Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 75 - Guns and God: David Koresh's Waco Siege

Episode Date: February 19, 2018

Feb. 28th, 2018 will mark the 25th anniversary of the ATF raiding the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco Texas, setting off a 51 day armed standoff between federal agents and militant Christian fanatics. Over 80 people would die, most in the final day of the siege when a fire would burn the compound to the ground, killing nearly all of the men, women, and children still inside. Tanks versus citizens. Armed agents versus armed zealots. Religious freedom versus gun laws and the age of consent. And behind all of this madness? David Koresh. A self-proclaimed prophet, polygamist, and pedophile. We get real weird today as we go full-cult on Timesuck! Timesuck is brought to you today by by the socially conscious on-line fantastic mattress store LEESA! Go to www.leesa.com/timesuck to get $125 off AND a free pillow as part of their President's Day sale that starts NOW and lasts until Feb. 28th. Support fellow Timesucker who lost his home and belongings in a recent flood. Here's the GoFund link - please help if you can! https://www.gofundme.com/cf6quh-help-the-campbells Wanna be a Space Lizard"? Go here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast Sign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits. Merch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ Want to try out Discord!?! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG, @timesuckpodcast on Twitter, and www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast And, thank you for supporting the show by doing your Amazon shopping after clicking on my Amazon link at www.timesuckpodcast.com

February 28, 2018, less than 10 days from this recording will mark the 25th anniversary of the ATF rating of the branched divinity and compound in Waco, Texas, setting off a 51-day armed standoff between federal agents and militant Christian fanatics. Over 80 people would die, most in the final day of the siege when a fire would burn the compound to the ground, killing nearly all of the men, women, and children still inside. This siege was televised live across America day after day for almost two months. Tanks versus citizens. Armed agents versus armed zealots.

Religious freedom versus gun laws and the age of consent. And behind all this madness, one David Kuresh, a self-proclaimed prophet and leader of a small rural Texas religious sect, a seventh day Adventist offshoot, a man who transitioned from a rural Texas high school dropout to a man who convinced lawyers and college professors that he was a prophet of God and that God had also ordained that David should not only sleep with these men's wives, but that he should also get their wives pregnant and not allow their husbands to ever sleep with them or any other woman ever again. We get weird, real weird today as we go full cult and not to good cult to the curious kind

today on time. Happy Monday, mother suckers, Heidi Hosepacelizzards. I'm Dan Cummins, aka Profit and Nimrod, aka Brother of Bojangles, the master sucker, the puppet master of Chickatilo, and this is TimeSuck. Welcome to your weekly taste of the cult of the curious. We're learning something new is actually fun. We're history meets humor. We're insanity collides with profanity. Recording from the suck layer and scenic cordal lane Idaho

with Reverend Dr. Joshua Crel, Esquire of the seventh. For all spaces or app and web updates, please just check the Patreon emails and the Patreon posts. More improvements coming each week. Very excited for this week's improvements. The bit of licks are guys working so hard to make the secret suck experience a smooth one. And if you can't figure something out, email them. They are awesome.

Time suck app at BiddleLixer.co. Huge thanks to Jimmy Wiseman and James Petagallo from crime and sports and small town murder for joining up with me in Detroit, Furndale, technically for a night of stand up and podcasting two sold out shows. Hail Nimrod. Thanks so much to all the awesome time suckers and space lizards who made it out. I'm planning on posting that show on Patreon for my light space lizards soon. Little extra extra suck for you guys. Yeah, that was so much fun.

And some sadness. Obviously this last week my heart goes out to anyone affected by yet another school shooting this past week. This time in Florida, you know, 17 people gunned down this past Wednesday at Marjorie Stone when Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, more senseless violence. Some of you wrote in saying that it's time I do a suck in America's relationship with firearms and I agree. Haven't been putting that off out of fear of losing listeners or getting shit over it. I just need extra time to do it right. Haven't had that the past month or so. Got to do that particular

topic, justice. And it's a complicated one. Man, gun control and immigration are the two hot topic social issues. I will suck soon. Just got to get my mind properly around the can't rush that. I left, you know, I made that mistake in the past with some episodes or jumped in a little too quick. And I wish I could have kind of done them over. Uh, got the first elite space lizard gathering this weekend in Cordelaine here at the Suck Dungeon. I'll be posting pics on Instagram. I'm sure doing some Instagram stories, Facebook, Twitter, at time, suck podcast, pump to get the Suck Dungeon looking nice this week for the weekend.

Uh, also feel terrible for one of the attendees. Space lizard Brian Campbell just lost his home and everything in it pretty much due to some recent Ohio river flooding. He's launched a go fund me campaign to get back on his feet and I just donated and if you want to help a fellow time suckers, the link is going to be in today's episode description. Stay strong, Brian. I know some time suckers are going to help you out. We love you, man. Next week, and got some tour dates. Minneapolis, March, second and third, Cicifus Brewing, Tick still available for the stand-up live podcast been sold out. Brea, California, Cleveland, Ohio, coming up in March, Brea and Prove March 8th, 11th, eight through the 11th, excuse me, hilarities in Cleveland, 22nd to 24th, and Salt Lake City coming up in April, like totally spaced on Salt Lake City on my calendar.

Geez. More tour dates, Dancomas.tv, Big Southern tour in April, time now for time sucks. 75 guns and God, the Waco siege of David Kuresh's branch division compound. So who were the branched of videos we're going to be talking about today? Well, the branched of it is were, and since I guess there are still members around today, technically still are a sect as opposed to a cult, a sect being an offshoot of an established religion, you know, as opposed to a true cult, which rejects existing dogma, rejects existing religions, kind of just does its own thing. Like Jim Jones, you know, if you'll recall,

rejected the teachings of the Bible and totality at the end and just got his people to agree with him about that and became this kind of strange socialist experiments. Marshal Applewhite of Heaven's Gate, he also started with the Bible, moved away until he was, you know, not interpreting it, even in its loosest form. He reimagined some scripture into this UFO intergalactic kind

of way and added his own teachings. The branched dividends weren't an aren't quite that extreme in their theology. The branched dividends came out of the dividends, which came out of the seventh day Adventist Adventist, excuse me, which came out of American Protestant Christianity in the mid 19th century. In the 1840s, it's really got going. And their signature, if signatures, if you will, or a celebration of the Sabbath on Saturday, instead of Sunday, and a strong focus on the second coming of Christ.

And I know that's taught in a lot of, you know, Christian denominations, but they like, they really focus on that, how that's just happening now. And they have been constantly incorrectly predicting it since the 1840s, which I always find kind of humorous, I guess. Like when that's the focus of your denomination is like, you know, Christ is coming back in two years.

The signs have been read. We all know it. And then two years passed, you're like, I've meant three years. And then he doesn't come again. And now that shit's been out in almost 200 years. Like at one point, he'd be like, maybe we got this wrong. We've been wrong a lot of times now. But they also don't believe in hell.

Like, you know, most other Christians believe it. They kind of believe that those who don't make it heaven are just destroyed instead of eternally punished. And there's a variety of other little differences. And most other Christians find them to be extreme. Some find them to be even cultish, just as 70 Adventists. And then there are the Davidians, which are a more extreme branch of the Adventists,

who felt that there are living prophets alive today, and that they follow the interpretation of scripture given to them by these modern prophets. And then there are the branch Davidians, who are an even more extreme offshoot of this already extreme version of Christianity who like take it to the compound level and have more extreme living profits such as David Kuresh. And since the branched dividends didn't reject the Bible, but rather interpret its revelations passages in extreme ways and followed a man they considered a modern day profit who also

follows the Bible. That's why they're technically a sect, but more fun to call them a cult. And I think in the way of common modern usage, a cult being defined as worshiping a particular individual, I think the term cult does apply to them because really, the divisions would come to essentially worship, correct, and practice if not in language. You know, I mean, he would manipulate them and to think I'm like, no, I'm just almost one of you. But yeah, no, but you're not. You're like, like, one of us, you know, is the only dude who gets to sleep with everybody. And

as you know, this dude who makes all the decisions and blah, blah, blah, you know, because David Correction, you know, he would come to control their lives totally. His followers would, would literally follow him, most of them, unto their deaths unto their deaths They you know they'd give him all their belongings. They give them their wives given him their children He controlled them in a way only a true cult leader can and how did he become a cult leader? Well, let's find out. Let's get to know David in a time-subtimeline Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time sucked timeline. The man who would come to be known as David Kressch

was originally known as Vernon Wayne Howell. And Vernon was born in Houston, Texas on August 17th, 1959. To Bonnet Clark, a 14-year old, unmarried high school dropout. His father, 20 year old Bobby Weinhow, was a real winner. Getting a 13 year old pregnant as a grown-ass man, and then abandon her and soon marrying another woman. Step one, towards becoming a cult leader, have a super awesome baby abandoning dad.

Shortly after Vernon's birth, Bonnet married a man who had just been released from prison. According to family members, who remember him as a highly physically abusive short tempered man who beat both his wife and infant son. This is the equally important step two towards becoming a cult leader. Get a super ear, awesome ear, step dad. Once your awesome dad abandons you, yep, hailing him right now. Lil Vern, I like, you know, I call him Vern.

Lil Vern's mom, Bonnie, dealt with the abuse for nearly 18 months, then asked her mother, early in Clark for help early, took in her teen daughter and grandson, then quickly had two more kids of her own, a daughter, Sharon and son Kenneth. With Vern, technically they were nephew, they became a noisy trio in the Clark home,

and had more of a sibling type relationship. That's that's step three and becoming a cult leader, have a kickass hillbilly family that includes a grandma who has babies and grand babies simultaneously. Got to say no offense to listeners named Erlean, but Erlean sounds exactly like the name of a lady who had two more babies immediately after her recently divorced daughter had a baby. Like, I bet after having those extra babies, Erlean had yet to hit 40 and could still rock the fuck out of a pair of daisy dukes. Like, I bet her ass still looked great. I'm getting a real solid picture of all this going on in my mind. Some real like my name is Earl type stuff.

According to the Clarks, Lil Verne was bright and precocious child who grew up calling his maternal grandma, Mama. And that is step four, form a natural grandma, Mama relationship. Erlian's husband was never affectionate with Verne. He was a hard drinking, just match old man, country type Texan. That's quote, part of a generation that did not encourage men to show emotion toward children, unless it was time for discipline. That's fun. You know, the old kids should be seen and not heard kind of cradle figure. that did not encourage men to show emotion toward children, unless it was time for discipline.

That's fun. You know, the old kids should be seen and not heard kind of pretle figure. You know, just building healthy psyche since the dawn of man. Don't coddle that boy. You're like, what, you love to turn him gay? You hug your son?

What the tarnation wrong with you? You tell him you love him, but why not just grab some dicks and stick him in his mouth while you're at it. I feel I feel like he was that kind of backwards old school Texas male role model, super homophobic, super redneck asshole, real joy for everyone to be around, not just the kids. Having an angry step grandpa, dad, that's actually step five now to become a co-leader. You know, it did wonders for John Wayne, Gacy, right?

Having an unaffectionate, you know, angry male role model in his life. 1964, little Verne's five is 19 year old, uh, mama is real mama. Uh, Bonnie married for the second time. She married Rory Haldeman and they took her son back to live with him in Dallas. Uh, Haldeman, David Kresslator claimed administered physical discipline. Uh, when I used to act up, when I had a bad report card, can you imagine? We got our tales won't. And later interview, Halledman denied that Vernon grew up in abusive household, saying, we had our normal problems. We got along okay. Now talk to say who's

telling truth here, because Kresh is a documented liar. He was documented manipulative liar, changes backstory to suit, you know, whatever manipulative agenda he was working on at the time. And as far as stuff that goes, if he was abusive, uh, child abusers, I don't feel like are, are known to generally be honest and forthcoming about their past abuse. It's not like, uh, my experience, you, you hear him in middit, did I abuse David? Hell yes, I did. Never seen a kid I didn't want to whack. Fear of prison is one and only reason.

I'm not beating a livid shit out of a kid right now. I got my eyeballs on a couple of kids right now to move, oh, dog of a man, I was like a wampum. Yeah, you don't usually hear me talking about it. During the early years of Dallas, little Vern attended public school, but was played by what family sources said the school told them was a learning disability.

He was held back to complete first grade twice and in in the third and fourth grade, he was putting special classes for learning disabled children. That's step six. Don't be good at learning. Have a hard time acquiring useful knowledge. One of the most important steps when becoming a good strong cult leader. 1973, when a Vern was 14, he was decided he would go back to live with his grandparents in Houston. By then, theson moved to a one-story break house on Ardmore Avenue, a lovely tree line street in Tyler, Texas. So, you know, I guess it was, you know, the Houston-ish. Grandma mom was getting old now. You know, he knew she wasn't long for this, sir. She just turned 38. Young by normal human standards, but old by backwoods, Texas grandma mama standards standards. She was smoking a cardinal, mental,

all the days and she was six and she'd been through 42 pregnancies already. No, no, but she did, but he did move back to grandma's. There was a place for teen verna to sleep in Kennis Room, but he was fascinated with a small shed in the backyard. It was a mess when he first arrived, but teen verna or TV, as I like to call him, was handy with tools. TV cleaned and hammered and transformed his little shed into a zone private place.

