Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 365 - The Trailside Killer

Episode Date: September 11, 2023

Between August of 1979, and May of 1981, convicted serial rapist David Carpenter escalated to murdering his rape victims, and he killed at least seven young women, and likely several other victims. He also killed the fiancé of one victim and nearly killed the boyfriend of another. David's sexually violent crimes began almost 90 years ago in his childhood, and he's still alive today, the oldest inmate on California's death row. CLICK HERE TO WATCH MY NEW SPECIAL ON YOUTUBE! Trying to Get BetterWet Hot Bad Magic Summer Camp tickets are ON SALE!  BadMagicMerch.com Get tour tickets at dancummins.tv Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/yB-HNuLEeZIMerch: https://www.badmagicmerch.comDiscord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard?  Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcastSign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits

David Joseph Carpenter is one of the oldest people on death row in the United States. And while most in prison either know him by his inmate number of C96500 or just as Dave or David, the outside world still knows him best by his dark moniker of the trailside killer. From 1979 to 1981, numerous hikers in various wilderness areas around the Bay area in California were targeted by an unknown serial killer. In almost every case, the victims had been shot in the head with a 38 caliber gun. Many of the female victims had been raped and two victims were stabbed to death. Some fellow hikers saw the killer in a loosive, nondescript man with dark hair and glasses.

One victim survived being shot in the neck by the trailside killer, but it would still be another year before he was apprehended. Carpenter is an unusual serial killer. He didn't target sex workers, or hitchhikers, or runaways, or anyone marginalized and living on the fringes of society. He targeted friends, acquaintances, or strangers, just enjoying the beauty of nature. He also didn't seem to really enjoy the act of killing. He didn't appear to enjoy prolonging the torture or deaths of his victims. He did very much enjoy the act of rape. Primarily sexually motivated, he attacked and fled quickly. Once he got what he wanted, or once he fired some shots and worried about the attention

that would attract, he was gone. And that made him harder to capture. He didn't linger with his victims. He didn't return to the kill size to relive and save or the trauma he inflicted in some way. He also was able to kill for as long as he did thanks to a pre-internet system of law enforcement record keeping that kept him off the legal radar. Carpenter was finally arrested in May of 1901 shortly after another one of his female associates disappeared. Although David asked her not to, she told her boyfriend and mother that would she that she was supposed to meet him to purchase a car and that finally put his name on police radar. At the time of his arrest, David Carpenter was suspected

of at least 10 murders. Then as authorities dug in further, investigators soon learned that his violent sexual crimes started much earlier than the trailside killings. He had a history of attacking women and children who went back to his childhood. Similar to UK serial killer, Dennis Nielsen a few weeks ago, David claimed that he did a lot of what he did because of the abuse he suffered in childhood. But like with Dennis, was he really abused or was something very, very wrong with him right from the start? He also would blame the system for never rehabilitating him during his many incarcerated stints prior to his final arrest. But would it even been possible to rehabilitate this guy? This week, a layout the key moments of David Carpenter's early life, his lengthy history of violence, the trailside killings, and how

David became the oldest inmate currently on California's death row in another true crime serial killing. It's a bummer. This monster is still alive edition of Time Suck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to Time Suck. You're listening to, Suck Nasty, former library pool boy kind of guy who still thinks it's so weird to fake pass out in front of somebody hoping that they will molest you and you are listening to time suck.

Hail Nimrod, Hail Lucina, praise beatable,jangles and Glory be to Triple M. Thank you so much for continuing to watch my new special, trying to get better on YouTube now. Thank you so much for all the views, likes, comments, subscribes and shares. It has helped continue to push it out to new people. Recording this last Wednesday, September 6th and closing in on 300,000 views. That is huge for somebody in the first 10 days who has not gone on major publicity podcasts like Joe Rogan experience or this past weekend with Theo Vaughan, two bad friends, your mom's house, et cetera.

Living in Corteil, Aida Ho has been great for limiting distractions when it comes to prep heavy storytelling podcasts, not as great when it comes to comedy networking. So thank you. Also the comments section underneath the special is becoming incredibly entertaining. So many you diminished knowledge with your statement comments and comments reference in me, possibly burning down the library of Alexandria and keeping humanity from a taining fireball wizard powers and shit at responsible Dave wrote one of these he wrote, uh, please everyone do not let this distract you from the secret knowledge that if not for the burning

of the library of Alexandria, we can be shooting fireballs and teleporting. I think it very, I think it is very suspicious. Dan never mentions this in his act. Maybe he is part of the shadow secret wizard government keeping the knowledge hidden. I fucking love wondering what people reading that must think. Like why are there so many library of Alexandria comments underneath this comedy special that never references the library? So keep it coming. Let's make it the most confusing comment section on YouTube. And also come see me do a difference

at a tour of newer material. Hope I had fun in Richmond, Virginia this past week. Looking forward to Burlington, Vermont, Chicago, Buffalo, New York, Providence, Rhode Island, and more. All dates up at Dancomas.tv. Quick merch announcement. Bring it back some old favorites. We've had some killer teas come and go.

A few deserve another life. And we have some of those up at BadMagicMertz.com right now. Like to do you even cult, bro. Want to join my cult, woody tea? Wee! And so much more. One more thing, charity. This month, we are headed to camp, and with that, we worked hand in hand

with the host camp camp, no counselors to seek a worthy camp related nonprofit. We landed on Maurice camp, also known as Project Mori. Project Mori was born out of summer camp, pioneer Mori Stines, dreamed that all children, regardless of economic status should experience the life changing gift of summer camp. Beginning as a summer camp experience, Project Mori is grown into a comprehensive

year-round youth development organization. And with this nonprofit, the support for underserved children doesn't stop at summer camp. Project Mori is committed to working to ensure young people from under-resourced communities graduate high school ready for college careers and life the bartenders at wet hot bad magic summer camp also joining us by committing to donating to 100% of their tips to project more so that is kudos to them so cool as uh you know with the total for the month will be announced later when we can factor some of that in. To learn more, please visit projectmory.org.

And now we have some hiking to do. Metaphorically, a big episode to hike through. Do you like to go hiking? I do. The whole family does. My son, Kaira, loves it. So does my wife, Lindsay. My daughter, Monroe, likes it. She likes a lot more than she used to.

When she literally would complain that trails didn't have enough beds or any beds, she wanted beds alongside the trails where you could lay down and take a nap when you got too tired. I thought that was so funny when she was little. Lindsay and I have taken the kids hiking or gone hiking ourselves down around Los Angeles and places like a Tamezco Canyon or around Will Rogers, Will Rogers State Park. We've hiked all over Coutney County Idaho, hiked a bunch around where I grew up in Rickens , Idaho, and Idaho County in different areas in and around the Spokane Valley. It's a nice little trail of a few miles. It starts less than a half mile from our house.

We've gone on vacations that are centered around hiking, places like Glacier National Park, Yellowstone, Iceland. Hiking is awesome. For us, and I imagine, for most people, it's a place to get a little exercise, but mostly to escape the hustle and bustle of life, get some peace and tranquility to disconnect, a place to get away from computers and work,

and being on your phone all the time, and checking socials, to just taking in the simple and free pleasure of the beauty of nature. I can picture myself in so many different areas I've been taking a break along some trail at an especially beautiful vista point sitting down, just enjoying the awe-inspiring ancient beauty of some big valley below. Maybe a river down in the bottom carving deeper and deeper as it has been doing for millions

of years. Maybe I'm looking across the canyon at some, you know, distant plateau or mountain range, just admiring the thick pines around me or a pristine alpine lake or even some desert scene full of cactus sandy soil and sagebrush, like something out of an old western. However, different the view is that I'm imagining

the feeling I have while experiencing it is always the same. Right, inner peace, calm, tranquility. is that I'm imagining the feeling I have while experiencing it is always the same. Right? Inner peace. Calm. Tranquility. Now imagine some stranger coming along the trail. Right? Someone dressed just like some other person out also enjoying some nature happens all the time

on a nice trail that's popular. But this stranger instead of just giving you a little wave and a smile and moving along instead of just tossing out maybe that's some view, huh? Or the equivalent. Imagine them stopping and just staring at you in some creepy and tense way and then they pull out a gun and then you know they just casually tell you something horrible like I'm going to rape you just stay quiet and you won't get killed. All that tranquility shattered in an instant as you process with the man has just said a man with cold eyes an overall vibe of just being very, very unwell. And now you remember that it's been a long time since you've seen any other hiker around

just you and this guy. And then he does rape you. But when he's done, he does not let you go. He still has the gun pointed at you. He's telling you how he still has to kill you now. You've seen his face. You'll go to the police. You're down on your knees, literally begging for your life, and he's staring down at you and smiling. He got what he wanted, and now you're going to die anyway. What a crazy sequence of final moments. From enjoying the beauty of nature one minute to being raped by a fucking mad man the next to being coldly executed.

This is what the trailside killer did to victim after victim. [♪ INTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Central Coastal California has miles and miles of beautiful scenic hiking trails frequented by thousands and thousands of people. But from 1979 to 1921, the crowds of hikers seemingly vanished in a lot of places around central coastal California. The trailside killer, as he was called by the press, had been targeting female hikers and sometimes their male partners, turning a favorite pastime of many into a very dangerous activity.

The killer stayed in one general area, but didn't stick to one location. He moved from Mount Tammel Pious in the Bay Area to the Point Reyes National Seashoor Park in Marin County, 20 miles below to the wilderness outside of the Point Reyes National Seashoor Park in Marin County 20 miles below to the wilderness outside of the city of Santa Cruz some 100 miles north. It seemed like no one in the general Bay Area of Ascinity was safe. Robert Grace Smith, author of the Sleeping Lady, the trailside murders above the Golden Gate, wrote in his book published in 1990 about David Carpenter. In the summer of 1979, the tranquility of the mountains green and blue slopes was shattered

when the first recorded homicide on Mount Temelepie has occurred. Soon afterwards, serial killings and rapes on the parkland trails began. A handsome dark-haired man with a hawk-like profile was glimpsed stabbing a woman hiker to death. This young man later dubbed the trailside killer vanished as completely as if he had never been. As a search for this unknown man continued, the residents of the idyllic communities that ring the mountain and

the sprawling nine counties, 90 cities and towns of the Bay area became fearful. The killer's unpredictable crimes swept the hikers from the windy and winding trails and isolated canyons of Mount Tammel Pius. One identified a person was quoted the same, the area is so beautiful, and now it has fallen under the rule of a madman. Arthur Grace Smith was all too familiar with the effect of these and other killings on the area. He lived near David's killing grounds and had worked as the political cartoonist for the

San Francisco Chronicle when the Zodiac killer was sending letters and cryptograms to the paper a decade earlier back in the late 1960s. Robert would spend four years writing, researching and conducting interviews for his book about David Carpenter, speaking with detectives, lawyers, and survivors. Spent a decent amount of time hiking the trails where Carpenter killed as well, familiarizing himself with that psychos former hunting ground, and especially beautiful hunting ground normally a place that felt so safe. Mount Tama Pius is a scenic mountain known as the Sleeping Lady. It overlooks San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge and has arguably the best views of anywhere in the Bay Area. But as beautiful Vistas were disturbed, of course, by David's crimes. On Mount Tama Pius, Sheriff's deputies started

to stop drivers and warn them about hiking in that location. Deputies also organized mounted patrols of the trails. But as mentioned earlier, it wasn't just Mount Tama Pius where women were being killed on the hiking trails. For 21 months, Marin County was also being terrorized by a serial killer. Some once crowded area parks were now empty. Orange signs were put up to said warning for hikers because of the tragic discovery of four bodies in the park on November 28th 1980, please do not hike alone. Everyone should hike slash camp with at least one other person and they should stay together as much as possible. Women should be especially cautious and under no circumstances travel alone

Matt and see in that as you start your hike Especially for your hike in unlike December 15th or something or even the following spring Do you head back to the car or do you think oh my god? That's terrible But you know now the police are looking and he's probably gone. He won't kill me and just go hiking anyway Okay, no need to lay out any additional context today. Let's just meet this dirtbag, starting with his birth, continuing through his life crimes many arrests, too many fucking arrests, and eventual permanent incarceration that should've happened so much earlier than it did in today's timeline. David Joseph Carpenter was born on May 6, 1930 in San Francisco, California.

A city we have been to so many times before here on TimeSuck. His parents were Elwood and Francis Carpenter. Elwood worked as a postal delivery driver and Francis was a stay at home mom. Francis Elizabeth Hart and Elwood Ashley Carpenter had married not quite a year before on August 6, 1929. He was 29, she was 22. Elwood had been married once before, had a son named William Elwood who lived in Idaho with his mother. Billy Elwood. That sounds once before, had a son named William Elwood, who lived in Idaho with his mother.

Billy Elwood. That sounds like somebody from Idaho. Sounds like some kid I could have went to school with. David was his father's middle child, his younger sister Ann was born in 1934. After Ann's birth, the family moved from whatever address they were living in, not mentioned in sources, to a house on Sussex Street in San Francisco, where David would grow up. And where David would not have a happy childhood, David was abused, growing up for sure, but where his parents, his abusers, or where his peers, or possibly both, sources are very

conflicted in this regard. Some sources say that he was beaten repeatedly and severely by his mother, but don't list out who said that testimony regarding his childhood abuse came out largely as part of his defense team strategy to have him spared from the death penalty at the penalty phase of his murder trial. Other people who knew him growing up who were interviewed by newspaper reporters or for a book about him, you know, outside of the trial, don't necessarily support the testimony of witnesses at his trial. His two siblings did not testify, for example, that he was abused, you know, throughout his childhood.

And that does leave me wondering, did his parents actually abuse him or did a few people say that they did, you know, to keep him from being sent to the electric chair, possibly? Most of the following information comes from a report by a psychiatrist, Dr. Ralph Allison, who examined David for a probation report in 1970. If Dr. Allison's name sounds familiar and you're a regular listener, well, good memory. I'll share where we met him later. And Dr. Allison's report, he notes that one of David's probation officers wrote that his pathological history went back to the age of seven.

This is when he first developed a pronounced stutter that would affect with it, uh, stick with him. Excuse me, the rest of his life. The officer wrote his parents and siblings were not fond of him at all being somewhat ashamed of his speech impediment. Ah, he's done other stuff you're going to learn. That speech impediment might not have been why the rest of the family were not too fond of him. As you will, uh, you know, soon see, almost no one was very fond of this kid growing up and for good reason, because holy fuck was he creepy and just terrible behavior. David also suffered from poor vision, thick glasses to not help with his social life. Also he was naturally left handed, but his mother and teachers forced him to use his right hand,

which did not help him with writing in class or sports and, you know, pissed him off because it was stupid and unnecessary. And he was not alone there. Uh, a time article published in 1969, contended that ever since medieval times, Stern Catholics had believed that being left handed was a sign of the devil or witchcraft. I hadn't heard that before. Burn the South, Paul, which and in the US and Britain, it was a regular practice

to retain a retrain excuse me lefties as righties and to the last few decades of the 20th century and I have heard of this you know before that was like a common thing. Some argument about how like the the world was built for right hand of people so you should learn to be right handed which is really fucking stupid when you dig a little further and do it's like or you can just adapt as needed, not make school sports and childhood in general just more unnecessarily difficult than it already is. Dr. Allison wrote at school, he was always made fun of because of the stammer

and inability to get out answers, even though he was brighter than most children in the school. Obviously that would be frustrating. To know the answers, but not be able to get them out because of a stuttering problem and then be made fun of for that stuttering problem, which adds to your frustration, which probably makes you study more or study more. A 1981 article from the San Francisco Examiner also sheds lights, Sheds Light on Davis

childhood. We'll return in a bit to more of Dr. Allison's analysis. The article said he was hate-abised classmates at Glen Park Elementary School. David earned good grades, but was known as the teacher's pet and a classroom snitch. And that did not endear him to other kids. In fact, other boys in the neighborhood often beat him up. David sometimes retaliated, tried to choke the boys, but was never able to really fight back effectively.

David's childhood best friend, Robert Gorbeck, told the paper that David was book smart and always got the best grades. But that he had trouble making friends with other boys. So he played chess with adults and played with girls his age, but the girls also not fond of him because he would break their toys and dolls. And then Gorbeck said that David would get this stupid smile on his face when he did that

as if he were just pranking the girls. Consider what he did later to women. This is really creepy, right? What a fucking weirdo. I remember kids, kind of like this from grade school. Kids who would cry about being bullied, beat the whole nobody likes me drum. Also, the first to tell the teacher,

when somebody did something wrong, against the rules, so he'd fucking snitch. Also, that creepy and weird with girls and shit. It's like, yeah, you're right, weirdo. Nobody fucking likes you. And it's because of how you act all the time. Right, there are consequences to actions. Maybe try not being a creepy little rat for a while.

See how that affects your life. Yeah, a lot of kids like this, I'm sure it could really benefit from better parenting. Better communication from parents, regarding how their behavior is affecting their social life. Other kids though, I'm sure it could really benefit from better parenting. Better communication from parents regarding how their behavior is affecting their social life. Other kids though, I'm not sure parenting would fix their problems, right? Like nurture, nature, nature is so strong in some people.

