Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 384 - Satanic Panic and the West Memphis Three

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

In the Spring of 1993, three eight-year-old boys were murdered in West Memphis, Arkansas. And immediately, thanks to outlandish, paranoid Satanic Panic notions, investigative suspicion fell on a local eighteen-year-old, Damien Echols, ignorantly believed to be the leader of a local Satanic cult, and two of his teen friends, falsely believed to be his followers... Watch the Suck on YouTube: https://youtu.be/UiP4cd3rvH8Merch: https://www.badmagicmerch.comTimesuck Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vThanks to our Patreon supporters for allowing us to donate $12,900 to truckersagainsttrafficking.org and another $1,440 to our scholarship fund! Thanks to Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio for the first soundbed, and "CESARE RIDES AGAIN" by WombatNoisesAudio for the second soundbed. Want to join the Cult of the Curious Private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch-related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard? Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast.Sign up through Patreon, and for $5 a month, you get access to the entire Secret Suck catalog (295 episodes) PLUS the entire catalog of Timesuck, AD FREE. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. And you get the download link for my secret standup album, Feel the Heat.

Why would someone confess to a crime they did not commit? It's a complicated question. One that lawmakers, psychologists, and members of law enforcement have sought to answer for years. Many people find it impossible to believe that someone would make a false confession, especially when it comes to violent crimes like murder, but it does happen, especially when the confessor is confused, scared, manipulated, and especially susceptible to social pressure for cognitive or other reasons. One of the most well-known examples of a false confession in recent U.S. memory happened

in the case of the West Memphis 3. On May 6, 1993, the bodies of three 8-year-old boys were found in a pond in a little wooded area of West Memphis, Arkansas. The crime was extremely heinous. The children's clothing had been removed, their hands and feet had been bound with their own shoelaces. One of the victims' genitals appeared to have been savagely mutilated. The members of West Memphis law enforcement assigned to this investigation had never come across a shocking crime quite like this. Three young, bound bodies and no obvious suspects, no smoking gun. Nevertheless, despite no evidence, they immediately zeroed in on some suspects anyway, one in particular.

Thanks to the wildly irresponsible paranoia of a local juvenile parole officer named Jerry Driver, law enforcement efforts very quickly focused in on one local teenager named Damien Eccles. Damien dressed in all black, listened to heavy metal, had evil tattooed on his knuckles, and was a follower of Wicca. And in Jerry's mind, that all equaled to Damien being the leader of a local satanic cult. In 1993, a nationwide satanic panic that had begun in 1980 still had a powerful grip on the minds of many in the conservative Christian south. The follower of any religion outside of Christianity was regarded with a lot of suspicion, and followers of any religion that fit under the big umbrella of paganism were often accused

of literally worshiping the devil in a way that actual members of the Leveyan Church of Satan or the Satanic Temple would find utterly laughable. The Satanic Panic is called a Panic because it was not rational. It was entirely based on a fear of something. There has literally never been any evidence of its existence. A global, evil network of various interconnected demon worshipping and conjuring cults with ties to nefarious powerful people in high places, intent on destroying Christianity and turning the world into some type of hellish, debauchery playground where the few Christians that remain are kept in cages,

mostly only let out to be sacrificed or bred to produce babies to again be sacrificed to the Dark Lord. It's a fever dream. Of scared people, real good at employing magical thinking and real bad at using reason and logic. And sadly this crazy dream has led to a lot of real-world injustice. After zeroing in on Damien, misguided law enforcement members also targeted two of his friends, teens they believed to be members of his satanic cult, Jesse Miss Kelly and Jason Baldwin. Jesse, who is developmentally disabled, was interrogated for hours by detectives who essentially coached him to give them the confession they wanted. He eventually confessed, after being fed so much evidence to pair it back to investigators,

that he, Jason and Damien did attack the three boys, and that Jason and Damien sexually and satanically abused and then killed them. He soon recanted his confession, insisting that he was lying and that they were innocent. But it was too late. The damage was done. The wheels of injustice had been set in motion. Despite no real evidence tying them to the crimes outside of Jesse's confession, all of the three teens were convicted of murder at their later trials. Damien Eccles, the alleged ringleader of a cult that did not exist, was sentenced to death.

It was truly a witch hunt. And the three young men soon became known as the West Memphis Three. An HBO documentary put a national spotlight on the case, and the West Memphis Three received public support and funding from a lot of high-profile celebrities. If not, they would still be in prison. Damien might not be around. After 18 years, the West Memphis Three would be released from prison in 2011, but they were not exonerated. They took Alfred Pleas, acknowledging their innocence while recognizing that the state

had evidence against them and that they may yet be convicted at another trial. And with that plea, unless it can be reversed, the real killer or killers will never be investigated. The West Memphis Three have tried to rebuild their lives and reputations in the years since their imprisonments, but it has not been easy. The state has never apologized for what was done to them, never compensated them for their false imprisonments. Currently, Damien is fighting hard to get new DNA evidence examined that he believes will conclusively point to the real killer and open up a path to a new trial that could finally, truly exonerate he, Jason, and Jesse. Despite living free, many still believe these guys

are child killers. Many others believe a man named Terry Hobbs did it, the former stepfather of one of the murder victims. I am now one of those others. Today we will discuss how the satanic panic influenced the case from the very beginning, the false confession that set everything into motion, the trials and appeals of the West Memphis 3, and we'll take a good hard look at Terry Hobbs, and a re-examination of evidence that paints a very different picture of what happened to those poor three boys than what was presented at the original trials. All this and more on this week's evil satanic, why would anyone in their right mind defend the disgusting, occult actions of the West Memphis 3 true crime to hell with the devil

edition of Time Suck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to Time Suck. You're listening to Time Suck. Happy Monday, meet sex, righteous patriarchs and used bicycles rejoice. Come on. Uh, welcome to this installment of the cult of the curious. I'm Dan Cummins, brother, the ultimate sucker, master of the aluminum foil claw, which is kind of like the iron claw, but really, really easy to escape out of. Chili aficionado.

And you are listening to time suck. Hail Nimrod. Hail Oosofina, praise be to good boy Bojangles, glory be to Triple M, I'm feeling a lot better today. Got a little bit of cough, still, it might show up, but feeling good. Real quick, before I get started, huge shout out to Zach Root, former Spaceless or Trivia champion,

for publishing his debut graphic novel, Reptile. That's a big accomplishment. And it is awesome. Zach sent in a copy to the Suck Dungeon. I read the whole thing. It is great. You can order a copy, physical or digital stickers, posters at ReptileGraphicNovel.com. If enough people buy copies of his independently produced debut, he will keep

writing the story of Dead Headstone or Billy's journey into a world of cults, conspiracies and humanoid reptilians. Good job, Zach. I'm proud of you. Whatever that's worth. For the first charity donation of 2024, we'll be donating $12,900 to Truckers Against Trafficking while putting $1440 into the Common Scholarship Fund. Thank you, Space Lizards, for that.

We are proud to have a lot of truck drivers in our community, and as such, we have been asked on multiple occasions to consider truckers against trafficking. We briefly considered truckers for trafficking, but we passed. Now, truckers against trafficking, better known as TAT, is a 501c3 that exists to educate, equip, empower, and mobilize members of the trucking bus and energy industries to combat human trafficking. If you want to learn more about TAT, whether that be donating or gaining valuable training, you can visit truckersagainstrafficking.org.

And that is Truckers Against Trafficking, not Truckers For Trafficking. Get the fuck out of here. Regarding the scholarship, keep listening. More info on that coming soon. Applications will open up again in March. And now it is time to worship the devil. I mean, share this story. Get out here. Today's episode structure will be pretty simple. I'm going to lay things out exactly as my dark Lord and Master Satan has decreed. I sold my soul to the devil when I denounced the reality of the lizard Illuminati in the very first episode of Time Sack, and I'm not gonna turn my back on my B.L.s about Buddy now.

But for real, it's pretty straightforward. I'll begin with an overview of how the Satanic panic began and influenced the country in the 80s and 90s, followed by laying out today's story in a full timeline of the case, and what has happened regarding this case in recent years. Things still moving along, actually. So now light your candles, sit in the center of your pentagram, raise your pitchfork towards the heavens as if you might want to give little Jesus a little poke in the tuchus, and let us begin.

Oxygen.com writes, in the early 1980s, a moral panic rippled across the US, echoing the supernatural hysteria of the Salem Witch Trials 300 years earlier. Strangers and neighbors alike were accused of belonging to clandestine satanic cults that indulged in ritualistic sex, child abuse, and murder. To hell be the devil Doth, Suicide Girl vibes, several sexy women with black fingernail polish, wearing dark hooded robes, nothing underneath, but maybe fishnet stockings, some lingerie, 80's women with a teased up hairspray, wall of bangs hair, who like to play with ceremonial daggers, women who want to break a bunch of sexual taboos, I mean that sounds pretty fantastic.

Forget what I said earlier about being glad that Satan got kicked back to hell. Might have to make some MASSA hats, start a new campaign make America a satanic again Hey, holy subpoena sounds hot as fuck and And I have to make those hats red of course, you know, it's not gonna confuse anybody Actually when I first wrote that down on my notes. I got excited. I'm like, maybe we should actually make those hats They already exist. I thought it might be funny to sell them as a joke, but lefthandcraft.com, beat us to it! Okay, enough nonsense for a second. There really was a moral satanic panic in the 80s, and then it would extend into the 90s as well. Two of the most infamous

crime cases to come out of the satanic panic were the West Memphis Three and the McMartin preschool trials. But there were so many other equally troubling and lesser known cases. We mentioned the McMartin Preschool Trial before in the Mandela Effect episode and the Ripper Crew episode and I believe at least one other episode. It's worth revisiting here again in a bit after I talk about the book that lit the fuse on the Satanic Panic. The Panic began with the publication of Michelle Remembers, November 1st, 1980, a book that truly terrified millions of people who had grown up worrying about the dark powers of Satan.

He's everywhere, constantly trying to trick you and, I don't know, get you to fuck a goat or make out with someone of the same sex or listen to Megadeth or some shit. He works in even more mysterious ways than his creator. Michelle remembers terrified people who grew up hearing about all the cults of the late 60s and 70s, like the Manson family, what happened with the People's Temple in Jonestown. And who were these cult members really worshiping? Satan. I mean, they weren't actually devil worshipers explicitly, but that's how Satan gets you.

He tricks you into being pagan or Buddhist or agnostic, anything other than Christian, and then he gets your soul forever. These cults demonstrated just how powerful the dark one could be. This really did worry people. Michelle Remembers was written by the highly imaginative, extremely melodramatic, attention-starved, and probably super fucking mentally ill Michelle Smith, and her unethical, fuck sleazy superstitious quack psychiatrist Lawrence Pazter. Can you tell that I really hold these two geniuses in high regard? Smith claimed she was sexually abused by members of the Church of Satan over a period of four years of sessions

with Dr. Pazter, a man obsessed with the occult who had previously traveled to Africa and elsewhere to witness non-Christian religious ceremonies that he always felt were satanic. Anyway, Michelle Smith never abused by Satanist. 100% never happened. This book has been debunked over and over and over easily debunked. And it continues to be an award-winning documentary about the book called Satan Wants You Just Made The Film Festival Rounds this last year, 2023. Even before it was debunked, it's a very stupid book. I've tried to read it, and it's fucking terrible. I'll share an excerpt here soon. While Michael or Michelle, excuse me, was never abused by Satan, as she was for sure getting deep-dicked by Dr. P, these two devout righteous demon fighters started fucking at some point

during these sessions while they were both married and then the therapy sessions continued which is highly unethical, massive conflict of interest, and then these two would profit greatly together off the content that came out of these private therapy sessions, also I think unethical. Dr. Fuckhead should have had his license revoked. Their affair would lead to the end of the very devout Catholic, Dr. Pazder's longstanding or Pazder's longstanding marriage with a mother of his four young kids. Their long affair would weirdly never get brought up during the massive worldwide promotional

tour these two mortal crusading dipshits would go on. It just didn't fit the sexy narrative of the noble Catholic doctor uncovering this helpless Christian damsel in distress, having her spirit needing to be rebuilt by her knight in shining armor after her soul was abused by these devil folk. Losofina just gagged. Journalist, author, and heavy metal music expert Mike McPatten said of the Satanic Panic in this book, The actual Big Bang moment of the satanic panic occurred

with the publication of Michelle Remembers. The book is ostensibly Smith's recovered childhood memories of being abused by a satanic cult and includes lurid details of children in cages and devil worshipers feasting on dead babies. It successfully pushed the notion of a network of child-abusing satanic cults throughout North America. Pazder first started treating Michelle Smith and his private psychiatric network of child abuse and satanic cults throughout North America. Pastor first started treating Michelle Smith and his private psychiatric practice in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada in 1976 for depression related to a miscarriage.

And at some point, Smith had a session where she screamed for 25 minutes nonstop and eventually started to speak in the voice of a five-year-old. And that's, you know, that's pretty fucking weird. Maybe instead of prescribing her his dick and encouraging her to babble more about the devil, maybe he should have had her committed to an inpatient psychiatric facility and Medicaid. Just a thought. Over the next 14 months, Pazder spent over 600 hours using hypnosis to help Smith play Satanic Madlib, I mean recover, alleged memories of Satanic ritual abuse that she said occurred when she was

5 in 1954 and 1955 at the hands of her mother Virginia and a bunch of other Satanists, a bunch of prominent community members, all of whom Smith now said were members of a powerful Satanic cult in Victoria. Pazzer and Smith claimed she was abused by the Church of Satan, which he stated based on zero evidence, was a worldwide organization predating the Christian Church with powerful shadowy members behind all the evil shit that happens everywhere, genocides, mass starvation, pestilence and plagues, Metallica concerts, pornography, all R-rated, most PG-13-rated movies, Hollywood and gay-loving liberal elite doing all the pizza-gate, QAnon

type shit that they constantly do. All of this connected to an international satanic cabal that will stop at nothing to destroy your very soul. The first alleged ritual attended by Smith took place in 1954, she claimed, when she was just five five when her mother gave her over to the Satanist and Where did the ritual abuse take place? Why in the local cemetery? Of course. I mean, I mean, where else? I mean, I guess it could have taken place in like a bat infested cave That might be spooky enough or maybe in the basement of an abandoned Victorian style mansion. That's pretty spoopy Another cool setting for some horror cosplay, but the cemetery is classic. Probably the most cliche, I mean best. It all happened inside a massive round room accessed by entering a tomb in Victoria's

Ross Bay Cemetery. A room that you can't find today. Because I guess, I don't know, I guess you have to know some satanic code words to open a secret door or portal or something to enter it. Say beels above six times while spinning around six times while holding up six fingers or some shit. Details like that are not really given. They forgot to make that stuff up. You should write to demon zombie expert Chad Debel in prison. He probably knows how to get in. The final ritual documented in the book was an 81 day long satanic sacrifice marathon.

Think the old March of Dimes, Jerry Lewis Telethon. But instead of a bunch of like, you know, celebrity volunteer operators taking donations calls to raise money for muscular dystrophy, there's a bunch of people in robes handing babies over to Satan to be torn apart. If you read Michelle Remembers, you'll learn that Satan loves tearing up babies into pieces, more than anything. He's addicted. He's addicted to ripping babies apart.

The final ritual went down in 1955. The devil himself was summoned. And before it was all over, Jesus, Virgin Mary, the Michael, the archangel would all show up and they would remove the scars received by Smith throughout the year of abuse and also would remove memories of the events, quote, until the time was right, which is pretty convenient. That's how no one noticed any of this stuff happened at the time. Interesting here, I feel like Mary and Michael showing up are overkill. I mean, since Jesus is God, God's all powerful, it seemed kind of weird that God would need the help of his mom and an angel to heal the scars. During these rites, Michelle was allegedly tortured, locked in cages, sexually assaulted,

forced to take part in various rituals, including wild orgies. She witnessed so many murders, was physically assaulted by none other than Satan himself, was forced to eat human shit, was rubbed with the blood and body parts of richly sacrificed murdered babies and a few adults as well. And all that happened, 100%. Smith would even appear on Oprah Winfrey in 1989, along with Laurel Rose Wilson, who wrote another nonsense book called Satan's Underground. Both of these women's claims never questioned by Oprah.

Just like Smith's claims were never questioned by Geraldo Rivera or the dozens of other various news pundits and journalists who interviewed her. Laurel Rose Wilson, by the way, just to show how nonsensical all this stuff is, she said her parents had her satanically molested and made her fuck animals and all sorts of shit started at the age of four lasting until her early 20s. Her sister and other family members would vehemently refuse these claims.

Law enforcement would never take her claims seriously because she was bat shit fucking crazy. She will get into trouble in the late 90s for pretending to be a Jewish Holocaust survivor, claimed to be experimented on by none other than Dr. Joseph Mengele. Did I mention she grew up in Tacoma, Washington and doesn't even have any Jewish family members? She spoke at some presentations alongside actual Holocaust survivors

and even fucking stole money from a Swiss Holocaust survivor fund. She's a real piece of shit. A professional liar and one of the architects of the Satanic Panic. Back to Michelle Smith. If Smith was part of an 81-day-long Satanic ritual that went down in Ross Bay Cemetery, how is it she was never absent from school for prolonged periods during that same time. Smith's school records were accessed by some journalists who thought she was full of shit.

No unusual absences from, you know, the time she was supposedly abused. She was somehow satanically abused for 81 straight days and went to school that whole time, got good grades, looked fine. Her old teachers and classmates interviewed. No one remembered her coming to school with, you know, like fucking marks of the beast all over her or all this, uh, you know, evidence of her being abused and cages and fucking raped and orgies and shit. Also the Ross Bay cemetery surrounded on three sides by a big residential area. No one remembers any unusual activity from when this abuse supposedly occurred.

Right. There wasn't about like long lines of people in robes, you know, chanting, fucking going to their mausoleum and sneaking in. The police never investigated Smith's claims into the supposed satanic ring because her claims are not even close to being credible. There was no spike in murders or missing people, you know, fuck a lot of extra babies didn't go missing when Satan supposedly gobbled them up left and right. The only evidence that anything Smith said occurred that actually did occur is her saying it did.

That's it. Here's a little excerpt from this crazy-ass book. Just show what they were doing. Satan had gone back into the fire. Now he emerged, completely changed. For a moment he had a face, long noseed eyes wired apart. It was the face of a pig. The worshippers had changed too. They all were wearing white. They were ready for the first of the three required sacrifices. From the dark tunnel came the noise of marching feet, and soon a force of attendance surrounded

the outer circle. Each was carrying what appeared at first to Michelle to be a pole, then was identifiable as an unpointed pitchfork. And under each arm they carried that object as necessary to the proper performance of the Black Mass as bread and wine are to the Catholic Mass, the body of a baby. One by one the marchers approached Satan with extreme deference and kneeling before, unloaded the little corpses in a pile at his feet. One by one he snatched them up and cut them apart, throwing the pieces to the worshippers. Eagly they reached for the bloody fragments sometimes fighting for them, and smeared their

white robes with the gore, staining them red, white to red purity to death. It was a basic liturgical dynamic. And Satan addressed the worldwide representatives of his dominion. All the world tonight will hear, all the ears of yours are near. My message spreads from mouth to man. My message spreads from mouth to man. My message spreads from land to land. Powers of darkness, powers of night, powers of darkness, powers of night. And then the entire black mass congregation starts chanting a bunch of

dumb Prince Darkness bullshit. Then Satan takes his place on an altar, trying to buy red circle of flames. Fires run up and down his body. Then a stone on the satanic altar has a red cloth appear over it. And then a monstrous spider walks over the cloth. Then a fucking bat shows up, vampire bat specifically, why not? It purges on the altar's edge. Then a knife with a snake for a handle materializes. Ah, fuck, I'm checking all the boxes.

We got bats, spiders, snakes. Now, Satan's tail shoots out and Michelle wraps around her legs as the worship continues. People are chanting poorly written, cartoonishly evil shit, just stuff like... To my fire must go a human part. In death we live, in dying we start. Bring forth, bring forth the sacrifice.

