Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 382 - The Riverside Killer: America's Forgotten Serial Killer

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

Sharing the life and crimes today of William Lester Suff aka the Riverside Killer. Convicted of killing twelve women after being arrest in 1992 after already serving nearly a decade in prison in Texas for murdering his own child. Come for the true crime, stay for the chili recipe... Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/EE36ytvUJSkMerch: https://www.badmagicmerch.comTimesuck Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious Private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch-related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard? Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast.Sign up through Patreon, and for $5 a month, you get access to the entire Secret Suck catalog (295 episodes) PLUS the entire catalog of Timesuck, AD FREE. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. And you get the download link for my secret standup album, Feel the Heat. 

In the second half of the 20th century, California not only seemed home to America's highest concentration of cults, but also to most of the nation's serial killers. We've already covered so many of them here. Randy, the scorecard killer Kraft, Richard, the night stalker Ramirez, Ed the co-ed killer, Kemper. Mother! Lonnie David Franklin, Jr. aka the Grim sleeper, the freeway killer, William Bonn and O'Billy gutter balls, the Golden State killer Joseph James D'Angelo, the dating game killer Rodney Alcala and many many others. One lesser known Southern California serial killer with a higher victim count than many of the monsters I just mentioned was a man whose name most of you are probably unfamiliar with. William

Lester Suff. Suff targeted women in and around the Southern California cities of Riverside and Lake Elzenore. Investigators believe he started killing women in 1986, not too long after serving almost 10 years in prison in Texas for a murder over there. After his arrest in January of 1992, Suff was connected to 19 murders. Some suspect that the, some suspect, the number could be much higher. Many believe that Suff is virtually unknown due to his victim demographic. Local sex workers, many of whom had criminal records and were struggling with addiction. Bill picked up these vulnerable women in his van and murdered them soon afterwards. In several cases, he remained at the crime scene to mutilate his victims.

By cutting their breasts off, posing them in sexual positions, always making sure to expose needle marks on their inner arms, others replacing dumpster enclosures as if the killer were telling the police exactly what he thought of these women. To most, for the entirety of his murder spree, Bill Suffs seemed like a normal guy. He worked for Riverside County as a stock clerk, hopefully delivered office supplies to law enforcement members of the very task force created to catch him. Sociopaths can truly hide their real natures from just about anybody. Behind the mask of a sweet kind man was the real bill, a violent predator who harbored a hatred of sex workers, hatred of women in general, really, a man who was incredibly

abusive to his wives and his own children. Today we'll discuss the life and crimes of Mr. Suff, a man who is incredibly abusive to his wives and his own children today will discuss life crimes of mr. soft a man filled with an incredible amount of rage rage only his victims children or those unlucky enough to date or marry him ever saw on another true crime edition but the first 2024 true crime edition of time suck this is Michael McDonald and you're listening to Time Suck. You're listening to Time Suck. Happy Monday, Mate Sacks. Welcome to another installment of the Cult of the Curious. I'm Dan Cummins, Suck Nasty.

You're one and only. True twin flame. Don't let anybody tell you different. It's guaranteed. Divine masculine, confused mind alignment process intern, and you are listening to TimeSuck. Hail Nimrod, Hailless Fena, praise be to Good Boy Bojangles and Glory be to Triple M and no announcements today. How about them apples? Ready to hear about a real, real naughty boy?

And I'm not just talking about some guy who just won't go peeping on a potty like a good boy. This guy's a true fucking monster. It seems like something snapped in this dude during his teen years. And he just kept getting worse and worse and worse until they finally put him away for good. Let's meet him. Here's how we're breaking down the sad, scary story of the Riverside Killer today. Very much a forgotten killer from the late 80s and early 90s, despite committing crimes just as savage as much more notorious murders. I'll start off with a brief overview of Riverside County, the central location of today's

story, followed by a full timeline of William's self's life and crimes, including the investigation that led to his arrest and the trial that followed. Also, quick heads up. If randomly you love to feast on a bowl of chili, some hot chili while you listen to time stock, you might want to skip your chili routine today. That'll make sense before this is all over. So where is Riverside County? Riverside County is actually located in hell. It's literally one of the worst places to live on earth. If not the very worst place, at least if you're a light worker like myself. With the current population of roughly 2.5 million people, over 2.4 million of them are confirmed a state level three or higher demon zombies.

The highest concentration of demonic zombies in the US and possibly the world, not all of the world's countries are taking Chad daybells very important true warnings regarding demon zombie infestations seriously. So unfortunately, we don't have like, you know, demon zombie census data from all the places we should. And so there's a small chance some other place, you know, could be worse by doubt it.

Based on current demon, zombie numbers, Riverside makes Sodom and Gomorrah look like Jerusalem and Bethlehem. It was actually a popular saying regarding all of this in Riverside, throw an orange in any direction and a demons bound to catch it and they'll never give it back. And now you have one less orange than you had before, you threw it and that's not like the worst thing ever,

but it's still kind of a bummer if you really think about it because that might have been the tasty orange. You were ever gonna have. Now for the rest of your life, every time you eat another tasty orange, you're probably gonna think, yes, orange is tasty, but I wonder if it's as tasty as the one I accidentally threw that stupid demon in Riverside.

I didn't say it was a good thing. It's just a popular one. Riverside's also known for having a lot of really bad too long why couldn't someone have edited that down a bit, sayings. And I'm of course, spouting a bunch of nonsense, a bunch of gibberish. Riverside County is located in Southern California,

East of Anaheim, with a current population of about 2.5 million people. That part was true. It is the fourth most populated county in California, the tenth most populated county in the US, despite the eastern half of the county being pretty sparsely populated with most of the mystical Joshua tree national park falling inside the county lines. Riverside County is part of an area known as Southern California's inland empire, defined as a metropolitan

area or region inland of an adjacent to coastal Southern California. County spans from the east end of the Greater Los Angeles area all the way to the Arizona border, Coachella of music festival fame and Palm Springs of Gulf spa resort and mid-century modern architecture fame located in the Coachella Valley region of Riverside County. County seed is the city of Riverside, 12th most popular city in California, 59th most popular city in the US with approximately 315,000 residents. Riverside also a principal city in the nation's 13th largest metropolitan statistics glaria, the Riverside San Bernardino Ontario MSA, with a population of almost exactly

4.6 million people as of the last, ranking just ahead of Detroit, Michigan, and just behind San Francisco, their MSAs. City's name for its location beside the Santa Ana River and the county is named after the city. County's European origins date back to the very end of the 18th century when Spaniards first established the Mission San Luis Ray DeFrancia at an indigenous village into Mescule, June 12, 1798. Current church builds in 1815, the third church built

that location. After the signing of the Treaty of Cordova in 1821, Mexico gained independence from Spain a little over a decade later. After the Mexican government passed the Mexican Secularization Act of 1833. California missions were desecularized and became government property. And then a series of land grants were issued throughout California. Several massive ranches were established in Riverside County in the late 1830s, 1840s. The no longer their town of La Placita, founded in modern-day North Riverside in 1843. It was the first real Mexican town of the area,

and for a few years, the largest colonial settlement between LA and New Mexico. In 1848, the U.S. took over California, winning it in the Mexican-American War. California's first 27 counties established in 1850. Same year, California became a state. Riverside, not amongst them, originally being part of both LA and San Diego counties,

later being part of San Bernardino and San Diego counties. California's 18th governor, Henry Markham, signed a measure to create Riverside County, March 11, 1893, established with land from both San Bernardino and San Diego counties, and the county has expanded a bit since its initial creation. 57 years after its inception in 1950, when Bill the Riverside Killer self was born, the county looked a lot different than it does today. Population only around 170,000. The county population would not surpass a million people until 1990. Thanks to so many less people, the area still looked a lot like a bunch of different towns and

cities with orange groves inside them and in between them, as opposed to the western half of the county today being best categorized as miles and miles of congested urban sprawl. Miles and miles of a steady rotation of residential areas and commercial areas and industrial areas, one city blending largely indistinguishably into the next. Speaking of orange groves, Riverside County historically, probably most famous for being the center of California's orange-based, massive agricultural boom

of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Riverside, the city now has 24 nationally registered historic sites, more than 100 city landmarks, that commemorate the city's citrus industry history. In 1873, the US.S. Department of Agriculture forever changed the history of Southern California when William Saunders, a horticulturalist for the department, sent two small Brazilian naval orange trees

to friend and riverside residents, Eliza Tibbitz, trying to seduce her with some sweet, sweet fruit. Those trees grown in ideal soil and weather conditions produced in an especially sweet and flavorful winter harvest fruit. Those trees grown in ideal soil and weather conditions produced in especially sweet and flavorful winter harvest fruit. And in less than a decade by 1882, there were more than half a million citrus trees in California. And almost half of those were in the area around Riverside. The development of refrigerated railroad cards, more modern irrigation systems made Riverside the richest city in all of America in terms of per capita income by 1895. It was an amazing place to live.

Ideal weather, beautiful mountainous desert topography, some big lakes, flowing rivers, lots of fresh fruit, a lot of good jobs to go around for a lot of people. Four decades later in 1939, the city was still a prominent place to live. The first screening of Gone with the Wind took place to the Riverside Fox Theater, one of the nicest most opulent theaters on the West Coast at that time. Today, still looked at as a nice place to live by many, but not as opulent, no longer a real prominent city.

When I live in Santa Monica, talks of Riverside, you know, usually framed as being shithole. I don't think it actually is, some LA snobbery going on there for sure, but definitely no longer considered like a place where the cool kids are living. Looked at more as a place where you can live if you want to be able to actually buy a

house, the yard, for the kids, if you can't afford to do that in the LA area. Western half of the county where today's story largely takes place, now largely associated with Southern California traffic. A lot of people commuting west for work and also poor air quality due to high levels of air pollution. So much smog. Actually, one of the worst counties in all of America as rated by the American Lung Association in 2020.

It's a very racially mixed area, but half the residents Riverside the city, for example, identifies as spanic. With 80% of those residents, Identifying is Mexican or Mexican-American, according to 2010 census data. About 7% identify as black, another 7% Asian, over half identifies white with some of those residents, also identifying as Hispanic. Today's story takes place largely in two cities

in Riverside County, Lake El Sonor, and Riverside. The city of Lake El Sonor, first established in 1888, the main feature of the city is the lake it's named after. Largest natural lake in Southern California, about 3000 acres, full of large mouth, bass, channel catfish, bluegill crappy, few rainbow trout, and other types of panfish. Lake Elsinore started off as a little resort lake town,

but steadily grew into a city of 70,000 residents roughly today. Back in 1950, when self was born, just over 2,000 people lived there. And the city of Riverside, back when Bill was born in 1950, had only about 47,000 people. So the whole area, way more rural than today. Lots of orange groves, good places to hide bodies, still inside the city limits. Poverty rate and riverside, 12.9% compared to a national average at 12.4, 2019 per capita income rate, $43,773, compared to a national average of 56,490. So no more poverty on average than the rest of the nation,

but also not as many absolute people on average as the rest of the country. Very middle class. Riverside, not a hub, not a major hub for a bunch of huge employers for some big economic sector like Big Tech, pharmaceuticals or something. Seems like it was also very middle class when Bill grew up in the area. And again, still very middle class when he went on his murder spree many years later. Crime-wise sources were all over the place when it comes to comparing Riverside crime rates with the overall national rates.

In general, it seems like Riverside County has a slightly higher rate of violent crime than the national average, quite a bit more property crime than the national average, but also quite a few less murders than the national average. Bill Suff would do his best to boost those stats in 1999, 1990, and 1991. And then just a tiny bit more now about the Riverside area before jumping into Billy Boy's timeline. Journalist David Lawer who wrote about Bill's crimes had this to say about him or about the county. Riverside is a burgeoning urban sprawl, which boasts a UC campus, Mount Rubido, and a county population

growth unmatched in any nearby region. Those who have traveled through the area often compare the trek towards the industrial area to that of the entrance to Dante's seven levels of hell. A thick veil of smog rests over the district and the permeating smell which emanates from many of the local factories is something most visitors cannot to describe. So, uh, guess my hell description earlier, not that far off, at least not according to David Lawers' assessment of the area. Guessing he lives in the LA area. Again, I don't think it's that bad at all. I think it's actually a pretty nice place. Uh, so why have you, unless you are a major true crime fan who likes exploring lesser-known killers, likely never heard of Bill Suff.

Well, like a lot of serial killers who only target sex workers, his crimes, they didn't really make waves. For him, they didn't really make waves in Riverside when they were happening. Back when Billy was killing because of who he targeted, the overall population didn't seem all that bothered about the murders. Not a not a surplus of empathy back in Riverside in the late 80s and early 90s. The area sadly reflected a lot of the nation's collective attitude towards sex workers at the time. They were terribly immoral women who, you know, if they didn't want to get

murdered, well, they should have had the decency to not sell their ass on the street. And if they, you know, chose to do that, well, then I guess they deserve whatever terrible consequences away to them. That really was the attitude. Sex workers were seen as subhuman in a lot of places. Definitely seems like they were viewed that way in Riverside, a blight upon the moral fabric of the area, a disease that needed treatment. And you know, one way to treat it was to remove it. One restaurant restaurant tour Pat Loveit owner of Granny's kitchen. It was a downtown restaurant and Riverside at the time. Interviewed by a reporter for the LA Times for an article that came out on February 8, 1991 said, if it were a bunch of housewives getting killed for little kids, then everyone will be running around with

the gun like vigilantes. But if it's prostitutes, people figure there's no concern of theirs. You know, it's just sex workers, so you know, fuck them. If they didn't want to die, well, they should have just went back to school, made some of them of themselves, right? They're not my daughters, sisters or moms, so why should I care? Same article, the sentiment echoed by an unnamed clerk at Ellsnor office products. When asked if she was worried about the murders and informed of a new killing, she said, there was another one.

I'm not real concerned. It's not the kind of people I have anything to do with, so I really haven't given a much thought. Jesus. And then one more for this article, the worst one. A real estate agent who declined to give their name because I'm guessing, you know, they knew, they were being a huge piece of shit when they said this,

they noted that the murders might scare away a few buyers or who knows, maybe you would make the area even more appealing. Might be a good thing. He or she said, but probably he. It's not like we have a hillside strangler here. We have a health nut. He's just cleaning up the town a little. Jesus Christ, you actually fucking said that in the newspaper.

Ah, we got it, it's serial killer. I see him as a health nut. Just cleaning up the streets a little bit, right? He's not killing people, he's killing sex workers. That's the kind of comment I would feel like a killer would read and use it as fuel to commit more killings, right? I'm doing a good thing, just cleaning up the streets. Why are they trying to arrest me?

I should be giving a fucking medal, key to the city, throwing a parade. Bill Suff new that the majority of people living in and around Riverside held real negative feelings about sex workers. He spoke often during his killing spree about how terrible they were. And I bet he almost found a real receptive audience,

you know, for comments he made. Now let's meet the man known as the Riverside Killer or the Riverside prostitute killer or the Lake Elzen or killer in the time site timeline after just a quick note about names. Our main source for the timeline and the best source out there about William's stuff from what we can tell is the Riverside Killer written by Christine Kiers, former Riverside detective and actually a member of the task force that took Bill down, and then true crime author Dennis St. Pierre, and this book was published in 1996. The author has changed a lot of people's names for privacy reasons, including the name of Bill's first wife, the names of some roommates.

We actually got his wife's name for some newspaper articles, changed the names for most of his family members, you know, where they, with their entirely omitted in the book, we were able to find some names and other sources, but not all of them showed up in old newspaper articles and genealogy databases. So I just want you to know that when we don't have names for some of the people here, it wasn't due to a lack of effort.

This might be in a prolific serial killer who killed not that long ago. Because again, the only target in sex workers, there just was not a lot of interest in this bastard, not a lot of investigative journalism done. Also, it seems like most of its family went to great lengths, greater lengths than a lot of the relatives of serial killers, to not be interviewed and not be associated with this dirty, dirty bird.

Okay, disclaimer done. Here we go. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time, time, time line. August 20th, 1950, William Lestersev born in Torrance, California. Torrance located in LA County, almost exactly 70 miles west of Riverside. Back in 1950, the population there about 22,000. Today it's about 150,000. The city boasts a long list of associations with notable people, including Chuck Norris. He moved to Torrance when he was 12. Actor, sex symbol,

Bo Derrick. Filmmaker, Quentin Tarantino, spent a few years of his childhood in Torrance. Bill was the oldest of five children. his mother Elizabeth, later Elizabeth Mead, had four boys and one girl. His biological father, not named, but any sources of records we can find. So, you know, I'd like to have some name to refer to him when I talk about him. So I've just made up a name at random. No relation to any, you know, real living person, just a completely totally random, made up name name and I'm just going to call him Pat say Jack. Pat say Jack Huff father of bill bill siblings Pat say Jack's other kids who did not grow up to also be serial killers born in 1952 1956 1957 and 1958.

According to the LA Times one brother's name was Kenneth Kenneth later told the Times that Bill was a typical friendly older brother. We got under fights like brothers do, but I'd ever remember him being violent or anything. Another brother was Robert. Third brother's name was Donald. Donald was arrested in 1994 from a less than a girl under the age of 13. So at least two of the five of Pat Sagex kids are sexual predators. If you take away nothing else from this episode, let it be that at least two of five of Pat SayJack's kids are sexual predators.

Pills parents got married November 26, 1949 in Virginia, moved to California before he was born. Pat SayJack, again, Bill's father moved to take a job in the aerospace industry but it's true passion was of course game show hosting i mean uh... drumming more in that later that's why for lizabeth has been described as a strict on come from uh... uncompromising housewife uh... the self-family move from torrents up north to fresno in central

california i don't know if that uncompromising party is true though based on some stuff that happens later like she did have to compromise. Self-family moved from a torrents up north to Fresno in central California shortly after Bill's birth where self-siblings were born. And Fresno, some existing marital problems apparently worsened. In August of 1960, the then 10-year-old Bill's father, Pat Sagex self, filed a divorce complaint, accusing his wife of mental cruelty and associating with men other than her husband.

That's a funny way of accusing her of maybe cheating on him. Associating with men other than her husband. Do I know she's sucking other dicks your honor? I don't. What I do know is that at the very least, she has been associating with men other than her husband. And she's probably been Associating her lips right around the dirty dirty wings. I can't prove it. You're on her but come on

Pat surprising considering what he'll do later demanded full custody of the kids a little bit tonight his accusations claimed he was the one doing the cheating divorce action did not proceed past the initial complaint Suffers were able to reconcile then they moved to Riverside County, where they first lived in a little town of Paris, about 3,000 people back then, even though over 80,000 lived there now, located between Lake Elzanoor and Riverside. And then they moved to a little Lake Elzanoor,

which had a mix of mostly middle class and low income families at the time, and Lake Elzanoor according to our main sources authors, Kieres and St. Pierre, the subfamily often teetered between two sides of the community, the respected, hardworking, churchgoing, family-oriented side, and the scandalous, impoverished, luckless, narrow-do-well side. The sub's accrued more detractors than supporters. So you know, this sounded like they were a little bit unstable.

