Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 501 - The Ant Hill Kids: Most Brutal Cult Ever?

Episode Date: April 6, 2026

Roch Thériault promised his followers healing, purpose, and a closer connection to God — but what he built in the wilderness of Canada became something far, FAR more sinister. As his control tightened, faith twisted into fear, and “treatment” became torture. This is the story of the Ant Hill Kids. A story of how belief, isolation, and absolute power created one of the most disturbing cults in modern history. Merch and more: www.badmagicproductions.com  Timesuck Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious PrivateFacebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :) For all merch-related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste) Please rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna become a Space Lizard? Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast. Sign up through Patreon, and for $5 a month, you get access to the entire Secret Suck catalog (295 episodes) PLUS the entire catalog of Timesuck, AD FREE. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Imagine trusting a person so completely that when they tell you to lie down on a table for an operation, you don't even ask why. And you know they will provide you no anesthesia. You know that they have zero formal medical training. They don't even have medical tools, just hunting knives, some alcohol, handled by a man who is somehow convinced you that God is guiding his hands. And you believe him. You believe him because he speaks with such certainty because everyone else around you seems to believe him as well. You mostly believe him because the alternative that you've sold all of your belongings and cut off all ties with who you used to be that you've handed your life over to a sadistic

madman is too terrifying to accept. But then the pain starts. And somewhere underneath all you're screaming, you begin to realize something worse than death, that God is not in the room, but something else is something evil. Today I share one of the darkest stories I I've ever shared on TimeSuck, a story of very little critical thinking and a whole bunch of nonsensical beliefs, psychological and sexual torment and humiliation, and oh, so much violence. The story of the Ant Hill Kids cult this week on another, how is this shit even real edition of TimeSuck? This is Michael McDonald, and you're listening to TimeSuck. You're listening to TimeSuck. Well, happy Monday and welcome to hell.

I mean the cult of the curious, but it will kind of be hell this week. Dan Cummott's master sucker, known drug addict, filth purveyor. And you are listening to Time Suck. Hail Nimrod, hail Lucifina, praise be to good boy Bojangles and Glory B to Triple M. I hope you're good.

I'm feeling good. Not feeling as good as last week. But pretty good. As good as one can feel. After getting into the weeds off of this week's darkness, don't do drugs. Don't do some drugs. Recording this before last week's show came out, I'm sure I'll have some interesting updates from that one for next week.

Right now, holy shit, do I have so much show for you. This is a topic I've thought about a lot over the years. I came across the Ant Hill kids very early on in the history of Timesuck, year one, I think. Oh, Rock Terrio, the most brutal cult leader I have ever come across. Even by Time Suck standards, some of the passages of mutilation and humiliation today are just particularly awful. But because this took place in Quebec, almost every good source on Rock and his cult is written in French. Most of the best sources are only written in French. And the best source in English has been out of print for years and is not available in e-book form, which makes compiling

information on the Ant Hill Kids very cumbersome. I used secondary sources to put together a live show on the Ant Hill Kids back in, I think it was 2018, maybe 2018 and 2019. And I think we're going to have the shirt I was selling on that tour back in the store at bad magic productions.com. Hopefully by the time you hear this, I survived the Ant Hill kids. One of my favorite shirts Logan ever did. Finally, I felt like I was ahead enough on both timesuck and scared to death to tackle this cult for a proper time suck episode. Very different than the live show. And making a little trickier, I did lose my original live show notes.

I had this weird memory where I'll struggle sometimes to remember the door code for my own house. I'll totally blank on it. I'll blank on close relatives' birthdays and moments or struggle to remember like what I had for dinner the day before. But random-ass info about some serial killer or cult, that shit gets locked in forever. And when I dug back into this topic,

oh man, it was driving me crazy. I had a really hard time finding the sources of some of the most upsetting and memorable moments from this cult that I'd used initially for the live shows. It's driving me fucking crazy. But in the end, I found them. And then I found a lot more French stories I hadn't found back in 2018

when I was looking for that. stuff, able to use some online translators to figure out what the hell they were talking about. And in the end, I think I've put together a pretty comprehensive episode on such a fucked up dude in this cult. So buckle up. The childhood and early adulthood section is going to be pretty tame. Once we make it out into the woods, woo-wee! Holy fuck, is this ride going to head off the rails?

So here we go. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time-sunk timeline. Time now to begin at the beginning for this big-ass timeline. Before the commune, before the beatings, the mutilations, before the confusing and convoluted sermons delivered in the woods like commands from God, before anyone ever called him Moses, back before he ever asked anyone to call him Moses. There was just a boy named Pat Seajack.

I mean Roy Disney. I mean Twinkie McBoof Bottom. I really mean Rock Silvan Terrio. Rock was pushed out of his mother's pooper, like the rare and special. stinky butt baby he was. Or perhaps, I don't know, maybe he was delivered naturally and vaginally. On May 16th, 1947, in the little 800-ish-person village of San Ipefan, the French-speaking province of Quebec up in Canada.

It looks more like a loose collection of farms and homes on acreages than it does a proper town, rolling farmland, a lot of cows and crops. It's very rural and pastoral and cold, lots of snow. Saan-Apefan sits due north of the... the northernmost point of Maine along the St. Lawrence River. Rock was born into a French-Canadian working-class Roman Catholic family, like most families in the area. He was the second of seven children. His father, Hyacinth Terrio and his mother, Pierrette, raised their kids in what most outside observers would later describe as a stable, unremarkable home.

There was no obvious chaos, no widely documented, patent of abuse, pattern of abuse, no early intervention. for many authorities, nothing that would signal, at least to the outside world, who or what Rock would eventually become. Or at least that's one version of the story. There is another. Years later, long after Rock had begun referring to himself

as a prophet, long after he had gathered most of his followers and established control over them, he would tell a very different story about his childhood, much darker and violent one. Now, can we trust his account? Oh, oh, fuck, no, probably not. Trusting a cult leader to tell you the truth about their childhood is like trusting a rabid dog not to bite you

when you try and pull a bone out of his mouth. But who knows? Maybe there is some truth in his account. According to Rock, his father, Hyacinth was an alcoholic who was very physically abusive, an angry, often drunk, and always brutal, domineering man,

a man who beat him relentlessly from a young age. He claimed that he was mistreated, quote, like a dog, and that by the age of 14, he had been cast out of the family home entirely, abandoned, rejected, and forced to fend for himself. This account does read like a compelling narrative to explain how Rock became who he became. If true, it offers us a clean psychological path.

He didn't have some personality defect any of us could have. He didn't follow some narcissistic series of delusions and excuses and manipulations out of the blue. Now, he was beaten into who he became. Early abuse becomes the explanation for the monster we will meet later. Trauma becomes Rock's origin story. But this version of events only comes from Rock, and it does not consistently hold up across the best available and most reliable sources. Investigations into his early life, particularly those drawn from interviews with relatives,

friends, neighbors, et cetera, and records compiled and what many seem to believe is the best source on Rock and the Ant Hill Kids, a book called Savage Messiah by Paul Kyla and Ross Lever, suggested that Rock, excuse me, remained with his family well into early adulthood, that he was not in fact expelled at 14, if anything, he was coddled, spoiled and indulged and not made defend for himself before he probably should have been. That whatever tensions existed in the household, and there likely were some, as there are in most houses, of course, did not even come remotely close to rising to the level of the extreme abuse he later described. Maybe Baby Boy should have been beaten. Maybe he wasn't beaten enough.

Maybe he should have had that ego and hubris knocked out of him that went on to do what he did. It is actually important to lay out this contradiction in origin stories because it introduces, one of the earliest and most important patterns in rock Terrio's life. He didn't just tell stories to others, like so many cult leaders, pretty much all of them, he also rewrote his own. Also, before moving on, I don't know who hijacked his Wikipedia page, but it has all kinds of crazy shit in it that does not appear in any reliable sources, a bunch of garbage, such as, quote, Terrio was destined by his mother to become a priest, but was ostracized by other family members due to having been born from an incestuous rape of his mother by his grandfather.

Terry O was frequently beaten by his stepfather throughout his childhood, and his mother was too scared to protect him from that abuse. None of that seems to be true at all. Dude didn't even have a stepdad growing up, according to pretty much all the other sources. Not sure why anyone would try and make his story appear even crazier than it is. By the time this is all over, you'll see that the truth, plenty fucking crazy on its own, like way more crazy than anyone would need.

When Rock was six, his family moved to the town of Thetford Mines. Guessing his dad got a job there, perhaps working in the mines. Sources aren't clear about that. Thetford Mines is a three-hour drive southwest from San Ibe Fon, south of Quebec City by about an hour and 20 minutes drive. It has a little over 26,000 people today. Most people living there at the time Rock grew up there, connected in one way or another to asbestos mining. When Rock was a kid, it was known as the asbestos capital of the world. and the city of white gold referring to asbestos,

which is a group of six naturally occurring fibrous minerals, once widely used for insulation, fireproofing, and construction due to their durability and heat resistance. But then its use began to be phased out in the late 70s because so many people started to die who had been exposed to it for long periods of time. It's toxic as fuck. The little microscopic fibers can be inhaled or swallowed

and lead to lung cancer or a mesoth... mesoth... mesothelioma. There we go. A rare aggressive cancer of the lining of the lung or the stomach, primarily caused by asbestos exposure.

Also been linked to ovarian and gastrointestinal cancers and is directly responsible for asbestosis, a chronic lung condition involving scarring and inflammation leading to difficulty breathing.

Poetically fitting in a way that such a cancerous person would grow up in such a cancerous place. Guessing the town is not exactly trying to promote its former asbestos capital of the world

title these days. Probably more of a point of shame, I would guess now. That would be like advertising your town as the lead paint capital of the world. The polluted drinking water, capital of the world. A quick fucked up fact about Thetford mines before moving forward.

When Canada finally banned the use of asbestos in schools and homes after using it for years as insulation, the mines of Thetford mines kept on operating and they just began to export their asbestos to areas such as thursdays to Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and South and Central America,

so they could use it in their schools and homes. And that's pretty dark. Maybe their lungs are different than ours, eh? Maybe it's just like a Canadian cancer or something. Asian and Persian and Arabian kids. Maybe it'll be good for them, eh? Anyways, I know that's a terrible accent. Anyways, a child.

Rock did stand out, not for anything sexual or violent or, you know, claiming to be a prophet, but for intelligence. He was later described by former teachers and fellow students as being a bright kid, intensely curious and capable of absorbing info quickly, even without formal structure. And by that, I mean, he wasn't just absorbing what was being taught from the lesson plans.

He was going off script, doing additional learning on his own, had a very active mind. Probably just smart enough to be dangerous. Despite this, though, he did not pursue a long academic path. His formal education appears to have ended relatively early, possibly around the equivalent of eighth grade. Two of his sons will say he stopped going to school when he was 14. so he could start making money. Leaving school did not stop him from continuing to read, study.

Though, in true cult leader fashion, didn't stop him from developing a superiority complex to, you know, didn't stop him from building up him a sense of himself as someone much more knowledgeable than everybody around him was. In rural largely solely French-speaking Quebec, I taught himself English, something that at the time was far less common than it is now,

and that for sure fueled his feeling of superiority. right another reinforcement that he was different special better and now let's talk about rock's very unique religious upbringing uh religion was always present in rock's childhood and intensely so his parents were not just catholic they were super fucking catholic his father was heavily involved in an obscure very weird catholic lay organization known informally as the white berets uh the white berets were exactly like the green berets except they couldn't fight for sure shit, didn't know how to handle literally any weapons, were not in very good shape, and no one ever deployed them on any important missions or missions at all. Not even one time, and not a single

White Beret has ever won any kind of military award or any award, not even a spelling bee or cakewalk. But other than that, pretty much the same group. For real now, the white berets were what the Pilgrims of St. Michael were called, a Roman Catholic organization that originated in Quebec in 1939 that prompted and still, or excuse me, that promoted and still promoted, seems some kind of wackadoodle social credit economic theory in Canada and other countries. They blend religious messaging with political and economic ideology, rooted in a kind of populist anti-establishment worldview that initially emerged during the Great Depression. And there again, weird.

Their unique vision of social credit economics has been embraced by exactly zero nations. after almost 90 years of them continually promoting it. And I'm going to predict that no nation will ever adopt it. I also think that their borderline gibberish influenced Rock Terrio quite a bit. Because his dad dragged him around door to door for years, talking about shit that makes honestly very little sense. Stuff that sounds a bit culty to me at times. Let's take a little detour and dig into it for a little bit

so you can see what I mean by that. The white berets were founded by Louis, Yvonne, And Gilbert Cote Mercier, two people whose histories you can learn about on the group's website, Michaeljournal.org, if you're bored, a website incidentally that looks like it was built sometime around 1998 and has not been substantially updated since. Louis, Yvonne, I got to say, he looks a lot like Willem Defoe if he had had a traumatic brain injury. I know that's cruel. I know that's cruel, but that is truly the first thing I saw, or thought of, you know, when I saw a pick of him.

But I know that's not helpful for our educational purposes here. More helpful to first look into his co-founder's history to understand this group. Check out the first paragraph of Gilbert Cote-Mercise's biography. Gilbert was born into a Catholic family to Rosario Cote and Josephine Gierpie, Gereepie, Jesus Christ, Gariapie. There we go. Josephine was a pure woman who learned about marital obligations only at the time of her. her engagement to Rosario.

She retained an endearing naivity all her life. In the 1950s, seeing women so immodestly attired, she told her daughter, Zilbert, these bad styles will lead us to great sufferings. When we see the near destruction of the family, divorce, suicide, abortion, etc., we can see that her prediction for many years ago has been realized. If, like Mrs. Cote, women had preserved their sense of modesty and their purity by dressing decently. These great misfortunes might have been avoided. Wow. Women, thou dearest bicycles. Don't you know she'd always strive to be modest and naive? The less your pretty heads know the better.

Just be empty, plainly dressed vessels for us men folks to train. I mean love. So cool that her mom didn't even know what sex was when she got engaged. Huh? So that, what, that's what that hole's down there is for? Really? That's why I bleed every month out of that mystery hole. I see It sounds like her mom was a complete fucking moron who could have been talking into anything

No no no no It has to go in your mouth And then your butt And then your mystery hole Otherwise our baby will be satanic Oh goodness Well we'll just make sure

It always goes in my mouth Then my butt And then my mystery hole then Thank you wise protective husband This woman's daughter Who'd be introduced To some social credit Mumble Jumbo

In the mid-1930s According to Gilbert Cotei Mercier's bio a member of a meeting of landlords Quote invited Zilbert's to her home and explained social credit to her Gillesbart brimmed with enthusiasm here was what she had been seeking

the solution to the problem of poverty she understood the problem was an artificial one after all food was produced in abundance in Canada as in other countries stores and warehouses overflowed with goods even in the hardest years of the Depression but there was an outdated system of distributing goods caused by the banker's debt money system

The bankers owned the money system. They created money out of thin air and lent it to governments, businesses and individuals with interest. Everyone thus became indebted. When banks decided not to lend further, the volume of money in circulation was restricted causing economic havoc, such as bankruptcies and unemployment. Gilbert understood that this was the worst swindle of all time. People were starving in a time when products were abundant, and this abundance was made by the very people who could not access it because money was not available.

to them. Was there anything more illogical, barbaric, and inhumane? But is that, actually, how money came to be invented out of thin air by bankers? Mm-hmm. Just one day, just a bunch of bankers just appeared out of nowhere and we're like, okay, hey, no more sharing everything. God damn it, everyone's too happy. That shit's fucking over now. We just invented money, puss faces, and if you want shelter or clothes, you have to have it now. Good times are over, and you can only get it from us, we will charge you all interest, and you will all be in debt forever. Muh ha ha ha ha ha ha. It sounds like a bunch of fucking six-year-olds trying to explain economic principles.

That's bullshit. No, currency first developed as a solution to the limitations of bartering, evolving organically from commodity-based exchange of livestock, grain, salt, etc., into standardized metal ingots about 4,500 years ago, finally into stamp coins so that civilization could flourish, thanks to not everyone needing to grow grains, fruits, vegetables, hunt, etc. Anymore, right? Raise livestock. With money, people could earn a living and feed, clothes, and house themselves, while also working specialty jobs such as an engineer who could build aqueducts

or as a soldier making sure that farmers and ranchers aren't wiped out by their enemies or as a teacher moving society forward by instructing people in ways that allow them to grow up and become doctors, artisans, cobblers, etc. Without money, we would all still be fending for ourselves trying to live off the land, whether we had that skill set or not, or we'd be living in small tribal bands, never developing any complex, architectural, industrial, medicinal, technical skills, etc. There is literally no modern developed world without money. But anyway, later on, Gillesbart's bio makes it clear that social credit is not communism,

writing even during her university studies Marxist ideas were beginning to infiltrate both professors and students alike. Gillesbart did not let herself be caught up in Marxist ideology. on the contrary. She had a clarity and resistance to communism born in her Catholic faith. Okay, so she's definitely not into capitalism, but definitely not into communism either. It's kind of some new form of socialism adjacent shit, no money. Listen, I've read a lot of other stuff,

and I think the more I've read, the less I understand it. It reminds me of a bunch of cult speak, right? Just some simplistic, nonsensical, feel-good bullshit of money is evil. God is good. We should all live together and share everything. everything and worship how I see fit and we'll all be fine. Soon Gilbert came to meet Louis Yvann, the other co-founder, according again to their website, Mrs. Rosario Cotei invited Louis

to present lectures on social credit at her home in St. Joseph's Boulevard and Montreal. The first two meetings took place on March and March, 1937, priests, lawyers, doctors, other professionals were invited with 75 people attending each of the sessions. The group's newspaper or pamphlet was called Verde's Domain, aka Towards Tomorrow, and the first issue was published in September of 1939. In 1941, the founders launched an appeal to young people to join this movement on a full-time basis.

Again, from Gilbert Cote-Mercier's bio, Mrs. Cote-Marcier was uncompromising when it came to defending justice and the right to the poor. She traveled across the provinces of Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick, and Western Canada, friends, Switzerland and Brazil, to spread social credit. but she really didn't because no one fucking bought it. Essays written by her continue to be decimated around the world, but read by almost no one. Today, the group continues to publish Ver's domain, or Dumon, aka Towards Tomorrow,

in French, English, Polish, and Spanish, and also a journal called Michael. Not sure who the fuck is reading this dribble, but they publish it. According to their website, the journal Michael does not report the scores of the last baseball season, nor bring the reader up to date on who in Hollywood is getting a third or fourth divorce. We do not discuss sensational events such as murders, robberies, and traffic accidents. There are no paid ads from supermarkets or car dealerships. A glance to the magazine, published five times each year in four different languages, will demonstrate that we address monetary issues and matters of faith.

The aim of Michael is straightforward. To promote the development of a better world, by applying Christian principles, especially in the sphere of economics, the reader can confirm. we will always take a position against anything that threatens the natural order in Christianity. Michael is named for St. Michael the Archangel, the leader of the angels who fought Satan and the rebellious angels. St. Michael stands with those among us, seeking the triumph of good against evil. The apostles of the pilgrims of St. Michael similarly are inspired by the battle for justice. We are located in Quebec, Canada, where our parish church is named as St. Michael's.

