Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 54 - Heaven's Gate UFO Cult

Episode Date: September 25, 2017

What led 39 people to kill themselves in a desperate attempt to board a spaceship in 1997? Why did anyone believe that Marshall Applewhite, a former choir director, was the Second Coming of Christ, and that he would fly his faithful to Heaven via a spaceship that was hiding behind the Hale-Bopp comet? So many questions in this episode and not all of them have answers. Enjoy the strange, strange ride that is the Heaven's Gate Timesuck. This episode of Timesuck is sponsored by Felipe Esparza's new one hour HBO special, Translate This, airing on HBO and HBO Latino, Saturday, September 30th, at 10PM. Please rate and subscribe and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG, @timesuckpodcast on Twitter, and www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Merch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ Want to try out Discord!?! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact

Just over 20 years ago, a payphone caller claimed dozens of people had committed suicide at a Mediterranean-style villa in the Gilded San Diego suburb of Rancho Santa Fe. Two hours later, Sheriff's Deputy Robert Brunk crept into the mansion and found a macabre scene of ritualized death. Investigators would count 39 corpses, 21 women, 18 men, ranging in age from 26 to 72. It was the largest mass suicide ever committed on US soil. Each body light out in a bed clad in black sweatpants, black button down, tunics, and out of the box Nike Decay jogging shoes. Each torso and shorn head enshrouded by a square of deep purple fabric, each corpse had exactly $5.75 in their pocket. And everyone wore a trekky inspired arm patch that read,

Heaven's Gate, a way team. Computers in the mansion flashed a starship enterprise style red alert. What the fuck? How did this happen? Why did they do it? What led 39 people to kill themselves in a desperate attempt to board a spaceship? If you don't know, you're about to find out. And if you already know, you're about to realize

there was some info you probably missed. Time to go full alien, full cult, full crazy in this heaven's gate, comments tale and space Jesus edition of Time Suck. You're the state to time suck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.'m Nimrod and Happy Monday, you deeply inquisitive, succumbic, suck basis. What's up, person who actually enjoys a little learning? You weirdo? Why don't you just read a tabloid and gossip about the reality story, Flavor of the Month? Huh?

Why don't you do that? Why don't you just listen to some news network talking heads vomit up some pre-formed narratives designed less to inform you and more to sell commercials by playing to a specific target demographic. What the fuck is wrong with you? Let your eyes glass over already and give up on life. Get in line. Do what you're told. No? Comments aka the suck master aka master sucker aka lord suck aka stir sucks a lot aka ruler of the third kingdom Profit of Nimrod and all the other weird and hilarious shit you guys call me when you send in your emails and messages I love it today's episode is a wild ride as you would expect with the suicide cult Appreciate you let and work wait a bit to listen to it. Huge thanks to the Lily Willies. I almost called you the Lily Willies.

That would be interesting. Huge thanks to the Lily Twins, Sarah and Rebecca Reba, OG members of the Bojangles Research Team for fucking crushing the initial research of this episode. So nice what I'm doing, my own digging, to know it matches up with what somebody else has found. Somebody else I trust. So nice to be presented with awesome angles

to expand on and great info. I may have never found on my own you to kill it Thanks for all the emails to holy shit you guys have been firing those emails in I really thought I was gonna catch up this week But my travel schedule has been exhausting Opened up for Brian Regan all over down south and I know I didn't mention that anywhere And here's why my my shoulders with Brian are the only ones I don't advertise, and I love him so much. He's such a funny dude, such a great dude. And I don't advertise because at respect to his audience

and to him, I do a super clean show, like the cleanest of clean shows, which you've ever seen me live, not normally the case, I like to get some filth in there. I personally enjoy the filth very much. So I just don't want anyone coming out to see me and then be disappointed that they didn't see the normal

all rated show that I typically do. That's the only reason I don't mention it. I only do a few weekends a year with him. He's one of my favorite people in comedy. So fun to watch him do his thing. I learned something about stand-up each time with him. I wasn't able to get back to him. He had to get this fucking game.

I like to sell them, but not all the ones I wanted to. We're doing a different city each night trying to keep my research going The suck the suck just continues Right never gives up. I love it And you guys thank you so much with your with your ratings too, which is also keeping busy You know you guys have been fucking me up with those iTunes ratings I let Salem which trial up the bonus episode the 900 review bonus episode It just came out like 10 days ago and and now we're already over 1000 reviews.

You guys are trying to fucking kill me. So the suck will suck itself for the 1000s, the 1000 review bonus episode, not this coming Friday, but Friday, October 6th. I'm going on a little family trip this week and I just can't get it done in time. So it'll be one week delayed. Sorry about that, but on the sixth,

some extra Friday suck with the history of time suck itself, the history of me. And the night before the six, I'll be doing the first live time suck show in the Hollywood improv in Hollywood, California, on the night of October 5th. So I hope you think there's a few tickets left. Stand up show with the same improv on October 6th,

with the guys from Small Town Murder and Crime in Sports. It's gonna be fantastic. Helium Comedy Club in Portland, Oregon, October 12th, 13th, 14th, Parler Live in Bellevue, Washington, one night only, October 15th. Banana's Comedy Club in Hasbrook Heights, New Jersey, October 21st, and much more coming up. Check the episode description for times and ticket links.

Updates to previous episodes and sneak peek at next week's episode at the end of this podcast. All aboard, Heaven's Gate right now. [♪ INTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Okay, so Heaven's Gate, the cult associated with the bug-eyed maniac, Marshal Apple White, a dude who looks like a picture,

like, it looks like his picture, like a picture of his smiling face, should just be in the dictionary next to cult leader, right? Like the stereotypical cult leader. I actually had a bumper sticker of his face on my truck in college with the words all aboard next to it. I guess I've always loved some inappropriate humor.

In the tutorial videos, he created that would be uploaded online and will now live forever in cyberspace. He has some of the craziest eyes I've ever, and I know I have crazy eyes. He has some of the craziest eyes I've ever seen, like right up there with Rasputin. Him and Rasputin, a staring contest, would be fucking epic. And before we get into the story of his life, find out, you know, when he created his cold, how it evolved. Let's twist the format around today.

Let's start off with checking in with what the internet has to say about him. Get some some some light fun in there with some idiots of the internet. Idiots, I'll be in through that. Yes, a little twist on today's idiots of the internet. Marshall Appelwite himself, he is the idiot of the internet. A lot of his teachings exist on YouTube and reading the comments beneath them actually made me feel really good to be human being this week. Right, like all these comments that I'm listening right now are under a video if you want to watch it titled, Heaven's Gate Cult Initiation Tape Part One.

It is just amazing, just the crazy gibberish coming out of his mouth. Regarding his photogenically uber intense insanity stare, user, I don't even know how to say this word, AKHENATN. I don't know if that's a made-up word or someone's actual name. Akinatin sales comments. This guy would whoop ass in a staring contest. That's for sure. Yeah, that's right. he's agreed, agreed, total domination. User trending hot was alarmed by his stare as well, writing, motherfucker don't blink, red flag right there. And then user Steve Firth adds to this with,

it does say in the Bible that the Son of God only blinked 142 times in his whole life. I think this guy looks shit. Oh, that is in reference to, as you'll find out, he claimed to be this son of God. He claimed to be Jesus come back. No blinking, man. Really is a red flag, isn't it? You ever talked to somebody who makes way too much eye contact with you? Like intense, like intense staring contest eye contact and they don't seem to blink. It is extremely unnerving. Like, I can't handle it.

Makes my skin crawl. Like, not good to be like, shifty eyed and afraid to make eye contact. You know, that person can kind of be a little weird too. When they just like, we'll never look you in the eye, there's always like, looking off to the side, looking above you. I mean, that's odd for sure.

But also, super odd to just go power stare, full speed ahead 24-7. And that's what Apple White was, man. Just zero chill in martial app, Apple speed ahead 24, seven. And that's what Apple white was, man, just zero chill in Marshall Apple white, just zero chill. A user harp his fizz offers another angle on why his stare is so disconcerting, writing, I'm distracted by the two caterpillars he's using his eyebrows. It really does make his stare worse. It's just framed so harshly with his, with his,

you know, chia pet, he's got rest and above his eyeballs. These big, bushy eyebrows, uh, user, uh, and by the way, if you're like, there's no, that's not cool picking on people with a bushy eyebrows. No, that's a choice. That's a choice to have bushy eyebrows. When I get my hair cut now, I get my eyebrows, uh, trimmed up as well. You know why? Cause I have, now now lately, it's been really fun. I have a couple hairs in each, a couple future old man hairs in each eyebrow

that like to just go three times as long as all the rest of the hairs. They're just rogue now. They just do what they want. They just do what they want. They're like, no man, we're gonna find a new place to live. We're gonna fucking, we're gonna project ourselves off of your head.

So, you know, I asked a lady to trim up a little bit when I get it cut, so I don't look like this looney-tune. Okay, user toxic catch up sums up his overall appearance very succinctly, and perfectly saying, this is what absolute madness looks like. Yeah, and then user perp and orange has one of maybe the funniest assessment of his overall appearance, commenting, why did they record a ball sack with big ears? Why did they record a ball sack with big ears? Why did they record a ball sack with big ears? That made me laugh so hard, because if you look at his face,

like the pictures taken him in the last few years of his life, he actually does look like a trimmed ball sack with ears. A user, the Zobey wrote what I thought was a funny, so overall comment on this video, saying, was halfway into the vid when my dad walked in, and I quickly switched to porn hub, which was much easier to explain. That's so good. That is easier to explain.

Just die. What are you doing? I was just joking off with some porn. Definitely wasn't watching cult videos. So much weird on the web today. Oh, no stupid comments at all. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. I had to find at least one dumb one. Here's a quick thread that cracked

me up. User God of monster land wrote in obviously sarcastic and absurd comment saying, this guy used to smoke crack with me down behind the 7-Eleven dumpster. He was so fucking whack. He used to eat glass bottles when he got real fucked up. He said glass was actually space food or some shit like that. I don't know where he went. Last I saw he was on a corner hooking himself for five dollars an hour. Oh well. Obviously absurd. Obviously absurd. Right? Like that has nothing to do with martial arts life. To me, it's like I see something like that. It's like yeah, that's a that's a funny absurd little story, he wrote. And I'm amazed how many people just do not understand

obvious exaggeration and absurdism, right? One of these people is user RCC games who wrote, the fact that this is about sociopaths leads me to question your statement, sorry. And then user Ferra Adashi calls out monster god of monster land just saying bull shit Bull shit you did not that in none of that happened stop it You didn't smoke crack with martiala boy. He's not sucking dick on a corner. No, he did not eat space glass

Social intelligence is a real thing I'm continually amazed by how many people don't seem to have much of it like they can be very intelligent Other ways you're looking at a good job. I'm continually amazed by how many people don't seem to have much of it. Like they can be very intelligent in other ways. You're looking at them a good job, be responsible parents, just have no concept of absurd humor. Like it just, it doesn't, they don't catch it, they don't understand it at all. I run into this a lot personally

because I love making absurd statements. Like after shows, you know, I'll sell an autograph copy of like a silly book I wrote, this, a dope bedtime story called Daddy Bear, Three Revitably to the Real World. And sometimes when people ask me how much it costs, I'll say something like a thousand dollars, it's at that $10,000, you know, some million world. And sometimes when people ask me how much it costs, I'll say something like a thousand dollars, that's a ten thousand dollars.

