Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 351 - Pizza Bomber: The Mysterious Death of Brian Wells

Episode Date: June 5, 2023

On August 28, 2003, a 46 year-old pizza delivery man named Brian Douglas Wells robbed a PNC Bank near his hometown of Erie, Pennsylvania, with a bomb locked to his body at his neck. After the bomb detonated a few minutes later, it would take investigators years to figure out who placed the bomb on him and why. Wet Hot Bad Magic Summer Camp tickets are ON SALE!  BadMagicMerch.com Get tour tickets at dancummins.tv Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/y5XuZM56Z80Bad Magic Charity of the Month: Over the years, we have tried to donate back to our local community here in Coeur D Alene. This month, we have decided that in honor of Pride month, we are going to donate locally to the North Idaho Pride Alliance whose mission is to connect LGBTQIA+ people and allies to various community groups so they may create a more inclusive North Idaho through Networking, Educating and Advocating. To find out more, you can visit nipridealliance.comMerch: https://www.badmagicmerch.comDiscord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard?  Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcastSign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits

On the afternoon of August 28, 2003, at 220 in the afternoon, 46-year-old Brian Wells walked into a bank just outside of Erie, Pennsylvania, and handed the teller a note demanding $250,000 in cash. The note warned that he was wearing a live bomb and that he had limited time to complete the robbery before detonated. By 3.18 pm, that bomb did detonate and Brian Wells was dead. Brian died surrounded by police officers, guns drawn and pointed at him. He spent his final moments asking for help and warning the officers that the bomb was real

and that he was running out of time to find the keys he needed to unlock it. Immediately following his death, investigators found a set of very strange notes in Brian's car. Some of these notes were sending him on a scavenger hunt throughout eerie, starting with the bank robbery. Brian was supposed to complete a series of tasks that would lead him to the keys that would unlock the collar of the kept the bomb hanging in front of his chest. The FBI, ATF, and the Pennsylvania State Police launched an investigation to try and find

out who put Brian up to this. Who wrote the notes found in this car? Who was Brian Wells? What was his motive to participate in such an insane way to rob a bank? Did he participate willingly? Or was he a victim? Was he conspirator? They quickly learned that Brian worked as a delivery driver

for a local pizzeria. And then on the afternoon of his death, he delivered pizzas to an isolated TV tower off of Peach Street, a central location in this story. Before he died, Brian said he was a costabuy group of black men who locked the collar bomb around his neck and handed in the notes that sent him on a deadly scavenger hunt. It turned out there was only some truth to that statement. The police learned that the call to sent Brian out on his very last pizza delivery, originated

from a pay phone in a nearby gas station. But after that, authorities read a loss, as to who else was involved in why Brian did what he did. Three days later, Brian's coworker died from a drug overdose, further confounding investigators. Was he involved in the heist? Did he have a hand in Brian's death and couldn't live with the guilt? Then a month after the bond went off, on September 20th, a man named William Bill Rostin called the police to report that there was a body in his freezer.

He said the dead man was James Rodin, and that he had been murdered by Rostin's former fiance and longtime friend Marjorie Deal Armstrong. Quickly some investigators felt that this murder was connected to the death of Brian Wells, but it would take a while to prove it. This was just the beginning of FBI Major Case 203, an investigation that would gobble thousands of hours of law enforcement work over several years. The investigation will be described as one of the most complicated and bizarre crimes in the annals of the FBI.

Investigators work to uncover a complex web of motives, plots, and conspirators all connected to the strange bombing. Who was the mastermind of the bank heist? Who was telling the truth when the co-conspirators started to turn on one another? Who was ultimately to blame for Brian's death? This is a crazy mystery. There was a lot of fun to unravel. I hope you enjoy the ride on this true crime. Who done it? The lives some people lead and the choices they make are so unbelievably insane addition of time suck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to time suck.

You're listening to time suck. What happy Monday, meat sex? Welcome to the cult of the curious. Welcome to the 450 first straight week of the suck. Dan Cummins, the suck master, possible undercover store detective. And you are listening to time suck. Nimrod Lucifina, but Django's triple M, a big hail to you all. Speaking of triple M, Yamo time suck, oh, Yamo time suck, reintroducing for the first time, the Yamo time suck design. A nod to our OG suckers available in standard and premium T options, this triple M inspired time suck calling card is now wearable for your daily time suck listening activity, also added two mugs to the drink,

wear section as well. So many super fun color ways to choose from to spice up your summer, head on over to badmeticmerce.com to pick up your swag today. And now just one more thing before we jump in a little shout out. The post follows police department officer, Nick McDaniel, Lindsey was in a car accident last week. Several weeks back by the time he hear this and she is totally okay. She was not harmed. Neither was the other driver, but both vehicles were towed away. Thankfully, no physical injuries. Officer McDaniel was the

officer on scene. Happens to be a fan. And before I got there, before he knew, Lindsay was my wife. He was already super cool. He didn't start being cool, because somebody liked showed up. Well, we talked a bit, he moved to Post Falls from Hawaii because he didn't like half the adieu shit, like give tickets to people out on the beach during COVID for not wearing masks at the beach. He seems like a good dude who, you know, wants to be paid to protect, not paid to harass,

and his bedside man or after an accident was A plus. Just wanted everything done by the book, wanted to make sure everybody was safe, make sure everybody got what they needed for their insurance companies, did so in a very professional and polite manner. And I'm sharing this because these kind of stories never get shared enough, right? We hear all the time about cops that don't do their job, or they do something fucking terrible. But what about all the other officers risking their lives, working in a culture that is largely turned against them? Officers not doing it for the money. This guy retired when he left Hawaii, but got back into it because he loves serving and

protecting. What about their stories? I think too many people don't want to share them because they're worried about public backlash, which is crazy. How dare you admit to have respect for tough ass, the tough ass job that cops do and the people who do it do a well. I think our far more good apples and bad like Nick McDaniel. And just again, thanks for making Lindsey feel like safe after she got, you know, shook up and something terrible. And yeah, thanks to the many officers who worked tirelessly like Nick to do what they do, including the ones who helped solve the pizza bomber death of the Brian Wells mystery.

Segway! Now we're into today's topic, just like that. This is a fun story to tell. I was telling Lindsay about the story last night after I finished research and she was like, wait, what? They did what? And then what happened? One of the prosecutors involved in solving this mystery

and punishing those responsible would describe the co-conspirators in the pizza bomber case as twisted, intellectually bright, dysfunctional individuals who outsmarted themselves. And after going over the majority of the details of this case and letting them marinate in my mind for a little bit, it feels like a pretty accurate assessment. Without giving too much away in the beginning, I don't want to spoil this unraveling mystery

for you. The pizza bomber case involved a very interesting group of people who all knew each other to varying degrees. The overall motive in the case was money, but each conspirator had their own additional reasons for getting involved in a crazy plan that did seem doomed from the very beginning. One conspirator was suffering from cancer. He considered himself highly intelligent and maybe he was, and perhaps he wanted to go out with the bang to die knowing that he had outsmarted investigators. Another was already on the run from the law,

so probably they needed money to continue living on the land. Another conspirator seemed to want money so that they could pay someone else to commit an even bigger robbery of sorts. Love seems to have been a factor in this twisted crime. The two people believed by most to be the masterminds of the pizza bomber heist had a long and complicated romantic history. And at least one party seemed willing to do just about anything for the other. And then it was Brian Wells, the primary victim in this case. He may have been too blinded by his attraction towards a woman he was romantically linked to to realize he was likely being used, very possibly set up to die from the very beginning. Never intended to survive for very long following his part in the robbery. So poor Brian, that guy got in way, way over his head on all of this.

We'll start off today by getting to know who Brian was. And after that, we'll head straight for the timeline, starting the day of his death, and we'll follow the investigation into his death as the FBI, ATF and Pennsylvania State Police work together to uncover the many layers to the pizza bomber heist ending with the convictions of some of the conspirators and some recent updates regarding who's still alive, who's died and more. So Brian Douglas Wells was born November 15th, 1956. He was the son of Rose M and Harold C. Wells. Harold died on July 21st, 1990 after suffering for years with Musculoscarosis.

Slerosis. He and Rose had five children per his fine-degree profile. However, people magazine article reported that Brian was one of seven children. And then in New York Times, article states that he was one of at least six children. So between five and seven kids. The New York Times added that Brian was a single 46-year-old man who lived with three cats, slept on a mattress on the floor, and listened to music in his spare time He was shy with people but animated with pets the kind of person who would get on all fours to play with the neighbors dot

Yeah, this poor bastard. He was he was also lonely as fuck when it came to women desperate enough to be the perfect mark for some cold bastards looking to send a stranger on a suicide mission Brian grew up in a blue collar area of Erie, Pennsylvania, pretty blue collar city. Erie, the fifth largest city in Pennsylvania, per the 2020 census, the population was over 94,000 people. The 1960 census, recorded when Brian was a boy, listed the population as more than 138,000 people. So a shrinking population, a symptom of being a casualty of the rust belt,

the importance of American manufacturing, US steel and coal production and commercial fishing began to gradually decline resulting in a major population downturn in Erie, started in the 1970s. It's been a minute, but I've done shows in Erie several times, stand-up shows. Went to Penn State, Barond, Erie's Penn State satellite campus. I think three times and went to spend a weekend at a comedy club there that is no longer there. JR's last laugh twice. The first time I was there with the original owners,

man, that sucked. One of my least favorite weekends in comedy. The owners were a husband, wife team in their 50s. When I was there, I'm pretty notorious in the comedy community. They would do, you know, have you Thursday through Saturday night and the wife's father, who was literally in his 80s or 90s. He would be at the Thursday night show.

And basically if he thought you were funny, they would bring you back. And if he didn't think you were funny, you would not come back. Like their comedy barometer. Was a random 90-ish year old man. And that is not how it is typically done. Because that's not a good way to, you know, find out what your overall audience likes, unless you have by far the oldest audience in all of stand up. Well, pops didn't like me. So I didn't come back and tell

someone new about the place. The others didn't like me either. That first time they told me I should do clean comedy. Mike the comic who opened up for me that week. They loved her. The husband literally told me I should change my act to be more like hers. Which is fairly insulting. 10 years later, she never really toured anymore.

And I'm doing all right. So maybe fuck that guy and fuck his father-in-law. Don't let anyone convince you to stop being you. Thank you, Luciferina, for showing me my path. Sorry, been a while since I've thought about Erie. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. A decade after Brian was born, Erie is still mainly a blue collar city. Still is compared to a lot of places. According to a 2018 article by the Erie Reader, the city's economy has not diversified at the same rate as other metropolitan areas around

the country. Manufacturing still accounts for 22% of the local GDP, which is more than the state and national rate of about 12%. Areas currently experiencing growth in the industrial sector for computer and electronics, so maybe it'll turn that a declining population trend around. Areas also poorer than most cities. 24.7 of the population in Iri live in poverty compared to 15.8% of people in the county. Per 2010 census data, the median household income in Iri was around 28,000 compared to over 34,000 in the state of Pennsylvania and almost 42,000 nationally.

So way lower than the national average. Iie might still have more people than the average city willing to, I don't know, let someone attach a bomb to their neck to make, to make themselves some extra cash. Now that we know a little more about the setting of today's episode, let's learn a bit about Brian. He attended East High School in Erie and then dropped out during the sophomore year in 1973. He failed algebra in Spanish, earned Ds in English, science and geography. His only A was in swimming. So super strong swimmer, not strong in, well, anything else. If there were any famous alumni

also coming out of the high school he went to, a school that has since been converted to a middle school, the internet does not seem to know about them. Brian worked as the mechanic after dropping out, but was only modestly capable of working that field according to the New York Times profile. As an adult, Brian would never own a computer, never really know how to use the internet, pretty simple guy,

spent most of the 10 years before his death, working as a pizza delivery driver. Around 2001, he moved Arizona for a while to live with his younger brother, and work at a carnival. He was placed in charge of keeping the fun house mirrors clean. It was a good gig. Paid 130K a year. Plus insurance and a matching 401K. After just a few days, he was fired for thinking he had become trapped in a maze. He freaked out and smashed a bunch of mirrors to find the exit. He did not work at carnival. I'm pretty sure they don't pay that much. He went to work with Carnival. I'm pretty sure they don't pay that much.

He went to work with his brother, that his brother's tool and die shop. I was just hoping for a second, so he'd be like, holy shit, that's a lot of fucking money to clean fun house mirrors. He went to work with his brother's brothers, that he had a tool and die shop,

and then the shop closed down, and he moved back to Erie in less than a year. Brian's friends told the times he was never rich, but that he lived his Spartan existence with few complaints. At the time of the robbery, Brian was renting a cottage behind the home of his land lady, Linda Payne. He lived there for about five years at the time of his death.

Linda told the team for the 2018 Netflix docu series Evil Genius, the true story of America's most diabolical bank heist, the Brian was a good tenant. Always paid his rent on time, seemed happy living alone there with his cats When Brian got into a car accident the damn his car badly enough that he couldn't work He told his landlady he would rather be homeless to move back in with his mom and then Linda helped Brian buy a car for 1800 bucks, so he could keep his piss pizza delivery job and he did actually finish paying her back the week before he died Then to say that he was proud. He'd never accept the food we offered him, except maybe a cookie.

Linda also said in another interview, material things weren't important to him. Regarding his car, a Geometro, he thought the Geohad flashy hubcaps. They were too flashy for him, so he took them off. He might have been the only dude in history to ever think that any part of a Geo Metro was flashy. Brian was described by many as a loner, he was also courteous and gentle according to

acquaintances, kind of a person who smiled and waived to people on the street. I like to chat with his neighbors about the show Survivor, Mystery Novels, and randomly lawnmower engines. I feel like it'd be easier to find people to talk about the first two subjects there, but who knows? Maybe Erie was fucking filled with lawnmower engine enthusiasts. Although we had no interest in living with their brine still had a weekly stake dinner with his mom on Sundays, leading up to his death, and sometimes he would take his mom and

his mom's friend out to the movies or go watch a free outdoor concert in town Everyone interviewed who knew Brian said that there was no way he could have plotted the bank heist They believe he was either forced or tricked into participating Brian was described by some who knew him as a childlike person One individual told the New York Times that Brian was frankly too simple to come up with the heist Brian did like scavenger hunts He tried to do the local papers, Key Hunt, which led readers, led readers to different landmarks in the county, but Brian was never able to complete the scavenger hunts.

Must've been fucking terrified when he had to complete the scavenger hunt that his life literally depended on in this final moment. Brian also liked to gamble according to Linda Payne's statements. Overall, Brian seemed like a simple guy who enjoyed his simple life, so why would someone like that try to steal $250,000 from a bank?

Was Brian Wells an innocent victim of the pizza bomber heist or involved somehow? Let's see if we can find out. When we now cover the pizza bomber, heist story, in detail, in today's timeline. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time-sub-time line. in today's timeline. August 28, 2003. The day Brian Wells, well, kind of fucking blew up a little bit.

Brian's day started off normal. He jogged for about 15 minutes after eating some cinnamon sugar toast, knocking back a few Capri Suns. He ran around his house about five times at a full sprint. He worked a heavy back, some 12-ounce gloves for a few rounds before doing a bit of yoga while watching three's company. He licked each of his cats clean, took a dump in their litter box, and then moonwalked into a Geometro.

Of course, that's nonsense. I just like imagining that that ridiculous sequence of events would be someone's normal morning routine. Just fucking every morning, every morning I get up, I have my capray sons, I have my cinema sugar toast, I sprint around the house, I have a back yoga, three company, I fucking shit in the litter box, I can't leave my house unless I complete that sequence of events. Here's what he actually did. He bought breakfast at McDonald's or bought, I say,

brought, he bought breakfast at McDonald's. Be, I'd be a weird morning routine if you would bring, okay, I get up, I bring my breakfast at McDonald's. I like to eat it around other people. Oh, no, he buys breakfast at McDonald's, picks up a newspaper, drives to work in that flashy ass geometra of his, like a real show off. He worked at Mama Mia's Pizza Rea, which was located in the strip mall on Peach Street just after 1.30

PM shop owner Tony Dittomo. Tony Dittomo! Answer the phone and took a delivery order for two small pepperoni pizzas. The caller said they were part of a construction crew. The address they gave was located down a dirt road leading to a massive TV tower belonging to a local CBS affiliate about four miles from the shop. It was a small building by the tower that stayed unoccupied most days according to investigators. The Tomo had trouble fully understanding some with the other person and the line was saying so he gave the phone to Brian and then Brian was

able to write out directions to get to the tower and he headed out with the pizzas. It was later determined that this call came from a shell gas station near the tower and later all share who seemed to do a place that call as we start peeling off more and more layers the heist onion. Soon after heading out to make the delivery Brian Robb the PNC bank in Summettown Center, a shopping center just south of Erie. I've actually spent a few afternoons in a coffee shop in that center working on some stand-up bits had no clue. Any of this should happen when I did.