So what the fuck is social credit exactly, though? They still haven't defined that in a meaningful way. again according to their website Please explain in simple terms What is social credit Couldn't I sum up the gist of it in a single sentence Certainly I could Even in two words Practical Christianity

But let me expand a little Social credit is a name Given to a certain movement Of the human mind and spirit Not in organization Which stems originally from the mind And writings of a man of great insight and genius The late Clifford Hugh Douglas

Its aim is to bind back to reality or express in practical terms in the current world, especially the world of politics and economics, those beliefs about the nature of God and man in the universe, which constitute the Christian faith as delivered to us from our forefathers, and not as altered and perverted to suit current politics or economics, which stem from a non-Christian source. Okay? They continue.

It is often the best Christians who are the most wary about getting involved in politics or economics, because experience has taught them that this commonly means putting Caesar before God, that is, in modern terms, giving some passionately held political or economical belief or ideology precedence over Christianity. Thus, if we define religion as that fundamental belief about the nature of things, which determines and directs a man's life and behavior, his life policy, so to speak, in such cases it is the ideology, whether of left or right or center, of this party or of that, which is the man's actual religion.

His Christianity is a secondary matter, a mere opinion, which he favors but does not bind back to the real world. It was Douglas who wrote Christianity is either something. and inheriting the very warp and woof of the universe, or to just a set of interesting opinions to those who adapt the faith to fit their politics or economics, it is clearly the latter. The movement has been influencing the world for 60 years. Its effects have been widespread but unpublicized.

One of its gifts to the human mind and at least the English language is the term the social credit without caps, which is the name of something which exists in all societies, but which never had a name before because it was taken for granted, we become aware of it only as we lose it, Credit is another word for faith or confidence, so we can also call it the faith or confidence which binds any society together, the mutual trust or belief in each other,

without which fear is substituted for trust as the cement of society. Though no society can exist without some social credit. It is at its maximum where the Christian religion is practiced, and at its minimum, where it is denied and deride it. The social credit is thus, a result or practical expression of real Christianity in society one of the most recognizable fruits, and it is the aim and policy of social creditors to increase it and strive to prevent its decrease.

There are innumerable. Shut the fuck up. What are you talking about? Does everyone still following this? If you are, that's amazing, because I'm not. And they just go on and on, and they never define shit. It's just fucking babble.

And, uh, yeah. It just reminds me of all the other word salad, wacky little bullshit I've read over the years from fringe religious groups that make very few points, like practical points, as to how a system, if you can even call this a system, would actually work in the real world, and just a lot of fluffy language.

The whole thing seems to be based in this very childlike, extremely naive, and we know they love being naive, a vision for the world where everybody is the exact same kind of Roman Catholic, everyone interprets the Bible in the exact same way, all the world's resources and goods are magically evenly distributed to all according to their need by, I don't know, the Pope or somebody. And this is what Rock Terrio's dad got very into. He went to all kinds of meetings for years.

He dressed up in his suit and put on a white beret and went door to door for hours when he wasn't working, often dragging Little Rock along with him, handing out pamphlets, you know, asking to be invited into people's homes to get them to ideally join the white berets, be part of this theocratic revolution. He kind of went door to door asking people to join his cult. I mean, they didn't and don't have a compound. but the ideology a little cult like to me.

It can easily be adapted to a cult in the sense of a message like, money's the root of all evil, the bankers will stop at nothing to continue to control the world and crush our soul, so come with me to my compound in the woods where we could share everything

as Christ intended and forsake the evil money hungry outside world. I mean, if rock's being dragged from door to door by his dad for years while dad's preaching this shit, I imagine he was forced to, you know, become pretty, you know, adept at understanding

this stuff himself. He was very, he was indoctrinated into understanding this stuff if you could, whatever you're able to understand about this. And I wonder if looking back on this later, he thought, if some people are buying the bullshit my dad was selling, well, then there's got to be some people out there who will buy the bullshit that I've made up. Or at the very least, he subconsciously absorbed a lot of that info, and it came out in weird ways later in his cult ideology. As a kid, Rock allegedly hated this, though. hated going door to door to preach that message. He would later develop a deep resentment toward organized religion, particularly Catholicism,

not necessarily toward the idea of God or spirituality, but towards religious institutions, authority structures, systems that claim to speak on behalf of something divine. But that resentment did not turn him away from religion forever, maybe just made him want to control it, made him want to be the one who was the institution speaking for the divine, which would be a pretty typical cult leader attitude. As Rock entered adulthood, he initially followed what appeared to be a relatively conventional path despite this upbringing. And before we explore that path, time for today's first to two mid-show sponsor breaks. If you don't want to hear these ads ever again, please sign up to be a space lizard on Patreon,

help us make monthly charitable contributions, get the catalog ad-free, episodes three days early and more. Thanks for listen to our sponsors, and now let us head to late 1967. On November 11th, 1967, when he was 20 years old, Rock married a young woman named Francine Grunier. They'd met the year before to dance when he was 19 and she was 16. The couple go on to have two sons together. We will show up a lot in this episode. Rock Silvan, aka Rock Jr., born in...

And the junior is not the Sylvain. His dad also is Rock Silvan. Born in January of 1969, and Francois, or Francois, born in April of 1971. Most likely. Only one source I could find mentions the month and years of their birth. But if those dates are not exact,

they're close. They're very close based on doing some reverse engineering from some age references that the boys make in their book. These two boys will write about their dad and growing up in his cult in a book called The Sons of Moses, the story of two boys raised in hell

published in 2009. Unfortunately, only available in French. But again, thanks to online translators, you know, you can, slowly converted into English. To me, after reading it, this book is a great companion piece to Savage Messiah, one of the best sources of info out there about the Anheil Kids. Rock Jr. and Francois, they really take us inside the formation of the cult in a very personal,

detailed way. Francine will tell her boys that at the dance where they met, their father Rock was apparently quite the looker back in the days before he went bald, started wearing mainly tunics, rarely bathed and grew out a massive zizi top fucking wizard profit beard And he was a good dancer All the girls were swooning over him apparently She ignored him which piqued his interest And he worked extra hard to winter over

They soon moved to Montreal Where they rented an apartment and Rock found work Eventually become employed in roles connected to home inspections Including chimney and fire-related duties Seems as if he worked for the fire department For a few years there To the outside world, it looked like life was moving along for Rock in a very normal, healthy, successful mainstream way.

You know, he gets married, he's having kids, you know, staying employed with good jobs, shit's stable. But then in 1969, two years after he gets married, something random happens that may have tilted him towards Koltem. Rock undergoes two separate surgeries for his stomach ulcer. He had to have part of his stomach removed due to severe gastric distress. Following the second surgery, while he is in intensive care that Francine gives birth to their first child, Rock Jr.

After the second surgery, Rock reportedly began to suffer. from chronic digestive problems and persistent pain, conditions that did not improve despite him seeing a variety of specialists. And pain, especially long-term, poorly understood pain, you know, can definitely change a person. It can darken not just your mood, but your entire worldview. In Rock's case, it may have contributed to a growing sense that he needed to look outside of Western medicine's teachings to heal himself,

a path that would lead him to thinking that he was a healer, he was a doctor. And that will be very fucking bad for a lot of people in the people. years ahead. Just a few weeks after Rock Jr's birth, Rock and Francine moved back to Thetford Mines, living in an apartment initially downtown. Fransy, not too happy about the move, but Rock had insisted. He'd become convinced that his stomach problems were due to the stress and pollution of living in a large city. He wanted to go back home, be closer to the wilderness, have more of what he called country air to breathe. After recovering somewhat from his stomach problems, I mean, he'll have it lifelong, but, you know, after getting a little better after the surgeries, he starts to work

in a small woodworking shop next to his parents' house. Very skilled with his hands. He starts making and selling stuff like wooden beer steins, as well as other handcrafted items, which allow him to earn some money. Then he becomes a carpenter and a cabinet maker and starts splitting time between working in Thetford mines and also Quebec City.

Rock Jr. will later remember a taste of the physical cruelty Rock will later display as a sadistic cult leader from around this time. When he was just a toddler, he said his dad brought him to work one day. A little guy only around two years old Was exploring his surroundings like little kids do When his dad grabbed him For wandering too close to some dangerous machinery

Told him to stay in some area of the shop After a while, little man got bored Started to explore his surroundings again And then he heard his dad call out Rock Sylvan, look over here He turned to look at his father And a shovel full of sawdust Hit him right in the face

Apparently his dad had lost his temper Decided to teach him a little lesson A dude just fucking blasted little man in the eyes With a shovel full of sawdust for disobeying him. In Junior's words, the cloud of sawdust blinded me and choked me instantly. I rubbed my face vigorously to see clearly again. I coughed and spat without quite understanding what had just happened. I was then slapped, struck so hard across the face it made me stagger. My nose began to bleed profusely. In shock, I started sobbing. I was disoriented. I tried to

understand why my father had hit me like that and with such force. My nose was bleeding so badly that my father had no choice. He had to take me back to Grandma's house next door so she could take care of me. I was completely dazed and terrified. I felt like I was in the middle of a nightmare. Even now, I can still see myself miserably sitting in Grandma's kitchen. My head bowed, already trying to forget everything. Damn. Call me crazy, but I don't think there was a point in time when this would be considered remotely normal. This wasn't taking a belt to the boy under the purview of a, you know, spare of the rod, spoiled a child kind of mentality. That was just cruel and sadistic. And Rock was definitely a cruel and sadistic man when he could get away with it. And this little shop he worked out, by the way, it may have been owned by his dad. Sources don't say that explicitly, but it seems weird to me that it was right next door to Rock's parents, which also kind of also showed that, like, if they were so fucking cruel and, you know, he had this stepdad and all that nonsense, it's like, well, then why is he working right there? Anyway, within a year or two, Rock and Friends scene will buy a little plot of land, and Rock will literally build a house on this lot that is less than a kilometer from the home. he grew up in on a hill very close to a small airport. Rock's parents, you know, they're very close,

they're living nearby, as is one of Rock's brothers and his brother's family. So the two boys have grandparents to watch him and cousins to play with. His boys will later say that the house their dad built was gorgeous, super impressive. He was a talented builder. That skill set will definitely come in handy later when he's out in the woods with his coat. The house had a spacious living room with a large stone fireplace. In the very center of the room was a huge wooden chandelier. another one of their dad's creations. Main floor also had a beautiful kitchen, a bathroom, a guest room. Upstairs was Rock and Francine's room in another room for Rock Jr. and Francois.

To the right of the master bedroom, a door opened out into a big balcony, offering a magnificent panoramic mountain view. Rock Jr. will write that his happiest childhood memories were built while they lived in this home, that they had a dog Foxy, some big strong German shepherd that Rock loved. His dad could be very playful with the dog, take him, and the tick the dog and, you know, the two boys for walks in the nearby woods. With Foxy, though, Rock also exhibited some more of his sadistic side. As Rock Jr. later recalled, quote,

my father loves playing with Foxy, and he's always pushing the boundaries of the game. The dog usually comes out of these little exercises quite shaken. So on the way back from our walk, we stop at the edge of the lake, and there, Dad firmly grips Foxy's leash, then lifts him off the ground, spinning him through the air like an Olympic athlete throwing a hammer. Once released, our Foxy leaps about 20 feet before landing back in the lake with a big splash.

Leap or thrown. Every time we burst out laughing, watching him swim back to shore, and then shake himself dry. What the fuck? That's not a game. That's torture. O'Jangles is not amused.

I don't think Foxy was enjoying this game. Foxy was terrified. Around this time, Rock, we'll join Le Club Arme, the French version of the Shriners, I guess, where he soon alienated fellow members, most of whom were Roman Catholic, with continual and aggressive anti-Catholic diatribes,

starts getting real vocal, real confrontational with his religious beliefs, also starts drinking heavily, maybe partially doing some pain management regarding his ongoing stomach ailment and his marriage deteriorates. Rock Jr. remembers them starting to fight all the time, again in his words,

arguments and raised voices became increasingly frequent. I remember with great clarity the first real quarrel I witnessed. Upon returning home in the early hour, of the morning after a night of heavy drinking. My parents launched into a heated argument immediately after the babysitter left. I was jolted awake by the violence of the altercation,

taking place in their bedroom. Keep it down, my mother begged. You'll wake the children. I then saw my father approach our bedroom, the door of which was a jar. Those children are mine, and I'll wake them if I want. Then my father smashed the large glass jar that was sitting on the dresser.

Crying with rage, my mother rushes to clean up the mess, while my father continues to shout at the top of his lungs. I notice how tense his limbs are. I shiver with fear and yet I can't bring myself to be angry with him. With my father, whom I love, whom I adore. Then the storm ends, as suddenly as it came. Soon Rock begins to look outside his marriage for happiness. He started to engage in several extramarital affairs,

lying about business trips to sell various wooden items he had made. But really, he was meeting up with various women in Quebec City, disappearing for varying lengths of time, pursuing pretty in-depth romantic relationships outside the home, while his wife remained behind to care for the kids. He first starts seeing a woman named Giselle LaFrance, an artist, Rock Jr., will remember meeting when he went up with his dad to Quebec City on a business trip.

For some reason, his two sons will refer to her as Louiselle. Not sure what accounts for this name discrepancy. Rock did do a lot of renaming people later. They will make things confusing in moments. Unsurprisingly, financial problems developed at home around this time. He was making a blue-collar living, barely enough to provide for his wife. and kids, not enough to provide for a wife and kids, and also whining and dining some mistresses.

Eventually, the situation collapses entirely like it almost always does. Rock's marriage falls apart in the mid-70s. His sons will remember Christmas of 1976 as the last time their parents celebrated a holiday together. Their home gets repossessed, not long afterwards. Rock is now 29 years old. Unable to pay some mounting debts, he declares bankruptcy and then just bounces, taking some personal belongings in his car. Francine and the kids will not initially know where he goes or when he will be seen again.

And then when Francine can't make the monthly payments on the property, she and the boys move into a second floor apartment in downtown Thetford Mines on Omera Street. And by this time, Rock has also brewn up some new and strange plans for the future. Some co-leader plans, as Rock Jr. will recall. One morning he decides to take me with him on a trip for several days. A business trip, as he calls it, I'm over the moon. On the way to Quebec City, my father makes me promise to keep a secret. He confides

in me that he has met someone new. You know, son, he says, there's a higher power who reigns above us all. You mean God, I ask? Yes, the eternal one, he says. Since my two operations, I've decided to put my life in his hands. And he reveals his truth to me during the night, my father

says with utmost seriousness. But how does God speak to you? I ask. He reveals the future to me in my sleep, what we call dreams of revelations. My eyes are wide open. When he comes to speak to me, I see him in his white tunic. It doesn't happen to everyone, but he has chosen me to fulfill a great mission on earth. But, Dad, what is your mission, I ask? He shows me a new path to follow, no matter the

obstacles. I must trust him, for I am now his instrument. Uh-oh. He show me new faces I've never seen before. I must find all these people, then gather them together to save them, for the end is near my son. I look at him a little perplex, says his son. I don't understand where he's going with all this. the woman I'm going to introduce you to today in Quebec City is precisely one of the people I'm looking for, he says, and there will be many others. There are also men I haven't yet met. Then Rock Jr. says, well, I try to decipher the meaning of his words, he continues. You know, Roxelon, I still love your mother, but this new path I've taken by the grace of the Almighty doesn't allow me to stay with her. You're going to leave home? We won't be a family anymore, I ask. No, it's over, he says. But I will always be with you, my children.

that the woman we are going to meet today is not just an acquaintance, but a loyal friend who's part of my future plan. It is God's will. I ask you not to tell your mother. This has to stay between you and me, okay? Listen, this is God talking for sure. This is not me. This God, this divine will, but we have to keep it quiet.

We have to keep it quiet. Okay? God's plans not for everybody. What a cool dad. I'm having an affair, but it's God's will. God wants me to go push crazy, okay? And who am I to go against God? I'm but a humble servant of the Lord with a faithful heart.

and hard cock. That's definitely not going to fuck a kid's head up. Clearly Rock's cult ambitions were orchestrated. He's mapping out the future long before he tells any followers. Doesn't share his cult leader aspirations with very many people yet. At this time, he's focusing on becoming a different kind of grifter. The healer. Oh, the faith healer, the classic grifter.

His first step towards prophet. Having turned away from Catholicism years earlier, he has recently turned towards a new take on Christianity, the Seventh-day Adventist Church. And I think this specific denomination definitely helped us to launch into being a cult leader. To a degree unseen

in many other Christian denominations, the Adventists, they recognized the possibility of modern prophetic gifts. Ellen White, their co-founder, who lived between 1827 and 1515, was and still is recognized

as a modern prophet. She wrote more than 5,000 periodical articles, over 40 books in her lifetime. Supposedly had about 2,000 visions. seems like a lot. Also interestingly, became interested in religion

and God in heaven at the age of nine directly after taking a large rock to the face that knocked her unconscious and almost killed her. Not kidding. It's almost like she experienced a brain injury and that injury was responsible for her visions. Anyway, Seventh-day Adventists, due to the founding of their religion,

are going to be more open to the possibility of some new Ellen White being spoken to by God similar to Mormons. makes it a little easier to recruit cult members. They also historically have had a far greater apocalyptic focus than many other Christian denominations. They've tended to be very into preaching and, you know, talking about an imminent second coming.

The Adventists also emphasized clean living, absence from alcohol and tobacco, and a strong focus on health and bodily purity. Ellen White was a huge proponent of vegetarianism. A lot of Seventh-day Adventists are vegetarian, or at least, you know, try to go light on the meat. maybe Rock was drawn to this health-focused group due to the mysterious stomach pain he was still dealing with

he does get very into their clean living and it'll help him stop drinking for a while also stop smoking he'll even be vegan for a time also tries to reconcile with his wife Francine a few months after getting into the Seventh-day Adventist probably just ended a place to stay the reconciliation does not go well at all

both Rock and Francine continually fight frequently accuse one another of cheating Francine decidedly not a fan of Rock being a born again Christian. He frequently lectures her about this or that, quoting scripture. She can't fucking stand it. Basically tells him he's a hypocrite, phony, a fake Christian, he's full of shit. You know, she's right. It tells him to stop trying to brainwash their kids with all the silly bullshit. And one night in 1977, Francine throws Rock out of the apartment and they will never reconcile again. Per Rock Jr., it was on a freezing winter evening in 1977 that the final

confrontation took place. It was around midnight with my father, who had been away for a few days, returned to the apartment. Strong winds rattled the windows of our bedroom. Despite this, I could hear my parents raise voices which seemed to be coming from the living room. My brother, Francois, luckily for him, was sleeping like a log. I climbed down from the bunk bed and cautiously

opened the bedroom door a crack. To my utter astonishment, I saw my father through the living room window, standing outside on the porch half naked. My mother had locked him out in the middle of the winter. Shivering with cold, he threatened her, warning her that he would break down the door if she didn't open it.

my mother visibly agitated but determined and still in control of herself quickly gathered all of my father's clothes and belongings then swiftly with a deliberate gesture she opens the door and throws everything over the balcony railing i'm stunned while my father gathers his things i try to understand why my mother would do that well because your dad's a piece of shit uh the love and admiration i have for my father are so strong i can't understand why my mother hates him so much that she throws him out in the middle of the night i'm pulled for my thoughts when i hear dad's a piece of my car roaring off. Will I ever see my father again? Heartbroken. I go back to bed. Following this, no one knows exactly why Francine threw him out, but I'm going to assume it was probably mostly based in infidelity. She forbids her boys from Seenrock. But he'll sneak in visits, lots of visits with Junior catching him on his walk home from school. He is living nearby at this point, literally in someone's shed. According to his son, trials and tribulations. God's put him through little shed life era. Francine also starts to worry about her oldest boy around this time.

