck because that is what the space lizards have decreed. This is a voted in topic. When World War II began, Joseph Mengele had already been part of the Nazi party for years. One of the first aims of the Nazis was to take over their medical establishment, right? Medical schools, research labs, universities, they instituted a program that can Vince doctors that the goal of medicine was not to heal the sick and cure diseases. It was to prove scientifically that the Aryan race was the best. Proof scientifically that all others were inferior races based on bullshit evidence like the measurements of their bones and traits that may or may not have been actually inherited, but the Nazis said they did or said they were.

This was the Nazi school of medicine and Mangala would become a star student. In 1943, Mangala was appointed the chief doctor at Auschwitz at the death camps in Poland at Auschwitz, Mangala wearing distinctive white gloves would supervise the selection of Auschwitz incoming prisoners for either torturous labor or immediate extermination, shouting either right or left to direct them to their fate. One word from him could save them, but sometimes that saving came at a terrible price. If you were some with some sort of congenital medical issue, maybe someone with dwarfism or gigantism or happen to have a twin, Mengele would spare you only to kill you in terrible ways with his research. And pursuing his evil curiosity and or to help the Nazi war effort, Mengele injected or In the name of the Lord, the Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord.

The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord.

The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord.

The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. The Lord is the Lord. some studies of twins and more. We've heard his names several times, but we've never truly explored his crimes into tale. And there's so much detail to give. Things he said himself in his journals and autobiographies, papers he wrote for the Nazi medical establishment,

Copius Lapnotti kept the eyewitness testimony of many forced to endure the brutality in the name of so-called science, his brutality. Just gonna get intense next week. Happy dark fucking holidays. Right now, let's keep it light and head on over to this week's Time Sucker Updates. First up, we have marvelous meat sack Alex Kefer-Swayney. Our Swany. It's shining the lights on a fallen lawn enforcement officer

and also trying to bring a smile to a wonderful man's face. Alex writes, hi, Dan and others. I can't say that I am a routine listener, but I do hear your voice daily. My boyfriend Steven is a big fan of your comedy and podcast and it also helps that him and Lindsay have the same birthday. We had the pleasure of seeing your show the last time you were in Kansas City.

We even got to meet you after the show. Steven brought a police challenge coin for you to add your collection He was very excited for that show and happy to meet you We forgot to ask for a photo, but he was happy to talk to you even for just a few moments Earlier this summer there was a North Kansas City police officer that was killed in the line of duty Daniel Vasquez He was our roommate Stephen and him were great friends He has been taking it very hard as anyone would

when one of your best friends is killed doing the same job that you do. Steven has been with KCPD for over four years was in the Army National Guard for eight years prior. Some days the only time I hear Steven laughing or seeing crack in a smile is when he listens to your shows. I'm just hoping you can send him some encouragement to keep him going.

He listens to you while in the car or while in the kitchen while he's cooking. Your voice is usually the loudest in the house We appreciate all the work and production that goes into your shows. Keep sucking. Thanks for your time Alex Keffer Swainy well Alex thank you for bringing this to my attention. First off resting piece Officer Daniel Vasquez. Man damn making the ultimate sacrifice Hope wherever he is now is a place where that shit never happens where he can exist in peace And Steve and I haven't been through what you're going through and I won't pretend

to have gone through it. I just hope going forward, you can focus on what you still have more than what you've lost. I imagine that your friend would want you to do that to live for him as well as for yourself. Thank you for your service, for continuing to do what you do. It's so important. And many of us do realize how truly important your job is. Hope our past cross again soon. Thank you for the challenge coin. We do have it.

And I hope you and Alex, you know what? I hope you do fucking till his brains out. I hope you fuck so many more times in six. It's a good way to bring a smile to your face bigger than anything my dumbass can do. Hail Nimrod, too. Now informative, Zach, Connor Martin, coming in with a hot take,

subject line of update Ted Bundy killed John Bane Ramsey. Interesting. And then Connor writes, whoops, sorry, that headline should have had a comma in it after killed, update Ted Bundy killed. John Bane Ramsey. But I hope you grab your attention. Yeah, dude, it was a good one.

Anyway, whoever reads this at the suckdown, I hope this news gets back to the suckdowns. I'm a criminal justice major in Colorado who comes before the cold-bearing first-hand accounts from the local detective in our police department who spoke of my police procedure class recently. He actually helped tie Ted Bundy to my city grand junction by solving a cold case disappearance,

not initially thought to be a murder. He figured out that yellow bike, which had been recovered from the river and was sitting in evidence for decades, belonged to a woman who was incredibly likely to be in a victim of that charismatic psycho. The bike linked it all together because while the family supplied a photo of her to help with her search, nobody ever looked at the bike in the picture. But during her search, the bike had not yet been found. They simply chalked her up as a runaway. Years later, when he was working on cases, he saw that picture and knew there was a bike in evidence that looked just like it and started connecting the dots. She was last seen riding her bike with a man, matching Bundy's description. She fit the profile of the women

he went after and all of this happened in my hometown, which has I-70, that we've just been talking about, running right through a conveniently located between Utah and Denver, which was right in his hunting grounds. Anyway, a lot more winning the investigation, but all the matters is I am now three degrees from Ted Bundy. The Ramsey case update was also because of the same guest speaker. Being in Colorado, he actually worked alongside the main investigators on the Ramsey case.

