Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 81 - The Stanford Prison Experiment

Episode Date: April 2, 2018

The Stanford Prison Experiment is one of the most famous psychological studies ever conducted. In 1971, newly tenured psychology professor Richard Zimbardo turned the basement of the Stanford University psychology department into a fake prison where young male volunteers were divided into the roles of Prisoner and Guard . The study was meant to last two weeks. But the brutality of the Guards and the suffering of the Prisoners was so intense that it had to be terminated after only six days. Find out just crazy things got, and what we learned about human nature from this incredible experiment, today, on Timesuck! Timesuck is brought to you by My West Coast Buds, the podcast! Take an inside look at cannabis, coffee, comedy, and spirits. Timesuck is brought to you today by by the socially conscious and fantastic on-line mattress store LEESA! Go to www.leesa.com/timesuckto get $125 off AND a free pillow!! Timesuck is also brought to you by American Addiction Centers. AAC is revolutionizing the addiction treatment industry with holistic, evidence-based treatment practices. Need help? Call American Addiction Centers at 888-489-5018 - available 24/7. Your life is worth more than your addiction. Don't wait until it's too late! Merch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ Want to try out Discord!?! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG, @timesuckpodcast on Twitter, and www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna be a Space Lizard"? Go here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast Sign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits. And, thank you for supporting the show by doing your Amazon shopping after clicking on my Amazon link at www.timesuckpodcast.com

The Stanford Prison Experiment is one of the very few subjects we've tackled that I've actually studied a bit before. I remember learning about it during an experimental psychology class at Gonzaga University back around 1998. It was probably wearing some kind of smashing pumpkins or radio head t-shirt back then. Definitely was rocking a few earrings each year. My hair may or may not have been bleached. Anyway, I remember my professor explaining that the study shed light on a question that I had been

thinking about in one of my other classes, a history class on the Holocaust. How could they do it? How could Germans do to the Jewish people, to the Romani, to homosexuals, to political objectives, what they did? How could they treat them so savagely, kill innocent people that way? Well in addition to a lot of other factors, part of their ability to dehumanize their prisoners may have been the psychology of conforming to the expectation to their role of the captor.

Turns out when you give someone the ability to punish others, when you put someone in charge of others and give them the ability to reward or punish others, they tend to behave in some very interesting ways and often in some not-so-great ways. And we know a lot of this now because of the study we're talking about today. Philip Sombardo and the others who conducted this now famous experiment in 1971 found that people behaved in all together startling ways, ways that are no longer as surprising

thanks to what we know now. days in 1971 explored today on Time Suck. Happy Monday Time Suckers, some Dan Comments, and you are listening to Time Suck. So thank you. Love the way you're living your life right now. Today's Time Suck is brought to you by the My West Coast Buds podcast hosted by comic time sucker weed wizard Joe Dimeo. My West Coast Buds is an inside baseball look at cannabis coffee comedy and spirits. All of Joe's favorite vices. It's a funny conversation where you learn a lot about the explosive new industry of legal marijuana. This week's episode also released today

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of cannabis consultation for being a time-sucker. Email him at mywestcoastbudsadgmail.com, mention the suck to get that huge discount. Email also in the episode description. All right, it's gonna be really fun show today. We're getting into this shit quick right after a couple quick announcements. Those black fifth generation danger brain, 251% elderly moles skin t-shirts back in stock in all sizes. Now, start for the long wait on that old moles man starved and beaten with hammers to death to put that

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Live podcast only one I'll be doing until until Orlando late in the summer, so get your ass there No Phoenix up next, live time stock podcast, inspo can't watch in May six live podcast. Only one I'll be doing until Orlando, late in the summer. So get your ass there, right? Come to the time, so come to the Flatter tour, get a get a Flatter tour t-shirt that you can only get at the shows, more tour dates at Dancomans.tv, time suck 81, Stanford, Stanford Prison Experiment, right now. Okay, so I feel like the best thing to lay out first is a quick summary of the Stanford

Prison Experiment before we dive into the details. Or at least, you know, what it was intended to be, a little summary of that. 1971, Stanford Psychology Professor Philips Embardo, funded by the US Office of Naval Research, led an investigation into the causes of difficulties between guards and prisoners in the US Navy and the US Marine Corps. Zimbardo and his team aimed to test the hypothesis that the inherent personality traits of prisoners and guards, you know, that that's the chief cause of abusive behavior in prison. Basically, people drawn to power and also those drawn by the desire to abuse their power

or the types of people who want to be prison guards, you know, for example, and those who inherently despise the powers that be and don't want to be told what to do, i.e. follow the law, end up breaking laws and becoming prisoners. And it would make sense, you know, those two personality types would naturally then clash. And it made sense that this experiment was done on the campus of Stanford University, you know, just south of San Francisco, Palo Alto, 1971, you know, the Vietnam War was winding down. The Bay Area in general have been undergoing a huge counterculture revolution for years now. Free love, fuck the man, turn on, tune in, drop out. That's one of the models of the counterculture, a phrase popularized by LSD guru and hippie shaman, Timothy

Liri in 1966. In 1967, Liri had spoke at the human being at the human being, a gathering of 30,000 dirty hippies in Golden Gate Park, 35 miles from Stanford's campus. It was 35 miles between Stanford and the hate Ashbury neighborhood of San Francisco as well, that little district, the heart, the beating heart, the tie-died beating heart of the heavy movement, the grateful dead are actually from Palo Alto, formed there in 65. I mean, this was a place to do some cutting edge social experiments about the man.

Let's find out what's going on with the man. Sanford campus have been ripe with protests, anti-war movements, that it puts students directly into conflict with local police tensions were running high between the palo alto police department and the students tensions were worth the highest after demonstrations occurred on April 29th and April 30th 1970 following news of the u.s invasion in Cambodia. Police from as far away as San Francisco had been summoned, Roxman thrown tear gas was

first used on the campus during those two nights. Nights University president, Pitzer described as tragic. Approximately 65 people, many of whom were police officers were hurt partly due to all detention. A new chief of police, Captain James, Georgia, takes over in February 1972. Zimbardo informed a relationship with the chief talks about him as psychology of imprisonment class. Zimbardo wants to figure out how to bridge the gap

between the students and the authorities to see if they can reduce the tension. And Zimbardo and Zurcher agree to be interesting to study how men become socialized into the role of police officers and what they went into transforming a rookie into a good cop. However, he did not have the money to do like that big of a project.

But he did have a grant through the US office of Naval Research to study anti-social behavior that could cover the study of what went into the making of a prison guard. Originally, the experiment was going to create a prison which rookie cops and college students would be both mock guards and mock prisoners. In addition to whatever Zimbardo might learn, the chief felt felt would be a good personal training experience for some of his men. So he agreed to assign several of his rookies to be in this mock prison experience. However, shortly after agreeing to supply the officers for the experiment, the chief reneged, saying he couldn't lose his men for two weeks. Yeah, I bet he did. I bet he really had your original rethink that original decision.

And I bet, I bet, I bet whoever is his superior, you know, wasn't very happy when you found out about you. You're going to do what with your officers, Zurcher, you want to be chief and you want to, you're going to do what? You're going to pay, pay them a taxpayer money to pretend to be police officers, dick around some college kids. Uh, actually, uh, Mr. Mayor, uh, only some of them are going to pretend to be cops. Uh, some of them will pretend to be prisoners. Do you have a goddamn stroke? Zerker, you're gonna do what? You're gonna pay real police officers to be pretend prisoners.

Do you feel like paying your bills with pretend money next week when you're fucking fired for being the dumbest goddamn wannabe police chief in the history of the city? Uh, uh, you know, Mr. Mayor, now that I've, I've heard how it sounds to everyone other than professors and barbell uh... it does seem like a bad idea i'm gonna go ahead and call it off i'll just i'll show myself out yeah because you know again he was gonna be the police chief that the next year

uh... i'll be realized this was not the best decision to make so in zabardo was sold you cannot use officers he chose to go ahead with student volunteers instead just for for every role and who was in bar? Who was this character? At the time, he was two years away from being a homeless drifter. Embarda would suffer the psychotic break in 1965 and spent several years basically wandering

through the Southwest in northern Mexico from 65 until 68. When he joined up with the dead, grateful dead sold tie-dye t-shirts for the band on tour until 1970. When Stanford hired him, even though he didn't even have a high school uh... education you seem fucking cool man uh... they said quote he seemed fucking cool and we like his or uh... no they weren't they weren't quite that crazy on campus in the bay area seventy one

uh... stanford uh... was and is arguably the most prestigious academic institution on the west coast when it comes to experimental tech social sciences uh... there are really one of the most important academic institutions in the world. I've cited a ton of Stanford studies over the course of the suck. And Zimbardo would go on to become one of America's most respected and influential psychologists, but in 1971, he wasn't widely known. He was born March 23rd, 1933, New York City, the attendant Brooklyn College, where he earned

a BA in 1954, triple majoring in psychology, sociology, and anthropology. So you know, huge nerd. What a fucking nerd. Betty didn't even hit a beer bong. I bet he never whipped his dick out in front of his roommate to piss him off, but he never came home wreaking of gin and sex. So you know, after completely wasting his youth trying to make something of himself,

he went on to earn his MA in 1955, his PhD in 1959 from Yale University, both in psychology, and then Dr. Smardy McNerddork taught briefly at Yale for becoming a psychology professor at New York University, where he taught until 1967. So he's the smart guy. After a year of teaching at Columbia University, the 35-year-old rising academic star became a faculty member at Stanford in 68. Well, yeah, whatever. Good for him. I probably could have done the same thing. I once had a professor tell me that she thought

I might be able to get into a grad school, into A grad school, just into one of them somehow. So you know, whatever. When Zimbardo couldn't work with local cops, he placed an ad in the Palo Alto Times in the stand for daily that read, male college students needed for psychological study of prison life.

$15 per day for one to two weeks, beginning August 14th. Experiment will accurately represent incarceration, especially sodomy. Heavy on the sodomy. Volunteers willing to sign up must sign a consent form and liability waiver regarding Sodomy and some Sodomizing is part of the application process.

And by some, more like a lot of Sodomizing. No, the added mention Sodomy. It ended with, for further information and applications, come to room 248, Jordan Hall, stand for you. I wish I said the rest of that stuff, just for the ridiculousness of it. You imagine just, man, I don't know, I need extra cash, but sounds like a lot of butt fucking

going on in the study, I don't get it. More than 70 dudes apply for the study, Craig Haney, young grad students in Bardos, Kurt Banks, a research assistant, Oversoddias, not Diagnostic Interviews, Personality Test to weed out applicants with psychological problems, Zimbardo's Kurt Banks, a research assistant, oversight, diagnostic interviews, personality test, to weed out applicants with psychological problems, medical disabilities, a history of crime or drug abuse.