Thanks to his dad's influence, he starts to warn other kids at school at the end of the world is near. And they need to get right with God quick before that happens, or their souls will be punished in hell forever. Rock Jr. also starts refusing to eat pork, which annoys his mom. His dad has told him that pork comes from an unclean, filthy animal. God does not want him to eat it. Rock Sr.

He's really gotten into religion again. and he, of course, is a big player in God's plans, right? As junior related, recall from this period of time, he explained to me that he is God's representative on earth. Well, I like this. Not like one of them, the one. When he talks to me about his mission and the dreams in which God speaks to him, I hang on his every word.

And again, he's living in the fucking shed when he's talking about this shit. I could spend hours and hours listening to him recount passages from the Old Testament or describe his plans. I feel privileged to be the son of one of God's chosen ones. I also take my own role very seriously. Even so, it's not always easy being the son of such a great man. At primary school, I often struggle to reconcile the formal education I receive with the new spiritual values. I've inherited from my father.

For example, a teacher, a woman who has worked at this school for over 30 years, asks us, it's a Catholic school, by the way, asks us every morning to recite the Hail Mary and make the sign of the cross. Previously, I saw no problem with this. But now, I'm much more reluctant to perform these rituals, because my father explained that making it. the sign of the cross is invoking evil forces. So I've started making the sign of the cross backwards to respect my father's wishes, making sure, of course, not to attract my teacher's

attention. However, reciting the Hail Mary is a bit more of a problem for me, because my father explained that the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary is just a hoax. In reality, Jesus is more likely the product of fornication between Mary and King Herod, who then allegedly had his own son crucified. In my father's eyes, Mary was therefore nothing more than a worthless woman, a despicable prostitute. Wow, dad, dad really mind fucking his little boys with these twists it takes.

When Francois also starts attending the same school as a kindergartner, he'll remember how into Rock's teachings his brother had gotten and how that would cause some problems for them at school. He said, quote, I don't quite understand

what's going on with my brother, my father, or more. Fair. But I have a feeling that's going to cause us more problems than anything else. Ever since Rock Silvan ended up in the principal's office

for handing out Bibles on the playground, I've noticed that some students are given a strange looks. Seems like suddenly people are suspicious of us. Hell yeah, they were giving you little weirdo strange looks. You were fucking strange. I told my kids to stay the hell away from you two

apocalyptic lunatics. When juniors in third grade and Francois is a first grader, Rock is able to persuade one of their teachers to join his version of Christianity, which is a good example of how charismatic this dude was. This is insane. This shows how powerfully he could influence people's minds. Here's what Francois recalled about this.

I remember an event that taught me my father did not give up so easily. That day, as usual, at the end of the classes. I was supposed to meet Roxelan in the schoolyard before going home. We hadn't even started walking back when Chantal, excuse me, my first grade teacher caught up with us. She asked it to come inside the school because she had something important to tell us. Surprised I wondered what Roxelan had been up to this time and why I had to be reprimanded along with him.

To my great surprise, Chantal did not seem to want to punish us at all. On the contrary, she treated us very kindly, inviting us into her classroom. With a big smile, she explained that our father had come to see her and had asked her to share some biblical names with us, specially chosen for us. From now on, Roxelvan will be called Erin, which in Hebrew means, oh, enlightened student, and I will be Malachi, the messenger of love. These are the names we will use during the new rites that Dad has prepared for us. Once this somewhat basic baptism ceremony is over,

Chantal explains that we will now have to take the time each day to perform the small purification ritual before going home. While preparing tubs of water, she asked us to take our shoes and socks off to soak our feet. She then distributes some pieces of bread and serves as each a glass of white grape juice for the purification session. Obediently we follow her instructions without a murmur,

feet in the water and glass of juice in hand. We participate in this small communion by reciting the series of prayers and hymns, just as our father dictated them to Chantal. deep down, I wondered how he had managed to convince my teacher to participate in this ritual. And above all, what would mom think of all this? But I quickly changed my mind, it is best never to mention it to mom to avoid stirring up more trouble. Man, that's fucking wild.

Was that fucking their first grade teacher? Maybe. Also around this time, Rock moves out of the shed. He's living in. He upgrades to an apartment because somebody else is paying for it. He's now living with Giselle, aka Louiselle, the woman he had started to have. an affair with, per God's plan in Quebec City. He's talked her into moving down to Thetford Mines, and the beginnings of the Ant Hill kids' cult are starting to form. They have a base of operations.

As Junior will recall, at Dad and Louiselle's place, the atmosphere is completely different from home because it's always full of people, especially women Dad meet at the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Young and pretty, they all seem to admire him endlessly. Uh-huh. Often they camp out, the apartment right out on the floor. While dad sleeps with Louiselle, the conversations are lively and cheerful and religion, of course, is at the heart of most of their activities.

Cult, cult, cult. These early members were 21-year-old, Solange, Bollard, 19-year-old Chantal Lebris, 18-year-old Francine Leflam, 20-year-old Nicole Ruel, 18-year-old Marie's, last name unknown,

20-year-old, Zoseé, Peltier, Jacques Fizé, a guy in his mid-20s, 24-year-old Claude Ulet, 24-year-old Jacques Jigir, his 23-year-old wife, Mariz, and their six-month-old daughter. I don't think Chantal Lebris was the same Chantal

that was the boy's teacher, by the way. Might have been, but I feel like sources would have made some effort to point that out, and they didn't. Apparently from these first recruits, many of whom will sadly be along for the whole ride, Maris will hate living out in the woods on the compound and hate Rock as well She got roped into all this because of her husband

Some sources say she'll also be the only female member Who will never sleep with Rock The boys still seeing their dad in secret at this point And one night at his apartment Rock announces to his boys That he and his little crew are going to be moving soon He says they're going to organize Seventh-day Adventist seminars

To help people quit smoking And adopt healthier lifestyles Very soon the entire group We'll move to Saint-Marie where they will establish their headquarters. He announces that he will have his divorce with Francine finalized, get a custody agreement so that he can have them with him every other weekend. Rock really got into these church detoxification programs.

It's where he recruited most of his followers. Most sources say he began to go to them in early 1977 to quit smoking himself and just kind of learned to be healthier. And that by May of that year, he was selling literature for the Seventh-day Adventist Church, teaching a well-attended and successful course on detoxification, a.k.a. how to quit smoking and theft for mines in the surrounding towns. He would later claim that he felt called to help people become free from addiction, not long after he had come across some Seventh-day Avenue-sponsored free health seminars for smokers in Quebec.

He later described his services as follows, saying, I organized detoxification sessions in several cities across Quebec, a five-day program based on healthy eating, psychology, and group therapy achieved excellent results. I wonder if the psychology he was learning was just a way to manipulate people. while Therio claimed he did not set out to start a group or a commune. Five people who began to regularly attend these sessions quickly became very friendly with him and more would follow. Some of the people I've already mentioned, pretty soon his students technically will move in and live with him and his new girlfriend, help him with his new healing mission. According to Terrio, the idea of creating a commune was fortuitous rather than part of a plan.

He will later say, the fact that colleagues came to live and work with me led to some serious organizational problems. They had all left paid jobs to devote their time to this new work. Since my courses had not, excuse me, since my courses had no set fee and participants paid what they could at the end of each session, it was impossible for me to pay my helpers. This is what prompted us to create a commune. I think your ego is mostly what prompted it, but okay. In the summer of 1977, Rock and his followers attended an Adventist retreat on Lake Rousseau

in the woods of Ontario. Here he will meet two more future cult members, Gabriel La Valet from Quebec This poor woman It's going to get fucking rough for her Before this is over And Yolande Guinebert from France

Also the natural scenery of Lake Rousseau Apparently made a big impression on rock In fact at one point during the retreat Terrio went hiking by himself Climbed up on this rocky outcropping Said he had a vision there Which the sky was lit up with a white radiance And the voice of God spoke to him

That the outcroping on which he was about to kneel Was a holy place So that's cool. you know, God is just, you know, talking to him quite a bit now. Rock and Francine get officially divorced in the fall of 1977. Rock is now granted partial custody of the boys, seeing them every other weekend initially, if I didn't already say that. Sorry, sometimes compiling this through a multitude of sources.

I'm like, did I mention that? Want to make sure I got it out there? Wonder if God told him he was getting that custody arrangement as well. Hark, my child, I have blessed news. You will see your progeny two weekends a month, blessed tidings. God has helped you with your custody arrangement. shortly after this. Rock in the group

moving to a cottage in Saint-Marie on the banks of the Shodier River. This is the place they chose to carry out the designs of Almighty God in order to convince people

to adopt healthy lifestyles. Or rather, this is where God told him to you know fucking start their coat. They set up a storefront called the Healthy Living Clinic and continue to offer

detoxification courses in several cities across the province of Quebec, not just there. This place is a 45-minute drive northeast of Thetford Mines smaller. About 13,000 people lived there now. Back then, about 5,000.

Soon here, Rockets more recruits, a man named, or at least one more. Leo Mark Fulchet, age unknown, sold all his worldly possessions to help fund the clinic and move in with his wife and shot. So I guess you got three. That's fucking crazy. All the members of the group are continuing to participate in

initially in organizing the 7th-day anti-smoking conferences led by Rock during the conferences. he presents his audience, you know, like that five-day plan he talked about. He's very good at it. He does help people quit smoking. He's particularly convincing his audiences hang on his every word, I guess, as part of his treatment plan. He offers natural organic products that supposedly help purify the body. Many of the products made by the group themselves, rest come from the seventh-day Adventist Church,

which additionally supply the group with books. And the profits from these sales, along with spontaneous donations from the public, allow Rock and his crew to, you know, be their little cult members or cult selves. Rock Jr. remembers everything revolving around his father in this group and how at this point they're all calling him Papa. A papy or Papa. Not creepy at all. When you think about, you know, Papa, fucking these teens,

which if he wasn't doing already, he would do very soon. Working closely with, you know, he's working closely with Giselle, a.k.a. Luizel, who's become Mama, mother. Mother why? Mother why do you rile gods apples? And she plans the group's activities and the distribution of daily tasks for these good people. Junior remembers Mama, mother being wonderful,

how she was very sweet and maternal. While the group lives in Saint-Marie, Rock composes a new method of observing the Sabbath. The day is devoted to prayer, meditation, rest, and fasting for the adults. Also, the dress code has changed. They start wearing handmade tunics. Hell yeah. Colt, cult, cult.

Gotta love it when they get a dress coat. Everyone in the group wears a green tunic except for Dad, Francois, and Rock Jr. They get to wear extra clothes. cool brown tunics bedazzled with some kind of shiny gold sequence to note their special basically royal status. Gotta have a hierarchy. Also, the dress code was to wear these tunics with no undergarments.

Everyone's freeballing or free pussy. Can we add that term to the lexicon, by the way, free pussy? It doesn't seem fair that there's not a fun equivalent to free balling. I like free pussy. The group also starts to grow a little, thanks to some community outreach they're doing. They provide care and meals to sick and disabled people. people who come seek and support her comfort, and now Rock really starts to get a reputation for being some kind of healer. Gabrielle Nadu is a young 20-year-old woman with multiple sclerosis, who is brought to their

cabin in Saint-Marie by her parents. They were at a loss for how to help their daughter, and apparently thanks to the excellent care of Rock and a follower named Judith, who is a trained nurse. Nadu or Nadu gradually regains her strength and muscle tone. Rock made her some sort of harness that allowed her to remain upright, suspended by ropes attached to the ceiling, the sort of swing allowed her to get out of her wheelchair because her feet could touch the ground. Nadu managed to loosen and strengthen her atrophied limbs a little more each day. This actually is cool. One of the only cool things this group ever did.

But Rock won't always be good to Nadu. Her life in the group will eventually deteriorate. For now, everybody loves her. Treat her like a full-fledged member of the family. And yes, they do see themselves as a family now. And before we head out into the woods, out into the wilderness, where so much debauched, is going to await us. Time for today's second and two

mid-show sponsor breaks. Thanks for listen to those sponsors. Hope you heard some deals. Hope you like deals. I hope you enjoyed deals in general. And you heard something you liked. And now let's return to late 1977. In late 1977, Rock claims

he has been receiving new visions and dreams about an imminent apocalypse. Nothing like some doomsday warnings to kind of tighten up control of your group. In November, he announced a revelation about moving into the wilderness of the remote Gaspé, Peninsengens. to await the second coming.

By the end of the year, he has instructed his followers to contact their families and threaten to formally sever all ties if they will not accept his prediction of the impending apocalypse and please also give us some money. In January of 1978, he marries Giselle de France in the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Montreal. In one of them, I imagine they have several. According to multiple accounts, a man connected to Iraq, perhaps impressed by the success the group seems to have had with Nadu, brings his 38-year-year-old. old wife, Geraldine O'Clair, into his orbit, a woman suffering from leukemia in March of 78.

Ooh, boy. Rock convinced her husband to get her to check herself out of hospital care. Get away from that nasty hospital. Leave her treatment up to him and his team. Local Seventh-day Avenue's clergy tried to convince Eau Claire and her husband to not fucking do that, but they wouldn't be convinced otherwise. For the record, local clergy did try to convince Rock's followers eventually to leave him as well, but that won't happen.

Now, instead of chemotherapy or radiation, Rock puts Geraldine on a grape juice and organic food regiment, which makes sense. You know, she was dying of cancer, and he convinced this young woman, desperate to stay alive, that grape juice and organic food is going to put her back in tip-top shape.

Can you guess what happened a few months later? Bingo. She was not only cured and cancer-free, but now she could teleport, travel into parallel dimensions, via the astral plane, and speak directly with Limerians. Fuck yeah, bro.

No, no, she died. Now, the cancer killed her. The grape juice and free organic huckleberries and fucking pine nuts and, I don't know, whatever the fucking shit he was feeding her, didn't do anything. Terrio told his followers, I mean, it didn't hurt, you know? I think that stuff, I feel like that kind of stuff, like all the organic stuff, it is good. I feel like it's better for, like, preventative reasons. Like maybe if you're eating cleaner your whole life, or at least for a good portion in your life, you know, lower your odds. I don't know that that stuff can just beat the cancer once.

it's in its late days. Terrio told his followers, after she died, that he went into a room when no one's watching, of course, and he kissed her, and she awakened from death. But that in the end, he said,

quote, you know, when God wants people, he takes them. It was Geraldine's time. Guys, guys, guys, she died. She died. But I was able to resurrect her with a little make-out sish. But then,

she said she wanted to be, you know, heading off to heaven. She wanted this to be her last perfect moment on Earth. and she died again. So kind of sad, but kind of fucking cool, right? The exact details of this case

do vary a bit, depending on the source, but no criminal charges were ultimately brought in relation to her death. Sounds like they were considered, though. So now Rock has begun to act with dangerous confidence

and matters involving health, medicine, and life or death decisions. Cool, cool, cool. People are trusting him enough to follow that guidance. They're accepting crazier and crazier stories from him like he could bring back a woman

from the dead with a little makeout session. So by this point, his followers are no longer just listening to him. They have surrendered their judgment to him even in matters of life and death. And more importantly, when she fucking died, they do not abandon him. They don't think, wait a minute,

maybe he's not such a good healer, which tells us he had, you know, skills. So important to a cult leader of being able to shift the narrative to rewrite history in real time and not have his followers flinch. Also around the same time, Rock's relationship with the Seventh-A Adventist church

begins to break down even further. Most churches, for whatever reason, they just don't seem to like it. when one of their congregants, in addition to stealing their health clinic ideas, suddenly starts to act like the rest of the congregation should listen to them, not the pastor because God is speaking to them directly. And he is starting to kind of steal their ideas. And he is speaking more and more often about visions and dreams.

I just picture him in his final days with the Seventh-day Adventist, you know, sitting in a pew in the very back, you know, furthers from the pulpit, lean back with his arms folded across his chest, you know, feet up on the pulpit in front of him, just smug expression, just real cocky, rolling his eyes, doing, big dramatic exhales during the sermon. A lot of loud mumbling. Just pf.

No. That's not what God meant. Uh-uh. Ah, come on. Wrong. What was that, Rock? You say something? Yeah.

Yeah, God changed his mind. About that last thing you just said. We just spoke this morning, dude. Happy to share my notes. Maybe I should handle the sermons from now on since I am God's emissary. By April of 1978, Rock is expelled for being a piece of shit, for being a delusional, arrogant, fake prophet asshole. And his followers also expelled for not rejecting his teachings. Rock, of course, will frame this expulsion as proof of his holiness.

Proof that the institution of the existing church is corrupt, morally bankrupt, satanic. As they were God's true church, they would obviously recognize that he is God's chosen dude. Since they don't, well, I guess there's no church at all. and now however many of his followers remain and stand by him, about two dozen of them, these followers, they are real in. They keep up with their health clinic, but now they're not selling any Seventh-day Avenue shit anymore. Uh-uh, we don't need that satanic garbage.

We got our own thing. We're making this shit up as we go along. Also around this time, Rock's new wife, Zelle, gets pregnant, and also angry. Then Rock has started to, you know, kind of fuck other members. She threatens to leave the group. So what does Rock do to calm her down? Well, he punches her in the mouth,

and he locks her in a room for two-fold. days, won't let her out. Finally lets her out once she has recommitted to sticking around. This flash of domestic violence does not seem to scare anyone else off. All God's plan. July of 1978, Rock shares another vision, big one, one that he says God gave him when he was out alone in the woods. That's where he gets most of his visions, you know, when no one else can see anything. Excuse me, he declares that the world will end on a specific date, and it's coming up quick. February 19th, 1979. Some sources say that the 17th, most of the

19th. I'm surprised this didn't end his cult. He took a big swing here. If the world doesn't end, will everybody go home? Also, though, big advantage to this specific impending date. Specific prophecy in the not so distant future raises stakes, forces belief into action, right? Rock didn't just predict the end, told his followers they needed to prepare for it and fast. They needed to stay in his good favor, because

only those who remain in his orbit. Of course, you know, people who do not stray from his teachings will be the ones to survive. And most importantly, they needed to go isolate themselves out in the woods where he can control them in crazier ways. Also in the summer of 78, when Rock is 30 years old, his sons, Rock Jr. and Francois, I mean Aaron and Malachi, are allowed by their mom to spend two weeks with her dad. And she will regret this. They see that his group has amassed an impressive amount of luggage and supplies when they show up, as if they're preparing for a long trip. They noticed dozens of crates a canned food, entire boxes of wheat

germ and cereal jars, dozens of containers of chicory coffee. Then one morning, Rock announces that everybody is leaving for the day to head to some place called Green Island to fish and stock up on pickled fish. A few nights later, after they get done pickling all this fish, Rock makes his boys watch the

Ten Commandments movie, which tells the story of Moses and his followers. Rock tells Jr., who he calls only Aaron now, listen to me carefully, Aaron. In another one of my dreams, the Lord God, showed me a new path to follow, a path that is still part of the original mission. We must leave everything behind, leave our past behind, and head for the Gaspe Bay Peninsula. Gas Bay Peninsula is a stunning, rugged region in eastern Quebec, projecting into the Gulf of St. Lawrence,

known as Land's End, to many. It's very isolated, very beautiful. Rock tells his sons that they will not be heading back to stay with their mom like they were supposed to. He says something to the effect of, I also had a vision that you and your brother must stay with me so that we can all get away from the society that is only poisoning us. Furthermore, remember that the end is near. We must purify ourselves of all our worldly habits in order to be ready for the second life for the last judgment at the coming of the Almighty Master.

Not alarming at all. To prepare for the big trip, it seems, that all of Rock's followers have now renounced all of their personal possessions to the group. They have given their shit to Moses to help raise money for the big move. Or at least, that's what they've told him. I think a few of them stash some shit aside.