The FBI established in an affidavit that Brian entered the bank at 2.20pm, a teller called 911, 12 minutes later, 232pm to report the robbery. Security footage shows Brian entering the bank with an odd looking cane and collar bomb around his neck, which was hidden by a white t-shirt with the word guess written on it with a marker. The cane was actually a modified shotgun. Brian handed the teller a note with instructions demands for $250,000 in cash. Lamont King, a now retired corporal with the Pennsylvania state police, received information about the PNC bank being robbed by a man wearing a collar bomb shortly after that 911 call was placed and he and some other officers were dispatched to the bank.

Witnesses at the bank described Brian's demeanor as calm during the robbery. He stood in line briefly before he walked around the customer, gave the note to the teller, even reached into a basket and got out of fucking lollipop. Why not? Might as well enjoy a sucker while you robbing a bank with an explosive device locked your body. Then when he left, a witness said he walked out quote like Charlie Chaplin swinging the bag in the cane gun according to a FBI agent.

Seemed pretty fucking pleased with himself. Ryan left the bank, stopped the McDonald's next door, picked up a second note, then started to drive down Peach Tree, but didn't make it very far. Police units arrived, saw his vehicle pulled him over in the parking lot of eyeglass world next to McDonald's. He'd only made it a few hundred feet from the bank before he was apprehended. State troopers got Brian out of the vehicle, handcuffed him.

Then he said something about having a bomb on him. A state trooper approached, cut his shirt with scissors, revealing the collar bomb around his neck. According to retired trooper Le Mans King, the general consensus was that it was a fake bomb, but they were still treating like it was real. They sure were watching police cam footage from one of the vehicles of them cutting Brian shirt or maybe his local TV like a station footage. They acted like they 100% thought it was real when they got a good look at it. Those dudes hustled their asses off to get the fuck away from that guy.

I mean, can't blame him. King arrived in the scene when Brian was already cuffed. Brian was speaking to the police calmly, saying things like, can you at least take these freaking handcuffs off? It's going to go off. Why is it no one's trying to come get this thing off of me? Well, probably because they don't want to get fucking blown up. Local news crews were also the scene in addition

to the police as I kind of referenced there and they recorded Brian's final moments which were presented in the evil genius documentary. And I watched him literally get exploded and it is as intense as you might imagine. I'd expect. Trooper King noticed that Brian seemed nervous but not agitated before he died. He seemed very concerned about getting the collar off, but not until it started beeping a few minutes

before he died. King later reflecting on it all said he didn't think Brian thought the bomb was real until it was about to explode. King thinks that he probably appeared relatively carefree prior to the beeping because he didn't really actually think his life was in danger. So someone tricked this guy and put in real bomb around his neck. As soon as the police realized there was a bomb they called the Erie bomb squad, but they were over 10 miles away. In order to protect the public, the police closed down Peachtree immediately, which created some traffic issues that delayed the bomb squad's arrival. Trooper King learned that Brian worked for Mama Mia's pizza rhea shortly before he died. And he sent officers over to do some interviews,

to get some intel. Brian's co-workers confirmed that they saw him leave the shop to deliver two pizzas to an unoccupied radio tower. King then sent officers over to the tower to investigate. Brian told King and the other troopers that a group of black men jumped him and locked the collar bomb around his neck, then forced him to rob the bank. King's gut immediately told him, uh, Brian's not telling the truth here. He's lying. Brian said he was supposed to follow directions that would lead him to different keys to unlock the bomb's collar apparatus that kept it attached to his neck. Brian was captured on video saying he pulled the key out and started a timer.

I heard the thing ticking when he did it. Brian never described his alleged assailants in any detail and did not identify them before he died. When the bomb started beeping, as I mentioned, Brian's demeanor immediately changed. He started to say, maybe you can get the keys to get out of this thing. I don't know if I have enough time now. I'm not lying. He asked the troopers to go to the next sight and the scavenger hunt for him, try and get the keys to unlock the bomb. And then moments later, he died on camera in dramatic fashion. And his final moments, Brian sat handcuffed on the ground, surrounded by police officers, still pointing guns at him.

The bomb continued beeping, starting to beep faster. Brian's warning the police is going to go off, right? The bomb is beating faster and faster. And about 10 seconds, you know, after it really starts speeding up, it detonates fatally wounding wells. Trooper King said when officers rushed towards his body following the detonation, his eyes just got real wide, then they went to the back of his head and that was the end of him. He was dead in seconds.

Tom Stankewitch, eerie bomb squad commander, said they received word the bomb had already detonated when they were about four blocks away. But the bomb squad approached Brian. You know, they saw he was already deceased. Part of the bomb was still around his neck. The bomb squad checked his body and vehicle for more bombs before proceeding. And then, you know, notes are found in Brian's car. A bunch of notes, full of instructions. They provided directions and rules for the scavenger hunt that was supposed to lead Brian to the keys that would save his life. There were more notes in the bank

that he had left. And total Brian had nine pages of notes. Somewhere for Brian, others were for the bank manager and staff, one was for the police. Based on information, the notes, King and other officers quickly went to the next location to see if they could capture anyone responsible for putting the bomb on Brian. Well, Brian's notes demanded $250,000. In the end, he only walked away with $8,702. That was quickly recovered. So we got just a little less.

It was hoping for and didn't make it quite as far from the bank as he had planned. Let's not take a look at these letters. Right after today's mid-show, sponsor break. Thanks for sticking around. Now let's examine the notes Brian Wells brought to the bank he robbed. We'll start with the note of instructions written

specifically for Brian. I feel like the right background music, you know, we're really kind of increased the intensity of these letters, so allow me to play a little of that. Let's talk about some rules. You must follow a course of instructions of the fine keys combination goes to design the bomb. Do not have certain keys in the keyhole, but tell instructions. Some keyholes were booby trapped. To prevent tampering. Drive 60 miles per hour, surround the course.

You'd only two or three minutes each stop. Well, send for you'll be watching or each stop to a year you're now being followed. Don't do that crazy. Ha ha ha. I'll stop. I know that's probably super fucking annoying. But it makes me laugh every time to think about a new listener

hearing me do that and just thinking, when the fuck would he think that that music plus that voice would add value to what he is reading that is so tonally off? More appropriate music now for the notes. Four. Bomb has trip wires, forcing or tampering will detonate. 4. Bomb has trip wires, forcing or tampering will detonate. 5. All weapons papers, containers, tapes, etc. must be returned to us. Each item you find after dropping money has a key and or combination work. You will need to decipher the combination.

This will disarm some trip wires before you unlock. This procedure is to make sure you leave no materials behind. Bring note, container, and tape with you. And here's another note found at Brian's car that was intended for him. Baumhostage. You are to go to PNC Bank at Summittown Center on Peach Street. Quietly give the following demand notes to a receptionist or bank manager. Do not cause a alarm. Get retired money and delivered to a get retired money and delivered to a specified location by following notes Price was be required

That you will collect as you race against time Each note leads to the next note and key until finished You will collect several keys and a combination to remove bomb after police won't charge you because you were a hostage most important rule, do not radio, phone or contact anyone. Alerting authorities, your company or anyone else will bring your death. If we spot police vehicles or aircraft, you will be killed. This little bit of info pushes me more towards thinking that Brian believed the bomb was fake. I would initially apprehended by the police, he does not seem to panic at all.

Not like someone might have if they truly thought someone was going to detonate remotely the bomb if any cops showed up. You know, maybe he just wanted to believe the bomb was fake. I'm just hoping that he believed that in his final, well, before his beeping final moments. This powerful booby trap bomb can be removed only by following our instructions. Using time attempting to escape, it will fail and leave you short of time to follow instructions. Do not delay. You have less than 55 minutes until detonation. Spend no more than 20 minutes in bank.

You will need 25 minutes travel time. You have a safety margin less than 10 minutes. Use all remaining time to retrieve and obey our instructions. You will gain additional time by finding the first of several keys. As you follow our instructions, you'll be given all keys and combinations after the money is received and safely counted. We will leave keys and combination as you progress. And this further pushes me more towards think of Brian, believe the bomb was fake. Maybe the people who put it on his neck lied to him. But they did lie about being able to gain additional time when the bomb components were examined

it was clear that the device was not sophisticated enough to be affected by a remote. A fake phone was attached to the bomb and not connected to shit. The timers were just kitchen timers. There was no way to add time to this type of explosive device. If you delay, disobey, or alert anyone, you will die. It is your choice to live or bring death. If you do not obey and leave bank without money, you will die. So will others.

Stay calm and do as instructed to survive. We're following your moves and cars to make sure you obey. Three centuries are driving and looking out for authorities. We are scanning police radio frequencies and cell phone calls. If police or aircraft are involved, you will be destroyed. Allerting authorities or anyone else will prevent you from completing the mission. Go to the bank and quietly enter with the weapon you were given. Give the demands to the receptionist or manager.

Avoid panicking the tellers or customers. Use the weapon if anyone does not cooperate or attempts to leave the bank. Weapon instructions are near the trigger. You must deliver money alone. You must return all weapons, notes to us. Turn yourself in to bank and police after we release you to safety. Act now, think later, or you will die. And on the following page, step number one, proceed now.

Take the following demands to PNC Bank and get $250,000. Instruct bank managers to help or else everyone will be killed. Enforce demands with your weapon and bomb. Two, put $250,000 in black garbage bag. Leave your driver's license at the bank and promise to return. Then return money to us by following a course of instructions. You will receive further instructions as you proceed. Why would he be instructed to leave his driver's license at the place where he just committed a robbery?

Right? Because they knew he would never come back, I'm guessing, like they would be dead. The heist masterminds must have just wanted authority to know, you know, who did it? If he got blown up in a way where it was impossible to identify his exploded remains, I'm guessing. Do not leave bank without money or you will die. Carry out money in the trash bag and follow instructions. Stay close to bank manager or employees at all times are in robbery. Bring yellow striped copies with you. You must bring weapon with you. Stay close to bank manager or employees at all times are in robbery. Bring yellow strived copies with you. You must bring weapon with you.

Exit the bank with the money and go to the McDonald's restaurant. Get out of car and go to the small sign reading Drive Through Open 24 hours. In the flower bed by the sign, there is a rock with a note taped to the bottom. It has your next instructions. Then below that section is a little sketch of the sign with the bottom. It has your next instructions. Then below that section is a little sketch of the sign with the rock. If you can't find all instructions, alt drop sequence. Use only an emergency, maybe deadly. Route 90, park eastbound, next to countryside trailer park, take everything, walk to Groobert Overpass. Warning, find notes before, then there's a little arrow pointing to

the section above. We are following you and watching it all stops. If you do not go to the bank, we will detonate. If anyone follows or interferes, we may leave and allow timers to detonate, or call cell phone detonator. During the exchange, you may be required to identify one of our vehicles, a green coupe, and we will then remove front hubcaps. Co-op right quickly and you will survive. We have gone to great lengths in planning and designing keys to unlock bomb to ensure that you may survive.

There is only one way you can survive and that is to cooperate completely. There was a note attest that rock in McDonald's. Brian found that just before he died, and that said, Leave McDonald's from the rear and drive behind it around the side of eyeglass world. Stop at Peachtreeat. And that's what he did right before he died. Important, you must get out and tie the orange tape taped on bomb case around the fire hydrant at Peachtree to signal that you have money and left the bank. Two, go south on Peachtreeat, Take right 90 west for 2 miles. At interchange 178 take 79 north

for 2 and 1 quarter miles. At exit 180, pull to the side of the off ramp and stop next to the yellow traffic light. Warning sign. There's a sketch sign. Sorry, the way this is written is weird. Go directly across the grass to the right and into the woods. The container with the orange tape has your next instructions. Three. Place all notes, containers, and tapes and the money bag and proceed. And then the bottom half of the page is a map. Leave note container and tape with money. Excuse me, I feel like they did expect him to make it that far, right? Maybe far enough to get them the money, perhaps. Seems like a pretty fucking stupid plan, right?

I mean, once he had the money, why make him stop very close to the bank to get to the next clue? Now, why would you just let him get out of there as fast as possible? Drive to the next location, out of the woods or something, without the money out first, then bounce the next place to get a key

that doesn't exist and get blown up. I will reveal later a part of the plan not written about the notes that does not go according to plan regarding quickly getting conspirators to robbery money. I think this was all written to throw investigators off. And then there was a note addressed to the bank manager that said, bank manager, important to go to vault now, ensure all people remain quiet and calm, prevent anyone from alarming authorities or contacting outside, close bank.

All people remain inside until complete. Act fast or bomb-hostages time will be exhausted. We may detonate bomb at any time, if police are seen. Resistance will be met with the following. 1. The bomb. We will detonate bomb with cell phone, where its timer will detonate in minutes if we don't receive our demands, or any of us is obstructed.

The bomb has more than 10 booby traps, and can only be disarmed and removed by finding and following our instructions and keys. 2. Retaliate To ensure money is delivered at a safe return to our apartment in one hour, sentry number 3 has tracked several customers and employees from your bank to their homes. He will sniper or bomb their residents if we do not receive the money. We will then continue assaults until much greater demands millions are met.

During that time, banks reputation and revenue will decline as we notify the press that people are getting hurt because you did not cooperate. That part is fucking weird to me. Like he has to explain to them like how business works. Listen, if you have to spend more millions, well, that's less money for your bank's profit. That's not good. And also to say, I don't know if you know this, but if we have to sniper and bomb some of your co-workers, their murders are going to be the least your problems, bud. Your bank's reputation and revenue, also going to

take some bullets. Like, why did they think that telling the bank manager that fucking snipers and assassins with bombs monitoring several employees and customers would not be enough of a threat? Like, why did they feel the need to add the revenue and reputation bullshit? I just, I don't know, that part reads pretty amateurish to me. ...

Use no ink bombs, markings, tracking, locating device, or any other security measures. We will screen for these and if found, we'll make us detonate bomb. Define Guarantees' death and revenge. We are using scanners and other detection methods to verify the money is clear. Channels are monitoring for police calls. We will detonate if the authorities are involved. Myself, wife, and partner are following centuries to ensure compliance.

After receiving money, we will provide bomb hostage with the location of the final key and combination to the disarm and remove bomb. Wait one hour after bomb hostage returns, do contact police or we will one bomb or to retaliate. I like how whoever wrote this mentions their wife, that's so fucking funny to me. So weird in the bank robbery note. Hey bud, don't think of pulling a funny business. Not only am I watching you as is my bank robbing partner, but also my wife is helping keep an eye on things.

Like that's gonna add weight to the note. Oh fuck, his wife is helping. This motherfucker is serious about the robbery. Like who would you add to a bank robbery note to just be needlessly ridiculous? And also, my second cousin will be watching. My grandmother's bridge partner will be keeping an eye on things.

And another thing, my step-sister's nephew will be not taking his eye off of you. His one eye, he's lost the other one in a fire. Don't ask him about it. Jumping back into the real note now. If police radio, APB roadblocks use aircraft or in any way try to interfere with us, we will detonate by phone or allow timer to detonate.

This event must not become public knowledge and featured on news or we will to detonate. This event must not become public knowledge and feature on news, or we will, too, retaliate. Like how he has to add that, too. Now, gather employees with access codes to vault and work fast to fill bag with $250,000. You have only 15 minutes. No matter what bomb hostage must not leave bank without money, cooperate fully in bomb hostage, customers and employees will be safe. Do not slow the bomb hostage progress, or he will die. Cooperate fully in bomb hostage, customers and employees will be safe. Do not slow the bomb hostage's progress, or he will die. Cooperate fully in no one we had hurt. Proceed now to vault. Time is running out. Read other pages later.

