Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 492 - The Moors Murders

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

From 1963 to 1965, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley carried out one of the most disturbing crime sprees in British history, abducting, torturing, and murdering children in and around Manchester before burying them out on the bleak, desolate moors. We break down the psychology, partnership, and pure moral rot behind the Moors Murders—and examine how two people fed each other’s darkness until it consumed innocent lives and horrified an entire nation.Merch and more: www.badmagicproductions.com Timesuck Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious PrivateFacebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch-related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard? Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast.Sign up through Patreon, and for $5 a month, you get access to the entire Secret Suck catalog (295 episodes) PLUS the entire catalog of Timesuck, AD FREE. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Remorse is just an illusion. Merely the whining of a cowardly soul. Too cowardly to stifle and kill it. If you have remorse for anything you do, do it again and again. And you'll see how easily you forget about your conscience. And anyway, who said that remorse is a crime? It simply shows a weak soul easily subdued. Crime is the most meaningless thing in the world, though sometimes necessary.

Those are the words of convicted British serial killer Ian Brady. Ian Brady and his lover and willing accomplice, Myra Henley were a British couple who committed the infamous Moors murders. From 1963 to 1965, they targeted children in the Manchester area. Myra, who previously was known for being really good with kids and worked as a trusted babysitter, lured her young victims into vehicles

and drove them out to the isolated Moorland or back to her house, where they were raped and murdered by Ian, and possibly by her as well. The disturbing couple kept momentum, of their crimes, including pornographic photos of at least one of their young victims. This week will uncover the infamous murders that shocked England and led the press to call Myra the most evil woman in Britain, and she wasn't half as bad as Ian. In another true crime, serial killing edition of TimeSuck.

This is Michael McDonald, and you're listening to TimeSuck. You're listening to TimeSuck. Well, happy Monday, and welcome or welcome back to the crime. Colt to the curious. Dan Cummins suck nasty, dirty fucking radical who wants horrible, stupid, evil anti-American commie things like, I don't know Americans, including the working middle class to not have to spend so much money on health care that they can never retire. And you're listening to TimeSuck.

Hail Nimrod, Hail Lucifina, Praise B to Good Boy Bojangles and Glory B to Triple M. One announcement, and then we are off. For all the true crime and just bad magic fans listen to this, I want to announce that I will be returning and bringing scared to death back to the Crime Wave cruise that Lindsay and I did last November. For those you who are there, the cruise will be in the Caribbean, February 8th through the 12th, 2027, just in time to get home for the Super Bowl. Details coming soon at crime wave at sea.com. And you get $100 off your stateroom and exclusive access to a private meet and greet with Lindsay and I only if you go to crimewave at sea.com slash scared. to get your discount code

on sale coming soon Friday, February the 13th, Friday the 13th 2026 at noon Eastern time Last year I was pretty reluctant to promote this because we hadn't done one yet Not with Crime Wave And I'm not really a cruise person But now maybe I am

It was so fun And so well produced, just so organized Brett and his team just fantastic I got to meet so many other cool creators Behind the Unexplained podcast True Crime Camfire Sinisterhood paranormal chicks. Last podcast on the left, Henry and Ed, those guys more.

Very excited to spend time with the no sleep podcast crew this next cruise after virtually meeting host David Cummings. I mean, we almost have the exact same name. So of course, we got along. Get $100 off your state room and a private meet and greet with us. If you go again to crime wave at c.com slash scared to get that discount code. On sale again begins Friday, February 13th, 2026, noon eastern time. Lindsay and I will be bringing another live scared of death to the cruise. Other creators will be having shows as well, and I'll try not to tear my calf again during any games.

But I will be competitive. Due to all the big shows that will be on the cruise, tickets are expected to sell fast. So don't wait if you want to hang out in the sun with us. And that's it. That's it for the announcements. Time to tell this fucked up story. No introduction really needed before beginning the timeline

of Myra Henley and Ian Brady. two of the most hated people in British history. I'll start with an overview of each of their early lives, followed by the story of how they met, how Ian indoctrinated Myra into his belief system, and then dig into how they committed the Moors murders before they are ultimately caught. Here we go.

Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time-suck timeline. Ian Brady was born January 2nd, 1938. in the Rotten Row Maternity Hospital in Glasgow, Scotland. How perfect. The future sadistic killer of children born in a place literally called Rotten Row. His birth name was Satan Be Evil. I mean, Ian Duncan Stewart.

He was both the son of 19-year-old Mac, or he was the son. He was both the son and daughter. He was the son of 19-year-old Maggie Peggy Stewart. Peggy was a waitress in a snuff room slash fuck dungeon or tea room or a tea. key room. How very UK? Ian's father, not named in sources, was a journalist who tragically died three months before he was born. He and Peggy had never married. After leaving the hospital, Peggy took Ian to the apartment. She shared with the friend, and then three months later, she placed an ad in the window of a local shop offering somebody a pound per week to take care of him. She was

struggling. That would be about a third of her weekly earnings, that pound per week. crazy that she was making only three pounds a week, equivalent to about 90 pounds a week today. A woman named Jeannie Sloan would answer the ad, and Peggy and Little Ian would move to the south side of Glasgow so Ian could stay with Jeannie and her family because Jeannie wouldn't just watch Ian, she would house Little Ian. Jeannie and her husband, John Sloan and two daughters,

Jean and May and their son Robert were all living there. They were glad to have the extra income as little as it was, and they made room for baby Eve. in their small tenement department. They never officially adopted him, but Ian will believe as a little kid that Jeannie and John were his parents. With her son's childcare and housing arranged,

Peggy was able to return to work full-time. She would send money to the Sloans for Ian's clothes and upkeep, visit him nearly every night after work, and take him out nearly every weekend. Some of Ian's favorite outings with his mom, he will later recall, will be visits to the cinema. He loved going to the movies. He recalled that the first movie he ever saw

was the road to Morocco. Despite her frequent moves over the years, Peggy never lost contact with her son, and she stayed close with Ian, even though young Ian again considered the Sloanes his mom and dad and called Peggy by her first name. It would be years before Ian officially learned that the Sloans were not his biological parents,

although he suspected it for a long time. Seems like the Sloans treated Ian well, very well, in fact. No allegations of abuse and a lot of love. Ian later recalled receiving less attention after the Sloan's fourth child John was born, but only because there was a new baby in the house. He claimed this had no effect on him, saying, I was popular at school, and so I was hardly liked to have feelings of inferiority, but of course I still wanted to be accepted and loved by those I love. Ian had a pretty intense experience with a violent death as a young child on August 14th, 1942, when he was just four years old. His first experience of death, he was playing a game with his friends called Catch a Hudgee.

which involved finding a kid named Hudgee, calling him Pudgy, then setting him on fire and watching him die while you laughed and pointed at him. I don't remember playing that game myself. That, of course, is not how the game was played. No, the game involved jumping onto the back of a van or a truck and holding on as long as possible. Sounds pretty dangerous than it was. And one boy learned the hardest way when he jumped but slipped

and then rolled under the wheels of a truck that was following the van. Ian later recalled as an adult running around the adults, who had gathered the scene to get a look at what happened, but all he could see was the child's shoe filled with blood. Also recalled an incident from his childhood where he was playing on a swing and the back of the wooden seat hit a small kid walking by,

a toddler perhaps that the boy started bleeding profusely from a head wound and instead of helping him, Ian ran off in a panic. He assumed he killed a boy, although there are no records to verify a boy that age or young age died in that area at that time. But what did make him, you know, did maybe assuming that he had killed this kid knowing that he could have helped him but did not do to his development. Because he will get pretty fucking weird, pretty early on in life.

Around 1944, when Ian would have been six, Peggy met a man named Peter, was presented with the opportunity to move to Australia for just 10 pounds under some new government program. A couple asked Ian if he would like to join them and go to Australia, but he said he didn't want to leave the Sloans. Of course not. There is adopted family, even if it's not official. Peggy refused to leave Ian behind, and Peter eventually moved on without them. Interestingly, by this time, young Ian had already started to experiment with committing petty crimes. For example, he stole money from Mrs. Sloan's purse and hid it in a mouse hole in the house.

That's actually kind of cute for a little crime. He also developed other more concerning behaviors, though, such as cruelly experimenting on animals and insects. You know, for example, he would cut open caterpillars with razor blades to see if they bled on its own you know if he had moved on from that pretty quickly i don't think that's uh that unusual uh what was unusual was him enclosing cats and cairns these piles of stones basically to see how long it would take them to starve to death so that's concerning that's pretty concerning uh doesn't get caught for that and as is too often the case since he doesn't get punished since there's no intervention uh the behavior gets worse family got a dog they named sheila it would die

within the year. He didn't kill that animal though. No, he actually loved it. He actually would love dogs throughout his life and be quite gentle and affectionate towards them. But this particular dog got sick. He wanted to go to the movies one day and he wrapped her up and left her by the fire to keep her warm. He prayed that his dog would recover, prayed to God. But then when he comes back, the dog is dead from the viral infection distemper. And at that moment, he felt hate for religion and all it stood for. He was furious with God for allowing his sweet pet to die. And then when he recovered from his anger, he later said he felt unbound, no longer confined to man's morals and laws. He said that since he no longer believed in God in the afterlife, since

he no longer was concerned about divine judgment, he began to internally question everything. You know, what really was right? What really was wrong? What did it all matter? Also around this time, Ian's social life takes a turn. Despite Ian later becoming quite popular with his peers later in life, as a young kid, he got teased because he was tall and thin for his age, and the other boys called him the big lassie. He did have a small group of friends, but didn't treat them too well. His best friend John Cameron from this time later recalled Ian once tying him up to a steel washing post, piling some paper up at his feet and then lighting on fire.

According to Cameron, quote, people tell me that by the time I was cut free, I'd blacked out. Mind you, we were all rough lads in those days, but Ian was the roughest of the lot. Yeah, early on, Ian could be sadistic And seemed to have a rage brewing inside of him In late 1947, when he was almost 10, his bio-mom, Peggy began dating an Irishman named Patrick Brady From whom Ian would get his last name.

Patrick moved to Manchester for work in 1949, Peggy followed, And they married in May of 1950. Ian committed his first breaking shortly after his mom started to see Patrick, broke into a ground floor apartment, still nothing. Could be coincidental the timing. He could be jealous of this guy's, you know, involvement in his mom's life, even though he doesn't for sure know that this is his mom yet. Not long after that, Ian and five friends formed a little gang, committed additional break-ins for small amounts of cash. 1950, now 12-year-old Ian passed an exam that qualified him for a special school for above-average kids, although other school records listed him as being slightly below average in intelligence. maybe he was smart I think he was

pretty smart as a kid I'm guessing but bored and didn't care about some of his schoolwork not uncommon Ian's girlfriend Evelyn his first girlfriend

attended the same academy despite the students being separated by gender they would still find time to see each other often at the new school Ian picked up a habit of smoking also enjoyed watching

horror films so much so it earned him the nickname of Dracula Ian didn't quite fit in with the other boys at the academy he didn't like football preferred to spend free time reading or watching movies and, you know, also when he was reading, he was reading

weird shit now. One classmate recalled that Ian, quote, read all kinds of books about the Nazis, and never stopped talking about them. Even when we were playing war games, he made a great point of being a German. When Ian used to shout Sig Heil and give the Nazi salute, people would laugh. But Ian wasn't kidding. He was developing a very hate-filled, disturbing inner life. He didn't see the Nazis as bad guys. He saw them as guys who just kind of fucking got it, right? Understood that, you know, shit like the Holocaust just doesn't matter in his mind. 1950 was also the year. Ian was first caught breaking and entering. Ian and his gang had been breaking into three properties a night and distributing their stolen goods between them. They were

showing off their hall at school when another student reported them. Thirteen-year-old Ian appeared at the juvenile court in Glasgow, May 5, 1951, was charged with housebreaking and attempted theft. He and his friends were all found guilty, but because they had no prior convictions, they only received two years probation. And now shit gets real crazy with Ian. He's only 13. And the beginnings of his sexual sadism directed towards humans are seen now. Ian said that he decided to get revenge on the boy who informed on them. And holy shit, did he go fucking hard when it came to revenge? He claimed that he raped the student when they were alone after a PE class. My God. Don't have proof he did this but this guy was not prone to hyperbole.

Odds are, this kid, thanks to the shame and stigma, would not have reported this incident. And imagine being that kid. You let the adults know that some kids stole stuff, you know, something that you're told was the right thing to do. And then one of those kids catches up with you and you're probably worried he's going to beat your ass. And then he literally fucks your ass instead.

That's going to mess your head up. Ian was caught stealing again in July of 1952 when he was 14 while he was still on probation. One of the newest gang recruits had taken a stolen razor home, hit it in a chair cushion. Boy's dad found it. One of he caught himself when he found it, made him confess.

And then he gave everyone's names to the police. Ian appeared in court on July 16th was only admonished no incarceration. He got lucky, and his gang buddy did too because Ian apparently did not rape him for that. Around this time, Ian started seeing a new girl. He was still dating Evelyn, but she wouldn't have sex with him.

This new girl would. Ian said that he and this unnamed girlfriend would occasionally, quote, mutually seduce a boy or girl to deepen intrigue that began when they confided to each other their early forbidden longings for irregular sex. According to C.G.C. Cook, author of the book, The Moore's Murderers, or excuse me, the Moore's Murderers, the full story of Ian Braden and Myra Hinley. Man, group sex is a young teen in the 1950s. He truly didn't give a shit about social norms or conventions. Ian left school for good in 1953 when he was just 15, started working as an errand boy for a butcher in Glasgow. A butcher, right? Perfect. But he loved chopping up flesh. He'll stay with the company until January of 1954, commit more burglaries the entire time.

He used the job to find vulnerable properties to break into around the city somehow. He was still dating Evelyn around the time this time, but soon met another young girl during work. Evelyn found out that Ian was having sex with this girl, and they finally break up. And lucky Evelyn. After leaving his job at the butcher's shop, shortly after turning 16, he spent a week as an engine cleaner for British railways,

but once his background check was completed, he was fired due to his criminal record. Ian now went most of the rest of the year without a job, but then was hired by some shipbuilders in September. But then he was back in court, just two months after that.

November, charged with housebreaking, Ian was found guilty and had nine other cases of housebreaking taken into consideration regarding his sentence, He was given another two years probation with the provision that he leave town and move in with his birth mother and stepfather in Manchester. Glasgow wanted him to get the fuck out, and he did. After Ian moved in with Peggy, she finally officially confirmed his long-held suspicions that she was his birth mother, and now Ian took Patrick Brady's last name.

Patrick will get Ian a job as a porter at the Smithfield Market, where his main duty will be unloading crates from delivery trucks. He'll seem to get along very well with his mom and stepdad for the rest of the rest of. of his free life. After moving in with them, he gets to reinvent himself. Become something of a, quote, heartthrob amongst a group of local teens in Manchester. Known for dressing up sharp when he goes out at night, really making sure he always looks stylish. He also, unbeknownst to many of his new friends, is bisexual and starts sneaking into Manchester's gay pubs and fooling around.

In June of 195, Ian's back in court again. This time, for being drunk and disorderly, he's fined one pound. A few months later in September, found guilty of petty larcency as petty larceny as a servant for stealing from his employer. A delivery driver had told Ian there was a sack of lead seals in a warehouse. He wanted Ian to load it onto his truck so he could sell it. He promised to split the proceeds. The driver was then apprehended and pled guilty. He was only given a fine because he had a family to take care of.

Ian assumed he would also get a fine and he initially pled guilty to the charge. But then he changed his mind, said he wanted to go to trial. and was remanded back into custody. However, the court would now not be back in session for three months. So Ian had to wait in prison during that time. Because he had already pled guilty, he was not allowed any privileges and treated as a regular convicted prisoner. And he later recalled that at the prison,

he was given his own cell and his job was shoveling fuel into the furnaces. He had a lot of time to sit around and think, and he decided that when he got out of prison, he was going to get rich without working. Instead of thinking he was done with crime, instead of thinking like, I got to change my ways. He was like, I need to double down and you get better at it. He connected with some safe crackers and fences he met in prison, making mental notes on how they operated.

And to help pass the time also learn the basics of accounting and bookmaking. After the three months of waiting was over, he got his trial, didn't go as well as he had hoped. He was sentenced on November 9, 1955, refused to offer any words of contrition and found guilty or contrition and found guilty of petty larceny and ordered to undergo Borstal training. He was put in prison until a place could be found for him at a Borstal. And a Borstal was a youth detention center in the UK in those days, originally designed for offenders under the age of 21, and then the maximum age increased at 23 until these kind of places were discontinued.

He would later say of his feelings about his sentencing, quote, I vowed vengeance and that I would never again take risks for anything trivial. I said to myself that if they wanted me to be a criminal, I'll be a proper one. right and here we go this deflecting responsibility almost always occurs with these uh with these types right they wanted him to be a criminal no you chose to be a criminal according to a psychiatric report quote he felt that this was a time of deep crisis in his life and that in some way a decision had been made he felt increasingly cut off from other people in the emotional sense he could no longer feel concerned for them

or feel warmly towards him right so he's a sociopath uh he retained affection for his foster family though interesting January of 1956, Ian was transported to Lachmere House in Greater London, a former P.O.W camp for Germans. He probably loved that his fucking Nazi buddies have been there. Supervisors there noted that Ian showed signs of above-average intelligence. He was eventually sent to Hatfield, a men's prison, and young offenders institution in South Yorkshire.

At Hatfield, Ian worked in the kitchens, in his new position allowed him to make some hooch, some prison wine, which he then sold inside of the prison, gave him a nice little stream of interest. income and clout. He actually made enough money selling the hooch that he started to have other prisoners hold on to some of the cash for him in case his cell ever got searched. With his new profits, he began running books on cards, dogs, and horse racing, also, quote, dealt with anybody who snitched, and I bet you can guess what he did to punish other people.

And Ian's words, quote, one was gang banged in a dark field and fled from the camp that same night. What the fuck? He fucking loved to rape people at a young age. What a wild punishment for snitching. One fellow inmate later remembered Ian as, quote, a very quiet sort of fellow, but sadistic. If we were wrestling, it would start as a joke and end up with Brady putting his hands around his opponent's throat and nearly choking them before he would let go. And we have no idea what made him like this. Right. So off with these guys, they were sexually victimized, you know, seriously physically abused, and then they become the victimizer later. It's kind of a

a power switch, power dynamic switch, but unless he took a secret to the grave regarding his own abuse, doesn't seem to be the case with Ian. He was released from prison, November 14th, 1957, returned to Manchester to live with mom and stepdad. Seems he kept in touch with the Sloans as well,

at least loosely. More determined than ever to make a living through crime. We all have goals, right? He spent hours watching banks and department stores now to learn where and when the large deposits were made, wrote everything down in a no-point. contacted some dudes he'd met in prison about a potential heist. Also reported to his probation officer every couple days.