Just like some people are born with the learning disability that makes it so much harder for them to read or to excel in math or whatever. Just like some kids are not born very athletic or coordinated. They're never going to excel at sports no matter how much coaching they ever get. Right. Other kids not born with the ability to excel socially. I don't think so. Right.

We're all a little weird in some way or another, but some of us are super fucking weird, like a truly upsetting amount of weird, like a social handicap of sorts. And I think David is one of these people in elementary school. David did shit like, pulling the wings off of flies in class to shock their kids and it worked. You know, they thought it was a freak. Also a bed wetter into his early teens,

what you know, as a bed wetter myself that doesn't boost your social life real well. Former neighbor Denise Rodriguez did not say the David was abused, but said that David's family was very quiet, reserved, dignified, and aloof. She said his father was strict in demanding. And David could never seem to please him, but that his mother was very kind, at least outsiders.

So that's very different than what other people have said. Interesting to me that this is, you know, all these conflicting sources again, you know, most of them say that dad was timid and the mom was strict and dominant. Dave's old buddy, Gorbache, also said that David tried to be like five different people. With me, he was himself. When the old man came around, he would tow the line like a soldier with his mother who'd like to hug him a lot.

This is his best friend saying this. He knew he could get away with things. I just figured he's a mixed up person. Right, so was his mom really abusive or did she actually coddle him? And there's been different people in front of different people, not that uncommon really, just a form of social mirroring. Goreback said that young David was a very well groomed child, like maybe too much so, which is funny to me, said his hair was always trimmed and he wore quote, little Lord fontel Roy suits.

His clothing was another reason he was bullied. All right, so maybe mom, fucking dressed him, little to dapper, like a little weird Elizabethan character, or for school. A little Lord Fontal Roy is a book by Francis Hodgson Burnett that was first published in 1885 then adapted for the stage later for film. The character, the title character, whereas a fancy little black velvet suit

with a lacy little collar like fucking top hat kind of shit. I doubt David was wearing that. Just probably dressed up like, you know, he's going to some fancy British boarding school, but instead he's just going to public school down the street in San Francisco. And that would suck. Reminds me of my mom insisting

when I was in grade school that I wear these stupid fucking sweaters that my great aunt Fern knitted for me Holy shit where they like the ugliest sweaters you've ever seen in your life very brightly colored like weird patterns Horribly fitting like very poor fitting and yeah, and just hideous and I got made fun of big time whenever I wore those I'm pretty sure I kept accidentally losing them at school. Gorbek recalled that Sussex Street was a friendly neighborhood.

When someone was sick, his mom made him take a sack of cold at their house on the way there. Neighbors would add food, other donations to his wagon, but he did remember that no one ever brought anything to the Carpenter house, that they just weren't, you know, as well-liked. He said that Francis Carpenter and David's sister and were friendly, but neighbors thought L Wood was standoffish and uppity.

Fucking L Wood. Inside the home, Francis Carpenter was allegedly the opposite of friendly, according to author Robert Gracemith. He wrote that David's mother had an unloving, inflexible, and exceedingly domineering stance within the family group. He said that things were so bad that L. Wood left home for more than a year when David was 14. Also wrote that a lot of family arguments centered around David's pronounced stutter. Francis didn't want David to get treatment.

She once made him an appointment at the UC Medical Center, but she was reportedly so embarrassed that she took him to the door of the clinic and then left. Other times she would intentionally arrive too late to be seen for the appointment and then blame David for doodling. I don't know. I question where he's getting this. I know he interviewed a lot of people, but like family arguments centered mostly

like around David's pronounced stutter. This doesn't seem like a source for like the most family arguments, but I don't know. Francis also started to forbid David to play with other kids at school because he was getting beat up so often. I mean, that sounds don't know. Francis also started to forbid David to play with other kids at school because he was getting beat up so often. I mean, that sounds kind of protective. Whenever she did allow a child to come over to play with David,

she had a strict time limit and would order the visitor to leave at that time. David by the end of grade school was spending most of his afternoons taking ballet and violin lessons and he really resented that later in life, especially ballet. Okay, I mean, yeah, it's a fucking, I don't know, I wouldn't want to go to ballet and violin lessons either, but I don't think it's justification for serial killing later.

If only if only mommy wouldn't have sent me to the ballet, I wouldn't have to kill other people. Despite keeping them home away from bullies, David may have not, David, excuse me, may have been getting his ass beat at home by the end grade school. He would supposedly miss school for two or three days at a time, then come back covered in bruises and welts, even had a black guy in one of his school portraits, according to neighbor, Evonne Kerry. She said she did once witness Francis beating David with a belt when he dropped a milk bottle.

Okay. So, now that's not, you know, not light, but I will say kids got to be with belts quite a bit back in this time. This is a back in the fucking 40s and 50s. This would be the 40s actually. So it seems excessive, right? But also, how many times did he fucking drop those milk bottles? Was that like the hundredth milk bottle he dropped in the last two months?

Or did he drop the milk bottle right after getting caught? Like, I don't know, it's trying to skin the neighbor's cat alive or something. Right after molesting somebody, that'll make sense in a little bit before getting to why I said that again though a lot of this came out during his trial for committing numerous rapes and murders as part of a defense team strategy to try and spare him from being given the death penalty for every witness that said he was terribly abused by his parents there are others he grew up with like his best friend that did not remember him just you know constantly being beaten home the, uh, molestation reference, 1944, 14 year old David gets

caught doing some diddling and is committed. So I guess actually some of that stuff would have been like the late 30s, even more common for, uh, kids to get whacked around. Uh, 14 year old David, 1944, caught doing some diddling committed to the Napa State Hospital for sex offenses for an undisclosed amount of time and treatment. Sources don't mention exactly what these sex offenses were. We'll have more details of others going forward. Numerous sources do mention them. And so it begins.

David's pattern of either committing sex crimes or being locked up, pattern that will continue for the rest of his life. After spending some time in an unnamed juvenile detention center, David is back in school by the 10th grade attending Balboa High School. I mean, maybe he was in the Napa State Hospital for sex offences for the entire time, maybe a different place there for a little while. But then 10th grade, he's Balboa High School. He will not graduate. During the sophomore year,

he will run away from home and hide in a cabin in Redwood Grove, that his family owned, and eventually will be expelled for truancy. Also keeps getting arrested. While there are not details for all of his crimes, he was younger, perhaps the record sealed to protect victims identities or just because he was juvenile. As a teen, David was arrested five times on sex charges and suspected of many other crimes. Some people live in a Boulder Creek, a census designated place in Santa Cruz County, the place you kept frequenting, actually requested to be notified when David left the Napa State Hospital for exactly this reason. Apparently he was visiting that place quite a bit and trying to seal shit.

Also, it would spend time in other facilities. You escape once from juvenile hall, walked away twice from that facility, apparently turned into some sort of rape machine around this time as well. He laid a brag to prison inmates after another future arrest that he raped girls as a teen and said, by the time I was 18, I'd had intercourse 50 times sometimes with consent, but most often by force. It's fucking terrifying. Dr. Allison asked David when this started and David told him, I pulled down a little girl's pants for the first time when I was eight years old. That's horrifying. Clearly something may have happened to him, molestation-wise, for him to exhibit that behavior, but that's not mentioned in any sources.

Dr. Allison noted in his report that David was skilled at reading people, finding their vulnerabilities and manipulating them. So he's a monster. He believed David was acting out the ego of his mother or David was just a natural born piece of shit. And I think David read Dr. Allison and manipulated him. David's mother allegedly hated women as he did two or so he did two. Again, according to Allison. David also portrayed himself as a victim of women. Author Grace Mith wrote all of his actions stem from this belief. If blame were placed, it should it should fall upon the women, the catalyst for his rage. Dr. Alison would later label David as a mentally disordered sex offender.

And he wrote that this is so fucking ridiculous to me. He actually wrote this. He wrote that if David could just get treatment for his stuttering, it might be possible to prevent further catastrophes of the sort. Fucking what? Dr. Allison sounds like a real Dr. Dipshit. Dr. Allison also noted 1970, whenever Carpenter feels hemmed in his sexual urge climbs and the only way he can think straight is to make plans and act on them and make plans and act on them is to rape the nearest female. He's a very bright man who has many capabilities and he is not a professional criminal.

It would seem worth the state's time and money to try an effective rehabilitation approach for him for a change. This doctor truly was such a fucking idiot. In one paragraph he wrote that the only way this guy can think straight is to rape the nearest female. And also that we need to spend time and money to find an effective rehabilitation approach

for such an individual. How about fuck that shit forever? If somebody's brain is so fucked up that they can only think straight when they're either raping or making plans for raping, they are not worth rehabilitation. Sorry buddy, but you're just too fucked up. Instead of prescribing you some medicine, or going about trying to find a course of treatment, we're just gonna let you go.

Before you leave, just stop and see Johnny to get your things. And then Johnny will just take him to a room and blows brains out. Like you can't save everybody. I believe that when I started doing true crime podcasts seven years ago, and while I do try to keep an open mind about most things, I believe it more now.

Just like one symptoms appear, you still cannot cure a dog of rabies and the best thing you can do is to put it down same as true for people like David Carpenter. You can't fucking rehab somebody who's that raping. Also, I love how Dr. Allison suggests that if you just if you just fix this guy stutter, he probably stopped raping. I've never heard of something like that. David used to rape the shit out of any woman near him, but now that we fixed his stutter, he's been teddy bear. It was never about the sex, never about hating women, never about the power, never about being addicted

to feeling that he could just do whatever he wanted to do to some scared woman. No, it was just always about how he talked if he could just have communicated more effectively. Dr. Allison was an idiot. We met Dr. Allison in the Hillside Strangler's episode. Kenneth Bianchi's defense team used him as an expert witness when Ken was claiming he had multiple personalities,

which was bullshit. Dr. Allison was used all the time by defense teams as an expert witness in the 70s and 80s because he would just fucking find whatever you wanted him to find. It sure seems like, right? He would find some angle to make the jury possibly think that the defendant couldn't possibly be responsible for their actions. Around the time of David's trial, he was super into studying people.

He thought had multiple personalities. And he was writing a book about one patient who he seemed to believe had a personality who could speak with angels. Like seriously, I can't believe any of his testimony was ever allowed anywhere One of his last books before he passed away published in 2012 was called collected works volume three spiritual psychology and here is the synopsis Possession and exorcism reincarnation and the nature of the human essence are the subjects of these collected papers on Spiritual psychology by Dr. Allison Most of this information was taught to him by spiritual beings who borrowed the

bodies of two of his patients with multiple personality disorder. These spirits called themselves collectively celestial intelligent energy, CIE, individually they were named faith, hope, and charity. Their basic message was each of you humans has an essence. Listen to it. Fucking that guy is who helped lead the charge of David being abused by his parents and David's trial. So maybe not like the most credible person. Investigators were curious about David's stutter. They wanted to figure out why David's stutter seemed to disappear before enduring sexual

attacks, something noted by various witnesses throughout his life. Most experts seem to believe that in a high emotional situation, that's when stuttering can and will disappear. And now before moving on to the next date in this timeline, this feels like the least disruptive place for today's mid-show sponsor break. Thanks for listening to our sponsors. Hope you heard some appealing deals, used our codes and or landing pages to save some

money. Back to 1947 now, when young David exhibits more troubling sexual behavior. In 1947, 17-year-old David was sentenced to a California youth authority facility in Preston, about 90 miles north of his home, and charged with the heinous crimes of molesting two cousins, an eight-year-old boy boy and a three-year-old girl. So the kids playing in a park and diamond heights took them into a school bathroom, allegedly threatened them with a knife and said, my dog will bite you if you don't do what I say. Fuck my 17-year-old doing that to an eight- and three-year-old. Can you rehabilitate that person?

Someone that, you know, why they are still young, also clearly wailed enough to be able to distinguish between this kind of, you know, wrong and right. If you don't know how wrong it is to molest a three year old by the time you're 17, you're probably permanently fucked. Also these kids weren't strangers. They were his cousins. So how was he, uh, uh, thinking that he wouldn't get caught for this? Uh, wreaks of intense and like, compulsion to me,

like you've been seeing these kids, he was attracted to these kids, building a fantasy in his head, felt a strong compulsion to do something to them, and then one day just consequences be damned, just did what he had been fantasizing about. Speculating of course, but that makes him even more dangerous, right?

Somebody who just can't fucking reign it in. David will remain in custody until he was 18 and a half, then paroled in December of 1948. So that's super cool. You know, I'm a less than eight and three year old and a park bathroom and he locked up like a year in change. After already having previous sexual crimes

in your record, less than two years later, August 5th, 1950, David attempted to rape a girl he knew at his house while his parents were away. He was driving the 17 year old acquaintance to her friend's house, then asked if they could knew at his house while his parents were away. He was driving the 17-year-old acquaintance to her friend's house, then asked if they could stop at his house so she could help him clean up the living room before his parents got back. Weird, weird request, but I guess he could have said something about how he left a place, you know, in such a mess that

was thrown in such a fucking cool party, because he's such a cool dude. And now he needs to pick things up fast before his lame-o parents get home. Once inside, David got a rapie and he made unwanted sexual advances in contact towards her. She was luckily able to lock herself in the bathroom, crawl out through the window when he tried to barge in. David was bound on a charge stating that he willfully and feloniously made an assault upon a female under the age of 18 with the intent to have an accomplished the act of sexual intercourse upon said female. He was unfortunately found not guilty of this attempted rape at his trial on October 10th.

And again, when this guy wasn't locked up, he was raping or trying to rape it seems. For the next five years, we don't know a lot about what David was up to other than he did manage to stay out of prison. We'll see when we make it to his murder trial that he was still being super creepy. We don't have a lot of details. He did work as a cursor for a while, maybe that entire time on some passenger ships, but other than that, we don't know a ton.

November 5th, 1955, 25-year-old David Carpenter marries 19-year-old Ellen proceeds to relentlessly fuck her for years. Ellen's last name I mentioned in sources, Ellen would later report that David had a quote, enormous sexual appetite, and had to have sex three times every night. Every night?

Three times? I mean, I'm all for finding time, especially when you're that young to have some real fuck fest, you know, get after it. Staying back all day, you know, just fuck, snack, and sleep, but three times every night.

Feels like a lot. Author Grace Smith wrote, Ellen was a model of the 50s wife. She stayed home. She didn't drive and Carpenter picked out their house for her. So he has her under his thumb. Couples first son Michael David born September 1956. Their daughter Gabriel Louise, born July 3rd 1958. Their third and final child, Cersei Ann, born June 3rd, 1958, their third and final child, Cersei and born June 17th, 1960. And when David was not having lots of sex with his wife, he was probably getting away with tons of rapes.

July 12th, 1960, David Carpenter now 30 makes an assault that he will get caught for. This is horrific. He attacked 32 year old Lois D. Andrade. Lois was a secretary for an advertising company that did business with Pacific Far East lines. This ship company that were David was working as a perser. So passenger ship company ended some freight. Excuse me.

Lois had known David for two years. They met through a mutual friend and she'd had coffee with him. She would say later, you know, four to five times before this incident. On her birthday, June 7th, 1959, David invited her to his home, Ellen made her and everyone else dinner and cake. David even called Lois to tell her that Ellen was pregnant with her third child,

so you know, they were fairly close. And on July 12th, 1960, David offers this woman Lois a ride to work. But instead of driving her to work, he drives her to an isolated spot and then brutally attacks her with a fucking hammer while holding a knife on her. How long had he been fixated on her for him to do this? The whole two years, he knew her.

The attack occurred at 9.30 in the morning near Battery Bailey and Artillery site in the Presidio, a park and former US Army post in San Francisco. Military police officer, Jewel W Hicks was in his patrol car, thankfully, and saw David's car go into a lonely spot that morning. He continued his parole, then went back to check on the car from the top of a 30 foot bank.

He now looked down and saw David pinning a woman down and beating her with a hammer. He waited a few minutes, minutes, to make sure that this was an attack and not some sort of consensual fantasy being acted out. The area had long been a hotspot for couples in the hammer play and he didn't want to risk being accused of kingshaving. No, it was immediately clear that that was super fucked up. Hicks would tell the San Francisco Examiner later, even when he saw me coming down the hill, he kept hitting her. Then he swung at me. I blocked him with my arms, pulled my pistol. He dropped the hammer and ran. Hicks then chased David, who picked the hammer back up. Once he caught up to him, David charged the MP swinging his hammer, screaming and rage during an ensuing struggle. David took out a fountain pen tear gas gun he had.

