Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 426 - The San Francisco Witch Killers

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

In the early 1980s, Suzan and Michael Carson were very worried about witches. They thought there witches all over America, even the President, Ronald Regan, was a witch. And sometimes, in order to defend themselves from the dark magic of witches, they had to kill them. They had to! It was self-defense. This is what they and there defense attorney would actually claim, in court, when they were finally caught and charged with multiple murders. Did I mention that Suzan and Michael were completely out of their minds and regularly taking hallucinogens? They were. Been saving this one for the week of Halloween. Enjoy! True Tales of Hallow's Eve 4. Hope to see you there! Here's the ticket link: https://www.moment.co/scaredtodeathMerch and more: www.badmagicproductions.com Timesuck Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious PrivateFacebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch-related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard? Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast.Sign up through Patreon, and for $5 a month, you get access to the entire Secret Suck catalog (295 episodes) PLUS the entire catalog of Timesuck, AD FREE. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. And you get the download link for my secret standup album, Feel the Heat.

They totally for sure met over a thousand years ago in a different lifetime. They were meant to find each other. These soulmates had a divine purpose. They were Allah's warriors, his assassins. And they would destroy anyone who opposed God's laws and prepare the world for inevitable nuclear warfare. And even more important, they needed to kill any and all witches who stood in their way.

Including the world's head witch, then President of the United States, Ronald Reagan. Sure,, including the world's head witch, then president of the United States, Ronald Reagan. Sure, Nancy might have looked like a witch, but Ronnie was the real witch. Their names are Susan and Michael Carson, and they are a pair of very well-adjusted logical pragmatic champions of the people. Said no one ever. Uh, no, they're completely insane. And when they were free, they were high most of the time, often on hallucinogens. And they became known as the San Francisco Witch Killers. Susan and Michael met at a party in the late 1970s after Susan, who had clearly been struggling

with her mental health for years already, dropped acid for the first time. Their attraction was instant. And both of them had a feeling the other would change their life. And they would actually be 100% correct in that feeling. By the time Susan's acid trip was over, they were already a couple and talking about getting married. That's how good it was. They had a lot in common.

They were both spiritually seeking people with delusions of grandeur who strongly believed in the supernatural, including these supernatural abilities of extrasensory perception, they were both batshit. And their separate insane notions of reality would intertwine and become stronger and more dangerous and diluted together. These two nomadic, weed-dealing, witch-fearing, drug-loving hippies will bounce around through a variety of lifestyles and religious beliefs, but one thing will remain constant. Their preference for extremism.

Susan and Michael went from identifying as pacifist Christians to self-described Muslim assassins, willing and eager to start a religious revolution. Susan believed she was clairvoyant, a powerful mystic who could ascertain the vibes of people to determine whether they were friend or witch. All their known victims were witches, according to Susan and Michael anyway. I got a wild and witchy tale for the week of Halloween this year. Been

sitting on this one for a minute, saving it for this week. Today we meet Michael and Susan Carson and look into their twisted evolution into witch hunters on another true crime but also cult-like. You just never really know what kind of crazy beliefs are fermenting in the minds of the people around you. Couples Who Kill Together, Stay Together the Cult of the Curious. I'm Dan Cummins, Frankensuck, Bram Stroker's Succula, and you are listening to Time Suck. Hail Nimrod, Hail Lucifina, she loves Halloween. Praise be to good boy Bojangles and glory be to Triple M.

And no announcements this week. Just a happy Halloween Well, I guess maybe one tiny announcement that we will be donating to a charity to help with the recovery efforts for both Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton this next month Yeah, heart goes out to everyone dealing with all of that right now and to so many others around the world dealing with all kinds of shit So let's get into some escapism. Here we go. Warning, I tell this tale with a heavy heart. Pretty bummed about how many listeners I lost thanks to my honest reactions to the troubling topic of last week. I don't regret anything I said and I wouldn't change anything, but we may lose all of our advertisers now.

Thanks to a literal 100% drop amongst our Irish listeners who are also Catholic nuns. Interestingly, we didn't lose any priest listeners, but we lost all, literally all, of our Irish nun listeners. And by all I mean one. So thanks a lot, Sister Margaret O'Flanery! She wrote in, said she'll miss the serial killer episodes and all the women's bicycle jokes, but she can no longer enjoy a podcast whose host aggressively and unapologetically shit on her fellow sisters for their role in Ireland's mother and baby home scandal after they made it all better by donating a memorial plaque for dead babies tossed unceremoniously for years into a literal shithole.

I hope to suck can survive this massive crushing loss. Time will tell. I'll do my best in the meantime to soldier on. Make however many episodes, you know, we have left. Now that the best I can, you know, hope for is just to entertain the few people who listen. Okay. No introduction is really needed before diving into today's story. We've covered a few serial killer couples now, but none of them anything like Michael and Susan Carson. There was Raymond Fernandez and Martha Beck, the Lonely Hearts killers. Fernandez and Beck found victims in personal ad sections of romance magazines.

They even met each other through a personal ad. Beck posed as Fernandez's sister. He charmed women into handing over their money in the mid-20th century. Financial gain was the primary motivation for these two. Both were executed March 8th, 1951. They were terrible people, but not nearly as insane as Michael and Susan.

Also unlike Michael and Susan, Raymond ran the show, not Martha. Gerald and Charlene Gallegos, the sex slave killers, were sexually driven in their murders of at least 11 victims, most of them teenagers between 1978 and 1980. They kept victims as sex slaves before they were murdered. But again, not as mentally unstable as Michael and Susan.

And once again, the man ran the show. Gerald was the one driving their sexual sadism, not Charlene. Gerald died in prison in 2002. Charlene released from prison July of 1997 and she is allegedly still alive. Fred and Rosemary West, holy shit, that's one of the most memorable episodes ever for me. British serial killers who killed at least 12 people over two decades. A lot of rape and torture involved in their killings. Two of their victims were Fred West's first wife and daughter. Another victim was Fred and Rosemary's daughter Heather West. Two of the victims were pregnant when they were killed. They were ruthless.

Fred West died in prison in 1995. Rose West still alive. Both of these killers much more fucked up sexually wise than either Michael or Susan. But again the male half of the duo. Clearly the alpha. They were sexually motivated. Carla Homolka. Paul Bernardo. Aka the Ken and Barbie killers. Were two young Canadians living a secret life. Paul Bernardo. Fucking aspiring rap star, was a serial rapist who targeted at least 13 women. The first victim was Carla's 14 year old

sister. They killed two more times but Carla then turned on Paul after he beat her, taking a plea deal in exchange for a dozen years in prison. And yet again, while a terrible human being, Carla not leading the charge in the killing, Paul was. It was his sexual desires the two chased. But with today's duo, Suzanne will be the one leading the charge. It will be her delusions primarily that will lead this duo to kill. And there won't be a sexual aspect to it. And unlike the previous romantically linked killers we have covered, not motivated by money either. No money, no sex. They will be motivated by visions, by sensing bad

vibes that came from people they thought were witches, brought on by mental illness and drug use. And because of that these two will not be the most sadistic certainly that we have covered, but definitely the weirdest killer duo we have covered so far. Sad of course with the murders, but also wildly entertaining, at least for me. And now I'll tell their full story. Such a fucking weird story in today's timeline and see if you agree. Shrap on those boots soldier. We're marching down a time suck timeline. down a time-suck timeline. Susan Thornel Barnes, later Susan Carson, born September 14, 1941, somewhere in Arizona.

We did a lot of digging, including in genealogical databases, just could not locate a birth certificate. Apparently one has not been digitized, Not in a place easily found at least Maybe Susan did some legal maneuvering in her early life changed her name to hide her true identity for reasons That may always be a mystery. There is a lot of mystery with Susan. We don't know the names of her parents Don't know the names of her siblings or even if she had siblings Records wise it's like she showed up in the world as a fully and very badly formed adult. Several sources say that Susan's dad was an Arizona newspaper executive but was he? No sources name him. Maybe that was just something Susan told people. Susan told a lot of different people a lot of different

things. Not all of it was true. Several sources state that Susan had dyslexia but we don't know when she was diagnosed or how it affected her growing up. All of the major sources on this case state that she was married to a man named Leland when she was young, before she met fellow witch killer Michael Carson. And we assume his last name was Hamilton, as one newspaper source listed her legal name as Susan Thornell Hamilton. Most newspaper articles stated Barnes was Susan's maiden name. Susan reportedly had two children with Leland. At least one was a son. Their names also not listed in any sources.

And by the time Susan turned 35, both her children were allegedly adults. According to numerous sources and journalist and author Richard D. Reynolds, who wrote Cry For War, the story of Susan and Michael Carson, the most comprehensive source on this case. I also don't know what the D. Richard's middle name stands for but yes naturally I will assume it stands for Dick because there needs to be someone named Dick Dick Reynolds out there in the universe. Someone used to being called Double D or Double Dick. And Double Dick and other sources state that Susan lived in the Scottsdale area of Arizona and enjoyed a laid-back lifestyle thanks to some supposed trust fund she had.

Trust fund that clearly fucking ran out as you'll see by the time her and Michael go on the run. She definitely did live in Scottsdale for a while. That's where Michael met her. Speaking of Michael, let's meet him now. His life pre-partnership with Susan, also mysterious, but we know a bit more. Michael was born James Clifford Carson, November 28th, 1950. He grew up in both Tulsa, Oklahoma,

and Montgomery County, Kansas. He had a brother and sister, but we do not know their names. So let us assume he murdered them. Also don't know the names of his parents. Let's assume they're a witch and a warlock duo who live in a dimension parallel to this one and his later witch hatred comes from childhood abandonment issues. According to the Petaluma Argus Courier,

a California newspaper, Michael's dad was the oil price control officer under US Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Carter. Sounds like a job given to someone with some serious oil connections and therefore some serious money. Double Dick writes that the Carson family historically lived near the south eastern corner of Kansas near the Oklahoma border, an area called Bloody Kansas during the Civil War. The Carson's on his father's side were gun fighters. Michael's great-great-grandpa was the sheriff of the first sheriff of Montgomery County and his great-grandpa was the second and then his grandpa was an oil field worker who killed a man in a gunfight. Killing

was in his witch-hunting blood. Before he moved to Washington DC, Michael's dad was an executive at a Tulsa based oil company. Michael claims to be Scottish American and Jewish on his mother's side also claims he is 132nd Seneca, Native American. Michael has said he is very strongly connected to this very thin slice of his heritage because of his love for nature. For most of his life, he believed that bears were his totem animal, a sacred symbol that traditionally represents a group of people. And that's why he assumed the fake last name of Bear as an adult. Michael Bear Carson.

Yeah, totally, totally. I guess he kind of went by Michael Bear, actually. Uh, yeah, totally. Totally. I guess he kind of went by Michael Bayer, actually. What he's listed oftentimes is Michael Bayer Carson. You gotta represent that one thirty second slice. Just over three percent of your ancestry. I should do that. I'm around one percent African American. That's what 23andMe tells me. Following Michael's logic, I should change my last name to... Shaka Zulu. At least hyphenate it. Dan Shaka Zulu Cummins. That fucking has a great ring to it, actually. Come on. As a child, Michael said he struggled in school because he hated sitting still and following

orders. Also, apparently developed a limp and was diagnosed with Perth's disease, a rare bone disease caused by being a silly little bitch who can't figure out how to focus on walking like a man, because he's a fucking crybaby who will never be a feared warrior. Sorry, a little too much of this shockazooloo in me coming out there. That was insensitive. Perseus' disease is a rare bone disease caused by the softening of the pelvis bone joint. Michael was put on bed rest, warned that taking a single wrong step could cause permanent

damage and he said this ended up making him different from his peers, a little bit of social ostracism He ended up spending a lot of time alone reading books and because you read so much he became a very intellectual child This is him talking about himself I don't I don't see him as being that intellectual but maybe and in an atheist and somehow all that book learning led him to Starting to hate the fact that he was half Jewish. So it sounds like he's reading the wrong books. Maybe he should have read less Mein Kampf, more Shakespeare or something. By the time his little crybaby paper mache hips healed up and

he could go back out into society, he was calling himself a Marxist. It was a shock to his conservative community. At the age of 16 in 1966, Michael said he joined students for a Democratic Society. This organization became known for activism against the Vietnam War. There were a lot of Vietnam protests going on when Michael was a teenager and a young man. There was a height of the hippie era, peak counterculture, Michael was fast into bites. Like a whole bunch of kids in America, he pissed off his parents by smoking pot and

participated in anti-war protests. He admired Che Guevara, the famous revolutionary who worked with Fidel Castro to overthrow Cuba's government amongst other things. Talked about that and that Fidel Castro suck. As an undergrad, Michael studied history and religion at the University of Iowa. He was active in Bobby Kennedy's presidential campaign in 1968, which would have coincided with his freshman year of college. That lucky fuck started going to college in 1968 when there were good clean drugs, not laced with fentanyl, not a bunch of other dangerous opioids

floating around out there. So many gorgeous, long, luscious, hair-having, flower-power, free-loving hippies and tight bell bottoms or sundresses experimenting with their sexuality and drugs and listening to some of the best music ever made on vinyl. There was no 24-hour news cycle, no trash reality TV. People were living in the moment instead of thinking about the selfie they need to take to show their friends and get some likes later. Sounds fucking incredible.

There were a lot of other problems I know though. I'm romanticizing. I'm sure the late 1960s early 70s were not as cool as I make them out to be. Or maybe they were. But that's probably just because maybe they would maybe they were. But that's probably just because maybe they would be for me but that's probably just because I'm a straight white dude. Damn you awareness of history why do you haunt me? I know too much. I've ruined my own romanticism. Anyway Michael graduated from the University of Iowa with honors around 1972 with a degree in something. Then he applied for a job with the U.S. State Department. Said he scored in the top 10th

percentile on the civil service exam. Most of this info comes from prison interviews with Michael, and I guess he didn't say what his degree was in. During his job interview for the State Department, he may have been a little too passionate about his anti-communist sentiments. He was a Marxist no more, which is why he felt he now didn't get the job. Okay. Michael met his wife, Lynn, in college college and they got married his sophomore year.

Their only daughter Jennifer, who goes by Jen, will be born around 1974. After graduation, the young couple moved to South Carolina where they both attended grad school at the University of South Carolina. Lynn became a teacher. Double Dick Reynolds wrote that they moved to participate in a federally funded program now to teach reading and writing to children from low income families. It's kind of hinted that they both were teachers for a little while, but I'm not positive about Michael. It's not said explicitly. The weather in the South flared up Michael's issues with his leg and Michael's college

friend Brian, who was living in Phoenix, wrote him a letter suggesting the dry desert heat might help. Told Michael that if he was willing to cut his hair, he could get him a job at the dry desert heat might help. Told Michael that if he was willing to cut his hair he could get him a job at the Phoenix Biltmore Hotel. So Michael, Lynn and their daughter Jen, born in, excuse me, already said when she was born, now they head west. Lynn continued working as a teacher in Arizona. Jen would say that Michael was mostly a stay-at-home dad. What grad degree did that fucker get? No sources mentioned what he got. I'm not sure, uh, which I knew. His gig at the Biltmore Hotel doesn't last long.

At some point in the mid-70s in Arizona he stopped working. Also smoked semescaline, the psychedelic drug derived typically from the peyote cactus, and he had himself a profound religious experience that changed his life. From this point on he sees God in all things. And I'm not totally surprised, right? I've had what I consider spiritual experiences on psychedelics here and there over the past several years. For me, they're not like, you know, hugely life-changing. Important, but not life-changing. Not aligned with the religion either. Whether the experience is interpreted as being spiritual or specifically religious, I guess it probably depends on your current beliefs when you go into the trip,

your spiritual predispositions. Well, now Michael starts selling weed. That's a side hustle. It's this interesting thing with him. He gets really into drugs and really into religion. Not a pairing you see often. He starts dabbling in more psychedelics, other unnamed drugs, starts to abuse his wife. Marriage clearly not going well now.

Michael will later say that he and his first wife became more like buddies. He said that Lynn was freaked out by how much he changed after their big move to Arizona. Despite the troubled marriage, Michael and his daughter Jen remain close for at least the first couple years of life in Arizona, she will later state. In a 2023 People Magazine interview, Jen said regarding her dad when she was young, my perception then was he was loving. She recalled her dad reading to her, braiding her hair. She described her very early childhood as fun and idyllic, but that her dad Michael changed after he met Susan following his separation from her mom.

Jen said in a different interview that her dad was easily led by whoever he dated. She said if he had fallen in love with a televangelist he would have become one. If she had joined ISIS he would have joined. He was that much of a follower. He was drawn to extremists, people he found really exciting. And in 1977 he would meet someone very extreme. So yeah, so Jen's an idyllic child as I doubt one that she even remembers. Probably one just told her by her mom since she was, you know, three, maybe four years old when her dad met Susan. Michael met his soulmate at a party on the outskirts of Phoenix, Thanksgiving Day, 1977. Michael was recently separated from his wife, Lynn. They'll eventually get divorced.