This is one of the biggest Colt red flags there is. Give all your stuff to me for the end is near. Since the boys had last seen their dad, Rock is now fully transformed into Moses. His followers are openly referring to him as Moses now.

He is no longer a man searching for the truth. He is a man who has already received the truth with the capital T. That's a dangerous shift. He now begins to present himself, not as someone with some good ideas as one of God's emissaries, but as someone with only the best ideas,

God's sole divine authority. Moses is father. fucking back, baby, in his body. About time, God's prophet of old has returned. Let's get some new commandments. From here on out, Rock will lean further and further into his new identity. He is convinced his followers that any opposition to his authority is actually evidence of his righteousness.

There is no longer any external check on his behavior, on their behavior. Any in all criticism can now be framed as persecution, concerns become attacks, reality becomes irrelevant. He assigns exciting, super special, new names to his members as well, biblical names. He has literally pulled out of a hat. Names like Judah, Rachel, Gideon, Salome, and Cain. Oof, whoever drew Kane must have gotten some stink eyes. I'm not sure if Rock was conscious of how powerful this name reassignment really was, right?

He might have just done it to make his followers feel more special, important, chosen. You know, a little ego boost for them, a good way to anchor them into his clubhouse mentality. Their name only has real meaning if they stay with him in the group. But actually, changing somebody's name in this way is, more powerful than that. Changing somebody's name is one of the fastest ways to reshape their identity, to separate them from their past, from their families, from a former sense of self. It says, you are not who you once were. You are who I say you are now. This allows Rock to further mold them into who he wants them to be. In addition to new names, Rock has also

creating new rules. At first, they may have seemed like extensions of what the group was already doing, living simply, eating clean, avoiding sin. But over time, as far as far as far as, Following Rock's rules become more and more normalized as they'd prepared to move out into the woods. His followers did it more and more out of unthinking, unquestioning habit. The rules shifted became more rigid, specific, and invasive. They were expected to live communally, devote literally all their time to the group, limit contact with pesky outsiders like concerned parents, regularly confess their thoughts and actions to Moses.

And most importantly, to obey Moses, always without question. Not just respect him, not just listen to him. Obey, motherfuckers. because they're not just following a man anymore. They're following God through his humble servant, prophet Moses. The group had started planning this first big move in June of 1978. Now Rock had roughly two dozen deeply committed followers in his orbit. After his later imprisonment, Rock will say of this move,

we had all been living together for close to about a year when I decided to move there without entertaining the idea of bringing the rest of the group with me. Yeah, bullshit. I have to admit that my desire to isolate myself, and this magical place was irrational and inexplicable and very, personal, but time had strengthened our bonds, and we were united more than ever in this endeavor. Well, I had been the catalyst of the group. Every major decision concerning the life for the group was always made with the consent of the majority of the members. Thus, I was not surprised that all the

members decided without hesitation to join me in preparing for our departure for the mountain. Uh-huh. Right before Rock Jr. and Francois are supposed to be returning home, everyone gets up early. Francois later recalls. Everyone in the group was up busy packing the life. blast of the luggage into three vehicles planned for this long trip, a camper van, an old Chevrolet station wagon, and a makeshift old school bus, renovated with whatever materials were available. The amount of luggage is so considerable

that there isn't enough room for the 11 women, seven men, and seven children in the community. Dad decided that the part of the group would follow later, or the part of them, would follow later in two additional vehicles. How sad that seven kids are being dragged into this shit. Rock Jr. and Francois, wonder how mad mom is going to be, when she finds out, also if she'll be able to ever find them.

Around noon they approached the Gulf of St. Lawrence. They stopped near Ka O'Ranar, a little village of less than 200 people, where the vegetation was so dense that Route 132 barely visible through the foliage, even though it's actually just about 50 meters from the riverbank. A little further along the bank, a small stream about five meters wide,

flows into the Gulf, full of crystal blue water. They set up camp, pitching about 10 tents, and then they go fishing in some canoes they'd brought, Catching mostly mackerel and cod, they cook up at night. The fish are quickly seasoned with pepper, onion, and parsley, brushed with butter, wrapped in aluminum foil before being thrown onto some hot coals. Sounds delicious.

These are the golden days for this little colt before shit gets dark. The fishheads are used to make soup, the remaining filets, dried in the sun, hung on a spit or spread out on a long wire net supported by a row of small poles, planted in the sand. That night, the whole group gathers around the fire. So people are playing guitars, they're singing hymns. They'll stay there for about 10 days. Just fishing, singing songs about the second coming, having a lot of Bible studies,

probably fucking the woods, having a grand old time. Kids are exploring the woods, playing all kinds of games, hopefully not getting fucked. Then they head towards Bonaventure Island. Rock reminds them that this is the route. God revealed to him in some dreams. In his dreams, he was showing the final destination of mountain. He calls Eternal Mountain Noyce. That's where they're going to await the second coming.

they set up camp next at Shalur Bay, placed by the sea with an expansive view of the ocean in the woods. There one morning a woman from the group tells Rock that she has also had a dream and when she has also had a premonition of the place they were destined to go. She too has seen Eternal Mountain. Delighted, Rock quickly adds that he had the same dream. No way!

So now they decide to set off together to go find a good place to, I don't know, I guess have this vision again and find the famous promise. land. Upon their return, a few hours later, they're both in a state of pure ecstasy. Yeah, I bet. They probably just went out in fucking the woods. Uh, they tell everybody, now they know exactly where to go. Some are thrilled by the news. Others seem worried. Then that night, while the group is gathered around the fire, praising the eternal one for having guided Rock steps on the road to the future, uh, to their supposed final destination. Rock Jr. hears shouts coming from the bus. Sounds like someone's being hurt. Worried here turns to, uh, Louiselle,

right, to Giselle, uh, asked for what is happening. Tell me, Mama, why are Angel and dad shouting so loudly? Oh, it's nothing serious, Aaron, she says. It's because your father must drive out the spirit of evil, which always tries to take hold of Angel. Okay, so he's physically beating some of the followers now outside of his wife, and everyone is, I guess, okay with this. July 9th, 1978 now, Rock gathers everybody around the campfire

for an important message, and in a solemn tone, he announces, my friends remember that we draw closer to the kingdom of heaven I don't be talking like that the kingdom of heaven we must purify ourselves now he says

we must purify ourselves further and rid ourselves of all worldly habits connected to the power of evil that is why I ask you to throw your jewelry and identification documents including your health insurance card

into the fire in nature we will find everything we need to heal ourselves from now on we will no longer have to worry about our physical appearance and that is why I'm asking

the women to also get get rid of their makeup backs. Furthermore, you must burn all momentos connected to your past. Phone numbers, photos, letters, in short, everything that belongs to this corrupt world. Remember that the entrance to the kingdom is as narrow as the eye of a needle. It is by walking the steep path of justice following the almighty master who guides us all. He will grow and that though, and that through the revealing sufferings that will be imposed upon you,

you will be able to secure your salvation since we are the only chosen ones on this earth. Oh shit He's gonna own these motherfuckers now Literally having them burn Some of their most important connections To the outside world This message apparently met with some shock A little hesitation

But in the end no one balked Everyone did as they've been asked They're all in Pot committed sunk cost fallacy Here we come! The next day they're on the road again And soon they make it to the village of Hope About 500 people at that time

Living near the coast on the Gas Bay Peninsula Where they can already make out of a distant summit, they think is Eternal Mountain, towering over the endless expands of a surprisingly dense forest. They find an old bumpy, partially overgrown logging road, heading into the mountains, and they take it. On this road, the station wagon dies, and they're just like, fuck it. They're just pushing into the brush, and they keep on trucking. They're going off grid. They push on like that for approximately two more hours, deeper and deeper into the thick woods, then stop at a fork in the road. They take the road on the left, and soon one of the buses gets stuck. It takes them about three hours

to get it unstuck and then they drive on. They drive on for a few more kilometers, make it to a clearing, start setting up camp. But then a few park rangers find them and basically tell them, hey, weirdos, what are you doing here on private property? You know the right to camp here?

We don't like your fucking tunics. Get out of here. Rock tells them they're looking for a camping site at a nearby mountain. The rangers are actually nicer than that. And they say something like, oh, you mean, Loxic. You could camp there because it's Crownland.

But you're on the wrong path. You should have taken the right fork. You'll have to backtrack. If you like, We'll come back tomorrow. Show you the way because the trail ends right before he reached the lake. Then Rock asked them, is there a mountain? And they're like, yeah, it's Mount Trinity.

And the lake is right at the foot of the mountain. And real quick, let me explain the difference between provincial and crown land that they're talking about here in Canada. Crown land is publicly owned by the federal or provincial government, approximately 89% of all Canada. Provincial land, a subset of Crown land, specifically managed by the provincial government, roughly 48% of the total land. whereas federal crown land

managed by the federal government primarily in territories excuse me Crown land public land generally free to roam also up for industrial use for like you know forestry mining

commercial recreation hellaskeen for example whereas provincial land largely provincial parks that are you know very protected they're free to roam to an extent but no industrial no commercial tenure is allowed

basically the rules of how long you could stay at a place are more relaxed on crown non-provincial land that said there are rules but it doesn't sound like they were as enforced as rigidly back then. Following this encounter, Rock confirmed

that once again, God had come to their aid because without that meeting, they would have gone further into the woods away from their mountain. And the people rejoice. At 6.30 a.m. the following morning, Forest rangers have returned, driving two large farm tractors

to help tow the buses, which are overloaded with luggage to the foot of the mountain. Maybe the most Canadian thing I've ever heard of. That is so weirdly. nice and unnecessary. The La Cic site, actually only a 15-minute walk from where they were parked already. Locke walked over to inspect it. When he came back, he was ecstatic.

He proclaimed it was the place God had shown him in a dream for sure. I don't think he proclaimed that directly in front of the park rangers? Probably not. Now soon the group was setting up their camp at the base of Mount Trinity, aka Mount Eternal, in a thick forest on the shores of La Cic, miles from the nearest village. And Loxec is just, again, that lake, miles from the nearest village. a place where, you know, most remote campers can't even easily access, isolated from the outside world, other than the occasional visit from a park ranger or hiker. And now they get to build in a true

cult compound as they wait for Judgment Day. They are also now referring to themselves as the Holy Moses Mountain family. Not quite the Ant Hill kids yet. Over the following weeks, once the park rangers are out of earshot, I guess, the men fall some big pines with chainsaws they brought. The women and kids trim off the branches and debark them. The men rip stumps out of the ground or the trees they've fallen, cleared a little piece of ground, you know, to have the foundation of the lodge. Junior will remember the work being very hard, getting real hungry, so hungry you felt dizzy. The rations his dad giving him not enough. The rations other members were getting not enough either.

But if they complained, Rock would restrict their food even further, right? Keep them confused, tired, and hungry. Colt 101. For some, this quickly became too much. Yolanda Gunabert, who would join the group with her friend Gabrielle Lavalé at the resort. at Lake Rousseau, she heads back to France, claiming that her passport had expired.

Not sure how that heretic got away with not burning that passport in the flames of devotion before they made it to Eternal Mountain. Good riddance! She was actually so lucky

to get out before the hell that was coming for the rest of them showed up. Leo Mark Foucher, the guy who had joined the healthy living clinic with his wife and kid, dude who had given Tereo

all of their money. He loaded his family into a station wagon, headed back for civilization. Guess he didn't burn all his shit either. Rock did nothing to stop them but made it clear that they were evil in the eyes of God. Mm-hmm. Despite those weak little fucking baby traitors, bailing early on God's chosen emissary. The main log cabin compound was built slowly and surely. When it was all done come September,

the cabin consisted of a single open room with a floor made of pounded wooden rounds and with a well in the center, a ceiling made of mossy, twiggy, bark-covered logs, and rooms consisted. seen a only of meter high partitions and bed sheets hung his curtains. This was to be their home until God began his thousand-year rain on earth. Ho! Also a place of merriment. Where Terry O would organize skits and songs. Yay, for skits and songs! I picture Rock wanting to act out biblical scenes and then every time he doesn't feel like

his scene partners are acting up to his expectations, and the scene ends up with him losing his shit and fucking punching someone. To help pay for the construction of all this and for certain supplies, Rock had all of the group members' welfare check signed over to him, and his wife for a monthly budget of $1,400 Canadian. After being there, maybe four weeks, maybe six, oh, Francine shows up. Moses' ex-wife shows up with a few police officers.

She's tracked down her zealid ex-husband, who was obviously broken, their custody arrangement, and she has found her sons and she takes them home. And they won't return for two full years. Two years during which Rock and his followers will delve into deeper cult shit. While the boys are gone, Rock starts to exert more control over his followers romantic relationships starts arranging pairings

within the group, declaring who should be with whom, who should marry, who should have kids. All previous marriages and romantic bonds, those are null and void now. In some cases, these pairings involve people who had no prior romantic interest with one another whatsoever. But that didn't matter to Moses.

It was God's will. That, two people not even remotely attracted to one another, two people who don't even get along on any level should fuck, marry, and maybe procreate. God's will be done on earth. At the same time, Rock, of course, exempted himself from these rules, or rather God exempted Moses from all these rules. Terrio also soon abandoned his Adventist clean living diet, began eating meat and junk food, but only him, not his followers. And slight escalation here.

He also prostituted Gabrielle Lavalééé, who he had recruited the resort at Lake Rousseau to a local grocery store owner for milk, meat, and cheese. literally rented out her body for milk and cheese. God's will be done. I wonder if God told him to do that in another vision. Moses, this is God. I need you to do something for me. I need you to trade Gabby's pussy for two gallons of milk, whole milk, a block of Swiss cheese down at the country grocery.

Yes, my child. Let the bearded clerk with the tobacco-stained teeth who smells like B.O. and Bologna have a good. go at her. God's will be done. Lord, out. Rock also started drinking again. After being sober for two years, first communion wine, then some beer, then cognac. And he begins to deliver long, rambling, drunken sermons. And if anybody falls asleep during these sermons, he smacks him in the head with a four-inch thick club. Yep, he's getting more violent.

While Maurice Grenier, who is pregnant, once ate two pancakes, two more pancakes, than Terrio had allocated to her, he punches her in the side. He punches her in the side hard enough to break two of her ribs. Her actual husband does nothing to stop this. Is it weird for me to hope that those extra two pancakes were at least so fucking delicious? Right? At least you, I hope she got some good pancakes. So sad that somebody got beat over pancakes. It's supposed to be such a fun, happy food. And remember, this is that lady who only joined because of her husband in the first place.

She already hated Rock. A favorite punishment of his became to force someone to strip naked and stand out in the snow for a few hours. and no one's fighting back It would be like raising a hand Against God himself After Jacques leaves Rock further titans control of his group

If his followers fucked up in his eyes Not only would they be punished They would have to write letters of apology To him that he would then read aloud Before the group Stuff like Hello Papet Hello Papet

I'm writing you What you said I'm writing about what you said On the subject of nutrition It is very true that I nibble A damnable fault Which I will never again repeat The thought of ingesting such a large quantity of food

And so little time discourages me Even if I work outside the entire day without eating I ask you forgive me If it is steely, I did not realize it It is this fault which causes my plumpness I do not want to be fat and plump servant That is too ugly next to the man that you are I do not know what to think about everything

Is the meaning of my actions I only know that I will not repeat them And I do not speak lightly I wish to be a true servant To you, my master Alert, vigorous Which is clear and lively Spirit and well-balanced

To serve you every moment of my life I have such a long way to go Thank you, Papi I love you, Hogla And I won't talk like that all the time Hogla was young Francine Laflam Calling him not just Moses now But Master, that's cool

Maurice Grinier Begane began to talk about Levy next The woman who really did not like Rock If only she would have left In response, Terrio instructs Jacques Gigerre Her husband in the eyes of the law Though not in the eyes of rock anymore

To cut off one of her toes with a fucking axe That's her punishment for wanting to leave When Jiguer boxed at this Terrio begins to taunt him Saying stuff like Oh don't you have any balls If you want to be a man You have to learn how to teach your woman a lesson

God what a godly glorious man What a true prophet When Jigier began to cry Terio grabbed the axe Threatened to cut off all of her fucking toes So now reluctantly, Gigier takes the axe and severs one of Marisa's

small toes off. Dear God. That poor woman. She didn't want to fucking be there. Now she's down to toe and still stuck there. Her marriage, I guess, you know, her previous marriage, a little rockier than ever. I don't think you ever come back from that, right? Cutting off a spouse's toe? I don't know that there's

any amount of marital counting. It'll fix that. Meanwhile, while followers are still expected to adhere strictly to all kinds of crazy rules and moral guidelines, Moses Rock, of course, is fucking everybody, except Maurice. He justifies this by claiming that as God's chosen representative, he has the right to, quote, sow God's seed wherever the soil is fertile. Wherever there is a hole that makes him hard, a hole he can stick is filled a little wean into. As Rock does this, he focuses further on their isolationism.

All outsiders described as impure, corrupt, dangerous. His main message becomes everything you need is here. Everything outside is a threat. Rock has built a world within a world A closed system with its own rules Its own language Its own hierarchy Its own truth

All out in the middle of the fucking woods And at the center of it all Of course is Rock Terrio Moses The prophet Rock preaches more and more About the coming apocalypse Also adds another new rule Once you've been out in the woods for a while

Enough thinking for yourself Seriously members are specifically instructed To not trust their inner voices Because that voice is always the devil your thoughts are not your own, your instincts are not your own, your doubts are evil. Only Moses, sweet,

horny, deadbeat, dad, Pito Moses, speaks the truth. Oh, one more thing. Followers could only eat grains and vegetables. Terrio's diet, of course, includes everything. Yep, he's getting the meat, the junk food, the fruit, as God intended. He actually told his followers that consuming fresh meat and fruit and stuff

is important for his body because of his stomach stuff, problems, you know? And also, but it also hurts him. Or it also hurts him, and it's his way of suffering. You know, he's punishing himself to purify himself in God's eyes. Just a bunch of gibberish. Just before the end of the world for everybody, on January 3rd, 1979, Moses' third child is born within the commune, with Giselle, a.k.a. Louiselle, aka. Mother. Little Joseph. So that's fun.

It is believed that he will father at least 20 kids with over a dozen women before all this shit's over. Speaking of kids, as kids are born into the group, mothers will not be allowed to personally look after them. At least some won't. Child rearing, kids' education for the most part is the exclusive responsibility of one or two women. And some of these rules, though, it's funny, like this cult goes through numerous kind of little eras. So some rules will stay for a few years, then shift wildly. Don't get too hung up on that. Soon the big days at hand. February 19th, 1979. If you recall, the end of the world. Excitements in the air, the cult's abusing, probably singing songs, doing fucking skits and scats and dancing, big stupid smiles on all their faces.

Then after the sun goes down, guessing their smiles have faded a bit, you know, nerves settling in, probably a bit less dancing, less sketches. Then, you know, midnight strikes, nothing's happened still. Everybody, you know, eventually goes to bed, wake up to a world that does not change the next day. You know, maybe some of them talk about checking nearby communities to see if they're on fire, find out that the town's folk have been fucked to death by demons or whatever's supposed to happen. But nope, everything's a statement. Same, same as it ever was, like it always is.

And then they go back to the compound, probably have a meeting, and there's probably some questions. Uh, Moses, what's going on? What happened to the apocalypse, fearless leader? Well, Rock has an explanation, glorious, just beautiful in its stupidity. According to multiple accounts, he explains the failure by saying some version of, you know what, I finally realized that God's time is not the same as human time. His prediction of the apocalypse was not wrong.

