Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 387 - Evil Eyes: Carl "The Sunday Morning Slasher" Watts

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

The Sunday Morning Slasher, Carl Watts, is thought to have killed over 100 women between Michigan and Texas, from 1974 to 1982. He's also the only US serial killer ever to almost be released from prison AFTER confessing to 13 murders in a plea deal. This guy was a creepy killing MACHINE. Applications for four, $5,000 Cummins Family Foundation scholarships will open up on March 6th! Applications will be due by April 24th. Visit Badmagicproductions.com and click the scholarship banner to be linked over to the Scholarship America application!Watch the Suck on YouTube:Merch: https://www.badmagicmerch.comTimesuck Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious Private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch-related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard? Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast.Sign up through Patreon, and for $5 a month, you get access to the entire Secret Suck catalog (295 episodes) PLUS the entire catalog of Timesuck, AD FREE. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. And you get the download link for my secret standup album, Feel the Heat. 

Carl Eugene Watts was an especially prolific American serial killer known as the Sunday Morning Slasher. He may have been the most prolific serial killer in US history. And he nearly became the only confirmed serial killer in US history to be released from prison. Released by officials who knew he was a serial killer, officials who did not want to release him knew he was incredibly dangerous and would kill again, but had no choice but to release him. One of the craziest loopholes ever, just about, like so close, it came to putting this psycho back on the streets.

Some women, this killing machine would have certainly brutally murdered very narrowly dodged a bullet. Watts was an opportunistic killer who assaulted and murdered many women. Some speculate over a hundred during an eight-year reign of terror between 1974 and 1982 when he lived in both Michigan and Texas. No one really understands how Carl chose his victims, almost exclusively young, attractive white women. It seems like he would just notice some woman that fit his killing type in public, then stalk her until he felt the moment was right to strike. He would typically sneak up behind his unsuspecting victim, grab her, then strangle her, stab her

to death, or sometimes drown her. And then occasionally, seemingly high on killing, he would quickly attack some other woman who just happened to be nearby. One time he attacked a woman while still covered in blood from the previous woman he killed. One string of murders in Ann Arbor, Michigan occurred on Sunday mornings, and the brutal stabbing gave him his Sunday morning slasher nickname. Watts was real hard to catch. He was smart, very smart, he seemed to know whenever the police were watching him, he

never lingered at a crime scene, he struck quickly, retreated even quicker, he had no sexual interest in his victims, and the speed of his attacks left very few eye witnesses. Some of his attacks lasted just a few seconds. The woman never saw her attacker, who after a few slashes or stabs, or after some maybe brutal punch to her windpipe, just fled off into the night. His murders were astonishingly brutal. Very often took place near his victims' homes.

It was like he would allow them to almost make it home safely before savagely taking their lives. One victim was stabbed over 50 times. Sometimes he didn't flee so quickly. Carl Watts' murderous fate seems to have been sealed pretty early on in life. He began having fantasies and nightmares about him brutally murdering women by his own admission

at the age of 12, And he liked those nightmares. A lot. He committed his first known violent assault on a woman at the age of just 15, and then his homicidal fantasies became a reality no later than 1974, when it's believed he killed the first victim while studying at Western Michigan University. This is another crazy true crime story. This week, I'll discuss the many, many crimes of Carl Eugene Watts, a man who terrified his own defense attorney when he was finally caught.

I'll share how he was finally captured, how he very nearly became the first known serial killer to be released from prison on another true crime. I know I just sucked a serial killer last week, but damn it! Don't you round my samples up, mother! I still really wanted to suck this psycho. This week, holy hell, there are so many sick and strange people living amongst us. Addition of Time Suck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to Time Suck.

You're listening to Time Suck. Feliz lunes, sacos de carne. Happy Monday, meet sacks. Welcome to the Cult of the Curious. Soy Dan Cummins, el maestro tonto, entranador de lucha femenina, abuela, predictora, amante de las bicicletas usadas y estás echando time-sack. That's all the fucking Spanish I have. All right, in me today. Todo inglés hoy en salar a pollo, perro, gordo, Antonio Mendes. Hell, Nimrod. Hell is a fina. Praise be to good boy Bojangles. And glory be to Triple M. Just a couple quick things, and then another weird show. Weird, sure. Or weird, sure. There's a couple of things, no more show. Then a weird show. Thanks sure or we're sure and there's a couple of things no more show

Then a weird show Thanks for all the love for my new nightmare fuel project over on scared to death on that feed First episode seems to have been enjoyed by so many of you meet sacks and it makes me so happy if you haven't heard nightmare fuel is It's kind of like my companion piece to the short sucks here on time suck Just give me ideally two shorter episodes a month. Just me, just telling a story to you, not a supposedly true found horror story from the web. No, these are original stories that I've written trying my hand at horror fiction and the first swing was a lot of fun. So I'm getting ready

to record the second one here soon and excited about it. Quick note about the 2025 Wet Hot Bad Magic Summer Camp based on feedback from a lot of you wanting to have more time to plan, we're gonna open up sales for tickets well in advance. Tickets will be going on sale for the 2025 Summer Camp at the end of March or the beginning of April this year. Lindsay working through legal contracts, all that boring but necessary stuff.

Just wanted to give you a little heads up that is coming. There will be more newly built private accommodations this next go round. And as soon as the details are locked down, I'll share, you know, here on the show and on social media, what's up? Last thing round two of the Cummins Family Scholarship Fund presented by Bad Magic is here or will be soon. Bad Magic fans can begin applying for one of four $5,000 scholarships as of March 6th, applications due by April 24th.

Excited to increase the number of scholarships from three to four this year, thanks to each and every Space Lizard who has helped make that happen. You can visit BadMagicProductions.com and click the scholarship banner to be linked over to the Scholarship America application. Easy peasy. We'll include info in the episode description for you to make it that much easier for you to remember. And now, today's insanity. Not much introduction is necessary to tell the story of unapologetic maniac killer Carl Watts. I'll start off with a brief overview of the number of kills attributed to some other prolific American serial killers to put his crimes in context, followed by the full timeline

of Carl from birth to death. And we are off. I already said that Carl is believed to be among the most prolific killer killers in the U.S., possibly the most prolific. So why is his name nowhere near as well known as other serial killers, most of whom, you know, have already been covered here on Time Suck, like Ted Bundy. I kind of covered Ted Bundy way back in Episode 11. Need to re-suck him, I know. Just suck the tip back in 2016. Bundy would confess to 36 murders

before he was executed, 20 of his murders were confirmed. Like with Carl, something Bundy may have killed over a hundred women. And like with Carl, Bundy preferred attractive young white women. Bundy primarily killed young women in the Pacific Northwest before going completely berserk in Florida. He often raped his victims before beating them to death and typically lured his victims

to him by pretending to be injured and asking for their help. John Wayne Gacy, Chicago's killer clown, Pogo, sucked subject of Episode 68, convicted of 33 murders. Kentucky Fried chicken loving Gacy targeted teen boys and young men in Illinois and buried most of the victims underneath his house It really did love KFC Right his final meal before his execution included a bucket a KFC's original recipe chicken I'm sure I'm sure the Colonel will be proud. He ate that chicken mere hours before uttering his eloquent last words of kiss my ass Maybe my favorite last words from a serial killer ever.

Gacy lured his victims into his home with the promise of work, tortured them after typically binding them via his infamous handcuff trick before he killed them. At one point, Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer, succs subject 86, Mr. Cleanween himself was the most prolific serial killer in US history after he pled guilty to 49 murders. Claimed he killed up to 80 women in King County, Washington State. And I believe him. He targeted sex workers or girls and women who had run away from home. Then Samuel Little before he died in December of 2020 at the age of 80.

Claimed responsibility for 93 murders across the U.S. over several decades. The FBI has already confirmed over 60 of those cases. FBI also named him the most prolific serial killer in U.S. history. Little started committing his terrible crimes back in the 1950s and continued for damn near six decades. He killed people in 19 states between 1970 and 2005. Going to suck that sneaky son of a bitch one day, been waiting on better sources to provide more details of his decades-long criminal career before I do. Carl Watts, aka the Sunday Morning Slasher, may have killed even more people than Samuel Little.

Watts potentially connected to over 100 murders based on his own confessions and the work of investigators. And after living in this sick fucks, uh, sick head for a few days and becoming familiar with his killing style, I bet he did kill over 100 women. He killed his victims frequently and killed and fled the scene so fast. The vast majority of his murders will likely never be confirmed due to the lack of evidence he left at crime scenes, mainly due to the lack of sexual motivation he had for his crimes or at least his lack of sexual activity at the crime scenes. He beat women with everything but his boner.

Watts was not a rapist. He didn't want to sexually abuse women. He just really, like really, really wanted to kill them. Maybe the most bloodlust of any serial killer I've ever looked into. Let me now familiarize you with this crazy shit bird in today's Time Suck timeline. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a Time Suck timeline. The time is now.

Time is now. Time is now. Time is now. Carl Eugene Watts was born in Colleen, Texas, November 7, 1953. He attacked two nurses and his mother in the delivery room before the doctor was able to use his umbilical cord to choke him the fuck out. Then he was taken to the newborn baby unit of the local prison and put in a cell with another baby who had raped the doctor and strangled his own father on the day of his

birth. Can you imagine if there was really a fucking baby unit in prison? What'd that look like? Set of cells, just a big concrete room full of little cribs with steel prison bars and circling them. Correctional officers sliding milk carefully through bottle shaped slots in the cribs, officers confiscating tiny little shibs. The babies had made out of their bankies, taken to the contraband like drugs,

cell phones, little blankets, doused in chloroform. It's like fucking snuff out of their binkies, taken to the contraband like drugs, cell phones, little blankets, doused in chloroform. It's like, fuck, snuff out of their babies. I don't know why I'm laughing at that. It's fucking so fucked up. Back to reality now. Carl's parents were Richard Eugene Watts and Dorothy Mae Young, getting a dick out of the way real quick today. I've been a little short on Richard's lately.

It's kind of bumming me out. This Richard really was a dick. He was a private first class in the Army who was stationed at Fort Hood near Colleen since 1942. Dorothy was a kindergarten teacher listed as a kindergarten art teacher in some sources. Don't all kindergarten teachers dabble in a fair amount of art instruction. I mean, it's not like they're working with the kids on fractions, you know, doing book reports. You got to kill some time, tracing your hand to draw a turkey and stuff like that. Right.

Couple got married in Colewood, West Virginia, in unincorporated mining town in McDowell County. Colewood. Holy shit. That has to be the most West Virginia name a West Virginia town could ever have. Colewood was founded in 1905 for the express purpose of, well, uh, Cole, mining coal, as you can imagine.

First mined up within a year or two, the town's founding and mining kept the company town alive until the last mine closed in 1986. Damn near everyone who lived there worked for the local mining company. Initially the Carter Coal Company and eventually the Olga Coal Company and they lived in company owned homes. Coal at its peak had about 2,000 people, mostly abandoned today. If you wanna feel better about where you live,

about your town, look up some YouTube videos of Colwood, shot in the past few years. Very eerie modern ghost town, lots of once nice brick buildings, homes, businesses, high school, et cetera, dilapidated and crumbling, being reclaimed by nature.

Looks like a place where scenes from dystopian shows like The Walking Dead have been filmed. If you watch a video and you think it looks nicer in Colwood than where you live, move now! You're not living! You're existing! At least the land that's reclaiming Colwood is gorgeous. West Virginia geography in general is gorgeous. The Watts family didn't stay long in Texas. Returned to Colwood just three days after Carl was born. Carl's sister Sharon Yvonne, born damn near a year to the day after he was on November 10, 1954.

What an older brother she would have. Just a few months after moving to Colwood, Richard left the family with no explanation, never returned. I told you he was a dick. He went out for a pack of smokes and was never seen again. Something that happens so often in these stories and it astounds me every time. Truly just abandoning your family. What a crazy thing to do. And it's crazy that it's happened so many times.

I don't know how people who just, you know, straight up sneak away from their entire family, just abandon their kids, live with themselves. Dorothy will now raise her two children alone in the little company town for several years. She'll then move to Inkster, Michigan, where she got a job as an art teacher. Maybe she was a kindergarten teacher and then later an art teacher. And some sources just jumbled that up.

That would make more sense. Or maybe there's a lot of kindergarten art teachers out there, I don't know about. Inkster is a suburb of Detroit with the current population of around 26,000. In the 50s, about 17,000 people lived there. It looks nice. Quite a bit healthier than Colwood. However, you wouldn't know that from a web search. Google apparently hates Inkster, Michigan. I don't know how Google decides what images show up first when you look up

the name of a town, but the first image that came up for me, and I did numerous searches for Inkster, and this image is kept coming back up It's a photo of vacant lot That's a fucking weed growing and stuff It's just next to what looks like the shitty duplex and in this vacant lots You know next to all the weeds patches of dirt is an old mattress old used mattress laid on top of a beat-up couch You know and on those two things are on top of a bunch of black garbage bags and boards and just junk. Not the best first impression. Welcome to Inkster, where life is a pile of trash.

Despite the distance of about 469 miles between Inkster and Colwood, Dorothy would take her kids to Colwood often to visit her parents. And Carl loved visiting his grandparents. Pretty sure that he never tried to choke, stab, or drown his grandma even one time. Might have thought about it, but never tried. One of his favorite things to do in Coldwood was hunt and skin rabbits with his grandpa. That tracks.

I can see young Carl enjoying killing cute creatures. Carl's grandmother, Lula May Young, spoke with the Houston Chronicle about his childhood after his arrest decades later for multiple murders Saying that he was a slippery little fucker. She said I can't tell you how many times I tried to strangle or drown him But he always wiggled free No, she said he was always a good little boy He was always around me or his mother even when the children got older and some of the boys would be going out at night

Maybe drinking or chasing women or getting in trouble. He stayed right up here with me. He wasn't interested in that sort of thing. Yeah, he probably wasn't interested in chasing girls or drinking. That would, uh, those would never really be his things. But if the other boys were like, Hey, Carl, you want to hang out tonight? Uh, we're going to drive around and look for some random women to quickly and brutally kill. He'd be like, Oh, fuck yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. That was his jam. As a boy, Carl started going by the name Coral because he liked the way his southern relatives pronounce his name. Coral, he would go by Coral for the rest of his life. Sources use both names interchangeably. Since Carl preferred to be called a Coral, I'm going to refer to him as Carl. Back in Inkster, Carl seemed to also be a good kid, didn't get in trouble in school, earned decent grades for a little while. But then in 1961, when Carl was just seven years old, he and his sister Sharon both contracted bacterial meningitis. And I think this infection may have

altered his life dramatically. Honestly, Dorothy took her kids to the Detroit General Hospital. They accepted Sharon, refused to admit Carl because his case was even more serious. He developed a high fever, was sent to the now closed Herman Kiefer Hospital, where he was treated for both meningitis and polio. I'm a child. The hospital name is pretty close to human queefer hospital. I didn't want to think that. I really didn't. But I almost read it that way. The first time I came across it,. I didn't want to think that. I really didn't, but I almost read it that way. The first time I came across it and I didn't want to bear that burden alone. Carl was isolated from other patients

and had to get several spinal taps. He was so sick, he ended up missing most of his third grade year and had to repeat. I feel bad for his mom, Dorothy, both of her kids. While she's still a single parent, come down with a real nasty infection at the same damn time. I'm sure she was worried sick, also exhausted trying to care for her babies and also keep all the bills paid. Special shout out to all the single moms out there. Hail single moms!

