Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 519 - Death Before Divorce: The Kouri Richins Case

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

When Utah realtor and children's author Kouri Richins reported her husband dead after what appeared to be a tragic medical emergency, investigators eventually uncovered allegations of a massive amount... of secret debt, an affair, financial deception, a fatal dose of fentanyl and more. This week we look into the investigation and trial of one of America's most shocking recent murder cases—and explore how the person you trust most can sometimes be the one you should fear most. Merch and more: www.badmagicproductions.com  Timesuck Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious PrivateFacebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :) For all merch-related questions/problems: store@badmagicproductions.com (copy and paste) Please rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna become a Space Lizard? Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast. Sign up through Patreon, and for $5 a month, you get access to the entire Secret Suck catalog (295 episodes) PLUS the entire catalog of Timesuck, AD FREE. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 In February of 2026, weeks before Corey Richon's trial began, the Department of Homeland Security's countering weapons of mass destruction office, the division tasked with protecting America from chemical, biological, and nuclear threats, issued an intelligence bulletin to law enforcement agencies across the country, warning that domestic partners are using chemical and biological toxins to kill their spouses, and that the problem was almost certainly much larger than the documented cases suggest. Between 2014 and 2025, the DHS documented 17 such cases with at least 11 deaths. More than half of those cases occurred in the last five years of that window.
Starting point is 00:00:40 The substances being used range from antifreeze to eyedrops, insulin to cyanide, and veterinary barbiturates to fentanyl. These substances were chosen. The bulletin noted for their ability to mimic natural illnesses and complicate detection. These cases are hard to prosecute for the same reason they are easy to commit. today's subject, Corey Richens, would be caught, but the bulletin's central concern was, how many others are not? The fear is that this method of murder
Starting point is 00:01:10 might be far, far more common than anyone realizes. So, how much do you trust your partner? Enough to accept any meal made by them to be toxin-free, or at least free from any toxins that they have added? When you're not feeling well, when you're surprised that you're sick again and still fighting some mysterious, lingering illness, once again dealing with some confusing digestive issues.
Starting point is 00:01:34 Does it ever cross your mind that the person behind your illness might be the same person you have trusted to have your back and take care of you more than anyone else in this world? The 2022 murder of Eric Richens, a murder that received widespread national and international media attention due to the circumstances surrounding the killing and the subsequent publication of the children's grief book, Are You With Me? Authored by his now convicted killer on this week's How well do you know the person you sleep next to at night edition of TimeSuck? This is Michael McDonald, and you're listening to TimeSuck. You're listening to TimeSuck.
Starting point is 00:02:19 Happy Monday, and welcome or welcome back to the Colt to the Curious. I'm Dan Kulman, the Suckmaster guy who is very aware of the risks of fast food and processed food, ultra-processed food, but still sometimes really, really craves Taco Bell's Mexican pizza. And Kraft Mac and Cheese with slice up hot dogs in it. and a box of a half a dozen, Franz, old-fashioned donuts, oh, so many chemicals, plus so much sugar,
Starting point is 00:02:45 equals so much joy. You are not listening to a podcast right now that just goes over delicious but shitty comfort food. You are listening to Time Suck, okay? Hail Nimrod, hail Lusufina, praise be to good boy Bojangles,
Starting point is 00:02:59 and Glory B to Triple M, okay? Let's get started, okay? Okay, let's talk about something absolutely tragic and be glad it's not up. us, okay? Let's laugh. It's our way to cope with and downplay, the darkness that is never far away, okay, okay? Okay? Okay? I'm not going to say okay all the time today, okay? On the morning of March 4th, 2022, in a beautiful home in the little town of Francis, Utah, a 39-year-old man named Eric Richens, was found cold and unresponsive in his bed. He was a rancher, a stone mason, a father of three
Starting point is 00:03:35 young boys, and by all accounts, one of the most energetic, hardworking men anyone who knew him had ever met. The last thing Eric did before going to bed was celebrate. His wife Corey, a realtor and owner of the brokerage, Kay Richens Realty, had just closed on the sale of a new property, her biggest yet. And they were toast to that. But then hours later, she was calling 911. First responders initially suspected a brain aneurysm, and that was what she would repeat. Before I go further, closed on the purchase. I probably wrote that down wrong. She purchased a new property to flip to be accurate. But first responders initially suspected a brain aneurysm,
Starting point is 00:04:16 and that is what she would repeat, what she would say to investigators, her house cleaner, family, friends, and other associates. She said there was no other logical explanation for how Eric died. A blood vessel in his brain must have ruptured. He just died in his sleep, right? So sad, brain aneurysms can affect anyone.
Starting point is 00:04:30 Of any age, there can be no warning. You can go to bed young and healthy and never wake up. A lot of you listening will probably have a brain aneurysms and die in the next, uh, 15, you know, 20 minutes. I don't, I don't think you'll make it a lot of you to the end of the episode, you know, just statistically. Most people get brain aneurysms, uh, from, from wearing headphones.
Starting point is 00:04:54 They take out five, uh, five to 10 million otherwise healthy Americans every single week. It is the leading cause of death in the lie that I've just shared. But for real, they can't affect anyone. Uh, you can be healthy. You can have one. Eric was healthy. He'd had COVID, not long. long before, but so had damn near everybody back then.
Starting point is 00:05:12 He'd had Lyme disease as well, but he'd recovered. Years of physical work had certainly taken a toll on his back, but that doesn't kill you like it killed him. A lot of people lived very long lives with very bad backs. Overall, Eric was very fit, very healthy, full of life, but now he was dead. How? Sometimes shit just happens. It can happen to the best of us, and because of that, no unsuspected foul play not right
Starting point is 00:05:39 away, not in the minutes after this. And why would they? Eric and his wife, his self-made real estate entrepreneur, appeared to be wildly successful. And again, from the outside, you know, it's the best their marriage had ever been, according to some friends. But within hours of Eric's death, Eric's two sisters started to get pretty suspicious of Corey. She was acting so strange, so focused, not on grief, but on money, Eric's money, and her business dealings. And they'd had concerns about her for years. And then when the toxicology results came back, showing a lethal dose of fentanyl, five times a lethal dose were in Eric's system, his sisters were convinced that that was how she had killed him.
Starting point is 00:06:19 But most people still weren't. His death was still not being investigated by the police as a homicide. Corey was doing a great job in most people's eyes of playing the victim. She seemed the most shocked of out of anybody. How could this happen? You know, she openly wondered. She told everybody who would listen that he didn't do drugs, that he didn't even smoke, that he was the healthiest man she'd ever known.
Starting point is 00:06:39 But she wondered, did he have secrets? Did he have some secret addiction that she just didn't know about? You know, people have those. A private investigator hired by one of Eric's sisters also had questions. And when they looked into the private details of the couple's relationship, those questions became concerns. Concerns about a lot of debt. Concerned about a secret affair Corey had with a living handyman.
Starting point is 00:07:01 Robert Josh Grossman. Concerns about the Richens House cleaner, Carbin Lobber, Carmen, excuse me, Lobber, who maybe had sold pills to Corey. These concerns would be shared with detectives who would soon add more to the list, such as concerns about a series of deleted internet searches that included what is a lethal dose of fentanyl recovered by forensic software. Who was the lady, really, who had just written a children's book about dealing with grief, published a year after her husband had died?
Starting point is 00:07:28 Was she a grieving widow? Or a manipulative, secretive, and murderous black widow? Let's jump into today's timeline, find out, okay? And learn how Corey Richens, okay, went from the woman who seemed to have it all, okay, to a woman who will almost certainly spend the rest of her probably very long life behind bars. Okay? I want to jump to this timeline, okay? Let's do it.
Starting point is 00:07:50 Okay. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time-sunk timeline. Corey Darden was born April 20th, 19th. 1990 in Lotton, Oklahoma, small city in southwest Oklahoma with a little over 90,000 people as the 2020 census and around 131,000 in the metro area at that time. She was probably born there. Public details regarding her birth date and birthplace, pretty light. A lot of sources say she was born in Oklahoma in 1990, a few, and honestly, they're a bit tabloid-y, give an exact date in town. The ones that do get specific all seem to say April 20th and Lawton.
Starting point is 00:08:33 Much of what we know about her childhood comes from a single document. written by Corey during a February, February, 2021 retreat at the Sedona Mago Center for Well-Bean in Sedona, Arizona. Oh, Sedona. If Sedona is not the world capital for white women of means who like to go on yoga retreats and talk about things like star seeds and the divine feminine, it's got to be close, right? Sedona is like if Madam Helena Blavatsky fucked a Lulu lemon and made a town.
Starting point is 00:09:03 Beautiful. But maybe tone it down just a notch or two, Sedona. Corey attended the retreat with one of her best friends, Ali, staking. Yeah, staking as part of that retreat, attendees were given an assignment to write their live story in the third person. Of course they were. Probably directly following a sound bath and a tarot card reading. And I don't even hate all that stuff, by the way. It's just overly commercialized, condensed in Sedona, from what I have observed.
Starting point is 00:09:30 Okay. Here's what Corey wrote about her childhood, that her father was an engineer, a successful one, and her mother Lisa Darden worked for the same company, and that meant as a child, Corey and her family moved around a lot. 17 different states over the course of her childhood. And most of that moving around happened in a very short few years
Starting point is 00:09:49 with the family pack it up and starting over every time her dad's work demanded it. And that is what she claimed. I don't fucking buy that for a second. I think at the very least she has heavily exaggerated this, if not just flat out lied there. Engineers don't actually tend to move around nearly that much for their jobs.
Starting point is 00:10:04 not any engineer I've fucking ever known but that's what this convicted liar has claimed okay oh and me saying okay is a nod to a recent episode if you're just like did he break did something break with him this week what's going on okay Corey also claims something happened in 1996 when she was just five or six
Starting point is 00:10:21 that changed all the moving around apparently yeah those 17 states she lived in most of that happened before the age of six get the fuck out of here Corey was still just a little kid in 1996 when her father allegedly got behind the wheel after drinking heavily, passed out, and then hit a police officer who had pulled over on the side of the road. Not sure how badly he was hurt. Her dad supposedly was arrested, then went to prison for the next six and a half years.
Starting point is 00:10:45 Not sure if he kept in touch with Corey after that, online speculation is that he may have died to something related to alcoholism, but I can't confirm that with any public records. Whatever happened, he seems to have disappeared from Corey's life. And while he was in prison, two years later in 1998, Corey's mother, Lisa, filed for divorce. once the divorce was settled she packed up her kids including Corey and her brother's DJ and Ronnie Lisa and then she wanted to be closer to her sister out in Utah sounds like they were
Starting point is 00:11:13 there were a few step siblings that moved with them as well including Corey's step sister Renee again not a lot of good source information on all of this but as a single mom Lisa was reportedly hardly ever home working long hours hard hours the responsibility of raising Corey and her brothers fell largely
Starting point is 00:11:29 to Renee Corey wrote to Renee helped looking after them until she, Renee, turned 18, and she packed up her shit and left. Turns out Renee was feeling bitter about having to do all the child rearing, which is fair. She resented Corey and her brothers for having to look after them and to give up on her own childhood. And sometime after she left Renee dropped all contact with her siblings, according again to Corey. If true, that sucks. Sounds like Renee had the right to be angry, but maybe took her anger out on the wrong people. Not the kid's fault, but the dad ended up in prison and mom had to work all the time.
Starting point is 00:12:01 to keep food on the table, lights on, roof over everyone's heads. Shitty situation for all. At least, this is how it looked at first glance, but was mom really working all the time? Is that the real reason Renee was watching the kids? Doesn't seem to be. Seems like mom was blowing a lot of their family's money at the casino and neglecting her kids
Starting point is 00:12:19 and adding unnecessary financial problems to her life at the same time. Corey claimed Lisa was a compulsive gambler and that much of her childhood was spent at weekends in casino hotel rooms sitting around worried about money that her mom was going to lose, you know. Again, if true, no wonder Renee wanted to get the fuck away from her. Jumping a decade ahead now. Now we have better sources for a lot of this.
Starting point is 00:12:43 In 2006, when Corey was around 16, likely still living at home, I assume her mom, Lisa's romantic partner, died unexpectedly. This woman is not named in news sources, just referenced, but the cause of her death was ruled a drug poisoning, specifically an overdose of oxycodone. The deceased woman did have prescriptions for oxycodone. It was reportedly struggling with abusing her medication,
Starting point is 00:13:05 so the whole thing was treated as a tragic but not uncommon case amidst a nationwide opioid epidemic and the case was closed and stayed closed for many years. But then, Summit County Sheriff's Office Detective, Jeff O'Driscoll, and this did happen in Summit County. The lead detective in the Corey Richens case decided to take another look, and he found that Lisa Darden had been named the beneficiary of her partner's estate very shortly before she died. Not a total cause of concern on its own.
Starting point is 00:13:34 People do name their partners as beneficiaries all the time. But in light of what he was investigating regarding Corey, you know, looks shady as hell. Did Lisa kill her partner and then years later help her daughter kill her husband in the same way? Did she tell her daughter something along lines of, well, if you want to get rid of somebody, make a bunch of money in the process? I mean, you know what worked for me, right? You remember how I did it? despite having prescriptions for oxycodone and a history of medication abuse, this unnamed partner was not in recovery at the time they died. She, however, was not an estate of recovery from addiction at the time of her death.
Starting point is 00:14:10 The detective wrote, based on my training experience, this would likely rule out the possibility of an accidental overdose. Basically, he figured that if she was using regularly, she had built her tolerance back up, she knew how much she could handle in all likelihood. And that now led investigators to suspect foul play rather than accidental. overdose. Detective O'Driscoll also wrote, Based on Lisa Darden's proximity to her partner's suspicious overdose death and her relationship with Corey,
Starting point is 00:14:38 it is possible she was involved in planning and orchestrating Eric's death. Lisa still not charged with anything as of this recording as far as I can tell. I tried a variety of searches to figure that out. Who knows what might be coming down the pipe, though?
Starting point is 00:14:53 Corey's then attorney, Sky Lazzaro, called this a baseless conspiracy, theory and said Lisa's partner was simply one of the millions who have suffered from and ultimately succumb to opioid addiction. Also around 2006, Corey was going to Wasatch High School while living in Heber City, Utah. Heber City, less than an hour's drive southeast to downtown Salt Lake City when there's no traffic. More of a town than a city, which is under 17,000 people there as of the 2020 census, heavily LDS. Unsurprisingly, about 70% of the people there are. but Corey grew up in a non-LDS household
Starting point is 00:15:28 according to several sources despite all the movement around Corey mentioned in her third person bio most of her childhood the formative years were spent in Hebrew City while she was in high school there Corey made two friends
Starting point is 00:15:40 who'd end up being two of the most important people in her life Ali Staking and Chelsea Barney Alice went with Corey to that Saddow or Ali excuse me just fucking threw Alice in there and there's another person Alice don't even worry about her
Starting point is 00:15:52 Ali went with Corey to that Sedona treat retreat, I mentioned earlier. I'm still figuring out how to speak. These three women will stay close through marriages, through kids, and it sounds like they stood by her even after Corey's arrest, truly not believing she was capable of anything like murder. I don't know that they're friends with her today.
Starting point is 00:16:10 I don't think so. At least not Allie, based on her demeanor at Corey's trial and a few things she said. Around the time she graduated high school, Corey will say that her first taste of real money came from cleaning people's homes who had money, right? Big nice homes, big, expensive homes. Corey said she got a job cleaning houses for wealthy people in Park City, less than 20 miles north of Hebrew City. And she told herself, one day, I'm going to own one of these houses. Uh, uh, uh, this kind of shit does tend to make me a bit nervous certain people.