He's supposed to be getting a job, but he would sabotage whatever job interviews were set up for him by the probation officer because he was not interested in the conventional job. He wanted to be a professional outlaw. After a few weeks of planning on one heist, he and his prison buddies did a net 250 pounds. So for a little while, he didn't really need a job. but as part of a probation, his probation, he had to at least appear to try and get one.

And in April of 1958, the now 20-year-old did get a job as a labor at a brewery, but then got fired two months later for being drunk and disorderly on site. Right? Perfect. Eight months after that, February of 1959, he gets another job as a stock clerk at Millward's Merchandise Limited, a company that supplied heavy chemicals primarily to the cotton industry. and he used his new salary there to buy naturally, as one does, records of German marching songs, Hitler's speeches, and the Nuremberg trials. Right? Not concerning at all.

He apparently enjoyed playing these records at full volume, greatly disturbing his neighbors. So he's a really fun guy. He's a true delight to be around. One of Ian's neighbors at this time, a man named James Spilsbury later recalled, the marching songs were bad enough. But what really got me was hearing the Nazi leaders screaming at their troops. I thought Brady must be a very peculiar chap.

But he was always so quiet on the street. He rarely spoke to anyone and acted as though he was too good to live in the neighborhood. I had to live next door to that guy. The guy blasting Nazi records. It's so fucking weird. But what can you do about it? It's not illegal, right? Unless like the volume, maybe like disturbing the piece.

But how concerned are you about your neighbor if they're fucking blasting Hitler speeches? Okay. Now that we've covered Ian's life up to early adulthood, let's meet his future fucked up partner and child murder, Myra Henley. Right after today's first two mid-show sponsor breaks. If you don't want to hear these ads ever again, please sign up to be a space lizard on Patreon.

Help us make monthly charitable contributions. Get the catalog ad free, the old secret suck episodes, uh, and more. Thank you for listening to our sponsors. Hope you heard a deal that makes sense for you. And now let's meet Ian's future partner in child murder,

Myra Henley. Myra Henley was born in Manchester, England, July 23rd, 1942. So four years younger than Ian. Her mom, Nellie, was a 22-year-old factory machinist, and Myra's dad, Bob, was previously a laborer before he got drafted to serve as a paratrooper in World War II. Nellie brought Myra to the home she shared with her brother, Bert, his wife, and Myra's grandmother, Ellen. Although he wasn't a home at the time, Bob insisted that Myra be baptized as a Catholic at St. Francis Monastery. Nellie was not religious, but she agreed so long as Bob accepted that Myra would not attend Catholic school. Myra was baptized August 16, 1942.

Bob returned home from the war in 1945 and apparently was a different man after the horrors in combat he had witnessed. Still, the couple stayed together. He returned to his labor job and the family moved to their own house around the corner from Grandma Ellen. Author C.G.C. Cook describes the terrible conditions of Myra's childhood home in his book saying, the house had electricity and a tiled fireplace, but was otherwise in a shocking state. It was a two-up and two-down property with cockroaches in most rooms. One of the two rooms on the ground floor, the front room opened up to the street, and the rear room opened up to the yard with a damp toilet.

The house was in such a poor state of repair that the back bedroom, which was Myras, had been condemned before they moved in. The ceiling leaked and the floorboards were unsafe to walk on. So Myra had to sleep in the same room as her. parents. Myra hated her new home, felt anger towards her dad. She later recalled, quote, I hated him, her dad, for forcing us to move away from grants, having to listen to him snoring and blowing off with a nightmare. Myra's younger sister, Marine, was born August 21, 1946, when Myra was four. Marine cried often, which stressed out Nellie and led her to frequently

shouting at little Myra. Meanwhile, Bob spent a lot of his free time at the local pubs where he was a fucking problem. Many nights a neighbor would burst into the home to tell Nellie that Bob was fighting again and it would be best if she could bring him home. Nellie eventually grew so tired of that she refused to go get him. Sometimes she said Maira though. Bob was not only violent at the pubs, he was violent at home too. Nellie and Bob would fight over the money. He spent at the pubs and Bob would take his anger out on Nellie with his fists. He would also hit Myra, as did Nellie, it seems. All kinds of violence going on in the house. Patricia Cairns, Myra's future prison girlfriend, recall that Myra told her about her childhood.

Her mom was cruel to her when she was little. She didn't protect her and beat her herself. She hit her about the head. I remember Myra telling me that she made her ears bleed. It's fucking wild to hit a little kid so hard you make their ears bleed. Myra claimed that her parents never hit Marine, though, because, quote, she was a lot softer and frankly not as intelligent. Myra was eventually sent to live with her grandmother, Ellen, because of her misbehaving ways.

You know, you'd think that she would be relieved, right? She would still come home for meals, also visit to play with Marine and do her chores, but would sleep at Ellen's. According to getting to Patricia Cairns, she always said in public that being sent to live with her grand was a good thing. While she was happy to criticize her father, she did not want to upset her mother.

In reality, it was the most hurtful thing that could have happened to her. It was the first time in her life that she was made to feel the outsider. That lasted for the rest of her life. Okay, interesting observation. right? She's the only one in the family. He gets sent over to Grans. Around 1950, when Myra's eight, her dad teaches her how to throw a punch so she can stick up for herself. And teaching an eight-year-old how to box, neighborhood must have been a little rough.

Myra would use those boxing lessons several times, starting with against a boy named Kenny Holden after he scratched her face. He was upset about this, or she was, sorry, as she ran home to tell her dad what happened, and then her dad, Bob, ordered her to, quote, go and punch him. if you don't, I'll leather you. It's either him or you. Holy shit. Well, my ever ran that kid down. Found Kenny walking down the street,

punched him in the fucking head. He threw his hands up then to defend his head for more punches. Now she punched him in the stomach. And then punched him hard enough that he threw his hands down there and then she punched him in the head again. She's pretty proud of herself later saying, I stood looking down at him triumphantly. At eight years old, I'd scored my first victory.

And you know what? That's pretty badass, actually. honestly wish I had a childhood memory of beating some bullies ass like that. Bob was clearly a tough love parent so much so that Myra was shocked whenever he displayed affection. Myra recalled and on one occasion, quote, I was standing in front of the fire of my nighty. And dad picked me up and sat me on his lap. He suddenly kissed my forehead. I was so shocked it made me jump.

And I knocked the cigarette out of his hand. It burnt my shoulder and I ran out of the house screaming that he had burnt me with the end. Poor man, he was only trying to be nice. to me which wasn't often and I accused him at child abuse. Ma'am had a go at him for hurting me so he gave her and me a beaten for causing such a fuss. For fuck's sake. The way people fucking live back then. I guess the way some people live now.

This is insane. Myra herself said that a rough childhood helped her develop, quote, a strength of character that protected me from a lot of emotional harm. From a very early age, I learned to keep emotions under control to refuse to cry when being chastised except in the privacy of my bedroom at Grand's house. To never let my feeling show to build up layers of protective buffers, to ramble rage, cry, and grief inwardly. And that is not healthy. All right.

She stuffed down a lot of rage and it seems to have come up in some pretty fucked up ways later. Growing up, Myra was mischievous. Not surprisingly, rough and tumble. She enjoyed wrestling with the boys, playing football with the boys. Also, like Ian, she began to commit petty crimes in her childhood. her crimes began around 1952 when she was 10 her reasoning for the crimes was different though

wasn't based mostly in cruelty or being adverse to a straight job for example she once stole coal from the railway for her grandma Ellen she got caught by an officer who took her home to confront her guardian Ellen promised the officer she's going to do something about it but when the officer left she told Myra just be more careful going forward

right Nana needed that fucking coal house is cold so Myra sounds like she grew up in a lot more poverty than Ian did Although she didn't do well on standardized tests, she was an intelligent student with an above-average IQ of 109 loved English and poetry above other subjects. Also a talented athlete. She participated in the school rounders team

as well as a netball tennis and swimming and even practiced judo. She was liked by many of her teachers and teammates, but disliked by some of her classmates. She skipped school often even though she enjoyed school. She'd tell her mom or grandma that she was having headaches or the flu or bad cramps or something. They were willing to write notes at first,

but when they suspected she was faking it, they would send her to school, and then after that she started to write her own notes. She and her best friend Pat Jepson would then go to the park, wait until they were sure Nellie was gone for the day, then sneak back into Myra's house. According to Pat, we didn't have television in those days. We got rid of our energy by playing a lot of running games.

It was good, clean fun. I don't ever remember Myra crying or being a bad sport. Myra would not let herself be pushed, around by any of the boys. She was so tough she frightened some of them off. She would batter them in playground fights. She was so much a tomboy I sometimes thought she wanted to be a boy. On the other hand, she was in the top class for five years. She was very intelligent and could hold her own in any subject. Right? So interesting kids, she could have done something cool with her life. Myra also very protective of her younger sister, Maureen, would beat up anybody who called her

names. Myra later recalled about this time in her life, quote, I felt like I was a fish out of water at first. All the other kids seemed to have big smart houses and smart clothes, but I still lived in the same house with the loo down in the backyard. This had quite an effect on me at the time, and I remember thinking one day I'll have all of that. Myra and her friend Pat would sometimes babysit for neighbors and family friends for a little extra money. Myra was known for being really good with kids, a trait she would later use disgustingly to lure rape and murder victims. A neighbor named Mrs. Phillips later recalled of her and Pat. They were a grand pair of They were off and around the house drinking tea, talking about clothes and boys.

They never used to take a penny for babysitting. They wouldn't hear of it. But I used to take the two of them to the pictures now and again as a treat. So I guess they didn't charge her. Another one of Myra's friends was a small boy named Michael Higgins, who Myra protected from bullies. They also got into a bit of mischief every now and again. With their other friend, Eddie Hogan, they'd walk into a candy shop with a little bit of a criminal plan. Myra would go in first, buy some candy.

talk to the shopkeeper, while the other two would load their pockets up with candy and runoff, and then they'd meet up somewhere and split the hall. Myra also remembered stealing other small items, such as potatoes and Christmas cards from various places. She experienced the death of someone close to her for the first time, June 14th, 1957 when she was 15. Some kid from the neighborhood named Michael had invited Myra to go with him, Eddie, and a boy named Walter King to a local reservoir for a swim. She had plans with her best friend, Pat, so she said, No, and that decision might have saved her life. The boys went swimming and tragically Michael drowned.

Myra, a strong swimmer, felt guilty and believed she could have saved Michael's life if she would have been there. She and Pat ran to the reservoir upon hearing the news arrived just as authorities were pulling Michael's dead blue body out of the water. An inquest determined Michael had died after getting a cramp in the cold water. Myra couldn't bear to go to his funeral, but she did attend the Requiem Mass in Michael's honor and she started going to church more often after that for a while she also ironically considering what she will do later became the go-to neighborhood babysit around this time neighbor joan phillips

recalled she was a real treat with the kids when she was about 15 she used to babysit a lot for us my husband used to say he liked mire to babysit because we could go out in peace knowing everything would be all right the boys loved her because she spoiled them she used to bring them chocolate let them stay up late, and when it was light in the evenings, she used to play football with them on the little bit of waste ground near the house. On November 16, 1958, 16-year-old Myra decided to become a practicing Catholic. She began taking classes and was given a prayer book by her aunt and uncle, who often took her to church growing up. After also graduating high school in 1958, she finished young. She got her first job as a junior clerk for an electrical engineering factory,

and then left that position in March, 1959. Myra, in her own work, words, quote, couldn't wait to leave school and start work. They were the happiest days of my life, except for those of my childhood, when I didn't have to go to school. I had a wide circle of friends with whom I went dancing, swimming, and roller skating, and also spent a lot of time in local libraries where I could browse and read and peace and quiet. No one at this point in Myra's life would ever suspect that she was capable of getting mixed up in what she will soon get mixed up in. mire was pleased when she soon passed a college suitability test

because she wanted to learn some secretarial skills get a higher paying job she occasionally worked evenings at a jam factory to make some extra money that actually sounds fucking delicious i love jam i'm going through some sugar deprivation while i'm record today going some going through some sugar withdrawals right now

that's probably a better way to put it trying to get healthier pretty wild how intense the cravings for anything sweet or carby can be i've been literally having dreams about mac and cheese Anyway, twice a week, jam sounds fucking incredible right now. Twice a week, she and Pat went dancing at the Alhambra ballroom. Love that she still buddies with Pat. According to Pat, Myra liked the dancing, but wasn't interested in a relationship with any of the men or boys at the dance hall because she's dating Ronnie.

When she was 16, Myra had started to date a boy named Ronnie Sinclair, a year older than her. Ronnie took her out to some different pubs for their first date. Afterwards, they grabbed a coffee, then Ronnie walked Myra home. Myra then took Ronnie into an alley Undid the top buttons of her blouse Wanted to fool around But Ronnie didn't want to go any further She was underage at the time

And he was a gentleman Ronnie and Myra continued to see each other When Myra wasn't hanging out with a friend Pat Around the time Myra's dad had an injury at work That forced him into an early retirement She will say in a 1995 interview

My father who was working on a building site broke his leg so badly That he was made disabled And quite soon after he had the first of his strokes For the first time in my life, I saw him almost helpless, unable to walk, sitting almost constantly in his armchair in the house or lying in his bed in the living room, and all of my fear of him left me.

In spite of all he'd done to make our family life unbearable, I felt sorry for him, compassionate and even tender toward him. I could never love him, but seeing this strong, brutal man reduced to the helplessness of a baby made me feel strong and almost maternal towards him. Myra will lose her job at the beginning of 1959. But then she will find a new job at a catering department, working on a food trolley every Saturday from 5 to 10 p.m.

After a couple weeks, Myra was asked to instead work in the beer cellar, and then she got another new job. By the end of March, she was working as a junior typist with a supply firm, also attending judo classes once a week. She's doing great. However, she did soon gain her reputation as somebody who was slow to release her judo holds,

and the other girls refused to participate with her. Sounds like the other girls couldn't fucking hang with her. Now when it came to fighting. She turned 17, July 23rd, 1959, and Ronnie Sinclair proposed, and she accepted. On paper, Ronnie was a fantastic match. He had a full-time job, and I knew that she would be expected to settle down and have children with him, but that wasn't what she wanted out of life. She wrote to the Guardian in December of 1995, I didn't have a grudge against society or a chip on my shoulder. The things I wanted in life were not unusual.

I got engaged at 17 to a boy I first met when I was 11 and pulled the ribbon out of my hair at the pictures. But when I began to witness many of my friends and neighbors, some of whom had to get married, having baby after baby, almost tied to the kitchen sink and struggling to make ends meet while their husbands went out every night drinking and betting away their wages, just as my father had done, I began to feel uncomfortable and restless. I wanted a career, to better myself, to travel and struggle to break free of the confines of what was expected of me. Although so much, although so much was unattainable, I still dreamed and made plans and kept everything to myself. I didn't want to leave home because I love my family, but I wanted more scope and space,

and they would think I was getting above myself if I confided in them. Right. As you can see, while Myra had a difficult upbringing, but the time she was 17, she was doing pretty well. She was happy, right? More or less, she was stable. She could have created a really good life herself and probably would have, but then she met Ian Brady, right?

She didn't want the trappings to her ever to do it. life and she could have, you know, figured out something. She could have met some other guy that wouldn't have given that, I'm sure. And she did meet a guy who wasn't interested in that, but the wrong guy. In a 1998 interview, she said about the years before she met Ian, I was an attractive, confident, and sociable teenager, never short of dates. I had a particularly close bond with five friends, and we went everywhere together, dancing, skating, swimming to newly open, sporting clubs and cabarets, shopping together for clothes when there

was bargains offered. Those were the happiest three years of my life. The only times I never felt imprisoned at school at home because of my father, and then I walked into Brady's prison. I mean, she pursued, as you'll see, Brady's prison pretty fucking hard. She could have walked away from Brady's prison many times, but didn't. And now we've reached the point in the timeline when Myra and Ian meet. If, I should warn you, if really descriptive scenes of sex with animals upset you. Sex with animals who often also get brutally killed, unfortunately. Scenes involving a man and a woman, for example, forcing dogs and cats to have sex with one another and with them. Seams involving multiple men and multiple women having sex not just with

dogs who they then beat to death with baseball bats, but also with parakeets, who they will literally tear the feathers off of before greasing them up, shoving them up their asses, then you're going to be fine. Because the rest of the rest of the rest of them, they're going to be fine. because the rest of this story, thank God, doesn't have that kind of shit in it. Phew. January 13th, 1961. Myra saw listing the paper for a typist position

at Millward's Merchandise Limited. Myra's friend Mary had previously worked there. Told her the pay was fair. Manager was a good man. Mary also mentioned, quote, a tall and good looking, very quiet and shy, smartly dressed, intriguing man who had appealed to her.

Oh, shit. Myra made a good impression in her interview, accepted the following job offer. The manager Tommy Craig introduced her to the rest of the staff, bringing her face to face for the first time with Ian Brady. Myra later said, I can only describe my reaction to him as an immediate and fatal attraction, although I had no inkling then of just how fatal it would turn out to be. She immediately noticed Ian's dark hair, deep blue eyes, and fresh complexion, and his well-manicured fingers that were in stark contrast to her. my boyfriends, which were always greasy. She said in a later interview, I'd always been a romantic dreamer,

falling in love with film stars. I was crazy about James Dean and Elvis, and had read and heard the phrase falling head over heels in love, but never thought it would happen to me. But as soon as Ian Brady looked at me and smiled shyly, that's exactly what happened.

Oh, fuck. Myra started working at Millward's Merchandise Limited three days later, earning 10 pounds a week, and she was pleased when she was told that she would often be taking dictation from Ian, who was a stock clerk. She was fucking pumped about this. But soon she'll be disappointed because Ian did not seem to notice her at all. She said he gave no indication that he noticed me, appearing to be the strong silent type.

I was determined I would make him notice me. And she became more obsessed with Ian or as she did. She realized unsurprisingly that she no longer wanted to be with Ronnie. Imagine being Ronnie. Imagine losing your fiancé to a sadistic child rape. and child killer. Guessing that would not be exactly amazing for your self-esteem. Myra ended her engagement to Ronald soon after her 19th birthday. Poor bastard then would call Myra every day at work for days and days

begging her to reconsider. Please come back, baby, I love you. She was so annoyed by this that eventually she asked her manager to tell Ronnie if he kept calling, she'd call the police on him. And Ronnie was devastated, of course, and destroyed every photo he had of Myra. Myra was now able to give her full attention to Ian, not that he seemed to care. She asked her coworkers for info about him, but nobody knew much about him. She was able to learn where he lived, though, so she started to take her infant cousin for walks

in the area hoping to accidentally bump into him. A little bit desperate. She's very desperate for him. After a few weeks with no luck, she's forced to switch gears. She started wearing a t-shirt to work now with the words, this pussy only gets wet for Ian Brady on it, with an arrow scribble on it, pointing down towards her hoo-ha, and she would wear nothing by. his t-shirt in high heels. Still didn't notice. Still didn't ask her out. So, she started showing up to work completely naked.