They could have church for a while, try to walk the straight in narrow, and then fucking Elizabeth, we started associated with some straight cocks again, or Pat SayJack, which are flicking some straight ladywine beans, and they're off to fucking rails. Or that didn't happen. Something happened, though. What did for sure happen, like Elznor was Pat SayJack suddenly decided he needed to pursue a career as a drummer, as in right now. So the father of five kids says goodbye to a stable job with good money benefits and becomes a drummer for a few local country western bands that aren't doing anything

other than playing some local gigs. And I'm guessing singing some cover songs. And this of course, you know, negatively affects the family's finances very much. So, Pat say, Jack, being a little selfish, I'm sure this decision led to a lot of fighting at home. Outside of some financial troubles, Bill still seemed to enjoy a pretty traditional 1950s and 1960s suburban childhood though. When the family was living in Fresno, the self-scoot really into the Boy Scouts. Bill was a member, mom was a dead mother, dad was a trouplier, Lake Elzenore, Bill and a sibling spent a lot of their days playing in and near the lake,

and in the Cleveland National Forest, Bill also learned to play the trombone and the trumpet, later participated in the band at Lake Elzenore High School. Not much is said about how dad traded the kids, no mention of abuse, although she was not physically abusive, mom was said to be very unaffected, not mention of abuse, although she was not physically abusive, mom was said to be very unaffected, not very affectionate, little cold towards her kids. A lot will be made by some psychologists studying this case later.

Most of people interviewed some docu, docu, little documentary episodes about this, who will say that Bill desperately craved his mom's approval, but didn't ever feel like he really got it, and that this dynamic partially led to his murdering ways later. I don't know how much that's really true and how much that just makes for good sound bites on true crime docs. 1967 when Billy Boy is still 16, the sub family opens a cafe, is a source of income, and then one day, Bill's father, fucking Patsy Jack, told his wife Elizabeth he was quote going home to change his clothes and he'll be back at 3 30 but he didn't come back at 3 30 he

didn't come back at all when she went home after closing the cafe Pat say Jack was not there either do just it balanced ended up moving all the way across the country to Flint Michigan to live with his parents classic deadbeat dead classic Pat say Jack really uh mr. to live with his parents. Classic deadbeat dead, classic Pats A. Jack, really. Mr. Suffolk claimed that his wife had begun associating with another man, and that's why he had to leave. Back in Michigan, he'll remarry, have two daughters, then get divorced, then remarry again

when Bill gets arrested for numerous murders. And it doesn't seem as if this fucking deadbeat dead had any real contact with his kids, didn't really pay child support. You know, didn't just get a divorce, just abandon his entire family. All five kids. See ya. It's fucking crazy how often that happens.

I literally cannot imagine just abandoning all your responsibilities like that unless you're a sociopath. You know, I would think that the guilt would eat you alive. However, I have learned here over and over that so many of us meet sex are so good at rationalizing our terrible choices and Blaming everyone but ourselves when it comes to us doing bad shit Right, I guess and he just told everyone who would listen that it was all Elizabeth's fault Right she she forced him out. She left no choice He had to go fucking drum in Michigan.

And not live with this crazy woman. So shamed all these dicks. After the self-destroying was granted in February 1968, Elizabeth would have to go on welfare for herself and five kids to, you know, put food on the table. So fuck Pat's AJ. And now Bill takes on a paternal role with his siblings. Quote, following the times in the strict, critical pattern, his mother presented. That didn't help foster a positive relationship with his siblings. Bill apparently felt distant, separated from his brothers and his sister, although he will still occasionally spend time

with them or at least his brothers, when they're all adults. Sister is not really mentioned. She might have been like, fuck that guy. Fuck that creepy guy. Fuck that creepy guy. He also supposed it was the most responsible of the four soft boys when they were young. He was actually the good kid. He was the one who tried to keep his younger siblings out of trouble. Interestingly, some of his brothers allegedly did shit like hurting animals and starting fires, but not Bill, not Billy Goodboy. Internally, he was

clearly dealing with a lot of dark thoughts and impulse is based on his later behavior that wouldn't take very long once he left the house to express. Now attending Lake Elz and Orhai School, Bill would be a below average student who would graduate 87th out of a class of 144, but he did graduate. His former vice principal described him as a loner and said other students ignored him. He called Bill likable, but quote, pathetic. Pthetic is such a funny adjective. You know, you hear a lot of people, man, this guy's fucking pathetic. Ah, it's such a, it's such a rough one. Like I'd rather be called

like stupid and asshole lazy, like pathetic. Just, ooh, that one just like it stings a little bit more. Which I knew why he used that adjective adjective doesn't sound like he was a big fan of Bill Also how many of Bill's social problems were caused at least in part by his dad just walking out on him and his family when he was 16 Such a sensitive and important age and one's personal development Right his dad's been around his entire life and then just sneaks out doesn't such a shitty way Hey, I'll see y'all be back at 3 30 the cafe. I'll see you in a bit and then just sneaks out. Doesn't such a shitty way. Hey, I'll see you, I'll be back at 330, the cafe. I'll see you in a bit. And then just fucking leaps in the days before cell phones,

right? I'm sure for a while they're, they had literally no idea what happened to him. Like it's like the classic like, going out for a milk and cigarettes and they're just not coming home. Just abandon all his kids. That's gotta do some serious psychological damage.

Still, Bill does not immediately become a delinquent. No record of him being violent or showing any real red flag behavior wall in high school. Despite being perceived by some as being a pathetic loner, he was involved in band, chess club. He attended regular services with his family, the temples, temples, excuse me, Baptist Church and Paris. Also, enjoyed painting and music. Soon as a young adult, Bill will become aggressive and develop a disturbing pattern of violent behavior. Have trouble keeping a job,

develop a pretty bad habit of stealing a bar and money from people without paying them back. It is crazy how he goes from like, seems like this pretty good, you know, high school kid, yeah, loner, but like involved in a lot of things, not the best grades, but you know, getting good enough grades to graduate and then just like really goes off the rails

a couple of years later. We'll see throughout the timeline he was very good at compartmentalization and would only show the terrible side of himself to some people. Maybe he was just doing that in high school too. Maybe doing some sneaky shit I never got caught for. To most right up until his arrest,

he was able to hide his true nature and come across as a pretty, you know, nice, helpful guy. And now before meeting the first unfortunate love of his life, before things get dark for dear Billy, let's take the first of two midshow sponsor breaks. To hear these episodes, add free for $5 a month, you can just join our Patreon, become a Space Loser.

I'm back. Hope you are too. Time to meet Bill's first romantic interest, one of many, many people who will very much regret ever meeting this derby. At the 1968 Rolls-Bull game in Pasadena, January 1st, which Bill attended with his high school band, a chance encounter changes his life. He sees a pretty girl, his twin flame.

Sitting in stands, who will later again very much regret meeting this soon to be fucking sociopath, psychopath. She was wearing white jeans, they were dusty from the seats. He'd let her know that the back of her jeans had some dust on them. They started flirting. Then he managed to talk to this girl, Terrell, into going on a date. She reportedly liked to sense humor. Terrell later said the bill seemed very nice, good looking pleasant. The kind of guy a young girl would want to meet, because he seemed very sincere. Terrel was just 15. Bill was not quite 18.

After the two date for most of 1968 with no known incidents, following Bill graduated from high school in the spring, in January of 1969, still not sure what he wants to do with his life, not sure where he was working in the fall of 68 Bill and Liss in the Air Force also proposes to Tarot and they do get engaged. She didn't want to get married anytime soon. She promised her parents she would wait to get married until she graduated high school, but this this plan will change. Bill completed basic training at the Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. He attended Drum and Bugle School. Spent six months at the Shepherd Air Force Base in which tof Falls, Texas near the Oklahoma border.

Did some medical training there. Then assigned to the Carzwell Air Force Base in Fort Worth, Texas, where he worked as an aid in the pediatric ward of the Base Hospital. Then while in Carzwell, Terrell called Bill, told him she would have to end their engagement. She had been the victim of a Quaintance rape and had become pregnant. She didn't want to have an abortion for religious reasons. She was a Jehovah's Witness and she thought the right thing to do would be to put the baby up for adoption and end the relationship. Bill tells Terrell still wants to marry her and he wants to keep and raise the baby overjoyed thinking he is such a good dude

She agrees If only she knew how complicated all this would get and how Bill You know who was a really sweet right now would reveal himself to not be sweet at all very soon This incident maybe also changed him maybe he maybe he blamed her for somehow allowing herself to be raped, right? Just fucking old school shit. He thoughts about it. He certainly will get very possessive and real abusive towards her following this. December 13th, 1969, Bill Terrell to get married in Paris, California. So she won't have to face the social stigma at that time that came with being unmarried and pregnant while still in high school. But then Bill shares that now he's having second thoughts about the baby.

You know what, he actually doesn't want to raise it. He and his family convinced Terrell that she is too young to take care of a baby. And now once again, she plans to give the baby up for adoption. Bill returns to Texas, promises to have his new bride come live with him after she has the baby.

But then in order to be back in California for the birth, Bill gets the emergency leave he needs by telling his commanding officer that his baby had unexpectedly passed away So he tells us big lie then when he arrives back in California Terrell tells Bill she now is having second thoughts about giving the baby up for adoption She wants to keep the baby bills not having this he tells her that he had lied to get emergency leave and that they will both go to prison if the military finds out Right, he tells her that she simply cannot come live with him in Texas if she brings her baby Terrible leaves him About the possibility of her also being arrested even lots of bunch of bullshit

As you'd have never gotten in trouble for any of this and now she gives the baby to Bill's mom Elizabeth Who has just remarried and Elizabeth and her new husband take custody of the little girl who is named Dina and they decide to raise her as Bill's sister. This is all pretty fucking weird, right? Weird that they're going to raise her as Bill's sister. Weird that they don't plan on ever telling her that her sister-in-law is actually her mom and Bill showing some major manipulative tendencies here, telling a big lie to his commanding officers followed by another big lie to his new wife.

Terrell pressured into signing adoption papers, does so in April of 1970, before then going to live with Bill in Texas after she graduates high school. Down in Texas, Bill and Terrell almost immediately began to have marital problems. Bill extremely insecure and a jealous young man and just starts doing some crazy shit right off the rip. During one argument about his controlling behavior, Terrell tells him that she was a woman and not his possession. And she responded with no, or I'm sorry, she said he responded with no, you're my wife and that's all. She was his possession and his eyes, as you'll see. And Terrell here, she does remind me a lot of my wife, Lindsey, consistently refusing

to submit to be subservient. It's amazing to me that her disobedience and insistence on exercising her own free will has not led to me becoming a serial killer, especially since it's, you know, my dad and all probably my DNA. That running gag, by the way, I've had here with me joking about Lindsey, uh, is something I've been doing privately for most Americans. Uh, when I want to get a quick rise out of her, uh, I love to say stuff like, I just want you to know you're a good wife.

It's been a, it's been a real pleasure owning you. You are definitely one of my favorite pieces of property. And even though she knows I'm joking, it fires her up so much. It's so fun. Since I don't live near my little sister Donna, and I don't get to still torture her on a regular basis psychologically, this is the next best thing.

Scratch is the same of noxious older brother, itch. And don't feel bad for Lizny, for Lindsay. She has an older brother who also isn't around to be constantly harassed, so she does that to me. Constit mockery in the comments on. Okay, refocusing on the actual subject today, echoing Bill's own parents relationship problems, both he and Terrell now accuse each other of cheating. Right. They're both associated with other people. Not sure about Bill's accusations, but Terrell's accusations based

in reality. According to interviews with her years later, when Bill first brought her to Texas, he told her that he got himself a girlfriend, got in some side action, just tells her this while he's waiting for her to move in with him. And he actually asked Terrell to cut and color her hair to match this supposed now former girlfriend. Ballsy. Lindsay might literally fucking murder me for doing something like that. When Terrell refused to grant this ridiculous request, she said that Bill threw her across the room.

So cheating, physical abuse, and they've just begun their marriage. Cheating physical abuse after Bill lied to her about wanting to keep and raise her baby. After lying about how she couldn't bring the baby to Texas, you know, because she'd go to prison. So many red flags telling her to get the fuck out now. But Terrell is very young. She's already lived through the stigma of being pregnant in high school, a pregnancy from being raped back when, you know, people less likely to believe rape, rape victims than they are now. I'm guessing herself a steam not great and that she would, uh, you know,

not get a lot of social support for becoming a woman who has had a baby and a divorce before the age of 20. So she stays. And of course, as they pretty much always do in these situations, things get worse. Bill quickly becomes unhappy with her sex life now. He's demanding the Terrell, allowing him to tie her up during sex, she's not into that.

So he now rationalizes his cheating as being her fault. Right? They're having sex problems because she is frigid. So get divorced. Right? You're married too young. You're not right for each other. End it, but they don't.

Bill fucks around while also becoming insanely possessive of tarot, which is a fairly typical pattern for assholes like this. Bill was so controlling that he didn't even allow tarot to go grocery shopping alone. He would call her several times a day to check on her while she was working at a restaurant as a waitress, making sure she's not sneaking off and fucking somebody, not associated with other men, who are in her husband, like father like son, perhaps here, maybe a chip off the old Pat Say Jack block. Terrell will tell authors, Kieres and St. Pierre Bill could be very quiet and very wussy, wimpy. He could also be very strong and domineering, depending on what he thought was needed at that moment. So, you know, he's super manipulative. That sentiment will be echoed by others later.

One day, Terrell threatens to leave Bill during another argument. She still worked as a waitress and Bill would accuse her of cheating on him, even if she came home late. Even if it was just like a few minutes, just enough time to associate a dick right into her mouth, Bill would tell her shit like how, you know, she wouldn't survive without him.

Terrell shouted him after this one time she comes home a little bit late, that she would make it on her own, even if she had to quote, be a prostitute. And following that comment, Bill slaps her so hardy knocks her across the kitchen. The abuse is escalating as they, as it almost always does in these situations. Terrell will leave Bill twice while they lived in kitchen. The abuse is escalating as it almost always does. In these situations, Tara will leave Bill twice while they lived in Texas. The first time she left for a week, she called her mom for advice

and her mom told her she should go back and work things out with him. Of course, right? Unfortunate sign of the times. Who cares if he hits you? Calls your names. Cuses you of cheating, Concealing. He's your husband.

Best you just figure out what you're doing to make him want to hit you and call your names, accuse you of cheating, counseling. He's your husband. Best you just figure out what you're doing to make him want to hit you and knock that off. This, this right here, one of the reasons why it's so important to talk about mental health, domestic violence, women's rights. If people hadn't talked about shit like this the past half century, if the feminists that the in-sell community so despised for fighting for women's independence hadn't have fought for that. This could easily still be the social norm today. December of 1970.

Bill, just 20 years old now, discharged from the Air Force, despite signing a four-year contract two years earlier. His records about the discharge were sealed. He'll later testify that he was honorably discharged, but one of his brothers told authors Kieres in St. Pierre, not true, he was dishonorably discharged. Another source indicated to the authors that he was discharged because he could not function in a military environment, whatever that means. What did he do?

Well, probably never know. But clearly young Bill struggling in various aspects of his life, personal and professional. Over the next few years Bill will struggle to stay gainfully employed, so abusive and fucking lazy. It's quite the catch. He and Terrell struggle to make ends meet. Terrell continues to work as a waitress. We'll also work sometimes as a telemarketer. Bill will work short stents as a fry cook, delivery truck driver, ambulance aid, warehouse worker, and parking lot attendant in Texas. And he'll lose nearly all those jobs by getting fired as opposed to quitting. He's not only fired from his job as in parking lot attended in Texas and he'll lose nearly all those jobs by getting fired as opposed to quitting.

He's not only fired from his job as a parking lot attendance, also arrested and convicted of auto theft. So not doing great. Suff's future defense attorney and his murder trial, the trial about, you know, the murder to committed, John L. Gamboa said, it probably troubled him deeply to be an intelligent, extremely manipulative man. Obviously not reaching his potential. He felt like he was dealt a bad blow in life, just one of those people who just didn't seem to fit it. I played the victim classic loser move. I like how even his defense attorney refers to him as being not just manipulative,

but extremely manipulative. Bill continues unsurprisingly being jealous and controlling of tarot. One day when tarot was about nine months pregnant with her second child, she and Bill walking home from the movies when a group of guys whistled at her, you know, cat called from their car. Tarot told Kieres and St. Pierre, Bill went absolutely ape shit over it. He started screaming at them, then screaming at me. Who are they? I said, hell, I don't know. Then he was chasing down the street, threatening to kill them. I said, Christ, almighty bill, I'm pregnant. How sexy can I be when I'm almost nine months pregnant? He called down after that, but it was kind of unnerving. Couples first child, Pat SayJack Huff, named after his grandfather, born November 27, 1971. He was not named Pat Say Jay. He was named William Lester sub Junior and

Poor little Billy not born into a happy or safe home at all Bill stuff easily one of the worst dads we have come across here He always seemed to have a variety of mysterious bruises on his body started when he was just a few months old little Billy Those bruises consistently would show up after Bill had been watching him so weird Bill will Bill will tell Tarot that he was injured by things like, you know, the knob on the cradle, you know, he just fell down, then Tarot saw Bill slap little Billy in the face because he was fussy due to teething. Literally slapped a fucking baby in the face, a baby about three or four months old when this happened. She told Bill to never do that again. He responded that Billy needed to learn to stop crying when he told him to. Yeah dude, that's not

how fucking babies work. Their brains, much like yours, not fully developed. Bill just keeps establishing himself as a bigger and bigger piece of shit, right? Couldn't hack it in the military, can't hold a job, beats his wife Beats his baby, pathetic loner in high school. A good thing he didn't try and raise Terrell's first baby. If this is how he treats his own son, how would he have treated a baby that was not his? Speaking of babies, March 10th, 1972, Little Billy goes to the hospital for severe bruises across his face, abdomen, and back. Jesus Christ, Bill claimed, you know, he hit himself with a rocking crib. How many times Bill? Uh, little Billy was transferred to child welfare, but the

case worker could not keep him in state custody for an extended period of time without further, you know, legal action. Something fucking red tape bullshit. He goes back to his parents. Back home, Bill's violence does not stop with his wife and child. It extends to family pets as well. One day a new family kitten was standing in the doorway, meowing. After screaming at it to shut up, Bill shoots the kitten in the head with a baby gun and kills it. Teryl freaks out and then he tells her it was just an accident. He was just trying to scare it. Bojangles actually thinks this part of the story is pretty funny.

Bad Bojangles, bad dark. Despite all the abuse, Terrell stays and gets pregnant again. And on July 20th, 1973, Bill and Terrell's daughter, Dejane Jean-Sophisborn, is born and she is quickly nicknamed D.D. And Bill, right from the start, does not give a fuck about D.D. Does not want her. Starting to seem like this guy just hates women in general, probably hates mama, hates his wife,

now hates his infant daughter. He straight up tries to give D.D. away to the neighbors, but they refuse to take her. Then when she is just a month old, Terrell starts to notice bruises on D.D.'s body. Bill tells her that little Billy is the one causing bruises. You know, he's just hugging D.D.'s body. Bill tells her that little Billy is the one causing the bruises. You know, he's just hugging D.D. too hard. Mm hmm.