Zimbardo ended up with 24 students from middle-class homes from the US and Canada who were all living on or near the Stanford campus. The boys all flipped to coin, were randomly assigned to be prisoner or guard prior to the start of the experiment. There would be nine prisoners, there would be nine guards, they work in eight hour shifts. There would also be a few alternates in case someone needed to drop out for whatever reason. Originally, every single student said they were preferred

to be a prisoner and not a guard. And that is hilarious to me, not me, man. Oh no thank you, I would way rather be a guard. You get me? Ah, hmm, be told what to do by some asshole or get to tell others what to do and maybe be the asshole. I'm going full asshole, with that decision. Speaking of astronomy, why didn't they all want to be prisoners? Well, basically because they were a bunch of fucking hippies. The reason all of these students preferred being in the prisoner rule is that they might

at some time become a prisoner, this is what they were thinking. For draft of Asian D, why charges, for example, or a residence on protest for civil rights or against the war, most of them said they could never imagine ever being a prison guard. They didn't go to college in the hope of becoming a prison guard. Man, Bay Area. God, I love it. I'm guessing that had that study been conducted in the Midwest or Idaho, or I live way less people signing up to be prisoners,

but we're hoping to be prisoners. Just more of a vibe of, I'll be guard, I'll be guard. Can I hit him? Can I hit him when they act up? Please let me hit him, please. Tell me I can hit the prisoners. The basement of Jordan Hall, the building that housed the department of psychology

is transformed into a fake prison. It set up in one long corridor in the basement and both ends boarded up, creating a yard. This is where the prisoners for walk eat exercise Cells were made by removing doors off of laboratory rooms replacing them with steel bars and cell numbers I love that they went all out on this. How much fun would it be to put people in pretend prison? I want to put my kids in pretend prison right now I feel like if I did that my daughter Monroe would for sure start a prison riot my son Kyler He'd probably get shanked in the yard. He'd probably get shanked by Monroe, definitely by Monroe.

The cells had no furniture, others and cots, except cell three, which had a faucet that had been turned off. There was no windows, only indirect neon lighting. There were fire extinguishers, which were required by the university. The bathroom was the outside of the corridor. Prisoners would only be allowed to go their blindfolded so they would not know that they had left the prison. Finally, there was one small closet near the end of the hall.

It was about two feet wide, two feet deep, a tall enough that a man could stand there. And this would be known as the whole Jesus Christ. And this is where bad prisoners would be sent for solitary confinement. All these spaces were bugged for recording. Or they would be monitored by Zimbardo, Haney and Banks from another room.

And on Friday, August 13th, 1971, two methods didn't have video ball. They had audio for all of it, but video just for some. On Friday, August 13th, 1971, the day before the experiment officially begins, those selected to be guards are brought in for an orientation. They're not given any real training or instructions

on how to act. Zimbardo and his crew want to witness how they interpret having power for themselves. They're informed that the main thing is for them to maintain law and order. No violence against prisoners and don't allow any escapes. And of course, there is the satamy thing.

They are instructed to satamize prisoners and encourage prisoners to satamize each other. And strangely, Zimbardo instructed them to also satimize themselves with their own penises. That's right, yep. They were instructed to perform the most complicated, most difficult type of satime known to mankind, and that's self-painless satime.

Sorry, I blacked out for about 10 seconds there. Last thing I remember saying was that the guards weren't allowed to let prisoners escape. Huh, Zimbardo then tells the nine guards, and David Yaffe is research assistant slash warden. We cannot physically abuse or torture them. We can create boredom. We can create a sense of frustration.

We can create fear in them to some degree. We can create a notion of the arbitrariness that it governs their lives, which are totally controlled by us by the system, by you, me, Yaffe. We'll have no privacy at all. There will be constant surveillance, nothing to do. They do will go unobserved.

They will have no freedom of action. They will be able to do nothing and say nothing that we don't permit. We're going to take away their individuality in various ways. They're going to be wearing uniforms and at no time will anybody call them by name. They will have numbers and be called only by their numbers.

In general, what all this should create in them is a sense of powerlessness. We have total power in the situation. They have none. The research question is, what will they do to try to gain power, to regain some degree of individuality, to gain some freedom, to gain some privacy? Will the prisoners essentially work against us to regain some of what they now have as they freely move outside the prison. Alright, so we have really smart people playing this big silly game that could lead to an incredible amount of insight into the human psyche. How much fun would it be to participate or watch this? I remember when I was reading about this study and others like it in college thinking,

that is what I want to do. I want to get paid to fuck with people. And now I guess in a way I get to. I mean, I get to fuck with you guys, little each week, here on TimeSuck. You guys know how much nonsense I throw your way. So, you know, thanks for letting me mess with you sometimes, and living my dream. But while I do it for my own amusement, Zimbardo did it in the name of intellectual curiosity.

He wanted to learn how the roles of both authority and prisoner affected individuals. Did they conform to some expectation of what they imagined a prisoner or capters role to be? Did they behave in expected ways? Entirely unexpected ways. I'll give you a hint. It's the last one.

Shit got out of hand and quick. I'll also be reading a lot from Zimbardo's actual first hand written descriptions of this experiment in the timeline, which is fantastic. Usually, when you're constructing these episodes, I have to cross reference fact check amongst various sources. There's often no first-hand accounts into the, I have to cross reference fact check amongst various sources. There's often no firsthand accounts into the info I'm looking for. Just speculation, and here's a not with this suck, man. This experiment was thoroughly documented and recorded.

So let's get into that documentation with this week's TimeSuck Timeline. Shrap on those boots, soldier. We're marching down a time, time, time line. Day one, Saturday, August 14th, 1971, 9.55 AM. An officer from the Palo Alto police force goes to arrest the volunteers. They don't know they're going to be arrested. They weren't given a heads up. I love this so much. Too bad hidden camera footage of these captures doesn't exist man the prisoner volunteers had only been told the most vague terms

What the role and the experiment was gonna be the arrestor and the arresting officers were told just go about doing your duty As if it were a real arrest ignore any of their questions or protests I feel like this can't be legal Actually, please cars went to gather the volunteers with sirens blaring, lights blazing, their handcuffed blindfolded brats to Stanford County jail, one of the time, and what they called Stanford County jail. Man, I fucking commitment, man.

I hope Zimbardo enjoyed this. I hope he was laughing his balls off. We heard about these hippie kids getting picked up by the fuzz. John Williams is under arrest, come with me. What did I do? I'm not a liberty to say, but if you don't come with me,

I'll have to add resistance arrest to your charges. It's Jesus, I just want to talk to my lawyer. Oh man, I hope these arresting officers really, you know, fucking had to have fun with these kids. Get the cart dirt bag, yeah, tell it's your lawyer. Oh man, and in a, God, you know, it just reminds me of the thing I did back in 2011, you know, like if you're wondering like,

well why would these kids, like they knew they hadn't done anything wrong? Why would they let just these cops just take them out of their daily lives, you know, with no, like no warrant and done anything? Like, well, because people like, like to a real authority figure like that, they generally just bow down. They generally just do what the person tells them to do.

And I know this firsthand because I did something even crazier back in 2011, and I was amazed what I got away with. Back in 2011, I partnered up with the production company to try and sell a show concept. We were calling clinical anarchy. It had an edutainment angle, and the premise was to retest psychological experiments from the past and present in a funny kind of hidden camera way. Find out if we could verify the findings from these old studies. I picked a Stanley Milgram experiment on obedience for a little five minute presentation video we shot. Milgram was a noted Yale psychology professor and researcher who had done experiment

in 1961. This is embargo was actually very familiar with is he was trying to add to that research basically. And in 61, Milgram wanted to test how far people would go regarding obeying an instruction if it involved harming another person. He wanted to know like how easily ordinary people could be influenced into committing atrocities for example, you know, to shed light on what the Germans did in World War II. Quick summary of his test was that you were putting a room with the researcher working under the assumption that you're helping somebody else improve their memory by giving them a jolt of electricity every time they answer a question wrong.

So you're sitting in a room, like a laboratory room, researcher with a, or somebody who looks like a researcher, who's actually just like a volunteer or a paid volunteer basically, who's like a lab coat and a clipboard. And then, and then you can hear somebody through through these headphones in a, who's supposedly in another room. And you know, ask him questions, you have the answers in your hand and if they get them wrong, you're supposed answers in your hand, and if they get them wrong, you're supposed to push a little button

that coordinates with this machine in front of you that gives them a little bit of juice. And you can see that there's actually a series of buttons that are supposed to be like how badly you're shocked. I started like 15 volts, which would be said slight shock, and it went to like 375 volts, which was rated danger, severe shock, and then it went all the way past

that to 450 volts, which you were led to believe could be a lethal amount. It was set to make you at least think that that could be a lethal amount. And basically, as they got more questions wrong, you're supposed to shock them with more and more voltage. And then when people would hesitate, the researcher would just, you know, just peer pressure you, or pressure you under this authority way, I'd just be like, continue, continue. We must continue the experiment, continue. They must be punished or whatever, you know,

you'd say these kind of words. And people would hesitate, but then they'd be like, okay, and then they would shock him. 65% of the participants in the study eventually gave the fake memory student. They were listening to scream in another room when they were being shocked, the full 450 volts with that researcher sitting next to them.

And as the voltage got higher, the actor in the other room, who was not getting shocked, would just scream louder and louder, until it was excruciating, crazy screams. And then as you went higher than that, it sounded like they were dying. And these people, for a fucking memory tests, would still keep shocking them, because some dude in a lab coat who had no authority over their life was just like, we must continue. We must continue the experiment.

So they knew what they were doing was wrong. They knew they might be killing somebody, but they didn't want it to defy the commands of the researcher. They didn't want to upset the perceived authority figure in the room. They want to let them down. They want to break the rules. And And you know, that just showed how humans in the right situation

can just go to that place of like, oh, I just got to follow orders and just do horrible fucking things. And the show I was pitching, it didn't end up getting picked up. We came close with the now defunct spike TV, that network that morphed into Paramount. So much fun. This is what I did. I wanted to see if I can verify Milgram's findings by getting people to submit to the perception of my authority. Like would people, would random strangers out in public do things that they knew were stupid, things that made them look foolish,

made no sense just because I was dressed up like a security guard and I told them to do it. So I dressed up like a security guard. I went to a costume shop in Santa Monica. I bought a security guard costume. I'm sure this is fucking illegal what I did. I remember the production company made us shoot ourselves because they were worried about it.