It wasn't for lack of a bedroom in the house, sister aunt Sharon later recall, he just lacked the idea of fixing it up. And he also liked the idea of being able to read his growing collection of putty and juju comics and private. He was particularly fond of issue number 238, juju, Jesus. And that happens to juju takes a hard hit to the back of the skull during the game of the school during a game of horse use, loses consciousness for about two years. When he comes to, he's

convinced he's juju, jesus, the second coming. And all he wants to do is talk poody, zero off about archangels, about it with demons, the antichrist, and randomly twice baked potatoes. And poody can't take it repeatedly yelling, zip it, juju, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say, I say In the ER, Juju actually passes out not Pudi. And when he comes to, he has a huge bandage on his head. Turns out doctors forgot to take the horseshoe out of his head during the cone. No one noticed that. The horseshoe for earlier actually went into his head into his cartoon

head somehow. And then, and then he's fine. No more Juju Jesus. And Pudi's fine, except for a huge scar and chronic pain from a stab wound that leads to a lifelong battle of opiate painkillers. Well, teen verned thought, what if the horse you didn't scramble his brain? What if that horse you made him think straight for the first time in his life? What if God put that horse in his brain and the doctor messed up by taking it out?

In all seriousness, yeah, first time listeners are very confused. Putin and Juju, just a recurring comic that pops up in the show. I'd hate for you to spend, actually, I would love for you to spend a lot of time googling Pudian Juju, but I want you to keep listening. I don't want you to spend a lot of time and then be like, fuck that guy! He fucking wasted three hours of my life trying to find Pudian Juju on Google.

In all seriousness, the backyard shed became a typical teenager's room. He fashioned a bed, ran an extension cord for a black light, covered the walls with posters of 70s rockstar Ted Nugent, the Nuge. Step seven and becoming a cult leader, listen to so much Nuge. Uh, that's right. There were fluorescent designs and posters. It was like a clubhouse at a former friend years later, Vernon taught himself how to play guitar, hanging out in that shed. Step eight, man, learn guitar.

That one's actually pretty important. Learned some kind of instrument. Old Charlie Manson. He wooed his family with some guitar. And sister Sharon also recalled that there were a lot of girls hanging around as well. They came from around the neighborhood ostensibly to visit her, but really came over to meet this dreamy new guy in the shit with the wavey blonde hair, right, playing rock and roll. I don't think he really had to chase girls, Sharon would later say, everyone that met Vernon liked him.

Step nine, be charismatic. Arguably the most important step in forming a cult, even though Marshall Apple White, of Heaven's Gate fame, fellatexan, while not physically handsome, light-corrash, was charismatic. All aboard, get on the spaceship. Remember that guy, that guy's a special place in my heart.

Around 1974 when Vern was roughly 15 or 16, he moved back to Houston with his real mom. A grandma mom early and shithead husband. I didn't care for teen Vern anymore. Any more than he cared for Lil Vern, you know, teen Vern had long hair, so he probably thought he was definitely gay. Definitely smoking hippie dope and the shit. I'm telling you, Erlin, if that boy don't have a joint in his mouth, he's got to dick in it. Get him off my property. Get him off my property. My property.

I feel like he really emphasized my property. I don't know for sure. He said other thoughts or sayings. But I feel strongly, this is close to the truth. When he was with his real mom, or whether he's with his grandma mom, one person he was always with was Jesus. Teen Vern was into Jesus, both his mom and grandma were practicing

7th day Adventist and how's early life was steeped in Bible study governed by strict moral codes applied to 10 commandments, literally banned smoking, drinking, fornication, and that's step 10. Have very religious parents become extremely well versed in the Bible. Next to being charismatic, maybe the most important step in becoming a collider. Keresh would actually go on to memorize the Bible as in the whole thing, which is extremely impressive to me, if he actually did that. Supposedly, he memorized the entire Bible. When he was 16, again, even as I say that, I know that sounds ridiculous, because it's a very big book, full of a lot of old, tiny words, and doesn't always flow from one one subject to the next, you know, with smooth transitions,

which makes it even harder to memorize. So the dude had some kind of gift. But uh, yeah, that was how actually how he would later get various cult members. They were just so impressed where it's like they could talk about any section of the Bible. He didn't have to look at it. And he would just boom, throw out the scripture just like perfectly, which is pretty amazing. When he was 16, a teen, Vern left public school went to the church run Dallas, junior academy, TV dropped out of church school in the 10th grade. And you're like, wait a minute, 16th, 10th grade, remember, he went to numerous grades multiple times. So he's a little older than the average 10th grader. Early in Clark said he was told that Vernon got into a dispute with a teacher with feud

with his parents, aunts, just a share and recall that he was having a lot of trouble at home with Bonnie and Roy. So Bonnie had to take him out of school there. So he headed back to grandma, mama's house, early in Sergeant dump shit, recently moved out of Houston. I'm sorry. I mentioned, oh, no, yeah, they moved away from like Tyler and he's, and now they're in the little picturesque rural town of Chandler, Texas.

Now while nowadays Chandler is a bustling small city with over 2000 people and not one, but two Mexican restaurants and an air conditioner repair place. I checked and it's only 30 miles from Canton, Texas, home of one of the world's largest flea markets each and every month. It was not so metropolis. Not so sorry, excuse me. Not so cosmopolitan, not so much of a metropolis back in the 70s. It was around seven 800 Godfair and red necks step 11 surround yourself with Godfair and red necks. Thought throughout

the years of shuttling back and forth between his mom and grandparents team. It was kind of left to find his own way into manhood. There was never really a good male role model for him. Someone who really took an interest in him and genuinely wanted to spend time with him and teach him something sister on Sharon would later say teen. Teen vert sexual education began early in example set by his mom and sister aunt Sharon to surrogate little sister who married a soldier when she was 14 14 14 man rural Texas in the 70s. They did not waste time getting hitch. At least not

in this story. Man, oh, look, look at that old mate. Look at that old, maybe she's 15 years old. She still don't have a husband. Oh, she was surely dialed on years later. Grandma mom, her lean would point to Keresha's early role models when it came to sex when she tried to defend him from pedophile, excuse me, pedophile accusations. She suggested that, uh, corrections teen wives in the wake ol' compound, you know, we'll be sucking into soon enough, uh, ought to be viewed in the context of prevailing sexual mores of rural East Texas. Uh, the youngest girl they had a baby at the branch of Indian compound was 14 years

old. She said he never raped anybody in his life. They grow up faster. Man, sweet rationalization of your own shitty choices, Erlene. Man, it's 18,000. 14 year olds having babies. That ain't normal. I know big day of when he been, when he been done, girls get horny here in Texas by age 9 or 10. They need a strong man to guide them into womanhood while I had my first baby, seven. I'm my first baby, seven years old. Used to bring her to kindergarten with

me. my four for fifth time through really painting a picture here, huh? Not excusing what he would later do, but crashed didn't exactly get a head start in life from his family clearly did not come from any type of educated upper demobile strong family unit. 1978 started off as a real solid year for teen Vern who was 18 had a new, guitar, plenty of girls, sunsets, trucks, and tunes. It's all you need in Texas, 1978 of kickass life. He made enough money in construction to afford the down payment on a new Silverado pickup truck. My dad had one of those actually. Actually, I know he had a Silverado, but I think he

actually had a late 70s Silverado. It was black with red, velour interior. Oh, so dope. Got some red velour. You kid me. Can't get all full of kick ass eight tracks. Ben Haylon, Errol Smith, Eric Clapton, the new, Teddy Nuget, man, Detroit based rock star who could shred his battle ax, pick up a real ax, do some outdoorsy shit, chop down some trees, kill some deer, fucking rock out of butt rock solo. Teen Vernon got really into bodybuilding that year as well, pumping up those biceps to the point to almost look too big for his frame.

Oh, yeah, man, curls for the girl. Curls for the girls. He's jacked. No responsibilities to have in casual sex before anyone cared about condoms and when AIDS wasn't a thing, so much fun, so much fun. Debbie Owens, then 16 working as a waitress at an all you can eat catfish restaurant counted herself lucky to be date and Vernon. He was a typical teenager. She said in an interview, a rocker who carried his guitar everywhere he went.

If you check out pics for him when he was young, he wasn't good looking dude. Man, he had his long wavy locks. I'll cut up strong jawline very, very much of 70s rock star vibe. Could've easily gotten work as a rowdy or guitarist like ZZ top, Jethro toll, Aerosmith. Uh, he ended up recording some music. Uh, actually, uh, I don't have a, uh, I couldn't find any of his early stuff, but I found some stuff he did on the compound thanks to a time sucker.

And recording quality is not great, but the music, not bad for what it is. In my opinion, I would say as cult leaders go, better musician than Charles Manson. You know, in Charles Manson, not bad. So let's let's hear a little bit of this. Thanks to Space Litter Monti for bringing this to my attention right before the recording when I was doing a little Instagram live. This song is called Mad Man in Waco. Seriously, that actually is the name of the song, Mad Man in Waco.

Yeah. Yeah! Oh, this piece, this one's a little sad Listen! It's not far from this piece That one appears to be It's a little hard to find it Oh, anybody? It's not a piece of wood Now what appears to be? I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that.

I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. He's helping some women kids. That's all you guys. He just helping some women kids. He actually he went away from his initial lyrics were different instead of Instead of helping women and children

Initially it was fucking some kids in my compound Taking the watch from the husband's Being a but a pedophile. His walk out of waltz for me. So that was the rough draft. And then that's the final version you heard. Of course the rough draft is not says, but yeah, you can find out he's a creep,

but he could sing pretty well. He could sing pretty well. You know, not bad, not bad, not bad, not bad, than I could do. So when his new gal pal, the old catfish buffet waitress Owens, uh, uh, wasn't working. She's hanging out of the community pool, you know, with, uh, with old correction, a mobile home subdivision. There's a little open air pavilion next to the pool with a roof and electrical outlet

and during the summer, all verren man. He turned into his own little mini compound set up as amplifier, practice for hours. Some of those sweet tunes you just got to hear. And he would draw a crowd, man. You know, with his hot riffs copied from the new, John Clapton, playing all those sweet teens and bikinis, his glory years. Well, actually later, he was glory years when he was fucking God amongst his people. But yeah, he was like, he was like Matthew McConaughey's character, David Wooderson,

Daisy confused. Remember that iconic role? Man, that's what I love about these girls, man. I keep getting old. They stay the same age. Teen Virm, it would zone out, Owens would say. I was like, nothing existed when he played until he let's you messed up. Then he was super critical of himself,

real perfectionist about chord changes. Music was the main thing in his world. I was a second she said. Also reminds me of Charles Manson. If Charles Manson and David Kuresh were just a little more musically talented, they could have been rock stars instead of, you know, cold leaders that got people killed like honestly, how weird is that? Owen said the most striking thing about Vern was the effect he had at younger boys such

as old Uncle brother Kenneth. Then in his early teens and others who said, you know, she said idolized him guitarist Grant Cook who sometimes practice with how and later become a professional musician said the same. Study loves hanging out with much younger boys. He really pumped them up, played with the self esteem. You know, they thought it was so cool that this older guy would take the time to talk to 14 and 16 year olds.

It owns what say it was real important to him that they thought highly of him respected his music as brain is values. Uh, yeah. to him that they thought highly of him, respected his music as brain as values. Yeah. And step 12, becoming a cult leader feed upon the adoration of the easily manipulated people or of easily manipulated people younger than yourself. Another important step is younger. Uncle brother, Candace said, teen learned to drive, counsel him on facing up to older bullies at school. I learned to stand up for myself. Can't have said he taught me that. Never Owen said not once in the seven months. They did.

Did she ever hear Vern talk about the Bible religion? He was taking a little break. What she did discover that he was seen another girl in Dallas. Oh, man, that's classic Koresh. Always got women on the side. Always. He was seen another girl in Dallas. A girl with a family members.

A girl who's family member said she eventually became pregnant. And then Owen said that they plan to have a meeting to talk things out, but Teen Verne never showed up. Yeah, I bet he didn't show up to that meeting. You know, when you get another girl pregnant, and then you're like, Hey, I gotta go, I gotta go work things out with their family. And then I'll come talk to you. There's no real way at a making that not a horrific encounter.