It was just misunderstood. Our world and God's part of the universe don't exist in the same time zone, basically. So this is a big case of forgetting to carry the one. And as followers accept this shit. Right? God works in a different time zone. Of course, it makes sense. Behold, we are living in Eastern daylight time,

but God is living in heaven time and the world will end still February 19th, 1979 heaven time, but not on our Gregorian calendar, but on God, his hop and angel calendar. So we're going to need to rethink the math. The parents of one woman, Chantelle LeBrie, has now finally had enough, right? She was like, okay, I guess she was like, I'll wait until fucking February, and then if the world doesn't end, you're coming home. And she sends a police out to find their daughter, right? Okay, okay, Chantel, right?

just like we fucking told you, world did not end. You had your little cult fun. Now come back home, get a fucking job, dummy. You promise you'd come home if the world didn't end February 19th. They're not the only parents worried, right? News of the Mass People's Temple cult suicide in Jonestown. Suicide slash murder. November 18th, 1978 is still fresh in everybody's mind.

The families of Terrio's flock, understandably worried. Right, over 900 people died in Jonestown. One of the fucking craziest things I've ever heard of. A number of the parents of various followers, especially the underage members been contacting the authorities talking about Rock and his cult authorities had started to try and locate them

then following a radio interview with Rock Terrio in March where he discussed his prophecies the police were able to locate the group and eventually enforce an existing court order against Chantal after Rock originally refused to let them speak to her and yes he is sometimes taking trips to nearby towns and get on the radio I guess

they take her to a nearby hospital for a psychiatric evaluation take Terry O as well and three other members takes some of them to a police station for questioning. And after all, their psychiatric tests, they find that Terrio, debris, the other's, perfect mental health. Huh, might need some new test to test people with.

Rock was charged with obstructing justice, though, for initially refusing to cooperate with authorities trying to locate a member. He's brought to trial, he's found guilty, and just given a suspended year-long sentence. And while he is away, he's able to ingrati himself to some psychiatrists and other people,

he claimed that he had saved these kids from the self-destruction of drugs and put him on the right track. Oh, drugs. The director of the hospital at which Terrio was confined actually began referring to his patient as Moses and expressed his scorn for the public

that had reflexively assumed that just because Terrio had a different lifestyle and wore a tunic, that he was crazy. Oh, what a fucking quack this doctor was. He's released from the hospital early, judged fit to stand trial for the obstruction of justice, you know, before he's given that one year to spend a sentence.

Various media outlets portrayed him as a gentle mountain man now who would run a foul of a prejudiced industrial society. Oh, the 70s. In the eyes of his followers, this only proved that he was an emissary of God, just as he said he was. If psychiatric experts couldn't find anything wrong with him from their position of objectivity, how could they? His most intimate family. Clearly those doctors messed up big time.

Quebec City's La Solet newspaper even published a story about the group titled, They Are Happy and Free to Leave If They Wish. and they refer to Tereo as the group's spiritual father. And they include quotes from an interview with fled member Jacques Fizé, in which he stated the group was actually democratically run. Okay. So on April 27, 1979,

Iraq heads back out into the woods where his followers are, of course, waiting for him, right back in Eternal Mountain. And now, thanks to the press, the compound will become a bit of a tourist attraction. That's spring and summer, people hiking up to meet him, get some photos, you know, maybe have a meal with the cult,

and the cult puts on their best faces for all of this. They get more positive press because of it. But behind the scenes, things taking a darker turn. According to multiple sources, including Savage Messiah, when Rock returned, he was more confident, more authoritarian, more willing to push boundaries further. Gabriel Nadeau, the young woman Rock had cured of MS. Well, she slips into a coma and dies.

Shortly after he gets back, autopsy will reveal that the disease killed her. Rock is not held responsible, but wasn't he basically starving her, beating her, working her way too hard, probably. Wasn't he a large part of why she died? Other cult members will later think so. Now let's check back in with his first two sons, Junior and Francois, things have not been going well,

back in debt for minds, for them. For reasons, not explicitly made clear, Francine having trouble raising her two boys on her own. Rock has family in town, but she does not, and she's not exactly getting along great with her in-laws, the parents of a fucking maniac who still adore baby boy. also her boys acting out quite a bit

getting in a lot of trouble at school and at home right they miss their dad they're getting teased about their dad a lot he's become a local celebrity and laughing sock right he's been interviewed by local papers people know he's a fucking bearded tunic wearing coat leader living in the woods calling himself Moses so you know son's getting a lot of shit

Francine meanwhile living on welfare stressed the fuck out eventually in the summer of 1980 she tells her young sons just 10 and 8 at this point she can't take care of them anymore she's either going to have to relinquish them into foster care or they can go live with their dad out in the woods. What a crazy choice. Maybe there's more to it not mentioned in sources.

Maybe she's struggling with addiction or something. They, of course, choose Moses, dear God. Now, Mom, who just rescued them from a cult the year before, delivers them back to that same cult. They're put on a train to ride out into the Gas Bay Peninsula where dad will pick them up. He will then drive them in a car way out into the woods until the car can't drive any further up the road,

where they're not there, then again, horses, they got horses waiting for them at that point, and they travel the last several kilometers by horseback. That's how remote they were. When they return to the compound, the whole tunic-wearing gang is waiting for them. There's a big celebration. There's 12 women, three men now, just three dudes. A few kids, some newborns.

They said that their dad is particularly proud to introduce them to their new half-brough, baby Joseph. The boys are impressed with the big compound rock is built. They've kept working hard on it and improving it. It's divided into numerous rooms to house the entire community, more proper rooms now. A bunch of bedrooms, kitchen, a sauna, large common room. Even have an indoor well for drinking water, right? I guess they've had that, you know, but it's a little more refined. The log walls insulated with fabric scraps.

Excuse me, a mixture of earth and moss. In the large room that the hearth of the Lord's fire burns, a fire rock is made clear, must never be extinguished. That's fun. Every day, everybody works really hard to provide for the cult. that's constant supervision. The group members are assigned specific tasks to meet all their daily needs. The more important tasks seem to be gathering wood for the hearth and kitchen stove from preparing meals. Everything is meticulously planned.

Both male and female followers, but mostly female, because that's who's there. Spent a lot of time working in the woods, cutting, lemon, sawn trees into logs about 10 feet long, which the Colt's main horse Torbillon then halls to the vicinity of the dwelling. Once there, the wood is sawn into logs, which are then split and stacked inside. Another big daily task is tending the vegetable garden and the chicken coop. They also pick seasonal berries and they have goats and they use the goats milk to make cheese and yogurt. Preparing the three daily meals, a big task entrusted to three of the women mainly. Regularly food is canned and stored in a large underground cellar they've now dug out beneath the compound

where substantial reserves of marinated fish and game are kept. The boys and most of the group don't get that too often though. To help them be purified of their sins and to rid themselves of their conscience. Arnold desires, Moses Rock enforces an extremely strict diet consisting mainly of barley. He could seed everything still, though. Junior and Francois both notice how much extra control Rock now exerts over the group. Everybody obeys him without question. He dictates everyone's actions.

Absolutely everything goes through him. His followers have not just renamed him Moses, right, which they did a while back, but they are unanimous, definitely now in recognizing his absolute power as God's representative on Earth. Junior will also notice that they seemed afraid of him. And then one night early into the return to Eternal Mountain, Junior's woken up in the middle of the night by some strange sounds. Muffled voices have pulled him from his slumber. When he peeks his head out from under the covers,

he literally sees his dad, who is sharing the same room as Francois and him at this point, fucking a young cult member named Madeline. And when they catch him looking, they don't stop. They just keep right on fucking. Jeez. Junior wonders what Louiselle. dad's official wife, Mama, the queen of the little group, must think of this.

He worries, will she divorce his dad like his mom did? And eventually he falls back asleep. A few nights later, he remembers waking up again by more muffled voices. This time, he hears a woman named Miriam crying in the kitchen. He hears her quietly beg, forgive me, Moses, forgive me, Moses, I won't do it again, I swear. Then he hears his dad start to hit her. Sounds like he's spanking her. What an insane world these kids have been dumped into.

After several minutes, she stops crying, and he hears everyone go. back to bed. He later wrote, Despite these disturbing nighttime awakenings, during the day, life goes on as if nothing has happened. We continue to work like slaves while practicing how to free ourselves from the grips of hunger and fatigue. Rock's

sons will also write about their education at Mount Eternal. Women named A Mausel is in charge of teaching them French, math, English, history, other academic subjects. Dad, of course, teaches them religion. And sex education, not long after Rock Jr.,

watched his dad having sex with Madeline. Rock decides to teach his boys a bit about how sex works by having all of the adult female members of the compound undress, stand near his young sons, and he lets his sons gawk away and ask questions. As Rock Jr. wrote,

he was determined that my brother and I should be well informed about female biology. Incredibly, he asked the women to undress and stand over us, leg spread to reveal every detail of their anatomy. Because that's normal. That's totally normal. That's not embarrassing for them.

Oh, Moses Rock's still drinking. God's prophet. Got to hit the sauce. Take the edge off. And when he drinks, you know, he often gets violent. Here's another memory of Rock Juniors from around this time. What a treat tonight. We're having a special meal, a beef stew with potatoes, carrots, and onions, all swimming in a rich brown sauce.

When Dad decides to treat us to give us a break from the usual barley, it's always a real feast that everyone in the group enjoys. Especially when he also brings out a few bottles of homemade beer. excited by this delicacy and slightly tipsy from a few sips of beer, I eat with gusto, and even ask for seconds. Sitting next to Dad on the bench that runs along the huge dining table, I savour every bite. What I love most of all is greedily suckling on the beef bones I dip into the cauldron to get more sauce and suck on them a second time. I'm in such a state of ecstasy that without really realizing it, I get up to go over to the cauldron and dip the bone in the sauce again. Suddenly I hear Dad call out to me. Aaron, that's enough.

How many times have I told you not to commit the sin of gluttony? I don't want to see you dipping your bone in the cauldron again. Come back and sit down right now. Struck by such a change in tone, I returned to my place next to my father and finish my plate in silence. Out of the corner of my eye, I spy on Dad, who visibly tipsy from the alcohol, doesn't seem to be regaining his good humor.

Suddenly he turns towards me and starts hitting me violently with his elbow on the nose. Stunned, I don't know how to defend myself against this sudden surge of violence. quickly my nose starts to bleed but dad keeps hitting me with his elbow until I collapse on the bench completely dazed so that's fun when Rock is not beaten Jr., he's often spoiling him, telling that when he dies he'll be the heir apparent

to what he considers his kingdom now. The Doomsday Talks off the table. Doomsday talk was needed to get them out in the woods, but now that they've been out there and cut off their ties to the outside world, I guess Rock doesn't need to keep preaching about the end of the world to keep controlling them. Rock Jr. still adores his dad

by the way, truly believes his dad is God's prophet on earth, but also doesn't love how his dad treats a lot of his followers, especially the women. He said that one day he was angry with some female follower and, quote, grabbed one of her breasts with his hand and squeezed so hard that her breast milk gushed out. Jesus. He also sometimes, when he's drunk, throws little knives at his kids and followers for funsies. From Junior and Francois's book, he practices his favorite sport, knife throwing.

He often plays this little game in the evening when we're in bed. and I hear the knives being stabbed on the other side of our bedroom wall. One after another, our father designates a new victim to be his target. Jesus! When he's in the mood, if Francois and I have the misfortune of still being awake, he sometimes targets us too. Because they've all been completely cut off from the outside world for a while. No TV, no radio, no electricity, you know, nothing.

No batteries. They don't even have calendars. Former members talk about how they had lost all perspective on how long they've been out there. after a while they no longer knew what day or even month it was. Rock added to the confusion by making up his own calendar. Per Rock Jr., here there are no Mondays, Tuesdays, November's, or December's, all the names of the days of the week and the months of the year have been replaced by religious or symbolic names.

During the week, the days have names like Earth and Light, men and animals, fruits and vegetables, this is so ridiculous. While the months of the year have names like, Kislev, Tevet, or Alul. And since the days are all quite similar with the many tasks and chores we do together, I don't always know exactly what date is or what month is. It's got to be hard to plan stuff. Okay, guys, just remember, you know, next Kislev on the second fruits and vegetables.

We're going to be meeting at YAM o'clock. They might as well just be living in like a parallel universe at this point. This is the most isolation and reality shift. I think I've come across with an occult, which is saying a lot. Normal sexual boundaries have, of course, been completely destroyed. Check out this passage written by Junior. Mother is still the maternal figure, the head of all my father's women.

And she treats Francois and me affectionately, like a real mother. All my father's other women are also very kind to me, like Angelle, who teaches us every day or Anne, who's in charge of kitchens. But I must admit to a special bond with Marie, who has taken to calling me her fawn while I have nicknamed her my doe. several times a day we amuse ourselves by calling each other from afar, my fawn, my doe. This complicity and tenderness touch and amuse me,

while also making me forget the burden of daily work. Lately, this complicity has taken a new turn. On Sabbath days, I go to Marie's bed, where we exchange caresses that awaken sensations in me that were previously unknown. By inviting me to touch her breasts, or when she caresses my genitals, Marie opens the door to a whole new world.

I savour these tender moments all the way. the while praying that dad doesn't catch us. He certainly wouldn't be happy to learn that one of his wives is taking so much pleasure with his 11-year-old son. Oh, so he's just, oh, he's just casually being molested now. They've all gone insane. Got it. Rock's second oldest son will recall violence beginning to escalate around this time as well.

Check out this memory from Francois. My father's a real shark. He needs blood to feel good. When he's drunk, as they say, he can't rest into the blood is flowing freely. At least once a week in the dead of night, he rings a bell to where, wake up the whole village. We then gather in the dining room and stand in a semicircle around Dad who gives us a sermon inspired by his biblical readings. Each time a new theme is addressed, which inevitably leads to the severe punishment of one of the members found guilty of deviant

behavior. Sometimes the whole village gets it. It all depends on Dad's mood or how drunk he is. One thing is certain these meetings always end badly and most often with terrible outbursts of violence. Tonight the theme is purification to bloodshed. Gathered again in the middle of the night we listen to that explain that we had to atone for our sins by purifying ourselves with blood. To achieve this liberation, the method was extremely draconian. We had to form small groups of two, then hit each other until everyone bled without exception. I was with Madeline, and Roxalvan was Simone. For my brother, it was easy because his nose blood of the slightest touch.

But for me, it was very difficult to make myself bleed. Madeline tried to hit me, but without success, I didn't bleed. She tries several times before Dad comes to see what's going on with us. I can't do it, Moses, she admits. Malachi, get on the ground, my father orders me. Then without warning, he gives me a brutal kick to the face. It's with immense relief that I finally feel the blood flowing from my nose. At last, it's over.

Everyone is bleeding, the shark is satiated. The carnage will stop at least for now. Holy fuck. Rock Jr., Aaron, the heir apparent, also, of course, has memories from this time of so much violence. He wrote, as Moses' eldest son, I'm entitled to special treatment, but I'm not exempt from the brutal beatings. he regularly inflicts on all of us. One day my father's violence

exceeded my physical limits. I don't remember the reason for this punishment, but I had to undress and kneel before the immense fire of the Lord that constantly warmed the house in order to receive my chastisement. Armed with a sturdy stick, the kind usually used to stir food in the large pot,

my father struck me a first blow so painful my first instinct was to throw myself into the flames. Blinded by a great white flash I tried to regain my balance, only to receive a second blow just as powerful. But this time it made me bounce to my feet. Without thinking, I ran for the door and rushed outside completely naked into the icy cold of the Gaspe winter.

I was terrified. I ran to the snow with only one thought of my mind to flee. Anywhere, but flee far from the violence and suffering I could endure no longer. After only a few minutes I froze, overcome by the cold. I don't know where to go anymore. I'm distraught when suddenly from inside the house I hear my father shout. Oh, yes! You want to play hunting?

Angelo, go get the 303. A few minutes later, after being terrified that his dad was going to kill him with his hunting rifle, Francois, kill his brother. Francois watched Junior be marched naked by his father back into the compound at gunpoint. As bad as junior, and Francois had it as the first two-born sons of the prophets, they had it better than the other kids. There was a hierarchy, and the kids that were treated the worst off by far were the kids on the compound that had not been fathered by rock.

Junior wrote of them. Three children belong to this group of outcasts. Abraham and Aline's two children, Dorothy and Matthew, age four and two respectively, and Paul and Ansel's son Ishmael, two years old. These three little ones lived together in the workshop, a room set back from the house. They don't get to live in the fucking house. Randomly one day during this period of the Colts' existence, Rock had a meeting where he declared that junior would henceforth be in charge of Ishmael, for Ishmael was destined,

prophetically speaking to be his slave. No one pushes back. Junior now has to dress and care for this young servant. Make sure he eats enough, puts him to bed, helps him go to the bathroom. They have an 11-year-old in charge of a 2-year-old now. Following his dad's method of discipline, one day when Ishmael is throwing a tantrum,

I don't know, maybe he has a fucking bad stomachache from all the mushrooms. Junior says he kept catching him picking out of literal shit piles in Eden. When he won't stop crying, Junior literally grabs a stick and just beats the shit out of him. That's the example his father has set. Fortunately, he doesn't kill him. His brother Francois will say that he couldn't believe his dad hadn't already killed the kid by this point.

He apparently hated Ishmael and would sometimes just pick him up and fucking throw him across the room for fun. And then soon there's another kid the group is worried it is going to die. Did I tell you that an unmedicated schizophrenic named Guy Veer has begun living with him? Mm-hmm. In early November 1980, Guy Veer joined the commune as the first new member of the group since their days at the healthy living clinic. He'd undergone treatment for depression at the same hospital that had declared Terrio mentally sound when the police took him in, you know, for some evaluations. And then hearing about Terrio on TV, Veer decided to head into the woods and just try and find him. And he fucking

did. After passing Gabrielle's examination, Veer was permitted to stay in the compound, but not in the main house. He has to be in the storage shed, away from Terrio and his family. He'll get a small wood stove, a case of 24 bottles of homebrew beer, two hens, a rooster, and a meal a day. What the fuck? Fear's job in addition to his normal responsibility to chop and wood storing rations in the winter and continuing construction on Moses's growing wood cabin palace will be to babysit the undesirables, right? The non-terio kits, right? Jesus Christ. The two-year-old who, his actual name is Samuel Jaguer, that's Ishmael, four-year-old Miriam Jaguerre, two-year-old Simone Willett, son of Solange and Claude.

during a brief cult marriage. Yeah, the name's different again because, you know, they got birth names, you got Moses names. It's confusing, I know. Terrio also has three kids of his own living on the compound in addition to Rock Jr. and Francois now. He has Joseph, you know, the kid with Giselle, also has another kid with Solange and another kid with Nicole.

Those kids will not be looked after by Veer. Rock said that Veer was mentally unstable and only fit to, quote, look after the animals. That is, children that were not of Rock's seat. So what could go wrong with this arrangement? So much. Let me tell you, there are two versions to this story, and they are both awful. Now we're getting into the real debaucher's shit.

First, the version, Rock and his sons claimed. One night when Junior has taken some firewood out to his little shack where he's living. Sorry, not shack where he's fucking guy is living and the undesirables. He finds his one of the which he's, you know, Ishmael, he's supposed to be watching over. he finds his dad and Guy and a woman named Judith, the group's nurse, bent over little Matthew. Matthew seems to be unconscious, swollen, and bruised. So what happened to Matthew? Well, the two-year-old snored, and that kept Guy up. So naturally, Guy beats the shit out of him. He's very ill, Rock told everyone present, and we'll have to resign ourselves to surgery, to operating.