It didn't trouble, but they also thought it was a great idea. I bought some black security guard, look at sneakers, grew a little mustache, specifically for the taping, had a walkie talkie thing on my shoulder, that a buddy and filmmaker Mike Newman would, he would mumble security like things into. As I'm walking around, you could like hear my little shoulder walkie talk, I'm like, nah, we got a seven and filmmaker Mike Newman would, he would mumble security life things into. As I'm walking around,

you could hear my little shoulder walkie-talkie. I'm very, very angry, I got a 7-7, we got a 7-7-4, then it's progress, and you're just like whatever. And then at a belt, at a fucking belt, full of security guard looking tools, handcuffs, big metal flashlight, mace spray, little utility pocket knife thingy,

and then I just snuck around Santa Monica. It's the middle of the day, you know, and also we just pop out of the car and I would just, you know, I had a lapel mic on. My buddy Mike would hide and film from a distance and I just fucking boss people around. And I was blown away, the people listened to me. It was fucking crazy.

Like only one woman told me to beat it. One woman told me, she's like, what are you doing? You're not a real cop. And she told me to fuck off at one point because I was trying to tell her. This is how we take those eyes being. She was at the corner getting ready to cross the street. She's talking on her cell phone.

As she started to cross the street, I told her this was a no walk and talk zone. It's like, man, this is a no walk and talk zone. There's no talk on your cell phone. And this part of Santa Monica when you're crossing the street. Man, hang up your phone. No walk and talk zone.

She looks like I was crazy, right? Please don't yet, and end up telling a fucker. But only one, only one who defied me, 10, 15 other people that I approached just followed my fucking commands. And they were ridiculous. I went up to one dude at this park on the corner of seventh and Wilshire in Santa Monica.

And he was laying down on the grass just reading a book in a park. I told him if you wanted to keep reading his book, you would have to do it on the other side of the sidewalk. He was sitting in one of the city's new, new, no reading zones. I told him he was in a no reading zone. I told him that we had a lot of people complaining about other people reading too many books in the park. It was a real nuisance and he looked at me like I was insane, but then I just, I held character and I would just say something, I would just default to like, hey man, I know, I know, no, I don't agree with you either.

It's ordinate 1658, it just passed, doesn't make sense to me, but I gotta do my job, you know? I just get paid to do what they tell me, if you don't stop, I gotta write you up, I gotta write you. And then he shook his head, just muttered something about it, I was like, bullshit, but then got up, I went to the other side of the sidewalk,

started reading again. I got, it was so crazy. I got one guy to wait five minutes to play his drum. Like he was just, he's just, just some nice dude. Playing his drum in the park, like a little handheld, what a bongo or whatever. And I walk up to him and I was like, hey man, sorry man, this is no drum zone.

Between two and four, ordnance seven, eight, five, four. I would always just cite an ordnance number. And I would always act like, I don't know why they have these laws. And I'm like, it was like three fifty five PM. And I was like, hey man, you can play again in five minutes. I know it's crazy, but I gotta get you to stop beating on your drum. I gotta write you up.

I'd always go to the place, I gotta write you up. I got people to stop riding their bike. I remember running over to one guy. He was riding his bike. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, oh, off the bike, off the bike. No, no, no, no, no, this is a, this is a no bike zone. That's a no bike zone on Saturdays. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, and he just, he apologized. He hopped off his bike to go, oh, got a, sorry, I didn't know.

I'm like, yeah, it's ordinance, you know, 4672. This past last week, city council meeting. And the craziest thing I did, I got a school crossing guard to perform a random field sobriety test I did I got a school crossing guard to perform a random field sobriety test walked up to this cross guard who turned out was an off-duty cop that's what that was the most nervous I also got he started to question is like what he's like I've heard of this and I was like yeah now city was a parallel to the guy last week in uh... venez uh... he was drunk and you know

we don't want to get lawsuits and so they hired this agency and that agency hired me. It'll just take a minute. I had to do a random sobriety test on you. And I had him like touch his nose with his fingers and I'd do the fucking one foot in front of the other, say the alphabet backwards. And they fucking did it. And I found hilarious and terrifying how they would just slightly pause and then just bend to the will of assumed authority

So what would Zimbardo student prisoners and student prison guards do in a much more organized study? What findings would he uncover? So let's dive back in let's dive back in and find out So okay Saturday morning the fake prisoners have just been arrested once brought back to the fake prison fake guards Order the fake prisoners to strip and remain standing naked with their arms outstretched against the wall and legs, or had their legs spread apart, that's crazy. You know, they were never told to make like, to strip these prisoners. That was never like part of their, what they had to do.

They just assumed that's what happened when you go into a real jail. And so we should do this to these volunteers before giving a uniform. Each prisoner sprayed with powder alleged to be a delusor, to rid him of lice that might be brought in to contaminate the jail without staff encouragement, some guards begin to make fun of the prisoner's genitals. They're making fun of one dude for having a small win. Seriously, marking on his penis size,

laughing at some other dudes unevenly hanging testicles. Jesus, they've been fake prison guards for less than a fucking few hours. And they're already just assholes making fun of some guys dick unbelievable. That is no good. What is big deal? Well, strange penis. What why make source of shame? No good come from that. Trust Chica Tilo. No good come from a cock of shame. Did Chica Tilo actually just give his positive solid advice? Anyway, still blindfolded. The prisoners given their uniforms, they each receive a brown

muslin's smock with their prisoner ID numbers on the front and the back. The researchers can't force the volunteers to shave their heads the way they wouldn't a real prison. So they're each given a nylon stocking that has to be worn over their hair at all times. Zimbardo felt the cover in the head is also a method of erasing one of the markers of individuality, promotes greater anonymity amongst the prisoner cast. Next each prisoner, don's a pair of rubber clogs, a locked chain is attached to an ankle, constant reminder of imprisonment.

Even when a sleep, the prisoner will be reminded of his status when the chain hits his foot as he turns in a sleep. The prisoners are allowed no underwear. That wasn't like part of what they had to do either, but they were like, nah, man, no underwear. So that when they would bend over, their junk would fucking be exposed, their butt would hang out, Jesus. They're just constantly being humiliated and degraded. Guards are given Billy Clubs, mirrored sunglasses to look the part.

Zimbardo got that idea from Cool Hand Luke, which is a movie I love by the way. Remember that asshole war, if you ever seen that movie. Oh man, so if you haven't, you should. What a classic Paul Neumann movie. What we have here is a failure to communicate just the sadistic word in that movie. Prisoners lined up against a wall and a guard or net gives them a list of rules. They must memorize the rules. The rules are one. Prison prisoners must remain silent during rest periods after lights out, during meals, and whenever they are outside the prison yard.

Two, prisoners must eat at meal times, and only at meal times. Three, prisoners must participate in all prison activities. Four, prisoners must keep their cell clean at all times. Bed's must be made in personal effects, must be neat and orderly. Floors must be spotless. Five.

Prisoners must not move, tamper with, deface or damage walls, ceilings, windows, doors, or prison property. Six. Prisoners must never operate cell lighting. Seven. Prisoners must address each other by number only. Eight. Prisoners must always address the guards as Mr. Correctional Officer

and the Warden as Mr. Chief Correctional Officer. Nine prisoners must never refer to their condition as an experiment or simulation. They are imprisoned until paroled. Ten prisoners will be allowed five minutes in the laboratory. No prisoner will be allowed to return to the laboratory within one hour after a scheduled lavatory period. Lavatory visitations are controlled by the guards. 11. Smoking is a privilege. Smoking will be allowed after meals or at the discretion of the guard.

Prisoners must never smoke in the cells. Abuse of the smoking privilege will result in permanent revocation of the smoking privilege. Number 12. Male is a privilege. All male flowing in and out of the prison will be inspected and censored. Number 13, masturbation is mandatory. All prisoners must masturbate twice a day to prevent buildup of sexual tension. Third, 14, visitors are a privilege. Prisoners who are allowed a visitor must meet him or her at the door to the yard.

They will be supervised by a guard and the guard may terminate the visit at his discretion. 15, all prisoners in each cell will stand were whenever the warden, the prison superintendent or any visitors arrive on the premise. Uh, prisoners will wait on orders to be seated or to resume activities. Now, for 16, prisoners must wait on orders to be seated or to resume activities. Number 16, prisoners must obey all orders issued by guards at all times. A guards order supersedes any written order. Wardens order supersedes both the guards orders and the written rules. Orders of the superintendent of the prison are supreme.

Uh, number 17 prisoners must report all report all rule violations to the guards. 18 failure to obey any of the above rules may result in punishment. 19 rule number 13 the masturbation rule was made up by me a few moments ago never part of the experiment. After they are getting these rules the fake prisoners are introduced to counts. I hope some of you were like hung up on that for the last like seven rules like fuck they had to jerk off. you were like, how long up on that for the last like seven rules? Like, fuck, they had to jerk off. Like they had to twice a day. Huh? I guess that does reduce tension. Uh, after they're given rules, the fake prisoners are introduced to counts. The prisoners with memorized numbers as the will, uh, they will be used in a roll call count, like failure

to achieve the count in a clean and quick way results in punishment. Uh, initially, the purpose of the counts as an all prisons is an administrative necessity to ensure that all prisoners are present and accounted for. The none of escaped are still in his cell sick or need attention. Secondary purpose of the counts is for prisoners to familiarize themselves with their new numbered identity. Zimbardo wanted them to begin thinking of themselves and the others as prisoners with numbers, not people with names. First count was deemed too slow. Prisoners were forced to 10 pushups, his punishment. They're randomly assigned cells, you know, cell one was prisoner three fours zero one five seven zero four seven two five eight, you know, and so on. Arnet, the oldest volunteer and graduate student of sociology takes early control. He singles

out prisoners who he thinks will be trouble makers. And he's going to make him acceptable. He latches on to prisoners two thousand ninety three takes an instant disliking to him. Already man, tension between the fake prisoners and the fake prison guards been again, less than one day. Night shift guard coming at six p.m. They're equipped with whistles, silver reflective sunglasses. What we have here is a failure to communicate handcuffs, Billy clubs. First meal of the day served as 7 p.m. It's a simple one, offered cafeteria style on a table set out in the yard.

There's room for only six inmates at the table. So when they finish the remaining three, you get to come and eat what's left, man, man. Right off prisoner, 8, 6, 1, 2, tries to talk to the others into going on a sit-down strike to protest unacceptable prison conditions. Ah, fucking Bay Area.

These guys, you've been in prison less than a day. You a protest. After, uh, been in fake prison lesson, after dinner of the prisoners are put into their cells, told to be silent. Prisoner 819-8612, talk loudly but are not punished. 5704 is a smoker, starting to get antsy from lack of nicotine. He's told it's smoking is a privilege. He hasn't earned it yet. Ward and Yaffee, uh, what it was, uh, has his first official task in telling the prisoners that there will be visiting nights, uh, any prisoner, uh, who has friends or relatives in the vicinity should write to them about coming to visit. He describes a letter writing procedures and gives each one who asks for a pen, stand for county jail stationery and a stand envelope. Man, they've really went all out.