Michael was supposed to be spending time at the party with his date for the night, a woman named June. Susan also came to the party with a date, which was Michael's friend, Brian. Brian had been talking to Michael about this quote, brilliant woman named Susan. He had been dating for weeks and now Michael finally meets her at the party. And Michael said later he could tell Susan was going to change his life the second he saw her just immediately and she will say the same about him. Instant, powerful attraction. Susan's life was already changing a lot around the time she met Michael. She was 35 and as mentioned her kids were now grown and she had been separated from her husband Leland for about eight years.

Young mom. Cannot imagine both my kids already being grown by the age of 35. Susan lived in a townhouse in Scottsdale. She worked for a couple of hours a day, selling ad space for her ex-husband's business magazines. In the afternoon, she played tennis at the Scottsdale Country Club, and according to Double Dick Reynolds,

quote, in the evenings, she played with her child lovers that she selected amongst her 18 year old son's circle of friends. So super cool stable mom. I'm sure that was very fun for her son. Hey you want to come over to the house? Uh yeah we can smoke some weed, listen to some Pink Floyd, and if you play your cards right you can probably fuck my mom. Outside of fucking her son's friends, Susan didn't have much of a relationship with her kids. She'd later say they had gone to the other side, meaning to her ex-husband. And shortly after she hooks up with Michael, she'll completely check out as a parent.

I'm sure fucking her son's friends had nothing to do with the strain on her relationship with them, by the way. Imagine having to deal with one of your parents literally fucking your friends. Call me a prude if you want, but I don't think that's a good idea. Call me crazy. But if you want to be a decent parent, maybe don't fuck your kid's friends. Even if they're super hot and good at keeping secrets. Just get a lifelike sex doll custom ordered to look like your kid's friend and dress it up in some of their clothes.

And when you're not using it, you know, place it as a centerpiece of an altar you've made to worship said friend, complete with a lot of pictures of that friend, a little lock of their hair, a piece of paper where you've written all kind of sexual fantasies you like to involve them in, and then be sure to lock your altar up, you know, whenever you're not home like a good parent. Or don't do that either. That might actually be a lot creepier than just sleeping with your kid's friend. Anyway, Susan had been struggling with mental health issues for a long time before she met Michael. While never diagnosed, I would guess she was schizophrenic, or that she suffered from something equally serious and dangerous when not properly treated. At one point, her family, concerned about her well-being, did supposedly have an intervention with her, set her up with a psychiatrist who did prescribe her, quote, mood pills.

It does not seem she took whatever medication she was prescribed for very long though. And why would she? Susan didn't think she was mentally ill. She thought she knew the real truth about what was going on in her mind. She believed she could look straight through people and see in an instant what was real and what was not. That she was psychic. That's why people were freaked out by her. It was because she told them what they didn't want to hear. These powerful truths. Her powers frightened her enemies is what she thought. Totally. If people are consistently weirded the fuck out by you, it's definitely not your fault. It's definitely literally never because something's wrong with you. No, how could it be? I mean, you're you. You're great. It's always because others are frightened by your powers.

Susan later said she didn't fully realize she was a mystic till she met Michael. Before then, she just thought she was merely a clairvoyant. Just someone with the supernatural ability to perceive events in the future or beyond normal sensory contact. That's all. Oh, and a minor detail. Before Michael, she also thought for a while that she was a witch possessed by the devil. So she's again, she's very stable. Good thing she met Michael and was able to switch from being a satanic witch to a mystic witch hunter. Can't believe she was a clairvoyant satanic witch for God knows how long and just didn't even know. Right? How many of us right now might be clairvoyant satanic witches?

That's probably why I enjoy writing horror stories so much or sharing dark paranormal terror over on Scared to Death, because I am and have been for many years a clairvoyant satanic witches. That's probably why I enjoy writing horror stories so much, or sharing dark paranormal terror over unscared to death, because I am and have been for many years a clairvoyant satanic witch. One evening before meeting Michael, Susan took a huge hallucinogenic, or a huge dose of hallucinogenic magic mushrooms. And she spent the entire night writing poems and painting red triangles all over the walls of her house.

Oh, fuck yeah. She sobered up in the morning, she saw that the art was signed by Susan with a Z. S-U-Z-A-N. Not S-U-S-A-N, as her name was really spelled. And now because she was mentally ill on top of being somebody who had just tripped, she honestly wondered, who is Susan? Who is Susan with a Z? It just took one letter, one different letter,

to send her brain into some kind of identity crisis. She then realized after running her fingers over her head and finding the soft spot at the top of her skull that she was Susan now with a Z, a witch, and the devil was all around her. Susan with a Z ran to her kid's room started screaming, I've seen the devil. I've seen the darkness. Her kids cried that she was insane and pleaded with her to please see her psychiatrist again. And maybe they also begged her to stop fucking their friends. Not sure. Susan agreed to see a psychiatrist, was dedicated to go into her therapy appointments, taking some sort of medication for a little while until her kids then moved in with her dad and she snapped.

Taking some sort of medication for a little while until her kids then moved in with her dad and she snapped The day her kids moved out. She removed her radio TV and all the rest of her electronic appliances She threw away all that shit started illuminating her home by candlelight as one does when they are not mentally ill at all And are in fact a satanic devil which they can see into the future Also started to really focus on attracting her soulmate now. And maybe this is when she started fucking her son's friends. I don't know. You know she's just doing some soul searching, some soulmate searching. And you know what to be fair to Susan there isn't a rule that I'm aware of that says your soulmate

can't be one of your son's friends. After she separated from Leland, Susan later would say that she knew her true soulmate was still out there. She believed she had already met this person a thousand years earlier in another life and she would know him when she found him. I love it. I love when people say shit like they met you know their soulmate already a thousand years ago. They never say like more specific numbers like 656 years ago or 342 years ago. No, always like a hundred or a thousand or ten thousand. You know, nice round numbers. I certainly don't know if reincarnation is possible

or not. You know, maybe it is. But the way people often talk about it makes it sound like nothing more than some wackadoodles living in imagination land. Like Susan, Michael believed in reincarnation. He believed he had lived as a samurai warrior in 15th century Japan totally Also as a peasant in the Swiss Alps in the 18th century And he was a foot soldier in medieval medieval England thousand years ago, and that's where he met and fell in love with Susan Also believed he previously was a servant to the Prophet Muhammad. And you know what? I do find his take a bit refreshing I like that he doesn't say that he was Prophet Muhammad Or that he was only like a cool-ass samurai. No, he was a common soldier, peasant, an assistant

Let's now shift focus back to that Thanksgiving Day party where the not at all mentally ill Uh-uh, not even a tiny bit Susan meets not at all highly impressionable Is seeing God everywhere after going on a fucking mescaline spirit quest, Michael Susan dropped acid for the first time the day these two met, which may have strongly influenced some of the following events. Man, last time I dropped acid, I just thought King Gizzard's laser light show at the concert at the Gorge in Washington was super cool, like extra cool, you know. Maybe she had better acid than me. Maybe she took a lot more. I took quite a bit. I don't know. Who knows?

Susan saw James Carson, aka Michael Michael right when she entered the house And she knew it was the man that she had been waiting for and it wasn't the acid talking. Uh, for sure not She immediately thought that not only was he her cellmate, but that he should be called Michael Yeah, I bet she was thinking all kinds of shit Right. She's mentally ill. She's tripping balls I truly thought that our campsite, after the King Gizzard concert,

was in some sort of magical safari. I was a little bit worried that our tent might not be strong enough to keep tigers out. I bet Susan thought James looked super cool. I mean, I thought Lindsay was an actual princess for a while at the concert. You know, mystically beautiful, like an elf or something. I saw beams of light radiating out from her.

And she is beautiful, but sadly she's not an elf. And her face, when I'm sober, doesn't ever shoot out light beams. It's kind of a bummer. Acid makes you think all kinds of crazy shit, right? That's why, for those of us with, you know, brain chemistry that allows us to do it and not completely fuck our lives up, it's so damn fun. Instead of speaking to James aka Michael right away, you know the party's at his house I should add, Susan approaches his cat,

picks it up and says, my cats are much heavier and I have a much nicer house. Michael was surprised by her statement because it was a fucking weird thing to say. Of course it was. She's not in her right mind. And then he says, fine why don't we go over there? Okay that says a lot about him that he would hear this lady say, my catch much heavier. I have a much nicer house and think I like this lady. So Susan and Michael, they take one car and their dates, June and Brian, well, they take another car. Susan's townhouse in Scottsdale. And once there, Susan and Michael abandon their dates and Susan leads Michael into her bedroom where they remain for hours straight.

Probably fucking each other's brains out. While the dates they brought to the party are in the next room. Not awkward even a little bit. Hey guys, guys, are you okay in there? Sounds like you're breathing heavy. You guys fighting? Why is the door locked? What's going on with our party now? Following morning, Susan and Michael are still at her house. Their dates have obviously left, and I imagine probably never speak to them again. Susan has already decided that she and Michael are gonna get married. When she first dropped acid, she was going on a date with a guy named Brian to a party. When she came down from her trip, about 12 hours later, she was ready to marry a guy she met at a party that she'd already fucked.

And she changed his name to Michael. What a night! That's a party. Michael moved in with Susan! That's a party. Michael moved in with Susan just a few days later. He was fascinated by her strange ways, which again says a lot about him. A few days after they met she asked him if Michael was his real name, and he told her no, it's actually James. It's James Clifford. And Susan said, that's not your true name. It's Michael. Name of an angel in the Bible. And he was like, cool. He's accepted it. And then he added Bear as a new last name. James is fucking dead.

He's Michael Bear, god damn it. And now these two incredibly stable individuals start to push each other into new levels of insanity. But before we talk about that, time for today's first of two Mitch Show sponsor breaks. Thanks for listening to those ads. If you don't want to hear more, get the entire catalog ad free. And more stuff. I sent them to be a spacer on Patreon for five bucks a month. And now let's talk about Michael and Susan's individual insanities merging to create a whole new kind of crazy.

Pretty early in their relationship, Susan told Michael she didn't believe in God anymore. kind of crazy. Pretty early in their relationship, Susan told Michael she didn't believe in God anymore. Michael, who recently began to identify as a Christian, told her that Jesus was not the actual Son of God, but rather a very enlightened person and that's why he was killed. Well, Susan had never heard that take before and now she felt like, okay, I can relate to Jesus and she's like, okay, I will be Christian. Michael also told her that some visions she had told him that she had been having, visions for sure, definitely not brought on by hallucinogens or mental illness, were not demonic as Susan had been fearing. Instead, they were religious experiences

given to her by God. He told her that she was a yogi and she had the gift of spiritual sight. Michael called the soft spot she had found on her skull when she was high in shrooms before her chakra. A sign that she was chosen to receive messages from God. Feels like both these people know just enough about a variety of religious belief systems to be dangerous. Just mixing all kinds of shit together with, I imagine, a lot of psychedelics still. I doubt Susan stopped dropping acid after her first time, you know, being so life-altering. And these two were

definitely doing shrooms often now. Now Michael asked Susan to tell him about the future of the world and Susan apparently told him quote, there's going to be a war and we're going to be in the middle of it somewhere in Northern California along the Oregon border. I'm going to be the general and I'm going to tell you what to do. I imagine they fucked hard directly after that revelation. I'm going to be the general and you're going to do what I tell you and right now the general needs her pussy licked. So get over here soldier General is gonna sit on your face and there is no safe word you breathe again when the general comes Eventually Michael introduced his daughter Jen to this fucking maniac Jen later told people in a 2023 at People magazine in a 2023 interview

Around that time. I have a lot of memories of him unraveling instead of him being a loving father She knew Michael started to ignore acting differently around Susan. Susan was a dominant one of the relationship according to Jen Hell, yeah, she was she's a fucking general Gentile Susan was quote the wicked witch Jen who has done numerous interviews with people with multiple excuse me news outlets in recent years Said she was physically and emotionally abused by Susan and that because of the abuse she still suffers from nightmares PTSD and depression. She said Susan's house made her feel very uncomfortable.

Susan had almost no furniture, literally just a waterbed. That was it. But well over a hundred potted plants. Which made Jen feel like she was living in a haunted forest from The Wizard of Oz. That is fucking weird. Over a hundred potted plants? Sounds like she and Bob from Bob's bountiful Bonsai Fruit.biz would have gotten along great. Her townhouse would have been the perfect place for him to have his Bonsai orchard. Jen said that Susan and Michael were often sleeping comfortably, excuse me, they were comfortably, but also completely naked on the waterbed and neglecting to take care of Jen on any level, oftentimes not even feeding her. Jen said Susan also abused her.

Jen recalled, I've had glimpses of memories my whole life of her pushing me under bathwater like holding me under and I couldn't breathe. I'm in this house of whores. She's not feeding me. She's telling me I'm the devil. I'm going to hell. I deserve to die. Jen's once dialed the phone operator, asked for her mother, but she didn't know her mom's number and couldn't get connected.

Another time she tried to escape out the front door, but couldn't reach the deadbolt on yet another occasion. She had to get on a ladder to get to the cabinets so she could try to find something to eat. She said she often struggled to wake Michael and Susan up who were often passed out from doing drugs. She tried to tell her mother what was happening, but she was too young, didn't know how to properly communicate what was going on. But then finally after one visit Jen told her mom that Susan had hurt her. Jen said she had asked Susan to rub her back and Susan proceeded to scratch her so hard with her fingernails she left wounds on her back. Jennifer told Crime Watch Daily,

I had asked her to rub my back before I went to bed and she scratched my back and said she was going to get the demon out of me. But more frightening to me than the injury was what she was saying. Stuff like you can fool your father, but I know that you're the devil and I'm going to get this demon out of you. Yee! Jen was only around four or five years old when that happened. After this, Lynn promised Jen that she would never have to see Susan again. Now Lynn realized that Michael and Susan weren't just shitty neglectful parents. They were batshit crazy and dangerous. Yeah, anytime a parent starts talking about the devil being in a little kid, that person's a lunatic. More than a little mentally unstable.

Lynn started to fear that Michael and Susan were going to try and kill her and abduct Jen before fleeing the country and later killing her as well. She and Jen moved and would remain on the run for the next five years cutting off contact with any mutual friends Lynn had ever had with Michael and bouncing from place to place. You might be wondering what Michael's other family members thought of Susan. Well they fucking loved her. They immediately recognized her authority as the general and they begged her to command them. To let them be members of her elite team of special forces Once the war broke out somewhere in the northern California along the Oregon border

Who they'd be fighting doesn't matter witches, okay That of course is not true. No, they thought she was Looney Tunes like any rational mentally stable person would For the first Christmas Michael and Susan visited his sister in Chicago at At one point, his mother pulled him aside and whispered, "'Darling, isn't Susan just a little strange?' "'More than a little, Mama. More than a little.'" On Christmas Eve, his family walked into the bathroom, found Susan and Michael meditating naked together in the bathtub.

They didn't even bother to lock the door, despite staying with Michael's sister and the rest of the family being around. That's incredible. "'Get your clothes off, maggot! Get in here! Stare at the General's tits! Focus on breathing deeply, calmly. Ma'am, yes ma'am! Anything you say, General! After that, Michael's sister pulled him aside, told him essentially that Susan was no longer welcome in her house. And then they both packed up and left. And on their way out, Michael's mother grabbed him, pleaded with her son to stay, but he pushed her out of the way a little too hard, sent his mom tumbling to the floor in front

of the rest of the family. So much drama. And that was that. Michael had already chosen Susan over his daughter, and now he had chosen her over the rest of his family. And he will slowly descend further and further into madness with his insane acid queen. One morning in April of 1978, Susan was driving to Safeway. The inside of her car got filled up with bright blue laser beams.

So that's pretty cool. I mean, I mean, it for sure didn't do that. But that's what she said later in a prison interview. She said she heard while all the blue laser beams are bouncing around her vehicle, a voice say, this is God. Close your eyes and I'll steer your car. I mean, good thing her schizophrenia cleared itself up. She's thinking clearly now. Susan said she obeyed the voice and remarkably found herself parked safely behind Safeway. Said that her car was filled with the Spirit of God for about an hour. An hour? God, what do they talk about? Strangely, she never said.

You know what? We non-enlightened folk probably just wouldn't get it. I mean, you would think that if God talked to you for an hour, he'd tell you some important shit. I don't know. What do I know? I'm just some dumb fuck, closed-minded heathen, who doubts that literally anyone has ever truly received any kind of special, I'm only sharing this with you, message from a deity. When Susan returned home, she drew herself a bath, and now the Lord appeared before her a second time. God, what a great day. When Susan returned home, she drew herself a bath, and now the Lord appeared before her a second time. God, what a great day. Susan said she kept her eyes closed as God told her she would have a son named Israel.