Bring me the one that's number 12. I like how they gave up on trying to rhyme those last two verses. It's too much work. Then some of Satan's words first, carry a virgin girl who's been tied to a cross, upside down, of course, into the room. Her legs are spread apart. Satan sprinkles some kind of white power on her, not powder power. Sprinkles a little white, little white power on her.

Didn't realize Satan was a KKK grand dragon. Then he spouts some more bad poetry. Then he cuts her heart out with the ceremonial dagger, uh, throws into the fire. Then he cuts her in half of the waist. Then he cuts the top half of her lengthwise in half, bottom half for lengthwise. Now tosses all her parts into four piles. Then 13 women dressed in black now Solidly approached the beast carrying more dead babies. You can't have enough fucking dead babies for these things Satanic rituals are mostly about dead babies

Like if you're have if you're making a casserole and you wanted to bring it to say tannock ritual If it's not made up of at least 50% dead baby. Well Satan's not gonna eat it And then it just fucking goes on and on and on and on. It's like just to plan. Yeah, I love that the fucking poetry in there that Satan is chanting. It's like it was written by a fucking nine year old. Actress Smith had seemingly recovered her memories. She and Pasadar consult with various church authorities.

They eventually travel all the way to the Vatican where they get an audience. And then once the book is published, it gets a lot of press. So many people ate this shit up. Just totally accepted Michelle's coached fever dream ramblings. Ramblings created through a quack psychiatrist fucking around with hypnosis. Radio host, politicians, educators, high-ranking law enforcement members, various celebrities, all kinds of church leaders, prosecutors, many more people hear this and do not think, get the fuck out of here! Fuck is wrong with you, that silly bullshit.

No, they hear that and react with, we have to save our children from the diabolical satanist. Michelle and Dr. P tour all over the world. They appear on incredible mainstream news programs. Michelle has presented to viewers as the victim of satanic ritual abuse, like it for sure happened, which she should have been presented as mentally ill at best, a fucking liar at worst. In the years since, several published studies have proven that memories recovered from hypnosis sessions not reliable at all.

Memories recovered during hypnosis sessions are about as credible as memories you might have while you're tripping balls on LSD. About as reliable as the spectral evidence used during these Salem witch trials in 1692. We talked about that years ago, right? Witnesses claiming during the Salem witch trials that the accused had appeared to them and harmed them in their fucking dreams. Or in visions. And by vision, I just mean daydream.

And then a kangaroo court, right court right sends people to death in Salem Siding is evidence of their satanic misdeeds dreams like a regular ass dream Somebody said they had about him. They didn't you can't even prove that Smith's false memories, you know were enough to convince millions. She had been satanically abused is took it at face value Similarly flimsy evidence will convict the West Memphis 3. Dr. Pasder, due to the popularity of this book, well, he gets hired a couple years later as a fucking consultant for the McMartin preschool investigation.

Dude was paid government money for his expertise. So that's cool. In 1983, children at the preschool claimed all kinds of crazy dumb shit thanks to a bunch of satanic panic hysteria, like being flushed down magical toilets in your secret rooms where they were then sexually abused

during satanic rituals, sometimes by celebrities. How did those claims start? This just gets better. Judy Johnson, mother of one of the Manhattan Beach, California preschools young students, reported to the police that her son had been sodomized by her estranged husband and by McMartin teacher Ray Bucky. Ray Bucky was the grandson of school founder Virginia McMartin and son of administrator Peggy McMartin Bucky. Well, Johnson started

to think her son had been abused. Why? Because he had some painful bowel movements. He had some trouble pooping and she jumped. She'd fucking skipped over constipation and went right to my ex-husband must be sodomizing him. Her paranoia, he didn't sodomize anybody, her paranoia will lead to the most expensive criminal trial in US history at that time. Cost over $15 million. One that would last all the way until 1990, when the charges were finally dropped after numerous lives had been permanently ruined. Once police started listening to her, Johnson went on to make several more accusations, including that people at the McMartin Daycare fucked various

animals during satanic orgies, where kids were also fucked. She spoke of Ray Bucky using occult powers to literally fly through the air like some kind of dark wizard stucked about witches on actual broomsticks. So cartoonish. Flying around, doing all kinds of shit. And why was she saying all this? Because she was very mentally ill. She was an unmedicated, paranoid schizophrenic who was also a religious zealot and to add some icing to her shit cake, she was a hardcore alcoholic. Shortly after making those accusations, Johnson would be hospitalized for acute paranoid schizophrenia in 1986, just three years after she'd first talked to police, she'd be found dead in her

home from complications of chronic alcoholism before the preliminary hearing for the McMartin trial even concluded. By the time she died, the Satanic Panic narrative she had begun to spread to detectives on the case, they then used them to ask leading questions to convince a whole bunch of other kids and parents the ritual Satanic abuse occurred. Eventually, 360 kids will claim to have been abused. One kid even said that Chuck Norris stopped by the daycare to satanically abuse him. Right. Apparently that's how Chuck stayed in great shape, right? Not because of Bowflex, but because the devil, right?

Satan gave him fucking shredded abs and sweet, powerful roundhouse kicks. Other kids claim they had been transported to and from rituals in some kind of devilish hot air balloon. Classic Satan. Everybody knows the devil's preferred method of transport. You know, when he, when his evil war scene is having its hooves worked on or some shit, is to hop onto a, into a hot air balloon. Hot air balloons perfect when traveling to and from the lake of fire.

Still others said they were taking to rituals via secret underground tunnels. Tunnels that were never found because, you know, they don't exist. There were claims of orgies at car washes and airports where the kids were abused. Yeah, a classic satanic orgy locations I don't even fucking bother going to the car wash anymore. I'm so sick of being stuck in line Waiting for the satanic orgy to wrap up so I can get my truck clean and Touring for years. I've missed several flights due to being stuck in line you know behind for TSA waiting for the security to break up the satanic orgy at the head of the line. Excuse me! Can you guys stop fucking that

goat for like 10 seconds? I gotta make it to my gate! Some interviewed children talked about a game called Naked Movie Star which investigators took to believe they meant they were forcibly photographed nude but then during talked about a game called Naked Movie Star, which investigators took to believe they meant they were forcibly photographed nude, but then during the trial testimony from the children stated that Naked Movie Star was a game just like a rhyming taunt that they would use to tease other children.

What you say is what you are. You're a Naked Movie Star. That's it. But they jump right to someone taking Naked Pictures of these children. That's a fuck. March 22, to someone's taking a nigga pictures of these children Fuck March 22nd, 1984 Virginia McMartin Peggy McMartin Bucky Ray Bucky Ray sister Peggy and Bucky teachers Mary Ann Jackson Betty Raider and Babette Spittler all charged with 115 counts of child abuse Which would later be expanded to 321 counts of child abuse involving 48 children. That's what actually went to court.

Uh, did I mention that Laurel Rose Wilson, fake Holocaust survivor, right? Holocaust survivor impersonator, author of Satan's underground. She showed up in this trial. Oh yeah. She claimed to have witnessed and stopped some of the abuse. She also claimed to have been tricked into a lesbian relationship with Virginia Martin. Damn you, Satan. I thought I was having sex with my husband! Now I realize I was munching

on Virginia's devil box! She never even fucking met Virginia! But investigators, oh they still took her claim seriously. By 1990, all those people will be acquitted, but by that point the damage had been done. Ray Bucky, the last defendant to be acquitted, when he's finally released all the charges dropped, he had spent over five years in prison as a suspected satanic pedophile. Years later, the kids suspected of being abused confessed as adults that they had been strongly pressured to go along with this satanic abuse narrative that investigators and therapists hired by the state were pushing. By the time the trial was over, a few of the accused had died, died while their

community still thought they were satanic pedophiles. The preschool, a family business went bankrupt. Then across the country, other daycare providers made sure not to hug or touch kids anymore, even though child experts say this contact is needed by children. Out of fear that their actions could be interpreted as signs of abuse. Other daycare centers close their doors due to insurance companies scared of molestation lawsuits, substantially raising liability insurance rates. The ripple effect was fucking terrible.

And the satanic panic ruined other lives and less publicized trials. Dan and Frances Keller, for example, ran a daycare center from their Oak Hill home in Austin, Texas. That innocent couple will be sentenced to 48 years of prison in 1992. They were convicted of charges that they had dismembered infants for Satan. Sexy abused children in their care used those kids to carry the bones of corpses exhumed from local cemeteries and making kids do shit like drink Kool-Aid mixed with human blood. Their convictions based entirely on the fantastical testimony of coerced children and tenuous circumstantial physical evidence presented by a doctor

Michael Miao, an emergency room physician who treated one of the girls that Kellers were alleged to have abused and then this doctor Miao will later recant his testimony. Just got swept up in the Satanic Panic light and court. Sorry about that! Oh, gosh, dang. I wish I could take it back. Paranoia, it's a fucking hell of a drug. Kellers would not be finally released until 2013

after they served more than 20 years in prison. Over two decades of other inmates thinking they were Satanic pedophiles. And you can find a lot of other examples of, again, lives ruined by this hysteriaophiles. And you can find a lot of other examples of, again, lives ruined by this hysteria. You know what you can't find? A single fucking example,

not one of a bunch of kids being molested by a giant covert organization of devil worshipers and satanic rituals. The consistent claim of paranoid satanic panic morons. A lot of people have been arrested. But in most cases, the accused get out on appeals after witnesses recant, and in a few cases, yes. People have been molested in sacrilegious ways

by people who are severely mentally ill in almost every single case. Never are they proven to be members of some big organization dedicated to satanically molesting children. Nevertheless, according to Mara Leverett, author of Devil's Knot, the true story of the West Memphis Three, one of the most famous books about this case, by the late 1980s, interest in the suspected prevalence of satanic ritual abuse, or SRA, had grown so intense in the United States that the subject was discussed in

settings as diverse as psychological conferences, religious tent revivals, police training seminars, Ms. Magazine, and television talk shows. Fantasy role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons, as well as certain kinds of rock and roll music, especially heavy metal, were described as gateways to a dark world that could lead to ritual abuse. At worst, specialists in the new field of SRA warned teenagers who started out innocently playing with Ouija board or reading books on paganism and magic could be drawn into rights involving the use of dangerous symbols and from there, endovandalism, animal mutilations,

ritualistic abuse of children, and suicide or even murder. 1991, the FBI actually looked into national records to determine how prevalent cults and human sacrifice were, and a specialist concluded, After all the hype and hysteria is put aside, the realization sets in that most satanic or a cult activity involves the commission of no crimes. And that which does usually involves the commission of relatively minor crimes such as trespassing, vandalism, cruelty to animals, or petty thievery. This fear, this intense, highly irrational, paranoid, QAnon level of crazy fear was very

much alive and well in West Memphis when the crimes of today's story took place. Juvenile probation officer, local occult expert, Jerry Driver, was all about this shit. Because Damien Nichols followed the Wicca religion, he was thought to be a devil worshiper, and the murders were clearly part of an occult ritual. Ironically, no one in today's story worship Satan. No one. Wicca was treated in court by law enforcement, expert witnesses, a fucking judge, the prosecution, as being equivalent to Satanism. If people in West Memphis would have been given pitchforks and torches, Damien and his crew would have been dead within days if not hours of being accused of the murders.

Let us now transition into the timeline of the West Memphis 3. Get ready to be infuriated. Right after today's first of two mid-show sponsor breaks. Thanks for sticking around. If you don't want to hear ads, get the entire catalog ad free by becoming a Spaceless on Patreon for five bucks a month. Wrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time-suck timeline. Damien Eccles, the man portrayed as the ringleader of the West Memphis Three, was born in West Memphis, Arkansas, December 11, 1974. His father, Joe Hutchinson, and his mom is Pamela Metcalf. He'll have one sibling, his sister Michelle, who will be born in 1977.

His last name will come from his stepfather, Andy Jack Nichols. West Memphis is the largest city in Crittenden County, Arkansas. City is located right across the Mississippi River from Memphis, Tennessee. In 2020, the population listed as 24,520, and while the town certainly has a rural feel to it, or at least did back in the 90s, also part of the metropolitan area of Memphis which is over 1.3 million people. Damien's birth name is Michael Wayne Hutchinson. He changed his name to Damien when he started Suckin' the Devil's Cock, I mean when he converted to Catholicism. According to some sources, his stepdad will say that he adopted Damien in 1986 when he

had to change his last name to Echols. And while he was doing that, he decided to change his first name to Damien because he was reading about a priest named Damien who worked with people at a leper colony for over 10 years in Hawaii before contracting and dying of leprosy himself. His sister Michelle will recall that he wanted to be a preacher or priest when he was young. Damien has been fascinated with religion his entire life, exploring different types of Christianity, Buddhism, Wicca and more. He is like a lot of you, I'm guessing, a very curious and a reverent person. And his curiosity, his daring to be different, nearly got him killed. Jesse, Miss Kelly Jr., the next West

Memphis three member, born in West Memphis, July 10th, 1975. His father, Jesse, Miss Kelly Sr., was a well-known mechanic in West Memphis, nicknamed Big Jesse because of his strength. Jesse Jr.'s mom was Betty Jo Barnes, who worked largely as a cashier. Jesse will be one of 11 kids on his dad's side and nine on his mom's side. Lot of fucking and very little birth control going on in that family tree. Jason Baldwin, the third member of the West Memphis three had known Jesse since they were in elementary school. Jason said about him as quoted by author, Mayor Leverett. He was all right. He just didn't learn quick and he didn't have much common sense either. He could be funny, but

maybe we were all laughing more at him than with him. Poor Jesse had been getting in trouble since kindergarten for fighting. His teachers consistently recommended that he see a psychologist, which he did briefly. Several psychologists will say that part of his behavioral problems were caused by his mother's abandonment. She left the family right after Jesse was born. Jesse's family was described as loving but very rough. Jesse recalled that one of his childhood memories

was fighting all the time. He explained, I had to take up for myself to let people know they couldn't run over me just because I was small. I was walking around always looking for fights because I knew they would come. I took up for a lot of people because I had a quick temper and I knew what it was like to be picked on.

I'd been picked on since I was about four or five. My brother's always picked on me and my step-sister's always picked on me. They tried to tell me what to do. He also remembered his father drinking beer like a fish every day since I was born. He still loved his father and said he was a sweet guy who would do anything for anybody. In addition to fighting, Jesse struggled a lot in school. At age seven, he still could not recite the alphabet past the letter R, and he could not count past the number 15. His IQ was estimated to be 67. That score on the most common IQ charts falls into the extremely low category, the very

bottom classification, also classified as well below average, significantly below average, or mildly impaired or delayed on other charts. Clearly, Jesse is developmentally disabled. In docs I've watched, I've heard him refer to as slow, special, and some with the mind of a seven or eight-year-old. This is important to understand, as it will be Jesse's confession that will lead to he and the other two Memphis, you know, three being convicted more than anything else. Jesse was put in special education classes where his teacher said he was sulky, disrespectful, impulsive, indifferent, stubborn, uncooperative, and prone to rage. At the age of seven, a psychologist recommended

he be hospitalized for severe behavioral problems, but his family did not have the money for that. It took him to a few counseling sessions, but it wasn't something he did regularly because, you know, again, the family could not afford to. They had a lot of other kids look after. Eight-year-old Jesse was taken into a... taken to a psychologist across the river in Memphis when he continued fighting in school. That examiner found that he was non-psychotic. The psychologist reported that Jesse feels bad about himself in his world. He sees himself as vulnerable, unable to handle the pressures which surround him, and in danger of being overwhelmed. He pulls his own hair and bites himself when agitated. He is reported

to have abused animals when he rages, and has shredded his clothes while out of control. His stepmother indicates that he will tear up anything at hand when he is angry, though both parents agree that there is little way to predict when Jesse will rage. Psychologists also wrote that Jesse's father had a bad temper and played rough with Jesse, and that included play punches hard enough to send him into a wall on the other side of the room. The psychologist recommended residential treatment for Jesse in family therapy. His family rejected the hospitalization and went to some counseling sessions but did not keep up with it. Jesse stayed in kindergarten for two years,

then second grade for two more years. By the age of 10, his estimated IQ was found to be as high as 75, which is still on the very low end of the normal range. Jesse's third grade teacher found that he did not have adequate vocabulary and could not understand written passages. It was reported that he hit a girl on the head, stabbed a boy with a pencil, and cut his hand when he punched out a car window in grade school. A juvenile judge will order another exam. After Jesse is suspended for splattering ketchup in the lunchroom, Jesse indicated that he wanted to drop out of school by middle school.

He was 16 years old by the time he reached ninth grade. He couldn't read or write past the fourth grade level and was in the lowest 4% of all students based on his IQ. Jesse did drop out of school at age 16. His final psychological evaluation before he dropped out found that he had deficits in general information, abstract and concrete reasoning, numerical reasoning, language development, word knowledge, verbal comprehension, and spatial visualization.

So he was struggling with pretty much everything academically. Jesse said he dropped out because, quote, just didn't care about it no more. He thought he would become a mechanic like his father, but his dream was to become a pro wrestler. All this info will be come relevant later when Jesse's defense accuses the police of coercing him into making a false confession. Charles Jason Baldwin. By Jason.

Born on April 11, 1977. Some sources say he was born in West Memphis. Others say he was born in a lake of fire spawned by demons. The abominable product of devil common demon pus or he was born across a river in Memphis either way he grew up in West Memphis he was born just a month before I was strange for me to imagine heaven suffered like he did for just being a weird kid who liked metal music wasn't religious and was a bit of a juvenile delinquent I was also all of those things. Uh, he was the firstborn child of Angela and Larry Baldwin.

Angela goes by Gail. Gail and Larry would divorce when Jason was a toddler and his mom would marry Terry Ray Grinnell when Jason was about four. His mom would have two other children, Larry Matthew and Terry Junior. He was raised by Gail and Terry. In his interview for the HBO documentary, Paradise Lost, Damien said he and Jason were best friends and they stayed at each other's houses often. He said they were like brothers. Their favorite things to do were snake hunting and listening to music. I also did a little snake

hunting and listened to a lot of music growing up. Their favorites were heavy metal bands like Slayer, Metallica and Megadeth. Also loved you too. So, bunch of pretty tame shit really. Jason Baldwin had no history of violence, but he did have some run-ins with the law. His criminal record included petty crimes like breaking the glass on some old cars stored in a shed and stealing a bag of M&Ms from the store. He was an average to good student and earned certificates for punctuality and attendance. Also at a soft side. On April 5th, 1993, Jason and his classmates were asked to write about a classmate

who had recently died of suicide, and Jason wrote, "'I didn't know the girl very well. "'I seen her around every now and then, "'but I knew how people that knew her feel "'because once my mother tried to commit suicide, "'and I know how I felt when that happened. "'It was pretty devastating, "'since I was the one who found her

"'and called 911 and kept her alive. "'But I am lucky lucky. My mother is well and happy now. And so am I. In every single interview or courtroom of footage I've seen of Jason, he just comes across like a good kid. Or a good dude. Quiet, laid back, tough, kind and loyal. Damien's trouble with law enforcement will start in 1992. By this point, he was 17 years old, had already dropped out of high school. He lived in the Lakeshore Estates trailer park in Marion, city 5 miles from West Memphis. Damien lived with his mom, stepfather, sister, and grandmother in a two bedroom trailer in a trailer park. He was dating 15 year old Deanna Jane Holcomb, kind of.

He dated a few girls when shit went off the rails for him. Deanna's mom was off the rails for him. Deanna's mom was not a fan of him. Deanna's mom called the Marion police to report that Damien was threatening Deanna in 1992. When she spoke to police, Deanna said that Damien had been harassing her and a male friend. She said that Damien threatened to kill the other boy, quote, and dump him in the front yard of her house, and then come back and take care of her and then burn the house down. You know, he definitely was a troubled youth for a while.