The visiting nights quickly become a tool in which the guards used to control the prisoners. Power struggle begins between two of the fake guards. One of them, Helm, and it starts his dominance by going after prison eight one nine. He turns on him for laughing, pushing him down with his building club and yelling in his face. So they were told not to get physical, physical on day one. He commands eight one nine to do 20 pushups as punishment. The guards are starting to take pleasure and the authority they have over the prisoners. And this is

fucking day one. Day one, they're pushing people down with Billy clubs, you know, mocking them, mocking their fucking penises, strip searching them, making them wear nylon head coverings in places, shaving their heads. So I, ah, time for another count. Helmet insists that they can't look at their numbers when they count since by now they should have memorized them. And if any of the prisoners gets their number wrong, they're going to be punished. Everyone's going to be doing pushups again. Doesn't push up for everyone.

Still competing with Landry for dominance in the guards pecking order. Helmen becomes even more arbitrary with his punishments. He's really getting into this. This guy sounds like a real, real incredible person. He goes, he goes, I don't like the way you count when you're going down. I want you to count when you're going up. Do 10 more pushups for me. So just fucking making up rules they go along.

Guard burden becomes, hell, it's number two. So this weird hierarchy starts developing amongst the fake guards. He eggs, hell, man on, supports him after the counts, hell, man, yells out to the prisoners. All right, gentlemen, did you enjoy our counts? Somebody yells, no, sir. And he goes, who said that? Prisoner 8612 owns up to the remark and he's putting the whole, it's fucking put the closet.

Before lights out at 10 p.m. or 10 p.m. char prisoners are allowed to have their last toilet privilege of the night to do so requires permission. One by one or two by two, they're blindfolded, led to the toilets. Later this inefficient procedure of kind of like winding up past a noisy boiler room, which confuses them about the toilet's location. There's a little more streamlined and all the prisoners, you know, will have this, you know, a little bit more organized toilet kind of route, which might include an elevator ride to confuse them further. I mean, they're really put a lot of thought into every angle. Some prisoners are not able to urinate as they're too tense. They're not given more time. Can I feel like Zimbardo is just fuck with them a bit here.

Not sure why the prolonged confusing trip to the bathroom is such an important thing. It's just really trying to disorientate and timid in my guess. I don't know. It kind of feels though like Zimbardo, kind of like the fake guards, it's getting a little drunk with power already. After the prisoners are put to bed, the guards play

cards and plan and plan how they will wake up the prisoners for the next count. The next shift of guards comes in for like the 2 a.m. to 10 a.m. shift. I just cracked up. I love that they're playing cards because that feels to me like, like if you watched movies of old prison stuff and there's like the guards playing cards, you're like, oh, I guess what's what we do now? We're prison guards, so we got to play cards. Day two, it's only day two. Day two, Sunday, August 15th, 1971, early on day two, 2.30 a.m. The prisoners are awoken by shrieking whistles. So that's fun. They're awoken by guards yelling them up and at them, up and at them, wake up, get out here for count. Okay, sleep in beauties. Time to learn how to count. Uh, count and to attend pushups, jump in jacks for failures, continue on and on for nearly

a, for nearly an hour. Just fucking harass these guys, uh, making to jump in jacks and push ups and redo the count. Finding the prisoners are ordered back to sleep until reveley, a few hours later. Some prisoners reports there, you know, they're very dis, uh, disorientated. They're, they're feeling surprised, exhausted, they exhausted their angry some later admit they're they're considering quitting already at this point. The fellow maps less than 24 hours. The whistles start again, 6 a.m. It's one of the garteros maxes club against his open palm making that you know what,

what, what, what sound the president's forced to do more exercise for punishment. Eight one nine stars to cry. He's putting the hole for disobedience. Oh my God. Early on day two and already tears. Already tears. Already this is weird. Lower the flies vibe happening.

This is so amusing to me. The prisoners start to talk about a hunger strike. They're so fucking dramatic. They're so dramatic. Day two. And they're like, oh, can't take this. We have to put on a hunger strike, you guys. The morning shift guards come in,

decide that the prisoners think the guards are too lax, which encourages the prisoners to rebel. So they decide it's time to stiffen up. First, they decide to the morning work period, which today will mean scrubbing down the walls and floors, then in their first stroke of a collective creative revenge, they take blankets off the prisoner's beds and sells one and two, carry them outside the building,

drag them to brush. Drag their blankets through a bunch of underbrush until they're just covered with like little stickers little twigs you know burrs prisoner 5704 goes ballistic about that I bet the guards have achieved their desired effects man man she has gotten tense on day two incredible how quickly these guys have become sadistic. Does not speak well to human nature. And not to sound sexist, but I wonder if they would have been less cruel if there had been some ladies around, some females, right? Like if this would have been a mixed gender experiment,

I feel like we're witnessing just like way too much testosterone. We're just witnessing the worst of testosterone, right? Because there are absolutely gender differences when it comes to behavior. Like you can talk about environmental factors when it comes to men and violence while you want, but hormones have a lot to do with aggression. I mean, that's scientifically proven. I did some testosterone therapy a few years ago myself, mostly at a curiosity.

And I stopped taking it once my testosterone levels were about five times higher than normal because while I liked my bench press, that was suddenly at an NFL combine level, I did not like threatening to beat the fuck out of strangers in public over minor traffic infractions. I would get so angry. It felt like the hormones would just take over my brain. Like I just felt completely insane. And then like, like moments later, I'd be like, what the fuck was that about? Why was I so angry? Too much test, too much test osterone seems to be going on in this study.

Prisoner 819 finally led out of the hole when asked to be liked his time in there, he responded with, oh fuck you, Mr. Correctional Officer. So now this is the first time, you know, that they're using obscenities, again, pissed. 819 5704 7258 started a mini rebellion. They ripped their numbers off their uniforms, they demand better living conditions.

Again, this is day two. The guards retaliate by stripping them naked until they replace their numbers. So much nudity, so homoerotic. I mean, the guards seem to love taking these dudes close off. So one barricade themselves in. If you just come out and tell them they're gonna receive better treatment.

The ring leader is 5704. Ah, he's trouble maker. They push the beds against the door, turn off the lights, to cover the bars with their blankets. Right? Again, again, I just, ah, day two and there's a prison, you know, fucking protest going on or a billion. Unable to get into the cell, the guards go into cell two and they take all their beds

and bedding out into the yard. 819 screaming wildly just no no no no there's an experiment lay me alone shit like homie fucker you're not gonna take our fucking beds the fucking simulations the fucking simulated experiment no prison fuck doctors and Bartow that's an exact quote that is that is documented quote from a 612. Uh, it's the last that is losing, losing the shit. And this is supposed to last for two weeks. Guards completely ignore the fact that prisoners are bringing up, uh, this is not a real prison and they would respond with our net or respond with stuff like, when the prisoners in cell one start behaving properly, your beds will be returned.

You can use whatever influence you can on them to make them behave properly. So there's treating them like, you know, they're not going to act like it's an experiment. They refuse to do that. Guard Landry returns with a big fire extinguisher then and then start shooting bursts of skin chilling carbon dioxide into cell two from cell one, forcing the prisoners to flee backwards. Our net formulates this is kind of divide and conquer psychological tactic of making cell three. The privilege cell gives this member special privileges, Washington, Bush, Newtief, beds and bedding returned, water turned on

in their cell. When 107, when 1037 comes out of cell two, his ankles are handcuffed, he's thrown into the closet and he becomes the second, you know, person to be put in the hole. He's put a tiny closet, handcuffs on. 8612 is continued to yell for the president's superintendent just to embark on get your ass over here. I was embarked to decide not to intervene, but to watch the confrontation and the attempt by the other students to restore law and order. Sell three is brought a special meal for being good

prisoners. They refuse to eat. This anger's the guards. 103 seven has been in the whole now for a couple hours. One hour was supposed to be the max that you can be put in there. That's what they said during orientation. So one, the prisoners are so upset they form an escape plan, a fucking escape plan on day two. Five, seven, oh four has long fingernails from guitar plane. He decides he's going to turn them into screws and he's going to remove the face plate of the power outlet. And then they're going to then they're going to They're going to edge take the edge out the plate turn the screws on the door One of us is going to pretend to be sick. This is what they're thinking

Then when the guard is taking him to the toilet will open the main entrance down by the hall A stick little stick with the whistle the other cell mates going to burst out They'll knock down the guard and run away to freedom But his bad luck would have it guard John Landry making routine rounds turns the door handle on cell one and it falls out to the ground with the resounding thud. So he realizes they've taken the, you know, part of the door apart. He screams help escape. He's screaming escape. The other guards come to the rescue 4 p.m.

The Knights of guards coming early, all six guards storm cell one. They again shoot the fire extinguisher, uh, into the door to, uh, opening to keep the prisoners at bay. Then they stripped three of the prisoners naked, again with the nudity, take away their beds, threaten to deprive them of dinner if they show any further disobedience. They're already hungry for missing lunch. And so, uh, the prisoners melt into quote a sullen quiet blob. I'm probably a monster for laughin' for the first time Zimbardo himself interjects over the loudspeaker. She announced that the prisoners need to self select three people to be on the Stanford County jail prisoners grievance committee.

That they'll be able to meet with a superintendent, which is him, as soon as they can agree on their grievances. They select 5704-432-51037. Their prepared list includes that the guards are being both physically and verbally abusive. They don't like that. There's an unnecessary level of harassment, they don't care for that. The food is not adequate.

They wanna have their books, glasses, and various pills and meds returned. They took their meds. They want there to be more than one visiting night. Some of them want religious services. They don't say anything here, but I imagine all of them would like some underwear. Behind my silver reflecting sunglasses, I slip into the superintendent role automatically says, embargo, I start out by saying, I am

sure we can resolve any disagreements amicably to our mutual satisfaction. I note that this grievance committee is the first step in that direction. Well, 8612 is not buying into the grievance committee and he's thrown into the hole for insubordination. Back in the closet, you son of a bitch. 8612 then truly starts to have a meltdown. Yaffee can't tell if he's faking it or not. Zimbardo requests that 8612 brought to his office. He's brought in the two of a discussion. Zimbardo asked him, he says, what seems to be the trouble young man? And 8612 says, I can't take it anymore. The guards are hassling me. They're picking on me, they're putting me in the hole all the time.