Starting point is 00:16:41 I mean, there's nothing wrong with one in a nice house. Nothing wrong with wanting to have a lot of money. But sometimes when I come across somebody who, it's like their driving desire is just to be rich in this kind of, almost like an abstract sense. Rather than say, like, have a strong desire to be a certain. because they want to help people live or feel better while also getting rich or they want to be a financial advisor because, you know, they're good with numbers and they like to work with money and they can be a fucking hedge fund manager or whatever. They have a talent for it and they want to build others' wealth while also getting rich. When it's not something specific like that, like, oh, this is this passion of mine could
Starting point is 00:17:12 also get me rich. It is a bit of a red flag for me. Not always a big deal, not even usually a big deal, probably, but when someone's primary motivation in life just becomes, again, there's like this vague desire to just be rich. One of my first internal questions is, what are you willing to do to get rich? How far will your moral compass bend? I tend to think probably quite a bit in that scenario. And also, why do you need that?
Starting point is 00:17:35 Why do you feel like you need that? Like, what hole do you think a big house in Park City will fill inside of you? How important is status to you? How important is it to keep up with and impress the Joneses? You know, because chasing status, I just think a lot of people do a lot of dumb shit for that.
Starting point is 00:17:49 And in my observation, it tends to not make them happier actually. They seem to get more miserable. Seems like a hollow vapid dream. Anyway, 2009, the year after Corey graduated from high school, she was working at a Home Depot in Park City, Utah, paid better than other stuff she was doing like cleaning houses. Maybe she was there because you wanted to meet people to, meet a certain kind of guy, I think. Some sources say she was already going to Weber State University in Ogden, Utah, but that is not what she wrote on her LinkedIn profile. I don't think she was going to school at this time.
Starting point is 00:18:20 I think she was just, honestly, I think she was looking for a husband with money. According to the best news sources, I could find Corey got a job working at Home Depot as a cashier at the contractor checkout. All the tradesmen, carpenters would come to check out their orders where a lot of big general contractors making a lot of big general contractor money building those big-ass Park City homes were coming through. I don't think she took this job by accident at all. And I'm not even mad, you know, at people if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, that's the truth in some of these situations, right? Not necessarily the best indicator of character, though. You can speak to, you know, a deep-rooted desire again, just to be rich.
Starting point is 00:18:59 I'm going to pick somebody to get rich. Linda King, who worked alongside her later described her as a gorgeous and sweet co-worker. According to Linda, Corey was the kind of girl that all the contractors were crushing on, right? She was flirty. One customer was crushing extra hard on her. A customer she flirted back with 27-year-old Eric Richens. He was a regular Home Depot. He was working as a Stone Mason.
Starting point is 00:19:20 He was becoming a lot more of a regular after he met Corey, floored with the 19-year-old for a while before he finally worked up the courage to ask her out, asked for a number, she happily gave it to him. According to Linda, all the Home Depot co-workers thought it was the sweetest thing, and from that point on, Corey and Eric were inseparable. Linda also described Eric as having an unforgettable laugh. She said she would try to say funny things just so she could hear it.
Starting point is 00:19:42 She said he was the kind of guy who would wait an hour in the contractor line, while everybody else was bitching, impatient, complaining about the wait. he would laugh it off and chat with people waiting around. Just kind of an affable laid-back dude. So now that we've been introduced to Eric Richens, let's get to know him before moving forward in the timeline. Eric Eugene Richens was born May 13th, 1982, to Eugene and Linda Richens in Bountiful, Utah.
Starting point is 00:20:13 Bountiful is a city named after the devil. The great deceiver of many names, Saint Lucifer Beelspub, the great serpent. with seven heads and ten horns. Bountiful. Bountiful is a town that was never founded. It was conjured in 1666. Bountiful rose straight up from hell
Starting point is 00:20:36 after being conjured by six necromances. And then six legions of demons, weighted centuries. Six, well, that isn't math to them. Anyway, six for six families to set hoof to soil with six horses. Okay? And now six dairy queens.
Starting point is 00:20:52 sit atop Bountable six most important intersections. Okay? Each staff by six horny teenagers trying to provo float six dicks. Okay? Into six virgins front butts. Okay? Well, six teams of six perverts bouts of six mattresses six times for six premature inculcations. Okay?
Starting point is 00:21:12 Uh, or instead of all that, fucking nonsense. Bountiful is a city whose name is derived from its reputation as a great place for gardening. So I was kind of close. You know, Satan, guardian. And because Bountiful is the name of a city in the Book of Mormon, or Jesus Christ, for sure, 100% definitely appeared to the Nephites. Bountiful is actually Utah's second settlement, first Salt Lake City, then Bountiful, just 12 miles north. The Latter-day Saints began to settle Salt Lake City in July of 1847. Bountiful settled just two months later in September by Mormon pioneer Peregrine Sessions.
Starting point is 00:21:46 God, it's such a common name. If I had a fucking nickel, for every time I heard about a new Peregrine Sessions, I'd have a nickel. In the early years, Peregrine pretty much took it upon himself to be the only man needed to help populate Bountiful. Dude had eight wives and fathered 55 children. That dirty, dingled mother trucker, gosh, damn, my heck, he was busy, all right? For decades, Bountiful was a sleepy farming community full of more than the average number of cousin fuckers, thanks to so many people having the same daddy and then grandpappy.
Starting point is 00:22:16 By the 1950s, its proximity to Salt Lake City made it a suburban destination for professionals, doctors, lawyers, educators, commuting into the city. Still a very LDS-centric place, and the Richens were Mormon. Eric grew up in a close-knit, financially comfortable LDS family in a town of about 33,000 at that time. Eugene, Eric's father owned a cattle ranch, 44 miles away up in Hennifer, about a 40-minute drive, excuse me, from where Eric would eventually settle and raise his own family. On the stand, Eugene painted a picture of the family grew up in. Family came first in the Richens' household.
Starting point is 00:22:51 they did everything together. Education was non-negotiable, hard work was expected, and their faith was the backbone of all of it. Eric was the eldest of three. He took being a big brother very seriously, really looked out for his two younger sisters. Katie and Amy, the three siblings very close. Growing up, Eric, who at some point became known to friends and family as Rico,
Starting point is 00:23:11 spent countless hours in the family ranch, haul and hay, feeding animals and mending fences, like literally mending actual fences, not just apologizing in some kind of country song sort of way. Not sure where Rico comes from Maybe from Uncle Rico From Napoleon Dynamite I fucking hope so
Starting point is 00:23:26 Such a good character And such a good movie Back in 82 I used to be able to throw A pigskin quarter mile Are you serious? I'm dead serious Are you serious?
Starting point is 00:23:39 Rico went I'd never get tired of clips That movie Rico went to Woods Cross high school Just south of Bountiful In Woods Cross Utah Where he was a serious athlete participating, sometimes excelling in, cross-country, basketball, baseball, and soccer.
Starting point is 00:23:53 Woods Cross named after Daniel Wood, another old Perf, an early LDS pioneer. Mr. Wood aptly named had 10 wives. Some sources say 11, 32 kids. So glory be to Gilead. Okay. After high school, Rico went to the University of Utah where he graduated with a degree in international studies with a minor in Spanish. Spanish would come in handy as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Rico served a two-year mission in Mexico City where he became truly fluent in Spanish. When he got back, the young industrious guy took up work as a hot tender, tough-ass job, very physically demanding high-demand construction job that involves supporting bricklayers and stone masons out on job sites. Working with heavy material in the hot summer, not for the faint of heart. He worked there with his high school buddy, Cody, who showed him the ropes, and they kind of moved up in the fucking stone mason hierarchy.
Starting point is 00:24:47 Cody and Eric bonded over amongst other things hunting. They were too hardworking, easygoing guys who loved the outdoors. According to Cody, we became good friends through the hunting world. He was a rancher. I liked hard work. He loved hard work. In 2010, Rico and Cody decided not to just work together, but to truly go into business together. They started the Stone Masonry Company, C and E Stone Masonry, E for Eric, C for Cody, as I'm sure many of you have already assumed.
Starting point is 00:25:12 And they specialize in high-end paving stone and tile work, working largely on big expensive, custom. homes across central and northern Utah. Cody handled the tile side, most of the paperwork. Eric, probably easier just refer to him, Eric, since that's the name used for him in court transcripts and most sources. He handled the stonework. They were 50-50 partners. Cody described Eric as feisty and hardworking, said he could be the life of the party,
Starting point is 00:25:36 and the kind of guy who could make you feel great, but also tell you exactly what you did wrong and made sure you knew it so you'd correct your behavior and improve, right? A straight shooter. Eric, like Corey, ambitious. serious about business, serious about growing the business, making a bunch of money. He had seen how hard work can pay off with his parents and he wanted to replicate much of what they had done, you know, for himself.
Starting point is 00:25:58 And now we've caught up on our timeline to an Eric and Corey met. Okay? They started dating and in 2011, Corey enrolled at Weaver State University working towards a Bachelor of Science and Healthcare Administration. Then in 2012, the couple moved into a big, beautiful home in the little town of Francis, Utah, 43 miles east of Salt Lake City,
Starting point is 00:26:17 just two miles from Camus. Media reports almost always say that this house is in Camus, which is not true. Fucking liars! Liars! I cast anathema upon you all. Almost true, though.
Starting point is 00:26:31 The zip coat is the same between the towns. They're practically touching. Francis and Camas, only about 15 miles from Heber City, where again, Corey grew up, 55 miles from Bountiful, where Eric grew up, so same general area.
Starting point is 00:26:43 House is a beauty, has an oversized three-car garage plus another detached garage, sits on a half-acre lot, it's on real estate sites right now for sale. That's five bedrooms, four bathrooms, over 4,200 square feet, was bought for around 400 grand back then, it seems, now on the market with an asking price of $1,295,000. Eric made the down payment as he was earning around a million dollars a year in revenue from his company back in 2012, and it just kept getting better. Dude was crushing it.
Starting point is 00:27:11 So now, Corey, living in the kind of house, you know, more or less. that she had dreamed of living back when she was cleaning those houses, just five or six years earlier. I mean, she wanted something bigger still, but this was very nice. She and Eric, they're in love. They're not just Provo Float, neither. No, surrey.
Starting point is 00:27:30 They're having regular sex, sin sex, Gentile sex, heathen humpin. And in 2012, Corby became pregnant with her first son Carter. Around that same time, Eric proposed. It doesn't seem that their pregnancy was planned at all. And less than a year later, on June 15th, 14th, 2013, Corey Darden, 23 years old, marries Eric Richens, 31 years old in the backyard of their home in Utah. And on the big day of their wedding, Corey got a little surprise that must have come as a big shock.
Starting point is 00:27:57 Did I mention that Eric had been married once before? I did not, but he was. He had married his first wife, Julie Dorgensen, back in 2005 when he was 23. She was a year and change younger. Julie had grown up in Idaho Falls in that area. Also had went to the University of Utah where she had met Eric, where she studied child. development, got married to Eric, and then graduated as a member of the Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority in 2006. While still in high school, not in high school, well in college.
Starting point is 00:28:26 She also started her career at McCann World Group, a Salt Lake City advertising agency, and then she quickly moved up to the latter to become a senior account executive. She was like him very athletic, active in soccer, dance, basketball, and skiing, both had a real passion for physical fitness and the outdoors. unfortunately the whirlwind college romance quickly fizzled and they were divorced just four years later in 2009. According to a lot of web speculation, it was a very messy divorce and allegedly Julie cheated on him.
Starting point is 00:28:56 To be clear, this is just internet gossip from places like Facebook and Reddit where a lot of people, both those who claim to have known some of the people involved and total strangers have weighed in heavily on all of this. And then Eric, at least according to his friends and family, got the short end of the stick financially when assets were divided between the two. One more thing about Julie. Just a few years after the divorce was finalized, Eric's ex-wife would tragically die in a horrific car crash.
Starting point is 00:29:22 While sitting in a red light, she was rearing to buy a pickup truck that crashed into her at approximately 70 miles an hour. The driver, high as fuck. It was a frosty January day. His windshield covered in frost. He had not bothered to wait for it to defrost before he sped off. He would go to prison. and despite Eric and Julie no longer being together at the time,
Starting point is 00:29:42 you know, this broke Eric's heart. Now, that last part does not factor into this story, Julie's death, but I felt weird not mentioning it, and I shared the messy divorce part because it supposedly led directly to what happened on Corey's wedding day. And before I share what the wedding day's surprise was, time for today's first to two mid-show sponsor breaks. If you don't want to hear these ads ever again,
Starting point is 00:30:03 please sign up to be a space lizard on Patreon. Help us make monthly charitable contributions, get the catalog ad-free, get episodes three days early, get your mom's phone number, and more. Now it's returned to Eric and Corey's wedding day and find out what that surprise was. Eric's mother, Linda, handed Corey a document,
Starting point is 00:30:23 a prenuptial agreement. And according to testimony from her trial, Corey did not know she was going to be forced to sign this pre-up until it was presented to her on her wedding day, approximately 10 minutes before she was set to walk down the aisle. And she said, Linda made it clear that the wedding would not take place unless she signed this document.
Starting point is 00:30:43 And if that is how it actually happened. And it seems like it might be. That's fucking crazy. Why would you wait until the wedding day to do that? That is cruel. And why? Again, if this is true. Why would Eric not do that himself?
Starting point is 00:30:57 Right? Why are you having your mom do that? That is a sneaky, kind of conniving way to do it. I just don't understand the actions. So many humans constantly. So now obviously, Corey was faced. with the choice of either signing this or being humiliated on her wedding day in front of friends and family and, excuse me, having a contentious relationship with the father of her child and his family.
Starting point is 00:31:18 The terms of the pre-up outlined that Eric would retain rights to his business, income, property, and other assets, meaning if Corey were to ever leave Eric, she would also be walking away from most of his money. There was, however, one exception. If Eric were to die, while the two were lawfully married, his 50% stake in his very profitable, becoming more profitable all the time, Stone Masonry business, Cini, would transfer over to Corey. Eric will secretly change this exception later, though. I will address that when it comes up in the timeline.
Starting point is 00:31:47 Before moving forward, once I got more familiar with this story, the pre-up did make more sense to me. I wonder if Eric's mom saw right through Corey, that if it wasn't necessarily about the first divorce and more about Corey. And I think maybe Eric had concerns too. Maybe if she hadn't gotten pregnant, they wouldn't have gotten married at all.
Starting point is 00:32:10 I don't know. Just speculating. Back to the June 15th, 2013 wedding date, Corey head over heels in love with Eric, signed the pre-nep, walked down the aisle, and Corey Darden became Corey Richens. If she had any massive resentment
Starting point is 00:32:22 over how that shit went down on her wedding date, she didn't show it, apparently. It seemed like their marriage to most outsiders was pretty fantastic. Over the next few years, their family would grow,
Starting point is 00:32:34 Corey would give birth to two more sons, Ashton and then Weston, They will raise their three boys in Francis, Utah, in that five-bedroom house on 282 Willow Court, I already mentioned, located in Summit County. Summit County seems like a very nice place to raise kids. It leads all Utah counties in percentage of residents with a college degree and has the highest median household income in the state. Notably, about one in three households in the county currently earn over $200,000 annually. Trees line a lot of the streets, shade most of the yards, the Uinta Mountains, rise to the north, rounded and pale and vast extending out into Colorado and Wyoming,
Starting point is 00:33:12 the medium home value, just over a million bucks. It's the wealthiest county in Utah boasts some of the highest life expectancy in the country at around 85 and a half years. Very low crime. By almost any measure you can think of, it's one of the best places in America to live. Located in Summit County is Park City, home to fame ski resorts, Deer Valley, and Park City Mountain. Sundance Film Festival found its home in Park City, 1985.
Starting point is 00:33:38 The twin communities of Camus and Francis. Camus has about 2,000 people. Francis has about 1,500. And again, their borders practically touched, separate by, it looks on the map like about 1,000 feet or less. Friendly, tightly connected to little communities. The area has long been known as the gateway to the Uintas. It is often used as a supply station for people passing through on their way to the Uinta Mountains.