Whoever was orc straighting all this, uh, didn't think those instructions were enough for the bank manager, and they wrote another fucking note. Bank manager, summary. No alarm, panic or police, closed doors. Everyone was must remain in bank or we will explode bomb and later assault your associates and customers. We are monitoring everything. You now have only 15 minutes to comply. I had the only head 15 minutes earlier.

Attempting to stop us will explode bomb. There's no possible way to disarm it. Complight with demand A or B, bomb hostage will use remaining time to follow instructions that he will receive as he proceeds to deliver money. Money will be inspected before we give him keys in combination. If we are prevented from receiving or using money or see here any police or aircraft, we will one, bomb, and two, retaliate. Lice to say retaliate.

If we are safe, you are safe. Bomb hostage will return safe after delivering. Do not contact authorities until one hour after bomb hostage returns. Or we will, too, retaliate. Demands. Bomb hostage must deliver one of the following amount to us, depending on your available funds. Safe bills only. We will screen for dipax, transmitters, and any security devices before releasing bomb hostage. Use Plan A only if you do not have more funds available.

A. $150,000. $150,000, $50,000, $20,000, $50,000, prevents only one bomb to save bomb hostage, but we will to retaliate. And there's B. $250,000. $250,000, $100,000, and $100,000 accepted prevents both bomb and retaliate. Actually, one bomb and two guarantees everyone's safety. That's such a weird thing. It's a, you could listen, here's how this is gonna play out. You can give us $180,000, but then we will fucking still retaliate, but the bomb won't go off.

Or you can give it $250,000, like what a weird like segmented situation there. Listen, you can give us $50,000, and we're gonna fucking kill everyone you know, all right? You can give us $40,000, we're gonna kill fucking two of your cousins, but after that, we're gonna like kind of chill out for a while. You can give us $135,000. I'm gonna make you suck my dick. And I'm gonna fucking kill one of your kids. But that's it. Like, what a weird just fuck, I don't understand why it's not just the one thing or or not. Anyway, detailed instructions follow in the next page important to time it is crucial. Quietly get assistance and go to vault while continuing. And then he repeats that thing from earlier,

act now, think later, or you will die. He loved that. This motherfucker, or these motherfuckers, love writing notes. Doesn't he feel like that was way more info than was necessary? Like easy on the word retaliate. The note author loves to mention two, retaliate. Also, they, uh, they really expect this bank manager to care a lot about the life of the bomb hostage. This next note uh these guys wrote a fucking book. This one's for the

receptionist. Receptionist. Do you not cause panic or many people will be killed. Sounding any alarm will interrupt this action and guarantee injuries and death. Involving authorities this point will get the hostage and other people killed. Immediately, without causing alarm, you must contact the bank manager in private. The Bama Hosters must accompany you, give manager the following demands. Bama is expertly booby trapped and cannot be disarmed in time until keys are found by following the instructions immediately. Bama Hosters needs less than 20 minutes in bank and 30 minutes to deliver.

No money, no keys. If anyone of us has stopped or apprehended, we will detonate bomb or its timer will run out. We will, surprise, retaliate if interrupted. And then yet a fucking another note, this one addressed to the police. Police. If other alert police too soon, we will won! Retaliate!

That used to be two, not one. But you may still say bomb hostage. To do so, all police vehicles aircraft must stand down and assemble all units at the specified location. Country fair and eyeglasses and eyeglasses world parking lots. No lights. Vehicles face away from the road. Light three flares and place next to fire hydrant at eyeglass world to indicate full cooperation. I love three and so one.

Stop no traffic in Erie County during this time. On nearby units must gather at this location. For every 15 units we count, we will spare one retaliation target. You can be sure it is in our best interests to act upon and maintain our future credibility regarding these matters. Important. No surveillance aircraft. We must be allowed to continue our board the bomb hostage will die. After completion this event must not be reported to the public by any media or other means.

If officials discuss this case with the public or members of the press, we will, can you guess, retaliate? We have, it's number two this time now. We have prepared an ambush for police vehicles that attempt to follow the bomb hostage. You can only protect the bomb hostage and everyone else by staying clear. Our team is in radio contact. If any of us is stopped or apprehended the bomb, we'll detonate. If bomb hostage is delayed for more than 10 minutes, he will not have enough time to continue.

Our team is spent combined seven and a half years in prison perfecting this plan. Do not think you can outsmart us in less than one hour. Save bomb hostage and people targeted for retaliation by standing down. Bomb hostage must be alone and use no radios or cell phones. Do not follow. All units must go to specify location and stand down

to allow bomb hostage to continue, then return alive. Interrupting this progress in any way we use up his delivery time and get him killed. Bomb cannot be disarmed it has more than 10 trip wires and any of three timers will detonate it. They cannot be stopped. The only ways to remove it from a hostage and allow it to detonate in the safe area we have arranged. Attempting to open and remove the bomb will detonate it. They can only be removed by disarming the trip wires, then removing it with a combination of special keys. We can't provide those if we are stopped or tracked. We have planned for dozens of contingencies to ensure we are not followed or tracked, stopping or tracking any one of us or hostage

will cause the rest of us to one bomb and to retaliate. Bomb hostage will be instructed how to filter an electronically screen for tracking security devices. It found he cannot deliver and then Bama will explode, cooperate fully, and no one will get hurt. If nothing else, these bank robbers plan the noteworthy portion of the heist. More thoroughly than any bank robbers before them in all of fucking human history. I feel like they wrote more for this one robbery than all of the prohibition era bank robbers before them in all of fucking human history. I feel like they wrote more for this

one robbery than all of the prohibition error bank robbing gangsters combined. Okay, this next note, yes, we're still not done. This one's just for anyone who just, I guess, works at the bank. A additional note. Our enforcement policy, bomb hostage was provided with weapons to enforce cooperation. The bank note has the life of the bomb hostage to customer and employee safety, its reputation and legal liability in its hands. Success option. You must assist bomb hostage and follow instructions exactly. Avoid outside involvement until the bomb hostage returns to turn himself in.

This will save the bomb hostage and prevent. To retaliate. Greater complications will bring greater demands. So keep this simple. Be smart. Failure option. If we have not returned to our apartment with the money demanded, the bomb hostage will die. Others involved will be dead or hurt. Your customers will be attacked. I thought this was for the customers. I guess this is for anybody. And the press and customers will condemn you. Attacks will continue until million dollar demands are met.

The most certain way to fail is to contact police prematurely. If we ever see, hear, smell, police or aircraft. We will one, I bet you can get bombed. You must wait one hour after the bomb hostage returns to alert authorities, or we will two, hmm, retaliate. The press must not broadcast this event. Our descriptions or rewards must not be posted anywhere.

No one must copy our method. Investigations must not cross state lines. These rules will be enforced with two, retaliate, which may also include members of the press and more. I'm not fucking kill everybody guys. Time is running out so don't be foolish. Total compliance is the only option that can be safely achieved Knowing that the money is insured should make your choices clear and then a section called the troublemakers

PS if any of you fuck up this robbery it will be our lives mission to fuck up your lives We have followed your customers and employees home. We know where your families live It is most important that you wait until bomb-hospers returns before calling police and provide as much money as you can meet Ardemand. If Valdasnab being opened by now, you are using a Bommahost's safety margin and he may die. We may detonate bomb if he spends too much

more than 20 minutes in bank. It's crazy me that they act like they know we're just random customers who might happen to be there like where their families would live. It's me that would be a tip of like, this is fucking nonsense, this is fucking nonsense. This is all nonsense. Um, but I guess the bomb was real.

And then finally, fucking finally, finally, finally. One last note, written to the bank's custodian. Because why not? Custodian, what you need to do. Keep the floor clean, but make sure it is not wet. Not dirty, but also not wet. If you don't want us to retaliate, a two retaliate. A clean floor will expedite the bank robbing process

and help ensure the bomb hostage is survival by giving him more time to find life-saving keys. A wet floor though, boy howdy. That could spell disaster for many. If the bomb hostage should slip and fall due to too much slippery cleaning solution and or water and or too much dust or filth and what not, we will too retaliate. We will too retaliate so fucking hard you don't even know.

Our two retaliation will make all of the world's previous two retaliators seem like sweet little fucking baby boys you always kiss their mommy's on their cheeks and always chuk their father's hands firmly but not aggressively while making an appropriate amount of respectful eye contact. If we must to retaliate, due to unnecessary filth or slipperiness due to too much or not enough cleaning, we will be forced to detonate one. The bomb and our sentries and snipers will kill fucking everyone you've ever met in your whole goddamn life except for you, janitor.

We're gonna let you live to think about what you've done, and it's gonna haunt you for the rest of your days. Back now, think later, or you will die, janitor. Not physically though, spiritually, and probably mentally. You will be reduced to nothing more than a whimpering fool whose last intelligible words will be please, no more, too, retaliating. I have been too retaliated to death. All right, so maybe they didn't write that fucking last note to the custodian, but they did write all the other notes. Okay, now with Brian Wells-Dad, these notes found in Brian's

car, investigators hand, the investigation into who put the bomb on Brian begins. What kind of retaliatory bastards were up to this? And it starts off a jurisdictional nightmare. The ATF thought it should be their investigation because the bomb was involved. Local law enforcement felt it was their crime to solve because of where the crime occurred and the FBI thought it was their investigation because of the robbery. In the end, the FBI would lead the investigation with local law enforcement and ATF assisting. Before lead agent Jerry Clark took over for the FBI, the bomb squad on the scene went to the next site in the scavenger hunt and found the next clue inside a coffee can close to

a stoplight warning sign. Brian was supposed to drive from interchange road to 79 South near the McKean township exit. At the next site, the police found orange tape tied to a tree with the word Vietnam written on it. As they're looking at the site, they saw a minivan approaching them. From the other side of a field, it appears that the occupants were surprised to see the police, driver stopped, backed up, spun around, and fled. And the police were not able to catch up due to the distance between their vehicle and this other one. So did whoever was in that minivan plan on letting the bomb take Brian out there and then take the money. Take a minute now to meet three more lead investigators

who will be referenced throughout the episode. We've already met Lamont King, who was one of the first responding state troopers. Now a special agent, Jerry Clark, again, lead investigator for the FBI in the pizza bomber case. Clark retired from the FBI in 2011 after the conclusion of the pizza bomber case, not coincidentally, I'm sure. He followed it through until the very end and then moved on to something else. He worked in law enforcement for a total of 27 years. In addition to the FBI, he worked for the DEA

and the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. Clark has a PhD in criminology and public service leadership from Capella University, currently employed as an associate professor and chair of the Criminal Justice Department in Gannon University in Erie, as far as we can tell. Also president and owner of Fisher Security, a division of Jerry Clark Enterprises. 2003, Jason Wick had been an ATF agent since 1989.

He worked several high profile cases, including the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center and the Downing of United Airlines Flight 93 on 9-11. Age of WIC would work as an ATF agent for 25 years. He is currently an assistant professor of criminalistics and faculty representative for athletics at Ganon University as well. Criminalistics defined as scientific tests or techniques used in connection with the detection of crime.

Before moving on, maybe I just had John Wick on the brain too much lately, but doesn't the name Jason Wick conjure up an image of John's maybe less impressive brother? Like John Wick can walk out of a room unarmed where 20 trained killers have just tried to take him out all the same time. Wick can almost win a game of dodgeball, played against junior high kids. Like, he'll make it to the last three or four players, you know, he's kind of quick,

but someone always fucking blast him while he distracted throwing at somebody else. He's a nice guy. He's a great guy. He just doesn't have John's, you know, reflexes and composure. Next up, Pennsylvania State trooper, Sergeant David Gluth also asked to join the FBI investigation and I don't really know anything else about him. I'm sure he's an awesome guy. Just not a lot of info out there about Gluth beyond his involvement in this case. So sorry Dave. On the 9th of August 28th, the day Brian died, Agent Jerry Clark drafted an affidavit with

the US Attorney's Office and investigator search Brian's home. They found no physical evidence linking Brian to the bombing, but did find an address book with the names and phone numbers of local sex workers in it. And that is probably why he didn't want to live with mom, which is fair. This discovery sets the investigation back by about six months. Investigators felt it necessary to call every single name on the list.

Then spend a lot of time with each of the ladies really gets known, trying to see what kind of information they could get from them once the sex workers truly believed they were just not their paying client. And not a member of law enforcement. Or that didn't happen. Or that idea would probably not be approved by anyone in the department except maybe one guy who's close to retirement and wants to see what he can get away with. Brian's body was transported to the corner's office around 3 a.m.

because the collar bomb will be the main piece of evidence in this case. The corner's office decides to do a surgical decapitation of Brian. Erie County deputy corner, correct, Timon said in 2018, when interviewed for Netflix is, you know, evil genius, docu series, it was probably still is the most difficult decision I've ever made. It was done in a way that was, I mean, it's difficult to describe, but it was done in a very caring way. That is a weird way to describe, cut some of these head off.

With the help of the state police, the FBI still tracing Brian's last steps found tire impressions that indicated Brian's vehicle was at the TV tower. Also found Brian's shoe impressions and a scuff mark in the dirt there, which indicated a struggle. Perhaps struggle as they put on the collar. Maybe had second thoughts. Maybe he never agreed to have that role in the heist. The FBI tried to find forensic evidence on Brian's body, such as DNA and fingerprints,

but no luck. Just three days later, August 31st, Brian Wells' friend and coworker, 43-year-old Robert Panetti, dies from a drug overdose. Suspicious timing, obviously considering the circumstances. Panetti refused medical assistance around 5 a.m. on the day he died, and then his family found him unresponsive in a bed a few hours later. Robert had a history of substance abuse, according to Lebanon and Pennsylvania as the daily news. Preliminary testing showed methadone and volume type drugs in his system. When the coroner's office learned who Pinede was,

they pulled back set up a perimeter to look for evidence that might have connected his death to Brian's according to Deputy Corner, Timon. Further testing determined that Robert Pinede overdosed on methadone and any depressants mixed with cold medicine. Pinede had just become an important subject in the investigation before he died. For his death, he was nervous looking for protection because he was worried about the robbery masterminds, thinking they were going to come for him next according to state police investigator David Gluth. FBI agents met with Robert at the Pizzeria, tried to interview him, but he was working,

and he asked to move the interview to Monday, September 1st. Brian's landlady, Linda Payne, told evil genius that Brian liked to gamble with Pinedi. She wondered if the two, or at least one of them, might have suddenly needed money badly enough to rob a bank. A week later, on September 8th, 2003, investigators pursuing evidence to corroborate Brian's claims of being worried about other robbers search an apartment in eerie The resident of this apartment was a man whose girlfriend claims she knew Brian Wells His name was never released to the public and he was never charged in relation to the case

According to agent Clark, they're so-called prostitute team Which was created because of Brian's notebook looked into this man because he was in a relationship with a sex worker He also had a history of some military background with explosives. FBI also had a mama me as pizza rea team. That's the fucking team to be on the mama. He has pizza to your team. There was a best getting disgruntled former employee who threatened shop owner Tony the Tomal. They described this former employee as having an alibi. A lot of these teams. I wonder how many of their teams they had.. Quick little roll call everybody before we start the meeting. We'll make sure everybody's here, make sure all the teams are here. Prostitution team. Check. Mama me is P2RiA team. Uh, here. PNC Bank team. Check. There might be more clues in McDonald's team.

Who's taking Brian's mom and her friends to take now team? Cheek. Keep an eye on Brian's three cats team. Go into dive bars to see if anyone's bragging about putting bombs on any of those people's next team. All right, looks like we have all the teams here. That's great. Also on September 8th, the FBI released sketches of two men who were acting suspiciously around the time of Brian's death. One of them was wearing a backpack, trying to cross a busy road.

The other man was quote, running feverishly from a wooded area. That is suspicious when you see somebody running feverishly from a wooded area. One of the locations Brian was supposed to stop out was close to where these two men were seen. Meanwhile, other investigators were working on analyzing the color bomb. The ATF put the bomb back together, but they could not match any specific tools to the bomb as far as exactly what was used to build it. ATF agent Jason Wick, I keep thinking about him playing dodgeball, explain that bomb makers often throw tools away and try not to purchase materials to make bombs if necessary, using what they already have or what others around them have, you know, kind of line around instead.