After getting a swat to get a tramp stamp and a neck tattoo that said Nazi sex slave property of Ian Brady. Still doesn't notice. Doesn't ask her out. So now she starts to openly masturbate while naked with a Hitler-shaped dildo. She called Mind-Twot-Furr, loudly moaning and screaming stuff like, fuck me, Ian, fuck me, break. Fuck me right now. Stick it anywhere you want.

fucking Nazi bitch. But he still doesn't ask her out. And that is when she finally learns that Ian had gone both blind and deaf. And boy, did she feel stupid. Everybody had to go laugh. No, being real now. Myra convinced a friend to go with her to a pub on Ian's street and hopes of finding him. She is fucking desperate to run into this guy.

They gave up a couple weeks later when it was obvious that Ian didn't frequent that particular pub. She hung out of this pub for a week just hoping he would show up. That's wild. Myra would tell a fellow inmate years later, my feelings for him range from loving him desperately to almost hating him, from the total despair and hopelessness of unrequited love to wild, passionate hopes and prayers that he would somehow begin to share and return my feelings for him. Ian would later explain his initial feelings for Myra as well, not as nicely.

He would say, Myra had been working in the office for several months, but she was simply the new typist as far as I was concerned. I paid no more attention to her than I did the rest of the females on the staff. that is to say very little. She worked in a small room close to mine. She typed the letters I dictated to her. I can't recall having any memorable conversations with her. It was a standard routine office dialogue.

A couple of colleagues told me that Myra had been asking questions about me. Her curiosity made me curt her with her. Much later, I was told that she had written down her feelings for me in her shorthand notebook. It was only Pyril Romantic Tosh. pure ill I'm probably not saying that quite right It's a rarely used word these days It means childish essentially

Dude was cold-blooded arrogant motherfucker Myra documented her fascination With Ian and her diary The following entries were published In Cook's book on the case 25 July 1961 Haven't spoken to him yet

27 July 1961 Spoken to him He smiles as though embarrassed I'm going to change You'll notice that in the way I write 30 July Ian and Graham, a colleague, are not interested in girls.

One, she still doesn't give up. One August. Ian's taking sly looks at me. Two August. Not sure if he likes me. They say he gambles on horses. Three August. Ian likes Boughtington's bitter beer.

Eight August. Gone off Ian a bit. My relator told a detective that she had gone off Ian because of an altercation she was involved at the office that caused Ian to stop talking to her. He insulted her and left her feeling humiliated, but she doesn't give up. The diary continues. 10 August, 1961, Tommy is scared of Ian. Okay. 11 August, been to friendship pub, not with Ian.

13 August. Wonder what misery will be like tomorrow. I look like a play. She hasn't quotes misery. 14 August, I love Ian all over again. He has a cold and I would love to mother him. Going to a club. 24 August.

I'm in a bad mood because he hasn't spoken to me. He still has not made any approach. 29 August. I hope Ian loves me and will marry me someday. What the fuck, Myra? This is pathetic. Anyone else wondering if she's attracted to him because of the shit her father, you know, did, like the way he was. Just an asshole, tough guy.

Somebody who basically ignored her, almost never showed her any affection. Myra later told a therapist that she would, quote, daydream about what life would be like with a man like Ian. He was so different to the man I'd known before. I wanted him badly. Some of my friends would feel this way about pop idols or film stars, but my idol was sitting in my office behind his desk. On September 20th, Myra wrote,

still hoping for date with Ian. October 13th, Ian hasn't spoken to me for several days. October 18th, Ian still ignores me, fed up. I still love him. Myra wrote on November 1st, months now since Ian and I spoke. November 6th, Ian still not speaking, I called him a big-headed pig. man, the devil did not drag Myra into what she will later do.

She fucking begged the devil to let her tag along for the ride. November 28th, she wrote, I've given up with Ian. He goes out of his way to annoy me. He insults me and deliberately walks in front of me. I've seen the other side of him and that convinces me that he is no good. Then December 2nd, she wrote, I hate Ian. He has killed all the love I had for him. If only she would listen to herself.

But instead, just two weeks later, December 15th, I'm in love with Ian all over again. Myra made one last attempt now at getting Ian to fall for her. She noticed that he always sat by himself at lunch and read. So she goes to the library, picks up the collected works of William Wordsworth, because she liked poetry, knew she could have a conversation about it. At lunch next day, she sat by the door to the yard where Ian was playing some chess.

He saw her book and he asked her if it was any good. Ian skimmed through it and said, you might give himself a copy. Myra almost, quote, died from bliss. At that moment, she wrote. A couple days later, she came to work with songs of innocence and experience. Ian read a few lines, asked her what type of music she enjoyed. Ian offered her his tape recorder, which he used to copy things from the library now.

And now Ian started to bring Myra some tapes to copy, mostly jazz and classical music. Myra still wasn't aware of Ian's other favorite genre, you know, German marching songs, Nazi speeches. Shortly before Christmas, 1961, the staff at Millwards went out for some lunchtime drinks, returned to the office drunk. Somebody put the recorder player on, and Ian started to dance with Myra. Myra later wrote, I thought I would die from being held in his arms,

even though he was a lousy dancer and trampled all over my feet. She was fucking obsessed with this guy. It's like stalker stuff. Ian asked to walk Myra home after the party, and once they reached her house, he asked her if she would go out with him later that evening.

Of course she said yes. They met at Three Arrow's Pub, marking the start of a pub crawl around Manchester. And then they kissed when Ian dropped Myra off later that night. Ian wanted to go inside, but she wouldn't let him since they were drunk. She didn't want things to go too far. Didn't want to ruin what she hoped would be much more than a one-night hookup. They stood outside kissing for a while. Myra will later recall that Ian kissed so hard it hurt. On December 22nd, Myra wrote in her diary, Eureka. Today we have our first date.

We are going to the cinema. It's like it's their first proper date. And before we find out how dating life began. Time for today's second and two Mitcho sponsor breaks. Thanks for listening to the sponsors. Hope you heard some deals you liked. Now let's return. Find out how Ian and Myra's first date went before they become an evil duo. They watched King of Kings. Mara was upset by the scene where Jesus gets nailed to the cross. Ian didn't understand that. Told her that the purpose of religion was, quote, to keep working people in their place. He believed religious people were weak. He knew about the death of Myra's friend Michael and he asked her, why God would let Michael drown, and she didn't have an answer. Myra later told a journalist, he scorned me for believing all that crap in the Bible, for going to church, mass, with his mumbo-jumbo and incense and confession. Myra and Ian soon went on another date, after that on Christmas Eve. And on their way home, they heard the bells signaling the call for a midnight mass. Myra offered to take him, but he refused to enter a Catholic church.

She did, however, persuade him to go into a Protestant church instead. But then after the service was over, he literally took a piss on the side of the the church, took a swig of whiskey from his flask, and said, that's what I think of Christianity. And that did not turn Myra off. It excited her. It was unlike anybody she had ever known. Myra invited Ian inside that night because her grandma, whom she was still living with, Ellen, is already asleep. They sit by the fire, drink two bottles of wine. They kiss. Ian bites her on the neck, according to Ian with the heady wine and the flush of a possible romance. We were sexually inventive through the small hours.

Myra said this was the night she lost her virginity. Ian later wrote, it was nearly eight in the morning when I put my clothes on, feeling invigorated in every sense, as invariably I did after a night of acrobatic fornication. Our farewells seemed tame and casual in the light of what had happened between us through the night. Myra later wrote that the first months of her relationship with Ian,

or of her first months, when I met Ian, I was 18 and a half. He was cultured, listened to classical music. He read classical literature. They were things that interested me too, but I had no one to share them with. And he was good looking. I was very impressionable. I thought I loved him, but I realized now with 20 years hindsight that I was infatuated

and that infatuation grew into an obsession. He was God. It was as if there was a part of me that didn't belong to me, that hadn't been there before, it wasn't there afterwards. I'm not saying that he took over my mind or anything or that I wasn't responsible for what I did, but I just couldn't say no to him. I got to say, I mean, you could have said no. say, though, I do find the candor of these two refreshing.

It doesn't make what they did less evil, but at least they didn't always pretend to be something they weren't. Myra will try and diminish her active role in the worst of what they did, though, but not Ian. Not once it was all over. On New Year's Eve, 1961, Myra told her sister Maureen that she and Ian were together as a couple now, like officially. They went to the movies again.

Myra brought Ian over to her parents' house to celebrate the New Year. Myra wrote in her diary, Dad and Eve. Ian spoke as if they'd known each other for years. Ian is so gentle he makes me want to cry. Myra's mother, however, strongly disliked Ian right from the start. She warned her daughter, no good can come of that Ian Brady, you know. What was she right about that? Myra wrote in her diary two days later that she hoped she and Ian would get married and live happily ever after.

Ian didn't feel the same. Later saying, I behaved as though nothing had occurred between us. This wasn't difficult. From my point of view, nothing had. Myra should accept that fact or find some loser in pastures new. She could do whatever she wanted, I intended to.

Again, he's a cold-blooded dude. Didn't he pretend to have normal human emotions or morals? Ian would now only go out with Myra on Saturday nights for a little while, rarely on weeknights. Meyer was afraid to do anything that might jeopardize the relationship, so she didn't ask what he was getting up to in his free time. She soon learned that Ian didn't believe in the concept of marriage and she resigned herself to this fact.

I clung to what little Ian offered me, for I simply could not envisage life without him anymore, even though I could hardly describe myself as happy or contented, she later wrote. Myra's friends noticed a change in her around this time. Eventually they stopped asking her to go out because she always told them no, just on the off chance that Ian might want to see her.

Ian, meanwhile, was spending his evenings planning robberies, listening to Nazi speeches like a fucking weirdo, or visiting gay bars in Manchester. He bought a motorcycle. Did he not realize that fucking the Nazis put homosexuals to death? He bought a motorcycle. Afterwards, he would unexpectedly show up at Myra's house with it, causing her to stay in every night.

In case again, he might stop by. Other times, he made arrangements to see here and then cancel with just no explanation. It just didn't show up. Closer Myra got to Ian, the more disconnected she became from friends, family, even her sister, Maureen. Myra Venchi started to absorb many of Ian's beliefs, including his opposition to marriage. Ian said about the stage of their relationship,

it was not master and slave. It was more like teacher and student. Bit by bit, we were moving towards an almost telepathic relationship. I was never conscious of having to exert myself to coerce Myra into accepting my belief and relativist morality. I erred my views for open discussion, nothing more. They were on the table to be rejected or accepted. Myra was very surprisingly in tune with me from the very beginning. she was as ruthless as I was. Right? That's an interesting observation.

She was as ruthless as I was. Ian showed her some books around this time, such as the carpetbaggers, which told of rape, incest, and pedophilia, he and Myra began to act out parts from books like this during sex now. Ian told Myra he admired Hitler, agreed with his views,

still didn't cause her to lose her to love for him. When they went out to pubs, Ian occasionally revealed sort of detail, tells about his past, like how he used to hurt animals, but then realized it was more pleasurable to hurt people, also told her about his time in prison, and still she stays and remains devoted. You can't say she didn't know what she was fucking getting into. Ian also gave Myra a copy of Marquis de Sade's biography to read, right, the infamous sadist. And now Myra accepts Ian's belief that she has no soul and that religion is meaningless.

Next, Ian eventually reveals that he is bisexual. and then he shares his violent sexual fantasies with her. Tells her he felt like he was looking in the mirror when he first read Desa. Myra recalled Ian took the lead most times. He enjoyed rough sex and light spankings became whippings. He excited me in a way no man had before. Right? She liked it. He thrilled her. Myra would sometimes have to get buzzed or drunk to enjoy what he enjoyed such as anal sex, but she did it.

He also would bite her before, during, and after sex. She didn't protest that. She liked that too. They sometimes viewed pornography together, real hardcore stuff. Myra denied that some of the porn was of children but author CGC Cook notes that due to the nature of their future crimes, that can't be ruled out. Probably did watch some fucking old child porn. Ian later suggested they make their own porn, and Myra agreed to that as well. She told her later longtime supporter, wealthy newspaper editor of the observer, David Astor.

He did many other things to me. such as forcing my mouth open and urinating in it, or urinating all over my body, in my ears, up my nose, everywhere he could think of. I was so humiliated. It's like fucking Albert Fish now. Wanted that piping hot apple cider. But she was also turned on by that.

And then she started to hurt people along with Ian. They started reading through court reports in the papers for cases involving cruelty to dogs because Ian loved dogs. At the time, the papers would publish the addresses of people, who committed crimes. And so Myra and Ian would go to the address, give the person, quote, what they deserved. Usually

a brick through the window, but sometimes, if they found that person walking about, the two of them would attack the person from behind and beat the shit out of them. Myra recalled one important aspect of our relationship was that we shared equally the ability to shut down our feelings and our emotions. Ian talked of controlling the subconscious

urges or presenting a cold exterior. This ability, plus the use of alcohol, influenced our sexual experience and would eventually influence everything in our lives. We had to be able to blend into our surroundings like chameleons to exist on two different planes, convincing others that we were normal, not capable of committing crimes. He taught me how to conquer my emotions to do things on autopilot and disregard the consequences. I was a willing apprentice.

Holy shit. He was a teacher, teacher in a fucking sociopathic sadism, teaching people how to slowly break down and suppress emotions like empathy, remorse, turn yourself into a cold, brutal machine capable of anything. Once Myra was fully indoctrinated into Ian's belief system, she saw an even darker side of him. According to Myra, one evening, she took a bottle of Ian's homemade wine to her house. The wine had a, quote, gritty sediment in it, and Ian told her it hadn't matured well. Myra got quite drunk and then couldn't remember the rest of the night. Most she just remembered pain and flashing lights.

Ian will later show her nude photos he took of her that night, which explained the flashing lights, and then he will admit that he anally raped her while she was semi-conscious. and that explained the pain. And he'll share all of that as if it's completely normal and acceptable. She got sick the following morning from being drugged, called out of work, went outside for some fresh air, tried to go for a bike ride, but crashed into the back of a bus. Luckily, was uninjured, able to walk back home.

When Ian came over that night to ask why she hadn't gone to work, she told him she was sick, and then he admitted he had drugged her with her grandma's sleeping pills. She demanded an explanation. Ian claimed his elderly dog was going blind, and he didn't want to take it to the vet to be put down. he wanted to do it himself so he dosed Myra with sleeping pills you know to get a feel for how many he would need to give to his dog he insisted he had no intention of killing him that's a fucking ridiculous thing to say to somebody

myra also claimed that Ian threatened to kill her grandma by pushing her down the stairs to make it look like an accident one morning not long after that Myra was unable to wake her grandma Ellen called a doctor and Ellen was in a drug sleep must have accidentally taken double her normal dose of sleeping pills the doctor thought but then Ian admitted he drugged her grandma. She stays with him. Myra asked him why he did this. Ian said that if he couldn't convince

Myra verbally that he was serious about murder, he'd have to show her by killing somebody in her family. Okay. Ian will later deny that that particular thing happened. He did say that at this point, he told Myra he wanted to commit a murder, though, that he asked Myra who she thought of as a special enemy. And she named her ex-boyfriend Ronnie Sinclair. Right. Fucking poor Ronnie! All that poor bastard did it seems like was lover.

She said she would feel nothing if somebody volunteered to remove him for good. And then around this time, Ian talks about a book called Compulsion, which tells the story of Leopold and Lowe. We covered their story in an earlier episode of Time Suck. Ian believed that the only way to commit the perfect murder was with proper planning. He said he wanted Myra to help him pick up a child. They didn't want to kill Ronnie.

Maybe he was worried that Ronnie was too close to them and that would help him get caught. Wanted to get a random kid. They would then drive his child out to the Moors up into the hills where he would rape and kill the child and then bury the body. Ian said they would need to plan extensively so they wouldn't get caught. And Myra still does not walk away. But now let's switch gears for a second. If highly descriptive passages of torturing the elderly upset you, stuff like breaking into

some old widow's house and cutting her arms and legs off and cauterizing the wounds with an iron, and then duct taping the legs to the shoulders but facing backwards and the arms to the hips also facing backwards. backwards, then insisting that the poor old woman try to scurry around like a crab while inviting neighborhood children to come over and piss on her. If that bothers you, then you shouldn't listen to podcasts where that kind of shit happens, not ever. That's fucking horrible. And luckily, I'm not going to do that here. No, sir. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. No, I just want to take a moment to describe one of the settings of this case, the Moorland of the British Isles, before we move forward.

A Moore is defined as attractive open peaty wasteland, often overgrown, often overgrown, with Heath, common in high latitudes, altitudes where drainage is poor. In the British Isles, Moorland essentially just describes undeveloped hilly areas. According to NASA, randomly, the North York Moors in Yorkshire, England is a place where time seems to stand still. Wide open, undulating hills interspersed with 18th century farmhouses, store thousands of years of peat beneath flowering heather, the open hills of Moorland landscapes inspired scenery in Wuthering Heights, and Jane Eyre by Emily and Charlotte Bronte.

Okay, now back to the story. So that's where they're going to spend a lot of time. It's going to be a big part of the story going forward, these moors. Myra, for the record, knew that Ian was being completely serious about killing a kid and having her help. This wasn't him trying to shock her with some outlandish but ultimately bullshit proposition. Now, this was the real deal. She will recall, one night he asked me if I wanted to see anyone I didn't like dead. I said, no, don't be silly.

Then one evening, and he had not been drinking, he told me he wanted to do a perfect murder and I was going to help him. quote, I knew by the time he began talking about the perfect murder I was going to help him that I had very little choice. Well, that's not true. You had all the choice, Myra. Soon after this, Myra went out drinking with her close friend May Hill. May told Myra that no one liked Ian and that Myra had a bad reputation now because of a relationship with him. At May's house, Myra wrote a letter stating that if anything happened to her, her body could be found on Saddleworth More. She told May not to read the letter but made her promise to take it to the police if she went missing. so, you know, she's scared on some level, clearly, and yet does not walk away from Ian, still excited to be on this dark ride.