So you know, it's a million dollars. And almost everyone understands that I'm joking, but everyone's in a while, despite having watched me joke around on stage for an hour, just a few minutes earlier, somebody will look, just shoot me an angry look, like I'm not paying a thousand dollars for that book. What are you talking about?

No, that is way too much money for that book. And then I have to tell them, no, I know. I also think that's way too much, which is why I said it in a tone of humor. It's 20 bucks, and then they calm down. But then all of a sudden, even then sometimes, there's like, like, they're still acting like I was trying to get a scam on over them. Like, I think you were trying to get me to pay a thousand dollars for that book. People like that are the worst to hang out with.

It's still not fun, you know, I remember being around them like social settings, you know, like a friend of a friend. You know, you talk about how somebody really pissed you off and you say something like, man, I want to kill this guy. Well, that's a bit much. Whoa, murder. Yeah, it is a bit much. Of course, it's a bit much.

It was a fucking crazy, example of hyperbole, a figure of speech. I don't actually want to murder that kind of what I kind of do, but I won't because I get caught, but I don't really, kind of. Maybe I do, but I don't. You just go grab your computer, person who doesn't understand exaggeration,

and you get back to being on the internet. The Internet. The Internet. The Internet. The Internet. The Internet. Okay, so now we've had a little bit of fun It is the intro that gets from that. Okay, so now we've had a little bit of fun at Marshall's expense. Let's learn why it's okay to mock him.

Let's learn a lot about this guy. Did he always seem crazy? Was he just born, a wild-eyed human, ranting and raving about UFOs? He just popped out of his mom's vagina. Like he's already, he's kicked off the staring contest, second one Yeah, UFOs, I'm Jesus come back No, no yet pretty ho hum start to life as most cult leaders seem to have had and let's check in with it Let's examine it. Let's start at the beginning with the time sub timeline

Shrap on those boots soldier, we're marching down a time sub timeline. Marshall Herf, Apple White Jr. Marshall Herf Apple White Jr. was born on May 17th, 1931. Damn it, we shared the same birthday. I also, in my birthday birthday is May 17th. And we both have crazy eyes. And we're both fascinated with religion. No, there may be a cult in my future. Hey, I'm not.

There is a cult right now, the cult of the curious. There's definitely a cult in Marshall's future. Marshall was born in spur Texas, a little town of about 2,000 people back in 1931. And around 1,000 now, son of a bitch. We're both born in tiny towns. I do not like how much I haven't come with this wacky doodle so far.

In addition to, you know, Marshall, being from Spur, former drag racer and member of the Motorsports Hall of Fame, Raymond Beedle is from Spur as his screenwriter, Aaron Latham, the man who wrote Urban Cowboy, John Travolta's character in that movie is from Spur. Red McCombs is Spur's mogul who owned both of San Antonio Spurs and the NFL's that movie is from Spur. Red McCombs, a sports mogul who owned both the San Antonio Spurs and the NFL's Minnesota Vikings is from Spur.

A lot of people coming out of this little town. Spur is 73 miles from Lubbock. It's at the forefront of America's tiny house revolution, guys, seriously. That's what their website claims. Spur has 70 lots for sale right now, where you can move your tiny house, your prefabricated tiny house

onto this little tiny lot. It's a pre-made home, about 600 square feet is what a tiny house is, and you can live a tiny life in a tiny Texas town. So, if not being able to move around much when you're at home and then not having many places to go when you leave home, sounds like your cup of tea, then you get your ass to spur. Okay? Marshall grew up in a normal-sized house from all I can tell. I had two older sisters, Louise and Jane, and a brother who was nine years younger, John. An Apple White's father was a Presbyterian minister who started new churches and moved from place to place in Texas about every three years. So I guess he didn't stay in spur for two...

God damn it. I also left my hometown in Riggins, Idaho after a few years, but I came back. I came back to Riggins. Marshall did not go back to Spur. Okay, okay. It's just still getting a little irritated about how similar we are. After bouncing around a few other small South Texas towns, Marshall ended up in Corpus Christie by the time he was in high school, a coastal Texas city whose name is Latin for

body of Christ. So you know, fairly religious place. A lot of famous people from Corpus Christi, including actress Eva Longoria, Lou Diamond Phillips, oh Lou Diamond Phillips, man, there's some of my childhood, Jose Chavez, and young guns baby, young guns. I'll be known the truth. I'm going out in a blaze glory. Lord, I never droop first, but I droop first blood. I'm no one son. Call me young gun.

Classic Bon Jovi, sporting a rock hard respection right now. I was Bon Jovi when I liked him before he was fucking shown up in sitcoms. While attending high school, Marshall began to shift focus from religion to music. When he was a little kid, he wanted to be a preacher like his dad to shift focus from religion to music. When he was a little kid, he wanted to be a preacher like his dad and now he wanted to sing.

He joined the school choir like all future cult members do. It's uncanny, Charles Manson, Jim Jones, David Kuresh, Marshall Apple White, all former choir members. So if choir people have always skived you out a little bit, well you know what, you were right to be skived out. You always trust your gut. No, there's no association between cult members in choir But that would be fantastic if there was 1950 age 19 Apple White and rolls in Austin College in pursues of degree in music and also it is father's urging

studies pre-theology Which I was which I didn't understand at first according to literature I found on other universities websites as scholastic emphasis in pre-theology prepares students to enter professional schools of religion, like Divinity schools, seminaries, theological schools. Just gets y'all warmed up. These professional schools prepare the student for a variety of careers,

such as ministry, religious education, religious work with youth and others. And a student in this program also declares a separate major. I thought for a second pre-theology was gonna be like studying things that happened before there was religion, like previous to theology existing.

But I guess that wouldn't make a lot of sense, right? Like before religion there wasn't civilization. You know, what would you study? Just a bunch of dudes in a room, just saying stuff like, so people just grunted and made fire and ate raw meat as far as we know. We don't have any records, so it's hard to say. Anyone else have anything add to the pre-theology discussion today?

Do you think people farted in the days before theology? Yeah, that's good. I don't see why not, I don't see why not, but we don't have any records, so it's hard to say. What about dance? Do you think people danced in the days before theology? Sure, sure, I think probably. But again, we don't have any records of anything,

so it's hard to say. What about masturbation? Do you think people jerking it in the days before theology? That's blasphemy, absolutely not. 1954, Apple White ended up graduating with a degree in voice and education. He was drafted in the U.S. Army. He was stationed in Salzburg, Austria, and then White Sands, New Mexico. And he became a signal core instructor.

Now, the signal core is a military communication division. According to the Army's own website, they automate, transmit, and receive voice and data information to keep the army informed and ready to respond. Now during the Korean War, communications largely revolved around radio transmission, so I'm guessing that's what he worked on. Maybe that's where he first started, you know, talking aliens. He's about getting them on the radio, getting them on the horn. Right? Here in some spaceship noise out there. I don't know, who knows? martial law was drafted a year after the conflict phase of the Korean War ended so he didn't go to Korea didn't see action while in the service.

And according to a sister he was honorably discharged at the rank of sergeant in 1956 after two years of service. So 1956 after he discharged Apple White becomes a college music teacher to begin with a lengthy musical career. He played starry he would go on to play starry roles in stage musicals in Colorado and Texas. He'd be the choir director at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Houston, saying 15 roles with the Houston Grand Opera. He taught music at the University of Alabama in the early 60s, married Anne Francis Pierce in a Presbyterian Church, had a son named Mark, born in 1957, and a daughter named Lane Anne, but known as Mary, born in 1959. Now, a lot of rumors and various reports about this period of Marshall's life.

He seemed to be quite the character. He took trips, apparently to New York, tried to break into Broadway in 1960 and 1961, get into some musicals there, but he wasn't able to get a footing in the industry. Which, you know, it was tough. I mean, he had a family back in Houston. You know, so that made that tricky.

God damn it. I have two young kids. I have a son and daughter, and I've been kicking around and showbiz. More similarities. It's like, oh, too similar to Marshall. Marshall was a talented operatic singer. I used to sing opera for several years down in Australia. That's not true.

No, I wish that was true right now. That'd be a weird thing just to all of a sudden, just nobody knew that for two years I was on the opera circuit in Australia. Not that there is one down there. I don't even know where I pulled that wire associated with that country. You know, I do know why, because in my brain, I know so little about opera.

When I think of opera, I think of this Sydney Opera House. I'm pretty sure it's a real place. Beautiful building. Anyway, Marshall had a bright big baritone, flawless diction, had a true talent for musicals and theater. I was in banding college and we played a bunch of parties and I sang for them. So, fuck, he continues. That theater training undoubtedly helped prepare him for the role of cold leader, got to have some decent acting skills, right? Pulled out roll off. By the late 1960s, he began to lead quite the double life and some circles, Mr. White was the dashing man about town, never happier than Nierro, a well off well dressed woman on his

arm. So he had his like, you know, supposed at these mistresses on the side, but then also supposedly he was firmly rooted in the gay community and the Montrose section of the city and had a long time gay lover. So yeah, he was a busy dude. 1968, he divorces his wife. I've also been divorced. Kind of was the same fucking person. Other than the homosexual secret double life. I have not had that life. Of course, if I did have that life, if I was leading it now, it's not like I'd tell you, you know, because it's secret. But I don't. But it would be a secret if I did, so you wouldn't know. But I don't.

But it would be a secret. Just before he was dismissed from his job at the University of St. Thomas in 1970, Marshall supposedly had a love affair with a wealthy young woman, and a fair that had been halted by her disapproving family, the family threatened Marshall to stay away from her. And according to the threats, we're pretty serious. According to one of Mr. Apple White's friends at the time who insisted on anonymity in an interview, everyone was concerned for Marshall's safety. However, the Washington Post and New York Times also published allegations to Marshall White, or Marshall Apple White, was fired from his job in 1970 as a music professor at the University of St. Thomas in Houston after school administrators learned he had an affair with a male student. So maybe an affair with some

lady, maybe an affair with some dude, probably affairs with both. A lot of stuff I'm sure never made into articles or books. It was a wild time. In 1967, it was a summer of love, and this was all the courage during the hippie counterculture revolution in those years. Really, Marshall's actions were not entirely out of line with cultural countercultural norms. He was an experiment. A lot of people were. 1972, Marshall meets the future code leader of Heavansgate, Bonnie, Bonnie Lou Traustale's nettles. Marshall would later claim he met her at a psychiatric hospital where he had checked himself into the cured of homosexual urges, according to a report in the Washington Post.

Bonnie was a nurse and he claimed she worked there. However, her daughter, Bonnie's daughter, would later claim they met at a local theater's drama school. Marshall supposedly did spend time in a psychiatric facility to press the shame and suddenly hearing voices, Apple White had asked to be cured of his homosexual desires according to James Lewis, the author of a book on UFO cults, a UFO cults, there we go, Robert Balch sociologist at the University of Montana and a heaven's gate expert, said that Marshall confided to at least one of his lovers his longing for a meaningful platonic relationship where he could develop his full potential without sexual entanglements.