And God also instructed her to always follow your husband. Oh, fuck yeah, bro. Why can't God come and tell Lindsay that? I mean, she's open to my suggestions, sure. But she definitely doesn't just obey me all the time, without question, which does frustrate me greatly greatly as many of you know. Starting to understand what Michael saw in Susan. Susan said that God chose to come to her so she could see that he is real. Oh, I'm so jelly. Why doesn't God ever do that for me? When Susan opened her eyes, she claimed she saw God standing before her completely naked. What? She said he had quote the most beautiful male body Susan had ever

seen. Oh man I bet he was built like a young Arnold Schwarzenegger with a cock like John Holmes and a face like Idris Elba. I mean right? I mean that's what you were thinking right? Everyone's pictured in his wiener weren't they? After this experience Susan said she believed that her psychic powers increased, which makes sense. She decided now that she needed to sell her home and belongings. All those plants, the waterbed they had to go. She and Micah would travel to Europe, then Israel, where she would have her special godchild named Israel. Are you loving this story? I'm loving it so much. It's like a whack-a-doodle-da-week. Old segment I used to do on the Secret South on Patreon, combined with a serial killer episode, combined with a cult episode. I find this all hilariously fascinating.

At some point around this time, Susan told Michael to get rid of his glasses, his eyeglasses, because they were interfering with his ability to see with his third eye, which is pretty cool, because Michael's vision was 2200. Without glasses, he could not read street signs from 10 feet away. But still he stops wearing his glasses most of the time and trying to, you know, see with his third eye primarily. In the spring of 1978, Susan and Michael finish selling all their belongings and they fly to London. After this they'll travel to Spain, France, the Netherlands, Greece, India, and then Israel. June 21st, 1978, Susan and Michael get married in their London hotel room.

Kind of. Not a legal marriage. They just hold their own private, just the two of them, wackadoodle ceremony on the eve of the summer solstice, which they believe was the most magical night of the year. While in England, Susan and Michael also became deadheads. Fans of the Grateful Dead. I told you they weren't done with acid. This phase will last for about two years

before they come to believe that lead singer Jerry Garcia is a disciple of Satan. God damn it, Jerry! That seemingly loving community you built was a sham. You were noodling away on those jam band tracks for the devil the whole time. You really were a friend of the devil. That wasn't just the name of one of your favorite, my favorite songs of yours. I actually do love that song. I know this has nothing to do with this episode but I just I just want you to hear a little bit. I said I'm running but I take my time A friend of the devil is a friend of mine I get home before daylight I just might get some sleep tonight Oh, it's such a good one! Ah, the dead. Bummed I never saw them alive.

I didn't understand how beautiful their community was until it was too late. Saw a dead and co show. That one is still pretty damn good. Back to the story,. Unfortunately the European summer Susan and Michael and vision was not the dream vacation they'd hoped for because Susan felt like she was quote pursued by darkness No, actually better pursued by the darkness the entire trip and that you know what that sucks There is nothing worse than trying to have a fun vacation and you just get you just get pursued by the darkness the whole time Huh? trying to have a fun vacation and you just get you just get pursued by the darkness the whole time. Susan did find out she's pregnant though just like God

told her and she wanted to go to Israel to have the baby and become citizens. When they arrived in Jerusalem Susan was sick with dysentery she caught in India. After a week of bed rest she recovered and then they went to the Dome of the Rock where the Prophet Muhammad ascended to heaven per the beliefs of Islam. Susan pointed out a spot where she said their son Israel would be born. But then their application for citizenship was denied and right after that Susan miscarried and they returned to America. No! Oh the Lord give us and the Lord take us away. Oh you perfect male body lord why did you and your hard cock do that? After losing the pregnancy, Susan decided she wanted to return to Arizona. Why did I add that he had a boner? That was not necessary.

Then just two days after they returned from Europe, Susan was arrested for public nudity and marijuana possession. She'd gone outside naked to hang some laundry on the clothesline and one of the neighbors complained. What a prude. Why complain when you could just stand in the window and beat off, right? I mean that's what most people do, don't they? they no when the police arrived they found a quarter ounce of marijuana in her possession which was enough for a felony charge under Arizona law the police didn't have a warrant though so the felony drug charge was dropped Susan pleaded guilty to public nudity and received six months probation

for this Susan was a comparatively law-abiding person but now feeling like she had been wrongfully prosecuted for showing her titties she promised that she would never pay taxes again and we all know that when people do that things just really work out for them. If there's one thing the government is super chill about it's about not paying taxes. Susan and Michael fled to Portland, Oregon after her legal troubles. They checked into a hotel using the names David and Denise Levine. They enjoyed the city and they will return several times in the coming years. Susan Michael also got rid of their IDs around this time. Their driver's licenses got rid of their

credit cards, their Social Security cards. They now believe that people who had credit cards and Social Security cards had the mark of the beast upon them. Uh-huh, totally. I can vouch for that. I am so beasted up it's not even funny. Between my driver's license, passport, my Costco card, several credit cards, my triple play card so I can get points playing video games and mini golf, I'm beasted up to the ceiling. Meanwhile, Michael's anti-government sentiments are also becoming stronger and stronger under the General's prudent guidance You now believe Ronald Reagan was the country's leading witch. Oh fuck He also thought evil historical figures like Hitler witches so many witches Salem had the right idea a couple centuries ago. They just didn't take it far enough didn't hang enough of them 1979 Michael purchased a copy of the Quran at a bookstore with cash Not with a credit card like some dirty beast witch.

As written by journalist Richard D. Reynolds, double dick, reading through the Quran, Michael immediately identified with the uncompromising monotheism and discipline of Islam. Michael also felt inspired by the concept of Jihad or a holy war. Of course he did. He believed that he and Susan had been persecuted while identifying as passive as Christians and now he wanted revenge upon his enemies. Uncle Sam, look at you. Especially Ronald Reagan. He and Susan now converted to Islam because even though she is the general, she also has to obey him at all times. Very confusing power dynamics between these two. And now these two dipshits start to call themselves Islamic or Muslim assassins. And they decide they're gonna target anyone they believe is an enemy of God, which is mostly witches and homosexuals. But also people get abortions and a lot of minorities. Did I mention they're very racist? They are. If these two had been free in recent years, I could absolutely see them being a major part of the QAnon crowd.

Especially when those people storm the Capitol, right? They'll be right up their alley. They would have showed up in war paint wearing some funny fucking hat Viking horns You know flag draped around him. Whatever It would been some of the first to push past police officers The Quran says God will not destroy society without sending the messenger and Michael now believes he is one of Allah's death angels So cool. He and Susan got their they're special. True power couple. Right up there with the best, Jay Z and Beyonce, Emily Blunt, John Krasinski, Corey Feldman, whoever he's dating, Pat Sajak and the demon Baphomet, Susan and Michael Bayer.

Michael believed he was supposed to warn people to change their ways before the Earth was destroyed. He and Susan were convinced that a nuclear holocaust was imminent and that a third of the human population was about to die. After the carnage, the earth would then enter the Aquarian Age, also known as Paradise on Earth. Love that they are still combining the beliefs of numerous religions and spiritual belief systems into their brand of crazy. A little new age, a little fucking Islamic, a little Christian, sure why not. They wanted Susan's ex-husband Leland to be their first victim because he was a witch. But they just never had the opportunity to kill him. What's a bummer. After leaving Portland, Susan and Michael, who were still devoted dead heads at this point, also become environmentalists of a sort.

They don't eat animal or dairy products for a little while. However, there will be several times, actually for a couple years. However, there will be several times when they break their veganism because they're on the verge of starvation. While at a Grateful Dead concert, they learned about an apple orchard in California's Santa Cruz Mountains not far from San Francisco, which is cool, and they decided to just go there. Just live off the land. Just live off someone else's land. Someone who did not know that these two dipshits were going to be squatting there. What could go wrong with that plan? And they also took their new 19 year old follower Denise with him. Oh, yeah. No, they've picked up a follower

Somebody they met at a Grateful Dead concert in Seattle, of course According to Susan and Michael while at the orchard. They also met a man named Merlin Uh-huh a lot of characters in this story and Merlin claimed to be a backstage member of the Grateful Dead According to journalist Double-Dick a lot of deadheads believed that this Merlin was an ancient hippie alchemist who manufactured a bunch of legendarily good LSD in the 60s. But at this point, Susan and Michael had just decided to no longer be deadheads, unfortunately for fucking Merlin, because they disliked how followers emphasized Jerry Garcia over God and they heard rumors about occult practices within the band. They heard that the Grateful Dead was a bunch of

fucking witches. I mean just listen to them! And if that's not witch music, what is? Listen to them picking that fucking witch guitar. Uh-uh, uh-uh, Jerry. Stop, cast your spell on me! Still, they shared a joint with Merlin, because you know, a friend with weed is a friend indeed. And, uh, then he offered them mescaline. Oh man, I like Merlin. I need a Merlin in my life. This guy sounds, this guy sounds great.

Uh, Susan didn't want to do the mescaline, because she thought it was evil. But she did take some eventually, because, you know, drugs. They're fun. Sometimes. But don't fucking do them if you're not supposed to. But then Susan got really angry when she noticed that Merlin was not high and she had to kick him out of Eden. By Eden, I mean the apple orchard they were squatting in.

Also he may have very well been super high and she just didn't realize that because she was also very high and mentally ill and not medicated. Well, their follower Denise also took mescaline and got very very high. So high, she was still high the next day and she was confused. And she was confused and upset and she felt like she was impure and she was no longer worthy of living in the Eden orchard. So she left and I hope she's doing okay. And I hope if you have a mom or a grandma named Denise, you ask her if she ever smoked too much mescaline in an apple orchard where she was hanging out with a couple of witch obsessed serial killers she had met at a Grateful Dead concert. Right after Denise left,

some officials at the California State Department of Agriculture found evidence of a Mediterranean fruit fly infestation in the apple orchard. And a week later helicopters flew over and dusted the orchard with a bunch of insecticide and Susan and Michael had to flee. Now things shift again, spiritually speaking for Michael and Susan. They started comparing themselves to Adam and Eve, ate the forbidden apple and were expelled from paradise. A few days later they end up in San Francisco and are reunited with an acquaintance of theirs named Karen Barnes. They had met Karen passing through San Francisco once before following the dead at, uh, not making

this up, at a witches party and we'll get to that party soon. For now, Susan and Michael didn't plan on staying in San Francisco very long. They wanted to head north and sell some weed in Humble County, but now Mescaline, because Mescaline's of the devil, but weed's kosher. Weed is definitely kosher with Jesus or Muhammad or Yahweh or whoever they're praying to these days. They invited Karen to go sell some weed with them, but she said, no, I got to head to Hawaii. And now let's meet Karen. She will feature prominently in this story. But first time for today's second of two mid-show sponsor breaks. Thank you for listening to those sponsors. And now let's meet the woman about to entangle her life with the lives of Michael and Susan.

Karen Barnes. Karen Barnes born on February 13th, 1958. She was born just a single minute before midnight. So she normally celebrated her birthday on Valentine's Day, February 14th. Grew up on a farm in Jonesboro, Georgia, now a suburb of Atlanta. Karen believed that she was a psychic and so did her family. Karen's mom Barbara Miller later told the San Francisco Examiner she could dream something and it happened. It never failed. Never? It never failed? I'm gonna call bullshit on that. What if she had one of those weird ass dreams that we all have where they just make no sense, right? Where you're just like, you know, one second you're dating your high school Spanish teacher but then

you're also fighting in a war but then you're still married to your wife in the next moment, and you're also having trouble flying your plane to work because there's not enough candy in your Halloween bag. And then your feet are too big. And then your body and your teeth, your body starts to like wobble and your teeth are too loose in their sockets. And you're worried about that. But you're also trying to learn karate. Did dreams like that come true for Karen Barb? I doubt it. At the age of 17, Karen had been hired to be an extra for the movie Smokey and the Bandit, classic movie. Much of the movie was filmed around Jonesboro and that experience gave her a taste for fame. When she turned 18, she sold her car, hopped on a bus to Hollywood to make it

as a big star showbiz even though she had never taken any acting classes or ever studied theater. Her acting career did not pan out for some reason so she moved to Santa Barbara, worked as a housekeeper at Jane Fonda's ranch, and there a roommate talked her into visiting San Francisco which Karen's mother thought marked a downward spiral in her life. She changed the spelling of her name from K-A-R-E-N to K-E-R-Y-N. A lot of people changed their names in this episode. And she started hanging out with, quote, dope dealers, punk rockers, drifters, and no goods. So she was having a great time in San Francisco in the 70s.

But then one day Karen hitchhiked with a truck driver who fell asleep at the wheel and drove off the highway near Elko, Nevada. Serial killer Dick Byrd's old old stomping grounds if you recall. She was thrown out of the cab and an exhaust pipe hit her and it broke her pelvis. Karen went back home to Georgia to recover and her mom took her to a lawyer who helped her file a negligence suit. But then Karen decided she didn't want to go through with that and settled out of court for $10,000. And then used that money to head back to San Francisco and fucking party

woohoo not long after that Michael and Susan met Karen at a that witches party I mentioned earlier witches party in the hate ashbury district aka America's hippie mecca they just arrived in San Francisco from Portland from a Grateful Dead concert and heard there was uh or and for another Grateful Dead concert in San Francisco and heard there was free food for another Grateful Dead concert in San Francisco, and heard there was free food at this party. And Michael was also looking for some acid because they ran out. Mescaline? Bad. Acid? Still in. Also still eating magic mushrooms, whenever they can get a hold of them. Susan saw Karen. She could tell she was an actual witch right away.

She felt like they needed to leave the party. It was dangerous with all the witches around. Loved that they went to a so-called witch's party, but then got weirded out running into someone they thought was a witch. Also, what is a witch's party? I picture it as a party where a lot of women wear sexy witch costumes with fishnet stockings and heels and cleavage, revillian tops. Kind of like the witch's costumes that they sell at those spirit Halloween stores. Hail, Lucifina. And I imagine a lot of good drugs. Now cutting back, sounds like a great party. Now cutting back to the present in this timeline.

Susan and Michael are back in Haight-Ashbury because they have nowhere else to live after they fled the orchard. They're staying with friends, couple name Susan and Dave when Karen comes to visit. Two Susans. Our Susan learned that Karen shared her maiden name and she thought that was a sign that Karen would replace their disciple Denise. Even though previously she was terrified of Karen because she thought she was a witch and now she changes her mind.

Karen's best friend Nina would later say she never figured out if Karen was a witch or not for reals. A lot of witch talk in this episode. A lot of people very concerned about witches. That you know what? That is one thing I've never worried about. Witches. I have never once woken up in a cold sweat just to go, Oh, witches! Gotta watch out! Gotta watch out for all the witches! Nina sometimes caught her looking through occult books that belonged to her dad who was, I guess, a high priest in the Church of Satan. Karen once told Nina that she felt a knife hanging above her as if someone was going to stab her at any moment. I feel like Karen was also doing a lot of drugs.

Pretty soon Karen started smoking pot with Susan and Michael and listening to them talk about the impending apocalypse and all the witches are gonna have to fight. Another one of Karen's friends Lillian was around for this and she was worried about Susan. She later recalled how Susan told them she had powerful psychic abilities. Lillian was a registered nurse, had a lot of experience working with patients with mental illness and she thought Susan just right away was schizophrenic for sure. So that's Karen, another very colorful character in this story with some unorthodox beliefs. As mentioned, Michael and Susan did not stay long in San Francisco this trip and Karen also you know was bounced out to Hawaii but then by the end of 1980 Michael and Susan wanted to settle somewhere for the

winter. They returned to San Francisco. They stayed with some friends Randy Jacobson and Marsha Mosco arriving Christmas Eve December 24th 1980 and Karen is now back from Hawaii staying staying with some of her friends, and she reconnects with the couple who are still selling weed. Karen hears they're looking for an apartment. She says she can help. She leaves, returns an hour later,

saying she has found an apartment for the three of them on Trader Street. Around Christmas 1980, Karen called her mom, sounded like she was high. Three weeks later, she called again, said she was gonna get her act together now. Said she'd found a new place to live with two new roommates and they were very religious.

January of 1981 now. Karen moves into a basement apartment at 825 Schrader Street in the Hay Ashbury District of San Francisco with her new roommates, Susan and Michael. And the new living arrangement gets real uncomfortable real quick, of course it does. Susan feels that Karen has powerful energy which frightens her and she's worried that Karen is always reading her mind.

Still she and Michael decided to teach Karen their ways. Interesting. I'm very worried about this powerful witch. Let's teach her everything we know. Susan taught Karen the principles of Islam or at least thought she did. I doubt it. Susan is obviously very mentally unwell. I doubt she was intellectually capable of accurately teaching anything to anybody. I don't think she probably knew much much at all about Islam. Susan told Karen that she could not use electric appliances in the house because they interfered with her meditation. Everyone knows. Come on, wake up Karen. Everyone knows Muslims do not use electricity. Especially Amish Muslims. Which apparently they were. I

know that's not a thing. Instead of moving out Karen becomes entranced by Susan. Starts to imitate her by dressing. Speaking like her. Also starts to talk a lot about assassinating high witch President Reagan. Holy shit these people are so insane. It amazes me that you can be this mentally unstable, but also still manage to get an apartment, pay your bills, and feed yourself. January 10, 1981, the day of Reagan's inauguration. Susan watches as Karen and Michael return to the apartment together laughing and joking, and she realizes Karen is trying to steal her man, and she worries Michael is falling

in love with her. And Susan minds this is because Karen has cast a spell on him. She is a witch after all. And now she is determined to break this witch's spell on her man but she can't do it. Fuck! She can't break the spell and Michael and Karen start to flirt with each other more and more right in front of her. And now Karen feels like her powers are fading while Karen's are growing stronger. Please help, Lucifina! She can't stop Karen alone.