Single dads you rock too, but a single dad didn't just come up in the story. So calm down! Take a back seat! Stop trying to make everything about you! For real single moms, good on you when you put your kid or kids first and sacrifice, you know? So much, you know, just to make, you know, you make so many sacrifices you wouldn't have to make if you lived in a better world than this one where you can't seem to throw a rock without hitting a few deadbeat dads. And those of you who did have a great baby daddy in your life, but then he died young and you had to push past grief on top of everything else? Fucking heroes, warriors. Hail Nimrod, hail Lucifina. Also, I think that

bacterial meningitis permanently scrambled Carl's brain. It can give you permanent brain damage and this is just me pulling this out of my head. I think some wires got crossed in Carl's head, and they would stay crossed forever. No doctors have speculated this. No psychologists or psychiatrists have said this. I'm not a doctor or psychologist, psychiatrist, but I believe it. Once he recovered and returned to school, Carl was just different. His attention span had decreased significantly, his grades fell, he started complaining about problems with memory and insomnia, a lot of trouble sleeping, restlessness. Right around the time, Carl recovered from meningitis.

In 1962, his mom Dorothy married a mechanic named Norman Caesar. She also got a new job teaching high schoolers in Inkster. Norman already had six kids. He and Dorothy will have two more together, bringing the total to 10. So big family, big change for Carl. According to Corey Mitchell,

author of a 2006 book about Carl Watts titled Evil Eyes, Carl's sister Sharon said, it was always real quiet and almost shy. He was just very introverted. He was actually very even tempered, mainly because he used to just hold everything in. It would take a lot to get under his skin or to upset him. What exactly was he holding in? We'll find out soon. Carl disliked his stepfather, Norman, and had trouble adapting to the change in his family. He had been the little man of the house, and now Norman, fucking Norman, laying down some loss. Carl was worried about losing his mom, Dorothy's attention.

Is that why he would go on to kill so many women? Was he the stereotypical serial killer that attacked and killed women? Because he was just so mad at mother! I wanted to be the apple of your eye, mother, but instead you're the apple of my zapples. Something like that, something like Ed Kemper. Carl threw himself into sports as an outlet for his feelings of frustration. He started playing baseball, football, running track. He was especially good at football. You'd also pick up boxing a bit later and be very good at that, at least for a little while. In high school, he'll go on to win some kind of local Golden Gloves boxing title as a middleweight,

but then quit boxing a short time later after the first time he got knocked out cold, and then tell Sharon he quit because he couldn't take a punch. I get it. I had fun taking Taekwondo lessons, summer between my junior and senior year in high school. I would drive 45 minutes each way to take them. And then some other kid fracture my cheekbone with this. I think gave me concussion with this crazy 360 hook kick. And Taekwondo suddenly a lot less appealing than it was before that. On the outside, Carl still seemed like a fairly normal child as he approached

his teenage years, but he was anything but normal. Starting by the age of 12, he began to have fantasies of torturing and killing girls and women, fantasies he later said he enjoyed very much. This is what I alluded to when I said he was keeping stuff inside. Interestingly to me, he's so atypical this way when it comes to other serial killers, his fantasies did not include sex, at least not that he acknowledged. Only non-sexual violence and a lot of it. It's not that he acknowledged only non-sexual violence and a lot of it. He also continued struggling in school by 1968 when Carl was 14. He's still only reading at a fourth grade level. No longer cares about DuWon's classes.

I probably wouldn't care too much about school either if I was still reading at the fourth grade level when I'm in the eighth grade. I wonder if embarrassment or frustration added to his later anger. He's not stupid, maybe a learning disability, maybe something left over from meningitis, maybe some white girls in class were making fun of him for being slow, got real pissed off, pushed it all down and it came up way too much later. Carl is his first encounter with the police in June of 1969. Now 15-year-old Carl was working a paper delivery route in Detroit, somewhere

between his freshman and sophomore year of high school. On the 25th of June, Carl assaults 26 year old Joan Gave while delivering newspaper just out of fuck nowhere. Carl calmly walked up to her house, knocked on her door, and when she answered, he just punched her in the face. Joan screamed, fell back. Carl,ped back on his bike, drove off, and continued delivering papers. Just like went on with the rest of his route, like nothing had happened. Quick strike and quick flee. This is the template for crimes he will later perfect and replicate over and over. Imagine opening your door and out of nowhere, whoever knocked on it just fucking punches

you in the face. And then just walk off, like they didn't just do that. What a surreal moment. Carl would be arrested at home four days later when asked to explain himself. He said, I just, I just felt like beating someone up. He was always kind of like weird. And he was still like things like he had like a very steady kind of tone to the way he talked. Not, not when we get heated, you know, just like deadpan.

I just felt like beating someone up. Weird. Ordered to receive psychiatric treatment at the Lafayette Clinic, a forensic psychiatry center in Detroit. Carl's admitted to the Lafayette Metal Clinic September 2nd. He speaks with Dr. Gary Ainsworth, who asks about, you know, all sorts of his behavior. And Carl said he first had sex at the age of 14, but wasn't that excited about it? Didn't have much interest in girls, not sexually.

He made a comment that having sex was, quote, wicked behavior, sinful. How many times has needless sexual shame just fueled the psychos? May have really fueled Carl. So much shame over sex that he wouldn't even touch his murder victims in sexual ways. Too dirty!

Carl also told the psychiatrist about his recurrent dreams of beating and killing women, nightmares for most people anyway. The doctor asked him if these violent dreams disturbed him, and Carl said, no, I feel better after I have one. To Carl, these dreams, they weren't nightmares, they were fantasies, very enjoyable fantasies. And in a perfect world, at this point, the doctor would have told Carl, Hey buddy, I'm going to be right back. And you'd walked out of the intake room and he would have called Carl's mom. Yes, Mrs. Caesar. This is Dr. Ainsworth.

After speaking with your son, Carl, for a few moments, it's become clear to me that we can't let him come home, ever. We're going to need to keep him locked up here for the rest of his life. Honestly, it might just be better to kill him right now. Oh, why? What's wrong with him? He's a scary as fuck. He's a psychopath. I can try.

I can try and like de-psycho him for like a couple hours or un-psycho him if you prefer. I'm not optimistic that he's going to work out. He loves his violent nightmares. Carl also said he felt no remorse for the June attack. Didn't bother him one bit. Carl's mom Dorothy spoke to Dr. Ainsworth and said she didn't know why her son acted that way. He never gave any indication of this kind of behavior before. He had randomly punched her in the face even one time. Dr. Ainsworth came to the following conclusion.

Coral is an impulsive individual who has a passive aggressive orientation to life. There is no evidence of psychosis in the examination, although there is some confusion in thinking when the situation becomes overly complex. This patient is a paranoid young man who is struggling for control of strong homicidal impulses. His behavior controls are faulty and there is a high potential for violent acting out this individual is considered dangerous. Oh yeah, he's uh, he's super fucking dangerous. Struggling for control of strong homicidal impulses. He'll struggle with the uh, these impulses for the rest of his life. Uh, Dr. Ainsworth recommended outpatient treatment

when Carl was released on his 16th birthday after completing his state assigned treatment. From 1969 to 1974, Carl will return to Lafayette between five and ten times for outpatient treatment. From 1969 to 1974, Carl will return to Lafayette between five and ten times for outpatient treatment. Sources did not have an exact number. He also not surprisingly struggled in a lot of his high school classes. He didn't have many friends at school or otherwise, was growing more and more uncomfortable talking to people, maybe afraid, he'd share too much about his real thoughts and fantasies. He was sent to the principal's office many times for unspecified conflicts with girls at school and the experiment with drugs like marijuana speed and other

pills. We have, of course, he did. I mean, he's late 60s, early 70s. Would have been weird if he had not experimented with drugs. Uh, Carl continued playing football. This is when he got into that boxing, uh, you know, little brief run with boxing, like I mentioned earlier. He would later say this was how he dealt with abuse at home. According to the Dallas observer, Carl claimed that his mother quote, beat him, hollered at him, didn't act as if she liked him and several times struck him with a switch about the face.

He also did not have a good relationship with his stepfather, who he states was quite mean when not drunk. Mama beating him like that would help explain his violent rage towards women if it actually happened. His sister Sharon later recalled that this did not. She called bullshit on this. She later stated that none of the children were physically abused by either of their parents contradicting Carl's claims.

None of Carl's step-siblings backed up his abuse claims either. Did they just not want to admit the abuse or was Carl trying to gain sympathy here? Or did Carl think he was abused? That's a possibility that he wasn't but he thought he was. All right, his brain is not processing reality correctly. It's impossible or excuse me, it's possible that Carl committed his first murder when he was just 18. While most suspect his killing started in 1974, some others suspect he was involved in the following case. 1974, some others suspect he was involved in the following case. September 6, 1972, the body of 20-year-old Zanada Thomas was found in a field in Taylor, Michigan.

She had been stabbed 45 times. So much rage. Whether he committed that murder or not, Carl's life will turn down a dark path in early adulthood. Carl was 19 when he just barely graduated high school, 1973, with the help of retaking some classes and his mom's tutoring. He also received a football scholarship to Lane College in Jackson, Tennessee, a good school. Lane College is a private, historically black college, associated with the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church, small school, only about a thousand students. Former NFL receiver and kick return specialist, Jacobi Jones went there

due to return to kick 108 yards for a touchdown for the Ravens in Super Bowl 47, longest play in Super Bowl history, helped the Ravens beat the Niners. Carl played running back briefly until a knee injury and the disfreshment season. And that was it. Carl was expelled. And by the way, on that Super Bowl thing, I'm recording this early. So I don't know. I don't know if the Niners won or the Chiefs. Yeah, that was it. Carl was expelled. And by the way, on that Super Bowl thing, I'm recording this early. So I don't know. I don't know if the Niners won or the Chiefs.

Uh, yeah, that was it. Carl was expelled from college just three months into his first semester, shortly after hurting his knee. And then he returned to Detroit where he'd lived with his mom and stepdad for six months and briefly worked as a mechanic. Why was he expelled? For being fucking creepy and maybe murdering. He was accused of stalking and assaulting a few different girls on campus.

Also a young female student unnamed in sources was murdered during Carl's loan semester and it seems that school officials while there was not enough evidence to prove that Carl did it, they strongly suspected him. In the interest of keeping the other kids safe, he was booted. The beginning of a long pattern of people being like, I know Carl did it, but not being able to prove it. In 1974, the year following Carl being kicked out of school, he returned to that Lafayette Clinic for another checkup,

admitted he was still suffering from the same problems. His evaluation concluded, this individual is struggling with conflicts in the area of sexuality and sexual identity. Homosexual concerns may be present. Rejection and denial are being unsuccessfully employed and more primitive thoughts and fantasies threatened to break through. That last part is pretty scary. Included in the evaluation was a note that Carl had a strong impulse to beat up women.

Damn. Interesting that Carl keeps coming back to these clinics, or like this clinic voluntarily, like you know, what if these violent thoughts were truly intrusive? What if he didn't want them anymore? But they just kept floating up. Like he had OCD and his mind just obsessed, just continual thoughts about the desire to kill women. That's a curse.

If that was the case, I truly feel sorry for him. Can you imagine having a mind that just keeps pushing you incessantly towards murder? In your quiet moments, you just essentially have this little voice in your head that is constantly telling you the same shit. Just kill her. Kill her. Kill her, Carl. Fucking kill her, Carl. Again, the word curse comes to mind. Let me curse existence. July of 1974, now 20-year-old Carl gives schools another shot, roles in classes at Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

Seemed pretty serious about his studies this time. He received an MLK grant to attend school. Mama helped him get that. Majored in engineering. He worked in the cafeteria to make ends meet. But again, he was far from a model student. Carl's grades quickly started slipping. He later said it was because he spent more time playing ping pong than studying.

I fucking love ping pong. Haven't played in years, but randomly, that was my study break in college. So fun. Carl was also, unlike me, a little distracted when he was in school with violence towards women and probably murder. Ping pong and murder got in the way of his studies. And before I get into the details of Carl's cattle-mazoo killings, time for our first of two mid-show sponsor breaks. Thanks for sticking around if those commercials were too much for you and you left. You know what? Fuck you and fuck

your entire family. I hope a plane carrying toxic waste piloted by skinwalkers crashes into your house. Now back to Carl and some shit he likely pulled when he was studying at Western Michigan University. Soon after his arrival, there was a series of assaults against young women in Kalamazoo that ended with a murder Carl will never be charged for, but almost certainly committed. Carl was suspected of being involved in the disappearance of a teenage girl the summer before classes started.

This girl was 16 yearold Nadine Jean Odell and she went missing on August 16th 1974. She was last seen walking down John Daly Street in Inkster, heading to her boyfriend's house in Taylor, Michigan. Her body has never been found and no one witnessed her abduction. While Carl never got charged or anything he may have done while studying at Western Mission University He was arrested for something else On October 11th, 1974, you know never any like violent things

But on October 11th, 1974 Carl was caught stealing plywood from campus School police arrested him. No charges were filed. It's an odd crime plywood. I wish more details were given What you doing over there Carl that plywood? I just need to uh, just need to build some coffins for my ladybodies officer What was that nothing? October 25th 1974 Carl suspected of attacking 23 year old Lenore Nizaki inside her apartment Around 1045 a.m. On this Friday morning a man knocked on her door asking for another man named Charles. Lenore told him that no one named Charles lived there.

The man then asked if he could leave a note. Weird. Why did he want to leave a note for someone who didn't live there? Charles neither pushed his way inside, it was invited in to leave this note. Sources are not clear. And once he was inside inside he grabbed Lenore and Tried to strangle her. I don't know. Did I call her Lenore earlier? But anyway Lenore But he left when she screamed and fought back Lenore called the police, but they were unable to identify a suspect at the time

But then five days later a student's killed 19 year old Gloria Steele a Western Michigan University student and, killed in a brutal attack inside her apartment on October 30. Her windpipe was crushed and she was stabbed in the chest 33 times with some type of wooden carving instrument. There were no witnesses to the attack, but apartment manager Diane Williams told the police she'd seen a man walking through the apartment complex. Every time he was questioned, this guy said he was looking for a dude named Charles. Gloria is one of only two Michigan murders Carl will be convicted for, but it'll take

a long, long time for this conviction, like a long time. Two weeks later, another area woman is attacked November 12, 1974. 21-year-old Diane Williams. Once again, some dude shows up at the apartment complex, looking for this mysterious Charles. She spotted Diane leaving her unit, grabbed her, pushed his way into her apartment, started punching and choking her. Luckily, Diane's phone started ringing during the attack. And she was like, please, please, let me take this, it's important. I think it's my brother. He's supposed to find out today if he got accepted into grad school or not.

And then Carl would go over and stop punching her, you know, and was like, okay. All right. All right. Take it, but you know, make it quick. And then Diane was like, hello. What you did? Oh my God, Tommy, I'm so happy for you. Oh, congratulations.

Have you called mom yet? Oh, you got to call mom. Okay. Okay. Love you, Tommy. Sounds good. And then she hung up the phone and then Carl immediately went back to choking and punching her.

No, that's absurd. No, she managed to knock the phone off the receiver and she started yelling for help. Uh, the man flees Carl and then Diane watches him get into a tan Pontiac Grand Prix before he takes off. The police identified only eight vehicles in town that fit that description. One of which was owned by, I bet you can guess. Great job. Yeah.

Carl Carl. No one has hated women more than this guy Watts. Investigators brought Diane Williams and Lenore Nczaki to view a lineup and both of them would identify Carl. On November 16th, 1974, Carl is arrested, charged with two counts of felony assault and battery. Knowing that Carl was almost certainly the perpetrator of these two violent attacks,

the police also wanted to question him about the murder of Gloria Steele. On November 18th, Carl admitted he was in the area when Gloria was killed, but he insisted he didn't do it. To try and help keep him off the streets on the 21st, the police re-arrested him for stealing that plywood. I just need to make a few coffins for my ladybodies, but he was soon released on bond. Thank you, mommy, for helping me.