Like, what the fuck did he have that probably been using it on other women he'd been attacking and he shot it into the MPs face Hicks luckily was able to fire off three shots two of which hit carpenter and incapacitated him so hail jewel Hicks almost killed that fucker that day David unfortunately underwent life-saving surgery for five hours and two 45 caliber slugs were removed from his body. Lois would survive. She suffered a school fracture and lacerations on her hands. I had to go undergo surgery. Lois told officers that she was standing on the street near her apartment when David drove by offered her ride to work. Once in the car, he insisted she arrived with him to the Presidio to see his wife and baby. Once I got to the area, said

it was lost. Then he drove to the spot near the abandoned artillery sites. When he parked, he suddenly pulled a knife out of his pocket and just said, I have a sex quirk. You do as I say or I'll cut you. He says this to a woman he is known for two years. Hey, Lois, did I ever tell you I have a sex quirk? You're gonna help me with it, or you know, I'm a fucking cahya.

When Lois refused to take off her shirt, David grew enraged and then he attacked her. He dragged her out of the car, in dual weed patch and that's when he started assaulting her with the hammer. When David's wife Ellen was informed of this attack, she only said it was out of character for David Act that way. That's some weird shit to say. It seems like something along the lines of what the fuck he did fucking what? Holy shit, you have to protect me and the kids will be more appropriate. But you know, we all handle stress differently, I guess. David was charged with one count of assaults with intent

to commit murder and two counts of assault with a deadly weapon. According to former FBI agent John Douglas, David lost his stutter while making demands to Lois. Lois said he now spoke slowly and deliberately, which was different than the way he normally talked. Lois, DeAndrade, later changed her name to Lois Rennah, and she is actually the mother of TV personality, former soap actress star and real housewives of Beverly Hills star, Lisa Rennah. Born just three years after that attack, the attack was discussed in the April 16th, 2019 episode of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Lois, who was 90 years old at the time, said,

that was a really bad thing. I knew him. I thought that was it. He's straddling me. He had a hammer in one hand at a knife in the other. That is such a fucking nightmare. Lisa didn't learn what happened to her mother until she was older.

Lois finally explained to her daughter that the reason she had metal plates in her head and was unable to smell was because of that attack. Lisa said, why finally learn the truth? I had such great sadness and empathy for my mom, knowing that not only did this happen to her, but that she basically stuffed those feelings for how many years? She never dealt with it. She never talked about it She never even told her daughter about it. It takes so much courage to come forward November 15th, 2021 or 2021 excuse me Lisa Rena shared on Instagram that her mom had passed away after suffering a stroke the week before at the age of 93 so at least she went on to live a long life

Let's now transition back to David's court case September 21st,, a federal grand jury and diced David on four counts of assault against Lois and also against Jewel Hicks. October 31, Halloween, 1960, David pled guilty to the reduced charge of assault with a deadly weapon for the attack on Lois, which helped him avoid a 30-year sentence, maximum sentence for this charge five years.

So that's just great. December 7, 1960, David is sent to federal prison for a 90 day study, right before jury selection for the trial starts. David changes his plea to guilty for the assault of jewel Hicks. March 9th, 1961, he ascends to 14 years in federal prison. After his 90 day study, it is determined that he should be imprisoned in the interest of society. Yeah. However, the judge recommended that the federal parole board release David, at any time, he is considered rehabilitated. The judge and I very much differed on who is able to be rehabilitated. While in prison, the psychiatrist reported that David had a multi or had a personality

disorder, which manifested itself by hostility towards women. Testing also determined that David had an IQ of 125, just a tick below genius on many IQ charts. You know what he was doing. March 27th, 1962, David and Ellen get divorced. Ellen did not allow visitation with the children while David was imprisoned, good for her, considering what he was fucking charged with. David later saw his kids sporadically when they were adults

during the brief time he lived freely. On April 7th 1969, eight years later, David is paroled from prison. After David's 1969 release, he starts attending group therapy. It won't fucking work. Holy shit, he is about to go berserk. He met a woman though in therapy named Helen, and she was a clerk typist at a college five years younger than him. Helen divorced as well. They hit it off real fast. August 8th, 1969, they get married. He's been out of prison a whole four months.

What happened to you, Helen? Did you know what he had done? If so, how did you rationalize? Still saying even hello to that motherfucker. Let alone marrying him. December that year, David stops communicating with the parole board, even though his probation wasn't supposed to end until 1974 and nothing is done. So that's cool.

It's not like he's some guy who raped and or molested a bunch of people as a kid and then tried to be a friend of death with the fucking hammer when she wasn't cool with him raping her. You know, probably not somebody who, now we should be keeping a close eye on. January of 1970, Helen, who was described as a naturally high strong woman driven to the edge of a nervous breakdown. Of course she was. She's married

married to this piece of shit. Traveled to Hawaii for vacation, leaving David home alone right, five months after being married to David. She's on the edge of a breakdown. I can only imagine how horrible their sex life was. Right. She never said what he was in due or how often he demanded they fuck, but I pictured all being very terrible. Author Grace Smith wrote, The pressure within him began to reach insurmountable proportions since the safety of Alva sex with a marriage was not there during his wife's absence. Though Carpenter hit it well, his self control had eroded to a dangerous degree. Some sort of crisis was building within him, and he began to make plans. January 27th, 1970, David crashes his car into the vehicle of 19 year old Cheryl Lynn Smith

on highway nine, your Boulder Creek. And when she got out of her vehicle, David attacks. I hadn't heard of this one before. Just attacking somebody who you just been in a car accident with him. Drags her into the woods, rips her clothes off like a fucking animal, stabs her repeatedly and tries to rape her. She was stabbed in the face, shoulders, arms, hand, and back. David said he would follow her home, bandage her up if she didn't call the police. Somehow after all that, Cheryl managed to get back to her car

and escape. Cheryl was fucking tough. And she did go to the police, Hale Cheryl. She described her attacker as white, 30 to 35 years old, five foot 10, 160 pounds with brown hair. David went home that night to change clothes and get some supplies. He knew he would be identified soon because his car was registered in his wife's name. And Cheryl, he thought it had possibly gotten

his license plate number. Yes, she did. Sure enough, he soon hears the San Francisco, or a San Francisco police officer beating on his front door. He now escapes out the back door, walks all the way to daily city, sleeps in an abandoned house, and then hitch hikes to Santa Cruz the next morning and goes on an insane rape spree. Guess he decided to get in as much fucking attacking as he could before they caught him

again. The next day, so January 20th, they he hitch hikes to Santa Cruz. Uh, David breaks into the home of a woman named Wilma Joyce McDonald, age not listed in sources. Wilma was out with her two boys who were seven and three. When the trio returned home, Wilma saw David sitting in a chair in the living room, wearing her husband's robe and holding a shotgun. How unbelievably terrifying.

David orders all of them to lie down on the kitchen floor, tells the boys to then go to their room, makes Wilma come with him. Kidnapps her, drives her to the cabin once owned by his parents, rapes her, and then drives her back home, like you think she's some kind of fucking gentleman, and then steals her car and leaves. Next day, morning of January 29th, David now holds a woman named Sharon O'Donnell at gunpoint in her apartment, her apartment parking garage, excuse me, in daily city. Forces are into her car, ties her hands. When he is switching the plates from Sharon's car with the ones from Wilman's car, I'm sure

getting ready to rape her. Luckily she manages to escape and then he steals her car and leaves. And now five days later, still hiding out from the cops. On the morning of February 3rd, David Robb's 45 year old Lucille Davis at gunpoint, Tyser to a bed in the Ray Taylor home, where she was working as a cleaner. Seals $3 from her, steals her car. If he did rape her, she did not report that to authorities. And I imagine with how under reported sex crimes are, there were probably other victims in this little several day spree here that just never came forward. 45 minutes after that, David enters the home of a young mother named Barbara Rob.

Holds her at gunpoint, demands her money in keys, forces her and her infant son to come with him, drives them to a campsite in an area called sheep ranch where he rapes Barbara, then forces her to drive him to the outskirts of Oakdale. And while she's driving, he holds her fucking kid. Also keeps his gun pointed at her. He smiled at Barbara and said, it's been a long time since I held a baby this small. Barbara would later recall, I remember him as quite kind.

He was especially gentle with my baby. What? What? How was that a quote from her? I mean, it's very kind. I mean, other than the raping, of course, less kind with the raping. This piece of shit now finally arrested at a Greyhound bus depot in Modesto.

That evening after a massive man hunt, Sheriff's investigators had identified carpenter after Cheryl Lynn made her report. She had managed to get his license plate number. Uh, thank God, David now charged in two places Santa Cruz County and Calvary's County. David's charges include rape, attempted rape, kidnapping, robbery, burglary, and assault. All that happening less than a year after he was released from prison, right? A few months after he stopped visiting his parole officer. Also, since sex crimes, typically again,

not reported, I highly doubt those were the only women he attacked. Right, how long did he wait after being released before this poor impulse control having mother fucker started attacking? Like a day, a week, less than two months later on the night of April 26, 1970, David Carpenter for other inmates escape from the Calvary County jail. Uh, uh, the five men were housed in one of six cells in the jail during a routine check at 11 30 PM. A staff member found the men missing. David and the other inmates luckily recaptured

the next day. Hopefully he didn't do additional stuff. A few days later, May 1st, 1970, David receives a five year to life sentence for arm robbery. For kidnapping, he receives a sense of one to 25 years. For auto theft and escape, he sends to five months to five years on each charge. All right, he takes a, takes a plea deal here. Two and a half months later, July 16th, 1970, grand jury indicts David on even more charges than Santa Cruz County. He's already serving time in Calaveras County for the other stuff. That fall, October 5th, 1970, David pleads guilty to rape and armed robbery. A few weeks later, October 29th, sentenced to 20 more years in prison.

But of course, because I'm telling this story, that won't happen. It's all gonna be concurrent and he will get out way, way earlier than he should have. Despite all those convictions and sentences, despite the shit happening after he just got out of prison for trying to rape another woman and be near to death, you know, trying to beat her to death with the fucking hammer.

Despite all the sex crimes he was found guilty of committing as a kid as well, less than nine years later. May of 1979, David Carpenter released to a federal halfway house in the tenderloin district. I truly do not understand how people can hear about cases like this and still be cool with how lenient our justice system is when it comes to dangerous, sexually motivated violent predators. I don't think the primary focus with these fuckers should be rehabilitation.

It should be permanent removal from society, whether it's through lifelong incarceration or execution. Right, David should have never been able to walk free again after all the shit we've gone over. One study from 1985 I found on the website for the US Department of Justice Office of Justice programs found that recidivists were most likely to be young males who had not graduated from high school. Check. Release ease with juvenile arrest convictions or incarceration for more likely to recidivate than those without juvenile criminal histories.

Check. Those with two or more prior incarceration's probation revocations or parole revocations were more likely to recidivate. And again, check. On the website for smart, the US office of sex fenders sentencing, monitoring, apprehending, registering and tracking. I found that in a 2007 study for sex offenders, they had a violent crime recidivism rate of 42.9% within the first dozen years of being released. And as high as that is, they noted that recidivism

rates are not true reoffense rates because sex crimes are so under-reported. They then cite additional studies that show that roughly one in four or less of sex crimes are ever reported to authorities, and that most of those reported crimes do not end in convictions. They cited other studies that revealed sex defenders discussing sex crimes with prison counselors while in treatment programs, and when referenced, like what their confessions, whenever they're talking about these attacks, when those attacks would be referenced against their arrest reports,

only 5% of the crimes they admitted to were crimes they'd actually been charged with. So they had gotten away with 95% of their sex crimes. So while this is again me doing some speculating, it sure fucking seems like when you zoom out, look at all these numbers. When you look at study after study, that revealed the brains of violent pedophiles

and rapist display that they, you know, even when they're not acting on sexual impulses, they still have the same sexual impulses, they got them into trouble. It seems like these particular zebras to reference the old idiom do not change their stripes, right? They just get better at hiding them for a while sometimes. Finally, because David was in federal custody at the end of his sentence, he would not be put on the

California sex offender registry. Back when agencies communicated with each other way less off in the now. And since the police will look at the California sex offender registry during the trailside killer investigation when trying to find their serial killer, this glitch in record keeping will delay his next arrest for even worse crimes. Less than three months after this after this asshole is released on August 19, 1979, 44 year old Eddacane is murdered in the Mount Tammelpaya State Park. The trailside killers first known murder victim and the first known murder in the park's history. It had been established back in 1963. Edda was a married bank executive who enjoyed being active.

She was last seen alive by someone who knew her at 10 a.m. August 19th when she went on to hike on Mount Tammel Pious. Several people later saw her hiking that day. Edda told her husband John that she'd be back home around 2 p.m. when she did not come back home that afternoon. He called the Sheriff's Department, reported her missing, and a search was quickly initiated. Edith's partially clad body was found at 7.45 p.m. August 20th, 75 feet off the rock springs trail. One source said that all she was wearing was a single sock. Oh man, so her body found the next day. Initially, no foul play was suspected

because typically that is what Edda would wear when she went hiking. That's not true. It might have been super fucked up for me to share. It just hit me as an intrusive thought and not thinking about how horribly tragic this obviously is. I just couldn't stop imagining someone as I was doing my research who frequently went hiking

but just always wore one sock. Like that was their hiking outfit, which is one sock. Just forget I said anything. Eddys Carr was found parked at the mountain at home in parking lot. She had apparently started her hike there. Eddys was attacked from behind, had a bullet wound in the back of her skull. She was found on her knees with her face on the ground and the police believed that she was possibly, if not probably, forced to show subservience to the shooter or maybe begging was begging for

her life. They kill her stole 10 bucks for credit cards and her glasses. At his autopsy determined that she was shot with a 44 caliber gun and was the victim of an execution style attack autopsy would determine that she was not raped. And I'm guessing the only reason she wasn't was because like lowest before, you know, she wouldn't do what he wanted. So he attacked her. Then once he fired that shot, maybe he was worried it would just bring unwanted attention and he just, you know, split. No one could think of who would want to hurt Eda. Five days after Eda's murder, August 24th,

the Marin County Sheriff's Office released composite drawings of two suspicious men, seen on Mount Tammel Pies August 19th. First man described as wearing a dark blue hooded sweatshirt, dark blue jogging pants, white mid 30s, six foot, 160 pounds. Second man white 25 to 30 years old, blonde collar length hair wearing cut off shorts, a shirt and a backpack and described as athletic and muscular. Neither description if the witnesses had seen David would end up matching what he looked like, unfortunately. Little over two weeks later, September

6, 1979, David is released from the halfway house. He had been staying at one that clearly did not keep him from killing and he moves back in with his parents on Sussex Street back to his childhood home, delightful. The bands back together. Uh. Dave would later testify that he wanted to go live with his brother, but his dad was in his 80s, his mom was in her 70s. He talked to his sister and her sister and brother agreed that he should live with his parents so he could help look after them. And they probably didn't want that creepy fucker,

live around it either of them. If he had been horribly abused by them, would he have been encouraged to go live with them? I mean, maybe, but again, I wonder if his child who was that bad at home. While he was committing his new horrific crimes against hikers, David pretended to have a normal life, graduated from the California trade school after taking computer printing courses and got a job as a type-setter instructor at an agency affiliated with the school. David's pro-officeers didn't initially suspect he was at his killer because he was meeting

all the conditions of his parole, part of which was staying in Northern California. He was curiously not required to get psychiatric treatment. After he was arrested, the US parole commissioner told the San Francisco Chronicle, he's on everything you could ask anyone to do in terms of complying with his parole supervision. Huh. October 21st, 1979, 23-year- old Mary Francis Bennett goes out for a trail run. Never come so. Group of hikers found her body by following a bloody trail near the palace of the Legion of honor at lands and in Lincoln Park, right in San Francisco. Her body was still

warm. She had been stabbed 25 times and buried in a shallow grave. Some people at a nearby golf course could hear her long agonized screams, but did not see her get attacked. Not sure how hard they tried to find her and help her if they tried it all. Police officer said she was quote butchered. Mary had grown up in the little town of dear lodge Montana, moved to San Francisco after graduating from accounting school in Montana. She was working as an intern at an accounting firm and when she died, she was wearing a teacher that said, hell's accountant. Carpenter was suspected of this crime after his arrest, but the police had a hard time building

a solid, solid enough case against him in time for his trial. But based on evidence, I'll share before this episode is over. Yeah, he killed her for sure. By 1980, David was no longer working as a type-setter instructor. Not sure what happened there. Probably creeped in people out and got fucking asked to leave. Uh, now he was working for Gems of the Golden West, a small firm that made keychains and other novelty items and sold them to gift shops,

automotive stores, and other merchandiseers. Florence and Jack Newman, longtime family friends, hired David as a warehouseman after he finished a printing course stores and other merchandisers. Florence and Jack Newman, long time family friends, hired David as a warehouseman after he finished a printing course at the California Trade School in Hayward. Did they know what he went to jail for? Like, could you hire one of your friends kids? If you knew that they did what David did, I could not. I'm not sure I could hire my own kid if they had David's arrest record. Like, I love my kids' death, but if they did that shit, I'm not sure I could, you know, remain in their lives. Hopefully, I'm not sure I can hire my own kid if they had David's arrest record. Like I love my kids to death, but if they did, that's it.

I'm not sure I could, you know, remain in their lives. Hopefully I'm never faced with a choice that difficult. David had to travel to cell key chains and detectives later wonder if David might have been involved in several homicides based in locations he was traveling to. Like in September of 1979, 1979 Carol Lofflin went missing. Carol worked in the Curry Village gift shop in your 70 national park. And gems of Golden West or gems of the Golden West did supply items to that gift shop.