Zimbardo says, but well, from what I've seen, and I've seen it all, you have brought this all in yourself. You are the most rebellious insubordinate prisoner in the whole prison. 8612 says, I don't care, you have all violated the contract. I didn't expect to be treated like this. And then he starts to keep going. And then this other fucking research assistant,

you know, pretend like prison guy, just jump in and says, stop right there, punk. You can't take what? Push ups, jumpin' jacks, guards calling you names, yelling you, is that what you mean by a hasslin'? Don't interrupt me. And you're crying about being a puttin' a closet for a few hours, let me straighten you out, white boy.

You wouldn't last a day in stan Quentin. We would all smell your fear and weakness. The guards would be banging you upside your head. Therefore, they put you in a real solitary concrete barren pit that I endured for weeks at a time. They'd throw you to us snuff at your some other bad gang boss. Would have brought you for two, maybe three pe- or would have bought you for two, maybe three packs of cigarettes.

You're asked to be bleeding bread or bright red, white, and blue. Now it just be- just to begin and turn you into a sissy. I fucking- again, this is make-believe. This person yelling at him was not in prison. They were not in San Quentin. This is nonsense. This is fake guard. What's he talking about? He wouldn't last a day there. Maybe he, I don't know. Maybe he would. I haven't been there either. I just, I love just how committed they are to fantasy. This is fantastic to me. 8612, startled by this treatment. I bet he mically agrees to continue. He is fantastic to me. 8612, startled by this treatment. I bet he meekly agrees to continue. He sent back to the yard. The guards have the others do

account. 8612 is told to join him against the wall. He then tells Arnett to go fuck himself. So he's still pissed. Other prisoners start to giggle at him. And then 8612 punches one of his buddies. He delivers an uppercut to his buddies. He continues to rant and his high pitch, one voice. I couldn't get out, they wouldn't let me out. You can't get out of here. Uh, and one prisoner asked him like, you mean you couldn't break the contract?

Another prisoner requires desperately, but not to anyone in particular. Can I cancel my contract? Our net toughens up, no talk it on the line. 8612 will be around later if you all to talk with. This revelation from one of their respected leaders is a powerful blow to the prisoners' resolve and defiance, Glenn, or excuse me, a 3401 reports

on the impact of 861-2's assertion. Later, he was like, he said, you can't get out. You felt like you really were a prisoner. Maybe you really were a prisoner in Zimbardo's experiment and maybe you were getting paid for it, but damn it, you were a prisoner. You were really a prisoner. So Zimbardo's got right where he wants a man. He's in their heads. He's making them think they're actually in a real prison. It's brilliant.

The prisoners move into dinner. I've just a few minutes eating the guard's take their food away. Tell the prisoners that the full meals are a privilege. 8612 put into the hole. Sell one is being forced to pick birth out of the blankets. 8612 is released from the hole. Start screaming is being forced to pick birth out of the blankets. 8612 is released from the hole, starts screaming to call his mom or he wants to lawyer. He again, he's going into another meltdown. I love that he wants to call his mom. This dude, he's so fragile, does not take very long to break him.

Zimbardo decides that 8612 is under true psychological distress and must be released from the experiment. And they call for his girlfriend to come get him I wonder how long that relationship lasted after he cried like a baby because he'd been fake held in a fake jail for less than two days That doesn't sound like a big turn-on Craig Haney, you know, I'm gonna excuse me one of the research assistants slash, you know Prison hierarchy or prison guard, you know staff reminds 8612 that he could visit student health in the morning because we had arranged for some of its staff to help deal with any such reactions. Shortly after 8612 was terminated, one of the guards overheard the prisoners and self-too discussing a plot in which this prisoner would return the next day with the band of his buddies to trash the prison

and liberate the prisoners. It sounded to me like a far-fetched rumor until a guard reported seeing 8612 sneaking around the hallways A psychology department the next morning. I ordered the guards to capture him and return him to the prison Since he had probably been released under false pretenses Not sick just tricking us now. I knew that I had to prepare for an all-out assault on my prison my prison Look how quickly these guys have taken it this far unreal and they're trying to capture a student. If I can put it back fake of fake jail. Ah, day three, Monday, August 16th, 1971. On the third day of the experiment, all of the fake prisoners are given real Lisa mattresses and everyone's suddenly starts getting along. They start having a great time, morale shoots

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button on the website or on the app, on the time suck website or the time suck app, very easy. All right, so back in fake prison, just checking with fake prison. It's decided that no bathroom breaks are going to be allowed during the night. Prisoners are going to have to, you know, just shitting buckets. You have to piss in buckets and the buckets won't be cleared until the next morning because they've been naughty, they've been naughty fake prisoners. 2.30 a.m. counts occur. The night shift decides to stay in help. Just's no reason they just want to be there now. Now there's six guards, eight prisoners,

new rules are given out. Prisoners must participate in all prison activities. That means counts. I thought that already was a rule. I guess they're reinforcing it. Bed's must be made, personal effects must be neat. Nordally, floors have to be spotless. Prisoners must not move, tamper with,

the face wall, ceilings, windows doors, or any other prison property. I guess they're just kind of reinstating these. Prisoners can never operate cell lighting. All right, the prisoners are forced to repeat these rules over and over. So apparently less, less so new rules, more so just like take the rules seriously. Vandy notices one of the prison guards that one, one zero three seven is not wearing his headstocking.

Uh oh, uh uh. He's forced to 15 pushups, three four zero one says he feels sick and he's forced to 20, 20 seven setups to feel better. Ha, ha, ha. Then take away his pillow for being a crybaby. Oh my god. 8, 3, 4, 5 says he can't breathe and he's water-borted for 45 minutes by the guards who scream at him. How about now? Can you breathe now? Is this helping your breathing? You weak fuck? You wouldn't last a day in Alcatraz. You fucking cry fuck you.

All right, that never happened. The water-bordy never happened, but it almost feels like I could have. you weak fuck you would last a day now for trash you fucking cry fuck you right that never happened the waterboarding never happened but almost like a kudaf with how quickly these college kids you know fake guards that become power trip and satis uh... zimbardo is obsessed about a six one to two coming back to attack his prison he's worried about a college student a a fake a released fake prisoner

coming back for real retribution on his fake prison. They are living in an alternate universe now. They've all gone a little mad. Zimbardo decides he's gonna move the whole experiment to the old city jail. There's no longer in use. He's just real worried about it. He fills out forms. He's planning on moving that night just after visiting ours. But then the city manager calls and says absolutely not. They do not want the city to be sued if someone gets hurt. Look. I love that he's like, Oh God, we gotta get to a real jail.

Oh, I gotta secure my prisoners. This is the fucking professor. He's obsessed with the idea of this attack. He brings in a fake prisoner. David G, one of the students to replace 8612 for the sole purpose of gaining information about the attack. He puts in a fucking spy. David G informs him that there is no attack,

but rather that that was just wishful thinking on the part of the prisoners. And then David quickly turns on Zimbardo and sides with the prisoners. He's one of them now. This is getting just weird and weirder. Zimbardo confiscates a letter from 5704 to his girlfriend. Says when he gets out, he's going to sell his story to the local paper. He said he's discovered that the office of naval research, the Department of Defense is supporting Zimbardo's research. Consequently, Zimbardo has this, he has this conspiracy theory arguing that they're trying to find out how to best imprison student protesters who are posing the Vietnam war. And Zimbardo's pissed off about this, right?

And he doesn't want to share it, doesn't want the guards finding out and turn on him. He's personally offended because he's been actively anti-Vietnam the whole time. He's taking this shit way too seriously. He's fucking paranoid right now. Zimbardo and Carlo plan on how they will handle the first visitors night. They're just going to do what all prisons do when unwelcome visitors descend upon them. They're going to they're going to document abuses confront the system with demands for improvement prison officials, you know, so they're going to have to cover the blood stains with oil. This is what they say. Hide the bodies by putting troublemakers out of sight and make the scene pretty.

Uh, carl stresses that, you know, we must convince these middle class white parents to believe that the good we are doing with a study, uh, or believe in the good we are doing with a study and like their sons make them comply with the demands of the authorities. He says, you white folks, sure like to conform to the man. So they know they're doing the right thing, just doing the like the doing like everyone else is doing man. They are into this stocking caps and head towels are stashed away. The warden warns everyone that any complaints will result in permanent or no, premature termination of this visit. Day shift guards are asked to stay until 9 p.m.

backup guards are called in. The prisoners are fed their best meal, hot chicken papai, seconds of dessert. Dental music is put on in the yard to get them ready for the parents and visitors. The parents arrive and then they, and then all of a sudden they, the prisoner, or the prison people plan to cut the time down so each visitor only gets 10 minutes. They have the receptionist tell the parents that the fake prisoners are still eating and they shift the blame for the delay onto their loved ones. The receptionist also tells the visitors

that only two visitors per prison are allowed. That's a rule that they just made up. And when the visitors get angry, they respond with dinner, didn't your child or friend tell you about the limit of two visitors when they invited you here? So they just shift blame there. They're just manipulating, there's lying. For the most part, the night goes well.

The prisoners put on a brave face, pretend that everything's okay. They don't share the abuse they're suffering. Both the parents, friends, and the prisoners are treating this like a real prison, not an experiment. And again, this is day three. This is day three, and these people are acting like they've been in federal prison for many years. 103, seven's mother takes Embardo aside,

tells him that there's a real change in her son, and he's very unwell. Zimbardo does not believe her, and in fact uses psychological persuasion to get her husband to turn on her. And then the two guys gang up on her and convince her that she's wrong and that one of three seven is fine. What the fuck? You almost feel like Zimbardo need somebody above him to monitor him during his experiment. You know, right? It feels like if we lived, if this had gone on in the country where you just kind of do whatever you wanted to experiment, that he would have just taken them out in the woods somewhere

and just put them in some fucking compound you built and just monitored them for years, just to see how it affected them. Day four, Tuesday, August 17, 1971, before we dig into this day, one more sponsor. Support for today's show comes from American addiction centers. Sometimes it's hard to ask for help, but it doesn't need to be. Addiction is a nationwide problem that can affect anyone. And there's no easy fix. Recovery isn't one size fits all.

And that's why the AAC is revolutionizing the addiction treatment industry with holistic, evidence-based treatment practices. They offer innovative technology to ensure safety, throughout detox and treatment, specializing in treating dual diagnosis, or co-occurring mental health issues and addiction. They work hard to make sure individual needs are met, empowering individuals, and their lifelong recovery journey into a comfortable, home-like setting. AAC even offers in-house genetic testing, so you can find out if you're prone to any kind of prescription drug sensitivity or interactions, which is genius. This is especially important in the midst of the current opioid epidemic.