Karen's aura has become so radiant. She continues to attract Michael, and it's like there's nothing that Susan can do to stop it. And now Susan suspects that Karen is literally stealing her energy. She's a fucking psychic vampire witch! One of the most insidious kinds of witches. And then one night, after I imagine they smoked a lot of weed, or maybe shroomed, Michael told Susan privately that he was going to make Karen his second wife. A few nights later, Michael pulls Susan aside again, tells her they're going through with the unofficial marriage soon. And Susan's angry, but she also knows Michael has the right to take a second wife under the rules of their new religion. Michael explains that he felt sorry for Karen and wanted to offer her protection because she had worked so hard to convert to Islam.

Oh yeah, I'm sure that was his primary motivation. Religion. It definitely wasn't wanting to live with two women he was also fucking. No, no, what? His dick had nothing to do with this decision. They now make plans to consummate their marriage at the Point Reyes National Park just north of the city. And they want Susan to come along with them. She could at least have the decency to watch these two fuck and maybe offer a helping hand from time to time like a good obedient subservient wife. January 18th, 1981, the three of them hitchhike to the park and they end up camping in the bluffs. They settle in a

cave for the evening and Michael and Karen are just about to fuck in the cave. Consummate the marriage. He's rock hard. She's dripping wet, right? You get it? Then Susan feels a surge of energy and screams, no! And she rips the covers off of them. And then lightning lights up the sky and the rain starts to pour. That's what she said. And then Susan began sobbing. And she freaked out and she fucking killed the vibe.

And she started throwing sand at Michael and Karen Michael is furious and he takes off. He heads to Santa Cruz. He tells Susan He's not she's not being a good wife and he's never coming back Whoo, I should try that with Lindsay. I should find out how good of a wife. She really is You know, I'm gonna do I'm gonna be friend I'm gonna be friend an attractive young woman and offer for her to move in with us as a platonic roommate at first. Okay? Then I'll tell Lindsay, you know, that she's gonna become my second wife. I'm the man, right? I decide. And the three of us will find a cave or maybe just go to a nice hotel. And Lindsay will have to watch as fuck and that's what I'll know with certainty. If she's a good wife and can stay calm

while I make passionate love to another woman directly in front of her or if she's a shitty wife who just freaks out makes it all about her throw some kind of childish temper tantrums storms off I'm gonna report back how it all works out or you're just gonna hear that I've been murdered and Lindsay's in prison and you'll figure out for yourself how it went. After Michael leaves, Karen tries to comfort Susan, tells her that she never really cared about Michael. All she wanted was to be Susan's servant to take care of her. Susan wasn't ready to let her man leave though. She prayed for Michael's return and he was back by morning. And now these three continue to

live together despite the failed marriage and apparently Michael and Karen don't even get to fuck one time. How anticlimactic. Man, Susan's such a cock block of a wife. Still the trio they manage to soldier on. Now the trio decides to take a trip back east travel to Washington DC. Why? Well, obviously. Because Michael plans to attack the Russian embassy. In retaliation for Russia attacking Afghanistan, of course. Oh, and he and Susan also are going to assassinate Ronald Reagan if the opportunity presents itself. Michael believed that

if God wanted them to do that, they would somehow just magically obtain a rifle. It would just kind of fall into their laps and they would be given the perfect opportunity to shoot him. And one more thing before all that shit, Karen wants to stop by in Georgia and say hi to Vermont. Dorothy Baker receives a call from her daughter Karen on Valentine's Day. Right? The days that Karen celebrates her birthday. Sounded like she was on a payphone inside of some store. Karen said, mama, I have a feeling that I won't live to see 30. What a fun thing for her mom to hear. Dorothy asked her what she meant. Karen said, I just have a funny feeling and when I have funny feelings like this they usually come true. She said she would come home in June but then towards the end of the call said I

don't think I'll ever make it out there. I'm not going to live much longer. Dorothy asked where she was calling from and Karen said I'm in the back of a restaurant don't worry they can't find me back here. She asked who Karen was talking about who the they is but then her daughter changed the subject and then end of the call. God I hope I never get a call like that from one of my kids. The trio left for DC February 17th, 1981, but had trouble hitching rides, which was their primary method of transport. And Susan thought that was a bad omen. At some point

along their journey, Karen brought up the subject of witchcraft. Said she used to be a powerful witch, but no longer practiced. She claimed she could go days without food or sleep and that a high priest in the Church of Satan taught her everything she knew Also talked about her ex-boyfriend a supposed warlock who called himself sundown Yes, Oh Legitimately laughed out loud at a coffee shop working by myself when I first read that Sundown the warlock. I have no idea what this guy looked like and I don't claim to be good at fighting But I am 100% confident I could kick the shit

out of someone who calls himself Sundown and identifies as a warlock. And if I met that person, I'm 100% confident I would want to punch them because they would be insufferably weird. Also, after smoking some weed with Susan and Michael, Karen admitted she was Sundown's spiritual bride. And that pissed Michael off because he believed Karen had essentially just admitted to fucking the devil.

God, what a collection of brilliant minds these three are. Michael and Susan started talking about how they noticed... At some point how they noticed that as they moved further and further away from Karen's home base in San Francisco, her quote, Muslim disguise faded and her powerful aura did as well because her witch powers were weakening. Okay? Then Karen decided she was going to hitchhike back and that she didn't want to go to DC. She didn't want to try to kill Ronald Reagan anymore, which sounds a lot like something a devil witch would say, doesn't it? Susan and Michael tried to talk her

out of it telling her a Muslim woman should never travel alone and risk being defiled by being touched by a man. But Karen insisted on leaving. Then when she left, Michael realized she was full of shit. She lied about her conversion. She was evil. Susan then informed Michael that Karen didn't even really want to be his wife. She just wanted Susan's powers, that she'd cast a love spell on Michael to trick him.

And now Michael is even more furious. And he says that Karen has to die for what she's done These two are truly living in their own world This dynamic duo now felt called back to San Francisco to quote take care of business got some TCB got some witch TCB Then so much is happening while staying at a motel in Oxnard, California where they smoked a fucking ton of weed Susan had a vision of red death. She envisioned her and Michael standing in front of Karen and some of her witch friends. And that was when Susan declared, it is Allah's will that we kill Karen. Also, every time she said Karen's name, she said there was a strike of lightning in its raging storm outside or a

thunderclap. She said both. She went back and forth. And she said that was a sign of God's approval. Anybody else wondering if there was even a storm that night? Or if they just thought there was because they were that high and that crazy? March 7th, 1981, the dead body of 23-year-old Karen Barnes is found in the basement apartment at 825 Schrader Street in the Haight-Ashbury District of San Francisco. The apartment she shared was Michael and Susan. Her body was found by a plumber who was checking the pipes. She was sprawled out on the kitchen floor, partially covered by a quilt, lying in a pool of her own blood, face covered in blood, more blood splattered on the walls.

Her skull had been crushed by a blunt instrument. She had been stabbed 13 times in the face and neck. One of the stab wounds pierced her jugular. There were no signs of sexual assault. Because of the quilt, the police assumed she had been attacked in her sleep. The lead investigator was Detective Carl Klotz, and he noticed that someone had written Susan on the fridge door in Crayon. Karen's landlord told Klotz that he once saw a couple hippies sneaking in and out of the

apartment a few days before. Jody, Karen's friend who lived upstairs, suggested that the police call Randy Jacobson and Marcia Mosco, friends Karen was staying with before she moved to Schrader Street. Randy and Marcia told the detective that the last few months Karen had been living with Susan and Michael. They couldn't remember their last names but described them as transient weed dealers who said they were Muslims and talked a lot about witches. As weird as the Haight-Ashbury district of San Francisco used to be, I bet that description didn't even weird the detective out. He probably knew of several other couples in the area who

identified as Muslim and sold weed and talked a lot about witches. Randy and Marsha told the detective that they couldn't, excuse me, told the detective that the couple didn't believe in driver's licenses, social security cards, or even electricity. But they did believe witches should be killed. Karen's friends said that they had tried to talk her out of living with them but she wouldn't listen. When Dorothy Baker received word about her daughter that she'd been murdered, Dorothy told the detective that her roommates were named to Susan and Michael Carson. So now he has their names.

Karen's friend, Greg Brewster, was the one who identified her body the last time he saw Karen. He asked how she was doing and she ignored him. When he asked why she wouldn't speak to him, she said a Muslim woman does not speak to anyone but her husband. Okay, but she's not married. He noticed that Karen had stopped visiting friends after she moved in with Susan and Michael. Greg remembered when he first met this strange couple. He said his girlfriend Katie Hudson told him she couldn't even be in the same room as Susan because Susan embodied evil. Hell yes, Katie sounds like one of the few reasonable people we've met in the story. Michael told Greg he had just written a book titled The Way.

It was an autobiographical tale about their trip to Europe, their conversion to Islam, and their experience selling weed throughout California and Arizona. I bet it's a real page turner. Bummer it was never published. I'm sure it's a masterpiece with a very cohesive, sane, well-structured narrative that isn't the least bit confusing to follow. Karen's friend Lillian Lasaw Susan and Michael, March 7th, 1981, said she was walking towards Golden Gate Park and saw them coming from the direction of the apartment and they both flipped her off. Of course they did, they're devout Muslims. I can't remember the last time I saw somebody who was Muslim and they did not flip me off. Karen's friends noticed that Susan and Michael were absent from her vigil in Golden Gate

Park and that sparked the first rumors that the couple might have killed her. Another potential suspect was David Carpenter, the trailside killer who we covered in episode 365. He was arrested March 14th, 1981, just a couple months after Karen was killed. Detective Karl Klotz ran Carpenter's prints, compared them to the partials from the crime scene, but it was not a match, bringing the focus back to Susan and Michael. So what happened March 7th, 1981? Michael will later confess to this murder, publicly, at a press conference no less. The following details based on his confession it is so weird but feels mostly true because they were so weird. He said Susan and Michael made

it to San Francisco, entered the apartments to wait for Karen who was out. When she returned she realized they were there and she waited near the front entrance. It was a standoff. Susan now taunted Karen repeatedly but she did not respond and just stayed in the front entrance silently for about two hours. What the fuck? Meanwhile, Michael was praying to Walla Walla. He decided that if Karen went beyond the front room, he would take that as a sign that he had to kill her. Karen finally walked in after his prayer. She ignored the carcass, grabbed a quilt and pillow, laid down on the kitchen floor, pretended to sleep. Michael now realized he had to

follow through on his promise. He prayed for the courage to kill her for another hour. Then finally he did kill Karen just before dawn. He snuck into the kitchen, grabbed an iron frying pan, and began beating Karen in the head with it. Hit her three times that he could feel the frying pan crush her skull. He said Karen groaned when he struck her. He knew she was still alive even after the third hit so he picked up a paring knife, stabbed her in the throat. Michael was adamant that he only stabbed Karen three times. Also said he was shocked that there was no blood, which he took as proof that Karen was indeed a witch, because everyone knows that witches are bloodless. Maybe Susan stabbed her the other times. Maybe he

was too high on weed or LSD to realize how many times he had stabbed her or how bloody it was. After killing Karen, Susan and Michael then fled to a place in the wilderness in southern Oregon that they called Alas Mountain. So they stayed in an abandoned cabin with a view of the Ashen River Valley and Mount McLaughlin. So it was freezing and they had little food, but Susan told Michael, this is Ahla's Mountain, the Lord will look after us here. The closest town to them was Lake Creek, which was a little more than a grocery store at this time. It's actually a little more than that now. It's just a tiny unincorporated community about 20 miles east of Medford. Another nearby town was Eagle Point, about a dozen miles north of Medford, and that's, Michael described that place as a

redneck place with your usual assortment of bars and gas stations. And Michael would make some little supply runs to Eagle Point. As it became more established on the mountain, Susan and Michael's neighbors started to buy some weed from them, but their supply was running out quickly. They planted some marijuana, but it would take a while to see the fruits of their labor. And by their third week on the mountain, Susan and Michael were starting to starve. Soon Michael will have lost around 40 pounds

And he was already lean before losing that weight. So he's dangerously skinny now Susan decided that God wanted her to fast and Michael felt called to travel to Los Angeles where he could eat so much fucking food Michael now Michael now leaves the mountain alone. He leaves behind May 13th, 1981, and he reaches LA by night time May 15th via a combination of walking and hitchhiking. Clearly mostly hitchhiking. Unless his skinny ass was world record fast when it came to speed walking. For the sake of comedy, let's pretend he did walk most of the 700 miles in just two days

time. Just a skinny wild eyed witch huntingdealing Muslim assassin who couldn't wait to kill Ronald Reagan. Wiggling his bony hips so fast his bell-bottom jeans were about to catch fire from friction. Back at the cabin. Susan was still fasting and having visions she believed were religious experiences. Much more likely visions brought on by hallucinogens and starvation and mental illness. For example, at one point Susan spotted a mouse inside the cabin and she said the mouse spoke to her and the mouse told her that the mouse was Karen. The mouse said quote, this is Karen.

It's a very weird mouse. Love that the mouse didn't say anything else. Just let her know, this is hey, this is Karen Karen and then just scurried off I guess. Oh, hey, thanks cabin mouse. That was very helpful So Susan's doing very well. She's living her best life in that cabin. Meanwhile down in Los Angeles Michael is using his time so very wisely After getting a little bit of food, he heads to the beach sits down and writes a statement condemning Ronald Reagan He calls Reagan a puppet for the Illuminati Reagan. He calls Reagan a puppet for the Illuminati and Jewish bankers and urges people to start an armed revolution to overthrow the beast. His mind has never

been clearer. God, I love seeing him at the top of his game. He also wrote a second statement professing that Islam was the only true religion in the world and that Muhammad was the final prophet. Then he made six handwritten copies of these very important musings and he taped into bulletin boards around town. Also went around scribbling stuff like Revolution Now, Death to Reagan, Death handwritten copies of these very important musings. And he taped them to bulletin boards around town. Also went around scribbling stuff like, Revolution Now, Death to Reagan, Death to the Pigs, and Free Afghanistan on the stalls of public restrooms.

At one point a cop confronted him for writing, Allahu Akbar on a trash can in front of the Jewish Senior Citizen Center, or in front of a Jewish Senior Citizen Center. It doesn't say exactly where. Michael then wanted to go to Culver City where he sent a copy of his book The Way to publishers, a publisher, but for some crazy reason the publisher never responded. He guessed a few people at the office had a good laugh about how crazy slash terrible the book was and then threw

it in the trash. Michael wanted to have something to bring back to Susan to show her all the work he'd been doing so now he decides to hitchhike to Santa Cruz and obtain food stamps under a false ID. Apparently that was a common hippie grift in Santa Cruz at the time. He arrives at the surf town May 20th, 1981, gives a worker a fake name, says he's from Oklahoma trying to get back to his family. He is told it will take three days for his food stamps to arrive. Michael is worried that Susan will take three days for his food stamps to arrive. Michael is worried that Susan will starve to death by then, so he just leaves. Just starts hitchhiking back up north without any food stamps. Susan and Michael finally reunite, May 23rd, 1981. Susan has not starved to death. She is somehow fine. Maybe she ate Karen the mouse or something. The mouse probably returned. Started talking to her some more. This is me, Karen again. I'm

very tasty. You should eat me. You should put me on a stick and roast my little ass. Chomp me up. Bones and all. Yum yum. Susan decided that since the police weren't actively looking for them anymore, they could travel without worrying. She wanted Michael to go to Alderpoint, California, small town in the heart of California's best marijuana growing region, to ask their friends for a loan of a few pounds of weed to get them back on their feet. And Michael did as he was told. You bet your ass he did. You do not deny the general. Mam, yes mam. He made the journey without getting caught and their friends John and Sally did loan them three pounds of weed and a sample of a new strain. Oh man, a friend with weed truly is a friend indeed sometimes.