David had been there to drop off supplies, you know, several times. Carol's remains found at the base of a tunnel near Cookie Cliff, April 28, 1980. On Thanksgiving day, 1979, a woman named Diane Steffey found strangled at the entrance to Henry Cowell Redwood State Park. David, often in that area of the park for work as well. 19 year old Jennifer McDowell last seen waiting for the bus outside of the Santa Cruz hospital, May 27th, 1980. Body found October 19th of that year. David also frequently in and around Santa Cruz.

David would not be charged with any of these murders due to lack of evidence. But many members of law enforcement sure seemed to think he was the killer. It would only make sense that he killed these women and many, many other women around this time. Hit a very stressful job, right? He had to move a lot of fucking key chains and he couldn't focus. If you'll recall what Dr. Dipschit aka Dr. Ralph Allison said about him, unless he was planning or committing rapes and he still had a stutter. I mean, he's still stuttering. How's he supposed to not rape if he's stuttering? March 8th, 1980, 23 year old Barbara Schwartz killed inside the

Mount Tammel Paya State Park. Barbara was out hiking with her dog that day on 5.30 pm, a bystander witnessed a man attack her and stab her to death. The witness said the barber's dog was barking as the man approached. He suddenly stabbed Barbara in the chest with a knife. They fought for almost a minute, a minute, and he ran away when Barbara fell to the ground. The woman who witnessed this then ran away to get help. So the police were able to quick did, you know, go run to get help. So the police were able to quickly process the crime scene and take her report.

Unfortunately not able to save her. The witness described the killer as a young Caucasian man wearing a dark jacket and dark jeans. She said he had a hawk nose and dark hair. Unfortunately her description not accurate and she would later admit that in court, which is fucking weird. Crazy that she watched this whole attack and then couldn't relate a reliable description of the guy.

Yeah, yeah, I really fucked up. I mean, you would think I would have described him more accurately since I sat and watched the entire murder play out while he had some popcorn drink, etc. But I guess I was just too distracted by all the action. Other hikers reported seeing a man wearing glasses who looked to be in his 40s. I'm sure she was, you know, terrified and stressed out, obviously. He was wearing a raincoat. Dave was 49 years old at that time.

So, you know, their description fairly accurate, but they didn't get a close look at him. Barbara had been living in Marin County for a year and a half. She baked bread, sold it to people in the area, all slight to go hiking, which is why she lived near the trails. Her dog, Lady, was found alive near her body, but then Lady was youth-nised for being a worse little bitch who didn't do shit, save her mom, but then Lady was youthized. For being a worse little bitch,

who didn't do shit, save her mom, you know? Good, if a dog can't or won't help you, your time of need, you gotta fucking put it down. Fuck, Lady, shameful. Investigators quickly determined that Barbara's purse was untouched and her cabbid in Tampa, Pius, hadn't been broken into a robbed.

Barbara had 12 horrific chest wounds. The pathologist estimated that the killer used a 10 inch knife to repeatedly stab her. And a butcher knife was later found in the area by two teens on March 8th. The sheriff's investigator said it was highly probable that that was the murder weapon. The knife was found in a ravine very close to the trail where Barbara's body was found. The teen boys didn't touch the knife, but a member of a channel 2 TV crew, whom the boys led to the knife, did pick it up like a fucking idiot. Fingerprints, shithead. Oh and also, I have no idea what happened

to Lady the Dog. I'm guessing she was taken by family. What was she supposed to do? My little doodles, Penny and Deity, they wouldn't do shit to save me or Lindsay or the kids if any of us was attacked. I think witnessing real violence might actually cause both of their little sheltered and pampered asses just to drop dead of a heart attack or something. They would just fall over, just dead of sadness. March 14th, 1980, Marin County investigators revealed that they had recovered eye glasses

that probably belonged to the man who killed Barbara. The glasses found in the scene on March 8th still had blood on them, but investigators didn't know who they belonged to. They did actually belong to David Carpenter, who got his prescription for those glasses found in the scene on March 8th still had blood on them, but investigators didn't know who they belonged to. They did actually belong to David Carpenter, who got his prescription for those glasses from the same fucking doctor that Barbara used, but that wasn't caught here. The Sheriff's Office sent out descriptions of the glasses to optometrist.

Glass-grinder is an ophthalmologist. Glass will prescribe for someone who's right ear was lower and closer to the front of his face and the left ear. Sheriff's Office hoped this unique clue would help them find the front of his face than the left ear. Sheriff's office hoped this unique clue would help them find the owner of the glasses and fortune would not, even though they quickly put up posters around the area, asking if anyone had seen a man with a quote, lopsided fucked up weird-looking ghoul face. Someone who was quote, highly unfuckable. Someone who quote, looks more mup-up than man. No, I don't think they put up any of those posters.

Sheriff Al Howenstein confirmed that human blood was found in the butchers knife and the knife had recently been on sale at Safeway and it was only available in Marin County at the Mill Valley Safeway. So bingo, bingo! That was a nice break. It'll help later in trial, but it won't help find the guy, unfortunately. Investigators check lists of recently released convicts and those with a record of sex crimes to see if any of them were glasses or had weird monster faces. They really did check the list, but David, of course, his name doesn't show up because, you know, of that whole federal versus state crime paperwork mix up, where he's not put on the California list. In the summer of 1980, the police in the Bay area asked the FBI for help with the trail side killer case and special agent John Douglas, we've met him a few times, and emerging superstar profiler who worked for the FBI's behavioral science unit would put together

a very good profile. Douglas traveled to San Francisco to look at the crime scene data and case photos. He believed the killer would be familiar with the area and that the killer would be shy, reclusive, and may have a speech impediment. Boom, boom, boom. Interesting that he nailed a speech impediment. Does having a mush mouth? Is that technically speech impediment? Is that making you primed to become a sexually motivated serial killer? Local psychologists described the potential killer as charming, sophisticated, and attractive. However, Douglass thought he was the type of person to be unsure of himself in social situations,

which would be more accurate. Douglass thought the killer chose victims of opportunity. He believed he was white, intelligent, blue collar, spent, and had spent time in jail, right? And again, check, check, check, check. So the killer's MO was to attack from behind and become aggressive to overwhelm the victim. It also was true. And most in many cases, the killer would have a history of at least two out of three background indicators,

he said, fire starting, bed wedding and animal cruelty. And we have learned since that the so-called McDonald's triad of bed wedding, fire starting and cruelty towards animals in one's youth, not the indicator of future criminal violence we once thought it was. But still, Douglas nail it with David. There was, I mean, the flies we referenced, they didn't mention specific things, but some sources mentioned other instances of unnamed animal cruelty.

And we know that the bed wetting was a big thing. Douglas believed that the killer had raped before, but not killed, and that the killer had recently experienced some precipitating stressors. Right? He was good. He was good. I mean, he had right before many times, but doesn't seem he'd killed task force members, though, were skeptical about this, especially about the speech impediment detail and they basically ignored it. Doug has explained to them the factors that indicated shyness or shame.

These secluded crime scenes, the method of approach, the fact that the killer did not approach the victim in a social situation. Overpowering a victim gave the killer, he said a sense of compensation for his handicap. So now they do have a detailed profile that was very accurate, but they have no suspect to compare it to at this time and investigators, again, the non FBI investigators, they don't put a lot of stock in this, profiling pretty new at this time Too bad, they didn't latch onto that note about the stuttering, right? That would have helped, you know, catch him a lot sooner than he was caught. I'm guessing October 11th, 1980, 19 year old Richard Stowers, Dick quota for this episode met

an 18 year old Cynthia, moreland, both go missing. and sendi were engaged rick was station with the usco scarred the two rock coast guard training base and senti had recently graduated from rancho cotate high school sendi and rick were last seen leaving the home of one to sendi sisters in pacifika they were supposed to go to rick's military training station sendi's father ronald said it didn't occur to him that they would stop to go hiking on October 11 some hikers at the point Rez National C-shore here gunshots between 1 and 2 p.m Just four days later October 15th 1980 26 year old and Alderson Found dead in the Mount Temple Pius State Park and

Body found a quarter mile east of mountain theater on Mount Temple Pius Less than 10 miles from San Francisco, her car found near her body and had been shot in the head at close range with a 38 caliber pistol. Found, propped up, face up against a rock, it appeared that she may have been forced to kneel before she was killed, similar to the edicaine murder. And was found closed. Spurm was found in her body, though indicating, of course, she'd had sexual intercourse around

the time of her death. And one of her earrings was missing. Just one. This little earring detail will come up again with at least one more body. And last scene by a part caretaker at 5 30 pm, October 13th, sitting at the mountain mountain theater, just two days after the murders of Rick Stowers in Cynthia Moreland reported missing on the morning of October 14th by her father, Robert, supposed have come home the night before and a search party had organized a look for her. According to author Robert Grace Smith, the park caretaker also saw a man in the area around the age of 50 standing by himself. David was 50 this time to other witnesses saw and near the area where at a cane have been killed. The next day two more bodies found bodies that

will distract investigators for a bit from looking for the real trailside killer. October 16, 1982, two people found dead near Mount Tampa, Pies inside a home. The victims were 45 year old Edwin McDermond and his 75 year old mother Helen at 8 30 PM Sheriff's deputies forced their way into the home at the request or into their home with the request of a family friend find Edwin's body line in the hallway to the left of the living room had a bullet wounds to the head and chest Helen's body found in the locked bedroom. She was lying on the bed covered by blanket been shot once behind the left ear There were eight spent 22 caliber casing scattered on the floor Five of those found near Edwin's body one was in the living room near the door to Helen's room

One was near a bookshelf between Edwin and Helen's rooms and one was in Edwin's room. That we just found a padlock door leading into the basement. They break in. They find a creepy ass note stuck to the back of the door, addressed to shitheeals, and it stated that by the time the note was found, the reader would be way too late. Said the writer would either be on the news or on a slab. And the note was signed Mr. Hate. Edwin's brother Mark had been living in the basement. The police found spent 38 caliber casings in his room, three live rounds of 22 caliber ammo and ankle

holsters for a handgun and a knife. The corner said it was not possible to determine an exact time of death, but samples of the vitrious humor fluid from the victim's eyes suggested they died three to four days previously. A few days later, the local papers, the Marin County Sheriff and other staff members received letters from someone claiming responsibility for these murders. A writer said he would not be captured alive. A handwriting expert testified that the writer was the same person who wrote that creepy note found on the basement door. The police decided to publish a letter addressed to Mark, giving him a phone number to call and saying that he would be treated fairly if he surrendered. Many authorities, many members of the press, thought that the author of the letter was

the trailside killer and David had to have loved that. Mark Medurman called authorities on the evening of October 24th said he would consider giving himself up but had to do some things first. Called two days later, shared some details about the murders, only investigators or the killer would know. Said he tried to kill his mom and brother quickly, but miscalculated, had to shoot Edwin five to six times. He said he just wanted to stop Edwin from hurting others and to prevent his mom from

realizing that he killed him. Mark turned himself in the next day. He was wearing a belt with a 38 caliber revolver in it, had a set of thumb cuffs, three speed loaders, investigators found a 22 caliber pistol, 12 gauge shotgun, some ammo, a metal box with hyperdermic syringes and insulin in his car. Please quickly learn that his brother Edwin had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and that Edwin's condition had deteriorated and Mark called him it or the thing. In the six months before the murders, Mark had told a friend more than once that he didn't know what would happen to Edwin once their mother died.

And that one day he would quote, put it out of its misery. Mark burrowed the guns, used in the murders, borrow, excuse me, now burrowed, he burrowed, he fucking dug a small hole in the yard where, you know, maybe a badger could live. He decided to put his guns there. Now he borrowed the guns, used the murders and prepared to go out on the run for months, said he acted out of diminished capacity and indicated he also had schizophrenia.

Evidence showed that Mark had a long history of experiencing headaches and blackouts. Mark soon claimed he didn't remember the murders or that he remembered things differently. Mark was not found legally insane, was found guilty of first degree murder since the death in November of 1988. He would die of heart failure in 1988 at the age of 42. Now the police would rule Mark out as the trailside killer, a little after his arrest because

none of his weapons matched the bullets used on the two victims who were shot. But it did again, kind of throw a monkey wrench and things for a second. And also the murders continued after he was arrested, right? So he couldn't have been the guy. But again, uh, this gave David Carpenter. I'm sure let him, uh, breathe a sigh of relief for at least a little while. Uh, speaking of continuing murders, November 28th, 1980, David murdered two more women, 25 year old Shana May, 22 year old Diana Connell in the point raised national C shore park. Diana and Shana May, 22-year-old Diana Connell in the Point Reyes National Seashor Park. Diana and Shana didn't know each other. They both happened to go out for a hike that day on the same trail with some friends. Shana May was from San Francisco. Diana Connell was a student visiting the Bay Area. She had recently graduated from Cornell.

And Shana and Diana were hiking and opposite ends of the trail that crosses Mount Wittenburg in Point Reyes. Shana had to hike in a bit to meet up with her friends. Diana was part of a group of three hikers. She was second coming down the trail. One of Diane's friends later told investigators that she was walking down the Sky Trail, as it was called, or is called, about a hundred yards ahead of Diane

when she was startled. Suddenly saw a man standing in the bushes just off the trail. His back was turned towards her. He was white with dark hair of average building height. One of Diane's relatives said the witness reported that she thought she surprised the man she figured he had stepped out the trail to take a piss, which worried that he was going to expose himself so she started walking faster. The third member of

their group caught up with her and then soon both of them wondered where the hell Diane was. The witness told the police that she never saw Shana May, which means it is likely that the killer already had Shana off the trail, then took Diane when she passed by minutes later. So maybe some new fantasy where we wanted two women at the same time. Didn't even get two women who knew each other or out together. Reminds me of Bundy, Ted Bundy at the sorority house in Florida, right at the end of his killing spree when he just went fucking dessert. Carpenters becoming more reckless. It is his lust escalates. Excuse me, between at the sorority house in Florida, right at the end of his killing spree when he just went fucking berserk. Carpenters becoming more reckless. It is his lust escalates.

Excuse me, between 310 and 320 PM, hikers in the park reported hearing gunshots. Sean is friends, contacted park officials when she failed to meet up with them that day. A search was quickly launched in the park for the young women, Rangers, volunteers, the police searched the park that day and a searchers soon saw a shoe sticking out of some ferns. The shoe led them to the location of two dead bodies, but not the ones they were looking for. They found Richard, Sowers and Cynthia, moreland lying faced out in the underbrush. Rick and Cindy both been shot in the head shell casings at the scene match the and

Alderson crime scene meaning the gun was a 38 caliber pistol. Later that day, Diane and Shawna are found side by side, face down about 200 yards away from Cynthia and Rick's bodies. Both women found naked. Four bodies one day. Diane had a pair of underwear stuffed into her mouth and nose area. Another pair of bloody underwear was on her arm. Diane had been raped and strangled with a narrow piece of wire or cord while she was still alive. She and Shana both shot in the head. Shana was shot three times.

Diane once, Shana had ligature marks on her wrists where she had also been raped or scarred. Excuse me. And she had also been raped. The police assumed that the killer interrupted one of the women while hiking with the intention to rape her. Then the other woman came across them, had to be killed. So she wouldn't him or, you know, he just wanted to shake shit up. Had some new impulsive fantasy he wanted to act out. Maybe he had a really tough week selling fucking keychains needed to be extra focused, according to Dr. Dipschit. Uh, Cindy was officially identified after her father brought her dental charts to the

Marin County Sheriff's Office. Her dad Roland frustrated because he, uh, he reported that his daughter was missing. Um, and that report had somehow never made it to the point where as national C short rangers, even though Cindy's car was found in the parking lot, just 150 yards from park headquarters. He believed the car had been there for seven weeks. Yeah, seven weeks. He followed a report with the Kotate and Pacifica police. Then the Marin County Sheriff's office, he didn file a report specifically with the park rangers because he believed his other report reports would be circulated. Sheriff's captain Bob Gideini said that the point raised nationalcy shore offices were

not part of the teletype system that the sheriff's office received 40 missing persons reports every day. That is a lot, man, 40 missing persons reports a day. Also how much did it suck for law enforcement agencies back then when it came to getting needed information from other agencies? Right you're being bombarded with bad tips Probably false missing persons reports for people who just you know Oftentimes just you know we're gonna show up home a couple days later. Just didn't want to be found etc Oh man tricky to track people back then

Rick's hours had been declared a deserter two weeks earlier after 30 days of being a wall. The military had no idea where you might have gone. Please now wondered if there were either two killers in the same area or if the same person went looking for victims and two locations. Ballistics confirmed that the person who killed and also killed Shana and Diane. Hikers now warned not to hike alone in any of the areas parks. Many people who love the outdoors, too scared to go hiking for months, local law enforcement, you know, now they begin running those mounted patrols, long the trails to deter future killings.