His desire for life devoid of a sexual urges would resurface strongly later in his Heaven's Gate teachings as we'll find out. Now before we move on with Marshall, let's dig a little bit into the backstory of Bonnie Nettles, or heard this character, the co-creator. Bonnie was born to a Baptist home in August 29th, 1927 in Houston, Texas. After high school, she moved away from religion, studied to become a nurse, did become a nurse, married businessman Joseph Seagal Nettles, in December 1949, with whom she had four kids, and then she meets Marshall, either shortly or before she starts going through her divorce with Joseph. According to the New York Times,

her marriage had been deteriorating due to her new obsession with the occult. She began to chart the stars, dabbling in astrology, began holding seances. I watched a heavens gate documentary when her daughter Terry talked about how her mom would take her out of the backyard when she was 14. And they'd study the stars together and her mom would openly hope that the aliens would come pick them up that night and take them far away. and her mom would openly hope that the aliens would come pick them up that night and take them far away. She also came to believe that a 19th century monk named Brother Francis began to frequently speak to her and was giving her instructions, you know, so pretty standard mom shit. Uh, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God,

God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God, God I think she'd run my diary the other day. She's convinced me and Mark are having sex. How are things going with your mom? Oh, my mom has been driving me so crazy too.

She's been talking a lot lately to the spirit of dead brother Francis and spending so much time in the backyard waiting to get baked up by a flying saucer. It's so embarrassing. Mom's, huh? God, that kind of shit would lead to divorce, wouldn't it? Even though I myself have been divorced,

I don't treat divorce lightly. I don't think it should be your go-to move when things get rocking in relationship. And if you have any money problems, or you've lost sexual interest in your partner, your partner suddenly just annoys the fuck out of you. You think you'd be happier with a neighbor lady or something do it work.

Don't just go for that right away. Get some counseling. Man, give the marriage a chance. Give reconciliation a real shot before you split. Especially if there's kids involved. I can speak from experience and say that divorce when there is kids involved, no matter how amicable it may be on the surface, is a mother fucker. However, if your spouse is suddenly under the impression that a dead monk is telling her how to make her life decisions and she refuses to take medication and she's waiting for

aliens and she refuses to realize all of this completely batching and saying, may want to part ways. Before brother Francis tells her to give away all your money or kidnap your kids or cut your throat and your sleep. So anyway, so back to Bonnie and Marshall's meeting. 1972, Apple White meets Bonnie Nettles and astrologer and nurse somewhere. They meet somewhere and they really hit it off.

And I guess they felt like they'd known each other all of their lives and then they decided that their friendship actually went back even further than their lives and went back to previous incarnations. Bonnie completes an astrology chart on Marshall and feels that his chart is very special. You have a very special star chart. Unlike any chart she'd ever seen

and the Nettles leaves her husband Joseph and their four kids, and what she doesn't do is have an affair with Marshall. Their relationship would never be sexual. If anything was based on a shared agreement to abstain from sex, Marshall became so against sex that at some point after they started their cult a little bit later, I wasn't able to locate a source that said exactly when he did this, but supposedly he took a trip to Mexico city with six early followers of his teachings and they all had themselves surgically castrated to rid themselves of sexual or just Jesus.

Now some articles do say chemical, most say surgical. Chemicals, you know, when you just take kind of like things to suppress your testosterone, surgicals when you get your nuts whacked off. I don't think they take the sack. I think they just take the testes out of the sack. I don't even know what they leave in the sack. I didn't, not a nut.

I'm not a nut castration surgery expert. But man, how extreme is that? Having your nuts just removed. Strange fact, I found out looking into it a little further, doing some nut research. Get your nuts whacked off. For sure, throws off your hormone levels. 95% of

testosterone comes from the testes, but it doesn't guarantee an erection-free life. I was surprised by that. Surgical castration, also called an oreoctomy, involves the physical removal of the testicles, which produced 95% of a man's testosterone. However, the small amount still produced by the adrenal glands could be enough to allow some sexual function to remain. According to one study from the 1960s of about a thousand German sex offenders who'd been castrated, 65% of the men immediately felt their libido plummet. Again, I'm surprised that's not so much higher. You just got your nuts cut off. 18% though were able to have sex 20 years later. That is surprising. Based on the small amount of data that exists on this subject,

I hope it's a small amount. Not a lot of castration studies out. It appears up to 10% of sexual offenders who are surgically castrated actually do repeat their sexual offense. That is fucking crazy. I wonder if Marshall still got boners after the surgery. That would drive you mad. That would drive you insane. Just, well, would you look at this? Look at it. Look down there. Look at it. How is this happening?

How is this happening? This is the work of the devil. This is Satan's boner. Damn, you devil and your devil would. Well, nutless boners are not. Marshall and Bonnie developed a friendship and then a partnership. And what was called the Christian art center where they offered classes in religion, art and music.

It was superseded by the no place, metaphysical center, a reflection to theosophical and occult teachings that nettles introduced to Appowite. Man, man, late 60s or early 70s people are just so much weird belief shit floating around everywhere. Then on New Year's Day in 1973, the pair left Texas for the West Coast on what they referred to as a spiritual road trip I ended up stealing a car later Actually, App White did because you know what you don't even need to pay for cars Not all the time not when you're on a mission from God and before we dive into the bonkers thoughts They had on this road trip. Let's check in with today's sponsor to time suck today is brought to you by Felipe as bars as first HBO one-hour comedy special Translate this debuting on HBO on, September 30th at 10pm.

Now the special features unconventional riffs on the immigrant experience, life's everyday battles. Felipe is a fantastic comic. And a cool dude who I've known for many years met several times, he was always a fun dude to hang out with and always just genuinely a funny guy. He was the winner of last comic standing in 2010.

He's appeared on this night show, Lopez tonight, the Arsenio Hall show, the Eric Andre show, True TV's world dumbest. I used to see him all the time. When I was also a cast member of that show, he appeared on Comedy Central's premium blend. Russell Simmons presents stand up at the L. Ray and much, much more. And now the affable, as far as I share his stories about translating first parents as a kid, how his father got his family to the US from Mexico, how he became a father himself while still in high school. He riffs on the challenges of identifying illegal immigrants

being a single father, dating single moms, cheating versus being cheated on, watching adult films with his wife, and a lot more. And he does it all in English, mostly. Mostly in English, peppers with a little bit of Spanish. So watch it, man. Watch Filippa Asparza translate this on HBO and HBO Latino Saturday, September 30th at 10 p.m.

Just in time for Hispanic Heritage Month. And now back to some madness. They slowly began to see themselves as a two witnesses mentioned in the Bible, Revelation 11, who spread a message of judgment, and then are martyred, and then are resurrected, and taken to heaven in a cloud. In the new international version of the Bible, chapter 11 of Revelation goes a little something like this. Actually, it goes exactly like this. It says, I was given a read, like a measuring rod, and was told,

go and measure the temple of God in the altar with its worshippers. But exclude the outer court, do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the Holy City for 42 months, and I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. They are the two olive trees and the two lamp stands, and they stand before

the Lord of the earth. If anyone tries to harm them fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. They have power to shut up their heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying, and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. Wow, that's some powerful shit. Must have felt cool to believe you were those two people, man, people who just march forward, you know, unstoppable preaching gods, will burning any motherfuckers, standing their

way, throwing plagues down, left and right, willy nilly. Why don't lunatics ever become convinced there's some small and significant historical or theological or mythical character, right? They're always God or like one of God's most powerful angels or the reincarnation of Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan, right? They're never taken with the spirit of some like random 12th century tavern wench, maybe some 15th century blacksmiths apprentice. Behold, I am Samuel, the blacksmiths apprentice, and I have returned to earth to continue to

try to learn, to continue to learn how to hammer hot iron into various shapes of such as swords and knives and what not and shields maybe. You know how to make a sword? Yes, I'm not well kind of somewhat, not really actually, but I have seen others make them and I have picked up a few things along the way while watching the real blacksmiths. Back to revelations. Now, when they have finished their testimony, the beasts, okay, sorry, this is a, I started to read that as if I said it. Let me read the biblical quote,

right? Now we're up to verse seven. Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the abyss will attack them and overpower and kill them. Their bodies will line the public square of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom in Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days, some from every people tribe, language and nation will gaze on the bodies and refuse them burial. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth. But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet and terror struck those

who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, come up here, and they went up to heaven in a cloud while their enemies looked on. Well, Marshall and Bonnie, the Bizarre World version of Bonnie and Clyde on a cross-country looney-tune spree, instead of a cross-country crime spree, they identified this cloud just referenced as a flying saucer.

That's where the UFO stuff starts to work into their teachings. And they moved on from thinking that they were the two messengers of the apocalypse pretty soon to actually thinking they were God and Jesus, man. Yeah, they just keep kicking it up. They developed a perspective that interpreted biblical pastures in light of contemporary thought about extraterrestrial contact. They believed that Jesus had ascended to heaven, the tele, T-E-L-A-H, the evolutionary level

above heaven in a spacecraft, and that Apple White had arrived on Earth from that same tele realm. He was Jesus returned, and he brought with him the Heavenly Father and the Person of Nettles. Holy shit, mental illness and the book of revelations. What a consistently horrific combination. Why couldn't early church leaders in the four century AD, you know, members of the first council, and I see, you know, when dudes were deciding

which Christian books to canonize and keep and which ones to toss in the fire, why couldn't they have thrown revelations in the fire? How many people have needless to die because of various lunatics obsession with Armageddon gibberish prophecy? I know that's disrespectful if you are Christian, but the revelations, oh, fuck, oh man, just please don't focus on that one. When you're doing your prayers, please, please kind of, you know, go light on that one. It's just I've read it. I've been fascinated

with it my whole life. And there's just, wow, there's so much crazy in there. So much angry crazy. All right. So in the early 70s, you have Marshall and Bonnie, two complete fucking maniacs who are feeding each other's religious and paranormal slash extraterrestrial beliefs on a daily basis, traveling the country actively recruit new members into their nonsense. Man, what, the conversations, these two birds of the same crazy feathers must have had. If you could just listen in the car, these two driving and just, you know, Marshall,

I just realized that you weren't born. No, no, you arrived on a spacecraft. And then inhabited this physical container. You've never had homosexual urges. You didn't abandon your family. You're filled with human body, did all that. You're space, Jesus! Oh, Pony, Pony, I can't tell you how good it feels to hear you say that.

I already knew it, of course, but I didn't know if you were ready to hear it. And you, of course, must know you're not some horrible mother who just abandoned her four children to travel around the country with a wild-eyed, delusional fruit loop. No, that's your silly human container's problem. That's just your earthskins business. That's just the trappings of your meat wrappings, baby. You are the father. That's what the real you is, your God.

I am the son of God. And we need to pull over and get gasp pretty soon because the needle's been on e for a while now. Plus, space Jesus has to tingle. Okay. Oh, wow. Well, these two hits some financial difficulties along their journey, not always a lot of money in telling people your space, God and space, Jesus. And then Marshall is arrested for stealing a rental

car, uh, alluded to earlier in Kansas. And the summer 1953, he goes to jail for six months. They don't, they didn't take it easy on space, Jesus. After Marshall, uh, Marshall gets out, the duo contact Hayden Hughes, a UFO researcher, and they ask him to tell his contacts in the general public that they have discovered a way to overcome death. They've overcome death itself. He's Jesus, she's got. And, you know, they got to get the word out. They've compared their discovery to a caterpillar, turn it into a butterfly. And humans can now, based on their teachings, metamorphosis into a level above humanity. And they called their group him, H-I-M, human individual metamorphosis. And even Hayden, even a UFO leader nut job, was like, nah, I'm not going to, no, I'm not going to spread that. Thanks. In 1975, Apple White Nettles convinced 20 people, though,

from Waldport, Oregon to join their group. Apple White told them there would be an alien appearance by means of a UFO. But then when the encounter never happened, their group dissolves. That had to have been a tough day, right? You get 20 people, to sign up for your nonsense,

you get everyone to wait for the spaceship, you're all excited, you're all talking about what you wanna see. I hope we go to Jupiter first. No way, dude. No way, Mars first, then Saturn. Oh, I actually heard the hottest space chicks are in Mercury, actually. The gravity there gives them the best curves.