Michael traveled back to Oregon and now he and Suzanne sold weed to people in the area and business was good. They had cash, food, a little extra weed for themselves. Michael even made a second trip down to LA, sold some weed there. But then their good fortune changed when the weather warmed up. A cistern they had been using to collect rainwater so they could drink went dry. And then, gosh dang it a Ranger from the Bureau of Land Management showed up and ordered them to leave the property

Since it was not their property and they were squatting in an abandoned cabin with no running water electricity or plumbing How are these two idiotic batshit crazy gremlins still alive? They're practically feral at this point in August of 1981, Susan and Michael now traveled out of New Mexico, and these two insane deadbeats stay in another abandoned cabin in a ghost town near the Arizona border called Mungayun. Excuse me, Mungayun. Mungayun, I think is how you say it, where they sold weed to tourists. I listened to a few videos, by the way, about how to say that town and everyone says it differently. While a few people live in this way, about how to say that town, and everyone says it differently. While a few people live in this area now, it was apparently totally abandoned back in 1981,

and this cracks me up, them staying in an abandoned ghost town. Just imagine going to explore like a remote ghost town. You see no other cars around, you think you have to place yourself, and then as you're looking for, I don't know, like old signs, old coins, or whatever, people that used to live there. Two just filthy, completely insane hippies, completely cracked out, just pop out of some shadows. Just, hey, who wants some weed, friend? Oh, we sell to anyone who ain't no witch. You ain't a witch, are ya? Once their product ran out, they traveled to Colorado, Arizona, Montana, and then back to Los Angeles.

Selling weed everywhere they went, squatting in abandoned homes. September of 1981, they headed north to Garberville, cute little unincorporated town of about a thousand people in Humboldt County. Place legendary for good weed. Double Dick Reynolds writes about Humboldt County at the time, The rugged woods were filled with religious freaks and hippies who had fled the urban cities of the beast for the freedom of the forests where they could grow pot, mine gold, hunt deer, or live off the land. Humboldt County was the heart of the survivalist movement where hippies and right-wingers from Southern California had brought had bought

land and stockpiled weapons and food for the day when the bombs dropped. In Humboldt County it seemed as if everybody was waiting for World War III and some even secretly hoped the apocalypse would hurry up and arrive. Sounds a lot like Northern Idaho in the 90s except we didn't have the good weed. Just the apocalyptic focus and heavily armed preppers. Marijuana has long been one of the main industries of Humboldt County, part of the largest cannabis producing area of the US called the Emerald Triangle. In the 60s a lot of hippies were smoking a-ica strain and there were arguments about which strain was more potent. Growers and Humboldt crossbred the Sativa and Indica strains produced some of the most potent

Sinsemilla weed in the world. Sinsemilla flowers do not produce any seeds and this seedless weed stronger, smoother than other available weed at the time. And the deep green hue of the Sin Samilla plants gave Mendocino, Trinity, and Humboldt counties the nickname of the Emerald Triangle. And Reynolds writes that Garberville, located along Highway 101, was the capital of the weed growing region. But Susan and Michael didn't have any luck finding work there. While hitchhiking in the area, they were picked up though by a man named John Walker. Susan explained their situation to John and offered him the remainder of their magic mushrooms. He said he knew somebody who had just

harvested their crop and could probably get them a job and he dropped him off at the post office in Alder Point 10 miles east of Garberville and returned an hour later with a job offer. Walker then took them to a motel, left them with a big old bag of harvested weed, asked them to manicure, clip and sort it into plastic bags. And Michael and Susan now earned his trust by working through this product all through the night, not stealing it, and they were hired. Next day, John now took them to a property called Rancho Sequoia where he revealed he

was the owner, not the employee of the weed farm there. It had long been a dream of Susan and Michael to live on a marijuana plantation as Allah He was the owner, not the employee of the weed farm there. It had long been a dream of Susan and Michael to live on a marijuana plantation as Allah wished for his most faithful, praise be to Allah, the great God of ganja. And in true hippie fashion, they now started sleeping in an abandoned Volkswagen bus on the property. The ranch they stayed at is actually located in the area of Humboldt County that has earned the nickname of Murder Mountain, thanks to the high number of murders and disappearances that have occurred there over the years, and

the Carson's helped contribute to that name. The marijuana farm and the Carson's story was featured in the 2018 Netflix docu-series Murder Mountain, which primarily explores the disappearance of 29-year-old Garrett Rodriguez in 2013. Rodriguez was grown medical marijuana at Rancho Sequoia in the vicinity of Murder Mountain. Humboldt County has been described as a stunning verdant enclave of mountains, rivers, and redwood trees. At one point, about 60% of the marijuana grown in the U.S. came from Humboldt County. At Alder Point, the closest town to Murder Mountain was a hippie refuge in the 70s.

Police crackdowns on marijuana in the 80s increased prices and pushed out gentler farmers, and those who stayed were more criminal and brutal, kind of like Latin America's cocaine cartels. The densely wooded mountain terrain makes it easy to conceal illegal activities. And Susan and Michael love their new digs here, and they especially like the fact that none of their coworkers asked any questions about their past. They weren't the only ones at Rancho Sequoia who were wanted by the police. But then they made enemies with Louis Dietz, one of John Walker's friends slash employees. And this will fuck up their situation at the ranch later.

Michael hated Louis. He thought he was lazy. For right now, each day, Susan and Michael hauled water and help with harvesting them. Also trimmed and sorted weed. And when they did, they would save the shake, the throwaway pieces to build up their own supply. Think of shake, small buds, broken leaves, stems, seeds, if you're growing weed that produces seeds, as the little crumbs in the bottom of a bag of potato chips that a lot of people just toss in the trash. In September of 1981, after the main harvesting for the season was over, Susan and Michael took the shake they'd been collecting and left the ranch. And they spent the winter of 81 82 in Portland Oregon arriving in mid-November. They showed up with a 20 pounds of shake and about five pounds of valuable inner bud and were able to make

decent money selling it all. Susan told Michael he could use their downtime that winter to write a new book too. She said it should be titled Cry for War and it should be a call for a revolution. Such a shame we can't read this book just like we can't read this first. Sounds like another masterpiece. What a massive loss to the world of literature. In his second book, esteemed author Michael Bear Carson writes about the apocalypse, the Rothschild family, the Vatican, the Illuminati, secret Jewish bankers controlling the world.

The book also contained a hit list of powerful people like Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon, George Bush, the elder George Bush, H.W., Margaret Thatcher, the Pope, California Governor Jerry Brown, Charlie Manson, and others. The book called for the world's hippies to unite and come together to kill police, bureaucrats, and tax collectors. They were also supposed to bomb power plants, destroy roads and bridges, and burn cities to the ground. I'm not sure an army of hippies is the right crew for that task. The book echoed the duo's earlier predictions of a nuclear war,

followed by an Aquarian age where the earth would return to its natural state. By the spring of 1982, god I hope somebody has a copy of this book somewhere, it'd probably be worth some decent coin. I don't know, maybe, maybe it wouldn't. By the spring of 1982, Susan and Michael were ready to hit the road with a grand total of six copies of this book. They didn't have a specific destination in mind, they were just, you know, letting God guide them. Susan and Michael returned to Rancho Sequoia. God guided them back to some weed. In April of 1982, John Walker welcomed them back for planting season. They were hired as caretakers, meaning they would help with planting, tend to irrigation pipes,

and just watch over the crop until harvest. Walker even gave Michael a 22 rifle he could use for security purposes. Anyone tried to steal or sabotage their crop? Michael's old enemy, Louis Dietz, still there, currently waiting for he and John Walker's friend Clark Stevens to arrive from Los Angeles. Although Walker was kind to them and helped them in their time of need, Susan and Michael now started to believe that he and Louis Dietz were in the clutches of the beasts. They were witches. Witches be everywhere, even on weed plantations.

Clark Stevens, whom they also considered a creature of the darkness, arrived in his sports car and announced he was Walker's new parrower. Clark had recently gotten clean from from hard drug use after struggling with an addiction to heroin. Walker then bailed him out in Los Angeles and Clark signed over the title of his truck to pay Walker back. Susan disliked Clark because he was loud and he and Walker snorted coke together. Clark was clean from heroin but still did everything else. There was tension between he and Walker because Clark's ex-girlfriend Jennifer was now dating John Walker, and he often saw them together at the ranch, which was awkward.

Lot of drama here. By nightfall the day he arrived, Clark was very drunk. He and Michael argued about the potency of male vs female marijuana plants and when Louie Dietz's name is brought up They got into each other's faces and started shouting Susan then told Michael not to talk to Clark anymore because he had negative vibes and then Clark allegedly said to her sister What's the matter with you? And Suzanne responded? I'm not your sister and then Clark called her a crazy-ass bitch and then Michael wanted to shoot him dead But he didn't. He walked away because he didn't want any trouble.

Michael didn't warn Walker that Clark was trouble, but Walker did not do anything about it. Next night Susan and Michael stayed in their bus and now they hear Clark and Walker fighting over Jennifer. Jennifer runs over to the van tells them that Walker's gonna kill Clark because Clark called her a whore. She wants Michael to stop the fight, but Susan orders him to stay out of it. Instead, Clark and Walker now get into a wrestling match, and then when it's over, Clark tries to ride off on his motorcycle, but he's too drunk. Got a lot of fucking geniuses in this story. He eventually is able to leave the ranch by following morning though. A lot of drama in the circles Michael and Susan run in. Probably because most of these people are witches. John Walker then decides to take his girlfriend Jennifer aka Clark Stevens ex-girlfriend to a

motel and he now tells Michael that no one is allowed on the ranch except for a few select people and Clark is not one of them. But then Clark shows up the next morning and now Michael tells him you can't come on the property but Clark refuses to leave. When Susan yells at Michael to get Clark the fuck out of there, Clark says something obscene to her. According to a prison interview with Michael and Susan later, he said quote, a reference to Susan's womanhood that Michael will never repeat. Only Clark, Susan, Michael, and Allah will ever know what Clark said that day, and Clark was going to have a long time in hell to think about it. Alright, drama queens.

After Clark said his offensive words, Michael took out a secret.38 pistol that he kept in a holster, pointed it at him, and pulled the trigger. What a misfire. Clark and Michael then stared at each other in shock for a moment. Then Clark tried to grab the gun, but Michael pulled the trigger again, and this time it did fire. And the bullet hit the lower part of Clark's mouth and he fell to the ground. Michael then shot him again in the ribs and then a third time in the brain. Shot him just behind the ear from point

blank range. His second victim. Michael and Susan now go about covering up the crime scene. Michael buries the spent cartridges. Susan thinks the best place to hide the body is in the quote pot patch. It was hard work to drag Clark's body up the trail. Susan will go back and smooth out the drag marks and blood trails he left behind. They first attempted to burn his body using kerosene as an accelerant, but it wasn't enough to turn Clark into ashes. So they buried what was left to him under a pile of chicken fertilizer. Buried him in a pile of shit.

Just as they finished, second week people are getting buried in shit. Second week in a row here. Just as they finished, second week, people are getting buried in shit. Second week in a row here. Just as they finished and emerged from the bushes, a neighbor came walking up the trail, a friend of John Walker's. Michael pretended that he and Susan were just fixing a leak in the irrigation pipe, and the guy seemed to buy that. Later in the afternoon, Clark's new girlfriend from Las Vegas arrives at the ranch, and is surprised he wasn't at the airport to meet her.

She said they spoke on the phone that morning, she was bringing drugs and he was supposed to be there. Everyone on the ranch now wondered where the fuck Clark is and why had he abandoned his truck? Why would he leave if he knew a supply of heroin was coming his way? So I guess maybe he's not totally clean. Susan and Michael soon became the group's prime suspects in Clark's disappearance. They tried their best to play it cool when they get the chance they steal Clark's clothing from his truck. Conveniently the back of Clark's truck is filled try their best to play it cool. When they get the chance, they steal Clark's clothing from his truck. Conveniently, the back of Clark's truck is filled with topsoil, and they use that to finish burying his body in the clothes. Then they

spend two more days at the ranch under a cloud of suspicion. During those two days, Susan and Michael tell people that Clark got into a fight with John. Hmm? Huh? Threats were made. And, you know, Clark drove off on a motorcycle. What's going on there? And now some people, they remember the Clark and Walker had argued and the John Walker swore he was gonna kill Clark Walker is now angry that he is the newest suspect and he suggests sending his dogs out to find Clark But Michael talks him out of that Some of Clark's friends speculate that he overdosed and is dead in the bushes somewhere Lucky for the witch killers. No one at the ranch wants to go to the police right now, for obvious reasons.

Because they're growing a lot of weed. Then when Louis Dietz insists that Susan and Michael had killed Clark and just won't let it go, fucking Louis, they tell Walker they gotta leave. Because they need more money. And now the dynamic duo heads out of Humboldt County for the moment. May of 1982, the couple travels to Takilma, Oregon. Little hippie, artist, enclave of about 400 people, known mostly now for a tree fort resort. It's in southwest Oregon,

right on the California border. Where the war will soon break out, where Susan, the general, will lead the forces of Allah against Ronald Reagan's army of witches. Michael and Susan do some deadbeats, excuse me, deadheads, and potheads in this area, but none of their friends will allow them to stay with them because they're too fucking insane now. Susan and Michael stay for two days in a motel and then they run out of money.

Now they camp in the nearby Siskiyou National Park and within a week they are totally broke and hungry again. You know, for a couple of God special people They never seem to be doing very well After some debate they agreed to return to Rancho Sequoia in Humboldt County The only place where they had been able to get work in recent years but now John Walker is away in Los Angeles and the only people present are a worker named Cliff and his girlfriend and Cliff tells Michael that Louie Dietz is adamant that they had killed Clark

John Walker is scared that he'll be blamed for the murder as well saying that you know now he is saying that Michael and Susan are the killers. Cliff said that Louis would call the police if he saw Susan and Michael. So Michael now tells Cliff that Louis has to disappear. That meddling weed witch has gots to go. Cliff who apparently also didn't like Louis said he'll go along with Louis being killed. As long as they didn't bury the body anywhere on the ranch. So many characters. Now Susan and Michael plan to kill their nemesis, Dope Witch. They were gonna kill Louis the following morning, but then Louis never showed up and they just decided that that was a sign that they weren't supposed to kill him.

And these two geniuses leave the ranch again. sign that they weren't supposed to kill him and these two geniuses leave the ranch again. Then, May 11th, 1982, when Susan and Michael are leaving Alder Point, walking down the road, guess who drives by him? Fucking Louie Dietz, he's back. And he calls the police because minutes later an unmarked police car approaches him. The deputy rolls down his window, asks if they knew where a woman named Susan lives. Michael pointed to the hill behind them, gave the deputy false directions as the deputy drove away. They have gotten away with murder again, at least for the moment. But their lives are still absolute garbage. Susan and Michael now sleep in the forest of the Trinity Mountains at night. They wanted to leave the area, but they were broke and having a hard time finding a ride because they stink and look as crazy as they are.

This doesn't show up in sources, but I also picture them vetting potential rides to make sure they're not witches and that not helping their cause. Do ye be friend or witch? Do ye be cool or snitch? The next day they're watching a logger on the road when they see four police vehicles heading towards him and they start running. They start to they go to hide deeper in the forest where they sleep again that night. They actually end up hiding in the woods for the next three days covering 50 to 60 miles of the Trinity County wilderness on foot and getting lost and separated. How are these idiots still alive? God, I wish a bear would have eaten at least one of them. Susan, after she gets separated from Michael, discovers a cabin in the Six Rivers National Forest, May 15th. She decides she's gonna kill the senior couple that lives there once the sun is set. Fuck those elder witches bitches! But

she grows impatient and doesn't wait for nightfall. She's too hungry. She approaches the cabin with a rifle, but the gun misfires, shoots into the air. When it does, the old man living there comes out, wrestles the rifle away from her. Now Susan starts crying, tells the man and his wife a fake sob story, says she's pregnant and her husband wants her to have an abortion. She wants to keep the baby. She's run away. She got lost in the woods and that's how she ended up trying to rob him. So sorry. She begs him not to call the police and they don't. They even drive her to Bloxburg, California, a tiny unincorporated community back in Humboldt County.

Meanwhile, Michael ends up making it out of the woods hitchhiking all the way down to LA, May 19th, and much to his surprise, you know how he, you know who he sees just north of LA on a freeway ramp? Fucking Louie Dietz, again. These guys just can't get away from that weed warlock. Louie stops his car long enough to yell out the window that Michael is in big trouble and he speeds off. Michael now starts running away from the freeway. When a patrol officer spots him, orders him to lie down on the ground, he does. The officer comes over, pats him down, unfortunately misses the pistol he kept in a holster above his groin, the murder weapon he just used to kill. Michael is handcuffed. He's patted down again, and they miss his pistol a second time. At the time the police were looking for a

rape suspect, Michael felt relieved when he heard that because he knew they had the wrong man. He was told he will be taken to the station for photographs and then if the victim sees his picture and says he is not the rapist he will be released. So Michael is now driven to the Monterey Park station. He ditches his pistol in the back of the seat in the back seat of the police car during the ride in the cruiser, tells officers his name is Richard Arada and they don't question it. He's cooperative when he's photographed, the victim confirms he is not the rapist and the officer is dropping back off at the freeway ramp where he had been spotted by Louis. And now Dick Arada aka Michael Bear starts hitchhiking back up north to try to find his

fellow witch hunter. Backing up two days, Humble County detectives found Clark Stevens' body May 17, 1982. Detective Rod Lester was on security duty at a narcotics trial when his captain asked him to go to Alder Point. Lester and his backup, Detective George Hill, meet two officers from Garberville at Rancho Sequoia. Not sure if Walker hit his weed before they showed up or if the police just didn't care about it at this moment. The officers are briefed on the situation. John Walker's collie, his border collie, had found a body in the woods and dragged a skull down the hill. The dog had eaten the eyes and brain and was playing with the skull when Walker

found it. My god, imagine seeing your dog do that. Walker suspected it was his missing friend Clark Stevens skull. Walker told the police that a couple named Susan and Michael were staying on the property before they disappeared. Now once again they were the main suspects in a murder investigation. Detectives traveled up a lumber road, found a tall tree adjacent to a grave site. The tree marked a deer trail which was lined with bags of chicken manure and it looked like someone had just laid foliage on the trail, as if they were trying to conceal something. The tree also had char marks on it indicating there had been a fire.