Starting point is 00:34:00 Park City, just 20 miles away, land between these towns, dotted with multi-million dollar estates on huge chunks of land. A lot of the homes are second homes. owned by people who can afford to have a five, ten, even $20 million, you know, dollar plus second home, you know, to retreat to when they want to escape into the wilderness, get out of the city, but also still have a personal chef, prepare their meals, that kind of thing. So this is the world that Eric and Corey's son started to grow up in, one that must have seemed pretty ideal, surrounded by scenic, natural beauty, and affluence. Eric was a super-involved dad, coached to all their soccer, basketball, and baseball teams. As his father, Eugene said, Eric was their coach. father, but most important was their very, very best friend.
Starting point is 00:34:42 The Richen boys were and still are very close to Papa Eugene as well, their paternal grandfather, and their paternal aunties, Katie and Amy, spending lots of time at the Richens Ranch, learning to rope and riding around a four-wheelerers, that kind of thing. In addition to being an incredible present, hands-on dad, Eric was also a super successful businessman, as I mentioned. C&E Stone Masonry's business was steadily increasing, growing year after year employing close to 90 people by the early 20-20s. That's what the source said.
Starting point is 00:35:11 I don't know if that's like subcontractors who work for them sometimes or if they, you know, just typically were running enough job sites to keep 90 people or close to it like steadily employed. I mean, it sounds like a great area to be a gifted contractor
Starting point is 00:35:25 in the high-end construction game. The money was good, very good. Eric and Corey able to travel a lot. They were able to vacation in Costa Rica, Greece and Mexico. But Corey wanted more. Most who knew her said the or say the same thing about her
Starting point is 00:35:37 very, very ambitious, just a hustler through and through, always was. Not built to be a stay-at-home mom content with a million-dollar home. She always wanted more. According to Corey's mother, Lisa, Eric didn't want Corey to work. He wanted her to be a stay-at-home mom, and that wasn't going to happen. Eric, while most speculation seems to be that he wasn't that religious, was still raised Mormon, raised in a culture where most women run the home and the men provide, and by some accounts, that is what he wanted.
Starting point is 00:36:05 And so friction develops in their marriage. Which based on the pre-in-up, you know, I do understand. I do understand or I understand, you know, what Corey's desire to, like, want to go work and have that lead to friction. I do think it's pretty fucked up to have somebody sign a pre-up saying that you don't get any part of the business that I'm building, a business that you will be helping me build by raising my kids so I can continue to focus on work. But a business that if we get divorced, you're 100% cut out from. But also, I don't want you to ever establish your own business. I don't want you to work during our marriage and be able to, uh, you know, build up your own financial
Starting point is 00:36:39 situation so that if we part ways, you don't drown financially. You know, either be a team and work together for everything or agree that, yeah, uh, you're only truly partners where the kids are concerned. And outside of that, each person's going to work on their own shit, make their own money, have their own bank accounts, etc. Which, you know, it works for some people. In April of 2019, Corey started up on our own real estate company, Kay Richens Realty, a house flipping venture, started buying a house.
Starting point is 00:37:05 homes, fixing them up, flipping them. According to her friend and employee, Kay Richon's realty marketing director, Greg Hall, Corey loved flipping houses and was, quote, very successful at it. At the peak of her career, she was working on three houses at once. So how did she get the money to get that company off the ground?
Starting point is 00:37:21 More on that in a bit, okay? And hint, it's pretty shady. Okay? From the outside, the Richens truly look like they had it all back in 2019. Beautiful family, handsome and successful, contractor husband, beautiful and ambitious wife, Two young fit people with three healthy kids building the construction of real estate empire. And as they entered the 2020s, it seemed like things just continued to get better.
Starting point is 00:37:44 You know, just a, just a, oh my gosh, I got to, there's a button I have to hit. Things were moving on up. How did I almost forget this? Only one of my favorite songs ever. So it felt like life was like for them. Full fucking Jefferson's mode. Corey, you know, again, you're continuing to build her business into the 2020s, Eric continuing to build his.
Starting point is 00:38:11 But behind the scenes, things are fraying to the seams. One of those things is Eric's love for hunting, apparently. Eric could not get enough of hunting, but Corey was starting to get sick of it, starting to hate it. According to those who knew him, hunting was one of Eric's greatest passions in life, second only to his boys, which of truth says something, right? Three boys first, hunting to close second, wife, maybe a distant third. Eric would take off on big game hunting trips all across North America
Starting point is 00:38:36 hunting stuff like elk bear the pronghorn which for most of my life I thought was an antelope It's even called the pronghorn Pronghorn antelope a lot of the time No sir Resemble as an antelope
Starting point is 00:38:47 Actually its own thing Random fact Prong horns are much more closely related to giraffes than they are to either antelopes or deer If you remember one thing from this episode I want you to remember pronghorns
Starting point is 00:39:04 Anyway, according to Corey's brother Ronnie, Eric and his friends, Cote included, would disappear on hunting trips for weeks at a time. Then these trips were becoming more and more frequent, and it was starting to wear on Corey. She wanted her husband home, and his absence had become a real point of tension between them. In response, Corey poured herself further into work, but there was a problem with her business that Eric didn't know about. She'd secretly used his business to launch her business. Essentially, she had stolen from him. Corey would later complain to friends that Eric never believed in her, that he never gave her a chance.
Starting point is 00:39:37 But he did. He just, he didn't realize it. Back in early 2019, Corey had taken out a $250,000 home equity line of credit on their house, their house that Eric had purchased before they were married. And because of the pre-up agreement, it was not their house, it was his house.
Starting point is 00:39:53 Still, she had taken out a HELOC loan against it, a home equity line of credit, which meant she was borrowing against the value of their home, his home, the loan taken out in Eric's name, signed by Corey. She had used a fraudulent power of attorney powers she did not actually have and without his knowledge. Power of attorney is a legal document that allows you the principal to appoint someone else, the agent or the attorney in fact, to make decisions or take some legal actions on your behalf. It's risky.
Starting point is 00:40:22 I have done it though. As it became busier and busier creating content, it got harder and harder for me to be as involved as I had been before, managing financial decisions. So I did end up granting Lindsay power of attorney powers. Could she fuck me over with those powers? Yeah. Yeah. Theoretically, how do I feel okay about this?
Starting point is 00:40:42 I don't. Okay? Actually, I took care of it just yesterday. Well, it took care of itself. Took care of itself. That's what I meant to say. Just yesterday after reflecting on this decision. After I started to think about what a fool I've been,
Starting point is 00:40:54 I invited Lindsay to go on a little hike with me. It happened to be, you know, tapping to take place along the edge of it. a very crazy steep cliff, where the drop is, you know, straight down and, you know, it was like a 500 feet, and the rocks of the bottom are quite jagged. And we talked near the top, and then we argued,
Starting point is 00:41:10 and then she felt insulted that I decided to revoke her power of attorney, and then wouldn't you know it, she slipped. If she won't submit, she slips. Best marriage advice I've ever gotten from my dad. She actually more than slipped. She started to slip. And then when I reached for her trying to save her life, obviously, She was so mad at me that she jumped so I couldn't touch her,
Starting point is 00:41:33 which is why she landed at the bottom good, I don't know, 20 or so feet from the base of the cliff. And it's sad. And I've been super fucking sad about it, okay? Just this morning, I was talking to my new girlfriend about it right after she moved in. We met last night. And I asked her if I should still record this podcast so soon after Lindsay's passing. And she told me that I should. And she promised to check in with me and see how I was holding up after she was done with classes for today.
Starting point is 00:41:58 she's a freshman in college totally legal fully above board if she won't submit she slips but for real now that was absurd and i can't wait for it to get back to lindsay and i hope you don't hear this chair starting to fucking squeak all the sudden today uh lindsay does have power of attorney but we both meet regularly with our bookkeeper you know financial advisor i'm well aware of what assets and debts are in my name thanks to check in my credit report you know other financial info on a monthly basis i do trust her but i don't trust anyone blindly enough to never check on them it doesn't seem eric did this for quite some time. For over a year, he had no fucking idea that his wife had used
Starting point is 00:42:32 swindled money to fund the early operations of a real estate building, things like startup costs and initial renovations. He didn't know that if she didn't pay the secret loan back, she could have lost his house. Before we continue, let's rewind now to that pre-up. The state that everything would go to Corey if Eric died. Well, not
Starting point is 00:42:50 anymore, not quite. Back in 2018, before Corey took out that secret HELOC loan, Eric and his business partner, Cody Wright, set up what is called he buy sell agreement for C and E stone masonry. As 50-50 partners, Eric and Cody wanted a way to look out for their family should something happen to either of them. So they took out a mutual life insurance policies.
Starting point is 00:43:09 They took out, you know, policies on each other for $2 million each. If one partner were to die, the surviving partner would receive the life insurance payout and use that money to buy out the deceased partner share from the estate. Very smart. The family being bought out gets a ton of cash to live on. The surviving partner gets full ownership of the business and everybody gets taken care. of. Pretty common setup for 50-50 business partners. Eric didn't know yet that he was going to need that. And then in October of 2020, he found out what Corey had done regarding that HELOC. And he was not fucking happy. Can you imagine?
Starting point is 00:43:44 Eric felt this was the ultimate betrayal. And he wasn't wrong. He was furious about Corey's lack of communication and rightfully so because her actions meant their family home in Francis now on the line if she can't pay off that credit. financial infidelity, so terrible, worse for a lot of people than sexual infidelity. When Eric confronted her, Corey promised him she was going to pay it back. Eric, though, not confident that she would be able to. Doesn't trust her, obviously. Whether he believed her or not, right, the damage is already done.
Starting point is 00:44:10 So now he has to take steps to protect himself and his kids. And on October 13th, 2020, just days after he discovered that he lock, Eric picked up the phone, called an estate planning lawyer, told them that he needed their help to protect himself from to quote the legal documents, recently discovered an ongoing abuse and misuse of finances by his wife. He wanted to make sure that no matter what happened to him,
Starting point is 00:44:31 Corey would never ever be in a position to control his assets or his children's futures. And now Eric will place a big financial secret of his own inside the marriage. In early November, so just shortly after this, he sets up the Eric Richens Trust and he transfers all of his assets into this trust and that appoints his sister Katie as the trustee. then he removes Corey as the beneficiary of his life insurance entirely. Does all of this behind Corey's back. Then he meets with a divorce lawyer,
Starting point is 00:45:02 but decides not to take things further because of three and only three reasons. And they were all under the age of 10, his boys. According to Greg Scortis, the Richens family spokesperson following Eric's death, Eric would have done whatever it took to make the marriage work for the sake of his boys. before the end of 2020 towards that and he and Corey started to undergo marriage counseling and after a while their friends and employees started to notice a shift
Starting point is 00:45:27 things seemed better between them the tension in their marriage started to lift at least on the surface but did it really? Ah, not necessarily while Eric may have been trying to save his marriage for the kids genuinely, Corey started to make plans for a new life for herself with somebody else
Starting point is 00:45:43 this is all the fucking facade with her she started flirting with the guy named Robert Grossman who goes by Josh. Corey and Josh had met for the first time the previous year in 2019, it seems, when Josh answered a help wanted ad for one of her house flipping projects all the way out in South Carolina.
Starting point is 00:45:57 Some sources make it sound like she was trying to flip houses in South Carolina. I don't think that's the case. It's not entirely clear. I think they came across each other online while he was living in South Carolina and she wanted him to move to Utah
Starting point is 00:46:10 to work with her and more. Do some construction on her houses and also put in some manual labor on her pussy. Check it out. See if anything needs to be leveled, demoed, rebuilt. Give her a nice makeover. They may have met even earlier. Some sources say they met as early as 2017 through Corey's house flipping venture, but I don't know how that could be if she didn't start her house flipping company until early 2019. Regardless, they know each other now. Josh was a handyman. He moved to Utah in 2020, started living in one of the properties. Corey was renovated in Heber City where she grew up. Just down the road from where she lived now and the two arranged a sort of living. in deal. Josh would work on the house in exchange for free rent and occasional cash whenever Corey could manage it. There was no salary, no regular wage, just a loose promise that she would
Starting point is 00:46:58 pay him when she could. And he was fine with that because as he testified on the stand, he loved her and thought she loved him. And also, come on, because they were definitely already fucking. Get out of. Come on. They had to have already been fucking. By December of 2021, to the outside eye, Kay Richens Realty looked like it was thriving. And now Corey decided to go bigger than she'd ever gone before on a potential flip. For years, locals driving through the little town of Midway, Utah, just another town, a few miles outside of Heber City,
Starting point is 00:47:24 so same area, had slowed down to stare at the same thing. This big old unfinished, 22,000-plus square feet mansion sitting on an 8.75 acre lot off a state route 113. Looking like somebody had once dreamed real big and then walked away. Locals
Starting point is 00:47:42 called it the Midway Mansion. Ground had initially broke on the project back in 2017. the initial owner, Doug Roy Lance, once had big old plans for it. He was hoping to build a communal space for rent with eight bedrooms, 12 bathrooms, two kitchens, a swimming pool, a golf simulator, and a rock climbing wall, all included within the property. But Roy Lance's enthusiasm faded somewhere between the stalled permit applications and the news that somebody had died inside the half-built shell of his dream project.
Starting point is 00:48:08 And in 2019, the Midway Mansion was largely abandoned. And I'm not sure why the death spooked him, but that's what the source says. source says. Now, one may hear unfinished and mansion and picture something with an unpaved driveway, just some missing light fixtures. You know, maybe a house needs some work, but has good bones.
Starting point is 00:48:24 It could be polished up relatively quickly. Midway Mansion was not that. Far from a simple fixer-upper with a ton of potential. It was an obvious fucking money pit to almost anybody thinking about taking it on. According to the contract addendum, the Midway Mansion had experienced,
Starting point is 00:48:38 quote, extensive vandalism, theft of materials, significant structural damage and likely had a variety of animals living inside his ventilation systems. Here's a whole fucking habitat in there. The property wasn't even connected to the sewage system and some wetlands on the property
Starting point is 00:48:55 had not been yet evaluated to confirm whether or not it was even safe or legal to develop portions of this land. Several environmental agencies had to be commissioned to come out and inspect the wetlands. The house was undeniably a shit show, a total mess. The contract stated that the buyer, so, you know, Corey,
Starting point is 00:49:11 would have to accept the property in its, quote, unfinished, disassembled, unrepared, damaged state. The forensic accountant who later reviewed this deal said that she had never seen not once in her career a purchase contract with that many problems disclosed up front. And the asking price for all these problems was $2.9 million. A $50,000 deposit was due up front money Corey didn't actually have that she would have to borrow. The settlement deadline to purchase the property was March 4, 2022. Eric thought this was fucking insane. He thought it was way too expensive, too much of a problem. He hadn't even wanted Corey to look at it, but she wasn't going to listen to him.
Starting point is 00:49:49 She was absolutely convinced that if anybody could take that wreck of a property and turn it around and turn it into something worth, you know, twice or more, what she paid for it, it was going to be her. This was going to be her ticket to taking her business to the next level, to building millions of dollars without his help. Towards, I believe, making enough money to leave him. Unsurprisingly, they fought about this. and then Corey shared with her friends a secret she had been keeping that her relationship with Josh Grossman had crossed the line and now they were romantically involved but they had come on they'd been involved for quite a while
Starting point is 00:50:21 she will later lie to her friends about ending the relationship and I'm certain that she lied about when it began also while all this drama was going on on New Year's Day 2020 somebody logged into Eric's New York life insurance portal using his credentials and changed the beneficiary on that $2 million life insurance policy that insured his business partner, Cody Wright, changed it to Corey.
Starting point is 00:50:42 That's weird. Who was that? Who did that? Brian Freckleton, Eric's insurance agent, got the alert almost immediately through his agent portal, tried to reach both Eric and Cody, but neither picked up.
Starting point is 00:50:53 He eventually got through to New York Life directly had the changes reversed. Still the site logged both the IP address and the client ID used to make the change and who this was. We'll later be debated in court, but it's fucking Corey. was she already planning to murder him?
Starting point is 00:51:09 But then the next month, on February of 2022, it seemed to many like things might have been approving. And Eric and Corey's marriage, according to their friends, looked like they were doing better than they've been doing in years. Chelsea, Corey's best friend, said she couldn't remember the last time Corey had called to complain about Eric being an asshole. Ali Staking, Corey's other best friend testified that around the same time, Corey told her that her fare with Josh was over, right?