This is going to be intense. No, and then pretty soon it's, hey, man, hey, man, where are they? We've been here a while. You said they'd be here at 10 p.m. Yes, I did say 10 p.m. Yes, I did say 10 p.m. Yes, I did. But I, if you were paying attention, clearly inferred 10 p.m.

Hawaii time, 10 p.m. on Hawaii is what I would meant. So, you know, we got a few more hours. No way, no way. You said Pacific time, I heard you, no, you misheard me. I said 10 o'clock across the Pacific, that's where you heard the Pacific part, okay? You know, okay?

You know, and then a couple more hours go by and then it's, all right, assholes, we've been waiting a whole fucking day. I need to get, I need to go beg my old boss back at Sears to give him my job back, all right? Looks like instead of traveling, goddamn galaxy, I'm gonna be selling not quite professional grade, but pretty solid power tools for the typical home construction

enthusiast again. Fuck. Or the fall of 1975 Marshall and Bonnie had changed their names to Bowen Peep because they're insane. And incredibly Bowen Peep are able to recruit new followers. Oh man. They began gathering followers in the Los Angeles, California area and they set it on a tour that took north to Oregon. You know, back there, I guess I'm guessing avoided their previous contacts who they let down with the UFO side thing went eastward in Chicago, bow and peep, we then changed our names again pretty quickly. Probably because it got made fun of a lot to do and T notes in the musical scale. Just, hey guys, important

cult announcement to make. Everyone gather around, it's come to our attention that the names Bow and Peep remind a lot of people of the nursery rhyme, little bow peep. Hurt, there's been a lot of snickering and giggling, and so we've landed on some new names. We will now be referred to as Doe NT. In other news, please do not refer to our haircuts as bowl cuts. I don't think that does it justice. I'd like to refer to them as a do-do. That's all just a do-do. Apple White becomes convinced he can communicate telepathically around this time. He tells a UFO buddy Hayden Hughes and others to use the Lord's Prayer to reach him. If you want to reach his mind, if you want to reach space Jesus's mind, you just do the Lord's Prayer to reach him, if you want to reach his mind, if you want to reach space, Jesus is mind, you just do the Lord's Prayer.

You know, a father, you know, therefore, I can't remember it, I tried to just wing it there for a second, but it's the famous one. You know, and supposedly Hayden tries this out once, and then the next day, Apple White calls him to ask why he had telepathically called out to him. Or at least that's what Hayden said. That's what Hayden said in one of the documentaries I watched. Keep in mind that Hayden is the former head of a now defunct international, unidentified flying objects bureau, IUFO.

So, you know, not exactly the most reliable witness. Certainly not somebody you want on your side of the trial. I'm sorry, who are you? I'm the former head of an alien discovery organization, disbanded after it couldn't find aliens. Got it. No further questions, Your Honor. But you haven't asked any questions.

No further questions, Your Honor. What kind of place are you at in your life when you're able to get suckered in by traveling to evangelists preaching a sermon based on being God in space, Jesus, and how they're trying to prepare a few select people to take the next evolutionary leap, shed their physical meat vessels by taking on God's heavenly spaceship. What has gone wrong in your life to leave you in a mental place where you, you know, you

just think, yeah, no, just keep talking, keep talking. This is making a lot of sense. You know, I've been looking for some answers in this crazy life, and by God, I think, I think I just found them. I think this is what's working for me. Apparently most of the early him members were former members of countercultural revolution stuff in the late 60s and early 70s. They had previously belonged to other cult type groups, other fringe religious groups. And I think people into fringe, new age, spiritual

activity, like tarot cards and astrology charts, that kind of stuff was the early members. Does crack me up whenever I tease in in the time suck, whenever I joke around about like tarot cards or astrology, I get a couple angry emails. Hey man, why are you picking on astrology? Do you even know anything about astrology? Seems a little close-minded, you know? After the Salem witch trials, episode,

I got some emails. Why are you making fun of Wikens? Do you know anything about Wikens? Your judgment seems a little close-minded. Look, look, in the spirit of honesty that I try to provide on this show, I don't know much about astrology. I don't know much about the wicked religion.

I don't know much about tarot card readings. However, I do know it is a fringe belief system in that not as many people believe it compared to a more mainstream religion like Christianity. Where I don't know if it's more or less spiritually legitimate than a major, more accepted form of religion or spirituality. Faith is totally subjective. Honestly, when I read revelations, it seems as insane to me as anything that the heavens

get cold people were in due. But I do know that far less people practice it. I also know that the more marginalized belief system is, it's less and less likely that a mainstream average member of society is going to give it a shot. Like Christianity has, even if you're, you know, Christian, I know a lot of my listeners are Christian. And you know that, you know, we've totally agreed to disagree and I like how cool you guys are.

And I try to be, I know joke around, but you respect that you get to believe what you want. But even Christians would agree that there's some wacky doodles in the religion. But there's also a lot of mainstream members. There's a lot of people who don't feel uncomfortable going to a Christian church or a cathedral because large portion of the rest of the community is also going. They got co-workers going, they got families and friends going. Some of them are fairly casual with it. Some of them, they show up, so let's do a few words.

They put a few bucks in the collection plate, and then they go about their lives, like everybody else. While Christianity has his backwood snake charmers, it also has college professors across. I'm assuming every facet of academia has doctors, lawyers, CEOs, highest ranking members of our government. I mean, we've had a lot of openly Christian presidents.

In fact, Thomas Jefferson, here's a little trivia. Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln are the only two presidents who didn't publicly profess to be Christian. And even those two were assumed to have Christian leanings, right, at the very least. But we have never had a single openly wicking president. We have never had a president who publicly claims

to receive astrological guidance, and we won't any time soon, because mainstream America would reject that. Mainstream America would never vote for an openly wicken candidate, or a candidate who may decisions based on planetary alignments. I will decide what to do about North Korea just as soon as I get another good look at the astrology chart. I need to make sure Venus is not in retrograde.

I'm going to figure out what I'm going to do about ISIS, but first I need to rearrange the quartz crystal so my nightstand so that my dream vibrations are correctly calibrated. Definitely gonna make a decision by healthcare reform. Just, I gotta visit my cousin. Few more times, gotta work out a few more new spells. And again, I really am not saying these beliefs

are crazier than other religious beliefs, but I'm just saying that fringe group beliefs don't contain the same average member of society is often, right? Like for sure, contain people who are willing to consider possibilities that more mainstream groups of people would never entertain. And that level of curiosity and tolerance towards new and exciting and outside the box kind of ideas is what leads people to join a cult.

That's exactly the kind of person that will end up in a cult. The person who's just kind of opened to like, yeah, whatever alien stuff, Wicked and stuff. I mean, it's just like whatever, it doesn't matter how far out there, how off the beaten path it is, they're willing to entertain it. Okay. So I get emails also about not being tolerant sometimes. And I don't think you should always be tolerance. I know if I already address this a little bit, you know, be open-minded enough to look into what any cult or belief system has to say. But then also, don't be afraid to be like, this is fucking bullshit.

This is not for me. This doesn't make any sense. I think that's important, too. Or, again, you're way more likely than the average person to end up in a cult like this. Okay, so now Doe and T are offering prospective members deliverance from Earth in a spaceship in the immediate future. This is their plan right now. Mid news coverage that range from hostility to ridicule the group continues to gather members

and the members gather money for the movement by selling plasma to blood banks and asking for donations from Christian bookstore. So you know, killing it financially with their new cult. Yes, we have a spot reserved for you on the spaceship, but we're a little low on funds waiting for the spaceship to get close enough to board. So we're going to need you to sell some some of your blood for 10 bucks. And then in 1975, a wealthy Chicago land developer quits his business leaves his wife and joins the group, giving them a whole shitload of money. Oh, jackpot, a rich sucker.

That's exactly what everybody every cult needs, right? Devoted followers are great and all, you know, too, you know, but too many of those poor followers are going to bring down the whole ship. Can't buy matching tracksuits spend all day talking about space Jesus, you know, about what worlds you're going to explore. Once you get on the ship, you know, without some, without some Benjamin's flown into the cult cash box from time to time. That's what I need. I mean, you guys are great. I'm glad you guys all listen, but if I can get one of you to give me a million dollars to keep the suck going well Then you're gonna get what you want mr. Millionaire the early group ballooned to about six years 70 people

Caravan around the US staying at campgrounds and places. They determined to be good energy states like Colorado and apparently old dough and and and tea Old bow and people tweedle D and tweedle fuck face, kept dangling this carrot of an upcoming metamorphosis in front of the face bowl, just any day now, any day now and we'll head to the spaceship. And any day we're gonna get the word, one former cult member recalled another cult member, openly buying toothpaste, or only,

excuse me, only buying toothpaste in those tiny little travel size tubes, because she assumed that she wouldn't need a big tube, because they were taken off any day now, any day now. Much like the later heaven's gate incarnation, the members of him all began to dress like and also androgynously. Everyone had the same kind of bowl haircut situation, sexuality, completely suppressed, individuality completely suppressed individual individuality completely suppressed 1976

Bonnie nettles aka a t aka madame ding dong Announce the doors to the next level. We're now closed in the group stopper crew new members Began to concentrate on the teachings just to their followers Guess in the bank accounts. We're looking good and they were just tired of trying to convince more people to abandon their families friends careers sex lives Follow them around looking for a spaceship. It's got to be a tough cell. 1977, group receives a windfall in the form of a large inheritance received by one of its members. Praise, space, Jesus. You know, they had to have moments after they closed off the membership doors

when they were like, are you sure it was a good idea to kind of just stop getting them? I mean, these guys are great. We're not exactly killing it at the plasma centers. In the early 80s, the group starts to lose recruits, tired of waiting to hop on Jesus' spaceship. I love it, that's a real thing that happened. Followers, you know, started taking off. It's, what do you, what do you mad about Jamal? I'm tired of waiting, I'm tired of waiting to get

on Jesus' spaceship. I'm not a mental health expert, but if you ever feel, like you're just sick to death of waiting to get on board Jesus' spaceship, you are completely out of your mind. You need to leave your compound and you need to walk straight to a mental health facility. And before we march on, I want to explain exactly what these followers are being taught at this time, a little more detail. Marshall App White, aka Do, aka Captain Banana Brains.

You know, he stated that the extraterrestrial mind that once resided in Jesus' body is now in his body. You know, they're teaching everybody that 2,000 years ago a group of extraterrestrials came down to earth from the kingdom of heaven, the next level. One of these was Doe. Doe was given instructions by T, his female companion whom he referred to as his heavenly father. Doe then left his body behind, transported to earth in a spaceship, and incarnated, moved into a human body, that of Jesus Christ. That's how Jesus got here. And then a second group of extraterrestrials returned to earth, starting in the 1920s, or

I guess came to earth, I don't know if they were back once, it's a little confusing of teachings because they're so all over the fucking map and they changes their group evolved. But the second group is coming to do some other stuff, I guess, in the 1920s. And Doe is the captain of this expedition. Okay, I think I kind of get what they were what they're trying to say at this time. So he comes back, Jesus, he gets crucified, and then he goes back into the spaceship, and then they go back to off their fucking space world, float around in the spaceship for a while. Then they come back in the 20s, they go back to off their fucking space world. Float around in the spaceship for a while. Then they come back into 20s, they return. And Doe was the captain of this exhibition

and T was the admiral. And then they each move into another human body but somehow lost track of the rest of the crew. I love when creators of a religious mythology, they run into a tough piece of creation narrative and they just, they don't even try to make sense. They just gloss over something that is complete nonsense. Right? Like, how do you, how do you teach that? What were they saying in this meeting? So, so God and God's Son are all my, them, nipotent beings. And they arrived here

2000 years ago on their spaceship with important messages for humanity. And humanity received those messages in Christianity with the born, see? That's how that works. And then 60 years ago, space, God and space, Jesus came back, okay? Because after the crucifixion, they took off it to space. They did do some medical refuel or something. They did get some more space stuff taken care of.