He insists that he knew what he was talking about here because you know, he used to work in the pediatric ward at the Bayes Hospital, you know, before the Army kicked him out for being a piece of shit. Wonder what the fuck he did to the kids under his care there. Did he sneak in some abuse? Was that why he was discharged? I would not be surprised. Few weeks later, after more

mysterious, but not really that mysterious bruises show up on the night of September 24, 1973, two month old D.D. starts vomiting. Teryl wants to take her to the hospital. Bill says it's not necessary. And now he brings up his experience at the pediatric ward. He's like, nah, I got this. Very next day, Teryl's at work now, bills at home, watching, and beating the shit out of the kids. Calls his wife at noon saying, it's DD come home quick. When Terrell gets home, Bill's crying.

Then he says some weird shit. He says, please don't hate me for leaving her. Please don't hate the world. Hate the world? What's he talking about? Terrell now sees that her brooze daughter is not breathing. She calls 911, DD is pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. Bill told the police he was cleaning the living room while D.D. was in the bedroom. When he went to check on her, he said he found her face down on the floor, not in her bed, didn't detect any vital

signs, and then ran to a payphone, not to call the fucking ambulance, but to call Teral. After the police left, Bill tells Teral a different story, a ludicrous outrageous get the fuck out of here that did not happen story. Bill explains to her that he was not a member of the Air Force. He was, uh, that was a cover story for his real job as a CIA operative. Right, of course, he was a big time elite CIA agent, cream of the crop, super spy, very important man, everybody. He told her that he had briefly gone outside and that while he was out, someone else from the CIA snuck into their apartment, killed D.D. as a message to stay quiet about something. But that seems reasonable. But Terrell knew

that Bill had told the police he didn't know who had killed D.D. and he said that little Billy may have heard of while he was out using the pay phone. And then the autopsy report comes back and you might want to hit the skip button for this next part. Just skip 30 seconds ahead. If you don't want to hear how did he died. I know we talk about a lot of brutal shit here, but we tend not to talk about it being done to babies. This is fucking brutal. Here we go. If you're still listening, Dejan Asuf died from a wild amount of physical abuse. Bill had ruptured her liver. Medical experts later testified that extreme force is necessary to rupture liver

that it literally wouldn't be possible for little Billy to apply that kind of force. Later assumed that she had been punched in the liver very hard by her monstrous father. Didi also covered with bruises, had serious injuries that were two to three weeks old. This is a barely two month old baby. 13 broken ribs, broken arm, dislocated shoulder,

palm print shaped bruise on her fucking face, those not even the most disturbing injuries. Also had adult bite marks on her forehead and stomach. Finally, worst one, cigarette burn on the bottom of her foot, so severe it went down to the bone. This two-month-old child was fucking tortured, her whole, very short life. Fuck Bill Suff, and honestly, fuck Terrell too, for not grabbing her kids and fleeing before this happened. Right, her baby wasn't maybe being abused. She knew, right? There's very obvious bruises, bite marks, and she still left the kids with him.

I don't think we should give even other abuse victims when they're adults, a moral pass for not doing shit to protect the helpless baby. Two days after the police find little DD dead, so September 27th 1973, 23 year old William Lester, suff charged with the murder of Dijonet, suff. Little over four months later, February 5th 1974, Terrell, suff, also charged with her murder. An intentional affliction of injury thanks to Bill, doing everything he could to blame her for the abuse. Both Bill and Terrell will go to trial in April of 1974. Bill's attorney, John Gamboa, tried to find mitigating factors for the defense.

Bill refused to talk about his parents or siblings, which is interesting. What may have went on in his childhood that he, you know, just wouldn't address. Neighbors, home visitors, landlords testified about Bill's violent behavior and various incidents of abuse involving his children, arguments with Terrell, unwillingness to work, other incidents of problematic anti-social behavior.

Bill's defense tries to portray him as a loving father and a former Air Force corpsman to medically dedicated to even consider, inflicting harm on another human. Terrell testifies that Dijon A may have died due to little Billy, loving and hugging her. She probably just wanted to believe that to alleviate her own guilt. Also testify that she had not witnessed any child abuse, which is not true. She'll admit that many years later. Bill gets on the stand to nigh's any responsibility for the murder.

April 11, 1974, both Bill and Terrell convicted of murder. Both receive 70-year sentences. 74 both Bill and Terrell convicted of murder both received 70 years sentences and then Bill gets another three years on a separate theft charge Then on January 21, 1976 the state court of criminal appeals upholds Bill's murder conviction but reverses Terrell's conviction The appeals court found that there was no evidence Terrell had been involved in the murder of her child So Terrell now begins divorce proceedings Terrell had been involved in the murder of her child. So Terrell now begins divorce proceedings. She tells Bill, I just want a divorce, I just want my maiden name back, I don't want anything from you, I just want out of the marriage.

Why, I thought there were twin flames. Guess not. Bill wrote her letter that said, this is, he is such a piece of shit. This is what his letter said. I'm surprised and very deeply hurt. Why, oh why, are you filing for divorce? That's a very wicked thing to do. What's more, it doesn't sound like the devout Jehovah's Witness you professed to be.

Well, if that's what you really want, I'll not contest it in any way, shape or manner. Let your conscience be your guide. The fucking nerve of this baby torturing wife beating piece of shit to talk to anybody about their conscience. Fuck this guy. Why was he murdered in prison? Come on, Texas. This Texas in the 70s Disappointed and the Texas penal system for not accidentally letting a prison gang have unsupervised access to Bill for, I don't know, five 10 minutes. Just enough time to beat that sick fuck to death, time to rupture his liver, put some cigarettes on him and shit. Bill even wrote a letter to Terrell's mother, trying to blame her for the murder. He wrote that he was religious enough to forgive Terrell and would still love her. Oh my god. He claimed that he had passed two polygraphs, but Terrell

had refused three times to take one. What do you make of that? Huh? Huh? Part of it letter stated, quote, only Jehovah knows who caused the death. Well, the fucking jury knew you piece of shit. Only Jehovah knows who caused the death

and can judge the guilty person or forgive that person. All I can do is forgive and ask Jehovah's blessing for those that have done me wrong, right? Terrell, I've been praying for Jehovah to bless and forgive Terrell. For any thoughts of divorce, she may have in her mind. I've already forgiven her. God, he's so noble. He's so righteous. He ended with if and I have to say if because I do not know, if Terrell is responsible for Deisione's death, I have to forgive her for that too. I know that I didn't hurt Dijonet and so does Jehovah. In this moment, I hope that hell is real

and I hope he's burning alive there. The divorce, I guess he couldn't be burning alive because he's not dead, but I hope he's gonna be burning alive there. The divorce finalized February 25, 1976. Around the same time, little Billy diagnosed with intellectual problems due to the physical abuse he suffered at Bill's hands.

So before being arrested, beat one kid to death, left the other kid with brain damage. Terrell and Bill both relinquished their parental rights on October, good. And little Billy's adopted, according to Kieres and St. Pierre, Billy was able to grow up normally with almost no symptoms of his original problems. Luckily, the brain can largely heal itself sometimes, especially when the abuse happens when someone's very young. Meanwhile,

Bill is a model prisoner. He, of course, you know, lied to other inmates, you know, said he, he said he was in prison for attacking his wife's lover. To be had someone familiar with what he really did didn't leak that accidentally to the other prisoners. One of the many reasons I can never be a correctional officer. I don't think I'd be able to help myself. Hey Jack, I see him in a lot of time with the new guy, Billy. I'm surprised. I said, take you for a guy who liked to get friendly

with, you know, baby killers. Oh no, no, yeah, no, he beat his daughter to death, torture her too. In a situation like that, I would lie. I would make up some other shit too. Now, I mean, he probably molested her. I mean, he definitely molested some other kids, definitely raped him. You know, some of the neighbor kids, brutal stuff. Almost raped into death.

Anyway, have fun with your new Peto baby killing buddy. Guess maybe you're one of those guys. And then maybe I'd accidentally drop a ship on the ground. Ha, what do you look at that? Anyway, take care Jack, do the right thing. While in prison, build a human turd, participated in the prison band, even got his bachelor's degree in sociology in 1980, so that's cool. And he'd make a great social worker, clearly.

March of 1984, after serving just nine years and nine months for torturing and beating his fucking baby to death, he's paroled. What's the fucking point of giving somebody a 70 year sentence, actually 73 years with the other charge, if they can just get out in less than 10. It's a stupid little game. Why is anyone ever released, ever after beating a baby to death? I feel like that specific crime should always carry at minimum a life sentence with no possibility of parole.

We should pass a new national law. If you abuse a child to death, there's literally no chance in hell. You ever go free again. We could call it the fuck you forever baby killer law. Also maybe with that law, you get baby killer fucking tats on your forehead. And baby killers should be given the least amount of freedom while in prison. There should be special cells for baby killers. They're like three foot by three foot. A guard time I'm supposed to ever lay down. Well that's not my problem. Baby killer,

how about you go fuck yourself? Guard's my back. It's killing me. I've from not being able to lay down. I had to see a doctor. No, no, you don't. It's not gonna happen. Tough shit, baby killer. If you want to get your back to feel better, well you probably need to invent a time machine. What? Well, you know, so you can go back and and not kill a baby you piece of shit. If you can go back in time and not kill a baby, well your problems will be solved. This fuckers released because prisons and texts at the time were overcrowded and he was classified as a low risk of fender. You know, I feel like a better way to deal with prison overcrowding would be to just execute baby killers. We can start with baby killers. Then execute pedophiles and rapists and murderers with multiple offenses. And if the prison is still crowded, now we execute and like just quickly pedophiles and

rapists and murders with single offenses. I mean, that would really cut down an overcrowding. Oh, and also maybe more importantly, we release everyone in prison for non-violent drug offenses. Now there's so much room. everyone in prison for non-violent drug offenses. Now there's so much room. So much room for the worst of the worst. Easy peasy problem solved. Bill wrote in his residence plan that he wanted to move to California, officials in Texas

in California, approved the plan, and now he's paroled to Riverside County. Let's hit her to night him. What do you want to do? Uh, move to California. No. Why not? Well, because you're a baby killer. So you know, fuck you and what you want to do? Uh, move to California. No. Why not? Well, because you're a baby killer. So, you know, fuck you and what you want to do forever.

Nice talk. Uh, Bill, the baby killer, son of sage, act! Now, I'm moves back, and with his mother, and her second husband, Riverside County, Sunset City, uh, which was at this time a retirement community developed in 1962 for seniors 55 and over. Bill's stepfather described as being very strict critical and demanding a male counterpart to the tough maternal influence in the household Bill and stepdad dislike each other Yeah, I bet they did

I doubt a step that was super thrilled about a fucking baby killer coming to live with him That would be a deal breaker for me 100 percent Uh, yeah, no, you're shittyson can live here, but after you know, you and I get a divorce and I'm not living here Bill sister Dina Terrell's daughter only 13 or 14 now also dislike him Terrell told Kieres and same peer that based on her conversations with the girl She didn't like bill at all and argued with him a lot She said she tried to avoid him as much as possible sometimes he would search her out start to argue with her Then she would say get on my face. Leave me alone. I don't know why she didn't like

him. She never said she just didn't like the way he acted. How did Terrell feel about the man who killed one of her kids? Beat another into intellectual, intellectual, intellectual disability, living with her remaining child. How did she not try and stop him from living there? How was he allowed to live in a home with any children? In it after what he did. Why is she talking to the girl she gave away that supposed to be, you know, like Bill's fucking sister. So many questions. Soon after moving in with mom, Bill Biles large amount of money

from her claiming he needed it to pay for a divorce. What she didn't know was that Terrell had already paid for the divorce. So the low risk release immediately gets back to some of his old manipulative tricks. Elizabeth finds out the truth about her son when she talks to Terrell on the phone. Bill also shortly after making into California tries to contact Terrell by leaving a message with her roommate that he'd been released from prison. Terrell told authors again, here's in St. Pierre. He said he knew where I was.

And if he couldn't have me, no would so you know real nice guy low threat You know, it's not like he's immediately threatening his ex-wife the second he gets out of prison Maybe after maybe working things out with mom and giving her money back. It's never made clear if he did that or not He probably didn't give it all of it back if he gave some just based on who he is a bill gets a job for a couple months to in data entry But a local computer company before getting fired Bill gets a job for a couple of months to in data entry at a local computer company before getting fired Not surprise Bill would live with his family until the summer of 1984 after his data entry job He works to make donals for six months before probably getting fired doesn't say Following moving out, uh, he'll stay in touch with his brothers

Not sure he sees mom or sister or stepdad very often if at all Pro officials will check in on bill monthly for the first three years following his release. In 1987, Texas will then relax Bill's parole status and he'll only have to report to his pro-loved officer once a year now and he'll only do that once. No one will notice when he stopped checking in with his pro-loved officer in subsequent years. That's cool.

Texas only realized he hadn't been checking in when he was later arrested again in 1992. Fuck sake. Before Bill now meets his next twin flame, time for our second of two mid show sponsor breaks. And I'm back. Time to meet the new lucky lady. Backing up to July of 1984, Bill now 33 meets an older woman named Bonnie Ashley. His one true twin flame.

Sorcerer don't reveal her age. She just listed as being older. For fun. Let's pretend she's somewhere between 1900. They'll have an off and on again relationship for the next five years. Bill will soon move into Bonnie's home in Lake Elginor and Freeload like the fucking bum he was. Bother's Kieres and St. Rote that Bill might have been attracted to Bonnie because he was reaching out for an affectionate mother figure. Maybe she was quite a bit older. Probably not 90.

Maybe in her 50s. Let's pretend that she was in her 50s, but looked like she was between 90 and 100. Bonnie will later say that Bill was never abusive or violent towards her and that he never even shouted at her. Well, he found a meal ticket. She was actually doing very well for herself.

She was a successful real estate agent. And he didn't want to fuck it up. Right, he'll take his aggression out towards other women. Bill and Bonnie were at least according to Bonnie happy together for a few years. They once went on a trip to King's Canyon National Park where Bill purchased some t-shirts as a souvenir. As detailed about the t-shirts,

we'll later turn out to be an important piece of evidence against him. Early in the relationship, Bill spent a lot of those a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more committee members he was just never caught for. Outwardly it appeared as if Bill decided to turn over to new leaf in California. To most people he came across as kind and helpful. But of course he usually had ulterior motives when he was being nice. He would win a lot of people over. He would see mostly so he could ask them ask them for small amounts of money that he would never repay. He also held Bonnie take care of her home and other property shamed and even helped take care of her elderly mother. Wonder how much he flees from her. Bill is brother Robert.

We'll later remember how one day when he and Bill were cleaning up in Bonnie's yard, Bill made a comment about how much he hated prostitutes. He said it was strange because he said it was zero prompting. They weren't talking about prostitutes. It just kind of came out of nowhere. Bill had actually been paying sex workers already at this time. He'd been paying them since he first moved back to California, those poor women, but he frequently professed publicly against things like drugs, alcohol, and sex work.

According to one anonymous sex worker, he was a regular, who was a, you know, a regular, Bill was a regular client of hers. Bill was real into bondage and whips, right? He liked to hurt people, also allowed her to use as a department to do drugs, bill engaged in some serious compartmentalization. Now already living two separate lives. In April of 1905, Bill is offered a position to work at a computer store in Lake Elzenore before he's hired. Bill had stopped by

often to talk with the owners and identified married couple. He and his, uh, uh, the owners, uh, the husband of wife, um, complained about how Lake Elginor's main street had declined because of sex work and drugs. Couple talked to Bill about a revitalization campaign for Main Street to get rid of the sex workers that were starting to frequent the downtown area in recent years. Bill hung up postures with them advertising their, uh, campaign repeatedly expressed how sex workers disgusted him. Wonder if any of the sex workers who, you know, he had hired saw him do this.

Like if you're a sex worker and you see a client of yours doing something like that, maybe avoid that conflicted fucking maniac at all costs going forward. Just a thought. Now, the couple eventually offered Bill a sales job. Bill was to be paid in commissions, but he failed to sell literally anything for six months because you know, he was a lazy worthless sneaky pile of shit. The owners now paid him to babysit their kids or help out around the house because they felt bad for him and they had no idea that he'd been arrested back in Texas, right? He would

routinely lie about stuff like that on job applications. This couple became friends with Bill to the point that they even offered him a room in their house, terrifying. But Bonnie did not approve of that because the husband was often out of town. She didn't want her precious Billy boy to be alone with this woman. She told Bill, they told Bill that they were over. If Bill moved in with this couple, so he chose to stick with his meal ticket and he reduced contact with a couple after that. June of 1986, Bill gets a new part-time job in an appliance store, unlike Elznor owned by an elderly couple. They thought Bill was very liable.

In reality, he was stealing money from their cash register to pay sex workers. It's kind of such a pile of shit. He has no redeeming qualities. The owner usually would leave Bill alone in the store on Sundays when they go to church. And while they were at church, he would bring women into the store alone in the store on sundays when the good church and while they were at church he would bring women in the store uh... lock the store up so no actual paying customers to come in and have sex in the back room and then take money out of the register to pay them pay the women he supposedly hated looked down upon

when the couple finally found out that he was still in money he confessed promised to pay them back and for some reason these people to kind he was so manipulative, they forgave him, and he would keep that job until the until April of 1989, worked there almost three years, never paid the couple back any of the money he stole. Should have taken it out of his fucking wages, but he didn't. Backing up to October of 1986, when Bill was still working on the appliance store, he also started working part-time for Riverside County as a stock clerk at the county warehouse.

A job that would bring him into close contact with law enforcement. His main duties were filling orders for office supplies and furniture. Bill again lied about his criminal record on this job application. No one around him other than his family knew back when background checks were harder to perform than now that he was out on parole for killing his own child. And he had his family convinced, or at least like partially convinced that somebody else beat his daughter to death. And he know he took the fall for probably mom, probably tarot. Bill enjoyed his job at the warehouse. He was social with everybody. Well liked amongst his

co-workers. He even participated in the employee bowling league and organized the first chili cookoff. At the annual county employees picnic, a cookoff he would win several years in a row. So I guess he does have one redeeming quality. He can make a mean bowl of chili. How good would that chili have to be, by the way? For you to keep eating it, if you knew that the cook was a baby killer.