Starting point is 00:51:31 Her and Eric are in love. To a lot of people, now the Richens' marriage started to look. like a good comeback story. Two people on the edge of divorce. They went to counseling, they fucking worked it out, and now they found the way back to one another. But then on the morning of Valentine's Day, Corey ordered a bagel sandwich
Starting point is 00:51:47 from Mirr-Lake Diner and Camas, left it for Eric on the front seat of his truck, along with a tender love note. Eric, instead of waiting to eat it for lunch, he just dove right in and almost immediately, almost died. Broke out in hives. Very quickly, he could barely breathe.
Starting point is 00:52:03 He ended up grabbing his son's epipen injecting himself and pounded a bottle of Benadryl. Hours later, Eric told two of his friends he felt like he genuinely was going to die after eating that sandwich. According to court documents, quote, I think my wife tried to poison me. Later that day, Eric Richens texted his wife.
Starting point is 00:52:22 I'm going to go lay down for a bit. If I don't start getting better, I'm going to head to the hospital. As scary as this was, by the next weekend, it seemed to have become nothing more than a funny story for the couple and their friends. Eric and Corey were with some of these friends, and Eric brought it up the way Ali's staking remembered it.
Starting point is 00:52:38 She would later testify that he was laughing when he told this story when he said Corey had tried to poison him and somebody in the group shot back, you know, with, well, don't even, Corey feeds you. Corey laughed it off. Just a weird reaction. She said, ah, it's not a big deal. Ali's overwhelming memory that day was not one of concern or suspicion. It was how good the two seemed together.
Starting point is 00:52:56 But this is still just a facade of front. Eric's business partner, Cody Wright, had a very different story to tell the jury. He remembered a phone call around two in the afternoon. on that Valentine's Day. Eric called him, and while he was not allowed to tell the jury what Eric had said, he testified that Eric sounded frantic and afraid. Cody said that the only other times he had heard that kind of fear in Eric's voice was when Eric called him to tell him his mom had died.
Starting point is 00:53:19 Linda, unfortunately, died in 2018 from something not publicly disclosed at the age of 59. Eric also sounded like that once after a serious car accident when he worried that he had killed somebody. But Eric did not push his suspicions any further after that. Meanwhile, around the same time. Corey Richens texted Josh Grossman, her lover. Quote, if he could just go away and you could just be here, life would be so perfect. I love you.
Starting point is 00:53:44 So, you know, clearly they're not broken up. On March 2nd, 2022, two days before Eric would be found dead, Josh texted Corey, asked if she wanted to grab lunch. She responded she couldn't make it, as she had too much going on. But could they meet for a celebratory drink soon? Josh wrote back, okay, love you. and Corey wrote back, love you. What did Corey plan on celebrating?
Starting point is 00:54:06 Time to jump ahead to the big day now, okay? Time to stop fucking around with this story and share some dirt, okay? Spill the tea, okay? Take the main skeleton out of the main closet, okay? And do that in a, you know, not flipping, not disrespectful manner, okay? For real, it's now March 3rd, 2022, and this is what Cory Richens will say happen the night leading up to the 911 call. Around 9 p.m., Corey and Eric said good night to their boys,
Starting point is 00:54:30 tucked him into bed. Corey then made Eric a drink, a Moscow mule. Vodka and ginger beer, maybe some lime juice, which she served in a copper mug. And because Corey was in an ultra-celebratory way, she also made lemon drop shots with vodka's simple syrup and lemon juice. Midway Mansion was closing soon. She wanted to drink to that. She also made Eric's drink a little stronger than it should have been. Maybe like dozens of times or a hundred or a thousand times stronger.
Starting point is 00:54:55 Earlier that evening, Corey's lover Josh Grossman had sent a gif of two people kissing with the caption, love you gross The two had plans to meet for brunch But Corey had to rain checked Later in the week Telling Josh Can I try Friday?
Starting point is 00:55:08 Give me a few days Right there's still texting back and forth A bunching there until then please she says She's planning on having her schedule Really open up soon Sometime around 915 that night Eric and Corey climbed into bed According to phone records presented at trial
Starting point is 00:55:20 Eric was still active on his phone until 10 p.m. texting with work associates But then one of their sons cried out Ashton their seven-year-old Have been suffering from night terrors lately So Corey got up went to him, climbed into his bed, and fell asleep. Then at some point after that, she awoke and went back to their room.
Starting point is 00:55:38 And I'll share what happened next after our second and two mid-show sponsor breaks. Thanks for listening to those sponsors. I hope you heard deals you liked. Hope you use our codes and landing pages so our sponsors know we sent you and you get some good deals. And now let's return to the fateful night in the early hours of March 4th, 2020. When Corey got into bed and reached for Eric, he was cold. what she pushed him but he didn't respond then she got up and maybe did a little celebratory jig
Starting point is 00:56:06 maybe tossed on some music or maybe it was more like this vibe oh psycho killer peskissing yeah probably more like that uh who knows she for sure at 321 a.m early Friday morning
Starting point is 00:56:33 March 4th called 911 Digital forensics will later show that Corey's phone was unlocked and active at 306 a.m. But that she did not dial 911 until approximately 15 minutes later. It was all kind of speculation about that. Make a that what you will. Hopefully it wasn't some fucking horrible situation where he was still alive and she was waiting for him to die. The 911 recording was played in court. I'll play you what some of the jury heard now.
Starting point is 00:56:57 No, no, I'm registered for the emergency. I'm not breathing. He's cold. Okay. What's the address? 282 282 4 low court
Starting point is 00:57:12 2 8 06000 low court okay what's a good phone number in case we get disconnected 435 671
Starting point is 00:57:25 1997 okay is it's going to be in Francis okay tell me exactly what happened I don't know it's too much it it's kind of hard to hear I feel like it's kind of hard to hear, and without captions, pretty rough.
Starting point is 00:57:42 I just want to give you a little sample of her tone. She told the operator that her husband's body was cold and then he wasn't breathing. Her voice would come through high and frantic when she said, you know, I don't know what to do. The operator asked if she could perform CPR, and then Corey kind of got snappy, and she's like, yeah, obviously I'm not stupid, okay? But I don't want to, okay? He struggles with sinus drainage, and it makes his breath bad, okay? No. No, she said she didn't know.
Starting point is 00:58:09 know how. The operator said that, you know, she would walk her through it, but first she needed to get Eric off of the bed and onto the floor. And then Corey was just adamant that she couldn't possibly move him, that he, that she couldn't touch him. The operator told her that she had to, that she needed to calm down, that she could do it. The, you know, she could be guided through CPR for several minutes. Corey insists it, I can't, I can't move his body. She tells her kids or kid at one point not to come into the room. I can't move it. It's dead weight, she told the operator at one point referring to her husband's body as it eventually she pulled herself together enough to get him to the floor approximately seven full minutes into the call that's that feels absurd
Starting point is 00:58:49 uh then they counted compressions together starting at seven minutes 43 seconds into the call i mean if he had been alive when the call had started her hesitation here would have killed him uh the call continued until first responders arrived took over when first responders and the police show up to the house corey is there to greet them uh the ambulance and medics go straight to Eric's room. The attempt to resuscitate him, it's a lost cause. As soon as they begin CPR,
Starting point is 00:59:14 they reported that blood started gushing from his mouth. First responder Margaret Offret was working part-time for the Park City Fire District the night she was dispatched to 282 Willow Court. Upon walking to the richest bedroom, she said she found Eric face up on the floor and that his body was down by the foot of the bed, not by the side of it,
Starting point is 00:59:30 and she found that unusual. Why? Because when paramedics drag somebody to the floor for CPR off a bed, it's almost always off the side of the bed. it's much less of a pull. Eric was also lying, quote, very straight. When Margaret would have expected his arms to be flailed or his body to be at an angle, it was like he had been just carefully posed.
Starting point is 00:59:49 A police officer took Corey away from the mayhem, began to question her, you know, what had happened tonight, body cam was rolling the entire time they spoke. Corey told the officer that Eric had Lyme disease and had been getting allergy shots, which was a lie. That's what she said, but not true. Right out the gate, she's lying. She said his chest had been hurting before he, went to bed and she hadn't thought it was anything serious though, just probably wasn't
Starting point is 01:00:11 drinking enough water. Officer asked about any drug use, prescription or otherwise. Corey mentioned he sometimes took THC gummies at night to help sleep and that he had taken pills way back in high school, but nothing like that since. Corey asked if she could call her mother and then she did. Lisa Darden, possible, rumored murderer herself, arrived soon thereafter. The officer's body camera was still recording when Lisa sat down on the couch and began speculating calmly about Eric's allergy shots, which he again did not take.
Starting point is 01:00:39 It's a wise mom line, along with daughter here. Did she coach Corey through this? Lisa told the officer that Eric had not looked so good last night when she had seen him earlier in the evening. Other people won't corroborate that. Meanwhile, Corey was sitting on the couch, her face in her hands. Summit County Sheriff's Deputy Vincent Wynn would later testify that, quote, every time I spoke to Mrs. Richens. It just seemed like her face was in her hands and I couldn't see her face.
Starting point is 01:01:03 and he found that just a little abnormal, he said. Despite life-saving efforts for emergency services, Richens was, of course, pronounced dead at 4.58 a.m. I mean, he had been dead. EMTs and firefighters testified that when they first arrived, he was already, quote, cold to the touch. Flatline with no heartbeat, of course. First responders on scene talked amongst themselves.
Starting point is 01:01:24 One suspected Eric had died of a brain aneurysm. How else could they explain a fit, healthy young father dropping dead all of a sudden in the middle of the night? Just days earlier, he'd been running around into a sun's soccer game. And what about that Moscow mule he drank? Did anyone get a look at that? No. Because this was initially not investigated as a homicide,
Starting point is 01:01:41 no search of the premises was made specifically looking for in cataloging, you know, any potential evidence. So at some point during the night, the copper mug that held Eric's last drink ended up in the kitchen sink. Next morning, the family's nanny, put in the dishwasher, and any possible evidence was washed away. Back to the night of the murder, the sheriff told Corey about what was going to happen next.
Starting point is 01:02:01 She listened, her head still in her hands, as the sheriff explained that since Eric was young and by all accounts in good health, the medical examiner would be coming to conduct her investigation and they would likely take his body away to be examined. And when he said that, Corey began licking her lips and tapping her foot and wailing, oh my God, oh my God. Meanwhile, her poor sons are hide in their rooms,
Starting point is 01:02:21 their ears pressed against the door. Lisa then told Corey that the boys already knew that their father was gone. They'd heard her from one of the officers, Lisa said, and that she had then sent them back to sleep, which feels a little odd to me. hopefully there's more to it than that. Grandma?
Starting point is 01:02:36 Grandma is Daddy dead? Yes, he is. And you know what? That's true. But what's also true? It's still past your bedtime. Get to bed right now. For I give you something to cry about.
Starting point is 01:02:46 Something else. Something else to cry about, okay? Moments later, Katie, when Eric's sisters arrived, along with her husband Clint and their daughters, Katie burst to the door hysterically, made a beeline straight for her nephews. Then outside the home, she pulled the investigators aside and told him,
Starting point is 01:03:00 I'm his everything for his will and every thing. for his will and everything. I'm his power of attorney. I'm his everything. Why is she fucking talking about power of attorney and will at this point? That's weird. Katie embraced Corey. The two women sat on the floor, hugged in crime.
Starting point is 01:03:13 Corey kept telling her over and over. I don't know what happened. We were celebrating just hours ago. We were laughing. He was active. He didn't just dying asleep. This is insane. She said.
Starting point is 01:03:24 Eugene, Eric's father, was already in the car, driving over from the family ranch. Inside the house, investigators were moving through the rooms. There was no obvious sign of what had killed Eric Richens. They noticed white specks on the nightstand beside the bed, found an old hydrocodone bottle from 2016. But again, since no foul play was suspected at this moment,
Starting point is 01:03:43 neither the specs nor the bottle were tested. Crystal Bowman Carter, or Bowman Carter, excuse me, who had helped Eric Richon set up a trust, later testified that she received a call from an officer who then passed the phone to Corey Richens to talk with her. Crazy that Corey wants to figure out the exact nature of what she's going to get in the will before some of the officers who have come to her house because her husband has just died have even left.
Starting point is 01:04:05 Not even going to take a fucking day to start moving towards that money. Crystal told Corey that their home belonged to a trust. She later said that it seemed Richens was unaware of that. Quote, she was livid. She was upset and she said, What is wrong with you people? By that night, a lot of family and friends
Starting point is 01:04:22 had gathered at the house and rallied around Corey and her kids. People were drinking, talking about Eric, dancing, playing with the kids, trying to put a brave face on for the kids. Ali Staking was there. She later testified that Corey seemed distraught when she arrived, you know, like someone grieving, like any normal person would grieve. But the following morning, Saturday, March 5th, with people still sleeping over from the night before,
Starting point is 01:04:42 Corey announced less than 36 hours after she had found Eric dead in their bed that she had to go. She had to get to work. Amy Richens looked at her. Eric's sister was like, go where exactly? Well, to close a deal on the Midway Mansion. Amy responded, quote, you can't tell me you're going to close on the Midway Mansion when my brother just died. And Corey looked back at her, matter of fact, and said, Yeah, absolutely.
Starting point is 01:05:03 He has nothing to do with it. The money's already gone through. It's all my business. I'm going to. And then she left. Fucking weird if she really said, it's all my business. Hey, this is my business.
Starting point is 01:05:14 All right? If it was his business, I would grieve. But it's mine. So I'm not. Like, what the fuck? Also, Amy would testify that Corey had started to talk about the deal the day before. I'd taken a phone call about it with one of her sons on her lap, like hours within Eric dying.
Starting point is 01:05:28 and, you know, with, like, maybe within, like, within 12 hours, she's fucking talking about selling their house. Amy would also later testify that Coria told the family she was too distraught to help plan Eric's funeral. And yet, again, within 36 hours of his death, she's closed on this $2 million home. Hiring a real estate agent, retaining an architect to drop renovation plans, instructing a lawyer to file a lawsuit against Eric's trust, all that shit. Can do all that right away. Can't help with this funeral. More on some of this in a moment. the following morning, Sunday, March 6th,
Starting point is 01:05:58 there's snow on the ground, it had been snowing most of the night. Amy is at the house, still helping out, getting ready to leave, and she notices a truck in the driveway. She clocks the logo on the side, runs into the garage,
Starting point is 01:06:10 where inside she finds in Eric's detached garage, is a locksmith and Corey's brother. The locksmith is drilling into Eric's gun safe, which turns out held between $125,000 and $165,000 in cash. God damn. already without consulting an attorney about the will in the trust. She's getting Eric's cash. And speaking of the will, a signed copy is supposed to be in that gun safe.
Starting point is 01:06:35 She had tried and tried to get in with the combination but didn't know the code. Very telling that her husband didn't share the code to this gun safe with her. Amy asked Corey multiple times, why couldn't she just call her dad Eugene for the combo? Because he knew it. Amy couldn't understand why Corey was drilling into and destroying Eric's safe rather than just like getting the code from her from her dad. Amy asked her again and again, can you please just call you? Eugene for the code. Corey continued to refuse to answer and then things began to escalate.
Starting point is 01:07:01 And soon the two women started to scream at each other. According to Amy's victim's statement, Corey hurled out insults that were not appropriate for her to repeat in court. Then she screamed at Amy, get out of my house. That was when Amy stopped her because Amy knew that legally, not your fucking house,
Starting point is 01:07:16 psycho. Didn't you hear? Amy told her, the house belongs to Eric's trust. And now that Eric was gone, Eric and Amy's sister Katie was the trustee, so it was her call, really, who stays in the house. Corey had been cut out entirely. Reportedly, losing this house came as a total shock to Corey.