Hey, babe, I really messed up. Oh my God. Did you cheat on me? Yes. The thing is, I bet been cheating on you the whole time. We've been together and I have a baby come with someone else. I've also been making future plans with, and I need to sort some things out with her and her parents before you and I can work things out.

I mean, we're still cool, right? Are you mad at me? You're mad at me, aren't you? So the back half of 78, not as good for old teen vermin. And the months have followed TV, spiral down into what family members and friends described as a pivotal emotional crisis. He taught himself to be a capable carpenter, but held no steady job. He formed a band, but didn't play gig.

May have been well versed in the Bible, but he lacked even a high school degree. Lost his catfish, buffet teen, hottie, and Chandler, and the parents of his pregnant girlfriend and Dallas weren't allowing him to see her either. And he had no permanent residence, sometimes living in Dallas, sometimes living in Chandler. And, you know, and during this loss, confusion, period of his early adult life, he also uh, chose to confront one of the mysteries of his youth, the disappearance of his biological father was he was an infant, Bobby Wayne, how? Where the hell is Bobby Wayne?

Who's seen Bobby Wayne? We're BWA, we're BWA. He was sick asking those questions. We're BWA, hey, you seen BWA? He was sick and asking that question. Man, if Bobby Wayne ain't a rural Texas name, I don't know, I don't know what is. This is my Pappy Bobby Wayne.

Go on now, get the man some man so sweet to get some cornbread Go and get some grits get some grits slatter some that butter down my go grits Put a sweet down on the grits Put it on the grits I don't know why I had to get high there, but that made it funnier to me What are I put some corn out of grits? The more excited he gets about grits the higher his boy get him and some grits Put on no butter on those grits Get him out of some grits. Put on no butter on those grits.

Put on no butter on the hips. Anyway, teen Vernon, sorry about that. Teen Vernon was able to locate his paternal grandma, Gene Hollab, who arranged a meeting between a father and son. When his dad pulled up, Gene would later say it in an interview, they grabbed each other and hugged each other. And that was a wonderful thing. Vernon was delighted to find out that his father was both a carpenter and a skilled mechanic.

He started telling his dad, I know how to do carpenter work. It was just natural. And I'm a mechanic and that came natural. Now I know what I got out from you. I was happy as he was to be reunited with sweet B. Dubbed, sweet Bobby. Who's saying Bobby? Why? Get some good, get some good, get some good, get some good, get some good,

he was pretty bummed out about getting ready to have a kid with a woman he would not be allowed to raise a child with. So he turned to God and he threw his life into church big time. Step 13, this is a camp missed step on the journey towards becoming a cult leader. Have a low point in your life feel compelled to dramatically throw your life into the church. Start going to church like all the time, like, you know, nine days a week, memorize the Bible. Sometime in 1979, Karech starts heading to the 70 admittance church with sister aunt Sharon in nearby Tyler, Texas.

He was going through a chastising chair and said, seeking a tonement for the guilt he felt over his sexual appetite. He told her, I'm having a hard time keeping these thoughts out of my head. And he prayed a lot and he lost a lot of weight. The Tyler congregation was delighted to have a young, apparently fallen away. Remember, return to the faith. When members learned he was out of work, Harriet Phelps, an elderly woman whose sons were grown, offered him a room in exchange for work around her farm. Former fellow church members said the young man seemed to be burning with guilt over his past sex life and resentment that he had

not been permitted to marry his ex-girlfriend. The girl he was with in the Dallas area was about to have a baby. Former elder named Bob Bachman said, what a name? Bob Bachman. Uh, it was just killing him because her parents didn't want him around anymore. He really missed the girl and felt terribly rejected that he wasn't able to be with her. Bachman also said, Vern also professed a feeling intense guilt over his lifelong devotion to playing rock and roll. He would not even touch a guitar, Bachman said. Rock songs rock songs implied very strongly to him who's under a satanic influence. So he, uh, you know, he had washed all that away. This is when you for sure have taken religion way too far, way too far. Look, if religion is, you know, making

you more positive person, man, go for it. Fucking soak it up. But when you start thinking, when you start thinking rock and roll, just all of it is the devil's work. Get out, get out. When you start thinking rock and roll just all of it is the devils were get out get out When you think playing some power chords and singing about young love represents the devil tugging on your soul strings What a colossal waste of time while that shit is I like to think of God is real that he has better stuff to worry about than who's listening to Errol Smith And a church was strict moral values the reform to Vernon Hal soon to be David Kuresh suddenly became everyone's judge Especially when it came to the conduct of women He told at least one father that his daughter was wearing what he thought was in a modest dress Bachman said he became very straight laced and whatever his feelings as sexual guilt He used the church to develop relationships with other women both platonic and sexual hypocrisy another sign of a cult leader

You know, we're all hypocrites, but they take it further than most He alluded that he was attracted to me, recalled Bachman's wife Maggie, who was much older than Vernon. His younger sister, Aunt Sharon said, I never got tired of the dual family labels in this, sorry, I never get tired of the dual family labels in this song. Said she believes that this period was the last best chance for anyone to have, uh, interrupted Verne House transformation into David Kuresh. His life might have turned out differently. She said, had how not been captivated by a powerful series of revival meetings sponsored

by the church. All right. So he's real in. He's getting real serious about this, getting real judgey, getting real, real, real back into church. And then he goes to these revelations seminars. They were conducted by an evangelist named Jim Gilly of Arlington, Texas. Step four, 14, excuse me, of how to become a co-leader, attend something

called a revelation seminar. That doesn't sound fun at all. There's no way you're not getting introduced to a bunch of crazy apocalyptic shit at that get together. Well, the seminar featured dramatic, even frightening images and a multimedia portrayal of Armageddon. Ah, sounds so much fun. Gilly, who still presents his prophecy, panorama in the US and abroad. I actually found some YouTube seminar arousing speaker. Uh, well, he was described as arousing speaker in some of the articles I read. I wouldn't consider him arousing. Maybe when he was younger, he was, uh, he was a rouser. Um, but he had, he had this video representation of the apocalypse as foretold in the book of Revelation, you know, earthquakes, pestilence,

religious persecutions, combined with the video of current events, you know, seemed to point towards, point towards this imminent millennium, uh, you know, the things are going to happen right now. It, back the way, I've, I've eased way off on religious judgment on the show. But if you're presenting a, like as a part of a tour, this crazy presentation about how revelation is coming, you know, like judgment is coming right now. Fucking knock it off. No good has ever come from those presentations. Never.

And it's never been true. But they went all the time. David got really into this. We went every night of the week, Sharon would say, and Vern couldn't stop talking about the details. You know, it seemed to bring all his years of Bible study into focus. He felt called upon. He felt he could expand expand on Gilly's teachings. Gilly later said in an interview that how will approach him one night offer to reorganize his own his own show, change its message. Gilly rejected that offer. Yeah, I'm sure he did. Hey, hey, dude.

Hey, this is, this is my apocalyptic vision. You want to fucking get your own stuff by all means, but you don't, you don't come in and tell me what kind of crazy I'm supposed to tell other people. Um, and that's when it was things where it took off Sharon. So that's when he became very serious about his new vision. Uh, another word for serious in this, in this context could be insane. This is when he became extremely insane. Vernon said that even Mr. Galey had a piece of the puzzle missing.

She said the missing piece, how told her in earnest, was the seventh seal, something that could only be opened by a new profit. Step 15, start thinking that other crazy religious zealots aren't religiously crazy enough. They don't quite get it. God wants you to be even crazier than they are. The seven seals as described in the book of Revelation bind a scroll held in God's right hand that prophesies the calamities that precede the apocalypse. These following verses and verons interpretation of them would become the core of his life's mission. Going forward, he would never shut the fuck up about the 7

SEAL seriously. It becomes a whole thing later with the FBI. So book a revelation. Chapter 6, this is from the English standard version so we can all understand what he was obsessed with says, now I watched when the lamb opened one of the 7 SEALs and I heard one of the 4 living creatures say with a voice like thunder, come. And I looked and behold a white horse in its rider had a bow and a crown was given to him and he came out conquering and to conquer. When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, come and out came another horse. Bright, red, its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth so that people should slay one another and he was given a great sword. When he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, Come, and I looked and behold a black horse and his rider had a pair of scales in his hand.

And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, a quart of wheat for a denarius and three quarts of barley for a denarius and do not harm the oil and wine. When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, come. By the way, as I keep saying come, I just picture like junior high high school kids in church hearing a sermon like this and just Trying so hard not to fucking laugh out loud. Just picture like like come in this actual sense. That I would be that kid Just like, oh god, don't don't laugh. Don't get it. Don't get in trouble. Don't make a scene. And I looked and be whole to pale horse. And it's right. His name was death. And Hades followed him. Johnny Ringo references

that verse in tombstone for you fellow Western fans, by the way. Remember, uh, there's seen it very early on in the movie. He just, he just uses a different translation. He says, be whole to pale horse. The man who sat on him was death and hell followed with him. Those after they bust up that wedding, they Mexican wedding and shot the priest. Anyway, back to this translation. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth. When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain

for the word of God and for the witness they had born. They cried out with a loud voice, O sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge in a vangel our blood on those who dwell on the earth. Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who would to be killed as they themselves had been. When he opened the sixth seal, I looked and behold, there was a great earthquake. A earthquake, what the hell?

A great earthquake, and the sun became black at sackcloth. The full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig trees shed its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain in island was removed from its place, then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful and everyone's slave and free. Hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, fallen us and hired from the face of him who is seated on the throne and from the wrath of the lamb for the great day of the wrath is common who can stand

Step 17 become obsessed with the book of revelations and your role in it Not only believe that a religious apocalypse is coming, but also believe this come assume and you're gonna have a major role You're gonna be the star of the show man, well, yeah, that that verse those verses the star of the show. Man, well, yeah, that that ver those verses, uh, David Kresch's followers would hear over and over and over. He just became obsessed with it until the very end. Sharon said, Vern was convinced that it was time to have a new profit and a new light in the seventh day Adventist church and that he was quite possibly that person. He was the profit. Vernon tried hard to bring this message to the Tyler Texas congregation,

but, uh but you know, uh, at that point, they had had their fill in him following his formal rejection from the church. He took a high speed turn into the insular world of the branched dividends. A group formed 60 years ago by a man named Victor Hotef back in 1935. Hotef was another disaffected seventh day Adventist who quit the church after becoming convinced that he was a prophet. And the church kicked him and his followers out.

Church was tend to do that when you go from follower to new potential leader. They don't care for it historically. Who are your jets, buddy? We are here to talk about old prophets, not follow new ones. Don't rock the prophet boat. Well, since our inception, the branched divisions have always had a prophet living in their midst, someone who could convey the message and the branched divisions are still around, by the way, they just reorganized under a new name, the branch, the Lord, our righteousness.

One modern incarnation of the branch of Indians exists under the leadership of Charles Pace, follower of Ben and Lois Rodin, who is a member of the branch of Indians. In the mid 70s, he claims to crash, twisted the Bible's teachings by father and more than a dozen children, way more than a dozen children way more than dozen there with members wives. Uh, or I guess he had more than a way more than a dozen pregnant at the end there. Uh, pace feels that the Lord has anointed me and appointed me to be their leader, but he claims that he is not a prophet, but a teacher of righteousness. That sounds like a tomato tomato kind of thing.

Uh, David Kresh claimed he was a prophet. I'm not a prophet. I'm a, I'm a righteousness teacher who God speaks to me as a righteousness teacher. Like the branch of Indians under Kuresh, this incarnation is awaiting for the end times. So, you know, good that they're not under the kid fucking anymore. Not good that they're still hanging out, waiting for God to come punish the wicked and follow some weirdo. There's also a handful of former members of Kuresh's Waco compound who still believe who's a prophet and are still to this day awaiting his return.

This should join up with a couple of people left over from heaven's gate, some kind of support group. In 1981, 22 year old, 22 year old Vern moves to Waco to join the branch to join the branch dividends. The Waco section of the branch dividends was headed headed at that time by lowest rodent, who assumed the role of chief profit after the death of her husband, Ben. She was in her 60s at this time. Everyone understood she would, you know, not going to live forever.

She'd soon have a successor here, Vern found his niche and an isolated insular group that was willing, perhaps even anxious to accept the claim of divine inspiration, right place, right time man, key to success in a lot of fields. Howell recruited his brother uncle, Kenneth to the sect, got to stay close to at least one, you know, two for one relative, the two rented department working construction, pay expenses, spend in their off hours, recruit new members on a nearby 70 Adventist campus or going door to door in the neighborhoods where I'm guessing overall, they were about as well received as LDS missionaries or Jehovah's Witnesses during this period. Howell developed a a close relationship with fellow nut job Perry Jones who ultimately gave how permission

to marry his 14 year old daughter Rachel house first and only legal life. How gross is this again? This is not happening in 1813. This is happening in 1982. MTV is on the air. MTV is a thing. Oh, Vern is a 22 year old marrying a fucking eighth grader legally. Ugh. Lifelong member of the Brandt Davidians, Jones, which convinced the federal government

posed an oppressive danger to devout Christians. So now we start to get these anti-government stuff in his mind. Religious fundamentalism, government paranoia, strong interests and firearms. government posed an oppressive danger to devout Christians. So now he starts getting these anti-government stuff in his mind. Religious fundamentalism, government paranoia, strong interests in firearms, literally never a good combination. He was real involved with our rights, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms. Uncle brother Kenneth would later say Jones, and Jones would later die in an arms stand off of federal agents.