I know in the episode you gave a few probable conclusions, but I now want to share the inside scoop of which I believe the most. And this is not one I mentioned at all. Didn't know about it. He told us that almost every person on that case, although not publicly, wholeheartedly believed that John Bonaise Ramsey's mother actually killed her, but not intentionally. They suspected that the father had been molesting his daughter for some time, but one time the mom confronted him about it.

And by confronting him, I mean, they all think that she walked in on it happening, tried to hit him with the golf club, which he managed to dodge, letting it strike John Bonaire directly in the head. And as we all know, given all the fuckery that went on with the crime scene, the suspicion or any other, which is too hard to prove, which is why that version is just one of many. But at least it was speculation by the investigators. Anyway, if there's somehow makes it on air, that's fucking wild. It would make my girlfriend's Christmas to get a shout out.

We saw you in Denver last November at Comedy Works where I volunteered her for your mesophony a bit. You deduced that her condition was likely self-induced. From her suckling too loudly on her own mother's tittas of baby, her name is Jenny which your most mouth out was Jenny V. That's fair. And she now thinks that your best friend's was something and relives that moment. It's often as she can bring it up even a whole year later. I'm done now.

And if I was sorry for the length of this email, I would not have written it. If you have a problem with it, I kindly invite you to just keep on selling. Well, thank you Connor, a very interesting info about Bundy and John Boney Ramsey. How terrible if that is how she died? Holy shit, how terrible if that is how she lived?

That her father was a molester, she was six years old when she died. Again, some people's lives so short and so terrible. You keep on sucking as well and thank you for that extra info. And yeah, and say hi to my best friend, Geneave, who we are, best friends, Connor, and fucking live with it. All right, moving out to something silly. Super sucker, Anthony Thornton writes, Hey, King Spaces or Holder of Bojangles Leash,

listing the suck on IHOPKC and yeah, corporate worship does sound kind of weird. A lot of words can sound strange outside of church, you know? When I was a teen, we were in church singing to him. The line went, angels, prostate, prostrate fall. My friend Tim, lean dove and whispered, isn't the prostrate a body organ like up your butt? I nearly had to leave the service. What made it worse was that it was on local television. Three cameras made it pretty likely I was going to be immortalized, either

laughing uncontrollably in the pew or in the aisle. I clamped that down until I was able to explain the difference between the Oregon, prostate gland, and the position prostrate line face down. I still get the giggles to this day when that's on place. Three out of five stars wouldn't change the thing. Well, thank you for sharing that Anthony. And you know what? I mean, I bet angels do have some pretty sweet prostates, right?

Like I bet you, when angels are doing butt stuff, I bet they come so hard. Okay, now for some dumb fucking hillbillies. Let's hear for some backwoods, fucking sacks. Jamaica Keaton, I can't believe she even understands where an email is, let alone knows how to send one. But she did. JK, sweet as sack, Jamaica writes,

all hail the suck Lord, or as one of the people I have shared this podcast with said, all hell, the suck load. I'm writing you from small rural county in Western Kentucky. Yes, some of us can read right and spell. Though if you talk to me, I still sound like cornbread, but definitely jiffy. It's funny. I'm writing in just to let you know, the Kentucky accent is one that is very different from the quote, South.

And I would be happy to introduce my 90s baby black farm girl accent to your comedy brain bank. It would be my honor to pay tribute to Luciferina herself. Oh my. And give something back to you in the entire Bad Magic group. Hello. As you have all given so much to others charity wise and me personally through knowledge. My bi-racial Eastern Kentucky mountain man husband exposed me to your podcast a long while ago. He is a veteran, a history buff, a man that makes dynamite cord, legally I swear, and is no doubt the smartest meat sack on our side of the state.

Your podcast is given so much to our relationship, we listened to you in long car rides, but I had to stop doing that with scared of death, those stories in dark country roads, big ol' nope. We listen while we're cleaning and well, pretty much anytime we don't feel like talking. Even our son listens to you. We really hope to catch your show in Louisville, but eventually settled on, we probably should not bring our one year old.

Nah, probably not. Even though I'm pretty sure he's better behaved than most adults where we live. Having your podcast has really been a breath of fresh air in an area that smells like sewage, chicken farms, oil and secrets. You are a very funny writer. Now the darker part of my letter as people that think so much differently than those around us in Kentucky.

We appreciate hearing your takes on the rest of the world. We admire the way you provide research based on information and truly appreciate the way you help us feel seen in a place where we're often ignored. If we're lucky in some cases. Oh man, since you are covering more true crime again, I wonder if you might, if I might suggest the Emmett Till murder.