Starting point is 01:07:32 Corey then, quote, became enraged and punched Eric Richon's sister in the face and neck. According to court documents, it took four people to pull her off and the police had to be called. When officers arrived to the scene,
Starting point is 01:07:44 they then called Eric Richens' estate planning lawyer who confirmed the existence of this living trust and the beneficiary being Katie. So Corey didn't have the authority to fucking kick this lady out of here. Corey, because of all this, will later be charged with assault on June 9th.
Starting point is 01:07:59 And then in February of 2023, she will enter a plea in abeyance and agree to pay a $1,105 fee and complete a grief counseling course in exchange for the charges eventually being dismissed. But then she will never pay that fee, will never submit receipts for the course
Starting point is 01:08:14 she will never go to, and she will be found guilty of misdemeanor assault in May of 2024. Before the funeral, Corey opened a new bank account and asked everybody grieving to send money there instead of flowers or cards about Eric. That feels shameless.
Starting point is 01:08:32 She just got all that fucking cash from the safe. Viewings are held at the Hennifer LDS Chapel now near Eric's Father's Ranch. The funeral followed at 11 a.m. Friday, March 11th, also held in Hennifer at the service itself. The divide was impossible to miss. The Richens remained on one side of the chapel,
Starting point is 01:08:49 the Darden's on the other. Not much intermingling. It's getting real cold between these two groups already. two weeks after Eric died, Corey listed the Midway Mansion online with an asking price of about 4.8 million. Uh-huh. Then a little over a week later, March 28th, she sues Eric's sister Katie for control of the estate, claiming their prenuptial agreement had actually entitled her to the family home and his assets. Katie's legal team filed back.
Starting point is 01:09:13 Their response noted amongst other things, something Corey may not have considered, that Utah has what's called a Slayer statute, that if you kill somebody, you do not get to inherit from them. so shots fired. And now it's Civil War, truly between the two families. Eric's sister will claim she made it very difficult for anyone to visit the kids and tried to poison her son's minds against Eric's family now. A jury will later hear a phone call. Corey made to Bryce, Eric's close friend, with Chelsea standing beside her around this time.
Starting point is 01:09:43 Corey got livid on this call as well. She told Bryce that she knows his loyalty is with the richons, but that she has something she needs to get off her chest. She starts with her $250,000 he-lok line of credit drama. which Bryce already knew about. But Corey wanted to get set the record straight. Eric had never believed in her, she said. He never let her work. And quote, he just never gave me a fucking chance, Bryce.
Starting point is 01:10:04 So she took one on herself. And that $250,000, well, she had turned it into, don't you know, $11 million worth of real estate in just two years. Corey tells Bryce, she doesn't care about the rest of the money. She doesn't need it. She doesn't want the trust or the life insurance. She wants the $3 million in the life insurance money
Starting point is 01:10:21 to go to her kids. All she cares is, out on principle is the house, right? The house, which according to Corey, she put $80,000 towards the mortgage. She paid $60,000 cash out of her money to build a pool. It's not Eric's house. It's their house. Chelsea was sitting with Corey during this call, jumps in. She's like, you know, affirming all this. She tells Bryce that Amy and Katie are refusing to settle anything until the autopsy comes back because Amy thinks Corey has something to do with Eric's death. Then the call goes quiet. Bryce thinks, man, this shit's crazy. This is crazy.
Starting point is 01:10:51 he can't imagine Corey having anything to do with, you know, killing Eric. She just doesn't have it in her, and Chelsea agrees. By this point, Katie and Amy, they have made up their minds about Corey. They think she is an incompetent mother. They have told her so, and they think she's killed Eric. But not everybody in the Richens family is sharing that assessment. Eugene, staying out of it entirely. He's teams Switzerland as far as anybody can tell.
Starting point is 01:11:15 I mean, he's probably just fucking worried about how, you know, Corey is going to take this out on his ability to see the grandkids if he interjects. But the rich and sisters they want to take Corey down. They are fucking fierce, relentless.
Starting point is 01:11:29 May we all have siblings like Amy and Katie. Hail Lucifina to these warriors. Corey meanwhile, telling anybody who will listen the same thing on repeat. Eric didn't do drugs. He didn't smoke.
Starting point is 01:11:40 He was running around at a soccer game two days before he died. She's pushing for more testing, more answers. Right? She got nothing to hide. It can't be. COVID, she keeps insisting. The man was in better shape than anybody she knew. And then the autopsy results come back in April a little over a month after his death. Dr. Pamela Sue Ulmer had performed the autopsy the morning after Erica died. She found no heart disease, no stroke, no natural cause
Starting point is 01:12:01 of death. His ribs were fractured, almost certainly from CPR. His lungs had white nodules from years of stone masonry work. But apart from that, every major organ looked normal. There wasn't even any THC in his system, no hydrocodone either. There was some Tylenol. Oh, and one, and more thing, there was kind of like a little bit of fentanyl. A little lethal dose of fentanyl. Five times lethal dose was found in his system, literally overkill.
Starting point is 01:12:28 Also, the fentanyl that killed Eric was not medical grade fentanyl. It was street fentanyl, right? The kind sold by fucking, you know, your average drug dealer. Oma retired in 2023 before the investigation concluded and left the matter of death, accident, homicide, suicide, natural as undetermined.
Starting point is 01:12:44 She simply didn't have enough information to make that call, she felt. But it sure fucking looked a lot like murder. Now investigators have something new to try and explain. No fentanyl have been found anywhere in the house. No paraphernalia. No pills. No messages on his phone. Nothing that would explain how so much fentanyl had got into Eric's system. And then one of Eric's sisters told investigators something else.
Starting point is 01:13:02 That a few years earlier, Eric had called her from Greece, where he and Corey had gone to on vacation and where a drink that Corey specifically had handed him had made him violently ill. Corey would later say that Eric just got sick in Greece because the restaurant mixed alcohol into his drink, although he ordered a non-alcoholic one. That doesn't make any fucking sense. He was not allergic to alcohol. He drank alcohol regularly. Not expecting alcohol to be in one drink you're drinking. Might make you buzzed.
Starting point is 01:13:31 Might make you drunk. Not going to make you sick. Right? Unless you've had problems with alcohol before, which he did not. According to Eric's sisters, Eric believed that Corey tried to kill him. Eric's sisters also told investigators that Eric had told them, quote, if anything happens to me, Corey did it. So that's pretty damning.
Starting point is 01:13:47 A lot of circumstances. substantial evidence is mounting up. So the question investigators now have to answer is whether Katie or Amy, excuse me, Katie and Amy are just two grieving sisters desperate to make sense of this tragedy, looking for someone, anyone to blame, or if the woman crying in the house when they first went there that day that they found Eric's body was not a grieving widow, but a cold-blooded killer. And if it was the latter, where the hell had Corey Richens gotten so much fentanyl? Also, you know, they are trying to figure out who Eric is, you know, what kind of
Starting point is 01:14:17 man was he behind closed doors? The two families could not agree on that. On the stand, Cody Wright, Eric's best friend, described Eric as a cowboy who never stayed home long or complained when dealing with sickness or pain that he loved to work, love to be outside, that he pushed through COVID and through back pain. He testified under oath that he had never seen Eric take
Starting point is 01:14:35 over-the-counter drugs, prescription drugs, or illicit drugs, no drugs. Just toughed it out. The defense would later attempt to impeach Wright's testimony, though, thanks to a previous statement he had made in which he said he had heard that Eric was popping pain pills, and quote, red devils, which he understood to be pseudofid. The rest of Eric's family stated that, to their knowledge,
Starting point is 01:14:55 Eric did not use drugs at all. Corey's mother, Lisa, said she recalled Eric asking about, or asking around for pain pills, though, that he did this when he went to Mexico. And Corey's brother Ronnie told investigators that on trips he had taken with Eric down in Mexico, he had bought weed gummies from people off the street. But had they been coached to tell that story?
Starting point is 01:15:15 There's evidence that points to that. They'll come up at the trial later. Right now, investigators had Eric's side saying he's not a drug user, this doesn't smell right. Somebody did this to him. And they had Corey's side saying, Eric is when he's in pain, he takes things sometimes,
Starting point is 01:15:30 and this must have been a terrible accident. The argument that Eric was a manual laborer and outdoorsman who had suffered for years with chronic back pain and went out looking for relief and got something laced, that'll become the foundation for Corey's entire defense strategy. By the fall of 2022, All suspicion did surround Eric's death, and there were obvious concerns about Corey's possible involvement. The criminal investigation had all but stalled.
Starting point is 01:15:52 The sheriff's office had run out of momentum, didn't have the smoking gun they needed to make an arrest, but the Richens family not ready to give up on bringing Corey to justice. Within weeks of Eric's passing, an attorney named Crystal Bowman Carter had reached out to a PI, a private investigator named Todd Gabler on behalf of Eric's sister Katie Richens Benson. Fuck yeah, Katie. the person named trustee of Eric's estate who was now deep in civil litigation with Corey and this team still fighting
Starting point is 01:16:18 Todd Gabler had 34 years of experience had worked on approximately 100 homicide cases and he would be handing all over his findings or handing over all of his findings to the sheriff's office on April 1st, 2020, less than a month after Eric died Gabler met with Katie and her husband Clint at their home in Summit County and was officially hired
Starting point is 01:16:36 over the following months he interviewed 40 to 50 people placed GPS trackers on vehicles used by Corey, her mom, and her brother. As a private investigator, he was not bound by the same rules as law enforcement, which meant he could move faster and look harder in certain ways. He went back to and through the Richens' house, and when he found things that the sheriff's office had missed, he flagged them. Gabbler also dug into phone records.
Starting point is 01:16:58 He got hold of Corey and Eric's phone billing records through C&E Stone Masonry, which paid their Verizon bills. He pulled multiple batches from January of 2022 through May of 2022 and from May of 2022 through February of 2023. Now, billing records don't show the actual content of text or phone calls. What Todd managed to pull instead was the numbers connected to each phone. And from there, he can decode each number to a name, fill in every instance the number appears and start counting contacts. What emerged from all that was a picture of who Corey was talking to and how often she was talking to them.
Starting point is 01:17:31 Her most frequent contact was her mom, followed by Eric, followed by a woman named Carmen Lopper. Laber, we heard her name earlier, had been cleaning the Richens House. every other week for years. She worked for her aunt's cleaning company and the richens were on her regular rotation. Carmen, Eric, and Corey had all been on good terms. Gabler found hundreds of text messages
Starting point is 01:17:52 between Corey and Carmen in the months leading up to Eric's death specifically. And as Gabbler dug around further, he found out that Carmen had a pretty extensive criminal record. As Todd Gowler would later testify in the stand, quote, well, it was immediately apparent to me
Starting point is 01:18:05 that Carmen had a very extensive criminal record involving drug use and potentially drug sales. He noted that, Carmen had a dirty urine analysis, meaning that she tested positive for prohibited drugs in her drug court around the time of Eric's death. I was very concerned about the high number of contacts, he said, in the criminal history for Carmen, and I alerted the sheriff's office about that. This name, Carmen Lobber, will soon become one of the most important names in this case. Also, this private detective seems like he's really good at his job, right?
Starting point is 01:18:33 I love this dude. A year after Eric's death, in March of 2023, while P.I. Gabbler kept digging, Corey was still walking free. She was still in counseling, so were her boys, and she was also promoting a new book. She'd hired a ghostwriter months earlier, and she had just self-published a book called, Are You With Me? The story followed a child who lost his father, but is reminded that his presence still exists all around. In the book, Eric is an angel, always close by. He says on one page, yes, I am with you on Christmas.
Starting point is 01:19:04 You can't see my smile, but it's there. I'm here and we're together. Corey's family said the book genuinely helped that the boys seemed happier. that it felt for the first time like they might actually be able to move forward. Is that why Corey wrote it to help her boys and others? No. No, she wanted to make a bunch of money. She wanted to sell 100,000 copies by the end of the year. That was her goal.
Starting point is 01:19:23 She was making $5.35 a book through Amazon Print on Demand, was already looking into launching her own website to sell from and keep a larger share of the profit. The next month in April, Corey would appear on a local morning show called Good Things, Utah, to promote this book. Parent, a sibling or friend, talking about loss with kids can be a tricky subject. Joining us now is author of Are You With Me, Corey Richens, to share her three Cs to helping kids cope with grief. And Corey, I want to start with your story. What happened in your personal life?
Starting point is 01:19:56 So my husband passed away unexpectedly last year. So it's March 4th was a one-year anniversary for us. and he was 39. It completely took us all by shock. And we have three little boys, 10, 9, and 6. She's so calm. And, you know, we kind of, my kids and I kind of wrote this book on the different emotions and grieving processes that we've experienced last year
Starting point is 01:20:24 and, you know, hoping that it can kind of help other kids, you know, deal with this and kind of, you know, find happiness. some way or another. And to make sense and process, I'm sure. And I'm sure. So she goes on, you know, it's a lengthy interview. She tells the interviewer at one point, she's, uh, she had went looking on Amazon and Barnes & Noble for something she could
Starting point is 01:20:48 read to her boys at night, uh, who had kept asking her, you know, his dad was at birthday parties, his dad with us at Christmas. She couldn't find anything that brought them comfort. So she decided to write a book herself. Uh, reviews for this now, uh, pretty much impossible to find book. Uh, at goodreads. are pretty epic. I want to share a few with you,
Starting point is 01:21:07 just because they're very entertaining. Dremacraft left a one-star review writing, This book should be flagged on good reads. I don't know what the flag would be, except when someone murders her husband and writes a book, there should be a flagged. Jonathan, some of the user Jonathan also gave it a one-star writing, This book is a killer.
Starting point is 01:21:24 It will take your breath away, so good that it's simply murder. The author clearly knows all about death on a deeply intimate level. When I finished, I felt like I've been poisoned to death with fentanyl by a loved one. It's that powerful. I can honestly say it kicks harder than a Moscow mule. Oh, fuck. And then the username Courtney also gave it a one-star review writing,
Starting point is 01:21:42 What did I just read? This book was horrific. The first half is so terribly depressing that I can't imagine anyone would ever read this to a grieving child in good faith. And the illustrations are so bad. The angel dad looks like he is haunting the kid. Nothing about him looks warmer comforting. Oh, also consider that the author just got charged with murdering the husband who inspired
Starting point is 01:22:01 this book. There are so many other witty one-star. reviews. Well done internet. Prosecutors will later use this book promotion to build their case. If Corey could hire a ghost writer, go on television and call me lie about writing a children's book, which she didn't write that book with her kids. She fucking hired somebody to write it. What else could she lie about? Meanwhile, private investigator Todd Gabler is racking up a lot of investigative hours. Clint Benson, Katie's husband, footed the bill. By the time, by the end of the investigation, excuse me, Gabler would bill 936.3 hours at between $125 and $200 per hour.
Starting point is 01:22:33 making well over $100,000. Man, they really invested hard in this. But it seemed to be worth it. Gabor had just flagged that Carmen Lobber, the housekeeper, the woman whose number appeared hundreds of times in Corey's phone records, now on the ropes in drug court. Now it'd be the perfect time to talk to her, Gailer told investigators. She was primed to spill everything just so she could keep herself out of prison,
Starting point is 01:22:55 and detectives agreed. Backing up a little to reconnect with Carmen on March 27th, she'd been pulled over for driving on a suspended license and booked into the Wasatch County Jail, and then after what they had learned from Gailer, investigators looked further into Carmen and found out that the day Eric died, somebody had overheard her on the phone saying she made a bunch of money buying illicit street drugs. Detectives got a warrant, searched her home. They found THC products, drug paraphernalia, and under her bed a firearm. Carmen was a convicted felon. A firearm meant an automatic felony charge. And then pinned to her bedroom mirror right in the
Starting point is 01:23:30 center of a collage of inspirational quotes and photos of people she loved was Eric Richon's obituary. Pretty strange, right? Detective O'Driscoll would later testify that when he saw that obituary, he had a strong feeling that Carmen was carrying guilt over Eric's death, and guilty people in his experience tended to talk. So detectives talked to her for over 10 hours, spread out over six interviews. And in every single one of these interviews, Carmen Lobber stuck with the same story. She didn't touch fentanyl, and she didn't deal it. Her own daughter had nearly died from fentanyl overdotes and she was terrified of this stuff. And we'll pause there and then come back to Carmen during her trial.