December 6th, Carl did an interview with ninth district court investigator, Ronald Freemeyer, and straight up admitted to attacking 15 more victims, most of whom were thin, young, attractive white women. He wouldn't name them though. He definitely had a type in mind when it came to his rage fantasies, he'll continue to attack mainly young, attractive white women for the rest of his life. He demanded a lawyer during the interview shortly thereafter decided he wanted to admit himself to the Kalamazoo Mental Hospital.

While in the hospital the Detroit police executed a search warrant on Carl's home on December 12th and they found wooden carving tools but no other evidence linking him to the murder of Gloria Steele. He had not left fingerprints at the scene, at least none they were able to gather. Sources never say he wore gloves during his attacks. Victims who survived his attacks never mentioned gloves, but he never left prints. He must have been really good about not touching anything

other than the victims themselves. December 18th, Carl was given a choice. Jail for 45 days or the Kalamazoo mental hospital for at least 45 days before his upcoming trial. He chooses to go to Kalamazoo. He reportedly chose it because they let him play pool and basketball. Okay. Kalamazoo, a doctor named James Catalyst, determined that Charles showed no psychotic symptoms.

He also diagnosed him though with antisocial personality disorder. People with APD exhibit some or all of the following symptoms. Being impulsive, being irresponsible, being criminal, being manipulative, being deceitful, being reckless, not caring for other people's feelings. Other signs of APD can include being able to act witty and charming, being good at flattery, manipulating other people's emotions, breaking the law repeatedly, disregarding the safety of self and others, having problems with substance misuse, lying, stealing, and fighting often not showing guilt or remorse.

Antisocial personality disorder is also sometimes called sociopathy, so he's officially a sociopath. No surprise there. Dr. Catalyst wrote Watts has no special preoccupations. He doesn't believe in God. He's never heard any voices, no delusions. He doesn't believe in ESP. Random reference. No suspiciousness. Nobody is against him. No gross psychotic symptoms noticed in all mental faculties are intact. He just really likes hurting and killing women. Catalyst discovered that Carl went to the Lafayette Clinic again shortly before he was arrested

to try and get more treatment. Carl told him he had beaten multiple women in the fall of 1974 alone and thought he had killed one or two of them by choking them. But again, he doesn't name them. Dr. Catalyst wrote about Carl, he is impulsive and unable to learn from previous experience. He blames others for his criminal acts. Carl's mom Dorothy came in for another interview. A social worker wrote that Dorothy denied having any knowledge of his criminal history

or any assault incidents, which is total bullshit. She for sure knew about some of his previous shit. She knew about the woman he first attacked on his paper. She was brought in and asked about that. Mama was embarrassed by baby boy. Maybe didn't want to face up to be in the mother of a monster. Uh, I do feel bad for her. I also would not want to be the parent of a monster when I

possibly did not create one who just might have somehow became obsessed with fantasies or of killing women through the fault of no one. An obsession that could somehow be tied to the meningitis he had, you know, leaving some brain damage. Maybe again, I'm speculating, but it's not impossible. January 8th, 1975, while still in the Kalamazoo Mental Hospital, Karl attempts to end his life. Maybe, maybe he's just being manipulative.

Many believe this was an effort to manipulate the staff at the Kalamazoo Mental Hospital. He hanged himself with a laundry bag cord, a nurse found him, cut him down, but he had never lost consciousness and it seemed like he would have been able to just, you know, put his feet down if he would have wanted to. Carl was released from the hospital within a few months of this incident and then got a job cleaning up a local church. In late May of 1975, Captain RJ Slater from the Western Michigan campus police wrote an update on the Gloria Steel case. This has got to be so frustrating for this guy. As of 5-21-75, this case has been investigated to the point that this department has knowledge that one Watts, Coral E., a black male person is the person that in fact killed Steele.

This however cannot be proven with any type of physical evidence, right? They knew. They fucking knew he killed her and knew they couldn't prove it in court. In June of 1975, Carl was court ordered to undergo another mental health evaluation at Michigan Center for Forensic Psychiatry. So many evaluations.

His evaluations were completed by Dr. Alyssa Benedict who wrote, The defendant remembers the assaults on Nazaki and Williams and says he has been involved in incidents of beating up girls since at least the age of 15. After these types of incidents, he has no special feelings except he generally feels good. Scary. Benedict, addict to her notes, this patient is clearly quite dangerous and his potential for recidivistic behavior is great. Everyone who evaluated this guy knew.

Quickly. He was a dangerous predator. Didn't seem like an interview. He made any attempt to hide that fact. He knew who he was. Everyone fucking knew they just couldn't get murder charges against him to stick. Not yet. On December 19, 1975, instead of going to trial, Carl pleads to no contest,

to two accounts, or to two accounts, of assault and battery for the attacks against Lenore, D'Zaki, and Diane Williams. And he sentenced to one year in the county jail. He'll serve only eight months. So sad that this fuck only gets 45 days when he tried to kill two women, almost certainly murdered a third and admitted to

attacking 15 other women. Why? Why can't we lock away more violent predators forever when we know they're just going to keep hurting people? Carl was released from jail August 24th, 1976, moved back in with his mom and stepdad in Inkster. I'm sure they were thrilled. It seems like he then laid low for about two years, maybe afraid of getting incarcerated

again or maybe was just extra sneaky. Eventually, Carl, of course, will return to his violent ways. But first, also in 1970, Carl started a brief relationship with a childhood friend, Dolores Howard, and they for sure had sex, at least one time. She fucking tricked him. She asked him to play naked hide and seek, and she hid his penis in a vagina. She became pregnant, and their daughter, Nakesha Watts, will be born February 3rd, 1979 and then they'll break up soon after Nakesha's born. Nakesha has never publicly said, or I'm sorry, not Nakesha,

this Dolores has never publicly said why, you know, they broke up, not to my knowledge. Carl will initially refuse to claim Nakesha as his daughter, and Dolores had to file a claim to receive child support. January 25th, 1980, a judge will rule that Carl was the father of Nikesha Watts and ordered him to pay 40 bucks a week in child support. And now, I guess to his credit, he will help raise her and eventually, terrifying, she will come to live with him. In the middle of the height of his culling spree.

In the middle of his parental conflict with Dolores, Carl becomes involved with another woman. August 17, 1979, now 25 year old Carl Marys Valeria Goodwill, who he had met at a disco in Detroit. It's nice of you know, getting out at the disco and dance when he's not fucking punching women and trying to kill them. They lived together on Parker Street in Detroit. Their marriage, Carl's only marriage will last just six months. There were problems immediately after the wedding. Weird problems. Carl, currently an atheist, was now so against religion he refused to let Valeria have a Christmas tree in their home.

He also forbid her from wearing makeup, tried to flush a wig down the toilet. Valeria also noticed Carl had some strange sleeping habits. While he slept, he moved like he was fighting somebody He'd occasionally fall out of bed and then get back into bed still struggling without ever waking up if she touched him While he was sleeping he would jump so violently she would have to get out of the way to avoid being hit Still having those dreams right dreams where he's attacking one woman after another it seems Man his brain is fixated on that. You know apparently it's all he thinks about when he's awake and when he's asleep. Strange habits extend into waking hours. Carl constantly rearranges his furniture, cuts up house plans with knives, melts candles

onto the table and randomly just throws trash in the floor that he won't pick up. And after they have sex, he leaves home for a couple hours at a time. Never tells you why, never tells you where he's going. Fuck. What would you do if your partner, every time you had sex, quickly got dressed afterwards and then just left the house? Wouldn't tell you where they were going or why and they'd be gone for a few hours. Nope. That's a deal breaker. Want to tell me what you've been doing again or should we just, you know, call this whole thing off? During this relationship, several women will be killed in the Detroit area, quite possibly by Watts.

September 21st, 1979, the headless body of 34 year old Milak Haddad, found in front of her home in Allen Park, a suburb of Detroit. Her son found her body when he stepped outside to go to school, uh, which then, uh, alerted his two sisters. All of her poor children would be subjected to this horrifying crime scene. Yeah, man, do you ever totally get overseen your mom's headless body?

I doubt it. Malak's case remains unsolved. October 2nd, 1979, 20-year-old Dawn Jerome strangled to death in Taylor, another suburb of Detroit. October 8th, 1979, the body of 21-year-old Peggy Puchmara found in her front yard in the front yard of her boyfriend's neighbor's home. Peggy had been strangled. She had not been robbed or sexually assaulted, just like the two previous victims had not been. Her boyfriend Wayne County Sheriff's Deputy

Gary Malouf expected her to visit him that night around 3.30 in the morning when she finished her shift as a maintenance employee for Northwest Airlines. He went looking for her when she didn't show up and found her body at 5 a.m. Neighbors reported hearing a man and woman arguing around outside at 3.30 a.m. around the time Peggy was supposed to arrive at Malu's home and your girlfriend gets killed on your neighbor's lawn as she's heading over to visit you. How much does that fuck you up? October 17th, Carl Watts is arrested for disorderly prowling outside of women's house. And then the charges are later dropped though.

Do get arrested for being creepy. Disorderly prowling. What an odd crime. I'm sure I've heard about it before, but I forgot about that charge. Makes me picture Carl dressed up like the McDonald's hamburger for some reason. Just crouched out, you know, behind some car, darkened street, cop sees him, put your hands right, I can see him. What are you doing? It's a public street. I'm allowed to be here. You are, sir, but you're not allowed to prowl. Walking around here in the middle of the night, that's fine. Crawling, you don't like it. It's not illegal. But prowling? Prowling! Now look at that sign. And then he's pointing to the big sign with like a stick figure hunched over behind some bush watching women through the window. You got to come down to the station.

Halloween night, October 31st, 1979. 44-year-old Jeannie Clyde, a food writer for the Detroit Free Press, stabbed to death while leaving a doctor's appointment in Gross Point Farms, another suburb of Detroit. Jeannie was attacked on a major road, stabbed 11 times with a woodworking tool. Thought to be Carl's oldest victim. And that tool is similar to a screwdriver. Her husband dropped her off for a doctor's appointment and late afternoon she left the doctor's office at 6pm. Jeannie had back problems.

We'd go on walks to kind of like loosen you know, loosen up her back, alleviate the pain. Found a quarter mile from the doctor's office, having been killed while she was out walking. Passed her by, found her at 6.30pm and initially thought her body was part of a Halloween prank. It was not much blood at the scene, which indicated that Jeannie had been killed elsewhere. She was also still clutching a little piece of a branch from a tree from another location. Detectives suspected Jeanne's husband until Carl confessed to this murder years later. Carl would eventually confess to a variety of murders he would never be charged and tried for.

December 1, 1979, 36-year-old Helen May Dutcher stabbed to death in an alley behind a drycleaners in Ferndale, Michigan, about 12 miles from Detroit. Helen is the second of the only two Michigan murders Carl will ever be convicted for. Helen was seen in a nearby restaurant minutes before she was killed. She was also seen talking to several men on the sidewalk, one of whom was later identified as Carl Watts. Helen was stabbed over 30 times in the neck and back, 30. A full 12 of the wounds could have been fatal just on their own. Found in an alley leading to Woodward Avenue between eight and nine mile roads.

In this case, a witness did see Helen and a man struggling in front of the dry cleaners. He saw the man drag Helen around the building, then saw him drive away. He called the police, helped develop a composite sketch of the suspect and said Watts had evil eyes with no emotion. Don't understand why he didn't yell to dude, maybe try and scare him off, chase him, I don't know. The witness will later play a very key role in the criminal proceedings against Carl Watts. The Detroit attacks continue into 1980, extend now into the nearby city of Ann Arbor.

In the Ann Arbor cases, the victims were young women who were brutally stabbed and strangled early on Sunday mornings. The press will start to call the unidentified killer the Sunday morning slasher. March 10, 1980, on Monday, the dead body of 23-year-old Hazel Conif found just outside her boyfriend Tim Mone's house in Detroit. She was on her way, again, to visit him. Like a previous victim, Hazel was attached to a chain-leaked fence with a dog leash she'd been strangled with around her throat.

No slashing here. Curl liked to vary up his kills between stabbing and strangling for the most part of this time. Tim was sitting just a few yards away from where she was murdered in his house watching TV waiting for her when she died. How that must have haunted him. Did he do that shit on purpose sometimes, or attack women who were romantically involved with somebody, kill them right outside the home of their lover just to spread more pain arounds?

It was a fucking demon. Hazel grew up in Port Huron, the second of four kids. Heavily involved with her church, the Griswold Street Baptist Church. Growing up, she regularly went to Sunday school, pioneer girls on Wednesday nights, church retreats on vacations. She'd attended St. Clair Community College and Port Huron for two years on a journalism scholarship, then got an apartment in New Baltimore, studied journalism at the at Oakland

University and was working as a long distance information operator from Michigan, Bell and Mount Clemens when she died. Doing so much. Another great person. April 1st, 1980, 26 year old Denise Dunmore found dead outside her apartment in Detroit. She had been suffocated. The police believed Denise was killed late on March 31st, just hours after she performed at the local Masonic Temple with her gospel singing group. Her roommate Carol Cobb would later say that Denise was not raped. She was not robbed, was not beaten. A gold chain that belonged to me was around her neck. A very expensive gold chain, and this was not taken. Nor another gold chain, nor a diamond and

ruby ring on her small finger. Her purse was still there with a couple of dollars in it, nothing was taken. Carol thought the killer intended to kill someone else since Denise was driving a friend's car the day she died. Denise and her brother were raised by a single mom in Detroit's northeast side. She'd been an excellent student at Pershing High School. She'd shown talent for both singing and creative writing. For several weeks before her death, she'd been very focused on preparing to sing at Detroit's Masonica Auditorium with her gospel group for a little concert. She then messed up her solo during the concert and was very upset about it afterwards. Then on her way home,

still upset with her performance, she gets fucking strangled by a psychopath in the parking lot right outside her apartment. And I know this is fucked up when I first read about this. I imagined her driving home right before Carl found her and just thinking to herself, this day could not get any worse. Just had to word vomit that terrible thought out of my system. Three weeks later, 17 year old Shirley Small, a high school student, out of my system. Three weeks later, 17-year-old Shirley Small, a high school student, stabbed twice in the heart just outside her home in Ann Arbor, April 20th, stabbed on a Sunday morning, the Sunday morning slasher. Shirley went out to a roller skating rink with her friends the evening before. Afterwards, they wanted to go to a late night restaurant, but she was angry about a recent breakup and didn't want to. She started walking home. Shirley's

ex-boyfriend drove along her walking route to look for her and saw her walking towards her house at 3.45 in the morning. She wouldn't accept a ride from him and continued to walk, and the police believed she was killed about an hour later, 4.45 a.m. About six weeks later, May 31, 1980, 27-year-old Linda Montero found strangled outsider Detroit home laying in the driveway. How much does it bother you? First, 1980, 27-year-old Linda Montero found, strangled outside her Detroit home, laying in the driveway. How much does it bother you?

How does fucker kill so many people right outside their homes? Or right outside the home of whoever they were on their way to visit? He had to have gotten off on them almost making it to safety and then he takes that from them. Linda was killed around 4 a.m. She was attacked as she got out of her car to go inside her poor sister Rita, heard her muffled screams screams called the police Didn't know for sure was her sister. It was actually the second time Rita called police 20 minutes earlier She thought she heard a prowler fucking Carl

Outside the house in his hamburger suit illegally prowling again. No doubt and she called the police her poor sister Linda been a member of the National Honor Society when she attended st. Martin de Perez high school or of the National Honor Society. When she attended St. Martin de Perez High School, she attended the University of Michigan for three years on a scholarship, studying dance, and then transferred to Wayne State in Detroit. She later spent a year at the Control Data Institute becoming a computer programmer. And now she's dead because some mentally deranged fucking pile of shit, some prowler saw her at random and felt like she needed to die, or thought it would just be fun to kill her. You know, we're both. Linda was the second woman strangled in Detroit in less than 24 hours.