Like hopefully you really hate baby killers. But what if you also really love chili? And he makes literally the best chili you've ever had by a long ways. It's the best food you've ever had by miles. Do you take a mortal sand and avoid everything he has anything to do with? Or are you like, I'm gonna tell that guy to go fuck himself. As soon as I figure out how to make this chili, god damn it, chili's good. A few years later, while the serial killer task force is in operation, they'll need a lot

of office supplies and Bill will sometimes deliver supplies to the very officers trying to find him and discuss the case with those investigators. He wants to tell the deputy that the killer was murdering sex workers, you know, to clean up the street, kind of doing a good thing. If you think about it, you must have loved feeling

like he's not smart in them feeling powerful, right? These pathetic dipshits always do. His old vice principal was right. He is pathetic. Those kids back in high school correct to ignore this twisted loser. Bill also showed off his helpful side by participating in a ride share program with fellow county employees. He actually drove his coworkers around in the same van he was using to pick up and kill victims. Had him fooled. Most of them. Not everyone thought Bill was a standup guy. Bill was known for making a lot of sexual jokes at work which made at least one of his female co-workers uncomfortable, but whenever she would complain, you know, her complaints would be brushed off. I hope she after he was

arrested for being a serial killer at least had a real good, I fucking told you guys moment. You know, with her co-workers. A few coworkers, all she complained, he spent a lot of time bullshitting instead of working. Bill was hyper, easily distracted, used more sick leaves than any other employee, claimed he couldn't do heavy lifting because of a back injury from motorcycle accident, but man, never had trouble lifting something

if it was like, you know, served him in some way personally. Bill also often borrowed gas money from coworkers, didn't pay them back. He sounds like a fucking piece of shit. Just even, you know, outside of the crimes, he's committing. He'd also probably started killing by now. His first suspected victim died the same month

Bill was hired at the warehouse. October 30th, 1986, the body of 23 year old Michelle of vet Gutierrez found in the Rubido industrial area near the city of Riverside, California. Body's found near Aquamanza road and market street by man who was out searching for aluminum cans. Found Michelle's remains in a drainage ditch. She was laying on her back her blouse and shorts shredded. She was covered in blood. Her genitals had been, quote, mutilated. So much rage. This guy ran to a nearby factory to find help. Michelle's autopsy found that she suffered massive

trauma to both the anal and vaginal areas also stabbed multiple times in the face, chest, and buttocks. Had ligature marks on her neck suggesting strangulation. Raped, tortured, strangled. Bill would do this to a lot of women. But would never be charged with this murder due to less forensic evidence than will be present in multiple other area murders, but as we'll see, it definitely at least partially fits his amount. Month and a half later, December 11, 1986, the body of 24-year-old Charlotte Jean Palmer found near Highway 74 in Romoland, census designated place south of Paris, about

25 miles from the Gutierrez site. Showed his body badly decomposed, the corner could not determine a cause of death. Bill will be charged with this murder, but the charge later dropped due to a lack of evidence. As is often the case with serial killers, when they have enough evidence to firmly convict someone of enough murders to make sure that they're never going to walk free again, they generally don't pursue expensive additional know, expensive additional cases that will be harder to prove in court. Six months later, May 2nd, 1987, the dead body of 27 year old woman, Martha, the best young found in Riverside County in some hills east, I

15, not far from Lake Elzenore. Her body left naked in a spread eagle position. Martha originally from Albuquerque, New Mexico. She had a long history of sex work. Drugs were found in her system. She had been reported missing the previous week, April 27th. She'd actually been dead for about three weeks. Her exact cause of death never determined due to decomposition. Thought she died from a combination of a fatal dose of methamphetamines and strangulation. Bill suspected of committing this murder, but again, not charged. Early 1987, Bill moves out of Bonny's place after some type of argument, even though there were twin flames. In June, he gets into a motorcycle accident. He sadly survives. His hospitalized for three days, Bonny takes pity on him and invites him back

so she can take care of him. Twin flames reunited. January 18, 1998, the body of 21-year-old Lisa Lasek found at the bottom of Cliff in the man's Anita Flats area of the San Bernardino National Forest. Unlike most of the other victims who were white, Lisa was black. She had been dead anywhere from two to five days. Investigators could not determine if she had been raped or strangled, but suspected it definitely stabbed in the abdomen with a serrated knife, which was her official cause of death.

Killer had repeatedly stabbed that same spot three to four times. And also cut off her right breast completely. Hopefully she was dead when that happened, but sadly, I doubt it. Flashbacks for me of the Chicago's Ripper crew. Lisa had two sons who were just five and six years old when she died. Lisa, another one of the early victims that Bill is suspected of killing one of the only victims whose body was found outside Riverside County. He'll never be charged for, or never be convicted this murder. When her killer saw Lisa, she was standing on the corner of eight and eight

streets in front of a convenience store in San Bernardino Lisa's friend Connie also worked in there looking for work She spotted Lisa the store went over to say hello at the same time a Dodge van pulled up next to her Connie took a look at the driver. He was in his 30s. Heavy set. Stubble brown hair Bill was 37 this time brown hair did typically have stubble on his face was overweight was 37th this time, brown hair did typically have stubble on his face was overweight. Something felt especially off about this man to Connie. If Bill was the killer and he probably was, he had intentionally driven an hour away from like Elzenore, so you know, no one would recognize him.

He offered Lisa a hundred bucks for sex. Lisa's told Connie about the offer before she got into the van. She thought it was too good to be true. Lisa said she was going to the palm hotel with the guy. Connie tried to remember the license plate as they drove off, only got the last three numbers and would never see Lisa again. April 29th, 1988.

The dead body of 37 year old Linda and Ortega found on a dirt road in Lake Elznor. Linda's found the naked, had been mutilated, and have been dead for at least three days. Her autopsy found high levels of alcohol and cocaine and her blood. Again, Bill suspected, never convicted.

These are those three numbers, by the way, would match three on his license plate though. From the witness earlier, about nine months later, January of 1989, sex worker named Ron DeJetmore, victim of a violent attack she was lucky to survive. Bill definitely guilty of this. he'll later be convicted. Bill was cruising down Main Street in Lake Ellsnor in Bonnie's station wagon when he saw

Ronda. Bonnie was a local, again, real estate agent. Her vehicle easily recognized around town. He picked up Ronda Jettmore in it, offered her 20 bucks for sex, went to a vacant house town in the street that had no lights. When Ronda held out her hand for payment, Bill hands her a single dollar because he's a piece of shit. When Rhonda tries to protest, Bill attacks her, starts to strangle her.

Rhonda manages to fight him off, run away. Two of her friends happen to be driving by when she runs out of the vacant house. One of them shoots at Bill, when he tries to chase her, good on them, hail Nimrod. Then as he ran to his vehicle and to drive off, they continue to shoot, but no one hits him.

That's a bummer. The police never contact Bill about his incident. Despite Rhonda making a report to a sheriff's deputy and identifying the vehicle. So fucked up, right? The complaints of sex workers historically not taken very seriously, unfortunately. Rhonda said the man who wore metal glasses

and had an also wore a belt buckle that said bill. This combined with Lisa Lasex friend Connie getting those three digits off bills license plate, you know, could have been enough to locate catch him. Excuse me, you know, convicted for attempted murder and at least one murder. Few weeks later, local sex workers will tell the Riverside Sheriff's Office that Rhonda was also the best friend of a recent murder victim and likely the last person to see that woman alive. Deputies were instructed to direct her to call the sheriff's station, like Elznor, for a phone interview.

It was at the end of her interview that she described how she was attacked a couple weeks earlier. She thought the assailant could be the person who killed her friend, the deputy conducting the interview, put her report into two paragraphs at the end of a two-page report and consider and consider Ronda statement quote off the subject. Why? January 17, 1989, body of Diane May, Talavera found on the beach of Lake Elzenore. Lake Elzenore cities park specifically. She was found by a man hitting golf balls around 7.30 a.m. Diane last seen a bar called the wreck the night before it 1.am. She went by the name Linda Vargas and 18 other aliases. She was either 37 or 42 her records differ.

Footprints found in the scene show that Diane struggled with her killer. Her clothing was pulled up over her head and her head was buried in the sand like pushed down into the sand. Her pants pulled down around her ankles. She died of strangulation, also received two broken ribs and a broken sternum during the attack. Like many other early cases, Bill suspected but not convicted for this murder later. Bill and Bonnie officially end their relationship in June of 1989 for undisclosed reasons. The eternal fire of these twin flames extinguished somehow. Around that same time, Bill purchased a new 1989 Gray Mitsubishi van added the vanity plate Bill Suf one. Super smart. First serial killer.

Get a vanity plate for your murder van. Actually, not the first time we've seen this genius move. Weird detail. Some sources say he'd like to offer married women rides in his van. Strangely, he would specifically seek out married women. Maybe it was a bigger ego boost to try and seduce married women than it was single women or something. I don't know. While now living at the Morro apartment complex in like Elznor, Bill would sometimes pretend to be a police officer or security guard, trying to make women in the area. Think he's trusty. Trustworthy dude, safe, big deal, cool guy. Bill also, and how fucked up is this, talk some of the women living in the complex

and letting him babysit for them. One male neighbor said about Bill as quoted by authors Kieran's Kieran's in St. Pierre, I felt relieved that he was looking out for my wife and kids. Oh my God. He would warn me about all the bad people in town, about the drugs and the thieves and worse. Another woman said, he was always offering to babysit and was really careful and good with them.

My oldest girl would crawl to him, the minute he came in and she called him, Unky Bill. Struck me as odd that a single man would do that, but he told me his baby had died and I just assumed he met by crib death or that it was still born. Oh my God. Well, my kids were little.

If some single guy would have kept offering the baby said, not a fucking chance in hell. There was a chance in hell that any single guy was gonna babysit my kids. Yes, women do horrible things to kids, you know, as well, but statistically not fucking nearly as often as dudes, like not even close. Amongst people convicted of committing sexual crimes against children, depending on what data set you're looking at, you will find that between 95 and 99% of them are dudes, are cockwalkers.

Bill would even occasionally babysit for local sex worker named Darla Ferguson, who will be one of his victims. June 28th, 1989, same month, Bill and Bonnie break up. Kimberly Little's dead body is found near Cottonwood Canyon in Lake Elzenore. There's a day after her 28th birthday. Bill had actually tried to start a relationship with Kimberly, but she was not interested. Told Bill she had a boyfriend, and it seems that Bill's response to this rejection was

to rape and strangle her. Then leave her body in a desolate area covered by a bath towel after dressing her body and want to his t-shirts Also exposed one of Kimberly's arms to reveal her needle tracks Expose the arms of nearly all his future victims in this way one of his signature moves Right like you somehow proving that these fucking junkies deserve whatever they got moving that these fucking junkies deserve whatever they got. Out of town papers picked up on the case after Kimberly's murder, they connected her killing to some of the other recent killings of sex workers that I just went over. The press now nicknames the possible serial killer responsible for these crimes as the

Riverside prostitute killer or the Lake Ells and or killer. After murdering Kimberly bill next tries to date a woman named Joanne who had been court ordered for some weak-endered duty. Weekendered duty allowed people to do work release instead of paying to fine or serving jail time. And part of Bill's current duties with the county now was supervising these weak-enders, which is insane. He's working for the county in a law enforcement adjacent manner.

No one's figured out he had served a decade in prison recently for killing his baby daughter and also uh... no one aware that he's no longer meeting with his parole officer bill offer to drive joanne home every day he uh... told her he was divorced because he caught his wife cheating and that is ex-girlfriend recently thrown him out of her house joanne later recalled quote he said all he has been is hurt by women. I wonder if he counted his infant daughter, you know, that he beat to death in that assessment. Like what was her constant crime?

Part of the hurt that women caused him. Joanne got a job at a local circle. K can be in his store bill started showing up during her shifts, helping her stock products claiming he was a security guard, even put up posters, presenting himself as a security guard. I don't know what he means by that. The source doesn't really make it clear.

Oh, which I can see one of those posters. The way the info is conveyed in the source, it makes it seem like he was putting up posters of himself announcing that he's a security guard. I doubt he was doing. I mean, maybe that's fucking weird. Funny if he actually did that. It makes me pictures the kind of pictures of the kind of posters I had in my bedroom wall as a kid of like my favorite basketball players, right?

Carl Malone, Michael Jordan, or posters in my favorite wrestlers like the Ultimate Warrior. Pretty funny to be to imagine those same posters, like that style of random security guards. Right? Does this lineup of posters, you know, ones like fucking Carl Malone, it's fucking viciously dunking on some dude. Next one's Michael Jordan tongue out mid flight after jumping from the freezer line to dunk. And he got the ultimate warrior fucking roided out flexing his massive biceps. And then there's a chubby goofy looking dead odd my dead eyed motherfucker, you know,

Bill stuff security guard holding a tajor in one hand, maybe a thumbs up in the other hand. Creepy Bill also met with Joanne's mother to try and convince her to have Joanne date him which is super weird. She knew her daughter had no feelings for Bill. He's about to turn 39 and he's doing that. You really are fucking pathetic. Don't do that by the way.

Anybody listening? If someone doesn't want to date you, don't like go to their mom. Like, hey, can you try and like, you know, just let her know that I'm a fucking cool guy? That's so weird. That's so sad. Bill was persistent, but eventually, you know, he moves on, leaves Joanne alone. I believe was she. When she later found out who he really was. November 11, 1989, the dead body of 36 year old Judy Lynn Angel turns up near to mescal can in Road, Northwest of Lake Elznor. Judy found with no clothing gashes on her hands

that were thought to be defensive wounds. She suffered blows to her face. One blow so serious, it was, you know, it caved her head in. She was badly beaten. Estimated that she had died within a day of the discovery of her body. Judy's cause of death blow to the head with a blunt instrument.

Police initially thought she had been shot in the head. She had such a large wound between her eyes. My God. Judy and other suspected but unconferring victim. Just a month later, Bill kills again. For sure, this next victim, the first of the final 12 murders, Bill will be tried for. Previous victim, Kimberly first of the final 12 murders bill will be tried for a previous victim, Kimberly Little being the 13th conviction or you know, 13th murder, he's tried for December

13th, 19th, the body of 23 year old Christina, known as Tina leal found on a dirt road in the quail valley area of Riverside County, found by a couple looking at property sites. Tina identified by her tattoos. She had not been reported missing because her family lost saw her on the evening of December 12th or since her family lost seeing her then. When investigator came to identify her body, they discovered Bill's most brutal crime scene yet. Tina had been redressed after death in men's clothing. Her clothing was missing. She was wearing blue jeans, gym socks, a muscle shirt with a map of King's Canyon National Park on it. Right?

The very same type of shirt, well, the exact shirt actually that Bill had bought when he traveled there with Bonnie, right? As I got that shirt as a souvenir, Tina's now wearing this. Her arms tucked inside the shirt. Tina was beaten so badly she was found, quote, bleeding from all facial orifices. She only weighed 86 pounds, was intoxicated at the time of her death. Vescares wonder why the killer felt the need to attack her so viciously. Tina had a rope burn on her neck, her cause of death,

the combination of ligature strangulation, four stab wounds to the center of her chest, which were not discovered until the autopsy. And now for some especially brutal details. After her death, her killer cut off her clitoris and her left nipple and stabbed her vagina multiple times, savage attack. Then after death inserted a large 95 watt light bulb into her vagina. It was found fully inside of her and still intact, which means she must have spent quite a

bit of time with her dead body to get that day without breaking it. So why the fuck would he do that? Pubic hairs, fibers removed from Tina's body. They would be matched to hair and fibers found at the Kimberly Little crime scene. As mentioned earlier, Bill murdered an acquaintance. He occasionally, baby sat for a 23 year old Darla Ferguson and her body will be found next. January 18, 1990, woman's body found among found among some trees near a dirt road south of Canyon Lake in Cottonwood Canyon Mother and Son were out looking for firewood when they found her the boy told his mommy saw some legs in the bushes

She backed up saw the body. They leave called the authorities Darla Jane Ferguson publicly identified about a week later Lasting alive 11 a.m January 17th. Bill had strangled her with his hands or some kind of soft material. The strangulation so severe, Darla almost completely bit off her tongue. Darla also had ligature marks on her wrists. He then covered the top half her body with a trash bag. According to investigators, he did this as if to emphasize his opinion of her as a piece of garbage.

She was found about a mile from the Kimberly Little crime scene. Investigators also found tire tracks in the scene that were matched to other tracks at other crime scenes in the area where bodies of sex workers have been found. Bill will kill another woman less than a month later. February 8, 1990, the body of 35-year-old Carol Lynn Miller found in a grapefruit orchard in Riverside County. Carol has been missing since January. She died from multiple stab wounds to the chest and his fixation.

This guy fucking loved to strangle and stab. He wanted to be up close and personal with these women when they died. Feel, watch the life, leave their bodies, also inflict so much brutality upon them while they died. Carol also had a wound near her right nipple. Shoeba cares found on her body that matched pubic hair found at other crime scenes. This dude's not even trying to hide forensic evidence, not at all. Around this time, Bill also started dating a teenager named Cheryl, his new twin flame,

who worked at the Circle K, where his former love interest Joanne still worked. Bill is forty years old and he's uh... dating a team so that's you know it's fucking great even the non-illegal stuff he does is so creepy uh... sharel had moved out of her family home was living with the store manager bill started to know is still visiting the store almost daily garyl uh... sharel excuse me was described as both extremely naive and

slow she will say she was swept off her feet by bill Cheryl was described as both extremely naive and slow. She will say she was swept off her feet by Bill. Oh boy. Bill was living in an apartment in Lake Ells North this time where he had another teen girl living with him, Christina Seager. She'd been kicked out of her house, forgetting pregnant. Christina will later recall Bill frequently ranting against sex workers. Despite seeming to have such high morals when he first let Christina move in, Bill once snuck into the bathroom while Christina was taking

a shower, took some photos of her when she stepped out. She tore the photos up, threw them away, Bill acted like he was just playing a joke. It's just a silly joke. It's just a funny joke. Just sneaking in, taking nude pics of some teenager crashing with you, well, they stepped out of the shower. You know, okay, now I have to admit that Pat say, Jack Sun had at least two redeeming qualities. He made a mean bowl of jelly and a pretty wonderful endearing sense of humor. Christina will claim she'd never had any romantic relationship with Bill and that she soon invited her boyfriend to move in with them and the three of them would live together for a while. March 17th, 1990. Bill marries his teenage girlfriend,

Cheryl, who also may have been intellectually disabled. And Las Vegas after just one month of dating. One can only imagine the horrors she was subjected to on her wedding night. Christine and her boyfriend will move out a week later, left the newlyweds and enjoy each other. Right before they left, they overheard a heated argument, uh, leave the bedroom with a red mark on her face. Cheryl told them Bill is slafter, right? Same old shit. Soon after this bill is kicked out of his

apartment for failing to pay rent. Sounds like Bill, blown his money on sex workers, uh, that he also often kills. Uh, now the couple, moving with Cheryl's parents and Rehelso in the adjacent San Bernardino County. Cheryl's mom thought Bill was quote, all right, but very temperamental. And she didn't understand why he wanted to marry her young daughter. I feel like Cheryl's mom may have also been intellectually disabled. What do you mean? You didn't understand why he wanted to marry your young daughter.

He wanted to do that for the same reason I imagine a lot of if not most older men marry teenagers. Because they know that women a lot closer to their ages with more life experience and fully developed fucking brains will see through their bullshit and now how fucked up they are. He wanted someone to control, right? He wanted a warm female body to sexually use how he wished who had not learned yet

what healthy boundaries are or what her sexual rights are Fuck me if my fucking teenage daughter brought home a 40-year-old God would be hard to not immediately violently assault him Also, what the fuck is going on with Cheryl's dad or stepdad? Why are they allowing this? Bill of promise he would not marry Cheryl until she finished high school Also promise he's gonna pay for a big wedding. He will do neither Bill did often borrow gas money from Cheryl's parents. What?