Starting point is 01:24:05 Despite her initial denial, detective still felt she supplied Corey with fentanyl and investigators felt like they had enough to make an arrest. On May 8, 2023, after her boys had left for school, Corey Richens was arrested outside of Salt Lake City business. The Summit County Attorney's Office charged her with Eric's death, believing she had given him a lethal dose of fentanyl. She was refused bail and held in Summit County Jail. And now they worked to gather more evidence and assemble a case for the district.
Starting point is 01:24:29 district attorney. Four months after her arrest, a routine sweep of Corey's cell turned up a six-page handwritten letter tucked inside an L-Sat prep book. At the top of the first page in large letters, Corey had written, walk the dog, but take vague notes so you remember. Odd, right? This letter was addressed to her mother, Lisa. Detective,
Starting point is 01:24:49 seized it before it was sent, though. And when Corey found out about this, she called her mom, insisting that those pages were not a letter at all, but rather part of a 65-page mystery fiction novel she'd been working on You know, it's a little story she was working on. Just half the story. She had it was true.
Starting point is 01:25:03 You know, she hired a ghost writer to write the kid's book, but this book she was going to write on her own. She can write. She said wanted that one time. Corey's defense will soon fight hard to keep this away from the jury because it is incriminating as fuck. Prosecutors argued it was written to encourage family members to give false testimony.
Starting point is 01:25:18 Specifically, they said Corey was instructing her mom to coach her brother Ronnie into telling a particular story to her lawyer. Her defense argued that any allegations of witness tampering would be a sure-fire way to kill Corey's right. to a fair trial. We will come back to what was in this. According to Park City News, while awaiting trial,
Starting point is 01:25:36 Richens began pursuing various educational activities while in jail, including enrolling in both a paralegal studies program and an MBA. Nothing's going to slow her down. You know, she clearly believed she was going to be back out soon and kicking ass. In November of 2023,
Starting point is 01:25:50 Corey's brother Ronnie spoke to reporters. He said he was certain she was innocent, an accidental overdose he believed, was the most likely explanation. after all his sister, you know, couldn't even squash a spider. She also loved Eric and her family more than anything. Corey Richon's trial finally began this year, February 23rd, 2026, nearly four years after Eric was found cold and unresponsive in their bed.
Starting point is 01:26:15 The prosecution led by Deputy Summit County Attorney Brad Bloodworth. Fucking prosecutor, Bloodworth? Incredible. They had one little problem. A lack of evidence. There was no murder weapon, no family. fentanyl found anywhere in the house, no surveillance footage, no fingerprints, no DNA that pointed towards murder. Detective O'Driscollegle confirmed on the stand that across 10 search warrants and three years of investigation, not a single cup, glass, or straw from the Richon's home, testified positive for fentanyl. So, prosecutors were relying largely on circumstantial evidence.
Starting point is 01:26:48 Prosecutors would argue that Corey was a woman drowning in debt who wanted to run off and start a new life with her lover, and falsely believe she would inherit Eric's estate, which was worth in total about five years. million dollars at the time of his death. She administered a lethal dose of fentanyl to her husband on the night of March 3rd, 2022, and she did it for the money. The defense team, Kathy Nestor, Wendy Lewis, and Alexander Ramos held a counter to all of this that Eric was a man with the secret. A rancher and an outdoorsman who had spent months every year hunting in rural Mexico, a man who, according to the defense,
Starting point is 01:27:20 quietly developed a habit of buying pain pills off of the street down there, that fentanyl killed Eric, yes, but that Corey did not put it there. This was nothing but a tragic accidental overdose, the kind that had been killing people across Utah and America, North America, for years. Interestingly, the defense called no witnesses, which in a murder trial can mean one or two things usually. Either they have nothing, they have fucking no case at all to defend themselves with, or they're so confident in their case, so confident that the prosecution will fail to, you know, make their case that putting anybody in the stand is just going to be a waste of everybody's time. They really thought they had this in the back, it seems. Every day of the trial, Corey walked into a court with minimal makeup. Her hair slicked into a low bun.
Starting point is 01:28:02 Gone were the sun dresses and the cardigans and blouses button right to the top were in their place. One true crime analyst watching the coverage put it plainly, she looks meek, not polished, not somebody I would assume is cutthroat in business. Definitely a mom in your community. People said the clothing choices reminded them of Casey Anthony, which isn't great. Day one opening statements were read. The jury heard from Eric's loved ones who described who he was, how he lived, how his death had impacted the people around him.
Starting point is 01:28:29 Days 2 through 4, first responders and medical examiners took the stand. The jury heard about the scene at 282 Willow Court, the position of Eric's body. The blood gushed out from his mouth when CPR began. Days 5 and 6 brought Carmen Lobber, but before we get there, let's talk about phone records. Prosecutors called a digital forensic analyst named Chris Cotrademos to walk the jury through what Corey Richens had been doing on our iPhone.
Starting point is 01:28:54 at 829 in the morning March 4th, 2022, the same morning Eric's body was being wheeled out of their home just a few hours later the phone's forensic log showed that three gift memes
Starting point is 01:29:04 were accessed on Corey's phone. One showed Kevin Spacey in a suit with the captioned idiots, idiots everywhere. Another showed somebody wiping their eyes with cash. Uh-oh.
Starting point is 01:29:17 And the third was a clip of Donald Trump saying, I'm really rich. So that's not good. It's not a good look. Just hours after Eric is dead, she's like Come, it's my heart!
Starting point is 01:29:30 So, you know, not the best look. Defense pushed back on a legitimate technical point here, though. When Cotrademos said that the Gifts were accessed, he wasn't saying Corey sat down and had a laugh at memes while her husband's body was being removed from the bedroom. In forensic terms, forensic terms, accessed means the files were downloaded to the device in the background where an eye message containing a GIF was received.
Starting point is 01:29:51 The phone logs, the time's... the phone logs, excuse me, the timestamp, regardless of whether anyone ever opened the message or looked at the screen. The gifts, the defense argued, could have well been cached in a group chat. My God, that Corey hadn't even checked. The log tells you the file was on the device,
Starting point is 01:30:08 but there was no evidence that Corey even looked at it or sent them herself. So who knows, but still kind of looks bad. Like, was she getting messages like this at this time? Not a great look. Next to jury were shown a series of internet searches shortly after Eric died. Corey acquired a second phone.
Starting point is 01:30:24 Items on that phone have been erased, including internet searches, but forensic software was used to recover those deleted searches. So this isn't good. Because not only did she search for this stuff, but she had bought a second phone to do it with and then tried to delete it all.
Starting point is 01:30:37 Here's a partial list of what came back. How to change account, passwords, or delete ICloud information remotely, whether or whether law enforcement can recover deleted messages. She must have panicked when the results for that search came back. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Starting point is 01:30:52 All that shit can be recovered. Other searches were whether police can force you to take a lie detector test, how long it takes for life insurance to pay out, whether the manner of death on a death certificate can be changed after the fact, the definition of white color crime. If someone is poisoned, what does it go down on the death certificate as? Luxury Prisons for the Rich in America. She also read an article titled Cause or Yeah, titled Cause of Death usually does not impact life insurance payment. Corey's defense argued all of this was consistent with somebody who just learned
Starting point is 01:31:26 that she was a murder suspect. Corey was simply trying to understand the legal process and the investigation according to her defense, there was nothing there that indicates guilt. Then Josh Grossman took the stand.
Starting point is 01:31:39 Corey's lover, the man Corey, had told her closest friends the affair was over with at least nine months before Eric died. But of course, the affair had not ended then.
Starting point is 01:31:47 In fact, it continued for six to eight months after Eric had died, but now he is Corey's ex-boyfriend and testifying against. Mr. Josh wept at the witness stand at one point as a jury were shown their text. The guy seemed very torn up about the whole thing.
Starting point is 01:32:00 He testified that the affair ended when Corey and him had some sort of falling out. He said things were never the same between the two of them after Eric's death. Less than a month before Eric died, Corey sent Josh a text that read, If I was divorced right now and asked you to marry me tomorrow, you would? And Josh wrote back, yes, in love with Y-O-U. Of course I would. She had also been texting him about Midway Mansion. The plan as she laid it out was simple.
Starting point is 01:32:25 She wrote, I have a crazy dream. You quit your job. I divorce and come up with millions and millions. We buy midway and live in the guest house and rent out the huge house as a big event center. $15,000 a day like the charge down the street or like they charge down the road.
Starting point is 01:32:40 Maybe $12,000 today to stay competitive. And we just run the event center as our daily job and hang out every day. Raise some kids. Have a little farm. Deal? About two weeks after Eric died, Corey and Josh drove up into the Uinta Mountains
Starting point is 01:32:53 together just the two of them. Sometime on the trip, Eric's death came up in conversation. Of course it did. He's just been laid underground. Josh testified that he never once suspected Corey had anything to do with Eric's death, that she did not seem relieved. He said she seemed like she was grieving. But on that same trip, Corey asked Josh, have you ever killed anyone?
Starting point is 01:33:13 Josh had served in Iraq, and he told her that, yeah, he had. And then Corey asked him how that felt. So that's a little weird. That's suspicious. Next, the prosecution called forensic accountant Brooke Carrington to the stand. And if you've been keeping track for Corey's version of her finances, the $250,000 he locked turned into $11 million in equity via the House-flipping empire in just like two years. Well, Carrington is where that story falls apart.
Starting point is 01:33:39 Carrington went through the actual books. She reviewed, quote, thousands of documents, including property deeds, loans, emails, the couple's premarital agreement, in addition to interviewing accountants, realtors, and insurance providers. She found that Corey Richens had started to overdraft her accounts by late 2021. Remember, Eric died March 4th, 2022, with more than $300,000 in bounce checks written to contractors. Carrington said part of the issue may have been the rapid expansion of the business, which handled just one project in 2019 but was attempting to manage 15 different renovations
Starting point is 01:34:11 simultaneously in 2021. Just two years later, roughly simultaneously. Across the five months before Eric died, Kay Richon's Realty, brought in $170,000 in revenue. But Corey's monthly debt payments across all the properties, all those loans, all the lines of credit, she was juggling,
Starting point is 01:34:29 that exceeded $250,000 a month. So she made $170,000 in five months, but lost $250,000 a month, which if you're not going to math, that means she was fucking hemorrhaging money, drowning in debt. Things are not going well at fucking all. It's a situation that would come
Starting point is 01:34:49 cause most people to panic. Carrington laid out the truth about Corey's financial situation to the jury. She had around $6 million in assets. On the other side of that sat around $8 million in liability. So $2 million roughly in debt and getting further in debt quickly all the time. Every property she owned was worth less than what she still owed on it. Corey had also maxed out every line of credit and credit card in her name. She didn't even have the $50,000 deposit needed for the Midway Mansion.
Starting point is 01:35:15 She had to borrow that as well. prosecutor Brad Bloodworth asked Carrington one question now. As a forensic accountant, have you formed an option on Corey Richon's financial position or opinion, excuse me, on the day Eric died? Yes, Carrington said, what is your opinion? Bloodworth asked. As of the date that Eric Richens died, Corey Richon was in financial distress and her financial enterprise was collapsing, had been collapsing. And but for a significant infusion of cash and capital would have continued to collapse, it was imploding. that's quite quote.
Starting point is 01:35:49 Corey Richens' net worth on the day Eric Richens died was a negative, and this is approximate, $1.6 million. Between 2015 and 2017, she had also taken out four separate life insurance policies
Starting point is 01:36:00 in Eric's life with the total value of just under $2 million enough to cover her debt, which I guess, yeah, 1.6 million, I guess I don't know why some sources rounded up to two.
Starting point is 01:36:08 But maybe that wouldn't be enough to cover her debt because the defense pushed back on this. They said the calculations did make sense as a motive to kill because even with the life insurance, Corey's debts growing so fast at such a quick rate that the death actually wouldn't have saved her.
Starting point is 01:36:22 If money really was the motive, she had miscalculated badly. By the time she got all that insurance money, she would still be heavily in debt. Yeah, but she also thought she was getting $5 million from his business in the house, and she clearly wasn't fucking great of math because this is a complete shit show. The prosecution now had motive. They had the phone searches. They had Josh Grossman and the text. They had Brooke Carrington and imploding finances, but there was still a problem.
Starting point is 01:36:45 who put the fentanyl in Eric Ritchin's body? Where had it come from? If Corey did that? If she actually poisoned her husband, how did she get it? Well, she would have needed a source, which brings us back to Carmen Lobber. But real quick, right before we get into what Carmen said in the stand, let's deal with something the defense raised during the trial.
Starting point is 01:37:02 If Corey poisoned her husband with fentanyl, why did she spend the following year telling everybody that Eric never touched drugs, that he was the healthiest man she'd ever known? According to the defense, the smarter play, arguably the more obvious play, would have been to do the complete opposite. If Corey had simply told investigators Eric had been struggling with pain pills
Starting point is 01:37:19 or buying his gummies from dodgy sources, the whole thing might have been written off as a tragic accident. Well, the defense pointed out to the jury that Corey's insistence on Eric's clean image actually worked against the idea that she had planned any of this if she truly poisoned her husband
Starting point is 01:37:32 and wanted to get away with it, she would have seeded the narrative differently. Or she got a little too smart for herself, or she maybe thought she was playing chess and she was trying to make it look like her actions with the actions of an innocent person. Now back to Carmen. Carmen Lopper had been struggling with drugs her entire adult life.
Starting point is 01:37:49 By early 2022, she was enrolled in Wasatch County Drug Court, a program designed to keep low-level drug offenders out of prison if they can stay clean and comply. But Carmen are relapsed. With the drug court violations and the gun they found under the bed, her bed, investigators had everything they needed to put her away for quite some time. But detectives told her they weren't there to jam her up. They just wanted to talk.