If you struggle with drugs, you're out called, or maybe you're not even sure whether or not you have a problem, just call American addiction centers, 888-489-5018. It's available 24-7. I'm going to put that in the episode description so you can find that number easily 888 489 5018 your life is worth more than your addiction Don't wait and tell us too late. That's right time stockers. If you think it's weird That I'm promoting to pro weed podcast and recovery center in the same podcast You feel like it's hypocritical. It's not some people can have a casual healthy relationship with alcohol or with marijuana I'm one of those people

Some people can't. And if you can't, if it's a need, not a want, get help. Don't fuck around. Don't you pride getting the way. Do it now. No one has a casual relationship, by the way, with long term opioid use. So contact the AAC.

Addiction is no joke. Hail Nimrod. And now we return back to our fake prison. Zimbardo has a range for a priest to come in and give insights as well as give, give him feedback on the level of realism. He's a former Washington DC prison chaplain. His father McDermott arrives to meet with everybody. Most prisoners only give him their numbers.

Zimbardo reports that father McDermott himself slips deeply into the role of prison chaplain. He's a real fake prison chaplain. Apparently the mock prison has created a very realistic situation that is drawn even this priest in, just as it had the prisoners in the guards in Zimbardo himself. Father McDermott confides in Zimbardo. They are all the naive type of prisoner. They don't know anything about prison or what a prison's for. It's typical of the educated people that I see. There are the people. These are the people you want to try to change the prison system tomorrow's leaders and today's voters And they are the ones who are going to shape community education. They just don't know enough about what prisons are and what they can do to a person

But what you are doing doing here is good. It'll teach him man great insight father make German and how true People who are never in prison are generally the one to shape prison policies What what a great thing for some of these people to be in prison for a bit and how true. People who are never imprisoned are generally the one who shape prison policies. What a great thing for some of these people to be in prison for a bit, you know, I mean, truly, like really get a taste of what prisons all about. And, you know, and maybe some of them,

you know, would be able to shape prison policy later in a much better way. I never thought of that angle. Father McDermott talks to 819, 819 is looking very unwell. In a fit of rage that morning, he had destroyed his bedding, ended up in the hole,

I can throw in the closet. The other prisoners told the guards he was depressed because his family didn't want to help him. He felt they didn't care about his plight at the previous night's visiting hours. Father McDermott asked him, he says, I wonder if you discussed the idea that your family might get a lawyer for you. He says, they knew I was a prisoner. I told them what I was doing here, about the numbers, the regulations, the hassles.

Father McDermott is like, well, how do you feel now? I have a bad headache. I need a doctor. Then he just breaks down and starts to cry and he starts to just sob big tears big size Priest Collins gives him his handkerchief wipes his tears away. This is grown-ass man Now there can't be all that bad. How long have you been in this place? And they when I says only three days and the priest says I'm sure you do a huge internal eye roll. eye role, you're gonna have to be less emotional. Man, I get it though, I get why he's up so upset though, on some level, I spent one night in jail, after a DUI back in 2010.

Yeah, just not having access to my iPhone for about 10 hours, and they wouldn't let me sleep, it was starting to drive me mad. Out of boredom, I was just so fucking bored. No book, no TV, no phone, no access to anything. It's by myself and a cell with no one to even talk to. This was less than half a day and it was starting to get to me. I was counting the minutes like you get out of there. You know, not having the freedom you're used to

is a terrible thing. I'll never understand reoffenders who keep getting themselves so back in prison. You know, after you've been there for years, wouldn't you do everything you possibly could to make sure you don't go back? I don't know, probably not though, with recidivism rates. I know it's more complicated than I'm laying out there. After checking in with the fake prisoners, the real priest leaves Zimbardo is walking him

out. He asks if he would really contact families as he told the prisoners he would. And the father of the tournament says, yep, of course, and he leaves, and Zimbardo's confused, because he knows that the priest is aware that this is not a real prison. These are not real prisoners, but he's acting as if it is.

After the priest leaves, 819 is put in the hole, the rest are forced to do counts, where they sing their numbers to different tunes now, just for the guards' amusement, they're given many punishments, or told this dude 819 destroying his bedding that morning Zimbardo goes to the hole and finds 819 hunched over into a quivering mass hysterical in the closet He tells 819 that he gets to leave that the study is done for him So he's this another one has been broken another student's been broken in the hole at first 819 refuses to leave saying no

I can't leave I have to go back in there He finally agrees when Zimbardo says listen carefully to me. You're not 819. You are steward. My name is Dr. Zimbardo. I'm a psychologist, not a prison superintendent. This is not a real prison. This is just an experiment. Those guys are just students like you.

So go home steward. Come with me now. Let's go. And after this steward to start sobbing, and he wipes away his tears, straightens up, looks into Zimbardo's eyes. Zimbardo says, looked like a small child waking up for a nightmare.

He's assured, you know, by his parent now, there's no real monsters, everything's okay. And then he finally accepts the truth. And he's like, and then, you know, he sees it's okay. And Zimbardo's like, okay, let's go. So, you know, fourth day and two volunteers have been completely shattered. After 819 leaves, they bring in a backup prisoner,

another one, 416. He arrives just as guard on that is dictating a letter. For the19 leaves, they bring in a backup prisoner, another one, 416. He arrives just as guard on that is dictating a letter for the next visitor's night. He's telling the prisoners what they need to write to their families. He tells them to write, dear mother, I've been having a marvelous time. The food is great and there's always lots of fun and games. The officers have treated me very well.

They are swell guys. You would like the mother, no need to visit, it's seven to heaven. You put, and he goes and put the name there that your mother gave you, whatever that may be. Yours truly your loving son. Oh man, a guard or a net, he takes an immediate disliking

to the new prisoner, 416. So I was gonna have to break him, fresh meat, fresh meat in the prison. Dinner time rolls around, Helman brings in some sausages, 416 refuses to eat, a new prisoner, and he says he's going on a hunger strike.

Does he just got there? He just got there, he's done a bit, why are you hungry? Apparently, he really wanted to do a hunger strike. Helman says, you don't want to eat two stinkin' sausages. You want me to take these sausages and cram them up your ass? Is that what you want?

You want me to take them and cram them up your ass? This is, quote, they throw 416 in the hole. They tell all the other prisoners that until 416 eats the sausages, they're all gonna be punished. This is madness. Visitors night is gonna be canceled until it eats the sausages.

They force the prisoners to talk to the door of the hole and try to convince 416 to eat. They all turn on him. Oh my gosh. As a punishment for 416, and gentlemen, subordination, helmet forces, the prisoners to play leapfrock. Seriously, this isn't some of my silly bullshit. I'm forcing to play a game, but they're having difficulties with the game because their shower

clogs are falling off and their smocks are creeping up to expose their fucking cocking balls and their butts as they jump over the bent bodies of their fellow uh, fake inmates. And I'm sure that's why the guards made him do it. But then it apparently starts to make some of the guards uncomfortable eventually. Helm and simplifies the game by only having two of them play, which is so, so weird to me. He has two two zero nine three and five seven zero four play half naked leap rock. And then he yells at them.

That's the way dogs do it. Isn't it? Isn't that the way dogs do it? He's already ain't he, standing behind you, doggy style, want you make like a dog? Wow, again, that's a quote. Man, if this was not homo erotic before, it is definitely now.

Feel like they've crossed a new line with this. Feels like a borderline sexual abuse at this point. Helmet orders 416 to out of the hole to do pushups. He stands by 416, who's lying on the ground in a pushup position, orders him to do slow push ups. And then he puts his foot on the top of his back. And as he goes down, he just kind of stomps him back into the floor. The others all seem to be surprised at this physical abuse. Yeah, not supposed to do this. After a couple of push ups, this tough guy guard lifts his foot off the prison's back, orders

him back into the hole and locks him back in there. Man, day five, Wednesday, August 18th, 1971. Wednesday morning kicks off with parole board hearings. There's four prisoners up for parole, four, three, two, five, three, four, zero, one, one, one, oh, three, seven, and seven, two, five, eight. They all plead their case as if it's a real hearing. And all of them agree that they would give up their money right now to leave. How insane is that? Five days.

And every single prisoner volunteer agrees that they will forfeit their money right now to leave. How insane is that? Five days and every single prisoner volunteer agrees that they will forfeit the money for the experiment if they can just leave, if they can just be fake released from a fake prison. The board was made up of random secretaries from the department, Christina Mosslatch, was about to start teaching a position at Berkeley and Dayton's in Bardo.

And it was headed by Carlo. He turned into the most authoritative asshole during the hearings and the person he hated the most during his 16 years behind bars. Oh, sorry. So I guess you know, early that one guy talking about St. Quentin, I was wrong. He actually was. There was one person, sorry, that was had actually spent real time in prison. So that makes more sense. Funny to me, if he wasn't though, but okay. So one of these people had actually been in prison actually been involved in this experiment. The rest of the day, uh, five carries on with much of the same.

Humiliating counts, forced punishment for one six is hunger strike. Nothing else, especially, no happens this day. Day six, Thursday, August 18th, 1971, 2.30 AM, counts are done with Billy clubs and whistles. Guard, Sarah, she doesn't need to be, uh, or he decides he needs to be more military, military, militaristic. Uh... the inmates are forced to strip strip their beds uh... sorry strip their beds not strip naked remake them over over this pushes five seven zero four to his breaking point he mouse off the seros is thrown into the hole and he loves to own people in the hole but he takes

a swing and tries to punch the roast after getting out of the hole five seven zero four is chained to his bed, actually chained. The rest of the prisoners are forced to 75 push-ups. 416 says he wants to quit. The other prisoner is telling him, this is not an option. He continues his hunger strike, and I guess he was really skinny when he came just to really skinny dude. And so, he's super, super thin when he shows up for the experiment.

He thinks he's going to collapse after about 12 more hours, and then he's going to have to be taken to the hospital. Prisoner 1-037 is so listless and broken, does Embardo approve his parole? This is three kids now that have been broken. He leaves a study. The other two are not paroled this time. Father McDermott calls prisoner 72518 about getting him a lawyer.

Lawyer, he calls Embardo, agrees to come in the next day and talk to all the prisoners. Jesus, he got a second real lawyer coming in now, talk to fake prisoners about how to get out of a fake prison. It's fake prisoners president completely fractured or all turn on four one six was hunger strike the mad at five seven zero four for the punishments after due you know because he's not cooperating

uh... the last toilet of the day ten p.m. uh... Christina the recent sized social psychology phd grads and bar does uh... this is my slack uh... zimbardo's girlfriend future wife witnesses this part of the experiment for the first time when these when these Students walk past her with bags on their heads. They're chained together and she's fucking horrified It's like, you know, Ivy League Abu Ghahreb, you know, how have we say that in under a week?