Even without the abuse and killing, he's just such a ski-be-loser. And of course, he does not pay them back. Bill, uh, controlling of Cheryl, uh-huh, verbally abusive, in addition to hitting her. No surprises. He would tell her shit like she was too fat, never did anything right. Lee for hours late at night, claim he was visiting friends or teaching earthquake preparedness classes as part of his work with the county while he's out, you know, with sex workers. Cheryl's parents came to dislike Bill so much they kicked a couple out of their house in November of 1990. And now the couple moves into a different apartment complex in realtor.

Bill will wait several months before he kills again. And then once he does kill again, he'll go on a terror and kill three and three months. November 6, 1990, the body of 33 year old Cheryl Coker found next to a dumpster, excuse me, in an industrial complex in Riverside. An employee was looking for a wood palette near the dumpster enclosure when he found her. Thought he saw a mannequin's foot in a pile of debris when he touched it, the foot was soft. Now I realized obviously this, the woman, looked like the woman's throat had been cut and one of her breasts was again gone.

Cheryl was found naked lying on her back, buried under a pile of branches and gardening trash, overflowing from the dumpster enclosure. The wound on her throat was so deep, it looked like her throat had been cut, but actually it was caused by strangulation with the rope. Cheryl also had bruises other places on her neck. The killer made sure to pose her that she had one arm out face up, palm up, just showcasing the needle marks. Cheryl first victim found in the city of Riverside. Two Riverside PD homicide detectives independently decided to check out the scene. Christine Kieres, co-author of our main source today, and Mike Hurn. The detectives noticed a used condom near the victim's feet. A vice detective at the scene suspected that the victim

was Cheryl Coker. She had been reported missing three days earlier. Cheryl's friends were worried because she had never disappeared before. They cleaned this Cheryl and her husband got into a violent argument before she left. A detective then found Cheryl's breast about 50 feet away on a sandy plateau. The killer had removed it and then just fucking through it, quote, like a frisbee, according to one source. According to authors, Kieres and St. Pierre, Cheryl killed November 4, Bill left to use condom at the crime scene. He had blood in his semen because he had an STI at the time. Something I'm sure he brought home and infected his wife with and then probably blamed

her for that and beater. Bill stepped out, died around the time of Cheryl's murder. Bill attended the funeral but did not linger to spend time with the family. He told them they had to leave because Cheryl was pregnant. Did I mention the Cheryl was pregnant? Oh yeah. Bill's gonna be a daddy again. What great news?

Hopefully, third time the charm and he changes up his parenting style to include a slightly gentler method of discipline other than punch his torture and murder. Bill and Cheryl still experiencing, of course, a lot of marital problems. The main one was that Bill was a psychopath. Also, Bill was flirting with a bunch of women

at their department complex while the same time being very controlling of sharyl bill was now forbidden sharyl to wear makeup or even curse he picked a clothing she wore not allowing her to wear red at all because he said it quote reminded him of all the bloody witness when he worked that pediatric work bill continued to separate late at night using the excuse of teaching earthquake preparedness classes.

Another one of his strange activities was given away random women's clothing, jewelry, and purses to share on his female acquaintances, not suspicious at all. They didn't know this clothing was stolen from murder victims. Bill will tell Cheryl that he either found the clothing or that a coworker gave it to him. Bill wasn't just taking clothes from victims. He was also collecting little trophies. He would keep his victims drivers licenses and random papers found in their

purses. He would store jewelry and purses taken from victims and cardboard boxes and leave those at the workstation in the warehouse. Sometimes officers would come to his workstation, choose his phone, ask for his help, and they would stand just a few feet from evidence. They were looking for to find the killer they were stay just a few feet from evidence they were looking for to find the killer they were tracking. Right. He's loving this little sick game. He's playing. December 21st, 1990, the dead body of 27 year old Susan Sternfield found that a dumpster enclosure in a business slash industrial complex in the northeast end of Riverside.

She was found a mile from the Cheryl Koch or crime scene. Trucker found the body when he was making a delivery. He saw legs inside the metal enclosure, got out to take a look, saw the dead body. Detectives Christine Kieres, Mark Boyer now, assigned to work this case because she and Boyer were also the Cheryl Coker crime scene. They noticed some distinct similarities. The victim was found nude, have been strangled. Her clothing, not found in the scene. She was, quote, deliberately posed and they'd lured position, wedged on her back between an inner and outer wall,

knees pushed up and legs splaid open to expose her genitals. Her arm was pulled to the side to expose needle marks on her inner arm as if, Chris Kier speculated, the killer were advertising to the police that the victim was just a junkie whore and deserving of her fate. The victim had dry blood coming from her right ear, more blood coming on a showed up on an eyelid. Based on her liver temperature, she had been dead two days or longer. The detectives found no useful evidence inside the dumpster enclosure. There were no signs of a struggle, which meant the victim either knew her

attacker or trusted him or was incapacitated and incapable of fighting back. Some abrasions on her body were most likely caused by the killer dragging her and posing her after death. She did have a bruise on one side of her neck which pointed to strangulation. Vice detective brought books containing pictures of Riverside sex workers and determined that the body matched a picture of Susan Sternfield and then she was officially identified by her fingerprints. December 24th, Susan's autopsy, we confirmed she died of manual strangulation. According to Kieres and St. Pierre, structures deep inside

the neck were crushed and hemorrhaged, which required a large amount of pressure on the part of the assailant. Detective Kieres mentioned the similarities in the two cases to some of her co-workers, a patrol officer, noted their friend at the Riverside Sheriff's office, told him they were working on a couple recent murders involving sex workers as well. Cures advised her lieutenant about the four recent sex worker homicides in Riverside County. She was assigned to contact the sheriff's office to compare notes and was then assigned to work all current and future murders involving sex workers in their jurisdiction. They didn't have a task force yet officially, but heading in that direction for sure.

January 7, 1991, Detective Cures meets with Detective Robert Creed from the Riverside Sheriff's Office, the County Sheriff's Office. She now learned that the RSO was working eight sex worker homicides from the past few years. Their most recent victim was Carol Miller, found on February 8th, 1990. Still not enough evidence to conclusively determine the serial killer was involved in these murders. The suggestion that a serial killer was responsible was actually rebuffed by

Christine Superior's initially. Still, detectives, cures and creed request the criminalists at the State Department of Justice Crime Lab to compare trace evidence to see if the victims are linked. RSO had also reached out to Washington to see if the victims might be connected to the green river killer up there Early suck subject Gary clean wean Ridgeway still about a decade away from being caught Excuse me January Excuse me January 19, 1991 the body of 42-year-old Kathleen Leslie Puckett found near a mayor major freeway Seven miles north of Lake Elzanoor, and an illegal

dump site off a dirt road. Bob Creed from the RSO responded to this crime scene. Kathleen had needle track marks on the backs of her hands. She had a bruise on her forehead and post mortem abrasions on her heels and buttocks, likely caused by her body, mean dragged. Cause of death, not obvious. Investigators noticed that a tire track was found near her body. An autopsy soon determined Kathleen died from strangulation and his fixia. The resigns of manual strangulation

and a sock of and stuff into her mouth blocking her airway. Kathleen went by the name's Kathleen Maline and Carol Kathleen Swenson. Over the past few years, Kathleen had been charged with prostitution, possessing a hypodermic needle and being under the influence of a controlled substance. She normally did sex work in the University Avenue area, despite being a known drug

user, had no drugs or alcohol in her system. Kathleen, seen at her sister's home in Riverside on January 18th, told her sister she was going to find a ride to go visit her kids and with her and she was last seen on University Ave about 10.30 pm. January 19, 1991. Now the Riverside Police Department decides to mount a major effort to find whoever's killing these women. Detective Kiers recommends that the RPD conduct surveillance on University Ave, the primary sex worker hang out in the area, detectives would use unmarked vehicles and wear plain

clothes to observe sex work activity. Christine approached sex workers told them that she was a homicide detective, needed their help with the investigation, many seemed willing to provide information about suspicious clients and accepted her card to call her if they saw or heard anything else. This first stakeout will last for two weeks, but no leads will pan out from it. Around this time, the State Department of Justice completes a profile, which analyzed what the Tina Leal case revealed about the suspect. The profile stated that the killer was a high, has, excuse me, a high degree of self-control

and a willingness to take the required time to perform the mutilations. The Tina Leal murder was methodical, time-consuming, painstaking, and a precise exercise in post-mortem mutilation and the insertion of a foreign object. It was done not only to humiliate and degrade the victim, but also to shock and offend those individuals who would discover the body.

Okay, I did not think of that angle with the label. Might not have been done to satisfy any of Bill's sexual urges, it was done, you know, primarily to fuck with, to horrify whoever found the body. He just loved to hurt whoever he could. Would he have still done this type of shit, if you know, Pats A. Jack would have stuck around. Was it inevitable? Or did his dad abandon that family just break something inside of him?

How much this blood's on your hands, Pats A. Jack? March 2, 1991. State Department of Justice criminalist Steve Skakowski announces the results of his comparison between the show cocker and Susan Sternfield crime scenes. There were similarities and carpet fibers and paint chips found on the bodies and he had a potential tire match from the cocker crime scene to the Kathleen Puckett crime scene. March 4, 1991 detective Bob Crete and Detective John Davis are designated to lead a task force to catch the Riverside County prostitute killer. So the task force is formed.

Why not Detective Christine Kears that though? She was the one spearhead in the shit, wasn't she? Moosefeeta thinks some bullshit may have went on. Or she wasn't a lead on this task force because the Riverside County Sheriff's Office had assembled the task force and Kears worked for the Riverside City Police Department. Yeah, you know, maybe that at least there is a task force now. Detective Kieres will be a big part of it. March 27, 1991 Department of Justice, criminalist Steve Skakowski reports that trace evidence

and tire tracks linked more cases together. Darla Ferguson, Tina Leal, Carol Miller, Cheryl Cocher, Susan Sternfield, and Kathleen Puckett. Same tire tracks, found at these crime scenes. April 17, 1991, detector from St. Croix, Wisconsin, calls Riverside Sheriff's Office to report that an inmate there had info about Carol Miller's death. Some sheriff's office task force members now fly out to Wisconsin. They failed to notify the Riverside Police Department about the development until April 22nd, at which point Detective Kieres flies out to join them. The inmate was named Alex.

He was in jail for a felony weapons charge and was facing two eight year enhancements to a sentence. And he was hoping that by helping out the investigators, you know, maybe they could knock some time off of that sentence. He knew Carol Miller by the name Carol Hansen. The two have been arrested for burglary together back in 1988. He learned about her murder and other murders while he was drinking with Carol's ex-husband weeks earlier, claimed that there were actually two killers, but he only knew one. He told investigators that Carol's ex-husband was a long haul trucker and would have been

able to commit their murders in Riverside County. And he had a history of physically abusing Carol. Alex had such specific knowledge about the murders and crime scene that the police thought he was the second killer. Alex told the police that appealed, half-eaten grapefruit, have been found in the orchard beside Carol's body, only the killer, law enforcement in the coroner's office, knew that because the records had been sealed. The task force obtained a warrant and Carol's ex-husband was arrested now April 25th.

Investigators asked him how he would know about the grapefruit if he wasn't the killer. He explained that he called the coroner's office, identified himself, then asked for info, and someone mailed him a copy of the report. Whoops, sorry about that. And then he had talked to Alex about all of this shit at the bar.

So damn it, all the details Alex knew were found in the report. He was full of shit. Carol's ex-husband, Pasta polygraph Alex failed one and now he'll receive an extra 10 years. Added to a sense for trying to frame Carol's ex-husband over some bullshit in an attempt to reduce the sense, holy backfire. April 27, 1991, 24 year old Cherie Michelle Pesour is found dead outside the concourse family bowling center in Riverside. Seemed like the killer had read a newspaper article about a trip to Wisconsin by investigators and the next day reacted by leaving a body in a very public place.

I would have thought Bill would have been relieved to think investigators were barking up the wrong tree, but I guess that didn't fit into his little game like he wanted, he didn't stroke his ego the way he wanted. Sheree was found completely naked with no purse, no ID. She was placed on her back in a flower bed on the back wall of the bowling alley. Arms are either side or palms, you know, face up to expose needle marks on her arms. She had a few scrapes on her backside and a small bruise otherwise no injuries. There were shoe prints on the ground, some from the killer, others from a crowd of 40 or so people who gathered outside the mullin' alley to check out the body.

Some automatic sprinklers had washed away evidence, but investigators still found tire tracks of the scene, and seeming from two men was found inside Sheree's body. The killer had not mutilated the corpse as he had in other cases, probably because it was such a public place. The pathologist listed the cause of death as undetermined because there was such a little trauma. Sherry Pesur, almost completely death because her mom contracted Rubella during pregnancy. She wore hearing aids and communicated through sign language and was recognized by a local police officer. She was well liked.

She was a loving, kind person, no known enemies. Detectives looked for a suspect among her associates, but found none, which reinforced their belief that she was another victim of the serial killer. Bill Suff had a disturbing connection to Sheree. He had met Sheree's mother Joan Pasur when he was assigned weekend to her duty. Bill approached her at the county building and asked if she wanted to work with him

once they got to the warehouse. Joe, Joan thought Bill was friendly and happy to go lucky. Bill also liked to get gas at the gas station near the concourse bowling alley, which was also where he did bowl, where he participated in the bowling league with his coworkers. Man, I bet he loved going there to bowl after her body was found to hear, you know, people talking about her murder. July 4, 1991, the body of 37 year old Sherry and Latham now found in a desolate area, overlooking interstate 15 and Lake Elzenore. Sherry and Latham now found in a desolate area overlooking Interstate 15 in Lake Elzenore.

Sherry's found naked, partially decomposed, and some weeds just off grape street. Location was within eyesight of two earlier crime scenes. There was no visible trauma, but her cause of death was determined to be manual or soft strangulation. And so violent with some victims, not nearly as brutal with others. Clearly had some triggers that really set him off from time to time. Sherry was a sex worker from San Bernardino, shed a drug and prostitution charges on a record, outstanding arrest warrant at the time of her death.

During the final months of her life, she lost a significant amount of weight due to drug addiction, also died her hair because she was hiding from the police. Sherry was known for wearing bright makeup, which earned her the nickname of Rainbow. After the murder of Kathleen Puckett back in January, Sherry was one of several sex workers who spoke to the Californian, and Lake Elzenore. Sherry said she used the buddy system. We take care of each other here.

If we're gonna go off somewhere with a date, we make sure to let someone know. Sherry's boyfriend told the police that she was always cautious. She had him watch the car she got into, and normally took her clients to the same place. She disappeared on July 2nd, she was picked up by a stranger who drove off in the opposite direction she usually went. That was the last time her boyfriend saw her alive. He provided a partial description of the driver and a description of the vehicle.

The task force will do more surveillance work now based on these details for the next week. They established two dozen serious potential suspects but but Bill, stuffed not among them. Just 24 other pieces of shit who also hated women. What the task force didn't know yet was that Sherry hung out near that local circle K. And Bill, son of Sejak, likely met her there when he was hanging around the store. Sherry had scratched Bill's face and arms during the attack, and his associates noticed he looked beat up when he showed hanging around the store. Sherry had scratched bills face and arms during the attack and his associates noticed he looked beat up when he showed up to work. Bill said he got the scratch when he broke up a fight between two dudes, but could big muscular

dudes. And some woman at Kaiser hospital, he claimed he was just there for some allergy medicine or sometimes he would say back depending on who he's talking to said that when he accidentally pushed one man down, you know, it's fucking he didn't even know his own strength. You know, easily push one guy down and then the the guys wife jumped on him and scratched his face up Not the worst cover story Maybe pick allergies or back though stick with one Always amazed at how some of these guys who are so sloppy with their murders and lies take so long to get caught

There were some new developments and bills personal life this month two of Cheryl's friends had moved in with the stuff Terry and Jeremy. Cheryl met Terry at work. Terry told the Jeremy lost the job. They were considering moving out of the state to live with family. Cheryl invited them to come live with her instead and said, Terry could help her take care of the baby. July 26th, that's right. There's a baby 1991, Bridget and Suf is born. Bill's third child, Kessine, his wife, co-workers and friends, didn't know about the previous two, or at least not the truth. Bridget, nicknamed Brienne,

was a fussy baby, cried through the night. Father of the year, Bill, would become frustrated by the baby's crying, and would often get up at the middle of the night and carry her into the living room, and just leave her there until the morning. Terry and Jeremy thought he was rough with her and soon they started to notice bruises on her face.

So so much for Bill changing up his parenting style. Terry and Jeremy also felt like Cheryl didn't seem to know what to do with the baby. Bill will kill another woman, less than a month after his daughter is born, not going to slowing down. August 16, 1991, body of 27 year old Kelly Marie Hammond found in a gravel alley in Chronic, California. The Corona police thought she might be one of the serial killer victims, so they called on the task force. Detective Christine Kiers recognizes Kelly right away as a sex worker she had talked to from University of have. Kelly had recently been attacked by a man with

a fucking hammer in another incident. God, the lives these poor women lead, right? No moral judgments and having sex for money. Just pity that they encounter some of the worst biggest, most cowardly woman hating pieces, shit on the planet. Kelly was found naked. She was posed in a kneeling position that exposed her genitals. One of her hands was positioned palm up to expose her inner arm like with so many other victims. There was no obvious signs of violence on her body. Detective Kieres went back to the University of Av to find a woman named Kelly Victoria, Jewel White Cloud, who was Kelly Hammond's friend and Kelly W would claim that she had interacted with the possible killer.

Kelly W said that she and Kelly H have been working on University Av the previous night. Kelly H was intoxicated to the point that she could barely walk, also was sick with a cold. Around 10 p.m., a grave van pulled up next to them. The driver was a chubby man, about 40 light brown hair, small mustache, stubble, metal frame sunglasses. He immediately started talking about how he was mad at his dad, how he'd abandoned him, how his dad was the reason he could never watch Wheel of Fortune. Or that never happened. And instead, he quickly offered Kelly W. $20 for sex. $20 together.

That seems low for sex, doesn't it? Feels very low. Kelly W. agreed, got into the van, which had a gray interior and two captains chairs up front with a thick black book, look like a Bible in the center console. Kelly asked him to buy her some food in nearby McDonald's before the had sex. He agreed started driving there. Kelly being kicked out of the same McDonald's before for doing drugs in the bathroom. In the drive through this time, she said she emphasized her abrasive personality

and was rude to the employees. And this seemed to embarrass the driver. Once he got to the parking lot, he told her that now it wasn't fair for him to pay 20 bucks for sex since he had spent four dollars on her food and he was now only going to pay her ten dollars uh... i think you might say sixteen dollars right bill some fucked up math through doing

he's not cheap weasley fuck on top of all of his other terrible qualities color refused to accept that price also said that they could go to her house if they were gonna have sex man said he didn't want to go to her house. He wanted to have sex in his van near the University of California Riverside campus. Kelly was also starting to get creeped out by this guy now. He was starting to give off bad vibes. He was worried about what he really wanted to do.