Following weekend, Myra contacted May, took her letter back, claimed she thought she found a way out of her relationship. Myra responded to an ad for cafeteria and clerical workers for the Navy Army and Air Force Institutes. She traveled to London for her interview, was offered a two-year contract or contract in Germany. She got the job, even though she was covered in bruises caused by Ian, which she falsely claimed were from a bike crash. Ian was allegedly waiting for Myra when she returned from London. They went home. Ira told her family she was going to Germany. Ian then touched her shoulder and said, you still got two weeks to make your mind up. She could hear the threat in his voice, she said. She later claimed that she interpreted this as she believed that if she left, he would hurt her

family. So no, she couldn't take the job. Eh, I wonder about that. She could have told her family that he was fucking crazy. She could have told the police. You know, if anything happens to my family, this is the guy who did it. Here's what. he has done to me, and then she could have told Ian that she had told the police that. Was she worried about her family? Or was she worried about the shame that would come from admitting some of the things

she had chosen to do with Ian? Was she worried that he might share nude pics of her? What if he told others, you know, what they had done? After everybody had gone home and her grandma was in bed, Myra said that Ian beat her with a cane and raped her and warned her that if she ever tried to leave again, she'd be the sorriest person alive.

And that is fucking terrible. terrifying. But now I have a new question. If she was willing to go along with murder, the murder of a child, because she was afraid of Ian, why not be willing to kill Ian? Right? She's a tough lady, not afraid of violence. Why not go out, get a hold of a gun? Go out to the Moors with him under the pretense of a scout and location where they would kill a child, but then shoot him instead. How can you be willing to go along with the murder of an innocent child, but not be willing to kill the person who wants to kill the child? Obviously, it's so much easier for me to fucking speculate about all this than actually do what I'm suggesting. I just think it's funny what moral lines people will draw. And he will claim that this is bullshit, but she was a willing accomplice with all this. January of 1963, Ian and Myra were heading home on Ian's motorcycle after having a few drinks. Seems that they still enjoyed each other's company quite a bit.

They were overtaking a bus when it turned onto or into them. He swerved on the other side of the road, ran into a fence, coming to a stop near two police officers. He hit his head, went briefly unconscious, didn't realize he'd also hit a pedestrian. until the pedestrian got into the ambulance with him. Myra, somehow uninjured, and then they both get charged. January 9th, Myra is found guilty of aiding and abetting no L plates on a motorcycle,

and aiding and abetting access by passenger not qualified. She's fine two pounds for each charge. He received the same sentence plus five pounds for driving a motorcycle in a dangerous manner. Starting around May of 1963, Ian was spending most nights at Myra's house now. Her grandma Ellen would go to bed around 8 p.m., most evenings just to get the fuck away from Ian. She still hates him. Myra and Ian would drink until Ellen's sleeping pills kicked in, then get the camera out and film some fucking. Myra later admitted that they discussed raping and murdering children during sex,

saying sex with children was an interest he had that influenced his defending behavior. It was a sadistic trait gaining excitement from their suffering. And that is fucking dark, obviously. She denied sharing these fantasies with Ian, but admitted that it was part of their sex life. could you keep fucking somebody if they just wanted you to roll play some pedophilia man that would be a fucking this relationship is over so fast situation for me

Ian also brought out the idea of killing Ronnie Sinclair again claimed that Myra still wanted him dead Myra and Ian spent many evenings going out to the Moors Saddleworth in particular it was here that they discussed committing crimes Ian once followed Ronnie to establish his routine considered asking an acquaintance to commit a hit and run with a stolen car but that plan was never carried out

around the summer of 1963, Ian and Myra began to wonder if they should recruit Maureen's boyfriend David Smith into their crime schemes. Have him help them kill some kid. Myra strongly disliked David, though. Hated that he wanted to marry her sister. But Ian thought a marriage would be advantageous because then David would be around more and he still thought, yeah, this guy can help us. These two are so fucked up, both of them. Let's not meet David Smith. Future unwilling accomplice to one of their murders before returning to Ian and Myra's story and covering their most heinous

crimes. David was born in 1948 in Manchester, only child of John Smith and Joyce Hull. Joyce found it difficult to raise David on her own since John traveled often for work and he was legally adopted by his dad's parents in 1949. So raised by his grandparents and when he's older, he is told that his mom had died. He also had a fucked up childhood. I mean, not surprising. He's based on what you know already, began stealing coins from his grandpa at a young age and then his grandpa would beat him when he would discover the money. he was missing. At the age of seven, his biological dad started to visit him on Sundays. 1956, David learned that his mom wasn't actually dead. He was so angry. He fought his grandma.

She responded by whipping him with a strip of rubber. And from then on, he would call her Mrs. Smith. And then one night, not long after this, he's woken up by some shouting, some loud thuds. He crept down the stairs. He said, his grandpa beating his dad's ass with a fire poker. He's so much fucking drama on these families. Soon after that, dad got, uh, uh, uh, him out of bed the middle of the night and took him to his house where he would now live until he turned 17.

Now he's living with dad. Not long after going to live with dad, David noticed a neighbor girl named Pauline Reed. Pauline's a couple years older than David, lived two doors down. She worked with her dad as a trainee at a local bakery. And she would be a future victim of Myra

and Ian. She was eventually allowed to visit his grandma, or David was, eventually allowed to visit his grandmother again, some days after school. When he returned home, he'd frequently find himself locked out of his house because his dad was out.

Why did his dad not give him a spare key? Who fucking knows? So many ridiculous people in the story. When he would end up getting locked out, Pauline would sometimes be sent out by her mom to go sit with him. She'd bring him sandwiches and tea, very sweet. First, they'd just talked, but this graduated to handholding and then kissing.

Man, didn't know Pauline when he was a little kid. They dated. 1959, 11-year-old David was sexually assaulted by his landlady's nephew. So much shit going on. so many people in this. The nephew was visiting and allowed to stay in one of the bedrooms of the home that David and his dad rented since there were only two bedrooms. It was decided he would just share David's bet.

David's dad's a fucking idiot. Why would you ask your 11-year-old son to share a bed with a stranger? Another kid, but still. Not long after being raped on October 2nd, 1959, David's charged with wounding with intent to do previous bodily harm and is given conditional discharge for 12 months. Older boy called him a bastard. He got into an argument with one of the boys.

friends and when the boy's younger brother tried to intervene, things got physical and David stabbed him. The assault and no counting afterwards, I guess changed him, filled him with rage. Also at the age of only 11, David complained to his dad that he didn't have any clean shirts. His dad who was drunk, hit him with the dog chain, and then David responded by punching his father in the face. And then the two got into a full-on fight and David beat his dad's ass. How fucking tiny and weak is David's dad? Look, I'm not the toughest guy on earth. Far from it, actually. but I have yet to come across an 11-year-old whose ass I have not been 100% confident I can kick.

I mean, I guess now with all the MMA training, I mean, there's probably some 11-year-olds out in the world who could take me. But I feel like I could pick up and fucking yeat, just throw 99% of 11-year-olds just around the room. Just really fuck them up. And his dad had a chain when they fought. I mean, you give me a weapon? That 11-year-old, if they're unarmed, I'm going to fuck them up.

I'm going to throw it out there now. Any 11-year-old's listening, I'll fuck you up if you're trying to attack me. I probably won't. I probably won't, you know, want to hit you. But if you take it too far, if you take it too far, I might fuck you, I will win. Anyway, David's school headmaster

saw potential in him and got him involved in a boxing school and he won a bunch of matches, but then his grandma persuaded him to give it up by telling him about the permanent injuries that, you know, boxers sometimes suffered. August 1962, David is again charged with assault for fighting with another boy

during a cricket match, given two years probation, sent to a remand home, where he'll meet two brothers named Chris and Arthur Hamnet, who lived a few doors down from Myra Henley. At the age of 14, David started to date, and one of his girlfriends was Pauline Reed, that neighbor girl he'd kissed when they were little. The relationship only lasted a couple weeks. Nothing sexual happened between them. She'll come up later in the story, though. Again, another one of his girlfriends was named Gloria when she moved out of the area. David visited her on the back of his friend Sammy Jepson's motorcycle. cycle and Sammy was the brother of Myra's best friend, Pat. Yet another link to the killer.

Around this time that David developed a relationship with Maureenheim Henley, whom he knew from school. He was aware of Myra, didn't have much to do with her. Neither of their families approved of their relationship. Moraine's mother, Nellie, disliked David and David's father disliked women in general, apparently. The fuck is going on with David's dad. Dude got his ass beat by an old man with a fire poker, then got his ass beat by an 11-year-old, and hates women in general. I wonder if he had any redeeming qualities. David left school at the age of 15,

got involved with the Taylor Street gang, committed a bunch of break-ins and random thefts. July of 1963, charged with housebreaking and larceny, store breaking and larceny, three other offenses, and given two years probation. You can see why Ian thought he might be useful,

right? He wasn't some straight-a-o, good-duty two-shoes kind of kid. Let's now check back in with Myron, and David will become part of the story later on in the timeline. And July of 1963, Ian and Mira or Myra began actively scouting for victims now. That summer, they sat down, created a written plan outlining all the details they needed to consider to avoid getting caught, and they called it their master list.

And according to author CGC Cook, the master list would apply to any criminal activity ranging from theft to murder. There were very detailed cross-references, modifications, sub-procedures, and divvatures. and footnotes for each category of crime, making up a comprehensive list of detailed procedures to select them. Everything was transferred from one final list into, one final list with abbreviated code words. All other sheets of paper were torn up and burned. The list was kept in a locked area of a warehouse at Millwards.

Myra secured a vehicle to her friend Ben Boyce, whom she had babysat for. Set a payment, Ben let her borrow his black Ford Prefect van as needed. Myra didn't have a license yet, but she was taking driving lessons. Ian was pleased because now they had a vehicle that could not be linked to them. I mean, it could, but it would be harder. They would soon start using multiple vehicles, but all of them would be able to be linked to Myra in some way.

While they were scouting for victims, Ian would pick someone and tell Mara what he would like to do with, quote, it. Ugh. Just dehumanizing them, right? Just like his beloved Nazis did it so many people. Ian would also photograph kids from the van Like the fucking creepy was Myra admitted that they were now quote

Of one mind not troubled by our consciences So she's fully on board With just uh you know raping and killing some kid Not doing this to protect her family from Ian Ian still wanted to know if Myra would really be able to go through with murder So we sent her out on some trial runs According to Myra I was considered to be good with children

An excellent babysitter and able to put children at ease Could I therefore be considered capable of child abduction or violence towards children. Myra was never able to do it during any initial trial runs and would always tell Ian the area was too crowded, but that'll change. July 9, 1963, Myra and Ian finalized plans for their first abduction. They cleared out their respective homes of any incriminating evidence, packing it into suitcases.

They would drop off at the railroad station. More on exactly what was in those suitcases later. Myra knew that whoever they abducted would be murdered. Ian instructed her to, quote, pick up anyone you choose. It's of no consequence to me. An existential exercise of sheer willpower, a sacrifice. They're just doing this as a fucking game. Kind of.

Ian was very into the sexual side of this. Myra borrowed her friend Ben's van, July 10th. Borrow's the van again after work. She drives to Saddleworth Moore to find a spot where they can park without attracting attention. They choose Holland Brown-Nole is the spot where they'll bury the body. After dinner, they deposited the two suitcases full of shit. again, the contents of which will be revealed later at the left luggage section of Manchester Central Station. Their luggage ticket placed in Myra's prayer book.

Afterwards, they looked at a map of Manchester, chose Gorton as the neighborhood where they would abduct a child. Meyer was to drop Ian off at his mom's house, then choose a victim, and then Ian would follow them later on his motorcycle to the moor. If she hadn't taken a victim by 8 p.m., they were going to abandon the plan for the evening. The victim was to be no younger than 16 because Ian thought the police wouldn't search as hard for an older. routine as they would for a younger child. This is so premeditated. Myra was going to tell the victim that she had dropped an expensive glove up on Saddleworth Moore and needed their help finding it.

In exchange for their help, she'd give them some music records. Well, Myra did not pick a victim that evening, but two days later, July 12, 1963, they'd go out hunting again, and this time they'll find someone. Their victim will be 16-year-old Pauline Reed, right? The girl from David Smith's neighborhood, his former girlfriend. Pauline was known to be wary of strangers but not people she knew, and she had casually known Myra for many years. Pauline went to her friend Linda Bradshaw's house around 5 p.m. that afternoon to ask Linda if she'd like to go with her to a dance at the Railway Institute. Linda's mom would not allow her to go, though, because there would be alcohol for sale at the venue.

Pauline's friend Pat not allowed to go for the same reason, meaning she was going to be going alone. Pauline's mother Joan later recalled, Pauline was very upset. She didn't think she'd be able to go because I didn't want her to go on her own. Pauline convinced her mom know that she'd be all right because two friends might be going to the dance. Joan helped Pauling with her hair, gave her her favorite necklace to wear. Around the same time, Myra and Ian left work at Millwards. It spent most of the day at work planning the abduction and murder. Ian had dinner at his parents' house, left at 7.45 p.m., purposely asking for the time to establish an alibi.

Ian rode past Myra's house, saw the black fan was not outside, meaning she was out looking for a victim. however he then caught up with her in town and she was alone and he wasn't happy just before ian found her mara had seen a small girl walking towards her but she didn't stop the van or you know at the or she yeah myra didn't stop the van ian saw that got really mad flashed his headlights so mire would pull over and then he demanded an explanation and mirea told him that the girl uh she knew was eight-year-old marie ruck too risky she was too young he accepted that but warn mira do not let me down again uh they ended up hunting far past the 8 p.m. cutoff that they had agreed to. Meanwhile, this is so fucking crazy. They're

actually doing this. Meanwhile, Pauline Reed was walking to the dance alone that night. On her way there, she encountered a best friend Pat Cummings, who had decided to go to the movies with her friend Dorothy instead of going to the dance. They couldn't believe Pauline was going to go on their own, or on her own. So they followed her for about 100 yards and then saw her walk towards railway street. She was almost the end of the street when the girls decided to catch up with her, but then by the time they got there, she's gone. Myra had been parked near railway street, in an alley close by when Pauline walked towards her. Mara told a therapist years later,

I chose to pick Pauline up because it was an easy option, less chance of failure in someone who was known to me. If I could do this without conscience, I could do anything. Fuck. Again, not doing this to protect her family. She was, you know, curious, she was interested in, you know, what this could do for her transformation or some bullshit.

yet. Myra rolled down her window to get Pauline's attention, asked her where she was headed. Pauline said she was going to a dance. Myra offered her to give her ride. Pauline accepted. Of course she did, right. She felt safe. Knew both Myra and her sister Maureen. Myra asked Pauline, then if she wouldn't mind helping to look for her glove. She dropped, and Pauline was more than happy to help, especially when Myra offered to give her some records in return. Then the two of them drove roughly 40 minutes up to Saddleworth More. During the drive, Pauline asked Myra where her boyfriend was. Myra said, he was dealing with an emergency but would join them in the search shortly.

Ian was following on his motorcycle the whole time. It was almost sunset around 8.45 p.m. when they arrived at the Moira, Mara parked by Holland Brown-Nole, the predetermined crime seat. Myra waited a few minutes until Ian arrived, and the three of them got out under the pretense of looking for that glove. Pauline struggled to walk, the grassy terrain in her heels. Ian said in his recollection of the murder, as I approached the knoll, I walked further into the moor. Myra and I knew exactly where we were heading for.

We had rehearsed it. It was a place on the moor where we'd be out of sight from the road. I dawdled and pretended I was scrutinizing the grass closely to allow the girl and Myra to walk past me. Pauline's eyes were also focused on the ground. Myra furtively glanced to my direction and nodded. My God, that's signal. Ian grabbed Pauline from behind. Quote, she collapsed onto the ground and stared up at me.

I knelt down and said, don't make a noise and you'll be all right. It's pointless. Pauline pleaded with Myra to tell Ian to stop, but Myra snapped at her, just keep quiet. Pauline knew what was about to happen to her. She pleaded with Myra to tell Ian she was on her period in hopes that would stop him from raping her. According to Ian, Myra knelt on the grass to unbutton the girl's coat, disregarding her pleas. I was standing by this time and looked for any movement on the more. Myra forcibly undressed Pauline, and then they both participated in raping her, according to Ian.

Myra will later claim that she had stayed in the van while Ian and Pauline went out alone. on the moor. That 30 minutes later, Ian returned and brought Myra to Pauline's body that now she saw her clothing was in disarray and her throated him and cut. She said she returned to the van and Ian buried her body while she waited. In Ian's version, she claimed that after Pauline was raped,

Myra said something that made the girl realize they were going to kill her. He never forgot quote, the uncomprehending look of terror in the girl's eyes as her fate dawned upon her. He said that Pauline pleaded for her life and tried to run away, but Myra punched her in the face. According to Ian, quote, blood was streaming from her nose and had soaked the front of her dress her eyes were closed now she gasped for breath i instantaneously withdrew my sheath knife from my waist and knelt towards the girl to cut her throat my first attempt was not deep enough to sever the carotid artery my second attempt was blood gushed from her throat she was dead within seconds obviously i don't know either ian or myra or well they're dead now so i didn't know there before the night but i do believe ian's account more than myris i believe him because he's

he doesn't try and reduce his own culpability when talking about Myra's participation and he's matter of fact, you know, when he talks about doing disturbing shit himself. Fully admits he wanted to do it. Shows no remorse. Won't blame any of his actions in any way on Myra or anyone else.

Myra's accounts feel honest sometimes but other times I feel like her shame and concern over how she would be judged, which Ian didn't seem to care about at fucking all caused her to dilute her responsibility in all this. Myra helped him bury the body. according to Ian, and they focus on their next objective now,

getting rid of the evidence. They change into fresh clothes, bagged up their dirty clothes, and the spade they used. Meanwhile, Pauline's poor family is retracing her steps looking for, a man at the venue who knew Pauline's mom said he had not seen her ever show up to the dance. Myra and Ian were supposed to help her friend Ben tow his vehicle that night, and they showed up late, claiming they had trouble starting the van.

This is another part of their alibi story, meeting Ben. Myron Ian got home at 1 a.m. about the time, Pauline's family reported or missing. Referring to their master list, the couple then went about burning evidence and didn't finish until 3 a.m. Myra recalled, he had brought a bottle of drambui, a Scottish liquor, Scottish liqueur, to celebrate, and he sat down next to me on the setty, sipping his drink and saying that after all the years of dreaming of it, he'd actually done it. He'd committed the perfect murder. He put his arm round my shoulder and kissed me clumsily on the cheek, telling me it was all over now. I'd learn to live with it, and he'd try to control his temper and not hit me or hurt me.