28-year-old Rosemary Frazier was killed on a playground in Detroit's Rosdale Park Historic District. Her nude body had been found the day before on May 30. Another man, David Peyton, would later confess to her murder. Linda was the 11th woman murdered in Detroit since January 1st of that year. Sadly, a lot of fucking people are being killed by a lot of other people. By this point, the Detroit police believed at least three of these murders were committed by the same person.

26-year-old Glenda Richmond, a diner manager in Ann Arbor. Actually, before I go forward, I should say, yeah, both in the Detroit area where he'd go later in Texas, actually also around Ann Arbor, the murder rate was very high in all the places he killed. And I think that helped him get away with it. Because sadly, there was a lot of bodies, a lot of unsolved murders, police were trying to solve. Anyway, 26 year old Glenda Richmond, diner manager and Ann Arbor, another victim of the Sunday Sunday morning slasher, July 13, 1980. She was stabbed 28 times in the chest with another wood carving tool, a screwdriver-like object, as it's described in some sources. Her body was found just 27

feet from her Ann Arbor apartment. That's son of a bitch! Also in July of 1980, the Ann Arbor police formed a task force to track down who they're now starting to call the Sunday morning slasher after the two Sunday stabbings of local women. Ann Arbor just outside of the Detroit metro area, about 40 miles from one downtown to the other. Ann Arbor is now just a few miles outside of the outer edge of the Detroit suburbs. As reported later by the Dallas Observer, Detroit police sergeant James Arthurs read about the Ann Arbor cases, recalled the 1969 case he'd worked when a woman was attacked

by a paper boy, a young paper boy named Carl Watts. He'd also assisted the Kalamazoo police during the investigation of the murder of 19-year-old Gloria Steele on October 30, 1974. That Western Michigan University student and mother who was stabbed in the chest 33 times with a wooden carving instrument. The woman who had her windpipe crushed, killed in a brutal attack inside her apartment on October 30. Arthurs had executed a search warrant on Dorothy Caesar's home where Carl Watts was living. The similarities in the case were striking, young female victims, a brutal, overkill stabbing, no robbery, no sexual assault. Sergeant Arthurs called Ann Arbor,

gave them Carl's name. Watts was now added to unfortunately a very long list of dirtbags and potential homicides or you know, murder suspects. In the early morning hours of July 31st, 1980, 28 year old Lily Marlene Dunn last seen on Agnes Street in Southgate, just 13 miles from Detroit. She went on around 6.30 to go bowling. Afterward went to a bar with her friends, arrived home around 2.30 after shutting the bar down, was abducted from her own garage. Lily screams woke up her husband, but in true nightmare fashion, he was too late to save her. Lily was quickly forced into a light-colored vehicle. She kicked and screamed, but her attacker overpowered her, took off just before her husband was able to grab her. He found her purse, hairbrush, shoes on the street, cannot imagine the anguish he felt. It is believed that the killer followed Lily home. Right? She made it into her own garage. She was home.

The fucker still got her. Lily has never been found. Investigators thought she was killed by Carl Watts since the attack fits his basic MO. Another attack occurred that same morning in Canada this time. 22-year-old Irene Condra Tawitz was walking to her home in Windsor, Ontario at 3.40 a.m. when a man grabbed her out of nowhere, cut her throat and sped away. She was able to survive the attack thanks to her being Polish and Polish people not having to breathe through their mouths or their throats. They have a special backup respiratory system that allows them to breathe out of their buttholes if necessary.

Two little backup lungs, about 8 to 10 inches, up in their colons. It's pretty cool. For, you know, gross, depending on how you look at it. Uh, it really was too late. I don't know what I'm talking about. It was late when I add that to my note. Uh, it really though, uh, uh, she did survive the attack, but could not identify the attacker. Customs would record Carl Watts's car crossing the border from Windsor back into Detroit 416am. The two cities are only minutes apart separated

by the Detroit River. Month and a half later, September 14, 1980, the body of 30-year-old University of Michigan grad students, Rebecca Huff, found in front of her apartment complex in Ann Arbor, again a Sunday morning, Rebecca had been stabbed 54 times with a screwdriver or some type of wooden carving instrument. Killed between 4 and 8 am as she was heading to, just feet away from the entrance of her apartment. That sure sounds like Carl, right? That sounds like our murder robot.

A witness heard her screaming, saw a man running away and getting into a car. The Ann Arbor press reported that the Sunday morning slasher had killed again. Carl, though, not brought in for questioning. Too many suspects. Less than a month later, October 6th, 20-year-old Sandra Dulp attacked and wins her Ontario. Similar to the Irene Kondra-Towits Canada attack, Sandra's walking home, slashed from behind, across the face and neck. The attacker quickly stabbed and then fled. She never even saw him. Her juggler, juggler, uh, jugular vein was severed and a deep

gas was left across her face. She also survived, but would be left with some muscle paralysis and muscle weakness. Carl Watts vehicle was recorded crossing the border from Windsor to Detroit. Couple hours later, that motherfucker. Few weeks later, November 1st, Carl's back up in Canada. Why? Why is he going to Canada all the time? He doesn't work up there.

He doesn't have any friends up there anyone's ever mentioned. So what the fuck is he doing? Trying to slash again it seems. 30-year-old Mary Agnes narrowly escaped an attack in Windsor. She'd come home from a Halloween party around 1.30 a.m., saw a man in a hoodie jogged past her. As she walked to her front door, he stopped to tie his shoe, then tried to follow her. Mary screamed as loud as she could, ran to her front door.

This seems to have scared the man off, but not before Mary got a good look at him. She would later pick out Carl Watts from a lineup, kind of. She said she was pretty sure it was him, but couldn't be 100% sure because it was dark out. Again, Carl's car crosses the border soon after she is nearly attacked. That slippery son of a bitch gets away with another crime. Two weeks later, November 15th, 1980, Ann Arbor homicide detective Paul Bunton was informed by two officers that they saw Carl Watts stalking a young woman. Detective Bunton, I like him. He's like probably almost as good of a detective or was almost as good when he was working

as our sunny holster. Carl drove past the woman, stopped a few blocks ahead. She noticed what he was doing, tried to run in a different direction. Eventually, she was able to ditch him. Cops are all watching this. And the two officers said Carl, quote, almost went nuts when she got into her apartment safely. They pursued him in their patrol car, were able to pull him over and arrest him for driving

with suspended license and expired license tax. Inside his vehicle, they found a dictionary with the words, Rebecca is a lover, scratched into the cover, as well as blood and sub-wooden carving tools. Damn it! Huff had just been stabbed over 50 fucking times by the Sunday morning slasher two months earlier Despite all that Watts gave up nothing in his interrogation was allowed to leave due to a lack of physical evidence They had to have known again the shitbag did it Right. He's up to something but also, you know knew that they didn't have enough to convict him

DNA would not be first introduced as evidence in the US.S. criminal court system until 1986, you know, six years away. Saliva, skin, blood, hair, semen, etc. Left to the crime scene. Just not nearly as useful at this time as it would be in six, seven years. Investigators needed witnesses. They needed to find the belongings of victims in Carl's possession. They needed to find a murder weapon for sure, fingerprint matches, something concrete. Right? Concrete. They just, uh, they didn't have any of that yet. Carl attacks so fast left so fast after his kills, I made it hard to find solid eyewitnesses.

Someone needed to catch him in the act. November 21st, Detective Paul Button from Ann Arbor, Sergeant James Arthur from Detroit, the Detroit police's internal affairs unit, the Michigan State police, uh, and, uh, all these people meet the Windsor and Ontario authorities and Homicide Squad 7 collectively. All these units begin surveillance on Carl Watts. They all suspected him of being their guy in a variety of violent crimes. November 26, Detective Bunsen was able to obtain a warrant to put a tracking device on Carl's car. Carl, not the best student, but definitely no dummy, quickly figured out he's being followed. Sometimes he'd get out of his car and shout at civilians

because he thought they were the police following him. He now made sure to stay close to his neighborhood, no more trips to Ann Arbor, no more trips to Windsor, didn't commit any crimes for the duration of the time he was being tracked. The tracking device warn expired on January 29, 1981. Carl was taken in for questioning that day with Detective Bunton. During the interview, Bunton demonstrated on Carl how he believed Carl was grabbing his victims and stabbing them.

And Carl can't remember the last time a serial killer did anything like this. He broke down crying and asked to see his mommy. He's 27 years old. He's fucking batshit crazy. Bunton thought he was close to getting a confession, but then Carl clammed up after speaking to mommy Dorothy. Dorothy, you knew what he was doing, you piece of shit.

You knew what baby boy was up to. She had to have strongly suspected, but she protects him. I don't like Dorothy anymore. The strong single mom has become the weak-willed enabler of her murderous son. Investigators obtained a blood sample to compare to blood found on his shoes during an earlier arrest but it would not be linked to any of the crimes. Damn it, probably somebody else he fucking killed and got away with. While

they didn't have DNA analysis yet, they did have something called the ABO blood grouping system based on blood type. Depending on your blood type you can be matched to a crime scene along with just 4% of the rest of the world's population or be matched along with 49% of the rest of the world's population or a few other percentages. Long way from a perfect match, but in conjunction with a lot of other evidence, you know, a match could help build a decent case against you. Detective Bunn continued following Carl after the surveillance ended trying to

accidentally run into him in public places so we could corner him Get him to talk again. Get him to start crying. I like it. Oh Whoops. Oh, hey Carl. I didn't know you worked out of this gym two blocks from your house and 17 miles from mine Oh weird good senior dude. Have you been stabbing the fuck out of random women running away your psychotic piece of shit? Mama's boy douchebag I'm just joshing with you. I'm just Josh Hey, if you're gonna stay out the fuck out of some young woman, you didn, a psychotic piece of shit, mama's boy douchebag. I'm just joshing with you. I'm just joshing. Hey, if you're going to stay out of the fuck out of some young woman, you didn't

know, you just saw him on the street. How'd you do it? What would you use? Where were you hiding it? Like, like what exactly in your house right now is something you would use to do that, which you've probably done. And you care if I take a look at it? I'm just fucking with you, dude.

Don't start crying again. Calling your mommy, you crazy pile of shit. Ah, I'm kidding again. We'll be fun to antagonize a guy like this. Uh, March 10th, 1981, Detective Bunton approached Carl's courthouse when he saw him use a payphone. Bunton asked if he wanted to talk. Carl said, I don't talk to the police, and then literally started to run away. Come on, Carl!

I just want to talk until you confess. Then I'll leave you alone, I promise. I just want to chat until you fuck up and I can put you in prison for the rest of your life! We don't even have a death penalty in Michigan, you baby! Why are you running? Tell mommy hello, you limp dick, prowling lady, killing piece of shit! After this interaction, Carl packed up his things, left the state, stopped at his grandma's house in Colwood for a visit, and moved to Texas. He wanted to kill somewhere else now.

Somewhere he could start fresh and somewhere where he would not be on law enforcement's radar. And before we move on to the Texas portion of today's real life grindhouse flick, the second of two mid-show sponsor breaks. And if you don't want to hear any ads, get the entire time-sucked catalog ad free and more when you sign up on Patreon and become a space-sitter for five bucks a month. And I'm back. And unfortunately, Killer Carl is back as well.

Down in Houston, Texas. Yeah. March 23rd, Carl got a job at a Houston trucking outfit called Coastal Transport Company. He worked at 4pm to midnight swing shift. Detective Bunn, I really like this guy. He'd asked around and out to figure out what Carl was up to and knew he moved from Michigan down to Houston So on April 8th, he mailed Carl's case history report his big dossier that he'd gone above and beyond to put together Sent into the Houston police. He wanted them to be aware of Carl's presence in their city

Now he's worried, you know, the more attacks were to come and he'd be right about that hail detective button Week later in April 15th, Houston detective Doug Bostock went to Carl's new workplace and spoke to his superintendent after getting that dossier. The superintendent already wanted to fire crazy-ass Carl, but Detective Bostock begged him. Just keep him on a while longer so we can track his movements and his boss agreed. Well done. So much for Carl moving across the country where no one would be looking for him. Detective Bostock focused on tracking down his home address next. Carl made that real hard by continually moving. After arriving in Texas, he would move six times in the first six months.

He'd also use a friend's address, a friend who did not know where Carl was currently living on applications so the police could not pinpoint his location. Criminally, this guy is so smart. Carl quit his job with the trucking company. He felt like they were in cahoots with police. Right. He sensed it, told his friends and everyone else who would listen. He was moving to Dallas for another job with JR J and R trucking.

Carl's former superintendent informed detective boss talk about this move. So he mailed Carl's case history report to Dallas, but Carl, that sneaky, prowling weasel didn't actually move to Dallas. He moved to Columbus, Texas, about 40 miles west of Houston, got a job at an oil company called Welltech and started on that job, May 26. Then spent most of his off days going back to Houston to prowl for more victims in the city that thought he had left and went to Dallas. God knows how many women he may have killed if he killed in the summer of 1981.

August 25th, that summer, Carl gets another job, keeps moving, hired by a gym that catered to women now, worked the overnight shift. One of the job duties, unbelievably, was to walk women from the gym to their cars in the parking garage if they did not feel safe doing so on their own. Gym membership would fall by 78% over the next two months. Members kept disappearing. No, he didn't. That didn't happen. He got a job with the city of Houston's metro system as a mechanic.

Uh, now he moves to Eagle Lake about 69 miles from Houston. Quite the commute. Uh, whatever helped him keep killing, uh, you know, just felt worth it. I guess, uh, he will now start killing again in the city with the most murders in America at this time. I wonder how much that factored into his decision to move to Houston. According to the Dallas Observers' coverage of the case, the body started showing up in September 1981, but nobody noticed. Houston was the national homicide capital in the early 80s, notching 701 murders in 1981 alone. Alone, the police department was temporarily without a chief and severely undermanned,

making Houston with a vast freeway system and 600 square miles a perfect killing ground. Was Carl aware of all that? Did he do some kind of fucked up serial killer research to find the best place in America to get away with murder after murder after murder? September 5th, 1981, 22 year old Linda Tilley found dead in the swimming pool of her Austin apartment complex. Her death ruled an accidental drowning until Carl Watts confessed. Carl had been following a different girl from Houston to Austin.

The city's are about two and a half hour drive apart. Lost track of her, then saw Linda Tilley, unfortunate for her, and followed her into her building. Linda fought him hard. So hard they fell into a building. Linda fought him hard. So hard they fell into a tumble into a pool together and then he held her under the water until she drowned. And that seems to have excited him on some level because now he will drown some other victims. Two more victims, at least at least one more. Two more victims were killed on the same night a week later, the night of September 12th,, going into September 13, 25-year-old Elizabeth Montgomery was stabbed once outside her Houston apartment while walking

her dog. She kept walking after her attacker slashed her, then ran off, made it back home, but then fell down and died. Just two miles away, 21-year-old Susan Wolfe was fatally stabbed in the arm and chest outside her apartment in Houston. She'd gone out for ice cream with friends and was returning home. Watch later confessed to her murder. Ironically, Wolf had lived in Ann Arbor at the exact same time that Watts was suspected of killing several young women there, but

their paths did not cross until they both moved to Texas. What are they fucking odds? How unlucky. When we got the call telling us Suzy was murdered, we didn't know who did that to her, said Wolf's sister, Judy Kruger. They said someone hurt her calling out for help, but no one saw anything. He barely got away with just killing after killing. These two murders happened right after Carl's last day at Weltech. I guess it was his way of celebrating, moving on to another job.