And then they came back with more messages, okay? Do you follow? But then space, God and space Jesus lost, they lost track of some crew members. They got distracted. Or something for about, you know, for about 50 years, because hey, you could listen. Even space Jesus makes mistakes.

He's got a lot of his mind. He's got a lot of his space mind. He's thinking about intergalactic navigation, comet trajectories, refueling schedules, some guy doesn't like a Jupiter. He's been in his head, he's low on blood sugar, he gets dizzy, sometimes he can't keep track of stuff. And you lose your crew for five decades when that happens. Do you know?

Okay, are we still there? So then, all of the original crew members, those are you guys do you follow and You're the originals and you have the spaliens spirit and you just like I have Jesus's Space brain in my head you have a crew member space brain in your head and that's why all of this makes sense That's why this message resonate with you. Do you get it now? Do you understand now? Okay, who wants some sandwiches? Who wants some eggs salad? Stamies. Okay. Oh, doughtot that earth was going to be recycled in the very near future. You find recycling is a global renewing in which life as we know it would be wiped away and then would start to new. And one of his later heavens gate

initiation tapes, which you can find on YouTube again, he talks about this recycling And let's just see from the from the horse's mouth from the crazy horse's mouth. Let's see what he has to say You know intelligent human beings Should realize that everything has their cycle They have their season They have their beginning. They have their end, they have cycles. We're not saying that planet Earth is coming to an end. We're saying that planet Earth is about to be refurbished, spated under, and have another chance to serve as a garden for another human civilization.

Come on, dummy, wake up. If you're intelligent, you'll believe everything I'm saying right now. Oh my god. A lot of the logic leaps cult leaders always make. You know how the earth has seasons, right? And you know that nature works in cycles, right? Well the earth itself is about to be completely recycled and all human life upon it will be wiped clean. That's logical, right? No motherfucker. It's not. It's not right. It reminds me of like some brief sales training I had, rather manipulation training years ago.

When I briefly worked as a physical trainer, 24-of-itness, yes, at one point, I was actually in great shape. And they were training us to sell training packages. And part of that training was to get people in the habit of saying yes to simple, obvious questions, because it was proven if you get people in the habit of saying yes, it would increase the odds, they would then later say yes to a question that had like financial significance, like a purchasing question.

Like basically like, you wanna be healthy. I mean, you wanna be healthy, right? I mean, you think it's important to take care of yourself, right? You see the value of exercise, right? Well, you understand that having an expert help you accomplish something is more effective than just trying to figure it out yourself, right? You see the value in training, right? You want this $1,200 training sessions package, right?

You just gross manipulation. The sky is a sales technique and he's clearly using it there. Maybe unaware that he's, you know, consciously doing that, but he's doing it. By 1982, Doe and T, and their teachings have become known enough to inspire a movie, The Mysterious Two, about two aliens who visit the earth in an effort to enlist converse, to travel universe with them. The two aliens were based on Marshall and Bonnie. If you find this on YouTube, this movie, some people mistakenly think that Bonnie, like Marshall Apple White and

Bonnie were inspired by the movie. But no, they actually were known by 1982 already and the movie was inspired off of them. And then the cult hits another bump in the road when Tegas brain cancer in 1983. She has one eye removed in an attempt to emulate her new prophet, Bo Jangles, three-legged, one-eyed pitbull and prophet of T's new god Nimrod. Hey, O Nimrod, and the puppy stomping begins, and the sacrifices made to appease Nimrod began. But Nimrod is not appeased and the cancer continues to spread. All right, the bojangles Nimrod stuff didn't happen,

but you really did lose an eye to bring cancer. And then she died in June of 1985 in Dallas, Texas. And her death seemed to contradict the group's teachings up until tees death. They actually believed that they would be able to take their physical body with them to space. Like they would just actively kind of walk on or be beamed up by the spaceship.

You know, they just come pick them up, but Apple Y was, you know, he had to do some smooth talking and then he was able to explain and justify her moving on ahead of the group, cross out a few sections of his pamphlets he'd been working on, right? And if you knew added rules here and there, you know, bright tricky. Look, I know you're all confused because you gave us your earthly possessions and left your lives and loved ones in exchange for T and I's guidance. In exchange for us taking you to the spaceship and then she died and that's confusing. But don't worry, this doesn't change the plan.

Actually, there was a problem on the spaceship. I didn't want to say anything, but one of the saucer wings on the spaceship was dented in a meteor shower, and T decided that she should go up there and fix it, because she's God. And it doesn't, you know, it doesn't need to end up in the shop for a hundred years, because if it did that, and they had to fix it in the space shop, then we would miss our flight and have to wait longer than our human vessels allows. If you think Earth mechanics take a long time, it is nothing compared to space mechanics.

They get you in for a noial change and then the next thing you know, you're having your flux capacitor totally refurbished. Who wants an ex-salad sandwich? For the next several years, following T's death marshal and 20-year-old self-followers, bounce around from location to location, Texas Texas Colorado, Utah, living off their existing funds, basically keeping themselves regrouping, you know, after T's death. They don't actually try and recruit new members for a while. Marshall just focuses on recalibrate in his teachings, making sense of T's death mastering the art of endlessly staring into the camera without ever blinking, or even slightly relaxing his lonely

two nights, saying the craziest shit ever in a calm voice to make it more palatable, listening to God talk to him from space, you know, cold leader stuff, one on one shit. 1993, Apple White renames his sec calling it total overcomers anonymous before changing that again to heaven's gate. And he continues to preach the message of earth's imminent recycling. The group also finds a way to both make money

and recruit new members. Now for those earlier members left, the ones who supposedly, you know, members of Space Jesus' old crew, guess they had to open the books again. Look, I know that I said that some of our former members were my old spaceship crew, and that's why we closed off membership. And then those people left, and that looks bad. But that was just a test. I told them they were my old crew to make them feel good.

And there were a few extra seats on the spaceship. And some of them, some of the people were old crew, but those of you who have stayed, you're the only real old crew. Look, hey, look at that squirrel. Look at how fast that squirrel can run. Anyway, time for lunch. Let's have some food and forget about it. And then they get into web design, man. Look at that squirrel. Look at how fast that squirrel can run. Anyway, time for lunch.

Let's have some food and forget about it. And then they get into web design, man. Web design. That's how the coal starts making that money. I love that. I'm like, why not? You know, they build websites for customers using the name higher authority. And they counted the San Diego Polo Club, a local topiary company, and the Christian music

store among their clients. Those guys must have been pissed when the cult has the mass suicide. How's the higher authorities tech support? It used to be great, seven days a week, twenty-five hours a day, but then pretty spotty since the entire company killed itself a few weeks back. Apparently, they did pretty well with their web design, making about $400,000 a year, enough money to do stuff, like run a full page ad to recruit new members

in USA Today, anyone who responded with strong interest was told that the reason they responded was because an alien presence was inside of them. They were a member of a spaceship crew and it was almost time to come home. Remember you was talking about earlier, and then they had their own site built, that they use as recruitment tool

heavensgate.com that site still exists the message on the homepage is the same message that was posted before the mass suicide of the group in 97 it says whether a hailbop has a companion or not is irrelevant from our perspective however its arrival is joyously very significant to us at heavensgate. The joy is that the older member in the evolutionary level above human, the Kingdom of Heaven, has made it clear to us that Hail Bob's approach is the marker we've been waiting for, the time for the arrival of the spacecraft from the level above human to take us home to their world. In the literal heavens, our 22 years of classroom here on

planet earth is finally coming to conclusion. Graduation from the human evolutionary level. We are happily prepared to leave this world and go with T's crew. If you study the material on this website, you will hopefully understand our joy and what our purpose here on earth has been. You may even find your boarding pass to leave with us during this brief window. We are so very thankful that we have been recipients of this opportunity to prepare for membership in the kingdom and to experience the boundless caring and nurturing. And then there's all kind of links to just insane literature written by Marshall and Bonnie over the years. And you can also still contact a representative of Heaven's Gate on this

active website. I actually did. They got back to me more on that in a little bit. Okay, January 17, 1994, 6.7, Richter scale earthquake, known as the Northridge earthquake, rocks a San Fernando Valley, and Los Angeles killing over 50 people, causing billions of damage, dough feels like this is assigned to the end of the year. Recycling is right around the corner. 1995, soon after the discovery of the comet, hailbop the heavens gate members become convinced

that their spacecraft piloted by T is on its way to Earth, hidden from human detection behind the comment. October 1996, Apple White rents a large home in Rancho Santa Fe, several San Diego explaining to the owner that his group was made up of Christian-based angels. Wish I could have witnessed that exchange. So what do you guys do? Your web company, is that right? We're partly a web company, but mostly we're a group of Christian-based angels waiting

for the return of T, my partner and father, so that we made to part our physical containers and ascend to the next evolutionary level. Ah, okay, buddy. Well, whatever, as long as the checks keep clearing, I don't give a shit. You can be king, fucking, tut for all I care. I'll have a plumber over there this week to knock out that dishwasher leak So none of you, you know angels slip on the kitchen floor and bust bust the wing or some shit And I don't know why redneck guy would be would be the would be the landlord at the San Diego there

But he what he was okay, and then less than six months later in March in 1997 the largest mass suicide in American soil would take place 39 heavens gate members would try to find their spaceship. Let's hop on out of this timeline examine a few more aspects of Heavens Gate before we suck on their absolute final moments. So what I kept wondering is I'm researching all this. Who were the other members of this group? Well, let's look at some brief bios. One member of Heaven gave one of the 39.

It was Cheryl Butcher, 42, a computer trainer. Butcher was a shy, bright, self-talk computer expert who spent her life in Apple White's orbit growing up in Springfield, Missouri. She was the perfect daughter, says her father, Jasper, a retired federal corrections officer. She was a good student. She did charity work, candy striper stuff. But according to Virginia Norton, her mom, she was also a loner. She watched a lot of TV and read, making friends

was hard for her. That is until she joined the cult in 1976. She wrote me a letter once, says Norton, that said, Mother be happy. Be happy that I'm happy. On another time, she ended a letter with Look Higher. Okay, so we get a loaner in the group. Makes sense, David Van Cinderin, 48,

environmentalist was another member. When I was four, he saved me from drowning, says publicist Sylvia Abbott of her big brother, David. The son of a former telephone company CEO, David became an environmentalist. Don't be hurt, I'm not doing this to you, Abbott says. He told his family after he joined the cult in 1976. So he's an early guy right after that initial problem when the UFO didn't come and they got

new members. He was one of the first to hop on board. It's something I have to do for me. Visiting his sister in 87, he puzzled her with his backseat driving, then apologized, explaining that cult members drove with a partner at all times so they'd have an extra set of eyes. It says his sister. That's the kind of care they had for one another. He also had Alfonso Foster, 44 bus driver.