I was so relieved I clung to him, still crying, and promised I'd do everything I could to cope with what had happened, and do my best not to antagonize him. In spite of what had happened, this new tenderness touched the core of my heart, and flooded it with all the love and emotions I'd filled for him for so long. This is such a fucked-up relationship. Such a weird mix of just tenderness and the most revolve, insulting cruelty. My relator told a prison therapist that they celebrated the murders with drinking and sex. She said, I would lay myself open to Ian in a physical demonstration of our unity. Ian and I became further bonded by the blood of our victims. She claimed, they're like Romeo and Juliet, but like in hell. Just like demons. She claimed she didn't get

any gratification directly from the murders, but did gain a sense of security in her romantic relationship with Ian from them. Following morning, they disposed the ashes from the fire scrubbed the motorcycle and van through the knife handle and ashes into the river. When they returned home, the police were in the area searching for Pauline. Ian moved on to planning the perfect robbery now. He realized he would need a gun, but he couldn't purchase one because of his criminal record. Myra was instructed to connect with George Clitherow, who worked at Millwards, was the president of the local gun club. George invited Myra to the club. She applied for a firearm certificate, which was granted on July 17th. Myra turned 21 on July 23rd,

1963. Her friend Ben gave her the old Ford van as a present, but he hadn't paid the taxes or insurance on it. She tried to use tax documents from some other vehicle for the van, but then got caught and was charged with deception, and she and Ben appeared in court. Weirdly, Myra told the court she was going on vacation to Scotland, would leave the van parked at her house until she had paid the necessary costs, even asked the police to keep an eye on it while she was gone. When she returned from her trip, a police officer named Norman Sutton showed up at her house. Myra described Sutton as the tallest, best-looking man she'd ever seen. He offered to buy the van from Myra because a friend of his needed it for his business.

She told him he could have it for free. Sutton insisted on pain but said he couldn't pay her while on duty and invited her to have a drink with him the following week. Myra agreed. What's happening here? She's so scared to Ian, why is she now, you know, going on a date with a cop? Or can be so scared of you. Things are just shifting. Ian found it hilarious that they used the van to commit murder.

and she was now going to sell it to a police officer. After selling the van to Sutton, Myra invited him into her house for another drink. Sutton asked Myra if her relationship with Ian was serious. She said, yeah, but she and Sutton had sex anyway that night. And then it made plans to see each other again. Okay? Meyer would eventually talk with Sutton about becoming a police officer.

Even went into the station to get an application, but then never completed the form. Ian was shocked by this at first, but then encouraged her to join the force, since it would make her even less of a suspect. Myra admitted her affair with Sutton to Ian, which didn't anger him at all, surprisingly. He continued going to bars without her some nights,

and Myra continued seeing Sutton on some nights as well. October of 1963, Myra then purchased a 22 rifle. That November, she passed her driving test after four attempts. All right. During the second week of November, sometime before the 10th in 1963, Ian walked in on Myra and Norman Sutton having sex.

And now he's upset. he didn't like seen it he threatened to kill him and sutton never retaliated because he was married didn't want the affair going public this doesn't seem to have any effect on ian and mira's relationship overall though the evening of november 10th ian and mira decided it's time to commit another murder right they had a little tiff you got a little uncomfortable you know ian walking in on fucking uh this guy norman knocking myra's back out but they can make it all better with just uh killing another kid uh they both agreed that they're going to put the perfect robbery on hold They both agreed that the next sacrifice should be picked up further away due to the Pauline Reed ongoing investigation.

They decided to go to the village of Ashton under Lynn, which was near Gordon, Manchester, and Saddleworth Moore. They went to the village to scope it out, decided they would return the following Saturday when the market was busy and likely full of kids. For fuck's sake, just so methodical. They also decided to be better to use a rental car in this instance. Although they planned to commit the murder on November 16th, an opportunity to kill a victim presented itself to the pair on. on November 15th. They didn't have the rental car yet. And Myra's full license had not come through.

I guess that was why they weren't able to get it until the 16th. But they went ahead anyway. Ian wanted to take a kid, bring the kid to the house, kill the kid, then take the body to the Moore in Myra's car. And that night, they went to the park and encountered seven-year-old Tommy Radigan. Initially, after getting caught, both Myra and Ian will deny abducting this boy. But many years later, after his death, or before his death, Ian will admit that they had a few close calls like this one.

Tommy was playing on the swings while he waited for his younger brothers to arrive He spotted Ian and Myra at the park Tommy later recalled I could see the top half of them Standing on the opposite side of the small boundary wall At the park as the man lit a cigarette And then held the flame to the woman's cigarette

Before he took a long look Across in my direction They both approached Tommy But Myra did most of the talking She asked if Tommy was waiting for his friends Tommy said he wasn't Myra then invited him to go home with him for a jam buddy, some kind of jam sandwich.

And then they would take him home afterwards. Tommy agreed and they started walking. As soon as they made their way towards Gorton, Tommy said he was wary of Ian who walked behind him with his head down. Later said that, once they got to the house, Myra asked Tommy if his mom would be angry with him for being out so late.

She and Ian then went into the kitchen together. Tommy could hear their voices, but not what was being said. He got nervous. Moments later, Myra brings him that jam and bread and said she would take him home once he was done eating. He could tell that Myra was nervous, and she went back to the kitchen after she set the plate town. Tommy now suddenly is overcome with a feeling of panic.

He has the urge to leave immediately, right? His survival instincts are kicking in. Myra checked on him again, asked if he was okay because he hadn't eaten his bread and jam yet, and Tommy said he needed a glass of water. And then he could hear her having a muffled conversation before she returned with the water. She goes back into the kitchen,

and Tommy's like, I got to get the fuck out of here. Try his to open the window, but it's stuck. Surge of adrenaline then gives him the strength to open it, but it opens with a loud bang now, alerting the couple in the kitchen. Tommy heard Myra shout, The little shits out the window. Tommy was almost out when he felt a hand-grab his foot.

Still, he managed to get free. Jump over a wall surrounding the property. Fucking takes off, narrowly escaping the most terrible fate. Pretty fucking impressive for a seven-year-old. If he's still alive today, I bet he thinks about this almost every single day. After that failed abduction, Ian and Myra go back to their original plan

about the rental car November 23rd, 1963. They go to the train station to deposit those two suitcases again in preparation for another murder. The next morning, Myra rents a vehicle. And now, little heads up. If you can't handle, you know, me talking in great detail about two circus clowns striking out on their own to set up their own show, show based almost exclusively

on one of the clowns drinking five gallons of milk in 15 minutes then the other clown being shot out of a cannon over 100 feet straight up into the air, then falling back down, landing directly on the other clown's stomach, the one that drank all the milk, making that clown shit so hard as clown pants literally get blown off his clown ass, revealing a clown penis dressed up to look like an identical version of the two clowns in every single way, you should be okay, listen to this podcast or any podcast in existence. Because I don't think anybody has ever really talked about that on a podcast before.

now that I've gotten that on my system, back to the story. The next victim, 12-year-old John Kilbright, was at home in Ashton under Lynn with his five siblings. John's poor mother, Sheila, later recalled about that day. John tormented his brothers and sisters, and I said, please go to the cinema, John. Stop tormenting your brothers and sisters, and don't forget when Pauline Reed was missing what I told you.

Whoever did it is only a train ride from here, so always be on your guard. And he just grinned his cheeky grin and said bye, and off he went. In spite of the warnings, he was too trusting, especially of a lady, because I'd never warned him about women. I didn't think they're any bad women about. Ah, man, so fucking sad. John went to the movies with his friend John Ryan, right? Another John, and then to the market at Ashton upon Lynn, where the boys made some money helping some stallholders.

John's parent didn't know about this occasional side gig. John Ryan eventually decided to go home, and he last saw John Kilbride standing alone beside a salvage bin. John Kay's father Patrick went to the market to buy some shoes. that afternoon, but left at 4.45 p.m., about 40 minutes before John Ryan last saw John K. That afternoon, Myra and Ian went about establishing their alibi again, right? The heinous crimes that they committed could not have been more calculated. They took some pictures at Ramshaw Rocks, a scenic area, got coffee, went to a hardware store where they bought a cord and a kitchen knife. Afterwards, they went to the theater that was playing a film they'd already seen in case

they were questioned by the police about it. They snuck in, snuck out, you know, before the movie was done. Pretty smart way back before security cameras to get an alibi, I got to say. It was dark when they arrived at the market in Ashton Underlin, but there were still a bunch of kids running around. Ian told Myra that he had spotted one he liked. Again, just fucking casually hunting children like legit monsters. It was little John Kilbride that he'd spotted, of course, who was standing on a wall, eating a bag of cookies. Myra then approached John, made conversation. she said he was out late and mentioned that she had kids of her own, which was, of course, a lie.

Myra asked John to help her carry some boxes to her car, offered to give him a ride home. John gave her his name and address when asked. Myra drove John to a predetermined spot to meet Ian now. Once he was in the car, Ian offered John a bottle of sherry as a reward for his help, and John accepted. Ian said they would have to go to their house to get it, and John said that was fine. The couple also discussed picking up a pair of gloves. They had left behind, reassuring John, it wouldn't take long to find them.

Don again said, I don't mind. Soon they were at Holland Brown, Noel on Saddleworth Moore. Ian opened the trunk of his car to get a flashlight to look for these supposed gloves. He and John walked onto the moor opposite to where Pauline Reed was killed. When Ian and John had walked a certain distance, Myra drove off, intending to return a half hour later when the murder was finished, she'd say. And now 12-year-old John panicked, sensing something was wrong, but it was too late. Ian grabbed him from behind.

John tried to fight him off, but he wasn't strong enough. Ian attempted to pull John's pants and underwear down and tried to cut his throat but the serrated blade was too blunt so he strangled John to death instead with his hands Myra returned 30 minutes later walked towards Ian's flashlight

bringing the spade with her so they could bury his body she said she could tell straight away that Ian had raped John Ian recalled that before he shoveled the dirt on top of John he slapped John's naked ass and shouted take that you bastard Ian explained that

this was my gesture in the face of whatever malignant force it is, which underlies this universe, devoted only to chaos. He was like a, it's kind of similar to like a nihilist. He decided that like nothing matters. So who cares what happens to anyone, right? His relativist morality. Afterwards, the two went about disposing of evidence, including one of John's shoes that they had missed when burying him

and washing the car before returning to the rental center. My relator recalled, not only that I helped procure the victims for him, I knew it was wrong, to put it mildly, that what we were doing was evil and depraved. To him, it had become a hobby, something one did to get absorbed into, interested and often fascinated with, and it had become literally a deadly obsession, and I knew that I was part of his hobby and obsession. Ina Mira read about John's appearance in the paper, saw John's home address, couldn't resist the urge to go see it, right? Take in all the grief, these fuckers. Myra and Ian would now form a habit of returning to Saddleworth Moore to ensure the graves of Pauline Reed and John Kilbris.

ride would not been disturbed. And I'm sure they got off on just being there. Ian definitely did. They also went to the more to do target practice with some guns. Myra had also purchased from members of the gun club. They often photographed themselves holding their guns. More disturbingly, they took photos of themselves by the victim's graves, smile and acting so happy and proud of themselves.

Myra later said in a prison therapy session, Ian would have liked the victims to have suffered for the rest of their lives after he had abused them. he could only savor past experiences through the items that he kept under lock and key. Returning at a later date to rekindle the excitement, some of the photographs that we took on the Moors were constructed with the location of the graves taken into consideration. But Ian did not need a camera's image. He could reproduce the image in his own head. Over six months now passed, with no further crimes.

But by the summer of 1964, Ian was feeling that evil itch again. And he told Myra it was time to, quote, do another one. on the evening, excuse me, of June 16th, 1964, Ian Amira go out hunting for another child. But the victim this time was to be another 12-year-old boy, Keith Bennett. Keith and his siblings, Ian, Alan, and Margaret were supposed to spend the night at their grandma's house that night. Keith's mother, Winnie, I love that name, Winnie,

last saw him crossing the main road about 200 yards from his grandmother's house before she headed to bingo at 8 p.m. Myra was waiting in her vehicle for Ian to finish dinner with his family. something she was never invited over to join in on. Awkward. It's so fucking weird that he is so into having dinner with his folks before heading out to rape and kill kids. Ian got into her car afterwards

and then soon crossed paths. They soon crossed paths with Keith Bennett. They approached to ask Keith if he would help them find a glove on Saddleworth's point. The fucking glove story. Who asks a stranger to go help him find a glove out in the woods? It's such a fucking dumb story, but it just kept working. Keith agreed to go look in exchange for a bottle of alcohol.

this time Myra parked in a lay-by, a little parking spot on the shoulder of the road, further into the more than usual. She recalled that Keith, quote, went like a lamb to the slaughter. If you believe Ian, they walked up to three miles, little over a mile, if you believe, Myra, to their special place where they practiced with their guns. Keith was starting to get nervous, said his grandma was going to worry if he didn't get home soon. Myra claimed that Ian then motioned for her to climb a plateau to keep a lookout for him. Half an hour later, she said she heard Ian whistle, looked down to.

to see him alone. Ian, of course, would tell a different story. He claimed that the three of them reached the spot where Keith was killed. And when they got close, Ian whistled, which was Myra's signal, and that Ian then grabbed Keith's throat from behind. Keith tried to kick Ian, so Myra grabbed his legs, held them down while Ian sexually assaulted him. Ian then strangled Keith to death with his hands. Ian took a photo of Keith's dead body before they buried him, put a large rock on the grave as a marker so we could find it and relive it later. And they returned home late that night to dispose of evidence. Next morning, Ian showed Myra the photo of Keith on his back with his pants down, blood on his body, and he was pissed off because the photo was out of focus. So he threw it away.

Well, tore it up and burned it. Keith's mother learned, of course, that he never came to his grandma's house that night. Keith's grandmother thought she had made that he had made other arrangements. They both started to panic, look for him, couldn't find him anywhere. And they reported Keith missing, but were told the police couldn't do anything until he'd been missing for 48 hours. The police will eventually launch a large-scale search with house-to-house inquiries. They will search reservoirs and canals, put up posters. Keith's stepfather, Jimmy Johnson, was questioned four separate times. And now, after committing this murder, Myra and Ian refocused on recruiting David Smith to join them.

Two months after the rape and murder of young Keith, August 15th, 1964, 16-year-old David Smith married 18-year-old Marine Henley. Myra and Ian refused to attend the ceremony, but later that evening, I guess, you know, because they're against marriage. Later that evening, Ian invited David over for a drink at Myra's house. That is pretty funny. We refuse to attend your wedding. But do you want to grab drinks later that night?

David later recalled it was the girls who really created the atmosphere. My friendship with Ian developed because of them. This marked the start of regular hangouts between the two couples every two weeks. They get together, play cards, drink, listen to music. David said it was a very ordinary time. No heavy conversation or hints of what was to come. The relationship between Ian and Myro was normal as far as I could see. There was no question of one dominating the other.

She could give as good as she got anyway. They rode occasionally, but only over daft stuff. David and Myro were more friendly towards each other now, but she warned him never to lay a finger on her sister. But he would. He'd beat Marine regularly. Not many good guys in the story. More looking to the supposed good old days, right?

The mid-20th century, they just never seem so fucking good. September of 1964, Myra and her grandma move out of Gorton, Manchester into a two-bedroom house in the county of Cheshire about 50 minutes away and closer to Saddleworth More. They live next door to a Jamaican couple

whom Ian and Myra hated because they were black. What? Those two Nazis were also racist? Myra's grandmother, Ellen, still strongly disliked Ian. Didn't want him moving into the new house, which was in her name, but Myra insisted and persuaded her to allow it. Ian and Amira

her soon befriended 12-year-old Pat Hodges, who lived a couple of seven children of Elsie Masterson. First time she met the couple, she was knocking on Myra's door to see if her mom was there. Pat later recalled that, quote, Myra asked me to the end of the house. I stayed for about 20 minutes. We had been living at number 12, about three or four weeks before we got to know Ian and Myra.

When I visited Myra, she suggested I should go with her down longsight. She said she was going to pick Ian up, and I went with her in a little gray minivan. And Pat started to accompany Myra each night now to pick Ian up. up from his mom's house. Why the fuck is a 12 year old being allowed to hang out with two young adults you had just met? What is wrong with so many people? Imagine knowing that your 12 year old is just chilling with some young adult neighbors who are all over the age of 18, right? People who don't have kids?

Would you be cool with that? If you would, what the fuck is wrong with you? I mean, I know this was a different time, but what? A few weeks later, Myra suggested this kid go with him to the Moors, and she did. They started doing that once or twice a week. Sometimes Ina Miro would bring a sacks of soil. back from the moor to put it in their garden, right, which is fucking nasty, probably used the soil being fed by their victims' decomposing bodies to grow some flowers. If they weren't

going to the moors, Pat was regularly visiting Myra's house and drinking some wine. Myra told the investigator in the late 80s that she and Ian had an affectionate but non-sexual relationship with Pat. Okay. October 9th, 1964, David Smith back in court facing an assault charge now. He's fined six pounds in order to not reoffend for 12 months. Soon after, Maureen gives birth to their daughter, Angela Don Smith, neither Myra nor Ian had any interest in being an aunt or uncle, did not seem to care at all about Angela. I mean, yeah, I mean, clearly they are not the nurturing types towards children,

at least not anymore. November of 1964, the new chief of the criminal investigation department at Ashton Underline reopened the investigation into the disappearance of John Kilbride. None of the investigations into any of these couple's victims have made any progress whatsoever. A few days before Christmas, 1964, Ian and Myra go to a grocery store to buy some discount wine and spirits for the holidays. They see a poster advertising a fun fair and decided it would be a good opportunity to hunt for another, quote, sacrifice.

That's how they see these kids as sacrifices. They decided that whoever they picked up should be taken back to their home this time. They'd have the house to themselves on Boxing Day, December 26, because Myra's grandma was going out to visit her son for his birthday. They deposited their two suitcases full of creepy shit at the Manchester Central Station again. on Christmas Eve, Pat Hodges visits the couple. They gave her alcohol until Pat's mom, Elsie, showed up. She stayed until 11.30 p.m. Why is this little kid just drinking with them, too?

A few minutes after she and Pat got home, Myra knocked on the door, asked Pat if, or asked if Pat, excuse me, could go with them to the Moors. Pat was insistent about going that night. Elsie allowed this because she is a fucking moron. Myra drove them all out to the Moors. They stayed in the car until 12.30 a.m. Myra drank some wine.

They all ate sandwiches. Then the couple dropped the little kid off at about 1.30 at the morning. Elty later said, looking back now, I know I should have been worried. I still have nightmares of what could have happened to Pat with those devil people. I lie awake at night thinking what might have happened if they had kept her. They might have had second thoughts or something like that. Fuck yes, you should have been worried.

She's a 12-year-old girl, you fucking idiot. On Boxing Day, 1964, Myra and Ian decided to act. Ian told Myra they should kidnap a girl so he could easily sell the photos he would take of her. What? In the days before the internet, how the hell did he think he could sell those photos? Like, to who? What other creeps did he know?