Deanna's family also accused Damien of trying to get Deanna involved with Black magic because he loved drawing pentagrams, demons, monsters and such. And you know what? A lot of kids do. I used to draw that same shit sometimes. Fascinated with what I was told was taboo. It was fun to shock classmates who were scared of that shit. I didn't know anything about what the symbols actually meant. Damien clearly is not thinking about being a priest

anymore by 92. He's gone full goth. You know, he's weird, not a lot of his classmates. Social workers were aware of troubles within Damien's family by now. On May 5, 1992, a mental health worker visited the family and concluded that Damien and his sister Michelle both needed help. His mom, Pam, was 20 years younger than than her husband Andy, Jack Eccles, who adopted Damien and his sister. Damien told the case worker that he broke up with Gianna at the insistence of her parents. Within a month of the first incident, Gianna's mother called the police to report that Gianna though was seen damien again, and an officer now warned Damien to stay away from her. Six days later, Gianna's mom called the police a third time to report that her daughter had

run away. Officers went to Lakeshore Estates, found the two teens hiding out in an uninhabited trailer partially nude from the waist down, and convicted both of finger banging. Uh, felony finger banging. Uh, no, uh, Jason Baldwin was with them. Damien and Deanna acknowledged that they planned to run away, but they didn't own a car, so they waited out the storm in the trailer. They were charged with burglary and sexual misconduct. Come on, why charge it with anything? There were a couple of teens fooling around in an abandoned

trailer. How about file that under who gives a shit? Right? That's what teens are supposed to do. I'm sure they would have loved to get their fuck on in their own home, but you know, they didn't have those things yet. They were living with parental cock blockers. Also, did Deanna have a problem with Damien or did Deanna's parents have a problem with Damien? Did they just not want their daughter dating the weird kid? Someone from the county juvenile office requested to search Damien's room at home now and they discovered notebooks with Damien's writings and drawings, which will be later used against him in the murder case. You know, he wrote some spooky horror fiction. Oh, no! He scribbled down pentagrams. Who gives a shit? Has anyone ever scribbled down some pentagrams and then everyone around them just fucking burst into flames and died? No.

Did the weird kid who got picked on all the time also write about wanting to kill some other kids? Yeah, he did. And if I was him, I would have probably done that shit too. He was venting, journaling, using his creativity as an escape and outlet for his understandable anger. Of course he wrote about shit like that. I would hate of my classmates too if I was him and getting constantly fucked with for being different, which he was. Deanna was released into her parents' custody, but Damien was now held in a juvenile detention

center. Rumors now spread around school and the neighborhoods that he and Deanna were planning to have a baby so they could sacrifice the baby in a satanic ritual. Totally unfounded rumors. At most, Damien and Diana made some dark jokes. Or people just lied and said they wanted to do this. I don't know about your high school, but my high school was a constant over-the-top rumor mill.

Kids got accused of wild shit all the time. Crazy stuff. One of many examples. There was this one kid who lived ways outside of town in this beat up trailer with no running water from what I understood. And there was sheep on the property and he smelled bad, smelled bad and he was like shy and just, I don't know, just socially, just off. And what did kids start saying about him? That he was in bread and then he fucked his sister and then he fucked those sheep. Did anyone ever see him fuck a sister or a sheep?

Nope. They had social workers to my knowledge ever come to his house because there was evidence of this. No, he's just different. And he got picked on a lot. And people lied about him a lot. They lied so much that I hate to admit it, but I believed the lies. I didn't even question where the rumors came from when I was in school, right? People just said it and I believed it. I legitimately thought he was some sister and sheep fucker. Looking back, I don't think that at all. I think his family was

just especially poor and he probably had a learning disability and I think that we were fucking assholes who didn't understand what he was going through and some of us just started making up mean shit for easy laughs and then that mean shit became part of his supposedly true story which is fucking terrible. I think with Damien because he was different because he liked to shock people because he was dealing with mental illness as we will learn I think people around me just made up all kinds of rumors about him and those rumors just became accepted truth. County juvenile officer Jerry Driver heard some of these satanic rumors and then contacted a psychiatric hospital in Little Rock. Oh, Jerry. Jerry shows up a lot.

In the 2012 documentary produced by Lord of the Rings director Peter Jackson and others west of Memphis. And Jerry does not come across as a real learned man. He comes across as a paranoid idiot. He also appears to have little wrists and suspect interpupillary distance. It's like a guy who gets dick-mogged a lot. Definitely gets muscle-mogged by any brads or chads with decent pecs. Maybe an angry incel. I don't know. Jerry was way into satanic panic stuff. He watched videos sent to the law enforcement members at the time about how to identify signs of satanic ritual abuse. He was convinced before he even met Damien that bloodthirsty Satanists were fucking crawling all over West Memphis.

Somebody told me that Jerry was a big QAnon or Pizza Gate guy or had been part of the January 6th insurrectionist. I would not be shocked at all. Mara Leverett, an expert on the West Memphis 3 and an investigative reporter focused on Arkansas who is a member of the Arkansas Writers Hall of Fame, wrote, Though the occult would remain a vague term, a belief that occult or satanic activities were dangerously afoot in the county was already well established among some law enforcement officials by the time the murders occurred.

That belief could be attributed to the efforts of Jerry Driver, a county juvenile officer who was seen by police as the local expert on how the occult and crime converged. So sad, this guy was not an expert. This guy wasn't actually, you know, formally educated on anything related to the occult. He's just a fucking dude. He watched a lot of shitty videos and read some poorly written books, books like Michelle remembers and Satan's Underground. And now he is an expert in things he actually had no clue about. Damien told Driver, while he was in Juvia, that he believed in Wicca and worshipped goddesses.

And that was not a good call. Now instead of just accepting that Damien had an interest in Wicca, who gives a shit, well Driver comes to the conclusion that Damien's a leader of A group dedicated to a cult related activity. He's a Satanist Wicca is a modern-day nature based pagan religion that originated in England in the mid 20th century It's influenced by pre-christian beliefs and practices is based on traditions from northern and western Europe and has nothing I can't stress that enough Nothing to do with Satan

Nothing. I can't stress that enough. Nothing to do with Satan. Wiccans don't even recognize the concept of Satan. The concept of a Christian devil has literally zero place in their belief system. But Wiccans get accused of being satanic all the time by certain Christian fundamentalist groups who think that anything pagan is fundamentally satanic. Bill Gotthard's focus on the family, for example, the religious and educational institution we learned about in the Duggar episode, where all my used bicycle talk comes from. Here's what they say about the link between Wicca and Satanism in an article on their website

right now called The Hidden Traps of Wicca. Many Wiccans say that Wicca is harmless and nature-loving, that it has nothing to do with evil, Satanism, and dark forces. But that is exactly what Satan wants them to believe. Intent on deceit Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light, says the Apostle Paul. It is not surprising then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Right? Just a fucking casual link there. Oh yeah, no, you think it's harmless?

No, it's Satanic. While Damien was still in juvie in this juvenile facility, Jerry Driver contacts a consultant, some other wackadoodle, not named, who gave lectures on crime and the occult. Well, the consultant comes to West Memphis with photos of graffiti and other cold paraphernalia. Driver thinks it's similar to various symbols he's seen in the county. Jerry believes cold related activity is escalating now in

Crittenden County. He's heard rumors that bad things are gonna happen This is all paranoia Nothing's fucking happening No later arrest will confirm his satanic panic suspicions other than the fucking misguided West Memphis 3 arrests You know some goth kid doesn't want to worship Jesus and draws pentagrams and that's enough for Jerabare to lose his shit Some psychiatrists of the facility who assessed Damien, people more educated than Jerry Driver, noted that he said he was not involved in Satanism

and was involved with witchcraft. But Jerry wasn't frankly smart enough to discern the difference between Satanism and witchcraft. Also, most forms of Satanism are harmless, right? At least in the secular world they are. When it comes to how spiritually damaging they may or may not be Well, that's gonna depend on your faith, but in this world in terms of real concrete earthly actions There's no evidence that this belief system predisposes you towards committing violent crimes or killing fucking babies all willy-nilly

It does predispose you to riling up certain Christians and getting a lot of shit for your beliefs in certain places. Damien was diagnosed with major depression in this facility. One examiner raised the possibility of bipolar disorder. His immediate problems were listed as extreme physical aggression towards others, suicidal ideation, and intent, depressed mood and bizarre and unusual thinking. Damien will be hospitalized for three weeks until he's no longer considered a danger to himself or others. He's prescribed any depressants and then he leaves at a facility. He will not be forgotten about by Jerry Driver. Driver worries that Nichols is a fucking time bomb.

One of Satan's minions about to do something unforgivable to please his dark master. I bet Jerry is a huge Striper fan. To help with the devil. Jerry has some of their concertes in his closet. July of 1992, Damien and his sister moved with their mom to Aloha, Oregon, an outer suburb of Portland. I'm sure he thought about this many times later while he was incarcerated about how he wanted, wished he would have stayed there. She'd reunited with the kid's biological father, Joe Hutchinson, mom and dad back together. Damien starts working

at a BP gas station managed by his dad. Officer Jerry Driver is so fucking worried about Damien, he asks juvenile authorities in Oregon to closely supervise him while he is still on probation. You gotta keep an eye on Satan's minion, boys. He's a level 5 demon zombie, 100% in the league with Beelzebub. You need to take a quick baby count. This is a must. This is very important.

You need to know exactly how many babies live within a 20 mile radius of Damien at all times. Also, how many women are pregnant and about to have babies? That's another must. Take a few hours, go to all the local area hospitals, ask them to send you a baby headcount every day. You can't not do this. Whenever you see any babies in public, you need to take their pictures, ask their parents for their names, create dossiers on all the local babies. Would it be possible to recruit any little people? That's informants. I can't recommend this enough. It's imperative. Hire some little people as informants. I can't recommend this enough.

It's imperative. Hire some little people as part of an undercover operation where they will infiltrate local daycares pretending to be babies. You need to know what your local babies are talking about. Oh, and virgins. My God, I almost forgot. You have to find out what women in your area are virgins. That's a must.

They're not safe. Do you have the power to conduct mandatory hymen checks on women in your area are virgins. That's a must. They're not safe. Do you have the power to conduct mandatory Hyman checks on females in your area? Can you open up some fake women's wellness centers where you can have officers pretend to be OBGYNs? Have all the crypts in your cemeteries checked for portals to hell as well? That's a must.

You have to do that. Have you done that yet? You know what? There's just too much to discuss over the phone I'm gonna need to fly out run some satanic surveillance on the ground out there. It's another must. It's a non-negotiable It's fucking driver idiot tells the counselor that Damien his associates are involved satanical. There's no fucking evidence of that Well, that's the he just keeps he just keeps telling everybody who will listen to him He said the Damien his girlfriend were put in psychiatric hospital Damien threatened to kill his girlfriend's parents

Damien say was a witch Damien was planning to sacrifice a child His parents were suspected of being involved in the same satanic cult The counselor visited the family wrote that Pam and Joe said that they had zero problems with Damien Not a lot of Satan stuff going on. He was a good kid. Damien reported that he was working at the gas station full time. Uh, so he didn't have any current hobbies or interests. Uh, he denied being involved in a satanic cult and was super fucking annoyed about Jerry drivers, continual accusations. He admitted that his religious beliefs centered around witchcraft, but distinguished

that or tried to, to people from Satanism. He acknowledged that he in the past did have a suicide pack with his girlfriend. If authorities or her parents kept trying to keep them apart, but after being hospitalized, that was over. No longer wanted to hurt himself or anyone else. He's on his meds now. Damien's strongly denied threatening to kill Deanna's parents. Oregon authorities recommended minimum supervision for Damien until December 11, 1992, when he returned 18, which was still several months away. Two days later, Jerry Driver, a fucking Jerry Driver, sends a letter informing Oregon officials

that Damien is trying to get in touch with Deanna, which has violated the terms of his probation and he wants him arrested. He doesn't receive a response. What if the Oregon authorities had learned to just no longer take Driver too seriously? What is the deal with that dude? Fuck, and Satan this and Satan that. Got some paranoid weirdos out in West Memphis. Damien, however, he would be dealing with some shit here.

Within two months of turning 18, Damien's parents do call the local police on him and Oregon. They report that they're afraid he's going to hurt himself for them. He's had another episode. He's arrested, taken to a hospital. Damien denied experiencing hallucinations or delusions. Denied his parents' statement that he was into Satanism or devil worship. They're convinced now. Also denies threatening to cut his mother's throat. However, the physician who examines him notes that he does admit he had made verbal threats against his father. He's admitted to a psychiatric ward and is placed under

suicide watch. Damien gives an interview with hospital staff who conclude he comes from a very troubled, very dysfunctional family. Pam said that she and Joe no longer want Damien because of the threats. He spends two days in the hospital after that the staff no longer consider him a threat but aren't sure where to send him. His family doesn't want to take him back home. Damien wants to go back to Arkansas, but he's still a minor, not for long but still. His physician writes that plans for his emancipation and return to Arkansas seem reasonable to him and that Damien planned to live with his stepfather Jack Eccles. The hospital notifies Oregon juvenile officials who notify, unfortunately, fucking Jerry Driver.

Dipshit Driver now submits an affidavit stating that Damien has violated his probation by making threats moving out of his parents home and returning to Arkansas He requests that the prosecutor revoke his probation and that request is granted Oregon juvenile officials will ignore his suggestion, but This guy is such a fucking hard on for this kid When Damien shows back up in Arkansas. He is immediately arrested upon his return and sent back to juvie Damien is very angry about this. Few hours after he arrives at the detention center, he is sitting in the wreck area with

some other teens and he has a bit of a breakdown. And he does do some weird shit. The director's report records the following incident. One of the boys who had scraped his arm a little and it was bleeding some. Without warning, Damien grabbed the arm that was bleeding and began to suck the blood from it. The boys all stated he had been saying he had not taken his medication the night before, and he was about to go off on them. Damien was asked why he did this and he stated, I don't know. He also told staff he had threatened to kill his father and eat him.

The director concludes that Damien needs mental health treatment. Yeah. He returned to the psychiatric hospital for two weeks, gets more treatment, gets more meds, and then is released at the end of September 1992. Well, all of this makes Jerry, of course, that much more suspicious of Damien. He's very worried about what Damien is going to do soon in the West Memphis area. Damien now moves back to Marion, just outside of West Memphis to live with his stepdad. Officer Driver is required to come to his office or requires him to come into his office at least once a week to chat. I bet Damien loved that. So Damien been doing any

babysitting I should be aware of. How many babies did you see this week? Do you know anyone who is pregnant? Had any chats I should know about with your dark lord and master Satan or any of his demonic minions this week Damien now has to follow curfew enroll in vocational tech school obtain his GED and listen to striper non-stop on loop You don't have to listen striper Yes, do the other stuff by the end of December just 10 after turning 18, Damien has his GED and has satisfied the conditions of his juvenile probation, but they're still keeping close eye on him. And I'm not saying he's not, you know, troubled. He is troubled.

But, you know, that isn't a quate to be in a murder. Around this time, he is also starting to date 16-year-old Dominique Tier, who lived in the nearby Lake Shore Estates. He got a part-time job at the Roofing Company, and went to appointments at the local mental health center. Over time, Damien opened up more to his therapist. Damien said that at the hospital he was told he could be another Charles Manson or Ted Bundy. He told his therapist he hated the human race and said local police were constantly harassing him because they believed he was some kind of satanic leader. Fuckin' Jerry. In a session on January 25, 1993, Damien tells his therapist

that he has obtained power by drinking the blood of a sexual partner. Uh, so yeah, he is into some weird shit. Some Aleister Crowley sex magic type shit. Now he's definitely doing and saying things that, you know, we're freaking a lot of people out in West Memphis. But again, this is not evidence of him being a brutal child killer. And now, before I share the details of the killings, time for our second mid-show sponsor break.

I'm back. Now I'll share the fateful events from May 5, 1993. Four months later, at 6 p.m., May 5, 1993, eight-year-old friends Christopher Byers, Michael Moore, and Stevie Brinch are seeing riding their bikes on North 14th Street in West Memphis. Christopher Mark Byers, born June 23, 1994, in Memphis, Tennessee. He lived with his mom, Melissa Byers, and his stepdad, John Mark Byers. James Michael Moore, born on July 27, 1994, in Key West, Florida, lived with his parents

Todd and Dana Moore. Stevie, Steve, uh, Steve Edward Branch was born on November 26th, 1934 in Blytheville, Arkansas, live with his mom, Pamela Hobbs, and his stepfather, Terry Hobbs. Terry fucking Hobbs. Remember his name. Uh, gonna have a lot to say about him before we wrap up. All three of these boys were in the Cub Scouts together. They liked swimming, riding their their bikes playing in the woods together

8 p.m. Still on May 5th John Mark Byers now calls the West Memphis police to report that his steps on Christopher is missing An officer comes to interview him 10 minutes later John Mark and his wife Melissa Byers tell the patrol officer that they last saw Chris at 5 30 p.m. When they were working in the yard Remember that time they saw him 5 30 p.m. Chris at 5.30pm when they were working in the yard. Remember that time, they saw him. 5.30pm. By 8.30pm, the officer was searched in a wooded area called Robin Hood Hills and slash Robin Hood Woods, informal name, where Christopher sometimes played with his friends. Robin Hood Hills Woods, described as a mosquito-infested four-acre woods near

Interstate 40 where neighborhood children would sometimes play. At 840 PM, May 5th, the West Memphis police received reports that a bleeding man entered the local Bojangles about 30 minutes earlier and went into the women's restroom. Praise Bojangles. So glad he was strong enough to survive a fully grown man fully entering him. That's wrong Bojangles. Talking about the fast food franchise now. Officer Regina Meek arrived at 850, question manager Marty King to the drive-through window. King said the man was black, wearing a white cap, black pants, blue shirt, shoes were muddy, had blood on his face and arm, and appeared to be mentally disoriented. He left the restaurant minutes before Officer Meek got there.

Excuse me, the boys then found blood smeared on the wall of the women's bathroom. Officer Meek left at 9.01 PM without bothering to ever enter the restaurants. A sample of the blood found inside will later be gathered but will never be tested. Could this man have been the killer? Around 9.24 PM Officer Meek responded to a call from Dana Mornau, reporting her son Michael is missing. Dana lived across from the buyer's family. She saw Michael ride his bike with Stevie and Christopher but lost sight of them.

She sent her daughter after them, but when he didn't return for dinner, she couldn't find them. Yeah, she sent her daughter after them when he didn't return for dinner, but her daughter couldn't find them. Later that night, Pamela Hobbs reported her son Stevie Branch missing. She had been at work that evening. Terry Hobbs, Stevie's stepdad, doesn't report shit, even though he'd been off work for hours. Pamela said she hadn't seen Stevie since he

left for school that morning. Between 9.30, 10.00 p.m., woman named Narlene Hollingsworth reported Damien Echols and Dominique, his girlfriend who lived nearby, walking near the Blue Beacon truck wash on the edge of Robin Hood Hills. They both had mud on their pants. Prosecutors would later argue that the three boys were killed during this time frame. Prosecutors will also argue that Narlene must have mistaken Jason Baldwin for Domini, even though the two look fucking nothing like each other. Narlene and various other family members will claim to see the murder victims at different times, at different days, at different locations. They'll claim all kinds of shits that they saw when they were all together that will conflict massively. Narlene also said she saw Jesse McKelley, Ms. Kelly

at 6.30pm the night of the murders, which is probably closer to the time when they were actually killed. Jesse was supposed to be with Damien and Jason when they killed the kids. This kind of fucks that up. I should add where the kids are killed is near this big truck stop gas station and this trailer park Where there were loads of kids Damien, Jason, Jesse, dozens of other kids are all around this place all the time So it'd be weird to see any of these people here. On the night of May 5th The officer who took the report for Stevie searched the woods for half an hour, but didn't see anything And that was all the searching that will happen by law enforcement that night. Some of the kids' family and friends will canvas the area a bit, but after dark, most

people tend to give up and they'll start again in the morning. Following day, May 6, 1993, the bodies of Christopher Byers, Stevie Branch, Michael Moore, will be found in Robin Hood Hills. At 6 a.m., West Memphis PD Chief Inspector Gary Glitchell announced that the three boys were missing and that he would lead search efforts for them. By noon, most of the searchers left the woods to go to other places. Steve Jones, a juvenile officer and the assistant of officer Jerry F***ing Driver, remained in the woods. He looked down at Gully, saw a black tennis shoe floating in the water of a drainage ditch.