On the surface, he was full of promise, intelligent and handsome. He devoured books on philosophy and spirituality. He says James Hannon, who roamed with Alfonso many apples in the 70s, didn't do so well on the practical details of life. He was a free spirit who was rarely able to hold a job. He sang into a deep depression after his mom died in 1980 and then Han wasn't surprised when Foster joined Heaven's Gate called in 1994 after talking on the phone with Abouite for 20 minutes. He didn't like much about his life in this

dimension, as Han wanted to go beyond. We also had Julie Lamontane, 45 and Nurse, Ray Lamontane's mom. Ray Lamontaine's mom was, no, that's not true. I just thought that when I had her. No, this is a different Lamontaine. Julie Lamontaine was raised by a foster family. It's been much of her childhood studying and eventually getting her nursing degree from the University of Massachusetts

at Amherst graduating cum laude in 1974. Shortly afterwards, she saw her best friend drowned and her birth father, Jules, with whom she had remained close dive cancer. And the death just made her collapse, as her brother Andrew. We could never get her back after that. She drifted through a series of New England communes, until she stumbled on Heaven's Gate in the late 70s. She soon became Apple White's personal nurse. Okay, so you know, that one makes sense. She's somebody who, you know, given up on life.

She's already bounced around in communes and then finds this. We got Margaret Richter, 46 computer whizz. She was a class of 69 valedictorian at Lips Plumas High School, award-winning orator, and drum major red of the marching band. Margaret Field was successful at everything she tried, we call to teacher. We expected her to become governor, or president, says classmate Fred Carion.

But in, but her 1969 marriage to Berkeley classmate, David Richter fizzled after just a few years and it left her shattered. That's what changed her, says her father, Emre 76, through those she earned a master's degree in computer science at UCLA. She seemed to be losing interest in life in 1975 when she encountered the cult.

She wrote her family that may, saying, here's hoping I get a UFO trip for Christmas. Wow, after 21 years of little contact with her daughter, her mother Virginia concludes, if you're gonna change the world, you gotta stay here to change it. I totally agree. You know, I'm gonna fucking go off on a pretend spaceship. Michael Barr, Sando, 25, X-Pair Trooper, another member. UFO-Side, he might not have been much more startling to residents of rural Abington, Virginia, and the Blue Ridge, of rural Abington, Virginia in the Blue Ridge, but but Hills, then news that one of their own was among the heaven's gate dead.

Sando, son of an evangelical minister, had been decorated for his service as an infantry paratrooper in desert storm in 91. And friends, remember him as a popular senior class president. He seemed carefree, wanting to have fun, since Patricia Pasco. He was always a class clown. To Sando's family, word of a suicide came as a double shock.

The other family seemed to know their son or daughter was involved in the cult since half for other James. We didn't. And the list goes on and on, man, members were artists, medical assistants, accomplished entrepreneurs, drifters, homemakers, salesmen, spiritual seekers. Okay, so now let's talk about what these people did the day before enacting their meticulously planned suicides. The cult went out for last supper, like a last outing supper together at Marie Calender's restaurant in Carlsbad. They all ordered the exact same thing, a waiter recalled to the paper, with the BBC article. It was set up before they came in. They all had iced teas to drink. Dinner

salads beforehand with tomato vinaigrette dressing. Turkey pot pie for the entree, cheesecake with blueberries on top for dessert. They seemed very nice, very friendly, very polite. No one seemed depressed at all or anything like that. Seriously, Marie calendars? And you gotta order the same thing. You can't go to an awesome stay cast and give it the fuck you want. Ah, come on, nothing against Marie calendars. I like some of their pies, I like some of their strawberry pies. It's fine for a family dinner, but last meal, fuck Marie calendars.

Go all out, get a credit card. Get a credit card specifically for your last meal. Eat the most expensive food you can find. It's not like you're gonna have to pay it off later. And I guess also be shorty before the mass suicide. They recorded a bunch of exit videos. Each of them ever recorded like an exit video. And those are actually still online, so disturbing.

I wanna play a little clip from one of them. This is something that I have been thinking about. And this is something I'm doing on my own free will. And nobody is really forcing me to do this. It's something that I know deep inside is right for me. And I feel like that's important. The next level gives everybody their rights. They're very rights conscious.

And they give them the freedom to do whatever they want. And I feel this is part of the freedom that they have given us. And the choice they have given us. And I am very excited about going, I can hardly wait. And I'm ready to go. Wow, man. He's ready to go. And sorry about the audio quality on those, the video quality itself is a little low. And then I'm recording from a hotel room again. My little makeshift studio on the road, just because of my travel. But yeah, man, so disturbing.

Wow, man, he's very excited. They can't wait. And if you watch more of those, they're all, no one seems hesitant at all. They just, this is what they've been waiting for. This is what's been dedicating their lives towards. Yeah, it's not like a sad thing, like Jim Jones was so different.

I guess I'll talk more about that later, but the Jim Jones one, you know, people were like, why, no, we don't want to kill ourselves. It was like so much sadder. If you listen to the audio clips of their final moments, you know, a lot of people clearly did not want to do this. These guys, man, this is what they've been spending their entire adult life working towards.

So on March 24th, the suicides began, 15 members committed suicide on March 24th, another 15 on March 25th, then nine final ones on March 26th. In total, 21 women, 18 men died. Yeah, they all took a crush-sleeving pills, the sedative phenobarbital, mixed it into either applesauce or pudding, and then wash it down with vodka. The surviving members, they would take a then place a plastic bag over the drug members head once they were asleep to ensure death. Obviously the final nine couldn't do that, but that's what the rest did. Love that there was a choice between applesauce and pudding. You know originally there was only going to be one option.

Like originally it was just pudding, but then the whiniest member of the cult was lactose intolerant or something, just couldn't do it. Okay, so we'll mix the sleeping pills into the pudding now. Yeah, about the pudding, you guys all know I'm lactose intolerant. You know, usually I try not to make a big deal about it. I mean, the cheesecake, the other night at Marie Calender's destroyed me.

My stomach is just getting over it now. Can I please put the sleeping pill powder and something else? Well, Hank, it kind of goes against the whole team unity vibe we have. I mean, we're all wearing matching outfits. We're all doing it the same way. Can you please just have to put in? It's kind of upset my stomach, like big time. Yes, but you'll soon be unconscious and then you'll be on the spaceship and it won't matter. Well, I mean, that's the way thing. I don't, I

don't want to have my last moments with my physical container, big assy. I don't want to remember taking the next evolutionary step by sharding my way to a comet tail. Okay, Hank, Apple applesauce. Well, is applesauce fine? Woohoo, yeah. All the cult members died virtually identical deaths. They were found neatly Okay, Hank, Apple, Apple sauce. Well, is Apple sauce fine? Woohoo, yeah. All the cult members died virtually identical deaths. They were found neatly on their beds with square purple cloths over their upper torsos. They all wore a matching black shirt, sweatpants,

each member had a $5 bill, and three quarters in their pockets. They were all wearing identical black and white and Nike decade sneakers. And then the company soon discontinued that style due to the association with Heaven's Gate. Since then, random trivia that shoes have become a collector's item. An unworn pair apparently discovered in a storage unit in Arizona just went up rocks

on eBay while back $6,660 was the auction price. They used Apple White's face as part of the advertising. I love the quarters in the pocket to $2.5. That was never explained. No one can ever figure out exactly or no one's ever said exactly for sure what that was for, but their speculation, it was like almost like a bus fare, like spaceship fare. God, I hope that's true.

Like that, what a weird, yes, we got it ready for us. We are going to be on the spaceship. One last thing, we don't look, we're going to leave our physical containers, we will transmit to be on the spaceship. One last thing, we don't look. We're going to leave our physical containers. We will transmit to the spaceship, but when we get there, to get in the space store, you do have it takes five 75 US. You do have to pay five 75 to get on board because that would be we have to put that on a pocket That would be a real bummer to make it all the way to the comet tail. We've left our physical containers And then we just kind of have to shrivel away in space

because, you know, we didn't have the 575 that you need. Where the fuck do they come up with this stuff? Mental illness is where they come up with this. Many of those who kill themselves have been at with Apple Y for 22 years at this point. Man, how do you live with something dude for that long and still convince yourself

he's the second coming? You had to have seen him fuck up counselors to countless times over two decades. Like, wouldn't you live with something dude for that long and still convince yourself he's the second coming? You had to have seen him fuck up countless countless times over two decades. Like when you start to question why God forgets to flush the toilet all the time or why God for sure farted during the football game that are the other day but refused to fess up or how or why God just can't properly grill a ribeye to save his fucking life. Three Heavens Gates members, Rio de Angelo, aka Richard Ford, and Mark and Sarah King did not commit suicide in 97. Rio was at the compound in Rancho Santa Fe a few weeks before the deaths, and then left to ensure future dissemination of Heavens Gate videos

and literature, and the other two stayed around to run the website. Richard, he wrote a short essay, Richard aka Rio. He wrote a short essay about his life in the year since, suicide in LA weekly just earlier this year. And he kicked it off by saying, I'm glad to be alive and planning to stay that way. And then he says, I have a wonderful life with purpose. I am alive not because I rejected anything about Heaven's Gate. I am alive because I have discovered something

so extraordinarily important to the world that it needs to be passed on to you in his most true and accurate form from me. He's still very much a believer. Later on, he says, I want you all to know that I was a member of Heaven's Gate from 1994 to 1997. I know everything worth knowing about them

and I can say with absolute undeniable certainty that Heaven's Gate was indeed the second coming of Jesus. Well, there you go. He just said it. So everything I was joking about earlier, I'm gonna have to admit I was wrong now because I mean, he said undeniable certainty. He said, he said undeniable certainty. So you know what? Fuck, now I wish I could

have gone on the spaceship run because that, that, that was our chance. So all of us listing right now, we all fucked up. We all missed our spaceship chance. I don't care if you weren't even born yet. You fucked up. You, you, you, you should have been born earlier. Your spirit, your alien spirit should have told you, I don't know. And despite the mass suicide of their overwhelmingly majority, of the overwhelming majority of the group, he's against suicide. Pelsioreo is saying, I am against suicide. And so was the group. What happened to Heaven's Gate was an exit. The end of the spirit reincarnation process in the beginning of a life as a soul in the level

above human. They exited their bodies and are now with their guide and process in the beginning of a life as a soul in the level above human. They exited their bodies and are now with their guide and teacher in the spirit world, the valley of the shadow of death, helping misguided spirits before their ascension. What in the fuck? I am here to bring you the truth and to clarify information for you to examine, also to help with understanding the next steps after the second coming, if that is your choice. I am not here to convince you to do anything or to believe any of this. If it speaks to you, use it. If not, go on. No one will die from reading my book.

Okay, I'm gonna go on. I'm gonna go on. He is man. He is not stopped drinking the crazy juice. The book, by the way, titled Beyond Human Mind, The Soul Evolution of Heaven's Gate is at a print unavailable on Amazon. But if you really want it, I found one used copy for sale on a website called Apes Books. That's Apes Books $178, not kidding. So you know, I don't plan on reading this one, but knock yourself out if you want to learn more and grab that betboy. The other two remaining members are the two people who maintain the group's website,

heavensgate.com. Journalists online are pretty sure their names are Sarah and Mark King and pretty sure they live in Phoenix, but they won't confirm their identities. These two former members did attempt to gain control of the possessions in a state of heavensgate, following the 1997 Mass suicide, but were unable to do so. The belongings were auctioned off by San Diego County's

property division, but they were able to purchase the intellectual property of the group. The website, manuscripts, artwork, computers, patches, bearing the group's logo, et cetera, for $2,000. And you can still contact them via the website. You can still email them at rep at heavensgate.com, R-E-P, at heavensgate.com, and I did. And within 24 hours, they got back to me. On September 20th, 8.39pm, Pacific time, I rode in saying, Hello, I find it very frustrating that I can't join Doe and T on the next level.