Myra first drove her grandmother to spend the afternoon with her son, promising she'd be back at 9.30 p.m. to pick her up. Back at home, Ian set up a camera and lighting equipment in Myra's bedroom and his tape recorder and microphone by the front door. He wanted to document the horror in detail this time. then they headed to the fun fair where they would encounter 10-year-old Leslie Ann Downey just 10.

At 3.30 p.m., Leslie Ann asked her mom if she could go to the fair. Next to our neighbor's kids were going, and Mrs. Clark, their mom was supposed to be watching them, going along too. A fair was so close to the Downey home that they could literally hear the music from their house. Excuse me, Leslie Ann's stepfather, Alan, instructed Leslie and her brother Tommy

to come back as soon as they'd spent their money. Dinner was being served at five. Leslie and her brother's Tommy and Brett left at 3.45 p.m. they met up with Mrs. Clark's children, Linda, Roy, and Anne. Mrs. Clark decided not to go at the last minutes and sent the kids off without telling Leslie Ann's mother. Mary's daughter, Linda, and Leslie Ann went on a ride, played some games. Linda and her sister Ann went home at 515 after running out of money.

Leslie Ann said she was going to find her brothers and go home with them, but she wanted to take one last look around the fair. Linda and her sister got home around 5.30 p.m. Leslie never met up with her brothers. She was last seen. by her school friend Bernard King around 545 p.m. Years later, Myra will tell the detective that she and Ian went to the fairground with bags and boxes that day. They saw Leslie Ann, saw that she was alone,

watched her for five to ten minutes before they walked up to her, and purposefully dropped one of the bags in front of her. Leslie, good kid, helped pick it up. They offered her money to carry it to the car for them, offered her more money if she'd help them unpack the shopping at their house. She's put into the back of the car, surrounded by the bags and boxes to conceal her presence during the drive.

Ian later denied going to the fair with Myra and insisted he was waiting on a nearby road when Myra pulled up with Leslie Ann already in the vehicle. As Leslie Ann was being driven to Myra and Ian's home, her brothers arrived home without her. They assumed she was at Mrs. Clark's. Leslie Ann's brother Tommy was sent over to get her, only to learn she wasn't there,

and then he searched for it to fairground, but of course couldn't find her. Leslie Ann's parents then learned that Mrs. Clark had not gone with the children. Imagine they're a bit fucking pissed. They searched the fairground twice, knocked on the doors of everything. anybody who knew their daughter and accused Mrs. Clark of fucking negligence, accurate for allowing young kids to go to the fair alone.

Guessing those two would not be friends after this. Leslie Ann was reported missing shortly after 6 p.m. The parents were told by an officer, quote, apart from the fact that it's Christmas and we have a number of officers on leave, there is no way we can mount a search for a kitty that's an hour late home. If we did that every time a child gets reported missing, we'd never have time to do anything else. He instructed them to come back at 11 p.m. if Leslie Ann still hadn't returned.

Myra, Ian, and Leslie Ann arrived at the house around 6.30 p.m. Ian switched on the tape recorder. He had left by the front door. The disturbing tape captured some of Leslie Ann's final moments and would later be played at their trial. Oof. In the recording, Leslie Ann pleads for help and cries. She calls Myra and Ian Mum and Dad for some reason. Why is never established? Probably part of their sick fantasy.

They forced her to put a gag at her mouth at one point. Leslie Ann tells the couple she can't breathe. Ask them, please don't undress me, right? Let me go. tape ends with Christmas music and, quote, non-vocal noises. They did not record the real horror that followed for some reason, but they would take photos. Ian and Myra would take photos, nude photos of Leslie Ann in various pornographic positions with a gag in her mouth. She was then raped by both Myra and Ian before being strangled to death.

Myra claimed she was sent by Ian to the bathroom to run a bath while she assumed Ian was raping and killing Leslie Ann. Ian claimed Myra was an active part of the rape. active part of the murder and enjoyed it. Ian also said that Myra strangled Lesley Ann with a silk cord. However, medical exam later testified that the post-mortem exam ruled out strangulation by ligature, meaning whoever did it likely did it with their bare hands. The couple washed Leslie Ann's bloody body in the tub, wrapped her in a bed sheet. Myra was due to pick up her grandma by this point, but they still had not gotten rid of the body.

Myra left Ian alone with the body, drove to her uncle's house to get her grandma, although she was already there and planned on driving herself to the home. She shared with her grandma. She told her uncle that the roads were bad and she couldn't take Ellen home. Her uncle argued with her because he didn't have a place for Ellen to sleep. Myra stormed out. Her grandma had to sleep on the floor that night. What the fuck?

How is grandma's son? Her uncle, not willing to give grandma the bed for the night. Just a sea of dirt bags in this suck. Early the next morning on the 27th, Myra and Ian drove out to Holland Brown Knoll on Saddleworth Moore, where Ian dug a shallow grave about 90 yards from the road. While Myra waited in the car with the body, a police officer pulled up beside her, asked if something was wrong. Myra tried to remain calm, told him she was, quote, dying, yeah, she'd be drying out her spark plugs.

And that lie worked, and the officer drove off. Moments later, Ian returned to get the body. Afterwards, Myra went home, cleaned up the crime scene before leaving to pick up her grandma. Ian burned more evidence while she's gone. Leslie Ann's mother and stepdad came to the station for separate interviews that same day and was asked if Alan had ever hit Leslie Ann or. whether she had flirted with her stepdad. Gross.

Anne insisted her husband was not a pedophile. She was then asked if she had ever physically abused. Her daughter, Alan was asked similar questions. He actually later said, if the interview had gone on much longer, he would have confessed just to get it over with. When they were released five hours later and discovered that her eight-year-old son, Tommy,

have been taken to the station for question as well. They were furious, but police said they had to rule out all possibilities. The Manchester Regional Crime Squad took over the investigation, interviewing hundreds of people now at the fairground and every staff member, police dogs searched factories and warehouses, canals were dragged. In total, police conducted around 6,000 interviews. This combined with the media coverage made Leslie Ann's disappearance national news. Then on December 29th, the media first linked Leslie Ann's disappearance

to the disappearances of Pauline Reed, John Kilbride, and Keith Bennett. And now all of this really makes national news. People are freaked out, of course. two weeks after New Year's Leslie Ann's mother made an appeal in the Gorton and Open Shaw reporter which Myra and Ian read asking for whoever was holding her daughter

to please release her. Ian later claimed that the murder of Leslie End Downing marked the end of the Moore's murders. He said, quote, contrary to popular perception, the so-called Moore's murders were merely an existential exercise of just over a year, which was concluded in December of 1964.

The final ten months of our freedom of 1965 were entirely preoccupied with return to mercenary priorities, reorganizing logistics, and eradicating liabilities. Okay? He acts like he's so fucking important, like he's on some kind of mission. Now Ian claimed they were looking for a mule to help them carry out some robberies. They returned to wanting to pull off another different type of perfect crime and wanted their mule to be David Smith.

In early 1965, Myron Ian attempted to convince Pat Hodges' mother to allow him. her to go on a trip to Scotland with them now, right? The neighbor girl, Elsie declined. She wasn't 100% brain dead, I guess. And by February, Myron Ian now no longer spoke with Pat. Pat later recalled that she stopped hanging out with Myron Ian because two girls her age moved in nearby and she hung out with them instead. Shortly after the girls moved in, Ian confronted her about climbing the wall at the side of the house saying, don't let me cop you in the garden again. I'll break your back if I cop you in here again. She was terrified. Never spoke to him again after that. April 25th, 1965,

Marine and David's baby Angela dies from bronchitis. The parents were devastated, of course, Myra and Ian don't give a fuck. Probably laughed about it since they were full evil now. For real, though, they thought they could take advantage of this situation of David's grief to convince him to help them commit robberies. The weekend after the baby died, the two couples go out to the moor, returning around 9 p.m. to drink and play cards. Round 10.30, Ian says everybody go back out to Saddleworth Moore. Once again, Ian and David, or once there, excuse me,

Ian and David go for a walk unbeknownst to David. Ian took him directly to John Kilbride's grave. David noticed that although Ian was drunk, he seemed to know exactly where he wanted to go on the Vast Moreland. Later, Ian showed David maps and drawings of the streets surrounding the bank. He'd been watching for years. He discussed the risks and logistics of committing a robbery. Meanwhile, Ian and Myra continued inviting David and Maureen over for drinks,

which they accepted due to their pain over their daughter's death. Similar to what he had once done with Myra, during their nights of drinking, Ian asked David if there was anybody he wanted debt. David named his former best friend, Sammy Jepson, and a man named Tony Latham. Both men had been bragged that they were sexually involved with Maureen. A prosecutor would later say that Ian wanted to make Smith a student of murder. He loved trying to drag others into his fucked up worldview.

Ian asked questions about their families where they lived and concluded it would be safer to kill them. Tony. He gave David his camera, told him to go get a photo with a man. A couple days later, David found Tony at a pub with a group of friends. David joined the group. They talked about his camera. David tried to take a photo of Tony, but realized he had no film. He's clearly a genius. David was worried that Ian would be pretty upset about the failure, but no. Ian asked Tony, or excuse me, Ian asked if Tony was suspicious, he said he wasn't, and now nothing else was ever said about killing him again. Guessing this was less about committing a possible murder and more about

finding out if David was open to murder. By September, David was now not working, low on cash, making a bank robbery more appealing. Ian instructed him to keep a watch on the Williams and Glenn Bank on Ashton Old Road. David watched the bank until closing, took notes, which Ian then

tossed aside that evening. Did he really care about this bank? Or was just testing his willingness? That night, the two couples had their heaviest drinking session yet. Eventually, Myron and Maureen went upstairs to sleep, leaving Ian and David alone. And now, Ian pointed the gun at David, wasn't convinced that David believed him when he said he could kill and told him you're about to die.

Ian pulled the trigger. Nothing happened. Gun was empty. He's just fucking about, having a laugh. Ian then loaned David some books to read, asked him to take notes on them. Weird. David's notes, he would actually do this. It seemed to indicate he agreed with Ian's views on the world that it was shit.

On September 26th when the two men were alone again after night of drinking, Ian brought up the robbery and for the first time mentioned that he had killed before. He asked David, are you capable of murder? I've done it. I've done two or three. You and Maureen have sat near one. David didn't answer. Ian continued, you think I'm lying, don't you? You think I'm a lying, cunt, but it's been done.

I've killed more than once. I've got photographic proof, and you've sat on one of their graves. Still thinking David didn't believe him, Ian explained how he sat in his car waiting for the right person to come along, how he brought somebody to his home, later buried them in the Moors. David later said in a police interview, I didn't know whether to believe him or not because he didn't give any reason

for wanting to kill people apart from the bank job. Although he sounded quite serious about it. On October 2nd, 1965, Ian and Myra go to visit David and Marine. Again, Myra and Marine are asleep by 2 a.m. Once again, conversation between the two men turns to murder.

Ian was still convinced David didn't believe he was capable of killing, insisted he'd killed two or three people. Also that he was going to kill another, but not for a few more months. Ian didn't think he could indoctrinate. David into his belief system or trust him not to snitch about the bank job until David believed he was capable of murder. On October 5th, David helped Ian and Myra load two suitcases into Myra's van.

The couple drove off without saying where they were going and David walked home, right? Those creepy suitcases again. He was still waiting for instructions on a possible robbery, still needing money, but the couple now had other plans. It doesn't seem like Ian was ever very serious about the robbery, just mostly wanted to kill kids. As usual, they drove to Manchester Central to deposit their suitcases in the luggage area. Once again, they put the tickets into Myra's prayer book. Next day, Ian and Myra went to work with plans to choose another victim that night. This time, if they were going to involve David, or they were going to involve David Smith to see if he was capable.

Guessing they thought if they could get him to be complicit in the murder of a child, then there would be no way he would ever rat on them if he got arrested in connection with the robbery, or they just wanted to bring somebody else into their evil kid-killing game. David, meanwhile, more worried about money than ever because he'd received a note from his landlord that he was behind in rent. At the same day, 17-year-old Edward Evans, an apprentice engineer, was leaving his home to go to the Manchester City Center. Edward had thought he was going to go watch a soccer game with his buddy Michael Mahone, but ended up going alone. Michael recalled that Edward visited him Sunday, said he would see him Monday or Tuesday, but they never made solid plans. And Michael wasn't feeling that well because of a leg injury and, you know, didn't want to go out to the soccer game.

8 p.m. David came to Myra and Ian's home to get some advice about his situation with the landlord. Myra told David they couldn't help him out, but then Ian invited David in and said he would get him the money. Ian explained that they would rob a gay man because homosexuality was illegal at the time and the man wouldn't go to the police to avoid getting in trouble. David was led to believe that Ian and Myra would commit the robbery and give him the money. At 8.30 p.m., the trio left the house. David walked home, told Marine he'd have the rent money the next day. Ian and Myra now drove towards central Manchester parked at the train station. Ian got out of the car, went looking for a victim alone.

A few minutes later, a police officer knocked on Myra's window, told her she was parked illegally and needed to move. Myra said she was waiting for a boyfriend, would leave in a couple minutes. Officer told her that he would walk around the block, but if she was still there when he got back, he'd have to give her a ticket. Ian appeared a couple minutes later with Edward Evans, introduced Myra as his sister. Edward introduced himself as Eddie, told him he had just watched Manchester the Manchester, the Manchester United game. Ian later revealed that he met Edward at a nearby milk vending machine.

Milk vending machine. I had not heard of a milk vending machine before. Sounds a little sketchy. I looked them up. They do exist. Still to this day in some places like Tokyo. Tokyo actually has fucking vending machines for everything. canned carrots, canned spaghetti,

hot ramen soup, fresh pop popcorn, corn chowder, pre-worn women's underwear. Not kidding about that last one. they have a fucking vending machine i've seen it on some video on on youtube a fucking vending machine of dirty panties uh anyway they they all got to talking and ian offered edward a drink at his house and a ride home afterwards and eddie accepted they drive back to mire in ean's house open a bottle of wine eventually ian gave the signal for mira to go get david Ian indicated he was going to have sex with eddie while she was away never been established if

uh eddie was attracted to men and i thought uh they were going to have consensual sex or not not sure Myra showed up at David a Marine's place at 11.30 p.m. David still thinks that there's a robbery going on. The couple of it in bed for about half an hour, David answered the door, recalled that Myra looked a proper mess, seemed on edge. Myra asked David to walk her home because the streetlights were out, and David agreed. He intended to leave Myra at her front door, but she told him that Ian had some miniature wine bottles he wanted to give him inside. She instructed David to wait by the road, wait for her to flick the landing light twice.

That was something David had done before because of Ian's volatile moods. Myra had to go see if Ian wanted David to come in at this time. Almost all these people are so fucking weird. If I knew somebody whose girlfriend had to check their mood to see if I was welcome to come over, if I had to wait for a signal for a while, no fucking way, I'm going to stay friends with that person. I'd rather be alone than be friends with somebody like that. When he saw the signal, David knocked and Ian let him in and let him into their kitchen. David immediately noticed that the door to the living room was closed.

Ian wanted David present for the murder of Edward Evans because as I mentioned he felt that if David went along with it he'd be unable to back out of any other crimes Ian suggested. Edward was sitting on the living room sofa talking to Myra when Ian let David in. Ian then approached Edward from behind. In his own words, I picked up an axe that had been placed out of sight

and I brought it down with great force on Evan's head. I was aiming for the back of his head to kill him instantly but he turned round at the last split second and the blade of the axe bounced off the crown of his head. it should have only taken one hit. David, who was waiting in the kitchen, heard a scream. Myra now, fucking, he has, he has no idea what's happening. Again, he thought there was a robbery this night.

Myra now shouts, Dave, help him. According to Ian, Evan screamed out as I rain blows down on his head. He was rising on the floor to protect himself. Myra was in the room watching. The two dogs were excited and barking in the kitchen. David provided the following detailed account of the disturbing events that unfolded. He said, when I ran in, I just stood and said, the living room and saw a young lad. He was lying with his head and shoulders on the couch and his

legs on the legs on the legs on the other side of the young lad's legs. The lad was still screaming. He didn't look injured then, but there was only a small television light on. The big light was off. Ian had a hatchet in his hand. He was holding it above his head and then he hit the lad on the left side of his head with the hatchet. I heard the blow. It was a terrible hard blow. It sounded horrible. They were heavy blows. They were not blows aimed in a frenzy. They were almost position. The man was still screaming, fell off the couch onto the floor now. Ian went after him and, quote, kept hacking away at the young lad with the hatchet. Ian hit the boy over and over again.

Incredible how hard the human skull is, right? Wild that people can survive numerous blows to their head with a fucking axe. One of Ian's blows would actually lightly graze Myra's head. Another would cut David, right? They're both standing very close, watching the shit. By the time it's all done, there's blood all over the living room. Myra's grandma is now awake. She asks what's going on.

And Myra tells her that she had just dropped something on her foot, but she's fine. And grandma goes back to bed. Don't I imagine that Nana was home during all of this? Like, what is happening in this? How do you shrug off the sounds of somebody screaming while getting hacked to death by an axe? Eddie, still alive after all this. So Ian goes in the kitchen, gets a roll of electrical flex tubing, then puts a cushion over Edward's head and strangled.

him with the flex. David watched as Ian pulled the court tight and called him a fucking dirty bastard. A pathologist will later determine that Eddie Evans was hit 14 times in the head with that axe. Most of his right skull had been smashed in, and yet his cause of death was strangulation. He survived, that entire axe attack. David now knew he had two choices. Run to the police, hope Myra and Ian didn't catch him first before he made it, or see the night through no matter what. He decided it was safest to stay, which probably was the right. right call. He instructed Myra to get, I mean, it's not like he can save this kid at this point now. Ian instructed Myra to get some soapy water and some old cloths. Ian handed the axe to David,

specifically so that his prince would be on it. They're trying to plant, you know, set him up for maybe taking the fall for this. And then they all sat on the couch drinking wine and smoking, fucking insanity. And then Ian said they would, quote, finish up in here and have a cup of tea. A cup of tea. I'm not good me. You're all worn out as well. Christ, it was intense. You fought like mad, didn't he? Bloody hell. Right, let's settle down and have a cup of tea before we turn in. While cleaning, Ian realized he had sprained his ankle during the attack,

which would delay the disposal of the body. They wrapped the body up in some old sheets and a blanket, moved into Myra's bedroom before heading downstairs to finish cleaning, took almost three hours to clean up all the blood, hair, skin, skull, and brain matter. Afterwards, they sat and drank tea together, discussed how to get rid of the body. Myra referenced how she and Ian buried another body on the Moors, they made a plan for David to meet Myra the next evening outside of Millwards. They'd go to David's grandfather's house to get the stroller that belonged to David's dead daughter.