Marin County Sheriff, G Albert Howenstein, Jr. had a composite made based on witness statements, but it was difficult to pin down what the man actually looked like due to those statements being conflicting. December 28, 1980, 17 year old Anna Kelly, menge of our goes missing. And now David Carpenter gets put back on law enforcement radar. He quickly becomes a suspect and her disappearance and death, if not as a suspect for the trail side killings right away. He was a customer of the continentalinental Savings and Lone, Banking Glen Park, where Anna worked part time.

He was seen talking with Anna and he was fucking creepy. Based on his fixation, this 50 year old dude had for a 17 year old, one of the customers warned management about him. And they warned men in just a few days before Anna disappeared, just thought the day he was too into her. Anna went missing between 6 a.m. and 9 a.m.

December 28th while her mom and 14 year old brother were asleep. The police believed she went out jogging because she left her purse, ID, and money at home. She was wearing sweater, jeans, and tennis shoes. Anna's mother, Juanita, said that Anna had recently been talking to her about David. She said she felt sorry for him because of a stutter.

The daily city police then learned that David promised Anna a gift for her mom. One of the said that David had recently taken Anna to the gyms of the Golden West, uh, incorporated warehouse where he still worked, gave her a box of key chains and ceramic dolls, which she was going to give out to some people as Christmas gifts. However, without a body, police have no idea if Anna's disappearance is connected to the trailside killer victims. They don't know, obviously, if she's even dead, they already had dozens of trailside killer suspects, loose suspects, but still so David now on their radar, but barely one of many creepy dudes in the same area who may have done some horrible

shit. And that is another thing that makes it got to make it tough for law enforcement with these situations. There are just so many creeps out there just inside the city limits right now in San Francisco. There are 827 registered sex offenders living there not counting any of the transients who might also be sex offenders. There's another 908 right across the Bayon Oakland another 116 in Marin County 663 in nearby San Mateo County, on non. You know, there's well over 100,000 in the state. And again, in this case, the sex offender registry is that the police are looking at don't even list, David. January 21, 1981 now in the middle of all this killing, David suddenly finds him self-time to get a girlfriend.

Why not? And gets her to move in with him. A woman named Candace Don Townsend or Townsend. Age not listed in sources moves in with Carpenter and his parents the day they meet. He met her that morning. Earlier that month, David's boss, Jack Newman, started sending him down to Fisherman's Wharf to sell keychains to tourists there. And I guess he was doing a good job. He was happy about his progress, met up with his parole officer to tell him about it early on January 21st On his way to see his parole officer David met Candace at the intersection of Golden Gate and Van Ness Avenue in San Francisco

Candace was passing through San Francisco on her way to stay with the friend in Gernville David later recalled and how fucking creepy is this recollection This is a quote What drew me to her was she had two black eyes. I don't think I've ever seen a woman with two, one maybe. What the fuck? That's what attracts you to somebody? I like this lady.

There's something about her. Something about her eyes. Oh, I know what it is. I like how I won't be the first person who I've really heard her. Somebody's already trained her right so fucking dark It's guys so fucked up some creep known as bud had given Candice the black eyes down in Los Angeles Her car had broken down off the freeway David now offers to have her car towed right she's in desperate circumstances

He tells her he has business to attend to he'll be back in an hour After meeting up with this pro officer. He goes back meets up with candy Candy tells him that she doesn't have money to have her car repaired. According to David, she made it very obvious. She would do anything to get up to Gernville. So they meet a third time that evening. After David gets off work, he promises to have her car towed to a garage fixed after they have dinner. Before they had dinner, they fucked in the back seat of his Chevy. Candy would later say he stopped the car in an isolated spot near Sosolito. It was actually very near to Mount Tammelpias. It was dark, hilly, lots of trees. No one else was around. It was frightening. I felt very uneasy about the whole thing. He asked

me to marry him after talking about prostitution and having sex with him and offering me money. We had sex in the back seat. He showed me a turn off where people hiked up the mountain. I remember he mentioned the death of a woman on Mount Temple Pious as we drove by the state park. This is also absurd. Hey, how much have sex with you right now? Oh, you're not working? This is a real date. Cool. Do you want to get married? I like women who I don't have to sneak out of the bushes and threaten with the gun Dev sex with me. I like women. I don't have to hit with a hammer Candy told him that she had worked as a cocktail waitress and a truck driver that she wanted to get a waitress in job in San Francisco Only reason she was traveling to Guerrero was because she didn't have anywhere else to stay So while the a dinner David again tells Candy that he would like to he would like them to get married

He said I have very strong romantic feelings towards you. I want to marry you. He's known her a couple hours. Candy said, I'm not so sure about the marriage, but she agrees to move in with David as parents house that night. So again, you know, desperate situation. February of 19, one now, David begins working for a company called Econo Quickprint. Why the sudden switch after he was supposedly killing it, pun, not intended actually, selling keychains down on Fisherman's Wharf. Sources do not say, but I imagine something happened. Maybe the family friends who hired him got one too many complaints about him creeping

the fuck out of all the women he's around or something? March 29th, 1981, 20-year-old Ellen Hansen and her boyfriend, 21 year old Steve Hartle, both attacked and the Henry Cowell Redwood State Park near Santa Cruz. Ellen and Steve, both UC Davis students, enjoying being young and love it on spring break. They went to the park, March 27th for a weekend camping trip, and on Sunday the 29th, they went for a hike on the Ridge Trail. They went to an observation deck, then hike the Ridge Trail towards the Cathedral Redwoods, a mile from the observation deck they encountered a man walking in the opposite

direction. They didn't speak to each other and Steve and Ellen continued walking to the Cathedral Redwoods, stayed there for a few minutes, looking around, then retraced their steps to get back to their campsite. While they are on the trail, they see the man again, and he says, Oh, we've met again. And then pulls out a revolver. He points to gun at them and tells them, do what I say. Steve puts his hands up with the man later identified. Of course, it's David Carpenter orders him to put his hands down and says, do what I say you won't get hurt. Carpenter gestures at Steve tells him to go down the trail. He steps back, but then Ellen says, don't listen to him, Steve.

Don't listen to what he says. Steve pleads with Carpenter to please let them go. Carpenter only responds with, now listen to me and do what I say. He approaches, looks at Ellen and just fucking says straight up, I want to rape you. Pretty fucking terrifying choice of words, right? Didn't even open with, I would like to fuck you. Wait for her to say, well, that's not going to happen. And then say, well, I guess I'm going to rape you. Pretty fucking terrifying choice of words, right? Didn't even open with, I would like to fuck you. Wait for her to say, well, that's not gonna happen. And then say, well, I guess I'm gonna rape you.

Now, it just opens with rape. Ellen responds, no, I'm not going to let you. And then she moves to standing between Steve and David further. She does it with the fucking gun pointed at her, brave meat sack. Steve says to Ellen, Ellen, stay away from him. He has a gun and Ellen responds, Steve, he's going says to Ellen, Ellen, stay away from him. He has a gun and Ellen responds, Steve, he's going to shoot us anyway. Don't listen to him.

Fucking tough ass person. Carpenter orders both of them to move towards the bushes off the side of the trail, gesturing with his gun. Steve begs David to leave them alone, according to a court document, when they now move towards the edge of the trail, or I guess at least Steve does,

Steve starts to lose his footing, and then he hears gunshots. Ellen is shot first. he is quickly shot next. Steve said it felt like somebody hit his neck with a sledgehammer. The next thing he remembers is waking up on the ground. When he looks around, he sees Ellen. This is so sad. She is lying face down on the ground with her head in a pool of blood. Steve picks up her head to see if she's alive, she's dead, he then sees Carpenter across the trail turned away from him. He'd only passed out for maybe a minute or so. Steve gets up, runs to the observation deck, you know, holding his neck as fast as he can

while Carpenter flees the area. Dude was a lot of things, but I guess not a necrophiliac, right, once he's woman or dead, he has no interest. Father and son, Leeland and Kenneth Fritz happened to be in the park when these murders occur. Around 5 p.m. they saw Carpenter on the observation deck and spoke with him. They saw that he occasionally looked towards the Ridge Trail with binoculars and he left the observation deck using the Ridge Trail. Camper's Fred and Maureen Morse also saw David around the time of the murders. Saw him drink from a water fountain near the observation deck. Mirror minutes later, everyone here at gunshots coming from the trail. The fritzes started walking towards the gunshots.

They see Steve bloodied, staggering, coming towards them. Steve tells him what happens or what had just happened. The fritzes help Steve get to the deck, leave him with the morses before they go to get help. Maureen is a nursing assistant and administers first aid. Fred Morse goes to look Ellen and counters David on the way. David said, someone shot along the trail and then the dude just kept walking. Steve now sees David, points at him and yells to Marine, lady, that's the man that shot me. Get out of here. Good on Steve, man, brave dude. Think of it as Marine as he sits bleeding from a fucking bullet wound to his neck.

David just casually continues walking away. Marine would later testify that David was walking through the clearing like he didn't see us, or here, Harto yelling. When he was out of view, she went down to the path towards Fred. They were able to get Steve taken to a hospital. Leeland Fritz, a young girl who was in the park, reported seeing David speeding away shortly after all this in a red fiat. It was determined that Ellen died of two gunshot wounds to the head, one gunshot wound to the right shoulder fired at close range. Steve was shot in the back of the neck. The bullet hit one of his arteries, missed his heart by two inches. And he would be in the hospital for eight days.

Steve described the killer from his hospital bed as having crooked yellow teeth said he was about 50 years old and balding or dark glasses. Had a backpack was wearing a gold jacket with lettering on the back and a baseball cap. He was 510 to 6 foot by 170 pounds. According to the post-standard, seven witnesses reported this man to the police. The physical description differed slightly from one to the next and from the description of the Marin County killer, but the M.O. was the same. Investigators obtained shoe print impressions of the scene to compare to the

suspect shoes if they were able to find them. The composite drawing was published in the newspapers was pretty accurate, right? Thanks to a bunch of eyewitnesses. After speaking with investigators in Marin County, Santa Cruz County Sheriff Al Noren says he is confident that the man that the same man committed five of the murders in Marin County. Local investigators now speculate that there is a sexual motive to the murders. Marin County Sheriff Al Hounstein says he thinks the killer kills for psychological relief. Again sad that it doesn't sound like they really still utilized FBI specialization, John Douglas's profile.

The Santa Cruz Sheriff's Department now organizes a six person task force after the Hanson murder. Eventually, Marin County and the FBI joined this task force. April of 1980, Candy and David's relationship is already beginning to deteriorate. I'm surprised it lasted more than just a few days. David bought her an engagement ring, but Candy not interested. In April, she tells him he's that she is moving out. David was quote, very upset about this. Candy

started spending weekends away from the home. David would say that the final straw occurred when Candy called him at 3 30 in the morning. She was drunk and wanted him to come down and help her find her car. David picked her up, but didn't let her drive. Later that month, he gave her notice to vacate the house by May 3rd, Candy moved out on April 30th. Fucking crazy, that David struggled to maintain a romantic relationship with somebody. But also Candy sounds like a hot mess.

Not as much of a mess as David, but a mess. One of them maybe drinks too much, that there are kills too much. April 4th, 1981, a woman named Roberta Patterson calls the tip line, describes an encounter with a man who resembled a composite sketch he had seen of the trail side killer in the paper. Roberta, Roberta had a hell of a memory. Some 26 years earlier, right, during that five-year stretch, we don't know much about David Carpenter. She had been out on a cruise ship confronted a young man in his 20s named David Carpenter who was working as a person and

Creeping the shit out of her and her very young teen daughter She recalled that he had a stutter and she had proof of his name because he had signed her daughter's book Roberta in addition to making a report with authorities talk to the San Francisco Examiner on May 19th and spoke about her interaction with Carpenter all those years earlier Said she had left San Francisco on February 14th, 1955 to go on a cruise to Japan to meet her husband. She had her 14 year old daughter Shelby Lynn and her 11 year old son Rocky with her, a storm for some all to stay in close quarters and David took particular interest in Shelby. Giver Candy, played games with her, showed her a lot more interest than he showed rocky.

When David put his arm around Shelby, Roberta said she felt queasy and complained to the captain. She told him, I just don't like to have him around my daughter so much. She said the captain responded, well, he's just a young man. He's trying to entertain the kids. The captain was technically correct. I mean, he's trying to fuck the kids at least one of them. And I guess you could interpret that

if you're deranged as entertainment for David at least. David signed Shelby's autograph book. She had a little book she was getting random people signatures with, said, to you from me, David J. Carpenter, Percer SS Fleetwood, 3155. So I doubt it was the only time he did something that creepy during that five years stretch.

We didn't know where we don't know much about him. Cutting back to 1981, weeks after her initial tip, Roberta calls again to ask if her tip isn't being investigated and is told it takes a long time. And good on Roberta for following up. May 2nd, 19, 21, at 20 year old Heather Skags goes missing. The same day she was supposed to meet up with a guy named David Carpenter, just like the tip, weird. Heather was a student working at Econo Quick Print where David is still working as a printer.

He goes after a coworker this time. Carpenter was teaching people how to use computer types that he machines. Heather lived in San Jose with her boyfriend and David sometimes would give her a ride home in a company car. I know that a guy doing that could be totally innocent, but also if some 50 year old dude is given my 20 year old daughter, ride home from work, I'm swinging by the office and I'm gonna introduce myself.

I'm gonna do my best to make sure that that guy is at least a little bit fucking scared of me because I think there's a good chance that motherfucker's a creep. Heather mentioned that she wanted her own car. So David told her that he had a friend selling a car and David even offered to loan her what she needed to buy it. Right?

Not weird at all. No strings will be attached to that loan. No way. Before Heather left, she gave her boyfriend Dan Pingal, David's number, address, and time she expected to return. Her mother Mary Jones Gags later testified the David Carpenter offered a drive, Helen to Santa Cruz to help her get a job at a print shop and help her buy a used car. He asked her to bring cash

and he told her not to tell anyone about the meeting. So this is unfortunate that she knew her daughter was going on the ride with the dude who asked her not to tell anyone. Mary testified that she pleaded with Heather over the phone. Please don't go with Carpenter. Heather cried, said it didn't feel right, but she didn't feel right, but she didn't want to pass up a job opportunity. She told Mary, don't worry, don't worry about a mom.

Well, Mary was, Mary was worried, poor Mary, and her defense, you know, she wants to stop her daughter, but her daughter's a grown woman who can do what she wants in these situations. Heather was last seen alive by someone who talked to authorities and was not named David Carpenter on May 2nd, 1991, waiting for her ride with David outside a convenience store parking lot. Dan Pingle went looking for her hours later confronted Carpenter who said he hadn't seen him that

day. He overslept. Pingle doesn't buy it. He calls the San Jose police reports that David told Heather not to tell anybody that she was going on a ride with him and to bring 400 bucks for a vehicle. He knew he had something to do with Heather's disappearance and so did her mom. This was now the second time, you know, the David Carpenter's name has been brought up in the investigation in a short like frame of time. So the police decided to talk to him. Six days later, May 8th, David makes the same statement to the police he made to Dan. He overslept, right?

Didn't meet up with Heather that day. One of the officers who speaks with him notices that Carpenter sure does look a lot like the composite sketch from Steve Hartle's description. And it seemed like he had tried to change his appearance by ditching the glasses and growing out of beard. David immediately jumps to becoming the prime suspect in the trailside killer murders now.

And the police contact Carpenter's parole officer, Richard Wood. Fuck yeah bro, Dick Wood on the scene. Dick Wood, the parole officer. How many times did dudes fresh out of prison, meeting up with Dick Wood, have to focus so hard on not offending him by laughing at his name.

After being presented with information on Heather's gag as appearance, Dick Wood has a feeling that Carpenter is in fact the trailside killer. Police now leaning further and to learn more about David, discover he did not show up on the California inmate records due to a technicality of being a federal inmate and they learned that he was a sex offender, a violent one, a man who had tried to beat a woman to death with a hammer when she refused to let him fuck her, a woman he knew, just like a new

Heather, a man who had, just like a new Heather. A man who had committed a lot of sex crimes and already spent a lot of years in prison. The FBI local authorities set up a surveillance van now outside Carpenter's house on Sussex Street, 36 Sussex Street, if he happened to live there, and are now very creeped out. And they start following him to places he frequented. Investigators learned about his girlfriend, talked to Candy Townsend, May 14th. She told them that David had given her a ring, but the stone fell out of the setting. When asked if she had ever given him anything, she said she didn't give it to him, but he had taken a gold jacket at her. He said, I went missing in late March or early April. Oh man, this is this is big.

She wanted it back, but then David told her it was stolen from his car while he was at the supermarket. And she remembered thinking that was weird because he always locked his car doors. Remember Steve Hartle described the killer as wearing a gold jacket on the day David shot him and shot and killed his girlfriend, Ellen Hanson. Investigators felt like this was the big break in the case they had been waiting for and now they start working on obtaining a search in a rest warrant. They get it.