Of course he would. The three took long trips to revival meetings carrying along and Davidian tracks filled with elaborate diagrams, you know, regarding the faith as they drove the car will be filled Of course, he would. The three took long trips to revival meetings carrying along a Davidian tracks filled with elaborate diagrams, you know, regarding the faith as they drove the car be filled with talk of God, government and religion. Ah, sounds like a fun road trip. They went to religious tent revivals where Verne's charisma and gift for public speaking end up drawn so many people around to listen to him that the actual revival organizers would

have to have have police asking to leave. I office or arrest that man. He's stealing my thunder. He's stealing my thunder. Sunday around 1984, shit starts getting real weird in this story. I know it's already been pretty weird, but it gets substantially weirder. After David's arrival to branched of Indian compound after marrying a 14 year old, David begins having sex with the group's current leader, Lois Rodin, a woman who was 68 years old, 1984.

This has to be possibly the only time in history where a dude has a 14 year old wife and a 68 year old cult leader side piece. How incredibly odd is that? And what an obvious play for power. That wasn't about physical attraction. Get the fuck, she's 68 years old, you know, she's six year old woman named Lois. I've looked at pictures and she looks like a 78 year old woman named Lois. She was not a share or a Jane Fonda. Did God tell him to do that? God spoke through him. My ass. God tell him to bang a 16 year, 68 year old behind his 14 year old

wife's back. Get out of here. Clearly, Wieslin is way into a position to take over the group. Total con man. And I'm not the only one who thinks so. Well, I'll tell you who's not fucking both a 14 year old and a 16, uh, 68 year old today sponsored. Today's time suck is brought to you by Aunt Edna's geriatric vaginal wrinkle cream. Aunt Edna's vaginal wrinkle cream will shave decades off your AARP COOCH. Specifically formulated in a Swiss laboratory by combining tanning oil, butter, goat cheese, hydrochloric acid, pumpkin spice, ant, edness, geriatric vaginal wrinkle cream will make your 68 year old cockholster look like a 19 year old honey pot. Try for 30 days and then get the hell out of here. That's not a sponsor. I couldn't hold it together for that one.

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Okay, all right. Okay. Back to a time now when Kresh was not sleeping on Alisa, he was sleeping with a six-year-old branched-a-videon leader, named Lois. Also 1984, a few breaks out in the wake of compound between Kresh and George road and Lois's son for 50 for 54 year old son and the results in most of the congregation leaving the compound and going to live with Kresh and nearby Palestine

Texas for a couple of years. Now 1985 Lois son George rodent threatens Kresh still going by verne this time with the gun to stay away from his mom, even files a federal lawsuit accusing Vern of raping his mom, brainwashing her and turning her against him. God, that must have been awkward. How do you even do that? How do you get a federal lawsuit? What are you doing over?

I'm tired of this guy's raping my mom. The brainwasher. Shouldn't your mom be the one to come and hit? Now she thinks it's fun. I don't get to take him to make him keep his dick on my mom. Sounds really so weird to this 50-year-old guy. Can make him keep his dick on his mom. I picture him talking in a high pitch voice too.

And June 1986, Michael Motherfuckin' McDonald re-releases his second solo album, Nolecon Back, featuring his latest top 10 hit off the running, scared soundtrack, Sweet Freedom. Check it out. The spirit of love, oh, no. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, man, I gotta say this, this is quickly becoming my favorite episode of Time. Uh, November 10th, 1986, lowestize leaves, Koresh and charge of the cult.

He really gave it to her good, I guess. Dicked his way right into leadership. Uh, and he, and he does start going by the name of David Koresh around this time. He said the switch arose from his beliefs that he was now, uh, head of the biblical house of David first king of all the Israelites the name David Kresh is a combination of king David and the Hebrew name for Cyrus the great according to the bible Cyrus the great king of Persia was the

monarch under whom the Babylonian and captivity ended first year of his reign he was prompted by God to decree the temple in Jerusalem should be rebuilt and such Jews as cared to might return to their land for this purpose Maybe I should change my name right For this for the cult of curious. How about bow jangles Nimrod Nimrod Lucaphina Michael mother fucking juju Pudi Chicatilo No, no, I know like Puthi. I know I know get it for this maybe Nimrod Chicatillo. No, no, I, I know like Puthi. I know, I know get it for this. Maybe name

road Chicatillo. Luzofino Chicatillo, they're nice. I like her. I like, I like a rassul hero. Sometime when cold, hard, you can't even soil. Sun George, who assumed he would be the successor, not happy about Kuresh, getting the keys to the throne. A few months later, shickets so cray, cray. George Rodin refused it to acknowledge David's claim to power challenges. Mr. Kuresh to a very ghoulish contest. The challenges whoever can bring back the dead, that person deserves to be the true leader of the branched dividends. Can you imagine going to your church and here in your pastor priest Rabbi Imam throw something

like that down? Oh, you think you can do this better than me? You think you can, you think you can leave this flock? I prove it. Meet me at the cemetery midnight. We're gonna dig up sister Nancy. And if you can put some life back into her long dead, rotted corpse, well done by God, you can run this motherfucker. I especially think it'd be entertaining if the, if the head of the church actually said motherfucker in that situation. Well, Kuresh declines the challenge probably because he's more con man than profit.

Right, he's not actually totally insane, like we'll find out George is, and he knows his strength is in manipulative words, not in performing actual miracles. George we will soon discover is truly mentally ill. He is bananas crazy. People involved in this case say Mr. Rodin, then dug up a coffin from the cemetery

on the compound grounds. Oh my God. Inside is the skeleton of a woman identified in news reports. The time is Anna Hughes, former cult member who had died 20 years earlier, been dead 20 years. Could not have smelled very good. Got to be mostly skeleton at that point. Man, back to back sucks involving grave robbing by the way. I was strange as that? Mr. Road and put the coffin, he puts the coffin in the cult's chapel and three times tries to resurrect the woman with prayers. And I think we all know how successful that was. I wonder if Wal-Prain for a dead woman to pop out of a coffin that's been set up in the middle of a chapel. Anyone had some serious second guessing

going on about joining this cult, right? Does anyone whispering just like, this is weird, right? I mean, this is really weird, right? Meanwhile, Kuresh starts looking into laws that Mr. Rodin might be violating for the whole desecration of a corpse thing he's got going on. Finally, he reports to the MacLendon County Sheriff's office that Mr. says Mr. Rodin was gauged in corpse abuse. He's allegedly told he needs evidence. Not just hearsay, this is going on. He's pictures of what Rodin is doing. So he and some of his followers, they go Rambo. They go Rambo together some evidence on the morning.

This keeps getting weirder. On the morning of November 3rd, 1987, correction seven of his followers dressed in camouflage uniforms, combat boots, charcoal smeared under their eyes, like they're extras in platoon, armed with military style rifles and shotguns, they crawl onto the

Waco compound, right? They were still living in Palestine. The feud still separating the group. They prepared a map of the property pinpointed where each member of the party would take up their position. They sneak onto the grounds before dawn, make it a little hiding spots, wait until mid afternoon, you know, plane soldier before going into action when they when they moving to look to locate the corpse,

they find George Rodin hiding behind a tree with an oozie. I wish I was, this is fucking, this is so crazy. This is so just off the charts ridiculous. He's hide this, this, this damn near six-year-old man hiding behind a tree with an oozie to keep people from taking his, you know, corpse, he's trying to resurrect and a gun battle breaks out. Looney versus Looney. Uh, Rodin takes a bullet to the chest, survives, Vernon, his followers are arrested on attempted murder charges. Jerry finds a follower is not guilty. They claimed to have all just fired warning shots into the air. Cresch, you know, he claimed he was like, you know, trying to shoot near him, but not hit him. He tried separately. His trial ends at a hung jury.

Also wrote at this time to do who Cresch shot and almost killed, he ends up in jail on a separate contempt of court charge. He received during a whole different trial where he had a federal lawsuit going on. Something to equally stupid to keep your dick out of my mom. I'm sure. Correst is now accepted by all the branched divisions as a leader of the group. Rodin, he's on the outs, right? He, uh, Correst won the gun battle. So clearly, God wants him to lead the group. Uh, when Rodin gets out of jail, he's a completely broken man. He's come just just destroyed. He ends up, uh, staying in Texas, where a couple years later in 89, he kills another brand to Vittin. He thinks is both the rival for his power and an assassin sent by Keresh. Killed him with an axe.

Man, axe puts an exclamation point on homicide. Does it not? And he spends the rest of his short life in a mental hospital. Of course he does. After being found, not guilty by reason of insanity, he would escape twice from that mental hospital. He just kind of wandered around for a while before getting caught again. Second time he escapes, he suffers a heart attack that he then dies from. So now it's in the late 80s. Corretion's in full control of the brand of obedience. Vern officially has become David. You know, step 18, change your name, reinvent yourself into some type of living profit. During the next five years of his leadership, how it transforms the cluster of dilapidated

bungalows that have been at Mount Carmel into a fortress like compound, greatly expands its weapons arsenal, begins training his followers in military tactics. And this is important to remember as we go further into this story, right? This is not some harmless group of people just doing Bible studies. They're doing militia training. Legally changes, yeah, name, okay, I already said that, David, David, Chris, you know,

he's a sinful incarnation of Jesus Christ. Why not? If you can go, you know, with the whole, I'm a prophet of God, then go big, go, go full Jesus. He issues his new light declaration. Shortly after taking over power at the compound, proclaiming that while his male followers would eventually find their perfect mates in

heaven, their early wives and daughters were reserved exclusively for his sexual gratification and procreation. How the fuck is a dad? Do you allow that to happen to your family? Man, super important step 19 of becoming a cult leader. Let your followers know that you the only dude allowed to do some fucking. Make them think this is God's will. It's very important to castrate for all intent and purposes, the other male members of your group. Cult can't have a bunch of swing index. Just one,

one undisputed alpha male and lambs clothing. Can't have a bunch of other fornicators hanging around vying for the throne. Only the lamb is to be given the job to raise up the seed of the house of David. Isn't he? Keresh to ask rhetorically in a tape recorded message. He sent out to Australia in 89. Keresh ended up fathering multiple children by different women in the group. His House of David doctrine was based on the purported revelation that involved the procreation of 24 children by chosen women in the community. These 24 would were to serve as the ruling elders over the millennium after the return

of Christ. Right? Just, just, you know, Keresh, look, look, man, I'm not banging your wife because I think she's super hot and I'm a sex craze maniac. I'm not banging a lot of other people's wives and or daughters for a similar reason. Look, I got a crank out 24 future elders and I can't do that with one hot lady. If anyone's suffering here, it is me. Do you have any idea how chafed my balls are right now? Right? It's father and so many kids in the Texas heat. I gotta spread my God seat around and quick.

I know this is a hard pill to swallow, and you might think, why can't I help create future elders? Well, God, God works in mysterious ways, my friend, and right now a lot of that mystery is centered around my cocking balls. That's Book of Kharash, 2714. Well, the engine of courage as a tendency was this talent for proselytizing.

The entire enterprise, dependent on a steady flow of new members in the wakeo following followers who would turn over their income, often their savings and assets over to the cult. Step 20, give me all your shit. This crucial cult leader step. Jim Jones and Marshall Appaluy also understood the importance of this step, right?

Colts need money and the leader can't be working down a target. Can't be working as cashier best by, right? This crucial cult leader step Jim Jones and Marshall Apple White also understood the importance of this step right cults Need money and the leader can't be working down a target Can't be working as cashier best by right that isn't God's will it's got to be banging everyone back to the compound 77 acre property had been paid for by the branch of idiots during the previous 35 years operating in capital expenses We're provided not only from the sizeable contributions of members, but also from the cults businesses The cult ran an auto repair shop and also had a gun shop and went to a lot of gun shows. They made decent money in the thriving trade and of trading guns and ammunition bought from mail order firms.

They would buy, you know, these and then sell them at local gun stores. I'm sorry, they would buy them from local gun stores and mail order firms and then they would reseal them for a profit at these trade fairs, gun trade fairs throughout Texas. And because that is definitely God's will. God wants his profits to sell guns. God was super into guns. They didn't just sell guns among the products that they marketed. These fairs were souvenir plaques made out of hand grenade casings mounted on wood.