My God. Myra and David would take the stroller to the house, put the body in it, then drive it up to the Moors to bury it. Ian would stay home because of his ankle. At 3 a.m., David finally saw an opportunity to leave, told him he needed to get home so Marine wouldn't worry. And then he literally ran his ass home. As Ian and Myra are discussing their worry that David is going to tell Maureen, Myron remembered that she needed to lock the chain on the steering wheel of her car, but she was afraid of the dark.

Uh-huh, didn't want to go out alone. She's a fucking murderer of children, but she's afraid of the dark. She is the dark. So Ian goes out to do it, and as he stooped down to put the chain on the wheel, his wallet fell out of his pocket, and then he just put it on the dashboard and left it,

and that's going to be a big mistake, because the wallet contained his body disposal plan. After that, he goes back inside. Ian and Myra fall asleep for their last night together. when David arrived home, he threw up violently, which woke Maureen up, and then she saw his bloody clothing, and he told her he had just seen Myra and Ian Killerman.

Maureen thought David was drunk and talking nonsense. She made him a cup of tea, right? A lot of tea this evening. But he kept repeating himself, said he'd watched Ian Kill a Man with an axe, and Myra was involved as well, told Maureen everything. And they discussed what to do. They decided they had no choice but to go to the police.

David, though, didn't want to leave the house in the dark. A lot of people afraid of the dark in the same. episode. So they decided to go out at dawn. At 6 a.m. bright and early, David and Marine left their apartment. David armed himself with a knife and a screwdriver terrified that Ian and Myra were lurking around somewhere waiting to ambush them. They had greatly misjudged David. He was down for robbery, but not killing kids. He and Marine walked some 300 yards to the nearest telephone box. Then David called the police at 6.10 a.m. asked for an officer to come pick them up as soon as possible. He said he would explain everything once he had been driven to the station. He

he and Marine were so scared they literally hid behind a hedge while they waited. Police constable John Antrobus picked the couple up. David was very agitated and upset, didn't say a word during the drive. Once at the station, he revealed everything that transpired in the early morning hours and claimed that Ian and Myra had guns in their house, so be careful. At 8.m., the police headed to Myra's house. 8.40, disguised as a delivery driver, smart. Police superintendent Bob Talbot knocked on Myra's back door after she opened.

he identified himself as an officer, told her he had reason to believe there was a man in the house. Two officers then quickly rushed past her, found in the living room, writing a note to his employer, letting him know he would not be in because of his bad ankle. Myra later recalled, quote, I'll never forget his face when I took the police into the living room. It was expressionless, as it often was, but I saw him almost shrink before my eyes, helpless and powerless. It was all over. Thank God. Superintendent Talbot informed the couple. he'd received a report that a violent act had occurred in the home.

Ian and Myra immediately knew, of course, that David had snitched. Myra didn't object when Talbot asked to search the house. All the commotion had woken up her grandma Ellen. Myra told her that the police were there due to a traffic violation. And she just went back into her room, I guess. Myra's bedroom door was locked, and Myra explained that she kept it locked because that was where her guns were stored, and the key was at a workplace. Talbot told her they were going to take the key, but Myra insisted

it wasn't a good time, despite the fact that she was about to go to work when the police knocked on her door. As a police were discussing whether they should break down the door or not, Ian and Myra stared at each other, and then Myra said, well, you had better tell him. Ian admitted, quote, there was a row last night. It's in the back bedroom. And he told Myra to give up the keys. It's in the back bedroom, he said.

Yep. Not he, it. Edward Evans' body was found in Myra's bedroom. Beside it was a bag that contained the hatchet. Two revolvers were found in the cardboard box. Ian was brought to the station for questioning. Myra was not arrested at this time, but demanded to go along with Ian. Myra's grandma will never speak about what happened, not publicly.

We don't know what she heard or possibly saw that night. David was brought to Myra's home, and he quickly identified her and Ian as they passed by. Ian gave the following statement at the police station. Last night, I met Eddie in Manchester. We were drinking, and then we went home to Hattersley. We had an argument, and we came to blows. After the first few blows, the situation was out of course. control. When the argument started, David was at the front door, and Myra called him in.

Eddie was on the floor by the living room door, and David hit him with a stick and kicked him about three times. Eddie kicked me at the beginning on my ankle, and there was a hatchet at the fireplace, which I hit Eddie with. After that, the only noise Eddie made was gurgling, and Dave and I began cleaning up the blood. The gurgling stopped. Then we tied up the body, that is Dave and I, and nobody else, and Dave and I carried it upstairs. We sat in the house till three or four in the morning, then we decided to get rid of the body in the morning or the next night. Ian really thrown a Hail Mary here. I guess he has hoped that David's version of events might somehow magically align with his

or more likely that he was, you know, David would look like the liar. He's telling the truth and he'd pin it all on David. David was interviewed later that morning, made his first full statement. He maintained he did not participate in the murder at all, just watched in horror. He helped clean and wrap up the body, but only out of fear. David also revealed that Myra mentioned she and Ian had buried. buried another body on the morse. Although Myra and Ian had spent hours cleaning,

they had left a great deal of evidence behind. Forensic officers would find bloodstains on the steady covers, mattress, the floor of Myra's bedroom, in the living room, they found a bloodstained sock, a bloodstained cushion cover, blood on the legs of the easy chair,

blood on the wall opposite the fireplace, blood on a cigarette butt found by the fireplace, as well as a piece of fucking skull on the carpet. Myra agreed to an interview. but maintained that she and Ian were innocent. She said, we are involved in something we didn't do. We never left each other. We never do. What happened last night was an accident.

It should never have happened. An accident. Did she actually think that would work? Oh, it was an accident. You know what? Everybody makes mistakes. Sometimes you spill a glass of milk. Sometimes you hit somebody in the head with an axe over ten times. And then you strangle him.

When police searched Myra's car, they found Ian's wallet on the dashboard. Inside are three sheets of paper with a list of abbreviated words. This was Ian's working list of tasks he used each time he committed a murder. The papers contained notes about changing seat covers, burning the shaft and burying the head of the hatchet, cleaning their clothing in the car. There was no evidence linking Myra and Ian to any other crimes until Detective Sergeant Roy Dean found an old exercise book with Ian's handwriting inside. One of the pages had sketches and a list of names, including the name John Kilbright, right? A boy who'd been missing almost two years now.

The Lancashire Police got involved in the case, wanted to ask Ian, some questions about other missing children like Pauline Keith and Leslie Ann. Ian initially refused to admit involvement in any other deaths. He did help police work out most of the coded notes on the list, though, but lied about some of them. He insisted that he wrote the list after Edward died, but the wording showed it was prepared before. At 8.20 p.m., Ian was charged with the murder of Edward Evans.

Police attempted to question Myra again, but she was released a few minutes later because she refused to talk. They decided not to charge David Smith at the time. they weren't sure what to think about the extent of his involvement. For the moment, since Ian confessed and David and Myra were accusing each other, they decided to let them go due to a lack of evidence. Ian will appear in court the next day, October 8th, to face the murder charge. Meanwhile, back at Myra Salas, police discovered a large collection of photos,

many of which were taken at Saddleworth more. Investigators had a feeling that the case was much deeper than it first appeared to be. The next day, October 9th, Myra went to the laundromat with her mom, stopped at Millwards, under the pretense of visiting colleagues. In reality, she headed to the warehouse to get her and Ian's original master list as well as Ian's list of contacts, maps,

photographs, address books, tapes, and other incriminating materials. Myra quickly burned these items in our office fireplace. It's highly unlikely, or it's highly likely, excuse me, she burned photos of the victims, maybe even some that the police were not aware of. On October 10th, detectives took Marine and David Smith to the Moors

to identify the spot where Ian took David for target practice. But he couldn't find it. the next weekend with detective suspecting Ian that he was linked to the disappearances of other kids in Manchester police returned to the spot near Woodhead to investigate thought it was odd that Ian would take photographs of seemingly random spots on the Moors so they planned to search. Right, smart. David Marine were taken back to the Moors as well

but found it difficult to recall the exact areas that Ian and Myra had showed them. Five days after Ian was arrested, Myra was charged as an accessory after the fact of the murder of Edward Evans. Ian was questioned about the disappearance of John Kilbride again, but maintained that there are no others. I was confronted with David Smith's claim that he said the Evans murder, was the messiest yet, which implied there were others. Ian replied that, yeah, I said that,

but it was just to do with the situation we were in, whatever that means. When asked about his claim that he had killed three or four people, Ian said, I may have given him a vague impression, but it was just part of the fiction I was promoting to impress him regarding the bank jobs. confronted with David's claim that Ian once said David and Marine were practically sitting on a grave on the Moors, Ian was asked if he buried bodies out there, and he replied, It was just part of the fiction I was promoting with him. Ian claimed he didn't know why he wrote John Kilbride's name in his book.

Then claimed Kilbride was a man he had met in person. Meanwhile, in her prison cell, Myra was given an envelope that contained a letter from Ian. He reassured her she'd be out soon, while he'd get a life sentence. And he just told her to be brave. She got very upset. She asked to visit with Ian, and her visit would be granted October 13th. Once they saw the guards had lost interest in their, you know, meandering conversation, Ian asked Myra if she had managed to get the, quote, luggage ticket.

Myra was not able to, she said, because she wasn't allowed back in the house after Ian was arrested. She mentioned that she did get the files at Millwards, though. While the police were busy searching the moors, David was brought in for another interview. He discussed the planned robbery, mentioned that Ian had asked him to bring any incriminating evidence back to Myra's house. Myra and Ian had put in suitcases, he said. Until this, the police were unaware of these suitcases.

David said they were huge pack with stuff, but I don't know what else, just the stuff I handed back. No suitcases have been found in the house, but David mentioned that the couple sometimes would go to the railway stations in Manchester, and here we go. Searching further at Myra's house, a detective found hidden in the spine of Myra's prayer book, the luggage ticket for Central Station, Manchester. This answered the question of two of Ian's abbreviations in his working list, tick and PB, ticket, and prayer book. Two suitcases were found at Victoria Station, which changes the entire investigation. Fairly later recalled about finding the suitcases,

quote, it was like opening Pandora's box. It was all there. There were pornographic magazines. The Marquis de Assad. It was really the key that identified what Brady and Hinley's involvement had been. one of the suitcases the blue one had a copy of mind comf in addition to hardcore porn and bdsm you know toys inside the other suitcase the brown one there was more porn 54 photo negatives 55 photos other assorted personal items belonging to myron ian most disturbingly hidden inside an empty tin of liver oil were photos of a young girl identified as leslie ann downy a 10-year-old leslie was naked in the photos and one of them she was on a bed another she was praying others were graphic sexual. Her fucking poor mom was shown two of the least graphic photos for identification purposes. She had to view a photo of her daughter with her arms tied together with a gag in her mouth.

Finally, the contents of these mysterious suitcases are revealed. Police also found the audio tape of Myra and Ian torturing Leslie Ann before she was murdered. Several officers who listened to that tape openly wept. This tape was proof that Myra and Ian were at the very least involved in her disappearance, and almost certainly her killers. The bed in the photos was the exact bed in Myra's home And Myra's fingerprints were found on three of the photos of Leslie Ann The camera used to take the photos not found at the house

Myra had traded in for a different one And the police tracked down the new owner And confirmed it was a match October 16th, 1965 Police conducted another search of the Moors That afternoon as officers were getting ready to leave PC Bob Spears You know, police constable

stepped away to relieve himself wanded over to an area away from the search zone and he stood in a clear path to the top of a ridge and later recalled, quote, on returning back down to the other officers, my attention was drawn to a depression in the peat. This depression was filled with water. Pratruiting out of the water was what looked like a white-weathered stick.

On making an examination, I saw it was a bone. Due to the color of the water, you couldn't see anything, but I could definitely feel something under the water, and I decided I would call the other officers up. Officers moved the soil, found clothing, more bone. some flesh, eventually a human head. It was a severely decomposed little girl's body. The body was later identified as Leslie Ann Downey.

An autopsy examination excluded blunt force, strangulation by ligature, but did not exclude mechanical asphyxia as a cause of death. Please question Ian again. October 18th, he already had admitted to taking the photos of Leslie Ann but claimed that the girl in the photos did not give the name of Downey. I said he knew nothing about the tape they'd listened to. Maintained he, you know, again, didn't kill Leslie Ann, claimed two men dropped her off of the house

that he knew one of them but was not prepared to reveal his identity. He said that Leslie Ann left the house with the men who brought her. Myra was interviewed a few minutes after Ian's interview wrapped up. She said nothing when she was shown the photos, but teared up when she heard the recording. And then she said, I am ashamed. October 21st, Myra and Ian are charged with the murder of Leslie Ann Downey. That morning authorities were back at Holland Brown,

Null with three photos for reference. One showed Myra kneeling down in front of a patch of disturbed earth. They wanted to find that site. The background of the picture was opposite to where Lesley Ann was found. At midday, police found a spot that matched the photo, pushed a stick into the ground. When they pulled it out, it smelled like

decomposing flesh. This was almost 400 yards from where Leslie Ann had been found. A boy's shoe was then found nine inches down when they started to dig and a portion of lower lake. The body was eventually uncovered, but since it had been buried in a stream it was on an upstream bed it was unidentifiable they estimated the boy was 12 years old

there were two missing boys matching this description keith bennett and john kilbride sheila kilbride would identify her son's shoe and his clothing once again there were no obvious injuries no signs of his fix she due to decomposition meaning the cause of death could not be identified on october 28th ian was questioned again specifically about the john kilbride case he was asked about the photo of Myra crouching in front of the gravesite. He claimed one of two men killed John and said he gave their names to his lawyer but refused to tell the police. In her interview, Myra tried to cast blame onto David Smith.

Cops weren't buying that ship. Saddleworth Moore was searched again November 10th, but neither Pauline Reed nor Keith Bennett's bodies were found. Myra and Ian's committal hearing began December 6, 1965. Ian had been charged with three murders. Edward Evans, John Kilbride, Leslie Ann Downey. Myra charged with the murders of Edward and Leslie and with harboring Ian for the murder of John Kilbright.

Myra and Ian knew that they could not face a death penalty because of the murder abolition of death penalty act. They became law on November 9th, but they still faced life in prison. Ahead of the committal hearing, the police showed Leslie Ann's mother the tape. They wanted her to hear it because it was going to be played in court and she needed to identify Leslie's voice.

How horrific. She confirmed through sobs that it was her daughter. Myra and Ian were brought into court. Ian's attorney asked for the judges to hear the case in private, but in a surprise move, the judge announced they would hear the case in open court. 86 witnesses will testify at the hearing, including David Smith, who testified about the murder of Edward Evans for almost seven straight hours. Myra had been writing to her mom from prison since her arrest,

including during the hearing, and she wrote to her mom after Marine and David testified, saying in part, she wouldn't look me once in the doc ma'am. She couldn't. She kept her face turned away. I noticed she was wearing a new coat and boots, et cetera, and that Smith had a new watch on, a new overcoat and suit. I suppose he's had an advance on his dirty money from the press.

Right, as if he's the asshole. David had entered into an agreement with the news of the world newspaper. His dad and uncle had set up the deal because he still needed money and would struggle to get a job with all the negative press. Under the terms of the contract, David and Marine were paid 15 pounds a week until the trial. Upon the conviction, the paper would run a series of articles, and David and Marine would get a lump sum than of a thousand pounds

and a paid vacation to France. Strange way to get a free vacation. December 11th, Myra wrote to her mom again saying, I hope you're not letting the press reports, etc. of the committ will get you down. Remember what I told you? You know Ian and I better than what the papers say. No wonder, the filthy lies Smith is saying

about him and me, it's agony having to sit listening or having to sit listening to them without being able to say a word in defense at the moment. On December 14th, Leslie Ann's mother gave her evidence police officer had to put her arms around her so she didn't collapse to the floor. At one point she turned towards Myra and shouted, I'll kill you! I'll kill you! An innocent baby! December 20th, 1965,

Myra and Ian are committed to stand trial on all charges. So now the actual trial, the criminal trial, will start on April 19th, 19th, 1966, and this next section made me think about people who like listening to a podcast, where the host goes on and on about necrophilia orgies. Have you heard of those? One living person fills a room with a half dozen or more corpses put into various sexual positions,

then hangs a disco ball from the ceiling, hits a spinning disco ball with a laser light while playing a lot of funk records before getting naked, snorting a lot of coke, rubbing a thick layer of grease all over their genitals, then walking around with a big old bottle of lube, fucking one dead person after another for hours. This next section made me think about how people

who want to hear that kind of shit are out there. They're not going to enjoy anything I have to say, though, because I'm not talking about any of that. I'm talking about the criminal trial of 23-year-old Myra Henley and 28-year-old Ian Brady. By now this case was extremely high profile. Myra and Ian were some of the most hated people in Britain

had to have a security protecting them from a lynching. Everyone in court will cry when they hear the tape of what led up to Leslie Ann's murder, right? Judge, jury, court spectators, and the police officers. May 6, 1966, Ian has found guilty. Thanks in large part to that tape. of the murders of John Kilbride, Leslie Ann Downey, and Edward Evans, and he will receive three concurrent life sentences.

Myra found guilty of the murders of Leslie Ann Downey and Edward Evans, and harboring Ian after the murder of John Kilbride, sentenced to two concurrent life terms plus seven years. Judge Fenton Atkinson said Ian was the leader, adding, though I believe that Brady is wicked beyond belief, without hope of redemption, I cannot feel the same as necessarily true of Hinley once she is removed from his influence.

Myra's conviction marked the first time in British legal history when a woman had been convicted along with a man of serial sexual murders. Over the next six years, Myra and Ian will continue to write to one another using coded language to relive their crimes. Right? Those fucking sick, no remorse having fucks. Clearly, she did enjoy it. While in prison, Ian often would go on hunger strikes to get visitation rights with Myra. He was also frequently put in isolation to avoid being attacked by other prisoners.

But 1972, Myra had rededicated herself to Catholicism, kind of, convenient, and started to date some women in prison. Regarding her lesbian lovers in his letters, Ian told her this was okay because she needed to do what she needed to do to survive prison. But he was angered by her return to religion. Myra ended her relationship with Ian, began an affair with a prison guard named Patricia Cairns. Since Myra knew she wasn't getting out of prison any time soon,

she and Cairns made a plan to get Myra out of prison using mold, of Karen's keys. From there, they plan to flee to Brazil and work as Christian missionaries. That's an interesting plan. All right? Let's flee prison for the rape and murders of children, and Myra can go work as a missionary for God. That's a wild plan. They recruited a trustee on Myra's wing to make the molds, which were then smuggled out of prison and given to a contact, but then the trustee snitched and the package was intercepted. Now, Maya receives another 12 months. Cairns gets six years for her role in the escape. Also in the 70s,

Marine makes up with both Myra and her mother. She and David split up when David went to prison himself or attacked him out with a knife, but then later remarried when he got out. That's cool. Marine died in July of 1980. David died many years later, May 5th, 2012. By that time, he had moved to Ireland

where he was running a bed and breakfast with his second wife, Mary. 1977, Mairie began a legal battle to get out of prison. Ian never applied for parole, never tried to profess his innocence like Myra did. Once he knew he was caught, not getting out of it, he came clean with who he was. Ian's parole first denied 1982. Afterwards, he wrote a letter to the Sunday time saying he'd accepted a sense, didn't want to ever be released.