Detectives now found the shallow grave which contained the burnt, headless body of a weed, warlock, a bong witch. Animals had gotten to it and eaten most of the remains. The victim's wallet had been burned but not completely destroyed and investigators could still read the name Clark Stevens on it. Clark's bone fragments, now collected and shipped off for analysis, detectives Lester and Hill take prints inside the van to try and identify Susan and Michael. They later received word that Louis Dietz reported seeing Michael on the freeway just

north of LA near the Rose Bowl and that he had been detained but then released by some cops. Authorities did at least now find the gun hidden in the back of the patrol car that Michael had stashed. It was a five-shot, fully-loaded revolver, the murder weapon the police were looking for. Detective Rod Lester learned that the suspect gave the name of Richard Arata. The police entered that name into the state crime computer, and there was an incident

report about that dick from Trinity County several days earlier. On the morning of May 12th, several deputies were on a search and rescue mission when they passed two hitchhikers near the summit of Highway 36. When the hitchhiker saw the police they dropped their bags ran off into the woods. They were pursued but they got away. When the team picked up the backpacks they found a bunch of weed, a box of live 38 bullet cartridges, and a temporary license for Richard Arata. Lester noticed that the description of the hitchhikers matched the suspects in the Clark Stevens case. The deputy who filed the

incident report identified Michael as the male suspect in the photo line lineup. Lester examined the backpack, saw a copy of Michael's manuscript cry for war which called for the assassination of various political figures. Detective Lester sent a copy of the manuscript to the Bureau of Organized Crime and Crime Intelligence, asked them to lift some prints off of it. He sent the bullets to the state lab for testing in comparison to the revolver. Lester and Detective George Hilden traveled to Scottsdale, Arizona, talked to Susan's ex-husband, who said she'd ran off with a guy named Michael three years earlier.

Detectives obtained a copy of her 1978 arrest record, which had copies of her fingerprints and her photo. When Susan was arrested she listed her boyfriend as James Clifford Carson which is Michael's legal name of course and now detectives have the real names and real photographs of both murder suspects. Rod Lester will now spend eight full weeks in Scottsdale waiting for Susan and Michael to return but they don't. Meanwhile detectives receive news that the bullet from the backpack matched the revolver found in the police car and the bullet fragments taken from Clark for Susan and Michael to return, but they don't. Meanwhile, detectives received news that the bullets from the backpack matched the revolver found in the police car and the bullet fragments taken from Clark Stevens' skull.

They secured a murder warrant against both Michael and Susan now. Additionally, because of the threats of the Cry For War manuscript, a Secret Service gets involved, and they assign Agent Kent Barnes to this case. Now let's check in with Michael's ex-wife, Lynn, for a moment.

In 1982, Lynn fled to Southern California with her daughter Jen, who was seven years old at the time. At first, they were living with her with her mother's uncle, a former cop who believed Lynn when she said she was afraid Michael and Susan might kill them. Like I said earlier, she had cut off contact with anyone who had contact with Michael and moved often. Lynn worked odd jobs, sometimes struggled to buy necessities, also dealt with severe depression. Then in May of 1982, the secret service knocked on her great uncle's door. Lynn answered questions about her ex-husband, and they would tell her that he and his wife were murder suspects and were investigating him for a substantial threat. So she's more stressed out and worried about Michael and Susan than ever. Susan and Michael they reunite May 20th and they reach a safe house where some friends lived in Sonora by May 23rd

1982. She was ready to leave after a few days though and these dirty nomads hit the road again and head north. They lived in a commune in the mountains above the unincorporated community of Covello, California in Mendocino County's Round Valley Basin for a little bit, then spent most of the summer traveling up and down the California coast. They spent some time in New Mexico as well. They returned to California, the state near Mendocino. Then Susan grows bored, wants to return to Alderpoint to quote, confront the beast. But then because Susan is so fucking insane, as soon as they arrive, she decides that the vibe is wrong and they should leave immediately Michael's pissed, but she's the general and orders have to be followed

So now they decide since it's October and getting cold she had to Texas sell some dope out there Now during their hitchhiking journey they get a ride from a delivery driver who dropped them off in Santa Rosa Michael wanted to kill this guy steal his van But didn't feel the opportunity was there and ended up purchasing a different van, a stolen van from another broke young couple living on the road for just 40 bucks and these two cockroaches continued just barely scraping by. Continued to barely scrape by. They ditched the van in case they need it later in the woods and then they hitchhiked to the LA area. What a life they're living. In late October they make it to Venice Beach, California and run into more problems. A man who called himself the mayor of Venice Beach caught

them trying to sell some weed, told them they couldn't sell on his turf. Susan and Michael then get into a huge argument. She didn't like how he handled things with the mayor. She thought he should have stood up to that beach witch. Michael felt humiliated by Susan, thought she should be listening to him since he was the husband, but she's the general so it's complicated. Michael ends up getting so pissed off he ditches Susan and leaves, but then he feels guilty. Heads back to Venice Beach but now she's gone. She had caught a bus to Bolinas, yet another unincorporated community in California. This one's some 400 miles from Los Angeles on the other side of the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco. For fuck's sake, these two broke ass goblins just keep bouncing up and down the West Coast.

When is someone going to stomp on them? Michael- I meant to say stomp on these roaches, it probably makes a little more sense as opposed to just stomping on some human beings. Michael made it to Bolinas by Halloween and finds Susan staying in the stolen van they'd hid in the woods. They now decide that their separation was a test from Allah and they have passed. Oh rejoice! Thank you for your divine guidance.

Now they're closer than ever. God, the power of rationalization. It is so disturbing what we meet sacks can rationalize because we can rationalize literally anything. Sprinkle enough magical thinking onto something and anything can seem logical to the right person. Susan and Michael make it back to Portland, Oregon December of 1982. Despite being closer than ever they start fighting because they've sold their

van for three hundred bucks worth of weed but then their Portland customers are too picky and don't want to buy their shitty weed. And now Susan blames Michael for the two being broke again. So they hit up an acquaintance Tom Miles and he lets them stay to his place but after a couple weeks he complains that Susan and Michael have overstayed their welcome and he wants these fucking freeloaders to get out. And they do. But not before Michael steals Tom's 38 pistol from his bedroom. January 1st, 1983. Susan and Michael are now back in Bolinas. Then they head north again the very next day. Then on January 2nd, 3rd they're stranded outside of Ashen, Oregon and they're fighting again. But now Susan

tells Michael they just have to follow the vibes and trust in Allah. And sure enough another hippie couple pulls up and offers them a ride. Oh praise be! This couple is driving south. These dingbats now bounce back down south. During this drive the couple seems to think that Susan and Michael, this couple that's picked him up, are too radical and they think about dropping him off. They talk about it and Michael now wants to kill them, but Susan doesn't think that's a good idea. You have to be pretty crazy for Susan to be your voice of reason. She asks the couple to please reconsider and just let them stay in the van for a little while and the couple does reconsider and they do.

The couple saves themselves by allowing Susan and Michael to stay with them until the next day. Then a few days later, January 11th 1983, the Carzens are now stuck at a coffee shop after hitchhiking a bit more on Highway 99 outside of Bakersfield. Now they're thinking about heading to Texas again. So they go to the nearby town of Buttonwillow hoping someone will pick them up there and get them to I-5 so they can head south. Driver stops to pick them up but Susan again thinks the vibe is all wrong. Susan tells Michael even before meeting this driver quote we have to kill him he's a very powerful witch. Well the driver

rolls down his window asks if they want to go to Humboldt County, even offers them a place to stay at his friend's house. And now Susan and Michael, despite this powerful witch, despite the wrong vibe, hop in the dude's truck. Driver of the car is 30 year old John Helier, who had left his home in Lakeside, California as a teen because he wanted to be an independent human being, kind of a nomad. He's part of the hippie movement according to his brother Danny. By the time he was 30, he was working in the agriculture business.

I interpret that as meaning weed. John had hitchhiked often as a teen, and because of that, he felt compelled to stop and give other hitchhikers rides when he saw them. John is on his way to see some friends in Santa Rosa when he picks the carsons up. Michael later said he did feel confident that Susan was right about John being a powerful witch, but he still wasn't gonna kill him without seeing

some additional evidence. Well now John shares a joint with the couple in the car and the weed allows Susan to properly assess John's energy. She asked him what sign he is and he says he's a triple Scorpio. Holy shit! Not just a Scorpio! A triple Scorpio. The Sun, Moon, and the rising sign all in the zodiac sign of the Scorpio. Susan tells him that this is very powerful and John supposedly responds, Oh, yes, I've cultivated my power and I can do almost anything. Totally. He then bragged that his psychic powers had made him rich and he could get anything he wanted with the power of his mind. Yeah, that makes it totally. A lot of people talking about their powers in this episode.

Makes me sad that I don't have any special powers. While he talked, John nudged Susan in the ribs, patted her leg a few times, then she told him not to touch her at all because she's Muslim. But then that handsy motherfucker continued quote getting familiar with her. And then during the drive, Susan realized that John had lied about where he was taking them. He was taking them to Santa Rosa in Sonoma County, not Humble County. They worried he was going to abandon them on Highway 101, which was known for having a lot of California Highway Patrol presence. Shortly after it got dark, they pulled up to John's friend's house in the outskirts of Santa Rosa. John promised his friends that he would take them to the freeway the following morning. They all go inside, and while Michael and Susan are in the kitchen looking for food,

they hear John and his friends in the other room talking about drugs. John is a small-time dealer and he and his friends are snorting coke and doing little drug deals together. And now, and then when it's time to sleep, Susan and Michael are asked to sleep in the bed of John's truck like fucking dirty animals instead of a la special witch assassins and this offends them greatly. They were being treated like they were a couple of insane broke filthy murderous hippies or something Susan tells Michael that John has to fucking pay that one of them has to kill him the next day

Michael says he's ready He feels obligated to defend Susan's honor because John had touched her in a quote sexual manner after she asked him to stop he didn't He touched her knee nud nudged her ribs with his elbow. But according to Michael's take on his religious convictions, this was enough of a crime to be punishable by death. On the morning of January 12th, 1983, John plans to drop Susan and Michael off at the River Road Freeway ramp. But of course, they have different plans. They had planned to kill him and steal his truck. John asked his friend's girlfriend if she wanted to come with him that morning. He wanted to take her out for breakfast after he dropped the hitchhikers

off but she declined. A lot of dudes scammed on their friend's girlfriends in this episode. Anyway, Michael started to panic as they drove down River Road. He was sure they were going to get caught. John started slowing down about 300 yards from the freeway ramp to drop them off. As they approached a roadside fruit stand, Susan leaned forward nodded to Michael giving him the signal that they needed uh that he needed to kill John but Michael doesn't pull his gun out so so Susan starts yelling do it do it and now John looks over realizes what's going on. Michael pulls the pistol out of his holster points that aim but hesitates to shoot. Susan screams at Michael to shoot uh while John

looks at the gun and asks what's going on? Michael now says, this is a holdup. John shakes his head in disappointment and replies, after I did so much for you. And then before Michael can shoot, John grabs the pistol, wrestles it away from John. John is still driving and John, excuse me, John grabs the pistol and wrestles it away from Michael. John is still driving and he slams on the brakes, stops in the gravel parking lot in front of the fruit stand. John grabs his keys, tries to escape with a toolbox which supposedly held a bunch of coke, according to Susan. Michael lunges at him, they roll out onto the gravel together. Michael now

tries to wrestle the pistol back out of John's hand, but John overpowers him, supposedly points the gun at Michael. John now calls out to the fruit stand clerk to call the police, but the young man just stands there, doesn't do shit. Michael asks Susan to help him. She pulls a stainless steel kitchen knife out of her boot, stabs John in the back, and then the blade snaps off. Susan grabs apparently just a fucking another knife she had carrying around in a person. Now tries to blind John with it, but he grabs her finger, bites down as hard as he can, and almost severs her finger. But doing all this distracts him enough for Michael to grab the gun from him. John now tries to run as Michael shoots him twice. The second bullet grazes John's head and he is stunned. He starts running

in a circle, runs right back into Michael's arms. Very dramatic. Susan and Michael now both grab John by the shoulders, drag him across the parking lot into a grassy field, dump him on the ground, and Michael shoots him twice in the head. Damn it! I so wish John would have shot them both when he had the chance. When you wrestle the gun away from someone or two someones who are trying to kill you, fucking kill them immediately. Not even joking. Shoot those motherfuckers. Don't give them another chance to shoot you. Michael and Susan later estimate that the entire ordeal probably lasted around 15 minutes. And yet the fruit stand worker never called the police.

Which makes me wonder, was that fruit stand worker Bob from Bob's bountiful Bonsai Fruit.bs? It seems like something he would do. You know, seems like he wouldn't want to, you know, probably tie up the phone line and, you know, possibly risk losing a sale to help somebody. However, a car approaches. Forget about Bob. Car approaches. Just after Michael chachan, the driver, according to Susan, stopped to pick up the toolbox,

then drove away with the supposed drugs. Susan now found the keys inside the truck, hopped in, and started to drive. Michael wanted her to get on the freeway ramp, but Susan headed north on a country road instead, and pretty soon Susan spots a police vehicle following her on Highway 101. Damn you, cop witches! The police had also set up a barricade outside the town of Calistoga. Whole army of cop witches trying to stop these righteous Muslim assassins. Susan drives straight at him, makes a sharp turn at the last second, just missing one

of the parked patrol cars. The cop car chasing her crashes into an embankment now. Susan and Michael race south, reaching speeds of 110 miles an hour. On the outskirts of Calistoga, Susan turns onto a gravel road, but it's a dead end. More cops are closing in. They both jump out, try to escape by running towards a vineyard near the Napa River. Michael fires at the police chasing them. Misses. The police fire five shots in return. Don't hit the couple. Michael runs down a dirt path through the vineyard and towards the river. Susan flees into the grass. Some officers wait for more backup before continuing

their pursuit to the grass, but two officers do follow after Michael and they catch him as he is wading across the river. And get this, because of his poor eyesight and him not wearing glasses to keep his third eye clear, Michael ended up getting turned around and he walked right back towards the officers. Then Susan came into view as they were cuffing Michael and she is quickly apprehended. They fucking got them both now. Hail Nimrod. Meanwhile back at the scene of the murder a UPS driver had witnessed Michael's final shots on John and called the police and then attempted to help but it was too late. He did hear John's last words though which were help me brother. help but it was too late. He did hear John's last words though which were help me brother. John's brother Danny was working as a UPS driver at this time and he thinks John mistook this driver

for him in his final moments. So sad. And again I wish John would have shot them both dead when he had the chance. John was barely breathing when the police arrived and was brain dead at the hospital where he died on the operating table. Killed by two.38 caliber bullets fired at point blank range. After a court hearing now, January 28th, 1983, Michael tells a reporter, quote, We want everyone to know we are political prisoners. I have written a book that explains everything, but the authorities have confiscated it. He is so out of his mind. He thinks that people can just read his latest book. A revolution would set him free. Join me!

Break us out! Help us kill head witch Ronald Reagan. The power of their coven will fade. And then we can finally free the world from the Jewish witch bankers, secretly pulling the strings. We can bring the entire witch illuminati to its knees. Burn the witches! January 31, 1983 now. Michael and Susan give up some of the rights of appeal so

they can be represented by the same public defender arguing they have a common defense. The judge tried to appoint a male lawyer for Susan, but she said I will not let that man near me. My husband's attorney is my attorney. Probably worried that guy would try to molest her by touching her knee or brushing up against her shoulders. He walked past her or something. The is my attorney. Probably worried that guy would try to molest her by touching her knee or brushing up against her shoulders. He walked past her or something. The preliminary hearing gets started March 3rd 1983. The court goes against Susan's wishes and assigns her a male attorney named Harry Allen who tries to get Susan to cast the blame on Michael considering he was the one who

pulled the trigger. He told her she could get an accessory charge and spend just a couple years in jail but Susan refused to go with his plan and tells him she would tell the one who pulled the trigger. He told her she could get an accessory charge and spend just a couple years in jail, but Susan refused to go with his plan and tells him she would tell the court she ordered the murder of John Hellyer. Okay, so she's a maniac, but she's at least loyal. Michael and Susan giggled and whispered throughout the hearing, and on the way to his holding cell for lunch, Michael shouted, Long live the IRA!