So she tells him she's not going to do the date for 10 bucks, gets out of the van. The man after calling her some names now drives across the street to Kelly H. Kelly W calls out to Kelly H Not to get in the van with this guy because he's a fucking creep and also only gonna pay ten bucks Kelly H who is pretty hammered, right? Just smiles waves at her gets into the van and they drive off Kelly W continue working until midnight Then goes home even though Kelly H still hadn't showed back up very unusual Ninety in the next morning she goes looking for Kelly H in a field at Sixth Street in Park Ave where Kelly lived on the street in a fucking cardboard box with her boyfriend

Russell. Russell said that Kelly hadn't come home for the night. This is also sad. Kelly W now goes to detective cures to some different car lots, try and find a van that looks similar to the one she saw the suspect driving it. They know the one she got in. She thought the van was a Chevy Astro. She also worked with a police sketch artist and detective Kieres attaches the composite drawing to a flyer with Kelly's information that they now hand out. Meanwhile, Bill continues to kill.

September 13, 1991, the body of 31-year-old Catherine, or Catherine, excuse me, a net McDonald found in a developing residential area of Lake Elzenore near a railroad canyon road in Somerhill Drive. About a mile and a half from the Sherry-Latham crime scene. Catherine found naked and she had been mutilated. Police found footprints and tire tracks in the dirt near her body, like some other victims, Catherine, stabbed in the center of her chest, stabbed five times in the outer pubic area as well. Her right breast, missing again, not found at the crime scene this time.

There were no tracks to indicate that an animal had dragged it away, which meant the killer probably took it with him. Catherine's cause of death, same as many other victims, was multiple sharp object wounds and compressions of the throat. Unlike other victims, Catherine was 12 to 13 weeks pregnant when she died. She was also black, which scared more women in the area, since a recent newspaper article included info that the serial killer only targeted white women. A psychological expert now expressed the opinion that the killer was reacting to that

newspaper article. He wanted to make sure that no woman in the area, at least no woman work in the streets white, black or otherwise, was gonna feel safe. On the day Cazam's body was found, two task force members came to the county warehouse to pick up supplies. They needed to use the phone at Bill's workstation. He then watched them as they were ordered to respond to his crime scene in Lake Elzenore. Oh, he must have been so excited. Now this is the fucking, this is a crazy detail from the story. Remember I told you that you didn't want to be eating chili?

When you were listening to this episode, next day, September 14th, Bill attends the annual county employee picnic and participates again in the chili cookoff. Members of the serial killer task force attend this cookoff and eat his chili. Now, fucked up is this. Two top people involved in the case, according to our main sources authors,

believe that Bill put Catherine's missing breast into the fucking chili. This motherfucker may have actually fed some of the detectives working on his cases some of the meat from one of his victims. God, new chili ethical dilemma question. Let's say that you have a real moral problem. Let's hope that you have a real moral problem with eating chili made with a murdered woman's breast meat. But best fucking chili ever. Especially you've ever had by far. Would you still?

I'll stop. Uh, I wish I knew if he won that year with that recipe. He probably did. He won several years in a row. That might have been another one of the years he won. Oh my God. October 11, 1991, Department of Justice criminalist, face springer, called to inform the task force that the light brown and blonde hairs found on Catherine's body most likely came from the killer. Two weeks later, October 25th,

springer determines that the same type of hairs found on enough victims were able to be, you know, for him to conclude that they belong to the same serial killer. Right? Same here found on multiple bodies. As the investigators are getting closer and closer to catching their killer, Bill finally is put on law enforcement's radar, but sadly, not for something to do with sex workers. More infant abuse sends law enforcement to chat with this walking pile of shit. October 25, 1991, Bill and Cheryl's baby, Brian, is screaming and crying uncontrollably. Cheryl demands the bill drive them to the hospital. The bill tells the doctor he thinks, Brian probably has a cold or the flu. He used to work with kids a

lot. He knows the doctor initially thinks probably an ear infection. So he draws blood for further testing. And then the test results reveal that Bridget quote was suffering from such severe child abuse that she probably would have died if not hospitalized and treated that very day. Motherfucker. Brienne had severe brain damage blood clots in her brain bleeding inside her eye bruises on her head for broken, and a broken left leg. How did the doctor not immediately notice that shit before the blood test? She would diagnose with shaken baby syndrome.

Did you just find out that you hate this guy even more than you already did? I didn't think it was possible before that detail to hate him more, but I hate him more now. Like, I literally wouldn't fucking care If this guy was taking out a prison tomorrow and just taking out of the desert, where he was held down and somebody with a fucking spoon just carved out both his eyeballs. Then a bunch of fire ants poured into his eye sockets

along with some sugar to feed him so they can live in there for a while. And then God's taped over his eyes or what used to be his eyes to keep those ants inside of his head. Then his dick is cut off. The wound is cauterized, and his dick is shoved into his mouth.

Luckily it's real tiny, so he won't choke. Then his mouth is taped shut, so his dick has to stay in there. He can still breathe through his nose. Then, balls are cut off, shoved up his ass. Still not done. Nipples are cut off next. Big metal hoops are inserted into the wounds like a round of rib.

So we can't you know rip out the hoop. A chain is attached to the hoops anchor to the desert floor. And now finally, maybe like a thousand scorpions are placed all around him. I mentioned he's naked. He's naked for this. And because the chain he stuck with the scorpions and the scorpions. They're not the most venomous kind. So it's going to take a lot of stings to kill him. Like he met Liz like that for a few days.

I know that was a lot, but I really feel like if someone deserves that fate, it's him. At this time, Cheryl's friends Terry and Jeremy still living in the apartment. Everyone denies abuse and Brienne or seen any abuse when they're first questioned by the re-alto police. Bill, that fucking weasel says in his police statement, I'm not saying that Cheryl has never

shaken the baby. I've never seen her do it. Like he immediately starts trying to throw his wife in front of the bus. Bill turns around and convinces Cheryl that he thought Jeremy was probably the perpetrator because he didn't feel comfortable around him. Terry now admits that she did see Bill lose his temper with Cheryl and the baby and that she had seen him shake the baby before. Bill tells the police he had waited 41 years to have a baby and he would never hurt his

baby. He agrees to take a polygraph, it comes back inconclusive. And then the realtor police and their child welfare investigation with no charges filed. What the fuck? How could they not look into the criminal records at these fuckheads and find out if I don't know, one of them had already spent a decade in prison for beating a baby to death. Even though the technology was there in 1991 to do that, your arrest record in one state could not unfortunately be real easily accessed by law enforcement in a different state and a lot

of times it just wouldn't look. Which I guess is the person's line, you know, it's tricky to like assume that they were in these other states. I just frustrating. The subs now kicks Terry and Jeremy out. They they were frustrated. They were being blamed for the abuse, but you know, couldn't convince Cheryl. It was actually build it did it. Brienne, baby Brienne, thank God, not sent back home.

It was one good thing that comes out of this. She put up for adoption. No one knows where she ended up or if she recovered, right? From the brain damage. Hi, yeah, yeah, October 30th, 1991, the body of 35-year-old Delilah Zamora Wallace. Bill's next victim, found across the road from a park and ride close to Highway 60, east of the Riverside San Bernardino County lines. She found it 7.15 a.m. by a guy driving

to work. Delaya found fully clothed investigators and I don't think it's Delaya Delayla the way it spelled. Delaya found fully clothed investigators theorized the killer hadn't first noticed the parking lot parking right lot. Then probably panic when commuters started to show up. Delaya's right arm pulled out again, you know, palm up exposed to a show needle marks on her inner arm, indicating she was a victim of the same serial killer. This detail still had not been mentioned in the newspapers. Excuse me. She had bruising on the front of her neck, no signs of trauma. Delaya identified by her fingerprints, a resident of Riverside, and a mother to five kids. While the investigation of the park and ride lot not fruitful.

The task force learned that the shoe prints from the Catherine McDonald crime scene had been identified. And they were an athletic shoe called pro wings only sold to pay less. So the serial killer, not just a dirt bag, he's a stylish gentleman. Sorry. Bill had murdered July on October 29th in the middle of the fucking child abuse investigation into him. During one hospital visit, Cheryl questioned Bill about a denim handbag in his van. He said his boss gave it to him and he was gonna give it to her. Cheryl saw that the bag contained a wallet, a phone book, makeup, and personal papers. Pretty fucking odd things to be in there for a gift.

Unfortunately, she did not notice that the driver's license in the purse belong to D'Lia Zamora. Bill also had new scratches on his face. His roommate Terry, question about it, you know, before he gets kicked out, and he said, you know, he scratched his face on a wooden pallet at work. It's so clumsy. This fucking moron just keeps getting away with murder literally. December 23, 1991, the Sufs move into a new apartment in Colton, San Bernardino County. While packing, Bill and Cheryl got into a fight, he slapped her in the face. She told him she wanted a divorce and her brother picked her up and took her to their parents home.

Bill asked Cheryl's parents to convince her to come back and those fucking idiots told their daughter to try to work things out with the man they knew it possibly. If not, probably beat their grandchild so badly. Right? The kid who ended up with brain damage was taken away by the state it doesn't feel like there are a preposterous amount of idiots in the story okay you know maybe maybe bill just really was such a highly skilled manipulator you know these slimy cells you'll pass they can trick the best of us but my god December 4th 1991 Bill gets into a traffic accident which dented the passenger side of his murder van. Bill was at fault,

was driving without a current license, registration, or insurance, but still this does not put him on police's radar. December 23, 1991, the body of 39 year old Eleanor, O'Hada, a Cossarez found in an orange grove in Riverside. Around 120 PM detective Christine Kieres gets a phone call, requesting her to respond to the orange groves of Victoria Avenue, which was just a few blocks from her house. And she worried now that the killer was taunting her,

trying to send her a message, but put her down to hopefully just being quincenzo. A worker found the body while he was driving on a service road bordering the orange groves. Body only about 10 feet from the road. Victim line spread eagle in the middle of four of the four or a row four, excuse me, of the orange groves body only about 10 feet from the road victim line spread eagle in the middle of four of the four or a row four excuse me of the orange groves she was naked but a black coat was covering her face her right breast again gone cut off in the same manner as other victims and she had a stab wound to the center of her chest there were shoe prints and tire tracks from two types

of tires around her body the severed breast was found two rows over with no footprints indicating the killer had thrown it. No chili cook off to prep for this time, I guess, or maybe he saved some meat from the last breast to use for his next batch of award-winning chili. When the coat was removed from the victim detective Kieres recognized her as Eleanor Casares, a woman she had befriended during the investigation. Eleanor's face had been badly beaten. Eleanor's sister told a woman she had befriended during the investigation. Eleanor's face had been badly beaten. Eleanor's sister told Christine that she had last talked to her sister about 11 11 30 a.m. Eleanor had asked about her with 10 bucks. Said she would go to work around 7 p.m. We'll return them with the money then. She told Eleanor she would

loan her the money, but she would have to come get it. Eleanor said she'd get a ride, but then never showed up. In the past, Eleanor told her sisters, she had a feeling she knew who the killer was and she was quote, working on it. Damn it. Eleanor's cause of death, manual strangulation and a stab wound to the heart. Also had abrasions on her mouth, face, neck, and wrists

and contusions on her shoulder, chest, and hip. Those were defensive wounds. December 23, Bill's wife Cheryl wakes up between 12.45 and 1 pm because she worked a late shift the night before. Bill was off work for Christmas. Yeah, these two are back together. Good job, Cheryl's parents.

Cheryl noticed that Bill had even more scratches. So many scratches lately on his face. And he claimed one of their cats did it. Mm-hmm. Cheryl had given Bill a new pair of converse two weeks before the murder. And instead of pro wings, like the previous crime scenes, Converse shoe prints found at this new crime scene.

Bill had also purchased two new uneroyal tires for his van, but the other two tires still Yokohama brand during the investigation and task force received news that the tire tracks from the McDonald crime scene were Yokohama tires. Christmas day 1991 now, a apartment manager Rebecca Robb, hosts a party in her apartment, which Bill and Cheryl attend. The group decides to watch a Christmas movie. Signed to the lamps. That is what they watch. Bill randomly said that girl was stupid, forgetting the van and everyone in present thought it was strange for him to say that, but didn't make too much of it of the time at the time. As a fan of that movie, that girl was stupid,

forgetting the van. I'm guessing millions of people had that same thought, but I guess the way he said it struck him as weird. January 8, 1992, local paper dedicates a front page article to the murders, featured an statement from Riverside Police Chief, Linford L. Sonny Richardson, sunny stated that Riverside shouldn't add the to the current reward fund because it would appear desperate and lessen the importance of other murder investigations. Detective Kieres now thought the killer might take that as an insult to his intelligence and could react by killing another victim. Christine believed they could catch him if they sent out police units with her flyer,

you know, the flyer that she had done up of, you know, the composite drawing of his face. And now operation, a apprehension is launched and will run for up to two weeks. The way this operation worked was that any vehicle seen picking up a sex worker would be followed and stopped away from university F. If the driver did not resemble the composite sketch, he would be released. And this operation, thankfully, will be successful.

Between eight and 10 PM, January 9th, 1992, Bill Suff goes to a dance club in downtown Riverside to visit his brother. Another one of his brothers also there. The three speak for about 45 minutes. He tells them another body but found here his house, complaints about sex workers, says he had to go to the hospital and Riverside to pick up some algae meds. But he actually goes to university F looking for a new victim. He speaks to a woman named Roberta first, but she tells him, she's going home and he moves on to approach another woman. Round 945, motorcycle cop, Frank

Orda is driving towards University Ab after doing some patrols. At the intersection of Victoria Avenue, he sees a young woman walk up to a gray van with a white male driver. He'd seen the flyer, he's immediately suspicious. Orda circles the block to see if the driver picked up the girl, but she noticed him when he drove past and walked away from the van. Order now goes further down the road. Does it you turn so he'll be in the right lane to follow the van when the driver perhaps tries to pick up somebody else? The driver who saw the cop behind him

turns right at a red light without coming to a full stop which now gives order a reason to pull him over. He notices the driver has brown hair, heavy set, has stubble, wearing metal frame glasses, just like the description. Name on his license William Lester Suff. His photo resembled a composite drawing. His original address listed in Lake Elzenore, but it was crossed off.

There were two more addresses on the back, one in Rialto, also crossed off, current one in Colton. Orda also noticed a California highway patrol cap on his center console. William South told Orda he didn't have his registration with him. When Orda runs his plate, he learns that Suffs license was suspended and his registration tags belong to a different vehicle. So this flucker looking more and more suspicious by the second.

Now he can can impound the vehicle, which will give the police time to search for evidence. Order radios about his stop soon, two corpals from Operation Apprehension arrive, Don Talley and Dwayne Beckman. William Suffigree to have photos of himself and his van taken, but he complained he was cold, asked to get a jacket, order offered to get it for him. Corporal Talley starts searching the driver's side of the van, which was out of view of Suff and Corporal Tally starts searching the driver side of the van, which was out of view of Suff and Corporal Beckman. Inside the van he finds pieces of natural fiber rope, thick black schedule book, and a

kitchen knife tucked inside a metal track of the driver's seat. Position in such a way that one could easily grab the handle. Tally sees blood on the blade. Under the seat he finds a 357 revolver. Tally holds up the weapon where order could see it. Now orders Beckman to handcuff Bill. Or to thought that Bill might have might have asked for his coat as a cover to grab the revolver. Tally, who is still out of self's view with this point, now comes towards them and asks, you know what this is about, don't you? Bill nodded and then his knees buckle and he

drops to the ground. When Tally holds up the revolver, Bill seems relieved. Tells officers, it's actually just a pellet gun. And it was a pellet gun, but his reaction was highly suspicious. Bill acted very defeated. Like a guy who knew he'd just been caught for something serious. Beckman and Tally continued searching and found a parole ID card. Bill said he was on parole in Texas for 10 years for assault. Or he had been in, yeah, on, yeah, in parole in Texas for 10 years for insult said he injured someone who's having sex with his wife

Finally a lie that now might actually catch up with his fucker on one wall and Stephen of the van is a dry red stain looks like blood This idiot never even bothered to clean out his murder van a Request was now sent out for a police unit with a better camera to respond to the scene and detective Christine Kieres from the task force It's called in. Christine when she gets there notices the bill's 1989 Mitsubishi van looks a lot like a Chevy Astro. She checked out the interior, saw that red stain, she actually thought it might be a sauce, maybe chili.

Still, she knew this was the serial killer's vehicle. The van also had different tire brands. Same brands found the Kazares and McDonald's crime scenes. Christine found even more evidence inside the van. She knew that gray, red, white, blue, gold, green, and natural rope fibers found on some of the victims. The van had gray carpet and a poultry. There was a blue and red sleeping bag with white stuffing poking out, a gold pillow,

a colorful afghan, a green blanket, and a rope in the van. It's all pointing towards him being a murder. She also saw the schedule book, which looked like a Bible. Everything lining up with the crime scene evidence and Kelly White Clouds statement about the suspect detective Kieres tells Bill that she needs to ask some questions down to the police station. Bill is taken to RPD headquarters where he agrees to do an interview. She calls in criminalist Steve to Steve, Steve Sikovsky. Oh, Polish name still giving. Asked him to go to the impound warehouse. He determined that the van belonged to the Riverside serial killer.

Christine started off Bill's interview by asking about his background. He said his name was Bill Lee Suff. So even lies about his middle name. His first name was just, you know, just Bill. His family called it William, but it's just Bill. Okay, cool. We'll file that under who gives a shit he claimed that sex workers had approached him without his permission and that he had never paid them he had no reason to because he had a wife gosh dang he agrees to share samples of a saliva blood

and hair which is weird what's he thinking there bill said he had been a medical corpsman in the Air Force had worked in the pediatric ward of a hospital that he'd earned a BA in sociology and social work you know left out the part about earning that degree in prison. He only spent a week and a half in prison for beating up a man, you know, who he caught having an affair with his first wife. He discussed his relationship with Bonnie, how he was a member of the first Southern Baptist Church, and like, Elznor, so he couldn't have done it.

It's impossible for someone who's a member of that church to commit these crimes. Kieres and St. Pierre wrote about the interview. As Chris listened, she realized he was steadily building a portrait of himself as a kind, caring, religious person who loved children, medicine, and his fellow man. At one point in the interview, Christine Aspill, did you think you were doing a service to the community by cleaning up these sluts out there in the boulevard and building quickly and murder was wrong? Oh, he's such a good boy. by cleaning up these sluts out there in the boulevard and bill quickly as a murder is wrong

always such a good boy when asked about the knife bill said he uses a slice of the uh... he used it to slice some fat off of some ham and some other stuff he bought from the store and he claimed he cut his finger couple months ago that that's probably source of blood he agreed let the police searches apartment but as it share will be present share will ask to a bill's brothers come over and help all three of them would help the police search the house for evidence against bill which is a apartment, but as it Cheryl be present, Cheryl asks to a bill's brothers to come over and help.

All three of them would help the police search the house for evidence against Bill. Does he actually still think he might get away with everything? I mean, he's been given Cheryl's clothes, Cheryl clothes that have been taken from victims. Christine has Cheryl, his twin flame, now brought to the station and she talks about all these gifts she's been receiving from Bill. Bill said he got through from yard sales and swap meets. Bill's real criminal record is now faxed to the station, which proves he had lied during the interview. Bill admits to line and Christine confronts him.