First body will be found at 1.45 p.m. Sergeant Mike Allen will get in the water first when he lifts his shoe, or this shoe, the muck beneath his shoe, or sorry, his shoe, the muck beneath his shoe made a sucking, reluctant sound, then a pale form began to rise in the water. Slowly before the horrified officer's eyes, a child's naked body, arched grotesquely backward, rose to the surface. This first victim found is Michael Moore. Detective Bryn Ridge found the body of Stevie Branch next, and then Christopher Byers is found last. The boys are naked, their hands and feet have been bound with shoelaces, and they've been beaten, and Chris Byers' genitals have been mutilated. This mutilation will

be another big focal point in the murder trial. Right? And then years later, half a dozen forensic experts, all of them way more qualified than the one who initially worked his case, will independently come to the same conclusion that Chris was not the victim of sexual mutilation. At the very least, not nearly to the level that they believed, not exactly turtles, some fucking turtles, snacked on his dick and balls after he was dead. Seriously, I will explain that much more later. But it feels important to mention now, I cannot stress enough how the initial investigators completely fucked their entire investigation by totally misreading this crime scene. They were thinking emotionally and not logically.

They built a story in their heads of what happened, proceeded to employ a lot of cognitive dissonance to force future details to corroborate to this narrative they fucking came up with in their heads, and anything that didn't conform to their made-up story would just be ignored. The initial work of these investigators should be used to teach other investigators what not to do. Investigators took note of these details as summarized by Mara Leverett. Why had one of the boys been castrated? How to account for the absence of blood? Why did the banks of the stream look swept clean well Jerry driver who is there right after these bodies are found?

Immediately states he thinks they need to look into Damien Eccles. He's certain. This is Damien's work. It has to be him fucking Jerry And this completely just you know Becomes the narrative now right from the very The coroner arrives at 4 p.m. pronounces all three boys dead. Dr. Frank Peretti, the medical examiner, will later testify that the boys were likely murdered between 1 and 5 a.m. on May 6, the 1 a.m. and 5 a.m. Boys had, which is probably not true, boys had multiple severe injuries according to oxygen. The side of Branch's face was ripped apart and biogenitals were so badly mutilated

he was essentially castrated. They had scratches, bite marks, and possible stab wounds on their bodies. Chris died of multiple injuries. Michael and Stevie died of multiple injuries with drowning. Later that day, the West Memphis PD sends Detective, uh, Burn Ridge and Sergeant Mike Allen to collect blood scrapings from the wall at the Bojangles restaurant. But no additional interviews are conducted. And again, these scrapings will never be examined.

Uh, why would they be? Right? They knew who did it. Damien Eccles. Inspector Glitchell told reporters that they were investigating the possibility that the murders were connected to cult activity. Rumors were already circulating that the murders were committed by devil worshipers. Rumors started by Jerry Driver. Right here we go. Jerry and the rest of this lot exact same brains as members of

a medieval mob carrying pitchforks and torches headed to grab some witches and have them burned at the stake. Burn the witch! This is truly modern day witch hunt. It's begun. A literal witch hunt since Damien is wicked. Next day, May 7, Damien Eccles, questioned by juvenile officer Steve Jones and Lieutenant James Sudbury. Notes, no notes are taken. Damien will be questioned three times between May 7th and May 10th, twice at his home, once at the police station.

To all the officers, he spent the evening of May 5th at home with his mom and spoke on the phone with two girlfriends in Memphis. One of the officers wrote to Damien, likes to read books by Stephen King and has evil across his left knuckles. Oh man, he reads Stephen King books! He must have done it! It's fucking 1993, what kind of dorks aren't reading Stephen King? May 8th, Detective Bill Durham and Investigator Shane Griffith questioned Damien Eccles and Jason

Baldwin. They told the detectives they had never heard of the three boys who were killed. Best Gators took note of the fact that Jason also has the word evil tattooed on his knuckles. Clearly a member of Damien's satanic cult. Damien was interviewed by Lieutenant Sudbury and Detective Byrne Ridge, May 10th, without his lawyer present. He took a polygraph administered by Detective Bill Durham. Detective Byrneridge wrote the Durham, reported the Damien had been untruthful, and according to the polygraph, was involved in the murders. Polygraphs are notoriously unreliable.

All that test determined was that Damien, who again is mentally ill, was fucking nervous. Would you be nervous if the police had now interviewed you three times in four days because you're a suspect for the murder of three boys? Police who you know hate you, who think you're satanic, who you know want you to have done it, they want to arrest you, are actively trying to pin this on you. I'd be nervous. I'd be nervous as fuck.

May 12, 1993, the police questioned Damien's mother Pam Eccles. She says Damien was at home on the night of the murders. She was there. He was playing video games with another kid, spoke to two girls who lived in Memphis on the phone. One of those girls will speak with police and corroborate this alibi. The cops will ignore this and will ignore all other alibis from the suspects. Around this time, a local waitress and volunteer detective named Vicki Hutchinson will get involved in this case and really fuck it up some more. Vicki, 29 or 30 years old at the time, she's conducting her own investigation.

She's not qualified to do this. Her son, Erin, was friends with the victims and Vicki will now throw a lot of fuel and the Damian did it fire with a bunch of lies. And she will lie so, so much. One of Vicki's neighbors was 17-year-old Jesse Miss Kelly. He occasionally babysat her kids and cut her grass. According to Vicki, after the bodies were found, Jesse told her that on the morning of the disappearance, he saw some boys who fit the victim's descriptions walking near the Blue Beacon Truck Wash, which is by the little stretch of woods, like right next to it.

However, it couldn't have been them because all three boys were at school the day of the murders. So he didn't see that he's mistaken. Still, Vicki keeps talking to Jesse and eventually he tells her about his friend Damien, who, quote, drank blood and stuff. She immediately is super suspicious. Who is this blood drinker? Right.

She's already heard fucking rumors about satanic involvement. This kid sounds like somebody who probably sacrifices kids to the devil. Well, she now thinks her connection with Jesse will give her an opportunity to learn more about Damien. Vicki is then told that the police, uh, you know, well, sorry, I already said that Vicki has been told the police think the murders are cult related, but she's already heard that Vicki's been told the police think the murders are cult related But she's already heard like rumor mills about this with permission from the police Vicki asked Jesse to arrange an introduction with Damien Telling Jesse she thought Damien was hot wanted to go out with him

Soon Jesse brings Damien to Vicki's house and introduces the two May 27th, so she's just doing her own undercover work now. May 27th, 1990, which is fucking weird. May 27, 1993, Vicky Hutchison speaks to police, tells them about evidence that suggests Damien and Jesse are involved in cold activities and the three murders, based on just fucking nonsense. Vicky's eight-year-old son, Aaron, told the police that he often went to Robin Hood with the three murdered boys and that sometimes they saw five men sitting in a circle singing songs to the devil and doing what men and ladies do. He did not see this. His mom got him all worked up. He'll recant all of this years later. They both will. Years later, Vicki will tearfully break down when being interviewed for a documentary and profusely apologize for lying about so much shit.

Jerry Driver had spoken to her before she met Damien, had fueled her satanic panic leanings and heavily pressured her to tell him and other officers What they wanted to hear. I'll have more details about that later The following are some key quotes from Vicky's son Aaron in his May 27th interview Aaron talked to Detective Byrne Ridge and Inspector Glitchell and these detectives know better than the detectives who interviewed kids related to the McMartin preschool bullshit investigation no better than the detectives who interviewed kids related to the McMartin preschool bullshit investigation. Aaron said that on the day of the murders his friends asked his mom if he could come to Michael's house to play at their clubhouse.

He said that they sometimes would go to Robin Hood Woods together. When asked what they did there, he said we played and added and then sometimes we'd watch his men. He said the men were doing nasty stuff and explained that it was what men and women do. He claimed that they had seen the men about five times, but they always hid when they saw them. Also said that he had seen one of the men at the local market. Aaron was asked if they were wearing any jewelry. He said there was a skull commander he had on a necklace

of skulls and there was a snake in its eye. Okay. Earlier Vicki had mentioned dependent Erin to Damien Leatherhouse, which was a skull with a snake through the eyes. Erin said that Chris and Michael went down to watch those men on a Wednesday. He was going to go with them, but his mom didn't let him go. He said, I think they was watching them men like, like we always did. And they got caught and they never told the men and the men sort of killed them. Following comes from Vicky Hutchinson statement the following day, May 28.

I think that's the following day. Sorry, I can't remember the date I said a little bit ago. It doesn't matter, whatever I said it was. Vicki said that she picked Erin up from school 3 p.m. May 5th. At 3.15, Michael Moran Christopher Byers came to her vehicle with Erin and told her there was a Cub Scout thing that Erin needed to attend. Michael's father was the troop leader. Michael was really incessant upon Erin going, but Vicki told him Cub Scouts was on Thursdays

and it was Wednesday. She thought they just wanted to go out and play together. Michael asked if Erin could come over to his house, but Vicki said no because she had some errands to run. She and Erin went home, been to the grocery store. They picked up food, got home about 8 o'clock. She'll read a news story about the missing boys following morning. She then went to see Todd, Dana Moore.

Dana asked her if Erin might know anything. Vicki pulled Erin out of school so he could talk to him But Aaron said he didn't know where they were Vicki said she could tell that Aaron was lying about something after they left. He told her they should go to the clubhouse Vicki knew where it was because she had been there to look for Aaron when he didn't come home on time She described it as some kind of abandoned deer stamped She tried to go to the clubhouse the mid-afternoon, but the whole area had now been taped off. She sent Erin away to stay with her sister for eight days now

to get away from media attention and to free her up so she can work her investigation. During these eight days, she starts talking to Jesse Miskelly. As mentioned, Jesse tells her that he thought he saw Chris Byers by the Blue Beacon truck wash on the morning that the bodies were found. She kept talking to him to see what else he knew. And he mentioned his friend Damien. Vicki went to Lakeshore Estates to look around, told Jesse that she saw Damien and thought

he was hot and wanted to go out with him. She asked Jesse to set her up with Damien. First time she meets Damien, he comes to her house. Vicki said, we talked about lots of different stuff. He's not real talkative. You kind of have to pull things out of him. he kept telling me about the boys murders and now he had been he never said question He always said that I was accused for eight hours I was accused of killing those three little boys and I said, you know, I just acted like it was no big deal

But I didn't even know what Vicky asked him why they would question him. She told the officers and he just looked at me I mean just really weird and said because I'm evil. She said Damien did not deny killing the boys, but did not admit to it either. And she's lying here. He absolutely denied it. He also said, never said he was evil. Again, she'll recant a lot of this stuff later.

Damien called and said he wanted to see her again and he continued coming over to the house of Jerry Driver's fucking puppet According to Vicki while she was still communicating with the police She got some satanic books put them out where Damien could see them told Damien. She was interested in witchcraft and wicca He invited her to go to an espad now which is a gathering of witches She won't say this until years after he's been sent to prison, but she'll admit that Damien didn't give a shit about her satanic books Didn't even comment on it. She said Damien picked her up May 19th in a red Ford Escort. Jesse Miss Kelly was with him. It was dark by the time they got to a field near

Marion. There was a group of around 10 teenagers there. Vicki said their faces and arms were painted black. She and Damien stood apart from the group, watched as the teenagers removed their clothes and began to touch one another. Hello, weird orgy. She wanted to leave, so Damien agreed to take her, and Jesse stayed behind. Maybe he got his fuck on. Following day, Damien calls her, tells her that one of his five girlfriends is pregnant, he's a bit of a player. Said that they would have to cool it and keep it down. Well, this pregnancy will result in the birth of Damien's son Damien Tyr, September 12, 1993. Mother is his girlfriend, Dominic Tyr.

Vicki thought that this could be, would be the end of it, but Damien continues to call her. Vicki claims he asked her about men at her house because she had a boyfriend who came over often. She came in one day, she and her boyfriend were watching a movie together around 3 30 a.m. or p.m. not specified, but I'm guessing a.m. She heard a loud noise. They went to the door, found a board that she had used as a.m. or p.m. not specified but I'm guessing a.m. She heard a loud noise they went to the door found a board that she had used as

a plant stand broken in half. When she spoke to Damien next she asked him if he came to her house and he responded that he knew she was with Jim her boyfriend so okay has a jealous streak. After discussing her alleged relationship with Damien she started talking about what her son claimed he witnessed in Robin Hood Woods. Vicki, Aaron told me that he and Michael and Chris visited their clubhouse every day and rode their bikes and they were spying on five men. And I asked him who they were and he said, I don't know, mom. I said, why would you be spying on five men, you know?

And he said, well, they were there every day, so we would watch them. And I said, what made you interested in them? He said, because they paint themselves and they have dragon shirts and they talk in Spanish. Oh, I'm sorry. What was that dragon Spanish? A big question how he knew they were speaking Spanish. He said, well, I don't understand what they're saying.

And they sing bad things. He said, they sing about the devil and you know that we love the devil. Aaron told her that when he first saw the group of men, they sat around a fire and sang a song and danced around a tree. The boys hid so men couldn't see them. The men took their clothes off and had sex with each other. Vicki said she believed Aaron was telling the truth and that no one could have told him this story.

What is interesting about this, Aaron may have seen something like what he's describing here on certain days. Might have seen some dudes having sex with one another But the men he might have seen could have been Terry Hobbs and some of his friends Not Damian his friends once we get to the trial. I will lay out my suspicions about Terry Which includes some possible rendezvous in the woods here most of them based on evidence presented in the West Memphis West of Memphis documentary Vicky takes a polygraph June 2nd.

Her results indicate she's telling the truth. But again, these tests notoriously unreliable. Please pick up Jesse Miskeli for questioning on the morning of June 3rd, 1993, please tell him there's a $35,000 reward for info leading to the convictions of the killers. Jesse initially denies participating in any satanic rituals or the murders, but Detective Bill Durham told another West Memphis officer he strongly felt Jesse was quote line his ass off.

After hours of questioning by Inspector Gary Gitchell and Detective Byrne Ridge, questioning full of so many leading questions, where the detectives are feeding this developmentally you know handicapped teen tons of fucking crime details and basically then adding, right? I mean, that could have happened. Correct. Only then does Jesse confess that he, Jason, and Damien committed the murders. It's an infuriating confession when you listen to some of the footage. Despite being fed the narrative, investigators wanted him to pair it back to them. There are still a lot of problems with the statement.

First, he said the boys were killed early in the day, but investigators believed they were killed at night. Strongly. Remember earlier, John Mark Byers and his wife Melissa said they saw their son Chris at 5.30 that night. There will be other witnesses who saw Chris and his friends riding their bikes at 6.30. So they were still alive by 6.30 p.m., just not killed earlier in the day. Jesse also said they were tied up with rope, but they were tied up with shoelaces.

Also, these investigators coached Jesse for up to five hours before they started to record his confession. In his recording confession, Jesse said that he was in Robin Hood woods with Damien and Jason. He saw Damien hit Chris Byers in the head, quote, with his fist and bruised him all up real bad. And then Jason turned around and hit Steve Branch. Then the other one took off. Michael Moore took off running.

So I chased him and grabbed him and hold him until they got there. And then Jason turned around and hit Steve Branch. Then the other one took off. Michael Moore took off running. So I chased him and grabbed him and hold him until they got there and then I left. He said when he returned minutes later, all the boys clothing was removed and they were tied up. Jesse said, then they tied them up, tied their hands up. We started screwing them and stuff, cutting them and stuff. And I saw it and turned around and looked and then I took off running.

I went home and they called me and asked me, how come I didn't stay? I told them I just couldn't. This doesn't sound like reality. Jesse said the children were beaten with a club and stabbed with a knife. He said that one of the boys was raped. Another was sexually mutilated as part of a cult ritual. How would he know that mutilation detail? Well, investigators told him. Also, autopsies will confirm that none of the boys were raped. They told him essentially they wanted him wanted him You know what to say for hours before they taped, you know any confession again Years later Jesse will say the following about his interview with Gitchell and Ridge. I kept telling inspector Gitchell and detective Ridge I didn't know who did it. I just knew of it. Well, my friend had told me but they kept hollering at me

They kept saying they knew I had something to do with it because other people had told them. And after I told them what the three boys were wearing, Gary Gisle told me it was any of them tied up. That's when I went along with him. I repeated what he told me. I said, yes, they were tied up. He asked, what was they tied up with? I told him a rope. He got mad. He told me, God damn it, Jesse, don't mess with me. He said, no, they was tied up with shoestrings. I had to go through the story again until I got it right. They hollered at me until I got it right. So whatever he was telling me, I started telling him back. But I figured something was wrong, because if I had killed him, I'd have known how I

done it. Jesus Christ. Here are more details from Jesse's chorus confession. Jesse said that Jason had a knife and cut one of the boys in the face and another boy was cut at the bottom. He confirmed that Chris Byers was cut on his genitals. In his record as David, he said he was in the woods around noon and that the boys skipped school, but this wasn't true, right?

As verified by school attendance records and witnesses. He said, Jason called him at 9 p.m. that evening. He could hear Damien shouting in the background saying, we done it, we done it. What are you going to do if somebody saw us? What are we going to do? Fuck out of here. Who was chanting? We done it, we done it.

When talking about a recent murder. Jesse explained that the three of them were playing around in the water when they saw the boys. Damien called out, hey, and they came over. Then Jesse changed his story again. Now he tells the detectives he saw one of the murders. He pointed to a picture of Chris Byers. When asked how he was killed, he said he choked him real bad and all. Jesse made another statement between 3.40 and 5.00 p.m. that was different than the

previous statement. Now he claims the murders occurred around 7.00 or 8.00 at night. It was getting dark. 9.00 p.m. Authorities go to a judge to request search warrants. Based on this confession, search the homes of Jesse Damian and Jason. Then at 3.30 p.mm. The boys are all arrested charged with three counts of capital murder despite detectives finding literally no evidence Connecting these guys with the crimes other than Jesse's confession, which you know they coached him to give 9 a.m. June 4th inspector Gitchell holds a press conference to announce the arrests when asked how confident he felt about the case on a Scala 1 to 10 he answered 11 really confident he felt about the case on a scale of 1 to 10, he answered 11. 11, really? Even though Damien had an alibi, the night of the murders, even those whereabouts between 6.30 when the boys were last seen alive and 9.00 p.m.

you know, by which parents would have been out looking for him for a while, can be accounted for as confirmed by numerous witnesses. You know, Jesse also may have had an alibi, a better one. Numerous witnesses would testify that the wrestling lover was at a regional pro wrestling match roughly 40 miles away the night of the murders. Some people posted on forums now seem to think this match might not have been on the night of the murders, but a lot of Jesse's friends would continue to insist that it was and that they were with him at that match that night. In his documentary interview, Jason Baldwin would say, the statement Jesse made to the police is is a lie. It's not true, you know?

I don't see why he would do something like that to another person. I can see where they might think I was in a cult because I wear Metallica t-shirts and stuff like that, but I know I didn't do nothing like that. I couldn't kill an animal or a person on a worship of the devil or anything like that. On a worship of God, you know, like everybody,

every normal person is around here does. June 7th, the three teens are appointed lawyers. Jesse's lawyer, Dan Stittum, said this about his client. Of course, initially, my take on the situation was that anybody who confessed to such a crime obviously did it. It was unfathomable to me that anybody would confess to a crime who had not committed it. I figured that my client was obviously guilty, and so my initial thought was that my only goal was to prepare him to testify against his co-defendants and hopefully to work the best possible plea bargain I could for him. We were hoping simply to avoid the death penalty.