He decides Matthew has a urinary tract infection, and they're going to have to cut him open and clean him out. So he prays a bunch, as every good surgeon does. He asks everyone else to pray, then he cuts into little guy, and he fucking kills him, because he's insane and not a doctor. Then he tells the group, a group that includes Matthew's father and mother, that they will now need to burn his body. And that's what they do on a funeral pyre. So now, they have killed a toddler and hidden the evidence, and to hide the crime further, Moses Rock writes up an incident report of sorts explaining that Matthew was trampled by a horse and died from his injuries. And then he gets everyone to agree that that's the official story. If they ever get questioned,

God's will be done. And then making shit even crazier, Moses Rock decides that Guy Veer needs to be punished for beating Matthew to the point that he needed a urinary tract infection surgery for some reason. And so what will his punishment be?

Well, he considered a lobotomy and he puts that to a vote, but the group votes against it. He'll have a lot of votes about stuff like this. I'm guessing he did that to reduce the chances of a mutiny, to give his followers the illusion of some sense of independence, and mostly I would imagine,

to make them complicit in the cult's worst crimes. after the failed lobotomy vote, Moses Rock pitches castration. And the group decides, you know what? Yeah, okay, yeah, that's fair. That's fair. And I'll let Rock Jr. tell you what happened next. With a solemn air, Dad comes to see me and announces that as the eldest son an heir to the throne.

I will have the honor of assisting them in this delicate operation. I turn pale, terrified by the idea of amputating guys' testicles. Visibly confident, Dad explained that he was going to use the same technique employed to castrate pigs. an operation he had already performed several times when he worked in a pig farm. I feel like I was in a real horror movie. Incredulous, I watched Dad wield the razor blade and make an incision under Guy's scrotum. As he lay on the table, drunk on wine and beer,

Guy is no longer able to defend himself, with the assurance of a professional. Dad removed both testicles before placing them in a handkerchief in the palm of my hand. I was completely paralyzed by horror. Dear God, somehow Guy will recover from this operation. and now for the second version of how this went down. This is the one that the court that will try, you know, and put Rock away for life accepted and it's even worse.

Samuel's face was bruised on the morning of March 24th following a beating by a guy that was actually not life threat, not even close. There was nothing else wrong with him. However, Terrio randomly decided that the kid needed to be circumcised now. This guy fucking loved to surgically fuck around with cox and balls. Rock used a 94% ethanol solution to do more than sterilize the razor. He also poured some of that into a rubber bulb,

which he then squeezed into the kid's mouth to knock him out. He likely poisoned him. This may have caused his death by alcohol poisoning, or he bled to death from a botched drunken circumcision. Either could have killed him. After hearing about her baby's death, Maris Grenier just goes back to work, because she is completely broken by this point.

The woman who did not even want to live on the compound has lost her husband, had her toe cut off, had her baby murdered. And she just convinced herself, I guess, this is all part of God's plan. Right? She's let Jesus take the wheel and drive. And he's still driving, even though he's treating the car of her life

like it's in a demolition derby. Then at supper, Terry O'D suggest that they burn the baby's remains, saying that if they buried them, birds or bears might get into them. You know, totally. Maurice, the boy's father, Jacques, they agree. Claude, Wollett, has the honors of burying a murdered toddler's corpse.

and then life of the compound goes back to quote normal. No castration for a guy at that time in this version, but then six months later. And I think this is actually what happened. One night in September, a drunken Moses becomes angry with veer for some other infraction, real or perceived, decides that he should stand trial for his crime of beating the baby the previous March.

So he appointed Jacques Jaguer, the baby's father to be the judge. Mamie, Giselle, will be the prosecution. This is so crazy. Claude Wollett is the lawyer for the defense. Gabriel is the corner. Rock's other six wives will act as a jury. Trial will last an hour and the verdict is unanimous.

Not guilty by reason of insanity. That's the perfect verdict for this insane trial. What is happening? These lunatics were holding the craziest mock trial ever out in the woods. Can you imagine just randomly hiking up to them at that point? Oh, okay. You know what? I see you guys are busy.

I didn't realize court was in session. I'm going to keep on hiking. Sorry for the interruption. Bayliff, grab him. Terry O was not satisfied with the court's decision. A couple of hours later, he took Jacques aside and suggested that they castrate Veer. He's filed an appeal with the court, I guess. Jiguerre does not like this idea, but Terrio calls for a vote.

Other way, anyway, another vote. I mean, he is basically God. And now a jury of 10 people, including Rock Jr., are out of this jury. of 10 people, sorry, only Rock Jr. and two others vote against this new motion. Jacques Giger, Maurice, Gignier, they're also not in favor of it. Everyone else, though, strongly in favor of snipping damn nuts.

Veer, who had stayed quiet through the whole evening, obviously not pumped about this, but somehow Terrio actually talks him into it. He tells him it's going to cure his headaches he's been having, as well as an excessive masturbation habit. That was causing some apparent. respiratory difficulties. Okay? He explains that in the hierarchy

of the group, Veer is a slave, and that if he undergoes this castration, he'll become a eunuch, which is kind of a step up. He, this poor guy, this guy is literally very mentally ill. He asked Veer to write a letter of consent, says that he won't make Veer sign it

if he really doesn't want to, but Veer signs it because he's manipulated into it. Terrio then has Veer lie in the kitchen table. After getting him good and drunk, Gabrielle, fetches some medical instruments, which are not really medical instruments, an elastic band, a razor blade, and a magnifying glass, a pair of tweezers,

and ethanol. The operation, I guess, is kind of painless. The testicles are discarded in the clinics, although veer scrotum will bleed now for a week. Gabrielle will give him a new saltwater compass every 20 minutes, and sure he gets a lot of iron in his diet. And then he never complains of another headache,

and his masturbation habit is gone. So you know what? Sure, his methods are unorthodox. But goddamn what they work. Hail Dr. Moses. Two months later in November of 1981, minus his balls, but still alive. Maybe regrettably so.

After getting sick of continual mistreatment, Guy wanders off into the woods. He leaves the compound. He's eventually found by the police who he will tell about a baby dying in the compound. And I think it takes a while for them to believe him because he's crazy.

And before I share the consequences of this admission, let me share how the cult tolerated these operations. that Rock is giving. One former member interviewed after leaving the group described how the idea of Rock as a healer took hold saying at first it didn't seem crazy. He talked about natural medicine, herbs, fasting. He said doctors were part of a corrupt system

that God had given him knowledge instead. When Rock started to mangle these poor bastards, his people didn't initially think they were being tortured they thought they were being treated. According to accounts compiled later by investigators, Terry O began began to perform crude medical procedures after declaring that certain members were spiritually or physically

infected. One former follower recalled, quote, he said something was inside of me, that it had to come out, that if we didn't remove it, it would spread. The tools he would use would not be sterilized. They would be given zero anesthesia,

most often, you know, not sterilized in most cases. Another survivor described, finally realizing how fucked up it all was, saying, that's when I realized this was not healing, but by then you just didn't say no. Saying no had consequences, right? To question Rock, to question God. One woman later told investigators, he didn't say he was hurting,

us, he said he was saving us. And if it hurt, that meant it was working. Right. Suffering is proof of righteousness. Survivors would talk of outright obvious punishment, so much punishment, from a police interview with the former follower. He said there were traitors among us that some of us were letting the devil in and that he could see it even if we couldn't. And once someone was labeled as having the devil inside them, they became a target for abuse. Punishments, mostly not private affairs, performed in front of the whole group as warnings and lessons. One survivor later described, He would make everyone watch. You had to stand there.

You couldn't look away. If you looked away, it meant you were hiding something too. Right? He's just normalizing this shit. Making everybody else not just witnesses, but participants. There are also things to being worked all day

and never being fed quite enough, so exhausted and confused. Right? They're physically and emotionally dependent on rock. As one former member put it, there was no outside. There was only him. And now, before reconnected with Guy Veer,

let me back up for just a moment. In the summer of 81, Jr. wrote that his mom was going to come visit him and his brother on the compound, and the group was instructed to give her a queen's welcome, and they did. He said he wanted to tell her about the horrors he had witnessed and been subjected to, but if he did and she didn't rescue him, he was afraid that he'd be killed. And he had seen so much horror in his words. Who knows what dad might do to me, or to her if he found out? I had told him. Or I had told her, I think he meant to say. And where would I even begin?

How could I tell her that all the members of the group, men, women and children were regularly beaten or humiliated, like the time he savagely threw me against a piece of furniture breaking my collarbone, and I had to spend a night in excruciating pain before, the next day, setting the fracture, my father decided to set the bones himself. I've never suffered so much in my life. How could I tell him that I witnessed so many horrific scenes? Like the time a man and a woman were forced to have sex in front of everyone, and then the man had to defecate on the woman's back. Or the time a man cut off one woman's toe and another's finger with a large pair of pliers. or on dad's orders,

and the severed finger and toe were then placed in a jar of formaldehyde. And the night Abraham nearly died after dad accidentally slit his throat during another drunken binge. Man, oh, Moses Rock just got off clearly on continually beating and humiliating people. Man, if you believe that he was God's representative, wouldn't you start hating God? Why would you want to worship a God who's that fucked? December of 191, law enforcement

raided the Eternal Mountain compound. They burst in and announced that Rock was under arrest along with Matthew's parents. Guy Beard had, as I mentioned, told them about the kid's death and about his own castration. All the minors are thankfully

now taken from the compound. Hail Nimrod, evaluated by social workers from youth protection services or child protection services and medical professionals. They are then temporarily placed in foster families.

Rock Jr., Francois, ended up in the care of a lady named Alice who nursed and fed them back to health. the boys are given the opportunity to return to their mom, but only Francois wanted to do that. Junior will stay with foster parents and wait for his dad's release from prison. In early 1982, Rock is sentenced to two years less a day

for criminal negligence resulted in the death of a child. Matthew's parents, as well as five other adults from the cult, also sentenced to prison, each person getting between nine months and a year for their complicity. Two days before Christmas, the group is given an eviction notice from Judge Jean-Rourke, Roy, to vacate the Eternal Mountain compound since they were never supposed to

fucking build a cabin there in the first place when they refused Forest Rangers were sent by the court to forcibly evict them and burn down the building in January of 83. Now most of the cult members despite all the abuse they have endured wait for Moses' return.

They're so brainwashed. Poor Rock Jr. while his dad is in prison, he thrives in foster care, does well in school, socially and academically becomes class president after all he'd been through. But all that progress will soon be lost. In the summer of 83, Rock Jr., just 13 years old,

after being shuffled from one foster family to another, ends up in the custody of his paternal grandma, Pierrette, Rock's mom, and cheese, also crazy. Rock has convinced her that he is a man of God, and she helped take care of his followers while he's in prison. They all wait for his release, including Jr. A few of the women even allowed conjugal visits with Rock, and he will get two of them pregnant from prison.

Fucking crazy never ends. And we have so much more to come. It's going to get so much more. course. Rock's parents are moved to, they even move to New Carlisle, Quebec, a little town that has a prison where Rock is transferred so they can be closer to baby boy. Despite everything that's happened, the cult gets most of the kids back from child protective services at some point. The group, they smoke fish to sell, raise a few farm animals while Rocks away. These activities combined with welfare payments allow the cult to survive. Also moved to Quebec City, the suburb of Charlesborg, after Rock is transferred to another prison near there to finish the sentence. February of 1984, Rock returns to his followers. 22 members have waited for his return.

Three men, nine women, 10 kids, they're basically all waited. He tells him he's done drinking now. No more violence. Oh, it's going to be so much better now. Praise God. Not longer after his return, wouldn't you know what God tells him

they're heading back out to the woods. Oh, yeah. He's got a new compound to build. He shares that plan with his now 15-year-old son, Rock Jr. He says he has found a nice remote piece of land in Ontario along the burnt river, which he had visited a few days earlier.

The ideal place to start fresh, you claim, since they could open a bakery, plant some fruit trees, hell yeah. Life would undoubtedly be so much easier than it was in the Gas Bay Peninsula. This place is about a nine-hour drive southwest of Thetford Mines. A few hours northeast of Toronto,

not quite as remote. A few days later, they all packed their bags, and they make a 10-hour drive. And they start all over. Digging drains and wells, you know, for a sanitation system. cutting down trees, starting to build a new cabin. You know, after all they've been through, they're going to do this shit all over again.

Their new sites even better, bigger, four separate buildings. They'll make money by collecting welfare checks again from the government, selling fruit and vegetables and baked goods. They grow from a little stand along the nearest road in the, like, I guess, in the town of Burnt River. Here in Burnt River, where after observing the coordinated labor of his followers, Rock will reportedly compare them to insects, specifically to ants. each one performing a task,

each one contributing to the whole, no individuality, no deviation. And from that image is how they get the name, the Ant Hill Kids. The group actually takes some fruit stands, or call some fruit stands at a bakery, the Ant Hill Kids. Members also will sell homemade bread

and pastries door to door and a local farmer's market. That's fucking crazy that you could have been going to a local farmer's market and seeing these people. Oh, and Rock is also making his follower shoplift from nearby stores.

stores in and around the little 250 person town of Burnt River. Francoe, who is now in a Catholic boarding school, gets a letter from his bro in the summer of 84, letting him know that he got arrested

along with several other cult members for shoplifting and was given a citation. Francois misses his brother but is so fucking glad. He's not back out in the woods with psycho dad. However, in that first letter he receives, Rock Jr. writes that dad is better now.

He's not cruel. He's not drinking. He's almost normal. He's not even going by mom. Moses at this point. Now he's back to Rock. But he's going to get crazy again. But before I get into that, Rock establishes a new hierarchy for the group in Burnt River, assigning each of his wives different responsibilities. The lowest of them all is Maurice Grinier. She is still in the cult. Rock made her husband cut one of her toes off, killed her baby, never liked him in the first place, right? And yet, she still waited along with her husband for him to get out of prison

and then headed back out into the woods. Unreal. Now in Burnt River, Terry O, forbids, Jacques. and Maurice from sleeping together, and he encourages Jacques to beat her, especially if she talks back to him or to Rock, even when she's pregnant. He also convinces Jacques that a birthmark she has looks like the letter number 666. It doesn't.

He eventually even orders her to live apart from everybody else in another little shed with her two kids until Rock later accepts her eldest daughter into the main group so he can molest her. In the fall of 1984, Moses Rock starts hitting the sauce again. and shit goes off the rails worse than ever. He relaxes some of the rules from before.

Now the Colts brewing their own beer, shoplifting liquor from various stores as well. No more Seventh-day Avenue is clean living for anyone. No more Doomsday. Now they're just selling fruit and baked goods and having orgies and getting tortured. Rock Jr. turned 16, recalls that his dad will go on multi-day drunken benders

during those time. The Colt will indeed have big orgies. Everybody's fucking everybody. Sometimes Junior even gets to join in fucking in the same room as God's prophet. father and son. What a world. Rock also lets Rock Jr. bring a cat, Noorine, that he had got while dad was in prison over to the burnt river compound so we can have a little pet, supposed to be sweet. January of 1985, Noireen gives birth to a litter of adorable kittens. A few weeks after that,

Moses Rock wakes his son up in the middle of the night. And I'll let Junior tell you in his own words what happens next. Aaron, you will learn that only one male must prevail, whether in a group of people or animals. Abraham, he ordered, you will kill Noreen's entire litter immediately. I was so distraught that I couldn't help but scream. No, Papa, please, don't kill my kittens. Despite my desperate pleas, dad remained unperturbed. His decision was made. Before my eyes, Abraham took the kittens and put them one by one into a burlap sack. Then he left a small house to carry out my father's order. Armed with a club, Abraham struck the sack repeatedly with all his might. The cries of pain from my kittens toward my heart. I was mortified, overwhelmed. It was the

first bereavement of my life. And despite my immense sadness, though, I didn't blame Abraham. I knew very well he had no choice but to obey. Otherwise, he would have gotten a real beating. Oh, gee, Papa is back. And as bad shit crazy as ever. Also in January of 1985, on the 26th, somewhere after 9 a.m., cult member Gabriel Lavalé, she put her five-month-old baby, a little boy, Rock's son Eliaser in a wheelbarrow and left him outside to die. It was snowing and the temperature was around 14 degrees Fahrenheit. By 10.45 a.m., the baby was frozen to death.

Why'd you do that? Because Rock hated Eliezer and said he bore the mark of the devil. Rock was beaten little Eliezer all the time. Gabrielle thought that this would be an act of mercy. My God. The county corner Al Lacki, a friend of Therios, for some unknown reason. will claim the child had died from sudden infant death syndrome. In the summer of 1985 now, Rock kills Noireen the cat as well.

The cat scratched him when he grabbed it, and he yelled, according to his eldest son, Oh, yes, you think you're the boss? Abraham, grab her by the scruff of the neck. I'll give her one whack with a shovel, just one. We'll settle this. I'm the master here. She scratched me. She deserves to die.

And then he indeed took a shovel and bashed the cat's head in. And now finally, Rock Jr. starts to despise his father. and soon he will run away after even more insane violence. In his words, as the months go by, the violent episodes multiply. Inwardly, I increasingly question my father's actions and begin to wonder about my future in the community. Even though I'm still very attached to my father, I dream of going back to school leading a more normal life. But in the meantime, I have to submit to his harsh will. One evening, when he's drunk, too much again.

And so have I. My father orders me to punish one of his wives, knowing full well that if I don't obey, he'll beat her himself. but even more brutally, I start to beat her, all the while trying to be gentle. Dad insists and takes the time to show me exactly how to do it so I don't miss it. Disgusted, I relive the many horrific scenes I experienced in the Gas Bay Peninsula, and suddenly I'm struck by a flash of clarity. It's impossible to continue like this. We all are at risk of dying.

That's when I did something I never thought myself capable of. I grabbed my father by the neck, and I pinned him to the ground for about 15 seconds. The audacity I displayed surprised even myself. I was petrified. beside himself with rage, my father taking advantage of my distress, quickly managed to break free, and after knocking me over, slammed my head violently against the floor. The next day my father was finally sober, but he hadn't lost his memory.

With a dark and terrible expression, he came to see me and declared gravely, you would never do that to your father. Swallowing hard, I realized with horror that I'd crossed the line. With a vengeful look in his eye, my father made it clear that I was in for a rude awakening. A few days later, Dad suddenly announced he was going to give me a haircut and shave my head. Rightly or wrongly, I imagined that this was a prelude to a terrible corporal punishment, if not my execution. I remember all too well seeing him shave the head of one of his wives and then brutalize her more cruelly than usual. I panicked. I'm so afraid of dying that without

thinking I fled, barefoot in the forest wearing only my underwear, I ran across the frozen ground. The pain under my feet was unbearable, but I don't slow down, terrified that my father might catch me. Quickly another fear crosses my mind, that I'll be shot by a hunter. In the middle of November, I risk being mistaken for a deer, running like that almost naked through the forest. To avoid any misunderstanding, I sing at the top of my lungs, hoping that any hunters will be able to distinguish me from their prey. Reach in the edge of the woods, I jumped into the group's car. Luckily, as I'd expected, the keys were hidden in the sun's visor, or in the sun visor. Shivering with cold, I turned the key and sped off. However, as soon as I reached the first village,

I was spotted by two police officers, intrigued to see a teenager in his underwear behind the wheel of a car. I didn't dare tell them my whole story, so I simply confessed I was a runaway because my dad had tried to beat me. Having nowhere to take refuge, the police directed me to a religious community in the area. They were born again Christians who generously agreed to take me in. I received a warm welcome. They treated my injured feet, offered me a meal in a comfortable bed. As I fell asleep, I led out a deep sigh of relief. Finally, I'd managed to escape this hell. By staying here for a while, by continuing to work in the cabbage fields, I would surely be able to save money and arrange to return to school.