Two months later, November of 1981, Detective Doug Bostock finally manages to figure out where Carl is again, where he's working, where he's living. He surveils him throughout November and December, puts a tracking device on his vehicle, and it seems like Carl figured out this was happening again. No women are killed during this time. He really kind of reigns in his behavior. This dude is a homicide detective's worst nightmare. Carl's murders resume in 1982. January 4th, 27-year-old Ellen Tam found hanging from a tall bush near Rice University in Houston. Carl will later confess to her murder. Ellen normally went out for a three-mile jog around campus, you know, every morning.

Another jogger saw her running by herself that morning around 6.15 a.m. Shortly after that other jogger saw her, Carl snuck up on her, grabbed her, used her own tube top to hang her from a low branch. According to author Corey Mitchell, the author of that 2006 book I mentioned, Evil Eyes, she was found sitting in the lotus position, as if in the midst of heavy meditation. The only problem was that her body was suspended two inches off the ground. Her feet were on the sidewalk. Her behind hung below the bush from which she was hung.

Her body was not bruised, her clothing was not torn, there was no signs of a struggle. Her death was initially ruled a suicide. But her uncle, an attorney, flew down to Texas to talk to the medical examiner, asked him to reconsider the mode of death. The ruling was then changed to freak accident or a clever cunning opportunistic homicide. Yeah, bingo. Two weeks later, January 17, 1982, 25-year-old Margaret Fosse, an architecture student at Houston's Rice University, was found dead in the trunk of her car on campus.

She was reported missing the day before. Margaret died by asphyxia from a real hard blow to the throat. Another murder Carl will confess to. On January 16, Margaret had gone out to dinner with a group of friends. Afterwards, they went out to a bar, shutting it down at 2 a.m. Margaret then rode back to campus with a few friends. She fell asleep in the car. It had been a long Saturday night. She was dropped off between 2 and 2.30 a.m. Margaret and one of her friends went into a classroom to get some drawings and pencils for assignments that were due later. They

said goodnight to each other. Then got into their own vehicles. A brown grand prix, the type of vehicle, Carl drove, followed her home. The vehicle drove close behind her, blinded her with its lights, causing her to drive onto the curb and puncture both of her left tires. The man pulled up behind her and approached her car,

Margaret, probably thinking he might help her or apologize for helping, because he caused a wreck, or excuse me, not apologize for helping, apologize for helping cause a wreck, I mean, way more sense sense rolled down our window and then Carl punched her in the throat so hard with one punch. He collapsed her windpipe and she was dead in minutes.

He then put her in the trunk and fled the scene. At the time of her murder, Margaret was married, but her husband was attending law school in Yale at Yale. She lived with her sister-in-law and her husband, Kathy and Wayne Gregory on the morning of January 17th, Wayne and his son saw Margaret's car during their morning errands. He called the police once he noticed that the tires were flat, realized Margaret was nowhere to be found. He and Kathy gave the police permission to open the trunk, but they didn't look inside. The car was towed to

the police station instead and their officers find Margaret's body on January 18th. Carl later confessed to taking and burning Margaret's clothes, shoes, purse, blueprint she was carrying, some other belongings after her death. Why? Because he needed to try to, quote, destroy her spirit. Destroy her spirit. He's not criminally insane, but he's crazy. Carl Watts attacks a second woman that same night.

Another crime he'll confess to. Julie Sanchez was fixing her tire on the freeway. She saw a man approaching. She thought I was going to help her, but he continues walking until she can't see him. She loses sight of him. She gets on her knees, starts removing her tire, when the man attacks her from behind. Just on the side of the road. This fucking car is flying by. Julie later testified, I feel the knife cutting my throat from my left side to the middle of my neck. At that point, I try to get loose. I turned around and tried to scratch

his eyes, but he wouldn't let me go. Instead of that, he pushed the knife all the way down in. She tried to fight back more, was cut a second time on the neck. She didn't want to get loose, the man smashed her face against her car. She crawled away from him as he continued to stab her body. She managed to get to the road, almost caused an accident, and she was then rescued by her husband, who had just driven over to help her with the tire. Just in time, finally someone shows up just in time before the victim's dead. Her husband pulls over, starts to take off after Carl, but Julie tells him that if he leaves her, she's going to die. How pissed is this guy? How helpless did he feel fucking Carl again, barely avoids

getting caught. At least his victim lives. Two weeks later, January 29th, 19 year old Alice Martel stabbed outside her apartment in Seabrook, Texas, just south to Houston, stabbed twice in the upper left chest and then once in the chin with an ice pick. She also lived and would have no recollection of the attack when she later woke up in a hospital bed. According to Corey Mitchell's book, Alice said, I didn't even know I was when she later woke up in a hospital bed. According to Corey Mitchell's book, Alice said, I didn't even know I was stabbed until I woke up in a hospital.

He grabbed me by the neck from behind and choked me. That's why I didn't know he stabbed me. Carl confessed to this attack as well. The entire attack probably lasted less than a minute total. The very next day, January 30th, 1982, 19-year-old Galveston resident Patty Johnson is coming home from her bartending job in the early morning hours. Galveston just south of Houston as well along the Gulf Coast. She was attacked as she walked into her home from her car.

A man tackled her, straddled her chest, and slashed her throat. A man who lived in a second floor apartment, heard what was going on, stepped outside, yelled at the attacker to get off Patty, and the dude just popped up, calmly walked away. Patty lived. Based on a photo lineup, Patty mistakenly later believed her attacker was Howard Mosley, 25-year-old warehouseman for Lipton T. in Galveston, guy with a criminal record for stealing a car and aggravated robbery. He'd been released earlier from those crimes, also would be arrested for assault, you know, separate incident in February 16, 1982. This poor bastard later sentenced to life in prison under Texas.

Their habitual criminal provision law. And then Carl will admit he was the guy who actually attacked Patty and poor Moseley will be released more in him later. A week later, Carl is attacking constantly. February 7th, 20 year old Elena Demander found dead inside a dumpster in Houston. Again a kill Carl will confess to. Elena was the oldest of four sisters killed a week before her 21st birthday. She was an athlete. She learned a field hockey scholarship at the University of Denver before she transferred back to Houston

because she was homesick. She moved back in with her sisters, continued her studies at the University of Houston, studying math and physical education. She was artistic, dabbled with sketches, painting, sculpture, super talented young adult, bright light, so much more to offer the world than a fucking thousand Karl Watts, right? Than this walking demon. She was an extremely family oriented person, serious about her face as a Christian.

She was heavily involved in her Greek Orthodox family church in Houston. Great person. Years later, in an interview in 2023, her younger sister, Joanna, said she was larger in life. She gave good sound advice to her younger sisters. She was a free spirit.

Elena went out to a club with her friends the night of February 6th. They stayed out until the early hours of February 7th. Afterwards, they went out to get breakfast, but the line was too long. Elena's friends brought her back to her car, saw her get in. She was going to see a friend on her way home now, but never made it. A man named Gregory Rhodes was sleeping in his car next to a dumpster, the one she'd

be found in, at an apartment complex. He woke up around 2.45 a.m., saw Elena get out of her car, saw a man walk up to her, put his arm around her, saw them struggle struggle saw him pull her behind the dumpster Then Greg fell back asleep Seriously, geez great. Geez Greg. You see a dude pull a woman behind a fucking dumpster at 2 45 in the morning And you fall back asleep. Who is this person? That's a clear indication that something shady is happening. It's a, oh, what's it called?

It's a dead giveaway. Dead giveaway. Dead giveaway. My name got big testicles because we see this door every day. Every day. We eat ribs. Seriously, how do you just go back to sleep in that situation? Oh my God.

Oh, man, I'm so tired. Oh, so tired. What's going on there? Dude, dude, what are you doing? That lady, that's, that doesn't look good. That is. Oh, man, it doesn't look like a, the best of luck. I'll check on you later. A few minutes later, Greg wakes up again. When he hears a moan, followed by thud, and then he knows what he does. He falls back asleep.

He was very tired! Oh, shit! Oh, that didn't sound good. Oh, man. Sorry, I gotta work. I gotta work the more I am. So tired. Later that morning, a private garbage disposal service comes to empty the dumpster.

Worker Guillermo Shaw sees a leg when he begins compacting the trash. Finds a young woman's body. Calls the police. Elena's purse was among the garbage, which allowed the police to easily identify her. Elena's shirt had been wrapped around her face as a gag. Elena's mother started her own investigation because she felt like she wasn't getting the answers she needed. She checked the paper often to look for new murder cases and reached out to victims'

families to see if there were connections between those deaths and the deaths of her daughter. And she probably thought about how fucking mad she was. Greg! A lot of the time. Fucking Greg! You cowardly sleepy shit! Such a weird thing.

Oh man, what's going on? Oh, I was just going to go back to sleep. Elena's mom identified a pattern in several recent murders. Believe the serial killer was at work in Texas, but the belief chief she spoke with told her there was no such thing. She wanted a public warning issued to young women in the city,

but the chief would not sign off on it. She reached out to news outlets to spread awareness, but without the police backing her up, they were hesitant to publish anything. After Elena's death, her father would go on the local news outlet in Houston and warn people saying, don't go out at night. There's a lot of crazy people out there and you just, you're putting yourself in

jeopardy, especially a fucking Greg is nearby. That pile of shit's just gonna fall asleep. Something goes down. Poor bastard. A little over a week after Lena's murder, February 16th, 1982, the badly decomposed, headless body of 20 year old Deborah Mackie found on a dirt after Elena's murder, February 16, 1982, the badly decomposed, headless body of 20-year-old Debra Mackey found on a dirt road in Hale County, Texas. Debra missing on January 6, 1982. Her body remained unidentified all the way until June of 2023.

Similar to the Malacadab case in Detroit, Carl is a potential suspect in her murder, a murder he won't confess to committing though. March 19, 1982, Carl moves again. He moves into a new apartment in Houston, uh, and lists a woman named Sheila Watts as his wife and Sheila's daughter as a resident. Carl met Sheila in September of 1981 in the St. Paul's Temple Church of God in Christ in Houston. She saw him attend church for months before he ever asked her out. Now he's, no, he's born again.

Uh, the guy that wouldn't let his wife have a Christmas tree because he hated religion so much is now, uh, you know, he's a big, prowley, constantly killing, uh, member's born again. The guy that wouldn't let his wife have a Christmas tree, because he hated religion so much, is now, you know, he's a big, prowley, constantly killing a member of the faithful. Or he just likes sitting in the pew and looking at all the women around him. All the women he could kill if he wanted to. Probably that. After Carl's arrest, Sheila said Watts, who was working as a bus mechanic, almost immediately began taking her and her family out to lunch, picking up the tab. Her last name was actually not, picking up the tab. Her last name was actually not Watts, by the way.

The two never got married. He just acted like they had been married. Her last name was Williams. And Sheila Williams refused to believe he was a killer, saying he was a warm person and a perfect gentleman with good intentions. She said he would pull out chairs for me, open doors. Everything a gentleman would do. He seemed to have very good intentions.

This man was intelligent. He dressed nice, smelled nice. He wanted a home and his own business. The things an aggressive man would not want. Cilla said she was never afraid of him, although psychiatrists describe Watts as a woman-hater who often thought women were an evil he needed to attack. At no time do I think he would harm me or his child, she said. Yeah, his child. Somehow, during all this killing, Carl gets ahold of his daughter, Nakesha, who's now three. Sheila thought he seemed like a good dad.

Not sure where Nakesha's mom was, his old childhood friend, Dolores Howard. After Carl's later arrest, Nakesha will go to live with her grandma, Carl's mom, Dorothy. The lady who refused to help authorities put Baby Boy behind bars. Could have saved a lot of lives. Two years after Watts later arrested for multiple murders, Sheila will claim to still love him, which is gross. She said, I can't help but care about him because of the way he was. Now you can write him off if you try hard enough, Sheila. I promise. Carl's, his fucking head was a hornet's nest. March 20, 1982, 14-year-old Emily Laquaw leaves her home in Brookshire, Texas after her father grounded her. Emily had recently run away from her mother's home in Hitchhike to live with her father.

Emily went to her waitressing job at 5 a.m., taking the 5 a.m. shift at 14. She was last seen hitchhiking at Interstate 10, alongside Interstate 10, where Carl was driving that day. Emily's father reported her missing the next morning. Her strangled body would be found five months later, stuffed in a culvert, and Carl will confess to this kill. Week later, March 27th, Edith Liddett, 34, found stabbed to death in Galveston. She'd been killed as she returned home from a graduation party.

The medical student's body was found near an apartment complex. Next to her was a sleeping guy named Greg, who apparently kind of heard about some stuff, but never bothered to kind of fully wake up and see what was going on Whoa, oh God right next to me. Oh, I gotta I gotta get some rest. This just keeps happening No, the medical students body was found. Yeah near an apartment complex

Watts also attacked a young woman named Glenda Kirby who lived several blocks away just minutes before he stabbed Edith She was able to escape his grip because his hands were still wet and bloody from killing Liddette Prosecutors said Carl confessed to both these attacks Man, he can't hold on to one woman He wants to kill because he's too bloody from the last woman he killed as soon as addicted to murder Month later, April 15th, 1982 21-year-old Yolanda Gracia. I would say Gracia, but that's not where the A in the R go. Stad four times after getting off the bus and starting her short walk home.

A neighbor found her body laying in between two yards. Sorry, I'm not, this is fucked up. I'm not trying to laugh. I'm not laughing at this. I cannot stop thinking about Greg. And now I'm just picturing him asleep near all of these crime scenes. Like he just, he kind of heard, he started to wake up and then he just went back to sleep. But literally all of the, he's like, he's just asleep nearby.

Whenever another body's found the next day. So fucking stupid. Next day, April 16th, 32 year old, Carrie May Jefferson stabbed twice while walking home from her job at the post office in downtown Houston Carl buried her body along white oak bayou a river in Houston according to Carl's confession She fought back aggressively tried to defend herself But he's able to stab her twice on each side of her neck when asked why he attacked her He said he did it so he wouldn't wake Greg up. Now. He said he did it for the blood When asked why he wanted her to bleed, he said,

I'll tell you later, but then he never explained himself. Week later, April 21st, 25-year-old Suzanne Cyril's murdered when returning home from birthday party. Carl later admitted to beating her and then drowning her in a flower pot filled with water. Right? He has a thing for drowning now. After that first drowning, you know, back on September 5th, 1981 when he drowned 22 year old Linda Tilley in the swimming pool of her Austin apartment complex. Suzanne's body not found until he made his confession. Carl was almost caught while burying Suzanne's body in a vacant lot in Houston.

Couple passed by looked at him, but they didn't notice the body on the ground or questioned what he was doing. He must have felt invincible. Just straight up burying the body and people walk by and they don't even do anything. A couple just, you know, straight up just looks right at him as he's burying the body of a woman he has just killed. He's like, hey, have a good night. You too, Carl. Good luck with your garden project. Then Carl's like, hey, Greg, you wake up for a second, hold the shovel, hold the shovel for a second, Greg. Almost exactly a month later, this real life terminator, this fucking murder robot who just continually kills one random woman after another, now murders 20-year-old Houston resident Michelle Mede,

May 23, 1982. She'd went out to do a club to celebrate her birthday the night before. She'd made it home, was walked up the stairs to her apartment when a man came up behind her and grabbed her neck. He choked her unconscious, dragged her into her apartment, filled the tub up with water, and then drowned her. He later said he did all this so, quote, her spirit would not get out. Yeah, not totally. That makes perfect sense. I mean, how else do you make sure that someone's spirit can't get out?