Stidham told journalist Mara Leverett that he was angry with Jesse at first because he continued to insist he had been lying when he made his confession. Whenever Jesse's father was around, he said he was innocent. But when his dad would leave and he was alone with Stittum, he would try to repeat the confession he gave to investigators, but with major inconsistencies. During a visit at the end of the summer, Stittum asked Jesse whether he was there or not, and Jesse said he was not. He said he lied about being there because he didn't want the death penalty, which doesn't

even make any sense. This poor kid was so confused about all this. Those investigators somehow made him think that if he did not confess to the murders that he did not commit, he would be given the death penalty and he was scared. Stittum explained that now he was on Jesse's side, or that he was on Jesse's side, and then Stittum recalled, and that's when I began to realize that he didn't understand what a lawyer was. He had no idea what a defense attorney was.

He didn't understand the concept. He thought we were detectives. This is after they've been working together for months. He didn't understand that we were on his team. He started to view Jesse differently now and felt like his confession was coerced. Right. Again, Jesse is very, very easily confused. And he's very confused about all of this. He is very easily manipulated

After he was arrested Jesse was transferred to a jail in the town of Wynn He wrote a letter to his parents that said I hope that y'all don't hate me because I did not do it I cannot stand in here much longer. I will go crazy. Please try to get me out. I will die in here so fucking sad June 8th 1993 Damien Eccles overdoses on his prescription antidepressant. Damien saved the pills that were dispensed to him on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. By Tuesday, June 8, he had a dozen pills. Just like Jesse's legal team, Damien's defense attorneys are trying to get to know him, so they can better prepare their case.

Defense Assistant, Gloria Shettles, former parole officer and prosecutor's assistant, meets with Damien weekly for nine months. They learned that Damien sought the meaning of life through religion. He was very interested in religion. Grew up Protestant, converted to Catholicism, then shifted to pagan beliefs. Damien told Shettles that his family moved often when he was young. They were very poor. They sometimes lived in shacks with dirt floors and no plumbing. He talks about being bullied in school. By the time he was in high school, he said he started to carry around a dog school, he found, because kids would not bother him when he did.

He felt like being ridiculed for being weird was better than being ridiculed for things he couldn't control. And it was better to be mocked than it was to be beat up. He said he wore mostly black clothing just because someone once told him he looked good and black. And he wore a trench coat because he thought it was cool. He put white powder on his face and wore dark sunglasses to make himself look like a vampire because he thought vampires were cool. Also told his defense about how he, Jason and his girlfriend, Dominique, were harassed by the police for a year and a half

leading up to the murders. Claim that juvenile probation officer, Steve Jones, fed him information about the murders and told him someone urinated in the mouth of one of the victims. Then when the police asked Damien what he knew about the murders, he shared that detail. The West Memphis police then denied that Steve Jones had that info and said only someone at the crime scene would know it. He felt like he was set up. That did not come from the autopsy report. However, two documents from early in the investigation showed Inspector Gitchell and an unidentified official referencing Dr. Frank Preeti's statement or referenced Dr. Preeti's statement that urine was found in the victim's stomachs. June 9th, eight-year-old Aaron Hutchinson speaks to the police again. He now tells them he witnessed the murders of his three friends.

During his interview, he said Tuesday, Jesse told me that something was gonna happen to my friends. During his interview, he said Tuesday, Jesse told me that something was going to happen to my friends. Again, he's just fucking talking shit. Spectre Getschel asked what happened after Jesse said something was going to happen to the boys. And Aaron said, he said, all right, about after that, you get your friends and I'll get mine and we go down there and do something. Okay?

And he said that his friends asked his mom if he could go with him. Vicki said no. But once he got home that evening, he went to Robin Hood Hills on his bike anyway, which is very different than his previous story. Michael and Chris are already there. Stevie arrived late. He said Aaron said that Jesse saw Stevie and caught him. Then according to Aaron, the other young men present saw Michael and Chris.

Aaron said they took them and then they killed them. Aaron continued, I ran and Jesse caught me then. I got away and he caught me again. And I um, he tied me up. I stayed there for about 40 seconds and got untied. Okay. Similar to Jesse's statement, he said his hands and feet were tied with a rope. Told the officers, young men didn't do anything to him besides tie him up saying,

They couldn't hurt me because I kicked everyone, them with foot, just like this tied up. This is the just fucking nonsensical ramblings of a confused little kid. He said that Michael and Chris were stabbed in the neck. He's just fucking happy that people are listening to him. Stevie ran away but fell down and was stabbed in the stomach. He said Stevie removed Stevie's clothing, or Jesse removed Stevie's clothing, Jason removed Michael's clothing, and one of the other men pulled off Chris's clothing. He asked why the men didn't hurt him, and he said the men threatened to kill him if he told anyone Fuck out of here

At least three guys had no problem killing three local kids Aaron's age And they already had Aaron tied up in one version of his story I know he said he got untied after 40 seconds, but why did I just toss his last in the pond? I mean stranger shit has happened, but this is not a believable story. Aaron named all three suspects in this interview, said he knew them because Jesse was a neighbor and one of his cousins talked to Damien and Jason. At one point, Inspector Gitchell asked Aaron,

how can I be sure you're telling me the truth? And Aaron said, I don't know. This is a great witness. Then Gitchell asked if Jesse did anything to him and now Aaron says, he, he, he abused me. A bit later in the interview, Aaron told Gitchell asked if yes, he did anything to him. And now Aaron says, he, um, he, um, he abused me. A bit later in the interview, Aaron told Gitchell that they cut off the private spot of Michael. Then it was asked that they touched him and he said, yes, saying they would touch me on all my private spot.

He's just fucking saying whatever he thinks they wanted to say. And why would this kid lie? You might be thinking, well, why did the kids in the McMartin preschool case lie? Literally hundreds of them. Why didn't one of them say Chuck Norris molested him? Why do they say they saw preschool teachers fucking flying around on brooms? Why do they say they've been flushed down magical toilets? They end up satanic fucked dungeons, where babies were being sacrificed.

Kids say stupid shit all the time. They lie all the time. Especially if adults are real and do what they're saying. Right? What? Seriously? Tell me more. And they'll say all sorts of crazy shit. They will say what they think the adults around them want to hear or things that will capture the attention of the adults around them. There's all kinds of studies.

And why kids lie more frequently than adults. Right? They're testing limits. They enjoy the attention. They get from line. They're gaining approval. They confuse imagination with reality. Their brains are a long ways from being fully cooked. And on and on and on. August 4, 1993, Damien, Jason, Jesse plead not guilty to capital murder with their pretrial

hearing. Judge David Burnett rules that Jesse should be tried separately from Damien and Jason. Later, he rules that the teens could be tried as adults and the state could introduce Jesse's confession into evidence. Damien's son, Seth, will be born on September 9, 1993. It'll be months before he gets to hold him for the first time. If I forget to mention this later, apparently they do have a relationship now. To what extent we don't know, he stays out of the limelight, as son does.

November 17, 1993, divers hired by the Arkansas State Police search a lake behind the trailer where Jason and Damien live They discover a nine inch serrated knife about 50 feet behind the trailer This knife will become a key part of the trial later This knife will be presented as a murder weapon. It wasn't it will be presented as being used to genitally mutilate Chris Byers It wasn't Soon, I'll be I'll be talking about the turtles December 30th 1993 defense attorney Ron Lacks interviews Vicki Hutchinson's neighbors and is told that Aaron was at the trailer park at the time of the murders He was not in Robin Hood Hills like he had told the police in one of the many versions of his constantly changing story

jury selection for Jesse Muskelly's murder trial starts January 18th, 1994. Prosecutor John Fogelman tells the jury they might find errors and discrepancies in Jesse's confession, but that's only because he's trying to minimize his role in the murders. Jesse's attorney, Dan Stittem, argues that Jesse is being prosecuted because of tremendous pressure for the police to make an arrest and the Damien Eccles, excuse me, the Damien Eccles Tunnel Vision that investigators had quote from day one. Jesse only confessed when the officers broke his will and scared him beyond all measure he adds. Dan Sydom suspected that Christopher's stepfather John Mark Byers

was involved in the murders but didn't pursue this theory as a defense strategy because he was afraid it would anger the jury. Mara Leverett writes about Byers' background in her book, Devil's Not. John Mark Byers was once a pawnbroker, jeweler, drug dealer, and confidential informant for the Crittenden County Drug Task Force. He was born in 1957 in Mark Tree, Arkansas, which is 30 miles north of West Memphis. He studied to become a jeweler in Texas. By 1984, he was back in Marion, Arkansas. Byers have been married to Chris's mom since 1977. She had two kids, Chris and a daughter, both from her previous

marriage. Byers first wife had full custody of his kids, and she lived in Marion. Their relationship was described as stormy. In September of 1987, Byers had been arrested after a caller reported a woman screaming in two unattended children outside. Another resident also called to report the screams. An officer reported that the older child at the house said his mom and dad were fighting in the home. Officer saw a man pointing a black object at a crying woman. Woman reported that Byers came to her house at 6.45 a.m. demanding to take the kids.

He said he wanted full custody and he was going to kill her and he was going to use an electric shocker on her. Byers told the officer he was going to take the children with him. He appeared to be under the influence of drugs. Officer has scored the children and their mother to a friend's house. That morning she went downtown

and gave prosecutor John Fogelman a tape recording of the incident. A warrant was issued for Byers' arrest, charging him with terroristic threats. He was convicted and he was sentenced to three years probation. He was required to pay child support and keep a job, neither of which he did.

He and Melissa opened Byers Jewelry in West Memphis in 1989, closed down in less than a year. Byers then became a partner in a pawn business, but his partner bought him out in less than a year. In 1989, Byers and Melissa had bought a little house in West Memphis. She worked as a housekeeper and he will sell jewelry from home or at flea markets. May 5, 1992, the record of his conviction is formally expunged even though he had violated parole. Order was signed by Judge David Burnett. Months later, in July of 1992, Byers is arrested in Memphis, charged with conspiring to sell

cocaine and carrying a dangerous weapon. That night, he's released into the custody of U.S. Marshals. Records do not indicate who ordered the release or why. Byers is an interesting figure in all of this. I don't think he had shit to do with the murder of the three boys, but I can see how some would think so. He just, he looks suspicious. He has, you know, a little bit of a troubled past, looks like a dude who's done some shady shit. Transitioning back to Jesse's trial now, Inspector Gary, very, very few people think that he did it now, by the way. There was a period several years ago where he seemed to be a primary suspect,

no longer for reasons that will be made clear by the end of this episode. Transitioning back to Jesse's trial now, Inspector Gary Gitchell testifies that Jesse was very relaxed during his interrogation. The jury listened to Jesse's 34 minute confession tape. Remember, the West Memphis police only started recording after they've been talking to Jesse for about five hours. On cross-examination, Dan Stittum asked Gitchell if it occurred to him that the story was false. Gitchell testified, In Jesse's case, I feel like he did tell us a good bit of the truth.

But then they also lessened their activity in his statement. That's just common. Gitchell conceded that Jesse's first statement contained errors, but he said, Jesse simply got confused. That's all. Erin Hutchinson does not testify at trial, but his mom Vicki does. She described that SBAT, that witch's gathering, where she claimed Jesse and Damien were present, but the judge ruled that the testimony about the attendees painting their faces black and

having an orgy could be too prejudicial. Vicki couldn't say much in the presence of the jury other than she saw 12 to 15 young people together. Prosecutor John Fulgerman called on Lisa Sackavicious from the state crime lab. She testified that a green polyester fiber found on one of the boy's caps was microscopically similar to fibers on a shirt from Damien's house. A red Raycon fiber found in their bodies was microscopically similar to fibers from a red bathrobe found in Jesse's home, she admitted the results

did not imply that the shirt or bathrobe was worn by the killers at the crime scene and that the fibers could have gotten there through secondary transfer. Then on cross-examination, and this is so important, she concedes that many fibers are microscopically similar and that quote, the discovery proved nothing. So nice try-op prosecution. But yeah, Damien's shirt, you know, or some shirt at his place, had fibers, microscopically similar to fibers found at the crime scene. She leaves out initially the fact that most shirts have fibers, microscopically similar.

So the fibers found, or a lot of shirts, whatever. This is fucking, yeah, could have been a fucking million different shirts. Dan Stittham focused on raising reasonable doubt. He didn't want Jesse to face cross examination because of his low IQ. So the defense chooses to not have him testify. Stidham calls on detective and slash, slash polygraph examiner, Warren Holmes. Warren was a big get. He'd worked on cases like Watergate, the assassinations, the JFK, Martin Luther King. Originally, Holmes was going to testify that he reviewed the polygraph

results and found that Jesse truthfully answered all questions but one. That question related to his prior drug use. He believed Detective Bill Durham lied to Jesse about his results to get him to confess. Judge Burnett ultimately ruled that the testimony was not admissible because one cannot testify whether polygraphs suggest guilt or innocence in court. Why even fucking use them? Judge Burnett did allow Holmes to testify outside the jury's presence about factors that can contribute to false confessions.

He said that three warning signs showed up in Jesse's case. Having the subject tell the authorities nothing they don't already know, the subject making a confession that does not fit with the known facts, and the story of the crime not being told in narrative form. Holmes testified, quote, and what I don't like about this confession is that most of it emanated from questions right off the bat without any narrative of any length at all at all, without any descriptions about feelings or conversations or anything.

Yeah, because he's just fucking trying to say what they want him to say. Holmes also said he didn't understand how Jesse messed up the time of day and the type of material used to up the time of day and the type of material used to bind the victims. He knew the difference between shoelaces and rope, and if he was involved, he wouldn't have known those details. In his opinion, this should have been a signal that something was wrong and the investigator should have asked probing questions and determined if he was making this story up or not. Holmes testified that telling someone they failed the test can also lead to a false confession

because they view the polygraph as a, quote, last hope. When they're told their line quote their will is beaten to a pulp and they just give up. Homes testified about personality traits of people who are likely to make false confessions. Low IQ, highly suggestible, always attempting to solve the immediate stress factor and assumes they can straighten things out later on. They want to get the interrogators off their back so they can go home. Right? Well this testimony was delivered outside the jury's presence or why it was delivered outside the jury's presence. Not entirely clear to me. Defense Attorney Dan Stittum also wanted to present testimony from social psychologist Dr. Richard Offshade

regarding Jesse's confession. Dick Quota met Dark Lord as Pleased. Anyway, Judge Burnett did not allow him to testify about his opinion on whether Jesse's confession was coerced. The judge did allow Dr. Offshe to testify that Jesse gave a false statement when he could no longer stand the strain of the interrogation. The defense asked Dr. Offshe to list examples of coercive interrogations. Offshe testified that in Jesse's case the most powerful example was the eighth Revisiting of the question of the time at which the killings occurred. Yeah fucking eight times. He got it. So seven times he gets it wrong First Jesse said that morning

Then he said about noon Way earlier than when they were last seen alive, which was around 6 30 p.m Then he answered yes when asked for the murders happened after school let out He quoted detective burn ragene rage as saying, Okay, the night you were in the woods, had you been there, had you been in the water? Jesse answered, yeah, we've been in the water. We went in at that night playing around in it. This was the first time it was directly suggested that the correct answer was that the murders happened at night.

Offshade testified that Jesse accepted this and then just started using the phrase at night going forward. Prosecutor Brent Davis asked Dr. Afsheh, I don't know what the terminology in Berkeley, California is, but when the defendant identified who it was, who was castrated, when he indicated that one of the boys was cut in the face, you don't know, and you can't give an opinion that any of those questions were coercive in nature, can you? Afsheh answered, No, I can't because the record that we are dealing with is very incomplete, because this part of the record is preceded as everyone agrees by hours of interrogation, in which many subjects were discussed, for which we have no record.

February 5, 1994. Jesse Miss Kelly convicted. Based largely on the strength of this bullshit confession of one count of first-degree murder for the death of Michael Moore, and two counts of second- degree murder for the deaths of Chris Byers and Stevie Branch, and he ascends to life in prison plus 40 years. February 17th, Jesse tells prosecutors he'll testify against Damien and Jason at their upcoming trial. He makes a statement under oath, accusing them of murdering the three boys because he hopes this will get his sense reduced, that's what he's been told. And then he changes his mind about this the next day. Prosecutors appear to be worried now before the second trial because they could not use Jesse's

confession unless he agreed to testify. Prosecutor Brent Davis holds a pretrial meeting with the victim's families, tells them that if Jesse testifies, he will get a reduced sentence. Davis said, unfortunately, we need his testimony real bad. If it was a perfect world, you know, we'd take what we have on Jesse and leave it. And we go and get the other two and get them and be happy, but it's not. And we need a testimony to be sure we get convictions on the other two. Prosecutor John Fogelman tells the parents that besides Jesse's confession, all they have is a fiber found on Stevie's shirt that matched a fiber from some of Jason's mother's

clothing and a fiber found on his shirt and Michael's Cub Scout cap that matched a shirt found at Damon's house but matched perfectly no we already went through that right this is fucking beyond flimsy so basically they don't have shit they do not have shit when it comes to hard evidence and they don't have that because you know these kids didn't do it if investigators had done their jobs better they would have realized that they did have evidence on Terry Hobbs. Can't wait to share dirt on that sack of shit later. Prosecution also had information from a witness who reported seeing Damien and Domini, his girlfriend on a service road near the crime scene the day of the murders, but Domini also lived near the crime scene so it made sense for her to be over there

and she and Damien were getting busy all the time so it made sense for him to be with her. Also have two minor witnesses who said Damien talked about the murders at a softball game. These were like little kids and they had a jailhouse informant Michael Roy Carson who claimed Jason made incriminating statements. This informant will also later, tearfully admit to making everything up. Finally they had the knife found in the lake behind Jason's house, but there was no conclusive proof that it was the murder weapon. It'll come out later that it's highly unlikely this knife was the murder weapon. Highly unlikely it was ever used in the boys.

Most likely came, if I forget to mention this later, some people said that they saw this thing being thrown in the lake like months and months before the murders even occurred. I know there's a lot of details here. 2008, attorneys for Jason Baldwin were revealed that the last two witnesses, Dominique Tier and Garrett Schwarting, told the police that they were aware that a large knife had been thrown into the lake, oh yeah, well before the murders. Here we go, like a fucking year before. Also, one of the law enforcement dive team had indicated the officers were given precise directions on where to find the knife, the knife that was sitting at the bottom of the lake when the murders occurred. Jason's attorney will argue

that withholding that evidence had compromised prosecutorial misconduct. Prosecutor Davis told the families had a 50-50 chance of conviction without Jesse's statement. Damian Eccles and Jason Baldwin's trial starts February 19, 1994. Opening arguments delivered February 28. Jason's attorney, Paul Ford, told the jury he was only 16 when he was arrested, was not a troublemaker. Carried for his two younger brothers every day, made sure they got to school on time. Ford argued that the police disregarded numerous statements, alibis, and physical evidence, all true, saying, you'll see that this evidence that they have has been twisted and manipulated and distorted in order to make the pieces of the puzzle they want alibis and physical evidence, all true, saying you'll see that this evidence that they have

has been twisted and manipulated and distorted in order to make the pieces of the puzzle they want to build to fit together. And you'll see that from their own witnesses, lastly, you will see from their own witnesses evidence that will show that Jason Baldwin is innocent. Damien's attorney Scott Davidson addresses his concern that the jury will find Damien guilty because of his troubled past. Davidson tells the jury, he's not the all-American boy. He's kind of weird. He's not the same as maybe you and I might be.