Yes, those plaques were worth some coin now, man. Couldn't find any for sale online. But on eBay, I did find some David Kresh business cards from the early 90s when he's trying to break into that music scene. He was trying to in California. His business cards say Messiah productions. They they offer up both vocal and guitar work. Try try pull on Charles Manson man. The cards by the way, only 49.95 mint condition, if you really into some Kresh souvenirs. Well, as members brought in money, Kresh traveled frequently in the Southwestern and Western US, also made trips abroad to Britain and Australia seeking new converts, offering the fringes

of established Adventist communities and colleges with his dimples, long curly hair, boyish granny imparted an innocent vulnerability, former disciples and family members described his deep Texas draw and folksy way of making his listeners feel that he was genuinely concerned about their spiritual well-being. Karech also developed an almost uncanny ability to identify prospective followers and use his easygoing, rock and roll manner, and encyclopedic knowledge of the scriptures to lure prospects into the wake of communion. Kresh also studied his market and he knew it well.

Christian fundamentalists, almost always seven day Adventists. And people whose lives seem to be spinning out of control with a loss of jobs, personal relationships, a sense of meaning and their religious beliefs has initial contact. You know, usually begin with a innocuous conversation about rock music scriptures. Maybe a, you know, just go grab a beer, you know, exchange telephone numbers.

Sometimes he would join an Adventist Bible study session and immediately draw attention to himself by his unorthodox interpretation of scriptures. Then he would capitalize on his high profile by contacting parishioners who seemed open to his radical preaching. And, veriably, former cult members said a prospect would be dropped quickly if he or she too forcefully challenged Christ's interpretation of the scriptures or seemed too independent minded. Man, he knew exactly what he was doing, right? No leaders welcome, right? Just sheep welcome, right? Just sheep.

Just sheep looking for a new shepherd. Followers wanted no one else need a plight. Yes, and he also didn't pick any new convert to head wives. He didn't want to fuck either, right? He got to be careful there. Oh, happy to have you join in the, John, happy to have you join in the family. God is, please, glory to God. Can't wait to have you see some Texas.

I'd love to see a picture of your wife. Oh, okay, you think. Oh, oh, huh. Oh, that's that's her there right right there with the mustache. The lady here. Oh, oh, gosh, I thought she was like a male powerlifter. Something when you first handed to me, are you sure that's your wife? The one with the brown chickleteeth and the real dirty fingernails. The with two cigarettes and amounts at the same time The one with with an obviously obviously leaking nipple leaking nipple milk through through her taz-maning devil sweatshirt You know hold on hold on John God is talking to me right now. Oh, no. This is bad God says there's no more room in wake up John. I'm so I'm so sorry

He said that heaven just filled up. Best of luck, John. I'm going to awkwardly walk away now and never return your calls. The other branch of Indians were crucial also to caressure success, getting new members because they reinforced recruits, believed that he or she, you know, was indeed in the presence of a prophet or as caressure's doctrine became increasingly egocentric towards the end, a Messiah. Step 21, get others to believe that you are the Messiah. This is the last step and becoming a cult leader. Future steps are all about remaining cult leader now. You've gone full cult leader once you become Messiah. You are essentially God now. You know, Messiah, God,

tomato, tomato. And how do you get people to believe all this? Well, you know, he'd been easing them into it for years, you know? I mean, it makes sense like how we got new recruits, you know, to make it with this kind of group thing thing. He had all these other people reinforcing that, yep, that's guys the Messiah. But the other people, he'd been easing them into that, you know, message for years, you know,

and I think once you get dudes to allow you to bang their wives and you've convinced them to stop banging their wives, right? The wives only belong to you. I don't think going Messiah after that is a big leap. I think they want to believe that you're the Messiah at that point. They want to believe what they've done. The horrible decision they've made is worth it. You know, some guys fucking your daughter and your wife.

You know, you want to believe he's got. Yeah, yeah. Another former member, a recalled a marathon Bible study sessions. He attended in Waco in 89 where cult members, including himself sat spellbound hour after hour, listening to Crescia's rambling Doomsday interpretations of the scriptures. And they would say, it's not, it's not just that he was enthralling. It's that everyone else was enthralled. And that made you feel that he must be special that his message was divine.

You know, this former member said, Ceresha's manipulative skills were particularly evident when he recruited entire families, often by listing one member and then progressively building on that success. That's a boss cult leader move right there, stringing a whole family inside the gates. Samuel Henry, a building contractor for Manchester, England, who lost his wife and their five children in the Waco fire, said he watched helplessly over a period of three years while one by one his children and finally his wife left home to join Kuresh and Waco. All were seven to Adventists.

And the boyfriend of his daughter Diana was studying to be an Adventist minister. It was during Kuresh's 1988 trip to England. Henry said that the boyfriend, John McBean, heard Kuresh speak and invited Diana to come and meet this great man of God, man wife and five kids. He must have attempted to visit the compound and killed that dude. I mean, wouldn't you be? If some religious nut took my whole family, I got to be honest, I would at least seriously consider murdering them, right?

What do you got to lose at that point? All right, it's okay. It's sure. I'll spend the rest of my life in prison. You already fucking took my life from me. Took my whole family. I'm gonna fucking put you in the ground. 1991, Koresh started unravel or I guess more appropriately, he started to further unravel. He started sleeping into the middle of the day while his followers did all the work,

keeping the compound running, then at night when the members fell exhausted and to bed, he'd race around through the single sex dormitories, ringing a loud bell. That's fun. Summating everyone to a marathon Bible study session in which he would issue rambling and sometimes incoherent Bible interpretations. That's not good. That's not good for Team Morrell, but they stayed with him.

He was real, real convinced that the end was coming fast. He had been read the signs. I'm totally speculating here that a lot of these guys made the shift or make this shift from command to true religious zealot at some point. And I feel like he started to do this now. He's starting to really, truly believe his own shit. Like maybe early on he was doing it partly because he thought he was even messaged from God,

but, but mostly for an ego trip. You know, girls and power, all that sex. But then he clearly starts to believe his own hype. He starts thinking that, you know, he really is truly bringing about the second coming of Christ. He starts talking constantly about the end of the world. First in general terms later in specifics, he's convinced that the federal bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms, ATF, have become suspicious of his weapons purchases and that they were going to, you know, come attack them. And, you know, they're going to infiltrate the compound.

The families of cult members had warned authorities in the US and Australia that the group was preparing for a confrontation with law enforcement, was prepared, prepared, excuse me, to commit mass suicide. And there's a new mini series about David Kresh, by the way, called Waco on the Paramount channel. I think I mentioned that. I can't remember if I mentioned that in the Instagram live. I did before this taping or this recording.

Paramount was falling on a spike and it's an entertaining show. Watch the first three episodes this past week, feature some of my favorite actors, Michael Shannon, John Ligazamo, Andrea Rysbro, Paul Sparks, Taylor Kitch plays Kuresh, and he's fantastic as well. But it annoys me that they make Kuresh out to be like a victim, like, you know, yes, take knowledge.

He's a perv who sleeps with victims wives, but they, I don't feel like they really touch on how young they were. And they really don't touch on the militia angle very much at all. They act like ATF had no reason for kicking off the battle that you're going to learn about in just a few minutes. They make the branch of Indians out to almost be these all American hippie types who just, you know, they have a few armed members for security, you know, but that's all. No, no, they were super militant.

They were, they were preparing for some kind of misguided confrontation before the ATF rate. The branch of Indians did start to get investigated by the ATF because a UPS driver delivered a box of grenades to the crash in the box broke open. He saw what was inside. I feel like that's a good reason to investigate someone. If one of my neighbors started getting boxes of grenades

delivered to their home, please investigate the shit out of them. And because I live in Northern Idaho, one of my neighbors probably is getting boxes of grenades delivered. So somebody look into it. I don't know if I'll say it now. The UPS driver called the sheriff's office who then notified the ATF. The ATF had already been looking at him. They'd already heard

reports of automatic gunfire from some of Keresha's militia drills. And now they're getting seriously concerned. They decided to investigate. In June of 1992, the ATF launches a formal investigation into Keresha's compound called Operation Trojan Horse. They were concerned about both the illegal manufacturing of firearms going on there and also allegations that child abuse that was being conducted by David Keresha and knowing what we know now. I would say they have a right to be concerned on both fronts. However, while the ATF did have good reason to investigate the wake of compound, the planning of Operation Trojan Horse wasn't solid. Should have been called Operation Idiot. Operation, this is going to be messy. Maybe operation, we should have rethought this. Operation, we should have thought harder or hired smarter people

to plan the operation. Total 77 agents would be involved in the initial raid on the compound. The plan was for one team to secure the arms room and Keresha's bedroom. Another team to secure the second floor were all the women and children were a third team to secure the first floor where all the men were and a fourth team to set up a perimeter so that people working on the construction site, I guess, nearby should not get to the compound. So building some more stuff over there. They did not want the cult members to be able to get to their weapons because they knew a major gun battle would ensue. Also possible that cult members would have better weapons than they had. And uh, and this part of the operation I get, this part of the operation is a possibility I

get, but I, I wish it in and we'll talk about this a little bit. I wish that, you know, they would have thought about just picking Kresh off individually when he came into town, maybe grabbing some of the members, you know, when they came into town on an errand, instead of like infiltrating the compound itself while Kresh is in it. Anyway, the undercover part of the operation involves the ATF setting up across the street from the compound itself while Christ is in it. Anyway, the undercover part of the operation involved is the ATF setting up across the street from the compound, and that's where they really fucked up. They put four 40 year old ATF officers, 40-ish year old, they were all exactly 40, and a little shack

on the neighboring property to pretend that they were students. That was their cover. Just, you know, just four 40-ish year old students living in a fucking shack in the middle of nowhere. That's what students do. They didn't even give him furniture And they also had them very, you know, move obvious surveillance equipment into the shack in cases Super suspicious, you know, oh, who are we? We're just some students just going to bury you universally

And you know, you know, rants expensive and white guy, so we got a good deal on the shack here And the four of us thought, you know, we don't need to live on great road. What we're just we're a little late for the party there. So why not just live in an unfurnished shack and constantly stare you guys with our binoculars. Robert Rodriguez, one of the 40, one of the 40 year old ATF officers and he was the one planted inside the cult to join the branch of audience, played by Lake Isamo in that show.

And the very beginning of the investigation he gets in and he's supposed to find out, you know, what weapons they had where they had. I mean, wasn't able to locate any in that show. And the very beginning of the investigation, he gets in. And he's supposed to find out, you know, what weapons they had, where they had. I mean, wasn't able to locate any of that information. He did find out that the branched of Indians were aware of the ATF and new array was coming. He did realize, you know, he knows that they're armed. You just can't find the weapons. He also finds out that David thinks the rate is part of God's plan, part of how the fifth seal of the apocalypse is going to be opened. You know, and he and his followers are ready to go to war with the ATF and some kind of holy battle. And he knows that David is not interested in being captured alive.

February 27, 1993, the Waco Tribune Herald begins publishing the sinful Messiah. Series of articles by Mark England and Darleen McCormick alleged that Kuresh had physically abused children in the compound, had committed statutory rape by taking multiple underage brides, which we know is true. children in the compound had committed statutory rape by taking multiple underage brides, which we know is true. Kresh also said, he was also said to advocate polygamy for himself and declared himself married to several female residents of the small community. According to the paper, Kresh declared he was entitled to at least 140 wives,

140. Yeah, my God. He was entitled to claim any of the females in the group as his and he's father at least a dozen children that some of these mothers became brides as young as 12 or 13. So if they're becoming moms as 12, they're getting fucked at 11. This is a complete pedophile. Uh, Christ did not care for this article or the rest of the articles mostly because you know they were true and they were horrible.

Uh, and this first article called on local authorities to do something. So the, so the ATF have been planning this raid operation Trojan horse. They push it up now to the following day originally planned for March 1st and the actual going into the compound would be called showtime that particular part of the operation. February 28th, 1993 day of the ATF raid Rodriguez that that undercover agent. He's in the compound early afternoon and learns the correction knows the ATF is coming that day a local news crew Had learned of an impending search warrant and the large ATF operation Uh, I was headed to the compound

But then they got lost and they had to ask a postman for directions and the postman was a member of the branch to videos And he immediately ran and warned Kuresh Right, so David sat Robert Robert Erdogan is down told him he knew he was a plant from the ATF He knew the ATF was coming. He shook Robert's hand. It told him good luck. And then he prepared for the next phase of God's plan, armed confrontation. This is where the ATF really did messed up because then Robert goes back to the ATF force

and tells them don't come today. Do not go in. David knows you're coming. They're getting ready right now. Things are going to be ugly for sure. They're preparing for a showdown, but the, but the leaders of Operation Dump Shit, don't listen, right? They, they plan their raid. They wanted some news coverage. You know, they wanted to look like the big heroes. They wanted to do it that day and they just

fuck it. They just go in and they underestimated the firepower and readiness of corrections followers and it would cost them to the lives of some of their men and it cost the lives a lot of branch to videos. Rodriguez would later testify about how the operation was mishandled and numerous ATF agents would be either let go or suspended because of this 945 AM, all right. Now we're just going to be going down to the timeline through February 28th through that Sunday for a while 945 AM 76 ATF agents arrive on the compound, get out of their vehicles, gun fired begins almost immediately. No one knows who fires the first shots.