They decide the arrest will take place the next morning. May 15th, 19th, one David Carpenter, who had just turned 51 years old the week before is arrested outside his home in Diamond Heights, San Francisco, arrested in connection with the murder of Ellen Hanson and the attempted murder of Steve Hartle, also linked to some of the other trail side killer murders and the disappearance of Heather Skacks.

Catherine Ramzland would write about the arrest saying, they approached him carefully speaking in the soft tones. So as not to alarm him or inspire him to reach for whatever was in the bag, he seemed confused at first, but soon insisted on getting a lawyer. At this point, the agents told him he was under arrest and he begged, please don't hurt me. Inside David's fiat, a vehicle previously witnessed it, one of his crime scenes, right, to red fiat investigators find a bent tailpipe and a book about local hiking trails. Inside his home, they find more than 60 maps of hiking trails. Ramselin wrote, thus, Carpenter drove a car similar to the one described by the surviving victim, had the same optometrist as another victim. Yeah,

they find that out as well. Had the right distinctive type of clothing had a record for violent sex crimes, also suffered from explosive rages and had recently tried to change his look with a different type of frame for his glasses. In addition, several witnesses that recognized him as the man who lived in the area of an attack. The police put David in a lineup, invite numerous people who had made witness reports regarding the trailside killer to participate. Steve Hartle picks David out of the line up

despite his new beard. Six out of seven other witnesses also picking out and witnesses pick out his fiat in a car lineup. Briefly, there is speculation that David also might have been the Zodiac Killer. But it was quickly determined that he had been in prison when some of the Zodiac Killer murders occurred and when that killer sent letters

to the police and local media. Before moving on, how weird is this? During initial questioning with detectives who were hoping for David to tell them where the body of Heather's gags was, somehow ballet lessons came up. David started bitching a bunch about his mom making him take ballet lessons and then just got up in front of investigators and started going through various ballet positions, like doing a weird dance. Just out of nowhere. Just dude starts dancing for the detectives. And as he danced, he talked and he did not stutter. David's arrangement takes place inside the Santa Cruz County jail. May 18, 19, 19, one, formally charged with murder and attempted murder. All David's in jail, the police continue to search for Anna Kelly, uh, menja bar. No evidence of foul play in her disappearance, but, you

know, because of her connection to David, the police now, of course, assume that something fucking terrible has happened to her. May 24th, 1981, just a few days later, hikers in the Santa Cruz Mountains come across a badly decomposed body in big Basin State Park. The following day, authorities confirmed it's the body of Heather Skacks. She's identified by dental records. She died of a single 38 caliber gunshot wound to the face at close range. Oliver Clothing is gone and one of her earrings is missing, similar to an earlier crime scene. Little serial killer trophies perhaps. Authorities assumed that she had been raped before being killed.

A high concentration of seminal fluid was found in Heather's body The pathologist who did her autopsy believed that sperm was placed in her body within an hour of the gunshot wound The condition of her body was consistent with being shot from above while lying on ground on the ground after intercourse forensic analysis of the semen was inconclusive May 27th David is charged with a murder of Heather Skags, testing of the bullet that killed Heather, linked him to the crime. By May 27th, the Syracuse Harold Journal noted that Marin County DA, Jerry Herman, was going

to file charges against David in five more murders, linked to his gun through ballistics. Herman would not file charges in the barber's shorts or edicane cases due to lack of evidence. Barbara was stabbed with a knife, and there were no usable fingerprints found on her body. Edda was shot with a different type of gun that had still not been found. Authority strongly suspected David in these attacks, but just, you know, didn't have the evidence. Nearly three weeks later, June 14, 1981,

skeletal remains are found near Castle Rock State Park by some hikers. The hikers found a jawbone, took it at their home before calling Santa Clara County Sheriff's deputies who notified Santa Cruz County. Sheriff's deputies and explorers scouts searched the area, found a school, half of a skeleton, and several pieces of clothing. And those remains would be identified as the missing Anna Kelly Menjivar. She had disappeared roughly six months earlier back in December, December 28th, 1980. That's 17 year old who worked at the bank.

This uh, the one that you know, at least one customer worried about David's fixation with her, the one who David had taken to his job, given her free keychains and ceramic dolls. Due to decomposition, Anna's cause of death could not be established and there wasn't much evidence against Carpenter to build a case. But again, he for sure fucking killed her likely after raping her as well. July 31st, 1981, David Carpenter charged with five murders in Marin County, also charged with two council forceful rape, one count of attempted rape with 13 special circumstances. David's first of two big trials for the Santa Cruz charges starts on October 11th, 1983 in the LA Superior Court.

He had been granted a change of venue due to the media exposure in the area where he killed regard in the trailside killer murders. The trial ended up being unique because the judge seated two juries at the same time, one for the guilt phase, one for the penalty phase. District Attorney Art Dana explained, this will mean that the entire guilty phase of the trial will not have to be retried at the penalty phase if the jury finds the defendant guilty. It will literally save thousands of dollars and an enormous amount of time in the presentation of the case. And I'm not sure why that has not happened more often. I don't know, try to figure it out and couldn't.

April 5, 1984, the two juries in panel at the same time. Santa Cruz trial officially gets started May 23, 1984. In his opening statement, District Attorney, Art Danner, described how the murders of Ellen and Heather were committed and noted that investigators discovered that one of David's friends bought a 38 caliber revolver for him in the fall of 1980. Steven Hartle testified on May 24 about surviving his attack.

Steve described his attacker as clean shaven conveniently when David was arrested, right? He had grown out his beard. As discussed earlier, witnesses viewed David in a lineup with other bearded participants. Per court order, David was clean shaven at trial and Stephen positively, positively identified him in the lineup and in court. The young girl who saw the red fiat at the crime scene had identified somebody else in the lineup. Remember that David had a beard at the time, but now correctly identifies David in court.

Kenneth Fritz and the morseys, the people who saw David and helped Steve Hartle, could not identify anyone in the lineup again likely due to David changing up his appearance, but now correctly identified David in court. Additionally, Steve, the morse and the fritzes described the killer as wearing a gold jacket and a blue or green baseball cap. And this gold jacket, oh man, it's become a central theme of the trial

and actually some other clothing. Candy Towns and David's former girlfriend testifies that David owned a green baseball cap, also testified that she once worked at a bar in Billion's Montana. And that's where she got a gold jacket with Ollie written on the front and on the back was Western bar Olympic drinking team Billions Montana. Only 20 of those jackets were ever made.

Candy didn't wear the jacket. David told her he was wearing it and she said she last saw it in early April of 1981 in one of David's cars. And the David told her it was stolen after that. And the jacket never recovered. A San Francisco police officer who gave David a traffic citation on March 7, 1981 testified he was wearing a yellow windbreaker with a logo for either Cours or Olympia beer on it. Lee Lymphritz testified that the back of the suspects jacket set Olympic or Olympia and

either beer drinking champion or team, he was also sure that the word Montana was underneath it, right? Dude could not have picked a worst jacket to commit murders while wearing like he might as well have worn a jacket with a fucking neon sign sewn into the back that flashed and said, I'm David Carpenter and I rapin kill women. When Lee Lee was shown a picture of a similar jacket, he said it had the exact same fancy lettering as the jacket worn by the killer. Various witnesses testified that the shooter

was wearing tennis shoes. Criminalists took plaster casts and photos of shoe tracks found in the crime scene. The prosecution was able to prove that the same or that the day before shooting Ellen Hanson and Steve Hartle, David had bought a pair of Nike's with an identical pattern

and exact right size for the tracks. And then those shoes weirdly disappeared. Ballistics established that a 38 caliber Rossi revolver was used to shoot Heather, Ellen, and Stephen. Cynthia Morland, Richard Stowers, shot in the head with a 38 caliber Rossi revolver used in the Santa Cruz County crimes. Molly Pernell, David's friend, now testifies that she bought that gun in the fall of 1980. She testified under a grant of immunity

that she purchased the gun at David's request and gave it to him. So little bit incriminating, just a tiny bit. When she was first questioned after David's arrest, she said the gun was stolen. Now she testified that David had told her to say that if anything happened. Two additional witnesses testified that David showed them a similar gun in late 1980 and early 1921. In July of 1901, that gun was found buried under some broken asphalt and evicted lot in San Francisco. Witten the shame Williams led police to the gun. David gave him and his wife Karen the gun.

He said May 13th Williams then used it in the bank robbery and ditched it in San Francisco after David was arrested. After he was arrested a paper bag with an unexpended 38 caliber bullet was found in David's Chevy station wagon and investigators determined that he also owned a red fiat and that the day after the heartle Hansen shooting David drove that fiat to an acquaintance's house in Marin County borrowed her car left the fiat there for four days, even though it ran just fine. It was almost like he didn't want to be linked to that car for the what? Some DNA evidence, even though DNA evidence being used, you know, still very new thing, not nearly as impactful as it is now, also as presented trial.

And Alderson was found in clothes, but sperm was found in her vagina. A semen stain found on her underwear was of a type consistent with six to eight percent of the population, which included David Carpenter. I mean, had they had better DNA testing available back then, it would have certainly been an exact match. The defense's case only took one day to present because they had a fucking shitty case. So much evidence against David.

Defensive attorney Larry Bigam admitted that, yeah, David killed Helen and Heather, but I fucking love this so much evidence against David. Defensive attorney Larry Bigam admitted that, yeah, David killed Helen and Heather, but I fucking love this so much. He argued that David should not be convicted of first-degree murder because he was, quote, a mental mess. That phrase is the best. So much better than arguing that he's insane.

Your honor. Did my client kill some of these people? Yeah, of course he did. He's a mess. He's a mental mess. Look at him. Look how confused he looks. He barely knows him talking about him right now.

Look at his dumb, lopsided monster face. Dude, it's a fucking mess. If you could see inside his head right now, there's no way you would see a human brain. You'd probably see, I don't know, a couple squirrels fighting over a nut, maybe a little tiny clown, digging around with a yo-yo,

or like maybe there's a little garbage can in there with a bunch of crumpled up pieces of paper inside. And when you uncrumple the papers, there would just be weird or creepy-ass statements written on them, like, gold jackets are good for raping. Or mommy loves the ballet boy. Or key chains get you plus. Larry also admit that David shot Stephen Hartle and also that he tried to rape Ellen.

The defense sought to cast doubt on whether or not David lay in wait for Ellen and raped Heather's gag zone, both of which would be special circumstances that would qualify him for the death penalty. The defense also had forensic surrologist Brian Raxel testified that semen found in Heather's body. It might have come from a boyfriend. Before resting, the defense also tossed out the so-called shrubslet theory. What if defense attorney Larry Bigam pondered, what if David, yeah, he killed some women on the woods, but in self-defense, what if sexually insatiable women were hiding out in the woods waiting for innocent hikers like David to walk by and they would pounce on those guys and demand sexual satisfaction

what if david did carry a gun to protect himself from dangerous shrubs luts and of course that's nonsense that's a call back to episode two of seven the vampire of sacramental sir o'cola rich or chase if you like what the fuck is happening right now uh... july six nineteen eighty four david carpenter convicted of two counts of first-degree murder, attempted murder and I sorry, just really threw my notes around attempted murder, rape and attempted rape. The jury found him guilty of three special circumstances that did qualify him for the death penalty as well.

Multiple murders, murder during a rape and murder while lying in wait. The penalty phase of the trial was set to begin in August. The DA Art Dana told the jury. We've thought all along that if there's any case appropriate for the death penalty, this is it. Old Larry Bigam said he would try to save David from the death penalty by explaining his background, telling the court in no way can I excuse his crimes, but we will certainly try to explain them. August 15th, Larry Bigam tells the jury that David was damned at a young age due to his childhood.

He was beaten by his parents ridiculed by his classmates and didn't receive love, affection, or praise. But again, did he really suffer through a terrible childhood at home with his parents? Or was he just a fucking freak? A friend's and teachers testified about David's childhood, his adult children testified about their contact with him and their love for him. Prison employees spoke about David's good behavior. An expert witness testified about the effects of child abuse and a second expert, Dr. Dipsch

I assume, testified about stuttering and its effects on David. Psychologist Dr. William Pierce also testified that the David suffers from a severe and long standing emotional disturbance, amounting to a personality disorder stemming from emotional neglect and abuse in his childhood, which contributed to his criminal behavior. Dr. Craig Haney, a psychologist, testified that penal and public institutions failed to provide the necessary treatment for David, which contributed to his criminal behavior. Blame the system. How fucking weak in this case? By this dude was saying he was fucking taking little girls as fucking pants off by the age of eight, that by the age of 18, he'd what, raped somewhere close to 50 fucking women. Now, he just fucking loved

to rape. I don't know why, but it wasn't the system's fault. During the penalty phase, the prosecution, the, or excuse me, during the penalty phase, the prosecution presented evidence of David's other crimes and convictions, including the January and February 1970 crime spree. September 18th, 1984, NYU professor of psychiatry, Thomas Sass testified for the prosecution. Sass was called as a rebuttal witness to the defense's argument that David's actions were influenced by a person, personality disorder stemming from his childhood. And Sass said, and I like this, it is meaningless to contend that a personality disorder stemming from his childhood. And Sass said, and I like this, it is meaningless to contend that a personality disorder can cause criminal conduct. Sass testified that some

of Carpenter's alleged statements helped him form the opinion that David exercised free choice. For example, the girlfriend of an inmate who befriended David in prison said that David told her and may have 191 to get away with murder is the ultimate challenge. He also allegedly told her there's nothing like the power of a gun to get you what you want. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was doing. And that respect, his mind was not a mess at all. It was very clear. He wanted to rape, and he wanted to get away with rape, and that's why he did what he did. October 5th, 194 jurors vote for the death penalty after seven days of deliberation. November 16th, David is officially sentenced to death by the judge.

January 31st, the following year, 1985, David's new public defender, Frank Cox, argues that he should not have to stand trial now for the Marin County charges because the judge had already convicted him of five murders in the Santa Cruz trial. At the end of the Santa Cruz trial, the judge noted that there was overwhelming proof that David committed the Marin murders. And he imposed not one but two death sentences upon him. Testimony about the Marin murders was also used to show the aggravated circumstances to justify the death penalties. Frank Cox now argued that another trial would amount to double jeopardy. Well, August 19th, 1985, channel two local news,

errors and exclusive interview between David and anchor Elaine Coral now. First time as he's speaking publicly, the interview taped on July 19th, aired in three parts. And part one, David said, I've said from the very start that I am not the trailside killer. By the way, he still maintains innocence. He said, I've said before that they knew before my arrest that I had not killed Heather Skags. They knew for sure. They knew positively once they got the bullet from Heather Skags head that I was not the trailside killer.

By this time, they said I'd killed everybody that had been killed in the last five or 10 years in Northern California and now they're forced to cover up. He's the fucking victim. Part two, David talked about his childhood saying, I used to go to school with black and blue marks day after day after day. If you were talking about a year's time,

I wouldn't be talking about how many times I got beaten. I'd be talking about how many times I didn't get beaten. If you're talking about 365 days, I'd be beaten 350 to 355 days a year. I could beat him every day. Get the fuck out of here. This claim does not match up with his best friend from Childhoods claim at all.

Or with the claims of other friends and teachers, you know, when he was in school, testimony of siblings, the fuck out of here. Despite the pleas of public defender Frank Cox, on September 13th, 1986, David granted another change of venue, and his second trial is moved to San Diego, so he is gonna go in trial again.

And it did not slip past me that we have a dick wood and a Frank Cox in this episode. And the Frank sometimes you describe a hot dog or a penis. So you can make an argument that it's the most penis-like name heavy episode. We have two guys who have first and last names related to Dix. Thank you, Nimrod and thank you, Lucifina. I'm sure you both had a hand in that. David's Marin County trial starts with opening statements January

5, 1988. Prosecutors argued that David stocked five hikers in Marin County and murdered them. This time, instead of admitting David was a killer, the defense argued that David, he was not at the crime scenes. Prosecutor presented mostly the same evidence as the first trial. Prosecutors presented evidence of the murder of Ellen Hanson and the attempted murder of Stephen Hardell, which were the subject of the previous trial. Prosecutor Link David to these crimes by showing that the same person committed the Santa Cruz and Marin County crimes. Steve Hardell testifies a second time January 6, 1988. Right how crazy he had to look at this fucker that killed his girlfriend and almost killed him again, two trials. Poor bastard, March 15, 1988 criminalist Charles

Morton testifies for the defense that castings of shoe prints from the Hanson and a heartle crime scene don't match tracks from the type of shoes prosecutors claim David was wearing at the time. The Nike shoe purchased by the police for comparison could not have left the shoe prints found at the heartle hands and crime scene because the shoe prints had 28 ridges in one region, but the comparisons you had 29 ridges. The prosecution presented rebuttal evidence then that showed that the number of ridges on Nike shoes vary slightly, even on shoes the same size. Although the shoes of the police bought for comparison could not have made the shoe prints on the crime scene another pair of those shoes in that same size definitely could have

So the defense they're just grassman straws with the shit During the second trial David's defense questioned the ability of one witness to observe the shooter in his car They impeach the testimony of another witness who connected into the murder weapon Several witnesses also challenged the testimony of Molly pernell the woman who bought the 38 caliber gun for David. Defense argued that the 38 caliber bullet found in the paper bag did not come from Carpenter's car. Defense also presented an expert witness who claimed that the Sirological analysis of the semen stain on Anne Alderson's underwear was quote unreliable. The defense also presented evidence suggesting that a killer or that the killer wore a different jacket than the one described.