In school, we were never taught anything about that case on purpose, but now that I'm adult, I strive to learn everything I can. Your podcast is actually help with that. If you read this on the show, please give a shout out to my husband, Anthony Keaton, fucking Tony, it would mean a lot to him. Three out of five stars, wouldn't change a thing.

Jamaica Keaton, Ben Joe music plays me out. Jamaica, thanks for writing in. You sound fucking awesome. And so does your husband, Anthony. Yeah, the murder of, well, I mean, the lynching of Emmett Till is on the topic board. And I hope your message gets more space, those are voting it up. And yeah, that would be a great and important subject, very interesting case. Very sad cases, a lot of these are. But, and I know what it's like to live in a place,

be from a place, you know, the rest of the world seems to think it's only populated by nothing but in bread morons. No, there's idiots everywhere, but so are geniuses and everything in between. The small town Idaho kids, you know Sees you to some some degree in rural Kentucky. So hell lose a phena and I hope you can join the show and have for one last update Something inspiring ambitious sack Eric mother fucking harman done did it and he writes

Let's start with the typical ball gargling Praise because it's two I've been a fan of your stand up for years But you jumped to the top of my favorite comics list with the dead squirrel puppet bit Holy shit beautifully sick. That was my first taste of your ear heroin before I knew it I was time-socking and dark alleys cheap hotels and truck stops. So I'll fuck you Now I find myself a fully addicted space that's are waiting for my weekly fix Now for the less typical praise simply stated. I owe you listening to you for years on time-sook Building something from nothing inspired my wife and I have an vision for something that you'd enjoy and thinking it might work as a business,

putting it all on the line and taking the shot. About a year ago, my wife Jack and I opened an act-strowing bar in Mendocino County in Northern California. We don't come from money, so to pull it off, we had to recruit friends and family and physically build a business ourselves. Fast forward a year, excuse me. And we have built a stage and our hosting live music most weekends, we got a full liquor license and our restaurant that serves our

T-Gen grilled cheese sandwiches. What kind of fuck wits mortgage their house to start a business when a pandemic is causing trouble and people are whispering about a recession? My wife, Jackie 9. If you happen to read this on the show, please give a shout out to our staff of rock stars, the Thirsty Acts team, and especially to Joanna Villanovava. She's also a sucker in spaces that are in her hearing this on air would be fucking great. Jackie and I will be at your show in Sacramento in February. If you're interested in checking out our place, we're at the Thirsty Acts on Facebook and Instagram and Thirsty Acts.com.

Thanks again for the ear, heroin, and for the inspiration. Eric Harmon in youchaya, California. Oh, fuck, Eric, you did it. You and Jackie fucking did it. You walked out on that tightrope and you didn't fall. I'm truly so happy for you. What a wonderful feeling it is. Sounds like you've given cool jobs

to a lot of awesome people. I love it. Not sure I'll be able to swing by, but I appreciate the hell out of this invite and I hope some Uchaya area suckers out in Minasino County hear this message and go throw some fucking axes and eat some of that sweet cheese. And that combination, by the way, sounds like a pretty fun way to shit your pants. Hail Nimrod, everyone.

Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. Thanks for listening to another Bad Magic Productions podcast. Please. Fuck your wife this week. Or your husband, or your boyfriend, or your boy toy, or your girlfriend, or your fuck body, or yourself.

And please, if you're in a relationship with someone, be excited to fuck that person. And if you're not, I hope you can find someone you are excited to fuck. But don't trap anyone in a sexless relationship. Maybe if you're regularly fucking, guilt-free, publicly. The kind of person who gets your motor going, you won't want to kill anyone. Hey, I'll lose a fina. Let's kill him! More fucking! More coming! And more sucking too. And keep on sucking. I wish I was better in impression. I did practice before the show. I watched some Nicholas Cage interviews. I'm just trying to talk nasally with him and really maybe it kind of extend words longer than I normally would. Very funny for me to imagine him as killer Christ. And it kind of reaves, I don't know, I know he doesn't talk like this really,

as much as people make it out But like I try to go back to like point break kind of days. Whoa, dude. What are you doing man? Where you just try and like you're a little bit surprised all the time when you're talking. Oh, whoa And like a little bit of um, you and Ted's, ha, excellent adventures. And oh, dude, Jesus, killer cries. Well, what are you doing? And Samuel Jackson, I can hear his voice so clearly in my head, but I can't mimic it.

But I just keep repeating a few phrases from Pulp Fiction, right? Where he's like, English motherfucker, do you speak it? Say what again. He has one of my favorite voices of all time. And if I do ever hear the voice of God, oh please let it be Samuel Jackson's voice, I'll give my attention, right?

Like I don't know if the other two voices would. Like if I thought I was hearing God, and it was like, canna Reeves, then you gotta get your, like, oh, ho, you gotta get your life together. I'd be like, I don't know. You know what, like Nick Cage. Damn, you gotta get your life together.

Man, I know. But if Samuel Jackson was, motherfucker, get your life together. I'm like, ah, Okay! Whatever you want! I promise Samuel Jackson, you're just doing what you're doing, I'll do it! That's all I got.