Investigators determined that the case and color components would have taken somebody around a full month to assemble. According to Wick, there were red herrings incorporated into the device designed to prevent the bomb squad from tampering with it, such as meaningless wires and a plastic cell phone with no purpose. He said in that docu-series, the device was fairly

sophisticated. Although at the end of the day, it was just two pipe bombs and two timers. Another component of the bomb was a back plate that was scoured to create shrapnel. The plate fractured when the bomb detonated but didn't actually shrapnel. It caused a large rune of Brian's chest about an inch deep, forming an eight by ten square. Didn't blow him up in the way that was intended, but enough to kill him.

Agent Wicks said about the bomb of the four keyholes that were only two locks keeping the device locked around his neck. So if he would have recovered two of the keys, yes, he could have unlocked the device. But I don't believe he was ever going to find those keys. I believe he was meant to die that day. Investigators now wanted to determine if they would be able to complete the route described in the scavenger hunting time. They chose the same day of the week, same time of day, same weather conditions and drove the route and determined that there was no way in hell. Brian could have finished that route in time, like not even close. Also based on margins and indentations, investigators believe the notes were typed and then traced over to make matching handwriting difficult.

So whoever orchestrated this actually did think of a lot of shit to throw investigators to throw them off their trail. 12 days later, September 20, 2003, a man named William Rosteen calls 911 to report that there is a dude inside his garage freezer. And this body is connected to Brian's death. It's about to get real weird. Dispatcher, state police, what's your emergency? Rostin at 8655 P street in the garage, there's a frozen body. It's in the freezer. There's a woman there you might want to pick up in question. It's in the freezer. There's a woman there you might want to pick up in question 8645 peach treat. Yes. How do you know that sir?

Trust me. I know Who are you? I'm the guy who lives there What is your name sir Bill Ross team and what is her name? Marjorie deal Marjorie deals at the residence now Yes, who is she to you sir? I'll give you guys my story later on. And that's it. How mysterious. If I'm a detective, I just got real excited. It's like a real-life game of fucking clue now. I'm about, uh, you know, ready to make my guess and

try and win. Who put the frozen body in the Rossine house? Marjorie deal. I just gotta find out what weapons she used. State trooper Ron Morgan received word about Bill Rossine's call. He knew Bill fairly well. He was the best man at a family wedding. Bill informed him that the police needed to arrest Marjorie because she killed the man in the freezer and wanted him to put the body in either a woodchipper or a meat grinder, but he refused. Bill agreed to come to the station to speak with the police. The pizza bomber investigators were immediately on high alert now because Rossine lived in very close proximity to the TV tower where Wells was likely outfitted with the bomb that killed him and they suspected the cases were related.

Very next day, September 21st, 2003, 52-year-old Marjorie deal Armstrong is arrested and charged with the murder of James Rodin, the man inside the freezer. Frozen Rodin was her boyfriend. His name works pretty well for that, by the way. The police believed he had been killed about a month earlier in mid August. The police alleged that Marjorie shot James at her house on East 7th Street in Erie, then assisted in moving the body a few miles away to Ross Dean's home and summit township on Upper Peachtree.

Ross Dean told the police that initially he had tried a greed, excuse me, to help the body, get rid of a gun and clean Marjorie deals apartment for $2,000 cash. He said that after James was killed right before Rodin got frozen, Marjorie and Bill cleaned and refurbished his apartment, then Bill moved James's mattress and box strings, box springs to his garage, and dumped almost everything out at a local landfill, including the fluorine, headboard, and footboard, and other items that were covered in blood. Bill made his last trip to the landfill on September 13th, 2003, but this time he

took 1,040 pounds of debris from his personal storage unit. The unit was filled with copper wiring, other items that were related to two of his businesses, red stones, electric company, and red stones, handyman services. And maybe some of the shit he took on that trip with stuff you could have used to, I don't know, making improvise explosive device with. When Bill was interviewed at length by the police on September 21st, he said he was once romantically involved with Marjorie and that they'd known each other

for about 30 years. He said he had no knowledge of the murder until after it was committed. When asked how he learned about the murder, he said, she called me the night or morning that it happened. She came over to my house, she indicated the gym was dead. I think she probably asked for help. And I know she went into histrionics,

which is basically like, she leaned back in the chair and said, nobody can help me, you're the only one who can help me. Or something like that. And, you know, I didn't think obviously, I thought about it, but I didn't think the way I should have. I finally said I would take, I think I said, I'd take a look or something like that.

Bill said he agreed to help Marjorie because he felt sorry for her. And he'd helped her in the past, but never with murder. He said he wanted to get the body out of her house, but not destroyed. He planned to put it somewhere safe and then figure out what to do with it. So it sounds pretty weird.

But then on the 20th, Marjorie told him that she wanted the body destroyed and Bill told her, I'm not gonna do this shit. I'm not gonna go through with it. Bill then on the 20th, Marjorie told him that she wanted the body destroyed and Bill told her, I'm not going to do this shit. I'm not going to go through with it. Bill then decided he would either choose to end his own life or turn Marjorie in. He started discussing his tactics to stall Marjorie, which included gathering a list of necessary supplies to destroy the body. One of these supplies was a meat grinder. Bill claimed he was just trying to bullshit Marjorie. So we could buy some time. Trooper Lamont King was investigator, took the lead on the frozen body investigation.

He was the first one to enter the garage. He saw a large tarp hanging from the ceiling to the floor, which was hiding the freezer. He opened it up and saw a body, quote, rap like a side of beef. Trooper King recalled how he continued walking through the house and found Marjorie deal Armstrong, sitting on the bed, quote, ranting and raving because she wanted them to leave. Well, no, they didn't, instead of rest of her. Marjorie now said that Bill killed a man in the freezer and that she was innocent. Not a real credible claim since Bill killed the, uh, or, uh, or, uh, called the police. When they had no idea he was connected to a guy that they didn't even know was dead, but

as she said, uh, according to Deputy, uh, corner, Korak time in, or Timon, the body was wrapped in a semi-feetal position and was completely frozen. The whole freezer was taken to the corner's office. Frozen Rose's body was stuck to the side of the freezer and they had to thaw him the fuck out which took four days and then perform the autopsy. I can't believe it took it that long. What a bummer they didn't have like a giant microwave right that had been so handy. They could have just like thawed him out pretty quick. Hey Janice, could you put James in the uh in the microwave for about 15 more minutes I know he feels hot to touch but I promise he is still frozen the middle way too cold to eat. I mean examine

Uh the autopsy determined that James was killed with a shotgun blast about three weeks earlier State troopers now transferred the case to the local police Local police always if you don't now have investigated a priority when people are frozen after being shot. I'm pretty sure that's not actually true. Anyway, Bill Rossi was being held at the Penn State Police Barracks. Agent Jerry Clark wanted to interview him,

but there was a confrontation over whether or not the FBI could speak to him because it was witnessed in a state case against Marjorie Deal Armstrong. When Clark suggested there may be a connection between the rodent and Wells cases, he was then allowed to speak to Bill. When Clark introduced himself, Bill said, this is like his opening line. Bill said, quote, well, let me tell you something.

I want you to know right off the top, but I'm the smartest guy in this room. Okay, that is some weird shit to say to someone who was only talking to you because a dead murdered body is You know been found in your freezer. I mean sure he was the one who told authorities that but still That's a fucking weird way to set the tone of being questioned about a murder. Hey Before we get to gibber jabberin about the dead body. I admitted to hiding in my freezer for a while for a friend Let me make one thing very clear on the smartest guy in this fucking room. I Let me make one thing very clear. On the smartest guy in this fucking room.

I doubt it Bill. If Bill really was that smart, he probably would have not agreed to hide a murder victim's body in this freezer in the first place. We're going to learn so much more about Bill. He is an interesting background. Agent Clark asked Bill about the relationship between Brian Wells and James Road and Bill claimed there was no relationship and then quickly refused to talk about the Wells case.

Acting a little suspicious for the smartest guy in the room. That'll be met some new characters in the story of this backtrack a bit to discuss the lives of Bill and Marjorie. Definitely the most interesting characters in this story by miles in my opinion. William Ansel Rostin, he'd soon go by just Bill, born on January 17th, 1944. His parents were Matthias and B. Virginia, Brian, and Rostin. Bill's family ran the locally famous Rola Bodling plant in the Erie. At that time,

a bodily in a local soft drink called Rola Cola. And the Rostings were a wealthy family. A lot of money, apparently, in a regional Cola. I've never heard of it before this episode. There's a different Rola Cola that was made in the UK from 1979 to 1999. The eerie version seems to have been the second most successful role to cola. I can't figure out what eerie's role to cola plant closed down. Most recent vintage role to cola paraphernalia, I can find an eBay account from 1966. I know they last at least a couple years past that based on stuff coming up. With the raw stains, they made the role to cola mula and then hopefully diversified become wealthy i guess as a adult bill took some college courses but then dropped out to work in the

family rola colum business rola colum is very fun to say by the way rola colum uh... bill is a social butterfly participated in amateur radio and photography in the community theater found their own club called the tall club in order to join the tall club manner woman had to be at least six two

which was Bill's height. Feels like a way just to make sure that women in probably some short dudes he didn't care for couldn't be in his club. This group met for lunch and discussed world problems, getting the world's tallest minds together to try and end world hunger and stuff. This guy sounds like a fucking weirdo. Bill later led another group called the Fractured Intellectuals, which was himself and five to six friends who considered themselves geniuses, but maybe had some checkered past. They would meet up for pizza on Friday nights, talk about the news. Yeah, he's a huge weirdo. His comment about being the smartest guy in the room really tracks now. This guy thought a lot of himself. Now for Marjorie, the

weirder of these two, Marjorie Eleanor deal Armstrong born February 26, 1949 in Erie. Her father was Harold Albert Deal and her mother was Agnes Eleanor Wolfenden Deal. I didn't even make that up. Agnes Eleanor Wolfenden. That's a lot. Both the parents who lived long, long, long lives long enough to know who their daughter was, you know, that she was wrapped up in all this shit. Harold was a retired salesman at the time of the murders who used to travel around Pennsylvania Ohio and New York selling aluminum siding onings and windows

Agnes was a retired elementary school teacher Harold and Agnes got married August 22nd 1942 Marjorie's life was once full of so much potential She was a musical prodigy as a young kid and an exceptional student overall She graduated as Belladictorian of her high school class and then went on to earn a master degree in education, you know, ace a bunch of college classes. She was also gorgeous, a description which does factor into this case due to her combination of intellect, beauty, and a certain confident, funny charm, dudes apparently fell all over

themselves trying to win her affection when she was a young woman. She had been a goofy kid, her smarts had made her to win her affection when she was a young woman. She had been a goofy kid. Her smarts had made her a social outcast when she was younger and didn't come into her looks until she was in her teens and then seemed to especially relish in the attention that she hadn't always gotten and the way she treated men was seen by many around her is very manipulative. She was also by her mid-20s mentally ill. She was diagnosed several times in her 20s and 30s, took different

medications. One of her diagnoses was bipolar disorder. Some of her symptoms included hoarding and an endless desire to talk. Also, this will make more sense going forward. I think there's a good chance she exaggerated whatever mental illness symptoms she actually had in order to further manipulate others. When she needs to keep her shit together, it seems like she can, and when it's advantageous for others to think that she is batchet fucking crazy, she seems to be able to dial that way, way up. Perhaps her father, Harold, before he passed away in 2013 said that he and Marjorie were close when she was young. They went fishing together whenever they could find time and Agnes, his wife, doated on their daughter.

When Marjorie later displayed symptoms of mental illness like hoarding, they were heart sick. Harold said they spoiled Marjorie, maybe too much. And when she became mentally ill, they gave her money because she couldn't hold down a job. They helped her buy two different houses and some additional land, but then she didn't take care of any of it.

Finally in the early 80s, they started to pull back the purse strings. Harold stopped giving her money when she got in trouble with the police. I'll go over her legal troubles if you're referring to her in just a bit. They're pretty serious. Surely before the pizza-bomber murder, Marjorie believed that Harold and Agnes had saved up about a million dollars and that he had started giving it to his friends and neighbors. Her mom will die a couple years before the pizza-bomber heist.

She thought that they didn't want to give Marjorie money because, or excuse me, they actually didn't want to give Marjorie money because in Harold's opinion, it was a tool to make her commit more crimes. Long before the death of Brian Wells, Marjorie was known for having all kinds of crazy plans and ideas. She once told a psychologist that she could put a spell on people and they would die. Most people who knew her found her to be either eccentric or, you know, just straight up crazy. How would you react if someone told you they could put a spell on people to kill them?

Would you be like, bullshit? Prove it. Or would you not do that because maybe a little tiny part of you might think probably not, but why risk it? Marjorie met her best friend Susan Robinson in 1962. Susan described Marjory as a magnetic person, but also very intense. Intense to the point that she would need to go home and relax for a little while at her spending time with Marjory. And that's her best friend saying that. The person who liked the most could only handle her in doses. According to Susan and Marjory was really happy when she first met Bill Rostin because she found someone older than her, who she felt could relate to her on an intellectual level. Some maybe Bill is pretty smart in some ways.

Marjorie and Bill dated in the early 70s when she was finishing school at Mercyhurst College, and after he left the University of Toledo, where he was studying electrical engineering. Bill moved back home to work for his family. As I kind of mentioned, one of Marjorie's friends introduced her to Bill, and they went roller skating on their first date. Pretty cute. Marjorie was 21, Bill was 26. At one point, Marjorie and Bill get engaged. They seem like a good match. They were both highly intelligent, both described as very attractive people in their 20s. They even lived together with Bill's parents for a little while, but the engagement only lasted nine months. Marjorie

said a few things about why they didn't say together. During one interview, she said she just couldn't get over the fact that Bill was Jewish. And I don't have any information as to why that bothered her, and that might not be true, because she said a variety of things. Marjorie talked about her relationship with Bill in a phone call from jail after her 2003 arrest and gave a different reason for them breaking up. She said, I was a virgin when I met him. He wanted to do perverted sex with me all the time when I was young and I didn't know anything. He's into oral or anal sex all the time. He wanted to like lick your legs, put his penis in your legs. He worshiped my legs. He's a pervert. I like the legs details pretty weird. He wanted to

stick his dick in my legs. No, thank you. That's not what. Hello. That's not what legs are for Put in dicks and legs is pretty bad for him So maybe they broke up because Bill wanted to fuck every no-concrania Marjorie's body and she wasn't into that Yeah, they didn't match up as far as sexual interest go happens all the time Bill pleaded with her to give back together. Please let me fuck your legs Marjorie Both the relationships didn't work, at least not romantically. Marjorie said later in a prison phone call that Bill blamed her for breaking off their engagement

and never seriously dated or lived with another woman after she ended their engagement, never got over her. Ray Borkowski won a Bill's closest friends at the time of all the pizza bombing madness, described Bill as kind, generous and helpful, a perfect friend, thought Bill was very intelligent, also never liked Marjorie. Thought she was nasty and controlling.

He was worried about how Bill obsessed over her. Borkowski said in a documentary interview for Evil Genius, it was like somehow she got into a psyche and she just lived there. Both Marjorie and Bill would rack up some serious history of getting in trouble with the law. Marjorie's criminal record started over 20 years before her boyfriend's body showed up and bills freezer back in April of 1980. This is a fucking weird thing to do. Marjorie is working at an abortion clinic and she was accused of telling an undercover female officer that she was pregnant based on her urine sample and she

recommended that the officer pay at least 150 bucks for an abortion. But the urine sample actually came from a male officer. Whoops. And Marjorie was charged with conspiracy and attempted theft by deception. That's a strange and fucked up way to try and make some extra money. To tell someone they're pregnant with or not.