But I think you'll see that there's simply no evidence that he murdered these three kids. The prosecution presents a similar case at the second trial as the first. Prosecutor wanted the judge to take, this is ridiculous, the prosecutor at one point wanted the judge to take, quote, judicial notice that there was a full moon on May 5th according to the almanac which the judge found quote appropriate. For fuck's sake, who advised the prosecutor to tell the judge that? Jerry Dipshit Driver? Uh, judge needs to know it was a full moon on May 5th. Satan say Tana Colts love to sacrifice kids on a full moon. It's must that the judge hears about this. Very important, crucial. Also was that pond

ever thoroughly drained to make sure there are not more bodies in it? I bet my bottom dollar that if you have that pond drained you're gonna find anywhere from three to six dozen dead babies and a lot of upside down crosses. A lot of pentagrams. That pond is quite likely a portal to hell. Make sure the judge knows that the pond is a portal to hell. It's a must that he hears about that, and portals to hell open fully on full moons. Detective Bernrich testified that during Damien's interview at the police station, he said that all people have demonic forces inside them.

He talked about the mystical significance of water, said that the number three was sacred to the wicked religion. Damien said he read books by Stephen King, which Detective Byrne thought was quote, strange. What a fucking weirdo! How fucking crazy! How strange! He reads books written by one of America's most popular authors. Detective Byrne is strange. No, he's not straight. He's stupid. Damien's ex-girlfriend Deanna Holcomb told the jury that Damien wore all black and carried knives. But all these kids carried knives. An officer who searched Damien's home testified that they found 11, 11 black t-shirts. The book never on a broomstick, a history of witchcraft, and a dog skull. I love the 11 black t-shirts detail. 11? So sad that that was seen as something very important to mention, A history of witchcraft and a dog school. I love the 11 black teachers detail 11

So sad that that was seen as something very important to mention right that it could sway a jury Like like if Damien's closet had nothing but pleated khaki pants leather tassels slip on loafers and Tommy Bahama Collared button-up shirts, you know, he would just been fucking let go like if you'd had posters up next all that of Alan Jackson and Toby Keith He was never been arrested. He's one of us boys. They mean didn't do it. Look at those posters up next all that of Alan Jackson and Toby Keith, he was never been arrested. He's one of us boys. They didn't do it. Look at those posters. Look at that close prosecution then calls on Dr. Dale Griffiths, a cult expert.

His testimony would apparently sway the jury, which is sad because this guy's a fucking clown. Dr. Dale, 56 years old, 1993 was a retired police officer who lectured all over the country about the occult. He was a say, Tannock Panic poster child country about the occult. He was a, say, tannic-panic poster child, massive whack-a-doodle. It is fucking embarrassing. This guy was ever paid to lecture to anyone about anything. This dude got his doctorate in cult psychology from Columbia Pacific University, which was a bullshit mail-order degree mill that offered literally no formal classes. The state of California would file a suit against Columbia Pacific and have it shut down permanently for not meeting educational standards.

Right? 41% of their PhDs were granted in less than three years and no one went to class. Homeboy had a fucking bullshit degree. He might as well have gotten his doctorate as a free prize in the bottom of a box of crackerjacks. It was worth as much as fucking something from inside of a fortune cookie. He proclaimed that eight, the age of the victims, was a witch's number, and that was taken seriously by the court. He claimed to have given lectures on the occult to over 38,000 police officers worldwide. This guy, not long after this trial, he will help write a book called Secret Weapons,

Two Sisters, Terrifying, True Story of Sex, Spies, and Sabotage. This is a book about two women who claimed that the CIA kidnapped them when they were like little kids, like, I don't know, four or five years old. Brainwashed them and then used them as child transvestite sex slaves. And this book was marketed as a true story. So yeah, this is the guy as an expert witness. This is the guy who believed that the musical Schoolhouse Rock was Satanic. This is good shit. They got a lot of great minds working on this fucking case.

I bet he and Jerry Driver, oh, got along great. Man, those two guys love to have beers together. Dr. Wacken Doodle Dip Shit testified that the number three was one of the most powerful numbers in the practice of satanic belief. Griffith said that the three defendants were using the trappings of occultism during this event. He pointed to the phase and time of the moon, and the removal of blood as the satanic trappings he spoke of. There was no evidence. By the way, the blood had been removed from the victims. Zero evidence, but it got talked about a lot in trial.

It was just an assumption since they didn't find a bunch of blood around the pond. When asked about the significance of sucking blood, he said, Blood is the life force. And usually they will take. They prefer to have a child that is young, very young, and the younger, the more innocent, the better the life force. Prosecutor John Fogelman asked Dr. Griffiths if he noticed a particular type of dress typical of people involved in the occult. He was like, yes. He said, uh, black nails, black hair, black t-shirts, and occasionally tattoos.

Oh no! I'm fucking just a little bit of nail posh away from being a satanic poster child. I guess I don't have a black t-shirt today, but most days they do. Dr. Griffith testified about a book seized from Damien's bedroom that had a pentagram on it, which he said was a wicking symbol, one of the front inside pages had a pentagram on it, which he said was a wicking symbol, one of the one of the front inside pages that a pentagram with a upside down crosses around it, which comes from black witchcraft chapter called rise of the devil underlined was underlining red in some senses. The chapter did reference the life force of blood. Oh yeah. Yeah. He was curious about this kind of stuff. Prosecutor Brent Davis had Dr. Frank Peretti, the medical examiner look at the knife found in the lake behind Damien's house and pretty agreed that the wounds found on Chris Byers

very consistent, very easily could have come from the serrated part of this knife. Peretti said the knife wounds on Chris's genitals were anti-mortem, as in happened before death. Six other forensic pathologists will later refute all of this. On cross-examination, Peretti did concede that Chris's wounds were equally consistent with another serrated knife that was presented at trial, one that belonged to John Mark Byers. Basically, Peretti stated by the end of his testimony, any knife with a serrated edge could have made the wounds on Chris. They're just fucking grasping. The defense did get Peretti to acknowledge that Jesse's description of the murder and his confession was not confirmed by his medical findings because the boys were not strangled, not strangled,

had not been raped, and not tied up with rope. That alone is fucking huge. Jury doesn't care. They've made it their minds. They made it their minds that began in the trial. Defense Attorney Paul Ford asked Dr. Preeti questions about the genital mutilation of Chris Byers. Dr. Preeti said it would take a razor or a sharp knife to do it.

Ford asked him how long it would take him to do it, and Preeti estimated it would take him about five to 10 minutes in a laboratory setting. Uh, Ford asked pretty if he could do it in the dark or in water. Pretty acknowledged. That'd be pretty difficult for them. Asked pretty how much blood is in the human body and if blood soaks into the ground.

And with his knowledge of the amount of blood lost by all three victims, did he have an opinion about whether the killer could have cleaned up that amount of blood in the dark? Uh, no blood being, you know, found in the pond was a big discussion point of the trial, you know, indicative to many that a cult ritual should have gone down. Or it was indicative of the kids being killed somewhere else, then their bodies dumped in that pond. You know, that's a much more reasonable possibility.

Pretty answered, I think it'll be quite difficult to do, to have injuries to this nature without having any blood. I mean, that's, I would question that about the blood, unless it happened in the water or it happened some other place. Exactly. 16 year old Michael Roy Carson, who spent time in jail with Jason Baldwin, now testifies that Jason admitted that he dismembered the kids and sucked blood from one of the victim's genitals.

This is the jailhouse informant I mentioned earlier that definitely lied. Carson testified that he was in the Crittenden County, Juvy for burglary in August of 1993. He said that he and Jason Baldwin were playing spades with the group and he wanted to get to know people. He asked Jason if he committed the murders. Said Jason denied it during that first conversation.

Next day he asked Jason again if he did it and said it would stay between them. No one else was around. Jason allegedly now said yes and then went into great detail about how he killed them and sexually assaulted them. Michael told the court shit like, quote, Jason told me how he dismembered the kid. He sucked the blood from the penis and the scrotum and put the balls in his mouth. And the jury ate these details up.

By the time Michael was saying this shit, oh man, I mean, if their fates weren't sealed before, they were definitely sealed now. Carson testified that he came forward in February of 1994 because he saw the parents of the victims on TV and said, I have a soft heart, I couldn't take it. Juvenile drug and alcohol counselor Danny Williams told Jason and Damien's lawyers that he was very familiar with Michael Carson and knew he was lying. Several months earlier, he was working with Michael and told him that Jason was accused of killing and sexually mutilating the three boys, and he gave Michael the details

that he then gave at trial. And then Michael later informed him he was going to tell the police that Jason confessed. Williams told defense attorney Paul Ford and the prosecution that he knew Michael was lying. Jason's defense team wanted to tell the jury that Michael Carson was a LSD dependent and presented the information from the counselor about, you know, him lying, but the judge, for reasons never explained, won't allow it. Bunch of bullshit. Carson will years later, right, break down, cry, talk about this while being interviewed for the West Memphis documentary. He will apologize to the West Memphis three for fucking ruining their lives. He said he was doing a lot of hard drugs at the time said he was doing a lot of LSD.

He was huffing a lot of gas and was confused all the time. He said he testified in exchange for hoping to be not transferred to an adult penitentiary for several years, even though he'll deny he was formally offered a deal for a bunch of burglaries. The director of the juvenile detention center, Jason and Michael were imprisoned together in Joyce Kyrton, she said, she allowed the other kids to watch the trial the night Michael testified. And she said, they went fucking crazy when Michael started sharing his bullshit. They were jumping out of their seats, they were screaming at the TV, calling Michael a liar.

They told Joyce that Michael didn't say shit. Or that Jason didn't. Right? There was so much bullshit throughout this case. The prosecution realized they had a weak case against Jason because they offered his attorneys a 40-year sentence with parole possibly in 15 years if he would just testify against Damien. But Jason, good friend, good dude, rejects that deal. Will not testify against his friend, especially when he knows neither he nor Damien had anything to do with any of this. Paul Ford later said about their strategy at the trial, we wanted to just disappear on the radar screen and let Damien be the whole focus.

We thought if we didn't stir the pot and they didn't stir the pot, what were they going to convict him on? The prosecution presented two witnesses who claim they overheard Damien confessing at a softball game now. These little kids, Jody Mefford said she heard Damien say that he killed the three little boys and before he turned himself in that He was gonna kill two more and he already had one of them picked out this story will later change It'll be like he's gonna kill ten kids She said that day she saw Jason Baldwin with Damien Before this she heard people talk about Damien. She thought it was she thought it was weird because he dressed weird and a weird hairstyle

Okay Cross examination. She admitted that she told her mom, but they didn't go to the police. Yeah, because mom was probably like, shut the fuck up. Weirdo. What are you talking about? 12 year old Christy Van Vickle, Jodi's friend, gave similar testimony. Other kids present for this supposed confession will give similar, but also conflicting stories. All kinds of local kids supposedly heard Damien do this or do that, say this or say that. Rumors and gossip. Damien's defense calls on Marty King, the manager of the local Bojangles, who testified about the bloody man who came into the restaurant around 9.30 p.m. the night of the murders.

Part of their strategy to raise reasonable doubt. Officer Regina Meek testified that she did not go into the restaurant when she was called to the scene. Said she didn't find the man, didn't make a report. She confirmed that she was one of the officers searching for the missing boys that night. So she's fucking, she killed it. Great work. Officer Meek, uh, Robin Wadley, Jason's attorney asked her, and you're out

looking for some boys and you're out in that area and you hear about someone bleeding, did anything go off in your mind? Thinking that something may be going on. Meek said, okay, first of all, you've got to understand it was a different area I went to. It was a different ward. I did not connect it to at all. Detective Burn Ridge was asked what date they sent the bloodscrapings from the Bojangles to the lab, and he said, yeah, they were never sent. We lost them.

He said it was his fault. Yeah, they got lost. We lost the samples. Detective Ridge fucking killing the game. Inspector Gitzel, testified that HBO documented documented producers gave him a serrated knife previously owned by John Mark Byers January 1984. He's not the knife for testing, because it was a substance on it. Remember the defense team pointed out that Byers potentially had motive. He was upset with Chris the day he disappeared, I guess. Chris was the only victim he was mutilated.

Byers had extensive knowledge of the area, strong enough to carry the boys to the scene. His training as a jeweler suggests he was precise enough to commute a mutilation. Other evidence suggests the boys were killed in a separate location, like a lack of mosquito bites on their bodies. The pond they were found in, an area immediately around it loaded with mosquitoes at the time of the boy's murders, and that lack of blood. Michael de uh oh boy. Guglia, Guglielmo, uh Duglielmo, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, basaribu, A duglielmo basaribasari bagheri. So I don't know. DNA experts testified there was a small amount of what looked like blood in a crevice where the knife folds.

DNA testing was inconclusive because buyers in Chris have the same blood type. When I saw human blood on the knife, buyers said he cut his thumb. Damian's defense chose to have him testify. Damian explained that wicked religion tried to explain what it was to the jury, saying basically it's close involvement with nature. He said, I'm not a Satanist. I don't believe in human sacrifices or anything like that. When that's why he had a dog scolding his room, he said, I thought it was kind of cool. When that's why he had evil tattooed across his knuckles, he testified, I just kind of thought it was cool. So I did that. Damian testified that he had

different interests than most people his age. It was a defense mechanism to be different so people would stay away from him Damon explained that he purchased the book never on a broomstick Which was found in his room at the Crittin County Library when they were having a book sale He read quotes from his personal notebook said that one quote that people had a problem with came from the play of midnight It's midnight or midsummer nights dream. I, you know, Shakespeare and another quote was, uh, metallic lyrics. He denied on the stand killing Michael, Stevie and Chris. The defense called on Robert Hicks, a police training officer and an expert on satanic crime.

Now this guy is an anti satanic panic dude. He, uh, he published a book in 1991 titled in pursuit of Satan, the police and the occult, which is all about the police being hysterical. When it came to thinking satanic cults were behind violent crime. He was trying to undo the damage. People like Dr. Dale Dipshit Griffiths was doing. He testified that he did not know about a connection between sexual mutilation and the occult. He also said there had been no empirical evidence that listening to Metallica could lead people to commit crimes. It's fucking crazy they had to talk about that in court. He said the phrase trappings of the occult used by Dr. Griffiths, quote,

was absolutely meaningless in considering any kind of violent crime. Hail Robert Hicks, hail Nimrod. Thanks for being a reasonable man, do what you could do to try and put a stop to this ignorant witch hunt bullshit. Closing arguments took place March 17th. Prosecutor John Fogelman said that religion is a motivating force He gives people who want to do evil want to commit murders a reason to do what they're doing And I hate this prick so much He has never apologized to Damien Jesse or Jason in interviews

He comes across like a fucking pompous prick who cares more about political optics and pride than you know Doing a job correctly and apologize when he fucks up. He'll go on to become a judge and then retire comfortably a few years ago. And in the last public address of all this that I could find, he stated that he still thinks the Memphis three are guilty. He just refuses to admit he fucked up. He told the jury you see inside Damien and you look inside there. There's not a soul there.

Damien's attorney Val Price emphasized that the jury needed to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and that having weird things in your room doesn't mean you're guilty of murder. On March 18, 1994, the jury finds Damon and Jason guilty of capital murder for all three deaths. Being a kid who listened to Metallica and read Stephen King, a kid who struggled with mental illness, was fascinated by blood magic, and was wicked, that was enough for the jury. Add all the general mutilation talk, and I'm sure they would have voted in

favor of burning these motherfuckers alive. March 21st, 1994, the jury sentences Jason to life in prison and sentences Damien to death. His execution is set for May 5th, but he'll receive an automatic appeal. All three defendants file appeals May of 1994. On February 19, 1996, the Arkansas Supreme Court issues a decision upholding Jesse's conviction. June of 1996, HBO releases a documentary about the case titled Paradise Lost, The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills, which puts a national spotlight on the West Memphis 3. Documentary will suggest that they were wrongfully convicted.

Paradise Lost will win an Emmy for outstanding achievement in informational programming in 97. Producers Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinovsky would follow the case for almost two decades and produce two more documentaries about the West Memphis three. Berlinger told the AV Club in 2012, in the first film, there was no advocacy impulse that sent us down to West Memphis, Arkansas originally. We thought we were making a film about disaffected youth, about kids who had done something rotten.

Basically, we thought they were guilty because the local press reports coming out were very one-sided. But then they discovered numerous problematic issues with the case during filming. Berlinger said several months into the process, most notably when we finally got access to the West Memphis three,

Bruce and I felt there was something not quite right. The more we dug into it, the more we realized this was not a case about guilty teens run amok. These guys have been wrongfully charged. We were still naive enough to believe that it would all work itself out at the trial. Paradise Lost 2 Revelations premiered in March of 2000. This documentary suggested that John Mark Byers was the real murderer.

December 23, 1996, the Arkansas Supreme Court upholds Damien and Jason's convictions. June 17, 1999, Judge Burnett denies Damien's petition for a new trial under Arkansas Rule 37, ineffective assistance of counsel. December of 1999, Damien Marys a woman named Laurie Davis, who had been corresponding with him for years in a Buddhist prison wedding ceremony. Laurie Davis, a landscape architect from New York City, Lori Davis first wrote to Damien after she watched Paradise Lost. The beginning of a new millennium marks a turning point in the case. THV11, a news outlet for Little Rock, Arkansas reported, while the three were jailed, the

internet continued to grow along with the transformation of American culture. The mid-90s brought grunge and counterculture to the forefront, giving people new ways to express themselves outside the norm. It was on the internet where many could find people and explore topics like never before. Web forums and discussion boards was one part in the growing notoriety of the West Memphis 3's case during a unique time in history. In 2000, an article comes out about Jerry fucking driver getting into some legal trouble. Mr. fucking striper. To hell with the devil.

September 27, 2000, the West Memphis Evening Times reported the following. Ex-Krintenden official to pay up. The former juvenile officer for Krintenden County, Arkansas, charged last year with theft. After a state audit found he'd written $27,400 in unauthorized checks, has been ordered to repay the debt, and $241 monthly installments. Jerry B. Driver, 60, pleaded no contest to the theft charge, March 27, and circuit judge David Burnett, same judge as the West Memphis Re case, ordered him placed on probation, then authorized a transfer of the probation to authorities in Michigan where Driver now lives.

Eight years later, this dipshit will get convicted in Florida for Grand Theft Auto, and will serve several years in prison based on Florida Department of Correction records. Damien will later mention that he heard numerous other kids supervised by Jerry Driver when he was working as a teen parole officer, complain that Jerry sexually harassed him. Some moral crusader. Fuck Jerry Driver when he was working as a teen parole officer, complained that Jerry sexually harassed him. Some moral crusader. Fuck Jerry Driver. April of 2001, the Arkansas Supreme Court rules that Judge Burnett failed to give sufficient attention to Damien's arguments, in his rejection of Damien's Rule 37 petition.

Cases sent back for more consideration. In June, his Rule 37 hearing ends with the state Supreme Court denying a re-hearing. Setback. July of 2002, Damien's attorney files for DNA testing of the crime scene evidence. Two years later, June 2004, Judge David Burnett files an order for DNA testing. August of 2004, Vicki Hutchinson gives an interview with the Arkansas Times reporter where she admits she lied profusely to the police. She claims she was told her child would be

taken away from her if she did not cooperate. Remember Vicki, the woman who dated Damien while working as a volunteer detective for Jerry Driver, the woman who lied about him and got her son Aaron to also lie? Next to Jesse's core is confession. She and her son provided some of the best evidence for the prosecution. Her son Aaron will say that he was tricked. He was no longer sure. He saw the murders and thought that it was possible, quote, his mind played tricks with him during a period of severe trauma. Vicki told The Times reporter, I guess I'm the whole reason Jesse's locked up. And that makes me very, very, I can't tell you what

it does to me. And that's why I'm doing this now. I have to clear my conscience, not just for me, but for God. I can't live like this anymore with this on my shoulders." She wasn't just one of the main reasons that Jesse got locked up. She's one of the main reasons all three of these kids got locked up. 2007, some crime scene DNA is finally tested and authorities confirmed the DNA does not match Damien, Jason, or Jesse. However, some hair found on a knot used to tie up one of the boys was not inconsistent with Jesse's Stevie Stepfather Terry Hobbs. DNA found on one of the shoelaces matches Hobbs DNA. It only matched 1.5% of the population.