Why won't our holy ship return when there are so many of us who know who I know still want to leave this planet and evolve before it's recycled? I am already celibate and care not for the frivolous and vapid rewards of this world. I am ready. I promise I am. How can I help? And what can I do to prove my readiness to shed this physical container advance my spiritual evolution? Also, in the meantime, I am skilled in web design and can help maintain the site if you need help or would like to update to a WordPress site. Respect respectfully yours, Reverend Dr. Daniel Cummins, S. Quire. Yeah, I laid it on pretty thick. Laded on pretty thick.

I'm not so bit. I don't know shit about web design, but I did hear back. And when I did, I was positively getting. They responded at nearly 1 a.m. the following morning, morning and 21st, saying, we are powerless to do anything about this. We have to wait like you do. We will keep you in mind for the other offers you have made. That's good. So I may hear for them in the future. I couldn't stop here. I wrote back it just before 11 a.m. on the 21st and kicked it up a notch

And I said thank you for your response. I understand your position. For myself, I have decided to attempt to leap to the Kingdom of God on December 16, 2018, when Commat 46p, Wartanin, will be less than 8 million miles from Earth. I understand you have to stay. I understand many may doubt my ability to make it to the evolutionary level above human in the Kingdom of God. Let me help your continued efforts after I am gone. I have no family I am close with, no children.

But thanks to my mother, who shed her own physical container on November 14, 2011, I do have several real estate holdings in California, two rental buildings, one with eight units in the Koreatown neighborhood of Los Angeles and one with four units in the large-mont neighborhood. I myself live in a three-bedroom home in Bellevue, Washington, based on recent tax data and rudimentary market analysis that combined value of these dwellings is a conservative $6.5 million. I would like to leave these possessions and what savings I have with Evansgate when I pass and leave my lower forces behind. I meditated throughout the night and feel that Doe spoke to me from the next level. I now believe it blasphemous for myself to deny his transmission.

Please instruct me on how to proceed with my earthly belongings. I want to leave everything behind and be taken to my father's house. I am so grateful that Doh was chosen as a conduit to show me the way and brave enough to heat the word. Respectfully yours, Reverend Doctor Daniel Cummins, Esquire. See, I just wanted to see if they really believed their own teachings or if they were just some deluded con artist, right? Just some manipulators hanging on, waiting for people to give them some more money.

I was wanting to see if they would take the bait and condone me killing myself in order to give them real estate investments. To their credits, they did not. They wrote back one last time, almost exactly 24 hours later, saying, sorry, don't commit suicide for us. No one has transmissions with dough. You can only communicate in person and other physical means. Okay, okay, respect, respect remaining heaven's gate member.

You're not trying to weasel me on anything. All right, I find this fascinating, man. They're still really committed to the teachings. After all these years, they believe that if you didn't make it to the spaceship with the other members back in 97, you just have to wait for another shift to make its presence known or just die and end up getting recycled when the earth gets spayed at under and their armageddon belief. And if you're a true believer when this spayed under happenings happens, you know, you get to go meet up with Doe and T. Finally, here's

what they say about that on their website. There are souls, some of you here now who have received a deposit of recognition and that knowledge finds you desirous of connecting and bonding with the next level. Those who have the deposit of life will believe what we say and know who we are. If they continue in that belief, sustain that life, though the opposing space, alien races will do anything to prevent them from nurturing that gift, they will be protected and saved from the approaching recycling and spading under of the civilization. They will have nothing to fear nor will they know death even if they lose their human body. That continued belief will one day find them a member in the level above human in a physical body belonging to the true Kingdom of God, the evolutionary

level above human. Leaving behind this temporal and perishable world for one that is everlasting and non-corruptible holy, bad, shit fucking crazy. Wow. So they believe that unless you let some other alien, like I guess in their belief system, Satan is another alien. I didn't have time to read their entire belief system because I didn't have three years to to wade through a fucking preposterous amount of insane writings to try and make sense of 20 years of gibberish.

But I think, apparently, they believe that there's other like Satan's, maybe he's another alien. There's just all these competing aliens out there trying to corrupt you. And there's the one good aliens, the space Jesus aliens, trying to take you to heaven with this real place. Wow. the space Jesus aliens trying to take you to heaven with this is a real place. Wow, heaven's gate field felt so different to me than the other two cults explored for time sex, Scientology and Jim Jones. You know, like Elrond Hubbard with Scientology clearly had a massive ego and through manipulation and lies built himself a massive fortune, had people worship him,

had sex with a variety of young women. I never felt like he bought his own teachings. It was very male ego centric, he was a fiction author who just wrote some more fiction. And that's why I have zero respect for Scientology. Just like get the fuck out of here. There's nothing spiritual about any of it. He just was a frustrated author and he manipulated a bunch of people into thinking he was some godlike figure.

I always felt like he didn't buy that, any of that stuff. He was selling. Jim Jones, him either. He clearly craved, craved, craved, control. And it was also, he wasn't a believer. He started out as a blatant con man with regards to his fake faith healings

and he actually manipulated over the years Christians into eventually renouncing Christianity and binding his communist beliefs once he'd had since a kid. Let's all live on a compound, we're on the leader. I'm pretty much gonna sexually abuse all of you. He's a fake faith healer. Again, very male ego centric, very sex power control. You know, Marshall though, so different, Marshall, App White, he cut his

goddamn balls off based on his beliefs, like literally, had his balls taken off. He can convince others to get their balls off, right? He set up a website company, worked on, to wait to board a spaceship, and then with no pressure from any government officials or any other authorities, like the pressure that led up to the mass suicide in Jonestown with Jim Jones, you know, we killed himself and asked others to join him.

Other members of Heavengate could have easily left, you know, unlike Jonestown, you know, they could have just taken off. And he did also all based on like, you know, like astrology, like based on a comments orbit. To me, Jim Jones and Elrond Hubbard blatantly bad people, blatant manipulators, sadistic, narcissists, I don't think Marshal Abowai was bad actually. I think he was just very mentally ill, like a very specific type of mental illness, you know, I think he was very delusional. And he clearly, to me, truly believed the gospel he preached, believed it so wholeheartedly he was, to me, truly believed the gospel he preached.

Believed it so wholeheartedly, he was able to convince others of its truth. You watch his videos, he doesn't give the impression that he's some shrewd manipulator. He comes across as just fucking loony tunes. You know, and how did he get others to follow him? Well, quite simply because life is hard. Life can appear bleak and pointless when you don't have

some belief system tied to a higher power that you're part of already a higher meaning, and I get that. I live that reality sometimes, you know, is it more agnostic kind of Mr. you know curious person, you know, it does it that's not always fun Sometimes you just wish somebody could be like, hey, man. This is how it all works And you can be like, okay, I'm done tired of thinking about it. That's what I'll do And you know, and people, you know, we desperately want to be part of something bigger Something bigger than consumerism and strip malls and chain restaurants and sitcoms, something more exciting than soccer practice and suburbs

and gossiping about who's cheating on who. And I think some people want that so bad, something more so bad. They're just kind of waiting for the right person to come along and tell them what they want to hear. Tell them that they're special, man. God does have a plan for them, very important plan. A plan to, you know, you're going to see the fruits so very soon, man. You are one of the chosen people. You're one of the alien brains. It's in you, not all these other people, but it's you, because you're special. You know, and there's a plan.

We're gonna leave this mundane world, all its responsibilities. We're gonna explore new worlds, man. Become capable of doing more stuff. We're gonna be higher, more higher evolved than you can even imagine. You know, and then you buy into this plan, you leave your family to join this plan. You take your body, your friends, you know, and your life to be part of this mission. And now you've been in it for years. And now he's like, okay, just got the word. We're taking off in March, joined tea, the rest of the space crew, all aboard. I think it would be weird at that point to not

heed the call. And people are always like, how do these guys fucking kill themselves over? How would they not of at that point? You know, this is the moment they've been waiting for. You know, Marshall, Marshall Applied, kind of, of this dude offering, you know, membership to others and what he thought would be a better community. Wait a minute, it's kind of like what I'm trying to do with TimeSuck. If I talk to you guys about the TimeSuck spaceship I've been building lately,

son of a bitch with the same human being. I record these episodes all of them wearing a black track suit with 575 in my pocket. No, we're not the same guy. He was far more bananas than myself. I hope, but to play devil's advocate, I do always think about this kind of stuff when I'm researching these type of things.

We don't know for sure it didn't work. Now, kind of a weird thought, right? Like, we don't know, not for sure. I mean, I don't believe it did. Not a part of me believes it did, but I can't prove it didn't. I cannot prove there was not some undetectable spaceship hiding behind the Hail Bob comment,bop comment back in 97 when it

came close to earth. Just like I can't prove that Jesus wasn't the real son of God or Muhammad didn't speak with God or that Joseph Smith didn't find secret gold tablets with God's words on them in a cave, and it's all faith. When it comes to faith, man, I don't know, you do what you're going to do, but I just recommend be reasonable. If it feels good to pray to some presence, you know, beyond human comprehension, great. Just don't start thinking that it's actively talking to you, all right?

Actually talking to God, it doesn't make you spiritual, it makes you fucking crazy, makes you mentally ill. And stay away from a faith and ask you to kill yourself, right? That that seems a bit like a bit much, you know, just like I can't prove that they're wrong, they can't prove that they're right. It seems like an unnecessary risk to take. That type of extremism is what separates cults and religions to me. You know, you feel strongly that a belief in the afterlife and the existence of loving God makes you better person, gives your life meaning and purpose. Okay, harmless religion.

You feel strongly that God has chosen you and you alone to convey new messages to the rest of the world and that other people should give you their money so you can continue with your important spiritual mission, dangerous cult. Now, you believe you know God and who he is and then he hears your prayers, harmless religion. You believe you know who God is and he personally has told you to stab your neighbor at midnight to keep your family from going to hell, dangerous cult. You know, you like to wear a cross necklace because it visually reminds you to adhere to your faith-based morals and lets others know, you share the same morals that they do, I'm going to harm this religion.

You wear an aluminum foil hat to keep bad aliens from reading your mind and thwarting your plan to save mankind from Satan's minions, whack a doodle. Me, I'm going to choose to believe in the suck man. Hail Nimrod, I'm going to believe in mystery. Maybe when we die, there's nothing, maybe there's something cool, waiting for us so we don't even know about. Why not believe in that? You know, you don't get a prize for believein' and nothing when you die, that's why I can't be atheist. Man, it's just too sad. Good job, atheist.

You win. Now have fun, cease and do exist. You know, have fun being warm food. And again, atheist, you can be right as well. But I digress, let's refocus on Heaven's Gate for just a few more minutes with some top five takeaways. Time, suck, top five takeaway. Number one, the mass suicide of Heaven's Gate was and remains the largest mass suicide

of U.S. citizens on U.S. soil with 39 victims. More, you know, U.S. citizens died in Jonestown, but that was in South America, not San Diego. Number two, Marshall Apple White convinced 20 people in Oregon in 1975 that the UFO would be landing and would take them to space. And then it did not happen. A good lesson here. Never kill yourself to board a spaceship when the person telling you it's the only way to get on that spaceship has a proven track record of being wrong about spaceships.