March 22nd, 1978, witness Catherine Mallor told the jury that she encountered a man while she was jogging to the park in Santa Cruz County, March 29th, 1981, and he was not David Carpenter. And he was wearing a yellow windbreaker similar to the jacket worn by the person who killed Ellen Hanson. Kim Hatch actually just randomly that fucking two people had those billions Montana bar jackets. What if David didn't kill in another dude wearing that same fucking weird

jackets so many miles away was also coming who kind of looked like him. But her description of the man that she saw a different from Hartle and others who identified David. Mueller didn't report what she saw until 15 months later because she didn't want to get involved. She said until she heard Ellen's mother speaking in a handgun control rally. Another witness testified. She saw the man the morning before the shooting.

He did not look like Carpenter. Third witness testified. She saw a man wearing a jacket similar to the description of the gun man shortly before 5 p.m. March 19th, 1981. And he didn't look like Carpenter. He was seen near the shooting. Two more witnesses testified that they saw the man near the crime scene the day before

the shooting and their description was somewhat inconsistent with Carpenter. One witness said the man was unshaven with a day or two of beard growth and court one of the witnesses said Carpenter looks similar to that guy. Another witness positively identified Carpenter as a man of the trail on the trail. April 5th, 1998, David Carpenter now gives testimony himself. He will do this for seven days. Oh, fuck, making a big push here. But even if he's found not guilty,

he's already got a double death sentence, hung on him. On the fifth, David is questioned by his attorney, Steven Berlin, about how he dealt with a stutter. David testifies that he only stuttered when talking in a normal voice, saying, if I whisper, I with a stutter. David testifies that he only stuttered when talking in a normal voice, saying, if I whisper, I don't stutter. If I sing, I don't stutter. If I get mad and talk like this, I will not stutter.

So he's putting on a real performance here. David testifies that he was miles away from the various crime scenes, but in his alibis, his witnesses are his parents. And this is gonna be problematic. David's father died four years earlier in 1924 and the time of a second trial his mother was suffering from Alzheimer's and had vision problems. So not the best alibi witnesses one is dead and the other is half blind and can't remember who David is half the time.

David claimed he had receipts and other documents that would prove he was doing what he was doing in cases prolobs or ever asked and he said that on some of the dates of his alleged crimes like on October 11th 1980 when Richard Stowers and Cynthia Morlan were shot and killed in the point raised national C-shore park he took his father shopping excuse me and took his mom to a foot clinic and he produced documents from the clinic. They left around 11 to 11 30 a.m. Did some more shopping. Went to a garden supply store, had an argument over what size of pot to buy arrived home about 4.45 45 p.m. He said that on October 13th, 1980 when murder victim Ann Alderson was last seen alive for Alderson. Before her body turned up in the mount, tamelpaya state park.

He worked at gems of the Golden West until 5.36 pm, then went home. One of David's employers also testified he was working with her at Gems of the Golden West, October 13th, until after 4.30 pm, possibly up to 5.30 or 6.00 pm. November 28th, 1980, when Sean and May and Diana O'Connell were gunned down in the Point Reyes National Seashoor Park, David claimed he was at his parents' house fixing a broken toilet.

Said he spent most of the day on March 29th, 1901, when Ellen Hanson and Steve Hardle were attacked and Ellen was killed. With four men whose real names he couldn't remember, and he said they discussed his idea for a business for adult keychains. And before moving forward, we got to dig into this claim for a second.

Adult keychains. Why would you have to qualify a keychain as being adult? I have to assume that an adult keychain would have something sexual about it, right? Like a picture of a naked lady or a sex toy. It sounds like something that would be sold in these suck versus favorite sex toy shop, Captain Whisker Horn's Pony Plain Porium. Howdy partners and ponies. This here's your good buddy, Tom Anderson,

AKA Captain Whisker Horn. Your trusted source of sexy bits, brides, harnesses, halters, hooves, masks, anal plug tails, and more for the Quot State area for the past 20 years. As you know, we do not just specialize in pony play gear. All kings are welcome and provide a four here. And we're not just specialize in pony-play gear. All kings are welcome and provided for here. And we're not above slinging some novelty items.

Coming this week, reference is commercial on time so I can get 30% off any of our new carpenters adult keychains. We got keychains featured incredibly explicit sexual photos of some of your favorite adult film stars in very graphic positions. See your day-ties, light up. When you turn over the ignition with a keychain, feature an elaminated photo of an oiled up bell of danger being aggressively angely penetrated. Or maybe you'd like your keychain to double as a vibrating dildo. Get your lady or prostate motor revved up before or after

revving up your hot rod engine. Or just unclick the detachable keychain vibrating dildo to rev up both engines simultaneously. We got keychain butt plugs, keychain lube dispensers,chain nummin' cream dispensers, Keychain desensitism price, We got Keychain cock rings, never lose your keys again! When you're not driving, the hell would put them in your pocket, hook them around your dangling leg! We got Keychain vibrating eggs, never lose your keys again! When you're not driving, stick them up your hoo-ha!

There's only room for one sexual fetish super store in the Quatsuit area and that store is Captain Whiskarhorns, pony play and porium, tax shop and saturday. And now we have Carpenter's adult keychains. Hiya, Sasparilla! Oh, hey! All right, but seriously, what else would those things be? I mean, bank records also showed that David's father's credit card was used to make a purchase at one time

Or at excuse me at one of the shopping locations October 11th, 1980 and the proprietor not captain Whitcherhorn Estimated that the purchase occurred around 130 to 230 p.m David admitting to wearing the Montana jacket, but denied telling his girlfriend it was stolen He believed his girlfriend got lost or lost it one night when she got drunk. He also admitted to buying a pair of Nike's day before the shooting. He denied ever having the 38 caliber Rossi revolver that Molly Pernell said she purchased for him. April 22, 1988, document examiner Sandra Homewood fucking destroys everything he just

done. His alibis are fucking nonsense. She testifies that the documents used to support his alibis had been definitely altered. Whoops, kind of fucks up the best part of his defense. She just by the someone intentionally altered the dates on documents used to show that David was at the foot clinic, right, in October 1980.

There was, yeah, just numbers fucking moved around, zero becomes a one, and you know, he did that with other documents as well. So feeling desperate before resting, the defense now tries to shift blame to my dad. Where was my dad, Daniel Neil Cummins? Thanks for giving me a different middle name, so I'm not a junior. Between August 19, 1979 and May 2, 19, 19, 19, one, well, the jury was told nobody knows for sure, and that's true. No one knows for sure where he was all those days. Maybe Anchorage, Alaska, maybe not.

He was definitely in peak condition physically in his late 20s, very comfortable with the outdoors. Right, he worked as a follower on a logging crew for a couple years, not that many years earlier. His hands real strong from a lot of chainsaw and carpenter work. Plenty strong enough to be grabbing people. He was, and he still is, very handy with firearms. Did David Carpenter suddenly escalate his criminal behavior between 1979 and 1901, or did

my dad show up in the Bay Area with a boner and a taste for blood? I'll stop, which jokes about my dad, but what if David did do all that he was charged with but couldn't help it because he was possessed by the ghost of Elizabethan England's worst serial killer maybe in a different part of the multiverse where my thoughts are real. Perhaps he was another reincarnation of the most demonic, deviant, diabolical soul ever to terrorize the knights of every young woman living in London and strapped for the poor Nathan, Billy shakes. Perhaps Shakespeare never created any truly evil villains for his place because he was one himself. And didn't want to tip his hand that far. The literary world's most horrific serial killer.

All the worlds are stage and all the men and women merely future victims. Okay, I'll really stop now. Now that I've probably already lost the interest of every new list. May 10, 1988, David is convicted again. That piece of shit and total waste of taxpayer money was convicted of all charges. In Marin County, five counts of first-degree murder, two counts of rape, one count of attempted rape. Again, the jury found special circumstances

for multiple murder and rape murder. During another penalty phase, prosecution presents similar evidence as the first trial, also presents evidence of an altercation that occurred on December 23rd, 1980, where David pulled out a gun, threatened to kill someone, something we didn't even mention previously, right? How much other shit that he'd do

that never made it in the source material. Prosecution showed that the same 38 caliber gun was used during the murder of Heather Skacks. Right, so he was seen holding this gun. Defense presented mitigating evidence about David's mental state, just like they did at the last trial, right? His mind's a mess.

He's a, he's a mental mess. He didn't know what he was doing. June 9th, 1988, a psychologist testifies for the defense that David committed the murders during a psychotic state triggered by resistance on the victim's part to his sexual advances. Psychologists added, I don't think he planned a murder. I think he planned a rape. And if you really think about that, that's pretty fucked up testimony, right? It's like, he didn't want a murder.

He only wanted a rape. If those women would have just let him rape them We wouldn't be here today. I mean in a way. It's kind of their fault really David son Michael testified during the penalty phase the second trial saying David has always been real good to me if I needed money or help He's always been real good to try to work things out either himself or through my grandparents in a crisis He's usually been there or been around to get a hold of. That's a pretty, Tepet endorsement there.

Like, you know what kid is really close with her dad when they call them by their first name, instead of, you know, by dad or the equivalent. And I like, usually, it's usually, you know, I guess he said, he's always been pretty good, but in a crisis, he's usually been there or been around to get a hold of.

Okay. David's daughter Gabrielle said that she maintained, quote, a nice relationship with her father. Uh-huh. Dr. Ernest Bryant, a neuropsychologist, stated that David had a mixed personality disorder with borderline narcissistic and anti-social features. Dr. Craig Haney, again, testified that David's early institutionalization in juvenile facilities worsened a pre-existing psychological problems or worsened several institutions failed to adequately treat these problems and David became dependent on institutional structure and procedure for adequate psychological adjustment. Again, it's a systems problem that this guy was born a

fucking psychopath. June 27th, 1988, the jury once again recommends a death penalty. David formally sentenced to death. Again, July 19th, 1988. And now he has three death sentences technically. However, a year later, June 14th, 1989, a San Diego judge voids David's second trial because the jury for woman knew that he had already been sentenced to death for murders in Santa Cruz County. After David was convicted and investigated for the public defender's office, looked into a tip that jury-four woman, Barbara Durham, revealed knowledge of David's earlier crimes, March 26, 1988, when the trial was in progress.

She was at a restaurant with two acquaintances and told them, I'm not supposed to know this, but the defendant has been convicted of doing the same thing in another county and has been sentenced to death. One of the acquaintances told his attorney about this and the attorney informed Davis lawyers. Barbara and her husband denied that she'd ever made that statement back in barb. But also who cares in this case,

right? He's already on death row and will remain on death row. March 6, 1995, the California Supreme Court refused to give David a new trial and The court believed it was impossible to keep secrets in these kind of cases, and the jurors knowledge had not unduly biased the entire jury. So April 28, 1997, the California Supreme Court upholds his third death penalty in that Santa Cruz case. He's still in some kind of triple death penalty situation. How great in a case like that if they had to try and kill him three times, right? Like shock him until his heart stops in the electric chair.

But then get out the paddles and bring him back, nurse him back to full strength, but then just immediately execute him again, right? Maybe give him another last meal, then like a barely lethal injection with his heart stops, inject him with some kind of antidote, bringing back, nursing him back to health.

Another last meal then firing squad or better yet have all that happen real quick. No nursing back to health between executions just all the same day. Shock him bringing back. He want snack. You know, give him a snack or not a snack then, you know, inject him then bring him back with like a fruit roll up or something then firing squad. What a fucking rollercoaster of a day. Sadly because of California's moratorium on executions, he's not going to even be executed one time. February 23, 2010, DNA evidence, links David Carpenter to another

murder that he had been suspected of and not found guilty of. Inspector Joe Tumey of the cold case unit announces that the crime lab technicians recovered unspecified DNA evidence in December of 2009. In January, 2010, they learned it matched the sample from David Carpenter. Crime lab technicians confirmed that a sample obtained from David, February 3, matched DNA from the murder of Mary Francis Bennett. That was a 23 year old who went out for a trail run. Never came back on October 21, 1979. The girl who was stabbed 25 times and buried in the shallow grave in Lincoln Park. The time prosecutors had decided,

you know, had not decided, excuse me, whether or not to file charges against carpenter. Tumey said that Mary Francis is sibling, still lived in Montana. They were relieved, but also surprised to receive the news. Mary's parents had passed away. Joseph Bennett, one of her brothers said they had always assumed the carpenter was responsible and was surprised that the police followed up on the case due to time and expense. And now we'll take it out of this timeline, but don't go anywhere. We will catch up a bit more with David, who is still alive very, very soon. Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely.

Before I give a little brief recap, a quick word from these suck versus premiere, true crime expert, stored detective, sunny holester. Cheesecake Factory stored detective, sunny holster here again, me and sex. It's a shame that law enforcement working these murders in the Bay Area didn't think to send in some A-store detectives to work the park beats, where the trailside killer was doing what he did worst. We stored detectives were a different breed, particularly adept at anticipating crimes before they

occur. Used to work in a very specific beat day after day, looking for unusual details. A handful of store detectives work in the three primary locations where the trail sign killer did its hunting. He's as good as caught a year earlier than he was if not earlier. I would address a luck a tourist, a lone dude in some cargo shorts and a stetson explorer hat. We'd like to take a lot of pictures. I got in out afraid to wander off the trail and get out into the brush. I'd like that could easily strike up a conversation with other lone wolves in the park. We come across like birds of a feather except this

bird is a hawk. And David Carpenter, he is a dove, my friend. Well, maybe a woodpecker, but certainly not a hawk. He's a part-time predator only the man, when he's the man with the gun and you ain't. But I have a gun too. I mean, not right now, because it makes factory management nervous, and they've said if I bring it to work again, I'll be immediately fired, but at home I do. And well, you get it. I would have walked those trails from sun up to sundown. I'd get in over three miles with the steps a day in the mall. These legs are ready for trails. And these fingers. They're not just made for stopping flatware shrinkage. They're made for taking out homicidal maniacs. Not one murder so far in any cheesecake factory beat

I've worked. And I aim to keep it that way. I would have arrested David Carpenter faster than you can say, Chili Crunch Shrimp pasta. Or Sheila's chicken and avocado salad. Until next time, you keep listening to True Time, and I'll keep stopping it. Stay sunny everyone. That was weird that sunny Hollister,

who was definitely the person, took on my most miles per second uh... maybe not a bad idea right the way sonny talks good store detective uh... could stop any crime okay my recap david joseph carpenter what a fucking monster a serial killer in rapist suspected of at least ten murders on hiking trails and state parks near san francisco

convicted of seven murders and attempted murder several counts of rape almost certainly committed more murders than that. And many other crimes, crimes, you know, the guy was committed for when he was the trail side killer, not even the first sexually violent crimes he did commit. He spent long periods in prison, twice, you know, for sexual violence as an adult. And then there was all the juvenile facilities he was balancing in and out of where he committed numerous sex crimes before he was 18. Carpenter's M.O. for his trailside murders was to use a handgun to shoot his victims. Typically, seven victims shot with a 38 caliber handgun. One suspected victim

shot with a 44 caliber handgun. Also committed a killing zone with, you know, strangling knives, thought that the murders committed during his final crimes, free were his first killings that the only started killing because he was obsessed with rape and didn't want to go back to prison for committing more rapes and a dead person can't testify against you David was the type of serial killer that frightens the most people I think right a guy who didn't target a specific population in the sense of you know only going after hitchhikers or sex workers He went after everyone from a woman whose vehicle he ran into in a car accident to a teller he found cute at the bank, to a friend of his and his wives, to women just going out for a run or a hike in the park. And men not safe either. And if you were a guy who happened to be with a woman that he wanted to rape out in the woods, well, he shot you to. In that sense, he was a guy who could

kill anyone who chose to go out for a hike. Only thing scary than that type of killer to me is maybe like the kind of killer like John Allen Muhammad, right, one of the DC snipers, who along with Lee Boyd Malvo, just shot at anyone out and about in the DC area. Or maybe the night stalker, Richard Ramirez, right, a dude breaking into the homes, a stranger's and attacking them with killers like that.

It feels like, you know, even if you're not engaged in any kind of risky behavior, you know, you're not getting into a stranger's car for sex work or hitchhiking out alone somewhere, you are still not safe. They can still get you when you're in your bed at home or you're out on a trail doing something healthy for yourself.