That crime, to me, wreaked some mental illness. I mean, since she wasn't a doctor, how was she going to talk a doctor into performing a procedure on a woman who didn't need it and then also profit off of that? Marjorie entered a program for first time nonviolent offenders got two years probation and 60 years of community service. Four years later, July 30th, 1984, Marjorie deals boyfriend at the time, Bob Thomas, is

found dead on her living room couch. At same day, Marjorie took a bag with $18,000 in cash in it over to a friend's house. She said she cashed a social security check in the morning and the rest of the money came from the payment she received after her car accident. Then she offered her friend who she had only known for one week $25,000 to get rid of Bob Thomas' body. So the situation with Bill and Frozen Road, and that was the second time she had tried to get a guy to dispose or you know, a guy in a store to get someone to dispose of a body for her, right, the body of her boyfriend. Also imagine someone you literally met the week before

asking you if you'd get rid of a body for 25 grand. Yeah, let's grab you in tomorrow. I can't wait. Oh, one more thing. I know we just met, but where do you stand on burying bodies for people? Margie wanted her friend to cut Thomas' body up with a fucking chain saw,

bury it, dump it off a pier or burn it. Margie also offered that woman's sister money. A woman she really didn't know at all to get rid of the body. These two women understandably creeped to fuck out, called her mom, and their mom called the police. Margie was arrested and charged with criminal homicide, possession of instruments of a crime, and possession of firearms without a license. And then her bond was revoked when authorities learned she had tried to arrange the death of two witnesses. So she killed one person, then tries to have those two sisters killed when they refused to help her hide the body of the first person she killed.

Marjory's trial would not start until 1988 because of her mental evaluations. Her defense team argued that she was not insane or unable to determine right from wrong, but she was too mentally incompetent and incapable of assisting in her own defense. So she would remain incompetent if she was, excuse me, and she would remain incompetent if she was not medicated for her bipolar disorder. She was finally found competent in February, 1988 in order to stand trial. Marjorie's trial started May. She admitted to shooting Bob Thomas with 38 Calibre revolver six times, said she purchased the gun five days before the murder as a birthday

present for him. She claimed that Thomas beat her and sexually abused her and that the night before the murder, they got into a huge argument because he accused her of being overly attracted to actor Richard Geer, not making that up. And then he forced her to perform oral sex on him. Based on all the shit she says later, I don't believe this happened at all. So weird. Admit it. Just fucking admit it.

He's a very handsome man. Why do you always want to rent an officer in a gentleman? Every fucking time we go to blockbuster. You want to leave me for Richard gear? No, we'll prove it and suck my dick. She said Thomas cut her with a knife and that she shot him in self-defense. Then on June 2, 1988, Marjorie is acquitted of murder and the weapons charge but convicted

of carrying a gun without a license. Sends to 50 months probation. I think she totally got away with one here. Her defense attorney Leonard Ambrose described representing Marjorie later as punishment on earth. Kind of weird phrasing, maybe like hell on earth, combining with being punished. He said in the evil genius docu series, she should have been confined. She was sick.

She was disturbed. And anybody that was around her knew that. Sounds like although he didn't outright say, you know, that her own defense attorney thought she got away with murder. Did she lie about being sexually abused to gain sympathy from the jury? A lot of people seem to think so. I think so In the early 90s Marju is married to a man named Richard Armstrong

Second dick including gear if you're tracking that this week This dick died of a brain hemorrhage on August 24th 1992 right before their two-year anniversary Well Marju he had married Richard directly after accusing him of threatening to kill her He answered a plea bargain for this charge and was sentenced to one month in prison in January 1991 and then they got married on January 23rd. Ha. Marjorie filed a wrongful death suit against the hospital and actually won $175,000 in a settlement in 1998.

So smart enough to pursue that. Stable enough to pursue that in court. Bill Ross dain had his own criminal experience in February of 1977. His friend, Louis Alessie, told him that he had just killed someone. And what the fuck? Marjorie, the second friend of his who came to him after killing somebody. Such a weird pairing there, right? Like this is the second time she's gone to someone to have, you know, to plead to get them to try and like hide a body for her. And on his side, it's a second time someone has come to ask if they help fucking get rid of a body.

I do not have friends as interesting to these people. Bill later said that he tried to burn the murder weapon, but instead put it in a plastic bag and threw it away. He kept that quiet until 1979. When he testified for the prosecution, got his friend convicted of murder in his former ex-boyfriend. And then Rossine received immunity in exchange for his testimony.

Rossine was also involved in a family feud before the bank heist. Bill had been living rent-free to his childhood home on Peach Street ever since his parents died. His brother and sister wanted to sell the house, but as the executor of the estate, Bill didn't want to move. He wanted a free ride. He told his siblings he put the house on the market for $90,000, but he actually listed it for $250,000, but he actually listed it for $250,000.

Way above what it was worth. According to a agent Jason Wick, a real estate agent advised that this was, you know, way too high, but Bill was insistent on that exact number. Agent Wick did not think it was a coincidence that the robbery note demanded that same amount. So for some reason, Bill really wanted a quarter of a million dollars in cash. Now let's shift focus back to James Rodin's murder investigation. Investigators quickly learned that Bill had a roommate named Floyd Arthur Stockton, Jr. and that Stockton moved out of the house just a day after the bank heist. The FBI didn't find out about Stockton until Marjorie told him about him. Marjorie told him that Stockton was living with Ross Dean because he was on the run from

the law. He was wanted for a rape charge in Washington. There's so many fucking shady characters wrapped up in a gnaw all this. living with Ross Dean because he was on the run from the law. He was wanted for a rape charge in Washington or so many fucking shady characters, wrapped up in a gnaw all this. Floyd also known as Jay was now arrested on a fugitive from Justice charge on the evening of September 21st. Stockton was born in Jamestown, New York,

near the Pennsylvania border, grew up in Erie, spent most of his life incarcerated or moving around. As a teen, Stockton was jailed for stealing a car. First, he met Bill when he got out of prison back in 1968. Stockton stopped at the Rolla-Cola bottling company to buy some beer and Bill was working the register that day. Stockton was three years older than Bill, but born on the same day, two men became fast friends, went to concerts together, went hang out of the bottling company. Stockton worked for Rolla-Cola during the day,

played guitar and some local bands at night, Bill said he tried to give his buddy, or keep his buddy out of trouble. Stockton spent time in prison on Samarro, and wanted charges in the 70s, and then moved west when he got out from those sentences. He moved to Montana, 1980, and a few years later, was sentenced to 10 years in prison for a 1983 rape conviction. When he was released for that conviction, he moved to Belenham, Washington, lived there with a woman and her family. One of his girlfriend's kids was a 19 year old girl with a serious mental disability, and in May of 2002, Stockton was charged with raping her. By the time the police were looking for him, he was already on the run.

So now I'll jump back into the timeline. All these characters keep showing up. So September 24, 2003, the police and federal agents questioned Bill about the Brian Wells case. He told him he might have used the pay phone. That was a source of the phone call made to the pizza shop. Hard to say, maybe he called Brian, right before someone who knows who put a bomb around his neck,

or maybe not. Maybe he's playing solitaire at home and that happened or beaten off while fantasizing about fucking Marjorie's ankles or the back of her knees or her thigh gap or something. Bill came in for a polygraph with the FBI and passed, but Agent Clark didn't trust results. He felt Bill was smart enough to beat a polygraph. And we now know that those things are, you know, very unreliable.

Ross Dean was free on bail because he was cooperating with investigators. He took them on a tour of both his and Marjorie's homes. Investigators found a suicide note. Bill had written out at his house that said, police, one, this has nothing to do with the well's case. Two, the body and the freezer and the garage is Jim Rohn. I do think it's interesting. He does the one parenthetical and two parenthetical just like the notes written earlier related to the pizza volume. Three, I did not kill him nor participate in his death. Four, my apologies to those who cared for or about me. I am sorry that I let them down. Five, I am sorry to leave you dismissed. Bill Rostin. Despite this very suspicious note,

the FBI initially clears both Floyd and Rostin, but the state police and local police do not. They believe from the beginning that these two guys are involved in the Bryan Wells pizza barmer heist January 20th 2004 Marjorie is ordered to stand trial for homicide aggravated assault tampering with evidence abusive of corpse and other charges stemming from the death of frozen rodent Ross team testified the preliminary hearing that Marjorie shot James over an argument about money Ross team accepted a plea deal for a few years in prison on a charge of abusive of corpse He was allowed to stay out on bail until his sentencing.

Marjorie made a shocking statement after the hearing when asked what she had to say about Bill Rossini. She said, Rossini should be charged for the murder of Brian Wells and a lot of other charges. He had a few different justice, a rapist that I turned into the FBI in his house for two years. Alright, so she's going down and wants to bring him down too. In March of 2004, seven months after Brian's murder, Marjorie Deel Armstrong has transferred

from the Eerie County Prison to Mayview State Hospital for long-term psychiatric evaluation. Investigators now not allowed to talk to her because of her mental state. Four months later, July 30, 2004, 60-year-old Bill Rosting dies a cancer. He had said nothing about the Brian's Well Wells case when investigators questioned him in his final days Seem like Bill was hiding his sickness as long as possible until he was hospitalized

He knew he had cancer when Brian robbed the bank In August it was announced that Marjorie would soon be released from the state mental hospital. She was scheduled for a competency hearing September 8 Marjorie was once again ordered to stand trial on September 9th 2004 after that hearing. On January 7th 2005 Marjorie pleads guilty but mentally ill to a third degree murder in abusive accords in the death of James Road and she ascends to seven to 20 years in prison. Marjorie admitted to her cellmates that she shot James because of a fight about another woman. So she might have gotten away with killing a guy in 1984, but 20 years later, not so lucky, but still gets to reduce sense thanks to her mental illness.

And again, every time she's like really seriously questioned whatever it seems to flare up. She told the judging court, I'm not going to be any more trouble. Your honor. I've learned my lesson. If I get another chance of life, I'm not going to lose it. You know, some people are slow learners, you're on or some people know right away that you shouldn't kill your boyfriend or husband, you know? Others have to learn from their mistakes.

After killing two guys I was with, now I get it. I get it, I get it. No more killing partners for this cow girl. Ha ha, no sir, pinky swear. Marjorie's first send to the Mayview State Hospital for treatment, she would be transferred to prison if doctors determined she no longer need a care. And now let's meet, Trey, a Bozerale, a future narrator, co-creator of the Evil Genius

Doctorous series. The man who had been obsessed with the collar bomb case from the very beginning. Bozerale, the site to write to Marjorie back in 2005. He received a response a week after his first letter. She said she was very familiar with the well case and promised to reveal secrets if he gave her legal help or money. Okay. Bazarelli and Marjorie will communicate via letters to giant boxes full letters and phone calls for about 10 years. Will he solve Brian's case? On March 16th, 2005, almost 19 months after Brian Wells murder, Marjorie is transferred from the state hospital to

the state correctional institution at Muncie. Bosirelli or Borsirelli, there we go, Borsirelli arranged an interview with Marjorie as part of their deal. She would tell him about the bank heist if he now got her an attorney. In this interview, she admits to shooting and killing James Rodin. She said she shot James because he threatened to kill her, which he'd allegedly been doing for more than 10 years. She said she couldn't take it anymore.

Also said it had nothing to do with Brian Wells. Let the court found her guilty of lying about that. She was convicted because she admitted to killing him over for other reasons, right? Excuse me. Marjorie explained that James Bondy was kept in the freezer because Bill said he couldn't take James out until he finished, quote, a business project, which he thought, you know, reflecting later was the bank heist. Marjorie was vague about the pizza bomber case,

and in her first face-to-face meeting with Bozurelli, she specifically said, I know Bill Rossstein's involved in it, and applied there was someone else involved who was closely following the case, but wouldn't say how she knew this information. State Trooper David Gluth here is about all this and alerts the FBI that Margie potentially has info about Brian Wells. Back in 2003, the state police had moved Margie's belongings and storage, now they turned her unit over to the FBI that Marjorie potentially has info about Brian Wells. Back in 2003, the state police had moved Marjorie's belongings in storage. Now they turned her unit over to the FBI. And inside,

investigators find a letter from Marjorie to the PNC bank, same branch that Brian robbed. She was furious because a manager allowed her father to empty a family safety deposit box, with some of her valuable property supposedly also inside. Let's meet Marjorie's friend Kenneth E. Barnes now. Another odd character in this story. Barnes had been Marjorie's fishing buddy for nine years before the Pete's Bomber situation. She was introduced to Ken by her boyfriend James Rodin. Barnes was a TV repairman and a drug dealer mostly cooked with a little bit of crack. I love the he will repair your TV and maybe say a little bit crack.

Why not let's bring a little bit of crack in this batch. It's crazy story. Kenneth Barnes revealed in a police interview that James Rodin was like a little puppet and did whatever Marjorie wanted him to do. He said the two fought all the time sometimes physically and that Marjorie had threatened to kill him on on numerous occasions before she did kill him. Marjorie such a troubled person who seems incapable of having a stable relationship, she'd actually filed a criminal complaint accusing Kenneth of breaking into her house on May 30, 2003 and stealing $2,300. It was not charged. Barnes was renovating

her house with rodent at the time. Marjorie described Barnes as not just a coke dealer, but also a pimp. So, TV repairman, dealer and Pimp. She also kept changing her story about him. At one point, she accused Kenneth and a biker, some random biker, of stealing over $100,000 from her. Marjorie didn't trust banks and did keep a lot of cash in her house. How much no one knows. When she was accused of being involved in the bank, she did say she didn't need to rob a bank because she had so much money from her inheritance various lawsuits and government aid. And that is a pretty pathetic flex. I don't need that banks money. I've been grifting from my dad and the government for years. I also figured out how to manipulate the court system. I have a lot of other people's money already that I work for

literally any of it. No, fuck no. Should her being mentally ill give her a pass for also being a real piece of shit? I don't think so. Um, both April 20th and May 23rd, 2005 FBI agent Jerry Clark, ATF agent Jason Wick, pretty good at dodgeball, interviewed Marjorie about Brian Wells. She said, uh, she would talk about the Wells case if they could move her closer to Erie. How mentally ill is she? Is she like a little mentally ill and also smarter to know how to manipulate psychologists and psychiatrists into thinking she's more mentally ill than she is? She does seem so incredibly manipulative, constantly. According to Agent Wick, not that you can't be manipulative

and you know, not that makes you not mentally ill, but. According to Agent Wick, Marjorie started off the interviews by yelling at them. All right, maybe she's a little fucking crazy. Agent Clark butted her up with compliments, which calmed her down and then she was willing to talk. The FBI did arrange for a transfer, hoping she'd provide new information, but all she did was continue to implicate Bill Rossing in the Wells case, rather than provide something new and useful, something detailed.

Eventually, Marjorie told her friend, Trey Borsarelli, about a blue van that Bill once kept at his house. She thought it was suspicious that Bill had it towed after the heist and didn't have returned to his house until he was cleared as the suspect. She thought Bill might have been driving that van on, oh, I don't know, August 28th, 2003. Borsarelli now remembered that he did see a blue van in Rossine's driveway when he tried to interview him for his documentary.

So now he shows the footage of the van to trooper Lamont King, who was mentioned earlier, also saw a van, a van leaving the last scavenger site location on August 28. King looks at this video and says, there is no doubt in my mind. That's the van I saw that day. So hot damn. Finally, a break in the case over year and a half in. And a guy making a true crime doc provided it. Investigators now decided to start over and reread every report made by every investigator

involved in the Bryan Wells case. While reviewing the walkthrough video of Rossstein's garage ATF Agent Wick sees a piece of paper with a drawing that includes an arrow with a turn. When he looks at photos of the bomb collar, he realizes it has a very similar looking arrow drawn on it. Borsarelli meanwhile speaks with Rossstein's old friend Ray Borkowski. He looks at the instructions written to Bryan Wells, as well as indented writing found on the back of one of the notes, and Ray says it was Bill's handwriting quote without a doubt.