Death to the Queen! I think you have the wrong country there. I think your country's mixed up, but you're in the wrong one for that particular revolution. March 4th 1983. Judge orders a couple to stand trial after a day and a half of their testimony. On March 10th 1983, journalist Herb, or Herb, excuse me, Herb Cain published a note written by Michael Carson in the San Francisco Chronicle. It read, I am in the Sonoma County jail with my wife, Suzanne, charged with murder.

He put murder in quotes. I have received no publicity in the more important press, i.e. the Chronicle. Does a quote, crime have to be carried out in SF to get your attention? 50 miles away and being investigated by the FBI, secret service and CIA is not good enough for you big city snobs. I love these pissed off about not getting more attention for being a complete dirtbag. That day, Karen Barnes friend Katie Hudson was reading the Chronicle, sees this note from Michael, shows it to her boyfriend Greg Brewster, who calls Detective Carl Klotz.

Klotz said he will try to find out if this Michael and Susan Bear are the same people wanted for Karen's murder. Klotz confirms the defendants in the Santa Rosa case are Susan and Michael Carson, but he is not hopeful that he can get evidence to charge them with the murder of Karen Barnes. But they will. The Carson's are back in court April 12th, 1983 for a hearing on whether they should have separate lawyers or not. During the hearing, Michael blurts out,

we're not denying we killed people. Nice, very smart, very wise man. Also demands that he will be allowed to do an interview with a reporter. The judge orders that Susan be examined by two psychiatrists to determine if she is mentally competent to stand trial. Susan randomly complained that she would have rather had her diseased finger, the one bitten by John Hellyer, amputated than to spend six weeks in the hospital with antibiotics.

Okay. Susan would 1,000% be a staunch opponent of any and all vaccinations if she were free today and probably be posting on Facebook about how the government is using them to control our minds or some shit. She would sadly fit right in with more people today than she did back in the 80s. Late April 1983 it was reported that Susan was refusing to speak to her court appointed psychiatrists or her male lawyer. Michael's public defender Martine Miller requested the couple be represented by separate lawyers against their wishes.

Harry Allen gets appointed to Susan. The psychiatrist's report stated that Susan would not cooperate completely because they were men. She also complained about jail guards touching her in any way because she said it was against her religious beliefs. Oh, God. Detective Carl Klotz eventually able to travel to Santa Rosa to speak to Michael. Klotz and his partner sat there for half an hour, listened to Michael talk about his religion

and how it was 100% acceptable, a good thing actually, to kill a witch. When he was done ranting, Michael said, I can tell you the whole story about Karen Barnes, that murder, but I have a stipulation. He said he had several stipulations actually, before he would agree to a full interview. And more on that in just a second. Susan, forcibly removed from court April 23rd, 1983, when she continuously interrupted proceedings, her outbursts started after Susan's attorney Harry Allen requested that she be examined for mental competency. Allen explained that it might be possible for Susan to have the same attorney as Michael and be judged competent, but he couldn't explain how it would be possible to her because

she literally would not speak to him. He asked to hire a female attorney just to explain the rights Susan would be giving up. The judge agreed but emphasized that no defendant is entitled to an attorney based on sex, race, or religion. Days later, Susan and Michael made a shocking confession. Michael and Susan had set several conditions before they made their confession.

They wanted reporters present, they wanted the same attorney, and they wanted to be tried for the murder of Karen Barnes in San Francisco first. Well, alright. Detective Klotz has plenty of ammunition for this murder now. April 27, 1983, they hold a five-hour press conference mediated by detectives Frank Falzon and Carl Klotz they Maybe fell zone Frank those on but there's no either they spoke to reporters from the San Francisco Chronicle and KGO TV Michael said they confessed because we don't believe in lying He told reporters there would be an armed religious revolution and soon to overthrow head which President Reagan and also the California governor. He said quote only fools fear death death is not a cruel thing locking a man in a cage is a cruel thing. Before getting into the details the murders Michael wanted to give a whole backstory of how he and Susan met talk about all their travels.

Michael and Susan told the press about a lot of what you heard here today already that they're Muslim warriors you know disguise or excuse me disgusted with American life. He said quote witch, homosexuality and abortion are causes for death. They talked at length about how before they were converted to Islam, they were pacifists, they were Christian, they discussed how they practiced yoga and vegetarianism. Michael described Susan as a yogi and a mystic with knowledge of past, present and future events. So I guess she probably already knew they were going to go to prison. They finally got around to talking about the murders after hours of a bunch of this bullshit. They said they were afraid of their first victim Karen because she was the most

powerful witch in all of San Francisco. And they said she was stealing Susan's beauty and power. Susan called Karen a psychic vampire. Michael claimed that Susan got orders in her mind to kill Karen when they returned to California from their trip. He said, quote, each time Susan said it that Mrs. Barnes, that Ms. Barnes should be killed, the thunder would clap. They said Karen had put a hex on Susan during their trip east in February of 1981. Michael was able to describe details of the crime scene that were not public knowledge, but his description of the actual murder also didn't totally match the coroner's report. Blood was splattered throughout the kitchen, but Michael called it a bloodless murder.

As I mentioned before, when they were told Karen was stabbed no less than 14 times, they appeared to be shocked. Michael asked Susan if she thought the landlord did it. One of the detectives suggested that Michael might be mistaken about how many times he stabbed Karen. But he was insistent. He hit her three times with a frying pan and stabbed her twice, maybe three times in the neck with a paring knife. When Falzone suggested that Susan stabbed her, possibly as well, Susan snapped and screamed, I did not stab her! Uh, maybe, I don't know, maybe Michael was too high to remember how many times he stabbed her. How it went down, maybe he was tripping so hard he high to remember how many times he stabbed her. How it went down? Maybe he was tripping so hard. He didn't know how many times he stabbed her. Michael was reluctant to talk about the murder of Clark Stevens, but Susan interjected and described how they killed him and burned his body. They wanted to make it clear they acted together.

That Susan was the one who heard voices identifying who were the witches and that she was the one who would instruct Michael who they had to kill. It's very important for them to get that out there. They were asked if they were responsible for some decapitations at Golden Gate Park around the time of Karen's murder. Susan and Michael seemed offended and said, we just want to talk about the killings in Northern California. This gave detectives a suspicious inkling that there were other victims out there. They also believed that Susan did stab Karen multiple times after Michael had and just didn't tell him. The couple maintained that they had killed Clark Stevens and John Hellyer because they were for sure 100% dangerous witches and they had sexually assaulted Susan by

touching her knee and passing and shit. They said that they thought Clark was quote a demon and a petty witch who wanted to live off of Susan's life force. Petty witch. I like that. I hadn't heard that one before. Are you still mad at me for taking your latest eye of Newt? Stop being such a petty witch. Get over it. I like that. We got to get that out there. May 2nd 1983, some court appointed psychologists determined that Susan was somehow competent enough to stay in trial. However, these male psychologists were unable to get her to speak to them. So their report was based only on observations.

Uh, the Carson's were, uh, went to San Francisco for booking May 3rd. That day, Michael did another interview where he said he and Susan were following the will of God when they killed people and were willing to die for their beliefs. He also said many people shared their beliefs and would definitely rise up in a religious revolution to overthrow the president and the governor. You'll see. Also said that all three victims were open about practicing witchcraft and claimed again that his wife was sexually assaulted in two cases and mentally abused in another. He doesn't know what sexually assault means. He added that their faith ultimately led to their need to wage war. He said we didn't start

the war. The Holy Quran says not to be the aggressor. They were waging war against those who did not follow God's commandments, he said. The most serious transgressions being witchcraft and homosexuality. I would think murder would be higher than those two, but I guess not. Why do I now really wish that shortly before he'd been arrested, Michael had been held down and ass-raped by a guy in a witch costume? His fucking brain would have just exploded if that would have happened to him. Michael also said it's not against God laws to refuse to pay taxes or smoke marijuana. Adding the majority of people in jail have committed no crime under God's laws.

Michael and Susan arraigned for the murder of Karen Barnes May 6th. Despite their earlier and very public murder confession they both plead not guilty on May 13th. They are ordered to stand trial for the murder of Karen Barnes June 27th and then as it often does it took a while for the trial to get going. January 4th 1984 Susan Carson declared mentally competent to stand trial for murder in San Francisco. Michael Carson declared mentally competent to stand trial for murder in San Francisco. Michael Carson found mentally competent to stand trial January 9th. The trial gets started May 18th, 1984. The defense tried to get the jury to understand Susan and Michael's thought processes behind the murders, which was almost impossible because of how crazy they were. The defense actually argued that Susan, or excuse me, that Michael stabbed Karen under Susan's direction in self-defense

because he truly believed Karen was killing Susan with a spell that caused her to suffer severe constipation, prolonged sleep, and weakness. And she was also stealing Susan's beauty and health with her witch powers. Actually said that with a straight face in court. Oh, is it illegal now, people of the jury, to defend yourselves from fucking witch spells in this country? Land of the free my ass.

I guess when a witch makes a heart for you to poop, you just have to take it. The defense called on Maude Reinerstein, who described herself as a benign witch. Jesus Christ. To answer questions about witchcraft. Uh-huh. Now they actually got the judge to agree to have a witch expert take the stand. I feel like San Francisco might be the only city in America where you can pull that off.

A defense attorney, Marvin Rose said he wanted the jury to understand that there is a supernatural and that there is a scientific basis for this. That the only way the jury can assess these people's beliefs is through this expert. Oh my god. Reinersten testified that there is both white and black magic. That white magic works with the force of nature to heal and create while black magic involves manipulating people. Lloyd Auerbach, a teacher of parapsychology at JFK University this time, very little

known school, also testified, why not, and said that he knew of cases in which a spell literally caused someone's death, which was accomplished through the power of suggestion of the victim's belief in the magic. The jury began deliberating May 31st 1984, they had to answer the question of whether the fear of being killed with psychic forces justified a self-defense killing. How did that happen in 1984 as opposed to 1684? In closing arguments the prosecutor called it a classic case of murder in the first degree. The state emphasized that Karen suffered massive head fractures and 13 stab wounds to the neck. Michael's attorney Marvin told the jury he knew this is a quote the the actual

attorney was a fucking someone who has passed the bar exam someone who is legally allowed to be a defense attorney in the US said in court not joking he knew that unless Karen was killed, Susan was going to die, you're not dealing with the concept of killing a witch, but with the concept of saving his wife's life. There was no place for these people to go. They were dealing with an infinite amount of power. No, they weren't. Luckily, the jury had more integrity than Michael and Susan's defense attorney, and were smarter than him. June 4th, 1984, the Carson's are found guilty of first degree murder for the death of Karen Barnes. Jurors who spoke to the

San Francisco Examiner said they did not doubt the sincerity of the couple's beliefs, but their fears did not justify homicide. The four women summed up their feelings well by saying, I believe they, the Carson's, were honest. But I also thought they were deluded in their beliefs. Oh yeah, you think? You think? You think that they were? You couldn't say, I know. You couldn't say, they're fucking crazy. July 2nd, 1984, Michael and Susan are sentenced to 25 years to life for the murder of Karen Barnes. Michael received an extra year then for using a deadly weapon during the crime. Both of them were allowed to make statements in court. Michael would speak softly for about 20 minutes while Susan, quote, paced, shouted and cried behind him.

Michael said he killed Karen because she was killing Susan. He said, quote, I killed a witch because it's the law of God to do so when you're first attacked. I tell you that I did a righteous act to save the life of my wife. Someday the Lord God will set me free. The following are some quotes from Susan's lengthy and incoherent statement. She said, How many times can you be disrespected?

Have spells cast on you? My beauty was stolen. My chi, my chakras, are compromised. I can't dye my hair because of all the bad vibes. Where's Ronald Reagan? He doesn't have the balls to show his face to me because I know what he is. How many saving throws can you roll when you're almost out of hit points? I fucked two or three of my son's friends.

What would you do if they had weed and you loved young dick? Allah forgave me. I'm pure. God made me a virgin. He gave me a new hymen. Can a witch take it? I don't know. Does anyone have a Snickers bar?

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? As much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? Motherfuckers, don't fear the Reaper! You can't smoke acid, but you can smoke mescaline. I have! Twice fold! I've seen the devil! He is in the TV! Where's Johnny Carson? Okay, maybe I made that up, but as you'll see it's not that much more nonsensical than her actual statements She said, was it manslaughter or murder? Lying in wait? Lying in wait with a bag of groceries? Two people have never had less malice in their lives. To be beautiful, is that a crime? I just wanted to eat apples in a Santa Cruz apple orchard. That was good enough for me.

But as usual, someone came along and evicted us, so we went to San Francisco. There's no God in this town. And she, she ended her statements with, I'm human. I'm Muslim. May God have pity on your soul. How angry are you if you're a legit Muslim listening to these two dumb fucks trying to represent your religion?

June 20th, 1985, Susan and Michael Carson are convicted of first degree murder in the murder of John Hillier in Sonoma County. I'm skipping the trial details because they're repetitive. Just a bunch of the same old witch talk. August 29th, 1985, Michael Carson sentenced to 25 years for murder, 2 years for using a firearm, and 2 more years for stealing John's truck. Susan sentenced to 28 years. They're ordered to serve their time consecutively with a San Francisco sentence, bringing their totals to more than 50 years each. Two years later, May 14th, 1987, Michael and Susan convicted of first degree murder and the death of Clark Stevens. Their trial lasted just a week. Once again, same old shit. They claimed self-defense against spiritual attacks.

And they also alleged that Michael caught Stephen sexually assaulting Susan. That never happened and you know the part of their defense strategy was that Clark was in fact a very real witch, a black witch. February 23rd 1988 Michael ascends to another 27 years. Susan ascends to 25 years for the murder of Clark Stevens. Years later 2015 is reported that Michael and Susan could be eligible for parole due to a recent federal court ruling. A federal court concerned about overcrowding ordered hearings for 1,400 approximately California inmates over the age of 60 who had already

served more than 25 years of their sentences. December 2, 2015, the parole board denies Susan's early release. Susan did not appear at the hearing, refused to meet with her attorney, Laura Shepherd, who said she doesn't seem interested in attempting to seek parole. Michael's hearing is scheduled for June 30th, but he cancels his hearing because he will not renounce his religious beliefs,

is what he said. He wrote on his cancellation form, I know this is absurd. No one is going to parole me because I will not and have not renounced my beliefs." Michael's daughter Jen, now an adult, opposed his release. She told the Orange County Register, I spoke out against my father's parole because I believed he will kill again if released. We may never know how many people were killed by my father or where they are buried, but today there was justice for the three known victims, Karen Barnes, Clark Stevens,

and John Hellyer, and future violence was prevented. Over the years, Michael had sent his daughter letters, but the tone of those letters changed when she became outspoken about her desire for him to stay in prison for the rest of his life. Jen said that Michael bragged about the murders and talked about himself as though he was a political prisoner. Michael Carson is denied parole May 27th 2020. At this point Michael is 69, Susan is 77. Michael was denied parole for the next 10 years. His next hearing is

scheduled for May 27th 2030 but he can't petition for an earlier hearing. Susan was denied parole for 15 more years. Her next hearing is set for December of 2030. She will be in her late 80s if she is still alive at that point. Jen Carson told the Daily Beast, I truly believe that just because he is old does not make him safe regarding her father. With his lack of regret and his views and the hate he is filled with and his demented mind I think in a year or less someone else would be dead if he were let out. And that brings us to the end of the timeline.

Good job soldier, you've made it back. Barely. Another crazy tale. Before sharing some final thoughts, the folks over at Whipple bought a new ad that I'm very excited to hear. Today's Time Suck is brought to you by... Wait, what? What's that? Oh, fuck. Hey! It's not Whipple! It's Bob! I've hacked into the feed! Remember me? Bob from... Bob's BattlefulBond the feed. Ha ha ha. Remember me? You remember Bob? Bob from Bob's Battle For Bonsai Fruit.Biz. Ha ha ha.

I can't believe Dan called the cops on me last week. Luckily I was able to move my tiny orchard to a secret location, definitely not in Cairo, Illinois, where there's a lot of abandoned buildings. I can kind of run shit how I want because the cops are just glad I'm not selling dope. And Officer Anderson loves my delicious little bonsai Plums and he knows if he ruins my business he will never taste them again!

I can't ruin my business just bribing cops with tiny plums god damn it! Go to BobsBattlefulBonsaiFruit.biz right now! BobsBattlefulBonsaiFruit.biz it's not that it's not too many letters! I said, Bob's Bountiful- Bob's Bountiful Bountiful Fruit D- It's pretty delicious! I still listen to the show. I still might kill Deo's family, but I probably won't. I probably won't if you do the right thing.

And just- Maybe- Maybe try my tiny cashew trees. They look like peanuts when you eat them, cause they're- Cause they're cashews. How cool is that? It's very fucking cool! It's special! And you should be a billionaire! You should be a billionaire!