She gets in I by the way, I did try to look at the pronunciation on Abu Abu grab whatever and they say it with such an accent. I was just like fucking She gets into the in an argument with Zimbardo Yaf Yafi Banks, their question how she can even be a psychologist, she can't deal with the she eludes with the three of them. What are you doing? What you're doing to these boys is a terrible thing. She storms out and this kind of wakes Zimbardo up. Wakes him up on the strange dream he created for himself.

Passman, he decides he's gonna end the study the next day. She has gotten way out of hand. After the lawyer comes, he's done with the experiment. Final day, Friday, August 20th, 1971, a count starts at 1 a.m., there's only five remaining prisoners, 416, 2093, 5486, 5704, 7258. Helmand lines them up against the wall

to recite their numbers, rules, and songs. No matter how well they do their chores, someone just keeps getting punished. They just keep getting yelled at, cursed at, made to say abusive things to each other, killed like you yell at one prisoner, just like telling me to prick. And then you know, make that prisoner tell it to the next prisoner. They then the sexual harassment that starts to bubble up last night resumes as the testosterone is flowing freely in every direction. He says, see that hole in the ground? Do 25 push-ups.

Fuck that hole. Okay, now pay attention. You three gonna be female camels get over here bend over touch your hands The floor and they do their naked butts are exposed This is not where I'm to wear beneath their smock dresses and then Helmut continues saying now you two you're the male camels stand behind the female camels and hump them Yeah, that that happened Holy shit, there will be lawsuits for that today for the first time in a week the prisoners have been allowed to sleep for nearly six unbroken hours That's the only good thing that's happened to him reason seven o'clock five a.m lawsuits for that today. For the first time in a week, the prisoners have been allowed to sleep for nearly six unbroken hours. That's the only good thing that's happened to them. Seven to five a.m. count lasts only 10 minutes.

After all the fake camel hump and all that stuff, the numbers are called out. Other innocuous rituals are observed. Four, one, six, still not eating. He's put back into his self. He's forced to make love now to his dinner sausages. Force to quote make love to his dinner sausages. Siros orders him to caress them to hug them and to kiss them You know basically like perform flasho on him and he does all that four one six does all that yet

He's refuses to sing it's just eat you won't need a single bite Man the the homo erotic level of this study. It's code red right now I feel good thing they shut this down. I feel like this was like days away from like a fucking rape happening The public defender comes to talk to all the prisoners Give them general advice, treats them as if they were real. It is not acknowledged that he knows 7258, let alone their cousins. Okay, so he's this one student's cousin, he's a lawyer.

7258 loses it. He yells at his cousin defender, he says, you can't go away and leave us here. We want to leave now. We want to leave now with you. We can't stand another week or even weekend. I thought you were going to arrange for me for us to be bailed out please After the defender leaves and Bartow addresses the group I have something important to tell you to please listen carefully. The experiment is over

You are free to leave today and there's no immediate reaction no change of facial expression no change in body language He distenses their confused skeptical and maybe even suspicious like this is just another part of the test. So he continues slowly and clearly, I and the rest of the research staff have decided to terminate the experiment as of this moment. The study is officially over. The Stanford County jail is closed. We thank you all for your important role in this study and then cheers breakout.

Puck and hugs, slaps in the back, wide smiles. Euphoria is, you know, reverberating and Jordan Hall. Next in Bartolful, it was important to make it clear to both the prisoners in the guards that any extreme behavior they displayed was diagnostic of the power of the situation and not diagnostic of any personal pathology within them. They had to be reminded that they all had been chosen

precisely because they were normal and healthy to begin with. Right? They had not brought any kind of personal defects in this prison setting. I don't know, that one, that one helmet seems like he might have brought some shit. The setting had been brought out to the extremes in them, that they'd all witnessed.

Everyone who participated was brought in for extra interviews. They were all talked to for a few hours in the release. They meet back up in a few weeks. They talk it all over again. And that takes us out of this time stock timeline. Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely.

So how much did this less than a week long study fuck these people up? Zimbardo would claim years after his conclusion that there was no lasting damage to anyone who participated in the study, and that he was still in contact with the students. They all went back to their lives as soon as it ended. Sadly, the experiment, while off-and-side is an important study, did not actually bring about any real prisoner form, with a possible exception, not no longer having juveniles in certain places housed with adult prisoners.

Some people say that it had a little bit to do with that reform. So what did the Zimbardo and later researchers really learn from this study? Let's dig into that. After we check in and see what the idiots of the internet have learned first. For today, I found a YouTube video called Simply Stanford Prison Experiment, posted by Joe Taylor, October 29, 2013. Highly recommend watching it actually, it features both an interview with Zimbardo,

years and years after the experiment about what he thought about, you know, the experiment, and it also has some archival footage from the experiment itself, and it's just over eight minutes long. User Etna O'Connor posted posted strange observation after watching this video. She writes, psychology does not have a place in research. Research has become an industry which has caused more harm than good. Uh, what? Do you, do you really believe that?

That's so confused. No psychology research should be done or are you saying that no research in general should be done? Uh, both are stupid. Just trying to figure out how stupid you are. Like, like, sounds like you're kind of saying both. So what? So no more curing diseases? research in general should be done. Both are stupid, just trying to figure out how stupid you are. Like, sounds like you're kind of saying both. So what, so no more curing diseases,

no more tech advancements, is that research bad? No more progress and basically anything, you know, because research is the main way you make progress. That's like saying education is bad. Just, you know, there does more harm to the good, but you probably also believe, because you don't appear to have had a lot of education if you really believe what you posted there.

The following exchange is funny to me. Dumb against dumb. Dumb versus dumb in this corner. Dumb in the other corner. Moa dumb. It's a dumb fight. User Christopher Jarrett posts, all the prisoners that broke down are a bunch of pussy's.

All you who say this is cruel or bleeding heart, heart pussy's too. And then user Al Diablo posts, say that to Satan when you enter the depth of hell. What? Yeah, wow, easy Diablo. Look, I think Christopher sounds like a dummy too, but not sure people can send to hell

for thinking that other people are weak, not sure that happens in any religion. Seems like a bit of an overreaction. It feels like you don't know how to do insults properly. You got to build towards certain insults, right? You're not supposed to immediately tell people they're gonna burn in hell. That's that you work towards that one.

You should probably start with something like, I feel like I have to give you tutorial on how to fucking insult people and then get in argue with people. You start with something like, that's ridiculous dude. You wouldn't be talking so tough if you'd actually been there. And then when they come back with something like, show up the fuck up, put you, what do you know? Then you say something like, you know what? Go fuck yourself, you idiot. And then when they come back with, I'll

fucking kill you and your family. If I see you in real life, bitch, and they sound like that, that's when you say, say that to Satan when you enter depth of hell, which is still weird because of the phrasing in this strange, but at least it feels like it's coming from an emotional place, like a genuine emotional place you gotta get you gotta get you in a role in some kind of insult class. You're not doing it right. User just called me mook he posts a following a few pages down says these kids are soft as hell.

Try pledging a fraternity which I think is kind of funny but you know who doesn't think it's funny. Oh, I'll Diablo. Uh-huh. He's back. He's back in the comments uh... he posted a ploy of holy fuck you are a faggot

jeez this al-diablo we just fucking talked about this way too hot you came in way too hot that's not when you say that you scream that in the middle of a of a giant packed gay bar full of a lot of bears who are really in the leather play and you

scream it right before last call after asking someone to film you and then before you bleed out after a vicious deserved beat down you use your dying words to ask your friend to send me that video so I can play on the show I don't know maybe I'm today's idiot of the internet. Okay, so back to the study. What did Zimbabwe learn from all of this? Well, the experiments results favor situational attribution of behavior over dispossitional attribution, result caused by internal characteristics. It seemed as a situation rather than the individual personality's cause of participants' behavior behavior. If you remember way back, that's the opposite of what he expected.

He thought individual personalities would influence, you know, how they behaved in their roles. And then by the end of the experiment, he felt the opposite was true. Using this interpretation, the results are compatible with those of Stanley Milgram, right? That one I mentioned earlier, where random participants comply with orders to administer seemingly lethal electric shocks to some, you know, shill, some actor. Basically, put in the right situation, people will do things they never thought themselves capable of doing, which does explain how things like the Holocaust can happen, which is why we need to make sure we don't allow certain situations to occur again, because they will, for sure, bring out the worst in humanity.

Right? The experiment has also been used to illustrate cognitive distance theory and the power of authority. In a theory of cognitive distance, it's a 1957, this Leon Fessinger, he proposed that human beings strive for internal psychological consistency in order to mentally function in the real world. A person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable and is motivated to reduce their cognitive dissonance to find as the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change. And this is done by making changes to justify their stress will behavior, either by adding new parts to the cognition causing the psychological distance or by actively avoiding social situations and or

contradictory information likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive distance. In the case of the prison experiment, student guards probably were torn between the moral qualms, and this is my speculation, between the moral qualms they had regarding abusing other students and the perceived expectations of what it meant to be a good prison guard. And they ended up justifying doing horrible things in the name of just doing their job, right? They're just doing their prison guard job. The whole, I'm just following orders, phenomena, right? Even though no one told them to abuse the prisoners like they did, they did because, you know,

that's what they expected. They thought was expected of that role. Was this study ethical to conduct? No, not probably not. But we did gain a lot of insight into human behavior from it. And it is fascinating to me. This kind of stuff was always my favorite thing to study when I was in school.

I hope you found it interesting today as I did. Now let's go over it one more time, with today's top five takeaways. Time, suck, tough, five takeaways. Number one, the Stanford prison experiment was supposed to last two weeks, but it didn't even last one, because even fake incarceration can actually break people down. Another reminder to keep your shit together so you don't end up in real prison. Number two, the fake guards started really physically abusing and degrading the fake prisoners on day one.

On day one, makes you wonder what has gone on real prisons. And time suckers out there have spent time in real prison. If you have some insight for us, you'd like to share any horror stories, you feel comfortable sharing, send them in. Number three, Stanford Psychology professor Philips Embardo turned the basement of Jordan Hall, the headquarters of the Department of Psychology at Stanford University into a fake prison. How fun would it have been to be a psychology professor in 1971?

Uh, sounds kind of awesome. Number four, basically putting the right situation, people do things they never thought themselves morally capable of doing. So be careful when it comes to the situations you put yourself in. Number five, new info. The Stanford Prison Experiment changed the way psychological studies could be done in the US.S. Since the time of the Stanford Experiment, ethical guidelines have been established for experiments involving human subjects. The Stanford Prison Experiment led to the implementation of rules to preclude any harmful treatment of participants before they are implemented.

Human studies must now be reviewed and founded by an institutional review board or ethics committee to be in accordance with ethical guidelines set by the American Psychological Association. These guidelines involve consideration of whether the potential benefit for science outweighs the possible risk for physical and psychological harm. So no more fake prisons. Good thing I never went into experimental psychology. Sounds like it's kind of boring now. Time suck, tough, ride. Take away.