Also remember how fucking smart Bill thought he was, right? The smartest guy in the room. The leader of the fractured intellectuals. He was an arrogant dude, and those notes had an arrogant tone to them. The tone of someone who thinks they are a real mastermind All the pieces fit and point to bill On July 5th, 2005 Clark and Wic interview Marjorie again to the state prison Marjorie now says that she killed James Road and to keep him from fucking talking about the Brian Wells Bank robbery plot

She said she never gave details about his murder before because she was worried it would implicate her in Brian's case Why is she admitting this now? I don't know, I really don't. I think because she thought she was going to get a deal. Marjorie also said that she gave Ross team some kitchen timers in the summer of 2003, which just happened to be some of the main components of the collar bomb. Finally, she admitted to being just a quarter mile from the bank when Brian was killed. She did bring up immunity during her interview, but never actually got an official deal. So she fucked up. And then when she didn't get a deal, she disputed the

FBI's account over statements later, but it was too late. Those statements already on the record. According to state trooper, David Gluth, the FBI now speaks to four different women in prison who all claim that Marjorie said she killed James because he was going to reveal bank ice plants. Inmate Kela, McCayla, even kept several pages of notes with info about the bank heist and the murderer James Rodin. Kelly asked the police to get her notes to the FBI, but they ended up instead in a file labeled

snitch letters, well now the FBI examines them. McCayla's notes stated that Rossine built the collar bomb, Floyd Stockton was involved and that the heist was linked to the James Road in case. Marjorie also said, per these notes, it's not like we didn't measure his neck for the collar. In the summer of 2005, more evidence shows up, and it makes national news. A man named Tom Sedwick, or Sedwick, claimed that on August 28, 2003, he was driving down

I-79 near the PNC bank when he saw from about a half mile away a gold car driving head on towards him on the wrong side of the freeway. The driver was a woman with unusual eyes, which turned out to belong to Marjorie deal Armstrong. Tom called the FBI's hotline to report this info on September 5, 2003, but the tip never got passed up the chain at that time. Erie D.A. Brad folk now calls the FBI to ask if they've heard of this witness. They had not. So Jerry Clark went to interviewing.

Clark reported that Marjorie admitted to being on the highway, but denied driving down the wrong side of the road and said she wasn't on the highway for any reason related to the Wells case. The summer America's most wanted airs information about the case, hoping to get more leads and works. Michael Thomas vote a UPS driver calls the FBI after watching the program to report that he saw a Marjorie deal Armstrong and Bill Ross team together at the Shell Station pay phone August 28th. Votes said he was driving past the gas station when he saw a large man standing at the

pay phone wearing bib overalls, which was a look that Rossstein rocked a lot. He saw a Marjorie standing there too and they even made eye contact. And she does not have a face that you would forget. I don't even know how to describe why that is, but she does not look like anyone else I've ever seen there's a certain intensity about her look. It's very memorable. Marjorie admits now to being at the Shell Station, but not because she was participating in the call to Brian Wells. She was just, you know, hanging around at the gas station. At the time, somebody called Brian to deliver his last pizza, or delivery that ended up with him having a bomb locked around his neck and being given bank robbery instructions.

It's probably as a coincidence. Gosh. Next on July 19th and 20th, 2005, agents Clark and Wick interview Bill Ross team's old roommate Floyd Stockton, Jr. Currently incarcerated on a rape charge. They tell him if he will give them the information they want, they'll drop the rape charge and to sweeten the pot. They'll give him an official FBI rape punch card.

Good for five free rapes he'll never be charged for. No, of course not. Can you fucking imagine how outrageous that would be? Okay, okay, so we fucked up. We shouldn't have given the punch card. We were just desperate to solve this case. It was been taken forever. And we knew that we'd get him talking.

Okay, sorry. During this interview, they learned even more about the case, Stockton claims that William and Marjorie were involved in the collarbone plot because they needed money. Agent Wick believes him, but also feels like Stockton is holding something else back. He won't tell them any real detailed information about the pizza bomber case. They wonder if he's doing that because he's worried about implicating himself. August 11th, 18th and September

13th, 2005, agents Clark and Wick interview Marjorie's friend Kenneth Barnes. Some more. Barnes said that before Brian Wells was killed, Marjorie solicited him to kill her father, to prevent him from spending any more of her inheritance. I can see you're doing this for sure. When Barnes was asked if he knew Brian Wells, he said he didn't know him, but he heard about his death the day after the bombing he was having sex with a sex worker who brought up Ryan's name. That woman was Jessica Hoopsick, and her name was found in the notebook that Brian kept in his house.

Jerry Clark and Palatella, another FBI agent, wrote in there, I'm sorry, a co-author with Jerry Clark, wrote in their book about this case. With that bit of information, Barnes had turned into the critical link in the Wells case. Deal Armstrong, new Rossstein and Barnes and Barnes knew Wells through Hoopsick. Barnes connected Wells to deal Armstrong and Rossstein. So, hey, I'm name Rod. Looking like they're actually going to figure this shit out. Kenneth Barnes tells him that he rented out rooms to his house to sex workers and their clients in exchange for drugs and money. And Bryan uses this stop by often. Bryan Wells happened to have sex with Jessica Hoopsick about two times a month for about five years. According to Agent Jerry Clark, Brian Wells had often driven

Jessica to Ken Barnes house where she was staying. They would consummate their sexual transaction on the second floor of Mr. Barnes residence. Brian paid Jessica, then she bought crack from Ken. Clark said, all three were very happy with the deal, and it worked out for everybody. Vescagator's now located Jessica Hoopsick, but she said she didn't know anything and refused to answer their questions, but they'll talk to her again later and she will, you know, fill in some gaps for us. Vescagator's all search, also searched Ken Barnes' house.

There was nothing linking Ken to the collar bomb specifically. But Barnes did have a lot of magazines about building electronics that could be used in an explosive device. And those are pretty fucking weird magazines to have. And fairly incriminating considering what they're investigating. A Barnes claim that he was not involved in the heist but elaborated on Marjorie's motive for it. In his second interview, he said, Marjorie solicited Brian Wells to commit the bank robbery and kill her father and solicited him to kill her father because she wanted her inheritance and the sooner the better, right?

Marjorie wanted Ken to be the hitman she wanted to rob a bank to get enough money to pay Ken to kill her dad. So Convular of this plan is Ken claimed he wasn't going to do it. He was a drug dealer, not a hitman. This information he's giving now, not actually new back in 2003 during the James frozen road investigation Can reported that Marjorie wanted to hire him as a hitman, but that information was not passed along with the FBI So so much information get lost in the multiple agency shuffle here. It's all very confusing According to Ken Barnes statements in the original interview

Marjorie asked him if he would kill her dad. He said he was just joking with her, told her it would cost her quarter of a million dollars. Like any said, he was just playing around when he said he wanted, you know, half up front, he told investigators he would never kill anyone. Just wanted to see if Marjorie was stupid enough to give him that money. If he's not bullshitting here, this obviously seriously implicates Marjorie and Brian Welles Death. This guy tells her he'll kill her dad for $250,000,

then right after that, Brian is pressured to rob a bank for that exact amount. Just before he robs it, Marjorie has spotted at the exact pay phone used to call the police, or used to call the pizza place, to lure Brian out for his final delivery. The guy she was spotted with at the pay phone is a longtime friend, former fiance,

his van then spotted at the scavenger hunt, stopped Brian was trying to get to when he was blown to fuck up, and it was this guy's handwriting on the notes found in Brian's car, a guy who had the body of Marjorie's dead boyfriend and his fucking freezer, a guy she went to prison for murdering, and she murdered him because he was going to rat out her bank robbery plot according to numerous witnesses. Sure fucking seems like Marjorie orchestrated the pizza bombing with the help of Bill Rostin, old flame obsessed with her until he died. And she did that to try and paste someone $250,000 to kill her dad so she could get the rest of his inheritance. Her mama died in 2000, only her dad would need to die to get that money. What a fucking crazy

situation. December 9th, 12th, 14th, 2005. Kenneth Barnes meets more with agents Clark and Wick reveals critical information about the bank heist. Kenneth said in his confession that on August 27th, 2003, the conspirators had a meeting to this the night before the robbery. They had a meeting to Bill's house to talk about the robbery. At this meeting is Rossine Marjorie himself, Floyd Stockton, Robert Pinede, and Brian Wells. And Pinede, if you forgot, is Brian's co-worker at the pizza place. So many names keep track of. Pinede was the guy who overdosed, due to a few days after Brian's death, right before he was to be questioned by the FBI.

Trey Borsarelli talks with Kenneth further, records the conversation, and Kenneth's story is the same as the one he told the FBI. Kennesaw said he was on the lookout. Marjorie came to his house shortly before noon on August 28th or he was the lookout for the robbery. Marjorie came to his house shortly before noon, August 28th. According to Kennes' statement, Marjorie told him today is the day. He asked where James aka Jim was because he was supposed to drive the getaway car. Marjorie said Jim was in bed and she thought he was sick with the flu.

Well, he was of course dead and it builds freezer at this time. Now they go to the shell station where Bill makes a call to the pizza real. Afterwards they go to Bill's house, then to the big signal tower to wait for Brian. Brian gets out of his car, puts the pizza on the trunk of Rossine's car. Marjorie can and Bill eat some of the pizza while Brian waits to be paid. Floyd brings the bomb out from the back of the building as a tower site. He gives within three feet of Brian who looks terrified. Brian Pannex starts to run. Ken runs up to him, says, equipping such a

pus hits him. Rostin then pulls out a gun, shoots it into the air, tells Brian he's not going fucking anywhere. Marjorie helps Rostin out grab Brian and Marjorie and Stockton put the bomb on him while Brian is shouting, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do this. Ken didn't know if Brian thought the bomb was real or fake. Marjorie now puts the shirt on Brian to cover up the bomb. Someone gives Brian the notes and Marjorie tells Brian, if you happen to get caught, tell them some black guys held you down, put the bomb on you.

That way it won't bring any heat back to us. They give him the cane gun, tell him to use it if he has any trouble. They now go to the parking lot of a place called Eden Park, which was across the street and over the hill from the bank and from there, Marjorie and Ken actually watched the bank robbery through binoculars. They leave when the police arrive on the scene and drive down Peach Street to Bill's house. They swap vehicles with him, Marjor gets back on I-79, drives on the wrong fucking side of the road. Authorities believe she was driving into the McKin Township sign to look for the last site on the map.

Kenna said that when he saw Brian's death on TV he felt bad because the bomb was supposed to be fake. He told Bore Zarelli, as far as I knew, or he knew, or anybody else knew, it wasn't supposed to be real. But between Margin and Rostin, they ended up making a real. After Ken confessed, the authorities headed to Washington State, now to talk to Floyd Stockton. Stockton's attorneys get him an immunity deal in exchange for testifying against Marjorie. February 10th 2006, agents Wic and Clark meet with Marjorie yet again. She denies being with Barnes on August 27th and 28th, says Rossstein framed her. February 14th 2006, agents meet with Kenneth Barnes again. He's upset when he hears that Marjorie

denied her role in the robbery and called her liar. Marjorie Gil Armstrong speaks to agents Wic and Clark eight times on May 10, 2006, at the advice of her lawyer, Lawrence D'Ambrio's D'Ambrio's Joe. She went on a drive with agent through some of township and identified where she was August 28, 2003. Marjorie said the Bill Rossine asked her for two kitchen timers, but then she ended the interview. As mentioned previously, these were components of the bomb. The media had not released this information, so only investigators and conspirators would know

about it. Marjorie now says she's done talking. Floyd Stockton confesses March 27, 2007. He mentions that per bill's request, he tried to take a couple pieces for the collar or try to make a couple pieces, but he couldn't do it right, so then Bill took over. Stockton did a reenactment at the scene with the police. He said, Marjorie was present, and Ross teen ordered him to put the bomb around Brian's neck. After he put the collar on Brian, he left the tower area, said he started running a zig-zag pattern away, because he thought they were going to shoot him.

He told investigators, you know what, I'm a convicted child abuser. I could get shot back here and know what even care. What a mad plan all these maniacs were putting together. Both Stockton and Barnes said that they didn't know who built the bomb or who built the cane gun, or who wrote the notes, or who is the actual mastermind of the whole operation. They also couldn't give details about Robert Pinede's involvement. They both said Brian was involved in the heist, but didn't know exactly how or when he was recruited. Someone else will eventually provide those details. July 9, 2007, a federal grand jury that had been meeting for the past two years now indicts Marjorie D. Lamstrong and Kenneth Barnes for bank robbery,

conspiracy to commit arm bank robbery, and using a destructive device and a crime of violence. Barnes was serving 23 months in prison at the time for a drug offense. Brian Wells and William Rostin both dead of course are named as unindicted co-conspirators. Floyd Stockton not named an indictment because of his immunity deal. On July 11, 2007 the indictments are unsealed. US Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan announces the indictments against Marjorie and Kenneth for the roles in the Colerbomb case also discusses what investigators knew about Brian's role in the heist. You can't inset at the press conference, we're not exactly sure how much Wells knew. We know he was involved in a limited extent with the planning of this. Brian's family glared at her, shouted liar during the press conference.

I mean, you know fair enough, they don't want to believe he was conspirator, they only want to see him as a victim. According to an indictment, Marjorie and Kenneth made a plan to make it look like Brian was merely a hostage So he would have an alibi if he was arrested But if he was killed by the bomb even better because now he couldn't become a witness against him You can't accept the press conference. It may be that his role transitioned from that of the planning stages to being an unwilling participant in the scheme Information was leaked to the press at this time that Marjorie had solicited Kenneth to help rob a different bank in July of 2003. They never made it out of the planning stages for that one, but a month before that robbery

though, she allegedly asked Kenneth how to build a pipe bomb. It was now revealed that Marjorie was under the mistaken impression. Her father was wealthy for all this and that he was giving away her substantial inheritance. The Cleveland Plain deal reported that Harold and Agnes deals a state was once worth $5,000 dollars, but it had dwindled. Marjorie's father told the paper, she wouldn't kill me, but she probably would get someone else to do it. She tends to be greedy.

That's her dad talking. How sad to have a kid you know, you know, is a 100% capable of having you killed if that means that they got your money. Also, how fucking stupid is this whole plan? Marjorie involved the whole cast of miscreants to help her get $250,000. And if she would have gotten that, she would have used it to pay Ken Barnes to kill her dad, and then quite possibly received much less than $250,000. Because her dad wasn't worth that much money anymore. Lastly, the indictment alleged that Marjorie supplied the two timers using the

collar bomb, which you know, started to mention in interviews. The FBI now firmly believes Rossine was the mastermind of the heist, and likely the person who also made the bomb. And that he made it at the request of Marjorie for her dumb fucking inheritance plan. The authorities alleged that Brian Wells mentally rehearsed his role in the plan and sat for fittings of the collar bomb under the impression it wouldn't actually be a real bomb that would kill him. According to the FBI affidavit, Kenneth Barnes said that Brian was discussing the robbery about a month in advance, which was corroborated by another witness.

A witness driving past Ross Dean's house on August 27th, and before Brian dies, saw Brian pulling out of the driveway and had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting him, which supported the claim that he was at the meeting with Rossstein, Marjorie, and others before the robbery. Also according to the indictment, Bill Rossstein was standing in the parking lot next to the bank waiting to get the money from Brian. But as Brian walked out, a customer followed him because they thought he was acting suspicious and Bill panicked and drove home, where Marjorie was waiting for him.

And that is how they were supposed to get the fucking money. Finally makes sense. Brian was supposed to hand over the cash is how they were supposed to get the fucking money. Finally, it makes sense. Brian was supposed to hand over the cash to Bill on his way out of the bank and then go on his scavenger hunt to keep himself from getting blown up. You know, with Bill knowing that was never going to happen, but Bill fucks that up. So when Bill returns to Marjorie, she is furious, but he's empty handed. And she thinks that he was given the $250,000 and he's hiding it from her. So she gets into Bill's car in a panic and drive it toward the bank to find it.