I mean, is there another way? Later that same day, bloodthirsty Carl, Coral Watts with his insatiable blood lusts breaks into the apartment of 18-year-old Melinda Aguilar and 21-year-old Laurie Lister. Laurie spent the night at her boyfriend's place and returned to the apartment around 6 a.m. When she got home, Carl was literally hiding in the bushes, like the absolute fucking prowl ghoul he was, and he grabbed her as she started to walk up the stairs. He squeezed her throat, demanded to know where she lived, she pointed to a second floor apartment. Carl pushed her up the stairs, choked her unconscious right outside her apartment door, then entered the apartment and turned on the lights. Almost woke up Greg, who's he was able to stay asleep on the couch. Instead, he encounters Melinda, who's up getting early,

you know, getting ready for church up early. Funny if they were members of the same church. Hey, Carl, what are you doing here? You want to drive over together? No, thanks Melinda. I need to kill this lady for her blood. Pretty low on the extra lady blood right now. Okay, alright, see you when you're done, Carl. Melinda recalled hearing the keys jingle, opened up the door for her roommate. She saw a man in a red sweatshirt with his hood pulled up.

When Carl turned on the lights and saw Melinda, he pushed Lori aside, who was weakened from being choked, and now grabbed Melinda by her hair and said, If you scream, I'll kill you. Then he pressed a knife against her throat. Next, he twisted her body so she faced away from him, put his arm around her neck and squeezed. Melinda, thinking fast, quickly pretended

to lose consciousness, went limp. Carl laid her down on her bed, then walked out of the room. Melinda heard him exit and heard him start dragging something in into the apartment. She managed to get a look, saw that it was Lori. Carl now comes back in, binds Melinda's hands with a wire hanger, then leaves and binds Lori's hands and feet. Lori was starting to regain consciousness. Melinda later told 60 Minutes, he was excited. How creepy is this? She said, quote, he was excited and hyper and

clapping and just making noises like he was excited. Like he's like, Woohoo! Woohoo! That's so creepy. This is gonna be fun. He clapped and jumped it one time. And that's when I knew I had to do something. What the fuck? Just giddy. Like he's a little kid. Pumped to kill two women in one apartment,

three in the same day. These serial killers are some of the weirdest people on Earth. Just so far outside the norm of average human behavior. When you filled the tub and dragged Lori into the bathroom and pushed her under water, Melinda hands still bound, quietly got up, closed and locked the bedroom door, told Greg, just shh, Greg, don't say anything. Then quietly and quickly opened the sliding door to the balcony. The railing was chest high, she couldn't get her legs up and over it with her hands bound, so she jumped, she fucking yeets herself she jumps head first over the

railing of her second-story balcony melinda five two ninety pounds does a fucking flip through the air hail melinda go go go uh she uh hits her head on the bottom of the wooden balcony then lands on her shoulder on the concrete thirteen feet below but is like rolling rolling forward hands still bound jumps up to her feet, runs until she sees her neighbors who called the police. Incredible. Carl Ney has a choice between trying to drown Laurie in the bathtub like he wanted to or to flee.

Melinda and Laurie's neighbor Patricia K. McDonald lived below the women. She had called the police even before Melinda jumped out. Multiple people called the police when she heard commotion upstairs. Officers Donnie Schmidt and Luther Domain soon arrived at the complex. They were patrolling nearby, but they go to the wrong apartment. Right? This slippery son of a bitch. Is he going to get away fucking again?

Arrived at the wrong apartment unit, officer Schmidt and Domain do hear a loud noise come from a nearby apartment. What happened was when Carl discovered the Melinda locked herself in a room, he kicked the door down, saw that she was gone. He then looked out the open door, sees police cars, starts running. When Schmidt and Domain go to check out the noise, they see Carl. Schmidt chases him on foot, Domain runs, jumps into a squad car and follows. Patricia McDonald then runs upstairs like a good neighbor. Patricia is there, finds Laurie, I know it's corny, but I got stuck in my head finds Lori facedown in the bathtub she's not breathing McDonald pulls her out

pounds on her back until she coughs up water and blood holy shit hail Patricia McDonald you boss bitch you you fucking Amazon warrior two warriors living one atop the other Melinda Aguilar pulled off some Street Fighter 2 slash Ninja slash Chuck Norris slash crouchinging Tiger Hidden Dragon John Wick shit. Once you flew off the balcony, head first with her hands bound, rolled her ass into a run off the concrete. Cops should have let Melinda and Patricia tag team and just beat Carl to death. Okay, Laurie Lister spoke about the attack in an interview with the Houston Chronicle

two decades later in 2002 saying, I remembered an out-of-body experience, like floating, like a leaf down into a pool, but not much more. Mostly I felt an utter lack of control. That's what makes you feel scared after it's over. Ugh. The police were thank God able to chase Carl down and cuff him. He wasn't able to quite slip away this time. Finally, the prowler gets nabbed after eight years of his bloody creepy high jinks.

Now they had him on at least several charges that could put him away for life. Within hours, officers go to Carl's apartment, ask his girlfriend Sheila Williams for permission to search the place, but she demands a warrant. When they return the next day, the apartment is completely empty. Sheila, you fucking moron. Carl was really charged with aggravated kidnapping, burglary, and attempted capital murder. His attorneys knew that his best bet would be to make a plea deal. Attorneys that Carl scared the shit out of. That doesn't happen too often. Really, I don't hear about it too often. Also, just real quick shout out to the defense attorneys for the West Memphis Three. Suck a while back. I haven't meaning to say that. I know I give defense attorneys a lot of shit here, but also I'm aware that their job is an important one

Plenty of innocent people get charged with terrible shit plenty of people guilty of insignificant crimes have been overly harshly sentenced And if you're one of these people, yeah, you need a good defense attorney these defense attorneys They did not want to represent Carl. They were assigned to him and they were terrified One of his lawyers Zanetta Bernie started wearing a crucifix whenever she was around Carl, like didn't wear normally, put it on to be around Carl. Later told a reporter after the trial, there's something evil in the man. He never threatened me. He was always quiet and polite to me, but he scared me more than

anyone I've ever dealt with. Yeah, I bet he would not have hesitated to chokes and edit the fuck out. Now in custody in June of 1982, Carl is sent to Rusk State Hospital, 2.5-hour drive north of Houston for yet another psychiatric evaluation. No one has ever had more psych evals than Carl Watts. He scored a 69 on his IQ test, but the doctor believed this was due to anxiety. He thought Carl's intelligence was a lot higher than that Carl was found competent to stand trial the defense then hired another expert for another evaluation Carl scores a 75 on this IQ test

I call bullshit This dude was real smart. I bet he fucked the results on purpose trick the doctors trying to gain sympathy or something August 2nd 1982 Carl agrees to plead guilty to aggravated burglary and attempted murder in exchange for a big confession to a lot of unsolved murders. He's promised a 60 year sentence and immunity from prosecution and any of the other murder cases he will confess to. Prosecutors later said they made the deal because there was no physical evidence linking Carl to any actual murders. They claim the victim's families agreed that the plea bargain would ease their minds. However, most of the families later said they were not informed about this deal. Carl began his confession on August 9th.

The day the deal was made official. Carl was just about to begin his trial. Harris County, ADA, Ira Jones, talked to Carl while they waited for the jury to arrive. Their conversation was reported by the Dallas Observer. Jones said, Carl, you've got a daughter. If your daughter was missing, wouldn't you want to know what happened to her? Carl's answer was a brief, yes.

Jones asked, if you had a daughter who was dead, wouldn't you want a barrier? Carl said, sure. Jones continued, could you get up and lead me to a body right now? And Carl just calmly responded, Yes. Carl would soon proceed to confess to various murders and he would not stop talking for a full 28 hours.

When he began, he wanted to speak with Detective Tom Ladd. According to a guy in the Dallas Observer, Tom Ladd had played Watts' babysitter when Boss Doc and his partner tried to get Watts to talk after his arrest. Ladd told the Observer they'd play good cop, bad cop. Coral knew the techniques. He'd just shrug and say, why don't you talking about? Then they'd leave and I'd watch him. Coral and I always got along

because I wasn't trying to get him to confess. Well, Coral would admit to him now to attacking 19 women and killing 13 of them. These murders all took place in Houston, Galveston, and Austin. Coral said he was willing to confess to another 22 murders in Michigan he was never charged with, more unsolved homicides, but Michigan refused to participate in the plea bargain with Texas officials, right? He was only going to confess to those extra murders

if they also would be cool with his 60, you know, year sentence and nothing more. He also admitted to assaulting Julius Sanchez, Patty Johnson and Alice Martel. When pressed about why he chose his victims, Carl said, she had evil eyes. I could see her eyes and they were evil. And then he creepily repeated that over and over. Lots of evil eye talk. Interesting for a guy whose own eyes were considered evil by so many, I wonder were women rightfully looking at him

with fear in their eyes because he was a lurky, prowley creep and then he didn't like the way he's being looked at, and he decided they were the evil ones. Their eyes were messed up. Who knows? What a spooky thing to say. I could see her eyes and they were evil.

Carl said he took items from the victims, such as shirt, jewelry, pants, or purse, and then he would later burn those items or throw them into a sewer, and he did all this to, quote, kill her spirit. Detective Ladd recalled that Carl had excellent memory, excellent memory, excellent memory. Very very intelligent.

He never got the facts of one murder mixed up with the facts of another murder he never missed. This guy was not dumb, wicked smart and evil. Investigators still don't know exactly what made Carl choose certain women over others. Sometimes he drove all night looking for a victim. Detective Ladd told CBS later, one girl he just walked up and she turned and he stabbed one time in the heart and turned around and ran away. Probably didn't spend 15 seconds there, even at the scene. And then an hour and a half later, we killed another one. I doubt there was a rational reason for his choices,

right? This guy was smart, but also so crazy. I guess he just wandered around driven by some powerful blood lust and then when he saw some, you know, woman, he who he thought he saw evil in their eyes, something clicked in his crazy-ass head and he just felt compelled to attack. Right? Once they were dead, he felt some sort of pressure release like when he had those violent nightmares of killing women. He was a young teen, right? When the psychiatrist asked him if the nightmare scared him and he said, no, I feel better after having one. You know, he felt better after killing these women. The Carl led the police to sue Cyril's body on August 10th while they watched the digging.

Carl demanded a hamburger and change for info. Did wanted to enjoy a tasty burger as he watched them dig up one of his kills. He expressed zero emotion at any of the crime sites. Never expressed an ounce of remorse for any of his victims or their families as they were uncovering the body and he choked down some beef He told them about the murder of Kerry Jefferson Then later the same day Carl straight up told detective Tom Ladd quote, you know if I ever get out I'm gonna do it again This fucker loved to kill truly loved it

August 11th, 1982 Carl reveals the location of Kerry Jefferson's body next day Carl leaves police to the culvert where Emily LaCroix's body was hidden. Also went on a drive with investigators showed them some of the spots where he attacked other victims. Sleeping Man was seen in a lot of these locations. I know. Also in August of 1982, Ann Arbor detective Paul Motherfucking Button flew to Houston to talk to Carl about some Michigan murders, but was rebuffed because Washington, Iowa County, Michigan, where Ann Arbor was located, would not grant him immunity. Later that year, he and forensic psychologist Dr. Harley Stock came back to Texas

to the prison where Carl was being held again, trying to talk to him about the Ann Arbor murders. They spent eight hours with him, but he continued to refuse to talk about cases where he would not receive immunity. Bunton asked if he had killed other women in Texas he had had not confessed to Carl wouldn't say, but Bunton got the distinct impression he knew where a lot more bodies were buried. According to Bunton, Carl also never fully would explain why he killed in general. All he would say was, I'll take that to my grave with me. I feel like if he ever gave an answer, it wouldn't be a satisfying one.

Right. Just more evil eyes, bullshit. I wonder if Carl even knew truly why he killed, beyond some crazy compulsion. Right? I mean, some notion of certain women being evil, you know, his dark passion to quote Dexter, I believe, compelling him to butcher woman after woman. But beyond that, did he really understand where all that came from? I doubt it. At one point, Detective Button asked him, Coral, I have, Coral, excuse me, I haven't got enough fingers and toes to count the

number of people you've killed, have I? And Carl answered, matter of fact, Lee There's not enough fingers and toes in this room. There were four people in the room, right? 80 fingers and toes 80 or more victims Butten asked Carl if he confessed to everything he did in Texas and Carl just said no He also said he didn't want to confess to more murders because he did not want to be known as a mass murderer Weird lines people draw to more murders because he did not want to be known as a mass murderer. Weird lines people draw. The Dallas Observer spoke to Dr. Harley Stock in 2003 and Stock was involved in the Sunday

morning slasher case in 1980. And while Carl did not rape the victims, Dr. Stock is of the mind that the attacks were sexually motivated. He told a journalist for the Observer, Watts had a fantasy in his mind of the victim that is brewing there. Then he goes out and seeks someone who matches his fantasy. He killed him within a certain range, within a certain look. Maybe they were the kind of women he wanted but could never get.

These events seem to be spontaneous and unprovoked, but they are very well planned. When he goes after someone, he gets as much enjoyment in stalking the victim as he does in killing the person. He enjoys the physical sensation of having the power over life and death. He was looking for new ways to make people squirm before they died. He was looking for new ways to get enjoyment and he wanted to thwart the police.

Ugh, man, Karl reminds me of a hunter. Reminds me of that serial killer, Robert the Butcher Baker Hansen, who we sucked in episode 148, right? That psycho in Alaska who would kidnap women, take them out to a secluded area of Forestry to release him and then just literally hunt them September 3rd 1982 Carl formally sentenced via his plea deal to 60 years in prison

But first as he left the courtroom watch literally said out loud if they ever released me I'm gonna kill again So that's cool That sounds like a guy, you know, who should be going to plea deal. And then that's all she wrote, right? Carl is about to turn 29. He's an admitted serial killer and in 60 years he'll be 89. So we don't have to worry about him prowling around anymore. No, that's not all she wrote.

This dude will come so close to being released from prison and able to start killing again. This is such a ridiculous, forgotten part of true crime history here. Less than six months later, February 20, 1993, Carl tries to escape from prison. The Dallas Observer reported that he took off his shirt, corded his torso with hair gel, to try to be slippery enough to slip through a small window after creating a makeshift dummy to leave in his cell.

He was fortunately caught in the act, sent to solitary for 15 days before being released back into the general population to finish the rest of his sentence But now with time tacked on for this escape attempt That attempt will cost him four years nine months and 86 days added to his sentence But more importantly it'll buy investigators enough time to make sure he never gets released if he hadn't have tried to escape from prison He would have walked free three years later Carl

Files the first of a few appeals in 1986. September of 1987, Carl files a handwritten appeal alleging that the police had threatened to put his daughter in a home, that his attorneys in the prosecutor promised he would not be sentenced for an aggravated crime and that mandatory supervision would not be part of his sentence. In an affidavit, his attorneys, Annetta Burney, the woman who was terrified of him, who thought Carl was legit evil, denied that he was threatened or made an involuntary plea.

The judge now appoints Carl a new attorney named Charles Baer to handle the appeal. Charles and Carl, what a team. October of 1987, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals issued a decision that certain criminals have a constitutional right to parole in good conduct time and are entitled to notice at the time of indictment that a deadly weapon finding might be made. A deadly weapon finding would leave prisoners much less eligible to ever get early release. No idea why this law was ever passed. Who gives a fuck if someone uses a gun to kill somebody else or their bare hands?