All right. Phillips and Bartos stand for prison. Experiment has been sucked. So much fake prison sucking this week. My fake jaw is fake sore. Stickers. Time suck stickers should be in the store this week. That's what I'm hearing.

Including some new vinyl card decals. May Nimrod bless this important shipment. So hopefully you check the store. Thanks to Harmony Velocamp, Jesse Doberner, Lindsey Thomas, Josh Crel, entire time-soaked team for their help. Huge thanks to new Bojangles Research Team member, longtime time-soaker Heather Ryman. Forgive me some top shelf Stanford research to dive in with today. Next Monday, we go full idiots at the internet

with the Westboro Baptist Church. Those morons who protest everything in the name of God, a god they clearly don't understand. They protested everything from Lady Gaga to military funerals, such as the funeral of marine lands, corporal Matthew Snyder who was killed in Iraq in the line of duty. The picketers peacefully displayed their signs, saying stuff like, thank God for dead soldiers and Fags, Doom, Nations, America is doomed, pre-srate boys, you're going to hell for about 30 minutes before the funeral began at a thousand feet away.

Why are they so dumb and so angry? How do they justify their hate in the name of religion? Join me and mercilessly mocking these anti-suckers next week. I'm gonna go off I'm gonna fucking go off the rails I promise and now let's find out what you suckers have been up to with this week's Time-Sucker updates More gun updates this week so many amazing insights have been pouring in Time-Sucker Angela Bernstein provides today's first one, Angela writes, stop listening to the podcast because of your gun stance.

You mother fucking moron. Stick your hunting rifle up your ignorant ass. Keep pulling the trigger until you blow your dick off. Well, thanks Angela. You bring up a lot of good points. I love when people write in and suddenly I'm able to look at a subject in a whole new way. I'm kidding. That is not what Angela wrote. That is not at all what she wrote. Here's the real message. I'm a little behind, I'll listen to the suck, but I heard your explanation on your rant of gun violence.

I'm a teacher to public school in Texas, just this week because of the park land shooting and other terrorist threats to the school, we are implementing new safety procedures. They are doing random backpack searches and the drugs, guns and alcohol and aspirin dogs will be here every week PS at Bojangles with a dog. We'd never have a problem again. Praise Nimrod. Oh, I love that. You're damn right Angela. Praise Bojangles One-eyed three-legged savior of the suck. Wish we could drop that one-eyed three-legged American crime fighter into our schools straight and shit out

Back to back to your message though. Next year, the students will have to use clear backpacks. Even the elementary school students will have to use the clear backpacks for safety. We also have to have every single door inside the building locked. The outside doors were already locked, but now classroom doors will be locked all times.

They're even building a wall around the school. Can you tell we're from a small town in Texas? Anyway, we just implemented these new policies due to gun violence in schools. Also, there is no way that arming teachers is gonna make me feel safer. Thanks for talking and caring about a space. There's so much, I do love you space,

there's a little extra. I hope that you're nourished, nurtured, and carried by Nimrod's glorious not sack. Thank you, Angela. You know, I am setting Nimrod's sack right now. A climb in from time to time to rejuvenate. It's tricky. I have to shimmy down the piece you have to get in, but it's worth it once you, Angela. You know, I am sitting in Nimrod's sack right now. A climb in from time to time to rejuvenate. It's tricky. I have to shimmy down the P shaft to get in, but it's worth it once you're there. No, but I am doing well.

I would stand up a lot this week, but I'm getting ahead in some episodes so I can have a little vacay this coming week, and I'm ready. I need to rest my mind a bit. Love all the adjustments your school is making, man. Clear backpacks. I think that's a simple, brilliant addition to making school safer and as much as you know i think in moments that army teachers would be would help the problem i i know that's not the answer because teachers don't sign up to be teachers

to serve in protect the firearm there's a reason they wanted to become teachers and not private security guards or police officers uh... but thank you for those insights really really getting to add into this discussion of education and guns is time sucker Tiffany Baining who says oh hi master of suck. I appreciate the recent gun episode I am with you in many of these topics. I am all for owning personal handguns and shotguns I believe they are sufficient for hunting and protecting your family

I stand up for hobby ranges for people who enjoy shooting other types of weapons support local small businesses yada yada yada The only thing I think people are really missing is what many of these kids are really sane. They are tired of our lawmakers, and others saying there's nothing we can do. Yes, there is. We can invest more money in our public schools to hire resource officers and counselors who specialize in youth mental health.

Invest in your teachers. Give them the tools they need to press for student success. Teachers who want to teach are going to inspire students to become better people. These options don't involve banning anything, but does involve money in which probably is probably why law makers ignore them. That smart gun stuff blew my mind.

I had never considered that, but absolutely love that solution. This is such a great solution. I know this is a little scatterbrain, but thanks for all the info from the episode. I learned a lot, and I'm glad you worked hard, not to make this a non biased or to make this. Excuse me, a non biased episode.

Both sides are pros and cons and it is important to see it from both angles. Lesson is an imrod. Both angles in the suck master. This podcast is most excellent. Thanks Tiffany. Thanks Tiffany. God, you guys may feel good. Yes, yes, yes.

Mental health assessment. Counseling for those who need it. Very important comes this issue. You know, I've kind of shit on counting in the past and I stand up a little bit because I did not have the best psychology professors, kind of tainted my view of the entire field. But I'm, you know, as I get older,

I'm fucking softening and I realized, yeah, we gotta get over the stigma of mental health stuff. We gotta give people better screenings and help when they're younger. So, what if we would have caught some of these school shurs at an early age and realized they had some issues that needed to be worked on and got them the help they needed? I mean, I'm not saying this can fix everything,

but I'm definitely gonna help very, very important piece of the puzzle. Next up, Time Soccer Mark Fossbinder with the correction, Mark writes, you cannot buy live 40 millimeter explosive grenades. Your obsession is interesting though. I'm sure you can find one to rent. If you can't, I'll try to point you in the right direction. Damn it.

Ah, all right, Mark, I did more digging because your email. And I realized that live grenades are in fact much harder to obtain, legally than I thought. They're very hard to obtain, very hard to fire once you do obtain them. Ton of paperwork, including notifying the ATF, when and where you're going to use them, and then basically you've got to let them know how it went. Essentially, it appears that they're legal in kind of theory only,

almost, but there's so much red tape you have to cut through. You practically need a lot of degree. Just to have a snowball chance and help, they're actually legally obtaining and firing a highly explosive device out of the under the barrel grenade launcher on your rifle, which I gotta say is probably the best. Probably for the best.

I don't think I personally have the proper psychological makeup to use one. I don't trust myself. I feel like I've had a grenade launcher. I've just gotten the woods. I'll blow up so much shit. Honestly, I would, I would just go, if I, if I had some acreage just to fucking reign terror upon, I would, I would, I would just go, if I, if I had some acreage, just to fucking rain, tear her upon, I would just drop like a hundred grenades into some woodland

setting and just turn it into a post-apocalyptic nightmare landscape. I don't know, I know that's not good. I don't know why that's so awesome to me, but it does. Again, I'm the kind of person, I mean, the punisher, it's my favorite comic book character. So I'm not sure what's going on with my psychology. Thanks for straighting me out on that. Okay, two more next up, Brian, Time Sucker, Casey, who's a little heated by the episode, and I like it. He says, he writes in saying, I normally am pretty even killed when it comes to topics, but couldn't help but get heated when it comes to the gun episode. I know you're trying to state that mass murders are not uncommon without an AR and referenced

the saga mihara stabbing. I feel you skewed this to fit your narrative by leaving out that those that they were murdered while they were sleeping, vastly different than people being slain by metal projectiles while running away. That is a good point, Brian. That is a good point. The crimes are very different. I was looking to a lot of information.

I missed some stuff, including the sleeping parts. I wasn't trying to force a narrative. I was just trying to raise new angles to a lot of information. I missed some stuff, including the sleeping part. I wasn't trying to force the narrative. I was just trying to raise new angles to kick off more discussion. And I do still stand by that part. I was just trying to drive the point home that there's more to the issue than just guns. I mean, because you're right,

guns are far more destructive than knives and much more effective when you're trying to co-lot of people in a short amount of time. Obviously. I just wanted to shift the focus beyond guns and onto the people pulling the trigger. And I do appreciate your views on this subject. I'm glad you got heated.

We need to get heated about this, right? That's how change occurs. People get mad. People get riled up. So thanks, thanks, dude. Thanks, Brian. I appreciate you sending that in. Last one from Time Sucker Jake, Manbeck says, dear Lord, Suckin' Tindan Sucksworth, Esquire,

go you and go Time Sucks, the gun control episode was great, and even though I agreed with your libertarian stance on them from the start, I feel that you did a pretty good job of covering both sides of the debate. I agree that education is extremely important here for voters, but especially for politicians. If you want an example of a senator

who has no idea what he's talking about, look up 30 caliber magazine clip on YouTube. That's a speech from a fucking lawmaker, just as you discover doing your research for the transgender debate, actually taking the time to get to know the subject firsthand can completely change one's mind. I recently took my friend to a firing range for the first time. He is a homosexual Democrat from Pittsburgh, so suffice to say he arrived with his own views on gun enthusiasts. He was not pro. He was completely taken back by the safety culture and professionalism.

Everyone shared at the range. Now he gets super poopy pants whenever he can't go. Anyway, please keep doing what you do. You're not afraid to tackle the difficult issues. I respect the hell out of that. Not a space isn't yet, but that will change shortly. OJ angles to be praised. Good day, Jake. Space Newt. Thanks, Jake. You space, Newt. Love that you showed someone with a proper gun control and respect for firearms looks like totally agree about politicians, man. They need to know that it issues better than anybody. And more than that, they need to properly demonstrate the knowledge and say the right thing to the

public as opposed to the thing that they think will get them the most votes. But because they do have to get votes to get elected that the nature of their position makes them inherently untrustworthy. It's an inherent conflict of interest. Not saying all politicians are bad, I am saying we need to always keep an eye on all of our politicians because of the angle of popularity required to get into their job. You know, we got to keep an eye on them on both sides of the aisle. Otherwise, we've just allowed ourselves to be exploited.

No politicians above criticism. Second guess, you know, Obama, not Trump, not anyone. Thank you for the updates, everybody. Thanks, time suckers. I need a net. We all did. All right, that's all this week. Unless you are a space lizard. If you are, then you got that Detroit swap cast that I did back with James and Jimmy coming up on Thursday. Have a great week. Don't fake arrest anybody. Don't put anybody in a fake prison or fake hole and keep on sucking.

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