And at one point, he veers off the highway, looking near the median and witnesses saw her driving recklessly that day. So that is how she ends up on the wrong side of the freeway. She flipped out because she thinks that Bill stole her money. Story clerk also reported the roster and the collaborators purchased several items that were used for the bomb in the weeks leading up to the robbery. Finally the indictment states that James frozen rodon was killed on August 11, 2003. According to authorities, rodon was a key member and worked closely with deal arms strong

and rostin, planning the robbery before his death, but then something went awry, right? Were they originally supposed to all share in margaries and heredons? How ridiculous. If they would have gotten the $250,000, then, then use it to pay 10 bars to kill her. Then gotten like a hundred or a hundred fifty K from the inheritance, then split it up amongst margarie, James Roden, Bill Rostin, maybe Robert Pinede, maybe Floyd J. Stockton too. How did any of them, everything this was going to work out? I feel like they were all smoking a lot of crack while they're putting this all together. July 29, 2008, US District Judge Sean J. McLaughlin declares

Marjorie deal Armstrong incompetent for trial due to her mental illness for fuck's sake. Her mental illness once again conveniently shows up consistently flares up whenever she's on trial for murder. And this is her third fucking murder trial now. Every time the trial gets delayed because of her malingering bullshit, which I'm speculating on, by the way, just annoying. Seems so manipulative and I hate people this manipulative. She was committed to a federal mental health facility. Officials were asked to report to the judge in four months to let him know if she had improved enough to move forward with the case. I just throw her in a cell forever already. She's piece of shit. September 3rd 2008 Kenneth Barnes pleads guilty

to conspiracy to commit bank robbery and using a destructive device during a crime of violence. His attorney, James Mead, said Kenneth was a very minor player in the heist. December 3rd 2008, Kenneth Barnes is sentenced to 45 years in federal prison. After Ken Barnes sentencing, prosecutors reemphasized that Brian Wells was involved in planning the robbery, but he no longer wanted to participate when he realized the bomb was real and he was then forced to wear it. September 8, 2009, Judge McLaughlin finds Marjorie competent to stand trial. Finally, six months later, in March 2010, Marjorie has a cancerous lump removed from her neck

and is diagnosed with glandular cancer. August 12, 2010, Judge McLaughlin reviews a physician's report that states, Marjorie has just three to seven years to live, assistant, US attorney, Marshall, Pisanini announced that he still planned to take her to trial though. Fucking good. Thank God, let's get some closure on all this. It's been seven years since Brian's death. Now, jury selection for Marjorie D. Alarmstrom's trial starts October 12, 2010 Floyd Stockton unfortunately has two strokes just before he was to testify as a trial He's discharged on the day Jerry Selection starts his doctors rule He is not able to travel from Washington to Pennsylvania

October 15, 2010 Marjorie's trial officially starts in Erie Witnesses who saw Marjorie at different locations in the highest testify in Mates who heard a confession in jail testify. One in that made inmate testify that Marjorie said all the conspirators were afraid of the death penalty and they were going to watch each other's backs. Jessica Hoopsick, remember her, sex worker who had a regular paid dates with Brian for years. She testified that one night she was on Kenneth Barnes porch and heard a conversation about a bank robbery. A woman was present, but she didn't know who. Marjorie also testified in her trial.

Uh, Jerry Clark and Ed Palatella, I wrote about her testimony. Marjorie deal Armstrong launched into a verbal reverie that lasted some five hours and twenty minutes. Over the one and a half days, she was on the witness stand. She then spoke nonstop about all the houses she once owned, all the fur coats, the ones lined her closets, and all the jewelry she had once collected, all the things she had once inherited.

That must have been a pretty entertaining deal, let's do. She said she was raised in a wealthy family and that her father sexually abused her as a child and as an adolescent and did that happen. To me, that seems like some Casey Anthony bullshit. Daddy won't keep giving her money. Now she might not get out of prison ever

if she can't throw someone under the bus, so she tosses dad under the tires. I mean, terrible if he did do that to her, obviously. But this never came up before. During any trials, interviews, nothing feels super manipulative and convenient. Yes, it still could have happened, but with her, I don't buy it.

Marjorie testified, I never met Brian Wells and I never knew Brian Wells. She said she was with Rostin daily in August and September of 2003 because James Rodin had because of James Rodin, excuse me, and because Rostin had $78,000 that belonged to her. That's a new thing she's never mentioned before. She said she had to wait for Rostin to finish up his quote business project to clean the crime scene in her house. She said the Rossine asked her to meet him at the shell station at 1.30 p.m. on August 28th and that Kenneth Barnes was there. Bill said she had to put up with him being there because he was part of the business project.

I love how she keeps referring to this business project like anyone fucking talks like like that. And if they did, like you wouldn't figure out what the project was. It's just like, like a terrible script. Hey, Marjorie, can you head over to the shell station with me? I have to make a pay phone call for my business project. What is your business project, Bill? It is a business project that would be best for me to keep private marjorie.

Okay, Bill, I will accompany you to the shell station and not ask questions about your business project. Your business project is none of my business. Therefore, I will not ask further questions. Reminds me of the Menendez brothers, no, they're fucking business talk. Do you like making money? It reminds me of the Menendez brothers, and all their fucking business talk. Do you like making money? If you do, you should call Menendez Investment Enterprises. Just a 1-800-BUSINESS. To do so much business for your business projects.

Profit, interest, return on investments. Wealth, business Co-1-800 business For your business project Make profit for your business project Revenue expense accounts Business business Co-1-800 business If you like business projects

One in front 800 after that Business money Roll up cola stock Market market, business pizza, bomb, business killing, dad, business freezing people, business, business, you get it. Anyway, back to Marjorie's bullshit testimony. She said, Ross Dean made a call on the pay phone. And when Marjorie said she wanted lunch, Bill said that he just ordered pizza and that

his friend was delivering them. Marjorie wanted a piece, but Bill said it was just for the guys. Excuse me. So she went to KFC and then to Barnes & Noble. This story is so fucking dumb. It's more of a bad script. We need to leave, Marjorie. I have finished with my business project call.

Now I am hungry and I am going to eat some pizza. Oh, great. I like pizza. Can I have some pizza, Oh great, I like pizza. Can I have some pizza bill? I'm also hungry. No, Marjorie, you may not have pizza. It is a guy's only pizza lunch. Marjorie now said she noticed

that traffic was back to one peach tree. She said she then stopped to build his house but didn't go inside. Why not? Who knows, this dumb fucking story. She said that she went home and saw Brian Wells on TV now and that was that. That's all she knows. Holy shit, that was not a good dumb fucking story. Uh, she said that she went home and saw Brian Wells on TV now, and that was that, that's all she knows. Holy shit, that was not a good out of buy story.

And the jury did not buy it. November 1, 2010, Marjorie D. Alarmstrong convicted of conspiracy to commit arm-bank robbery, arm-bank robbery, in which death resulted. And use of a destructive device and furtherance of a crime of violence, Hail fucking Nimrod. February 28, 2011, she sends to life in prison plus another 30 years. Marjorie said in court, I am not a craze killer. The true killers are still out there. Ah, no, you're pretty fucking crazy. And a killer. Three kills, actually,

has been in some serial killers. I used Attorney, uh, peace and in a, uh, Senator sentencing. She does have mental illness, but when you combine this woman's serious mental illness with her personality disorder, her narcissism, her paranoia, her deception, her manipulativeness, you combine that into one person with evil, and this is the type of crime that results. The combination of Marjorie deal Armstrong and her propensity towards violence, in this particular case, proved deadly. Bingo! Well said, both mentally ill and also evil. June 6, 2011 Kenneth Barnes sense is now reduced to just 22 years at a close hearing for his role in all of this. January 14, 2013, Marge Redial Armstrong loses her final appeal

to the Supreme Court, claims she was innocent and mentally incompetent to stand trial of course she claimed that. Just keep trying to work the system. Summer of 2013, documentary director, Trey Borsarelli still wants to ask Marjorie some questions. All of her appeals have now been denied, so we hope that she'll be willing to talk more honestly. They talk again. Marjorie tells him that she thought Brian Wells was involved in the heist and then she

became very angry when Borsarele said he thought Brian was innocent. And that was it for that day's interview. They talk again several months later, Marjorie is probably desperate for any visitors. And this time she informs him that Jessica Hoopsick was in the same prison for her as a drug charge. She said that Jessica was badmouthing her, so she had to have a conversation with her about it. Bozerle now writes to Jessica, and she responds, Jessica didn't write about the bank heist, but she did write about Brian. She said that even though he

paid her for sex, they eventually became friends. And in a later conversation with Borsair Reilly, she said, Brian took her to the doctor, helped her with grocery shopping, even met her mom and her sister. She said they had special feelings for one another, but it was not love. Jessica said, the Marjorie approached her in prison and said things like, you fucking whore, I'm going to kill you. And I don't care whether we're inside or outside of these prison walls, I'm going to find you and I'm going to send somebody after you. Yeah, that sounds like Marjorie. Jessica ended up successfully getting a restraining order against Marjorie and then was eventually moved to a new facility. She soon got out of that facility on a work

release program and requested an interview for Borsar Release documentary claiming she had something else important to say. She wanted people to know that Brian was innocent and he was a good man. She told Borsar Relly that one day she walked into Ken Barnes House, saw that Ken and a couple friends were planning to bank robbery. Ken wanted her to find a so-called quote, gofer, geo, FER, to commit the robbery. He wanted someone who would be scared into acting and would not run away or call the cops. They said the bomb wouldn't be real. It would just be a scare tactic to get the go for it to go into the bank.

And she claimed she was offered $5,000 to find the right guy. Jessica said she called Ken later asked for money in exchange for naming someone. He offered her some crack and she was like, okay, cool. And now she told him that she knew a man named Brian who was quote, a pushover. And that is how Brian was pulled into all this bullshit. The final bit of the mystery has been solved. This had to have been weighing on her conscience. Shitty that had happened, but good on her

for sharing that info when she did not need to. Jessica said she arranged to bring Brian over the next week and that Marjorie, you know, in addition to the crack, she got to get paid her $1,500 next day. Find the documentary, revealed that Jessica had a baby shortly after the heist and she believes Brian Wells was the father. So a little more sadness related to Brian, that sucks. But now for some good news.

April 4, 2017, real life wicked witch, 68 year old, Marjorie D. alarm strong dies of cancer at the federal medical center, Carzwell, near Fort Worth, Texas. Her psychotic bullshit days are over. Then on June 20th, 2019, 65-year-old Kenneth E. Barnes dies at the federal medical center at Butner, North Carolina. He suffered from diabetes, but his cause of death not immediately available. Finally, just last summer, August 10th, 2022,

75-year-old Floyd Stockton, Jr. died, someone washed in state. In January of 2023, Floyd's family members said that he claimed he wrote down what really happened in the pizza bomber plot. And then when he died, it would get into the right, fall into the right hands. I haven't heard any more about it.

Stockton's ex-wife Janet Johnson released a statement after his death saying, he was an evil, sick, rapist, abuser, and murderer who got enjoyment of showing power over other people. I shed no tears, but find peace in his death. And his daughter, Jolyne Wilson, said, I love the man he should have been. His evil won his soul.

I'm thankful I only got the goodness of him. I will find peace knowing he's gone and can't hurt or reflect his evil on anyone else ever again. And that's it. Other than minor player in all this, Jessica Hoopsick, all the pizza bombing conspirators are dead. Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely. What a weird-ass convoluted crime, right? Of course it took a while for the FBI,

ATF and local law enforcement to solve this. I mean, after Brian Wells was killed by that weird collar bomb, and then all the notes you found in this car, after they knew where he worked, even after his coworker OD'd a few days later, who on earth would have had a clue what the actual truth was in all this?

Detective Sonny Hollister here. Cheesecake factory store detective. I had a clue. and all this. Detective Sonny Hollister here. Cheesecake Factory Store Detective. I had a clue. I saw it all right from the start. A 46 year old pizza delivery driver roms a bank with a bomb collar to his neck. A bunch of notes are found in his car.

Full of robbery and scavenger hunting instructions. His 43 year old pizza rea coworker overdoses a few days later. I could have laid the whole thing out right there. Come on. Wake up and smell the bang bang chicken and shrimp. Clearly, Brian was dating a lady of the night, who saw him as an easy mark. And when she walked in on her crack dealer one night well, he was having a meeting with his mentally ill,

evil fishing buddy and a few friends who were all planning to bank robbery. That crack dealer obviously offered to pay her to bring a sucker to him to rob the bank with a bomb tied to his neck, and then be killed immediately after handing her crack dealer's fishing buddy's former fiance the money she needed to pay the crack dealer to kill her father so she could collect her inheritance before her dad spent it all. Textbook. It's all right there if you know how to look.

Now if you'll excuse me. I smell a dine and dash brewing on the back patio. It's a summer heat. It really brings out the worsen people. Okay. Sorry, that's just a really fun voice for me to do. So other than suck for a store detective, Sunny Hollister. Who could have seen that shit coming?

Nobody. It was all so fucking ridiculous. What a strange and little twisted cast of characters out there in eerie, Pennsylvania. The pizza mom or high, such a complex web of relationships, crimes, and greed, insanity. Let me summarize one more time before the takeaways. Bill Rossstein and Marjorie Diel Armstrong were once young lovers, excuse me, who met in their 20s and were engaged, but their relationship didn't work out. Still, Bill never stopped loving Marjorie, even when she descended further and further into mental illness. Even when she became a more and more terrible person. Bill and Marjorie had their own previous run-ins with the law, Bill when he hit a friend's

murder weapon, Marjorie when she killed her boyfriend. Both Bill and Marjorie were highly intelligent, cunning people. Marjorie, especially, was known to be intensely intelligent and very manipulative. One of Marjorie's favorite hobbies was fishing. That is how she met Kenneth Barnes, Ken, in addition to doing a fair amount of fishing and TV repairs, you know, also dealt some crack. And he allowed sex workers to use rooms in his house. Bringing Brian Wells to the picture now,

he had a list of sex worker contacts, one of whom was Jessica Hoopsick. Hoopsick purchased drugs from Ken, also used his house to serve his clients. Marjorie deal Armstrong's mother passed away in 2000. She and Marjorie's father once had a sizeable estate, but it had decreased significantly after her mother's death. This infuriated Marjorie, she decided to hire Kenneth Barnes to kill her dad before he used up the remainder of the money.

The remainder of his own fucking money. Marjorie thought she needed a robber bank to pay Ken enough money for him to kill her dad before he used up the remainder of the money. The remainder of his own fucking money. Marjorie thought she needed a robber bank to pay Ken enough money for him to kill her dad which set the whole crazy pizza bomber heist in motion. Marjorie allegedly asked Kenneth about building a pipe bomb and supplied the two timers that were used to make the deadly color bomb. It is believed her old flame, Bill's smartest guy in the room, Rostane built the bomb. According to Jessica Hoopsick, Barnes asked for someone they could use as a pawn to commit the robbery, and she offered up Brian, who may or may not have been involved in the planning.

The plan was finalized at a meeting on August 27th, the next day, August 28th, the color bomb was locked around Brian's neck, giving him 55 minutes to live. In the end, it seems that Brian was truly a victim. He appeared to be operating under the impression that the collar bomb was fake until it was too late to save himself. The co-conspirators set him up to die once they got the money from the bank or once he got it. The co-conspirators planned also quickly

fell apart when Bill panicked, when Brian walked out of the bank and he failed to grab the damn money. Brian tried to follow the scavenger on outlined in the notes, likely written by Bill to keep the bomb connected to him, going off in case it was real, which was, but he was apprehended moments after robbing the bank. And then he died in a parking lot surrounded by investigators when it exploded.

This twisted plot took several years to unravel. Of course it did, but it was unraveled. Kudos to some tenacious investigators. Once a van spotted by a documentarian cracked cracked the case, slowly but surely the conspirators turned on one another and revealed their versions of the truth. And through analyzing all these versions, in the end, I think we're left with a pretty clear picture of what went down. We got it just in time, just before all the conspirators died.

Time now for our takeaways. Time suck, tough, right takeaway. Number one, Brian Wells was an ordinary man living in Erie, Pennsylvania. He had a job as a pizza delivery driver running the small house that he shared with three cats. Took his mom to the movies, which considered a nice guy in his neighborhood, liked to gamble, but didn't leave value money or material things. This is why many people who knew him did not believe he could ever be a willing participant in the elaborate pizza bomber heist, even if investigators believe he was recruited and participated in the planning only to be turned into a victim at the last minute when the live bomb was locked on his neck. I think he did it all to make the woman he loved

happy. Jessica Hoopsick. Number two, who was the mastermind? Was it Marjorie D. Alarmstrong or was it Bill Rosting? While the letters in the bomb had been attributed to Bill, it was Marjorie's idea to rob the bank. She was angry with her dad because he was spending what she considered her inheritance. She wanted her friend Kenneth Barnes to kill him and Kenneth jokingly asked for a large down payment. Marjorie recruited Barnes and Bill to help her with the robbery to get that payment. To me, while the idea was Marjorie's bill was the mastermind.