She now tells Bill they knew he was at the orange groves where Eleanor Cassaris' remains were found, because his tire tracks were found there. Bill admits he was there, but he was just picking some oranges, you know, just stealing a couple oranges. Christine told him that there was something else in the groves, asked him what it was, and Bill was like, yeah, there was a dead body there. Okay, yeah, I didn't see a dead body. He claims that he saw the body, walked around it, had no idea who put the woman there. Bill suggested that he wanted a lawyer now saying, I better get a lawyer, because you think I did it and I didn't. But then they keep talking. And he adds that he wants to clear some things up. He says, I want to make sure you end up knowing I didn't

kill her. I took the clothes because they were lying near by her. And that's it. Who the fuck does that? Who the fuck? That was upon a freshly dead body. And there's some clothes next. You know, I mean, I want a great opportunity to get my wife some new clothes. I mean, I won't say anything about the body. Just leave the body there. You know, that that that couldn't possibly get me in trouble to take her clothes. Bill was asked about the bloody knife.

Again, the one found in his van, and now he says, okay, yeah, I did find it on the ground by the body. When press further, he admitted, okay, yeah, the knife was sticking out of her chest in the middle of her chest. And Christine asked him, well, what did you do with it? And he says, okay, yeah, the knife was sticking out of her chest in the middle of her chest. And Christine asked him, well, what did you do with it? And he says, I pulled it out. You know, again, as one does, if you see a knife

sticking out of a murder person's body, you don't call the police, no one does that. Everyone just thinks, oh, cool, free knife. And they just toss it in the revamp and don't wash it. Detective Davis now jumps in, tells Bill, Bill, you're fucking idiot. Come on, buddy, come out with better stories. No, he says, Bill, the police have found your tire tracks

and footprints at other crime scenes. And Bill's like, I don't know how, I don't know anything about those murders. And now he abruptly ends the interview and insists I will need that lawyer. Five days later, January 14th, 1992, Steve Sikovsky. Fuckin' skis. Informs detective Kieres that trace evidence from Bill's body and the van has matched the McDonald and Kassar's crime scenes.

Same day Bill was charged with both those murders. Before that he was being held without bond for his Texas parole violation. So it's nice that came in handy. After Bill was arrested and charged with murder, his mother Elizabeth, I love this was so angry with him. She started speaking to the prosecutors instead of his attorney and made the comment that the state quote should hang him. Kind of love it right now. She knew that fucker beat her grandbaby to death and now he's done this. She does not doubt his guilt for a second. She also writes her son Bill a letter saying that she doesn't blame herself for how he turned out.

She did the best she could, raising him, and taught all her kids good morals. I like that sentiment. I mean, did she raise him really well? Cures in St. Pierre noted that one stuff brother had a history of drug related crimes, another had a record for robbery, and the third had been arrested repeatedly for sexual assault, including sexual assault of a minor. I mean, she wasn't a desby, she wasn't a desby, she wasn't a passejack, but maybe not the best mom either.

Or maybe just got real unlucky with her brute. The task force now had a list of 19 murder cases from 1996 to 1991, they thought Bill was involved in, but there wasn't enough evidence in six of those cases to assure a conviction. The DA's office said that some of the evidence in the six cases was lost due to preservation problems in the passage of time. A few experts also concluded that at least two of the six murders probably not committed by Bill. Bill's arrangement for the first two murder charges took place February 28, 1992.

He pled not guilty. July 28, 1992, the DA's office announces that 12 more charges will be followed against Bill Suff. A county grand jury hands down the indictment July 24. The grand jury viewed evidence of tire impressions, shoe prints, bodily fluids, fibers, head and pubic hairs that link Bill to over a dozen crime scenes. Bill also charged with the attempted rape and murder of Rhonda Jetmore, right? The one that got away.

Despite all the evidence against him, the California court system was so backed up, it'll take three years for Bill to go to trial. February 16, 1995, a judge dismisses one count against Bill for the oldest murder case, 1986 murder of Charlotte, Jean Palmer. Charlotte's cause of death was undetermined, Hares found on her body similar to bills, but testing was not quite conclusive. Trial finally started March of 1995. Local news outlets did cover it,

but overall, like I mentioned, didn't receive much media attention. The OJ Simpson murder trial, you know, happening to LA at the same time, certainly not a, not helping. This case get a lot of coverage. And also just a general president's prejudice against sex workers. Riverside County DA Paul Zellerbach prosecutes the case according to

Kieres and St. Pierre. He often said that if the victims had been housewives instead of hookers, everyone would have been bending over backward to help solve the case. The defense tried to use the victim's line of work to influence the jury, Bill's attorneys protested when Zellerbick asked to present a poster board of family photos of the victims rather than using mug shots or similar photos. The Zellerbock prosecuted the case by himself. Said he agonized over the trial because his main goal was to prove the murders were connected. In other words, he had to prove Bill was a serial killer.

He was disorganized at the start, but as the trial continued, he presented a strong case. He presented a mountain of evidence from the crime lab fibers, head and pubic cares, tire tracks, shoe prints, DNA testing of semen left over chilly, maybe not that part. Bloody knife found in the van also had some of the victim's property found in Bill's possession. Opening statements delivered March 27, 1995, the LA Times reported that the prosecution's opening was dispassionate and plotting out. Zellerbach told the jury all the implements of Mr. Suffs trade when the back of his van that night the knife the rope the sleeping bag. Bill was represented by Randolph Diggs former Riverside County deputy DA and Frank Peasley the defense wanted to prove that not all

the murders were linked to Bill. They wanted to portray him as an average common man who was a victim of circumstance. Okay. Frank Peasley said in his opening statement that Bill did not, uh, excuse me, that Bill did employ prostitutes, but treated them with respect and was good to them. Why are you doing this, Frank? Do you hate women too? Uh, one big blow to the prosecution was that the critical portion of Bill's interview when he admitted to pulling the knife from Eleanor

Cesares's chest and taking it and her clothing with him could not be admitted in court because it occurred after he first asked for a lawyer The prosecution presented the murders in chronological order most of the trial details will not be discussed because we've already covered the evidence Lincoln Bill To the different crime scenes. Kieres and St. Pierre wrote about the trial. The trial itself was often tedious, laborious, and very technical. It seemed a torture for many to sit through, especially during the scientific evidence and DNA discussions, which seemed too many to be endlessly repetitious. Both sides expressed concern that jurors might be getting lost or bored to inattention

by the subject matter. Following our highlights of some of the most important testimony, Zeller-Bock told a jury that shoe prints from Cheryl Coker's crime scene had the same tread pattern as a pair of pro wings owned by Bill. Seaman found in the condom at the crime scene, match the DNA. The defense argued that the cat hair found on Sheree Pesour's body was consistent with Bill's cat, but that animal hairs, not as unique as human hairs and one cannot reasonably conclude that the hair came from bills cat

because not a man seeming was found in her body the prosecutors couldn't make a definitive conclusion that bill was the killer also reverse i detective my current testify that he found two over-sized g e miser ninety five watt light bulbs in bills apartment which matched exactly the light bulb found inside Tina Leel's vagina. Neighbors and associates testified about how Bill hated sex workers. Dr. Harold Deadman identified the blood on the knife found in the van as belonging to Eleanor Cesares or Casares and the semen in some of the victim's bodies as belonging to Bill Suff. Defense argued that if Bill was responsible for any

of the murders, it was likely unplanned acts of violence that occurred because the victims tried to rob or cheat him. The fuck out of here. Is that a book responded to that by saying, it is amazing how inconsistent the defense can be. Mr. Peasley says, Mr. Suff did not commit any of these crimes, none. But if you think he did, it's a spur of the moment rip off second degree murder of 13 times. There's no way in God's green earth that you can's a spur of the moment rip off second degree murder of 13 times.

There's no way in God's green earth that you can have a spur of the moment rip off killing 13 times over three years. Exactly. March 28th, Ronda Jettmore testifies as the first witness of the trial. Zellerbach asked Jettmore if she saw the attacker in the courtroom, she identified Suff, said, that's the man who attacked me. Ronda testified that her attacker said his name was Bob, but was wearing a belt buckle that said Bill. She described the attack in court saying that she noticed

Bill only paid her $1. Before they were supposed to have sex. She said before I could say anything to him, he grabbed me around the neck and pushed me back on the bed. While he was choking me, I had the opportunity to look at him. To look at the expression on the man's face, I was struggling, but I couldn't move. He was strong. I was scared. She fought him off by hitting him in the head with a flashlight. Fucking awesome. Rain in the screen for help, but Bill chased, grabbed her by the ankle before she got to the door. He tried

to take her clothes off. Bill's glasses fell off during the struggle and now he agreed to let her go if she would help him find his glasses. What the fuck? One second he's trying to literally kill her and rape her. And the next he's like, hey, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up. Can you help me find my glasses? It's super hard for me to see right now. There's no way I'm going to be able to strangle you if I can't see you clearly.

As they were, she, she starts helping him look for his glasses. What is happening? As they're looking for his glasses, she calls him look for his glasses. What is happening? As they're looking for his glasses, she calls him Bill. He responds. And then she escapes when he goes to grab the glasses that she spotted. Oh my God. Bill's extra often Bonnie actually testifies April 24th, 1995. He testified that Bill occasionally drove for white Toyota station wagon.

Earlier, Ron DeJetmore testified that the attacker was driving a similar vehicle. Bonnie testified about her relationship with Bill. Said she normally went to bed between 8 and 10. She would not have known if Bill was taking her vehicle out at night after that. Bill initially told her that he worked at a Texas prison, but his parole officer later forced him to tell the truth. He convinced Bonnie. He was innocent of murdering his daughter, said that his wife, or one of the neighbors must have done it.

Bonnie testified that the police almost mocked me when she told them that Bill was not violent with her. Bonnie testified that the person I knew was extremely kind to help with my elderly grandmother. When nobody else was there, he was there. He was helpful in the church. He was helpful to me. He took care of me when I was sick. He wasn't mean. I mean, he loved little animals. And I thought he loved children.

He never hit me. He never swore at me. Whenever he would get mad, I never swore at me, whenever he would get mad, I couldn't find my watch, I'd walk around, where's my watch and my watch would end up in a shoe or something like that. Okay, you kind of lost me with the watch stuff, Bonnie. Maybe Bonnie was between 90 and 100 years old. It seemed to kind of go off the rails a little bit at the end there. Bonnie confirmed that she and Bill went on the trip to King's Canyon once, right, an important detail because the defense argued that the King's Canyon shirt found on Tina Leal, not bills, but she was like, no, no, he did buy that shirt.

Bill's wife Cheryl Lewis is twin flame. Testifies May 3rd, 1995, speaking about the times he claimed he was teaching earthquake preparedness classes at night. Also spoke to his abusive nature and his loathing of sex workers. Closing arguments started July 10th. July 11th Randy Driggs said outside court that he expected Bill to be convicted of, you know, five or six murders, adding that's my realistic belief. That feeling has been more solidified during the trial.

The case went to the jury, July 12th, 1995. July 19th, the jury finds Bill guilty of 12 counts of first degree murder. The jury was deadlocked for almost a week regarding the 13th murder, that of Shari Pasura. One juror refused to change her decision and a mistrial was declared in that case. Bill also found guilty the 10th and murder of Ron Jetmore. Bill cried after the verdict was read. Oh, poor baby. Afterwards,

Drake's ready shitty statement from Bill to the families said, Bill wanted me to express some sentiments to the news media, especially to Mr. Little. He was very, very sorry for the deaths of anybody, but he wasn't responsible for them. Totally. He never beat his daughter to death, never killed any of these women. DA Paul's other back said after the verdict, I'd be upset too if I was on my way to the gas chamber. I'll hand him a tissue when he's walking into the gas chamber. Hey, I'll never mind. Fuck it, love it, Paul. You know, I should have drinks.

Penalty phase started July 24th, 1995. For the first time, the jury now heard about the murders of his infant daughter, Dijon A. Suff, and Lisa Lasek. The defense tried to imply the bill's first wife, Terrell, may have been the killer, and then they were reprimanded for the judge, or by the judge for saying that shit. The other back also testified about the abuse of Bill's other daughter, right, Bridget Suff.

She'll return to give testimony about that abuse. The victim's family-spoken court gave impact statements that humanized the victims, showed how they were beloved family members, then Randolph Riggs said in the defense's opening statement of the guilt phase, I want to talk about Bill Suff as a human being. The side you haven't seen before. And the defense presented some character witnesses, including Bill's mother. They didn't have very many witnesses. She was the only family member who testified. And she was not the best character witness as she still hated

him. Elizabeth Meade would testify August 8, 1995. Again, only family member who testified. Talked about how her husband, less of family never sent any money. So Bill got a job to help out. That part was nice. But then said that when she read about how Bridget was abused, made her doubt that her son was innocent and Dijon A's case as he claimed. Bonnie next testified about how Bill was kind and caring,

but he also stole 900 bucks from her grandma's caretaker account. He said he took the money to pay himself for the work he did for her without asking she negotiated a lesser payment than asked Bill to get the fuck out. And then when he left he took all the jewelry he'd ever given her with him. So you know not the most glowing character reference. That was a defense witness. Randy Drake's acid jury to consider life without parole rather than the death penalty and said that Bill would be a marked man in prison

because he was a child killer. Mr. Suffolk will be living on the edge of his seat for the rest of his life. He'll be worrying about his next step, his next move, who's behind him? August 17th, 1995, the jury votes for the death penalty. It took them a whole 10 minutes to reach that decision. I love it.

Some jurors later said they were hesitant to send bills to death during the, you know, this penalty phase until until they saw a photo of dead, you know, the child, Dijonet, Suff. Then it was full on, uh, can he maybe be taken out to the desert to have his eyes carved out with a spoon and ants put in his head and now the other shit dance head, uh, October 26, 1995 judge officially a judge officially sentenced bill soft to death. At the sentencing hearing bill poor good boy can't catch a break bill, uh, quote delivered a long rambling lament about his innocence and unfortunate situation bill said about himself during this fucking rant quote I'm a caring loving and helpful person

asking anyone close to me I gave people I barely knew money in food that's a kind of person I am the prostitute killings went on before I came to California and they continued after my arrest the responsible parties are still out there killing he said the evidence against him was planted to find someone, anyone killed to the murders. Oh, Billy boy. Also said he was a hopeless romantic and lamented that women would no longer want to be with him.

I hope he's receiving some romance in prison right now, like some very fucking rough violent romance. He specifically brought up the murder of Kimberly Little, arguing that he gave her food and money and invited her to live with him. He said, I could have killed Kim. I care for too much. No one seemed to give a fuck about what he say, not even mama. Two years after being sentenced to die in 1997, Bill Suff will work with author Brian Allen Lane for his book, Cat and Mouse, Mind Games with a serial killer. This book contains not only crime scene photos and details, fucking terribly disturbing photos. I didn't even realize they were in there. I was looking for some

other stuff. I was like, Sato a bitch. I can't see that. Also contains some original short stories and a poem written by our sweet sweet bill. And yes, I would like to share some of his work with you. This is his poem. It's so bad. Called That Forever Tier. And I'd like to read it over some ragtime music to make sure that no one likes it. And loving you with my heart. I'm holding you so close to me and marvel at the side I see. You're beautiful beyond compare. I reach for you, but you're not there. It's just a dream I realize. And once again, tears fill my eyes. I have this dream most every night.

I reach for you and hold you tight. But come the dawn, you'll disappear. And again I shed that forever tear. Wow, what a great literary work for a guy in his mid-40s. So complex and nuanced. And it definitely doesn't sound like a 12-year-old wrote that shit in fucking 10 minutes. For an in-class assignment that they didn't really care about. I'll spare you the short stories.

They're very long and fucking suck. April 28th, 2014, the California Supreme Court upholds the death penalty for Bill Suff. But then March 13th, 2019, California Governor Gavin Newsom signs an executive order replacing a moratorium on the death penalty in the state of California. Not a fan of that decision.

I do get protecting people who are innocent on death row right, could be innocent, possibly, small chance. But in cases like this, get the fuck out of here. No one in the US history has ever been falsely convicted of a dozen different murders from what I can tell. Come on. Last thing, as of today, Bill Suth, 73 years old, inmate number J8342, he's in San Quentin. Sources don't say that he and Cheryl ever got divorced during the last 30 years, but there's not a mention of them still being married. I'm going to assume

that they're divorced. I'm going to assume that his twin flame filed divorce paper, Merck, divorce paperwork, once he was sent to death row. Yes, still a car is written on death row and at San Quentin, despite the moratorium, where sadly, I guess he comes across as a real general soul, Yes, still a car straight on death row and at San Quentin despite the moratorium, where sadly I guess he comes across as a real general soul incapable of hurting a fly and is well liked by many of the guards and other prisoners. Good job, soldier.

You've made it back. Barely. Bill soft the Riverside Killer, what a monster. Suspected at least 19 murders between 1986 and 1991, convicted of 12 of those murders almost convicted of 13 sentenced to death. He did kill at least 13 people. He was convicted of beating his two-month-old daughter to death before these final convictions, little Dijonet Jean Suff nearly beat two other children to death as well.

When he wasn't beating the shit out of his babies or any woman he was in a relationship with, Suff, Target, and Sex workers, almost all of them in Riverside County, California. He was a cowardly predator who prayed on vulnerable people. Two teenage brides, three babies, women struggling with drug addiction and or homelessness. Many of them very physically small women. I would fucking love to see him get a taste of his own medicine, right? Get left in a cell with someone so much bigger and stronger than him. Someone who hates him as much as he hates his victims.

Like many, most I think of these dirt bags, he just will not admit what he's done and who he really is to this day. Probably gets off and feeling like he's tricking all the stupid people around him who fall for his gentle nice guy act. I hope that at least he can't trick himself. I hope deep down in his private moments of which he has so many now he does really truly know who he is and I hope he fucking hates himself for who he is. It's a very least I hope I hope he hates knowing that he will die in prison. He'll die not having known freedom since January of 1992,

over 30 years ago. Also, hope he checks out this episode. I mean, he's probably allowed to listen to the podcast. Hope it makes his blood boil. You sad little clown, Billy. Those kids back in high school, your old vice principal, maybe they found you pathetic

or didn't want to be around you because they saw the real you. Back when too many people still thought you were a good person. They saw the monster inside.ist torture murder of women, buzer murder of infants, lowest form of human. Pat say Jack did your dirty, but you can't blame Pat for who you became. Time for today's top five takeaways. Number one, William, Leicester Suff, born in Southern California, grew up in the 1950s and 60s.

I had a fairly normal childhood in California until his dad abandoned the family when he was just 16. His mother may have been critical and not overly affectionate towards her children, but she was not physically abusive. Why did he turn out the way he did? We'll never know, because he will never bother to look inward and try to find out and tell anybody. Number two, William Suf's first murder victim was his own infant daughter, Dijenae Suf.