ATF agents stated they heard shots coming from within the compound. Brands to video survivors claim the first shots came from ATF agents. It's going to be he said she said forever suggested reason for the shootings may have been an accidental discharge of a weapon, possibly by an ATF agent, causing the ATF to respond with fire from automatic weapons. Other reports claimed that the first shots were fired by the ATF dog team who had been sent in to kill these big ass guard dogs that were in the branch of Indian kennel. Right after the bullet start flying, David tells us followers, I don't want anybody to do

anything stupid. I'm going to go out and talk to him. I'm going to talk to him. Just don't take any action in your own hands. Let me handle it. He opened the front door, yells out, hey, wait a minute. There's women and talk to him. Just don't take any action in your own hands. Let me handle it. He opened the front door, yells out, hey, wait a minute, there's women and children in here. One of the agents sees him and starts running straight out him,

saying police search warrant. And this is when David messed up. He could have just stopped right there. He could have got down on his hands and knees, put his hands behind it. He could have been, but his hands behind his head. Excuse me, got down on his knees and just giving himself up to police, but he doesn't.

He doesn't and this is going to have huge ramifications. He backs up and he goes back in and he shuts the door as he tried to shut the door, his bullet start coming in and he gets shot in the wrist. The wrist is what I read in one article, but I didn't see a wound on his wrist later for an video from the compound in the TV show. It looks like he's gut shot. I don't know if anybody actually truly ever knows for sure where exactly he got shot. Rist, he gets shot.

Doesn't really matter for the story because he lives through the shooting. And I love that he is willing to tell the agents that there are women and children inside but he's not willing to turn himself into definitely saves their lives. 9.48 AM, three minutes after the shooting starts, Branch DeVidian and Waco Attorney Wayne Martin

called emergency services services calls 911. Please for them to stop shooting the residents, you know, they asked for a ceasefire audio tapes, record him saying, here they come again. That's them shooting. That's not us. The first ATF casualty is an agent who made it to the west side of the building where he was wounded. agents quickly took cover fired the buildings while the helicopters began their diversion. They sweep and low over the complex 150 feet away from the building building. The branched of Indians fire on the helicopters and actually hit them. They don't injure the crew, but they do get the helicopters to stop their mission and land. On the east side of the compound agents haul out two ladders set them against the side of the building.

Agents and climb onto the roof with their objective of securing the roof to reach Keresha's room and the arm storage on the west slope of the roof. Three agents reach Keresha's window and their crouching beside it when they come under heavy fire. One agent's killed another wounded. The third agent scampers over the peak of the roof joins other agents attempting to enter the arm's room. The window smashed a flashbang stun grenade is thrown in three agents entered the arm's room when another tries to follow a hail of bullets penetrates the wall and wounds him.

He's able to reach the ladder and slide to safety and agent fires with a shotgun at branch to variance who were shooting him until he's hitting the head and killed inside. I mean, this is a serious ask on battle inside the arms room agents kill the branch to Vityon gunman discover a cash of weapons. But before they can retrieve them, they come under heavy fire to her wounded and they, and they have to retreat as they escape. A third agent lays down covering fire killing a branched Davidian as, as he made his escape, he's hitting the head on a wooden support beam, you know, falls off the roof, but survives. An agent outside provides them with covering fire.

He's shot by branched Davidian. He's killed instantly dozens of ATF agents take cover many behind Branch Davidian vehicles exchanged fire with the Branch Davidians. The number of ATF wounded increases. An agent is killed by gunfire from the compound as agents were firing at Branch Davidians, perched on the top of the water tower. Exchange of fire continues 45 minutes into the rain, the gun into the raid, the gunfire begins to slow down because the agents begin to run low on ammunition. That's how serious this is.

This huge ATF operation, what, over 70 agents comes in and, and, and their lightness placed up for 45 minutes. And then they're like, all right, we're almost at a bullet. We got, we got to, we got to reassess. Well, the shooting continues, you know, sporadically for another two hours, eventually the local sheriff, the branch dividends had called when the shooting started, is able to get through to the ATF and tell them, you know, these guys want a ceasefire. 1046 AM, David calls 911, he talks to a local sheriff, you know, but how do you have a reasonable

conversation with someone using theological justification for illegal actions? You do not. 1130 a ceasefire is declared. Fort ATF agents are killed during the raid. Another 16 or wounded, five branched dividends are killed. FBI is brought in and take over negotiations with Kuresh. 4 p.m. David is able to call into a Texas radio station, K, R, K, R, L, D, and Dallas. Stars tell listeners that the US government is attacking women and children. The civil rights are being violated. And the United States shouldn't be going to war with their own citizens.

And you know what? The US government shouldn't go to war against the citizens. But its citizens shouldn't stockpile illegal, automatic firearms and start fucking kids. I mean, that's the thing that bothers me when people go off on the government about the Waco siege. It's not like he started a knitting club on the compound. It's not like he was, you know, smoke a little weed and they found out about it, you know, or found out that he let a couple of 17 year olds have have a few brusquies and listen to a little bit of the nudge. No, he's running a cult militia and he's a pedophile. Nearly six hours after

the 11 30 AMC's fire, Colt member Michael Schroeder shot dead by ATF agents who will let you fire to pistol at agents and see attempted to reenter the compound. The news media initially reported Schroeder was shot breaking out of Mount Carmel. His wife claimed that he was merely returning from work and not participated in the days earlier altercation Schroeder gets shot once in the eye, once in the heart, five times in the back. Mancation, Schroeder gets shot once in the eye once in the heart, five times in the back. Man, not necessarily these guys, five PM.

Same day, ATF spokesperson Ted Royster says gunfire has continued sporadically throughout the afternoon. So the ceasefire, not holding that well, seven, 30 PM, corrections interviewed by CNN, the FBI then instruct CNN not to conduct further interviews. They don't want people feeling sympathy for this guy. 815 p.m. Spread a gunfire has ceased a 51 day standoff has begun 51 days. Damn near two months, two months, almost of this compound being surrounded by numerous armed federal agents.

You know, unreal 10 p.m. Four children are released from the compound to authorities Monday, March 1st, and early morning, acting attorney general Stuart Kiersten gives an update to President Clinton who implicitly endorses a negotiated solution and asked to be advised if there is any change in strategy. Negotiations continue. And over the course of the day, 10 children are sent out of the compound. At least twice, Karesha suicide is not being contemplated. That's a pretty good day. That's probably the best day. March 1st and these in the siege Tuesday, March 2nd, in the early morning, Karesha makes a one hour audio tape of his religious teachings, adding a preamble promising

to surrender under the national broadcast of the tape at 130 p.m. the tape is broadcast nationally over the Christian broadcast network on the condition that he will surrender at five 58 p.m. word is related to negotiations from Koresh that got his spoken to him and told him to wait. How convenient. Oh, yeah, no, I was going to I was going to come out, but then guy just said, nope, no, you got to stay in you got to do some more negotiate. So attorney general states that the strategy is now to talk them out, no matter how long

it takes, two elderly members of the compound surrendered to authorities on March 2nd as well. March 3rd Wednesday, FBI offers to have murder charges dropped against the two elderly women, David into it left the compound the day before, speaking with negotiators, Keresh accounts for his failure to surrender as agreed by saying he's dealing now with his father as an allord and not with your bureaucratic system of government. Uh, how can we begin again again? Uh, he talks a whole bunch about the seven seals really focused on a seven seal talk. I like to pretend to make this whole story extra crazy that uh, that in his mind now he's actually talking about actual like seals like the animals.

Right. Like he's gone that crazy. Uh, David, how will we even know if we see in the seven seals? You know, seeing playing his day, doing their little seal crawl across the Texas prairie, tossing a ball back and forth with their noses, making seal noises. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I don't know if, is that how seals talk?

I don't know, I know how they look. I've never done a seal bark before. But you'll notice that. How can you not notice that? We're just going to wait in the compound until we see seals coming across the prairie. March 5th, Friday, nine year old Heather, Heather Jones. She leaves the compound where to note Pinder, her jacket from her mom, says, once the children are out, the adults will die.

Crash in his top aides, Steve Schneider, deny this. They deny they're contemplating suicide, but clearly there's been talk of it inside the compound. The FBI seeks the advice of experts and dividends on the likelihood of mass suicide. They receive inconsistent information. The FBI concludes that the dividends have a one-year supply of food. So that sucks for this age for them, including abundant military rations, you know, MREs, crasheresh continues preaching and threatening violence. Negotiations continue with Keresh over the weekend to know and FBI agents acknowledge frustration and getting him to agree to surrender.

There's concern that a mass suicide is a real possibility. Monday, March 8th, Keresh is healing well from his gunshot wound. Milka's delivered to the kids on the camp compound, videotape of children in the compound, a sent out by dividends. They actually also put little bugs on the milk cart so they can hear what was going on in there. Negotiator's log shows that, you know, when the tape is reviewed, there is concern that if the tape is released to the media, crash is going to gain too much sympathy because the kids appear to be happy and healthy at this point. Tuesday, March 9th, 2.15 a.m. electricity to the compound is cut off. And then Chris says he will

not talk further. He will not negotiate further until powers restored and they do restore it. Then Friday, March 12th, after several days of fruitless negotiations, more fruitless negotiations, power is then cut off inside the compound. And this is an attempt to undermine Chris's command, add some instability, hopefully get a little mutiny going in there. Sunday, March 14th, the FBI uses bright lights now to eliminate the component. Night, you know, add sleep deprivation to the stress of those living inside, try to force a surrender Monday, March 15th, FBI modifies our negotiation strategy. They, they refused to listen to anyone. And, and I, I don't know, excuse me, they refused to listen to any more. And I quote Bible, Bible,

I love this. I love they have officially as a government organization. They can't take any more seventh seventh seals mumble jumbo. Look, we're going to keep the lines of communication open, David. We want this to work, but we will not hesitate to cut off all communications. If you don't just shut the fuck up about the seals, okay? We have day after day of your goddamn seal talk. Please, I'll wake myself up in the middle

of the night. Just scream. Sam seals sick of it. Thursday, March 18th, the FBI began speaking to all those inside the compound via a loud speaker urging them to surrender telling those inside they will be treated fairly. If they do surrender, no one does surrender. Friday, March 19th, Kresh says he's willing and ready to come out and face the music. And then he doesn't, I guess God, you know, changes mine again. Two other dividends do come out of the compound Saturday, March 20th, another member leaves a compound, a few more members, ex of the following day, also on the following day, FBI begins blasting music via the loudspeakers into the compound, including, you know, hours and hours

of tie bett and chance. David says, no more people are going to come out until the music stops. So clearly they're getting under a skin Monday, March 22nd, the FBI makes a new offer to Kuresh, allowing him to communicate while in jail after he's captured, you know, among other things, provided all dividends began leaving the compound as of 10 a.m. on March 2030. Doesn't take the deal. Another division leaves the compound the following day. Wednesday, March 24th, the FBI calls Kuresh a liar and a coward during a.m. on March 20, 30. Doesn't take the deal. Another division leaves the compound the following day. Uh, Wednesday, March 24th, the FBI calls Kressa Lier and a coward during

a press conference. I have to agree with that assessment Monday, March 29th, for nearly two hours, David Kressy and famed Texas criminal defense attorney, Dick Duguerren, meet at the door of the compound. They speak two more times following day. Uh, Duguerren still convinced Kressy. What has surrendered? Had the FBI been more patient? I just, I just read an interview with him about it from a few weeks ago. Tuesday, April 1st, D'Guerin meets with Keresh again this time inside the compound. Tells Keresh that the FBI have agreed to drop all charges, convinces Keresh to walk outside the compound. The second David Keresh, uh, Keresh crosses the threshold of the front door.