I thank God killers like this are exceedingly rare. I'd say that this episode was a good reminder to always be on guard when you're out on some trail, but really like fuck that. Like relax when you're out on a... If you're always worried about a fucking murderer, that is not a good way to live. I mean, sure, be aware of who's around you, and if someone creeps you out, trust your gut and leave, cry for help, etc. But also, don't let some evolutionary fucking mistake like David Carpenter change the way you enjoy your life. Odds are, you could hike every single day from now

until the day you die in any park in the nation and be just fine. I mean maybe don't hike, you know, naked in the middle of the night alone with I dare you to catch me, fuck me and kill me, sign, you know, on your fucking back or something. But even then probably more likely to be arrested and placed in a psychiatric center for an involuntary 72 hour hold or something that murdered. There are lessons with a lot of these tales and there were some here today, but also sometimes shit just happens. Shit you can't prepare for, you know, shit you shouldn't waste a lot of mental energy worrying about.

Sometimes terrible things just occur. Statistically, most of the time, they don't though. So take comfort, meet sack, and be glad this fucker, and so many others like him have ended up where they belong in prison or in the ground. Time now for our takeaways will learn a little bit more about David Carpenter. Time, suck, tough, right, take away. Number one, David Carpenter, also known as the Trailside Killer. Got his nickname because he targeted hikers along California park trails for two years.

Typically, David targeted women who were hiking alone, but two of his victims were men who were out hiking with female partners. David targeted victims primarily based on opportunity. He attacked quickly, sometimes raping, then shooting his victims in the head before fleeing. It's believed that he killed two women who were strangers to each other because one of them witnessed him committing a murder or rape. There were several witnesses who saw him, but their descriptions were inconsistent, which along with a mistake in prison records potentially delayed his arrest.

Number two, David's history of violence went back to his teenage years. In 1947, he was sentenced to the California Youth Authority for sexually abusing two children. 1950 arrested for rape. 1960 brutally attacked his acquaintance, Lois Rena, likely would have been the first murder victim if not for the intervention of a military police officer. And there were other arrests before, right, months after his release from prison for his assault on Lois and the military policeman who intervened in her attack, David committed a crime spree, involving robbery, rape and assault against women.

Sadly, the trailside killings could have been preventative David had received a harsher sentence Hopefully life for earlier repeat offenses Number three David Carpenter experienced significant abuse or bullying or bullying during his childhood Which influences later actions? But who abused him is very much up for debate Some sources say mom other sources say dad But who abused him is very much up for debate. Some sources say mom, other sources say dad, still other sources say neither parents,

but the David was abused mostly by kids at school and around the neighborhood. And it seems like he may have invited quite a bit of that abuse onto himself with fucking creepy and strange behavior. Number four, November 28, 1984 trailside killer victims found in the same place the same day. Point Reyes National Seashor Park.

Two victims, Sean O'May and Diane O'Connell, killed early that day. The other two, Cynthia Moreland and Rick Stowers, killed back in October and been missing for more than a month. Searchers who were looking for Sean and Diane, who were complete, who were complete strangers to each other, but both, both reported missing by by friends found Rick and Cindy first then made the horrifying discovery of two more bodies. All these victims killed with a 38 caliber gun later linked to David Carpenter. And now number five new info, elderly inmates on death row. David Carpenter is 93 years old as I record this. One of the oldest people on death

row in the entire US, if not the oldest, I couldn't find out for sure who is the oldest current and made out of any state on death row. Definitely the oldest man on California's death row. In 2021, the website, the crime report published an article featuring a snail male interview with David. He had spent 36 years on death row by that point. And he wrote that he wakes up early in the morning to exercise despite arthritis arthritis, then each breakfast, and is able to go outside three days a week. He goes to church once a month, which is one of the few ways he can get out of a cell

besides medical appointments and visits with friends and family. He spends most of his time in his cell, living alone. He writes, I control my lights. I have my 15-inch color television. I can go to sleep when I want to at night, take a nap during the day, and write letters and read when I want to. I have the freedom in a single cell. I would not have a two man cell. Well, that's just fucking great for that piece of shit. 2019, the death penalty information center reported there were 574 death row inmates aged 60 and older. According to the National Institute of Corrections, prison spend twice as much on elderly prisoners as they do on younger prisoners.

Elderly inmates cost 60 to $70,000 annually, mostly due to medical needs. Demographic trends suggest that the over 50 population on death row will increase, and death rows are, quote, increasingly transformed into high-cost homes for senior citizens. I had never thought of that before. Yet another issue with the aging death row population is dealing with prisoners who have dementia or other medical conditions that come with old age. The crime report wrote in their article, and as more states reject or sidestep capital punishment,

the issue of what to do with aging prisoners on death row presents a dilemma with moral, constitutional, and economic dimensions. Some argue that keeping elderly people who are sick or have dementia and cars rated as cruel and unusual punishment. Well, you know, we could always, uh, you know, fucking kill them. There's two cruel to keep them locked up. Uh, David wrote, in a way, being in my cell on death row is like someone in the military being restricted to base. You don't dwell on what you don't have. You focus on what you do have. And in this way, stay as positive as you can be. Well, I hope 93 years old or not

he doesn't stay too positive. He didn't treat victims with any positivity. Dude was a fucking blight upon humanity since he was what, at least 7-8 years old? How fucked that guy is still alive and apparently healthy at 93. The trailside killer, serial killer, David Carpenter has been sucked. Thank you again to the team here. Thank you to producer Olivia Lee for initial research today and to the art warlock. Oh no, is the art, is the suck ranger, Tyler C, recorded in editing this episode. So you can watch it on YouTube in addition to listening.

And also, watch my new special, try to get better on YouTube if you haven't. And thanks to all the love for the special in the private Facebook group, three out of five stars, and on the TimeSuck Discord and other private Facebook groups and other places online. Next week on TimeSuck, we're going to go sci-fi. Well, actually, we're going to go sci-facked, but it might feel like sci-fi. What is the biggest thing you can think of? The biggest animals of blue whale, general Sherman tree, world's tallest tree reaches 275 feet, more than 36 feet wide, Dubai,

mall, world's largest shopping mall, almost 6 million square feet. All of that pales in comparison to our subject next week, though. So we're going to be talking about the entire universe. While the spatial size of the universe is unknown, it is possible to measure the size of the observable universe observable, which is approximately 93 billion light years at the present day. To put that in the comparison, to get to the sun on your star, depending on your preferred method of transport, it would take you 19 years. If you were on a plane traveling at 555 miles per hour or 177 years driving at 60 miles per hour,

or 3,536 years to walk there, 30 miles an hour, the universe is fucking enormous and terrifying. When a galaxy explodes, great way to start this list releases a massive burst of gamma rays, powerful enough to completely annihilate any planetary bodies in its path. Even scarier, 150 to 250 million light years

from our galaxy lies a dreaded space anomaly called the great attractor. With a gravitational pull so powerful, it can pull entire galaxies towards itself and collapse him into one another. Scarier is still as we don't know what that thing is. There's not even enough mass around it to account for that gravitational pull. While the great attractor is at a large distance from us, its intense gravitational pull makes

it very likely we're on an inevitable crash course with it. Might not happen for a few billion years. But still haunting. But there's nothing that's captured the cultural imagination with space, probably like black holes. Objects with gravity so strong, nothing not even light can escape. That's hard to wrap my head around. All of that and more on next week's

Cosmological Commodore spaceship, black hole episode of Time Suck. Right now, we're gonna head on over to this week's Time Sucker Updates. First step, we have Marvelous Meat Sack Jessica. I'll leave her last name out in case her ex hears this. Jessica reminded me how powerful it is just not to feel alone. When she wrote in, I'm not sure if anyone will read this, but I wanted you to send my

story of listening to the show. I don't know how I came across Time Suck, but my mind was blown and there was this guy, as curious as I am, has almost my exact views on just about every topic it brings up and this guy's funny. I was blown away that there were so many of us just like you. I think I've been listening to you for about three years now. I was working in Dallas at a corporate bank and had a wife.

I would save your podcast so I could listen to them while I drove to my hometown to see the family. You've got me through many a long night on the road, my friend. Snap to now, I'm living in my hometown. I am a special education teacher in a neighboring tiny farm and ranch community. Teacher pay has gone up in many places,

but not in the small rural schools. We are so desperately trying to save. So I went from living in Dallas with a shitty wife, excuse me, plenty of money, to my hometown where I am passionate about teaching, but poor as a church mouse. And maybe, I mean, wife is what he wrote, but maybe his typo was shitty life. Could be shitty life, could be shitty wife. Um, could be both. The town is population 150 that I teach at. So my car is broken down. I have school bills from obtaining teachers degrees that I cannot pay. My first degree was a business degree. I can't afford internet, but I can stream time suck on my phone. He'll name, Rod. So Mr. Dan Cummins, you are my

entertainment slash teacher. I don't want to listen to any other podcasts. So I haven't I come home to my rag tag get charming duplex and listen to you. Uh, every night if I don't want to listen to any other podcasts so I haven't. I come home to my rag tag, get charming duplex and listen to you. Every night, if I don't have overwhelming debt from getting a teacher's degree, my life will be pretty damn perfect. My Dallas life can't hold a flame to teaching at a struggling school and listening to you at night and my charming duplex. Thank you. Thank you for always being just a few taps away.

I thank all the crew and Lindsay as well. You have built a cult that truly helps get me through life. Jessica, well, Jessica, I am so honored to be a part of your life and to have the online community around this podcast become part of your life as well. Internally, I definitely struggle with feeling alone or have historically, right? Kind of like, yeah, I guess, I don't know why I'm like him around it, I'm sure like depression. I think I have, you know, have my whole life. I always thought it was just my temperament for a long time, right?

The my brain would just loop through a little stormy place if nothing fucking matters. Life is just a big fucking game, and I'm not sure how much longer I even want to play from time to time, and I thought that was just like the way that everyone internally dealt with life. And now I'm not so sure.

One of the things that would put me in that place, or still does, I guess, would just be feeling misunderstood, feeling like, fuck man, no one understands what I'm trying to say. You know, I'm constantly misunderstood, no one understands what I'm feeling in my head. And, you know, I never really talked about that stuff

to anyone until recently, but hearing all these messages for years from people like you now, I know that I'm, you know, finally starting to truly understand just how important community is, how important it is to talk to or just even to listen to someone who seems to understand you. If that person is understood by a lot of other people, then you can think, right, then I am understood by a lot of other people too.

There are a lot of us who feel like square pegs constantly trying to be crammed into a round hole. So maybe most people feel that way. If not, at least a lot of us do, and there is so much comfort in that. And I am so thankful that there is a community around this that you can pop in and say hi to people. Also, it sounds like you are following your passion, doing something for the love of doing it instead of just for the money.

And I hope that fills you with feelings of purpose and fulfillment that make you just feel great about your choice. I hope I can continue to be some, you know, similarly, similarly my mouth that I controlled it. Weird stranger who gives a voice to at least some of your thoughts. And finally, thank you for teaching and for helping one of the most vulnerable populations in the world find as much autonomy and self-worth as they can in this fucking insane rock we live on. You're a saint, Jessica. Thank you for slumming it with us sinners. And next up,

another awesome sack of Olivia Turner knows someone who could use some encouragement and love. She's a good egg too, like Jessica. And just wants me to say something quick. Alex and Wisconsin, your friends and family back in Tennessee and your girlfriend love you. Your time suck family, Jim, Amber, Sam and Olivia are here for you. All hail Overlord Bezos. Well, I don't know exactly what that inside joke is Alex, but I think I would love it. Now go get your dick sucked. Get out of nature. Enjoy being alive and here with the rest of us and keep your eye out for creepy dudes like David Carpenter, Hyde and the Bushes and be thankful that you have, you know, cool people like Olivia Turner looking out for you. Marvelous meets Zach another one my lean parks has a brother who is not a total piece of shit

and she wants this audience to know that she writes, Hey suck master and mistress of the spupi. I'm a new listener to time suck and scared to death love both so much. 3.5 out of 5 stars. Hey, Lucina. Uh, well, Lindsay, he's not here in this moment, but she forwarded this message to me. She says, thank you. And then she writes, I was hoping that you could do a shout out for my brother, Amon Parks. He showed me the podcast a couple of months ago is a Patreon supporter.

Listen to you, uh, all day is a trade worker. He's the best big brother a girl could ask for and I want his birthday on September 22nd to reflect that. I'm sorry for the long message, but if you do manage to get him a shout out, could you tell him that his favorite little sister, huh? So cute. Says happy birthday, booger. Thank you. Stay sucky and spooky forever. Your loyal cult devotee my lean parks. Well, my lean, I like your name, by the way, I'm not, I don't know that I've heard that one before. Very nice. First off, your message not even close to being too long.

Also, Ammon Parks, Happy Birthday, you beautiful bastard. I hope Lucifina entrances you, gives you all the pleasure, heart desires. Also, I hope you have a, I don't know, a tasty donut. I don't even know if you fucking liked donuts. But I'm guessing you do. Because they are delicious. One of my favorite treats, especially maple bars. I hope you have a maple bar so good that if I were to find out about it, it would make

me so jealous I would try and punch a fucking hole in the wall. He'll name it to you both. And finally one more from Gleeful Meat Sack, Z. Z has some great ideas and shares them writing, hey team, just wanted to see if, and that was a lot of wise there, that was not me adding that. Hey team, just wanted to see if, and that was a lot of wise there, that was not me adding that. Hey team, just wanted to see if we can do an informational shout out for new cult members. No doubt we'll get some newbies coming in because of our collective street team efforts.

I hope so. To truly appreciate the community, we should point them to the cult pages on socials, encourage them to post about where they found the sticker that was responsible for finding us. That is super cool. Yeah, please do that. If you're hearing this and have done that, I would serve as validation to those who are participating as well as an invite into this beautiful community we have. I've made a few friends on the Facebook page that have truly become family in some ways, and just think newcomers would appreciate that as well. Thank you so much for doing all that you do, and keeping all this going for us. We're all human,

and it cannot be easy work, but your passion truly shines through. Just know that you're helping us with your hard work. The community wouldn't be what it is if not for that. Thank you. Also, can I please give a shout out to Jeffrey San Felipe on our Facebook page. He's been very open with his health struggles with us and how hard it has been to keep his head up.

That's what the community is for. To Jeffrey, keep fucking pushing, man. Nothing will change what's happening to you, but your outlook changes what goes on around you. Keep being the best father you can be. Keep making the best of every single day on this planet. Keep making memories for that little boy. The cold has your back when you need us. And then to all, make sure to tell everyone you love how much you love them as much as you can. The only guarantee we have in this life that tomorrow was not promised, that all said, I love you all.

Z. Well Z, you are fucking adorable. Yes, that is so sweet. And yeah, Jeffrey, keep pushing. The world always has too many fuckheads in it. Like there's always a surplus of fuckheads and a shortage of fine folk. We need all the fine folk to stick around as long as possible to keep the ratio of fuckhead and fine folk from getting even more messed up.

Also regarding the communities, yes, there is the TimeSug podcast Discord channel. There's the TimeSug subreddit and there's so many private Facebook groups like it's insane. I love it. You know, if you're getting shut down a few times, it all splintered. Currently, our main hub is called to the curious three out of five stars. Seems to be very active, but a lot of others. There's the cold to the highly curious, the cold to the blue collar crew, cold to the

recovering, cold to the curious mental health, Luciferina's libations, Luciferina bound, Hail Luciferina dating group, and there's one called cult of the subgroups that has a lot of links to an insane amount of other groups. I've amended to shift more focus to promoting these groups, and this was a great reminder to do so Z. Yeah, so get in there if you're new, meet some people, and be weird to say, but I know there's a lot of people in there who like, they don't even like their life

doesn't allow them or whatever, whatever reason, they don't even listen to the podcast anymore, but there's still friends with's a lot of people in there who like they don't even like their life doesn't allow them or whatever whatever reason they don't even listen to the podcast anymore but there's still friends with a lot of other people in the group. So this is not even like a marketing ploy just get in there and yeah make some friends it's so many fucking great people and hail Nimrod everybody. Thanks time suckers. I need a net. We all did. Thank you for listening to another Bad Magic Productions podcast.

Scared to death, my god, scared to death, time suck, each week, secret suck, each week for space letters. Please do not head out on a hiking trail this week with a ray plan so you can focus your mind and help sell more fucking keychains and not stutter. Maybe we'll talk to a therapist. You know, instead because if that's what's kind of going on with you, you're super-duper week with a rate plan so you can focus your mind and help sell more fucking keychains and not stutter. Maybe we're talking with therapists. You know, instead because if that's what's kind of going on with you, you're super duper fucked up.

And on the way to and from therapy, please keep on sucking. I'm magic productions. Can we talk a little bit more about adult novelty keychains? Could you be friends with somebody whose keychain ornament was like a little dildo or like a clit vibrator or a picture of some naked lady, some sexual situation? I mean, if they were doing it as a joke, to get a rise out of me, yeah, sure, fine. You know, that's funny. I like some shock humor.

But if that's just how they live their life, I don't think I could. It's too much. Right, at least keep your sex toys in your pocket or your purse. So I'm not distracted while talking to you thinking, who is that fucking horny? Who needs that easy of access to that? It's a bit much, can we please agree that it's a bit much? And if you want to, maybe go to the comment section

of my special trying to get better and leave a lot of comments about adult keychains and what kinds you would like to have. Because that'd be pretty funny. they have. Because that'd be pretty funny.