Well, he will make it back to Quebec, back to Thetford Mines, where he will reunite with his mother, Francine, and his brother Francois. But things won't go well for these two kids now. They've been through too much. All right, they get into a bunch of mischief, they rebel, they get into drugs a little, hopefully not harsh stuff like cocaine. They knew.

If you even snort cocaine one time, you're a degenerate forever and ever, amen. But for real, they're getting some hijinks. Francois gets expelled from school puts on probation for getting caught breaking into a local convenience store trying to steal cigarettes and beer with his cousin Rock Jr. drops out of school to make money, party, and get high.

Their mom kicks them both out. Then they get on a bus, get an apartment together in San Hyacinth, just east of Montreal. But they have a hard time making steady money and taking care of themselves. Of course they do after their fucking insane childhood. And soon their dad contacts him.

Tells him he's stop drinking again. Now he has a business proposal for them. Seriously, this shit just never ends. But before the reunion, while they were away, Maurice Grinier, the only adult woman of the group Terry O has not taken as his own wife, the woman with the mark of the beast, the woman he hates, the woman he's tortured. She's finally permitted to leave with two of her three surviving children, a two-year-old and an infant. The only condition of her release, that she must leave her eldest daughter, a girl she had born before her days with the cult who was now nearing puberty behind

destined to soon become the next of Rock's wives. He wants to keep molesting her. And so what does Maris do? She fucking leaves her eldest daughter with his pedo monster. She hightails it out of there. But then, after months of learning how to function in the real world and being deprogrammed a bit,

she wakes the fuck up, decides she will pursue legal action to get custody of her remaining daughter. And that leads to a huge investigation that does get all of the kids at the burnt river compound taken out of the compound again. Right? They're taken by the authorities.

They're made war to the state. So hail them out for that. However, despite Maris' testimony, no charges of molestation are brought against Rock. Right? Because the other cult members won't testify. But at least she got her kids out of there. But now Rock is fucking more unhinged than ever.

And that's saying a lot. Retreating into the woods for a couple of days becomes a common tactic for many of the Ant Hill kids to escape his escalating violence. Giselle in particular, right, is his first main wife in the cult days, will sometimes retreat to her father's house for a few days, but then Rock will call her,

will convince her to come back to her real family, he'll treat her very nicely for a little while, and then invariably she'll be punished for running away and bringing dishonor to him. Excuse me, one night in February of 1997, Rock throws a hunting knife at his wife, old Mamie Giselle, creating a wound three inches deep in her thigh,

which immediately begins to gush blood. His response is to, go get another beer. And then just go to sleep. Just let her bleed. When he wakes up two hours later, a clot has formed in Giselle's leg, which has swollen. He decides to operate now.

I'm still fucking drunk. Pressing the leg to cause the wound to reopen, probing it with the red hot iron file, and pouring cup after cup of boiling water on this lake. Week later, the wound is infected for some crazy reason. Now Rock decides to fill the one with salt, olive oil, and spruce gum.

After her leg heals a bit, Jesus Christ, she tries to escape again, but a few days later, goes back to Rock. She believed this was all part of God's plan. And there was more brutality during this era of the Anhoekids, of course. Rock once passed an acetylene torch

over Jose's back until the skin bubbled. Also passed it over Nicole's tummy the day she gave birth for the first time. He hit Jacques in the head with a blunt axe, broke his ribs with the wooden club, beat Nicole when she was three months pregnant, causing her to miscarry. On another occasion,

just shot her in the shoulder with a 303 rifle, broke Giselle's ribs with his steel-toed boots, methodically spraying Claude's toes one day, one by one. Another time,

he used a piece of broken glass to slice Claude's arm open. Another occasion, pulled out 11 of Claude's teeth. Pulled him out with a pair of pliers when there was nothing wrong with his teeth. But they had the devil in him.

Had one of his wives break Claude's lakes with a legs with a sledgehammer one day, squeeze Gabriel's and Giselle's nipples with vice grips until they started to bleed, hog-tied claw, suspended him from the ceiling for an hour, and ordered his wives to pluck his pubic hair out one by one until he was bald. Poured boiling water on Claude one time.

Another time he made him, made Claude sit down on a lit stove, beat a fucking horse to death with a chain, ordered Claude to burn the horse's body, made all of his followers eat literal shit and dead rotting mice. once punched Solange in the neck so hard it knocked her out shot a rifle at various members

had Jacques pound Gabriel's thigh with a sledgehammer squeeze Gabriel's hand in a vice until it broke whipped Gabriel in the eye with the belt nearly blinded her, stuck a hypodermic needle in her back with an unknown concoction in it, then twisted it so the tip broke off under her skin.

Burned Gabriel's breast and gentles with a torch. Had Jacques cut off half of Gabriel's left baby finger with a pair of wire cutters, broke Gabriel's fingers with a board, made her cut a hole in the ice of a pond, and then jump into the freezing water, threw a knife at Francine,

broke Solange's cheekbone when she was six months pregnant. Rock clearly drunk on power and staying and bored would also sometimes organize no holds barred nude wrestling matches between the women, or maybe put a man in the middle of a circle and tell the women to hit and kick him,

just to fucking amuse him. Sometimes he would join in on the matches, but the rules would change. If you scored a hit on him, it would come out of your food rations. Sometimes he'd beat or whip his followers. Sometimes he would strike them with the broad side of an axe or with a hammer.

They were forbidden to go to the hospital. Sometimes he'd piss on them, forced them to perform analingus to eat each other's assholes out or smear themselves with each other's shit. Just nothing but pain and humiliation. Once he slapped Jacques Giger's jugular or slashed at it with a broken wine glass,

also ordered Jacques to be circumcised, my god and then while he was drunk he cut the entire head of his dick off he circumcised the entire tip of his dick off just mutilating these people and this next mutilation is more upsetting oh my god this is so fucking

this is one of the most brutal passages in the history of the show at one point gabriel's uterus prolapsed after a hard day of working the organ actually was protruding three inches outside of her vagina how did Rock attempt to fix it himself

by literally punching punching it inside of her body, punched it back into her body, then fashioned a wooden cone and trust to plug everything up after she'd passed out from the pain. Rock's next treatment, when it still wasn't fixed,

was it, oh my God, was it a tie piece of string around it, around the exposed portion of the uterus, and yank at it like a fucking loose tooth. It'll be a whole year before she'll be able to get proper medical attention for the shit. And she'll get proper medical attention

when Rock leaves for a little trip to Utah to talk to some Mormon fundamentalists about live with multiple wives and she'll get her hysterectomy. God, there's so fucking much evil with this guy. Now let's reconnect with his two firstborn sons. In May of 1987,

they meet Rock about this business proposal. He has just turned 40. At a restaurant, he hugs and kisses them, gets emotional. He seems so overjoyed to see them, explains in detail, wants to take them back to, you know, the burnt river camp.

He says he has an absolutely brilliant business idea. He needs strong arms, hard work and labor to help with his projects, and he just loves them. He says the community is already doing so much better than they ever were before. Thanks to their sale of bread baked in their artisanal bakery, but to generate even more income, he wants to start making wooden garden furniture like chairs and tables and swings. He's excited, he's enthusiastic. He tells us not about a sawmill.

He's recently upgraded by installing a powerful car engine, which allows them to work more efficiently than ever. If all goes well, he says they can even start building snowmobile shelters or small cabins for vacation. occasioners, which Junior and Francois will install. He says he wants to partner with his two eldest sons, right? Share the profits. They have the skills and experience and manual labor necessary for this business. And Rock and Jr. and Francois unanimously accept. My gut.

They'll make no money in this, by the way. He will never fucking share the profits. And they have no idea how hellish things have been recently. Within hours, they're driving with their dad out to Burt River on Highway 401. On the way, Rock Jr. tells his dad, he's excited to see his half-brother Joseph again, Rock tells him, unfortunately, authorities came by recently, took all the kids, but don't even worry about it. Don't even worry about it. We're going to have ice cream, and we're going to get the kids back eventually.

So they have ice cream. It's all fun. And then he does say something super concerning, because of course he does. He does tell them that they have to get their half-sisters back from the authorities because God told him in another vision that two of those girls are destined to be Rock Jr. and Francois's wives. Mm-hmm. God needs them to marry their half-sisters. God loves incest so much. They hope he's speaking a metaphor, but he's not.

The first night of the boy's return is wonderful. As Rock Jr. described it, upon arriving at the campsite, I excitedly noticed a new wooden building. The bakery dad had told us about the group's main source of activity. Despite the late hour, the entire village had gathered in the main building to welcome us. The cooks had prepared a veritable banquet with crackers, appetizers, and fish dishes. Happened to be back with our extended family, I kissed each member of the group in turn, noticing the emptiness of the

left by the children's absence. I couldn't help and wonder about the reasons that motivated the authorities to remove them from the group, but I quickly put those worries out of my mind. It's time to celebrate, and I pick up my guitar to mark the occasion by playing a tune by the band Triumph. With relief, I noticed that Dad doesn't drink all evening, and everyone seems to be having a wonderful time.

Who knows? Maybe everything will turn out all right in the end. Oh, no. Uh-uh. No, things will not. But they'll be okay for a while. to carry out their dad's new business ventures, Jr. Francois, initially follow a very strict schedule, worked their asses off. In the mornings, they cut wood and saw it into planks. In the afternoons, they build furniture with pre-dried planks.

Two half days a week, they go deep into the woods, fall some large trees, real lumberjack shit. The three of them, Rock Sauvain, Moses Rock, Francois, they make a fantastic team. Moses Rock is already dreaming. There's bigger projects in mind. Fall goes well with the patio furniture. He wants to, you know, make that.

that sawmill bigger, right? Build those cabins. And they've really let go of all the apocalypse shit, you know? No more talk about the end of the world. They even have a neighbor who wants to buy them a cabin when they're ready. Another neighbor, a wealthy judge has already ordered a beautiful wooden swing set. And when I hear neighbors, it makes me think that they're at least renting the land they're on. That's not made clear in sources. Soon, dad starts drinking again, though. You know, he briefly became sober right before he met up with his sons, but now he's back on the sauce. And then one night, after hitting the sauce, he challenges his son, Jr. to a boxing match. And he breaks his fucking nose.

But Jr. did agree to the match. And Moses Rock seemed apologetic after he schooled him. So he's like, okay, okay, could be worse. Then he teaches Francois, aka Malachi to box. Nearly knocks him unconscious with some uppercuts to the chin, but does teach him some stuff. A few nights later, when drunk again, Moses Rock now wants to show off some more knife-throwing skills.

He'd ask Junior or take a stand against the wall for a little demonstration. Junior's reluctant. He doesn't want to die for some reason. He's a silly little bitch. Moses Rock insists, come on, Aaron, go ahead. Don't forget, you're my flesh and blood. I won't hurt you. Rock Silvan takes his place, closes his eyes,

while dad downs a few ounces, a cognac, before taking a running start and hurling a big butcher knife in his son's direction. It barely misses him. Sinks deeply into the wall. Yay, what a fun game. Then he wants to play a game

with the boy's cousin, Simon, his nephew, who's come out for a few weeks to help with this woodworking. starts throwing the knife towards the floor near Simon's feet and soon sticks a fucking blade in his foot. Fun game. Glaring at Moses Rock furiously. Simon pulls a knife from his foot before storming out of the house. Junior takes off after Simon and that pisses Moses Rock off.

How dare Simon be mad about being stabbed? He announces he suddenly wants to go out bear hunting and ask for his rifle. Francois tells Angel to hide the bullets, luckily she does. But then he demands his crossbow. Convinced his dad might kill his brother and cousin. Francois runs out, finds the two hiding behind a woodpile, convinces them to come back inside, apologize for being mad about being stabbed. They do, and Simon leaves a short time later.

Hell yeah, he's not an ant-hill kid. He doesn't think, you know, Rock is holy. He knows his shit's insane. Not long after that, Rock gets drunk, starts babbling about being the master of life and death, good and bad creator, becomes enraged at Claude Wollett, for some reason that nobody remembers, orders him to walk around with an elastic band wrapped tightly around his nuts.

Seriously. He keeps the rubber band on his balls overnight despite excruciating pain, which causes irreparable damage to his testicles, which of course prompts Dr. Moses to operate.

Dr. Rock, ready to remove some more nuts. He uses a razor blade to cut open cloud scrotum, plucks out an infected testicle that has, you know, been shattered essentially, been fucking smushed,

just takes it out with his fingers, then cauterizes the wound with a hot piece of iron. Like, this guy's just a pig or a cow. Then he holds a vote to determine whether Claude should be stoned to death for offending God. And when that motion is defeated, Rock takes up an acetylene torch and threatens to open up Claude's stomach with it, to burn it open. Claude, down a nut, manages to escape out into the woods where he stays until Terry O is sober again. Jesus Christ. Here's how this ordeal went down in Rock Jr.'s words. He'll refer to Claude as Paul, right? I think Paul, I guess, was the biblical name, Claude. Fucking Rock gave Claude. After drinking a good dozen beers, my father tells me that once

again, I'll be assisting him during the operation. Suddenly, I see in detail the procedure that seven years earlier led to guys emasculation. I really don't want to relive such horror, and I'd like to encourage Paul to get treatment of the hospital, but I'm far too afraid. My father ordered Paul to drink about 20 ounces of 90% alcohol to numb him, then to lie down in the large table in the bakery. Meanwhile, my father meticulously sharpened. small butcher's knife. Once satisfied with the result, with a practice hand, he began to cut into the most damaged part of Paul Scrotum. Having snapped out of his stupor caused by the pain, without a doubt, horrifyingly, Paul suddenly sat up. Immediately my father knocked him unconscious with a solid punch,

saying, stay down. I'm not finished yet. Meanwhile, the blood flowing profusely from the wound, has formed a small pool on the table, already beginning to clot. A pungent odor filled the room. Paul half-conscious moaned weakly in pain. He had lost a lot of blood, and it was still flowing. To stop the hemorrhage, my father decided to heat a welding rod, red-hot with a torch, hoping to coterize the blood vessels. It was no use. Paul was still bleeding heavily. My father then concluded that to save Paul, he had no other choice but to perform a transfusion.

Using a small plastic tube, he cut at an angle. He first tried to pierce the carotid artery of one of his wives, but failing abandoned this plan. I'm devastated. Even my father is distraught. Helpless in the face of these events, he begs me to do something, to intervene and save Paul. Instinctly with my left hand, I apply firm pressure to the wound. Blood spurts between my fingers, but I hold on.

Deep down, I pray that Paul will survive this horrific carnage. Finally, my nerves give way. Convinced that Paul is living his last moment, unable to bear it any longer, I suddenly take to my heels. Instinctively, I run towards a large vault, intending to take refuge there. Suddenly, I see Mother, also trying to hide in the same place. In a few words, I recount what has happened and tell her how scared I am. She then eagerly asked me to walk her back to the main road. Her mind has been made up.

She wants to leave the village. While I'm driving the old truck, we mostly talk about what has just happened, about the fear it causes us. I forget to ask her if she wants to leave the group for good, or if she plans to come back someday. As for me, despite everything, I decide not to leave. But that incident will soon cause Junior Enfrancois to leave. They will flee for good,

never returning to the horrors of the Ant Hill kids. And they will go on for a life of, you know, being in and out of jobs, in and out of relationships, and in and out of drug rehabilitation centers by the time they write their book. For those left behind, even more horror awaits.

Rock will not handle his primary wife and two sons leaving him well at all. In September of 1988, one of Terrio's plural wives, Solange, Bouillard, complains of a stomachache. This is fucking beyond brutal. What has,

happens next will be the craziest shit I've ever heard of a cult leader doing to anyone. Terry O. convinced her there was something wrong with her liver and that she needed to have an operation and then Dr. Rock gets shit-faced and he walks around grabbing and strangling his various wives for a while

asking them if they knew that their breath belonged to him. As a doctor does. Then he turned to Solange and said, Rachel, are you ready? I'm going to treat you tonight. Rachel, of course, being the fucking name he gave her. Leading everyone into the bakery. He clears off the table, has Solange, undress

herself, and lay down. Rock then roughly tries to push an enema tube upper butt. In it is a mixture of molasses, oil, and water. Spends about a half an hour trying to get this done and can't. Encourages her not to be embarrassed by losing control over bodily functions.

Then he starts pressing and punching down on her stomach. When she puts her hands up to fend him off because he is hurting her. He tells her to move her hands. She does. Then he inserts another tube down her throat tells everyone to blow and suck on the tube. You know, to help her breathe, because that's how that works. So I mentioned he's insane and shit-faced. Next, taking a knife.

He makes a five-inch vertical incision on her right side below her ribs, pulls out some strip of random tissue, pulls out some flesh about four inches long, quarter of an inch thick, literally tears it off, telling her there, you're going to be all right. No anesthetic, other than just being fucking, you know, giving a bunch of alcohol. Then he has somebody else so, her wound closed and so long somehow gets up, everyone goes back to the cabin, he orders a warm bath to be drawn for her. He then, uh, this makes her feel worse,

and he gives her a cold bath. And when she goes back to bed, blood starts to come out of her mouth, and she dies. The doctors later said she had died of acute peritonitis, an inflammation of the peritoneum caused by digestive fluid leaking into her abdominal cavity. Or he fucking just destroyed her insights.

At first, Rock is distraught. He tries to kill himself in a number of ways, tries to get Jacques Jaguer to shoot him, tries to overdose on Tylenol Extra Strength tablets, uh-huh, tries to drown himself, but not really. According to a letter, he wrote later to the spirit of the deceased Solange, A strange force entered my arms and tore the bindings from me.

I come out of the water yelling, God doesn't want me to die. After sending Jacques to fetch Giselle from her parents' house, he then explained that he has been having dreams in which Solange is inside Terrio's body, dreams in which Solange take shape from Rock's spilt semen. Yep.

Seven dreams about him coming and then literally rebuilding Solange with his come. Think Claymation, but with cum, comation, I guess. Terrio then becomes convinced that Solange will be the first, quote, reverse birth, a spiritual rebirth through the belly of a man to parallel

the carnal rebirth through the womb of the female. And now, Rock, who is crazy, easier than ever somehow, becomes convinced that he is pregnant with his deceased wife, Solange. Wow, wow, wow, wow. He orders Claude to exhume Solange's fucking body because they buried her on the property. He then has Gabriel open up Solange's body and pours vinegar and she pours vinegar on her internal organs to keep the worms away, he says. And then they have her bury her again for unclear reasons.