A second hair, found on a tree stump near the body, matched David Jacoby, close friend of Hobbs. That year, John Mark Byers now tells the media he believes the three men were wrongfully convicted also publicly states Terry fucking Hobbs did it. That year the Free the West Memphis 3 movement revived interest in the case. Celebrities like Johnny Depp, Winona Ryder, Eddie Vedder from Pirtle Jam, Patty Smith, Henry Rollins from Black Flag, the Dixie Chicks, now known as the Chicks, Peter Jackson, the

director of the Lord of the Rings franchise, publicly supported the West Memphis three and helped fund their appeals. April and hail Nimrod for them. Awesome as he did that. April of 2008, Damon's lawyers filed a motion for a new trial based on new evidence. September 10 2008, Judge David Burnett denies the request for a retrial because the DNA evidence is deemed inconclusive. Major setback. September 2010, the Arkansas Supreme Court hears Damien's appeal for a new trial. November 4th, 2010, Arkansas Supreme Court orders the trial court judge to determine whether the DNA evidence or juror misconduct evidence

justifies a new trial or exoneration. July 2008, evidence comes to light that jury foreman Kent Arnold discussed the case with an attorney before the deliberations in the Eccles and Baldwin trial and advocated unlawfully for a conviction in the jury room. Arnold manipulated his way under the jury and properly discussed the case with jurors and others before deliberations, made up his mind to quote, get his guy with a conviction

before defense attorneys had a chance to present Eccles' case, according to an affidavit by Little Rock attorney Lloyd Warford, who was an Arnold family attorney. Of course he did, right? Damien was weird! Had evil tattooed on his knuckles. He was a witch! He listened to heavy metal. Lock him up! He's not like us! Fuck him! New evidentiary hearing is scheduled for December 2011. Supreme Court rebukes judge David Burnett for not holding a hearing on the DNA evidence before rejecting Damien's request for a retrial in 2008. The court determined, quote,

While there is a significant dispute in this case, as to the legal effects of the DNA test results, it is undisputed that the results conclusively exclude Echols, Baldwin, and Miss Kelly as the source of the DNA evidence tested. At that time, Burnett was at the state capitol attending freshman orientation for state senators. He told NBC, I made my opinion and they made theirs. That's the way the system works.

I did what I thought was appropriate at the time. Times change and circumstances change and I guess they had a different view than I did. The other Supreme Court had the correct view. You stubborn fuckface. August 19, 2011 at an unexpected hearing. Damien, Jason and Jesse accept Alfred Pleas, and are released from prison with time served and 20 years probation. An Alfred Plea allows them to maintain their innocence while acknowledging that prosecutors

had sufficient evidence to convict them. Why do this? Attorney Stephen Braga, working with the West Memphis 3 to get them a new trial, said, The Alfred Plee was the only compromise I could come up with to try to bridge the gap between the state's absolute refusal to drop the charges and the 3's absolute demand to maintain their innocence of crimes they did not commit. Despite more and more evidence coming forward that the West Memphis 3 had been wrongly convicted, the state just would not fucking grant them a new trial. They didn't want to be embarrassed. Prosecutor John Fogelman even admitted money was a big consideration.

If the West Memphis had a new trial and were found innocent, well, that could open the door for major lawsuits. And the state of Arkansas, you know, would be out over a hundred million dollars for wrongfully imprisoning people. So really, even though the release, the state of Arkansas fucks these dudes over again. You know, now the state doesn't have to admit wrongdoing

and they won't get any fucking money for being falsely imprisoned for 18 years of their lives. At the time of their release, Jesse and Damien were 36. Jason was 34. In his book, Life After Death, Damien wrote about how he felt while he waited to see if Jason would agree to enter the Alfred plea. He and Jesse decided to accept it right away.

But Jason was holding out. He was ready to stay in prison rather than give the state the satisfaction of not having to admit they fucked him over. Damien wrote, The prosecutor wanted all three of us, Jesse, Jason and me, to take the deal or there would be no deal. Over the years, Jason had grown to love prison. His circumstances were not the same as mine.

He had a job, he had befriended the guards, and was actually looking forward to next year in prison school. Jason has also said previously that he wasn't willing to concede anything to the prosecutors. I understood that with all my heart, and I knew he still believed he would be exonerated one day and walk freely through the prison gates. But the state was too corrupt to ever let that happen. I was trapped in a nightmare, chained to someone I could not communicate with. I paced back and forth in my prison cell, two steps to the door, and then two steps

back. Over and over and over, I paced back and forth in my prison cell, two steps to the door, and then two steps back. Over and over and over, I paced. At all hours of the day and night, I couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, couldn't read, couldn't even sit still. I wept, I cursed, I raged. To see home so close and yet still beyond my reach was pain beyond articulation. Jason was later say, I didn't take the deal from me. I took it for Damien. Jason said at a press conference that he didn't want to take the deal, adding, However, they're trying to kill Damien. And sometimes you just have to bite the gun to save somebody.

That's a great quote. Damien said about Jason, I want to publicly thank Jason too. Just to let him know that I do acknowledge what he did, that he did want to keep fighting. He didn't want to take this deal in the beginning. And I recognize and acknowledge that he did so almost entirely for me. The victim's parents had their own reactions to the plea deal. Steve Branch said about Damien, it just goes to show you that he's been manipulating. As far as I'm concerned, he was going to pay for killing my son. Pamela Hobbs and John

Mark Byers, who now believed in the innocence of the West Memphis Three, both attended the hearing. Byers said three young men have had 18 years of their lives taken away. To see them get out and have a normal life is a blessing from God. All three men attended the premiere of Paradise Lost 3 Purgatory at the New York Film Festival October 10, 2011. In 2012, their legal team offered a $200,000 reward for new information leading to the real killers. That year, Peter Jackson and Amy Berg produced a documentary, West of Memphis, which suggests that Stevie Branches stepfather Terry Hobbs

could be the killer. If you haven't seen that doc, holy shit, does it make a compelling case for Terry's guilt? Let's talk about that, motherfucker. I love how this all unraveled. Back in 2007, Dixie Chick, aka Chick singer Natalie singer Natalie mains joined a growing number of celebrities supporting the release of the West Memphis 3 and She was a bit more vocal than some of the others when it came to you know, who she thought did it She thought Terry Hobbs killed those kids Her letters seeking donations for the trio's legal defense fund mentioned a DNA test that found a hair belonging to Hobbs on a shoelace Used to bind one of the murdered boys and that was enough for Terry to sue her for

defamation. And as part of this defamation case, Terry had to answer questions in a legal deposition. A private investigator, uh, Rachelle Geyser, did her due diligence when it came to making a case that there was enough evidence to suspect that Terry did it and therefore Natalie Maines did have a right to suspect him. This PI met Terry at his house, talked with him, and when he went to go use the bathroom, swiped some of his cigarette butts to have his DNA secretly tested. That DNA was found to be a direct match to DNA that came from a hair found on Michael Moore's ligature at the crime scene. Now, not his stepson, you know, Stevie's ligature, but Michael's.

Why would his DNA turn up on his friends, or his son's friends, excuse me, dead body like this? One way would be from him tying Michael up and killing him. This is the best crime scene evidence linking anyone to the crime scene anyone has uncovered thus far. Terry was now asked to voluntarily give his DNA to formally clear himself of suspicion, but he doesn't do that. Why not? Maybe because the DNA that the PI grabbed couldn't be used in criminal court, but if he had the the state collected they could use it against him another hair found in the crime scene matches DNA from David Jacoby Terry's best friend who was with him the evening the boys disappeared

We've kind of referenced this stuff already right pretty weird And I know that you know it just limits down to like 1.5 percent of the population So it isn't necessarily these guys but probably is and new evidence or new technology has come forth where if they'll test this stuff again, it might actually conclusively connect them. But anyway, digging further into Terry, the PI then found some older rest reports. Terry beat his first wife pretty badly. Also accused of beating his children and assaulting neighbors. Mildred French, former neighbor of Terry's, made a police complaint that she heard a baby crying and suspected Terry of beating his child.

After she confronted Terry, she returns to her apartment, they live in the same building and she starts taking a shower. When she gets out of the shower, she says Terry's broken into her place and he's in the fucking bathroom with her. He grabbed a breast. She screamed for him to get out. He starts shushing her while she keeps yelling, get out. It's fucking weird from this.

Like, shh, shh, shh. He keeps, she keeps yelling, get out. And then he runs out of her apartment downstairs into his unit. Also, November of 1994, more than a year after the murders of the three children in West Memphis, Hobbs gets into an altercation with his wife Pam hits her in the face. Later that same night, her brother, his brother-in-law Jackie Junior Hicks comes over and they get into an altercation and Terry fucking shoots him. Terry Hobbs later states he shot Jackie Jr in self-defense. Jackie Jr will survive the shooting but will die years later as a result of complications pertaining to his injuries from the shooting.

Hobbs gets sentenced to six months in prison for aggravated assault. And there's so much more about Terry. Pam will later say that Terry used to complain a lot about how she paid more attention to her son Stevie than she did to him. A whole bunch of family members and family friends, even Terry's best bud, David Jacoby, will speak with documentary producers and others about how Terry did not like Stevie. Was jealous of him? They all agreed he used to beat Stevie far more than other kids. Terry was witness disciplining Stevie by making him stand and raise his hands high up in the air, then he grabs Stevie by his fucking hair on the top of his head, pull up so he's on his tippy

toes and wail his ass with a belt, hard enough to leave marks. He admits to that in the deposition. There's more, there's so much more. Stevie's aunt, Judy Sadler, just eight years older than Stevie, said that Stevie told him not long before he was killed that Terry was coming into his room at night when he's trying to go to sleep and would make him watch him masturbate Judy also suspected Terry of sexually abusing Stevie's sister Amanda and now check this out this is real incriminating of true another one of Stevie's

aunts JoLynn Macae alleged that she saw Terry Hobbs doing laundry on the night of the murders she was in the Hobbs home that night, suspects he was doing that to wash the blood and mud off his clothes after he killed the boys. She also said she saw him with bleach, said he went into Stevie's room to clean with bleach. This was all memorable to her because prior to this she had literally never seen Terry clean a goddamn thing a single time in his fucking life. Terry denied doing laundry or cleaning the day of the murders. Then Pam, Stevie's mom, remembered that Terry changed clothes that night, found that atypical.

Did I mention that Terry was never a suspect? Police barely spoke with him after the kids were killed. Why bother when they knew Damien, Jason and Jesse did it, right? They didn't pursue Terry because they were blinded by satanic panic nonsense. Then Stevie's mom, Pam, stated that one of Stevie's pocket knives, this is big, would you always carry with him a knife she was certain Stevie had on him the day he was murdered? Later found among Terry's possessions.

After she and Terry got a divorce. So much shit pointing to Terry being the killer. Years after the murders, three young men will claim that a nephew of Terry's told them that Terry's involvement in the murders was a family secret. 20-year-old Blake Siske called a tip line, December 11, 2011. He'd been a friend of Michael Hobbs Jr., nephew of Terry Hobbs. Michael lived in Mountain Hall, Arkansas, where his dad, Michael Sr., Terry's brother, ran a restaurant.

He said that when he was 12 or 13, he and Michael Jr. playing football in the yard. When they're done, they go inside, they go down into the basement to play some pool. Michael Jr. and his dad, uh, I'm sorry. Michael Jr. said his dad and his uncle Terry were already down there. On the way down, Michael Sr. tells the boys to go back upstairs. He and Terry need to talk. Now Blake and Michael Jr. as kids do, Eaves dropped. He said they heard Terry crying, heard him say, I'm sorry for what happened. I regret it. Not remarkable by itself, but then number of years later, Blake is driving around with Michael Jr. and another friend of theirs, Cody Gott.

Cody and Blake remembered thinking, some was off about Michael Jr. He was typically friendly, outspoken, now he's quiet, he's sullen. When Blake asks him what's wrong, he tells him straight up that his dad told him that Terry killed those kids. Straight up. His dad called it the Hobbes family secret. Third unnamed friend also later hears Michael Jr. say his uncle killed those three kids and was not kidding. All three of these friends take polygraphs. Later about their statements I know these you know

polygraph tests are not reliable but the administrator did believe these kids were telling the truth and there's still a lot more. In his deposition Terry is asked straight up did you see Stevie at all that day, May the 5th? Without hesitation he says no I did not. He repeated that answer when asked if he saw any of the boys that day. No I did not. But a neighbor of his who lived three houses down, Jamie Ballard, stated that she and her family went to church around the time of the murders every Wednesday night, never missed.

Boys were killed on a Wednesday night. Jamie said that she and her family would always leave around the same time, about 6.30pm to get there on time. She said that she and her family for sure saw all three murdered boys riding their bikes on the street in front of their house at 6.30 the night they were killed. She interacted with them, yelled at Christopher to go home because she'd seen his brother and his brother said he wanted him home. Chris yelled back to her, he didn't have to do what she says. Boys keep riding their bikes. Then after seeing the boys, Jamie and their family see Terry.

Terry's walking down the sidewalk towards the boys. He yells at them, y'all come back down here. And she said that the boys rode their bikes towards Terry as Jamie and her family drive off towards church. Unless she and her family are lying. This is damning evidence. It would mean that the last person with the boys before they disappeared was Terry Hopps. And more importantly, that he lied about that.

Terry also said he was never alone the night the boys were killed. But his primary alibi, Best Bud, David Jacobi, has since stated that's a lie. Said that Terry left his place alone at least two different times the night the boys died. Could remember for how long each time. Investigators have said it would only take about 20 minutes to tie the boys up, kill them, toss them into the pond along with their bikes. Years later, more evidence against Hobbes is presented. Before I share that, I just want to add one more thing. Me personally, one thing that stood out to me about Terry was in the old news footage

of family members looking for the boys and footage of Pam being told her son Stevie has been found dead. Everyone's crying. Men, women, children, obviously in emotional distress. When Pam and Terry are later interviewed on her all the way over to Vera, she's very emotional. She's emotional to original trials. One person with Pam throughout all of this is never outwardly emotional.

The only person I remembered noticing never got emotional about any of this that was related to the kids. And that's Terry Hopps. Never shed the tear, never looked sad. I know that doesn't equate to guilt, but it's fucking suspicious to me. March 27, 2013, attorneys for Pamela Hobbs reveal in court that she now believes Terry Hobbs was responsible for the murders, including her son. She came to believe he did it based mostly on accusations made in an affidavit from a witness named Benny Guy. Benny claimed that there were four people involved in the murders of the three boys, and two of the killers had

confessed to him. He said a man named Buddy Lucas confided in him a year after the murders. Guy's affidavit stated, I asked, what did you do? He then said, me, LG, Hollingsworth and two men, we was there with them boys, we did it. Guy said he didn't tell anyone because he didn't want the boy to get into trouble for something I could not believe he had done. In 1995, Benny Guy was in jail with Hollingsworth. Hollingsworth said Buddy Lucas told him about the murders. He wanted to detail about the murders, which he claimed were committed by Buddy, Terry Hobbs and David Jacoby.

Another affidavit, corroborating all this, came in from a drug dealer named Billy Wayne Stewart. Stewart and Guy both wrote that on May 5, 1993, Terry Hobbs, David Jacoby and two teens, L.G. Hollinsworth and Buddy Lucas, came to his house looking to buy some weed. Hobbs will be arrested for buying weed years later, so it's not like this will be out of character for him to do. While Stewart sold the weed to the two teens, he said he saw Hobbes and Jacobi in a truck across the street making out.

I told you they were best buds, real close friends. Stewart said that Hobbes was bisexual and that he was rumored to be sexually attracted to young boys. Real young. Hobbes had invited Stewart's 10-year-old son to pool parties. He refused to ever let his son go. In April of 1995, Buddy Lucas claimed that on the night of May 5, 1993 himself, Hollinsworth, Hobbs and Jacoby, were smoking weed, drinking whiskey after leaving Stewart's place.

They went down a dirt road by the Blue Beacon truck wash. At that point, Terry asked the two teens to get out of the truck and wrestle. While he and Jacoby watched them wrestle. Buddy Lucas did not specifically say that the wrestling turned into sexual activity involving himself. Hollinsworth and the two men but Billy Stewart believed that happened. Is that what little Aaron Hetchinson told his mom Vicki about when he's talking about men taking their clothes off and having sex with each other?

You know, he's babbling about fucking dragon t-shirts and people speaking Spanish. Was he talking about these guys? In his affidavit, he said that Buddy lowered his head and seemed ashamed, which made it clear that there was more going on between the boys and the men than what Buddy just told me. At this time, the three boys showed up in the woods, in the wrong place at the wrong time. According to Stewart, Buddy Lucas told him, Terry screamed, Get them little fuckers! Jacobi grabbed, started beating one of the kids.

Hobbs ordered Lucas and Hollinsworth to pull off his pants. Stewart's affidavit stated, Mr. Hobbs walked over to the boy that Mr. Jacobi had been beating and repeatedly bit the boys' penis and scrotum and Then cut the boys gentiles Hobbes said that the other two had to be killed because of what they saw Hobbes and Jacoby then killed him According to Benny guys affidavit Hobbes became enraged with one of the boys began kicking him He hit the boy in the head and yell I'm gonna teach you. I'm gonna teach your fucking ass Hollinsworth said he buddy in the two older men participated in beating the three

boys. He confirmed Buddy's statement that Hobbs ordered the teens to remove the boys' pants and cut the victim's genitals. Billy Stewart claimed that he tried to call West Memphis investigator Bill Sanders in 1995, telling him what he heard from Buddy Lucas. Sanders never called him back. Guys that he contacted the prosecutor and detective didn't hear back. Now, are these guys also lying? Is this just more bullshit? Yeah, maybe. Who the fuck knows?

But this story is no crazier than what Damien, Jason, and Jesse were accused of, right? At the very least, this kind of shit should have been discussed during an appeal or something. So will Terry ever be investigated? It's doubtful because of that Alfred plea. Technically, the state already got their men. Technically, the West Memphis 3, still guilty, killing those boys. They are continuing to try and get their names truly cleared and the real killer or real killers tried though. The West Memphis 3 have spent years after their release trying to rebuild their lives.

Sources state that Jesse still lives in West Memphis, tries to keep a low profile. Jason earned his GED, took college courses in prison, then took a trip to Seattle, started to stay there for a few years. 2017 he moved to Austin, founded a non-profit called Proclaim Justice that helps wrongfully convicted individuals. According to a 2023 auction article, Damien lives in New York City with his wife, Lori Davis, where they've been since his release. However, other sources say that during the pandemic, at least for a while, the couple moved to New Orleans. Damien has published three books. His most recent book was published in 2018,

and is titled High Magic, a Guide to the Spiritual Practices that Saved My Life on Death Row. Now, let's pop out of the timeline for some more information, I promise. I haven't forgot about the turtles. Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely. about the turtles. Before I share a quick word about turtles and general mutilation, seriously I will, another quick sponsor.

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Billy Suss no beans some breast chili. It's the tits. There's a little nip in every bite Hot chili sounds fucking disgusting Whatever, you know sponsor sponsor now. Let's talk about turtles and nuts Hot chili sounds fucking disgusting. Whatever. You know, sponsor to sponsor. Now let's talk about turtles and nuts. The producers of Peter Jackson's West of Memphis documentary. If you're very confused about that, it's referenced to a different episode. Producers of Peter Jackson's West of Memphis documentary hired noted forensic pathologist

Dr. Vincent DeMio to look at the forensic interpretations of the boys' autopsies. Specifically the genital mutilation, that's such a big part of the trial, to convict Damon, Damien and Jason. Satanic ritual, genital mutilation, committed under the light of a full moon. Vincent said that he does not believe the boy's genitals were sexually mutilated, or at least not nearly to the degree as claimed. As he said that to his trained eye, it was obvious that many of the wounds found in the boys were attributed to being caused, that were attributed, excuse me, as being caused

by a serrated knife, were not caused by a knife and did not occur when the boys were alive. He said it was obvious to him that the wounds occurred after death due to a lack of bleeding to the side of the wounds and other indicators. Right? Remember all the occult speculation about the victims having their blood drained? No. He said they didn't bleed from all the cuts on them because many of these cuts occurred

after they were dead, lying at the bottom of a pond. He firmly believes that these occult ritual injuries were not even caused by a human. They were caused by wild animals after death, almost certainly turtles. I know this sounds weird. The pond where the bodies were taken from was called Turtle City by Neighborhood Kids. It's fucking loaded with turtles. Several different kinds, box turtles, painted turtles, alligator turtles, big ones, and hundreds of them.