Under this stupid law, a murderer who shot someone will be punished more than a murderer who chokes someone out. To me, the person who uses their hands is scarier, right? They might not have access to a gun if they get released, but they will for sure have access to the murder hands. March 1st, 1989, the Texas Court of Appeals rules that Carl was not informed that the bathtub and water in the assault against Laurie Lister was considered legally a deadly weapon, that the bathtub and water in the assault against Laurie Lister was considered legally a deadly weapon. And that ruling, idiotically, technically, reclassifies Carl as a nonviolent felon. Seriously, can you believe this shit? This law allows murderers, even an admitted, confessed serial killer,

who led investigators to numerous victims' dead bodies, like Carl, to be classified as nonviolent. We've had some real idiot politicians and lawmakers. The mandatory supervision statute of 1977 required early release for nonviolent inmates. The law was rescinded in 1987 largely because Carl Watts became the fucking poster child for how stupid this law was, but it still applied to Carl's case. He was grandfathered in. Several Texas lawmakers will try and figure out how to not apply this loophole to Carl,

but they will fail. While Carl was incarcerated, Texas allowed nonviolent inmates to take up to three days off their sentence for every one day of good behavior. Carl, a model prisoner, after his escape attempt, would be able to reduce his sentence by over 35 years with good time credits, meaning he could be mandatory released in his early 50s. Strong-duped, former football player, former Golden Gloves boxer who stayed in shape always. Carl could be released and have a decade or two in him of still being able to be plenty strong enough to prowl and overpower woman after woman after woman.

Carl is classified as a class one inmate, which earned him 20 days of good time for every 30 days served. Also was given class three trustee status, which earned him an additional 10 days for every 30 days. This is insane. Carl was denied parole for the fifth time in November of 2002, but who gives a shit because during this hearing, he's scheduled for mandatory release May 8th, 2006, when he's going to be 52. This is bad. This is real bad. Carl Watts looked to say everybody like he was well on his way to becoming the first known serial killer ever to be released from prison. And how crazy is this?

Again, if it was not for that additional sense for his prison escape, he would have already been let out. Had he not tried that bullshit, he would have 100% been released and started killing again. Bunch of publicity around this case leads to national outrage. You know, it's devastating to the survivors and started killing again. Bunch of publicity around this case leads to national outrage. You know, it's devastating to the survivors and victims' families. Carl Sitcher-Sherron spoke to the Dallas Observer from her home in Detroit.

She wasn't worried. She said, there are victims on both sides of the fence. Fuck this happening. His children are just as innocent as those other people. Yeah, except they're dead. I feel bad for those families, but I feel for his family, for my mother. They should be able to live this down. She said about her brother. He views the world different like as a now I personally don't think he has energy to get out to some he's just he's too tired him and Greg

They're both too sleepy to kill now Bullshit fuck you Sharon and fuck your mom stop pretending that Carl's not the devil I'm not sure why Sharon references Carl having children plural. I can't find a single source referencing a child of his, other than his daughter, Nikesha. Now Michigan authorities start working overtime to help keep Carl in prison. January 13th, 2004, Michigan authorities announced they may charge Carl with a 1974 murder of Gloria Steele. If they could convict Carl with a murder he had not already confessed to in Texas as part of his plea deal, he'd get a whole new sense.

He'd never get out. November 2002, after Michigan law enforcement learned he was going to be released, they created a new task force specifically to look through unsolved homicides they could connect him to, and they found 90 cases. 90. Justin Michigan. Michigan's Attorney General Mike Cox went on national TV to appeal for anyone to please come forward with info that could convict Watts in the state of Michigan to ensure he

will never, you know, get out. Cox said at his press conference, this man is a confessed killing machine who has promised to kill again. A man named Joseph Foy came forward as a witness less than 24 hours later. Hail Joseph Foy! Foy saw Carl's Watts' attack on Helen Dutcher, December 1, 1979. The woman stabbed over 30 times in the neck and back. As I mentioned earlier in the timeline, Foy went to the police the day of the attack, helped make a composite sketch. He was the

guy who said Watts had evil eyes, with no emotion. Back in 1982, when Carl was arrested in Houston, Foy saw his picture on TV and called the police in Ferndale, Michigan. He told him, this is the guy who attacked Helen Dutcher and he was told that Carl had already agreed to a plea deal. He'd never be released. 20 years later, when the Houston Chronicle reports on Watts's release in 2002, other outlets pick up the story. One of these outlets is the national outlet MSNBC, which does a story in January 2004.

Joseph Foy luckily sees this program calls the police again to tell them he saw Carl Watts in the night of Helen's murder. Had he not done this, this story could have very likely taken a dark and different turn and this timeline would continue with more murders Carl started to commit after being released. March 4, 2004, based large on eyewitness testimony from Joseph Foy, the Michigan Attorney General's office charges the now 50 year old Carl Watts with the murder of Helen Dutcher about time. April 6th, the governor of Michigan signs extradition papers and Carl is brought to Michigan for trial. Before extraditing

him back to Michigan, prison officials searched his cell, how creepy is this, found pictures of women from newspaper clippings with their eyes cut out. This dude would have for sure started butchering women again. He's straight up evil. October 8th, the judge rules that jurors can hear about the Texas murder confessions at trial. Nice move, judge. Might he admit it to those killings?

The jury should know who this monster is. Carl Watts' trial starts with jury selection, November 8th. A lot is at stake for prosecutors, survivors, the victims' families, women all over the country. Speaking with the News Herald, a paper for Southgate, Michigan, Jane Montgomery, the mother of victim Elizabeth Montgomery, said in November of 2004, If he is freed, then it means no woman in this country is safe. I'm thinking of all women now, not just my daughter.

That's what it's all about now. Mmm. Opening statements started November 9. Assistant Attorney General Donna Pentegras told the jury, The defendants' motive may remain incomprehensible, even at the end of this trial. But the evidence in this courtroom will reveal his identity as the person who committed the murder of Helen Dutcher in cold blood. You'll see the most gruesome images available of a woman literally butchered alive, slashed, sliced, and eviscerated, carved up, left to die in a pool of

blood. This trial will tell the 25-year-old story of the brutal and vicious obliteration of a human life. Yeah. Also Attorney General Donna Penegras, quite the wordsmith. Well done. Penegras told the court that Helen was selected as a victim because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Caroll's pattern was to target women who were alone. Caroll's attorney Ron Kaplavitz asked the jury to set their hatred aside and place at the wrong time. Carl's pattern was to target women who were alone. Carl's attorney, Ron Kaplavitz, asked the jury to set their hatred aside and look at the events of December 1st, 1979. He said they would hear inconsistencies and uncertainties in Joseph Foy's testimony

and that there was no significant evidence against Carl in this case. I looked up some pictures of Ron. He's still practicing law in Michigan today. And he seems like a nice guy. Why, Ron? How? How do you justify trying to get a known killer like Carl back on the streets? Did you pretend to have a good defense strategy, but secretly you were like, fuck this dude. I'm gonna tank this case.

I'm gonna tank this case so this shit would never fly again. I hope so, Ron. November 10th, 2004, Joseph Foy testifies that he locked eyes with Carl while he stood on his porch and looked into the alley where the attack occurred. He said he would never forget the killer's face. November 15th, Carl Watts attack survivors Lori Lister, Melinda Aguilar and Julie Sanchez, testified for the prosecution as well as several officers. Remember Melinda, the woman who yeeted herself off the balcony, pulled off some advanced parkour moves to land safely, run for help? Carl now speaks for the defense.

Ah, this crazy son of a bitch. Here's an excerpt of what he said. There's so much blood in this room. Too much inside of the bodies. Inside of the devils. So many evil eyes. If you'd kindly remove my shackles, I could purge this room of peril. I could crush so many necks, destroy so many unclean spirits. So much beauty in this room. Lady beauty. And it makes me feel ugly. I need to slash

it, drown it it to release the pressure The nightmare for me and this defense lawyer who been trying to quietly shush him finally stood up. He's called shut the fuck up God you creepy son of a bitch. Sorry Ron Capilits There's just so many evil eyes staring Judging me like mama. I can't take it wrong capital bitch. I keep feeling the weight. I Know it's weird voice that didn't fit him at all. It feels right. He's a demon early on November 17 2004 the assistant district attorney Calamazoo James Gregert go Jimmy go Jimmy Greg. Oh, not the sleepy Greg announced They would also charge Carl for the murder of Gloria Steel.

No matter what the outcome of Helen Dutcher's case was, he wanted to make sure this pilot dog shit died in prison. Later that day, Carl was found guilty of first degree murder in the case of Helen. December 7th, Carl Watts makes a statement in court about Helen Dutcher saying, I never seen her in all my life. This is one murder I did not do. You know, okay, sure. Sure, Carl. Uh, and maybe, maybe he also said in his real voice,

Hal and Zeiss were pure. I never wanted to close him. I am Caron, the ferryman of the underworld, the raper, harbinger of death. Please, Ron Kaplavitz, make them understand. of death. Please, Ron Kaplavitz, make them understand. I am but a vessel of change. I take the evil-eyed Lady Larva and make beautiful death butterflies out." And then the lawyer said, CAUSE THAT THE FUCK UP! Sorry, Your Honor. No one knows what you're talking about, Carl. Just stop talking. Sorry, Ron Kaplavitz. There's just so much weight, so much pressure, so many evil eyes. Carl was sentenced to life in prison. December 9th, authority started proceedings to try Carl for the murder of Gloria Steele.

Carl's try for the murder of Gloria Steele started in Kalamazoo. July 25th, 2007, the trial was brief. On July 27th, he was found guilty of first-degree murder here as well. Why Ron Kapovitch? Why don't you understand that I am both I am both the sight of the scion, the harvester of lost souls. Please, your honor, can you please kill my client? He's a nightmare. It hurts my throat.

September 13th, 2017, he receives a second sentence of life without parole. And then eight days later, Carl, Coral, Evil Eyes, Murder Robot, Fuckface, Shitstain, King of the Demon Prowlers, Eugene Watts, dies of prostate cancer at a hospital in Jackson, Mississippi, the age of 53. Good riddance! Too bad he didn't die a long time before he did like at birth. Let's get out of here. Good job, soldier. You made it back. What a scary dude. I mean all these killers are scary, but at least with some you can think, well, you know, I wouldn't make that choice. I wouldn't put myself in that situation. I wouldn't I wouldn't hitchhike. Uh, I wouldn't get into a stranger's car.

I wouldn't get into, you know, go into some random dude's house. But with this guy, uh, yeah, do you ever go home alone? Do you ever walk into your fucking house after parking in front of it on the street or in your garage, ever go jogging in the morning, ever walk down the damn sidewalk? Would you, would you try and fix your tire on the side of a busy road? If you had a flat? Ever hang out in the apartment you share with your roommate during the middle of the day? Ever go for a jog in the morning?

Ever walk to work? Carl's victims were doing the most normal shit and out of nowhere, a real life demon just flew into their lives and with no warning, started slashing or punching or grabbing and choking. There was no time to beg for their lives, he just immediately started to kill them. Like he was a demented robot programmed to kill certain random women on site as fast as possible. Then move on to the next victim. I can easily imagine this guy being America's most prolific serial killer.

He didn't linger, didn't return to crime scenes, didn't keep his victims alive for weeks or days or hours or even a few minutes. Just a flurry of violence And then he snuck away. How many other women did you randomly stab, choke, punch or try to drown? Women who lived, who we'll never hear from, several hundred, over a thousand? Just seemed like he was constantly running around causing so much mayhem. Why? Why did he hate young attractive white women so much? Did he think, uh, daddy left the family for one?

Is that what, uh what mommy told him? Or was there no real rhyme and reason? So what he did, you know, why he did it? Was it as simple as he got a bad, bad fever from meningitis? His brain got a little damaged, didn't heal properly. Wiring got, you know, twisted. Wiring that left him somewhat randomly with the compulsion to kill. Was it some kind of weird anger over his mom remarrying?

Why kill only women? Why young attractive women? Right? Were his kills sexual, but only in a way that Carl would understand? So many questions with Carl Watts. Went by the nickname of Coral. I'm not going to even claim to really understand him, but Sonny Hollister, he does claim to understand him, you know, a little more than me, maybe, or at least, you know, claims little more than me maybe. Or at least, you know, claims how he could have caught this guy. Let's much faster than you know, he was out front. Let's hear what the suck versus premier

crime stopper has to say about all this. The Detective Hollister here beats ex. Cheesecake Factory store detective. Happy 2024. Been a minute since I've said hello. Not sure why I've been riding the proverbial time-suck bench these past five or six weeks. I could have offered a tremendous amount of professional insight into a lot of recent topics. But that's neither here nor there. Coral Watts, huh?

Why did it take authorities so long to catch him? They were going about it the wrong way. You don't track a guy like Coral. You don't bully him. You get to catch him. They were going about it the wrong way. You don't track a guy like Carl. You don't bully him. You get to know him. You refer to him by his preferred name, Cummins. You befriend him, speak his language. Talk about all the women around the world

with their evil eyes. How much harm they do. How the world will be so much better if their spirits could be destroyed. buy his friendship shower him with gifts Make him think you really care about him make him think the two of you should go hunting together Two wicked minds are better than one one man grabs the other Operates as a lookout and then when he finally makes his move bang bang chicken and shrimp Billy club to the back of the head, cuffs around the wrist,

and then you light two cigarettes. One for yourself. The other for the dams where you just save from distress. And you bask in the glow of being a hero. It reminds me of a time at the Cheesecake Factory in Honolulu's Royal Hawaiian Shopping Center when I had to befriend an eight-year-old woman who kept dining and dashing.

Her I guess dining and rolling off in her wheelchair. She thought age and disability would prevent me from doing my job. She was wrong. I'll never forget the moment I bounced her face off a plate of four cheese pasta. Gotcha, Cram-O! Good times. Good times. And until next time, you keep listening to True Crime, and I'll keep stopping it.

Stay sunny, everyone. Ah, sunny Hollister. What a legend. God, thanks, Sonny. That cleared stuff up or something. Uh, Carl Watts, dude is still a suspect and 90 unsolved murders in Michigan alone, and these cases and others in Windsor, Canada, and all over Texas will probably never be solved, right? Due to a lack of physical evidence.

We'll never know just how many evil eyes Carl thought he saw and eliminated. Time now for today's takeaways. physical evidence. We'll never know just how many evil eyes Carl thought he saw and eliminated. Time now for today's takeaways. Time suck, tough five takeaways. Number one, Carl Eugene Watts may be the most prolific serial killer in US history. He confessed to 13 murders in Texas and he would confess to 22 in Michigan but never did.

Said he would though, you know, confess to those. Once implied that he committed over 80 additional murders. And the Michigan Task Force connected him to 90 unsolved homicides in just that state. Number two, Carl Watts was known as the Sunday Morning Slasher for his series of murders that took place in Ann Arbor, Michigan. The women were stabbed to death early on Sunday mornings, which is how the press arrived at that horror movie-esque name. Number three, Carl Watts attacked victims somewhat at random. Sometimes driving all night before he selected a woman he felt compelled to stalk and kill.

He never fully explained his reasoning, only telling interrogators that the women had evil eyes. Number four, with a man named Joseph Foy stepping forward, Carl Watts may have died a free man. Foy witnessed the assault of Helen Dutcher before Carl Watts dragged her into an alley and killed her. He held the police with the composite sketch in 1979, but Carl was not arrested at the time. In 1982, he saw Carl's face on TV after he was arrested in Texas and called the police to tell them the man who killed, he knew who the man was who killed Helen Dutcher was this guy. He was told Carl would spend the rest of his life in prison when Michigan's attorney general pleaded with the public in 2004 to come forward with info that can convict Carl. Joseph Foy came

forward again and would testify against him at his trial. Hail Joseph Foy! And number five, new info. Remember Howard Mosley, the man sentenced to life in prison for the January 30th, 1982 assault against Patty Johnson? When Watts confessed to Patty's attack, it looked like Mosley, the man sentenced to life in prison for the January 30th, 1982 assault against Patty Johnson? When Watts confessed to Patty's attack, it looked like Mosley would be released, but not so fast. The prosecutors speculated that Mosley was Watts' accomplice. And then Mosley failed a polygraph when questioned that regard. Nevertheless, on August 17, 1982, Galveston County's 56th District Court did grant Mosley's motion for a new trial. Then Galveston County's 56th District Court did grant Mosey's motion for a new trial. Then Galveston County District Attorney James Sheary agreed to dismiss the charge against

Mosey for the attack on Johnson. But then, Mosey remained in jail briefly on an unrelated assault charge in parole violation. Luckily, both of those charges were dropped on September 2, 1982, and then Mosey was released after being falsely incarcerated. Linda Sanchez, who Mosey had married during his brief time in prison, said she never doubted he would be set free because she knew he was innocent. She was with him the entire night that Patty got assaulted. Can you imagine you are with your partner the entire night that somebody else gets attacked and then they get arrested for the attack anyway and convicted and sent to prison for life. And then when the real

perpetrator confesses, they still keep your partner locked up for a bit. Man, I admire the job good cops do and good prosecutors, but also I do understand why some people hate the criminal justice system. If I got fucked over like that, if my wife or son or somebody else I love got fucked over, oh, I'd be real tempted to hate cops, prosecutors, the judge, whoever was part of the bullshit as well.