Number three, Marshall Apple White was once a choir director and early in life was heavily involved in theatrical musicals confirming what I've always suspected and that's that theater kids are super weird. Number four, Heaven's Gate, still around, barely. They're down to three members, but they do have an active website and you can email them and even better, they will get back to you. So flood them. Send some messages to repatheventsgate.com. See what you can get them to talk about.

That's R-E-P. At Heaven's Gate, no spaces or punctuation.com. Have fun, man. Let me know if you get some cool stuff coming back. Number five, new info, random Trekkie trivia, the patch that the cult members wore on their death uniforms that red Heaven's Gate away team is a reference to Star Trek next generation.

And Nishel Nichols, who played this super hot and sexy boot wearin' Lieutenant Uhera in the original Star Trek show, actually had a brother who died with the Heavensgate group. There was a trekkie kind of association. The role of Lieutenant Uhera was actually one of the first TV roles by the way for an African American woman that wasn't a role of a servant. Martin Luther King Jr. himself asked her to stay on the show when she thought for a while about quitting. Before his death, Thomas Nichols had confided to his older sister, Nichel, that he was awaiting a rendezvous with the comment. Thomas was a long time member of the cult, and on Larry King Live, his sister said that

until their mother died in 1992, she hadn't heard from him in 20 years. Time, suck, tough tough five takeaways. Heaven's Gate has been sucked. So sad if you think too deeply about it, so don't think too deeply about it. Hope they're on a spaceship, laugh on the rest of us. I really do. Don't think that's the case, but I hope so. Next week on the suck, Amelia Earhart, what the hell happened to the first female pilot to take a plane across the Atlantic?

So many theories have been exhaustively researched regarding her disappearance on July 2nd, 1937, when she flew across the Pacific in an attempt to circumnavigate the globe. Who was this early aviation pioneer? How did she become an American celebrity prior to her disappearance? Why didn't she take her husband's last name as her own during an age, you know, when it was taboo, pretty tab taboo not to do so her husband author and publisher George Pete Putnam very successful book publisher actually Would be known in the press as mr. Airhart

How crazy is that for the times she was a nurse's aid helping the American war effort and World War one a successful author herself holding Holder of numerous aviation records back when pilots could literally feel the wind blown through their hair, which is insane to me. To be out in the open air like that up in a plane, a true American original and another inspiring suck, I'm sure. We're going to examine her life, look into the theories regarding her death, which range from simply that she crashed into the ocean to a bunch of crazy stuff, like she flew back to the States and let a new secret life to be in a spy for FDR all kinds of all kinds of interesting theories out there All will be examined on Monday this next Monday special thanks to time suckers Alex Dane Jesse Howard Pat House

Everyone else who voted for the heavens gate to be a bonus episode a while back on Instagram Facebook and Twitter I hope you liked this episode and now let's look back some previous episodes You know, and let's look at look at the show itself with some time-sucker updates. Rup dates? Get your time-sucker updates? Time-sucker Andrew Wigand wrote in about the way I talk recently, saying, Greetings, sub-commander. I notice that you very often, that you very often stumble over your words and use the wrong word. I love that it's very often, I guess that's true. I have a very similar problem getting words to come out right.

How do you deal with this as a stand-up comedian, where it's so critical to be able to use just the right word, the right inflection, the right timing, etc.? Do you ever find yourself struggling so much with articulation that you lose focus on the act, has a slip-up ever caused you to blow a punchline? One last question, what does it like to tank on stage? And how do you get over it? Love the show, keep it with a great work. May you suck long, may you suck deep,

in the name of both Jangles, Michael Mothra, fucking McDonald, and the spirit of Nimrod's Balsac. Amen, love it, love it Andrew. Well, honestly, I think I'm able to get away with having a mush mouth because it's comedy. Like, I would be torn to shreds if I was a news anchor, for example. Maybe struggling with correct pronunciation actually kind of helped lead to my life in

comedy. I know I've always tried to work really hard on pronunciation. Some of my inability to hit words correctly is physical. I'm literally tongue tied. If you lift your tongue, you can see what's called the fregnulum underneath. It's a little bit of tissue, a little divider, right under the center of your tongue, you can see what's called the frenulum underneath. It's that little bit of tissue, like a little divider kind of right under the center of your tongue anchors it to the base of your mouth.

Well, you know, it varies from person to person on how far back on the tongue it is and how tight it is, how much slack is there. And I physically just have, it goes close to the very end of my tongue and it's pretty tight. So I cannot extend my tongue in ways that many people can. My tongue has very little movement possibilities.

I can't move it out of my mouth. Some people can touch their nose. I can barely get it to the edge of my lips. Barely get it out of my mouth. So that's, you know, you use your tongue to pronunciate. So I'm a little bit fucked there. And rather than trying to hide it, I just, I own it. You know, it's big, a little funny.

Oh, well, whatever. Works for comedy, you know? I feel like it maybe helps with my delivery style. Just a physical abnormality or whatever. I make mistakes all the time on stage and I do make mistakes, you know, with pronunciation. And I just own it. I just call myself out and make fun of myself.

And you know, that works for comedy. If anything, having to focus harder on how I say things may have kind of helped train my brain to think about words in a little more detail than the average person, that might help my comedy. As far as getting over a tanky non-stage, which I've done many times, you just regroup, man. You just remember that in the big scheme of things,

no matter how the show goes, it doesn't really matter. And you get back up there and you give it another go. You get over it. You try to learn how, why you tank, you try to improve, that's important, and decide to be a little more focused the next time you're on stage. And then if you tank again, you know what,

you fuck can do the same damn thing, and you pull yourself back up. Now, we'll say, if you tank like a hundred times in a row, may want to find a different career. Probably not the thing for you, comedy probably not for you. Half joking there, But not really. All right, the next update comes in from Time Sucker Brian Bendams, the chef at the Omaha Funny Bonneman Club. I was just at. He's a Time Sucker as well.

Brian writes, what's up, Dr. Reverend Suckmaster? I wanted to point out something that wasn't mentioned in the Teddy Roosevelt Time Suck. In the Battle of Kettle Hill, the press often used a cropped picture of Teddy and his writers at the top. It was the tenth, actually, a colored cavalry who was first up to Hill. They actually were the first up, both hills. The colored cavalry, Buffalo soldiers, had a high amount of deaths and wounded, probably statistically much higher. I know Teddy was a badass, but I can't give him all the credit for that hill.

The charge to take the hill was started with over eight minutes of Gatlin gun firing, destroying all the Spanish positions at the top while infantry and cavalry snuck up the hill. Keep on sucking. Well, looking into this, Brian does seem to be correct. The Buffalo soldiers, the African-American cavalry, do appear to have been the first up the hill. To be fair to Teddy though, when the Rough Riders

wrote up the hill, the fightin wasn't finished. So they were still being shot at. The Buffalo soldiers were supported by the rough riders. That did happen. And while this may diminish the level of heroism undertook by Teddy on that day, I just don't think he was still very heroic for him to go there at all.

Man, you know, he definitely, for sure, left a cushy political position to go fight first country, you know, actively fight. I include this update though, to remind us all how tricky historical research really is, kind of on all these things, you know, on all these things, when researching any historical event, or persons, especially in the days before videos,

and audio recording, you're just kind of at the mercy of whoever was writing the article. I mean, even with the Heavens Gate stuff, even the more modern, amazing how the facts were presented, I say facts almost in air quotes, so differently, and so many different, you know, like the Washington Post, New York Times, BBC, pretty legitimate places.

And one would claim that this happened on this date, and it would be a different date in the other place. You know, I guess these journalists, man, they're just trying to hit deadlines and fucking speeding along and just kind of a lot of times going with like, yeah, okay, that'll work. And especially historically,

man, journalists would exaggerate events to build up like morale during times in war war like in this case with the Teddy Roosevelt things. Sometimes they would malign people unfairly because they just didn't like them, didn't like their politics, especially like when you get back to Roman stuff, you know, a lot of the Roman stuff was, you know, everything written about like Caligula, for example, you know, or not everything, but most everything was written by people who didn't like the guy, you know, politically.

So they're going to give a certain slant to it. You know, that's why these episodes take me so goddamn long to research every week. And I hardly ever have time for email correspondence. Fucking, I'm not even joking there. Jesus Christ, you have to cross reference, fucking everything with this stuff. Again, like in the heavens gate, man, you know, some of the articles presented martial-median Bonnie, the Kroh creator, after having a heart attack, is absolutely what happened. That's definitely how they met. Marshall actually claimed this, you know, here and there. Other stated he met her after checking into a psychiatric

facility to try and cure himself with homosexual impulses as absolutely being the truth. You know, and then I watched a documentary that featured Bonnie's own daughter saying that to have met in the theater's acting class. You know, three different, very different things. Only one of those can be true, or maybe none of those was true.

This is why I have the time sucker updates no matter how hard I research at the end of the day, never have, you know, I never have more than a week, and with that time crunch, combined with just conflicting sources, inevitably, something's gonna be either incorrect or at least, you know, disputed. So thank you time sucker for sending this info

to be shared with everyone who listens, and then you know you form your own conclusions. Okay, one more update. Time sucker Connor Brown, Brown also wrote in regarding last week's Teddy Roosevelt episode saying, Hey, Dr. Supreme Cardinal Lieutenant Colonel Cummins, I really appreciate the insights made around minute 34 of the Teddy Roosevelt episode about how sometimes a rough patch can potentially lead people on to better paths that they had in mind in the first place. I'm going to bit of a rough patch right now, and I've been having a hard time seeing this overlining, so to speak. Thanks for the reminder that shitty times aren't necessarily the end of the world.

All right, man, Connor, I love you took that away from this episode, and I'm strongly assuming I didn't go back to that minute mark, but yeah, talking about when his cattle, all his cattle, a lot of them died in that harsh winter in North Dakota and that, you know, stand him back into politics. And if that wouldn't have sent him back into politics, he would have never become president and never would have ended up on Mount Rushmore and all that kind of stuff. Well, you know, I, myself, had an especially shitty week this past week. For reasons I'll explain in the upcoming bonus episode about the time suck itself.

And you know, and I found myself thinking about Teddy's story as well. Life is fucking hard sometimes, man, especially hard sometimes, and there's moments, when you feel like just giving up on this or that, but then whenever I feel like that, I think about some of the lives we've sucked on, and how if they would have quit when the going got tough, they would have never had the life that inspired me

to suck on it all these years later. When I get really frustrated, I end up keeping going back the same reason to continue. I know what giving up leads to. Jack shit, guaranteed. Persevering in life may not lead to whatever you want either, but at least it allows for hope. At least it allows for the chance

that things will improve, that things will get better, that you'll walk away with more than jack shit in the end. And, you know, just trying for that, just that alone makes the pursuit worthwhile in my eyes. So, you know, I hope that at least you still have a chance to get whatever you want in life. So whatever all your time suckers are trying to accomplish in your own lives, if it's something

you really, really feel passionate about man, don't quit. Don't quit. Quitting guarantees is never going to happen. Give yourself a chance and at least go down with a satisfaction that you fought the good fight. Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did.

Well, thank you for listening everybody. Thank you again for listening. Follow the suck on social media at time suck podcast on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. Have a for listening, everybody. Thank you again for listening. Follow this suck on social media at TimeSug podcast on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Have a great week, man. Stay curious. Don't kill yourself to board an alien spacecraft. It's a suggestion of a wild-eyed maniac, and you keep on sucking. Thank you.