Starting point is 01:38:08 They told her about how Eric Richens had died of a fentanyl overdose. She seemed surprised. She later testified. This was the first time she'd heard that that's how he died. She learned about Eric's death separately as it happened and immediately reached out to Corey, stating, please tell me the pills weren't for him. She said Corey told her, no, he died of a brain aneurysm. Jumping ahead of the trial now under oath,
Starting point is 01:38:30 Carmen said that Corey had first approached her asking if she knew anyone who could get pain pills for an investor, excuse me, friend of her. An inventor. She knew a random inventor. No, an investor friend of hers with a bad back. Corey told Carmen that other pills She had gotten him were quote not strong enough Carmen agreed to look
Starting point is 01:38:47 Reached out to a friend who connected her with the drug dealer Carmen said Do you have any pain pills for sale The dealer said he had fentanyl Carmen texted Corey back That she had a hookup for the pills But they were fentanyl And Corey replied
Starting point is 01:38:59 Okay go ahead and get them Corey then left out cash for Carmen Who picked up the pills Corey said to just drop them off in the house But Carmen didn't want to leave them out in the open So she dug a hole by the fire pit put the pills in it and covered it up with gravel. Around the end of February,
Starting point is 01:39:14 2022, just days before Eric died, Corey came back to Carmen with another request. She said the pills still hadn't been strong enough. Uh-huh. Sounds like she had crushed up that first batch and given them to him that Valentine's Day when he'd gotten sick after eating the food, she gave him. She said she now needed something stronger
Starting point is 01:39:32 and this time she had a specific reference point, the Michael Jackson stuff. Carmen had no idea what that meant, so she did a quick Google search, learned that the Michael Jackson's stuff likely referred to propofal, this powerful anesthetic that it killed MJ. So Carmen called up her dealer relayed the request. What the dealer actually supplied, Carmen didn't know. She picked up the small, clear baggy, the same 15 to 20 round pills, darker blue this time, and Corey came to her
Starting point is 01:39:55 driveway to collect them. Okay. The jury also learned that while Carmen was struggling to keep up with her drug court obligations, Corey had helped her obtain fake community service letters because she was too busy driving down Provo Canyon picking up drugs for Corey. The defense took aim at the interrogation. Wendy Lewis reminded the jury that detectives had shown up with a gun charge hanging over Carmen's head, had left her with the strong impression that not only cooperating but specifically implicating Corey was her get-out-of-jail-free cart. Lewis then pointed to the immunity deals and the inconsistencies between what Carmen had told
Starting point is 01:40:27 investigators initially when she was actively on drugs and struggling to remember details and what she was now saying on the stand three years later in 2026. If Carmen had everything to gain by giving them what they wanted, how much was her testimony actually worth, right? Fair, fair point. But then the jury heard all about that walk the dog letter that Corey wrote while she sat in a cell. The letter addressed to her mom, but never sent. The one that was found tucked inside an LSAT prep book during a routine cell sweep in September of 23. At the top of the first page in large letters, Corey had again written, Walk the Dog, but take vague notes so you remember. Beneath that, she wrote, so you remember, here's what I'm thinking. But you have to talk to
Starting point is 01:41:07 Ronnie, right, her brother. He would probably have to testify to this, but it's super short. Not a lot to it. He will need to tell Sky at the meeting next week. A year prior to Eric's death, Ronnie was over watching football one Sunday, and Eric and Ronnie were chatting about Eric's Mexico trips. Eric told Ronnie he gets pain pills and fentanyl from Mexico from the workers at the ranch. Not to tell me because I would get mad because I always said he just gets high every night. He won't help take care of the kids. There are pictures of my phone of Eric passed out on the floor or in the chair. Ronnie should have texts from Eric talking about getting high as well
Starting point is 01:41:38 Eric told Ronnie he keeps him in an allergy pill bottle in his work truck so I wouldn't find them. Ronnie never told me about this conversation. Eric finally told me and asked if Carmen could get him some. Eric never wanted anyone to know he had an issue, especially get caught. He always wanted Corey to go down
Starting point is 01:41:55 for him. When they traveled, Eric would put his drugs in course. Weirdly she's writing about ourselves in the third person, but put drugs in Corey's bag at the airlines right before they board it. That way if they were caught, Corey got in trouble, not him. Once they got to wherever they were going, Eric would pull the drugs out of her bag, and it would cause a huge fight.
Starting point is 01:42:12 She was pissed. He would risk her going to jail for his drug use. He would just laugh about it. Eric couldn't ruin his image that he had drug issues, so he would do whatever he had to. Corey had never done any type of pills, didn't like them, rarely would consume THC, only if Eric begged her because it was a special occasion. Reward this however he needs to,
Starting point is 01:42:31 to make the point, just include it all. The connection has to be made with Mexico and drugs. Ronnie will have the messages to prove Eric confided in him about getting high. It can be shortened to the point, but it has to be done. They never found pain pills or fentany in my house because he hid it in an allergy bottle in the work truck, and Cody emptied out the work truck within a week, so they were never found. When you talk to Ronnie about this, meet up with him in person. I worry sometimes your house and phone are bugged. Maybe drive down to SL, Salt Lake, and meet him after work without Bree. Tell Ronnie don't overanalyze it.
Starting point is 01:43:05 It was a quick two-minute conversation. Tell him, I need him to do this. Bring me home, and then we will get those damn hyphen. Also, please text Lotto or call. Tell him not to text me anything about us doing things together ever, like church, skiing, trips, nothing that puts us together. It doesn't look good. We're so close to the end.
Starting point is 01:43:22 Let's push through. I'm not sure what Lotto is. Have the conversation with Ronnie before he meets with Sky. Then tell him to tell Sky at the meeting about the conversation. Hang in there. We're almost there. Love you to the moon. take vague notes of all this
Starting point is 01:43:35 so you remember before you walk the dog not sure exactly what that code means definitely something inside Corey maintained that this was a mystery novel she was writing oh it's a mystery novel with a bunch of the names of the people you know in real life and a bunch of real things
Starting point is 01:43:52 and things that pertain to your court case it's a mystery novel that you're going to write even though you didn't write the kid's book all right the prosecution argued that reword this however he needs to make the point is not something an innocent person writing a novel would write. One more thing worth understanding before we share the verdict. Or before I shared.
Starting point is 01:44:11 Medical testimony at the trial explained that opioids can trigger what are called pseudo-allergic reactions where the drug directly stimulates certain cells to produce allergy-like symptoms like hives, right? Swelling, potentially, anaphylaxis. In other words, someone who had unknowingly ingested an opioid could present with every sign of a severe allergic reaction as Eric did Valentine's Day, 20th. So maybe after taking that first batch of pills, you know, unknowingly that had come from Carmen. That's when he had that allergy attack.
Starting point is 01:44:43 March 16, 2026. After three hours of deliberation at Summit County, the A Summit County jury ultimately found Corey Richens guilty of aggravated murder for fatally poisoned her husband, Eric, with a fentanylaced cocktail. She's 35 years old. The jury also found her guilty of attempted aggravated murder for a failed attempt to poison her husband on Valentine's Day just weeks before. death and guilty of two counts of insurance fraud. Corey Richon's bowed her head when it was read out loud. Outside the courthouse, Eric's family spoke to reporters. His sister said they were all surprised the verdict came in so fast.
Starting point is 01:45:16 The family issued a short statement. Four years ago, our family lost the brightest light. Eric is deeply loved and missed every single day. We are grateful to everyone who has worked tirelessly to bring justice for Eric. Our focus is now on honoring Eric's life and supporting his boys as we can all continue to heal. on May 13th, 2026, on what would have been Eric Richen's 44th birthday,
Starting point is 01:45:37 Corey's sentencing took place. Judge Richard Mrazik, not a dick seemingly, but a solid judge, sends Corey Richens, not good in this case, to three years in prison. Un-fucking believable.
Starting point is 01:45:53 Good job. No, he sentenced her to a lot longer than that. To life in prison without the possibility of parole for the aggravated murder of her husband, Eric Richens. Nice work. Hail Nimrod. He said regarding his reasoning that she was, quote,
Starting point is 01:46:06 simply too dangerous to ever be free. Corey barely flinched at the verdict. No emotional reaction at all. She was also given another five years to life in prison for attempted aggravated murder and one to 15 years in prison for each of the two counts of insurance fraud. Finally, up to five years forgery,
Starting point is 01:46:21 all sentences to be consecutive, not concurrent, Hale, Nimrod. Unless she wins an appeal, Corey will almost certainly die in prison, while standard parole is unavailable, a unique provision under Utah Code, allows a technical path for review. The Utah Board of Pardons in parole maintains the authority to release an individual serving a life without parole sends only if it is determined by clear and convincing evidence that the inmate is permanently incapable of being a threat to the safety of society.
Starting point is 01:46:47 Given the judge's declaration that Richens is simply too dangerous to ever be free, actual release through this board is highly improbable. As for her big Midway mansion, it foreclosed in May of 2023, more debt for Corey. Not that that fucking matters to her now. As for her three boys, they've all been living with a member of Eric's family since Corey's arrest, the state award of this unnamed family member, custody of them in November of 2024. After Corey was arrested, they talked with her mom twice a week through video calls early after she was arrested. When she was found guilty, maybe a bit before, they no longer wanted to do that.
Starting point is 01:47:23 In court, all three of the boys would have their emotional joint victim impact statement read about losing their beloved father. head of Corey's May 26th sentencing The son through You know They had people read this stuff for them Ask the judge to give their mother The harshest sentencing out of fear I don't want my mother out of jail
Starting point is 01:47:42 Because I will not feel safe if she's out Middle Child Ashton wrote in the memo With her in jail I will be able to continue to feel safe And live a happy and successful life Without fear of her hurting me Or anyone I love The youngest son Weston added
Starting point is 01:47:54 If she got out I will be so scared So fucking sad Right those kids lost both their parents The Good One is dead the bad ones in prison for life, and for what? All because Corey Richens just had to be rich. She had to be. She needed millions and millions to be happy.
Starting point is 01:48:08 She needed to live in a big old mansion, the kind she used to clean toilets in and Park City. Well, how fucking happy is she now? Guessing in prison, she has to clean her own toilet. And the square footage and accommodations, a little less stellar than what she had before she decided to kill her husband. Now let's get out of this timeline.
Starting point is 01:48:25 Okay. Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely Cory Richens wanted money She wanted to date Who she wanted to date She wanted to sleep
Starting point is 01:48:43 Who she wanted to sleep with Pursue the dream she wanted to pursue And there's nothing wrong In a lot of circumstances with any of that Was it shitty how the pre-nup Seems to have been presented to her before her marriage? Yeah But what behavior
Starting point is 01:48:54 May have she exhibited That led up to that Did they really present the pre-up Right before the wedding Or did she lie about that? Was it mentioned long before And she just kept brushing it off Refusing to sign it
Starting point is 01:49:04 Even if it was present it in a terrible way. She didn't have to sign it. She didn't have to go through at the wedding. She could have walked away. Tough choice. What a choice she could have made. She didn't have to have two more kids with Eric if she didn't love him. She could have, you know, walked away. Should he have supported her business dreams? Maybe. Was it okay for her to take out a loan against a house he owned and not tell him? She had done that because he didn't support her? No, she just stole from him. And then she proved he was right not to believe in that particular dream because employing more ambition than brains put her in millions of dollars in debt in a very short amount of time.
Starting point is 01:49:37 Almost two million dollars. Between one and a half and two mean. You know, when she overextended herself, she bounced several hundred thousands of dollars worth of checks. At that point, she could have chosen to come clean, admit that she'd gotten in over her head, asked for help, but she still didn't, and said she selfishly kept having an affair with someone she had hired, kept lying to her friends, decided to kill her children's dedicated father, and then had the fucking balls to hire a ghostwriter with his money to write a book. She would claim she wrote with her kids about dealing with grief and the aftermath of his death.
Starting point is 01:50:05 That really illustrates how little of a fuck she gave about him. She was talking about and going after his money almost immediately after his death. And she's admitted no guilt nor express any remorse for her actions in the years since. When her kid's impact statements were read at her sentencing, she expressed zero emotion. But she did express emotion, I noticed,
Starting point is 01:50:23 when her brother Ronnie talked about how much he missed her in court, when he portrayed her as a victim. Then she cried. She cried for herself. Truly sociopathic shit. Sometimes I think we forget that sociopaths, those with antisocial personality disorder, frequently do express emotion
Starting point is 01:50:40 when they feel sorry for themselves. When things go wrong, they perceive themselves as the victims, even if they're the aggressor, obviously, to everybody else. They are deeply egocentric. They weep for themselves. It's empathy for others that they so badly struggle with. How did Corey become that person?
Starting point is 01:50:58 Was she born that way, or was she raised to be that person, a little to both. I wish we knew more about her mom, Lisa. Her affect also feels off to me in a few of the interviews I've watched of her. I think there's only a few out there. She still has not been charged with anything relating to Eric or to her former romantic partner's death. But in my gut, I think she's probably also a killer,
Starting point is 01:51:17 a killer who created another killer? Just selfish fucking people. How did our species get so many of them? There's actually some interesting ideas about that out there. According to evolutionary theory, Evolution did not shape the general human population to become sociopaths. Humanity is wired, in fact, overall for deep empathy, cooperation, conditions that have been essential for our survival. However, sociopathy, antisocial personality disorder again persists in a very small percentage of the population as an evolutionary conditional strategy that exploits cooperative networks for individual survival, gain, and reproduction.
Starting point is 01:51:51 A small group of people cheat and take advantage of the kindness of others to enrich themselves and then never repaying. that kindness or paid forward. That small percentage of the population enjoys, where they don't get caught and punished, something called the free rider advantage. Because the vast majority of humans are cooperative, altruistic, and trusting, they leave themselves vulnerable to exploitation by this small percentage of free riders, these fucking grifters. A minority of individuals utilizing manipulation and deceit without emotional restraint can secure a lot of resources, status, and mating opportunities, without actually contributing to the group, right? These pieces of shit.
Starting point is 01:52:31 How about that? Do any people come to mind? When you hear all this, I can think of many. Will there ever be a bunch of these people? According to evolutionary theory, not at the same time. Why there won't be is explained by something called the rarity constraint. This free fucking ride, cheating, selfish, shortcut strategy is only viable of sociopaths remain relatively rare, usually estimated at 1% to 3% of the population.
Starting point is 01:52:56 if they were to become too numerous, the social fabric of society overall would collapse. There would not be enough trusting people left for them to exploit, right? Too many exploiters, not enough prey. It's like having too many hawks, not enough mice. Also keeping the percentage of sociopaths small is the rest of us evolving to stop them, right? We cooperative humans can adapt by learning how to detect and isolate these fuckers, these cheaters, put these motherfuckers in prison cells whenever possible.
Starting point is 01:53:25 I think that's partially why some of these stories The part where they go to prison forever Or to death throw is so satisfying Right, the rest of us see so many of these pricks Just get away with their bullshit so often Some of them enormously wealthy and powerful And famous public figures You know, it can feel like we're the stupid ones sometimes
Starting point is 01:53:44 Why are we trying to play by the rules When these cheaters just fucking skip the line, they just get ahead It can feel like there's no justice in the world But there is never enough but always some And when somebody like Corey Ridge gets caught and locked up, I think it makes the rest of us feel like maybe there's still hope that some of the Corey-type people we know in the world might get taken down someday as well. That there's nobility and not being one of these pieces of shit.
Starting point is 01:54:08 That it's a good thing in many instances to color inside the lines, play by the rules, try to make your mark in the world without fucking over everybody around you. Time now for the takeaways. Time shock. Top five takeaways. Number one, in the early morning hours of March 4th, 2022, 39-year-old Eric Richens was found cold and unresponsive in the bedroom of his home in Francis, Utah. His wife, Corey, called 911.
Starting point is 01:54:36 After a while, he was pronounced dead. After that, initial responders suspected a brain-angerism. But when toxicology results came back, they showed five times a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system. And it was illicitly manufactured fentanyl. Street stuff. The kind that comes from drug cartels, not from a medical setting. number two lacking any substantial evidence the prosecution's case rests on three circumstantial pillars motive means and opportunity regarding motive cody richon or cori richens was the time of eric's death facing total and imminent financial collapse her real estate company carry richon's realty was losing money fasts and her net worth on the day eric died was around uh negative one point six million uh regarding means the prosecutor star witness carman lobber the richon's housekeeper and a known drug user and dealer, testified that Corey had asked her on multiple occasions to source pills for an
Starting point is 01:55:26 investor with a bad back. And then on opportunity, Corey was the last person with Eric before he died. She made him a drink that night, and the glass was never tested. Number three, in September of 2023, four months after her arrest, a six-page letter was found tucked inside an LSAP prep book during a routine sweep of Corey's jail cell. Written in Corey's hand, addressed to her mother, Lisa, but never sent. At the top of the first page, in large letters, walk the dog. But take vague notes, so you remember. What followed was a detailed set of instructions telling her mom to meet privately with her brother and coach him to tell Corey's lawyer a very specific story, that a year before Eric died, he and Eric talked about Eric getting pain pills and fentanyl from workers
Starting point is 01:56:05 at a ranch in Mexico, hide them in an allergy bottle in his work truck, and keeping it all from Corey. Corey maintained this was just a passage from a mystery novel she was writing, uh-huh. Prosecution disagreed, pointing to the fact that Corey had literally wrote, reword this however he needs to make the point. Number four, after Eric died, Corey Richens acquired a second phone. At some point, she deleted its search history and then forensic software analysts recovered it. Here is a partial list of what came back. How long it takes for life insurance to pay out?