Who else is selling sweet lemons? Just buy a little lemon and drop candies. Whether or not candy, they're fruit. And you can only get them at a box of edible boxes. You could grow them yourself. But it's not, it's hard. Okay? What about tiny little pot plants? You can smoke tiny little joints. It doesn't take no work on it. The fuck you gonna do? Just try to buy a house. This place has rats. I think some of them are smoking crack and one has an eye patch and a knife. I saw him. I can't sleep at night. You try sleeping in an abandoned building with a rat with an eye patch and a knife. I SAID IT! I SAW HIM! I can't sleep at night!

You try sleeping in an abandoned building with a rat with an eye patch and a knife, and he's had a crack! Bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops, bops TURNING FRUIT! Fuck! I'm sorry about that. Uh, that son of a bitch. You heard him. He's hijacking the feed now. So that's uh, that is unreal. I'm sorry guys, between... between Sister Margaret leaving and Bob, it's fucking hard to do time suck right now. I just wanted to make a fun Halloween show and Bob ruined it. Please don't buy any of these stupid little trees. You know what? Fuck Bob. Fuck

him in his little tiny fruit hole. Okay? Resettle. Okay. My final thoughts now. It is bonkers to me that these two shitheads were able to avoid capture after their first kill for almost two full years Hitchhiking up and down the West Coast primarily between Portland, Oregon and Los Angeles, California Mostly just bouncing around Northern California staying a little unincorporated towns harvesting weeds selling weed fucking literally hiding in the woods like animals Staying in abandoned cabins while writing two weird books trying to make it to DC to kill the head witch Ronald Reagan It's amazing to me. They were able even to stay alive for those two years fending for themselves often just out in the woods in a cabin with no electricity running water or cash.

Just you know starving in a cabin talking to a mouse and like so many other losers we have covered they still thought after all that that that they were superior humans, that they have special powers, that they're God's special assassins. Just further proof that we humans can truly convince ourselves of anything, of the dumbest shit ever. What a hard and sad truth that actually is. While these two are such an extreme example of this, I'm sure all of you listening, you know, know or know of at least one person,

currently making terrible life choices, blatantly bad choices, and they just refuse to see it. And sadly, they might never see it no matter what you say, no matter what anyone else says. Free will, not always a beautiful thing. Sometimes it's a very sad, stupid, tragic, dangerous thing. Also, this episode, good reminder that psychedelics not for everybody. They're very powerful drugs. And if you're prone to hearing voices and having delusions of grandeur, thinking that you're having visions from the heavens without taking them, maybe don't ever take them. You do not need to add further instability to your mind in all likelihood. You know, just like alcohol doesn't mix with

everybody, just like weed doesn't mix well with some people, coke, heroin definitely don't mix with a lot of people. You know, neither do psychedelics. I wouldn't take them if I was truly worried about never coming back from a trip. Only fun for me because I know that my mind can handle them. I'm already a bit nuts, but I'm a steady nuts. I'm the same kind of nuts I've been my whole life for the most part and for me It's just fun to change it up for a few hours or most of the day Thinking a whole new way see some new shit But then come back, you know try to rationalize what I've seen in some way or just think about a ponder on it

You know Merge everything I just saw with the same old personality understand that that was you know Just the hallucinogens and I still have the basic outlook I had before I tripped I may have gained some new insights because it is fun to have your brain open up new channels and think in different ways and maybe I can incorporate some of that into my life but you know I'm not taken with powerful delusions like Ronald Reagan is the head witch and needs to be killed. I understand that my mind was altered, that I was not in fact getting visions from the great beyond.

If you're gonna trip, don't put any more stock into what you're seeing than you would in a weird ass dream. Just have fun and don't take it too seriously. Feel more spiritual while you're tripping? Cool. Yeah, me too. That's great. Gives me comfort, but I still don't feel like I have any concrete secret definitive answers. That's where people fuck up. Right? When they think that they hear very specific instructions that were just given to them and them alone because they are so special. Highly fucking doubt it. If you think that you're wrong. You're not that important. And I don't say that about you know just like someone other than myself. None of us are. I'm not, you're not, none of us. It is just your ego talking. It's just you trying to make more out of your life than what it really is.

You know you really want to try and change the world? Alright, study hard. Become a medical researcher. Go into tech. Work on inventing something new that will improve the world and, you know, improve people's lives. Go into activism. Go into politics.

But go easy on the acid. There are no special celestial missions awaiting any of us. Millions and millions have thought so in just the past couple hundred years and they have all been wrong. So calm down you petty ass witch. Stop pretending you have magical abilities. Just raise your kids to the best of your ability. Just be the best person, neighbor, you know, citizen you can be. Try and change the world for the better and small, reasonable, you know, attainable but it's still important ways. And let that be enough. Time now for today's takeaways.

Time shock, top five takeaways. Number one, Susan Carson and Michael Bayer Carson. Not actually Susan and Michael Bayer. Michael's legal name, James Clifford Carson. He lived a completely normal life, it seems, for the most part. And was a loving father until he and his family moved to Phoenix, Arizona. And Mike smoked some mescaline and became a different person. Turned into a religious extremist, which led to him becoming estranged from his family and has set the stage for his involvement with Susan.

Susan's legal name, Susan Thornel Barnes, when she met Michael with a head full of acid, she was a divorced mother of two who struggled with her mental health and fucked her son's friends. She believed her powers, and by powers we're probably talking about schizophrenic hallucinations, were demonic until Michael convinced her they were a gift from God. Susan came to believe she was a very powerful individual with knowledge of the past and future. She could sense darkness within people and identify true witches. She couldn't.

Number two, Karen Barnes was their first known victim. She met Susan and Michael a couple years before she died, thought they were her friends, and after they moved in together, she became interested in Islam and tried to emulate Susan, which infuriated her. Susan came to believe Karen was seducing Michael while also stealing her health and beauty powers and making her constipated and stuff. She and Michael concluded that Karen faked her conversion to Islam and put a hex on them because she was a powerful satanic witch and that meant she was deserving of death. Number three, the secret service got involved in the investigation after police found a copy of Michael's manifesto, Cry

for War, which called for the assassination of President Ronald Reagan, head witch, and other political leaders. Michael and Susan traveled east with the intention of assassinating the president, but didn't make it very far before they were called back to San Francisco to kill Karen. Number four, Susan and Michael might have committed additional murders that we will never know about. During their press conference confession, they refused to discuss quote matters outside of Northern California, which led many investigators to assume there were there were more witch murders. Number five new info let's talk a bit about Jen Carson, Michael's daughter some more. Dr. Jen Carson now and her mother Lynn. Jen Carson's traumatic past inspired her to help others. Court proceedings started

when she was nine against her father lasted until she was 19 due to the appeals process. Her mom Lynn gave Jen a modified explanation what happened when she was young because she didn't want her to learn the truth. Also didn't want her to find out about her dad you know just the general story from the trial about from the media. She told her daughter daddy hurt people now he needs to go to jail so he doesn't hurt anyone else. Jen later found newspaper clippings her mom kept and learned the details of the murders and she feared for her safety because she thought that if her dad was a killer, anyone

could be a killer. She would barricade her bedroom door at night, sleep with scissors and knives under her pillow. She attempted suicide at a young age because she worried she had quote monster genes and would eventually try and kill someone herself. Some family members told her to keep the murders as secrets so that because if she didn't, no one would marry her, which is a fucking weird thing to tell her. One relative even told her, Look at what you brought to our lives, you selfish little bitch. My god, sounds like that relative actually was a witch.

Fucking petty ass witch. One of Jen's boyfriends was going to propose but didn't because he didn't want his children to have a serial killer grandfather. That guy sounds like a dipshit. Jen thought about hiding her past, but ultimately decided, I will not go away to comfort others. She stopped mental health treatment. She first went public with who she was as far as her dad in 2007. She became a social worker, a suicide hotline manager,

a trauma expert while also getting a doctorate. She is now on the board of the American Association of Suicidology, a non-profit suicide prevention organization. Hail Jen and hail Nimrod. Her mom real quick, Lynn met her husband Michael Gonzalez in 1984. Michael 2.0, big upgrade over the first Michael. Jen said about new Michael, he is the knight on the white horse. She said he helped Jen get counseling, signed her up for Girl Scouts,

and Jen started to get better because he invested his time in his stepdaughter. Jen told People, I think the other part of my story that I always like to share is that our children are resilient. If we can invest with time and love and connecting the child to the help they need, our children can overcome early trauma and recovery as possible. So, bit of a happy ending and, oh my god, I cannot talk, bit of a happy ending on this story and recovery as possible. So a bit of a happy ending and oh my god I cannot talk. Bit of a happy ending on this story and I like it. Time Suck Top 5 Takeaways The San Francisco Witch Killers have been sucked. Fitting episode for Halloween right?

So much witch talk you petty little witches. Thank you to the Bad Magic Productions team for helping making Time Suck, starting with Queen of Bad Magic, Lindsay Cummins. Thanks also to Logan Keith helping to publish this episode and designing merch for the store at badmagicproductions.com. Got some spooky stuff in there. Thanks to Olivia Lee for her research. Thanks to the All Seen Eyes moderating the Cult of the Curious private Facebook page. The Mod Squad making sure Discord keeps running smooth, and everyone over on the Time Suck subreddit and Bad Magic subreddit. And now this week's Time Sucker updates. Updates? Get your Time Sucker updates! For our first update, Super Sucker Nathan Blakely writes in with the subject line of

Cairo, Illinois, Time Suck episode. Dearest Suck Lord, Mr. Daniel D. Wayne Cummins III. Long time sucker, first time worshipper here. While listening to this week's Suck on the loose butthole killer Karl Panzram, I perked up during your sidebar regarding the decaying town of Cairo, Illinois. And then you wrote, yeah, by the way, we pronounce it Cai-ro in Arkansas. For some reason, I had thought that Cairo was just another mid-sized regular Midwestern town until I had to travel through there for work some time last year.

And boy was I mistaken. Coming to the city for the first time was an absolutely surreal experience. Headed north, you're greeted by a 30 foot tall levee with a thick floodgate opening. Feels like you're entering a bunker or a military complex. After entering, you begin to see the once historical and architecturally complex buildings in what is left of the downtown district

that are in absolutely decrepit condition with the residential neighborhoods in even worse shape. The only active businesses to note were the occasional liquor store and maybe a Dollar General. I was so struck by the experience that I spent the rest of the night researching the downfall of this town. Since the town's initial chartering in 1818, it has seen so much economical, cultural, and military importance just to end up being akin to the worst areas of Detroit or Gary, Indiana. I would love for you and your team to do a deep dive into the town's story for all to hear. Also, if this were to ever happen to be read on air, please

give a shout out to my friend Christian for turning me on to the podcast and giving us another reason to chat after moving apart. Give Bojangles some scratches, play some Triple M, and get freaky with Lucifina, yours truly Nathan B. Yeah, great suggestion Nathan. Thanks for sending it in to Bojangles at timesuckpodcast.com and thank you for the kind words. Yeah, I suggestion, Nathan. Thanks for sending it in to Bojangles at TimeSuckPodcast.com. And thank you for the kind words. Yeah, I feel like we might have to do at least a short suck on Cairo one of these days. It is such an interesting example of what the life arc of a small city can look like.

Every town has a story, but some stories so much more dramatic than others. And thank you, Christian, for sending Nathan into this strange little world here. Glad you too can stay in touch. Next up in Bear a Sucker, Ian Young writes in with the subject line of you or I or I guess I finally got me. Ian writes, God damn it Dan. I'm a big fan of Time Suck. Try to spend this try to spread this suck as much as I can to family, friends, co-workers, etc. Recently I decided that I would introduce my daughter, who's 11, my ex-wife

and her fiance, to the suck on the way home from a football game for which my daughter was a cheerleader. Trying to keep things age-appropriate, I opted to use one of my favorite sucks, the great emu war. See attached picture, no I love the shirt. As a tool for introduction, all excited for my family to finally share in the suck, I started up and get ready for an awesome ride home. It's right about here when things go terribly wrong, I completely forgot that during the announcements of that episode, you announced the hell yearbook tea

for Robert Ben Rhodes. I could feel my face going flush and getting hot as I frantically tried to shut off the podcast when my daughter, ex-wife and her fiance hear, "'You cannot attain sexual ascension without its slave. "'Incuist commands you to wear it over some nipple rings connected to a car battery. To say that my ex was unimpressed is an understatement. Fucking great.

All these years of listening to Time Suck and I don't just get cum and slawed, I do it to myself. As I now imagine that it will be years before I try to introduce my daughter to Time Suck again, I will leave it to simply sharing the suck with adult family, friends, and some of my co-workers. I do want to say thank you, though, to you and the entire team for the many hours of enjoyment that you've brought me and the many that I've shared the suck with. I greatly appreciate how well researched and presented every topic is and how you encourage people to think critically about the

world around them. Lord knows we need more of that. You and the community you have built are an incredible bright spot in my life and I look forward to every Thursday. There can be enough. There can never be enough. Chickateelo, chicken joe, dead giveaway or whippo in my life. Three out of five stars would not change a thing. Sorry, not sorry for the length of this email. Your loyal spaces are in safety, Smiley. PS, if you read this on the podcast, please give a shout out to my friend and super cop Steve P for introducing me to the suck. Man, Smiley, thank you for such a nice message. You seem like a wonderful soul. Yes, it is hard to find a truly safe episode to share with anyone. Not the best business model on my part, but it does make me laugh. And I do want to laugh as

much as possible during my rides around the sun. And yeah, thanks to super cop Steve P for keeping folks safe at work and warping minds by turning them towards the suck But not at work or maybe we'll also work and now just one more Literary sucker Caleb H writes in with the subject line of Saddam Hussein the romance novelist Hey, Dan in the bad magic family I was super excited when he I saw you were finally sucking Saddam Hussein couldn't wait for you to get to the period of His life of being a romance novelist However, I was shocked when the episode finished and he didn't mention it. I think his romance novels would have been a perfect fit for your podcast, but alas, but alas, excuse me, it was not meant to be.

Anyway, thank you for everything you do. Three out of five stars. Wouldn't change a thing. Except maybe more Saddam romance novelist references. Thank you again Caleb H. Well Caleb, I'm gonna try and fix it. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Yeah Saddam's romance novels they just weren't as smutty as I wanted them to be. They were actually allegories and they really sucked. But yes he did write a few books. His most famous is Zabiba and the King. Zabiba and the King is an allegorical love story between a mighty king Saddam, supposed to be Saddam, and a simple yet beautiful commoner named Zabiba, a symbolic of the Iraqi people. Zabiba is married to a cruel and

unloving husband, symbolic of the United States, who forces himself upon her against her will. The act of rape is compared to the United States invasion of Iraq. So here's an excerpt of Saddam's allegory, but it is kind of like a romance-y novel. After the king started frequently visiting the house of Zabiba, and after she started visiting him at his palace, and because of something that we shall hear later, it happened that the king fell in love with Zabiba, and that with great passion, in such a way as he had not loved any of his wives or concubines. When she walked, his heart was ready to burst out of his chest to catch up with her,

fall before her, and fly after her in order to find out where she was going and to serve as a bright lantern for her. But the king did not tell Zabiba of his love for her and tried to hire his attachment to her because he considered her one of the people and because his life was confined by the palace walls. The king did not ask her about her husband and did not feel jealous of him because the husband had a legal right to her. However, the king was jealous of the air and the water and even of every morsel of food

in her mouth. Yes, indeed, the king felt jealousy even the air and the water, and even of every morsel of food in her mouth. Yes, indeed, the king felt jealousy, even about the mouth of Zabiba. Is it not the mouth that attracts a man to a woman or repels him from her? Does not a clever woman use her mouth to seduce a man, to attract him and keep him? Does she not shade the imperfections of her mouth

to ensure that once a man comes close to it, he will not distance himself? Does she not suck his cock? Does she not stroke it in a semi-circular motion, just kind of grazing down the shaft and firing up the nerve endings and just pump it and pump it until he can come on her face? It's not not what a woman does with her man, is that? Okay, actually it's not nearly that juicy. he just goes on to talk about some more mal stuff that's not that sexy uh so yeah so that's that's that thanks for sending in the messages everybody and uh i hope you have a great great halloween

thanks time suckers i needed that we all. Thank you for listening to another Bad Magic Productions podcast. Scare to Death, Time Suck Keeper Week. Short Sucks Nightmare Fuel on Time Suck and Scare to Death podcast feeds some weeks. Please don't start killing witches this week. Just compliment them on their costumes. Give them some candy. And then keep on sucking. TARASA Ad Magic Productions For real though, I think we need to work on people saying Petty Witch, right? Let's get that out there. It's a nice twist on Petty Bitch.

Oh, don't feel like dressing up, going to a Halloween party because you're tired? Stop being such a Petty Witch! Go throw something on,ty Bitch. Oh don't feel like dressing up going to a Halloween party cuz you're tired. Stop being such a petty witch! Go throw something on Killjoy. Oh you're not talking to your sister cuz she forgot to text you on your birthday? Are you always such a petty ass witch? You left a bad review cuz you got one hair in your food. Cut the kitchen some slack you petty witch. Oh you don't want to fly around on a broom cuz you're afraid you'll get a splinter in your puss? Stop being such a petty ass witch! And get to flying.