FBI sniper shoots him twice in the lake and then DeGuerne yells, April fool's mother fucker. Oh, man, I just got you good. Oh, man, I got you good, April fool's. No, DeGuerne tells the FBI that the Davidians will surrender sometime honor before April 10th. For the next week, there's just a lot of sitting in waiting. Wednesday, April 7th,

Kresh refuses to confirm an exit date with negotiators. So he is just infuriating to deal with. Uh, Friday, April 9th, they would send a message to the FBI saying that the heavens are calling you to judgment. Two experts analyzed the letters for others sent over the next few days and conclude he's probably possibly psychotic and has no intention of leaving voluntarily. The FBI begins to finalize a plan to use tear gas now to flush everyone out of the compound. At for several days of more attempts at fruitless negotiations,

Keresh gets back onto more Bible Babel and refuses to exit the compound until God tells him to do so. Wednesday, April 14th, Keresh sends a message to the FBI that he will not surrender until he has a written manuscript explaining the seven seals. Oh my gosh, do you hear what I'm saying? He's not going to surrender until, you know, he is just completely, perfectly explained the seven seals. Everybody knows where he's coming from.

And I bet a collective just over fuck's sake is just uttered by the entirety of law enforcement working this case. Following day, the FBI concluded, uh, Kresh has enough water on the compound to last for a significant period of time. So, you know, at this point, it's likeresh has enough water on the compound to last for a significant period of time. So, you know, at this point, it's like, how much longer are they going to wait? This guy has, you know, food and water to last probably months and months and months, you know, uh, enough's enough. Sunday, April 18th, President Clinton signs off on the tear gas plan, armored vehicles,

clear, uh, Kresh's Chevy Camaro, other vehicles away from the front door of the compound. Although the FBI warns the dividends to stay out of the tower. They hold children up to the windows. And in one window, hold a sign saying flames await. Okay. Now Monday, April 19th, we're going to go kind of hour by hour on this one, too. This is, this is the big day. This is the last day.

Fifth, 559 AM, Negotiator, telephone, the dividends, notifying them of an imminent tear gas assault. A message is read over the loudspeaker advising the dividends they are under arrest and they should come out. 602 AM, two FBI combat engineering vehicles or CEVs begin inserting tear gas into the compound through

spraying nozzles attached to a boom. 604 AM, the video starts shooting. FBI begins deploying Bradley vehicles to insert ferret rounds, which are barricade busting containers of tear gas through the windows 631 AM. All right, the entire the entire building is being gassed 730 AM C.E.V. breaches the front side of the building on the first floor as it injects gas 758 gas is inserted in the second floor of the back right corner of the building FBI calls for more gas from outside wake up 920 48 more ferret rounds arrive from Houston 930 with

a supply of ferret rounds dwindling one CEV is having mechanical troubles high winds are blowing the gas away another CEV begins enlarging the opening in the middle front of the building from which the dividends could escape a third CEV with a boom, but lacking a gas delivery system breaches the rear side of the building to create openings near the gymnasium 1130 a.m. The C.E.V without a gas delivery system breaches the backside of the compound Concentrating on the back right corner near the warehouse gymnasium 1140 a.m. The last fair at rounds are delivered 1145 wall on the rear white right side of the billion collapses. 12.07. Davidians start simultaneous fires at three or more different locations within the compound

and observer report seen a male starting a fire in front of the building. 12 12 p.m. Negotiators calling for rest to lead the dividends out to safety. Nine dividends. Flea the compound are arrested. 12 25 p.m. The FBI here systematic gunfire coming from inside the compound, arrested. 1225 PM, the FBI here, systematic gunfire coming from inside the compound, leaving several agents, or giving several agents the impression that the

dividends are either killing themselves or killing each other. 1241 firefighting efforts begin agents, enter tunnels to search for survivors, especially children, none are found. It is all over now. In all 76 branched dividends die. Nine survived the fire on April 19th, an independent investigation by two experts from the University Maryland's Department of Fire Protection and Engineering, conclude the compound residents had sufficient time to escape the fire if they had chosen. So if they had so desired, a top autopsy records also indicated that at least 20 branch dividends were shot, including five children under the age of 14, three year old Dalen gent was stabbed in the chest.

The medical examiner who performed the autopsy believed these deaths were mercy killings by branched dividends trapped in the fire with no escape. David Kuresh's burn corpse is identified by dental records and autopsy reveals he died by a bullet to the head it's inconclusive as to whether or not the wound was self-inflicted. And the destruction of the compound and the death of its cult leader, David Kuresh,

takes us out of this time-stock timeline. Good job, soldier. You made it back. Barely. So that's what happened to wake up. If you do a little research yourself, you're going to find a lot of criticism regarding the government's handling of the situation. Many felt it was a display of abuse and power. And as I mentioned earlier,

ATF agents did lose their jobs over how it was handled. You know, there's all these photos of like tanks outside of house with kids in the windows. And if you just look at that photo and don't understand the context, yeah, it looks real bad. Uh, you know, and basically, you know, the main mistake of the, the ATF was continuing to go in and go in aggressively after undercover intelligence revealed the, the dividends were prepared and ready for an armed confrontation.

You know, they should have waited, you know, they could have waited until crash was off grounds and questioned him then possibly escorted him into the compound to reduce the risk of confrontation. It was a poorly planned confrontation as far as timing goes, especially coming on the heels of the Ruby Ridge standoff and Idaho, the year before, you know, which was another example of the government coming in guns blazing against you, a citizens on private property, you know, and the Ruby Ridge standoff, a teenager and unarmed woman were killed. However, you know, Randy Weaver, the man on the other side and the Ruby Ridge standoff teenager and unarmed woman were killed. However,

you know, Randy Weaver, the man on the other side of the Ruby Ridge confrontation, also had a warrant out for his arrest for failure to appear to zone court date on gun charges. You know, so again, he wasn't some innocent dude, you know, fucking whittling dwarf figurines out of Pinewood or some random shit on his property, you know, bother and no one. He was associated with Aryan Nations militia, you know, did the ATF mess up with Wake up? Yeah, did the FBI, you know, I don't know, maybe, you know, no one's perfect. But the biggest fuck up of all, the real guilty party in all of this is clearly David

Kuresh. He doesn't molest kids. He doesn't train a militia and arm them with illegal weapons. None of this happens. Period and a story. He could have gave himself up. It ends there. I get sick of assholes doing something horribly illegal, then blaming cops for not, you know, doing their job properly. And then the public coming down on law enforcement, right? Oh, they're shooting at women and kids. Yeah, they're being

fucking shot at. Wake up. You know, pay attention to the fucking story with your crazy comments. What are they supposed to? Just, you know, just take being shot at for as, you know, what, and definitely until they run out of Bulletin something like, come on, have some common sense. You know, you know, you don't want cops to the government fucking with you. Well, then follow the law. You know, I have plenty of problems with the government, but, but, you know, but both times I've had to go to court, one for DUI, one for city theft and malicious mischief when I was refreshed out of college doing some jackass stuff. I pled guilty immediately because I was guilty and I accepted the punishment immediately without question.

Why? Because I did it, you know, but that's just my opinion. That's just my opinion about how people interact with law enforcement. That's my opinion on Waco. There are a lot of other opinions. And let's look at some of those. Let's look at some of those other opinions with some idiots on the internet. A lot of interesting commentary on the web about Waco so much user Jerry Colp posted a video

called David Kuresh tells the truth about Waco in July 19 2009. And in this five minute long video, you know, Kuresh doesn't go on and on about the seven seals, like he does in a lot of other videos. And he makes a lot of intelligent points, but how the government shouldn't have the right to engage a military type of solips on its own citizens. And he also brings up seemingly valid points about how the government could have just attained him when he was in Waco, running errands, you know, how they didn't need to, you know, assault the whole compound and a big show of force.

And he comes across pretty sympathetic here. If you don't watch other videos, if you don't understand anything else about the story, if you don't have all the details, user, uh, case meant one sums up how I feel about the whole situation pretty well, typing, I don't have much faith in the system, but I don't have much faith in self-proclaimed incarnates of Christ either. Exactly. Case meant one. Exactly. Case, man, one, exactly too much media focus in the years since on what the government did wrong and their reaction

to a coat, not enough focus, in my opinion, and what the branch to videos did wrong to bring that shit on themselves. This video really has brought a lot of religious job whack doodles out of the woodwork, loony tunes like Richard Keonis, who post this was an attack on Christianity, the government attacked a religious group. Since when is it against the law to bear arms to stockpile weapons? It's not. But yet our government is stocking up and militarizing the police force, giving them hummer vehicles, tax, what the fuck seems to me where it war with the government is

time to rise up. Okay, listen, Richard, can I call you Dick? I'm gonna call you Dick. You seem like a dick. Listen, Dick, uh, this wasn't an attack on Christianity. It was an investigation into a very well-armed and trained militia who were stockpiling illegal weapons and preparing for apocalyptic war. You don't have the right as a U.S. citizen to stockpile automatic illegal weapons,

right? They had good reason to show up armed and in numbers. If they were going to show up and do it in that way. Oh, and they were fucking kids. There is that. Their leader was fucking kids, right? And they really did have so many weapons, man. They had 60 M 16 machine guns, 60 AK, 47 assault rifles, numerous other legal weapons, huge cash weapons. You know, they would buy legal semi automatic weapons of gun shows, you know, and from gun dealers and, uh, and then modify them into, into going fully auto, which even in Texas, even during the 90s was illegal and should be, uh, you want to play with bigger guns? Well,

sign up for the armed services and, and why is our government militarizing the police, their dick? Well, so they can stop US citizens like Koresh from attacking other US citizens. What if the wake-aco siege didn't happen? Does anybody ever think about that? What if they don't, what if it doesn't happen? How long before, you know, what it have taken before those guys went on the offensive somewhere? They were training, right? You don't train not to attack.

You don't train to become an army not to go and attack eventually. You know, eventually that army was going to fight. Who are they going to fight? You know, were they going to attack City Hall? they're going to go Oklahoma City, you know, bomb an ATF building, something like that. And by the way, I was thinking about this. If you replace Christianity with Islam in this story, nothing else, change out nothing else. Just switch Islam out for Christianity. Very different reaction in the comment section from the public in general, because of underlying racism and misunderstanding surrounding Islam.

If Kresh would have been Muslim and would have had brown skin instead of white, if you looked more like Muhammad than David, oh, man, people aren't going to go easy on that at all. Suddenly, he's a child fucking satanic terrorist who needs to be blown off the face of the earth and people are cheering on behalf of the ATF. Matt, right, they're at their begging them just to blow up the compound. So suddenly to tear us out. User Liger the claw tries throwing some sanity into the comment section posting, I feel

sorry for the sheep that fell for his honest and straightforward attitude that bought their loyalty. Speaking about Kuresh, to the point of giving up their wives, allowing the sexual abuse and inbreeding in breeding to occur from one man leading his disciples. What happened to Waco is a tragedy, but everyone, they are chose their fate by following a zealot who backed his practice with weapons and fueled the attack with his insanity. Exactly like her. And I appreciate the Napoleon Dynamite reference in your username.

Then user SBBU replies with more crazy. Oh, so because they followed a religious nut, the government was justified in murdering them and their children, you're a sheep. No, SBB they followed a religious nut, the government was justified in murdering them and their children, you're a sheep. No, SBBU following a religious nut doesn't make murder justifiable. You ask clown. However, if you don't think following some pedophile who is also building an army equipped with legal weapons is putting you in harm's way, you are fucking super dumb. You're ignorant. You're the sheep here, SBBU, blindly following whatever nonsense conspiracy the internet throws your way. Uh, some random racism makes this way into the post. Of course it does. User, lost time, repost the Zionist occupied

government shot first. Here we go again with the Jews, man. Always with the Jews in the comment section. Always have to blame them. Always thinking that some, there are some puppet masters. So many idiots still believe that old Russian anti Zionist propaganda, you know, any narrative involving cover-up or suppression of Christian freedom and the user behind it. Is that ever going to go away? I doubt it. User Trico Martinez posts most agents being Latino had a lot to do with this disaster. What an especially odd post coming from someone with the last name of Martinez. Ease up on the self hate their TRIGO.

Ease up. Jeremiah Bruner goes Captain obvious, social justice warrior posting nothing he did have the FBI or any of them the right to burn kids alive. Period. Good post Jeremiah. Way to get that way to get that out there, buddy. You're right. He didn't do anything that justified the FBI burning kids alive.

Part of the reason the FBI did not burn any kids alive, the branched dividends burned themselves alive because they were lunatics. They were absolutely crazy. They chose to follow a dude who convinced him to either be fucked by a polygamist who claimed to be a prophet of God and keep fakeers and second coming to Christ or let their wives and young daughters be fucked by that guy. The youngest girl given to David to be his wife was 11, 11 years old. David, or I should say Vern was in his 30s. Dude was a pedophile again, not some victim of the government.

And Clayton High Tower posts some more utter misinformed nonsense, saying the media gave false accusations of what was going on. They don't want freedom or religious of religion or free speech. When people were trying to get out, they were mowed down by the government, even children. Uh, not true Clayton, not true. One of my best friends from college, so I won't name because I didn't ask permission to use a story in this episode. I don't want to bother him or bring up a past tragic events. Well, two of his cousins were raised by his parents, you know, along with him, you know, and his brother raised his siblings. Kids, I met several times years ago.