Finally, Mosey was really yet another victim of Carl Watts, right? Had Carl not done what he did to Patty, he would have never been put in prison. Time sucked. Tough five takeaways. The Sunday morning slasher Carl Watts has been sucked. Another dude, I'm so glad he's now dead. And I'm still trying to not think about Sleepy Gregg. That's gonna pop up with me for a while, I think. Just anytime I come across like a murderer,

I'm just gonna picture some dude, fucking, been kind of awake, just pops up for a second, sees what's going on, just falls back asleep. Wish I had more info about exactly why he was so goddamn tired. Thanks to the Bad Magic Productions team for all the help making Time Sucks, starting with the Queen of Bad Magic, Lindsay Cummins, to Olivia Lee with Initial Research again. Thanks to Logan Keith recording today's episode. Thanks to the Spacelifters on Patreon for continuing to support this show and get early release ad free episodes.

Thanks to the All C&Is moderating the Cult of the Curious Private Facebook page, the Mod Squad making sure the Time Sucks Discord channel stays fun. And thanks to everyone over on the Time Sucks subreddit and Bad Magic subreddit. And you can go to badmagicmerch.com or you can go to badmagicproductions.com for all your merch needs. And we got a bunch of new stuff I'm wearing, one of the shirts right now. We're in a dead giveaway shirt. Got some cool new collections.

And now let's head on over to this week's Time Sucker updates. Updates! Get your Time Sucker updates! First up, a little semantics update from a studio sucker who would like to remain anonymous. I'm always learning something new in the research and also from you all and I love it. And they write, hey guys, I'm a long time sucker and my wife has been a space-sitter for many years now. Well, thanks, thank you, and thank your wife. We love what you do.

That being said, when I was listening to the recent ish suck on Colonel Sanders, you used the word coulee to mean simply laborer. While this is technically correct, this term carries a similar weight and connotation as the N word in the Caribbean community, particularly among Indo-Caribbean people such as myself. It's a pejorative term used by, among others, British colonialists in the Caribbean to refer to indentured workers of Indian or Asian descent. I was completely taken aback to hear the word come out of Dan's mouth. Of course, I am very much inclined to believe that Dan was simply ignorant to this fact

because it is not a common term here in the Pacific Northwest. So I'm not trying to say that he meant it that way, but intent is irrevolent. When it comes to the casual use of racial slurs, I'm sure you will agree. Below is a link to an NPR article that does a far better job than I can of explaining the history, especially in relation to the American vernacular, why you should not use this word. I'm not one to take offense easily, but it was truly jarring to hear a slur that has been directed at me personally in the past come from Dan.

To quote the final lines of the linked article, For many in the Caribbean community, the word is a painful reminder of the troubled history of indentured labor in the Americas. It is also worth noting that we are not far removed from those directly affected. For example, in the article, there's a reference to getting on indentured ships in the early 1900s. My great-grandmother was on one of those ships, and others of her generation, of course. But hers are the only papers that still exist.

So I, a 33- I, a 33-year-old in Alberta, am only three generations removed from the brutality of indentured labor in the Caribbean. I hope the dam will take this opportunity to educate my fellow suckers about the harmful connotations of that word. Please feel free to use this email in fuller and part, but kindly omit my name. I hope the dam will take this opportunity to educate my fellow suckers about the harmful connotations of that word. Please feel free to use this email in fuller in part, but kindly omit my name if this should make its way into a Time Sucker Update segment. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Hail Nimrod, keep on sucking. Anonymous.

Well, thank you, Anonymous. Yeah, I was not familiar with the word at all. I did look it up because I wasn't familiar with it before I used it. And the primary definition, yeah, is just a hired labor. Secondary definition, an unskilled worker, a Cooley is an unskilled worker, an Asian worker, usually of Chinese or Indian descent. Third definition, a native or inhabitant of Asia. According to vocabulary.com, a Cooley is a native, yeah, sorry, I keep repeating myself here. Then using Google generated AI to find more definitions that come up in a pejorative sense, I found a pejorative term used for low wage laborers. The word was first used in the 16th century by European traders across

Asia in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Yeah, yeah, just these people were employed in mines, ports, plantations, construction sites, as rickshaw pullers. Last thing I can find is that it's an archaic offensive term referring to a low wage laborer, specifically a Chinese laborer. But yeah, but I bring all this up just to further your point and also illustrate how hard it can be sometimes to know what words may offend someone. Because at casual glance, or if you just like the dictionary, it doesn't show any connotation, at least not the web dictionaries I looked at.

Literally never heard the word before my life. So yes, it was used out of ignorance. Uh, and it was used in the source I used. And thank you for understanding that. Uh, glad you brought it to my attention. Uh, one more thing though, I actually do agree, or I'm, excuse me, I do disagree, uh, regarding intent when it comes to language. I feel intent matters a tremendous amount.

Saying a pejorative word out of complete ignorance, I believe is extremely different than knowing what it means and using it anyway. But I'm not sure if that's the differentiation you intended. The only power any word has in my opinion is the power we assign to it. And if someone is saying a word that they have no idea is upsetting to anybody,

then why give it the same power? You would give it if somebody else is wielding like a club and using it to kind of beat you down. Yeah. I think intent is important in many facets of life. Even in the criminal justice system, not all murders are viewed as equal, right? Someone who intended to kill someone and then did so, punished more severely in every culture on earth than someone who killed another person when they did not intend to. So yes, so in apologies for the unintended offense.

And now I know. And if I start tossing that word around willy nilly in future episodes, well, then you know I am an asshole. Uh, next up, otmar hernandez writes, uh, This is a funny, this is a funny email. Glory to triple m. This fun sucker sends in a glory to triple M. Praise the suck master patch. Say Jack travel buddy, bond jovie historian and guy who wants his wife to submit gosh dang Hey, Dan and fellow cult member first time right in and well, Dan

I've elicited into the suck since the pandemic first from scared to death Then over to time suck over the years. I've elicited the suck and quite often I've been Cummins laud with my Mexican parents Just picture me trying to explain to my parents all your silly jokes Sometimes it's been difficult especially when explaining it in espanol Well, I've just finished the recent suck on the lady of silence and at one point you started to ramble in Spanish with your infamous Bon Jovi song Lo and behold you shocked my parents My dad's response was,

jule que estas chuchando son. What do you listen to? Now, my mom followed with, es tu tiempo chupado con Daniel Vardad. Uh, that's your time to suck with Daniel, right? I responded with C towards which they just looked at each other and said, you're a Spanish is okay. Hmm. Do better, please. Do better, please do better, please

Oh my god. I was laughing so hard. They were also Love the suck, especially the short sucks. Oh, that's cool. Keep popping them out and uh, if you're touching on some Mexico topics Here's one Uh, look into gloria trevi. It involves a sex cult petal manager deaths some outlandish stuff Anyway, not sorry if it linked this email adios chupada maestro death, some outlandish stuff. Anyway, not sorry if it linked this email. Adios, chupada maestro! Goodbye, sockmaster. Apologies if this was hard to read. Thank you, Atmar. Holy shit, that cracks me up. I love you translating, crazy shit I say to your parents. And I love that they told me regarding my Spanish. Do better, please. You know, the same could be said for

my English sometimes. I felt like my mouth is out of control today. Glad you're enjoying the show and enjoyed Juan's crazy ass story. Now, this next message, it comes in from supposed level 10 lightworker, but maybe level 3.2 zombie demon instead. James, I'm going to leave his last name out of this even though he didn't ask me to because I'm worried about his safety. James writes, Greetings champion of hell track. And part-time bicycle dancer. I was stopped in my tracks last week,

pun intended, as I'm a locomotive engineer. I spend days out of town and when I do love a little ear candy while I'm working out, I was getting caught up on Time Suck. But being a level 10 lightworker, I thought I would give you a little insight to the crazy that is Lori Vallow. I've been friends with and dated Laurie's bestie, April Raymond. Wow, she lived with me in Utah at the beginning of all the craziness. April was a state's witness and would frequently do interviews for Date Line and other shows. She actually shot a video interview in my living room for Dr. Oz in 2020. Shortly after that interview, she was warned Chad Debel might have people out to get her.

She became increasingly paranoid and after she shared some of the unreleased details like cannibalism, I became a little more sketched out. The theory was Lori was trying to steal April's identity. They would travel together, Lori would buy April clothes, and a few times, when they were in Phoenix and elsewhere, people would see them and address Lori as April, even though she had never been to these spots before. That's creepy. Lori owned a Jew stand in Hawaii that was a stone throw from where April worked and April's convinced that during their friendship, Lori was poisoning her and planning on stealing her identity.

Uh, there is a lot of money from Lori's ex-husband Charles that is still unaccounted for. When I asked April about all this insanity and why she didn't cut ties with Lori when she first started talking about portals and demons. She said that all their friends thought Lori was having a mental breakdown and was just trying to fit into Chad's world. It all sounded ridiculous. She said they thought it would be just a phase.

Uh, she did relay one story that Lori told her about Chad, the Angel Maroni, blowing his trumpet as she kneeled before him and he showered her with blessings. So she gave him a blow job. What the fuck I said. Uh, April began to see conspiracies around every corner, uh, as the trial moved on, and eventually she moved back to Hawaii. Uh, by this point, I had cars parked out in front of my house and follow me around town. I had to sell my house because things did seem to get pretty bad.

I went into the hospital in 2021 for a COVID shot complication, and rarely speak to April these days. A mutual friend keeps me updated but says that the conspiracies around human trafficking, satanic rituals, and end-of-the-world prepper shit has taken a toll on this wonderful woman. Having your best friend try and poison her and kill kids that were truly like a son and daughter to April has jaded her beyond anything imaginable. The other things that I have been told, if true, make this a much more terrible story, it will be worse than we can imagine.

Sorry for the long email, if you do read this, please give a shout out to my crib midgets, Caleb and Camden. They don't get to listen to every time suck as they're 12 and 13. But when they do always, uh, but when they do, they always give a big three out of five stars. Love you, Dan James. Oh, James, damn dude, that is scary shit. Man, be careful with anyone related to Chad, Lori, your friend, April. You can't reason with unreasonable people.

And if they truly see you as some kind of demonic zombie, they might think it's time to take you out and try and do so. Right. Someone is fucking crazy as Lori's hit man of a brother. Oh man. Uh, how sad about April, uh, collateral damage, right? Sometimes crazy is infectious. You got to be careful who you hang out with, what echo chambers you find

yourself in, because you can catch crazy and lose all sight of reality. And it's real hard to cure sometimes. Glad you two are not together anymore. Keep your distance and enjoy those crib midgets, Caleb and Camden. Great names and I'm sure they're great boys. Okay, one more. Some interesting head injury info from Sharp Sack,

James Madel, James writes, Hi there, MasterMotionouth. I'm not sure if this is where it is sending something like this. You nailed it, Bojangles it, timest, MasterMotionmouth. I'm not sure if this is where it ascended, something like this. You nailed it. Bojangles at timescookpodcast.com. But I figured why not give it a shot? I was listening to the Aaron Hernandez suck, and at one point you mentioned how odd it is that football helmets are thicker,

have more padding, but concussions rose by 18%, I think. It made me immediately think of a book I read a while ago called Born to Run by Christopher McDougal. In it, McDougal, maybe McDougall, I don't know this guy, makes his case for barefoot running. Still not sure what to think about it. While doing so, he discusses how people have been found to have more injuries when using shoes with thicker padding. Now the part that I found really interesting was that McDougall noted a study done at

McGill University in Montreal. There a medical doctor, Stephen Robbins and a PhD, Edward Wicked, ran some tests on gymnasts. They adjusted the thickness of the padding in the floor for gymnasts, but didn't tell them. The interesting thing is these gymnasts came down harder on the floor with thicker padding, even though they had no clue which floors had thicker padding or thinner.

In this case, it was because without consciously thinking about it, the gymnasts were sensing the thicker floor and coming down harder for better balance. The thicker the padding, the harder they had came down to ensure balance. Obviously, football players aren't looking for stability and balance through their helmets, but I wonder if subconsciously the players think they can hit harder because they have more padding. Our bodies are amazing machines.

I think we often forget how many of their systems are basically run on autopilot. So who knows? That would take someone much smarter than me to figure out, but maybe that's a part of it. Anyway, I thought it was interesting. Maybe thought you would think so too. I did. Enjoy some much deserved time off. We're all big fans of you. We're not going to be upset to find out. You're also human like the rest of us. LOL. Thanks for laughing. Thanks for all the laughs and spooks. Stay scared and keep on sucking. A faithful Annabelle, Jeff Madel. I was able to say Madel because he put in parentheses. Madel rhymes with ladle, maybe

ask Lindsay how to pronounce ladle, L-O-L. Jeff, I mean, what you write makes sense to me. I've actually talked to my dad about something similar. When he's not, you know, killing people and prowling, of course. My dad's a big boxing guy and has been his whole life. And we were talking about why boxers seem to get punch-trunk a lot, especially heavyweights. And MMA fighters don't seem to as often. And we theorize it's because, you know, with boxing, especially if you're a really big dude, you're hitting harder and a lot more often because your gloves are so padded that you don't have to worry about breaking your hand the same way, right?

But all those hard shots rattle people's brains in their skulls the same way, uh, as a fist would, you know, the glove doesn't matter in that sense. And we, we talked about rugby that way also, like not as much CTE, uh, with rugby, even though, you know, it's a very similar tackle sport. But because of the lack of padding, dudes are not throwing themselves around the field like human missiles. Uh, last thing, I don't know, your email reminded me, I started

doing squats at the gym for the first time recently with no shoes. Way better than with shoes. My knees are already thanking me. I feel so much more in tune with the floor, my balance way better. Yeah, sometimes, you know, the way our bodies are built naturally is better than the Yakutramats. We add to them. Thanks for the information, everybody. And yeah, I appreciate a lot of very informative emails this week. Thanks, Time Suckers. I needed that. We all did.

Thanks for listening to another Bad Magic Productions Podcast. Scared to Death, Time Suck each week. Short Sucks and Nightmare Fuel on the Time Suck and Scared to Death feed some weeks now. Please don't stab, strangle, punch, or drown any random women this week because you think their eyes were evil. Maybe they're just having trouble with their contacts or forgot their sunglasses and it's been, you know, kind of bright out. Just, you know, just don't worry about their eyes and keep on sucking. And magic productions. This is such a creepy voice on itself, Underdoo. Ron Kaplavich, why couldn't you set me free?

I had so much more work left to do. So many more evil-eyed spirits that needed destruction. Oh well, I'm in hell now. I'm home now, Ron Kapljevic. I'm back with Daddy. Daddy Devil. He doesn't want to play with me though, Ron Kapljevic. No one wants to play my hurt games. I told Daddy that I've soon. He doesn't make time for his special son. I'll have to return to Earth and find more playmates there.