Starting point is 01:56:35 Whether a manner of death on a death certificate can be changed after the fact, whether police can force you to take a lie detector test, whether law enforcement can recover deleted messages. If someone is poisoned, what does it go down on the death certificate has? The definition of white color crime. luxury prisons for the rich in America and she also read an article titled Cause of Death usually does not impact life insurance
Starting point is 01:56:55 payment. The defense argued this is all consistent with somebody who just found out they were a murder suspect. And the number five new info. If you don't already hate Corey Richens, maybe the following info will change your mind. Three social workers were the ones who read victim impact statements
Starting point is 01:57:11 on behalf of her and Eric's three kids. Each son asked the court to sentence their mother to life in prison as we went over. I already referenced that. But here's some additional info. one of the boys described being locked in his room by Corey for long periods of time with his older brother Ashton sliding him food under the door. Another described Corey forcing them to watch videos of kids starving in war zones after they refused to eat some undercooked lasagna.
Starting point is 01:57:34 The boys described a household where animals suffered regularly and died through neglect, where the family dog was not allowed outside very often, ignored when it did need to go out, when it then pissed and shit indoors. What was it supposed to do? It was punished by Corey hitting the dog in the head as hard as shit. she could. Corey also would not let the boys bring in their new kitten inside the garage for safety overnight, and then it was eaten by raccoons. Corey would not let them turn on some heater lamps for their
Starting point is 01:58:00 chickens and rabbits, and overnight they froze to death. The family's goats nearly star because Corey bought them moldy hay to eat also didn't give them very much water. Seems that all that stuff took place after Eric's murder when Corey was not allowing Eric's family, including Papa Eugene, who the boys loved dearly to see them hardly ever, but stating that she was open, you know, you know, to them seeing him a lot more if they would hand the trust over to her. One of the boys wrote that when someone mentioned Corey's name now, it made him feel hateful and ashamed. He said he was scared that somebody from Corey's side of the family would come to his school and take him.
Starting point is 01:58:33 He said that once she was gone for good, he would feel happy, safer, and able to trust people again. All three asked clearly and without ambiguity for their mother to go to prison forever. What kind of mom do you have to be to get that response from your? kids. A fucking monster. Time suck. Top five takeaways. Death before divorce, the Corey Richens case has been sucked. Thank you to the bad magic productions
Starting point is 01:59:03 team for helping make and time suck. Thanks to Queen of Bad Magic, Lindsay Cummins. Thanks to Logan Keith helping to publishes his episode and designing merch for the store at badmagic productions.com. Thank you to Laura Woods for her research. Also thanks to the Allseen Eyes moderating the cult of the curious private Facebook page. The Mod Squad making sure Discord keeps running smooth and everybody over on the TimeSuck and Bad Magic Sub credits.
Starting point is 01:59:25 And now let's head on over to this week's Time Sucker updates. Get your Time Sucker updates. First up from Proud Papa Sucker, Alfonso Ruiz, who wrote him with some patriotic love for his badass daughter in a message with the subject line of boot camp. Hi, Master Sucker. My name is Alfonso, and I work for a state police agency where I inspect school buses on the eastern side of our state. I spent many hours on the road, and your podcast has been a wonderful companion through the long drives across our state's canyons, forests, and deserts. I especially enjoyed listening to the serial killer episodes during my four-hour drives to the Academy in Sheldon. Recently, the podcast has taken on a deeper meaning for me. My 18-year-old daughter left for Navy boot camp on June 30th.
Starting point is 02:00:10 And thanks for the kind of words, by the way. While we are incredibly proud, it has been a difficult adjustment, and my wife has experienced the reality of empty nest depression. Your recent episode about Fort Hood really impacted me. Having a daughter in boot camp made me tear. up thinking about the pain and frustration those parents faced while fighting for justice. I want to thank you for giving a voice to those who went quiet and for keeping me company during this challenging and lonely time without my daughter. If possible, could you please give a shout out to my wife and my 13-year-old daughter for holding down the fort and taking
Starting point is 02:00:36 care of our other two daughters, ages 6 and 7. I love them all so much, and they are the reason I do what I do. Thank you again for everything in long-lived Triple M, Hafonzo. Oh, Afonzo, man, I love that you love your family so much. And yeah, definitely a big shout out to your wife and your third-in-old daughter and just your whole fan. And yeah, man, my first kid leaving the house was hard. Starting to dread my last one leaving the house, two in a few months. You know, you love them so much. Even in moments when they drive you crazy.
Starting point is 02:01:04 I feel bad for your wife, you know, missing her so deeply. It does get a little better in time. But, you know, it's still hard when they're gone. But, you know, the pain is a sign of being a good parent, right? You know, what kind of father or mother would you be if they left? And you were just like, eh, just kind of shrugged, went on with your day. Ah, fuck it. Didn't care.
Starting point is 02:01:20 So I don't know, there's a beauty in that. And thank God for modern technology and the ability to communicate with them in so many ways now. And then regarding your daughter in boot camp, you know, first off, I just want to thank her for her service. And second, you know, I hope, you know, not to scare her, but like I hope you help empower her with facts, right? Communicate the dangers of just being a young woman in the world, which you probably already do, right? But especially when you're around a lot of guys. There's a lot of Facebook groups for the parents of women in the military. I like that Navy sexual assault prevention and response training is,
Starting point is 02:01:50 now mandatory for all service members. I guess it's been for quite some time. I'm a big fan of Krov Maga. MMA classes. Would love to take them with my daughter here soon, right? I don't know if you'll, I know she'll learn stuff in boot camp, but if you get a chance to, you know, take some self-defense classes with her,
Starting point is 02:02:06 that'll be helpful. You know, it's hard to be that. You want to follow your kids around, protect them everywhere, but you can't, but you can share a lot of info with them and try and teach them to be as street smart as possible and be realistic about the world around them. All that said,
Starting point is 02:02:20 overwhelming odds are your daughter is going to be fine. She's going to kick ass. She's going to do great. And she's going to have a fucking amazing time in the service. I hope she knows how proud of her. Her dad is keeping a good dude. Yeah, thanks, Alponso. Next up from another good dad sack.
Starting point is 02:02:36 An anonymous one who wrote it with a subject line of abuser. Hey, Dan, I've been listening to the podcast since 2019 and thoroughly enjoyed the dark humor in the hours of entertainment. I've been a firefighter paramedic. Oh, thank you. For well over 20 years. build and maintain mountain bike trails and my days off. That's cool. End up listening to Time Suck often while weed whacking or doing dirt work on the trail.
Starting point is 02:02:57 While catching up on episodes the last couple of weeks, I was listening to the Nova Scotia 13 hours of terror and something caught my attention. You asked, why do all these guys end up hating their mother or women instead of their father slash abuser? I instantly thought, I can understand. Well, long story. Well, yeah, yeah, long story long. I grew up with a father who was a constant negative reinforcer and was sometimes physically abusive, but for sure was a mental abuser.
Starting point is 02:03:20 He would constantly belittle. Make fun of anything you did or we're trying to do. He would tell you that you were not good enough, and if you ever did get an A in school or did well in a sport or activities, then there was something wrong with the teacher, something wrong with the coach, etc. They didn't know how dumb you were,
Starting point is 02:03:34 how little you knew. The kind of guy that would shoot your dog when you were at a friend's sleepover because he thought you didn't take care of it, would wake you at 5 a.m. It would work you like a dog in the woods till dark and then tell you that playing or doing fun stuff like other kids was doing
Starting point is 02:03:47 was for morons and fools. He would mentally break any young person so they would always do things his way or no way, along with the threat of real physical punishment if he didn't. Ironically, though, he was also a kind of guy that everybody loved at gatherings. My brother always said it. It was better to be his friend than his family.
Starting point is 02:04:03 We always wanted to have friends over or to go places because he was a different guy, a fun person who had a good time. When they left, the monster came out, when he took out all of his anger and whatever was going on with him on his family. I remember many, many times riding in the car with my mom and asking her why dad was the way he was. She would always console us and tell us things
Starting point is 02:04:21 we're going to get better, that she would talk to him. She was the ally. She was the one you could really talk to. Mom was the one who was going to make it better, the safe space for a lack of a better term. But then as you get older, you realize she was never making things better.
Starting point is 02:04:32 She was probably trying to keep this guy from being a nut job, was just sympathizing with you. Well, I don't hate my mom or women. I can empathize and have a sense of understanding as to your question. Why didn't mom do more? Why didn't she leave?
Starting point is 02:04:45 Why did she keep tolerating this guy, mentally abusing her and her children. Those answers are complex and layered. Who knows? All I know is that for years I struggled with pent-up rage that was almost always directed at my father or the constant voice in my head that was telling me I'm an idiot and need to work harder.
Starting point is 02:05:00 Not good enough. He met my college science instructor who told him I was one of the best students she'd ever had. I thanked her and my dad smiled. We got in the vehicle and he laughed and said, that lady thinks you're smart? She must be a fucking idiot. So if your mom is dealing with a husband or dad like that
Starting point is 02:05:16 and the kids are telling you please do something. Please get some help for yourself and your kids. Anyways, there's a hundred more stories like that. I have since become a father of four and found a wife with a positive outlook on life and someone who uses positive reinforcement. What a breath of fresh air. I'm sad to say at times I do act like my father,
Starting point is 02:05:33 but God damn it, I'm trying every day to not be the bad parts of that guy. Keep on sucking. Loyalist's term. Well, thanks for an honest message. Yeah, you know, I guess I probably should have asked, why don't those guys hate both their parents? the abuser and the one who failed to protect them from the abuser because there are legitimate grounds to be enraged at both.
Starting point is 02:05:54 I mean, I do feel much more sympathetic towards the person not protecting from the abuser who is also being abused, but isn't your most important duty as a parent to protect your kids? Even if it comes with risk towards your own safety. The hotline.org is a good website for people looking to get out of violent situations, violent homes. There's a phone number two, one,
Starting point is 02:06:16 888799 safe, but it might be safe to go online and chat via typing and then clear your browser history. They can connect you with local shelters, attorneys, financial aid, so much more. But yeah, dads and moms, do not give up and protecting your kids if you want to break the cycle of abuse, be brave. Those kids' lives might depend on it and their spirits certainly do. And then one more message sent in to Bojangles at timesuckpodcast.com from an anonymous sucker who's put in an awkward as hell situation. They sent in a message with an intriguing subject line of I didn't know he was serious about white power Hey Sockmaster, Benefances 2020
Starting point is 02:06:53 I've listened to you on my way to clean it up some crime scenes That's a story for another day Please keep my last name out of this I apologize for the length in advance This one is a fucking doozy I never thought I'd actually have to deal with it Over the 4th July weekend my wife and I Along with some friends went down to Jacksonville
Starting point is 02:07:08 To visit her friends Deanna and George They lived down there for about a year And we were excited to visit them for the first time We've been unsure of George for a while. He's over 10 years older than Diana, has always been kind of annoying, one of those drunks where you're not sure what he'll say or do who constantly challenges people to arm wrestling matches,
Starting point is 02:07:24 but we always shrugged and said, yeah, he's annoying, but he really loves Deanna so we can deal. Friday night of the trip went off without a hitch, so much fun, great food, great weather, drinks flowing, zero complaints. Saturday, the 4th July, was drastically different. George started drinking and just never stopped. For 12 hours straight, he got progressively more fucked up
Starting point is 02:07:42 and weirder by the hour. He started getting annoyed with my wife and me because our big cooler scraped against his wall a bit. Why for to patch it up? It was met with silence. We brushed it off, got ready to go see fireworks downtown. I love the fourth. One of my favorite parts is seeing people of every color, religion, shape, size, and orientation coming together to watch the sky light up. To me, it's the best representation of the U.S., a melting pot of people, just enjoying the show.
Starting point is 02:08:06 Well, I did not realize George was not a fan of this. Prior to the fireworks, we were at a bar, grabbing drinks and dinner. We got our drinks and wanted to make a toast. and we agreed to toast to America's birthday. We clink glasses and George immediately shouted, White Power. Holy fuck. Now, I am a six-foot-three-inch,
Starting point is 02:08:24 300-pound pale white guy. I'm talking milk-white. Not a great look to have that shouted when I'm in everyone's direct line of vision. So I immediately said, nope, not that, shutting that shit down. I was trying to close down what I assume was a highly unfunny joke.
Starting point is 02:08:38 I couldn't have been more wrong. We tried to keep enjoying ourselves until we started to hear George shouting at Deanna demanding an apology. My wife took Deanna to the bathroom, asked why he was so mad at her. Turns out we had it backwards. Deanna told my wife that George was furious
Starting point is 02:08:51 and wanted an apology from me for denouncing white supremacy. I was stunned. I genuinely didn't realize he was serious. At that point, I went from confused to furious. I walked from table to the bar thinking fuck that and fuck him. Meanwhile, George is telling everyone in the bar
Starting point is 02:09:06 that I told him to shut the fuck up and is actively causing a scene. Honestly, I wish I had said it. He sucks. Deanna eventually came up to apologize to me. I told her I had no idea he was actually a white supremacist and apologized that she had to deal with that kind of baggage. But in what fucking universe am I going to apologize for opposing white power?
Starting point is 02:09:23 Once again, fuck that and fuck him. I've never had to deal with an open, proud racist in a while before. I still can't believe I had to genuinely denounce white supremacy at a 4th July dinner, but I'll do it again in a heartbeat. Fuck George. Go team meat sack. Fuck white supremacists. Keep on sucking.
Starting point is 02:09:39 Three to five stars wouldn't change a thing. Well, good on you, anonymous team meet Sacks, sucker, for not just going along with it, right? Worryed about offending him. Yeah, this shit is so fucking uncomfortable, this kind of stuff. My wife and I recently had talks about how, no matter who it is, close family member, business person, whatever, if they say certain shit, we're saying something back and not caring how that affects a relationship. Not necessarily white, but not even to that degree, but other things, you know, they're just mad at us. The weekend after the fourth, we're out with friends drinking. One of them said something.
Starting point is 02:10:09 I just wasn't going to let slide, called him out on it. Led to a 15 minute, pretty intense discussion that definitely got awkward at times for some people, but productive. I actually kind of like awkward conversation sometimes. And after we got home, Lindsay and I said, if that had gone the other way, we wouldn't have given a fuck. And we would have been cool with never hanging out with them again. We just don't have tolerance for stupid shit anymore. We have so many good people in our lives. We have so many ideals that are thoroughly thought through that we care about for very good reasons.
Starting point is 02:10:38 And we're just fucking done tolerating someone. people's dumb shit. You know, there's better friends to be made if the ones you have start to suck. And also, you know, some times people just need a fucking wake-up call. They don't realize how stupid they're being. And maybe if they get one, they'll change their behavior. You know, if that guy you called out runs into that a bunch more times, well, maybe he'll get tired of being shamed, maybe do a bit of introspection and pull his head out of his ass. Or maybe at the very least, your friend will leave his dumb ass and not get dragged down with him. I think the more of us who call out dumb fuckery in various ways, it will bend the world more towards how we want it to be.
Starting point is 02:11:13 And it's important to do because the ignorant fucking assholes, oh, they never have a problem trying to bend the world in their direction. Dumb, loud, and opinionated. Those three things go together far too often. And it's up to the rest of us to get our hands dirty and marginalize those voices that don't deserve to be heard. Plenty of voices should be marginalized because they're fucking ignorant. good job dude
Starting point is 02:11:38 and now even though I thought about closing out that rap by saying and you know white power just because it would be absurd I'm not gonna do that okay I don't need that sound bite edited out of context okay certainly not when I look like if he saw me without a shirt like I could play an Aryan nation's prison gang member okay okay okay
Starting point is 02:11:55 next time suckers I needed that we all did thank you for listening to another bad magic productions podcast be sure and rate and reviewed time sick if you haven't already please don't kill your spouse and their sleep for life insurance money this week
Starting point is 02:12:13 and don't steal for them either just like try not to be a fucking piece of shit this week okay be a good herd member not a shifty free rider and keep on sucking did you guys know a new Michael McDonald's track
Starting point is 02:12:42 came out this year actually Keith Urban released a yacht rock album titled Flow State June 12th not that long ago 10 covers of classic yacht rock songs, but also one new one. A duet with none other than Michael motherfucker McDonald called We Go Back, and you know what? He still got it.
Starting point is 02:13:02 Check out a little taste. It's really good. I was young and dumb and I'm not smiling here stuff like this

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