If you can call anyone involved in this ridiculous bullshit, mastermind. Number three, investigators will likely never be able to say with certainty who built the collar bomb. Or if it was even one person, we think it's probably Bill. We know that Marjorie supplied some bomb components. We know Bill Ross team was a highly intelligent handyman. We also know Kenneth Barnes had magazines about explosive electronics inside his house, and was a TV repairman.

Because Rossstein died early on in the investigation, it'll be very difficult or impossible to fully prove he built the color bomb. But again, I think it was him. Number four, the last living conspirator Jessica Hoopsick changed her story during the filming of the Evil Genius Doctor series, and claimed that Brian was the go for selected to commit the robbery. This doesn't match her testimony at Marjorie's trial. Investigators have disputed her account of events, but if that wasn't the truth, why did she share it?

She was already going to be in the documentary, so it's not like she needed her 15 minutes of fame. She was already getting it. I think a guilty conscience led to her finally sharing some of the last details regarding the pizza bomber mystery. And number five, new info, Mama Mia's Pizza Ria. May 14, 2019, the Imperial Chinatba Faye on Peachtree Cut Fire, the damage spread to several nearby businesses including Mama Mia's Pizza Ria.

On June 28th of that year, Mama Mia's Pizza Ria announced on Facebook that they would be unable to reopen in their original location where they had been for 39 years. However, if you Google, Momma Meas Pizzeria, Eerie, PA, they do have an active Google listing, an active Facebook page and a website. They have reopened, or they reopened, excuse me, November 7th, 2019, at a larger location

on 38th Street. Next to a hardware store and a dollar general seems like they're still there and they sell deliver Right now you can get too small pepperoni pizzas for $19.50 plus tax Of course, that does not include a tip for the delivery driver or uh, yeah delivery guide delivery gal Be sure if you order anything to treat them a lot better than margarine her crew treat your brine wells time Chuck tough ride

Take away crew treat your Brian Wells. Time suck tough ride take away. Pete Sabamer the death of Brian Wells has been sucked. Mystery I think soft. Thanks to the guys who did the Evil Genius Docu series for putting that all together. Thanks to the Bad Magic Productions team for helping making time suck. Thanks once again to Queen of Bad Magic, Liz Cummins, to the art warlock Logan Keith producing and directing today, the suck ranger Tyler C also helping with production thanks to a bit of licks here for upkeep on the time suck app, the art warlock Logan Keith again for creating the merch at badmagicmerce.com and

for helping run socials with the suck ranger and a team managed by Ryan Handlesman. Thanks to producer Olivia Lee for all the research this week, a lot of news, paper, database, diving. Also thanks to the all-seeing eyes moderating the cult and curious private Facebook page, the mod squad for making sure Discord keeps for it smooth and everyone over on the time sucks subreddit and badmetic subreddit. Next week on time suck, holy shit. We're going to look at one of the most controversial figures of modern music, our Kelly, or he called himself the Pied Piper of R&B. He would explain to GQ magazine. I started calling myself the Pied Piper when I started using the flute sound of my music.

I was the Pied Piper. For those of you who don't know, the legend of the Pied Piper is this, the Piper was hired by the people of Hamlin, Germany, to lure away all the town's rats with his music, and then when he did so, and the adults of Hamlin refused to pay him, the Piper took revenge by luring away all of their children. How familiar was Arkelly with this story when he said he was the Piper? In the wake of disturbing allegations in 2017, allegations that he had led young women out of their parents' homes lured them with luxury and intrigue of a celebrity Then trapped young women in his properties and some kind of bizarre sex cult

That nickname would seem to speak to a much darker reality Unfortunately by the time it was widely made public this behavior was nothing new While the singer put out some iconic songs throughout the 1990s and early 2000s like I believe I can fly Behind the scenes he was praying on whichever young women were unlucky enough to fall into his orbit Everyone from the children of some of his musical Musical collaborators to kids he met visiting his old high school One of these girls was allegedly as young as 14 when R Kelly started having sex with her and though many new He had a problem first people in his inner circle then practically the whole music love in world when his sex tape with one girl

Was leaked in 2000 R Kelly continued to walk free until very recently. And recent years, incidents of abuse formally believed to have been isolated, now are thought to have been part of what some have called a full-fledged sex cult. The strange, sad, disturbing story of our Kelly next week on Time Suck. Right now, let's head on over to this week's Time Sucker Updates. I'm gonna kick shit off with the fun Cummins Law update, Super Sucker and Fun Mom. Sarah Ralston was recently shamed by her daughter. She writes, okay, hear me out, what parent doesn't love embarrassing their child? Personally, it's a burning passion of mine. Not like it do.

I have embarrassed my children in many ways, which is an entirely different story, but sadly, has now backfired. My oldest child is my daughter Nora. She's 11. She has my dark sense of humor, which makes it dangerous for us to be together in public. We were listening to the Jeffrey Lunger episode on her way to softball practice. Now, Nora either leaves practice elated and floating on cloud nine or infuriated and silently plodding

horrible things in her head. There's no one between. Anywho, this was an angry day. And she was making her way back to the car while I was talking to one of the other parents. She called out to me a few times, trying to get my attention, waving for me to get to the car. I knew she was upset and wanted to leave,

but on the adult and no 11-year-old is gonna tell me out of my life. All of a sudden sudden. She turns the key and out for the radio to come on. She timed it on my phone to the exact moment Dan started singing his off-brand profit Jeffrey Fighting Man song at full blast. Needless to say, I looked at the terrified parents faces, shrugged my shoulders and walked away. Nora won, mom zero. I've never been so proud. Thanks for reading. If you read this, please shout out Nora. She is the coolest and most unique girl ever.

And it brings me so much joy to be able to say that she is mine. Ah, keep on keeping on saying. Thank you so much. I love how much you love Nora. Nora, you sound funny as shit. For a reminder, the chorus of that song is, do you want to get pooped, don't?

I do you want to get pooped, don't? I do you want to get pooped, don't. Prof. Jeff Feet knows what you want and you want to get pooped on. I just love blasting that to all the softball parents. Zera, I hope Nora keep learning the laugh together for many, many years to come. Both Kyler Monroe have my sense of humor now and it is a joy and a terror at times.

I got annoyed by Monroe throwing food at the dinner table with her night, but then remembered that I've been balancing food off of her forehead during meals for pretty much her whole life. Sometimes at restaurants or maybe the movie theater, right? Or when she's walking on the sidewalk just mind her own business. The other night she and Kylie attacked me during dinner and pinned me to the floor in the corner. I legitimately worried about them hurting me sometimes.

I've done this to myself because I've slapped them around for their whole lives and now they're big and strong and like slapped me around. The tables are turning, but it's very fun. I'm feeling Nora is going to be tormenting you for many years to come. Now for a message, it's a little more intense from Lou Saunders. Lou writes, Hey Dan Lindsay and all the other gorgeous, totally non-reptillian, 100% humans at time suck, and both jangles who was never human to begin with.

Just finished episode 346, Mount St. Helens, and I was struck by something you said. You were talking about government regulation and oversight, regarding trying to get people to stay away from volcano, and brought up how people are generally fine with regulations as long as it doesn't fuck with anything that they want to do. You use the comparison that people who want to regulate abortions seem to generally be anti-vaccine mandate and how people who are pro-choice

when it comes to vaccines are generally also pro-vaccine mandate. And while I get how you pull that comparison, it seemed unfair to me and I wanted to bring it up. Someone getting an abortion affects only themselves, maybe their partner, if that person is is involved and obviously the fetus. It's a personal health decision and at the end of that personal decision, it has a limited impact radius. Deciding not to get a vaccine is also a personal health decision, but the impact radius has a much wider and can be much more damaging. We've seen in the past few years how folks who claim personal

freedom over objective science can have an impact on already at risk minority groups like the elderly and immunocompromised as well as people who don't have a choice but to be out and working. If you're all about personal responsibility and personal freedoms, oh, excuse me, I know you're all about personal responsibility and personal freedoms, but living in a society the way

that we do and affording the benefits of that lifestyle means that we also have some amount of responsibility for our fellow humans. Not getting a vaccine against a life-threatening virus is a choice that not only endangers the person who makes a decision, but also all of the people around them who may not have a choice. Abortion doesn't have the same impact. Normally I would not write in about something like this, but I felt it was important, wanted to point it out. I also know that the time-sub community is a safe place to vocalize disagreements. That's one of my favorite things about your podcast and the people around it. I might not always agree with you, but you go about your discussions in a respectful way. I most definitely feel like. And I try.

And I always open to learning and consider another opinions. I really appreciate that, especially considering the state of the world today. If you read this, could you please give a shout out to one of the best spacers out there, Danny M., she's the one who got me hooked on Time Suck by cleverly introducing me to the history and biography episodes before unleashing the full gambit of Weird and Crazy. She's one of my best friends since 3rd grade, and absolutely kind, selfless, kickass, amazing human, and she has saved my life more than once. Life is dealt with a shitier hand than most, but she's always done her best, and is still

not jerky to others. Love the show. Even if I don't listen to the murder re episodes, it's gotten me through some long days. Keep on doing what you do and keep on sucking. Lou. Lou, thank you for sending in a thought provoking update. And thanks Danny for getting Lou to at least dip lose toes in the time suck pool. Here's where I currently stand with the freedom to have not gotten specifically the COVID vaccine in the past few years. Do I think you should, you know, early on for the good of the general public gotten the vaccine? I do. Do I think you should have been forced to get it? I don't. Here's why. Did not, did not getting an increase

the risk of injury and even deaths of people who couldn't get vaccinated for whatever reason I did. So why would I support freedom here? Well, philosophically, I am just opposed to the government mandating most things, but also specifically with COVID, the global median infection mortality rate, more importantly, more important, excuse me, than case fatality rate. Sorry, I'm just bad at something I throw right now. For COVID in 2020, when it was the most fatal, was 0.23%, which means for every thousand people who were infected with COVID, 2.3 people would die.

And to me, that number is just not high enough to mandate a population taken a vaccine that was made for profit by massive pharmaceutical companies that in my opinion lost the right to be fully trusted when they created the opioid crisis that has killed more Americans And I'm guessing killed more people around the world than COVID has and I know Pfizer didn't specifically do that But like collectively a lot of shady shit has gone on with them that makes them you know

I think gives credence to people being skeptical to trust them Because of a low fatality rate combined with I think logical apprehension regarding Big Pharma I don't feel like people should have had their freedom and fringe to pond in this instance. But I'm also someone who doesn't think recreational drugs or sex work should be legal. I don't think the government should be able to weigh in on that shit. I don't think the government should be able to decide who gets an abortion or who gets to talk about being gay at school. I don't think the government should get to decide what adults, you know, what adult, another

adult gets to marry and a lot more. There's a lot I don't like the government waning on. And with that mentality, I also support second amendment advocates, right? You start allowing the government to take away one group's freedoms. How long before they come for yours? I just am very apprehensive when it comes to how much control the government has, how much power. Cause I'm always thinking about precedence and slippery slopes when it comes to this stuff. I do see your point.

I don't think you're wrong. I like your message. We do have a responsibility to not endanger others in society and that responsibility is what makes a lot of this, I think, very complicated. When do you lean more towards safety and when do you lean more towards freedom? I think it's really hard to know oftentimes. I freely admit, I might get it wrong a lot of times, but that's where my tendency lies

towards the freedom side. And why, I guess. Next up, a shout out request from a thoughtful sack, Courtney Hannon, who writes, salutations, bad magic team, then your specific method of madness, hilarity and thoughtfulness merge into a rare production combination

that is spectacularly informative, mush mouth and all. Thank God. I've envisioned myself writing to you for some reason or another for a while now. Honestly, I can't think of a better one than to say happy birthday to one of my dearest friends. It will be belated, but I know if this message is read aloud on the podcast, she will be more than giddy, so I must try. Katrina is one of the most genuine, thoughtful, creative, and intelligent meat sacks I've ever

known. She's also quite the chef. We met working at a copy in print shop in college, where she astounded me with her artistic skill, precision, and musical depth. Not long after, she asked me to be in her bridal party, then her mine, and the rest is history. She is now a mom to a wonderful little girl, and I'm so proud

of her for being the brave badass that she is and always was. Katie, may your next spin around the sun be one of great possibilities and joy. Thanks for all that you've taught me, including how I should listen to a podcast called Time Suck, The Cult of Curious has been passed on through me as well. So thank you, Suck Master, for taking a leap of faith.

Ford in this community, bonded by quirky, compelling knowledge, Hill Nimrod Courtney. Well, thank you, Courtney. You are too nice. And I love how much you value your friendship with Katie. I'm sure Red faced. Damn it Dan, you finally got me. I've enjoyed listing the many comments lost stories over the years and thought it would never happen to me, but alas, it finally has. I was listening to the fountain cult episode. On my way from work to pick up my daughter from daycare, the episode was interrupted by a phone call that took up the remainder of the

drive. Once I got to my daughter's daycare, I ended the call, it was hot outside, so I rolled all my windows halfway down to make sure it didn't get too hot in the car while I was inside. I picked up my daughter, I got her all buckled in, and started the car. With a parking lot full of parents, I was greeted with Danielle and add high volume. Do you have any idea how many women around the world love Jesus? I got millions of women who would kill someone to suck my dick, and yet Here I sit with a dry dick not in anyone's mouth Unbelievable and unacceptable when I say I want to speak for my heart. I mean groin now that I've said my piece We can open our beables back up

I was crammed to get the podcast to pause volume to turn down or just turn the radio off But when my radio is Bluetooth to my phone. There's a delay and everything I do I don't know why I didn't just turn the car off, but I panicked. I received a lot of shock stares from fellow parents. It's a bit hard to make eye contact with many of them now. Thanks for everything. You and the bad magic family does. I've been a fan of your standup and the podcast

from the very beginning, and your work has kept me entertained to countless hours working in my desk, long drives, doing the dishes, et cetera. I hope you keep going for many years to come. So if you had a five-starz, wouldn't change a thing. Here comes a Spoon's mother fucker.

Your loyal fan, Wes Nazbot. Oh man, thank you, Wes, holy shit. That's one of the most embarrassing coming law situations I've heard yet. I'm gonna love with you. Even if you did fully explain what you were listening to to those other parents, you're still somewhat fucked, right?

They're still gonna think you're a dirt back. But you know what, also, you're free now. You're free there. You might as well let them hear even more crazy shit. What do you have to lose? Who cares? They already think you're nuts. So how far with that?

And hail Nimrod, everyone. Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. Well, thank you for listening to another Bad Magic Productions podcast. Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. Well, thank you for listening to another Bad Magic Productions podcast. Scared to death and time suck each week and the secret suck each week for SpaceLessers. Please don't try and talk your crack-dealing fishing buddy in former fiance,

who has the body of someone you murdered in their freezer into blowing up a pizza delivery guy in order to get enough money to kill your dad this week. Just keep on sucking. And Detective Sonny Hollister here again meets Axe. Thanks for listening to today's episode. If I had been asked to weigh in on this case, of course, they would be no mystery, and no episode. But alas, I remain relegated to cheesecake factory investigative purgatory.

Thanks to a few crime scene contamination incidents, who cares if a little coffee gets spilled, you don't need all the evidence to be clean. If you have a mind like I do. Last week I caught a guy trying to walk off with someone else's to go order of Adam's peanut butter cup fudge ripple cheesecake. I knew he hadn't ordered anything from us. The second he walked in wearing his Pantera t-shirt, board shorts and Nike slides. I just thought, no.

Now you didn't order anything from the factory, buddy. You got BJ's brew house written all over you. You're not factory material. And I was right! Now, did I need to break his arm when I stopped him from running off with stolen goods? Maybe not, but you play with fire, you get burned. And I am the only guy burning anything at the cheesecake factory.

Let me tell you, everything here is cooked to perfection. Trust me, I eat here here is cooked to perfection. Trust me. I eat here around ten times a week. What's it talking about? I forget. Anyway, you take care. I got a bad feeling about the old couple that Julie just set a table 37.

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