Myra's parole application was delayed until 1985 and then rejected, not allowed to plead her case for another five years. She would never be released from prison, although she would continue to try. one of her most infamous statements was, I know I could be out one week before someone assassinated me, but I at least would have a week of freedom. Ian was transferred to Ashworth, a psychiatric hospital, November of 1995, around that time that he finally confessed to killing Keith Bennett, whose remains had still not been found.

Towards end of 1986, Myra changed tactics by making a public confession. Ian had also spoken to a journalist by this point, so the Manchester police reopened the investigation into the missing children. Investigators knew there could still. be at least two more bodies out on the Moors. In a 1986 interview, Ian revealed that Myra played a much bigger role when he'd previously described, that they were both responsible for the murders of Pauline Reed and Keith Bennett.

Myra had been blaming Ian up to this point and claiming she wasn't present at all during the murders. Both Myra and Ian were taken to the Moors to assist with searches. But then Ian Brady refused to locate his body. Detective Chief Superintendent Steve Haywood, head of GMP, Serious Crime Division said, if he wants to take the opportunity to do the decent thing, then we will listen. But there will be no deals.

This is his final opportunity to come forward and give the information. He knows where Keith Bennett is. Police were advised by experts not to take Ian to the Moors again because it would just fuel his personal gratification. And the cost of him, you know, providing protection to him outside of prison will be too much, too big of a waste of taxpayers' money. Keith's mom publicly begged Ian to stay where the body was buried, saying, I'm pleading with him to get to me or the press or the police and tell me where Keith is.

It is the last time it will be done. It's not fair on me. What I've had to go through. It's been a nightmare for the last 45 years now I've carried on. If he's got any decency or respect for anybody, it should be me. According to C.G.C. Cook's book on the case. In one photo, Myra can be seen wearing the same clothes she wore in the photo, where she looks down on John Kilbride's grave. She's obscuring a sign behind Holland Brown Knoll that was a marker for her.

recently laid methane gas pipeline. The trench for the pipeline was open at the time Keith disappeared. It's possible his body was thrown into the trench because it was open and unattended. Investigators were quoted saying it would cost about 10 million pounds to uncover that pipeline so they did not. February 10th, 1987, Myra formally confesses to participating in all five murders. All right, the evil fuck. But her confession was not made public for over a month.

The recording was 17 hours long and investigators didn't believe a lot of it. As we know, she did her best to minimize her involvement in the actual murders. When confronted with Myra's confession, Ian said he was ready to talk as well, but on the condition that he would be given the means to end his life, which was denied. Authorities continued searching the moors that spring and summer. On July 1st, 1987, police finally found Pauline Reed's body, three feet below the surface, about 100 yards from where Leslie Ann Downey was found. An autopsy was conducted, showing two parallel knife wounds to the neck,

and swelling on the forehead. Crazy they could figure that out. Still after all that time, one of the cuts to the throat had severed her spinal cord. After that news came out, Ian made a formal confession and agreed to help the police.

Was taken to the Moore again, July 3rd, but seemed to have lost his sense of direction or just didn't give a fuck. Search called off August 24th. Ian returned to the Moore again, though. December 8th, claimed to have found Keith Bennett's burial site, but the body was not recovered.

September 30th, 1999, Ian now 63, began a hunger strike after being moved to a psychopath ward of the institution. A nurse had discovered he'd made a knife out of a bucket handle. He protested a feeding tube and restraints. Demanded the right to be allowed to die in March 2000. He had to be forced fed with a feeding tube and was. Love it.

Love that he very much wanted to die. He was so miserable, but they wouldn't let him. November 15, 2002, Myra Hinley did die. Of bronchial pneumonia due to heart disease, she was 60. At the time of her death, she was the longest, serving British woman in prison. Fia hours before she died, she handed over private documents that revealed feelings of hate between her and Ian and accusations of him drugging, raping, and beating her.

I mean, back and forth, those two went until the very end. The Independent announced on October 22nd, the newspaper, 2011, that the police were formally giving up their decades-long search for Keith Bennett's body. Keith Bennett's mother passed away in 2012 without ever knowing where her son's body was. Next year, 2013, Ian brought an appeal before a mental health tribunal to be transferred back to a jail. The hearing was described as a circus. He rambled, gave incoherent answers to questions.

He had been diagnosed at that point with paranoid schizophrenia and narcissistic personality disorder. He claimed he was lying about his mental illness because he had perfected method acting. He's so good at perfecting stuff. Perfect crimes. Perfect acting. He was the greatest actor of his generation. His real motivation for going back to jail was to try and starve himself to death.

He lost his appeal again. Ian Brady finally died after living in misery decades longer than he wanted to, May 15th, 2017 at Ashworth Psychiatric Hospital. Cause of death, restrictive pulmonary disease, he was 79 years old. Just before he died, he ordered that two locked Samsonite briefcases be taken from his bedside handed to his solicitor, Robin Macon. He insisted they could not be open until after his death. The police asked for a court order to open the briefcases, arguing they might contain

information about Keith Bennett's remains, but the application declined on the grounds with no prosecution was likely to result. So we still don't know what might be kept inside those. That fucking asshole wanted to keep tormenting people even after he died. And that will take us out of this timeline. Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely.

Man, the choices some people make. Ian Brady didn't have an easy childhood, right? His dad died before he was born. But then another family took him in. His mom stayed in his life. End up moving in with his mom and stepdad, who by all accounts did not mistreat him. He was actually very close to them until he went to prison, having regular dinners at their house, sometimes right before his bullshit. There's no allegations of physical, sexual, even emotional abuse.

Millions and millions of kids experienced harder childhoods than heeded every year, and they turned out relatively fine. His beloved dog got sick and died, and he decided to say, not only fuck God, but nothing matters and I'll do whatever I want. Such an extreme reaction. true story not bullshit this time my mom literally killed my dog uh sam or golden retriever when i was 11 sam had bit a neighbor kid who was actually trespassing i hated this kid uh tried to take a bone out of sam's mouth he barely broke the skin on this dumb kid's hand to my mom i guess worried that the kid's family would sue unless she got rid of the dog uh didn't take sam to a shelter uh somehow thought the good solution was to take him out in the woods and shoot him told me she found

a rancher who took him in i knew that story was bullshit immediately years later she admitted what done and was I pissed? But yeah. I fucking love that dog. I'm still mad at her for doing that moments. I mean, I don't like fucking carry it around, but I'm like, I just recognize I was fucked up. It's crazy. Was I sad? Of course. So sad that I think, well, might as well rape some kids now since nothing matters. No, no, something in Ian was broken or maybe just never existed.

You know, maybe he was born without something. And Myra, did she have a good childhood? No. No, she was physically abused by her dad. He was a monster. But she survived, graduated high school, got a decent job. you know had a decent guy madly in love with her fucking poor ronnie wanted to marry her but she didn't you know i want to marry him which is fine you know found him boring too traditional okay they want to start having kids young live in the neighborhood and have an average working class life but you can't use that for justification for going along ian's right right which she liked she liked that right enough to relive it through letters in prison after the fact you know at first

when i came across this story i thought you know she might have been okay had she just not pursued Ian, but I don't know. She was fucked up. In the end, I agree with Ian. When he said, Myra was surprisingly in tune with me from the very beginning, she was as ruthless as I was.

He had two ruthless motherfuckers. Time for today's takeaways. Time shock. Top five takeaways. Number one, Myra Hinley and Ian Brady were co-workers who became lovers. Ian, who held very extreme views. and had a pension for sadism,

indoctrinated Myra into his belief system until she was completely devoted to him and willing to do anything, he asked. Myra was obsessed with the inn before he even liked her, didn't want to lose him, which made her very willing to go along with whatever his plans were including murder. And also, she might have just, you know,

enjoyed doing that shit. She was characterized by the press during her trial as the most evil woman in Britain. Number two, Myra and Ian committed the Moore's murder starting in July of 1963, their first victim was Pauline Reed, a girl from Maya's neighborhood. They developed a system of picking out kids or teens from crowded areas

and either bringing them to the isolated Saddleworth Moor or back to Myra's home to kill them and then disposing of their bodies on the Moors. Number three, the murder of Edward Evans, the last of the Moors murders, was committed in front of Myra's brother-in-law, David Smith. He had hoped to recruit David as one of his disciples, but that didn't work out.

The terrified David helped him clean up the crime scene, then called the police hours after the murder and helped extensively with the subsequent investigation. Number four, both Myra and Ian were sentenced to life in prison for the murders, and then two decades after in the 80s, they began to confess to more of their crimes to journalists and police the crimes we cover today. And number five, new info,

the search for poor Keith Bennett's remains revived again a few years ago. On September 30th, 2020, the police began yet another search for the remains on the more after receiving info from an amateur investigator and author named Russell Edwards. Edwards, who did an interview with Mail Online, said he had evidence to suggest that human remains were buried close to where three other victims had been found. The material included soil samples that suggested a human body had been buried there. He found blue and white material at the site, took a picture of an item that looked like a part of a human skull.

Police viewed a photo of what was supposed to be a jawbone, but a spokesperson said it was too early to be certain. On October 1st, police reported that no further remains were found. The search sadly officially ended October 7th with no word they'd found a body. Hopefully new clues emerge soon And his remains can finally be recovered And laid to rest Time suck Top five takeaways

The Moore's murders have been sucked Source material always varies on these episodes And there was a lot of stuff for this one So able to give more details Thanks to the Bad Magic Productions team Help and Making Time suck Thanks to Queen of Bad Magic Lindsay Cummins

and to Logan Keith helping to publish this episode designing merch for the store at bad magic productions.com thanks to Olivia Lee for doing some excellent research this week thanks to the all seen eyes moderating the cult of the curious private Facebook page the mod squad making sure discord keeps running smooth and everybody over on the time sucks subred it and bad magic subred it and now let's head on over to this week's time sucker updates real quick before I share any emails

and all the ultra-runner emails we got, I completely forgot. To promote an ultra-running doc made by Black FIP creative, my friends, the same team that's been working on a doc about Mad Magic, bad magic, excuse me, and me for years. You can find it on YouTube. The 2022 No No Documentary, No, No, No Spaces. It's about Jason Thunel becoming the first Ultramarathon runner to attempt completing the No Business 100 Ultramarathon,

twice in one push. so if you like the Barclay Marathon Short Suck, well, go check it out. You like it. And now the first update sent in to Bojangles at TimesugPodcast.com that I'm sharing comes from a kick-ass sack Rachel Milne, who sent a message in

with a subject line of, how do you say congrats on getting your tits removed? Rachel wrote, Greetings, oh, wonderful suckmaster, leader of the best cult ever. I know you're so, so busy, providing us all with knowledge and entertainment each week. Much appreciated,

but I'm hoping you get in time to see this email. It would mean a lot. the day before Thanksgiving just this past year. My mom was diagnosed with breast cancer, and just today as I'm writing this, she went in for a double mastectomy. Everything happened very quickly, and she's been having a real tough time processing

and accepting all of this. She's a tough mother. She's doing her best, but this is a big change for. She's been appreciative of my dark humor this past month. She refers it to the pitiful, oh, I'm sorry, and of course I believe there are a few that appreciate and execute, dark, borderline, inappropriate humor like Dan B. Cummins. I understand totally, if you don't get to this or decide you don't really have the time,

but I'd like to ask you if you'd be able to dream up one of your signature greeting cards for my mom, any way to lighten up a double mastectomy. Again, I totally get it if this is too much. But if you think you have time, I would be eternally grateful and would even stomp an extra cocker spaniel in your name for Nimrod. Thanks a bunch and Hail Nimrod, Rachel, and then Rachel. Yeah, Rachel, wow, a greeting card request. I wrote those jokes over 20 years ago But this is important

It's your mom, this is serious So here goes my attempt at a sweet Congrats you're getting your tits removed card for your mama Hey sexy lady You've probably heard of boo bros or tit lovers But fiends or ass fanatics But have you heard of an ass-loving tit hater Fuck your tits

No offense, but those jibbly fat lumps are gross How am I supposed to focus on pounding that sweet ass wrecking that tight cum cave. If I got those silly, stupid nipple sacks bouncing around making me hate sex. The dick don't do tits, lady, so get them off. Or go find yourself some other pussy-pounding quiver factory

to send you to O-Town. How is that, Rachel? Classy, I hope. I was going for Classy there. I was really trying to nail Classy. I didn't want it to come across as crude, so I tried to keep it clean. Seriously, so glad that your mom is alive and with you.

And I hope she still knows that you don't need boobs to be beautiful, although I cannot imagine how hard that transition is, right? Thanks for being sweet to your mom. You seem like an amazing daughter. Hail Nimrod to you both. And now for another sweet shout-out. Sweet, sweet sack, Elizabeth Smith,

sent in a message with the subject line of My Beautiful Husband. Hi, Dan and Crew. She writes, my husband, Derris, pronounced like Paris with a D. Derris is a beautiful, wonderful soul that is always looking out for others and will go out of his way to be generous

and kind of strangers. He's my reason for being, my whole world. He loves we, in his cars. Both are things he is very passionate and knowledgeable about. He's a hardest working, most dedicated person everywhere he goes. Owning a Corvette was a dream that he made a reality. It was slash is a big deal for him and he constantly expresses disbelief, standing there, staring at his prize possession and amazement. On his way to his second job, though, in the night of August 17th the last year, another driver ran him off the road where he spun backward

into a tree. He was knocked unconscious and his beautiful 2023 Corvette was totaled. The other driver took off. I woke up the next morning at five to realize he had never been home. He should have been home at 2 a.m. He was not answered, he didn't answer text or calls, knowing he would never choose to not come home. I had a gut feeling he was dead. Not thinking clearly, I went out to his job thinking maybe he had been attacked. He wasn't there. I called the police reported him missing as I sat waiting for the police to arrive at dawned. I mean, he called the two local hospitals. And he was in the neuro, neuro ICU. He suffered a traumatic brain injury, two fractured vertebra in his thoracic spine. Though he returned to work and working out three months after this accident and looks like a goddamn athlete,

he's dealing with the pain and sadness this major trauma brought. We are so fortunate that we had just bought an SD card for the Corvette. We went to the Corvette Museum and Bowling Green a month earlier because the attack, I will not call it an accident, was caught on his dash cam. We're still waiting for the lawyer to resolve things financially and for the police to apprehend the other driver. Daris listens to all your podcasts. We both really enjoy your ability to add humor to every topic. is it if possible,

will you give him a shout out? Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. I know it was a long email. Much loved you from Colorado, Elizabeth Smith. Well, Elizabeth, unfortunately, well, I thank you

for writing in. It's not possible for me to give Daris a shout out. I'm not going to talk about Daris. I'm not going to talk about how great he is. I'm not going to say stuff like, damn, Daris, back to work, working out, looking like a goddamn athlete

after three months, you fucking champ. That's impressive. I'm not going to say stuff that. I'm not going to say, you know, talk about how you saved up for that Corvette and good for you and fucking awesome and it's going to get repaired and insurance are going to take care of things. And if you're not already driving it again, which sounds like you might be, you will be soon. I don't have time to say stuff like that, Elizabeth. Okay. I'm not going to say stuff to Darius like it's way more important to have an amazing partner like Elizabeth in your life than it is to have any car.

And that's the most important thing. And Hale Luce Fina, you're a lucky dude. I fucking won't do that. I don't have time. Hail Nimrod, Elizabeth. You're awesome. I hope you understand. I apologize. Tell Derris, he's awesome too. But I would tell him myself, but again, there's no time.

Finally, a quick silly update from the father of a silly kid, Matt Erickson, who sent in a message with the subject line of Cummins Law. They wrote, Just to have a quick Cummins Law, I thought it was funny. Yesterday, January 12th, 2026. I've been listening to the Chris Gardner episode of my truck. And fast forward a couple hours. I get back in the truck with my seven-year-old. daughter. She asked me some silly seven-year-old kid question. And just then, my truck

starts playing that episode where it left off with Dan saying very loudly, who the fuck knows? L.O.O. She smacked the truck for having naughty language. Anywho, love the show. You know what? Your daughter was right to hit your truck, Matt. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I don't use filth in my show. If anyone were to say one thing about me, it should be that he keeps it clean. I want that on my tombstone. Dan Cummins, he kept it clean. Yeah, I don't use that kind of language, but your truck does. Your truck's a low-down potty-mouth motherfucker, and your truck just said that too. You need to get checked out before it keeps saying fucked up shit. Hail Nimrod. And thanks for the clean messages, everybody. So keep it clean. I'm suckers. I needed that. We all did. Thank you for listening to another

Bad Magic Productions podcast. If I seem squirrelier than usual, it's because I haven't had sugar in fucking Tente. I'm ready to fucking kill somebody. Be sure in rate and review time suck, if you haven't already. Don't decide that nothing matters, so you might as well rape and kill some kids because your dog got sick and died

when you were a kid this week, you pathetic maniac. The world's on fucking fire right now. Don't add to the evil. Be nice. Get your shit together. Keep on sucking. And magic productions. Hey, listen up.

Listen up. Hey, hey, it's important. If you can't handle me talking in detail about an annual shit, shit eating contest, a literal shit eating contest in Georgia, where 10 men have 10 minutes each to eat as much of their own shit as possible, shit that they have been saving up up to a month beforehand, put in a big plastic garbage bag, a bag that's been laying out unrefigerated in the heat and is full of maggots, because part of the contest is it five pounds of maggots are added to each and every shit bag, which makes a lot of guys throw up. And if you throw up, you have to lick up all your own vomit before you get back to eat and your maggot infested shit. And if you get sick and, you get sick and, shit during the 10 minutes, you have to lick that up too unless you're able to shit the maggot shit into some opponent's mouth, which is not only allowed but encouraged. Don't you worry your pretty little head, because I was going to talk about that a lot,

but it's, you know, I think it's fucking crazy, even though I'm not sure it's real. But now that the show's over, it doesn't make sense to talk about that, does it? Does it? So great news. You dodged a bullet. You didn't have to hear anything gross. You don't have to ever hear me talk about that. You don't have to think about that ever again.

Are you fucking came me? I said, I'm fucking kidding. You shut the fuck up, Miles.