Then a few days later, probably three days, Rock has them dig her up again. her body is beginning to decay but Terrio not worried he has big plans to fix that he has Jacques drilling hole in Solange's skull with a handrail and then here we go we have finally reached peak debauchery he literally jerks off into that hole while his cult watches him

he spills his seed into Solange's rotting brain convinced that this seed that is impregnated with her spirit will bring her back to life and the craziest part about all of this it fucking worked I gotta give him a lot of credit I thought it was too much

I thought he had gone fucking too far off the rails but you know what I guess he was crazy like a fox because she is now alive no no she stayed very dead after his come erection didn't work Giselle now told Tereo

that Solange's wish was to be cremated how is this real life Rock agreed to have the group burn her body now But before the cremation He has Gabriel remove one of her ribs Which he keeps in a leather wrapping to carry around with him After the cremation everybody takes some of her bones He collects fragments, puts him in a jar

With some olive oil as a preservative And then he will regularly Jerk off into this jar In additional attempts to bring her back to life Through his notion of reverse birth come erection After all that Rock is able to conceal the knowledge of her death from her family and from the police for a little while

also keeps the birth of two more cold kids a secret for a little while okay we're almost done now that's the fucking craziest thing I think I've ever heard of at least in the running for it but we do have more brutality intense brutality before this is all over in November of 1988 Terrio extracted eight of Gabriel Lavalais's teeth with a pair of pliers to punish her for low pastry sales

that'll teach her not to hawk those fucking blueberry muffins aggressively enough. July 26, 1989, Rock gets drunk again. Giselle, Claude, Francine, Marisse, they all managed to sneak away into the bush to hide. Gabrielle, however, does not. Terrio remember that Gabriel had a stiff pinky finger, the one that he hadn't already tried to cut off with wirecutters,

and he tells her to put her hand on the kitchen table. Instead of looking at the finger, then, he changed his mind, and he stabs her in the hand with a hunt knife. Pending her to the table, blood begins to pour from the hand. Rock walks away to drink more beer. She remains where she is, too scared to take the knife out. About 45 minutes later, Rock comes back, sees that Gabriel's whole arm has turned blue.

It's not looking... This is what he says. He's not looking so good, is it? And then he fetches a carpet knife. And then this made me want to throw up. He begins to whittle her arm away. Holy fuck. Halfway between the elbow and the shoulder.

He fucking whittles it to the bone. Just worst whittling ever. Too drunk to finish, he then calls Chantal. Or Chantal, yeah, over to finish the job. She clears away a narrow band of exposed bones. Oh no! Oh! And then Rock dislodges the hunting knife,

which was still in her fucking hand, pending her to the table, takes her over to a tree stump that they had fucking grown out of their kitchen floor, takes a dull meat cleaver, and swings at the exposed bone but misses. But then with the second swing, he amputates what's left of her arm.

My God. Somehow she doesn't die from this. Even more impressive, the next day she goes to a women's shelter, but she doesn't rat out rock, and then she returns to the compound. because Jock begged her to come back. They're all so fucking insane right now.

A couple days later, Terry O decides that Gabriel's stump is gangrenous. Oh my God! And he uses a pair of scissors to cut out the infection. Also, just for fun, I guess he cuts a chunk out of her breast. And he waxed her on the head with the fucking side of an axe. And then she flees into the bush. And when she comes to her senses two days later, because she passed out, she finds that insects have laid eggs in her head wound.

She has a fucking open head wound on top of all this. Uh, she then returns to the cabin, only to find Terrio still drunk and inching for more operations. My God. Jock uses the acetylene torch to cut a piece of the drive shaft off of one of his old junk cars. He had been in the yard, I guess. He heats the metal up until it's red hot, pressed it against her stump. He's so drunk, he keeps dropping it on her body before he finally finishes. After all that carnage, she escapes again. And she actually makes it to a hospital.

August 16th, 199, she makes it to a hospital initially concoct some bullshit story to explain all her wounds police are like, nope. The constable files a charge of aggregated assault initially against Rock Terrio. Then when the police arrive, August 19th, the compound is deserted. Rock? Jacques Gigerre, Chantal Lebris,

Nicole Ruel, all of this cold since the fucking beginning, together with two babies, have fled to Quebec. The others have gone home to their families. Rock's spell has finally been broken. It'll take the police six weeks to find Terrio. It was not until October 6, 1989,

that Giselle decided to tell anybody about Solange's death, unbeknown to de Zelle, that very day Rock is apprehended by the police at last. Everyone pleads guilty to all charges laid against him relating to Gabriel's amputation. Rock gets 12 years, later reduced to 10 because of his, quote, genuine remorse and concern for the victim, in the words of the court.

Fucking idiot court. Jacques gets five years. Chantelle, two years, last one day, and Nicole 18 months. Why would it matter how much remorse you show after you do something like that? The police also pressed charges against Rock for the first-degree murder of Solange,

but when the court finds there is insufficient evidence that the murder had been premeditated, Terrio committed to a trial for second-degree murder. His lawyers make a deal. He'll plead guilty to the charge if no further charges are brought against him. He does. January 18th, 1993, Rock Terrio sentenced to life in prison, thank God. However, eligible for parole in 1999.

Six years later, what the fuck? Fuck this court system. Francine, Chantal, Nicole, Agla, Ruth, Deborah, whatever. They remain loyal to wrong. Fox still after all this shit. How many children, somewhere over 20, are distributed amongst foster homes across the continent? After all this,

many prison staff will speak very highly of Terrio. They find him to be very likable and charismatic because they're fucking stupid. Now, finally, some good news. Terrio's applications for parole are rejected on numerous occasions. And then, February 26, 2011, yes, Terrio brutally stabbed to death at the age of 63

by his cellmate, Matthew Gerard McDonald, a fellow convicted murderer at Dorchester Penitentiary in New Brunswick. Hail Nimrod. Per the CBC. McDonald was seen on a video from the institution going into Terrio's cell. He then is seen emerging and pulling a shank from Mr. Terrio's neck. Crown prosecutor Anthony Allman told the news outlet. And then he goes to the guards and says, in rather cruder words, that he had just killed Mr.

Terrio. Hell yes. I got that motherfucker. MacDonald had expressed some animosity towards Mr. Terrio and his prior convictions for killing a woman and maiming another. He said some things about Mr. Terrio's prior record for convictions which involve girls and women, the news outlet said. McDonald was already serving a life sentence with no possibility of parole, so this murder did not affect the terms of his incarceration. Hail Matthew Gerard MacDonald. He gave a violent man a very deserved violent death.

I hope that Rock as he bled out died in terror. truly afraid that he was going to go to hell for all the evil shit he'd done. And that, at long last, is it for this incredibly debauchous timeline. Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely.

You know what? After having a moment to kind of reflect on what we just talked about, I feel like I may have oversold the brutality of this episode. I mean, after making it through it, I mean, I don't know that was that bad, actually. Right? I mean, yeah, some people lost fingers and teeth.

and stuff, but a lot of people lose fingers and teeth. All right, Rock was a mean drunk. Okay, a lot of people were mean drunk. But he made tasty pancakes. You know, he hug people sometimes, so no one's perfect, right? Pros and cons. No. Rock was insanely brutal.

My God, as brutal as any other cult leader has ever been, or more so, just fucking vicious to his followers. And for that long and still kept most of them around, right? That shit went on for like a decade. Oh, my gosh. I remembered Rock being brutal from the live show, but. Even worse than I remembered, there are just no limits to what kinds of suffering and insanity people can rationalize and have normalized, sadly. Which is why it'll always be so important to speak up against cruelty and so many forms to remind people, no, this is not fucking normal.

This is fucked. And after all, I don't think I have anything else to add about all this. That just is such a crazy story. Let's get to the takeaways. Takeaways. Number one, Rock Silvan Therio, born May 16th, 1947, in the little 800-ish purse village of San Apifan. Outside of his father's membership in a fringe Catholic organization, the white parades,

hoping to force some kind of nonsensical social credit economic theory in the world, he'll have a pretty normal childhood. Number two, as a young adult, Rock marries a young woman named Francine Grasier or Gwainier, with whom he will have two sons, Rock Silvan, aka Rock Jr., and Francois. Shortly after the birth of his second son, his marriage will start to fall apart thanks to his womanizing, drinking, and born-again religious notions, and then he will start to organize five-day, seventh-day avonist health-living seminars, designed to get people to quit smoking and adopt a healthier lifestyle.

Number three, from those seminars, Rock will recruit most of his future Ant Hill kids in the late 70s, getting them to head with him out into the woods of the Gaspe Peninsula for the end of the world on February 19, 1979. Number four, the world does not end on February 19, 1979. But now that that little cult was away from society, so much brutality ensued. A decade of torture and humiliation culminating in the murder of Solange, Boliard, and her attempted resurrection by ejaculating into a drilled hole in her skull after she had been dead for around a week. Number five, new info. Speaking of Solange, there's a second version out there in sources of Rock's attempt to bring Solange, voila.

I kept messing her last name up. Sorry about that. Back to life after mutilating her in a botched operation, then burying her, then having her dug back up, then burying her again, digging her back up, drilling a hole in her skull. In the second version of her come erection, Rock masturbated into her skull after demanding that every other male member of the cult at that point, also masturbate into her school. They all had to watch each other. Even Jacques Jiguerre, who was missing the tip of his dick, forced to do this. The craziest thing I've ever heard of might have been crazier than I previously described.

Time suck. Top five takeaways. The Anheel Kids, most brutal cult ever, has been sucked. Are you traumatized? Me too. Wow. Thank you to the Bad Magic Productions team for all their help and making time suck. You can go again to bad magic productions.com to get the new Ant Hill Kids Tea. The re-printing of the I survived. The Ant Hill Kids suck tea.

Thanks to Queen of Bad Magic, Lindsay Cummins. I did not talk to her a lot about this episode this week. Thanks to Logan Keith helping to publish the episode designing merch for the store at badmagicproductions.com. I did all the research myself this week Like a fucking idiot Also Thanks to the all seen eyes Moderating the cold of the curious Private Facebook page

The Mod Squad for making sure Discord keeps running smooth And everybody over on the TimeSuck And bad magic subredits And now let's head on over to this week's Time Sucker Updates And see what our fantastic community has to say Dates

Get your Time Sucker updates Gonna start off From the email Send it to Bojangles at timesuckpodcast.com with a quick update from my astral cousin, Jeremy McDaniel, who sent in a message with the subject line of astral familial update.

What's up, ladies and gentlemen, and everyone in between? I recently listened to the suck from March 23rd after hearing the update from the sucker who was mentioned forced underage marriage. I did a quick Google search. Learn that Nimrod is super happy about how things are changing.

Childbirths to people from 15 to 19 has dropped 79% since the early 90s, small victory for Team Meat Sack. Hang on. The Astral planes are contacting me. I wait. No shit. We used to be cousins. About 69,487 years ago. Damn how time flies.

Anyways, Michigas, L.O.L. Please put in a good word with me, with Michael motherfucker McDonald. P.S., there is a river near me that was named to defeat your mushmouth. The Yacanuk... What the fuck? The Yacanukin. The Yacanukini. Good luck, my lord. Jerry.

Jerry, thank you, fam. That is great news. I feel like not having kids have kids, that's a good minimum threshold for, you know, a collective hope for the future humanity. It'd be nice to have less kids have kids. Glad to see that while the world feels more on fire than it's been in a long time. Some shit is heading in the right direction. See you with the Astral Family Cookout Cuzz. And next up, long-time super smart sack Ben Goldstein sent in a message with the subject line of money,

money, money, money, money, U.S. health care update. Greetings, Comrade Cummins. Thought you might be interested in some research relating to the American health care system, articles attached. To summarize, the 2017 study found that at least at the time, I expect it is still true while the U.S. spends the most by far in health, we spend comparatively very little on other social services. Within health care, a lot of costs could be offset by investing more in preventative medicine.

Similarly, by putting more funds into social services, we would likely need less for health. And since you mentioned the thing of incentive structures for doctors to do risky procedures to maximize billing, I have even more corruption fee. The 2022 study took the top two medical journals, let's see, one being the AMAs, of course, and found extremely high rates as an 81 fucking percent of authors had financial conflicts of interest they did not disclose to journals when seeking publication. The researchers of the study were able to figure this out with data from the open payments website. They put out info on financial relationships

that had to be disclosed for the government as part of the ACA. Of course, a conflict of interest doesn't necessarily mean a research finding is wrong, but it increases the potential of impact of bias, so the scale is certainly concerning.

That's all for me. Hope you found it worthwhile. Keep doing what you're doing, bad magicians, knowledge of Nimrod. Space lizard, Ben Goldstein. Yes, Ben, yes. Prevention is so important. And it is a shame.

There's so little focus on it. in the U.S. Since I cut out over 90% of the sugar and overall carbs my diet back in January, my blood works the best has ever been, my digestion is the best it's ever been. And after getting used to this dude died, you know, I don't have the cravings anymore.

I've dropped 20 pounds of what has to be almost all fat since my strength hasn't changed at the gym, and I'm down three bell loops. Didn't change my workout at all. Just changed my diet since eating, you know, you know, just since making better food choices. and other than home, where did I learn to eat like shit? At school and at college, public school and then at college.

I grew up in heavily processed, highly sweetened cafeteria food, you know, had more of that in college. The only restaurant I could use my meal plan money on college between 8 and 11 p.m. p. I, or oh my God, between 8 and 11 p.m. each night was Taco Bell. It's just crazy that while I was learning to be a good citizen in theory, I was also learning to eat myself into poor health and an early death, right? It's like, how could we change things by funding school lunches would be a good start more than we currently do and by demanding our kids be fed quality ingredients and not just, you know, give out the contract to like the lowest

bidder. Where can we get the money to do that? I don't know, from the military industrial complex. We can stop subsidizing other nations wars, take care of our kids in ways to lower later health costs. But I guess that wouldn't put enough, you know, extra cash into enough billionaires' pockets right away. And finally from Brian Stewart, subject line of Slacker Gen Xer finally gets a laptop and has spent a lot of time with a time suck serial killer. Greetings to you, Dan, Brian writes, you glorious meat sack and all the other nonsense, and the rest of the bad magic family.

I've been meeting to draft this email to you ever since episode 301 about the DC snipers. Seen as we are now about 200 episodes later, you may shrug me off as a slacking little bad boy that can go peeping a potty. But no, it's actually because I finally broke down and bought a laptop. I no longer would need to write this on a phone.

So for that, I'm sorry for the delay, but I think it's worth it. And because I go all the way back to the Spokane Man days of your college career, maybe you'll grant me a reprieve. Yes, we were classmates at you. Oh, I remember. And when I ran into you at a small show, a few years after college, I knew later I'd be able to say, I knew you win. That's nice.

And now I've made my entire family familiar with and fans of your work. But nostalgia is not the reason I'm writing today. It's because when I was fresh out of Gonzaga, I worked at a juvenile detention facility in the area. Our facility had a contract with immigration at the time, and we had a juvenile in our custody named Lee that was from Jamaica. He was in our facility for about eight months, I believe, and I was his case manager. He's about 16 at the time, nicest kid around. Extremely social, smart, and athletic. He quickly gained responsibility, excuse me, and privileges

just as he should. Despite being in a juvenile detention center, I would think of him as any good high school kid. He eventually left our facility, went to live with relatives. I wished him the best of luck, felt like he had a promising future. Well, fast forward, maybe six months later, I hear on the national news that they have caught the two assassins that have been terrorized in the Washington, D.C. area. One of the names catches my attention, Lee Malvo. I thought to myself, nah, couldn't be the same person as a kid from Jamaica who was so well-behaved in our detention, way over here on the West Coast. Has to be a coincidence. But when I got to the facility that day for work, saw all the news station trucks out front, I knew it was the same kid. So yeah, I worked with

the DC sniper for eight months on a daily basis, and it never in a million years would cross my mind that he could have been part of a duo that shot and killed about a dozen people in the DC area. The news stories talked about how Lee was brainwashed by his uncle to do those heinous crimes, but you know what, I don't really buy it. Oh, what I would give to have had a half hour just to interview him in light of what I thought I knew about him. So yeah, that's my story of working pretty closely with the DC sniper. I was surprised at the time-sick episode didn't cover his time in Washington and kept waiting to hear mention of it, but I thought it was worth sharing. I'm sorry that this email may not have been very long or had much girth to it,

like most updates, but I'm pretty used to apologizing for that shortcoming anyway. Keep up the good work, Dan, from your faithful follower and fellow Gonzaga psych major, Brian Stewart. Oh man, Brian, amazing update. And it's good to hear from you. Man, studying Syke back at GE. Those were some great days. What a fun little bubble we lived in, right? I wouldn't trade it for the world. Great to hear from you. That's crazy. That's a crazy. update. Can't imagine working so closely with somebody and then having them do that. I hope we cross past again, man.

I hope you've gotten better at mind reading and can identify future serial killers now, okay? Bulldogs and Spokane Man forever. That song is stuck in my head now, actually. Spokane Man. See you down the road, Brian. Never forget the day's in Madonna House and Kegers on

Sinto and Indiana. Thanks, everybody. Well, thank you for listening to another bad magic productions podcast. Be sure in rate and review time suck if you haven't already done so. Please don't kill anybody. And then drill a hole in their skull and then jerk off into that hole and try to bring them back to life this week. However, if they're already dead and it wasn't your fault, I don't know.

What could have harm? Maybe you'll pull it off. And it'll be the coolest and grossest moment in history. Keep on sucking. Magic Productions. And now for a little excerpt from an old Quebec news show called The Right Time where amputation survivor Gabriel Lavalais was interviewed. The original area of this interview is not listed.

You won't hear her actual voice because she spoke in French, but it was dubbed over in English so we can understand it. She looks fantastic in this video, by the way, incredible considering what she had went through, as we heard. And so now to finish out some more crazy cult talk, straight from a survivor of one of the Antio kids. Were there also visions of homosexuality in Roy Okt, Nishina? Did he have relationships with men? That's a subject I can't discuss.

I can't discuss it at the moment because it's a matter of. These things are currently under surveillance. Yes, I can't mention anything because let's... Let's say he had a friend. frenzy, sexuality. Yeah. So that could very well be it. There was no sexual morality in his mind and everything was permitted.

Hmm. Are we talking about group love as well as an orgeastic dimension? No, there never was. In one sense, it depends on what we mean by org. Obviously multiple exchanges with several women. With him... Yes, there was that. He had that dimension.

Yes. It's a creepy dubbing, but it feels on brand. And now let's talk about your own journey, Mrs. Lovelace, when you came to understand that someone wanted to harm your physical integrity. After that, what did this arm amputation look like? Well, to get to this point, to this amputation as such, there had already been a lot of physical harm to my person. So it was, in fact, the culmination, if you like, He happened to me at this culmination, but over the years I had undergone multiple services.

How is it possible, madam? Excuse me, if I don't understand, but that the amputation of an arm was the trigger for you to give up on it when you had been assaulted, beaten, shaved, which is also a major humiliation. We understand that getting a bro is dramatic. But when did you give up? You didn't give up before that. On several occasions, I wanted to give up, especially. in the last two years.

For me, I found that this philosophy was too contradictory. That presented no logic, no reasonable understanding. But on the other hand, I was completely destroyed. I had difficulty bringing me a healthy reflection. I no longer had the ability to cabby. Share what was good or bad? To reason to be. in an orderly way.

So I was completely destroyed. It took hold. As I told you, it happens gradually little by little. Gradually little by little. Yeah, she goes on to talk about how like her interior life had been so destroyed. Like she was just so numb and deadened by all the manipulation and humiliation she'd endured over the years that her internal pain was worse than any external pain she could ever feel. and it basically like even while she's getting her fucking arm whittled off,

it's like she was just numb, just like numb as a human being. But then like finally, I guess, you know, when she's on the edge of death, she's like she just decided to fucking go try and live again. Yeah, again, terrible translation, but like it was the only one I could find where it's been dubbed into English. And actually, a little bit of good news, actually really good news, with her at the end. I did hear a rumor.

I can't confirm it, but that in the last, last few years, she was able to regrow her arm thanks to Thrive, DFT, arm regrow patches. If you're not thriving, you're dying! I'm an idiot.