Kids have seen these alligator turtles chewing on dead animals on a bunch of different occasions around the pond. And an animal expert in the west of Memphis Dock showed how the bite wounds these turtles leave look exactly like various wounds on the victim's bodies. And then using a dead pig as a demonstration how these turtles will eat soft tissue first. Specifically, they tend to go for the penis and scrotum right away. Like they went directly for the pig scrotum. They went fucking hog on them nuts. So were these kids genitals ritually mutilated? Or were they fucking chewed on by turtles? The Docks producers hired six different independent noted forensic pathologists, Vincent DeMaio,

MD5 others, none of them told who else had examined the autopsy report or what conclusions they had come to. They all came to their own independent conclusions and all six of these motherfuckers came to the exact same conclusion. Animals. Animals biting and scratching these kids remains is what led to the wounds presented to the jury as evidence of satanic ritual abuse. How fucking random, right? Had that information been presented to the trial, would have blown a huge hole in the prosecution's arguments

against Damien, Jesse, and Jason. What a mess, right? And I know it also blows a hole in this allegations against Terry Hobbs as well. There is a chance that the genitals to the one boy, I guess, could have been cut and then, you know, the fucking turtles munch on the fucking wound after it's been cut. It's a mess. No wonder a bunch of people got involved in this case and worked to help free the West Memphis three, right? It's just a travity justice.

What had never happened if you remove the element of satanic panic from all of this? Had Jerry Driver, a juvenile probation officer, who should have never been working as an occult expert because he didn't know shit? Had he not been working with West Memphis law enforcement and never pointed his dumb fucking finger at Damien Nichols at the initial crime scene, you know, it wouldn't have gotten everybody riled up about a bloodthirsty, evil, Satanic cabal in West Memphis. And I don't think Damien, Jesse, or Jason would have ever been on the police's radar. They would have never been seriously questioned. What evidence was there of their guilt?

A heavily tainted confession, and a bunch of people lying their asses off, making up stories about the weird kid, his friends. This is why appeals are so important. I'm still pro-death penalty after hearing a story like this, but I'm also still pro-appeals process, especially when there's a lack of forensic evidence to help convict a killer. Also, our judicial system needs to show a lot more discernment, and maybe they do now when it comes to expert witnesses. Some dipshit with a mail order degree should not be allowed to testify about how a fucking full moon and

the number eight are important clues in a murder case. That's embarrassing. The whole misguided focus on the occult in this case is embarrassing. Right? Non-Christian spiritual beliefs do not equate to evil satanic beliefs. So glad that the West Memphis, uh, you know, three are still not riding in prison. And if one of those guys were to kill I don't know Terry hops or Jerry driver or prosecutor John Fogelman the next couple years Could they maybe get credit for time served applied towards her sentencing? I mean it seems fair to me and you know it just tossing out, you know spitball If they divided those murders, you know between the three of them well, they could take out all those fuckheads I'm not suggesting that they should do it. Just, you know, I don't know,

maybe something we should think about. Time for today's takeaways. Time, Chuck, tough five takeaways. Number one, the victims in this case were three eight year old boys. Don't want to distract too much from that, Christopher Byers, Michael Moore, Stevie Branch, all innocent. Although the West Memphis three have not been legally exonerated, many believe these murders are unsolved and that Terry Hobbs is very likely at least one of the real killers. Number two, religious discrimination. The satanic panic are at the heart of this case. Damien Nichols became a prime suspect because local authorities knew he believed in Wicca,

which they kept wrongly insisting was Satanic. Damien had been in trouble with the law, he wore black t-shirts, he liked to read horror fiction, listened to heavy metal, learned about topics like witchcraft and blood magic, maybe suck a little blood, and because of all that Damien was accused by a Jerry dipshit driver of being a Satanic cult ringleader of the West Memphis Three and wanting to murder children as a part of some occult ritual to get special powers. Number three on June 3, 1993, Jesse Miss Kelly made a confession that implicated himself, Damien and Jason in three murders. He claimed that while he was a minor participant, Damien and Jason sexually abused and mutilated

the victims and then soon recanted his confession. His defense argued that a combination of his low IQ and coercive interview tactics caused him to submit to police pressure and make a false confession. Nevertheless, his confession was the first major domino to fall that would lead to three murder convictions. Number four, fucking turtles. If you want to have an open casket funeral where your full body will be presented in the nude, don't die in a turtle-infested pond or replace one after death because some turtles apparently uh love to feast on some cock-a-balls.

Number five, new info. A few more words about legal developments in this case over the past couple years. In 2020, Damien's legal team fought to get access to some evidence they felt could exonerate the West Memphis Three. But then in the summer of 2021, they learned from prosecuting attorney Keith Cressman that a fire destroyed most of that evidence years ago. Sorry about that,. Can't test it again because the fire got it for sure. Stembrough of 2021, Damien's attorneys now filed a lawsuit against the West Memphis Police Department claiming they did not comply with Freedom Information Act requests asking for information

and evidence that they could have got that information before this fire. Lawyers alleged that the department might have intentionally and illegally destroyed evidence that could prove Damien's innocence. And then, December of 2021, Damien's lawyers finally able to review the evidence in question and it had not been destroyed. It was all right where it was supposed to be and cataloged. People lied to him. Lani Sarri, a member of Damien's legal defense team, said, We're looking for the real killers. It's not only to exonerate Damien, Jason and Jesse, but find the real killers. We went to the police department, found the evidence package, beautifully packed and preserved in excellent condition.

Why were they told it was destroyed? Damien feels like they were lied to in hopes that they would just finally give up. Right. What is the state hiding? The defense discovered the shoelaces used to bind the victims. Damien's lawyers want to test the shoelaces now with this MVAC, this new machine that can vacuum up tiny amounts of DNA for testing and, you know, match things more conclusively. They hope this will officially exonerate the West Memphis 3.

Quite possibly open up a new murder trial against Terry Hobbs. But then June 23, 2022, a judge denies the attorney's request to test this evidence. Judge ruled it wasn't within Damien's rights because retesting is only available for people in state custody, not people free but still suspected like Damien. Damien said in response to the decision, we have a way in our hands where they can see who killed these children and they're refusing to do anything about it. In August of 2022, Damien's attorneys announced they were appealing this ruling. If the DNA testing does exonerate the men, they are still not legally cleared because

of their alphard plea, but they can file an actual innocence claim, which would ask the courts to set the convictions aside or will allow the state to admit that they were wrong, not that they will. There's a chance. January of 2023, Damien's legal team appealed to the Arkansas Supreme Court. The Innocence Project and the Center on Wrongful Convictions filed motions in his favor. In April, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Damien's appeal, denied the attorney general's efforts to delay the decision to refuse DNA testing. But then in May, the deputy solicitor general from the Arkansas Attorney General's office filed a brief argument that Eccles had

used enough time and resources and once a matter fucking dropped. Deputy Solicitor Dylan Jacobs wrote, yet over a decade after his release, Echols now seeks to further waste judicial resources to challenge the conviction he negotiated for. He should not be allowed to. The General Assembly made post-conviction DNA testing available to set free innocent prisoners, not recenter the limelight on freed felons.

Oh man, come on Dylan, you piece of shit. Let the man clear his fucking name you douchebag. Mayor of West Memphis, Marco McClendon has said that this has been a dark cloud hanging over the city for years and he wants the truth whatever it is. So let Arkansas, you know right, like let fucking people have the truth Arkansas. Atone for your sins. It's possible. We will see further updates in this case in early 2024. I certainly hope so. Damien does not appear to be even close to done fighting for his name to be exonerated. Time Suck, Top 5 Takeaways!

Satanic Panic and the West Memphis 3 murders have been sucked. I hope you found that as fascinating as I did. Infuriating, but fascinating. Thank you to the Queen of Bad Magic, the rest of the team, including Suck Ranger Tyler C, recording this show. Olivia Lee, providing initial research this week. Thanks to our Space Lizards on Patreon for continuing to support this show. Get early release, add free episodes. Thanks to the All-Seeing Eyes, moderating the Culticurious Private Facebook page, ModSquad. Making sure the Discord channel stays fun. And thanks to everyone over on the TimeSucker

subreddit and Bad Magic subreddit. Also go to badmagicmerch.com for any and all of your Bad Magic merch needs. Check for new stuff. And now let's head on over to this week's TimeSucker updates. Updates! Get your time, sucker! Updates! First up, this email really cracked up Lindsay. Savvy Sucker, Colin Falls, has identified an early time-suck subject as a possible gigachat. Colin writes in with the subject of Richard Kuklinski. Gigachat? Hopefully you get around to reading this. I'm a big fan of being going back into the archives to listen to all the older episodes, which brought me to the Richard Kuklinski Ice Man episode. I'd recently listened to the episode about incels, and then listening to this episode,

I was surprised at how easily the Ice Man seemed to meet women and form relationships. I had to look into it. He's not a conventionally attractive guy, but he's 6'5", and very strong, and has a sizable noggin. Heightmog, Strengthmog, Skolmog, Check, Check, Check. Haha! That probably brings into chat level. But it wasn't until the end of the podcast that I could confirm what locked him into

gigachat status. When arrested, they had to use ankle cuffs on his wrist because his wrists were too big. That's high level wristmoggin. And easily pushed him into the gig around. Thank you for educating me about the important issues. Three out of five stars wouldn't change a thing. That's great and very important observation, Colin. Yes, yes, the Iceman, clearly a gigachat.

Some of the women he was with probably didn't even care that he was a mafia hit man, right? Because of how fucking hot his giant wrists were. Next up, Super Sucker Sean Morris is in love. He writes in to share some of his love with us with the subject line of, Hail Lucifina, Nimrod, avert your flaming eyes. Hail Reverend Dr. Master the Suck, long-time listener, spacelesser here. I have an interesting request for you today, if you don't mind. I'm sliding this in early, pun totally intended, so that it's timely. My anniversary is February 29th.

That's right. I found an insane woman that was willing to not only marry me, but do it on leap day. It would absolutely make her day if you could give Ziya a shout out for our anniversary. We've been married 20 years, but it's our seventh wedding anniversary. She's the love of my life and the embodiment of Lucifina for me. Thanks to you and the entire Bad Magic crew for everything they do to continue to make time suck the best damn podcast we've ever listened to thank you PS in cell Kemper was one of my favorite uses for Kemper to date keep it up champ Sean I forgot this year was leap year nice

I love that you and your Lucifina were married on leap day Happy anniversary to Ziya the smoke show may you pack four years? We're the fucking into one hot day tell Lucifina and I love how much you two are still in love after 28 years. That's very inspiring, Sean. Next up, an anonymous prison update. Very information, uh, info or informationally packed. Regarding a recent chili master we sucked. This anonymous sucker writes in shares some inside prison details with us all with the

subject line of I have met too many murderers. Riverside killer update. Dan, please keep my keep my name anonymous. If you read this message as I could get in trouble with my job, I will just say I want everybody to know not Pat Sejak. His name was not Pat Sejak. I can't make that clear enough. This is not Pat Sejak. I'm a correctional officer in Illinois who works around some of the most vile examples of the human species. My first year on the job was spent in a housing unit with three galleries dedicated to sex offenders.

I've worked or trained at several prisons across the state, including some that have housed the worst serial killers in the state's history, including John Wayne Gacy, Robert Ben Rhodes, Robin Gecht from the Ripper Crew, and several lesser known Chicago area serial killers. The one thing I've learned while working in a prison is that so many criminals look like everyday people you see outside of the joint. There are definitely some tatted up muscle bound gangsters but a large number of men in prison are soft spoken, educated men, who you wouldn't believe capable of more than tax fraud but are in fact rapists or murderers.

Imagine my thoughts when I find out an inmate who acts goofy and jokes with the officers and is in trusted positions to clean or work, is in prison for beating his one-year-old to death, or several counts of sexual assault. I once had a conversation with a kind, old, wheelchair-bound black man who worked for the prison chaplain before learning he's actually one of the Chicago area's most prolific murderers. He admitted to 40 or more murderers after being suspected of around 15, but ultimately took a plea deal and was only convicted to one count.

The William Suff story was especially hard for me to listen to. I am not usually one to be bothered by the gory aspects of the story, but as the father of a two-month-old daughter, it was hard to listen to certain parts, as you can imagine. I would love to hear the Riverside Killer got what he deserves in prison, but this is unlikely. The prison doesn't like the other inmates to hand out punishment. Inmates with certain types of charges are often housed together to avoid this type of behavior. Why would one sex offender or violent killer be handed justice by someone who is essentially in the same place for the same thing?

Things definitely are not the same as they used to be in the prison system, at least in Illinois. We give every inmate tablets, Christmas presents, unlimited opportunities for recreation, slackening punishment for the breaking of rules, etc. We aren't even allowed to call them inmates or offenders anymore. We call them individuals in custody and so much as abbreviating it as IIC can get us in trouble. This is all to say that of all the blood and gore and terrible things I've seen in prison, one of the most disturbing things is how normal many men seem. When you look This is all to say that of all the blood and gore and terrible things I've seen in prison, one of the most disturbing things is how normal many men seem.

When you look them up, I've done the most vile things. Many inmates are skilled tradesmen. We take advantage of that. Talented musicians, great cooks, you name it. It really makes you wonder what people around you are up to. One last funny story, I was with a team of two other officers because we had to take a couple of inmates to a doctor's visit. I looked at one man's file and read out loud that his case involved violence against an old woman

The guy's victim was an old lady. I said the other inmate laughed and said damn all the mine were hookers He had beaten tortured and raped dozens of sex workers in Chicago and claimed you did nothing wrong because he eventually let them go and Still paid them he and William Suff would have gotten along swell Anyway, that's all I have if you are still taking recommendations for topics. I definitely am them go and still paid them. He and William Suff would have gotten along swell. Anyway, that's all I have. If you are still taking recommendations for topics, I definitely am. Uh, please look into the Turpin family. It's a crazy story and I'm waiting for you to talk about it for years.

There was a great 2020 episode on it titled Escape from a House of Horror. Thanks for all that you do and keep on sucking anonymous. Well, thanks for the inside scoop anonymous. Whenever I'm talking to something that plays as somebody's expertise, I love to get those messages because you're gonna provide a perspective I can't. Yeah, I was hoping that life inside was a lot rougher for fuckers like William Suff. It's a bummer. I'm gonna try and forget some of what you said and still imagine that he's being brutalized daily. And it is so scary that these guys truly seem like, you know, a lot of the rest of us. You know, it's too bad that these guys truly seem like, you know, a lot of the rest of us, you

know, it's too bad that evil isn't more easily identifiable. It's too bad that in a perfect world, like, you know, somebody puts evil on their fucking knuckles, like Damien Eccles, and they that is somebody who does something like always every time. But that's not the way life works. And I've added the turpent family to a little list I have going. Yeah, that is disturbing. Uh, last up, happy sack. Dan Narona is kicking life in the fucking dick.

And I love it. He writes in with the subject line of I don't like podcasts or no, excuse me. I didn't like podcasts. And then writes, feel free to use this on the air. If you feel so inclined, but my motivation behind writing it is just to truly express my greatest gratitude to the entire bad magic family to Dan or whomever typically reads these. My name is Dan. I love your phonetic guide, Duh Ann. Know this is not you from the future writing to Warren that the Illusory Illuminati is

real, and to change course immediately, you should be receiving that email next week. Let me first say I am not sorry for the length of this email because this is the shortest I could edit it down to. That being said, I have to admit, I used to think podcasts were pointless. To listen to someone droning on and on about their opinions on this and that was as far as I was concerned about as interesting as watching paint dry. I get it. To explain how that has changed, I needed to take my own brief time suck timeline. The pandemic was rough for a lot of people and I was no exception. Physically, I was fine and had a clear bill of health, but mentally I was far from it. I had all but attempted to leave the big chat room we call life and my outlook towards the future

was dismal at best. I was fighting addiction, barely working, endlessly broke, and owing someone something. It was pretty bad to summarize without giving you the nasty details. It was during this time I came across your podcast somehow. I wish I had a fantastic story behind that, but honestly don't remember how I found it. After rolling through some topics, episode 53 caught my eye. I've always been fascinated with Teddy Roosevelt and all the things he accomplished in his life, so I hit play and the rest is history. It was your podcast that renewed my passion for knowledge, your voice that made me realize I needed to pull myself out of this place I was in and put my energy into something positive

and constructive It was either restored not only my faith in humanity, but my faith in myself I did what anyone would do with that newfound love of life. I decided to build a race car Well race truck would be more appropriate. It's fucking awesome The point is as I welded and wired and grinded you were there with me filling What would have been the silence between tools running with absolute nonsense from that sick, sick place you call a brain. As I drove to my first race, your podcast was what got my head in the right spot to get over the nervousness of what I was about to do. And it was, of course, you I listened to as I towed home the wrecked race truck after its first attempt at racing.

I have built my own business up from the ground since then, a business that according to my CPA should easily clear half a million dollars next year. Woo! That's fucking awesome! With current trends continuing and have even brought home a few trophies while racing in my spare time. As I have long ago caught up on time suck and the secret suck rest in peace, I've started to catch up on scared to death. I love that you and Lindsay work so great together, both on air and off air, even though she fucking will not submit. That still is. I read this. No, uh, and I'm so grateful to you both and the entire bad magic crew for everything you've done and continue to do. I have, however, stopped buying bananas from the grocery store and will always imagine and speaking of British accents. So fuck you for that. Please keep doing what you do

full time, part time, sometimes, but make sure to enjoy your own lives as well. Us faithful suckers are more patient and understanding than it seems, and some Dan will always be better than no Dan, a lesson I've come to learn as well. Faithfully yours, Florida Dan. P.S. give a shout out to my sister, or please give a shout out to my sister Angie and brother in law Barton.

If you do read this on the air, I got them hooked a couple weeks in. Dan, I love messages like these. Truly, truly they fill my heart with joy. I'm so happy to have been with you on your journey to self fulfillment. Love that you have found your bliss. I love the erasing trucks. That's awesome. And you're enjoying the fuck out of your laps around the sun on this weird,

dark, but also magical and beautiful rock. Hail Nimrod. Keep enjoying what you do. Thank you, Angie and, uh, Barton for taking a chance on this weird world. Is it? All right, I don't want to fight. Yeah, Barton. Okay.

Make sure I didn't fuck it up. I wrote Baron second, but the first time was Barton, but maybe it's Baron. You know what? I'll say it's thank you, Todd. I said, you know what? We'll cover our bases. It's it's Barton Baron. Unfortunate name.

It's Barton Baron. Uh, keep encouraging Florida Dan to keep kicking ass and hail Nimrod. Thanks for these messages. Yeah, any topic suggestions or messages like this, you can just keep emailing them to bojangles at timesecpodcast.com. Thanks to Liston to another Bad Magic Productions podcast, Scared to Death, Time Sucked Each Week. Please don't arrest anyone for killing three kids because they listen to Metallica, Receiving King, and have Orgiz in the Woods with their witch buddies.

Satan is not murdering anyone, but we meet sacks of all creeds all on our own without divine intervention, continued to murder people every single day. Stay focused on real world evidence and keep on sucking I almost forgot to talk about I don't know if you guys heard that the members of Striper have taken a break from touring to focus on a new law firm. Yeah, the Sweet Brothers, Michael and Robert, opened to hell with the devil heavenly legal consultation back on December 1st.

If you have a case where you think satanic powers are involved, you can call them up and if they determine that Beelzebub is behind any instances where you've been legally wronged, they will take on your case for free. To find out if you're eligible, just call 1-666- To help with the devil To help with the devil!