Just two months old, when she died from a ruptured liver, other extensive injuries, she'd been abused by Bill almost since birth. Bill was sentenced to 70 years in prison for her death, plus another three for an additional crime, but released after less than 10. Number three, Bill Suff targeted sex workers almost exclusively in Riverside County, California, strangled or stabbed his victims sometimes both and it posed their bodies after death. Many victims posed in sexual positions, arms exposed to reveal needle marks, Suff also dumped some women in dumpster enclosures and put a trash bag over one victim's head, as if he were telling the police what he really thought of these women.

Some victims beaten before they died, others mutilated after death, several victims breast cut off, one victim had a light bulb inserted into her body after death. Number four, Bill Suff organized an annual chili cookoff among Riverside County employees for their yearly picnic and some of the care suspect that he may have put the missing breast of victim Catherine McDonald into his chili that they ate. Number five new info speaking of chili that book mind games the serial killer doesn't just contain, you know, bills poem and some of his short stories and also contains a whole bunch of bills recipes like so many including the

recipe for his cookoff winning chili. I'm gonna let Bill tell you all about it. His sweet sweet chili serves eight to ten. This recipe has a long extensive background. I first began attending chili cookoffs in Texas while working for Uncle Sam. I've tasted everything from rabbit, game bird, chili to possum and rattle state chili. Overall theme was a hot spicy chili. As I got older, my stomach began to rebel

as all those hot spices. So I had to modify my chili. After many, many different variations, I finally settled on the version that appears here in award winning one. For three years running, this is the version that took first place, award and its division. The first two of those years,

and also won the overall best chili grand prize award. But the biggest compliment I ever got from my chili came from an old girlfriend. She hated chili, couldn't stand it, wouldn't try it. One evening I fixed up a pot of it, it cooked all that night in the next day. That evening I was going to have a couple bowls and take the rest to work the next day. When I dished up a bowl, my girlfriend suddenly decided she wanted a taste. Half of the chili disappeared that evening and she took the rest of their next day for her lunch. After that, she still professed this taste for chili, but she sure had extra help into my chili. Now, you must realize there's a lot involved in making this chili,

and it's best if it gets a chance to cook a minimum of 15 hours. It can be fixed in a couple of hours if you're going to sacrifice some taste. But if you have the patience to let a cook all night into the next evening, well worth the wait. And please, I beg of you, don't spoil the chili by adding beans. As I stated many times, beans don't belong in chili. Beans may help the chili to go further in feeding, but it ruins the pure taste of the chili. If you want the chili to feed more people, make more chili.

Of course there are some people who will never understand that and will add beans anyway. Well, I say, let them stand down and win if those people who ate the beans! Ahaha! Oh, Bill! There's that sense of humor we love! Here's how you make that chili. Ingredients. Half pound of lean green beef. Quarter pounds of stewing beef. Cut to bite size. Quarter pound of shredded beef. Cut to half-bite size. Quarter pound of rib-bite steak. Cut to half-bite size. 1.25g of rib-eye steak, cut to half-bite size.

Maybe also want human breasts. That's not what you're up. 16oz tomato puree. 1.25g of sweet pickle relish. 2 tablespoons of vinegar, 2 tablespoons of lemon juice. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter.

1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 1.25g of butter, 1.25g of butter. 4 tablespoons helping best foods mayonnaise 2 tablespoons helping french mustard 6 tablespoons country crock tough butter 2 packages lorries chili mix seasoning 1 large tuk-free dos corn chips 1 small green bell pepper chopped

1 small stewing onion diced 1 cup green olives 1 pimento's quarter 8 large fresh mushrooms Slice and quarter 1 large jalapeno pepper Diced 3 bay leaves

Crushed 2 cups Sharp cheddar cheese Shredded 2 tablespoons chili powder 1 tablespoon corn size God damn I didn't know there was going to be this many ingredients. Two teaspoons salt, one teaspoon black pepper, one teaspoon of mints onion, one teaspoon of oregano, one tablespoon of hickory smoked salt, one tablespoon of garlic salt, one tablespoon of paprika, and now that you have all that in a skillet, cook the ground beef thoroughly then pour off the discarded degrees, add half of the bell pepper, stewing on it and

mushroom, plus one tablespoon of malt vinegar, two tablespoons of butter, one tablespoon of chili powder, one teaspoon of salt, one packet of chili mix seasoning. Cook for 10 minutes over medium heat, stir in occasionally. Pour juices into a saucepan, and if you're spooning them, you're best able to do two quart crock pops

that on low heat. Place the saucepan juices covered over low heat to simmer. Next, cook the rib eye steak, shredded beef, stewing beef, maybe one human breast, and a skillet. Then discard the grease. Follow above the direction to the second half of the above ingredients with the meat. Again, pour it on the saucepan and the simmer and solids into the crock pot. To the saucepan, add the pickle, red, and garlic, salt, here to smoke, salt, lemon juice, minced onion, cornstarch, and oregano. Bring heat to medium,

sure until mixture begins to boil, add mixture to the crock pot. Do the ingredients of the crock pot, add the flat beer tomato puree man his barbecue sauce, ketchup mustard, hot up in your paper black pepper, crushed bay leaves, two cups, sprinkles, corn chips, for me to butter, and one cup of shredded cheddar cheese. Cover and let cook on medium for two hours.

Or on low heat, preferably for minimum 15 hours, rest during occasionally. We went through cooking poor remaining cheddar cheese on top of chili, covered like sipped for 10 minutes, with heat off, serve hot, and sprinkle over top of remaining frizz, on top of David's own,ipher timis with heat off serve hot and freak a sprinkle over top of a main frizz a sourdough and fucking peppered taste whew there you go I did not expect to come across what might be a delicious

chili recipe today but you know here we are time suck tough five take away the Riverside killer America's forgotten serial killer has been sucked. And yes, I did practice saying that recipe to time it to the music. Thank you to Queen of Admatic, the rest of the team here, including Logan Keith, the art warlock, recording this show, Olivia Lee, providing initial research this week. Thanks to the space that's on Patreon for continuing to support this show and get early release ad free episodes.

Thanks to the all seen eyes moderating the cult of the curious private Facebook page, the Mod Squad making sure the Time Suck Discord channel stays fun and everybody else helping on all other Facebook groups. Thanks to everyone over on the Time Suck subreddit and Bad Magic subreddit. And now let's check out this week's Time Sucker Updates. Updates? Get your time sucker updates! Say his first update comes in from a sweet sack named Floyd, right now with a subject line of Vatis Big Deal about IBLP. Greetings to the Salutations Master of Time Sucker, Profit of Nimrod and Favorite Chutoy Bojangles. I guess you could be Lucifina's Favorite Chutoy as well, I don't know.

I'm writing for you for two reasons. One because you finally covered IBLP in the Dugger Dark Secrets episode of Time-Sug. I'd wanted to write in and suggest covering Bill Gotthardt, as we called him back in the day, but I'm still catching up to current date episodes after starting an episode one last year. I'm currently at 145, but I had to skip ahead to listen to the one about IBLP. Mainly because my family was deeply involved in it during the 90s to early 2000s. I personally met with old Billy Boy multiple

times, attended the first years of their fake college and even unwittingly smuggled 20,000 of cash into Russia for them, yay cult shenanigans. You definitely only scratched the surface of a very deep subject, not to mention the paramilitary group called Alert, that still runs out of their headquarters in Big Sandy, Texas. Ironically, on the campus of a different cult, they went to funk to a while back.

Thankfully, my siblings and I are completely out and enjoying life like, quote, normal people. Any chance I get, I will decry the madness of religious extremism and dangers of high control groups like IBLP. If you haven't seen the docuSeries shiny, half-e people yet, I highly recommend it. I might have been in it. As kids, we would never have been allowed to listen to anything as worldly as your comedy or podcasts, but I'm proud to say that I'm hooked after my brother harassed me into listening. He's a badass vet, awesome brother-in-law

If you can give a shout out to Ryan, mother, flip, and yancy, I'm sure you'd make his damn day But none of that is winebriding today. I'm curling episode 145 and For nearly a goddamn hour every time you reference a venomous snake you call it poisonous and I'm losing my mind Obviously if he didn't read it. Obviously you didn't read any wisdom booklets Obviously, if you didn't read it, obviously you didn't read any wisdom booklets, IBLP shitty homeschool materials, or you would know the difference. There were plenty of examples given of God smiting some unworthy sinner with venomous snakes, and that shit sticks with you. An easy way to remember it is if you bite something and you die, then it is poisonous.

If it bites you and you die, then it is venomous. Being a mush mouth does not adequately explain this simple gaff as my sister would say, do better. Thanks for what you do. The code for the curious is grateful. Please keep on sucking. Floyd. Floyd, I love this message. Big thanks to Ryan, Mother Flip and Yancy for dragging you into this weird little world. Yeah, I did eventually learn as you're probably here and already on small updates. The difference between venomous and poisonous, but I didn't get that awesome example. If you bite it, it's poisonous. If it bites you, it's venomous. Venomous. Yeah, that's awesome. And I did watch that doc, shiny, heavy people. So I did probably see you. And yeah, we barely scratched the surface of the IBLP. The paramilitary group they have is fucking bonkers,

truly thinking they can with God's help, of course, actually take over the world. Scary. Luckily, they are currently a bit outmatched by our military. Let's hope it stays that way. I hope you enjoy the rest of this ride. You got some wild episodes and a little bit of drama ahead of you before you're fully caught up.

Next up, probably small-headed and tiny-rested, sack, Tony P. Wright sent with no subject line. He says, Hey, Dan, I've been a big fan of yours for many years. I absolutely love time, so I've listened almost every single episode. I wanted to talk to you about the episode that you most recently did about in-sales because I used to be an in-sale. The only thing that really separated me from the entire in-sell ideology was that I understood that you can always change things about yourself and make yourself better.

And that's exactly what I did. I work out every single day, I take Brazilian Jitsu classes, I read every book I can get my hands on, I'm just doing things to improve myself as a human being. And I'm happy to say that now I have a girlfriend and we've been in a very serious relationship for what's going on in three years. And I'm happy to say that now I have a girlfriend and we've been in a very serious relationship for what's going on three years. And I couldn't be happier. Hail,

Nimrod, Hylosufina, Glory be to Triple M. I have a theory about in cells. You see, I myself have Asperger syndrome and so did Elliott Roger. I don't have any data to back all this up, but I'd be willing to bet you any amount of money that if there was ever some kind of mass psychological study on in cells, we would find out that the vast majority of them are on the autism spectrum. I say this largely because people like myself with autism struggle with really anything that involves anything that has to do with interacting with other human beings. People with autism have very little understanding about how relationships work. I certainly was this way for many, many years, which is why you have this entire in cell

ideology trying to explain away the reasons for you not getting late. Anyway, Dan, I absolutely love all you do. Keep on sucking. I'm looking forward to listening to time suck episodes for many more years to come. Yeah, I hope so. Tony, did you just dick-mog me? I think you might just verbally dick-mog me. Or maybe you info-mog me.

You definitely didn't school-mog me, not with this Frank Sinhead. Thank you for writing in. Good for you live and proof of how you know continually working on yourself can you know Almost always lead to good things. I would say always to some degree Enjoy your Lucifina treat her so much better than our belly today williams self would And regarding the autism spectrum. Yeah, I bet you're right You know would be cool if high schools had classes for people who do struggle socially on things like how to respectfully and successfully date.

Right? You know, those classes would be great for kids who don't have parents at home guiding them in that way. I think it's kind of weird that we don't have that. I mean, dating is such a big part of life for so many people, most people, almost all people, and you know, most of us get no real education in the basics of how to do that. I'm sure those classes would piss off some parents, but I also think if done right,

they would lead to so many people being so much happier. Thank you again, Tony. Don't break me with an arm bar or some shit if we ever meet. I'm a bigger guy. I look like I can probably take some damage, but I'm very stiff and breakable. Our next update comes in from Super Thoughtful Sack, Sophie R. Riding in with the subject line of thoughts on Insuldom and isolation. A lot of cool info coming right now.

Dear Suck Master, just got done listening to your Incellus fear episode. I was so excited to see you were covering this topic as studying the Manusphere. In cells and adjacent online communities was pretty much all I did the last two semesters of my undergrad years as a sociology student. I ended up submitting a thesis research proposal on suicidal ideation within in-cell communities and it was approved. Unfortunately, it was not submitted for full research as I had to transfer universities due to life circumstances changing. Still have it saved my hard drive since erasing over 20 pages of research is too much for my ego. You and your team did an excellent job researching the topic and covering the origins, current

state and ongoing evolution of the in-sell community. I was also really impressed with how much of the vernacular and studio science theories you covered that in-sells use in sight. I'll never forget trying to dissect the dense mind-bendingly of two scientific theories that in cells would regularly post on chat rooms and message boards and trying to figure out how I could possibly explain terms like foreskin mocked and foresaid forehead cell in my research without sounding off my rocker.

I did want to touch on one thing that I found in my own research that I wanted to tack on to your conclusions for consideration. I do apologize for the link to the email, but I feel there are too many things I can't leave out. I would undoubtedly classify in-sell ideology and manosphere beliefs as extremist and incredibly dangerous. While it's easy to get lost in the ridiculous labels, jargon, lack of reason, present within the in-sell community, the biggest thing I was alarmed by was the readiness and propensity

for violence against themselves and others, primarily women, as well as the active encouragement to isolate, insulate, and alienate themselves from, quote, normies. And the pressure present to allow themselves to be indoctrinated by manosphere ideology. Therapists were often compared to KGB agents, seriously, and therapy was referred to as psychological occupation. Most in cells I came across were very suicidal and would actively encourage other in cells to harm themselves or take their own lives, sometimes labeling these posts as rope fuel. They would often tell other in cells to post their suicide or self-harm online for proof

of their devotion to the cause. Fuck. Even saying that this is how you achieve true martyrdom and Elliot Roger status. I know that the logic of this doesn't make any sense, but as you discovered in your episode, not much of their logic does make sense. It's all an incredibly slippery slope towards actively planning and seeking out physical revenge towards women and others in society. They think have inflicted forced celibacy upon them. While it's easy to say that the Earth would be better off without these people and call it a day, I would argue that the installation and alienation of this group is what makes

it so dangerous to the general public, even comparable to terrorist groups in some circumstances. As you discuss, many voice that they are willing to hurt themselves and take others out with them to inflict as much damage as possible. It's close to impossible to tell if this language is ambiguous for shock factor or if they are actually planning to tax. I recall one source I used on my own research comparing in-cell tactics of isolation, indoctrination, and suicide to ISIS in its intensity and fervency. And I can't say I disagree. The media only tends to focus on in-cell violence after it has happened, not so much on the buildup and how that in-cell got to the point of extremism that they kill others and themselves. But what are we to do when in-cells are actively encouraging themselves and others to not seek

outside help and to not seek psychological intervention? Well I wouldn't say that full on in-cell dumb is super common, sympathy of, and justification of in-cell beliefs absolutely is, and that's where it all starts. Many incilles do not actively voice their beliefs outside of online forums as they know they will be shunned and shut up by others, but it's this isolation and echo chamber effect that allows extreme ideologies to grow and fester unchecked and unchallenged. I implore anyone and everyone who might even think that their loved one or friend is sympathetic to insult ideology, or is starting to slip into insult dumb, to please, please, please reach out to them. Have a conversation about why they believe the things

that they do, as factually and calmly as you can. More often than not, insults have an incredibly childlike, immature sense of emotion and view of the world, and their views have not been challenged or contested by others. This also comes along with perceived victim complexes that are intensified within these echo chambers. Even when it seems to be pointless and you're not getting through to them, keep pressing. Obviously, the views that in cells hold are disgraceful, abhorrent, and are usually mind-nummonly infuriating to listen to. Many people don't want to expose themselves to the shit that is spewed by in cells, and the natural reaction is to get as far away from that person as possible. I also realize that this is not realistic in every and all interactions with in cells,

as some are just too hateful and rage-fueled to be reason with, like your former friend you mentioned. But I promise, if you are the reason why even one would be in cell, questions or stops themselves even a little bit from diving deeper into the atmosphere, you are helping prevent further indoctrination and isolation within these fucked up communities and potentially saving innocent lives later down the line. We as humans cannot just stand by and let it all go unchecked. And we cannot and should not wait until

in-cell related violence has already occurred to try and put a stop to it. And if you feel that your unfriendly neighborhood in-cell is a threat to themselves, you or others, don't hesitate to report them. Make it your business, make it your problem. I cannot say how many in-cell attacks could have been prevented if authorities had been involved sooner and if someone had

just said something. I could honestly keep writing about this topic and I know there are a lot of important arguments and aspects I left out like freedom of speech argument, intersection with white supremacy, lack of moderation within online forums, etc. But I wanted to try and condense it as much as I could. I think it's something we can't gloss over when discussing Insuldom and the dangers that come with it. Keep on sucking. Don't stop doing what you're doing. It's more important than you know,

3.5 out of 5 stars would highly recommend Soviar. Well, Soviholy shit, you're a great writer. So much awesome information packed into a few paragraphs. I hope your research helped you get into grad school or whatever you were hoping it would do for you. I think you might be able to school mog me. If your school size is a reflection of your powerful brain, please don't school mog me. It'll give me headache. But seriously, thanks for showing how we should not get distracted by all the silly terminology to the point that we don't see it as a big problem. Yes,

talk to people who have these beliefs, challenge them with them try and get them to take the Tony P route Leave these echo chambers and focus on personal improvement fucking rope fuel. That is dark One more update now quick one Silly one coming in from dried up sack KB no subject line for the silly sucker who writes hey Dan I have an autoimmune disease where a symptom is vaginal dryness and you're absolutely correct after losing to the in-cell suck, my pus-plus has never been drier. So thanks for that, KB. P.S., I would also rate myself as a Becky light on my best days and a two normally. KB, why is pus-plus so much funnier than just saying pus? I hope I always find slang for private parts, this funny.

Sorry about you and your super, super dry push, but careful doesn't crumb into dust. Then you'll just be like a Becky Light Barbie doll with nothing but smooth, whole free skin down there. Glad we can have serious discussions and also get silly with all the crazy shit we talk about here. Thanks everyone for sending in messages to both jangles at Timesug Podcast dot com. You're the fucking best! Thanks, Timesuggers.

I need a net. We all did. Thanks for listening to another Bad Magic Productions podcast. I'm scared of death. Timesug each week. Please, please, please. Do not hit any babies this week. And don't kill any sex workers.

Be nice to babies. That'd be nice to sex workers. Babies are cute and helpless. Babies fucking love everything. And sex workers, I mean, come on, they fuck you. Why is that something to be mad about? Pay them their money, relax, and maybe enjoy it while they keep on sucking. I almost forgot to mention one more very important super relevant sponsor today.

Today's time suck was brought to you by Croles Cafe and Maltzcha. Hello fellow Diner and sexy Kyle Lover. This is your him Crole and I want you to come to my cafe down in Strusele Sarkraft. We have the finest chocolate moths and the sexiest hamburgers. But mostly people come for the blue light specials. This week we have a nice bowl of soft special, no-beans, some breast chili. In the world-winning dish, made with a little extra love.

And whoever finds the nipple in the bowl, it's for free. So come on down to close cafe, where it's all these mostly beef. I promise. you