Kids who grew up to be amazing adults. One of them actually owns a small business less than a mile from where I am right now. You're in CDA and the suck dungeon. And these kids lived in Waco. And they were some of the kids released to federal agents at the beginning of the siege. They walked out and they didn't get mowed down. Their mom died in the gun battle with the ATF agents. She was shot, you know, day one.

Their dad died in the fire on the last day. And, uh, and they did tell their story. They told the story of a religious lunatic who took child brides, one of these kids, just a few years away from becoming a child bride herself. They told stories of Kresh routinely discussing sex openly with even the youngest girls in Bible lessons, little tiny kids grooming them as pedophiles do. So fuck David Kresh. I feel sorry for his followers. Glad he died. Only wish he could have had a more painful death. Maybe I wish he could have lived long to be raped in prison or even hardened felons don't care for child molesters. He was not a revolutionary. He was not a martyr. He was not some big proponent of, you know, free speech and freedom of religion. It was trash.

Mark Harrison posts even more stupidity might take on the whole deal as it unfolded back then was that they were not hurting anyone. If folks want to believe whatever they want is their own business, not mine. If folks want, you know, to own weapons of any kind as long as they're not using them to commit crime, they should be able to protect themselves. Whoever they choose. Well, Mark, let me just say this, your take is shit. Your take is complete dumb shit. Look, I'm libertarian more than I'm democratic Republican.

I want the government involved in my life as little as possible. However, I do want them involved in public safety and letting maniacs own weapons of any kind as long as they're not using them to commit crimes is absurd. What are you talking about? It's not safe for the rest of us. Really just, you know, fuck it, let them have some tanks. Give us some assault helicopters. Give them as much plastic explosives as they can get their hands on. Let them stock up on Napalm and some light missiles. What's the worst it could happen?

Oh, the worst it could happen is they could, you know, kill tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people. You know, that's what, none nuts, you know? Got so many people are dumb, it's terrifying, sad. And they were hurting people, Mark Harrison. They were hurting kids by letting them marry a grown-ass man. How do you not see that? Are you a pedophile?

It feels like these comment sections are full of people who want to fuck kids themselves. And that's why they defend David, right? Maybe not. I don't know. The very least, the comment sections under these videos are loaded with idiots of the internet. The wake-o siege, man, it divided America. Some felt that the branched divisions were dangerous whackles, you know, who brought horror upon themselves.

Others felt they should have been protected by the constitution, protect, practice their new faith. You know, as they should choose, April 19th, 1995 Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh claimed to be avenging the divisions when he killed 168 people in his attack on the Alfred P. Murrah federal building. We'll suck on Tim at some point down the road. I'm sure the events of Wake Ospirred both criminal prosecution and civil litigation on August 3rd, 1993, a federal grand jury returned a superseding 10 count indictment against 12 of the surviving branched dividends. Grand jury charged, among other things, the branched

dividends had conspired to, aided, and abetted in the murder of federal officers, unlawfully possessed and used various firearms. The government dismissed the charges against one of the 12 of the branched dividends, pursuant to a plea bargain. After a jury trial, last year, nearly two months, the jury acquitted four of the branched dividends on all charges. Additionally, the jury acquitted all of the branch of Indians on the murder related charges, but convicted five of them on lesser charges, including 80 and a betting, the voluntary manslaughter of federal agents. Eight branched of Indians were convicted on firearms charges. Some were sentenced to 40 years in prison. All branched dividends have been released now from prison as of July 2007.

A lot of shadiness does appear to have happened, you know, on behalf of the government in the rate. Some believe, despite some investigation findings, that the government, for example, started the wake of fire. Some say tear gas canators they use were flammable. Others said they use pyrotechnic advices during the fire and then covered up that usage. Independent filmmaker Michael McNulty came across some evidence that appeared damaging to the government. He found a showcasing from a certain type of tear gas round that could start a fire. A device that justice department had denied using for

more than six years. Congress was misled on this. There is no question about it said, assistant US attorney Bill Johnson, the top justice department official, Waco. Uh, he, you know, uh, he, he worried that, you know, people in the just department were hiding the truth. However lying doesn't mean they started the fire. It could have been a, oh, shit. This is going to make us look bad. No one needs to know kind of situation. Others still believe the government fired the first shots. Maybe they did, uh, a lot of government agents involved have expressed regret. I, I, I do think it's safe to say the government fucked up in its handling of Waco to what degree we'll never know. But again, again, no one

fucked up more than David Kuresh, right? He is the reason all of this happened. And that is all I have to say on this topic today, almost. There are still top five takeaways. Time suck. Top five takeaways. Number one, David Kresh had roughly 20 wives inside his Waco compound. Definitely as young as 12, some say one was only 11 when he started having a sexual relationship with her. Former member David Buns says that when Kresh took up with one girl, he was quote, having problems penetrating her because she was so young and little. He told her to start using tampons, the kind that you insert in to make herself larger. Still think he's a victim of government harassment. Still think he's just a proponent of freedom. Number two, while the government admitted it could have handled

Waco in a better manner, a federal judge dismissed a wrongful death civil lawsuit brought by branched dividends in 2000, clearing the government of any wrongdoing in the deaths of about 80 members of the religious sect during the disastrous 1993 standoff at the group's compound, your way, co-texas number three, a Texas Ranger testified that about 300 assault rifles and pistols were found in the charred remains of the branch to be in compound hours after the structure burned to the ground in 93 Roughly 60 of those were fully automatic M16s You want to form a militia go for it, but you don't get to form an actual army unless you want to show down with the US government

And you will lose that showdown just like Koreshjit number four when he was 25 David was sleeping with both a 14 year old and a 68 year old creepy and in 1980s, Texas legal as long as you were married. And you can still get married in Texas at the age of 14 with parental consent, parental consent until just a few months ago until the law finally changed. Growth. And number five new info, according to a report on siege put together by the US Justice Department, the branch to Vityan compound standoff with the ATF and the FBI was quote, unprecedented in the annals

of American law enforcement. Never before had so many heavily armed and totally committed individuals barricaded themselves into a fortified compound in a direct challenge to lawful federal war. Time suck. Top five takeaways. challenge to lawful federal war. Time, suck, tough, five, take away. David crash sucked. Glad that dude is not amongst us anymore, not a fan. Now come out and see me.

Show's been too much fun. They really have been, and the live shows have been fucking the best lately. Like little cult get together of our own, man. But ones where I don't, I don't pretend to be God and I don't try to fuck any of your kids So you know my shows are fun good cult meetings So come out and see some Minneapolis, Brea, Cleveland coming up in March Charlotte Atlanta, Birmingham at Huntsville Nashville Houston Dallas Salt Lake City in San Francisco coming up in April I forgot about the Salt Lake City to put that on the calendar

So sorry get about that more info up at Dancomans.tv. Check out the dates, snatch up some tickets, wear your time sucks shirts, or don't just show the hell up. Have a great time. Got a new product in the time six store times. It's a weird one. For the first time ever, you can sniff the suck. You can smell it. Turned out the suck smells like either vanilla or strawberry. Who knew Nimrod? That's who? Why not smell the suck while listening to it on your commute with these sweet master sucker automobile air fresheners for five bucks in the store or four bucks for you space lasers with your merch discount made from three hundred and seventeen percent panda wet spot juice. Not only do these air fresheners smell delicious, they also ward off evil forces. The forces of Luciferina guaranteed or none

of your money back. So throw it in your shopping cart today. Start snorting some suck. Danger brain wanted to do some air freshers and when I saw there are awesome design man, I just couldn't say no. I know it's weird, but they're so cool. Coolest air freshers I've ever seen and they're in the time sucks. Store now.

Thanks to social media master Sidney Shives, events coordinator and amazing patron saint of the secret space lizards at secret space lizards. Social media accounts Harmony Velocamp show notes editor extraordinaire Jesse Doberner, the entire time suck team, including interns, Mattie Teeter and Diana Marino. Huge thanks to the lily twins, Sarah and Reba knocking out of the park. OG Bojangles research team members. They did a lot of the research on this episode. Thanks for all the reviews.

Spread in the socket means so much. You know, we're moving towards 3000 in its amazing. Every review helps every time you guys write the most wonderful things. I read the reviews in the way that iTunes does their analytics. More reviews, moves you up the charts, which allows more people to find you. And it means so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, all the suckers. You suggested this topic. Kevin Barnett, Julius Justin Nance, Crosby Whitney, Noah Saldania, Joseph Lundberg, Hannah Carpenter, Caitlin Young, Jared Yvonne, Ryan Wolfe, Anthony Engelman, Scott Stevens, so many others I know I'm missing. Thanks again for suggesting this topic. Next Monday on Time Suck, we suck on the unsolved murders of two-pock and biggie, hell,

yes. Go and hip hop on the suck. Go into my youth.olved murders of two pocket biggie. Hell yes. Going hip hop on the suck, going into my youth. Who killed two pocket core? Who killed biggie? Smalls. Are there are there any legitimate suspects? Why do they both still have massive name recognition years after their deaths still selling records? Man, shit, two pocket released four platinum selling records of original music after he died. Two pockets only 25 when he was shot four times in Las Vegas. The Tories B.I.G. was only 24 when he got shot four times too. Both were quickly becoming the biggest names and hip hop what happened.

Let's suck on it. All right, this next Monday. And now it is time for Time S. Updates, get your time, sucker updates. First update comes in from a sweet sucker named Jacob Wright. Hey, Dan, listen to the IRA episode and wanted to tell you I disagree with the update on suicide at the end of the episode, my sister killed herself and I personally believe that it is completely self-exact. I just want to point out that it's okay to think that as well and it's okay to have compassion

for those people, but people who have already lost someone to suicide should not be judged by others for thinking badly that person. Sorry for rambling. I just want to show that everyone agrees differently. Thanks and have a good one. Thank you, Jacob. Man, absolutely, man, you have every right to feel how you feel on that. And I'm so sorry that happened with your sister, man. My heart goes out to you and absolutely, and I thank you for taking the time to send that message. Yes, we do all have the right to deal with our grief in these situations and our own ways. And now a little bit of love from a fellow Idaho sucker,

man, this is from Alden Juarez. Alden says, hi, I'm a new sucker, maybe too new, as I'm not even confident, that's what I should call myself. But I love your podcast. Started with your slender man episode was recommended on Reddit. That's cool. I don't even know. And I'm hooked. Now I'm working my way through all the episodes from the beginning. I'm a true crime enthusiast and lover of the creepy and weird. Hell yes. Oh, Luciferina is strong in you and really enjoy how much you research while I love other true crime comedy theme podcasts. Often they only hit the tip of the iceberg. Usually I end up on a deep dive with other shows, but I truly feel satisfied with your episodes as another Idahoan from a small

town home day, home day, a girl, but now live in Boise. I feel proud to have you out there talking about them lizard aliens, murderers and all those other time suckin topics. Hope to come to a live show one day. I'll stop with the cringey gushing. Just wanted to let you know you're doing great and you can get back to sucking all show one day. I'll stop with the cringey gushing. Just wanted to let you know you're doing great and you can get back to sucking. Alden, oh, I love, oh, thank you. Thank you. It's very sweet of you.

It's very sweet of you. And yes, love, love my Idahoans, love being an Idaho. And I'm so glad you enjoyed the show. And that's cool that there's some shit on Reddit. So thanks guys for putting stuff in other places and getting the word out. Okay, one more for the end of this long episode of the day. Avery Augustino, just to show how great time suckers are.

Avery says, what's up, fucker? Just wanted to wish you luck at the Ferndale show recording. I bought tickets for the events, but Luciferina decided to curse me with the mother fucking flu. Damn, Luciferina. Anyways, good luck with the night. And I hope to see you back in Michigan for more shows in 2018. Since Cyril,

since Cyril, excuse me, Luciferna's bitch, Avery. Man, how cool is that? Man, this guy's sick with the flu. He can't go to the show that he bought tickets for and he still takes the time to wish me good luck. And that is the kind of guy I find that basically all of you time suckers are. Man, I love you guys. I mean, you need to show you, you're just truly the fucking best.

I'm so lucky to have you guys, you know, want to, you know, interact with, with my life and let me do what I love and be so supportive and have fun. And it really is starting to feel like a big old time suck family. Our own cult, but I'm not going to go Messiah. I'm not going to go profit. I promise. I just, I just want to research more weird shit and write more comedy. So thank you guys so much.

Thanks for the updates. Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. Thanks for another fun suck time suckers. Have a great week. See some of you this Saturday, here at the little get together in a CDA. Please don't fucking kids or buy

or make illegal automatic weapons. And you know, above all, just keep on sucking. [♪ music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in